##VIDEO ID:FyWkIFx3sX0## all right let's go ahead and call this meeting of the asan city council the order if we can all rise for the Pledge of Allegiance please doing roll call we are short one C member tonight councilman Steve line said he would not be able to make it due to work and let's see here any public comment this evening otherwise I'll look for a motion to adopt the agenda we don't have any changes do we Josie good evening mayor no we do not okay thank you motion to adopt the agenda again I have a motion from councilman Merill on a second from councilman hren all in favor say I I I all oppose same sign that motion carries 40 moving on to approving the city council meeting minutes we have the August 15th canvas board meeting minutes we have the August 20th Committee of the whole meeting minutes the August 20th city council meeting minutes and the August 20th City Council budget work session minutes motion to approve second I have a motion to approve those from councilman heeman and a second from councilman hren all in favor say I I all oppose same sign that motion carries 40 for announcements we've got our committee of the whole meeting coming up Tuesday September 17th at 5:00 p.m. our Planning Commission meeting that same evening at 6:00 p.m. and our city council meeting on the 17th as well at 7 p.m. and then we have our Park and Recreation board meeting Tuesday September 24th at 6 PM do we have any Council committee reports the uh chamber and Schoolboard meetings were relatively uneventful I didn't think there was really much to bring back this time so uh LMC meets in a couple weeks for the last meeting of the of the year so we'll see how that goes uh there's a couple policies I know that we are kind of hoping to bring forward this year hopefully we can get some traction on those sounds good any other committee reports all right we'll move on to our first business item K1 the roundabout project update geometric layout thank you Mr Mayor members of council um so now that we uh have been able to move into design phase of this project um we went and collected new traffic counts uh kept track of the heavy heavy vehicle the big truck counts the percentages and uh kind of came up with a some tweaks to that original concept and that's why I wanted to bring this to you today it's pretty much just an update uh to let you know where where things are sitting um basically what we found was that with the the amount of heavy Vehicles we found and the increased traffic even from the last counts that it would be a a better functioning roundabout to go what technically by title from a mini where that Center is completely concrete to a small standard roundabout where there is the grass in the middle um basically takes the diameter from the 75 ft that's called a mini to 120t size so slightly bigger um it would have that Center in it but essentially it would make it so that those semis when they're taking the turn through don't entirely block the entire intersection it's the diameter is big enough for them to be able to clear out of the way of the other movements and it gets the intersections slightly far further apart to give those spes to let the vehicles through um so that's the tweak to the roundabout itself and then from the feedback that you guys had given um you know from the original Concepts we we have added that full intersection essentially at Credit Union drive we even added a westbound left turn into it which we found reduces how many vehicles are trying to go through the roundabout and so as long as it's open we're we're letting that function how it would and actually reduce congestion in the roundabout by doing that um and then as you know we discussed also we added that long turn lane into Quick Trip to try and get vehicles cars and trucks to go to Quick Trip without having to go through the roundabout as well again reducing the amount of vehicles trying to maneuver through there um and I guess one other the only other tweak is the the north median um just blocks a a vehicle coming out of the uh the strip mall there from trying to go north which is very unlikely to happen anyway because anybody going north would go out the northern exit uh but we just felt that that was worth making sure nobody's trying to make that maneuver while there's backed up traffic or whatever might be going on uh so primarily those are the adjustments um with those adjustments if you uh look on the figure there we're able to have the two make it quite a bit further before we have to reduce it down to one thereby reducing that fear of the cars backing up all the way to the intersection our modeling is saying the way this is laid out even on those Peak events in 2044 it would only be getting backed up to about Credit Union Drive um which if at that time you know we're only barely getting to that or or you know in that area and we already have the people being able to turn off to go into those other side things that it it looks like it'll function pretty well um so with all that said uh cost estimate wise this was our first stab at it and even with all these adjustments we feel it actually comes out at about the same price that the estimate originally was and so it still fits exactly what has been talked about for Budget cost splits funding and all that good stuff um and I guess with this update I guess if you have any questions or comments otherwise we'd be moving into 3D design to make sure it actually fits into the ground around it and then from there we'll move into that land acquisition thing um you know to figure out what limits of RightWay or or easement we'll need to acquire and that was if you recall all the way back to when we were trying to go after this grant was the driving force because that can take eight months to a year depending on how four projects people are and you know making sure we check all the boxes and so we're trying to get to that starting the land acquisition process as soon as we can so that we know it's not going to be able hang up so with that I guess any questions comments otherwise this is just an update I I think this looks significantly better than what we had and there was I was very happy to hear that you guys did your own sort of traffic study on it because we didn't trust any of what we had to to work with with the first time um one of the things that I thought we could maybe add into that I'm sure you looked at it but a right out uh like an acceleration Lane out of MCO drive there onto Heritage uh eastbound because it looks like there's plenty of room for it there um I worry that that single lane and then trying to take a right off of MCO in during any sort of traffic in a single Lane situation there if you're trying to take a right to go eastbound you're never going to get out of there without an acceleration Lane I think that's a great idea looking at this it I mean it looks like you have way more than enough room there for that is are the colors pretty true to spec to what it's going to be actually the overlay no actually I meant to uh bring that piece up so the purple was essentially the limits of what striping or anything we're going to do um was going to be impacted because like if you look west of the roundabout from the roundabout to the tracks it shows purple all the way there but it's essentially just highlighting that we're going um make that shared use Lane and keep it a single Lane the actual construction limits would pretty much end at about the end of that Median on the uh you know on the west side of the roundabout for like redoing the pavement um it would just be we'd grind off the stripes all the way to to the tracks to relay them and then same with to the east to the uh to 65 um I guess it's hard to Define but if you're looking on the picture there where the the the West westbound left turn lane to Credit Union Drive median uh Kinks so essentially the second that turn lane starts is where we would vary from the existing medium and so really that's the spot that we'd rip off the rest of that median to the west but we'd leave the median east of that as is so our limits would be you know a few hundred feet shorter than the purple in in drawn medium towards 65 and you know 5 600 feet shorter uh to the to the West towards the tracks we constructing the road um the rest is just striping essentially you know visibly displayed on the figure that left turn out of Minco going west if we have a it looks like a turn lane two lanes and I can see all three of those Lanes getting backed up and that left turn could be really difficult during rush hours is there anything else we can do do do address that eliminate it that our that's our recommendation we don't want it yeah well I think I I I personally want it because during regular peak hours you can make that left I just made it on the way here yep but so literally that is the exact movement that will not work eventually I agree and it's it's going to either have to get closed or you know or rerouted and at between now and 2044 that'll be the thing that starts not working but everything else looks like it's going to function how much room I see it goes two lanes all the way to Credit Union Drive what if we box that into one lane a turn lane and one lane a little before that and make some room for a left turn exit so when they get on there they have a little bit of room as traffic's already shuffled all the way to the right maybe sure so actually that's exactly what I already did um if you recall the original one only had a medium that was like six feet wide I had our guys add that turn lane and make it where a standard like 20 foot deep vehicle would be able to get like if you notice how it's kind of like skewed to the left where the actual intersections laid out so it's it's physically already set up where I made that median you can tell it's a fatter medium than any of the rest to have a vehicle fit you know non-railed vehicle but standard vehicle to be able to try and get there because that was my very first