board Uh this is March 27th 2025 Um and this meeting is being held in accordance uh with NJSA 10 col4-12 the open public meetings act I would like to call this meeting to order
Um Mr Beasley are there any sunshine announcements to share with us In accordance with the open public meetings act uh notice has been provided to Bergen record LS Bito as well as posted with the city clerk Um staff
request that this be um they do it different Staff requests that this be marked as B1 B1 Okay Can you please take roll call Yes Commissioner Allen
here Commissioner Patel here Commissioner Bole here Commissioner Burns here Commissioner Baron here Commissioner Zlicki present Vice Chair Rule here And Chair Coyle present
We have quorum Thank you Can we all please stand for the flag salute I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and
justice for all Bridget can you please swear in any staff that are in the room that are in attendance Do you swear or affirm the testimony Yes Okay Is there any correspondence
There is no correspondence Okay So any adjournments Okay Germans as well Okay We have one um case this evening and it's case Z20-043 uh 2011 Newark Avenue We have had four
public hearings on this application Uh October 24th 2024 November 14th 2024 December 12th 2024 and February 27th 2025 This is the fifth and hopefully the final meeting uh which is this evening
March 27th 2025 Okay Um the board has heard Mr Harrington's direct case and Miss Stud Holmes had an opportunity to cross-examine his witnesses as did certain members of the public The board heard Miss Stud Holmes object case and Mr Harrington had an opportunity to
cross-examine her witnesses The board heard rebuttal witnesses presented by Mr Harrington and Miss Stholm and had an opportunity to cross-examine the rebuttal witnesses The board also heard from Maggie O'Neal the senior historic preservation specialist
So we can begin at this point Um and do you want to Thank you Madam Chair Uh Mr Harrington and Miss Stuto welcome We've had a brief conversation I
know that there are two rebuttal witnesses that Miss Stutholm wants to present They have testified previously and Miss Stutmolome has assured me that they just have a couple of items that they would like to either clarify or
address So uh Madame Chair I think it's appropriate given the way the proceedings have been going that we allow that opportunity uh for those two witnesses I believe uh it will be relatively quick into points that were
either uh brought up subsequent or that need slight clarification Okay So Mr Harrington I'm willing to entertain you to be heard if you wish to be heard on those issues If not we can have the witnesses brought in sworn in Your representation for the door is accurate
Thank you Mr Um can uh just for the um for the board um if you could tell us the nature of the witness's testimony and the relevance Yes thank you very much chairwoman and thank you Thank you board members This will be very short Um so I discussed with Mr Leagley I
understand he he can't be here tonight Um so I'm going to sort of sum up that interaction I had with him Um my first witness is Ben Simon Um you've I apologize Ben Simoth um you've accepted him before and um the applicants traffic
and planning witness but speaking in his traffic um capacity um pointed out he said oh uh the changes to the application that Mr sim off criticizing those were suggested by staff Um and you may remember he said
there's pros and cons If you widen this street then you may cause problems there And he said "We can go back to what we'd originally proposed and not make those changes if the board wants us to." Um I think it would be better coming from a
witness than coming from me to say "Well the staff must have thought it was at least improving something maybe hasn't improved it enough according to our guy Um but to just say well we could go back to the prior condition My guy had not had a chance to think about what the prior condition was So I just want to
put him on very quickly to basically make that point I think he's going to have an additional point about truck maneuvering because that was a question in everybody's mind at the end of the last um Okay And you have a second witness that you're going to put up Yes
Yes Is Joe Medici It's confusing because he's the younger Mr Medici but his father is Joe Medici Jr They call him Joey in the family I have the same issue in my family My husband Joey tends to drive me to the to the meetings So when
I say Joe Medici Jr that's actually the father So I call him the younger Mr Medici He was originally going to testify but he wasn't available on November 14th And none of us thought this would go to many many many hearings Uh we were told you know be ready So his
father who had worked with him putting the slides and presentation together came and testified But as we've all experienced and as Mr Medici Jr Senior warned me he's extremely deaf He can do a presentation but answering questions is just really hard and very slow So
because his son was prepared um and had also been available to testify um I asked him also to send Vinnie um his CV and a copy of his license which which we did Um we're just going to put him on to
address the appraisal report which Connor Monra introduced on behalf of the applicant which took me certainly by surprise I mean Chuck passed it out the instant before Connor started talking Connor has some new material in there So it's essentially Connor's essentially
reply witness This is essentially um Mr Mr Medici's chance to um reply to that appraisal report Again I think it'll be a little longer Mr Simoff I expect to be five minutes Okay And Mr Medici maybe 10 or 15 Okay Fine
Okay Thank you very much So who do you want to present first I can do either one I'll start with Ben He's shorter and sweeter Okay You're very sweet too Not just shorter I shouldn't say And you and you're not that you're short your testimony Yeah Never mind Was going to make it on the basketball team That's
for sure Do you swear or testimony you're about to give in this proceeding will be the truth The whole truth and nothing but the truth Yes I do My name is Benjamin Simoff B A M I N S I
M O F So Mr Simoff Um you were sworn and accepted as an expert You testified at the last hearing Um have you had a chance to review um the portion of the
transcript where the applicants traffic expert testified at the last hearing Yeah So I I reviewed the transcript during that for that part of the testimony and then I also took another look at the memo that Jersey City Engineering sent um with their
recommendations for the site plan And so there are three points that I wanted to just highlight bring out from the testimony as well as from the report Right So there's the two changes on Maxwell Street which they recommended putting um turning it into what's called a complete street so that the curb and
the street are at the same level right there's no drop curb or there's no drop at the curb like you're used to on a regular street Um and then in in addition on Maxwell Street they want they recommended putting ballards uh five feet from the wall uh to maintain a
um a corridor for pedestrians on each side of the street in order to provide them uh some protection from trucks that may be going down that street And then the traffic civil expert also mentioned something that's not in the report uh or in the memo that they uh when I was
talking about the issues around the curb radius at the southwest corner of Jersey and Newark in the plans they're proposing to bump out that curb I'm assuming you've all seen and I was mentioning in my testimony at the last meeting that that would cause issues
with the buses turning around that corner and the the expert said that that was a uh request that was made by Jersey City Engineering And so I took a look at at that um that recommendation as well um trying to understand right like what
what impact would that have on the site plan and on circulation And so we can start with the Maxwell Street one first We can and there's something that I would like to clear up and I don't know if if Chuck or his expert um can help with this My understanding and I could
be wrong is that the proposal to raise the pavement surface of Maxwell um in the cartway so that it would be flush with the sidewalks I believe that was actually the applicant's proposal and that that was so that the trucks could turn more easily and I believe that then
the city suggested the Ballards but the problem with the Ballards is then the trucks have to respect the Ballards they can't turn I don't know if that's true and maybe Mr Harrington can elucidate on that I Yes for the record Is this on Yeah Uh for the record uh Charles
Harrington Um no that's not accurate Uh it was a recommendation by the city engineers to to have have it flush uh at the the Maxwell to across the sidewalk and and down down the street So these are all recommendations coming from the
engineering department uh that were incorporated into the plan before you So Mr Harrington let's just make this real easy for everybody especially the board The applicant's position is city engineering and traffic had requested
that Maxwell Street be raised and Ballard's placed in lie of the curb And Mr Simoff if you have an opinion on that you'd like to give that to the board The second issue is the bumpout at the corner of Jersey and
Newark and that is the sidewalk bumpout and Mr Simoff you'd like to be heard as to your opinion regarding the turning radius of that intersection if that were to be done Yes So I testified at the last uh at the last hearing about I
guess I should tell everybody that I've read the transcripts and watched the video So I am fully up to speed as to where we Okay Yes So it's it appears to me that if the Maxwell Street is turned into a complete street right that there's no restriction
or no curb at the edge of the cartway right So a truck could potentially use the entire right ofway between the building lines They would have a lot easier time making that turn into the driveway on Maxwell Street But unfortunately I think that would be a
very hazardous condition for any pedestrians that are trying to make their way through on on through the alleyway Um and so to amilarate that condition I think city engineering would recommend putting ballards against the wall right to provide the pedestrians with a little bit of protection from
those from the trucks But again it makes it very very very tight for trucks to make that turn into the driveway from Maxwell Street As you can see from the plans and you see if you look on on the circulation plan it's a very very tight
turn Can you also then I think this is the last question unless you remember we prepped something that I'm forgetting or don't have on my notes Um can you address the issue that there was some discussion with the board as to a truck
backing out of the proposed interior parking lot backing up toward Jersey but probably not intersecting with Jersey but problematic in another way that again I would rather have you address than Right So when trucks are so trucks must back out of the driveway right
There's no room there's no room on the site for trucks to turn around and go nose out of the driveway So when they're backing out of the driveway at onto Maxwell right they're so the rear of the truck would be heading towards Jersey Avenue If there's anybody who's trying if there's any vehicles or any
pedestrians that are trying to make their way down Maxwell either towards the saffron or potentially parking at the hotel they wouldn't be able to and they would back out They the they would queue out into the intersection of Maxwell and Jersey And in my testimony previously I already said that the the
