##VIDEO ID:UywB0M8k0VY## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e call meeting order uh call this meeting to order Marty would you call the rooll please member Mark Greg here but not for long council member Elizabeth Jolan here council member Henry Rosenthal yes vice mayor Sharon Mahoney here and mayor buddy Pender here we have a quorum all right oh okay uh T I've asked Ty if he'd lead us in the pledge Al flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands under God indivisible with liy Justice for All all right hey Taylor young man would you mind leading us in a a quick prayer can can you do that come on up to the podium if you don't mind sorry I didn't mean to put you on a spot but I just he's trying to think what he's going to say now that's exactly what I'm doing hey just say something quick short and sweet man just um pause and give you thanks for this day and for sparing us in this recent storm that went by our hearts go out to people who were affected and uh let this Council go as meeting go as smooth as we can amen amen thank you Taylor thank you okay all right uh so any uh deletions or additions anybody have anything no okay all right public comment Marne do we have anybody signed up for general public comment we do uh van Kad Don Horton and Sue Miller okay Su Miller lower matacumbe in recent years many people in Alam marada have worried about the direction of our community many believe we need change it is an Engaged and informed community that leads to change starting with the November elections too often we listen to campaign promises and are fold fold we look at our ballots and perhaps vote for the most familiar name without thinking about why the name was familiar or we vote in alphabetical order or we don't know enough and just leave the Village Council portion of the ballot blank if we're going to get real change we need to elect honest compassionate C candidates with Integrity who care about all the people candidates that study and understand the village issues and concerns those that engage the community listen to them and vote regularly remembering what will best help Alam marat's long-term Vision with no personal agendas tonight we will lose three valued members of the council they have spent endless amount of personal time to study the lengthy agendas ask questions listen and vote accordingly sometimes I wasn't happy with the way they voted on issues that are near and dear to me but I am so very sorry to see them step down they worked diligently for our community they worked to make ala marada better often surely Str surely they were Str frustrated with the lack of progress they tried their best to fix what is broken our community will miss their experience wisdom and contributions to our local government efforts I hope we will see them continue to work with future councils to help make our community better and to facilitate the mission they began when elected thank you Henry Elizabeth and mark thank you good evening Council I'm van Cadenhead I'd like to reiterate what uh Mrs Miller just said about the three of you who are departing we spent a lot of time in this room together in trying to fix the things that are wrong with Isam Mara and we didn't always agree but we always had the the north star of uh the sport fishing capital of the world ahead of us and we were trying to fix that and uh along that line uh I would just like to suggest that uh rather than than putting uh consent agenda items that uh involve more than $25,000 worth of taxpayers money on the uh agenda not to be discussed I would like them to be able to be discussed if they were more than $225,000 because we've had numerous items that were put on the consent agenda that were Big Ticket items were very important that uh uh just at at the last meeting the fdot presentation we had to fight to have public comment and it was It was obviously a very important local issue that uh we had uh uh two members of fdot on the zoom that could hear uh you know they they said oh we want so much public uh input and then we were denied to have public input well we finally got it and I I thank you for that that for uh giving us a consensus to speak and I have gotten a lot of uh uh feedback from what was said about the fdot and and it wouldn't have been said unless we'd had public unless we had that public comment so uh public common is very important and also it's it's very important to include the public in decisions the of items on the consent agenda that are above $25,000 I mean you've had hundreds of thousands of dollars on an agenda item and just put it on the the uh consent agenda that doesn't wash that's not good we need to have discussion we need to be able to have discussion we need to have be you know be able to pull it and not just a council member pull it but have a member of the audience that wants to discuss it pull it so uh I hope you'll take that into consideration and thank you very much and uh I'm waiting eagerly to see the next Council bye-bye next thank you mayor for the recm Don Horton and I just want to thank the council that's sitting here tonight in your last council meeting I want to thank sue for the kind comments about people that are running for election and hope people pay attention to what she said because she uh uh actually described me as a tea and I hope that uh and and I uh uh and I certainly hope that uh you guys uh are proud of the some of the decisions you made and and I'm thankful for your service thank you thank you Don okay anybody else Marne yes we have Mr wishm on Zoom okay okay go ahead Mr wishm you got three minutes much Joe wishm Plantation key again I would like to uh reiterate comments of Sue Miller and thanking the council members for putting their time and due diligence into decisions that they made like I said on Tuesday even though we may not have agreed on all the decisions I appreciate the time and effort that was put into it I certainly hope and look forward to the next Council that we do more public comment because of the fact that I also know what van said and we've had a lot of trouble trying to get public comment we've had some issues that come up in millions of dollars not just thousands but millions of dollars on the consent agenda so I certainly hope we get a chance to deal with that and the last thing is look at the most recent hurricanes that we've had and how quickly they escalated can you imagine evacuation from the keys from Key West all the way to at least Homestead then who knows where we go from there so I hope you consider that when you're talking about the rogo permits that you're going to discuss later on this evening so please consider everything and safety is our number one concern thank you very much thank you Mar anybody else no sir okay public comment is now closed all right Council we are going to move on to mayor council Communications anybody have anything no okay all right Village attorney Village manager Communications go ahead Mr Cole thank you mayor I'd just like to thank our uh first repond responder team and the balance offer staff Public Works and administrative Personnel who helped uh monit the progress for Hurricane Milton and make sure that our community was uh prepared to respond uh we are blessed that uh uh it was only a glancing uh impact to ISA marada and and our hearts and prayers go with those further north that were more severely impacted but again um most uh importantly I want to thank our staff for their efforts through this event thank you thank you yeah I heard about a mobile home part for elders that some tornadoes went through or maybe did you did you tell me that this morning in Port St Lucy yes sir I did okay that's what I thought okay John do you have anything no I mean I just I Echo what what Rob said and you know thank the First Responders obviously our our thoughts and prayers are with our our brothers and sisters up in the northern part in the central part of the state um and um you know we we were lucky down here and um you know are you know if they if they need anything obviously you know they they know how they know who to call and who to reach out to um and just as a matter of personal privilege I wanted to uh thank you all I know that we have three council members who uh this will be their last meeting or the last regularly scheduled meeting uh I wanted to thank you all for the opportunity to get a chance to work with you uh it has truly been a pleasure to uh to work with this Council and um I look forward to continuing this meeting thank you John all right so let's move on then to resolutions uh so John a tab a tab a is a resolution of the Village Council viar Village of violence Florida approving an agreement pursuant to RFP 24-10 for the comprehensive Plan update authorizing Village manager to execute the agreement authorizing The Village manager to expend budgeted funds and providing for an effective date Jennifer we can do public comment first whatever you uh would prefer it's the council's pleasure if you want me to just do a brief description or if you want to have a public comment it's up to you okay let's do public comment is that all right with everybody we do public comment now maybe we should discuss it so they know what they're commenting on that would be helpful okay Mark yes that's good you're good okay all right so Jennifer go ahead sure uh thank you Council this is a followup to the decision you made um in September regarding approving able City East as the vendor for our comprehensive Plan update this is the award of the agreement with um able City East to do that work for us uh the proposed uh cost for the project is $112,000 this cost would include the uh update to the comprehensive plan as well as Land Development regulations the project costs would be coming out of the Planning Development Services Department Professional Service expenditures which come from the general fund um and is revenue from the adval property taxes this project has been budgeted for 2020 2425 uh in budget um at this time um I can go through all of the previous discussion we've had about these proposals but I think we've exhausted those so I don't think we have to do that but I'm happy to have answer any other questions you have about able able city east and the project itself but at this time we would recommend that you adopt the resolution and allow the manager to sign the form of agreement thank you Jenifer Council anybody have any questions for Jennifer no okay all right let's go ahead and open public comments then Marne okay we have van Caden head Ty Harris and Don Horton good evening again I'm van Cadenhead um I would urge you to sign this contract I really like these people and I think uh you like these people and they seem to have some really good ideas for Isa marada we need a a SE change in what's going on here this needs to be a pivotal uh comprehensive plan revamp and the ldrs uh any we don't need to scrap the whole thing you don't want to throw at the baby with the bath water we've got a lot of good stuff in the comp plan and the ldrs the that but things need to be tweaked after such a long time and we have a different situation than we had when we were Incorporated so uh I welcome uh some fresh eyes and some fresh brains and and some different experiences to come in here and and uh make this better for Isa marata because what we're doing uh when you sign that contract years so uh I think we've we've chosen some good people to do it I urge you to uh let Mr Cole sign the contract and thank you very much for coming to this decision and this uh company because uh I look forward to to seeing what they can do with ala marada thank you thank you very much thank you who's next Mar I was mistaken Ty doesn't want to speak at this time so next up is Don Horton and then Mr Bush Meer is on Zoom again Don Horton 47 scooner Bay Road the all of the decisions that y'all have made through the the entire two-year process and I know that I've talked to at least four of you about this decision you're going to make tonight and I'm so thankful that you picked the right company and um and I am very thankful that we're moving on with a new comprehensive plan Land Development regulations a strategic plan those are all something that we absolutely must have and an update on our comp plan and I believe this company is going to bring good Innovative fresh ideas and I'm very hopeful for a lot of public input and uh some good things that can come to this thank you thank you Don Marne Mr wishm yep Mr wishm okay go ahead Mr wishme you've got three minutes thank you very much Joe wishme Plantation key this is just another example of trying to do public comment before we hear anything that the council has to say so therefore some of our remarks cannot be related to what is actually going on I do recommend that you pass this because able East is a very good company and I hope that you pass this resolution and I hope in the future that you will please do some discussion before we do public comment so we are more well informed on what we're talking about thank you thank you Marty we have anybody else we do not no okay sue you didn't want to speak on that okay all right all right public comment is now closed uh council do I we have any further discussion do I hear a motion I have discussion okay I I looked through the contract and I didn't see anything that was binding as to what they were going to do there was no specific time limit on anything as to what they were going to do for example the ldr is kind of an add-on it should have been in the contract uh and you're looking to up Zone you know everybody that came forward with a proposal I could work with anybody but the fact is because I pay attention as to what triggers your emotions and your yes votes and your no votes vot and the one thing and I said it at the meeting the one thing that you all shared I mean everybody was the fact they the company that you chose showed a great degree of enthusiasm as being part of this Alam marada the enthusiasm was was shared by everybody but there was no content to be shared it was just the enthusiasm so I guess I'm going to tell you in the future there is no future except for the mayor and and and the vice mayor but the content is very important besides the theatrics of The Proposal so therefore I mean I'm not going to be here to work with them but your decision should not be based on their enthusiasm is being part of alam Morado I just have to say it I said it before I said it again I assume that the 112,000 will be appropriately in the budget but there are some things that should be in this proposal not a proposal in the contract that says we're going to do this that and the other I couldn't find anything like that so maybe Mr Mary you should take another look as to the contract and uh that would make me happy if you did I'm not suggesting you do it right away but I think there's some things that should be included in the contract you meant to say manager you said mayor oh did I say mayor I don't know if he could read he was looking at me though so I I gathered he was speaking to me I'm sorry anyway that's that's my observation I just have to make that just have to say what's on my mind so thank you and I'm sorry I misspoke go ahead Elizabeth yeah um Henry I don't know if you were looking at the online version of this um because I had a similar question the contract references an exhibit a and an exhibit B but there was no exhibit A and B um I think it was a and please um if you can um Mr Cole correct me if I'm wrong but um I think it was a clerical or I don't want to say a whatever an error um in the way we're labing labeling this so exhibit a is actually um now reflecting in the online version where exhibit a is the proposal that they submitted exhibit B is the timeline that they submitted so it's labeled appropriate and and presumably the contract is referencing those two exhibits that are now labeled in our online document documentation is that correct