##VIDEO ID:fu5rafuuNpU## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e order please stand for the pledge of allegiance alance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic which stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all good evening ladies and gentlemen pursu to njsa 10 col4 the open public meetings act notice of this duly and regularly scheduled meeting of the Jackson Township Zoning Board of adjustment has been posted uh and published in all appropriate locations can we have roll call [Music] please Mr Heyman here Dr hofstein Mr Miss Parnes here miss Rosal here Mr Martins present Mr Stafford Smith here miss Bradley here Mr Murphy we have resolutions this evening yes we do Madam chair we have three resolutions this evening beginning with resolution number 202 2451 uh that is the resolution denying preliminary and final site plan with the use variants on property located at 167 North hope Chapel Road Block 1372 lot one eligible to vote on this resolution are Mr Hudak and Miss Bradley to approve resolution call please Mr Heyman no oh I'm sorry so my apologies Mr Hudak Miss Bradley yes this is resolution 224-5222 through June 30th of 2025 um every board member here this evening is eligible to vote second roll call please Mr Heyman yes Dr hofstein yes Mr Hudak yes Miss Parnes yes Miss Rosal yes Mr Martins yes Mr Stafford Smith yes M Bradley yes the last resolution this evening is resolution 2024 53 this is a resolution granting preliminary subdivision only with variance on property located at 225 Brewers Bridge Road Block 14101 Lot 21 portion of Lot 19 um also known as future lot 20 2.01 eligible to vote on this particular resolution Miss Bradley Miss Parnes Dr hofstein Mr Hudak Mr Rosal Mr Martin and Mr Stafford Smith second roll call please Dr hofstein yes Mr Hudak M bares yes Miss Rosal yes Mr Martins yes Mr Stafford Smith yes Miss Bradley yes that concludes the resolutions for this evening Madam chair okay and I believe we have minutes this evening as well um yes that would be typically uh Mr tulo the recording uh interm recording secretary would announce those but there are meetings that were presented from November 6th of 2024 I need a motion on a second to approve the minutes please motion to approve roll call please sorry who was the second Miss Bradley thank you Mr Heyman yes Dr hofstein yes Mr Hudak Miss Parnes yes Miss Rosal Mr Martins yes Mr Stafford Smith yes Miss Bradley yes I have a voucher for this evening for the recording secretary for Jackson Township the amount of $175 I need a motion and a second to pay the voucher please move to pay roll call please Mr Heyman yes Dr hofstein yes Mr Hudak Miss Parnes yes M Rosal Mr Martins yes Mr Stafford Smith yes Miss Bradley yes uh Mr Murphy we have announcements this evening uh we do have two announce well we have one announcement and then I'm going to call forward application number two because that's going to count as an announcement I believe uh but the first announcement this evening is with regard to application number one uh that's applicant uh Rosen Bloom variance 3464 block 13301 Lot 19 440 445 Brewers Bridge Road uh that application uh has requested to be carried to the January 15 2025 meeting of the Jackson Township Zoning Board of adjustment um no further notice will be required uh so this is this is the notice that this is being carried to that date um and the applicant has wave time um so that's being carried to January 15 2025 yes excuse me I'm sorry can you just speak into your microphone eight times correct how many times are we going to continue to carry this can we impose a um some type of rule saying that if it's not heard on this next one it's you have to start over if the board is so if the board is so inclined to make that motion and and second and vote right now we can make that January 15th a come before the board or or your application dismissed date I mean how does everybody else feel about that I mean it's been going on for months and months and months enough that's my take on it so I'd like to make a a motion that that would be the final I'll second that that that there would be no more carry after J right either either we have one we don't it might not be final because something is missing but we we're going to have one on the I just I agree can I just ask a question first I I just want to know if we're setting a precedent of in general I meaning you are we setting up that there's a certain amount of times that we can postpone an application move it um just not sure if that's something that we should or shouldn't be doing I think it should be more of a discussion about it again you know this is this is up to the board right I'm telling the board what the board is permitted to do um if the board is is not pleased with the number of times this has been carried the board is I right can can can limit that um again that that is some there's a first of all there's a motion on the floor with a second um so the there is a motion that's going to be voted on one way or the other um secondly this is permitted um there's nothing that forbids this from happening the rules under the ml uh and the ordinances the rules regarding these hearings are set by the zoning board um and the Z and quite frankly um this has been carried many many times now uh the just to remind the board in the event that the board has um and I don't I don't even know that everybody first of all everybody who's sitting on this board was not present for this application uh I believe that everybody has certified since because it was listed for the September meeting but I couldn't even testify to that at the moment what I can tell you is is that if you recall this application this was the application that invoked somewhat of a anomaly in terms of what variance was needed um regarding the uh pre-existing structure um and the size of the addition and how that affected the the the the tax rateable and it was it's a very strange issue um if you recall the the the the um the the addition that's s is is rather large and the home that's there is rather small um so we were we had carried um with the hope that we would receive an updated um plan um and so that has not yet happened um so so again you know it has been a significant period of time this is not it's not as if it's excuse me the board is having trouble hearing um it's not as if this has been 4 months it's not as if it's been eight months uh we're talking about this has been carried since uh it looks like July 19th of 2023 so you you as the board are are well within your right to limit this at this point I mean we're we're we're catching up on a year and a half now so so I I take no issue that there is a motion on the the floor I don't think we're you know I think we're setting a precedent that that a year and a half of carrying is not going to be something that this board is going to entertain any longer and the reason I was so quick to Second it is um if we go back and look at the emails from dawn his cancellations are almost always in the last 24 to 48 hours um and at some point you know we have other applications that have to be carried excuse me that we put off because this application has been put on over and over and over at what point do we say enough is enough can I ask a quick question procedurally um what happens if they either don't you know show up the request to carry it or then at that point it gets cancelled they're not it's not being withdrawn just what are what exactly is the process and also to piggyback on that are they is is it in some way limiting their ability to like refine their application come back and you know file again or so so I would what are the implications so here's being that my my background is litigation I'm going to use a term that we talk about a lot uh what I would Define this as a dismissal without prejudice for lack of prosecution and what I mean by that is that the application would be dismissed but administratively because they failed to prosecute the application um you know so so again it it's not going to prevent them from coming back but this can't sit on the books forever I mean it cannot sit as an open open application forever so it's a good question Mr and I I I as your attorney I I agree with your your position so can I just ask one um small question we you picked right now January 5th right so have they guaranteed they yeah January 5th I'm going to be there and I'm going to have everything right every time we've been carrying it is because they've guaranteed that correct m m Mr Martins this is from a procedural perspective um the applicant uh when they request to carry are provided dates by the uh zoning clerk the Z uh they select a date based upon the dates that are provided by the zoning clerk um so the applicant is the one who selects the date to which they're carried okay great thank you hey Ryan if I can add um this has happened in the past also and the board has made a prior boards have made similar determinations they don't there's no policy in place they they they've always done it it on application by application basis specifically for this reason so you're not setting any president prior boards have done taken similar action I I you know what I'll be frank with you I had an applicant who kept pushing off I I do applicants work I've had an I have had this experience myself where I had an applicant who was not getting plans Notting just kept and finally the board similarly said you're coming or it's being dismissed without prejudice so we made it but but uh but that I had it this is permitted so that being said we have a motion and a second on the floor um to notify uh the applicant Rose and Bloom for variance 3464 that if they do not show up for the January 15th meeting that it will be ad dismissed administratively excuse me so rot call please I'm sorry Gina Mr Martins is is the U alternate so he doesn't vote does no yes yes yes so it's going to happen now based upon the board's vote I will send a confirming letter uh advising the applicant uh tomorrow uh of what occurred uh tonight and that there this will be a last chance um Carri moving right along so you're going to go to your second announcement yeah so I am going to call application number with with your chair's permission I'm going to call application number two uh a Partners LLC preliminary final site plan 918 use variance 3497 block 2901 Lots 79 and 10 and this is one uh 1007 West Commodore Boulevard Mr faab your appearance yes thank you madam chair members of the board board professionals and public good evening my name is Kenneth Pape I'm with the firm of hurn Pape and I'm here before you this evening on a Partners I'd like to acknowledge the correspondents that I received from Ryan Murphy this afternoon and to tell you that I understand the position that is set forth