I'd like to order the June 10th meeting of the um city of Jacksonville Beach Planning Commission thank you everyone for being here um and we have roll call David do here man' Margo Mor here Nicholas Andrews Colleen white here Justin lurman here Justin Henderson here de Co and do we have a do we have any old business no old business you sir with that I'm just going to describe a bit about how we how we run the meeting um so the Planning Commission bases its decisions on competent substantial evidence including testimony provided in the meeting any person who's not an applicant or agent that wishes to speak will need to fill out a speak C at the side table by the door and turn them into the clerk and the clerk is there it's our practice that regardless of the type of issue we are asked to decide upon each member of the public is given three minutes to speak on each item and that timer is here please refrain from speaking out from the audience applauding groaning Etc as we try to ensure an an atmosphere where everyone listening or in attendance is comfortable and pleas silence your cell phones thank you very much um with that may we begin with new business pc74 here the chair this is p0724 It's a conditional use application for a property located at 2118 Avenue South the request is for the continued use of an existing multi family structure under new ownership u in the C1 zoning District Pursuit into section 34 342 D15 which uses the residential medium density one standards for multi family the cic prop continuously used as multif family prior to the current purchase of the owner in 2022 the primary uh structure was constructed in 1947 as noted on the DU County Property Appraisers website the structure sits on a small lot comprised of the Southern 45 ft of applyed lot of record in the B of beach plot the lot was subdivided prior to the adoption of the 2030 comprehensive plan and therefore is a lot of record under the current LDC the property owner wishes to perform ROV to the structure and when applying uh for the permit it was noted that the conditional use was never approved for the property for the transfer um since it's located in the C1 zoning District that's required subject property is located on a lot to the west of the intersection of 8th Avenue South and Second Street South on the Northern side of 8th Avenue South uh as the structure was built in 1947 and the fact that the lot is only 45 ft deep and 55 50 ft wide um along 8th Avenue uh South with a total of 200 or 2250 ft the structure does not have nor has it ever had any on-site parking the current parking consists of gravel parking in the RightWay as is common one both the North and South sides of 8th Avenue South along that particular block adjacent uses include multif family to the east multif family to the West multi family to the north and mixed use residential to the South along 8 that North across sorry uh the proposed use is consistent with the C1 zoning district and the rm1 standards pursuit to section 34342 D15 and has been and will continue to be used as multif family uh similar to the surrounding property uses based on the application and Analysis in the staff report planning and Dev department is recommending approval of PC 0724 thank you Mr would the applicant please come forward and give any presentation please raise your right hand and state your name and address and address is3 Parkville Florida 32 do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give in this matter is the truth the TR truth and nothing but the truth so help you God yes thank you what would you like us to know well I didn't really have like a whole presentation or anything I just wanted to representing the new owners to continue the use that it's been used before um that way we can make some Renovations for the property and get a a deck put on there and just kind of make the property look a little bit better and needed and continue on with it use that it's been my fellow Commissioners have any questions thank You' thank you I will now open public hearing anyone like to speak you after see none I'll I'll close it um so back to Bo session I have a comment I just think that what we've seen over the last few years in Jacksonville Beach and it's been a big public um issue is density traffic parking and shortterm rounds and I don't know that any of those are going to be made any worse by proving this but um it's an interesting concept and there there were comments about it so I think that's something to think about thank you chair disc do have motion to approve second roll call please David do yes Colleen white yes Justin lman yes Justin Henderson yes Marg Mor yes your application has been approved may we go on to PC 824 please through the chair PC 824 is a conditional use application for a property located at 142 11th Avenue North the conditional use application is for a group home of six or more at a property located in the residential multif Family 2 zoning District pursued into section4 4 340 D1 at the Jacksonville Beach Land Development Cod subject property is currently in use as part of Residential Treatment Facility associated with the ties Edge Recovery Services the applicant was requesting to transition the use from its current uh State as recovery housing with temporary lodging and converting it uh the use into a group home of six or more individuals the State of Florida statute 393.063 defines a group home as a group home means the residential facility licensed under this chapter which provides a family living environment including supervision and care as necessary to meet the physical emotional and social needs of its residents under for law a group home of four or less res residents is basically treated as a single family home and isn't regulated by the zoning code anything above four residents may be regulated as a separate use Jacks each Land Development code splits group hones into two types no more than six and more than in the rm2 zoning District a group home of six or less is allowed without a per or as allowed as a permanent use a group home of six or more uh is allowed with conditional use approval as well as halfway houses nursing homes rooming and boarding houses and other uh similar uses uh the current use most closely relates to that of a halfway house uh again it's attached to a larger treatment uh organization that has