e e e e e e e e e e e e all right we will go ahead and call the Tuesday June 18th Commission meeting to order we're going to start with a moment of Silent reflection for our First Responders and members of the Armed Forces that'll be followed by an invocation um by Pastor Joe Moore with the rivers of Living Water Word Ministries followed by the Pledge of Allegiance by commissioner darl lore thank you sorry about that if everybody will please rise for a moment of Silent reflection Heavenly Father we thank you for this fine day that we are coming coming here in your name we ask your blessings to be upon each and every commissioner that is represented here today we ask for your blessings and prayers upon their families and loved ones Lord as we are assembled here today we pray father God that you would Grant the leaders of this community these Commissioners that are here today grant them the wisdom the strength and the knowledge to make good and sound decisions not only for the people of this County but that those that are in this County can take those decisions and live peacefully that they can grow in unity and begin to build and rebuild this County into a place that will represent you and all that you represent in the earth Lord we thank you today um for all things and everything that'll be said said and done on this agenda bless the families that are here that have come out not only to uh be a representation of this County but to make their voices heard in this building today that they will be elal to all of the residents that are not here today by the decisions that will be made we give you all of the praise we give you all of the honor and all of the glory these things we pray in your darling son Jesus name amen join me in the Pledge of Allegiance pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all all right welcome everybody are there any additions or deletions to the agenda Mr Rigby called and he's under the weather he will not be able to be here today to present before the count commission okay okay we look forward to having him reschedule anybody else chair move approval as amended second all right we have a motion and a second all in favor I opposed motion carries and with that we'll move on to proclamations and presentations all right we are going to actually go with the recognition of the UF ifas extension um Indian River County volunteers welcome good morning good morning get all of the troops down here there is a lot of you it's good to see you all in green today that's everyone right okay I wasn't sure if you wanted to say anything well we just wanted to say thank you so much for the opportunity to recognize all of our volunteers today so this is just a small sampling of the 4 uh and Master Gardener volunteers that we have here in Indian River County supporting our UF ifus extension program um they are truly the heart of our program we like to say we have the best Master Gardener in for each Volunteers in the world and we believe that that is wholeheartedly true um they give so much of their time their energy their knowledge their skills their passion to our extension programs and we would not have the amazing program that we have here in the county without them truly they are what allow us to give the reach and impact in our community that we have and they're also the reason why we have so much potential to grow that reach and impact and so we really appreciate the opportunity to um you know have them come here and be recognized for everything they do for our community for our extension programs um they mean so much to us so we appreciate this opportunity to recognize them and and show them how much they mean to us um and just to give you a quick little uh tidbit of information to show how much they do for us last year in 2023 our volunteers contributed 9,149 hours of their time to extension programs through um The Master Gardener program and the 4 program and that is equivalent to $269,000 a little bit more than $269,000 um that they are giving back into our community through all of their time and expertise and so they you know give us a huge uh push both in terms of the support they give us the reach they give us um and they effectively double our staff time with all of those hours and so we again truly could not do it without them and we wanted to just give you a symbol of that uh time and contribution with this large check so we would love to get a picture here in just a moment but I did want to give our volunteers an opportunity um to speak if they had anything to say of course love to hear from the Vol I know some of your volunteers standing here and they are not shy so why don't sh tell us a little bit about what you guys are doing individually as volunteers anybody who wants to speak no pressure I told them they didn't have to okay um hello my name is Heather wuen I am 16 years old and have been in the 4 program for almost 12 years now um throughout my life I have gained so many opportunities that um 4 has made available for me um I wouldn't have the confidence leadership skills and I wouldn't be up here being able to talk to you um now that I am a senior guiding younger members I can see how positively impacted or how 4 has positively impacted their lives as they grow um as the same way it did for me so I just wanted to give a big thank you for all the volunteers that have given their time to make this possible for kids like me Heather Johnny says hi good morning my name is violet crock mney and about 20 years ago I became an employee of Indian River County I started as a receptionist in the extension office and over the years I have been trained in multiple disciplines including Master Garder which has always been a goal of mine and when I retired about two years ago the first thing I did was reup my master Garder certification so that I could continue being being a volunteer over the years I have seen our extension office being able to keep its doors open because of the volunteers when we went through several budget cuts when we went through covid um we were working remotely when we had to without the volunteers this extension office would not be able to give back to the county like we have done so thank you you're welc hello I'm Charlie floro um I just wanted to thank you for the opportunity to serve it's means a lot once you get to retirement that you have something that gives your life real meaning I spend most of my volunteer time with the passions I have which are invasives removal native plants I work the plant clinic at the Sebastian library and we've done a couple of demon demonstration Gardens and like I said it's it's been very meaningful and I'm grateful thank you thank you don't be shy so eight years ago when I retired my name is Lena strumis I got into the Master Gardener program and I think of myself as a cedar I start all the seeds for all the children's Gardens and any of the gardens that we uh do we have a wonderful garden over at gford Community Center and um my passion is vegetables so I do a lot of that work thank you I love that you describe your job as being a cedar that's fantastic I want to be a cedar when I grow up anybody else no well we do appreciate all the volunteer hours I know many of the IAS programs would are very volunteer dependent and finding volunteers and people that are committed to those programs and sharing that message whether it's for H and Youth Development or Master Gardeners or I mean you guys even have steam programs and all sorts of fun stuff going on in the schools and outside so and for the young and old I think that's that's and plus your extension Outreach you know to the farmers in the ad community so we do appreciate it it couldn't happen without the volunteers you guys make this program work and I know um we have one of the most active um extension offic in the state and I'm always very proud of that when when I'm up in Tallahassee and other places where they're talking about it so that's because of you guys and we appreciate it thank you very much of course come on take a picture can we applaud them of course we and you guys can say whatever you want too it's not good work a lot of hard work oh thank you [Music] wow you got a whole line of Paparazzi thank you so much thank you all right all right that was fun our next Proclamation is going to be recognizing juneth it'll be read by commissioner fleser and presented to officer Donald Hart and I think you also brought a contingent with you we have heart so yeah there's a whole heart family here welcome here comes Victor I brought him out of retirement yes come on let's applaud Victor again well thank you uh Madam chair I have the uh distinct pleasure of uh presenting a recognition of juneth not a celebration uh not uh a reminder we don't need a reminder what we need to do is say that the scenario the way of life the way that humans conducted themselves will not happen again so it's a recognition so with that I'd like to present the proclamation recognizing June 19 as juneth whereas Abraham Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation a presidential Proclamation and executive order on January 1st 1863 changing the legal status of more than 3.5 enslaved African Americans whereas on June 19 19th 1865 General Gordon grer arrived at galison Texas to read the Emancipation Proclamation announcing the freedom of all those enslaved in the state whereas juneth derived from the combination of the month and the day of June 19th offord is referred to as Freedom Day Jubilee Day emancipation day Independence Day or black Independence day and whereas in 1979 Texas became the first state to make juneth an official holiday and other states following Su to the over the years whereas emancipation day is celebrated at different times throughout the United States because of the time that it took for the union to generals to reach the southern states after the war had ended and where as general Edward mcook first read the Emancipation Proclamation in Tallahassee Florida on May 20th 1865 11 days after the end of the Civil War and two years after the Proclamation was first issued by President Abraham Lincoln freeing those enslaved in the southern states whereas in 1997 Florida recognized May 20th as a Statewide C celebration of emancipation now therefore be proclaimed by the board of County commissioners of Indie River County Florida that the board recognizes June 19th as juneth honoring the end of slavery in the United States and further proclaims May 20th as emancipation day of Florida in in River County making the anniversary of when slavery began became and illegal in the state of Florida now therefore it's duly adopted this 18th day of June 2024 signed by all five County Commissioners thank you and that's something that we wanted to make sure we uh put in the records where it's showing that emancipation really happened and then in May May 20th uh that they stood on the steps of T Hass and read to the St of Florida letting them know so that way we understand here in Florida that is May 20th and juneth is the national one that was recognized thank you so much for that thank you you thank you Victor daddy God bless you and all the work that you did um uh commissioner Fletcher say thank you thanks for being here he's 93 years old now God bless you can we take a picture can we get a picture you going to go and take a picture he coming down there Don come yeah celebration yeah recognition than for here [Music] Madam chair yes go ahead if I may I just want to remind everyone that uh in honor of juneth Victor Hart Park will be in full Bloom this Saturday with a celebration from 10: to 3: reading of proclamations music and U booths for your um perusing pleasure and please join us out there 10 to3 at Victor har Community enhancement complex fantastic that sounds like a good time all right um there are two informational items uh this one of them is is the solid waste disposal District closures and collection service changes for July 4th so everybody look that up so you know when to take your stuff out to the curb um and then we have a proclamation designating the month of July 2024 as Parks and Recreation month and July 19th 2024 as Parks and Recreation Professionals Day so please thank your Parks work ERS and uh all the people that are keeping that going we have a great parks department and we appreciate all that they do with that we'll move on to consent Commissioners I would like to pull 8h for discussion is anybody else like to pull anything from consent anybody from the public wishing to pull anything from consent mam chair move approval as amended all right I have a motion and I'll second that all in favor opposed motion carries so Commissioners I just pulled 8h because I understand we need to have a discussion on Quorum um I understand there's some concerns about that uh yes Commissioners uh we have revised the um environmental lands program guide and my apologies it should have been included with this agenda item however uh when we revised the guide uh the change was made uh based on recommendations from uh the environmental land acquisition panel to reduce the Quorum uh to six and of course uh we're happy to have any discussion or uh recommendations from the board on the Quorum the issue has been that with a seven uh which was the original uh quorum established with seven uh is we're having difficulties meet meeting that Quorum in order to conduct business uh at these meetings which are right now occurring on a monthly basis and there's nine people on the panel that's correct so six is still a majority for the most part SE did you that's please pardon my voice today that's that's accurate um so it's been an issue trying to get Quorum um so that's kind of what it came from was Quorum there is a resolution attached here to per code we need to have a resolution adopted to adopt any sort of panel since this panel was dissolved back when it was Sun I think it was elac back in the day was sunsetted so we need a new resolution adopting and setting forth the rules and regulations for the elap so that is attached here today thank you and I have no problem with the Quorum change I just wanted to make sure that everybody knew that and was aware of that so it didn't cause any surprises in the future okay we have this