##VIDEO ID:PLN8EoLpvF8## this meeting is held in accordance with njsa 10 colon 4-12 the open public meetings act I would like to call this meeting to order Mr Espinosa are there any Sunshine announcements to share yes in accordance with the open Public's meeting act notice has been given to the Jersey journal the Jersey City Reporter Elis yito and posted with the city clerk on Tuesday October 22nd we have the notices to be marked this is B1 for the record okay thank you uh Mr espanosa will you please take roll call yes so I see uh commissioner Brown uh Baron here commissioner Bole here commissioner shadid uh Vice chair aruo here uh did I say commissioner Burns here and chair uh Coyle this commissioner z Oh and commissioner Zuki here and chair Coyle pres we have a total of seven Commissioners tonight okay can everyone please stand for the flag oh my God I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all okay okay bring Bridget can you please swear in any staff members that are in attendance tonight and this rug makes me sneeze you swear or affirm the testimony or comments you're about to give this evening will be the truth the whole truth nothing the truth yes okay thank you um Mr Espinosa would you please advise if there are any correspondence and or adjournments that we need to know about yes so in other than an adjournments in new business we do have several items that have requested to carry starting with item number nine this is case z202 4-7 the address is 659 Jersey Avenue Dave decided to carry to the November 14th meeting with preservation of notice item number 10 case z223 D 0019 the address is 136 Delaware Avenue they've decided to carry to the November 14th meeting with preservation of notice and lastly uh item number 11 this is case z20 z20 whoa z22 d78 um the address is 140 Glenwood Avenue they've also carried to the November 14th meeting with preservation of notice um and then the rest of the items on the agenda will be moving forward thank you before we begin hearing the items on tonight's agenda I have two announce announcements to make relating to time no new matter involving an applicant will be started after 10 p.m. we will have a hard stop at 10 p.m this evening and during the public comment portion of this meeting speakers from the community will be held to three minutes I will ask commissioner Ahmed shadid to keep track of time and he will advise each speaker when he or she has one minute remaining for comments okay our first uh case to tonight is z uh 2024 d55 and I believe Mr verell will be presenting uh chair Coyle before we begin I do want to say this is the first time we've actually had a large crowd like this um it's out of the meeting but early registration for voting is on Saturday so if you are registered to vote vote vote vote and then we can continue back to our regular schedule meeting thank you yes okay what what on your desk there thank you thank you madam chair yeah there you go okay thank you Madame chair um members of the board good evening um for the record Robert verdello from the law firm of Connell Foley on behalf of the applicant um this is a request to extend um previously approved preliminary and final C s plan approval for the property located at two Hoboken Avenue in Jersey City um before we begin though um since variances were granted as part of the original site plan application and an abundance of caution even though all we're asking for this evening is an extension of those approvals and there are no changes to the um to the plans uh we did notify the public of the hearing this evening both by uh notification to the uh Property Owners within 200 ft and also through the Jersey Journal also because of the unique um sighting of the property on the border of hobok and Jersey City we also um submitted um notification to the Hoboken City Clerk and to Property Owners within the city of Hoboken I have the original affidavit and proof of service and mailing that was uploaded to the Tyler system um but we can also Mark this exhibit as exhibit A1 this evening yes why don't we do that we give it to Bridget just okay uh does board counsil want to review or no no it's fine okay thank you um so again uh this is a properties I don't know how many of you were on the board when we were here previously originally uh we received preliminary and final site plan approval back in 2018 in the uh preco days uh we then amended it uh twice once in 2020 and once in 2022 uh those were both administrative amendments uh due to reorientations within the building itself however the um the building itself is still a 13-story building it has been throughout the process um because of the final site plan approval in 2022 uh our period of approval is now expiring and we're asking for an extension during the this period um again because of the unique sighting of this property on the uh border of Hoboken and Jersey City um there are a number of infrastructure uh considerations that are underway uh we've been working with the Jersey City Municipal Utilities Authority um we also have to work with the city of Hoboken because of certain utilities that are on the Hoboken side of the Border uh there's also the rebuild by design project that's going on in Hoboken uh which we've had to work through as well so all that has been a a lot of um preliminary work that has to get done before we can finalize our plans and that's why we need the addition time here this evening okay is there anyone here to from the public who would like to make any comments concerning the extension okay if not then I will close this public portion of the meeting uh do any Commissioners have any comments to make questions okay um can I get a motion I motion I make a motion to approve a two-year extension uh was from Z 2024 0552 Hoboken Avenue I'll second second okay know it are there any staff comments yeah we just uh staff just requests that the applicant agree to comply with the conditions associated with the original approval yes that's not a problem staff recommends approval thank you Mr Espinosa okay on a motion to approve commissioner Baron I commissioner Bole I commissioner shadid I commissioner Zuki I uh Vice chair aruo I and chair coil I oh I keep forgetting commissioner bur sorry I'm just going to look at you guys I'm reading off the list was that a that was a yes yes motion carries all in favor okay thank you thank you good luck okay okay this is a big one okay yeah Jesus Christ okay our next um order of business is case number uh Z I have the wrong paper z20 d43 20101 Nork Avenue and Mr Harrington will be um presenting this evening or presenting to us okay yes thank you uh for the record Charles Harrington of conell Foley on behalf of the applicant uh I do have the original notices that I can provide to councel i' I've reviewed them so why don't we uh give them to Bridget and have them Mark as A1 so could you just give us a heads up and how many many witnesses do you have here we have a total of one two three four five we have five um five witnesses um one one witness will be uh our traffic engineer as well as our planner same person M so where I have my client um we'll will be our first witness then my civil engineer uh then my architect then my traffic engineer who was also my planner will follow up uh and that those are our list and now is it who is the young lady that called me who's in opposition the attorney is she here yes who is she there she is hello much for calling my husband's here with me oh it's very good a young lady he got to hear it yes I was on the subway the other day and I was standing and some young lady said looked at me she goes sir would you like to sit down no not now yes I said no that's okay stay there thank you yes of course it's an stol and that's a an NE e s is and Sam t u d h o l m e and I'm with the law firm of post poock PA in rosand I can give you the more information if you so now how many witnesses do you have um I'm going to have five including our planner Cay ran Camp who's who's there so four um essentially two experts two fact Witnesses plus our planner okay now who do you represent I guess it's really whom do you represent right whom do I represent um I represent the homeowners association of the saffron which is the immediately adjacent building at 217 Newark is its address but it's immediately adjacent the walls will be right adjacent so when and if we get to public comment those people in that building who who you represent cannot comment CU they comments come through you um they they can I I have warned them that you might take that position that not merely the HOA board members but that actually residents of the building would have to put their essentially commentary on as testimony I would introduce them and say who are you I don't necessarily know them oh might introduce them they could give they can Essen talk but they would be technically Witnesses if you chose that and I'm perfectly happy to go along with that I don't think that'll be a problem my understanding is there are quite a few people in the audience from the building I may not have met them yet and my understanding is also there's a lot of people from the general neighborhoods um also the general neighborhood I understand but it's the building if you you're representing the building so to speak exactly I I just don't want yeah I just don't want to hear of not that I don't want to hear but since there's a lot of people here you're speaking for them you're speaking for the building so I can't imagine somebody in the building unless somebody in the building is going to come up and say I don't agree with this right that's a different story but if they all agree with you we we don't need to hear 10 people say I agree well I I would actually for the record like them to put their name and address on the record well they could do that yes exactly and if they have some if they have some area of testimony or comment that I haven't covered I mean shame on me but that can always happen um and so yes rather than pick nits about do I represent the board do I represent the residents I'm fine with that one of the things I wanted to mention I don't know if chuck would agree with this may be a little premature and you might consider it now or you might wait to see how long Chuck's um case takes um again as essentially member of the public I will be I call it cross-examination but you know I have the opportunity to question Chuck's Witnesses my understanding is what you tend did you is have all your Witnesses go and then questions from the board staff and then the public okay the questions from the Commissioners will be held to the end as well as comments from the staff and by to the end do you mean the end of all of his Witnesses it would be the end of when we're finished with hearing the entire case including public speaking okay because members of the public and I think I do want to draw the distinction between members of the public who are outside our building members of the public public who are outside our building have a due process right also to cross-examine just as correct yeah nobody's saying they don't exactly and and but we're saying is that all we're saying is that it's going to be a long night like this why don't we get going all we're saying is that we usually let the applicant put his Witnesses on first and then uh the public can get to cross-examine him if they want if they want to and then the other thing I was going to say is depending on how L it gets because there are a lot of people here you might say and with all due respect we want to hear from some members of the public and then they don't have to come back next time I don't know if that's an issue for them I just wanted to raise it and I think once we're done with all of Chuck's Witnesses on the cross then you can see if you want to do that for the public but it's a way to accommodate them rather than especially if I'm just going to get to start and I'm not going to get to cray then they don't have to come back right that's I'm just putting that out we'd be happy if you wanted to do that then let's get started okay thank you very much thank Mr Harington okay thank you so she start how many you can't put a time limit on her only the witnesses only the public I me okay uh so as you can see from uh the agenda um case number it's a z20 um so that means we filed this in in uh 2020 so we have been working on this for some time uh there's been a lot of iteration of the plans we have been working with with the planning department we have met with the community uh you'll obviously hear from them tonight you know where we have made changes to address some of their concerns I'm sure you know they're here tonight so we haven't addressed you know all of their concerns um but we've also uh been working as they said with the planning department with the city Engineers so uh the project you you see tonight uh is a result of of working with the city Traffic Engineers and and and their civil engineers and with planning and with uh historic uh preservation officer uh Maggie O'Neal um had had a lot to do with with her review of of what we're presenting tonight um and what what we are presenting tonight is it's the property uh we we refer to as 2011 norc Avenue uh it is in the nc1 zone uh it's in downtown it's located at the corner of norc Avenue and Jersey Avenue uh and it's located directly west of the The Pedestrian Plaza that was created within the last few years down down there and actually then extended most recently to Jersey Avenue it didn't go all the way uh to that to that um Point uh initially and it consists of uh it was the former Capital One Bank um right there on the corner uh and it's it has a unique little Maxwell Street is is uh in between Columbus Drive and norc Avenue and in have this kind of uh it's almost like a you know a service Street if you will one way um and then it has a surface parking lot uh directly to the West so that that's your property existing the the Capital One building hasn't been used uh in some time my client does own the property uh and you'll hear from him tonight he's you know this is uh this is what he does he owns restaurants he owns hotels he um he's in the hospitality business um he has roots here in in Jersey City and you know he's looking to create something special here and what we're proposing tonight is a uh it's a nine-story building uh and one of those one of those stories is a mezzanine level because under the Jersey City Land Development ordinance mezzanines are counted as stories regardless of uh how big they are so it's a hotel use um the predominant use uh 72 rooms a restaurant 36 parking spaces and a number of other complimentary uses that I'm going to have my clients speak to um so you're what we're presenting tonight is not a just a typical Hotel you know it's not the holiday in uh as you come out of uh uh the Holland Tunnel um it's this is a boutique hotel that we really think is uh special and and all these uses that we're we're going to talk about if it's approved those run with with the approval and run with the land so it's not you know my client is going to operate this but if if for some reason down the road it was ever transfer these these items would all stay with it so I think that's important because it it it really is something something special um and uh I should note too you'll see during the presentation we say it's a nine-story building but on on the south side of the building it's it's lower uh and uh that's by Design um that is a result of us uh looking at this and trying to mitigate uh this the effects of of Shadows on on the saffron building um that uh that they they have um an here to represent them so uh you know in short it's the proposal tonight is just it's not for a standalone Hotel it's for a boutique uh hotel that that we believe is um consistent with the commercial caror here down downtown in in norc on norc Avenue uh we believe this is going to be a signature building um we hope you do too and and it'll be interesting if if you know if approved because it's it's something that can identify where The Pedestrian Plaza starts you if you're walking down Columbus Drive or you're walking uh you know in um harith Cove you say well where does a pedestrian Plaza start well you know you could you'll be able to see it you know we're not we're not hiding that and nor the building um but it also it's an interesting um and a unique application before you because part of it is is the the Adaptive reuse and restoration know the Capital One building um and these these buildings are difficult to adaptively reuse I mean you have um I'm sure you know you've all been been to one it's either downtown or up on Central Avenue I think monello Avenue has one as well and you walk in and they've got these Grand ceiling you know Florida ceilings and you know how do you do that um you know do you chop it up and and try to create residential within there uh or which kind of you know gives a little bit of a Frankenstein uh you know effect inside but we're doing I think what we're doing is really using it to its potential but you're you're using the building with its existing bulk and existing height so that that's the starting point here we you know we have this building uh that's um I believe it's it's around 50 ft I'll have my architect will address that later but you're you're deal you're dealing with that right off the bat so we're using that and incorporating it into the hotel use and all the other uses um and and trying to create a great a great project but that being said we we think the property and and and the and the building are particularly suited for this use because of its location because of the bones that you're working with with the the Capital One building uh we think it's going to be an economic engine uh for downtown uh and the city we think it's going to be an employment uh driving uh use uh because typically you get Hotel you know you know Mr Cella could tell you and I know from other projects Hotel uses like to have their employees close um because you don't want to get them stuck in a snowstorm you know you know 45 minutes away you need people on site so I think it's going to drive a lot of jobs uh here um we also think you know it's you know in the the grand scheme it's almost like a middle point between um downtown where you have the the grow Street PATH station uh to the east you got White Eagle Hall to the West and this is almost like a connector um you know that you know the west side of of norc Avenue has been developed over the years um started probably 10 years ago with you know the five story developments and the six-story developments and then White eego Hall got restored and you have everything going on up by grow street so this is really you know almost like a connector um uh between the two with the commercial uses um now we are asking for a use variance um for the hotel use because it's not specifically listed as a as as a hotel use uh it is a retail service um you know so that's consistent with the intent uh of the plan and I I say that too because in other other parts of the city in the Journal Square Redevelopment plan um the zoning officer has a pine that you can put a hotel in a certain office bonus area um under the umbrella of of a retail service so you know we're kind of we're kind of there where it's it's it's really really is a retail Service uh there are other commercial centers neighborhood commercial centers within the city nc2 and nc3 they both specifically um permit uh hotels um the nc3 uh although you know this isn't an nc3 Zone but it's similar and that it's got minimum lot size of 10,000 square ft we have a 13,000 foot um lot lot here and that permits hotels up to 110 feet in height uh we think this is probably analogous it wasn't it wasn't NE it wasn't changed to nc3 but I think you you know if you you look overall that this this could very well just be you know mapped as an nc3 Zone because it's consistent with that that intent um uh throughout the city um so we yeah we're asking for for the use variance we're asking for the height variance because we're asking for the Nine Stories the maximum permitted stories is five and and 64 ft in height we're asking uh for relief for uh the loading zone because we're we proposed to have it interior but we don't have an official loading zone but we will have loading in inside and outside of the garage and then there's uh some variances with regard to to the um uh signage but um and you'll see during the presentation we believe the height you know is consistent you know with the intent uh of the height limitations yes it's higher um it's 119 ft first the 64 ft um but you'll see it's the corner lot right right there at the intersection of Jersey and and norc Avenue into pedestrian Plaza uh We've U taken great pains to you know lower the building to mitigate the any any effect on the Shadows so you'll you'll see that during the presentation um and we hope that um you know you agree with us that it's it's a terrific project um so that that being said I'm I'll start off with our Witnesses and my first witness is going to be my client um Frank Cella uh cuz I want Mr catella to to explain to the board a little bit about himself but um and his experience but also all these other items that that we really want to want to put that you know our proposed as part of this building hi everybody do you swear affirm the testimony you're about to given this proceeding will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do state spell your full name and provide your address Frank Cella c r t e l l a 48 manic Court Staten Island New York thank you thanks you want do you want to yeah yeah okay if you could indulge us where we just want to um hook up the computer for as part of the presentation I'm going to start anyway but uh thank you everybody I really appreciate your time I know it's unusual for an applicant to testify but I feel this is much more than just a a real estate development this is a business which is a living breathing um entity I mean it it employs people it um gives jobs and careers um there's a lot going on inside a building like this um it's taken a long time for us to get here uh I think we own this building for probably over five years now but uh during that time we've made a lot of improvements and changes into the plan um full disclosure the building is not historic but we've always treated it as if it was historic um we've been asked because of the height uh by some of the immediate residents you know could you take it down and you know lower the building and that's something that I wouldn't do uh but I also feel that the city would not allow it as well um we have a history