##VIDEO ID:w9r8gKS7RYI## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e all right we're going to call this meeting to order uh Stephanie would you call the role please mayor buddy Pender here vice mayor Sharon Mahoney here councilman Mark Greg yes here councilwoman Elizabeth Jolan yes councilman Henry Rosenthal yes all right I've asked uh Sheila to uh lead us in the pledge to the of United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one aent under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all thank you Sheila okay so uh Steph we're going to open public comment do we have any speakers have van Caden head followed by Steve fan evening Council this as we all have acknowledged is a very important uh function of the council and um I'm I'm hoping that uh you don't go back on what you had decided uh in the beginning for the millage being 2.65 2.65 everybody was happy and when you made your last presentation you made three scenarios of uh uh roll back 2.65 2.8 and then of course you got your three which is uh what the staff wanted so I think we could survive quite well we had a we had a three to to uh to vote on the 2.65 and I I would hope that you would revert to that and use that as your base figure to the budget because uh 2.8 does not anywhere near uh make the same uh cuts for the people that are paying the taxes if we were if we were to go to 2.65 they would achieve a substantial savings and we would still be able to supply all the the uh benefits and uh bells and whistles that we had for the year before one thing that really bothered me a little about uh what Mr uh Cole said was that that uh we went to the to the level of service that we had had in the previous year and we and we went up from there I don't I think we should have a zero budget I think we should start at zero and and give everybody a 10% cut or a 15% cut in each department and let them work with that because the way this is no one's cutting anything and they all want more so you're not going to do anything but increase the size of the budget with that kind of an attitude and when you say assume you know where that comes out you know make an ass out of you and me and when you promise the people of alamada 2.65 they go to sleep at night thinking that they got a break on the taxes and then the next meeting you waffle and second guess and and uh uh go back and think about again just like you just did with this last uh U presentation for the comp plan um this isn't one of those uh subjects that you should do that with because you know it's like uh waving a a red flag in front of a bull you should if you're going to make a statement and say 2.65 stick with that statement and and don't go to 2.8 don't go to 2.86 or any other number 2.65 is what was promised by three three of you out of the five of you and uh just because the staff doesn't think that's enough money to have uh enough uh acuts and and uh benefits for the for themselves in the next year I don't think that's a good reason to change that and it's it's time to buckle down and ensure that the people are at the top of the list thank you thank you van good evening Council my name is Captain Steve fredman uh I'd like to start out by thanking you for um your tireless work on on our behalfs you go through um many difficult decisions every single day in every meeting and I think it really goes under appreciated the time and effort that you put forth toward this community which brings me to my point that uh when I found out um several meetings ago that uh there was an executive meeting um between you all where um something transpired that the public is not privy to and uh I am uh very much uh against speaking on things that I know nothing about and the executive meeting was apparently confidential and uh I one of the I think councilman Jolan requested a report uh be made by the uh manager to um establish some protocols and some policies so um things don't happen like authorizations of many millions of dollars that uh the council mayor or may not have been aware of that they were doing this is extremely concerning to me and and I think that that would have been one of the easier decisions that you could have made is to authorize the manager to create a report to find out what happened how we could prevent that in the future so thank you very much thank you Marne anybody else I'm Marne I'm sorry marney's in for answer wherever she is Joe Stephanie Joe wishm you have three minutes yes thank you Mr Mayor and councel we all know how how important budget decisions are every Department always asks for the moon some of these requests are not really necessity but a nicity there's a big difference between the two we have all been through negotiations before one side ask for everything then the other side makes a counter offer as council members in char charge of our money you need to look into details line items and then decide if things are truly Necessities so far in the previous budget workshops and meetings I have not heard much negotiating by council members or cutting of any of the Departments before you make a final decision on the millage rate and the final budget please look into the items for details and discuss them and a public meeting for all to hear as far as more employees needed you seem to have enough last year and now you will have some extras like all the employees that have now been hanging out at the fields that are not going to need to do that anymore and collecting all the overtime as well go back to the 2.65 Ms as originally agreed to and vote no on the current proposed budget until more details are available thank you thank you Stephanie anybody else no anybody else in the audience want to speak no public comment is now closed okay Mr Cole mayor thank you um I'm going to speak in general terms to our proposed budget what we're trying to accomplish is is to continue to provide the same level of service that the IL marata Community has grown accustomed to in the past and recognize that there are additional needs as we move forward ranging from uh a pool renovation that we're trying to uh secure funding for in a a syncing fund that will help to level off the expense for when that project actually has to be completed in the next uh two years um we do have Incorporated a a 5% cost of living adjustment which is generally consistent with what we've seen in other areas uh throughout the south Florida area and uh there are some positions that were proposed and and as we go through the scenarios we'll speak in a little bit more detail about those items um but in general uh our staff started out with a proposed 3.0 millage rate for the budget uh We've uh now gone down to based on council's last Direction 2.8 so what you'll see in our presentation material is uh three scenarios that's responsive to Direction received at the last um village council meeting the the tenative budget hearing that we held and we're prepared to continue to modify as Council and the ISA Mara Community feel best to uh One support our staff support the organization and support the kinds of outcomes out there in the community that uh were responsible for achieving so that having been said I'd like to um defer to Lisa or Finance director and let her work through her presentation Thank you Lisa thanks Rob uh good evening everyone uh we'd like to start with our presentation here um what we did was uh as Rob stated we did a 2.8 at the council's direction of as to what you voted for last time and we've just done the scenarios differently three different ways to show you know adding some things and taking away so that you would have some different choices in the matter if you'll okay so 2B is our first one and what we want to show you here is that we have what we have included or and what we've excluded so as Rob stated the uh fire engine we are trying to um produce a sinking fund which is 300,000 so what the fire chief has told us is that we have four years to pay for that which is when we will receive the fire engine and so we're going to put 300,000 set aside each year in that sinking fund so that we will have the funds by the fourth year uh the the next one is the included is the million land acquisition fund and that comes from our discretionary sales ctax uh also included as the pool renovation 500,000 for that the cost on that is 2 million uh but we wanted to start putting aside the money for that and this this option would give us 500,000 towards the pool just the same as we're doing for the fire engine uh and then it also includes the recreation attendant if you'll recall in the last meeting uh Maria had two part-time positions there at the attendant that takes the money when they come in the park and she's just had a really hard time filling part-time positions and keeping someone there and so she has realized that if she had a full-time person with Benefits it would be a much easier you know position to fill so that's what she's asked to do we've done away with a two-part time and put in the fulltime and then also we uh we did add to this these scenarios uh as requested we we put in a 5% Cola to the fire union members even though the CBA has not quite been finished up yet we wanted to go ahead and apply a 5% uh you know the same as what the general employees have and uh just to have a baseline there so that you know if we have to make any adjusts it won't be huge adjustments and then for the cuts over there the positions that we did not include the planner position or the assistant Fire Chief and training uh and then we did eliminate like I said those two part-time positions for the recreation attendant uh so that did it we did take the pool from a million to half a million so that excludes half a million and includes half a million and then on the Public Works building design it does not include that or the Village Hall remodel of our second floor and the new first floor bathroom those are excluded and also uh you know we reduced the um 600,000 to 300,000 on the fire engine so that's does anybody have questions on that do y'all does that make sense question any questions there um I'd just like to add one thing this 2B that we're presenting right now is the one that was directed by Council to advance from the tentative budget hearing a couple of the changes that Lisa highlighted that were modifications we made to the one that Council had uh approved last meeting included the uh change on the fire engine we went from 600 to 300,000 plus again as Lisa pointed out we baked in a 5% assumption for the fire Union just so we can see what's happening with our fund balances keeping in mind that uh that contract with the Ia is still not settled and anything that we settle above and beyond 5% in total value benefits everything included would continue to come out of the fund balance uh figure that you see here thank you Lisa okay uh and then what this does for this just shows a a little scenario here that shows what our Target is for this year um for the unrestricted fund balance as you'll recall that GFA standard uh is two to three months of your expenditures and that's uh a 3.8 million is the minimum so that this um this scenario achieves that uh and also the hurricane reserves this has not met it it does it's almost 36% which we had 40 before um and it will um also the past practice on our um discretionary sales s tax we like to keep some money in that fund because each year you're going to have capital projects that you want to do and you don't want to pull that fund all the way down to zero because we get three and a half million a year on that from the um state but if you pull that all the way down you won't you know there's a lot less projects you can do so it's you know advisable to keep that 1.8 to2 million to put with your the new 3.5 um and so this also does achieve that goal as well so you can see the three on the right side shows what those um the unrestricted fund balance is 4.7 the hurricane Reserve will be 8.1 and the discretionary sales s tax would be at 2. three and then also we did if y'all recall the last time what we did on that was um we did reduce the Hurricane fund from a million we put a million into the unrestricted to pull that number up so that we'll have enough in there um and then that still leaves 8.1 in the hurricane Reserve so that's that scenario does show that as well okay all right the next one if you'll go to 2C that's where your little tab is up there I think it's the red tab yeah the red tab at the top go there and this one is um what's included in this one is the um also has the fire engine in there uh We've reduced this option shows 500,000 for the land acquisition and that's also out of the discretionary sales ctax uh and this one shows a million for the pool renovation um what we' like to do on the pool is um you know that it's not really something that you can wait on because it's got leaks and cracks and those need to be repaired um and you know as you know pool pools have to be renovated occasionally and so that million will go towards uh towards the pool and it's 2 million is our estimated cost for that so that would give us half of the money there and then next year we could uh begin the renovation uh as Maria had said she wanted to start it like in October after the sum season's over and before the snowb birds get here in January so that's the perfect timing really um she's thought that out very well uh that also includes the full-time Recreation attendant the 5% Cola for the fire union members um it does include half of a year for the planner position and what we thought in this instance was that um once um Jennifer gets all her positions filled then she can pull in a new planner U mid year and then have that position just for half the year and then it'll be fully funded the next year so this option just includes half a year for that planner uh and then also we added a wage and benefits study uh in the manager's budget of $155,000 so um the next thing is we do have some cuts on this and that does include Half the position for the planner it does not include the fire chief uh it doesn't include the two part-time positions again and or the Village Hall remodel or the Public Works building design and then uh or 300,000 towards the fire truck because as we said we're going to do that in four years um or half a million for land acquisition so we just have the 500,000 there in that scenario and that for the outcome for that will be that one keeps us still at a pretty good um clip there the gfoa standard is 3.8 as as we said that will leave us at 4.6 million in our unrestricted and 8.1 in the hurricane reserve and 2.3 in the discretionary sales C tax so um the top and the bottom are achieved the hurricane is still at 30 almost 36% so it's still very close to 40 even with moving some of that down there and that does increase it from last year we only had 7 and a half million in the hurricane Reserve last year so you know that is increasing it um so that's the second scenario any questions yeah go ahead I'm just expanding on the planner position I wanted to clarify one thing um and speaking with Jennifer with the vacancies that we have the reason that it is budgeted for one half year is because I've asked Jennifer to evaluate when she gets her new employees in and trained and performing at a level that she believes is is what they're capable of for her as the professional responsible for that area to evaluate whether or not that additional permanent full-time employe emplo is required or we can continue with the Staffing that we have fully trained performing at a a good level with consultant support So as we approach midyear um Jennifer and I would have a conversation we'd make that evaluation and and her viewpoint and perspective of course would be we very heavily in that conversation but if she comes back and says you know what uh with the positions that have been vacant and the other issues that we've worked through uh being gone um maybe I I don't need this position then we would not fill it and it would go un filled for the fiscal year and not automatically be filled so that's a a an a conversation based on need midye next year uh with Jennifer's Viewpoint and perspective weighed very heavily in that conversation about whether or not she believes she would still need it based on her experience with the new staff thank you Mr Co okay on to scenario 2D and this um this scenario has the same thing with the fire engine the 300,000 uh this scenario we reduced the land acquisition fund down to 25,000 and we also included the uh million dollar for the pool renovation um the rec attendant the 5% Cola uh and then the planner position for that's that is not correct there this should be the planner position should be the full-time I apologize for that let's see would that be 13 2D yes it would be yes um I think you may have that in your paperwork but that's incorrect on the slide um and then so it's 138 and then the um assistant fire chief of training that one is full-time and that's included in this as well and the wage and benefit study for 15,000 um the cuts there will be the two part-time positions for the rec attendant the again the Public Works building design and the Village Hall remodel and the 300,000 towards a fire Tru and then uh it does reduce the land acquisition $975,000 so it it gives us a start on the land acquisition you know to start it with something uh so we just put that in there to you know as a Target um and then this last outcome it gives us it's sort of the same kind of the general scenario as the other two the hurricane amount is not met it's at 36 almost 37% there um and then the gfoa standard of 3.8 is achieved at 4.4 million and the uh discretionary sales C tax we would be at 2.7 so that would be a that's that's