challenge with uh other committees as well and the complications of life the way it is and commitments and not being able to be at a meeting at a certain time uh really sets sets back uh a lot of great action and staff time that that was worked and then has to be delayed again another month or two um and reducing the number actually is uh a majority plus one and and I believe that still holds uh great intent for the the citizens in which we serve as well so with that motion to approve I'll second that all right any further discussion all in favor opposed motion carries thank you all right so that takes us through the consent and we'll move on to constitutional officers Leslie welcome good morning thank you for having me today um I'm here to request the revenue that we receive from verifying candidate petitions initiative petitions and data lists rolled over into our Uh current budget um we verified 27,600 in revenue and what we want to use this M for is you all kindly um allow us to use the truck that you acquired when you um purchased the land from Mike's uh cut ratee Furniture so we have the truck we're using it to deliver our elections equipment and we would like to put a wrap on it because it looks not too official when we're delivering furniture that says um voting equipment that says Mike's Cut Rate Furniture so that's what we're asking for the W I can't imagine Leslie it's it's near it is actually comical see I yes we've had lots of questions when people have driven through the parking lot what is that truck for I think it's very reasonable to ask for a wrap to address that issue all right we have a motion by commissioner lore with a second by commissioner fleser any further discussion seeing none all in favor opposed motion carries thank you or most appreciative I ju I would just like to thank you for being present last night at the taxpayer Sheriff's debate um attempting to register people to vote were there our pleas coming and the going of it so thank you for that you're most welcome tenacity is appreciated thank you all right next item is a public notice item it's correct morning Madam chair bill debr on behalf of the county attorney's office uh this is a property Exchange pursuant to Florida Statutes 125.30 public notice has to be given via advertisement in the newspaper once a week at least two weeks uh before the proposed exchange this is going to be an even up exchange of RightWay along 74th Avenue um as you can see in your backup there's some right of way that was dedicated back in 1956 that is kind of floating uh in the property owner's property what we're going to do is swap that out for the RightWay next to the canal and where 74th Avenue is located so that we can get everything straightened out um that will be coming up to you on July 2nd at a uh matter held by the county attorney's office and I thank you all right thank you with that we'll move on to County administrators matters first item is approval of the am 204. 2 at will policy amendment to am 22.1 termination amendment to am 81.1 behavior of employees amendment to Am 84.1 customer service and amendment to am 8071 disciplinary process Mr administrator welcome so Madam chair members of the board could I take first first take a moment before we do this to introduce uh yesterday our County Administration on budsman started and I'd like to take the opportunity to introduce Amber Riv and uh you can come on up Amber we're gonna make you give a 10 minute speech but so just by way of introduction Amber comes to us with ample County experience having worked for Orange County Mii Dade from Mii Dade she did strategic planning and business plannings for individual departments uh she's also worked for bal Harbor as a CFO she's a former administrator and and lastly she worked uh at St Lucy County in Innovation and performance as a navigator so uh we are very excited Amber does have a master's degree in urban Regional planning has worked also privately as a consultant helping so she understands processes understands the development process and so uh she already has an email that was sent last week in her inbox with a couple things and on what she'll be working on so I want to just introduce Amber and welcome her to the senior leadership team we're excited she's here welcome Amber it's good to have you good morning thank you so much I very pleased to be here and I'm very happy to serve Indian River County thank you so much well welcome aboard we've been anxiously awaiting that position um so we're glad you're here and I'm sure your list will get longer I will continue to add to the list for sure and tenaciously move through it thank you so much wonderful thank you welcome aboard thank you for that Indulgence so this item is the at will employment policy and I have in bolded the primary portion of the policy but it's generally speaking uh the policy is going to affect it's it's directed towards those employees hold executive managerial or critical positions that support the board of County Commissioners uh in terms of that uh that are designated at will those positions would be the deputy assistant County Administrator the uh Department directors assistant directors uh division heads managers or positions with managerial Authority if you will or responsibilities directing employees or managing managing a program as well as our commission assistants who provide vital support to all of the uh each of you as the commissioner uh commissioners so uh the policy was revised and I'm just going to just to highlight some of that and it was based on some concerns expressed we wanted to make sure that it was reflective and had a little bit of a process in there for people uh so prior to an initiating manager or director obtaining you know uh implementing this policy they must obtain the Human Resources Director and the county administrator's approval uh if approved an employee who receives notice of Separation they would be placed on administrative leave with three days pay uh three days administrative lead pay during those time uh the employee could request a hearing a meeting before the County Administrator uh prior to the date of separation and that would give them if they have a well listen I understand that the County Administrator signed this but I haven't met with the person him or her and so I would like that opportunity to meet and give my my side of the story if you will if the employee requests the meeting the employee would remain on administrative leave with pay uh until until the meeting scheduled which would occur within 5 days and a decision is made by the County Administrator that decision of course is final and binding don't I did that so just want to rough kind of review some of the policy and some of the employee notification that occurred uh roughly this affects 90 positions uh that are we currently have an employee in those positions there are some positions such as you know Amber uh the County Administration by budsman the Natural Resources Director the assistant County Administrator they were already hired at will and as like when we knew we've extended an offer to the public works new Public Works director when that person comes board they would also be at will so they would there's some positions that that will be it's in addition to more than the 90 but it's just roughly 90 but it's just these are 90 about 87 employees that are affected uh we did I mentioned uh clarify the process uh based on some Fe feedback from employees as with some that met before as well what I would say is we we did distribute the policy to everyone that's affected and the revision and then we also held two Microsoft team meetings uh at one at 10 one at two last Wednesday and a total of 62 uh unduplicated so because some attended both but uh employee meetings and answered any questions that they may have had uh we also initially we we worked with the county labor attorney uh and they provided their opinion and then with the revision and based on an expressed concern we went ahead and sought the County labor attorney's review of the revision uh I provided each of you that and uh but it's it was found legally sufficient and not in violation of any federal and state employment law and then there's some other proposed policies with this two of them are related to be consistent with the uh incorporation of the separation under at uh at will employment that would be the first one am 2121 termination and then the last one under am 87.1 disciplinary process the two in you know 81.1 in the second bullet is about behaviors of employees the intent there as you've read it's you have a strike through version of that it really emphasizes you know you know that we serve the public essentially that we are public servs and then it also amend and deletes provisions of conducts for which an employee is subject to disciplinary action uh 84.1 again focusing on the fact that we serve the public and the public service is customer service we strengthened and enhanced our customer service policy to where it said encouraged we kind of put responsibility and we added some other words in there but to clearly Define that we are customer service oriented organization so why you know one I would I would tell you because this is a question that's been asked is this is consistent with other agencies and local governments with the state of Florida within our own County and within the Treasure Coast uh that will employment is a common practice and policy it happens to be state law uh it's consistent with our adopted strategic plan goals related to governance if you recall one of the priorities in that process was to start updating our Antiquated policies this policy goes back to 2010 and 11 it's Unique uh I will tell you that I believe we took a measured approach on this in terms of holding it to the admin to those that manage people or programs and higher plus the commissioner assistance and the assistant to the County Administrator if you look at what the state did they went down even lower and we didn't do that we felt it was appropriate these are the 90 Plus or people that will help direct or organization consistent with the direction that you provide in terms of making sure that we're all in the same ship in the same rowing in the same direction we're on the bus we're going in the right direction and we're not having issues so toward that end what it really does is it defines the employee and employer relationship at the end it's a mutually beneficial relationship uh it promotes the public interest again we serve the public if the public articulates concerns to you and you set a policy then it's our job as Administration and our management team to move in that direction uh so I I believe it promotes responsiveness and accountability and essentially it ensures critical positions or staff with individuals who are aligned with the County's missions and values and are working in support and the direction of the board of County Commissioners and County Administration additionally one of the things that it does do is it opens up because absent having being at will you have limitations in terms of you know if you both determine is no longer mut beneficial is it opens up to where you could provide up to 20 weeks of severance pay so a couple of common myths about atwi employment that there's no protection for employees this proposed policy in no way negates change supersedes any federal or state laws protecting employees it is illegal to you know to Fire and based on any protected class such as race color National or national origin disability age gender religion manal status medical condition or sexual orientation doesn't change that it's illegal to fire an employee who takes time off under the Family Medical Leave Act fils the worker's compensation claim or serves inur takes jury duty it's also and this I think it's important it's illegal to fire an employee for for the purposes of retaliation in terms of if they were a whistleblower reporting an employes employer fraud waste or abuse corruption wrongdoing uh illegal or unth ethical activity it's illegal to fire an employee for retaliation that report on safe working condition object object to or refuse to participate in activities that violate a law or regulation somebody that might testify or provide information to a government agent who's maybe holding a hearing or investigating you know the county or disclosing or threatening to disclose information about activities or policies that violate law or for somebody just asserting their their basic legal rights so with that you know staff's recommendation is that you approve the policies as presented uh I do think in the end uh at the end of the day it's a vital tool to ensure we have the right team on the field uh more pointedly to ensure critical positions in the county as I mentioned before our staff with individuals who are aligned with where we're going as a county and moving in that direction and they're consistent with the mission the values the visions and support of you know the board and the terms of its direction as well so uh I'll return to the board uh with the recommendation that you approve these these policies all right thank you Commissioners questions yes commissioner FL I just wanted to say that uh I I appreciate the explanation because as the concept of at will comes to play in the arena it is often misconstrued with at risk and that's the Mantra um I I will say it's not the case you brought up 2011 2010 uh I don't think any of my colleagues were here uh I do recall that conversation and it refers back to a time when the commissioner assistants were um at will I will tell you that there was more cohesion there was more communication there was more reliancy it was organizationally sound and there were other positions like that in an attempt to make things uh consistent across the board because we have other entities were're dealing with uh it was brought up that we would give uh go back to the employment rights foundation and well I could say that it appeared that it did grossly affect the day-to-day operations and um I I believe that you believe exactly what you're rolling out and organizationally I believe it is sound we were there once before and throughout the years there has been certain agreements