##VIDEO ID:lXnKN_ORpr8## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e all right we're going to call this meeting in order into order and uh Marne would you call the role please council member Mark Greg here council member Elizabeth jolen here council member Henry Rosenthal yes vice mayor Sharon Mahoney here and mayor Betty Pender here we have a COR all right Chief would you lead us in the pledge please alance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all all right all right we'll just have a short quick prayer here and we'll get rolling Lord we just thank you for this beautiful day that you have made uh we just ask that you would look up look after us and uh lead and guide and direct us in all that we do and we pray for blessings over each council person this evening and their families and all the the staff that is here all the public that's here and those that are watching we just pray blessings over them and over the city of alamada just lead us and guide us and direct us in all that we do in your name we pray amen okay uh public comment is now open Marne do we have anybody signed up yes we do um first up is Don Horton thank you mayor and Council for the record I'm Don Horton 47 scooner Bay Road there was a lot of talk yesterday related to Legal Services and the uh services and the costs and after studying the information given to us yesterday you'll find that the amount that was paid out during Ro's employment totaled up to almost as much as what is being proposed in this budget for the coming fiscal year by way serota fiscal year ending in 22 cost the village $628,500 with an in-house attorney of course that number doesn't include the continuing education a computer a car the fuel and so many other hidden costs that are squirreled away in a government budget uh I'm not U exactly sure uh when R left but I'd also bet that that didn't include his exit payout um and we I don't believe he had 11 lawsuits so if you look at the budget from we serota uh proposed budget at 755,000 that number is all inclusive that's a car computers it people in a pool of awesome Municipal HR and other professionals also keep in mind that uh you approve our agenda at the beginning of our meetings so I'd ask that you stick to the agenda so many people complain about how long meeting last but if you've got one chot at public comment then I would say stick to that agenda and leave that alone I don't think this is a discussion this is a presentation that we all need to listen to so thank you thank you Don who's next Marne Ben K head afternoon I'm van kadid from Alam marada well I'm we're back here again once again to the budget workshop and uh every year it seems like Henry and I ask for roll back because if we do roll back you give the people that pay your salaries a break and even with rollback we're still going to have a a healthy tidy sum and we're just not going to have quite as much excess extravagance and ability to spend money so uh I would ask you to seriously consider the roll back number that's in front of you and uh 3.0 is uh the the highest we can go and uh clearly uh I think you would agree that that's not necessary and the the number that we had for this year uh was was uh sufficient but unfortunately for the people that live here um our our taxable ADV arm value of the four islands of vam Mara has gone from 1.1 billion to 6.5 billion and last year it was 5.7 billion which means that in one year we have accumulated $730 Million worth of of material growth on these four little islands and to me that's uh it it's nice for people that are wanting to see their property values increase but for people that want to live here and work here here and have their families here and have have a reasonable uh Economy based on a egalitarian spread of visitors not just a uh five-star U Top ofthe Line uh K Nast visitors um then I think you should consider roll back and give the people of Alamar a break because uh the the the cretion we've had in the last year of our uh taxable Ador and value it's appalling it's obscene and it's totally unsustainable so thank you very much all right Marne who's next next Joe wishm yes Joe wishm Plantation key Mr Mayor and Council I am speaking today to implore you to lower the proposed millage rate of 3 Mills taxable value in the village was up 72 $9 million with no help from Legoland Sun Country at a rate of three mills village Revenue would be up over 18% I am sure that citizens income did not come close to that amount maybe if you didn't spend over like $1.7 million on Pavilions when a large thatch Hut and restrooms would have sufficed and serve the purpose our rate could be lower with the current general fund balance sending 93024 at1 5,530 $126 at a millage rate of 2.78 last year where is the necessity to raise the rate to three at that proposed rate it appears that the general fund balance at 9325 would be up to1 18, 96449 180 why must the residents be help responsible to increase The Village's bank account by more than $3 million by going to the roll back rate of 2.52 means the projected general fund rate for 9325 would still increase by over $400,000 as mayor Pender said at yesterday's meeting meeting you all were elected to represent the public with an increase in taxable value of $729 million do the response responsible thing for those of us struggling to maintain our residences in the village that we chose spending has gotten out of control in the village while citizens have had to tighten up our belts to make ends meet so should you with only 7,000 residents in our small village a budget of over $24 million seems very excessive how does that compared to other small communities help us survive and don't just pad The Village bank account lastly at a public meeting in a public place you should allow public to speak we sit here or watch on Zoom for hours and hours because we care so the least you can do is listen to us for three minutes on certain important issues thank you anybody else yes we have next up is Sue Miller Sue Miller lower matumbi today you're going to talk about millage rates the staff presented you with the effect of different millage rates I created a chart from the staff scenarios to make it simpler you heard eloquent presentations from department heads about improvements they hope to make no members of the public who will pay for the added costs were invited to provide their ideas some residents might like a tax break some extra money for groceries as a council you continually discuss the priority concerns that will end up as significant future costs to our community not really optional costs but necessary costs like potential cost of takings claims just weeks ago you discussed having a new budget line item for land acquisition and taking cost it's not in this budget Workforce housing no single mention of Workforce housing in the budget all businesses have difficulty finding employees not just the village why not budget some funds to subsidize rents instead of building more housing that really hasn't proven to be effective enough check my chart that I've provided none of the millage scenarios provided to you by the staff impacted the requests the department heads made yesterday all scenarios include the salary increases all include the new projects proposed yesterday none alter the funding available for Hurricane recovery they only change the fund balance left at the end of the year September 2025 at three Mills of fund balance will be $18 m965 th000 at 2.95 to7 Mills the millage approved by you last September a fund balance of18 million 678 th000 at 2.5 297 Ms the roll back rate a fund balance of $1,985 th000 the fund balance you approved last September was 14.6 Million isn't 15.98% million of an almost $16 million in fund balance is restricted to Hurricane recovery leaving $6 million for a rainy day one less severe than a hurricane you could even restrict some of that $6 million to land acquisition and Workforce rent subsidies one more thing lack of public participation I hope one day Alam marado will understand that government works better when there is transparency and robust public involvement thank you very much is there anybody else yes I have a caller on Zoom let me pull her up okay uh caller with the last four numbers of one 0139 go ahead hi this is Joan sches thank you Council and thank you sue Miller for breaking down the Mills uh in logical ways I'm going to Echo many of the other presenters and just say that I think we should go with the roll back and I think we should have every real estate property pay their fair share of taxes including Sun Communities thank you anybody else no sir that's it go ahead comment is now closed Henrys to say sometime ago the manager put out a statement every week as where we are with different projects etc etc I was probably the first to recommend to him to publicize that and you did to the great uh appreciation from a lot of people recently you said this please mark your calendars for our budget meetings scheduled for Wednesday August 21 through Friday August 23 these sessions will include a financial overview department head presentations suppor of their yearend 2425 budget request all members of the Alam Community are welcome and encouraged to watch online and attend in person their primary budget hearing will take place Etc on September the 5th what I'm emphasizing is the statement all members of the alamana community are welcome and encouraged to watch online or attend in person very well said however once attending in person they're not allowed to talk oh they got three minutes at the top but that's it I'm proposing a situation where public comment be after the council discusses a topic then when the public makes a comment they have a background other than a printed word to talk about it I I've been proposing public comment over four years the mayor had a problem at the last meeting his intention was to follow the outline that's right and the outline of the staff I suggest to you buddy that you be the last person to look at that outline that you participate in that outline the agenda agenda okay I don't know if you're going to be here next year and if you are I don't know if you're going to be May or not but any future Mayors should be a part of that agenda you should have the last word not the staff not the manager not the council you you're over everybody I just want to bring it up because I think you're entitled to do that and you should do that so that's my statement I strongly suggest that we make an arrangement of some kind where the public can speak throughout this meeting to address whatever we're talking about they're not really informed they don't know what we're going to say are they going to object to something that I'm going to say let them say it they're not going to object to it before I say it that's for sure once again I have changed my vote several times not several times twice as a matter of fact over four years because of the public something that was said that I was not aware of so I'm very much in favor of the public speaking not only three minutes at the top of the meeting but throughout the meeting it doesn't have to be on every subject and I don't know if we're governed by the three minutes or not but it doesn't have to be three minutes we had a mayor one time that was going to have the public comment for 30 minutes and that was it because he felt the meetings were going too damn long I don't care have to how long the meeting go as long as the public has the input they are the boss of this town not the five of us those people out there are the boss and I want to hear from them and I don't want to be them to be restricted throughout the meeting that they can't make a comment and we have to vote for the next person to get up and talk so I've said it I've said it for four years I've said it again again I got a couple more more meetings to go and I don't hope I don't have to say it again those the the those are the important people okay so let me ask you a question sure okay every I'm sorry okay van we we'll take care of it okay you don't have to holler please be calm cool no be calm cool and Collective man I'm not going to I've been very gracious with you for a long time man and you're not going to sit here and like you did at vice mayor Mahoney a couple weeks ago you need to show some respect to us man as well all right so Henry yeah when we have a regular council meeting on a Tuesday and a Thursday they can speak after every tab on the agenda it is every after there's a public comment on every single tab okay so if there's 10 tabs they that one person sits here and speaks on every tab can speak for 30 minutes so I can't say I I can't agree with you that we don't allow public comment now our attorney says and and you know as well as me that that when we've did budget workshops we have public comment just like it's on it's the third item on the agenda today but this is a time for us to talk amongst each other and our staff but they have time in the very beginning there is public comment they can speak about anything they want okay but to sit here and just come every time and every time okay when it's in a workshop that we're trying to get things done I I I disagree with you the regular council meeting the land use I agree with you they can talk okay they should be allowed to talk every Tab and they do okay and we used to let people just raise their hand but we had to have some order because it just gets like you know it it it the people just want to they talk and then they want to talk again so I've been to meetings for years with the Florida Keys Aqueduct they get one shot to talk okay and I know this is Aqueduct but you know what we got to have some uniform when we put a moratorium on on permits or we we now we've put something no more new administrative release what are these people going to say if we vary we come back somebody comes in here and they want to come and scream at us about well we got to give them their administrative relief what's the difference what's good for the goose is good for the gander the way I feel okay and I mean we all see through different islands and we can dis we can all agree that we disagree so your point is well taken and I I appreciate what you're saying however the manager sent out this welcome all members of the Alam Mar Community are welcome and encouraged to watch online or attend in person hey attend in person why would anybody attend in person to sit here and listen to us and not be a part of that conversation if if you invited the public to your house and you show them go ahead America's Got Talent for La of a better right you've invited these people to our house and they're going to sit there and they're going to watch us talk about things but they can't have anything to say about it I'm talking about this meeting now I'm not talking about the regular meetings that you spoke of I'm in agreement with you there okay but I'm just talking about here I said it last meeting these people took the time to leave their house get in their car drive here with the anticipation of being a part of this meeting and they can't talk they can't say say anything so that's my position I don't know what the Cur is you run the show run the show for the public as well as ourselves okay that's all I ask okay so so go go ahead Elizabeth yeah um Henry I I um thanks for your your commentary um it looks like right here on our agenda that that there is provision for the the group to change the meeting format and to have discussion um I know that because we've learned over the years here that um we create the meeting schedule we as an organization as a council so we can we can change that if we want we should and I and I appreciate having the conversation now instead of in the middle of the meeting where there is confusion um it says that a consensus of council is required to reopen public comment can I suggest that before we get into the meet of the dis this discussion that we decide as a group if we want to allow public comment on one or two occasions and then just end the conversation and move on with the meeting so maybe we can have that conversation now um does that work for everyone well first of all I have to apologize this is the first time I've seen the agenda and the reason it's the first time is when I walked out of the house about a half hour ago if that's what it was there that one that meeting that folder you have is not what we're on tonight this is for tomorrow see how much I know I don't even know what the hell it is that's okay that's the 50 and c3s that we talked about in their presentation all right so I apologize to everybody for my language and being late and everything else but but additionally your point is well taken it's a workshop and it's important we're spending millions of dollars and you know just to weigh in and then let's maybe just move it along I am happy to hear another round of public comment at some point in here let's insert it and then and there we go I mean anywhere in the meeting but let's decide now rather than the middle of the meeting but we we make Elizabeth we make okay policies and procceed procedures and regulations and then we never follow what is what okay why do you have policies and regulations and procedures or standard operating procedure but you never follow them okay and that's how chaos happens you come you even get upset over it sometimes that and you want to call point of order what we're doing but it's it's because things start getting all over the place either we follow what we should do okay I mean hey that's why I'm suggesting let's figure it out now before our meeting starts if we're going to open if we want to have it let's put it in here and insert it so we have an expectation and then let's move on and then we'll follow it I would just like to say we have a time limit on this meeting we're bookended at 6 o'clock we can have as much or as little as you want I don't care I like it too but figure out how to do both but I'd like to say another thing you're very familiar with South Florida Water Management I go to their meetings you know what three minutes you got to sit down and they don't don't let you come back again unless it's on a separate tab okay so I Sharon you're good at the neutral the middle of the road thing why don't you suggest a solution to this and then so we can move it along what I would say is that um this has clearly been a problem it has but it's also been a problem that we imposed so to me the solution is that whether this Council or the next Council deals with it it has to be readdressed it just does because no one's happy I agree with you Elizabeth that let's insert it in tonight's meeting so we can move on but you know we do get blamed when we don't do something when we do do something so this obviously I know Henry hasn't