a good number to be at too so those are our three scenarios we wanted you to look at those and then see uh this this is a comparison here of last year's millage rate keep in mind last year's millage rate was 2.79 N2 to this year this shows this these scenarios show 2.8 so it's very close to what last year's was um and then the resulting Levy for those and then the increase uh year-over-year so those are all the same the only differences here show your Hurricane fund balance and the differs there the unassigned fund balance and the ending fund balance so um it does just those are just a comparison of the three scenarios and what your balances would um end up being there and then that it that's it okay we did have okay that was it um so what we want you to do is um you know feel free to ask questions uh if there's anything else you'd like to see uh we can accommodate that um but to just keep in mind and John will probably bring this up tonight um is the night that we need need to make the decision on the millage rate and on the budget because uh the millage rate is required to be turned into the tax collector by this Friday and so you know we have those guidelines to go by those are their rules not ours so we want to abide by those and John is there anything else you wanted to add to that no I mean I would just say I mean I would reiterate what Lisa said I mean we have hard deadlines that are um this is highly regulated by the state um and if if we fail to comply with the uh with the statutes uh there is pro there are Provisions in there that say that we will be subject to losing State funding for a period of one year um uh there's obviously if we don't pass a millage rate that gets it to the tax collector there would be no millage rate to even be put on the tax roles um and we would not collect any money so so those are obviously doomsday scenarios that I I don't anticipate will run into into I at least I hope not um but I did just want to reiterate uh reiterate that so and and I also wanted to mention at the last budget meeting um there was some discussion about the budget and the the millage rate at the same time when um after we had opened the resolution on the millage rate if you want to have those discussions together I would say now is the time to do it because once we open the resolution on the millage rate everything should be related to the millage rate at that point we we have our millage rate caps on so if you want to have any of the discussions uh together I would recommend you do that now before we we open the resolution on the millets mark did you have Henry I'd be in favor of separating them millage rate is a priority that we have to do the budget is another thing Alto together but and I would prefer to go back to 2.65 Mark um I just had a a question I I I think I had a brief conversation with Mr Cole about this on the nomenclature in the budget and it's on the second or third page it's right after scenario B and then it's this is me fussing about the term landscape mitigation fund and so I'll apologize for that we didn't catch that okay so we're that's intended to get fixed that's not yes it is yes I I thought so and I knew you absolutely a little embarrassed about it I didn't mean to do that but thank you for clarifying that for the benefit of everyone here appreciate absolutely okay i' would like to make another comment this budget the way it's laid out is certainly different than I'm accustomed to in previous years for like 25 years and I would have thought to make these adjustments that the council would have them something to say about the method which you're adopting here I asked to have a line item budget and I ran into all kinds of opposition TimeWise etc etc but we still had time to have a special call meeting this evening I will not vote in favor of this budget and my reason is in order to do it correctly it has to be a line item budget of which we've done in the past and I certainly wish we were adopt that in the future so that's my position and that's my reason I I mean I know you were pressed for time and I'm rooting for you but I don't think it's in the best interest of the city to do it this way thank you go ahead Mr Co just one highlight I'd like to draw everyone's attention to is the line items are in all of the documents that we've produced for Council so we're not hiding any of that um and I just want to be clear for the public so that they understand what we were trying to do here um we also added one additional public budget Workshop above and beyond what had historically been done it's my understanding that the way the budget sessions were LED in the past uh the finance director walked everyone through the budget and kind of went through it pretty quick and what we've actually tried to do and and our next iteration based on feedback from Council as well as our own professional discussions offline is to change the timeline to give us more time to even do this better heading into the next budget I I recognize of course with some of our council members uh that's water over the bridge because you'll you'll be heading back to your your Private Affairs um but I want you to know that we hear what you're saying and have plans to actually have a a dramatically improved process because the timeline that we were on even though um our finance director came in in the middle of transition um was the same timeline that the prior Finance director had used for prior budgets and in fact she relied upon that Finance director's schedule but for us deciding to have an extra meeting and highlight for Council what these various millage rates provide to the organization and to the community and what they don't so we wanted to make it explicit that is not you know uh have we wanted to make it very high-profile when we make a choice we want to know both as staff and as counsel what are we getting what are we not getting so that when we implement this budget in fiscal year 2425 um staff can be held accountable for what they receive the money to do uh they can't reasonably held be held accountable for things that we take out of the budget and don't give them money to do and so as this process continues to mature I think that uh I I hope that uh our council members and the community find that uh it's it's much improved over time and and I I take the criticisms we've heard tonight at least in part um as very valid points and and we'll improve upon those in the next budget cycle so I appreciate your comments but we have to do the millage as I said before we do not have to pass the budget tonight well seriously we do not have to do the budget tonight the only the what I would caution so this is all highly regulated by the state if if we have to this is all considered one public hearing even though there there are multiple items it's considered one public hearing by the statute under the statute if we don't come to a um a decision tonight and honestly the statute only talks about not coming to a decision due to circumstances beyond control of the taxing Authority which would which would Beyond be beyond control of the village that it we have to it would have to recess we would have to come back within 7 Days um and then we would also have to read vertise and the advertisements have to run for uh at least two days before the council the recess meeting and no more than 5 days from the council meeting the other thing I would caution is um if your uh property if your property appraiser views your millage rate as not being final because the the meeting has not recessed so technically it would be uh could be subject to a motion for reconsideration it is possible that the T the property appraiser if they wanted to take a hard line uh on it they could reject the millage by saying it's not final because we have not completed the budget hearing so I want to make sure that that everybody's aware I haven't seen that happen but I also haven't seen where um a scenario like this has played out so I just want to make sure that everyone's aware of the potential worst case scenarios and then also the statutory restrictions that we have in terms of having to come back and and read vertising and what would have to happen so so we would have to come back no honestly if we didn't have anything today we would have to come back um either Monday or Tuesday because that would be within 7 days and given the number of days that the the newspaper runs uh advertisements um it's Tuesday Thursday and Saturday uh The only days that we could we could come back would be either Monday or Tuesday uh both of which are after the proper appraisers deadline for the millage rate as well but if we failed to pass the budget tonight the end result would be we would go back to the previous budget am I correct we would go back to the tentative budget that was uh was approved um but again there there are risks involved in that but it we go back to the tenative budget since a tenative one has already been approved okay thank you anybody else Elizabeth you have anything you want to discuss you mean for this entire process right now yeah the whole thing yeah um yeah well um you want me to talk about my concerns all of them go I mean hey I mean it's we're it's discussion um so I think what um I I is the expectation here I think I think the expectation is that you're asking us to choose one of these scenarios is that fair to say yes uh we took the direction received at the preliminary budget hearing which was 2B and we thought that we would offer Council a couple of other Alternatives based on the feedback that we received during the uh PR the tenative budget hearing so 2B and 2C I mean 2C and 2D um incorporate different pieces of things primarily biggest changes would be the Staffing positions that were not included in two b as in boy the one that we actually talked about last time so we've added different variations and tried to the best we could U make the numbers work and as as you may note what ends up in in the final one 2D like David um the positions as full-time permanent employees at least for this budget cycle are primarily funded using the unrestricted fund balance so from a from a government financing best practices perspective you typically would not fund positions with fund balance because sooner or later your fund balance keeps dropping down and down and down and they have to shift over to the ad tax at some point um we're experiencing something similar this fiscal year which has put a little bit of pressure on the budget in that we had the positions that were safer Grant employees that went from Grant to tax funded so that puts downward pressure or it puts upward pressure on the budget same type of thing with these other two positions and I think that our staff have made you know good Arguments for each of those position positions um and the fact that you know Jennifer was was willing to you know at least see if we can reach equilibrium once those new positions are hired re-evaluate and then if we still need another one to go ahead and and hire them at that point I think that's a responsible way to approach Staffing is to test and make sure that you need it um before you actually hire it so that to C like Charlie option has that element in it so that's pretty much you know the difference between them and and again we did try to highlight very clearly what's included in each one versus what is not included okay so um just to the the expectation here is for us to choose one of these scenarios and I I think what's kind of frustrating me here a little bit is that um and and it it should go without saying that I respect the work that's been done here especially within the last minute nature that is definitely our you know we have we created a scenario that that really put our our new staff up against some real deadlines and I take full responsibility for that um um but with that being said um you know this is a bit of a shell game right you know what are we keeping what are we not keeping what kind of concerns me here is that um and I think I spoke to it last meeting is that we're being we were we were we were presented with a list of of you know wish wish lists items and and things that are being cut are things that were on that wish list and so what I I really would love to see is a more creative which we don't have time for however more create but let me just say what I would wish to see is um a closer look at how we're operating currently I think we certainly have the the still the skill um in our manager and our staff to look at our current operations and how can we um and and and really look at are we working efficiently and then I know um and so create Some Cuts within what we're doing already we certainly don't have a strategic plan in place right now so we don't have um any you know specific things that we are looking to purchase I know that that is something that I hope the next Council puts in place pretty quickly so we have some goals um we also talked at the last meeting about um kind of going out of our norm and looking at our Marina as a revenue source that can be pulled back into um into this this um this stream of of income and I know it's not standard and I know it would take some creativity but I certainly have faith that that is an option um so you know I'm I I would say um you know let's pull back on this mill rate I mean I am very happy to go back to roll back and then say um and and say Hey you know please we want I mean I know we talked about a land acquisition fund I'm much in favor of that there are probably things within this little bit of a shell game that that are required I'm not sure uh because they're sort of all over the place here with you know we can have one or the other but I would suggest going back to roll back that that would be my um because it's an opportunity to um for this capable staff to um to really look deeply at at how we're functioning right now um so that's my suggestion thank you vice mayor I want to know what roll back is what are you talking about so like that that means keep our like don't don't increase taxes keep it the same we don't normally do that in this town every year it's sort of given that we're going to you know add more money and um to what we already have and um like every single year and this would require um us to uh if we don't raise taxes to um well a lot of people would would stop complaining um but also it would give us a it would force the analysis of how we're functioning right now and what an interesting opportunity for our skilled manager to to be put in that position and I know he's up for it um but I would still like to um add this land acquisition fund because it's something that we actually know that we need without a doubt and and I personally looking at these numbers think there's room for that the roll back rate is 2.52 N7 uh repeat that again uh Lisa 2.5 297 2.5 297 yes and last year's rate was 27992 27992 can rob say something Buddy uh sure go ahead yeah I would just like to highlight for Council that um our staff internally has already talked about developing and and Staffing and Innovation team to look at how we do a lot of different things and try to identify opportunities to reduce our costs uh for either a discontinuing things that we don't need to do anymore uh doing the things that we currently do differently for lower cost all of those types of things that one would generally consider in a in a an assessment of of an organization um the timeline that we've had leading up to now didn't provide us with the opportunity really to do that with the other tasks that we've been confronted with um but with a fiscal year within which to do that I think we could return with a sensible plan that highlights and quantifies some of these recommendations so that we could head in the direction that councilwoman Jolin uh described and do it potentially successfully um generally speaking it's it's not a good idea to put the cart in front of the horse when it comes to trying to drive down the cost without having fur evaluated the options for doing that and I would like to partner with our Council and our staff and others in trying to you know really work on identifying opportunities for improvement and advancing them but I would ask in exchange that we get Council support for you know continuing with the direction we had had I I'll say that for every tenth of a point we'd have to find $630,000 out of um just out of the uh the the millage rate out out of the taxes not these other fund sources and what that means is we would be probably having to look at things like uh current Staffing levels um you know things that are recurring expenses that have been going on for years and I think there's a better way to do that without harming our organization the service delivery to the community and the morale of our employees because if we proceed with trying to cut you know $1.2 million from from this budget out of the property tax portion of it which is where it would have to come um it's going to uh do a little bit more than Force us to be creative it's going to force us to make some very real cuts that have damaging effects uh on Service delivery and staff Morel and would potentially inhibit our ability to do exactly what we're planning on doing in 2425 and that is evaluating operations and finding places to save money so I would ask that be consider it in the context of this conversation because I get um the the need and the desire and I view it as a need more than a desire to put downward pressure on the millit rate but I think there's a a structured way to do that and a more of an ad hoc way and I'm I'm a little concerned that the ad hoc weight would result in some pretty negative outcomes that are best mitigated um by funding us at a level