yes so I I think that that you're question was um appropriate I had the same one but I think it was corrected okay okay any further comment right do I hear a motion Oh Henry I like them I'd like them from the get-go whether he was enthusiastic or not I liked him and I think I'm a pretty good read of people as well and I think we picked the right company so I move to approve second thank you all right Marne we have a motion in a second would you call the role please vice mayor Sharon Mahoney yes council member Mark Greg yes council member Elizabeth Jolan yes council member Henry Rosenthal I'll say no just to back up what I what I said that's all really and mayor buddy Pender yes he that motion passes 4 to one okay we are on to tab B tab B is a resolution of the Village Council V Village of violence Florida providing a recommendation to the Mono County bard of County Commissioners regarding the number of additional residential building permit allocations The Village would like to receive in potential future allocations providing for transmittal of this resolution to certain people within the county Jennifer good evening how is everyone today great great so um we are going to talk about future Vass allocations um as you may remember um we back in April we presented a timeline of this process to the council and um it was to culminate at this meeting um with a presentation and a recommendation so I'm going to go through a a small PowerPoint to show you sort of some of the general background and how we got here why we're doing what we're doing and then culminate in our recommendation and then we can have a question answer discussion kind of thing if you prefer so I gave everyone of the council a handout of the PowerPoint so have that in front of you as well so moving forward so the first question what is be pass because I'm sure we use that term a lot but some people don't know what it is and I heard throughout the summer when we were doing the community engagement that we were using terms that weren't understandable to people and stuff so I wanted to make sure it was clear to everybody what we were talking about B pass is our building permit allocation system it's defined in division 30-4 11 of the village code it is the way we issue building permits for all new construction in the village because we are in an area of critical State concern all building permits that come into the village are scored and based on criteria that are in our Land Development regulations and then based on those scores all the permits are ranked and placed on what we call the B pass list every quarter we publish that list and then based on that list when we have allocation available quarterly the council will issue permits based on the score on that list the higher the score the more likely you are to get a permit so that's what bass basically is in 2002 The Village adopted a bass ordinance with an original number of 302 allocations and in 2012 the Department of econom Economic Opportunity which is now the Department of Commerce completed a hurricane evacuation clearance modeling and to maintain a 24-hour evacuation time Isa marada received an additional 263 allocations for a total of 5 565 allocations and then in 20 2017 The Village entered into a 300 380 agreement with Deo Monroe County the cities of Q West Leighton and marathon in which the village received an additional 10.25 allocation now that agreement was basically Key West wanted to develop an affordable housing project outside their city limits in unincorporated Monroe and because of that they had to get permission from all the other jurisdictions and the agreement included giving the other jurisdictions additional units so that's where those 10.25 came from in 2017 in case there were some questions about where those came from what is our current bass situation so currently we have three market rate available we have 10 affordable available however eight of those were reserved by this Council for Village use we have 292 early evacuation affordable available and 165 of those were reserved by this Council for Village use we have 23 administrative relief available and we have 54 permits in the queue or on the bass list currently and this year the council approved a temporary moratorium on market rate bass applications which is set to expire in February on February 6 2025 now you had it for six months you extended it for the additional six months so that is the the outmost date that it will expire is February 6 2025 The Village Council has also approved a temporary moratorium on administrative relief applications currently that is with the Department of Commerce for their review um they have not got back to us yet on their approval on that we're expected to hear from them no later than October 18th So currently if someone were to apply for administrative relief we would accept that application because the moratorium is not in place until the Department of Commerce approves it but once they approve it that will go into place for six months all right the 2023 last fall the department of of Commerce formerly Deo and the division of Emergency Management updated the hurricane evacuation modeling that they did back in 2012 based and they based it on the new 2020 census data and other relevant data so this chart here came from that report that they did last fall in 2023 and then earlier this year the state legislature agreed to include Key West in the modeling and that mobile hom should be included in phase one so if you're looking at the uh chart this column right here where it says Florida Keys including Key West and mobile homes in phase one so it's with the numbers it's the second column over that's the one that we will be looking at because that's the one that the legislature uh adopted for us or agreed to for us so those are the numbers that we're looking at for Hurricane evacuation why are we having this discussion and what have we done to prepare for this discussion tonight so there's as you may know there's an ongoing countywide rogo be pass discussion back in the early part of the year when the after the hurricane modeling was updated there was a group of uh the managers got together and some people not me decided that the discussion was going to be led by County and so back in March Monroe County kicked off their part of the process uh they had a meeting in um March at in their kilargo building uh was attended by myself uh was attended by Mr Cole I believe that was one of his first weeks here if not his first week here um that he attended as well and you know we heard a lot of good information from them at that point but at that time we decided that we wanted to have Isa marada inform the county about our decision or our wants and needs while they're making their decision for the countywide decision so the bccc will make its decision at its December meeting and again we wanted the to inform the BCC before a decision is made of preference regarding allocations so what were the questions we wanted to answer do we want more allocations that was the first one if yes how many and kind market rate affordable or both and what considerations were we looking at we looked at infrastructure we looked at environmental considerations we looked at traffic and we looked at potential takings liabilities so those are some of the considerations that we included what has been the village process to date so first uh early on the planning staff undertook a vacant parcel analysis the initial analysis shows 178 vacant residential parcels and just to sort of uh talk about that a little bit more the following criteria was used in the vacant parcel analysis all the Lots in that analysis are residentially zoned they meet a minimum square footage size for residential lot development and they're considered vacant according to Monroe County property appraiser as of 2022 now there's some additional scrubbing that needs to be done on those lots some may have other beneficial use that we haven't looked looked at some may be uh uh uh budding uh joining property that is owned by the same owner that could be you know unified to avoid uh takings claims so we haven't dug that deep into those lots so right now we're looking at the number of 178 vacant Parcels as the number of the top the highest number it could be less but that's our highest number at the moment we also held two workshops over the summer uh one on July 30th that was tended by 24 people and one on August 28th that was attended by 26 people the one on July 30th was a general overview of bass and sort of a general discussion of but what we were looking to do and what were people's General thoughts the one in August 28th was a little bit more specific we included presentations by Weiss serota um somebody really great from John's firm on takings um and then we had an infrastructure presentation by our review engineer Robert Mather and an environmental presentation by our biologist Daniel parach as well um and that was attended Again by 26 people we created two surveys for Village residents uh each survey had just under 400 participants or respondents um the first survey was more demographic and to get a feel for the kind of people that would be answering the survey and then the second Sur survey had more specific questions about bass and asking people their preferences and thoughts and finally we received 11 emails from residents uh with comments and questions um or not questions but comments about the process and whether or not they felt more allocations would be a good thing or not Jennifer can I ask you a question how many people were were emailed that this was going on um so we every time we did something we posted it on all of our socials Rob would put it in his weekly manager newsletter uh we would go on the website the chamber put out Blast for us I attended a chamber meeting and made an a a sort of a mini presentation announcement to them there um so we tried to get it out to as many uh places as we could could okay so just a little bit on the survey feedback um Community feedback from the survey 63.3% of survey takers voted in favor of some allocations and 66.9% would rather use additional bass allocations for takings liabilities over the alternative use of tax increase majority of survey takers supported a mixture of market rate affordable and Workforce housing and obviously the top two concerns were traffic in the environment which was not surprising at all and then in the 11 emails that we received um eight residents emailed stating they wanted no more development at all one specifically asked the village to secure additional allocations one ask for a balance consideration and one consider ask that we consider all impacts so moving on to staff recommendation when we looked at all of the information and we took into consideration the presentations done by Weiss the RO on takings liabilities and on the infrastructure and the ability of our infrastructure to handle uh additional uh allocations and the environment and the current environmental regulations we have that protect the environment it's staff's recommendation that we would recommend that the council requests an additional 250 allocations for Island marada these 250 allocations would cover the 54 on the bass list currently plus 178 from the vacant parcel analysis and if you do math quickly in your head I know that's a little bit less than 250 but that gives us an extra 18 I believe it was as a cushion um all of these numbers are done by humans people in my office and we're not infallible and we make mistakes and some of these calculations could be off by one or two so we just wanted a little bit of a cushion to make sure that we covered ourselves in all of our bases um I know that some people will say that it's too many we shouldn't have any I just want people to understand that you you know this is what we're looking at for Island marada the county is still looking at their number and what they're going to ask for countywide so if we say we want zero in Isa marada that doesn't mean the Count's going to say they want zero countywide and they're going to give them to kilargo they're going to give them to Marathon and the impacts may still impact Isam marada the traffic's still going to come through Isam marada the environment is still going to be impacted if we get a portion of those we can mitigate what we can mitigate in our community and we will get the benefit of a some taxes in the community as well so we tried to balance as best we could and that's the recommendation that we would go with so having said that if there's any questions I'm happy to answer them anybody have any questions all right let's uh open public comment Marne okay we have Ty Harris van Cadenhead S Miller Susan rapanello oh sorry good evening Ty Harris 110 Plantation Shores Boulevard um I attended both of those B pass workshops and if you think that not taking 250 is going to increase or or make our traffic better in the future you're wrong because what's going to happen is the County's just going to take those 250 and put some to the south of you and some to the north it's not going to be a loss of 250 into the county it's just going to be 250 distributed in the county just not in Al marada which then leaves you with a horrible takings problem I you heard the the numbers you got 54 in B pass right now that have you dead to rights because you approve these for a building they've got building permits pending then you've got another 178 out they're floating around that may or may not at different times um come in and ask for a permit and then when they're denied then we'll be looking at another takings claim um having those in your back pocket gives you the flexibility to address those situations as they come up and remember these units don't come allocated a certain way they're building rights they're not like the 300 early outs you can put some of these to Workforce you can put them to Affordable you can use them any way you want you guys are the ones that decide that so it's the ultimate um guarantee that you have flexibility to address problems in the future and you can slow growth these things out there's nothing that requires you to give out 20 a year give 10 a year whatever that number is that you feel uh prevents that that event horizon of hitting the the takings you know wall that's what you're trying to avoid and that's what as a tax paper taxpayer I would urge you to avoid because I really don't want to pay any more in taxes that I'm already paying thank you very much next Marney next is Van Caden head van Cadenhead uh I attended those two meetings along with Mr Harris and uh we watched a fdot presentation about the ISA marada bottle NE and uh they didn't want to discuss anything above Isam marada or below Isam marada they they didn't want to discuss Alam marada at all and I think that we are overbuilt at this particular point and the most I would go is if we have 54 people in the queue uh we could ask for 55 permits but the 178 are are the planning director said was the high number and uh the the Weiss serota takings expert that was at those meetings that Mr Harris and I attended and and we all attended uh said that 99% of the appeals of the takings cases never made it to court because they were just uh too uh cumbersome and expensive and the people uh lost the appeals so I think that's a scare number that's a scare tactic those 178 there's not 178 people going to be suing Isam marada because they didn't get to build a lot of those are are going to be disqualified because they bought after they should have known they didn't exercise due diligence or they did exercise due diligence and decided they' gouge Isam marada because uh they would have a permit or they would have something uh in the queue that could be uh used as in a lawsuit now we don't need if you can look at the at the traffic that we've got if you can look at the intensity and the density of the population of alamada and say that we need two she we're