##VIDEO ID:xoaO_vh6low## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e stand welcome to the December 16th Jackson Township planning board all notices have been appropriately uh made public and noticed in the appropriate fashion according to the opma uh M chairman all yours roll call please Mr Brey here Mr Bernstein Mr marzo here Mr heler here Mr rker Miss Rose here Mr Tremor Mr weard Mr wall here Mr Sullivan here Dr Campbell here uh a uh motion for payment of voucher for recording secretary please sove Sullivan second roll call please Mr brei yes Mr Bernstein yes Mr marzo yes Mr heler yes Mr rker oh sorry he's not here Miss Rose yes Mr chmer yes Mr weart yes Mr wall yes Mr Sullivan yes Dr Kim yes uh we'll take a motion motion for approval of the December 2nd regular meeting minutes please motion hel second Sullivan we'll have a roll call vote Please Mr Bernstein yes Mr marzo yes Mr heler yes Miss Rose yes Mr wall yes Mr Sullivan yes Dr Campell yes uh we have any engineering or planning matters gentlemen okay that's that will help all right any resolutions uh none at this time all right any legal matters none at this time any changes to the agenda schedule how nice uh we do have um a master plan report from M dear up please good evening the master plan is 90% complete um we are still waiting on the required affordable housing portion which we expect shortly we'll continue to update you as things develop thank you thank you okay that's it all right what do we got first we have um Mr shanowitz welcome good evening Madame chair members of the board Ron shimanowitz on behalf of the applicant HW Jackson LLC we're back before you tonight uh seeking Clary and final site plan approval we were last before you in June of this year at that point there was some recommendations for revised plans uh we have done that in September we submitted revised plans we have new review letters uh and we are prepared to uh describe to the board what changes have been made to the plan great happy to have you back and your first witness our first witness is Mr Walt Hopkins who's to my left and he was previously sworn and qualified in this matter I'm going to turn it over he get to be sworn again but we we'll accept his qualifications please all right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth yes I do right please state your name and spell your last of the record sure Walter Hopkin ho o k i n Walt I'm going to turn it over to you I think the most important thing for for the board is to summarize what's changed in the plan since we were last here in in June and there were a couple think cleanup items I would call them as well sure um just waiting to get our application so we're we're Jackson um HW Jackson this was church so I I think this might be the um wrong application lot five lot five 2603 Lots 5 and 22 yes ma'am there we go Jackson so maybe the the uh the rendering the top file please Walt this is a new exhibit correct yes it is it's a color rendered version of our site plan submitted to the board last revised September 4th 2024 and I believe we're up to exhibit A3 so that that would be exhibit A3 so we as a result of the last meeting the board had some uh suggestions and strong opinions about uh the architectural elements as well as um fire access so we we took those suggestions we met with your professionals and we've come up with the plan that you see before you the two buildings in the front remain essentially the same and what we did in the rear was consolidate what was uh three buildings into one um building back to back I I don't mean to cut you off you're testifying as an engineer and a planner or just an engineer yes as both an engineer and a planner and a planner yeah so that uh those three buildings were Consolidated into one back to back full circulation was provided around that building in the rear um there was an emergency access that's been extended out to right to Bow Road uh with a grassp as requested um previously we were able with this layout to pick up a few more um parking spaces scattered throughout the site uh as the board may recall there was um there's there's parking in front of each unit um but previously there was uh 15 parking spaces scattered throughout the site we've been able to increase that to 28 uh and we do comply with your ordinance this resulted in an increase in both impervious and building coverage however we're well under what's required by your ordinance so no relief is required um there were other updates technical issues as far as uh lighting we addressed those comments as well uh architecturally U maybe if we could switch to that um the architect uh is out of state so I'm going to describe to the board what uh what was done so maybe I think there was an architectural rendering may have been the third file I think it might be part of that file but the last sheet you scroll up there we go yeah and Walt just keep the record clear this is part of the plan set that was submitt correct yes it was okay so we'll we'll not mark this this is previously submitted so the um the color P pette has been updated to a more modern um set of colors both the siding excuse me all the siding the split Place block the overhead door and the window trim has all been updated as far as color the height of the um block has been also raised to um the top of the windows there were also four window windows that were added to uh there's one building that uh backs up to um West Commodore Boulevard so there were four windows that were provided to to soften that as well uh and the buildings will all be solar ready as well I also have in my notes it may have been uh a question that was raised to the architect about um exterior Mechanicals and I'm able to confirm that there's no exterior Mechanicals proposed with um with these applic these units those are the the changes that we've made I don't know if you want me to to stop there um see if there's any questions let's let's see if anyone on the board has questions Mr Tremor I think it was you who showed a good deal of interest in the uh circulation I can I have reduced versions if that would make it easier of the um rendering does anybody else need sure we'll take them okay it's either that or I'm going to wrap Christmas gifts with them so we could share share this is just do you have a a building a frontage architecturals I think we might like to see that we're good thank you we had this in uh simple black and white but it's so much nicer in color there's a secondary ESS out the back on right White deau Road much better that's what you were looking for yeah this way we there secondary just in case put it on put it on the record here please Mr chairman yeah it's good to have a secondary egress just in case there's an incident in the front because secondary access and you could also have two incidents at one time and it gives access to so that's great we don't have yes especially in a project of this size yes I think uh that was a very good suggestion and it will uh make the fire department very happy so I'm I'm looking at these renderings and of course the um the big building the main building is stunning I I mean it's really beautiful the other one um I'm not so thrilled with this one it doesn't go with the other with the what is it Building C which is exceptional um this one so just so we understand your comment uh is it sort of which which building are you concerned about the one facing West Commodore Boulevard so that's building a if I have that correct yes and that's this one yes ma'am rather austere don't don't you think Mr wall compared quite I I'd hate to use the word boring but I will could could we spice it up a little bit there be because it's right on our main road that's that's our main street through town and it it has zero character so I a couple things of course the answer is yes we can do something uh not being an architect I'm I'm not sure what to offer I will also just comment that we do have um Landscaping that uh your professionals have asked us to beef up as well so that will help break it up um but I can offer to to U work that out with your professionals between the architect I I have all the faith in the world with our professionals and their good taste but this building lacks any kind of uh character and it's going on a road that is heavily traversed I understand anyone else with something Mr TR are buildings A and B already existing or are you doing them too A and B are proposed yes I'm sorry second both buildings A and B are proposed they're proposed they're not built yet correct do you think we can do some re access to them too um it it's it's possible and and here's my conflict both of those um right so we have a little bit of a conflict so for building a we want to spice it up but then um provide some sort of a access to the rear or that may conflict with that um same thing with Building B we kind of have a narrow strip between um Building B and the the the property line there well I mean as a matter of compromise how about just grass pavers this way they have to get back here they can um I've never fought a fire but I just would remind you that these are also suppressed M uh my client is kicking me from behind under the table and saying please agree to the man nice job so grass pavers if that's acceptable again just as long as we can show we have access we're good okay thank you that would be great appreciated thank you you know I I can understand having a building that is not visible from the road being modest but something that is facing the road really needs to have some character and uh I I have faith in uh our professionals that they'll work with you to get something more palatable for the community thank you okay any other questions from uh the board how about the professionals what do we have gentlemen just quickly I'll agree with the applicant um they have revised the plan in accordance with the um the board's um comments we do have an emergency access the right right to Bow there is a little bit increase in square footage but parking complies there's no variances so it's a it's pretty clean application the only question I would have um regarding um the septic systems that are proposed um this is adjacent to a wetland area and I'm just wondering um if there's been any consideration given to the high water table um elevation that us is associated with Wetland areas so so typically we do um submit for those as a condition of approval I can tell you our office does a lot of septic designs and we're very confident that we can get um where they're shown we can they're feasible and U they will work okay thank and the other comment was um have we done a cut fill um analysis uh we did a rough one I don't know that I have the numbers with me but there will be import okay um if the um export is more than a th000 um cubic yards than a soil removal permit is required um it can be handled through resolution compliance but just so the applicant knows that'll be an outside condition or an outside approval that he'll be required to get if his soil removal is exceeds 1,000 okay that's that's all thank you Mr Peters thank you um Mr Hopkin at the last hearing we hear testimony regarding a variance for sight um I'm not sure if I did but I'm glad you're bringing it up I just want to reiterate that we that's why the chairperson keeps me awake yeah there there I think there's a typo on the plan that may not have been corrected if it wasn't it will be we are not seeking a sign variants perfect that detail will be revised the the only other comment from our our report um can you talk about um Solid Waste storage dumpsters for the site so we may have touched on that the last time um so the applicant uh operates another similar facility in Lakewood and what they do there they'll do here as well where each tenant will have their own um small for lack of better term dumpster roll rolling container that they keep inside of their building and on a designated day they will roll it out and a private hauler will um we remove it and then it goes back into the building okay so my my question to the applicant and to the board do we need to have that a in the resolution and B do we need to go to the level of having it as um something in the form of a deed something that goes with the leases um my concern simply is Mr Shay decides to run a shredding business out of one of the units and says screw it and puts a three yard dumpster on the other side of the parking lot next to a dead tree and now we've got a Code Enforcement issue so while I'm I'm sure the applicant I'm familiar with the applicants work we'll take care of it our job is to make sure that we we do the best job we can when we turn this over to the township employees who have to manage it out in the field and so the inclusion of dumpsters inside the building is a great solution to not having them outside the building but do we need to have that next level of as a condition and we have no objection to such condition in the resolution and that we consent that there'd be a provision in our tenant leases that would require the same ah memorializing something is always a good idea so agreed it doesn't exist if it isn't in writing my husband taught me that I appreciate that response that's all I have Madam chair I uh also read cme's uh tree uh you got this we did and it I read it this afternoon and in the parking lot um but it's important so uh and there were quite a number of conditions we we would agree to comply with uh all of those we will meet with Miss spo's office and make sure that everything's addressed great excellent thank you anything else from the board anything else from you nothing further from us how lovely moving right along let's open this to the uh public please if anyone has any questions to ask of uh this applicant please come forward I move the close the cross-examination portion of the testimony second all in favor I now if anyone has anything at all to say about this project from the uh audience please come forward seeing no one come forward I move the close the public portion second thank you Mr suan all in favor I I all right would you like to conclude just very very briefly pretty simple application we appreciate all the board's comments back in June we worked through I think quite favorably uh all those comments and come up with a came up with a much better plan for for the communities so we're we're happy where we ended on this and we uh hope the board will grant us approval thank you all right we'll seek a um motion on this I'll make a motion I mean the attorney just stated how they actually listen to all the comments of Professionals in the board the changes they made really I think really came through with everything we asked for think very clean application uh especially with the circulation I make a motion to approve I second that motion Sullivan we'll have a roll call please Mr Brey yes Mr Bernstein yes Mr marzo yes Mr heler yes Miss Rose yes Mr chmer yes Mr wall yes Mr Sullivan yes Dr cim yes congratulations thank you have uh 15 leeville Road M Jennings got her Sheed for Miss Jennings that went quickly the last one didn't it yes surprised we're moving them right along good evening good evening for the record I'm Donna Jennings from the law firm of ly Goldman and Spitzer on behalf of the applicant as the board is aware the applicant is here this evening seeking preliminary and final major site plan approval to construct a three-story approximately 115,000 fot office building with related site improvements on property located 15 leedsville Road and identified as block 12001 lot 1.0 1 the property is approximately 10.8 acres and located the neighborhood commercial Zone where professional and business offices are permitted uses the office building will be located entirely on lot 1.01 however the applicant proposed is to connect to an existing access driveway from leeville road crossing over a portion of lot 1.02 lot 1.02 is currently developed with a quick check convenience store and gas station both lots are subject to a reciprocal cross access easement that permits Ingress and egress over the portion of lot 1. two that would be developed with the access driveway in addition to site plan approval the applicant requires a bulk variance with respect to the maximum permitted height and feet of the office building the applicant further requires design waivers including among other things maximum ground sign area maximum number of wall signs and minimum loading space size the testimonal show the applicant satisfies both the positive and the negative ceria and Graham will get into those specifics with that uh in support of the application we will rely on the testimony of Gran McFarland the engineer and planner sitting to my left naali gut the architect and John Ray our traffic engineer we just like to make sure that the record is complete so we have five review letters one from the board engineer dated November 11th one from the board planner dated December 11th fire prevention dated May 29th police traffic safety July 9th and tree specialist November 11th believe that's all the review letters we have with that if we could have Mr McFarland sworn in we can begin please raise your right hand you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth I do all right please state name and spell your last of the record because we have no idea who you are sure it's Graham MC Farland Mac f r l n professional engineer professional planner previously qualified and testified before this board we testifying as both engineer and planner yes the board accept the credentials there's a question thank you very much okay if you could uh Graham just as describe the site and the area around the site um and if you're going to rely on any exhibits let's just identify them for the record please yes you can see that we have exhibit A1 up on the screen which is an aerial of the subject property also has the uh the proposed development um on the property in in the uh in the yellow you can see the uh the subject site is located on leeville road uh it it contains about 10.8 Acres located in the NC the neighborhood commercial Zone uh the proposal is to build a three-story off office building of about 115,000 Square ft uh with the corresponding parking spaces and other site improvements I think we have uh 582 parking spaces which is in accordance with ordinance requirements you can see that the site s sits kind of uh behind the quick check which is at the corner of uh of Le Rail Road um excuse me do you have a pointer I do it would make our lives easier thank you so you can see the subject building um you can see obviously the the parking spaces around around the site you can see the uh quick check the other Plaza we're of course sitting right over here in in town hall tonight as we as we speak the uh M Miss Jennings spoke about the cross access easement that exists between the Quick Check property and between the subject property which is located right here where the existing driveway is to the quick check that driveway ends right about you know right about there right now so of course that will be extended to service the uh the the new building uh we do have some minor improvements proposed to Le for Road and Mr Ray we'll talk about that in in some more detail uh but basically we have some restriping proposed to uh to leeville Road and I think some retiming of the uh of the traffic signal uh so there are no other major improvements that are required uh to support this application but again Mr R will talk about some of those uh some of those details um a little more Anthony go to A2 for me A2 you can see is the the site plan sheet that was submitted in support of the application again it shows the uh the single building of three story of about 115,000 Square ft with the arrangement of parking and access access drives that are proposed the Quick Check sit sits right down here again the existing driveway that serves the quick check is is right in here that will be extended to service the site uh to provide access for the building uh and to all of the of the parking areas uh we did add in the the last round of submissions that we made just a couple weeks ago we had decided to add a second connection here for this upper parking area that was not part of the original design that we had come up with but when we spoke to our client about it a couple times they felt it we felt it was important to add this the second U access point for the driveway that does align with the existing Quick Check driveway uh A3 next Anthony A3 is just the uh the landscape plan that was submitted in support of the application you can see that this application includes a series of what we call Rain Gardens or/ fire retention bases which are all going to be planted uh similar to what you see here where I am uh I'm where I'm um showing with the with the pointer those rain Gardens or bio retention facilities will have uh water tolerant species in them uh they'll comply with the green infrastructure standards So based upon the new standards we can only have a maximum drainage area of two and a half acres so we end up having having to provide several different several systems throughout the site so we have them scattered throughout the site one up in in the front two over on on the top side one down on the bottom side and then we have a larger larger detention Basin down at the uh down at the bottom end of the of the project and we also do have underground recharge proposed to accommodate the rooftop runoff from from the building directly Mr McFarland directly itself are you using a a rain Garden style there yes we are that's great we're we're you know working on the master plan and that's one of our recommendations is that uh these retention basins be uh more environmentally attractive and the rain Gardens are a great way to do it so thank you very much I agree especi especially on a site like this where there are a lot of parking