e e e e e e e e e good evening and welcome to to the May 9th 2024 meeting of the Indian River County Planning and Zoning commission uh we'll Begin by uh Pledge of Allegiance please Al to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God and indivisible with liberty and justice for all thank you um are there any additions or deltion to the agenda tonight I know the draft has been withdrawn so we have just one agenda item tonight one agenda item yes okay very good and that's it that's it okay first um item of business is the approval of the minutes of the March 28th 2024 uh meeting motion to approve uh all in favor I hi did I see from the uh notes that it was 15 minutes yes sir maybe maybe less possibly it was 12 and a half you trying to make me look bad no sir I'm trying to make you look more thorough than I am all Vice chairman excellent excellent uh one uh item tonight and that is a public hearing and it is Community Baptist Church K through 12 private school um it is a request for a special exemption use and site plan approval to convert an existing 4,000 sqt accessory building into a private K through 12 School uh Community Baptist Church Incorporated is the owner 116 engineering and Consulting LLC is the agent um this is located at TW um 12534 Rosland Road the zoning is currently RS3 residential single family up to three units per eight land use designation is L2 lowdensity residential 2 up to six units per acre um any uh Declaration of exp partite Communications I have one um I was contacted by one of the members of the church they were looking to possibly do this school they asked me what they had to do and what the process was I gave them a limited explanation and I explained to them they had to talk to the planning director go to the planning department to get full disclosure on what they have to do um and I pretty much never had another meeting with them after that so I don't believe that that meeting would have any weight on my decision today excellent Todd thank you anyone else all right uh staff presentation oh swearing participants anyone who would like to speak on this issue tonight please stand and be sworn in do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth thank you um staff presentation thank you Mr chairman good evening members of the Planning and Zoning commission for the record my name is Patrick Murphy Senior planner assigned to this project with current Development Division uh Mr da did a very good job of introducing this project its basic reason for being here uh so we will go right into where the site's located um this location map everything this site's a little turned so actually to the top left corner is due north on the site and and all the maps that's going to preceding it you see the property outlined in red it's on the south side of Rosland road to the West and East of the property are single family homes zoned RS3 across the street to the north single family homes zoned rs1 and to the South is actually property in the city of Sebastian it is a wetland and Upland preserved land and then even further south is the Sebastian municipal airport aerial map shows the ex existing site laid within the the topography around it uh to the north you see an existing home at 12540 to the very top of this site is a pastor's residence uh the church is the grade out building sort of on the right side of your page with the 12534 address on top of it and then inside the red box is the existing building this is currently a multi-purpose use building that you're going to be converting into the K through 12 School uh Rosen Road out to the left side of your page site plan there is 99 existing parking spaces on the site with some additional overflow gravel parking behind the church the church operates uh every Sunday morning and Wednesday evenings the schools proposed to operate Monday through Friday from 8:30 a.m. to 3:30 p.m. so these uses will not overlap they will not compete for any of the parking on site they just don't operate at the same time traffic circulation plan there's an existing full access driveway out to Rosland Road uh you see the little gray shaded uh sides of the driveway that's additional pavement that's going to be put in there to increase the radius of the driveway the little what's called Turn flares uh the site has an internal Loop that Loops throughout around existing parking spaces but the applicant has told staff that what they're going to do is for any parents that are coming in and dropping off kids they to park in a parking space and walk their kids in and then the reverse when they pick them up Park in there walk in grab their kid and walk out uh that will avoid any kind of queuing within the site or any cars backing up as they're having to get out again you'll see the existing Church in the blue and then the building that's going to be converted to the school in the the red polygon storm water plan all of the blue shaded areas that you see on the site are is an existing storm water treatment facility the two large polygons are actually wet ponds and the two smaller ones are dry ponds they're all interconnected and they work together to treat all of the runoff from Storm waterer events however since the building is existing and no additional parking is required no new impervious areas are being added to the site so the existing storm water system will not be affected in any other way with the landscape plan a type-c landscape buffer is required around all sides of the property on all perimeter property lines existing vegetation and planted Landscaping is it's going to be uh installed along Rosland Road and along sort of the east side of the property just kind of like two property lines but that everything at the top of the page is all going to be newly planted and some existing melded in together on the south side is very densely wooded area that exists is going to remain intact this is actually going to serve as an enlarged buffer for the single family that's further south and west of the property the darker green dots are large oak trees that will remain in place they were planted when the church was built many years ago they've now grown in size and then in sort of in the Southeast corner there's some specimen Oaks are going to remain you'll see there's sort of a white area that doesn't have any green in at all this area the church is asking for a waiver from the type- C landscape buffer which they're allowed to do through the specific land use criteria that would have to be granted by the board of County Commissioners uh staff is in agreement with that waiver request as the land to the side of them or to the to the east of them is wetlands and Upland Reserve it's jointly owned