intersection operates quite poorly during peak hours during morning and evening peak hours And I I that would just cause I think it would make the condition even worse If you think that's all you have that's all that I have Yes And then I just
wanted to make the point about the curb extensions over at um over at Jersey and Newark And it appears to me that that so while the advantage of having the curb be pushed out is that you're shortening the crossing distances across Jersey
Avenue and as and so that would be that means that the pedestrians are in the right of way for less time Therefore it would be safer but uh as the applicants expert said right there's uh trade-offs And so the trade-off here would be buses making
or buses and trucks making the turn from Newark onto southbound Jersey would be swinging into oncoming traffic potentially on Jersey Avenue and it would be um it would make a hazardous condition exist And the another uh but I believe
it appears to me that another reason that the curb bumpout would be advantageous in this condition is that because the uh there it currently exists a city bike station at that corner that if there is an hotel restaurant deck
that's being expanded into the into the sidewalk that city bike station would likely need to be moved as well in order to maintain the 5 foot required corridor for according to the Americans with Disabilities Act So um it appears that
if they don't if they were to go back to the original layout of the curb as it exists today that it would be very challenging to maintain both that um restaurant deck as well as the city bike parking station So this is just my final
wrap-up My understanding is that your testimony at the prior um hearing was that the application including the changes would have a substantial detrimental impact on the circulation in the area Is it also your opinion that the application without the suggested
changes would likewise have a detrimental impact substantial detrimental impact on the circulation in the area Yeah I I believe that the additional traffic being put onto this intersection by the by the applicant's proposed hotel is just not suited for
the site Okay that's all I have Thank you very much Thank you Yeah I I don't have any questions because I I believe Mr Simoff basically testified to what he testified at the last at the last hearing Um and our
position hasn't changed and that all of the improvements that are part of this We're the recommendation of the Jersey City Traffic and Engineering Department Uh and we follow them And like any any project if it's approved by the board you're you're subject to continue to uh
address and agree with their comments and recommendations So in the event they they said Ballards we'll move off the Ballards well then we would we would move off the Ballards I mean if the board uh has a position on that you know you you can take a position on it but
ultimately it's it's the engineering department They're they're the ones that control those decisions Uh that's all Okay Um do we have our next witness Thank you Mr Simoff or affirm the testimony you're about to
give the truth the whole truth I do Joseph F Medisi and me sorry me III I think you do Yes like the gallery in
Florence Uh Mr Medisi is it true that you gave me copies of your CV and your license uh to transmit to uh the board's attorney That is true Um and I'm offering him as an expert I believe he's been accepted before I just want to make sure of that that there's not going to
be any question Mr Harrington do you have any comment or objection or statement Yeah I I have no objection Okay Okay Thanks will accept him as a residential real estate appraiser Yes And m and Mr Harrington
was on that email as well So Oh I I I did see that Yes So as a residential real estate appraiser Yes Residential And can you tell us just very shortly about your license because I understand it's a little bit more than that Your license I'm a certified residential So
I'm just just one step above my father So you can you can do a full building up to up to up to a four unit I'm sorry Okay Okay Never That's okay We're we're That's all right I'm not going to belabor it Yeah Repeat the Repeat the
question and repeat the answer You can In addition to being able to appraise units you can appraise a multi-unit building up to a certain size Is that correct That's correct Okay Um wait a minute council That wasn't the prior statement What is that number sir Oh
sure um up to a four unit multif family And you know we're not offering him as appraising the saffron You understand that We're gonna have this problem because Mr Council we're not we're not going to argue The court reporter is trying to take a verbatim transcript He can't change the statement that he gives
He has to repeat it And that was the answer he gave that he can appraise up to a 4unit building That's what he said So she needs to make sure that she gets a verbatim transcript He's not allowed to change the statement That's all He can correct the statement He can give
supplemental statements but she is attempting to take a verbatim transcript And I want the record to be clear That's all That's fine Then what I'm going to clarify about the record is that the number of units in the building that he is allowed by license to appraise is irrelevant which is what I was trying to
move away from I really don't like having to play zone defense Man-on-man is hard enough I'll just leave it at that So is he accepted as a w an expert Yes he is accepted as a registered
residential or certified residential appraiser which is what he said he is Thank you Okay that out of the way Are you familiar with the two report documents that were introduced
immediately before the testimony of Mr Monferat at the last hearing Yes I am Okay Thank you Have you reviewed them Yes I have Okay Thank you very much Um do you have anything that you feel it's important to point out about either or
both of those documents and the accompanying testimony that Mr Monfrock gave at the last hearing Yes I do Um if you'd like on the appraisal review report page nine
Um if anyone would like to flip to the page excuse me page 10 Sir by chance do you know what that was marked as Oh I wish I don't It's applicant whatever it was I believe it was the last exhibit the last hearing
Which which one This is the appraisal The appraisal report The appraisal report document Page 10 Page nine I have it right here Thank you
I find a statement here that says there is a floor premium consistent in both the Newark and Maxwell building First of all there we're not speaking about two buildings when we're speaking about the saffron We're speaking about one Um just to be clear
the Newark is a wing and the Maxwell is another wing of the building They're overlooking different streets Um in this report it's mentioned the significance referring to our presentation being careless and negligent be because we did not
apparently account for a time adjustment and um a size adjustment on the units we used when we were making an example of the importance Sir just one second because I think I'm looking at is this
the appraisal book that you have They look very similar I was confused last time too I thought they were this There's two One's an appraisal Appraisal review report One's a market study but they look almost the same on their cover Council can I just ask the witness I'm
looking at the appraisal review report Proposed development The appraisal review report on page 10 The second page of this document is dated February 17 2025 The second page That's correct Okay
that's right Yes Okay Page 10 You were just testifying about page nine which at the top says page two of Medici presentation I'd like to speak about page 10 Okay So
page 10 Let's go to page 10 I misspoke Um we're Can if I'm speaking about page 10 Is everyone clear on that So the part that you just quoted is on page 10 Everything I've spoken about so far regarding a page has been page 10 Yes
Okay So we're on page 10 Yes Okay At the very top of page 10 it is acknowledged that a floor premium is consistent In our presentation we noted the floor premium
by giving examples of two units in the saffron identical units uh in terms of size and room count One unit was number 512 The other unit was number 312 The only
difference between these two units was their floor location Also of note they were sold within the same month This report claims that we were careless and negligent in our presentation because we did not account
for date of sale time or size of the units As I've just told you these units are the exact same size and were sold nearly at the exact same time So I think this is a misleading statement from the
report Okay moving on Um we've established that the Maxwell and the Newark are not separate buildings They're just different wings of the Saffron complex Same building
just different wings not different buildings It's alleged in this report that the Maxwell building but really unit commands slightly more money It was opined I believe in the
presentation of Mr Montroat that this might be due to the Maxwell being quieter Part of our entire presentation has been that this new hotel will add significantly more noise So if we're
going to all agree that um sound quiet and volume has an issue on um value I don't think that we have much more to prove in terms of an appraisal report Um moving
along it is also alleged that the Maxwell wing um commands slightly more money despite not having quote immediate access to the elevator This is not true Um the saffron
again is a single building All units have immediate access to an elevator Um finally and I think this is my last point on the report Um if we can move to
page um 14 where we have a paired sales summary of different condominium selling prices and whether they are facing or not facing hotels that are not um within
subjects market area but that's another discussion Um so we have four examples of paired sales The first example the Garrison Avenue example um is a significantly lower priced unit And in
appraising um when you're adjusting something for site location size floor location there is a subjective nature to that and the average selling price of a unit in a
complex can help an appraiser figure out how people in that complex are evaluating things For example if you're looking in to move into an area like the Saffron which is a West Village type mom and pop store
condos brownstones and you have $800,000 to play with to buy something Floor location may be of importance to you If you're looking on the outskirts of a city um where there are lots of highrises and your your
resources are limited you may not put such a premium on your view or your floor location You may just be looking for a comfortable place to live And I think that's important when you're looking at these this paired sales summary because I think that is misleading So I think that eliminates example one in this example That leaves
us with a Could you I'm sorry for the record could you just say what those prices were in example one just to make it clear Sure um the selling prices of the um I guess they're the condos in example one are 200,000 and
28,000 whereas you know just to be clear those two units in the saffron that we had used as our example were $880,000 and $820,000 I don't think those are comparable and if I were to use a $200,000 condominium in an appraisal report I was repairing for a unit in the