of restoring and giving new life through adaptive reuse of historic buildings we put Hospitality Enterprises in these buildings and it preserves them we've done dozens of projects most of which have been um closed buildings that we reopened with a new use and and it's successful and and you know it could be generational that these buildings survive now because they do have an active business that could support them because historic buildings as we all know it takes quite a bit to maintain an historic building um some of the good aspects of what we do like the good citizenship of what we do the the hotel is programmed to have a lot of sustainability within it we have uh things like uh instead of bottled water we have purfied water taps what bottled water bottled water sorry bottled water let me let me interrupt you just for the record if we could mark this uh slide deck as A2 okay yes I didn't see that and if you want to refer to it Mr Cella you can ask M to go to the correct whatever no that's fine so you know free bicycles for people to use uh like I said the water filtration system that um in everybody's room where they can fill a thermos that will supply them it'll have uh kitchen Gardens on the roof that'll help to supply restaurant so there's quite a bit that we do charging stations within the garage um benefits to the city are also uh pretty outstanding obviously there's no tax abatement uh being sought after and in addition to real estate tax there's a 6% hotel tax that we will um collect and and uh turn over to the city um our plan includes components that um will generate sales tax for the city like the restaurant and the rooftop um and we're an active employer you know which I view is an asset to the city um we have um a non for-profit Hospitality school called Art of hospitality and we have a location in Jersey City we have a location in Plainfield uh we just opened up one in Summit and this will also have have a classroom which would be a little bit more downsized but this will Aid in um training and apprenticeship programs for full Hospitality at the site so I view that as a a benefit for the city uh also a benefit for the other restaurants in the area because we'll be training people uh from the area that can have employment there everybody knows how difficult it is to get uh for hospitality um so benefits to the community let's start with the businesses so studies prove that boutique hotels uh generate foot traffic to the local commercial districts um studies prove it and it seems kind of natural that it would studies also prove that uh clients of a Botique Hotel will spend more money than a flagged Hotel um in their stay you know hopefully spending it in the community um our hotels also Market the local businesses uh we run with a uh video monitor in all the elevators those monitors promote the different businesses and the different attractions in the um immediate area we have an app that we use and in that app is a compendium again that highlights all the businesses in the area our concierge team makes reservations at all the local hotels so it's a positive addition to the business district um we also do a lot of cross promotions we do these Lobby takeovers where different businesses uh will come in and show their Wares or hand out samples to the hotel guests um we also uh do you know tap takeovers and cocktail takeovers where local bartenders and local chefs would come in and there'll be a collaboration on a dinner um we also um have a art gallery in the building it's a free art gallery that art gallery is going to be uh a mix of iconic artwork from um the likes of bansy and uh um Keith Harring um and then it'll also have a rotating that be a permanent installation it'll have a rotating show of local artists I mean part of what we're trying to do is to promote the local art scene uh which is vibrant we're not going to we we just want to continue its vibrancy in Jersey City um we also uh have a program where um traveling uh groups that are performing in Jersey City can stay in our um hotel for free you know it's another way to support the Arts um and you know they're in close proximity right now there's there's a few less than 10 minutes and walking distance to the proposed Hotel um and keeping with the albon as uh a core of a community a community Hub uh our lobby and we just did this we just opened recently in Summit our lobby is expand ensive and we make our lobby a co-work space we make it very convenient for anybody to come in and to work there we have a coffee station coffee bar free Wi-Fi we even have some private um conference rooms that they can rent if they wanted to um you know set aside and have a meeting so many people working from home this is a little bit of a break to get out of the house or to meet clients um so I view that as is a um a real positive um something interesting we have an association with The Stone Pony so in the uh building we're going to do a Stone Pony recording studio and we think that that'll add you know we'll get a lot of um established acts I feel to come in and to use a recording studio especially since The Stone Pony itself would be managing it but more importantly I feel that the mission of The Stone Pony has always been to support local talent so this will be another Avenue where The Stone Pony can support local New Jersey Talent by offering the recording studio for these acts the um adjacent to The Stone Pony recording studio is podcast Studios podcast Studios so many people are doing it now obviously it's it's a great way to drive the right kind traffic but we're committed to make the podcast Studios free to local residents and free to New Jersey influencers so that's another added benefit uh there's a pool and fitness uh Center in a uh aerobic Studio the um the gym is a pelaton and tonal gym um that is going to be available again to the local community um and we're trying to define local community today you know is a two block radius but that would also be available to them on a day pass so on the rooftop we have it's mostly enclosed because we're very conscious about noise it's mostly enclosed and it's programmed I call it more of adult programming with uh piano and Jazz and that's going to be the music we're not looking to have something that's going to run late into the you know into the night um so it's it's more of a place where you would go before or after dinner it's not a place that I think you would make a destination there's not going to be um food service so you're not going to really be there to eat a meal it's it's an asset to bring people and give them one additional thing to do in they're evening out so as a company we already have quite a few existing programs that we do and and they're listed in here and I just don't want people to think that these programs that I'm going to talk about are here just so that we can gain support or approval these these are things that we do now in uh most of our all of our restaurant locations uh we have a program called hug help us give and we take 10% of uh the three most popular tables and that money accumulates and we host community events and we give donation checks to local uh Charities uh so that's something that'll be here as well um we also my wife's very involved with the Restaurant Association and when she was champ she expanded uh we do this autism program we do it at seven of our places now um we partner up with a local uh school um I'm trying to think Regional daycare is one that we do a lot with and uh we train them they come in the mornings we train we've hired out of that program but that's something that we're passionate about and something that we would continue with here um we have that nonprofit school that I talked about art of hospitality and that's a great you know that truly is our Legacy is the school and the success of the people that will come out of that school and um you know we we're proud of it how it's grown but I'm also proud of it how we integrated uh the school into our culture at Landmark so we try to view where every position is just the path toward a career uh we even have classes that uh teach entrepreneurship for that step even outside of the company so um you know that that's a positive and I'm proud that we were able to find the space uh to do a classroom here we would definitely do the apprenticeship program here too um we also generally we give our spaces for free we also Supply Refreshments for free we do a lot of this for local community groups to give them a place to have meetings so that's a benefit so I I hope you believe that the claims that we're making on what we're going to do uh are true and sincere and that we do them in other places and I just want you to be aware that I know that any approval that we get these items are going to be in that approval and we'll live by them and the land regardless of who owns it will have to live by them so we're aware of that um I do want to touch on um the process that got us here we have done no less than a dozen different reconfigurations of this project um we pulled uh a couple of months ago from coming on here to meet with you we pulled our project once again and um we did another redesign we had gotten some new blood on our team um we relooked at the shadow studies that we had and um we came up with a plan uh that's submitted now that lowers the Southside by two levels raises and that's why we're Nine Stories now raises the other side cuz we wanted to maintain that 72 unit count and keep the amenities um so the shadow now and and there'll be testimony and as a model the shadow now really mimics an as of right building was built there um I know there's a lot of things in press where the community groups are against different aspects of a hotel um you know I found out very quickly that this community sticks together rightfully so and I I believe there's seven different groups that make it up um you're going to hear talk about traffic uh I'll tell you right now the traffic to this is minimal uh parking um I at first when planning had asked us to reduce parking I doubted it I um I did speak to uh a friend uh who owns two hotels in Jersey City about what his feeling is about traffic and parking and his thing is he promotes valet parking he promotes it in every reservation that happens and even with that he's parking a th000 cars a month for 362 hotel rooms he's back to uh vibrant occupancy rate even to where they were uh preco um so if you equate that down to our 72 rooms that comes down to seven cars a day so I view that more than a traffic study I you know to me that's reality you know um you also you're probably going to hear testimony because we did meet with the community group and they're going to say well you didn't do everything we said it's very difficult in these Community groups um you know you'll have four Architects give you four different opinions you're going to piss at least three of them off you know when you make your changes you're not you can't do everything to make everybody happy um and I I also feel too that because the group is so organized and used to fighting development and you know I don't follow it all that much I'm sure that there's a lot of things that they're on the right side when it comes to that but you get asked things like you know here we are adding all these amenities you know art galleries we're doing an artist and resonance program and you get asked for communities that are block some blocks away we want a park we want a playground we want a dog walk it's it's a little broken you know if you go through the process as a a person who's trying to get a project approved so uh in closing I guess I would just say that the real issue is with saffron and I I agree with that and I I respect that and it always is the case that your closest neighbor is the one that's most impacted um so you know all the other stuff you know viewers noise um the impact on the shadow is what needs to be addressed thank you okay and M chairman we're going to wait until the presentation is over right correct okay thank you okay so then uh I'll move right along my next witness is Mark chis vet he's our civil engineer and he'll get set up one second sure is there there cable for I don't see anybody that's why I'm an engineer all right bear with me one second I despise touchpads so I have a mouse here to help me along with these things okay would you raise your right hand do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give in this proceeding be the TR yes I do Mark m a r k chis vet c h i s v tte and I just point out for the record I've been here a lot of times my address has changed recently if you need that information on the card I just hand it to you is that has has appeared before this board and the planning board number of times yeah we accept his credentials and his expertise thank you thank you say Mark if uh if you could walk us through the site sure um before I go to that um what you're looking at is our cover page and I do want to point out a discrepancy that was pointed out to me earlier today on our zoning table um we erroneously stated the height of based on an older version of the plan and just to correct that um it is nine floors and total height is 119. 73 ft that's that's what's on the architect's plans and we will correct ours to match that that's the correct that's the correct height so I'm just going to uh show you the the key map for a moment just you get an idea of the orientation of this of this uh I'll zoom in a little bit so you can see uh the orientation of of where this site is um Newark Avenue um is to the north of the site uh Jersey Avenue is to the east side of the site and to the south of the site is a is a oneway street goes which is uh directed away from Jersey Avenue which is called Maxwell Street and nor Avenue uh the plaza portion uh of newk Avenue starts just to just to the east of that intersection so newk Avenue going east has has no traffic in this at that on that block uh that's just to give you a perspective of where this where this property is I'm going to move to the uh the site plan and um the site plan's orientation is a little bit different it's turned 90 de so as you're looking at this plan uh Jersey Avenue is at the bottom of the page and norc Avenue is to the right Maxwell Street is to the left and North is is to the upper right um there are a number of site improvements uh some of them are a little uh unusual um from some of the work that we've done in the past and I wanted to point them out but uh two two fundamental uh site improvements that we're making is that we are um actually going to narrow the uh nework Avenue pavement and provide more sidewalk area so basically there's a bump out and on nor Avenue of approximately 8 ft and that will U allow for uh more pedestrian movement in that whole quadrant uh one of the concerns when we looked at this uh this is actually something that was recommended To Us by City Planning in fact and City engineering was involved with these decisions as well but one of the things that was a concern was was uh bus turning movement because there is a bus stop on that corner and we did look at that to make sure that the new new configuration would would not be detrimental of the bus turns I'll get to that in another sheet in a minute but I just want to point that out uh but that allows a lot more area uh in the in the in the actual intersection on that corner um another thing that we have implemented into the plans is along Maxwell Street we are uh proposing um a a raised uh stamped pavement a pattern um and it and we are actually going to raise that pavement six inches so that Maxwell Street the actual travel way of Maxwell Street will be at the same elevation as the sidewalk on either side so as you're Crossing um Axel Street as you're walking along Jersey Avenue there's no down and back up there's no handicap ramps there it's it's an it's actually uh the pavement is flush with that in order to implement that because Maxwell Street U slopes down towards Jersey Avenue we did have to add some drainage to make sure we didn't trap any of the water I and I'll show that on another plan but I wanted to point that out to you Mr chette just for the record was that upon the recommendation of the Jersey City Engineers as well yes it was um and then so um another another feature in in the architech when he gets into his um testimony he'll he'll elaborate more but we are pro proposing a uh raised restaurant deck which actually encroaches into the public sidewalk area said it's a franchise agreement required for that um and that is shown on this plan as you see the words proposed restaurant deck that is is raised above sidewalk level so it's at the floor level of the restaurant itself which is several steps up from the sidewalk um and there is a uh a fairly large U bike rental uh um station a docking station uh that is already in that location and um we're because we're we're uh adding sidewalk area to the site our only proposed change to that is we're just going to shift that a little bit to the right as you look at it on this plan closer to Newark Avenue so that there's uh at least 5et clear of that the bike docking station uh between the uh restaurant deck and the and the docking station and that's that's a a pinch point right at that spot so it's not like the whole the whole sidewalk length is only 5 ft wide it's just at that one little corner and it's not much different than you would see and a lot of uh Jersey city sidewalks that are 10t wide and you have 5ft tree pits leaves you a remaining 5T so it's you know it's a common it's a common element and it like I said that 5 foot minimum is only at that one corner um I'm I'm going to I'm going to um just discuss the trash and and movement in and out of the site um it is a valet garage um entrance and exit of that garage is on Maxwell streets the only way in and out of the with vehicles um the idea it is as as as um was dis uh testified earlier it will be uh a valet uh um Arrangement and um the lobby is the entry Lobby for for pedestrians is is on Nork Avenue side so they would U drop their car off and we are showing along Nork Avenue just before that bump out starts there is we are proposing a drop off area they would they would exit their cars of valet would pick it up drive it around Maxwell Street and enter into the garage some of the garage parking is on mechanical uh uh two level lifts and and some of it is below grade in a me mechanized system It's a combination but it's a total of 36 parking spaces in all and that would all be handled by the valet um staff um so U the general public would not be driving around through Maxwell Street and bringing their car into the garage themselves that's all Alo the area where trash pickup would take place and we did look at making sure that a trash truck could make the turn actually be able to turn in off of Maxwell Street into the garage and the trash would be stored inside that garage they would be able to load that truck and then that truck would back out onto Maxwell Street and take off so while it's loading it would not be blocking traffic on Maxwell Street and Mr chis that will be a private uh trash hauler correct that's my understanding yes um so um it does say that the the trash path is the curbside and and and I apologize for that should have been removed from this plan because it is no longer being done that way it will be taken place inside the inside the garage uh we are proposing um to to maintain the street trees that are there which is why um one of the trees as you see on norc Avenue is not curb side it's it's it's 5 ft in because we are moving the curb out and we're leaving the tree and the tree P we're we're building a a 5x10 tree pit around the existing tree so we don't have to remove that tree um there is parking along norc Avenue now um and we are not removing any of that street parking the the the uh the there are two metered spaces along the frontage of this property they will remain the drop off zone is just beyond where those parking where the uh metered parking ends so the the drop off Zone does not take away any of the on street parking from the general public I'm going to move to the next plan and I did mention this and um this is uh to show the Turning movements and uh on at the intersection you can see a a b40 that's a 40 foot bus that's a typical ashto turn template for 40 foot bus that we show that uh that bus can make that turn even with the the uh narrowing of the pavement and and the reduction of the curb radius in that area so there's no there's no detrimental impact to the to the traffic Flow by by doing that and it does assist in the pedestrians in that area and then the other turning movement as you can see is a right Turnin movement which would be identical to a backout movement there basically it's the same exact travel path and and swep moving in and backing out and that's a what what ashto quills an su3 which stands for single unit 30 foot truck so that that's not a semi-trailer we don't anticipate semi-trailers arriving at this fight for deliveries it is a 30 foot single it's a little bit larger than a box truck like you might see a UPS truck which is generally only about 25 ft it's more consistent with a trash collection uh truck um and um so we're showing that that that truck can go into this garage and and come out again um so um I'm going to move to the lighting plan uh lighting plan we're showing a combination of some existing street lights that are to remain one that's going to be re located um as I said we are bumping out the uh the the curb on nework Avenue so instead of having the the street light set back or 7even feet from the curb we we're proposing to take that street light and move it closer to the curb um it does throw quite a bit of light behind it that's that nature of that that kind of pole so we do have well more than the required 1.0 F handles minimum throughout the sidewalk along all three sides of the site we are supplementing uh the existing Street lighting by adding a couple of additional poles that will match the ones that are there and we are proposing uh wallmounted fixtures along Maxwell Street so that we have the required foot candles on the Maxwell Street sidewalk area um the um the next plan I'm showing now is the grading drainage and utility plan we are proposing to connect the roof runoff from this building and the sanitary uh discharge from this building to the an existing manhole main on Newark Avenue um and we are proposing Water Service uh on on the larger main that's on uh on Jersey Avenue gas will also come off of Jersey Avenue and we we are showing some some uh some drainage along Maxwell Street that's not any of the