spaces and you know we can use that to try to break up and and to to try to provide some green spaces in the in the middle middle of the project and and soften the soften the over overall uh overall view um Mr Peters uh did did comment about the need to provide a uh buffers along for for the property there is uh one condition at the very rear end of the property where a buffer is required uh 35 fot buffer required by ordinance most of that property is actually occupied by uh by the uh category one buffer that sits on a property but there is a a small portion of it that is outside of the category one buffer you point out where that is I'm sorry yeah maybe go back go back to A2 A2 for me please it's this little piece back here uh you can see right here is a limit of the category one buffer property line sits right here the property that sits which is Lot 37 over here to the right that property is Zone residential so technically your ordinance would require a 35- fft buffer along that rear property line most of that is already consumed by the 300t raran buffer so again technically your ordinance does require a little little piece of buffer right right where I'm pointing so we will comply and provide that 35 foot buffer in that small portion of the property that's the only part that's affected by the uh by the buffer requirements the rest of the property is is surrounded by other commercially zoned properties so so the buffer requirements um do not do not do not apply there are um two variantes requested with the application uh one is for the uh the site identification sign which is right there uh the sign does meet the setback requirements of uh 20 25 ft however we are proposing a sign larger in size than what ordinance requires we're proposing a sign of 72 square feet really for uh for two or uh two or three reasons one the size of the building is 115,000 Square ft with uh possibly possibly you know 60 tenants or so um this property is much larger than a minimum property size required by the ordinance this property is 10 acres uh greatly exceeds the ordinance requirement of I think it's 20,000 yeah yeah 20,000 of 20,000 square feet uh and this property's Frontage is much greater than is permitted by ordinance um so this property could have could have been subdivided and provide additional Lots would result in additional signage as another option so for for those reasons I believe it's it's uh Justified to seek that variance for for providing one sign of 72 square feet to improve Public Safety provide easy identification for the building so we are asking for that that relief uh this proposed building is higher than is permitted by ordinance uh ordinance has a building height limitation of 35 ft we're proposing a building height of 30 I think it's 38 feet five and uh you know 5 and 7 inches or or something like that so just a hair below the uh just a hair below the 38 feet 6 in uh the architect will provide some specific testimony as to how that benefits the the actual building design and why it is advantageous but just for clarity we are seeking that and then I will come back and I guess I'll sum up with the with the proofs as to how that meets the positive and a negative criteria may I may I ask a question before you do that Mr Tremor we have no problem with that as far as our equipment is concerned U sorry no we have equipment that's capable of making that roof okay that when I read through this that was the single thing that concerned me the most was the availability of proper equipment right and it's don't get me wrong it's tight it's tight on that building that's what I figured again they shoehorning a big building into a little spot well 10 acres is not exactly a little spot but but but you may be correct there well I guess there a better way of they're making parking for a lot of people which is creating a a bit of a hazard we'll look into that then yeah but for the record I think it's important to note the maximum building coverage is 25% we're at 9.10% and the maximum impervious coverage is 60% and we're at 53.7 so we have not maximized the usable site here what you do with height we're talking about height not not with all right thank you Mr MC yes and since we were were touching on the um the fire access just just very very quick you can see that the site does have access from Le Road there is full circulation around the building the plan was submitted for the for the fire Bureau and we do have their their review letter uh in in resp response to some some other comments and thinking about the application I also think that we we should add which we don't have on the plan right now I think we should add a cross access easement to the adjoining property I think that would be good for emergency purposes uh I think I would propose that cross access easement right here where this driveway continues to align you know to adjoin with this plan currently shows what's approved on the adjoining site is that the you know School complex um so I think that we would just provide a cross accx as easement from the end of our parking lot to that property line and then you know hopefully the same happens on on the other property and they were be access between the two properties well I would not make that a condition of the approval because we have no idea what the adjoining property owner would permit so I would I would well we we can leave it open our we'll provide it on our property consideration consideration might be the better because that already has an approval on it so correct they're not right but they may be making changes just just saying we're not we're not doing any construction on their physical premises right correct okay all right make it sure be an easement uh we also have we have one waiver that is requested uh which is the width of the loading zone we have a loading zone back here uh to accommodate delivery vehicles box trucks you know small Vehicles whatnot we have at 11 ft wide right now by 190 ft long your ordinance required a loading zone of uh something like 12 by 35 or 12x 40 ft something something like that but we have it 11 feet wide and I would stipulate that that uh that is perfectly suitable and will work just as fine as a uh as a 12 foot wide loading area so we're asking for that uh that particular waiver uh Mr Peters also pointed out we do have a string of parking lots up here or parking spaces up here on the top which we do have 50 free parking SPAC without an island breaking them up ordinance recommends 50 so we will put an island in there to break that to break that up so there's no more than 50 I'll basically split that in half we might lose one or two parking spaces but that doesn't have any impact as we have plenty of parking how about many maybe EV stations back there which places right Anthony if you could zoom in on the building for me you could pan down so we get the get the building we have um I know that we we always like to put the EV spaces close to the building because it saves on the cost of the install but I see one guy shaking his head and I know another guy over here is shaking his head and the fire guys always tell us they want them not so close to the building you're sort of shaking the head you know where that's you know where that's going right that's something we've learned from C you a little more but get them away from the building right right that's something we've learned from uh from submitting plans of the fire guys they all want them not so close to the building and when both agree with each other then you definitely know that you need to move the well on this on this plan we have them down here on the outside so they're not right up against the building except for the handicap sesel has to be close to the building uh correct except except where the one or two were required are from the handic handic spe anyway string of EV spaces we have is down here right now not not up against the building so we're learning a little bit good spot so that that's that's where we put them I was just thinking if you could save yourself some spaces and break it up a little back there but whatever you decide to SP we we do have we do have about 20 more spaces than are required by ordinance so we're already okay so losing two or three is not going to have not going to have any impact uh Mr Peters pointed out two other other items which deal with um landscape buffers and and are actually screening uh your ordinance technically requires screening along side and rear property lines so screening would be required here where we have we have this rain Garden proposed which is 21 ft wide that will be filled with Landscaping so we ask for a we ask for that waiver technically we're not meeting what the ordinance says you're propos you're you're supposed to provide but we do have a 21 foot wide buff with significant amount of landscaping in there so I think that meets the intent of the ordinance uh Anthony if you can pan down for me and what I'm going to refer to as the uh the top of the site that adjoins the the School site that's been approved this property line has a has a drainage easement uh the county has a pipe that runs from Le road back to the Toms River there's an out there's an outfall there so there's a 10ft wide drainage easement that occupies our property uh and then we have the curb line 20 ft from that 10t easement within that 20 feet right now we just have a string of shade trees planted but we'll agree to supplement that shade trees with some um with some Shrubbery or or lower level planting so again that may may not meet the exact letter of the law of the ordinance so I guess technically we're going to ask for that waiver as well uh we do have architectural renes I'll go through them very I'll just anony just put up A4 for me and then I'll let the architect speak about the other details of the uh of the architectural plan so this is the uh just just an architectural 3D rendering of of the building you can see the unique shape to the building that provides some interest uh you can see the main you know the main Drive aisle and then you know the field of a field of parking just for orientation a quick check would be you know quick check would be that corner right there and then the uh the next retail Professional Plaza right behind the quick check there but anyway three three story building with you know very nice architectural design in treatments with the which the architect will provide some additional discussion about uh the letters from the professionals I think I went through most of the comments that Mr Peters had they related to um of course the the building height variance the uh the waivers that we're requesting which I did disc discuss uh just for clarification the uses our Business and Professional office which are permitted in the uh in the NC Zone I talked about the Landscaping strips and I think that address is Mr Peter's letter and we have a letter from Mr CLE dated November 11th of course he has a series of of uh comments outlining the project I spoke about the loading area uh we didn't talk about sidewalk along Leadville Road there is a cban sidewalk for almost the entirety of the site there is a small piece at the uh at the West End that does not have cban sidewalk we'll agree to extend That cbon Sidewalk so we have it fully along the site Frontage the soil import export will have to comply with the permit requirements the ground sign I did speak about and then a series of technical comments which we will agree to address all of those and we have a letter from the tree expert November 11th I have looked at that and uh we will agree to address all those comments or work that out with with Sherry and we have a letter from the fire Bureau dated May 29th of 2024 uh they they talk about the uh needs for a suppression system which we comply with they just talk about fire hydrant meeting jtm mua spec trust signers notations uh moving EV stations away from the building originally we had them closer we had moved them um add addressing signage fire markings and uh that's that's pretty much it so we'll agree to address those comments and that's all the Outside Agency comments that I have uh I have seen so that is all I have for right now it's a mighty big roof be great for solar wouldn't it I I agree be a lot of electricity I'm certain it will be I'm certain it will be solar ready and it'll probably be drone Landing portion ready as well so good thank you I think questions from the board Mr kemer the roadway going around the building you have vehicles parking on both sides what is the width of that road Mr Tremor if you can speak into the microphone then we could pick it up on the record I I didn't hear the question I'm sorry the roadway going around the building what is the width of the roadway between the park cars because you have parking on both sides an you go to a 82 for us so what we have is the uh this this driveway in front of the uh building we have that 30 ft wide so a little larger than is than is permitted everywhere else it's 24 foot wide which meets ordinance requirements so it's 24t wide here here here here and we do have a 30t wide in the front of the building okay yeah just so you know the one Lou ladder truck that we have in this town needs 19 ft 3 in at the bare minimum to put their jacks down okay so you will not be able to get any other vehicles around that once that ladder is in place right but the way that this site is designed I mean if if the ladder wasn't here for for example you know any cars can get out here and here and and if if we're fortunate enough to get the emergency access easement here to the adjoining property we have that as a way in and out of the property under emergency condition as well so I think the way that this property is is designed and also we have the secondary uh point of ESS here out to the main driveway so you have a point to the main eess here you have a point from here you know wherever a blockage is you have another way out from into and out of this site but my concern is if you so on a large scale building like this you have to ladder Each corner especially if it's a night you put the ladders up that they have beacons on them so the firefighters can see where they're going where the ends are in case of emergency you put a ladder on each end you'd now have just taken access out of the whole building because it's only 24 foot instead of 30 foot1 I don't know how the board feels about that but I just figured I would point that out as a point of interest um you're going to be using the Quick Check driveway as your Ingress and egress correct correct you don't think that's going to get a little tight u m Mr Ray is going to going to provide specific testimony about the traffic and the levels of service and those those kinds of questions I was going to build off what you said though is there a possibility you can put a secondary Ingress egress on the exact opposite corner going out to leeville well again I'm I'm gonna ask Mr Mr Ray to answer those questions because we did look at that and talk about that I know he's going to tell you that that's too close to this driveway to work um suitably but that was thought about when this project I like the way you were going with it it just move it up a little bit we we did think about it when the project was plan but at the end of the day um there's not enough Frontage to have two driveways work suitably so you said there's going to be 60 tenants do you have any could I mean it could be up to 60 tenants we don't know the number yet do you have any idea the rough number of employees that will be there I I don't have that number okay so there's I'm curious because I'm going to get into the whole septic part of it because I don't even see where that is well this has public sewer we're proposing public sewer okay that was my question and that's going to be its own that's its own challenge but this application is based upon providing public Sewer Service okay very good yeah because I know there's a lot of wetlands and other issues you have back there well the sewer the sewer is planned right now to go out of this project into the adjoining project then up to the pump station over here behind the high school and we've talked to the MU we've been talking to the MUA about that there are some things to be taken care of but that's the good luck with that that's the uh plan right now that's going to take some doing okay thank you right and and just regarding just following up on the uh the employees in the building so you would be obviously restricted to the IBC requirements for you know whatever whatever code is for the number of people in the building yes and I mean the architect could probably give you more information on that if you Al along with the amount of parking having the prop to be able to exceed correct anyone else from the board yes M de Marza I'm just looking at the utility plan and I'm sorry the storm drainage plan and there is a septic noted behind the quick check but is that for Quick Check Yes that's quick check yes that's not on not on this property okay thank you we all looked at that all right Mr Peters thank you madam chair uh Mr McFarland as it relates to the use of the property you've indicated that it's professional Office Professional office or business office okay the statement of operation says that tenants of the building would be permitted to conduct the app any permitted uses in the NC Zone yes we'll correct that pardon we will correct that okay so for the record no Dental or medical offices in the building correct and if those are being proposed you'd have to come back here to verify there's adequate parking agreed thank you that's all um just briefly on the um soil exportation um you had indicated that if you need it you'll get the permit yes I did and um that can be a condition of um resolution compliance in the approval agreed um this issue has just come up um because um historically this soil removal permit was handled at the building department after they got resolution compliance and got their building permit then when they started Excavating they would address it then um internally it's probably better that they address it with the board and make it part of resolution compliance that's the only reason it's coming up Mr Clay that that's a great idea do you think we should add that to our checklist um I think there's all probably already um in the checklist any in all outside agencies historically we waited till after they got their building permit they were you know constructing we would look for this permit um but it can't hurt to like you know have it in there as well all right thank you I have a question Mr pres uh you were talking about a roadway at the other end there is too close to this roadway and so forth I understand that and you have extra parking spaces would it be possible just to remove a couple of parking spaces and make an emergency entrance into there um somehow just just enough to get an emergency vehicle into that path and into that roadway there not a whole roadway just for emergency purposes only it would be I mean I I wouldn't object to it if you if you think it's necessary uh but we have here now is we have we have three lanes you know in uh Ingress and then two lanes egress here and then I did propose a cross axis eement to the adjoining property but I think you're asking for a an emergency access there only because even if you can't get the other one you're you're going to try to get no I that's that much parking I think just have another way in an emergency only not a regular traffic Road right no I don't object to that if the board thinks it's important thank you we'll provide it nice very nice Madam chair yes sir can we just before we sort of fold that in can we wait until we hear from Mr Ray because quite frankly it's a County Road and so when people want to make a left in to this project now we've got two areas where people are going to back up trying to make lefts to come in the property I want to make sure it's going to be safe I like the idea I think it's a great relief valve I think from a traffic engineering design and safety perspective I want to make sure that someone can tell us that the the County's going to tell us we can do it I don't want there to be a problem later they come back say well we can't do it the county won't let us if we put it in the uh suggestion box instead of the required uh then we can then we can work on that as the County agrees or disagrees thank you good suggestion anyone else from the board okay thank you at this time I'll call up the uh architect enough T gut all right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth yes I do please state your name and spell your last of the record na g g licensed architect New Jersey and multiple other states I have testified before this board um these drawings were prepared under my supervision welcome thank you we accept your credentials of course and before we begin what a beautiful building thank you okay uh natal if you could please describe the building elevations and floor plans and if you're going to rely on any exibit just identify them for the record yes so just a brief overview first so the proposed building is designed to be both functional and athe aesthetically pleasing with the following specifications on the first floor we have 40,7 70 ft second floor is 39 108 ft third floor is 35 831 ft total area being 115 and 15 Square ft uh that's 100,000 okay the building will be 2B construction which will be light gauge metal studs infill walls and interior partitions will be a fully sprinkled building we'll have two elevators serving all the levels and three stairways on each floor to ensure safe and efficient evacuation if necessary the ground floor is designed for optimal accessibility and convenience we have four entrances we have one in each side one here one there and both ends to provide easy access from the surrounding parking