e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e call this meeting to order Marney would you call the role please council member Mark Greg yes here council member Elizabeth Jolan yes council member Henry Rosen all yes vice mayor Sharon Mahoney here and mayor buddy Pender here we have a quorum all right I've uh Mr Harris is going to lead us in the pledge plge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty Justice for All and I've ask uh Pastor Hammond if he would lead us in prayer so thank you Tony absolutely my coach's hat is officially off so okay let's uh let's bow together father thank you so much for tonight and thank you for this Council we pray your blessing over this evening and give us wisdom as we uh move through the evening we these things in your precious name amen amen thank you Tony okay so all right uh additions and emergency I mean deletions and emergency additions anybody have anything they would like to you know know from Tuesday we had said we were going to talk about a development Review Committee and I had asked to put it on for tonight it's not showing on my agenda but if we could just talk about that briefly okay when do we want to do that Al under uh mayor council Communications yeah yeah okay all right okay so let's put that down John did um uh on Tuesday we had the after Action Report did was there anything that you all wanted to talk about on that um if so we can add that as well if not yes okay I know Bam Bam okay let me get that so we can add that under um village attorney Village man Communications might best spot okay I'm going to move that down there okay um there is one fellow that uh flew in for uh oh I'm sorry vice mayor go ahead I'm telling you um I'd like to have a uh quick discussion about Julian Garcia or police officer if that's okay and then I'd like to also talk about the Liaisons for the Committees what just for two minutes if that's doable okay so Julian and the committee the leaz on okay you that where are we going to put it we're going to put it under uh mayor council communication after the DRC uh after the development thing yes okay uh let's see committee layers on okay Sharon okay Henry anything I am Dona any my time to everybody else you are okay Mark anything else other than what we already talked about I'm with Henry okay all right so I've been ask Marne somebody has flown in from Georgia for this meeting I believe on the sojourn they were asking to come and speak uh they have a 10:45 flight Marne is that what it is 10:15 or something that's my understanding yes okay so council do we have any issues with moving that item up we all in agreement okay so John help us out that what tab let me see what those that's two tabs it's um tab H and tab I are the sojourn they're quasa judicial okay um so I will if wherever you Mo it I'll I'll read the quasa judicial script I'll do it just specifically for those though in case there's anybody coming late for the other ones that way they don't miss out on being so you and Rob help me out where where can we move it so we can move it up towards the front and get it taken care of for him you can move it to now if you'd like or you can put it I mean you can put it wherever you want but we could go right into it if you guys would like Council what would we like to do can we go right into it let's do it okay let's do it then okay all right so we we'll do that and and uh let's do public comment and then we'll we'll we could do citizens advisory and then how about okay so after general public comment yeah let's do let's do general public comment and then we'll do it and then we'll go to Citizens advisory and carry on can I can I suggest that you do citizens advisory first because the LPA would have a report on that item okay so let's do that thank you Jennifer so we'll do that uh Mr Quick we'll do public comment and then the citizens advisory report by Deb Gillis on the LPA all right is Deb Gillis here did she's going to do her report via Zoom this evening she is available okay all right okay all right okay so with that being said then Mr Quick can you lead us uh let's see no we're going to do public comment now yep what is so general public comment Marty we have anybody yes vanan Cadenhead okay thank good evening uh Council and ladies and gentlemen um in Isam marada we are in the midst of the throws of uh growing and uh we've been in the midst of the throws of growing for about the last 25 years and it's uh it's time that our uh Council and planning department and Monroe County government and the state government realize that once we're developed out to the borders of the property lines nobody's going to come here we're being o we we're overdeveloped as it is so anything that you talk about Redevelopment is is what should be on the agenda for Isam marada because uh the more trees you cut down the more land you scarify that's now got green on it the worse off we're going to be and I and I don't see uh that kind of uh protection coming from Florida commerce I don't see that kind of protection coming from Tallahassee I think we should we should uh establish the fact that we want to protect what we have and and try our utmost to ensure that we don't become uh a moot point as far as the tourists that want to come to the KE keys because what people came to the keys for is being eroded at an incredible rate uh by the by the expansions of of hotels by the expansions of of uh uh building we've already built out all of our Market rates and we're having to rely on moratoriums which I think is is just a stop Gap it has to be some kind of a sea change in the way people are thinking it can't be the way it is if it's the way it is um by the time we get to the the next election cycle not this coming one but the one after that there'll be nothing left to save and I won't I won't have to stand up here at all because there'll be nothing left to save and I've been trying to save Isa marada the sport fishing capital of the world for 25 years now and I'm getting pushed back pushed back pushed back and and there's very few people that will in the general public that that stand up behind me because they're apathetic because they realize as soon as they get up here to say something it's going to be uh curtailed or derailed or somehow uh uh sidelined and and the will of the building and development community and the and the Chamber of Commerce and the TDC and the rotary is going to be what controls this town and there's going to be no room for longtime res there's going to be no room for for middle class working class Blue Collar people because you don't want them because they can't pay you enough ADV velorum thank you very much you van Marty anybody else for general public comment no sir okay General P public comment is now closed all right can we have Deb Gillis give her report on the LPA hello can you hear me okay yes we can and maybe see me too we can see you Deb all right so I'm reporting on our May 13th meeting we had all seven members present and we had six items to review uh the first two items we talked about were the solden property which is on your agenda this evening uh this is actually a rehear from our January meeting we had an advertising eror and had to re rehear it uh the applicant requested a flume chain from conservation to mixed use and a zoning change from conservation to commercial fishing the LPA recommends that the that the council requests the applicant to do a flume change of mixed use with a special area of commercial fishing this would eliminate the uses that come with the mixed juuse we further request that the special area of commercial fishing be limited to the permitted uses in the commercial fishing zoning District but also include the um the one minor conditional use of dock facility we recommend these same changes for the zoning District to allow the three permitted uses and eliminate the minor conditional uses with the exception of the docking facility this was approved with the recommendation of the special area and the zone B District was approved with a six to zero with one upstanding the next items on the the agenda was The Flume and the zoning change for tea table uh the applicant requested a flume change from residential conservation to mixed use and a zoning change from native residential to commercial uh tourist commercial much of the discussion was around the improvements that would be made on the island the discussion also included what would happen at the sunset property and that it would be used for guest parking uh a check-in facility for the island and for 24 affordable units to be built the committee recommended denial of The Flume and the zoning change with a four to three vote we highly recommend that you uh review our meeting for more details of it was a long discussion um and that by reviewing it you get a better of our thought pattern the next item was a lot area resolution I'm sorry a lot area variance and you have that on your agenda this evening also it's a lot area variance that it would allow 5% or 250 square feet whichever is less this variance would allow only this this variance would be allowed only for affordable housing projects and only affected six properties there was a discussion about allowing undersized lots to receive an allocation if it was in just a minor uh amount needed um it provides this provides a relief for someone who doesn't have use of their property because of the small of not being able to meet the minimum area requirements uh this could possibly help avoid some lawsuits for non-use of property this was approved as presented five to one with one abstaining uh and our last item we had was the definition of Frontage the committee had a long discussion about the word adjoining as it was used in the definition presented the definition reads fronting means the front of a parcel which is adjoining a specif specified location we decided that there was not enough Clarity on the word adjoining we denied the definition as presented 6 to0 but recommend that this be reworked to use the word boundary line as a basis instead of the word adjoining and I'll be online I apologize for not being able to be there in present um but I'll be online if you need some clarification on any of our stuff all right Council any questions for Deb okay thank you Deb thank you okay all right Mr Quick now can we uh move to tab H and I yes uh would you like me to read the quas judicial for all of the items or just h& and then we can reread the script for the other items uh when we get to those I'd say go just read it for H and I okay all right so we're into the quasa judicial section specifically for tabs h& I please be advised that the following agenda items are Quasi judicial in nature if we wish to comment upon these items please inform the village clerk by filling out the available signup form an opportunity for persons to speak on each item will be made available after the applicant and staff have made their presentations on each item as a reminder testimony and quasa judicial items must be in person Zoom testimony is not permitted these proceedings will be handled in accordance with with the village code requirements all testimony including public testimony and evidence will be made under oath or affirmation additionally each person who gives testimony may be subject to cross-examination if you do not wish to be either cross-examined or sworn your testimony shall be disregarded the general public will not be permitted to cross-examine Witnesses but the public May request the uh Council to ask questions of Staff or Witnesses on their behalf the full agenda packet on each item is hereby entered into the record along with the village code and comprehensive plan any correspondence that was received by Village staff is included in in the file and part of the record persons representing organizations must present evidence of their authority to speak for the organization further details of the quasa judicial procedures in sections 30- 256 of the village code may be obtained from the village clerk uh tonight at least at this point in the agenda there are two quasa judicial items they're tabs H and I at this time I would like to ask anyone who intends to speak on the quas judicial items tonight to please raise your hand to be sworn in by the clerk if you intend to speak at all and again this is on tabs H and I I in the matter in which you about to give testimony do you swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth what this have been sworn uh Mr Mayor and councel in the past when we've had tandem items like this we have dealt with them uh as one although obviously we vote and we deal with each each resol or uh each item uh individually um would uh would you like to do that uh at this time as well deal with both tabs a I in one quad judicial hearing since they since they Sister Sister items that's fine with me if Council everybody agrees with it okay and and I think Mr Harris is the uh agent for the applicant any objection with that good okay um so I'll read the uh titles of those um tab H is in ordinance of is marata Village of violence Florida considering the request of Tai Harris PA agent for sojourn South LLC to amend The Village's future land use map from conservation to mixed use for the subject property located on lower mumbi key with real estate number 00 39448 d108 as legally described herein providing for the transmittal of this ordinance to the State Department of Commerce and providing for an effective date upon the approval of this ordinance by the State Department of Commerce and then tab I is an ordinance of Isam Mara Village of Island Florida considering the request of Tai Harris PA agent for sojourn South LLC to amend the official zoning map from conservation to commercial fishing for the subject property located on lower mumi key with real estate number 00 39448 000018 as legally described herein providing for the transmittal of this ordinance to the State Department of Commerce providing for effective date upon the approval of this ordinance by the State Department of Commerce Council uh before we begin I'd like you to please disclose any exp parte Communications that you may have had with the applicant or anyone else and again this is limited to tabs H and I and please include whether the person represented any group or entity as well as the subject matter as you recall thank thank you none for me Henry anything for you um one person Sue Miller Sharon um I've spoken with Tai in the past but nothing recently Elizabeth nothing I spoke to Tai in the past but I also said hi to Mr uh Carrie Marsh tonight and Mr Shuster okay so and somebody else that uh they're uh just high but nothing about the property so okay um okay we are ready to proceed good evening Council Jennifer deor and planning director for the village of Isam Mara I'm here this evening as Mr Quick stated for uh so South LLC for their map Amendment request for approval for the future land use map Amendment from conservation to mixed use as well as their companion Amendment to the zoning map for the proposed change of conservation to commercial fishing the subject property is located on a vacant site in lower mumbi with the real estate number 00 39448 d108 it is comprised of 1.74 plus or minus Acres the site has historically been used for storage of lobster traps repair of lobster traps and docking facilities for commercial fishing vessels the site is adjacent to the Lobster walk one of the only two remaining commercial fish fishing uses with within the village the applicant is requesting this amendment to support the return of the property to its prior zoning prior to to its zoning prior to incorporation of the village the subject property again has 1.74 AC acre par on the vacant parcel the property contains no significant habitat and is mostly devoid of all vegetation except on the shoreline the property is not recognized as Habitat to any state or federal listed animal species it is not within the state conservation Recreation lands boundary or critical area habitat and pursuant to to The Village's GIS data or records the parcel is not identified as any specific habitat the subject property currently has an existing commercial future land juuse designation the adjacent properties to the South are designated mixed juice with commercial fishing operations to the north the adjacent properties are designated residential high and currently V and are currently vacant but have been permitted for six single family residences the property to the east across overseas our conservation to the West the property directly AB but the Cove but Across The Cove the properties are designated residential high with a mix of Condominiums duplexes and single family homes the character of the subject property again is vacant and the surrounding area is mixed use with a collective of commercial fishing operations multif family dwelling units and single family res residences and vacant land the subject property had currently has an existing conservation zoning District designation the adjacent properties to the South are designated commercial fishing to the north the adjacent properties are designated multif family the properties to the east across Overseas Highway are designated conservation and to the West the property directly above the buts The Cove but across the Cod the properties are designated residential duplex R2 and multif family MF the character again is vacant and the surrounding area is mixed use with commercial fishing operations multif family single family and vacant land in your packet this evening there is um an analysis of the uh request um I will just say that the proposed F Amendment from conservation to mixed juice in conjunction with the zoning map Amendment um would allow that the use the uses that have continued to operate as legal nonform uses to operate legally and that areas designated on mixed use areas designated mixed use on the future land use map recognize the prevalent historical mixed use pattern of development in the village the mixed use designation shall accommodate a mixture of commercial and residential uses which may be located in the same building limited public and semi-public uses recreational facilities schools marinas tourist facilities and supportive Community facilities ancillary to the permitted uses pursuant to the standards of the comprehensive plan in the Land Development regulations the impact on public and policy analysis is in your packet and um at it Deb previously stated at its meeting on May 13th the LPA voted to recommend the flum amendment um but also creating a sub area which would limit the permitted uses in the commercial fish District Two commercial fishing uses only as well as docking facilities exclusive of all other uses allowed in the mixed juice flum as far as the zoning Amendment goes pursuant to section 30-41 d4b of the code of ordinances The Village Council must find that the application is consistent with the comprehensive plan and the applicant has complied with all procedural requirements of the section and that the maintenance of existing zoning on the property does not accomplish a legitimate public purpose The Village Council shall make its determination on finding of a legitimate public purpose based on one or more of the following factors number one the demand for the proposed zoning District in the village in relation to the amount of land currently zoned and available to accommodate that demand pursuant to The Village's GIS data and Records there are approximately 11 Parcels that are designated with commercial fishing District which represents approximately 0.002% of the 7,18 total Parcels within the village of Isam marada of the 11 Parcels within the commercial fishing district one parcel is vacant which equ equates to approximately 9% of the total commercial fishing parcel districts District Parcels number two compatibility of the site's physical geological hydrological and other environmental features with the uses permitted in the proposed zoning designation the site is currently operating as a use permitted in the proposed zoning designation there should be no additional impact number three data errors including errors in mapping vegetative T types natural features described in the comprehensive plan there is no evidence that there are any errors in the gis data records or other resources number four new issues there are no new issues anticipated because there are no proposed changes to the sign subject property number five recognition of a need for additional detail or comprehensiveness there is no need for additional detail because there are no proposed changes to the subject property number six compatibility to the proposed District within the pro with the property surrounding the site of the requested Zone rezoning in any applicable neighborhood or Redevelopment plan as previously indicated the surrounding properties to the South are designated commercial fishing the property will be compatible to the immediately adjacent properties and their uses and again at May 13th meeting the LPA voted to recommend the approval of the proposed amendment but creating the sub area which would limit the property to permitted uses in commercial fishing as well as docking facilities based on all this information and the information in your packet staff has reviewed the request for the official flum Amendment and the official zoning map Amendment and recommends approval at this time I'm here if you have any questions Council anybody have any questions for Jennifer sure go ahead Jennifer were you making the recommendation With The Changes suggested by the LPA or just making the recommendation as it's stated here I'm just making the recommendation as it's stated here thank you okay anybody else Henry Sharon okay okay uh okay Mr Harris good evening everybody Tai Harris with the law firm of Tai Harris PA 110 Plantation Shores Drive Taver Florida thank you again for moving us up so that we can get some of the folks out um really this is a continuation of a conversation we started a couple of months ago with is Mora Community Church um both the the owners of this property who have owned it for over two decades are here Neil Schuster and Carrie Marsh uh they thought it was important to be here uh especially with a lot of the rumors flying around about this property uh first thing I would want to point out in your packet there is a a survey of the property there's also an aerial that shows the zoning and the first thing that stands out is most of this property is underwater I it's underwater they're two little sections on on the North and the South that are dry but for the most part it's underwater um when Carrie and Neil bought this property it was zoned commercial fishing 18 in the county and there are a lot of questions about what was commercial fishing 18 uh Neil because he keeps great records was able to provide that to me so I'm going to I want to read these uses out and that kind of sets the the framework for the conversation we're going to have tonight about what the appropriate use of the property and the appropriate zoning is for the property of course I have it upside down so commercial fishing 18 uses permitted as of right in commercial fishing sd8 include a those uses permitted as of right in the Suburban commercial District I I'll just stop there if anybody is familiar with the County zoning code the most valuable commercial District in the county is Suburban commercial and what makes it the most valuable it's the only commercial District versus C1 commercial one that allows a mixture of residential uses and Commercial uses so think of our Highway commercial and our Village Center all combined into one category and that's essentially Suburban commercial so that was the first thing on the list we haven't even gotten to fishing but that was the first thing on the list um B commercial fishing detached dwellings attached dwellings of less than six units Fishing Supply businesses restaurants and then uses permitted as minor conditional uses include those uses permitted as a minor conditional use again in Suburban commercial so that's what was in place when they purchased the property very similar to what happened with uh vice mayor Mahoney very similar to what happened with um with Al marado Community Church when the village came in and started redoing their Maps they removed the most valuable uses of the property and they did this as we've discussed by a notice in a newspaper in Key West they didn't notify any of these individuals or property owners that this was about to happen What adds a little more Intrigue to to this case is that there had been ongoing negotiations for the village to buy what we refer to as as soj South and and soier north soier north is the one that was the subject of a lawsuit and we've already gone through that with the six uh six uh houses that will be built to the north so now we're just talking about the south parcel so in that context it's important to understand what was taken away taken away it wasn't freely given what should have happened in hindsight was when the deal fell through for the village to purchase this property The Village on its own motion on its own dime should have restored the commercial uses of the property because now here we are two decades later you've got residential uses that have grown accustomed to thinking that this is a conservation parcel who are now upset that there could be a more intense use on the property um the first thing I will say is I'm here to to relieve you of those those concerns we are completely happy to accept the recommendation of the LPA and limit it to commercial fishing and docks that's it um all the wild stories about we're going to put a bar and a restaurant I've I've challenged myself as a planner and an attorney to actually try to fit something like that onto those two little parcels and by the time you put the setbacks the parking requirements the buffers uh you can have a building maybe 5T wide so it's actually not a a use that could happen um but let's go ahead and dispel that that's any way a possibility by going ahead and just accepting the LPA recommendation um I I would like to say thank you thank you to U vice mayor Mahoney who attempted to um to have the neighbors that were sending lots of emails to you all opposing the property and opposing the the comp plan the rezoning she tried to reach out to them uh to have a meeting with me and my clients were absolutely in favor of it so that we could have this discussion that we're having tonight without having the the pain of a lot of misinformation being out there um unfortunately whomever was guiding that group uh refused to meet with us so the the offer the offer was out there and it was not accepted um so I would like to at this point kind of wrap it up say some time for rebuttal uh the staff report constitutes substantial competent evidence to support a decision to approve The Flume in the zoning change and so at this point I can just play defense and if I need to I will on rebuttal thank you for your time thank you Ty all right so John do we need to move to public comment now on this uh those that are forward and those that are against it anybody okay does it matter which we do first uh yeah the code requires um let me it's uh uh let me pull up the code I'm sorry give me one second I believe it's opposed I believe it's opposed to I just didn't want to misspeak okay sorry about that it's um participants in support of the application make their presentations and then participants in opposition okay so we need to go with oppose first no support first support okay so anybody that is here that wants to speak on behalf of supporting this what Mr Harris just talked about Marney who do we have that signed up for uh for supporting it well we have um Neil Schuster Owen marman Frank Cabrera and Donna Cabrera okay all right I guess Mr Schuster can go first then thank you I wanted to uh put a face to the ownership of the property um since 1998 uh I've owned uh the property with my partner who's also here uh Mr Marsh and uh we're here today to ask uh the commission to give back what it took before and it took before valuable rights and only for the reason to try and put itself in a better bargaining position to buy the property as a park which It ultimately decided not to do so we're going back to uh 1998 with discussions 1999 when Jim Mooney was the uh mayor and uh you know we're we're really here today after spending 25 years as commercial fisherman and Mr Owen maramman is here who you know one of the many people who fish out of that property and has for decades and the historic use is very important and the historic use is commercial fishing property could use some repairs but we don't want to go to the expense of docks when we're still Zone commercial even though uh uh we're we're grandfathered you know we want to be good members of the community and make it a a better property for the fishermen and from what I heard from the Planning Commission 0.2% of the entire town is Zone commercial fishing when we want to be known as the sport fishing capital of of of the world so when we're asking the commission to do what really should have been done two decades and we're a little bit slow not having done it you know we're just we're just asking you to uh uh restore us and to promote what Isa Mara really wants for itself we could put more boats on the property we could do more fishing uh we could bring in the public that hasn't visited Isa marada yet and uh uh I I I really appreciate this opportunity to appear before you and and and to thank the Planning Commission for its recommendation and I hope that you uh see your way to allow this to be restored to where it should have been a long time ago thank you Mr Shuster thank you all right who's next Marne is uh Mr marman good evening Council good evening my name is Owen maramman um I'm a retired state trooper out of the keys I did 15 years as a state trooper here and I've been in the lower matad area now for about 12 to 13 years as not only as a commercial lobster fishing fisherman but also as um a wholesaler I'm not for the change in zoning so be that they leave the fisherman there the commercial fisherman I don't know if you all understand but I get calls every single day from Key West all the way to kilargo asking me if I have storage or places for boats docks uh storage for their traps like I said I've been doing this now for just over 12 13 years in that area and every day there's less and less areas for fishermen to go to I'm not talking about the guys with the million dooll Yachts that are you know charging tourists $2,000 to go out for a couple hours fishing I mean the local guys that are fishing their lobsters here so I'm all for the the change so be that they do leave it as as a a place where local fishermen and lobstermen can can keep their Vats all right thank you very much it's Owen right Owen Mar thank you Owen okay all right who's next Frankie cabara or Donna Caba yes I have Frank and Don hello how you doing my family came down Frankie tell them who you are everybody know yeah hello my name is Frank Hera my family came down in the 60s we used to fish out of green turtle fishery and we fished her for a while and then uh it got bought out to uh for worldwide and then we went down to in the 80s we went down to Lobster walk just south of there and we started fishing there and it's just we're getting pushed out and pushed out and uh we got Lobster walk our family has Lobster Ro my brother passed away and I have it now we have it my mom and us and uh we want to keep fishery going in in the Florida Keys it's not it's just they're pushing us out and pushing us out and there's only how many a few a few a few Lots left that we can keep fishing in and that's a perfect spot and I've been there since the 80s 85 86 87 and then my brother took it over I fished there and when he came he took it over and and now I'm there and we we need we need room to store traps and and keep our fishery going that's okay right thank you for thank you I don't know if we can hey John we can we can we ask the questions of the people speaking or not uh yes you can jolan's asking yes yes you can that that's um yeah I mean it's later in the uh in in the timeline but yes Council can ask questions okay uh Donna come on Donna Caba right Donna Caba Frankie's wife um I met Frank over 30 years ago and the first time I met his father was on a fishing boat in that exact base in there um and it's always been commercial fishermen and local fishermen and I just I support and and they're constantly calling us as he said he has the pro his mom has the property just south and they need space they're getting pushed out of everywhere there's nowhere to go and that's what we'd like it to remain that's what it's been so thank you all right thank you Donna Mr Mayor just a one followup on the order the the code does say that if the council agrees to a different order it can so if you all would like to in uh effort of U you know Expediting it you can you can move the questioning along as well do we have anybody else that wants to speak for it here anybody else all right because I see people that live very close to there that grew up here um so anyways um and just a reminder if you do want to speak you need to get your cards in Marne before the item is called all right so so with that let's close support we have anybody that's opposing it um I have one neutral party and Van kidna that okay all right all right go ahead let's do that then I want to I want to say my piece oh man they're touching my heart man because my family came here were they were Pioneers in the fishing industry and so who's who's going to speak next Van van okay it's what built ALR of the fishing industry and I couldn't agree with you more and I don't I it's I think I was the neutral one but uh all my questions have been addressed and I firmly stand with all the commercial fishermen who have been there for 30 years and I acknowledge that they need a place to store their traps repair their traps do their lines whatever they need and and I hope that uh the planning department will see fit to allow them to to uh improve uh that southern part to protect the mangroves and actually get in a couple more boats you know expand what's there a little bit for the benefit of the fishing industry which is a very important part of Isam marada thank you very much thank you van who else Marne no one else has signed up else okay hey I I just want to re reiterate and I know Tony's sitting there smiling he can he's he's Patty's been here I see a I know a lot of people here but you know last year I was invited to fly to Bahamas for Save the Queen and I you know I told a few people Alam marada they're like what has conch got to do with Alam marada okay uh you know what if if any I I tell you what a lot of people don't know but leadership Monroe will open people's eyes because we were a conking industry we were a turtling industry we were a sponging industry we were a lobster industry we were a uh stonecrab industry fishing yellow taale grouper Wahoo I mean Sid Roxy you know they did it all okay I see the eer sitting here okay they grew up same thing in Lord mumi I mean they could walk out on the flats and get conks there you know so this to me is really got me a little emotional and man I'm hearing and and you know I had Adam Hill from hills Fisheries the kilargo Fisheries call me about and he told me a little story about Jack Hill as Grandpa and he said he said my grandpa told me son you you got to learn to speak because the the future Generations are depending on what few fishing rights and fishing areas that we have left in the keys and this is what the whole Keys was built on all right all up and down the keys Key West all the way to key West and we still depend on it bone fishing we okay we somebody on Council right here is an Eco right councilman Joe uh jool ly she does eco tours you know with the birds with the fishing with it so you know there's a lot of people that depend on this and you know I I'm just before we get into anymore I I just say really this really we need to keep what little bit we have left all right and if me personally I you know I I think we should because what about the future Generations in Spanish Wells the the fishermen there that Lobster fish that go out for a month a lot of the younger Generations they don't want to do it they want to build vacation rentals they don't want to go out for three weeks at a time and stuff but that's the history you know that's what's made that island and the Bahamas what they are and and and a lot of people that came here like my family Rich Russell's family they migrated from the Bahamas so uh and I my heart Owen goes out to you man because you retired and you you know you want to keep what's right here and you know so anyhow I've said my peace counsel anybody else want to say anything I I want to say a few things and um I I don't feel comfortable knowing things that that were not mentioned that I know of of my own personal life experience and time here in the Keys and I don't