concern on the original concept was anybody that half goes and gets stopped is's blocking cross traffic and that still very well could happen you know depending on how that car is up or back or has a trailer or not but uh um dropping the lane earlier was exactly the the thing we were trying not to do so that we could allow the two lanes of turn Lanes coming through and not have to make them merge really ier than they have to which jams them up and so the only thing you can't really tell on this striping is that I believe I believe the southern Lane is the the primary Lane and the other one will merge into it um you know we don't want to have another one of those where the two lanes just blend like they currently do at the tracks and so so we will have that defined primary Lane but um trying to do it as late as we can is better for the um congestion coming off of 65 sure I think it's I think it's great the way that's designed there um I had a question also when you're turning going uh eastbound on Heritage and you take a left on a MCO drive it looks like that median is awfully close if anybody's hauling a trailer of any kind um is there a reason that that median is that far out as it to stop people from going straight all the way across into Quick Trip basically yep I uh again I guess I I kind of made my G my traffic geometric guys extend that okay so that I have median blocking that somebody just trying to shoot across and if you look they've only drawn it in as a little V Kink right now on the other side but to extend the curb to fully overlap so there's literally two rais median things blocking somebody to try and make that maneuver um but yeah it's literally it's intentionally forcing that to feel tight so that it's blocking walking people looking across they it'll look like you only can hang a left because there's stuff in the way and there'll probably even be a sign right there yes facing south that says you know either the diamond or something that's saying you can't go here uh on that note somebody trying to turn left there likely would make that like a surmountable kind of curb or something just you know for the for I'm thinking semi- trucks coming into McDonald's or whatever yeah so um so I can just kind keep adding notes here but yeah generally that's kind of the intent it was to visually block it but yeah there will be that tail end of the trailer smacking movement yeah so the sign location might have to be you know placed well um and then otherwise I think the only thing I see is I think we're going to probably narrow the actual neck up in like at the connection to the Quick Trip parking lot um it's wide right now for the semi vehicle to be able to make the turn and have all the room they want but we're going to want to pinch it once it enter enters the parking lot so people don't accidentally go into it and then they find themselves facing the wrong way and they're stuck so so some tweaks that are still happening but these kind of four major things are the things I wanted to bring to you guys before um we got too far down the road and you know somebody didn't like it uh this same thing has gone to the or we sent this to the County engineer uh he's bringing it to the next committee meeting I believe maybe in a week or so for the the County Board to see it as well and uh and then once everybody's kind of had their chance to look at it you know we'll be moving into that 3D stage of the design so what are we doing with the sidewalk uh that's all the the pink is uh is the sidewalk okay um pretty much you know I guess that that's kind of how it's going to go you can see it it's going on all legs all quadrants sure um it's common that that green between the Pink Walk and the the curb in each of those at least the Northeast and the Northwest quadrants um that can sometimes be a either a colored concrete or a different um you know jointed section of concrete so that large semis that are taking those rights can tail over that as well um but now that this isn't a mini roundabout uh the radiuses are designed to be big enough for that not to have to happen but that'd be that one of those final fine tune design things that would be if uh you know if it turns out the radius is too tight and we're finding semis are going to need to carry over it um we'd either kind of push that out or or just make it a surmountable curb with some concrete for them to be able to and we have easements for all three of these Corners basically no no that's why we are at this stage as early as we are we have to decide on our geometrics figure out how they're going to fit and then literally draw in what easements or rways we need to obtain and that's the driving for us here because that by obtaining that easement in RightWay is is the critical timeline um and we got to make sure that all you know is able to get done if I could add one thing just to make a slight correction is that the County engineer Mr bergerson did have it on the County Board of Commissioners agenda this evening oh so it is in their packet I'm not aware that it got pulled so they should have discussed it around 6:30 this evening just as an update as well they had the our um Jason Cook's uh memo in their packet and that's information they got as well can we go back to my original question about the ride out on MCO eastbound on an acceleration Lane type deal there yeah I can look at that um you know that does merge into you know we got one lane coming out of the roundabout and and to kind of we're going to have to look at whether or not we can have the striping that would define a acceleration Lane I mean even if it's not an acceleration Lane why not have the two lanes and have them used there if they need it because it's just a lot of wasted real estate I see a lot of wasted real estate on this whole thing honestly and it makes me wonder well can we actually fit two lane round a two lane roundabout I mean we got all the space that's with medians and stuff it just and all green space that we still have available it just makes me feel like we could still do a two-lane roundabout but if we can work with this and use all the space that we have would only make sense I don't yeah sure so like I say we'll look into it uh geometrically I don't know that there's room for a lane to be um but you know essentially that is only that wide because again that's where the current curb is and uh you know it's purple right now but we weren't planning on even ripping out that piece of curb or the trail in that Southeast quadrant of cret Union Drive um and so it may not I just see it that's a big bottleneck you got all if in the morning when you have eastbound traffic there's no way you're taking a right automo Drive impossible or during the peak hours which is 11 to 12 or whatever there's there's no way because now you have you have two lane or you have all that traffic coming into one lane and roundabout slows them down so it's bumper to bumper so there's no way you'd ever take a ride out of there if it's only one lane unless you're getting really aggressive and yeah okay yeah I mean Credit Union drive I mean ideally would not exist there yes it's a big connection though that's a lot of people that use it yeah it's still going to be it's still going to be a rough deal for the apartment complexes and stuff trying to get out there too with one lane yep that's why that makes me feel like we could still do the two I mean maybe one lane separate just for that entering or exiting that complex I don't know there's just I see a lot of Green Space grass there that is still not used and Jason so I mean I how did I mean did they just have a bad St it was WSB that did the study for the county right when they originally did I mean so what what leads I mean we we saw at the time when we were watching and their modeling and I M saying hey there's not any traffic when southbound 65 comes in there's hardly any traffic that's coming westbound on five from southbound 65 and I mean we looked at that modeling at the time and thought boy this isn't accurate I mean we could just see that I mean we're we're just a bunch of dummies up here and we could see that you know so how how do how do those guys that are supposed to actually know what they're doing screw that up that bad to where now we're looking at this and having to change our plans pretty drastically actually and can we send them a B for re-engineering um so I mean I don't have their model you know I can't know how they had their setup uh you know they did set it up uh originally based on the pre Quick Trip traffic counts um you know then they had to update them with their newer accounts you know I I just can't know exactly what their process was um you know when we were ready to move into this kind of final design you know we were just wanting to make sure we're using our own data and knowing that we believe and are confident with what we are going to end up building and so so that's why we did what we've done um I mean more or less that's all I could say we do have to make a this a formal report called the roundabout justification report uh to be S submitted to state aid to get approval you know like that shows how we're checking all the boxes of main a design for roundabout and so we needed to have the data and the modeling to be able to make this report so it's it's not an uncommon step that we took right it's just you know our findings just had some tweaks from that concept that was made you know admittedly I mean the roundabout diameter is really the only thing that changed technically from from the original report and they didn't even get into an exact diameter they just called it a mini so you know because it was concept level um our other turn lane things that we've added were things that we've all talked about and wanted to add so we've added them you know so it's much better and I was so happy to see that you guys did your own that I I've been doubting this whole thing from the start just because that poor poor job by