or contracts or un memorandums uh when employment took place which placed us back into the employment rights category and out of the at will which is consistent with all other just about all other counties um I know when we go to uh conference uh people think that this is an odd place that our assistants are not at will and and the management team is not at will so uh I uh fully uh support the recommendation and your request uh but I'm sure that others want to speak other comments Commissioners Comm lore yes and good morning again County Administrator so let me think of the process for a moment um department heads have a conversation with an at risk employ at will employee and the the predetermination hearing if any would be held by them or would advance to you so essentially I mean so I I I think there's a differentiation between performance and then this just notion the philosophy The View where the organization's going if you're not if you're not in line with that then I mean you could be doing you could be performing but you you could be creating problems you could be create becoming a NE you create a negative work environment which affects and I'll use the example of of a rowo if we have everybody in a robo you have somebody up front and somebody up back rowing in opposite directions we're we're never going to land this the boat where we need to so what would happen is the manager or the department head would have a conversation say Hey listen here's where we're going this is the policy that was adopted this is where you know you need to support this and if you're fundamentally opposed to that for whatever reason then we need to have a bigger conversation and if that Contin use then they would they would go to HR Human Resources would evaluate well is this a performance issue or is this an issue that you know because this isn't designed to circumvent the performance issue you know we have policies there and we will hold everybody accountable the manage management team for enforcing those policies but if if it's not that case then Human Resources must sign off on it and then they would come to me you know with the department head say hey this is the issue I have the the human resources I agree and then I would make I would sign off and then they would get a notice of Separation that would put them uh being separated essentially 4 days later for working days but they'd have three days of administrative leave with pay and they would have to notify us prior to the date of the separation that they want a meeting with me to say Hey listen there's other information that I don't think that was presented to you and you need to know this and that gives me the opportunity to one hear their concerns hear their side and and then investigate and they would stay on administrative Le with pay until that hearing and then also me evaluating and understanding and then making fi rendering a final decision right so typically it's either a performance issue or a discipline issue is that correct generally speaking right so uh department heads are going to have to communicate document coach counsel discipline dismiss or suggest dismissal uh so there's got to be something enacted to where our leadership teams realize that before it gets to that we're talking something serious here obviously uh secondly the the message has to get out that the the at will is not a scary word uh in fact it's not a scary word it's typical I mean if you worked in the private sector if you worked in Vero Sebastian bravard St Lucy that that's IAL let me ask you this um it also excludes anyone represented by collective bargaining that is correct right and they have other mechanisms that's correct and within their Collective bargain agreement there's a there's set out Provisions related to discipline just cause and things of that nature right and for the other Commissioners this is consistent when we hired John and interviewed John about customer service not to mention the Strategic plan and the surveys that have already been mentioned one thing I want to ask about how do we ease uh our at will employees as we transition in the fact that uh are there other benefits because let's be honest this does kind of change the tener of their employment uh I understand the up to to was it 20 days or 20 weeks 20 weeks 20 weeks is is that typical for any other employee well that that statutory provision only Pro applies to if you have if you are at will absent that we've been able I think two occasions you know it was six weeks right and are there any other potential future um benefits for atwi employees in the future uh not that I'm aware of but I would say organizationally what and I this your question about benefits because one one of the concerns was well this affects my benefits it doesn't affect anybody's benefits as you all know we had like today you passed the under the consent the rate increases or actually there was no rate increases for the employer or the employee we don't differentiate that would cause an administrative burden when it comes to the the benefits but what I would say is as a board you are investing not just in our management team but in all our employees we expanded benefits last year in terms of providing Vision medical uh long-term disability uh we opened the health center last meeting you just expanded the the services that are going to be offered at the health service center and we also have a compensation study so I would say that you're investing in all the employees and that investment especially when it comes to the management team from myself all the way down to those that manage people or program should be held accountable because you are investing in the employees to make sure we have the right employees here and that people that are going to and you know staff members team members that are going to do the right thing and follow the direction that the board you know and which you're getting from the community that the community want us to go so there's no specialized benefits for that are being created other than the ability for that severance pay right well I I wouldn't include the things like the health clinic and other things because that was you know collectively for all the employees whether they're you know at will or not so so the message to the the potential out willll employees should be to understand that um their immediate supervisors or their department heads whomever will go through the process that they should be going through already coach counsel discipline dismiss before it comes to before it even gets close to your desk uh and that way they would have the opportunity to uh either get on the bus or get off the bus prior to uh and there's also part of the policy that talks about if they if they uh voluntarily separate that's one of the because right now if if you do that if you don't provide since it's an atwi relationship mutually beneficial for both parties uh if somebody doesn't provide notice they could lose payouts for certain benefits now with this you could say this I can't agree with this I I just don't I don't like this policy I think you know the board and administration's heading in the wrong direction and well I got to stay here three weeks in order do I get paid out you know so like this so This removes that from them so that there's one incentive one benefit it's because it's mutually beneficial so they they don't have they they are excluded from the notice requirements if they decide to resign on their own because they don't think it's it's no longer a good fit for them right and also in additionally if they uh aren't comfortable with being at will could they potentially um laterally move or downwardly move into a different position that is not if if there is a position that is available we will certainly you know look at that if they apply for it and I also would say as long as their performance and discipline is yeah correct but I I would say you know the power of this rests with the employee or our team members you have control over whether or not this would ever even come into play in terms of are you doing what the board as a as a whole has said this is where we're going or County admin says Administration says we're doing this we're having this initiative but if you're going to sit in the back and you're going to cause problems or I use the bus analogy for me Jim Collins if you're on the bus and you're in the wrong seat or your seat's turned and you're the other person's turned and you're interfering then it's like listen you got to get this way turn that way so it's like it's a matter of holding yourself accountable to make sure recognizing as a public servant you know we're yes I get it we're going and I don't I think it's it probably wasn't stated well but the currently have a property right if you think about that a property right to the job and again measured approach management team and hire not the entire organizations which would be I would say most other organizations in the State of Florida and in in the Southeast region I think atw employment is predominant throughout the the country understood and in your in your cursory interviews with uh with the affected employees I believe it was you and assistant zto uh about how many of those employees did you chat with uh discuss any questions concerns that were egregious that they may have brought out in other words is there is their fright in the air so I I think you know initially some of the com I had did have one two three meetings with different employees I also had some directors come to me I had one director come to me and they said listen these here here's two employees that I'm not sure if they apply to this the criteria that they manage you know I don't think they apply so what we did is we went we got the job descriptions we evaluated them we say and I said you know you're right this one doesn't apply regardless of their title because when I look at the core functions of the job they don't bear any responsibility in terms of coordinating a program that could you know they have a decision-making Authority that could impact the county of where we're going and then the other position it did and then I had one director bring to me you know an employee said I think they should be pulled the job description looked at it and I said no they should not be it so there was that and then I'm going to go to try to go to some of those comments because I do there the comments but I think most of them were really you know why now the the conversation regarding Severance uh the perception that there was a hit list that everybody that received the email was on The Hit List and that's that was the perception and that's why we built in the Visions to show that it emanates from the Department you know in terms of that they because they're closest to the employee they know whether not the employees rowing in the right direction or is on the bus moving in the right direction um benefit changes you know they talked one of you somebody brought up private sector about Oh Hey listen you this is going to you this is going to now our benefit changes could they could change our benefits you know and that's largely happens in the private sector not in the public sector uh the retroactivity you know the fact that the due process so we again amended to build in a revised process at least because I would say this um and I'll come back to that but the severance the no benefit then the his the history of it so when we revised it we sought the subsequent opinion of the attorney again our labor attorney of 20 plus years and their comments were that if anything we revised it to be even more from from his original opinion that it was legally sufficient was that we you know revised it to be even more employee friendly in terms of you know to the benefit of the employee I think it's up on my desk his opinion but I think I provided each of you so he found it completely legally sufficient it was there was a process there by what all the employees were acknowledged they they received the the initial policy they received the revised policy uh they're able to and some may be here to talk today and what I would say is we took into account that consideration that that the County Administration was just going to kind of have meetings and like okay it's not working out it I mean it's no it's coming from the department head the manager up except for the Department directors that they report to me right I understand so back to the question what percentage of the of the employees that we've chatted with less than 10% had had some concerns uh well th those six concerns out of the yeah I would say so but they were they were probably Universal they may have been universally that I would I wouldn't say that they were the only ones those were ones that spoke up you know we emphasized it was safe but in 62 I think it was unduplicated that attended we had some people that decline I happen to ask one like I've always worked at will I understand what at will is had somebody that didn't work at at will and said I get it I work for government you know if I'm not doing the job that you want or going do you know believe in the policies or the procedures and where we're going then I'm not the right fit Madam chair one last question in your training and and experience through the years do you do you see or will have you seen any hesitation of employees not at will not wanting to promote through the agency uh because you know let's say they're a rockstar employee uh because they don't want to be recl reclassified into at will I I would say no if you're a rockstar employee you have no concerns you're a rockstar employee why would you it's usually to the contrary somebody that they meet their qualifications but it's just like you know I mean I I'll just that that's been my experience you know and and finally so the board knows and they probably do most of the recent hires have understood that upon applying for the job uh and the future ones obviously will which probably should have been changed several years ago yes I I've been very open and honest with you from day one that I was surprised at the policy in terms of the applying 14th amendment constitutional protection and and property rights to job a job I mean I just in