##VIDEO ID:7uNBYUbY-48## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e for the Pledge of Allegiance I flag United States of America the stand indivisible andice oh thank you njsa 10 4-1 at SEC the open public meetings act notice of this special this is meeting special this regular ordinary meeting the Jackson Township Zoning Board of adjustment has been published and posted in all appropriate locations thank you before we move forward with roll call I'm going to need a motion and a second because we have an acting recording secretary this evening to The Bu so I'll need a motion and a second please to app BR deell is our acting important secretary for tonight second we have a motion we need a second please second call please Mr Bry yes mrman yes Mr Dr hin yes Mr Hudak M pares Mr yes Mr Mar is absent Mr such yes and Miss Bradley yes have our well and we have resolutions this evening yes we do um we have uh several that were before um we've got the uh resolution amended preliminary and final site plan approval with variance relief on properties located at Harmony Road Block 4801 Lots 5 6 8 9 and 10 this was an application that was heard back on November 4th and approved at that time um which was reducing the number of uh market rate units from 2002 I'm sorry 2,22 uh to uh 195 with affordable housing units to remain at 40 but no longer to be integrated into the building but to remain on the property in a separate um building and the uh eligible voters are Mr Heyman Dr hofstein Mr Hudak Miss BRZ M Rosel and Miss Bradley I'm sorry can you give me the names again Council sure Mr Heyman Dr hofstein Mr Hudak M cores M Rosel and Miss Bradley thank you we need a motion motion second mrman yes Dr hopstein yes Mr Hudak M bares yes M Rosal yes and Bradley yes um next there's a series of resolutions we essentially memorializing actions taken by the board regarding the appointment of professionals um first one is 2025-the Mr Heyman Dr hofstein Miss pess Miss Roselle and Miss Bradley motion to approve second please Mr Bry yes Mr hman yes Dr hopstein yes Miss Parnes yes Miss Rosel yes Miss Bradley yes resolution 2025-the as board conflict engineer for the period of January 1st 2025 through December 31st 2025 same eligible voters yeah on the first one yes I'm sorry this and uh Mr rudak is correct I I also well my my goal is to get through these appointments which have already occupied far too much of the board's time and ways that we could maybe streamline the process next year can wait for next year so the eligible voters are Mr Brey Mr Heyman Dr hofstein Mr Hudak Miss Parnes M Roselle and Miss Bradley we have a motion by Miss Parnes that correct second uh Mr Bry yes Mr Hyman yes Dr hofstein yes Mr Hudak M bares yes Mr R yes Miss Bradley yes resolution 2025-the motion Please Mr Brey yes Mr Hyman yes Dr hopstein yes Mr Hudak Miss pares yes Miss Rosal yes and Miss Bradley yes resolution 20258 appointing Remington verick engineers and Affiliates as board traffic engineer for period January 1st 2025 through December 31st 2025 same voters are eligible motion a second pleas motion to approve second have Mr Hudak as second um Mr Bry yes Mr Hyman yes Dr hopstein yes Mr Hudak M Parnes yes M Rosal yes Miss Bradley yes and 20259 appointing tme Associates as board conflict traffic engineer for the period January 1st 2025 through December 31st 2025 same vote voters are eligible a motion second please Mr Bry yes Mr hman yes Dr hopstein yes Mr Hudak M pares yes M Rosel yes and Miss Bradley yes um resolution 202-10 this is simply memorializing the appointment of gerner Mur Murphy llc's board attorney for the period of January 1st 2025 through M 31st 2025 on January 8th 2025 and ratification of acceptance of the resignation of gner refree LLC for the position of board attorney effective January 10th 20202 January 10th 2025 uh all voters are are eligi this is a new resolution motion the second please motion call please Mr Brey yes Mr yes Dr hopin yes Mr Hudak M pares yes m r yes Mr Marts is absent Mr such yes and Miss Bradley yes and finally resolution 2025-the Mandel Str hman chiani PA's board attorney for the period of January 15 2025 through December 31st 2025 motion second motion Mr Bry yes Mr Hyman yes Dr hopstein yes Mr Hudak m bares m Ros yes Mr Mar is absent and Mr such yes and Miss Bradley yes that is all the resolutions that were're on for this evening I'm gonna ask Henry I don't think we do whether we have any minutes for this evening I don't think we do have any minutes no and do we have a voucher for this evening yes we do we have a voucher from King report okay I have a voucher for King reporting for the acting reporting secretary for this evening in the amount of $175 I need a motion in a second so we can get this paig second roll call please Mr bressie yes Mr Hyman yes Dr hofstein yes Mr vak Miss pares yes M Rosal yes Mr such yes Miss Bradley yes M do we have any announcements this evening yes there are two uh the board secretary has advised me that um the application listed number one in the agenda uroi Gua Vos um which had been carried from the December 18th meeting has been carried to the March 19th 2025 meeting no additional notice being required also number three on the agenda and it's a little bit confusing but it's only number three not number two uh cardinali and Jackson Crossing number two Adventure Crossing amended preliminary final site plan phase one is being carried to the March 5th 2025 meeting no additional notice all right we need to swear our professionals please is your right hand do you swear the testimony information questions or comments about to you are about to present for the board represent the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do yes I do please say your name and position for the record Ernie Peters Ford planner Mark ROM board engineer Jeffrey Papo zoning officer we not having executive session for this evening but we do have a matter for discussion um with all the changes over the last couple of weeks we still need to appoint an alternate secretary um so if someone would like to discuss or make a motion nomin have a nomin second I'm sorry asking for a second yes second all right we have a nomination motion second if you take Ro call please Mr Bry yes Mr Hyman yes Dr hopstein yes Mr Hudak yes M cares uh Mr such yes and Miss Bradley yes and now we move on to our other matter for discussion County offices LLC LLC excuse me Megan's associate site plan 6441 DB um administrative approval for landscape plantings Mr Feer good evening Adam feffer turn on behalf of the applicant uh a request was made and submitted by Mr bordon some that we'll have him spor in in a minute um seeking a landscape uh Amendment to the uh previously approved um application um I think it's fairly straightforward if we can't have Mr bordon sworn in well then he'll he'll walk you through uh the change that we're seeking oh sorry nope thank you do you SAR the testy information questions uh you're about to present for the board represent the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do and please H your name and your position and certainly the record uh Ian bordon president of professional Design Services liid New Jersey a professional planner licens inter state of New Jersey graduate of Ruckers University too many years ago to count and uh justified in front of this board for for quite a few years thank you if I turned it on the right way it would help thank you um so Mr bordon we accept your credentials um just for the board members it says that he's the engineer but he's not the engineer he's the planner just for the record thank you that's correct uh good evening uh as evidence of my when I made a joke about my college experience I started this project almost 20 years ago uh I with u Adam's uh former partner I guess right uh Ray presented a site plan application Anthony could you C up the exhibits please we have A1 to A3 um the property is located in North County Line Road just west of uh Brewers Bridge Road it is a site that was zoned multif family and Highway commercial nope that's the wrong project Anthony that would be the county offices file uh the property was z multif family and and uh Highway commercial The Proposal was profer to construct a office building three-story office building that that approv that uh project was granted preliminary and final site plan approval along with the D variant because the office of was not permitted in the multif family Zone the lot was split zoned uh that approval was granted in July of 2008 uh there were three public hearings on that project over the uh winter and spring of 2008 thank you Anthony the property is in yellow and and what we're going to be talking about is on the right side of the page you see County Line Road along the bottom uh this is the property the project is completely constructed that's the office building with the white white looking roof my thing just stopped working um and you see three Pence Brook to the to the uh South and to the to the west or east and south to the right and top of the uh exhibit again we had three hearings on this project several members of of uh three pants Brook appeared objected we had TRC meetings I believe I know we had one at the very least possibly more that I call and uh as a result uh among the many things discussed obviously was the buffering and Landscaping between the office and the uh the Condominiums please go to a 2 Anthony and what you see here is the approved plan uh the approve the orientation is different you see the the office building in the light brown the three Pence Brook buildings in the darker brown and the green the light green is the existing Woods that remained and then the the dark green of of uh circles that was it was agreed during the uh hearing process that we would plant a single row of evergreen trees uh along the three Pen side of the uh the forest basically in their backyard and that's the way the project was approved and the project uh awaited a buyer and and and fairly recently a couple years ago the project started construction excuse me and in October of 2024 I was contacted by the developer who we I had been helping the entire time uh doing site engineering and Survey work etc and they had a legitimate question which is how do we plant these trees on somebody else's property we ordered these trees we want to plant these trees how do we plant them there so I contacted the Township offices uh they assisted me Mr pero assisted me in contacting the homeowners association I set up a meeting with the homeowners association uh that was held on November 5 of 2024 uh we we walked the site discussed it um we learned at the time that they have a sprinkler system in lawn in their lawn area so that certainly created some challenges to planting the trees uh I I I identified a number of challenges besides the fact that permission was needed simply to plant these trees that the the trees being planted were very close to some of the buildings you can see especially on the right and left uh of those three buildings that get very close to those buildings there the existing trees were growing out over the lawn because that's a Southern Exposure they they kind of grew out towards the condos so they had to be trimmed which would probably in my opinion uh kill the trees it would disrupt their existing irrigation system it would damage the lawn area even though it would be replaced it would it would be temp temporary disturbance and it would create Perpetual maintenance obligation for the hoi HOA so I I suggested that why don't we just plant the trees on the office side of the project as a normal project would do put the screening trees on the property that was constructed last uh it was agreed verbally but understood that that was not an approval by the entire board uh my client had purchased the trees because he was very close to obtaining a CO and when you purchase trees from a landscape nursery they don't once they're dug out of the ground they're out of the ground they got to be planted right you can't it's not it's not a returnable item so so uh they planted the trees along so I was directed by the board professionals to apply for what we are here for tonight this this administrative approval which I did two days later in the meantime my client planted the trees and please go to the third and last one Anthony and and here you see the trees plant a little hard to see but the trees planted unfortunately my my pointer died uh the trees thank you Anthony planted um on our side of of the uh property line so that's what we're seeking we're seeking administrative approval to to to change the location of those trees from the HOA property to the subject property um in my opinion that's that's more appropriate to land planning as we know it Landscaping as we know it it serves the same benefit to the uh to the homeowner association and doesn't burden them with any disruption to their property their sprinklers their grass and maintenance u i just and that basically concludes my uh my presentation so that's just simply trying to move the trees any questions or comments for Mr Gordon Mr J Mr hman um Mr bordon is there a specific reason why the proposed originally to put it in three Pence I mean the normal process is you put it on your own property there must have been an exceptional reason why they I I wish I could answer that I tried really I don't remember to answer I was at all the hearings I I did the testimony for the project I remember the TRC meeting it was at Mr Shay's office where we met with the board professionals and that was one of the topics I I don't I even went through my entire file this afternoon all the 2008 documents the review letters from the the engineer at the time and the planner worker that Associates uh I I cannot find find anything unfortunately Ray is no longer here to ask I wish he were for many reasons uh but um I I'm sorry but I I do not recall I will tell you this though one of the things I noticed I I skipped over this when when I went out in the field and I had I hadn't been at the site in a number of years u i I wasn't at the site since the construction started but I certainly knew the site before the construction started and and what I noticed was the the forest that remains between the HOA and the property was much different uh it was evident to me and I am a licensed Forester as well so I I know what I speak of here uh that that it was evident to me that and I believe it was superstorm Sandy caused damage to the trees there were a number of trees in that strip of forest that had fallen were broken uh so it it it wasn't the same as it was then um my my kind of guess is that they we planted them on the on on our on that side because it was facing the South so had better Sun that's just a guess on my part but certainly planting them where they're planted now given the condition of the forest they have plenty of Sun and they're fine so that's a long answer to a very short question sorry thank you now I mean you know my understanding in general General is you know the first thing you do is you put on your property just because it's more practical but wouldn't that block more light from going over to the neighboring properties the closer you put it to the property uh I mean usually the way the light would work is it would project and it would have a larger ability to spread out yeah if it's further away so the closer the obstruction would be would probably stop that lighting closer yeah I think I think the key to Landscaping of something like this this is an office building that we're we've constructed so you're not trying to screen the building but what you're trying to do in my opinion you're trying to screen the parking the vehicular traffic um so um I I think it serves a better purpose of all of that being on our our property I will tell you uh since you've talked about lighting uh there there were some lights on the back of the building that were mounted we that were flood lights and I directed my client to to take them off uh made cut off fixtures so that that was um part of when we finished construction my company does an asil survey and and there were questions raised by the township engineer tnm during that process and as part of that process they asked about these lights I researched the the approved lighting plans saw that the light fixtures in the back of the building were not matching the approved plan so those were fixed voluntarily by my client before just since you brought up lighting and my last question was I mean before you said that you actually planted them I wanted to maybe proposed if the I I don't know what the hoa's opinion is but if the issue from your client is from the applicant is um possibly you know liability or you know putting something in someone else's property uh hitting other lines would there be a possibility of having a escrow and you contribute to that escoro and have the HOA take responsibility for actually planting them but it would need some kind of a stipulation that it needs to be executed by a certain time in order for you to get your Co I think there was there's many that's certainly a mechanism for us to plant the trees on their property uh I you know never done it before but I agree with you but uh it just seems very cumbersome for something that should be a simple Landscaping buffer I'm just I'm just trying to understand why it was done that way and if we wanted to make it work that way you know there is a way to do it so I can only think that 2008 we weren't thinking that far ahead thank you so I I will admit I was a little taken back when I saw that they were can you hear me I can't hear myself so um I was a little taken back when I heard you say that they were originally supposed to be put on their property and the first thing that popped into my head was liability exactly what if something Falls what if somebody gets hurt who then is responsible for something like that if something was put up on the three Pence property maybe I'm overthinking I'm an accountant I overanalyze no it's uh you know that would be my concern so it would make more sense to me that it would have been they would have been put on your property right anyone else have any other questions comments you're good maybe I didn't hear uh at the beginning but uh did three Pence approve the trees being planted on their property Mr bordon went back in 2008 I mean there's nothing in the file that says they approve them uh what the resolution talks about actually has a statement in the actually