I don't want to provide testimony but I think it's important to say uh being in the position I'm in here on the council my first trip to the Keys was in the summer of 1972 we lived in Cutler Ridge and we drove down here and I think that's the first place I saw a lobster trap and we pulled over uh and uh I was mesmerized by him I didn't I'd come from Alabama I didn't know what a lobster trap was and I was fascinated it was an Allure for me to want to come back which I did when I got a driver's license um I parked across the street on what used to be a wide Beach area and there was a um there was a billboard there and I used to park in the shade in my red Plymouth with a 383 four barrel and dual exhaust and I would go out and catch conch on the flats but I remember seeing the traps across the street and my memory isn't as good you know 50 years later as it used to be but I believe there was a dipping station there for the traps and if you know what that was in the old days the wood wasn't very long lasting and the worms would eat it up and so they would dip them in a solution of I guess it was oil and diesel fuel and God knows what other nastiness uh but it it allowed the traps to last a little longer fortunately we've improved our environmental practices and that doesn't happen anymore but as long as I can remember those traps have been there those fishermen have been there and that inspired me to later when I moved here full-time I became a commercial fisherman I held a license for over 30 years I pulled traps some by hand when I was young and strong and um I know what it's like to find a place to put your traps in your boat and how to make a living or each at least to try to break even which I rarely did uh but I didn't do it for the money I Did It For the Love of being on the water and enjoying the lifestyle so and the lifestyle is part of the community character which is mentioned on our mission statement up there so to me this is about protecting our heritage the history of the property it was zoned for commercial fishing before the village took over and we've heard people complain at various zoning meetings about spot zoning and I think this is an error on the part of the village where it committed the sin of spot zoning when it redid this uh on its own against the will of the owners and this is consistent with what Mr Harris said on other properties that was that did occur and I sat here in not in this room but in the old room and when that vote came I proud voted against it for that reason uh it was it was uh it was wrong and this is a chance to make it right so one thing I haven't heard anyone mention which I think is also important it's mentioned in our code on our state law which this is a working Waterfront and that means that people make their living from this and you've heard the testimony of the the fisherman that's uh from was a State Trooper forgot your name Owen please thank you and uh it's harder and harder for fishermen to find a place to keep their boats their traps and their gear and so I think this is part of our community it's part of our heritage and it's our duty to do our best to preserve it so I I even though the property is Zone conservation and it would be against my will normally to to go against that this is not a natural Shoreline that's a man-made water body and it's eroding and I think the owners are now willing to invest some money to put dockage in there and to stop the erosion and uh make that a more environmentally friendly and healthier Waterway for everybody including the folks that live across the way I do remember that for the longest time there was a a failed development there with um piling sticking out of the ground I don't know if it was called Captain's Cove or something like that but it's now the big condominium that's across the way which by the way half of those are vacation rentals and so um to me this is an example of how the community started out having a problem but the conversation evolved along the way to where it seems like most people are happy I mean we didn't fill up the room with uh half the room opposed and half the room in favor so this is a good example of how it can work and we can move forward and make things better for everybody so um that's my my story and I'm sticking to it thank you so councilman rosenfall I know you were big in the seafood yourself buying the turtle and Whale Harbor okay making Turtles soup right and Kong chowder I first arrived here in 58 58 you guys were in school somewhere I was two years old you were you were two I was two okay well what can I tell you in okay uh I found nothing here to encourage me to stay my main objective in 50 eight was to find a gas station so I get enough gas to get the hell out of here and gas stations were at a premium in 58 that was my first experience I came back less than 10 years later um I want to hear a little more about what we're talking about on the page quite Frank frankly rather than giving you a personal background of mine which is doesn't have a damn thing to do with this really it really doesn't but fishing is very very important I understand all that I was in the business for a number of years and believe it or not yes I once went out and pulled traps once because somebody challenged me in some Saloon someplace and I I went out and I stayed home for two more days after that I think anyway not to treat this subject light because I do understand the importance of the fishing Community we're built on the fishing Community amongst a lot of things and um I want to hear some more yeses and Nos and just I want to hear a little bit more um I'm definitely in support of the fishing Community I have some reservations about zoning changes I've lived here long enough to understand zoning changes what they were originally meant to be give it a few years later they become something else and I'm concerned about that it was noted that uh with the the change May pruce a restaurant or something equal to that and it could be it could be I'm not so sure that's the appropriate way to go you convince me of that I'm I'm open to be convinced my main question is and I'm I'll direct it to you is that the efforts of your client is to preserve ve what's there now is that correct yes sir and if you want to preserve what's there now why are we jumping all those Hoops that's already there that's a very good question and I have a very good answer well I I I anticipate that so if you want to give me that answer now I'll be look absolutely so under the conservation zoning District which is what it is now there are only two approved uses boardwalks and Communications Towers a couple of years ago um we were approached by a cell tower company that wanted to put a 75 ft high tower up on that property um but that didn't seem very appropriate uh for the area and they turned it down even though that would have been a nice Revenue stream um what's happened over the years um Henry is that the property is starting to erode it has a rip wrap and it's starting to to go away um some folks have blown some hurricane holes into the shoreline and in general um it's a little bit of a problem we cannot put a dock there unless the zoning is changed to commercial fishing and typically I don't think you should use sub area policies uh on individual Lots I don't think it's a good planning tool and I that's one of the reasons I don't think Jennifer supported that because it starts a bad precedent typically when you talk about sub area you talk about multiple Parcels that Encompass some kind of common denominator not just one parcel but in this case it's a little bit different because there's been all these concerns about a restaurant about housing about about a bar and so the only way to ensure that it remains commercial fishing with docks is to put the Subara policy in because that is a comp plan policy it doesn't go into the zoning part it's a comp plan so that protects the use that prohibits all the other uses except for a docking facility and Commercial Fishing so when you talk about putting your money where your mouth is I I can't do any more than that other than maybe you know write it in blood but that's about it um so like I said it's not a typical thing that you want to do with your sub area policies to focus it on one piece of property but in this case to keep the neighbors across the canal from worrying about a future where there could be a restaurant a future where there could be something else this is how you do it I hope that answered your question I get paid by the word hey Henry you know I I just want to thank you because you you could have lb was selling out and you kept the canery going I I remember very well that you did The Conch and the turtle okay uh Sid Roxy because you bought the turtle so I want to say because as a young guy growing up I sold a lot of con to him diving in the afternoon you know Sandy man Trevor man's Daddy and Danny bordon and a bunch of us would dive conks for him well I used to run with your father and I used to run with your father did you got stories about that that that tells a lot yeah there so but again you're not in interested in my history so I've been here for a while obviously winess the good and the bad and I suppose the ugly if I have to use that word so I I will be supportive of your Endeavor in some form or fashion I haven't quite made up my mind just yet so okay fair enough all right uh vice mayor Mahoney um I have two issues with this um first of all I am a victim and it is a victim of the zoning changes that happened um I was rezoned and everybody said what' you wait so long for I didn't even know for 12 years I was rezoned Who would know that unless you read the back of a paper which I don't do and so uh the first issue is the fact that you know it was rezone conservation I was rezone residential and I have a greenhouse with no roof figure that out and um right there is a big issue for me with taking people's property rights and I know people have moved in and out of the key since uh the rezoning that was done in the late 90s and so they didn't know what happened they think this property has always been conservation and it hasn't I'm not as old as Henry seems to think I am but I'm a conch I'm born and raised in the keys um I think Buddy might be older than me but um um it was always commercial fishing and it was um always where George wood uh his son was a very good friend of mine and just that's the area where in the summertime you'd want to go down there and watch the traps and just I don't know what was so fascinating about it Jimmy Jimmy Woods yes Jimmy Woods but um I grew up on the Bayside and uh we were on Waterfront and back then on the Bayside on on a Saturday morning and I had three sisters we could just go in front of our house just in front of our property and get fill the bottom of our wooden rowboat which we had with a dozen crawfish conch starfish it was everything I used to have my own little fish tank with little seahorses in it just by scooping what I used to call hairy monsters but they're grass patches but um that's all gone now there is nothing in front of our family home home anymore as far as activity of lobster or con or anything and we know the dollar has crept into the keys and we are squeezing out what this place was built on and I agree that we need to keep this and I support them wholeheartedly because if you took the time when I tried to set up the meeting and talk to Ty Harris and Carrie and you'll find out that it's not going to be a restaurant it's not going going to be a bar those questions could have been answered when I tried to arrange a meeting and for whatever reason a lot of the residents didn't and that's how our great rumor pull here in the keys goes next thing you know listen I'm building a strip mall I was told with my property so you got to deal with the facts you got to look at people's rights and we have to try to hang on to what this place was I'm blessed to have grown up here when I did it is something that I am the one of the luckiest people in the world to have seen the keys when it was truly truly the keys and um I just think that if we keep selling out like we do and not hang on to what we are the place is gone so yeah thank you um this is a great conversation because we're referencing a time that has um that is like you said completely gone um every decision we make here I I think should be um a reflection of the fact that um yes we are changing and I mean we have 12 more decisions tonight that have to do with development and how we're building out and the more we do that yet the the the less fish there are in our ocean for people to enjoy and and um profit from um so um a couple thoughts here um uh you know this is not these are not this is nothing against our the owner or or Mr Harris at all but you know I come to the table with a very skeptical nature and um I don't know why um I'm a little I had the question Henry said I mean it's operating as commercial fishing now um I don't know why we would need to change it I'm I if we even entertain the idea of a sub area I would like to see a very clear definition before we actually take a vote on what will happen there I heard the owner um respectfully say we want to have more docks more boats I mean I I I don't know I don't know how many more docks I want in that Basin because more docks being more people more jet skis more more right docking facilities is a real kind of alarm for me what what does that mean does that mean you know restaurants bar I mean again I know I know we're having a conversation about no restaurants and bars but there's a lot of interpretation that can come with the term docking facilities um so I if I mean we are obviously in agreement that commercial fishing is critical now does it have to be on the back of this land owner that's a little strange I think there's a further conversation that this group can have about how else we can accommodate our commercial fishermen and how we can improve working Waterfront maybe we can put it on the agenda for next month um I I don't I mean talk about property rights I I don't I I don't know why this one individual would choose to I don't know bear the the burden of maintaining our heritage in this way um especially when they're building multi-million dollar homes right in that same area it's it's just my own personal skepticism again nothing personal that I bring to the table so um I um again I I think that we all should be skeptical considering what we see in the Florida Keys right now it and and how you go down a corner and wow like who knew that all of a sudden that vacant lot is now a whatever it is fill in the blank right so um I would encourage us to kind of shift the conversation and thinking about how um this decision can be um what um how we can memorialize what it is we're actually voting for rather than um just handshake deal here because who knows when this property will sell and then this um conversation that we're having about you know what we all think is going to happen you know is not memorialized anywhere and I know that that kind of um planning work is possible we've seen it with other properties and other other Enterprises where there is a list of how this has to be operated and your rights go away when x y and z um I I would just urge us to to ask for that um and if that means we need to hold off and see it coming back otherwise I'm I'm voting no because I'm I'm highly skeptical um but I am in full fa full agreement that yes we need these commercial fishermen here 100% and we should be doing more for that group um but my skepticism is high again nothing personal in any way we all see through a different Islands you I grew up here Sharon grew up Henry's been here Mark has been here I I mean I was born and raised here family came from Bahamas I'm very partial to the fishing because it's what my family is and I think you and Xavier both make your living off the ocean as well still I'm in full agreement what I'm saying is that that the mechanism by which we memorialize this commitment to our commercial fishermen has to be more clear than what I see here it has to be written into into the document and this is what it means so that so that tomorrow after we say yes let's go forward the guy the traps can still stay there and and if that's not written down I mean it might not happen can I ask a question because I I share your your concern about things but what gives me Comfort is that um firstly they've proferred or proposed to limit this to just two uses commercial fishing and dockage maybe if the dockage was limited to commercial fishing boats that could provide a little more clarity and then the term commercial fishing is also defined in the code about what what that means it does include sport diving if I'm not mistaken is that right so there's there's some things I I I would rather see a sport diver than I would you know a big yacht or something like that so and and those are things that it is so choked down and restricted and and that's what's going on there right now but in non-environmentally friendly way to me uh it seems like an oxymoron to or whatever the right word is or ironic or something to go from conservation to commercial fishing that actually improves the use of the property in an environmental context and it and it also we have an obligation to respect property rights as you know and then our car our community character which is a big part of why we're all here and we've heard testimony not only tonight but other times of how that is slowly eroded and you know as I told you my little story about being a kid coming down here commercial fishing was huge back then there and as Henry testified before our time there wasn't much else going on and Commercial Fishing is now taken a far back seat to tourism but I I believe someone driving down the highway who was a boy or a girl young like me and they see those traps are going to go wow what is that you that's so cool you and I and and this whole group thinks that but but I have noticed that the that the the very fine people who moved to the Florida key and by multi-million doll Condominiums are sometimes put off by the smell and the the the crust on the on the the traps I've just noticed that they can't they they they're I mean me I love it I mean you should see my yard but but why is there a problem with writing down writing this down memorializing and if there isn't a problem let's do it we're getting into a granular uh discussion about this is a general uh Flume change and there's some more zoning things that are more specific but it's getting to be like contract zoning after a while and that's prohibited but some of the you know the smell of the traps is is to me Heavenly it's perfume I love that a lot I know I'm in the keys when I smell that a lot of people don't and so we are gr we are speaking in a granular way this would never have happened if if we weren't sitting in 2024 wow look around us it is no longer like these fabulous memories that we all have some richer than others because you've been here longer but yet granular zoning I'm in because otherwise it's going to go away because the handshake deal like I mean again not love this guy who owns the property love it but maybe he'll sell one day I mean he's you know he's not he's he just got approval to put six I would imagine multi-million dollar houses right next door on the other sojourn property that to me kind of says in a silent way they're not going to trash that up at the expense of offending the houses that they're going to be developing on the other property that that gives me a lot of comfort that it's going to be a responsible operation I mean I get it I mean Elizabeth they've owned this property for 25 plus years I I don't I don't I I can't imagine that that they would actually resist a more thorough explanation of what they will allow and won't allow if they're all in because again the trashing up I mean a lot of people think anyway you know what the mullion dollar people if they see that and they don't like it maybe they shouldn't buy here okay all right hey Jennifer go ahead I just wanted to um clarify a couple things so um my understanding from the LPA meeting and from their recommendation is that the allow their recommendation was that the sub area be the permitted uses in the commercial fishing zoning District which include docking loading and unloading of commercial fishing vessels manufacturer repair and maintenance and storage of commercial fishing traps and Nets and the uses and structures accessory to commercial fishing such as bait fish tanks and also the docking facility um uh for the goods and services related to the commercial fishing industry and then just to clarify the definition of commercial fishing in our zoning means the catching Landing processing or packaging of seafood for commercial purposes including The Mooring and docking of boats and or storage of traps and fishing equipment and charter boat and Sport diving uses dockets associated with commercial fishing shall be distinguished from a marina by the nature of the docking and or moing facilities which are traditionally provided for commercial fishing vessels as a function of the commercial fishing operation and just to clear be clear this is a first reading and any specific additional language that the council would like to include if you want me to spell that out we can certainly do that for second reading okay thank you Jennifer for the clarification Ty yeah I I I I understand um the concern that things that you think you're doing can can go sideways or multiple years that could change but I don't know how much more granular you can get than what she just read because it's very specific and if you're not one of those things you cannot do it that is that was our our give our give to take away those concerns that it could be used in the future for something else now is it possible that somebody years from now comes in and asks for a comprehensive uh plan change you can't keep anybody from doing that you could do it I could nobody can take away that right to come to this Village and ask for something you don't have to give it but they have a right to ask and what we've done is we have belt and suspendered this to the to the greatest degree possible under the code and the comp plan to ensure that it stays commercial fishing and that the docks are used for commercial boats I can't do anything more than what we've done it's not humanly possible so I would I would ask that whatever discussion we're going to have let's up or down this thing and as I've said before put me out of my misery one way or the other what I like about this is that the existing uses have not been documented you know there's there's no a Perman those have been going on since before zoning and planning ever was required and so now they're coming to us and they're submitting and they're going to be regulated it's unusual for I mean Elizabeth that's what I'm saying I heard the condition it's a commercial fishing even the owner Mr Schuster said that I mean Owen has got I don't know how many boats there that this all these guys are making their living it's strict it's commercial F I'm in super all right so Mr Quick can we go ahead and uh there's no more comment Mr M for Mr Harris or yeah assuming there's no final uh argument from staff or applicant you guys can move forward okay and remember there's two separate items on it okay go ahead Henry do you have something you want to say yes what I'm concerned about is what you're saying it'll be prohibited and there's a list isn't it prohibited right now if if you do nothing do nothing live what you got why do you have to change the zoning to prohibit something that it's already not existent there right now because I believe what what Mark just said it's a dock you have to put it the shoreline even I understand that have I looked like I finished no no okay thank you you're welcome I understand usage for the dockage I have no problem with that but I'm looking always looking for the downside what is the downside if we do nothing with the exception of the dockage right as if we can't make as if we haven't made enough variances you can't just give them a variance for a dock in a conservation Zone we can make up anything I'm I know I know that's my but I mean yeah I hear you but really I know I hear you these guys are going to get get up tomorrow and do the same thing that they did today nobody's going to go down there and build something that's already prohibited in a sense of the word why do we have to have language to support prohibiting something that doesn't exist and if you just continue on with it right now we're I you can tell me the downside go ahead all right so good question got an answer we cannot ask for a variance for a dock because that would be expanding a legal non-conforming use which is verboten in the code so I can't even ask for it the only way I can get there is to go back to commercial fishing and then eliminate all the uses other than commercial fishing which is what the LPA did in two different meetings so I can't do that Henry I can't ask for a variance for the docs because they wouldn't accept my application and rightfully so and also you talk about setting a bad precedent let's start giving variances out for conservation property whether that should be conservation or not that would start a horrible Trend that people will probably on in TV Land perking up going May what a variance for something in conservation that's not where we want to go I know you don't want to go there from all the comments I've heard from you over the years statement that I've never used you can't balance the environment never never used it before but I've carried it around with me it can't balance the environment yep I think everybody agrees I I have another oh sorry I just wanted to add one thing if we were to get a major hurricane and they were to lose everything and it would be destroyed or damaged in a fire or something they would not be able to rebuild anything or continue the use under our code once you lose 50% of a substantial loss you would not be able to rebuild a non-conforming use so I think that's part of their ask as well okay I would like to ask just one question of those people are here is anybody here right now our decision involves them is anybody here from that area making a living from that area the gentleman who spoke yeah that Owen was here is that his name there is okay I yes I I appreciate your comments but you're one how many people are involved you say ask how many people are involved in that area making a living does anybody what Frankie knows come on up young man tell us your name and what you do I'm the owner of a Ham seafood I'm one of the uh the ones that we're going to hear a little later I also buy and sell uh lobster for many years I've been a commercial fisherman since 20 8 and I own the seafood market that's here in the corner ham Seafood Express so yes definitely I would love to keep that as a commercial fishing which is what originally was I pick up Lobster over the years I know Owen you know he buys Lobster we all buy Lobster um and also we fish I'm also a commercial fisherman now as well I bought a lobster boat and we also fish Lobster here out of Taver so yeah definitely I uh I think it should be kept as a commercial fishing can can I just ask I'm not sure if the gentleman since he didn't speak before was sworn in before uh no I wasn't but I can be we this is quasi judicial so we need to swear them in um in the matter in which you're about to give testimony do you swear to tell the truth and hold truth and nothing but the truth I do the witness has been sworn thank you for your comment yes just got married okay thank you Henry Frankie come on up man come on up Frank I just want to say something while he's coming up Henry if you go down to that property in about a month month you're going to see them building traps repairing traps getting ready for the season they can drop traps on if I remember right it's August 1st is the first day of putting them out so there's going to be a whole lot of people working down there in about well they may be there right now I it's a big deal actually I was there two days ago we're running out of room we need more room Lobster walk is only two lots there we need more room okay thank you Frank yeah you know this um conversation has to do with the I mean obviously it has a big um has a big um it has to do with this rezoning problem and I know we have asked to look at um the we've asked the planning department to bring back the properties that we might expect to ask for this kind of zoning change have we seen that yet um was supposed I was going to be working with that on Council and we just haven't had a moment to get together on that because because this this goes into um we you know um when is a good time to look at the overall ramifications of this zoning problem because if every I mean I don't I have no idea what properties are are have been res I'm saying you know what we're doing is taking we're saying yeah if you you're zoned conservation but we're we're going to take it back to what it was talking about everybody who's reone like yes yes this this is I don't think they're ever going to do anything about it well I I think we got we may have a solution to that coming up because we either put out for bid or we're about to put out for bid um a to to have a consulting company help us with our comp plan redo and our code redo and that me seems to me to be all encompassing when we to be ID yeah we can throw it all into that conversation is there is there a reason we're we're just part and again this is a little bit of a a segue but we are we're responding to this rezoning the zoning problem just peace meal I mean I don't know maybe there are 15 properties that were conservation and or that are now cons here you know what you guys I don't mean to frustrate you but we don't sit around tell I own a property that was Suburban commercial and that Village changed it I okay since zoning came into existence it was Suburban commercial well Elizabeth I think what you're asking for is that I know you hate peace mealing but for people like me and sojan what am I going to wait five more years on top of all the years I was rezoned and if it has to be peace meal to me peace meal because it's not fair to us as the taxpayers I pay commercial taxes so on a building that I I understand but when we get the list we the list but right now I think peac mealing I I I I have some sympathy for what you're saying about the peac meal thing cuz you know at some point we have to pull the gate down and say stop we got to take a break let's look at it all but this is a little different this is different affordable housing conservation and working waterfronts and Commercial fisherman those things they they can't wait I I I don't think so other things you know there's a little slack there but these guys need protection and they need it right now we we're in hurricane season and they've been waiting a long time that Shoreline is going to continue to erode that's an environmental issue ongoing we can fix this it's probably going to wind up the same if I can predict the future you know I know everything right so but I reasonably speaking I think that this is likely to to come out the same way once we go through the process because right next door is a big commercial fishing operation so I I don't I don't see this as you know getting off into the weeds too far so do I hear a motion from Council on this I'll make a motion I'll make a motion we approve this as a subdistrict that limits the property to the uses of commercial fishing and dockage and as Jennifer read off earlier um I don't know if dockage includes uh is that a seaw wall or is that wooden docks T do style is that not defined not defined can we say TS I docks the way way the LPA got that language was under the um minor conditional use was it defined there was a docking facility so if we're going to be consistent with limiting it to what's in the um permitted uses as well as the language of docking facility in the code it would be probably best to call it a docking facility um and then that could be pulled from planning or I mean if you want to get more specific but I I would at least use the term docking facility I don't want to see the mangroves taken out and and that Shoreline can be restored and repaired without hardened seaw wall so how do I what fits that category sounds a little granular but yes it is well I'm trying down with that I'm going your way going your way I think that we can with that guidance I think we can work on the language between first and second reading I mean there's D Jennifer just pointed out to me that you know there's D regulations as well but I think with that guidance we don't necess have to come up with the specific language but we can bring back get time to work yeah yeah okay so is is was my motion clear enough to for you for that this was on Tab H which is the FL the uh Flume change um and it was as I understood it was a motion to approve but with the amendment to create uh a uh commercial fishing special area uh limited to the uses in the commercial fishing zoning District as well as docking facility with the additional um uh instructions uh for to bring back language on uh the docking issues and the mangrove other environmental issues yes good Mark all right do I hear a second I'll second it discussion one more thing I want to say is okay yes I do so um before they move on here how do you feel about giving direction to our staff to um without the full analysis of the zoning issue put out some sort of easy blanket statement that could be corroborated with our legal team to make sure it's legal to talk to say like you know something to the effect of um if to to give people the fair warning that your property's been rezoned it's going to stay that way because because again we're going to it's going to take a year to do this comp plan and in the meantime these kinds of rezoning issues are very um incendiary and and and they they don't have to be and the the the issue is we were never alerted so why don't we do another alert well is there Mr Mr Quick can we go ahead since we have a motion in a second and call the role we have a motion and we have a second and then address that question afterwards yes yeah that's fine okay all right Marne would you call the role please that's member Mark Greg yes vice mayor Sharon Mahoney yes council member Elizabeth Jolan yes I said yes sorry council member Henry Rosenthal I want to say no because we have a question that will be addressed after the voting and I don't understand that but I'll say just to simplify the the issue but okay I don't understand you're saying that you're going to answer the question of this lady after we vote it's off topic it's off yeah yeah yeah off topic on topic okay Marne go ahead please okay and mayor buddy Pender yes okay that motion passes 5 to zero okay it's completely on topic this has to do with rezoning so can we just that was a question I had and I appreciate your you're you're allowing us to further it now so the question is can we ask for some sort of um resolution to this ongoing problem that doesn't have to be Herculean it's a it could be fairly simple what what what is the Herculean problem or well what we just what we seem to be going on is that we're creating this comprehensive list of everyone who's been rezoned and that's going to take a very long time because we're so busy um and and I'm not sure if it has to be that difficult where if this is a this is this could be I mean again you know here we are I'm I'm I'm a planner and a lawyer so this could be some sort of notice to our community that says you need to go do your research if you this happened this rezoning issue happened and how many years ago research it you've got this window to come and and rectify that with the appeal to the community that's super easy yeah when we did this 20 years or 24 years ago 25 years ago there were multiple notices in the newspaper we had charettes we had workshops there were I mean I know a lot of people say they didn't pay attention but we didn't have the internet well we had it but we didn't Facebook and all that stuff it wasn't like it is now the communication level wasn't as high as it is now now it's hard to get away from it and you got your phone and we didn't have these kind of phones back then so I I find it hard to believe unless you live in a cave and you're deaf dumb and blind you're not going to hear about this when when it comes up when we do this in a year or over the next year it's going to be everywhere and you know we send out newsletters we send out uh emails to people and we can even send Property Owners a notice in the mail if which is they CLA they didn't get last time which I don't think legally they we had to send it out I think once it's over 10 acres of of land that's concerned then you don't have to do it that way it was in the newspapers I mean there were many many many meetings and I hated it and I'm telling you that's what