and operated by the county and St John's River Water Management District it's not going to develop so that buffer is really not necessary uh with that we bring you to the staff recommendation staff recommends that the PCC recommend that the P BCC grants special exception approval for the Community Baptist Church K through2 school with the conditions listed in the staff report those conditions are a formal review of The Life Safety plan shall be conducted by the Indian River County Building Division it must be approved prior to issuance of a change of occupancy permit to convert the existing building into a school that the maximum student enrollment shall not exceed 90 students and that any future request to construct any new principal use buildings or add any outdoor lighting to the play Fields either the basketball court or the playground will require special exception approval both a review by this commission and by the BCC uh with that that concludes my presentation be happy to answer any questions the commission may have the applicant is an also an attendance answer any questions you may have uh thank you for your presentation any questions to my right go ahead um I have questions but probably to the applicant um but I also have a question here before I ask the applicant about safety and a plan for security is uh I see a life safety plan what exactly do they have to do in order to have that met so the life to safety plan is actually the interior of the building they need to show to uh the building Building Division that what they're designing on the inside their hallways their bathrooms the closets meet the Florida building code for occupancy of the number of uh people that are going to be actually in the building that's typically required before the building permits been issued and so since that hasn't been signed off at this stage because we're at the site plan stage uh if this is then recommended for approval and BCC ultimately approves it they can move towards their building permit stage and at that point that life to safety plan needs to be reviewed by our building plans examiners and signed off on okay thank you so we'll um have staff questions and come back to you for the applicant question uh any questions on the left here right now I'm not one to uh do a driveby on these things because of qu judicial aspect of it but do you happen to have any photos of the existing building I do actually um you might might not walk up and hand this to you if that's okay thank you Patrick for purposes of the record once that done that has to be submitted to the clerk and everyone else has to be able to see it too [Music] okay that has occupancy of 90 plus staff all those all those people Susan are you wanting that picture to be projected onto the screen that would probably be best if you could so because they need to be able the applicant everybody else needs to be able to see kind of what they're considering any evidence so now that he's can taken that in here and he's potentially considering it as part of his yeah it's thank you so much for 90 you just can't see the depth of it I mean that's I think that's what you're so Mark are you done uh yeah as long as the building department likes it I'm okay okay anything else on this side okay so would you like to ask the applicant a question sure will open hello how are you I'm doing well and you are I am the pastor and the president of the Su school okay and your name John Stevens okay thank you Mr Stevens I'm Terry Borg I'm the chair of the school board how are you I'm doing well good um excited about schools obviously but um want to make sure kids are safe and that you've thought about that have you um been in contact at all with John tesky in the district office I have not okay he is our and charge of our um safety and protocol teams and um he goes and inspects schools all the time for making sure everything is in line with everything we have to do to keep the kids safe I highly suggest you do that before you move much further okay um because you know he can he can come and kind of give you some pointers of things would you repeat that name for me please John tesy tees ke he's head of our security department um so the question I have is where's your fencing on here how big is the fencing where's it located in which part how open is your campus I'm sorry could you please speak into the microphone it's just all this is being record it has to be Beed up sorry thank you so as far as a fence around that specific building we do not have a fence around that building we do have a fence around the play structure that's in front of that building that completely connects to the building so they can't leave the playground once the fence once they enter that fenced area um then along the back side of the building is a basketball court but we do not have a fence that goes all the way around that building how about around the property we do not no okay it's not about keeping kids in it's about keeping people out sure okay so that is another concern I have fencing for your students um do you have a security plan so we're committed to doing whatever the building department says we need to do to be as safe as possible obviously we want to create an environment where every kid is as safe as possible uh we as far as a full-blown plan no ma'am we do not have that at this time but we are committed to making a plan uh and making sure that requires us to have volunteer people there for that specific purpose or even hired people we'll have to make that that decision as we get closer yeah that whether or not to have an SRO on the campus and that sort of thing great um what's your occup occupancy for this um we cannot exceed 90 90 okay and so how many students are you looking at so we don't know we've never done a Christian school before I'm brand new to this um but we're we're hoping that the school will continue to grow over the years I mean if I had to make an assumption I would guess as the years go I mean that first year is probably going to be very difficult to maximize the entire School uh because it doesn't just have to do with the size of the school it's how many teachers we can get how many classes we can do uh so our goal is obviously if we get 40 that'd be wonderful if we get 50 that'd be great uh but in the years to come we we recognize that we could never exceed 90 and we're we're happy with that okay um concern I have is the fact that you're going to park in parking spaces and walk kids in and out um that's a little bit of a hazard for kids possibly getting hit in a parking lot um have you thought down the line of whether or not to have a a car pickup area so we just want to make sure that whatever we do we