##VIDEO ID:P-hgKZNUZ_w## maybe tomorrow night he'll be less busy I mean he'll be less busy tonight iume all right let's go ahead and call this meeting of the asan city council the order if we can all rise for the Pledge of Allegiance please doing roll call we have all council members present is there any public comment this evening all right we'll move on to adopting the agenda any modifications good evening mayor and councel there are no agenda modifications second I have a motion from councilman lundine and a second from councilman hren all in favor say I I all oppos same sign that motion carries 5 Z moving on to G1 the September 3rd 2024 city council meeting minutes motion to adopt second I have a motion from councilman lundine and a second from councilman Merill all in fav favor say I I all oppose same sign that motion carries 5 for announcements we've got our Park and Recreation board meeting coming up on Tuesday September 24th at 6 pm we've got our city council meeting on Tuesday October 1st at 7 p.m and an Eda meeting on Tuesday October 21st immediately following the city council meeting do we have any Council committee reports I have a fairly substantial one today uh so I spent all day today down in St Paul voting on state policy recommendations through LMC um there's some good news but unfortunately more bad news um many govern government subsidized housing bills were um passed which basically means our taxes are going to go up again for government subsidized housing um which I mean obviously it's good to have some of that but some of the policies that they push through were pretty silly um and I think it'll be a have a pretty poor effect on housing um they're kind of doing things that actually make the housing more difficult so one example was the uh the Tiff funding to um just basically if you have a tiff funded apartment you have to meet a certain quota so now they want to increase that so you have if you have a I don't know how exactly how to explain it that makes sense but basically what they're doing is they're pushing all these Tiff subsidized units into these apartments and in order to offset that the average cost of the other Apartments has to go up in the same building so if you are subsidizing a $500 apartment somebody has to pay the difference in that so the average has to average out so they're getting um these these units are getting overwhelmed with lower income and they're not able to fill the higher income spots because nobody wants to live in an apartment building that has lower income people in it so it's it's they're kind of shooting themselves in the foot and I I'm I'm pretty uh disappointed with that but not much you can really do other than voice your opinion on that um uh one thing that was was were you talking that the league was going to be advocating for that policy you're saying yes so they're advocating to have more of a uh I don't remember the word they use but it's the Tiff funding stuff and basically if you have a $500 unit in there the cost of that has to average out in the whole total apartment complex so if you have a $500 unit and the market price is $1,000 you have to have a $1,500 unit to off offset that cost well nobody's going to move in and pay $1,500 when there's people there moving they are paying $500 so it's kind of like a they're trying to fill these these um Apartments but then they're not filling them so it's you see it in White Bear Lake uh my girlfriend lives in one right now where they brought in Tiff funding um for these apartment comple these apartment units but the other units are all sitting empty because all these people are moving out because the the it's becoming less safe to live there and you see that you're actually having un they half fill half Fields you're losing um housing for these people and it's just not a it's not it hasn't been well done um I probably explain that really poorly um but that's something that I would like to fight for more next year down there uh there were some good things that were changed um if you remember a couple years back uh the state kind of took away some daycare options to have inhome dayc carees and HOAs um so that has been recommended to repeal those and that passed uh today unanimously I believe which was good um that means that more there will be more lo and control on daycares I just wanted to kind of clarify what you're talking about so everybody knows in the audience is just basically you attended Le League of Minnesota's cities meetings that are policy meetings where they're trying to come up with policy and and their platforms for what they're going to advocate for at the legislature so this is not anything that's being passed that the city has held to or we're obligated to participate in or anything like that you're just talking about as a a lobbyist that works for the city in these policy meetings is what you're talking about so it's nothing that affects the city on a on what decisions we're able to make but it's it's we're part of that group and we're trying to to advocate for things that we find valuable and and and Advocate against things that we disagree with at the league so um but this is not stuff that affects us in the city of Ian necessarily um yeah I didn't today or anything like that so didn't really explain that well I had meetings today from 9: and I had like 15 minutes to try and pep prep a committee report so it was a a little bit of a struggle today it was long um there is another greenhouse gas emissions tax uh that was unfortunately recommended for approval today on highways so that means that Highway projects are going to be charged um for per mile greenhouse gas tax which is going to increase the price of construction projects on highways which is obviously going to affect everybody um and I I was pretty opposed to that but I believe there's only two or three other people in the room that were um obviously the the going green sounds good uh but they have a lot of work to do on how they decide where those funds go um and then in the HR committee policy board I did fight for one thing that I thought uh was actually one good thing that came out of covid was that city council members and City staff could attend virtually um now we've had a couple instances here in the city where we had four people here to vote and we wish that fifth person was here you know to give their opinion on things um and I think the fact that uh you could vote virtually was a a big deal um so I fought for that today uh initially when we started discussing that the room seemed to be um against City Council Members having that option um but then after you know probably 10 or 15 minutes about talking about the positives of it um the votes in the room kind of changed um and then I had recommended proposing a I will say I think there there's stories out of a certain neighboring County I think where they've got a commissioner who spends an awful lot of time down in Florida and they are not present at meetings and and that's that that is an issue I think that so I don't know that's one thing that I had talked about so the the overarching um policy recommendation that we made today I voted against that actual aspect of it for that reason um I recommended a 25% maximum usage um but the the league uh the voting members didn't feel that was our place to say that percentage they thought that the state legislature should make the final call on that but I push for a smaller number because you know obviously stuff happens or if you have a vacation once a year and it happens to land on a council um date you should have the option to you know call in and be you know give input because that's what we're here for uh so there may be some revisions there that the state senators do um but I think that was a pretty good win and it really leaves the option open for smaller cities um there were actually a few of them in the room that had had issues with it in the past and that's kind of why it was brought to light and uh I think it's just good for all of us to be able to uh give our opinion even if we're not here necessarily in the room um school board and Chamber of Commerce meet this week so I'll have those and I think I'm going to uh look through my notes from the LMC today and maybe give a a better report because these are very unorganized yep correct and they want to raise that that was that was what was proposed today is Raising that and that that passed so correct yeah I just think it's relevant yep and that's right but at the end of the day it affects all of us because we all pay taxes on that sort of subsidized housing and they're I think they're making their problem worse than they are better so there was there was a couple people that were fighting for that but unfortunately it didn't pan out the way that some of us may have hoped it would have but it's good to have the conversations there's a lot of good conversation today and it's great to be down there and you know be able to hear these things and and come back to the city and get input from citizens on things like this and you know just fight for what your citizens want so I think it's a great it's a great thing to go down there and do that and I hope we continue it no matter who's on Council like I said none of that is applying to the city it's talking about League of Minnesota cities and what they're lobbying for so and there was no no Section 8 housing brought into town right so so Steve I'll clarify that for you um you said it you said it too but I really want to really want to hammer that home so okay any other Council committee reports I got one uh my Community Education uh meeting started up again through the school um and they had one of the highlights was over the summer they have three sports that really spiked in interest and they were pickle ball basketball and volleyball so you're talking about pickle ball and adding courts well that's one of the big increases over the summer through the school district um and then they got their audited their audit back from last year and they came in $ 37,1 15466 under budget so that's good that's about it though thank you Je any other Council committee reports all right so we'll go ahead and move on to our first item of business which is k1 ordinance to consider amending zoning code to add open sales lot for custom trailers as permitted use as a permitted use in the i1 industrial district good evening mayor and Council um this is a request by Tab and Slot originally which was um at the previous Planning Commission meeting um which they originally requested for permitted use but um after discussions with the Planning Commission is recommended that it'll move forward as a conditional use which they were fine with and have already submitted their application in eagerness of this passing um so the open sales lot um is allowed within as a conditional use currently for other things in the B1 and B2 and now bit business districts um but is not allowed in the i1 and industrial districts um for good reasons so specifically making this an open sales lot for custombuilt trailers um is intentional um for some of our most highly valued land protected with the highest um I guess infrastructure that we have within our city the largest infrastructure so that those lots can be used at their highest and best use um open sales lots are regulated by section 13 of use regulations and so they have stand standards that they must follow including um concrete or pinous U parking areas as well as curbing um and must follow all the things that are required within our regular parking lots throughout the city um as well as require solid screening um to a minimum height of six feet along any portion that is open a budding residential property or districts um the Planning Commission did recommend approval of this moving forward as a conditional use in this district and they were okay with all the requirements that yes to to do that okay second I have a motion to approve from councilman lundine and a second from councilman hren all in favor say I I all oppose same sign that motion carries five to zero moving on to K2 the resolution to consider approval of the final PUD for Fairway greens North Third Edition good evening again um looking back at January 2021 um the council approved a preliminary plat and PUD for the Fairway greens North development with a variety of conditions and we have a new developer now the applicant JP JPB land LLC was applied for the final plat for the third um