happened we're making decisions based on someone a bunch of people saying I never knew this happened so how do we resolve that because it's problematic from a planning and legal Point think can you speak on that to because redoing our comp plan and the code and everything all this stuff if correct me if I'm wrong you or John or Jennifer but all this stuff is going to you know come up when we when we're redoing all this what Mark talked about the consultants and everything we're going to cover every bit of this I'll say that I think a facilitated conversation around what to do and how to handle it such as might occur through the comp plan process with professional planning firm an extensive amount of public Outreach to get everyone to the table a lot of communication surrounding that activity would be preferred to sending out a a letter um ahead of that process without a really good uh way to handle the community response that we get in exchange so I think uh that design and of itself would take time so we're we're probably best advised uh doing this in a more organized and facilitated Manner and I'll let either attorney quick or Jennifer speak to how that might best dovetail in the comp plan process but I think an organized approach would be much better than U firing that over the bow and letting people start contacting us to uh seek some type of relief that we haven't defined and I want to interject one thing as an example it was either in 2018 or 2019 uh councilman Ken Davis promoted sending out a letter to all of the vacant land owners that we had a limited number of bass units left if you were a vacant landowner and you wanted to build on it you better get in here and get an application filed and we sent those letters out I believe they were certified mail I got one I still have it and so that's an example of how we can do Outreach the you know oldfashioned way old school with just a letter and it would be hard for someone to deny that they didn't receive it after that but we can add on top of that the internet and newspaper and TV and satellite and smoke signals whatever you want to do I'm not concerned about our ability to communicate ideas to the community what I'm concerned about is that between today and the time when this comp plan thing happens it's quite quite a a distance there's there's a long period of time and we're going to be continued to we will continue to be asked to make decisions just spot decisions on on this issue I it I'm having trouble thinking that I'm having people well rather than have a hard fast rule what we've kind of gone along with here is that we take them on a case-by casee basis this is something that I think has an urgency to it I I'm I might be the Lone Ranger there but Mark you're not we need this these people have owned this property for over 25 years they had to sue the village and went through a lawsuit to get this all done and you know what we can talk about this at another meeting it's already 7:00 and we're sitting here just going on and on and this is a zoning issue that we're talking about we can address our staff to do this Elizabeth and you know what I'm ready to I'm ready to move on to the next tab just to reminder the next tab is the zoning issue on the sojourn matter that the last one was a feature land use map also to follow up on what Mr Cole said and and I think to piggyback a little bit on what Councilman Greg said and I'll be very brief the the code has minimum notice requirements uh when you're going through a rezoning process whether it's site specific or Village Wide it does doesn't mean we couldn't do more and I think that's what I'm hearing from councilwoman jolen is that she's asking that that we we advise them do more than just the minimum and certainly whatever the will of the council is uh you know we would need to at least do the minimum but it doesn't mean we can't do more but Mr Quick why can't we do this before we have all these people coming before us we can do this we can we can schedule it at our next council meeting in July to talk about this when we're not these people have been dealing with this and dealing with this and now we're going to change just like in the bass we we we're we we say we're going to move the goalpost on them or we we didn't say we did move the gold poost on them and the same rules and procedures apply when the people came and be pass these people have property rights and you know um they're here they're spending time and money to come here and and we're just you know we're we want to change the rules or do this or that it it's not I don't I don't think that's uh proper yeah I mean yes you can these when an application comes in it needs to be considered in accordance with the code which includes bringing it before the council for decision um uh we cannot have a de facto moratorium without having actually gone through an an actual moratorium process um but the um uh so so we don't we don't have staff has no way of knowing how many applications are going to come in between now and whenever the comp plan is finished we also don't know when the comp plan is going to be finished because we like we said the RFP either is going out or just went out I'm not sure off the top of my head but um we don't know when that's going to be completed either so yes they they have as Mr Harris stated they have the right to come in and apply and if they apply you know it's incumbent upon staff to process it and bring it Forward uh before the council for determination but but you're not saying that this isn't I'm not hearing you say this isn't a problem it's a problem for planning it's a problem for how we move forward in our community yeah our comp plan is old and needs to be updated and this is pretty this is pretty straightforward problem that I think we could fix prior to the comp plant but we can you know what I'll put it on the agenda for next month and we'll discuss it in and in the meantime let's think about it I agree I think that's a good idea okay so with that being said let's move on to I Mr Quick yeah yes so um is the is the um uh the companion uh zoning ordinance uh related to the application this was a change from uh zoning conservation to commercial fishing I had read the um the title before but I can read it again if you all would like uh do you think I don't think it's necessary okay uh does Mr Harris want to or no Jennifer do you need to uh we had taken this one together oh you did it okay so Mr Harris you want to come up on I yeah we I think I talked enough on the last one I would just uh ask that the comments that I made for The Flume be incorporated into the record for purposes of the resoning application thank you okay all right do we need to give uh public comment we had opened it up for both um and so the public comment for for each would be applicable to both H and I okay so do I hear a motion then move for approval I'll second it Marney uh we have a motion second would you call the role please council member Mark G yes vice mayor Sharon Mahoney yes council member Elizabeth Jolan yes council member Henry Rosenthal yes and mayor buddy Pender yes motion passes 5 to zero all right thank you Council that we moved on all right let's go back here so Mr Quick you might have to help me here a little bit yep we're on mayor council Communications and the first item under that is the uh development development review that was Elizabeth Tuesday yes so there were some items that I attached in Tuesday's meeting um about the way the county Works um they have a development Review Committee so all department heads come forward and and weigh in on planning decisions and um they do actually they do that in a public meeting which is not something I'm suggesting but it seems to me that that process um is is um is an effort to to um ensure or to provide um support for the planning department um and the decisions that are coming out of the department um it helps the community understand the issues better and I'm uh Curious whether we have an interest in creating some sort of um mechanism where we see the the input from our our um professional department heads so what we see an e economic or excuse me a Environmental impact for example um and and that might be noted in our in our documents um and Etc with our other department heads I have a question if this is outside the village but does the county do do we know if the county still has the their DRC do they still do that yeah okay I'm not suggesting this be a public meeting because I I don't think that is really necessary but um apparently as I understand it from talking to Rob and Jennifer that some or at least Rob um we do this apparently this happens our our the decision the the the things that come before us go to our department heads but um we don't see that um and and I would like I mean I'm looking for more information I had a lot of questions for example about the dolphin issue um I would have liked to see a report from our uh um environmental um from Miss Pete fza on that I didn't see it in our in our um in the uh information we were given so just a thought if that do you think if that would help if it would help support our planning department and um we had a DRC and we got rid of it and you know I think there's pros and cons to this that we should talk about more I think the big con was that it took a long time and it and it duplicated a lot of things I I think the the pro of it was that it provided um a longer period of review and more scrutiny and I I would say if I would be sitting on the council at that time which the next time if it comes up I won't be thankfully but um it it takes a lot of the cushion it provides a cushion to the council where it gets reviewed at a lower level and a less formal level and a non-binding level and there's recommendations made kind of like the but a lot more intense and a lot more detailed a lot more specific so I see the benefit to that um there and there may be some cases where we could wave it if it's if it to avoid a delay that doesn't seem to be you know required so I'm happy to talk about it I I think there's Merit to your idea I um as you may recall I mean i' I've heard Mr Horton and Sue Miller get up and demand a a development viiew committee which is interesting because considering the the um the occasional polarized way our community functions it might be another step in a good direction of I I just make observations and I seem to it's my observation that the polarization increased after the DRC was eliminated how interesting just a personal observation right or wrong Henry you like to say something no I have another issue one through okay we through okay Sharon can I speak oh yeah yeah go ahead I I think it should be noted that Mr Horton was shaking his head no when you made that observation anyway I just thought I would throw it out there um at the last meeting I made a motion to accept a federal contract to redo the wall out here R yes um I received several phone calls in relation to that contract being Federal uh truthfully I wasn't aware of at that time I made a motion to accept it apparently there was two problems one was we put it out for Bid And if it's Federal I think we're under the guidelines to accept the correct bid bid and not accept the bid in relation to that company being local I don't believe that's permissible I will ask the attorney to elaborate on what I just said hopefully you're going to support me and I just wanted to bring it out to the public eye if necessary for us to resend that vote on that contract I will make a motion to do that but you're going to have to tell me that it's necessary so John let me just say Henry he did say the other night when vice mayor brought up about local okay that we can't local was not allowed local was not considered I understand that and I made a motion that he refin it to protect us from any federal suit and I I understand that but since I had these calls that and we can make a motion I mean I'm movement to say that we did correct it with your thank you because you corrected me and U made the language more permissible and state kept us out of trouble so to speak but uh yeah I just I so you're correct um under the federal guidelines there is no local preference um that is given in that uh uh in that uh uh procurement item so that was not something it it was mentioned it was advised that that's not something that could be considered uh the council then discussed the various bases upon which um uh it felt that the number two ranked uh proposer was was better as I recall part of that was based upon um uh experience uh experience within within the county within the keys a superior proposal Superior uh belief in a superior company and then their unique understanding of the nature of Isa marata I I don't remember exactly what it was worded but as I remember on Tuesday I synthesized basically the discussion you all were having uh to ensure that we the the motion included uh everything that that the all of the bases upon which you were you were um approving uh so it the the motion did not was not based upon a local preference uh bump no I understand that and you kept me out of trouble and everybody else at the same time and I appreciate that one short question were we under any kind of an obligation to accept the higher bid the no it was not a purely uh it was not a pure price uh decision and in fact if it was there was there was an actually a lower bidder that was ranked lower so um no it was not purely based on lowest bid okay I'll say thank you I brought it to the attention so the public understands what we did and I'll personally say thank you yeah having redone my motion okay yeah and John thank you I got some phone calls as well and you know uh and I I told the the person a couple of the people comment it was a - vote all right and the The Firm that was picked had did I called the county they did $ 35 to $40 million worth of work for the county after Hurricane Irma with with no complaints they also have done today over 25 million more in canals for the county all right uh and this this came straight from Monroe County and I know that that vice mayor Mahoney when when they were looking at the canal here down by the Lutheran Church over there that she went to ke Argo and actually went and surveyed a bunch of the canals that they had did and Sh and I'll let you I mean you you talk to the homeowners and I've never heard a single complaint against them and I did see all the canals that they did and no one had anything negative and to me okay I I'm the one who said local so shame on me Henry it was me who said it but that's really was a part of my thinking but the main part is the fact that they've been in this community and done so much work and if there was complaints about them then I would have issues but they've done phenomenal work here so that's why I suggested we take them yeah the experience is what I feel that they they I received some similar comments and phone calls and I believe that the concern from as I interpreted them that was that it was a question of the Integrity of the council in making a decision based on local favoritism rather than on like an economic decision because we did take the second L instead of the first one and that it was part of the so-called Bubba system and and I I I I acknowledge that that is people see that and think that but I think we did an okay job and maybe we should have done a little bit more discussion about it but I in particular remember saying I was impressed with the number two company because they did a big job for us and we got zero complaints and that was a controversial difficult uh we I think we vote we it came to us to vote on it three times and we finally got it on the third strike and so and and some of the prop the opponents of that are now satis at least I haven't heard from them I guess I will when I get home but that to me was the strength of their bid was their experience with us and the the very positive outcome that we had I don't care if they come from Mars they did a really good job and and so that to me was how and why we selected them even though we spent more of the taxpayers money uh doing that and in the long run you know cheap ain't good and good ain't cheap and so maybe we pay a little bit more but the the quality of the work is is a factor that we really need to take into consideration and the fact that this structure that they're repairing behind us here this Breakwater protects the most valuable physical asset that the village has so I I look at those factors and I dismiss the claim that we we were doing some favor for a local or something like that that's not it's great that they're local but they prove themselves we have proof you know from experience and that's what carried the day for me so I wanted to say that thank you thank you Mark Henry go ahead you said did you want to say something else I want to close it out we spent $440,000 more thank you all right thanks Henry okay are we ready to move on we actually you know what I know Henry didn't intentionally kind of stop the conversation that we were having about the development Review Committee but I don't think we got any kind of consensus there we didn't we we did we did not oh we did not get any consensus there um Mr Cole um I just wanted to add that when we had that conversation about the development Review Committee it was highlighted that on many or at least certain uh planning applications there is what amounts to a development Review Committee with various department heads who are given the opportunity to weigh in and consider um their professional perspectives in the context of that application uh there's typically a memorandum that gets prepared but in the past it has not been Advanced to council so in those instances where that team is meeting discussing and providing input into uh a particular planning decision uh we that is uh Jennifer and I had said that we can begin putting that memorandum in the packet so at least people know uh what was said what was captured and the fact that those meetings do occur um Jennifer I was just mentioning that you do a a development review team already with department heads and that when that memorandum is prepared historically it hasn't been coming forward but it's possible that we could begin including that so at least those viewpoints and perspectives are documented Council and the public uh become aware that uh we we do a similar process to what the county does but it's not uh the same exact format okay I I personally don't think that we we have the LPA we have our staff I don't another committee on top of that that's a three it's like three layers I I don't think that we need it when we have our staff and we have LPA well would you be willing I I like the the this what Rob just Mr Cole just um suggested is that um that as that that that sort of a a middle of the road solution is to include the memorandum that apparently is is this is happening or maybe it's already prepared we just don't see it so I personally like that idea I would like to see I like that idea yes are we will are we can we ask to be included that would be great we're all good Henry are you good with that for sure okay so you got a 100% consensus and you know I want to thank you for taking the time to explore some of these alternative ideas I know everybody has a lot of interesting ideas that we can bring to the table and this is um the place to do it and I appreciate the the additional five minutes that it took to have that conversation thank you so much all right so do we want to are we going Sharon to you are we going to uh oh no yeah we're going to you next because the the after is going to go to Village attorney and Village man um Julian and the committee lay on thing um the committee lays on is pretty simple I would like to ask Councilman Greg if he would let me do the land acquisition switch with me sure okay simple okay is that okay absolutely and if you don't want to keep Nearshore water go to that I'll I'll take two it's up to you I I don't want to do near water okay so I'll take two okay all right okay so we make sure Marne that you you need to clarify with vice mayor Mahoney uh you make sure we have it down right okay all right okay um Julian Julian Garcia April after our council meeting one of our own police officers was severely injured and um has had multiple surgeries been in rehab and June 23rd I just want to make sure everybody knows June 23rd at The Islander Resort from noon to 6 o'clock there is going to be a very large fundraiser for Julian with 100% of the proceeds going to him for his needs that he's going to have in the future um it has been my great pleasure to see how this community has come together um our very own Judy Hall out there uh is organized thank she took it for me which is good the anti car show that's going to be on the beach and I hear it's uh gotten a lot of car so we have that how something don't know okay okay it's a lot though right and do we try to add a NASCAR actually NASCAR had well I haven't talked to him yet so I will I will gladly have that conversation our own uh fire department and our chief AEL along with Don and Carla are going to do a barbecue on the beach um I know van you're not a fan of my jail that I'm building but we're going to have a jail where you can have somebody arrested for $20 and if you don't want to sit in jail for 20 minutes you can bail out for 30 and that'll go to Julian there's bounce houses SP painting Hair Braiding um auctions pasta is going to be doing a a painting that will be auctioned off um Raffles uh food trucks snow cones it's going to be a very music all day long so it's a very very great event I'm very proud to be part of I'm very proud of all my friends who have stepped Ste up to the plate mayor Pender is going to be in my dunk tank I love that and Henry is going to help with the raffle so I appreciate this community greatly if anyone has anything they want to donate please give me a call and if you want to volunteer I have a few more slots so just let me know and again just putting it out there that this is what the Florida Keys has always been to me it's been close family friends and working together so I hope I see everybody at The Islander and uh thank you everyone in this community who has stepped forward to help me thank you and I I want to say Mr Cole thank you because I heard you donated he did very nice stuff very nice bottle of bourbon and the makings for an oldfashioned I believe and I swear I haven't opened the bottle yet anyways okay all right all right so I think that's all we had under uh after action report that we're doing that under V attorney Village manager Communications that's right okay so we can move on to that unless anybody else has anything to say so Mr Quick and Mr Cole um you're up and so that after action or Jennifer Jennifer address Jennifer has that yes all righty Frank do you want to put my slides up thanks good evening Council um I was asked to um put together a little presentation on the multitude of planning items that are on the after action report and possibly the um status and some timelines and some different things for discussion this evening um so hopefully this is informative um and answer some questions but I'm also here to um work at your will so if there's anything you'd like changed or added or subtracted I'm I'm happy to work with you on that as well so um the first um slide up is um something I just wanted to put up that it's you know I wanted to start the discussion to show that how all of the items on the report and that we've been discussing over the last several months you know interact with our comprehensive plan you know it's it's very easy to see how everything in here sort of intertwines um I've identified where the policy in the comprehensive plan is that's what those policy numbers are after certain things I'll go through each one of them individually but just as an overall discussion Point um and then of course the ldrs um separately of course are you know bred from the comprehensive plan so that's um and then affordable housing is um all of chapter three basically of the comprehensive plan so that is you know basically every decision that we make comes from our comprehensive plan and is the comprehensive plan is the basis for all of what we do in my department and a lot of Isa marada so I just want everybody to understand that um we have issued our P to update the comprehensive plan it is out on the streets currently um it is due back in on July 11th um and then we will have an evaluation Committee of I think we've uh decided three to five people I'm not sure exactly the number yet and then um hope to bring that back to you um in your we're going to shoot for the August meeting but the timing might be when the agenda deadline is due it might be a little tight so it might push to September uh but I'll show you that in one of my other future slides but staying here for a second I'm just going to go around the circle starting at maybe uh where it says b pass there on the the 2:00 I guess you would say so you know we've had a lot of discussion about bass and what that is and for those who don't understand that's our uh building permit allocation system um currently we have a temporary moratorium we're asking this evening for you to extend that for an additional 6 months um that's the second reading this even evening um we've also have an ongoing discussion about additional allocations in with the county uh the county is really leading that discussion for the entire County we are um doing a simultaneous um process through for Isa marada that's going to kick off July 1st and I'll get to that in the next slide but those are the the bass items that we are looking at at the moment um under TD RS which is the next Circle down um there's there's three you know major things that we've heard from the council over the last few months that they want us to continue to look at for tdrs that includes um the unification of lots um to create create wet tdrs from dry Lots uh multifam um tdrs that can be transferred to single family lots and um multiple habitats on one lot and transferring into multiple habitats we currently have working on a draft of the TDR ordinance um we've been using our consultant Rebecca Jaton for that exercise that is um in process at the moment staff is reviewing her draft and hope to have something back to council for review um after I'm back from vacation in mid July then uh if you go down we have administrative relief um which is one that we've been talking about more recently um we have 23 available administrative relief permits those are the permits that people who have been awarded allocations don't pick up after a certain period of time they go back into the administrative relief pool so we have 23 of those um right now um we have uh bringing back forward a proposed moratorium for administrative relief based on Council direction from last month's meeting that went to the LPA on Monday night so we're bringing that back in July on your July 11th meeting for first reading um was understood at the last council meeting as well that you're looking for a comprehensive plan to deal with administrative relief in a in a larger bigger picture way so that's uh one of the things we'll be working on as well the next item is land acquisition we had a lot of discussion about this on Tuesday night um the land acquisition committee as you know created a parcel list uh with recommendations uh for Parcels for purchase and I just I got that information the resolution was adopted in February of 2023 it was reso number 23- 02-11 um and that was the parcel list that they created for land acquisition um and so we're going to probably take a bigger look at that at some point along with them um noting the council's concern about uh acquiring properties and you know doing those kinds of things so uh I just wanted to include that on the list as well we jump up to um the ldrs the three major things that we've been hearing about from the council and the ldrs are the environment standards as you're my remember Daniel parach our biologist and Senior environmental planner came to your uh April 11th meeting I believe it was and did a presentation on his review of the County's environmental standards versus The Village's environmental standards um at that time I thought that was an interesting presentation and the council wanted some more recommendations and um review from Daniel on that um we believe that that is a best uh exercise done as part of the comprehensive plan so that has been sort of pushed to the back burner for the moment uh if the council would prefer us to bring that back closer we can certainly have that discussion uh there was also uh back in the beginning of the year some discussion about the LPA and whether or not you know we wanted to keep a separate LPA or have the council be the LPA um that sort of took a back burner in our office but um it's still on the list and if the council wants us to make that more of a priority were certainly happen to do that but again that would be you know as part of the bigger comprehensive plan look and then the TDR changes which we've already talked about and then the big one that everybody likes to talk about more recently is affordable housing um as everybody knows we've received the 300 early out evacuation allocations um and we do understand that there's a plan that is needed for those the council had reserved um I believe it was 165 for the for The Village's use um so we'll be looking at that and what we're going to be doing with those 165 um there has also been discussion in the office about doing a presentation for the Council on the live local act and what that means for the village and how the live local act will affect the Village um there's also been um conversations particularly with Mr Greg about adus and do we want those in the village how does that look like what would we do that we had a workshop scheduled for early June that got postponed we'll be uh looking to either do that Workshop or maybe some other Outreach uh regarding that and finally um last fall we did the list of Village own properties that would be uh suitable for affordable housing that is currently on the website and I believe um two of those properties Mr Cole spoke about on Tuesday night um and the the he may be doing a public Workshop engagement about that process as well so that's where we're are um on just general things um regarding uh all the stuff that we've been talking about I don't know if anybody has specific questions about this slide I'm happy to go to my next two slides which are more a timeline basis but I'm happy to stay here for a while and just talk about the stuff in general I have one question sure well at least one so this is really kind of directed to the council and the staff um obviously I'm a proponent of the accessory dwelling units we had a workshop teed up and ready to go uh it was cancelled because of concerns of the council so I'm asking are your what what do we need to do as a prerequisite in order to continue and have that Workshop rescheduled do you Is there further information you might need to um okay so you think we don't have time for it or you just the mic I said I would like to see us complete some other things before we keep adding more and more things so if we could take a few things off that we've been working on then add that but we just keep CH halfway jumping into the water it's just something that's been up for three years but I understand any that's my feeling everybody else can say yeah I'm just I'm trying I mean there I didn't get a clear answer when I asked the manager why and it's no fault of his of why the the the workshop was cancel because we were building up to it we all agreed we were going to have it it was announced it was planned it was scheduled it was advertised and then it was killed so I'm just trying to find out why and if if you don't want to have it I'm not trying to be provocative if you don't want to deal with them you don't like them there's three of you just say so now we'll draw a red line and x and take it off and it's done back burner for a while until we take care of some other stuff well I I understand that the back burner for me ends in November and this is something I've been trying to get going and U I can I'm sure you you know you have things you'd like to do too I I think would I don't see any reason we can't I mean everybody's waiting for things this has been waiting for at least three years a year before you came on the council so I I don't understand why it got killed we were ready to go we paid for the advertising you've seen the affordable or accessory dwelling unit handbook that's provided by the Florida housing commission I don't know what else we need it's people need them we we have a a mandate from the state to provide affordable housing we're kind of in a crisis a lot of people want to live here that work here that to me is not a back burner item yeah can I make a comment on that um so I think one of the this I don't mean I don't know what is on the next two slides but um but I think what might help move that forward is to get a sense of where the priorities are for the department and you know where do these fit into where the priorities and and I I know well I have no idea what the priorities are like I don't the work is done they have the pr presentation ready to go if you I mean in the within the scheme of the other major outstanding things that we have to work on and and I don't I know we have a new I know this is actually this this I know I often ask for to see a bigger picture we have a new manager now um and maybe maybe it's coming up on the next slides that we we're putting some of these important discussions into a time frame so that we see not only we're not just focusing on adus we're we're discussing these other items as well I'm happy to have the conversation Let's Do It um but let's also see it within a time frame of of what else is happening in your world sure if you want I can go through the next two time slides are actually Tim taes or timelines um that we can go through and then we can have a larger just let me say one thing Mark I AARP magazine monthly magazine did a whole they cover story was on adus in America and the need the great need and and I actually gave it I don't know who with whether there was one of the intern managers sent it to all of us the whole article the link to that whole article explaining how a lot of the older people that are selling their homes and moving in with their family and they're that's exactly what it was that you know adus there is a huge need for it you know our comp plan identified uh a a deficit of over a thousand affordable dwelling units and that was in 2004 20 years ago we've issued what 3 or 400 building permits since then and Commercial permits I mean it's it's a huge problem people don't have a place to live the places they can rent are unaffordable I I don't know why that would be considered in any way a back burner it should be front and center and a and a and a you know bonfire okay all right Jennifer okay so this next slide um you've seen it before as like sort of a written timeline but we wanted to dress it up a little bit and put some dates to it this is the rogo SLB Pass road map that we're going to use to go concurrently with the Cy's uh discussions um so you see that um tonight is the June 11th update to council um and then we are preparing um a first survey to go out launch July 11th um it'll go out on Survey Monkey um and then it'll be a the first one will be a demographic survey with some demographic information and some how do you get your information information like the counties did and then um we will start compiling data from that point and then on July 23rd we're expecting to hold our first engagement workshop with um the public on this important topic of bass and general generally do we want to see more Bass allocations um we expect then to have a second survey launched um around August 1st uh which would be more in-depth questions about uh allocations what type of allocations how many what would they be used for those kinds of things uh the questions for that survey have not been fleshed out yet so I can't get too specific um all along you'll see we're compiling data and putting the data together uh we would propose to have a second Workshop um around August 4 14th um for additional Community input and then we would be compiling the data and Performing the analysis between middle of August and uh your September well their September 10th meeting we would do an update to see where we're at with you uh and present a draft report to you at that time and then between the September 10th and August October I'm sorry 8th meeting uh we would formalize that draft report into a final report which we would then present to you in October uh which we would hope that you would uh either vote on recommendations to the board of County Commissioners and send a final report to them as they need to make their decision in December uh to send back to Tallahassee so that's the