areas the highlight of the first of this floor would be the dramatic three floor Lobby that greets you when you walk in when an open staircase at the far end connects all the levels which will be over there creating a sense of openness and connectivity throughout the building additional amenities on this floor include a large shared conference room which should be right over there um there's a mail room which be right up over there we have a spacious men and women's restrooms on all the floors there's electrical and Jan rooms on each floor there's a Sprinkle room with easy easy exterior access we have 23 office suites of various sides to comminate different tenant needs and if we could pleas goes to the next sheet be A6 second floor continues the theme of openness with lounge areas designed for collaboration and relaxation that would be over there it also includes another 24 office 23 office suites similar to the ones on the ground floor the third floor offers open Lounge areas that Overlook the three-story Lobby right over there enhancing the building's sense of community and connectivity this level also features a shared exterior deck for tenants only to enjoy that'll be right there the third floor houses 14 larger office suites catered to tenants who require more space okay the building height as Graham mentioned is 38 feet 5 and 7/8 in to the top of the roof um as per Mr Peter's comment the dimensions did add up to 35 and 6 in and that was just a tolerance and we will fix that we are seeking a height variance to maintain roughly 3 fet between the floors for structural systems mechanical installations this design allows to provide a finished ceiling height of roughly 9 and half F feet on each floor which you feel is essential for the comfort and aesthetic standards expected of a Class A office building like this I just want to talk about the shape of the building a minute the shape and orientation of the building are results of a collaborative effort between our team and Graham's team our goal was to maximize exposure to leeville Road without in traffic circulation and maintaining parking around the whole building in efficient and cohesive manner on an irregular and challenging shaped site if you could go to the rendering I think that is A4 thank you Andrew the building's facade will primarily feature hpl panels which stands for high pressure laminate panels um secondary will have ephis which is insulation in I'm sorry about that ephys this is which stands for insulated and finished system those are going to be used in the secondary areas the HP hpl panels will be staggered and varying thicknesses colors and size to create a dynamic and visual engaging facade that wraps continuously around the building which would breaking up the potential potential anatomy of a long expansion being that it's such a long and long building we are asking for a sign variance for a building sign variance being that the building is so big so we're requesting signage variance for two additional signs meaning one for each side of the building each individual sign will not exceed 80 Square fet this will ensure adequate visibility and we finding for tenants and visitors and it should not overwhelm the buildings exterior in conclusion we bu we believe this project will be a valuable addition to the community offering modern office spaces while respecting the site's unique characteristics we have thoughtfully considered both the functionality and Aesthetics in our design to meet the needs of the future tenants in the community at large thank you for your time I'm happy to answer any questions any questions from the board Mr barza um why can't you have the building within the height that's required it's just it's just rough to get three floors within 35 ft and have enough room for the thick it's it's a big building so there's a big there's big there a lot of Mechanicals and there's a big sorry about that three floors we want to me take contain at least 9 and 1/2 ft of ceiling height on each floor and additionally we have a lot of stuff running in between the floors we have a thick floor system FL trusses and Mechanicals and Sprinkling Systems to get all that to fit within this envelope is is not really possible without we would have we would have to bring down the ceiling out of each floor to less than 9 ft or less less than what we want less than it's acceptable for such a building I'm sorry less than what you want less than I what would consider ed class a building you know 9 96 is like a standard of comfortable sailing height for such big offices it's really more of an aesthetic as opposed to it's not a hardship of course you can build the building at 35 ft what he's saying is he's trying to make it it's class a building state-of-the-art what you would expect if you were to go into a brand new building so you have 9 and a half foot uh ceilings on each floor and all the equipment in between because it's such a long expansive building there's so much stuff to put in between them so yeah could eliminate and then you'd only have eight what how big would those ceilings be 8 ft some it's not a hardship it's a better planning alternative Madam chair yes follow up on on the board member's question is it appears from your drawings that the first two floors floor to ceiling or floor to floor are 12 1/2 ft is there a reason the third floor needs to be 13 and 1 12 ft did you just explain that to the board yes so the the third floor is the roof trusses the roof trusses have to slope to get that have have to be higher to get the slope has to slope so we have to Max the height at at 35 and 5 and 7/8 and go down to create the pitch for the for the water and still not go over that number so essentially leaving a little extra room for the roof trusses to to create that pitch I think the board's trying to understand even if you have 9 and 1 half foot finish you got four foot you got three foot between each floor between the floor of the first floor and the I'm sorry the ceiling of the first floor and the floor of the second floor correctly then you have three feet between the ceiling of the second floor and the floor of the third floor and then you have four feet between the the ceiling of the third floor and the roof right so let me try to explain that better so let's say we need 3et of floor trusses right at a minimum and we want to pitch this roof in order to create the pitch we need to start much higher so that way at our least level we have at least three feet so I'm leaving extra foot for that so we create that pitch and still get at least three feet of a floor trust to span this building and that's for snow and rain and water that's why you want to pitch the roof because you don't want something that will free freeze and uh not eliminate water so that's why you need that pitch correct y another another simple answer Mr barzo would be some of the equipment on top of the roof extends the height of the building as well so it's not necessarily just the top of the roof but it's also the equipment on top so they respectfully Mr Shay we let me ask a question then you didn't discuss the parit could you please discuss the proposed parit for the building and its height and the total height from the parit to the ground okay I was just assuming that that was factored in but yeah go ahead we bring up the elevation page elevation elevation do we have that the elevation page it's A8 there you go Andrew if you could just zoom in onto the right side where it shows elevations yeah right there where your hand is yeah right there yeah that's good I couldn't read that tiny writing either yeah there we go yeah just just do the elevation very top the parit yeah just a little little can we get in a little tighter does it go any tighter that's it I believe it's 4 feet if I remember correctly if I'm reading this correctly for the parit which should be adequate to hide all the all the furnaces and units on top so then from the ground floor to the parit 422 ft be 30 Mr Tremor we're getting taller it's on page A6 again so it should be 38 5 and 78 plus 4 feet so it'll be 42 and 5 and 78 that's that should be the total height I have a question what is the height Li 35 so is this a conforming application or not no why is the height issue our no the parit doesn't count in the height technically it doesn't count but it's still taller than I know but that that's not how you measure height so it based on what does the ordinance Define as height so almost every Town's ordinances not just Jackson don't count the parapets or other things that are more decorative even if we're not counting the parit it's still it is slight it's a variance it's a bulk variance to exceed the height without without the parit it's 38 and five Ines I believe right five and S which is you know still below the standards for the the variant because ours is 35 so it's 3 ft 3 about three and a half yeah three and a half T less than three and a half which is exactly why I keep asking Mr Tremor if we have the proper fire equip angle sorry I keep on forgetting about that might not be a safe angle to climb it that but again I'm going to go back to the original question why are they 12T floors well some of it is for mechanical issues and and I understand that the trusses usually are about a foot wide so 8ot ceilings 9 foot even 10 foot gives you two feet over got your air conditioning and returns in there um I think they've taken some privileges it's a little bit bigger than they could they could cut back it's it's very hard to cut the between floor to flooor and everything to fit it's a big building a large building those trunks are be could be two feet deep that's besides the floor system you're taking four and A2 ft you're going 12 and 1/2 ft for an 8ot ceiling you have another 4 and A2 ft above it do 9 and A2 plus three between floor to floor 9 foot ceiling and the fire department mentions nothing about the height in their review letter can I also ask about the signs so you need a a waiver for the signs where are the signs going to be and what's the height of the signs are they at 35 ft or they'll be below 35 ft it won't be at the very tip like as shown would be like 35t would be the top roughly the top would be 35 ft oh maybe it'll be okay it could be 35 ft I don't mind lowering that that's a concern so if you look at maybe if you pull up exhibit A8 we can see where the wall signs are proposed shown they're shown at the top like right below the parit it wouldn't be ISS should to lower that so Mr gut there are there are three wall signs on the proposed building we're we proposing four one for each side it's not well shown because it's on a funny angle but we would like to have one on each side just people coming from any angle to see it so Mr McFarland's going to have to return and give us testimony about the relief necessary to have three wall signs where one's permitted I believe who just one it's in our report it's been in our was coming back um I guess Miss Jennings we sort of tiptoed around this um the height variance that you're proposing is a a bulk or C variance correct correct it's under the 10% maximum per hit height for principal building so it is a c variance you your clients your professionals all understand that you're proposing 1/8 of an inch below what's permitted from being a d variance that can only be approved by the zoning Board of adjustment correct correct and your client understands that if he builds the building and he comes back and the building's an eighth of an inch over he's going to the zoning board for an approval correct correct perfect that's all I have Madam chair yes keep that uh ruler handy all right anyone with a question it's going to be tight that's what that's what we see maybe we'll lower it by 1/8 of an inch all right I'll Trust your math and your engineering um four four signs that's and they're big well each each individual one will will maintain less than 80 inches 80 80 square feet which just asking for extra thing that this building has so many faces please remember it's 80 Square ft for one sign on the building you're asking for three signs correct four and are each of them going to be 80 square feet that's why I think we need to get Mr McFarland back up because what's permitted is one at 80 or 15% so we're looking for you to give us a specific so we can determine what if any relief is necessary so you can get what you're asking for three or four three or four I believe we ask for three one okay so let let's let's revise that to be three total and we're going to have 72 feet for each sign three signs and and on on 72 square feet each the front and the two sides correct nothing on the back correct and again just to keep this in context this is a 10 Acre Site where the minimum lot size is 20,000 sare ft so you could have broken this lot up into a number of different lots and everybody would be entitled with 30t signs so it's just the fact that we're doing one project on one lot large site it's just a matter of overwhelming that's the concern I think uh most of the people that would be coming there would be coming on uh this most likely down the front and I can't see why you'd need one over here you probably could do with with two um one on the front and one on the side coming from leeville two would probably be sufficient okay okay two two it's fine two it is okay and that would be one on the front and one on the leeville side that would make sense because you don't need two frontages I mean if you get two two opposite ends with cover everything correct right then what what's the square footage still 72 72 yes gotcha that make everybody happy okay thank you anything else anything else from the board anything else from the professionals any thoughts let's open it up to the public well do we want to have our traffic you but I'm I'm just thinking he's here and he's the one that's probably going to get the most questions from the public so traffic is traffic anyone from the public would like to come forward and ask anything of the architect you may come forward now seeing no one come forward I move to close the public cross examination all in favor I that takes care of that sir thank you now we'll get to track okay Mr Ray if you could come on up long time no say you swear or airm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth I do all right please state your name and spell your last for the record John Ray Rea professional engineer with mcana and Ray Associates 1431 Lakewood Road manisan New Jersey do the board accept credentials didn't see you for a while yeah it's been a week or two took took a vacation from us welcome if you could uh Mr Ray just for the record uh confirm that your offices VI the site in the area around the site uh yes we prepared the uh traffic impact analysis for the project uh which of course requires both Municipal and County approval and if you could go through your analysis for the board hitting the highlights please sure uh our traffic report was last revised September 18th 2024 it is what I believe uh is a full uh fully detailed traffic impact analysis for the project uh we've been out to the site on numerous occasions to uh review existing traffic conditions in the area we conducted traffic counts morning and afternoon peak hour traffic counts at the intersection of leeville road at Veterans Highway and Don Conor Boulevard we U projected traffic volumes to design year of 2033 which is in accordance with Ocean County planning board protocol they like to look at a 10-year Horizon and since we started the project in 2023 we projected the traffic volumes uh ahead to a design year of 2033 in addition to the traffic that is going to be generated from this project we also looked at two other projects in the area that have been approved one of them uh was referred to before by Mr McFarland is the school campus that is just North of us uh that project has been approved for two girls elementary schools and a girls high school with a total number of if I'm not mistaken 20 about 2,300 students uh we did the traffic study for that project so we have the traffic numbers there's also a mixed use project that was approved by the zoning board that is opposite on the opposite side of Veterans Highway here on the opposite side of the municipal building uh it's a mixed use project uh the name of the project is Port PT and Cone CN that's the name of the applicants we included that traffic into our projections of 2033 traffic volumes and we also included the NJ Do's background traffic growth rate data for the area so we took a look at what I believe very conservatively the two other approved projects that are in the area plus the growth rate from do which basically basically takes into account projects that are included in the area so I think we took a a pretty conservative look at Future design year 2033 traffic volumes and essentially what we determined from the traffic study was that although the site driveway that will be shared with quick check that goes out to leeville Road will operate at acceptable levels of service a C Level of service for the morning peak hour and a d for the afternoon peak hour the same holds true for the signalized intersection at Veterans Highway I think we have a c in the morning and a D in the afternoon both considered to be acceptable not withstanding the level of service conditions we do need to do mitigation at the traffic signal at at leeville and Veterans Highway and the reason why we need to do the mitigation is because the southbound Q on leeville road uh if if there's no mitigation to the traffic signal the queue will extend past the driveway uh that we share with quick check so in order to mitigate that condition we have proposed a southbound lead left turn arrow to the signal uh so that left turn movements on southbound leeville Road will get an advanced left turn green arrow we've proposed that and we've also proposed a southbound right turn lane and a Northbound right turn lane and with those improvements in place we can achieve a sea level of service for the morning and afternoon peak hour for the signalized intersection and our intersection will continue to operate at acceptable levels of service as well and so there is mitigation that's required and I just do want to point that for the board that the mitigation that's required is not solely due to the traffic impact from this project it's a cumulative impact from the school campus to the north of us the port cone mixed use project the existing traffic volume s and the uh growth rate from the NJ do but we have to consider all of those things because those other two projects are approved and uh this is what the township and the county requires from us so we do have mitigation that is required it's in the report the county is aware of it we've made a resubmission to the county with the revised traffic study and uh that was our findings thank you and uh you heard Mr Bry had requested uh the applicant to consider perhaps an emergency access a secondary on leeville Road close to the school campus can you upine on that please I I think one of two things is possible and I think Mr McFarland spoke to that issue if we can possibly get an emergency access to the school campus to the north of us I think that would be a better alternative to to get connected to the school campus so that we could use their driveway in an emergency but if we can't do that we can't apply to the county for an emergency access at that I guess it would be the northern access aisle on our plane yeah I wasn't talking about a regular Road cening I'm talking about something with a chain across for emergenc not regular traffic coming in and out I understand mrcy vehicles in there we we understand and if we can't get the cross access connection to the property to the north of us we will apply for that one way or another we we will take care of that issue thank you question and and the last thing I wanted to mention was and I think grah mentioned it as well we have adequate parking with respect to the municipal ordinance we actually have a surplus if I'm not mistaken 20 parking spaces so I was here I heard the testimony about possibly losing a few parking spaces for one reason or another it's not an issue we have enough parking thank you thank you any questions for Mr Ray m Marza um I'm not finding the statement of operations um what time is the office building going to be open generally speaking I think that the peak hour for the office building in the morning will be between 7 and 9: it depends on who the tenants are some people may start a little bit earlier than others um I know very rarely I get into the office at 7 in the morning if I've had a planning board meeting the night before but um it it's it's going to be anytime between 7:00 and 9:00 and in the morning will will be the start time and and uh what I did want to point out was I went back and I looked at the traffic study for the uh school campus the start time for the elementary schools in the high school will be 9:15 it'll be after the peak hour for the office building so there's a little bit of a you know it's it's a non-coincidental peak hour thank you the statement of operations uh says typical range 8:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. yeah those be the total hours from morning to tonight but the peak hour in the morning probably be sometime between seven and nine anyone else yes sir sorry about that Mr R you did the traffic study for the school campus next door right correct do you recall the timing of their Peak traffic the timing of their traffic I do have if you bear with me one second I did we did take a look at that when we did this traffic the the um the schools start at 9:15 in the morning which will be after the peak hour for the office building and in the afternoon the grammar school lets out at 3:00 and the high school at 3:45 so again it would be before the peak hour for the uh the office building okay