all right is everybody [Music] ready oh all right we're going to go ahead and call the County Commission meeting of February 6th to order we'll start with a moment of Silent reflection for our First Responders and members of the Armed Forces followed by an invocation by Pastor Jim Gallagher with Calvary Chapel of Vero Beach followed by the Pledge of Allegiance by myself everybody would please rise well good morning my name is Jim Gallagher and I'm the pastor Calvary and Vero Beach and I've been a citizen here of Indian River County for 25 years and I want to thank you for your service to our community and I like to pray for you this morning so father we come to you we we thank you for your grace Lord your word tells us that in our weakness Your Grace is made strong and so we're asking that for each of those that sit in these seats and make uh the decisions that affect the lives of so many in our community we pray father for your blessing upon them we know that no Authority is given to man except that which is given by you so help them to embrace that and Lord as their Charter really comes from that idea of promoting the the general welfare and securing the blessings of liberty for the citizens we pray that you'd help them in all of their decision making give them wisdom beyond their years and experience and uh help them Lord as they seek to help us and serve us and Lord for those that serve also we took a moment of silence for those that that serve us putting their lives on the lines and we ask God your special blessing upon them and our community today in Jesus name amen join flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible andice for all all right Commissioners um I'm going to do a little rearranging on the agenda if yall bear with me for a second I'd like to move item 7A a proclamation honoring Elise Bruce to 5D and then I would like to take the proclamations before the presentation so we'll move presentation 5A to after the new item 5D and then um commissioner ir's item there's several people that need to get back to work so I'd like to move that to after consent that sounds great so y'all are GNA have to keep me straight and I remember where I'm supposed to be Madam chair is so moved second all right with that we'll move on to presentations our first presentation is a presentation of Proclamation recognizing African-American Pioneer Reverend Carl L darol Mr darol are you here come on up bring your family with you I it's my pleasure to read this Proclamation this is a proclamation recognizing African-American Pioneer Reverend Carl L derasa whereas IND no County celebrates africanamerican African-American Pioneers who through their service in the business public and elected Arenas have paved the way for this and future generations and whereas Reverend derasa attended gford Elementary and gford high school before moving to New York where he received a bachelor's degree in Psychology followed by a doctor of ministry and whereas he previously worked as a parachute rigger for the US Army a hospital chaplain teaching Dean and Pastor he has traveled throughout the United States and South Korea to help those in Need by providing Ministry services and whereas in 2016 Reverend derasa joined the Friendship Missionary Baptist Church in gford where he has touched the lives of countless congregation members outside of church he frequently dedicates his time to attending County Schoolboard and affordable housing committee meetings and whereas Reverend derasa is Minister to the fuel fuel men's group in Sebastian a member of the American Legion Hall and is building an alliance between African-American and Jewish Americans he is an avid supporter of gford Youth achievement Center and the gford Historical Museum now therefore be it proclaimed by the board of County commissioners of Indian miver County Florida that the actions of Reverend Carl L derasa have greatly enriched indu County he has selflessly dedicated his life to serve support and assist members of our community adopted the sixth day of February 2024 and signed by all five County Commissioners and Reverend it's our pleasure to present you with this Proclamation congratulations and thank you for all you do for our community thank you thank [Applause] you I want I would like to thank you for this great honor uh for certainly I'd never dreamed that I'll come back home to be honored in such a way I stand on the shoulders of many great pioneers the GIF community that of uh Victor Hart senior uh Ralph Lundy Joe Outlet even my mom who was a community worker as well and just passed on last year at the right age of 101 so I'm greatly indebted to all of you and as I stand here I'm thinking about my pilgrimage as I left here Vero Beach High School five days after graduating high school I went to New York to again further my education couldn't afford to go to college so I was a night student that's why I don't play golf I was too busy after after work studying what have you but I thank God for this great privilege and as I stand I think about the pilgrimage of Moses he was he had gone away for some 40 years but at some point he met God in a burning bush likewise in the cold and snow of Minnesota God spoke to my heart to bring me back for such a time as this and so because it was much work to be done when I left we had social gathering places for our youth we had adult places for our uh our adults we had restaurants uh theaters buff companies and a way we were thriving we were never hungry because we had chickens running around the around the streets and what we had to do is go grab the chickens and rang their neck and it was on uh but again I understand the reason why I've come and so basically I I heard one day I heard the voice of the god saying out of all that needs to be done whom shall I send and who will go for us I said here my Lord send me so I solicit your participation I solicit your hearts of compassion to join forces with us in the GIF of community because at that time we had a song give him that old giord religion it was good enough for my father and it's good enough for me so I ask you to join forces of us to make gift of a thriving Community like we once had so again thank you for this great honor and I appreciate it and may God bless you all Madam chair uh I I just wanted to point out something that was very unique and how it happened I I don't know you see the Proclamation states that uh uh called darur went to New York and uh we we had worked together a couple of times and specifically on the Gord water tower uh project uh if we want to call it that yes and uh we were at a subsequent meeting and I remember uh seeing these two fine individuals sitting across the way stepping up to the plate and uh well Reverend darasa is looking at my name tag and he said he just out of the clear blue he said you know I I work with somebody with that name I thought it was odd because there there was only three of us and oh you went to New York well he went on to explain that the Geographics the occupation and we didn't mention that occupation in in that Proclamation but some I guess it was about 50 years ago yeah 35 or so 3540 somewhere around there I know I was about this big uh called darasa at the time worked with my dad in New York and he remembered him and the dad had mention my dad's gone now U he's he would have been close to Carl's mom's age so at this point I just want to say thank you for coming back home making a difference in the community and making a difference back then too thank you thank you so much you have a tremendous guarding light right next to you amen would you like to introduce your U Guiding Light absolutely uh his name is Jesus Christ well but it's my better have Reverend Hannah darasa amen she works with me I met her in New York as well and along with that I have my oldest sister here miss Helen Carter amen and so and so many uh oh okay also my younger sister here Baba McGriff so we we thank God Amen and so many others amen uh Johnny May and manye you know but Joe Hawkins and Wilfred uh Hart so again we're here to say thank you again some of you are homegrown some of you ingrown you came from out and have grown amen but again we thank you for this great honor that you bestowed upon us this day thank you so much thank you you thank you I I have a personal thank you that that I would like to extend to the Reverend um I met Reverend jisol after a uh after an affordable housing advisory committee meeting uh the summer before last and a few weeks after that when I was hit by a truck he was one of the first people to call me and prayed over me uh by phone and that was such a comfort to me at the time and I'm I'm well I'm thankful that I survived and I'm thankful to be able to um extend my appreciation to you publicly for that call and then after that I attended a service at your church and the entire uh congregation prayed for me and it's something I'll never forget thank you thank [Applause] you you want to bring all your family as well sisters want to stand next to you absolutely look I don't know I mean I do they might they might not want to they want to come they will come they [Laughter] will Jo W J please come please come you want to come right on up here and then we'll take a picture for you morning I'm trying I got a manual all right thank you so much [Applause] congratulations okay all right yeah all right our next Proclamation is a presentation of proclamation recognizing African-American Pioneer Ernie James Greer it will be presented by commissioner flesher Mr G would you like to come on up with your ENT garage or yourself bring camera you got the camera that's all you need we wouldn't recognize Ernie without his camera good morning good morning and welcome Ernie um I have to say it's a privilege and honor to present this Proclamation I know you've heard this Proclamation we presented this Proclamation at the mon Luther King uh dinner and uh we got them once and now we're going to make him talk about it with that uh let me present the proclamation and then we'll get started with that uh this Proclamation is recognizing African-American Pioneer Ernie James Greer whereas any River County celebrates African-American Pioneers who through their service in the business public and elected Arenas have pav the way for this and future Generations whereas Ernie James Greer was born and and raised in IND River County he moved to gfed in 1958 and in 1969 he attended buo Beach High School as it was desegregated for the first time and whereas Mr GRE worked as an EMT for a volunteer ambulance helping the vulnerable and those in need before enlisting in the United States Army whereas upon being honorably discharged Mr GRE joined Jo the Press Journal where he worked as a cameraman photographer and Pressman and was frequently the first on the scene in many of the County's major events and cases he would later create the Indie River Times newspaper and the gfed Life Magazine whereas in 2021 Mr gria was instrumental in the fruition of the gfed water tower which now stands as a symbol of the resiliency and pride gifted residents exemplify now therefore be proclaimed by the board of County commissioners of Indie River County Florida that we applaud Ernie James Greer and his outstanding contributions to the community he has been Paramount in preserving the culture the Heritage and sense of place in gfid while showing great passion for its great citizens this was duly adopted in the 23rd day of January 2024 and signed by all five County Commissioners Ernie thank you so much for what you do the great Passion and sincerity and dedication that you utilize that lens that you're holding to show a a a positive and effective uh view of gford any River County Florida United States of America your passion is the well well received and shown throughout the community and thank you for doing what you do thank you thank you [Applause] commission didn't do anything special what I do hello [Music] mot perfect timing another case for Ernie what I do is just have fun I was born right here in this area called Spillway across the canal in the Ral Memorial Hospital I'm proud of my community I'm proud of Indian River County glad I was born here I wouldn't rather be anywhere else and what I do like I say it's just fun I'm just out there so if you think I did something special thank you thank you thank you other than that I don't know what else to say well yes Ernie you did and uh I recall as we were going through the gford water tower scenario I remember hearing that shutter speed kicked up a notch because you said I'm preserving this and still trying keeps you from tearing it down and your and your efforts have actually more than preserved it photographically I believe we're on the right course so you have had a tremendous impact I just want to ask how at the time let's go back to your early years of how you chose photography it really wasn't a popular Endeavor at the time for an African American is that correct I think so so I stole my aunt's camera when I was like 13 and she wasn't using it so I wanted to know how it worked well you B and somebody gave me some printing blocks and I wanted to know how printing work so I put them all together told my mom when I was 15 I was going to work for the Press Journal I did for 22 years but I never thought I was GNA do anything significant I just like I said I'm out there just having fun this thing is just recording history and recording whatever I see it's just an extension of what I what's going on up here and I don't even know what's going on here all kind so but I sure thank you and I appreciate it and I'm so humbled never won an award before but thank you thank you [Applause] Ernie Ernie Ernie I've known you for a long time and uh like me you grew up here and your work has always been tremendous the photographs you've had no matter whether it was when you worked for the paper or what you do now is your your work with photography has always been amazing but I am surely convinced of one thing when I saw you and your family in public week or so ago you had a jacket on and I didn't your camera was behind you and I'm like whoa whoa AR need that where's this camera because I'm convinced if you go missing we're not going to be worried but if we find your camera somewhere by itself there's a problem thank you for all you do thank you for all you do you just it's been great for the community and great for what you do and presting basically life here in any River County it's always just been fabulous and I appreciate it thank you so very much I'd like to add to that what you know one of the things that makes your work special is when you photograph something even if we've seen it thousands of times whether it's a 17th Street Bridge or a bumblebee sitting on a flower the way you capture it you you stop you know you stop and you look at it and you see it in a different light maybe sometimes literally even and I love that about your work and for anyone who hasn't seen this work it's posted on Facebook um under well under your name but also uh in River uh times so thank you again and you are very special thank you thank you morning someone else is gonna have to take your picture now Ernie brought a photographer have [Music] doubt I'm congratulations thank you very much all right our next Proclamation is a proclamation honoring Elise Bruce on her retirement from the indan River County Sheriff's Office and that will be presented by commissioner lore thank you madam chair Lee Lee and the team come on down I was going to say I know you have an Entourage to bring down with you w you even got Kim out of retirement I did man that's impressive I got Sandy and Sandy andry oh my gosh you got them all watch out for [Laughter] Ernie wow Commissioners and friends it's an honor and a privilege for me to read this Proclamation honoring Lee Bruce on a retirement from Indy River County Sheriff's Office whereas Lee Bruce is retiring from IND River County Sheriff's Office effect of February 29th 2024 and whereas Lee began her journey at in River County Sheriff's office on May 19th 1986 and has served with distinction for over 36 years wow and whereas Lee began her career as a Correctional Deputy but spent the majority of her service serving the citizens of Indian River County as a public safety dispatcher and whereas over her tenure Lee received many acknowledgements and commendations for efforts including life saving going extra mile honorable service dispatcher of the year and exceptional Duty whereas at least work diligently under five different sheriffs to protect and serve the citizens of Indi River County and the State of Florida and whereas Lee's remarkable dedication to her profession has earned her the appreciation of sheriff flowers and all of those that she's had the honor of working with and we see a dozen of them now now therefore be it proclaimed by the board of County commissioners of vening River County that this board LS the contributions of Lee Bruce as made to the citizens of vend River County during her highly successful law enforcement career and wish her a happy and prosperous retirement signed this sixth day of February 2024 by all five County Commissioners congratulations wow like to say a few words yeah okay thank you County Commissioners Robin Lou sheriff for this honor I've been employee of the sheriff's office for the last 37 and a half years before marriage before children before a lot of things I've always said I love my job and I still love my job it's truly one of the hardest job anyone will ever do we're always there no matter what always answering the call 247 so please remember your dispatchers take good care of them they are one of the hardest working employees you have for this County I had the opportunity to work side by side with some amazing people from deputies to dispatchers to my sister and my daughter and just information Lou retires next year after 40 years 40 years for the agency I do want to thank the sheriff for allowing me to be the first reserved dispatcher this County will have so I'm not really going anywhere I will volunteer and be there when Robin needs me so again thank you very much for this recognition it's an honores hey guys this just want to say thank you for taking time out of your agenda today I know you have a very busy schedule and uh for making time for our employees uh it's important that we recognize our folks and uh 30 38 almost 38 years uh for Lee uh we're going to be back here soon to see you for Lou for 40 plus years it's absolutely incredible and it's also a sad day for us that uh you as she said she's not she's not really leaving but it's a sad day for um this much experience to be walking out of the Indie River County Sheriff's Office and so um we're certainly going to miss Lee I want to thank you for uh everything you've done for uh for everyone at the end of County Sheriff's Office you you you take care of so many different people um from citizens to deputies um to all the employees who call in and ask so thank you for all that you've done thank you thank you I did have a speech prepared however everybody has kind of cover the topics that I was going to talk about there's one thing that was not included in it is with Lee departing um the sheriff's department as an employee we lose our Mama Bear because she is truly our mama bear and she is our party planner so our parties won't be as good as used to be but with all that being said I will end this with thank you Lee for your almost 38 years of service to in River County and we wish you many years of happiness and [Applause] retirement [Music] got Sandy out here too oh my God good to see you it's your picture you put them where you want them all your voices mean so much to me I know [Laughter] right fantastic thank you congatulations I understand