been happy with it and sometimes I'm not happy that they should have input but this is really our decision our problem so my suggestion would be for whether the next Council or this Council changes the way it's done so it is followed as procedure I mean it's only fair let me ask you go you got everybody a question up here I got phone calls today and people said we voted you in office to represent us all five of us were represent by the residents and you know what they said if there's a problem Mr Pender we will be there we're going to come and speak okay but if there's not a problem we're relying on you and the four other Council people to make decisions okay so obviously it's not everybody in the village is unhappy because uh our room could be overflowing like it was with Jillian at at the thing but obviously and I've been to many meetings that they couldn't even let the general public all the general public speak so because there were so many people here they had to cut it off okay when Publix was going on we were here until midnight when they were when when Publix grocery store so if I've had many people call me and say you know what you're doing a good job we think the council's doing a good job and you know what hey if there's a if there's an issue we will show up and we'll show up in numbers and we'll let you know but if not but but I don't see us having a 100 people here every meeting to coming all 100 people are sitting here complaining how bad we are bu everybody's opinion is important goad no let's just agree that this needs to be readdressed whether it's this Council the next Council but let's just move on with this tonight next Council well I do because I know you don't I care about this I do too Henry but I'm not saying not to let them talk you're you're not listening and the point is this is a problem that we have instituted if we want to change it then we need to change it okay let's well let's let's change it add it in add it in and let's move on can that be how can we address the people that took the time I get it I get it I get it after let's just add public comment after C you want to do that that after C is that agreeable I'm happy with that is everybody okay with that wait a minute what C are you talking see is millage rate discussion with alternate scenarios on the script on the script sheet on the script handout on the script that's not the right here on on the agenda Mark yeah and that gives everybody the chance and again this is something that has to change Henry and I agree it has to be changed but he's trying to stick to what is we've decided on and we do keep jumping around and changing it and we have to have consistency we voted on let's change it when Brian was here from the county we people got to sign up they got to sign up before the tab starts and all that you got to have some kind of uniform let's let's let's okay so what are we going to do is there a consensus of at least three of us that want to do this after see y four sure okay okay yes okay got it okay so we're going to do public comment then okay for three minutes all right and this is only at this meeting we're deciding this we're not changing our policy right here okay at at this meeting we're going to do public comment here okay and and the reason I got upset last night is because I'm only following the the script the agenda that I was given and you know what when all five of us started our meeting and we don't nobody speaks up and says I have an emergency addition or deletion and then all of a sudden we we deviate from our you you you know you guys want me to deviate from our script come on uh I want you to be the last guy seeing the script and you okay it that's what I want the last guy you got the power to be the I understand Henry but there's five of us and if there's a consensus it ain't going to matter guys you ever heard the story about beating the dead horse I'm going let's move on let's let's go ahead and start with a then we did get something yes we did M Mr Mayor and councel I think we always forget some of us forget that you know public comment is critical to what we do we we can't function well without it but there's more than one way to do that and some people don't want to come to the meetings for I think obvious reasons but they can still communicate with us we all have telephones we all have emails and through the magic of electronics we can talk to each other without seeing each other we get calls you get them I get them emails so if for one reason or another where you figure you're denied access to us here or you just simply don't want to show up you can always call us send us something in advance yeah it's nice to be here where everybody can see you on TV but that doesn't always happen but if you're write that becomes a public record and everyone can see that and it's much much more meaningful sometimes to have it in writing laid out in front of you where you can reflect on that before you get to the meeting or even after but those are alternative so don't think that we don't listen and we don't care because we do and then that's why we have more than one way to hear from you so please take advantage of that I mean Mark like like this that guy Harold that lived down there the doctor about his garbage you know what he called Sharon called me I made the phone calls we called him back he's he came and thanked us but I get phone calls and I'm sure each one of you do okay get phone calls and I know Elizabeth you like but I'm giving true stories of residents that call and say you know what thank you thank you you're doing a good job thank you that you took care of this or thank you that you took care of that now hen I know Henry's got them I know you've got them I know Sharon and I know Elizabeth's probably got him but you know what hey it's not you know they don't have to come here they can call us they can send us an email they can send it to our Clerk and we got to address it or they can call our manager and we got to address it so anyhow uh let's move on thank you for the opportunity okay Henry thank you uh let's move on to council discussion a okay Mr Cole thank you mayor I appreciate the opportunity to to continue to discuss our proposed Village budget I'll just cover briefly uh last night's meeting or yesterday afternoon's meeting actually and what we discussed at that point are having the we did a financial overview um and Lisa our village Finance administrator was uh able to provide that for us provided a lot of in-depth detail about our financial position uh department heads were able to provide their presentations arguing for or supporting uh their request for the fiscal year 2425 and the millage rate that we focused that budget on was three we presented two scenarios last night three and the roll back rate at a mill three that would have resulted in a levy that is the cash that we get from the taxes of about 18.95 million representing about a $262 26 increase in the median uh value of a home on that person's property tax bill for the ISA marada ver uh proportion of the of the uh tax bill so tonight what we're hoping to do is to get into a little bit further detail on the military provide various numbers so that you guys can talk about them see what the implications are from a property tax perspective uh see where we stand uh financially and what potentially we may need to modify to hit a particular Target that uh that council is interested in so the the target we're heading towards at the end of the day today would be to have some general guidance on a millage rate the one that was discussed yesterday both three and the roll back uh neither of those are fixed in stone and we're not going to be voting on one tonight either a decision on that will not be made until the September 5th um budget hearing where we'll uh present the tenative budget based on the feedback that we've received through these meetings and even have further discussion at that point as to whether or not we've struck the right balance between taxation services and needs that our departments have presented to council and and the public so the next item that we'll move into um before we get to the military discussion would be um Council question and answers on the department presentations from last night so having had a little bit of time to think about that although I recognize it's a short timeline nonetheless uh if there are additional questions about last night's presentations where we have our staff available to answer them and uh I would encourage members of the council to present those questions at this time Mark do you I have a general question so we heard the wonderful presentations and that were very well done and the presenters were all very well prepared so I appreciate that uh but in the event that we decided that we wanted let's say we just determined we wanted to approve everything that was uh presented in every one of those budgets by every one of the department heads what would the millage rate need to be in order to fulfill that as presented yesterday that would be three now there's a number of permutations and combinations and uh one of our public speakers highlighted that we have different levers we can press to to change things right uh we have our our fund balance and we'll get into that discussion I suspect as we enter into the millage rate discussion um because there's monies there that we can use for non-recurring expenses uh typically you don't want to allocate fund balance towards a budget to suppress the numbers unless it's on a non-recurring expense the reason for that onetime expenses okay we can use fund balance for a one-time expense because it's not going to come back again next year uh we don't want to from a policy perspective staff would suggest get in the habit of using a fund balance to defay recurring expenses like Staffing or insurance or things like that because what that does is it creates an artificial suppression of the levy and then it has to catch up the following tax year and if we were to get in the mode of continually drawing down fund balance for recurring expenses uh we'd have a structural deficit in our our budget that sooner or later would come back to bite us with a significant tax increase or be confronted with the need to curtail services or Staffing because of those kinds of decisions so it's very important particularly over time not to use fund balance to pay uh recurring expenses so we'll talk about that as we head in that direction so so with the exception of the yet to be determined amount uh of compensation under the collective bargaining agreement if we liked if all of us it would be a miracle I know but if all of us agreed that we liked everything in here as presented that millage rate would have to be 3% is that a fair statement to say not including the excluding the collective bargaining um there would be yet another alternative we could identify for instance um some Capital project or other non-recurring project that is being charged to the general fund as opposed to some other Revenue source and if we used fund bounds to pay for that particular item or items that could in theory bring the uh millage rate down a little bit by the amount of that expense that we'd be trading off and paying in fund balance but at the same time recognize it's a scale right if we take the money over here from fund bounds and pay for what was being paid in general fund uh we're going to have less money in fund bounds available for other purposes but that's certainly a a decision we can make consciously and still fund the entire budget just move the source of the funding ever so slightly to to accommodate that type of request and in fact fact when we finish this conversation on millage rate staff are going to go back and we'll say okay here's the millage rate that council is kind of leaning towards right and we'll take a look at all of our numbers and we'll come back with at tenative budget time with a proposal that looks at what we believe to be the best way to achieve that balance either a using fund balance to uh pull it down or B making some decisions to cut something if we really had to we would like to support allar department and heads needs and requests because they've Justified them quite well uh so we'll be as creative as we can but those levers are are both in play uh based on Council direction today and between now and the point that you get that tenative budget proposal right so I think I have one one or two more questions and then I'm sorry for go ahead you asked me first so but maybe I'll help you I I'll ask some questions you guys would might like to ask and I'll save time in the long run so uh I personally and I know some other council members have been interested in purchasing lands for conservation purposes for Habitat protection for retirement of building rights or others add to the list as you see fit so I I did not see I saw some I'll call it lip service to that in here but I didn't see a level that I was satisfactory uh satisfacted to me so in order to uh let's say for example we wanted to add a half million or $2.5 million whatever that might number might be based upon the way it's presented at this moment we would need to either eliminate something in a department head's line item or more than one department head or go to a uh balance an account that we already have the money and transfer that for that purpose or a combination of those or pray that the money falls out of the sky those would be the three options I think so uh is and then I I'll tag on this was there a consensus of the council that we change the nomenclature of the line that I don't like about the landscape mitigation fund those are diametrically opposed things we we are not mitigating any landscape we're mitigating habitat loss so if you want a separate fund for landscape projects great I'm in and the other one for Habitat restoration that would be in my view and I would like to ask the council if that's something that we can fix if you think it's wrong like I do can we fix that um yeah I I think if councils generally supportive staff are clearly supportive of it so in my mind it's it's a slam dunk yes we can change the words and we thought of maybe habitat restoration fund you know when you think of the word landscape there's also this whole field called landscape ecology and it talks about how humans development and environment interact and it's a whole field of ecology so some staff don't have the objection to the word landscape but they also don't object to changing it to something else to to make it very clear what we're intending to do so in short yes we can change that unless I'm hearing something from Council saying we don't want to call it habitat well my point is that there's messaging in the name and I think that the the purpose of the fund should be consistent with the name of the fund so that's my point so if we could achieve that I would leave a happy man tonight that that's so yes are we all in agreement that we can change the land mitigation fund to the habitat restoration fund is does anyone care that's really what I that doesn't mean we can't have a landscape fund we can but it's the source of the funds and we've spoken about this we had two votes on it in the last three or four meetings and I I thought that was enough to kind of at least give a foothold on the policy that those funds should be used for the purposes that are mentioned in the in the code and the C plan rather than to creatively interpret other uses for them so Mark you brought up two points one is renaming a fund that's one point and then the second issue you're I heard you bring up was about um finding funding for land acquisition so can we talk about those two separately you can I just got them on the table at the same time but yes ma'am that would be fine with me yes okay um staff were aware of the request to kind of think about land acquisition we were going to be waiting for a little bit of council Direction on what magnitude before we bake something into that but what I would say about that is depending on what that number is whether it's 500,000 or it's 1 million um certainly as we're looking at the budget at president we'll get into this conversation and see uh there's a a document that we distributed to each of you and it has the ending fund balance associated with each of these different millage rate options that are on the table uh it also tells you at the bottom how much Reserve uh Council policy would dictate for hurricanes that number at the bottom is 9.7 million dollar 9.8 if you round it I suppose um and that's based on Council Direction prior Council direction for it to be 40% of expenditures so if you take that 9.7 and subtract it from any of those uh balances that appear in the ending fund balance column you end up with our unrestricted fund balance now General uh accounting practices that the uh the government Finance Officers Association has some best practices on what you want to maintain in those reserves generally it's not less than two months of your operating expenses so what does that mean well if we're in between two to three months of operating expenses we're probably in the realm and I'm going to Ballpark it here so those of you at home with your appic cases please don't call me out for being not exactly right um but um it'll put us somewhere between let's say 3.2 and $4.6 million as a recommended Reserve to uh span uh General operating reserves or emergencies whatever you want to call it a rainy day fund and that's recommended as a financial best practice what makes our reserves unique is that we have an exceptional Hazard that many cities across the US don't have so while gfaa is standard for a unrestricted fund balance is that two to three month month range they attach a significant Proviso to that in that you also have to be aware of particular hazards or things that are unique to your local environment that may require some other uh funding that's why we have the hurricane uh Reserve um and speaking with our Emergency Operating people including Chief Abel um they believe that number is pretty close to what we should have in the event of a major hurricane I've checked with Monroe County their Reserve is $10 million for a hurricane and I believe because Marathon combines theirs with something else theirs is even well beyond either one of us when it comes to what's in that Reserve labeled as hurricane but they have other things in it as well so so we believe that numers in the ballpark does it mean because it's a standard that we have to always comply with it no we can bring it up or down as Council determines is appropriate for both our risk profile and our needs at that particular time so back to the core question about land acquisition uh is there money within the fund balance as presently exists and assuming we