has a statement in the resolution uh verifying that that multiple residents of three Pence appeared at the hearings and objected to the application they certainly were objecting to the application back then that's clear and I recall that very much as far as did they did they ask for the treat Tre to be there I do not recall I have to believe they did otherwise we wouldn't put them there right I've never might and I've done this unfortunately some days for 40 years um I've never planted trees on somebody else's property as part of an application that's I've never done that before so the fact that they were done in this case without me remembering the details tells me they had to want them there but there was no mechanism put in place yeah just to to allow us to plant them yeah and we can't have that as a condition that somebody's going to do something on someone else's property exactly so it's logical to assume that at that time there were people um from 10 um Prince to uh gosh thank you I was like that doesn't sound right but I know what I mean um present and that they had indicated that they wanted that but it was not memorialized their participation they're in and they're uh saying that was not part of the resolution it's not part of the record that's here and it's not a proper condition for someone to do something on someone else's property so there's no paper trail for for the trees certainly I have not seen any and it sounds like Mr bordon has not as well no no never have I'm sorry any other questions or comments Mr feffer would you like to say would you like to say something before I open it to the public uh I agree with everything Mr bordon says uh addition I just wanted to point out that there would be even after they got the co there would be a maintenance Bond and which would then cause another issue should that should those trees die later on the other property we don't have control over it and it just causes an ongoing issue um so read from everything uh Mr Bourne indicated and I Mr Peters Mr RAR comments or concerns before I open it to the public it would just be my opinion that this would be not a typical situation to uh plant on an adjacent property all right we're going to open this to the public anyone wishing to come forward and comment on what you've heard this evening please do so at this time good evening everyone Bonnie right I am an attorney in hand right excuse me one second sorry could you spell your last name yes w r i ghtk you're welcome again I'm an attorney at hanin nean and WR and Freehold I represent various homeowners in three Pence um I recognize that it is an unusual condition of approval and I appreciate that the board recognizes that there are liability issues and things that come from this however there are various concerns of the homeowners specifically the ones that above this property and that map doesn't accurately deflect actually how many units actually AB this project I do have some photographs that I would like to share um that show exactly how close this project is and what um was testified to in terms of what Woods exist that suest that there is some actual still existing buffer between this project and the three Pence which is no I've also got some photographs that will depict the plantings that the applicant has made because they purchased them and they were going to go bad and I understand all of that but they also provide absolutely no buffer at all so again I appreciate the logistics but I'd like the board to take a look at these photographs my client Miss Anderson is here to testify that she took these photographs and she took them days ago um I'd also like to point out that in my opinion and again recognizing the unusual nature of this particular application and the Landscaping plan and providing that Landscaping is put on other people's property I question the board's authority to approve this as an administrative decision in my opinion it requires an amended site plan application with notice to all Property Owners so that everyone can show up and express their opinion on this so I would like to call up Miss Anderson just to testify to the photographs which I'm going to give to Mr feffer because of course he needs to see them first let me know when you had an opportunity to look uh if you just bring up the person who took the pictures qualifi just confirm that they're the one that took the pictures the date they took the pictures and that they were not edited in any way and with that I would have assuming they testify to that I have no objection that yes we can't I'm sorry okay yes if you un qualified before they were submitted thank you uh do you swear the testimony information and comments you're about to present for the board represent the truth the whole truth and nothing met the truth I do and would you please state your name and address Meg Anderson m g should I at least give these to the secretary she can mark them as I go through them and then I'll pass them out to the board yes you only have one copy I have 11 copies but he would like me to have her authenticate them before I pass them it's G to get a little bit confusing in terms Mr R are you uh agreeable to have it marked at the time yes yes that was what what we generally done with obors photos we we go 01 02 03 with today's date so if you want to go through each one I can mark them on my set yeah to Mark this1 Miss Anderson I'd like you to take a look at this Photograph that I have I'm sorry if you could just speak into the microphone you can tell the Acoustics sing here so if you could just if you have to yell yell he yourself talk not talk I can always hear myself Miss Anderson I am asking you to take a look at what I have marked 01 do you recognize this photog yes I took it do you recall when you took this Photograph many days ago there's snow on the ground can you give me an approximation was it 10 days 30 days maybe 10 days ago I would have to check my phone okay and where are you when you're taking this Photograph I'm standing to the left of my fence okay and I see that there seems to be some type of measuring tape in this Photograph that's correct and what exactly are you measuring in this Photograph so I measured to my back of my fence to one of the bushes that they planted and it was under 100 feet and when you say they you're referring to the applicant that's correct okay so now I'm going to show you what I have marked as 02 do you recognize this Photograph yes did you take it yes you call when you took it probably around the same time okay and exactly what is depicted in this Photograph this is the buffer of woods that they're referring to I'm going to show you what I have marked 03 you recognize this Photograph yes did you take it I did where were you when you took it right next to my fence and exactly what is depicted in this Photograph this is just showing that there's zero buffer and buffer that's there are all dead trees now I'm showing you what is marked as04 or 04 forgive me did you take this Photograph I did when did you take this Photograph either yesterday or the day before I was when I was walking my dog and what is depicted in this Photograph this is another photograph of the woods um showing dead trees and there small bushes that they planted but there's no bu that's okay I'll pick it up thank you I am showing you what I have marked as 05 do you recognize this thank you so much yes what is it this is again the buffer of woods that are supposed to give us some privacy and there's none and when did you take this Photograph just the other day when I was walking my dog okay all right that's everything may I these with can I can I just ask one question yes where were the how were these pictures taken were they taken with your phone with my phone okay so because you gave an approximate date the phone would have a date stamp of when you took it I do think it's important to know the date that they were taken relative to to when they were planted uh do you have your phone with you that you're able to check and see what day date stamp they were at if you can again with and with that I have no objection to they could submit they could hand out the pictures I do think the date is important um to when they were taken thank you Mr faer all right what in in the interest of time don't we go ahead and yes they could circulate I'm just asking if that could also be the photographs distributed to the board meanwhile the photo will be located and the date put on the record what what dat did you take that photograph and that would be the one you're speaking to now would be what I have marked as hold on got to go backwards Z uh 03 was taken at 12:33 p.m on Monday and yes that's correct o 04 February 3rd Monday Monday February 3rd while she's searching for the date you can hand out the uh photographs the parking lot one was taken yesterday at 1:2 p.m. which is it looks like 05 the all the photos with the measuring tape was taking Saturday at 1:42 p.m. this past Saturday been February 1 February thank you I saw the email rejected getting the email yeah but she didn't say that I I have a question with the attorney yes so you mentioned that you represent three of the homeowners several of the homeowners three are here this even yes okay so my question is I'm not familiar with how this community is set up is there not an actual board and isn't all of this property that we're speaking of common which would fall under the board not an individual homeowner well that's actually a very good question you you you make you ask so if you refer if you flip a few through pages to what is exhibit D on the document that I provided you beyond the photographs you you will see what is the list of neighboring Property Owners solicited by the applicant when they first made this application and what you will see is that it is individual Property Owners not three Pence you see that yes exhibit D on the packet that I gave you is a list of the property owners I gave my packet away so I think I have a spare would you like it right no I I got it so I I these are the list of property owners that when the applicant made a request for all homeowners within 200 feet of the property of the subject property that this was what was provided to them why wasn't it not provided to the entire board like isn't there a board so if I can just object to that statement and and bunnie if you can if you look at I think it's the first block and lot that's on the on your exhibit the which was the certified list that when my office requested it was received the first one is block 561 L 59 three pens condominium uh one Willow Pond Drive Howell uh and if I had a guess if I went to my office and went into storage and got the certified I could almost guarantee you because I see these check marks I'm assuming you got this from the board if you put an Opa request in I'm assuming that they went through each of the CER certified and checked it off so the association was notified they were on the certified list so I just want to make sure clarify the record is clear that yes them and then along with everyone else that's within 200 feet um that's who got the list and the applicant would have been required as is the same law today you have to rely upon the certified list that comes from the township I'm not disputing that and not suggesting they did not do what they're supposed to do and I agree that the association was served the per the question was wouldn't they be the ones that would have the right to respond but you will see the majority of the people that are on this list are specific and individual residents of the Condominium Association right on Shilling way and Colonial Court what is noticeably absent is Forge Court which is where my client Miss Anderson resides Which is less than 100 feet from this property and in fact if you see the brand now there's three buildings in a row that's Shilling and then the one over to the left that's Forge Court that's where Miss Anderson resides the one closest to the bottom so when she looks at her back door what she sees is that building so let's return to the photographs and and and to be honest with you I'm not disputing any of that what I'm trying to uh just get to whether we not in fact you know wasting any time when all of these areas you're speaking of seem to me as a common element a homeowner doesn't have the right to regardless of what's on a common element when it's a part of Association it's an association board issue not an individual so for example an individual can't plant trees bushes anything on anything that's considered common without bard approval likes or dislikes so I'm not disputing the placement of the trees and where they happen to land where the homeowner lives but does the homeowner actually have the right here or there to even bring this application up when it's an association when there's a board involved they own their property oh so they do that's what I'm they pay taxes so you were right there's common area no understand the area that the the town home that they own and the area out back which is their little patio area they own it and they would they are entitled to notice as a matter of Law and unfortunately for reasons I don't quite understand other homeowners for instance Miss Anderson my client who's here tonight never got notice of this in initial application even though unequivocally she is less than 200 ft from the property so do do the individual ual homeowners have a right to object to an application that is within 200 feet of their property or in fact anywhere in the in the in the in the in the city in the town yes so the fact that they live in association doesn't negate their right to come to this board and speak to them about how this project is impacting them now again this project is built we're not here to object to that we're here to talk about the landscaping and the need for the buffering so did I answer your question or no yeah I'm just un like you did I'm just unsure of the way so for example I'm president of my board over in in uh cooksbridge every homeowner has a deck every homeowner has a driveway but it's still common they don't have the right to do anything that is part of a common element inside of an association so they have the right to speak if they don't like anything but it's still a board decision so that's where I just maybe you and I are miscommunicating we're not because they don't have an a right to say yes plant the trees on common area or no don't so if that's the point you're making I would agree with you okay it does not impact their right as taxpaying residents of Jackson in Township who are entitled to notice and in this case were deprived of it to object to a modification of site plan approval without the appropriate protocol being fi fil uh okay complied with okay so I'd like to go back like to continue on that um the board the the HOA still going to have the final say on on the planting or of planting or remediating the ground or whatever shouldn't they be represented at this meeting well interesting you should ask that question the president of Association is here wait hold on we're not get okay the homeowner can come up and and present their Cas as they are but the homeowner association should also be here and have the attorney uh uh present to uh help make a decision because the final decision is going to be from the homeowners association I'm not sure why the homeowner again the we're here my clients are here to object to the modification of a site plan approval not following the pro proper protocol okay so if I may I feel like we're getting a little bit far field here so this is a what came in as request for an administrative approval the request was to change the condition um or the uh to because the original plan of having the buffer planted on the property of the association was improper as far as we can prove at this time so there was a request to move that buffer simply onto the applicant's property the engineer had weighed in and found that that was not substantial that it was appropriate as an administrative approval the question is if you want to have allow it just to be moved on to the property it's going to be taken off the hoa's property off away from the resident property and onto the property of the applicant the question that is being presented is whether that then would require a an amended site plan and an opportunity for full notice and Mr Feer is correct he got a certified list he's entitled to rely on that list however there is uh testimony that's been provided that there were people within 100 feet that did not receive it and as the members of the board have said the HOA itself is not represented now they cannot be forced to be present and they do appear to have received notice um so it's not a question for Miss Wright and her clients um to produce the board or Force the board to participate the question really before the board uh the board of the HOA um the question before the board right now is really whether you want this to proceed tonight based on the request for administrative approval or and I would going to throw that back to Mr uh RAR when he's had the opportunity to hear and I'll let M Wright continue but I just wanted to sort of reoc focus and S down in my chair really low um the that's the question before the board now it was an administrative approval it had been approved that way we're now hearing that there may be intership parties that had not received notice you said the HOA uh board is not participated they do appear to have received notice from the list and we cannot compel them to come for if they do not wish to just want that's the notice from 2008 when the application went in just so I can be clear that that resolution and what was attached to to the opposition's letter I'm talking about is all notices from 2008 just want to and through the and through the chair excuse me through the chair um because the list is being discussed we call that 06 it's just it's part of Miss Wright's letter so if you've already marked their letter they only marked my photographs Adam not that yeah the the letter I don't think is permissible just the attentions I'd like to go back to the photographs and thank you quick question to our attorney um for an administrative approval notice is not given is that's correct right and I just asked Mr bordon he indicated he did send copy of when I met in November I met with uh Stacy who's a uh representative of the board with the management company and I've been in constant contact with her I had notified her