completely she old all right Commissioners um the next item should be a present ation on the process for establishing a quiet Zone to address train horn noise and I see our M and Brian is coming up are you taking the lead okay Eric's got it all right fantastic there's always a first so here we are morning Commissioners Eric Ferguson County Traffic engineer with me is Brian Freeman with the mo and I we also have Rory Newton with the Federal Railroad Administration oh welcome so um we're gonna present um PowerPoint on the process we could have a quiet Zone and we'll answer your questions and seek some direction okay okay so a quiet zone is a section of rail line at which train horns are not routinely sounded but it's the keyw is routinely it quiet sounds a little bit of a misnomer you're still going to hear a train horn if there's em any emergency situation if the train crew sees a vehicle a person an animal they can Sound the Horn if there's construction going on with the railroad the horn has be sounded I'm sure all of us know what a train horn sounds like the federal government has very detailed regulations on it um I'll hit some of the key points uh horn is typically sounded 15 to 20 seconds at every Crossing and the deciel range is between 96 and 110 DB on September 22nd 2023 bright line began its service from West Palm Beach to Orlando with that there was um several changes notably 32 additional trains a day and there was D the tracks were double tracked in addition The Crossings were all reconstructed in substantially different configurations currently there's 38 day trains 15 night trains for a total of 53 trains um to note on the freight that includes some of the short trains that not every freight train is the long ones and also also to note is that bright line increased the the trains from 21 32 additional trains a day so that means there's 32 additional horn soundings at every Crossing uh with the settlement agreement there were substantial changes to the crossings I'm going to hit it um hit a few key points uh most notable is there were 52 vehicular exit gates added on your left there's a diagram of a rail Crossing with entrance and exit gates and this is the treatment at the majority of our Crossings and why this is important is the exit gates um it's you can't drive around uh the entrance gate and sadly we've had crashes other communities without ex Gates and a couple other a couple other improvements I think are really important that are unique to Indian River County with the settlement agreement is we have second Trin warning blank out signs we have one-way pedestrian exit gates um we had new traffic signals constructed there's several other communities that I know that did not get traffic signals constructed that actually have are going back now with their expense and are funding traffic signals and we also had battery backups added at the traffic signals that are connected to the rail crossings and those those improvements I don't believe any other community has we currently H our ordinances currently have a Night Train band from 10 p.m. to 6:00 a.m. the ordinance is not enforcable in 1991 it was preempted by a Federal Railroad Administration emergency order that actually all the emergency order actually started in Florida with the FC so everything's a circle and in 2005 the emergency order became a final rule the our Crossings in 2005 were not configured with the appropriate safety measures to qualify for a quiet zone so if we want to have a quiet Zone there's a couple requirements at the top of your slide there's a diagram that the cross the circles in green would represent a quiet Zone the circles in Gray would represent Crossings where a train horn would be sounded so One requirement is the quiet Zone has to be half mile minimum in length and every Crossing and that half mile or longer H has to be included you can't skip a crossing and then you need a quarter mile distance to the next Crossing where you would have a train horn and for hours of a quiet Zone you have two choices all day or 1000 p.m. to 7: am. 6: am 6 am thank now in the county who can create a quiet Zone a public authority of responsibility for traffic control or law enforcement can in our County the city of Sebastian city of buau beach fdot or Indian River County could be the applicant for The Quiet Zone and if we wish to have a quiet Zone that spans multiple jurisdiction that's allowed we just would have to reach agreements with the other municipalities and FD this is a chart of the crossing ownership in the county the as you can see the county has it's based on roadway ownership the county is the majority has the majority of the crossings 22 out of 32 total this is a map of the crossings in the county the the map's a little different than what you're used to uh North is to your right um it fit better on the slide it's to make it more visible um I'm going to note a couple items The Crossing ownership is thect Ed in in colors red is the county fdot is an orange city of Vero Beach is purple and City Sebastian is a bluish green based on the regulations St Lucy County to your left their Crossings are far enough away that we do not need to do any coordination with them on your right Bard County's Crossings are far enough away that there's no intergovernmental County another item to note is the city of Sebastian the there's an a mix of County and City Crossings some of the C some of the crossings if we're do a continuous segment are in unincorporated some are in Incorporated so there would be a need definitely a need for coordination there and finally I'd note that as staff when we looked at the overall County there really wasn't an obvious place place where there wasn't residential density to skip to have a quiet Zone not have a quiet zone so staff's recommendation is if we were to do it it would be a countywide quiet zone I'm going to briefly go through our typical Crossing configurations after the settlement agreement so this is a Oso Road this is a listing of what every Crossing has the flashing lights Bells Gates constant warning device power indicators this is the this a photo of 12 Street this is what's referred to as a four quadrant gate system it has exit gates uh so you can't drive around it this is our most common configuration we 25 of our 32 Crossings have this configuration second configuration we have is a one-way Road five of our Crossings have this configuration so in this configuration you have the gates go down on the entrance side block all the vehicular lanes and being that's a one-way Road there's not a need for exit gates final configuration is what we call a hybrid of we have three gates and a long median there's two Crossings this configuration on your left there uh on your left you have a very long median which makes it difficult for vehicle to go around the gate and on the right side there's an exate and a short median so the reason we have exit gates at this location is if the median were to be extended the left turn lane would be eliminated so in summary 25 of our Crossings are four quadrant Gates we have five one-way Crossings and two hybrid three gate median combinations the 30 of the Crossing ings are considered supplemental safety measures and would automatically qualify for quiet zone two other Crossings are alternate safety measures which although they have similar safety benefits there's a longer process to have the have their safety benefit included in the application so fundamentally with a quiet Zone what we have what we need to do to to demonstrate the f is that that with the elimination of train horn we were're not posing a significant increase in risk and that we've compensated for it so we've run F's quiet Zone calculator with FAS assistance uh preliminary analysis and we found that our quiet Zone Risk Index for countywide crossing would be less than the Risk Index with horns so we would qualify uh and what what's important is there's no no no additional construction would be Prov required no additional improvements at The Crossings the major work would be we'd have to add additional signage for no train horns or no train horns from 10 p.m. to 6 6 6: a.m. and there's um another wrinkle is the Federal Highway Administration adopted a new traffic control device manual after bright line completed its construction so we're going to have to revisit um the markings and some of the other signs but that those are not significant costs this is um go through this briefly this is the flowchart from fr's manual there depending on your situation there's a lot of there's different reporting requirements different application requirements we highlighted in yellow the route we think is the most efficient so I just wanted see it is a even though we have the physical devices in place it's still a process I'm briefly going to go through the the steps we would have to do first is to file a notice of intent that would go to the railroad uh fdot's rail office and there would be comments we would respond to comments one next step is we'd have to for a countywide option we would have to execute interlocal agreements with fdot city of Sebastian and city of Roo Beach we have to obtain updated traffic counts at every Crossing we have to visit all 32 sites and update the grade crossing inventory forms we would have to rerun the quiet Zone risk calculator with the new traffic counts we'd have to file a notice of establishment and the signing and pavement markings would have to be updated the current standards and adding no train horn signs and finally we'd silence the horns routinely um and then every two and a half to three years there's reporting requirements to cycle continues we have to affirm that our Crossings are configured correctly to maintain the quiet Zone this is a preliminary schedule we think we could uh six months is realistic the as far as the work breakdown structure the biggest risk that a schedule would be the interlocal agreements which staff would not have compl complet control over the schedule there are some future fiscal impact we'd have some additional maintenance of no train horn signs and every two and a half to three years we have reporting requirements to FR um and the most probably as far as staff time we the longest item would be updating the traffic counts we do count some of the crossings already other municip I alties the status of their quiets and it's quite varied city of Viro Beach and city of Sebastian have staff have expressed an interest in participating in a quiet Zone West Palm Beach has already established a quiet zone for their section from West Palm Beach to Orlando and Martin County's waiting one year so that that's that's our presentation so we welcome to answer questions and staff is requesting Direction whether we should be in the process of establishing a countywide quiet Zone and if you wish to begin establish a quiet Zone the choice would be all day or 10 p.m. to 6:00 am. 7 am sorry it's 6 the slides incorrect yeah all right Commissioners questions comments for staff Madam chair when you showed the one chart Eric uh about the half mile distance so if we're within a half mile it can't be a quiet zom yeah you want I just reintroduce myself I'm Rory Newton I'm with the federal rail Administration I'm a railroad safety inspector here in Florida um I'm with the great Crossing trespasser and Outreach Division and one of my duties is assisting local governments with establishing quiet zones the half mile requirement is to establish a minimum size of a quiet Zone you can have a one Crossing quiet Zone the the captur distance is to ensure that nearby adjacent Crossings aren't excluded from AC zone so not having you know one Crossing is a Zone and the next is not and it's just this checker board pattern of horns and no horns becomes almost impossible to maintain or manage for most railroads and communities is that that's your question sir I think so uh the beginning you said and I think your first or second slide said all trains must now has that changed with the preemption all my trains must what it said all trains must sound their horns so the the train horn rule that's the the CFR the part 222 it at the same time it requires train horn whistling also incorporates the quiet zone so either they have to whistle for The Crossings per the rule or they observe the quiet Zone and the railroads can't object to quiet zone so they have to compliant one way or the other and then they have the option for whistling for you know un unplanned contingencies like construction or emergencies right I also saw where it said all uh parties must agree and you mentioned city of Sebastian and Vero I didn't hear about F do they would and historically in the 100 quiet zones that are established in Florida fdot has participated in numerous of them we've reached out to them and they would agree as well I can't speak for FD but they have they have okay frequently we have not reached out to fot yet but they did participate when I worked at the city of West Palm Beach they participated for all the crossings in Broward and Palm Beach County and I don't anticipate they would not partic and they participated for the latest I don't I don't anticipate they would object so what are the statistics of any uh incidents involving either FEC or bright line in the existing quiet zones compared to the non- quiet zones well I I don't have a stats in front of me but they they there there are instance continuously in quiet zones regardless of the warning devices installed uh another challenge the qu zones in further south have faced is with issue with trespassers uh being struck by trains is there's a a loss of awareness of the trains without the train horns whing for the cross Crossings and that seemed to have a Major Impact particularly in Brower County was put under uh the administrator's review for termination of their quiet Zone and they had to take significant steps to protect their quiet Zone and enhance safety Beyond just Crossings right so I think you're talking about bokeh South Palm Beach it was all BR County also has a countywide quiet Zone their quiet zone is I think over 70 Crossings right don't they have fences all they have some but they don't have uh as many we call the supplemental safety measures like the four quadrant Gates or medians at all their cross they have a lot less but the trains do not exceed 79 mes hour and they're Qui Zone this is a right significant difference are you aware of some of the uh fencing in Broward County that's been cut uh by pedestrians so they can cross the track even in the quiet Zone I don't really have any personal accounts but uh Public Safety fencing ground rail tracks is always a continuing challenge for railroads and uh local governments to maintain that they're almost always constantly being tampered with or defeated in some way and then there are types of fenes you can invest in that are more robust higher security um of course a trade trade-off is a more cost right and who pays for that uh that's up between the Public Authority and the railroads to decide who's going to own the fence and maintain it it's they Afra we do not dictate who's going to do what uh railroads typically they prefer someone else maintains the fence and there's a lot of liability with the fenes if pathways are formed and it it they become very tenuous times right I'm aware of those um who would bear these costs Eric or Brian if we if we did it here for the county I know the municipalities would be they would be on the hook for their areas right and then the county would be on the hook for the other majority of them yeah the county would have to bear the cost for our quiet Zone it's it's really it's a lot the cost is mostly staff time it's not a huge cost um I would anticipate in the interlocal agreement we would want the municipal municipalities to have to maintain their Crossings and participate in the some of the staff effort of preparing the application package and you said they agreed has there been any vote by any of those City councils you want to answer um um good morning Brian Freeman n staff director um I've had conversations with um city of Viro Beach and city of Sebastian staff and also there was some discussion at the no's technical advisory committee meeting which was on January 26 and so staff for both cities have indicated that there's a interest in both cities to uh Implement a countywide quiet Zone um Sebastian also indicated a preference for the the nighttime option um uh the ver Beach staff haven't really indicated a um preference for either all day or nighttime um but they have not taken any action yet at the city council level but they do um anticipate being you know on board with the process okay and fec's been using those rails for over 100 years is that right and they've been using their horns in Indie River County for over 100 years so Madam chair that's it for me all right commission you have any questions or comments yes and the last Point um as far as the nighttime horns nothing has changed nothing has changed as far as the usage of horns and I'm hearing from some constituents nearby the the the tracks that you know now with this addition I just want to clarify it with this addition that the nighttime horns they they're going through and they they've have attributed it to Bright line which is not the case those are freey trains that that we hear and have been sounding throughout the the time in which the trains began running on those tracks is that correct I think what he means is because bright line doesn't run at night right the do run late and they start early um I mean I think the first bright Line train passes through before 6:00 a.m. and and they do run their schedule goes past midnight there's like about a 5 hour window bright line doesn't operate at night they I think the first train out Orlando is like 4:30 in the morning I don't have their schedule in front of me but there is a a block of time where there is no passer trains operating I did have the slide of the train schedule but I did look at bright Lines schedule determined night and yeah I think the last train leaves Orlando at 10 10 p.m. or even later so there there are there are a few nighttime trains and just to clarify the federal government considers nighttime between 12 P excuse me 6 P p.m. and 6:00 a.m. it's a specific 12-hour block okay um as far as for Eric there we have uh three traffic lights that are uh intended for impation actually four four there's 21 in Bureau Beach also us one a half traffic signal it's southbound yeah but you're probably referring to the three and 41st 45th and 49th right so and they were intended to for January than February is is they're coming soon yes does that affect the safety assessment Factor no not not for the F ra consideration when we do the calculation it's strictly U data applies directly to the crossing such as vehicle traffic um number of traffic Lanes uh number train traffic uh accidents a few specific data points we calculate or consider and the the train operator motor has a discretion whether to utilize the horn or not so the the rule is written that they will they are not permitted to whistle the we say the routine sounding that is there is a specific Cadence which is the long long short long whistle pattern it's letter Q in Mor code actually there's a whole history of that but so the rule just prohibits them from doing that if in the rule also states that the engineer has the sole discretion to whistle and they list some you know not all but most uh reasons they do whistle people trespassing Vehicles oring crossing gates animal even say animals and then railroad operating rules also will be observed if they let's say FEC I don't know this for SEC for certain but if they say if there's a signal maintainer along the tracks the trains will whistle