that engineering firm to do that traffic study it makes our jobs a lot harder and less confident in our decision so uh I mean do you think there's a danger of not getting the grant because there's such a change then to the original plans or um I guess we did send a a notice to the contact for the grant to say hey this is what's changed um you know let us know if you see any issues I guess I don't know that we've heard back specifically but my grant people are you know telling me they're confident that a tweak like this is just like even the a roundabout is between 120 and 180 foot diameter and it's not like you're locked into a certain diameter from a concept figure so um so it looks like because this is still essentially the same thing that nobody's concerned about losing any funding from it so is that Center Island section is that still going to be a surmountable round but on the outside there kind it kind of looks like a sidewalk like most other roundabouts you can still tail up a truck right yep the the whatever that color is there is a surmountable curb for you to drive over with the concrete pavement and then the green is another curbed Circle within the grass in it how high will the center be from the road the green area um I don't know that by how small it is a foot the intent is to try and get it as high as you can without it being like Steep and non-maintainable because you want to be able to try and block the visibility to have all the people that get gunshi in an intersection you want them to only look at the car coming to them if you coming to a roundabout the only thing you need to look at is a car coming at you from your left at any given time I think just aesthetically I think that's not going to look good right you know I me that's that's one of the reasons why this is to me is pretty irritating because I think the the being able to have the surmountable curb and just drive straight through for these trucks was a better looking roundabout than what this is going to be now so the trucks will end up having I would say an easier time with this because the the turn is not as tight I agree they're going to be able to follow it like they would want to take a larger turn and the back end is going to tail over that whatever color yeah no I'm not saying I'm not saying it's any more difficult for the trucks to get through I I think this is a better a better plan but I'm just saying just looks wise I mean just you think about driving through St Francis I mean those roundabouts just chop the town up those are huge though those are humongous roundabouts that's what I'm worried about I mean is that what this is going to look like you know so I think with how small the diameter is there will be that much less space to make a large you know uh Hill or whatever you want to call it uh but you know that's a piece of that kind of final design the third dimension of this design um that would be getting finalized so I can talk to them about making it as low as we can you know I know the goal is either if it's just going to be grass to make it mowable so it's not going to be you know this crazy steep you know hump but um we could certainly try and make it as low as meets the criteria if that's the reference I think it would look pretty good with a hill and like wild flowers or whatever to block The View like you said it makes people less gunshot and I I've seen the the sural roundabouts and I think they're ugly as hell myself I that was the only thing that I didn't like about them was they're they're so ugly a lot of small towns have them and it's just like what is that you know so at least this will actually look like something so I mean is there any uh with the new data that we have I feel like maybe in just other discussions that I had with some people that maybe a stoplight now was going to be a better option than a roundabout as far as the the grading of the traffic flow and stuff like that and I mean I I pushed for roundabout the night we had that meeting with or not a roundabout but a stoplight the night we had that meeting with the county and we didn't have enough support but I mean with the new data now I mean is the stoplight a better option than roundabout so we did run that um it still essentially shows even just when the original report was made technically it has a slightly better level of service for vehicles um it did in the original study as well but once you fact factor in um cost and well not um primarily that um this accidents and Public Safety side of things with the crossings that they'll be um it's just found that in the end this is very close on level of service traffic function and safer so the recommendation is still this option over the the signal and we have run that evaluation okay I'm with you Jimmy on that stop stop L but the only reason I'm considering this is because the first person who runs a stop light T-Bone somebody and kills somebody then I feel it's on my conscious because we didn't do a roundabout it's pretty hard pretty hard to t-bone somebody in a roundabout I mean yeah we're going to have accidents in it but I don't believe they're going to be lifethreatening like like somebody running a light you weren't on the council at the time that we decided this were you nope too many people run stop lights we see it on 65 all the time at least the this slows down traffic you're forced to slow down this gives a lot shorter areas for pedestrians to cross I mean the traffic flow is just significantly better you don't have to worry about any sort of backups because of poor light timing because you know the county and the state on lights they're not going to work well together just like everything else like it that's a nightmare I think but I would rather see it left the way it is before putting a stop like in myself but I think I still think there's room for a two-lane roundabout I had a question so with the with the mini round about with the uh the center being all concrete during rush hour the emergency vehicles can go right through that are they still able to have enough room so that in R the rush hour of this mini or this roundabout the emergency vehicles will be able to get around all the cars in the roundabout so so I don't I don't know if that initial statement is quite I guess right um if there's vehicles in the actual pavement around a mini roundabout they're still going to have to clear out of the way for an ambulance to make it through yeah but um the mini roundabout had the whole Center Concrete and then if it was rush hour emergency vehicles could go right over the middle of is is there going to be enough room for emergency vehicles to go around cars that are in the roundabout this this drawing so it essentially would be the same in that if a semi is going through it the semi is tailing up onto the middle curb it's going to probably be blocking things until it can get out of the way either way it would have um if it's not and these are all just cars and they're not up on that middle conrete then yeah then there's that extra kind of almost like Lane almost for the emergency vehicle to be able to cross onto that if that is in fact needed um is that about 10 foot 8T or 10 foot that little surmountable curb yeah yep that's what they usually are okay so you could use that worst case scenario worst case scenario but essentially with that you know with the roundabout it's all exits right so um if one if an ambulance is coming up it really should only be the vehicles in front of it that are needing to clear and the other ones aren't coming in because there's an ambulance and so it's kind of one of the easiest things to clear where nobody is in that red light stop condition of a stop light and they're like not sure if they're supposed to dive out into the intersection or how to get out of the way this one's as clear as day as how to get out of the way people do some weird things when the emergency vehicles come up behind them they get freak out they do yeah and they freeze mhm sometimes they don't move at all so the freezing you know it's the same idea of as long as they can get by a car they'll be able to get through the roundabout but you know I guess it's that same idea if they're freezing and they're blocking yeah the lanes of traffic I just want to make sure there's enough room or the curbs are you know they're not the 90° curb so are they all surmountable all of them basically on this whole project are around on the Center anyways yeah around the center for sure okay um usually the noses on each of the medians are just because of trailers vehicle movements yep um and then those outside radiuses usually are depending on how long those radiuses can be and you know whether we're worried semis are going to try and go over them um hopefully these are long enough radiuses where that doesn't need to come into play but is there any benefit to doing a 90 instead of just doing the 4in surmountable the whole on that whole the medians everything because if say like an emergency responder vehicle there's a big crash intersection they have to drive up on that it's a lot harder to go over a 90 than it is a a 45 or whatever angle they are could we just do that on the whole project I mean what's the benefit of having a 90 a 90 degree curb versus a 45 degre cementable or whatever you want to call it I mean I can I can look into it usually on the narrower medians you know it's the high back curb to definitively stop cars from hopping it and going into the oncoming traffic um because if you say you lose control of your car that 6inch curve is actually going to help redirect you Cal isn't um so those straightaway parts are usually the highback curb and then anywhere we're trying to make a tighter turning movement or where we'll shift to the surmountable to make up for the people that quite make the maneuver you know how we're we're trying to direct them to okay um but we can certainly see how much of it we can make surmountable do you have a another diagram with footage