clearly in that letter I want to apologize to the board to the board's Professionals for um filing too late an exhibit with this board and we acknowledge that the procedures that are set forth in Mr Murphy's letter are absolutely correct respectfully ask if the board please accept my apology and I ask that you carry us to a future date I think the date that was available is January 15 2025 that does work for the professional team if that works for the board we would ask for that date Mr P thank you very much no apologies necessary these things happen um this board has determined um that uh we have been bit lenient um with regard to the timing of submissions um however again the board the board this board uh specifically takes their obligations very seriously um they very thoroughly review their applications um and as a result they've uh they've made it clear to me and I that this this is a a position that we are taking um and and I agree I mean again it's not this is not I I appreciate your words um I appreciate your your um humbleness and and certainly it's not designed in any way to be punitive um it's simply just a matter of procedure again I I will note as of yesterday afternoon that that particular concept plan is deemed to be filed so at the next meeting of course it will be part of the record and open to uh uh to being considered uh I appreciate your courtesies in the matter though thank you um with that said Madam chair I don't believe that the board has an objection to carrying this application but but uh we do have an objector here uh Mr Paul Rivier and I'd like to give Mr Paul rier an opportunity uh Mr Rivier also submitted um documentation just today um I did not see that it came in at about 3:30 today when I was actually dealing with this other issue um I saw it when I went to send the letter to everyone um advising of my POS of my discussion with the chair uh my position outl line to the board um and the position that I outlined to to all all of the litigants and professionals um you know so so again uh there were no surprises here what was the surprise was I did see that Mr Rivier had submitted a a rather uh lengthy um uh document I call it it's a PowerPoint presentation that I have yet to review um again 3:30 this afternoon uh I also advised uh in the email sending the letter that uh advised Mr P of the applicant's rule violation that the same rule had been violated by the uh by the objector with regard to the submission of evidence in a timely fashion um yes that is true uh njsa 40 colon 55d uh 10B requires that all these uh documents be submitted 10 days before uh our ordinance uh which is also requires uh the same submission time frame um so so again uh it was not not only the applicant who violated procedure but also the objector and if uh Mr Rivier would like to be heard um then that that is something that he's uh permitted to do to the mic first of all thanks for everybody for being here and uh looking out for Jackson uh the document I gave you today was like I would say 85% duplicate of what I already gave you August 21st what it was is an update and I was advised that as long as I got it in before closing it could be heard so August 21st I brought it to you I tried to hand it to you Mr R Mr R Mr R hello I can't talk I need I need to swear you in sir I need to swear you in oh okay no problem please raise your right hand do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony information questions or comments they are about to present before the board will represent the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes thank you proceed okay the document I submitted today uh was an update to the document I gave the zoning board on August 21st so um is it's just cleaned up a little bit the uh the essence of the uh of the issues is the same so you've had it for since August 21st and uh uh and I think that that's pretty timely you just admitted on the record that the document was updated correct I got to come up to you I got a hearing problem all right well yeah go ahead sir I didn't I have a hearing problem you just admitted on the record that you updated that document and submitted an updated document at 3:31 p.m. today is that correct yeah sure okay yeah that's correct I'm telling you it's like 90% the same I just cleaned it up understood thank you very much uh okay is do you have a position on the uh uh adjournment on this matter I'm sorry sir do you have a position on the adjournment of this matter got to can you come up here and help me I'm I'm having a hard time even with the hearing AG well I would object to that we have other uh objectors come here at night um um you know we have a life to live too and we're here we we spend the day preparing for it we we come we we organize and unless there was some like fatal defect I would urge you to go ahead and hear the uh the issues okay board we have a request for an adjournment and an objection to the request for an adjournment it's going to require a vote um so I either need a motion to approve or deny the adjournment if it's adjourned based upon what Mr Pape stated this would be adjourned to January 15 2025 Jackson Township resting board uh of adjustment meeting uh if it is adjourned no further notice will be required uh and again uh I know that I don't even have to ask Mr P but I will for the record I assume that if this is adjourned the applicant waves time counselor the applicant does wave the time for the board to act I do so on the record and we'll follow it with correspondence the extension will be to February of 2025 and I'd like to point out that the procedural defect that is identified with Clarity in Mr Murphy's letter is a procedural defect and with a procedural defect I we would be out of line to ask this board to act so I respectfully ask that you accept our request for adjournment to a date circuit agree I would make a motion to just can I put one more thing on the record I just want to I just want to reiterate the procedural defect that was identified and placed upon the record with citation by Me was not only only violated by the applicant um it was also violated by the objector so uh that's something that the board should keep in mind as a matter of fairness okay so I stand with that motion I make a motion to adjourn to the next available opportunity January 15 second we have a motion the second roll call please Mr Heyman yes Dr hofstein Mr Hudak yes Miss Parnes Miss Rosal Mr Martins yes Mr Stafford Smith yes M Bradley yes thank you all M pay I'm just going to announce it for the record just say formality uh application number two a Partners LLC uh preliminary final site plan 918 with use variance 3497 block 291 lot 79 and 10 uh location is uh 1 7 West comod or Boulevard this application is being carried uh by way of vote uh of the Zoning Board of adjustment to the um January 15 2025 meeting of the Jackson Township Zoning Board of adjustment no further notice will be required the applicant is wave time through February 25th 2025 thank you for your courtesies thank you good night thank you with that Madam chair I believe the announcements for this evening are concluded all right we're going to swear on our professionals Now ladies and gentlemen thank you for raising your right hand do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony information questions or comments that you're about to present before the board will represent the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes yes if you would please State your names uh and provide your positions with the board Evan Hill Board engineer Ernie Peters board planner Gina Tumalo assistant zoning officer thank you okay we are going to move forward to applicant number three coastal Classics amended site plan 473-2222 Mr P other Mr Pape yes uh good evening uh board members board professionals my name is Jared Pape I'm attorney with the firm of hurn Pape and our office represents the applicant uh Coastal Classics before we begin I would like to confirm that the notices we provided were satisfactory for this application for the board to hear this application no so yes so confirmed thank you no properly noticed thank you may we proceed please do okay um this application is for amended site plan with use variance relief uh Coastal Classics operates an automotive uh restoration business in a small industrial complex where they've been located and operating for 14 years and it's worth noting that unlike a typical auto body shop with high volume um operations they this business specializes in restoring classic specialty vehicles and the projects are often uh very detailed time sensitive often taking up to one to two years to complete you'll hear more in testimony about the operations of the business but I thought that was worth noting um the applicant is seeking permission to install a paint booth within their building to expand their services and offer painting Services vehicle painting services to their clients um because painting of Vehicles is not a permitted use we are requesting use variance relief the proposed site improvements are minimal since the paint booth is entirely located inside you'll hear more in testimony um that again the the site improvements are mostly limited to the actual installation of the overhead door some fire striping in front of that door as required by the Fire official and the relocation of a couple of parking spaces um testimon in support of this application this evening will be provided by Ryan Mahoney who's an representative of the applicant Michael and Tilly the applicants professional engineer and Allison coffin the applicants professional planner excuse me Mr P one second yeah any discussions please outside it's distracting the board from the application before it Steve rasi is also present he's the applicant's architect although I don't intend to have him provide any direct testimony although he's available in case there's any questions um so with that as the introduction unless there's any questions at this time um I would ask Mr Mahoney to the sworn so he could provide an opening statement to the board I was looking for him good even good evening Mr Mr Mahoney how are you I'm going to swear you in okay if you would please raise your right hand sure do you solemnly swear affirm that the testimony information questions or comments that you're about to present before the board will represent the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes thank you very much if you'd please state your name and provide your affiliation to this application uh my name is Ryan Mahoney and I'm the owner and founder of coastal Classics thank you very much and I've asked Mr Mahoney just to provide a statement um an overview of his business and the operations so I'll pass it off to Mr Mom uh well as Mr Pape said uh we've been here in Jackson