of this hearing via email so I've been in constant communication with the uh board management company so let me just be clear you said you spoke with Stacy at the management company is that the homeowners association or the management company she represents the homeowners association that's okay when I when I asked for a meeting with the homeowners on the site she is the one that attended I I don't pretend to know their management structure I asked for the home owners to meet me she met me the chair yes just for the attorney I just think I'm missing something do in your opinion does this require an amended site plan and require notice or does it not and we're debating whether it they should have noticed they shouldn't have noticed right and and I and I the the application when it came was appropriate however at this point I think that given the notice issues and the um need to make sure that because it's not just at this point a question of moving what was approved onto the site there certainly is a uh parties that are expressing concerns with that I don't know that it can be done as administrative approval U Mr R as your uh assessment changed given that it's appropriate for an administrative approval given the information that we've receiv what propos microphone please the proposed changes to the from the original plan uh are typically handled by administrative approval for moving the Landscaping so that was my original assessment and I I would defer to the board members if they'd like to discuss and vote on it if I can so we have no objection to notifying getting obtaining a new certified list uh for everybody within 200 feet and sending it out for the same administrative approval I I do not believe that an amended site plan is required uh as you heard testimony from Mr bordon that the site is is fully developed uh they are close to obtaining the co the building there's no question as to the location of the building or changing of the building there's no there's no question as to the roadways the parking area all of that is staying the only question is is now the location of the trees uh which when I heard some of the testimony um minute or comments from from the obors they're saying that you know it's not enough uh buffering the buffering isn't changing we used the same type of trees it's just a matter that we planted it on our site vers planting it on the association site which as all the comments I heard previously you know are there are concerns but again we have no problem tbling this getting the list setting the notices out and seeing what comes out but I still believe it should be done via administrative and and no amended site plan should be required I would like to be heard before I'd like to be heard if I may before the board makes a decision on this absolutely on okay fair enough thank you not to put you on the spot because I'm sure the ansers you don't know because this goes back how many years I'm just a little confused the list I understand it's from 2008 but how was this not picked up then that they didn't notify everybody well again the applicant is relying on the the township to give them the list that the township produces and this came from the clerk's office um there would had been no reason to double check what the clerk's office offered so the applicant relies on the app the list that's furnished to them I'm I'm just curious as well like will the new list be different than this list and are there more are there more uh residents that are saying that they also weren't on this list or is it just miss Anderson if I may to answer that specific question I'm going to ask you to flip to what is Exhibit C on the package I gave you which is basically like an aerial you know informal map and we'll mark it where are we 0 07 and I have you'll see the Red Dot which is where Miss Anderson's property is and again the photographs which I'd like to go back to because you guys didn't have them when we were talking about them is less than 100 feet so again she's in that sole Brown building look at Brown condominium looking at the building and so you can see where I've circled this there there are other buildings on Forge Court there are other buildings on Colonial Court there are certainly other properties that should have been noticed and and I just want to be clear in no way shape or form are we insinuating that the applicant did anything wrong in this regard but absolutely how block 74 which is the applicant's property all the way to the left did not include these Property Owners Property Owners not just the associ iation on their notice is very problematic because you did and I'm sure none of you were here then maybe some of you but in the original application there were homeowners that showed up complaining and objecting to this application there would have been more had proper notice you you don't I you don't know that that's the case again the associ we've already heard testimony from Mr bordon the association was noticed uh additionally there were three meetings apparently and there were multiple residents from the community that came out so to say that nobody knew about it I'm sorry you can't say there would been more people or less people I didn't say that nobody knew about it we're not we're not we're not revisit the propriety of the approval from 2008 and I'm not attempting to do that and I also if we're going to end up doing this again I I appreciate you and we'll certainly have you be heard on the issue of whether the proposal made by Mr Feer and I will then advise the board but I'd like to give you the opportunity to be heard first right now the only question that I'd like to see addressed is whether it's appropriate to have this uh relisted Ren noticed sorry a noticed administrative approval Mr Feer will get a not a list to request it would go to the um the tax office we should that will be the list presumably will be full as in 2025 but Mr F will be able to rely on whatever that list is and then come back again for the administrative approval or is right I know that you have suggested that it needs to be an amended site plan I'd like to stick on that issue because if it's going to come back and there's going to be testimony before the board one way or another at another hearing I would rather limit I have that hearing at that time I'm sorry have that testimony at that time rather than have it before twice in peace I would like to revisit the photographs now that you all have them because quite frankly while I do not think this is the appropriate process to hear this application my client's main concern is the fact Mr bordon previously testified about the lighting and I appreciate that testimony but the fact of the matter is it was my client calling and going to the township daily about the football lights shining through her bedroom door we're not here not here for lighting don't I understand the things we say do you want to be heard on the issue of whether there needs to be an amended site plan or do you want the board to move directly um to consider the up the request made by Mr feffer to allow this to be a noticed administrative review at a later dat I would like to at least review the photographs and then I will speak on that issue okay I'm asking you to speak on that issue again our objective is not to necessarily inconvenience the applicant so I feel as though if you would let me go to the photographs perhaps I could get to that without the inconvenience that this would derive I that was a very tempting offer so would if you're not inclined to let me do that absolutely it is my opinion that they have to file for an amended site plan the landscape plan was part of the approval in 2008 was corporate incorporated into the resolution of approval and as such if they want to amend that approval they need to seek amended site plan with notice to all property owners that is my position Vice chair that's a great point I did submit this in advance and I was advised this wouldn't be circulated to do to you I also was not advised to submit these by a methodology that they could go back on the big screen because I certainly would have complied with that M right I'm confused because you suggested that you wanted to spare uh the uh didn't want to inconvenience the applicant and I don't but you also do want them to do an amended site plan well no you forced me to take that position when I asked you to permit me to go back to the photograph came across I said it was a tempting offer if you have a way to proceed now and take us through the photographs that could resolve this matter without the necessity of return I think the board would want to hear that if that is not the case then I think they would want to make a decision on how this matter will proceed in return is it possible understood and the reason I want to go to the photographs do I have an absolute resolution no I want the board to see it and the applicant to understand our position and perhaps we can come up with a a resolution I want the board to understand what my client's concern is they the bo the applicant has asked you to remove the plantings on another property and again I fully understand that issue I get it they have planted what they were at least what their testimony is is that they have planted the plantings that that were approved on the initial resolution at the original application on their property but if you look at the photographs those plantings are not sufficient that that picture depicts plant plant plant plant plant plant plant plant plant that would suggest real buffer but if you look at P the picture um noted as 04 let me just make sure I've got the right one yes I actually if you just look and take a look at 03 this is what my client Miss Anderson sees when she looks out her back window which she did testify to that so I'm not speaking for her so it's pretty large when you go to 04 if you look through as I think Mr bordon testified the what what used to be actual Woods is now decimated I'm sorry yes cuz you weren't there so if you go to the first photograph that's 01 you can mark them just so you can follow along which has the tape measure okay 02 which again is a bunch of leaves tape measure 03 little bit of fence big building 04 more Woods if that's what you want to call them and in the background tiny little tree so this Miss cypriani is why I wanted to talk about this because these are the plant ings as my client testified she took these photographs a day or two ago this is what has been planted and if you see all the way to the right there's another one of these plants this is never going to be sufficient buffering for this residential community so again unfortunately do I have the resolution as I stand here now no do we want to inconvenience the applicant no but if the only way that perhaps my client clients and other residents of this community can get sufficient distraction from this is to force a an amended site plan well then that's what I'm requesting you do but that's not really the objective that's not why I'm here I'm here to let you see what it is that they're dealing with again look at05 look at the distance between the plantings that allegedly are taking the place of the planting approved on the Landscaping plan approved with the site plan they are far and they are tiny it's not enough so I'm asking is there some resolution that can be made to make this less imposing on the residents and if there isn't and if the applicant isn't willing to make some concession then yes we're going to have to go back through this all over again with proper notice to all of the residents who can express their position on this comp what was approved my question the discussion around conbody those points I guess question is there concern around noce I understand well I would agree with you except again I was specifically asked if there is a resolution that can be reached without requiring that and that's what I'm speaking to right now I'd like to go back to the approved plan do you have that on your your your thing no I'm not I would like to see the approved plan do I what I know that on the approved plan looks sufficient and that is not what they're living through now exactly so I think what Miss Wright is trying to say is if they could come to some resolution about the plantings and what is there and the buffer then I think and you can correct me if I'm wrong what she's saying is we can put the issue of notice to the side and come to some resolution to make the residents as well as Mr feffer and his client happy am I understanding you properly I miss parns am not suggesting that what was approved wasn't sufficient in fact I think it was sufficient but they don't want to do it for potentially reasons that I understand they are now trying to modify that approval and that modification will result in real inconvenience to the residents of three Pence that's not what I'm suggesting what I'm suggesting I believe and that's why I'm asking that for that the approved plan to go up on the board it was probably sufficient but what it doesn't appear is to match the photog Gat Gra s I'm showing you because they have testified that the very plantings they were going to put on three Pence they have now put on the subject property and I'm showing you what that looks like and it is not sufficient so am I may be questioning that the number of trees and the type of trees that were supposed to be put up originally were not installed maybe I know this is what they look at when they look out their back porch or their bedroom window m chair yes Mr pres yeah I I I think I think I'm understanding what you're saying and I'd have to throw a question to Mr Bon um looking at the drawing and look at the pretty green trees different shades and stuff then you look at the picture they don't match at all like what was approved to me just doesn't look like it was ever put in what they died in between or something so what there this picture they're showing us then it's not complete then what we're talking about here are proposed plans no you said that no your testimony I'm sorry forgive me clar your his testimony Mr uh Feer just so I can get this on the record so we're all clear his testimony was that they were already installed because they were going to die because they were purchased which we can all appreciate they installed or were they not no they were Mr bordon the the plantings that were approved back in 2008 as part of that approval first are these the same species of plants sizes that were that were installed on the applicant site the the proposed planning plan that this board is considering is the same species and size as the one from 2008 that's correct that's the same spacing and were they planted I do not know but correct have the answer maybe I got it wrong you guys know I take notes so maybe I wasn't paying attention was it not stated that they were planted yes yes I I just spoke representative of the applicant they've confirmed the same trees that were ordered were planted just on our side as opposed to planting it on their side they were planted okay so then um please if I if I'm speaking out of turn please correct me then I would have to agree based on the proposed plan that was to be put on their property to what you've done on your property does not match respectfully the picture if we go to I think it was a sorry A3 so again the picture is a picture it's not trees you have to go to the the specifications that were approved in the Landscaping plan and our representation and our testimony is exactly that was what was approved in 2008 was planted just not on their site and on our site they may not be happy with the what what it is but that's what was approved we're not looking to change meaning if the board says no you got to goe back back and do it and move the trees they're going to end up being on their site it's not going to be more trees it's not going to be different height trees it's the same trees that were approved the same Landscaping plan trees would you help me out here please would you agree with me though that what is portrayed on this plan is not what's in these pictures you don't have Heights and and descriptions I'm not talking about I'm just talking about number I'm not forget Heights I haven't even gotten there let's talk about number of this is a depiction I can't tell you Mr I I think I'm going where you're going tooe I I look at these pictures they look nice and pretty and Ian puts them real CL Ian puts them real close together there too many there's too many people the afcan shows all the Shrubbery close together so forth looks real pretty and solid but yet when you look at the picture look how many feet apart they are they are not solid I understand there's nothing there there also if I had a guess if I had asked Mr bordon they probably depicted as fully grown blown they were just installed if if we go back but if we go back if we go back if if we go back to the plans and what their heights are and what the the amount of you the testimony is you're going to find the same exact numbers that was approved in 2008 I don't know how wide these bushes grow but I can't even imagine them growing wide enough to fill in that Gap no way so so just to go to the next step as a practical matter should this go forward and we say you know fine we'll pick them up and move them it's the same plan things it's just going to be on their side of the and we're going to be we have the same then issue regarding can we do it how we do it but that's that's a separate issue well I'm not we're not here saying we're gonna if we go on their side now we're going to put extra 100 trees shair hold on I'm sorry Mr h i could ask to speak forgive me go ahead so microphone the um the drawings that you guys have supplied could we go back to to um the original plantings is that A1 A2 okay so this is what you guys said you were going to do correct back in the day back in 2008 Yes okay so we have 17 years later okay we have photographs that you know you would think that you guys have those lined up that you wouldn't even be able to see through them so 17 years later you would think that these trees would mature and everything would be nice right they were they were planted never plant they were planted a couple weeks ago yes they were just planted Madam chair so these were never planted correct I thought you guys planted them on their property no they never planted them on their property no the building was just constructed that was only the proposal correct the approval was in 2008 I