uh rogo B Pass road map um and then Frank if you just go to my next um this one's going to be that the next one's the yeah he's going to no he's going to it's a different spreadsheet he's going to pull up I'm sorry sorry um he's going to pull it up in one second so um I put I did a Gant chart um that shows um all these projects and some timelines uh obviously it's a little bit off the page um because you know these things aren't going to all happen within the next month and so uh just uh bear with me as I walk Frank through the uh scrolling and the going up and down so thanks so uh the first you'll see in purple is the uh rogo be pass discussion which we just talked about and that timeline um and then Frank if you just uh you can go down all the way through the purple um because we just kind of talked about that uh then I have the comp plan update that timeline was a little bit harder to put on a a chart just because you know we've issued the the RFP we're expecting to evaluate and get your approval um I put the September date in there just to be safe uh obviously if we can do it sooner we will uh but we expect from my experience a comp plan update of that magnitude takes about a year to complete so I would expect that that would be a year process um if we can do it sooner that would be great and I would be happy to do that but if if we have to do the year I would rather do it right um and take the longer time than than rush it and not so that is um that um Frank if you can go down to the green section oh the green over there I'm sorry is um the affordable housing plan I put that as sort of our next Target item to look at for a couple different reasons is we have the allocations available to issue um and also I put administrative relief second because we are hopefully preparing a moratorium so that gives us a little bit of breathing room on that so that's why I put affordable housing next so as you can see there I Look to begin that process um in August um and there are some public Workshop a public Workshop some data compilation um and updates to council and then your final report to on that would come to the council in December um I should mention that all these things also take uh direction from the rogo uh discussion so every all the information we get from the rogo Workshops the rogo surveys will feed these other pieces as well um and then when you go down to the yellow we have the administrative relief uh again we're hoping to do a moratorium with an estimated end date on that moratorium for 6 months being sometime in March um if if all goes according to plan or not according to plan but according to uh what we're proposing and then um we would utilize info from the bass discussions um beginning in August and September possibly have a workshop in October uh compile some data do an update to Council in November and then our report to you on administrative relief would happen sometime in January um and then finally um I put the transfer of development rights down there this is already underway as I mentioned um and I look I'm looking to have this to the LPA in September um with the council reading um in October first reading in October uh second reading in November uh maybe uh pushing the council first reading to November and second reading to December that hasn't fully been fleshed out yet and um I would probably get a draft of the TDR ordinance to the council prior to LPA discussion though since a lot of the direction for that came to you um so those are sort of my projected timelines and in discussion with my staff uh we believe that this is achievable and workable obviously utilizing some consultant help and um some of the work that we already have ongoing um is getting ready to finish up so this would be actually yeah thanks Frank so he's showing you sort of some of the overlapping timelines with the different colors and things like that um I'm happy to have any more conversations if there's uh priorities that you think I've Mis prioritized happy to have those conversations but in my my view that's where I think we need to be and where we should be going C can I ask or say first thing that and and I've been going to planning meetings for uh close to 40 years that's the best planning presentation I've seen in a long long long time it's colorful it's engaging it's informative I have terrible eyesight for those little things so I'm going to ask for a hard copy uh but that that really lays it all out I mean that that is true planning you know a timeline projects you know it steps everything's clearly defined so my compliments to the planning staff and the planning director for doing that having said that I don't know if I missed it when I stepped to the back of the room uh but is accessory dwelling unit discussion on there so as you if we go back to my first Slide the accessory dwelling units will be part of the affordable housing conversation so um I didn't put that as a specific category on that colorful timeline but it would be part of that conversation okay fine well done thank you I think that that that is amazing that helps us understand it's beautiful we've been asking for this for 10 years finally she gets somebody gets it there we need hard copies so okay I'll do my best and I think we should put it on the website too please yes yes and and I understand some of those dates can change as we're going through it's just an estimate yes some of I mean I'm going try to do my best to keep to those dates as as best as possible but you know obviously things may come in and go out that we're not aware of at the moment so dates are are somewhat flexible to a point like I saw August 14th on there on the one the the annual meeting for League of cities League of Mayors starts right about that time so anyways we'll some of us might not be here but go ahead mayor that's a good observation there's things that go on for staff too conferences and things vacations uh one noteworthy element to take into account is that we'll also be working on our annual budget during much of this timeline as well so there may be some slippage in connection with that because we'll have a lot of Preparatory work and staff time will be allocated but I think what Jennifer did here was an excellent job uh it reflects both priorities timing sequencing and and it's transparent and it will really be helpful to council as long as we all recognize it's a living document and and will require adjustment moving forward but it is uh it has fixed points in time and and we can all anticipate and know what we have to do as as those uh dates approach yeah I don't think ever since I got elected I've seen a chart in that much detail okay with the dates projected and the workshops and everything so I too think it was wonderful yeah it's what we needed okay all right so can we move on to uh tab let's see the a Mr Mayor there is one other housekeeping thing that I I we mentioned it last meeting but it was my request to consider a change of the council schedule in August okay a is this I I don't want to screw up the schedule you did did and we didn't we said we talk about it Thursday so we we had an email and I don't know if everybody responded I don't know if the clerk can weigh in on that or where we're at at all I heard from a couple of folks and it was um primarily to do it the same week as were initially scheduled so perhaps to do the Tuesday meeting on Wednesday August 7th and then the um land use meeting to take it off to the next night or move it to Friday so I would think that your conversation should be looking at um that week and whether you want to do land use on Thursday or Friday okay so could we do it on Wednesday and Thursday then back to back yeah no I'm sorry I'm good with Wednesday can we do it Wednesday so that what what are those dates Marne the Wednesday and Thursday it' be Wednesday August 7th and um Thursday August 8th Wednesday the 7th and Thursday the eth okay are we all good with that Henry are you okay with that sure okay thank you Shar Elizabeth you got okay all right all right thank you all of you appreciate it okay all right so now we can Mr Quick we're on to uh tab B in your book under resolution tab B that's right uh tab B is a resolution of the Village Council of Al Village of Island Florida establishing authorization for the reservation of building permit allocation B pass affordable dwelling unit allocations for award to the proposed Woods Avenue development and providing for an effective date Jennifer thank you Council um so tonight before you PR prepared a a resolution for the reservation of the be pass affordable allocations for Woods AV development um you may remember back in June of 2017 The Village Council adopted resolution number 17- 0639 approving the resolution of eight affordable allocation eight affordable unit allocations from the bass for the development of Workforce housing on Village owned launs on the corner of woods Aven gardinia Street on September 2nd 2021 the council awarded the project to Gorman and Company after issuing a requested qualifications resolution number 21-9 -84 awarded the project to Gorman also states that if Gorman elects not to or is otherwise unable to develop area a of the project site Award of area a of the project site shall automatically be awarded to Habitat for Humanity of the Upper Keys for development since the award of the project in 2021 Gorman has not made any attempt to develop the project they have not made any of the Milestones identified in the RFQ honor about April 2624 planning and development services department issued letters to Gorman and habitat for human outlining The Villages intent to move forward with Habitat Humanity as the developers of the affordable housing project we have received no response from Gorman and a positive response for Habitat for Humanity um so this resolution is just reserving the allocations that were initially intended to be reserved for Gorman for those for uh the project as well um for Habitat for Humanity uh I'm here if you have any questions um I also believe that the uh executive director in the background if you have any questions for Habitat as well okay Council I have some comments I'll make after everybody speaks but I'll hold my words after everybody's spoken okay all right go ahead Elizabeth we can do public comment first yeah okay Marne is there any public comment uh yes van Cadenhead I'm totally in favor of reserving the eight units but my question has always been uh who are we reserving them for and we're not going to be reserving them for Gorman now so we're we're going to by default go to uh Habitat for Humanity now my quibble with Habitat for Humanity has always been that they do not build what we need what we need are one ons what we need are 811 we don't need 211s and some 32s and 23s and anything else we need affordable housing for working people that that is less than $2500 a month like we ended up with at the the wet net that's not affordable housing I don't want to see us give uh the very valuable uh building permits for affordable housing that we got that we're going to reserve for whoever builds it to someone who's going to build whatever they want I want to make sure that the the people that are sitting up there you five people make it crystal clear to Habitat for Humanity that we do not need two threes and three tws and and anything other than one ons we need eight one ons in this project project we need to have this for working or you know maybe two one maybe two ones you know but but a a mix of of uh uh High bedroom three twos is not what we need that's what you let them get away with uh right across there from the OV and and now they're now they're um uh that place there is for families it's nice it's for families it's you know to three-bedroom two bedroom whatever but affordable housing is what we need for working people and one ones we need dormitories we need something that that a bunch of people can use like common areas we need some kind of uh conceptual uh thinking that that does not just make a profit for whoever builds it which is what I've been looking at with the Habitat for Humanity thank you very much with public land with public permits with and you're you're helping uh that process but are you helping the working people of Isa marada thank you Marney any other public comment no sir okay uh since we have Lindsay here Lindsay would you like to come up and since you are the head person from habitat hi there good evening mayor vice mayor members of the council and staff for the record my name is Lindsay fast uh representing habitat of Upper Keys yes Council anybody have any questions yes um Lindsay I know that you you all have just kind of recently been given uh the go-ahead to work on this property but I I am obviously a very big supporter of what you're do in in uh your company you're a 501c3 is that correct that's correct nonprofit yes good so um I I my experience has been that you all normally build Standalone single family home homes that are to be owner home owners and people that would live there provide Sweat Equity to contribute towards their uh construction of the property um but this property I know has some design constraints habitat in particular and I've heard things well maybe it was from Gorman that there was going to be an apartment there or maybe some duplexes or something can you share with us what you think the design is going to be the the style of it's going to be there absolutely so what we submitted at the RFQ back in 2021 it was actually eight single uh one one rental units so four on the bottom four on the top okay and yeah rental units like I said not ownership yes and I'm sorry one ones you said one On's pretty much what van was just talking about exactly yes okay that's it great thank you all right all right anybody else Henry you have anything for Lindsay yes you primarily build units that are rough for sale and not for um rent rent is that right correct this would be an exception to our mission but we're happy to do it because the community deserves that okay I'm not a main supporter of Gorman I'm very uncomfortable able with the wet net I'm uncomfortable because we receive $5,000 of a wet net they receive 600,000 now I know they have expenses out of the 600 for that one reason I'm not that favorable with Gorman however the reason gourment did not participate because they needed additional units so they can apply for federal money follow me yes so my idea is to include Gorman and why don't we give Gorman the Machado property he will gain the additional units that he needs to do his his half of this of this project so that's my offering in way of a solution uh we have not done anything with the Machado property and who knows if we ever will but that would suffice the need for rental units uh you'll still be your portion as well but not the whole thing and uh that's my solution okay so Lindsay are these rentals or are these going to be for sale rental units rentals that's what I thought and you man rental units right okay and you have all the money and everything ready to go for this now how long have we been waiting uh Mr Cole or Jennifer with Gorman I mean it's been a couple years since we inh habitats already got their houses built it September of 2021 was when the resolution to issue it to Gorman was all right was signed okay all right Sharon I'm I'm confused Henry why you would want to bring Gorman in I don't understand well because that Morman did not complete the his they didn't complete the eight I know because they wanted more they said they why would we do that go ahead just a thought that's all what he's what he's saying is that um I mean it's the way this is presented it's like Gorman just disappeared off the face of the Earth he needed he needed exality units in order for him to perform properly and gain the uh the money from the government to do the job they for profit yeah and look at the wet net why would you want I understand that well I'm just I wanted I'm thinking through possible solutions to everything I I just don't see the problem you don't see that okay you don't see it I just threw it out there to throw it out there I mean that's it's just I mean well because G Gorman would be able to do the his half of the project and from what I understand he was unable to do it because he didn't have enough units to do it with when you say his half he'd have to take what they have and Machado to make it worth his while yes right he wanted more right well I wouldn't give it to him well I want we're not doing the Machado product property make it use he could do the Machado property but then he would need the other property as well in order to do that Machado just sits there and has sit there we paid a million eight for J it's it's been there before he even got on the board yeah I know that Henry but I I just don't like Gorman Mr renthal may I I do believe habitat would probably be also interested in Machado based on what the ask is from the village just putting that out there and and other thing that's what I was going to say Lindsay too you guys are a 501c3 you have the money I I met with you and one of your board members over a year ago and you have this money that you have to use and is just sitting and and they're my thing is they're ready to go I mean hey that's eight more in sing one bedroom one bath homes that would be you know reasonable cheaper for somebody to afford Elizabeth thanks um well the exciting thing is that we're now having this conversation after so many years was that in your original RFP was it 1 one 1s 811s yes and is there is it were you constrained to that because of the size of the property the site plan exactly that like it didn't it wouldn't you know you couldn't go up or you couldn't make it we did go up to the second level that is exactly what we've did but we need parking underneath so that's why we're maxed out at the third story third level yep would you have any interest in the machad property absolutely absolutely haveit that would be interested all right I may be wrong but maybe I'm still right okay right I'm always right is that right thank you very much can you talk about the the the fee structure that you have for the people who live in these yeah it's a sliding scale set by Housing and Urban Development and it's based on the occupants in the home um and that changes every April so I'd hate to give a number now because that'll change in April before it we be done so I can't give like the rental rate more about that sorry what what could you tell me more about that sliding scale yes so that's the um the income scale that Housing and Urban Development set so habitat uh basically accepts applicants between the 50% and the 80% area median income as set by Hud um and they also set the rental the maximum rental rate so so like what what are they now for your properties at so I don't have any one one so I don't know it off the top of my head but I'm guessing it's about 13 to, 1500 a month for a one one so more than one like two people or could live in that oh absolutely Apartments yeah okay all right if council do anybody else have any other questions for I I do yes um this is not my question does not exactly regarding this property but it goes back to my earlier comment or question about the the normal business model for habitat is to create single families homes for to be owned and not to be rented and I know that your company has tried to do this through the village and it's obviously the supply of single family lots uh is limited for that purpose if if there were some available for single family homes for ownership um would you all have the capacity to to fulfill that to build them I mean if if we out of thin air came up with five or 10 and said here's some lots and let's work out a deal and you can build single family homes for ownership there would you still be interested in that I I would say so yes we would have to do a little bit of capital planning but I think make it work course okay okay all right Mr cold or you or Mr Quick or Jenifer have any questions for Lindsay okay Lindsay thank you very much absolutely thank you okay and Marty there's no other public comment that's correct okay public comment is closed council do uh I hear a motion well I I have some comments as I mentioned earlier um you know it's hard for me to to want to say something negative about affordable housing and I'm going to but I'm going to finish it with something positive uh so when we bought this property it was before any of us were on the council and that was a project promoted and and um finished by Seth Lawless and I I can't say the year for certain but I believe it was 2018 could have been 2019 and there was a couple of groups that were trying to get this up and going actually it was kind of talked about in in in in a pairing with the other project just a little bit to the south on gardinia Street there right next to the school and uh that that property I believe is single family home ownership it could be duplexes but um it already it had already been developed and it was uh cleared and so it wasn't a problem this property has hammock on it and yes I'm a hammock fan but there's some Provisions in the code that may not make this so easy um one of the provisions in the code has to deal with uh it's actually in the comp plan and it talks about you know uh requirements for Workforce affordable housing and it says shall not be placed in any habitat defined as Mangrove salt marsh Buttonwood tropical hardwood hammock or freshwater wetlands except for Disturbed categories and so I don't know what the quality of this hammock is I went on the village environmental maps and I got the map and here it is it's hard to see back there but it I'll just put my finger on it and it shows dark green and dark green corresponds to hammock as opposed to Disturbed with hammock which is the lighter green that you see up there so at least on the surface and at least based on just this piece of paper alone that is a problem now Jennifer and and Daniel have looked at this and there may be some way to work with this I don't know and maybe we want to work with it maybe we don't but I'm going to throw out another uh another uh feature of our code which talks about um it discourages development of affordable housing in a property that would receive negative points under the environmental criteria in the bass law and so that's criteria number five if this has hammock on it it's going to get negative points so there's that um and then we have the section dealing with the uh well it's also in here it says yes uh affordable housing should have certain criteria and it says and does not receive negative points according to the criteria specified under habitat protection so all of that is kind of a negative there's another part and I spoke with John quick about this a bit this morning on the positive side I'm sure you were all waiting for that I know Lindsay was waiting for that so on the positive side uh at the beginning of the B pass section of our code it describes when an applicant has to go through bass and when they are not required to go through bass and one of the exemptions or it says type of residential development not affected it says residential development by a federally tax exempt not for-profit educational scientific religious organization in other words that's why I asked her the question if she was a 501c3 Corporation and 501 John will give us the better explanation than my redneck interpretation but I don't think they have to go through b pass and I don't think they need a reservation may be wrong about that so I'd like to have that discussion but they seem to be exempt from going through the bass uh process so I will I will throw onto that hang on I what but but wait there's more and uh Henry opened the door for us by suggesting the Machado property we own four Lots on the highway one of the Lots is totally scarified the other one is pretty close and there's one that has quite a bit of hammock on it and I think the Northerly lot has some Disturbed some hammock and quite a bit of invasive those all have a certain amount of development potential and to me it makes sense for us not only for you know environmental reasons but as a policy and then for economic reasons to allow Habitat to develop down on those Machado properties cuz they're a lot bigger they don't the two of them at least have no environmental concerns whatsoever and then the ones that do we could maybe spend some of the money that we talked about the other night like we were going to spend out here to restore the hammock property but use the density off of it to increase the density on the others so they could have a big bigger project on a piece of cleared land that doesn't involve any the development of a hammock and and the last thing I would say is that the Machado excuse me the woods Avenue property in spite even though it does have hammock on it it's in a very difficult position it's where two roads the bottleneck starts right there you got two schools you got a school crossing I don't know if adding more development at that location is in our best interest to do that there may be others that say otherwise and you know maybe you want to do a traffic study I'm just bringing it up for conversation I don't want to do anything to stop habitat from providing us with uh affordable housing but before we do this can we see if there's a better answer for it and they seem to be ready willing and able to go this is a moment right here right now where we can make that happen so that's what I have to say maybe John can weigh in on my analysis of whether the B pass is required or The Hammocks are there you know maybe I'm crazy well I know I but maybe I'm right we'll see in terms of the analysis of the the I guess the exemption or the uh the types of residential development not affected under bass it would take a we didn't have we have not had a chance to look at it would take an analysis of the actual proposal because in that provision there are certain things that that staff and the Village Council have to find that it's some such as it's it provides a public service not being provided by existing commercial entities um doesn't negatively impact levels of service standards or increase hurricane evacuation time so I I couldn't answer that tonight we'd have to look at the proposal to see if it fits within um the provision you're talking about I I left that out on purpose in terms of the the uh hammock Jennifer just leaned over you can she can chime in on that so I asked our uh biologist and Senior environmental planner Danielle parach to look at these Lots after um we spoke in your briefing and um he had actually looked at these Lots as part of the exercise the council had asked for last fall when we presented Ed the list of Village owned Lots suitable for affordable housing um and these four Lots were listed as lowquality hammock um and so they're they're a low quality uh according to Daniel okay so Jennifer with that being said how long ago did we issue we gave Gorman the right to go ahead and build eight units there couple years ago in 21 well they didn't have the right to go out and build immediately I believe they had the right to enter into a lease agreement with the village and then they would How would we have known that that this was a I mean how would we have known that this was a hammock lot I mean if a high ham only after an analysis and I I don't know when that was done but it's now we we know it's done so when when habitat goes to the uh application process they're going to be scrutinized just like any other developer would and then they're going to see that it's got hammock on it I think that the staff should look at that in light of the the policies in the code and maybe even the Pro there may be a Prohibition in the code that prevents putting affordable housing on a hammock property because it's been a long-standing policy we do not cannibalize a protected hammock for the sake of affordable housing Jennifer what did you just say you just said it's low quality correct yes sir okay thank you ordinarily that means you can clear 50% right yes and so we're going to have to clear some because I don't know that the but what's low Quality quality are these Machado properties is the Machado grp no no the woods Corner Woodsen Woods Avenue property but Machado now if you go back to the hearing that we had and Buddy and and Henry we had that hearing on Machado in the early part of 2021 and in the in the agenda materials for that hearing was a habitat analysis done by Susan sprunt and it shows very clearly where the habitat where the hammock is and where it isn't and as I recall the was good hammock there was Disturbed hammock there was some maybe Exotics quite a bit of Exotics so there there could be some potential development for that property but it's also a great candidate for restoration and that's where some of the mitigation money that I talked about on TH or Tuesday night could be spent to bring that back and then the lot that's right on Monroe in us one that is the hardest that's the heaviest hammock lot that I I think personally the people that live there it's right across from the Habitat homes where we're right exactly I I think if I remember right that one actually had a whole lot of Exotics on it it's it's the Waterfront lot that has the most hammock on it but I my memory is bad so we could look at that later but you know we can we can we can reserve these if you want to but I I think I I don't want um H Habitat to go so far down the road and then we get to the end where it's time to issue the permit or approve it or whatever and we suddenly discover oh we got all these hammock problems and we could have avoided that by using a much bigger property that you can put a lot more units on and that's what their mission is so are we are you asking for Habitat to come back with a different proposal for a different piece of property well I don't know what I'm asking because there's a lot of moving parts that are not necessarily consistent I think the first question is do they even need to have a reservation are they exempt from Bass so they we need to do that analysis my other question is would also the the comment that I was going to bring up is whether or not rather that we could award them the early out Evac early out affordable um allocations instead of well that's the other reason I asked her about home ownership because because these are rentals and they're multif family it fits the definition of the early outs and then we could reserve the the eight affordables for home ownership and let them take those also okay so what what kind of Direction I mean this is obviously complicated and do we want to ask for an a better analysis or more of of considering this conversation and bring something back considering the hammock issue the early out evacuation and the possibility of doing rentals and um and uh rentals all around considering the other property we we have the allocations we have both the old old pool old school old pool affordables that could be sold for home ownership we have the 300 units and we've reserved some of those and we have cleared land ready to build on and a ready willing and able partner in the audience tonight ready to go I I don't know what what more we can do to make that happen well so but it needs to come back in a different form than this Jennifer I'm you guys recommended this corre we did because the previous resolution from the previous Council in 2021 directed that habitat would be the default uh developer if Gorman were to not participate so that was the direction of the council at the time and that's why I went that route so if you want to keep what what would happen to Woods Avenue just leave it well I think it if you really want to know the answer I think we should rezone it to conservation and it has Highway commercial zoning and we could Zone the other properties to Highway concern uh conservation so we get one that's preserved and the other one we increase the density on it so we can have more affordable housing because it's in a more appropriate location for that it's a super wind and and so what the reason this was coming back to us is because it was required by the last um by by the by the last understanding but it doesn't I don't I don't think I don't want to speak for you Jennifer but you're not opposed to this reworking of the SC scenario I am not um and it's it's far more it makes sense so but what I don't understand is we're going to let Gorman build on them all right now we're coming back in here a couple years later and we're changing we're we're changing and we're in habitat's ready to go this is a ready to go project and we're changing that's all I'm going to say I'm not you guys can do I want to talk to you about Gorman I think you should know I spoke to Dan and I can't remember his last name at Gorman we had a long conversation about this a couple years ago when the village first acquired those properties um dor Gorman has a special place in the affordable housing Marketplace they've got a nice little niche going and their sweet spot is and I'll get it pretty close but it's like 25 to 45 units or maybe up to 50 if if they're watching they're going to go oh no you got it wrong but it's it's a it's a sort of a medium size and so they were willing to do some include this property at Woods Avenue as long as they had a couple of other ones nearby where they could justify bringing in all the resources and mobilizing everybody and it it's in a more contained area done simultaneously it makes sense economically to do that well they couldn't get any other properties they could do the eight here that would have great been great but they would have need needed you know 20 or 30 more it didn't happen they didn't go through with the plan you know it's not worth it for them to do eight it's worth it for Habitat to do eight so we got a part partner at the lower unit number we we got two partners out there we got a huge need and we got 300 allocations to deal with hitch could use both of them they could use Woods Avenue and exact we keep slowing every time I turn around man how many I've heard for 10 years we need affordable housing we need affordable housing and we never get it done mark because we change things every time we turn around you're making the speech I tried to make about accessory dwelling units it's the same thing I don't understand it change the goalpost we tell people you know we want to build affordable housing we talk about it until we're blue in the face and now we have somebody that I met with almost a year ago that told me they have the money when can we they a year ago I met with them look I I I don't want I saw I said at the outset I'm a huge fan of of uh habitat but we have we have to look at the other parts of the code that deal with the hammock I mean yes they could build there they could clear 50% of that but look at what they could do just a mile and a half or so down the road I don't understand why we can't do both of them because our code discourages cannibalizing a hammock for affordable housing and we've kind of set ourselves out as being protective of the environment and wanting to conserve the hammock and if and there's going to be mitigation fees that we have to pay why would they want to run up the expense for that when they can go right down the road and do it for nothing in fact we could spend money from the mitigation fee to to ese that how long is it going to take for us to get the the the property ready Machado property to let them do that I don't know let's let the staff look at it it's a planning department thing it has to come back in the in this form the land is cleared it's ready to go we have the live local act it can do all kinds of things right I think we put our heads together and figure it out and if it doesn't work go back to plan A talked about it and we are part of the problem from stopping affordable housing from happening in the village I'm not trying to stop it I'm trying to increase it this this suggestion would increase what habitat can do but just on a different property and the direction if we want to go in that direction I would support it would be to ask Jennifer if she could come back after working with Lindsay to present a different resolution that would capture what has been said here and that I mean that can happen at the next meeting actually I don't know I should look I know I'm hitting you with this cold without any background information because I can't do that you know with the Sunshine Law this the second reading this it's a resolution there's no first no it's it's just for the reservation you know we we've already allowed that first of all I don't think they need it it's not required and and that would allow them to go forward with this if you guys don't want to go along with my new idea but I think the idea of taking a little more time another month if you want or whatever the staff needs to see if there's you know we have a lot of assets out there we have a lot of allocation and we have a huge need and we have people ready to do it