for 14 years uh we're an antique auto restoration shop uh which basically means that we work on exclusively antique cars uh which is 25 years or older uh our oldest is actually 1935 and our newest is 1991 uh these are generally full Restorations where we take apart uh every nut and bolt of a car and uh make it look like new again uh so they're massive projects that take a long time uh it's not a production shop where like you see with a body shop or a mechanic shop uh this is uh we focus on a handful of cars for a lengthy period of time uh so we're looking to expand into be able to offer our paint in house uh where previously we weren't able to do that and which would greatly greatly benefit us uh it's it's one of those things where it's come down to we we got to do it in house uh so we we have uh six employees and we end up uh most of the cars come to us via uh transport you know they're arrive via enclosed car hauler so it's uh uh these are special cars they're sometimes big big dollars so um I'd be happy to answer any questions that you might have regarding our business sorry I'd have one so as far as volume right you said would you say monthly maybe you would need to paint two or three times like how much usage would this get uh we haven't even painted for since probably May the last time we had to paint something and and uh so it doesn't get it's not a high volume at all but it's it's when it's time to do it it's critical it's the main thing that you look at when you see a car okay so yeah it's uh uh yeah you know and it's just uh but yeah it's part of the operation and it's the last thing we do so right right okay through the chair um I just want to know I see that in your statement of operations it says you have six employees is that including yourself no no I I I would guess I would be number seven okay uh approximately how many vehicles do you have currently have or on average do you have at the facility on a day-to-day basis around 15 or so so what I see is that if it's about 15 it could be obviously a little more a little less uh plus an additional seven vehicles for everybody that's coming to work there we're dealing with 20 plus parking spaces that are sort of necessary now you can have some of them that are inside yeah I apologize I should have clarified that the vehicles we work on are are stored inside as I mentioned earlier these are pretty high dollar Vehicles depending what it is plus the work that we put into them uh you know you're talking anywhere from 100 to2 200 $300,000 so the vehicles we worked on get kept inside uh especially because part of the process is that you you take the car down to Bare m and you simply cannot put it outside or it will Rust in about 2 seconds so it's a uh so they they all kep so outside is we seven parking spaces that we need for myself and my my guys right so I'm just trying to understand what the parking how much parking is really necessary for this operation to operate properly um you're telling me that you know you have about 15 Vehicles I'm assuming that not all those are parked in inside is that correct yeah well that's what sometimes a car will arrive over the weekend if it breaks like during the summer is the prime time for antique cars so everybody takes their car out and if a car breaks down over the weekend it gets I come in Monday morning and surprise there's a car waiting so it does happen where we didn't expect a car to arrive and it uh it shows up but we try to minimize that but at the same time you know we want to take care of our customers and you know be accommodating to them I'll ask Mr Mahoney to elaborate but it's my understanding that once the vehicles are enter the building um depending on the project at times they could be put on casters which makes it very easy to essentially move the the vehicles around so they could be stored very efficiently is that yeah we use uh wheel dollies uh to move the cars around the shop to various positions uh we don't really again we don't like to take them outside part part of part of not taking them outside too as I mentioned is you know I don't want to uh be redundant but that they're high dollar Vehicles so you don't want to draw attention to what it is you want to keep that matter you know somewhat safe uh you know not that we've ever had an issue knock on wood but still you know it's we we want to protect our customers cars we'd also be happy to address parking further in Mr inti's uh testimony this site has been fully developed for quite some time now I think a couple of decades and Mr Mahoney's operation in particular as one of the tenants has been there for 14 years but I know Mr until he can speak to the parking requirements and no I I I understand that and I appreciate the clarification um my concern though is is that from what I'm understanding is that once the vehicle starts being worked on it's not exiting the garage uh until then uh I did do a site visit and I've seen multiple Vehicles double parked parked if you want to say it illegally um probably in a fire lane and from what I see proposed as moving two parking spaces and giving them two other ones I don't believe that that's going to make the situation any better as a matter of fact I I'm not sure exactly um but it could be that the proposed two spots are already being used meaning they may not be officially for parking but there's a lot more vehicles that are not being Park in parking spaces um that's why I want to know the numbers and whether they're coming and going if that's going to satisfy well on on nice weather days we will move cars outside without a doubt and it's uh again during the summer you know which is pretty much right now the prime time for cars is like the summertime here so if we get inundated with cars we keep them inside at night and sometimes during the day we do move them out so thank you yeah and again we'll we'll touch on parking requirements further in Mr and's testimony the chair I'm sorry um do you currently provide a paint shop service to your customers or do you do you do you sub that out well we were for a long time renting a paint booth from a family friend and so we ended up uh their business closed down this year and so now we're out of straits so so we're we're going to end up uh this is why we we initiated the process and to begin with was to be able to do it inhouse versus subcontract it out it's getting to the point where uh we've been doing metal work all summer uh and so we end up uh we're going to come close to need to paint and at that point we'd have to sub it out it but the the painting service wasn't done on premises it was done in somebody else's yeah it was done at a a friend's body shop so the paint booth itself could you explain to the board what a a paint an internal paint booth consists of and the type of ventilation and protection and oh yeah so a paint booth is exactly what you think of it is you know it's a metal box that basically filters out the paint uh in the back of the the booth uh there's filters uh so it it sucks out all the fumes uh it stops all the harmful particles from getting into the Asal air uh and then the paint booth filters they're taken care of by a company called Safety Clean so they would come and uh do away with the filters and change them out as needed uh so the basically from the outside of the building all you're going to see is an exhaust stack and that's it it's uh uh as far as anybody even knowing it's there it's unless you know what that is it's you can't even see it it's entirely inside the building so the the three big ones uh in well everywhere is uh one is the fire department they're going to make sure that we have a sprink system in place and that gets checked annually and then there's and there's the department of environment Environmental Protection so so it does get checked by all sources it very much has to be up to code otherwise you're uh you can face Hefty Hefty fines so yeah through the chair I just have a question is there a what how do I want to word this this seems like a specialized need would that be fair to say it very much is like there's not many people I could probably count on one hand how many people in the state actually restore ant cars professionally uh so it's a very limited uh field and so as far as what we do it's it's very high-end high quality uh this isn't the Earl shy $25 paint your car this is uh uh it's I hesitate to say but it's it's like $50,000 to paint a car I would presume and and again and these are more questions but I'm going to it's going to say sound like I say I i' presume that the the paint that you use is probably a specialty type of paint it yeah so basically because everything we do so an ANC car the whole reason for doing this is that it's of sentimental value uh it means more to you than the money you're going to put into it everybody has some sort of memory most of our customers have some sort of memory you know that it was their dad's car mom's car it was a high school car it was whatever so this isn't a car that just gets turned around this is a car that gets kept in the family for Generation to generation uh one of our cars uh was a 1950 mgtd uh that the customer got from his dad when he was brand new he's still with us thankfully uh met his wife on the side of the road with it uh he was a little bit older she was 19 pulls over says you want to go for a ride she hopped in they got married and ever since you know and so you get we get tasked with the the duty and the responsibility of restoring the car and as such you know we put a lot of effort into it the paint we use uh I'll give you an example the red on that car particularly is about $1,200 per gallon so one we have to be very uh one of the things that we actually use and this is part of the investment on our end uh is a paint gun uh our paint guns are very expensive because they have a high transfer rate uh the top-of-the-line paint guns the ones we use have a transfer efficiency rating of 65% or more meaning that 65% or more of the paint gets onto the car and so it's uh very important not to waste materials and not to uh do you know Let it go up into the air essentially so or into the filters so given the fact that this is sort of a Specialized Service that you provide to you know again it it provides you know a service to people who are in into classic cars and and um I guess my question is is are there any other paint facilities in the surrounding area that you're aware of that does this kind of work or where would the nearest kind of not not to the not to the level that we do and that's the issue so the higher the dollar of the paint and this is part of the this is why we want to do it ourselves is to be able to control the uh the quality of it the higher the dollar the paint it's more that's inside the paint so if you look at your average