the State of Florida but Southeast region and largely across the United States right and and for the record for any rumors that are out uh is my final question Madam chair uh three this didn't originate with a singular commissioner no no this is you the person talking is the one that reviewed the policies and has been reviewing administrative policies and I said this is not as we tried to change the organization and move the direction this is a tool if we have somebody that you know because otherwise you you are Expediting what could be a long arduous process where that you play the game you get back in line and then you kind of stop then you go start reverting back to your bad your former behaviors in terms of like frustrating the process frustrating the direction of where we're going and uh so I don't think I think it's a tool it's it's it's a tool and again every employee has the power of whether or not this applies to them ju no different than I do there anybody else you know the county attorney attorney the deputy County attorney the deputy County Administrator the assistant County Administrator we have a We're All Pro these are not like line line level people these are managers and above these are professionals and so it would apply to them yes okay thank you all right Madam chair yes just one other thing I'm I'm glad that uh the sheriff brought that last item up because I recall the consultant the the face the expression that we were not at will and in addition we've operated this other policy for over a dozen years yeah yeah it's it's been quite quite a long time well two 2011 um so over a dozen years and uh I I think that was the comment and it was brought up by the consultant uh actually you had discussed it discussed it uh openly with all of us as well uh that they were quite surprised I did bring up that when we go to conferencing that we we're we were one of the very few if not the sole um operators uh under the that other policy again it was suggested that policy was actually suggested by a commissioner who's no longer here and uh I guess it was sense that it was a good way to operate but that was that was done many many years ago I just wanted but thank you for bringing that up okay thank you commissioner irman thank you madam chairman um I'm glad to see us moving forward in this direction I think it I think it needs to be defined I think everybody's role needs to be def find what their responsibilities are what they're not Florida obviously is an atwi state so that is there already I I look at this like a like a a sports analogy you know you know I love my sports and I I look at this as like we are the uh team owner with the with the rest of the citizens of an River County we are there to carry out the mission and you're the head coach of the team and you need everybody to be on the same Playbook playing by the same playing the same way moving in the same direction whatever play you call they need to execute I think that's I think that's extremely important that we do this because I know that that I have and I'm all my fellow Commissioners we've all made customer service as you mentioned earlier a number one priority for this County to move forward with quality customer service and and and get out of the the days of old and and and move forward and move ahead with new invigorating and inventive and in inventive ideas sometimes you are going to get somebody that does disagree with ideas but this is the opportunity for them to shine to come back to you as the administrator say Mr kanich this is why I don't agree with this and let you say but yet still stay on board should the decision of that you make and the board makes moves ahead it's okay to disagree in a professional way but if somebody is not on board with the mission of what we said and what you're you've been assigned to carry out and what you want to and what you want them to carry out I do not want them on my team because it's team first it's not about me me I I and that's where we that's where we uh that's what we need and that's what we that's who we need in here I think you're assembling a great team I think everybody is I think everybody will be on board and I think they should be on board I've been on the other side of it on the collective bargaining thing where where U you know people are protected by that with a collective bargain I've seen faults in that too uh to save an employee that wasn't shouldn't have been saved I've seen that happen too so I think that uh this is a good policy I think it's it's very clean I think you've taken the time and energy to to look at it and evaluate it along with your staff I I think we're um I think we're in the right place and again I would agree with you Sor if anybody's a rock star or you're a good employee I don't think you have anything to worry about and that and being an at will employee and I don't believe it's could be considered an at risk it's what in any business in the State of Florida or anything that you do you'd be you can be in that will employes so I appreciate your effort I appreciate your staff's effort and all the other folks that that moved ahead with this but I I do I do support this and it can always be changed and tweaked if it needs to be at a point in time so um that's where I stand Madam chairman I'm I'm fully support this thank you commissioner Moss yes thank you I think um this is long overdue and thank you for for taking the time and the effort right now to make sure that we've addressed it as fully as you have um the focus is on customer service I think this will go a long way toward ensuring that everyone is as you said earlier rowing in the same direction I think uh we need to do that and it's also fair to all parties uh to to the employee and to the public uh to the community uh that we serve and that's that's the goal for everyone every single person here so um with that being said I'll move to approve this uh I'm going to read the whole thing approval of am 202.4 at will employment policy amendment to am 22.1 termination amendment to am 81.1 behavior of employees amendment to Am 84.1 customer service an amendment to am 87.1 disciplinary process thank you I have a motion and a second and then I just want to say a few things um I agree with everything that that's already been said and what I how I look at this is coming from the hospitality industry and I know commissioner flesher has experience in that industry as well but ultimately government is a part of the hospitality industry we are providing a service to the residents who are our customers unfortunately unlike the restaurant or the hotel business the customer has no choice but to come and pro take advantage of the services that we offer there are no other places to go for some of these if you do not have somebody on your team that is providing the service the same way consistent consistently across the board that's expected by the policy makers which is the Commissioners then you are never going to get your hospitality business where you need it to be it takes if there's a direction at the restaurant if there's a certain attitude the a way that I would like a server to take an order or interact with a customer and they are taking that order they're putting it in it's going into the kitchen but they are not interacting the way I want them to represent me as a business owner and you have customers coming in that say I don't want to sit in that person's section not because I don't like your restaurant but because I don't like the way that they serve me that's a problem and in government people don't have the luxury of not requesting to deal with certain people or position it's the same in the kitchen if I have somebody who can cook a burger to temperature awesome but if they're not plating it and and seasoning it the way that I've put the policies in place and the procedures in place and I have people that come in and say who's cooking in the kitchen tonight because that determines what they're going to order off of my menu that's a problem that's a major problem that is a problem with consistency and that's a problem with messaging and that's a problem with with the service that my employees are providing so we have to those that might be concerned I understand that this is a change and change always brings up concerns and usually those concerns go to worst case scenarios but we have disciplinary processes in place we have other policies that deal with people not doing the nuts and bolts of their jobs and there's processes in place for that this policy is really in my opinion meant to give the tools to address the issues of attitude the issues of culture the issues of undermining policies that this board has put in place and expectations that we have asked people to get on board with performing we want you to treat the the customer our residents a certain way we want you to administer this program um with a yes attitude versus a no attitude or whatever the case may be and this policy gives the tools to address that um if you are on board with the direction that the county is going and that the policy makers have have put in place you will have absolutely no problem this is not anything you should be concerned about but if you're not then that's a problem not only for the organization and the policy makers and the direction we're trying to go in but that will become a problem for for that person so I agree with everything that you guys have said I think this is long overdue and I think that the other policy changes that are also included um in this item are are in line and this gives us the tools necessary to kind of go in the direction that we'd like to go so with that I will um open it up yes if I may of course um couple of things if you read the the administrative manual the term vested right due process 14th Amendment property rights those are very strong words and in wrongful termination cases they're very fact specific they depend on the who what where wise type of ideas so it's difficult to come across with a blanket opinion on something like this but here what is happening is that we are taking a right away from 90 employees the right to Progressive discipline that's one fact there is no compensation that is being made for taking that right away have we done this before another fact specific thing yes back in 2011 I believe it was the board did not like the idea of employees retiring with huge amounts of annual leave so they changed the policy and procedure manual to cap it at 30 days but what they did more importantly is that they grandfathered those employees hired before 2011 when that policy was enacted so they would be able to go out with their full vested right of annual leave banked up um you know those are the two things that would give me concern If This Were to be challenged by the group um especially that strong language that exists that that right is being taken away thank you um for those comments and I think um I appreciate them um I feel like the board gave this policy and the board's job is to create and change policy um we do have a letter from the employment attorney and if somebody wants to challenge it that's always their right irregardless of if it's if it's legally sufficient or not I mean people do that all the time and I I I personally have no concerns but I do appreciate the raising that issue it's something to think about for discussion thank you Suzanne yes Human Resources Director Suzanne Bole um I was just uh wanting to make sure that we provided our employees who might be present here yeah the opportunity I'm going to open it up for everybody but I always need somebody to keep me on track for sure thank you so much um um all right with that I'll open it to the public anybody from the public that wishes to speak on this item please come to the podium and state your name and address for the record Susan prto and because of guardan at Lim um exception I would request not to State my address on the record but I am an actual citizen of this County born and raised and still to this day so I just have two really just a couple really quick things I currently am at will so I understand what that means I understand it can be like a scary word I'm at will I've been at will I will be at will for a very long time so that's not a concern as far as changing the at will my concern was when I reviewed this it appeared that the staff agenda item said that it was specifically to be at will but there are other several areas in the policy that are being changed not specifically at will um there's a couple of different things in here that I just wanted to point out that I thought were um since they were not brought up and other words this policy changes the rest of it will affect more than just the atwi employees so to say that it only affects the 90 is inaccurate because the other policies are applicable to all other employees myself included because my contract only excludes me from 807 so I will be asking to renegotiate my contract based on some of these changes so um with that being said if we look at number 8011 um subc being in subordinate or By willfully ignoring disobeying or refusing to follow direction from a manager or supervisor of the county concerning a job related matter totally agree you should not have an insubordinate employee I can tell you some of the concerns that I have heard over the time from staff coming to me with questions on things being legal or illegal and as a person who holds a license and who has to sit there and respond for my license as well as other employees that hold licenses here in the county such as Engineers have a concern if a supervisor is telling them to sign something that they believe is not legally sufficient or is illegal or something that is not sufficient to engineering standards they could be facing backlash with their license so if they would be facing backlash here as well so I would just ask if it could be considered if something could be put in there so long as it's not deemed illegal or an infraction of I think there's another policy that deals with that issue that you've raised that we talked about earlier so I understand the concern but there's other polic this none of these policies stand alone as you know they correct they they are referenced and