several facilities in the city uh the subject site is located on the south side of 11th Avenue North mid block between Second Street North and 1 Street North the site has some parking but based on the applicant's testimony to staff the residents will not have cars and the only vehicles that would be present daily would be staff with the occasional family member coming to visit the residents but the site has roughly 5 to6 parking spaces uh with a driveway and paved access to the rear of the structure the site is adjacent to the following uses multif family to the east and west multi family to the South and multi family to the north across the avue north the proposed use will be of a lesser intensity than the current residential treatment facility and should not uh differ in character to that of the other multi-end uses in the area the proposed use is consistent with the R2 zoning District standards and Land Development code and will be more consistent with the surounding multi family if the uh proposed use is approved based on the provided application and Analysis in the staff report the Planning and Development Department recommends approval of P 84 thank you Mr will the applicant please come forward and give any presentation please raise your right hand and state your name and address Jim griffi my address is 207 Oak Street NE Beach do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give in this matter is the truth the whole TR and nothing about the truth so help you back I do thank you so what what would you like us to know that's your I would like to tell you that the way we've been operating that since for the past 7 years is it's been at a point in the treatment where we give them certain amount of let's say treat they can go down and go surfing on weekends of course supervised we have supervised people there all the time and uh they get passes on weekends if they've been there while and they're acting you know appropriately what we're doing is we're changing it to a more uh contained building and we never did the we never did therapy we were going to have therapist come over and do therapy with them when necessary and also we have doctor make house calls there we would have uh 24 hours uh staff there think it' probably be two people there overnight and uh we haven't had any problems this is going to be about the same except more contained how how is it more contained because uh they had freedom to go out of the building down to the beach go for walks and all that that won't be the case now because according to the standards of our license that we have there that we're getting there they have to stay at the facility all the time except when they're mean thinking to maybe to a doctor's appointment away Specialist or something but no uh Recreation away from the building is no passes is the plan to do yes okay so then so that's is it a four bedroom place we have two to a room now we have we have we're licensed for um 17 beds there right now there's two buildings there two different buildings yes sir wasn't sure just had one address on the thing so you have 17 people in there now right now no but we have 17 beds and you want to go to 12 because you're taking it from 17 to 12 yes because we're going to U have offices we only have the tech office now we're going to have offices there where if a therapist comes to do some therapy with a person we're going to need to use that for U office so you're going to have employees there7 yes sir how how often in the past do you guys have um issues there you you know I'll tell you s years ago when we first opened there's balconies on there quite frankly uh we had some of our clients going out and making noise on your balconies that was during the first six months we were there there's been nothing since then no complaints no you know rowy activity that needed attention so when you say they can you describe they they you you say they when I'm talking about our tell about your clients yes I'm talking about clients when I say you know they okay can you tell me about the clients sure they're in addiction treatment they've been they've been detoxed already and appropriately uh coming to this facility after they've been doing well at our Todd's Edge facility they won't be directly admitted there we'll only bring the people over there that would be more appropriate for a smaller places we've got 20 beds at tid at GE detox and residential we're only going to do Residential here so how many rooms do you have well we have 17 beds we have eight we have eight rooms and then one room has one bed that's behind the tech office if someone was having a difficult all evening they would put that person in the one room behind the tech office so they could excuse me monitor them all evening but uh what is a difficult evening because these people have already been to treatment once come own right they're on their second stage of treatment so what's a difficult evening look like they're clean suppose uh they get bad news from home and they need more attention and and uh justfor all some that would be one issue have you talked to the neighbors that are around this location yes we did and we didn't get any complaints uh actually one gu said he thought it was a great idea he lives right next door uh other people have been more less indifferent there was no one that said oh my God no so I don't know I mean that was first made the application it was recommended that we go around and tell everyone what's going on when it's really going to be better for the neighborhood because they won't be out walking around at different times of day won't be happening I didn't I didn't realize you could predict what would be better for the neighborhood okay that's just my opinion I you know it's always important to think about apprciate that can I ask the differences in the levels of Staffing and I'm thinking from um because we get so many concerns Express about paring um will the Staffing levels be similar to what the use that you have now is or will it be different times of the day it'll be similar it'll be actually you know we have to have we have to have two people there overnight we have one or two people during the day and we have our vans some our park we have a van park there and we hav any problem with parking at all because even the people that living there now don't have cars there