site drainage that like I said before because we are raising the pavement along Maxwell Avenue um we we we had to do something so we didn't trap run off at the beginning of where that raised pavement starts so we're showing an inlet on either side of Maxwell Street and a pipe with a manhole and going into uh the existing storm system on Jersey Avenue which is where that water goes now so now it just flows down the gutters and goes into the street into kitch Basin at that on that street um the rest of the plans are are details uh which I don't think you're probably interested and that um like I said the a lot of this work was U done a lot of the site improvements was done in conversation with Jersey City engineering uh we have not received a written letter in response to these plans although we did send them a set of plans back in July personally delivered a hard set to them in addition to what gets uploaded on the site but we have not to my knowledge we haven't received any any letter from them we we did forther record we did receive one uh letter dated August 5th 2024 from the Traffic Engineers um and I believe you've addressed all that uh in your testimony but just for the record you you you would agree with their conditions and comments in their in their letter is that correct yes yes sorry that's that's all right that's all I have unless you have some questions well we'll hold those to the end okay mhm okay then uh my next witness is going to be my architect Jose carbo yep do you swear or affirm the testimony or BS are given this proceeding will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do and if you could State for the absolutely Jose carbo uh j o e last name c a r BSM boy a l l o thank you you're welcome Mr carb for the record you are a licensed architect in the state of New Jersey is that correct that is correct okay and I know Mr carbo has appeared before this board we accept his expertise yes thank you thank you we're still trying to set up a little bit here yeah where's our Tech help where did Francisco go see all that that whole group come you're you're the young guy come on yeah that's him we got too many wires that's our problem for a hot second it was just warming up oh there you go okay uh Mr carbo uh now that we're all set up if you could uh walk through the plans for the benefit of the board can you just make sure that mic is on it should yeah Chuck knows just have to tap where it says push hello okay right it's not on back here beautiful building can you guys see it now okay thank you okay we're ready to go Madam chair members of the board good evening Jose KB I'm the architect for the project uh and I'm very happy to be here tonight presenting our project to you um Mr Cella gave you a tremendous flavor of this project that we're presenting tonight um I I think that um in his excuse me in his heart he has created this project that is like no other project that honestly I have a worked done uh it's got so many different um amenities so many different parts to it that it it just makes it a very very uh a tremendous project what you see here uh it's the cage sheet and the coverage it actually shows first thing that I want to get into is the rendering of the building you see what the building looks like uh we are using the Capital One building uh which is well not historic it's historic historically significant and that's something that uh we worked on with HBC you know Maggie O'Neal uh and we will keep working with her uh to get to the point where this building uh is is is an iconic uh building uh as I I think Mr Harington said is a signature building uh but also that it becomes a historically significant building uh as you can see from that the building that we've designed steps back from the facade of the building uh to allow the building to maintain its composition its volume um and and to maintain itself I mean this is what the building looks like we're not touching it uh we're doing very few things to it you start seeing uh on that rendering uh the D deck uh that we're uh extending the building to uh this is done so that we can have a little bit more life uh on the street uh so that the restaurant actually comes out to the street and you can see that there is a restaurant uh one of the things in uh discussing with uh Miss Neil uh are the windows uh the Roundtop windows that we have uh on uh mainly on uh Jersey Street Jersey Avenue sorry uh and and in in pulling that deck out uh we were actually spanning all five of them uh And discussing with her um we decided that the best thing to do was to leave at least one of the windows uh showing the way that it was so that we have a historical reference to what um you know was there before uh the other windows are venly uh being the windows are minimally uh being um modified and this is basically to allow traffic from inside the building to the deck on the outside um wait wait wait wait go back go back the upper right hand corner you see two um photos of the building and you can see how the building basically reflects what we've done uh on the rendering uh again the the only change that we have is that um it's it's the the deck that's coming outside and if you see over the entrance Door um again you know Mr Cella has spoken about uh the art inclusion uh in this uh in this project and we have a uh sort of like a shroud uh over that entrance and this is something that again we discussed and we revised you know we change uh as as we went through HPC uh and that it's going to be designed and um and built by a local artist uh so that that's a lot of what we have in here today is the local aspect of the project and the connection to um you know to the local community uh the lower leftand corner uh you see the um the site uh you see the uh the the streets you see uh Newark Avenue Jersey and then you see um for always forget what the the Third Street is Maxwell Maxwell Maxwell sorry and and Maxwell Maxwell and Maxwell uh so you see that we have three frontages uh so it's it's a very um significant corner and you know I'll let the plan of this go all of that I just wanted to bring it up as as a as an architect uh and as a designer of the project uh those three corners were very or those three streets were very instrumental as to how we do and how we dealt with the building uh in other words this building has three fronts uh that are very important that are front in the street uh so so we're not doing you know Newark and Jersey and forgetting about uh you know Maxwell we're we're including Maxwell in the design intent of of the building uh going back to the ring a little bit uh you're going to see that it has some uh some fins on the outside and you know we'll talk about that later when we see the uh uh the elevations uh but this fins were done to again uh just give it an iconic look uh just give it a uh a little bit more dynamism uh so that the building um you know as again as I keep going back to previous testimony as Chuck Harrington explained uh this would be the Terminus to that Plaza uh and it will also become a beacon where you know this is that now we know where we are and and if we're going somewhere we know that we can always get to this point by just looking at the building and so that's that's one thing that I wanted to uh to bring up on the lower right hand corner uh you see a it's a San of what the building is all about uh you can see that it has a u-shape and one of the things that uh Mr grella was discussing before is that we had a whole bunch of reiterations uh on on this uh on this project there were uh changes there were uh decisions that were made that were based on communication and meetings with uh neighbors and uh commity Comm groups um so you see the dark portion of the building uh that is the toll portion of the building and that is basically facing north uh and and East uh so that the lighter portion towards the left which is that was the leg of the U as it you know used to be a u that portion of it has been peeled off and removed so that uh it's a lower uh part of the building to allow more light um towards the uh The Neighbors in the back okay go this drawing uh was done so that we could show the demolition of the what's going on with the building uh you know obviously uh even even in a historical building there's some demolition that needs to be done uh but the demolition here uh is basically and mostly uh on the inside of the building um the the those four windows that I talked about the bottom part of the windows uh will be removed uh and um doors will be included there so that we can go outside so that will be that's part of the demolition uh I I I think the biggest uh part of demolition is in the lower right hand corner where we're going to have a stair that actually connects first floor to the um to the mezanine and to the art uh uh floor the an exhibit floor which is just above that uh so so that's that's the only portion that we're removing all of the um uh all of the uh the Coffer uh the Cofer work that the ceiling has coford C FF R um work that the ceiling has will be maintained uh we show a chandelier to be demolished now that chandelier is going to be relocated not demolished uh those are historicals or you have historical significant so whatever we say from here we're we're going to we're going to use uh with the building or within the building the next one please this next drawing uh is and no the previous one the other yeah okay okay so so this drawing shows uh the site uh it shows what we're doing with the building uh and it shows uh older green areas that the roof is going to have um that I guess the engineer in in you know detail will get into this or has gotten into it but uh we're trying to maintain most of the water runoff within the building and this is what the uh the green roofs uh will actually strive to do uh in it you can see the the uh L shape of the taller part of the window and that green area on the left side that is the lower area um of the uh the project so now we get into the uh the floor plans um I like to start with the ground level which is the uh Center drawing on the uh upper okay which is the center drawing uh on the upper upper uh row of drawings and you know it's ground level ground level s plan um okay um so so you can see the shape of the bank uh that is that a rectangle that's um to towards the bottom uh of the drawing closer to uh Jersey Avenue uh again that it's going to remain intact yes some work is going to be done to the inside but the walls on the outside the exterior of the building is going to remain basically as is uh that's going to become a restaurant um it has a mezzanine and that mesine is going to become part of the restaurant as well and that you know we'll get into into the next drawing towards the back of the uh uh the existing building I think the engineer went through uh how we're going to remove the trash uh we have the trash containers inside the building now uh as opposed to what we had previously uh and you're going to see four rectangles um between the stair and between the two stairs those are stackable uh parking spaces those are two uh stack uh top and bottom uh so that you have a parking spaces there um again there's going to be valet Personnel uh who will take care of all this parking and and you know several uh of the movements that will be happening within that uh that space uh you also see uh towards the top of the uh the drawing you you see uh a handicap space uh this is mostly in case uh there's obviously a handicapped person uh that has a high uh van uh that needs to be parked somewhere so this is where that's going going to go um right next to it you see what's called a turntable and that is where uh you now have um it's almost like an elevator that goes down into the basement and if you go to the drawing on the left hand side uh you're going to see the parking that is in the basement and this is robotic parking uh nobody goes there uh one stair goes down and that's mainly for servicing in case you know anything happens uh but there there are no humans that need to go there uh to mobilize those cars um so the and that shows the back of the building front of front of the drawing is the existing building so this is the lower level of the building and its access through the entrance there um that if you go to back again back to the ground level site plan uh we're leaving that round entrance if you see to it it's almost like we're mentioning Maxwell Smart it's like almost like that it actually uh slides closeth uh it's it's really a a very interesting uh way to get into the building so you go into it and there's a stair that actually goes up to either the restaurant or down into that lower level and the lower level is where you have the kitchen uh which Services the restaurant as well as a hotel uh it also has what we showed here as assembly space and and that's the um that's the teaching area that Mr grella was talking about so so the education um aspect of you know the the the cuisine the uh um however you say it I'm not sure uh that's that's going to be happening here okay um and you're going to have students there again seeing chefs cook being taught by chefs and actually cooking doing their trade um you go to the right hand of the sheet uh of the drawing up up on the upper right hand corner and again you're going to see the top of the building the existing building that's the second floor of the building that's where the mezzanine is again the mezanine is going to be um it's it's going to be part of the restaurant uh there's a whole bunch of rooms that are going to be removed so that we can open it up and you know people will be able to sit there and look down into the restaurant you see now the round stair of the circular stair that's going to go through a couple of different floors uh so it's going to go from the restaurant to the mezzanine and then we'll get into um the fourth floor which is the top of the uh uh the hotel I'm sorry it's the top of the existing building so um towards the back of uh the mezanine I'm sorry I'm still in the second floor mezanine area the upper right hand corner uh you're going to see the art gallery and that's where Mr Cella was talking about you know installations and and a permanent collection and who knows I'm might even be part of you know work from you know work away from home right so you could be working uh in this area and you know if you go on Zoom your backdrop is going to be you know a famous painting or or an art a work of art so so this is this this now becomes a very Dynamic space uh that's um that can be used for several different um applications and uh activities um Okay so uh how do how do people get into this building so I think the engineer and let's go back to the center um full PL so the engineer discussed uh that there's a drop off area in the front of the building and that's a drop off for a pickup area uh that'll be uh controlled by valet uh if you're going to the hotel you drop off your car there uh there's probably a camera that's looking at you parking there valet comes out uh tells you where to go you get your car they get you car and they go back into the parking area so you go into the entry Lobby which we're calling an arrival Lobby that's the minor Lobby and that allows a couple of things one of them is allows the accessibility to the resturant the um the two um elevators have front and back uh doors so that you can uh mitigate or you know negotiate between the two different levels uh that that we have at this uh uh that floor but it also takes you up to the main lobby which is on top of the existing building okay so um let's see where we go now so so let's go to the third floor okay which is the lower leftand corner and what you have there is what Mr Cella was talking about uh recording podcast uh I mean you have those rooms in there where local artist or Lo local podcasters I guess you call them that uh will be able to do their trade there um and if they want to they could exercise in the pelet of room which is right next to it so um this is a a a floor that has a couple of different uses Administration is there as well so that it's close to the hotel uh floors as well as to the restaurant so in a very strategic space um and we go to the fourth floor and and that's the floor where we're now on top of the um we're on top of the uh the main building the existing building if you look at the section uh that we have in the center uh you're going to see how the existing building which is that twostory uh level uh or space that you have there it shows the main floor it shows the mezanine and then right above that that is your main lobby and what's what's exciting about this Lobby is that you'll have not only a view of New York City but we have a view of that um that uh pedestrian Plaza right in front of it so so there's a connection uh if you get to the hotel uh as a guest well now you know where to go right because now you're seeing all the activity uh on that street so you're going to go there and and hopefully spend money uh but but be part of the community okay so so that that's where we are now we at this floor we start seeing um the rooms uh we also see the Artis in WR as that Mr Cella talked about that person is going to be occupying that space and that's right off of the main lobby so perhaps you know if you're a guest you'll be seeing that person doing his or her trade so so that that's very exciting let's go to the next one so now we get into the hotel floors and if we go to the fifth floor which is the um upper leftand corner plan uh you see that you know it's your typical double loaded Corridor it's got rooms on both sides uh at this point is a u building this is the low part of the uh um the entire building uh and then you see uh as you go towards the left and towards the back you see a a green space so this is one of the modifications that that we did uh when we first started um discussing it with the neighbors and what we did uh was to remove that portion of the building so that you have a wider View Corridor uh from uh from the uh uh the the um the saffron the uh the condominium behind us so so that that was one of them now the fifth floor is the only floor now that is that's the full floor because when you go to the sixth floor which is the one right next to it you can see that that whole disappears and that becomes a green area and and that's part of you know what Mr Cella was talking about you know cultivating your your herbs your uh your you know your vegetables that this is going to be part of it uh and and this is very very exciting I I love this building so anyway uh then you go to the seventh floor the seventh floor is a u again just um just rooms or Keys as they call in the business uh so that that remains just that eighth floor so when we go to the eighth floor um one of the things that we're going to see is that blue uh room in the back okay and that that blue uh space is a twostory space and that is for uh when there's entertainers maybe that come into into town or they're recording and they want to have uh an opening so they can do it here okay now now if we go back to the previous plan if if you can go go to the first floor so if you look at the uh at the first floor uh which is the plan on the on the center of the sheet you're going to see that there's a private lobby in the back so I didn't miss it previously I just wanted to discuss why we have that Lobby this Lobby has an elevator that goes directly to that uh hospitality suite and as you know an Entertainer you'll basically go in into that Lobby and you could just go to your floor uh without having anybody see you so so that that's what uh that's the entrance to to that floor to that hospitality suite so we go go to the next floor again so the hospitality suite actually has two levels so so the first level uh is on the eighth floor and that has two bedrooms uh it has a small Wellness area and and it has a theater and the theater again if you're an Entertainer uh you just recorded um album CD whatever they call it nowadays uh you could actually have your um you know if you have a video you could actually show your video uh in in that theater uh you could actually show uh a a movie of how you were recording so so that's very uh um you know very telling of what's going to be happening in this uh in that hospitality suite the next floor up uh I'm I'm sorry and then you have uh a fitness area and then you have a um some more rooms on that floor the N the ninth floor uh which is on the center uh of the drawing again has the second floor to that um to the hospitality sweet and you see that now you have a grand room you have a bar a grand room uh you have a bar you actually have a smoking room okay like to smoke cigars uh and then towards the back there's an outdoor space uh with koi pond and you're probably going to have a grill with a koi I'm sorry I just keep moving away from a koi KO Koi pond um a grill so that you could actually go outside and you know just have some festivities uh again you see the elevator that was on the first floor and I it accesses both of those floors uh so on the ninth floor as well there's the Rooftop Bar uh and as you can see the rooftop bar is basically completely enclosed uh it's definitely enclosed towards the back towards the uh uh the condominium project in the back and it opens to the uh um again it opens to New York City it opens to that pedestrial Plaza so again there's that connection from you know you're up there uh listening to Jazz listening to a uh pianist listening to you know somebody playing the violine uh that's that's the kind of um activity that we're contemplating the roof plan again we go back to uh the green areas that um that we're talking about the green roofs uh so that we can collect some uh some water and it doesn't go into the system uh and we also have a pool deck uh the pool deck is actually the ninth floor not not the roof uh so we have a pool deck that that it's open uh and again that pool deck is for the enjoyment of the guest in the uh in the hotel so we've seen the rendering uh this is uh basically the elevation um and again we'll we'll we'll keep talking to um HPC regarding what other things we need to do as an example the uh uh the existing windows are um either copper or bronze uh in color anyway so we might pick that up a little bit uh just to have that connection to the existing building but as you can see the ballot Strat that's on the roof that remains open we're not touching that obviously we're repairing it uh but we're not doing anything uh detrimental to it or to the building itself uh here you can see the four um Roundtop Windows uh that are um being used to go out to the uh uh to that dining deck