got you okay it did not start until I misunderstood okay apologies right apologies got it Madam CH so oh wait I'm sorry jay hold on one moment Mr hman thank you um if you look at the two plans the plantings of the original one has 100 green green plantings on there and the new one has 69 I just counted them so that's a very large discrepancy between your original and what you have now now what we didn't address is the maturity of these Greenery um if that is compatible or if it's you know the same so if you can you know elaborate on that point I appreciate it that was that okay yeah that's question you because that's fine we we put the P we move the trees in the approved location to the proposed location at the same speci es the same height and the same spacing the trees are 5 to 6 feet high evergreen trees planted approximately 10 to 12 ft apart all we did was move them from one location on the plane to the other the reason there's fewer trees is the distance is shorter because rather than work around the outside of the Ark now we're working around the inside of the Ark the closer to the building you get the Lesser distance to cover the same cover okay so that so that so that you're not so the trees are planted at 10 to 12 feet apart is was that the original proposal because it's definitely not the same A3 A3 which is the next one Anthony proposes the trees at the same spacing the same that was why my testimony is it's the same buffer it's the same spacing as the uh as the approved trees okay now also the difference between the two plans I see is you have on the original plan it was every other one is a different speci and on this one you're having different sections that that's a change in landscape design that's occurred in the last 15 years uh back then we used to like stagger trees a lot now we cluster similar species together that's just the difference I could I could spread out the species if you want but they're the same species they're the same size they're the same spacing not a problem we just shouldn't be saying that we're proposing the exact same thing we need to be clear for the record that this is we are changing that plan we are putting in fewer trees there are fewer trees but it is properly spaced so the same spacing there are fewer trees cuz the distance is less thank you Qui so we know what the applicant microphone please what does the okay so we know what the applicant is proposing what does the opposition want them to do and let's see if we could come to an agreement before they answer that question Dr hin I I need to go back to picture number four and to talk Mr bordon a little more Oh I thought Mr feffer had I thought Mr feffer yes four so you said that they're 10 feet apart I don't see the trees from my map planted in this picture these are the trees that were planted the the original proposed Landscaping on the property had more scattered smaller trees so I don't I don't see the this is the very back of the parking lot this is not behind the building my client testified that this was taken a day or two ago I'm not question that number four according to the uh resident uh was taken midday on Tuesday yesterday I I'm not questioning that I'm just saying that I understand give if you look at our plan I can't give a minute to ask my question thank you you said that they were approximately 10 feet apart I'm not going to discuss how they were just planted I can't discuss hype because they haven't had a chance to grow my concern here is as a homeowner and a resident how do you ever think this is going to be a sufficient buffer I can't I'm sorry I can't consider that a sufficient buffer you're assuming that I believe this is my plan I don't believe this is my plan Madam chair yes what I see here is inconsistent with that plan that we've presented if you look here this picture is in this corner right here look at those trees look at those trees those are those circles those green circles and darker circles are 10 ft apart I don't see that here so that tells me without I haven't been to the site so well that answers my next question that answers my next question I am trying to get a proposed plan approved that is this plan I'm not here to testify that this was planted I have no idea if this was planted but Mr bordon you said that they were already planted so I need to know before this board not just myself before this board can decide if we're going to move forward we if they're already planted and you're saying you're not planting anymore yes how can you expect us to vote on something that doesn't match your plan I've seen this part of the site you weren't at the site so you don't know if it was planned I have seen this part of the site I've not seen the back of the parking lot excuse me one second right I'm sorry Mr Ro if I just sorry I just want wanted to point out typical procedure would be for the board to approve a proposed plan and then once the construction's completed the township engineer is responsible for inspecting the improvements to make sure that what was construction constructed is in accordance with the plan I would advise the board to focus on what is proposed on the plan not and less on what is shown in the pictures because we that was going to be my next question what we what we've indic is while we've planted them everything that came if the board does approve it when they come out for inspection if this is not consistent with what was approved we won't get ourco and they will have to add the additional trees we're still here it just happened to have been that the trees were ordered and when they got they had a they had a a practical issue with regard to planting the trees on the other property so they planted them on our property if the board says yes this makes sense what has Ian has proposed is what's going if that's what's approved your your the township Engineers will be inspecting that if a tree is missing two trees 10 50 trees are missing they're going to come we're here for the main issue it's a it's it's an additional item we've already planted trees okay that's on us but if the board approves it we're asking to move the location from their site to our site that's the main thing we're asking or the only thing that we're asking chairman chairperson if I may just ask Mr bordon one question he testified earlier that he had not really gotten a resolution in terms of the position of the association but I would like to ask him if he received the letter from the association attorney dated January 10th 20125 making their position perfectly clear again I can't present testimony on that because I don't represent the board I assume the attorney would be here for the association so I didn't realize that I was going to interpret the association attorney's letter so it's okay toes please allow me to read it I haven't read it honestly all we don't we don't have that letter if I may Pro I mean I wasn't I don't know how I got it I'm not submitting as an ex just for a minute I I feel like the board I'm being sandbagged here and I you know I'm not copied I'm not anything the letter to you thank you m it is as far as the where the what the board has to decide right now we've heard you know all things all over the place one thing is seems to be clear is that we're not prepared to make the final determination tonight so there's been a question about whether it's it should be an administrative approval and they should come back for the administrative approval after additional notice or whether it is lead for amended cyle my uh the board should be aware that for an administrative approval that a change in location of facilities or Improvement may be approved administratively by the board upon Petition of the applicant or discretion of the township engineer unless that change of location impacts the subject matter of a public hearing or stantially changes location of a facility or building beyond the content of said original approval so I think you could based on that proceed with either an administrative approval give that an opportunity or just ask for an amended site plan my suggestion or question is is there anyone on the board that at this time wants to make a motion either to require the um administrative approval to return with full notice as was originally uh requested by Mr faer that'll give the opportunity for the board and its attorney if it wants to be heard because Mr Gordon is not the only one that does not have this letter so the board this board had indicated a desire to hear from The Other Board apparently the statement has been made that we're unaware of so either way on the notice issue um I think that would appropriate for you to proceed with the administrative approval based on the representations that have been made if that heightened notice or the additional notice was provided I don't know if anyone in the board wants to make a motion to that effect I'll make that motion I second that motion especially with the notice that's like has to be done this time had the motion include what you just said we have a motion on a second just could you just clarify what that motion exactly is so sorry um the motion is to proceed with a review of the request for administrative approval for the change in location of uh the trees based on full notice um 200 foot notice to be provided by the applicant thank you so we have a motion and a second roll call please yes yes Dr yes yes M cares m r yes Mr such yes and M Bradley yes may I Mr hoot to accommodate Mr hudak's request in anticipation of that hearing how is it that I submit things to you so that they can show up there you thank you so much thank you this is my card it has my email address on it if thank you if I could just saw it on there and I what it happened if I could just ask is there a date I could have so I could do the notices Mr Papo if I may on that only because I have to reach out to the assessor or The Collector and find out why the appropriate owners are not get which I will do immediately so we're clear they need to correct their list it is wrong the list is the list is different I don't think it's going to be tomorrow the the list is different from 2008 we concede that there have been owners who have bought and sold we are going to tomorrow my office will request the list from Jackson Township from the tax assessor that has nothing to do with the date of the Mr Papo can you have him stop speaking we can't hear I can't hear I'll speak for myself Forge Court was there in 2008 what is the next date well looking at the agenda which I believe um Madam chair has a copy of as well me March 19th has two applications we can go out to April 2nd we can go April 16th my guess is that a date in April will provide ample opportunity for absolutely do whatever you need April 2 please we have the April 2 meeting April 2 Jeff yes yes thank you everyone thank you motion move it need a motion to move it to that thing we need a motion to move it to that thing can't even hear myself we're going to take a 10minute break we'll return at 8 well 8:45 e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e to order just a few housekeeping things before before we begin please speak into the microphone it's very difficult to hear I couldn't even hear myself so I don't know what's going on in here tonight so please speak clearly into the microphone and for the record as you can see Mr Hudak is no longer here he had to recuse himself due to a conflict on the application we do have seven you ready so we're going to move on to applicant number two cardinali and Jackson Crossing number two Adventure Crossing preliminary and final site plan and this evening we will be having uh I have several witnesses for you but what I've asked Mr bordon our planner um to do once he gets sworn in is to give you give really everybody just the general um approval what happens because there are this project is set to be done in stages and got approvals based upon different phases um tonight we're only here for fa to amend phases three and four um but I do think it's important for the board and and I'll just tell you because there's a lot of noise and comments that have been made about the overall project and's a lot of misinformation that's that's being spread around as to what's happening what's as to what was approved what is looking to be amended and what will be approved uh hopefully um with this amendment but I do think it's important for the board because like I said even the board members that were here it it it's not a small application it's large and there's a lot of moving parts to it um additionally be before we get into that testimony I just want to make sure as a technical matter um that the application has been deemed complete it has noticed and I'm just asking the board if they can just confirm that there are no no issues or concerns with regard to the time of the application I know there was some conversation regarding another ordinance um but that does not apply to this I just ask that the board uh acknowledge that Mr peer I believe that uh is this on that yes thank you um that uh Mr alier and uh the applicant themselves had received correspondence on January 7th 2025 from the then board attorney uh on that issue and stating that in that opinion that the time of application rule um would prohibit consideration of an ordinance adopted after this application was deemed complete which I believe was December 11 thank you I just asked that that letter uh be made part of the record um for the file with that it's it's it's specific to to the site that request is proper thank you um with that as I indicated if I can't have Mr bordon sworn in he'll be giving testimony as a planner uh only um we do have several other Witnesses but we'll start with Mr bordon and I'm going to ask him once he gets sworn in and and he's accepted as an expert uh to first start with just the overall landscape of the of the origin original approval and then get into the what we hear for this evening Mr Wen would you uh stand and raise your hand please do you swear the testimony information uh and comments you were about to present to the board represent the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do could you please say your name and your put your credentials once more certainly Ian bordon president profession professional Design Services and lwood New Jersey Professional planner licensed in the state of New Jersey I've been doing this for 40 years and testified in front of this many other boards for many years Mr bord and this board accepts your credentials thank you thank thank you okay so good evening again so I'm going to provide first uh the background of the project the history of the project then I will get into the phase three and four site plans that are in front of the board go through the zoning of that how we fit into the zoning ordinance and then review some site design information and then you'll be done with me uh but got quite a bit to talk about on the history this is a project that's been in the works and has been approved and built in in some phases for the last eight years so at the very least I will be very boring I apologize for that in advance thank youna who who needs friends uh we have a number of exhibits uh we have uh a through eight I believe but A1 and A2 were the application uh is A1 and then the uh the Murphy letter is previously discussed is A2 so to start with uh cardinell Jackson Crossing Associates to have been working to develop the Adventure Crossing project since 2017 I have been working since since it began in 2017 but some of the history is going to predate that because I have personally been working on the properties U since 2006 this this site this Adventure Crossing site was owned by three different Property Owners um and as you'll see in my story Mr cardinali is the one who had the vision to put these together to form the project as we know so for background we start with exhibit A3 that's on the on the board thank you Anthony the the property and I'm talking about the totality of Adventure Crossing now I've been to talk about the total Adventure Crossing project then we'll we'll narrow down into phase three and four uh the properties in A3 uh this is an aerial exhibit that's dated 2017 so we purposely presented this exhibit to show what the property was before the project uh began and uh the property is highlighted in yellow the road that goes left to right on top of the page is Mammoth Road Ocean County Route 537 on the left that clearing the you see there is the is the parking lot for Hurricane Harbor obviously part of Six Flags Great Adventure and to the right you have Route 195 interchange with Mammoth Road and Anderson Road along the uh the right which is a Township Road this property was owned Highway commercial uh just to briefly talk about a little bit of the zoning and master plan as it existed and frankly still exists to this day uh which is what formed this e effort to consolidate these parcels and create this this project all of these properties which are lots 1 through six 19 and 20 were zoned Highway commercial at the time and they still are they totally comp contain uh 2886.363636 is the fact that the 2009 master plan in particular uh created the desire for economic development opportunities in in Jackson it emphasized commercial and mixed use development and U important is that in particular in describing the highway commercial District objectives it was intended provide for a diversity of commercial activities along major County Thor Affairs um and in fact the master plan recognized this particular area between Six Flags and 195 as being intended to be a commercial destination so something more than just trip centers and and gas stations but but they even back in 2009 they identified these properties and that was long before Mr cardali was in the picture uh but but they identified this as a as a destination pre previous to 2017 before I knew before I worked with Mr cardinali I represented the landowner in particular of what is now phase three and four which is lot one which I'm pointing at that's these fields with some commercial in the front and uh we I assisted the then land owner Mr Vin Mr and Mrs vinara to develop some environmental permits for Culver Crossings and there's a stream that that cuts through the property and so that that's where my work on the property began but the U but the Cardinale and the Adventure Crossing project starts with exhibit 832 Anthony if you could turn the page please and what we have here is on the same aerial that I