as they pass and that's a example of an operating role that they will have they still can observe now traveling uh south of us uh in into a quiet Zone they still utilize the horns I have heard the horns yes you will you will hear horns in the I personally heard the horns in a quiet zone right ABS yeah maybe perhaps not as frequently like I said it's just that routine whistle pattern where they whistle whether it's cars at the Crossing or not is the only thing the quiet Zone will eliminate by rule and like an engineer cannot just blow the horn because I feel like it at a Crossing they need a justification at that point and we've had instance where Engineers decide they were just going to whistle because they don't like quiet Zounds but that becomes regulatory which one of my jobs to enforce that where they can't just do that without proper justification and not go not going into the the reasons behind the incidents or uh unfortunate deaths uh of individuals uh whe whether they are trespasses or uh they intended on standing in front of a train or they were just trying to not have to walk a mile down the road to cut across so they went through uh and unfortunately their timing wasn't as Swift as the trains uh those incidents happen a lot more frequently in quiet zones is that correct I can't say for certain but they certainly still do happen well that I don't have a a stat of comparing to the whole us there's you know 200,000 Crossings in the United States and well we have we have I mean I would like some scientific assessment of it as opposed to just what we see on the screen in the evening because we do see them oh you're you're going to have instance in aone that's first loss just last week here right and but they are far just by the broadcast they are far more frequent down South we hear about them absolutely they do exist they happen quiet zones I think it's important to understand that a quiet zone or whistle ban is not a safety initiative it is a quality life issue the effort do not view a quiet zone is a safety Improvement is a degradation of the safety at a gray Crossing and if you have the subal safety measures such as four quadrant Gates you're still removing the train horn which is a safety feature of a Crossing so any no matter how you shake it you're reducing the safety of your Crossings in your community by putting a c Zone in place in addition um is is there a possibility that the gates uh again uh I served as a a deputy sheriff detective here in in rer county for many years and I can uh recount many instances where the gates failed Gates failed they are mechanical devices when they have failed what other mechanism does an individual have to know that the train is coming other than that light that's coming down the roadway at night I mean the railway at night what other fact that if we have a failed gate mechanism which does occur well the I not I'm not a signal equipment expert but the the crossing themselves are very robust there's multiple layers of safety and particularly with the bright line is utilizing the positive train control technology if there is a problem with the Crossing the locomotes are actually talking to the crossings uh wirelessly and will slow the trains down automatically if there's a failure in the system uh things like power failures The Crossings are designed to be fail safe they're actually the gates are actually held up by electrical power so if the power fails the gates are will drop to the closed position even if there's no power at all and these things do have battery backup for um I'm told 8 to 8 to 12 hours possibly depends how much use they get so even event of power failures they still can operate uh if there's anything mechanically wrong like I said they the gates are designed to drop down and stay down without any any input from anybody I could car that the uh most times the the gate failures were they were Dro they were closed right and we had to manually lift them up and await uh FC uh response to uh correct them right and then there's additional activation failure is actually a very specific term for the FR that can result in regulatory action against the railroads uh they have to actually self-report activation failures and there's a criteria what defines an activation failure and they can be subject to fines uh for not properly maintaining their equipment thank you thank you commissioner Airman yes ma'am what do we what is currently let's go let's go back a little bit let's go before bright line what with the freight trains do we we do we have we had just had quiet zones at night right is that correct or none at all for freight train none at all none at all so we never have had okay well we had a quiet Zone I believe for a couple years in the late 80s before the emergency I wasn't in Florida but based on the the historic research we had we believe the NIT train ban was in effect for a couple years before it was preed Ed by the federal regulations because I remember for years the the county has had many discussions over quiet zones horn train horns and stuff like that so so prior to prior to Bright line it was 24 hours the day they had to sign their Hornet every intersection they went by so it's been going on for quite a while that's what I was wondering the next thing that that that kind of puzzles me about this is that we spent prior to my being on the board and others is that we we we had a lawsuit spent $4 million to fight bright line we ended up getting $31 million in upgrades and it's almost like for safety reasons for all the the stories we've heard and everything's done I've been on in my career numerous train accidents here in an River County and and seen the best seen the worst of it but it's almost like now we're want to take it away some of that some of that safety feature that we fought so hard to get the gates to me from what I've see out there are working very well I think someone told me the other day they did have somebody run one of the gates and they just missed the the other Crossing arm car went through it so so people are still going to do that they're still going to try there's still going to be deaths there's still going to be accidents but it's almost like we're ask asking now to take away the safety aspect of having so many more trains on our tracks that we're actually looking to take away a safety component of of this U of the train and with bright line and the freight trains do I'm not necessarily I'm not necessarily opposed to quiet zones I don't know if I'm ready for 24-Hour a day quiet zones but I haven't really made up my mind on this that's why I was glad to hear we were making a presentation so hopefully it'll give us some some thought to think about this but I am I do think it's a little strange that that we're that we asked for so much with more trains on the track and we got it uh which was a win-win for any River County but now we're asking to take away one component of of safety I get it nighttime the trains are probably very irritating if you live near the track it it can be very irritating because they are very loud um I can remember I'll go way back when the old fire station was over where the post office is right now when I was a brand new fireman and the freight train would go by there every every couple of hours and we'd be the beds would would Shake in in the upstairs of the old fire station but that was many many years ago but the track was still right there and the trains were still running running so I haven't made up my mind on this yet as to as to what what Avenue I want to take I want to hear other Commissioners maybe hear some comments from the public what we want to do but I just I just feel it's kind of an odd situation that we're wanting to take away a a component that we fought so hard to get to have the trains be as safe as possible for any rer County we wouldn't to make them say now they're annoying so I I don't know I don't know if it's a winwin or no win situation so that's kind of where I'm at right now commissioner Moss uh thank you yeah I'm I'm not convinced that uh the quiet zones would be as safe and evidently there are no statistics that would compare the the two options quiet zones versus allowing trains to use horns and as has been pointed out we have a long history of trains in this County uh with horns and actually I grew up up as a kid we didn't live far from the track so I it's like personally um I don't have a problem with it but that's the that the issue is safety and like I said I'm just not convinced that it will be as safe to have signs that say no train horn um especially at night I mean you know you're relying on people coming approaching an intersection to be reading signs and um I just I just don't I don't see that happening I mean just driving around the county and the the increase in the number of just traffic accidents we have had and we've seen and we've all seen it you know and we've all heard about it all the the increase in traffic accidents I don't see um I don't see relying on people to read a sign that says no train horn um that that you know that that's meaningful I don't I I don't think it is but thank you I appreciate the information and it's it's certainly something to consider uh I evidently that's what Martin County is doing um are you able to say a little bit more about that and what their comments might have been I I saw that it's it said that they're waiting one year is that correct far as Martin County publicly stated is that they're going to wait one year before they begin any kind of a establishment of a quiet Zone they have not pursued any element of a quiet Zone at this time but they've have like I said they've gone on record saying they're going to wait one year before they decide so are they waiting then for statistics to become available comparing quiet zones to could be safety I'm excuse I'm sorry horn the uh we as for the eort we did recommend to the communities to wait a little bit let people adjust to the trains and especially Florida we have a unique seasonal uh population here a little bit in the in the winter that will come from another part of the country and all a sudden there's more trains they weren't here La literally last year and getting through this cycle the first year might be important to helping people become more aware of the additional train traffic and constraint is also going much faster than the freight trains have historically yeah thank you yes bill um enforcement you said something about if we do enact the quiet zones and you have a new engineer something like that who does sound the horns at the during the quiet time era during the quiet times who enforces that what type of complaint do you you receive or what do you do so the the quiet Zone the Public Authority has a point of contact like Eric for example might might would officially be the point of contact they might have a staff person delegated out if a citizen of the county calls complaints to the to the traffic engineering office they can literally would call me directly I'm actually the guy that writes the checks uh and we would go directly to the railroad and find out what the problem is if historically my experience doing this for last several years these instan of quet Zone violations have been for accepted reasons where there's an incident accident something was broken train railroad maintenance was ongoing and and so it's not that's not a problem that we do get the complaints and people don't always know what's going on and they are they're investigated if we do find the railroad non- compliant they're subject to fines under the federal regulations commissioner did you have something on real quick um and in fact we did have two incidents in the last week where people were trying to drive around the gates that were down so that's not that's not going to change human nature at some point we have to take personal responsibility when we're driving and doing other things but you did mention that the quiet zone of horns is a degreg of safety that's what you said removing the horns as a so why as a community would we want to uh degrate the safety of our residents by removing horns that have been going on for years and years and decades my personally wouldn't do it if I was a member of this community uh but I am I'm not here to decide what's good for you I'm just here to help you and I I appreciate I appreciate your help so I mean I've been around railroads my entire life I'm a second generation Railroader personally and I mean I like train horns I I i' I've would used to be law enforcement I was a raal police officer for nine years I cleaned up a lot of train accidents at Great Crossings I think three of us have up here so there it it's I I understand people's concerns they live near train tracks they do get they are loud they're very loud and they you know they want their their quality life and it's hard to argue against but the safety for me is more important personally right and we've all we've heard that and uh commissioner man and I and I guess the others have gotten uh you know email complaints about the about the horns uh and I would hope that in the next few months that somehow we get acclimated to them I'm too m less than a mile from the train tracks I hear them all the time but I guess I'm immune to them so but thank you for being here sir you're welcome and um there was a com about the stats there there are lots and lots of stats F meticulously tracks pretty much all things railroad stats what the stats wouldn't show is how a Quon would affect this community versus there was or not one um I could show you stats for there was a quone or there is a quone than was before but it wouldn't really correlate to these C every unique it seems like and it's hard to say okay over here they had no accidents increases but you know they don't run 53 trains a day in that Community they run five so it it's we can show you car accidents stat per Crossing and Crossing configurations but it's it's you know you're if you're an urban County Suburban County you're going to have incidents unfortunately and another option wasn't part of the presentation is because it's not technically part of quiet zones the an option is uh gray Crossing closure and separation and currently the federal government are the by berson infrastructure law has several grants available for communities like this to get funding from the federal government to build overpasses and close Crossings permanently and that's an 80% funding uh requirement or we the target will pay 80% of that so if the county wants to pursue something like that we're also here to help you with that but that is a competitive Grant process I was just going to say I think staff is asking for some Direction on whether we want them to continue exploring quiet zones or that process or or not that was kind of what the last slide said correct so I don't it's a presentation and we don't necessarily need to take a vote but I do think that some feedback or consensus to staff on what we want them to do or not do is is kind of the the request being made so we need a consensus uh Madam chair I would suggest that uh that this issue be resolved today and staff needs no longer to go forward uh this is a public safety issue and as commissioner man said we're taking away and commissioner Moss we're taking away a level of safety uh and to me I I couldn't go along with it even it went uh to a about I will will agree uh commissioner Sheriff um and once again uh we we're looking at compromising you said derating from the safety element and uh again not placing you in the deciding mode but you said you would not do it if you were in the capacity of that decision correct uh more or less I I've experience though I mean I've been receiving the bad stuff but great Crossing so I just had one other question um and maybe you can Enlighten you said the the federal real system has a a very strict Direction on the horns you talking about like the use usage of horns the decb yes and but uh when the word Direction no uh I understand I just became aware that there is a type of horn that goes forward but not uh you refering to a ways side horn side sound yes yeah Wayside horns are a actually an option they are can be implemented or without a quiet Zone they are a alternative to train horns and in a basic nutshell Wayside horn is a device that's physically mounted at the Crossing we're talking actual like speaker system that will play a intention getting tone supposed to hearing a train horn at at the Crossing in Li of the train horn uh it does the same whistle pattern uh it also does the same deciel level level but instead of having a train horn M on a Locomo moving through your community the noise is loc local to the crossing uh so if you basically getting a train horn blasted in your face if you're standing at a curry Crossing and the one of the big differen is the the tone is not as pleasant train horns are actually music notes if anybody do that but the Wayside horn systems are the ones I have seen and Ed are uh grating I think that's the word I would use to listen to Grating the yeah it's it's the gets your attention they're almost like an alarm more of a train than a horn and the way they're designed they keep doing the whistle Cadence until the train occupies the crossing they don't have any kind of u a compensation for the train speed so the train is going 50 and it slows down that things it keep honking and bonking at you so they can actually make more noise but and also those devices are maintained as Highway devices they're not part of the grade crossing so uh the Public Authority of that road has to maintain all that equipment as opposed to grade crossing equipment is maintained by railroads there is an interconnection between the railroad and that device but the railroad just sends you a signal and you maintain your your stuff yourself in your opinion would that be a benefit to the the folks that are looking at the quality of life as opposed to Life Safety there would there be a benefit in exploring it appealing moving to well I would I wouldn't tell you not to explore something uh or tell you how to manage your Crossings the the the Train the Wayside horn is just an option and they're not very popular I can say I've personally come across about a half dozen in my career with the railroads and the federal government prior to actual railroad employment they're just not a big demand for them and like I said they're they're kind of a odd tradeoff you don't lose the train horn noise you just don't have it cascading through the through the the quarter mile approach The Crossing it's now being blasted directly at you at the Crossing they're literally just like giant outdoor speakers mounted on a pole sounds like there's there's a lot of unknowns and the cause factor and willingness for yeah you're now you're you're basically paying for the train horn instead of the RO paying for its own horn in a sense so like I said it's just an option and you can use way side horns in a quiet zone or independent of a quiet zone so they're just like one Crossing it's really like hey you want to minimize the noise just to the crossing and not have it the trains passing through our neighborhood whistling that's where they come into play we see them benefit of Life benefit of I mean that's a subjective answer I couldn't really give you a good answer no I don't think they really help thank you then I then I I I do concur that uh I I am not uh looking forward to compromising the element of Life Safety uh in anywh of County at this juncture that's not to say that it's over but today I I I think staff has far more other things to do we still need those traffic lights um okay it's still to me an imperal situation yeah we're yeah we're we're constantly reminding brightland they need to get them