##VIDEO ID:5Gqi58eQk2E## e e e e e e e e e e we're going to call this meeting into order please Marne would you call the role council member Steve fredman here council member Deb Gillis here council member Don Horton here vice mayor Sharon Mahoney here and mayor buddy Pender here we have a quorum all right all right I've asked uh Harold if he would uh lead us in the pledge I pledge alance to the flag of the United States of America and to the for it stands one nation God indivisible for all I I forgot to say Dr Harold all right let's have a quick prayer and then we're going to get rolling here Lord we thank you for this awesome day that you have made today let us rejoice and be glad in it and uh just bless all that are here those that are watching by TV all the families bless this new Council let us work together in unison and uh we just ask uh a blessing over this night and ask it all in your name amen all right so uh The Honorable shair uh judge Sharon Hamilton how are you doing I'm good you ready this morning I think are we going to yeah I guess we're doing that individually yep what it says all right you can go ahead and stay you want to stay seated okay all right please raise your right hand for me and repeat after me I I state your name say your name I knew I knew I knew somebody was going to do that Shar Mone Shar Mahoney do solemnly swear do solemnly swear that I will support protect and defend that I will support protect and defend the Constitution the Constitution and government of the United States and government of the United stat and of the State of Florida of the State of Florida and that I am duly qualified and that I duly qualified to hold office to hold office under the Constitution under the constitution of the State of the State and that I will and that I will in all respects in all respect ects observe the provisions observe the provisions of the charter and ordinances of the charter and ordinances of Isa marada of marada Village of islands Village of islands and that I will well and Faithfully perform and that I will I will I am that I will well and Faithfully perform the duties of councilwoman the duties of councilwoman on which I am now about to enter on which I am now about to enter so help me God so help me God congratulations you already have your right hand raised please repeat after me I Don Horton Don Horton I thought I'd do it that way since do solemnly swear do solemnly swear that I will support protect and defend that I will support protect and defend the Constitution the Constitution and government of the United States and government of the United States and of the State of Florida and of the State of Florida and that I am duy qualified and that I am duly qualified to hold office to hold office under the constitution of the State under under the constitution of the state and that I will in all respects and that I will in all respects observe the provisions of the charter observe the provisions of the charter and ordinances of Isam marada and ordinances of Isam marada Village of Island village of Island and that I will well and Faithfully perform and that I will well and Faithfully perform the duties of councilmen the duties of councilmen on which I am now about to enter on which I am about to enter so help me God so help me God congratulations sir raise your right hand for me please sir I buddy Pender buddy Pender do solemnly swear do solemnly swear that I will support protect and defend that I will support uh protect and defend the Constitution Constitution and government of the United States government of the United States and of the State of Florida and the State of Florida and that I am duly qualified I am duy qualified to hold office to hold office under the Constitution under the constitution of the State of the State and that I will in all respects and that I that I will in all respect observe the provisions of the charter observe the provisions of the charter and ordinances of Isam marada ordinances of Isam marada Village of vience Village of Island and that I will well and Faithfully perform that I will well and safely perform I will well and Faithfully perform Faithfully okay the duties of councilmen duties of counsilman on which I am now about to enter on which I am now about to enter so help me God so help me God congratulations sir good to see you please raise your right hand for me I Deb Gillis I Deb Gillis do solemnly swear do solemnly swear that I will support protect and defend that I will support protect and defend the Constitution the Constitution and the government of the United States and the government of the United States and of the State of Florida and of the State of Florida and that I am duly qualified and that I am duly qualified to hold office under the Constitution to hold office under office under the constitution of the State of the State and that I will in all respects and I will in all respects observe the provisions observe the provisions of the charter and ordinances of the charter and ordinances of Isa marada of Isa marada Village of islands Village of islands and that I will well and Faithfully perform that I will well and Faithfully perform the duties of councilwoman the duties of councilwoman on on which I am now about to enter on on which I am now about to enter so help me God so help me God congratulations thank you raise your right hand for me please I you want to Captain Steve fredman I Steve fredman do solemnly swear do solemnly swear that I will support protect and defend that I will support protect and defend the Constitution the Constitution and government of the United States and government of the United States and of the State of Florida and of the State of Florida and that I am duly qualified and that I am duly qualified to hold office under the Constitution to hold office under the constitution of the State of the State and that I will in all respects and that I will in all respects observe the provisions observe the provisions of the charter and ordinances of the charter and ordinances of is marada of is marada Village of islands Village of Island and that I will well and Faithfully perform and that I will well and Faithfully perform the duties of councilmen the duties of councilmen on which I am now about to enter on which I am now about to enter so help me God so help me God congratulations congratulations to you all judge Hamilton thank you very much my pleasure thank you okay so we're going to move on to uh requests for deletions and emergency additions and I believe the only one so far that I've heard unless anybody else on Council is Carolyn Whitman needs to be moved up uh which I was told we'll move her up right before the the F dot uh presentation Council okay with that okay all right so that's done you have something I want to pull I want to pull tab 10 I think it's the thing about freebie okay Tab 10 is it 10 I think it's uh tab nine the resolution approving Amendment f.u Transit service development I stand corrected thank you pull it from the consent agenda okay okay tab nine okay that's Sharon Don you have something you'd like to U no sir I'm good add or I'm good thank you okay Deb no no Steve okay all right so we have Carolyn then Whiteman and tab n Shar that you want it okay all right so we're going to move on uh so now we are uh to the election of Mayor and uh vice mayor and John you're going to I'll turn it over to you to read something and then we can move forward when you're through yeah thank you mayor and members of The Village Council um you know welcome to the uh the three new of you I know I know U three new members welcome back to the the two remaining uh I know we welcomed you all at the um orientation uh but now I would like to officially welcome you since you've been sworn in and uh it's good to get good to get to work with you all um the next step is uh the election of the mayor and vice mayor Under The Village Charter it requires at this meeting that the council elects amongst themselves a mayor and a vice mayor to serve at the pleasure of the council for a term of one year um I'm going to go over the the manner in which we'll do it and then that way we can we can move forward with the with the uh nominations and election pursuant to current law I recommend that the council use the following Parliament procedure for the election of vice mayor uh election of Mayor and vice mayor namely that the prior mayor will act as the chair for purposes of the elections of Mayor and vice mayor the clerk will first call for nominations from the floor for any council member uh to serve as mayor the council May then nominate individuals uh until such time as nominations are exhausted at which time then the clerk will close the nominations for the position of the mayor when nominations for mayor are closed the clerk will start at either end of the de and call for a vote on the nominations which have been made um in other words if there's two three however many names uh uh Marne will start at one end of the de and you will state um who you who you would vote for um uh amongst those nominations the mayor must be elected by a majority with a minimum of three votes if a majority vote is not obtained for mayor in the first round uh then we will drop the lowest vote getter and the clerk will start the process again but this time starting on the other end of the day and we'll call for the votes um in that order this process will be repeated until such time as a mayor is elected and again The Village Charter requires that a mayor be elected today once the mayor has been elected the clerk will then call for nominations from the floor for any council member to serve as vice mayor and the process will move forward for the election of the vice mayor in the same manner it it proceeded as mayor once the vice mayor is elected uh the the reorganization ation will be complete and the newly elected mayor becomes the priding off presiding officer of the assembly and may then preside o preside over the remainder of the meeting if there is a change in who is elected to serve as mayor and vice mayor then the individuals will also switch seats in accordance with our council meeting procedures uh that concludes the instructions for the election of Mayor and vice mayor okay uh Council does anybody have any questions for Mr Quick no okay mayor first and then we wait for vice May corre correct yeah we'll do mayor we'll go through the whole process once that's been settled uh then we will do that process all over again but for vice mayor okay but we sitting up here can make a nomination if we want to nominate somebody or is this you're tell I heard you reading that marne's no the five of you this is this is for the five of you to decide we have no input in that nobody this okay I just want to make sure cuz it was a little confusing to me you know sorry about that yeah so the five of you will when when Marne opens it up the five of you will will make nominations I nominate so and so as mayor Marne will make sure to to write down and we'll have the list of who's been nominated once the nominations close then she will start at one end of the day work her way through um and then eventually we will get to a a majority decision okay all right so is she we just wait for Marney to open it up nominations are open okay I would like to just say one thing I'd like to say thank I'd like to thank the residents of alamada and and the previous councils that I've been able to be the mayor for uh three years out of my four-year term and I've also been on the Florida League of mayor's Board of Directors for three years all right my seat goes until 25 but I just want to say I'm I'm very blessed by the residents and the Council of the people that I worked with and our staff and at this time I uh would' like to nominate Sharon Mahoney for the mayor that's wonder do you need a second on that John no this will just yeah don't don't need seconds it'll just be a nomination and then um uh and then we'll there'll be a vote if there's uh um amongst who whoever the nominees are okay anybody else and if there's no other nominees we we won't need to go through the process of of voting obviously somebody we I thought we should vote anyway you don't you need it you can yeah I mean that would be fine if you guys yeah you can we can we can do it that's call the vote she's called the vote so marne's going to call the vote okay councilman fredman yes council member Gillis yes council member Horton yes um vice mayor Mahoney yes what are you saying nah nah and mayor buddy Pender yes okay that motion passes you're welcome so are we open for vice mayor now yes nominations are open for the vice mayor okay I'd like to uh nominate Don Horton for uh vice mayor would you call the role Marney if we there are no other nominations I will call the role mayor Mahoney oh wow uh [Laughter] yes uh council member Horton yes council member Pender yes council member Gillis yes and council member fredman yes that motion passes [Applause] yeah so yeah yeah so we should probably take a quick five minute break so you all can rearrange the the seats um if you're under our procedures the mayor sits in the middle and the uh vice mayor sits to the immediate left of the the mayor so Don will be where buddy is and Sharon will go where devb is and then and get arm russle for it yeah all right so sharing goes where buddy is we're going to take we're going to take a 5 minute recess e e e e e e e e [Music] first smack my first smack all right calling the meeting back to order and I want to say to everybody thank you very much and I hope I don't let anybody down I'm looking greatly into the future here with some really good people I'm sitting up here with so thank you very much and if I do anything wrong just tell me I'm learning okay so moving right along I think we have our first presentation with Miss Carolyn would you like to come up please well I'm very honored because I get to be the very first member of the uh Community to speak and to welcome all of our new Council and also to our mayor so um thank you very much I'm representing the parks and rack committee and I just wanted to do the report on where we are and what's happened so we met on October 23rd here with our committee and we've been continuing the ongoing discussions about the master plan which is of obviously a major consideration with Founders and in uh in doing that we asked for several presentations one of them was done by Pete frza and what we asked was what are the village properties that because the The Village the the update the master plan as we understand it is only designed for the actual confines of Founders Park and that is a question that I think might be of consideration as to whether any of the other properties in the village might be considered because for example one of the reasons we asked Pete was to find out what village properties do we have and what he went through was the ones that were the conservation Parks which obviously could not be used for anything and that's just part of the discussion about where does do things from Public Works maybe get moved to and so that was a reason for that conversation we also spoke um had a presentation from Lisa Watts who was the docm and she was responding to some of the questions about the areas around the periphery of Founders Park which it's not clear to the public when we come in that there actually are kind of two areas so there's the park and then there's also some of the areas around where the boats are that actually are are actually under the sort of domain of the marina so we had that presentation for conversations about boat storage and that sort of thing and so that's an ongoing question and conversation um Maria and the park staff discussed with us the park fee schedules and the possibilities of doing some revising of those they've been in place for a number of years and there's some adjustments that may be made on those um one of our students here M hugus um from the community gave an eagle scout proposal to create a bike repair station and so I think that is under discussion with uh perhaps with Village on how that might work and I don't know if there's anything to add about that and then we wanted to um make sure you know that the Breakwater project is now almost complete so that's part of excuse me events that have gone on we we had trunk Retreat we had a beats on the bay last week and we have another one coming up in December we on the 12th of November we had a workshop relating to the master plan and this I think will be an ongoing conversation they say that there's going to be a questionnaire that's going to go out to the Village um one of the things that I was at the workshop and one of the things that I noticed was they seem to have given questions about what is the one thing in the park that you like or you don't like and I look at this park and I go wait a minute there's not a one thing it's like you know which sport do you like or which thing do you like so hopefully the questionnaire will be more broadly based so that people's input will respond to more than just a single thing we have Holiday Fest coming up our next committee meeting meeting is scheduled for Wednesday the 22nd of January unless there's something else special and we like to be able to celebrate some of the things that go on around here in the park so I'm very proud to say that our swim team has just come back from the state championships and I think it's important to put that into perspective because if you think about the State of Florida this is the basically the D1 the division one um competition of the um around the state there are only three public schools in the state of Florida that compete at this level all the rest of them are private schools who have the opportunity to have even more focus on swimming so we had five students that competed and um competing in the state is like a major deal um Lane Smith who's a junior um made the finals in two individual events and and then our freestyle relay finished fifth and 16th respectively in the the 200 medle relay and the 200 freestyle relay and that was Lane Smith Abby sergeant alra algra fukao and uh Sophia figuro those are sophomores and juniors one senior Abby Sergeant is a senior um and so that was our competitors and then we also had our dive program and um one of our divers what in a minute I got to make sure I got the right name Aaron lyans um competed in the diving and he placed 13th in the state um with uh with our coach here so um I think it's something we can be really proud of they are doing their Awards dinner tonight otherwise we wanted to have the opportunity to have them presented to the Village um so on their behalf I am I am doing that um coach Kelly Owens is the dive instructor uh coach John Olen is the swim instructor and of course we have ongoing swim programs going on all through the year so I think it's something we can all be proud of you may just go to the pool and think you're swimming but you're actually around some really high um highly skilled and great coaches and swimmers so that's my report are there any questions or updates thank you very much thank you and congratulations to those kids that's great exactly well we may bring them um at a future event just because I think it's great um in addition to that we didn't ever really celebrate the fact that our Synchro group that was competing this summer actually competed in a national event in and went to Oregon and we haven't been able to connect the right dates for that too so I just think it's great for us to know those programs so very much thank you thank you thank you next I believe Mr Cole oh he's creeping up on me com okay um then Robie are you going to announce the u f do coming up are they supposed to come up and speak Yes actually fot is here to uh present to the Village Council and Community uh concerning a proposal for potentially up to three crosswalks on US1 they would be uh pedestrian activated and signalized so they have a presentation they prepared to educate everyone about the proposal and to gather some initial feedback um we don't need to make a decision on this tonight uh but to the extent that uh Council has uh informational needs they're certainly here to to uh rise to that challenge and and help you out okay thank thank you good evening Madame mayor uh Mr vice mayor and Council congratulations to all I guess I'm the second person to to address you that way so congratulations my name is Ramon Sierra I'm with the Florida Department of Transportation and um I'd like to first of all thank you for allowing me to come and present to you um about uh this uh study okay so bear with me as I get familiar with all right TR now very good excellent so before I start with my presentation I like to um share with you this slide to give you a little bit of background that you already know and this is the uniqueness of uh Isa marada the uniqueness of the community and the uniqueness of uh Overseas Highway it's the major highway but also it is the major Street downtown Street for the for the um for for the village so it's some interesting and and uh unique uh uh characteristics about the roadway um it there areal impacts uh there is uh the uh you know a push for uh making the community walkable because it's the the Main Street the downtown Street and it it's a mixed uh use vision for for the village but at the same time it's also the major thorough fair so it's important that traffic flows all right and those are um you know require some balancing of uh of safety and Mobility for all the modes of transportation what I left for last time it's at the top of my slide is that I'm here to seek uh your feedback right it's important that Partners talk to each other and that's basically what I'm doing and at the center of the slide is uh fdot's compass and basically these are the guiding principles that that we use to guide our decisions and Community is at the center of that of of that Compass so again I'm here for that dialogue and uh your feedback all right so I'd like to tell you a little bit about how everything started and where we're going next if anywhere right so everything started with a citizen request uh some uh few months ago and made a general request for more crosswalks uh within the limits of uh of the village and typically we follow up on all Citizen and uh request and we do some you know we do some study we look further into the request so we started with a visibility study we focused on three locations that I'm going to share with you in the next few slides and as I said earlier uh my reason for him be being here