##VIDEO ID:psId8soVG2w## all right we can go ahead and call the City Council budget work session meeting to order if we can all rise for the Pledge of Allegiance please doing roll call we have all members present do we have any public comment this evening hearing none I'll look for a motion to adopt the agenda motion to adopt second I have a motion to adopt the agenda from councilman heeman and a second from councilman line all in favor say I hi all oppose same sign that motion carries 5 Z I don't know why every once in a while I hesitate with the the names they're just jumbled on in my head and it's like it's mostly me and Steve too that is it's because it's Luke and lundine and it's I just I don't know why I have trouble with that it's just silly but um I got it right though all right Mike we're moving on to work session item F1 budget discussion so um yeah so this is uh third budget work session um this one I don't have canned set materials and I have everything with but this is really a council L discussion at this point um I don't know if Jaden can put this up on the screen um but I'll have her put up is just this is that uh that Levy tax rate analysis workbook right that's got data going back to 2002 just to give give it give you guys an understanding of currently where we're at with um projected Levy and uh and projected tax rate um just to kind of give you that broader perspective um yeah I guess until that comes up LGA money did that stay the same this year as it did last year then or did we lose some of that back it went up did go up a little bit it went up a small amount okay yeah you don't see it going back to what it was years previous at this point I mean I I think that I think that during the Great Recession when we had um the clawback on on LGA I think I think there were enough people around the state that suddenly remembered why LGA is there at all in the first place um and you know in the end LGA is there just because LGA is LGA is basically there to help out cities that end up being a regional center of some type where I can only tax Ian residents but I need to provide services for another 8,000 people that show up not super workable um and if that's difficult to identify in this area you go to you go to Southwest Minnesota or Northeast Minnesota it's super obvious I mean if you're if you're Marshall Minnesota or or even gr Granite Falls or your uh Grand marray on the North Shore yeah you you need to have LGA or you nobody would be able to afford to live in your city so I don't really see that backtracking in in a significant way way um yeah so as it is right now um roughly 6 and a half% increase in the levy and that equates to about you know roughly two and a half% tax rate increase um one other thing I I would like to add the LGA fund thing the LMC does fight for smaller cities and and that type of money too so I don't see it going anywhere either it's been it was a pretty heavy Focus today actually yeah just uh this is a this is that preview site I always end with uh this I wish this was a little taller I always uh end with this at the December presentation right we talk about we're going to manage our finances better than everybody else right that there's a durable competitive advantage to being had uh in managing your capital capital maintenance and capital projects at a high level and um that should yield results and this is one of those ways that we track TR those results um when I look at this right we've gone down 47% over that time span uh next best is uh East bethl at 33 that is a really I mean we're basically doing 50% better than than second place um The Economist and finance guy in me looks at that and says uh just remember there is a limit but we were pretty high originally too so it's easier to start from a high point go to a low point just like yeah yep there is some of that right um but yeah there is a limit I I just I I hope we don't have an expectation of there's 10 to 15% decreases in the tax rate every year that's not mathematically mean we have to actually pay for some things mathemat mathematically that won't work um so yeah we do actually have to pay for some things or or as as I think everybody's been here long enough to hear me say is that if you really want you know for example Capital if you really want the capital Levy to go down you actually do have to remove something like something actually has to go you know if you want PD budget to go down well most of that's Personnel so you actually have to get rid of an officer and then say Travis this is the thing you're doing that we no longer need um so those are and on that sword when they're talking about our permits and we're as busy as we are that's going up and if you start cutting officers that's really going to Short I don't the police budget as much as I don't want to disagree with you that it's very high but I think that's one thing that we have to stay away from I I I honestly I don't want to see any of that I mean he did a great job with that Public Safety funds to offset some of those costs for us I think Travis is doing an awesome job and and being fiscally responsible for that my only complaint is the squad cars I I cutting off I don't think that's going to happen it's the squad cards has been a disappointing thing because it was not in uh one the offering what is offered for Pursuit rated vehicles has dwindled dramatically in the last 10 years garbage and 10 years ago I could get a uh a Ford Taurus Pursuit rated Ford Taurus and not not equipped but just ready to be equipped um I paid 23 Grand 10 years ago for that now you can't even get that that's not a it's not a vehicle that's even for anymore what do does anybody know what European Police use for cars I mean do they have the same standards as we have because cars are a lot different well even even if we could get it just getting it shipped here would kill us I mean end up spending seven to 10 grand just to have it shipped so all right unless there's unless there's some sort of you know if you have a Toyota dealer and they can get a Toyota Pursuit vehicle from there that's you know and it's all made in in Japan anyway you know so they're shipped anyway I mean I don't know if that's anything we've ever considered because these these domestic cars aren't lasting worth a hoot for us well there's got to be a creative solution is what I'm saying that's still safe I I I mean in the past it it always just worked because as an automobile manufacturer you wanted your vehicles to be used as police vehicles that was seen as like a a badge of honor right like literally like socially as as a member of society but also like hey this vehicle is tough enough to hand handle what police are doing and when I was a kid it was the crown the crowny some of those and there was the pouth before that he's not even against it but you what' you say he's not even against buying Crown vict you want to go back to you know but for whatever reason auto manufacturers don't seem to see it quite the same way as they they once did and so the offerings that they put out are fewer and you know a smaller number of vehicles like lines of vehicles like the tourist is just no longer there but then what they are producing is a smaller number in total quantity besides and it's not helpful but I think they're I think they probably just are done saying all right here we'll give you a vehicles at cost is I think probably what the analysis ended up being there but I know we had a conversation about going from five years to six years on squads and I I don't remember what the outcome of that was but we stuck at five could we maybe just run a couple test cars like have two of the fleet go six years and just see what the number difference is kind of give future consoles an option maybe that's kind of what we've had to do we are running we so just because there's this vehicle coming on okay there isn't a vehicle coming off right so we we it's challenging to get so we have to get a we're going to have to get a fiveyear time frame that when we're fully staffed and when we're operational right so we're getting close um to see what we're going to do I would say in you know we're in 2025 by the end of 2025 on our Fleet plan that we looked at we should be able to re-evaluate that because then we have the full staff which is their full mileage type thing to see what those cars are because we do have the cars that are running up in you know that trying to think what the oldest car would be I can't 2018 whatever but so we do have just because it's you know it says it's replacing a car it's not replacing the car was still operating those Vehicles so we'll have a pretty good handle my guess at the end of 2025 to see what we came up with that Fleet plan which is you know the the the threeyear life cycle as a primary Patrol vehicle then the rest of its life cycle as a secondary Patrol vehicle plus the administrative Vehicles we'll see how that actually plays out now part of that how how to figure that's going to be challenging because we have a vehicle that was on the 2023 Capital plan that was ordered in September of 2022 that will finally be hit in the road next week right so you're talking September 2022 we ordered a vehicle there was in a 23 plan that will finally hit the road now so think about what life cycle how does that work with trying to figure out those life cycle it's it's a challenge because it's not very consistent you know even with our plan that we had because we didn't get the replacement when we thought we get the replacement sure so it's a little do we have any money for pens no there's one can we increase that budget that was a free one so Travis brings that from home okay um I also didn't realize that each officer had their own squad car basically I didn't realize that was the the sort kind of the typically in the same squad car that's what one of the officers told me and I didn't realize that I was thinking basically one car would always be day one car would always be night type of thing I didn't know that they so it depends on the mileage what they're at the vehicle so some some of the vehicles are R uh 24 hours a day not so we don't have any vehicles that are R 24 hours a day 7 days a week none of them are because that actually just destroys it it's ridiculous so depending on some vehicles are going to be running 12 hours a day every day and then some of the other vehicles on occasionally run 24 hours a few days depending on how the rotation so we look at the mileage for that month period those officers and what they traditionally drive so when we have that plan of our primary Patrol Vehicles when that one Cycles out into the secondary Patrol vehicle we want to have that mileage should be consistent rather than you know and having spread the mileage out over the fleet over the years so every year it's supposed to have X amount of miles so that by the time you reach five six years you should have the right amount of miles so you don't have one that's really high one's really low so some Vehicles might only be driven 12 hours a day every other day and then some are driven 12 hours a day every day and then couple on occasions where they'll double up on you know 2 12 hour shifts within a day okay count somebody who doesn't see it or or you know wouldn't necessarily know but John and Travis do quite a bit of put quite a forth quite a bit effort forth trying to keep those Vehicles kind of in their Lane right if because you can't just buy the new vehicle and then just run that thing 247 and then know you have to wait five years on that one while these other you know you have to balance that out and they do they put forth a good deal of effort making sure that they're actually using them in a fashion that that will get them to last the five years um to your to your notion on six um one thing I've always done in my mind on these things is there are to my mind there are certain items on a capital plan um that most commonly not exclusively but most commonly deal with fire and police and that is there are certain equipment in those categories that simply has to work like it just is not an option to not it's not an option for long guns to not work it's not an option for handguns to not work it's is not an option for tasers to not work and it's also in my opinion not an option for a squad vehicle to not start um now I will make a recommendation about useful life that I think gets us there if Council wants to change that to four years five years six years whatever that's fine but I'm going to continue to recommend five because I think that in my years of practice that's a workable number where I have a high degree of confidence that no officer is going to be called to it got knows what kind of scene and not have a vehicle working so they also did talk about uh today at LMC there is going to be a a possible decrease in um disability payments to PD or an increase in our premiums so that is I'm sure you're probably aware of that but that is something that was discussed today I don't know when that's going to take place they just said it has to happen yeah I I don't want to I don't want to say too much let's say this is that um we've done well enough on workers comp that an increase would probably still be dramatically better than where we were how about that okay we've done well Travis Travis has done well enough on taking care of the things that we need to take care of on the front end and annually ongoing with staff to be able to mitigate those risks and our worker count premiums are tied to police Department have dropped a lot in the last four years and it is because of what Travis is doing okay so good Minneapolis has seen the opposite by a lot oh I bet they are oh yes they are and I did give there was a chart I gave you at some point in Council that had like the last six-year premiums over sixy year time frame yep so it wasn't there and to the point where I think the highest was around 12 or 13,000 per officer per year times 10 that was the highest um yeah that'd be the other thing just remind the council I brought this up before is you know I don't know what insurance renewals are going to be right I've got an estimate in there and I'm reasonably confident in my estimate but uh when we come around to September 3D yeah September third um we still are not going to know that information boy I would love to um if we have any doubts about where we're at or that we are too close to the margin we really should add either you know 5% or 100,000 or whatever to the levy with the recognition that we intend to go back down but remember is once you said it in September if you find out oh shoot that was too low it's already too bad so what happened last year when we we waited until the last meeting in September instead of the first meeting in September to pass that preliminary budget or um is that right then we did have the insurance numbers in time we did yeah we and we can do that it's the so the reason that you pretty much every city does first meeting in September first meeting in December it is so that you have a second meeting in that month to fix you know