their cars are at our other fac at our other facilities because we knew it was a problem and that's what it's always been our other facility down on Second Street is the same one so you expect parking needs to be pretty consistent with what you have now oh sure thank you where did you get your funding we're a a probably owned company we we take all insurances we're in network with most insurance you nonprofit we're privately on for-profit company just out of complete curiosity yes um since they're not allowed to leave are most of the clients local people or like I guess is there a draw being at the beach even though they can't leave the facility Well uh we have a mix of local people and people from all over the country uh we have you know advertising all through the East Coast so I would say we run like 60% local 40% from out of town but not leaving it doesn't matter whether they're they from here or not they don't leave the building same way with tid Edge they don't leave the building either in our detox residential place over there how do you keep them from leaving B parner how do you keep them from leaving well if they leave then they don't come back they're not allowed to come back it's not like they're out there and they come back and all that no that doesn't happen we call the next kin and uh if you know if there's a big problem someone's violent or something we have a very good Police Department in in city of Jacksonville Beach don't use it very often but you know we would if we needed to how often would you say you use the police department for violence maybe once every six weeks maybe not once every six weeks just someone refusing to to leave over tell they have to leave Theos their behavor okay so that's not a once once every month and a half you have the cops out to handle situation no if I ask the neighbors what would they tell me I don't know I don't know what they tell you every six weeks is probably uh an exaggeration because I you know I can't recall last I cannot recall the last time we had a policeman come to that location five six weeks ago I was what you been you said every six weeks okay I was wrong I mean really do you have we can look at those police records I mean you know really and truly we don't have a lot of police do you have security on the property we we have our people there we don't have security there that's our people overnight are you people trained in security measures no we don't Lo the place they can leave if they want to but that'd be like leaving that'd be like leaving beaches hospital they can leave if they want to also it's it's no different really yeah they don't live at Beach's Hospital well if they're in the hospital they can leave at any moment Ama but you're saying your people live in the live there yes well there is a difference between that in a hospital well the fact is against medical advice is against medical advice if someone wants to leave against medical advice that's their choice we don't we're not a lock unit we're not a psychiatric unit the difference is if you're psychiatric mental health unit then you have a locked door we don't have any locked doors I've been doing this 44 years I've never worked in a place that had locked doors because I don't want to work in psychiatric units is there a difference between the people that are allowed to leave and the people that are not going to be allowed to leave can you just walk me through those differences why aren't these people going to be allowed to leave because at my level care they're in residential treatment now we have people over at our uh place on Second Street that get the of uh Freedom that I was talking about we have currently at this location because they're at a different level they're at partial hospitalization they go they go to uh therapy at our facility over on uh 12 Street they go in the morning for 3 hours they go home and have lunch they go back at 3:00 for two more hours then they go home and have dinner then we take them out to a 12 step meeting at night and then on weekends if they've reached a certain level of participation they get pastest to go out it's kind of like transition into living you know yeah would you say that the people that aren't allowed to leave which is going to be this new clientele that you're talking about be any more unpredictable than the ones that are allowed to leave no we have the same thing at T right now they're no allowed to leave you know if that makes sense because they're at the same level of care these people will be residential the first level of care of detoxification then you move to residential then you move to partial hospitalization which is a lot more limited and give them a lot more freedom where they can learn to cope with life so this is residential am I understanding the level of care is residential yes I just versus when you reference TI's Edge that's a commercial facility no it's a house as well condo whatever okay right now we're asking for this place to be similar to tid's Edge it be the same level of care is as tid's edge with the exception of we won't do detox there we'll do a whole lot of detox at ties Edge when we have patients in our residential after they finish uh after they finish detox at TI's Edge the ones who are appropriate will come over here that's the plan but they'll still be the same level as the people in residential there a second level other questions for the app thank you sir thank you open yes I think firsta Teresa evening please raise your right hand and suit your name and address teres Miller 1236 Street North do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give in this matter is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth to help you out yes I do thank you thanks really I came here tonight because I had more questions um that I really felt like we needed some answers to some of which have been addressed um but I think in general one of the concerns again is has been expressed already is the general um density and the traffic that's that's going on we try to be a very pedestrian friendly city um especially if in First Street and the proximity to First Street you know could be some issues with the increased traffic um I was also concerned because of the definition of FR home was just six or more and I don't understand what restriction is placed on that I understand we're