in so um it doesn't sound like there's support to move forward with quiet zones at this time um would that preclude the city of Sebastian or Vera Beach from moving forward with them independently if they decided they wanted to do that no they can they can establish independ they could establish them within the only count the only issue is that minimum distance okay if their acqu with capture or crossing that they don't have control over and they can't get an agreement that could preclude them that's the only circumstance like it was a County Road and City Road and then um per the settlement agreement all the upgrades to to those um Crossings were done so we I mean based on your presentation we wouldn't have to do any upgrades to Crossings to do a quiet zone so if somebody wanted to bring this back in the future or if situations changed or whatnot that is still an option correct yeah uh going back to the cities establishing quiet zones with the county Crossings inter Municipal boundaries the cities by Statute have some Traffic Control Authority on County Roads so they could even if the county weree to object they could install the signs themselves in their boundaries okay all right um yes where are the two hybrid Crossings 16 17th Street and 53rd yep 53rd Street so those would take longer for application and everything else those are the ASM Crossings so the with the remember into the technical establishment of quet Zone there are supplemental safety measures which are used to calculate the risk reduction at our Crossing such as a four quadrant gate I believe it's the federal government considers an 82% reduction in Risk I'm not quite sure I've top my if that's the right number um if there there's only a set few ssms four quadrant Gates mediums with certain criterias are another one a one-way street is considered a safety measure if you have something like a median like a we call a three quadrant gate uh by itself we would not give any credit for that and a community can apply for we call alternative safety measure which now you're making application to the F for quone as opposed to self- establishing which is what the current plan is and that would require us to do an analysis of the crossing but at this point with the amount of Crossings you have like four quing Gates already you're already well below the threshold even if we had a large error margin in our data input it wouldn't it would wouldn't be a factor they they they do have a safety impact but as far as our calculator is concerned we wouldn't consider that all right um well I think that provides you the direction that you need okay wonderful thank you thank you for being here welcome all right and with that Commissioners we're going to take a five minute recess but this group all right I'm going to go ahead and call the meeting back to order Commissioners uh we don't typically take public input on presentation items um but I do understand there's one gentleman that did want to say something so sir if you'd like to come up uh thank you very much for taking my time for this um the question I have and I I would like to address I I really don't understand how you do not want a quiet zone for anybody who's living anywhere near the tracks uh to my opinion I've been here for 5 years now now and this is the worst year I have ever understood and actually it's to the point right now is it's actually my welfare I honestly feel at sleeping at night for a horn to go off at 2 o'clock in the morning and that's all you're hearing is a horn constantly I don't see how that's safety for anybody I think if you really look into it and there's a reason why like you're saying that uh if I'm correct now west pal has already passed the quiet Zone on this there there's got to be a reason why they basically went with that and I think you guys should really look and excuse me women should really look at a quality of life with people here and I don't think you really were are taking that into effect at least it seems to me right now the little feedback I got from here that none of you want to have this whatsoever which I am more than shocked that none of you people want to have any sort of quality of life here in veral Beach I'm very surprised at this uh and I would hope you would at least consider at least the nighttime ban on a quiet Zone and that's basically all I have to say uh thank you very much for your time and I'm really hope that you guys look into this again and do something with it thank you very much thank you have a good day now thank you all right with that Commissioners our next item is approval of the minutes we have the minutes from the regular meeting of December 5th and December 12th M chair move approval both all right I'll second that all in favor opposed motion carries and there is a few informational items congratulations to the clerk's office on their annual certificate of excellence for their financial reports with that we'll move on to the consent agenda commissioner is anybody wishing to pull anything from consent anybody from the public wishing to pull anything from consent seeing none Commissioners appr all right I have a motion by commissioner Erman with a second by commissioner lore all in favor oppose motion carries and with that uh we will move on to commissioner erman's item 14 C1 commissioner Ean thank you madam chairman uh this is a project that was uh brought to me by the uh sunshine rotary club and I didn't know this but it was also brought to commissioner Moss before but uh somehow it got got lost in the shuffle with all the things we have going on but but here and that's here and or there now but it's a project called drown zero and it it's it's similar to what um you see the coastal connections folks and all that stuff do with the with the U garbage things where they put up the the polls and the signs and and what the why and therefore and whatnot of how we're doing the garbage collection this is a life-saving measure uh called drown zero and what they do is they put up a post with a sign on it a different locations throughout County uh County beaches and it has a LIF ring on it an inner tube on it say if it's a you know the the the lifeguard's busy or it's unguarded at the time for some reason or or whatever the case may be or on any part that maybe's not not guarded these Rings will be there for somebody that's caught in a a rip tide or or or or something else happens where somebody out there on the beach can also assist by by throwing a life ring but I do have some members here from the sunshine roer Club Justin the fber and U okay and I'm gonna let them talk about it this their project and and and and I I support it I think it's a great thing that we should move on welcome well thank you folks we appreciate you having us here so this program was born out of a a rotarian in Coco Beach he was also retired he is also a retired lifeguard a friend of his who was also a lifeguard uh was walking the beach one evening with his wife in Coco Beach and they noticed a someone drowning and so what he did was he jumped he uh first looked around the report from his wife says he looked around for a floatation device when you're lifeguard you never go into the water to save somebody without something to float yourself and that person so he looked around for a cooler piece of debris that might be sitting on the beach nothing was there jumped in to save this person's life and uh he ended up drowning so we also have a member of our club Kyle Castle who just last year witnessed a drowning in Vero Beach he jumped into the water and saved the person and thankfully he was okay everybody turned out okay in that situation so what this is is a a poll that we would provide we would maintain and take care of we just need permission to install these polls not only at our public beaches we're going to try to put them at the private beaches we'd like to cover the entire Indian River County we'd also like to do say like the public boat ramps um there's the canoe launch on 512 um we'd like to put them there anywhere there's a body water where there's a possibility of someone drowning it's a win-win we're just providing a a way for somebody to Save a Life and have a flation device there available as well when I was in Ireland this they maintain and they replace them if if it's if the ring is used or lost or stolen or deteriorated y'all y'all replace them absolutely so we will do all the maintenance and upkeep we'll check them on a weekly basis um sometimes at High season we we'll be checking them on a daily basis to make sure those things are available right now there is no GPS uh there's a tamper ring which is a small device when you pull it off it it's not easy to pull it off obviously you'd have to be in a life-saving situation to rip the buoy off of the pole um it happens they get tampered with we would be the ones checking them out so our permission is not only to install them but then to maintain them uh at our cost and so what we do is we find sponsors to sponsor these polls so there's a small sign on it or a plaque that says somebody it might be a family member of someone who drowned um that sponsors this thing um so we we incur all the cost of maintaining and sponsoring these or maintaining and installing wow all right there's really not much of a loss we just don't want to go install them without permission sure Mike what's the process for this to happen that's what well we were just asked to collaborate with our ocean rescue division our parks and recck division for you know appropriate placement and um just come to an understanding of where they're going to go and um I want to thank uh both commissioner moss and commissioner man for bringing this to our attention a few months ago and um with the board's Direction we'll um explore that and if there's any reason why it can't proceed or has an issue that you all need to present solv for us we'll bring it back but I I see it as as a win-win as you say thank you all right any other questions thank you this this this is a fantastic idea awesome we thought so when it was presented to our club and we thought why aren't we doing this and why isn't there one at every body of water so we we look forward to doing it I want to ask you one other question sure what is the cost to sponsor a location 500 bucks annually so one poll is 500 00 annually there's not really a set cost in Coco Beach they have these on the beaches spread out all over the place now they've figured that their regular cost of maintenance is about 500 bucks to replace the ring typically on an annual the sun eats it up and so you have to make sure it's there and just to go out and maintain them it's about $500 per ring I believe these are in Bard beaches all the Bard beaches have it Bard County I can't speak for all of Bard County the program started in C Beach so um obviously it's there um but as far as getting it approved there are some places that uh have hesitated to approve this one for the maintenance of them what if the ring is there and it's what if the ring is missing from the pole um you know there there we understand the issues that can also arise from not maintaining the life-saving devices when they're out um but the reality is if somebody grabs the PO and or grabs the life life saving device the life ring and runs off with it and something happens that day obviously we miss the opportunity to provide a ring uh if we go there two days later and put a new ring on it uh the opportunity still exists for someone to save a life so is there a problem with you know maybe not having it available if the pole exists yes but 90% of the time or more the Ring's going to be there to save somebody's life I think it's a good program it's worth worthwhile doing and and I don't know if y'all had a time to watch the little video and stuff they explained it but but it still pretty pretty much self-explained it but Justin's done a great job of of covering everything so that Madam chairman leson I'll make a motion to approve I'll second it all right there's a motion by commissioner irman with a second by commissioner Moss all in favor I opposed motion Carri thank you very much we appreciate it get with I do have a representative from our ocean rescue division here Jonathan off today but Chris we can just introduce you right now if you'd like so you perfect thank you guys have a great day all right with that we will move on to public hearings our first our dear Lord our first public hearing is 10 A1 a county initiated request to amend the 5-year Capital Improvement program and the capital Improvement El elent of the comprehensive plan for the period of fiscal year 2324 through 2728 welcome Mr Balter good morning Commissioners Chris Balter chief of longrange planning yep all right today before you we have the county initiated request to amend the capital Improvement mement element the cie of the comprehensive plan the purpose of the comprehensive plan text amendment is to recognize the changes in the existing and future public facility needs and changes in funding it's to comply with the yearly cie update requirement of state law and County comprehensive plan policy the CI adoption process files a little bit different of adoption process than the state standard process um it requires only one public hearing and no planning and zoning commission review and it doesn't have to go before the state agenc highlighted changes the updated existing Revenue information and the updated Revenue projections the updated appendix a in River County 5-year schedule of Capital Improvements the CIP and the updated and revised all tables figures and corresponding texts so this year's CIP is for 20232 24 to 2027 28 the total 5year CIP expenditures increased only by 3% which which is pretty incredible especially with the rising cost of inflation and all the project costs so that's really good that we kept it down um the new Total is 489 m156 the projected revenues will match the projected expenses level of service standards will be maintained and as is always in all of the C in the past the transportation is the largest category of total expenditures which is 40.7% here's a list of the actual 5-year Capital Improvements plan it breaks down all the expenditures for each category and then the total at the end so a big thing was to use the 1-cent local option sales tax for 20% of the proceeds for the first five years of extending the 1-cent local option sales tax to Lagoon related projects so the proposed 5year Capital Improvement plan allocates more than 20% of project one cent local option sales tax revenue to Lagoon related projects during 2023 24 to 2027 28 so here's a list of some of the projects I didn't list all all of them but here are the most notable ones the north Sebastian Highlands and West wabaso sewer flavor and Shores septic to Sewer North Indy County Drive storm water treatment improvements Indi River Lagoon Greenway boardwalk and Wetland restoration and replanning L tree Island restoration and replanning uh Captain Foresters renovation and improvements prange Island improvements and the north excuse me North relief Canal treatment system and storm water Mar projects and Lagoon treatment system the summary increased forecasted Revenue the project time frames extended and project costs modified the level of service standards are maintained 20% of the one-cent local option sales tax and years 1 2 3 4 and five allocated to Lagoon related projects the cie is consistent with the comprehensive plan and the cie is financially financially feasible recommendation board accounting Commissioners approves the updated to the 5-year Capital Improvements program for the period of FY 2023 24 to 2027 28 and supporting data analysis of the Capital Improvements element cie of the comprehensive plan by adopting the proposed ordinance that being being said I'd be happy to answer any questions you guys may have all right Commissioners are there any questions of staff at this time on the CIP I would just agree that this is shows a pretty strong you know Financial stamps by the county and you're right that 3% it's probably a pretty good deal this to come through uh over this past year or so with everything I'm I'm very pleased with it all right well if there's no questions of Staff we will open the public hearing anybody from the public wishing to speak on this item please come to the podium and state your name and address for the record and seeing none we'll close the public hearing um it looks like we're going to have a lot of projects moving forward the next couple years there is um quite a few quite a few things that I know we've been anxiously awaiting so I'm I'm happy to see that you know as the five years moves on it gets close Clos and closer to happening so that's a secret in government but with that Commissioners what is your pleasure I have a motion by commissioner flesher with a second by commissioner Ean all in favor opposed motion carries than you are you doing the next one too I will be sitting up here for the next one all right next public hearing is consideration of an ordinance of Indie miver County Florida amending the zoning ordinance and the accompanying zoning map for plus 6513 Acres from A1 agricultural 1 District to rm6 multi multifam residential district this is a clausi Judicial hearing so let me get out my little cheat sheet um all right Commissioners this is a quad judicial hearing so we need to go through our question have any of you guys I would ask you guys to disclose any exper communication site visits or independent investigations commissioner lure have not commissioner flesher none that aware of none that I'm aware of none um I have the it's not really exporte um in the true sense of the term but I have the draft minutes of the uh Planning and Zoning commission meeting for January 11th having to do with this matter and also the a copy of the traffic study by Mills uh short and Associates which was received by the in County building department on November 1st of 2023 because I I think it's important to know what Planning and Zoning um you know what questions might have come up during that period of time that it was reviewed and also to take a look at the traffic study so I have both of those things which I obtained yesterday um because I I asked my uh Planning and Zoning appointee if he had any comments on this and he did not have any comments all right bill will she need to provide that to the clerk yes it's yeah it's okay public yeah all right next please confirm that you have an open mind and are able to base your decision on the evidence pres presented in applicable applicable I cannot speak today applicable law commissioner Moss can and will can and will can and will I can and will can and will all right at this time we'll open the public hearing and ask the clerk to swear in all Witnesses collectively anybody speaking on this item in any way shape or form please stand and be sworn in do you swear or affirm to tell the truth and nothing but the truth fantastic with that we will start off by presentation by County staff welcome good morning board for the record I'm Cindy Thurman senior planner long range planning for your consideration there a reason your request for Riverfront grows Incorporated from A1 to rm6 the overall property is approximately 116 Acres however almost 51 Acres lies outside of the County's urban service boundary only the area area within the urban service boundary is requested to be rezoned which is about 65 acres sorry uh the land uses in this area include commercial manufacturing light industrial Agricultural and the Verona tray residential subdivision currently developed at 4.5 units per acre the rm6 zoning district is established to the south east and of the subject property sorry here's the zoning map the arm six zoning district is