don't inconvenience our neighbors those that are on the road so we're trying to be as open as we can to that situation as well and uh we're obviously again like I said earlier our our goal is to keep kids as safe as we possibly can so if that requires teachers literally meeting the parents to bring them in and out we'll make sure that happens as well um it won't just be open to however it works its way out we'll have a system in place a plan in place to make sure these kids can get from their vehicle to the school without any harm or any any have you visited other schools similar to yours that you're proposing so we have visited other schools uh both here in our local area and outside of our state just try to get an idea of what that looks like and uh they're obviously uh they run very well and we can mimic those but we haven't made any big major plans because we don't know yet how many kids we're going to have and what kind of obstacles are going to be in front of us but once we do see those obstacles I mean as a church we have 50 kids every weekend coming in and out of our property and it's our goal just the same as on a Sunday or Wednesday is to keep those kids absolutely safe and I believe that's why we still continue to see kids coming and parents enjoying our church because we do a good job making them first and uh caring for them great yeah I'd be happy to meet with you afterwards and give you a suggestion one or two in the area that you could go visit I think that would be helpful that'd be great thank you um big concern I have is safety yes and um just making sure that you have thought of everything you need to think of and that's why I suggest meeting with um Mr tesky yeah that's a great suggestion thank you okay thank you do you have Mr Tess's contact information that you can share with him that' be awesome okay yeah you two get together afterwards perfect thank you appreciate that okay um this is a uh public hearing um so uh I will open the public hearing um please come to either one of the mics state your name uh your address uh and if the point you want to make has already been made please um don't make make the same point two or three times uh so we'll open the public hearing Jeff Klein 12525 Rosen Road I uh bear with me my first rodeo I'm try to go as fast as I can not to take up everybody's time but uh have a few concerns so I managed to talk to Mr Murphy yesterday and he told me some things that answered some of my questions but not not as much as to the extent that I like to know the answers to so one of them off right off the bat would be um I got the letter in the mail two weeks ago today my next door neighbor never got a letter um two houses over it's wrong on your map you have Nancy Lane down 125th Place for some reason I don't know why Nancy Lane is to the west of the school uh Randy Hines lives there two properties away from the church never got a letter it's a public hearing I'm wondering why there's not more people here I'm pretty sure even though Mr Murphy told me they didn't come into the radius these people are going to be directly impacted by the traffic so let me make it clear I'm not against the school got no problem with the school got a problem with the traffic snarl that this is going to create and I'd like to speak to miss Aron Borg thank you um having the parents walk their students in is a real good idea and I don't see as safety concern if they're walking with their parents and what this is going to allow is it allow a little bit more time so you don't have 10 cars trying to get out of that parking lot at one time and that's what's going on with their church service but I'm letting you folks know uh Mr Murphy said there's a radius and those people didn't get the letter because they're in the radius well there's seven houses on 125th Place if you pull up that map one person on that road got that letter one um I I went to Randy hines's house spoke with Randy I said Randy are you aware of this says I don't know anything about it and then we got to talk and he says to me aren't they supposed to post ass sign and I said yeah man I remember specialist hearings you you always see a big sign well I went over to the church the sign is there it's perpendicular to the road it's not facing the road it's perpendicular to the road the speed limit is 45 miles an hour and I measured it it's 17 inch wide it's 10 and a half inches tall the font is this big I can show you pictures on my phone if you care to see it I was 8T from the sign I couldn't read it and I know anybody going 45 miles an hour on Rosland Road can't read that sign and I wonder because I don't know the rules and Rigs of the county is there not a minimum sign size is it not parallel with where people can read this thing I had to drive into the driveway to read this sign so I don't think a maximum number of people have been contacted that have a concerned with my concerns in in mind as well um but this is greatly going to impact the immediate area with traffic so I would request or recommend that the church acquires a bus and can pick up maybe half of the students with a bus or that the school has volunteers as the pastor mentioned maybe to use as traffic control to go out there and let roseen road traffic go in both directions as well as let the people out but something needs to be done because the traffic is going to be bad that's based on 90 students again Mr Murphy said they don't have to do anything up to 90 students and that it did not trigger any kind of extra requirements with with 90 students so am I going to be back here three years from now because they want to expand and put in another building it's going to be 150 students I don't know but these are my concerns and I wanted you all to hear them thank you so for staff were the number of people that needed to be contacted contacted I mean is this accurate uh yes so we have a Land Development regulation it's actually 90212 4 B2 and that requires a 300t radius from the property and all of the property owners that are inside the radius map or touched by it this is the map here um we're notified we have a mailing listing here it was around maybe 24 properties that were in that radius um typically you'd pick up a little bit more within that radius with smaller these are a little larger Lots so the radius expanded out 300 ft from the property that's the number address 300 ft from the center of the property it comes from the center of the property yeah what about the sign are there regulations about how that sign is posted yeah 11 by 17 is our typical size sign that we put out in the property um it was posted in the minimum amount of time prior to the hearing by our code enforcement department