saying 250 more but we've got more in the bank so it's it's over 500 that we could conceivably have to build and we do not need that many more market rate uh affordable administrative relief anything in Alam Morada whatever we have that we have already uh set aside in administrative relief for uh the the early outs uh they can be used as as a uh legal U satisfaction of anyone with any kind of a takings claim or a or a complaint but uh as far as uh being sued by 178 people that's just scare numbers that's not going to happen and the lady from we seroa said that she said 99% of the people that appealed a takings claim failed they it did not happen so I I I I think that we should uh not behave like we're mentally deficient and and add five or 250 more people into this uh uh pot that's stirring and and we if we have 55 that are already committed and have permits perhaps we should accept 55 thank you very much next next up is Sue Miller I think all of our thoughts are with the people throughout Florida who just went through a major evacuation process to get out of Harm's Way perhaps the people of alam marid that are asking for 250 more bass allocations have been sleeping the last month as we struggle to protect our homes and families from disastrous hurricanes have we slept through the workshops on vulnerability and sea level rise I I just find it very difficult to believe that we still think that we should grow more in Alam marada since 2002 according to the statistics provided we had a total of 575 allocations given to us by the state since from 2002 to 2023 ignoring the 300 affordable which are additional we're now asking with the affordable and all the ones that we currently still have we're we're saying we need another 580 with the with what was in the plan that she presented plus 250 my math says that's 580 that aren't under construction yet when originally in 2002 we said we'd reach buildout at 575 and now we want another to build another 580 units we have critical life and safety issues unfolding before our eyes in Florida we have rapid intensification of storms the storms used to come off of Africa now they're coming from the Caribbean coming up coming here in just a matter of days we might not have 48 hours to send our affordable housing people the people that would normally be putting up the shutters um and we send them out and uh have to put up the shutters ourselves um it it's just amazing to me um we have watched over the last 20 years as our fragile environment has declined dramatically the traffic became intolerable the pipeline burst at as two 25 million gallons of putable water was just too much for a rusty old pipes and it will take us years to fix that I it's just amazing that we're here today to discuss 250 as a recommendation thank you he sure she took a 900 S F and built 5,000 next up is Susan rapanello yeah after 2017 After the Storm good evening Susan rafanello I'm also here a little bit um shrined at a couple of things uh that with respect to this analysis I agree with Sue Miller that 250 is an astronomical ask that plus those that are currently in our allocation system and remain are more than half again what the overall buildout was expected to be all of this seems to be driven by what for years I have said is the great takings myth everybody in Al marada has been conditioned for decades of I I dare to use the word misinformation um with respect to the potential liability for the takings myth the council communication is asking for a 100% plus those on bass plus a con a cushion plus those that already exist just in case and using the backbone of the potential takings as a justification for it but let's take a look at the 178 there was contained in the tabs not referenced today additional staff information about the vacant parcel analysis and if you look at the 178 and accept what the staff has indicated as true you really winow that down to six maybe six possible takings but what's more this analysis is flawed from the get-go and why do I say that because it does not analyze when these individual owners or families and we're not counting did a last free market arms length transaction on this property if it was bought after 1992 for the rogo allocations or Monroe or even being generous 2002 when the bass system came into place in Al marada it is not an economically backed expectation for these owners to be able to build period and a story there is no takings liability and business cannot run out of fear of litigation I'm a litigator I wish it did but that's not how business is supposed to work business runs litigation not vice versa and for decades it seems and now the rubber meets the road we've been conditioned that it should be the worst what is also astonishing to me are the numbers in the survey that get buried the question if the state were to allocate additional B pass in your opinion how many should Al marada accept nearly 37% 37% said none they said that believing based upon the survey that there were 220 potential liabilities for takings out there two 220 even with 220 potential liability takings out there 33% said we'd rather pay out of our taxes don't take more allocations we now know that it's a handful at most weot is correct they do not succeed why because there's no economically backed expectation for the vast majority of those we've asked for that analysis to be done I have for the last couple of years that analysis needs to be done before an informed decision can be made and for that reason I think you need to really take a hard look at the number that you request if any thank you anybody else Marne yep next up is Don thank you Don Horton 47 scooner Bay Road you know when this topic first came up I I think excuse me I think I was one of the first ones to come to this Podium and ask that you take them take them take them all I'm not saying you've got to use them all but certainly we can fix the the list that we have that are hanging in there that are in limbo right now and these folks that in good faith spent a lot of money a lot of time and have gone through the process and are sitting in that uh bass Q um as Tai said we don't have to allocate them at 20 a year or 10 a year um but if we don't take them the county is going to take them and they are going to go on and and be built somewhere else if you saw the traffic last week uh or week before when we don't have all of the tourists down here and they're all going to Marathon and and and point south of marathon when Marathon has 2 2499 more transient uses than we have it's very obvious that they're driving through there our local our local traffic is not as bad because they're not going down there right now so if we we look at the future and we start thinking about some inner city transportation and we move our people around and we get them off of the highway we're we're doing good for our community we can build more resilient homes we can build more energy efficient homes we can take care of these takings claims and if you don't think the takings claims actually happen I just recall not long ago somebody settling on the six lots for sojun and that settlement was done because they filed a takings claim and perhaps maybe of these things when they say these statements of and I'm not an attorney but when these things don't go to court maybe it's because they realize that they're going to lose in court the government realizes they're going to lose in court and so they settle and those settlements happen and we don't even know about them and nobody in this town probably knows that so got their six Lots from a lawsuit that happened many many years ago and the result of that was six Lots um because they filed a taking claim on that I recall a big a big lawsuit on the Bay Harbor community when Mr melli wasn't going to be able to build his condos down in lower matumi that went on for years and years and years when it was called Captain's Cove and what came out of that was Bay Harbor so I don't think that people that are standing up here and telling you that takings don't happen I've watched them happen in the keys for quite some time so anyway take these I not saying use them all but take them so that we've got them and don't lose taking claims thanks so much thank you anybody else Marne yes we have Mr wishme on Zoom okay M excuse me Mr wishme you've got three minutes yes thank you very much Joe wishme Plantation keep first of all you ought to consider why we've already made moratoriums because we don't think that we need anymore at the time being that's why we have made moratoriums second of all let's consider traffic forget evacuation just look at traffic on normal days not to mention holiday weekends or how you know it takes me an hour just to get from Taver to lower mumbi so therefore evacuation plans definitely are going to be misconstrued hurricanes in the last I mean look at what's happened to the West Coast how many hurricanes have gone from tropical storms to cat fives in no time at all so therefore we need to make sure that we don't consider ourselves in in into that now as far as the 178 vacant Lots you know considering takings and all like I said was Weiss serota said that most of them don't even get to court so therefore we shouldn't even bother taking them and as far as taking permits and saying well let's just keep them in the bank for later on well we've seen with this Council and maybe future councils just because you say well we'll take them but we won't use them that doesn't necessarily mean that they won't somebody will say oh well this person's been in here for so long or this person deserves it and so we'll go ahead and give it to them no we do not need to accept any more future permits and as far as buildout when we reached our buildout total from way back in early 2000s how can we be Beyond build out if we were at build out now how can we be accepting 500 and more per per mits so therefore I say do not accept any more permits and we'll see what happens later on thank you morning anybody else no sir okay public comment is now closed well I'd like to bring something up because you know people get up here and they say things and stuff but there's people right in this room that have taken and after Irma uh a a certain size house and built two houses and and and and and she just said about the 565 from 2002 but you know I don't understand it that people get theirs and then they're going to I I I don't agree with it you know to take whatever size home and and and and and take it and I forget how many square feet it was I know how much it is but it's not my place to say but I think if if I'm going to get up there I mean you know that that's two more two houses that put more impact and we talk about water and we talk about everything else but to me that's a pot calling the kettle black I I have an issue with that but Council anybody else got anything you want to say um I I have some remarks but I'm I mean I don't mind talking about them but I kind of wanted to hear what some of the other council members thought and said I mean not looking to pick a fight or anything but I I can get a sense there's going to be a diversity of ideas and opinions and hopefully we can come to a consensus where everybody wins some and everybody loses a little gives up a little so um um can I wait or Henry you want to say I've been sitting here for four years listening to the same thing and I had I attended the meetings prior to the four years that have going back to about 10 years and where discussion was how can we accommodate people and what their needs are as far as building goes if we consider 330 + 250 is 580 that's twice the number 10 years ago twice at some point in time you have to understand we've reached the ultimate and you can J these numbers around make everybody happy and this that and the other it's not going to work at some point in time you say have to say enough is enough and you continue trying to what you what you say van you're the cotton in the bag stuff the cotton in the bag and you continue trying to make make everybody happy and you can't do it you have to say this is it you want to sue me Sue me if you Prevail you Prevail you have to be big enough just to say this is it you continually try to to do it you know we had a planner that did not agree with everybody but I got several phone calls from people that said you know I didn't get what I wanted but he was fair in his application to turn me down I got those phone calls when that planner was on the staff there's some point in time you have to say enough is enough don't come all this Messiah ing business that what the Count's going to do and what we're going to do with the traffic and all that nonsense you continually are hellbent to allow the population and the building to grow and it's just not there I know in Key West they handled a lot of complaints and desires out of the number that they handled and I guess it was the attorney with the Key West who was a pretty fair guy I know him very well but he continually won these takings claims they're like nothing so the time has come where you have to bite the bullet if a if with this Council or the next Council you just have to do it you can't make trying to make re revisions to satisfy everybody a lot of these people bought and they knew there was a problem when they bought and now of a sudden they're saying well I'm entitled this that or the other damn it to hell don't give anything to anybody just try that that's what I have to say it just don't give anything to anybody we're done see you later you want to go to Marathon go to Marathon you want to go to kilargo go to kilargo but stay the hell out of here we just don't have room for you thank you here anybody else Elizabeth uh let's see I appreciate the conversation um and uh I I I am I am struggling a little bit with the Nuance um of some of the nuances here I mean I I don't it looks like the recommendation is a number that comes from adding um the 54 BS um with the vacant lot parcel now I was I mean I guess that's one way to come up with a number but I I think we can do a little better than that um and I think we need to do a little bit better than that because um and and unfortunately we've been put into we this Council has been put into this position we definitely saw this coming this has been no secret and um and and I think it would be um uh irresponsible to say yeah let's just take the 250 and hope we don't need them or or make up how to use them later and and um so a couple of points that were made publicly here um M rafanello mentioned um an economically backed expectation um of of of from a property owner that um that that's something to consider I mean if you if you purchased if you transact had a had a real estate transaction after 1992 or let's say 2002 I mean it's no secret what was happening in our town with the lack of permits we should consider that I don't see that number in here or that analysis here so it's you know that's a that's just a guess um if you look at this um analysis called uh vacant parcel analysis I mean you know there are a lot of tools that I would like it would have been nice to see some of the tools that could be applied to this in-depth analysis in order to come up with something other than just a dart thrown on a board because for example there are 103 properties that could be unified now when you look at the county there are incentives that the county has created when someone UNIF bu a property and and that's an option for this town I mean you know if I own the property next door to mine I I'm not I really you know there would be an incentive um there is an there there could be an incentive for um for that parcel to not be built on um and and I I don't see that analysis here so it's something we're going to have to maybe think about on the Fly um I mean you know two Parcels have Billboards on them well there we go there um those could be taken out 24 Parcels that could be acquired by the Florida forever list there's another 24 I