and and and if I remember correctly the school campus was a 12 mon month campus that's I'm I'm trying to I think this one was less I think the girl school was less I think it was 11 right I thought the girl school was 11 correct nobody's there in and the office building obviously is a full year and no summer camp I remember that and they get out early on Fridays right anything else here um Mr Ray thank you for your testimony um the mitigation or signal timing Improvement you discussed um who will be responsible for them that's that's the great unanswered question simply because it is a cumulative impact from the three projects including ours and the growth and every and and that's subject to to the county um I suspect typically what the county does is the first person that comes in the door will be responsible and there may be some kind of an agreement where the next person that comes in you know picks up a portion of it so and again I I appreciate the answer and I'm I'm not disagreeing with it but I want to make sure that board members and the public and sort of lay people understand will this application applicant be responsible to pay into a fund in other words how does the Jackson Township populace make sure that this timing gets done when it's necessary does the town now have to undertake the the responsibility of calling the County every year getting traffic counts done seeing at what point we we reach these limits is this a a self- policing type thing where we're going to expect whoever gets going first to do it I'm trying to figure out right the way that the that the public improvements get done and as respectfully as I can say it about the county I don't think the town's quite comfortable hoping the county gets it right didn't offend anybody okay I understand and as I've testified to on many occasions every applicant that has an application in front of the county planning board has to pay a traffic impact fee to the county upon the getting their approval as far as a guarantee that these improvements will be made I I do have to tell you Ernie that in the p in the past couple of years the county has been pretty much on top of these things um as evidence of that the the improvements at Glory's Corner are in you know that was there were quite a few projects in the area that contributed to the need for those improvements the improvements have been done it's going to be the County's responsibility uh the only thing I can say is they have been pretty responsible as of late in getting these things things done on time thank you but that's the best answer I can give you um I'm not sure if I had an opportunity to look at your most current traffic report but the one that was submitted originally back in May of 23 talked about your site traffic experience your site traffic leaving the site experience experienc a level of service F during the PMP um can you explain both globally and specifically with one point of access what happens to people leaving the site because this site doesn't have a control as to when people leave if if it's Class A office space and everyone works 9: to 5 at 5:00 500 people are going to decide to go home and I think your your peak hour looks at I think 240 250 vehicle trips leaving the site in the peak hour so with the site next door schools we actually staggered so I don't there was any more than 20 or 25% in any I think it was 45 minute period so here we don't have that control so my concern is what happens when that Peak 15 or 20 minute period when everyone gets out at 5 or 5:30 what's anticipated at that at the site driveway in the existing intersection well the anti the with with the mitigation that we've proposed with the left turn arrow for the southbound traffic and the Northbound and southbound right turn Lanes the projected level of service is going to be a d level of service a little bit better than an f um as as far as all of the people getting out at 5:00 I think the architect testified they're more than likely there are going to be multiple tenants in this building I don't see a large corporate user taking the building uh there are going to be multiple tenants the odds of everybody getting at at the same time at 5:00 are pretty pretty slight I think our traffic projections which are based on the it data are reasonable probably still a little bit on the high side so I think with the mitigation to the signal and the intersection that we've proposed plus the fact that we're going to have multiple tenants I I don't see that as being an issue can you provide some some additional testimony as to the thought process behind connecting this site to the gas station site yes uh the Quick Check Yes the the thought process behind it is very simply the county wants to limit the number of access points to the county road and so that's that's basically Bally the thought to to limit the number of access points and the number of potential conflicts so I'm sorry is quick check traffic going to come out to this site yes we're going to share the Quick Check driveway yes I'm sorry this site this set of plans has a driveway that goes out to the existing Street correct it's the existing Quick Check driveway that we're going to connect to I don't know if Anthony can put the pl it's a very wide Quick Check driveway I use it twice a week and and there will be as part of our mitigation I neglected to mention it there will be widening along leeville road to provide a left turn lane not only for the school campus but there already is a left turn lane for the quick check which we're going to utilize but there will be a widening along leeville road to the north north of our project so that the school campus has a left turn lane and then when you get down south of the we've got a whole County Improvement plan which Anthony can put up if if people want to take a look at it in more detail we can uh we're going to restripe leeville road to provide a two-way left turn lane south of the school campus so that not only do we have a left turn lane but the Strip Center on the other side where there's a a pizza place and I believe an ice cream place on the be the west side of leeville road they're going to have a left turn lane as well when we're done okay internally to the existing Quick Check driveway Mr MC fren indicated the latest set of plans include sort of a fourth leg to that intersection the Quick Check intersection where oh oh oh internally yes internally yes so can you explain the thought process behind that is that is that just a another relief valve is that going to I don't know how that helps or hinders the number of vehicles going out to leeville Road well it it doesn't make any it it doesn't have any impact on the number of vehicles going out to leeville Road what it does do is if you take a look at the plan that's up on the uh board right now there's a a large portion of the parking lot that fronts leeville Road without that connection they would all have have to travel east yet they would all all those people in that front parking area would have to backtrack to the east to come back out to the uh the access to leeville road so we just thought it made more sense to provide an interconnection there to allow those people in that part of the parking lot to just have a direct connection um my hopefully last question um can you explain why we can or can't get a traffic light at this this site access in leeville Road uh basically two reasons not enough traffic to Warrant a traffic signal and the proximity to the existing signal at Veterans Highway the the county looked into that but um they they were more interested in us making improvements to the intersection at Veterans Highway to to put everything in place um quick question so due to the fact that we have the F uh service for one component to this would the applicant be amable to um to linking the COO to the road improvements like we've done in other applications right uh Mr sh I'm not sure I understand the ex uh what was the condition the condition would be um Co is not issued to the applicant um until the until they um until they get the road improvements done I just count cars that's above my pay grade I'm going to let Mr HS take that we we've done that in a few other applications yeah they they agree with that yeah the co not the building permit they can go ahead and start building they can go in but the SE right I just just so the board members are clear one of the reasons that I and I appreciate um Mr sha bringing that up one of the reasons that's important on on this particular project is this is not a phase project it just one building it's not like a warehouse project or a school campus where there's three four half a dozen buildings where you can say okay let let's count traffic every year every time we get another building CO it's one building they might not occupy it the first year but it's one you're not building this building in parts so thank you good very good any other questions from Mr Ray okay thank you thank you at this time we're going to call it Mr McFarland back up to give planning testimony and just so the record is clear there are is a request for the building signage to have two where you're allowed to have one at 80 squ ft so we're going to have two at 72 square ft and then there's a the actual freestanding sign is also limited to 30 square ft and we're asking that to be 72 square ft two two we agreed to reduce it there was three proposed but there was a request to reduce it to two and the applicant has agreed to that and then of course the building height is the third variance and then there was uh one area on the property where the buffer was not wide enough and there was also the loading space being 11t wide as opposed to 12T wide so Graham um you've already been sworn in so if you could just run us through the variances and in your professional opinion as to why the applicant meets both the positive and the negative criteria yes and I see Anthony has uh A2 up there for us which is the which is the site plan which is important to to look at when we discuss this this variance that we're requesting for the building height uh again ordinance allows 35 foot building height that 35 ft is measured from outside grade to the flat part of the roof your ordinance also provides a provision that uh parets that are no greater than four feet do not count towards the towards the building height so the permissible permissible Building height by ordinance is 35 ft uh we're proposing 38 feet 5 and you know a half inches 5 and 78 inches something something like that just below the threshold to retain jurisdiction at at this board you heard uh Mr gut provide some testimony as to why it's important for the for the operation and the benefit of the building to provide for a first class office space to provide for uh you know feeling of increased volume and space in those offices and to attract the type of uh clients uh and tenants that are our our client wants to attract for this type of this type of building uh we showed the the appeal of the exterior of the building of course that is related to being able to get a building of this size uh with this efficiency of efficiency of its layout and use and that all factors into the request for the uh for for the variant it's important to note that this building uh the required front setback in this zone is uh is 60 feet this building is almost 430 feet from from leeville rout so that is uh you know seven times further than what the ORD what the ordinance requires uh as as we look at this the C2 variance C2 are called the flexible or you know subjective variances where we're supposed to weigh all of the factors and Det determine if this variance has you what are the benefits of that variance and what are the negative impacts of that variance I would stipulate that this proposal of of proposing a building that's 38 feet you know plus or minus uh seeking this height variance is beneficial to the community it allows a project to be developed with a with a building of of this character and class it satisfies master plan objectives by providing for economic growth uh supporting tax ratable bits uh increasing economic growth and development all those items are discussed in the master plan several times and that's an important consideration in a in a project in a project like this again this building set back 400 plus or minus feet from leeville Road uh and also based upon based upon the uh the site the site topography the elevation of Leadville road is approximately uh elevation 128 or 130 the first floor of this building is down at elevation 119 so the first floor of this building is approximately eight or nine feet lower than than leeville road so this this site already sits lower than the road uh visual perception nobody is is going to be able to tell that this building is higher than what the ordinance allows set back 400t from the building one beautiful building proposed I think all of those when you put when you take all of those factors into consideration that there is no negative impact created by this by this project and the board would certainly be warranted and granting the relief as requested thank you thank you any questions from the board I think this might be a good time if there's anyone in the audience who would like to question Mr McFarland uh or Mr uh gut good yeah yes Mr gut those are the two we we didn't allow so anyone want to come forward ask any questions about this project from these two gentlemen seeing no one come forward I move to close the public cross-examination of these Witnesses all in favor I all right now if anyone in the audience wants to ask any questions about this particular or have anything to say about this particular project this is your opportunity see no one come forward I move to close the public uh testimony portion of this application all in favor I all right sure just a in quick summary we're dealing with a permitted use that's asking for minor deviations at best and the result will be really a state-of-the-art Class A office building that I think the town would be really proud of and then we respectfully request that you grant an approval we'll look uh for a motion I'll make a motion uh I moved to approve this application with the height variance to just under 39 ft the signage of two signs at 72 ft on the building uh and the entrance sign variance that was requested along with the loading z uh loading zone variance to 11 ft uh and the um the promise that they will try to have uh an easement either with the joining property or onto leeville Road uh also the two entrances on the Quick Check Road I would also move to approve looking for a second second to motion I'm saying that because we're not used or many years I haven't seen an application like this with a class a building and I think the definition we were given by The Architects the reason for the death between the floors and stuff and all the answers that were explained in detail really showed the justification for these variances because they're really minor when you look at the size of the property the acreage the size of the building and the lay out of it in my opinion is really laid out perfect for the traffic flow uh I really think it's an ideal situation I came through and the professionalism of all the testimony of why you have stuff there I make a motion to second I will get a roll call please Mr Brey yes Mr Bernstein yes Mr marzo no um I'm not satisfied with the um the benefits to the community we already have a state-of-the-art um office building in the area that is not yet fully leased and I'm just not I don't there's no reason for this um request for a height variance so no thank you Mr heler yes Miss Rose yes Mr Tremor no I have grave concerns about using a quick check driveway without a second roadway going in I think it creates a very big problem my own personal experience living in the neighborhood there were some days just with quick check it's a nightmare to get out now you're adding 500 vehicles and again I'm going to pull the emergency card in an emergency situation it's very tight it's very tough and I also don't like the fact that there's only 24t going around two to three sides of the building you cannot put one ladder there and get another piece of equipment around you're locked off so that's my reason for enough Mr weard Mr wall left Mr Sullivan uh yes and my reasoning uh is we want class a um buildings proposed for this town uh we want to be prepared for the future this is a good tax rateable also for the township uh the quick check entrance if anybody's ever been on it was designed obviously to extend to another um another um building or development it's just quite obvious if you're on it um I feel that this is a good way forward and that the variances requested were reasonable thank you Dr Campbell yes congratulations oh wait hold it Mr wall is back Mr W yes yes thank you Mr wall thank you very much uh I think we'll take a 10minute break please thank you that means back by uh e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e on the 425 Bass Street proper to increase the number of students to be enrolled at the school from 50 to 70 so it's just an expansion of the school that got approved on the property next store there is no expansion uh to the existing structure on this site proposed all existing accessory structures are to be removed as will be more thoroughly discussed by the appan site engineer in addition to Interior renovations to accommodate the school use other minor improvements that are proposed include a blue stone walkway and a gravel driveway expansion to accommodate emergency vehicle access a gravel walkway will be installed to enhance pedestrian connectivity between the two properties if approved the applicant will consolidate 425 and 417 basso Street Properties to create one cohesive school campus the applicant is also simultaneously seeking amended minor site plan approval if deemed necessary for the neighboring 417 basso Street property because the applant also requesting to construct a small walking path on 417 basso Street to continue that pedestrian connectivity importantly the applicant is fully conforming and requires no variances as the applicant's traffic engineer will discuss in more detail the parking requirement is satisfied because once the two lots are Consolidated 27 parking spaces will be provided which exceeds the 20 three spaces that are required for a high school with 70 students in support of the application the applicant will call the following Witnesses himim gross the operation person from the school Ellie helper the site engineer Maly R the architect and John Ray the traffic engineer as a matter of recordkeeping the applicant is in receipt of the following reports one the board Engineers review letter dated July 19 2024 Police Department traffic safety unit review letter dated October 17 2024 Township Fire Prevention District 2 review letter dated October 25th 2024 and the board planers review letter dated October 28th 2024 with that we'd like to call up our first witness thank you before we begin uh gentleman you have anything you'd like to start with um from an engineering perspective not really um there's converting the existing um dwelling to a um school um similar to the adjacent property and they're just providing a driveway interconnection or pedestrian um connection between the two anything Mr Peters not until we hear the testimony thank you all right fine thank you okay Mr gross if you can come on first they're going to swear you in first he's a fact witness not an expert got and what's his position he'll get into that yeah after please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth all right please state your name and spell your last of the record gr gr OSS I'm the president of sha high school and your credentials do you want to just set forth your experience so I'm not not involved in the school and day-to-day I just sort of um founded the school and and uh hired the appropriate professionals to run the school okay thank you welcome okay if you could just for the record um can you indicate what the school's mission statement is yeah this school is for teenage girls who require individualized attention and would benefit from a small school um teachers and staff are well trained to provide the girls with that individualized instruction and attention and if you could um describe the current School located at 555 Joe Parker Road in Lakewood some of the board members were not here when we presented the original application so like you said we're we're currently um located at 555 Joe Parker Road in Lakewood uh We've operated there for about 8 years um and we have approximately 33 students today and you're looking to move you we're here for the prior approval of a 417 Bass Street to accommodate 50 students correct right correct so we we obtained a prior approval at 47 basso Street to accommodate 50 students which is where we see the school growing over the next uh um little bit and uh we're now coming back and requesting to expand the school to include capacity for 20 more students at the 425 bastor Street property so that would be a total of 70 students at the school correct okay what about staff members how many will there be and what are their roles so we're um looking to increase the staff members from 24 to 31 um just to clarify staff members that's that's you know a lot of Staff members for this out the students so they uh they take turns working shifts and a maximum of uh 12 staff members be at school at one time uh the staff includes a principal assistant principal guidance counselor office staff and teachers okay okay and if you could just describe the school curriculum so it's a a combination of religious and General Studies about 70% General Studies General Studies um comprising the core core subjects that are taught in in in all high schools and about 30% um it's a religious instruction um the students