edition of this development which will consist of 44 Lots out of 174 Lots total in the Pud um the development agreement is also included um in the next item for approval um and the Planning Commission um did get to I did bring it forward to the Planning Commission earlier this evening just to get any updated comments um since this already was approved um so it didn't have to formally go in front of them but just to make them aware since the time frame um continues as we go through each phrase phase has been you know longer than what we normally see the developer is here to respond to any questions you may have thank you second I have a motion to approve from councilman lundine and a second from councilman hren all in favor say I I I all all oppose same sign that motion carries 5 Z moving on to K3 the resolution to consider approving the development agreement for Fairway greens North Third Edition again this is the development agreement that follows the final plat that was just approved um the following conditions are being considered a letter of credit and the amount approved by the city engineer um and in a form approved by the City attorney is submitted to the city the final plat must be approved by city council which did happen um and prior to signing of the development agreement any outstanding ESR fees or financial guarantees as stated within the development agreement shall be established or paid um otherwise we're all in good standing and we have the development agreement has been agreed upon and signed by our developer and is ready um for your approval thank you second I have a motion to approve from councilman lundine and a second from councilman Merill all in favor say I I all oppose same sign that motion carries 5- Z moving on to K4 the resolution to consider chlorine regeneration system replacement good evening mayor and Council so the water treatment plant was built in 2008 and designed to create its own bleach on site the bleaches are like a low percent 7.8% um it was replaced in 2017 and now it's up and needs to get replaced again now it uh it's kind of unique um that we create our own bleach on site not a lot of cities do that but we're a few cities in Minnesota and it's more popular in Iowa to do that um it's safer I think it's got a better quality than our backup which is azone um we flush twice this year we normally we flush once a year that's in the spring last summer we got when we were doing the water tower we got complaints last fall with the water cuz we were on the backup system and being the Mayo failed now we're on the backup system again now proba we flushed again this fall so we researched um who we can get the chlorine generation system from and vesco is the only place that's local that can service or and regeneration system um it would be for us to install we'd have our contract to plumber contract electrician and Total Control would entered in the skada um I put a small comparison together on the difference between the two units I think the big one's the top one where it's going to cost $500,000 in chemical to stay on the backup such was as the azone for the next 20 years and ironically enough we went on the azone or uh the microcore system it'd be the same thing in 20 years cuz it should last 20 years so so I have a question here if you look at the memorandum uh it is 97 2024 if you look at the options page and then it says replace myo onsite generation system with another myo onsite for 268 and then it says replace uh myo on site with microor for 64,000 is that are those two just we did research on that that chorch that is in Texas and very their customer service is terrible so we were waiting on quotes waiting on quotes and then actually that that quote that you have there is a different quote because we made really sure that's a really big number made really sure we were getting what we need and it's actually a little bit bigger unit than what was there so the mc100 is what we're looking for and just to clarify um the Mayo machine is a brand the myox company or the company that made the myox brand was bought out by chorch so that's why it was looking at it's still chlorine regeneration system but myo is not a thing anymore they dissolved so Chlor Tech was a company that dinora had replace the myox unit with um different techn similar technology but different name I I understand I understand that explanation but the prices here are wrong if that's the case um if you look at options uh bullet point number two and read the first sentence of that and then the first sentence of the next bullet point I'm not I'm not really sure those prices don't line up with what we have here and it's off by 200,000 something which page you looking at uh if you look at the memorandum that's labeled 91724 chlorination for water system um it says background history of water treat so that's the memo that is just for the research or for the background of the chlorination system the water system M those numbers are old those are before the new numbers were collected for the discussion today I know the memo has today's date on it but that is not the new information they went up over $200,000 since this was looked into a few days ago no it's not a few days ago that this was drafted months ago oh well still went up 200 Grand correct we're not touching that system then what happens if it's a million dollars next time when it well that's why we kind of ruled them out because they're customer service trying to get you know getting research on the one that we have to see is it you know what's wrong with it and it's basically on the other one that was replaced got replaced at 78 years same as this one right now we're in the same token down the road it didn't last as long as it should have why we kind of ruled them out and said okay let's find somebody else VES is a lot closer we get other stuff from vesal currently and their customer service is really good we get stuff probably having that memo in there is not correct because those numbers are it does depend on the type of unit the size of unit and that one and that second bullet um is for a larger unit and the one in the third bullet is for a very small unit and staff once this was drafted staff had determined that even though that that company had recommended that we go with this because of our flow and our dosage and feed rate it was not correct we had engineering with bolt and mink review everything that we have for chemical going through for the amount of water and to last because we don't want it to become obsolete in the next seven years we want to make sure it lasts the the the lifespan of the unit itself so unfortunately in that memo there is no tie to what unit that is but that is what's going on correct Matt correct so is that option the very first option the first bullet point on that repair of the current May myo on-site generation system for 8,791 and then uh diodes for $2,838 and we expect that to potentially last another 10 to 12 years is that accurate then well we're not sure if it's just diodes okay it could be something else wrong with it too that's kind of what happened to it last time was like we flew a guy out he was able to make it go another I don't know 68 months till we got our unit got a new one and my fear is that's going to happen again and he comes up he fixes it manipulates it whatever it's working what he's gone but it didn't last but I mean that's kind of a history of background of what happened what has gone on up there and it's it's somewhat misleading when you look at the dials and replacing F the guy up here because we don't know what else is wrong with it if anything else is wrong with it and I feel like we're just throwing money in the wind and it's smarter just to get a different unit they say is going to last 20 years well but at a price tag of you so you said something there I wasn't following you said $500,000 to just continue to use chemical like we are doing now where we purchase the chemical and add it and that kind of thing versus generating our own correct you said it would be the same though over the course of the 20 years correct but the the price that we're seeing here so this 26 well that doesn't that's that's a guess on what the install Okay so the chemical there was like 220,000 230 some th000 for the unit and then the rest is just what is it going to take to put it in there that's that's the difference so you're get but you're you're estimating that over the course of 20 years we're going to spend the same whether we just do the chemical or we buy the machine and and that's but the last machine only lasted seven years right until so the one that we have now we're now repairing it wanting to replace it after what did you say 2018 it was replaced 2017 2017 so that makes me a little nervous that we're going to spend that money and then after we're get a completely different unit cuz that customer service with well it's dor the it's just terrible they just they're very hard to get a hold of you get a hold of the right person I mean I called a few different times send emails and the email I got back was for like two weeks that you know I'm on vacation and then you know just it was difficult and that's the people that we have now that's the current people we have now right yep we're definitely not going to buy anything from them in the future but you know I mean for that price take it's tempting to almost try it because well yeah I mean there's it's just to to try and see if we can fix it and get another 10 12 years out of it if it's supposed to last 20 and it's only lasted seven well we should be able to get more time out of it with the with the chor tech it was more like 10 should last 10 okay y well so it's still where this where vesco is saying that this microcore is going to last should last you 20 years with your room to maintenance but you're going to spend an awful lot of money on it and we're already I mean water water rates are already an issue because of you know the growth that we've seen and stuff over the last five years and the amount of water that people are using that you know we we're looking to add another well and all that kind of stuff besides so I mean if you look at it this way even if say we spend $115,000 to repair the uh myo that's on site right now you know if you amortise that $500,000 it's going to cost you to have this microcore for 20 years that's 25,000 a year so even if you get less than a year of working capacity out of that Max which hopefully you get more you're still saving money on that first year so and it's a lot less investment I see I was all for this with the 64,000 I guess I was hopeful but this is wrong and I I just it's hard to to put trust in a company for 20 years on something that when it starts to go bad that company is just going to disappear just like this mayak stuff there's barely anybody to service it so so you have a a pretty big investment and you hope it lasts 20 years and if it doesn't you're upside down heavy so I don't know I would I would rather see us try and fix that machine and I hate to say it because I know you don't like the machine because it's a been problems but for that kind of price T that's a pretty big substantial hit well I think the other part of it though too is if you can use if you can use the chemical which I mean like you said you have to back you know back flush and stuff more often like twice a year instead of once a year right but but it's more dangerous for them to if if we yeah if we're going to you know okay I understand what you're saying yeah Matt what was the updated quote that you got for repair of the myo that was the quote we got way back when that was for that 8,000 plus the diots that was when we originally had the the issues which was seven eight mons something like that correct they didn't get back to us with an update quote you had asked so correct correct and that was from June June yeah June I know but do you do you want to spend 250,000 and or well 500,000 over the 20 years without spend more somebody or the other argument too is it do you do you I mean if you just continue to use the chemical you can split that cost out over the 20 years instead of having everybody today pay for it you know what I mean that's if excuse me if we decide to go in the a Zone it's meant to be a backup not a permanent system so if we're going to go with the aone as a permanent system we had to put a bigger day tank in there and we have a big tank we pump it out of this day