don't have to use it to close other budget gaps in the general fund um I would say yes that money is there and you can either a leave it right where it's at and continue to do what we do or B uh we could receive direction from Council to establish a specific account to put it in so that it just kind of sits in that account and is separated from the rest of the unrestricted fund balance so that um we know how much is there and when we go to acquire property that would be the first place we would look to do that and then if necessary augment it with other Financial sources and I'll add one other potential option because you laid them out quite well Councilman Greg in terms of what they might be one other option could always be that you could go with a conventional loan spread the payments out that kind of thing if Council were so inclined on a particular purchase to do that that might be one way to kind of rebuild reserves if you're in a mode where you needed to do that and I don't believe we are at this juncture based on what we have but if one were that would be an option on the table as well okay so so Henry let me ask one question real quick to rob about that so Rob are we do we have this money like I know that we had 10 million with FL class that we got like 350 to 400 uh an interest that we made in a year on that money is this money this 9.7 almost 9.8 million is are we making any interest on this money there's another there's another conversation that we need to tee up about this particular and Lisa mentioned it yesterday she said that she was going to be reaching out to a financial advisor why is that because one of the first things I did when I came here and one of the first things that Lisa did when she comes here anybody who's done this for any length of time is you look at those accounts and you say okay are we maximizing our potential for interest income and our previous policy the one that's been adopted by councel and correct me if I'm wrong Lisa but I believe I'm pretty accurate I think it's about 10 million was the limit that we could put with FL class now maybe that's appropriate maybe it's not I think we need to have a discussion around that because we also have in addition to something like this parked funding for the hurricane money which is around that $10 million amount um we have potentially the option to look at you know are spending over time and figure out in those bank accounts do we never dip below a certain line right the rest of that money 30 some OD million dollars that one of our speakers spoke about is there to pay bills right and and it's allocated already it's appropriated to pay things it's not just sitting there but those bills don't all come do at the same time and that money you will fluctuate up and down month-to month as contracts get paid out and what have you but when you analyze it over a longer period of time you can sometimes see there's kind of like a line in there in your cash flow where you're never really dipping below that line even though it's it's restricted so there may be an argument based with in working with a good financial advisor who monitors it monitors it very closely to say okay maybe we can get short-term Investments whether they're you know 90day T bills or something this money is going to be there all the way up until December let's put it in for six months or maybe uh FLC or or one of these uh pooled funds that's authorized by the state of Florida has a money market type thing that actually beats the the T bills and that's what we experienced back in New York actually was we found a entity kind of this parallel back in New York that was able to actually beat the uh treasury rates on a sustained basis with cash liquidity and mil Mill risk so those are the things when you're looking at investment is low risk cash liquidity and ability to manage your money so that you can maximize revenue and reduce the tax burden and and so we'll have that convo and and interest rates are better today than they were a couple years ago and but I talked to Matt last week and I said man why don't you come talk to our whole Council he's he's he's willing to do that I went to his Booth when he was there in exhibit hall and had a very good conversation with him and so you know and plus Lisa I mean there there's others out I mean that we can search out and and try to get the best bang for our dollar and get into cash flow management so we can potentially even get a bigger bang out of that bu so that's that's the advisor question that that Lisa raised yesterday Henry I'm sorry for not uh for continuing to speak ahead all right I I enjoy your presentations the 10 million is at 5% right if I remember correct corly uh Mr Yates the previous uh manager made that Arrangement he also I guess with us the previous Council made the arrangement of the hurricane situation which was I believe at 20% one time it was raised with the last Council to 40% as far as hurricane evacuation not evacuation just a problem funds right why are we funding the hurricane to such a large amount we were at 8% for some time if I'm not mistaken you mention the county being at 10 million um the 8 million was certainly in excess of what we needed and if we do need it we go to the bank and we borrow it this is not a big deal and the state will reimburse us may take a little bit but the state will so why are we holding all that cash and reserve and we're just we are the bankers for the city it's not necessary that's my point we have no idea what this next storm is going to be like but furthermore we pay a service to clean up the roads Etc and then they pay the actual service that does the work so why are we putting up all that money for Hurricane Henry I think the last Council the consensus was that 5 million wouldn't if we have a bad hurricane like Irma like Irma hit the Lower Keys 5 million wouldn't even we couldn't touch anything for 5 million if I'm saying we can go get5 million I I understand I that's a that is a policy decision for this group are you asking us to have that conversation right now I mean is that what you I'm just adding on what the manager I I'd like to weigh in on that because I know some of that I mean I'm not everything I'm not an expert but if you go back and look at how we handled Irma versus how the state handled it and the other municipalities and marathon and the keys we had the cash we we did borrow but it was like a line of credit that I don't think we used if we did use it it was a very small amount and and after a storm it is extremely competitive to get good Services here and you might recall there was a time where the governor Scott at that time actually came in and hijacked some of the uh did from here took them to the Lower Keys and so you know when the Grits hit the fan no punt intended there in a hurricane uh it's the high dollar that gets the work done and sometimes that makes a huge difference on how fast you can recover so we have access to the money but what I think your issue is if if and correct me if I'm wrong Henry is that we've got all this money sitting without any kind of return on it and I think that was Rob's point that you've identified that and maybe what we're wanting to ask is what kind of timeline are you working on Rob to take a look at that I mean we have $34 million which is sort of doing nothing and and that might that might be a middle ground between um having this money ready and available to us but also giving us a return right and so maybe we're asking for some sort of timeline on like what is this a five-month project a you know maybe it's a two-month project where you you address that Rob let me interject one thing there real quick because what Mark said was very important okay if people remember all the refrigerator freezer all the appliances that were lined up on the old road over there refrigerator row they called yeah those guys worked here for us but they were offered more money and went to Big Pine Key and worked out of there because they were getting paid I I forget what the numbers were but it was like three times what we were paying to get hijacked yeah yeah and that caused a delay in recovery and businesses opening back up and people getting back in their homes and getting back to normal and we had the strength of that account to put the money up front and and to I mean we minimized it but we still were a victim of that but those who have to borrow and borrowing after a storm you you you the creditors look at you very differently than they do before when you've got a $6 billion property overall assessment if we're going to get reimbursed what difference does it make well the question is how and when and how much you get reimbursed and this savings fund helps to eliminate that uncertainty and also how quickly and efficiently you get stuff taken down because if there's no more hurricane disaster teams that are here they're all going somewhere else where they're getting paid more money and getting paid quickly so pay them the money well those people want to know how they're going to get paid before they start work and when we show them we've got the money in the bank they respond a little quicker than the folks that say well wait a minute we'll get back to you I got to call the banker so that that's the way I look at I'm really conservative about this and I mean it's putting us at risk if we don't have everything available to us to to to deal with a storm I mean those things are unpredictable they're getting more common they're getting stronger and now we have the the threat of Rapid intensification that's something brand new where it comes off of Cuba at a two and it hits us at a five we never had that before that was unusual so these are Trends I mean I'm not a weather man and I don't know a lot about that stuff but I know to be scared about things that can happen and be prepared to deal with that upfront and this is an easy way and we can use that money and earn interest on it meanwhile it's right in our back pocket if we need it can we get that response from robt about some sort of time frame for getting some return on that money while it sits there well we're we already have a little over $10 million I think it's 10 million 10.8 about Lisa is that accurate for what how much do we have invested uh 10 million it's a little like 10.8 or something I believe and in terms of reaching out to a financial adviser and talking a little bit about cash flow uh and I want to be clear that $34 million that people keep throwing around is not like the hurricane Reserve that's actually money that we pay out to salaries to contractors to insurance companies so it's it's not uh a reserve of sorts but it does have a baseline in theory on on our expenditures that maybe month to month we don't really dip below and that part that Baseline is what we might want to talk about an adviser about how to schedule that and get it invested to even get more money we'll have to modify our policy our investment policy to be able to do that but getting back to the question of timing um Elizabeth could say I do actually have an appointment with uh an investor next Thursday he'll be down here in the keys and it's from a company called Deep Blue Investments they're out of Tampa Florida um and I've dealt with them for the past probably six or eight years they're very well-versed um in Investments and they have a wide variety of um investment advisor so he will be down here on Thursday to speak with him and they will they're very good about giving investment reports for us coming and speaking regularly to give investment updates so I think we would get a lot out of having that I've never been used to having something like we've got with the uh local government investment pool with Florida Class I've had that before but it's not been to that extent of $10 million it's usually just a smaller portion so so bottom line is we have that meeting coming up we can report back to council and flesh out a little bit of a better timeline as well as uh begin to take a look at that investment policy and advance that back for Council consideration based on those conversations and any increased uh Authority we may need to be able to put even more than the $10 million limit that's prescribed in that present uh uh policy so so there's opportunity uh we're already seizing part of it with as uh councilman Rosenthal cited over about 5% interest or so that's on the 10.8 million that's already there that's effectively the hurricane response in a way that Reserve um but there is additional opportunity to pursue and that's the conversation that we're having with Lisa and and uh trying to uh Circle back to council thereafter just say one more thing when Irma hit here residential construction costs were in the 250 to $300 per square foot range today they're about 700 if you talk to a local contractor because everything has gone up nobody wants to can afford to live here the labor is expensive because it's all brought in everything costs a fortune so I don't even know if what we have now is going to be adequate to cover us if we get nailed by a four or a five storm so I I I'm willing to live with what we have I mean I'd like to increase it but I don't think there's an appetite for that here and that's fine but this there's stuff I worry about this every day and I I just don't think we should play games with it by lowering this and to adjust for that we've done well with it this in the past many of our councils that are diverse tend to agree that's the strength of our community right there and you just saw how much our Collective assets have gone up in value and the faster we get back on our feet the better off we'll be and that money provides the strength for us to do that right away so so Lisa when this company comes can you have it set up to where they could come and talk to the council come to our council meeting and maybe they have ways or they have creative scenarios that they can help us with the storm money or help us that you know tell us that new products that are available or they're they could be very creative right right um absolutely okay all right you have something Le just um if if I think it sounds like we're in agreement with that but then we were we kind of had gotten off track with this land acquisition fund so can we just revisit that and talk about what that might look like well I just kind of was leading up to where could the money come from because it's not in the budget now yeah and how much would we want I mean I I believe if I'm not mistaken there is a provision in our either code plan or both that says we're supposed to have one of these funds to acquire land or to at least to put the mitigation fees in there for that purpose it's not in here uh so I think we should first confirm and John can help us or help me at least to confirm that that's supposed to be in and if it is let's put it in and if so let's put some money behind it let's let's fund it let's get it going but what is your how much do you think we need I mean I mean that would be interesting and and that might be helpful to get some feedback from staff and um this might maybe I don't know exactly who that would be but um we we all know that I mean there's lots of benefit in land acquisition on on so many levels for takings cases for conservation for I don't even know if our policy is is flushed out to the point where it describes what that fund is is utilized for do you know does anyone know it's for restoration of habitat and acquisition of land where habitat can be restored I think she's talking about the reference to the other land acquisition fund that you were describing okay there's there's one yes so okay so that that one I think is uh there's a list that we're supposed to have and a plan that we're supposed to have and a fund to to do all that there there's a whole program there and it's just been blown off for 20 years maybe how about Peter coming up we could bring Peter up here to well I I think the real question is not so much whether we can or should have you know uh an effort to pursue the uh priority properties that are on that list Andor any others that may come to council as requests or priorities right if if you're all in agreement that they're a priority then and we have direction to proceed we can we can try to acquire them I think the real question is how much do you want to put in there and really the answer to that is well you know we've seen properties that have been purchased for 600,000 we've seen properties that have been purchased for $4 million uh with absent a specific property it makes it very hard to say how much money should go in there and that's probably one of the reasons why you don't have a fund established because once a a property acquisition topic comes up let's say like the church that we closed on recently um if that is rising to the level of a priority at Council we figure out how we're going to fund it and generally speaking where we're looking to do that would be if we have available fund balance that's the first place we're looking right and so that amount there can be accessed as can a few other sources of funding to acquire land so when one comes up we either a can identify the funding available to to acquire it or B we might come back with a recommendation that we uh take out conventional financing to get it um another thing we could do is pick a number and put it into an account so that when a property arises that we want to acquire we know at least a portion of it maybe all of it depending on that number is in that fund and it's separate from these other reserves that we have there there are a couple of issues here that that that I think we're getting tangled we're tangling a couple of issues one is and and maybe you can someone here can help me with we in our code it talks about we are we have land and a a list of conservation properties that we that are prioritized for purchase and that is called what um it's it's uh Peter will help me but it's part of the land Acquisitions action plan if I think that's the correct name for that and our code says we need to pay attention to that well they they our land acquisition advisory committee Works to develop that and we're supposed to fund that but that's a separate fund that that is that is different than we want to buy a church and we oh that's different so so I feel like there's a little bit of hesitation could I just finish this one sentence since I'm in the middle of it okay thank you um sorry not sorry actually um I I feel like there's some hesitation to follow the the code that says we're supposed to be looking at these properties and funding and creating a fund in order to purchase them not when we want to but as part of what we do in our daily work that is the fund that we don't have a dedicated funding source for that fund and that that is what