company's ready to do it why can't we just find a way to coordinate all that for a much better outcome that saves the environment I'm just trying to figure out why well the the reason but do do you want to talk about that why to do it talk about okay yeah well I would make a mo I mean I I think this is a good idea and I I doubt if I mean you know Lindsay it's not like you guys have been wait haven't been waiting for 3 years another month isn't going to probably kill you I don't know if there's more of an opportunity in it for you do maybe you have a comment on that or maybe not maybe that's just rhetorical I I I wouldn't be opposed to reserving the allocations from the original affordable housing pool for uh Habitat to use on other properties because they want to build single family homes for ownership I I why can't they we let them have that that's just so Random we're that's that's to me stri me as random I mean don't have we don't have any well there may be some land out there they can find it we have some I think we I think the intention here is intention was that these are going to be eight rental units that they're going to manage and just as van said we need you know one bedrooms right and what things he say there's going to be eight one-bedroom units right there they can do 16 on the majado property right now with no zoning change well let's be clear they can do 16 on all four Lots well there's a total of 16 between the four Lots corre if they aggregate them as one parcel they can then cluster the development on the Disturbed part of the property and leave the hammock alone and and that was why that property was purchased wasn't it exactly and that was 100 years ago so the benefit here is that which one was 100 years ago Machado I mean how Mach was we did it in 21 we bought it three years ago it's taken three years for us to do anything with that so this is a I mean we we talked the other night about you got all this you know we've got the uh the when we were buying the church property we we got the island island silver and spice property Machado property uh we're just letting those asset sit there now we got a player a partner that's willing to do it and we have the allocations let's turn them loose and let them have it see why they don't take both and I'm trying to figure out why because of the hammock no no no no no Elizabeth the hammock is a real issue I mean that's something that even though they can build there it may make it more expensive well Mark we could also they could plant trees on some of that stuff at Machado to thick make the the one that we're not going to build on over there with more hammock we could we could yes exactly it okay and I don't think they would be uh I think they would be amable to doing that but this is this thing could be Jennifer am I right or wrong could this be ready to go quickly uh well that's I think more of a question for Habitat but I think from our perspective they would need to come in for a lease with the Village um and then do their permitting but other than that like a lease like they have on the other property where they just bu the nine yes okay all right so so I would like to just in me I think everyone has their own idea of how they're going here but I would like to suggest that we ask for this to come back and reflecting the the conversation Mark just put forward um can we agree to that do I need a motion to do that I'll second it if you do we'll see if we got three votes yeah I would I would move to to um what is the move is it defer or deferring this with a reworking of the I don't know you know how to say that you know what I'm trying to say asking staff to um to come back with a what I think I'm hearing ask staff to come back with a plan as to whether or not the Village Council still or Village still wants to move forward with the woods Avenue no it's the it's sorry I can I'll figure it out it's I would move that we that staff come back with an with a um solution to applying uh these early out affordable housing units to this Machado property after working with Habitat to understand how they might work in that capacity something to that effect the the only uh um friendly amendment I would have with that is about the early out because the at least the unless you aren't talking about the eight we're talking about here the eight that we're talking about here reserving are not part of the early out um affordables that that but what we're but we're what we're saying is that I think that what we're saying is that we should look at whether or not we can use early out for this this bigger project I it create an analysis I don't even analyze it and you tell us so that we're not making stuff up I understand what you're asking for no so is there a second to that I'll second it okay Marne we got a motion in a second Henry do you understand what the motion is can you Mr Quick can you repeat the motion that this is going to so we make sure we're those of us that I'm going to make sure we understand this it was a motion to defer the current item and direction to staff to bring back an analysis for the options that are available on the Machado property all all options available correct yeah yeah so we got a motion in a second Marne would you call the role please okay council member Elizabeth Jolan yes council member Mark grg yes council member Henry Rosenthal the only comment I want to make is on the allocation should be used with the 300 the early out allocations yes yeah they were going to an the motion allowed for that analysis okay just so it's 300 yeah so it's they're going to tell us I know that but got it I hear you I'm suggesting that's all okay with that I'll approve it yes vice mayor Sharon Mahoney no and mayor buddy Pender no motion pass is three to two I just have a question is that is it reason I mean there's obviously concern about the time that it's taken for us to get here and that's no one's fault in this room but is it is there a time frame that we can look at for this just to kind of manage everybody's expectations particularly habitats I can uh I'm not going to be here in your July meeting I'll be on vacation um pre-planned family vacation that I am not going to work at but um I will do my best to have it for your August meeting for August whatever whatever want aak yeah you know I wonder if we could is there any way to do the Quasi judicial stuff before we get to the ordinances because there are people here waiting to speak to them waiting that's what I'm saying but we we we tear everything up and change it people come expecting and we keep deferring and deferring and deferring man well could so the question is we come we've all had a briefing about this we've all you know and we just put stuff off and I I tell you what I I I couldn't run a business this way I could not be successful running a business that every time that comes you want we want to change the goal post and change everything so I'm sorry man it's not right and I'm I'm just speaking it's not right to treat people like this and the people that need affordable housing in this community and all we do is we keep the L somebody's got money it costs time is money it costs money interest just waiting so thank you guys thank you okay well uh do we do we need a we need a break or we want to move on toab C you need a break I don't need a break yes you do I'm ready to go I'm ready to go Henry so so I had a question of whether we could just move up the Quasi judicial since there are people here who are um waiting for it and that that's it's a couple tabs down that's a good idea to me is there a consensus to move it up or do we yeah I I mean there if you don't mind I I know you guys are you good with that good idea go ahead okay so Mr Qui yep those are going to be tabs FG and J um f and Y let me read the transcript for the or the script for the Quasi those quasi items uh we're on to the uh second phase of Quasi judicial items these are tabs FG and J uh please be advised that the following agenda items are Quasi judicial in nature if you wish to comment upon these items please inform the village clerk by filling out the available signup form an opport Unity for persons to speak on each item will be made available after the applicant and staff have made their presentations on each item as a reminder testimony and quas judicial items must be in person Zoom testimonies not permitted these proceedings will be handled in accordance with the village code requirements all testimony including public testimony and evidence will be made under oath or affirmation additionally each person who gives testimony may be subject to cross-examination if you do not wish to be either cross-examined or sworn your testimony shall be disregarded the general public will not be permitted to uh cross-examine Witnesses but the public May request the council to ask questions of Staff or Witnesses on their behalf the full agenda packet on uh each item is hereby entered into the record along with the village code and the comprehensive plan any correspondence that was received by The Village staff is included in the file and part of the record persons representing organizations must present evidence of their authority to speak for the organization further details of the Quad judicial procedures in section 30- 256 of the village code may be obtained from the village clerk uh tonight in this section there are three quasa judicial items which again are tabs FG and J at this time I would like to ask anyone who intends to speak on those uh three quasa judicial items tonight to please raise your hand to be sworn in by the clerk hey in the matter in which you are about to give testimony do you swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth the witnesses have been sworn Mr Mayor we will start with tab F which is a uh resolution The Village Council of Isam Village violence Florida concering the request reest of dolphins plus Oceanside marina and mammal responder Inc on behalf of um mm 82.7 48 LLC major conditional use approval for the Redevelopment of the change of use from existing retail store into Veterinary Hospital Dolphins Plus Marine Mammal responder Center combined with considering the request for an administrative variance approval for eight parking spaces for the property located at 82748 Overseas Highway on upper Matic k key with the Village Center within the Village Center zoning district with real estate number 00 4447 - 000010 as legally described herein providing for the transmittal of this ordinance uh providing for the transmittal of this resolution to the Florida Department of Commerce and providing for an effective date I'll be presenting this tonight Mr Mayor okay all right uh John what about expar communication yep um Council before we begin I would like you to please disclose any um expar Communications that you may have had with the applicant or anyone else again this one is on Tab F and please include whether the person represented any group or entity as well as a subject matter thank you all right I'll start John I talked to you about it because I think uh and I talk to Ty Harris Ty Harris for me Ty Harris for me nobody nobody okay we'll wait for Elizabeth to see if she said uhuh okay she said no okay all right we are ready to proceed then thank you Council Jennifer burkham planning director uh for the village V Mara I'm sorry Jennifer dorin I just used my maiden name sorry been a been a long night um sorry Dolphins plus Oceanside Marine Manimal responder Inc um is its agents have submitted an application for major use conditional use approval to allow for the Redevelopment of the existing retail store into a veterinarian hospital located at 82748 Overseas Highway on May 23rd 2024 The Village mailed notices to the adjacent Property Owners informing them of the project that the project was scheduled to be reviewed by Village Council the sign assign was also posted on the property on May 23rd 2024 The Village has received no letters of objection or contact from the adjacent owners of as of this coun communication the property is approximately 053 acres in size approximately 23 to 23,25 Ft with a 1056 576 Square ft retail store and storage structure the property is within the Village Center only district and is categorized within the future land use map flum mixed use flum the property has been previously permitted to as a retail store business commercial space the proposed development is to allow for the Redevelopment for veterinarian hospital Dolphins Plus Marine Mammal responders protects Center the major conditional use is triggered by a change in use from retail to Dolphin rehabilitation center with an above ground Rehabilitation pool and in conjunction with the major conditional use the applicant is also requesting a variance for eight parking spaces the existing habitat for the subject parcel is classified as scarified pursuant to the section 302 218 of code of ordinances the village of VI marada the application for major cons use must be considered by The Village Council for approval approval with conditions or denial based on the standards in the code Chapter 30 Land Development regulations conditional uses are those uses that are generally compatible with other uses permitted in the zoning District but that require individual review of their location design configuration and intensity and density of the use the structures and may be required to impose conditions pertinent theto to ensure that the appropriateness and compatibility compatibility of their use at a particular location conditional use for shall be accompanied by a site plan consistent with subsection 30- 215d pursuant to code section 30-2 2016d when considering an application for conditional use the director and Village Council shall consider the following factors and no conditional use shall be approved which fails to meet any standard below the failure to comply with any of the standards shall be deemed to adverse the public interest all of those standards are in your packet and we've reviewed all those standards and they comply with all the standards except for as a I stated before the parking requirement the proposed change in use requires an administrative variance for the parking of vehicles for anticipated uses of the property the applicant is seeking the variants for eight parking spaces we've reviewed all the requirements of uh variance for the relaxation of the parking requirement and we find that the variance is in harmony with the general intent and purpose of the chapter and is not injurious to the neighborhood or otherwise detrimental to the public welfare and the ReUse of the existing structure ensure that the vacant property is not cleared because existing structures are repurposed that so I'm sorry I just wanted to say that staff has reviewed the request for major conditional use approval and variance for the parking and determine that s plan is consistent with the goal consistent with the goals objectives policies of the comprehensive plan and the code of ordinances and the staff recommends The Village Council approve the major conditional use and the variance for eight parking spaces with the eight 10 conditions in your packet Mr Harris again Ty Harris 110 Plantation Shores Drive on here on behalf of the applicant um I will make this short if if you're against injured Dolphins you have no soul um in in seriousness um yesterday an issue was brought up about whether or not there was a lot line adjustment that needed to be made and so what I would propose I think you could probably say it's covered under the nine conditions uh and one of them is you have to comply with all building and planning requirements so I think it's covered but if you wanted it to be more specific we could put a condition in there that says if there is a lot line issue that we will um address it and that U before final Co and that no final Co would be given until that issue is addressed but uh appreci apprciate all the staff's work on this um in all seriousness you know right now in the keys if there's an injured dolphin it's put down it's euthanized it it doesn't go anywhere it it's we don't have a facility for it they're euthanized right yes you cannot put these Dolphins these wild dolphins that are sick or injured in with the existing dolphins that we have at different attractions cannot be done so this is a a huge thing we have a a wild bird rescue we have a turtle rescue but somehow we missed out on on a Dolphin Rescue so this is the the facility that will address that for the entire Keys uh the variance is required because the the working part of this the veterinarian part isn't open to the public and so to have the the rehabilitation pool um we our code just doesn't have a way of of of calculating or or addressing the issue of what's open to the public and what's not open to the public so therefore the parking variance is necessary so that's the explanation for why that's there but everything that's considered back of the shop anything that you do to rehabilitate the animals that's not open to the public the only part that's open to the public is just like in the wild bird center the little gift gift store area up in the front so with that um if you have any questions I'm I'm here to answer them I also have one of the principles here who is a marine biologist if you have any questions for him um on the gruesome details of what happens to injured and sick dolphins or how you uh get rid of the waste from these tanks I've got the guy to answer them but with that I will uh I will stop talking thank you thank you Ty all right Mr Qui do we need to uh go ahead and have public comment yep and as a reminder it's opened up to um participants in support of the application first okay all right so uh Marne do we have anybody signed up in support I have no one signed up at all okay is there anybody here that is in support that would like to talk I'm sorry van it looked like you wrote item I'm sorry okay van okay once again I want to sit on the fence of this this one because I I agree with Tai that the injured Dolphins especially wild injured dolphins need a A Way Station to get them to a proper place to be rehabilitated I'm not sure that this property is is uh big enough for what they need now I've looked at the backyard I've been around and and you know surveyed the fact that they want to put in a pool and it would be for a long long-term rehab would be really in my opinion cruel to a dolphin to to uh have uh that kind of a thing uh attached to a tourist uh related gift shop which is what you're basically talking about um I I think would the Dolphins need a hospital they need Veterinary Care they need access to the to the water you know to be brought in by water they also need access to be brought in by trucks from wherever else they're collected and and the the constraint of the backyard of what we're talking about when you put a big pool back there I mean no matter how big the pool is it's going to be too small for a wild dolphin I mean they may be sick they may be injured they may be maybe not uh you know doing The Flipper tricks like they do at the uh theater of the sea but they they are it's like putting a an eagle in a canary cage you you know you don't want to do that because these are wild animals and you're constricting and constraining them in a really small place and and somebody's going to address uh the the pro aspect and and I ask uh you know the the Department of Environmental Protection to examine this and and are we going to have manate in there too I mean we're going to exclude manatees that are run over by boats I mean to me we should be we should have uh a facility that's larger in a more accessible place this is this is like uh a a adjunct to dolphins plus where they can they can uh uh funnel people through here and up to their swim of the Dolphins program that's all well and good but but uh the the actual dolphins that are injured that are in this pool with however many uh professional veterinarians are going to be constrained by the size of the pool and the fact that uh uh you know they can't have more than one or two in there because what are you going to do with Dolphin doodoo you know what are you going to do with the are you going to exclude manatees I mean it it's to me it it's fought it looks good on paper but it to my in my opinion it's fought with uh Peril because I I think it could be uh very cruel to the dolphins that are under treatment and it should be a Way Station if you're going to allow it to happen A Way Station to bring it to Orlando or Miami or some other place that has a dolphin facility with enough space and a big enough pool and a natural Basin or something for them to to uh uh be rehabbed in because this in my way of thinking I mean you're thinking about the the viability of the business and you're not thinking about the comfort and the health of the Dolphins so uh thank you very much Mr Cooper would you like to come and uh say something please sure I would really like to hear from him I want to make sure that he was sworn um I was okay perfect I I did uh and and I I Echo your concerns um there was a a moment in time when we had access to a much larger natural Lagoon up at 103 where we did those activities and we had uh pools for um emergency critical care we had a shallow water lagoon area that was partially shaded for uh being able to return the animal to a more natural environment as quickly as possible and then we had a long Canal where we could actually do uh pre-release conditioning to get animals back back in shape before letting them go because agreed it's not great to keep them in a pool the federal government regulates this uh this isn't a a business decision on our part this is a a not for-profit organization uh we're providing a service for these animals where the goal is to take out of habitat injured uh boat strike sick uh animals rehabilitate them as quickly as possible and put them back into the ocean the idea is not to keep them in the pool for long the longer we have them in the pool the more time the pool is shut down for critical care um so the goal is to to get an animal that's really injured uh get them well as quickly as possible and either put them back in the ocean with Federal approval or the federal government nashine fishery service evaluates the animals and they have criteria where they determine if the animal is releasable or needs to go into long-term rehab our goal is not to be a long-term rehab facility our goal is to be uh a Critical Care Emergency facility once the animal is determined by the feds it can go back to the wild or it needs long-term rehab then in fact they would go to U A SeaWorld or a clear water marine aquarium or or some other facility also there are uh there are viruses that the animals can have uh they have to be virally cleared before they could be put with other health healthy animals um so again I I Echo those concerns I would love to have more space if any of you have a really big piece of waterr property that you want to donate or lease or loan we're up for it um this is what we have at the moment we have addressed the um the effluent from Dolphins uh we have a u a salt waterer well where we're pulling water from the saltwater lens um we're filtering it and when we back flush the pool we'll back flush into a holding tank or natural evaporation will take place and the effent will be pumped out by um like a Mitchell's pump out service type thing so none of it goes back into the environment we do not have a reinjection well uh we understand the ramifications of that um I hope that answers most of your questions do you guys have any specific questions beyond that questions for Mr Cooper yeah I do okay I'm very familiar with that property I had several contracts on that property and I can't believe what you're proposing fits on that property quite frankly I don't know what the floor ratio is to the size of the property I wrote down 45 and if that's the case that's not too good my main question was what do you do with the water and I think you answered that question for me I'm surprised you're looking at that property for your objectives truthfully I really am I mean it's just a 10,000 square feet for a retail outlet I don't know I mean if you and I sat down and talked over this thing I would S suggest you look someplace else quite frankly it seems just to be so many negatives to what you want to do now I guess you're saying how much are the I mean what's the size of the pools that you're or a pool the the pool is a a 40t diameter by 6t tall we have scuppers at 3 and 1/2 ft 4 ft and 5 1/2 ft we have holding tanks for the water so that if we need to drop the water in the pool we can actually hold that water uh contained manage an animal in critical care and add water back to that pool without doing any discharge onto the ground none of it will go into the sewer um and it's all managed in that way it will be U filtered and and and cleaned Etc uh there will be a a retractable shade structure uh for the animals uh Comfort um and again this is not an ideal piece of property for our purpose this is the only piece of property left we manage we are the only whale and dolphin federally licensed uh Response Unit covering all of Mono County we are from the south edge of Elliot key to the Dry Tortugas to the cape that's Atlantic Ocean Gulf of Mexico Florida Bay Flamingo it's 10 000 square miles um the most difficult thing for us to do and we've been doing this since 1990 is to go out and respond to an animal uh pick it up stabilize it and make the call to SeaWorld or clear water uh or one of the other organizations and hear that there's no pool space available because they either have a critical care animal in the pool that we can't put an animal that has them Environ cleared in with um or they just don't have the space and we have to euthanize it frankly sitting here tonight talking and listening to all of the environmental um objectives uh of this commission um we can do better than that and if the best I can do is put a pool on that lot for now until we we build in the future uh that's what I'm asking permission to do oh uh one other thing uh van manatees are a different permit manatees are managed by the state dolphins and Wells are managed by the FED uh Dolphin Research Center holds the manatee permit with fish and wildlife and we do assist them with Manatee rescues um uh aquarium Adventures um aquarium encounters uh in Marathon they also hold the amenity permit they're part of we said let's get this thing open and then and then we'll we'll talk with you so we we already do participate with manatees there are two separate permits So currently do research center is manatees we're dolphins and whales and we all work together unless anybody has more space which I'll be happy to accept Council anybody else have any questions for Mr Cooper yeah one more okay as far as tourism goes it's an attraction no question about that how are you going to hand what space do you have as far as people pulling into the lot and want to be a part of the visual happening the the animals in rehab are are not part of public display uh so that won't be an attraction we're trying to create something that's relatively lowkey I I think in in my mind if you or in your mind if you envision a mix of the turtle hospital and the history of diving Museum we're trying to have an educational component more than a retail space right now we have a retail space because we're we're eating a lease and we need to to pay the bills um we've been working with um some of the coral groups with iare coral to do educational programs there and we're working toward weekly and monthly educational um Endeavors there so so you feel the retail space is the attraction as far as the tourist goes I'm filling a space that's a void with retail I really just want to open a Veterinary Hospital there for marine mammals that's your primary interest correct okay I still have light bills and all of the other moer mons to go with that um the gift shop is not the the goal the gift shop is there because we have a huge amount of retail space that's just sitting vacant while we're waiting to put a rescue pool there is huge and for the public information there's a balcony that goes around that property and in the interior the pool will be outside yeah oh I understand that right okay I don't have a question for you I have a comment that um I guess what a lot of people don't realize um I work in with animals too not not Dolphins different species but I don't think people realize when you're in a triage situation you sort of have to do what you have to do to save the animal and we I think every organization whether it's Turtles Birds dolphins and cats that's what I do you you would love the perfect place to do this but you have to make do with what's available if you want to save these animals and I I understand it's a big store I've been in there lots of times but I commend him for what he's doing I think it's a necessary thing we have to have sure we all would want a better facility I've been changing locations with veterinarians in our clinics and span and neuter years you you have to make do with what's available to you or the animals are going to die and again I commend you I think it's so much needed I think what you're doing is wonderful and I know from my own rescue that I and uh again you have to make do with what's available and I know that firsthand so I commend you thank you I dolphins are kind of like horses they're way more expensive than cats and just to to backtrack about 10 10 subjects cuz I grew up on the street where across from the lobster traps the billboard was a stues oh okay I got there in 70 and art just give us a little bit of History you how long have you and your family been in Dolphins been working with dolphins uh my uncle started the the first uh dolphin program uh swim program in the world at Dolphins Plus in 1980 I went to work for him in 1990 um I've been there for 34 years I walked in there at 21 if you want to do the math um uh I've personally held the license for whale and dolphin rescue since 1990 we've managed uh 485 marine mammals um and every once in a while someone will throw out the argument the only reason that you guys do strandings is so you can acquire you know fresh animals of the 485 animals that we have uh managed over time we've accepted the custody of one uh she was deaf blind and neurologically impaired I had to hire a second full-time vet to care for her uh she lived with us for uh four years uh so uh we want to put everybody back that we can um we've we've got Dolphins that's not our our issue we converted half the business to not for profit uh so that we could take money and donation from those swims and perform conservation and rescue in this uh in this Arena one question okay Henry go ahead what additional what support do you have to to cover your finances okay the majority of the support that we have is from people coming to swim at Dolphins Plus Marine memo responder that's the facility that's by the uh Keara Fisheries right formerly the hills yes um so we we had two dolphin facilities there um and we we con helped convert one to not for-profit called the island doin care that's independent of us and they work solely and specifically with children with and adults with special needs and wounded veterans and the other half of the facility has become Dolphins Plus Marine mamal responder um there are limited um government grants um the one that's currently out there is through the Event Horizon uh BP um and it's uh totaling $100,000 a year for a 5year period um and that goes to pay for our leads training investigator who covers a whole 10,000 square miles one short question is a TDC participating in any way yes yes TDC is is helping us renovate some of our restrooms which are 30 years old which are in need uh driveways uh some some other structures yes TDC is being helpful thank you for your presentation thank you go ahead um Art thank you for your presentation I would just go ahead and move to approve this if there's no other further discussion second a second okay um do Mr Quick do we have to have see if there's any other public comment did we call Marty did we call anybody in opposition if there are any there is no one else under there okay all right we can the motion the public comment is is now closed and are thank you very much thank you guys okay all right so we have a motion and we have a second did did that um councilwoman julan did did that motion did you want to include the profer by the um the applicant about the uh additional condition if a lot line adjustments is required approval shall be obtained prior to a CO approve it with that okay that okay with the move second okay Marne would you call the role please council member Elizabeth Jolan yes council member Mark greag yes council member Henry Rosenthal yes vice mayor Sharon Hy yes and mayor buddy Pender yes motion passes 5 to zero all righty so now we can move on to G Mr Quick Tab D sorry tab G is stated as follows resolution of the Village Council of alam Village violence Florida considering administrative appeal number PL aa2241 04 filed by Barbara Edgar appellant relating to an administrative decision interpretation by the director of planning reconsideration of dwelling unit determination for property located at 7513 1 Overseas Highway having real estate number 00 39888 - 0000000000 on Lower Momi key is legally described herein and providing for an effective date and again Council before we begin uh if you could please disclose any exp parte Communications that you may have had with anyone um this is on Tab G uh and please include whether that person represented any group or entity as well as the subject matter as best you recall Council I spoken with Barbara eer on this a number of times but it it's been at least a year maybe two years I didn't know she was going to be here but I it was well before this application Henry yes so likewise I've spoken to Barbara and her daughter have to mention her thank you okay um I would say myself likewise I've talked to her but it's been a long time and she's told me her and Bobby were interested we've talked many times since I got elected in 2020 uh so that's it but not in a while I didn't even know this was coming up tonight until I had my briefing so I talk to Barbara all right Elizabeth you oh nothing okay all right so Mr Quick there you go uh Jennifer yes sir um here this evening for the resolution considering the administrative appeal regarding 75131 Overseas Highway um this property again is located at 75131 Overseas Highway it's more fully described as lot 67 Momi Ocean Beach SEC Beach section A subdivision recorded in plat book two page 39 of the public records of Maro County Florida with real estate number 039 888- 0000000000 in is zo with a residential single family R1 zoning District the property is currently recognized as having five legally established dwelling units one Triplex and a two-story duplex resulting from an application by Mr Irving eer for a dwelling unit determination heard by The Village Council at a duly noticed public hearing on September 22nd 2005 the determination by Village Council was not appealed during the appeal period a lat a letter dated February 25th 2008 from Deputy Village manager planning and development services director Ed konis restated to Mr eer that the village recognized five dwelling units on the property and that those units could be redeveloped without the necessity of a build building permit allocation system allocation again the number of Legally established dwelling units recognized was not appealed by the property owner Mr eer the letter dated September 27th 2003 to the planning director the trustee of the property Barbara Edgar requested that a reconsideration of the dwelling unit determination due to new information that was not previously presented to the Village Council the appellant is requesting the determination to establish three additional dwelling units on the property as the Village Council decision was Final and not appealed the director does not have the authority to reconsider a council decision the appellant was notified in writing on April 18th 2024 of the director's decision and the Appel and filed the administrative Appeal on May 7th 2024 the appal on statement previous dwelling unit decisions witness statements photographs and building plans have been submitted for the council's consideration I'm here if they have any questions I I'd like to ask a question about this I I I'm familiar with the property familiar with the issues involved frankly I think that they've met the proper standard but what I have a problem with is the process so what the applicant is asking us to do is to look at something that the council looked at in 2005 or 2008 2005 right we weren't around here then you know this is a first look for us um there is no provision in the code to have a reconsideration of something that's 15 years old or 14 years old although I think that she's met the standard and I would love to approve it tonight I think we have to focus on the process