saffron they would probably take my license away from me well you That's a good thing Um I want to just set the stage a little bit again to to to make the record clear Um there were four paired paired things One one you have testified why you you wouldn't necessarily include it Um that leaves
the three Um my understanding from talking to you is that those three other pairs are actually in the same building Could you talk a little bit about the building a little bit about the neighborhood and then point out my understanding is there's something extremely interesting about one of those
pairs and that the other two support your thesis Okay Yeah As stated three more examples in this in this chart they appear to be all from the same building 652nd Street which I believe is in the
riverfront area of Jersey City which is already riddled with high-rise hotel um type dwellings Um number two um in the example sheet is a is one unit sold for 1.225
225 and that is facing the um hotel The second example sold for 1.5 I mean that's nearly a $300,000 difference facing and not facing Um they're comparable in size So I I think that
actually again sort of proves our analysis to be correct Um again again just for the record the not facing is the higher of those two prices that you just mentioned The not facing yes was 1.5 million The facing was
1.225 Again th those that example is is very far outside the scope of um price range of a of a saffron unit It's not something I would consider in an evaluation if I were to appraise a saffron unit but it's here so we'll talk about it Um let's see So we've got
number three Um also in same building riverfront facing 582,000 not facing 620,000 So again you see a price difference and this is a view This is a
hotel view we're talking about One has one doesn't The one that does not is selling for more money Finally number four And this is the one where I said okay they've made their point here We have facing sold for
635 not facing sold for 555 So I I I I went a little bit deeper with this one and I looked at the units So the one that's facing 652nd Street unit number 316
um is a onebedroom onebedroom one bath The one that sold for less but isn't facing the hotel is a studio There isn't even a bedroom in it So these two units within themselves are not comparable to
one another Yet they were presented here as showing a disparity or a lack of any disparity for view which we've told you there is And we have the same building two units same size There's only a floor difference Um I'd just like to talk
about one more thing Is that okay Yeah Were you the form Yes And just the last thing I'll just add and then I'll I'll be out of your way Um the uniform appraisal database form which is basically the industry standard when appraising um a unit like a condo in the
saffron which I am qualified to appraise Um this form which I brought examples of and I've made copies for all of you The board can take notice if you want or I said if you're unfamiliar with the form and want to see copies of it we can give you copies to look at He's highlighted them and we're happy to mark it as an
exhibit and give Jack Okay I I'm just asking what's what's the purpose of introducing the form I I don't know what the basis is Would you like me to answer that Oh okay So the basis of it is that this form highlights specifically questions that
are required of an appraiser to answer with respect to location floor location I guess the I I can appreciate the the answer you're giving but I guess the question is why is the form an issue Is it an issue Is that
Yeah let me finish that It's not necessarily an issue It's just if you wanted to look at what he was looking at I asked to bring copies but you can certainly take notice He's describing a form and all he's saying is this form in the industry It's the standard form for appraisal and it requires us to look at the following factors and that's why he
did Yeah And if I could um I mean the Mr Medici's father which I guess they they reviewed this together what they presented to the board they admitted at the last hearing was not an appraisal report right So we prepared an appraisal review port This is not an appraisal
report It's an appraisal review port It's a critique of what we we thought initially was being presented to the board as an appraisal report They admitted that it wasn't at the outset at the last meeting So because we were ready to to identify I think all the things that Mr Medici is going was going
to identify now how that lacked that and it could it didn't meet the the the uh requirements of an appraisal report But they they affirmed really said it's not an appraisal report So I just say wait but so I'm not sure what the please is
is of going into this I don't mind So madam chair members of the board as I understood the prior testimony of Mr Medici senior and and sir are you a third or you're not a
third I'm not a third I'm not a junior I have a completely different middle name My middle name is Frank I'm Joseph F Medisi He's Joseph A Medisi So there's no confusion then for me Yeah there you go I apologize So as I understood
uh Joseph Medici Jr.'s testimony he didn't use the form And I'm not I didn't use the form either But my my point is if we're trying to say that units in the saffron will be um
minimized in terms of value there will be a dimmonition in value I'm just highlighting the fact that if I were to do an evaluation if I were if I were to appraise a unit in the saffron I would have to consider these factors They're not just throwaway ideas I can
appreciate that sir I guess that's for the purposes of the board though you didn't do that We didn't appraise a specific unit right But the concept is that overall these factors when they are appraised will have to be analyzed and will be
diminished by the building of the Albon That's the that's our testimony So Madam Chair I don't think we have to have any more information council I don't know I I don't Yeah if if the board wants it it's here If you don't want it I think the point's been made It's a standard
industry form and we've got no problem with the form I know one of my commissioners have a question Mr Splicky Yeah I just have a or comment Not loud enough today Do you hear me Yeah When you talk about
um windows facing a hotel I mean uh the hotel views like what are you talking about Out your front window out the back Cuz I'm thinking about the site and the site No one would be looking at hotels cuz you're looking at Newark Avenue the
courtyard the other buildings the courtyard and then Maxwell the street The only view of the hotel would be that space where the the the lot is there now And no matter what building went there that would be blocked anyhow So that's why I'm trying to understand views of hotels and how this applies to this Okay
one speaker time I apologize I'm going to let him answer but I think I can answer it quicker We are Mr Harington council please we're trying to take a verb a verbatim transcript when the court reporter asks one at a time so I
respect that so commissioner did you finish the question commissioner yes I have yes I thought he had that's I'm just trying yeah I'm just trying to understand what do you mean your appraisal about views of hotels cannot take two people at once
are you finished now I'm What I'm saying is he didn't raise that His Mr Harrington's witness is the one who talked about facing a hotel You are absolutely correct Our units do not face the hotel We don't have windows along what will be essentially a common wall
So it's all apples and oranges And what we're trying to say is it's the wrong neighborhood We don't we're not the ones bringing up window facing but to try to respond to their report that they thought was undercutting our witness
were saying even if you take certain things that they're saying as Joe pointed out to me there are still these problems But I just wanted to make it clear we weren't the ones who brought up windowface and you're absolutely correct about that I think it was a more general point
about the significance of view in a condo unit whether it be a mid-rise a high-rise and how that surrounding area would impact said view whether it be a hotel or um uh a port authority you know it's it's it's just view generally is a
factor in appraising Thank you sir Yeah that this Yeah that's that was my concern And I was just trying to understand what you meant by that Regardless of who brought that up uh because it seems like the only place there actually are views are when you go on the roof And whether you're on the
fifth floor or the first floor you still got to go up to the roof So no one enjoys their own view no matter what It's still the way it is The way the building's constructed street street courtyard on both sides Okay commissioners Let's continue and then this way we'll keep all questions to the end like we normally do Okay Are you
finished or you have more too I think you guys think I've said enough Okay Thank you very much Jay I just for the record um the I just want to note know for the record the the reports that were provided or testified to at the last meeting were uploaded to Tyler 10 days
prior to the last meeting I do have have that you know as evidence of that So there's been you know some comments or testimony that like they were sprung on everybody at the last minute They were on on the Tyler system 10 days prior
Thank you Mr Harrington So council that's the direct of this witness Mr Harrington do you have any questions of the witness I don't We stand by uh our our experts announce Thank you Mr Harrington So now Madame Chair go ahead
We are done with all of the witnesses on behalf of the applicant as well as the objector So now uh we're into the public questioning
of council's two witnesses Mr Simoff and Mr Medici Correct So if is there anyone who has in the audience who has any questions for the two witnesses that just presented this evening If you have questions
please come to the mic Um you'll need to present give your name your address and spell your name for the stenographer Is there anyone who has any questions for the two presenters tonight Okay Okay So Madame Chair we have no
questions of those two witnesses No member of the public wishing to question those two witnesses So now Madame Chair I believe it appropriate to move on to the next portion of the hearing Correct
And they can make comments Public comments So we will now engage in public comments uh we did have public comments several meetings back uh where we had quite a few people came up and voiced their opinions which we have all reviewed So
therefore we are asking if there is anyone who has any comments from either side Um if you have already commented please we are not going to have your comments again We know what your thoughts are and we've read it We've reviewed the scripts again So if there's anyone else in the public that would
like to come up and make a comment again please come forward You need to state your name your address and spell your name You'll be limited to three minutes and Mr Allen will be timing everyone and he will give you um a notice when you have one minute left of your time to
speak Thank you Thank you And Madam Chair I just want to add to that ma'am if I may I would like everybody to listen very carefully If you're going to repeat what the person in front of you or three people in front of you said we're going to cut
you off We would very much appreciate that If you do want your name on the record and you want to agree with what the other speakers have said we will accept you coming up giving us your name and simply stating I am in favor against