established to the south and east of the subject's property here in the brown you can see here that the property the subject property in yellow I don't have a mouse is B furiated or split in half by the urban service boundary we're only here to consider the rezoning of the area in blue the area in green on the other side of the urban service boundary is not subject to this request here we have the future land use map you can see that this area that is under the resoning is consistently designated as M1 M1 is our medium density residential look at the area shows that this is consistently designated on this area on the east side of I95 A1 agricultural District this is the existing zoning it's designated for agricultural aquer Aquifer recharge area and conservation uses intended to provide for residential uses at a very low density requires non-urban location primarily devoted to agricultural activities down here is a snap SN shot of the two side by side the A1 and the rm6 you can see that there are differences in the zoning classification side by side rbo zoning rm6 is a multifamily district designated for medium density multif family residential development ensures adequate public facilities to meet the needs of residents provides a varied and diverse housing Supply as we mentioned before when we saw the future Lane use map this area is designated as N1 future Lane use area this is intended to provide for development of residential uses with medium density densities up to 8 units per acre the existing N1 future land use designation is consistent with the rm6 requested zoning District so there is no future Lan use designation change requested as part of this request I will point out that although the n one future Lanes designation would allow up to eight units per acre the rm6 requested zoning will only allow six the existing A1 zoning district is at a density of one unit per five acres so there is a significant difference there every rezoning requires us to analyze everything against the review criteria in chapter 90212 subsection 3 items a through K so is it in conflict with any applicable portion of the land develop regulations because of this property's location next to the urban service boundary the proximity does provide for buffers in the Land Development regulations consistent with the elements of the comprehensive plan future land use element objective policies 1.13 and policy 1.43 it meets the criteria of that this request is considered consistent with the existing proposed land use since as I mentioned they're not requesting or need a change in the land use is it in compliance with the adopted County thof plan there is main access from this site from 98th Avenue and it does have access from 102nd Avenue as 102nd Street uh generate traffic which to decrease level of service as adopted all roadway segments within the area levels of influence would operate at an acceptable level of service under the proposed rm6 zoning and we'll get back to this in a minute but we did receive a traffic study which is part of the record F subject to change conditions which ex exist that warrants and Amendment the rm6 zoning district is established in the area uh the current A1 zoning designation limits the applicant to one unit per five acres while The futured Landings designation on the property allows up to eight units per acre so there is has been a significant change as there has been land use decisions made item G would decrease levels of Service established for sanitary sewer pable water Solid Waste drainage and Recreation the applicant is made they move forward with development will have to provide the connection customary fees and again they are in with that in the urban service boundary area however I want you to see that as we look at every rezoning section 910 07 of Land Development regulations require that everything that comes in for a resoning request require conditional concurrency review that requires us to review everything based on the most intense use so you can see here that the most intense use under the existing zoning would be 13 single family units across the 65 acres because it's it's one unit for every five acres as the most intent under proposed we would be looking at 360 multifam units as it is one unit per as it was up to one unit six units per acre sorry I'm a little Tongue Tied this morning I apologize I app I can appreciate that tongue tied all day to go through okay so as we move on would this request result in a significant asour impact on natural environment no adverse impacts in the site or not anticipated this was an agricultural site in the past does it result in orological development pattern as I stated uh the land use is established rm6 is already established in the area we do believe this has result in a logical uh surrounding land use and orderly development pattern is it in conflict with the public interest is in harmony uh it is in harmony with and would result with the intent of the Land Development regulations and are there any other matters that may be deemed inappropriate in reviewing in consideration proposed amendments such as police protective fire again all of those things are in line as it is within the urban service boundary I just wanted to also mention here there have been concerns about Transportation improvements this is an area that has been subject to several rezonings and several uh developments and many many questions so staff is very highly aware we are very much working as a team Transportation improvements are ongoing and as developments are constructed usually in phases uh we bring these scheduled improvements online and we make sure that they fit together like puzzle pieces uh Venetian grow has scheduled improvements U they are yet to be constructed uh these do include these that I've mentioned here northbound right turn lane on 98 that's St with 60 additional westbound turn left turn lane at 60 at 98 additional Southbound rece Lane on 98th Avenue and that of course is at the main Corridor to the north but you can see here on the map these are also you know here's the subject property I've I've uh labeled but we have Verona Trace they're developed at 4.5 units breaker Nishan grow with these promised traffic improvements but we also have retreated Citrus with Citrus retreated Citrus R and correct me if I'm wrong because we do not have a number of units yet so we do have in mind we do know that there are definitely going to be developer motivated and traffic you know improvements in the future in that area so I'll move to the next one so in conclusion requested arms exilian District we do find it compatible the surrounding area consistent with the goals objectives and policies of the County's adoptive commer plan it's consistent with the County's Land Development regulations it is deemed suitable for arms zoning to further meet the needs of the residents with the diverse en varied housing Supply in the area staff can support this request planning zoning recommended UNS approval at the January 11th 2024 meeting and staff in the planning zoning recommend that the board of County Commissioners approve this request to rezone the subject property from A1 to rm6 and if you have any further questions we're available sure I have um it's not necessarily specific to this project but just like a conceptual question question if you have a future land use designation and you're moving um you're asking for a rezoning to become compatible with your future land use designation what are um I guess maybe speak to what that what the point of having a future landice designation is on a higher level like not specific to this project I would say that your future L designation is what your ultimate picture is of how you want your your county to grow it is not necessarily an ultimate maximum you know it's not like you want to say this is you know this is our max out our ultimate idea it isn't is a painted picture of what you would might like to see there but it isn't maybe a ultimate a ultimate density if that's where you're going yeah so years ago in some kind of planning visioning process us the county and and staff came up with a future land use map which kind of puts in certain areas the growth and where people would like to see it around like the interstate you have commercial industrial um as you go away you have maybe multifam into single family residential and that kind of stuff so it gives you an idea of what would and would not be acceptable in the future yes and like for instance with the the M1 and the M2 to the medium density futureed land use levels it speaks about those being you know medium density residential close to areas for shopping and in transportation schools you know private you know service service areas for you know residential for people that have services and then within each future land use designation there's multiple zoning um categories that might fall into that designation and when you move from like in this case a to something that's more compatible with the future land use designation you can kind of choose within that M1 like in this case we're they're asking for rm6 but M1 also included up to eight units correct so you have some room within that depending on what the project is corre um I just think it's important that we understand that this is not an area that was not ever anticipated to be developed and that there is a future land use designation um this and we have seen that starting to be taken advantage of with the other projects and the surrounding area that that you called out I also think it's important and I appreciate you saying this that we all of these things happen in phases and each development is not in its own black hole siloed void there are requirements that each development has to do as far as Service delivery and infrastructure and as they are phased in you see you might not see it in the first one but by the time you get to the second and the third one you start seeing that base being built out so some of the impacts that were anticipated which I'm assuming is the whole reason you go through a future land use map process can be taken into account as these things happen right corre I mean okay yeah and I'll just add that's I mean that's a very good point here in that we consider the A1 zoning District in this area like a placeholder zoning um when that future land use was map was established We Knew by State Road 60 and '95 someday there would be a demand for residential development however at the time we had active egg so at some point that egg is no longer active and and it we knew this was happening so this is falling in line with what we knew years ago here's thing sometimes when we see a lot of development happening especially from a to something like this you 13 units to like 390 units that seems very shocking but there's there's steps in the process and there's planning that has happened ahead of time and all these different documents whether it's the current zoning future land use ldrs I mean they all work together to make sure that it happens the way it's it's not hodgepodge I guess is my point so I appreciate that and I just wanted some clarification so thank you Commissioners questions staff yes commissioner Moss um I have a question this is on the backup material that was supplied uh and this is under item G on page five it says uh if approved resoning does not guarantee any vested rights to receive water and wastewater treatment service um could you elaborate on that please are you saying in the yeah I I can read it again if approved uh resoning does not not guarantee any vested rights to receive water and wastewater treatment service and that's on on page five on page five of which document I'm sorry what which document the materials that we have yeah that were uploaded to the website thank you no no it's the staff report that's everybody has it he just he's just pulling it up give him a second I just needed to know which document that way I had it I have it right now so the vested rights for utilities so until they actually pay for a utility connection which would be a service agreement between us then they will actually receive the rights to have water and sewer availability so do we do we know at this point um what kind of what amount of water would be required we would be the provider then so it would it would be County Water and do we know that we are would be able to supply this number of households so there is not a level of service issue at this area um when the project specifically comes in usually it's much less than what's actually proposed by the time all the roads and infrastructure goes in so 390 is what it's maximally Pro proposed for but generally it's going to be less than that so that's why during the process of actually site plan and goes through the either subdivision approval or whether it goes you know there's many Avenues it can go through but during that process that's when we actually do our concurrency review and level of service analysis um like I said before there's no issue with level of service out there currently uh there may have to be some extensions of some existing lines that are up by State Road 60 uh but that's generally done with every type of development the developer pays to extend those services and and what would be the case with uh sewer is that a similar situation that the lines uh would be installed would that be part of the agreement correct with a developer most likely okay and um the other question I had was from the uh traffic study and that has presumably you've seen it and that's was done by McKenzie engineering and planning and evidently uh five different routes were studied and the only one that would be a problem and this is longterm this is on page 10 and it's under longterm for 2045 I was just curious um and it it says I'll just it's one sentence so I'll read it it says uh based on the analysis uh State Road 60 from 98th Avenue to I 95 is projected to exceed the generalized service volumes in the background for 2045 and total traffic 2045 conditions so that's 20 years from now do we have um and I know you're following it right now because there are other developments uh nearby but what I'm asking is do we have a mechanism when we know something like this or when it's expected or predicted um by this uh engineering firm that there will be an issue you know 20 years out do we have a mechanism for uh following it um or or do we check it at certain intervals you know if you can if you can tell me you know sure what we do how we handle that we have a concurrency review process that goes through so every time a rezoning is done doesn't mean that those trips are vested yet so until the actual project is approved that's when that those trips are vested then when they're built depending on what because traffic is ever changing and there's additional trips that are on the roadway not just from the new neighborhoods but from surrounding areas as well and there's also Capital project uh Capital Improvement projects that are brought on and turned online as well whether it be widening or you know change in uh timing on blights it changes the uh traffic patterns and and traffic availability in the area so in that process every item that gets vested on those roads gets looked at so once it's vested it's accounted for and then every time a new neighborhood comes in there will be another traffic study that's done after this so let's say this this project moves forward and goes to site planning there'll be another traffic study or an update to this traffic study for any of the changes that has happened around the area because certain as certain projects turn online they get accounted for those trips so there may be at that time when this project actually comes online there may be additional improvements that are needed or additional turn Lanes or some there may be a signal warn analysis that comes up during that process so that's how each one is tracked there's an individual a traffic study is just a snapshot in time and then we go and look at that snapshot periodically through every single um project turning online as well as they're getting uh relative data from the county on traffic counts and any improve improvements that we've done okay thank you you're welcome thank you other questions of Staff I'll just note that I'm sorry go ahead and then just got I got I'll just note that we're reaching the uh the edge of the Uso and we have obviously commissioned a study on the Uso so I think this is a example uh that that study will show as well commissioner a thank you m chairman good conversation what you talked about the future land use map I think that was that was perfect and good question by that and they kind of both answered what my comments are going to be is that is that U with the fact of of this proposal and the other ones that have already been approved on the one map that you showed I I too am concerned about the impact of traffic especially on 9th Avenue because that's the much better road to access versus second out there so I just want to make sure that that that that we as the county are are making sure that that it can support the future growth around the Verona Trace area because I know it's busy already now and we may want to look at other Avenue the right word to say I guess I know you can't cross 95 except at Oslo but to get back to 60 to go to Oslo we need I think we really need to take take a hard look at at our at our traffic that there which which you described very well Chris but um that that's that's my only concern is is 10 years from now when then when these are done is 998th Avenue backed up especially trying to get on 60 in that area so that would be my that would be my only concern with this okay duy noted um go back to my cheat sheet all right so if there's no other questions for staff at this time we will now have a presentation by the applicant welcome thank you madam chair members of the commission my name is Pete Sweeney with the firm of block and scarp on behalf of the applicant um first of all let me compliment staff uh they've done an excellent job Andy and Chris Cindy everybody very very good job and I just wanted to reiterate two things as was brought up by the chair IND county has a very sophisticated planning process and that should be noted and and why I say that is you've got at least three levels of scrutiny that come before either this commission or staff or both starting with the future land use map and that's part of your comprehensive plan and in this late 70s early 80s when the growth management Act was created in Florida to give some growth orientation throughout the State of Florida virtually everybody had to create a comprehensive plan and so that's your large starting br broad brush and I analogize this at the Planning and Zoning Commission meeting commissioner Moss to sort of your brands of cars right you would have a Ford or you might have a Toyota and then within that so that's your future land use and that's why you have agricultural you have commercial or light industrial and then within that you have zoning so you have makes and models right and and that's why you have again within the M1 future land use you do have A1 as a zoning but you also have r M six and those are completely accepted as compatible uses within that I should also say everything gets a zoning at the outset so zoning is not always been in the history of Florida and when the growth management Act was essentially forced on us by the state roughly 50 60 years ago you had to give a zoning and a future land use to every parcel within the county and certainly historically it made sense that western part of the county particularly west of 95 would have agricultural that just makes sense but the fact is it's no longer a working agricultural facility and it's