that we're seeing today and with the commitment and our council members including some of whom who are here now that may well be and in fact one obviously will be on the next Council continuing to assert that pressure on us and hold us accountable for doing what we're saying we're going to do so that's my my Spiel on that go ahead um if I had to pick and uh let's just say 2D uh Lisa how would the 2.65 affect 2D I mean since we know we're getting the fills aren't ours anymore so we can look at the overtime there and we know hopefully Wastewater won't be around some you know and so how would that fund 2D at 2.65 what would is that doable let me take a look at that just give me a moment here go ahead go ahead Mr 2D at 2.65 we'd have to save somewhere around 900 to 900,000 to a million dollars and so um the Wastewater conversation is probably going to have costs that it go along with it because as we talked with Key Largo they're going to want us to put money into this to transition it and so when we're looking at our fund balance numbers here those are pieces of the puzzle that aren't really reflected in the printed papers but in the calculus of trying to say is this enough money or not uh we're trying to forecast what else might we come across we've got projects that come in over overestimated costs we have a continuing conversation with Argo and I hear them keep saying you guys have got to improve this before you give it to us but I want to hear what the money of that sounds like and so it's it's hard to pull a million dollars out of this scenario keep the positions that we put in there which are two full-time positions and do that with a straight face to where it's you know a responsible budget because we'd be pulling down reserves to be able to do it instead of paying for it with taxes but if we know what Elizabeth is saying and you know how I feel about that that okay the budget thing starts way too late we should be going line by line like Henry said but too little too late for this Council um we know there's places we can cut so to do 2D at 2.65 I don't see why that couldn't happen throughout the year because there's there's listen I could take this budget I could cut all kinds of stuff silly stuff and I know we all feel differently towards things but I like the 2D what it looks like but I I'd like it at 2.65 so instead of Doom and Gloom is there a happy way we can do this well um as Rob said most of the money that what we've what we've shown you tonight on the capital projects um most of that those are coming out of discretionary funds so those would not be affected the only thing you're going to affect by reducing that millage rate is going to be either cutting employees or cutting operating expenditures so those are not items that we've necessarily looked at because of the cost is not as great the operating expenses for each department is such a small amount um you know you're talking about 10,000 20,000 just small amounts compared to if you're needing to cut Millions from your budget you you know like something for a pool would be a cut um or the fire engine you know larger items is what I'm saying but um you know we've weighed all the options we put all of our um revenues out there um I went line by line on that to see we moved around what we could move around to discretionary sales tax um we also considered all the grant funding that we have which we have quite a bit of grant funding um and so you know after we made all of those and impact fees we've used all of the impact fees so you know after doing all of that we still in the general fund it's just your funding has to come from ADV valorum and so um what we would need from you really we would like to have some advice on what you would like to cut uh would you like to cut staff would you like to cut uh operating expenditures just some kind of um you know recommendation as to what you would like to cut because those are the places that we will have to cut Mr Cole another option on the table is and and I'll first say what it is and then I'll State some of the provisors that go along with it is we in theory could draw down the unassigned fund balance from what it shows $4.4 million to probably around $3.4 million uh if it were down to 3.4 it would not achieve the gfa's recommended unrestricted fund balance so we wouldn't hit that Target um but it would still have $3.4 million in there um the problem with doing that if we chose to do that and that would be you know drawing that down further than what staff would would recommend uh the risk would be um we try to do a keygo thing and and we have to try to find the money to make that happen um we have projects that we're working on that come in over budget and we'll have to find money to make those gaps close uh we could conceivably run into other issues that we need to be able to mitigate we'll have our collective bargaining agreement but that you know in the overall scheme of this number is is not significant um we'll have a storm water master plan that gets done in this upcoming fiscal year and we'll probably want to try and make sure that we get some of those plans engineered so that we can try to pursue grant funding with them as shovel ready projects so we don't have any of that in here yet because we haven't seen the report yet so there's some things that are are percolating that could be big ticket items and and the two biggest ones would be storm water and the Wastewater transition in theory and and I'd be a little concerned about not having enough resources on hand to accomplish those things but take those off the table and yeah um you know if it's 2.65 that's you know uh 0.15 and that's about let's say round number million dollars comes off of that 4.4 and you're down to 3.4 and that would be probably to me the the better solution than cutting our staff but nonetheless a risky one when it comes to potential costs we're exposed to in the upcoming year um but right side is yeah we will be working on trying to reduce costs for our operations generally so there there could be some measure of offsetting uh savings but that we don't know what they are yet he so Mr Cole you just okay Lisa talked about grants what I mean I know that storm water and wastewater there 's all kind of I mean I I I think but D or I mean the governor is doing all kinds of stuff with Wastewater in in the State of Florida so instead of cutting staff could we work on maybe some grants that help offset that the the waste water and the storm water but the projects that we're talking about that are in the budget have Grant dollars attached to them for the most part so that wouldn't change what we already have baked into here but on on other projects that come up that we may be able to advance uh there there may well be and I would anticipate there would be some grant funding that goes along with that but there's also some match that goes along with it as well so we'd have to you know wait and see what those projects are how much they cost and what the cost share profile is and none of those numbers for projects that we have yet to identify are reflected in this budget at present and that's some of the skepticism that I'm injecting into the conversation hearing you know what we would like to try to do from a policy perspective Mark I I have just a couple questions maybe a comment or two um I think we all five of us share the goal of wanting to bring the taxes down and provide a benefit to the people that pay them and that's in competition with the goal of the all of us to keep the level of service that we have if not improving on that and unfortunately those are the opposite of one another um what I'm trying to do is put things in perspective for myself at least as a taxpayer as a property owner so I believe you've already answered this question but I don't have the memory uh to to repeat it but just in sort of rough round numbers what would be the impact to a taxpayer a property owner with a home assessed at 500,000 and and also at 300,000 I'm Excuse me a million 300,000 um at 2.65 or whatever that number is for the roll back or whatever y'all are asking for and then 2.8 I mean what what is the what is the spread there is it th $1,000 or a couple hundred bucks or what is it I believe Lisa has those numbers available should be three I mean so so I'm putting myself into the shoes of a taxpayer actually I am in my own shoes as a taxpayer yes and so if I had a home that was worth a mil 300,000 what would be the difference between what I would pay under the scenario of 2.65 whatever whatever oh look there there it is so so that does give you at the 265 it is an actual decrease if on a $1.3 million house $194 increase annual dollar change it's a decrease of 194 yes exactly we would save a person with a million house worth a million 300,000 a little less than 200 bucks and then someone and the 2.8 just shows you'd have a dollar five increase for the whole year okay I see so because that rate is close to what what last year's rate was very close are we able to determine what it would be for someone with a home at 500,000 uh who is that who is that well maybe a condominium or something no no actually who is that I'm just guessing but I would assume it's somewhere near little less than half of those numbers just you know thinking of it in terms of how the math would go all right so I'm just asking for us to can think about these numbers and and and I don't know if this is good or bad but I I remember our assistant fire chief Jason Lyman sitting in the audience and giving his side of the story which I took to heart and I think he the phrase he used is something like uh for for about the cost of a date night with your spouse uh we could continue to enjoy the same level of services or a little above that if I if I paraphrase that wrong I invite you to correct me but I'm not trying to say that it's insignificant but our town is special you know we just had that conversation when we were talking about hiring the consultant to do the comp plan and the folks here expect special and we have to deliver so if it cost them a date night a year for us to bring that about the question is do you want to do that is that reasonable and every I I get a sense of discomfort from the staff when we ask them to take take one of these scenarios and Lop off a million dollars I I can see the anxiety on their faces uh because there something will have to be cut you know if it goes down you got to cut if it goes up you don't that that's that's the Seesaw that we have so I have my thoughts and ideas but um all right we got to figure out the millage rate and then we figure out the detail speak first go ahead Henry you know once you get involved with this thing you can make Cuts all over the place believe believe me they are there I don't have to write them down look at the overtime with with the fire department used to be 500,000 then it went to six and change we're damn near eight and change or close to eight right now every time I ride through the fields I got three three cars sitting on the side of the road this this is not rocket science I mean this just isn't you want to find a million dollars I guarantee you I'll find you a million dollars and it won't be that difficult it just won't be people have to understand we're looking for roughly we're looking for $2 million right now that's what we're looking for Wastewater the um transportation what's that called the uh freeb public freebie freebie the county will take over freebie in a New York minute and what's that cost us a bunch what about the um Christmas decorations that Christmas oh no no Christmas decorations I'm just kidding but in the fire department budget what's it called the days oh Kelly Kelly days that's overtime every time every time you give a Kelly day to somebody somebody else has to come in and and replace that person and it's not straight straight money it's time in a half for Kelly days I mean this goes on and on and on and on believe me the cuts are there and it's not going to involve anything to do with performance for the taxpayer they will never see or will ever just say oh you did this you did that but the per performance I'm looking for what about the garbage collector and we maintain the one service it would cost you $1400 a month how way you retain the garbage collector we changed it I mean these things are there but you have to work at it it I don't know maybe I look at things a little differently in the rest of the world I I maybe my experience in life in general is a different story than than a lot of people but I'm going to guarantee you you're talking about a night out there's a a hell of a lot of people in this town that can't afford a night out they just can't and I've said it time and time again when you're behind somebody checking out and the kid grabs a bag of candy and the mother says you have to put that back we don't have the money for a bag of candy I mean I've seen it you mean diabetes and tooth decay yes hello Elizabeth my favorite actor did I talk about actors earlier um you know I just wanted to make the comment that I I think this is Being Framed in a in a strange way that's putting us in a position to to sort of be the the decision makers over you know who gets paid and who doesn't get paid I I and I I um and and that's not that's not what's happening here it is not I'm not the one who's I I I don't think it's my job to um decide whether um you know the planner position funding is more important than something else on this list and and so I think that that there's sort of a little bit of a psychology game here going on that I don't that I I think is a little bit disingenuous I mean our our job is to come up with the millage rate and then to ask our ask our staff to um work within that within that scenario and and and fund appropriately I mean you know we we have been we're not asking to decrease a cola no one has talking about that um and so I I don't want to be put in the position of suggesting that I'm deciding that someone shouldn't get a paycheck because our staff is super important I mean nowhere have we talked about the 9 million Hurricane fund I mean we we say that's our policy but we haven't actually discussed that that's $9 million sitting there that that is just there um and I I have an opinion about that it seems somewhat arbitrary we haven't I don't think we've had a meaningful conver conversation about a Hurricane fund and the and the reality of of how that money can you know how how we can utilize that money so again I I would suggest going back and and what an what an opportunity for this town to put this task onto our very capable staff to um to um to to do to do more um and and really take a fine tooth comb to to this really very um extensive amount of money that we pull into this town and and that again just to be clear is not me saying I'm choosing to cut staff or cut anyone's pay that is not what I'm saying because that's not my job to say that Mr Cole if council's direction is is to go to 265 I think we've put a solution out on the table that does that without necessarily having to cut staff or some of the more significant uh changes but uh I attempted to highlight what the trade-offs were with that and and so that would be my recommendation and I'm not asking Council to decide that I've offered a solution that achieves a Target provided by Council without having to thrust that decision making on on council members so is that are we at 265 I'm not but also we are not I mean I'm not being I mean I'm not cutting staff you are cutting staff if if you want to cut I'm not cutting staff I've already said that I would take is not saying that we want to cut staff and I'm not suggesting that I I said we would pull it from the unassigned fund balance which is not cutting sta I think indirectly we are making that decision I mean it I'll say this I don't mean this in the wrong way but it feels like we're we're making Rob do the dirty work we're saying we don't care you do it no Rob has paid a lot of money to do a lot of things and and I I'm glad that you're paid a lot of money but for example we're we have this arbitrary list that we haven't prioritized like do we want to fund a million dollars with the pool or in a different scenario 500,000 I mean there's a lot of staff there well those are policy decisions that we're supposed to be making not the staff well but what what's happening here and I think you probably understand this this is not this these these lists are not put into any kind of con context of prioritization I mean I've heard and this is no offense to anyone this just but I've heard the pool has lots of cracks and has to be fixed now I also heard that the pool the million dooll pool could be funded 500,000 now 500,000 later I also heard that the pool is not going to be done until next year now which one is it and how does that relate to um the the for example the planner position funding I don't know it's not it this is I mean we can't we don't we aren't being given enough information here to prioritize therefore you know I would have to put it back on our capable staff I would like to say um in regards to the Hurricane fund um I did mention at the last meeting I believe in the workshops as well um our CPA that does our financial audit did recommend to me 25% as far as a hurricane threshold to have um and so I did throw that out there I don't know if that was agreeable or not I think there was some consensus on that but um maybe some disagreement um and that you know I I totally agree with reducing the Hurricane fund last year it was 7 and a. half million and still even all of the scenarios we've given you tonight uh go over that from last year so it's not at the 40% but 40% again that's not the recommendation of our