I'm just worried about that eastbound not a quick trip on a semi it's really close it may not be but I I can't tell how many feet this is eastbound turn auto quick trip I mean if they're coming out of quick trip and heading towards 65 heading east Oh you mean making it all the way around the roundabout all the way around that's what I meant all the way around that's why it's better that's why he said that's why this damer is that's better this one than the last drawing coming out a quick trip heading toward 65 yeah there's so much more so much of a different perspective the way this new diagram is so it's hard to tell mean I like this a lot better than the original plan other than other than the center being in an iore I think it'll look better I I really do but I mean if we were to try to switch to a stop light now I mean you're not going to get that Grant probably and it's going to be a nightmare right so and it wasn't I don't think it was a close vote on the stoplight was it no it was me and Steve it was me and Steve and and Mike Warren if he would have been here I think would have been would have been on board where where I don't know where you would have been at on that but I think roundabouts work most of the time but there are issues that when there's high volume of cars it's hard to get out from like Credit Union drive and go to 65 it during shower because the roundabout is so busy and it's constant flow and it's hard to get out that's why you got to have that turn lane yep so if you could add an a turn lane by Credit Union Drive well you guys acceleration Lan yeah just you have toe to get out I think so too because I wish there was some way to do that same thing for the apartment building right too it's not just an apartment you know it's as businesses sometimes there's high traffic businesses and four apartment buildings and yeah and there's a learning curve with roundabouts still even though there's a lot of roundabouts around now but they're still a learning curve is there enough room to do a lane an alternate Lane just for that so you have say like you have now you have it curbed out um down to a single Lane but what if you had instead of the that pink and green area there you just had a lane just for coming out of the out of that apartment and going back and then merging after is that not feasible just because of the lift station or is that just because it's different well I guess I'm not sure where how you mean merging after you know that's the problem there's only the they they have to merge into traffic are you saying to make the entrance the exit so kind of flip-flop it so they'd be coming out and have time to get out into the lane before meeting the roundabout no no no I'm saying if they had their own dedicated so if you look at the the about design the south side where you have the green stripe and then the pink stripe for the sidewalk and that colored cement or whatever you talked about instead of the purple exit going in and them somehow getting into traffic there when it's already zipper emerging what if that was just their own lane where the pink and the green was and it was curbed off and then they had to merge after the roundabout yeah is that impossible I mean is or is it just strange take away the the sidewalk basically and the Green Space there yeah yeah but you you'd obviously have to add that on the side of that which I mean yeah and then they're not able to actually yeah I mean that would be a a side lane that doesn't actually interact with the roundabout or it's not going to work and it would that's what I mean it it have to be curbed off so it's not even a part of the roundabout right so then they'd never be able to go north or any other direction they'd only oh yeah true yeah and and then that would be significantly more land into that uh uh our lift station there you know this footprint really is almost touching our lift station on the bottom left and touching Quick Trip sign on the top right and and we just anything after this with at those two points is going to be relocating one or the other and be a significant cost change okay well what do we tell those people with that business those businesses there on that um hope for a connection southbound at some point like we' disgust her I mean I was actually just I don't think the stop light fixed that problem either I mean it was no good solution really but now you have two lanes merging into one and then another Lane trying to enter so it's three into one it's a huge bottleneck yes yeah no it is definitely more of a bottleneck than it is now it's it makes everything else better I think but it makes that much worse do we know why it's one way in and one way out I was wondering that too is are those signs put up by the city or were they put up by the the mall when I came in to town there weren't signs but it was one way in one way out and we added do not enter signs on the exit Road when we added the sidewalk through there and that's when we added the signs but it was already an established one of each I'm tempted to say we evaluate making the other one just wider yeah it needs to be much wider even right now turning right into there I go to the gym there turning right into there when you're going eastbound it's still hard for whatever reason it's like that I don't know if that's not up to code the way it is for even just one way traffic and also the difficult thing is is last time I was there last week there was a car coming out the in so and people were wanting to get in and they couldn't get in because one was going out the wrong way so I mean traffic as well so they might be forced to have to do something with it if the exit on the east side is I mean I would say that work would just be part of our project cost because sure we're already going to modify the exit of the one and we're already going to be trying to get easements and rways to just modify you know change that to 26 feet wide and you know redo their bit of curb and lose a stall that's you know you have to work that out with that's half private you know and whatnot to to get all that part worked out but you know if we at least made that both way option and we still had the exit only over by the roundabout you know now we got two ways out exactly yeah so okay I like that option I was I was going to say something before you mention that because that's a really good solution for that okay so tell me more about this this center lane uh westbound after the roundabout how is that going to be used is that just a dual purpose turn lane or can people ride in that no to try and zipper later or no this is to maintain the single Lane the second you merge getting into the roundabout you stay that way all the way through town or this is already how we're striped all the way through town on this side of the tracks so it's just keeping it consistent okay there's no creative way to use that space for I mean right now this looks great for this intersection but what about in the future when we have to look further down I mean I I think it works I mean it's a turn lane either direction and at the railroad crossing it's two single lanes and that's all the wider the planking is and to get into that is a whole lot of fun to mess with ra Road and trying to widen an arm Crossing to add a lane or anything so so now if you're going off of Doan Street and you're going to take a left to go westbound on Heritage are you allowed to use that center lane as an acceleration Lane because right now there's kind of two lanes you can get into there and then merge is Travis okay done that before I do that all the time I right that's the only way you get out there you use both lanes cuz you have to yep it's called a shared use Lane it's not called a turn lane okay know so it's okay don't ask questions I don't mind that part at all nothing I'm just I was just looking for a clarification I don't mind it either but I do like the idea though of widening that entrance if we can work with them to to do that to be in and out on that west side of the parking lot the department complex all right yeah you need us to vote on this or anything like that or you just just more of an update for us update just you understand that uh you know these tweaks happen we got some more tweaks to try and incorporate I think it's going to look good and you know once we get into this 3D phase of cross slopes drainage all that good stuff we'll know if any other tweaks have to happen and then it's getting into that land AC step so y I'll find out what the county had to say as well and see if there's anything else to incorporate but okay that MCO acceleration Lane is a must I'm I'm if we can't do something with that I'm going to vote no on this when whenever vote comes so I just want to make sure that's important I think the vote's passed already well still a vote against it you can certainly voice your opinion anytime you want all right well sounds good thanks Jason I appreciate you bringing that information so y thanks yeah moving on to K2 we got the 2025 preliminary budget and Levy adoption good job Jason all right mayor council I'll uh I'll go through my standard presentation um I think everybody's seen it a few times Steve's probably thankful he's not here because he's already seen it 15 times I was gonna say I wonder if that's why he had got himself into a messy job today that thought crossed my mind yeah yeah mine too so um but nonetheless I've uh I've been sick for the last week so I will probably try to shorten things up so I'm not totally without a voice tomorrow um so this is one news slide I added that uh we've established the council goals as being you know three-pronged quite some time ago um kind of added a little bit of commentary right no debt paid with taxes that's a goal we're not there yet but um I think it's September 2030 August 2030 something like that we'll get to that point right and the thing everybody's heard me say a thousand times right buy three get one free right this is by not by