because it has precedential value somebody else could come in here that came back that didn't get what they wanted several years ago the right thing to do in my humble opinion is for Miss eer to file another applic for legally established dwelling units and include this new information as well as the old stuff and then the planning director would have authority to evaluate that it may not even require that she come before us um she may be able she may have enough information and the discretion to grant that without us having to go through this but I I just don't like the irregularity of this um again the substance of it is a total different matter and I as I said I I would I would ordinarily want to approve something based upon what I've saw seen now this is a Quai judicial hearing we have to have more evidence I I don't I'm not willing to you know make a a firm decision on that till we hear everything but I don't think we can get to that tonight I think the proper thing to do is to ask her to file a new application do it over clean neat with all the updated information at one shot and then we may never see her again from what I saw we don't need to go ahead Elizabeth so can you just um thank you for your comment I wonder why if that could you comment on that John and Jennifer because you're bringing it to us when it sounds like according to Mark we shouldn't be hearing it yeah what I would say is um to to do it that way and I think I think probably Jennifer I don't want to speak for her but I think it would be uh at least I would um uh I think that that would be a good way to do it but it's it's not built into the code so what we could do is we could bring back a code provision that lays out specifically so that if there when you've got a dwelling unit determination you have a certain amount of time to if you don't like it to appeal the decision and then it ends there there's nothing else there so if somebody comes and says I have newly discovered evidence that was not available to me 5 years ago and I want to present that what I would like to see so that there's no confusion for this applic or any future applicants is that we build out a procedure in the code that sets out what the criteria is what is meant by newly discovered evidence what is meant by all of these things and that's what I would prefer be done which we could present to you all it's just not there and and your planning director doesn't have the ability to override a Village Council determination so but M thing that's concerns me most about this conversation and is that we're being asked to make a decision on something that apparently according to our code and again I'm not a code expert I I I just am not um I mean how how is it that we're even seeing this if it doesn't if we're not allowed I mean if our code if if what Mark says is true why why is it even here why are we even being because if we because it was a council determination before and so if the if anybody is going to override it would have to be the council I mean I agree doesn't provide well the decision tonight is is uh the planning director decided that she couldn't make the decision she didn't evaluate the merits there's just nothing in the code that lets her do what the applicant requested so she's appealing that determination yeah so she wants us to over the applicant is asking us to override that there's nothing in the code that gives us that Authority why are we having this conversation if the code doesn't allow us to do that because she has the right to appeal a planning director's determination and her determination was I don't have the authority to do this and my recommendation is I don't see it in the code and I think that if the if the Village Council wants to allow for something like this whether it's for um this applicant or any future applicant that direction be given to staff for us to bring back a code uh amendment that would set forth very specific guidelines and a very specific procedure as to how this is done so that we're not doing it on the Fly um like this you know I I feel like we need to defer this because there's a lot of information for me to process I'd prefer not to make this decision tonight because what you just said is a lot and it's you know 9:15 and and this was not like well well I think I feel like we're behind the eightball we don't have enough information it's just frustrating I I think that the right thing to do would be to deny this and then but with leave to the applicant to come back once the code has been amended I I don't have enough information to make that decision tonight because it's I might I'm after thinking about it um I I mean I I can't think about this on the Fly it's a lot cuz it like you know could we have an analysis of that I I don't know how does this affect I'll I'll jump on on on the bandwagon with that the particular part of the code that the applicant wants us to review has an inherent defect in it that is to her very great disadvantage and that is that it does not uh take into account properties that were built before building and Zoning was required starting about 1960 in other words it requires you to produce a permit to prove something well what if your property was built before permits were required you can't do it it's impossible and our code doesn't address that I think this would be a nice opportunity while we're talking about a motion for reconsideration or something like that to go in and fix it if you would like to see an example of how it could be done you can look at the county code because they used to have the exact same thing we have and they fixed it by adding other things to account for this problem and there as we go into Redevelopment we're going to have more and more properties that are going to be built before codes or before permits were required and and the standards then were either non-existent or very relaxed although we've taxed people for these properties and these uses for decades and then when we ask them to prove something they can't because the thing we're asking for never existed so to me I think this is a nice opportunity to clean up a mess and and to do the right thing by Miss eer she's shown us something new I hadn't seen before and I'd love to give it to her but I don't feel comfortable by setting a bad precedent for those who might come after her in a similar situation vice mayor Mahoney okay all right Henry do you want to say anything or you want Barbara to I would like to listen to the applicant okay Barbara Bobby yeah um I just wrote something out which is kind of what explains it and when you guys talk about coming back and putting another application in I'd like that explained as well because Jennifer told us to put the application in which we did so I'm not sure why we're putting another application in evidence along with the fee and the evidence we did that but I'm just going to read what I wrote real quick um here to talk to to the Village to reconsider the incorrect decision made previously on our legally established dwelling units my parents were older and did not question the decision at the time the 8un motel was built in 1953 and two units were destroyed in hurricane Donna in 1960 in the 1980s my dad turned the remaining six into three they already had doors between the units making them adjoining units when my dad converted him there was no reason to think that he would lose the other three just by opening the doors between them the other building on the property burned down which is why we were trying to establish what was on the property when the council gave us the two units for the burned building my parents being elderly didn't question the apartments having only three building rights that wasn't even part of the question we never gave up the building rights for the other three which we should still have and we're asking Council to grant us the other three tdrs the building is still as it was in 1953 minus the two units demolished in Hurricane Donna the six are still there okay so Barbara how many are you asking for how how many did the council give you before they gave us two for the building that burned down and they gave us three for the apartments that are there today so you're asking that was five we're asking for the other three the other three the other three so that would be a correct total all right so we can make a decision on this tonight because you're putting it for forward so we can't obviously make it otherwise we wouldn't be asked to never mind okay okay Henry would you like to say I'm I'm not clear how can we go forward with this you well let me just say something I I'd love to do it but I I don't feel good about it I I can tell you right now I had a talk with Mr Quick and to Mr Cole today I can tell you that there's properties right now in the village okay that were had Motel units that were never accounted for in this Village there's some on This Island right here okay that the village actually owned the property okay there's units right here on this island there's some there's more on Lura mumi that's south of her okay that were not counted when the village came in they were not given those TDR rights like Plantation yach Harbor and I had this conversation today with Mr Quick and Mr Cole that we need to be proper and fair to the people in this community we need to go back back and revisit these things okay and the village can benefit from several I mean I don't know how many units to one I was talking about whether it's eight or what but and like Mr Quick and Mr Cole said we could monetize that all right I I think you're 100% right there's a lot of things out there there's evidence of it there's people remodel things they discover things that they didn't know that they had or didn't understand that it was valuable but our code does not allow for them we can't give it to them because of the way that it's written it has these unbelievably High burdens that if if you have to produce a permit for something built be like this before a permit was required you can't do it I think we should fix that to cover what you're talking about to cover what they're talking about not only to make it easy for them but everybody else who's coming for it because these valuable rights are going to come up to us for us again and again as people start to redo their properties and let's fix it in the com plan but make the decision tonight but we can fix that in the comp plan Elizabeth hold up I want Henry to say something cuz he knows and then I'm going to say something cuz I only lived a half a mile away from this and I grew up right there and I know that property extremely well Tony Hammond knows it very well Sharon knows it very well uh you know to me I just I feel bad for people that and and they they've already paid a fee to come in here you ask why it's here okay they paid a fee and they're here and then we're going to make them but go ahead well no the thing is is I know what their home was like but the thing is I this is going to sound horrible I agree with Mark that there is a problem so can we maybe go back address the problem don't charge them the fee can we do that I'm all in favor of way and that way it's done right they get what they deserve and we fix the problem instead of saying no which I don't want to do cuz I know what their home look like I don't want to say no either I know you don't but you have a problem with the code so let's see how fast we can fix it don't charge them to do whatever is to put it legal because you're saying it's not legal and that way they get what they deserve but but again it wouldn't be presented to I'm assuming it wouldn't be presented to us if we couldn't make a decision tonight so so in fact we by the fact that we're sitting here having the conversations on our tab we should be able to make a decision about this the decision is whether or not we have the Jennifer had the authority to to make her decision but so maybe she so if she didn't have her Authority then okay now it's if we approve this if we approve this we're going to open something up for Jennifer that's not covered by the code and then she's going to have to wing it based on our conversation that's not how John did you bring this to us if that's the case there's nothing that prohibits you from from considering it tonight there there is not guidance on it but there's also nothing that prohibits so if somebody comes forward and says I have newly discovered evidence there's nothing in the code that addresses that so that was why I said that if we could bring some criteria in the code that way we can address so that you all know exactly what the criteria would be but there's there's nothing in the code either there's also nothing in the code that prohibits you from uh considering newly discovered evidence on a on a decision you that was well I say you you as Council not didn't even make the decision that's what I I mean number years ago come on that state let's fix it right it won't take much a huge amount of time they've waited this long what's a few more months I this is eerily reminiscent of the conversation I just tried to initiate about our zoning problem do you see any similarities I mean let's all right but can we give Mr Rosenthal a chance to speak Elizabeth okay you know Henry please I am just making a comment I would like to bring your attention to the fact that there are some similarities to the zoning problem that we're having and I'm thank you for allowing me to do I acknowledge the similarity thank you very much we can always look for problems with the code the comp plan and everything else going back way back when the problem these people have had going over years and years and years and years is predicated on groups of people like ours sitting here right now and all of a sudden we're going to have to make an arrangement to say yes apparently the the language is not there for us to say yes I'm under the impression of hell with the language you've done what you want to do I know you're going to to me but I'm just going to say it enough is enough after a while enough is enough and I'm in favor of the passing the applicant and but comes to a vote I'm going to vote Yes because enough is enough these are people have been here for all their lives their parents built it I know the number of units were there want me to tell you why play cards in there used to play cards there I played cards there you're damn right my dad with her dad that's exactly right I didn't know that until not too terribly long ago anyway I mean you you can have all the rules and regulations that you want but at some point in time is the government is responsible for this problem and I don't want to be a part of a government that acts against people like this in our town so that's it thank you so Henry with that said Marne is there any other public comment for this van Cadenhead and potentially Tony Hammond if you have a question for just reminder it's for those in support first okay come on Van or Tony come on go ahead well you've already done what I came to do and that was to verify the fact that yes those lots were there those those apartments were there there's no doubt about it I was here I walked on the the slab where those units used to be after Hurricane Donna right after that because uh and I took my marine biology classes and did some field work out in front of there so yeah I'm I'm very familiar with this pie of property uh you know sitting on the OPA I look at this and I listen to what you're talking about and I think okay is there not a way to do both is there not a way to say okay let's let's make this happen and the same breath figure out a way to develop an ordinance that will prevent this from happening and protect us in the future because I agree with Mark you need to you you can't throw Jennifer under the bus by leaving her to have to make these decisions so um figure out a way to let it move forward and and and do it that's fair and Equitable to the community and to the property ords thanks thank you Tony Van Well I'm going to bring you the same historical uh perspective that uh the preacher just did uh there were there lindamar motel with six units you know that two two duck destroyed in hurricane Donna but the the way that Barbara described it six units and instead of having six units they decided to to close the doors and make three units that were bigger and that's that is what we're trying to undo tonight and that shouldn't be that hard to undo I mean that's it's understandable and and it's it's a historical fact that uh uh they attested to Tony attested to I'm sure that uh that Sharon if she wanted to come up here and uh and speak at the podium she could attest to it too because um there's no reason that this can't be solved tonight there's no reason for them to have to do another permit and go through a bunch of rigar roll let's just solve it tonight solve it tonight with a vote and then allow uh Miss chatau Brian to go on and and uh uh fix the the so it doesn't happen again so so uh you know I would I would urge you to to uh listen to Henry and listen to the eers and listen to me you can listen to me buddy I'm here but okay but give give us the vote give us the vote tonight and give us the right answer thank you very much thanks Henry all right Marne is there any other public comment no okay all right Council do uh I hear a motion from I make a motion to approve I'll second it all right Marne would you uh call the rooll please we have to make a comment about that okay I I I want to vote Yes for this but I'm going to vote no on the procedural aspect and I I think that we're we're making a decision based upon our our based upon the applicant we know them we all like them they've been a part of our community for 70 years or more I believe everything that they put in their application it's true but it's a very slippery slope and you're making you're making an exception for somebody that the law does not clearly allow that is going to set a bad precedent what if somebody comes in here next week or next month with a similar application are you going to go with that are we giving Jennifer The Authority now to make these decisions to to open these things back up without coming before us are we going to do that can you clarify that Mark Mr Quick just said there's nothing preventing us from voting on this tonight did I hear you right Mr Quick move on we have yeah and if you would like for the the planning director to have the authority to analyze um uh applications where there is newly discovered evidence we could I mean that would require a code change to allow for that if you'll put that in tonight's motion that she can do that I'll go I'll vote Yes for it okay that would be consistent well that's what Tony said you're you're mixing substance with procedure so what I'm saying is if Jennifer gets an application for reconsideration from a very old or very new uh one that was previously denied and it has new information she has the authority to decide that in her own discretion that's what you're saying if you want to approve that I'll vote Yes right now okay so anyways let's uh we Marne we we have a motion in a second would you please call the role vice mayor Sharon Mahoney yes council member Henry rosenal do do we not have sorry do we not have discussion I I don't think we finished our discussion sorry Henry oh I don't know I'm very happily say yes okay so as a point of order I don't think we're done with our discussion but we're in the middle of taking a vote could someone help me understand that the the I started the discussion before we started taking the vote no you did it after but the the the motion the the vote the vote has been called I don't think okay I I don't maybe I'm confused myself but you had a a motion in a second I thought we you we had a motion in a second and then the floor was open for discussion and I think I started the discussion I called the I asked M call the role and then you said well you're the mayor and you're in charge I get that but I think we all have an opportunity to discuss that under the rules you do go ahead I so if we haven't finished it I just if if Elizabeth wants to say something great if y'all are done and want to vote let's vote okay so again I just need a little Clarity for the as a point of order what's going on here are we discussing are we voting because I we we had moved on to voting and it was a motion to approve the um the resolution that I'm just concerned that Jennifer is being put in a super unfair position where now people are going to call up and say oh I saw what the council did the other night here's some new information can you approve this for me if she approves something and y'all don't like it you're going to go for her neck her head let me ask you the reason that this is or I guess this is for Jennifer and John the reason that this is coming to us is because Jennifer doesn't believe she has authorization according to what she's reading in the code to overturn old Decisions by making this vote tonight it she's presumably doesn't change her interpretation of the code why did I have to explain that I don't know why I just that's what we're voting on we're not voting on the substance of the facts look at the resolution that's in the materials all right let's see can you help me understand that John because I'm it's late and I'm I'm could you help me understand that it's let me find oh you know I mean if what if if based on what Mr Quick just said Mark he said there's nothing to he's right he is right from voting on this right now but if what you're saying is that you're reading this resol this this resolution as authorization and can you tell's decision was that she couldn't she couldn't consider a a a an to reconsider new evidence on an old vote that was her decision she said she couldn't do that we're voting that says that she can we could you that let me just say Mark is correct that is correct that's right could you okay help says the director's interpretation of the code is or is not supported by the facts presented the facts presented are did she have the authority to deny this application you're saying no she didn't have the she didn't she couldn't consider it because there's nothing in the code you're saying that she can that's okay you want to do that great where is can you where is that it's under section two findings of fact it says the director presented written recommendations of the staff and the director interpretation of the code is or is not supported by the facts granting of the appeal is or not is is or is not supported by the facts and documents presented so the question before us is not whether they're entitled to their eight units I think that they are the question is did she have the authority to deny the application so then if that if his interpretation is correct then are you bringing us another the another ordinance to allow these allocations to be awarded if you say that I have the authority then no I would not bring you another ordinance I would make the decision if you say I don't have the authority then probably bring you another ordinance if you want to give her the authority I'll vote right now yes happy to do it but what we're saying then is that you know I don't do you understand this yeah I'm gonna just ask Mr Quick to clarify if we give Jennifer The Authority as Mark said I agree what Mark just said that we give her the authority that she wouldn't have to bring this back to us Mr Quick can you help me understand that yes if if if the council approves it gives it gives the planning director Mr deian the authority to make the determination uh whatever her determination is she will then obviously convey to the applicants um if the applicants are unhappy with it for some reason they could appeal that decision back to the council if she gives them if she approves the three I suspect you will never see this again and everybody will move on if if it's of two then it may come back Mr Cole do sure and the thing that Councilman Greg was pointing out is that if you give Mr deban the authority to make the determination there may be others who will come to her with evidence of other units and Miss deoban would be able to make those determinations as well and that would not requ ire or generate a referral back to council it would be handled at the staff level and as was highlighted there's a potential that you may or may not agree with one of those decisions but you would not have a role in that determination under this landscape if approved tonight that's I wrapping it all together exactly have to vote no but why I I guess you know that I I would just say that I did not understand what I was voting for and I'm sorry that in our briefing we didn't get to that um I will try to be more thorough next time so no I'm going to vote no okay so voting no for this because Mr Quick do we need to change our motion to where we I mean vice mayor Mahoney's already voted yes Henry's already voted yes and then Mark we had discussion so do we need to change our motion on this or not can we go forward wait wait wait Ju Just to be clear if we vote Yes then Jennifer the next step is for Jennifer to to evaluate this information and then render a decision it doesn't give them the units tonight right correct the decision that they appealed was the planning director's decision that have the authority so if we don't want to do that how do I vote no okay no easy no we were appealing the we were appealing the prior decision not Jennifer no you can't appeal the prior decision from 2005 that was 19 years ago that was appealed to the council in 2005 five and they made a decision what came now was an application and the planning director said I don't have the authority to do this that's the decision that was appealed and so if the council approves this it gives the authority to the planning director and she can approve or deny the application based upon the the evidence presented thank you but would that would be not only this but giving her the authority in the future I don't no that it doesn't give her the authority in the future that council member Greg was asking you to do that this only gives her the authority on this specific item but Rob Cole just said that you would be setting you would potentially be setting a precedent for people in the future to come and and just go straight to Jennifer if if if there was a motion to add that to allow for future as well this is dealing solely with this appeal this application as I had mentioned I would like it to be put into the code so that this is all all spelled out hold up Van Henry make the changes after the vote to satisfy the future agree but you can't you can't I can do anything I want we actually cannot direct Jennifer to make a decision one way or another I'm not directing her to do anything at all all I'm saying is finish with the vote tend to the code to allow her to in the future make decisions of this kind if that's what you're after I don't think she needs it she shouldn't need it but if you feel she does deal with it after we finish this vote and be be on our way done so to be clear if someone comes in tomorrow with a decision from 2010 and they have new evidence and they file the exact same application that the eers filed right she's going to deny that why because we're telling her she only has the authority to do it for this one tonight so we so she we making a special exception to the law for one person no Mark never mind that doesn't sound fair it doesn't sound clean and and so everybody should be treated the same way under the law I I Mark I've always said that well we're not doing that tonight well you that's your opinion it is thank you good for you all right let's move on she's the playing director I don't know what her her uh boundaries are I mean you are the planning director the the issue here you make a good decision or a bad decision you are the person to do it then give her the authority why she need the authority she's already got it because the the reason why she need it is that the prior planning director made a decision that was appealed to the council and the council overrode that the planning director cannot then come back and override the council's decision on that that's that's what the issue would be unless you give her some sort of authority to do that based upon some set of criteria we we didn't appeal the former decision they never appealed it yeah it it was appealed that's how it got to the council it had to have been that's that's how it got it was just now appealed oh so wait a second okay I'm sorry it was in 2005 it was but it was it was a council decision right so a planning director cannot override a council decision unless the person's given the authority that's what we were told and she said that's why it would have to come back before the council and the council could overturn it sorry I didn't realize in 2005 you just went straight to that so are we giving her the authority to override the council are we giving her the authority to reconsider this to override the last council is that what we're voting on tonight yes for this specific applicant yes and and council member Rosenthal has asked after the vote that um what if someone else comes week with a compelling case like this are you going to do the same thing I mean this is a slippery slope I want to say excuse me Elizabeth excuse me van I want to say that that the planning director deferred making a decision because she didn't feel she had the authority and she kicked it to you you five people have the authority you should be you should be the deciding factor in this okay because you are the ones that are making the decision you're halfway through a vote and yet you're not going to let the vote finish please let the vote finish thank you and and that's what I have a problem with we I asked Marne to call roll and and because we had a motion in a second and then Mark you want to discuss and Elizabeth jumped in Sharon's are voted yes Henry's already voted yes do you know what you voted for we we are not being given enough information to make an intelligent decision John do you have a way to solve what is what are the issues at hand is there a way that you can help us understand this better because it's confusing I think for can you say solve it for tonight or solve it for the future solve it for tonight and the future what would that look like so the the future would be give us direction to allow us at our I mean we're recommending that that in order to deal with that we bring back a code amendment to allow to accommodate these types of issues in the future um the choice today is um you can approve this which would kick it to Jennifer and she will analyze it and then they will go through the process like they would or you can deny it as council member Greg said without um uh without prejudice for them to be able to apply when we come up with a new code provision or you could justy all together I mean the clean if you want to move forward quickly the most expeditious way I would say approve it let Jennifer make her decision and like you said if she approves all three you you never even hear from them okay but my question is what Mr Cole said does that give her in the future the power to not bring things like this to the council for her just to make a decision not if if the only vote is on approving this resolution no if there is if there is a larger more encompassing motion that that delegates that to her then it would but if if the motion that's currently on the table is to approve this and no it would not give her the ability for a new applicant to come in and deal with it thank you John okay so Mar Marne we have you've already asked vice mayor Mahoney who made the motion she said yes Vice uh uh councilman Rosenthal was the second and he said yes would you finish the roll call please council member Mark Greg I'm going to vote no on the process but if it comes back for substance I'll likely vote Yes so no council member Elizabeth Jolan yeah I'm voting no as well substance yes but this no and mayor buddy pen yes motion passes three to two it's done okay all right thank you thank you guys well the thing is you haven't gotten it yet you haven't no I understand and and Jennifer doesn't has we have we did not vote to give those Awards we're leaving it entirely up to Jennifer whoever we voted to give Jennifer the discretion to make the decision right so we vot who knows it's who knows what's going to happen I mean quick would you help me understand can I ask do we have the uh Authority or the discretion direction of council to bring back a proposed code amendment to uh accommodate this type of scenario in the future at least just for consideration yes I mean you can vote it down if you want but that way at least we can have lose all this you got it seriously okay all right just to be clear this now goes to Jennifer and she makes the decision yes yes it does and so we yes it does that's what you just voted on I don't know if you understood what you voted on but you voted to override Jennifer's decision that she had no Authority you didn't give them the units I don't think you understood that motion to approve yeah Sharon made the motion to approve it and Henry made the motion I mean second it to approve the resolution the three units no that that is not yeah it was a mo the resolution that was presented was was an appeal of whether she had the Authority or not so it's going to kick to Jennifer she will make the decision and like I said assuming she approves the three you guys will never hear of this again if it's something less than they may have no control over what she decides it's entirely up to Jennifer that's what we voted for correct we had we have nothing to do with it anymore correct all we have right now unless they appeal it that right correct yes are we done I think we're done cinnamon let's go home thank you Bobby the next take care next tab is tab J again this we are still in quasa judicial um the resolution is a resolution of the Village Council of is Mara Village of violence Florida uh request for public hearing relating to the planning director's notice of intent to issue site plan approval with conditions for property located at 103 Sunshine Boulevard on Plantation key having partial number 0043 47- 000000000000 as legally described herein providing for the transmittal of this resolution to the Florida Department of Commerce and providing an effective date Jif oh yeah I'm sorry um Council before we begin can you please disclose your exart take Communications on this one let me I was everybody understand what this is J tab J 103 are you going to call our names or do you just want us to tell are you call are you calling is someone calling names for the experte communication yeah Mr Mayor if you can call that commun anybody else nope no who this this is a him yes I spoke to the gentleman who lives next door we got some letters that were emailed to us that but other than that I didn't talk to anybody I spoke with Socrates that's that I did too and the letters would be part of the um the record too good evening Council here this evening for a public hearing on 103 Sunshine bouevard Jose Martinez submitted an application for site plan approval to allow for the modification of the existing site to include an outdoor walk-in food cooler and a nice room and a shed to serve as the business known as Ham seafood located at 103 sunshine Boulevard on February 14th 2024 The Village mailed notices to Property Owners within 300 ft informing them of the director's intent to issue a site plan approval having determined that the project had met all the requirements for site plan approval honor about March 6 2024 the Planning Development Services Department received a request for public hearing from Paula Albert France at 103 Mocking Bird Road tavanir pursuant into the village code of ordinance the public hearing before the Village Council was scheduled adjacent property owners notified and the hearing was properly advertised and property was postered the property is approximately 11,580 ft in size the property is located souths side of Sunshine Boulevard at the intersection with Overseas Highway the property is zoned Village Center and within the mixed use flum Zone flum designation the property is a corner lot that abuts single family homes across the street is a recreation open space owned by The Village the use is a permitted use within the Village Center zoning District pursuant to the section 3022 215 of the code of ordinances of the village of Isam marada applications for site plan review may be considered by the planning director for approval approved with conditions or denial based on standards in the code Chapter 30 Land Development regulations when considering a site plan application the director and the Village Council shall consider the following factors the site plan is consistent with the purposes goals objectives and policies of the comprehensive plan and the site plan complies with all the applicable provisions of the chapter again in your packet is the analysis based on the comp plan objectives and how it complies with