tank that's take a couple couple days a week to do that or a couple hours every week to do it every couple days it's got to get done and we got to put a there's some wiring we got put a transfer pump in there to fill this tank up it's uh you know I think I guess made that at 35 or 39,000 if we have to do that so if you wanted to Swit to permanently going with the chemical option the backup is meant to be a backup with this with this running the azone the way we are now we if we're going to do that long term we need to have some extra pumps here we need to have some stuff on hand to do that okay because when the when the myo supposed say would go down we had this a Zone as a back up and we're realizing running it long term our quality water is not as good as if we had the clearing regeneration system and I I would agree with that I've gotten significantly more messages in the last couple months about the water than usual and it's probably because the aone not because they're not managing it properly I think they're doing a good job but it's just not as consistent because of the high dosing and if it's not perfectly mixed you're looking at a 12 a half% uh concentration versus 7 or point8 you can you can hide that 7.8 a lot easier than 12.5 minut we we are running on the backup now long term I mean for we have been for the summer and that's we're realizing we have some other issues going on so we're taking samples out in the system try to dial that thing in but we've never ran on it this long so there are some adjustments being made but you can't like make a big adjustment it's just tiny little tiny little adjustments at a time because it doesn't this is just a drip that where you know the azone is getting pumped in the system it's not like a it's not like running in there it's very small doses M there's there are no other competitors that make anything like this other than the two or three that are listed here man I I researched and researched and researched and like you said most K most cities are going with the the Aon right um a lot of cities do y but they have a different everybody's got a different makeup of water you know maybe the Zone works better for them you know yeah well what do you guys think I think on this one I would rather see them try and fix it and it gives us more time to budget or figure something out I I don't know I just don't see those bids is happening at the moment in my eyes I'm with fixing it it's worth a try anyway yeah I mean if we can get 12 Years that' be great even if we get two or three more system well like you said Luke I mean if even if you get six months out of it you're Break Even yeah I guess I'd rather try and see if we can get it fixed but yeah I see it as a long we've had issues with the water like Luke has said I think it we should put the money as an investment of long term if we're having problems already and I don't like the high cost of it either but this is a basic function of government you got to supply good water so I'm okay with spending the amount I'm assuming we got in funds already there like going have to raise the water rates then more do do we have money to take any of these options yes um but the option that you choose it's uh if it costs more um yeah future water rates go up a little bit more I mean there's a direct correlation yeah I guess I I mean I'm not saying we wouldn't necessarily make the decision in the future to buy something but I'm just saying I'd rather try to fix this for that price I'd rather try to fix it first and see what happens and if we end up you know having issues or you know something like that then we can always make the decision to buy it in the future but for you know for less than less than 12 Grand I mean I think it makes sense to to at least try to fix it you know what I mean and then maybe maybe we could put it in the CIP for a year or two hopefully and then at least we have well it's it's currently in the CIP for next year okay to get replaced was that at the the this $500,000 well it's the machine itself is 230 Y and then it's install after that the 500 is with um over 20 years adding chemicals purchasing the salt to make the to make the chlorine and the amount and the amount right correct yeah and the the amount that I have would you have an estimate on install price I mean are we talking 20 grand 200,000 that's I I was told it could be upwards of 50,000 that's why it ended up being at the 500 there I have no idea I can't imagine it's going to cost 50,000 I think that was a just a number threw out at me I don't know I I mean it's it's Plumbing it's electrical and it's you know it's okay you were gonna say something Mike yeah what is in the plan for next year is not this amount it is not what's currently in the plan is not sufficient to cover this option because that was indexed based on the last replacement cost and prices increases price increases have exceeded my inflation numbers so um that would need to be revised if we're going to go that route for for 2025 how far off is your your estimate on that and I mean rough math 100,000 I I had 100 and change I needed a 200 and change uh and that's coming out of general fund it's coming out of water all these costs would be the water fund explicitly yep yeah I mean either way if we if we can still get more life out of it even if it's due to be replaced I mean I'd rather I'd rather push it back I mean if it's if we can get by for another I mean like you said I mean if you got 12 10 12 years if you make those changes and you can can make it work for that time I'd rather I'd rather continue to do that and you said the lead time on this micro Clore was 33 to 38 weeks roughly roughly so that's long that's a long time either way well do you need a motion from us I guess to to take action on that if that's the route we want to take or or just want dire if we're going to be on this for the next six months can we get the a bigger tank up at the water plant and maybe go that route if we're going to be on this for quite a while yet well because it I'm guessing be if we if we did go with the microc it' be next I can't imagine it being anytime but next fall so if we're going to go with the azone theoretically we're going to be permanently on the azone for quite a while right now and just to clarify that we don't have a backup because we're using the backup so the great thing about having the azone there with the myio machine is that we have redundancy so we would never be where we'd have can't treat the water and we have to treat the water so that is the one of the you know we never like to cross our fingers kind of area um so we don't have a way to have a redundant system without having more supplies on hand another day tank maybe even another pump thing so if something breaks we need to fix it we got something else we can plug into so to say well I guess that's the question we didn't ask right is how long is it going to take to get them out there to fix it yeah well it's 34 to 38 weeks whatever it was and then to line up the contractor and it's got to be that time of year we can well that was to install a new one right so I mean but I oh to install the backup no having them to come out to do the repair my my concern with that is we discussed this weeks ago and had them asked them to give us an updated quote and we have not I think you've sent the email at least twice they have not even responded I think sometimes you got to call them and Rouse them talk to management well it's I've called okay I'm just making sure and when they come out we have to clarify that because they includes all travel airfare the lodging all that stuff we pay that in addition to the repair okay can we uh can we send the machine maybe it's a stupid question but I mean can we send the machine down to them well what's a big unit yeah it's it's probably oh 5 ft tall 3 ft crossed probably 4 feet long it's a it's a big heavy unit well yeah but I mean I mean it's it's it's it's not it it's not uh how do I say it mean it's all plumbed in and it's all in place yeah it would not make sense right to send it to them and it needs to be calibrated and things like that I'm not sure if if we were to repair it down there if we moved it up here who's to say that well you guys I said maybe it was a stupid question you could have just you could have just said yeah you're right it is a stupid question Jimmy I got it I got it okay so yeah I mean but that other tank you were talking about that would be the 39 yeah yeah but I mean are you saying that you think maybe we ought to have something like that anyway Josie when you're talking about redund I like redundancy what she's saying is what if what if we run on azone and then all a sudden we can't get Azon for a month and we run out well not necessarily that um I mean that the only time that that has been an issue was during 2020 time frame and we were told that we they potentially couldn't get a delivery and then I said you will make a delivery so that did happen um we did have somebody had to be here at like 9 o' for the trck it sounds like just about every city in Minnesota uses the azone so it's not like in that time frame I we Bo had one instance I can think of that it was like o we need it you need to come here um otherwise we haven't had an issue but my concern is I like to have another set of the tanks the day another day tank another pump so if ours breakes not that we can't get chemical but if like the pump breaks we have another one sitting on the shelf put that in well when's the next meeting October 1st I'm not opposed to doing that but I just my recommendation if I could mayor is to maybe table this discussion until the next city council meeting really hit hard to get an exact hard number from the repair people and how long how long it's going to take to get out here exactly how much it's going to cost if there's one or more dial that need to be replace and really dial in that cost and then get hard numbers on having a redundant system as an intrum and bring that back okay what happens if you don't hear back from them well then I think we got to consider our options yeah we've been hit hard with this stuff in the last two years the water stuff especially it's well especially cuz the the use I mean over the last 5 years I what what was the percentage of increase just cuz all the new houses have sprinkler systems I mean it's un yeah the the per capita use went up about 40 45% over a 5e period yeah per capita that's not just that's not just overall that's per person if you spread it out it's that much yeah so yeah so that's why the odd even water restrictions that's why there people keep asking about but that's and that's why there's a need for a second you know we a third or fourth well I mean so as long as we're on the water how's that list going there Mike on the uh on the commercial businesses y it's actually going pretty darn well the vast majority of people that the utility manager has gone to visit um and I when I say vast major I'm talking like 98% of them are thrilled that he went out there didn't tell him they had to do anything but just said hey this would save you a bunch of money if you did this uh the vast majority are super receptive and the only ones we haven't haven't been receptive have been the ones that council member Merl guessed right out of the shoot is the corporate ones that don't actually have anyone in town that is you know they don't care kind of is the impression yeah but the vast majority uh have been really thrilled and have asked Jim to come out again hey can you Pro can you show me the chart that shows that I've you know I've dropped my water you they're really thrilled about it and they've been doing it and sticking to it it's been good that's awesome great well thank you Matt for getting all that put together for us and stuff but yeah so I think that makes sense is let's see how quickly they could come and do the repair but I'm not opposed to to add in the the equipment that you need to to have the backup and do it the right way especially if it's going to be a while get some hard numbers put together okay yeah sounds great thank you guys um mayor if we could get a motion to postpone it to the second I have have a motion from councilman Lina and a second from councilman Merill all in favor say I I I all oppose same sign that motion carries 40 all right moving on to K5 resolution to consider accepting a grant for Bluebird Park actually do we need to wait for George to take a