dislike and I agree with all the people that said all of the negative things or positive things We don't need to repeat the same thing over and over and over again So we just ask that you abide by that Thank you
My name is Mory Oh I'm sorry You swear affirm the testimony you're about to give in this proceeding will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but Absolutely Yes And for everyone please after that state and spell your full name Okay Moren Huings M
A U R E N H U L I N G-S I live at 37 College Drive Jersey City I'm a lifelong Jersey City resident I was born downtown I was there for quite a while Then we moved to the
Heights then the Western Slope For the past 15 years I've lived in Greenville I'm the chair of the St Patrick's Day Parade Committee which we successfully moved to downtown Jersey City Norc Avenue cuz it's the place to
be I'm excited to see a project like the Albon be in Jersey City no matter where it is I hope someday after we see how successful this project is they decide to do another one and come down to the
west side of Jersey City We're kind of jealous of downtown that they're getting it first This project will bring so much excitement to Jersey City for all the communities in Jersey City It's about the entire city and I hope the board
realizes that and votes in the affirmative Thank you Anyone else from the community Could you please uh line up so that we have you in line to speak Do you testimony about this proceeding the
truth The whole truth I do I do Um my name is Eric Harrison 2756 Kennedy Boulevard Jersey City New Jersey Also a lifelong resident Jersey City Grew up downtown 3043rd Street Very familiar
with the neighborhood I walked the neighborhood as a kid still did as I went to high school This is a wonderful project This is a dream project for the neighborhood and certainly for the community We're lucky to have it There are a lot of benefits that we can see
from it being implemented and I would concur with what was said earlier by Miss Ulings It's certainly a a big advantage to have this in the community Thank you Thank you Hello everyone Hi
Do you swear or affirm the testimony or given this proceed will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth Yes I do And my name is Darlene Maer I live in Jersey City in downtown I've been here for close to 30 years
Spell your full name Oh sure Darlene Den last name Ma M- A S E R Thank you And my feeling is that this is out of character for the downtown neighborhood I it's not zoned for a hotel or the
height and I think we should stick to the zoning rules that were just redone about two years ago Since I've lived here getting around is getting harder and harder I live on Barrow and between uh York and Montgomery It is really hard
to get around There's so many streets that are closed now that you can't go You're forced to different streets And one of the only streets I can go now are Jersey Avenue if I want to go north Every street is has a stop sign It's so congested and from going from Montgomery
to Newark could take almost 20 minutes sometimes because of traffic coming from Columbus being forced to turn onto that The street after Newark which is first only about three cars can go because of the stop sign there from that traffic light So sometimes you're sitting there
for three or four traffic lights to get through and this is only going to make it worse I know ideally with you know people are saying during different traffic times but you're going to have people double parking and people making drops off drop offs and it's really
going to be hard for the people that have to get around I don't think it belongs in this neighborhood Again it's out of character It doesn't look like the Ace Hotel It doesn't even look like it matches It looks like a container trucks on top of a nice building So I am against it I feel like it's not the
right place for this building Thank you Thank you [Applause] Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to proceeding will be the truth or nothing but the truth Yes My
name is James Pew Last name P U G Um I live at 336 York Street in downtown Jersey City been a resident for eight years And just like the woman before me stated I agree with absolutely everything she just said Uh I have two
kids and we love to walk around downtown Jersey City or anywhere we are And I think one of the things that gets forgotten when people talk about traffic is the unfortunate road rage situation And I can't tell you how many times I've
been crossing the street at any moment where we have limited crossings now because getting north across Christopher Columbus A on the weekend in particular let alone rush hour is is darn near impossible So now it's going to get
worse and there's going to be a lot more traffic cars shooting left and right when they don't have the right away putting more pedestrians in danger And I think if we just look to the road in Little India where there's a it's
constantly backed up cars stopped Ubers deliveries um cars going around as a great example of what this will turn into because it's pretty much there without a hotel and cars double parking etc So I am vehemently against this
hotel just from the standpoint of pedestrian safety and traffic Thank you Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give in this proceeding will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do My name is
Adan Moriano M O R E A N O I live at 100 First name A D A N M O R E O I live at 100 Sharewater Court East And I wanted to say that I grew up in
New Jersey in the suburbs I moved to Jersey City 10 years ago because it's a growing city That's why I came here and I love all the new projects that have come over the last 10 years And even those that started before that I am completely for this project And that's
all I wanted to say Thank you Thank you You swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give in this proceeding will be the truth the truth and nothing but the truth I do My name is Craig Zames C R A I G Last name is Z E
HMS And I live at 326 York Street I've lived here in Jersey City for 13 years on the same street I am currently the president of the Vanvor Neighborhood Association in my second term and I serve on the board at the Barrel Mansion and I'm also a member of
the DCNA I represent a neighborhood and wonderful neighbors that love where we live and the historic fabric of our neighborhood We are a passionate group We love the history We love the diversity and we love the volunteer
spirit that we all seem to possess I think that this proposed development is overwhelming in size and it's disrespectful of its historic base It will not be the beacon of downtown as the developer described at one of our
many meetings last fall He's been a very generous man but his generosity to other groups in town is a separate issue from actually this development If you have not visited the site yet I suggest that you do I've
visited it many times I've looked up and I've imagined how big of an imprint that this will make to passers by and to people in the downtown area It will take over a substantial part of the sidewalk It will increase traffic And the simple
fact that they assert that these large delivery trucks will have no problem backing out of this little narrow alleyway even if they were assisted by a valet parking person is is simply ludicrous We believe this should be
rejected And I'm speaking for the neighborhood association And I'm also speaking for uh the historic Paulace Hook Association and they sent us a letter saying that they have reviewed this proposal very very carefully and they find that the
justifications do not meet the standards required by the municipal land use law and they also request that this proposal be rejected one minute remaining Thank you Thank you You're about to give us the truth
I do My name is Kathleen Omali K A T H L E N O Apostrophe capital M A L L E Y And I am against this project Um I'm a almost 30-year resident of Jersey City
downtown four years in Vanvor Park 25 years in Hamilton Park I live 5 510 Monmouth Street And um you know as previous speakers have said this project would be out of character out of scale
for this neighborhood It would be a blight on the surrounding historic neighborhoods and it would be a traffic nightmare not just for cars and pedestrians but for cyclists and people who want to take public transportation And I sometimes do each of those things
And I've just noticed that the traffic in that intersection has gotten worse and worse as somebody else observed And this project will just add to that Um it's not something that we need or want in in
downtown and it sets a bad precedent for more huge highrises to be built in our neighborhood And you know why would we want this You know we we live in this area because it's a humans scale
neighborhood with historic character and the tower that would go up on the old Trust Company building is just charmless So that's all I have to say Thank you Thank you You swear or affirm the testimony you're
about to give in this proceeding will be the truth The whole truth I do My name is Jonas Pi J O N A S P E L L I Uh I live at 234 First Street right across from Trico I'm sure everybody's familiar with it Um I am in favor of this project
Uh I am coming from a hospitality background and what I haven't heard a lot from either side is job creation Um my industry is one that has been under a little bit of attack since COVID and and the rebuilding of the hospitality
industry for me is a very important aspect of my life Um so watching a project start to flourish that has a potential for up to 150 plus jobs local jobs These are inperson jobs These are not remote jobs These are you know day
in dayout residents Probably the majority of the folks that are going to be working here are Jersey City residents And I think that's a benefit that again I haven't heard maybe in the previous uh testimonies from other people but I wanted to bring that up to the board Um the second thing that's very important to me is music live music
Um I want to see more of that in the neighborhood and the inclusion of this recording studio with the you know odd added benefit of having a place to stay is going to attract more artists So if you're playing you know any of the venues in in downtown or beyond the
Albon is going to be a very attractive place for you to look And I think again what I haven't heard a lot of other people talk about is the intangibility you know of of what are these amenities going to bring And and for me it's attracting more live music Um the operators I've done a little bit of
research on them have ties to the Stone Pony and my in-laws live in Asbury Park right across from the Empress Hotel I go to the Pony as much as I physically can And to have a piece of that in my neighborhood is something that means a lot to me Um and the last kind of point
is safety on the corner I haven't heard anything about this very dark desolate corner getting 24-hour eyes on it I mean I know I have countless times walked from the path to you know that area and
at midnight it's pitch black on that corner You're talking about 270°ree 24-hour coverage of an otherwise a little bit sketchy for lack of a better word area And I get everybody's concern with the traffic One minute remaining Safety is you know also a concern Um
that's it Thank you very much Thank you [Applause] Okay What Your other hand Oh the testimony you're about to give in this proceeding would be the truth the