being told that it's 17 right now and that's what's licensed for but is there the possibility if this is granted to come back and say oh now we want to do an addition we're going to take it to 2530 what's the limit on that um so I I would like to understand what's going on with that and then um saying that this is a residential facility what is the turnover how often will new people be in and out will that move in and out process be disrupted to the neighbors um again I back up onto the the block that this property is going to be on um so those are some of our concerns that we have um the number of Staff cars was addressed um generally the appearance of the property has not been kept to a high quality a high standard um so I don't know if there was anything that can be done about that to try and keep the property in a little better condition thank you do we have any others please raise your right hand and S your name and address Mike 103 North do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give in this matter is the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth to help you got uh yes I do thank you thank you everybody um I was quite surprised to see this notice pop up because this property was purchased about two months after I moved into my home and I was not given any notice that this would be the facility that it is today as were none of the neighbors that I've spoken to so to see this notice pop up now explains a lot the first two or three years of this facility it seemed to be all men in there and uh it was a lot of commotion there were cops called in the middle of the night there were fighting in the street there was people up on the balcony cat calling women as they were walking up and down the street to the uh um to the beach and it was disrupted to the neighborhood so much so that many neighbors were trying to figure out why is this being allowed to be here and nobody ever got any answers um in reading this this policy here the code it sounds like it' been breaking The Code by having 17 beds when they're only allow four or six and you can see that in the traffic that comes and goes there there's constantly buses coming and going shuffling people in and out of there um this also isn't similar to a multif family unit that's on the left and the right or the East and the west of the unit those other units are long-term renters long-term leases they're people that own the property they're there to to build the neighborhood um and so that's the type of community that we're trying to build in this area in this neighborhood of Jack's Beach and I personally a lot neighbors agree with me don't think a facility like this fits in there and granting them the right to to put more people in there could just re could just run into more problems because we've already been seeing problems arise now I will say that yes uh it seems like they don't let people on the balcony more it seems like they switched it over to where it's only women that are staying there but still used to say that letting more people come in doesn't bring back bad bad actors and take us back to where we were 5 years ago where we were calling all the time um so that's just a concern cop cars in the middle of the night with lights flashing into our Windows is also something that we don't like we get it on First Street all the time now we have to get it coming down the street as well um those are just concerns of mine concerns of neighbors uh and we just feel like this should be in a commercial area not next to homes with long-term with long-term tenants that are trying to just live in a nice peaceful F neighborhood thank you thank you sir any other speak one more k please raise your right hand and state your name and address my name is Kate Clifford and I put the wrong address on my card I put my office address not my home address so I'm not sure which one you wanted you can list your um home address that's my home is 420 P Boulevard my address I'm my office is in Jack Beach I've worked with this group for a long long while okay with me one second do you swear affirm that the testimony you're about to give in this matter is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you that so help me yes absolutely thank you um I've worked with this group over the years the building that they've referred to as tid's Edge is a commercial building and um they had a spot zoning on it they've turned it into one of the Premier um detox facilities it sits very comfortably in an off a professional office par nobody even knows what they do in there and so forth they help many many people I don't I think sometimes there's confusion between the the uh the process of helping it um people with addictions get through there's a there's a critical stage which is the detox and not all patients or clients go through detox um and they transition depending on how they do into different levels of care um during these comments that have been made you know is it residentials residential is a term that they use for those patients that are in the inpatient portion of their treatment um one of the things I think that was brought up was the number of people the number of and the number of beds the number of clients that will be in the facility will decrease from 17 to 12 you can limit it it's fine that's what's there that does not include the all public rooms the dining areas the kitchens and so on and so forth but that from a bed point of view that's what they're referring to um parking there are five I think five parking spaces on the site none of the clients are allowed to bring Vehicles there they're not they're not they're not allowed to drive to and from um get family members are not uh are not invited that you don't go there and visit your family member and so forth the typical stay is approximately 30 days for most people and then they transition into another level of um of care which is typically an inpatient and outpatient program um this use has been for seven years has been used this way and it was only because they went in to to downgrade it to a fac to a a lesser intensity um that they realized that that this conditional use had never been granted at the initial time when when they moved in and Christian actually brought it up um there's 24hour supervision um there are not people coming and going the Vans will no longer take people