almost out of compliance with that zoning because then within zonings and it goes back to the question that the vice chair asked about when you come in for site plan or commissioner Moss about traffic it thing gets even more specific and in this case we're talking about potentially residential development multif family development that's when we'd be coming in and applying for what we actually want to build the configuration the utilities the internal access uh Ingress and egress provision for fire safety all of that but you started a very wide funnel and you move your way down but I certainly want to remind and and appreciate the fact that my client owns roughly 116 117 Acres but we've only come in recognizing that we're bifurcated by the urban Services boundary and that's really important from our perspective as well as I believe the counties we're working in conjunction with the rules that you've established you have placed the urban Services boundary where it is literally in the middle of our property and if you look down below us at Verona Trace which is built out similarly situated the idea being that you as the county over 40 years ago set that policy in place and we're now fulfilling that we're infilling to where utilities have been designated to be provided certainly it is a cost on behalf of any development to connect to those but the idea is that's what you have told any developer any land owner if you're inside there that's where we want you to build because that's where we've designated for those available resources and the point again about the traffic studies um we appreciate the requirements but we have to come come in on a conceptual level and I appreciate staff reiterating pragmatically and appropriately that although that has to be the highest level we have to demonstrate in our conceptual traffic report our Tia the pragmatic approach is that most Things Fall below that for many reasons you have storm router storm water infrastructure that you have to meet we have roads and sidewalks we have green space so this is not the Empire State Building being built west of 95 with zero lot line and no availability you are typically going to have less density than that but this process as you've outlined is what we've followed and respectfully we hope and believe it makes a lot of sense to infill within the urban Services boundary this particular project so if you have any questions I have our engineer record our traffic consultant here with me as well as our owner Representatives but we respectfully ask for support on this project thank you thank you Commissioners questions of the applicant thank you all right thank you with that we will take any input from the public anybody from the public wishing to speak on this item please come to the podium and state your name and address for the record welcome Mr Paladin good morning chairman and commissioner and ladies and gentlemen I'm Joseph Paladin I'm president of Black Swan Consulting I'm also chairman of in neighbor Association land use committee also vice president of the executive board I spoke in favor of this project at pnz uh I'm very familiar with and I further I'm going to continue to speak in support of this project so I support this project thank you thank you anybody else seeing none is there a final presentation by County staff nope is there a final presentation by the applicant no thank all right have all documents and tangible evidence been admitted into evidence to the clerk I'm assuming so all right with that we will close the public hearing yes Mo appr all right I have a motion by commissioner flesher with a second by commissioner lore any further discussion all in favor oppose motion carries thank you all right with that we will move on to public discussion items Miss Judy Greenberg who has been waiting patiently thank you Judy is going to come and talk to us about the Rosland celebration on February 17th and I think during the break everybody was given a fly I'm filling for you while you walk up here everybody was given and a flyer with some of the details yes good to see you this morning thank you oh this it's patiently I've been really enjoying listening to the discussions I'm going to take my glasses off and on because you know as you get older sometimes one pair doesn't do it all right um you're a good company pardon me you're a good company can y'all hear me am I am I in the right spot to speak yes ma'am um yeah very interesting discussion about that last um land use um request um and it's not easy to balance all of those requests on an ongoing basis and look 25 30 years down the road we hope our kids are actually doing that in their 20s and being realistic um I'm Judy Greenberg president of the rosand Women's Club uh I reside at 24 Sunset Drive in rosand um good morning Madame chairman and fellow Commissioners I here today with a personal invitation to the rosand Celebration the event starts early on Saturday February 17th wrapping up at around 1 p.m. where early risers and get her done type Folks up there in the rural areas I guess we have much to celebrate 132 years of rosand History the struggles of early settlers the perseverance of developers through land booms and busts the devastation of Wars at home and on foreign lands have shaped rosand just like the rest of our country equally important will be the history we make during our lives through celebrating the current on February 17th as a community we can begin to forge the future of Rosland for generations to come we're already looking at comp plan implications in that area the location of this year's celebration will be the Rosen community building and Community Park I emphasize this year's celebration in this particular location the Rosen community building has been brought back into service through the dedication of the Indian River County and the people of Rosland just two years ago the doors were opened again for use by the community the Rosen Women's Club immediately focused its members and other community organizations in discussion to determine how the building can best serve the needs of of the residents with Community backing the Rosen Women's Club actively engaged the Indian River County Parks and Recreation Department to address current and emerging issues related to the grounds surrounding the building Riverbank and dock access I'm really interested in that rotary project with the the life saving just another thing to add to the list right the friends of St Sebastian River and Rosland Community Association pledge support for the goals of this endeavor and have actively engaged their members also so we have three local organizations working hand inand together we invite you to the relaxing charm of the Rosland community park and building for our celebration we hope each of you can maybe come out for just a little while and uh in fact one of your staff persons is going to have a booth there shaa is actually going to have one of our indoor spots so we've got vendors inside the building um and we have them out in the park and I want to thank Laura Moss bringing to our attention the newly uh initiated adopt a park program that has been um really a tremendous thing the county did um I've had the the um pleasure of working with adopto Park programs throughout the State of Florida with the Garden Club and even um southeast United States and that they're just they're wonderful programs to um engage um your volunteers and of course Sue thank you very much for your efforts along the way with that building I I was not in the area when the when the county had to decide was that going to be an asset or would that whole area change and and I have to say I'm pleased that y'all made those decisions um it's there's still little issues and uh Public Works we're working with them very well I think and Facilities to to work through those on an ongoing basis so hope to see y'all around thank you any questions thank you February 17th 8 to one be there or be square that's it thank you be there we look forward to it as we have in years past whether it was there or at The Old Firehouse yes and uh I I'll tell you what I I look forward to the music oh yeah did you notice that yes we do have we have a little bit of everything that music I I'll tell you have your great groups and uh this year you have uh Strummer time as well yep and the the rosand uh group has I I just love listening to everybody playing those strengths wonderful and the washboard and everything else that they throw in okay well envirment thank you very much we'll be there thank you Judy thank you for the invitation thank you by appreciate it all right the next item is public notice Mr de br yes on February 20th 2024 there'll be a public hearing to consider an ordinance amendment to Indian River code section 30511 imposition of additional court costs in criminal cases pursuant to Florida section uh statute 9391 185 as amended Madam chairman I turn it back over to you that sounds like it's going to be a riveting public hearing hearing sure it will yeah all right we look forward to that thank you Bill we'll move on to parks recreation and conservation 12 A1 environmental land Bond introduction to the ark GIS Hub dasboard good morning Madam chair thank you I do believe staff because it's GIS related needs just a minute to connect um with answer this question while we're killing time while they're connecting yes is it a hub or is it a dashboard or is so for those of us not uh who not gained expertise in do spatial analysis and things of this nature we're getting better at it though I we're using all sorts of words riveting spatial analysis uh oh by the way uh Judy I think uh conservation lands will have a booth at your event as well this on the 17th so absolutely yeah wonderful um so with that I I guess we can just kind of begin to discuss it globally and Paige will do her magic and connect back while we're waiting if you'd like but I will say um I'm very impressed um you know those of us who live through the land acquisition process for um environmentally sensitive and historic lands back in 2000 and Beyond uh remember um this well proverbial smoke filed room with uh PowerPoint slides and most of the analysis and presentation data and information was just available uh in either hard uh paper packets or provided right at the panel discussions or the committee discussions back then um and we've come a long way baby because today you're going to see a demonstration of our um GIS Department's um efforts in modernizing this process and giving your appointees in the in the elab the environmental lands acquisition panel the tools they need to really dig in and make some great decisions um you know based on the data they're going to be have access to and it will be available to the public as well and through our web page and paig is has a double meeting today because Paige Lester has been instrumental as Michael Stout in the gis Department in this endeavor you're really doing a good job of filling this time Mike I have to give you credit I even like the page page thing um but here's the question I'll help you out does this mean that they the lack commit or the elab committee does not have to go out and do super awesome site visits through the woods like we used to have to do like 12 20 years ago the last time not have to welcome to get the boots on the ground but um I think this provides a a window through their their laptop there was nothing like trudging through the the brush by the airport in rosand Judy will appreciate that I remember doing that with Roland one day yes we will make sure that we find some exciting sites but no it really doesn't take the place of that what it really is is a a really neat resource to kind of give a lot of transparency to the process because there's so much information that's presented and it's so readily accessible and Paige I can't say enough about how hard she's worked and how diligent and amazing her skill set is because I'm always in a it's been great um so we continue to make progress on uh the $50 million bond issue to acquire environmentally uh significant lands Your Last Action as a board was on December 12th where you approved the elap guide right the guide serves as basically the handbook for the members uh to uh attract and View and evaluate recommendations for purchase with that we've uh encountered some very sophisticated software as you know the county currently has ezri as a tool available and so nice to use when you want to look up a property so what Paige and Michael have done is taken that existing technology and added a GIS Hub ultimately um resulting in a dashboard and she'll explain the the value of the Hub um as the dashboard stems from it it's the central component of the Hub and contains links to uh previous Acquisitions and the guide itself and a searchable database again all accessible through the website both for the elap panel and our um public as at large so with that a bit of a network issue sorry okay I can keep going yeah sorry yeah it's like the pen or the password which one we're used to having the fingerprint readers so we're too spoiled pardon us the question is do you remember your pen or your password your finger to go in yeah right technology have a so we did do a brief preview for the elap at the January 16th meeting just to kind of give them a little bit of a taste as well as what it's going to look like got really good feedback um some really good questions but um I'm excited I think we're going to be able to launch this um probably in about I think on the 16th is what we're shooting for okay so it'll be about two weeks before the actual accepting of the nominations on March 1st um so everybody will get a chance to kind of get used to using it awes so Madam chair you say where's our parks and rec department chair to or head today Beth well I'm glad you asked because she actually is um appointed to the management Board of the Indian River Lagoon Council I proud to say she was appointed the chair to the board to the board to the board yeah the management board and she she's attending that regular meeting right now for that investiture so I want to congratulate her yes very much so that's a very much an honor to be on the management board I'm glad we have we have staff participating on that level and uh Wendy I believe serves on the stem committee on the stem so I have to run from this meeting up there to to listen and participate on that so very um always learn stuff we actually um are talking about some new grant opportunities and and pretty excited about some things that are going on staying in the loop on the grant opportunities and how they um make their decisions regarding such as always good for us absolutely okay so now we're getting we've stretched it we've stretched it and we're here of course you know their hous in the old school in Sebastian and uh that's home to our new Sebastian veteran services office so we're very close to the council in more ways than one sorry guys they uh didn't like either one of us on that laptop won't take me too long to get logged every things set up for you one of the neat things that we have on the dashboard um well actually The Hub and she's going to explain the differences there's so many funding opportunities that we've been able to take advantage of over the years for our Public Access improvements and our habitat restoration um and one of the um great things that we've been able to achieve with the Hub is to formally recognize all of our project Partners talk about projects there's just linkages to all kinds of information and as page is going to say there and explain to you there's a lot of different permission levels that'll be available so staff obviously will be using um this for all of the data sourcing this is where everything's going to be stored so we don't have to go and have a variety of different locations for data additionally with that we also will be updating the data as we get new information which is um obviously with the land of GIS a constant Enterprise and then um the public will have access and the board and the elap will have access but the Great great thing about the Hub is it kind of is tailored to who a viewer is so that you know what you want to look for and you can find it easily so that's kind of the goal of the process is to make it as simple as possible I believe this is going to save a lot of Staff time with questions people won't have to bother calling and inquiring because they can literally log on and find all the information about the active projects where they are information that's been collected um so we're super excited about it and we're close we are we are close here we go okay nothing ever goes the way you plan all right I have learned that sorry about that delay here we go yay okay all right um and I just wanted to say as a last comment Paige has worked incredibly hard on this and she has um really been she for someone who's not a biologist it's pretty hard to understand a lot of this information and she has just been so diligent and careful with um how she's presenting this information and detail oriented and I'm just really impressed with the the work that she's been able to accomplish with that I'm gonna turn it over to Paige okay can everyone hear me I'm Paige Lester I work for the gis uh division um I'm very excited to be able to share this with you guys today um I'm excited about this project and um um so here we are so um we decided um we have we have this bond in front of us a three-year Bond um it's a big deal and uh we wanted to do it right there's a lot of information a lot of data um a lot of documents that go along with it and so uh I you know Parks came to me and asked you know let's make a dashboard to help with the process great idea um but there was just so much information that's out there and also for people at the public they don't really understand you know what is the bond what you know what does it mean you know let's help Let's help them understand it so to me the dashboard is more of the tool the center tool to help staff and also also for the public to see the data that's out there that helps inform our decisions about what properties we want to acquire right so uh the dashboard is really that Center tool kind of the center of all of it but there's so much more information especially about the previous bonds our current uh conservation lands out there you can't really share that without having a proper place for it so it was um I looked into it and thought that this would be a good solution to have the Hub and then have the dashboard be the center of that Hub so that way the public could be more involved we could educate them make it easier so this uh and the great thing about it is that there was no extra cost to the county to do this um because it was already part of our agreement so uh this is the the landing page or the Hub um it's really like a website kind of or a site um that kind of stores information and it also Stores um all the documents for uh for the Hub um or for the for the acquisition process but you can make all of the content permission based so everything isn't necessarily going to be available to everyone all the time you know when you get updated updated information you can say okay this is the most recent survey or the most recent management plan we can make that public and then archive the the older stuff right so and as with the Hub it has a really great search feature as well so it's real easy to kind of search for stuff for staff or the public um based on what they are allowed to to see so I'll just go ahead and um kind of run through and talk about it um this is kind of the the front the front page of it um the search is right at the top you could search um you know for like a survey for example and uh then you can see if you have