CPA uh for a small town like ours but I do understand you know Councilman Greg did um mention you know being through hurricane irman I do understand that but those are funds that we could utilize and I don't think in the past there actually was a hurricane uh amount set aside in a reserve so um just throwing that out there that you know that is an option I have to say I think the blowback for that which comes from me primarily uh is that the CPAs and others that make these recommendations don't live down here and I don't mean that in a nasty way I'm just saying it's different it's more expensive here and in a time of Crisis or hurricane uh after a hurricane it's the pricing the gouging is out of control and it's it's a wild west scenario and the cowboy with the most money wins so that has been our strategy for the last several years and that strategy was proven in Irma so if you want to I'll call it raid that or you want to use that fund it's perfectly legal to do that but you're putting the entire town at risk because every day a business stays closed after a hurricane it's more likely to not reopen that's been proven as well so I I I respect you if you want to do that I I'll still love you if you do that's fine but that's dangerous and my personal View and if you wanted to do something in the budget that affected a smaller group of people maybe that would be a little more acceptable Mark that happened just what you're saying in Key West after Irma several businesses in Key West never came back some some of that happened here in spite of the fact that we sprang back quicker than all of them it's it's a tough Marathon it happened marathan got crushed and it's tough and I just think that's we're we've got an insurance policy for the whole town I think that's what that money represents in that way I yeah I mean I just I I think there's room for disagreement there and and certainly room for something more concrete than just how we're feeling and some you know something less than just an arbitrary feeling I think that could go along with that $9 million okay Henry for years it was 25% for years then we went to 40 and with the increase of the values of the property we could certainly do less than 40 however let's say we justes we didn't set enough aside what bank would refuse us to do a loan really just think about it what bank would refuse us because we have a situation with a hurricane it wouldn't happen what you're saying is you want us to be the banker let the banker be the banker if we need it if we don't need it we don't need it simple enough End discussion done all right where we going I like what I suggested well I would move to go to rollback that's too far she's talking 2.59 that's too far but but how can we have a conversation about a millage rate without at least having some idea about A or B C or D that is exactly what I asked our attorney and apparently we can do that and we they're separate actually what I said was once we open up the resolution they need to be separate and I specifically said at the opening of this meeting if you all would like to discuss them together as was broached at the last meeting we should do that now and that that's what I thought you all were doing now right Mr Cole um just to highlight Council woman Mahoney um had mentioned that she was uh specifically to 2D David was the scenario she was advocating for with I believe it was 2.65 and uh the response to that was to come up with with that one and a half additional points roughly a million dollars we would draw down the unassigned fund balance to hit that Target um and that would do a few things one it would protect the hurricane Reserve at its current level and a subsequent council could certainly discuss whether 40% is still the right number or not um when we checked with Monroe County I think they have a $10 million Reserve marathons was even higher than the counties and higher than ours but they mixed in a few other things with it so it was hard to make Apples to Apples comparison but at 265 on scenario 2 D is in David we could do that by drawing down our unrestricted fund balance to cover that Gap recognizing that yes we would have to be looking for ways actively through the course of the year to blunt the effect of that before we get to our next budget and and to the extent that we're successful in finding that $1 million in savings then we would have been uh uh correct in making the assumption that we are today that drawing that down by a million dollars would not be harmful well there's a motion on the floor anyway well we can't have a motion because we have to have public comment we we haven't opened the resolution well there is a motion on the floor but I'm saying procedurally we cannot have a motion we have not opened the resolution yet this was a discussion item we you you can you mean where are we on this agenda we're on the discussion before we got to we have not read the resolution yet to open that item I can read it and for you can make the motion thank you for the procedural explanation thank you this this was all discussion Elizabeth thank you okay okay do we want to uh have public comment well let me read the resolution and then that way we can formally open it I'm not leaving I'm just taking a break don't get in that car thank you Mark for the heads up it's uh tab two is a resolution of the Village Council of VI Mar Village of violence Florida adopting the final budget of the village for the fiscal year commencing on October 1 2024 and ending on September 30th 2025 authorizing expenditure of funds established by the budget providing for budgetary control providing for personnel authorization providing for wait I'm sorry I'm reading the budget one I'm sorry no I was on the wrong tab a resolution to the Village Council of V Mar Village violence Florida adopting a final Mill of the village for the fiscal year commencing October 1 2024 through September 30th 2025 pursuant to section 2000.0 65 Florida Statutes and providing for an effective date now procedurally uh councilwoman Jolan if you'd like to make the motion it would be appropriate okay I'd like to move to move to go to roll back what's the number please it's 2579 or something like that okay 2.52 97 Henry oh thank you number I'll second it okay before we open it up to for public comment I do need uh statutorily I need to make a couple of statements uh the island Mar Village of island is is the taxing Authority for the for purposes of this the roll back rate obviously is 2.52 N7 that would be a 0% increase uh over the roll back rate um and the millage to be levied under the resolution is 2.52 N7 can I say one thing before we start um I I feel your frustration with the way this budget hearing went I would have liked to have done it differently I know Rob Cole would have liked to have done it differently um U and I know Mark a date night doesn't seem a lot to you but it does to a lot of people and a lot of people can't even afford to go out so that's why I think 2.5 too much I think 2.65 and um I don't want to cut this these things for our staff I believe Jennifer needs help Terry needs to have what he has they're not in their positions for us to take it away from them at least I don't feel so so I I think 2.5 is way too low and it's really got am I right will it really hurt worse than the look at look at ly yeah so I'm pushing for d with 2.65 so okay but we have a motion we have a second so Mark we have a motion uh Elizabeth made a motion to John help me if I'm wrong to go to uh roll back rate of 2.52 N7 and5 yeah and Henry second it so uh we need to have public comment first correct and and then at some point I'll also I can tell you what the voting thresholds are if you're you're interesting but obviously I'll have to get with Stephanie to Stephanie do we have any public comment signed up S Miller so we don't have anybody Joe wishme go ahead yes thank you it's my understanding that roll b roll back rate means that you go back to what it would take to do last year's budget and remember we had an extra $720 million of taxable property so that's extra money that came in so I don't understand why we need to increase by so much that that wouldn't cover it plus even if we just went to the 2.65 uh I don't see any reason that we should go above that and that's what you all agreed to at the first time so be a council of your word and let's go back to that thank you are anybody else Stephanie okay public comment is now closed I'd just like to ask a clarification question of the staff um the roll back rate if I understand it is the rate that gives us the same dollar amount that we had to spend last year that's correct and so what that means is if there's inflation or additional services or needs or something we have to use last year's money to cover this year's expenses is that the the amount of last year's money is that a fair way of saying it I would say yes okay so and and oh are you done I just want to make sure I'm not I don't mean to sound like a I don't know whatever a teacher or something but is it just me or does it seem like a difficult task to use um the same amount of money to cover more in other words we have more people we have more property we have to provide more services we've had you know terrible inflation through the covid cycle which seems to be coming to an end I mean can't we give ourselves a cola to to at least kind of keep even with things and this is the point I mean we're not saying get rid of cola we we are not saying that but what we're saying is look at this budget which we are we are not we are not being given the opportunity to go through here line by line by line which I don't think any of us want to do nor should we be doing that um I don't think our staff wants us to do that but yeah I think the money is here and I guess if we want to stay here all night we can do that but but is it fair to say Lisa that by going to roll back we're not cutting Jennifer's planner you that money can be found somewhere and let's be honest watch your face look at but wait a minute let's be clear we ju you we just had a conversation about $9 million in a Hurricane fund that is sitting there that's available for our use true so okay so let's be clear on it well so let's be clear what we're talking about is that we're taking money from savings to cover these additional expenses we are moving money around I mean we're not taking away anyone's pay raise we're we are also saying let's let's do the work for your Innovative team that you're creating to look where we can cut but the revenue sources our back pocket not outside collection of taxes we asked for the the plantation Yacht Harbor to be looked at I mean this is ongoing work this isn't a static figure and I and and when have you ever ever been in a situation for government to say you know what we're not going to raise taxes actually we're just not going to I mean we could do that wouldn't that be amazing I mean wouldn't that be amazing and we are not saying that we're cutting anybody's Staffing just to be clear I'm gonna stop now okay so Stephanie we have a motion John can you tell us what the procedure yeah so I I just now would be to vote but I just want to obviously depending on where the rates are set um uh the statute requires different voting thresholds at um at the roll back rate 2.52 N7 it would be a a majority simple majority three to three of five um so up up to 2.67 36 actually requires a simple majority okay uh Stephanie we have a motion a second call the role please councilwoman Elizabeth Jolan yes councilwoman henle Rosenthal yes councilman Mark Greg no vice mayor Sharon Mahoney no mayor buddy Pender no motion fails to three can I make a motion for mine now you sure yes I move for 2D at 2.65 it would just right now would just be the millage rate so it just a motion for of 2.65 D is and David Diaz and David but right now we're just doing the mill so 2.65 or a mill rate of 2.65 I guess it dies I hear a second I'll second it all right we got a motion in a second I have to read off the same statements that I read off before um taxing Authority still Island Mara Village of islands the roll back rate is 2.5 297 um the percent increase above the roll back rate at 2.6 uh to 2.65 would be 4.76% and the millage rate to be levied under this motion is 2.65 okay so Stephanie we have a motion and a second would you call the role please vice mayor Sharon Mahoney yes councilman Henry Rosenthal yes councilwoman Elizabeth Jolan no councilman Mark Greg no mayor buddy Pender oh man um 2.6 five yes motion passes 3 to two Okay let me read the res the resolution for the budget then uh it's a resolution of the Village Council of alar Village of violence Florida adopting the final budget of the village for the fiscal year commencing on October 1 2024 and ending on September 30th 2025 authorizing expenditure of funds established by the budget providing for budgetary control control providing for personal Personnel authorization providing for gifts and grants providing for amendments providing for encumbrances providing for issuance of checks providing for post audit Pro uh providing for severability and providing an effective date let's move on so we need a budget right yes like scenario a b or c c okay I'll make a motion that we pass to b as in boy second it to be to be or not to be I mean to be as in boy I'll second it we're cut okay so w with the um the I don't know what I would call it deficit or the the uh the revenue source to come from the um different fund sources that we maintain now as the manager identified earlier yeah what so in other words instead of cutting um positions or activities or projects the money would come from our existing fund balances our savings but that goes without saying no I think we need to have that in the motion though for the for the budget to the directive so we need to identify that because it's not in the packet 2B is a mill rate of is based upon a mill rate of 2.8 so the motion as I understand it would be a motion to adopt the budget as presented in scenario 2B with any um uh shortfall uh between uh going between the mill rate of 2.8 to 2.65 being made up from the uh hurricane uh the emergency Hurricane fund corre it's from the unrestricted fund balance Oh I thought that was a hurricane sorry the unrestricted fund balance my apologies unassigned yes that would be my motion well then I don't I don't second it are you not second I'm not seconding that okay all right great no second okay motion fails you want to adjust your motion dies for lack of a second I I I can't sleep at night if I take money out of the Hurricane fund so um I'll sleep I I I went through I've been through 23 hurricanes and I've never evacuated and I have to clean up after everyone and they're a mess and it's a nightmare sure you guys have been through more because you're native Co you know what that's like I grew up poor I I don't like having no money when problems come up so that's my make a motion sure I want to approve 2D again I'm trying again okay two 2D yep and would it be the because uh because 2D is also based on a mill of 2.8 would that motion also would include the the uh making up the deficit coming from the unassigned funds from between 2.8 to 2.65 said yes all right so I made a motion so do I hear a second he think everybody looks so lost thinking pretty intense no no I can't do it I'm sorry it's okay all right second going again so where are we all right I'll make a second on that then on on what Sharon let me make sure I'm right this is on the scenario of 2D at 2.65 um Mr Cole what she just ask you can you explain that so we make sure we're on the same page um yeah I'm hearing scenario 2D like David we already uh voted on the milit rate of 2.65 the gap between the 2.8 and 2. 