car you might not see it might look somewhat Bland if you look at a lot of collector cars they pop you know they have a lot of pearl in it which is adds to the expense uh to the expense of it and it's uh uh so and and part of that Pearl in there or the flake in there that's in these paints is that it's difficult to apply so if you don't apply it correctly you can end up with striping uh and and it's very veryy easy to do uh and then there's also the mill thickness and this is uh so paint when you put it on a car uh you have your primer your color then your clear that goes on top of it the clear provides a UV protection and so and part of that uh thickness is providing protection from the Sun so the paint won't fade and part of the thickness is also that the uh that you have room to take care of it as time goes on that you can sand it and color and buff it and pop polish it and wax it uh because if it's too thin then it's game over uh you know and so part of that is that if we can do it ourselves and only ourselves you know we'll maintain that quality forever uh you know versus having to trusting somebody to do it which isn't going to happen it's a the thing is about a body shop and there's nothing wrong with a body shop it's just the average body shop you know the average person keeps their car for 5 to seven years so if that you know with relases now it's it's much shorter so so a body Shop's job is designed to be their quality is designed to be much shorter they don't they don't they're not intending for 50 years handing down to generation to generation so you know that's where we come in and and we're able to provide that uh or control that quality within the house I promise all of those questions were actually related to the application but I'm also just very interested because it's cool thank you for thank you for that you you're obviously very knowledgeable I I appreciate the explanation no thank you thank you uh just one more question is this pain business um to expand the current business or is it just to provide additional services to your existing customers well both so like as I mentioned earlier that we had to do it uh outside a house we had to rent a booth and so that meant that I was doing it because we were doing it on the weekends when they were closed so in order the the idea is to be able to bring it in house and then I can have somebody else do it you know cuz I don't want to come in on the weekends anymore I'm getting older I'm tired so it's uh I work a lot during the week so yeah I'd like to be able to do it inhouse we'd like to be able to hire another painter specifically to do it and also it also requires prep people and finishers as well uh generally with Restoration in order to get the best results you have to have specialized people so we have a guy that does mechanics a guy that does upholstery a guy that does metal Etc and so and the same thing that applies to the body that you know and the paint is that you know we're going to have people that specialize in it so you know we will be adding uh at least one if not two more people so thank you no no it's with restoration the reality is is that you put more money into them than they're actually worth uh it's a hobby and uh uh if I could do it and make money I would never have customers so it would be uh I just do it for myself and be done with it but yeah it's it's the reality is it's it's all for customers so just check if I could just I just wanted to piggy back off all the questions that you got from Mr Murphy and make it clear for the record so even when you were going outside you were simply renting a booth you were doing it that specialization yeah right you were always so it's not like even if you to go outside all you're going to do is rent another Booth you still have to be the one doing it because you got to guarantee that quality well the the thing was is that that was a very special circumstance that was a longtime family friend somebody that my it was my dad's car club buddy that his sons took over the shop that I knew for I've known since I was 10 that you know involved with the car clubs and that was a special situation I I don't know anybody else that I could possibly rent a booth from and and so yeah that's we we're we're about to be that's where we're going we're going to end up having to sub it out and and now I'm going to have to put my trust into somebody else's work so and you couldn't guarantee it to the customer especially if they're paying so much if you're subing it out to somebody else who so so the big thing about a paint job is that the the paint as I mentioned earlier is the painting part isn't isn't the big part of it it's a very small small part of it the foundation of a great paint job is all the body work and the metal work and everything that goes into it that's what makes it flat and and so you know you spend months and months and months uh where you're sanding and welding and grinding and blocking and everything and getting it perfect and and now I'm going to have to if I don't get the booth I'm going to have to hope that somebody takes this $1,200 gallon paint and it takes two gallons to paint a car and I hope they get it right and if they don't and and here's the funny thing about paint well not funny I guess is that you can take a $7 aerosol can spray it on the ground and it'll stay there for years you take a $1,200 gallon of paint and you you prep it like anything you clean it you have every your lines are all filtered everything's filtered and you're in a suit and everything else and if it's the conditions aren't perfect that paint could live lift and uh and it doesn't always lift right away it can lift uh down the road it could crack it shrinks so it's it's crucial that you know we control the prep of it that we control the cleaning of it and then the application of it yeah okay thank thank you I appreciate that yeah I think my point was simply that it's not something you can just go find outside and have it done outside no it's not that simple specialty yeah thank you I did have one more question for you if you if you'll just entertain me for a minute um is this a high you know in terms of of car rest I'll be I'll be frank my my experience with car restoration I one of one of my um uncles owns a an old real small British sports car and he's like a British sports car he lives in wall um you know so that's my experience but it's it's a beautiful car I I don't get it but um is this is this area specific Bally like the Jackson Freehold you know sort of centralized area Tom's River is this a big area for for classic car collectors or uh well we have about a year and a half waiting list so yeah so the thing about restoration is because it's so specialized uh and this is without advertising this is largely Word of Mouth uh is that you know if you develop a good reputation which thankfully we have uh you know people find you and so it's uh uh you know because they want to go to people that they know they're going to take care of their car I've had people enter our waiting list for something very very small that you know and I and I've even referred them like oh you can have you can send it off here and and they'll take care of you no I just want to wait like all right and uh and they do so it's uh uh so yeah we we have a quite a large waiting list and people that uh and it's ongoing it's it's almost always happening the cars I mentioned where they get dropped off during the summer those are our uh past customers if they experience an issue we tell them just you know hey just bring it in the problem with machines is that they break you know they uh uh they're old you know and so they they come in you know when as they needed but uh for the most part yeah people are waiting to get in so I mean it would be it sounds to me and again I'm I'm I'm just trying to characterize this it sounds to me that you're like you're providing a a service that is sort of specialize and but but in in in some sort of high demand and you're kind of bringing in business from all around not just Jackson no yeah it's throughout the state I mean I've had customers as far as the Netherlands so it's uh yeah so yeah it ends up uh cars got shipped to us from uh we just actually had a car shipped to us from Florida so it's uh we're working on a 1947 Ford Sportsman which is a a wood bodied uh vehicle uh and because it's on our website and they saw it uh they they wanted us to do their car and so it just got shipped up to us from there so yeah it's it's it's a very uh high-end specialty type of thing where very not many people actually do this type of work a lot of it too is it's it's a knowledge base it's I've dedicated my life and career to doing this it's just it's a passion I love antique cars I I always have and uh so to find somebody that actually do does this type of work and actually can do it well and and knows what they're doing it's just far and few between it's it's I could tell you I could spend all night telling you stories of disasters that come to the shop that other people tried to fix so it's some of them are horrendous I could listen to you all night but I I'm pretty sure the board would be upset so we're not going to do that yeah so I have a I have a question um forgive my ignorance because I know nothing about classic cars absolutely um you mentioned how expensive the paint is and I recognize it's an investment and I realize classic cars are very expensive so the paint obviously is very special paint does it is in any way would it affect the surrounding area the B the smell the odor anything like that no you won't experience anything that that's part of the the filtration of the booth you know that it's uh uh the filters they they take care of everything and and again that's part of the transfer efficiency of the paint guns as well that uh uh minimizes what goes through the filters even to begin with but it's also regulated how high the exhaust has to be so it's uh uh yeah nobody's going to even nobody's going to even know it's there really except for us so unless you look up and you see it but you're not going to smell anything and just to piggy back on that question you may not know this I I'm just curious based upon that particular question it's a followup is the type of paint that you use any more harmful than regular auto paint or is it just simply a different kind kind of paint no no it's it's it's well it's all generally the same uh because all that is also regulated by uh D and things like that it's just it's a uh paint has what's called uh voc's volatile organic compounds and so they have to uh adhere to that manufacturer and and the paint we use is uh PPG uh which is one of the oldest paint companies around and also one of the more prominent ones so uh it's a higher quality paint by all means chair Mr there's