mean I think unfortunately this is I I mean this is Workshop type conversation because um because the suggestion does not take into account the reality of these Parcels that we have here um so where does that leave us um I'm not really sure but certainly not in my mind a a suggestion of taking 250 allocations the last thing I might say is that um I'm happy that we do have this moratorium in place um and it it certainly I think alerted the community to the fact that we are taking this seriously um additionally and and we've talked about this over the last couple years just let's remember that we have 165 Plus we have 23 administrative relief 165 early out allocations and eight affordable allocations I mean those are real building permits that can be applied in any way does it and for any building owner or property owner um I mean they no one is owning property with the expectation that they're going to build a with a market rate allocation so in fact we have enough allocations currently that we're holding that would apply to all of these vacant Parcels even though again this number of 250 is is is not is not an accurate reflection of what is needed in this town so you know those are things to think about right now okie dokie um first thing I would like to say is thank you to Jennifer um she and I spent quite a while on the phone together today and earlier I had asked her to send sent me the backup for how she got the 250 and she sent I think it might have been sent to you maybe you got it maybe you didn't but it was more data detail and information about how she arrived at that and I would like to say on her behalf that or for her that I think that she did an outstanding job given the task that she was getting given which is nearly impossible an an incredible amount of data mining was necessary to come up with this information but not a lot of information was given to her to get there I mean she had to hunt for things and still there's things missing so you know while the 250 may be a shocker number I certainly hope no one cast a cloud over Jennifer for that that's that's the best that she could do with what she had and and the lack of staff that she had to do it with so I think she did an outstanding job even though I don't like 250 um with what she had to work with so she walked me through this and we had a really good conversation about um that number and how we got here and I and I've been reflecting on this for a long long time uh well before I got elected to the council in 2000 you know practicing law and being a real estate lawyer and and handling I counted one time over 15,000 real estate transactions in my career here and meeting people coming and going from the keys and buying and selling and developing this has been on my mind a while and I started in 1985 when I lived in Marathon and you know that was a different time in a different place and the idea of a takings claim was why bother you know we got other options well time the the sands of time have run out in The Hourglass and it's going to come time for us to close the door sooner or later and and I would agree with uh Miss rafanello as well as with uh John's partner Miss Gonzalez and uh there's another uh legal Authority the the professor um at Nova got away from me I'm sure I'll think of it I I had his name a few minutes ago um Gro Richard Gro has also written a paper and I too used to have a fear of of uh litigation and lawsuits arising at of takings claims but again over a long span have a professional career as an investor here as well and I built some houses myself I don't see the fear of L of of takings that I once did it it's there's something there uh by by way of just an example when we settled with Mr Glenn they started out at $3 million and they had a platted subdivision that was done in late 50s early uh 60s I mean all laid out I mean perfect and you could you could kind of say say in a manner when the government allows you to record a plat that's a preliminary form of development approval on in 1955 55 140 or so 160 Lots I was terrified of that but when we started digging into it you know they slept on their rights and uh it was basically a mangrove swamp and you know it wasn't what we did or as much as what the county did the federal government stopped dredging and filling and and Wrecking swamps and killing mangroves and all the things that live there so if you didn't do if you didn't take advantage of it get while the getting was good back in those days those that ship is sailed so the fear of litigation from people who own swamp property is gone and if you bought property recently once the laws have changed to prohibit things and you knew about that and you bought it anyway I I I don't see that you got a good case there you're going to have to fight pretty hard to get that so I say that in response to taking you know 250 of these as a possible mitigation for the offsets uh I don't think we need that many and uh you know originally and you know buddy and uh um Henry will remember we've been talking about how many how many vacant Lots do we have and how many are buildable and at one point it was a, or 1111 or something like that and I and I was just shaking my head holy crap what are we going to do about that and now it's been distilled down to 178 now the I I want to be clear there are some commercial ones too that does not count commercial and I'm going to say a word about that in a moment so we've got it down to 178 and then we've got our 54 or so that are in B pass and and to me that's that that kind of boxes in the that's the bookends of our our limitations of our liability there you know it shouldn't be any more than that so whatever those two numbers add up to is is the maximum exposure we have not talked about tdrs because we don't know how many there are we don't have a registry or anything I know of a lot of them from the work I used to do and people that I know I I'm going to guess and say there's probably 40 or 50 and then people haven't even applied to redevelop their properties and and some of these have not even been born yet if you can say it that way so there could be lots more and those are were intended with the original plan that we passed to um Place those in instead of us giving out an allocation it was to take the place and to spread development around where it was overdeveloped in other areas and other properties so I I I think we've not taken into account the benefit of the tdrs some people don't like them and might not like the way I use that word benefit with the phrase tdrs uh for us but I think it it can take the place of a lot of things that are there there's a there speaking of litigation earlier there is when I also attended uh with Jennifer and um Rob the March County presentation on rogos and takings and so forth and uh they had been they' given another one presentation to us years before and they in their white paper had mentioned uh a case about where folks to these folks up in Wisconsin own two side by-side Lots platted Lots one had a house one didn't they owned them for a long time they wanted to build on they built on one and then later on the family changed and they wanted to build on the other and the court the locals said no you've already got your one and you've got your other property so they sued and they took it all the way to the federal Supreme Court the highest court in the land and they sued for a taking and the court said nope that's not a taking you don't get the right to build on it because it's part of your estate you have a combined estate and that vacant parcel gives value to the one that you've developed so you're done so we can apply that same thing here we haven't done it the County's been looking at it there's some folks that may want to donate lots to us for tax credits uh for conservation I've been involved with that in North Florida I can tell you it works there's a lot of farmers and ranchers that like that or give conservation easements there there's there's there's a lot of taking out that can be done with that so uh the other side of the coin is I mean I think it boils down to how many do we need versus how how many do we want and the want part is uh what gets me and so you know I've lived I I moved to South Florida to South Miami uh actually to Miami in the summer of 1972 and uh lived in a hotel on uh biscane Boulevard because we lost our home and my dad had to find us a house so that's where we live for a summer and I got to live in downtown Miami and didn't like that and then we moved to Old Cutler Road and uh where there was nothing but farms and a few houses and it was beautiful today it's a bustling Community the place where I used to hunt and fish and and and camp and catch indigo snakes is now uh a big neighborhood and there's subdivisions there there's a giant sewer plant there it's all been built out I don't even know where I'm at when I drive over there anymore so that that was sad because that was a beautiful natural place at one time and and and so the key are similar and we you know but we don't have any more land and and I don't know how much cotton you can stuff in a sack but some people think we're full I think we're full on a personal level uh I I've been coming here since 72 lived here since 85 and it was Paradise then maybe not So Much Anymore are we really the sport fishing capital of the world how many sportfish are we catching anymore it wasn't like it was in the good old days days when was the last you know conquer out uh a lot of the sport you could go out without a GPS or anything and catch all the fish you wanted not anymore so I catch my fish with a Mastercard at the fish market so that's that's how you have to do it today so I'm rambling you know um try not to go too long Winston Churchill said that a speech a good speech is like a woman's skirt should be long enough to cover the subject matter but short enough to keep your interest so I'm going to try to shorten this down a little bit kind of a little humor come on it's my last night you don't have to listen to this anymore after about another hour or so so so so so I'm going to try to make this like a mini skirt and shorten it up um I I think 250 is too much I I think I think on on the side of of getting some um we have allowed people to enter the bass system we have taken their application and we've cut it off but those who got in under the wire I think may have something there and I've mentioned to this before at meetings in 2017 it might have been 2018 uh under the direction and the drive of Ken uh Davis who was our uh Village councilman at that time the village sent out a notice to be a certified mail or registered mail to every vacant lot owner in the village I got one I still have it I still have the envelope and it said with a little pamphlet in so many words if you have vacant land we have limited number of allocations left if you want to build on it Now's the Time come in apply or suffer the consequences and so I did that others did that and uh the folks in bass some of them probably did that so I think we have something we there's there's a concern there we have to do something about that so can we handle another 250 you know families here TR the traffic I mean every home that's built generates so many trips and when you look under these planning manuals they have this one is it called ITC okay I'm going to let her get that in a minute uh it's like in the comp old CL plan it said like 8.9 trips per day per house or something like that so let's say it's five and you multiply it by 250 that's a 1,50 new trips every day on the highway and if you put those on a upper madaki key the bottleneck will get even more bottlenecked so I think we have to take those things to into account I don't think we're going to take cars off the road we can't control what happens north of tavanir Creek or south of the lower matumbi that's the county and and the cities so if they're going to want to overbuild or develop out to the max that's on them but they all will pass through us and we just have to work with that the best that we can um so oh another thing I would mention that has frustrated me and amazed me since day one is we talk about dwelling units and bass allocations and rogos but we don't talk about the size and Buddy you were making reference to I don't know which house or who did it but one house became two or a little house became a big one or whatever it is that phenomenon has been occurring through the village for the last 20 or 25 years so legally a one-bedroom house 650 square fet has the same legal significance as a 10-bedroom house that's 10,000 square fet I don't I don't know how why can't we think about that as far as impacts and stuff goes that to me is crazy but hey I'm crazy so what whatever but um so with that I I would say uh maybe this is the time we do horse trading or not but I I I can't go with 250 I can't go with 200 um but we need at least 54 I know that so the mark are you saying 54 I don't know what I'm saying I I'm not finished thinking it through and I'm looking for you know more information to come up with a consensus and a good answer instead of just what Mark wants so um I'll stop talking now thank you Sharon that was a lot was it was um I think everybody body pretty much said what we all feel um the uh I know Jennifer's doing her job so that needs to come up above anything no one is pointing any fingers at her um the issues that keep coming up is as long as marathon and Key West are going to open their doors for the floodgates they got to go through us so when people talk about the traffic I always find it funny when people talk about the traffic in Alam marada Because unless we have fly over they got to go through us so as long as marathon and Key West want all they can get our traffic is not going to change at this point and so that's an issue the thought of every vacant lot being built on scares the hell oops scares me and um that's to me it should be taken right off like Elizabeth had a bunch of good points about the Billboards about you know combining Lots so the the the need for 250 I don't believe is there either um I think um we are I have a lot of people down here Mark you talk about um coming here in 76 you should have well show my age but when I was little you could just go in front of our house and fill the bottom of our boat with crawfish and con and starfish and it was it was a killer place to grow up and I'm blessed by having that in my life um I I think we are and and part of the problem falls on these councils if we didn't allow people to buy Hotel units and take that hotel room and then turn it around and move it and build a macdaddy mansion of 10 bedrooms we wouldn't be in the situation we're in I've always had a problem with that I don't think it's hotel room Sharon that they're that they're doing that it's tdrs that well the size that they come from is my point people shouldn't that people that have done that say come here and say we can't do this we do that you know hey come on what's good for the goose is good for the gander if you're going to do it you shouldn't be calling other people out on it well okay uh my point was is that we do take small tdrs that come from a small house a Conch House and your next thing you know it's a 10-bedroom on the beach side to side so that that has to fall on the people who allowed that to happen in the first place in all honesty or trailer parks there you go trailer parks so my point point is is I don't think we need 250 either mark but um and I also really want to figure out this vacant lot thing that we don't do every vacant lot but my concern is and what Tai said is that who's going to get these 250 if if we don't take them not that I want to take them but just think about Marathon even more traffic even more people going through us to get to Marathon I can't believe the county would give out that many myself I mean I'm sort of shocked but if if we don't take those somebody's going to get them and I'm not