##VIDEO ID:5vLtwPRdo70## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e understand that people have not had a chance to review them so we will um address them at our next meeting uh do we have any minutes this evening Elizabeth no Madam chair okay and do we have a voucher for this evening no Madam chair okay all right I have several announcements uh so bear with me here because there's been a number of changes uh first um application for tonight was a Partners LLC um that is going to be carried to the March thank you 19th meeting with no notice is Mr Paper sick second on the uh agenda was Tracy Place LLC that is being carried to March 5th with no notice no additional notice and application number three Israel burn bomb um 263 Jackson Pines Road that has also been carried I'm not sure sure if everybody got that notice but that has also been carried and that'll be March 5th with notice however they have to Ren notice yes please yes okay so forgive me I don't have legal counsel to turn to but here's what I can share with you from the email that I received uh Mr Peters got late notice asking him to please provide a an updated review letter that's all I know and I don't have councel to uh confer with so if after we discuss the council if it's possible we can bring that back up at that time if you don't mind all right thank you I do understand what you're saying however and especially based on the past discussions okay um and then a matter for discussion tonight obviously we have two the first one is we need to um we need to appoint a zoning board attorney so let's open the floor for discussion on that matter I would I would like to make a motion we have the discussion first yeah yeah actually I have a question procedural question is is that okay ask now yes as part okay so just to make sure I understand um someone makes a motion before someone seconds it we are allowed to don't don't second it yet we are allowed to have a discussion about that motion yes but we somebody can second it but you can discuss the motion that's on the floor we can't discuss any other issues right just you can discuss the motion itself that is on the floor okay so so even after someone seconds it you can still have the discussion right before someone starts um voting right someone seconds it we can have that discussion even if it's second okay right once we start voting though that's it you have to vote one of three ways yes no or yes no or Upstate that's it you have to vote you're locked in okay or you can recuse yourself and again I'm going to once we have have Council we can address this again yeah but it is my understanding you can recuse yourself if you have some type of a conflict that can result in you having to recuse yourself okay yeah okay the example so actually you technically have four choices is what I'm saying okay that's thank you thank you for that yeah okay in my example was if I'm not ready to vote on that motion because I don't have enough information I want to make that um clear in your question right so start questioning right okay so then we'll discuss it then hopefully we can get enough information to everyone to have right they vote okay thank two two things Mr Martin is is not a a voting member cor so he can't make a motion right and second uh what are the two are the firms that are asking us to approve are they the same firms or we still have um you just I think we good just to announce what the firms are so yeah so the two firms in question that are still um up for appointment are Rosy Mandel forgive me the rest of the names I'm sorry um and Mr dy's firm okay thank you thank you and you're right I should have announced that I apologized okay um so discussion motion however you would like to I mean you know have some discussion whoever would like to go first okay since uh we discussed last time both both firms are are excellent firms and both firms could handle the job however I just had a question about uh the uh Mr dasty and and the his father's firm having uh some problems along the way particularly since uh the uh Elder Mr das's uh one of his Partners is our town attorney and it's very hard to have attorney from this board have to work with with somebody similar uh and I uh just going through the resumés of the uh cypriani firm uh Jean I know quite well I know she she could handle it and her partner uh Miss uh Robin Duo has excellent credentials as we went through last time so I would I would tend to vote for them when the motion comes up no well oh I'm sorry no I I don't want to jump to the gun it seemed like Dr hin was not ready for any motion to be made so I I just can I just ask Dr h a question you mentioned last time as well with everything going on I never got to Circle back you mentioned Chris gasty and his father aren't they separate firms they're separate firms but oh no I'm just I just want to make it clear they're just separate firms and it's just um since we have another Choice uh I would feel more comfortable going going with the uh first firm that we mentioned that is an excellent question and I'm going to sound like a broken record and forgive me I'm not trying to avoid your question I don't know the answer I'm just going to be perfectly Frank I don't know the answer to that um and without Council I I don't know have answer that you know it seems like it seems like we being I know that Mr such and Mr Martins can't vote but you can comment if You' like please don't hesitate um any other questions or comments on the matter M what Mr Hudak had to say or what Mr hofstein brought up the bit the bid went went went out and the bid was answered by three law firms uh what happened when we we had had the vote we there were a lot of questions about Mr Murphy's firm and uh uh what happened happened and and at the time the bids were open I I think enough law firms had had had time to send in their bids too or so I I think what would have happen if it was a direct turndown at the last meeting uh we would have reopened for another motion so I think we should treat it the same way I have a question you