like let's say um September 3rd uh big car accident you get called out you get called out and you're gone and I don't even have a quorum all right well now I still have one more meeting to try try to get a Corum to try to get something pass so if we do want to you know talk about the budget again on the third and we say you know what this this isn't going to work but then if we don't do take any action and we wait for that second meeting is September everybody's got to we got to have a quorum got I mean there's not all after that the only other option is a mayor to call a special meeting um you know in the wiing dates and then there is a deadline in September and December for me to report that information to the county Andor State what happens if you don't um my recollection is if you don't do like if I don't report my PR L I didn't report it um you would be automatically reup for last year's Levy okay and if that leaves you short got it too bad so sad so uh mayor and councel just to chime in a little bit um we did wait and called a special meeting last year it was September 26 that we approved the preliminary budget uh or I'm sorry 25th was a Monday we called a special meeting to get it in the week to make sure it went to the county in time why was that though was it because we were waiting for the insurance numbers or was there some other reason that we had to do it that way or I think there were just my recollection was that there were just continued discussions okay okay and fine yeah I I can't remember the details of of that but I mean we we considered an awful lot of options and scenarios I mean it was it was a lot that what he's got proposed already with a 6 and a half% increase to the levy overall 2 and a half% tax increase if we set we can we can go down from that we just can't go up from that and I mean setting this preliminary Levy isn't going to hurt us we just can't go over that amount and I think that's protecting ourselves all the way across the board then we can start really focusing on what we can do to maybe like he said that $100,000 or that 5% where can we can we can we joggle things around make some other adjustments to make that happen by what he's proposed right now I I think that is a safe bet I'm not saying that's what we're going to end it as but we can't go over that we can definitely go under it we just can't go over it and I think setting that initial Levy is a smart choice and then us being fiscal to drop it from there we just know we can't go over that yeah how much money per per percent are we looking at like if you went from 2 and a half% down to 1 and a half% per se oh so you're you're you're wondering on change in Levy or change in the tax rate Levy well I think you're saying if we wanted to get let's say we wanted to get to a 0% Levy or not Levy but tax rate tax rate what are we talking what kind of dollars do we need to save to get to zero is what you're asking 2 and a half% to get to zero get that 2 and a half% to zero how much do we have to cut out of the budget roughly from that Levy roughly ,000 bucks less is that just 1% or is that the 2.5 to zero that rough math that gets you to from 26 down to zero rough math roughly 100 that's where I'd like to be on a preliminary even would be to get to that I mean Mike I mean if you if you uh and I don't know if I really haven't had a lot of time to discuss and I I know I said I would by this meeting and I still haven't so I I would say this I I I certainly understand um the intent um you know council members always are going to have a little different look at this than I right um council member inherently has an incentive to have a shorter view of this I'm always thinking of this as how do I get Nan residents to pay the smallest amount of tax in aggregate over 40 years but that's not the incentive structure any Council ever has that's not how that works um you know I would say is that when we're looking at you know market value is only going up 3 and a half% compared to what we had been seeing with you know the prior of you know 13 27 12 12 14 13 14 wow um you think three and a half is where we're going to be this it's gonna well right now 3.4 uh it what's going on there is is that we've got a bunch of existing homes that have actually dropped in value because remember they actually have to use Market data and they have to hit 90 to 105% of actual so actually have to look at actual sales and if sale prices actually start going down your values have to go down that by Statute um but we have added some commercial and we've added some new homes so we get a little bit of an offset but I mean there are going to be other communities that you know this year are going to be seeing you know an 8% six or eight% drop in market value so we're we're fairly fortunate given the amount of development we've had we're fairly fortunate that we're only talking about an an increase at all first of all and that we're actually get me to three and a half but this is one of those times where you know the last two years especially when I say 27 and 13 in my view this is those three levers I would have been putting more into fund balance right because this is where I could we could have evened that out I don't I probably know the budget better than anybody at least that's supposed to be how that works right I don't know where 100,000 comes from unless I get a really really knock out insurance renewals I don't I don't mean one I mean I mean all of the insurance renewals would have to be Knockouts well I have an idea that uh I think we need to have a serious discussion about our Park amenities and what we think is good enough because if you look at the average household if they have a running and driving car they're not going to just replace it just to replace it they're going to they're going to be fiscally responsible even if it's got a few Nicks and bruises on it they still use it because that's what the household does so I think we need to look at how we spend on the parks especially the the tennis court repaving I asked somebody that has played tennis for the last seven or eight years and they said Matson and Academy Park are two of the nicest ones they played on in the last seven or eight years and those are both scheduled for to be redone and that that's not happened I mean sure we're only kicking that down a little bit and that's not going to make much difference but I think overall as an aggate we need to have a serious discussion about that because households aren't we're not a Dina where Ian people expect a little bit less than I think what our staff or our Parks Board might want but the staff or the Parks Board might not have to or might not have the the fiscal respons or the fiscal mind that we might have because we're you know we listen to it all day from people you know why are you replacing that tennis court it's perfectly fine so I think we should have that because that could save us a lot of money and I think our parks are real I think our parks are too nice to be honest they're too nice for yeah so adjusting useful Els I mean that's one of the things where you have when you have a camp comprehensive plan we're going out this many years one of the things I Matt and I talk about this every now and then is when we assign useful life and we try to understand that we're playing the right game in the right ballpark but in the end what you really end up finding out is what is the real useful life and it's because of things like that we like oh yeah this is scheduled for 2025 but really this should have been 2027 well now when you start to aggregate that data and you start running this plan decade after decade starts to become really clear very precisely what is the useful life of every and when you start the plan in 2019 do you know no no but can I get a pretty good guess on stuff yep um but we'll learn those things um but again is when you push when you move them out um the effect on a levy today is smaller it's quite muted but if you do the but if it Al together it's a much bigger savings yeah yeah yeah and that was I mean part of what we did last year is pushed everything back in that CIP as much as we we could to you know I just I tend to agree with you though probably I mean even you look at at uh whis Ridge there where we just talked about I mean that is uh depending on your standard of what you think is acceptable or not acceptable fine I played on it right I mean if you if you're playing basketball on a gravel driveway which many people do you're going to be more than thrilled with that court right so but at the same time at the same time if somebody gets out and gets hurt we'd have the same responsibility no no if they fall out there because of the uneven ground they can turn around and Su the city and I guarantee you they're going to win and it's going to be a lot less money to upgrade that to get it then would we have to fix every side walk and make sure there's no r i mean it's city property what's the difference between Park property city property makes no sense I mean and I will say I know you like sidewalks I know if I'm just saying though I don't think to throw any cities under the bus was at a city in the county recently where the sidewalks and some spots were in real rough shape I mean and they I do have some pictures from Matson Park if you want to see what they look like that we went out the other day I do have pictures on the laptop of Matson Park courts if you want to see what they look like yeah I've played on them they're they're fine well I think they just we well we resurfaced the basketball court I guess but we uh they're Point Blank they don't what are you doing trying to corrupt this computer when we visited who put the finger in there that one's been that crack has been sealed it was sealed when I was there I thought a few weeks ago okay this group of 10 people was not using this specifically right I guess I use the other one it's pred lot but it's not deterring anybody from playing I mean but they still had about this one is we just did it what three years ago or something like that or no it's it was right after I got here so it would have been been that long 20 I was going to guess 2018 H well I wasn't even on the console I thought this was something we did like very did we repaint the lines recently well maybe repainting the lines but I remember this one because the contractor painted it flip-flop from the green and the blue the way they we had intended and so they' give us money back on that but see I was thinking re resealed it and stuff recently I I would I guess I you know I will throw this out there my dad was a structural engineer and so he drilled certain things into my head and I would say this is that regardless of whether you want to research Sur them or you know tear them up or whatever um he would say first thing you need to do is keep water from going into the cracks otherwise you're going to risk ruining the whole entire thing in real short order see it's up for a total reconstruction though it's not up for a a repave it's up for a total reconstruction that to me it's not to that point no but I'm saying just yeah at a minimum no matter what we should be filling the cracks because you keep the water out from under it that will make it last longer I mean could we just do that with Hot Patch is that would that Band-Aid or you are you talking for the concrete at Matson Park no for for the tennis for the tennis court is that concrete under that that's T that's that's concrete okay could we we did seal excuse me last couple weeks the uh basketball court at Matson Park and the basketball court at Bluebird Park those got sealed I do recall us painting lines at Matson Park but we added pickleball lines in there yep that's part of the painting we did over there can we Hot Patch the cracks with with asphalt I think you'd want to use a different sealant with that I'm not sure what that would be but I don't think that the Hot Patch would um be the best option okay we did use filler crack filler back in the day before we resurfaced it um and it came in like almost like a giant ketchup bottle and Public Works had sealed with that in those cracks the thing we saw though is at that time the cracks were large like the some of those ones that you see now and they work for the small ones but they didn't work for like the Cass on ones um they they just weren't designed to hold into that but for the small cracks it worked I think it bought us a few more years because I think that was in 2015 or so I'd have to look back to be sure but fill in those cracks but those large ones when they get too big it doesn't work so Jason would know this are those just slab on grade or do they actually have footings because I why are they cracking so bad obviously it's because of Minnesota but if you have a you have footings so those just must be slab on grade I I think it's a floating slab yeah okay yeah but the footings wouldn't do any good in the middle the footings only work on the outside edge yeah that's and that's that's footings are only meant for where there is no so like your house is on footings so the inside Compass of your house your slab doesn't fluctuate because the footings keep and that's all insulated so the cold can't get underneath your slab right but if you have footings outside on a just a PL on slab the slab will still do this because the ground underneath the slab still still freezes and it does this and that's why it's cracking okay I always thought a they call it a FL so they have a perimeter Edge uh thicken slab and a floating slab is technically a 12 in x 12 in a 12 in x 12 in outside border but then a slab on grade is flat but I thought if you did a driveway with the with the found I I get what you're saying but with the the I can't even think of the word that's too confusing but there's got to be a better option that lasts longer because I I just don't see us how we can keep floating slab like they do on a garage yeah when you just say a slab slab is when you say a floating slab the floating slab is going to have a wider and deeper on the edges right that's a floating slab just a piece of concrete poured on like a sidewalk that's not a floating SL that's just a slab that's not a floating slab it's just a slab so they' floating because it it moves it goes evenly with the heaving of the so if you have rebar in it it doesn't crack or it's not supposed to not as much I'm just wondering how we do this because they I don't those one of the only ways to do it is put foam down bury the foam down to keep the foot Frost from getting underneath and causing it to flex that's the only thing you could do with that and when you go to do that you're just tripling the cost of it it just it's yeah growing up my dad only see there's only two kinds of concrete new and cracked so oh right yeah you know so I mean you can fight and fight but it in the end he's like once it cracks seal it don't let water get in there that's that's it so all right so we seems like there's a consensus to move the Manson Court work out like do maintenance but like the larger the one the one court