vote on that okay sorry oh no I know I'm just saying that if he's required he might be required to vote on it was why my worry but no okay now are you sure on that because we've had discussion before where just a a point of order discussion here so we've had talks before where somebody wants to abstain from a vote and they're forced to make a vote but if they went to the bathroom they wouldn't have to make that vote that's a good point you know what I'm saying there he is let's just do the vote we will no longer let people go to the restroom well at least not when we take a vote you can ask him George uh we had a a motion to table that until we had more information are you uh yes yes okay so make that a 50 vote um all right K5 resolution to consider accepting a grant for Bluebird Park okay after a lot of discussions this year about Park dedication funds the committee of the whole directed The Park Board to go through and figure out what projects were needed and one of them was Bluebird Park um and so this is what they came up with and we moveed forward with um so Bluebird Park is was slated for the splash park project that didn't move forward and so we tried to keep that budget consistent with that which was 400,000 which is what the city was going to put forward um all of these are recommended through Park dedication funds which we do have currently 639 th000 um in park dedication funds through August but we do have approximately 130,000 coming in additionally in the next 15 days so just keeping that in mind so for a total of 768 th000 I have a quick question if that's okay so is this proposed to demolish what's there and put this in its place this is going to improve the park and will give us a whole new play set oh so the old one is staying the old one is not staying this will improve that play area now I did ask in the park meeting I did ask if we could move that play equipment to another location which I was up at a event in Harris recently and they had done that where they bought Park equipment from Brook Park or not Brook Park uh Brooklyn Park I think and had moved equipment up to Harris and reinstalled it and had volunteers do it and they made it work so that's just a thought but I know the staff sounded like they were maybe not in because of the age of this place structure is about 25 years old so it's already past its useful life um and the pieces to the equipment are getting more expensive as we' learned this year as we replace some of the pieces um that it's if we can salvage some of the parts we definitely will but we'll just see how that process goes through a demolition um the pieces that we can salvage we know for sure are the new slide the new tube which match two other playsets that we have within the city so they're replaced they can easily fix those pieces and we won't have to buy new expensive pieces that are not no longer in stock and those playgrounds are roughly the same age as this playet wouldn't it make more sense just to put this on a different piece and leave that one there until it's really done with its useful life um I think this park as and I do have do know we have a Park Board member here also who would like to speak if possible you want her opinion um but I do think since this is the community park that everybody goes to this is not the park to just leave to basically turn into decrepit if we're gonna um it's better for us to keep this park vibrant we have so many people who would go to it every year we see it every day you go to this park no matter what time of year somebody's using this place and it's still being used that's my point it's still being used now so if you add another one it's not costing you any money to keep it so why demolish something that would still be used I can tell you that if we do choose to put this in another place place it will substantially increase the cost of a new location because the grading and all of that work is done everything's in place the lighting is done all of that stuff is already done we're basically you know we're improving this but we're adding new surfacing to make it more inclusive and this park would be all-inclusive and one of the only ones in the state of Min Greater Minnesota that allows a child in a wheelchair or a grandparent to go all the way with a walker all the way up to the third level and so um I think it's it's a great option to actually improve this park and gives our community something that they wanted for those who were looking forward to the splash park and it's reaching a broader audience is that one of the parks we recently did some uh work on we repl wasted moneyed well those pieces are able to be used in two other of our park locations that are just as old so both Rum River Meadows and I S I can't remember uh rum Riv sorry Riverside Park and Rum River Meadows have the exact same equ equipment so the slide will work that we just purchased as well as the tube will work on those to replace those when and if they become you know not able to use which feading is happening and that is I mean it's G to it'll it's just a matter of time before those have to be replaced as well what was the park board vote on this um well remember you guys what we're talking about now is just accepting the grant so we're not decid because am I right about that I mean it would be nice to move forward with the entire project if we're going to well and see that's the thing is I'd rather see a priority list from the park board instead of just one and we do have basically that and that's why there's so many things brought forward tonight and so this was the number one priority decided upon by consensus of the park board and so this was their priority item that they wanted to see move forward um if we do have a Bo member here to speak if you'd like her to come on up just if you could state your name and address for the record please Shaka Lee addresses 416 Bluebird Drive Northwest ianti Minnesota um I do think that this is a worthwhile um investment and enhancement to our city um as someone that is very heavily involved with the community um meeting with other moms and other members and spending a lot of time at this park um there are some things that need some adjusting and I know that we' have taken the time to fix what we could but overall the CIP is getting ready to be um it's due uh to be changed and I think another point that she brought up that's super important to me um and why I joined the council and I'm sorry the board is because I do have a son that is not able to walk um to some of the place spaces well really any of them um and his um wheelchair at the moment has a hard time getting through um all of it really um it would be really great to see the city do something like an inclusive park for all of the things that she mentioned because this park is the Heart of the City everybody comes to Bluebird Park um for events um we do a lot of things there for the community it really is the heart um of bluebird as far as Parks go so I do think that we should make a good investment in making this park look and look great and have a proud Park um there because it's so heavily used um again to go back to an inclusive playground I think especially the community members that visit courage um Kenny this would be amazing um because again we are directly supporting kids and people that can get to the park and make it accessible um I love the idea of having a wheelchair that can go to the slide that is huge for someone that can't get to the slide with her son it's a lot for me to bring him up and um he particularly has devices in his throat he has a device on his stomach so it can be a hazard to take him out of his wheelchair to bring him up to the slide for things catching and you know becoming a a risk so to be able to move him in his physical wheelchair change is the game it really does so um I think this is a worthwhile project like I said I've spoken to a lot of the community members about it because we couldn't do the splash pad I think that this would be like a hey I know we couldn't get that done we really all wanted that but at least we can give you an updated all-inclusive Park thank you thanks your G so let's let Stephanie kind of give us the rest of the of the story here on the the Grant and that kind of thing too and then we can kind of discuss this more but so um through a few options this was the option that was chosen by the and I'll go back to the picture by the park board um to move forward with um the inclusive Park Model and to save money that's why you see the surfacing not of the entire park because it is a very expensive feature but it does allow the swings and the major um structure to be be accessible 100% um staff also did get the number to see the five or the two to five year old area also um to be accessible which we think if we're moving forward would be the the best choice um but it's up to you guys to make that decision on how you want to move forward with that um the Grant application was to receive up to 50% of the predesigned structure cost and so that includes um the larger items you see so we had to pick from list of things that we could potentially get 50% of the costs covered when you say Grant it's from the company it's not a government grant it's the company giving you the Grant and we did get the we did get the budget before we applied for the grant so it it is not a hiked up cost that they do and then give you a grant like we already had the numbers prior to applying um so they the predesign structure are Dallas dazzler and chalice and the grant amount awarded is $109,500 um now on the younger playground equipment they don't do as many platforms for more accessibility as well as visibility for parents to see where the kids are playing and more climbing options a few of the add-on features which we didn't replace in the past were a climbing structure which wasn't included um as well as more shade which we've talked about in the past so these are not included in the overall budget I would have to say if you can go back on that that that that uh Christmas tree one that one's actually kind of dangerous it's on the ground it's on the ground yeah yeah is that the one that spins too oh man those are that's that one's wild one of my kids favorite things to play on and they're older so I feel like they're great cuz they get kids playing so when they're older ages um this also includes if you can see um an accessible um like spinning forget what it's called now marry go around um that is flush with the ground and that's in you can see um to the right of the large structure um and it maintains our current swings and confirms that location so we won't be replacing those and then adds the addition of a longer zip line which we currently don't have one we just have one that you can hang across with this one is a seated zip line this park does a good job of giving somebody something for everybody of all ages includes shade as well you can see the three shade areas um they the squares with the effect them so the total cost of all the equipment just the equipment itself is $ 32,8 Freight of 8,33 an installation demo and surfacing of $188,200 a grant of $1 109,8 for a total cost to the city of $400,000 which was what the city was intending on spending on the spash part project um initially which is where the budget came from um just in comparison um we'd also like you to just consider the following additions of adding a state shade over the 2 to five area which we've talked about because it helps preserve and there's not a lot of shade within the park which would be a 12 by4 shade over the structures which is an addition of 30,000 is that made out of plastic um it Sals like so it's metal and then the sales and the sales are um you can take them down in winter so that's do you know how long the expected life of those is because that's going to be a recurring cost it they have a pretty EXT I don't know exactly the life but we have one in the community garden Matt's not here but that one's holding up really well and it's been there for I don't know do you know how long that's been there s five and the colors that you choose like we choose one that's specifically they're light green so they're not fading um you don't choose dark blue for instance or red because those fade a lot sooner um but I can find out the useful of those there's other options too for smaller sale ones that we could get where you'd have more and so those I think you can get the sales um for