just presented you're going to see a sequence of of plan black and white site plan overlays to show the the evolution of this project so the Adventure Crossing project started with this is known as lot two this was known as the Scott property it was owned by estate of the Scott family and um that's where Mr cardinali acquired that that property and we did a variance uh I'm sorry we did a site plan that was approved by this board uh the zoning board for a commercial recreational uh site plan which included an airome which is currently existing today the athletic fields in the back as well as other uses um that have not been built they've changed since then and um the reason the zoning board reviewed that project it was all the uses were were were permitted there was however a D5 height variance for the airome so for that reason uh the zoning board had jurisdiction over the project and frankly that is the reason that the zoning board continues to have jurisdiction over the project that we're hearing tonight phase three and four is a completely conforming project I'll get to that in a bit but but the reason we're here is because at the very Genesis of the project with the airome and the height variants the zoning board has subsequently U required retain jurisdiction over all aspects of the project in in doing phase one what we or the first uh development of it's obvious when you look at this that there's other properties along Mammoth Road that were not included in the project um as well as the surrounding uh to the left and to the right so Mr cardinali was actually encouraged uh to try to accumulate these properties as part of the destination that that 2009 master plan envisioned and the properties to the right which are lots 3 4 5 6 19 and 20 were owned by Six Flags so we had two different Property Owners besides the Scot that he owned you had Six Flags and you had the vinigar family um interestingly completely Polar Opposites lifelong residents of Jackson Farmers and one of the bigger corporations in the country but uh it shows the this is not in my notes but it shows how this town should be proud of what Mr cardali did I don't know anybody else who could put together a team or or put these same people in a room together and come out with what we've what we've done but anyway what we've done is we were encouraged to accumulate them so so Mr cardinali did so please turn the page Anthony now we have exhibit a3-c3 Acres uh he had and uh this was a uh um this was submitted as a general development plan I think it's important I don't know that this board has seen a general development plan they're unusual at a zoning board the planning board sees them more frequently but just just to for the board members to understand and should you not that um for the last nearly 40 years uh builders in the state of New Jersey under the municipal L use law have the right to seek a GDP General development plan approval for development they're limited to SES of over a 100 acres and the GDP is basically a conceptual a set of conceptual plans developed under a s a strict series of rules and regulations on what those plans are required to comprise uh and and they're intended to be submitted to the board uh prior to the site plan in other words it's it's it's a master plan of the property right the town does the master plan to the entire municipality and a GDP is a master plan for development of a property of more than 100 acres uh what a GDP does is it protects the zoning of the property for up to 20 years uh as well as create the footprint for what the future development will be so that the pite plans can be developed with the knowledge and understanding of the regulatory Partners In this case uh being the zoning board the GDP as you see on the board was approved in 2019 under resolution 2019-16 and 24 those two resolutions the GDP included the same uses that we had on lock two which is in the middle here it's kind of but it also included 502 residential apartments with 58 affordable units as well as commercial uses along Mammoth Road including fast food and convenience store U as well as Top Golf and other uh commercial as well as apartments on the uh on the Eastern side R my thing again um towards Anderson Road a bump in the road occurred at this point because the neighbors along Anderson appealed the GDP uh so as a result of that appeal settlement discussions were held and a settlement was agreement was reached with the neighboring Property Owners uh they and the settlement uh required us to remove the GDP from Lots 561 19 and 20 basically these properties so this leads us to exhibit A3 D4 which is an amended GDP that was uh approved by the Zoning Board in 2020 so a year later under 2020-9 resolution and as you can tell these are lots on the right that they're back in the woods or Lots 56 19 and 20 so those lots were removed from the general development plan and the residential units that were approved that were proposed in the back were moved over here so this GDP Al although on the less the track remained 286 Acres but the GDP included to 500 residential units on on lot on lot one U as well as the same commercial pads along U along Mammoth Road it was at this point in time that that the the ordinance was modified uh the recall this was the highway commercial Zone uh this whole property and a a a new overlay Zone was developed which is the zone that we're Guided by today for this application which is the highway commercial mix use Zone that that ordinance was ordinance number 24457 was adopted by the township committee on February 11th 2020 the overlay Zone includes those areas generally located on the south side of Route 3 537 between 195 and Six Flags um so uh and again that's ordinance we got we we'll get back to that when we get uh down to the site planning for for phase three and four um at that point in time L 5 six 19 and 20 were not in the GDP but remained in the contract so they they remained part of the tract so the question was what to do with those properties so uh please Anthony go to a 3-5 so a site plan was prepared the highway commercial mixed use Zone introduced the number of uses that were not permitted in the highway commercial Zone but are permitted in the highway commercial mixed use such as residential but it also included warehouses so the warehouse use was proposed on Lots 561 19 and 20 because those uses were permitted by the highway commercial mixed use Zone that application was submitted to the and it and it was disconnected from the GDP because of the resident settlement demands uh so that application proceeded in front of the planning board and there were two Warehouse buildings again the warehouse use was permitted there was no variances requested and uh that that project was approved and has subsequently been constructed we next in in to implement the GDP we next did some revisions to phase one if you can go to as 3-6 please Anthony so now we we build right so phase two phase two is an approved site plan uh and now we have phase one as you can see phase one expanded from the lot two to include these two lots three and four and it included the pads now we've converted the GDP to a site PL which is the intended intended procedure you start with the GDP Master planning type document you proceed to a site plan you go to Construction so we have the air doome still here the ball fields and we did the hotel we have two hotels and the uh convenience and fast food on the road so that project was approved uh in 2019 and 21 under resolution 2019-16 and 20212 and9 we had a couple of different applications to move things around andjust different uses I could spend all night going through the small details of those things in my opinion is not necessary um one of the things that was introduced at this period of time was a parking garage structure and that is notable because it was the parking garage structure that required a D1 variance it is the only D1 variance that exists on the entire property and it's simply because a parking garage parking is included in the ordinance with a parking structure is not specifically noted so it was the determination of the zoning board that that a D1 variance was required so so that was obtained uh phase one also included the medical research campus which is very near and dear to Mr Cardin Al's heart as well as a medical school uh again the hotels and the fast foods important also to understand the public benefits that this project has provided because when we started one of the one of the main constraining factors of this site that go all the way back to when I started working with the Vince Saras and and Vince agaras spoke to the Scots trying to buy that property but one of the main constraints was if you could zoom in please Anthony right here right along Mammoth Road you have Pine Drive which is in Millstone Township of course Mammoth Road is the boundary of of Ocean County I should have said that but you had this this black line here was the old Jug Handle that was a left turn Jug Handle for Pine Drive Mammoth Road is a bifurcated Road it has a center dividing Island for the last 20 years or so and that was a constraining factor on on how to get access to this property when you have this Jug Handle right in the middle of the frontage so after a lot of work and a lot of meetings and a lot of money spent honestly a new Jug Handle was developed uh with the main road system the main access extension upon Pine Drive a new signal constructed in Mammoth Road and this and this Jug Handle was actually owned by do believe it or not even though it's on a county road so it took actually going to the State House Comm mission in Trenton to get that right away vacated to allow the new Jug Handle to BU so uh that is the type of forward thinking that created this project that and the combination of properties U but but that was all done and all of that Highway work uh has has been constructed what you see in black and white here you'll see on an aerial shortly uh is has all been uh completed then we move to now we get now we get into the end of the project where we're going to be asking for site plan approval and that's exhibit 8 3-7 Anthony please so phase one at that point in time and to this date or up till today is is is relatively established and then we turned our attention to phase three and four which is the lot one Vince property so phase three was um and and there were significant challenges of planning especially planning in a marketable way for this part of the project because I probably should have colored it but but there's significant freshwat the reason this is all white here in no buildings is that's all wetlands and there's also wetlands in the back here so there's actually um and there's a stream Corridor that bifurcates the site in the Northeast Southwest Direction here so what we call phase three which is what's on the exhibit now in phase four which we'll see in a second as you can see phase four is landlocked from the highway right you can't even see it so how do you develop commercial uses or any type of use that's marketable uh back here that has been a challenge that is D not to mention the fact in the athletic fields they're so far removed from the highway how do you do that uh so so here we have what we tried to do to do that in phase three was approved in exhibit a uh 7 a37 was approved in 2021 under resolution 20218 for commercial and residential uses uh all as permitted all of the uses that I'm describing in phase three and four uh and in Phase uh one that I described in the 2021 amended approval all the uses with the exception of the parking garage were permitted under the HCM U Zone uh this was for a combination this was for mixed use with the with Department buildings with uh commercial on our first floor uh this was approved for uh 481 residential Apartments including 43 433 Market apartments and 48 affordable special needs affordable units along with uh 70,000 square feet of commercial building area in the first floor of the mixed use buildings closer to Mammoth Road and and that was approved next we turned our attention to phase four this very most difficult part of the property again being landlocked and Anthony that will be exhibit a38 and you can see the development here that we subsequently received approval uh major site plan approval was branded by the Zoning Board in in 2022 20222440843 um it was during the hearing for phase four and again all the uses in phase four were permitted uh but the it was at that point during those hearings that the zoning board asserted jurisdiction over the remaining parts of the project regardless of whether the uses are permitted or any variances are requested so again that is important to say out loud because that is why we're here for phase three and four that we're going to again talk about in a minute um so that's where we have come with the approvals uh phase three and four have have never been constructed the site work has has started the approvals were granted site work has started uh let's turn to the next exhibit Anthony please A4 and and now here we are with the current Day aerial this aerial I can't see the date with my eyes but it's it's believe it's January of this year uh so this is a site as it currently exists and here's phase one you see the airome there are fast food pads and U stores in the front you have the Taco Bell Popeye's check-in the 7-Eleven convenience store uh the building a multi-tenant building which has Starbucks and Panda Express as well as others uh we have the athletic fields in the back back and we have the warehouses in phase two all completed and you could see in phase three and four the site work that has occurred you see the disturbance and obviously we don't see is a quite a bit of or some of the infrastructure has been built some of the drainage system some of the storm water basins uh the Water and Sewer infrastructure has been completed in phase one and two uh the pump station for the entire project is located in phase four where my marker is now basically in the center uh you'll see me repeat back to this when we get into the site planning but the circulation of the entire property is again we we developed the main access with the signal to Mammoth Road but then we have this Loop Road which we call Linda's Drive anybody knows veto knows that's very important um there was a signal at this what we call the reversing Jug Handle and we have the signal at Pine Drive so Linda's Drive connects this jog handle this J handle was built by uh Mammoth County when they built when they bifurcated and improved Mammoth Road nearly more than 20 years ago and they left a St here intended for this to be a service road to connect basically the two traffic lights uh so phase three and four site plans that you'll see in a moment completes uh that access Drive known as Linda's drive to meet that Master Plan circulation Improvement required by uh Ocean County uh not relevant to a lenu sport but I think it's important to say out loud that uh the marketing of these commercial uses that that were approved in 3 and four proved to be very challenging I normally do not get involved with that with my clients in this case I was involved in many cases because for example uh we had different wave poool manufacturers wave pool investors that were trying to do it I personally met with three different ones I'm talking world class Surfers around the world I could give you name Sean Thompson everybody knows that name uh but none of them could come bring the project to fruition um frankly the common tale was that there's not enough rooftops not enough houses not enough dwelling units to drive the commercial uh success of the project uh so that brings us to today uh which is we have made uh the application uh excuse me mron through the chair please yes just before you get to today U how many apartments have been approved up through the application years 52 units 52 were approved in the GDP 52 and that includes how many apartments and regular town houses Apartments whatever that was uh 50 there's a 10% affordable uh requirements that'll be 50 uh 50 affordables and 450 market and uh usual on customary this town has always had 20% for affordable housing uh I I would hope that you would think that through as we go along and I I answer that now the reason it's 10% is the the affordable units here are special needs and special needs offer a two to1 credit under the affordable housing if you know Mr cardinali special needs are very important we developed site alapin that has special needs housing that is occupied and functioning very well okay it's nobody's cutting Corners it's special needs housing which is the most underserved part of the affordable housing market Mr board isn't generally a set aside based on the number of units not the type of the units normally it is but in this case it was set aside by the type of unit the ordinance particularly the HMU Zone requires us to do special needs affordable housing doesn't allow us to it requires us to a minimum of 10% minimum of 10% that's correct okay now the the apartments or units that are approved are do those tow houses are they regular apartments are they for sale apartments are they rentals are we talking about the previous approvals previous approvals previous approvals were Apartments so all of them are apartments and obviously there were rentals not for bir for sale I yes they were designed as rental apartments okay and how many how many bedrooms do they average I I don't recall what the uh what the uh approval was for the bedroom mix I have that in my files I don't recall okay when when you get to the answer I would appreciate it okay thank you so now we move to the actual project that we're in front of the town for so so again this area we are going to be speaking phase three and four is is this area to the Western portion of the project uh phase one is is the amended site plan that we're going to discuss in uh in March uh but if you can go to the next exhibit please Anthony so here we have the site plan this is exhibit A5 which is the phase three and four site plan as submitted to the board and what we have here is uh our we are proposing to do uh townhouse units residential townhouse units uh the just as a matter of fact and this is really relevant more to March 5 hearing but just again since we're talking about the project in Totem the commercial uses in phase one which was about 70,000 square ft and the hotel that was in approved in phase four have been removed from phase three and four but