referenced cross referenced across the board and there is another policy that deals with um that type of being asked to do something illegal it's a matter of federal and state employment law that you can't fire an employee for retaliation because they have been they object to or refuse to participate in AC activities that violate law regulation yeah but I appreciate you bringing that up a malfeasance or a misfeasance that's not to say that the license was of a protection the license is the knowledge and the ability to do what has to be done so I I I just I just want to make sure I don't know if I agree with that because they're protected this section would apply to me as well with any new supervisor that come in so I just wanted to at least state that um secondly if you look at what was crossed out as subc it's possessing firearms and other weapons on County property um so that was crossed out that's now allowing employees whoever to bring Firearms I just if that's crossed out um if you're wanting to allow them to bring firearms and weapons onto the facilities I think if we could just reference to the Florida statute where it talks about it can't be during meetings um because that is it specifically says it can't be during County meetings I just want to make sure we're following that this policy emanated from the fact that the state changed the laws and the county cannot adopt the policy they never updated the policy to where you can restrict an employees right I mean with this policy right now I'll tell you right now I'm in violation because I have my my concealed carry weapon you know locked in my car and anybody else that has that exercises their Second Amendment right uh it is a state law that you cannot carry weapon into a meeting of a governing body it's already covered by state law okay that's fine you okay and those were the only two things that I just have a concern just want to touch on the insubordination that is merely clarifying the definition because we have had instances where people have like well I'm not sure that's what it means so that's all it does it clarifies and if we're really dealing with an issue about splitting hairs on insubordination that's a bigger problem okay thank you mam chair I just want to add if we have a manager or a leader that's asking for example a PE to sign off on something uh that does not seem accurate then we have bigger problems than we thought y exactly all right anybody else okay seeing none there is a motion by commissioner Moss with a second by commissioner Erman no further discussion all in favor I opposed motion carries thank you and with that mam chair yes um I I just want to ensure that the uh and I as the County Administrator that this was submitted the letter from uh Bentwood Bentonwood I can make sure it's submitted as part of the record is that submitted as part of I can I will I will provide Randy a copy of that to go with the agenda item that's a good point um thank you all right at this point we're going to take a I'm sorry Suzanne a minute reset break yes all is well e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e all right is everybody ready away all right we're going to call the meeting back to order our next item is 12 C1 Group Insurance recommendations for plan year 2024 2025 welcome well uh good morning commissioner Suzanne Bole Human Resources Director and I have really good news would you pull up so uh the county currently provides a really generous benefit package we have our medical and Pharmacy benefit our dental vision life disability uh both short and long-term disability critical illness and accident uh Insurance flexible spending accounts a health advocacy benefit employee assistance we have an elective surgery benefit through surgery plus di diabetes management through connect and we also offer our uh new uh Indian River County everside Health Center uh the employer the county pays a good portion of our employee benefits um I kind of broke it down a little bit here we have two medical plans uh with Pharmacy benefit rolled in and on the single plan the county pays 98% of the premium for single coverage and 84% of the family coverage cage on the gold plan the county pays 86% of single coverage and 73% of the family uh coverage and you can see the corresponding monthly amounts paid by employees ranging anywhere from single coverage at $15 uh family coverage at $27.50 a month or if you buy up to the gold plan it's $110 a month for single and $400 a month for family we also uh provide an employee assistance program the health advocacy benefit basic life insurance we added dental insurance vision insurance and long-term disability insurance last year so it's a really generous medical uh and total package that we offer for our employees my good news is that through March 2024 our 12- month loss ratio under the plan for both the gold and the silver combined we're running at 78.7% which means that out of the premiums that are going in the expenses are 78.7% of the premiums which is a is a good good situation to have um our health fund balance is solid we've got uh $25.2 million in the health fund balance um and we have uh projected funding requirements for the up upcoming year of uh just a little over 24 million based on projections now those funding requirements can change you can have a couple of catastrophic claims that really increase your your overall plan experience this is just a projection uh from the actuaries but the good news is that um even though our annual premiums are going to be bringing in 23.6 million which is a little bit less than what we're projecting we're going to need because we have a healthy fund balance no additional funding is required under the medical plan uh this year any questions on that I'm glad you yes I'm glad you brought that up because again when you when you state those numbers it sounds like wow we are uh financially sound in the Bank of Health yes but when you point out a catastrophic claim we're about a dozen away from depletion things can change very quickly when it comes what a catastrophic claim can do to this entire process yes so we're in a good place this year uh the plan is perform performing very very well and no additional funding is required I do want to um just let you know as well this funding projection includes the um surgery plus projected expenses uh in those numbers so that's that's uh pretty good as well any more questions fantastic Commissioners questions always good to hear that the recommendation is no premium increases yes very good now um another bit of good news is is uh we have our medical uh administrative service fee that we pay to Blue Cross Blue Shield our agreement is with Blue Cross Blue Shield of Florida or Florida Blue um and our current rate is 4674 per employee per month um it was supposed to increase to $484 per employee per month however Florida Blue has agreed to hold the current rate for another year so that's a savings of a little over $28,000 in administrative premiums more good news yes um we self-funded our dental program last year and that was at the recommendation of Lockton they actually came in and said have you considered self-funding your dental program and it's like well why would we do that and and we we talked it through and basically what we had faced in Prior years when you uh pay the insurance company to provide you the benefit they get to hold any any positive experience in those years and then when they think it's going to be a bad year they'll you know increase your rates so we wanted to retain that control we wanted to be able to retain the good years and then be able to have that cushion like we do in our medical plan which is self-funded for for the years where it might get a little rough so uh the good news here is that per that plan the dental plan is performing well and there is no additional funding that is required so that was a good decision for us to make surgery plus we have uh 34 months of experience under our belt since moving over with surgery plus as a that's a voluntary surgery benefit um you can still access the medical plan if you want to but this is just something on the side in addition to and we have uh roughly 67 procedures that have been um performed under this benefit saving $1.4 million of of uh diverted cost by allowing folks to go through that so another great benefit and more good news additional rate holds rate hold on Vision rate hold on basic life rate hold on retiree life on supplemental life on long-term disability short-term disability critical illness accident flexible spending accounts employee assistance program and the diabetes management no rate increase there now the awful news is we do have a 12 cent per month per employee increase in health advocacy the rates going up from a125 to a137 per employee per month hit us hard any questions any questions no I about the 12 cents commissioner flesher says we're going have to tighten our belts tighten our belts that's all we're going to have to do buckle up pull those boots higher but no uh I just wanted to point out you when you when you and maybe amplify it again you said 90 8% we PID 98% of the single coverage rate for insurance single coverage I I think the sheriff and I well when we were employed uh it was a different time uh we paid $112 a month and then everything broke loose and it started getting into $2 and $300 and there was some organizations that were paying $6 and $700 that individuals were paying $6 or $700 for their health health care and I I believe other area governmental entities were up as high as close to eight if they wanted the premium package they were far-reaching and a lot of folks did not have coverage they had to opt out of coverage because it was just too far-reaching there was no more Bo boots to pull up it take a third ofe salary just to pay for your health benefits yes so um I'm very excited uh to see that number 98% yes thank you fantastic any other comments questions or concerns yes commissioner Airman Madam chairman see this is great news especially in the time of inflation that we're having now that we're able to keep leas or medical insurance rat the same um you know it's not affect people's salary it's it's keeping their budget at home what is they know what they need to spend so great work on this and and thank you for your time and effort to keep an eye on this and make sure everything's running smooth this is uh this is really good news thank you you're welcome all right anybody from the public nope seeing none Commissioners what is your pleasure to approve I have a motion by commissioner flesher with a second by commissioner lore all in favor opposed motion carries thank you and with that we'll move on to Utility Services 12 J1 SE Oaks property this is probably the shortest title for one of your agenda items I've seen ever try try to keep it short today morning commissioner Sean Le utilities director um just wanted to to take a quick second this morning we have a property over on A1A that we have maintained for a long time we have an existing or an old wastewater treatment facility on site and and up on the screen you can see and this was in packet as well you kind of see generally where this is located it's located over off of um A1A on the west side of A1A just south of the wo Bridge um you can kind of see in the picture you can see the guts of an old wastewater treatment facility we uh decommissioned or we actually took that facility out of service in 2001 so we have actually not used this facility for um over 20 years um it's not been used there's no way that we could probably even recondition that to become a new wastewater treatment facility interestingly um you know as you all aware I've been here a little over two years when I first started um here we we were in the process of renewing a permit for a facility that doesn't um even operate and I questioned why we were doing that and so about a year ago we started a process to actually have the permit removed from that facility um we have no interest in using that facility we were maintaining the property uh for perhaps um we had a reuse plan that said we may need a storage tank over there for reuse um and re-evaluating that that really is not going to be necessary we don't have any ability to get any additional customers over on the Barrier Island so using that site for reuse really doesn't make a whole lot of sense um so so now about a month ago or so um in April actually it was in April we actually received um approval from De to remove the permit so we no longer have a permit on site and you know what we're looking at now is is is um couple of things right now also you can kind of see the buildings that surround the the guts of the system um SE Oaks we've had a lease with sea oos to actually lease the property um for their maintenance purposes and so they have a lot of Maintenance facilities on site um in addition in that little red area there is also a Cellular Tower that has been placed on the site and has been there so we have a lease for them so those are certainly some things to consider um you know as we move forward but essentially what we're requesting today is to place this property on Surplus and allow us to or authorize us to place it up for sale um we don't see a continuing need for it um so we would like to consider selling the property and and um actually getting it out of our out of our hands um and with that that's kind of what we're asking for today all right Commissioners questions comments concerns commissioner lore yes Madam chair good morning Sean morning with respect to that decommission permit would be we would we be able to access that another location in the county in other words do it just go back to the state or can we put that in our pocket and say no the permit's no good anymore I mean essentially the permit goes away um okay you know and permits are very site specific so when you get a discharge permit it's specific for that location and that discharge point if you will um and actually eliminating that that discharge permit it's not it's not like we can transfer it to someplace else we would have to apply for a whole new permit if we were to build a new plant okay and if we were to sell the property would we retain the royalty to the cell phone tower