receive a high school diploma upon upon graduation and um try to give them a a you know a fully fully encompassing um um education that that that you know that meets their needs and if you could um describe the hours of operation are they going to be the same as was previously testified to for the approved school yes so that's going to be the same as the previously approved school school operates five days per week Monday through Friday excuse me Monday through Thursdays 9:30 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. and on Friday we run from 9:30 a.m. to 11:30 a.m. and what about the staff memb hours what are their hours staff member hours are 9:00 a.m. to 400 P p.m. obviously not all the staff but there are staff members present from 9:00 a.m. to 400 p.m. on Friday um staff members leave at 12:15 p.m. and what about the weekends are there any schools during the weekend no school is not in session on the weekend and what about overnight does any of the students sleep overnight no okay um turning to school transportation how will the students be transported to and from the school so um we we presently do it continue to do it is we um have four to five um 15 passenger vans that transport the students um and we we intend to continue to do it that way do you think that most of the students will be coming to the school via van yes uh 90% of the students will be coming by van and we anticipate 10% um being being dropped off by the parents what about the students that are old enough to drive are they going to be able to drive their cars to school no we we don't allow School the students to drive or walk or or R bikes early to school and the vans that are coming and the parents that might be dropping off their students are they coming to the 417 basso property to utilize for both properties yes well all the um parking drop are going to remain at 417 bone a walk over using the B walkway and it's your intent that the watch will be Consolidated if this application is approved that's correct and that the purpose of the walking pass is to have pedestrian connectivity between the two sites that's correct what about the Vans themselves are they going to remain on site after they drop off the girls no okay if you could um just describe the school schedule for the uh calendar year when do the school start when does it break Etc so the school runs from September to June with a summer break in July and August uh we're not proposing any activity during the summer months um and then during the year we have uh two twoe breaks for religious holidays and 8 to 10 days off uh spread across the school year and what about um the girls are there pretty much for maybe breakfast and lunch I don't know but will there be cooking or food preparation done on site no so we use an outside vendor that provides food and they they deliver it to school um um right before lunch and will there be a cooking facility in both the houses 417 and 425 or is everything going to be centralized no everything will be centralized in 417 um this new property 425 basso will be you know just an extra um EXT some extra space and spreading things out a little bit so anything that if if there were girls eating in there in their classrooms they they'd walk it over okay and uh generally who was responsible for site maintenance so the applicant is responsible for for ranging site maintenance and we have an outside vendor that's presently uh performing doing a job and we we'll continue with them with respect to the deliveries to the site um when I'm talking about the 425 Bassel street now the new site how often will there be deliveries and what type of deliveries would you expect so we expect one daily delivery for the food and one daily uh delivery of you know UPS or or the like small parcel carrier um for school and office supplies I don't know that there'll be a separate delivery for 425 or 417 but probably be just one delivery to 47 so you think the most of delivery is going to go to the 417 site correct and you'll just walk over what 425 needs correct okay and how about security is there any type of security at the school so we we would put in a video surveillance system and along with Access Control okay and if you could describe uh what types of student recreation that you offer so we we plan to have the students using the basketball hoop and outdoor Terrace that are at 417 Bass Street okay um I think that's all your direct testimony unless there's anything that you want to say to the board directly if not we can have the open it up to the board uh is the is the school functioning at this time yes I was there yesterday oh not at Jackson not I'm saying in Jackson right I apologize it's functioning at 555 Joe Parker in Leewood yeah well I was very distressed when I was there yesterday because the uh gutter system is falling down it uh is lying across the building it looks terrible and I don't think that's very neighborly uh I was was really concerned because when we did this the first time this is going to be a small school just a few girls because they had some issues and we we understood that and and we took that into consideration now you're doubling this you may not be doubling the size of the people but you are doubling the size of the facility that that that has a a concern you started out telling us it was going to be this little project and now it's twice that little project and and I think that's of concern I'm sure to the neighbors and I'm very sure that they don't like the look of what has happened to that facility since it's been empty I I hope you're going to do something about that very quickly so thank you for that so to address the uh condition of the of the property today um to be honest I wasn't aware of that and I I do apologize to the neighbors and everybody but we're we're utilizing a management company um and um I believe that there was some damage to the to the home there was a flood or something like that so it's uh maybe had some restoration work done but shouldn't be left that way so I definitely um make sure that that gets taken care of in short order um we haven't been we're not operating there haven't been there but that's obviously we have to still maint make sure that's maintained um with regard to your second Point um um I I you know again definitely appreciate the concern um the way way we view it is that we are doubling the site from 4.2 acres to 8 point you know 4 Acres or something like that so really just providing more space for the girls and a little more room to spread out um we we were careful not to double the number of students and we don't intend to ever have that number you know more than than the number of students that were proposing um but uh sort of we I guess had the opportunity to you know acquire another 4 acres and we just felt that um it would it would be it would be better use and I I think Still Still You know the number of students that we're proposing which is 70 on an 8 acre um you know parcel once it's combined is still a small youth that you know that can remain contained and and uh you know not so you have you have 30 something students now in Lakewood correct and you're going to be going from 30 something now to 70 so that's more than double right so we right so just um right I was referring to the D not doubling from the earlier application but but to to be honest um we we anticipate going probably from 35 to 45 to 50 and we're just allowing ourselves room for expansion I don't think we don't have plans to expand to 70 you know tomorrow um or anytime soon it's a small school we want to maintain that but we see in the long term that opportunity to um uh you know to acquire again the 8 acre parcel which we think is more than sufficient to um provide for this number of girls and still keep it contained and and small and and you know as quiet as possible and we're going to be uh super careful to do that I guess I guess what what I see is that you came to us with with what looked like a small project and now it's gotten to be a a bigger project um and it's in a neighborhood it's it's in a a very um precarious spot I think uh for for doubling the size of the project well respectfully you know Dr Campbell it's a permitted use so another school could have bought the property and put 50 students there or 100 students there if they could park it they just saw that the property you know they they they grabbed it and they're telling you 70 everything's based on parking they didn't overpark it they just have enough for the staff and the students and enough van spaces for what he's saying if it was to get any larger than that he'd have to come back here for another approval and we would address those concerns then now you you told us all about how you going to make it look uh when you were here previously none of that has happened so the the the exterior and the grounds are in very poor condition uh granted April May June July August September October November December we're 10 months 10 months and not a thing has been done and the place is falling apart and I think that's unkind and unneighborly so some something has to happen there and it has to happen quickly I agree again and I apologize for that um you know just with resolution compliance and the amount of time that it would take to get the building plans in place I think I don't know that you know how long it'll take to start the the project but certainly in terms of the upkeep and maintenance we're going to do a better job at that um I also just want to stress again that we're not like maximizing this this um project and saying we could this is the max amount that's allowed like we're I think we're well below that and you know we're trying to keep it as as a small project still how will we know how many girls are being helped there I mean how do we know it's not going to be 80 how will we know it will be under 70 um again obviously we would you know comply with the the um you know the rule and ordinance that's allowed to us um we don't have intention to go you know I don't I don't know what I don't know what the ordinance tells us the number it's all related to parking so so many parking spaces per the students just like every other school application that's come before this board and I think it's a self- certifying what some of the other ones have agreed to as a condition of their approval we'll be clear about the number correct thank you any comments from the board M Jennings hi you said something about consolidation of both Lots you mention anything like that consolidating both Lots did you mention something like that correct that's going to be a condition of the approval that we consolidate the Lots okay so maybe this is more of a question for an engineer assuming you have one here but yeah Ellie's coming next U it might be be cleaner to have one circular drive going between both properties and just one in one out instead of having the way yeah why don't I think why don't you wait for Mr Halper to come up I don't think this person is going to be able to address all those types of questions thank you there may be a reason why it's that way um due to the nature of the sites themselves M Mr Sullivan um I noticed that on the 425 baso Street lot um you're proposing walkways in the back which is very uh aesthetically pleasing but I also noticed that they connect with a neighboring properties walks or it looks like paths that go into the neighboring property how will you be segregating your property from their property will you be having a fence there um if you look at the map of the proposed walkways you'll see they cross over the uh property line yeah it's interesting I just noticed that myself earlier he said he could put a fence up he has no problem uh doing that if that's something the board would like to see yes we would prefer having a fence abolutely fence around the property the whole I don't know what's feasible but definitely to to protect the neighbors's privacy in those areas that are you know adjacent to them but yeah I don't know like if it's wood it in the back and I don't know how feasible to put a fence there but we definitely but a fence to contain the the use well let's just be specific as to as to where right what we're going to do with the fencing right so maybe we'll let Mr Halpert look at the plan yeah that's as advise because I don't think he can answer that question yes just I just want to just make sure I'm clear the use and this type of education and the style of what's going on in in in in this application is the same exact as your last testimony in April right so the only thing that changed is obviously your school you see the potential of the school attracting more students you want to be able to provide for that and you also want to be able to provide more land right correct so we're basically doubling the size of the land but adding 20 students we have 50 now we want the ability to add 20 more and let me just ask when you had your before you bought the second lot or I guess maybe even after you bought it did you try to maybe maximize the first slot with more students than the first slot before you bought this no we we sort of feel um even for the existing approval 50 students that we benefit from having uh you know larger property with two separate um uh structures is that something that you currently have in your Lakewood property a lot of walking space Outdoors um we have about uh it's a smaller lot lot there but we do have a large backyard for lakid standards let's say right I he um and Recreation is is an active part of the the girls um schedule so there's not much outdoor activity I mean there's a basketball court presently at the site and that's what we anticipate continuing and then there's you know a lot of um just organized you know games or sporting activities outside but not not much in the way of like improvements for um you know for for any um athletic activities right and I'm assuming because I know this something which is important to the neighborhood over there you plan on leaving the the outdoors the way it is you you don't plan on just putting up fields and baseball fields and everything else you plan just leaving the natural Outdoors for the girls to take walks and enjoy correct no soccer no soccer okay thank you thank you there was actually a I think it's like a a horse um field over there so may play there but right we we would we not doing anything more than that thank you Mr Mara no you said you have um there's a break on July and August is that is there nobody going to be at the school or is there is it a summer camp no nobody no no summer camp and when is what is the the plan as far as timing from when you're going to be um getting ready to have the girls come into the school so I Mr Halper might be able to answer that better only because it's all dependent on our Outside Agency approvals so that's why he hasn't done anything to the other side I'm not sure he has them all yet and then we came in with this project and so um it kind of delayed everything as soon as um we're able to begin uh construction we would and we'll take care of the property in the meantime I know to to be honest last time I was here um one of the neighbors mentioned that there were tenants there who were noisy so it was rented initially and we we decided not to rent it so make sure that we didn't have any nuisance coming from there but obviously that that leaves an abandoned uh structure with maybe because other that I I can understand waiting for the agencies but it seems to me that you could be taking care of the outside of both buildings that's your responsibility you have to you have to remember people I drove through that Community people care about their homes and we made it clear when you were here previously that those that that house would fit in with the neighborhood now it does not fit in with the neighborhood so it's important anyone else from the board have any questions before we move on what are the age of the students what what's say the age brackets of of the students so it's high school so 12 13 to 18 yeah Mr CLE um thank you did I hear that um should the board approve it know we're going to consolidate the properties but will there be an effort for the architectural treatments to so the two schools look alike um I'm not not sure what's proposed for the um you know facade but my understanding is that we were going to try to just leave it as much as is to just maintain the uh know the residential uh look of it the architect may be able to answer that better for you so why don't we wait for Miss rub to come up okay um and the variety of accessory structures that are on the site are they planned to be removed yes they're going to be removed I indicated that in my opening thank you Mr Peters anything from you thank you thank you sir thank you don't go too far don't go too far far I'm sure there'll be questions I I get the sense Mr Halpert if you can come on up and I know you've been listening to the questions so hopefully you incorporate some of those answers into your testimony all right it's working there we go do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth I do all right please state your name and spell your last of the record Eric Halpert h a l p r t licensed professional engineer in the state of New Jersey I prepared these plans and I have testified before this board several times welcome Mr halard nice to see you again good evening okay Mr halard if you could uh just describe the site and they around the site and I know you were the engineer on the original application as well so if you can walk us through that and if you're going to rely on any exhibits please identify them for the record the um the board is looking at exhibit A1 which is an aerial of the site showing um both sites indicated on basso Street the subject property is located on the easterly side of basso street the previous application involved 417 basso Street the current application is 425 basso Street the area is largely residential it is located in the rd1 zone within the pine lands and the applicant is seeking to convert the existing single family dwelling into a school use as previously mentioned can you go to the next exhibit please the next sheet the board is looking at a combined um site plan with the previous um site plan and the current site plan to discuss what the applicant is proposing to do on the current site the applicant is looking to convert as mentioned the existing single family dwelling all parking requirements that are created from the new proposed School use within the proposed within the um existing single family dwelling that is being converted to a um to the school use is being provided on the adjacent line as mentioned earlier the lots are going to be Consolidated and the plans are going to be corrected to show the Consolidated lots and the zoning of the two lots combined the applicant is proposing to maintain the existing driveway and expand the existing driveway for emergency access only there was a comment regarding um how the access point can be ensured to be used only by fire and not by any of the staff members or anybody else um I did speak with the Fire official to ask him his preference uh recently and the he suggested um a gate with a nox padlock that um the Fire official the fire um fire will have access to and uh that would prevent anybody from accessing in the site however there will be the ability for fire to access the site um as we do with we would want access for fire directly from the streets um details could be worked out with um the board engineer but I believe that would satisfactorily um satisfy the board in ensuring that um there will not be any of the commercial activity access via the 420 5 basso Street um driveway it will only be served uh it will only be serving emergency access um as shown on the plan the um applicant is proposing to widen the existing uh gravel driveway in order to provide access to fire the Fire official has reviewed the plan has approved the plan um there was a comment regarding the existing state of the current um gravel driveway and any um there are areas which um are do not um exhibit full depth gravel and as part of the expansion the gravel driveway can be um fully uh Rec be reconstructed as needed if that would be to the board's satisfaction I don't believe an asphalt driveway is needed if the board would require an asphalt driveway the applicant would be willing but a gravel driveway would be preferable would fit with the um fit in better with the uh neighborhood and would suffice for um the fire purposes only it is not going to be used for commercial purposes um the site plan the combined site plan shows the parking again the single operating previously approved site plan um which I believe is um limiting the amount of disturbance there is considerable uh there's considerable amount of wooded area and by ensuring that the only access to the only commercial driveway being used is essentially the current um driveway at 417 basso street that would be limiting the amount of trees um being cut down for the project and in general leaving more wooded area and so the applicant is proposing the single driveway previously approved under 417 basso will be the only commercial commercially operating driveway and we'll provide the parking as per the parking calculation where 23 are required and 27 are provided at um one space per three students um as indicated previously the two sites are going to be functioning together and again it will be a a condition of approval to consolidate the Lots students are going to be um busted all via transport van generally um to the 4177 basso Street site and there is an interconnecting uh walkway uh to allow the students access to the 425 to the uh these additional 20 students at the 425 um 425 address which is this application will be able to walk from the 417 site to the 425 site additionally um the refu pickup is going to