one more question uh you mentioned before you have a year and a half waiting list is there a reason why you don't get a larger location so you could accommodate your customer base quickly or is it specific because you know when you have that kind of waiting database makes people want to use you even more so so there there's two issues with uh the restoration business and and all of business in in New Jersey one is that property is very very expensive so it's uh uh to buy a large large building uh it takes a lot of money and the second part is that as I mentioned earlier everybody that works here is specialized this isn't like a movie theater where anybody can scoop popcorn uh the guys that know how to do this uh are far and few between as well and they're very very talented they're Craftsmen you know so they you know as much as you can expand and get a large building it's finding the staff to to handle that as well and that's where it has always been challenging is is finding people that you want to find people as passionate as you are if not more so and and and that's you know that's the tough part thank you yeah for the chair yes two quick questions uh on the survey and the plan that was provided to us uh to the north of the building near where the dumpster enclosures are there's two areas looks like two storage containers are located in the in were those originally parking spaces for fac okay and what what what do you what's what's within those storage containers just uh sheet metal parts parts yeah so if we needed to get rid of them we could they're they're not crucial to our operation the other question I have for you is there's a loading dock in the rear of your building M does that service your building yes it does do you utilize the loading dock as a loading dock or is it is it just another door that provides fresh air every now and then if we got like an engine delivered uh that'll uh we'll use the load and dock for that but it's not a a frequent thing so it's uh it's only for that those large items but you're in you're in total control of when those deliveries come oh absolutely yeah no there's no other tenants in the building or so on right what's that there's no other tenants that would have access to that loading no no it's just us it's our it's our building well our building that we leased and it's been us for the last almost 15 years okay I think if I I like to hear the testimony from your engineer regarding parking uh but if it came down to the board was concerned about parking U I think you indicated those storage containers could easily be moved easily yeah I mean they could be out in a week or that or that some or that some parking spaces may may be in uh installed in front of the loading dock for maybe your staff that that that way that way if when a delivery comes all you have to do is temporarily move out of the way you get your engine and they can park right back there yeah and that's fine with us okay yeah so I think I think from the board standpoint there's options any additional questions all right well thank you so much everybody I appreciate your consideration thank you I thoroughly enjoyed that and I think that um no pun intended but probably painted a good picture of the operation of coal Classics which I think is an important aspect to this application um so our next witness will be Michael Tilly ask that he step forward and be sworn good evening Mr an it's nice to see you if you would please raise your right hand do you Solly swear airm that the testimony information questions or comments that you're about to present before the board will represent the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do thank you very much if you would please state your name provide your affiliation and your credentials Michael be in Tilly professional engineer professional planner um I'm a principal with Crest Engineering Associates in Tom River and Millstone preparing site plan subdivisions for about 25 years uh industrial commercial residential projects um and provided testimony at this board a number of times and uh throughout the county for sure board accepts your thank you thank you if we could put first exhibit please uh it says display site it's a rendering it shows the overall site yeah that's it thank you so we're located on the north side of Faraday Avenue Northwest side um obviously an industrial park um we're in the industrial Zone 2 . 31 Acres surrounding us as industrial zoned and developed properties uh to really North Southeast uh across the way is the golf course on the site um are three buildings you see there these are metal buildings about 14 ft in height um it comes with the typical uh improvements associated with the industrial park the curbing um the lighting the Landscaping stor waterer management so forth the access as you can see is the one drive through out to Faraday um we talked about parking Ryan uh talked about parking a little bit and I'd like to get into that if I may we did look at the overall site in terms of parking we went back to the site plan that was approved um the total square footage of the three buildings is 15,400 square ft uh the ratio for warehouse parking is 1 per 1500 F feet which works out to 13 required for the overall site um the portion at's office is 3750 and divide out by the ratio there 150 for office per space is 25 13 and 25 would be 38 spaces required per the ordinance um our surveyors when we did the survey picked up 47 actual spaces that are striped uh not quite sure how that ended up more than was required but 40 were provided originally um so there's a little bit more now um in terms of our individual building our building is uh 6,052 Square ft to give it a number in warehouse space at, 1500 um and 1,58 uh office space at 150 per would be 13 spaces required and around our building uh are 13 spaces provided started so we meet the parking requirement around the building um and the site meets and exceeds actually the parking for the overall site uh the parking that we're removing which is the two spaces for installation to facilitate the the paint booth will be relocated to the front of the office and if I could get display uh called display work area H up please so this is a uh a a smaller scale for building two which is our building there number 370 you can see the paint booth which is about 15 ft wide by 27 ft long um the parking that is there in the front now will be removed as I mentioned we'll put a an apron in there depressed curb section we'll move those two spaces to what are called parallel spaces in front of the office area they'll be 10 by 23 ft that they're depicted there you see adjacent to the office uh the two containers that were mentioned you can see to the top of the drawing the north side there uh and then we're restriping some parking handicap on the opposite side of ours um we felt that that needed to meet because it's in the vicinity of our site needed to meet the handicap accessibility in terms of the paint striping so we provided an additional space there and um we lost one space because of that and we uh we know that the container in our conversations with with Ryan can be moved so we could uh make up that space there so net net um with the proposal um of the paint booth and the relocation of the parking and restriping uh we didn't lose any parking spaces and the site as I mentioned is actually overp parked in terms of the ordinance requirement at 47 spaces versus 38 required for the chair yes U you had indicated your parking in your in your parking analysis you had talked you had utilized the parking ratio for warehousing is that correct that's correct yes um my understanding is most of most of the tenants in this facility are probably more along the lines of contractor storage or contractor yards instead like smaller contractors I think there's a plumbing business and so on not so much a warehouse type business if you were if you were to apply the uh contractor's store storage and office space is there a difference in your parking calculation or is it the same ratio well for warehouse you you get the benefit of the largest ratio you're right um I think what happens with these facilities that they evolve into that uh I I didn't think there no denying that sometimes the warehouse parking when it's utilized pretty ordinance requirement um maybe some of the use changes slightly contractors end up in there and may require a little bit more parking um I did mention there it is 47 spaces striped and uh 38 required possibly that's what happened over the years that additional spaces were stripe not sure but that's what it is today I think what you have to look at is uh in terms of um the the uses I do agree that probably happens as I mentioned um are there violations for parking I know that Ryan had indicated to us that fire officials are out there every year looking at his building looking at the parking areas looking I'm sure at the cars and those fire related issues so I would imagine if there was anything significant other than what you typically typically see in the evolution of these projects um that uh there would be a problem that would be identified and have to be fixed so we we have not heard that um it's operating as a typical industrial uh park facility then thank you madam chair Mr anelli um I was trying to scribble quickly when you went through the square footages of the building could you just go through the overall size of your client's unit and the breakdown of the uses within his unit please yes um the overall size of our unit is uh 6,052 Square ft of warehouse and that's based on the dimensions of the building the second building in uh and again the 1258 is the scri of the office based on the dimensions of the office area and that works out to um 13 spaces required as far as uh I think or you mentioned potential makeup of the uh uses in there uh Evan I think was correct it's the Water Systems my understanding is a water systems uh business and electronic surround business they build components and enclosures for TVs and things of that nature and then of course uh our business Coastal Classics you would also mention overall site figures can I bother repeat those for me got them off the site plan 15,400 Square ft of uh warehouse and 3,00 ,750 Square ft of office requiring a net 38 spaces based on the ratios I gave and again these these were part of an approved site plan um the parking was approved all of the facility was approved um and so and so it's your understanding your client doesn't require more than 13 spaces to run his business there he has six employees you mentioned um not including himself self and then he has potentially 15 cars I think he said inside the building mainly once in a while one comes out uh that's what his testimony was thank you yes Madam chair the my line of questioning