saying we're going to take them I'm just saying it's not like they're going to go away is the way I'm understanding it correct that somebody will get them and so that that is very scary and I don't know who in Tallahassee decided this but I think we need to talk to them but anyhow I agree with you I don't think we need that many I don't think I think we need to look at some of these vacant lots and figure out a better system for that and take some of them right off the list so uh again I think we're all sort of much in agreement here you know I mean do you want to take all 250 Mr Mayor take off what take all 250 I don't know about all 250 but I think we need to get some we have people that are in the system that we told okay we told van please you know what I have my mic on okay you know what I don't need you to tell me okay what my mic is on all right so van please respect us you don't need to holler out in a meeting you can ask okay um you know we we we open the system and we let people come in and and and now now people I don't think it's right I waited seven years to get a permit my first permit I've ever pulled in Alam marada because there was a moratorium on all right but it's interesting that people came from the count that weren't even in the county and and within one year we had a moratorium going on but people built houses in Venetian Shores now you tell me how that stuff like that what we need to make this system Fair we're whatever we're doing it's got to be what's good for the goose is good for the gander it's not you know we we got to make it equal the other thing is is we should have closed the system a long time ago we can't now we're taking away administrative people that have been waiting over four and five years is that fair I did administratively I had to file it myself that's an extra 1,500 bucks all right so you know I I don't know if 250 is the right number but let me tell you something if the Cy is going to build down there they're going to building they're going to build Marathon they're going to build South okay this us taking these permanence isn't the only traffic problem in alamada but for some reason every everybody's blaming it on Alam marada but it's not Alam marada what about the 86 units that are going to go tavanir okay everybody thought we're going to give those to to to to that project we didn't they got them from the county so what about those people when they want to go to Key West is that not putting more traffic in alamada yes okay all right so when they build more houses in kilargo so I I just I think we need to really think about it we need to look at our we need to look at our our our lots that are buildable but we got to do something for these people that we have engendered they went through our system just like these lot dedication people were told they could go out and buy a lot and get the extra points and all of a sudden you know almost three years later after we tell them to follow our system and we don't give them the permit we shouldn't we either stop and don't tell them you know you got to do this you got to do that follow the system and then they still can't and and they put money out I don't think it's right can I say something I don't think any of us want to do that I think you I think we all want to see who's in the system have it but the fault lies in the past councils for not passing things that should have been done before and so so that's why when you put people up here you better seriously know who you're putting up here because we do have people in this community who want to keep building and building and building and I for one don't think any of us want to deprive the people in the system that's what 50 something yeah so it's not like it's way far reached from 250 I don't think any of us are saying them but we have to fix this broken system and the broken system is we need to find I don't know how to stop doing what that we keep doing in this town and and that's taking more building rights more permits I mean I'd like to add a little more fuel to the fire if I may well well Mark you know Sharon talked about tdrs okay and these big corporations that have came in here that are buying Little Mom and Pops and then taking moving the units and then going to build affordable housing there which the whole key is being taken over by Corporate America okay um that's adding more traffic to the road okay more traffic in our neighborhood in your neighborhood I mean all over so it it's and and and you just spoke on I know people that have that people don't even know they have 12 tdrs they've been sitting on people don't even know they have them I know of a lot of them out there and I know about square footage commercial square footage over 100,000 square ft that was right in this Village right on this island that actually could it could have been transferred and used the owner could have used it and could it could it go back maybe you get a good attorney but I'm saying there's lots of stuff unknown that we don't even know about that that's sitting out there go ahead Mark well I I just I'm not trying to you know confuse things or make it harder for us but I think there's a a bigger picture and we need to put our arms around all this information and and come to a a rational conclusion and it's not going to be really easy but there's a little bit more to to the uh allocations than meets the eye um our comp plan requires or or maybe it suggests Jennifer will and John will straighten me out but in the original comp plan with the original data you know when you build a house that creates a need for Commercial Services because people have to have place to shop for groceries and get their car fixed and go to the doctor or dentist or whatever school school service their yard maintenance everything that we we need to take care of ourselves and so there's a formula each single family residence generates the need for and I want to say it's 238 Square ft of commercial space and we saw this in action recently when we took the 300 units from the state we suddenly found out we had 71 or 74,000 Square ft new Square F feet to work with because remember we were almost out when we did the approval for SD Marine here and then the chica had their big Conference Center built we were down to just a few thousand well not anymore we have a surplus and we've had and so I did calculation you know how good I am at math and so if you do 238 time 250 I came out with 59,500 Just sh 60,000 more Square F feet we you don't have to use it all I'm just saying if we do this the impact is more than you think it is because of that we're going to create the need for all this other stuff you know maybe everybody drives to public cavener and and it's not a big deal but um so there's that to think about one other thing is that you know decisions have consequences and so we sat in this room about a month ago and we came together on a budget and part of that budget was we're going to spend a million dollars well I shouldn't say that we're we set aside a million dollars for land acquisition now if we have more permits than we need there's no driver for that why would we want to you know spend money buying land when we can just give them a permit and save the money I mean I don't think that way I I have my reasons why I think it's a good idea but council's after us may not um and I'll say this my way I don't trust the councils of the future not anybody in particular running for the next office that's not what I'm saying but let me give you an example Jennifer gave us a brief history on uh bass and when it started out we got an 262 units well that was divided up about equal between market rate and affordable and the next go around in 2013 well they changed all that and suddenly they they thought well we don't need so many affordable you know let's let's push that to the market rate so it went from 14 to 22 and then that that addition to market rate then Dro down the affordable and in my view that was a horrible mistake because that only contributed to the deficit that we're suffering from and I think is a crisis of the lack of affordable housing have we kept that work well it was called affordable then Workforce and affordable are not the same they're different species but the affordables that I've seen aren't affordable well also back then the affordables only had a shortterm uh deed restriction and those expired so I I don't know why we did that that was crazy but you know but I'm just saying and so here's some good news something positive I'm going to say something positive so please listen we just hired a killer planning firm to to help us write a new comp plan and new ldrs and we have all these elements there Jennifer's been working with him or G to be working with him and her staff and we're going to get new staff I mean we got a chance to literally rewrite the book so let's take what we need that we know we need and not temp Fate on on you know loading it up with extra stuff I mean you know if there's if there's a sixpack of beer in the refrigerator you're only going to drink a six-pack right so I'm just saying if it's not there we can't use it and so why tempt people in the future you know I I don't think that we should have varied the the we should have reduced the affordables in the in the past that's how we got the pro the problem we have today let's think decades down the road instead of weeks and so and and so be be well you know we don't even so so are you are you done I have something to comment I I I don't know if I'll ever be done but I'm going to shut up and let you speak so go ahead elizabe um I mean you've made some interesting points um and and and what I'm part of what I'm hearing you say is isn't you're acknowledging this affordable housing um the lack of affordable housing that we have and and I want to just go back to the fact that we we are s we have 165 it says it right in our PowerPoint Reserve um early evacuation affordable U units and we have eight more affordable available I mean those are real are real um permits that can be used to build on vacant land and that in combination with the fact that the 2017 letter went out everyone knows with vacant lots that they need to build I mean what what are we what's the problem here we have 54 people in the system that we put them there and and unless my I mean as I recall there was there was some some tussle over the the idea of putting a moratorium on but I'm glad that we're now um in agreement that that there there's some sense in putting a pause on allowing more people into that system um I think that we're all in in consensus here um but I mean what I'm hearing you say I mean I'm hearing everybody say that you know so you know take 60 and be done with it and move on and and and you know I think that you touch on it buddy that we need to be fair we need to be Equitable things aren't fair and and I think it's because no council and you mentioned it as well has wanted to make the hard decisions that like we have no plan we're just winging it it's never you know like no one wants to put their foot down and and I mean at some point we we really do have to I mean and we have to we have to someone has to make hard decisions and you know I don't I and maybe maybe this is it um and issue that um we continue to revisit the the traffic issue I mean yes everybody has to go through here but guarantee the more houses we put in this town it's just becomes very uncomfortable to live I mean it is a busy town already who cares about the traffic do we need more so you know to maybe maybe what I'm hearing you say is do the minimum do do 55 market rate we have enough per permits and taking are I think more of a myth than we like to think and we have other tools to use that with that whole combination because it's not a one there's not a one solution here we have a lot of tools that we can pick up and if if what we're being asked to do is come up with a number well so then let's say 54 or whatever it is it's in bass the on the bass list you know what what about the young people that grew up here like I'm thinking of Richard black you know how long he waited a guy that you know young couple but I'm thinking you know I don't I don't know man like my my son had love to move from Key West back up here but it I mean how could he get a permit you know what I'm saying he he doesn't have you know $500,000 to to go buy a TDR $400,000 to to buy a TDR he need he would need three times 500,000 to build you so maybe you do get a TDR but then you got to build something I mean it's impossible I mean it's is a very about if your daughter she goes to college she graduate she wants to live here she's going to have to live in a tent in the yard I mean let's be honest that's that's where we are you know we we're we're past the point of thinking that you know a young family is going to come and this is going to be their starter home I mean there's nothing under a million dollars in this town that you want to live in let's be honest I mean and again that is the problem that over the years has been created by people just doing what they want to do and and nobody's saying anything and people making money from doing this and now we're in this situation where you know I mean um what are we supposed to just keep building because your son or your daughter may want to come back you know what I'm saying so we have to stop somewhere how do young young people can't even make it they can't they can't okay they can't they can't live here I mean but can I think one other comment on this cuz it's well when you're done go I mean here's an example the next Council and one of the upcoming meetings is going to look at The Islander issue we're increasing the density at The Islander with 55 extra units and guess what we're building affordable housing for the people who are going to work to serve those additional 55 units I mean that is a decision that's going to be super hard 55 or 34 55 55 thought it was 3 okay I think it's 55 I've been looking at it closely but the point is that that this Council whoever is sitting here is going to agree to make that happen change all the zoning and then build affordable housing so that the people who work there for those additional 55 units that we're allowing to build can can can live somewhere when we already have people who like again like what if a kid wanted to come and rent a place here it's impossible so when we think about when we were we're having this you know like come to Jesus moment here about affordable housing but then when we're actually ask to make decisions like this one that's coming up with The Islander I mean that is going I have a feeling that's going to pass and what all we're doing is allowing a corporation to put a bunch of more units of Hotel units and then building housing for the people to work at that place that we just allowed to increase by half I mean that is foolish and it's going to be controversial and it's going to be but I mean the fact is yeah my kid can't come I I mean I don't know I doubt if my kid's going to come back and live here she's got she can't I don't know maybe when she saying that as a I hear you 100% the days I I know where you live and I know that street very well and you know the days of the small houses Richie's father uh uh uh I call him Bones his name was Warren but he built all these nice little rental houses that were like two bedroom one bathroom that were reasonable and people could live there until they got something going but and I know Alam has became you know I mean the house right there on East Ridge my father paid $14,000 for that house in 1961 that's amazing and today they sell for over a million yeah same house well I almost been renovated you know so I I think what we're getting at here is take a minimum number is that what I'm hearing us all say well I'm going to say one last thing and it's right on the wall every unit we add has an impact on the right of quiet enjoyment and our quality of life ship