any of surveys loaded for example then you can immediately find that and and take a look at it which is really helpful and easy for staff um um so oops there we go um so the one one great thing about the Hub too is that we can add we can keep adding content to content to it over the three-year Bond period so when we have when the pro when we get uh properties Acquired and then projects start happening with those um Acquisitions then we'll be able to add that information as as it comes so um we wanted this to be very public friendly and really explain um you know the bond the referendum and kind of also give information about our current um current conservation lands and and what happened in the previous Bond like we said so um this is a you know a link to our some of our existing Maps I'm not going to go there now but um you all seen them um but I do have links throughout you know if someone wanted to actually look at the resolution they can just click on that and see the actual resolution here um very easy very nice to have that right now this is not public um just so you're not going to find it anywhere on the website yet um we wanted to that will come later in this discussion but um this uh this site just has kind of some really great um you know visuals about you know where where we've been as far as the history of conservation efforts for in River County and um and then you know obviously where we're going to be going so um and again here's all the old resolutions um if you were interested to take a look at those ancient documents you can see those too um and I was because I didn't really know much about the the previous bonds either um because I was a young in then um so yeah this this is another section here about the previous Bond initiatives um so this site is really great because it has a lot of pages you can add um that really talks about the background um here are the sample ballots from 1992 and 2004 um I thought that was kind of neat to add those in um and then uh let me go back uh let's see let's go back and y'all will have a chance to kind of really go through this yourself once we launch um I think uh I'll let Wendy give those dates but um then we have a section about the Public Partnerships with um IND County Conservation lands so these are a lot of our partners here and then there's links to lots of those efforts which is really nice um because they did they did have a good hand in kind of matching funds uh in the previous bonds so it's you know really nice to be able to see that so then you come down to actually the dashboard uh which is the center kind of the center tool for our staff to make these decisions right they're going to be looking at data um and uh so all the information that goes into the dashboard um will uh it right now we don't have any projects right so whenever Wendy puts those in she has a different application that she puts it in that that is not public um then those things will just load up um once she puts all the information in from the nominations and then decides if they pass the minimum requirements um so I did put in some uh test test data and I'll just show you um here because it's a little easier to kind of navigate um I kind of we didn't want to choose uh you know we wanted to choose a County property but obviously these are not going to be eligible for the bond because they're already conservation land that we own but um here's an example um of of uh North Sebastian being one of the nominations and then when she puts in all the information there will be a lot of information that show that automatically populates here in these in these different um uh tabs right like uh you know soil types land use um land cover types and stuff like that um and there'll be a lot of links here for um them to review the data you can also come in and turn on there's going to be a ton ton of layers there already is a lot but there's going to be some more layers that come in here that will help them make those decisions um like I've got seagrass turned off you can't see it right now but um so this is kind of the tool and they can kind of you know use this map and uh investigate the data as they need to um so all of this data will be stored in the Hub in the cloud secure Cloud um so they can always access it um the panel will have the panel will have access the public will have access to certain things so um we're going back to the hub The Hub also has um sort of some you know a meeting schedule and then this projects list doesn't is not it's kind of like a placeholder because we have no projects yet um and then like this example is just the listed um panel but it's not visible to the public um I'm logged in right now so I can see it but um the public will not be able to see this and I can make anything on the Hub you know um restricted if needed but really there's not much to um restrict other because right now I don't have the projects showing because we don't have any real projects yet so whenever this launches this won't be visible so but later when we do have projects it will be so because we do want to share that information with the public so um I don't think I have one of the things I wanted to point out was um those of you that have read the guide there's a a matrix in there that has a whole bunch of criteria for evaluation when the public gets into the dashboard there's going to be tabs in there and they'll be able to see how things are rated um how the elap is is guiding things there's a ton of documents that are associated with every single submitt a lot of those will be available through tabs on the dashboard um and and as I mentioned earlier I think it saves staff a lot of time because instead of when they click on that project at the bottom they'll be able to see all this information and kind of familiarize themselves so that when they come to elap meetings or whatever they already have a lot of the information that they probably would have asked and stuff so just really impressed at the product um when I went back and looked at the original um bonds that are currently being done by manate county and some others there's just not even nearly as detailed as this so I think it just is a really great resource and like I said I can't thank GIS and Paige in particular for really helping conservation with this effort because I think it's going to be a wonderful tool for the public and for the board and the elap and and staff do you guys have any questions I'm sure you might anybody have any questions just I just have a comment thank you uh Paige is it for going back and researching the history I I love seeing the uh what you call them ancient documents mhm yeah I like that too great mrman Madam chairman thank you as uh this board's representative on the elap committee I want to point out a couple things is first of all I want to congratulate each one of you for your appointments on the elap we have a very strong and very uh Mission focused related board U on these projects so I'm hoping that we receive some good project projects and good potentials um over the next over the next few months because our our board is focused of course our our chairman is commissioner lore's Choice former chairman and commissioner O'Brien he's he's leading the charge but uh this project was uh shown to us at the last meeting and even since been updated I can tell since since we showed it to the elap folks and Paige great job we're thankful to have you you're you're now a member of the dynamic duo team soly blissed so you're like their sidekicked you get all the information for them so they can so they can get out there and do what they need to do but but it's uh it's it's it's very good I I really like the way this board is proceeding going through the guide was a little tedious and a little boring at times but we made it through it and we published a good document and uh but they they were they were all Champs we were there some meetings for three hours U getting this stuff done and they did a great job so I'm very happy with with with so far where we're going with this I just hope we have some good projects to evaluate and if not I'm sure uh Wendy and Beth will be out there're looking for some if we don't don't get any submittal but I think we will I'm pretty sure I'm just I guess I'm I'm end it right here saying just emphasize this this group is doing a good job and they working very hard and and P Page's effort is going to uh really uh make things even better so I'm very pleased awesome I have a question Paige um so the gis where you can turn different layers off and on and and all that is there um like a a a guide for people that don't talk GIS language to to know what to turn off and on and so yeah so there so one of the things that I have not um had a chance to do yet is sort of um write a little um kind of how to um because what I can do is I can add a really nice rich text um tab in the within the dashboard itself that says hey click here for help and it tells you you know it'll tell you everything about you know these are the kind of layers that are in the in the in the the list the layer list and here's how you turn them on and off um um and then here's how you see the metadata or you know the the sources for that data um where it came from and such so um that is one thing I have yet to had um have the time to do but I intend to do that yes all right I was just curious because I mean I like to play around and I would go in and click on different stuff but doesn't mean I know what I'm looking at or what it's telling me so I'm one of those people that definitely would need um a guide to help explain explain it and then what is the process this is might be more for Wendy uh for people that want to nomin nominate I guess is that what we're calling it uh property um how would they submit that and what kind of requirements on I guess more of a minimum basis are we looking for because you know I might not want somebody to build next door to me so I want to nominate my neighbor's property but I don't necessarily think that that meets the goals of what we're trying to accomplish sure we actually said and emailed strictly for the bond it's environmental Indian R Indian R.G so that's one way that people can submit nominations there is a nomination form in the back of the guide for folks that um don't want to go through the email process certainly everything can be provided to us directly um in hard copy U so there's several Avenues we eventually would like to have a link on the Hub itself where people will be able to nominate and upload information um that's something that we're kind of investigating from a um sort of an it question that I like you don't even begin to understand some of that um stuff so as far as that goes and your question about the um can anybody nominate anything the answer is yes any parcel can be nominated by anybody um but there is in the guide a minimum criteria at the very end that that that a parcel would have to meet to even be considered so it's staff's obligation to collect those combinations do a cursory review to see if if the minimum criteria are met and then at that point we assimilate all of those um projects bring them to the elap for them to begin to consider the environmental consultant that was brought on board that you have approved for work may be asked to go out and do some due diligence to verify some information and collect more data for us and then the elab considers all of this and and ranks and then brings them back to the board for your consideration so I might be able to nominate my neighbors's proper probably wouldn't go anywhere anybody can nominate anything I I well I can nominate they might nominate me who knows um and then Paige last question so I know you put a lot of work into the dashboard um and those layers and and hubs and everything is this is that something that we can replicate over time for different departments and different things like roads or stormw water um utilities and that type of thing Human Services absolutely they're in hi demand I could tell you we had a pry paage away thank you Michael and Dan Russell because they are in high demand every day Paige gave me a whole bunch of links when we started this for other um governmental entities that do these for initiatives they do them for like if you were doing the cross Florida Trail right now you could have something just for that it's a really great resource and and gives the public a really a great view into what we're doing so that it's not all done in a vacuum yeah no I I think it is a good way to visually let people know what we're doing and let them kind of manipulate around with some of that information too because I do think people don't understand the amount of information that is inputed into some of the decisions that staff makes it's not just oh this looks super awesome I'm going to pluck it out of the air there's a lot that goes into it I I agree I think the transparency is good um for the public So yeah thank you commissioner flesher commissioner lore did you have any comments Madam chair I'll just say uh the transparent is key to me and this is huge when we're dealing with these kind of dollars I think what's most important is it's refreshing to see departments working together back to back uh I'm not so sure that uh that happened all the time in the past so and I appreciate both departments working together it's refreshing yes that end result is much more robust than had it been done in a vacuum so thank you guys and thank you for Lending page to the effort Michael Stout G director you guys this was just informational or did you need a yeah there there really wasn't any um action requested we just wanted to give you guys a preview and let you know that it will be launched hopefully on the 16th assuming we don't have any more technical glitches and I apologize for this morning it should have run a little bit more smoothly um and then we did announce at the last elap meeting that we begin accepting nominations on March 1st March 1 so we will be um hitting the ground running awesome you guys are getting ready to get real busy so I'm glad you guys got this set up thank you for showing it to us all right Commissioners our last item is my item which is the County Attorney recruitment process which we kind of tabled at the last meeting so just as a follow up to some of those conversations we did have a discussion at the last meeting that we were going to try to get um a job description in place so we could get that out to the bar and the association of County attorneys and that type of thing um Suzanne has sent out several job descriptions and listings from other counties for their County attorney um I don't know if you guys have had a chance to look at those if you have anything on those that you like or don't like if you would like um me to work with Suzanne to take those and maybe make our own and update the one that we used in 2013 I'd be happy to do that um so I'm just kind of looking for some additional feedback and how we want to move forward and I also believe that we have an actual quote for a recruitment process because that was part of what we discussed trying to get that so we knew what numbers we were talking about yes yes Madam chair it was it's not the $38,000 it was it's just over 24,000 so just over $24,000 so um I don't know what you guys are feeling at this point I think at our last meeting again we talked about trying to to get this out on the street while we thought about going through the recruitment process um I'm happy to try to coordinate with Suzanne and get some of that information out and then you know bring it back for approval if that's what you'd like my only concern is then once we get to a point where we are taking in applications and resumés who's going to be the one that's triaging and reviewing all those and and seeing if they meet requirements and those types of things to me having um a process in place through a recruiter or something like that helps with that otherwise you know we're all going to be looking at multiple applications and trying to figure out which ones are our top five Madam chair I would I would also recommend that uh we get with uh Mr de bra's office find out uh in the last several years what we have been subcontracting out with respect to Legal uh and keep that in mind maybe triage is the top three or four I know there's documents somewhere and that way that will help us make our decision and hopefully lessen subcontracting attorney fees out yeah did any of you guys submit to Suzanne any um specifics on what you wanted to see in a county attorney I have not no thank you madam chairman um I I like the fact that we let the the bar know and and and local people know that we put it out but I have to agree with what you said just a few minutes ago few seconds ago was when we get to the point to where we need to vet these candidates I don't think our HR staff is they're not attorneys they're not Professionals in this field of finding Professionals for an organization like ours I think that she can compile the list of information and send it to what I feel we need to do would to me would be just like we did with the County Administrator and we spent more on that but spend the $24,000 to have a professional recruiter vet the the the information submitted by Suzanne and information that they've and candidates that they have gotten from the outside that that they do through their channels and again my criteria would be that they have to know Florida and government law but I think we we we're going to we're going to get to a point to where we are beyond our capabilities in our HR department to vet a county attorney's position so I'm good with what we've done so far I think that information should be compiled and passed on basically if you're a local attorney that wants to apply you can either apply through the county or you can apply through the recruiter if that's where we choose to go but the requirements all the same and then when we get close to the end all of those candidates are being vetted by somebody that that that does this and I don't want to put that burden and our that responsibility on our HR staff to do that yeah commission yes I um thank you for mentioning that and I I would agree with that I think when we get to that point definitely we should have a recruiter look at it I know the community thinks that everyone reports to us that's not true two people report to us as we know and that's the County Administrator and the County Attorney so there the two positions are are key and very important to us and um very much in favor of having a professional recruiter I may thank you um in the past the board has gone ahead and worked with the HR Director and highlighted certain areas of experience that they would like to see obviously local government experience would be high on the list experience with public records laws experience with uh eminent domain might be there real estate you know there's a laundry list of things you will get applicants that are qualified for this job not that that you will see are very qualified for the job and meet those requirements you will also get a laundry list of applicants that are not qualified for the job that have personal injury experience or they have workers comp experience that are kind of grasping at straws those are easy resumés to weed out and in the past when we've gone through this with Mr reinold and Mr Plage the cream has risen to the top where there have been five or six very strong candidates very strong resumés that the board has decided to take a look at um I I I guess my advice to you would be that go ahead and release the app the the the opening to the Florida bar to the Florida Association of of County attorneys and Florida Association of counties to the city