not issuing debt and saving money on that interest um you can literally pay for an entire project um fund balance right um provide tax relief when it's needed most right when you have those that you know the Great Recession Great Depression those types of things um and based on the conversation last time I just want to make sure I plant that seed in everybody's mind that you know while each of us have a definitive timeline and we may or may not think that it's going to happen in our timeline the city exists in perpetuity so it will happen for the city even if none of us are here so um and then first we talked about a steady declining tax rate right we've gone over that a bunch of times that at some point you've got to join the um the OS of the world and uh and be able to compete on that uh on that metric and um it's not a thing that happens overnight but you can take bites out of it over time keep knocking it down do doing your best uh over a long period of uh of time right and I've told the story few times right um you know people really just don't want to be surprised when they open their tax bill right when they open that they want I feel like there's some certainty um some consistency from the prior year so go over the go over these real quick this is maybe not as much for the council but maybe for anybody that might be watching uh live or uh would look up the YouTube video after the fact um you know municip Municipal budget is a big document lots of numbers um lots to consider um and so really the way that I do this way anybody does this is you break this into smaller bits pieces that are a little more manageable a little more easy to grasp and then you work on those smaller components individually um right first category operating Revenue um this is uh operating revenue is expenditures right this is going to be uh levies um rates right this might be rental rates at the ICC or something like that um this is a competency I think is pretty much easy this is the kind of thing anybody's really paying attention should be able to take care of that um inter intergovernmental renes um here in Minnesota LGA right that's the big thing um and there again um if you're getting money from another you know whether it's state or federal another or uh level of government um there you will be compliant there there are legal mechanisms to require such um then there's the capital projects think about this is projects that need an engineer right this is capital items that need an engineer um to be honest you're you're competent in that mostly by paying an engineer to be honest maybe burst some people's bubbles sometimes but um that's what you do um then there's the capital maintenance and replacement and this one is the one I think that is the bread and the butter this is the the marginal competitive Advantage this is the thing that I think most other cities do not do well um there plenty of counties that don't do it well um but this is this is I think our our competitive Advantage right um Capital maintenance and replacement these are non-engineered projects by and large um or at least minimal engineering and the goal is you list everything right from Tuck pointing brick work to roofs to Windows to Squad vehicles to trailers you name it um and having those things out there and looking at a far enough timeline that you can give yourself a an understanding of where you need to be today so that you're prepared at 20 and 40 years out in the future um fiscal management this is really the secondary item here is we've got those components but it's it's really important to be considering your timeline right and most cities when they do this they're looking at maybe five years a few of them maybe do 10 but by and large you're not going to find any cities that are looking out Beyond 10 years and we do that very very differently here um and if we're the only ones doing it I'm okay with that because I'm very confident that's the right answer um but I think that's the in the end that long-term planning is is how you're going to end up with a tax rate that can be steady and declining it's never going to be able to go down every single year but we can certainly uh we can certainly put together a good Trend um and that leads me to uh to the to 2025 propos Levy um not a not a super big increase in the general fund Levy uh a little bump there in capital maintenance and replacement a more significant bump in Street construction as we kind of get that all uh um fine-tuned we remember we couple years ago we went Jason and I went through and reworked that uh five ways from Sundays and we're actually doing a little bit more of that today we'll come back around with that in uh in October probably with some more recommendations about how we can swap things around and get a save a little money on mobilization right pull some of those Mill and overlay jobs together move some of those Steel Coating jobs group those things up a little bit better in the in the coming years and uh and hopefully save ourselves a little money on that so um the Eda Levy um that's that's a statut statute thing right that's capped based on estimated market value um I went below the cap on that this year just because we've we've got sufficient Levy there um bement Levy this is really regarding the hotel project and I have to be able to delineate that for um for the Department of Revenue at the end of the year they've got stuff that needs to be submitted by December 28th so got to be able to detail that um and then Debt Service Levy the 203 385 um that is just one Dead Issue and that's the one that we're going to come up here on the end in 2030 um that relates to the uh the I right the the indoor arena I have a quick question uh The Debt Service Levy is went down every year and this year it increased by a couple thousand can you explain why I couldn't figure out why it is it is it is all in the end it all comes down to when you issue bonds let's say um you issue a million dollars of bonds you're not actually issuing a million dollars of debt to one person that is being divided up into what they would call tranches right so different years and different maturities and based on what the bid is on those individual ones some years have slightly more interest than other years based on what the market bid at the time you issued the bonds so you will have little you're not going to see a you're not going to in the future years you're not going to see a wide variation from that in your mind you should just be thinking of it as about 200,000 every year and it's not you know you're never going to see that all of a sudden now change to 275 or drop to 125 it's right in that range and it ends up being based on what they bid in particular years for that issue so were they trying to predict you know years down the road what the interest rates might be is that yep okay yeah that's every every yeah and you don't normally see a bunch of that stuff and hopefully we're just not going to issue a bunch of bonds and you guys won't become familiar with that process at all but amen but that that is how that works it is not quite what it looks like it looks like a a loan right here's my million dollars here's my loan this is my one rate but it's actually a whole series of $100,000 uh transactions at different rates based on their maturity they're more risk averse that way with their money and it matters great deal with treasury yields are and you know you might get a great rate at um you know on stuff maturing in the first year through the third year but then it goes up through the fifth and seventh year but then comes back down because there's a more you know more Rosy long-term View and and those will change with every bond issue every year that any City issues those things will it would probably be a pretty bad time to issue a bond right now if I were to guess a new one always a bad time is I agree but right now especially kind of half waiting for that um uh proposed tax rate um right now we've got this set for substantively a zero change um 0 two% um and that's just because I picked a whole number right and no matter what we set here this isn't going to be like the final right there's always got some adjustment at the if the assessor's office either of their own fruition or because somebody has challenged their valuation and that gets settled in December or January or March or next April um and if it really goes out far enough there would be a correction backward um that that would affect things so um I think the more important thing here to think about it more interesting thing here rather than just a 0% change is um how far below that is the the 15E average uh 2010 to 2024 um and remember 2024 includes the 44.8 right like um that's a that's a long ways under nearly a third under the average that's that's pretty cool now I I of course had to call Mike and ask him today how do we get that 02 to zero he said we need to come up with 500 bucks so and I and I couldn't help myself I had to redo the math very particularly so it's 650 okay so well is that and then we started talking well was that now if we go to the three digits from you know it's virtually zero but but but if if we want PR if we want to get it to if we want it to be as precise as it can be today because you guys instruct you want zero change you would we would when we go to passes we would drop the general fund Levy by an additional 650 bucks okay so so if we just call it like a thousand we'd be safe too that might actually yeah but then it might be negative that be okay that'd be okay with that so that would be what I would ask is let's just drop the general fund Levy by $1,000 quick question I see the central ER is up and it was like4 some thousand mhm um what did you say George the central air conditioning for for the city hall is up when I walked out of the last meeting somebody stopped me and asked me if we could please turn down or turn up the temperature in the chamber because it was so cold in here if we had