whole truth and nothing but the truth Yes So help me God Okay I'm Sam Pessen I'm the son of Morris Pess the father of Liberty Park And for eight years he was a councilman chair of the historic district commission member of the Jersey City Planning Board and was then volunteer director of the office which evolved
into the Jersey City Division Oh I'm sorry Really for you Oh okay All right I want to get everything in I know you're okay Thank you From then can I start again at three minutes Oh where do you
want me to pick up Volunteer director Okay and he was then volunteer director of the office which evolved into the Jersey City Division of Cultural Affairs My mother moved to 499 Jersey Avenue when she was 8 years old and her parents owned a dry good store in the Italian
Village section I live at 580 Jersey Avenue a few blocks from the location of the proposal What's at stake is people's community spirit and love for Jersey City People take pride in the small town feel of Jersey City The most relevant criterion must be protecting the
character of the neighborhoods which would be severely harmed by radically abandoning the zoning codes The hotel would intrusively forever harm the character and feel of this prominent location of nearby neighbor and of nearby neighborhoods Everyone walking
from all directions toward that corner will see the nine stories out of place and in the wrong place The hotel would be a constant visual assault and would add to and the your decision if it's in favor of it would add to the public
cynicism that developers no matter how well intended mostly get whatever they want in Jersey City I've known Frank and Jeanie Cretella for over 20 years and consider them friends I have a great respect for them as caring and good-hearted people and it's not
pleasant for me to oppose their plan But I know it's the right thing to do and I urge you to do the same To separate your professional decisionmaking from your admiration for the Cretellas The hotel would negatively impact residents positive emotional connection to nearby
neighborhoods The pedestrial itself has a small town public common non-ouristy feel with it to Jersey City sense of place for people to walk through and experience its low-rise businesses and to have fun at festivals So please don't let this inevitable dangerous president
come to be because any developer in historic downtown would say that you threw the zoning goes out the window for the hotel Uh the hotel would create jobs which jobs are important but jobs for a wrong project shouldn't be approved One minute remaining Thank you Just like
jobs to build the 11 billion turnt bike extension or to build stadiums in Liberty Park are wrong Uh if if you all uh unless you live on the waterfront uh you wouldn't want a non-story hotel in your neighborhood The cartel are asking
too much from the board The Jersey City needs you to uphold and not radically cast aside the zoning codes or cast aside the character and heritage of the neighborhoods or cast aside opposition by downtown neighborhood groups Though I empathize with the saffron's rooftop
views and appraisal issues I'm emphasizing the detrimental impacts especially the home to the character of the nearby low-rise historic neighborhoods 15 seconds Thank you very much
Thank you Yes I do the truth The whole truth and nothing but the truth I do Uh Jennifer Harrison H A R R I S O N I live at 2756 John of Kennedy Boulevard I was born in Jersey City My parents were business
people in Jersey City for 30 plus years And I I'm also a commercial real estate agent and I've done retail real estate for 25 years myself And the thing that I look at with this project because I see a lot of buildings like this and I have
a passion for old buildings like this is the alternative to something like this Someone wanting to preserve that which is what a lot of people are talking about would be to knock the building down I mean there's no there there really aren't many other viable uses for
a 5,000 foot building except for a dollar store a liquor store a cannabis dispensary Um I think those are permitted uses at that site So even if you were to find somebody that would lease the building the way it was I don't think I don't know what what type
of a tenant you would get that would be something that would be sufficient to the community Um and and there's no way that rents can be paid to justify this that type of a a building So I mean I'm
looking at a daily discount store on Journal Square that is a different price of merchandise every day That that store has zero parking It brings in trucks and trucks of garbage to sell every day and
there are lines of people around the block waiting to get in Now if I live next door to that I would be very upset But that is I think that's a permitted use at this site So I think you know some of the things we need to look at is preserving a building that is a beautiful old historic building but in
order to do that sometimes you have to bend on other things and I I I really appreciate what Frank is trying to do and I wish it would be a little bit more wellreceived by people from that perspective So I uh definitely am in
favor of this project Thank you Thank you Swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give in this proceeding reveal the truth and truth I do Uh Cecilia Dalon CE c i l i a don d e
l e o n Hi my name is Cecilia Dalian I'm a licensed architect and I've testified as an expert witness at the boards of Jersey City I have lived here for over 25 years and have served as past chair and board member of the HPC and and
currently serve as co-chair on the planning and development committee of Vanvor's neighborhood association I'm also a certified zoning officer in the state of New Jersey So I would appreciate a little extra time to get through my points but I'll be very quick I promise Um this project does not satisfy
the criteria of the granting of commercial use variance There is no benefit for the residents of the neighborhood It possesses it poses substantial detriments to the public and absolutely does not follow the purpose of the zone as stated in the recently adopted master plan Page 76 of the
master plan states and I quote "The NC district promotes low-scale pedestrianoriented development with upper story apartments over a wide range of commercial uses Its purpose is to recognize the importance of neighborhood businesses and to promote walkability This proposed
project does the exact opposite It impairs the intent of the zone There are no other buildings of this height along the entire length of Jersey Avenue or on Newark Avenue and especially along the pedestrian plaza street front And there's no reason to allow a building of
this scale or design at an important intersection of the historic downtown excuse me residential neighborhoods The extreme extreme variances and site modifications which are needed to even make this project work exemplify why this application does not is not
suitable for this location The site cannot support it There are many other hotel options in the area Another one especially with this bulk is not needed here A lot has already been said about the inappropriate use height and traffic issues that this project will propose
will cause Instead of re reiterating those points I'd like to highlight some other issues that were not brought up in the staff memos or I believe were adequately addressed during this hearing Signage and lighting Neither the NC1 district or the
historic district allow internally illuminated signs The NC1 has a maximum signage area of 10 ft Yet this project has a large 55 square f foot internally lit sign on Newark Avenue at the third floor
level This variance is a substantial detriment to the public and surrounding historic one minute remaining Oh and it's not even mentioned early in staff report Um they also have lit fins around the whole building which are not properly detailed in in their
presentation and were not even talked about here I'll skip over the the loading the loading zone Um there's no there there is no loading zone So that is a major variance Uh the trucks have to turn off of Maxwell load
and unload block traffic on Maxwell and then try to make a left on Kohl's Not going to happen The noise uh from the rooftop deck uh is pretty much uncontrollable This isn't Asbury Park on the beach Uh it's not just gonna radiate
backward with the saffron seconds left Oh okay Um anyway it does it's I have a lot more to say but basically this variance the variances proposed in this project are not uh supported by any of the testimony we've seen and totally
against this project Thank you Do you swear or affirm the testimony or best given proceeding to the truth the whole truth and everything I do Uh Thomas Ogresalic T H O M- A S O G O R Z A L E
K Um oh sorry Um I'm a member of the Vanvor Neighborhood Association I've been the co-chair of the planning and development committee for over 20 years I've lived
in Jersey City for over 33 years I also teach architecture and design at the Helier College and I also have an active architectural practice which I've been doing for over 40 years So what I'm going to talk to you about tonight besides the fact that I agree
with everything that was just said um I'm going to highlight a couple of the reasons why those are really important to understand One has to do with the building height And to be clear this applicant came to the VVNA when they first started the project presented to
us in earnest We gave them our comments and responses Everything I'm going to be speaking to you tonight about they have not addressed They came to us to tick a box I felt it was incredibly disingenuine and they said they'd come back and they never came back So one
thing has to do with the building height on the street The building height is over 110 ft That's what they're proposing One of the problems with this is that it completely contradicts what the NC neighborhood zone is about and
what the pedestrian experience is about on Newark Avenue It's a wall And while their planner has testified that eight stories is allowed eight stories is not allowed at the street level it can be set back from the street level but eight
stories is not allowed at the street level because it is an imposition on the pedestrian experience And maintaining the pedestrian experience has to also do with light and air And this is what the pedestrian plaza is about The second thing I kind of want to talk about is the fact that when it was presented to
you nobody really talked about how the shadow studies and how light and air would impact the pedestrian plaza And if you notice the applicant never showed you shadow studies after 12:00 into the afternoon Why Because everything along Jersey Avenue and everything down Newark
Avenue will be in shadow One minute remaining including including people's apartments The franchise request is a problem You've already heard about that It takes away the public space on the sidewalk
and makes a very difficult condition for pedestrians And then finally I will say that um if you ultimately have to vote on this tonight this is not about who the applicants are It's about the intensity of a use that is requiring
multiple variances and the effects are a building that is out of scale with the area and the impact of that is an implication on the pedestrian experience So I would also suggest to you that the applicant has not demonstrated that they've mitigated the negative criteria
for Newark Avenue and on top of that a project of this scale and significance has been inadequately presented to you by the architect The drawings are missing key items that are required Items 15 16 21 22 23 and 25 of the