sailed well yeah but two wrongs don't make a right and I mean we we don't we don't need to make it any worse than it is and but you know there definitely has to be some kind of a balance because there are people who have an expectation that we created or allowed them to have and I think we're on the hook for that that's 54 people at least 54 54 people but but then there's the the tdrs that are out there and and we may when we go through the comp plan and the ldrs there may be some way for uh our new Consultants to create a meaningful economic use of some of these properties that does not involve the building of a house and creation of a new dwelling unit and you know one of those is the what the county had with their program where if you have a lot next to your house and you want to use it for something other than a house you know a garage a pool a tennis court a garden whatever you want as you don't have a dwelling on it they would buy it for you for the assessed value and you get to keep the land what a killer deal and we may want to do that for some folks and that would take those take the liability off of us they get some meaningful use of it and then if we uh make some lots that are kind of hybrid you could do a little commercial stuff uh with it light duty stuff I mean there's a lot of opportunities there that are in the future four years ago I came up the same does I changed my mind for you on that changed your mind the the other thing I would throw in there is what Henry's kind of hinting at here is that if we just did the 54 and and I don't know if the next council's going to give them all out in one shot or kind of spread that out I mean I don't see why they shouldn't just give them all out and get it over with but um we we need to stretch out give ourselves a buffer some time to sort things out and to you know let the comp plan go through and the new ldrs and give ourselves some you know so maybe we need some more units to to kind of just buy some time with for if so can I ask a question to that and maybe this is a question for John because what what it looks like we're being asked to do is come up with a number but there's also a resolution and so can that resolution incorporate some language that talks about some um withhold holding of those market rate until a certain period after the comp plan whatever can that be included in this resolution I think so but the next Council can come along and yeah but guess what they're not here yet so this resolution is actually just a request to the county as to what the the village would like to request of the county um I mean that would be something in there wouldn't necess that would that would not be something to really convey to the county that's an internal issue um I mean certainly we could could put something like that in there um as council member Greg alluded to I mean obviously you know resolutions are are potentially subject to change or not it they could you know could be the same thing but yeah but so so I'm hearing you say yes that could be not necessarily a component that's conveyed to the county but it could be incorporated in the resolution as an as a description of how we how we treat those and I think it's important and okay whatever the council I mean anything can be changed in the future but it's important right because it would give again our planning department time our comprehensive plan planner time to to do something that that to your point buddy is is fair permanent as much as permanent can be and and gives us some time I don't know what that language would look like maybe someone can suggest it I was just going to follow up on that because as I was trying to think it through I mean one thing you might be able to do um is you know the village recommends receiving X number of bass uh allocations should they be made available to be distributed um over and you could if you wanted to put in a time period or or something like that where you're talking about um uh lengthening out the the uh the time to give them out um you could put maybe put something like that in I don't think that would necessarily be inappropriate to uh even send to the county frankly I Harris said I thought he told us to take them all well no no but he said stretch him out for 50 years or whatever he or I don't think we can get 50 but you talked I heard numbers like 10 12 15 18 I mean but no no what I meant he was saying stretch them out don't give you know only it's it's it's very slow growth it's very you know you're there's a lot of cities that do that that was my comment about Marathon they're going to go somewhere so yeah that scares me too you know we have but but I mean do we don't I mean we can't control that we I we can't they can go to the limits if they that's nothing we we have no control there so what's the Lang are we in agreement that we could add some language that talks that gives the give some buffer for the work that we are that this council is saying has to be done that comp plan has to be done the we still have no plan you know our planning staff still needs time to work on this analysis um Can is there language that anyone could suggest to give everyone time I think John should figure it out I don't think he can no we're saying like 54 the ones who are in I think we need a buffer yeah I can't go with 54 I would say I'd say half 125 can I just can I say that again we've got 23 administrative relief we have 1675 additional affordable housing units I mean that that's affordable that's there's there's isn't that what you're saying like the the the way we want to populate our town is to to make whole the people the 54 people on that list and then like God help us if someone who is a teacher wants to maybe live here or your kid or my kid well here the here they are right here here we already have these allocations and we we wipe that off the book when we say let's take a market rate allocation for every vacant parcel here because that means they're all going to be multi-million dollar homes and and we just sat here and talked about the need for affordable housing we have those all for is what I call it affordable here is a $500,000 house how does a young person even afford A500 but but we have 165 early out affordable available and that is the multi-unit I mean we have those and so why do we need 150 market rate a guarantee and talking about I mean we don't even know who's coming on to the council those will be used going back to your six-pack I mean you give 150 market rate they'll be gone that that I mean let's just then cancel the affordable housing anything so let's let's just just throw a few numbers out the number for Jennifer from Jennifer is 178 vacant Lots the number of bass alloc bass applications is five uh 54 if you add those together I get 232 subtract from that our administrative relief and the 10 of this and the two of that which is another 36 whatever she has on that page so you subtract 36 from 232 that leaves 196 total you know that that would to me that would be the absolute maximum but some of those we may they may that number may come down further because there may be some that are combined 103 properties could be unified so take off 103 so there's there's the the some unification ones there so take off for habitat and then tdrs and then habitat we don't need any well no I'm just saying I'm just saying I'm trying to get us to a realistic so go ahead and keep doing your little math equation because when you take away 103 properties that could be unified which would mean that that some Council in the future is making a policy for this well I don't know if 103 is half because if you put two together you know you have to take half of 103 these are properties are joint I don't I don't know the detail on 50 plus two for Billboards plus 24 with habitat that's 75 wants to speak before you take away all those in the seven categories in here I just want to caution you it says that that needs further evaluation of all those categories because since this list was written I even though our number one there are eight Parcels in taban and these Parcels have beneficial use as the zoning District allows for accessory uses tavo's HOA does not allow for accessory uses so I found that out after this list was written so so there's further review that needs to be H that has to happen so I'm not suggesting leave them all but I'm also not asking that you be careful that you not remove all of them on the on the uh total number you got that was as of 2002 the vacant they were vacant as of 20 we can try to update that could we have given a a bass allocation to some of those after 202 um maybe it's unlikely be pass more likely they could have gotten a TDR okay well I'm just there there's the things we don't know all we don't have all the data we can't then we need to are we tbling this is that the deal no no no I want to make a I want to be part of the decision tonight if that's the last thing literally that I get to do sitting at this diets I want to have my fingerprints on it if if they get erased later too bad are you saying 150 you said 190 I told you at the beginning I didn't know the number because I wanted yall to talk to me so we're getting better you know I so I I would say we need we need to whatever it is it needs to have a0 75 because we've got 0.25 left over from something else we need to make that one hole so just kind of a joke but practically speaking it would be nice to have a round number so you know well Mark as your um as your last you know parting parting the DI why don't you make a stand for affordable housing we've got those we we have them here they cover every vacant lot that we own this is a number the county wants to know how many they don't care what we do with them now I would love for it to all be affordable but when you well if you really would because we have those those allocations then what we could possibly agree on is we make those 54 people whole we add five more for who knows what there's 60 60 market rate because since you're making a stand for affordable housing and we already have them reserved for the for the city then there we go you know good for you you you're walking out with a nod toward affordable housing as we all are which we've been talking about this for two years and we've done nothing on that I was King for a Day I would depopulate is morage well you're not but for affordable housing thank God yes but what I'm saying is I don't I think we need to leave some in there we we don't want to handicap the next Council we don't want to handicap able City when they start to they they're going to need some tools to work with they're going to need some flexibility we're not talking about that we're talking about principles we're talking about what do we believe in and we all just sat here and said that our kids aren't going to be able to live here and that's a nod toward taking a stand for using the affordable housing allocations that we have that's what's happening and if and you know you can't I mean this whole like let's say one thing and do another I mean that's what's happening here when we say let's take 150 units I I don't think I think 150 is too high I good I don't know but I'll tell you something some of these people like this firm that we hire they are very good at for redevelopment and whatever they're going to come up with and they if they they're very creative and you know what what's it going to Jennifer if we put a unit on top let's say let's say Sharon's flower shop they she needs a permit to put units up there right yes she need an allocation for any residential unit that would go on top of that all right mm because I know Miss pasido Senate President talked about it all these businesses that we have why can't they have residents above them instead of taking more more land as a Workforce housing or or or a residence were all about well yeah this is I was just going to mention adus like this is part of the issue down here in Monroe County because we're an area of critical State concern we're not like the other place places that can just hand out permits to everybody that wants to build an Adu or you know apartments at top their flower shop we have to allocate to every single residential unit including a 500t Adu so that's why you know these are so important and I just also I think John had something to say but I also wanted to just say that the we have a moratorium right now and you all keep referring to that and that is true but that ends in February once that ends people will be able to apply again for a repass and that we just go on a list and if we have new allocations which is fine they'll just sit there on a list but and I mean so good point right but let's hope that that the next Council realizes that without any kind of policy and re any kind of actual new policy then they're going to just be in the same position that we were before we said put a hold on things excuse me on that on the moratorium John if if the next Council wanted to extend that it would have to be by an ordinance it couldn't be by a resolution correct yeah it would be done the same way so you need what two readings and then we have to go back before um uh Commerce for approval as well so that so to back up the start date wouldn't that have to start in the December meeting yeah it yes you you could have pardon could we give direction to to um to get that started we we could do that and they could decide not to use it or to use it at their Leisure uh the vice mayor will be there so so we can we can tee this up for you in the next group if you would like that let's do it it it would be you can give direction to staff to bring back a uh another extension uh obviously that's subject to approval of the of the next Council but you can certainly give uh direction for us to bring that back to the December meeting so what are we saying with this table at then no no wait no no this was a moratorium budy that's just extending the moratorium in December we'll have to start working on extending it and just be that's the on the market rate B pass because the as Jennifer mentioned earlier the the administrative relief one is still pending approval from Commerce so that's that will beyond that y okay so so we're giving them direction to do that that will be a to a tool for you to use I will make sure gets done you're welcome thank you yeah you're welcome now meanwhile back to the uh John tell us what Mark just talked about I want to know so I understand this he was talking about a the the talk about the the moratorium he was he was pointing out that the moratorium is set to expire in February uh so in order for for if the if the next Council wants to continue or extend that moratorium which it's allowed to do uh under the ordinance uh it would require two readings and approval from Commerce so that takes time so what Mark had asked um was uh to uh for direction to be given to staff to bring back a uh a second extension of the bass market rate moratorium for the December meeting for consideration for the next Council and you Tire stiring around my finger to remind me right yes [Laughter] yes I know some people don't want that and don't like that but I just if the tool is there you can decide to use it or not with the complain coming I think it's important yeah you don't want to Cloud up the comp plan with so let now we need to decide is the number correct so you you want to do this like an auction you know we start low and you go high or can I just make one other comment so let's go back to the fact that in 2017 everyone with a vacant parcel was sent a letter saying we're running we have no more permits or something to that effect we have a limited number if you want to build apply now and so this this speaks to like what you know sorry if you didn't see that I'm sorry that you didn't step up and let's but people still have property rights and you know you guys are talking about this Mark this letter and Elizabeth you're talking about it Aqueduct sent