today is to request your feedback uh to help us decide whether we move forward or not right now we are at the study uh stage so none of these crosswalks are funded for construction or anything like that and depending on the feedback that we get from you also from uh from Sheriff Ramsey this is important into the decision making and deciding whether we move forward with all three one none okay so there are three areas um and just for easy of uh reference uh for um you know better reference we I named them location 1 to 3 so the southernmost section is location one which is at the the bottom of the the slide and I'm going to go into more detail into each every one of those the next location to the north is by the post office and uh the last location to the north is the main entrance to Founders Park where we are all right so locations one and two the southern two most locations are there are a lot of similarity in those locations the road looks pretty much the same throughout um but uh this is around mile marker 82 it's a 950 ft long segment more or less uh so there are two lanes of traffic in each Direction and a center lane for making turns the posted limit the posted speed limit is 45 mph and as you can see or maybe not because the labels are are are small but there are um what we call generators and pedestrian generators and receptors and basically all that means is where people are and where people want to go so there are hotels resorts on one side of the street and on the other side of the street there are also restaurants and shops on both side of the street so there might be um you know this might be one possible location where there some of that pedestrian activity it might make sense to uh build a crosswalk the next uh location is by the post office this is some uh a shorter section it's around mile marker 82.7 again the same type of roadway for for Lanes two lanes in each Direction with a center lane for turns 45 mil hour and again the same set set of setup the same setup where you know you have Resorts restaurants and there might be a make sense to have that uh pedestrian activity and and a you know and a crosswalk to accommodate that pedestrian activity all right so the why here why these two locations I think I've I've uh explained to you already basically the where people are where people want to go uh we looked at pedestrian crashes historic crashes there are some um crashes that involve pedestrians um there are some pedestrian activity not at every s you know not at a specific location but there's some pedestrians Crossing um and uh there's not nearby uh crosswalks in the area and and um there's no pedestrian refuge in the median uh also so that's another reason uh why we think this would be it would make sense and the volume of traffic which is definitely more than 200 uh Vehicles 2000 I'm sorry 2,000 my apologies all right so the two locations again uh the West leg of Madera Road um an intersection at Overseas Highway and approximately the next one approximately 230 ft east of the Leon Avenue intersection and there are two possible type of traffic control uh devices that we that we have at our disposal both of these devices have a red indication and I have uh next slide oh hopefully there that's it so just to give you a point of reference what these two uh devices would look like at the top at the top um of the slide is The Pedestrian High with Beacon we have one at mile marker 100 I'm pretty sure everybody's familiar with that um uh has a right indication this device stays dark when there's no pedestrian um activity and if somebody needs to cross pushes the button and activates the red indication and the next one is a typical pedestrian signal we have a sample here SL on the bottom of the slide at mile marker 104.6 and this one is a typical uh s traffic signal with a red uh yellow and green indication our preference would be to go with the signal if we were to move forward and the reason is that drivers are more familiar with a traffic you know with a traffic signal and not a with a pedestrian hyri Beacon we had some mixed results with that device one of them being confusion on the part of the driver all right so this is an engineering drawing and um basically the only thing that I want to show you and I want to point out for you here is that all the um infrastructure that we that that that we would need to build the the the crosswalk is within the fdot right away um we don't need to go into uh side streets or anything like that everything contained from RightWay to RightWay and this one is the one by the post office again very much same same setup this would be like a what we call a mast arm which is a signal with a with the signal indication heads over uh IND uh traffic indications overhead over the road all right the last location is at Founders Park that the main entrance to Founders Park this is by the Sheriff's Office and fire station and the reason why this is a little bit different the road is similar as the two previous locations the there is the residential community on the bottom of this uh slide and of course the park on the top side of this photo right so there's you know again the the the need here or you know it would make sense to connect the community with the the residential Community with the park and what's not going to bore you with the why here but I I think I've explained it in in previous uh in the previous uh two locations but I want to bring your attention to the engineering drawing and this would not just be the uh signal indication uh across uh Overseas Highway alone but we would also have to signalize the entrance to the park and uh the the the other uh um side of the intersection on Old Highway okay so this would be it would look TI as a four-way intersection also another thing that I want to bring your attention to is that it would need some improvements beyond the fdot right away this would be beyond the you know the the the jurisdiction of fdot so it would mean that uh um The Village would have to participate by building some pedestrian accommodations along all highway um some pavement markings uh the one of the signals uh would have to be installed on the uh uh Old Highway side so again this this is not just do but it it would involve uh collaboration between our two agencies all right and I think that's the three locations that I wanted to present you with I want to thank you for your attention and as I said the the the the the the project now is just at the study uh stage before we move forward or if we move forward you know your your feedback will be welcome and that's why I'm here Council does anybody have a question I do if I can go ahead thank you uh Ramon I had a a couple of questions actually you you started off by saying that this was generated by a a citizen request yes was that one 2 10 how many requests did the do get from this for this specific one one one request yes okay and uh um when was the study done what days was the study done on what day of the week what day of the week yeah so typically in the you know we we typically do midday right I mean midweek so we do uh uh Tuesday Wednesday Thursday the keys again there's you know this is also weekends so we did some of our observation over the weekend as well so you mean time of the year yeah during the peak of the season did you do it in the middle in the peak in the spring in the spring yes sir in the spring and again not just um weekdays but also weekends all right thank you I think I'd just like to hear from the sheriff if we could sometime down here does anybody else have a question on the council yeah I Steve what other um options are there for the the lights should that happen yeah so given the the post speed limit and the the the the configuration of the roadway the two lanes in each Direction with with a without a race median we have to have a red indication so the two samples that I show you the pedestrian hybrid hybrid beacon beacon similar to the one at Mal marker 100 or a typical you know traditional signal those would be the only two available only two so only two available available for this type of roadway so in other words an un signalized crosswalk would not be would not be uh a possibility would either one of those also include um uh audio yeah these typically for these type of signals we have like audible pedestrian signals that means that you know you push the button and it it'll tell you wait wait wait it'll have like verbal indications for The Pedestrian to wait until the the the walk indication comes on is that did I answer your question so I don't know how the oh she had her hand okay go ahead so the the one that you're referencing at at one 104.6 that's the one at the school correct yes ma'am okay um I also would like to know on the your drawing that says location to the post office yes it refers to four lanes existing with a divided in between I don't think there's four lanes there there is a there isn't four lanes there no so it's it's just like the other ones it's with a center it's on yourart yeah so four meaning two in each Direction with a center lane for turns we don't have two in each we don't have two in each Direction at that intersection okay we only have one in each Direction at that intersection I don't know how much that affects what what we're looking at but there's only one in each Direction it it really doesn't what it affects the decision for the type of traffic control is the post speed limit which is 45 mph and um the volume of traffic okay did you do did the you pick these three basic locations uh because of the citizens recommendation or thoughts or did you take in other considerations like maybe in front of worldwide and um Mara Bay so what we tried to do was you know before we started the uh you know we did some office work looking at trying to to look for areas where that would generate pedestrian activity so we Tred to look for areas where there is hotels for example restaurants right so people staying overnight and wanting to cross back and forth um so land uses we also looked at the police reports so areas where there was some crashes in the past okay does that mean that you didn't look at uh the area south of number one sou no that's that's that's the southernmost uh section that we looked at you didn't look at the amount of people or what's going on in front of what we know is worldwide no but again that's that's that's one one uh piece of feedback that I would take back with me and then I'm take that back of course please um in addition um personally I don't see many Crossing in front of the post office and and and wondered if that was chosen partially because of the fact that it was a federal post office no no no so again if if if um I don't know if the but from from the memory there's the the post office I I just use that as a point of reference I know so there is a CV there's um there's a CVS there's a CVS and there's a store there sandal Factory exactly so again and there are some uh some hotels too if or Resort shorts rentals vacation rentals on the old road well on the old road but they're they're on the old road they're not so that was the the idea was try to foresee if you're staying at a hotel and you need to go to CVS that was the idea so the post office I only used it for a a point of reference that's all okay well I guess what I'm saying is that I don't see as much of a need there as other places although I'm not sure I'm and I appreciate board and I know we're not going to make this decision this evening that we're going to work on this yet yes right yes and again I appreciate that feedback that's that's the reason I'm here part part of the reason which is where I'm very torn part of the reason uh I'm not sure that I want any of them is that all of these will slow our traffic now that doesn't mean that I'm not concerned about people crossing the road and the safety of that but they we only have the two lanes with the center lane understood so we need to figure out all of that uh in relationship to these if um I'm not saying I would but if I had to choose I'd put one in front of worldwide and one in front of what I'll call the lur life the the one that you have at Blackwood and and Madera I know agre I said if I had to choose if you had to uh but I'm not sure I'm on board with all of this yet so I appreciate your feedback um let me see if if you want to go somebody oh um all of them all of the signals that you have would have red lights correct right yeah yes okay so without a red light there we couldn't have a crosswalk well that's not the way kilargo started that's why I'm involved in in saying this is that is not the way kilargo started and we had a heavy discussion about that Council woman that's the reason I'm here before you trying to got to have an actual stop red light we've learned from the past we've learned from the past okay all right I'll let somebody else go maybe I'll think somebody go ahead buddy all right so I I just I'm a little concerned that you only have one person and we have you know over 6,000 residents in Alam marada and your your I know F Do's thing is the maintenance of traffic of moving traffic yes and to go from a four lane to a two lane and here in Alam marada and we think we have issues uh when we have the nautical flea market but this going to be ongoing it's going to slow traffic way down it's going to cause major you know backups continuously so I I seriously think we need to think about this because it's you know it's going to it's really going to cause the sheriff and Highway Patrol the Florida FHP a lot of issues that you know from constant and some people don't see those things the one in key Argo man they're moving you know so anyhow I think it's a little bit more studying longer feasibility studies or so again there are possible different options here if that you know I understand that you're not making a decision today or anything like that I understand that but if if the council feels that hey this not a good idea right do is going to take that very seriously together with the sheriff's uh position as well so sure thank you again that's wait I had one more comment go I'm everybody else go ahead go ahead okay um the one at Founders part once again we're going to take all this into consideration but I at least want to make the comment it just seems very odd to me that we would put that at our secondary entrance not at our main entrance I appreciate that feedback I understand because that's where fire goes out of and you know rescue that's where our fire department runs out of so that that could be a consideration as to why but they could um I think it's mistaken I I'm not sure it's so that was part of the consideration as well but again that's that's why I'm here I'm taking some I wrote World worldwide well I I don't know if if we're calling it a pedestrian walkway and we took the main consideration is that we have a fire station there then it's not because of The Pedestrian Crossing it's because we need one for the fire station there's two different subjects you're right I again I hear your I I hear your um okay hear you loud and clear thank you is everybody done anybody else for now okay thank you very much thank you good night Sheriff had something yes I know okay okay we're going to open general public comment but Sheriff Ramsey is going to come up first Madame mayor vice mayor council members first off congratulations council members staff you know uh I think in life we should focus on problems that exist and not try to fix problems that don't exist and when we try to fix problem that doesn't exist we create problems the number one complaint the sheriff's office gets is always traffic probably number one complaint the city of Alamar gets is traffic what are you going to do to make traffic go better why is it stopped how can we make it move this road is already above the service capacity we've exceeded the ability for this road to flow traffic on a normal day I think by putting in crosswalks which I don't don't think data shows there's a need we need to have a true need and data and facts to support that need one resident saying I want crosswalks in alamada I don't think is a need if we had a need I think you would know about it but data I've checked the last three years of our sheriff's office at these three locations to see what we've had for crashes injuries Vehicles versus pedestrians and the last threeyear data we show no crashes at these locations we did have one vehicle versus pedestrian several years ago just south of here or just North I'm sorry but that was Mr weisberger the young man who had killed his brother who jumped in front of a truck on an apparent suicide attempt it was not traffic related to Traffic everyone thinks traffic crosswalks are the best thing ever and I have not been a big fan of traffic and crosswalks for most of the time I do think we have a need for those at times but everybody wants a traffic light in front of their street you put these in everyone's going to want the crosswalk in front of their business you're looking at having massed arms across this highway which it won't be aesthetically pleasing you will congest traffic slow traffic crosswalks cause crashes they don't reduce them the chief of police in Key West I spoke to them today they hate hate these crosswalks what they found in the crosswalks that are north of Roosevelt Boulevard is a mass increase in crashes at these locations vehicle versus pedestrians injuries and several fatalities that took place in the crosswalks that are now in Key West which they did not know were coming in showed up and they hate them if you've been in Key West you've seen them they flash yellow you're supposed to stop on yellow then it flashes in red when you're supposed to be able to start going through it very confusing crosswalks tend to give citizens a false sense of security doesn't always exist we talked about the korgo one at the hunter Mar marker we all saw in the paper when that was there crash after crash Vehicles sliding through the um intersections people getting hit car crashes tying up police fire rescue backlogs of traffic if there was a true Public Safety need I'd be the first person saying let's do it but I think the contrary crosswalks are going to be more problemsome for police fire rescue congest to traffic make issues worse I don't think there's a safety issue here that we're trying to fix we put a couple in look we've got 10 miles of congested traffic people aren't going to walk necessarily 100 yards to cross to come back 100 yards I'm not convinced that we've heard anything tonight which says we need a crosswalk there we've heard might make sense well might make sense it might not make sense but I tell you I don't think it makes sense I don't think that there's any facts here to support it you know we're working so hard now to keep traffic flowing you know the sheriff's office has worked closely with ways act to stop directing traffic on the old road we think that's been effective we're waiting to see what happens during season how much better that's made we know whenever we do have a major event like the nautical flea market who's out there the sheriff's office we do two controlled traffic points to cross people a crosswalk won't change that I still have to have team members out there when you have big events going out there to cross people in packs so anytime we do have events we have our team members out there to focus on this and try to make sure it's safe and secure and that will continue no matter what you know we got the school across the street but I've got a school resource officer if we need to cross the kids for an event or anything else SRO is out there doing manual traffic control so again I think um the can't Wag the Dog one person saying I think we need crosswalks shouldn't dictate crosswalks unless data facts support show it and you believe it if you don't believe it when in doubt do nothing as a matter of public safety the law enforcement Sheriff's Office opposes these crosswalks because there's no data to support them the adverse impact will be negative for the commuters the traffic the flow the congestion and as as result I do believe that crosswalks are more dangerous to the general public and you asked the chief of Key West Police and the data will show support that people are getting wiped out crashes are occurring resources are being tied up traffic's being tied up because the crosswalks which everybody thinks they're safe I'm not convinced they are so any questions that be available if not I appreciate you letting me spend a couple minutes with you no thank you very much but I will tell you if you look at the picture you can see the front of my building by the post office been there 27 years no one crosses that street there there's no reason to I mean it's there is a problem going in the post office but it's a vehicle problem not a pedestrian problem I mean I I if I have to go to CVS I get in my vehicle and I drive there because I'm not Crossing us one I wouldn't walk across there so I agree with you I thank you very much and I think we're all pretty much on the same page that we don't see this as something that is urgent or much needed so thank you very much thank you madam mayor counc shiff thank you thank you thank you thank you Sheriff thank you Sheriff okay now we're going to open up general public comment Marne hey first up we have van Caden head than you want a line a line for you good evening Council I'm van Cadenhead um on October the 10th we had a u meeting here and decided with last Council that we wanted to ask the the county and the state for 104 rogo permits and straight out of the box with this first uh he's don't want to talk about that that this is an agenda item van I don't think you can talk about it now am I correct U yeah if you want to talk about that it it'll be when item I think it's 13 or think it's 13 as well you can well I was if if you would allow me you know without trying to cut me off I'm not cutting okay well I'm I'm just trying to tie this into what just went down with the traffic because uh uh the traffic is the is the problem the discussion that we had um was obviously not going to be helpful to the traffic flow I agree 100% with the sheriff and with most most of what everybody said uh up on the on the DI it's just a bad idea it doesn't have any any form for us but the last thing we need is more people and more traffic and and uh tab 14 which we'll get to and I intend to speak on Tab 14 also but uh I don't think it's uh relevant to to this uh discussion to be talking about uh increasing the number