more had to do with the idea that while the testimony is pretty clear Mr Mahoney respect doesn't own the site he's a tenant in a building owned by someone else so what we can't do is without the owner's permission let him use more parking spaces than are required for his particular use because otherwise someone else at some Point's going to show up at the zoning office and say I want to use it we're going to say well this guy's got this many this guy's got this and you've used all the spaces on the site I think the testimony we've heard from Mr anti and Mr Mahoney takes care of that concern because of the 38 spaces that were approved for the entire tract owned by someone else Mr Mahoney respectfully as a tenant is only using 13 of those spaces and of those 13 the testimony we've heard from the professional and the witness is that they really only need sevenish so we're not sort of robbing from Peter to pay Paul and inadvertently adversely impacting the toal toal parking on the site I just wanted to make sure the board understood that as a tenant he can only sort of control the parking spaces that he would be allotted by the owner of the site thank you thank you yeah the the only other thing I'd add is uh there obviously no additional impervious area here uh there's no change in drainage patterns everything will operate as it is today with the paint striping being the Improvement and the overhead door and the depressed carb section I have nothing further for Mr inly unless there's any um further questions any any waste um um Brian had testified any any hazardous waste like um paint and and the the filters and the residual and such are done by licensed vendors that will take that away uh in terms of normal waste for running a business there are areas within the site for refug containers so that's where that will go no change there at all in terms of the cars inside the building is the storage for the cars uh the way that's going to happen is as was mentioned earlier as well they'll come in to that Northern side Overhead Door primarily be put on casters Tak to the paint booth manipulated into the booth and out of the booth and either utilize the door that we're building in front of that booth for in and out or the other door that they came in originally yes that's correct sir yes sorry uh again to address the parking the numbers are not really adding up to me um we got testimony before or that statement of operations is six individuals plus the owner he said he intended to hire possibly another additional two so we're holding at nine employee spaces um and then I don't know exactly how many of those vehicles are being how many bays are there how many could be worked on at a time how many are actually stored indoors how many are being stored Outdoors because he said the average is about 15 vehicles that they were going to work on at a time so to figure out how many are inside how many are outside like I said on my site visit there were multiple Vehicles parked outside and not all of them were in parking spaces so it looked like there was a efficiency of parking uh so how do we Rectify that I think we heard testimony from Ryan that because of the value of the cars he is trying to keep everything inside and that makes sense anybody's had a classic car right you're you're taking it out on Sunday and nice days sunny days not in the rain I think he would follow the same approach there in terms of the flexibility I think he does need a little flexibility there so as a car is finished it's a nice sunny day he might take it out maybe the owner wants to look at it put it back into the building to finish it I think we have to give him a little flexibility with that he did say the two containers he he could move if necessary I don't think he wants to necessarily do that but if if push comes to shove he has to do that he'll do that so there's two spaces right there that are available for that so do we have like a final number of what you're and I'd like to point out sorry I'd like to point out too that as you mentioned he has six employees seven if he brings someone else aboard eight if he shows up we have 13 so that's five additional spaces that his employees are not taking that would be available to his building plus the two um that currently occupied the contain by the container and then you normally would need a couple additional for the times that um there are deliveries pickups and stuff like that I think so yeah I think the occasional um I know he he drops the cars himself when you you put so much effort in time into that you want that point to point so that you deliver a good product that's what he does um so there not a lot of people coming to get their cars I'm sure they do come once in a while to to see the operation sure thank you you absolutely and and we've actually had a review by the Fire official um I believe he has written a letter I have not seen it but approved it um and uh he he actually did comment on it we made a couple changes and yes so again this is probably one of the most this is probably one of the simplest amended site plans we've seen in front of this board in a very very long time um however parking is important right I on a multi-tenant property like this where you have shared parking that's really what this is right the overall parcel has ample parking but maybe in a certain maybe a one0 it might be maximizing it a little a bit more or have a higher demand it's really a self- policing issue right from an ordinance perspective they meet the requirements the the owner indicated that there's there's two storage containers within two approved parking spaces on that site plan that if in his I would say if from either a code enforcement perspective A Fire official perspective or just the business operations perspective they somebody determines that hey look you really need those two parking spaces to be parking spaces I'm sure he'll it sounds like he'll convert them back to parking spaces I think there's also opportunity back where the rear loading dock is that an employee could park there and except for those times when a flatbed truck might be delivering a motor right so I think there's some opportunities there as well but again this is one of the simplest amended site plans we've seen in a very long time um the only um I had I had another thought I just drew a blank I know I'll I'll move on any additional questions com thank you uh we would ask Alison coffin who would be our fin witness as the applicant's professional planner to be sworn and provide her testimony good evening Mr Coffman hello if you would please raise your right hand do you saw me swear affirm that the testimony information questions or comments say you're about to present before the board will represent the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes I do thank you very much if you would please state your name provide your affiliation and your credentials uh my name is Allison coffen I work for James W Higgins Associates we're out in Ocean Township New Jersey I have um professional planners licensed from the state of New Jersey I'm also certified by the American Institute of certified planners I've had my license and certification for about 20 years now in that 20 years I've been accepted as an expert witness in front of boards in more than a 100 communities throughout the state though I tend to stick to Mammoth ocean in Middle sex counties because I don't like a long drive at 11: at night I have appeared in Jackson previously I think it's been a while since I've been in front of the zoning board to testify I've been here uh quite frequently in the last couple of months but I haven't been reached on another application um believe I was here for a vet practice in [Music] 2019 did I is it cofton coffin like the Box we're all trying to I wasn't sure forgive me this Bo accept your credentials thank you thank you Miss cofen um could you please for the board walk through the steps that you took when you were evaluating this application and provide the the testimony and support of the requested use variants uh sure to prepare for tonight I reviewed the application materials I met with the applicant the engineer and the architect that worked on this application I read the board's professionals reports and I visited the site I looked at the master plan and the development ordinance the property that we're looking at is a roughly rectangular Pro parcel it's got Frontage on Faraday Avenue and the lot is developed with three separate one-story metal buildings occupied by three separate businesses and the subject of this application is that Central Building which is occupied by Co Coastal Classics and antique automobile restoration business the applicant is requesting a use variance approval to expand their business services on site to include painting vehicles uh that they are restoring the application is limited to the installation of a paint booth inside the existing building with very minimal sight alterations including replacing a full-f face curb with a depressed curb construction of a concrete apron an overhead door and the relocation of two parking spaces the lot is zoned iindustrial the proposed addition of the interior paint booth is not not a permitted use in this Zone um General repair shops um for automobiles are permitted but this because it has a paint booth it goes outside the definition of a repair shop so the board would be hopefully looking to approve a D1 variance for this there is no new bulk variance relief that's requested with this application there is an existing uh setback variance for the front yard but that was previously approved and there is no alteration to that because this time it is my opinion that special reasons do exist for the granting of the requested D variants and the variants can be granted without detriment to the health safety and general welfare of the public the special reasons that exist for the granting of the requested use variants in this case is that the site is particularly suited to the proposed use the site is located in an area of mixed industrial uses the principal business of this applicant is an automotive restoration and customization use already exists on this site The Proposal before the board there is just limited to adding a paint booth that allows the business to provide more complete service to their customers on this site rather than phing the cars back and forth to another location the use of this paint booth is infrequent and limited to the specialty Vehicles being worked on this site it is not to be confused with an auto body shop use which would have a higher volume of use and a greater impact to the site as the proposed paint booth is in service to an existing building in existing business in this building and it is logical to locate that paint booth within