and you see the last window or you know the first window if you're looking at the entrance um that is that will remain as is that window is not going to be touched or then perhaps being repaired um we also have uh on those four windows that were modifying we also have um canopies and we'll show you a detail of what those canopies look like so the next drawing this is the uh Newark Avenue U elevation uh you can see uh again you can see the artwork that's going to go uh you know over the entrance uh you can see now it's a green it's a green wall so again part of the art installation is Mr Cella wants to do a green wall uh that will not just be you know it'll be it'll have some design to it uh again to continue the uh art Motif that we're using throughout this building uh you can see how uh on the right hand of the building um the building uh matches the height of the condominium project behind us and you can see how it steps back at that point and that's the um the notch that I was talking about that we removed from uh the building you see the entrance to uh the uh uh what's going to be the restaurant uh to the left uh more and to the right you see the entrance to the arrival lobby as well as to the private lobby next to it this is the Maxwell elevation um the the Maxwell 3 elevation Maxwell Avenue elevation uh you can see again the existing bu building you can see how our building steps back to let that ballustrade uh keep going and you also see towards the back that we actually um in in the latest reiteration we removed uh a lot of this building we actually removed three floors of the building uh and this stair that used to be uh on that uh end um parallel to um the condominium project behind us and we moved all that out uh this this we did just to make sure that we had more light um as as much light as possible and again you can see the design is just the same as as the other um as the other elevations the other sides of the building so that we're not leaving any elevations behind Okay uh the next drawing shows uh four different renderings uh and you can see four different views um you know one of them the one on the right upper right hand uh it's it's it's a street view and it's probably uh uh either early in the morning or in the evening because it starts getting a little dark but we just wanted to show you a different mood uh for this building uh on the lower right hand side uh you can actually uh see how we uh peel the building back uh to maintain a wider View Corridor for uh the condominium project behind us the next drawing uh shows view from the saffron uh and it shows how the one wall stays up on the left and the other wall actually is lower um and you know one of the things that Mr Cella wants to do is is have a uh uh a a work of art on the walls and maybe this is something that CH changes in time uh but you know that's that's something that that he wanted to see uh the uh photo from the right hand side uh which includes uh the rendering of the Alan Hotel it shows a progression of how it gets taller uh from the smaller buildings to the saffron to the albian hotel so uh there's a progression of height going towards the corner so we're still getting into some of the details um which should be building details and historical details uh so on the left hand side um just below where it say Lage uh you're seeing some of the uh uh the types of uh plantings that we may do as part of that front wall um so that you can see that it's it's something that may change for the seasons um and and it's something that is going to be artistic it's going to be designed it's actually just going to be just thrown in there uh you're seeing towards the center you're seeing some of the uh uh the glass panels that we're going to use for um you know for uh um what do you call a railing and and and walls at the exterior of the building and you know you see the folding glass wall concept and this is one of the things that we're uh contemplating for uh the lower portion of those round windows on uh on Jersey Avenue uh on the right hand side now we get into um the awning details uh and the awning that that we're uh want to includ in this and you know we found this photo that was like almost what we we're doing it's got the windows it's got the sitting on the outside and as you can see on a nice day you know you have the uh um the own is retracted on a very sunny day or if it starts raining a little bit then the owning gets pulled out and uh you can still enjoy um outdoor dining it's a detail the right hand side is a detail of uh the oning uh for historic purposes so historical comparison uh as is and as we want it to be so you're seeing uh the building as it is uh on the upper uh rendering and you seeing the building as we want it to be on the lower rendering and what you see here is that those four Windows uh will be modified and the last window on the right uh will remain s is uh as a uh um you know as a sign of what it was this is what the windows look like now with uh the um rehab the the conversion now this is what they look like um and and we're planning on using the same type of railing that that was there we're just going to pull it out to the front so almost what we're doing is taking the bottom of the building and pulling it out uh nothing more than that um on the right hand side you see uh photo of the building uh en closeup uh and you see some of the uh you know some of what time has done to it which is you know dirt what time has done to it uh which is basically dirt and has to be cleaned and and repaired um again historical comparison uh on the next one again the same thing this is what we're going to do to the building uh you see on the upper right hand corner um that shroud that we want to put on uh over the um the entrance to the uh to the building and you know we've gone through a couple of different changes uh as we go through HBC and we discuss it with Miss O'Neal um again more historical comparisons on the left you see three drawings or three floor plans uh which is the basement uh the uh first floor of the the bank and the existing mezanine and on the right hand side you see what we're planning to do with it and basically um you know the building Remains the Same Again as I've expressed before except for the uh the dining deck uh and the round um stair that goes through uh through three stories could I take a f minute break or have some water yeah I was going to recommend before we get into the shadow study maybe take a break Bridget probably overdue on her break sure five 10 minutes what would you prefer well it's 810 811 right now so you want to say 820 820 thank you 822 uh Mr Harrington we'd like to begin again where is Mr Harrington oh he's right here this looks interesting stay away from York C because like you were Tak away okay when you ready we the on playoffs attorne the Yankees playing tonight tomorrow well he can continue okay I would say begin yes he he'll be he'll be right in okay so um just kind of back on a record here our our next uh step here in the process is we we completed an extensive uh Shadow study uh in connection with the project so uh Jose is going to walk you through that okay sorry for taking the break my mouth is just getting too uh too dry so um so the the next uh stage of the uh the presentation is a shadow study and what we did is uh we took uh every every month we took two hours of uh that month of one day at this particular day and we did a comparative study of the existing building versus what we're proposing now in in between uh the two sets of months you're going to see what's called a key plan and you're going to see that the key plan is oriented North and South uh that gives us the angle of the Sun and and the location in relationship to the Sun so um I'll start with January 21st and on the left hand side you're 21st and on the left hand side of the drawing up on top uh in the January um column or row uh you're going to see we took one um one study at 9:00 a.m. and another one at 10:00 a.m. we just wanted to see how that one hour actually impacted um the the building behind us so what you see on the left hand side is the existing building as as it is now that's the bank and on the right hand side you see the uh our building and from the north south exis you can see how we've actually pushed most of the building towards the uh the north uh Northeast part of the uh uh the project so that the south portion of it would remain more open but if you look at um January 21st existing at 9:00 a.m. you're going to see that the court or the courtyard uh it's it's in Shadows it's it's in the shade uh and when you look at our project which is right next to it proposed project you're going to see this basically the same thing uh we're really not increasing the shadows in the courtyard we do however have some Shadows uh on the roof of the uh of the building but this is January 31 uh 21st this is when um the angle of the sonit at its lowest so the the uh the Shadows are Castle are longest uh if you go to 10:00 a.m. you're now start seeing how that those those Shadows are receding so that you see um on the existing one uh the Shadows are receding uh even in the courtyard and then when you get to January 21st at 10: a.m. uh you're going to see the same thing with our building yes we do cast a little bit more of a shadow but now that's that's at 10:00 a.m. so by 12 we are right on axis with the with the South and with the Sun so that whole area is in full sun uh February if we go down to the next row uh you have February and and again we start at 9:00 a.m. and and you can see how with the existing building the courtyard is is dark um and and with a proposed building again the courtyard is still dark and we just casting some Shadows on on the roof of the project again this is February okay cold weather Long Shadows uh angalo the sun is low um on the right hand side now at 10:00 a.m. you're going to see how the Shadows uh are basically receding and there's only a portion with the existing with the proposed building there's only a portion of that courtyard that is under Shadow everything else is open and and the Shadows on the uh on the roof are receding at this point again you get to 12:00 the sun is right on you you can your um the only Shadows that will be cast will be by your own building in into the courtyard the lower row uh which is uh March uh now you still seeing the angle of the sun um start you know not being so low uh and you're going to see the existing building at 9:00 a.m. uh it's still casting Shadows on the uh um you know on the courtyard the proposed building is casting Shadows on the courtyard as the the building and just some Shadows on uh on the roof of the structures again this is still march right at 10: a.m. you can see how the Shadows have receded and that's because now the angle of the sun started um it says being a little um steeper um so that you get more more sun the angle is higher so you get more sun into the back again you get to 12:00 you got full sun on that uh on the courtyard as well as um the roofs and the so what's going to happen is that the I guess the south building will cast Shadows on the North building okay and and that happens in in every scenario that that we that we have so you get to April uh and again just see the at 9:00 a.m. you see the the Shadows being cast and you can see there's a little opening of light in the uh uh in in the courtyard you go to our building the proposed building and the Shadows are not that bad anymore so we only have a little bit of Shadows some partial Shadows uh on the roofs of the uh um on the roofs of the uh the existing saffron building and you touch a little bit on the on their deck not not trend tremendously so you go to uh 10:00 a.m. and basically if you look at it uh the Shadows are um cast by our building our proposed building are not I have receded tremendously so this just basically at um right where our building is and and the shadow that you see on the uh this is April 21st at 10: a.m. the shadow that you see on the south building uh it's it's minimal Shadow you see on the North building is reeded tremendous as well so it's they getting into May and again the existing building uh still casting Shadows on the uh uh on on the courtyard the proposed building is casting some Shadows yes it's it's minimally uh shading that area if you go by by 10: a.m. those Shadows have receded tremendously and again 11 12 you have full sun going right into that courtyard uh and we get into June June is now uh you know the the angle of the sun is high uh you see the uh the Shadows even uh at 9:00 a.m. they're minimal shadows and then you get to um the at 10: a.m. it's even less again 11 12 full sun on the uh on that project on that building actually so July now July August the sun is way up high um you know but still there's some Shadows that are being cast by uh the existing building some Shadows that are being cast by the proposed building you get to 10: a.m. Shadows are minimal um just basically close to our building it's basically close very close to our building adjacent to our building um you go to August 21st which is the middle row and and again you still casting Shadows on the courtyard that you can get away from the the Shadows are going to be there uh at 9:00 a.m. uh in August uh you're going to see some Shadows now in August the sun actually starts going down again the angle of the Sun so you start casting some some longer shadows I'm sorry Shadows this is some Shadows uh now this is August and in August the angle of the Sun starts going down a little bit more so you're getting longer Shadows uh and you know you can see at 9:00 A.M the Shadows that we have and then at 10: a.m. basically the Shadows are somewhat minimal but you know you start see more Shadow now um September 21st uh you seeing uh again same thing the the courtyard is in Shadow in the shade uh but now the angle of the sun is lower so the Shadows on uh September 21st at 9:00 a.m. uh they become a little longer but still you're it's it's just the roof that's being um shaded at this point and then you go to September 2 1st at 10: a.m. and you can see how the Shadows have receded not as much as uh you know August and July but but they have receded somewhat uh again in all of these once you get to 11 12 uh you have full sun you're facing south completely and and that was the purpose of removing that one leg or you know diminishing that one leg just so that we we were allow more soon to uh to go into to be experienced by our neighbors you get into October uh again you're getting October November December you testing the Shadows being longer uh between 9 and 10 but you see the difference between 9 and 10 in October November and December um even even when you go December 21st at 10:00 a.m. um the Shadows are not that great the the Shadows are basically staying the the farest that they will go is probably to the edge of of the rooftop deck uh on the North building now all these shadow studies were done by Revit uh we and Revit has an application that does this so what we need to do is uh basically locate the building on the north south axis and and the um the program actually generates all the shadow studies just as a as a point of reference thank you show the program do want show the program you want to yeah motion this uh if we could mark this as A3 I think we're up to this is a um a shadow program if you will it's paused so this is a uh a a motion or a a almost like a like a film uh of a shadow study uh going through uh the entire uh our site and part of the neighborhood that actually shows on an hourly basis what the Shadows do and once you get to like 12:00 uh noon time should stop it or move it back to it and you can see and and when is this when did you when did this is what December so so you can see that by the time you get to 12 o'clock you have full sun and if you look at the uh the courtyard uh of the uh of the saffron you're going to see that I guess that's the South Wall of the north building uh is partly shadowed by the south building and that's always going to happen because the sun uh the building was uh laid out east west so as you see as you you know you're facing the sun and the South that's going to create a shadow and when you say south building you mean the south building of the saffron building the saffron correct correct uh yeah the building has the two wings I should say Wings not buildings they have two Wings one uh on uh Newark Avenue and the other one on Maxwell and maybe I should have named it like that but uh the Maxwell building is actually Maxwell Wing is actually uh casting Shadows on the nor wing of the project and and that happens in every situation that that we've done and every study that we've done uh but you know you can see at this point that the shadow that's being cast is basically just their own shadow and this is a 12 uh go back to 11 let's see what happens is that 11 so so this is 11 again you still have the same situation where um you have full sun but the sun is actually the building is actually casting uh a shadow on on itself anything else no I that's it okay that's that's all we have for Mr Caro who's your next witness our next witness uh is Matt seckler uh Matt is going to testify as our traffic engineer and and our planner so he's going to speak to the traffic uh first M I'll her name I'll try one more page good let's see what let's see is this go ahead I'm sorry or proceeding truth the whole truth and the truth yes I do my name is Matthew seckler that's SEC KL l e r I'm with Stonefield engineering design address is 92 Park Avenue in Rutherford New Jersey Mr seckler could you give the board the benefit of your professional educational experience with regard to uh engineering and and your planning um qualifications certainly I'm have a Bachelor of Science in civil engineering from Union College in skky New York of a master's in CD Regional planning from Rucker University the blowstein school I have a licens I'm a licensed professional juner professional planner in the state I'm also recognized professional traffic operations engineered by The Institute of Transportation Engineers which requires both an examination and experience been practicing the field of planning and traffic engineering for over 15 years been accepted before over 150 boards in the state of New Jersey we'll accept this qualification yes thank you thank you so uh before you begin uh Matt I I I we have something on the screen here uh is it one or two slides that we want to Mark as A4 or do we want to mark them separately um I guess we could mark them both A4 uh it's one of two and two of two they're both aerial uh photographs prepared by my office the date prepared is October 22nd 2024 um essentially it's a zoomed out version of the general area and a little more zoomed in version which is two of two so I'd be happy to refer to which sheet for the record thank you so Matt let's let's talk about the uh the traffic first uh before you get into the planning testimony if you could uh give us the benefit of your review of the site and any traffic implications absolutely as part of this project we did prepare a traffic and parking impact letter report it was dated November 10th 2023 I'll briefly go into the analysis um as again this is a requirement in filing a site plan application with the board um however I will highlight what I think is you know some of the more important transportation and traffic aspects that really go beyond just calculations and numbers especially when you're dealing with Urban infill sites such as this one here it's part of this project we did do traffic counts um at the intersection of of Jersey and um at Newark uh in order to understand what the peak hour traffic is like in this area it was done June 6th and June 7th of 2023 that was a Tuesday and a Wednesday from 7 in the morning to 9:00 in the morning and 4:00 p.m. to 7:00 p.m. getting your typical morning and evening rush hours again no surprise to anyone who's walked driven bik through this area it is a congested area obviously you know the city has created The Pedestrian Corridor down Newark and this is basically the DET terminous of that point so you do have you know kind of a a a whole group of Transportation activity happening at once here you have pedestrians crossing the street you have City bike on the corner you have buses here uh and again the traffic patterns have changed you over the last 5 10 years where no longer is nework a through Street and traffic is still working themselves around so you know clearly from our site observations our traffic observations this is a congested Corridor um um but clearly it does serve not just the vehicles which is what people tend to think of congestion but also serves a lot of pedestrians a lot of bikes and other forms of transportation which is I think a benefit to uh this site's location in addition to doing those counts we also perform trip generation analysis basically looking at how much traffic our site will generate in terms of vehicular traffic now this is based on formulas published by The Institute of Transportation Engineers of course those form can't uniquely identify the transportation options that we have here obviously when I go to that book and I say how much traffic does a hotel generate how much does a you know a podcasting Studio generate it doesn't appreciate the fact that this is a location that's a five- minute walk to the path again you got buses nearby you're in this mixed use area where there's a lot of people walking and driving so in our analysis we utilize the book numbers but I would caution to say that those are likely overestimating what you would expect for this type of development in this type of location um you did hear um from uh the applicant earlier you know speaking about kind of Hotel traffic in terms of parking how many cars would potentially parked on a site in a given day I think that is a good data point I think he said about seven parked cars you know a day you know potentially from the site I would just say from a traffic perspective you may end up having a little more than that just because of kind of Ubers that wouldn't be parking on site but maybe coming to drop off not really entering the property but using that drop off area that we have on Newark and then leaving so you still May generate a a vehicle trip but it may not lead to a car parked in the garage um and again we did that analysis and found that with this development there really isn't a significant change in levels of service and delay at the nearby intersection um you know uh right at the Newark Avenue in Jersey Avenue intersection but I do want to speak to a little outside of