is nice do you have any other any specifics at all but I me you're just talking generally on Park amenities Park amenities in general take a look at our options on can we push some things out can we can we make some things last longer than or you know I mean I don't know if there's anything that we can totally disregard as far as stuff that needs to be replaced but Whisper Ridge did you did you already take stuff out for that that would need to be do we have that in there as far as that has not been in the CIP for right fencing you do have there though you said right yep fencing was still in we don't we may depending on what we put there we may want what yeah most of whisper ridges for me from my perspective anyway is waiting for direction is more of the well I mean is there anything else as far as as maintenance and things I don't I don't know of anything specific and I I don't mean to bag on the park board but they obviously want the nicest Parks because that's on their thing that's their their role is to the nicest part correct but I think we have to have a little realistic conversation about what needs to be perfect and what doesn't because like I said our taxpayers the way they act is it might not been be in accord with how we're acting and we're spending their money so we need to be in accord with the majority of our our tax payers so I don't know have any specific examples I I was kind of shocked to hear that Matson was up for total reconstruction and Academy Park it's got some some peeling of the surface on the far outside but otherwise it's in great shape so I don't know why that was on there for a recondition too um so there's just that disconnect I think in well a a lot of remember a lot of these items I'm placing them on there and I'm taking a best guess and you know when I talk to Department it's always if you don't need to do it you don't need to do it right you can push back this is the beauty of it right this is how you give a department head a good incentive they recognize it so long as there's light at the end of the tunnel they'll be patient and if they're not then we start having the issues that we used to have when I got here where department heads asked for all kinds of stuff so they they asked for 10 things so they can hopefully get two well that was kind of a perverse incentive and which is what happened the basketball courts were up this year and the the tennis courts were next year and so we moved the tennis courts because they are in worse condition and sealed the basketball courts to preserve their lifel longer so we're redistributing stuff when we see basetball cours now we how far back do we move that oh I'd have to look I just don't think ouren need to be perfect I agree that's that's all my so how we do that I have no idea Bluebird 28 we did them the same year because it was more affordable pay mobilization this on yeah I mean I guess if you want to look into that now I mean what what do we what else do we have for you know Park Park replacement or you know question maintenance and stuff over the next let's say three years or five years something like that I mean if we look at some options here what we could what we could push back or we could change does asphalt do better than Concrete in the winter because it maybe it's a little more flexible is there a recom is there a requirement to have concrete tennis courts I don't have an answer for that because our basketball courts aren't crack nearly as bad as the tennis courts gr growing up my dad would only say is there's a reason free some freeway sections are in concrete and it is because it definitively lasts longer period concrete does concrete definitively lasts longer period but you don't see that on all roadways because is definitively more expensive right um so you can have asphalt it is cheaper this is why most driveways are going to be asphalt not concrete it's cheaper to put in it's not going to last as long the basketball courts have been how long have does anybody know when those the Matson Park and the bluebird Park basketball courts were were actually laid down because they they're still pretty good it's been a long time as might even be the same time as the tennis courts as long as I remember I I maybe we' and then the tennis courts were when I can't remember what you said 1906 they've been there forever 1906 they've been there as long yeah but they've been resurfaced and they've been here since I yeah but they've been redone yeah yeah we did in 2018 the tennis court yeah so that was sure that was right after I got here and 2018 years and they're in worse shape than the asphalt basketball oops that have been courts that have been there for 21 20 years maybe we're just using the wrong material when you say resurface are you talking they pulled everything out and put brand new the difference no for for a resurface in a reconstruct on a tennis C is basically the same as like you would have on a road right like sorry it was 2018 we have a resolution that we approved the one company resurface uh for resurface and uh there were three bids received and the final one final cost was 17,488 for resurface not a reconstruct so the concrete was left in place what is next year are we up for reconstruct or resurface resurface again reconstruct was like 72,000 but or 74 Mike was that for my quote the 74,000 K this is from ktie ever's um original number from um 2019 she number you have in here yeah so this detail for there I'm still working her detail this was we did get an updated quote for Madson Park and it is around 48,000 for that reconstruct for that Park what's the number you have there 74 what you say 74 74,000 what's on there I can madon Park Tennis Court reconstruction $431 it's the line right above the Blue Line okay yeah I can see that from the screen the screen screen I mean I think we could push it out a couple years that's basically well I mean do you want to push it out or you want to just change it to do surface again and instead of you know what I'm saying but the crack develop so fastan six years I mean pretty fast I want I'm curious about asphalt instead so you never quite know the answer ahead of time but the the reconstruct versus a Mill and overlay is the same analysis as with the road it's like once that subsurface is corrupted right you get you've allowed too much water in there there will come a point where you can Mill and overlay all you want it you you're just going to get even a shorter life out of that Mill and overlay it R until it can't be really patched up anymore we actually got a quote for Academy Park 2 and also at this time they already recommended a re construct of that court because no way fire that person there is absolutely no way I I am so sorry but that is probably the nicest tennis court in the damn County whoever said that is full of it what did you say Stephan yeah um but I think that's because there were points compromised in that that we can't we didn't notice on the surface but it is wearing away so much on the edge that I wonder if there's water getting under that way and that's why they recommended it I'm not sure why I think the coating job on that was poor that's why they they they didn't clean this laab good enough before theying for Academy for Academy the quote that we got is sorry I'm doing the math in my head it's 30,000 for that Court a reconstruct they're totally full of it so 48 plus 30 would be both courts for 78,000 I hate and then we'd also get a discount of 5500 in this scenario and we haven't gone out for full quotes yet so this is just one but they're trying to bend us over on that I I don't we can't even entertain that offer yeah I and I would say this the biggest thing whatever you're the council wants to move things around to it's fine just that the longer you wait the more likely you are to be compelled to a reconstruct but I mean that's what we have budgeted now is a reconstruct right so I mean that's it but that would be the when you thinking about any of those paved or concrete surfaces the longer you wait the more likely you are we wanted to resurface versus reconstruct so because is that what we have budget is we just have a Recon resurface budgeted for Academy though right now right it doesn't even need that it doesn't need it there are some spots on well with the resurface we also were considering through the park board's recommendation to transition those courts to pickle ball courts so it would be twofold adding pickle ball courts and resurfacing the court instead of con reconstructing or constructing new pickle ball courts so it's not it doesn't need it yet they have the painted lines out there and they can put up the portable Nets when they want and it works fine yeah well so I mean how much longer do you think we can get by with I mean if we were to just patch those cracks and may not patch them with Hot Patch but I mean patch them with some kind of a sealant and yeah we can we can I mean we can just do that and you know the other thing to remember is is like however we might move these things around unless we're really moving something really far down down the road it's not going to change anything particularly grand and I'm probably stilling at least 390 either have money or down for 20 years once I get out here I'm not I'm not panicked about that I either but this is but that's the point is of having this is to be able to see that stuff coming so we can make little tweaks along the way that' be one reason I wouldn't recommend hey let's just drop from 390 down to 340 we make those problems bigger and move them forward in time would be the thing right so I think we still ride with 390 and see how this all plays out um because some of these prices are going to be too high and some are going to be too low and we'll we we'll find out through actual experience along the way but we do need to keep an eye on that that those negative numbers are going to start creeping into the end of the schedule and moving moving toward us I think we should uh try and extend those lives as long as we can and then when it comes to Matson park I think we should do a like a joint tennis and pickle ball and then use the park dedication funds for it because it's a new amenity so yeah and if we have th if it's talking about those kinds of tweaks and we think we have a consensus that 390 is probably the right number regardless of how we move forward just because of what the Horizon would look like we can make those tweaks along the way like it does that's not even something we would need to do ahead of the September meeting right if we if we're comfortable in the levy amount for this fund any of the tweaks that we do there after are just fine and it can still be the same as right like uh like I would tell Matt on you know oh you're scheduled for a trailer you you don't need your trailer well don't use your don't replace it then we'll schedule it next year we' do the same with these we' just keep keep sliding them back one more year one more year one more year one more and until we were like yep pull the trigger um but that way we're actually prepared for that kind of thing is there anything else there you have anything else on on that kind of stuff that you not off the top my head I can keep looking at stuff sorry I don't mean to pick on you Stephanie I just I just think that people are hurting for taxpayer money and then or for for taxes and their money and then we're doing things that I don't think fit um otherwise we've got some other items that we've kind of talked about in the past that kind of need to know if you guys want these things penciled in at least for now or not at all or or whatever um right we taled we talked briefly about a comp study do we want to have money in for a comp study or we just staff is just calling and asking for numbers or was 10 10,000 to do that right 10,000 yeah and the basic basic has our has our I want to know I guess have have we really changed that much in uh get because I mean one of the big things about that was the points assigned to each role on on the comp study which I think probably was more important than actually the dollar amount necessarily that was paid on the comp study it was the points assign of the rules so you could try to compare apples to apples yes that so yes um do we really if we haven't really changed our position that much on who's doing what do we really need a comp study to to get us new point values if they're going to be basically the same point values because really when it came to negotiating at the union negotiations it was more about comparables to North Branch and comparables to Cambridge and negotiated on it was useful to have the points to know kind of what you were trying to compare to but is that really going to change much if we'd spend was it 10 through 10,000 out of C 10 10,000 for this one but I well we R we did round up because we didn't get official quotes and go out and look at three different companies yeah um but we did ask them just to do an update based off our other one which means that our job descriptions don't need to be Rewritten and our points don't need to be reassigned so it's not looking at that it's doing more the comparable um of different wages I and I don't know I mean if you spend that 10,000 if that really helps you much in the negotiations you know what I mean because they're just gonna they're going to pull the highest comparables from whatever City they can find and then that's what you're going to have to negotiate against you know so and we're going to pull you know comparables that we can pull and I don't know no I I I think I think it's probably good to do it on a somewhat regular basis but you know what I'm saying I think you correctly identified the the number one value from the last comp study was exactly getting getting th those positions evaluate so you actually knew like public works here compared to Public Works anywhere else not quite the same like we have a very different structure for how we do that right um and so it was important to be able to sus that out and that was the primary value in that one for sure and those really and Chang we're not dramatically different now right we have not split anything off to go to a separate water department Sewer Department we haven't done any of those things so it just I just need to know and if we're comfortable just saying hey staff you guys are going to be asked to do this cool but yeah but I mean we do it anyway you know what I mean we which we did and I don't know if that was only because we we because things had changed so drastically and that year and a half or two years that yeah it was to update it because we had numbers done had we not had those numbers I think it would have been more difficult to just go and argue with them that they shouldn't have been higher um but I I do think it's to be competitive against all positions not just Union positions the non-union ones as well we don't have I mean depends on what department we don't have massive turnover but that's a great thing and we do want to retain the employees that we have so to be able to show them proof