said there were comments about Mr Murphy's firm I don't remember there being comments we went around and we voted I don't remember there being comments but that's neither here or there at this point um like I said I don't know the answer so I'd like to hear from everybody and get your opinion Mr such I I I agree with Bob um I mean the board voted uh Ryan Murphy was voted in he's no no longer uh our Council I think it's a whole new playing field to be honest with you I mean as far as yeah there were bids that were uh submitted and opportunities and the board chose who they wanted and at this point right now I I think it's a whole new playing field do Dr Hof we heard from you so oh I'm sorry yeah I'm for just still voting today Mr Hyman so I believe that we did have proper bidding um sometimes you get one application sometimes two three or more I think that it was bit out properly and whoever wanted to submit an RFP was able to and so we have another two rfps that are still willing to do this job we have a very good choice I believe here you know to be able to be made and I don't think that is necessary at all to rebid it Mr bressie I canc Mr himman and added to the fact that if we have to rebid it how many meetings do we have to miss without an attorney before the rfps come in I think that's a main factor too and I'm content with the two rfps they done properly could you speak into the microphone please I can't hear you sorry I concur Mr Hyman and definitely agree that we have the rfps were done properly and that we have two left on there to vote for and I would rather just vote for the attorney tonight and the other problem is if we go for rfps how long do the zoning board have to wait for the RPS to come in and be recognized and get the notice out to the people that want to bid on it I think it would really hurt the zoning board for couple of weeks thank you m part is um I I think as well that um two you know two options are you know it's it's it's not like we have a dir of options um I also think that if we were to want to consider rebidding um probably would have been beneficial to consider that before this moment um I would be prepared to move forward with the vote and um I I you know one of the first thoughts as well that I had was uh it it would be very challenging I mean look how many in in just the the short time that we have not had an attorney um how many things came up and you know we we I think I think it would be uh a big detriment to our process if we didn't have one but um you know not not only that I don't want that to make it seem like we uh like we have uh you know any like there's a lack of due process in the RFP uh process I think it's sufficient in my opinion and at this point I would be prepared to move ahead Mr hi I agree with um Mr Bry I if you know I'm prepared to make a motion tonight as well or to vote tonight but if we don't have Council for the ne if we have to rebid how long are we not going to have councel is can someone answer that or is there a time frame like how how long usually does it take for get the rfps and then vote so if we have our next meeting are we going to have it by then like three questions that's great question Mr Martins um I I guess let me just procedurally this aside um one of our councils resigns right um you'd go out for for a new bid and right you go out for a new bid in the mean time is there a provision for what do we do we need to keep functioning we can't function without a coun is there some provision for a temporary counsil or something just to keep us going and and my question is really not specific to to to this one right now our situation because it's so close to each other but if you had resigned you know in July you know what do we do I I don't know about that but other than that I I don't have any comment can't vote anyway but um yeah so this whole conversation I have to be honest with you is interesting to me I hadn't thought about the concept of a rebid um I don't remember which gentleman said it but whatever you said just triggered that the bids were all done properly however for whatever reason the Town Council or or the governing body let me not say Town Council I do not know who the governing body offered uh issued a new bid for the engineering position when we had four firms so I'm a little I have to be honest with you even though I'm taken back by the suggestion I wasn't prepared for is what I should say I'm a little torn here because look what happened with the engineering role so we had you know your comments and I understand what you're saying I'm not disagreeing with you the bidding process was sent out and was done properly but then what happened in the engineering situation so I'm I'm a little torn here and again I I feel kind of lost because I don't have Council to turn to because we're discussing Council um Jeff can you help me out I don't know um my first thought was that I know for instance when the planning board had a conflict um the township I does believe have a um special counsel who maybe sat in for the planning board attorney at one point point I don't know if we can reach to the planning board attorney to sit in until those rfps come in um certainly I can reach out in the morning to maybe the township attorney to get some guidance but um that's not nothing I can do at this moment I do have have a question um the the bidding goes to the council the bidding doesn't come directly to to his owning the rfps get submitted through the clerk's office and the purchasing department okay so the council has no input in this then I can't say for sure that they do or or they don't I just know that rfps get open by that's why I change so if this is in regards to my comment that's why I changed my comment from the Town Council to the governing body because I do not know who so let's just be abundantly clear according to to uh the the laws on this thing if if you refer to to Cox the Bible of of zoning boards uh land use really uh it it just says that um the zoning board picks their own Council so therefore everything should go to the