a problem with the air conditioner my my theory is if it's not broke don't fix it and yet we're going to replace it so there's a couple things is one part of the problem we have over here is the air exchanger has not been working in this section of the building since day one so that's part of that problem on which side this from the hallway this way so this this room you're saying is the warmest room no I'm saying you're not getting the air flow that you you would think that you should get throughout the building right like what we get for airf flow on the other side of that door versus what's on this side is not the same those are according to numbers and what what they want to sell you on but this is this side from that hallway over is used the Le least mhm all right I wish Steve was here but I I would guess you know you you could have 10 15 more years on that air conditioner so the the what useful life in the capital plan is 20 years and we pulled that forward and we pulled that forward because there's going to be new Freon standards right and so we can basically wait and we know that price is going to jump from 40 up to about they figured 70 I think 72 something like that so we're gonna go up like 30 grand so if Council wants to wait that's fine but I think that as we approach 20 years personally I'd rather take the sure thing and save myself 30 grand but do we know that for sure that those you know the first one or two years production usually they are higher but after that then they they come down I am not an expert on that well you're pretty certain it's going to go up 30 grand if we wait well if I but I have that's what that's what mechanical or our mechanical contractor said he's like just so you know here's your here's your two choices this is how this is going to end up going so I've heard the same thing have we had service calls on this unit at all over the last five years yeah we've yeah we've had repairs at least twice here and then the uh Community Center too is in there but I'd have to find specific dates if you want dates but yes we have had repairs I mean I can tell you right now it's 67 degrees in here according to that thing over there so it's it's always cool in here I've never been warm I've never noticed anything but well council chambers AR always a tricky one to get right at a meeting because if I have 18 people behind me yeah it's a lot warmer in this room than it would be if I have two so that's always a tough one but I think we can dig into a lot of that stuff I mean remember that we're still just talking preliminary you know budget here right now and so you know we obviously are hoping to see some other decreases in other areas too so so we'll have till December to really hammer away at this thing but I think you know today I mean the goal was just to make sure okay we're going to have you know a z% and yeah and if and if C and you guys don't even actually technically have till December right I mean you can just say you know you can think about this and Jeff might come in on February and be like you know what I have asked a thousand Mechanical Contractors on this and no this is a terrible idea let's just wait we just amend the budget and just push it out that's that right so this I mean this isn't I mean while things are scheduled you know especially with the capital maintenance and replacement plan like none of it is like definitive happening I mean the only things we might act on like immediately would be ordering a plow truck or a squad vehicle those things that have that huge lead time where it's like you're just hoping that maybe you receive it inside of 12 months you know those types of things we don't spend a lot of time waiting on we're going Place those orders on January 2nd but this type of you know siding and air conditioners and things like that you we're not nobody's doing anything on that on January 2nd so um Levy history I guess the the big thing here to notice is over time it goes up right um and even if you had a stagnant population a stagnant City nothing changed um that bar graph would keep going up just because inflation is effective right um tax rate history um yeah I mean that one graph is a uh you know a tale of of Tale of Two Cities or Tale of Two stories right um you know you know a nearly 10e period up and a and now a nearly 10year period on the downward Trend so that that's a that's more like what we'd like to see the second half of that graph um yeah and I touched on that right right um I don't spend a ton of time talking about levies um tax rates are a way better way to compare across between cities and across time um or even both um levies are not super helpful um I give you guys the example when we get to Fe to December meeting because usually I have at least some residents watching right and we say hey this one's got uh you know a levy of you know a few hundred thousand this one's got a levy of a few million where do you want to live well it turns out you don't want to actually live in the city with a really small Levy because they actually have a really high High tax rate so you don't necessarily know that but if you have if I just give you two tax rates it's not hard to figure out which city you want to be in right I'll wrap it up with that if there are questions comments concerns um oh last thing I should note is if if anybody didn't find it we'll um we're using uh per Direction at the last meeting we're using 158,000 and change on uh fund balance right to keep to get to zero at least for now and um we'll drop it out another thousand perhaps if that's how something it would be to 159 and change so which like we talked about I mean that should be and I don't know if you did the math on that mic but we're at 54% right now fund balance and we thought it would bring us to just little hair under 52 basically so which like I said I mean I don't know I mean how much we should really be having in there I mean I'd be okay with it maybe even going lower than that I completely disagree with that I know you do I think there's I mean what if we need to what if we need to if there's a a big recession say for five six years and we got to sort of help our people out for five or six years that money will be gone so fast it it it takes a long time to build it's really easy to empty that account so I have a hard time even justifying the 158 but with your you're usually overestimating on most things so I think that'll you know I'd rather see us take nothing out of that myself and not add to it but at the same time I get the goal here how much of your residents money are you going to hold like you said sitting at 54% yeah but you don't want to hit them when they're down and you need to tax higher aren't they down now well right that's why I'm I think it's okay but that's yeah and like what did you say Jee you thought you know if we if we continue this pace I mean we're going to see a fun and balance that's I think it's G be at 62% but Mike disagrees yeah I think it would be lower than that but we're we're we're going to find out who's buying who dinner in in uh April right so y I'm okay but hesitant with the taking it out of the yeah and I think I mean that should be done cautiously and carefully but this is not set you can still cut stuff right so yeah and I think that's that's the thing too is that you know if we don't have to use that to to hold this rate we we have till December to you know like George said if we want to hold off on certain things you know air conditioning being one of them or and we and we know that there's still information to come right right there are Insurance renewals not just one that I think that I have been sufficiently conservative with hopefully um and hopefully that when the actual renewal comes in it is below what I estimated and there is extra money to be had there right and and then suddenly that number goes from 158 to to 100 or to 50 or whatever the you know um you know so I mean we we're gonna have to wait and see and I'm I mean if if memory serves me correct we should expect the first full week of October So based on one the first is it will feel like the second week of October but that would be the rough timeline that I should have a number by so hopefully for the second meeting in October we'll have a something to discuss and what happens worst case if the insurance rates go up 30% then what for us no I think Mike has already factored in them raise on the rates compared to what we have now haven't you yeah I mean if the numbers coming astronomical then what then we're taking more of our fund balance because we didn't Levy for enough initially always that's the only way to get out of the hole looks like there's no air conditioning getting replaced all right true oh I think that I think that my estimate is reasonable okay I've been doing this a while little while and um let's just say this when you get when you are in a group a larger group right so a group with multiple CI ities and counties and you start for example when we when we left the co-op it was because we had a 28% renewal and Princeton had 50% increase in their rates for for those of us who were PID attention to that that wasn't a variation that came out of nowhere right the highs and lows at the co-op had been much closer together and over time they started doing that more and more and it was once that spread got to a point where you had some people renewing at five and some people renewing at 50% like you know there's a problem in that Consortium right that that doesn't that's not a thing that happens overnight and you can see that trend line coming I don't see that with peep I I think their trend line is actually the other direction now they had for a 10year period their average renewal had been like 2.6% we moved to them and a lot of people moved out of the co-op because of what I just described and in those first two years years they went way above 2% on renewals right we're talking a lot of groups in that 10 15 20% range but now that they've