of of building permits in Isa marada uh because of the you know cough if you want to brother but I'm still here you know you know I mean man I've had a cold I'm sorry okay yeah that's true and and I just I just took a a minut so okay I'm not coughing for you okay um the the amount of of traffic that we have already is overwhelming this uh whoever the person was that recommended crosswalks uh was responding to that overwhelming over 2,000 uh trips a day uh in front of the post office on two lanes and uh the fdot also has plans to make it five Lanes with the two turn Lanes uh down both sides of the uh of the road so uh the the increase that of infrastructure that it's going to take the in increase of traffic the increase of people on top of what we already have is just ludicrous it's ridiculous and and and and to to add to it in any way you know and and I'm I'm not just talking about rogo permit I'm talking about uh uh TDC you know I mean we we've we've been over advertised we've been overloved by the world and we have entirely too many people uh crowded into this restricted geographic location so anything that we can do to alleviate that is good thank you very much thank you very much Marne he next up is Joe wishm it's joish me Plantation key Madame mayor and Council I would like to take this time to welcome all of our new council members you all have a lot of decisions to make that are going to affect all of us for the next Generations I have sat here and heard all kinds of stories from council members on how things used to be when they were growing up fishing was excellent reefs were healthy traffic was manageable all of these things have changed and if you all reflect on your own memories you will have to do you will have to admit this as well we developed a comp plan and a rogo system to ensure that there would not be overdevelopment we have reached our buildout but we still asked for more and more rogo permits now that the village has hired a firm to redo the comp plan and the ldrs I suggest that the right thing to do is to put a moratorium on any and all development projects until that review is completed you have taken an oath to protect our community and Mission and for those that remember the mission is to protect the resident's right to quiet enjoyment of Life plan for and plan for enhancing our village character to pre to preserve our community its people natural resources and also to provide basic public services to support our quality of life before you make any decisions I encourage you to remember our mission and also refer to the mission statement which is hanging up on the wall behind you our future is in your hands so don't let us down as a reminder there are more residents living in the village than developers lastly I remember that a lot of you in your campaign promises urged more public and Community involvement I sincerely hope that you meant that and it promotes a lot more unity and less dysfunction among council members as well as community members I see be our by our turnout here tonight there's excitement amongst our new Council and we hope that we can continue this as well so please let us do our part to help you do your part thank you thank you morning next up is Harold doson I'll pass the sheriff said everything I need to say okay thank you I have no one else signed up nobody on Zoom no ma'am okay so public comment is now closed I believe next is Mayor counsel communication is that right anything I don't have anything anybody Don Steve no okay I have one comment mayor of council communication I am very thankful and grateful to the public to voting me into office office thank you that's nice I just like to say that uh buddy served us well for three years and I very appreciative of the leadership you brought buddy and and uh your mayorship so thank you very much for what you've done thank you okay all right so then we'll move to Village attorney Village manager Communications yeah I just have one and it's um related to a u executive session it's just something I need to read under the statute to Florida statute section 28611 subsection 8A governing public meetings I as the attorney for Isam Mar Village of islands wish to advise The Village during this public meeting that I desire advice concerning the litigation for Mary uh of Mary L barley at all versus ISA marata Village of island in the United States district court in and for the southern district of Florida case number four col 24- cv-1000 38- kmm I ask that we hold an executive session on December 10th 202 4 at 400 p.m. uh attending the session would be the mayor council members Village manager myself John quick special councel Eric stetton and possibly special counsel Brian sadik and bla udis so you're saying December before our meeting immediately before the meeting at come on in an hour and a half early exactly is everybody I can bake cookies oh I'm going to hold you to that are we doing it in here or we doing it at where um uh I'll work with the yeah work we'll work with the manager in terms of the exact location we'll get a notice will get out um and so we can confirm the exact location whether it's here or at Village Hall okay anybody have anything are we good Mr Cole I just want to congratulate our Council on your election and also to Mayor Mahoney and vice mayor Don thank you so much for uh your service to the community we're looking forward to working with all of you thank you thank you everybody okay so we're moving on to the consent agenda yes uh we're into the consent portion of the agenda these items are of a routine nature and council members have reviewed these items in advance and sought the advice of Staff as they felt necessary there'll be one vote on the consent items uh which today are items uh tabs 3 through 8 uh if you call one tab Tad nine has been uh pulled from consent already if anyone would like to pull an item from consent he or she should state so now I'd like to pull tab five what is tab five okay right you want to discuss itated to Canal 132 I just have a legal question so okay so he just wants a discussion yeah so we'll pull it from consent and uh and we'll call it under resolution okay five and N five and so so we're going to uh on the consent we'll have three and four and six through eight correct yes you ready for a motion okay does anybody have anything to say do I have a motion motion oh yeah got public comment first sorry I'm learning any public comment on the consent agenda yes ma'am uh Lan bushin I think it's it's part of the consent agenda so if you want to speak to it you would do so now yes yeah it's part of consent so yeah now would be the time to speak on it okay I'm Lan bushin and I'm here tonight um about my personal property and um a little confusing to me um uh it's just to decide on a uh a special counsel to judge over a an appeal that I'm having and I wanted to ask the council well it's confusing because it in the code it says that the council decides but then this resolution says that the manager decides but um so that's all going to happen but what I want to ask tonight is that that matter gets stayed because there are two appeals and the second appeal is dependent I mean the first appeal is dependent on the second appeal so I'm looking at this and seeing that it's quite you know expensive uh to appoint a a hearing officer at this stage to appoint a hearing officer on the uh part of my appeal that is about offence denial permit um it's out of order of things so the other appeal is I'm appealing the fire department they're ordering me to make a fire Access Lane out of my property so that has to happen first so that's what so you're asking to get to stay the appeal that would have to be go go ahead I think I can once she's done speaking I think I can shed some light on it briefly that's basically what I have to say I mean unless I unless I'm have the opportunity to explain something of the situation tonight that's basically the function right now um I me you got a minute left if you would like to use it you can does the council have any question for me that to help you understand what I'm okay I mean I would say that we're not getting that the substance of your appeal is not being heard today it's just the hiring of a hearing officer under the that's required under the code right anybody have anything no John you want to explain yeah um M bushin has filed two appeals one of them is an appeal of a fence permit um and then another one is uh challenging a uh establishment of a fire Access Road those are two sep separate processes that have two two different procedural um uh uh paths that they need to travel though the the appeal of the fence permit Under The Village code any appeal of that goes to a hearing officer and the village is required to retain a hearing officer to to over oversee that um and that's what's actually in front of the the council tonight is just retaining a hearing officer as we're required to do Under the code the fire access road is a separate procedure that that is ultimately decided on by the council um Miss bushin had raised before about wanting to stay the fence per permit appeal pending the uh fire Access Road uh appeal I told her that that that's something she could pursue once the hearing officer is appointed because ultimately it's hearing officer's jurisdiction to decide whether to do that uh uh you know it's probably a good idea because the fire access permit appeal really would be determinative but procedurally that needs to be presented to the hearing officer and and we can deal with that when when we get there so all we're really doing is approving hiring somebody yes which we're required to do Under the code that's not going to change anything right okay yeah we we have to hire a hearing officer out of the code require you understand that yes but I'm concerned about the timing of it um Jennifer how long is the timing to hire this this person so she knows I mean this resolution approves the hearing officer today it would get signed um in terms of the timing of the appeal again these are these are items we can work out with the scheduling um I I mentioned this to miss bushin before we can work this out um we don't it's not something we need to do today I mean it's it's not coming back in in December I mean we can we can address this and work out the scheduling so it's a mutually convenient time for everyone okay I didn't realize this was a costly Venture for the um the hearing officer to be appointed and I don't want you know to waste everybody's time in hiring him and then I think have it be ineffective and I understand I was say he bills hourly so if it stayed there really won't be much of an expense honestly if if I understand that we need to have one on call anyway okay we don't have one and we need one to have a a reference that's correct yeah this would this so this this was um triggered by Miss bushland's appeal when we looked into it we realized that the village had never retained anybody under the code so this it but this is not only applicable to M bushland's appeal so if anyone else appeals a building official decision we will have a hearing under hearing officer under uh um retainer we won't need to come back and And Delay things and bring it back before the council we can just proceed under the code okay everybody got it and again I buddy just told me we're not I guess we're not supposed to have back and forth during consent agenda or during public comment yeah so all right go ahead mayor um I guess at this point we just would on a consent agenda move to approve yes items three we got to make sure public I'm I'm sorry anybody else have any public comment double checking Zoom give me one moment no there's no announcement okay so to be consent agenda for three 3 4 67 and eight correct correct do I have a motion I make a motion to approve and I Deb seconded call oral Marty please council member Pender yes council member Gillis yes council member Friedman yes vice mayor Horton yes and mayor Mahoney yes the motion passes 5 to zero okay so I guess that brings us to tab five tab five and tab five is a resolution of the Village Council of is mar Village of violence Florida approving work authorization number 18 with wsp USA environment and infrastructure Inc for Canal 132 restoration project construction engineering Inspection Services authorizing Village officials to implement the terms and conditions of the project agreement authorizing Village manager to expend budgeted funds authorize a village manager to execute work authorization number 18 and providing for an effective date okay Steve I guess ask your question my question is just really to Mr Quick and all transparency I live in that uh neighborhood I'm on the board of that HOA don't know if it's necessary for me to recuse myself on that particular item I'm I'm happy to hear what you have to say um how big is the neighborhood in the HOA I mean it's 100 people something like that um I don't think you're obligated to under this these circumstances but you can if you feel that there's an appearance um you certainly can uh but I don't think you're you are as I understand it you are obligated to um given given the nature of what's being proposed and uh and uh and the number of people impacted okay okay very good I'll stand so John does that even though he just you answered his question do we vote on that now yeah you would you would open up public comment if there's any public comment on Tab five and then you can can move forward on any public comment on Tab five no ma'am okay so uh do I hear a motion I make a motion to approve I'll second Marney council member Gillis yes council member Pender yes yes council member fredman yes vice mayor Horton yes and mayor Mahoney yes motion passes 5 to zero okay next is tab nine yes it's a resolution of the Village Council of Al Mar Village of violence Florida approving an amendment to Grant agreement G2 m67 between the Florida Department of Transportation and Isam Mara Village of Island to provide reimbursement funding for public transportation development through expansion of the freebie program authorizing Village manager to execute the amendment authorizing Village officials to implement the terms and conditions of the amendment authorizing Village manager to expend budgeted funds and providing an effective date okay well I guess I'll start since I pulled it um does uh I've been working with this freebie thing for over a year and a half and um I had a discussion with Richard Clark yesterday actually and um I don't believe we have any business in the transportation field at all I think it should be turned over to to Mr Clark um in fact he's doing the whole County he's been very successful uh down in Key West with his I think it's called con connect and I spoke to him this afternoon and what I would like to do is have the council vote right now he is ready to take the alamada over January 1st so can we uh does anybody have anything to say about this would you like to turn it over to Mr Clark and not do tab nine at all because we need out of Transportation so just to clarify well does anybody have anything any comments Deb oh I I do um I do I'm not sure that we can physically get that done this time and I don't want to yes we can I don't believe that we can physically get that done at this time okay and so um I would like to have that discussion going forward and and we can set that up but I don't want to I don't want to miss out on any grant money that we potentially could have I don't want to miss out on any grant money and by approving this I don't think that we would and at any time we can move it into the county well first of all I don't know why you don't think it can get done because he guaranteed me today he will have it done and he's ready for January the 1st I think there has to be uh local agreement of some sort he they're ready to go so anyhow I don't know how how does everybody else feel what I'd like to do is just I I kind of agree with Sharon I know Mr Clark is a great guy I know a lot of his uh former uh friends and co-workers that are in St John's County uh in Jacksonville and he's very highly liked he's he's uh very successful in what he's doing but I think I don't know maybe if Council I mean I don't know would we have time if we did it on the meeting of the 10th can we let John and themc so maybe somebody needs more information uh mayor what do you mean maybe they need more information I mean I didn't sure go ahead Rob um I've been in contact with Richard as well and he hadn't told me yet that he was planning on going for January 1st our plan has continued to be exactly that to transition over to the county um with this grant often times and I didn't have the opportunity before this meeting to reach out to fot and ask them but oftentimes there's some very tight time constraints associated with us reviewing and approving the uh the the grant uh agreement and it's my understanding that uh in speaking with Richard that if we did approve the grant agreement that we'd be a able to amend that and transfer over to the county without creating a problem uh my concern would be is if we don't act on this Grant application or Grant agreement now I'm not sure if we have enough time to Circle back after the December meeting I I would have taken time to you know reach out to them and ask ahead of tonight's meeting if I known this issue was coming up but my last conversation with Richard was only about a week ago and uh it was on a separate subject it was on the uh Snake Creek Bridge but he had told me at that point that he was about to have his plan ready to present to me and that's my last point of contact about a week ago okay well let me word it this way how about if we approve this grant but if we can vote on giving this to him however he needs to do with January 1st because he told me you guys have talked there's been some problems and uh as far as I'm concerned there's no reason why we can't go January the 1 I mean go ahead we staff haven't had any problems with Richard I know I meant problems that seems to just keep going on and on and I've been trying to do this for a year and a half take this burden off the taxpayers here and so that is my reasoning because we you know this will come off the taxpayers so I Steve raise your hand I have a question too go ahead go ahead Steve I just the clarification you say him you mean to the county yes to the count well he's he's the head of it he runs it so yes go ahead so if we transation this over um somehow I think that there's still going to be a charge to the village and I would like more information about that so I I would prefer not to vote tonight on that I would like to vote on the grant just so it continues forward and we don't miss this extends this grant to 2026 we can talk about turning it over at the very next meeting but to vote on it tonight I don't think is fair can we keep kicking down the road Don do you want to say something well I'm just I got I had a question because it sounds like you've done your homework on this and I if we if we don't approve this then we're we're not u sounds like we're not going to be able to even get take advantage of the grant that's that's that's here in front of us would would Richard need part of this grant money in order to do part of the program and if we did approve the grant funding would if we worked out something with Richard which would be wonderful um would he be able to take advantage of the grant funding he has different all kinds of different opportunities because it's a going to be a bigger area he'll be servicing and again I guess my concern was when I read this and it said 2026 I'm thinking man come on but this the way I with freebie for 2026 this is just an approval to get some money some grant funding not not tie our hands with freebie or tie our hands with with with the count it seems that the the the communication with Monroe County has just been dragged out and I don't he doesn't see a reason why we can't move forward and I don't either so if you guys need to talk to I I agree Shar I age I agree doing I know Mr Cole's going to jump out of his chair go ahead well a little bit because if the county is representing that in any way Isa marada has slowed this down that would be not okay because on his end of the equation is where the the drag on the timeline has been and but we've been working collaboratively with one another and again at last conversation he told me he needed to give me a plan to and schedule him to come speak to council so a lot changed since that conversation a week ago and I again I wish he had reached out to talk to me so that we wouldn't be having a a conversation right now with so many questions but um I think the grant being till 2026 was actually a good thing because originally it wasn't supposed to extend to 2026 so we ended up getting additional potential uh funding through fot to support the program which is not to say that we are planning to run it until 2026 to the contrary I keep reaching out to Richard saying when can we get this done and uh he's been asking for a little bit more time um so that having been said um having Richard come and having everyone in the same place at the same time so we can get that that really nailed down to a firm schedule and make the transition I'm all for it okay so can we maybe get him here in December and still shoot for maybe them taking over the first of the year please what I what would you like to do I'd like to move out of transportation for the village and move to the county handling it cuz you know when I'd like to see January no but just that we're headed in that direction was what I was looking for because this just seems you know how long we've been doing this like Sharon I excuse me I'm sorry I didn't mean to cut you off um it's not that I don't want to move forward I just want to make sure that we have the time to get the right thing done all this does is keeps the Grant in place for us until weekend and you bring you bring Richard back on the the 10th whatever the December date is can I do that I once again I'm not sure that from the 10th to the 31st we can get done but maybe we can get done by February 1 well just as long like I said this has just been going on and on and on it's not that I'm opposed to giving it up it's not okay so are we agree that at least we can move in that direction just to transition because you know he is ready to go and uh you know I mean we need to not be sticking our nose and stuff that you know it makes more sense to give it to the county it just does is is Mayor is this time certain to the can