zoning board not to not not to the council so what pick's own attorney I mean so I can appreciate that but then why did they do that with the engineering so do you understand my dilemma here I I I'm not disagreeing with you I'm not saying that the rfps were not done properly that is not what I'm saying I'm saying if they were all done properly then why did we have a rebid when we had four applications for engineering so this is my struggle here and unfortunately I don't know the answer because we don't have an attorney because that's what we're discussing well you talk about a rock in a hard place like let's be realistic here and I I don't know that it's even appropriate to because Miss ciani is one of the attorneys discussing I've hesitated twice now to call her and ask her but I don't know I'm to the chair on the engineering uh applications that were sent in the uh three that that as for the job of engineer all three were be sh the two that that came back we were new members so maybe everybody withdrew as far as we know and two new ones came out wasn't that one was left the two were left all three were gone so they had no choice but to open the remitting on that well that was not my understanding but again I don't know all the inner workings I was not involved in that um it just I'll be honest with you it makes me uncomfortable and I'm I'm trying to do the the right thing here okay I'm trying to do the right thing here and I don't have someone who can guide me and say go with it don't go with it what is the proper thing to do my gut right this moment which I tend to like to go with is to say let Mr pereral speak to special counsel tomorrow because I don't want to do the wrong thing I don't want to do something that's going to cost us later or cause a problem later well I'll be reaching out to the town attorney right I'm sorry that's what I meant sorry you said special counsel I'm sorry mad chair yes I I just have a thought um typically I don't know if if if it would be right now it's discussion But ultimately whatever we do or don't do well whatever direction we would go with I'm not sure procedure but my thinking is someone would have to make a motion that motion would have to be seconded and every everybody would have to vote I guess the question procedurally is um what happens if someone makes a motion that is I don't know you know that not a legal motion to make or you know can't like let let's just so I don't know um that piece of it but like regardless my thinking is you know like if I'm you know if someone's making a motion if whatever path we go it's going to have to go through that process um I mentioned I'm prepared to make a motion I I don't you know I don't want Mr Hudak to feel like railroaded by my motion um but you know some that I I think my thinking is that's got to be the process regardless of you know what path Madam I I concur with that and I I guess these bids are still active they're current they're not old and uh I think the consensus was to move on with the vote I see no reason why the vote fails then we have another problem may I M chair can I yes okay so I I'm just of what's going on and listening I would say and because from your words that you don't know may I suggest if even appropriate if someone made a motion to table this entire thing until because like you said you don't know and before people start making motions to vote for things that we don't have legal representation to that we're going to turn around and find out that because there are people on the board and because the board already previously voted for an attorney someone made a motion to table this until the answers were found out so I always have to comment on everything right um it's okay you're more we we need your opinion as well okay so my opinion is going to agree with exactly what you said I I I I don't think it's appropriate for the for to make a motion and have a decision made when it's obvious that all the information is not available right now you need counsel I think we all need counsel or some kind of opinion from counsel I think tabling it getting a special counsel doing it the right way and not forcing it down whenever you make hasty decisions it always comes back to bite you so why right I understood why as far as hey we don't have any Council all these applications we're going to resolve that part of it because you're going to have a special counsel um that's my opinion that's really chair I'm sorry I'm forgive me yes I'm not sure what the debate is if we didn't have good rfps that submitted I understand why we would want to rebid um I think we have good competent rfps that submitted I believe the consensus on this board was to go ahead with a vote so I'm not sure why this is still um I I understand Mr hudak's Point Mr such's Point uh your point and Mr Martin's I I very much understand you but I believe that these rfps are still Al and they're with those terms and conditions they didn't have to resubmit it and I believe that we have a good option or options on the table and I believe that we should be voting on this Jeff I'm sorry um I do not have that paperwork with me from last week with the rfps of course it's sitting at home um um somebody indicated that the the other engineering uh rfps were withdrawn do is I don't remember that being the case do you that's not my understanding that's not mine either and that's why I'm struggling here um I don't know what to do yes okay now we're on um through the chair since the the next schedule meeting we have some a couple of applications that that that have people been preparing for for for a long time and we have to have somebody an attorney who can go through the the paperwork and get us started on that uh we also knowe that this month there is a third Wednesday two weeks from today if uh uh the room is free uh maybe we could get everything resolved then just put this vote this off until two weeks from today and and get legal advice from the town attorney on what we should do and and uh This Way whomever we appoint we'll have time to be ready for the