absorbed those groups and the market has balanced itself out I think you're going to see that return to to a a more reasonable Trend in the long term and and Pete by the way is I think I think has the incentive structure um to help keep costs down in the long run because when you when you in peep um as an employee when you go to the a doctor you actually have to pay money right and so that and that's a really important detail because it keeps people from just showing up at the doctor for a paper cut right like if your paper Cut's infected fine go but don't show up for a paper cut and if they want to do that they actually have to pay money out up front until they get to their their uh DED deductible threshold so that that is a really effective uh incentive structure for that program um but yeah if there are any other questions um please let them go otherwise if we're if we're comfortable with the resolutions that we have we could do them sequentially as they're listed or you can just say all three uh with our one adjustment for a th000 bucks any other questions well I'll make a motion for all three then with the the, reduction to the general fund levy on the uh third one there hold on I thought he was gonna are you g to talk about the comp comp plan at all and are you going to move I see hav't highlighted um well the CIP plan yeah are you because it looks like you're going to start it next year you have it highlighted are you going to move out um the comp plan for Tyler and for Street the comp plan you mean CIP plan the in the CIP document that you have in the packet yeah it's in for what 27 2027 2028 okay right so and the highlighted means that it was moved beyond that but it didn't show it in the graphs I could have an errant highlighting on that one okay I I suspect that's leftover highlighting from when I needed updated numbers from Jason right because we Revisited hey is this is this an accurate assessment of of what that cost would be for the project okay so that's what I'm thinking is you're seeing there so that'll all just get moved over yep my understanding from the council is we want to have money there so that if they want us if they want a petition and be you know and have project done we will be prepared to do it but otherwise the understanding is and I have that well if you if if I give you if you had my Excel version you see there's a note in there and it is and it's also noted on the lefthand margin as resident initiated right otherwise residents don't initiate it it just keeps okay keeps ticking back out and if they come in you know four years or 40 years and say we want this done we're we're just ready to pull the trigger and go maybe next year we work on a letter I like how when we we've been reaching out to the residents we've been getting great response rates maybe we need to you know give a letter to both of those streets and see what they're really thinking about and if put a questionnaire out yeah I think that was I feel like I feel like this was you and I that originally talked about how to structure this but I mean that was the thought was is that if we cue this up as early in the plan as we can without having a massive impact in the Levy right that's how we ended up in the years that we ended up up with as close as we could pull them forward in time without having a drastic change um that was just giving those residents by default maximum flexibility right give them as many options as they can right sure we can pull the trigger as early as 2027 in 2028 and in theory you pull the trigger any year after that do I just keep pushing it back one year until they actually come in and say yes please and if they don't then we don't do it and we just keep keep pushing it out yeah I mean the whole idea is to not force them to have to go off of what they've and whether it's four years or 40 years at some point they're all going to come together and say this is just in our best interest all the wells have failed all the septics have failed the roads you know some point they'll say that they want to want the project done but it should be when they're ready not not five council members saying toughies here it goes so okay I just wanted to make sure because it's highlighted but the numbers are still there for next year on what I'm looking at so I just want to make sure okay okay I'm all right I'll second it okay so I have a motion from myself and a second from councilman heeman all in favor say I I I'll oppose same sign that motion carries 4 Z thank you Mike thanks Mike uh moving on to K3 the resolution to consider amending the cup for winter greens to add pickle ball good evening mayor and Council so we had an applicant Mr Stasi who is located at 306 Credit Union drive for winter greens had an approved uh cup for um to put up uh volleyball court over there and they in the B2 business district uh that was approved in 2016 the request uh was heard before the plan Commission on August 20th and there was a public hearing held and that was approved and recommended to go on to city council uh there are some recommended recommended um things that be followed uh per this request which is the pickle ball courts will be fenced in and the boundary will be in line with the existing fence of the adjacent volleyball courts to not impede upon the drainage and utility easements there will be grass maintained between the curb cut in the parking lot and new pickle ball courts to allow for continued drainage and all required permits will be applied for including but not limit to zoning building and Electrical uh and this is actually on the um adjacent lot just to the South which would be at 304 Credit Union Drive motion to approve second I have a motion to approve from councilman Merill and a second from councilman hren all in favor say I I I'll oppose same sign that motion carries 4 Z moving on to K4 the resolution to consider authorizing the contract with digit ticket mayor and councel just a little background so we're in l records management since 2007 um they made a transition to this Oracle records management for ourselves as well as the other two police departments and County the county actually picked up the tab for that for three years I think they're AR arpa funds which which was a significant benefit to us um anyway that Oracle needs a third party ticket writer program that's the what this is to enter into that agreement the counties already agreed to it so if we want to write tickets we got to agree to it as well um the letg annual maintenance that we have budgeted for $9,300 for 2025 is still in the budget because we should be transitioned before then and we'll be able to make that Amendment hopefully by the end of this year year um and then this is The Upfront cost is the 334 and annually is the 56 5,664 um so the as long as we get this going and Oracle on board by the end of the year that LG maintenance for 9,300 would switch over to the digit ticket for 56 now at year four there's going to be some Oracle costs as far as that too that's do you have any idea how much more how much more the Oracle cost is yeah we had that I don't know Mike do you remember what that was I gave you that substantial or not substantial no I mean it's more now because we have to pay for digit ticket and this Oracle piece it's going to be more but it's not substantially more as far as the Oracle piece is not substantially more than the the uh LG piece as well as there's not um everything is every four years we have uh every four years is a $3,000 maintenance fee that pay to the county for the server which then will fall off that Capital plan too just another one of those technology pieces I mean it's 100% software all of this is 100% software based and data storage I was looking at the bid it says says that it and I don't know and the Oracle mobile might be something different I guess than the regular Oracle program or something like that cuz it says it's not integrated currently but they're working on it yeah so it's not so that's part of the deal in order to get them they need that's that's on the agenda tonight because Thursday is the kickoff to actually have it integrated so they're working so the third this digit ticket has to work with Oracle manufacturers to get it integrated and hopefully we'll know it should be integrated by the end of the year I mean there's a lot of steps to that whole Oracle piece with we've been working on that since February yeah they haven't even started trying to integrate yet no no and so we had a meeting two weeks ago and they kind of wanted to know what the entity thoughts were yeah and uh the county already has their the county agreement think Cambridge has the coun you know so county has a resolution and Cambridge has the resolution so they're moving forward with that okay so mean do we have to start paying if they're not ready to go mean according to the contract or I mean is it well the upfront fee yes but not the actual application monthly fee so once they're ready and they actually have it done then we have to start paying okay yeah okay and I don't the dates are interesting because the whole Oracle date of was July was this go live date and now we're out into October so well well yeah that's yeah but that's kind of how that stuff goes yeah it is yeah um so cost wise be about the same eventually it'll be about the same as what we got now it looked like we had to buy new printers or something too or no it's it's just we have printers in the squad already they just want to make sure that they're the six and seven so there the sixes are in some of the old squads that are been replaced I don't think we're going to have a hardware issue okay so for and printers are like $400 not bad all right so in Ence for the shortterm time you know that there'll be a $3,000 reduction at least for the next three years what's the reason that they wanted to make the change I mean just the the record management change well yeah I mean is over the LG and yeah so it was 2007 when it