is is only at 4177 basso Street and there was a comment um to provide an enclosure on 425 and the applicant agrees to that the refu pickup will be at 417 basso streets and at certain intervals the refuges will be brok over to 417 for the garbage pickup any food deliveries um to clarify any food deliveries um will be again at the 417 basso Street site and again walked over there is at there is going to be a path as proposed between the two sites and just so the record's clear the original application on 417 Bassel Street the only change to the plan is the walking path correct that is the only change that is proposed otherwise everything else that we see on that plan on that lot was already approved by the board yes thank you can you go to can you go to uh the next um sheet please this is a a colored rendering of um of the Landscaping um there was a comment regarding buffering and um the tree expert will be requiring additional buffering plantings along the um property line and the applicant applicant agrees to provide additional um buffering there is considerable existing vegetation but and as much as there are uh these are deciduous trees there will be additional buffering plantings to provide screening and the applicant is going to comply with any comments from the licensed tree expert and work together with the licensed Tree Experts regarding um can you go back I'm sorry can you go back to the previous sheet Anthony I'm sorry regarding regarding sidewalk um as mentioned um I believe um earlier as stated in the statement of operations um the students will not be allowed to walk to the site the students are going to be brought by Van there will be a small percentage brought by the parents by car but either way students will not be um walking to the site and so um the applicant is not proposing um sidewalk along the property Frontage as there is no connecting sidewalk on either side and would be requesting a waiver I believe that putting sidewalk without um sidewalk on either side would um not be appropriate and a waiver is requested if the board wishes to not Grant the waiver the applicant is willing to place the sidewalk but um a contribution to The Pedestrian fund I believe is appropriate um for this um site where there is no sidewalk to connect so the applicant is Seeking a waiver from providing sidewalk and would contribute to The Pedestrian fund Mr burnson would applicant be okay if the if the board would request a sidewalk over there yes okay Dr Campbell if we could have that conversation what there is no sidewalk anywhere else so it's going to kind of make it stand out if you wanted to blend in with the neighborhood correct and I and I guess that is definitely a question that we probably want to have with the neighbors but we as a governing body we're seeing increasing requests almost daily um for sidewalks and I don't want to turn around and um and have that conversation with the neighbors and I wonder if it might be safer uh to have them go from one building to the other on a sidewalk then closer to the street as opposed to the middle of the LA well it's a street where nobody drives down there I mean it is really rural quite rural it's not on a a busy street so you know when they're I'm I'm thinking about a path in the rain and sleep and snow and slush and you know that that's not particularly safe either uh so the thinking had been the thinking had been rather provide internal walkways as opposed to something closer to the street however the applicant is completely open to following the board's directive if the board would you know we've been encouraging and and we get we I happened to be at the zoning board the other night and people are begging for sidewalks so rather than going backward we'll go forward Madam chair you don't have to Madam chair you'll have your time to speak sir this is not it we're doing this at this time M chair Mr presi the sidewalk issue many years has been a subject um if The Pedestrian fund is used properly and this case there's no sidewalks either side it's really rural nature and in the case I don't think it helps I think if they have to be walking on a shoulder with no sidewalk and coming to a sidewalk the question to the council and the governing body is what are they doing with the pedestrian fund there's a lot of places in town that really need sidewalks where they fit in and are needed more and that's why I get confused as how to weigh something like this right now at the initial conversation of this with nothing on either side for a good distance of sidewalks I would lean personally one person against the sidewalks in The Pedestrian fund I also ask the councel to start watching where The Pedestrian funds are and where we can apply those funds which was the intent of that being done to the places where we need it in the town so that that's it's a good balance both ways they very hard to reach and I usually use like in this case here I don't use a sidewalk nowhere in side out there uh Bassel Street Bath Street out there there they don't even know what concrete is um and uh in this case I I personally if he goes to the fund and the funds being used properly in town or redoing sidewalks and putting where we need I think that's the idea of the fund and would fit here that's my opinion only thank you yeah I think just to address the board's concern I think it goes to the character of the neighborhood so if you want to take the character of the neighborhood into consideration when you're making this decision I mean that that's predominantly the philosophical balance that we're we're dealing with here you don't want it to stick out you know want to put something in that that's not consistent with the the rest of the character of the neighborhood um you know and at the same point the the potential funds that could go into the side the sidewalk neighborhood fund could potentially be utilized in a different area of the township for better use you know so that that's the balancing test that the board's got to take into consideration um taking into consideration the character of the neighborhood I would say is it possible that you can beef up the connection between the two properties um it needs to be a solid sidewalk in inside the property going from um 47 to 425 you're looking for a concrete sidewalk within interconnecting from 417 to 42 internal into the property where you have it marked off right now the applicant would agree to that can I we are the um Pine lands generally prefers blue stone gravel on your first in in order to um come in front of the board we needed to secure certificate of filing plans have been submitted um were submitted both for the previous application and for this application for this application it was showing of of course the blue stone for the previous application it was showing full asphalt for the driveway um on residential applications they always will request that the driveway be blue stone on Commercial applications uh we have received and were required to receive in order to appear before the board the certificate of filing where the application showed the driveway to be asphalt um the reason why I propos blue stone gravel is because the pyland does prefer blue stone gravel um in order not to in order um in order not to um uh I said the applicant would agree to provide concrete sidewalk it may be better to say that applicant would agree to propose um concrete sidewalk as long as the um Pinelands will not um deny that I do not believe the pine lands will deny that this is a commercial application and concrete sidewalk um makes sense I know the won't give you a letter you get approve got first and uh did you on your first site get approved from them yet because you have your approval on the first site did you get an approval from the pons yet we have the the status of the first application is there as um the as this application as the um applicant was dealing with this application there was a delay in finalizing those plans as this application is coming up and so we have not finalized the resolution compliance of those plans and we are in receipt of the certificate of filing we do not have final approval um should the board Grant approval this evening we will proceed with finalizing both resolution compliances of both applications and now Mr Sullivan just mentioned in uh compliant you know staying in the character of the neighborhood with the sidewalks I'd like to go back to Dr Campbell's comment about straightening the place up with the character of the uh neighborhood and maintain that building better the applicant will do that Mr trummer I'm going to give you the fire department perspective the uh existing school already has a paved black top driveway correct basically a you shape yeah for safety reasons I would think you need at least a 20 foot wide black top driveway that comes in and gives a truck a angle of two sides of that building minimum because it's a school you also I believe it should be interconnected to two driveways make it one big U the other leg of it that comes out that could be your Access Road your emergency with the gates if you want to do that but you're going to have kids walking back and forth again you have I consider if you have to evacuate the schol plus you have snowy days rainy days icy you don't want these kids walking through the grass or anything else where if you have a black toop driveway it can be plowed can be maintained safety access 20 ft wide you can't guarantee me that that gravel driveway will hold up a 990,000 lb fire truck if they have to put their jacks down where a compacted 20ft pav u-shaped driveway you really won't have to take very many trees down because I've been there and it's a very depressed area around it where you're going to have to stabilize a lot to make it work so I believe a pave driveway would be the way to go and now instead of worrying about the kids walking around on sidewalks it may alleviate that issue too because you have a driveway for them to walk around the the the plan just for the record the plan has been reviewed by the Fire official and the Fire official has approved um the an is willing are you are to clarify there were a few points you're asking for access to the rear of the building also for the fire Tru was was it no not the rear side if you're looking at the house if they pull up this way it's a limited angle where if it comes across a little bit and catches two corners fire truck can stop right here and they have full it's called scrub area they can reach all the corners of the house with the ladder and it also gives enough room for everything to get around it doesn't block it off so and so you're asking for the the access between the two the two properties should be a big loop in my a big loop driveway people walk access you're going do yourk any gravel is not safe and I understand the whole Pine land's part of it but can you plow a gravel driveway that well so the thinking had been so the applicant is willing to certainly um widen it to provide um access for the fire before getting into the um gravel or the asphalt so the the um thinking for the presentation um of the two properties had been one commercial driveway is keeping it to a minimum there this was deliberate to maintain again the look of the neighborhood we had the previous approval we're going to the applicant wishes to maintain One commercial driveway however of course the applicant uh needs to provide fire access and so the set the driveway that we are discussing at 425 that is accessing the street at 425 that we are discussing to expand right now is only serving fire and um I do believe gravel would suffice the applicant is willing to provide asphalt as long as the Pine lands would be willing and on a commercial application as the Pine lands previously approved the 4177 basso site with um with asphalt um I do believe the pin lands would back if you go back to the Fire official I believe he would agree with me once it's out there he gave you the bare minimum the driveway you have right now Mr Tremor you're have you can't be heard so you have to get closer to the mic the audience cannot hear you the driveway you have right now how wide is that the paved one the paved driveway at that we're proposing at 4 47 right that that you're you're considering the commercial driveway that is 20 ft it's 20 ft wide I'm sorry it is 24 it is 24 ft wide I remember it being a little narrower than that because I actually drove up it with my pickup truck I'm I'm referring to the propos to what we're proposing no no no what you have there now you're saying that the pave driveway in the adjoining property we haven't made those improvements yet we we discussing the proposed improvements the existing condition I I I'll measure I can tell you what the existing that was a residential home it is right now a residential it is a residential home right now what I'm referring to is the proposed improvements not the existing condition it's narrow the existing driveway is approximately 12 ft wide but but that is the existing driveway and the applicant is proposing to expand it to 20 ft to compl to to ensure that the uh fire truck will access it no absolutely 20 feet is the bare minimum that we need for for a fire truck but like I'm saying you have to if you did a long sweeping driveway between the two buildings I think it rectifies a lot of your problems so the applicant certainly is willing to do the long sweeping driveway with gravel and I think we can there just to point out there's a benefit to keeping the gravel in order to again keep with the neighborhood we were attempting to limit the amount of um commercial look by keeping the one commercial driveway and the one asphalt um if the board would like asphalt um since this is the pine lands we would certainly request that we demonstrate that we um propose it to the Pine lands if they do not want it then we would want to um be assured that that will not be a condition we we could propose it but just to explain the thinking had been the gravel um is more with the look of the neighborhood and um I'll disagree I'll disagree with that because I went up and down that street and it many of the driveways were black top if this is the applicant is willing to prop OS asphalt to the Pine lands yes no problem okay and just to be clear if the pine lands turns around it says it's not within the character of the neighborhood kind of is what it is and And to clarify if if we if we're proposing asphalt then um very likely there is a possibility it's going to trigger storm water management as well and we're going to have to put storm water management um we're going to have to either increase the storm water management facilities that are currently at 4177 if we're going to connect it or more likely we're going to have to put some storm water management facilities at the 425 sit so I do believe that the gr that the current application as shown um is certainly sufficient for Fire and Fire approved it um and providing asphalt would make it more commercial in terms of both the asphalt and the storm water facilities that would have to be get involved Sor Fire doesn't usually get involved whether it's gravel or pavement because that wasn't in his purview I'm sure if that comes up to him now he will give you his recommendation be very different I did speak the Fire official I spoke with and is aware that it's gravel and is okay um but it's okay for now until you do your improvements but do you understand what I'm saying yes 100% the applicant if the if the if the board wishes to then the applicant certainly yes I think it should be thoughts from the board to anybody do we do we want to encourage um asphalt some perious coverage that may cause more issues for the pine lands situation Madam chair I think the the simple answer is and I think the professionals and you're dealing with the pilins that's like hting a constant moving Target um I think the proposal of they will go to the piland and request it and then the piland gets the final call no matter what that's fine I think that's the only way to really settle is that if they're willing to go and will commit to a resolution applying to the pilins for the asalt and then the final decision is going to rest on the Outside Agency the pilant right I think that's the only way that can be done properly that's good that's fine we're in agreement then so just to clarify so what we're proposing here is an asphalt driveway at uh 425 going up to the house at 425 that's going to be converted to school but it's not going to be connecting with 47's driveway or is it he well Mr Tremor is proposing a sweeping driveway that connects both both buildings and you are and you're okay with that I don't think we're okay with the connecting cuz then we'd have to take a bunch of trees down there aren't a lot of trees there there really aren't that many trees there this was a a horse farm yeah if if if the app if the board would would believes that that is to the benefit of the application the applicant would be willing to do that and as as Mr trummer points out then that could be a walking area from school to school yeah that would alleviate the need for the concrete uh driveway a walkway walkway excuse me Madam chair regarding the impervious coverage if we're doing this circular driveway you're actually going to be deleting one of them from the Curr from the previous application right so your imperious coverage should stay somewhat the same perhaps slightly more the way I see it if you're just doing one large U between both properties is that what we're talking about your imperious coverage should stay somewhat similar MH you're right I'm sure it you'll be communicating with our professionals we will have to work out the details and we'll we will discuss more as this testimony um continues that sounds good I just jump in as far as the pylons go um the um applicants correct that they applied for a certificate of filing for what you see and that then and the pons issued the certificate of filing the next step of that is a no callup letter which the pons wants to see okay we saw what we was originally approved but now how did the board approval change it well they're going to look at a loop driveway where they're going to see additional um um pavement um and it probably will trigger um additional storm water management um it's just part of if you want the no callup letter you have have to address that but it's um I don't think it's anything well we'll ask the pons and see what they say good good thank you thank you any other questions any other things you have to say sir I do have a little bit more testimony yes um Anthony could you pull up um the site plan the the plan set um could you go to sheet to um could you zoom in just a little bit to the general um site to the rear of the property um the board is looking at the existing conditions plan with numerous accessory structures and certain dirt roads the applicant is um proposing to remove all the access restructures um the dirt road um there was no indication to remove it it is dirt um the applicant has no use for it and if the board wish if the board uh would like the applicant is willing to um seed and make sure that it is vegetated um with cover um that was not shown on the plan um however the applicant would agree to do that should the I think that would be aesthetic preferable and there will be no longer any dirt roads quick quick question for you the um the pathways are they easements held by the neighbors or was that just a what is that are you referring to the to the path to the other to the other properties not between our two properties is that what you're asking the the pathways which lead look looks like they lead onto horse trails or bike people just probably just use them over time as motorcycle four-wheelers encroach formal easements and any no there's nothing in the title work no nothing everyone's just back there driving around gotcha it's just a nice hiking path and um just to go through um the review letters I touched on a few of the comments so regarding the letter from the from Mr Peters from the board plan dated October 28th so the applicant is going to consolidate the lots and the plans will be corrected to demonstrate the Lots being Consolidated with the zoning so showing the applicant is not proposing ground mounted signage and any wall signs will be limited the architect will speak more to that and any wall signs will be limited to the zoning ordinance um what is permitted uh we do have our traffic engineer here and I will let traffic uh discuss any traffic comments regarding the Landscaping their um The Landry expert um is asking for additional screening and changing some of the um Tre some of the um trees that are proposed and the applicant is going to comply with all with the requirements of the Landscaping ordinance and does not need any um variances or waivers as indicated The refu Collection is from the 417 site this is a minor site plan and to go through some of uh the the comments from the board engineer um there is a septic system onite a septic system and well is proposed the plans were submitted to the environmental commission and there have been no comments received as part of resolution compliance if the board is going to be requiring that the um driveway be paved there may be a require the um it may turn I can uh any storm water management that will result as uh that will come as a that will be required as a result of this amendment will be addressed during resolution compliance the technical revisions the applicant will is able to comply with and that would conclude my testimony thank you we can move on okay great at this time we like to call up the architect good evening do you swear or affirm to tell the truth to hold truth nothing but the truth I do all right please state your name and spell your last of the record my name is Melissa R last name rub I'm a graduate of the City College