different been a large sh and does our insurance cover all this equipment if some if there were to be a tornado that came through or hail that ripped the the shade covers is that something our insurance would cover or is that something we would have to come up with on the spot no we'd be it just it's just like with the when we built the liquor store right you're automatically considered to be covered and bonded or um what is the phrase that's not the quite the right word but you're automatically covered during construction and then it's automatically added as well so we'd get an updated we'd get an updated price in the subsequent year but they're just default extending the coverage yep and we've had this shade so far at the community garden for seven years so and it looks brand new on the Vista Tree Top which is the tree on that we had spoken about before um which would be in that area where the previous climber was um is $27,000 and these include installation these aren't just the price of the cost and then um poured in place um surfacing under the 2 to5 area would approximately cost $40,000 an additional cost for that area just the two to five this this other price is with yes the full price is the other is the picture that you see so that that's the 400,000 that the city would be in these are additions that we could make and just would suggest if we're going to go through with a project um that could be the time to think about them as well since we didn't replace that climber um as well as just doing the port in place now for the 2 to five area if you know two to five year olds they they do not like being dirty and they don't love to have wood chips on them so all for that one so I I noticed that it said October 25th for order deadline yeah is does the grant expire at that point or could we put this off a year and then do it next year instead nope the grant expires at that time so they just do it they have a grant every year in August some years they don't do it some years they do extra money um and they pick certain sections of their book that you can apply for the grant for yes we we currently have as of August 639 th000 but in the next with Fairway greens North Plat that was just approved coming in on Friday um which will be another 79 ,000 um as well as whiskey Apartments too which they're just going to be starting construction on um that's another 50,000 that will be coming in so if if this were to go through there would be no possibility of getting a splash bed in the next handful of years because the money wouldn't be there it just deps on the development depends oh we don't have that Grant anymore me right that's this is any clue on big chunk any clue on how much uh pump track came out to be I know it's our next item but trying to De I think it's going to be a while before we get one this pump track I don't think that's happening it's the pump track itself is 300,000 yeah 300 yes itself and the skate park project is 400,000 crazy numb just to improve I yeah that seems like a good business to be in I guess so that's kind of my concern I guess is it's like that is a large chunk of that money that we have and I just and what's there really want to be careful about making a decision and what's there is still usable we repaired you know we replaced the tube I think and we patched the slides or do we order new slides that that part we ordered one new slide one new slide and we patch the other one and repl and we we patch the patch the tube we patch we replaced one of the tube sections and replaced one of the slides and then repaired patched a slide patched two slides and another section of something else yeah I mean I'm not saying I don't want to do this I'm just saying I just I say we do B decision is what I'm saying table it until we discuss the other items if that's what you would like to do before we have to make a decision I I don't think that other item is I me you can get we might as well go to that but well I think I think you replace the big structures and take advantage of the Grant and then you can piece in all the added added amenities at other points but at least you're replacing the big structures which is the main cost and there are problems with that current play set and it is the most used Park and then that would leave money for was it theway greens nor which I want to money in there to build that because you know try to add Parks or repair Parks as many of them as possible with this park dedication funds that's my my thought what do you want to make that motion all second it well is is I had a question to just replace the big the two big structures is that going to come to 193,000 on the city Side um and is it 400,000 to include all the added structures that you 4 that includes all the items like the zip line as well as leave and the port and place surfacing so it's only the addition of the zip line as well as the three Sage shade structures around um the outside perimeter for p taes that'd be the $400,000 Cal I did have one question on it the port in place servicing for that entire area we had I know in the and I I think we kind of discussed it at the park board meeting but uh if we were to just do the port in place as a walkway sort of to an area where it's around the swings and then wood chips this is the safest safest way that they can do that so this is that option of doing the walkways because um it's just the portion and that's why there's such a large large section still of wood chips um because they needed to be so there's no fall zones where kids would fall onto the edge of the p in place so they have specific safety requirements that we have to follow for that day so what was the price if you took the port in place out which I mean obviously the port in place is kind of what you need makes it accessible right so I mean you can't if if you're trying to go for accessibility then you're P but I mean what was that if it was just wood chips it's sorry just trying to think it's around $120,000 for the port how do they get so much money for this stuff there's that list is was that almost 500 yeah how does that compare If instead of the port in place we just go concrete which I mean I guess you don't want that in a playground there's be there's another stupid question for you but this is much higher because of the height of the structure and a fall distance yeah I can't wrap my head around that price tag right now I think it's only going to go up it goes up every year so this is actually there are equipment things that we looked at that are 600,000 just for the equipment like the park in sheview they just built was 3.5 million I think to build something along that have bigger tax base I guess the other thing that you know I don't see on this list for tonight for discussion was the the Veterans Memorial on which we are just waiting for um the VFW to get back to us with their comments so we have reached out to them again the park board does want to see that move forward and felt like their recommendations with this park as well as just um repairing the equipment which doesn't come out of park dedication because it's a repair of the equipment of the skate park equipment as well as moving so this park Fairway greens North and then they thought they could still um make a substantial starting contribution to the start of the BFW so I guess I haven't done the math on that but so what what did you have left if you were to do all the things that are recommended here what would you have left over still with the recommendations as well um or just with the that's we have 368 if we do the 400,000 and then sorry yeah well I mean that's so three 270 assuming we don't do the pump track at yes yeah we assuming we don't do any of the skate park but I mean the so that's taking all that out you're saying no if we did the 400,000 plus Fairway greens North which we're assuming will cost high ball per because we haven't done enough estimating on that one yet um we just want direction to move forward with that um I would guess all in around 100,000 but we can set that budget at what we want it to be so that would be 500,000 and plus then we'd have the remaining amount left over for other par amenities so that's what they want to move for forward with right now this Fairway greens North and this park are their two priorities to give you a just a quick cost breakdown on this if say if it were 59,000 and our useful life is expected to be 20 years that's costing the city $70 a day to have this that's what it comes to in math numbers well remember you're you're actually at 400 for the cost but yeah but you're going to have replacement in that 20 years of stuff too so I guess if you do $55 a day for the next 20 years yeah I mean I I mean you got to spend the money on something I mean that's what it's there for or you can save it and you could you know use put it toward a community centers I mean you don't necessarily have to spend it right you know mean you could save it for something larger too but I like the idea I just wish the prices seem more reasonable it just doesn't seem reasonable but I don't know what you do about that you just don't buy oh um but anyway any other discussion otherwise I had a motion in a second so and I guess one thing we didn't talk about either was is this playground equipment what we want you know I mean did you guys did you look at you know I mean is it entertaining enough is it fun enough for you know for the the kids that we're hoping to provide a service for right you guys were all comfortable with that what the barkboard discuss I think that was yeah I mean I think the initial initial thought when we looked at it and cre you could help me remember if I'm but I think when we first looked at it we thought well it doesn't really have enough features but then we the more we looked at it the more we thought it probably was was okay but that was something that we had talked about for strong of a warranty is it again does it have any warranty or and are any of these parts it is game time and so you can speak on I think usually when we plan for the C it's 20 to 30 years at I mean 20 is on the maybe was some intentional damage being done but usually the the lifespan is upwards of 30 depending on the UN the exact you know like I I think that when we had um some apps before that had been damaged maybe it didn't but again there was some intentional damage being done but and the shade structures I think will add to the life of the equipment too I mean right I mean that's the definitely kind of the idea behind having them but and are you saying there won't be any shade over the equipment if we don't add that that other one was just added shade in it would add to the smaller so it's for the the two to five year old is where it would be okay um so it shade that area so the main equipment is shaded with that 400,000 price the main equipment itself isn't shaded but that equipment because it's all metal because of the way it's constructed doesn't require Shades according to our sales we he said they don't shade they don't recommend the shades for that but they do recommend it over the plastic pie so just and the ropes and stuff that are on the smaller equipment okay good 30,000 for that large it's a large it's 40 by 12 so and that is the install as well so theing yeah I mean and I think I think is I we just wanted to give you all of the additions we thought were maybe missing also this as well since we're looking at it as a whole right and we can definitely like you said look at at adding those in the future so um okay and your motion was to go the 400 Y at this time and then look at that in the future and what other uh well now I don't know if we need to necessarily add this to a motion but I mean if we talked about trying to use this equipment elsewhere is that something that we need to motion for or you'll just do that anyway right um staff will definitely pay attention and save what we can save what we can like that is our goal we're already going to save for sure all the plastic pieces we can that can be just easily taken off to use on our other equipment because we need to where are we goingon to store them old Chief has room well I mean I mean I think some of it potentially could be used at you know other Parks right now I mean it's not necessarily it has to be stored section um like the glider section on the Southeast side of the structure that we might be able to potentially use um within this configuration too so we're going