out letter after letter after letter to people that had to put their grinder pumps in and you know what they just kept ignoring it and ignoring it and ignoring it um so I mean people have problem property rights I mean we we all do have property rights but I mean except for the fact that we are limited in our property rights by the number of allocations just like you know we have property rights but we have to follow the law and the law we don't have any we are out of permits and we get to make decisions about how to move that forward I mean I want to ask a legal question please John let's say that we wanted to take some repass allocation units more than 54 but we wanted to stretch that out into the future and what would be a safe number for us to give out each year H how how much time could we buy is where I'm going what would be a safe minimum number we could give out each year without high risk of a CL takings claim or something like that I mean six a year 10 a year three a year I would say safe number something that is is more than di Minimus I mean I think I I I would like to stretch it out as long as possible because I think that that gives from from a liability standpoint that that puts us in the best position to defend uh a claim because you still have the opportunity to come off of the list um uh you know there's not really any direct there's not really any law on that but I I would just say from from my experience in the courtroom and with Bert Harris claims I would say something more than just a Minimus number um so something more than you know one like one a quarter would you think that would be yeah I mean at that point you're talking about four a year I would think that's more than di Minimus um I mean it's certainly something I would feel comfortable going in defending um so if we took 40 extra over the bass stuff that would give us 10 years years that's right can can I ask a followup on that question sure 125 can I I just wanted one followup so you're talking about um tell tell me how um property rights are infringed upon when when we're what we're offering it would what we're offering could be an affordable um an affordable um allocation as opposed to a market rate how how is that seen in the court in the eyes of someone trying to say that they're being deprived of something yeah well it so it depends it's it'll be very fact specific it'll depend on when they as as we talked about before when they purchase the property um what and really the the phrase that that is utilized in Bert Harris taking claims because Bert Harris is very unique to Florida we have very unique laws here in terms of property rights is reasonable uh um investment backed expectations so if somebody has if the court were to find that somebody has a reasonable investment backed expectation of a market rate single family home the uh offering them a an affordable housing uh unit at least under the laws it currently stands it's there there's some issues still being dealt with on appeal would not avoid liability it would go towards um potential damages that we could limit potential damages uh it's again like I said that this this whole area is in flux it's actually a case out of marathon um that uh that that deals with this and and the the village is involved as a um uh on an amikas brief you all gave us direction to to support uh marathon on that so it's it's extremely fact specific so if they purchased before you know if they purchased at a certain point I think we have good defenses that say you have no reasonable investment back to expectation market rate affordable or otherwise because you knew you knew what the law was um if there were some changes in the law that appli to their property that impacted it um then I think something like that would go towards at least currently hopefully the the court will change their opinion but currently that would go towards damages uh the limitation on Damages so so Bert Harris is a kind of claim for something not quite to the level of a full-blown taking it's it's more of a you like a dent in the fender kind of a thing instead of a complete totaling out and this conversation would be easier if we knew when these 178 Parcels were purchased but we don't so this is just so this the suggestion is is the ones purchased most re recently will have the hardest time making a claim so there's a lot of those so but we don't know that number do we we don't and so that's why I'm saying if we if we go to 54 and we miss something we could be stepping in a hole that we can't get out of and that that's not good for everyone so it I mean listen I I I told you i' depopulate the place I would plant hammocks everywhere I could up and down the highway and fill it up with snails and snakes and everything but that's not going to happen so the reality is we got to take take what we can to minimize what we know could be coming and so we're going to guess I think we're going to estimate tonight but we got to do the best we can we don't want to handicap the next Council or the planners so we're going to come up with a number and then say that we're going to pass it out one a quarter for the next 20 years is that what four a year for 10 years equals 40 15 years is 60 so I mean and you know can do allocations is that what we're asking for I'm just giving you numbers about this number is complet shot in the dark there's there's no there is no right number here because we don't have all the information that that is that is a fact we simply do not this is a madeup this is arbitrary so you know I mean so it doesn't really I mean we're we're L there's no right or wrong answer no you no one can be faulted here I would say let's go lower let's go 60 rather than 100 nope we need a more little more there so what is the number it doesn't because again want me to say a number sure because this is we don't have enough information if we knew when these par 10475 how about that fine that's fine and then and then I then the then we would need to add the language of doing those out one a quarter for how many every years that would take so some language so we're jotting down you know Rob and I were chatting to some options could be be you know with the Lang with a phrase for distribution over a period of X number of years um for or something broader for distribution consistent with the villages um pending com comprehensive plan Amendment put that how about that one the comp plan you can put it in there because this could all change the next time yeah they can change this but I think I think you're messaging to the next Council even though this is a resolution that's going to the County Commission that we're we're messaging to the next Council hey you know we gave you some tools to work here stretch it out so what I mean fine 100.4 or whatever I said 100 I I I don't care whatever you want I just let's make 75 I don't like having that 10075 with the language of of of Distributing these after the complant is finished one per one per quarter for the next 10 years well that that that means there's more years no four times if we did 50 that would give us 12 and 1/2 years so over the next 24 years if we did four a year and we had 50 to give out it's 12 and a half years I thought you said 100 and a quarter Sharon I did at first but I lowered my expectations okay if everyone is fine with that I mean this could all be changed but but how's that the state can drive fly over with Santa Claus and throw permits off the sleigh and yeah it doesn't really matter anything can happen yep question okay I'll make a motion that we the number would be 10475 and will include the the directive language that for distribution over a period of 12 and A2 years was that the yes Mark why are you doing 4.75 why don't you say 105 I mean what's the because we have that oddwin left over this would round it up to0 105 because we have a we have 0.25 in our bank because of a settlement um trying to balance the cash register what and and the message that we're sending with this is that every lot can be built on that's that is the message just to be clear every lot that we have can be built on with a market rate I mean that's essentially what we're saying and so that message that this council is saying is that we do not value affordable housing or Workforce housing I would point out that we could aggregate more than one unit on a portable housing project 16 on an acre something like that that so and that would still keep a lot of vacant land available we you know we have the Machado Lots up there add that into the language in some way I I don't know quite how to do that and if even if we do the next group can come in and it race it all out and you know so that if we get too aggressive with that we're inviting whatever I'm I mean I I I would I would argue that because as long as we're messaging then message what you want to message which is stack them up on one lot so that we have some vacancy left I mean why not if you really if that's what you're really trying to say unless you're trying to say something else I told you what I would really like to do but that's impossible so I I I don't I don't want to hamstring the next group that comes in I don't want to frustrate in hamstring the planners that come in and I want to provide for flexibility for things that we don't know about you know and this is the last thing I'm going to say the I know but I'm gonna I'm gonna really try it's true not not for the whole night but the reason that adding more language to that than less is that you have been sitting here and this whole Council has been sitting here for two years and the next Council who's going to have to deal with this immediately will need the direction of the EXP of us of of this panel so yes more language than not yeah absolutely and they can change it anyway but they at least have the intention you know they they they if they win they they're entitled to that you know that's how it works that's our system I appreciate your sentiment there I appreciate yours thank you so did you make a motion Mark uh did I yeah there was a motion to I'll restate a motion to approve with the amendment of changing the number to from 250 to 104.7 Bass allocations with the addition of the language for distribution of a period over 12 12 and a half years that's it that's my motion all right I'll second it all right so oh yeah public comment we already had public comment didn't we yeah hey van oh yeah we did please discuss oh come on okay go ahead no we had public comment already they had to sign up let's just move Mr Quick are we in the line we already did public comment correct yeah we're in compliance with the law okay all [Music] right you wanted it after Jennifer spoke Jennifer discussed we did it after that so um okay so Marne we have a motion in a second would you call the role please council member Mark Greg yes vice mayor Sharon Mahoney yes council member Elizabeth Jolan yes council member Henry Rosenthal no and mayor buddy Pender yes the motion passes 4 to one because I didn't know if I wanted to vote on it like that on well done next tab all right so John tab what is it c yeah C and D are quasa judicial um so it's going to require everybody be sworn and they are companions um usually we you know in the past we have taken them together as long as there's no objection by Council or the applicants um agent um if there is there any objection to taking C and D together no okay no okay all right all right so we are into quad judicial these are tabs C and D please be advised that the following agenda items are quasa judicial in nature if you wish to comment on these items please inform the village clerk by filling out the available signup form an opportunity for persons to speak on each item will be made available after the applicant and staff have made their presentations on each item as a reminder testimony and quasi judicial items must be in person Zoom testimony is not permitted these proceedings will be handled in accordance with the village code requirements all testimony including public testimony and evidence will be made under oath or affirmation additionally each person who gives testimony may be subject to cross-examination if you do not wish to be either cross-examined or sworn your testimony shall be disregarded the general public will not be permitted to cross-examine Witnesses but the public May request the council to ask questions of Staff or Witnesses on their behalf with full agenda packet on each item is hereby entered into the record along with the village code and comprehensive plan any correspondence that was received by The Village staff is included in the file and part of the record persons representing organizations must present evidence of their authority to speak for the organization further details on the quaser judicial procedures in section 30- 256 of the village code may be obtained from the village clerk as mentioned tonight there are two quasa judicial items they are tab C and D at this time I would like to ask anyone who intends to speak on the Quasi judicial items to please raise your hand to be sworn in by the clerk if you intend to speak on Tab C or D in the matter in which you are about to give testimony do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do the witnesses have been sworn Mr Mayor um I'll read the both um ordinance titles um tab C is an ordinance of Alamar Village violence Florida considering the request of Ty Harris PA agent for soour South LLC to amend the village future land use map from conservation to mixed use for the subject property lower located on lower mataki key with real estate number 0039 44818 as legally described herein providing for the transmittal of this ordinance to the State Department of Commerce providing for an effective date upon the approval of this ordinance by the State Department of Commerce tab D is uh uh is an ordinance of isamar Village violence Florida considering the request of Tai Harris PA agent for Soldier South LLC to amend the the official zoning map from conservation to commercial fishing for the subject property located on Lower mum key with real estate number 00 39448 00108 as legally described herein providing for the transmittal of this ordinance State Department of Commerce providing for an effective date upon the approval of this ordinance by the State Department of Commerce oh yeah I'm sorry I was reading off of the script Jennifer pointed out that tab tab C has sorry I was reading off of the script Jennifer pointed out that tab C has some additional language so I apologize let me reread that so that it's you said yeah and let me reread that so there's no issues tab C in ordinance of vamar Village violence Florida considering the request of Tai Harris PA agent for soour South LLC to amend The Village's future land use map from conservation to mix use for the subject property located on lower madaki key with real estate number 00 39448 00108 and to establish a new sub area policy under objective 1- 2.1 as legally described herein providing for the transmittal of this ordinance to the State Department of Commerce and providing for an effective date upon the approval of this ordinance by the State Department of Commerce I apologize for that uh councel before we begin uh I'd like you to please disclose any expar Communications that you may have had with the applicant or anyone else again these are for tab c and d and please include whether the person represented a group or entity as well as the subject matter as you recall thank you okay uh let's see Elizabeth we got to do the expart we got do xart yeah we gota wait for Mark and Elizabeth to come back Elizabeth and Mark get out here come on you have to say if you've talked to somebody no did you talk to somebody okay boy do I got to run everything around here I'm telling him Mark did you talk to anybody about this okay okay I haven't talked to anyone since the first time yeah not since last I haven't talked to anybody since the the first time