government local government uh board uh to the league of cities to all the different areas out there that we can work with Suzanne and and take a look and see if past history is not uh if past history has repeated itself and I think you will find that it will um when I put out for the assistant County attorney position there were three stronger candidates that had local government experience and government experience that quickly distinguish themselves over and Above the Rest um and it wasn't a big lift for Susan and I to take a look at those and decide this person should get an interview this person should not get an interview I don't want you to be afraid of rolling up your sleeves and taking a look at this I don't think that the recruiting process will be that difficult I don't have a problem rolling up our sleeves and taking a look at this but my concern is you and Susan have the ability to talk to each other in the office we don't so determining who is who's who makes the top and who doesn't if there's not somebody one person that's put in charge of that then we're going to be doing it at a commission meeting and and that's the way it had been done before that doesn't seem very professional or efficient to me Madam chair if if you're suggesting you want a member of us this body to do that I'd be happy to do it um one thing though is Mr chairman said something about the vetting process well if you're going to hire a firm which I'm against um you're going to hire them to recruit advertise or you going to hire them to vet that is the that's what we're trying that's what I'm trying to get you guys to to give me some direction on I mean I asked at the last meeting so we could get cuz there's nothing to even put out on the street yet so I asked at the last meeting for you guys to give Suzanne some type of information about what you wanted in a county attorney so we could put together that application to even put out on the street so she I had a conversation with her about what I would like to see she sent the last um the last job description from 2013 um she sent job descriptions from Martin County St Lucy simol and Bard County that came in last week it went to all of us um but so I need I need to know um what it is that you guys want because otherwise I'm left to put together which I'm fine I can work with Suzanne and put together a job description and bring it back I just wanted you guys' input on what that was going to be and for me and I understand that you're not in favor of a firm my only thing is for $24,000 we could probably save ourselves a lot of the money that you're talking about over over the long term with getting somebody in that is able and capable of handling all those things that is not being sub you know contracted out um Mr de what process did you use to find Keith the the the same process that we've just discussed advertised with the Florida Bar Association is County attorneys cities you have three very qualified neogov uh indeed all of those are are are in our package already as far as hiring and yes I had three good candidates I would suggest that we do that and the four of us that have not supply Suzanne with what we're looking for and try to get it as quick as possible uh thank you madam chair I'm looking for the recruiter to recruit Alo recruit and vet as I said earlier this is one of two key positions 24,000 is certainly a good investment in someone who will occupy a key position and I don't want to leave it to chance that the cream somehow Rises to the top after you discard all these things that waste people's time with with a recruiter um you have that added layer of oversight and also bringing the top people in I want the top person that we can have I don't want to leave it a chance thank you commissioner thank you chairwoman um I just wanted to say that at first I wanted to say thank you to chairwoman Adams for bringing this item forward this far in advance um I'm sure you can understand that from a staff standpoint for myself and for the staff in the attorney's office um it is a bit of a concerned obviously that our now County attorney is leaving here in the next few months as we've had significant turnover in our office from one County attorney to another so I just want to thank you for bringing that forward um and getting the ball moving on the subject and on the issue as commissioner Moss has pointed out is a very significant position um I would like to also just kind of touch briefly on the issue about Outsourcing um items I've heard that topic kind of come up several different times whether it's today or in passing um I will tell you that I mean there are items that are outsourced obviously there are bigger litigious items that are outsourced there are some items that are still handled in office I can tell you in past um I myself have handled several of them I know Keith is capable of handling others um with that being said as well I just want to um make make sure that we remember that Whatever item is being outsourced the number of staff that we actually have in our office versus the number of departments the demands that are put on staff in our department We Are One department and we serve all the departments in the county um I think sometimes departments forget that um so our day is essentially putting out fires most of the time um so I just want them want you all to just kind of be CAU cognizant when you're looking at that of you know if we're spending time also additional time on litigation that may take away time from other areas or the possibility of even and obviously whoever were were to be put into the County Attorney position would be the one to look at that but possibly another position to help fill that role um if we wanted an in-house litigation person I don't know but as the person who will be left after Mr deal retires I just wanted to at least let this board know kind of you know what's going on I think that's you should know what's going on in your in your for the people that work for you that's all no I appreciate that and and let's let me um try to get us to some point here so why don't we do this if you guys can get to Suzanne what it is that you want to see please review if you haven't gotten the jobs descriptions I'll make sure they get sent back out to everybody I believe I I advertisement something else want to make sure that we all have the same right information across the board yeah there we'll make sure that that was that that gets sent back out with the job descriptions um please let Suzanne or if it's easier whomever the your assistant let Suzanne know or I need to compile all that information um so we can get a job description for ourselves prepared what we can do if if we can get that done we can have a discussion at the next meeting about that job description so it can be put out because right now we want to put it out but we don't have anything so I just need to get from you guys um what that looks like and we will put something to together as a job description because whether whatever path we end up taking will need a job description and that will jump start the process right so if we can do that I would really like to approve a job description at the next meeting so it's ready to go on the street that afternoon to the bar and whomever else in the meantime um Mr Tan can you do you have an actual um proposal from a recruitment firm I can get an actual proposal but I just called and asked what the amount was okay if you could get us an actual proposal that spells out what they would and would not do then because what we had talked about at the last meeting was trying to run some parallel courses at the same time I just again like I said at the last meeting I don't and to Susan's point I don't want to be here on June 31st ringing our hands that Mr deal is leaving in August and we have no we haven't started the process so I will probably annoy you guys by just putting this on as an ongoing item until we hire somebody um M chairman I won't be ringing my hands well no you'll be packing your bags but let's not go into that we're going to lock the doors that's what we're going to do um with you in it so as we leave it today Mr administrator will get us an actual proposal make sure the emails are sent back out there's two emails one had about nine and the most recent one which was shortly thereafter was just the one that you mentioned Martin uh seol which is the most recent County recruit attorney Recruitment and then bravard St Lucy and Martin I think that that one had the job descriptions in the first one had more of like not stuff that was as I've got one from replacement Texas Trin yeah um and then if there is any requirements that you guys want like if you want certain amount of years of service in certain areas whether that's imminent domain transactional I don't know inter agency public whatever whatever terms or non- terms if you don't want personal injury although I don't know sometimes I think that might be helpful around here but um we'll get all that put together and I would really just like to make some decisions on the 20th so if I'm going to annoy you guys until it happens does that sound good good okay M chair yes I I I just wanted to uh just recap something uh we heard about how important a recruitment organization is and yes we happy to see a proposal and uh a defined uh course of action uh but I I just want to remind uh my colleagues that uh and no reflection of John tanic uh but he was selected with the recruitment process um but I want to bring up that uh if you all might recall we were exposed to a list of applicants that was never intended for us to see because they had to be vetted out that's the type of applicants that uh are compelled to apply you can't prohibit anybody from applying um I I think a a job uh or a position of of this importance yes is very important to all of us they're one of two individuals that work directly for the Five County Commissioners as well as every element and Department in this organization with that in mind and and they keep us straight with with that in mind I believe that and if I understood the uh the County Attorney correctly is that we I mean we have the opportunity to post this in three different Arenas where there exists a plethora of certified County attorneys assistant County attorneys that might find uh any River County to be as special a place as we see it and want to relocate here there might be such a qualified individual available already so that we're not considering a believe in and again you know John we along with some of the colleagues that we assessed uh and was narrowed down was also somebody who did a uh car uh Det detailing process that was their years of experience it no no schooling whatsoever um I I trust you're going to do a far better job and you haven't looked at my car that's why we have you well and I like the fact that you said you wouldn't clean cause right that was even a bonus but my point is that we we saw about 30% of those applicants really should never have been on the list to begin with so when we look at professional recruiting that might be a better choice is to go to the three foundations that have such people already uh within the fold and and I just wanted to say all that because I I believe that there's plenty of fruit right in our own garden whether it's internal external within Florida on the bar or in in in the fraternal organizations that you belong to that I think people will be delighted to apply as opposed to spending $24,000 to V out later on when we can have it here unless we have a uh not a recruitment organization but a an assessment organization something along that lines which would assess with us but not recruit because after all many of the applicants that were on the county uh administrators list were also on six or seven other lists they were looking for a job and not the job well that is a um good point and Mr administrator maybe when you get a proposal it can be um a proposal for the recruitment but also a proposal for the assessment and vetting process without the recruitment so we can send them the applications that we receive and they can do more of the vetting of credentials and the Social Media stuff and all that stuff that is that what you're talking about yeah because did otherwi stuff that would be harder for us to do we're involved with financing their trips down here for goes and okay and if they could just kind of that way we can mix and match and if we have a hybrid process we have a hybrid process but I think that'll give us all the information to make a decision at the next meeting but we need a job description so get me your information yes Madam chair if I lore thank you if I can ask the administrator a question in the future who do you see handling our collective bargaining issues so well currently Michael zto is lead that as a part of that that position and then we've Al in this most recent uh evaluation I spoke with our HR about getting more involved and taking a more active role you know complimentary to Michael so and that's generally where it happens I mean she is involved but I'm asking her taking a more active role and increasing her involvement in that so you have no plans for the uh County Attorney's Office ever being involved in collective bargaining well actually so my my approach to collective bargaining is you put together a team but your HR kind of runs some of the is like that point person and when you start off with a contract or whatever you bring the whole team together you would have your attorney there you'd have your Finance or your budget you would have the appropriate departments that are impacted so you'd have that and you then you would kind of decide what those issues are and then you would have one lead person so do we have anybody on in the county attorney's office now that coordinates with Mr zitto with with respect to other than Mr zitto so that might be something board members to think about when we're looking side Council correct we we do have a firm yes if that is something that if you want collective bargaining um experience put that on the list and we will incorporate it into the job description or requirements agre we never know yeah no that's agreed but uh uh uh Sheriff brings up a very interesting point in years past HR handled it and that uh Mr zto was uh in the room secondary um he is uh an an attorney as well uh he does has LW experience uh but a recent time most of this has been on the shoulders of Mr zto and I I don't know how much relationship there is with the uh general council's office but there should be stronger stance and it's very refreshing to to hear that uh John that you uh want to see more of a a human resources approach because that's how it was and it worked very well I I don't know I guess we got got away from that and in in the past few years no it's not just recently it's in the past few years gotten away from that and then it's been on uh Mr zto shoulders and and I think Michael can share that Suzanne has involved in the process there are just some components of the process I think we'd like to see her get more involved in when it comes to the the recommendations as we depending on like a grievance or something like that you know I realize is a sideb discussion but it still applies yeah it really depends on the gravity of what's in front of us as far as the grievance or the weight of the collective bargaining process whether it's a reopener whether we're opening the entire contract and whether we're seeking outside counsel and some of these assignments are just by way of evolution and efficiency I mean over time we look to save dollars and synergize and I happen to be in position to take on that role the County Attorney had frankly was never asked to take on that role it's not something that they traditionally have practiced and their other other counties may have treated differently but at the end of the day John's approach is to assemble a collaborative team um with some level of expertise that we can draw upon uh outside of the county in these areas that are highly specialized um but certainly would welcome the County Attorney to that team by all means chairman yes commissioner I'm gonna chime in on the collective bargaining thing because Mike and I have sat across the table numerous times yes sir oh it was the other way though Jo over the years all right the county the county was always fortunate because Mike is an attorney he was able to do that but sometimes the county hired outside Council hired Jeff Mandel to come in and and do the process if you want to look at having your county attorney's office be involved in the in the more in the collective bargaining thing you're going to have to do what Susan mentioned they don't have enough people they were putting out fires every day you're going to have to add to to to what you want that to do or get somebody or hire somebody with expertise that's what I mean and Bill even said it in in his what he spoke about a few minutes ago that you're going to have attorneys apply that have experience in collective bargaining they may have more in workman's comp they they may have have a land use component I mean I would like to see our attorney be well versed than all those but some are well versed in certain areas more so than others I believe Dylan was more of a land use guy when he came from Jacksonville you know he he didn't have the collective bargaining experience because we had Mike so there's a whole lot of variables you need to do here think about here and I agree with the chairman I think we need to I think it's a separate item but we do need to have a job description for the county attorney's office I think that's most important anyways and then we need to look at how we're going to vet things I have no issue with us advertising to a hundred different groups throughout the State of Florida uh whoever they may be and I would love to see a local guy if they want to apply get the job that was that was qualified but I'm not in a position to vet some of the things that that are required I don't know I don't know anything about certain areas of law our Chairman's an attorney uh she's more qualified than I am but yet I'm qualified in other areas so I think it's the things that she talked about that we need to look at we need to look at the option of doing the things of advertising we need to look at the option of having a professional recruiter vet the process because I do want to find a diamond out there somewhere that maybe in the rough but we need to do this the right way if we all get involved in this it's going to be probably not a not a good thing if we all have our opinion until the time comes for us to give our opinion well I yes I would just when you send what it is that you would like to see in the attorney or requirements um um or experience please try to triage it by what is more important to you because I will just let's be realistic while I'm sure we are all looking for you know the perfect person that knows everything about everything there's not going to be I doubt a magical unicorn applicant that's going to know indepth collective bargaining and land use and imminent domain and transactions and personal injury or whatever we decides on our list so I think we should just be a little bit realistic and and let's maybe part of the conversation after we get somebody here or on board in that position is what does our attorney's office need to be provided as far as resources so we don't have as many outside Council options if that's something that the Commissioners aren't comfortable with but that that's a much longer term conversation and I want to focus on shortterm which is get me your requirements and we'll bring it back on the 20th all right if there's nothing else for the good of the order stand a Jed