65 which would be roughly $900,000 to a million dollar would be subtracted from the unassigned fund balance drawing that down to you know 3.4 million or so okay but also I just want to make sure with Lisa that this one right here in 2D that I'm looking at the the planner said uh 63710 but that number is actually 138 637 correct Lisa no which number are you looking at yes I'm looking at the planner the the 13 the Planner on the included fulltime it's 138 637 yes correct correct okay all right so I have a question on that go ahead so we're going to fund that without funding without that without filling the vacant positions we're just filling that position is that what we're saying no I think what we're saying is that position would be funded in the 2425 budget and we would recruit that along with the other vacancies such that we can get Jennifer up to full staff including that new vacancy uh as quickly as possible so they would be handled concurrently as recruitments instead of linearly and and also in there is the assistant fire chief training correct M yes sir that's correct all right all right so so we we have a motion in a second can we have a little discussion sure absolutely so I want to make sure that you recognize something so Sharon I know you've been waiting for this so here he comes um our Council through the last two years has been mostly proactive about um preserving our environment protecting our environment and uh has been aggressive on acquiring land for a variety of reasons Environmental Conservation as well as for needs of the village and so you might recall that when we agreed to purchase the Church property I don't know that we agreed to it but I do remember having a discussion from this chair at that time saying hey um I'll go along with this but we need to start thinking about selling something either the U Island well the Walgreens property or the Machado Properties or something because we've got a lot of vacant land sitting idle that's taxpayer money just sitting there doing nothing no interest it's collecting no taxes cuz we don't pay taxes to ourselves and it's doing nothing so I would like you to consider that you know we're not selling anything we're rating our savings that word mine rating our savings and now we're cutting something we're cutting out our commitment to protect the environment and to set aside money to acquire land when we know we have no more bass allocations so somebody's going to make a claim and our cupboards are bare so you're going to go have to find that money somewhere else so I want to make sure when you vote to do this that you do that buddy you're running for reelection you're going to have to explain that and you'll have to explain it after the election to anybody so I'm teasing with you a little bit but it's the truth so you're making a policy decision right now to do that but we haven't discussed that that $25,000 can grow and we don't need to buy something right now well are you how are you going to make it grow I don't know that's why we have creative people in this town we you know there's there's all kinds of people in this town who have didn't we ask didn't we ask Jif me right off oh I'm sorry that's okay so so wait bringing up a good question okay FL class has Mr Yates put $10 million in there made almost $400,000 the first year okay I don't know what maybe you and Lisa could tell us where does that money go the interest that we made where is that money going in the general fund or it is allocated out to the different departments depending on okay so it's split up in between departments correct yeah okay all right we asked Jennifer if we should set we we and set aside money for land acquisition and takings and she actually said no and now while I I as I recall is that fair because we don't have a plan for that maybe I misunderstood that thank you um I think I said not at this time I I didn't say no completely I think I S thought that this was a pre that would be a premature thing at this time um the council has tasked me with you know creating a plan for administrative relief for bass for affordable housing for all different kinds of things and we're working on that as we all know the department is is down to people now and so we're extremely short staff so that plan is is going to be pushed out a little bit further to the beginning of next year but we are going to be working on that and so it's it's unlikely I would assume that the council would want to purchase anything until those plans are completed and we have sort of a direction um so I I would be saying that that would be a premature thing to do until next budget cycle so is Mark wrong about the idea that not I'm not trying to put like Target you but is so this idea that we might plan for takings and purchasing conservation is I mean I'm not I don't think that's a bad idea or wrong but I'm just saying I think it's pre it might be a little premature in this budget cycle if if there's concerns about where can we save money or where do we need to get extra money I think you know cutting that down a little bit might not be a bad idea because again I think it's a premature ask at this time sure re um just add a little bit more I I tend to a agree with Jennifer when it comes to timing isn't exactly right because we're going to we have a a standing uh direction from Council to evaluate all of our Property Holdings and and strategically consider what we're planning to do with them it's possible that uh council could decide to sell some of those some of those properties when when that transpires if it does that money would come back and replenish our unassigned fund balance um if we were to find another property that we wanted to acquire and we had not yet sold any off to replenish that uh we still have uh on the side fund balance and discretionary sales C tax both of which are eligible for property acquisition if we found the right property and felt the right urgency um there's also conventional financing if we had to close a gap because between all of these reserves that we have we didn't have enough time to buy a particular property that we felt that we wanted and needed to do so I think what I'm saying is there's some optional ity there it's not a yes or no question um but I think that um you know working through the items on Jennifer's task list uh and doing that as a as a team with Council can help Elevate U our our decision-making a bit to where uh we can begin to uh dis I don't want to say dispose of disposition the properties that we currently have in our portfolio which either can turn into projects conservation of able housing cash coming back into our funds to acquire other properties all of those kinds of things and and those would still be feasible under the scenario that uh vice mayor Mahoney has has proposed with the scenario 2D is in davit at 2.65 and it does provide needed support and assistance in the planning area to help do some of the exact things we're talking about right now it does concern me that we that our comp plan comp plan gives to acquire conservation land and and everyone here is saying that we don't want to do that I agree it's an unfunded mandate I I'm it's an unfunded mandate I'm alarmed that we're like $25,000 I don't I don't know what you can buy with that um This concerns me and and I think this continual conversation about how we don't have any money it's just simply disingenuous it is absolutely ridiculous to pretend that we're we're searching for money in this town when look at our budget I I it's beyond me good Mark help help help me understand what you're saying about this about what are you looking for well let me get to the answer but I'll just say it on a philosophical basis the budget is an expression of the will of the council and it sets our priorities out there and we put our money where our mouth is and in the past we've said we want to con conserve environmentally sensitive lands we want to acquire property for affordable housing we want to um retire development rights and we we're ultimately going to have to satisfy claims we did that with the Glenn property now I wouldn't say that came out of the blue it was a couple of years in coming and we the manager was very creative in pulling together the funds to buy the church property that kind of just popped up like a Jack In The Box 4 million bucks so what I'm saying is we're telegraphing to the public our policy we're we're making a decision we're here to protect the environment for the quality of life and for our grandchildren to enjoy and for the the the business of the village that relies on the Environmental Quality here our our environment I think it's a very important statement to make that we're looking to the Future we're we're about the future it's not just about today and we're putting some money up to take care of the problem that we know is coming if you don't think it's coming uh you don't see it I mean I guess I'm the only one that sees it that way but to to me it's it's a bold statement and it's it's a proud statement that we're going to protect what we've got and make keep it beautiful and keep it clean and keep it for our grandchildren and I think that brings the property values up for everybody by doing that so would you be okay then last year's rate was 2.7 n92 that's where we were at no wait we just already voted on the millage rate it's already 265 but we're just oh the 265 right okay I understand s unless you want to open it back up which we got time to do that but let me ask you if where you're I mean these numbers are fluid this the list so why don't we and apparently we can get by with $500,000 on the pool why don't we put it to land acquisition and make scenario 2D um the pool is $2 million but see look th this is this is why we're we're this conversation is so arbitrary because on one of these scenarios there's only $500,000 we're setting aside for a pool this is arbitrary well whether it's arbitrary or not what is the fact can we deal with facts here that's what I don't get let let Mr call speak please um the the pool amount first of all I'll I'll Circle back to that I want to tackle first the land acquisition fund question and I see that $25,000 is upsetting some of our council members and I see the why of it um what if we were to take 500,000 out of the discretionary sales service tax and transfer it into the land acquisition fund so you'd have 525 sitting in that fund uh the money in the discretionary sales tax is permissible to be used for land acquisition so it could go right into there and at least address in a meaningful way a policy level commitment to acquiring property for conservation and other purposes while at the same time uh maintaining an appropriate balance in our discretionary sales Sur tax of about $2 and A4 million that point so I think I'm hoping that's a win-win where we have 2D David 2.65 and 525 on land acquisition and then on the pool uh what we're accomplishing with that is different scenarios um designed to blunt the impact of having to come up with $2 million all at once in a year and a half so we're helping to smooth the Budget moving forward and in the meantime it can be invested and we can gain interest on it but it's a it's a smoothing technique in the budget uh that that really so what if we did half of that Mr Cole instead of 500 I mean are you okay with that if we if we moved 250 Grand what he's talking about why why half I mean there's it doesn't what are you going to buy for 250 nothing nothing yeah but we're buying whatever is coming up I mean and who knows what that is we never had a fund before and the two of you are like you're on fire now over this it's because whatever it it puts us at a disadvantage when think when all of a sudden you have to I I appreciate what the vice mayor is saying and she's right we've really never had a fund before but we've never run out of bass allocations before either so I think it's time that we start to think about this and plan for what's coming down the road and if not whoever's sitting here a year from now is going to be torturing the staff to squeeze the balloon and make the money pop out here in there but instead we can spread out the pain over a lower and longer period of time and be ready for for it let's uh repeat your motion there or if you want Mr Quick to repeat your motion that I second and when was that go ahead yeah the the original motion um uh was to a motion to adopt the budget uh as presented under scenario 2D um with the difference uh between 2.8 Ms and 2.65 Ms being made up by drawing um uh from the drawing that amount from the unassigned fund balance a book oh I was wondering if you're reading a book right now oh I'm reading Robert's Rules there's a lot going on and there was a couple things I wanted to make to make sure I was ready for are we that bad you're reading a book if I know Mark wanted to talk we we had some more conversation so I'd say right now well let's we got a motion in second let's call the role do John do we need to have public comment first now no we had public comment on the resolution before um you don't have to have public comment on every single motion we did public comment on this resolution at the very beginning did we not oh I'm sorry we didn't we did it on the mil we did not do it on come on Sue sorry about that S Miller L lower mumbi I have about 10 pages of comments but I I'll keep it short um I really congratulate you for this disc discussion because I think it's great that you're actually talking about some of the issues that can make our budget better and um I think that that it is important land acquisition we have administrative relief where we have some dry lots that are relatively easy to buy compared to big Ocean Front Lots instead of giving them an administrative relief bu them and and um and keep an administrative relief we have 23 of them left save those for the takings um I I hate the idea of passing a motion to say we're going to use the fund balance when there are so many areas in the budget that we could cut I look at the health insurance that we're paying for uh employees it's $2 million a year that we're paying for health insurance for employees I'd like to know what the policy is that's $115,000 per employee 1200 or $1,250 a month for health insurance that we're paying for our employees are they contributing or are we covering the whole thing what are we covering are we covering families or we what why is that so expensive overtime we have a over a million dollars that we're paying in overtime we have mostly salaried employees that don't get paid over time and yet we have over a million dollars in our budget there are all kinds of big numbers that we could cut I hate to see us cutting the fund balance I do think that we need to look at how much for hurricanes that we need because if we had5 million $7 million for that fund it would give us time to get really a head start on any even major storm and then go buy borrow the money from a local bank because it's going to be reimbursed it's not money that's gone forever it's get getting reimbursed by FEMA it comes right back so it's not like you're you're saving it for giving it away or using it permanently we have $150,000 for landscaping the um Highway that's what the OT does we have we have 100 $1,000 for a gazebo at South Winds Park what do we need a gazebo at South Winds Park for I can just I have 10 pages of ideas we we haven't reviewed how we pay for Wastewater for the for the entire time we've used the same fee we paid to have a study done to determine how we could equalize make the the payment fair so that it's a true Enterprise fund where the people using it are paying for it we got an answer and we put it on the Shelf there are lots of things in this budget that can be improved thank you you're welcome anybody else Stephanie no public comments now closed so we had a motion in a second Steph can you call the role Henry do you understand what it what the motion was I sure do un I just want to say one thing okay go ahead M Miller mentioned that we get the money right back from FEA if you and Henry will remember that after Irma while we were here it was over 3 years before we got money back actually we just got our last Irma payment this year thank you no I know yeah I knew it was it was quite a while so okay so motion and second call the rooll vice mayor Sharon Mahoney yes mayor buddy Pender yes councilman Henry Rosenthal no councilwoman Elizabeth Jolan no councilman Mark Greg no motion fails 2 to three with such Authority back to the drawing board you know what this has been pretty good you know we've all got passion and we're being civil at least I am for a change that what didn't happen when you went to bathroom well so you know we're getting there we're getting there so let's let's let's figure out what we've agreed on and try to build on that and then move the ball forward down the field what would you change in 2D let's take that one besides the land acquisition but that is it this is that is oh I 2D right you said 2don in land acquisition no and where we getting no that's too much that's too much well we started out at 3 million if you'll remember yes I know I know she likes offer half a million I mean a million right 500,000 where is that coming oh I know you never mind you just want to let them figure it out that way so just just one sort of scenario that Sue Miller and and we actually had this happen before where an administrative relief application came before us it was for a dry lot that had hammock on it a lower priced property um near the highway and that bass allocation was awarded to that uh property owner and it's it's the same bass allocation that could have been awarded to someone who owns a million dollar lot or a two or three million dollar lot on the ocean so the the logic there is maybe we should think about if we get a claim or an application or exposure to liability however you want to put it towards paying for one of these bigger more expensive lots and then we should acquire the less lesser ones to kind of conserve that there's pros and cons to that I know the folks that own those lots have been waiting to build their dream home on they going to want to take my head off for saying that but we have to look at what's the greater good for the entire Village so with that in mind you know is so Mark you want to take 500,000 out of the hurricane G fun well I I I like to play poker you know I like that but um you know I don't like taking money out of savings I don't I I hate doing that unless you're forced to like in a desperate situation and I hate exposing the village to have to go out and borrow money in a crisis after a hurricane I mean yeah there's banks around but what if IAM marada gets hit like marathon and Lower Keys or there's not many assets left and you know the bankers look at you know Rubble and they go ah you know I'm not too sure about this buddy so um think about that but to to put let's put a meaningful number in for the land acquisition is 500 enough in the current real estate market sounds a little light to me but I'm negotiating with with you guys I mean we started at three we had it at a million plans B and C have it at a million so we we we we didn't go with d so that leav two other choices flip the coin Henry you got any comment on this no why' you vote no what what would you change what do you want he already said what then I don't remember what' you say he said he didn't agree to it he's making a statement he's going to vote no on anything above the minimum are you serious you're going to vote no on everything but very wellon happen Okay that's what he said all right I take that as a yes so let me look at C and I'm trying to understand your resistance to putting money aside for