we can we postpone this to the December 10th meeting and and we be okay and and it not harm anything or is that I I don't know the answer approve the grant just because and then and but still it's transition is that is that agreeable to everybody I like that yeah we got to have a public comment okay does anybody have a public comment thank you sure yes Joe wishm okay I liked it yes Joe wishm Plantation key my only concern is I I know when the freebie program started it seemed like a great thing and it was a freebie now it's gone up to to $2 which you know I think that if if a lot of the tourists are going to use that why should the taxpayers burden you know have the uh the burden of that I'm just concerned if it goes to the count what if they want to raise it to $10 or $15 or something like that would we have any control over that or that would be my only concern thank you okay thank you and iow to comment back anybody else yes we have a speaker on Zoom okay Mark go ahead you've got three minutes hello I just wanted to kind of leave it out there um any kind of Grants you get I'm all for the City taking advantage of just um keep in mind the length of time with Tesla's Robo taxi there are people that are interested in providing uh taxi service with the Tesla Robo taxis in the area so um what kind of you know just keep keep your options open for what's available out there in the future and just going to leave it out there that there are people who want to help provide this this service uh in the future that's all thank you anybody else John can I just make a reminder to the public if um you can state your name and address um when you're coming to the podium please thank you okay yeah close public comment or resum yes sorry or the virtual Podium going to close public comment and I guess we'll go ahead and move to approve with um scheduling Richard to come and look towards transitioning over to the county if you're making that motion I'm seconding thank you we good Marne call the rooll please okay um mayor Mahoney yes council member Gillis yes council member fredman yes vice mayor Haron yes and council member Pender yes motion passes 5 to zero Tab 10 is a resolution of the Village Council of Al Mar Village of violence Florida approving a Professional Services agreement between icon Technology Group and Isam Mara Village violence for fiscal year 2024 to 2025 authorizing Village officials to implement the terms and conditions of a Professional Services agreement authorizing Village manager to expend budgeted funds authorizing Village manager to negotiate and execute a Professional Services agreement providing for a waiver of competitive bidding and providing for Effective in effective date okay okay who's is this AJ's who's tab oh come on out on good even Council hi how you guys doing good um so pretty much um you have any questions on this mayor I don't is anybody on Council will you do a just a very short quick overview absolutely very short so we um I was trying to hire uh um this company so they can help me migrate um our tenant um emails which they live in Gaddy at the moment so bring them in housee so the service is for them to help me and make the migration transparent and not have every any issues or delays or anything like that so bring them the emails in house and the reason to bring the emails in house is because it improves our security security uh we've been having a lot of issues with it uh it's is a third party um that we have to go and open a ticket if we have to do anything thank you thank you mayor go ahead I got one question well I guess it's it's kind of a comment to the manager uh when we when we do these items and it shows a budget impact and and it's obvious that the the the funds um have been approved for this purchase but when there's a budget impact there's also an impact as it relates to staff time uh and accountability that way is that um is that included when when when we write in these reports what the budget impact is or is it simply what the cost of this Mainframe or whatever it is going to be because I see for once we're actually spending less than what we accounted for in the budget which is awesome instead of a change order that continues to be more and more but do we account for the staff time that's involved in in doing this in direct answer to your question no the budget impact does not include a dollar value attached to that with so many of the items that we advanc there are costs of inaction as well as there are cost of action and if we really wanted to you know provide a robust picture of the budget impact we might also not only include you know staff time associated with implementing a certain thing or overseeing it but we might also include you know the costs that are potentially uh exposed to if we don't move forward so there's a there's a lot of math that goes into it so generally speaking if we're approving a contract the budget impact sticks just to the contract amount um but I can ask staff to at least try to illuminate um how much staff time might be necessary to support agenda items it's it's a it's kind of a where do you stop trying to capture the cost type of issue in a way question go ahead Deb um under staff impact um it defines it a little bit but maybe just some little bit more robust there com sure com conversation about would that work for you yeah yeah it would I I don't know you know uh working in a several not for-profits we always look at what was the cost to raise a dollar and so what is the cost once we once we buy something that's worth $36,900 what is the cost in order for the staff to have to implement that whatever it is and uh and it was the same question that I asked when when I had my briefing as it related to what uh you know did did a particular Grant include U the staff uh the staff time on that Grant and there was staff time in order to write the Grant and then there's staff time in order to oversee that Grant and so that there's there are other costs that are soft cost I guess you'd call them and I think it's important to know what those are if we're going to implement something sure we'll talk to staff and see if we can flesh out that section in a little more detail right thank you sure Mr Pender I I just would like to say thanks to Ramone and uh vce Vince uh for for your great work and what you guys do protecting us and everything else and making sure things work when they're supposed to work and I know for public information request you guys uh do you you have us protected there so we can get people that need their public information requests or do them that that it's for the clerk it's easy for her to at the click of the fingers to find these documents thank you thank you thank you thank you okay so do we have public comment before yes anyone on public comment I don't have anyone signed up for this okay do I have a motion I'll make a motion to approve I'll second Marne call the role please okay council member Pender yes council member Gillis yes council member fredman yes vice mayor Horton yes and mayor Mahoney yes the motion passes 5 Z Thank You tab 11 tab 11 is a resolution of the Village Council of is mar Village of Island Florida electing to use the uniform method of collecting non- adalum special assessments levied within the village beginning with the tax bill issued in November 2025 for the canal 147 restoration project uh stating a need for such Levy providing for the mailing of this resolution and providing for an effective date I see Peter grinning back there come on up okay good evening Council and welcome new members and Council so because we are proposing a new special assessment or tax it is a requirement within the Florida Statutes that we have to hold a public hearing so that's what we'll be doing this evening am going to uh just read a short script just to make sure we cover everything that's needed and then I can answer answer any questions Council has so the village is currently moving forward with a canal restoration project within Canal 147 on lower mumi key as part of our Canal restoration work program so the project does entail organic matter or muck removal a back filling and potential installation of an air curtain or air bubbler system at the mouth of the canal so 100% of the project from design through construction and monitoring is being funded through a grant from the FTE through the stewardship deck program however the operation and maintenance of the air curtain would have routine and ongoing costs that are not covered under the grant so the village is considering a an assessment program to fund these operating and maintenance costs that will be starting next year that would be in November 2025 so the residents affected would be those Canal front properties on Canal 147 that's the canal shown here on the map thanks Frank that's in between Atlantic and lasera lanes and there are 18 Parcels surrounding that Canal so the village staff have been discussing the idea of this assessment with the residents over the past year and we did ask all the property owners to vote on whether they wanted to move forward with the project and the assessment and the majority of the property owners did vote Yes they wanted to move forward on the project so the assessment would be divided equally among the affected property owners and the cost to the property owners is expected to be $1,250 per parcel per year so the village staff presented this idea to the Village Council at its regularly scheduled meeting that was on May 27th 2024 and during that meeting the council did give direction to staff to move forward with taking the necessary steps that we're doing tonight to implement this new assessment so so the Florida Statutes as I mentioned it does require that we do hold a public hearing which we're doing now and also adopting a resolution of intent to use the uniform method of collection for any Assessment program in the calendar year prior to any such collection so this resolution before you this evening this would specifically reference the potential special assessment program and it does reserve The Village's ability to impose the assessment in the Incorporated areas of the village and this resolution does not it does not obligate The Village to use this method or impose assess a special assessment this resolution is only assisting the village in meeting the statutory notice requirements to preserve this collection approach so this resolution is non-binding and the village May reduce the areas covered or reduce the costs or decide to not go forward with the assessment program at a later date so by adopting this resolution the village is simply reserving the right to use the tax bill collection method beginning in November of 2025 and if adopted the village staff will be sending a copy of the resolution to the Florida Department of Revenue Monroe County Tax Collector and the Monroe County property appraiser before January 10th 2025 and staff is recommending that the Village Council pass and adopt this proposed resolution and happy to answer any questions if there are any I've got anybody got questions so that's $22,500 I mean what we need to do in there is wonderful I mean this is great that there's a little Canal it's dead end it it you know getting rid of the the seaweed that floats in there and stays in there and goes to the bottom and kills everything else is wonderful why does it cost $22,500 a year just to just to maintain that system is is there so you came to that value by multiplying that cost time the Parcels yes sir okay just checking okay so those those fees were calculated by our vendors uh who have a very good idea of all the maintenance costs and replacement that also covers replacement for the first seven years uh we also got guidance from Monroe County who established the model for this so this isn't the first time this is being done we have a really good idea of what the routine operating and maintenance and electrical services costs are uh we we verified that value with our consultant answer advisory who assist the village with our special assessments and that was the value we came up with um what's required to maintain a bubbler I mean so that does so it is there are electrical components so there I as we do operate three of those in the village the air compressors need maintenance the hoses often need maintenance and then the diffusers at the mouth of the canal often get moved sediment would fill them if there's storms could be an issue so those are the types of of maintenance problems we can have now I will say this is the higher end of the of the estimate on costs we very very likely will be reducing this in the future we would not be increasing this and by all means we can assess how much we're spending on these costs and reduce out of a later time uh but we've been given direction that to go with this value uh based on estimated cost from our Consultants does seem expensive I I have a question okay thank you sure go ahead bu Peter who uh who pays for the electric for these running these compressors that that's factored into the cost okay I just want to make sure that owners weren't getting property owners weren't getting charged extra or whatever for that no that so that's the the charge of the service charges are factored into that cost per parcel per year go ahead Dad okay I had a question you said something about replacement costs so 7 years from now or 10 years from now whenever that is is this are the homeowners responsible for the replacement the first time we paid for it the the grant paid for it um what were you referring to as replacement just parts to keep the pumps running or what that would be almost certainly an event of a hurricane uh flooding or if you know a car were to plow through the whole system but we've have have had to replace these due to Hurricane Irma so that's what that cost is full replace to replace the whole system yes okay I just trying to clarify is that is that FEMA money to replace it we did not you that's a great question um in other words he doesn't I think it may have been covered by our femac cost from Irma yes as iall discussions with Maria Basset because it was ensured we were able to claim that so good I think that's accurate but I'm not 100% sure on that good questions thank you do you have some sure uh no I just want to say I think that these programs are incredibly important uh I think P's doing a great job on this and uh the fact that we have majority of of homeowners that are agreeing to the assessment I think is um fantastic yeah AB that's true anybody else no open public comment does anybody have any anything thank you Peter thank you yes Sue Miller would like to speak Sue Miller lower metacumbe I live in the next Canal over and I think I'm going to be the next Canal that gets this done I walk I walk into that neighborhood every morning and I've been um supervising the work and they're doing a really great job my question is um this is the third Canal that we've done or more um and this is the first time I've seen this um where the property owners are being asked to pay for maintenance issues I have a bubbler on my Canal now I've never had to pay an assessment for it and I'm just curious why this is for one single Canal why isn't it for all the canals so that that everybody that gets the advantage of the canal restoration project doesn't also pay why were these people selected that'd be a question thank you I mean you would know that yeah come on back up then because unless you know the answer make a comment at least I I asked part of that question uh when during my um review and I if I understand this right is going forward it would have to be different for each canal now but I don't know why we haven't done it for past canals so that would be your question yes and that's a fair and good question the reason is because in the other instances the property owners agreed to pay the costs uh there was no one within this canal system that agreed to pay those operating costs however they were requesting that we do it and they actually was the residents in fact that asked to set up a special taxing district so that's why I mean first option if they're willing to pay for the electrical service we would certainly allow them to do that you mean one one homeowner so in the case of the village there it's it's different we do have one resident that is paying for the full service cost electrical service cost for one of the canals and the other two it's split up between the homeowners associations but but you said that 18 people uh or the majority of those 18 people agreed to this they just didn't agree to pay for it correct they wanted the system in but they didn't agree to pay for the system and you keep saying that the other canals they agreed to pay the electrical cost what about the maintenance cost they so no The Village does pay for that for the maintenance that was set up to an agreement that was before I started but we do have agreements resolutions agreements that were passed stating that the village would pay for the maintenance costs so the taxpayers of of the village are paying for those two canals to have the maintenance done but the the homeowners association or a private entity homeowner is paying for the electric but the taxpayers V are paying to maintain that system that is correct okay yes interesting anybody I was going to see anybody else up here is that money uh eligible for Steward funds we need to close so no maintenance no it's not good question but the maintenance costs are not included within stewardship funding oh no I appreciate it okay got anybody else have anything so open public comment does anybody have any questions or anything are we good I have no one else signed up for public comment councel do I have motion to turn mic on oh I'll move to approve after I turned my microphone on I'll second Marney call the RO vice mayor Horton yes council member fredman yes council member Gillis yes council member Bender yes and mayor Mahoney yes motion pass 5 to zero okay John yep tab 12 is a resolution of the Village Council of Al Mar Village of violence Florida establishing the total amount of non-residential floor area and uh residential dwelling units quarterly allocations and the distribution of allocations between categories of the building permit allocation system for 2025 and providing for an effective date Jenifer good evening Council and again I'll Echo everyone else congratulations and I look forward to working with all of you throughout the next two years so um before you this evening you have your annual resolution approving the distribution of building permit allocations um for the upcoming 2025 calendar year um section 30-4 74e of the village code of ordinances requires that the Village Council Council establish the total amount of non-residential floor area and residential dwelling units that may be made available for the next annual building permit allocation system allocation the quarterly allocations for that year and the distribution of the these allocations between Cal categories the attached resolution proposes a distribution schedule for 2025 as follows the non-residential bass allocation for 2025 is 27,43 1 square ft and shall be allocated in quarter 1 of 2024 with unused allocations rolling over into each subsequent C quarter for distribution this amount reflects the total square footage available being rolled over from 2024 which was 20261 squ ft plus an additional 7,170 ft provided for in our comprehensive plan for 2025 there are two market rate housing allocations available for distribution in 2025 this resolution proposes to distribute one in quarter 1 and one 1 and quarter 3 there are 54 affordable housing allocations available for distribution in 2025 24 of these allocations are rolled over from 2024 and 30 are Avail are additional as provided for in our comprehensive plan and those are available in quarter 1 and then unused allocations would be rolled over in each subsequent quarter at this time I'd recommend the approval of the resolution and I'm here if you have any additional questions the um the 54 affordable housing allocations I didn't think to ask when we talked last time is that all early outs or is there there's like two or three I think there's two three I'm sorry three that are not early outs the rest are early outs okay no open public comment he percept we have van Caden Hut I be passed okay next is Joe wishm yes Joe wishm Plantation key I just want to reiterate what I said earlier that now that the village has hired a firm to redo the comp plan and the ldrs and they said it would be done in like 10 months or so I don't see why we keep moving forward on things when we have no idea what the new plan is going to consume of consist of so therefore I am I would respectfully uh say you ought to just suspend everything until we get our new comp plan and ldrs to find out what direction that we're headed in that way we have a good direction to go thank you thank you anyone else yes I have uh someone on Zoom okay s NCS 256 go ahead please state your name and you have three minutes would you still like to speak you have permission to talk um please unmute I guess they're yeah I guess they're not there huh okay hands not going down but also not unmuting any anyone else no that's it okay Council you guys have comments questions Steve I mean I'd like to hear from the other Council but I tend to agree with Mr wishme about um you know the comp plan and and seeing how we we can Jennifer how how would that goof up people though who are in the process of stuff um goof up that's not a proper word sorry sorry sorry it's planning go it's the first thing we learned in planning school um no I would um defer a little bit to John for legal advice just because our code does require that we establish this um distribution schedule annually um we do have uh 54 people waiting on the um B pass uh list for for allocations um our comp plan does establish what we um have intended to give out annually over the next you know so many years so that's where we're at there's you know just because somebody applies also doesn't I mean the council I don't think has has to give it but I will let John answer those questions I would also just um remind the council and the public also that we have a moratorium on market rate um bass uh uh applications um [Music] so no new applications are coming in but yes we have what was it 50 54 people on the list our comp plan does require us to allocate uh these at least for the for the year I mean it's it's definitely something that if we don't do it we would not be in compliance