to see exactly how it works we're trying to save whatever we can that we think isn't going to fail like so if that sections made of mostly metal and it's in good shape we're trying to keep it I just don't want to make any promises we right okay so I had a motion from councilman lundine and a second from councilman hman all in favor say I I I all oppos same sign I so that motion carries four to one thank you uh you want to take the next one here so we got uh case six resolution to consider approving repairing the bluebird Park Skate Park okay so we did our research on finding Skate Park Information um there are not very many skate park engineering firms within the country so just an FYI um the ones that we did contact a lot of them didn't get back to us so we got this one which Elk River and a few other local communities just used for their skate parks in the last few years um so we knew they were good and actually gave them um comparable prices after contacting the cities just to see um they of them so um the amount for the new skat Park we have a really big footprint for the skat Park which is great kids skate all over it um it's $400,000 for basically the the bare minimum of what we can put on this site and so um $400,000 for what you see here on that slab and so the other section everything to the right of that in your picture is another 300,000 for the pump track so and that is because of the grading they they do for the concrete structures within the the current skate park footprint they cut out the concrete and put new footings in for those because it's just a floating slab so that increases some of the costs but otherwise they said we did save a substantial amount of money even with having a slab in place already so imagine what that would cost so that's just basically 300 thou or 400,000 is just to make the wood and steel equipment and put it out there and mount it essentially it's not wooden steel it's concrete the whole the whole thing is concrete the the whole thing is concrete so the the different colors you see are and they add some steel to it and some of those but some of it's just different colored concrete what's the useful life on that it's Minnesota a long time a lot longer than the stuff we currently have yes okay so have we ever reached out to the BMX about maybe them working on a pump track over time versus I mean there I I don't see that being a reasonable Endeavor for us but maybe if they have volunteers and they can chip away at it I mean we do uh we do bike bike paths at the County Park and we just do a little bit here and there every every couple years with volunteers or with sometimes we hire a little bit out here and there but I don't know if that's anything we've ever considered there because I think it's a great idea but not for that price what came up at the parkboard meeting about trying to talk to the BMX but I said well the signs we have right now at the skate park say no no bikes allowed right so you know I don't know that that's necessarily in their in their purview to to mess around with stuff like that but I mean why does it say that because people have been I've been ever since I was little time yeah that's one of the big uses for it so I don't know why those signs are even there yeah I don't know we can always take them down yeah you guys are the board to do that I didn't know what said that I haven't been there in yeah I always just felt like a rubble just driving my riding my bike through so well maybe we should leave it there then so we don't take away that feeling of rebellion from young young minds of today so the park board's recommendation is to repair the current existing equipment at this time but they are happy that we went through this process to see what this looks like and the potential cost because this is a goal for them to see this happen in 5 10 years and so having a goal and knowing what you know what is possible and how much it costs really does help you know set things into motion more than you think so they're not obviously ready to invest this money or recommend that investment at this time but they um do want to do think it's one of the priorities for the future I have a opinion at skate park I I'm okay with repairing it but I would like to spend some of the existing money left in the park and red funds and expanded a little bit instead of waiting five or 10 years because it may never get done and it and we have plenty of room on that pad right now to add more and if we just gave some to the playground we should give some to the skateboard park instead of just repairing what we have there because it's been in need of improvement for a long time and I know it's one of the number one concerns or or wants of kids older that won't be on that playground that that would really like it upgrade to that park there are other if that's your direction we can research with the park board to other options um this was the longest lasting one and the one that was originally recommended to look into so sure I also think that if you if you bought new equipment for the uh love bike park um maybe that keep some of those kids off the new equipment too so so change it up a little bit instead of buying the same ramps and everything change up the concept of the that would the layout that would be great like spend a see we you're right we do need a serious talk on what to do with some of them funds and I think we should if we're using some up we should use some more up and restart what what are the priorities and I thought the skateboard park was definitely a top priority I didn't think it was going to be that much money I figured 100 Grand maybe tops but that's uh I think that changes that from a high priority to not that high for that kind of money there's got to be a company that just makes ramps like you get a lot of enjoyment out of a steel and wood ramp that the stuff that's out there I think the direction you go on this thing is we need to get some numbers and all what needs to be done I mean you know you 400,000 just for part of this thing that's that's okay that's not realistic but we need to know we need to know what we're looking at spending on the rest of the other equipment and your expansion that you want to yeah just add a few like at least one or two more things in there well staff will and the park board will discuss this at our next meeting and see what we can come up with so but today today you're looking at yes do we want to repair do we want to repair what is there and that is scheduled for next year already right so it was scheduled for yes next year um in the amount of 29,000 um was in the CIP so there's already that in the CIP for next year for the skate park the um repairing of the equipment cost 177,000 and that was in that was adjusted for now um we got those numbers back in March and we updated them i' I wouldn't be opposed to even look at that saying that the CIP on there take some of this money they take 4,000 and then go where they can go from there I have absolutely no problem with that take 40 out of that 370 368 that's left over roughly and it's still going to leave us some more money to put elsewh and that's giving them 40 Grand I'd like to see a little more than 40 because I know how much each one of those pieces cost and they're not cheap look repair in 29 to to do some other reschedule other rescheduled repairs 40,000 is still another ,000 more 17 to repair what's there so another 10,000 is adding a lot more than you think if it's 17 to repair and administrator wood did find an article this year of one of the cities in Minnesota who was able to find skat Park equipment um on what was it some notar Surplus or some yeah one city was getting rid of their Skate Park equipment and another city purchased it and repaired it so a lot of money but they were able to increase the size of their skate park so we could look at that option as well you said you said other cities had the larger skate park the concrete ones what other cities do you remember um Elk River has one St Cloud has a huge one they just finished there's a lot Minneapolis has multiple Maple Grove has a very large one I think more there's a smaller but I believe that there's is also concrete well so I guess the question for today right now at this moment is do we want to move that up and spend that money now versus waiting till next year to spend it so what's the the time frame on making the repairs I mean if we wait till next year when it's scheduled anyway I mean is that can they do it in the spring it's before people are wan to get out and use it a whole bunch or or is there a reason that we have to pull it up a year or um I don't think so I think just was a recommendation just to repair it right now I mean it's not in good condition so we have parts of it right but I mean but at this point now what I'm saying is that how many how many people are going to use it now for the rest it depends if we get a winter like last year they'll be out there all winter true what about what about this for an option we pull out the pieces that are in need of repair set those aside buy new pieces with the park and wreck funds because it's new and uh it's a and then next year we budget that money that we I mean we use the money we already have budgeted for the repairs equip that we pull out and put it back in just an idea if there's an and I'm not sure what the timeline on their repairs is either um if we're not um it depends on public work schedule because they're the ones who are repairing this equipment and so I mean maybe if you move it forward now they can start as time allows and have more time to I think somebody wants to say something can't speak to the skate park other than every time we're open I know a lot of our kids go to the skate park so you know updating that would be good um if a pump track is in the plan in the future we would be open to either helping you consult or maybe even collaborating on something you know that's something the BMX kids are going to use when we're not um as a dad that's brought my kids all over the country to different bmx tracks there are pump tracks that BMX kids will not touch we've seen all kinds from asphalt to concrete um there is snap together types that cities have used I believe and they don't mind that you know but you got to have a surface underneath it um but either in any event uh if that's something that's in the future we'd be open to it on the snap together tracks is that something that can be reconfigured easily so you know you I believe I believe you pick what you want and that's how it comes okay you know it's it's not like a Lego got it you know it's it's a certain shape gets boled together boled down okay are you timap girl much to that pump track have you seen it okay I personally like those snap together pump tracks but I know there was a discussion on them and I know concrete is a better way to go because of the longivity of them but they were cheaper if I remember correctly putting the snap together ones and that's pretty much what we have right now at the skateboard anyway skateboard park we can look into that as well I mean that's an option well whether we spend the money now or next year doesn't really make much of a difference I guess I mean it's it is not too big a deal so yeah I mean I'm fine making the repairs as soon as possible and uh if you guys want to you know have the park board and give them Direction on you know hey we maybe we'd be interested in adding some more equipment okay you know maybe not changing it all over to concrete and doing all that kind of stuff but we could look at you know some options anyway and and we could maybe reach out to BMX and to R River BMX and see if they are interested in in partnering with on some on something like that so or or a pump track so and I can do that I'm planning on attending their October 14th meeting so ask them then all right uh so yeah I guess we would need a motion then to move these repairs up in in our calendar and and do them sooner than later a motion to move up repair sooner I have a motion from councilman lundine and a second from councilman mayl all in favor say I I all oppose same sign that motion carries 5 Z mayor and councel this would be added to the resolution that Mr Becker is going to be doing for a budget amendment all right and then uh where are we at here case seven considering a request for proposals for the interior roof of the BMX facility hope you guys aren't sick of me yet never never