done by anyone internally biased because hard to argue against that then we say you are competitively being paid against I mean I think some of that comes from them just searching for a new job too I mean if they they say well boy I think I could make more money over at this city over here and they'd look I mean we're going to know I mean if if somebody comes to us and says hey you know I can make an extra five 10 grand a year over here at this job and I'm sorry I'm leaving mean we're not we're not going to raise our stuff that drastically into you know what I mean it's you have to want to work here at some point and you have you let the market speak yeah I mean you let the market kind of work on those positions so I don't know I don't think we need to spend it on this one on that one I guess I would lean more towards skipping at this time okay it sounds like it's not a bad thing to do everyone and I get what you're saying but I just yep um this all that one I have to go back um duct work cleaning at City Hall how much is that well we got one quote 3,000 bucks and we actually have an example of what is coming out of the vents over there on the wall when we took that stuff off it's I don't know we got 40 pounds out of the ICC I'm a little worried we might get more than that out of here I can't say prior to 10 years ago but it's never been done in the 10 years I've been here when when is that when is the reconstruct on the HVAC system scheduled for well there's just budgeted for it's just it's just furnaces like I don't anything beyond the furnace okay there's never no reconstruct on Duck work it's I there's nothing and I'm going to tell you right now you want to clean your duck work every three years if you have pets every year now like if May Gordon's house when they built his house if they if they Arrow sealed his Ducker he can't clean it for two years if they just masked it and caped it he can clean it right away but if it's Aeros seal you got to wait two years Aeros seal is basically running I I just describe it as elma's glue I house when they do it and it doesn't the smell doesn't bother me but I can feel my arms get tacky and uh but uh it's kind of what it is but it's very expensive and then duck cleaning they go by per opening and it's different in commercial applications you did you have an expected number for that no we just once we did the ICC just cuz you could kind of tell the there was just kind of a bit of an order right and then once we saw the amount of stuff that came out of those vents we was like oh my gosh all right we we can't be in that much better of a boat here then we remove that platform and now you can can see where it's been coming up against the wall it's kind of kind of remarkable I can tell that platform's gone now it's today because you're sitting like almost below the but that wall right that wall by that V I didn't know you were there so so there and I'm not saying we're going to spend three obviously that was just one random dude already in the budget what's that is it already in the budget the duck cleaning no and the comp plan wasn't in there yet either right or you did have the comp plan in there no no well there was a there was a guy that was at the chamber meeting that the one who did the it is the one okay damn and he was a nice guy and he did great work but we wouldn't just pick him anyway right well we did get other quotes and the next one up was thousands more than oh so we did get more I thought you said we only got one no we for that number of the community or for the city hall but when we did the community center work which was already done we did get multiple quotes and it was yeah he was by far the cheapest okay gotcha I mean to me that doesn't sound that expensive so that's why I was I was wonder if you were thinking well we have faith we have faith in him but I'm still not going to just take his oh right right right yeah yeah he name yeah I say do it okay everybody else anybody else yeah for every $3,000 we spend we got to take a $100,000 out though well I don't know if that would quite work no deal have you heard me say that before H have you heard me say that before okay tell all the department has they come and ask for something no I just say No Deal walk away your office what else you got I tell him to bring it from home what else you got for um I was hoping to get clarification on PD open house right we were going to do the National Night Out what was the final number I have notes of 12 to 2500 dollars or or uh 1,200 to 2500 like as the budget for that thing yeah how did you end I was looking for clarification on what you guys I think we said not to exceed 2500 or something 3,000 okay I but I still think it's not bad to wrong yeah I don't think so either I think that was running well spent that was awesome there was a lot of people there for that all right so two grand 2500 what's the number we want to spend on that you think two oh you want to do it you're saying you want to do it again next year that was my understanding from last meeting was that we were going to just make this a recurring thing for National Night Out right was fun insane turnout yeah what do you think two 20 25 say yeah okay deal inflation um well and you got room I we ran out but you're supposed to get donations sure and I think that's good um I also have on the list kind of in limbo is a traffic cming study I think Jason and Josie were going to talk to the county on the traffic calming study if the if the county the traffic calming study if the county was interested in that yes we did have a meeting uh with and they are potentially interested in basically you know discussing some options um nothing's gone through the County board but yeah there is um some movement there we've had a meeting on it we were going to see Jason thought that was about five and we were going to try to see if they would so yeah so if we're still serious about that I can budget 2 200 but you got to remember we're talking The Colony could be three years before I know well that might be the only thing we'll put some pressure on the only other thing I will say on this is the economist in me is not so sure that that's a super great incentive structure I do not the economist in me is not so sure this is a great incentive structure I'm a little worried that the county is going to start to look at us and say you know if we do bad enough Myan will totally pick up the tab and split this with us good point and I'm and I'm not saying that happens right out of the Shute but a person can learn a thing like that after enough years good point it is their because if if if their Public Works crew thinks that we're going to start handling everything out there I don't think the next time they go out to patch they're going to do their best I think they now suddenly realize they have an incentive to do slightly worse to ensure I'm just throwing that out there that's a side side note but I have it I had it written down so good point I think we should just direct all the complaints to the County Commissioners then and just have them pay for it it is their road that is money it's their Road and ultimately I it's the intersection of the road is yeah we are correctly splitting on that that is a well established deal like between cities and counties Statewide like that's that's always kind of the how that goes um but yeah I mean at some point the county commissioner is just got to say give the County Administrator a directive and just be like this will happen by this date done would that be traffic caling only in that area or would it be the whole the coridor between Heritage and 23 or the the curve no I think you were looking at us just the small looking at a relatively small section was my understanding from Jason this is not like a a mile long stretch of road you you you are looking at a specific that whole area a specific point and or a specific intersection when you're okay is my understanding um okay so do we we still want to just leave that in and find out if the county even we don't actually have affirm anything from them yet so all right and then we talked Let's see we got um we got body cameras we're gonna body cameras we're goingon to use um Public Safety money okay and then we talked to about shortening the life on those because it I have them listed as 10 but it's clearly isn't working out so um I got notes so you'll see that updated all right we already talked about that and I don't I don't remember was there a lease option on those body cams depending on what vendor you're with but yes the one we went with watch guard and I know but that worked with what we already had like the in car so we only went the body cameras and that was kind of a lease hybrid you know the fees we paid because at year three they replace them with whatever their new version is but you own them at year five so yeah does that make more sense because then we can plan we know that we're going to be set on body cams versus a we might in two years Motorola might decide those ones are shot and then we're on the hook again right and so we we can look at it going forward and we did the numbers the first time and this time we got a little bit of the numbers but I quit once we got into it as far as from one of the other big vendors that everything they do is on a per officer per annual per fee right that's their plan um but even just when we started getting looking at their numbers for body cam Squad cam all together it was exorbitantly more than what this project was because we could already use what we had but it is I mean for example nowadays I called taser to ask them what a new taser 10 costs well they told me they didn't really sell them you got to pay $2,000 per officer per year and then they'll give you a new one every three years so there's that's a lease only option yes Lease Only options General as a general rule I'm skeptical of leases um implicitly they anyone anyone running their business well should have charged you a premium to not receive money up front right so the least should get more expensive should um so I'm always a little bit skeptical that I'm you know like if I own a business selling furniture I can sell my furniture for less if I pay cash for all of it right and I would think the same approach here okay it just makes us as a general rule of thumb uh yeah I mean risk aversion kind of always kind of stuck on the whole planned obsolescence yeah because it's like if I want to try to PES are set up to be paid off in the first year year and a half two years Max so that product is paid off and then you're paying for the lease their property at that point right yeah sounds like a mortgage no it's super different um yeah I don't know that I don't know that I have any otheres again you know working documents so it's new information comes in I'll I'll tweak things and update the council as to to to what new information I get but um we're kind of going a low right now right I wouldn't normally expect to be um having any you know the big highlight will be health insurance but I'm not expecting that to like first week of October I think is rough timeline on that so so if there's anything else that Council would want to address yeah and then George we at 1055 now going shouldn't have left that was that was when you were here traffic cing 2500 duct work for 3,000 so I mean I think moving some of the park stuff back and pulling some of that stuff out I think we we could look at but like you said I mean you still you still want to that Levy at that certain amount one of the things that I I feel like it was maybe Ellen Duff recently had mentioned something about that there's and I and I did just a real brief Google search on this topic but is there a trend of uh the fund balance amount where people are starting to say boy that does that really make sense to hold that much because what are we at right now like 42 or 47 no we're we're above that are we above that yeah yeah we're yep we're yeah we you and I specifically looked at that not 54 I asked question of where where are we at currently 54 is what it is right now why was I thinking it was going to be lower than that at the it had been it had been okay work it way up y so the and and I don't know if there's a government Finance Officers Association or something is that even a group that's legit they have you know they have position papers on that and all that stuff they're talking about they're they're trying to split off you know government the the U general fund you know kind of the the fund balance versus uh more of a revenue fund I can't I don't remember what it was talking about but there was anyway the the is is there some push where they're saying you know maybe you really shouldn't have hold that much of your residents money you know what I mean and I know you've always said kind of in that what 40 to 70 range sort of is what you've said or I would I would cap it at 70 and you guys would hear from me by the time we hit 60 because at that point you have to be pumping the breaks already otherwise you're going to shoot clear past 70 before you even know you hit it yeah is there any money is there any money in this budget plan for there no none okay no contribution to fund balance that's planned now hopefully hopefully as staff we do a great job hopefully I was forecasting revenues conservatively and they come in a little high hopefully we do a great job not spending the entire amount that we were all budgeted and those come in a little lower and we get the gap which is generally true right I mean you you and I have gone through past year numbers that generally holds true but you know well last year we skipped that fund B balance contribution because we thought we were going to be selling that property for the 148 to special tool I think right yeah um which we didn't end up selling but it's still an asset so it's not like right it's not gone it's notet I I did our fund balance because after 2023 when you actually got everything all calculated and got it all in I mean our fund balance must have still continued to go up after the fact then right yeah it wasn't that long ago fund balance was in the low 40s yeah and and we've we've made a good I mean to be H you to pick up 15% is actually really tough it takes a certain set of circumstances be able to do that what' you say to pick up 15% on fund balance in just a few short years is really tough yeah right I mean that that is not tax rate going that's that's yeah while tax rate dropping a whole bunch that's a really tough thing my first thought when you say is oh there there's a push among Finance officers or anybody do who I'm just asking you more and I just heard that from alen Duff I think was who I heard and I would say this is one I think uh I I think most cities do a terrible job planning and my first thought when you say that is um I always think of Warren Buffett when uh um you know when the tide goes out you find out who's been swimming naked right it sounds it sounds cool right when the tide is up it sounds great yeah let's take our clothes off right but when the tide goes out you