required applicable drawings Thank you Thank you Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give in this proceeding Yes Uh Justin Gasper J U S T I N G- A S P E R G A S G A S P E R Um I live at 10
Provost Street Um I want to uh speak in support of this project I believe that this uh will benefit my neighborhood Um it will benefit the small businesses along New
York a um especially the pedestrian um plaza Um and I I am excited about the design plans and just want to speak in support Thank you Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give
I do Hi Philip White I uh I live in the Hamilton Park neighborhood of Jersey City I've lived there for about six years or so Uh I moved here for a lot of the ongoing development that's happening in the city Uh it's great to see how how
much the city's changed Um as soon you know as shown the builder has shown a a really strong uh track record in delivering unique restaurants and hotels in the region and you know he makes a really special place for people Uh it's
obviously a family that has a lot invested in their communities Um you know uh there's very high high barriers in this market to to find a site that is a fit for a hotel Obviously Newark A is
a very high density corridor Um you know I don't I can't think of a better place for a hotel and a restaurant Um you know it's a place where um you know your neighbors can get jobs Um your family can have their events birthdays or
mitzvah whatever event And so I'm here to say that I'm in favor of this project and I hope we can move it along [Applause] Proceeding will be
I do Uh you need my name address Yes G A G E W R I GHT Gage Wright 289 Fifth Street Fifth as in the number five Uh hello Uh Newark AB is a commercial
street and Newark AB needs help It is currently dominated by storefronts that have been vacant for a decade dollar stores vape shops places to buy scratch off tickets and dispensaries Um creating this level of friction to development simply ensures that that state of decay will continue This building is beautiful
and historically significant It deserves to be preserved and utilized My understanding is the plans have been found to be compliant by the historic commission and I think we all know they are not an easy audience I've tried to build in this city and I know that personally so that speaks
volumes Uh we need to make it easier not harder to build and preserve nice things in this neighborhood Uh I'm concerned that the opposition to this project has carpeted my neighborhood with posters of a cartoonish super villain's lair I'm sure everyone here has seen the image
I'm referring to If not I'm happy to show it Um this is because the poster if the poster had used an actual rendering of this development people would see how truly lovely it looks And if the opposition to this project requires this level of exaggeration and lies then the
right answer is self-evident I support this project and others like it This is just about the only feasible use of this piece of property Let's allow something on Newark Avenue that is not a vape shop Thank you Good evening
The testimony you're about to give in this proceeding will be Yes I do My name is Maria Germad G U R M A D is in Delta And good evening everyone I've
been address ma'am I'm sorry Address Oh my address is 50 Glenwood Avenue What is that 50 Glenwood Avenue I have a list Sorry I've been a Jersey City resident for over 30 years and I've personally
witnessed the progress of our community Um I think it's safe to say that Jersey City was intended to be a progressive community and not a suburban community or the suburbs Um I personally don't
think I'll have enough time to shower a bit of knowledge on how the Cretellis have positively impacted our community by taking care of the vulnerable population providing opportunities for immigrants such as myself But I wanted
to focus on some of the um arguments that I've heard earlier today So there have been neighboring communities around us like Bayon that have changed variances um in order to encourage developers to invest in their community And it's sad
to see that such a progressive community is still opposed to in pushing away vendors or businesses to invest in our own backyard in our own community Um it's making it very difficult for us to
grow Uh if I have to rewind Leferrack invested in Newport which was once a dump And look at where we're at with Newport It became its own city Um congestion Listen it's been
pre-existing Traffic I drive every single day and I've sat in there I've I I don't cry when they had to take away two or one lanes for to dedicate them for the bike lane Blame it on blame it on the city but you can't blame it on
landmark hospitality Cars driving dangerously Listen my auto insurance for Jersey City has always increased because Jersey City does not have the safest drivers Um one minute Thank you
When others were fearful fearful during the pandemic the cretellas were actually stepping up providing hot meals comfort medical addressing medical needs for our vulnerable population especially the
senior community and I can speak to that personally Um Landmark Hospitality offers a wide array of opportunities for Jersey City residents And again I can speak for that personally
So my last point here is I've been sitting quietly listening to everyone's arguments but I challenged the board and the residents especially the opposed party to not let their um they're they're afraid that their wonderful views of
Manhattan would be obstructed by the change of variance that Landmark Hospitality is requesting But I challenge the board and the residents to try to focus on the bigger picture That's Tom And thank you Um and don't
focus on the cosmetic issue that you have but don't lose vision of what we have for Jersey City Thank you Thank you Hello Hi Do you swear or the testimony you're about to give in this proceeding will be
the truth Yes Okay Um my name is Terry Fox I um my address is 3265th Street Um I'll just go right into it Spell your name please T E
R E F O X Okay Okay Um I'm a 15y year resident of Jersey City I'm the executive director of our local volunteer parent communities Jersey City Moms and Jersey City Parents I also sit on the Jersey
City Women's Advisory Board giving women a seat at the table at every chance that we get We help many people in the community as do a lot of people in the community including seniors veterans and so on Um I also own a business of 8 years
just a few blocks away from this corner lot I have watched the pedestrian mall go from a street that you can drive down to what it is today Adding a hotel to this corner will not benefit the community and will take away the quality of life for all those nearest to this
location We have two hotels less than two blocks away from this location They are frequently reaching out and asking our parent communities to share their hotel specials When we go and have events there they also let me know that
hey if you have an event or we need to get more business in here like share share share They are never booked They're never booked There's always rooms So you know that's something to be said So there's two hotels Why add a third if they're not happening So with that said so while
jobs may come from this how long will all those employees have those jobs This is an ego project for a developer who does not live or raise children in JC Every professional who spoke up for this project in the previous meetings the
architects and so on they also are not residents or have ever lived in Jersey City It is deeply disturbing that they were allowed to make such judgments on our neighborhood our city without such experience I walk with my family I ride
my bike I drive my car I live my whole life on the daily in and very near to this location I am all for development when it serves the community I do not support this project as a high-rise hotel I do support a restaurant or venue
yes but not this proposed project as is It is important we protect this part of JC Uphold the current zoning laws and protect those who have invested their life savings to be the greatness in our neighborhood Please say no to this project Please Jersey City is a family
community It always has been Let's keep some of that you know Let's keep some of that please Thank you You swear or affirm the testimony you're bouncing into the truth the whole truth I do Anthony
Sandamp Um I have been a resident of downtown Jersey City for 24 years I moved my business to Jersey City I was in 111st Street when I first moved out here in 1998 Um and for the last 22 years I've
been a commissioner on the historic commission One of the reasons I've been on it as long as I have is because I think probably like most of you I feel like I I I need to be there to make sure to that people get equal justice and
that um that equal justice is is paramount to me Um if we give relief to one applicant I feel it sets a precedent and we need to give relief of the same type to another
applicant unless the applicant is giving some significant benefit to the city It has to be a benefit It has to be significant um when we give relief or when we give
um an approval it's to the property It's it's not to the applicant And in a perfect world um it would be better not to even know who the applicant is Um and that way we wouldn't have to consider that What we
really need to consider is what will this do to my city in the future And so I'm against this application I'm not against the applicant I think the applicant sounds like a great great family a great business person and I think this application would be
excellent somewhere else in Jersey City just not in this location Um and despite whatever promises that are made by the applicant zoning approvals are forever and with the building and the land and not the owner And the promises that are made are
not enforceable And once he sells the project or turns over control of the operations to someone else which he has every right to do those those things that he said might disappear And it's a it could be a sub a
substantial detriment to the public One minute remaining And I find it disheartening that the applicant and the city don't consider them as much And it's insulting to the city to the citizens of the city and taxpayers of the city to have to spend significant amount of money and time to defend zoning laws and ordinances that are
already in place The culture of the building of building in Jersey City has to change We have to become better at this and the residents of Jersey City deserve better Thank you so much for your time Thank you for closing public
Since there uh I think we've heard from everyone who has attended this evening Um so with no other comments from the public I'm going to close the public portion of this meeting And at this time I'm going to have um comments or questions um by the commissioners from
the commissioners Um I have a question and I have a question for the architect if I may Swear yourself in Mr Carbio I'm sorry Swear affirming I
do Jose last name Carbala C A R Bs Mboy A L L O Okay Um since we've been at these meetings quite a few times I sort of lost track who mentioned it but I one
thing that caught my attention was the fact that they mentioned that on the outside of the building on Jersey Avenue Um apparently there would be a lift if I'm not mistaken where
um diners will be able to dine and then they this would be outside of the building if I if I've correctly uh understood Uh outside of the building where people will have to walk underneath this sort of sc whatever