or would that go with the sale um I think you know there would have to be some sort of agreement in there that maybe an easement is in place for that and we would somehow perhaps M we would like to maintain the royalty and you know that's certainly something I think that would have to be incorporated in any sale um you know and any kind of agreement that we would have is that a possibility how would we do that what would that look like because You' also need an easement to actually maintain access to that cell tower which you know in there if kind of in the South part of that property there's an access point that comes into that um so we would have you need to maintain that you know that as part of it so um you know that's certainly something I think that we would like to consider in in the sale of the property for sure um but I don't know how that would I mean that's a negotiation that we'd have to to get into with ever you know offers it offers us a deal thank you yes commissioner irman thank you Sean what do we have let's say we sell the property what are we do we have to do an environmental assessment on do we have to tear down the building the this the thing the stuff that's there what do what do we have to do with the property anything what's our responsibility great question yeah I mean I think we would likely we have to do as as the seller of the property doing what we call environmental assessment phase two which is pretty in-depth environmental assessment to make sure that there's been no contamination left um by the facility itself um you know we had diesel plants you know diesel storage on side we had backup generators um the plant itself you know hopefully it's it's a Concrete structure hopefully it wasn't leaking but obviously you need to do an assessment to make sure there was no leakage into the soil and under the ground um so we would need to probably do some soil samples and do an in-depth assessment of the site um to make sure that there's no environmental contamination now if there is I mean there's always options either you NE again you negotiate in the sale the property to have them do the cleanup um or we would do the clean up prior to that um and then if the building needed to be you know obviously there's some some demolition that needs to occur again is that something we do or is that something that we negotiate you know in in the sale of the property hey we'll give you a discount because we realize you're going to have to do demolition um so I think all that would essentially be part of the negotiation all right commissioner moss do we know can you tell me the size of this piece of property and is there a any kind of appraisal so we know the value of it um I we don't have the value of it we would obviously have to have an appraisal done at this point you right now we're just asking it to be surplused and to consider it for sale I think the property is roughly about an acre um what's that 2.4 2.4 see call seahs they they know better than we do um so it's about 2.4 Acres okay Bill commissioner Moss maybe this would be helpful bill can you just briefly go through the process of what would happen once if we were to declare the Surplus and advertise it for sale because I know that there's a couple of different options and we haven't done that in a while so it might be good for the Commissioners to kind of refresh our memories thank you we can take two different directions on this property we can put it uh we can declare it surpa Surplus advertise for bids and sell it outright to the highest bidder would that include the cell tower or not that would be up to the board to decide um as far as the second choice that we can use if the board determines that because of the shape location size of the parcel would Ben would be of a benefit to one or more adjacent Property Owners we could negotiate directly with that adjacent property owner after we strike a deal the statute requires us to go ahead and notify the surrounding property owners and public notice not publish public notice in the newspaper of the proposed sale if anyone comes forward if two or more adjacent Property Owners come forward and object to the purchase price it would have to be uh publicly bid so there are the two choices SE as Mr parquette will uh explain in just a little while I would imagine has approached us and would like to take L of those two approaches so but either one requires us to declare them Surplus yes that's correct that's step one and then step two is do you want to put it out for open bids or do you want to negotiate with surrounding Property Owners because of constraints on that property either to size location access or other factors that's that's exactly correct Okay so so would this come back to us then to make that determination I mean because right now we don't know the value of it no to okay so the issues it this has nothing to do with valuation you either you declare it Surplus and put it out for bid and go through that process of coming up with a bid package and blah blah blah which would include valuation Phase 2 environmental all that kind of stuff or you declare it Surplus and and and with the negotiation with the neighbors option which as part of that negotiation would then require um some type of valuation Phase 2 um environmental all that kind of stuff because the neighbor is going to want to know that as well and then when a package is is put together for one or the other and a deal is kind of reached it comes back to the commission for final approval of of either the negotiated deal or the bid package correct this is the first step question is do you want to declare this Surplus or do you want to hold on to it if you do want to declare it Surplus which path would you like us to go down correct and then all the questions that you're asking about valuation that stuff come secondary to that Madam chair I would just encourage you to kind of as you take the first approach leave it open because unbeknownst to many OnStaff you know the former uh I IT director was had engaged a firm looking at and they received proposals and have fored me a proposal and I'll just say it's it's a pretty hefty amount but so I would just for the cell phone tower itself I've got to clarify all that I I literally got noticed like late last week that they were like hey sent you an email email and they called so was like okay but it's a so I think we need to investigate look at it you know whether it's just the cell tower or the whole property okay and Madam chair just real quick too I just want to clarify it to John's point we have long-term leases on that cell tower as well so we already have obligations for that cell tower so somehow we would have to carve that probably out of the cell because or included I mean so there's some complications there for sure so okay would it be easier because I I see Mr barquette in the audience and I will definitely give you time to speak but I'm going to assume that seks is also interested in the property and um my concern is we have if we have some email about a cell phone tower whether it's the property or the car vout or whatever I mean do we need to table this until we clarify that so we know or not no okay we have to all things aside as far as this Rogue offer that has come in we have not declared the property Surplus we have to go down either path after we declare it Surplus if you know this other party is still interested hey you know would be happy to talk to him okay that's the way the board wants to okay I just wanted to clarify because I figured that was going to be the next question commissioner fleser I think you were next Madam chair thank you and uh I while I look forward to hearing from uh Council Vette as we always do um I uh will uh make motion to move this paral Surplus as a very first step okay we have a motion to declare the process Surplus by commissioner flesher with a second by commissioner Airman anybody else have any comments or concerns about just declaring it Surplus that's all we're doing to anybody from the public okay all in favor opposed motion carries on declaring it Surplus now Bill and or Sean do we need to have the discussion of why Mr barquette I'm assuming is here regarding is it are we declaring it Surplus and negotiating with the neighbor are we declaring it Surplus and putting it out for bid I mean and and I'd invite Mr barquette to to um come forward at this point uh we have met with the SE people they have expressed an interest in purchasing the property uh again we're at the very early stages of this there has been no price talked about we have the cell phone tower that is there that we would have to uh take a look at as well so you know plus demolition of the place okay and there's a lot of moving Parts Mr Barat welcome thank you thank you very much Bruce barette representing seks could I have the picture back put back up please so the property is at the conjunction of those two yellow lines and everything to the west of the property is owned by sea Oaks everything to the north of the property is owned by sea Oaks everything to the east of the property is either CS or A1A and everything south of the property is owned by the state of Florida so the only adjacent neighbor is A1A in the State of Florida um we would urge you to take option two that Mr Dew pointed out we seks has already been doing investigation and recognizes that the cell phone tower is going to remain the the the benefit of the county we'll do an easement and let the county keep the royalties I mean that was never in question we've also started looking into the demolition cost for the concrete structures are are there and that's going to have to be it's going to have to come off the purchase price one way or the other no matter who you sell it to but the third point is if you look at the location of the property if any other owner were to purchase that that would just be an intrusion into the seks project SE originally owned this property it it gave it to the county in 1989 and and I'm pretty sure nothing was paid for it it was just a wastewater treatment plan that's what the way Mr Pinto was operating at the time and so there's a a bit of a fairness um question here if if you take the second route that bill talked about and you're and we're unable to negotiate a deal that the county is willing to accept or is agreeable to the county then you can always go to the first route but if you go to the first route and take it off for public bid there's no there's no going back so we would urge you for all those reasons to allow seks the opportunity at least to negotiate a purchase with the county acknowledging that we've already done research we understand there's a underground storage tank that's going to have to be dealt with there's a concrete structure that's going to have to be dealt with there's a cell tower that we're perfectly willing to negotiate with the county let the county retain it and retain the royalties with an easement that's something that we can easily work out um so anyway for those reasons we ask you to to take option number two that Mr deal described okay thank you commission questions it seems blatantly obvious that it should be at a bare minimum a right to First refusal on any any front because of the the the the manner in which the property is couched so uh with that uh I I believe uh that the second option is is the only option unless we were to able to give the first WR of refusal for the property that may become complicated so I I would I would motion to go with the second option I would second I would also agree with that chairman because Bruce is right that we they gave us that property they should have the they should have the option to enter in negotiation with them that we can enter and negotiate with them they can tell us we don't want it then we can go back to a second option yeah I would agree with that but with that with council is stating uh the uh understanding about the cell tower and the new information about a possible envelopment of the the cell tower and an easement for the cell tower I I think that this is is clearly the choice okay so there's a motion hold hold on there's a motion to um enter into the negotiation process with the neighbor now that the property has been declared Surplus that neighbor being SE Oaks by commissioner flesher seconded by commissioner irman commissioner MOS you have a question or a comment I think it's I think it's both basically um I'm concerned about this choosing the process and I understand there are two options here um before we know the value of of this land I mean we just we have no idea what it's worth and our first responsibility is a fiduciary one to the taxpayer that's our first responsibility um so to to choose the process without knowing the value um again in my opinion is is premature and I'm even surprised that it came in this way um or that we're even considering it today because uh the recommendation is simply to declare the property as Surplus and authorize its advertisement for sale I mean that's that's what was publicly uh noticed you know if you will that's what that's what people that's the expectation today so I I I think we need more information uh before moving forward with this all right thank you um Mr administrator do you have a question it's part of that process we would get an evaluate or get get an appraisal yeah we would get an appraisal for the purposes of negotiating I mean clearly we know that there's a third party that negotiated with others for the sale of this and have sent us a letter but and I'll follow up on that as well because that obviously would affect you know to make sure that the the county taxpayers are appropriately put in first place all right can can I just sorry just say one thing real quick Council Pet's right I mean I think originally this property was actually a package plant for sea Oak Property so the land was originally actually owned by sea o the plant was actually owned in operated I'm actually surprised there's not a reverter clause in it um and so you know you honestly we took it over for I mean my understand we took it over for them um because it was small and we were trying to unify services and have an opportunity in the future to provide reuse water if necessary it has