they are they they have been moved to phasee one that you will hear in March 5 forgive me the yeah repeat that for me so the 70,000 s ft plus or minus of commercial it was first floor commercial with mixed use residential above in phase three that was approved as I noted before and then you had a what we call the third hotel in phase four those have been eliminated in the site plan that we're discussing tonight but what I'm saying is that those uses have been moved to f phase one we have an am the amended site plan application for phase one puts them back in we just mve them from phase 3 and four to phase one thank you I think that's part of the misinformation that that uh you know people say we wiped out the commercial by doing this we didn't wipe it out we're just moving it to phase one and Mr on that note if you don't mind so I don't want to get you ahead but you're right there there has been some so if you're will to discuss with the phasee one if those things are being moved over to phase one what is being removed from the currently approved phase one what is being removed from phase one is the most Central dearest part of the project not being not being removed entirely but moved is is the medical school and the Medical Campus I mean the medical research and the Medical Campus and that's being moved that is being moved this has not been publicly discussed but I think that is being moved to another site if if you could go back to the aerial please Anthony that is being moved off of The Adventure Crossing property again people talk without knowledge and it's nice to have knowledge unfortunately it's not in the aerial when we come back for phase one I'll make sure we show it but Mr cardali purchased the property on the other side of Six Flags it's right next to the the access Drive um it's actually right in front of the public parking for Six Flags uh he purchased the property and my office is currently developing site plans for the medical research and medical school on that property is is that in Jackson or the Jackson that's in Jackson so again I wish I wish people would call rather than talk because they could get some information if they chose what fun is that what fun is that it's could I ask for clarification um you stated that all of the commercial uses from phase three and four that are being removed are being added in or no I didn't say all the use I said all the commercial in phase three commercial uses all the commercial in phase three which is a first floor of a commercial mixed use is moving to phase one as a first floor of a mixed use so a Apples to Apples that's the only thing that's being removed and it's being transplanted the only commercial use nope and the and the third hotel and the third hotel and that's also being moved yes the only thing being removed from phase 4 that no longer exists in the project and really this applies to to everything this is the only uses being removed from the project as part of these these these two amended approvals we're seeking is the uh wave pool and the indoor water park that's why I emphasize the marketing the indoor water park takes up a lot of land it's very expensive there's ground water issues you to make a a a a surf pool has to be very deep water we have high groundwater here it just it makes it expensive to build uh just does not work don't tell Doug CLE the planning board engineer so what we are proposing uh if you can go back now to the next one please Anthony a uh five there we go thank you so now we're talking phase three and and four um I think I misspoke Dr hofstein I'm looking at my notes I have in my notes here that the uh GDP was approved for 560 residential units that was the original number 560 correct the site plan for phase three was 505 I'm sorry too many numbers what we are proposing for phase three and four is 505 residential units five 459 residential townhouse units and 46 special needs housing units in a single three-story building and I'll talk through that in a minute I'll show them on the map but I think not that it's right and and we require no variances for this I'll get into the planning in a moment but um the amount of commercial in phase three and four is less than the the amount of I'm sorry the amount of residential in phase three and four is less than the residential that was approved in uh the GDP and um uh slightly increased over what was approved in phase uh three so I'm going to talk about the zoning first and then we'll get into the uh into some site plan details uh it's important when we I mentioned earlier WR when I started talking about the HCM U Zone the HCM U Zone was developed purposely to only apply to an assemblage of properties as I noted the description in the ordinance limits it to the south side of Mammoth Road between 195 and Six Flags but the Zone was purposely written so that any one of those going back to that original aial I showed with the different properties the Lots 1 2 3 4 5 6 1920 it was purposely written so that no one of those properties could individually qualify for the HMU because the whole intent to the ordinance was to create the large project envisioned by the 2009 master plan so basically the acmu zone is an overlay Zone the a highway commercial Zone still exists and that's going to be relevant in the in a minute so let's talk about the HMU Zone the HCM U Zone uh has certain track requirements for any board the track to comply and to to utilize Zone requirements U and the track requirements are that the minimum tra area is 70 Acres the track width is 2,900 ft of contiguous Frontage not broken up in different frontages track uh well that I'm sorry that was track width well track width and Frontage are both 2,900 ft and the track depth is 1,000 ft and the total assemblage of lots 1 through 6 19 and 20 complies with that requirement because the track areir is 2865 Acres the track width in Frontage is 4300 ft so greatly exceeds the 2900 and the track depth is 2950 ft these facts and figures that I just read are found in many of these resolutions that I quoted uh in my my description and it is the H it is I'm sorry it is the HMU Zone that permits multif family residential units pursuant to chapter 24457 2E um I know we've discussed this but let me put it on the record the density permitted by the HMU Zone that existed at the time of the application being deemed complet on December 11th 2014 is four units per gross acre it's already been determined and and agreed upon that the subsequent ordinance 3324 adopted by the council is not applic appable to this project nor it is applicable to the phase one being reviewed in in March we'll discuss that the proposed dentity of phase three and four is 1.76 units per acre much less of course than the four the ordinance further says as we just talked about that a minimum of 10% of the dwelling units shall be reserved for special needs affordable units so we have provided 46 special needs units in a single three-story building located in in Phase 4 the special needs building looking at the exhibit is on the right side to Jason you have eight phase one on the right side you have six on the left with Mammoth Road on the top it's it's adjacent to uh to phase four phase one I'm sorry I'm sorry did you say 46 units I thought you said 50 before what did I miss 46 units that's I think the 50 units was part of the GDP that was the old approval oh okay yeah it does say on the plan 58 sorry on this plan that were have proposed up on the wall yes that's actually one says 58 unit that's actually one of the comments in that is a typographic error on the plans it the actual number is 46 thank you and how many regular units what are there downouse units 459 457 4 um the special needs affordable housing will be constructed and occupied in the ordance with the applicable COA and uck standards the COA standards require 10% of the COA units in our case five units to be completed upon uh Co of our 116th 116 townhouse which is 25% of the total plus one um since this is a multif family building with with the affordables the entire building would obviously have to get built to occupy those those five units uh the the AC CMU standards they the residential standards in the 8mu zone also require that the roadway and parking improvements comply with the residential site improvements which we do again we'll get into that in the site plan uh testimony in a moment there are also standards for maximum building size and minimum building setbacks to other buildings and parking um planners review correctly determined that that the plans that we originally submitted to the board contained five different types variances for building setback from internal access drives and parking and parking areas we did submit revised site ples on January 24 eliminating those setback deficiencies uh but and we are requesting uh no no variances uh to to wrap up the acmu uh requirements the ordinance limits building coverage to 30% we are proposing for the total tract uh 20% the impervious coverage is limited to 75% and the entire tract proposes an impervious coverage of 46% so that is the Zoning for the multif family residential the fact that they are permitted in the HMU Zone and we meet all of the Zone requirements so no variances are required for the residential units we do have another use proposed on the uh on the property uh outdoor recreation use we have a paintball play area which is the Shaded area on the top of the plane that is intended to be a an outdoor recreation use complimentary to phase one where we have the outdoor play or field areas in the air doome which which has a large recreational component uh it was questioned in the planner's letter if a if a paintball use requires a a d variance it does not because the paintball is a permitted commercial recreation activity uh which is a conditional use under section c of the highway commercial mix use Zone uh the highway commercial mix use Zone in addition to the list of uses not included in the highway commercial Zone also permits all uses in the highway commercial Zone and commercial recreation activity is a permitted use in the highway commercial Zone recall that I had in the phase one the original phase one that dates back to 2017 we have the outdoor uh play uh softball fields baseball soccer fields which are those were approved under that same section of the ordinance as a permitted use so the paintball is a permitted out commercial recreation activity so that won't just be for residents Mr board that'll be a commercial use that anybody could utilize that is correct thank you uh the building and parking for the commercial recreation for the paintball will be located in the existing airdome the existing air doome has recre ational uses has has an office has a place toay obviously pay when you go play golf or do any of the other activities in the building so this was just simply another activity uh in the uh the existing airdome so as a result there's no there's no site plan improvements required to accommodate the paintball we're simply providing the play area in the undeveloped portion that the portion of the the play area is a forested wetland so we're not proposing any development uh and that is another question uh the planner raised is can we can we do this can we do this this play area inside the Wetland and I would I would state that that in my opinion we can uh and I have two reasons for saying that first the the original lot one owned by Vince sigara had a paintball business in there for many years and that paintball business occupied many of these same Wetland areas so there is there is a historical precedent of that use on this property U and secondly in my opinion the proposed activity within the wetlands is not a regulated activity pursuant to the freshwater wetlands protection act because we are not proposing to remove we're not proposing to remove any vegetation or perform any development activity the forested Wetland in this area is a uh well it's a forested wetland and it it has no undergrowth it's just trees so um I think we can all envision that that's a perfect environment for paintball because the trees themselves uh form the Fallen trees that naturally occur in a forest for example form the natural play area for the uh paintball activity excuse me chair are there any other Recreation areas for the residents of the uh apartments and Tow houses Etc we'll get to that in the site planning okay thank you um I just want to finish up on the commercial recreation because it is a conditional use in the highway commercial zone so it's important to talk through the U um the there's very few but there's a few conditional use requirements so to be a permitted use of course we have to meet all the conditions of the conditional use and those are listed in the ordinances lot one even singularly complies with the highway commercial Zone um secondly that no building structure active Recreation Area or parking shall be located closer than 50 ft to any residential Zone well we don't have a residential Zone on this property it's a it's a mixed use Zone but uh the nearest residential zone is located on Anderson Road on the eastern part of the job which is more than a th000 ft from from this area uh third is uh commercial swimming pools have to comply with a separate ordinance standard obviously we're not proposing a swimming pool so that's not applicable the fourth item is that uh relates to Amusement machines coin operated machines such as video or pinball machines uh you're limited uh to five machines as an accessory use that's not applicable we're not proposing that here of course and that and that that that concludes the conditional use requirements for the uh commercial recreation activity so my opinion that use is a permitted use there's no other than the play of these Forest of wetlands there's no development there's no development activity associated with just use of that forested Wetland lastly uh correctly raised by the planner was uh requesting testimony about what we call the co-generation building Anthony if you could expand on the right side of this and not work on the uh in this area among among the many things that Adventure Crossing is doing is they're they're also serving to be a good Steward by proposing U electric generation on the property um there's a proposed what we call a proposed micro grid on the property as well as service from jcpnl it's it's intended to complement uh the service from jcpnl the micro grid provides both electric and thermal energy throughout the entire Adventure Crossing campus it consists of two components one is solar systems I'm sure the members have seen that phase one has existing solar panels out there that were approved as part of their phase one uh that is one aspect of the micro GD the second is cogeneration uh cogeneration is a system as described in your planning rev viw correctly that produces heat and electricity simultaneous in a single plant powered by one source to create a second uh source and uh in our case we have the Cod generation building which is shown on the phase four plans was already approved as part of phase one and phase four and that is this building right here um it's a Mason rebuilding that contains the uh the generators uh that building again was approved as part of phase one and phase four including a variance that that building is set back 15 ft from the phase one line uh where a side setback of 20 ft is required for an accessory building the the SE variance for that setback was already granted is part of phase 1 and phase 4 uh particular ly in the phase 4 resolution number this proposed development of phase three and four does not intensify nor have any effect on that parking garage that parking garage is intended for use uh by the phase one activities so um there is no modification uh to that D1 variance in phase one as a result of phase three and four phase three and four provides adequate parking under residential site Improvement standards does not rely upon nor have any impact on the parking garage the parking garage Dev variant will be a subject of the phase uh phase one site plan in 30 days in March 5 because that application will seek to move the parking garage we're Shifting the location so that will be uh a necessary uh amendment to that D1 variance for phase one but it has no effect on on phase three and four so with with that conclusion to the zoning testimony there are no variances required to develop our proposed uses of residential townhouse units or the uh the outdoor uh play area reading through the planning report it was I think it was mentioned and Ernie could comment on that D variance for the height of the co-generation plant is there no the co no the codenation pl is just a single story masonry building it's only 20 feet tall I didn't see that in in the letter but there's no there's no height for that Madam chair I have a question in fact in fact with the HCM Zone even the airome that received the D variant in its first iteration in 2017 now meets the zone I'm sorry now meets the height requirements so there's no D variance for any Building height um in on currently on the property Mr bordon on paintball you said the closest you got to be uh how far from residential it's over a thousand from from from the offsite residential obviously it's closer to our residential I say that's that's is there a difference in that I mean I in my opinion yes I think the ordinance is describing offsite residential you think Mr Peters your opinion of that I don't want to take any exception currently but we couple things so my understanding Mr bordon was giving a history and a background so if we're going to do full zoning analysis we need revised plans because the plans that are on file right now need many variances and so while Mr bordon may have revised a sketch to get rid of them 10 days before the meeting we didn't review them it took me 28 pages to review the first plan so as we get into more of the specifics and the zoning issues I'm going to reserve my right until I have a full set of plans in front of me so we can get back and talk about each of the things that Mr Gordon has started in terms of both background and history if we want to go through item by item that's okay I would ask him to address my report in some detail but I suspect my report's going to become moot when revised plans are submitted yeah so I'd be happy to get out of scale and measure and try to interpret what the ordinance meant is it to a property line is it to an actual use I get what your question is is but at