well the good news for you is that this board does not not make policy it makes recommendations this will be replayed at the County commission level and you can get your forces together go ahead uh hello my name is Scott H here I live at 8275 125th Place in sunnyfield subdivision it's the First Street next to the church that intersects Rosen Road it's a private road there's seven houses on that street I live in not on lot six on the river I was not made aware of this change at all no one told me but for me I vote no and my reason being there's no infrastructure to support this I've been here since 1980 and uh and over over the last 40 years I can't even get City water but now somebody's going to do this you know this is going to impact negatively every all of us that live there um it there are no streets that actually run perpendicular across Rosen Road that go anywhere until you get to US1 or 512 felir road so all the people at CER Creek uh people like me really local uh anywhere there's a lot of people this will impact that I have no idea that a tornado is coming you know with a hurricane you get a 5-day warning this is like boom all of a sudden you know I found out two days ago so I feel slighted and and I don't think it's fair and I just wanted to voice that respectfully thank you thank you anyone else name is Jeff reel 826 5 125th Place um Sunny field development um just a couple of questions for safety um was a traffic study done or do you need a traffic study is anybody aware also that there was a uh motor vehicle death right there in front of that entrance to the school and that there's been numerous um fend Benders you know let's start with the traffic study um yeah staff so next uh section 95207 of our traffic code requires traffic impact analysis for any project that's going to generate an average daily trip count of 400 trips per day um based on a maximum of 90 students using the Institute of Transportation Engineers traffic trip generation manual uh the land use code which is 2.53 chps per day per student times 90 comes at 223 so it was about 177 trips less than the minimum that we need to actually legally require a traffic impact analysis our traffic engineer did look at the site um and did not warrant any other type of improvements bypass lane or what have you that typically would come from analysis but we weren't able to require one okay will the the speed limit there is 45 now will they lower the speed limit in that area will they have a 20 M hour speed limit at approaching the school leaving the school like they do at other schools um with that and will they put a light in if they feel that the amount of traffic does not constitute a light just like you were saying it doesn't even constitute a traffic study by law so by law there's no way possible that you're going to be in this enforcable to make them put a light at that intersection that school in and I live down in San Sebastian spring so I travel Rosen Road all the time also so I me I understand what about a lower speed limit associated with the school it's SCH on I I could talk to our public works department about that it wasn't any of the suggestions that they passed along to me I mean I can certainly ask him and see if that warrants that you typically see that with public schools that are a little larger has a little more traffic and also has students that are walking to and from school um not knowing what their immediate uh populace is going to be where they're they're drawing them from I'd imagine at first it's going to be the parishioners of the church or churchgoers parishioners I'm Catholic so that's the word I'm used to using um but I can certainly uh go back to the Traffic Engineers and ask him if if that's feasible to do that you know K to 12 you got all the new drivers you know and students bring in their cars to park you know um just a question you know I was a fireman in the Bronx unfortunately went to a lot of accidents I um I agree with your uh concern about that speed limit and this is something that maybe you can uh coordinate with staff on okay um uh I think that's a real valid question good okay thank you yep thank you yep my name is Steve McHugh I'm at 12523 Rosen Road my driveway entrance is basically just a little bit to the west of the entrance into the church so I'm in direct conflict with traffic coming in and out of that thing once that traffic starts queuing in the westbound direction to go into the church I can't turn right out of my driveway and I can't turn left that driveway not right now Services four homes we're not opposed to your school we want your school but in the morning if you go out there at 8:30 and you look at the traffic there's no traffic study but 45 mil hour it's going to be hard getting the queue of cars trying to get into that school and if we have to get out of there for any particular reason sometimes with the church LS out you know it it's tough getting it out of there but every day and morning and afternoon it's going to be very tough getting out of that driveway I don't know if the staff's looked at that I would ask that they would look and see the the amount of traffic on rosand and the speed they're doing and the impact that how many cars are going to be in the queue at one time because once they queue up there where my driveway is located their driveway is over here I'm not getting that I just put my car and park and wait for the school to get all their kids in yeah Val valid concern and I suggest that you coordinate your question with staff okay that well is it part of the record so that staff's got it right now and they should be looking at it or do I have to formally do it don't know so I I just want to I just want to make very clear for the record that I think staff has already said and we can't require the applicant to do anything that's not legally required of them and if this is not a legal requirement we can't require them to do anything extra we can't require staff St to have them do anything extra they only have to do what's legally required of them and for this I mean it since it's not looked at as part of and I understand the concerns for the traffic believe me there's concerns for traffic all over the county but there's um it's not one of the requirements it doesn't meet the threshold so we need to stick to what's the criteria for the special exception and it's the consistent with the comprehensive plan compatibility with surrounded land use adverse impact ta so I just want to be very just caution the board as giving you know what you know recommendations as to what staff should be looking at with um some of the consern the citizens are more than welcome to to give their input and to say that but