that is this conversation I think that that you're bringing forward okay I think we need to let our our Council tell us what that code or what the comp plan says because Mark does I mean Mark just said I think we should bring Peter up Peter does this this is his thing but I think we need to let John tell us what our comp plan and what our code says I I think it was done by resolution there was a uh land acquisition laac land acquisition advisory Council and there was a a set of procedures that were enacted back I think it was in 2003 and then was updated at some point later um I believe it's all it's it's spelled out through resolution and it's it's set forth in there um but it doesn't say like what Rob was alluding to it doesn't say uh the policy decision as to how much do you want to fund um how aggressive do you want a fund but it sets forth a uh parameters for nominating a um uh you know nominating properties how does it get acquired how do you how do you appraise it how do you acquire it and and things like that but it doesn't get into the specific amount as to how much do you want a fund to actually um uh effectuate it okay so can we make a standard operating procedure that would be simple to to do this that you know if Peter is the one handling that that he follows the standard operating procedures I don't know why the five of us couldn't make something that is very simple and it states what it's supposed to do what that fund what properties whether it's repl restoring habitat replanning habitat or whatever it may be it's acquisition that's different than that's there there are two as I understand there are at least two and the one is that joh one that John just mentioned and it's to be funded by I I'll I believe I'd just say the discretion of the council we squeeze the balloon and pull money from here and more over there but the the other one that I've been railing on lately is the one that is to be funded strictly from the fees by permit people that receive a permit and they pay a mitigation fee into a very restricted specialized fund and that money is to be used to restore a habitat somewhere else or buy land that can be restored you know in other words it's scar ified or damaged or whatever it's it's the no net loss of hammock fund and that is in I say that is in the code yes I don't think I think it just says that um it shall be held in an escrow account it doesn't specify the name of it or anything like that but but that is in that one is in the code yeah but that's that money is from mitigation funds so that's that's clear but now so that's let's put that on one side that's one but the two can can work together yes but what I think we're now talking about is in reference to this laac that John brought up that doesn't have a dedicated funding source which is what we I think we're asking for here this is land acquisition fund that is that that is is utilized for this priority list of conservation lands that that's its own thing we don't have a funding source we don't have the simple procedure to direct Pete to go forward Pete can you come up if you're uh out there and just chat a little bit about how properties on that list for first of all become available and the process by which we would bring those to the attention of council for potential acquisition if and when they become available so how we know they become available and how we might go about navigating that and whether that is something that happens automatically or only if someone asks us about sure so I think a lot of what we're talking about has already been done um we have procedures in place for acquiring land the land acquisition advisory committee has uh worked on nearly completed an action plan we're going to have that ready for you uh soon within the next couple months so we do have a priority acquisition list as we're supposed to have we have that this Council approved it so that list has gone to the Monroe County Land Authority they are working on the behalf of the village so they are scanning the MLS uh every day and if one of those properties comes up they will contact us which they have a number of times which we've done with this Council we I think brought two property before you now that have come up for sale we aren't actively pursuing properties on this list that aren't for sale right this is an an active seller uh program so when that happened we brought the properties to the council you the council worked on uh two of those one of those was um the AV investors property and you know amongst discussions the council came up with an offer price an offer was made uh that offer was rejected and you know we kind of are just sitting now waiting on the next move from the property owner realtor so that's the procedure we have in place now can can I ask you a question sure but I I think that the issue for example were you talking about the peon leather property so I think that this group it would have possibly had another response to the request if we had dedicated funds for conservation that had been that that that were in a pool where what we were looking at is well that's a lot of money and we're just going to come up with that out of who knows where and is that fiscally responsible and but but this this idea would be that yeah we prioritize land acquisition of conservation properties and and so when this kind of thing comes up well there's the money it's already been set aside it's available to us property particular was $25 million over appraised value it was we so maybe maybe maybe I Mis maybe I misunderstood that I mean you we all know that everything sells for over most things sell it for over appraised value and this is a unique property and and we were being asked to pull that money from who knows where right and so just just so my my thought is that if we have an active cre an active fund that is being fueled this would be a Noak rer that is an amazing piece of property it's it's Unique it's one and you know we'll never see that again in this town it's going to be a it's going to be a um another Islander and you know next year they've came before Council and got shut down well it's a council's changed so it's under development pressure to say the least it's under development pressure you the Glenn property they wanted two or three million do to begin with three yeah okay and we bought 90 acres for $650,000 so you know because I know I remember having the conversation with Peter but I understand but you know they anybody can ask whatever they want okay but uh they have come before Council and they couple times I I sat in the meetings and they got shut down well listen there there where there is a will there's a way and just take a a moment pull back we bought the island Church property we bought the um Machado Machado properties and we bought Island uh Pender's your relatives old dor yes silver and spice I don't think any of those were in the budget but we decided that we wanted them and the manager not well Rob helped with the church property but we found the money we found because we want that was our determination if we could find that same determination and apply that towards acquiring lands that we know sooner or later we either buy them or let them build on them we need to put our money where our mouth is and make a statement that we're going to start buying these things to save them and the ones that are under development pressure like triage that's the ones we ought to go for first and the ones where people don't even realize that we they have a problem let them sit there and we'll deal with those later but they're they're under development pressure they're applying for federal permanence to fill it in you know we don't know what's going to happen but if we just sit here on our thumbs and do nothing pretty soon you'll see it cleared or developed and then the opportunity is lost and that will be on us but that property has a lot of different habitats I'm sorry to get off on a tangent on that but Elizabeth is right the opportunities don't come along often and you know willing seller is a big part of that but and I don't like getting held up for a overmarking how bad we want to save it and Mark there's also people you're going to learn working with the corridor Wildlife Corridor there's people like Arie balini that has live wildly those these guys are billionaires that they buy property for conservation all conservation all right that's what they're building the river to Sea preserve the Rails to Trails and Florida has over 250 miles of trails now because of that the underpass is under 75 for crocodiles or turtles or whatever I mean it's being done all over state but we're talking okay I understand but I'm saying those people will put up the money okay to help buy properties that may be are just like Monroe County Land Authority will help us but the there's there's other avenues if we but we've never been involved with the wildlife ctor to do this and I've learned all that in the last year that is what is amazing about this opportunity that we have people with your knowledge who can put that information like to work right now in our we have we have a partner with the land Authority who's willing to fund four million plus or minus for that and so if we overpay we're only overpaying the overage we're we are in essence getting the property preserved for half of the appraised value that's the bottom line and so does the owner get a a winfall who knows for forever money too well so yes exactly so and I think that's where Monroe County gets funding from as well there are Partners in that and the stewardship and the other things but you know it's not so much how much do we have to pay it's how much we get to save and and the savings is because the county is our partner so sure Henry go ahead the opportunity is right now right now we're going to look at a budget that I have problems with and once we decrease the budget we're going to have some funding it's right now we can do it right now by the end of tomorrow tonight or whatever if you do it correctly as far as the budget is has been written everybody that came up and spoke about their piece of the action here do did anybody come up and say I'm satisfied I don't need anything every budget hearing I said what did you cut it's a normal thing to say most budgets are there to be cut in the private sector yeah yes to be cut and how are they going to be cut and still maintain the services and this that and the other we don't talk about that this is not Christmas for the city everybody has something that they wanted well they didn't have it last year they still did the job why is that they have to have it this year everybody had something that only they wanted when you do a budget if you if you do it properly you start with zero and you work your way up that's the right way to do a budget not what you have and add to it you start with zero I'm not going to sit here and go for Budget 101 but I do know a couple things I've done it all my life I started when I was 16 years old you can't keep asking you have to look how you can get the job done with at an expense you can do it but that's I don't want to get involved with it but anyway if we make some Cuts with the budget hopefully we can take those cuts and put it where you want it and where you want it it's there right now before before 5:00 tonight or whatever I encourage you to really start to look at that budget I'm going to talk more about the three millage and all that good stuff but I'm going to hold that off to later but now's the time if you want to do it thank you you're welcome Henry vice mayor come on we got to you got to no go ahead don't you want to throw your you don't have you've been sitting here thinking about it list what everybody else wants to say okay do you have a scenario yet no okay all right anybody else yeah I have a couple questions so Henry are you saying that you're willing to support the purchase of the peon Leatherman property if we if we budget it for next year yes oh good okay well that's cool I'll put it on the agenda for next month or for September what is does that cost Pete there go ahead you say I say you're I just think you just want to buy something to me no offense Mark but you and Ted came back with 2 million for the Glenn property and we said no and got it for 650 I'm just just let me just finish you are very wrong about that no I you did not participate in the negotiation and you don't know what you're talking about well then if I don't then I was told wrong and I apologize but is that that's what I was told that you and Ted 3 million they wanted that you and Ted went up there and came back with 2 million but that's not the point that's not point they wanted not we what we agree to well okay so whatever the point is is that we seem to want to just okay if it's overpriced to me it's not smart business I I just don't agree I I just think you you don't pay something that you don't have the value in and I know it's a unique piece of property but there's also different strategies you could take and I know you're not going to agree with me and I don't really want to go over it right now no no no I'm just saying 5 years from now 10 years from now our children and grandchildren will think it's a bargain well then maybe people should have thought about that before they started clearing land when they shouldn't have been clearing it without permits and stuff but that's a whole another story go ahead so the property is listed at $6.7 million I should mention though that the property owners or agents of the property owners have approached the village about the development of a single family residential home with the tennis court court on the property we held a pre-application meeting with them there are some questions about the development potential of the property uh based on its Wetland status so that's where we are right now um I believe the property still is listed for sale however the Agents of the property owner are investigating this development potential that the um village is also questioning right now Peter what did it appraise for 3.5 4 yeah it was right around four 3 8 3.8 yep pet didn't how much of that was available from the county again just remind every so so the county through the Florida forever funding would fund up to the appraised value so it was 3.8 somewhere right around there that could have been funded through Florida forever via the land Authority and who owns the property once it's bought they own it correct no we own it well let no that would so that would stay under State ownership if it's purchased with Florida forever funding The Village would be the um managers yeah we officially the managers of the property but in perpetuity it's it would be conservation property never to be developed this is the same arrangement with green turtle hammock and the cactus property is I right it's not so that that was deed to the Village we're the village is the owners of those property that was deed to the Village different different uh land acquisition program but the management side is the same isn't it yes yes so we are resp responsible for managing the green turtle was bought by what the trust that was Florida community's trust okay it has to be open to the public so many hours to qualify that's right that's why we have these management plans with all these um you know components that we're trying to get approved because we have to do that and they come and inspect every year to make sure we're following these that was Henry right good I think they paid like s million for it in for for six or seven acres whatever it was so seven and a half Acres just set the record straight so it sounds like we're requesting to find in the budget $2.5 million for potential acquisition potential whatever whatever first of all this don't get stuck on these appraisals you can buy an appraisal most people do it's coming in the business doesn't have to be worth what the appraisal reads just a sideline comment believe me I'm right I know I'm right so just because a appraisal said such and such and we have to pay such and such that's a bunch of nonsense I'm not going to mention any property that I know where you're going you know where I'm going going to the church again right I'm I'm not going to mention that but you know you know what I'm but you know you know where I'm going truthfully I mean if the truth were known it's a diff a different number but I'm not going to mention that I've said enough already but to rely on an appraisal it's not the worth it's not worth what the uh what's written on the paper it really isn't so anyway thank you anybody else have any other questions for Peter why he's up here no okay thank you sure thank you rob well I have some other questions just in general if if that is that are we closed on that subject uh not if we don't want to be okay well did we reach a conclusion I I thought we reached a conclusion that we should look for that money we should budget for that purchase yes and and and then it'll go through the process and it'll be on the agenda and you'll have to you know do a um contract and all that I mean Now's the Time for the budget it is it is I mean that's the point of a budget is to have these conversations staff's got to look they they got to figure out where come back to us where they can get that money from well that's that's exactly like if we give that direction just like if we said you know we want to cut whatever we want to then that's that's that's coming back on September 5th that's it so all right are we done with that can we move to the next subject are you done with your habitat acquisition or habitat thing I think so I think I think I've made clear statements that the manager understands and we all understand yes yeah I think we're all on the same page we have clear direction from Council you want us to bake in the number for acquisition of the peacon Leatherman property at the amount that they wanted to sell it at uh no negotiation of that price in theory we although we'll try but council is saying pay up to what they are asking um and I don't know if I agree with that I I say let our our I think the way it goes is the uh land Authority negotiates it they do we can give them authority to negotiate and yall can keep that number under your hat until the it's too hot under the 10 or whatever so so so uh I think the land Authority Pete corrects me if I'm wrong has been attempting to negotiate and the seller will not budge so if the seller is not willing to negotiate further with the land Authority uh we're confronted with with the decision of either paying what they want for it or not and if the idea is that we want to appropriate funding to pay for it then we have to appropriate that level of funding and if staff are directed to we would proceed with uh negotiating that purchase uh