came in so the the the kick the Catalyst of that was last year we got a letter from LG that says starting and they gave a year so the year was up in early this year January February somewhere there that starting in a year we will no longer we will give you a 30-day notice when we're no longer going to support that operating system yeah I remember talking about that now I think that you bring that up yeah and then once everybody started bailing now they said wait a minute no we will support it and then they go back and said they wouldn't support it so yeah that was the Catalyst that rings a bell now yeah okay uh it looks like if you paid the full amount for the annual rate it you Sav 4% or something like that is that something we would want to do that would be a mic decision yeah I always take advantage of that yep all right any other questions motion to approve second I have a motion from councilman heeman and a second from councilman hren all in favor say I I all oppose same sign that motion carries 4 Z anything on the consent to well actually before we get to that I should mention I I just wanted to say thank you to Public Works and I probably could have said that earlier in the meeting but uh for all the work that they did after that um after that storm we had so they I had a lot of comments on on the job that they did and how well they did it so so that's of work so I'll expand on that mayor if I could um also a shout out to PD for calling in public works the night of the storm we had um one of our Public Works uh guys in here at 8m and worked a very long overnight and next day into just making sure that the roads were maintained and cleared so thank you to PD for helping and assist us to let us know when we need to come in and also to some of our office staff um helping public works out and it was a great team effort but huge shout out to public works yeah well and yeah like you said the office staff too I mean we kept that the compost open I think every day uh after that that storm happened I don't think there was a day that we closed it and we took larger brush in which I know we've got a big pile of what a pile I was just there before this meeting man I don't but and I think we're going to extend I think we we extended taking the larger brush through the end of this week through Saturday through Saturday yep it's normal compost hours this week and it will be accepted through Saturday right lot there was a lot of people that were they had to wait for the insurance adjusters to to get there and to be actually come and so they couldn't clean up sooner so that's the why we we extended it too so I was there at 600 and 6:30 and there was at least five cars there each time so can we open that up for firewood people who might want to go in cut their own firewood or bring it'd be really hard to get to it the the brush pile is huge at I don't see anybody actually be able to get up there and pull stuff out personally not say yeah definitely that's a good idea though because otherwise we got to pay to get rid of it well when they when they start pulling some of that stuff out to get rid of it maybe just some the bigger stuff aside and see if uh the public may want it because I feel we'll be able to get rid of it uh currently what we're looking at doing is putting together um accepting quotes from people to come in and Chip it on site and then we'll have have um you know mulch available for people um we can even put some of that in the compost and that helps accelerate composting so that's currently what we're thinking of doing that pile is pretty compact as we've been pushing it up and kind of keeping it nice and small as possible so it is it is very compact so I know we've we earlier this year we looked at the costs of buying a wood shipper and getting rid of this I mean should we more seriously look at a wood shipper at this point I think that they're definitely I mean this is an anomaly I we don't have if we had this annually I would say that maybe that is something but we also have to look at the safety of the people the time um and the availability of Public Works to to do couldn't the seasonal do it because 95% of the time when I'm there you're just sitting there reading so you're I mean it's a good job for him and I know he's not paid a whole bunch but we'd have to look at the horsepower um so the Union contract governs was they can and cannot do depending on even on a seasonal yep okay yep they're especially on a seasonal unions oh my god well I mean it's for a good reason I guess to make sure that they're they're keeping that separated and usually the best way to keep things separated is to look at the horsepower of equipment um there are of course exceptions and we have some exceptions but that would be something we' need to ask if it was something we were looking at I mean I think looking at that pile out there you're going to be 50 Grand in the hole um if I were to get I mean that's a big pile where we were before was not anywhere that high but it all depends on how how big it gets by the end it has grown definitely in the last week and if you're going to have them trailer it down to revars or whatever in man time alone there's 50 Grand we're not looking at doing that we're looking at hiring someone to come chip it on site and leave it there which would be a a lot yeah I think the whole plan kind of changed when you because mean the original idea was okay we're not taking anything more than a pop can you know which we could use a smaller chipper and have our seasonal guy who's sitting there anyways chip this stuff as it comes in and then it's not a problem at the end of the year versus having to pay our salary 50 $60 an hour Union full-time guys to drive it down to the Rivard and get rid of it doesn't make any sense I think we should buy our own shipper whatever we can get the biggest we can get and have him do it we could put it on a counil talk about I mean I don't know if that so whatever we do it will end up coming back for Council so we can definitely have it on a discussion before we spend too much time and get Ed resources into getting quotes if you'd like to discuss it first we can add it to cow yeah let's do that yeah and then as far as George's point on the bigger logs could we just keep those off to the side and maybe make a post hey come by the time we get it all sorted I don't know because you're going to have to pay to get rid of it so why not just see if anybody actually wants it I think depending on what kind of company we get if they're using like a large chipper and they're just throwing everything no I mean I mean I mean for actual residents to get it no I I understand but if you're G to ask that person that contracted whoever you hire to set aside certain things I mean that's time for them that they going to have to put pick apart anybody that wants firewood at this point probably has plenty to right right I'm just trying got P at house I'm trying to avoid paying to chip the big stuff cuz they're going to charge more for the big stuff I mean if you have that in your pile now you're talking twice as much for you know so well for our October uh band music thing were we planning on having a bonfire we are planning to have some small bonfires based off the recommendation and um Rules by jenovich with the fire district Fire won't allow it yeah they there're small piles we are not having a large bonfire no we couldn't pull a special use permit just to uh burn that whole thing and just have the whole fire department there for it it's going to save us a lot more money wait for nice that'd be really nice I don't think that was the whole original idea was you know take brush and then have an October Fest sort of thing and burn it all right but that's what I thought it um but no that we we went a different direction because we didn't want a big party on the Public Works grounds and why don't we just the stuff why don't we just Burn It Anyways for that big of a pile and just have I mean pay fire to be there that's going to be a 20th of the cost of paying a wood shipper to get out there maybe maybe yeah I don't know I think we can have F future discussions to put in a quote so the process we'll probably follow will be to draft up um similar to like an RFP a document and request quotes to come in um based upon whatever I I H I do think that we'll probably ask people to come out look at the pile and give us a full not to exceed number instead of by the yard Because by the yard you don't know at the end of the day how much is coming out so we haven't completely decided on that yet but interested parties can send Matt sester and email yeah we haven't sent anything out things will get put on the website when we're looking for quotes and yeah uh I'll give a plug if you're not on Civic ready and haven't signed up for our non-emergency alerts you could sign up because those kind of notices get put out on that and you can get it via text and what's the phone number that you have to text the number to text no uh the number to text to sign up for all alerts there are you can pick and choose which alerts you'd like to sign up for but if you're looking to do all of them uh text ianti to 3827 okay how about the consent agenda or what do you no I was just going to say I think we're just G to have future discussions on this and I still haven't heard back from any uh companies that uh do like a leaf vac type set up to go to J Jimmy rigga plow truck up so still waiting on that I don't know what's going on with some of those companies but yeah so not this year for sure motion to approve the consent agenda thank you second I have a motion from councilman hren and a second from councilman Merill to approve the consent agenda all in favor say I I all oppose same sign that motion carries 4 motion to adjourn second I have a motion to adjourn from councilman Merill and a second from councilman hean all in favor uh say I I I'll oppose same sign that motion carries 4 Z we are adjourned that wasn't bad