to go for treatment because the person giving treatment will be one of the staff members that's holding group meetings and so forth in the house for only those clients so it should be a less intensive use has more supervision um has less traffic um and you know if there are continuing you know I certainly hear what neighbors say um if there's continuing problems then we are I'm not involved but they are very I'm very passionate about this group they've done a lot of good work thank you ma' is there anyone in the audience who's not filled out a speaker card that wishes to to address us I'll CL I'm sorry sir sorry please by all means come address us I just missed your hand there for a moment sorry please raise your right hand and state your name and address hi um my name is Mike ker I live at 1236 all right do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give in this matter is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God yes I do thanks I would just like to the comments of the gentleman who spoke earlier before the previous lady um I I hear the uh operator of this property com and it sounds nice but um frankly I think this neighborhood is not the right place for this kind of facility I think um probably a commercial area such as the ties Edge would be more appropriate um you know uh we we live in a very peaceful quiet neighborhood and we just kind of like to keep and that's all I have to say thank you sir and please do fill out a speaker card any would anyone else like to address us very clear okay seeing none I'll close the public hearing and bring thee back to the board for discussion let like Christian answer a couple of those questions like the 17 BS and the four so uh the number of residents is going to be determined by both their license and the fire marshal so typically two per uh two beds per room is usually the standard but the total number would be determined get their license and their fire markets inspection so they're currently licensed for up to 17 beds they're stating that they're reducing that so um it would depend on the final layout of the building but they can have up to 17 but they're proposing 12 so they have 17 currently they're dropping down to 12 but yet they're currently by the if I'm reading the code right they only could have six or less currently no they just they're transitioning what their use is which is requiring the change of use so they're going to like they could have six or uh less basically by right right so what are they operating under now that allows them to have 17 they're a different facility B treatment facility versus group home under the St but how is that different than still the house sitting on the street this location I'm I'm not getting your asking right looks like zoning what they're trying to go from is six or less no and they're now they're going into group on which is six or more no they currently have they currently have 17 and they're a residential treatment facility is a different use of theod that's also allowed in this zoning now they're going to a group home which is a different use than so we allow whatever the license is no matter what anywhere no it's a approval process through the board or their staff depending on the intensity of use they said in the report all the uses listed are available as Options under the code um which includes uh halfway houses nursing facilities rooming and boarding homes um and I think there's a few others that are listed in there um they're all similar more intense than a a single family home uh maybe more intense than multi family depending on the number of units but they function differently from traffic and you know potentially hours of operation those kind of things can be different so they're treated differently under the code they're all type of residential in the sense that people live there but didn't the second speaker say that they were here because the conditional use wasn't granted the first time and that's why they came back to get the conditional use granted I don't honestly know I didn't find any information about the previous use um but we're still somewhat Limited in what we can find in our Network um the the property has been owned by a number of different uh corporations that appear to be doing something similar um in 2012 it was granted to RMS residential property LLC and then it was purchased in 203 so it's basically been the same thing since 2012 I think so like I said I wasn't able to find any specific records but the facility has been operating there for I think he said seven years so 2015 was the time that they purchased it Madam Shar again I'm still confused when was the conditional use granted I don't know if there was one or not okay so this would could be the first time in that I mean me back up for that makes a differ I wasn't at the city at the time and I couldn't find any records that said they did or didn't however they've been a licensed facility in the city through business tax which requires a copy of their state license so I doubt they could have gotten that far without going through the planning department but neither myself were had that were here in 2015 so I can't say if it was something that just was approved or fell through the cracks but nonetheless the city has known of their existence this whole time well here's my here's my issue we've heard testimony from The Neighbors about their feelings about this operation some good some bad but if there was no conditional use ever granted and this was the first time I would say it would be absolutely appropriate to deny this uh conditional use absolutely appropriate uh if it if it has been grandfathered in with a conditional use then I would say it'd be absolutely appropriate to leave it and let it continue but since we don't know I don't know how we make a fair decision to the people that live there and see the activities that make them uncomfortable and to the people that are getting help from the company that does this for profit and there's nothing wrong with that that's good stuff so I'm confused on how we're supposed to decide this this evening but the second speaker she said that this came back because they didn't have the conditional use and even though they went down from 17 to six they had to get the conditional use let me clarify if they went from a approved conditional use for a residential