conservation or takings or acquisition so that you know another Dollar Tree doesn't come into Isam I don't get it I'm just bought the Glen property we paid 450,000 for 90 Acres we got 650 650 first of all B and C do not have a million in land acquisition C on I read did let me finish C has five a half a million so okay maybe I read the wrong can't corrected there and again why can't we I usually do Mark anyhow why can't we figure out a way to fund and we have fund the land acquisition where it can make money I'm don't quit looking at me like I just fell off of the planet what do you mean fund land acquisition well I mean find a way to fund it through I don't know what I'm at least put they trying to figure out a way to be creative why can't we have something to fund it uh like fines or something or I don't know that's the I mean isoken in the budget we could sell something put the money in there I know we don't like selling things we could sell the 15 trucks that are out there church I understand that this is not this is not you're vote for that you're asking us to be the the staff and we aren't staff I mean Rob can find a million dollars hry said he would vote for yes if we sold the church put the money in there okay so let's be serious here um um I understand what you're saying and if we fund the land acquisition at a half a million you're and we've already taken money out of to do let's say the SE thing you're putting so much pressure on on our staff what he gets well I know it's what capable I mean he's got I don't think he's totally capable not I mean that the wrong way I just mean that's a lot to ask somebody no it isn't I mean he's complet completely capable and and look at look at this look we haven't we Haven and just would say that nowhere in this conversation have we taken what we have and reduced it well we can do that in time in the future you know simultaneously Elizabeth I just think it's fundamentally unfair to the manager and the staff to say find a million dollars or find Beyond capable and I have but those are decisions he carries out policy so we got to give him the right direction the policy is I want a million dollars in land acquisition and now it's his job to figure out how to make that happen it's not my job to say stop buying fancy pens and don't give me a highlighter every week well you know I don't know that we can I mean we're kind of down to the wire here because we only have a couple more days before we've got to turn some vote on something and turn it in I I I think what you have is a good idea to you know dig into this a little bit but it's kind at the we're already digging into it pardon me we're already digging into it yeah yeah we're kind of there and we're taking away a planner from Jennifer and Terry no it's right here which one are you no no no I'm looking at C the ones you two voted me down already on D so wait what we did was say we're in support of D but just give us a million more money in the land and and and besides a million that it's already going to cost now you're telling them to find a million and a half it's and it yes yes or no it's pretty simple we have a general fund balance and we have hurricane funds that are high and that is his job okay I'll bend to a half a million that's a big bend for me so but that's a lot go ahead Rob so if that um land acquisition fund goes up to half a million we would pull that from the discretionary sales ctax currently shown as 2.7 75 so that would draw it down to 2.2 whatever 2.2 million um and that's where the 500,000 would come from and everything else would be as we discussed milon where would that come from and let me ask you this well let me ask one question at a time so if if Council Direction were to provide a million in the land acquisition fund I would pull the other 500,000 from the hurricane reserve and pull that down to 7 mark seven 7.7 million instead of 8.2 that's that's where the other half million I was asked the question now he's trying to get you a million okay let me let me just so maybe we do a little blend hear me out the first scenario B obviously my choice has a million dollar for the pool or half a million dollars for the pool and then the other choices had a million would there be any harm if we reduce the pool on scenario C from a million to a half a million to create another half a million available for land acquisition are are we on C or on D because I was working off of D because it sounded like we had General ensus I guess it would work under d as well same question yes right um my my concern about reducing the pool renovation fund to put it into land acquisition is the purpose of it being 1 million from the start and we started at one and kept retreating Down based on Council Direction was we want to avoid a cliff when it comes time to pay for that and that's on a near Horizon that we have to have over $2 million I'm assuming because we haven't got bids or anything yet to do that project so that 1 million was to help us in our next year's budget so we don't have to come up with two right there on the spot I miss that I thought the pool project was a little further into it's it's about a year and a half off so so thinking of it that way 1 million this year and then when we go to adopt the next year budget it's another million if I don't get a million now I'm looking at two in the next one and I'm going to have this conversation or or some other variation of it trying to find money so I think we we might have a either we've got a clear a path to 500 for land acquisition and we have an alternative on the table that gets 1 million for land acquisition and with Council Direction and consensus I think you know one of those two paths I'm hoping uh can get us to conclusion because we have some pretty tight uh regulatory timelines to adhere to with this whole process I'd like to ask a question about if we do you if we find a half a million for land acquisition did I understand you to say that that would come from the hurricane Reserve fund if 500,000 comes from the discretionary sales s tax if we bump up the land acquisition to a million which was uh councilwoman Julian's question where would that money come from I would pull the additional 500,000 from the hurricane Reserve drawing it down to 7.7 or whatever that number would be okay and I'd ask you this the other day and I think you you gave me the yes answer but it was like yes with an aster and that is let's say that we're here a year from now and we get hit with a hurricane would we be able to amend the budget and go back after these funds that were sinking or building or whatever we're doing I mean it's our money and we need it could we then shift that back into the Hurricane fund for emergency purposes yes if we had money sitting there in a land acquisition fund and needed it for emergency purposes The Village counsiling correct me if I'm wrong legal counsel or Treasurer would have the authority to transfer those money back into hurricane response because Public Safety and and emergency response would take priority over many of these other things not the least of which being a fund that's just sitting there waiting for an opportunity to buy land or or whatever the case may be what more can you want what happens if it's already spent well if it's that if it's spent we can't but that's why I'm saying if it hasn't makes zero sense I mean no no no no I the sense is that if we haven't spent it yet if we have if we have it's game over you're losing your Hurricane fund money just so you remember that well I I don't like it but I'm having to deal with pirates so I don't have to much of a choice it's not like this money is sitting in little like little accounts this is fluid money this is this is this is fluid it's not like what I'm saying if we have the money somewhere within our control and we get our you know what kicked we have it available if we decide to reach into different pockets and grab it we don't have to run to the bank and say please help us right true okay okay if it's not spent okay quick you had something you want to say I was just going to chime in about that before and just say you can always amend the budget I mean that's that's really what you're asking can we do a budget amendment to so the same dollars can serve two purposes in that sense is that a fair conclusion budget amendment would just be brought back to the council and I hate it but I'll go along with it so which one so d 2 D well D modified right d with a million dollar in the land acquisition being funded 500,000 from the Hurricane fund and 500 from General Reserve yes okay did you guys get that done okay you want me to make you hear a motion yeah all right I move to approve scenario 2D with a million dollars in land acquisition with 500,000 funding from the hurricane reserve and 500 from general fund from discretionary discretionary ctax I'll second it golly Henry finally H finally finally we're going home can we Miss is popcorn man motivated okay so we have Council we have a motion and we have a second from Mr councilman Rosenthal on 2D am I right 2D modified modified that the 500,000 would be coming from the discretionary sales tax to the land acquisition fund and 500,000 from the Hurricane fund that correct and also the difference between 2.8 Ms to 2.65 Ms will be made up by drawing that from the unassigned fund balance my way all right got my okay so uh Stephanie we have a motion in a second would you call the role please councilwoman Elizabeth Jolan yes councilman Henry Rosenthal yes councilman Mark Greg reluctantly yes vice mayor Sharon Mahoney yes mayor buddy Pender yes motion passes up to zero see and I'm still sitting here too yeah and there's now that the the budget hearing is over um there is one other item um that it's at tab five uh the the um the village risk management um folks had gotten back to um Lisa uh I say earlier this week but I think was late last week uh with the renewal rates um since that uh renewal would kick in October 1 uh we uh brought this for you guys all today after the budget hearing uh it's a resolution of the Village Council of Al Mar Village of violence Florida approving renewal of property casualty and workers compensation policies and coverage and pollution liability from World risk management through public risk management of Florida effec of October 1 2024 authorizing payment of the associated renewal premiums for fiscal year 2024 to 2025 authorizing Village officials to execute required documents authorizing The Village manager to expend budgeted funds and providing for an effective date okay Mr Cole just one thing real quick uh the renewal came in below what we had budgeted just by I think what a point and a half is that about at Lisa so they they they they estimated 16% and it came back at 13 a half can we put that in land acquisition I'm sorry you already voted yeah shoot oh my goodness all right well I have to say you and Elizabeth did some heavy negotiation well you know what it just shows that if you put your mind to it and you keep your cool and you use your brain you can make anything happen right we did it we did it and and Henry even changed his mind because he said no he couldn't go along with it he was acting he was acting he's almost finished with his popcorn he said he wanted to go home did uh did you want to open up public comment if there is any for for this resolution we could sure do we have any public comment uh Stephanie anybody here want to speak all right public comment is now closed so uh I'll move to approve second we have a motion in a second Steph would you call the role please councilman Mark Greg yes vice mayor Sharon Mahoney yes councilman Henry Rosenthal Henry I'll say no councilwoman Elizabeth Jolan yes mayor buddy Pender yes motion passes 4 to one move to go home please adjournment you got it e --------- ##VIDEO ID:j1jSZNN9eyE## e e e e Sharon e e e e e e e e e we going to call this meeting to order this special call meeting to order uh Stephanie would you call the role please mayor buddy Pender here vice mayor Sharon Mahoney here councilman Mark Greg here councilwoman Elizabeth Jolan here councilman Henry Rosenthal yes all right I've asked uh Vince if he'd lead us in the pledge thank you sir to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all okay let's have a quick prayer and we'll get started here thank you Lord for this awesome day that you have made today let us rejoice and be glad in it and father just thank you for all the rain all the beauty that surrounds us the beautiful moon we've been seeing just just all the wonders of uh all your glory amongst us and uh we ask a blessing over each council person representing here tonight all our staff all the people that are here tonight for this meeting for our final budget hearing uh we just ask your blessings to be upon us us and to be upon Alam marada and uh we just thank you again for this beautiful day in your name we pray amen amen amen all right Council any uh requests for deletions uh or emergency additions Elizabeth no vice mayor no no Henry you're good Mark just to be clear this is a special call meeting and not the budget I understand okay you said budget I know but I'm just following the yes I I didn't see the script I'm sorry all right all right so with that being said uh Stephanie do we have anybody we're going to open public comment this is uh this is general public comment yes ma'am similler pertaining to to this agenda zom Miller lower mumbi you have had four outstanding planning groups make thoughtful and thorough proposals and then on Thursday make live presentations and answer questions about their organizations I would have thought that was enough at the beginning of the meeting Thursday the village attorney explained that the cone of silence was still in effect the term cone of Silence refers to the stri restrictions found in section 28757 Florida Statutes the only communication with the staff elected officials between the release of the solicitation and the end of the 72-hour period following the agency decision must be in writing with the procurement officer the exception at a publicly noticed meeting when the biders are invited to make their presentations otherwise there must be no communication silence I believe the zone of Silence was violated not by any of the organization's bidding but rather by the mayor the mayor left the meeting twice to go outside with candidates when questioned about that one time he said he just wanted to ask more questions another time he said he want to get business cards which was it once he left the public meeting I'm willing to bet he was not silent we don't know what Communications may have occurred outside the P public meeting it's ultimately bad optics for any government organization to allow a cone of silence violation to go unpunished we are all concerned about improving trust in government being more transparent if you want to avoid trouble then follow the general rule that all Communications about a procurement must be in writing to the procurement officer and then after the vote was taken resulting in a 4 to1 vote the meeting was adjourned and the camera was turned off but not all members of council staff and public left the meeting room the mayor lobbied the members of council questioning their selection isn't that a violation of the Sunshine Law to have multiple members of council discussing the selection vote no longer during a public meeting perhaps not if the vote was already taken but now it's up for reconsideration days after the mayor lobbied for a change ignoring the requirements of the Sunshine Law none of the candidates should be punished they are all outstanding and provided our community with excellent options the mayor did not follow the law and our procedures he should not be allowed to vote on this issue thank you so Mr Quick Stephanie hold up for anybody else Mr Quick can I go can I respond or should I wait until public comments over yeah I mean I I mean public comment is not a necessarily a back and forth if you would if you would like to respond anything Mr Horton can you come to the mic please can you come to the mic I just when I went outside all did I ask I told the people thank you when you were talking to that first guy Jason what did I do didn't I ask you to get me a business card you asked for a business card and then you said Don would you make sure you grabbed me a business card and you left thank you Don thank you okay thank you all right and is it is it against the law to go out and and ask for a business card to say to thank the people and ask for a business card okay uh I got one for each Council for Elizabeth vice mayor myself Henry and Mark and I passed them out so I wanted to make that clear for the record thank you very much uh Stephanie who's next Deb Gillis followed by Van Caden headed and Don Horton my comment was uh directly related to the RFP so do you want it now or do you want it later it's not general public comment this is pertaining to this tab oh this meeting I thought you changed it no no no this doesn't have anything to do with the budget hearing no no it pertains to this meeting but I didn't know whether or not generally general public comment means that we're talking about the park not not the item on the agenda I don't care either way John can you answer that question yeah I mean depending on where things go there might there it's possible there could be a substantive motion which would require uh public comment for it but I I would say to air on the side of caution and and give your comment now just in case there's not a substantive um motion that's made that's fine I'll be happy to do that just want to make sure I knew what I was doing okay so um I'm Deb Gillis I uh live in Isam Rada and I would