I just want to just not give anybody a false impression of what we can what the what staff can and can't require of them and what this board can and can't require of the applicant that's all but the applicant could voluntarily the work with these people the applicant could voluntarily yes right this being a special exception does that give us any other leeway no it's it's pretty much the same thing you you approve um approve with conditions deny and when you deny you have to give the reasons for your denial what it ends up is you have standards that you're trying to meet well a standard is set up to do a majority of it there's exceptions to every rule this driveway that that I'm on is an exception to the rule so I understand your standard that it doesn't meet this criteria but it doesn't take care of the couple of items that always fall through the cracks of these rules that are made for the the general purpose of everybody's good but there's always somebody that's suffering no one ever gets fixed completely so if there's an easier way to do it I just ask that you you look into it thank you sir I'm not anti- school and I'm not anti God the uh we have four Parcels there right now the four Parcels are served by the the the uh driveway in my parcel I've got it deed over but there's no reason to believe that in the future once we're dead and out of there and our kids sell that stuff that somebody's going to want to put a driveway out on to Ros road now if there's a high volume thing over here we we got our Parcels assuming that we could put a driveway in there no matter what happens so if these guys get 29,000 more exceptions to end up having a a 40 story school over there we want the ability to have that driveway and I would like that stated that hey you're you're not losing your right to your driveways hello so and I'm I'm sorry but what I'm hearing is kind of limit I can't give you an exact expounded response other than the person that has control over driveways and access um I'm not sure if rosand road is a county road is it a city it's a county road then that would be a question for the public works department they're the ones that issue the driveway permits all throughout the county so I I can't tell you what you would and wouldn't be able to get as they're the ones that regulate because there's certain feat that have to be met and certain setbacks that have to be met as far as Drive so I can't speak to that and the board can't make a promise to that they approved my partials so they approved the partial with 60ft Frontage that's part of the requirements from planning department that dictates that I can put a driveway there they didn't put any exception there oh look you you can't have a driveway here just because I'm utilizing this one doesn't mean that those other three Parcels don't have a right for a driveway and you're affecting the cost of that property if somebody wants to put in a driveway and they're not allowed to because now I have a big trip generator over here that's clogging up the whole works the parcels were approved within the last couple of years so as far as I'm concerned we've already got approval I just want somebody to tell me that I have approval and that it can't be taken back from me down the road so what I would state is you should go to and they're you know they're open every day of the week i' go right down to to the Public's work department um i' bring your plat so I'm sure you platted all this yep bring it down to them have a discussion with them explain to them the situation and get some confirmation on additional driveways for the other properties in your plat and I'm sure that they you know they'll it's not a plat there're four separate Parcels I understand but I'm saying at one point that that was probably one bigger piece was probably broken up into other pieces okay so what I'm trying to say is just go down there and see them with all the different property identification numbers and they will give you guidance and they will explain to you you know what can and can't be done regardless of a school because that school in my instant my opinion obviously I'm not the attorney here the school shouldn't negate somebody having a piece of property being able to access the road off their property especially when there is no other access road so you can't you can't mandate that everybody gets a drive through your property if they don't have any ownership or that driveway wasn't deeded the rights that your driver wasn't deed over to the other three properties it was deed to the other three well then then that's why you need to go see public works right but it wasn't a a mandate that they get deed so because they weren't allowed to have a driveway well that's why you got to go see Public Works see I can't tell you because I don't I don't have all your paperwork in front of me no one here has anything you've done in front of them so they really can't make that kind of decision you have to go see Public Works that is where you're going to get your satisfaction Public Works yes sir sir Mr chairman I'm sympathetic I I wonder if this is ever done it's a small smaller schools where they uh stagger the uh start time by grades or groups of grades and also I was wondering what the rules are for establishing a school zone for speed limit purposes you know and again to you you think about that time talking about the cars and everything but I'm sure that a lot of the people are going to go to the school probably going to be people go to this church they probably have more than one child so you're going to be reducing the amount of cars on the road in reality because a lot of people are going to have two kids in their car or they're all friends and hey today you pick up the kids tomorrow I'll pick up all the kids so you're probably not going to see 90 different cars every day I sincerely doubt that that's what's going to happen um but I just want to kind of put that out there because when you say 90 students everybody's thinking there's going to be 90 cars in a 30 minute span coming in and out of this school which I can see how that would you know be an issue I only need 12 out there and it's going to stop I understand but on the other hand too everybody has their their property rights so they're they're trying to effectively exercise theirs like all of us have done with ours and everybody that builds a house everybody that puts up subdivision they dump onto that road so everybody has a hand in the traffic Jam that occurs from time to time on Rosen Road yeah so we all have a hand biggest difference being is is that I'm an rs1 they're an RS3 and they're they've been Exempted into uh heaven so to speak they get they get all the