got a problem you you have to have I well but every I got everybody's attention though right when oh that's that's fine you know what if if if that's what it takes to get everybody to start listening to budget meetings I'm on board with that um but that's the thing right if we start saying all right we want to have fund balance go down down down someday you are going to need it and suddenly you are going to be the council that's swimming naked so today at the LMC meeting I do not recommend Richfield was basically begging for money because they haven't done any long-term planning on their state highways that go through their area and we don't ever want to be in a situation where we need money for something that the state mandates us to do and we don't have it because then you you have to bond for it and our fund balance keeps our bond rate better because we're we have less risk if we have more money in the bank so there's I think it's so multifaceted that I I think we need to keep there was there was a previous mayor ways back that gasket if we got close to 50% on the fund balance below 50% that same mayor dropped us way below 50% wonder who that was remember fund balance is is basically Insurance correct right and it's and the insurance is never for the people that were or the people that are it's for the the residents in the future y right and the the primary function of that insurance is to maintain a consistent tax rate right because if you if if suddenly Market values tank by 27% if they tank by 27% and we have 10% fund balance there is we don't have cash to do anything except just raise tax and at that moment it's not going to be a little bit it's going to end up being a lot a lot even if it is a little bit each homeowner because the property values have gone down it's going to feel like twice as bad right so and I'm not saying cut it down 10% or anything like that I mean I I'm just asking I was just asking the question is that are there conversations happening where there's people that that would say that maybe it shouldn't be that high you know what I mean was that was that did you ask that question because you were thinking the same thing or what were your thoughts on that was I think we're going to Skyrocket right past 70% because we're adding more cash to that savings account than most people realize we were at 42% last year and then we jumped at 54% was it just last year we were at 42 remember there's two thing two big events that occurred that changed this one we had the in fund loan with water and sewer forgiven right that changed fund balance a lot when we did away with that um the other thing that changed a lot was we had a dramatic cut in budgeted expenditures remember so fund balance is always looking at your next year's budgeted expenditure so if I really want fund balance to go through the roof without contributing anything all I have to do is lower next year's operating budget and not fund it and it will automatically look good until I get through that year right so we had a we had a pretty sharp drop the one year in in total operating expenditures in the general fund and it was those two events that moved us quickly in that path normally you normally you don't have opportunities like that yeah so it's just a percentage of the levy so this year say if we're GNA if our Levy is going to go up it's it's operating expenditures not Levy right so operating expenditures is going to I I get to also include against those operating expenditures LGA building revenues all those other things so you're generally looking at um you know operating revenue or operating expenses probably what are we at probably like 4.4 million or something like that so it's not even the levy it's it's more than that right but if we're spending less it looks like we have more Reserve in the bank basically just a percentage next year it's going to look worse next year you know yeah and you also don't necessarily want to look at like any reports I send out you know you don't necessarily want to be looking at like oh how much cash is in you know a particular bank account that's that's not actually going to reveal any information about the general fund right because if I start stacking cash in the sewer fund yeah bank account looks cool looks great but you could still have a general fund that's broke yeah and that's not good general fund is in the end is the obl obl obligatory back stop for everything I think we keep on the same direction as you've had with the fund balance I think it's important I think housing values are going to drop I mean there was a there was a condo that was sold for 190 and then in the last 6 months 127 it's the market is drastically dropping and nobody wants to nobody wants to admit it because then they get less less tax revenue but that that is that's the reality of the situation so that that's our cushion and it hopefully it's not a bad recession but that's our cushion to keep people from having to pay more taxes in a time where you don't want them to pay more ta I mean you want them to but yeah we're also with these interest rates going up we're also going to end up on the backside of a particular curve that you guys may or may not have noticed um market value adjustment on investments uh when interest rates are climbing can be really helpful it can show a lot of interest income but the value of that asset just goes like that it always ends up back where you started and so there are going to be years here last year and this year particular where it looks like we are crushing it on investment inome and we kind of are yep exactly yeah exactly you know so it's so we do have to consider that because there's going to be some inflationary benefit to fund balance based on that activity that will just automatically disappear and it will not matter what we did or did not do or what we think about it well it's just a it's just a part of the puzzle though it's just another one of those things I think about in my mind but you just got watched the November election and uh then interest rates will be affected by that but no I don't I don't I would not Bank on the interest rates staying this High yeah because I think that right now if you were gonna like if you look at uh you know the next quarterly report next monthly report You' look at where we're sitting at with interest income versus what we budgeted you'd be like we are crushing and we are sort of sort of except solidly half of that is market value adjustment which would be unadjusted as Securities mature but that's why it pays to have a fund balance and not have to issue debt because we'd be on the other side of it we be paying more to borrow money now we're making money off of that money so you're if we were issuing if we had came into a situation where we needed money we had to issue debt it cost us twice as much because you're not making interest on on the money you have and you're paying interest to borrow the money yeah I mean I've never said that we should cut it I just I'm just asking the question i' I've heard around 40% I thought usually around 4 around 40 right that's that's what I'm saying is that is is 54 necessary and you think we're going to shoot past 7 I think it's this year I think after this 2024 budget and it's audited in and in early 2025 I think we're going to be at 62% love that basically so right now we got two 2.3 million 2.4 million I love I love it I've got a council member making bets on this it's fantastic I think it's going to go down4 million of our residents money sitting in a savings you know sitting in this pool I mean is that too much I mean that's that's a question that you know should should that be back in their pockets or at least some of that back I mean let's just even say just to get the balance or the the uh tax rate to to zero if you said okay if you take out of that fund balance you take uh you know5 whatever it is now what is that I don't you know do that what percentage does that get you to I mean you're still at 50% or so what I would say is this is that the big difference and I think the reason a lot of people have trouble with that because I've heard this argument before right where well government's already got a bunch of my money you know they shouldn't have it it should be in my pocket the real difference in I think the reason people have a hard time with this is that you and I do not exist in perpetuity you and I have a finite timeline and I'm only going to earn a certain amount of money and then that's it I'm done right I I die um but city of isan's operating budget and capital Improvement plan will exist in perpetuity if that money goes back it will also come back again if it's going to have to come back it may as well at least serve as an insurance policy for future generations for future residents and provide some consistency I am also firmly of the mind that I think while I think business owners really do care about taxes I think the number one thing they want in taxes is is certainty something that they can plan on I think that's the the the first thing that they would like on that um so yeah if Council wants to go a different route on fund balance but that's I hope I'm super clear about what I think we should do on that me I'm just saying if you if you take the 1055 out of fund balance you're still going to be at 51.6% for your fund balance you know what I mean I'm tot I'm totally opposed to it myself I'm I'm okay with it but I mean I think we can look elsewhere first but I me I'm just and you think it's you think it'll and I mean typically what we do see is that we leave it at zero but we do still add from the previous year yeah because our department heads are operating efficiently but our expenditures go up every year too because we have more population so yeah I mean this year your your valuation is still going to go up 3.45% right so you're still more on that L it's not to be yeah what was you say Mike you know the tax rate down to roughly zero so roughly in line with that three and a half uh increase in the market value just a thought it's just something like I said I've been somebody had mentioned that to me and I mean you're still above 50% you're still almost 52% I mean you're not it's like you're draining it down to nothing yeah but and at $148,000 still hasn't been put in the bank I know we discussed it last year at the budget meeting and we thought that'd be a windfall extra for this year's this current Year's budget but it still hasn't been put in a bank it hasn't hasn't worked out and and maybe you had stepped out but I mean and I'm not going to lose sleep over that because that's still an asset no right it's not going to show up as as a you know it's not going to show up in a fund balance calculation but I do recognize I have an asset that you know if things things really hit the rails and we're really in a bind yes I can you know I can sell that for 70 grand instead of 148 just to gner cash right um so if we took 100,000 out and replaced it with that 148 we're ahead of the game because you're just basically said you're going to use that as an asset well and and unless the planning previously accounted for that right you know what I mean like if we thought we were going to get to a point a because of selling that asset and then we didn't then we never got to point a so now we need to recognize the the correct position that we're in and whether or not that still makes sense to be able to count on that again which have you changed that in in these numbers already you have right I don't believe he has still what do you mean well because you're not saying that we got the 148 in these numbers because you know we aren't going to get it right no I wouldn't have a place I wouldn't have a place I wouldn't put that right yeah we put zero we had zero as a number last year we just if we got yeah it was an understanding it doesn't fit as a capital item or or an operating right budget item that that's not quite how that works that's a balance sheet item that you you wouldn't normally put into yeah so we didn't actually say that 148 is going to go into fund balance last year we just said that if it comes then we'll use implicitly that's what would happen right because it's not budgeted to go back out the door when the money arrives it is implicitly a part of fund balance because it is not scheduled to leave is there any type of purchase agreement at all on that property right now going back that was in the consent agenda wasn't it oh the unlimited welding not at this time but I do have somebody interested in it so we don't have a purchase agreement yet but I'm not super worried about for the same price we haven't listed it yet so I don't know what price it has to go back to Eda first to set a price and then we'll see what happens it's negotiable always over the years we've had enough interest in all those Parcels I'm not super worried about being able to it's more about getting through the legal work of getting it ending the prior arrangement formally and I'm more worried about that timeline than actually being able to sell it um yeah otherwise you know you know we as we talk about all these items it Insurance renewals are still going to be a big deal and that might get you guys halfway to what you want or might move you 50% in the other direction I suppose is possible I don't think we're going to do that bad sadly but um we'd have to wait and see well I mean that that's the direct I'd like to be at zero for I mean I know that you know 2.6 is not a big deal and I know we can work our way down from there in the future but I mean I've always been one that I want to set that preliminary at what the goal is what and then we find a way to meet that goal you know but um that's what I would like to probably see at this point would just be a nice easy way to kind of gradually kind of I don't know just get to zero and then you know we can kind of see where the health insurance comes in we can see where you know see if we have some sale property and then we you know I don't know and I just like to be a zero I do want to clarify that sale of property we didn't we sold that parcel for a dollar just so like the you're talking about the one today yes special tools was the 148 this was y both of them though we sold for a dollar and we did a promisor note with a subsidy of the value of the land so they were just sold for a dollar so we're not giving special special tools they were going to buy it because they were out of time on their yeah sorry yeah you are correct and so they're not doing that no but you have another interested buyer right the fire five acre par so potentially you just never know what it'll all depend on what the Eda decides to sell it at I agree I think we should start at 0% well so then that actually brings to the next point do do we want to address preliminary Levy at the first meeting of September or do we want to push it to the second if if we're going to be at zero in on the first meeting in September then I'm fine with it if you think we need more time if we don't want to go that route to get to zero I mean and not even saying that that