the site plan um of provisions of chapter 30 uh it should be noted that since the time of the staff's review and the notice of intent to approve the property is under code violation for habital liit habitable living space within the building and is being investigated for violation of the noise ordinance The Village code prohibits issuance of permits if there is an active code case on the property we would not have issued the notice of intent to approve if it were the case at the time also the Trap storage of traps has since encroached into the required parking spaces and drive AES and if the council were inclined to approve the site plan at this time all those traps would need to be removed staff has reced the reviewed the request for S plan approval and determined that the S plan is consistent with the goals objectives and policies of the comprehensive plan and complies with the applicable provisions of the code of ordinances staff originally issued a notice of intent recommended to approve with six conditions however based on the current fact staff recommends The Village Council deny the proposed site plan application by adoption of the attached resolution okay Mr Quick we G to we can uh open public comment no yeah you you have um uh the person who file the appeal um she would be considered the uh the applicant okay if she's here Miss um uh Miss Paula Albert France I'm not sure if she's present or not you're the one who requested the public hearing so that's why it's yeah yeah you're not the applicant of the proper you're not the property owner though thank you for hearing me um my name is Paula Albert France I live at 103 Mockingbird road which is adjacent to the property who was trying to ham constr uh Fish Company who was trying to get the walk-in coolers the ice room and the shed um I'm here because this really doesn't show the whole picture of what's going on on the property I have been the taxpayer and owner I bought the property over 30 years ago from my family and uh hurricane Donna rings a bell to me because my great-grandparents lost their home to Hurricane Donna on low mumi and I've been coming here since I was born so um I'm glad that you approve it or we're looking to approve that family that was just here before us um so the more to this picture is that the amount of square footage being used on the property currently it's a very small commercial property which happened to be built by my great grandfather I bought the home that he built the property was separated by my uncle so I'm very um aware of the previous use of the property as a commercial building it was a retail business he was a plumber as well and since then um Victor purchased it from my uncle and he has utilized it and rented it out to various people being gift shops and um he had a United Parcel Service coming out in and out of there it also was used as Driftwood gift shops that the Longos used to run out of that so ham he's a very hard worker Jose and I have had many discussions over the years and I have asked and requested um all the things that I submitted in the report to you so this will be no surprise um he's not just a retail company he's also a wholesale and lobster trapping facility he's a very large Enterprise and he's running this at of a very small location that's why I do not believe we should give permission for more large coolers he has two he wants two walk-in coolers the ice room the shed Etc and the amount of items and Machinery is negatively impacting our community because he AB buts on a residential Community he's in a unique situation so the ways in which the additional items requested in my opinion don't comply with the is marada Village comprehensive plan I submitted to you and writing um is in the following ways uh first policy 1-2 uh 4.1 number four promote safe and pedestrian movement this does not traps are piled on neighbors borders he has many many traps 300 to a thousand traps and they're so high it's in danger it endangers people that walk around the corner people that are cyclists and Vehicles they're in the driveway in the route that they expect to have their retail business come in and having them on the property line seven and 11 traps high is a danger and if something God forbid were to happen I have brought it to everyone's attention uh number six avoid encroachment we're supposed to avoid encroachment of commercial activity into residential neighborhoods there's so many things there's a mobile RV home there with visitors there's a house boat on blocks there's a golf cart Wave Runner lobster traps like I said 300 to a th000 coming in there's a workstation for his workers to work on the lobster traps which I'm sure he needs but not on this small parcel there are additional trucks under awnings uh I'm not even listing everything that is there there's just no room room which then shows us the encroachment on the side of my home from J 4th of July until June has been a trailer a boat a large boat trailer parked on the right of way it's not my property but it's the right away on the side of my home and it's storage if we were in Monroe County rules it would not be allowed to stay there this length of time this is just storage it's not something that comes and goes his vehicles have been there for weeks and months at a time a red truck that had flat tire I'm sorry I can't move it because it has a flat tire that's just not acceptable it looks a mess it is just it's an eyesore for the community it's the first thing you see when you come around the corner so countless other vehicles have been there for weeks and months at a time because there's too many things on the property thus pushing him to go and utilize the right away it looks awful it brings down our property values and additionally I pay a landscaper to cut my hedges and he cannot fit 3 Ines in between where the trailer and parks are as trucks are parked and my fence in order to cut my hedges so then I can't keep my property up to Specs which brings me to aesthetically pleasing commercial number eight I pretty much told you that it's not aesthetically pleasing with the commercial um B the on of my home or on his property as well we're supposed to limit outdoor storage by approving this we're not limiting it we're adding more outdoor storage the appearance and limit should be considered because it is in a residential area uh 4.2 says the impacts of the business should be equal and less and that's what I was trying to talk about before generated by previous structures in use so it was a plumbing business it was retail reality where we sold Lots my family previously not myself there was an upholstery business that was the other one I was thinking of and two gift shops that I know of so as a retail business a wholesale business and a lobster trapping business it generates an intensity of commercial activity in the residential area and we're supposed to be limiting this so that's why I'm asking you to deny it we shall limit it the use of high intensity uses and with the three areas that I have mentioned I'd like to conclude in my opinion the request should be denied as a retail wholesale and lobster business is just too large for this location in the amounts of machinery and trucks is needed to run this it forces the encroachment on residents onto the right away is aesthetically unsightly brings property values down and is dangerous in the way of the high uh traps on the property thank you thank you Marne is there any other public comment we have one public comment in opposition request public comment okay go ahead hi my name is Andy Dutton I live at 150 Sunshine Boulevard in tavanir I live within 300 ft of Ham seafood and did receive two notices um from the county in regards to this uh public hearing and and their process involved um as I sort of researched this thing I did see the the big flyer um that came out the memo that talked about uh the site plan as I see the site plan on paper it looks fantastic it's you know good for business someone's Vision someone moving forward um but it really doesn't tell the whole story I think Paula certainly highlighted a bunch of things but as I jumped into it um you know this is designated a multi-use facility um and with that you know the encroach M um and impact on residents um the residential area isn't supposed to be happening to this ex extent certainly that uh plot of space which is county space uh right next to 103 Mockingbird has continually had um trailers boats uh trucks uh overnight storage day use all that goes with it uh unsightly but you know um certainly just not with the values that go with uh your definition as far as multi-use second area is the zoning piece as far as uh Village and um that Village VC piece that goes with um you know being part of this community and as they um highlighted you know aesthetically you know you're supposed to be pleasing you are supposed to be able to go by there and be proud of that property at this point in time you know I just don't see that happening and it's probably related to the storage piece uh there's um unlimited amount of storage happening as far as we'll say uh chillers probably that are no longer in use big blue pieces of metal and then just um you know crates and and whatnot so there's a lot of that outdoor temporary storage um or permanent storage that I don't think you would approve of so much so you know those are the two big points I guess that I sort of bring to the table um I would love this property to follow that site plan and you know get rid of the extra pieces as far as RV trailer to the houseboat to the broken down truck there's a lot of things that could be improved I just don't know if it's written into your ordinance as far as when you're giving them approval if you're giving them approval for these extras it will be a problem if you're not sort of dealing uh with the problems and their extras that are currently on their property thank you for your time okay thank you Mr Mayor I don't know if the person or entity who filed for the site plan approval is here but it would be appropriate um for him or her to uh uh to speak if if they so chose we need to extend yeah we need to extend the time sorry thank you yeah thank you Sharon for reminding what do we go 30 minutes all right all right so does app are you you want to come up uh did you just say Mr Quick the yeah I mean I don't know if if he's the person who filed for the site plan approval but if he is okay then he it would be appropriate for for him to speak yes okay if he wants obviously just tell us who you are and whatnot okay U my name is oose Martinez um I am the owner of Ham seafood I've been in the property going on three years now in August I did a a lease to own with Victor the original owner as you guys know I've been in the business for many years as a commercial fisherman and like you guys have spoken you know the spaces here 0.02% of is marada is left as a fishing uh commercial fishing uh trap you know anything that has to do with what everything that I do so at the point that I got this property one of the things I'm going to go ahead and uh the uh Village Center zoning District which is VC um there's a b number 14 says outdoor storage and display areas on vacant Lots fronting US1 pursuant to Article 5 division 8 of this chapter also one of the things initially they said I couldn't do a fish market here but if you look at the Village Center um the uses of the property it's very clear it says food store including retail sales of fresh and frozen seafood crustations and mullus that's exactly what we're doing we're actually have five star r in Google 149 reviews all perfect not one that describes what Paula just mentioned um the property is our property as well which we're actually letting the village use as since there's no sidewalk there's constantly people in uh golf carts there's constantly people all the kids that go to school go through my property and we're very very lenient on that and we're actually risking our own business we're constantly moving you know forklifts we're moving I I didn't have the traps initially but since one of the things that we can do in this property is commercial fishing uh that's been my passion my whole life and as you guys know it's coming to basically an Extinction so I'm proud I'm passionate about what I do we're very good we've give great service in the community if you notice the the area yeah it might look a little bit you know there's obviously a lot of stuff going on because that's what it takes nowadays with the with you know the cost on everything to be able to pay the bills I had to invest in into this Lobster business in order to have lobster for our locals you know fresh cot wild cot chemical-free Lobster instead of all the stuff that's coming in from can from Nicaragua and all these other countries so I another one of the uses which is very clear here it says manufactur assembly repair maintenance and storage of commercial fishing traps and Nets that is in reference to what they're speaking about with these traps right so uh it also there's another one D says Redevelopment of existing outdoor storage um the city wanted me to go ahead and do a site plan on the property which I don't know if you guys do you guys have the site plan as the gentleman stated it's a very professionally done by an architect and and also the survey of the property I have it here so which hadn't been done in a long time and it did cost me a lot of money from the moment that I got this property I had to make it pre-phased in order to F to be able to run my ice machines and it's basically I'm a small business I'm not kilargo Fisheries that has generations of you know hand Downs I've had to build all this on my own working hard like she says and like everybody that has gone through that property for the last three years can realize that all we've ever done is helped our community we take care of the kids that come and go to school we have never had any type of the issues that she's explaining no trap has ever fallen on anybody nothing has ever created any type of problems for our community that's why they had already approved the site plan and they had approved the survey and 28 letters were sent out and only one person is here which is against it she was the only one that actually is against it all my other neighbors 95% of them have seen what a great uh um change we've made to the community we we work 15 20 hours a day 7 days a week in order to keep this Place running we're open from 9:00 to 6:00 we work on holidays we do everything possible to provide fresh seafood for our customers the Chinese as you guys know have gone come in and taking over the lobster business so if you don't have someone like me you're not going to have fresh Lobster you're going to have to deal with all the imported stuff from all these other third world countries that have these chemicals and all these things so all I'm trying to do is keep my passion going and keep providing fresh seafood for for our community um like I said you know Google is a very big thing if you guys take a second you can all look there's 149 five star reviews you know I can sit here and talk for hours and hours I've been listening to all you guys and it's been very you know successful and you know patience is something that we learn over the years and I've been patient I've been here three years every business here every restaurant we have a very small space in the building bus Unfortunately they all have outdoor coolers they all have outdoor freezers they all have all the coolers the freezers that we've bought and all the stuff that we've invested is all professional it's all approved by the city that's why we got to where we're at today there's already a freezer on the property which is a 40ft container which is a movable container could be put on could be moved it could be put on wheels I'm looking for any solution that we would need in order to run this business how could we run a seafood market without freezer how could we run a seaf market Guys Without a walk-in cooler how could we provide fresh local Lobster if the Chinese are outting all of us and paying ridiculous amounts of money and then what happens to us all our Lobster goes to China and then we have to eat all the chemical you know uh infused Seafood that they're providing us so I'm very proud of what I do and I'm a hard worker and I'm here to make you know to to to make the things work for all of us I obviously she's my neighbor I would like for her to be happy but as you see she's talking about the side of her property which is actually the city's property which we all pay taxes for which I understand is not something to keep permanent you know but if I have my boat the trailer she's speaking about is my the old car she's speaking about is my car and it's a 1970 that I bought that turns on and turns off it's just park right now the red truck that she's talking about is my truck the boats that are on the property are my boats and we're what that's what we do we're commercial fishermen and we're we're retailers I used to be in the wholesale business for many years but that's something that with the amount of profit that we made and the the economy the way it is I needed to find a retail store so I found this place and Victor's a very nice guy and we have been working together she's still speaking about a house Bild that that they've been trying to deal with that for the last 30 years and now she's bringing it into this which is already on the property and now she's just trying to open up more worms which realistically that's been on the property that has nothing to do with me uh the blue things that he's talking about they're called Vats that's where the lobsters go if I don't have a walk-in cooler where do I have to put my Lobster where do I have to put my fish I have to put them in Vats those are all these containers that Paula mentioned they're toads for lobster part of what you know what I plan to do eventually is to be able to put some live eventually possibly to keep some live lobster for the tourists and for our locals they want to come and buy some live lobster they can buy some live lobster from our property so nothing that I'm planning on doing or that I've you know submitted to the city is out of the ordinary it's a seafood market all I want is my freezer and all I want is my walk-in cooler and the ice machine initially none of this was supposed to be accepted on the property but like I said it says it very clearly here retail fresh food store includ including retail sales of fresh and frozen Seafood if this wouldn't have been one of the things of this property I would have never gotten into it because that's what I do I sell seafood I'm a professional fishmonger I've been doing it since I was a kid my mom has always supported me she actually has a full-time job Monday through Thursday and then she comes on Fridays to spend three days here helping me with the business helping me with the trip ticketing we report to the federal government we do everything from a through z you know I fish I pay I buy from the fisherman I buy from other fish markets all along the keys we're actually I'm a certified uh hup uh seafood processing plant as well the FDA in the State of Florida that plant is also a seafood retail FDA certified Market it just recently about four months so passed and everything that gets done there all the seafood that goes through my hands is through a professional that knows exactly what he's doing and knows exactly what he's providing to his clients and to the community I I was born and raised in Miami years ago I got a taste of the keys and I found the home away from home I'm an island person I come from Cuba you know my family fished in Cuba that's what we did for a living so it's in my blood and that's something that I always wanted to do and I got the opportunity to do it and I was actually down in Marathon for many years and now that I got my place here much closer I my passion was never gone and when I got this opportunity I realized wow I can make this happen and every you know every like I said all my every everyone is very happy with what we're doing that the lobster business wasn't something that I initially had I just invested into that last season actually two weeks before the season started why because I was having trouble supplying my customers and the the the city the mar um the keys with local sea with local Lobster because the the Chinese were buying all the Lobster off so I invested into this boat that was actually my Father's Day present so you guys can know what type ofe what type of worker I am that was my Father's Day present to myself a 1974 Stapleton lobster trap boat which initially I got a really good deal on and I wasn't even planning on doing the lobster business but eventually I realized I have the boat this is what I love to do I have the opportunity I have a property that I that's a Village Center commercial fishing property Why Not So eventually I decided and I invested and I got a little bit more traff drops and I killed myself just imagine what I went through as a as a as a person you know um getting into the business two months in okay hold on get Henry want yes I sympathize with you Ben wants me to turn it on he didn't say anything but I know he does if he's still here I don't know if anyway I sympathize with what you're saying I was in that business for 25 years I know what 12 hours a day looks like and feels like have you ever been served with any code violations um the the the the violations that they're talking about now are just recent violations that that just came up um everything that they've ever asked me to do I've been here for 3 years and but prior to what's happening right now have you ever been served with a code violation um that I can recall on this spe in this specific property um I mean stuff like for the motor home but it's in reference to what we're saying there's very small imagine we're fishermen we're not rich people we're low-income housing so we the one yeah has anybody formally walked into you and said you have to do this that or the other from either the county or the city um not that I recall but if there's anything that they have I've corrected it and fixed it right away and that's why we're here today Mr Rosen can I just clarified that code violations are served on the property owner not tenants so Cod I thought he was the he is not the property owner by record I'm in the process I leased a property with option to buy considering that I can do all these things which are part of what the property is designated for all right well thank you for uh excuse me mayor I don't know if everyone has made public comment that wanted to so I think there's some more public comment out there yeah before we Marne is there other you guys there others that want to speak yes okay yes I do have a couple um clarifications from his statement I can wait if that's preferred okay are you finish young man um I mean I like I said I can sit here and talk for but I basically down to what what we talked about manufactur assembly repair maintenance of storage of commercial fishing traps and it's a seafood restaurant uh food store including retail sales and frozen fish and crustations all right let let's give some of the other people a chance to speak no problem thank you thank you guys can I just quickly provide some clarity that um the property does not front on US1 it is not a vacant lot so outdoor storage and display areas are not a permitted use the manufacturer assembly of Nets and commercial fishing traps is a minor conditional use not a permitted use and Redevelopment of existing outdoor storage and displays area are a major conditional use okay all right uh can we have some others that want to talk comment are we for or against could we try to I think we have a process for that correct yeah I thought yeah I thought we were we're done I apologize so it's right now it's we're still on is there anybody who's still here to speak in favor and I apologize for there's no one signed up to speak in favor there is someone signed up to speak in opposition okay so it would be appropriate to call that person then okay well I think his mother wants to speak in favor I like to speak in favor okay all right go ahead go ahead I just want to confirm were you sworn in yes thank you well I just want to say that I I really would like you guys to consider what we're looking for to do in the property will avoid a lot of the problems that we have right now a lot of the storage that you see from the that you're walking by because if we had a cooler and we had a Walkin place where we didn't have to have all that stuff all over the property then it wouldn't be there that's the purpose of this meeting that's the purpose of everything we've done is to be able to make it so it's good so that it's presentable right now we're just trying to survive with all those you know what they call crates or whatever that's where we're keeping our product and it's not like a pair of shoes that you can put in a closet you have to have freezer and you have to have storage for it if we can get that done a lot of this is going to go away because it's going to be a good fish market and that's what we hope that we that you can do um one more thing eight months out of the Season these traps are in the waterit wait wait wait there's there's one person speaking we need to there there need to have a clean record one person speaks at and then and then that's the other thing that I wanted to mention the thing with the lobsters is is right now is is it it opens up in August most of the time they're in the in the ocean right now they we're outside because we had to take them out because the season ended and and otherwise you would have never seen any lobster traps and now now we're working on the new season that's coming but once get in the ocean they'll be out of everybody's sight for eight months a they're not they're only stored when you have to take them out for the 5 months that there's they're not in the way right now we already found a place where we took them and all the ones that she says we're standing out there are not there anymore uh we cleared out the the the parking lot so that we don't have that and we try to keep it as as neat as much as we can and as clean for every everything is open open there's we took pictures that we actually wanted to submit a that shows the the property I mean the everything I mean you do have um crates and you do have a lot of product but it's all stuff that we need so that we can either pull the traps we also we also buy from all the local guys that have fishing permits so a lot of the guys in the area they they really look up to us we buy their fish we buy their a lot of their um Lobster and we buy stone crap so we and they and they come every week every day they get if it's a fishermen they actually we give them if they need um bait and and Chum they take their bait they take their Chum they go they get their fish then they come back they bring us their fish we give them a trip ticket we sell the fish for them and they go on home cuz they you know we give them ice so you know we're there for a good reason everybody loves us I think that if you guys have a chance I would like for you guys to go on the website and look us up and see the reviews and you're going to see what people are saying about us in in Isa morala and I hope you guys really consider it and I thank you for your time thank you all right now uh Marne do we have John we we have people that want to talk that are opposing it yes anyone in opposition okay who who in here would like to speak that's opposing it soes esenberg do you want to speak well just have something brief to bring up today I left my home at 5:10 p.m. and all the lobster traps I was talking about were there Elizabeth hold on she's I think that there I think that we're out of order here and I think we care about that even though spoke already so want to hear what you have to say but yeah she spoke already we next up would be whoever signed up next yeah so we we need to let everybody have a chance here uh thank you good evening my name is Socrates Eisenberg and my wife and I and my family live at 106 Plantation Avenue and everything that she said is true they are hard workers but they're doing way too much in a very small location I live next door she lives next next door I live on 106 on the other Street that's a corner lot there on we're here she's here um December I've been a firefighter for 18 years my wife's been a nurse for 17 years so we both Ser the both served the community for many years um in December of 2023 I we've also lived in Moto County for 10 years before in kilargo now here in December of 2023 while looking to purchase the home from my father who owned it for 12 years I spoke with the neighboring business Jose about the noise coming from the refrigerator container and commercial ice machine and if there was anything we could do to help lessen the noise he said that it was a commercial property and there was nothing the county could do about it and that's the price that I pay for living next to a commercial property I didn't feel that that could be correct so I contacted senior code enforcement officer Carla deerra and she said that the container and everything else on the property was in violation and would eventually be removed in February I realized that Miss de was no longer working in The Villages I then started speaking to senior officer Paul minning I advised that the noise coming from the container as well as the sound of the ice crashing into the ice machine's container wakes us up at night and doesn't allow us to enjoy our property during the day Mr minning also advised me that the shed the RV and the ice machine and refrigerator shipping container were all unpermitted and would need to be removed on March 4th 2024 I sent video with audio of the noise with deciel readings to Mr mitting as he had requested after after reviewing his response was I spoke to my director our code does not have decel levels in it sorry I couldn't help you further The Village code that I found reads that the primary means of measurement shall be by ordinary auditory senses of a reasonable person with normal sensitivities I was then in advised to start calling local law enforcement and did so at different times of the day and night 4:00 in the morning 8 at at night 9:00 in the morning just to have it on body cam footage and record like I was told to do that it happens every 15 minutes for 10 minutes at a time or every 10 minutes for 15 minutes time depending on the temperature outside so far we haven't gotten into August yet when it's 150° which it will probably r running every 5 minutes irrelevant um on May 12th 2024 at 9:52 in the morning on a Sunday a sergeant from the Mono County Sheriff's Office stated in his report that the noise coming from the container of neighboring property is Extremely Loud and there was an odor of dead fish coming from the property on multiple occasions my wife has called me after midnight while I've been at work regarding the noise of partying and people yelling coming from the neighboring RV to avoid conflict I had never advised her to call police during those times in January of 2024 the RV was fin for being connected to city sewer this is going back to all the violations that he said that was never been connected never um please please in January of 2020 RV was fine for being connected I'm Sor Mr we need to have a clean record and we can't have shouting from the uh yeah no shouting from the audience please go ahead sir in August of 2021 the RV was noted as being used as an office and the commercial ice maker was noted that a permit would be required for it in January of 20122 after the fact permit for refrigerated container storage shed and electrical were both applied for in February of 2022 the container failed the electrical flood and all other inspections the permit is now listed as abandoned the container is still in full operation being supplied by 440 volts of electricity which frankly is not safe because it failed electrical and it failed flood inspection it failed all the inspections it's in June 2022 the complaint status was entered for the container not by me in April of 2023 the site plan was applied for I'm all for let me finish while I'm reading this business has been operating since 2020 with all the ongoing violations and complaints still open with without any correction made by the business owner or any enforcement applied by The Villages it is clear that this owner operates in complete disregard and disrespect for the health safety and residence of The Villages he also ignores codes and rules placed in in place by the V and feels that he is Untouchable I'm all for commercial fishing and that's why we moved here we love the traps we love the smell all that stuff low tide it's wonderful but what he's talking about a refrigerating container until last year that he had a boat a refrigerator container and he wants to put two of them on the property according to the S plan is needed for somebody like Publix that needs to buy wholesale and sell it again you don't need a refrigerator container a freezer a 240ft freezer to be able to catch Lobster and sell it to the locals in The Villages or in the keys or however um furthermore the Lobster Boat I have a 60-ft dock he's here on an L dock if I put I I out of courtesy plac my 35t boat here to allow him to use my dock to get in and out with his Lobster bat that he bought if I buy a second boat when I when I buy a second boat and I put it there his boat's not going to be able to get in and out but he's very uh savvy so I'm sure he'll figure out a way um and again like I said he was you know supplying locals with freshly caught food then there's a sh there's a another delivery truck that comes every so often that delivers frozen food into the shipping container and then it's resold to the whoever it's resold to so unless I never seen a boat deliver fish I've never seen a local deliver Seafood I've never seen anybody come and deliver anything except for that one monstrosity of a truck that parks in in in the street in front of my house blocks our driveway halfway and then delivers a couple pallets of seafood into the refrigerated freezer and then that's what he sells so if this is denied tonight which my question is to the council what will be done to remedy my situation because as of now my daughter started waking up sleep walking now because when the ice falls in the ice machine it falls from 10 ft in the sky into a refrigerated container that's 10 or 15 by 10 and it wakes her up at night it wake it my son has a hard time falling asleep due to the the I don't know if you've ever heard a refrigerator container or seen one it's made to be on a on a truck on the back of you on a on us one or you know on the highway it's loud if you look up what it is they running 80 to 82 DB I know we don't have a DEC ready in The Villages but if I play 80 DB right now we wouldn't be able to talk so that's all I have thank you for hearing me thank you for your time thank you yeah we need to extend again what do we want to do do we want yes push the she says she Sharon's asking if we can push the other couple items to another meeting instead of staying here it works for me I guess let's see how much long I think can we extend for another what it's 10:30 can we go 15 minutes John yeah of course and I think if uh if you're going to uh defer everything I think we would probably just request there's the second reading on the moratorium extension um uh if you all would request that you all would consider that that okay let's just move it along what I'm sorry John what else is left then there's two other ordinances there's an ordinance uh related to um uh was it lot area lot area variances and then an ordinance relating to the definition of fronting I move to extend to 11:00 okay yeah okay 30 minutes okay okay uh she John can can Paula go again can I just say four sentences it's your call Mr Mayor can we let her talk okay go ahead so I left my home today at 510 p.m. and all the lobster traps I was talking about were there so I'm sorry they were not moved that quickly uh secondly the two walk-in coolers that they're talking about they are 40 ft in length they're already there everything is on the property so if getting approval for these it's not going to make any difference with moving other equipment around because like I said everything that he's asking for already exists uh the canal is unbelievably packed with boats and the last thing it's the bottom line is just too large of a business to be on this small lot in this residential community thank you thank you all right any other public comment on this go ahead what I forgot to say before was yes he's a hard worker he works 58 hours a day seven days a week and his mom comes down every Friday and stays in the RV for 3 days and he works in 15 hours a day and stays in the RV 7 days a week that's all thank you okay Council I have something about that uh he's he is he is entitled to rebut yeah he's