those kind of calculations that were required to do as part of traffic analysis and and submitting this report and talk Tois and in submitting this report there are a whole host of other aspects of transportation that are being Advanced as part of this project you saw on the site plan that was previously shown by the site engineer the bump out that we're creating at the corner of Jersey Avenue and New York Avenue which is a huge benefit from from a pedestrian standpoint again it reduces The Crossing distance for pedestrians that are looking to cross the street either Jersey Avenue or Newark Avenue and again this is a high pedestrian area because of the fact The Pedestrian Corridor starts uh immediately to the east of this site um in addition um it helps slow down right turning vehicles uh which again which is one of the um most um uh common accents you may see in a urban environment is a vehicle making a right turn not seeing a pedestrian across the street so it slows down that movement besides reducing the distance that that of pedestrians in the street it also provides more waiting area these Corners can get congested this is again an area especially in when we did our counts in June nice weather a lot of pedestrians out there gives them a little more area to basically wait on the sidewalk so they're not kind of spilling out into the street so I do think that's a clear uh Transportation benefit um that this site brings you heard also how the site um um is as part of this application changing the grade of Maxwell Street um again Maxwell Street kind of functions as a back alley an access alley to a number of these um um uh buildings that have either reverse Frontage or or front Frontage on Maxwell Street what that will do is that creates Maxwell Street um almost puts the car second the pedestrians first basically pedestrians no longer are going to be going down a little handicap ramp walking across a painted crosswalk and coming back up again basically the vehicular vehicles are going to Bea in at The Pedestrian level which is basically at the sidewalk level which will be basically flush across so it is an improvement from a pedestrian standpoint helps again slow down vehicles that are using Maxwell um which again um is a benefit from a transportation point of view and lastly again you heard about the city bike that's located um along our Frontage and the bus that's located along our front edge again those will remain and they are useful um Enterprises either for employees of the building guest of the building or uh potential you know people that may be using the restaurant having City bike having a bus nearby is really important to help reduce that car traffic again we're trying to promote especially as a city uh with the kind of a vision zero initiative trying to promote these other forms of transportation I think that this is a site that's ideally located to take advantage of that from a transportation point of view um again other aspects of the transportation um review of this site uh obviously you heard from the site engineer year in terms of the access management in terms of how the loading and unloading will occur um I will note that you know there is uh some Street loading that currently occurs uh for the businesses along New York Avenue I think today I even saw a patler Freda truck you know park there probably hand delivering some items Down The Pedestrian Corridor and talking to the applicant it's very likely that those purveyors are the same ones that he may be using so it's not necessarily even bringing new deliveries to the area it's just instead of someone Wheeling stuff to the New York Street Corridor they may also do a drop off at this site as well so again um it's important to note that this site will not have a significant significant negative impact from a transportation or traffic point of view and I think there are a number of aspects that we've been working with City staff engineering staff and planning staff to improve things from a transportation point of view so I do think that this site again um is advancing uh you know a lot of the transportation goals and will not create a negative impact if you want me to what yeah so does that conclude your testimony regarding the traffic uh implications yes okay so uh yeah we'll move into the right into the planning testimony uh and I just want to preface it that um you have you reviewed the neighborhood in the downtown area uh as as part of your uh review and testimony thing yes I have visited the site physically I've also reviewed assorted um planning documents related to uh the nearby area uh as well as the zoning ordinance and Zoning code I've also reviewed the plans prepared and the correspondence uh back and forth with the city and the city's uh professional staff okay could you give us the benefit of your testimony based upon your review of the the the neighborhood in the downtown area and your your planning expertise absolutely and and again um just kind of bringing back uh and and looking at this site you know a little bit more from what's been out there and what's out there today I believe the Bank building itself uh probably dates to almost 100 years old I believe it was built in the 1920s the Bank building itself uh I believe um in looking at Old aial aerial photographs um in the 19 either late 1960s or early 1970s the buildings adjacent to it which is now the current parking lot were taken down and basically a parking lot was added and then in the um late '90s or early 2000s a little drive-through canopy was added at that point um so kind of just bring you the history of what was there what we're looking to maintain is obviously the look of that Bank building itself that was you know about 100 years old um but the aspects of the site that came later the you know 1960s 7s parking lot 2000s or 1990s drive-thru we're taking that out and I think that is consistent with what the goals and kind of the vision is for the um New York Avenue Corridor and the zone that we're in in fact when I looked at the area from the on nework Avenue from Grove Street um all the way up to Fourth Street um which I think is about a half a mile distance I believe this is the only curb cut that is left that can serve traffic I think the Bank of America on the pedestrian street has a curb cut but you can't use it because it's on a pedestrian street but this is the only curb cut that is left along the entire Corridor for any any private property so again clearly over time and kind of uh you know following kind of the the goals of plant planning these kind of curb Cuts or vacant sites have been removed and they've been filled in basically filling in almost like a missing tooth along this Corridor to help create a better um atmosphere a better um uh planning design from both a pedestrian standpoint but also from a neighborhood standpoint and taking out these kind of curb cuts and uses that are no longer permitted a drive-through bank is no longer permitted in this Zone based on the current zoning and again clearly our application is taking that out as part of this application now this site is located in the nc1 zone which is a um neighborhood commercial Zone um this is when you're kind of um coming up from New York Avenue and I'll kind of point out the various zones on the map that I have here before you and again this is A4 I believe and two of two um we are in the nc1 zone we are actually the first property on the south side of New York Avenue in the nc1 zone the nc1 zone does run along the north side of New York Avenue generally from the area near the path as you come up towards the site but we are the first one the South Side um the other zoning districts nearest to us is across Jersey Avenue is the Jersey City downtown Redevelopment area um and again that is generally that triangle that is between Jersey Avenue New Yark Avenue and Columbus um that does allow just for an idea of intensity or development does allow for um buildings that can be eight stories and a lot of areas that can be six stories plus a penthouse I would note that I believe that there is a uh building at 532 Jersey Avenue uh which again is in that District it kind of fronts along Jersey Avenue in Columbus uh that is I believe about 83.3 ft about 8 stories high um and again that is in that um zoning District that is immediately to our East which is the Jersey City downtown Redevelopment area again as I mentioned we start the nc1 Zone on the South Side the nc1 zone is also along the north side of New York Avenue if you kind of go diagonally across Maxwell Street that is the R3 District and again that's looking at A4 it's kind of the last properties on the leftand side along Maxwell Street and would extend to Kohl's that's the R3 District that's a zone that if you have over 6,000 squ ft lot you could actually build eight stories high in that location as well um we are in the nc1 zone but I just want to kind of highlight kind of what our neighboring zones are kind of across the street from us and next to us as well um the NC one Zone uh does have a purpose uh that it looks to uh enhance uh and improve existing neighborhood business districts it looks to provide ground floor retail in mixed use buildings and promote walkability and I think that the use that you've heard does advance all of those items I do want to note that the nc1 Zone has a minimum lot area of 2,500 square ft in fact many of the Lots in the zone are these kind of small Lots it's very familiar if you walk up Newark Avenue which again the north side is primarily The nc1 Zone continue down there it's a lot of small lots that have maybe a ground floor retail and something upstairs whether it's additional commercial uses or residential uses but very small and narrow Lots in fact we looked at um a total of 78 Lots from Grove to Kohl's that were in the nc1 Zone there are 78 Lots along that stretch you know on on both sides in the nc1 zone and the median lot was 2,400 Square ft we are over 13,000 Square ft in fact we are the second largest lot out of those 78 Lots or 78 properties in that Corridor so saffron's actually the largest lot the one next to us we're the second largest lot at 13,56 FT where the median lot is 2400 ft and that's going to come in into consideration later when we talk about this site suitability and what makes this site unique and can support both the height that we're asking for which is a D6 variance and the use that we're asking for which is the hotel which is a not permitted use in this Zone and really a lot of it comes down to that aspect of of lot size and Lot location again we are that first property coming off the pedestrian street we are at an influx or an area with mult multiple zones and levels of intensity and it is an area that we become a focal point at the termin of that New York Avenue Corridor so when you're looking down the corridor this is a point that could help bring people to the end of that street I do want to talk about you know from a D1 perspective the hotel is is not listed as a permitted use in this Zone it is listed excuse me as a permitted use in the nc3 zone We're In the nc1 Zone The nc3 Zone has a minimum lot size of 10,000 square ft so the nc3 Zone again neighborhood commercial zone is designed with the idea that their lots are 10,000 square fet in fact 100 foot minimum width 100 foot minimum depth that we actually fit we have a lot that is more aligned with a 10,000 ft zoning requirement than where we are which is a 2500t zoning requirement so when you look at the uses that are permitted in the nc1 zone and the nc3 Zone A lot of them line up retails permitted in both offices are permitted in both restaurants type one and two are permitted in both theaters are permitted in both but there are some uses like hotel which is only permitted in the NC only permitted between those two and the nc3 Zone I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that the nc3 Zone it the mindset of it is four lots that are 10,000 ft or more again all of those uses in the nc1 zone they were designed with the idea or permitted based on the idea the average lot is only 2500 square ft I can't imagine putting a hotel on I would say our median lot which is that 2400t lot it that doesn't fit in fact looking at hotels that kind of exist in Jersey City today you look at I believe the Holiday Inn coming out of the Holland Tunnel you look at um the um have a list here hold on coming at the one of the Holland Tunnel I believe it's the um the Rada by Windom uh I believe there is also the Hiatt place all of those range in terms of their lot size between 3 and4 acres and we are AT3 Acres so again we have a lot that I think is consistent with what a hotel could be supported on but our Zone because it's designed for these very very small Lots doesn't allow it so when we look to and we'll look to later on when we go through these statutory requirements for this D1 use variant I think it's important to highlight and note that aot is very oversized again uh clearly the second largest lot in this Corridor and where this use is permitted we actually tend to fit the bulk requirements we are 100 foot wide 100 foot deep or greater than 10 greater than 10,000 square fet so again this kind of lines up the fact that I believe this site is uniquely suited for this type of use from just a the size perspective and it's Unique in that case there are not many other lots that you could point to where it would be suitable in this Zone I also think it is suitable this Zone because of its physical location again being at the end point of the new Yark Avenue pedestrian Corridor um and I think it's important when you look at goals and purposes of Master planning of the master plan the idea is for this type of use and these type of downtown nodes to encourage certain levels of density to get people and businesses to basically be successful you want to have these these people on the street to allow these business to be successful especially on these you know areas further from the path but still on the pedestrian street you heard from the applicant and I think it's it's clear you know when people are staying at a hotel they're not cooking dinner in their house they're going out to dinner they may be going out to see an artist they may be going out in the town when you add a a hotel and again I think he spoke to boutique hotels it's adding people to this area that will help invest and will help you know um contribute from you know from a um Financial standpoint to all the various businesses along this area and also helps bring about a variety of businesses to this area besides the fact that we are adding this restaurant into an adaptively reused I would say I'm going to say historic bank but a bank that is you know almost about a 100 years old so I do see this being an important focal point and typically when you have I would say focal point buildings again you want them at the end of a Street Jersey City has a wonderfully designed Street grid not from a transportation perspective it's actually terrible for car traffic but from a visual perspective when you have these intersecting streets these triangular meeting points it allows you to add architecture add interest and I think what you saw from the building itself the building adds interest to the end of this Corridor and I think will help bring and promote and benefit not just the nc1 zone that we are kind of the first property in on the southbound side but also the Jersey City downtown view Development Area that is right next to us and I think kind of it works well for us being on that kind of transition of that those two zones I think is a really important factor for why and how uh this property is uniquely and and uh suited for this type of use now um I also want to discuss the six variants and then I'll go into kind of the positive and negative criteria because I kind of want to combine the two because I think the use and the height really go together with that this application so I want to now discuss the height a little bit uh as it relates to to this application now as it relates to height variances uh that is a D6 variance the statutory criteria is not necessarily as strict as the D1 use variance criteria we do need to however show um that this site can support the additional height without creating negative impacts can we support this height here and I think what you heard from the architect and and hopefully from the applicant in terms of the iterations that they went through in designing this building is that they really kind of tried to push and pull this building in different ways to try to minimize the impact as much as they could and I I do want to discuss you know that type of exercise that was kind of undergone here because it's important to know that while we are proposing a nine-story building it's not Nine Stories consistent throughout it's Nine Stories on about 40% of the lot has Nine Stories uh I believe 62% of the lot has six to eight stories and then you go to the fifth Story and you're at 79% and actually the fourth story is even less it's at 42% the lot sorry 72% % of the lot so the idea is that they were not kind of throwing as much volume as possible in one location they're trying to kind of work and mold this building to create the most minimum impact as possible and I think that is seen in terms of the actual grow square footage of the building itself this this lot can support with the with the setbacks that are required the rear yard setback that's required here a gross square foot of about 76,000 square feet if it was a six-story building and again we're in a five story Zone but I just want to say if we were six stories 76,000 ft is how much area you could have in your building five stories is about 63,000 Square ft if we took out the parking garage because this application does not actually require any parking we are exempt from needing parking because we are adaptively reusing the building that's out there but I think from a neighbor perspective I think it's important to have valet parking just because that keeps cars off the street gives them a place to go uh and has loading inside there but if we take out that kind of volume in the building that kind of clay volume we have left would basically be right around that five to between that five and six Story Volume that is permitted by ordinance but we are taking that piece of clay instead of just just having a rectangular block that's five or six stories we're pulling up areas we're pushing in areas we're pulling out areas and basically redesigning that volume into the building that you saw out there today so in terms of intensity in terms of the amount of interior like development it's very similar to a five or six story building on this property it's just been moved around from where that volume is and when you're dealing with this height variance we need to show that there's no substantial negative impact clearly there can be an impact but the question is is it substantial and is it substantially negative and you saw from the shadow study and there was so many images up there so I guess that the takeaway from it is that for a few of the winter months it seems to be potentially for portions of an hour of the winter months there may be more of a shadow than an as of right development and that is basically what we're looking at in terms of is there substantially a negative impact because we've designed the building we've angled the building so we would not have that negative impact from a shadow point of view and when you're reconciling the D6 variants one of the aspects that we have to look at is we need to think of why there was a height restriction in the first place and again there are properties right next to us that can go eight stories you know in the zone we're in we could only go um we could only go five stories at 65 ft but right around us you could go eight stories so they could create their own Shadows near us maybe on nearby properties but the question is you know do we are is the shadow is the what is the purpose of that height variance I think shadowing is one of the aspects that they were clearly concerned about and that's why your ordinance even requires a shadow study you know so those two clearly go hand inand when you have a height variance or a height issue show us the shadow study so that was clearly one aspect another aspect of a height variance is usually intensity are you putting way too much on a property and I think we're looking at here is I don't think we're putting too much square footage we're just moving it around on the property again pulling some areas up some areas down and some areas off the property line so I don't think that we're creating too much intensity um from a volume perspective the other aspect we typically look at from any type of um D5 or D6 VAR is usually traffic are we generating too much traffic that we're going to overrun the neighborhood we are a very very small portion of the traffic that goes through there and in fact I think a hotel where most people are not taking their own cars you know they may be being dropped off by Uber coming in by path that type of person they're more likely to not have cars than potentially if we built a residential building here which was as of right so I do think you know when we look at the purposes of why a height height restrictions out there I don't believe that we're creating negative impacts on those on on those aspects we also need to show you know is this generally consistent with the neighborhood now again use height variances and use variances you can't point to it and say this person got it I deserve it so there is no precedence each application is on its own so you know on the flip side I can't stand here and say look they got eight stories they got nine stories they got four stories we deserve it but I would note again the adjoining zones that we are have across the street from us on either side do allow for eight stories and I do believe there is an eight story building on the other side of of of you know seven to eight story I think it's seven with a penthouse on the other side of Jersey Avenue so again there can be buildings that are built similar size and similar you know stories as us again we are nine but we're not nine throughout we have a little small small portion that's nine other areas six all the way down to 5 and four so when I look at that evaluation what we need to do is we need to look at what purposes of zoning are we advancing and again then balancing that in terms of the negative aspects is there a negative aspect from The public's perspective and is there a negative um are we are we um invalidating or creating negative aspect to the master plan or the zone