the good stuff if we went and tried to get any of that we wouldn't get the same the same consideration that's my opinion only but understood but they don't all have to arrive at 8:30 again we again I think she had said that we can't put any special rules on them that aren't in code for us to do with the volume of students that they have I think I think as the amount of students rise I think the standard Rises along with it I'm not proposing that we make a condition I'm just suggesting that maybe the concerned public work with planning and the planning worked with public works or whoever they they need to well I'm certainly everybody's going to try to work together to to to make it easy for everyone this process is really at It's Beginning right now and and I think that a school zone would help slow things down access an e is easier the uh I there I see school zones all all the time there's no school anywhere near like an entrance to Ben Pine for example I have a a question for staff I I know there's another church down on Rosland Road and I think that they have a school there also there is no school zone there he dro the speed there it's down to 35 down to 35 well okay then that's something you guys might want to discuss with staff and and traffic Y and they walk their kids across that little cut Street to get them in sir I'm just curious that's why I was running that through my head thank you and then if I I may maybe it might be good to have the applicant come up here and maybe they can um or tell us if they'd like to implement any of this stuff or if they're willing to work with the community maybe that'll help get some clarity yeah let's let Mr MCH Finish First you have other yeah I just have one more item I want to uh pick up it's uh towards staff you're going to be having now a lot more car cars in and out of that parking lot and you're going to be getting a lot more pollutants being discharged into your retainer system I wonder if uh that's something that you have to look at or is that something that uh just goes with I don't have any more impervious ground and I can put as much pluton in there that I that I can so as part of the process the engineering department did a thorough review of the site as the site continues to develop if there is more development the engineering department will continue to look at drainage impacts um if they end up building additional buildings that could lead to an extension of the storm water ponds extension to the to the uh drainage infrastructure so it all gets looked at at every single stage when it gets built because this site was already completely built out the drainage didn't really need to be addressed at this time and it's it's up to the engineering department to decide if if and when it needs to be addressed yeah that wasn't my question though if they if they did any expansion at all it would have to come back here Absolut use and County Commission yes it's basically like a brand new special exception every time you add to it my question was basically I know that the drainage area is the same water's going to hit the payment the pavement is going to drain off into the drainage system along with that water is coming a whole lot more pollutants because now you have cars parked in there every day leaking oil leaking gas rubber tire more Tire everything's going to go into that pond closest to rosand has the staff looked at what that impact's going to be and do and do you need to look at what that's going to be my question being is that pond discharges into the Swale on the south side of rosand and there's a c right there to the uh west of my driveway and when that water comes across there that directly discharges into my property there's no retainage on that nor swell so I don't want a bunch of extra pollutants coming into my property I'm getting enough of it now so stormwater systems are designed and modeled based on the amount of impervious that is being put upon a property how much water runs off it goes into the ponds and it's treated there's a level of time where it detains and is retains before it's discharge ultimately during heavy flow events storm waterer ponds are not based on the number of cars entering or exiting a site if you have a commercial property and it has X number of square feet of impervious it has to have X number of square feet that it treats that runoff if that business happens to do really good and has more people coming to it they're not required to increase the size of their pond so it has the system designed right now for the amount of impervious that is on the site and they're not adding additional impervious so we can't by law require them to increase the size of their treatment system I think that would kind of be akin to public on Rosen Road 20 years ago they had the same size parking lot and a lot less people and now we have a lot more people they shouldn't have to make their retention larger because now there's a greater population right not worried about the retention again this the pluton is coming out of the pond that I'm worried about now if you're telling me that the the added pollutants are going to get settled out in that pond and in the ditch then I'll take you at your word if you don't if you did your work well it to be honest I believe those calculations of use in impervious area are all calculated into the size of that uh storm water retention right so it so usage doesn't come into it as much because there that's built into that already that hey it's full-time use and they they take that into their calcul ation is what I'm assuming happens when it is designed originally I'm not an engineer right I've dealt with a lot of them and I understand what how storm water works and what the retention does uh with that so uh I don't think that it will increase any kind of pollutant coming through there because the storm water was originally designed to handle that full capacity based on the impervious area so I think those those retention areas are designed to handle that no matter the amount of traffic that com comes in or out yeah again I I agree with that 100% I'm not that's not my argument my argument is is that is a church and when they did it do they have to have 50 cars in there all day long or were they just uh doing the pollutants based on uh Wednesday and Sunday at church they don't do calculations based on Wednesday and Sunday at church I can assure you that it is so they assume that that parking lot is full it has to do with all of those seven days a week yeah it would have to do with full-time usage and everything from my understanding staff correct me if I'm wrong but believe that that's how that's calculated when they when they do that