with the comp plan I make a motion to approve I'll second I don't know if there's any other comments you can still discuss second the discussion any we can still comment Steve does that make sense to you that that and Deb do you want to say anything are you good well I would have made a motion to approve so that's we Tak care of and also just a reminder any any bass allocations that are being awarded will come back before the council too for uh for specific individual uh consideration okay so Marne please call the RO council member Pender yes vice mayor Haron yes council member fredman yes council member Gillis yes and mayor Mahoney yes that motion passes 5 to zero thank you John tab 13 is a resolution of the Village Council of Isam Mara Village of Island Florida approving agreement between Isam Mara Village of Island and answer advisory for specialized Professional Services related to the maintenance of non-ad valorum assessment programs for waste storm water and solid waste collection services for fiscal year 2025 to 2026 approving the waiver of competitive bidding authorizing Village manager to execute the agreements authorize The Village manager to expend the budgeted funds and providing for an effective date Miss Lisa good evening congratulations everyone on your positions um look forward to working with all of you um tonight's resolution is basically uh something that we have to do every year um what we do is we hire a consultant answer advisor that used to be GSG and they do all the calculations for us for our Solid Waste Assessment program these are all on the tax bill they're non adorm assessments that are assessed to the citizens um for solid waste um and that's currently at 490 a year we may have to do some alterations on that next year you know raising the rate on that I'm I'm not sure we've kept that pretty much in check for the past two years so it it affects that and the storm water Assessment program which which is at $32 currently and then the Wastewater Assessment program which varies according to which area you're in the North Plantation key the supplemental the woods corner or the RSA 1 or rsa2 um now on those Wastewater assessments the citizens can elect to uh pay the balance of those we we can give them those numbers if they call into the office and we've had several do that this year um it doesn't have to be on your tax bill uh the other two um do have to be on the tax bill so the total amount of their services is $37,800 of which they've they haven't raised their rate in several years um and they do provide services from January through August um they have to start their you know their calculations early Gathering of their information they get from the property appraiser and that type of thing so um they it we really they do a lot of good work for us we haven't had any issues with them and so my recommend is that we keep them Council any questions for Lisa I don't have a question but I do have a statement that these people have done a wonderful job over the I don't even know how many years and the fact that in seven years that they have not rais their their price to us is absolutely amazing have questions okay open public comment anybody have anything they want to say no okay I don't have anyone signed up up for public comment for this item Council I'll make a motion to approve I'll second I'll second it Marney would you please call the role council member Gillis yes council member Pender yes council member fredman yes vice mayor Horton yes and mayor Mahoney yes the motion passes 5 to zero um before you go forward John do you guys good to keep going we only have two tabs left or do you want to take a little break sure let's get it done okay get her done everybody good just making sure okay John please yep and then after I read the title there's just one thing I want to uh advise you all in parliamentary procedure on this item um this is tab 14 it's a resolution of the Village Council of a mar Village of violence Florida providing a recommendation to the Monroe County bard of County Commissioners regarding the number of additional residential building permit allocations The Village would like to receive in potential future allocations repealing resolution number 24-1 0-12 providing for transmitt of this resolution to certain people within the county um as you all might before Jennifer gets in and probably going to steal a little bit of her Thunder but the um the resolution 24-10-11 122 was passed in October um recommending 104.7 uh bass or recommending the request of 104.7 bass units to be allocated over uh 12 A2 years um if the council would like to consider uh a resolution repealing that and changing the number to to any number whether greater or less um we procedurally the council would need to also move for a waiver of uh uh the current um Village Council procedures specifically section Roman numeral 2G which um is talks about what's called renewal um I'll just read it it says once an action is taken on a proposed ordinance or resolution nether the same matter nor its repeal or decision nor a substantially similar matter may be brought before the council again during the six-month period following set action unless a majority of the council agree to wave the rule so if you do want to act upon this the first motion would be to wave the rule um it would require three votes to do that and then the council could act upon it uh should it decide to okay Council anyone I would like to make the motion to wave the procedure is that the correct is that to repeal the you mean it would be a waiver of um section Roman numeral 2G as it applies to tab 14 in the agenda that's what I said I'll second it we got to have public comment okay anyone on public comment Marty well we do have several people signed up for public comment public comment is not required on this yeah this is merely a I know I heard him told he's haing we can't vote she asked he's hazing you he's this is just a procedural waiver but there will be public comment absolutely will be required on the substance of the of the item yes okay okay so Steve you want to say something yeah I'm not sure why we why we this is for the six-month waiver no no this is for a um a waiver so you're the the rules that um are are in place currently for the council uh state that if some if the Council has acted upon something it can't be brought back for the six-month waiver of the sorry I was Thinking of U B pass so yes it's for the six-month um the restriction on bringing this back within six months it would be a waiver of that restriction okay why are we doing that why why do we want to do that very simple I would like to discuss this decision that was made on 10 14.75 uh units to to minimize the number of units so I'd like to have that discussion and can't have that discussion and we can't call for a vote on that item unless we um unless we wave that uh 2 2G om new 2G right so it it just kind of seems to me I mean first of all we received this request um on the agenda I don't know from who it was from a council member okay are we supposed to say which Council I mean shouldn't that be on there or no I don't think it needs to be I thought it was was on there I thought it was on the when the agenda came out no it doesn't say who actually requested St buddy and I were on the last Council that decided on this and the only reason I would because trying to be open-minded the only reason I would wave it with them is so I get their input since they're on the council now that's the only reason I would agree but we can do that in a discussion without you know any sort of vote we could have that discuss do and then we can open it up we can't make override a prev decision we can discuss that and then decide later on if we want to bring it in to to over you could have the discussion first um and and then yeah you don't have to have the I mean we have to deal with the motion now cuz it's on the table um unless it's unless it's withdrawn but you can have the discussion first and then after the discussion you can bring bring the motion you you the motion would be required to take action U but it's not required to for the discussion purposes that's correct bu you want to say anything how do you feel I don't want to say anything I'm I'm going to go along just what you just said too just so hear everything yeah okay I didn't I didn't voice because he voiced but I also wanted to at least have a discussion about this so by waving it we're opening the ability to discuss it right yeah we don't NE maybe at the end of the conversation we don't change the amount maybe we just leave it the way it is or maybe we change it or maybe we change right so up or down I I would prefer to not risk any movement on it because of the previous Council spent a lot of time an effort on getting to this number I'm happy to talk about it and the reasons why we might want to change that number that was just decided on okay so we open public comment first I thought you said John said there was no public com at least not on the motion so there's a motion on the table to wave which we need to address you want to start well Mar can call the motion second yeah there's a motion in a second so the clerk would call the the RO call the vote okay so then call the RO Mar please council member GIS yes vice mayor Horton yes council member fredman no council member Pender yes and mayor Mahoney yes the motion passes 4 to one so now we would need to open up public comment on the substantive issue Marne is there anyone signed up for public comment yes our we have several speakers our first is Van Cadenhead I'm van kid from Al Mara I think this is reprehensible to do this I think it uh flies in the face of uh uh representative democracy we had u a two-hour discussion about this uh uh how many we needed at the time it was a very good discussion and I thought we came away with a not the number I would have wanted wanted I would have wanted lowerer than 104 but it seemed to cover everything that we needed and left several left over and just to do this to have them 250 the discussion is uh uh wrong to to ask to increase the the uh intensity and density of the population of alam marada is just ridiculous it's just we're we're Way Beyond overdevelopment as as we stand and have been for some time and if you don't believe me look at the look at the traffic and look at the uh the infrastructure we are you having a problem there sir his chair went down sorry life is going down I'm I'm uh I'm really sorry that uh that we were proven correct that the concrete Coalition that was running to get on this Council have now got into the majority to where they can pull a stunt like this I think this is a ridiculous uh uh obvious uh movement to to increase the the number of uh rogo allocations that you ask for from the county the county doesn't need to give us any more we don't need any more we didn't need any more 5 years ago but but the people that that are in the uh concrete Coalition the building industry in Alamar and the and the the people that support them in the rotary and the Chamber of Commerce and the TDC they all want to see continued growth and progress and continued growth and progress should be in our in our rear viw mirror and we should be looking at how to try to save what's left of alam marada and not how to fill it fill it up and build out to the property lines of every piece of property that we have so uh I'm against this I I'm I'm sorry you brought it up but it does show right out of the blocks where this council is headed uh at least on a 4 toone basis thank you wary who's next please next up is steuart schaer good evening mayor counsel um thanks for having me I live on Sugarloaf Key I'm uh representing the Sugarloaf Shores Property Owners Association our group is one of 20 organizations that are members of the Florida Keys rogo Coalition which is what this is for um we stand for a data-driven objective analysis of this issue so I sent a letter I emailed a letter to to everyone here I think um I hope you have it if you don't I've got other copies so from where I sit there are three possible reasons for requesting more allocations the first one is kind of psychological maybe there's a fear that other Keys governments are going to request as many as they can get and they're going to leave you out in the cold that's not what I'm seeing I've been working with the county for months now on this issue and I see them trying to take the minimum number required not the most so I don't think that issue is is valid a second possible issue for more allocations is affordable housing you've got 3002 allocations for affordable housing right now I don't think you need them for affordable housing so what's the third issue it's takings liability that's what all the locals go local governments are afraid of they're talking about they're getting advice on and I ask you to consider our letter on that subject unfort Ely it means we have to look at some numbers and I'm going to try to go through this not I'm not going to read the letter but I do want to point out the 250 allocations makes no sense from a takings perspective so the first thing staff did Village staff is they took a first cut at the number of buildable Lots 178 and then there are 54 in the queue for more allocations so you add those up and you get 232 why do you need 250 that's a cushion of 18 you shouldn't have a cushion no one that that's makes no sense next thing I would look at is what are your currently available allocations and your soon to be available allocations so you've got 13 allocations remaining from 2012 you have 23 ad administrative relief allocations that's 36 and you're going to be getting 40 out of the 220 that have been requested from the state that are allowed under the evacuation model those are coming so that number 76 allocations that's 22 more than the 54 folks in the queue for allocations so we're we're looking at some excess here so I gave you a number of 232 that's the number of lots you subtract this 76 you get 156 then staff did a second cut at your buildable lots and they eliminated some some lots that really aren't buildable the kind of elimination that the county has done as well to to winnow down the list and and that was a total of 40 I'm sorry 47 this was under the vacant parcel analysis that staff did it's attached to the agenda item or the tab and so this is this is has been blessed by staff so that number 156 - 47 is 109 so you're at9 and we haven't even talked about takings yet well the this vacant parcel analysis looked at takings issues in particular it identified 103 of these Parcels that are contiguous and held by a common owner there is a US Supreme Court case that says you can merge those and avoid any takings liability that is what you should be doing so 109 - 103 is 6 I've gotten you down to six and I've got one more takings issue for you it matters when these Lots were acquired if someone acquired a lot after rogo in 1992 they were warned that rogos will someday run out and they are unlikely to win a takings case if they acquired the lot after 2012 then they're even less likely to win a takings case because that was the year the entire keys were told 3,550 Lots or rogos are being issued and then were built out it was based on a carrying capacity study so they sure were under notice that they had to get in the queue and they did not staff ran the numbers on the uncharacterized vacant parcels and 68% of them were purchased after rogo you're not going to lose these takings claims the actual number based on takings liability you should be requesting is zero that is a an a takings analysis so just to repeat zero is my bottom line but you have 76 already available to you you've got 54 in the queue you don't need any more allocations so I ask you to lower that 105 104.7 five to zero thank you thank you I I let him keep speaking because he represents a group he should have had five minutes so that's why any next Marney next up is dy Moses second timer for five minutes she's not do she represented group okay good evening members of The Village Council my name is doy Moses and I am speaking today as the president of the island of kilargo Federation of homeowner associations our organization together with 19 other County groups as a member of the Florida Keys rogo Coalition we strongly advocate for transparent data-driven analysis of the impacts of additional rogos before any further Residential Building allocations are issued in Monroe County and the municipalities of the Florida Keys We respectfully urge the council to pause any decisions regarding additional bass units until the potential effects on Public Safety infrastructure and the environment have been fully evaluated the rate of growth ordinance was put in place carefully to carefully manage the pace of development in the Florida Keys its primary objectives are to protect our sensitive environmental areas and to ensure the safety of the residents especially in the event of an evacuation given that the evacuation safety is a key aspect of both rogo and bass it is critical that you first hear from Jonathan Rizzo Rizzo the warning coordination meteorologist for the National Weather Service in Key West his presentation on Hurricane forecasting in the Florida Keys is scheduled for tomorrow at the Monro County boc Special Workshop meeting and we encourage you to attend or watch in addition to these concerns Isam Rod is currently grappling with significant unresolved infrastructure challenges for example the level of service us one is failing due largely to the service severe traffic congestion in the island Mara area which continues to worsen moreover the Isam marada sewer system has experienced eight major pipe braks an issue that remains unresolved these breaks typically occur during High occupancy weekends raising the question is the problem an engineering failure or is it simply a matter of inadequate capacity without a clear analysis how can you justify adding more bass units that could only exasperate these existing problems furthermore during the recent County infrastructure Workshop we learned that there is a critical electrical transmission capacity problem between Isam Mara and Marathon particularly during Peak usage periods the drinking water pipeline is also under severe stress with pressure reductions in place until the pipeline can be replaced unfortunately replacing the line will take decades and cost billions of dollars these those infrastructure challenges are not confined to ISA marada they affect the entire County wouldn't it be prudent to First hear the findings on the infrastructure cost analysis commissioned by the county before making decisions that could place additional burdens on our already stressed infrastructure how can we you make informed decisions about future growth when the full scope of infrastructure costs both present and future has not been fully analyzed what is even more concerning is that none of this CR crucial analysis has been conducted by the council itself yet you were being asked to approve an increase and bass units with little or no understanding of the potential long-term impacts on the County's infrastructure and quality of life for the safety and sustainability of the whole community of the keys we respectfully request that you postpone any decision on bass allocations until a comp comprehensive analysis of the infrastructure challenges and Associated costs have been completed only then can you assume that growth is managed in a way that is responsible sustainable and truly in the best interest of all the residents thank you thank you for your time and thoughtful consideration thank you Marne next up is Anne Olsen good evening mayor and council members I'm Anne Olsen I live on Summerland Key and I'm president of a keys wide organization called Last Stand it's who I'm speaking on behalf of tonight I also support the work done by the Florida Keys rogo Coalition over the past few months and in just a few short weeks over a thousand people have signed the petition that states the first responsibility of government is to protect the lives and the well-being of the people and as already said but specifically we've urged policy makers to conduct objective datadriven analysis so both you and residents fully understand the long-term fiscal environmental and quality of life impacts of more development and the more data collected the more it shows that prop property rights litigation may be the least expensive issue the highest costs are human and environmental let's just look at a few hurricane evacuation many officials say it's not that important what's a few different hours not everyone leaves but the reality is that all evacuation models undercount the population the Florida commerce model considers any house unoccupied on April 1st as vacant for the entire hurricane season this ignores the vast proliferation of vacation rentals and our houses that are anything but vacant and still this model says that we are maxed out and according to the County's Public Opinion surveys 86% of Key's residents are concerned with in increasing vacation I'm sorry evacuation time or even getting out during the next evacuation or hurricane you may think it's less critical here in Isa marada you're much closer to the mainland but the ma vast majority of keys residents still have to get through Isa marada and the traffic here is gridlocked on a good day when we look at the Emergency Management models they count less than 3/4 of the population and consider the evacuation done at the county line in the middle of the flood prone 18 Mile Stretch just a few miles north kilargo and that still takes 43 and 1 half hours extrap at that into daytime evacuation when Behavioral Studies tell us that's when most people evacuate and we're talking 3 and 1 half to 4 days if we have that much advanced notice what if 80% evacuated instead we've seen the consequences elsewhere in Florida where typically they have one or two Bridges and a few miles to get to safety here we've got 130 miles consider just yet another busted water man or sewer pipe breake and in the resulting traffic or a simple wobble of the path trajectory or the rapid intensification of a hurricane considered both our new normal and the one thing forecasters can't effectively forecast the consequences here are deadly but what gets lost in this discussion is that the hurricane evacuation modeling is simply the agreed upon surrogate for carrying capacity since that's easier to quantify than all the other environmental damage resulting from overdevelopment the last carrying