floor or something Uh is that is that correct Not that I know of We're not putting a lift on the outside of the building We have elevators but they're all inside the building Yeah I don't know who mentioned that And I And I don't know So you're talking about the outdoor dining on Yeah outdoor dining It
was supposed to be outside or something What was that Is that supposed to be elevated So so we Thank you Yes I'm sorry So so we do have a dining area that is uh outside of the building Uh it's not a lift It's just raised to meet the uh floor level uh of the the
restaurant itself Uh and yeah that is on uh Jersey Avenue Uh yeah that sticks at about 8 feet Um and that's a dining balcony or terrace So how are you going to how do you propose to do that What what what I don't know I just can't see
it Maybe uh you know how do you propose to do that Are you going to close off Are you going to come out of the building Are you going to break the windows What exactly is that going to entail So if you recall the uh the building has uh five windows on Jersey Yes One of the windows is going to
remain as is and then the other four windows uh are going to be um the the lower portion of it it's going to be removed and then we're going to have doors that will allow the inside of the restaurant to come out to the outside of the restaurant So it's going to be the same floor It's it's like a dining
terrace Uh if if you've been to restaurants that have outdoor eating it it's the same concept So Mr Carbio maybe I can help with the question that the commissioner's trying to get at the interior of the building the old bank
building My recollection from when I used to go in there with my grandmother is you go upstairs that you're not on street level Is that accurate That's that's exactly what I just explained Yes you do You do have uh it's it's about Oh it's a different height It it's about 3
ft off the uh uh the sidewalk itself Yes This terrace is about 3 ft out from the sidewalk And that's what you're talking about The terrace is going to be 3 feet above the sidewalk What's going to be from the
sidewalk to the floor of the terrace Can you go under it Is it like a wood deck No that that's all enclosed It's going to be a masonry uh build um extension It's just like the building itself Uh as a matter of fact we're whatever we're cutting out of the windows we're pushing
forward to reuse as part of the railing that uh that's going to be you know around this uh this terrace So yeah you cannot go underneath it Does this uh leave enough room for the space that's necessary the walk space for people with
disabilities So we do have a 5-ft uh area or a 5ft distance between that and where the bicycles are between that and up to the bicycles So the bicycles can stay there and there still is 5 ft of space for them to move 5T Okay I I think before we ask more questions I I think
we need to take a break Um so we're going to take a 10-minute recess for so our stenographer can uh court there can uh rest her fingers Okay So it's um let's come back at about um it's 7:36 So can we say 8:45 That's only 9 minutes
Bridget is that I'm sorry 7:45 9 7:45 So about 10 minutes Okay Is that it's on Okay we are at the point where we are having we closed out the public portion
of the meeting and uh we are going to continue with questions from the commissioners Um and we still have the architect up Did you have the is are you there putting up your plans to answer the question Okay I'm sorry
Yeah but I wanted to see it on my screen Thank you Okay Thank you so much All right Go ahead So what you see on your screen right now what you see on the big screen is a side view from Newark Avenue towards Jersey And and that's where that terrace is and and that's what you're
looking at This this is the terrace right here Uh as you can see there's nothing underneath it is is completely closed in Uh the thing that we've done with it is whatever we're cutting out from the windows to open it up it's being brought out to the front so that the building itself you know parts of the building components of the buildings
are brought out and made part of this um of this terrace Uh even the grills that you have in the building right now we're going to bring those out and we're going to include it as part of the design uh of the uh the terrace But as you can see it's it's not open below Nobody can
crawl in Okay So it's completely enclosed Okay Well that's not what I when they were speaking That's not the perception You know you you you picture things in your mind That's not what I pictured But I can see there's a difference However this is going to be a little cumbersome considering you also
have the bicycles and the trees around that area right So so well so so we we do have um we do have the terrace we have that sidewalk and when we say 5T that's at the critical point It's not throughout it That's the critical that's the closest point that the bikes gone to
the uh um you know to the terrace Then beyond the bikes you have the trees So the trees are now closer to the road okay Or the street So this would be closer to Maxwell I'm I'm sorry Would this be closer then to Maxwell This goes to Maxwell Yes I
see Okay Okay Good Thank you You're welcome I I just have a quick question Um um talking about the restaurant how is it being vented How is all the You You will have a duck that goes through the roof and and out the roof Up to the
roof Okay Yes Any other commissioners have questions Yeah that outside portion that's going to require a franchise agreement with the city regardless right I'll leave that up to the legal minds right Chuck They would have to do franchise agreement with the city They have to
agree to it That's correct It goes before the city council Okay Directly Um last meeting there was a talk about the valley parking and some other stuff and I think I brought up an idea I don't know if it we've addressed it or if you
guys thought about it or whatever because someone made a good point from the public about uh I think it was the gentleman who was speaking today on traffic from the other side about valet parking have to go down two blocks and all around and I sort of had a suggestion to just put it right in the
back so they could pick up in the back drop off in the front so there's not cars all over the place Yes And I could speak on behalf of the applicant Uh we thought it was a great suggestion so that we would have uh the the guests pick up their cars within the garage Uh
so you have the system they they they will go from like the lobby uh into the garage area and just you know they have those apps these days or wherever they do it and then that eliminates that concern about going down to Kohl's and and all the way around So you they pick
it up in the garage they they go out turn right and they're gone I have one other question This was this goes back to last year when we started this whole thing That's how long it seems Um it had to do with the the roof
the aortionment I know you changed it in the very beginning Um and I believe it was because of the shadow study that that's why there's a little more height Actually that's why there's more height to the top because you actually reaportioned what was there before and
that's why it went higher so you could address and accommodate the lighting and shadows Is that correct I just want to make sure I heard that right from way in the beginning That that is correct What we did is we we picked the building apart from that side and we took that side and that's where we have one extra
floor Okay But that side is is lower to allow the sun to actually be able to shine on the other property next door But it's not a full extra floor It's a partial extra floor because you move part of a building over there in order to accommodate that Correct That that is correct
Okay I have no more questions yet Just my comments later Question Anyone else No Um I just refreshed my memory I do remember or I thought I remember that there is a fire hydrant on that corner Uh Maxwell and uh
and so we was looking at the how the trucks were going to turn there and come back Is that being moved Is it being relocated There's also a light there or something being moved or I No there's not a light there It's just a fire hydrant on that corner I I believe the testimony was the with regard to the
fire hydrant We can Yeah this is okay Yeah I believe the testimony with regard to the fire hydrant is that we would review that further with uh city engineering uh and u if if they want we we can move it we we we can commit to move it if uh if
that's something that they would they would want want done Well I'm just thinking those trucks to try to turn that is going to be Um and I think I heard that it's the city that recommended that you move that curb out uh all the way out make that circular curb That's correct
Okay One one other thing I'm assuming that obviously because a lot of things were this mentioned and brought up at different points regarding traffic and some of the designs and the the the bumpout and the buses and everything
else that if this ever got approved that there would have to be and there would be uh further discussions with traffic and engineering on even addressing some of these things that were brought up in this in in this you know overall hearing because there are some concerns
that maybe they overlooked or didn't overlook But I'm assuming there's more back and forth when it comes to final you know when you get to the construction phase or moving forward before you actually do anything just to make sure that no one overlooked anything That's correct Is there more coordination with review agents after
approvals uh to address and comply with review agent comments as part of every project Okay Okay Um if there are no other questions or comments from the commissioners I'd like to hear from staff Okay Ready
Okay So uh Francisco prepared the memo uh that has been on the portal I believe since last year I guess summer of last year Uh that is what I'm going to go off of because that's what's been on the portal this whole time Um and I'll just take it from there Uh he was the person
who reviewed it as you know he's left So I am taking it up Uh just for some reference as to how long this application's been happening Uh when it started my son was 13 Um and now he has a job and he's graduated high school So
that's how that's how long this project has been going on Um so I just want to talk a little bit about what I think you guys hear every two weeks and it becomes a word salad and you don't listen to it because it's
words and numbers and letters Um I'm sure you hear NJSA NJSA B 40 65 blah blah blah Um but it's really important for me and you and the board to understand what that means right So the D variance like we always talk about
this right That's where the statute is right So MLUL the municipal land use law gives this board powers and within the statute it lists all of the powers that you the things that you can grant variances for and this board can grant variances for Dvarian Those are serious
variances right Those are variances that um will have an impact on the neighborhood on the on the general welfare And the idea is right the whole concept behind it is that the person in the area or within 200 feet has the right to know that something is going to
be substantially different than what they know Right So that's that's the whole purpose for it But in this is the most interesting thing to me of course because I love this stuff In 1975 the municipal land use law introduces special reasons instead of
hardships for use variances So in 1948 when we were really all starting about use variances we were talking about hardships and we were focused on use variances But in 1975 the courts decided I'm sorry the legislature decided that you could grant a Dvarian for a special