unfortunately engineering isn't here tonight to to address that for us um but that is where you'll get your answer uh on that as well would be to address the engineering department and public works there if you look at the uh the exhibit that has the Retention Ponds in it it just kind of looks to me like they might be overcapacity in terms of retention but you could check with Public Works water doesn't bother me it's tires gas oil coming across the road that's what you said that a couple times so let's wrap it up I'm wrapped up good deal thank you thank you Cliff mchu 12519 rosand r um thank you very much for being here by the way and doing your public service so we appreciate that as as community members um I have a direct question for staff in reference to the last traffic study that was done on rosand did we know when that was traffic study for the entire Rosland Road yes sir I do not was it within the last year within the last three years Last 5 Years would you estimate I do not know when the last study was done on Rosen I would think that would be a necessary conditioned by this point in time on traffic flow right um I can speak to that Andy s director of planning and development services our um County engineering department does periodic traffic counts on all of County roadways and they typically do those twice a year so every six months they'll do a a holistic count on for example Ros rosand Road and those results mean and and how do those results are interpreted and how they used so those results um So based on the design of the road we know what its functional capacity is and as we look at those numbers through time that's how we project out when we need to widen when we need to add turn Lanes or whatever it is right so is where it is it at in its capacity um rosand road is on our long range plan for improvements um it's got some constraints it's limited and RightWay into certain areas but it's it's significantly under capacities as far as you know it's not a failing roadway at this point okay so so I can request a copy of that yeah okay thank you then the second part of that thank you thank you very much the second part of that track trff flow and and not to repeat somebody else is during season versus non-season as residents we know the difference so the timing of a traffic flow could be significantly impacted so I would also requested this was at least during a school year school time right during season to be to be over overly cautious we apply a correction factor to all of our traffic counts so we measure them as if they're at the peak of season all round that way we're never undercounting okay and and the last one I said that too does that include flow traffic flow in other words you can count cars but time no I mean it's just the Val destination to destination because you've only got like we noted earlier you've only got two other exits out of there basically off that long stretch of road yeah well we don't measure flow directly We There is a grading system for roadway capacities and and we assign it a a letter grade um and that kind of speaks to how it's functioning so okay we have a rule in our comprehensive plan that none of our roadways can operate below a level of service D um which sounds bad but it's actually quite good um so that's the standard we're we're shooting for and rosand is what uh it's I believe it's a c so is that approaching capacity yeah once you get past a d you can start to get like cycle failures where you see a red light and it goes green and you don't get to go that's one of the measures of failure but it's it's quite a bit under that at this point okay all right thank you thank you thank you have a good night thank you Mr anyone else good evening Tim bordon 2885 Indian River Drive uh I'm a member of the church I've been helping with the school and I got to say I am so excited that the north side of the county is going to have an option for Christian education um with the way the world is these days and everything going on I think more of these are needed and just to reiterate a couple things school's not going to be over 90 I know there's a all this other assumptions that what if we do this what if we do that we're only here for 90 and I don't even know if we're going to get to that but we want to be able to have the flexibility to get to 90 uh and I also want to reiterate about the traffic um Sundays uh church services when they're overflowing uh between the first service and the second service there's three 300 people between each service so that's the peak time time and the school was not going to be operating any times you know anything close to the church operating um so the traffic close should not be any problems uh whatsoever and with the parents walking their students up um I know you were concerned about the safety I mean I would feel safe with my three-year-old in my hand walking them up to a building versus just opening the door and dropping them off uh I know rosn Christian right up the street does the same practice uh where he goes to preschool now where you actually have to park walk him in check him into the classroom um and do all that stuff but um we had the option tonight we could have packed this room up with with supporters and people who are excited for this um but our church our community especially the north side is super excited about having a a Christian alternative to schooling so we thank you guys for your consideration thank you thank you couple comments one wait wait wait wait sorry somebody else GNA speak anyone else I think I'd be remiss not to say thank you to each and every one of you for for being here tonight to help us through this process I also owe a great debt of gratitude to the county and the staff they we had no idea what we were walking into 12 months ago and we thought we could just start a school and they've been Hospital they've just been great walking us through this and we want to just say thank you to each and every one of you for your support in those matters helping us get to that place thank you Pastor yes sir I just want to make one comment yes sir from what I've heard on Sundays you have a total of almost 300 people there I understand the traffic concerns but at the same time if there's not a problem on Sundays and we're talking about school hours you're at 1/4 of those numbers and like Mr brognano said most of those kids are not going to come in one individual car right so it seems to me as if the traffic is not going to get worse it's going to be better Monday through Friday right during school times just my comment yes I agree with you thank you st thank you Eric sure thanks um couple comments I wish that every parent would walk their child and