ordinance so from a positive perspective I think you heard a wide range of positives that are brought about by this application from the applicant you know probably now almost three hours ago um you know there are a number of items you know in terms of the school the programming for the community the artistic areas that I think are all advancing purpose a which is the health safety and general welfare with this application I also want to note that this site has almost 6,000 square ft of green roof areas which I think is significant again that's almost two it's almost 2 and a half Lots you know when you consider what the average lot is in the zone almost two and a half lots of Green Space that'll be on the roof that is an improvement from a storm water management perspective additionally we are taking pavement you know motor vehicle surface out of the site and again putting building which means when water hits it it's clean water versus mixing with oils and toxins on the ground and that again I think is advancing purpose a which is the health safety and Welfare I also think we are advancing purpose J which promotes uh the conservation of historic sites again while this is not a designated historic site or historic district clearly this has been something that has you know this building on this corner has been there for almost 100 years and is you know basically as far as I'm concerned you know it has been a staple in the community and while it's not recognized historic you've seen the care that's taken in terms of the window design the materials being used I think is clearly advancing purpose J of Miss of the uh purposes of zoning I also believe we're advancing purpose I which is the advancement of visual environment again clearly I think this building is is a really good-look building by a great design team and they're using what appears to be the you know really really great materials um in addition visual environment I think also goes not only the building itself but the area around the building the larger sidewalk the way that Maxwell is going to be treated I think also is an enhancement again not just for the building and property owner itself but the public that uses the street and the transportation Network around us I also believe we're advancing purpose G which is sufficient space for a variety of uses I do believe again while we are seeking use variants here a hotel is very is would be a welcome to this location because of what it brings to the neighborhood commercial districts and the downt Town Redevelopment District just across the street from us and I think that is important to remember that economic engine besides the tax revenue besides the sales tax revenue but just from people being able to frequent the businesses around here I think is very important as you get you know uh you know five minute walk from the path up The Pedestrian Corridor so I do believe that we are advancing um those positive criteria that is outlined in the ml in terms of negative criteria again we look at as part of this application um you know are we creating a negative impact to the public I think when we look at this application it does not have that issue those issues again clearly when you're building a building that exceeds height shadowing is important and that's why we went through that activity I'm not the architect so I can't speak to how it all works but clearly I'm relying on that expert witness who has stated in your board has reviewed that the shadowing will not have a substantial negative impact it's for a short period of time during just a few months in the morning hours of the winter I also um want to look at the other uh prongs of the negative criteria I don't believe that this is going to create negative impact from a traffic or parking point of view I don't believe that the noise will have a negative impact will obviously comply with all um state and city guidelines for noise um as part of any of the outdoor space on this property uh and I believe again that the um height and scale of this building actually creates a landmark destination in a location that could use it and I do think that that is not a negative criteria as it relates to the um first prong of the negative um of the review of the negative criteria terms of the Zone plan and I think this is an aspect of the application that we've carefully reviewed we want to make sure that in allowing both the height variants and the use variants that we are not disregarding and ignoring the Zone plan clearly hotels are not permitted in this Zone we are not fighting that in any way but what I stated earlier in terms of why this is a unique site and a suitable site shows that this is one of the very few sites with maybe the saffron next to us although they're clearly built and happy living there that can support a hotel and has the right characteristics to support this type of development and this type of use and again I'll remind you it's the lot size and the lot location that makes it uniquely suited being at the Terminus point being a cap lot meaning that we have three frontages again makes it an ideal site for this type of you know Landmark destination and I'm not you know obviously Landmark is also the applicant but I'm using that term and not that and not that way I also want to talk to the fact that your master plan speaks to item such as um encouraging adaptive reuse and that's what we're doing here as part of this application as you heard from the uh our Council there was always you know we could have knocked it down and started over again uh and that would have actually saved us a significant amount of height I think the Bank building itself is 45 ft trying to line up floors between our building and their building or that building and the proposed portion of the building does make for a bit of a challenge you end up with higher floor to floor uh depths between floors in order line things up and that obviously was an option here but we felt that was important because the master plan and Zone plan talks about adaptive reuse that we continue to have that type of um building here and be able to reutilize and maintain that historic characteristics we also know that and note the master plan talks about supporting local artists and Artistry again you've seen that both on the inside the building and the outside of the building between the um you know the um artist and residency the local artist uh um locations inside the building this is square footage that may be causing additional height maybe be causing additional interior grow square foot but we think that in helping Advance the master plan when you balance we need a height variance we have a hotel on this site but you look at the fact that look we've got like a half a floor of this building dedicated to Artistry I think is important I think when you look at the additional height and having potential an outside mural I think again that is something to balance that positive and negative criteria and the fact that we've Advanced you know some of your goals of your master plan in that way your master plan also again seeks to celebrate and beautify the public realm I think we're doing that here by having an infield development clearly no one is going to miss a parking lot with a drive-thru component in your New York Corridor uh New York Avenue Corridor here and I think that you know taking out that kind of blight and beautifying it with this building I think is important and does advance the purposes of the master plan I do think that we are again um actually fitting the goals of the nc1 Zone we are providing a gathering space we are providing an area that will help encourage growth within our neighborhood uh zones and our neighborhood nodes and again this your master plan speaks to this being kind of a medium density um uh neighborh Hood node that's what they speak the New York Avenue Corridor as a medium density node and that says that Medium density nodes typically have buildings of up between four to eight stories and again while we are Nine Stories and not debating it we clearly could make it eight but have a worse shadowing effect on the property next to us we could even make it seven we had portions of the building that were you know a larger seventh floor but we've cut that back and in replacing that you know square footage we've added a ninth story in an area that would not have a negative impact to our neighbors around us so I do believe again that we are um complying with the benefits of the nc1 zone so overall as part of this application I believe that we do meet the criteria that is outlined in the Michi standard which is what outlines what's required as part of a D1 use variance approval as well as the D6 variant which is the typical uh looking at the Grasso Case by us specifically evaluating uh the potential negative impacts of both the use and and height that we're seeking I think we've identified the unique site suitability aspects for not only can the hotel use be supported here but this site can support the additional height and that height is really there because we're looking to reduce the impact to the neighborhood around us um so overall I do believe that this application does uh satisfy those two standards we do have a couple of other I'd say lower hanging fruit C variances we have a rear yard setback where just our first floor violates that's the parking floor I think it's if we were if we had a basically 15t hole in our site in the middle of it it would not allow for the additional parking in that parking level um so we do have a a full first floor but everything above that floor complies with the rear yard setback so really it's I think you're balancing uh a better zoning plan by really having a very limited violation in an area that allows for better vehicular storage while the rest of the building clearly complies in has greater rear yard setback than what's required and we also have the loading space uh variant which we don't have a dedicated loading space but we do have the ability for the vehicle to unload inside our valet garage um but we don't have a specific striped out area for it and we've showed the ability for those vehicles to be able to get in and out without um intruding on the traveling public so I do believe those two c variances can also be granted by this board as part of this application so again overall I do believe we meet the purposes of zoning I don't believe we have substantial negative impacts and I do believe we do meet the D1 and D6 uh uh variance criteria here okay not done yet uh we uh we need to address the the the number of stories that we're requesting I know that's kind of part and parcel with the height but if you could touch upon that how that maybe Blends in with the uh the reasoning for the height and that we all are also asking for relief from uh the signage uh maximum permitted sign area illumination if you could touch upon that absolutely um from a from a uh height perspective again you've heard significant discussion about height um you know there's both a foot measurement and a story measurement that's has your requirement in the code uh obviously the same reasons why we believe we need the foot measurement is why we also need the story measurement um we are at Nine Stories again where five is permitted uh per zoning uh again you've heard our discussion the fact that we are not building our five stories at 12,000 ft basically block intervals we are Bas we are taking some square footage away from each floor including some of those lower floors and basically that gets added onto the top where we have that Nine Stories and again all the shadowing effects all that really comes down to this the same discussion terms of uh signage again we've been very cognizant to ensure um that the signage here fits the building I don't even know know if the board you know even remembers or saw the signage on the architectural plans because I think it was very um well-placed it was not I think Gody on the property obviously we are on a corner lot we do kind of have two uses here we have the restaurant use and the hotel use you don't want the person walking in with their bags into the restaurant and you don't want to confuse the person who's looking for the restaurant to be in the hotel uh so again uh we are seeking some some um aspects of signage variance relief uh because of that and again same thing with the way the signs signs are lit again we want this to area to be you know a neighborhood Beacon at the end of New York Avenue that draws people to the location that said the signage is not gudy it fits the building it just is that we have these two uses and a historic building that we're working with or a building that has historic nature uh that we're working with here okay anything else that's it okay so that uh completes our presentation okay thank you so Mr Harrington let's let's do it this way um I forgot her last name an yeah an an there you are an why don't you if uh this would be your opportunity if you choose to cross-examine any of the applicants Witnesses do you want to cross-examine anyone yes I do yes please thank you very much and also again I'm just a member of the public representing members of the public so that other members of the public may very well have questions too no no let's start with you time is running hopefully wait until we finish yes let's start with you you want to cross-examine anyone yes yes I do and hopefully I'll do as much as we can and we won't have dup duplication um so I would like to take the Witnesses in order I think that makes sense logical good who's first I forgot okay so who well it was Mr crella it was Mr Mr crella was first yes um and I actually there he is do you do you mind if he stay s sitting do you want to stay sitting down and I'll talk here we'll both we'll both just talk here at the I don't know if you have a portable mic no an just have him come up and question him please we just start so I had I had questions about the operation and again I should say this is you know great project but the problem is the location and that's of course you're not a lawyer but that's what the the law is is written for but you did a beautiful job talking about it and I just have some questions about the operation um so it it seems that the actual hotel rooms are only about 40% roughly of the the area not not counting the restaurant that that as you talked about the the bedrooms are concentrated on the fifth sixth seventh floor and half of the fourth floor and half of the eighth floor and I was just wondering why is so much space devoted to the I guess I would say the it's almost as if the hotel is an accessory used to all the other aspects of the program can you tell me why that why that is sure so we did not want to create a room commodity you know where it's just rooms you're competing on price the there's no amenities that make it attractive uh when you have amenities like this obviously it raises uh what you can charge for a room it ALS you know because it's creating a excitement it creates a Vibe especially with the restaurant and the lobby so we had looked at an as of right um structure to do the rooms and it just eliminated all the great things that would make the project special um and and you mentioned a couple those right now um I wanted to ask about events and by that I would mean oh you know better than I do here in the industry a wedding a convention something special that people coming to the hotel do you anticipate having a events at the hotel so um the property is not designed to do events events are a um totally different animal when it comes to parking and traffic and the whole bit this is designed the only events that I really foresee there artists and residents you know welcoming to the neighborhood to or to hold events when we uh rehang artwork in the uh Gallery but small personal events that are specific to the property we will not be hosting weddings would would you be willing would you be willing to have absolutely would you be willing to to have that as a condition absolutely and and would you be would you be willing to um maybe work with planning staff for maybe Mr leaga to I I don't want to be just a wedding oh but this is a bitva you know I understand other other types of similar types because that was what we were going to get into is the parking loads all of a sudden at once you got everybody parking all over the neighborhood so if you would be willing to to to to work with us to make sure that those events won't uh a question I had for you was do you know what the seating capacity would be for the art gallery the two big rooms of the art gallery if people were to put banquet tables there I really don't to be honest with you I you know CU it's never been something that we anticipated doing and so again it sounding to me like essentially a use that was characterizable as a banquet hall you'd be willing again I'm not I'm not trying to block you from anything you want I'm trying to make it so that if we have objections to things that he wasn't planning to do anyway those would be conditions and again running with the land he wouldn't then be able to sell it as a banquet hall um so I think that's that's very you know helpful to hear um in terms of this might be a question for the architect or the engineer I don't know if you know how the parking down in the pit that mechanized parking they're called puzzle parking after those little plastic puzzles where you move the squares you have one open Square and you move the the squares do do that make sense you know the puzzle parking chair can can you talk about how if potentially it were full and again maybe the architect or the engineer and someone will car in the back wanted to get it out what sort of maneuvering is required well all I know the parking down below is automated and the car that you select to come up would come up the parking above grade you would have to if somebody's parked in a three stack and they're on top you got to remember valet is the one getting the car so you would have to move the other cars not below but above you would have to move and and I think we're going to need more clarity on that because it just all the puzzle parking things that I've looked at it's only two ranks deep because you have one open and it can slide forward and then they have these weird cool tracks they can go back and forth um so I think that is really um most of the questions I have for you you've listed all the uses you want to do we've talked about some that might be able to be restricted that I think are the most worrying for the public um I asked you about the events I don't have a lot of stars I I from you my stars are when I have to ask a question um that then and again the other impacts on the on the saffron um I appreciate the redesign I think those are questions for the architect and the engineer so at the moment I don't have any more questions for you I tend to think this might be the one where the audience will but those were the ones that I had wanted to ask thank you very much any other do you have questions cross examination of the other Witnesses yes of course go right ahead yes okay so this would be this is the civil engineer I think was was next Mr chette and and I I do have a bunch of bunch of Stars For You on um so here we go the first question um and some of this is just because we hear it very quickly um in raising Maxwell um my understanding from the traffic report was what they're asking that the city's asking asking for ballards because the difference between the sidewalk height and the street height there's not going to be a curb difference anymore so my understanding is the city's asking for ballards that that was what they were asking for and also for drainage did the city asked you to raise that payment you I don't recall whose original idea it was at this time but no it wasn't ballards the the idea was that it's not a very wide Road and the sidewalks are narrow and to have a better pedestrian path it would be something that would be considered more like a shared path so it would be vehicular shared with pedestrians and so it would all be at the same level uh it was not it was I don't think the word Ballard ever came up we're not proposing ball their plan they're asking you to put ballards in that was why I was I was wondering their their report from August 5th I think that you alluded to and again because of the possible wanting to separate the pedestrians and the traffic a little bit I understand I don't know if the staffer who wrote the report is here I I don't recognize people but I would have to ask them exactly to to explain where they would want the ballards but I the the intent was not to separate The Pedestrian from the the vehicle with ballards you already have a curb to do that it would be self-defeating why why bother I could see having ballards to delineate where the crosswalk ends so that somebody's not wandering onto the sidewalk as they pull into the intersection and I can understand why you might want to have Ballard there just to clarify where Maxwell Street starts and ends and not not so much to keep the pedestrians to side so to speak so so so again and I may be characterizing but to the extent that that report from August 5th says you can have ballards every six feet and they should be 5 feet away from the building you would not want to do that no along along the length of Maxwell no I would think that would defeat the whole point of bringing the the pavement up and that point of bringing the pavement up I just want to make sure I understand is so that pedestrians and vehicles all use the same parts of the street exactly there's no longer a separation between pedestrians and vehicles it well there's obviously it it becomes more of a favorable environment for the pedestrians because they have a wider path so obviously a vehicle comes through there has to respect the fact that if there's pedestrians they have right of way and they would have to to to grant them give them a chance to move to the side if they're pulling through but it does give more room for pedestrian to move through that area um are are you aware and it may be in the the Traffic Engineers report of how have you the traffic already is on Maxwell Avenue Maxwell Street I I don't have the numbers of of for the traffic I I I heard it I heard it referred to and I can't remember was you or one of the other witnesses as a service road would you characterize it as a service road for for for for your project I I think it serves more like a service road to to a lot of those buildings things that are in in there it's um it's I'm sure there's people that are cutting through but it's not a major thoroughfare and it's