capacity study done in the 90s was damning worse things have only deteriorated since then the legal limits on development and the keys were to ensure that development doesn't exceed the compar the capacity of both our natural systems and our infrastructure tostand all development these impacts are plain to see but there's a lot of scientific studies that back them up as well some basic facts we can look at the reef it's 98% dead it was in far better shape back in the '90s when the growth limitations were first established our water quality remains impaired repeated again just this past week by the sanctuary's water quality Protection Program fish dios aberant Behavior are more frequent and include the death of protected and endangered marine species I urge you to consider the true cost of con exceeding the already reached maximum buildout it's not just the take of cost of takings as Stuart showed it's weighing that cost against the economic loss to our fishing and our tourism Industries the cost to not just maintain but expand all of our infrastructure and potentially the irreversible damage to our environment so what sort of place will your decision and vote leave the keys in as one County Commissioner recently noted development pressure is Relentless even if you think you can handle the resisting the pressure what about the next board or the one after it it's important because you can't undo too many remember I hate to say this but you can always ask for more rogos 5 10 20 years down the line especially if there are improvements in quality of life traffic environment and infrastructure but you can't undo take taking too many right now we all know they're going to get used this shouldn't be a race to get to the most it should be a focus on the very least and the latest County survey reflects just that 84% of our citizens say either no more rogos or the 220 just requested by the bccc that's overwhelming support for very few thank you very much morning good on you next up is Joe wishme yes Joe wishm Plantation ke first thing is I would like to challenge the legality of revisiting this issue that was discussed and voted on by the previous Council it seems to me that this issue had came up before and Mr Quick said the only way it could come back if it one of the members of the agreeing team were to bring it back I don't believe that that happened on this so therefore I don't even think that it's a legal uh a legal way to come about doing this I'll refer to Mr Quick again he can go ahead and take care of that next I would refer to the email that was sent to the council members uh the gentleman went over I'm not going to go over all the numbers that he just quoted you but one thing I would like to say that the figures that he quoted do not even include the 300 early out permits that you've already gotten the 109 is every single buildable lot in Isa marada do you really want that for our future Generations what about greenspace our traffic and water and schools enough is enough buildout has already been achieved our services are already maxed out as was mentioned earlier between the water mains and the sewer remember the mission statement I keep bringing that up look out for future Generations happiness vacation rentals are not good for our resources people abuse our resources especially our reefs and infrastructure Workforce housing not affordable housing is what is needed Apartments not Mansion bartenders waitresses boat captains boat mates they cannot afford expensive houses look out for our Workforce housing people we have trouble getting enough of them in now most of them have to come from homestead or Miami look out for them and make sure you do apartment buildings and not Mansions thank you thank you Mary next up is Sue Miller suer lower mumbi um in light of all of the DraStic storms we've seen heading towards Florida in the last few months it's just unbelievable that we would in a coastal area like ours with one road out we want to keep building we have sea level rise we have a 18m stretch that could likely be flooded before we even get our people out it just unbelievable that we would want to build more um in 2012 the study showed that we could um feasibly accommodate 280 new homes then the state gave us another 300 it seems to me now that you're you're way pay over what we thought we could accommodate back 10 12 years ago and we still want more I just it's unbelievable to me that we are suffering from the congestion on our Highway our reef is dying or dead the fishing is lousy and and the the environment is struggling and it's not struggling because of anything except we're overusing everything we have and we you know it's time to stop we have been built out for a number of years I have become a Hermit because it is so impossible to get anywhere in this town except at certain hours of the day and and it's really exhausting to try to schedule everything so that you can manage to get from one place to another in this town especially on weekends and I just hope that the reason that you wanted to bring this back was so that you could reduce the number that the last Council agreed to thank you thank you sue Marne okay we have a zoom caller s NC s 256 okay you've got permission to speak go ahead you've got three minutes please state your name hi hello can you hear me yes we can thank you hi hi sorry my internet my internet's really spotty out here um hi thank you for taking the time to listen I had uh raised my hand a little earlier and I think that my internet was delayed um it's on a separate topic it's back on the topic of canal 147 the um the air curtain I'm not sure if this is the right time to speak about that or that's if you need to do that at a later time but I am a resident of that canal and I'm in opposition of moving forward with this yeah she was she was she was trying to get what I heard was she was trying to get on before on the air curtain one and she wasn't able to and she wanted to voice her opposition to that oh I couldn't understand her thank you Marney oh sorry there's no one else that's it that's it okay public comment is now closed um the reason I voted just to rehear it is because I feel these two should have the you Steve too should have the ability to to listen to how they feel so go ahead one of you guys want to start well it's no secret how I feel I've said it twice uh in front of council maybe three times in front of council um I think that um there are multiple reasons to follow the direction or the recommendation of our planning director um I feel like we risk putting a burden on the taxpayers of is Mara if we don't at least have the number that is sufficient to cover any takings claims and I continue to hear people tell me that takings claims aren't going to happen don't worry about takings claims but simply in my short time of almost 40 years down here I've seen two very major takings claims that were successful um well they were successful because they didn't have to go to court they were uh settled out of court and that was the six slots down on soldier's property and that was everything on Captain's code and they tried and tried and tried to either re zone or stop these developments and the owners of those properties were successful in going to court suing the village or suing the county and coming back and having to get their rights to do what they did so I mean I'm not a lawyer but I've seen it happen and I think it's irresponsible to to say that it's not going to happen and that uh we don't have some type of buffer now I've said it to the previous Council and the council before that that if we're if if the count if the state is willing to give us more that we should take them all I am not saying that we should use them all I'm saying that the community as a whole when we develop our comprehensive plan and our Land Development regulations should all way in and come to a determination of how or if we allocate any of them but I'm saying that I feel like it is irresponsible on the taxpayers of Isam marada to just simply say it's not going to happen because it's it's happened before I continue to hear people say that our infrastructure is um uh is is overwhelmed but yet when you talk to the professionals at the aqueduct they say look we're only changing out the pipeline because the pipeline is 50 years old and it's reaches lifetime uh we can if if if we would have put in the proper cathartic protection and if we would have known that we would have used a different metal in our high salt environment that um we we would have had a pipeline that could have lasted longer and so now they know what they know and they're putting in a better pipeline but they can certainly handle according to them a lot more flow the co-op is telling me the same thing Don if you want to throw in two 2,000 more houses we do not need to increase our infrastructure whatsoever we've got the power now so I I'm listening to these professionals that that have that bring our power and bring our water and yeah we've got a sewer problem and and that's a problem that we've had since we wrote that first contract and we need to fix that uh and we know we need to fix that and I don't think there's anybody up here that would disagree that there is a way to do it and we need to work on that and that's something that's going to be put on these five people's shoulders um but you know there was a poll taken in alamada and I believe that was 60% more that said they weren't against more houses being built in alada um I think that um I think it it's just irresponsible for us to say we're not going to take any and those things vanish and we're sitting here all of a sudden realizing that takings Claims can happen and um and and we don't have an out for we don't have an insurance policy so I I think it's incumbent on the citizens the taxpayers and the citizens of alamada to come to these meetings while we're developing our comprehensive plan and writing Our Land Development regulations and weighing in heavily and I don't mean just you know the 17 people that showed up at the last Workshop I think that we need to find a a a place where we can get 200 people to come and get them engaged in this system and and and get a real honest to goodness feel for what the citizens in Isam marada want but at this point listening to people that tell me don't worry it's not going to happen when I've already seen it happen and maybe they don't go to court maybe they don't get themselves into court because they've realized that they have the potential of losing they turn around and settle out a court and I've seen it happen so I'm going to say it like I said it at the last two or three Council me that I've been in front of whatever it is that the number that our planning director says we should take I think we should take them all but I am not saying that we need to use them all or that we're going to use them all but I'm saying it's just not responsible to put that burden on the taxpayers of Isam marada in the event event we there is a failure in a taking claim and that's all Deb do you want to go sure so I'm probably not quite as strong as Don on this but I agree uh I sat through that takings presentation by the lawyers that said very few of them actually um win in court but I also agree that I believe that several of them settled out of court and we have no way of tracking those so we need to have that buffer because we don't want to uh burden the taxpayers with that dollar amount whatever that is whether we have to buy or we we would have to do something um and what that is we're we're still working on the possibilities um the infrastructure is also not an issue for me at this point because we have heard from the water and the electric people that no they have it do we have a problem currently with the pipe yes they're working on that but it doesn't mean that it can't handle more water even if we need more water it means that it needs to be fixed everything needs to be fixed from time to time everything the the sewer problem is a break that is um currently being resolved hopefully being resolved and it's not necessarily from too much it's and how it's being delivered uh is where we think it is currently but we're working on that um the list of vacant Parcels that that uh the planning department did I went through them and tried to do my own ideas on them and came up with uh a couple categories that I I believe that probably would not need lots and [Music] um but several of those categories I believe could need lots like the 103 properties that could be unified yeah they could be unified but will the homeowners unify them can we entice them to unify them if we can't we have to figure out some way of solving that problem so maybe not all of them maybe some of them we don't know that figure until we get it the um two Billboards well we saw one billboard go away this last year the two billboard properties sorry um maybe that's that's only two but two is two and I've said that before is sometimes one one is worth doing things for uh the uh 24 that are uh habitat and hammock places um and on the forever list well just because they're on the forever list doesn't mean that we can get them bought it means that we can work really hard at that so I kind of cut that in half uh to come up with something and uh the eight Parcels that are in Taver tavano sorry the you know they've already got a restriction on them to not be used I'm sorry they they can be they cannot we we would need to have permits for those because they're not allowed to be accessory units anyway um so my figure is not 250 but my figure was more than 105 we'll call it um I also believe that part of the re how they came up with 200 or 105 was that they used um one per quarter for the next 12 and A2 years I think 12 and A2 is right um and I was struggling to get to that math but somehow one per quarter four per year does not work for me I would like to see a couple per quarter that might include the affordables that are passed out also I that's to be determined um that was allocations as a whole um so I would like that moved up a little bit um I believe by we we we constantly keep saying that we have a problem with our Workforce yeah we probably caused it years ago of how we did this and but we need to figure out how to correct it and if we don't correct it uh everybody here is going to be U second and third homes million dooll homes so we need to wait and we can't do it without some permits somewhere um we do have the ear outs the if we use all 300 of those in the past studies and I do not have that figure in front of me I couldn't find it in my very old notes um we need a whole lot more to meet the affordable housing requirements that we we would think that we need to to sustain what we've got than 300 there 1500 how much, 1500 yeah say that's I I remember something like it was oh this is several years ago like 7,000 for the the Florida keys but I don't remember what the itam on he say in 1500 whatever um all that being said there's something that I learned during my uh Council review uh agenda review that I think should be a factor that the county has can get 200 50 as a to 220 I'm sorry as a total for um the fact that they did the math and they they think that they can get 220 as a total for the keys uh without much argument from the state anything over and above that 220 now that's not Isa marada that's the county as a whole that's including Isam marada um anything over and above that needs a legislative action the legislative actions will take time to manage I'm not saying that we should or shouldn't do that I'm just saying time is always a factor in what you do um when we talk about building time is money uh when we talk about solving problems time is very much a consideration out of that 220 it has been quoted to me I don't know where 40 came from for sure but it's been quoted that Isam would get 40 we just keep that in mind that's part of that conversation um I appreciate the opportunity to weigh in on this um and I think that's all I got at this point of time I'd like to hear from others you want to go yeah I I think that the public should know who brought this uh to the agenda it it shouldn't isn't that Protocol no I have no clue sure uh councilman Horton requested that we add this to the agenda okay thank you and I supported it so you talked about it together no or okay just check so I I guess you know first of all we're not showing any any confidence in our Council to defend these potential takings cases which we have had success and some failure very early on in the process um uh I I also think that we need to be focusing in on our infrastructure we've had what nine sewage breaks in the last year orle few years and um you know uh I'm listening to my constituents the people that got me this seat and I'm listening to thousands of people that just showed up to this podium in the form of a handful of people said we don't we don't need this we don't want it that's who I'm going to listen to so should this pass as written like this I think it's a lesson to everybody out there that if you don't like something that we vote on just wait for a new Council and then just you know change it just like the overpass and now with this you don't even need to wait that long we just get a few people on Council to wave the the the six-month uh um waiting period in terms of what a decision of a capable Council had made previously so um I I I object to this whole situation and um I I would just like to um uh I would just like to say that that we need to be really careful here because I it if we just keep you know throwing numbers out there arbitrarily I think that's a that's a bigger risk than what Mr Horton is worried about Mr Pender well I'm going to look at it from a different approach cuz uh I don't think there's many people that have been sitting in this room my family homesteaded here in the in the middle 1800s the penders and the Russell and I'll tell you something Steve you're a fishing guide my grandpa fish for $3 a day you know what where are the new Young generations going to be able to live that grow up here want to live here want to work here and I mean I've seen seen in the four years I've already served young PE Richard black is a fishing guy it took him probably he had been in the system I don't know how many years and him and his wife called me and you know hey they they owned a lot they bought a lot and they can't get a permit okay what about the people that want to live here and work here I've been all over the state of the FL the State of Florida there are cities that are building Workforce housing success F but you know what we talk about and I've been watching in the in this town for 20 years plus we talk about affordables and the minute we go to do it and we got people saying you can't do that you can't do that you can't do that we got to do something to help and we got to try to make a place for the future Generations because if not just I forget who just said it but multi-million dollar people are going to come down here and buy I've seen ocean re three homes probably $35 million and they tore the whole thing down and they built them a house that's probably I don't know maybe 20,000 Square ft with probably over 10 or 15 bathrooms but it just gets me that when I understand we got to have Smart growth but we got to start thinking about you know the other and I got family members that have owned lot since the 50s and they can't get a permit it's been in our family since the 50s is that fair that my grandfather bought these Lots okay and they've been handed down through trust and and and through when one of our family member dies and and then then one of the younger family members get it is that okay has I mean what I mean is it not is it is it really fair that they've had that lot it's been in a family for that many years and now we can't even get a building right for it all right so so I'm just saying man this is really I I don't I don't I was one of the ones that approved the 100 units on on the previous Council so was Sharon all right we we approved 104 but you know I waited seven years to get a permit when the village first came in because I wasn't in the county I didn't get in the County and I waited 7 years to get a permit all right so you know and I've worked all up and down the keys I know all about lower Sugar Loaf and little torch and and Summerland all that there are a lot of homes down there it used to be nothing but mangr now okay there's more homes but you know this is not an easy situation that we're dealing with but but we have to build some Workforce housing we got to start thinking about the future Generations who's going to be the fishing guide here who's going to how are they going to be able to afford to live here okay who's going to be the offshore guys or the ecotour people that are are we going to bring them in from somewhere else they're going to go somewhere else if they can't get the service they need here I've already seen it happened from The Islander from chicod and then then the you know it's just rates go up most of these Hotel people around here have to bring people from the mainland the sheriff brings people they they get to they they go to Homestead in Miami firefighters come from Miami what are we going to do there there's not going to be anywhere for these people to live and and you know what a lot of us sitting in this room have lived off tourism our whole life okay tourism people came here to fish to dive to go swim with the dolphins or or or go out and look at sharks or go in back country and look at birds or whatever I I I just you know I I I this is it's a very tough thing but I I mean and what gets me is when newcomers come here and then they want to try to stop us with what if my great great-grandfather and Grand and father and father said no more no more and cut it off a lot of people wouldn't be an alada today but they would have stuck with their decision okay well so I would say that both of you who voted for this I would make a motion to table this for 6 months there's no hurry on this and then we can open up the discussion Again Jennifer is there a time limit on this well if you're if you're looking to change the previous council's decision and get information back to the county the board of County Commissioners needs a decision from you by their December 11th meeting that's when they're looking to make some directives to go back to the state so they told me they were looking for a final number or something from you by December 11th y so well I'm not finished yet myself because I'll tell you