applications coming up on March 5th honestly I understand what you're saying this is no disrespect to anybody sitting here I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place if I make a decision that is wrong I am hurting the township and putting us in a place that may be in a bad situation I do not feel comfortable voting and moving forward at this point because I just don't know if it's the right thing to do why don't we so why don't we appoint a temporary attorney send it out for RFP and um see what happens there we have an attorney sitting here in the audience I'm sure she's chomping it the bit to get [Music] involved there you go would you loveely madam chair yes I I don't I don't know the facts on the engineering but I've seen bids and rebids go out if they came in wrong if there wasn't efficient noise there's a lot of reasons they rebid and I don't have the ti of engineering rebidding into this microphone please we have we have we have B that are available bids that are processed bids that were done properly we have a motion and I'm I'm ready I'll second we don't have a motion yet I thought she made the motion she did not make a motion we started for discussion I said I would like to make a motion but I and then Dr hste interrupted and right and so that's why I said I know she didn't make a motion because Dr House interrupted but you know I woulded to but I kind of like Mr hudak's suggestion if you want me to be honest if we app Point Jeff is that a well again he's not in the church see you can ask I think Madam chair we make motion I think we're within our rights to appoint a uh temporary attorney to help us along with this process and to answer any questions we may have that's not how the rfps went out well suggested why don't we put up a motion whether the board wants to carry this to a a separate meeting two weeks from tonight and see how that vote goes if that vote fails and nobody wants to carry it then we may just have to go out and pick an attorney and uh let the let the town attorney decide that we were wrong and didn't call us back and and say you have to revote there were couple of options we just can't keep putting this off because of what happened last time yeah sure just speaking to your microphone I have a question from mran sitting there I don't think you can see that's now as an attorney I have a I but there's no public discussion that's why not about this I don't think we can there's no we're we're discussing the she is special counil to the township you should be GED you can't do this I think that's okay much out um well let's let's move on I'm gonna make a motion to carry the appointment of uh an a board attorney until the third Wednesday of you mean fifth Wednesday January fifth Wednesday this is the third Wednesday the fifth Wednesday I mean the fifth Wednesday I knew what you meant I'm sorry okay the fifth Wednesday of uh you want to make another meeting you want to make another meeting Madam chair have another meeting and reason would be to carry it get get a ruling we don't have another we have to see if it's is there a possibility of making another meeting meaning we don't have one we can hold a special meeting we can have a special meeting like we did for the eth if that's what you're I'm just answering that question the question is if it's available have oh I'm pretty sure the room's available that Wednesday I know it's not available next Wednesday but I'm pretty sure it is available that last Wednesday because that's the fifth Wednesday of a month there usually nothing this is something we've done a number of times have a Fifth Third meeting so I'm sorry Mr put the motion on the floor let's vote and see what everybody says if they want to carry it someone wanted to make a comment here still want to make it no I was going to say if I'm going to be town that Wednesday the 29th yes so I don't know if that like can the alter alternative or alternates can they yes then the alternate alternate yes the alternate I said alternative the alternate would then step in and vote so at that point Mr Martins would vote go so just in case again if you went on vacation whatever that's what that would be the procedure got it get second all right so Dr put a motion on the floor that we say it again please sry that we carry the appointment of the uh board attorney until the fifth Wednesday of this month and before that is seconded yes certainly we need to find out if the room is available and find out who from the board is available and we'll have to notice and do our special meeting um Dan so to speak so I was just going to ask uh Elizabeth if she can uh verify that the room is available for the 29th you don't have to do it right there second but you can check the calendar actually right you could check the calendar and see if the 29th is that okay with you Mr that's perfect all right so um we know that M Rosal will not be here I'm just going to go around Mr Martins yeah I I'll be here yeah okay M Rosal you will not miss Parnes Mr Bry I me question that thing see you can change something I am available as far as I know I know I'm not the 22nd uh Mr Heyman I heard you say it's your wife's birthday so you will not be here uh but Mr such I'm I'm sorry Dr hofstein forgive me be here and Mr Su I could be avable who that with B on okay all right um so Jeff the room Elizabeth's going to check if the room is available we I will reach out to D if this should P if this should pass I would reach out to dwn obviously about a special meeting and we've already checked everybody's availability um and then we would have to go from there correct is there anything I'm missing um I don't think so okay um so Dr hin has made that motion um do we have a second second okay Elizabeth roll call please so yes we're going um Let me let me just be clear for everybody yes is that we're going to table it and uh defer to uh town coun the uh Town Township attorney excuse me on how to handle and we'll have a special meeting on the 29th um Mr bressie and Miss Parnes will check their schedule and get back to us uh Mr Dr hin