either I mean I talked to hi Ty Ty the first time hi Tai Henry I Nott okay all right we're ready to proceed okay Council this uh Jennifer debrian planing director for the village Isa Mara um here tonight for you for the second reading for the um ordinance amending the flum and the Zoning for the so South LLC Parcels uh the change for the future land use map or flum would be from conservation to mixed use and for the zoning map Amendment it would be from conservation to commercial fishing District uh as you may recall this was before you back in I believe it was June let me scroll to my paper yep it was this back before you in June 13th for first reading the council passed it at that time as well as creating a sub area which would limit the property to the permitted uses in the commercial fishing District as well as docking facilities exclusive of all other uses allowed in the mixed use flum um on August 20th 2024 the Department of Commerce issued a comment letter recommending that the village directly Incorporated the allow uses into the plan I have made that attachment into your into the resolution so in your packet if you're looking at the resolution it's the um fourth whereas where it says whereas a local planning agency and Village Council desire to also create create a new policy 1- 2.11.1 lower mumi mixed use Area 1 the future land use map designation on the subject property shall be lmma ua1 and be limited to the following uses one docking loading and unloading of commercial fishing vessels two manufacture assembly repair maintenance and storage of commercial fishing traps and Nets three uses and structures accessory to commercial fishing such as bait fish tanks and four docking facilities for commercial fishing all other uses allowed in mixed juuse foam will be specifically excluded So based on that change and the approval at first reading of the council staff recommends adoption at second reading I'm not going to go through the entire analysis but if you have any questions after that I'm happy to answer them okay any questions for uh Jennifer okay good evening Ty Harris again uh 110 Plantation Shores Drive I'm here on behalf of the applicant so South um you've got the staff report we've gone over this at nauseum my client said from the beginning that they were only interested in doing commercial fishing we accepted the sub area policy the Department of Commerce has has also uh accepted that it's in the revised resolution and with that uh we would respectfully ask you to approve it on second reading and I'm here if you have any questions thank you okay all right so we're going to open testimony for for those in favor are you in favor yes okay go ahead I was here for the first reading I've been here all the way through this situation my name is Van Cadenhead and I've always been a proponent of commercial fishing and uh having uh accessible Waterfront for commercial fishermen and access to the property immediately adjacent for their trap storage and historical traditional uh uses that have gone on this property my only uh uh qualm uh during the the first discussion was the fact that it was it seemed to me like with the mixed use uh designation there was a Poss possibility of having the elephant stick his nose into the tent and then later on the entire elephant came into the tent but it seems like uh the the changes have been made that are uh acceptable that they have been limited by the sub area agreement that those things cannot happen and they have been restricted to commercial fishing only and things directly related to commercial fishing there won't be any Tiki Bar build there there won't be any tackle shop built there there won't be you know I mean live bait tanks is to do with commercial fishing so that's acceptable so uh I would urge you to uh go ahead and and pass this and I would thank you for being very thorough in the discussion leading up to this and uh to the planning department for making those uh sub area changes to the what was discussed in the first reading so thank you very much all right next we have anybody else who's in favor all right with that being said we'll close that then those who oppose Su lower mumi I love commercial fishing it's a non-conforming use now and I believe it should stay a non-conforming use and um the uh areas where this is located is um the most susceptible area in the village for damage during a storm and um it's right across from sea beach there's so so many issues with that particular location this area was not included in the lawsuit that went with the other soj the adjoining sojourn property so they were satisfied with what was there at the time they didn't ask for anything to be changed then and I think we should just leave it right the way it is thank you very much thank you Mr Harris briefly the reason that we went for the change and was you can't do docks that would be the expansion of a of a non illegal non-conforming use which is not allowed under the code and to protect that Shoreline that we've all seen get blown out with with you know hurricane holes over the years and protect that Mangrove Fringe and to actually make a little money on the property with docks we had to change this to um commercial fishing so that we could protect the existing use and protect the shoreline and that's the reason we're doing it and there's no other reason which is why it's restricted to just commercial fishing thank you Council anybody have any questions for Mr Harris no okay all right so do I hear a motion and this would be on Tab C we'll take them SE I'll move for approval do I hear a second I'll make a second all right Marne would you uh call the role please we have a motion in a second council member Mark Greg yes vice mayor Sharon Mahoney yes council member Elizabeth jolen no council member Henry Rosenthal no and mayor buddy Pender yes the motion passes three to two all right tab D I'll move for approval oh we well we don't have to okay I thought you have do I do them separate uh yeah we do them separate so yeah motion to approve T would be appropriate all right go ahead Mark move for approval second all right Marney we have a motion in a second please call the role council member Mark Greg yes vice mayor Sharon Mahoney yes council member Elizabeth Jolan no council member Henry Rosenthal no and mayor buddy Pender yes that motion passes three to two okay so Henry I'm going to request if nobody else has anything else uh request for motion for adjournment no you got some okay yes I would love to say um I did say I wasn't going to say anything else but I lied about that so give me 30 seconds um I am want to just close I have um thoroughly enjoyed almost almost every minute of being here um I want to uh thank Rob John Jennifer Marne staff I know we have not always seen eye to eye but I have certainly appreciated your patience um and um and I wish you all the best of luck and thank you very much um I want to just highlight some things that this council did because um I think that um we should be pleased with our work we welcomed a new manager we um initiated a comprehensive plan action how exciting we initiated a strategic master plan for the park we um hired a resiliency coordinator very very exciting um we I think were the group that um initiated the building moratorium um and I know that was difficult for this community and we gave direction to withhold early out affordable allocations um in order to actually put some U muscle behind the idea that we believe in Workforce housing so thank you very much for um working together and um I've certainly appreciated my time here thank you thank you Elizabeth yeah I appreciate that too um I also have enjoyed working with all of you and uh I have come to respect you more than you'll know and I feel great sense of comfort that I I'll be leaving here and and the village will be in excellent good hands is that a good way to say that excellent hands for the next group that comes behind us and for the benefit of of the public and I was reflecting on this earlier and you know I started in in this round of service in the year 2000 and we went through three managers and three temporary managers we have two attorneys uh three planning directors two clerks um two two Finance directors a new resiliency officer I'm sure I'm forgetting more but um it those those were some hard things to go through but look where we landed and it couldn't be better so I'm really proud to have been a part of that and uh I I think we left the place I I I feel like I was a boy scout for a while I feel like I'm leaving the place in a better condition than when I found it uh and so I have some pride with that and to the council you know we had some tough times and we fought like cats and dogs and I didn't think it was going to come back but I'm so grateful that we proved the the the Skeptics wrong and uh we we reach some low moments but it's just proof that you you don't have to stay there and we accomplished a lot we I learned from you all I appreciate every conversation we had good or bad um some of it was fun some of it wasn't but uh overall overall I I think the people got their money's worth out of us and uh and I and I think the future for is marata is bright and I was very proud of what we just did a few minutes ago by setting the tone for the future and giving hope and um giving uh opportunity for success for the next group that comes by so um I look forward to seeing you around the hood thank you thank you Mark Henry yes thank you well this is the last time us you'll have the honor to address you as your Council Pres person and your elected representative of this community of course as you know this role has been brought many highs and many lows at my Advanced age I will not likely live to see the results of many of the decisions made on Council during my terms however I did the best of my ability and made some much decisions that I am proud of and believe to be correct as I stand down to make way for other candidates who want to make a positive impact on the direction of our community I have some important advice to offer this includes some benefits and some drawbacks the benefits include the people who want who walk up to you in the grocery stores in a hardware store rotary lunch chamber commer lunch and church to thank you for how you've voted on something that make their lives better the drawbacks are the the people that do call you 24/7 to complain about things there are PE other people who go gunning for you your opinions and your reputations these are things I did not expect and did not deserve but I'm giving you the heads up to on this because it will happen so as I bow out of this Town Council seat please know I am not going anywhere I will continue to play an active role in decisions that shape our beautiful community God bless you God bless the United States of America and with that I bet you ad do thank [Laughter] [Applause] you I'd like to say something if I can don't look at me I'm getting emotional I don't know why the staff you guys have become to be my friends and I'd like you guys are like family to me I'm I'm thankful for Elizabeth who was the first two females in a while to sit on Council and uh I appreciate the fact that we can be friends and not agree Mark I've learned a lot from you you're extremely smart and knowledged but I've also learned that um there's an answer around every corner and we all have the ability to find it buddy you're like I've known you my whole life and uh it's been a pleasure getting to know you again and Henry look looking at you is like looking at my dad the memories thank you okay I'll miss you thank you a motion now no not yet I have to I was thinking of a couple people that when Henry's up there talking I'm thinking of my dad my dad was good friends with Henry and uh Earl Griffin is another one that was very good friends ear Earl uh Griffin lives right there north of the what used to to be the bowan alley now it's a Publix's there and uh it's where clay has the the party thing there whatever that he sets up but uh ear on Sue Griffin and Sue worked for Mr jcx at the trading post and uh so anyways and I remember when Henry had the well when lb had the canery and and then Henry ended up buying the canery and the the the uh the the turtle actually but uh anyways I remember going over there every now and then and meeting with Henry in his back office okay and Henry was you know everybody knew Henry so anyways Henry it is it's been you know four years we've we've uh We've we've agreed we've disagreed but you know we we did some good stuff like the bridge yes okay so anyways and Mark um you know I've known Mark for quite a while known Linda for a long time time um you know we we we've did a lot of good things here okay uh do we always agree no we but it's okay that we can agree that we can disagree and Elizabeth the same with you uh you know we might have had our moments but we come together we we actually came together on on certain things and you know like you with the environment stuff I'm right there with you Mark is actually you know big on the environment now Sharon uh but anyways I just want to say thank you because it you know we might have been on different ends of the the the Spectrum but we we had to come together on a lot of things that we work together on and uh and then Sharon Sharon is Sharon and she's uh you know we uh we have known each other a long time and uh you know it's uh it's been a pleasure serving with all you guys with each each and every one of you and our staff Mr Cole you know our our our our Law Firm all our staff we've seen a lot of Staff come and go Mark since we we've got on in 2020 so I know some some people may think of us and remember us for our differences but it's important to remember that diversity is a strength and it's not a liability and I think we leverage that to the max here and uh and I'm proud of that well not not the the the fighting but the the the result you and I have a lot in common like the wildlife ctor okay the things Mr Arie balini with Liv Wy is doing and the the the millions of dollars that that man has spend in conservation and protecting the wildlife in the State of Florida and he continues to do um you know and and you know the mitigation stuff I'm very interested in that I've looked at that stuff for a long time the the the conservation and the mitigation stuff that uh so anyways that that's coming through in this Council and I I'll try not to talk too much but I have a little bit longer view back on the council back to 2000 and I can say with with absolute accuracy and confidence that the pendulum has swung in the village from in the old days it was just build build build and now people are thinking more about the environment not just because of climate change but because of quality of life and that it's the it's the key to our economy here and we don't protect it we're going to lose that we're going to lose our livelihoods so I'm really glad to have been a part of that swing of the pendulum that awareness the Consciousness I hope it continues and improves and we'll only get better if it does so well and I have to confess to Elizabeth and you because you came back from that climate Summit thing and you know wanted a resiliency officer and I'm saying God do we really need a brail why don't we work with the county with Ronda heag whatever you know and anyways Elizabeth I have to say I was I was very proud of Alyssa okay and and she is very enthusiastic I think it was a great hire that Jennifer found in that young lady uh and and there's a lot of creativity so I have to say thank you because see you saw I didn't really want it but I went along with it and so um I think that was a a really uh a good thing there and I know you you guys you went to that and I I didn't understand it I didn't I didn't like some of it you know but anyways can we let Henry say it one last time yes Henry you want to call a motion I move to a journ all right done we are a journ e e