something there's people sitting in this room that I guarantee you in the last four years has build houses but it's okay to go get a permit and build houses but then you're going to if you're going to live in a glass house you shouldn't throw stones at people don't you you got yours and now you're going to stop try to stop somebody else come on I I think we need to have a limit on what we do and everything and then the sewer thing look we're in an environment that saltwater runs most people don't know but the the the saltwater runs through right here little Snake Creek runs under the road from the bay to the ocean and and some of the problems down here are unique what which people I was a a Wastewater contractor I sewered the federal Key Deer preserve on no-name key that had never been it been off the grid I worked in the kudjo regional project from lower Sugarloaf to Long Beach Road to the North End of Big Pine and and you know we keep blaming this on infrastructure well number one it's a very tough environment and I can tell you that in Big Pine Key that there's canals that did not have nice pretty presstine water in it but today you know 8 10 years later by getting the the whole thing sewered it is and I know a lot of people down there didn't want it to be sewered but it is today it's thriving if you went drove to some of those canals in Big Pine Key and see the fish and the clarity of the water but the the thing with this is how do we know it's not something washing the bedding out but I mean it could be hammering there's many things so we we can't say that our infrastructure is is not that has nothing to do there's an issue there because there's a problem where the water moves underneath in the Rock and could cause that when If It Moves the fill the the the beding of it and then when that thing hammers a little bit when the pressure changes okay that can cause that pipe break which okay in my opinion uh one of the village managers years ago should not have brought Wastewater in house okay because we we let the guys off the hook that put our main line in from alamada to kilargo that's right all right that but that's my own personal opinion and I worked on that job as well I was worked with with Lane I I don't agree with what the village did with with that but but anyways i' I've said my piece I don't believe that you know I think we have to we we need to have Smart growth all right there are many the whole state of Florida is is doing Redevelopment I just came from dun Eden and you it's remarkable what they have did in dun Eden and how that town is so beautiful the people are so nice the bike pass and everything so you know I don't know I I it's uh anyway Sharon I'm I'm done okay I spoke my piece um when the last time we sat here uh people say we have all this and all that Jennifer what is the magic number to cover everything and what do we have I hear so many different things I'm I'm confused that you know and as far as the infrastructure goes in the water and the electric I certainly don't want to push the water and the electric to it's capped off we done to me that's just silly I mean we need to that is an issue the amount that we push through the water and and the electric and everything so I don't really agree with that I don't agree with taking 250 at all um I know you want to cover everything but what scares me the most is the people who are going to be sitting up here years to come they can do exactly what you guys wanted to do tonight and change something and there's no guarantee if we take the 250 they're going to be safe and we'll just sit on them I don't I don't trust that because I don't trust people sounds good but um um I agreed with Mark and Elizabeth that night and it sounded to me that night that the 105 covered everything does it Jennifer there's no magic number right I wish it was so I mean we did the analysis um that we were able to do in the time that we had um you know there is still additional analysis that we could do I think at that night we discussed you know we didn't look at each individual property as far as when they were purchased because you know that plays a factor and and certain Le and takings claims um so we didn't look at that um and there's some other things that we didn't look at but you know the the number I gave you was a a cushion number yes to cover all our bases you know all of this was done by humans humans make mistakes I'm certainly not infallible my staff is certainly not infallible and I wasn't going to give you a number that I thought would be right and then you know we find out oh well we actually have you know 10 extra vacant Parcels that we didn't find out about so that's why I came up with the number that I came up with am I married to the number no does it you know matter to me one way or the other no I was giving you the analysis so that you guys can make the decision that you feel is in the best interest of the village the other thing I just wanted to add after that meeting and after the county had their most recent meeting um I received a call from the Department of Commerce because um they are going over all of the jurisdictions vacant parcel analysis and they are excuse me relooking at all the numbers that each jurisdiction provided to to do that analysis and they had some questions about the analysis because they actually had a higher number of vacant Parcels than we provided and so they wanted to speak with us about how we came up with the number and they want us to look at some additional things that they were looking at that we didn't consider so they didn't give me their number um and I have to by the end of next week get them some more information so that number is still in flux as far as the Department of Commerce is concerned I ask Jennifer a question of course so Jennifer when when do we have to do something with this if if if we can is it is this something we can table and bring back next month that we gather some more information we what can we do with this I mean you can absolutely do that like I said the county is looking for input you know by December 11th for their meeting which I think is the following week um so that they can make a a good decision um to then direct their staff what to do as far as they're proposing meetings with the Department of Commerce to have these ongoing discussions I think ultimately they're looking to finalize their decisions by the first of the year so I think if you know we give them a number but then we're still looking at stuff I think the first of the year is sort of the ultimate cutoff date so we have a meeting on the 10th correct and so 10th and the 12th the only thing I was going to say is if you continue it or defer it to the 10th um and a decision is made at that night I would just ask that the mayor be available for signing a resolution as soon as possible so that we can get it to the county the following day let me ask question okay Mr I'm sorry no one buddy joh Mr Quick wanted to chime in I was just I just one one point of clarification to if if you um if nothing is done done we do we do have a number and there's a resolution that stands currently and that's that's what has been conveyed to the county and that would stand so we do have a number if nothing is done we do have a request number that that is out there and they have received the resolution already so okay so oh go ahead so first off I have a lot of faith in West Road I've worked with them for 24 years I've I worked with them when I was the building official with Isam R and and it's a it's an it's a MAG magificent firm but I trust my doctor too and I still have insurance so um it has nothing to do with not having faith it has everything to do with trying to protect the taxpayer and secondly uh there was no secret this isn't some secret thing i' said it as I said before multiple times in front of other councils so my position is still the same position as I had before and it is no surprise so if my if if my the folks that voted for me voted for me they knew what my position was because I've been here and stood at that counter more than just about a lot of people it just wasn't certainly it's not the matter is not here it we do have the right to revisit this which is what we're doing we're not arguing that okay I'm just saying so but you said I don't have faith in these folks and I do have faith in these folks I I have faith in my doctor and I still have insurance and I don't want to put that burden on the taxpayers but but does that have does that number have to come now Jennifer or can that number okay so we're saying that the county is going to automatically get to 20 or something right and we're going to get 40 out of that is that automatically going I don't know that that's an automatic right I think the county so what councilwoman Gillis was referring to is the without making any legislative changes we can the county countywide can accept 220 additional allocations 40 of those can come to ISA marada that's without making any legislative changes to the hurricane evacuation times I if I heard I listened to the last County Commissioners meeting and I believe they have directed their staff to request that 220 um from the state moving forward and they're continuing to do this analysis and investigation for additional options so I think they're requesting it obviously anything that comes from the state is their decision like we're not just going to get anything they're going to tell us what we're going to get right so nothing's automatic nothing's guaranteed um anything else over that 220 would require legislative changes so that would require you know bigger conversations with the Department of Commerce our state legislators you know probably the governor's office lots of different people so that's a bigger conversation and a longer process so I think you know in the in in the immediate the 220 is you know more in our grasp and then anything beyond that if we're interested in is a bigger conversation so I think that's why the County's looking for well what's your most Outreach number because if we're going to have those bigger conversations we need to know what you're looking for on the further Outreach you may not get it you may only get 40 because you know if the state doesn't want to make any legislative changes you're not going to get anything but if if we decide to go that route or the state decid agrees with us and that's the way we want to go if everybody agrees then what's your Outreach number does that make sense go ahead do we have any feel of for the the 220 that it's somewhat guaranteed uh I guess not but um and the okay so and then the second half of the question let's assume and it's a bad assumption CU I know the word but if we assume that we get the the 220 uh the county gets the 220 not us and and but we think that we need whatever that number is because we're got everything on the table right now um could that come in the future do we think that that they they could issue it in two pieces we get our 40 and then as they work and if they if they decide that yes the the keys need more as a whole could they do it in two pieces or is it a one shot deal I think that's the actually the idea is to do it in two pieces to do to ask for this initial request because again there's no legislative changes required and then to continue to work on the other pieces I think that's the idea okay so what we're really talking tonight is that of course we want the two well maybe not but of course we want the the 50 or 40 the 40 that comes out of the 220 whatever that figure is we want that well yeah we're talking about that but we're also talking about what is your out number yes that's the but so we're talking what the maximum might be over and above because my number is not zero my number is not zero so I don't want it to get sent to the county and I know we have the the one in place that says 105 or whatever but I don't want them to think that oh no we're not interested in that uh we need we need some help um I've been to Tallahassee more than one time asking for help with with this lot U allocation problem um from my prior experience we tried all sorts of things and so this this is the first time that I've heard any positive help uh to us and some of those things that we tried in the past they may come back again but uh if if we don't let them know what we think that we need and I'm I'm in agreement on the the fact that takings is not going to be as hot high as has been implied but it's not going to be as low as has been implied either I think we're going to end up in between there are going to be people that will take us to courton can we win maybe half of those uh and I do have faith in your firm I do I've seen him do a lot of good stuff um but that doesn't mean that all of them would win um I I'm I'm not at 250 so we're I know why you're at 250 but I'm not at 250 where you at well I've tossed around about 20 million numbers here so we're really going to do this we're really just going to start throwing numbers out when you guys well I can I can I I can actually tell you how I came up with a number I just want sure that that's my final answer but I can tell you what I just came up with I just want to see how far apart we are that's all I ask for a number that's that's all reason I asked listen I don't want to see I have 190 vacant Lots I don't want every one of those built hell heck heck no say you know and no I'm not anywhere near 250 I'm sorry I'm not but I want to make sure we are covered because I don't trust what people can do just like this is going on now with the next count oh let's give them all out now you know so that's what scares me that's the question I had for you Jennifer is scares me even if you took I'm just going to pick a magic number 200 okay if you took 200 we don't have to give them out we can stretch them out 20 or 30 years and whatever the next Council we we don't have to give them all and and I don't think anybody up here is is saying let's give them out let's give 50 a year out or something I think we were only given 24 a year or something you know over the period of of from when when I waited 7 years for my first permit that's right okay so where do we go I agree they don't have to give them out but I also understand the point that things can change and and the people on the council we know this we know this it's a comp plan CH a comp plan change a difficult process yes it takes a lot more than just just happening and we can we can help guide um but let me let me ask Jennifer finish my question with Jennifer Jennifer do we is this something can we table this until we can have some more time could we bring this back on the 10th or is this something that we have to vote on tonight again you can table it but if you're looking to give the County Guidance on what you're looking for that they're looking for guidance from you by on December 11th so you can certainly table it but I would say that December 10th is sort of a day we would need if you're making a decision to make a change that would be sort of a decision date and I'm okay with that I'm okay with advertising the hell out of it and doing it on a tent I'm okay with that I I just um but is this resolution written that we're whoever put the resolution together that we're taking all 250 okay no I was wondering who did that and like with any resolution that's before you all you can make any modifications should you wish I mean right now he joh just said earlier it stays at the 104 okay so we're table what's the purpose in tabling it what are we going to what information are we going to get oh that's common sense you know oops that's the question is there any more information that we can gather in a month are we just tbling if you guys want to stay here until midnight and hash this out like we did at the last meeting that we did so how how is it going to change next month that's my question I we can stay tonight we can stay no on the 10th I don't want to stay late either night but is it going to change or are we going to have the same arguments on the 10th so that's why I made a motion to table it for six months but in six months you're going to be everything's going to be gone you still have the whole 104 yeah plus a 40 there is this is the decision that you guys worked very hard on lots of hours on this I don't want to have to go through that again until I have to I understand I just thought they had the the right to voice their opinion so go ahead John so I let I'll just put a number out there 150 and I have I have some paper justification it's not overly clear here that's what I said that it was it's 150 but I want the 75 to make it even so I want to I want to be able to utilize that 0.25 that we've got out there but so if that's 14975 that's fine with me so anybody is that 150 plus the 40 no that's that's 150 toal right that's so you 110 and then you want no no because it's all it's not in addition to they would give us the 40 and they would take it off the 150 correct I didn't know they'd subtract oh yes okay at least I I say that more definite than I should so I don't know so where do we go I I would say that we table it till the 10th meeting and let make sure everybody can get theirself have a good understanding and get educated because of of what's what I'll second can I just from a procedural standpoint can I um and it might sound uh not important but there are there are um parliamentary definitions in terms of tabling versus continue um tabling is a very different thing that it's a it's a very procedure and actually our procedures don't allow for tabling it it would be a motion to continue until December the uh December 10th meeting um just it's just a just a slight change in the terminology December the 10th or is December the 12th it's the 10th Tuesday night or the Thursday night the 10 is the Tuesday is this considered land or is it considered normally it you control your agenda you can direct it be brought back on we can get it done on the 10th we don't have to come back on the 12th no because land is on the 12th a whole bunch of land let's ask J for that question you normally this would be brought during land use but but you all can control you control your agenda so if you want it brought on the 10th bring was asking there is land you set for the 12th yes there a lot of land use on the 12th so you're not getting rid of it okay it's going to be a quasi judicial Bonanza on the 12th yes I can't wait so uh the 10th and the 12th is going to be long meetings but either way well I I said I was in favor of continuing it so it's a mo the motion on the table is a motion to continue uh tab 14 to the December 10th meeting uh for further consideration correct I believe Steve second Steve actually have a point of order first sure uh back to the original um opening this all up I I I think there wasn't protocol set in terms of uh who brings forth brings this forth I think you can verify that right it has to be one of the original Council that made that decision no under our under our procedures particularly when you have a when you're in a a situation like this where you have a change over in the in the the people on Council there is a procedure built into our Council procedures that you can bring an item back as long as it is waved by as long as there's a majority that waves the the rule on that so it's not required to be done as a motion for reconsideration um whereas in other instances it might but because of the procedural posture we're in now it wasn't required okay thanks for the clarification you're welcome sir okay so then we have a motion and a second uh to continue on the 10th Marne would you call the role please council member budy Bender yes council member Steve fredman yes council member Deb Gillis no vice mayor Don Horton yes and mayor Sharon Mahoney yes motion passes 4 to one can I just ask if there's additional information that you all need from my office I would just ask that you give me at least a week or so to provide you that before anybody have any information if you know now I'm happy to take it now I don't know what we could I don't know what that that was my point I don't know what we could add Jennifer I just want to know all everything what we've got up until the date before the meeting what's what how many what we just did the 10475 I want to know all the info the Intel to help me understand so I can make an intelligent decision okay well if I can help in anyway just let me I'll call you yeah I agree okay so moving on to our last tab Mr Quick last tab is tab 15 it's a resolution of the Village Council ofar Village of violence Florida updating the village council meeting procedures and providing for an effective date um this is this is my item um within the last month or so there was a um uh a federal court case that came out of came out of Broward actually the Broward School Board that um changed the the law as it relates to um public comment rights and first amend Amendment rights um during public comment this was just intended to um uh to to bring our procedures in line with what is now new law um admittedly there is a motion for re-hearing that has been filed on that and so that law could has a chance of being overturned but I would rather us come into compliance with it during the interim because federal court appeals courts motion for hearing can be dealt within a month they can be dealt within a year so um this just kind of cleans it up and um to bring us in compliance with with the new law as was laid down by the 11 circuit and I know council member Horton had added on which the reason this was pulled off of consent um council member Horton had added on a um uh a citizen input um uh item that he had uh uh um put together um in part based upon uh how the school board does it and I mean I I don't I can turn it over to council member Hort or I'm sorry vice mayor Horton to um uh to discuss that more if he would have like as well but I'm here for any questions can you summarize what the changes for yeah it's it's really yeah I did give you a red line but just in summary um historically the the law has allowed or allowed restrictions that um comments cannot be directed to any individual council member it has to be directed to the council as a whole coun discussions have to go through the mayor from public comment and there are uh restrictions on uh Pro F indecent or obscene language um the issues with the issue the changes as it relates to uh discussions about individual council members are to remove the hard restriction it's a request now um that they do that and then the the changes as it