and and have a contract and all the rest so we would want to be very clear before we do that that there is Council consensus around that potential outcome and if there is we need clear Direction now before we start heading that path uh but to Elizabeth's Point yes September 5th is when that budget would be a tentative budget and we'd still have opportunity to change that direction but um in preparing for September 5th we would put that number in the budget and it would become a direction of staff to keep working on that issue me to I just have to I just have to say something your conversation should never been said if you're going to negotiate something I don't how to do with the sunshine law but all I'm saying is what you just said I wish you hadn't said it if you're going to negotiate something truthfully that's all if council is asking us to budget enough money to purchase it I don't know how we have that conversation and get a maximum budgeting is one thing and approving is another I'm not I don't I don't I'm not up me me personally I don't think we should go in and pay and just because they're demanding they're asking that much they know I don't I'm not going to take part of that because we got the Glenn property is I I don't care if this piece of property is nice the Glenn's own it since 1955 and and you know what it was a plotted subdivision and you know we hung on long enough and our attorney negotiated and we got it right I'm not paying over a praise value $2.5 million uh I'm sorry I Henry I think that's what you're getting at right okay wait a second wait a second go ahead wait a second um first of all you guys you two all of a sudden want to pull two and a half million dollars from somewhere how does that affect our staff how does that which don't you think you guys are like jumping into something without seeing let me just finish Mark you're like f what don't you think this is just yeah don't you think this is just what are you going to cut to get the 2 and a half million shouldn't that discussion come first before you two want to go shopping well we should have had that conversation when We Bought Church of course you we pulled we went whoosh and we bought the church yeah but that was before we don't even know what we're going to do with it okay Mark you and I clearly going to have to have a time out here because I don't understand why the church saying okay I know everybody's looking at me at the church I don't really care but the point is is that this is a budget these people have come to us with what they say they need to keep this Village and the facilities running right now without even saying you know the budget wasn't involved with the church and now I understand that the differently but where is this $25 million coming from how is that going to affect what they've asked for don't you think that should be addressed before we go shopping we have not yet determined anything with regard to any of the department but that's got to come from somewhere well we'll let the manager do that because he that's why I asked those questions at the outset I already knew the answers but I wasn't sure if you did and and others so now we all know the answers there's ways that you can find money in the budget just like we did with the church and the Machado property and the island silver and spice property I'm just saying let's do it upfront this time instead of doing it on the Fly doing a budget amendment three quarters through the year so that we it doesn't look like we're playing games let's do it open transparent right here in this moment I don't I don't know if if if this Council has I mean this is the time to to have conversations this is the time rather than in the middle of the year when someone just comes up with some hairbrained idea and I'm not saying your churches because I'm all in for that but I'm saying and I have another another conversation along these same lines that I'd like to discuss now for the future right I mean this is the time and then on September 5th they come back saying we can make this happen we can't you know yeah and depending on how firm we are they they will come back on September 5th with where that money can come from I'm not interested in in going where you and Mark want to go P million more than I'm saying raise the money don't ear Market just raise the money okay but let's also be clear we're not making a decis all we're doing tonight is making a decision to to find that money this isn't a council meeting so we're not approving anything we're just we're talking yeah so we're not voting on anything we're not but we're having a conversation about if we want to entertain the thought of making that purchase then we should be we should find the money like be responsible and and locate where that's going take there's the Hurricane fund right there they're talking about it could be lowered take it from the Hurricane fund 9.7 or 9.8 see that's that's the thing we don't want to do that and I think you might be just joking but that's how that's how we run our town a lot of times we come up in the middle of the year and say oh my God here's an opportunity and then we have to find the money it doesn't help it doesn't help any Department um so we can find the money without cutting departments out there's a way to do it let's give the manager a shot at doing it and we you don't like it we voted down right right that's that's what I'm saying I'm saying you know let the staff come back with some options two or three options of where it comes from but to go pay $3 million over mean how does that look to taxpayers that we're going and paying 3 million bucks over appraise value because the seller and the real estate agent want to you know yeah you know in 20 something years ago we paid $10 million for this property right here and I don't I'm not a Record Keeper in the real estate world but that had to be the number one or the top three real estate purchases of all time in Isa marada and it was unbelievable and today that's chicken feed I mean look at it now look look at the future we we we paid more than it was probably worth because it was a wreck the place was run down and the Lagoon Saloon was a rat farm and there's a lot of problems but look what it's got now and so you have to look at the future today sometimes it doesn't make sense I agree now Market ain't going to really matter I mean you know our kids and grandkids and well 50 years from now no one will remember our name someone else will be living in our houses and all of our money will be spent by someone else so what really matters is right now I'll be here well I hope so real be here but but you know I mean again like all funing games aside it is about 50 years from now because what we're trying to do now is preserve open space so that we can catch fish and we can we still have birds in the community I mean we still have some nature left that is like that I don't I I mean like I don't want smart though and I don't think that's there's no I mean the thing is that this well I can't even I'm not going to go down that path but anyway I haven't can we move on because we I think we gave the direction to see where the money can come from there's no decision about the purch Ballon yeah but but Rob there is the the the people came I was at the council meeting when they came and they got shut down because of habitat and stuff whatever it was or Peter said Wetlands or whatever it was it did not happen okay it doesn't back to the budget yeah soad when it comes to the budget question and what we're being asked to come back with on September 5th um what I'm still not really hearing Council consensus on I hear two people saying yes and three people saying no so I need to I didn't hear that but let's ask the question I'd like to be clear just to make sure um what I'm hearing is that will put um and what comes to Council on September mber 5th uh somewhere between $2.6 and $3 million into a land acquisition fund and portray for council's review and consideration um what the implications of that would be both with respect to our proposed budget and our fund balances because I'll foreshadow a little bit um that's probably coming straight out of fund balance most likely but we'll see we'll have alternatives to to examine if you cut in other places it could happen that way too we we'll have to see where the rest of this conversation goes because we're also just talking about one item and we haven't got to uh where Council prefers to be for the overarching budget yet and we also have collective bargaining so I'm trying to pull together all the pieces from this conversation so that we can then decide is it cutting is it transferring from general fund but I just need to get consensus that what you want us to bring back is a proposed uh tenative budget with a land acquisition fund somewhere in that 2.6 to3 range uh and if Council says yes as a group then that is exactly what we'll bring back and that has nothing to do with buying a specific property it is a dollar value that would be allocated to this fund that could be used to purchase that property or any other but it has to be you know sufficient to cover at least the conversation we're talking about now uh but I'm looking for Council Direction and put that three in there or don't I'll second what you just said yeah me too exactly okay so put it in and uh we'll go from there yes hearing consensus is there we have three we have three yeah what more three do you want okay all right we got three but I okay I have another issue I'd like to bring up unless anyone else has something I I I don't agree with it but that's okay that's all right can are does anyone have I want to bring something else up I don't bring anything else I'll settle this yeah I mean it's done that's done now that now moving on okay next you got three votes um there's no mention in are we are we good for moving on we going to move on to b or we no no no I just have some other discussion okay go ahead there's no mention in here of any kind of um of uh planning or future um look ahead to any kind of Workforce housing that we might want to um initiate and this is this is a bigger conversation but this would be the time to have it do we have any interest in um thinking about um again some sort of funding mechanism for um village directed Workforce housing well what did you have in mind I'm interested um you know we've got lots of early out allocations um and uh it could look like anything and and we have lot of resources to pull from I mean it could be anything from um village purchased um property that we build on and we create housing it could be any I mean you know it could be anything but it but it we continue to run up I mean I'm preaching to the choir here we continue to run up against walls about we have no we have no Workforce housing and at some point if we continue to rely on the private sector to solve that problem um then we might never have have that now when you look at the county they had an interesting model recently where they put in County funds to match a private developers funds up on I want to say mile marker 95 and and all of a sudden with this really creative and Nimble response to this crisis that we're having we have I think they have I think they have like 112 Workforce housing that units that that people can actually live and work in I mean are we in that space today or are we going to continue to ignore the problem okay well I I'd like to know because since I've been on Council and this Council we shoot it down we say no more I thought I thought everything is you guys are saying no more whether it's Workforce whether it's market rate I never said that I never said that either I mean because they're talking about you know infrastructure we don't have the water we don't have this we don't have that we can't the cars on the highway I mean I've been talking about affordable housing wanting to go there's people that have I've talked to Rob about it and talked to John about it but you know what I'm not going to waste my time because it's been it it gets shot down there there's companies that'll come in here and do Merchant build for you put up the money all they need is the land me you are in a position private a private developer will do that you have the non- hammock part of the Machado property it's just sitting Idol it's a liability we're mowing it I know and markk you and I and Henry have been on Council since 20 since we bought that and we've never done anything with it I mean I'm I'm sorry that that past councils have never addressed this to the level at which um we could but now we're up against a wall and that that makes that that makes forces us to take action at some point and what an opportunity especially if you're in favor of it and and and this would be the time to think about allocating Village funds to then have available to us when we want to task our staff with some Creative Solutions for for Meaningful Workforce housing what you're talking about Elizabeth is being done all over the state but not here okay well wait a minute I'm just saying I was at the northeast Florida Planning Commission awards banquet and they they had two young planners and CRA and they took a trailer park they took the density from 1 to three and they built a major afford affordable housing uh you know thing but everybody here wants that we're talking about it's about stopping construction stopping building but we've got to no that's what we've been doing here I mean there's contractors in this community we could do what what Monroe County did with PRM Singh he had to build 30 units on property at Isabella before he got a permit to build those units he had to build 30 that's what that was the cost of doing business we should be doing something like that here before we let Publix they would have had to you know build whatever or you know whoever when these new people come in here for retail or sun Community could have had to put you know they could have made we could have made them put 20 but it didn't happen I mean that was before us so are you in favor then of thinking I'm in favor there's plenty of home I mean Terry Terry uh Horton from Dr Horton does affordable housing that are up to 200 mil an hour all these guys are doing that well I don't want to rub salt in the wounds but I had had a little different thought about this early on called accessory dwelling units which don't require any land and the buildings are already there and the folks that live there can do it all on their own and it's all Workforce housing I I agree with you I had it all sent to counsel when Ted ARP put that out that said that's the major wave of the America right now the adus a whole article I had it sent to every council member of this Council this year or maybe last year year that we should look at that so interested in that I'm all about it yeah does it require any kind of funding because this would be the time to talk about funding if that's if that doesn't then let's put that on the agenda next month and in the meantime is there Rob did you hear that can we put that on the agenda I think it's on Jennifer's uh list of projects to do and has been scheduled at a future point in time she can speak to that if it's uh something that's been plugged in yet okay my my future is two more meetings two more sessions so so let's talk about that okay wait wait a minute let's we're thr affordable housing and we just turned down eight one-bedroom units that we had awarded to Gorman okay we awarded Gorman those eight one bedroom one B units on Woods Avenue okay and in habitat built nine okay and habitat normally doesn't do one bedroom they don't do rentals but that Lindsay want they got the money okay they got it but you know what we did we just turned them down no we didn't we I thought we approved that Ved for that we did not but now they don't have to because Mark you found out that they they're 501c3 and they don't even they're exempt that's what it was wait we we have turned them down L we've turned them down twice we did we did vote to not reserve them however it was unnecessary because they don't have you and Mark and Henry voted I voted no yeah the the the issue you guys are talking about the woods Avenue the eight one bedroom one bath was yep the vote was to reserve the uh the units for Village use um it didn't it wasn't to specify a specific location it did not turn down habitat um but it did it wasn't um specifically reserved for Habitat or use at the woods Avenue location it was reserved for Village we didn't Reserve so you could use it they weren't required to but John this is the second time they came back the first time they were turned down because Elizabeth and Mark and Henry voted no because of hammock it was a vote to not reserve the units correct yes we voted to protect the hammock not to deny them the right to do their project we were happy to send it somewhere else where there was no hammock on a bigger piece with more units just to be clear I'm not antih habitat you and Henry and I were on it when we approved it for I remember I remember understand it Gman didn't come to the they yeah but habitat was the default contractor and they were we habitat I thought didn't even have to come in here wait wait okay but wait a minute Mark wait a minute but the problem was uh that the dwellings those units expired right that was the whole problem there was a time limit as how long would be reserved for so that lapsed and that was the need to re reserve a very important distinction is that the Gorman is a for-profit company and our code prohibits building affordable housing in a hammock uh by a for-profit company that has to go through bass already told them they could do it well well I'm just saying it it would have been prohibited by the code so we would have been violating the law had we let them do that when habitat took over they're not for profit and they were not required to go through bass so we we had to go through that exercise to to see that and we did and habitat gets to build there that's that's they get to build on a hammock where we're supposed to be protecting them that's that's what the law says that's what the law says I met with habitat I said do something so I can improve your project I can argue for you give me a reason I met with them one onone they never did truthfully they never did and Gorman with that project in the middle of the city thanks to Ken philson who is here tonight I understand that Gman paid the city like a million dollars or something for the property just raise your hand say yes no yes anyway something like that however right now they're taking in $600,000 a year and our piece is $5,000 did the million or two that they put up justify what they're doing at the property right now I don't know but all I know is we're getting 5,000 and they're getting 