of New York School of Architecture and I'm licensed in the state of New Jersey um I oversaw the preparation of the drawings being presented tonight and I have had the privilege of testifying before this and other Municipal boards throughout the state welcome back thank you very much um uh tonight I'll be presenting the architectural proposal for Shava High School um as previously described we are proposing interior modifications to convert the existing 2 and a half single story sorry two and a half story single family home into um a high school for girls um I will outline the architectural plans and compliance measures for the project so um Anthony if we can go over to the first sheet of the architectural set please no that's the um civil set if we can just hop over to the architectural set that's it perfect thank you very much um I don't know if the exhibit was pre-marked do you know what letter we're up to or this this was a a previously um given to to the um board so would be marked as an exhibit I just want to be clear mark it as A4 okay great thank you um so this is exhibit A4 the floor plans for the proposed school um the building is comprised of 4,667 sare Ft distributed with 1,35 ft at the basement 2,95 ft at the first floor and 1,267 ft at the F at the second floor the building is 20 22 4 in to the center of the highest Gable um if we could just zoom in slightly to the basement plan please um the basement has two administrative offices thank you that's perfect two administrative offices over here and here with some storage in between um and is accessed via the interior stairwell at the center and a rear stairwell in the back the first floor um has a Lobby one classroom a therapy room office a break room for staff bathroom Lounge um some additional office space and kitchen storage in the center there we are adding a Ada ramp to this to the front entrance that's right over here um and the existing wooden deck in the rear of the building will remain um note that the cooking appliances in the kitchen will be removed and the space that is the kitchen now will serve for staff only for preparation for themselves um at the second floor we are proposing one classroom two group therapy rooms and one bathroom um Anthony if we can go over to the rendering please so that was a separate exhibit yeah the these are the building elevations but there was also a colored rendering excuse me what's going to take place in the basement the basement is just for admin so there's two offices down there and some storage the rest of it is going to remain unfinished or you know semi-finished but not for student use thank you sure was there a colored rendering that was sent over oh sorry that's in the first A4 you think okay sorry uh that would be the fourth sheet in that packet thank you yep that's the one perfect thank you so much so this is exhibit A4 or did we use A4 already I well okay so sorry let's rename this A5 I'm sorry for the confusion um at the exterior the building's elevations will um be in line with the residential neighborhood um the vinyl siding will be replaced as needed along with a shingle roof to keep the character of the neighborhood and to maintain cohesion to the sister building next door um there is no building mounted signage proposed at this um location um in terms of some code compliance issues that I want to cover the building is fully will be fully sprinklered in compliance with fire safety regulations um as for egress again the basement has two means of erress that I previously described um and the first floor as well a door in the front and a door in the back the second floor is classified by code as a space with one exit um and meets the following criteria Which is less than 49 occupants at the second floor and a common path of travel of less than 75 ft to at which point you would get to two means of beess and it is therefore again a space with one exit um in terms of ADA compliance again we're are proposing an ADA ramp and ADA Compliant bathrooms um to the first floor all doorways and Pathways will meet accessibility standards per New Jersey's rehab code um this is uh that concludes my direct testimony any questions from the board thank you sure Madam chair yes sir real quick as far as the exterior I think you had indicated that um the siding maybe the roofings uh will be replaced if needed who decides if needed so we definitely want a beautiful and you know exterior this is the image on the screen is is what the you know product will look like at the end um you know the the siding again if it's in good condition will be cleaned up and and uh and and made to be and we will be sure to make sure that it's in good condition and if not it'll it'll be replaced why not just reside the whole building we can do that thank you Mr Peters anything from you thank you thank you sure okay this time I have to call the traffic engineer Mr Ray pretty sure you sleep here yeah I'll be back you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do all right please state your name spell your last of the record John Ray Rea principal with McDon and Ray Associates testifying on traffic welcome again thank you and John just for the record your office you visited the site in the area around the site I did I visited the site uh you know looked at the site plan and uh did prepare a brief traffic statement on the additional traffic impact that will be generated by The Proposal okay and why don't you describe your findings well uh very simply I'm going to be brief uh there it's this is going to be a school for 20 students uh they are going to be bused in transport Vans uh it's going to be connected with the site at 417 basso which has already been approved for 50 students so essentially what we're looking at is perhaps one or two additional transport Vans and several parking spaces that will be required for staff and for parents that may drop off the children so we're really looking at perhaps five additional Peak AR trips uh minimal impact I said I'd be brief good perfect that that the end of your uh professional Witnesses then I think we'll open it to the public now please okay now there'll be two sections uh ladies and gentlemen first you may ask questions of the um professionals that have testified no general statement no uh comments this is purely for questioning when you're finished with that portion then the second portion will be uh for comments or general uh concerns all right if anyone would like to question any of the W any of the um professionals who just testified please come forward all right please raise your right hand you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth I do all right please state your name and spell your last of the record Kimberly zanger S as in Sam Z as in zebra a n g r at 1458 Jordan Avenue all right um thank you Dr Campbell for pointing out the deplorable situation at 4117 uh basso um it's been very difficult driving past that house after having the meeting that we had in May April um I want to just if I may shed some light on the flood no I can't do that okay excuse me um this is at this portion just questions just questions thank you so much then then you can come back up later so my first question is um I'm not sure who it would be directed to possibly the president of the school um if you bought 417 basso in January of 23 and then bought this uh 425 basso in August of 23 and we were only discussing this in April of 24 why wasn't this plan shared with us at that point thank you that's a fair question um um the answer is that we weren't sure that we were going to um be able to afford to develop both sites and and get this project done um initially we were you know considering holding it or renting it out or something like that and keeping it for future use and then we decided to come ahead and and um try to expand the project little bit so um am I allowed to ask a question in addition to that now okay yeah so my question to that though is mathematically your spots your parking spots line perfectly with 70 students so you're raising your right hand and telling the truth supposedly and that's concerning um I then have another question did you or did you not now buy the property on the other side of 417 no last week no um because the concern by the res is that that street is then going to go through to Jackson Trails um so the the neighbors are definitely concerned about that um so we we'll be clear you have not purchased more property in that vicinity we own a property across the street 418 basa which we've owned for a while and have no intention of developing uh for the school at this time it's rented but the other property that you mentioned uh we haven't purchased we haven't purchased anything since our original purchases unfortunately I can't access those documents but it does say pending not really relevant just to be clear it is if you live there hang hang on hang on hang on just just so we we can set the sandbox that we're playing in here so what happens with an application in front of a planning board the presume to the me this Banus law the sandbox that we have to plan has to be relevant to the application before as we can't start taking pieces of property that may or may not be even under the control of of this owner or a different Corporation or or anything like that so it's so it's got to be relevant to you can ask whatever you want but it's got to be relevant to what's in front of us so my next question is um a lot of the residents had concerns about um the water table and um flooding and one question would be are you going to put in a commercial septic system to house and deal with additional people now in these buildings that's a side engineer question so Mr Halper if you could come up and address that please yes a as part of the previous application the septic system was proposed and a new separate septic system on this property is proposed but is it commercial because that's a lot of people using um there is no um septic system is not classified necessarily as as as residential or commercial it um there are certain requirements that um the septic system needs to meet um and the septic system proposed meets the requirements and uh is going to be the The Proposal is conditioned on approval by the Board of Health excuse me wa we might have I have one other question on aseptic system being in the pilins would you be subject to their requirements for the septic systems they require sometimes the pressure system the entire application including the septic system is certainly that's totally different septic system that the pilers usually requires but you would be uh exposed to that you would comply with that we the we the the application is required to comply with the pin land's requirements in this instance um I believe the system you're referring to the ampid Drome system which you um you are familiar with um is actually in certain instances not allowed and by not allowing what is being insured is that it limits the amount of people that can um um um be using the system and attempt to have an application approved for because the idrone system allows for a greater amount of people so in this area and in certain areas within the pin lands um what's called the pilot the idrum system cannot be used and um either way the applicant is obligated and does comply with the requirements of the pine lands ma'am I have one thing to say to you um you brought up something that I've watched for many years up here and years ago we used to call the creeping crud and that's trying to watch what's happening around the property that we're talking about tonight and the rest and we cannot look at that I agree with your concerns there but that's not our preview by Mr valan law and the oath that we took for this board so I concurent your thoughts but we can't do nothing about that man who can I know um all the uh previously discussed agreements uh with the buffers the hours of operation um no full-time residents that the lights would be off at a decent hour um no parking on the streets those were are going to carry over to the new dwelling as well correct thank you and just to maybe just kind of ease your mind a little bit so so what happens the pine lands is that uh when it comes down to the septic unit so it has to go through multiple jurisdictions of approval the pine lands actually has stricter standards when it comes to that than some some other areas and some other situations so they have to disclose how many people are on the property in fact they've already have I believe through their certificate um that they've already sent in and had approval for so they can't kind of do a bait and switch right or else they'll be they'll be knocked in the head pretty hard right so um when it happens they have to then go and get the required system that Pine lands mandates pursuant to like their own administrative code and that's typically of a higher standard than that in in non- Pine lands areas so it's a kind of hard to wrap your head around but like it's an additional checks and balancing system so to speak because they want those areas to be pristin um so so they can't do a bait and switch with the numbers they just can't is there somebody I can contact directly on the board in the event that they do not do the maintenance that's necessary because they've left the windows open and the screens out so you got two things so uh you can contact code enforcement right um have a have a sit down have a chat with them and just you know let them know what you see what's going on alternatively if you're still you know um worried about the Pine Land situation you you can call Pine lines up directly and and just have maybe somebody in legal explain to you the exact end outs of of that type of situation um they're pretty receptive and they're the easiest people in the world to get on the phone but when you do they're they're semi they're semi- receptive so thank you right also ma'am the pilot commission has monthly meetings also open to the public that you can go down to um I would argue with the attorney that they're sometimes receptive but that's something else um but they open to the public and they good meetings to go to and maybe if they heard some other people and their concerns they do address them they are very particular about preserving the pilots especially the main core we're on the outskirts of it so that a little looser on the Oscars did internally well in 425 has beautiful mountain laurel in the front yard that's going to be destroyed by all this and it's very sad because that's not a plant you can buy commercially it's native to the Pinelands but you can go to Pineland meetings that I think didn't we in our first meeting didn't we asked to preserve those um on that property I I seem to remember that we there's more on 425 than there are on 417 well we'll ask the same because I believe that it might be against the law to remove a mountain laurel I thought so too I tried to find something but I couldn't prot yeah I'm I'm pretty sure they're protected because I had the same issue on a house I owned in Jackson previously so I'm sure that they will look into that and and be uh concerned about that thank you good evening uh Gary fish yep please raise your right hand you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do all right please state your name and spell your last of the record Gary fish f i 483 basso Street okay so I have two questions um recently we've been under a severe water restriction how much water is going to be consumed daily weekly or monthly because we have already experienced during this drought when you turn the water on to get water out of your well it does not come out with any force that would normally be there um so water consumption is a big concern while I don't have the exact number for the water consumption but for a school um without showers um with a cafeteria is I believe 25 I'm not 100% sure right now remembering offand but it is not a large amount of water consumption because the school um the water consumption is a function of the uh student body and the staff and this is a small amount of uh a small student body and staff so 50 women and then staff using the bathroom I would think that the toilets are going to be um the type that conserves water versus the oldfashioned toilet which used gallons of water compared to the newer designs that are available today that would be um I don't know if that's something the applicant would like to uh stip would like to have stipulated um but um I um when you say so what you meant the sewer demand the sewer demand again is not a large sewer demand yeah if the applicant will stipulate the low flow you know that would be yes okay okay so the water consumption that the toilet feeds off of and the sinks that are used to wash your hands so on and so forth I'm talking about water that comes out of the well um we're going to do everything possible to preserve the consumption of water yes yes thank you um the next question only because of and I know we can't talk specifically about any neighborhood but the private schools that have transportation provided so this is a traffic question I know that everybody's in a hurry today we see a large increase in auto accidents on a daily basis to the to an increasing number that is is mindboggling but these commuter vans that are bringing students to school race up and down the roads um to get where they got to be so they can go pick up other students or do what they have to do who is going to police literally police the 25 mph speed limit in our neighborhood yeah I I I'm going to have to so so what happens that the um literally the police department has to at least the traffic safety department has to enforce that so so we can't impose almost like an enforcement mechanism on on the busing miles per hour um that would be kind of heavily legal from our point of view when it comes down the conditions of approval so it it it would have to be the police department to enforce whatever the uh speed limit is in that area unfortunately there's not really an easy answer to what you're asking I I've had experience where uh I I have called the police department to put down um those hoses across the road to check on traffic they will do that for you if you find that there is a problem on your on that street presso coming in they can they can set up a system to check the speed and it might give you some relief to know that they're being professional and cautious all right well thank you so what happens Jackson Township has a specialized unit called the sa the traffic safety unit you can call them up directly and just let them know your concerns and they they specifically look into situations like that all right another comment on the grounds the wetlands the pine lands that we are sometimes in in that area when that ground gets wet and you drive a heavy duty truck because I've had them come to my house like a dump truck but a fire truck I'm assuming is a lot heavier those trucks will sink into the wet ground after snow and rain they will sink into the ground don't give him any fodder yeah okay they'll sink into the ground two two foot three foot into the ground so the pavement that you've been talking about and the base that you have to put down to hold and support a truck is very important if you haven't experienced it you will experience it when that vehicle has to come in so hopefully we take that into consideration thank you thank you sir anybody else to close that Mo second second solivan all in favor now if anyone wishes to come up and speak about the project itself just general comments moralities you're welcome to come forward opinions General comments good evening I'm Helen Ferrero 1458 hang on you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do all right please state your name spell your last of the record okay 1458 Jordan Avenue my name is Helen Ferrero my husband and I purchased our piece of property in 1987 so we've had it a long time and and in 1987 our decision to buy that piece of property was to have this piece of land in Jackson Township where the air was sweeter because there were so many trees everything was filtered it was beautiful and the land is getting raped the trees are gone there will be no more I I don't understand how anybody could let this happen even God himself wouldn't want this to happen and I think it's a TR travesty and I thank you I'm done thank you ma'am okay seeing no one else come forward I move to close the public testimony portion of the application Sullivan all in favor I any uh final words well you're essentially looking at an application for permitted use that has no variances and I think the applicant has been very receptive to all the board members comments and is trying to work with you and would respectfully requested the board Grant an approval seeking a motion I'll make a motion it's a tough application because you're taking a residential use and and turning into commercial use I understand the concerns out here however it's also a complying application and by the oath that's what we have to go by I think with the stipulations the applican has agreed to with the fings with the piland and recognizing how much of this will be governed by the decision of pilot I make a motion to approve it mam chair just clarification on the stipulations does that include this Loop driveway yeah we're going to going to ask about it yes yes it does yes it does so we're going to be seeing revised plans that show this Loop driveway not only for the site that we're talking about tonight but the prior approval correct thank you one other thing of the motion I I made that motion right now it's with no sidewalks I don't know if we went any further with that so I made a motion without sidewalks and paying to The Pedestrian fund engage nebor does not want the sidewalks um that's why I not necessary to have the sidewalks put in the fund and and the administrator and you are