proven because of other expansions in our system that's not needed and you know I I honestly 2.6 Acres if anybody else does come in and try to do anything it's almost a non-buildable lot by the time you do all the infrastructure and stuff that would be required for a standalone project so honestly I'm I'm I was going to ask you Bill but we had gotten past that point if there was a reverter because I'm just surprised that there's not but it was probably long ago and who even knows what happened back then and Bruce wasn't involved so that's probably why um um so I I get all that and I have no no problem and I know that like any negotiation both sides will get an appraisal both sides will do their reviews because that is what feeds into those negotiation discussions nobody's going to want to take less and nobody's going to want to pay more than they have to so um that's my two cents on the subject Commissioners any more comments questions or concerns if not anybody from the public we did have a motion by commissioner flesher the second by commissioner Erman if there's no further discussion all in favor opposed motion carries 4 to one with commissioner Moss dis senting thank you thank with that we will move on to Solid Waste Disposal District our first item is 15 B1 approval of Sid meeting minutes of April 9th 2024 approval I have a motion by commissioner fleser with a second by commissioner Ean all in favor opposed motion carries uh next item is amended renewal number four with tiger Inc for sale and purchase of natural gas I have a motion by commissioner irman with the second by commissioner flesher all in favor opposed motion Carri cares and with that we will move on to 15 B3 appeal of denial of protest relating to RFP 20 24020 welcome good morning Commissioners uh Jennifer Hyde purchasing manager um so as discussed this is a opportunity for appeals to uh ision regarding protests relating to the solid waste uh collection and Hauling RFP 2024 020 um just some brief overview of dates here advertis in November proposals were received February 21st um we had a committee that independently scored and uh ranked the five responses and uh that was compiled in an initial committee committee meeting um on March 8th the committee had a number of questions that they wanted to address by all of the firms so a request for qualifications was issued and those were received March 21st and the committee decided to reconvene to rerank based on the additional information obtained in those uh clarification responses and reranked the firms um April 24th the board approved uh the final ranking that was established by the committee and authorized negotiation and best offer of best and final offer with waste management and FCC uh for service options three and four and then May 21st uh waste management was selected with service option four so um May 20th uh I received a protest from SEC Environmental Services um of the award to waste management they had um several um issues with our process and so uh go over those briefly um first uh they stated the committee changed its ranking after the identities at the ranked proposals were made public initially when at the first meeting I were just referred to as proposal a through e um that was not correct uh the committee members knew all along who each of the propos proposals were from so that didn't impact their decision um second complaint was that um swid staff didn't consider the changes that are going to be necessary to waste Management's delivery of service based upon their new low price um they're asserting that they're going to have to make some changes um we made it pretty clear in the best and final offer that we were not going to be accepting any changes you have to uphold your proposal as submitted um another issue was that uh the baffle process and the release of the original price proposals allowed Waste Management to undercut fcc's price that's it's not really a procedural error we were required by Statute to release the pricing after 30 days of receipt so that's not something we can uphold um they St offic offers to waste management and FCC to submit best and final offers violated uh the direction of the board um that's also inaccurate the board approved the staff's recommendation uh to pursue simultaneous negotiations with the top two firms and to obtain their best and final offer and finally they stated that the staff's recommendation to the board for the May 21st meeting was misleading um the content of a staff report is not really a procedural issue that I could review or or score on so um in all the uh FCC protest was denied and they were notified of their right to appeal so at this time I'd like to ask the board to um hear fcc's appeal and then either uphold or deny the appeal um if the appeal is upheld we'll need the board to provide Direction um in their protest FCC had requested uh a coup two different options for remedy one is to cancel the award to waste management and reissue the RFP or to issue a new request for baffo and allow proper and fair negotiations so with your permission yes thank you um FCC come on up and we'll hear your appeal either one uh good morning Madame chair and Commissioners my name is Charles Merkley I'm vice president of Business Development for FCC North America and I want to start by say and emphasizing that FCC has consistently looked out to be a partner of Indian River County and I have a bunch of material here so I apologize looking down reading U but it's always been in the Forefront and with our protest we aim to highlight some unfair and flawed information on the current RFP process and as stated cancel this RFP and reissue a new one there's plenty of time and I think today you have the ability to correct some mistakes that were made and we'll lay those out as we go uh this will ensure the county makes a right decision over a long period of time this could potentially affect your decision making for or 10 years to come uh now talking about the committee and the selections FCC was ranked number one all the way through first second and then during the second on all options I might add and during the second committee surprisingly uh after some questions that were submitted that were all available within everybody's technical document the scores and the reranking changed at FCC was still number one and always number one but castal fell to Third and the only logical reason we can figure why the proposed recommended staff proposer is in second to get back into the game the committee clearly ranked not once but twice the best proposal the best pricing in FCC was always that so getting back to the actual protest we have some concerns with that we filed all the protests timely and it a point of clarification documented by documented by emails from your purchasing director a point of clarification on the proper time and procedure to have these protests submitted we have as I stated document documented the time mind laid out by the hour and by the minute when that should be in so we strongly disagree with the fact that we were not timing one of the things that we ask you to consider today whatever your decision may be FCC came here as a future partner in the spirit of providing your residents the best qualified proposal and I will say it again for the record not once but twice your committee voted that way until the baffo came about so my understanding on the 24th you voted the key wordss here is to negotiate and provide a baffle the negotiations never happen we got a letter stating the only option you have is to provide a baffo best and final offer well that just turned this RFP into an invitation to bid because now we're just bidding price we have thrown out the technical part of all of this and again we were voted the most resourceful by your staff evaluation committees that's now out the window and now we're just into a bid so once we get into a bid responsibly we did make some changes minor because we provided you our best price to First go around like an RFP should be so when we did this process one of the things we can understand and we're going to ask and request for today is your staff didn't take into consider all the pricing components for example your commercial businesses are going to take it double price increase on their current rate they are taxpayers too they're taking it on the back because that price was never adjusted so when you go and vote on a new opportunity with the proposed staff recommendation mind you your commercial customers are doubling in price just so you're aware of that so one thing we would ask today however you vote and if you could continue to move forward with this process we would ask you to call the proposer up here and explain to us into you how they could possibly drop $1.4 million from their original pricing to a baffle we just cannot understand that that's option three I believe correct option four they dropped $4.1 million so those numbers are 50% and 25% we would like them to explain how they can do that because we were told in the letter we cannot do anything else but give you a new price so how could they possibly do this service on the first RFP which we clearly won before the baffo and drop $1.4 million and then on the recommended option drop 4.1 million we don't understand that we would ask you to bring them up and explain that because a responsible bidder cannot possibly do that and you saw all the pricing there was that much not that much difference in pricing until the baffo and I emphasize the fact that you authorize your staff to negotiate and provide a baffo we never got notified only that there is no negotiations going forward and provide your best price so in conclusion I would suggest as commissioner fer did at this point I agree with him throw this all out start over again there's plenty of time every proposer of that proposed can get and provide back to you within a 30-day period new pricing and if you wouldn't consider that our second request is do the baffo in the negotiations properly bring the two tops selected uh by your Committee in and negotiate we feel it's unjust and unfair to change an RFP to an invitation to bit thank you very much and we appreciate your time thank you anybody else good morning uh CH uh Madam chair and Commissioners my my name is Joe Goldstein I'm from shuton Bowen I'm the counil for the other vendor Coastal waste and recycling I'm not going to all I want to ask is if you could hear from both of us before ruling on fcc's appeal because I my understanding procedurally is this is an appeal from FCC so that is what we're dealing with not everybody included unless I'm mistaken we have an appeal also I think that's pending before the commission that would occur next but this current agenda item is the appeal from FCC or is it from both of them it's both both okay go ahead I just want to make sure we are hearing to the I don't know if you'd like staff to give thank you very much again Joe Goldstein from shuten and on behalf of coastal waste and recycling uh my client is here Matthew Cowen The General Counsel for Coastal um to to use the sports analogy thank you for the opportunity for having this bid protest appeal the way I perceive this to be it's like a video replay in the Panthers and the the the Edmonton Oilers game that hopefully the Panthers win tonight and become Stanley Cup champions during the course of the procurement when staff has to make decisions immediately and then when they bring those recommend to you often sometimes we miss the big picture and the the benefit of having us to become here and give us some time to speak is we can step back look at things in a little bit in slow motion and and decide is this decision that you've made in the best interest in the county in the residents in the businesses and in that sense we support FCC and encourage you to say no um and you should reject all and restart and and and let me give you the reasons why and then I'll talk about my our our our specific appeal first of all let's remember the background that we're in um the current contract and waste management is your year incumbent the current contract doesn't expire until October 1st 2025 so kudos to the the county and to the staff for being well prepared in advance so there's plenty of time even without without asking Waste Management to extend its current contract to to get this right the the other big picture issue I to to why you have plenty of time you now know which option you want to use you you had four options in originally so vendors had to um counteract which option is going to be uh awarded which option does the county really want and so this time around now you've either reduced it to one option or you can you you can narrow it down down to make sure that all vendors are participating on what really the county wants and let me to focus on now Coastal W's complaints and why we filed our bid protest appeal and I I think um the gentleman from FCC uh kind of talked about some of those factually the first evaluation meeting was March 8th uh and and and at that first meeting um as to option number three coastal was ranked ahead of Waste Management um everything that the evaluation committee needed was in those written proposals before there was rankings no no evaluator said you know what I don't feel like I have sufficient information because that's what you should do if an evaluator needed additional information you don't go through and do the scoring and then come with a result and like FCC said FCC was ranked one in uh across the board uh Coastal was ranked at least second in option one and option two um and so by saying we're going to have a second meeting it gives the appearance whether it's accurate or not it gives the appearance that that second meeting was to give the second chance to waste management to get into the first and second um and so the second meeting there was written clarifications there was no oral presentations which you will often see of a procurement of this side so it wasn't like come talk to us about what you put in your written proposal to see if maybe there's a different flavor or clarification and so that was the first video replay moment we should stop and look right there after March 8th the second meeting shouldn't have occurred so the