600 some thousand and when I challenged them they said well we have expenses so that's the in and outs of that conversation all right Rob do you had something you want to say about getting on track yeah I just wanted to remind everyone that we have a six o' deadline and we're trying to get some point of where we get a mill rate discussion going but I also want to give Council ample opportunity to uh inject new ideas and and make requests that we can consider in the budget but I I'm concerned we're starting to run a little short on time but maybe that concern is not you know in entirely accurate but I'd like to see if we can refocus a little bit thank you okay are are we going to move on or we no I I I don't think we resolve that and and and and just just to be clear I'm taking this pretty seriously and um so while I respect that we are running out of time we're spending millions of dollars so the question that we that I brought up originally or here was do we want to think about any kind of allocations of funds for um Workforce housing that that we that this Village could support considering how many allocations we have reserved for the town I'll go along with you well the I I'm willing to do what it takes to to limit but the unfortunate reality is that uh you're to do it privately without a subsidy somehow it the the developer whoever it is will be upside down you cannot build them and then rent them out and and break even let alone make a profit the sub that is sort of what we're talking about the subsidy would be potential it could be the use of the land it could be anything but but if we don't have for that we can't even begin the conversation of how to do some how to do this differently we we continue to say this isn't possible in our town because we're not we're not approaching this with a different set of uh different lens so at what point are we having the conversation and you know what and think problems are fixed with money and we're talking about the budget so are we thinking about solving our Workforce issue in a new way which means a new conversation which potentially means a new funding stream you got to get creative Elizabeth it's not we don't have to be competitive there'sa Home Builders out there patka Florida of all places is building 700 Workforce housings okay in East patka it can be done they are so much more I mean we're not poor by any means but PATCO is known as one of the poorest okay well and so so this is the come up Jennifer this is this is the point we're not trying to figure we're not trying we're not asking tonight for us to figure out how to make this happen but what I'm saying is that money fixes money pushed in the direction of this problem brings Solutions and what we would be asking for is not not for us to figure that out that's not our expertise but to to fund the creative solution of a problem that we've always had but we need our staff to call some of these people bring them in there's people that'll put the money if we give them the dirt agree totally Ian because we don't funding source do we just put a line on the budget says affordable housing fund is that what weing it's a legit it's some I think right now we have like $20 in ours that's going to do nothing but we create a funding source to feed an affordable housing fund and then at some Future Point task our staff with coming back with some Creative Solutions it's it's something we don't have that in front of us we're not there's no there's no project out there but we know it's a crisis maybe we can ask the manager to give us some options of funding s ources for that okay Mark excuse me one second Jennifer would you go ahead please sorry I didn't want to interrupt your robust conversation but thank you I just wanted to casually remind everybody that several months ago the council tasked the planning department with coming up with a plan for the affordable housing crisis in the village so um we've been working on that we put that on our action plan that we presented to you several months ago um adus were a part of that conversation um the timeline for that was to complete at the end of this calendar year I know for some of you that is not helpful because you won't be here at the end of the year but that's where we're at you know we are short staff we have lost some staff recently so we may have to relook at that timeline and push out a little bit more but we still are on task to complete that timeline that t i mean that report and that will include some creative ideas some options for funding some different things I think while this conversation is definitely needed and important it may be a little premature until we come to you with that plan and those ideas and I think maybe the ne next budget cycle is when we would should H be having the conversation about how we fund the affordable housing in the village in the meantime if somebody were to come and want to talk about a project we're willing to have those conversations and be willing to listen and work with them but I think the bigger overall arching conversation is better Sav till next next budget cycle so I would like to ask specifically with regard to accessory dwelling units since those don't necessarily involve funding is that something that you could present to the councel or we could move forward on that component of it or would that be out of whack with the overall plan that you have because we need them now so we kind I don't want to get into the nitty-gritty of it right now there's a little challenge with those and that they would require a allocation of which we don't have any so I'm happy to have that conversation at a council meeting with the council and figure out if there's a way we could do that without an allocation I've looked and I'm not sure there is but we can certainly have that conversation let let me ask you something Jennifer because you you've been really tasked with a Monumental like project and and especially with your lack of your recently lost I mean like but but I don't hear you saying that it that that the the task is not unimportant right I me right like I get I feel like you're on like you realize this is a big deal yes and I'm going to just say one more time and then I'm going to drop it but um and I'm trying to think of a way to say it so that that we have a crisis we have some some limitations in our staff because of the overwhelming amount of other things that you do and but that doesn't take away from the fact that we should be proactive about addressing it and if it means creating a funding pool I mean to hire someone additionally to work on this individually like that could be an option it might take things off your plate because you've got a million other things going on you know that this is the time to do that so when I hear holy crap let's wait till next year well I certainly respect that considering the rest of the things you have to do um that we've asked you to do um but I don't think that should take away from our responsibility to address this crisis so that's it done okay thank you Jennifer okay okay are we goingon to move on here to uh B Rob um I think if council is done with um questions for departments oh I actually have one more question okay because the next one would be C actually I think this discussion has come out of B so far right um and and so that Elizabeth after um yeah I have two more questions one was about um you know I remember La one was it from the from from Vince um and he was talking about I was unclear about what he was asking for for the replacement of this netrix I'm not sure what it is he's coming out yeah bench will be out momentarily um okay in the meantime my second question is I remember last year we spent a lot of time talking about Cola and I'm not hearing that conversation like is it just built in that it's a 5% or I mean I remember being like under a spotlight like being very like that was a huge part of this conversation where is it well there's 5% built in there four or five option so are when do we have that conversation is that some is that you're bringing that back or what whatever you want since since we have Vince up how about we settle that question first and then we'll revisit this I have an answer for you on that as well so you the first thing and oh yes um you were talking about um your your security system is no longer supported and you were we're replacing the Z it's called Z and that's replicates our all of our servers to a cloud so that in the event of an emergency like a hurricane or a fire and Village Hall we can maintain our services we could run everything from there within two hours we are replacing that because that one's going away okay so and we found it was cheaper to buy new hardware which we would have to replace in two years three years anyway um and use our own Hardware to do the same thing over the long term it's going to be consider be cheaper so that's where we were with that because we're not we're not fixing an unsupported service no that's going away in May of next year that service no longer exists we're replacing it okay thanks okay and now on to the other question about the cola yeah yeah as presented Yesterday by Lisa it uh assumed a 5% Cola increase for nonunion personnel across the board we talked a little bit about comparables and how the county was doing 3.4 plus 1.6 pursuant to a performance plan and we discussed that uh we were very anxious to develop our own U performance evaluation system and model that same type of approach where you have a base increase annually plus a performance related uh increase that would you know rise or fall according to one's ability to meet the goals that are established for a particular fiscal year so I'm just saying all that to remind everyone that we had that conversation and at that point we didn't have any questions on the five but this is certainly an opportunity to to raise that as a question if you're desirous to you know have Council discuss it further I are we I'm not saying nothing go ahead hey you know what I'm just going to continue to bring my issues for forward until they're done because I'm taking this seriously so do we want to have a conversation about that did we I didn't think we got um and and forgive me I know we had yesterday's was a quick meeting could you direct me to the page where we had some comparisons for other um Cola um in our in our um Community I don't think you did that I I I think she spoke to that specifically as jimie here okay I think it might be on Tab four there were uh I don't know if that's exactly what it is but there is something about Cola and pay increases in there there were four different folded ones it's the last folded one but wasn't it in here as well there was one of these that had it I think so I don't have that though so while we were waiting have that either while we were waiting I thought I would direct you to that I tap 4-18 and it has an average of 34 municipality surveyed it has U Monroe County and she explained that Marathon had not yet responded back and right here pay and incre colon pay increases so she was I think she was going to bring the the list back of the counties or something is that what maybe that didn't happen no I I I don't think there was a request to follow up on it that I recall and it's not in my notes here so I may have missed it so Monroe county is doing 3.4 and everyone receive and then they have a merit and then it comes out to 5% yes the maximum increase in Monro County would be 5% based on their Cola plus the Merit of 1.6 and the survey that was done average of 34 municipalities had uh a maximum increase of 5.39% amongst those 34 that she uh had in the survey and then the sheet also details uh what the uh implication is of a 4% versus 5% net difference of 65,0 on the entire budget I don't have anything else on that can say that one more time um the short version the short version was that staff had proposed a 5% increase and that was generally consistent with what was found in a survey of 34 municipalities where their increase maximum was 5.39 and the counties of 5.0 which is a combination of performance and cola so 5% was uh pretty much equal to the uh maximums that were uh highlighted in the in that data well I'm certainly in agreement as to the performance evaluation that's closer to the public sector I don't know about the five quite frankly but performance can raise up I would rather start at a lower number quite frankly in our environment we would not be able to do a performance bonus on top of a cola because we don't have a performance evaluation system in place yet that would be for our next fiscal year so if the preference is to be lower just recognize it would be lower without the ability to add an increment to it for any individual's performance but I think in in the interest of the expediency we we could provide that per performance evaluation and we wouldn't have to wait till next year the same time I think we could do that well the performance we all know what the performance has been in the past let me ask you a question are we still under the 4- day work week no I I work five days a week and my staff work five days a week in fact I'm here typically beyond my work hours instead of shorter days no I'm not suggesting your I'm talking about the staff in general well staff in general do not have a 4-day work week we we work Monday to Friday from 8 that's good to hear I'm I'm glad you said that thank you for that okay so I I wanted to ask a question if in this relates to the collective bargaining agreement we have and it contains a clause in there and I'm going to call it the most favored nation clause such that um the non collective bargaining employees such as the regular staff I'll say should they get an increase that is in excess of what is contained in that agreement then that triggers the special clause and then they too they meaning the union members would also get that same amount am I correct to that yes and in fact in the last collective bargaining agreement uh the union members and and those would be firefighters uh benefited uh beyond that beyond what they had negotiated right I believe they negotiated in the threes and ended up with increases that matched those that were granted to the balance of Staff exactly so they they I wouldn't say took advantage of that Clause but they benefited from that they did benefit from that Clause correct so if we pass this budget now we're we're on the cusp of a new agreement so would if would would that if we do something now would that impact an agreement in the future should it contain that Clause well first of all we are not making a decision now um we would be getting guidance to bring back to Council on September 5th for a tenative budget so um if we set a particular increase for staff that are non-union that would effectively set a baseline for uh the union Personnel so irrespective of what they negotiate for their upcoming contract we would know that it would be no less than what we set for everybody else now there's different leevers we can press right I mean I don't understand what you're saying could you say I don't know I'm sorry I'm sorry it's a little tricky so we we explain it to me yes it's simple so we have the union employees in the fire department and rescue and then we have the non-union employees so in the collective bargaining agreement which we're going to talk about later today um let's say that they have an annual step up in their increase of 3% if we were to give 5% here then they have a clause in their contract that says if they the regular staff get five then they get 5% also so it's like you know what's good for the goose is good for the gander or however you would like to you know characterize that so so that's true I'd like to avoid having in-depth conversation on that topic exact we're going to be having another discussion separately but I will say there are different levers that we can press yes uh to to balance that in an appropriate way yes um and and we'll talk about some of that in an appropriate setting so we should have the conversation with the Union prior to the conversation with the village yes yes um but that may not necessarily happen we should talk about this after uh when we go into executive session no I understand that but I mean we're going to be there in a half hour or something right but all I'm saying is there's different Pathways that we could be walking and we'll talk about all of them I'll save it for later thank you so what's what's next okay uh so if we are done there we're not we're not we're not focusing on Workforce housing just wanted to say that we're doing what we're not dedicating funds to Workforce housing because it's something that we're we're not prioritizing just to be clear okay next okay um I said we're not prioritizing funding for Workforce housing because um we just don't prioritize it I think you wed that wrong I think we're following what Jennifer wants and she's the planning director I think that Jennifer's response was appropriate in this circumstance because if we were to want to develop a plan and fund it the timing is such that that plan needs to be completed we'd have to take some actions after that so generally speaking from a budgetary perspective if we're looking you know nine month nine months out into the fiscal year we'd probably want to get that plan in place know what the financial needs are and feed that into the next budget cycle which is not I don't believe the same as as not prioritizing it because council's made it very clear and the community has made it very clear that affordable and Workforce housing are very high priorities but um having a a a defined plan to advance that and then fund it is is a a good practice whereas if we set the money aside we would be allocating funding perhaps to something we may not have any real ability to execute on this fiscal year and taking that money away from things like uh maybe the the discussion of how to balance the land acquisition fund right so we so they all interrelate is all I think we'll just agree to disagree with our understanding of this but thank you thank you respectfully so Rob help me uh are we going to be ready to so we can take a break about quarter till 6 before we go an executive session um it depends on how much time we need for the militate discussion but we'd like to head right into that okay so let's go all right uh I'll give a brief intro and then Lisa is going to take it over uh each one of you are distributed this document here it's up on the screen for members of the public that they uh would like to take a look at it uh what you'll note there is we have a variety of millage rates that are listed on the left as you walk through it we have the resulting Levy that is how much cash we have available within our budget to meet our various funding