going to watch some money in The Pedestrian fund thank you he didn't say that all right all right we'll have a roll call vote Please Mr brzy yes Mr Burnstein yes Mr marzo yes as long as they um go ahead and start addressing the maintenance concerns immediately thank you Mr heler yes Miss Rose yes and I agree with Miss de Maro about the U improvements Mr Tremor yes Mr weart Mr wall yes Mr Sullivan I agree with my colleagues um while we have no enforcement arm when it comes to maintenance of the property the township does and I highly encourage any neighbor of this project that sees anything that is a code violation to please report it to code enforcement so that it can be dealt with and with that I vote Yes Dr Campbell yes congratulations thank you so much I hope everybody has a great holiday and we'll see you in the new year thank you we'd like to move along to our next application sorry folks but we have four tonight so this will be a quick one guys just it should not take too long let's hope for the best figure Mr alfery had to hang out here for the last uh three and a half hours of course good evening Madam chair members of the board salor alfery cley gcoe alfery and Jacobs on behalf of the applicant thank you for sticking around for us um we'll be as brief as you allow us to be in that um what we're simply trying to do is convert an existing home into a house of worship um we have three Witnesses um two of whom will be very brief the engineer will be the lengthiest of the three um you want us to just jump into it or do you want to hear from your professionals uh I always like to hear from our professionals if they have something to say yes and Mr Peters agrees yes and and to note that the three variances that are identified in the board professional reports are all existing conditions we're not changing those they're based on the size and shape of the property as it exists today Mr Halper we're going to have to have you sworn in all right do you swear or affirm tell the truth the hold truth not by the truth I do right please state your name spell your last of the rec Eric Halpert HPT licensed professional engineer and planner you're good to go board access and and Mr Halper your office prepared this what's called a minor s plan is that correct that is correct would you U referring to the exhibits as they're as they're um put on the screen would you identify First where this property is located what the surrounding uses look like yes certainly the property is located on the north side of bethl Church Road it is not too far approximately 700 uh 650 ft from the intersection with South New Prospect roadway the subject property is located within the R1 Zone to the rear there are properties within um The r-15 Zone the project is located within an area that is um both residentially developed and closer to the intersection um there are commercially developed uh properties and it is the NC Zone as you get closer to the um at the at the intersection the site is called out 864 bethl Church Road and the site currently has a home with various residential improvements the site correct the site is presently um improved with a single family dwelling with um three existing nonconformities the lot width um is deficient there's a front back a front setback variance it is at 35.1 FT and um there is a small sidey yard setback of 19 ft where 20 ft is required and if the board would approve this application the residential Amendment such as the pool will be removed um so that only the the house of worship and the associated driveway and parking would be located on the property yes all right you want to go to the next exhibit yes could you can you please go to the next sheet and can you zoom in a little more just to the uh plan the board is looking at um the U minor site plan the applicant is proposing to convert the existing single family two story dwelling to a place of worship with a um and uh with um a floor floor space of the first floor is um 1,100 78 square ft the second floor there is an overhang um that is noted by certain dashed lines on the plan so the second floor is slightly larger it is at 1,386 Square ft 1,368 Square ft however um most of the portion is used uh by the proposed main s is going to be used to be a main sanctuary there are certain um steps which are not included in the main sanctuary area and so the parking calculation was used for a main sanctuary area of 1,297 square ft which results in a parking requirement of 17 and 17 physical spaces are provided with one of them as an EV which counts as two spots and so it is considered as um 18 spots are proposed and and there will also be ADA Compliant parking ADA Compliant parking um is proposed as well the applicant is not um proposing any site signage the applicant is proposing to improve the um site with a two-way driveway providing um access to two parking areas totaling as we mentioned 17 spaces a refuge location fire has reviewed and approved um the site there is access on three sides County there's access on three sides the parking area provides two sides the front of the property is near the roadway the Fire official has reviewed the plan and has approved the application does not meet the requirements of uh the storm water management rules um however the applicant is proposing storm water management measures due to the increase in impervious um coverage and the applicant will comply with the board engineer comments regarding soil testing um and other technical revisions regarding the storm water managements you mentioned fire approval there is a report dated December 4th um correct correct there are comments within that report you're prepared to address all of those comments yes there are comments um in the report regarding placement of fire hydrant and knoxbox but we'll comply with the we could comply with the comments but essentially regarding the layout the Fire official has approved the layout uh sight lighting and Landscaping regarding the um uh sight lighting and uh Landscaping there is um lighting that is proposed the applicant will provide cut off Shields and will address the board comments regarding demonstrating to where the foot candles hit 0.0 the applicant um could you go to the next sheet please the applicant this is a colored rendering of the of the um you could zoom into the plan um Anthony thank you the applicant is proposing um landscaping and buffering there are comments from the Lance from the uh Township uh tree expert and the applicant is able to comply with the comments of the tree expert there was a specific comment regarding providing more distance between the curb to the existing tree here and the applicant is able to attempt to work with the um tree expert and the board engineer to shift the driveway slightly by approximately a foot um to uh provide more distance and the existing trees in the rear of the property are going to be maintained and when you say tree expert we're referring to CME reports dated December 12th from Sher from sh correct yes okay and there are um landscape comments within the board professional both the RVE and Owen little reports we'll address those as well yes I'm sorry continue please um septic or sanitary s this is uh the project is going to be connecting to the public system um and the MUA uh the project is conditioned upon mua approval and public water public sewer and public water yes are there sidewalks there are the could you go back there are side could you go back to the previous um sheet please uh the app there are sidewalks on the street correct there are sidewalks and the applicant is going to improve the frontage that's yes that we need over there you need the sidewalk yes we will yes they acknowledge they need them the pl show proposed sidewalk if if you want we'll install them yes yes and we do and we want no parking signs on both sides of the street we can ask the governing body that's not an I understand that but the biggest issue there is there is a hill I lived around the corner I go by that every day and there is a hill on the Eastern side of that there's very poor sight line and somebody comes over that rise and there are cars parked along there it's going to be a nightmare so please make every effort if the board grants the approval a condition could be that we will petition the mayor and both sides of the road yep on both sides we but again it's the governing body's call not our call I I'll be putting in my plug with the governing body okay I'll go through the and then um in terms of instead of going Point by Point by the with the board professional reports um all the technical comments you would agree to address as a condition of approval yes so if there's anything that Ernie or Doug if you want us to hit specifically we will otherwise engineering's finished I have to I think you and and and you may want we have to put a planning testimony to support the variances I don't know if you want to hear that now or if you want to hear first the architecture you're here you're sitting in that seat let's make the most of it not a lot of moving around we're going to do this quickly the the applicant um is seeking um variances regarding the um front yard setback variance side yard setback variance and lot width there may be a variance as well regarding the driveway jutting slightly because of the building there is a certain section those are existing conditions except for the driveway EX for the driveway what I mentioned until now is existing conditions the driveway there is a certain the driveway generally maintains the 10 ft near where the building um exists the driveway juts to approximately 6.3 ft um at its closest to the property which may be a vary under the new place of worship ordinances and the applicant um is seeking variances from those um variance relief and I believe that uh variance relief can be granted under both uh C1 hardship and C2 C1 hardship um this application involves a specific piece of property with a structure that is lawfully existing the existing non-conformities are not going to change the site is narrow that drives the lot width variant the existing placement of the structure results in the front and sidey yard setback variants I would argue also that the placement of the driveway that we just mentioned a portion of which would appear to require the relief from the place of worship requirement is also a C1 because it is driven only by the site's narrowness and existing structure and will it will it present a unless you want to hear more planning testimony ER any will it will it have a negative impact on the Zone plan or the um zoning ordinance or impact on the neighborhood there will be no substantial detriment to the public good associated with the application the applicant is proposing a permitted use that will provide significant improvements to the existing condition of the site there will be substantial landscaping and buffers provided along both sides and as a permitted use it will not impair the purpose and intent of the Zone plane oh and no parking in the driveway no parking in the driveway there area cor do you mean to that we should propose a sign signage signage with no parking in the driveway the applicant will add no sign signage of no parking within the driveway good that concludes Mr halper's teson any anything from the board for this gentlemen just just a real quick to make sure um so on the back I see handicap parking spaces I'm assuming then that the new in the back will be handicap accessible the entrance the the there is an entrance it will be accessible um the first the first floor is going to be accessible yes okay and we do have the architect here anything else M de Maro are you also testifying about the um statement of operations that was yes he okay and is there going to to be um it looks like on the architectural plans it says Coffee room is there any kind of kitchen or anything that's going to be part of this I'll let I'll let the architect is here speak to that okay um and could you just talk a little bit about what on the statement of operations just yes thank you um specifically um services will be held 7 days a week beginning at 7:15 a.m. and ending at 8:15 a.m. in the evening 8:45 p.m. through 9:15 p.m. there may be in the future afternoon services from 2: p.m. to 2:15 p.m. approximately 20 congregants attend the services during the week 10 to 12 congregants arrive by car a significant number of the congregants live um on uh in the neighborhood and do not drive this number remains fairly consistent across services on the Sabbath the services are a little later a little bit uh lengthier 8:45 a.m. until 11:00 a.m. uh the estimated 35 M member families will walk to attend these Services only walking is permitted on chabis there is trash removal that is uh shown on the plan and the applicant is going to maintain the proposed storm water facilities and would there be any bar mitzvah bot mitz no there no is it currently being used as a shol we're told that it's it was a single family house they were having services and it evolved into a more formal use yes that's why we're here thank you been used as a Shore for years anybody else that's fine thank arit architect architect would be nice look better and just to confirm no no weddings no Banquets no no nothing okay all right please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes I do all right and we accept your credentials go ahead nice say your name anyway so the record's clear gut G okay Mr gut you're the architect who prepared the FL plant basically for the application correct correct um do we have those up Anthony up the and then the house I think we submitted the house too the diagram of the home so let's wait till they come up but while we're waiting there was a question about the kitchen why don't we deal with that yeah no no kitchen no no bitzas or anything there will be a coffee room which we'll have like for a kid a shift the doing like a warming just to keep the food warm no no kitchen no prepairing kitchen and the other question is that there is a garage that's not reflected as being used that's going to be solely for storage that's storage correct the wool the wo the wool that's dividing that that garage in half is for structure purposes it used to be a house now it's a going be a synagogue it's going to be more loow so that's just to break up the span that's what that wall is about so the the the diagram in front of us is the home that's the home the facade is not changing so the exterior of the home is not changing in any way correct I think we we prepared a rendering for it that's one of the exhibits sheet four of the other the second file Anthony it wouldn't be that one it's it's a separate exhibit not in here well we could that's okay the FL plan itself um is that on this exhibit yes okay so why don't we get to that that's that's down one sheet down one maybe not yeah let's you know A4 would be okay there we go so the second floor is getting all cleaned out all the rooms are coming out and it will consist entirely of the new of the synagogue besides the stairs the first floor which is on the left side so those rooms are getting converted we have a coat room and we have a coffee room and we just have that garage that's going to be used for storage we have existing bathroom that's going to remain and we had a laundry room that used to be that bathroom is there that's going to stay that used to be a laundry room in Mechanicals we're going to Woll off the mechanical area and get another handicap bathroom over there that is a new door that's on grade that's accessible that deck is there um Auto uh automatic sprinkler system will be provided for emergency lighting and exit signs will also will be added the existing construction type is 5B and what remain as 5B and as stated previously no proposed changes to the facade and will it be handicap accessible well the first floor will be the second floor um has has two means of Eis but it will not be a ramp is not required because the stairs are there and as per the rehab code uh a ramp is not required but someone can get from the handicap stall to the first first floor of the building correct through the accessible sidewalk that yeah that's on grade level that's what we have with the architect just one quick question so the second floor all the walls will be taken out so it's one open space correct will there be any load issues load bearing issues so there there used to be a sailing there that's also going to be taken out um so those loadbearing walls were holding the sailing so once the sailing goes out and the walls goes out so it's just the issue of thrust from the rafters so there's going to be metal ties that are going to thin metal ties that are going to go across every periodically that's going to avoid the thrust this too okay thank you Mr Marza how old is the house I'm not sure it's pretty old I would say 60 60s yeah I think and you're not going to do any ex I've been here since 1960 1970 and that house was there before I got here and you're not you're not planning on doing any exterior work it's not as nice as that building we saw before but it's it's not bad hey I'll get looks clean and neat I think it's an asbest front um it's possible we're not going to start it might be asbest front you might want to might want to do something about the front it's really pretty a I thought was the word I'd use not tactful but you know I could use some uh renovation modernizing I know modernizing is your thing so consider it might need a little work you could you could look into that we could look into it it's hard to you might want to do that I mean this is your place of worship you you want it to look nice that is true and uh and there'll be no parking on the front lawn there are a ton of cars parked there every single day well they don't have all this um yes well we can't wait yes it will be an improvement I agree it's not that many you know congregants and they're all going to f the back it's a small congregation I'm sure they'll be very happy there they've been very happy there for quite the while agreed anything else Mr Hower that deck is on the second floor right correct is that an existing deck you building something new there that that deck is there yeah it's going to be extended though right new portion of deck correct yeah I just have on the record make sure that can support 87g there will be extended correct and support 87 congregants potentially as well if it's again I want to mention that also besides that what we spoke about in the garage we're going to be sistering all the joist because because it's it's it's it's old house and uh it was obviously a house 40 lbs per square foot we're going to make sure that it's um able to accommodate the larger loads of 100 pounds per square foot needed for house of worship correct thank you any other questions ladies gentlemen Mr Ray is next Mr Ray because we we're not getting our is worth out of him tonight and he only he didn't testify to the first one because he he forgot the time of the meeting right you would have testified to four I forgot we start at 6:30 now I you swear affirm tell truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do all right good John Ray Rea with MCN and Ray professional engineer again I'll be very brief uh based on the size of the sanctuary area the number of parking spaces that are being proposed I did do a traffic statement it's going to generate a relatively minim amount of traffic there will be some um congregants that will walk from the immediate neighborhood so from a traffic perspective it will be fairly minimal the one thing I did want to address in a little bit more detail is uh in Mr Peter's report on page five item D1 traffic circulation and parking there was an issue of whether bethl Church Road is a residential street or a collector Street it is a classic collector Street uh it it carries a significant volume of traffic it extends to the East and Howell Township terminates at A T intersection at Kent Road I've done some traffic counts at that intersection it's a collector roadway and that's it that's the or that's an ordinance question I think yes because I asked the same question it it's a classic collector Street yes that concludes our entire presentation Madam chair we're prepared to questions professionals have any comments on this project any board questions or comments on this project let's open it up to the public if the public has any uh questions for the professionals please come forward seeing no one come forward I close the cross examin cross examination portion of this application Sullivan if anyone has any comments General comments on this project please feel free to come forward seeing no one come forward I move the close the public uh comment portion of this application solivan would you like to conclude sir no I we I believe it's a great project I think that we've addressed everything that the professionals have raised in their reports and request that the board Grant the approvals all will seek a motion I think it's pretty cut and simple and the house is there and just reusing it and probably used that way for how many years now I make a motion to approve I uh second that motion Sullivan and and add to it that um it's good to see applications coming forward that address the issues that people have had I like the fact that you've accounted for parking that you're going to account for the upgrades to the building uh we really do appreciate these kind of applications and we thank you for coming forward and the motion to approve with the Motions I mean with with the variances with the VAR with the variances yes uh we'll take a roll call please Mr brzy yes Mr Bernstein Mr marzo yes Mr heler yes Miss Rose Mr Tremor yes Mr weart Mr wall yes Mr Sullivan yes Dr Campbell yes and congratulations thank you thank you all have a great holiday thank you motion to close I'll take it motion to close all in favor I we'll see