only one way it's only one way yes it's only it's already it's already constricted one of the things that I saw on the and again I think it was engineering rather than architectural was the turning the truck that now is turning whether it's a waste Hol truck or a laundry delivery or Hol truck or a food truck if it's pulling in it sure look to me and I apologize because we don't have the benefit of the plans anymore if you recall that that truck essentially would have been jumping the curb if the curb were still there would you agree that raising the street makes it easier for trucks getting in and out of the building they don't have to they can drive on what was the sidewalk they don't have to worry about jumping a cur yeah it does well we we had a work with the the column replacement and the width of the garage door to to make sure that the truck would be able to get in and out of that building it it would have if we had a conventional curb the curb cut would probably have been a few feet wider than the actual door if the door I forget Dimensions off hand if the door is 12et the curb Kut might have been 16 ft and would allow for that movement but if it's all at the same level that's not necessary because there's no real defined curve cut exactly there's it's flat um I Heard and again I think it was you might have been the architect say um the truck would pull in but obviously there's it's too tight to maneuver inside it would then back out into Maxwell Street right we we we considered both ways of of of a vehicle backing in and then pulling out forward as opposed to pulling in forward and then backing out we felt it was a safer uh and more convenient environment to pull in forward because there's always valet staff there so once on the truck is in and they need to leave one of the valley workers can go behind the truck make sure it's clear p Ians guide him out as opposed to them not knowing he's there and here he is trying to back in blind so we because we actually did the turn templates in both directions and and we decided it was a better system to pull in forward and back out right rather than in the oneway street to pass the entrance going in the direction of travel and then back in correct so so that means you're going to have a of one of the ballet Park is one of the parking attendants to monitor the trucks backing up kind of like when there's road work exactly and do you happen to know I don't know does that violate the one way a directional ordinance requirement on that street I don't think so I you're only backing up 10 ft I I don't think that's in violation of it but it is coming against the the flow of traffic and do you do you know the measurement off the top of your head I would as a Layman say it's pretty close to that intersection with Jersey do would you agree with that or say no no no you got to tell me the number of Fe oh I don't I don't know the number of Fe off hand but it's it's quite a distance from from the from Jersey Street from it's not right up next to it but put it this way it's a lot closer to Jersey than it is to the other street at the end of it's not not quite halfway but it's quite a distance away it's you're not going to back up all the way out and interfere with pedestrians that are walking along Jersey hav no and I wasn't suggesting that um okay so the raised deck on the front of the building um how many it it wasn't fully clear and again partly unfortunately because the illustration has trees along it but that raised deck on the front on Jersey Avenue how far above the sidewalk is that raised up I think it's like three or four feet I just wanted to make sure just so you know if you want to go through the plans later on on our site plan C3 we have a a section of that proposed deck and that deck is uh 3' n in above the sidewalk okay so I was right between three and four feet um so people walking on the sidewalk obviously they'd have to avoid it they're not going to go I mean they might walk their dog under it but they're not going under it well you can't get under it right right I mean you have to crawl no you there's no space to crawl under it it's going to be solid sorry it's going to be solid you can't get under it yes right have to no no you're talking over one another well you can't get under it question right you have to crawl and then he said it's going to be solid and I repeated it's going to be solid and he said yes um do you need permission from the city to encroach into the right of way the public right of way yes there's a franchise agreement that would from my my understanding is it's a it's a mayor and councel uh decision ultimately becomes okay it would get recommended by this board and then would have to go to Mayor counsel they can correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure that's the process so so this word would have to recommend despite the creation of the what I heard called the pinch there where it comes pretty close um that's why you want to move the bikes and then they'd have to recommend that this encroach and again it's my understanding I know you're not a lawyer the property line of the building is the wall of the building it's not that the property line goes more and there's an easement the property line it is city property on that side walk so they would need whatever the process is for that and maybe it does require this as part of this hearing or or different I well I don't believe this board can actually Grant the franchise agreement and and I I think they can make that recommendation to Town Council but it's it's similar to when a restaurant wants to put seating out on the on the front sidewalk for for for for patients I could why don't you clarify this for us Mr it's a legal question I mean I can clarify it you know a franchise ordinance you a ordinance as part of a site plan approval it's put in as as a condition of approval uh the board you don't approve it we don't Grant it Grant it and then you have to go to the city council and you file a petition uh and request for a franchise ordinance and the city council votes on it it goes to all the department directors within the city and and they recommend or not recommend it and that's the city council the body that would grantan that's this that's the direction that the developer is going to go in is to put it that's what they're planning okay right I believe I believe that's in the planner report that any any approval would be subject okay to a franchise ordinance being approved by the city council okay does it chck does an approval by this board count as an endorsement of that application for the franchise I would say it does because it's part part and parcel of you know the planning department okay so just just to be aware of that that's essentially really that the board is granting that creates that narrowing um I wanted to know and again this might be for the architect the nework sidewalk is being widened uh there's the one drop off space um we've seen the bus turning radiuses I think we're going to have some evidence on that can you tell us why you're widening the New York sidewalk I just missed why that was the main purpose of that is to provide more space at that intersection right now the radius is is is very generous it's but larger radius makes for easier turning movements for the vehicles but it cuts back a lot of the sidewalk area and at a busy Corner especially with the the bike station there at one time we thought of maybe trying to relocate that bike station elsewhere but in the end it was decided that uh and and I believe it was someone from planning staff that made the first suggestion to to uh widen widen the sidewalk reduce the pavement width provide more space for pedestrians and and keep the bike station at that corner and can I ask cuz I don't know I'm not from Jersey City is there more pedestrians walking up and down Newark or walking on Jersey you'd have to ask the traffic uh I'll ask the traffic guy about that um okay and this is just one question did I understand correctly that the the the roof the storm water runoff and the sanitary sewer have a combined discharge yeah the city I I should have addressed storm water in my original testimony so I I'll be glad to to talk about it right now um it first to answer your question it is City policy it says a combined seore area which means that Sur Mains carry both storm and sanitary flow in this area um there is the potential at sometime in the future that they may be separated and so all the buildings the sewer line comes out of the building the storm line comes out of the building as two separate lines there are two cleanouts behind the curb and once you get beyond the curb they they merge into each other as one pipe so there's only one connection into the sorm system into the into the into the combined system uh depending on the size of the pipe it goes directly in or goes into a manhole in this case it goes into an existing manhole that's there uh but I will like to mention also that because there's a uh uh because of the parking lot being removed the way the Jersey city ordinance is is worded um the major development which is triggers the storm water requirements is based on um either adding or replacing impervious area and if it's more than 5,000 square ft it becomes a major development so this is a major development but we are proposing 6,500 Square ft of green roof and that green roof reduces the flow so that we meet the requirements of the storm water ordinance for those reductions for the 2year the 10 year and 100-year storms okay that's the Reas and that's it thank you very much thank you if I could just redirect question for Mark I think it might clear up yes go right ahead so um Mark I'm showing you the the August 5th report from uh the city Traffic Engineers and it does say uh or correct me if I'm wrong it says it is recommended to include ballards and then it talks about the ballards um it doesn't say it's required correct no says recommended okay and and in your experience when when something is in one of these uh review agent uh letters that it says recommendation uh is is that something that you can discuss later uh with with the engineering department very often and and and sometimes other staff members have a disagreement and some of these and and so uh we would want to make sure that all parties are in agreement to any revision that we might make to the plans in that regard okay and I'll ask you if just to refresh your recollection because you know you're testifying not me but do you call having uh a subsequent conversation with engineering about not doing the ballards for the reason you I don't recall okay that's all so I think next is Mr gabay so you've also talked about all the different parts of this project yes I did so many parts um and as the architect were you asked to design a building that could support I think they call it Keys a number of hotel rooms and were you asked to have a particular size of the building so that again I'm using that it's 40% rooms 60% other not even including the restaurant I you know I'm I'm just a lawyer um and so was that part of your directive uh yes it was um did you did you have um any architectural concern about the need to and correct me if I'm assuming something to keep the rooms in sort of One Core area basically floors five six seven half of eight half of four right um was that to separate them from the other aspects of the program uh no um the the directive was just to do a hotel uh as a matter of fact we start when we first started we had over 100 rooms and then we started cutting back on rooms and adding more of the uh ancillary space that we have you know the the art uh Gallery uh uh you know the pelaton the all all of those different um complements to to the rooms and and it turned out that as we were doing that the rooms were uh the number of keys okay uh was being reduced okay aside from that uh as to the layout uh we were looking for the best location for all these all these rooms and all these uh other the spaces the the rooms as Mr Cella saying that were almost secondary to what we were doing because we were going to have rooms anyway so it didn't matter where those rooms were as long as they had access to all these activities so essentially you'd almost say uh the activities are primary the rooms I think I just heard you say SEC secondary almost yeah um um you've heard a couple things about historic I know I um and and and I'm not trying to trct you I'm just trying to make a a clear record and I apologize for I every every stenographer and some of the judges of the state have said am you slow down um the Capital One is the the it the bank is not a historic building currently it it is not it is not on the national register now and it's not in a Jersey City Historic District either I know it is not no it's not and you had when you're talking about um I think power washing and maybe repointing and polishing the grills although they'll be moved um you had said our hope is it will become historically significant and can you talk a little bit about that basically bringing it into historical signic so so the building itself is historically significant okay it's got It's got some uh some components it's got some elements that make it historically significant now the fact that is not on the register at National Reg so the fact that it's not in the Jersey City let's call it register doesn't mean that it doesn't have significance okay uh it it probably just means that you know HPC hasn't gotten to it okay as as an example so um so but we need to treat it as as a historical building because we want to make sure that that building stays uh as a historically significant building in the neighborhood is that is is that part of like I guess I would say the program itic for the restaurant and I'm getting to the business that it's a beacon that you can it's part of you'll be using that as the restaurant part of that historic Beauty correct you'll be using the restaurant um and sorry and you said people will be like in the neighborhood be able to sort of Orient themselves know where they're going by seeing this building well it it's one of the aspects that that we want to have I mean it's it's a very prominent corner and we want to do a building that it's actually uh significant if can't in that corner right I mean you you could do a a smaller building on a be you know in technical terms blah right so we we we wanted to get away from that I wanted to do something that was significant that was uh something that would be iconic so so right so so Mr Cella talked about excitement and Buzz you've just said I think I characteriz as you don't want a blah building the and it sounds like it's the size the prominence maybe the height although you're moving you're robbing Peter to pay Paul on a little bit of the height I I know that but that will all lend itself to the excitement the buzz the significance the iconic nature of it I would say so yeah and that was a a wood right I'm I'm definit in addition to everything else so I would and wouldn't and did and didn't I would say so yeah okay thanks um um do you know about the maneuvering of the mechanical parking pit so so so yeah so this is what they call a a fully automated or a robotic parking right so you don't need a human to actually move cars around one of those spaces is it's vacant and that allows for the different movements uh within that parking space that was actually laid out by one of our Consultants okay so it it is it does work and it and it works it leaves one space open right and then it moves just like that little puzzle it moves them all around exactly um we've asked about the art gallery and the use for banquets my understanding is Mr Cella says it's not he's happy with the condition there um the the this may have been a a throwaway line the the idea that the recording artists can use the pelaton room is the pelaton room um is it going to be used by anyone who's not staying in the hotel or otherwise utilizing some other programmatic aspect of the hotel that's a question for Mr crella okay M Mr crella sure so U it will be used for hotel guests and uh we would also make it available on day passes for the immediate Community we're thinking two block radius and is that a separate bu I don't know how pelaton separate business no so would they have to have their own pelaton account but they could come in and ride on the bike I guess is is that how it works that would be recommended obviously but uh that pelaton does have a program for hotels kind of introduces the whole system to people to people and that you could buy a day pass for that yes okay okay thank you if you're local I'm Lo does local mean living in Jersey City two block two blocks okay um okay seting capacity I asked oh uh you were talked about um the views from the main lobby that the there's a there's a Lobby on the on the ground floor but there's a main lobby on the fourth floor it's the half of the fourth floor that's not that's not rips um and the views from there um and this is going to be a little bit obviously you can't you know hover in midair suspended by a drone to see those views but I take it you've done studies that say yeah the views looking East from even the fourth floor of the proposed building are going to be pretty nice so so you're going to have use right you're going to have use on the fourth floor and you're going to have the new Corridor that's actually uh pedestrian Corridor right so so that that's where you're going to go uh Jersey city has uh a myriad of toll buildings so I'm not sure Beyond those toll buildings if you're going to be able to see anything but at least you'll have that view yeah and I'm not suggesting you can see the Hudson I think what we see is Jersey City's Skyline now we don't necessarily see New York but that's the the view from from like roughly the fourth story right um I one of the things I noticed going over the um the plans is that leaving inside the fact that the existing Bank building has I think a 20 foot story at some point is Big ceilings that the the the newer wing of the building I'll say the non-bank wing um the stories are 12 13 or 14 feet um can you talk a little bit about why those stories are so spacious so so the the first thing is you know we have a building that an existing building that's 45 foot long uh 45 foot tall right so so we the first thing we did was actually make make sure that we had enough Headroom for the parking system not the one in the basement but the one on the first floor and then from there up we actually made the rooms uh hide in such a way that we could actually get to uh that Lobby on the fourth floor right so once we once we did that going from there um given the the structural system that we're thinking about and the height of the rooms um we decided that this was the height of the building okay and and so and again correct it's 119 point something it's roughly 120 tall but nine stories but 120t tall which would be well 10t stories 10 12 foot stories math Ari okay I'll leave math out to you I was just to say you're an architect I didn't I wasn't an architect because I couldn't do simple math um the green wall um I've read in a note that it's not going to be plants anymore because there was some concern that plants might die that it's just going to be paintings or a mural do you know about that the mural that that is that what I yeah somebody someone testified about a green wall with plants I know the mural the big mural that faces West the tall one but on the on the Newark Avenue side it had been going to be a green wall I know there was some concern among staff that green Walls you know six months of the year in New Jersey they're they're dead and there was a note on one of the plant but I can't remember if it's the most recent plan or if it's the summer plan that said no we're not going to do the green wall you don't have to worry about the plants we'll have art or we'll have a mural instead do you I'm not aware of that okay um uh so then we're going to the to the shadow studies okay um and again there's there's if people will remember the the purple on the plans shows the the new Shadow basically if you will the very very 1st January 21st at 9:00 a.m. there's a little bit of tan was that intended to be purple and it just came out tan I I think what we're trying to do at that point is just take the difference between what the C the shadow was that was cast by uh the saffron itself right versus what we would have cast uh based on you know that the the angle of the Sun at that point and the angle of the Sun at that point at that point um I I think it's probably it's hard to tell whether it was meant to be purple or gray but I think the 10: a.m one shows whatever it was it is less by 10 it recedes yeah it recedes it recedes um and when you say the courtyards in the shade are you talking about just the ground of the courtyard or also the walls particularly the south facing wall of the inner Courtyard so so from the shadow study you you saw that we actually have portions of that wall and sometimes the entire wall in Gray it it it is not just that the bottom it's actually on the wall right in Gray or in Gray or in purple um okay and I confused a lot of people talking about the south wing and the north Wing myself I should have called them Maxwell and and yeah I know yeah no I was I thing the south facing wall of the north wing of the building and people would say what um the at the end there was that shadow movie that wasn't part of the plans that's correct um the plans it seemed to me didn't really um explore the effect of the Shadows on Newark because it was just the same every single picture is the same on nework so you can tell they haven't been doing that but it looked as if those movies do show the Shadows cast on Newark by the 120 foot portion of the building I'll say with because the sun is always in the South did you did you intend to model those is that something that the board members or even the public can look at and say well we we we did a shadow study uh mainly because right the saffron basically kept requesting it more than anything else right so so we did that now we did that movie uh just to show a wider range of Shadows and yes we are casting Shadows absolutely okay um and that's that's all for you I'm on to traffic that's it great thank you very on to redirect yes redirect go ahead Mr no I I I just want to try to clear up the the the record with some questions um uh clear up the wall oh the green wall yeah I mean look at the green wall is it your understanding it's going to be natural plantings yes okay um and then that's at the that's on a norc Avenue facade that is correct okay um and then uh