has put a motion on the floor Mr Hudak has seconded it so a Yes means that we will table it and come back and in no means no we will not roll call please Mr Russy no Mr Hyman no Dr hofstein no no Mr Hudak wait wait minute wait a minute you just made the motion your own motion I'll change it I'll vote Yes one second again I don't this is really getting out of I think it seems to me like Dr hin just wanted to move things along what's your correct and put something on the table vot you have to vote for a motion the motion is on the floor everybody has a vote I just put it out there so we can make a decision what I maybe I missed it who second it Mr buak okay Dr hoffstein what's your vote no Mr Hudak yes Miss Parnes no Miss Rosal no Miss Bradley yes all right so you don't want to to table it yes okay so can I make a motion to yes but before any motion is made I I want to be abundantly clear we are doing this with the understanding that we do not know how we should proceed we do not have Council to refer to because the council that is in the audience who I would love to ask the question but can not is the council that's up for a vote so for the record I am being abundantly clear we are moving forward not knowing if there are going to be any repercussions and what the repercussions may be so very right so um actually um it's it it's and again I'm not a professional in this but it would be my opinion that we voted on whether we want to carry or not so considering that the consensus of the board was that we do not want to carry um it it would seem to me like it's appropriate that we can proceed um with the motion and uh considering that um it is you know from from my uh research it the the firm of Rothstein Mandel let's see if I get them stro and chiani I think there's a fifth in there that I missed um that's why I quit when uh has um has uh extensive experience in this town um and extens extensive experience in land use and representing boards and I would like to make a motion to appoint said firm I'll second that motion all right before we vote can I just ask sorry I know I don't get to vote but I just want to ask some question a little more information if I could um and if I could ask Mr bressie who's who it seems like you have a lot of experience um in a normal situation a a council resigns right which is what happened here what are the next steps do we go out and ask for bids you just resign do we go out and ask for bids or or do we bid or or do we pick from what was previously submitted oh if the bid are current you go with the bids if you have to resubmit or there's no bids out there you have to put out a notice for bids there's a process to get bids legal around a notice you have to put them out okay but you have bids that are current here you can use those you don't have to you don't Council resigns you don't have to go out and ask have some experience okay okay um but but but that's normal procedure right it's okay to use the bids that were there from prior is that right I wouldn't say six months prior but you're talking in the same it it depends on the time days right yeah talking six months I would say no you want to go off okay that's clear that's please don't take Mr bry's word as gospel he's not an attorney and you know he is is trying to get through to you know get his pick in and you know I feel like I'm backed into a corner now and um you know I am uh choosing sides on the sand lot and I and I'm getting last pick and there's one person remaining and and that's not a good position to be in that's why I feel as though we need to to rebid this and have a whole new cast of car and make our decision intelligently from that instead of you know this is listen this is who we want this is who you're going to vote for which we all know took place so yeah and the reason I asked just to be clear is so so if I'm a counsel out there I would like the opportunity to send in a bid right which I didn't before but now you have you have an opening I would like an opportunity to send in a bid and and uh go up against the other ones that's why I asked that question right if someone resigned it would be fair to put it out there and now allow everybody to rebate right mad chair I I anyway um if I could respond Mr Hudak I you know I held back because you said you would feel would feel railroaded um so you know seemed like there a discussion uh was in place and I didn't want to you know push in my motion and then say well now you know the motion's on the table we have to vote but we did vote on the option to carry it based on an RFP so you know to me that that was that was decided upon by the board whether we want to carry um and we also voted for Mr G's office Murphy and and that got squashed that was a a a a fair vote and then when it didn't go your way then now it's a problem so you're not being fair and and I actually just have to say in in all my years of being on boards I've never seen someone make a motion and then vote against their own motion so I just have to yeah I I've never seen that I mean it's a I mean that to meion right so I mean I I think going back to we did vote we vot voted for Mr Gartner's office and for Sean and and for Ryan Murphy he's so for some reason that seems to just be omitted from the entire yeah right it's just that seems to be just forgotten part of the entire conversation and I think that's what's I guess the elephant in the room at least from where I standpoint the board voted and Mr Gardner's office one and Mr Murphy is no longer representing us going back to my original statement of what you said you don't know the answers so instead of trying to just force a situation that we could find out from Jeff tomorrow that the town attorney says absolutely not and then all of this is moot anyway so going back to saying possibly tabling it until we have an actual Council tell us yes you can do this no you can that's all I'm saying the only problem now is we have a motion on a second on the on the uh floor so I believe we have to move forward with the motion on the second that are on the floor um any