this point that's one of literally dozens of questions are going to get asked about the layout so with all due respect if we could just wait until we see what the final layout looks like yes is is there a building that's in phase four that's too close to a residential building also within phase four that's a fair question I'll wait for the answer thank you okay yeah no I I completely agree after this hearing we will be submitting revised plans and and that review that particular review we we'll follow I I fully agree with what Mr Peter said so just then to briefly uh talk about the site plan design U it's important I I had previously in describing the site talked about the uh wetlands in phase three and four and those are primarily shown in the white areas you can see the the Wetland and buffer lines that are in the rear and the front of the property and uh this goes back to the work that I did with the vinera family back in the before 2017 and the involvement with Mr cardinali um Mr uh the lot one had received in Loi in 2006 they actually appealed their own Loi because they didn't like the uh some of the items contained in the LOI and that led to a very in my history my experience of working in this business a very unusual but helpful document which is What's called the mediation and settlement agreement with the DP so there's a mediation and settlement agreement that's attached to the environmental impact statement submitted to the board which is dated 2006 and what that does is it establishes the wet Lane limits and the Wetland buffer limits in perpetuity normally expires after 5 years and because this is the because this is a mediation and settlement agreement it does not expire so that uh that ele y dated 2006 remains valid U as a result normally Wetland and Wetland buffers are deed restricted after development is approved I'm sure this board has heard that many times and has imposed that as a condition in this case because of the settlement agreement a declaration of conservation easement was filed at the same time as the LOI so that was filed in in the clerk's office at the county in January 5 2007 and that again that document is also contained as an appendix in the yellow in the uh Eis so the Wetland limit the buffers and the conservation restrictions on those areas is firmly established and uh uh and filed in the clerk's office so those remain in perpetuity U I had mentioned in my previous discussion about myself working with the Vince seeras on a cul Crossing I want to talk about that for a moment keep picking up the wrong one between phase three and four we have this uh lway Creek and there was an existing Farm Road uh so I on behalf of the former owner of lot one the Vince agaras obtained a d Wetland and streum caching permit in 2007 that permit was actually funded by Ocean County if you can believe it because again the service road that I mentioned mentioned the whole point of this Linda's Drive is to serve as a service road to take some traffic off of Mammoth Road and to direct traffic to these two signals uh but that uh covert Crossing in particular that permit was a cover Crossing uh that not only do we put the covert in but we put in that part of the axess road one of the questions in the planers letter is that the opinion that possibly a wetland permit is required because this lend is Drive crosses the wetlands and my testimony is that no permit is required because that corate Crossing if you if you look closely at the site plan and we'll highlight that better in the next set is actually existing it's even curved so the it's not pavement it's dirt but the curb is there the cboard is there there's no disturbance required to Wetland or Wetland buffers to do that road crossing so um uh I guess we'll dig into the site plan standards a little bit um Linda's drive just generally talking about how we design the site has I had made the statement earlier that it's in Full full conformance with the risk standards and certainly we have you know Mr Ray for example will testify he'll he'll confirm but uh Linda Drive is proposed with a uh 30-ft cartway with sidewalk on one side uh we propose sidewalk on both sides in phase three because we have units on both sides in phase four we propose it on the south side only because the only thing on the north is Wetlands all the units are on the South Side the intent is connect The Pedestrian activity to the commercial uses in phase one uh the planner's letter notes that there were few pieces left out on the site plans that's part of the the work that we're going to do in the submittal that we'll make before the next hearing uh we will show that connectivity of that sidewalk the internal drives are all 24 feet wide with sidewalks on both sides uh accessible curb ramps and crosswalks will be provided at all intersections uh we did provide traffic circulation plans in the set that show that the uh emergency vehicles including the aerial fire apparatus can safely Traverse all the internal roads I would note that we did receive a bureau of fire prevention approval in a letter dated December 17th 2024 I had described how of previously how Mammoth County when they dualized Mammoth Road or when they put the concrete barrier it's two lanes either way with the concrete barrier they had developed these reversing jug handles and they allowed they kept the stub where I'm pointing now uh there is some work required just to widen that and uh that work that that plan has been been submitted to the board as well and it's under review at the uh Mammoth County Engineers office because Mammoth Road is the border of Mammoth and Ocean County there's an agreement between the counties that the mammoth County engineering department is the authority to do the engineering reviews even though they have no jurisdiction over the project they have full jurisdiction over the design of the roadway so part of our conditions of our County Ocean County approval is to get a sign off from Mammoth County engineer on the particular uh design of the uh Road improvements we we speaking of the roadway improvements that leads us to the singular design waiver that we have on the property and that is the curban sidewalk along Mammoth Road Again The Pedestrian connectivity is all intended through the project we had received a waiver previously in in phase three uh for a curban sidewalk with payment to The Pedestrian safety fund the the ration the reason for that is again this extensive area of wetlands uh that leads to such challenges on the property also serves to in my opinion limit that because and to extend a sidewalk those extended different distance from phase three to phase one along Mammoth Road would require disturbance to Fresh on Wetlands that I question it does meet any general permit standards so I I doubt that it could be approved in my opinion so for that reason we have had requested the waiver had been previously granted the waiver and we uh again requested as part of this plan excuse me is Mammoth County working with you on any road issues yes MTH county is actually uh very helpful to work with I would say yes I didn't say it out loud but in many cases better than ocean but you didn't hear me say that here once you're addressing some of the roadways that junk handle is only going to be you know you can't get out of this development into that Jug Handle correct you you don't go out to The Jug Handle The Jug Handle The Jug Handle is intended for cars going uh eastbound on Mammoth Road to turn to do a U-turn right so getting out of this development you would come out just come out to this intersection if you can expand right here Anthony that part of it is going to be two because I know right now The Jug Handle is obviously is is one way right so he's saying is that that part of The Jug Handle would be right you you see here see the striping here the Chevron striping got it that basically right now it's just one way out now we're doing is we're making we're we're changing the striping to make this the out and this the in did that make sense I hope it makes sense but it's revers normally no the same as any other Jug Handle this will be this will be your your driveway in and this is your driveway out on the right we're not going to England here it's all good aren't they pulling into The Jug Handle and out which way is the jug hand oh he's saying the the drug handle is only for people going eastbound to to do a U-turn got it okay we we we don't use the jandle we would just go in straight to the uh intersection perfect thank you we just have to modify the striping and and slightly widen the payment on this side to accommodate the uh ingress link the signals all in place none of that changes or improvements for this project the improvements for phase one that I described earlier were extensive the improvements for this phase are di minous is that the only entrance and exit for the for the apartments well recall that it no because it Loops through to the traffic signal at Pine Drive okay so it goes through phase one so there's an emergency people from the apartments we have two signals on both sides that's why Linda's drive again is the service road that goes through the entire project what did I say oh Linda's way I'm sorry I'm going to hear about that later um I'm going to talk about parking and stuff but again as as as Mr Peters had noted what I'm describing next might not be reflected in the the plans that were submitted so this will be what I'm testifying to will be reflected in the uh plans uh that will be uh that will be provided to the board after this hearing concludes so that you have adequate time to review for the for the next hearing uh the parking that we propose uh for the project will be fully conformant with the residential site Improvement standards uh risses requires 2.4 spaces for each townhouse each each townhouse contains a two-car garage and a two-car driveway uh Rissa states that a two and two combination counts as 3.5 spaces but but for that combination to work the driveways have to be wider than what we proposed so our four spaces actually count as three uh because the driveways are not 20 ft wide so for each townhouse unit we have three spaces where 2.4 spaces is required so we have more than enough parking the 2.4 spaces includes the half a space required for guest parking however the rist requires that the guest parking be located uh on a street or in common parking areas so the a extra driveway space may not be counted as part of the uh the guest parking so uh we will provide uh that there's 228 that's half of the 459 228 guest parking spaces you required either in common parking areas or uh on street and we will our plans that we're going to provide we'll we'll provide that amount of of common area or on street parking we are proposing 46 bases for the special needs affordable housing this is really going to be testimony that Mr Ray is going to give but uh in our opinion the residential site Improvement standards don't apply to that building because of this again its special needs it's not just these aren't one bedroom apartments these are special needs typically special needs units are are more of a uh they're being our experience in developing a special needs building in Manalapan Township I have acknowledge in this and experience that I otherwise would not have but but they they they're measured by beds um because you're dealing with special needs individuals they don't live in individ individual units with a full kitchen and U you know what we would call an apartment they live in more of a campus I don't know how to say it a campus setting where you have quads where four beds to a quad because they're under nursing supervision uh most of the time so or all the time so for that reason uh we have provided 46 spaces for the special needs housing because nearly all the tenants do not drive uh and and our experience is that one space per unit meets the needs of the resident and staff but Mr Ray will provide more testimony and I'm thinking out loud that we might bring in some uh documentation from our Manalapan site to assist the board in that when we come back um the affordable building will also be able to share with the common area parking there will be common area parking and closed proximity to the to the U to the affordable building um so and again we'll show that when we come back there will be a shared parking between the affordable building and the uh common area parking for the uh residential uh there is a requirement under the uh under now it's under residential site Improvement standards for the EV ready parking spaces that 15% must be EV ready uh that requires that 34 of our 228 must be or 15% must be EV ready we will show that on the on the revised plans uh 15% of the spaces in the affordable housing area will be EV as well and and in addition for the multif family units each of the townhouse units will have a 200 240 volt Level One charging capable EV ready Outlet so all of the townhouse units will be uh EV ready I'm near in the end so your sufferance is almost over uh we uh the the planner's letter asked about signs we did not show a sign on a plan that's an Omission on our part we are permitted to have a sign as an accessory use under the mix high highway commercial mixu standards under 57 V6 the uh current phase three approval includes a free sanding sign uh it's a small sign having a height of 45 ft and a sign area of 458 Square ft with 400 sare ft of digital um being yes I'm giving you some the time I'm going to propose um I mean I could yes testimony about things that are going to be a plan that has yes you don't have to take you don't have to take any AR you're more than welcome to have my notes that's going to be beneficial Mr I would you anybody is more than welcome to have my notes and I and but my notes are in 14 font was question of of your notes understand fonts I'm not inquiring into that just perhaps his testimony would be more useful once the I could stop if you'd like but let me let me skip over the sign let me skip over the sign let's just talk about things that are on the plans and that uh the the project will be serviced by public water and sewer there's an existing 16in water marine running along the site Frontage as well as water mains extended through phase one uh so phase three and four will simply Loop those water mains the site is located within the normal northern water treatment sewer service area for the Ocean County water quality management plan gravity sewer will be extended throughout phase floor to that existing Pump Station and noted previously um phase three and four have already been approved under the former layout by jtm UA we are currently seeking amended approvals from that agency there is capacity Mr bordon yes um re refu and recycling collection for the individual townhouse units will be the standard system of any any any townhouse or single family house in Jackson which is rooc cans for private pickup for separately trash and recycling the garage does contain adequate storage for those rooc cans that will be architectural testimony to be provided that is currently on the plants um a refu enclosure is provided for the affordable housing that will meet the township standards for separate areas for collection of refu and uh and trash um the homeowners association for the townhouse area will be responsible for the operation and maintenance of all parking areas sidewalks Landscaping lighting and storm water systems the property owner the affordable building will be required and will be obligated to perform the operation and maintenance of the affordable housing uh site uh I'll just conclude by a quick listing of the Outside Agency approvals the we had submitted to the Jackson Township police on November 21st no response has been provided uh we we will required to obtain approval from the Jackson Township recycling department as I noted previously the Bureau of fire prevention approved the project in December of 24 Jackson M mu way were submitted November they're in the process of amending their existing approvals the Ocean County Planning will the revision of the plans required to resubmit to any of these entities no because the the the revised plans don't change the buildings and the internal layouts the revised plans just wanted to be sure I understand let's be clear when we talk about revised plans the plane you're going to if I put this exhibit up and the exhibit that we come back with you're not going to be able to hardly see the difference the difference is only going to be it's going to be some some parking I can't keep my eyes open thank you I'm kidding uh you're the only person who can make jokes and people wonder why I don't want to go to zoning boards anymore that's why I don't see me very often I'm trying to stay away trust me they keep dragging me back in uh I can get this abuse at home um uh but the uh all you're going to see is some off common are parking areas at the the the internal Road system lind's way will stay the same The Bu the building locations will stay the same U so you're not going to really see don't it's and we'll see a sign we'll make sure the sign is on the plane uh and lastly we have the soil conservation uh they're also we currently have certification from them uh we're amending that certification and uh the Board of Health has approved the project and we have to get amended approvals from the Ocean County Utility Authority and D treatment works for sewer and for water and as I noted previously there is no approvals required from the njd for thresh Wetlands due to the existing uh settlement mediation agreement and the conservation easement document Madam chair I have a question yes Mr pres Mr bordon on Linda's way you mentioned the withd on Linda's way what's the width of the road uh 30t 30 feet now and my eyes aren't that good reading this at any point as it goes between the tow houses and out to phase one does it narrow down at all I can't tell if I'm looking at the it does narrow down I'll I'll detail this but the ples are accurate uh it does narrow down to 24 ft at the existing covert crossing the covert has to narrow down right yes just at the covert and there's nothing you do without d correct thank you through the chair yes question also you just mentioned a couple of those letters that you've sent out to the PD and to other agencies um when I was reviewing those letters that was actually from the first things that I was reviewing uh it says 4500 residential townhouse units with 46 special needs affordable housing units