relates to profane andent obsteen language is to just is to add a footnote the issue in the the appell at court was that those weren't defined so this adds a footnote stating that the terms are defined in accordance with prevailing law or if undefined um pursuant to the common dictionary definition um and I did it that way because you know as the law of what's considered profane and and indecent is constantly changing and if we Define it one way and and then this law comes out and they Define it another way I didn't want to have to keep coming back and bringing changes to you this way our Council procedures modify to the extent the courts change those definitions they will just modify with that automatically so we wouldn't have to keep bringing it back back um I don't hopefully there's no no significant changes on the horizon but you never know what's in the pipeline in the court system it's just cleaning up the legal ease exactly yeah okay uh do we take public comment on this uh yes there would be public com is there any public comment Miss Marne yes ma'am uh starting with Van Cadenhead and Caden head Al Mara uh as usual I'm fighting for more public comment and more uh participation by the people of Isa marada and I'm just hoping that uh this this uh reinforcement of the public comment I mean we've had public comment for 25 years here and we haven't had need for this resolution and I just I just wonder why uh it comes to the Forefront now and uh it's sounds like it's trying to tighten up on I mean I I haven't ever said anything I'm seen that I aware of but that could change because I'm just uh I'm I'm becoming increasingly frustrated with the the uh lack of acceptance of public comment from the public on on various items that are high dollar items high that that are very uh instrumental in in the running of this Village and and they're put into uh mayor counsel consideration or mayor loyer consideration or someplace that the people have no uh ability to have public comment and uh to me that that's what's really have seen is the fact that the people are being U sidelined and and marginalized and pushed out and made apathetic by the fact that they're being beat back by the the people who who are the powers that be that want to have a specific agenda and they don't want to hear any con any contrary opinions and to me uh if this uh serves to tighten down the screws on the public then I'm not for it and I hope you vote against it and I hope you resist it but I mean if it all depends on Mr Quick said that it all depends on the uh how it's going to be reheard it's being appealed or whatever but uh I urge you to to listen to the public there's a lot of really smart people in this Village and a lot of them have stood up here uh in front of me and behind me over the years and a lot of them have been sidelined and marginalized and ridiculed and uh made light of uh and I don't think that has any place in in a representative democracy thank you very much thank you van Marney next up is Joe wishme yes Joe wishm Plantation key of course I'm I'm always for more public comment and you know I've been stressing for years now I think that when you do public comment before the council even discusses an item that would change some of our thoughts or some of the things that we would like to comment on so one of the things I would like to suggest is that when youall are going to discuss an item you discuss it before you take the public comment so that we're better informed on what you're thinking of so that we can give you better ideas as to what it comes about as far as the one aspect that Mr Horton wanted to put in that anybody any group anybody uh representing a group must must present a written evidence of their authority to speak for that group at every single Council meeting well first of all I don't know how you're going to know where that letter came from or how you're going to figure out in all the years we haven't had that many people that actually take the five minutes Mr Horton you I've seen you up here many times it took the took the five minutes okay now tonight's another great example we just sat here for another hour and a half and listened to the same meeting that we listened to last month yet you know we're still talking about three or five minutes every every now and then so please do not take away anything that we are trying to do and that we are trying to do better and like I say after you discuss an item that would be the time for public comment thank you thank you Marney next is Sue Miller Sue Miller Laura mumby I'll wait until buddy wakes up um this this whole procedure has been very frustrating to me from the beginning we went 20 years without having any meeting procedure and everything seemed to go smoothly and now we have these meeting procedures it used to be that we could talk at any in the agenda now there's only specific things were allowed to um have public comment for and and it looks like um you're making every effort to control um the public and the public participation and um I Heard uh one of you say that at a workshop there were 17 people there and we hope in the future to get 200 the reason that there aren't more people here now is because you've discouraged the public from participating and um and I think that you should look look at it from the point of view of encouraging instead of discouraging and um the the thing that really um bothers me happened again tonight is that if the procedures don't work for you you wave them if they don't work for us we just have to sit quietly and pray that the next time you'll listen to us thank you thanks Sue Marney anybody else no ma'am okay public comment is now closed uh council do you want to have a discussion on this I'd be happy to okay go ahead I this this document is not a brand new document this is an actual plagiarism of the document that is at every school board meeting and um and and the school board meetings run well I've been to many of them and they run very well um I think that if you look at this document for the 99% of it where it says Village or Council was swapped with school board or board or councel and I just felt that there should be as many meetings as I've been to in the village there should be um a procedure and I think that's important I think procedures are important and I know that change is not easy um but I wanted to make sure that this simple document started off by something that I firmly believe in and that the village should welcome and encourage citizen inert and recognize that public involvement is crucial to the success of the village and so so I don't think it's an unfair document as I said it's plagiarized right from the Monro County School Board and has been in the process at that school board for a very long time and if there's not a process there should be just the same as I asked of Staff tonight when they tell me what things cost I think it's important to know what things cost and that's the only reason why I added this on here because it was part of council procedures that's all you want like to go yeah go ahead I i' just like to say that we have the two councils that I sit on Sat on before this we had put protocols and procedures in place Sharon was on one of those too but you can't you you can't you you got to follow the protocol all the meetings that I've been in South Florida Water Management Miss Miller knows cuz you've been there all these people they cut the mic off at 3 minutes or 2 minutes whatever it is there's there's but but and there's got to be procedure and and it's got to be fair for all what's good for the goose is good for the gander but you know what then all of a sudden we just start we don't follow our own procedure we just go it's it happen to me and the blame comes on me because other people Council people say let them you know let's talk but we have protocol for a reason we have procedures or standard operating procedure for a reason and you know what as long as I've been coming to Village meetings ever since the village has been Incorporated I've never seen anybody get denied their three minutes at that mic and I've been coming to the meeting since the village has been Incorporated many many many many meetings some nights I know the public would went until midnight but so I think and and if you get you know three minutes and you got however many people on each tab you're going You're it's going to be a while so but we have a right I mean I'm saying we the citizens not as a councel I'm saying we have we we want y all to speak and and you get three minutes I don't understand it why sometimes you people want to keep complaining about no public comment cuz we go through public comment every meeting right Sharon I mean how you said on it for two years did you did we ever deny anybody their three minutes nope okay thank you um Deb do you want to Steve either one of you y yes go ahead Steve so I guess um just uh to clarify for this resolution if we approve that approves everything the legal ease and then also the additional uh whereas what starts citizen input is that where that that added on is actually and I was going to clarify that because the the way I had drafted the resolution was just to approve the procedures and that and that's how it's currently drafted if you if the if Council wants to approve the um the citizen citizen input document as well it would be uh you need to amend the resolution so it would be a motion to approve the resolution um with the amendment to include approval of the the citizen uh input document which we would then attach as exhibit B to the res Solutions okay so thank you today I don't I don't really have um I don't really have an issue with the legal e and and the changes and all that I I think that we just need to keep um an understanding that you know this is ISA marada and and we're we got a bunch of cooks here and and I welcome them all to the podium and so while I I totally understand what you're saying buddy and I I I I'm all for that uh we we need to have some leeway and I think that's what Madame mayor is going to be able to do so to sort of formalize it like this I think maybe without discussion and input might be a little premature I it's nothing I disagree in here I just think I I'd like to have a chance to maybe come up with some ideas and have public input on this you know that what I was going to say is I don't know who I asked was it either Rob or John was because I keep hearing like Mr wishm always saying why can't we do public comment after you guys's discussion is that is that something we should look into I like that yeah is that would that make you happy I like there's a a bunch of times when the the the discussion was going and and we've been afforded that so I like that John can that be changed I mean is that normal it it could it's not normal I've seen other cities try it and then go back because the downside is that when you all are discussing it you have you don't don't have the benefit of what the citizens say so you've discussed it then you turn it over to this to the citizens for public comment they've heard what you say and they talk about it but then when it gets back to the council you all are voting and you're not discussing again what um unless you add a a second discussion time for each one so i' I've seen some do it but they they usually go back because of that well I see Rob shaking his head no but I mean is it something anybody up here has an appetite to try just to see or I mean have go ahead Deb we used to do that when I was on Council before back in the old days back in the old days the old days um there's good points and bad points it's exactly what yeah what they were saying is you have the discussion the public gets to hear what you're saying and then they have their comments and then you end up with a second discussion you end up with a second discussion if you do it that way I'm just telling you I'm not saying it's a bad I'm just saying that's the that's what happened as you had a second discussion what I would like to encourage is the people call or contact the council prior to the meeting so that they have thoughts on where you're going or where I'm going or where both of us are going because they can call you and they can call me yeah you know yeah um you know so let's approve the the the red line changes and then we can have this discussion later in terms of how we want to proceed if we want to entertain that for a while and see how it goes or you know whatever we well you know one thing Don you know I know the school board but the school boards for Monroe County we got to recognize the fact that the village is 7,000 people and we have people who same people who show up every week and so you know we do have to have guidelines I'm I'm sorry I'm big on that too what I don't want to happen to me is for somebody in the audience in a yellow shirt to yell out comment comment to me like you did to buddy so that's why we do have to have procedures and rules so but I think there should be some leeway and I agree with Steve that you know let's sort of try some different things and mold it as we go I mean you you still have the you you'll still have the you you're the chair you're the I mean you know these are oh sure these are they are I mean really they're it's it it's just a it's just a guideline it's it's as I said it's nothing it it's just a guideline and it's not something that's new it's been it's been it's it's as I said it's PL your eyes from there I just feel like the that I I think I heard a councilman a long time ago say that you know the they're not Council meetings are not workshops they're not Council meetings are to do the business of of the village they're a business meeting and so they you know in some fashion there should be some formality to it um and so I mean I don't think there's anything in here as I said the first paragraph talks of how important and how we should encourage citizen input and I firmly believe that because I've been to that Podium many many times in year and I I I think it's important to be able to do that I mean as Sue knows I built that Podium so that people could stand at that Podium and talk to this group back in 2000 gave it to the Village so it's very nice thank you and it's all Native Hardwoods but but I mean I just thought that this would it's a simple to to kind of formalize it it's it's okay one way or the other you you have the discretion even if we approve this you have the discretion if you feel something and you feel like some some item we're dealing with is then you can you have the right to let people speak longer or you know more people or more times or whatever okay all right so how do you want to approach this go ahead well I got one other suggestion because it's been a constant um question that the public doesn't get to to comment on the the first half of the meetings not half but the first part of the meeting what happened this is this idea what happened s if we move general public comment down the list so that it falls um after Village attorney Village manager communication and before consent agenda so that because it's not on the agenda so that the people can comment they only get one three minute period but they could comment on anything that happened above that whether that be uh presentations whether that be Council Communications uh something that the manager brought up it's it's it's actually allowing more public comment uh but we still have it's the same category it's called public comment but it's moved down so that they have more opportunity to do that try it and see um but I would still prefer to leave the uh public comment at the beginning of the the items if we're going to do individuals do we need to take hand on that John well what I would do if if you want to do that it would be a motion to approve the resolution with an amendment that um the order of business move public comment to after uh Village attorney Village manager Communications and then we can make that change um um what if it's approved and when were uh before the resolution signed everybody okay with that and let me verify that how is it written on public comment at the beginning of a tabbed item is that after we read the title but at the beginning we have public comment that I just need to verify that I didn't go find it instead of changing it to I said after so oh it doesn't specify in in it I was just looking to see if it's specified whether it's before Council discussion or after I didn't see that it was specified in there it was just that that's how we we've done it um if if I missed it I apologize but I went through the I thought I thought at the last meetings I thought at the last meetings um that you guys were doing public comment at the beginning of the tabbed items like tab five you'd read the title and then you'd have public comment and then you'd have discussion yeah I might have done it wrong it's probably me I did it wrong we did we did yeah for no no I'm not picking on you is what you did see for general public comment there's just general public comment and then when we get to each of the individual then we get to consent and we have the one on the entire public comment on the entire consent and then when we get to the individual tabs whether it's ordinances resolutions or motions then it would go yeah it would go first with with each tab okay yes so are we good with everything okay my question is do we still the thing we passed uh when Brian Cook was here where we they have to turn their the the P the their their cards in to speak before the tab begins that's still in your Council procedures yes okay and if you read this document that that that John did that the resolution much of what is on the citizen input here is already in all of this um yes very much of I think so what this just puts it in rather than having to go through the 16 Pages this makes it it's just all of this is right here one idea on the citizen input um um is is if it's just going to be a summary of the council procedures which is what I think it's it's designed as yes I don't think it necessarily needs to be approved by Council the council could ask the manager and the clerk and I mean obviously I work with them too to put together a summary a one-page summary to make it easier for the public and it's just it's based on everything you all have already approved so as as long as we stick to that which we would I don't even think it would need to come back um for your approval because it's literally just a summary for for ease of reader ease of readers what this actually is in here all of this I a summary of that that would be good sorry my turn yeah go ahead talk uh so in the summary um did in in the corrections to the ordinance somehow I missed part of this when I was reading my book this month um the one where it talks about that a council person should not be called out individually is that in the new procedures because it's not I would like to in the summary tag on to this one uh or put it in the new one that it adds that um at the podium no one single council person should be called out that it should be addressed as a team not necessarily as an individual that's what I the new procedur say yeah it requests that that it it it take place that way okay there okay so are we good doing a summary yeah we're going to them to do okay so just in terms of a motion there was a discussion about a change on the day so if if that change in the procedure wants to be changed which was moving public comment um after Village attorney Village manager Communications I would just ask that the motion be a motion to approve with that amendment to be made or if you don't want to then it would just be uh you you wouldn't have to deal with that okay everybody understand and anything else do I are we all in agreement that we want that Amendment or we don't want that Amendment were you not listening well you would be part of the motion and then you all all could vote would vote on listening yeah it's he's going to do one page summary for I I understand what he said but I didn't know whether if we're going to do it we have to include it but I mean is I don't know what the consensus of the Council on the one item is what he's on the yeah that item because Steve was talking about on moving the the you were talking about but not that item that's the way I understood it no no no okay it was the it was the addendum addendum okay yeah yeah yeah that one's fine and I think we can also we don't even need to have the caveat that if if that's not working out we can discuss and change of back to what we did tonight yeah you can always bring it back do we need a vote or we good yeah it would be uh it would be a motion to approve the resolution with the amendment that um on page four public comment be moved um from its current location to after Village attorney Village manager Communications so do we have a motion I'll make that motion second I'll second Marne would you please call the role hey council member GIS yes vice mayor Don yes council member Steve fredman yes council member buddy vender yes and mayor Sharon Mahoney yes motion passes 5 to zero okay before everybody gets up and leaves um um we have no meeting on Thursday correct okay just want to make sure and Marney what about the email you sent all of us about the pictures on Sunday or Monday and I said why can't we do it Tuesday or Thursday does how did how did that go so I know uh well um it's kind of a split decision several of you are fine with either day one would like the eth one would like the 9th um and now that you have the executive session scheduled at 4:00 on the 10th I don't think the photographer was available that day anyways so should we deci is the night the eth is Sunday the 9th is Monday I don't want to do it on Sunday I'd rather do it on a Monday fine with that yeah that's what I said I said time and where um she would like to do it again down on the beach well why can't we do it in a room and airbrush us why is she put out in the sun you can do whatever you want no I'm just kidding I'm just kidding you tell me what you want and we'll get her to do it K so what time and where um I will'll firm it up with her but she likes to do it in the hour before Sunset okay down on the beach everybody got that the hour before Sunset so you'll give us a tighter time frame on that she will tell yeah she'll tell me what time to to get people here December you got that in your so are we all done and we're good on Monday is that what I'm understanding Monday the 9 I guess so okay thank you okay meeting adjourned yep thank you night for