other comments no additional comments roll call please Mr Bry yes Mr Heyman yes Dr hofstein Mr Hudak no Miss parz yes Miss Rosal yes Miss badley abstain Miss cypriani let me just be clear for the record that is no disrespect to your firm I'm uncomfortable casting a vote yay or nay given the situation I have put on the record I don't know the answer I don't feel comfortable putting anybody in a a situation where they're in Jeopardy so please do do not take that personally but I'm just not comfortable so what was the total list four yes one no two abstain four yes two one noain all right Miss ciani you've now been appointed counsel now that being said I do still believe that that question should be asked so Jeff you will follow up tomorrow like I said this is in no way disrespecting Miss ciani I just think to make sure we cross our tees and Dot our eyes I will thank you madam chair if if I may just speak before I come up just because I and I think that you handled it appropriately um because I was the person or one of the people that was being discussed though I was of course jumping out of my skin wanting to answer I am um now for the moment board attorney no offense taken at all it's you the role is as I know that you are all aware to be the attorney for the board and all members of the board and that's I will do the best that I can with that um I would like to answer some of the questions that were being asked obviously Mr Boro at your direction will confirm with the township attorney but just because there were so many things where people were saying you know we don't have legal representation I will give you what I believe to be the law but obviously confirmed with the township attorney so the answer to a and I'm not sure I remember all of these the the issues that came up um but certainly it is appropriate in the case where someone resigns it is if you have RFP you could go back you can go back even through the year though as Mr presy had indicated at some point they feel pretty stale and you wouldn't go back equally you do have the right to go out for New RFP I I don't know exactly what happened with the engineer a um RFP having been here at the last meeting and this meeting I got some sense of it certainly it is more typical to open it back up before um you get to kind of the reorg moment um but it certainly can you can go back out and to a point that was made um or something you discussed you can go out throughout the year so um in every professional appointment that you make you always have the options to resend to terminate there are a lot of cases out there on those issues so you know I I don't know what happens going forward of course my dream is that the board moves is one and you know two months hence everyone's thrilled with the appointment but even if it's if but if not either now or at some point in the future you don't lose the ability to go back out if that's something that the board should choose to do um it is uncommon but it is not unprecedented for someone to make a motion and vote against it just so you know legally that is permissible you can you know have whatever feelings that you have about whether it's a good practice or a bad practice but it is certainly a legally permissible practice and uh I'm G to come sit up there and that's acceptable thank you by the way thank you okay Madam chair I want to just jump in real fast uh when you did sorry Jeff I didn't hear you when you did your announcements you neglected to mention the Rosen Bloom application so if you would yes yes um I did miss an announcement thank you uh Mr Puro uh the Rosen Bloom application from 445 Brewers Bridge Road variance 3464 has been withdrawn um it had been carried from the 11 2024 meeting this was one of those cases Mr Hudak referred to earlier uh where we uh set a limit of how long they could continue to do this and they have withdrawn the application thank you for the reminder um Miss ciani welcome um I'm sure that is not common um it had a special Jack kind of feel to it but it's not entirely unprecedented for difficult things so for your first order of business if you would please we Prof well we still even though we have no applications I'm going still swear you in correct yes well miss San will your name Mark R board engineer Bernie Peters board planner Jeffrey Papo zoning officer and do you I do yes um on to our next and hopefully last very short matter for discussion um we need to as you all know Mr Stafford Smith has moved on uh to another position in the township um so we need to uh appoint a VI uh select not appoint select a vice chair uh questions comments concerns issues whatever I'm not I don't have the ability to but I uh would strongly recommend uh Mr Hudak for that position can I ask you a question so can I'm going to ask you your first question um just to be clear so we're making sure we're doing this all properly the two alternates do not have a vote in the vote for a vice chair that's correct okay unless someone right right okay but certainly can make recommendations right they can still comment okay sorry I miss he said unless someone was absent was AB absent not obain okay okay so I have a comment um believe it or not um yeah so I for whatever it's worth in my opinion I AG I agree again and um I would also vote for just if I had a vote any other questions comments I would like to make a motion to appoint Mrs parnis as Vice chair given the nature of Mr hudak's comments um the attacks I don't think are appropriate and I therefore do not believe it is appropriate to appoint them as Vice chair sorry i' like a second Mr Hyman's motion uh before second I I didn't make a motion I thought you did I said I would like to I said I did not so I am going to uh make some comments here and I'm sure that there will be some who don't like it so I will just state that for the record right now um I'm going to respectfully disagree with your comments Mr uh Mr Heyman m Mr Hudak comes with uh wealth of experience from the planning board I think he uh brings a different perspective and just like Mr Stafford Smith