like to uh commend you for rehearing this meeting tonight uh you took in a lot of information last week uh when you had the presentations and as I said then I thought it was wise for you to absorb everything and compare it to what you read and then if you had further questions you could we actually review the meeting and see what they actually said in person so um I am very happy that you decided to at least have a conversation about it tonight thank you thank you who's next St Don Horton thank you mayor and Council for the record I'm Don Horton and I just want to thank you for having this special call meeting tonight I think it's an important meeting I think that there was a lot of banter about back and forth on the uh Council level whether the vote should have been taken on Thursday night or not and things should have waited one one thing I noticed that was missed though was after all of the presentations that were done and completed and you'd heard although you'd seen previous scoring from the written word uh you really didn't have a chance to uh discuss the spoken word and you had four great presentations and four very qualified uh Consultants that are willing to do our comp plan which is a very important comp plan one thing uh the mayor did uh after each presentation was asked Jennifer if she had any questions and I think that was an important U question to ask but I think all of y'all in a way failed at the end after all the presentations were done to just see if there was an opinion from your uh planning director um as I said I think that um this part of what we're doing tonight is very important I think that the discussions that you might have had with your constituents and your uh folks in the city between Thursday and U whenever this special call uh meeting was asked for was uh well deserved to to bring it back in front of council and I thank youall very much for doing that because I think the consideration has to be done that way and give the the public a chance to speak about it so thank youall very much thank you who's next Joe wishme you have three minutes yes thank you Mr Mayor and Council just when we thought finally this Council made a decision on a very important item voila we now have to rehear and revisit the applicants for the comp plan you have had the proposals for months and then you heard all of the presentations what more could you possibly hope to gain by reopening this issue that you voted on four to one I think that you should stick to your guns and stay with your decision especially with the controversy with mayor Pender going outside to speak with representatives from potential candidates it is on video where you actually came in and said you went outside to ask more questions if you have any doubts review the video after being reminded by John quick about the Code of Silence still being in effect you still heard and discussed and voted on this item period end of story stick with your guns thank you anybody else step okay Dave Pekovic you have three minutes hello Council Dave petkovich Lower Matt I I just want to follow through Mr whar um if you can go back and play the tape it's at exactly 7:16 mayor Pender says he went outside Sharon asks him why he went out and he says I went outside and I talked to him more now I know later he said something about passing out cards but I think it's a violation either way while a votes underand now I believe that this is a violation and I think this is going to be a tainted vote and I think mayor Pender needs recuse himself from this vote because it is going to be a tainted vote and um I hope everybody goes back and plays this because that's what happened the cone the silence was broke regardless of what he said later about a card both things were said so we have to we have to go with precaution thank you uh Steph anybody else no excuse me I have a card in madam nice try I'm van Cadenhead I was here for that meeting and I too was glad that uh four people got together and made a decision and but in keeping with the standard operating procedure of the council uh the decision did not stand there was you know second guessing and and waffling back and forth and people were influenced after the vote and uh I'm I'm sorry and I I really thought we had four really good candidates and I really don't care if you want to rote uh uh for another firm to do this is fine my problem is with mayor Pender uh Mr Pender went outside twice and when and and whether there was impropriety or just the sense and the uh uh appearance of impropriety is not important the importance is that that we're looking for trust and we're looking for for uh Clarity and we're looking for transparency and and I called up Mr Quick twice on Friday afterwards to discuss it with him and ask uh what his opinion was and what he planned to do about it and uh I he didn't return either of my calls he was in a meeting both times I guess with his assistant and neither one of them could could call back to the to the taxpayers and give it any kind of an answer and um I think that when he went out and said well you know um Sharon called him on it at the time and said what were you talking about out there and he says well I just went out for refreshment well you know like you were going to the bathroom or something that's three separate answers that I've heard you give about what was going on you might not have done anything wrong buddy but it's the fact that it looked really bad and it looked really bad right after he told you that there was a cone of silence and you decided to abgate that and forget that and do whatever you wanted to with it so I also think you should recuse yourself from this vote because if you do not it will be a tained vote and if someone were to happen to file an Ethics complaint on you for what was obvious on the on the tape the evidence is in the public record now for and and in people's minds that were here and witnessed it even if Mr Quick uh can't seem to remember uh exactly what happened we remember exactly what happened and it wasn't proper and so if you would be so kind as to recuse yourself and let whoever wants to reconsider the thing vote among the four that voted before I'd be happy with that but if if you decide you want to vote on this I think uh you're going outside the parameters of of the law as as stated by our attorney Mr quick thank you sir anybody else okay public comment is now closed hey Mr Quick is is there is it something that you can't go tell somebody thank you and asked for a business card nothing nothing was discussed no money no nothing no this can you do this this isn't I happen to know where some of the people where these people work at okay where the counties they're working in I'll I'll just be very brief because I know you guys only have less than 30 minutes now um based on the facts that I know I don't think there was a con of Silence violation uh a con of even if there was a con of Silence violation it doesn't what that would do is that would ex that would um disqualify an applicant it doesn't disqualify somebody a member of council from uh from being able to vote uh but asking for a business card during the public meeting when they're making the present I I don't see that as a cone of silence issue thank you and I want the public to also know okay Mr Cole did you not didn't you come up here and tell me that we weren't voting on this we weren't supposed to vote on that but all of a sudden somebody we decided so uh we were under the impression that's why I wanted to wait until Tuesday to vote on this so we can make an intelligent decision by reviewing okay the the all the information but to sit here and make this big a decision okay based on on the presentations which we had staff that had already we had a committee that had already voted on this okay but Council some a few Council people wanted to come back before Council and we agreed but I was under the impression we weren't voting for it on Tuesday night it was not planned for Council to vote on it councilman Rosenthal motioned at the meeting to ask that uh The Village Council consider voting on it that night so that was a change at the table okay thank you very much okay we can move on then all right public comment is closed okay further discussion okay consideration RFP 2410 comprehensive plan selection Mr Quick yeah and and I'll I'll be very quick as as as I can because I know we have a hard stop at 5:00 and and it has a uh need 10 minutes to reset everything for the new meeting so um if there's going to be if any if Council would uh if a council member who is would be interested in make a motion of reconsideration I just want uh for reconsideration I just wanted to go through the process to make sure everybody's aware it would actually be three separate motions that would be required first would be uh a motion to uh ask the council to wave the council procedures um to allow for a motion for reconsideration tonight and a vote tonight then would be um uh would be a motion would be an actual motion for reconsideration that would need to be made if if that first motion was approved um then there would be a motion for reconsideration that could be made by one of the four members who voted in favor of the original motion anyone could second it but the only P only one of the four members who voted in favor could actually make the motion um then uh in terms of substance if that motion for reconsideration is then um is approved then it would require an actual motion to select a um uh an applicant or a bidder in the RFP and that would be based on their substantive submissions relevant experience criteria in the RFP the evaluation committee's deliberation and recommendations presentations and um and then any other relevant info I I might not have um specifically mention but I'm trying to go through quickly um for the first two motions those are procedural motions they would not require public comment if there is if we do get to the third motion where there's an actual motion to select somebody public comment would be required on the third motion okay thank you did everybody understand that all righty I want to make a comment okay go ahead Henry as you may or may not recall I was at the meeting with the staff they chose two applicants to interview I can't came back to this meeting and requested that all five applicants be contacted for an interview one did not care to participate but we had four and I would think having going through this much paperwork in reference to their applications if you did it and then you saw the presentations we're supposed to be five qualified people to make a determination in the best interest of the city not in the best interest of us the best interest of the city four people voted that way and I would think that would stand I can't believe that somebody called a special meeting to review what we just went through a meeting before that just shows that maybe we're not as good at it as we think we seem to think we are when it comes time to review though I suspect we're going to review them one more time I is that correct Mr manager I mean I guess first thing first and foremost there would need to be a motion to wave the the procedures and then a motion to reconsider I mean I don't think there's any reason to go through uh anything if if we don't get past those first two two hurdles because at that point unless we get past those first two hurdles it it doesn't reopen the the the consideration is not reopened at that point so I guess we would have to rely on the person who requested the special meeting to follow through on his request or her request is that correct yeah I mean anybody could make the motion but but yes yeah okay well I have to tell you it's not going to come from me okay can I say a few words um I think I owe it to everyone here to explain how we got here tonight because I think I am the Catalyst that started the process forward based on the facts as I know them so after we left the meeting on Thursday uh I was elated that we finally made a decision uh but you know there was a little uh wouldn't say doubt but certainly difficulty in making the decision because all four candidates were excellent and there were just different flavors of Excellence if I could say it that way uh however the next day I received a couple of calls from uh residents um asking questions about why we voted the way that we did and I realized that I had made an error I had misunderstood what one of the candidates said about um reducing his fee and I thought it was uh the the fee was going to be half of 120,000 instead it was half of 220 or 240,000 so uh to me that was a uh a negative factor uh but it was a it was a misunderstanding on my part and um that influenced how I felt about things so I contacted the village manager and the village attorney and asked if there was uh if the procedures would allow us to um have another vote because we have this in our rules and did we meet the time frames and they confirmed that the answer was yes and I said that I would like to do that formally and made that request um I believe what happened afterwards because I don't know this for a fact but at least two other council members had to uh go along with that and that makes three and so I think that did happen and that's how we're here tonight so if you would like to lay blame or praise I am the one to receive both I'm the one that got us here tonight so uh you know it's it's uh this is one of the most important decisions that we're going to make we said that before I feel like maybe we were a little Hasty on Thursday we have some time we weren't necessarily I mean I there was nothing in the agenda that said we were going to vote on Thursday so in terms of transparency and fairness and just sleeping on and taking a little time to make the best decision we can and have a little more dialogue about it I wanted to be here and have this conversation so I will make a motion that we wave the procedures uh for um specifically to um allow this possibility of a motion for reconsideration tonight well I'm going to Second it because I said Thursday night at the meeting that I was on the fence between 1 and two and I was and I don't feel it was fair because you guys had already made up your minds that was shoved into a situation which I liked number the people jardino that are here and I also lik Jason King the first one and I just feel like I'm going to Second it because I agree with Mark that this was shoved down my throat I feel and um I spent the weekend also thinking about it and I agree that we need to reconsider our vote so there's your second I just wanted to it was a motion to wave the council feed go W the allow us the V yes okay John do we need to have any further discussion uh no I mean I unless there is some but there's a motion and a second on the table okay all right anybody else want to say anything all right uh Stephanie would you call the role please councilman Mark Greg yes vice mayor Sharon Mahoney yes councilman Henry Rosenthal no councilwoman Elizabeth Jolan no and mayor buddy Pender yes motion passes 3 to2 all righty so Mr Quick so if so the the procedures have been waved so if anybody would like to make a motion to reconsider it would be a motion to reconsider uh the selection of a um a vendor in relation to um RFP 2410 and the decision that was made on SE setember 12th uh 2017 I'll make that motion as John just phrased it and and council member Greg can make that motion as he voted on the prevailing side of the original motion okay do I hear a second I'm sorry can you repeat that again that went right over my head it was a motion to reconsider the decision uh selecting the vendor for uh on September 12th for RFP 24-10 we second it any further discussion all right uh Mr Quick do we need to have any public comment on this or not on that no but if there is ultimately a motion to a substantive motion to select you will need to have public comment on that okay okay anything else Henry all the question okay uh Stephanie call the rooll please we have a motion in second councilman Mark Greg yes vice mayor Sharon Mahoney yes councilman Henry Rosenthal no councilwoman Elizabeth Jolan no mayor buddy Pender yes motion passes 3 to2 all right Mr Quick help us out well now we're we're back in in the place we were on September 12th um before the vote was taken uh so there's currently not a vendor selected uh for um uh a winning bidder I should say in response to RFP 2410 um so the council would need to uh make a selection for the winning bidder um for for that um which were we if you recall we had the four uh uh bids that came down um on the 12 made their presentations um and uh and I believe there was there was a fifth who ultimately withdrew correct um so so it's just the four that were that presented can you Mr qu can you please give us one through four so we know make sure we are on the same page yes it was um and if you remember they presented in alphabetical order so I'll read them in alphabetical order uh was able City East Calvin gordano Chen Moore and Inspire placemaking thank you okay Council I to say something what's that John do we do need to public comment uh yeah whether you do it now or before the vote but yeah you will need public comment on let's open public comment Deb Gillis Deb gisada this is where I was didn't know whether I was supposed to speak now or then or some other time whatever um after I went home and I reviewed the tapes because I did miss one of the presentations and um they were all excellent so nobody should be criticized for their presentations or their their their um reports that they gave you um but I I really did like number one able City uh they they were very excited about this they they brought an enthusiasm that we need in