when we talked about you know the activities and the design that you did for for the building um the design of of the areas for the activities that that's important right you see yes but it's not the primary use or reason for this project is that correct no that that that is correct I I was merely just trying to say that uh as as we're going along the the look the keys are what this is all about but it it became once we started doing the design it became all secondary to all the other spaces because we needed to have those faces uh from the point of view of where they were and is it fair to say then the these additional amenity spaces and areas and uses you put within this building or you program within the building helps to make this a Unique Boutique Hotel definitely that was the whole purpose okay thank you um do you know and while we're on I guess Rew director maybe a question for Mr Pella um I heard one of the witnesses talk about a destination right people are going to come to this place um do you know are those ancillary uses part of what will bring people to use the hotel or are I guess I'll stop there are those ancillary uses part of what will bring people to the hotel so there's a hotel in Manhattan called the Ace Hotel the Ace Hotel has been around for a while now but it was a hotel that really set a precedence for being a community hotel and people want to go there because people want to experience what the community is all about so when I hired Jose and his firm that was really the mission we wanted to create a newer version of what the Ace Hotel is but the amenities are about attracting people the locals and attracting people into the into the rooms you hope let the record reflect two thumbs up for attracting people to the rooms do you know do you know Frank can I can I call you Frank sure sure um do you know the the address of the ace I don't I don't either I think it's in Manhattan I want to say the west side but that there's several of them now but there's a bunch okay thanks we we can find that out that's Google oh I could Google somebody want to Google me a hotel can we get to the next witness because it's running late on time okay thank you I know 10 I know well y that's it no I'm I'm going fast oh boy I'm normally in the suburbs it's six earrings for you know something like this um here you go and you are Matthew slar yes thank you okay and I am going to I think start on traffic and then go on then go on planning um so this seven um I wanted to ask you about you said the Grove Street Path is a is a relatively short walk I don't know you characterize it as 5 minutes I mean it is what it is um there's a Marriot there am I correct about that correct I think it's canopy brand but Mar but marot um do you have any indication maybe this is for Mr Cella but but you might in your traffic studies um is there a need for hotel rooms in this again general area that that includes the path and the the hotels there again I have not done a market study so I can't speak directly to it but again I think Mr Cella had mentioned he had spoken into someone that owns hotels in Jersey City and that they are you know back at capacity after Co yeah I think he said vibrant vibrant capacity um and we've done that we've done that um can you talk about the what's which is safer in Maxwell with with or without ballards do you think I agree that at the entrance to Maxwell ballards probably make sense just to Define where someone should be turning as you get down Maxwell again the point is that the cars are going so slow anyway that I don't think the purpose is to have a defined delineation between the sidewalk area and the street but again obviously we'll work with City staff if City staff insists on it we'll obviously install it did you did you do did you do speed radar gun whatever you would use speed calculations for the for Maxwell Street no we did not you did not okay um um your testimony about how many parked cars a day um I am presuming now that I've heard from Mr catella that that does not include events such as Banquets weddings bar mitkus conventions and is it true that those sorts of events as he and I were talking but you're the expert would be anticipated to bring a lot of people most of them many of them in cars all at once events that have defined start and end times obviously have higher peaks in terms of parking we are seeing less and less especially Urban events in terms of individual cars being driven and parked versus Uber and other means but you would see peing that you wouldn't see at a general hotel or restaurant um do you know how many have you talked to Mr catella about how many deliveries he would expect for his for his use for the full use the anticipation is one or two a day but as he mentioned to me is that the purveyors that he would use let's say for the restaurant are likely already delivering to the area to the restaurants at nework so it wouldn't necessarily be two new delivery trucks it could just be either running to both sides of the street type of thing and that includes stop me for that includes food um uh any equipment that's that's disposable I mean obviously plates you wash on site plants food La laundry um waste holl um anything band equipment I guess if people are coming in correct food Linens would be the big ones garbage is usually as needed could be two to three times a week uh but the the food and linens would be once or twice a day when you add them all up right because you got 72 rooms and a restaurant right um um so the height um did I hear I heard you say but I then I missed a couple and I got to say for fast talking oh my God I even more so now I should slow down if I can um I heard you say the height really is about Shadow casting am I is is there any other reason for zones to have consistent height limits again I shadowing I think is a key in some locations it can be a viewshed analysis again if we were closer to the Hudson or up on the cliffs I think that would be more of a a targeted purpose I think in this area to me it's Shadow intensity uh those characteristics would be most in line do you know how many of the surrounding buildings actually have roof you know rooftops where I mean you had your own photographs of our thing with the chz laes where you can go and sit do you know how many I don't know I imagine most of the newer buildings were but some of the you know 100y old walk UPS likely do not do you know do you know what the book tar Beach is uh I I have heard of tar Beach that's having going up to your um and so you had mentioned an eight story building being permitted in the Redevelopment Zone immediately to the east it's a long L it basically takes on that point that the bank cuts off and then goes my understanding from looking at the the zoning map and again you had the the you know straight view map is that yes the the zoning map is that there is one little area in that zone that permits an 8ot tall building but it's at the far end of that long East West zone eight story building not 8 foot tall but yes and I believe you could have uh Penthouse and seven in areas closer to our area our area and do those also have height limits again it's stories but it's how many feet I my I think it's 75 I I I remember the table I think it's 75 I just don't I'm not trying to trip you up and so again um my point is that that goes back to the voluntary very large stories make it make it taller um uh and I'm trying to go through here quickly and Skip questions that I think you know my planner can deal with or the public can deal with um uh you talked about how this is right in the middle of multiple zones um and that while it is not a historic zone are you familiar with the fact that it really is in the middle of six historic districts yeah definitely two close by and then six surrounded okay and do you know the height limits in those districts um again I'm not trying to check again I know that many of the districts around us are likely fivestory districts or four story depending on if it's residential non-residential that seems to be the prevailing as you go off of Newark outside of certain Redevelopment zones and and are you familiar with the planning documents including the historic overlays that say this is for consistency with the historic Urban fabric yes yes um we've done that um I heard you say you need to you do need to show that your project would be generally consistent with the neighborhood and that it would not set a legal precedent and I mean no no application sets a legal precedent in the sense that again you could point to one and say they have it we should get it each application is reviewed by these boards independently on their own facts and again I you know so no matter what I don't believe that this would be a precedent setting case Okay um has you Ed the word blight to characterize the bank's parking lot has that determination been made I would say that's that would be lowercase b lower B colloquial B colloquial B um okay do you do you know what the hours of operation of the hotel and particularly the ancillary uses would be I think that's probably best for Frank to answer okay I mean obviously the hotel rooms are used 24 hours but the ancillary would probably better for I guess so what I should ask is if since you don't know that and and I can ask Frank but did that form any part of your your analysis from a zoning or a traffic perspective zoning from a zoning no from a traffic perspective I look at the peak hours on the road and if the podcasting was open till 10 p.m. versus 900 p.m wouldn't make a difference from an intensity standpoint I do know that we would obviously limit the outdoor spaces I think you know the city I think even has an ordinance it may be 11 o'clock whatever that the time frame is so I know that would have a limit in terms of the time that the outdoor space could be used okay if you guys would indulge me I'm just going to check with Craig for a minute because we heard a lot in oral testimony that was not in the principal Point statement so I've had to do this winging it with a goe just want to make sure I haven't missed anything Mr Harrington I have I have a question for you Mr Harrington I'm good okay then I am I am done with my questions thank all right then hold on Mr Harrington we're obviously going to continue this that at the next meeting which I think is November 14th my question to you is is all your Witnesses available on November 14th no okay and who is not uh Mr carbo he's he's away that that uh that day okay so then then my in my little logical mind what has to happen next is since an has finished cross-examining your Witnesses now the public can cross-examine your Witnesses and then the uh the the Commissioners here can cross-examine your Witnesses so if the only person not available on the 14th is Mr carbal carbo carbo so why don't we ask the public if anyone has a question for Mr carbal and if not if a Commissioners have a question for him that'll be fine and we'll do that and then because I think Bridget might have had it for today so uh it's almost two hours without yeah you don't want to take a break do you yeah do you want to take a break no and do this no well we'll find out does anyone from the public have a question just for Mr carbal Question not an opinion just a question for him anyone for the architect the architect you have a question for the architect if you have a question please come up to the podium want take a break then all right then we'll take a break so we're going take a break we'll take a 10-minute break okay it's uh we'll be back at uh it's 1011 let's come back at uh 10:20 yeah okay okay sorry well just stop you know we got to get this over that's in Spanish okay carabell okay at this time we will um have questions from Mr carabello um everyone when you come to the mic please state your name and address and you will have one question each because we are way over this evening um and you'll have an opportunity to come back in November at our meeting and ask questions of everyone else so if there's anyone who has a question for Mr carabello could you please come up to the mic minutes no no no MH please state your name and address you have one question Pon spell your name please good evening Conrad bag first name is spelled k o n r a d last name bag b a t o g and your address 217 Newark Avenue Apartment 107 that's a saffron yes oh wait if that's a saffron building you have an attorney who's speaking for you so we don't my attorney hang on hang on and Conrad I'm very sorry we we went over this do you can you tell me quickly your question I I I just wanted to ask whether the building is going to block views from the top of the saffron we're going to cover that in our in our test I want they're G to say it's not let's have the next is not reportable I need one person at a time okay okay and I apologize I should have realized that with comad comrade wanted to ask you will your project block views from the saffron roof it will block some views obviously we're higher than that it will block some views but we have actually work with the building to maximize the views that are going to be left okay thank you very much you're welcome is there anyone else who has a question please State your full name and your address sure Cecilia delion sure 85 on the podium 85 Bright Street Jersey City huh okay you have to spell your name everybody thank you c e c i l i a d e l e o n um I just wanted a clarification on the fins that you have around the building are they lit what's the material how are they attached so so those are those are Al I'm sorry those are aluminum fins and they will have a dim light at the end on the edge that's about it on the entire Edge like a line on the edge yes like a line Led Led color changing no Okay and like on every night controllable like controllable correct okay any other questions from the public for the architect yes please come to the podium please say your name and spell it and also give us your address hi my name is parak ma it's a difficult name so it's p for Papa a a for Alpha R for Romeo a for Alpha k for kilo R for Romeo okay k um I'll start from beginning yeah p a r a k r a m and my second name is m a j u m d a r thank you okay okay your address uh my address is uh 258 Barrow Street um that's like a wheel bar parrow yes um yeah so my uh question was about the way the building looks um and you know it's all subjective but would you agree that um the like the build the part that you're building on top of um the historic portion uh looks completely different from the building and like from the neighborhood and um it's subjective but like why did you like kind of like make it deliberately different um if if you agree with that opinion like what was your thinking behind it that was two questions by the way so uh so yes I I um I do agree that uh that it looks completely different okay and the reason I did that is I wanted to maintain the historically significant building uh on its own to be able to stand on its own uh if if I copied that building it would that historically that that Bank building will lose its value so so you do a contrast so you know what's old and what's new okay that's that's why why I did it anyone else from the public have a question for the architect okay please state your name spell your name and give us your address Thomas holic t h o m s o g o r z a l e k at OG g o r z a l e k 85 Bright Street uh just a clarification on your detail for the for the old windows along the Jersey Avenue side there's a detail that says some of the glass is going to stay and then you have a a note about a nanowall that's retractable but there was nothing on the drawing so I couldn't quite understand it right so basically what we're doing is we're taking half the window or just about half the window the bottom part of the window bottom half right and and we'll create a wall that opens up so that there's complete um I know what a nanowall is right so so so now we have a a complete um you know access to okay the outside so you'll just you'll keep the top correct fixed yes and the bottom the bottom is a removable wall system the bottom is a what the bottom is a removable wall system but it wasn't clear on the drawing because there was a note to just a blank space on the sheet just check okay anyone else from the public how about any of the Commissioners have a question close the public portion oh we'll close the public at this you have a question for the architect okay hi I was your name and address please spell it I should know better uh Shireen macori it's sh h i r i n ma c r m k and your address 130 glenw have so um I've studied historic preservation and I learned that it's very important to only make changes to Historic structures that can be undone so that the Integrity is preserved um while this building is not landmarked as historic um everyone seems to have thus far acknowledged that it does have historic significance so I was just wondering about the windows I noticed that the the one window was was pointed out as you know it will remain the way that it always has been the way the building was designed right and the others um along Jersey will go down to the ground um there's railings there's rot iron railings along all of those now and I was just curious what will happen to those railings will they be used at the ground level or somewhere else they they will be reused and you might have missed when I said that basically what we're doing is taking the bottom of the windows and moving them out so so we're using the you know the same railings basically if we can save the same uh Granite that is being used so so yeah we're actually trying to preserve as much of the building as possible okay so they'll be they'll be moved um out so we're moving it we're moving it out because we have a deck a dining deck right so we're using that as railing the railing will be part of the deck yes okay thank you you're welcome is there anyone else who has any questions at this moment is that a question for the architect no I think it's a general question Francisco can answer that question okay any other questions for the architect from the public no so we'll close the public questioning for the architect AR this may be for the architect and I apologize it's for the people I represent uh they say because sound travels in all directions there's already been testimony I'm sorry there's there's there's already been testimony just ask you a question please there's already been testimony that the there will be the ninth floor um party programs if you will are going to be inside um is there any provision to require guests to stay inside and not come outside to the outside parts of the ninth floor for their partying activ activities so so the the only part of the ninth floor where you can come out is to the front on Jersey Avenue not to the back so that so you're fronting the street not the neighbors okay thank you very much you're welcome okay okay how about any Commissioners have at this time I'd like to close the public portion of our meeting and now ask our commissioners if they have a question no comments will we make tonight we'll just have a question for just for this architect right because he won't be back on November 14th Yeah question for yeah I just have a couple questions um in the in your slides uh the pool in your architectural uh drawings seems like it's an open pool but yet in some of the drawings I mean in some of your slides it looks like it's an enclosed pool is it open open air or enclosed it's open okay all right that's someone because it just want to clear that um I'm assuming obviously in your Shadow studies um the one thing I guess we had to consider and you did is the fact that at certain months when you have daylight savings time on one particular day 4:00 can mean something different than 5:00 so I'm assuming all that was incorporated into that right so again that's part of the program the program takes all that into account um one um in your rearrangement of the um the latest version um approximately what percentage or fraction would you say that you removed from that southern side to accommodate the shadow studies in terms I guess it's from floors 5 through eight like a so yeah so we we removed three floors uh percentagewise I I really couldn't tell you but uh it's it's at least 25% yeah it looked like it was about 30% so I just wanted to get an idea of that and uh I have to ask this question because my first bank account as a kid was in that bank when I was there I used to go my grandmother to that bank uh at that point by by the way for clarification it was originally the Trust Company of New Jersey then North Fork bank then Capital so just want to make that clear I think I still have my pass book at home you to get your interest on there but anyway are you going to keep the Vault and what's going to happen to the Vault we gon to ask him that one we are going to keep the Vault and if you ask Mr Cella how he's going to use it he'll give you the the answer wine of course oh it is what else I had my I have my I just need to know what's happened to that vault do any other Commissioners have any questions thank you okay I do just have one question you talked about the franchise ordinance where it'll come down in front of the wall where you're going to how far out onto the sidewalk will that come um you know because that's a pedestrian walkway right there so how far out is it going to come to infringe on that pedestrian walkway I believe it's about six feet I don't know what they said which leaves how much for the pedestrians to walk I think the U okay then I'll ask you the next time M okay I I apologize could you please repeat your question yes my question was how far out and how much of the walkway The Pedestrian walkway will remain I believe the civil engineer will have the answer for that okay then I can then I will not ask that question I will wait until next time okay okay if there's no other questions um I'd like to ask for a um a motion to adjourn the meeting do I hear second okay meeting adjourned we'll see everyone back here hopefully uh November 14 14th 14th and as Francisco said don't forget to vote okay thank you thank you everybody so much for my run of good luck huh just really we really thought you were helping us now really really trashed it tonight huh right normally I'm I'm good for 20 30 minutes you know I got a month months two three months worth of of meeting in me now hope you get all those other things pushed man otherwise it'll be midnight okay are we really going for a drink oh I know ask those girls all right got to go we allowed to talk can I we're not you know in the old days Catherine we'd stay till midnight Zo