needs and the next column is the gap that's created so with each millage Point drop we have to come up with more money from somewhere to make the budget balance that could be cuts it could be assigning fund balance it could be a number of different levers that staff will work on based on council's direction as to which millage rate they want to be at um you look all the way over to the right there's a column three columns with the header tax implications so if you want to say for instance I'm at 2.85 if I go all the way across to the tax implications I would know that if I agree to a mill rate of 2.85 that means I would be authorizing an increase of $663 per year on the median assessed home and that example holds true for each of the different m rates that are listed you can go all the way over there and say if you're interested in how does this affect the you know the median homeowner that column will tell you if you want to know the cash difference there's a column there that says that as well change in Levy so with that having been said that's the general layout of the document um Lisa would you like to add anything else to that uh no I think that about covers it uh I did want to mention though at the bottom and I understand um about the hurricane response I just had a couple of comments about that um I did talk with our CPA and he did tell me uh that their recommendation is 25% of your expenditures and we are at 40% however I do know that in the past the reason I think that the 10 million was or the the 40% was chosen uh from my understanding it was because of Irma and we had $10 million in debris removal so right up front so that might have the Irma storm you know which I don't guess there's been a a big one like that in a while but um and you're taking a risk whatever you're doing you're taking a risk but um anyway that my recommendation would be the 25% but that's up to council what you think and you've been here and lived here and seen what hurricanes have done and what the cost of them is but um I did want to just mention that okay so so our CPA said he they recommended 25% they did for a city our size he said because you know um I think I think as he stated that um Monroe County had like 10 million in theirs and and we're doing the same as what their whole county is doing so yeah with 6,000 residents yeah right so just a recommendation okay John I just wanted to remind everybody that um by Statute there are certain voting requirements depending on what millage rate gets set and it's based upon uh a calculation uh that's set forth in the statute so anything up to to 26736 would be a 3 35ths simple majority vote of the council anything above that up to um 2.94 one0 would require 4 fths vote and then anything above that number 29410 would require five out of five to vote okay I think what we can do is go ahead and go through the capital items if you guys wanted to look at the back of the uh number 13 those are all of the items that we've got in there and I do have a couple of recommendations for some of the bigger ticket items um after um Terry was speaking last night about the fire department and the engine that he needed we did discuss uh you know it's 1.2 million and I did um interrupt him yesterday asking him about uh if we could solidify that um pricing for the next two years and he said that we could if we signed a contract with him his uh response was he just needs to get the ball rolling because as he told you that almost takes four years to get a build out on a fire engine so um and that is true I know that for a fact um and it could be longer the longer you wait so it is good to go ahead and get in line get your place but uh my recommendation would be to wait those two years to pay for it that way we don't have to come up with the money up front or as Rob stated he had another idea of we could uh set aside maybe $400,000 a year in a syncing fund each year or 300 for the four years and that way we would have the money when the time comes to purchase it so how much could we save if we bought we paid for it now do we have can that's uh Terry do you have an answer for that most so how much 12,000 okay over four years and and we could take the money that if we developed a sinking fund we could invest that and get interest on it while that fund is is sitting there waiting to buy the fire truck so that's a a consideration okay all right so 120 that's not that big a savings but hey it's 120,000 yeah but we could make a lot of money we could make more in the interest by putting something I understand okay I'm good I'm good plus there may be a risk too you know you know not that fire manufacturers get go out of business very often but if you pay them in advance you could be uh still holding the bag when it comes time to buy the vehicle if something happens okay okay and also um on the pool renovation I know that's um something that really needs to be done but the two that's $2 million as Maria has estimated that the cost for that and I did talk to her about that we do um we can get TDC funds for that and we will definitely apply for that I think that comes up in January so we won't really know until that point and then they have to take all of their applications in and see what the pool of money and then decide their rankings so um we did get half a million this year for the um park playground at Founders Park so you know there's I don't know what the pot of money looks like each and every year uh it could go up it could go down I guess but um that is a consideration and that would cover 25% of it if we could get that much so that's another you know thing to think about uh let's see so on the capital sheet I've got all of the uh revenues and what those are based on the local government discretionary sales tax is based on um the state gives us our the revenue estimates each and every year and those just came out so that is that's based on the estimate by the state uh let's see Steward chick back Grant that's um Pete gave me those numbers for those grants so that's covers his Canal Restorations he's got there um in addition for the um fire rescue that we purchased this year that was uh Terry had that a couple meetings ago I think the fire rescue that was 380 he was able to get that we did get 190,000 appropriation that money is expected to come in this fiscal year in the next couple weeks uh and then we have the bricks and mortar Grant those funds were spent there um and then interest and a little bit of miscellaneous Revenue but we don't we don't really budget for that next year because we're not really sure what that'll be uh all in all we have transfer from the general fund we do have to um add the the church building is included in that uh the purchase for that this year uh let's see and then we have the transfer from the impact fee funds and then the expenditures on the next um section that shows what the projected were for this year as well as what we're planning to spend next year and just keep in mind that now project is 2.1 and the 615 those are grants uh Pete did so we did have the funds up front for that or we will get reimbursed oops I'm sorry tab 13 13 to 13 yes 13 what page within tab 13 please two number two two uhuh and then we also will have the um City View upgrades those are um those are split between planning building and code those are being requested um it you can see their requests there and um let's see fire rescues those are listed if you want to look down the list of those um like I said the engines included in that so if we wanted to wait two years we could take that out and uh go ahead and authorize the purchase but pay for that in two years or develop the sinking fund and and uh let's see what else is Big there that just gives you in red you will see the for under each Capital section those items in red are their specific requests as well as the dollar amount to the right so if you want to see what those are those are all listed out um and if you have any questions for any of the staff I'm sure they'd be glad to answer uh questions regarding that so um like uh Rob was saying those are the millage rates we have up there the proposed three is three and uh the midpoint is 2.76 49 and then the roll back rate at 2.52 N7 so those are what you'll be um determining you know which which scenario you'd like to pick based on uh and then we can what we can do is put together the projects uh if at your discretion what you would like us to um what you'd like us to have for the next year based on what the millage rate is so I I just want going to add one thing real quick um so as you look at the millage rates and you see that gap which is one more column over it's labeled financial gap from proposed rate 3.0 as we go down the millage rate the Gap gets bigger in terms of how much money we have to find in the budget somewhere what that column does not presently include is the $3 million allocation that we're going to build in for property acquisition so add $3 million to everything in that column as you start working your way down and so just to illustrate if we were at 2.76 49 the midpoint it currently says the Gap would be 1,485 really the Gap currently based on our conversation this evening is 4485 million so we would need to in order to achieve um everything that's in the budget find 4.48 five million either through cuts through use of fund balance or some other strategy that we would bring back to council we're not expecting you to figure that out right now we're expecting and needing uh for you to kind of settle on one of these things that you're comfortable with in terms of the tax impact on the residents for the services equipment and other things that our staff have um did their presentations on and and underscored the importance of so the conversation from this point to the end of the meeting which you know probably is the next 15 20 minutes or so is which one of these numbers do you gravitate towards and once you're you're comfortable with that we're going to take that information and go back to the drawing board and present a tentative budget that hits that Target and will recommend how to get there and then Council can agree or disagree or change it or what have you you might even change your mind on the millit rate since this is not a decision this is guidance for the tenative budget there's no vote today although it was important to also note if you're targeting a particular uh millit just know you have to have three four or five out of five people depending on where you're at in that range and and that becomes part of the calculus when you get into tenative budget but uh most importantly where do you guys want us to be and we'll come back to you with recommendations that hit that Target Council any questions oh it's clear okay we all understand what John said right about you want a number we're looking for a militate number that corresponds to all of those things I just said but uh one quick reference for me is what's the impact on our our community our residents the median taxpayer and that column tells you with each millit rate you pick whether it's an increase or a decrease and of what magnitude and Rob to remind us I recall you saying that for each tenth of a point it's about 630,000 is that it's probably like 631 but yeah we round it to 630 so by way of an example um if we wanted to do a sinking fund on the Fire fire uh truck and we funded say 300 instead of the full million two then that would get us about on10th plus a little extra that's correct and that's part of the calculus we would do behind the scenes that you're doing in advance for us right there live in the moment live in the moment this doesn't include okay this does not include and we said that at the beginning but it is worth noting yes because we kind of covered a lot of ground this does not include any of the increases that we may contemplate uh pursuant to our collective bargaining agreement and we'll talk about the how that works as well right right so if we were to we are we going to finish the collective bargaining agreement before or after we vote on The Ultimate Military well that's a good question because it depends in part on the other side of the bargain table right so we'll get we'll get direction from Council uh our collective bargaining agreement members all are hearing this conversation so they know the struggles that we have in the budget and they know that we need to have things to run our government uh so we'll have our discussion in executive session we will get negotiations uh guidance from Council we will return to the table to negotiate with our bargaining unit members and hopefully we'll be able to strike a deal as quick as we can they had initially indicated to us that they were interested in Expediting an agreement and our initial response was well then we're going to have to see some concessions because it was a pretty high ask you know but that's not unusual they you know people want to you know uh set themselves a high bar so that when they begin to drop back down to something that everyone agrees is reasonable they they they hope using that strategy that they'll be higher than they would otherwise but I think factually speaking uh we want to make sure that they're compensated well enough so that we have retention we have recruitment needs met we have safe employees that have the equipment and the the the needs met but at the same time there's a lot of other needs and and we have to collectively both as Council staff community and the labor unit recognize how best to strike that balance and and hopefully yeah by the time we come back we have something but if we don't um then we'll keep working on it and uh we'll have to have some assumptions built into our budget you know that that deal with that uncertainty and i' I'd like to say affirmatively we'll have it done but really the only way to do that would be to concede everything they want and then yeah I could have it done but uh we're not there yet I I understand that was a great explanation thank you understand Henry yeah as I spoke to earlier we should cover that bridge first is that correct yeah why can't we do that one because that because we don't control the other side of the bargaining negotiation our our deadlines for the budget are statutory they are set by the state so we don't have a choice but to do our budget on the DAT that we have to do them we cannot force the bargaining unit to come to the table what could happen is we could come to impass and it could go through this long process that resolves the the disagreements between the village and the labor unit and that could take us well into our fiscal year and once that contract finally settles there would be some retroactive liability typically where you're paying back pay for increases that you know they they get so so we don't control the collective bargaining piece we are mandated by state law on the budget piece perhaps one will come before the other and we would like to see that happen uh but um that is not what's driving the negotiation necessarily we're going into that meeting shortly to what this evening right to get direction on what council believes is uh an appropriate Financial limit for our negotiations okay if nothing changed with the fire department what what I mean do we have these figures if nothing changed with the fire department not that that's going to be the case but just to get a better idea of what this is if nothing changed with the fire department what we're looking at there is zero assumed increase for the fire department but they're included in here they their salary yes they're in there but their increases are not okay so the implications of their increases are not included here because uh because of obvious reasons right okay so is this the point where we start the poker game about what the milit rate is is that right I think so here we go okay Sharon did you want to go from three I would guess am I correct I'm close but uh I I like higher rather than lower because we need a lot of things but I'm open-minded well I'm lower than higher I think the people in this town need a break sure Henry I do a short question of those you're are joining us especially as staff how many of you live in alamada would you raise your hand how many people live in Alam marada I don't see anybody from the staff sure look at all the staff that lives in oh that well okay there one okay I'm just kindy of curious because what we decide is should be relevant to the people that live there really cuz you're going to be paying you're going to be paying the bills hey we're going to be paying the bill too all of us sitting up here I know that the bill too I I want to know how many people live someplace else that well this isn't all the staff this is just the head so I know that okay I know that okay I know you know that just curious that's all all right so okay somebody want to throw a I just said lower than higher in Mark well I tell you what I'm going to go as low as possible I went low as possible last year I want to go a little bit more and you wouldn't let me and I'm going to continue doing that so go for so what's what's the most important factor and that's the people the people that pay the taxes you all got your trim notices I suspect by now I suspect that everybody's paying more as far as the trioses go I can't help but revert back and I've said it before I said it years ago I was standing behind a lady in Publix and her kid reached for a bag of candy and she says you have to put it back we can't afford it that resisters with me that same woman had to make a decision between the best can ofas and the cheapest can ofas that's who we're dealing with I want to eliminate that and what are the two things we have to eliminate is taxes and insurance insurance is going Skyhigh and it's up to us to make the taxes as low as we can and we'll still do the services last year we had $ million left over 2 million where did they go General funds why not if we have to pull ourselves in besides adding two more people to the staff on anything make it one make it none every organization every company in this country does this every year they don't keep adding they can make they make it more feasible for the consumer that's my position I'm going to go as low as I can in due respect which one Henry go go for it tell us what you're going to pick 2.5 2.5 is that is that where I'm going 2.6 2.7 yes 2.5 gets my attention well that's where I want to be can I ask you a question sure So based upon the initial you know my my initial questions that that you know if the this budget is written at at three Ms so if we go to 2.5 and each tenth of a mill is worth $630,000 then that's about three million bucks is that about right 3.2 is yes yeah I I yeah that should be about right I the numbers that are in the chart are 2.97 but there