the same location the site is ideally suited to the addition of the paint booth it can also be accommodated with minimal exterior alterations to the building and the property it's my opinion that there is no detriment that results from this requested use variance the proposed use is compatible with the surrounding area which is other industrial uses the site can accommodate the paint booth with minimal alteration and the use will not generate any detriment in terms of noise odors fire hazard or safety hazards and the traffic impact of the site would not be changed the variance in my opinion would not substantially impair the intent and purpose of your master plan and zoning ordinance uh the paint booth that's proposed um is different from the permitted types of automobile uses in the zone and the omission of it is I suspect to prevent auto body shops from occupying the zone that type of use is often less desirable as they typically Ty Ally include the open storage of severely damaged vehicles for extended periods which is visually undesirable the proposed use here is not an auto body shop the proposed paint booth is a small part of a different type of business one that is a less common Automotive use focused on classic and Specialty vehicles and the ideal location for this unusual use is one within an industrial area and the inclusion of the paint booth proposed within this limited use would not impair the ordinance intent of preventing auto body shops from being located within such an industrial area so for those reasons is my opinion that positive reasons do exist for the granting of the variance it can be granted without detriment to the health safety and general welfare of the public and the granting of the variance for this paint booth would result in a use on the site uh in a manner which is consistent with both the intent and purpose of your master plan and development ordinance thank you Miss coffen she's available if there's any questions or comments I just have one question for you sure can you reconcile the enhanced quality proof and maybe you did and I didn't hear it but the enhanced quality of proof required by in the medich case can you reconcile why the um why this is uh omitted from the zoning ordinance yeah this it's it's a unique use uh painting cars is not permitted in the zoning ordinance because the zoning ordinance doesn't want to allow for body shops this is not that use thank you welcome thank you madam chair I Believe Miss coffen hit all the nails on the head she discussed the special reasons she gave us a statement regarding no substantial detriment to the public good and she spoke about lack of impairment the intent and purpose of our zoning orance and our master plan so if the board finds her argument sufficient she has covered the proof necessary for the board to Grant requested use variant Madam chair uh Mr Peters do you concur with Miss coffin's assessment that the reason for the omission of painting of vehicles in the eyesone is to prevent body shops because they're visually undesired able in the zone based upon my experience in the municipality the industrial ordinance standards were put forth more than three decades ago and so to the extent that they were trying not to have that particular type of use that would seem a reasonable argument we do allow painting in town you don't allow painting in the industrial Zone I don't recall off the top of my head I don't know if it's Highway commercial Highway development I think it's HC but I'm not I'm not sure I I I also can't recall so I just it seems like a interesting reasoning because the eyesone is I mean industrial uses like it's not maybe you know I I see in the ordinance talk about not having retail so I thought that's where you were going to go with it um saying you know auto body shops have a lot of traffic and it's you know we don't want retail type traffic I it was just unexpected so I was curious to hear if that's really the reasoning and just more more about that I have represented a number of auto body shops over the years and the most frequent objection to them is how Messing their yards look I understand I just I could imagine that being a concern in other zones more so than in the industrial Zone and it may be a larger issue throughout Jackson I could not identify any Zone which permitted an auto body shot really okay we don't we don't like Auto Body shs nobody does and I I think they're actually I honestly I don't think they're prin if I remember correctly and and I I could be wrong I'm doing this off the top of my head and there are a lot of ordinances if I remember correctly auto body shops are conditional uses under our ordinances I don't think I I don't and again I it may be one zone where it's a principally permitted use but I'm I'm almost positive that in most zones where they're per where they are permitted they're conditionally permitted if I correctly Carl's been in town since right the 70s right I'm I'm trying to go through I apologize I'm I if I seem unprepared for the question um we have them in town to the best of my knowledge whether they predate the zone or they actually were permitted or got to use I can't speak to specific sites but I know we have them in town Jerry's Auto Body has been historically in front of this board over the last 20 years for site expansions and so on so just to picky back on those comments um if a Auto shop is again if it's conditional use or you know the painting was specifically left out of this ordinance like you're saying so that it shouldn't have an aut body shop if we were if this board was to Grant such a variance would we be allowed to have an A Bottle Shop there or it's that would need its own variance no that that that would need its own variance this this is a spe this is a very specialized request um you know from from the perspective that the D1 Vari variant right uh we have the positive criteria which is the particular suitability of the site which was addressed and I believe it was addressed appropriately um you know we have the um special reasons under the zoning which support the the finding that um it's a benefit to the general welfare uh you know uh and again we we have that enhanced quality proof the an quality of proof is kind of a it's a necessary proof for the D1 variant but it's kind of you know it it's always struck me as a little speculative right um from the perspective that we're asking the planner to speculate as to why this has not been added uh into the Zone um again and it's based upon the the case law is pretty clear on on what it's trying to get at and it makes sense when you read the case what it's trying to say is that every single year the zoning board is required to send to the governing body a list of all of the variances and applications that it's heard and the outcomes and and and the like what the what the governing body is supposed to do is take a look at that and say well where do we need to make maybe make some zoning changes um and I I know we've addressed this on the record before um you know it it's not always at the Forefront of the governing body's mind for probably for good reason as to where we need to add uses and things like that um so so so again the it's the this is this is required under the law um I I I think you know from my perspective um you know and and what what I I didn't hear but but from my perspective um you know I I had a similar thought um as to why uh it wasn't in the zone but quite frankly um I I can't I don't know the last time that we've heard an application requesting auto body painting yeah I think part of the part of the problem is we don't Define it we Define a mobile body shops as a building or portion of a building in which body work or refinishing work performed on Motor Vehicles is is the purpose so we didn't use the word painting they Ed the word refinishing yeah so so again I mean with the with the respect to the positive criteria I heard sufficient testimony that would permit the board to Grant it um with respect to the negative criteria again I I think the testim you know and I'm not guiding the board to Grant the variance or or deny it what I'm what I'm what I'm telling you is what I heard for the from the proofs uh and what I heard from the proofs is is is that there there's a sufficient basis set forth under the positive criteria that supports the grant of the variant under the applicable law um and there is a sufficient basis um which supports the negative criteria that was set forth uh particularly um I know the concern was parking and and that is a legitimate concern um you know the question is does that rise to the level of a substantial detriment if there's an issue with the parking I don't know right that's for you to decide um with regard to uh uh the other detriments I I I think it's pretty clear that these are pretty heavy heavily regulated in terms of what they filter out um and and and you know and things of that nature so um whether or not these are substantial substantial being the key word detriment to the public good that's not for me to say uh that's for you to decide um and again with respect to uh the intent and uh of the impairment of the inent of the Zone plan and Zone ordinance I mean we are talking about the Ione right um so even if it is omitted from the from the statute we're talking about you know uses which are more industrial nature which which again painting of an auto body seems to to me to be um but but again these are these are the criteria um these are the findings that you have to make um that there is no substantial impairment to the um Zone planner Zone ordinance um and so you know again there the proofs are there um it's for you to determine if they're sufficient to Grant the use Varian as as requested any additional questions witness Mr h i I don't think that Mr Peter's point with any permission from the owner was addressed to make sure that we have the sufficient parking well no I think what he was saying is that the indiv Mr Peters correct me if I'm wrong I think what Mr Peters was saying that this individual unit has an established number of parking spaces and that fits that unit he's saying they can't share others but that doesn't mean that people don't do it and they that's he to make it clear that throughout the overall site this tenant under the original approval would have been assigned 13 parking spaces he's the testimony from the own from the applicant and from his engineer was that they use six or seven of them I just wanted to make sure because I think there was some concern through site visits by board members that there were in a particular portion of the building a bunch of cars and you can't assign them to a particular use so if you see 15 cars out there it's because he's the primary user of the building are all 15 his so he's put on the record