this town we need uh creativity in this town we've talked about how we've changed and how things are different here and I I I personally I believe that they would do a great job thank you thank you Deb anybody else uh step this is unbelievable um I think that Mr Quick has made an egregious mistake and I think that uh if he doesn't get a centure from the Florida bar for his interpretation of the breach of the Sunshine Law And also the breach of the clone of Silence then something is extremely wrong with our justice system because uh you committed uh sir in my humble opinion a a breach of the cone of silence and one of the the byword of of the legal profession is if it's not um impropriety it's the appearance of impropriety and most certainly three people would not have called you on that if it wasn't the appearance of impropriety and for the fact that Mr Quick covers up for you on that is absolutely uh appalling and and he should be examined by a a a board of actual lawyers who review what you did and what he said about it because there's no way in the world that that this should go on any any further than here and and I'm I'm really Disturbed that uh four of you made a decision and you could not keep to that decision there was still waffling and second guessing and and uh a great question about uh the the uh efficacy of this procedure thank you very much thank you anybody else Marne Joe wishme go ahead Stephanie oops yes I would uh like to say that I I too listen to all the presentations and I also was impressed with the number one uh not only with his enthusiasm and willing to start right away but being a smaller company so sometimes you get a lot better service especially because the owner himself was the one giving the presentation he also discussed lots of public input and having lots of of meetings so that each step along the way the public would have a say and they could listen to our concerns and they could hopefully adapt those into the plan that they are making up the last thing was he was the only one who said that at the same time that he was working on this he would also uh write the new ldrs which have to coincide so therefore we're getting basically two things done for the price of one so I hope you would also keep that into consideration when you do your vote thank you ahead thank you mayor and councel it's very rare that I agree with Joe wishme but uh I think that number one put on an awesome presentation I think the Innovation and the and the spirit that they uh uh that they that they showed here was uh impressive I I think that we need to get a little bit outside the box on the uh regular old planning stuff uh I've been involved with uh two other comprehensive plan rewrites as the building official for the county and for here and I was extremely impressed with number one in the presentation and I thank you very much by the way he doesn't live on the bridge and he has a a a local cell phone number and um and I think he's uh uh probably the right one thank you anybody else Stephanie no okay public comment is now closed okay hey John can you just explain to the public that I since I voted no on this I have nothing to do with it I I don't have it it has to come from a prevailing to bring this back I had nothing to do with this motions to reconsider can only be made by anybody on the I just want the public to understand that I thought I confessed that earlier you did yes you did yeah okay because even councilman Rosenthal the other night on Thursday night he says I mean Henry said something about he didn't even know why we're doing this he already knew who he wanted you know and I just like there's just a lot of confusion just a reminder we do have a budget hearing um starting at 5:00 if a decision is not made what I would recommend is that we recess this and then pick it back up um after the budget hearing okay Council or another date Elizabeth do you want to you need to say something what would you like there there's no conversation on the table is someone making a suggestion for another another group is that what's going on here my impression so yes let me someone whoever wants to do this what what would you like Mark um I I think I'll just try to get the conversation started and I'll do so uh I guess addressing you Elizabeth and Henry because I think I'm I'm leaning towards a vote that may upset you um but I'm still open-minded but um this it hasn't uh I I have not missed the importance of this as uh I said it before I think one of the most consequential things that we this may be it right here this may be the biggest thing we do in our term on the council and I I've had the benefit of thinking about planning things since I started working with the council uh about 25 years ago off and on so my perspective may be a little different but um I think that the the companies that we looked at I said they're all excellent each one has a little bit different approach than the others and in in the time that we had since we voted last I really kind of Dove deep in my thoughts about what we need and where we need to go and how we need to get there and so uh you know the margin of difference between each one is fractions of a point so it's pretty close but I I could say this in just a generalization that three of them had more of a conventional approach and you know we've seen some of their work they gave us examples and so we would know what to expect Isam marada is not a conventional place and we may need to do something unconventional and so AEL City in my view my opinion gave us a an unconventional option and I won't be here to participate in it and Sharon you will and who knows who else will be here there most of them are in the room and so I I wanted to give them the best Advantage the the the most sharpest working tools that they can to get the job done and uh this is not anything um I I'm doing this for someone that comes after me and not for myself is what I'm trying to say so um I did make an error as I told you and that weighed heavily on me and and that's what caused me to give the manager a call on Friday morning so I I will make a motion that we reconsider our vote and replace Calvin Gardino with able City East as our um selected vendor for the comp plan can can I make a friendly amendment to that suggestion so the reconsideration the motion to reconsideration was already done so it would just be a motion to select um able City East as the uh my my motion would be amended to select able City East as our uh vendor for the comp plan uh RFP I hear a second well I said all along I was on the fence and I will be sitting up here I don't know if I'm crazy or insane for two more years but I liked able City East as well and I like the second one and I went along with you guys because as a fourth vote because I saw that was the way was going and I liked both of them but I will second your motion for able sitting so I have some discussion go ahead um I appreciate that we're taking this seriously I think that it is a pretty serious conversation um I know that in my decision last week I um spent some time analyzing all of the groups and and um in order to come to the decision so I want to talk for a second I'm um about able City and some of my concerns that I hope I I don't know if if you were aware but um I hope you consider because there's some of the things that that I um that concern me about that group and and goes without saying that they're all very qualified but when it came down to looking at the at the um narrow differences you may recall reading the plans and I'm looking at their plan the able City's plan right now on my computer I don't I didn't bring my computer tonight um Jason has been in business for one year he established his business in 2024 and that's in his document now he has been a planner for many years but his new company able City East has been an it's written in his document and established in 2024 he's bringing in Consultants which is is a standard of practice and I understand that um Ninigret Partners Street plan collaborative um the horley Whitten group and and their body of work and in in the presentation is from Texas from San Antonio Texas all of them and um and as you read through his proposal um um he references work that's been done across the country and some internationally um very little in Florida and um again while I recognize that most everyone you know they're highly qualified groups um I am concerned about that I want a to choose planners that are very familiar with our Coastal Community um this this is this decision ision is not a combative one at all among anyone here on this dis but I don't um I don't feel comfortable choosing a group that is populated by contractors whose main body of work is out of Texas I don't know why we do that when you've got an organization that is extremely consider extremely qualified in Florida in our uh looking at Coastal Community sea sea rise uh sea level rise um and and our area of State critical concern which is the group that I chose I don't I don't know why um I I don't know why we would choose able City East considering the alternative and I and I'm I wonder if there's something about this Texas experience that you think is particularly relevant to what's going on here in marada that that that you're you're that I'm missing no what what I heard is that Jason if I understood it right worked in Monroe County in the past and also lived here and lives in Miami and his headquarters are in Miami and you're correct I his his company is only a year or two old but he's worked in South Florida for something like 17 years so I mean you read the document right I read them all I went back and read it all over again in the interim here so is that I mean he's primarily his his talent because this is not a oneman job it's not I mean it's not he's not going to be doing all this work is is coming from Texas I I don't I don't it's almost like did I mean I don't know why where how is that relevant I me understand that I would just respectfully counter that with the fact that he wrote two books on climate change and planning well and I think that what happens in the in in an area of of professional professional area is anyone has access to those they can read those and and perhaps you know any of the groups other groups that came to the Das they certainly have access to them but what we're talking about is the work that's going to be done that's going to be led by the community this is an this this community is going to lead these conversations so I'm just extremely puzzled by why where the where this Texas component appeals to you and I I'm not hearing it but maybe maybe you can help me understand that I'm not focusing on the Texas it it what you're focusing on the individual no no on the on the body of experience that all of the people have but there's there's more than it's it's more than just um one person doing one job there's it's almost like building a house where you have a general contractor and you have the subcontractors who each have a specialty and so it's it's common in different businesses and and now I've understood since I asked about it it's common in the planning Community if that is such a thing to bring in specialists in in the form of a team and they all have done a little bit of that in one way or another so at first I was off-put by that I'll be honest to tell you but when I learned it that's kind of the way it gets done and that there are advantages to doing it that way excuse me a second while you're just pause on that I'm I'm just concerned that our mayor is not listening to this well we probably have to pause anyway because we're over the he was asking Rob and I about the time in terms of with the budget meeting started and and what we were talking about and what I recommended is if if there was going to be a vote in say the next 5 minutes we could continue and move forward but if it was going to take longer I would recommend that we um recess and start after the budget hearing what's the consensus of council I don't want to hurry anyone the discussion is over well I think the discussion we should just vote because you're you're trying to talk convince everybody for your let me just finish for your opinion and that's your opinion I find it very uh upsetting that you keep targeting businesses small businesses cuz every one of my businesses I've started as a small business and people have a right to start their own business for some reason that seems to be a focus for you and Texas seems to be a focus where I I just say we just move this forward well I'd like to respond to that accusation of me targeting small businesses that's what it seems like and um I hear you because it's clear um I have a small business I am I've always been self-employed my concern here is that this individual starting a company may or may not have qualified relationships with these in these contractors we don't know because he's only been in business with this I mean I have no idea his relationship with these people it's something I would keep in mind as you move forward with this pretty important decision and what's also interesting to me is how at our last meeting the public came up in support of our decision and now the couple of public comments have somehow changed their opinion it's just fascinating um so I'll leave it at that I'm prepared to vote go ahead Henry well I look at things a little differently everybody is an actor think about it everybody is an actor and when you want something you figure out a way to get it and where did that start it started when you were three 4 two and you ref you were refused a cookie but you figured out how to get that cookie have it took a physical presentation to get it you got it I've gone through many many closings of millions of dollars I've seen all the acting that everybody has ever done when you were reviewing these four applicants what was the number one thing you said everybody and in the audience as well look at the amount of energy that this guy has has and he did but that is just style of the delivery it has nothing to do with the content of what we're looking for nothing just style you know the problem is you know you look at the delivery and you mix it up with the content and you can't do both you have to separate them every attorney in the world has his own way of acting especially in court everyone it's a mistake to to make your decision on the presentation and not get involved with the content and where is the content my contact was with jordino they've been here before they've worked in this County their background is superb their presentation didn't need a lot of hulah but they had content I trust what I'm saying is getting home to some of you you know you know I do shows and you know I do subliminal suggestions I'm going to tell tell you something now I use 20 25 people on the show I am on stage by myself for an hour and 12 minutes and those people that I brought up on stage I interviewed them as I walked through the audience prior to the show I know exactly who I was going to choose and if I had to use ainal suggestion I'd do it life is not that difficult so all I'm saying is when you're voting vote for the one with the content not the actor because we're all actors believe it or not we all we are all actors at one point of the night throughout the day we're acting you get stopped by a cop on the road you're acting you know what to say and what not to say you're acting it goes on forever and started when you were three years old you figured out how to get get that cookie that's my only comment I hope you take it to heart content is the number one deciding factor in this decision not because he's a good guy and not because you want to give him a break because you only been there for a year whatever your decision is but the content is what we what we're doing here everything from here on out as contingent of what we do here with content content content not because he's a good guy I voted against some of the good guys my friends I voted against them in the last four years you think I've enjoyed that but I have because I felt it's right so I'm just asking you for a look at the content that's all with that I'll pass okay Mr Qui yeah I would just say given the time we should either Vote or recess until after the budget hearing okay it's Council what do we I don't have anything to add okay are we are you finished Elizabeth no I didn't I am finished did you guys have anything else you'd want to say I noticed you didn't say anything no I mean I know there's some other there's other vendors there Mr Cole and I had a talk and and but I'm not uh I don't have anything to say either we we we we have this move this on to after or we we do it now right correct and and we definitely need to do it one one or the one way or the other now unless there's no further discussion I think we must vote okay you made a motion and Sharon second it correct correct okay uh Stephanie would you call the role please councilman Mark Greg yes vice mayor Sharon Mahoney yes councilman Henry Rosenthal repeat the motion please it was a motion to select able City East as the uh uh vendor for RFP 24-10 and if you recall this is to select them there still is a contract that needs to come back thank you I vote no thank you councilwoman Elizabeth Jolan Noe mayor buddy Pender yes motion passes 3 to2 okay I believe let's see so uh we don't have any mayor council Communications there's nothing else do I hear an adjournment yeah the only thing you know the manager will obviously uh when whenever resolution is signed he'll then negot begin negotiations with the uh uh uh the the selected vendor yeah okay thank you do I hear in ger okay motion to adjourn all right thank you Mark what 10 minutes yeah