might be did that in my head and I was an English major so so um what do you want to cut to get there uh one other thing real quick plus the 3 million for the so it actually be 5.97 yes so what do you want to cut to get there you want me to go everybody's we're going to do a percentage of each one is that what you're saying each dep Department loses 10% or whatever the magic number is that could be the right way to do it yes but everybody wanted something that everybody wants something it cost money we're at a Crossroads here right now where nobody can afford to live here nobody any entry level person for employment definitely cannot afford to live here we're struggling you don't seem to understand that wait you can't wait to spend the money you have to make some cuts and I'm trying to make a cut on the taxes if I could do the insurance I would but that will mean something to somebody along the way sure we have people worth a lot of money could care less but we also have a lower in order to qualify for low income that's anybody under I think $140,000 is that low income think about what's going on here I I I mean I'm I'm just taking back by the whole thing not just them okay can I say something in response of course I agree so I'm looking at the the tax on the median home and on what you know on on the med on this sheet it's it's on here so so Rob's got us here the the the median price of a home I never understand the difference between the median and the average but somebody can explain that later I think they're kind of close a median home in alado is worth one 1.3 1, 36,000 so everybody that's that this here is a millionaire is that what that means no it doesn't mean that but there's a lot of millionaires here so if the if the median tax is going to be on the high number $391 in change and at your number Henry uh 3,300 it's about $615 a year which in my very good math is is about $51 a month and you know people spend more than that I said on potato chips um maybe it would be like potato chips with some almonds or something like that but I'm making a silly joke but $51 a month when the work that we do and the services that we provide increase the value of their home I mean yeah they pay more in taxes each month if we did it at three three Mills but but they got a lot more valuable home in in part because of what we do here you have to weigh that if we do less then logic tells you maybe that value doesn't go up as much so I'm just throwing that out there for consideration so Henry I like what you're doing I like it but I think but if we go that's a 9.63 decrease at at the 2.52 297 why don't we go to 26 or or 2650 that's that's still a 5.33% decrease I I'll I'll split it with you I'll say [Laughter] no um Rob can can you if we come up with a range a narrow range can you bring back um multiple scenarios for a range what are you thinking so that we don't have to land on a number tonight okay I think that having a number would be a good thing because we're coming back for a tentative budget hearing so in theory we' like to present one budget not multiple ones uh and how we balance each of them might vary a little bit maybe not uh we could try um but I we'd have one number but but you could come back with a range we could or we could come back with the if you guys can settle on one number we can present a tentative budget to you with that number and then you would see what the impacts are and you would either say yes this is fine or no uh let's have a live discussion here and and we would be able to calculate It Out by adding something back that we're taking away or reallocating it but ideally we'd have a pretty narrow if if we get a banned it would be a pretty narrow one would we would would that would that change happen in the meeting yeah in theory could it depends on how big of a shift it is right but yes well since we've had such no no no before you do that Elizabeth how do you feel because there's some of us who are alive what you want to say Henry I've agreed to 2.65 okay we're at 2.79 I'll go along with that Henry 2.65 we got two votes do we have three yep we have three thank you very much let's move on can I ask where you're going to cut that from well I'd start with the like I said looking at the 3 million going into a piece of property that's overpriced I know that's not for that property but in my brain it is and then I think each department could shave a little bit I mean listen the taxpayers you know this is a great wonderful place and we look very wealthy but there's a lot of people who aren't doing very well and who struggle and I know that for fact and I just think we need to give the taxpayers a break we're put up here to do what's best for the community not what's best for certain people and I think we need to give the taxpayers a break it's just my opinion everybody has theirs Elizabeth you haven't chimed in yet you you got three you guys had an offline conversation and got three so don't have a we don't have a wasn't off you got three it was right in front of us but they pretty much I proposed I I'd meet him halfway I was having I was they' already cooked the goose it's time to move on you and Elizabeth have signed we did we did this is the poker I was talking about three votes pass if we are voting on which we're not voting on today obviously that there are budget hearings that we have to hold in September but a 2.65 would require three votes okay we got it thank you very much okay Mr Mayor well wait a minute I mean they do you guys does Mark and Elizabeth want to put anything oh I mean you can I I I I could tell you theoretically I could go along with 2.65 and it's not so much uh what you cut cut from the budget but what do we do with the overall parts of the budget to get to reach the goals that we're trying to achieve and and as Rob was initiating at talking about at the beginning of the meeting there are these other funds that we can look to to draw from or Draw down from which is not good longterm as he explained and in some cases it it can work in some cases it's not but I I I really think that we're we're not doing the full service of the right way to do this if we just start with a number and say well we're not going to go beyond that we really need to look at all of the needs because it's cutting off your nose in spite of your face Mark did did uh Lisa just say that our CPA said we we have 40% in Hurricane fund okay I know 10 million is not a lot of money to have in in a in a bad hurricane but but he said 25% and we have 40% I'm aware of that and this has come up multiple times and here's my standard response that's from a mainlander that doesn't live in the most Hurrican prone country in the nation and we we have a little bit different risk here I understand Mark I was born and raised right here do you you more than anyone understand that so I I this is one of those times where the rules on the mainland don't always work the for our best interest down family lost 39 family members in the 35 storm y so okay okay so what do we need to do here's the thing we you guys you voted three so let's that's fine we didn't vote we just we're just saying we could agree to go along with that yeah I mean there's no final decision here we have an opportunity to change it again and vote at the budget hearing whatever let's move on every year I try to I want to try to do what's right and try to lower because all of us I mean I see my taxes and I'm like you know if you own a home or two the second home and you're not you're not Homestead man the taxes go up like okay you know what I will since you did ask my opinion yeah I think we should go back and revisit the workforce housing issue and take it to three because you know we're pretending like we're doing the best thing for the community and and I'm not sure if we are I think that we have this this you know we um could spend more time on this we could have a more thorough conversation and um and hey you know what you did ask I know you're sorry that you asked we got to don't forget we were going to take a break at quarter till and we're still wait but you asked me right you asked me I did so um I both said throw your two so I think that we should have a more thorough conversation about real needs of this community and then look at these numbers no I already I mean we've been looking at these and we had to make a decision and I just felt like I I agree with Henry and I have every year since he on 20 trying to get them down and it just seems like for one reason or another and there's a lot of other cities that I've seen in Florida that have lowered their they did a roll back you know I I understand we're in alado Florida and there's a lot of wealthy people that live here but there's also a lot of people that are struggling here so and they live in Workforce housing which we don't have but let's move on you know what what amazes me is that you can't sorry for the reference there's an expression you can't sling a dead cat in this town without hitting a millionaire this is the wealthiest place other than ocean reef and Manalapan that I've ever been to but it's not every body it's not everybody and so when you and that's the point when you make some of these Cuts you're affecting the people that you're trying to protect and me too so it's you it's not an across theboard even thing I think St John say exceeded Naples as the per capita income I I don't know I sometimes I make up statistics when it comes to talking about taxes because it's all Bs in the end I tell you what I was the highest employer in the county for a number of years years and you know what everybody lived here everybody could afford to live here nobody came from homestead things have changed the culture of this city has changed there's no question about it all right so are we okay we're going to take a break now before our six o'clock in okay oh that's right van thank you very much I wasn't van it was Oh I thought okay I'm just assuming it's fan okay let's uh Marne can we open public comment up here and staff as far as I think Rob are we okay to let staff at this point that yeah okay all right uh public comment is now open Marne who's first first is Joe wishme okay yes thank you for the opportunity to uh to speak here towards the end of this meeting a couple things I would like to point out one thing that I didn't see up on this chart was uh on the proposed budget is 24, 43,000 the revenue at 3 Mills would be 27,878 that's going to be in the general fund so even if you went down to the roll back rate there would still be money going into the fund so uh the revenue at the roll back rate is 24 m867 which is still more than what the actual budget would be so I would hope that you would keep that in consideration when you're figuring your final millage rate the last thing I'd like to talk talk about is a lot affordable housing gets tossed around all the time now maybe it's just me but there's I think there's a big difference between affordable housing and Workforce housing Workforce housing to me means you need like apartment buildings or something that a bartender or a waitress can afford they can't afford a $700,000 house or 1.3 million you know as it says up here so when you're considering this I really wish you would Define and instead of keeping saying affordable housing I wish you would start saying Workforce housing and make it affordable for them thank you thank you who's next Marne van Caden head if I knew he's going to be in there in there like swimwear brother um I'm van Caden head from Alam marada and to follow behind Miss Mr wishm uh we bought a piece of property that used to be the Irene and Georges and Island silver and spice and uh we know that we could possibly build 17 units of Workforce housing there uh Mr Pender pointed out that we have a a had a deal with Habitat for Humanity for 811s they had the money they had the momentum they were ready to rock and roll and we sat around and and hypothesized and theorized and and uh philosophized that away now I I think we should definitely work for I and we were promised when we spent $2.75 million for that property for iring and georgas that we would have charettes we would have public workshops we would have a discussion of the people who provided that $2.75 million and all this time after the purchase we've not had one discussion of what's going to happen there it's turned into a a storage yard for the pipeline so I would urge that we would do that uh if you and and I appreciate uh uh Mrs Jo jolan's uh comments about uh never work never moving on Workforce housing and to follow up also on on the presentation we had yesterday about the the renovation of the pool now the pool has never been emptied for since this was built as far as I know and uh it seems like uh uh Miss Mahoney has an in with the water company and they don't know where to what to do with all that water well we're building the pipeline why can't we have them drain the pool into those water trucks and use it uh to to uh keep the dust down while they're building the pipeline you know let's let's get you know let's let's um get our money for our our uh not waste the water cuz they're using portable water that that we need just to keep the dust down and and save the Dolphins so I would urge that that when you have the renovation of the pool that you would establish that was never done to begin with a pool vacuum system we have no pool vacuum system there's most pools have it you have a you know they go in the side of the pool you can keep the pool clean with a vacuum you can have the life go guards that aren't working at saving lives they can be cleaning the pool and vacuuming and keeping it nice because now at this point one of the reasons that we have such a bad looking pool as far as algae growth goes is because it's not being cleaned it's there's black uh uh algae in there there's green algae on the side and it's not a healthy environment I mean you can keep adding chemicals all day long and it's not going to kill that that algae so those two points I would like to make I thank you very much for the for the uh opportunity to speak and U I wish you luck and and also urge rollback thank you Henry uh Mar any other public comment yep uh Deb Gillis followed by Don Horton de Gillam Rada thank you for putting this at the end of the meeting I was able to come early um so first I want to spend a couple minutes on the Hurricane fund the 25 versus 40 we are a different area than the rest of the State uh it is I I know we're matching what the county did but uh when we had that hurricane and it is the last major hurricane that we had was Irma that money that we had set aside put this town back in business um very quickly or reasonably quickly and it is a proven fact the longer businesses are out of business because of storms because of floods because of whatever the less chance that they have to come back and be a viable business so it's important that you do keep that money I I know it's a lot of money sitting in that account but it it paid off and I sat on those councils and and um yeah we had a lot of push from people saying well you got a lot of money there um I'll tell you the 6 months after that they were saying I'm so glad you had a lot of money sitting there because it made a difference on who we got in here to clean up and do whatever um struggles of affordable housing uh yes we need to move ahead with stuff uh but we also need to look at um cutting the cost of of of of the economy I guess around here um maybe an economic Committee of some sort to help Chase certain companies to come into this town part of the problem uh of the the lower income people is that there's no good place for them to buy stuff here in town they have to go all the way to the mainland to get stuff we need I don't I don't know who we get but we need like a a little department store is what we need um but that's part of the problem I mean I know Dollar Tree wasn't the most favorite place of everybody but there was a lot of people that are on that lower and come that they use that because they could go in there and get a a dollar and a quarter meal they could actually do that um we did have Merit raises in our budget a couple years ago uh a couple manag years ago I'm going to say I think it's fallen through the cracks over the years uh and it's probably wasn't even that long years ago it was a number of managers ago so I'm glad to hear that coming back um 5% raise would be really nice on my income too thank you uh affordable housing projects uh We've delayed and delayed and delayed some um there's there's there's a couple projects coming forward very quickly that people are going well I don't know it might create traffic we have to decide what we want to do this stuff yes sir I'm working on that thank you and Don Horton Don Horton 47 scooner Bay um you know I had a council person tell me four years ago look if we don't use the money that we're collecting because we we uh uh we we had a pretty good increase four years ago that we just give it back and I still hadn't seen that um thank God he's not sitting up here right now too look I agree that staff needs to get ahead they uh uh uh they work hard for us they're good staff uh just getting a cola raise and staying even ESP especially with biomics isn't getting anybody anywhere you saw the rais of hands they can't afford to live in Island Mora I'm sure they'd love to live right down the street from here instead of wherever they live um look I'm not going to ask you to specifically what milit rate you should drop to rollover seems to be a little bit too low um but but certainly we need to I don't think we need to be at 40% uh there's dollars out there I think we need to start looking elsewhere for dollars and I think that there's resiliency dollars and there's other dollars that are at the state that we need to start pushing for we need to start looking other ways to spend you know our our money out there rather than taxpayer money uh because it raises the it raises the rent it it you know it's the homeowner but it's not just the homeowner it's the folks that pay rent too those that don't pay rent it doesn't matter to them you know um don't sometimes understand why they get upset about it but um I think that we probably should start looking at lowering that 40% and and maybe finding that middle ground that yugan Henry and and Sharon are looking at so thanks thank you Don Marney anybody else anybody on Zoom or let me double check Zoom but I don't believe so no no one unz no one else public comment is now closed unless there's anybody else in this room that wants to speak no takers all right public comment is now closed all right do I hear an inj German for this so we can take a break don't okay thank you thank everybody for coming thank you staff for being diligent for yesterday and today I e