that he has six or seven he doesn't storees stuff outside if that changes we send the zoning officer out and say wait a second you showed up and said six or seven are yours and you don't park other things outside so I just wanted to be clear that what's being proposed is less intense from a parking perspective than what what was originally approved thank you question we do not sure I think the the last thing I'd like to to reiterate specifically with regard to parking is just to emphasize that Coastal Classics has operated in this location for about 15 years as stated by Mr Mahoney and he uh enjoys a nice relationship with the other tenants on site the other two buildings and I concur with Mr Hill who said that this is as to parking largely a self- policing issue if there were um the par the parking spaces on site are more than adequate for the parking requirement for the ordinance and to the extent that there's issues it's probably most efficiently um resolved amongst the tenants and of course if there were violations there could be code enforcement issuing violations to address those those issues but um this this operation exists today and it really is the paint booth isn't really going to material change the operation of the site um than how it's been operating for for years so just wanted to make that statement Dem question comment I have a comment that's okay one of the things that I I failed to address when I was speaking before and I I just wanted to to to make this point one of the things that I was interested in uh when when the applicant was presenting was the fact that uh this use is is is specialized right it's a need um and it's it's so specialized in fact that he's got cars coming from the Netherlands and Florida um so you know we're we're talking about a use that is is specialized is is in need in the area as well as outside the area um you know and again I I you know when you when you talk about the general welfare I mean those are the kinds of things you want to look at um it's not something that's widely available um and and you know being that the particular suitability the site was addressed um it's something for consideration I just wanted to get that on the record because I think it is um something although we we might not see it as a a benefit to everyone in the world that's not the criteria right is it a benefit to the J is it going to be useful right is it gonna is it going to provide a benefit um and here it's going to you know it it serves a special um you know a sort of a specialized uh uh U um I don't know what the word I'm looking for is but classic car enthusiasts right um you know they're entitled to Services too so so again just just some uh consideration as to the positive criteria all right uh I just wanted to put that on the record for you guys to consider I I did try to uh uh elicit that testimony and I did receive that testimony so uh I just wanted to to get that out there I just make some comment um again I know I addressed the parking numerous times um I think all the other um criteria have been met my P personal opinion um you did the applicant did mention about the containers it's not particularly concerning to me um I know that there are multiple businesses in town that do have containers in parking spaces I don't think that it's proper um if there parking spaces they probably should be utilized as parking spaces I don't want to Bur bur the applicant you know particularly to move them um I do think that you know either zoning or code enforcement should you know look at it to see if it is necessary and if we do or don't need um that parking again if you know just to make sure that there's adequate parking again the applicant did say that you know they are also looking at the potential of having additional customers and it can bring in larger database so I just that was my one and only concern and uh thank you very much as far as need um in addition to how far away they come from I was also struck by the fact that for some again I know nothing about antique car restoration so forgive my ignorant sounding comment here um I was struck by the fact that you have a year and a half weight for something like that I realized it specialized I mean that that's a long time when you you know um so um I'm I'm impressed with the operation to be honest with you Mr Mahoney I have to give you a round of applause I thought you did a great job helping us understand I can't assume that everybody doesn't know like I don't but I feel like I know a lot more than I did when I was reading the application right because again I'm I'm seeing paint booth I'm think I'm thinking an auto body shop okay so I I appreciate the the knowledge that you shared and helped me get a better understanding um so I I agree with Dr hofstein comments and Mr Murphy's comments I think that uh this is a very special specialized um business um I I don't I and Mr Heyman knows I usually always am questioning about parking but I think mrly answered our questions but if they should need to to move the um storage bins they obviously can from those parking spots should there be a need for that um but I am I I would have no problem uh approving this application I have um if I may uh comments as well um I think you know I concur with really pretty much everything that's been said um as far as the the positive criteria I mean I it's it's listed out in Mr Peter's report that it's not inconsistent with the um intent and zoning and and purpose of the master plan and zoning and also that the proposed use carries out the purposes of zoning is that is that accurate to be the positive criteria correct yeah that th those are the quote unquote special reasons right the all the all the purposes of Zing are set forth in uh njsa uh 40 call 55 d-2 thank you so um and I mean the it seems to me that um you know even outside of these special you know reasons that Mr Murphy and uh Miss Bradley pointed pointed out the use is an approved use under the Zone in the zone um and and and the the the use of the of the existing business I'm sorry and um this it seems it's very clear and I think Mr Mahoney did a really good job explaining how this is really just an extension of this existing use he's not he's not bringing something new in and proposing something new that requires a variance it's it's this particular extent it's it's not even an expansion it's it's part of his existing service it's a need for him to carry out this exist the the service that he's um currently operating as an approved use and this particular need happens to need a variance in order to be approved but it's it's yeah thank you so it it's to me that the the way he demonstrated how this is this is really critical to this operation um and really I think highlighted exactly why and how it's it's needed to be done on site under under his you know control and and watch and um and to me that really was the positive criteria of it it's it carries out the purpose of zoning because the the existing use the current operation is approved and this is really part of what he needs to do and he just you know it just so happens that he needs a variance and um the one thing I would say as far as you know the negative criteria I think we're we're all in agreement it's you know it's it's largely inside quality control um in terms of the air and hazardous waste and you know everything else is addressed um parking you know was discussed um and so the the one thing and I I kind of have a little bit of a different take um just hearing the the omission and that um enhanced quality of proof um to me it seems like especially reading like in the uh permitted uses in the eyesone where um there's one that specifically says no goods are warehousing and storage of goods and products is a permitted use provided that no goods are sold retail from the premises and to me that you know omitting a paint booth so as to not have an auto repair shop um become a become a use in the eyesone to me seems more like you know trying to prevent it from becoming a commercial a commercially used site where there's retail traffic you know people people coming in and out um I don't know if that's a proper properly uh you know a proper deduction from that but that that's sort of where my mind went with that so I would think I mean if if you know this I don't know if anyone else has any comments to make but I would be prepared to make a motion to approve the application but I would um I think it would be appropriate to put caveats around making sure it doesn't become like a commercially used auto body shop or you know something along that along those lines would the applicant agree to a restriction that this could only be used you this paint booth could only be utilized by his business for the restoration of classic cars that's that's my concern my concern is and you know what we've I I think have have spoken about so many times on the board is what happens you know after your your business moves or closes you know God forbid doesn't close down your kids will take over and continue it does that uh does that condition satisfy your concern so the condition that he will never use it I think is not an appropriate condition to to place his response is not because it's not with the applicant right but no correct so it will not be used a body shop correct it will not be used as an aut Body Shop the paint the paint shop will be used only by the applicant or the owner for classic car restoration yes is that is that fair yes is that a fair condition yes beautiful thank you very much um also just for the record I did uh make a comment during Miss pes's uh um very lovely uh uh comments uh and what I said was this is almost akin to an accessory use to the type of uh an accessory building to the type of use that we already have um so so that was I just wanted to place that comment since I made it um uh on the record I just uh for the attorney I just wanted sorry just for the attorney I just wanted to clar clarification um if we're making any kind of conditions it's in this application it's in the property meaning the condition becomes part of the here the applicant is not the property owner so he's saying is that his business will not do XY no but what I said what the condition said the condition in the resolution will be binding upon all prior owners what I said was um and yes I did use the term applicant but here uh I'm referring to the applicant but the condition will be that the paint booth will only be used uh for the restoration of classic cars okay thank you Mr Heyman yes Dr hofstein Mr Hudak Miss Barnes yes Miss Rosal yes Mr Martins Mr if I'm allow I'm sorry yes I do that every time Mr St that as a have Miss Bradley yes thank you very much we appreciate all your comments and your time thank you thank you motion to adjourn all in favor I