because he the experience that he had I think that brings a different perspective um and a different set of experience when you have um uh some new members and a mix of older members I think that it's important to get different perspectives so I do uh disagree with uh your comments um we can all be adults and agree to disagree and treat one another with respect and be professional you don't have to agree with his comments I'm not saying you have to agree but I think it's uh we should all feel comfortable here voicing our opinion respectfully and when I say respectfully we're not he didn't call anybody out of their name he didn't he didn't curse or anything like that so I am going to dis disagree with your comments um uh you know I I like I said I think he's got a wealth of knowledge he brings a different pers perspective the planning board is definitely different than the zoning board so I think he brings a different perspective to the conversation so I do disagree that the comments that you disagree with should be held against them Madam chairman yes Mr Heyman I am a gas at your comment and and it is so wrong here you're nominating uh someone for vice chair who was un clear what it meant to abstain in a vote and and you want someone with that lack of experience and lack of knowledge to be Vice chairman I I really have a problem with that and it seems to me that you know you have your agenda and you have your following here and and you are all making a play here to control this board and that's the ultimate uh goal that I see and and I got a real problem with it and I have a problem with you taking the acception of what I had said because I I I was quite restrained up until now I appreciate your comments and I very much disagree I feel that you are alleging things against myself and other members of the board which are incorrect and they're not truthful so to be um for you to insinuate that there's preconceived or uh things that were discussed and made up people's minds is totally false and you spreading false information I don't think that's false I think that U certain members uh contacted the press and had these uh things in the Lakewood Scoop uh the articles that were in there and and Mr Murphy is is gonna it's going to it's all going to shake out um thank you if I may mam chair uh yes at the reorganization meeting last week uh Miss pess embarrassed herself and she embarrass the board but trying to change a vote and and uh and change the outcome of the selection of the board attorney and the divisiveness that was caused at that meeting continues till today never in all the years and the many years that I've been on on a zoning board I have never seen members speak to each other or argue with each other over over anything everybody had respect and I I think by doing what was done whether it was intentional or not I just think she's not ready for the office of vice president can I make a a comment yes um before I became the subject matter I actually I I I you know seeing that some of the um comments the the energy behind the comments I I was kind of tempted to say I just wish we could all um you know move toward a productive working relationship as a board um I I think I I there there were things in the last meeting that um that transpired that I I definitely um wish hadn't um I will say though that the the to characterize the divisiveness as being uh uh a repercussion of what happened from from from my actions and comments um I really take issue with because um my I I I felt a division from some comments that were made earlier on and I don't like to have these adversarial kind of mudslinging you know comments going on and and and I and I I was uh not comfortable speaking freely because I didn't want to uh you know say things um that about people or you know make direct uh accusations or you know any kind of negative comments um and so it it felt like one big mind game to me some of the opening some of the statements that that happened and definitely got to my head um and and made it very challenging for me to formulate my thoughts in the moment um and what I really wished that I had done was to request and I I didn't have counsel to guide me um I didn't have legal you know we we didn't have an attorney but what I wish and I I still don't know if this is an option um but what I was hoping to ask just for my own clarification is um you know in instead of abstaining is there a way to like I I expressed I don't feel ready I it was hard for me to articulate my thoughts on exactly um you know what I how how to um frame and and you know and and phrase what I wanted to do but but I I I'm curious actually if if I would be allowed to say I need a few minutes just to just to think through what I want to what I want to say here um and you know immediately before my vote uh the the uh attorney that was the the I think Dr hoffstein said I'll pass for now and he was told you have three options either vote yes no or obstain and I sort of like you know cornered myself into those three options and chose abstain because I really needed just a couple minutes and I I said I needed a couple minutes I didn't have I I in retrospect I wish I would have asked can I have a minute you know to just to clear my mind and sort of clear out some of this noise that's going on um and uh and I I just I it's I take exception with um being called out as the one who caused the divisiveness and I I really hoped and I still hope that you know we can move past this I understand there are people who disagree with things I did um I definitely wish you know certain things went down a different way um but I I I My Hope Is regardless of what happens is that we are able to um you know res act with respect um and and and move forward you know with whichever direction this goes um I just that that's that's my wish and I I I invite the other members of the board to you know to to see if we could you know even if we disagree to to just move forward with uh with without the division and without the hostility I if I may um so my suggestion be is it on is it off