will be the route at the end but if we know that we can go that route to to be at zero you know then I'm fine doing at the first meeting but I'm a I'm a little RIS second I'm little risk averse on this I don't I'm worried insurance is going to be high that's why I said we should leave it at drop it to zero or even drop it 3% I just assume I'd rather set that preliminary higher bar I don't disagree with what you're doing but I disagree with the fact is I don't want to shoot ourselves in the foot and then have a problem when it comes too late I agree and if Mike thinks that's the best route in this case he knows the budget better than anybody so and he's always been pretty I've always been pretty advant about I'd rather set the bar up here and work to here than set the bar down here and then find out oh here it's I know what you guys are saying too I'm not I'm definitely not saying you guys are trying to waste money or you know I mean don't get that impression I mean I know we're all just trying to I just assum set the bar high and then we don't have to we can always drop from there we can't go up from that well I know but I mean I think that's that's part of what I like about setting the bar where you want it first is that it forces you reach the goal you know and not not saying that you know we may find other solutions that get us to where we need to get to without you know dipping into that slightly but let's not decide that tonight we should maybe wait till the next meeting maybe we'll have so what I just need to know is should I have materials prepared for the first meeting that give you guys what basically the prepared materials you need to be able to pass a preliminary Levy or do you guys want to have another presentation or just more time to think about it and I would prepare those materials for at the second I think if if everybody's going to be here the next meeting I think we need to set it then and be done with it and then we can go from there I agree okay otherwise we can do with this meeting after that you said if worst case we but I don't what happens if what happens if we don't have a quum yeah that's special special meeting or it gets set to what it was last has it ever happened ever I don't think so well I mean I'm not going to use excuses we can we can try next meeting but if we can't come to an agreement then we'll well then it just goes to the next meeting but yeah that's I mean you just run that risk it that strange set of circumstances and cities have had that kind of stuff happen it's few and far between but it is a thing that can happen I don't does anybody ever recall there being a city council meeting that there wasn't a quorum and when was the last time it happened well the example I give we had to wait a few minutes for somebody to get here one time I think but other than that but the wait to get a quarm that's pretty bad to get a qu yeah but PR matal BR it back at 0% and probably at least three of us will vote for that and I think we I'm about cutting I don't want to dip into savings I want to well yeah and I think but I'm just saying I mean if for right now if you just want to get it to a point where you can pass that prelim area zero is what we want to reach I think you know how we get there we can always figure that out all the way from now until December and we can get all but I just think that sets the goal to where we are trying to get to it's like like I said if we have to dip in I mean we're talking about changing from 54% to 51.6 you know on fund balance and it we but it forces us to get to the goal of zero and then we can work from there you know what I mean so all right so we we're looking at pres presentation materials that have a tax rate flat yeah right yeah I will yeah we'll we'll you'll see yeah you'll see that represented we'll have clean duct work in the city hall so that's a plus but I mean I think if the if the insurance numbers come back better then that's great you know I mean if you you know at what point do you know for 2024 well you won't know I guess until next year what you actually contribute to fund balance no I have I have a I pretty much always have a sense by the you know probably by like the third week in January I've probably done enough audit prep that I've got a pretty good sense of what I I suspect it will land but it's not a definitive thing until can we get the last can we get the last three years of what went in there after the audit and everything those numbers we looked at that last year I don't remember I'd like to see some Trend not just one year two well yeah we looked at a few years last year I don't remember what it was but it was pretty much just about every year that even though you didn't plan on it you got something so average of 200 and just that little short clip what was the last was the 61 and then zero you got I got glasses and I can't see any okay I see page 23 that's all I can read on I thought I see better look at at this one but I still can't read it all yeah and that's where we want to stay preferably I just think it's risky that's yeah did you did you budget for those years to get fund balance at the end or did you well you did right I thought it was what was that George you had I thought it was 150 that you were trying to get in there every year well last year I was advocating for a 150 contribution yeah okay um we yeah gosh what you're 20 I feel like you've advocated for 150 most years I I advoc I'm always advocating for that like I want to be fiscally conservative I don't want I don't ever want somebody living here 20 years from now to be like oh that bet tell you you know but um that could always happen I mean I know nobody knows most people don't have any idea who I am but I still I I don't I mean they don't necessarily have any idea who I am but I still presume that they care about whether or not I do my job well the way it's going I think by the time you leave you're going to have a statue out front of yourself best Finance director ever don't inflate his ego now actually I was gonna I was gonna make a comment about how much you would spend on that and I don't disappoint me $100 five bucks I was gonna say there you go be cheap I thought I thought you'd advocated almost every year for 150 so maybe you know you see that 209 240 but maybe it's only overshooting the 150 by 990,000 50,000 50,000 you know yeah so I mean but it's something is the point point I'm trying to make you know you're already at 54 but what if you just got lucky on insurances those years and this year it's unlucky because everything's going up well by the time he passed the final budget he already knows the insurance numbers well so you got to remember those is like if if if so right here million these years right if you only contribute 200,000 you're not going to get ahead right it's it's not you're you're eventually you're not going to keep up right I mean there are years where that will work and years where this won't work but you are going to get to a point where on four million right 10% is 400,000 right so I can maybe have 5% but if I have Market values going up and I have increased expenditures going up because I have to provide services for those people there's a real scenario where that's not necessarily keeping up it sure can especially if you're going to if we can hold the line on expenditures but I I we're all going to have a little bit of a different idea about the appropriate level of risk aversion how about that I mean I think it's clear we're all fiscal conservatives but there's still and I there's some value in being a risk averse too for sure but yeah okay so I I will bring materials um and with the eye of setting uh preliminary Levy at 0 per tax rate change right so the consensus right okay I suppose well if you're gonna get all voted then all right then then then you be like me you you get on board whether it was your idea or not right I just I hope nothing bag comes in um okay anything else that we need to address or discuss or anything else that I should be researching before next meeting or you cut I will actually try to dig into some stuff with you and there the other thing I just want to remind the council I bringing this up every time is I am super happy to spend a whole lot of time with anybody okay I'm I'm super happy to spend a whole lot of time with anybody so if anybody comes in the next week or two weeks or whatever and it's like this is the thing I need to talk about this is the thing I need to know about please please do do that Jeff and I spent a most of an entire day together so yeah it flew by too it does doesn't it it does it's when you're having fun I was about to order lunch well sailed right sailed right through that it already 2 o' out of lunch yeah I think it is fun it isun both it's the same thing if you tour public works or do a PD ride along it's interesting and you you want to keep you want to you know I learned something every time you spend time with the city staff learn something almost every time I do it y okay that's how we proceed all right any other business otherwise I'll look for a motion to adjourn and we can jump back into Committee of the whole motion to adjourn second I have a motion to adjourn from councilman Merill and a second from councilman hom all in favor say I I I'll oppose same sign that motion carries 5 Z we are adjourned --------- ##VIDEO ID:edhOC4v9cEU## for apparently they're over all right let's go ahead and call this meeting of the isan city council of the order if we can all rise for the Pledge of Allegiance please do want a roll call we have all council members present is there any public comment this evening otherwise I'll look for a motion to adopt the agenda unless we have any changes there mayor and Council we don't have any changes per say but I do want to make note of a last minute um addition to the agenda and that is K3 as a business item resolution considering the approval of volunteers and the collection dispersement of donations at illuminate Ian that was added today motion to approve with the change I have a motion to approve from councilman lundine and a second from councilman hren all in favor say I I all oppose same sign that motion carries 5- Z Let's see we have a proclamation here for international overdose awareness day which is August 31st of 201 24 and I'll just go ahead and read that Pro Proclamation here uh whereas International over overdose awareness day is recognized globally on August 31st to raise awareness about the risks of overdosing honor the individuals whose lives have been lost from overdosing and acknowledge the grief felt by families friends and other communities and whereas every human deserves our best efforts to prevent injury and death from overdose and it is imperative to support overdose prevention policies and projects and to help the wider community understand that drug overdose is a social issue which impacts the victim families friends and communities and whereas those will who those will be remembered with purple ribbons in downtown isan in the month of August and now therefore I James Gordon mayor of the city of isan do hereby Proclaim August 31st 2024 is overdose Awareness Day in the city of isan and call this observance to the attention of all of our citizens I don't know did they decorate uh yep my mom got out there I believe August 14th and she got most of them up she still has a few more to go tell thank you for doing that yep all right otherwise uh let's see we'll move on to G1 and G2 we have the August 7th 2024 city council meeting minutes and we have the August 7th 2024 City Council budget work session minutes motion to approve second I have a motion to approve those minutes from councilman lendine and a second from councilman hean all in favor say I I all oppose same sign that motion carries 5-0 for announcements we've got Park and wreck our board meeting on Tuesday August 27th at 6 p.m. city council meeting on Tuesday September 3rd at 7 p.m. and the Eda meeting Tuesday September 3rd immediately following the council meeting do we have any Council committee reports I have a few uh so school board and chamber meet later this week so I'll have updates at the next meeting uh today I had a little bit of a marathon on meetings I I went down to LMC starting at 9 this morning um if you don't know what LMC is basically it's a a committee meeting with all the representatives of most of the Cities from uh Minnesota um there's a a fair amount that show up I'd say probably 30 in person and maybe 40 online um so basically it's just like a sounding board for the state um today was a human resources committee meeting um the important discussion item uh today was on the uh earn sick and safe time uh mandate that the state basically threw on us um and that's a bit of a mess uh seemed like most of the HR departments are having a hard time understanding the language um it wasn't very well written and it was kind of forced through so they're looking at ways to uh recommend approval of that I asked today if I could submit a a recommend a recommendation for a policy to just ask them to get rid of it entirely um it's so poorly done that I I don't even know how I made it through in the first place um and then we talked also about some work comp stuff and uh per payouts which wasn't super exciting um for the economies meeting uh most of the meeting was um focused on housing and uh they call it I think middle housing market or whatever they call it um most most of the Cities want to do of course increase taxes and do government funding housing it seems like um I brought up an idea to possibly maybe look at some way instead of actually having the government make these things more complicated if there was some sort of option just to help people with their interest rates so help get the interest rates down because right now you're having a lot of um big conglomerate companies coming in and buying housing because people can't afford mortgages and then they're basically it's it's skyrocketing the price of rent um everybody deals with the the interest and uh so that was one thing that I brought up to the chair of that committee and they had never thought about it I'm hoping he maybe looks into something like that because you can actually keep it a little more simple by doing that than starting all these silly programs that they want to kind of force through uh and I know Jimmy you had a couple of the LMC meetings as well I didn't know if you had anything from those but I think they're um a pretty good use of our time um definitely going to do it every single year uh we should always have someone down there I've said that a few times and also Julie Blaha from the state auditor office was there um she said there's she's noticing a big shortage in public fin staff um has became it's made them become more lean um she wants to diminish the amount of audit work that the state does and to me that was a little bit scary because I think a lot of our residents are asking for more explanations on where the state money's going so uh keep that in mind when you vote um because it's important for us to have