treatment facility and wanted to become a group home that would still require them to come before the board so it's not just like even if it was a like the previous one was a multi family that was previously a multi family the change in ownership in that case triggered it but a change in use also triggers a conditional use so um so is this a new conditional use this is yes stand one yeah okay confused so we are not aware whether the resal treatment facility had a the residential treatment facility use required a conditional use is that correct it would have required one yes and we're not aware where they had it I'm not aware that the city forced them to go through the process wasn't that point Mr my point was about whether or not this is a conditional use application and is and it stands alone from what never was happening before that that's what I was trying to Deon is that right Christian this yes I mean every conditional us has decided on its own merits y okay that's what looking for but I I do then have to say that the planning Department's report says that this use is less intense than the previous use I am no it doesn't say that because there wasn't a does it say it's been used as a treatment facility with 17 resents up this it says it's less intense but they're authorized for six or more so at any point they wanted to go from 12 to more they could yeah are there limits well it's less intense in the sense that the the use is less intense a home it's not under the state law and it's not under the Cod the group home is considered a more of a residential use as opposed to a treatment facility which is where they would do things like detox and stuff like that but you're not able to to tell us whether the group home use has an upper limit that they could not exceed for example well the limit would be their license and the number of rooms that they have the number of beds so if they're at 17 now I would assume based on what the the number of rooms they have that is the maximum they could have under the state law and under uh fire code so they're saying they're going to go to 12 that's what they proposed to you you could certainly if you're going in the direction of approving it conditioned at at 12 um but as it stands right now their limitation is going to be physically the space in the building and their license okay so the planning Department's assessment that the use was less intense um was B on both the use both the use and the number of of residents so they're going to have less clients and a group home is a less intense use than a treatment facility less inent to be caused the type of work that they're doing the group is in essence a place where people reside they have a certain degree of uh oversight it's not necessarily a medical facility it's not a resident treatment facility it's not a nursing home it's a place where unrelated adults live it could be for people with physical disabilities it could be for people with um mental health disabilities as long as they're capable of functioning without constant medical attention it's just considered a residential facility a group home okay thank you for clarify Mr chair I think uh Kate Clifford was going to come up and speak and maybe you could explain that the public hearing had been closed that's why we didn't want her to speak because you had your opportunity hearing is closed and it's over for the I didn't want you to think I was leaving oh no no no I I realized it as soon as I said that I'm sorry um going forward currently their with their business model how they're doing it they have negligible parking right they have five to six lots and right now they have a van they have two or three staff people so they'll have four or five cars plus the occasional in andout person visiting whatever that every house um what's to stop them from next year saying all these guys can have cars and now we have 12 cars well the L codes parking standard we go into effect so there are different standards for parking and there's different standards based on the uses right but as we that seven years ago this didn't even come through anybody so could it be seven years before you know anything happens with 15 cardal Street no I mean we have police we have code enforcement I mean I think we're as a department very responsive to those things I don't know if you have this information but is there any chance you have how many times have in there I do not know is there any chance of finding out definitively whether or not there was conditional use in place for the existing use out there you know there was an error made who made the error and kind of leaving it well it's not about who made the error it's about what was the previous determination care the ER was what was what was done prior clear on of how is that something that is sort of determinable in a short time frame or I'm not sure something that's determinable at all at this point um when this was determined to be use or when they got their initial building or um business tax license predates pretty much everybody in the planning department at this point um if it was determined through a interpretation by the director at the time or something along those lines that didn't have to come before you guys I don't know if that's going to be documented anywhere but as I said they were given a business license and that's something that does get reviewed by the planning department so in theory somebody was aware of what they were doing and agreed to allow it I just any details in the system that say specifically when that happened on the planning commiss on that license there's no time signature like because you said it came through the Planning Commission who signs off on it who look I have to have the those records would be on that document he just talked about no okay so we seem to be saying that that there doesn't question that the city of Jackson of Jacksonville Beach wasn't aware of of the residential treatment facility that was there whether or not the kind of all the bells and whistles including a conditional use review um through the planning department happens we don't know and it sounds like perhaps we ever know but it was it's true to say Mr correct me if I'm wrong the city of Jacksonville acknowledged this use and okay it's okay it I mean in essence yeah the business license would have been the