what's going on thank you um you have you you have uh Motion in a second you could either take additional nominations at this point or have a vote on that um if there's if there's a belief that additional uh conversation and discussion is going to be helpful then obviously that's something you could have but right now you do have a motion and a second for one nomination I don't know if you wish to take another at this time or have a vote on the pending motion well I was waiting to see what you know if anyone else was going to speak up and voice their opinions and thank you all for expressing your opinions politely and respectfully I do truly appreciate that especially after last week um I would uh nominate uh Mr Hudak for vice chair like I said I think excuse me is there a vote no uh Miss ciani just explained that we could take a another motion we can hear what the nominations are and then the vote would be um in the order that the nom nominations were made so there was a nomination and a second for um Mrs peress now there's been a nomination I don't know if there's a second uh for Mr Hudak obviously there was recommendations made um and then okay was there a second for Mr Hudak not not yet miss I'll second it then so we have a motion and a second for Miss Parnes and a motion and a second for Mr Hudak correct and then because the um nomination for M peress was made first first that that would be the first vote okay so our first vot unless there unless there are more nominations okay no I just just one question back to my very first original question so at this point since we have a second there is no other options the board has to vote and you have three options to vote on on the voting correct uh no okay so but you you basically just back to that I get 10 minutes yeah so that when you when you vote you have the obviously yes no you can if you Rec accuse yourself or say you abstain for a conflict then you don't count towards the Quorum um and you're not considered part of the vote but that is a statement you can make you can abstain or you can make another motion you could make a motion to table uh the calling of the role for some period of time something like that gotcha okay I think it's that last one so in theory if I wanted half an hour to think about it I can take motion to table it and then the next half hour whatever we can vot that yes but I would uh you know I don't know if everybody wants to stay here another half an hour so you might want to make that five minutes I understand I just just yeah I I understand that thank you but yes yes sorry not to be procedes yeah you could do that all right I'll shut up don't like you have to shut up your your opinion is wanted as well that's what you needed yeah just thing excuse me who second Mr hm's Mr Bry okay so we have a motion and the second on the floor for Miss pares and Mr Hudak Miss pes's motion was made in second and first so we'll have a roll call correct I said that right yeah correct yeah a roll call on Miss parz first please a yes or yes or no or abstain right and if the motion is successful then obviously peress takes it if it's not successful we move to the second nomination Mr Bry yes Mr Heyman yes Dr hoffstein No Mr Hudak Miss Parnes yes she can vote for herself yes okay Miss Rosal no I was going to say yes Miss Bradley yes I mean no me is that your final vote Miss okay wait I I feel I'm so when she called me she called my name and I was like yes not even thinking so my vote is no I am very sorry oh Lord okay just send me home now pleas I all right so so that's three yeses and four NOS correct okay my head is on straight now Elizabeth I apologize we have now have a motion and a second on the floor for Mr Hudak roll call please Mr Bry with the comments that was sent to me by Mr hodak back and his attitude on this I'd have to vote no and hope that we can work on the applications together in the future Mr Hyman no M Dr hofstein yes Miss Mr Hudak yes Miss parz I hope that my vote does not make the division wider I my what I said before is sincere I really hope to work together um as a board board but my vote would be no Miss Rosal I do feel that Mr Hudak was voicing his thoughts and his opinion I I vote Yes but I would like to move forward from this and start fresh and I don't like you know having negativity and we're all supposed to work together so um I would like to move past after tonight and just work as one but I vote Yes Miss Bradley yes okay so the motion passes so Mr okay all right is there any more exciting business to be conducted in this no application meeting motion to adjourn I'm sorry before we do that can I please I I would you know I'd be mad at myself if I left here and didn't say this last week I was very honest with you all I was quite Tien back by the things that transpired we have to move forward and work together and like a number of you have voiced we have to find a way in spite of how we feel about what transpired we have to find a way to move forward and work together I also would implore each of you that if you have a question if you have a concern if you have an issue if there's something you're not sure of right ask the question I say this to my children all the time and they're adults now I can't help you if I don't know there's a problem so if you have a qu I applaud you stop saying you don't you ask any questions you don't you don't know the answer ask the question if I don't know it you know I'm more than willing to turn to my counsel I have no problem doing that okay if you're unsure about something if you don't think I've been clear please ask the question let's not let things go and then want to spew well I didn't know I didn't know and I'm this is not directed to anyone in particular I'm making an overall announcement we have to work together so we have to make sure that everybody knows and one thing I think I try to do well is to make sure I include everybody ask everybody's opinion because I do believe it's important everybody has the right to speak up on that note motion to adjourn all in favor all right go go