let me just pull up thanks for coming in Cho if you guys don't know our Park Board that we have right now too is we're all talking all these Park things we've got an excellent Park Board I mean they really pay attention they're they're they're awesome to work with so yeah okay after performing our annual facility inspections which we do every year um and through the completion of the new exterior roof of the isan indoor arena which we briefly discussed earlier tonight um there were it was observed by not not only through that inspection but also through um BMX that there were a number of loose and missing bolts on the interior roof of the Ian indoor arena so when the roof was replaced it was actually redone on top of the existing roof so the interior roof is still in place structurally um so it gets to be kind of confusing so that's why we're calling it the interior roof the entire time because we do not want to touch that exterior roof at all right so um so after learning that and the initial findings from the report attached um it warranted further inspection so after additional investigation and inspection of the Interior roof it was determined the Integrity of the structural components were not compromised but that the bolts would require tightening and replacement for the building to remain safe for all users and that all bolts in the roof would need to be inspected individually to ensure they would not become loose um Andy Shader from rum Rover Consultants has been working through this process with us um with the city and the first cost estimate we received was $80,000 and was high enough that a formal RFP process was what staff thought would be best just because we didn't want it to go any higher um but we also um wanted to make sure we were getting the best quotes since it's such a unique situation um the work involves tightening all bools according to the manufacturer specifications and replacing any missing bolts that have loosened and fallen out um bolts will be tightened according to to the manufacturer specifications and will be inspected by the building official the process is estimated estimated to take approximately two weeks and will require Rum River BMX to um halt operations during those repairs the city will work with them and have already discussed this with them um to ensure the work is not scheduled during large or pre pre-planned events um but we require the cancellation of some practices during the weeks um the city engineer did review and we did get back his comments um from when the packet was originally posted um and did say that they did recommend referencing the torque tension reference guide which is now added as exhibit B um as well as Loctite being used on each of the nuts um according to manufacturer specifications for that and for the size of the nut and bolt so this is really to approve the RFP um to move forward so we can get some quotes as these These are could be all over the place it really depends since one thing I'd like to add if I could mayor councel is that we did ask um Mr Shader to go through all of our old documentation our old inspection forms and reach out to the original um structural company that built that building to see if they would honor any warranty or if there was proof that that was done or not done um so we did vet all that through unfortunately it led us to a dead end and we did not get a response and and it technically is not under a warranty but we thought it doesn't hurt to ask so a letter was sent this just going off for our fees to get a price on doing it see why we have that ly discussion it's got to be done better than having a roof falling on somebody we can have a lengthly discussion after we get the the uh proposals anywhere near that man we could maybe we just do that ourselves it's not doesn't take rocket scientists you you get a torque bar on an impact wrench and you set it you get the torque bar to what it needs to be and there you go you don't even have you don't even have to check the torque you just use a torque bar right on your impact so I I did discuss we did discuss that actually through this whole process and um Mr Sylvester did say that he does not think at this point during any of this upcoming season that they'll have time I mean we did just get a new boom that's what I'm yeah we have it as well as the equipment what I was thinking the same thing $80,000 to go tighten some bolts expect things like this hours of Labor have to send somebody that's a lot cheaper than 80 grand I get that one thing I do want to mention is I don't want to highlight that number too high as we don't want people to necessarily use that as their Benchmark number um when that number was provided there was a lot of unknowns at that time so I don't want that to be okay I make a motion to send it all for RPS what is what are the requirements on that to submit for that RFP I mean do you have we put the proposal date as due as October 21st and the proposal requirements are with just it's a pretty short RFP because it's an RFP for quotes and not going out to bid I mean as a contractor it's an allinone we're asking for one lump sum for the whole project cost um that if there's a bolt missing they will replace it they will tighten any loose bolts they'll use as she mentioned um Loctite torque if necessary to the specifications um and we're looking for time frame um if they will warranty their work so if the um which is a yes no and then please explain because if they couldn't be challenging for someone to warranty work that wasn't theirs originally but yet some might be willing to come back and retighten them if they become loose in five years we don't know what contractors are willing to do so we left that at their discretion but to let us know and we will take that into account when we go through all the proposals do you have any idea roughly how many bolts are missing and what size most of them are that my iPad isn't loading it keeps kicking me out so I can't look that up that I do not know and the plans andic it just showed some I saw the pictures I and it didn't identify it specifically in the original plans and specifications like the exact size because of when Jason even reviewed all the documents we had it didn't call out that so he just said according that's why we said that's why he gave that entire chart of torque because depending upon the size if there's assuming a variet of sizes throughout the building then we were covered so that's why he wanted and to use Loctite according to the manufacturers specifications for the size of the bull nut as well does a contractor have to be licensed with any sort of special company to do this or could any joeo with any sort of Contractor License put in a a bid on this because I mean for that kind of money you go rent a lift and you bang it out a couple weeks and it's a heck of a paycheck it doesn't require any specific special spe ifications or certifications to do this a general contractor could do this um however they car liability insurance un listen the city Vice is additionally insured correct million dollar policy Luke's Contracting oh that's kind of why I'm asking here because this is easy stuff so I mean they went up there and looked at it close enough to know that there's actually like a lot of them that are loose yes they did a very thorough inspection um there's multiple ones that are loose um you can see it in and um Mr sher's report um here my your tablet's not working either yeah they do a thorough like test throughout the structure and multiple are loose multiple ones are falling out they've had some Fallout so are we talking 2% 50% is it they have to check all of them yeah all of them need to be checked but we were fortunate enough that eberts when they were working on a roof they did at no cost went up there because you need to go over the the track can't take just a you know depend the lift that you need to have makes you have to have the arm to articulate whatever um and they were willing to look at some of them and allow um some of our guys to go up there and take a look as well to kind of get the grasp the situation so when was that building built 20 started in 2014 it was completed I believe in 2015 I think we're going to find a lot more they into probably never use lock and you can't call the contractor did Skip message you sent them a letter they tried multiple ways to contact them anyway they could and could not that is happens every time anyway I made made motion anyway you want to second that motion we're just going out for bids at this point so it's not we're going out for proposals yes yeah sorry proposals I'll second that okay I have a motion from councilman lundine and a second from councilman hren all in favor say I I all oppose same sign that motion carries 5 Z moving on to K8 consider a snowmaker for the sleding hill at the most recent August 27th Parks and Recreation board meeting um we did share that the staff had contacted Wild Mountain um to see if there is any used snowmakers and recommendations and I just want to give a shout out to our Parks assistant josica because it was her who contacted them and um asked a lot of the right questions and found a lot of the good information and she's been great so um but um they did recommend they didn't we first asked a few questions um would you allow us would you want to donate your snowmaker for us for a sponsorship um or do you would you let us use one or can we buy a used one from you lots of questions right and um they did not have a used one but he did give a lot of great recommendations and said that for what we're using the cost of what they use for a large snow making operation like they have to do is probably over the top and would cost us a lot of money just because of the um snow making um liid that they use and they have to use um So to avoid that he just suggested these specific snow making machines instead if we purchased five of them potentially that would probably and even on a low press regular household pressure air comp uh pressure washer um that would be sufficient to our needs to see the amount of snow that we' want for this sleding hill and so after bringing this forward to the parkboard um they were sure the cold front is what they're called the snow guns that were recommended are roughly just under $1,000 a piece plus add-ons um and then also shipping costs um which aren't in that number um there's an image attached but so they weren't comfortable with purchasing five at this time as well as the um pressure washing machines that would be necessary also which aren't included in this price but they did say they don't see that as a priority at this time just because they're not sure what winter is going to do it's not every year we don't have snow um so that was their consensus but they did say they recommended maybe trying two or three at first um and having a smaller investment and seeing how it goes um but I think that I think the Public Works has a pressure washer they had bought for the other one that we did they have the air compressor so it's it's mainly just getting the gun well I thought didn't we do something similar to this in the past already yeah it was a it was a it was it was not with a purchased gun it was one that we tried to make ourselves okay it was kind of a yeah and and it's mean years when you don't have the snow I mean it's not like we're talking about probably doing the whole hill with snow we're just talking because it so many people use it when we do have the snow that it wears down a path of dirt you know right down the center of the thing and then you know it's kind of you know looking to fild that section when we get a big snowfall and it's windy it blows it right off that hill at the top really takes it puts it down at the bottom so it's amazing how many people use that Hill it's just crazy it's popular really is some of the best money we've ever spent and it's but it's been an ongoing situation they haven't used it because of lack of snow on it facing salts and the Sun is hard on it I I I don't I don't see us any problem with getting two or three of them at that cost like you said you already have you know a pressure washer I don't know how many pressure washers we have now that would I know we'd have one I believe at least for that situation but I'm not sure how many either so we factor that into the cost if it's big enough he might be able to W it I don't know what Matt Matt would know more about it and I think you