yes my understanding reading that was that there's 459 minus 46 no plus 46 right so I just want to know did you get any responses from those agencies did they understand the way I originally saw it meaning obviously you know we didn't have the plans until now um and I didn't have what to look at until I saw our planners review and he actually had a I think it was 5 like 15 units because of the mistake on the affordable so I just want to know if those agencies that you submitted to had my understanding originally obviously it's been clarified forther plans but did you get any responses and do they reflect the actual amount of residential Town owns plus they they typically don't regurgitate the number of units back when they reply uh frankly nor is it necessarily relevant in my opinion for example VI fire prevention uh not to speak for them but but having work with them for so many years their concern is of access right are the roads wide enough are they safe enough can they fit the emergency vehicle Vehicles what type of buildings are they are they twostory three story whether there's whether there's 51 or 100 of them is is not really relevant in in my op you do have you know you have UA but I would further I would further answer uh that that on every plan if you look down in the the bottom corner there's a parking chart and the parking chart lists the units and it shows the 459 plus the 46 one number two particularly with the police department because the police department is is looking at traffic so the number of units is important to them the traffic report done by Mr Ray is submitted to them which includes the total number of units so I respectfully say there's no chance for that type of of a misunderstanding if somebody is reading the traffic report and the notes on the plans hope they work NOP I'm not trying to be a smart guy no I'm just saying my my question was also for thema right the capacity is obviously low well again the when we go to the MUA there's the engineers reports you have to do separate Engineers reports for water and sewer and and right in the front of those reports is a chart of the numbers of units with the with the flows estimated flows per unit again those those units are added together so we tabulate them in a we add those together for every single chart report thank you for the clarification Madam chair um looking at this I this is going to be set up as an association I'm assuming some sort of the townhouse units will be fee simple and there'll be a common area okay so I don't see does that sound familiar is there going to be a manager's office or some sort of Clubhouse or something where someone who runs this Association we don't we don't propose that but the architect can testify to that when when he testifies I mean because these aren't rental these are for sale so no I understand there's no need for a you know on-site manager I mean Association run by the homeowners themselves right I'm I'm just taking a uh risk safety aspect having one setup I understand you know what I mean it's easier to find especially coming in a community I do know that Fire Police have difficulties finding where if there's one set address that they can go to will help them get to where they need to and well one of one of the uh one of the requirements of the pure fire prevention which is reflected on the PLS uh is clear very well defined addresses on each unit I mean they Define the size of the letters the colors of the letters they're so each unit will be marked so that they can be identified by Emergency Services thank you and there is no Community Building proposed in I say on this property yes M how do you propose to handle schol school buses you we have a lot of kids in in the community at some point uh will there be special stops they're not going to be put out on 537 to wait for buses I would well we it's up to the school board but we as I testified we provide rist's compliant roads with stop bars and crosswalks at all intersections sidewalks throughout the whole development where where the buses stop I don't know but the entire development is meant to be pedestrian friendly both within the community as well is connecting to phase one any other question Dr Mr himer any other questions Mr bordon I have a question sure um so Linda's way is the only road to connect phase three and phase four CU I don't see any other Ro correct yes so all the cars so The Jug Handle they can get in to phase three but to get or they can they can come into phase three but then they can't get out so they have to go all the way around through phase four to get out because there only one they can they can any any unit in phase three can never even ever go to phase four they can go in and out of that Jug Handle right so with school buses if they're going you know so that's the only main road is Linda's way to one room a lot of Apartments again that's the that was the the design regardless of the use the County planning board uh when they designed the barrated Mammoth Road when they put that concrete divider down the middle which means no more left turns right everything is goes through jug handles that's why they they designed that Jug Handle With That stub and that's why they did Pine Drive because their intention was to do this service rad right the Vince agaras I didn't say this but but it's relevant since the questions asked long before the Cardinal was involved uh when I was in working with them in 2006 when the county was was working to divide the roadway the Vince AER is actually threatened to sue the the county because the vineras had businesses along the highway here if you remember they had a bar and the chicken holiday and a few others and by by dividing the road they feared that that nobody could turn left into their business anymore right you were going to put them out of business so so for that reason to mitigate their concerns their reasonable concerns the county did this stub and actually designed and paid for this part of Road and actually funded the cover cross because of that loss of access they had by The Divided Road right so the question my question is now that there a lot of residential homes with schools and buses going there's are how are the buses going in and out of these developments if there's is there going to be other roads to they they're going to access it through either signal either either this drug handle or Pine Drive over here don't forget looking at the bigger picture Linda's w connects all the way up to Pine Drive up here all right thank you you guys look like you're ready for your next witness I I understand yes I don't think it's necessary to call a second witness as it's not going to get we're not going to get very far so if you wanted this time open up to the public if there any questions of Mr bordon based upon what testimony he's given we're happy to address that Mr will Mr bordon be available at the next hearing as much as Mr bordon says he doesn't want to go to his Zing board anymore he is coming back uh to the zoning board he will be here and as you indicate as Mr bordon indicated uh uh there will be some Revis some revisions based upon Mr Peter's letter so he'll have to address those make sure that yes professionals he's not getting away from this the chair um Mr bordon you mentioned many times the GDP uh I haven't seen it could you provide it for the board that we can review it and see what was there and what should be there um so that we could have a proper review uh we you can it's been yes we can do that and just just to clarify getting to the GDP is just exactly what it sounds like it's a general development plan that's what Mr B indicated you then come back for your individual as he's indicated as they've come back on those other site so really so the general development plan we're happy for you to review it's part of the record um but I believe as a testimony uh indicated there were separate resolutions and site plans for each phase and those are really what control the GDP is the general development but each one then gets drilled down so um and I think Mr bordon had had very well laid out all the previous resolutions and I believe they're part of the record and we have no problem providing copies of that as well uh but just so quickly you may find something in the GDP that is a general plan but I just I wanted it before uh to get the overall plan I was having honestly I had a struggle um preparing for this because we didn't have these plans until today so you know giving the GDP and fully we have no there's no objections helpful and beneficial for and that's why I asked Mr bordon to almost painstakingly go through the history um of the project because it it's important to get the general ideas to what what happened previously and certainly those resolutions all the resolutions and the GDP and everything or records of the board and records of this matter that are available and cognizable by the board and question pleas I would also note that Mr Peters put together a very nice summary of the approval uh dating back to 2006 with these because that covert I I didn't mention that covert Not only was it approved by D but it was approved by the Zone by the by the planning board uh because it was a development for a piece of road but anyway he he put a very summary together that's listed chronologically and I just broke it up into more of a phase approach but it's all the same information so at this point we're gonna at this point we're going to open it to the public if anyone is wishing to come forward at this time and speak about what was testified to tonight by Mr bordon please do so at this time or any matter or any other matter if you if you are not if you're not prepared to speak tonight understand that when you when they come back you will have an opportunity to to speak at that time as well but if You' like to come forward please do so Mr Rivier my name is Mr Rivier hold on one second please remember you have to speak very loudly it's very hard to hear but Mrs C Miss ciani will also have to swear you in okay you will you uh raise your hand which you already have and uh swear the testimony information and comments that you're about to present to the board represent the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes please state your name my name is Paul I'm Rivier I'm live on West commoner Road okay the first thing I want to talk is very r i I don't want to do that on the uh internet I don't know okay all right so um the first thing I got is that you know the applicants that come in here they're in here for their own purposes into you know for their own uh businesses the people who they hire are here to help sell that they're not going to tell you about the problems okay now the the zoning board is not the applicant you're looking out for Jackson Township okay you have your professionals who are giving you what they believe is the best for Jackson toal okay now I don't know how many people have read Mr Peter's report um maybe you haven't I'm not going to ask you to raise your hand but it's very important for each and one every one of you to read his report now uh I have a question for the town for the zoning board are do you intend to hire your own traffic engineer or are you or the zoning board already has a traffic engineer all right then now have you put him on this job I mean I mean independent traffic engine this is a project that would require a traffic engineer they will do they they will do their due diligence as well but right now the applicant was putting on his case that is why there was no discussion of traff there was no discussion of traffic tonight I know I understand that don't so please don't start parm talk in general here now so we can expect the zoning the Jackson Township to have its own traffic engineer and not rely on the applicant's traffic engineer absolutely okay that's good now you're going to need a whole list of experts for this massive 1100 uh home plan all we can only discuss what was put on the record this evening so this evening we're not discussing 1100 units this evening we are discussing 505 459 regular units and 46 I said that correct you can't do that to me you can't do that to me this is 1100 Mr River I need you to understand we can only discuss what was testified to tonight we have we have no problem hearing your concerns hearing your issues we can only discuss what was testified to tonight I come back concern about something and it's it's the totality of this site plan overall site plan if you parse it and make it little pieces you're not seeing the big picture all right now there's 1100 homes I don't know maybe I'm Wrong by want you know the exact number this is this site is is uh basically isolated from Jackson you how are all these school buses going to get into Jackson not and I'm just saying if you parse it into these little pieces it's not a big problem but when you look at the whole plan which you must do you're going to see there's huge problems here okay so it's to the it's to the applicants advantage to parse it into little pieces so you don't see the big picture Madam chair Mr Peters if I might I can assure you that our review reconciles that this is part of a general development plan that as Mr bordon indicated started out at 285 Acres that's not lost on us nor on our review I would caution the board through the board attorney the only application before us is the application tonight so yes there's a separate application for phase one and there'll be a similar set of reports from your Professionals for phase one as part of a combined 280 unit project okay so I understand and again whether we explain a whether Mr Rivier accepts our explanation the applicant's entitled to put it in phases they can't build 28 acers all at once there plans exhibit packet that Mr wardon created based upon the review of the history that my office prepared I think does show the entire project and as we go through it Mr Ray traffic isn't going to be for 400 units it's going to be the existing traffic the traffic proposed here the traffic proposed for the rest of the project that's how the pro that's how traffic engineering gets done as it relates to parking water sewer it's not lost that this is part of a bigger project but we can only ask them questions about this part and then ask them to reconcile it with the original General development plan for 285 units so we may not take the straight line that Mr Rivier wants to but I think we take the circuitous route we understand that this is part of a bigger project but the only application that's before us is for the amended site plan for phases three and four okay well thank you for that all right now in terms of experts and what Mr computer's doing you're going to need an expert on codenation to be working for you there's a going a co-generation plan here and you need to know exactly the negative effects of that co-generation plan because when you do your D1 you have to take into account all the negative effects that will impact it now that co-generation is very close to your your uh affordable housing and other other units now do does anybody here know anything about a co-generation electric plant I don't think I think you need an expert on that so that's one point okay now the traffic and I know you're going to talk about traffic but this all these school buses have no access other than 537 Anderson Road in 57 want okay and what schools are they going to go to okay now in terms of all this background I I don't buy any of it when they make major changes to a plan all the previous approvals are null and void you got to start all brand new and I think it it served us to just confuse things about this and that what used to be you got to do a a whole brand new chalk board and only look at what is before you now okay now I don't know how many of these approvals have expired now New Jersey D has expir hard expiration dates so that's another thing I'm going to be done in a second we got to consider pedestrians bicycles public transportation uh you know Jackson is fortunate it has a lot of wetlands and that's a good thing for the residents because you can't build on wetlands and that helps us retain our open space now this uh paintball thing that's on Wetland buffers you I think we need to as Jackson citizens make a hard Line in the Sand saying we're not messing with anything we're not going to compromise anything wet anything environmental all right so if they want to use Wetlands buffer to say no you're not going to use Wetlands buffer okay now this bigger thing could be you need schools there could be a school in there there probably needs for uh for Public Safety uh you you you have to have your checklist because I don't know if the uh Jackson Township Fire Department can handle uh four or five floors so um there could there could be there needs to be a community center you're to to sort of make your final point for tonight because we want to see if anybody else well I got five minutes am I done and am I also I want to uh register myself as an objector I want to be able to uh cross-examine the uh engineers and the traffic report when that time comes up you will have that opportunity now how about Parks is there any I don't see any playgrounds I don't see any parks I don't see any pedestrian roads I don't see any bike Lanes I mean all right just to to to uh to summarize it I have been working for the federal government for 30 years and this is my experience with judges okay if you have an engineer who explains to a judge that whatever's gonna whatever that happened is going to hurt the the government or the town you're not going to find a judge who's going to kick out the engineer and play play engineer all right so I'm not really if you do everything right you shouldn't be worried about lawsuits and the second thing is no no checklist no quality I found in previous applications that the checklist wasn't followed and you got a huge checklist here I mean it's huge this is very serious you make mistakes it's going to be permanent it's going to be a nightmare permanently these people's quality of life will be zero with no with no hand with with no Parks no open space uh and that co-generation plant nobody here is an expert on that you need to find and that's it okay thank you very much thank you Mr I was turning off my microphone I was jumping the gun can we ask that the plans be submitted more than 10 days before the second meeting in April whispered ask second heard onil add thank you hi see you in two weeks no two weeks two weeks