yeah come on got to the mic R is uh yeah you have to come up to the you have to come to the mic so that it's have a service animal which is a little French Bulldog and as you guys know the temperature outside is ridiculously hot and the main reason that RV has been there from the beginning when the city came and told talk to me about that I have a a letter from a doctor stating that the dog needs to be with me on the property and in order for the dog to be on the property the only place he could be since there's no building and the building is a seafood market and processing it cannot be in the building so the reason that RV is there is because the dog needs to be there with me on the property so just wanted to let you guys know that I do have a letter and that's why the RV has been there and it has never been connected to the Sewer as he stated that's a false statement maybe the previous owner there could have been but I was there since August of 3 years ago in August it's going to be 3 years so if you do the math on what he just said January 2020 we weren't here so we were never connected to the city and the the the city Al always told us that as long as it was not connected to the city we were going to be okay and this is also a drivable motor home that comes could come in and out of the property at any time so I just do want you guys to take that into consideration and that's the main reason why that RV that uh is on the property Mr Martin is can I ask you a few questions please yes um is the RV connected to uh electricity um Shore power or whatever you call it uh at the moment it's it's connected to short power and how about water uh water um there's a hose connected to the to it correct do your dog need water yes okay so you have to have water connected for your dog is that what you're saying correct yeah if not any humans occupy the building either as an office or business use or res the building the RB M when I'm on the property as you guys know we work 15 hours a day a lot of times I'm not forced to drive to Miami and there is a shower in the building of the property and yes I take a shower in the building and there's times that I do stay on the motor home yes okay so you do use it as a residence no I don't as a as a hotel room uh no I use it as a place to have my dog when he's with me and do you stay overnight I've stayed overnight but I don't stay over over 9 7 days a week like you said either way this RV I want you guys to consider this okay I I don't I don't need to know I just want to ask you a few questions but this RV is going to be mo I want I don't want you to answer questions unless I ask please we have a limited amount of time okay um so did you say you live in Miami yes that's my uh my mailing address is Miami so where does your mother stay when she comes to work for you she stays with us there in the property okay there's an upstairs Loft and there's she's occupying The Loft no well who lives in the stay with me it does somebody live in in the main building itself in The Loft no somebody doesn't live in the main building but we work hard there's times that we receive fish in the middle of the night and there's times that we stay up there you know sleep a couple hours take a shower we don't live there it's not our residence no okay um so are your traps kept up close to the property line like this other lady was testifying actually yeah um my neighbor Socrates he just he installed the camera literally pointing direct like he put it as high as he possibly could as you see he's making all types of Records I'm just asking do do you keep your traps close to the property line they just got moved there when I is that a yes when there was a problem with the traps being in the in the right of way of the people going through the property they got moved and they need to be put next to the boat to be loaded on the boat I I understand that I used to do it too as you heard me testify earlier and I'm very sympathetic to that but we have a setback and I don't know what it is let me let me finish please the minimum setback on your property as far as I can tell in the village is 5 ft for a permanent structure right or anything you don't get to do outdoor storage in the setback you can put Landscaping in there but I don't think you get to do outdoor storage plus that has to be done under a major or minor conditional use I forget which it is so those aren't supposed to be there all these traps are right next to the boat where I understand where they're at I'm I'm trying to tell you they they're not supposed problem well then if they need to be moved 5T we can move them well they're not supposed to be there at all unless you get permission from the village to do that I wasn't aware of that this now you're aware okay and now I'm going to move them okay very good that's we're making progress great that's what I'm here for but your building is not approved as a hotel room an RV campground or any other kind of temporary Transit use no problem that was a uh before 1990 that was residential that property was changed by The Village in 1992 right I've been here a while I'm familiar with it and I know he was in there so just saying you got a lot of stuff going on and you're making your neighbors unhappy and I don't want to do that I'm here to you're forcing us to pick winners and losers you got the solution and that's to take some of that stuff away I don't think you're allowed to have a storage container there without approval either I mean it it had been approved that's why it's been there 40 foot container that's a monster no no it's a freezer there's no permit on that that's why you're here in front of the board there was a you put it in without a permit you received a code violation for we want to an after the fact are you going to let me speak yes you received a code violation and the corrective action was to get an after the fact permit you applied for the permit and part of that was to get the site plan so that's why we're here today did and we did the site plan right that's why we're here today but the permit is not granted until this permit site plan is approved so that container has no permit it is not a permitted container okay but I did the site plan and the survey which you asked me to do so we can get it approved no problem that's why we're here because Mr Martinez I will tell you I've been I had a mobile mini set in front of my house and because I didn't have it tied down I got red tagged I understand that you see what I'm saying and I'm just looking at the pictures that are in our book there's no tie downs and I'm willing if if that is one of the options for me to tie it down all we need to I don't know but it has to be permitted and I know a lot of people like to put these store stuff in and they won't our building official they don't I don't know I I i' have to rely upon staff but well I'm willing to do whatever if we need to get it uh tied down to the floor that's something that's very simple we can get you need to make your neighbors happy okay you can make us happy we we'll approve it correct that's why yes that's why we the electric going into it yes all of that has to be permitted the building official has reviewed the site plan and I believe one of her comments was that they had to be tied down and comply with the Florida building code okay yeah I have a question if I could yeah sure go ahead I'm concerned about the number of um of code violations that are active I I know we got an email with 20 pages of of various code violations so I don't feel like we can approve this until those are taken care of but I'm also wondering if there's something that's prohibiting us from from enforcing those code violations is that I would say staff is recommending denial of this because of the open code violations which occurred between the time of the notice of intent to approve and and today so when they became aware of it they're recommending denial uh of the site plan application in terms of enforcement I I I I believe code enforcement is moving forward with enforcing it it's just a matter of moving forward yeah there's a process it's you know we have to wait for him to to do corrective action if he doesn't do corrective action then we go to a magistrate hearing it's a process yeah I mean I I I I um I you know this is a sort of an uncomfortable scene to have neighbors you know kind of In conflict and and I know that we we live in a very small space we all have neighbors and and I would love to see um the code violations resolved which that's something that we've always done from the beginning that's why I just want to say it sounds like maybe there are a number of them that are outstanding and it would be great if those could it sounds like there are a number that we've that we have in our documentation so if I could just um I could just finish if you don't mind it would be great to see those cleaned up and then um you know then then there is the the additional the complaints about just the junk and the RightWay I mean you know we we all have neighbors it's it's is this is not a big big area it's it's hard to hear that knowing that everyone is trying to do their best um and it sounds like you are as well um you know my other question is if this if you're you're we're here to permit something that's already in place I mean I I how does that work I mean the the the stuff is already there so so are we asking you needs to remove them until because I would say that no we I don't want to approve this because it sounds like there are a lot of things that need to be fixed so I don't know if we're at a point now I would move to let me can we ask uh Jennifer Jennifer does he have a certain amount of time to bring these things in compliant I mean if it if we issue a code then violation then they have what x number of days to come into compliance so the the the first two are relative to the site plan that's before you today okay and that would go towards helping to correct those two code violations because they're involve after the fact permits okay um the third one is the habitable space above the in The Loft above the store um uh I would have to go back and look and see when that was um when that was issued and what the C when was that issued March just a couple weeks ago May May in May so usually we give people you know 14 days to correct that and then um we would take them to the next available code hearing which in this case would be August because we're not having one in July okay um quick question what are the other violations CU I I would like to know this isn't the time to go over okay I think you'll have to call Jennifer tomorrow or call would call you and you have Paul he can uh actually can look on the all the code violations would be on our portal on our city portal but he can talk to Paul minning the senior code enforcement officer I unfortunately will not be available most of tomorrow be in meetings most of the day uh but I'll be available on Monday if if tomorrow doesn't work M Mr Martinez we we are a small community we all kind of know each other we go along we get along you're relatively new to town compared to some of the others especially all I can say to you is forget about all the regulations just remember the Golden Rule how would you like them to treat you if you are in their position you know you you got to work with them you know sometimes you have to make some sacrifices you're an incredibly hardworking guy I I I love your passion I did commercial fishing I know where you're coming from it's tough man it's really tough but but you got to be good to your neighbors that's one of the things that I need to do I can put a timer from 9:00 I don't know I mean the answer isn't when your neighbor asks for help the answer isn't tough luck buddy you you live next to a commercial place that's the never me and him never spoke that that's the wrong attitude and the wrong answer that wasn't that what he said is is not true well I I I hear a lot of things of he said she said I don't I don't want to get into that I'm just telling you you want us to give you what you're asking for make your neighbors happy quick all right his father prop he's actually lived there all his life he's had that property he just moved in six months ago his father never had it doesn't matter you you're a Lone Ranger in the middle of a neighborhood there fix it so I'll put a timer and turn off the machines at night take care of your neighbors and we'll help we'll help you all right all right very simple man work with Jennifer work with Jennifer I'm trying to get a word and I can't sorry it's okay you know in in a in a past life I uh was with somebody who was a commercial fisherman and uh number one it's a dirty business it is uh your neighbors are never going to like you um we had Gil Nets and we also had a thousand stone crab traps and there's a smell that comes with them there's a noise that comes with the coolers and everything you seem to be very uh creative and everything have you ever thought maybe this isn't the location for you so you could do what you want to do somewhere a little more suitable let me finish let me finish I guess not I guess not I understand you're giving me what we all question I was answering I didn't ask you a question it was okay all right oh my God this is a no win situation I'm done I'm done I tried to talk to you I'm done now go ahead no I move that we deny this application yeah I'll second it yeah we need to wait for Henry all right huh let unless it's a 22 to Tai you can move forward and yeah I I'd like to respect Henry we should we should vote yeah I I would say we wait we wait wait a minute for him did not mean any disrespect no you did absolutely why we're waiting for our other Council to come back you know like if if the truck's got a flat tire you know it can't be you know things like that could be moved very easily and that's what I'm saying you I mean I've heard people say all the Paula I heard Socrates say you are hardworking guy I can look at you and tell I mean I I watched you when we were talking about the other fishing you're like I could see okay so just man you know what you want to be successful then we're work with your neighbors to try to help them you know if maybe you know you you have to find a like your mom said maybe another place to put the traps or something I already did okay you see and most of the time they are going to be in the water for 8 months okay I do have a place here actually right uh where Frankie's Place that he was here earlier okay Island disposal with Jim okay a spot that I already rented from them because I got a little bit more traps and I'm aware that it's starting to get a little bit tight so I I'm already making those roomes yeah well see what you can do see if you could move your boat trailer down there to get it out I already did I already moved that also that's been gone and the truck did have a flat tire and I did fix the tire and I moved it you know and I right now there's there's no trailer there where she's talking about it's completely clean we you know we've only parked there when we have an emergency cuz we're open from 9:00 to 600 and sometimes if my you know my mom's around I have my car we have the trailer that we the boat you know what just here's what I I want to suggest to you okay cuz it is a tough living I understand okay make it a two-way street man because if if if they can live with you and you can live with them it's all about keeping everybody I really you know that's we've got a we've got a motion on the table I just want to mention okay now that he's back but hey remember you get more bees with honey than you do vinegar so I mean it's a tough it's a it's it's a tough business so we have two months to finish getting all our traps ready not even a month and and and the keys this area we know it's very tight you know so anyways okay thank you for your for your time and thank every all y'all that have have spoke so good luck Amigo I hope you do well thank you well we're going to be here you know that's what we do okay all right so Marne we have a motion and a second did I I think Mark you made a motion I made a motion to deny okay and Elizabeth second it um Henry I mean uh Marney call the rooll please council member Mark Greg yes council member Elizabeth Jolan yes council member Henry Rosenthal yes vice mayor Sharon Mahoney yes and mayor May buddy Pender yes the motion passes 5 to zero okay get it cleaned up and come back to see us we'll work with you yeah thank you okay thank you thank you Mr Mayor and Council there's three more ordinances I know there was some discussion about whether to hear them tonight or not so Mark extended till 11 Chris sy's been waiting all night long he's been longer than tonight months we can't do that to him come on I'll lose a little sleep you want to take that one out of order then cuz the next well the next which one is his D well C should be potentially quick that's just the the moratorium extension why don't I read that okay so let's do that so we're on the tab C it's an ordinance of Al Village of violence Florida extending the temporary moratorium established pursuant to ordinance number 23-10 relating to the acceptance of the new market rate residential building permit allocation system applications with or without land dedication providing for cability providing for conflicts providing for the transmittal of this ordinance the State Department of Commerce and providing for an effective date upon the approval of this ordinance by the State Department of Commerce um this is the extension of the existing um uh moratorium on new applications for market rate residential bass um we had brought this because the staff's still going through as you saw on the timeline uh we don't anticipate it finishing so it's second reading for for you move to approve second wait a minute we got to have public comment any public com that's fine we've got a motion in a second but we can we can open up for public comment now I couldn't resist is there any public comment uh the only person i' signed up was van good okay all right so no public comment is now closed okay I heard a motion in a second uh Marne would you call the rooll please this is to approve right the extension correct yes okay go ahead Mar who made the motion and who seconded I made the motion I second it thank you I thought I did oh you can take it I don't care may it doesn't make any differ no it doesn't mayor Sharon Mahoney yes council member Elizabeth Jolan yes council member Mark Greg yes council member Henry Rosenthal yes and mayor buddy Pender yes motion passes 5 to zero tab D tab D an ordinance of alar Village of violence Florida amending Chapter 30 Land Development regulations of article 4 administrative procedures section 30- 221 variances in general of the village code relating to variances from minimum lot area requirement where Workforce affordable housing is provided providing for the repeal of all code provisions and ordinances in consistent with this ordinance providing for severability providing for inclusion the code providing for the transmittal this ordinance to Florida Department of Commerce providing for an effective date upon the approval of this ordinance by the Florida dep Department of Commerce okay Jennifer Yes uh the proposed amendment was before the council last July and was not approved the council has asked staff to look at bringing it back um with the change to allow for affordable housing projects only um in your packet there are uh we had identified six properties which potentially could be allowed uh to use this variance to to develop affordable housing this list was created just with our zoning layer um and uh the dimensions and everything were used with our zoning layer only we did not do a DE deep dive on any other development developability of each parcel um it was just to give you an idea of how many Parcels might be out there that this would affect um the proposed amendment is consistent with the approach in many municipalities to allow for the opportunity to seek a variance in connection with the minimum lot area requirements an applicant would be required to meet all the standards associated with the variance relief noted above in your packet in addition a lot area variance would be limited to the maximum of 5% or 250 ft whichever is less of the minimum required lot area standard and would only be allowed for the creation of affordable housing at its meeting on May 13 2024 the LPA reviewed this proposed change and voted 5 to1 to recommend approval for the pro proposed amendment it's staff's position that this proposed amendment properly balances the rights of indiv individual Property Owners with the protections needed at this time staff recommends adoption of the ordinance can you explain this a little bit more in detail because I I had my briefing today but give me a little bit more I don't know you guys understand Yeah so basically we you need so much land to build uh a dwelling unit or to get your density right okay so if you were so but this is for affordable housing right so we require uh believe it's 2904 for a affordable housing unit right so if you had you need 5808 or or 5809 or whatever that calculation is to create two affordable housing units so if you were short 250 square ft this would you could ask for a variance to get that additional 250 square ft to build two affordable housing units basically did I I had a question about why it's coming back we voted this down in July yes and then uh one of your council members brought it to the council and as that it be brought back the council agreed as consensus and then I believe council member Mahoney suggested that it'd be for affordable housing purposes that's the difference this time it's only for affordable housing well I have a question if you have enough room for one why are you trying to change it to squeeze two I'm I'm serious my name is Chris Santi wait we're not on public comment yet I don't think sorry okay well so we we'll go to public comment right okay go ahead CH okay my name is Chris Santi uh some of you in the council know me um I I was on the council when we voted to make affordable housing and perpetuity nobody pulled any permits they all complained that they were never going to get used and then I bought a lot on Orange and built six one-bedroom homes and sold them all in one day that's how much of a demand there is for affordable housing so I have this lot that's behind Comm commercial property and next to commercial property down there by um Bentley's or whatever the Italian restaurant's called now anyway because of the cost of building I found out that if I can get two two feet more of additional land or a variance for this 2 feet I can put a affordable housing duplex there which is what I'm trying to do because it cuts down the cost of the land per unit which allows me to bring in the duplexes at a more reasonable Market rate th again those of you who know I sold the ones on uh orange I sold them at 235 they're selling for over 300 now because I wanted to prove that you could build a house and sell it I didn't do it really basically for money I did it to prove a point so it's basically the same thing here this is a undesirable lot for any kind of market rate house it's got uh there's a veterinarian office there's a plumbing building there's a restaurant there's a repair shop that does wood carvings so it's not a what you would consider a house that you would want to stay in full-time as a as a higher end market rate it's it's perfect for affordable housing they can live there and walk anywhere in those those businesses in area are are drive there so what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to expand the affordable Market housing pool and I'm willing to build two units there so I'm short two feet well where would that two feet come from your neighbor I'm sort of conf no I tried to buy the neighbor's property I tried to buy 2 feet they wouldn't do it that's the reason this is a variance is asking to allow the 250 ft or less variance to allow me to build these two units so you'll go like property line to property no no no there's a whole there's a Florida area ratio there's there are going to be stilt units smaller units um to allow for all the setbacks on the front and side and everything I believe they're 1,200 s square feet two bedroom two bath okay are we done with public comment thank you very much are we done with public comment we have anybody else um Henry uh Chris yes I I see I think it's six you've got one or two of the six I'm sorry what on the list here yes I only have one you just have one correct this is for everybody's property but like I said there's before when it was denied it was available for any Lots market rate or anything so now that it's come back it's for affordable only and as uh she said Jennifer said um I believe there's five or six lots available I own one of them so if we approve you in essence we're approving everybody yes well if if yes that's correct but you don't know if they're going to build affordable or not I'm willing to build affordable I'd want to know and they would only if they if we approve the other five they would have to build affordable if they want to use this this variance or this ordinance however you want to it and just to also be clear anybody that wanted take advantage of this would also have to apply for the variance and come and get it approved and meet all the variance criteria that are required under the code as well it's not an automatic you can all just automatically do this it's not going to be that my favorite word precedent you know word me anybody can do this anybody can apply not just for Chris you just happen to be having an opinion about it this is not just this is not a I mean this is for everybody it's a change in the way we do business correct but it's it's a change in the code and it's an anybody can apply to to do it but they have to meet the standards they have to create affordable housing it's not oh you can just go do it because you're less 250 square fet it's a variance I'm sorry it's specifically designed for affordable housing only it doesn't open the it doesn't open up this to market rate it doesn't allow people to do anything else other than build affordable housing and I just sat here all night long and you guys spent hours going over affordable housing with habitat and everybody saying you want to move forward I'm trying to move forward I've been trying to move forward for years on this to provide you with affordable housing I have a track record of building affordable housing and selling it at reasonable prices so I I can back all that up this is I mean I hope it helps Chris but he's not the only one and it's limited to affordable housing and we only have very limited amounts of permits left and then the 300 so I mean are we on discussion now or are we done with public comment whatever you want Mar there's no other public comment that is correct okay all right so public comment is now closed yes we're on discussion okay so let's discuss I'm I'm sorry I'm getting a sense that we're not voting we're just discussing no no I just Port have to be on us one no no okay how many Lots did this pertain to Chris just said there's five when we did our um analysis we determined there were six that potentially could take advantage of this okay all right and Chris is one of them his lot that's correct yeah okay all right Elizabeth did you want to finish or Mark well I if if this if we're now in discussion I have a problem with this because like at just some point like it's just getting too crowded I mean it's a small lot you're jamming you can put one on there it's the way our code reads and I I just have a problem with it I mean and you know we continue to talk about the changes we see in the keys and there are no fish I mean this is one of those decisions like how much can we jam into one more block of existence and and additionally the you know I'm just going to keep this short but you know we like to talk about affordable housing I mean we what we aren't talking about is quality of life for those people who have to live in affordable housing or who and so you know you've got people living next to commercial spaces with loud ice machines you've got in this particular one since we're pretending like it's anyway the cigar shop it's I mean it's not the most desirable place to live anyway I I'm I'm I'm going to vote no on this because I'm just I feel like we are overdeveloping he's allowed he could do one of these without a you're right he's he's can already do one and yeah okay all right Mark you I I I I appreciate what you said um you know our building regulations allow people to build out to the setbacks and up to 35 fet high so if we put a sing if we just limited it to single family that could happen so yeah you can still CR no matter what we do you can still cram a lot of stuff there the real practical difference here is you're going to have two kitchens in one building that's what it's going to be that's the real difference and however for affordable you cannot build over 1,500 square ft so we know that the two units together will not exceed 3,000 ft on what's almost a 6,000 ft lot that's not a bad ratio I don't think we've done a lot worse than that so what's wrong with having two kitchens in a 3,000 foot building because then you have six cars and three jet skis they have to that's what happens in that neighborhood well yes I I appreciate that a lot of the folks a second can we extend 15 minutes I'll move we extend 15 minutes yeah a lot of lot of the folks that live in affordable housing don't have trailers and boats and Jet Skis they because they can't afford them maybe they do you're looking at me like I'm from the moon but this is for the workforce it's in the village Activity Center in the downtown so to speak area of Isam marada where the workforce is most needed it makes a lot of sense to me um I I don't know I just I have to just say this without trying to be a jerk on purpose which I do sometimes because I'm a lawyer um but it just seems to me we're making a whole big deal out of affordable housing like we don't want it like we want to become some kind of coastal Elite Community if we want up about habitat man that's what I'm saying man we would I'm I tried to make more affordable housing out of that I don't think you realize that we really wanted more affordable housing we would do something more than cram in one extra house on a little tiny lot this is no disrespect to anybody we actually do something a little more comprehensive locate larger Parcels take those reservations that we just made apply them in a meaningful way I mean this is not a solution to affordable housing let's just be clear and I'm going to stop it's it's part of the all of the above game plan we do a lot of little things and over time they add up to a solution to the problem this is a minor one it's not a big deal Henry you have anything you want to say no okay all right so if we finish our discussion uh do I hear a motion uh Elizabeth yeah I move to deny okay do I hear a second I'll second all right so Marne we have a motion to deny in a second call the roll please council member Elizabeth Jolan yes council member Henry Rosenthal yes council member Mark Greg no vice mayor Sharon Mahoney no and mayor buddy Pender um okay the motion is to deny right correct yes wow okay next item we're done last one more item last item an ordinance of Isam Mara Village of violence Florida amending Chapter 30 Land Development regulations Article 2 rules of construction and definitions section 30-32 of the village code relating to fronting providing for severability providing for inclusion in the code and providing for an effective um since this affects me I'm not voting and I'm going to take a little break have fun guys don't eat all the sandwiches mark this is um this is the item on the fronting definition oh okay yeah this is the last item this is on the fronting definition it's fronting you know it's him yeah I mean it it's more than just council member Greg but it's a small universe and his his property falls within that very small universe um so this was presented to the um LPA and um the LPA voted it down with a suggestion for a different definition which I thought was a good uh a good suggestion and it's a what I'm recommending and and if the council um were to approve it I would bring it back on second reading with that definition the the way it would read would be fronting means the boundary line of the front of a parcel touching a specified location okay okay for instance John the one the one on the highway okay so those could be unified and they could build two houses right there they own both parcels and they could unify it would be considered one but the one Mark owns is the village owns the property in front of that and that is the Old Highway okay so if there's any but it doesn't matter whether it's Mark or anybody else if they're on the Old Highway like Henry you said it's the old the old road is the old road yep yep so it would have to the the front uh the boundary line on the front of the parcel would have to touch a specified location in this case and well we're talking about US1 it would have to touch the boundary line of US1 it doesn't have to touch US1 obviously because the boundary line for the right of way is wider than the road itself but it has to touch the boundary line of that right of way you're using the term the front of the parcel but that can be changed you can change the front of your parcel y so it troubles me that the front the term front is being used in the definition of fronting well I mean it's it's built into the word front is built into the word fronting so I mean we have to specify a location on the property because if we don't specify that it's the front I.E where your driveway comes out then you could you could argue it's any one of the four boundary lines or if you have more than four that would touch it so we went with front cuz that means you are actually going out on to us one can you provide more explanation for your definition when you bring this back like because do do we all understand that the front means where you drive in it I mean in planning yes but I mean I don't know enough about law to know if this makes sense to be honest with you I mean I have no idea can and we talked about pictures we talked about further defin I mean and I'm happy if if the council would like we could put a diagram to show what it means for front like here's an example and it has the driveway going out onto the specified location and we could say this is the front and then these are not the front or something like that I'm happy to because we have diagrams in the Coden yes it wouldn't touch the the the yeah this would apply to other scenarios so I would what I would ask is if I would ask if if the council wants to proceed with a definition a motion to approve with the modification of the the language I I said and um with council member jolin's suggestion of including a a diagram and I can work with planning to come up with the the diagram they're comfortable with Henry saying is the old road is the old road and it doesn't I mean is that what you're what he's saying is that what you're saying yes it doesn't touch the if it doesn't tou yeah if it touches the boundary line of the old road it's the old road if it touches the boundary US1 it's US1 is com no comment is now Clos do I hear a motion um I'll move to approve John's modified version with the inclusion of diagrams I gotta say no what I can't what what she saying I have to say no what do you think she's saying you're saying he's saying John would you tell Henry what you're saying road is what I'm yes I'm in favor have the boundary lines is at the old road that's exactly you can't cross a liquor license that's and that's what you said yeah Florida state law a secondary Road same thing applies to this yeah I mean the only reason we're not saying old Road in or if US1 in the definition is there is another place in the code that talks about fronting so we need to make we can't just specify a spe you know a location of US1 because and and then obviously the code could always be amended and we could have another you know fronting somewhere else but um that's why it doesn't the language doesn't specifically say US1 because then that would be inconsistent with the other provision the other provision that has that term Elizabeth what was your motion so I move to approve the John's modification along with the addition of some explanatory diagrams I vot to approve okay so do we Elizabeth made a motion are you seconding the motion I thought I thought somebody had yes I will okay so Henry Henry second the motion we have a motion in a second call please council member Elizabeth Jolan yes council member Henry Rosenthal yes vice mayor Sharon Mahoney yes and mayor buddy Pender yes the motion passes four to zero all right is that it I'm sorry Frank I didn't have tell I didn't have my mic on that's it y huh that's it yeah that's it okay motion to adjourn let's go home yes no