answers on where our money's going as taxpayers yeah I had one one meeting this week yesterday and I have another one tomorrow morning but um but not a ton of stuff there's a lot of things that they're promoting that we would probably disagree with as a council but that's one of the reasons that we're there is to to suggest changes and um I have another meeting tomorrow I forget what that one is about but uh I've got to look at look at that agenda there um but yeah yesterday I mean it was I think it was Service delivery one of the things was grants for box elder um or not box elder but Emerald Dash for um and uh which I think we've already kind of been aware of and I think we maybe even applied for some of that stuff already if I remember right or no or did we decide not to not to really handle much of that if it was mayor and Council from what I remember uh talking to some people um that if you're getting at treating the trees that in it's inevitable the tree is probably going to die yeah you can treat it but in it's it's eventually going to die right yeah so I don't know if we maybe we never did actually pursue grants or anything like that even to to deal with it I think we just said you know does yet no yeah was it grants for removal or just treatment uh I think they had all sorts of different different things I mean there was probably a half hour conversation about money that was available for those types of purposes so um so I'm not sure exactly you know exactly what's available but there's different organizations out there that I'm sure are promoting different things and so anyway just something that was kind of the highlight of that meeting otherwise it was pretty dull so but we do have a policy recommendation hopefully for the next meeting yeah we've got got a i there's a few things that probably could be could be recommended I got one coming too so there's it's important for us to do that and hopefully yeah I mean it's probably going to fall on De ears but um you know I mean that's there's no other way to change it other than trying so any other Council committee reports I had a BMX meeting um uh same stuff they're getting ready for races and uh they're boosting their uh their New Riders so that's good they're still the number one track in the country so yeah they're they're doing good staying busy all right we'll go ahead and move on to our first business item here we've got K1 the interview of Erica zadan for vacant Park and Recreation board seats so Erica if you want to come on up here and hi hey if you could just state your name and address for the record there and then we'll have some questions for you yep okay um my name Erica zadon and my residence just your address yeah 709 Bergman Court isan okay sounds good well yeah we'll just have some questions here for you and uh tell us about yourself and why the council should consider you for the Park and Recreation board seat um I've lived here for 20 plus years we have five children so we're active um in our community with those kids um I volunteer at the BMX track I am outside I probably visit four Parks I'd say on average a week and I'm a teacher I've run the PTO and I've also and the director of a nonprofit in isan do you have experience being a par a Park and Recreation board member or similar experience that would help you in this role um yes I was the wife of a parking board member for 10 years so I was his eyes and ears he came to the meeting and I told him what I thought what wife do I won't we won't tell him you said that oh he knows it it's okay no but um I'm familiar with grant writing I know how to run a budget I know how to stay on budget I know how to make great you know find funding for things when it's needed sounds good uh what do you feel is the most important role and the purpose of the Parks and Recreation board in our community uh to create an outdoor area that is available for all of our residents and what do you believe are the top priorities for the city's current Park system um the upkeep and safety of our current Parks do you have experience in Long Range planning please explain uh I I've run a nonprofit so there's long range planning there's goals there's fiveyear Outlook 10e Outlook um so yes all right the Park and Recreation board reviews and makes recommendations on the overall planning management and policies of our Park system for the city council how do you plan to tie that into the overall goals of the city council um basically just communicating making sure there's open communication between the park and rec board the community and the council okay if you could bring a new or enhanced feature event or service to our Park system what would that be a better skate park Stephanie's all on board with that my favorite uh the Park and Recreation board typically meets the fourth Tuesday of the month at 6m does this fit into your other time commitments besides next week yes I'm at BMX next week okay and is there anything else you would like to add to assist us in considering you as a parkboard candidate no all right awesome thank you Erica all right any discussion I am are we allowed to ask a question yeah sure I think so okay as long as it's the same for all the applicants and we only got one so I think we're okay uh what are your views on on larger amenities like um like the amphitheater illuminated San or splash pad or the BMX Arena what are what are your views on how those get developed you really want that yeah okay I don't like the ampli theater I wish we had a water park BMX is one of the greatest sports ever and it brings so much to this community it'd be ridiculous yeah it's fantastic um I don't remember what else like illuminate i s leave the fifth okay it's not good it's not bad I'm not a I'm not a Christmas light person so I'm probably not not the right one to ask if you want a positive review and I don't really care negative perfect thank you any other discussion all right anything else no okay anybody want to make a motion at all or I'll make a motion I'll second it so I have a motion from uh councilman hren and a second from myself all in favor say I I I'll oppose same sign that motion carries 5- Z thanks Erica all right moving on to K2 The Whisper Ridge Park survey results I just want to say first of all 100 one responses our community is dying to tell us things I think we could just I think we could just keep the park I think it's that's I wish we we need to do more of this Outreach we were always going to keep the park we were just going to clean it upse the park I want to be clear about we were not you're right we were never getting rid of the park we were just going to basically change it basically yeah but I think we could wait to change it probably until we have a a better solution for what it's going to go there and replace it so letter to residents went out on Friday July 26th um within 700 feet of Westbridge Park um or went out on July 24th sorry to inform them of the survey and the survey was available starting July 29th through August 9th for a total of 12 Days their survey was a total of four questions we wanted to keep it short and sweet otherwise people get bored um and included multiple choice yes or no in short answer the survey received 101 responses in the 12-day time period and Julia did want to be here but she had a family emergency to do this just in F quick question before we go into this how much money did it cost to do this for it's just a Google form that we use so okay and then mailings too the mailings I'm not I don't know off the top of my head sorry it it probably wasn't a lot of money though is what I'm getting at so I I would I would I've always been pushing from we need more surveys we need more data before we just think that we know what all our residents want because we don't so it probably took I want to say about a day to since we don't have a paper folder to fold and do all that of Julia's time um because it was it's a large Park and so it covers a large area of the city so just an FY on that but I'm not sure exactly what that number was she would know okay um so the first question was how often do you use or visit Whisper Ridge Park and the most selected option was one time per week with 36 responses um though never and I didn't know Whisper Ridge Park existed did equate to 44 of the responses so um question number two was if you utilize whisper rdge Park what amenity do you use the most and the most selected option was not with 41 responses and the second most selected option was the basketball court with 38 responses so definitely a lot of basketball court use at this park from our responses in general um would you be in favor of the city turning whisper Park back to Greens space due to the current poor condition of the amenities until a larger plan could be put in place for the future of the park and this is a yes or no and we had um was 56.4% of the responses so 57 responses and 44 responses said yes they would prefer it to be put back to green space I would like to add to that that I don't think the condition of it is really that poor we it's really not that bad I mean I would play on I've played on way worse than that for both tennis and basketball and the fences are nice so I I think the fences are in good shape the court is definitely in the tennis courts are the tennis we would consider in very poor condition there's large cracks I think we need to have we need to have a conversation about what we consider very poor condition because this is s not a Dina you know correct but there is we just do need to keep in consideration also that the cost goes up the longer we put it off so if we have to reconstruct a court it's way more expensive than resurfacing a court and every year because of inflation if we wait five years it's that much more expensive to re construct that court so there's things like that to conce to keep in mind as well um so there's we Julie and I went there and took pictures again which we did previously but um just to give a better idea we had her stand by the pictures we could see how a good gauge yeah that one that one crack isn't definitely isn't the best but the basketball courts actually not that bad the large there's a large cracks across both the basketball and Tennis Courts uneven uneven surfacing causing pooling so there's definite dips where water is held and it's basically eroded in CR in some of the areas um which is breaking down and um giving a pretty rundown appeal the fen has seemed actually in pretty good shape except for there's one area that I thought maybe could use a little bit of TLC um and there's not and like there's no places to really sit in the park which would be nice within that area for kids to sit and even when we visited Madson which could come up later people brought chairs with them and adding benches to these Parks further amenities would be something I think would help people want to use them more um the pathways on the north entrance are uneven and basically creating a hazard for anybody in um accessible like needing accessibility through the park like it's not probably easy for a wheelchair user to get to that Park um as well as throughout the park um there's a large amount of sand sediment found within the courts and fencing is not reaching the ground in some of the spots and that's on this side where the door is like it's up a little high so a ball could easily roll right under so that would need to be fixed and then across the entrance door it's just kind of hang in there and then we're just looking for your recommendation on how to proceed um This was um taken out of the CIP I believe in 2018 when the park did their overall Park plan originally and it was decided that they were not going to keep updating this um court for lack of use which is why we brought it Forward because that's what it dictated is what was the point of the condition of it not being worth upkeeping any longer and so that's why we're here now is because that's what the recommendation was Prior so and even out of the 101 responses which half of them almost half of them so they had no idea it was even there and then 50% is yes and 50% no basically still that's that's a very very very high response on I have never had so many people reach out to me about one specific thing as I did about this I at least at least a dozen emails or messages about it and the people in that neighborhood especially they say they they were shocked to even know that it was an option because kids play basketball there every single night every night in the no matter what basically so did you say something jie I may C I do want to add also um I do want to thank people for filling out the survey but also the number of people who sent emails to the general city email box um those were all in favor the ones that we received um but thank you for the public who took the time to send an email to me and uh let me know your thoughts what you think so that's in addition to the results that she had shared sure I I think maybe my recommendation is let's see what's going to cost to fill these cracks until we can you know we got another somebody else on the park and wreck board that's got some good ideas tell the book Park Board can I think we should first let's look at what cost the repairs to do and maybe in that equation is to look at maybe putting some seating out there for it I'm I'm not opposed to maintaining a park I'm just opposed to putting money into a park that isn't getting used I look at that that yes and no question answer for for in favor or not is pretty close I mean it's 50/50 as far as I'm concerned so yes people are spoken let's I think maybe that's what we had to do is we had to go forward to see what's going to at least get it to give us another year or two out of it before we have to really do something with the surface yeah I mean I think it's a nice space I think it's just people are the the park board was trying to come up with something better to do with the space than what it currently is and and I don't know I mean I think the basketball is obviously the big thing that's what they're using and then you know maybe we look at maybe doing something expand taking out of the tennis court area of it because that's obviously where the most work needs to be done and then maybe just address the basketball portion of it maybe that tennis ball tennis court area tur it into a pickle ball area I don't know well we had conversations about that too and there was some concern about the noise and then parking being an issue parking is an issue for that park there isn't a ton of parking um we did go there and parked ourselves and there's only a few spots and it's pretty far away and there's maybe we can look neighborhood paranging some of that to maybe have some more parking you know I I think we just need to well and I don't think I don't think we have the ability to get a driveway in there because that's part of he talked about too is that you could you could have more parking inside the area if you could get there yeah we can't get specifically on one side like it is the 10 feet of the path that the city has