hold their hand that doesn't happen I'm going to be real honest with you I've been a principal of a school seen it thousands of times where a parent has two children and they don't want to get one out of the car seat they just let the other one run across real quick parents are not in their heads see it every day it's scary I'm just letting you know okay um there are procedures you can do and I'd be happy to talk to the G about that um private schools and public schools are different on their requirements of um lighting of um school zones of things like that I'm not sure exactly if they can get one or not um to get that reduced speed that's why you notice whenever you go by a lot of these private schools you don't even notice they're there because because there's no um speed zone out front um the reason why we have a speed zone or a crosswalk like you said over by Bent Pine is because we have a major M Middle School down the street and there is a crossing guard there and so where you have a crossing guard where you have a study done where you have a lot of kids walking to school uh we require a a crossing guard and so we have to have that ability to stop traffic and move people that's why that's there same thing on Oslo Road you don't see a school there um but there's a school down the street the kids are walking to and that's why you see those um the concern I have about and I hear them with the traffic I get that I've been a principal and and the two worst times of the day for traffic are um pick up and drop off you I agree with you you have multiple kids in the car for sure um at private schools you tend to have um Everybody driving hardly any Walkers unless they live right next door so that's not going to be a big concern as far as kids and their safety that's what I worry about is there a sidewalk there okay good um the other thing is you're private school so you don't have to do the same safety procedures that P public schools do but if you pay attention to the news at all it's not just public schools that have to be concerned about safety private schools very much have to be thinking about that too I mentioned John it's not a requirement to go to John but I'm just thinking you know John works with our schools and he works with the charter schools cuz that's who we're over the school board but we're not over public private schools and I'm all for school choice so um my my thought would be to maybe um pick his brain on some things that could help you with security that's my biggest concern children we need to be safe and safety getting to and from school walking into school walking out of school but also being safe while they're in the building and uh you know that's why I asked the questions I asked thank you good has everyone who spoken who wants to speak in the public hearing very good we'll close the public hearing uh any additional commissioner comments or questions I just thank Terry for being here tonight um you've given us a lot of insight thank you very much for your concerns and your questions I they're U very insightful for what what's going on here so I I appreciate the fact that you have given them some resources to do that thank you thank you and I think um to you guys just in the future not just in front of schools but consider this everywhere sidewalks you know we had a tragedy recently up in Sebastian and I think a lot of it was because of the lack of sidewalks for a child getting hit and killed so um we need to constantly think about keeping Kids Safe all the time thank you good um call for a motion motion to approve with staff recommendations second all in favor I uh approved commissioner matters any commissioner matters I have one quick one all right and I know uh everybody's cringing but how do you know that I um last meeting we approved like 540 units or over 500 units uh and something I haven't heard in the couple years since I've been on the board is that not planners not developers but the general public that I talk to and they don't talk to me because I'm on this port but they all say we don't have enough doctors we don't have an we don't have enough hospitals and this doesn't have anything to do with h Sebastian going bankrupt but uh it's just something I'd like you all to think about because I'm I'm looking for a doctor for myself uh and couple weeks ago the first appointment I could get was in uh uh was middle of June and that it doesn't seem like a long time now but back then it did and so I like I said I just wanted to plant that seed for maybe some future discussion because that's not something we look at in currency wise right we look at schools and we look at traffic and we look at all these seems like everything else but not Medical Care all right very good um I I guess that this is the first meeting where there hasn't been a mailing we're we're not doing uh mailing to Commissioners anymore is that right yeah it's actually the second meeting the fir uh the last meeting we had first meeting for Me So eventually we are going to move to the granus system um the granica system which is our online um system that we use for the BCC meetings um it's going to go for every board in the county um so basically all the packets and stuff will be available online uh to the residents and to you guys um so we don't have to do mailers well we're we're already getting our packets online yes yes that's correct yes but it'll be available to everybody so yeah y yeah all right so they're not online in full we get a a mailing that's got the attachments with it but like the Commissioners don't get it my my commissioner has always complaining about the inability to see these things and uh so maybe this new system will improve yeah that's what uh granicus will fix because right now um all the BCC agendas are online you can go to the agenda click on the link and it'll pull up all of the packet information within that agenda item and this is what granicus will fix for the planing and Zoning Commission thank you uh next meeting when are the uh when when's the next meeting for Planning and Zoning so I believe we are going to be canceling next week the next plan and Zoning because we don't have anything right now um so at minimum it could be the not the one next but the next one after that which would be the end of June yep the end of June yeah this is the second meeting in May cancel yeah we're going to cancel the first one in May most likely we don't have anything at this moment now something could always crop up but right now we don't have anything so a minim it'll be the second meeting in June is it June 20th uh it should be yes okay thank you um planning matters nothing tonight attorney matters nothing thank you excellent