can he could I think he got one of he got those got that pressure washer at a pre screaming deal too so I don't see it I I I think we should like I said it's been an issue and I trying to take something to make snow and going to be a $3,000 investment and he has to get another pressure washer that cost is going to be minimal I I agree 100% can't can't we use dedication funds for this it's all new then why don't we buy at least three guns and why don't we get a new power washer and whatever he need so they got a setup that will last for many many years what's the useful that's one thing that that that that Hill gets there's tons of kids every time I drive by it they think they need it they suggested we needed five of them for what we wanted to do though that is what the recommendation was from the um owner Wild Mountain so do we have the water to supply to five we oh yeah yeah we have the fire hydrant and we do have the hoses from Splish Splash so I'm okay with five well I we've been talking about this for years I think it we could have used the last year I make a motion we use Park dedicated money get five of them see math got for pressure pressure you know the pressure washer that might be a minimal thing that you can just get at any time whatever so do we have to have five Public Works guys running this at the same time then or do you mount them on stands they're on tripod they on tripod they're set up and you can move them according to where you want the snow to go okay what's the useful life on these do you know a nozzle on a pressure washer so it's just going to be replaced in a nozzle okay I just questioned how well they work well if he if the guy from Wild Mountain is saying this I'm it's coming from pretty good source I'd rather start with three than five see how yeah but then you got to mess around with moving them around I mean for an extra yeah it might not even work for us I don't I know but if you're going to and I guess you could do that but if he's saying they're going to work I mean if he says you need five of them to cover the space you're trying to cover I mean this is a lot cheaper option than cuz I mean it's an actual snow used snowblowing machine was they were around 20 ,000 30,000 this this is a much cheaper option than what we originally even looked at so illumin if we don't have snow this year give it a snow a great deal yeah I make a motion go ahead and order five of them I'll second I have a motion from councilman lundine and a second from councilman hean all in favor say I I all oppose same sign and just to clarify that's with with the pressure washers that would be needed and all the that would I think we need to see he might be able to get I'm not sure what he needs but just to add to the motion that whatever is needed according to Public Works to make it work if we can if we can roll four out of one pressure washer I would rather we just do four type of thing versus if the fifth one is well puts us over the top and you got to buy another pressure washer I I guess I don't know where that would what's that Park dedication I agree with I also but I'm not sure we'll be able to know that we'll we'll see what it can say but I'm sure it depends on the pressure right value of the pressure washer as well as it'll be a trial and error I think at first that motion carried 5 Z did I say that already Yes okay and then you were wanting to clarify but yeah so yeah I'd say I mean the intention was to get what they need in addition to the five guns to make the five work so okay thank you okay so moving on to K9 consider Fairway greens North Park concept plan yeah I don't think so and we're almost over Halfway Gone with money okay Fairway greens north um the city was dedicated a parcel on this kind of on the south end of Fairway greens North development right as you enter the development and at the first intersection on seven um this currently there's only one park that the city owns Which is Academy Park but has limited access during the school hours because it's unavailable it's um for the Arts and Science Academy use only during those hours um and as you know we've seen a lot of development on the east side of Highway 65 and so the concept is to create a natural playground with the parcel and include natural looking elements so here is the park as you can see it's right at that intersection um this is just a very simple layout because it costs as we all know a lot of money to get an architect to design these so we didn't want to move forward with that yet unless we knew what you guys wanted to see moving forward so this is a simple um art artist rendition that Julia put together um so some of the element ideas which are included within this budget concept that we put forth is two tree decks so and one with a ramp and accessible pass so there will be an accessible path of sidewalk that goes around the entire park and that's what you saw that gray Circle um and then um of this size with net and other accessories for climbing um a gazebo for sitting and enjoying the park as well as two small TPS for kids to climb in Hollow logs an embankment slide as well as a log total cost of the natural playground elements and the addition of a swing set is roughly $35,000 um the rough area footprint um is 500 running feet of sidewalk stting at the road which would um require a crosswalk from the sidewalk across the street at this time um or an addition of another sidewalk to that corner so it's whatever Direction you'd like us to go in um which cost costs roughly another $20,000 for that accessibility um we have Phil for the area from the bluebird Park worm so we can make that embankment ourselves um using that dirt that we already have um filling the area with either sand or wood chips um we the park were originally discussed sand discussed using sand which we removed from a lot of our Parks but so that kids can play in it and use it for some of the stuff that we have out here to make it more of that natural feeling um an off street parking lot option was also in the layout um which we did have factored in as 50 to 60,000 just because all the parking would be street parking which we've dealt with and um the recommendation from the park board was to move forward with the park and they wanted to see that but they said um to potentially save the off street parking um until a later date but to include it in the plan so that Future Park boards and councils knew what the intent was I would like to know can we get by with doing that without having an architect involved right we don't have to have an architect involved so that's why we did this this FC colorful rition that this is this one is actually reasonable look at all that fun stuff that you get for a 7% of the cost of the other one well and it doesn't it doesn't include any of the labor and so um depending on how that's looked at we would go up for bids similar to what we're just looking at for the roof um to see what that cost would be so we'll have to factor that in and that's why we increase the cost I don't know if I like I don't know about the gazal portion I think we could just put shaded areas up could be a lot cheaper than disil but that's my opinion I think they weren't very expensive it's not very expensive comparatively it's roughly the same and just gives a different different vibe that's about what the shade structures are too my recommendation would be let's get some pricing on labor installing it so we all have a final number I don't see any problem with going ahead with it I have a question about the parking lot what is is that then yes that would be a pay parking lot which is what we require require I would we require that within throughout the city for all of our parking lots for every business and every we would we wouldn't need to do the parking lot now she's just saying if you did it it I think we should put a parking area in there yeah it does it's impia surface let's break some rules well let's let's let's say 40 Grand not that we're making rules not a rule saying you have to do that how how many changes would we have to make to have well if we had an Institutional zoning District it would be different so throwing that out there I I think I think we should move forward with it but I still think we need to get prices on what the labor is going to put it on we can't keep throwing this on Public Works to build this stuff you know manys yeah I mean I we could sit here and debate it all day long and I think you let's look at it and if it's going to parking lot's going to be 50,000 we'll see what kind of money we have left over after installing we can always add the parking lot into it but I think the parking lot is I think it's the best idea to at least have it plan forward in there at this time and we can also and maybe Finance director buter can speak on this but through our pavement um management process we've added trails and other things in it's something that we consider too to see on that pricing comes back for next year and decide if we want to do the parking lot so just a thought but is the parking lot uh is that something we can use Park dedication funds for or no part of the park even if it's not equipment okay should we prioritize some of these things try to get as many of those items done with installation I think that's what they're all looking at yeah it includes all of these things so two Tre one with a ramp and accessible pass the Gazebo the small Tepe the hollow log the embank slide and the log maze are included with it's I don't know if the whole list is on here there's a boat that like kids can sit in that's wood as well as a rope pullup and the swing set also isn't on here so an actual swing set it's GNA be really cool I love the idea I I like the I like the and I love the price I like the idea that it's also handicap accessible that's I mean that we have to get more and more of that involved with our Parks is the handicap accessibility there's getting be more and more of that that is the goal to make it as much accessible this is harder to make accessible just because of the groundwork that it's going on but at least with the path all the way around it we're providing easier access to these elements what do you guys think sand versus wood chips or what do you it was 7,000 for sand versus five for wood chips I think wood chips got be placed all the time but Sand's going to blow around it's going to be probably have to add sand I don't know I like wood chips but that's me personally and Sand's not good for wheelchairs sand is not good for wheelchairs they'll dig right in and be stuck immediately the other thing I'll say about sand and what we've had in some of our Parks um like uh neighboring Hills had big sand area you get sandur it's like what grows in it is weeds and sandur so you have Public Works going out there tilling it to kill it because you get complaints about the sambur is from I think don't blame chips okay we got plenty of wood to chip yeah this might be a good opportunity to say that we do go with playground safe certified uh wood chips it's not regular wood chips what's the difference um they're certified so they're not getting splinters and larger pieces how much more is that that's the price difference yeah that's the difference between sand versus wood chips that's already built in unless you want us to look into rubber no that stuff's horrible all right well so I think uh you're just looking for direction on this one so this is just Direction so we'll go out you want to go out for pricing for installation and go with would you like to see that through the RFP process similar to this so we'll bring back bring for an RFP y sounds good that's what we'll do thank you thank you all right anything on the consent agenda that uh make a motion to approve the consent agenda thanks to Conexus for getting involved again and illuminate that's that's good $5,000 that's awesome yep we need more of that hopefully hopefully it's coming they should electricity being used right yeah for sure all right uh I had a motion from councilman line to approve the consent agenda do I have a second second I have a second from councilman hom all in favor say I I I'll oppose same sign that motion carries 5- Z anything else your motion tojn second I have a motion to adjourn from councilman lendine and a second from councilman hren all in favor say I I all oppose same sign that motion carries 5- Z we are adjourned and we'll jump into our committee of the whole here shortly take