and so on the one side I think it's probably 12T we don't have a ton of space it's just enough for the paths to get to that section which is why long term that Park is much larger than just that area and so if we were able to put in boardwalks for instance is what it would require and what is in the park plan um that would be on the other side of the park over by First Avenue Northwest so that's a long road ahead um but so Jeff and I went and talked to the neighbors over there um and they said uh we asked about the pickle ball uh to at least one person they said it probably wouldn't bother them but the noise is something that we should consider if that's something we want to do so I think that we'd have to ask the immediate Neighbors about the noise um and then as far as the parking um they had said that it didn't really bother them um they just know their park there using the park like on the street so well like I said I think first and foremost we need to look at what's going to cost at least get it to a point where it's safe whatever I think we I we just send it back to the park board and let them come up with some ideas I think at this point the reason we're even talking about it is because the park board had recommended pulling everything out and just turning it into Green Space and so I think that's a good idea the parkboard has considered pickle ball numerous times for those who are interested because that was one of the things but because of the noise complaints it's just not a great Park for that considering the location of the house is so close and we do have other parks that don't have as much housing um for instance Madson where there's already noise to drown it out as well as Academy Park where we have the temporary line painted where there isn't any houses surrounding that so um really not recommended by the park board after we discussed that as well so and we did ask the the three or four neighbors we talked to and not a single one has seen a dog in there so I don't know where that information came from but that there's no way that's true Matt you said you guys got to clean that up a lot don't you yeah Public Works has had to clean the dog was out of that perk a number of times inside the fence inside the fence yep okay well the neighbors have never seen it well that doesn't mean they go out there in the middle night and maybe somebody's got their dog running loose and it goes in there so I mean that's just because they don't see him doesn't mean it's not happening all right well we're not going to take any action on it right now send it back to the park board and tell them to come up with a plan and uh thank you okay so moving on to K3 resolution considering the approval of volunteers and the collection and dispersement of donations at illuminate isan good evening again the council determined um that the 2024 illuminate ice anti event will be free of charge to attendees um and have determined the budget this year based off of um a previous conversation a couple months ago um and so for that budget we are not hiring paid contractors who then help with the getting volunteers groups to volunteer which would they would get um up to a $600 stien generally 500 to volunteer through that hired contractor and so um I know we had had a discussion previously about um allowing volunteer groups to collect donations at certain spaces throughout and we have allowed this in the past but I really wanted to have a clear direction from you guys as we're recruit recruiting volunteers or starting to do that and we just didn't know what exactly to tell them so I was like we have to go back to council to confirm what you guys wanted and so there's a few options that we see and you guys can think of other options obviously there's a million ways we could do this um but one would be to that the volunteer groups collect cash donations at their stations um and keep all of those cash donations and then we had discussed using QR codes for donations as well throughout the park and our new um software will allow us to do this um and so then those donations would go back just to the event another way we could do this is that all electric and electronic and cash donations would be combined and then a certain percentage of that would go back to that group that volunteered for that event that night which um could be great for them or great for us um and then um also we could consider just all of the donations electronic and cash just going to the event which isn't ideal but I wanted to give you all the options and then all donations cash and electronic go to the volunteer group of the evening which also is not what I recommend but um it's for you guys to to decide what you think would be the best route I know other lighting events do a 2575 split or a 5050 split on the night um for events like this because volunteer groups a lot of them are Community groups we do have some who give it back just to the event um as well they get they choose oh no we want our 50% to go back to the event we just like being here um and give that option to them always but um it is good for those youth groups who do volunteer and we've been really lucky with a lot of great volunteer groups who um really do help make our event possible so I I like the option two with maybe maybe a 5050 and see how it goes I like option two 50-50 I don't know I mean what do you see more more often 2575 and 25 when you say 2575 are you saying the group gets 25 the event gets 75 yep I think I I don't know I mean it doesn't have to be those either you could do 30 70 so just however you guys see it's just those are the ones that I've seen more you give them the more they're going to volunteer true what do you guys think I would like to see the event make some money at least get some of the money back but if you give them 50% they're going to work harder to get more donations because they get half of it too so if you cut it down I mean where is The Sweet Spot i' be in favor of 5050 it's important to these volunteer groups not only volunteer and give of their time but generally we see people who know them within the community come on the nights that they're volunteering so um just keeping that into consideration they it could possibly be in our favor to do 50 50 it could be in our favor to do 20 I can't give you the best answer but I think it could go either way George what do you think 4060 something like that 4 Mike what do you think what few things one I one I wonder if um donations shouldn't be just by by day but rather by the entire event um otherwise you may very well find that some volunteer groups find certain days to be very advantageous and other days less so um the other thing I'm thinking is um whether or not volunteer groups to receive donations should be required to proof um 501c3 status um without knowing ahead of time how much certain groups might Gather in donation if Falcon National Bank says yeah we're going to bring over six of our staff and they make $1,100 that night um I'm not 100% certain on the tax implications of that it might be that I need to issue them at 1099 for a city event that then went to a an entity that's not not yeah because it would be over 600 um in that scenario um but they're not a 501c3 but again it f so maybe so maybe the answer there is maybe cap it here's the split but we're you're done at $599 is that per person no it would be that would be by the entity I I like the idea of it all at the end and then distribute it because like you said some groups may do better than others yeah because you're going to have some nights that are less advantageous for a variety of reasons and you know you might have you know Girl Scouts go and they make 40 bucks and the next night the Boy Scouts go in they they rake in 700 well I mean I don't know that the Girl Scouts did any less or the Boy Scouts did anymore um so it might just be we collect all donations at the end and then say all right you're it's you know 50/50 uh on the daily average so volunteer groups that all committed the same number of hours and the same you know had the same commitment to the event are going to going to get the same benefit so the the volunteers are only going to be there Friday and Saturday night Satur yes so are we considering the entire event then or is it just the Friday Saturday night I think if it was if it was the entire month and you had like some Mondays and Tuesdays you know mean which is going to be open the entire month but you're not going to have volunteers on the slow days right so well what I'm thinking is is on on the days when you might have an event on the days when you're going to have volunteer groups there you you could have another competing event or you might have inclement weather right right now the people that stood in the rain and toughed it out actually got almost nothing and the people that showed up the next day when the weather was awesome just made Bank MH but at the same time you want promote that they're going to be there and that they and get them to promote the event too to where they're getting people to come if they have to share that with everybody in kind of a community pool is there less incentive for them to well I I think it provides them Insurance of a floor right it's easier to find it's easier to understand that there's a minimum value to their time um it certainly takes away a maximum value but would provide a minimum value which is probably the larger hurdle to get over initially to get people to volunteer and it's the businesses sometimes volunteer too and stuff to help out and sometimes we do get business volunteers but they're not um getting any donations from us right it's more advertising for them and just being part of the community so I would say volunteers that are a 501c3 or that are you know that type of a nonprofit organization some type of nonprofit you groups sure Community organizations and nonprofits with a 501c within the community but otherwise if there's donations that come in you know which I guess if you just wanted to split it the entire time then it would just be split amongst those groups that volunteer but I don't know what do you guys think I think it's a great opportunity for for different groups within the city and the community to to raise a little bit of money though too I think we should heed Mike's advice on this and do do the cap and then split it at the end amongst whoever volunteers oh the cap was more in with the idea of if you were paying if you were paying you wouldn't yeah if you're 501c3 you can just accept an donation and it's not a big deal it's when you're if like for example fed National Bank is not a 501c3 and they earn $1,200 one night okay I think the tax implications are that I have to say that this is the city's money originally and they received a donation now they have to get a$ 1099 and go through all of those Hoops that I don't know that are required otherwise we have never let a non Community or like a youth group or a 501c3 eligible group volunteer like and get donations from us in the past so just clarify that well so I guess the question sounds like we're kind of uh if we are going to split it you guys want to split 5050 or 2575 or 6040 or let's settle that question first I guess I think 50 you want to go 5050 75 25 60 40 you want the city to keep the 75 and you want the city to take the 60 or the 40 take the 60 okay George 6040 6040 okay I can get on with that so 6040 or so we're thinking with the city taking 60 and the the uh the nonprofit taking the 40 and then we want to split the the donations and stuff throughout the entire event amongst the nonprofits that volunteer or do we want to do you know each have their own individual night and what do you guys think I think it's fair to go split it for the whole week whole event can we make sure if we're accepting donations that they have some sort of script so that people know that they're not only donating to yes to both okay yep and um we'll post it on everything then once we have clear it'll be on their volunteer things when they sign up they'll have to sign something that says it so they're aware plus we'll put it on all of our advertising for recruiting volunteers plus we'll have it on our website okay so so I'd say 6040 and split it amongst the groups for the entire EV period of time and uh and then I would like to also address the minimum number of volunteers last year we required eight to be working um we don't have ticketing this time so I don't know if we still think we should have eight people out out there we will have fire pits still Santa Claus helpers as well as um popcorn and marshmallows so as long as they're donated which it looks like we're getting them so um just to keep that in mind it's nice they're going probably want to have at least eight if they're doing all that work with the donations too because that basically that's going to take the place of needing to collect tickets and then sell well it'll be probably donation boxes still yeah we'll have donation boxes at certain stations for cash and then we'll also have the QR codes throughout the event for people to do electronically so are was one of their goals are they supposed to promote that you donate I assume or are they just helping run the event we could have somebody promoting that you donate to if that's two of the jobs that you want out there I guess that's what I thought it was for yeah what do we need okay so we have um just volunteers that help with keeping the campfires lit everything picked up we have two people usually roaming around just making sure everything's everybody's following the rules and being respectful and having a good time and just keeping the place clean how many do you think we need I would say six to eight would be my recommendation okay SS good to me all right and you need actually us to vote on that or yeah so mayor and Council we will update the resolution to include the actions that were just discussed here um and to make sure that that's in there so a vote would be needed what did you say so a vote will be needed please all right so I'll just go ahead and make the motion then we're going to do a 60/40 split with the city taking the 60 and the volunteer groups taking the 40 uh we're going to split the amount for the entire event amongst the nonprofits only the nonprofits and we want a minimum of six volunteers I have a second perfect anybody want to second that I'll second I have a motion from myself and a second from councilman heeman all in favor say I I I'll oppose same sign that motion carries 5 and let's see consent agenda is next there if I can get a motion to approve that motion to approve second I have a motion to approve the consent agenda from councilman lundine and a second from councilman homr all in favor say I I all oppose same sign that motion carries 5 any other business motion to adjourn second I have a motion to adjourn from councilman lundine and a second from councilman Merill all in favor say I I I'll oppose same sign that motion carries 5 Z we are adjourned and we'll jump into our budget Workshop session meeting here in just a minute