second meeting occurs and lo and behold what happens after that me meeting coastal's ranking in option number three goes to number three and waste management goes to number two um and again stop the video replay look at it that looks like the appearance of something was going on when um everything was already in the the the the written proposals but what happened at that that second meeting was initially Coastal my client was tied for second with Waste Management in your procurement handbook it talks about when you have ties how do you break the tie you're supposed to go look at the score sheets total up the total points and see see who's higher and lower in fact at the first meeting that was done to break a tie at the second meeting what staff did was instead of going to the total Point scores they opened it back up to the evaluation committee members to talk about it and while they were talking about it one person said raised a concern about Waste Management being so expensive so much higher priced and someone from staff said well if we do a baffo you don't really need to be worried about their specific price and that comment was said and then lo and behold one or two evaluation committies changed their rankings and made Waste Management number two and waste and Us number three then it came back to you all as the board and this is the second basis of our protest and ask for that video review even though we were essentially tied with them after the second meeting when they came to you of course you all said let's do a baffo and you excluded Coastal waste and recycling even though at the second meeting at the first meeting we were clearly number two at the second meeting we were tied for number two and so we never gave you the opportunity to give you our best and final even though we were ranked number two and option number three the first time uh meeting and and tied in the second meeting and and again the the last thing and again as FCC just not to belabor that point um in an RFP when you're asked to give your best price in the beginning and then you see a vendor reduce their price by 50% in one option and 26% in another option they were trying to take you for a ride how there's no other way to explain it but when they saw that they had adequate competition all of a sudden they can drop their price by over 50% for one option and 26% to go forward and not Grant these two appeals will only encourage future Behavior by other vendor to not give you their best proposal in the first instance that's what will be encouraged here which will not be in the best interest of the county for those reasons uh you should Grant both of these appeals reject all start over with your terms clarified your options clarified and we appreciate the opportunity to be here thank you very much thank you H Ma you I have a question we have had meetings on this process going back to over a year ago correct that's correct and as I recall we have talked about a best and final offer process throughout all those meetings in fact I believe we've it was a new process for us to go through and I recall one meeting the consultant and Jennifer I believe being here to explain specifically to the Commissioners what that process was about and what the steps along the way were is that correct that's correct uh for the record hon shth the managing director of solid waste disposal District commissioner you're you're correct uh throughout the whole process especially when it became you know that you know we sent out 87,000 postcards we invited the public first and foremost that that was our priority is is um have have meetings public meetings to kind of you know explain the process of what the RFP was about how you know even the the process leading to the the five responses um shared that with the public share with the with the commission allowed the public an opportunity to ask questions about some of the decisions that we looking to make um and ultimately we wanted you know the the lowest price price and the best service if you will for for our residents and and I and I'm proud of the process that that we we undertook um and uh I I I I I I understand the frustration of others we certainly don't want to discourage uh any of these companies in the future from from not participating in our process I think we did a a pretty fair and transparent process and again I stand stand behind it um when we asked or when we gave direction for the best and final offer um the organizations of which we were requesting that which is waste management and FCC were not allowed to change any terms of those original contracts the only thing they could do was adjust pricing can you explain that a little bit that's correct so um after board Direction about negotiation and and best and final offer uh we met with the County Administrator the county attorney and and the selection committee if you will and I think the negotiation team that we we kind of had in Q and we we all looked at it and and said that ultimately the proposals were technically sufficient we we were not looking to um change or negotiate or reduce the level of quality uh from any of the firms we didn't want Less trucks we didn't want them not to provide new carts we we weren you know there were no matter of sort of technical changes that we were willing to entertain so when it came down to that then it says well the only thing we're we're really looking at is the best and final price and we wanted to expedite the process not not waste their time not waste our time uh and ultimately not waste the commissioner's time so we we clearly issued a letter to both companies and said you know you have an opportunity to provide your best and final offer if you if you consider your original price your best final that's okay you're not obligated to respond if you want to respond uh the only thing you could do is reduce the price you cannot increase in one category and decrease in another all you can use the same spreadsheet that you used before uh only for option three and four and you have the ability to reduce your price whatever you're comfortable with uh we didn't we didn't uh you know specify any any sort of a percent decrease or anything to that matter uh and we clearly said that all of the other aspects of their proposal uh we're we're going to be adhered to so all of the you know whatever they responded to in the original response any questions or clarifications they provided uh the companies had to that's going to be part of the contract we're not we're not changing any of the requirements for for for what was included in the orig original proposal so the only thing was the reduction in price okay so just to summarize though I'm fully understanding the selection committee met twice to determine and rank which organizations would be best able technically to provide the services requested in the RFP that was step one that's correct step two and that's what came to us at that point we determined or approved the top two to go and ask for the best and final offer from that's correct those best and final offers came back to the commission with each organization choosing strategically how they wanted to submit those best and finals or what numbers they wanted to use or not use but they were still required to perform technically the terms that they had originally been ranked upon that's correct and then we awarded a bid based on those best and final offers knowing that both both um submitters were technically able to perform those and what regardless of whatever the price was that was what they were going to have to perform that's correct so I feel like this process has been going on for over a year we've been very clear about the best and final offer so that should really have been no surprise to anybody and if an organization chooses for whatever business reason to cut their bid or not cut their bid or submit what pricing they submitted at the end of the day my goal is to get the best price for the resident and somebody who can technically carry out the terms of the contract so I'm not really inclined to approve the appeal but that is my feelings on it so Commissioners question comments concerns yes I kind of feel the same way you do at the end it's the the best in final offer I was very surprised that waste management came back with a reduction they did I got to say I was kind of shocked by that that did if we you know if we'd have gone with the original price how much more we'd have been paying I understand fcc's question on that um but we did we were specifically clear on the on the best and final offer type thing and then at the end it is you're exactly right when you say that it is our job to get the the best price for the best service that we can do and I and I think we've done that but but again I I I can understand uh fcc's concerns with regards to this um about that but I think hontu Jennifer yall are good with everything I mean I trust both of you explicably for your honesty and your integrity y'all are both good with this process how it was handled and and everything I mean because I from what I've seen from the whole process it has been on the up and up and I I I if it wasn't I'm sure our County administrator or County attorney would have interjected their thing and I I think yall are good with it also yes sir yes mrman I I I think the conversation between the chair and honu distinctly sum sum summarized uh the County's position on this matter I second the county attorney's opinion yes I am okay I do as well thank you um so I I only thing I was uneasy with this was the price that Waste Management did come back with a reduction in the price um I I do feel like it was a little strange that there was that much of a gap and they were able to drop it that much but in the end Waste Management's capable they proved themselves capable they did come in with the best un final offer on this so I don't see what the use is to go back and try to do this all over again Madam chair was it was brought up by uh the appellant um that uh I had suggested uh to throw throw all out and rebid all um and that's fair game it was said um I I just wanted to clarify that during the process um and and I I did share it with hantu uh afterwards as well that when when we were doing this we were negotiating price and services at the same time and design of methodology at the same time and um I I didn't care for that element in the end which was then offered two uh to the the top two to give a baffo I think it all changed when one of the applicants flatlined their offer and again I was uh thoroughly surprised to hear that the offer from Waste Management had been so greatly reduced and again one could only uh speculate to say wow were they actually going to ask for that price in the beginning or that was when you're realizing that they're getting a different type of product now being delivered that there'll be no billing involved and they there are greater reductions um again I'm I'm not going to make their business decision for them I am not going to point out any reasoning behind their business decision but I don't assume that they're in the business to uh make it make it the loss up in volume it's just not going to happen so with that in evaluating what was discussed I I have to say the appet did not did not reduceed the rate if I'm correct on the on the baffle is that correct it was it was so very slightly um almost unnoticeable undetectable U and then you have an overwhelming reduction so um yes um as that was happening I would have preferred to let everybody bid again because of the manner in which we did did that about the the titration of the product in which we were seeking for our citizens now we're deciding in this faction now we're going to move on to the style and type and I it was probably one of the more complicated public negotiations as far as and and I felt that should have been part of the package and NE negotiated prior to not as we were actually going through the motion but with that said um I'm I'm now comfortable with the outcome uh I I feel uh and Consulting with the attorney that all was was right and just and fair uh and uh I just wanted to explain the comments and the comments that we were reminded of during the conversation day as well as the previous meeting thank you chair La I think that um you know we we had the several meetings we chatted about the process this is about the process um we vetted the process we had professionals say that the process was acceptable uh we have tenured employees and I've said this plenty of times from here uh that we have professionals working at this agency and at some point we have to trust what they do you're talking about tenur employees that are going to do the right thing particularly if they're at will uh each and every time so uh with that we have to we have to have faith in our in our process and faith in our employees that are that are professionals indeed and with that I have motion that we reject both of these bids both of these appeals check all right there's a motion by commissioner lore to deny the appeals um a second or reject the appeals a second by commissioner flesher just want to ask a question yes commissioner Moss of Haru with the um the bid the final bid by Waste Management um do you feel confident that they will be able to fulfill the technical requirements yes I do commissioner Moss I do you do okay thank you and HRA just to follow up if they don't what happens we we have made this contract uh and the draft contract was available right from the the initial RFP process we have Provisions in the contract that that have really U made more stringent requirements more penalties if you will for not adhering to the the contract requirements um and and so we're going to we're going to hold hold hold their feet to the fire in terms of performance just Madam chair as a followup hu can you share with us and share with the board have you been in a position under the current contract to hold the provider responsible and accountable yes I have thank you all right if there's no further discussion anybody else from the public seeing none Commissioners all in favor opposed motion carries thank you all right is there anything else for the good of the order no please I mean seeing none We Stand adjourned