only determining Factor at that point if it wasn't sent to the board but yeah I mean in Ence sobody looked at it and said okay you have your state license you have your this you have your that you're free to go and conduct business do they normally send business license to the board no they go through the planning department if we see something that requires conditional use that's how it ends up before you guys either we catch it at the building permit stage or we catch it at the yes Madam chair if I may interject just to make sure everyone's uh is on the right track sir can you just identify yourself sure David N City attorney city of Jacksonville Beach and um Mr Poley if I if I miss speak anywhere on the planning side please interject so the way I read this is uh according to the staff report they they are now applying a group home of six or more and under I'll try not to bore you too much with code citations but it's important uh under 34- 340 D1 of Our Land Development code um in this zoning District rm2 a group home with six or more residents um is only permitted as a conditional use and that would bring us to the conditional use criteria that you have to weigh to determine whether or not based on the evidence you've heard the evidence in the staff report to determine whether or not they meet that criteria and I'm going to um do you all have Cod okay and it's in you know 34231 and there's 11 sub paragraphs that I prefer not to read if you have them but that's the criteria I think you all need to focus on and make a decision based on the evidence you've heard and seen um and read um whether or not that criteria is met so or or or we weigh that criteria to determine whether or not you think a conditional use is appropriate for this property so I think what may have happened in the past is not the dispositive issue I think you need to focus on this these 11 pieces of criteria um because they are trying to get a conditional use for a group home of six or more so this is what our code say we have away does anyone have any questions on that or can I clarify anything that's very clear I I do have one last question though so yeah actually Le do I'm sorry um okay I totally get it for this one what happens if we were to vote it down just that a curiosity are they still allowed to operate at the higher rate because right now we're going from 16 to 12 if we say no do they keep operating at16 so I I don't have an answer right now I want to look at it closer but ultimately that's not what you should be basing your decision on so and it's a very relevant question not not for tonight's purpose totally I mean anyone if let's say hypothetically this gets voted down and and and someone anyone can make a code enforcement complaint if they think that their current situation is in violation of what's allowed um I'd have to rese research that more so I can't give you an answer off the cuff of but I don't think it's that was crystal clear I understand what you're saying I had one more thing um Justin asked about uh parking so for Rest Homes nursing homes sanitary hes condoles homes they all basically have required to have one space for two beds so if they have 12 beds they need six parking spaces and considering that they have basically an entire paved Alle property driveway I should say um and the four parking spaces out front I believe they have ADE parking if not more so any discussion I think we Ked that horse I mean I I considering um suggesting referral but I'm not sure there's anything that we learn from do we have a motion I have one more comment unless someone has a motion the comment um this is the bread and butter for Planning Commission this is these are these are the reason we here and it's a conditional use request which means it's not a use of right it's conditional the number one conditional use is consistency with the goals and objectives of the comprehensive plan and the first page it's first one including standards for building structural intensities that doesn't acquire densities that really doesn't acquire intensi of use that that's what they're talking about so I think there's I think there's something there thank you well if I could just kind of add to that discussion though um under five on conditional use adverse effect on the value of I me it's a resal gr home the city's understanding for years um so I don't think and and I I certainly heard um that from some of the neighbors and I understand it but I think we kind that by do it no we haven't we haven't let them do it that's what we're here to decide tonight up to now that happen that doesn't matter we we can't decide on the so I think number five does have an in my opinion I think there's an adverse effect on the value of adjacent property and we've had two people that came and testified us toight um to the chair without any expert testimony on property values I don't think you can consider that I withw my opinion further discussion we have a motion motion to approve do we have a second do we have another another motion motion to reject do we have a second second oh second sorry may have a roll please calling white object J Den yes yes if I may clarify again so uh motion to reject was it which is a motion to deny so that's the motion on the table so if you vote Yes on roll call you are voting in favor of rejecting it and if you vote no you're opposed to that motion yes start colen white yes Justin lurman yes David doll I didn't hear the motion the motion was to deny the appliation Justin Henderson yes Marg Mor no I do think it's important um just out of curiosity does this go to city council at all you are the final say and never mind I was going to add information for city council because we were told to do that but at this point there's no need so if I could just clarify one more time for the record uh the motion to deny was approved by a 4 to1 vote was that correct I get that correct okay sir may we have planning department report please yes so um just as a reminder uh everyone on this board has to fill out the form one to the state uh by I believe July um that's the financial disclosure form um I understand it is available online you can file online now so that should be a lot easier and then uh we do not have any our applications until the 22nd of July so enjoy your summer break is there any further discussion meeting ised than