reason not just a hardship So when you look in our appendix which I don't know if you have ever have or when you take your class they give you a flowchart right So when you're looking at devariances and it's kind of like a flowchart checklist that you're going to see So it's a
devariance and your first question is going to be is it an inherently beneficial use No Right The hotel is not inherently beneficial use Okay Are they asking or claiming that there's a hardship in this instance I we can get into that further
but not necessarily No So then the court's to say that the next thing you can do is provide your special reasons Now those special reasons are listed in the beginning of the MLUL and that's why
you you always hear NJSA 40 55D 2A B C D when the legislature wrote the MLU they decided that these were special reasons special enough to grant these significant variances and those were some of the things that you had to show
I advanced the purposes of the MLUL of the zoning for this So that's the first thing that they need to prove And in this instance at least um I'm going again to review the report that Francisco gave you this way there's not any
confusion and I believe I I the report I don't want to I don't want to testify for the applicants uh planner but I just want to go over some of the things I think that Francisco called out right So uh see to provide adequate
light air and open space Again uh the this the comment here is that the shadow study that was done by M Michael Graves showed that the building is expected to have minimal negative impact on this on the surrounding area Uh while there are new shadow casts the effect is temporary
and limited and most of the shadows being cast are during the fall and winter months which is when we expect shadows Okay Francisco says I so promote the desirable visual environment through creative development techniques and good civic design So there's aesthetic
enhancements contributing to a visually appealing streetscape aligning with the district's purpose G to provide sufficient pa space and an appropriate location variety of commercial uses both private and public I think that makes a little sense So
we're providing a a commercial use in the area so that there is a variety of uses right and J which is the one I want to talk about right now is to promote the conservation of historic dice districts open space energy resources
and so on and so on So in Jersey City which is actually very unique in New Jersey we have a really tough demolition ordinance I I know that I think a lot of people in Jersey City think we don't um but we have probably one of the strictest ordinances in the state and
people copy our ordinance Um there is there are designated districts and there's a process to get designated and those become historic districts or landmarks and those projects those buildings they all are all all regulated and enforced and reviewed by historic
preservation and potentially the historic preservation commission which is the board for historic uh for the historic district Then there's all these other things right And the law said that as long as the master plan has given intention of
the inventory of buildings that it believes right are eligible for some kind of historic nomination anything like that that meets some criteria it can list it in its master plan inventory and then the city has the right to
review it Right So anything that's in our inventory and our inventory is extensive uh gets reviewed by historic preservation All demolition in Jersey City whether you think it is um valuable or not Um and some people yell at me
maybe on a monthly basis because there they think there's no value to whatever it is that they're one-story industrial boxes gets reviewed by historic preservation The first thing that historic preservation is is going to do open the master plan Of course the first thing they're really going to do is make sure it's not in a historic district The
second thing they're going to do is open the master plan and look at the inventory This building was on the phase 1 historic inventory That means that not only did we decide in the last 10 years that this was important we decided in 1985 that this building was significant
enough and important enough to be at least called out and to put and added onto the phase one So no this is not the preservation we call it sometimes we call it preservation light whatever you want to say but um
it's enough that a demolition would be denied in this instance So whether you consider that a legal hardship or not and this is where we'll go back a little bit to the hardships right The courts have said and the MLUL says in some
instances a hardship can be a legally existing condition Okay that's fine So they can still work with what they have right So but I want to I just want to like kind of emphasize because I feel like it was kind of deemphasized during the meeting that there's no there's no
value to this building is first what I heard that because it was not enlisted on a historic district um and a historic preservation isn't being done So our experts our in-house experts that's Maggie O'Neal who you heard testimony from I believe a month ago It could be
two weeks I have absolutely no idea at this point um recommends approval and says that there was enough here Let me see I don't I don't want to I don't want to paraphrase her uh the HBC does not anticipate an
adverse effect on the identified historic research as a result of the proposed work and that every not everything that there are things that are being preserved um and it is retaining all the previously described architectural integrity to a building that is a key contributing feature to
the Newark Avenue streetscape Okay So in Francisco's opinion and in mine that mean to me that that meets the purpose of that zoning act Right So there is a purpose of a zoning that is being advanced historic preservation Uh again light and air So then what else do we
need to look at when we're looking at devariances You should come to my class It's really interesting I think I'm a little bit better in the class than this Amen But I want to talk about because I want it to make sense to you right I want it
to make sense to everybody The next thing you need to do is find out or figure out that the use is particularly suited to the property Right So what does that actually mean It means why is this location of the site particularly suited to the use
despite the fact that the zoning doesn't allow it And second what are the unique characteristics of the site itself that make it particularly appropriate for the proposed use rather than a permitted use A lot of people use the word precedence but I need to make it clear that the
MLUL that case law calls out very specifically two words unique and particular And it has to be that there is a reason that there is a difference here And the reasons that were listed for this evening or for this whole case one that is a corner property Two the
location the size of the street Um basically the fact that it is I think four times the size of a permitted site a lot within the within the district um I think right so site
suitability and then finally the enhanced burden of proof which is really just talking about the master plan reconciliation right so if it's not a permitted use we have to go back to the master plan and we have to see or reconcile with reconcile why it wasn't listed as the permitted use And the
master plan does call out Newark Avenue as a medium neighborhood center corridor suggesting that the uses and the developing um development density mixeduse core surrounded by medium density up to eight stories So the
master plan does call out the fact that Newark a is considered a medium neighborhood center not a small neighborhood center and that the use and the density and the intensity can go up to eight stories So we can reconcile that with a master plan And then the next and the final thing that we kind of
have to do is that public good right What is the impact to the public good and the general welfare and the purpose of the zone So we need to go back to what the purpose of the zone is recognize the existence and importance of neighborhood business districts and provide ground flooror
commercial and mixeduse buildings to promote walkability Um the city has invested $14 million in the Newark AB ped plaza Um and this would be right at kind of the entrance of the Newark a ped plaza Uh and so and I believe it's only
a 5m minute walk from the past station So the use which we actually haven't talked about yet right The use the hotel use is a is a a compatible use for this area But I also want to talk about what is a hotel right This is a conversation
that we have a lot Is it residential Is it retail Is it commercial Is it a little bit of both So uh the applicants uh the opposition's planner called out the fact that hotels were not listed in the NC2 and the NC3 zones when we did
the resoning I want you to know that was intentional because of this application I did not want in the middle of a application to add another level or to make a decision when you guys were in the process of being able to make that decision That was intentional the
neighborhood commercial zone would have cons I would have added hotel uses in many instances where retail is permitted in much more I think general little let's say less stringent areas like journal square where hotel
where retail is hotel is permitted so it is a mixture of that it's a retail sales or service um and it is also residential so you can stay there one day you can stay there 28 days Right And the actual idea of the fact that the hotel is coming and giving more life to the
pedestrian plaza Again that's $14 million And why do pedestrian plazas fail in some places and not in others And it's really about getting people and feet on the street and getting them through the area That's what makes the difference It's part of the reason why we can't really haven't yet been able to
have a successful pedestrian plaza on the south side of the city Okay So we've talked about the use variance Let's talk about the height the D6 variance D6 not like D1 in the sense that you don't have to prove that the site is particularly suited for the use
You have to prove that the site can handle the use or the height that's being proposed I don't know if you could see that difference It's a little bit subtle right It's a little bit less of a burden to prove And so some of the standards that you need to be able to prove for a height variance they're not
the same as the use variance And that's why in our chart we list some of the things that you need to prove is that you're limiting the density in order to preserve light and air of adjacent structures Are you maintaining contextual density within
the zone Are you advancing the purposes of the zone And you need to show that the proposed height will not offend the purpose of the height limitation and in turn that if you grant the variance you're not disrupting the purposes of the zone So we talked a lot about the purposes of the zone but we need to talk
about the height and the damage or the det potential detriment that it could cause I think when we initially had meetings about this um there the height was throughout the majority of the site and over time the height has been shifted and moved to the corner Again
there's a lot of um urban conversa uh conversation around urbanism about having corners have more of the height and again this is at the entrance of the pedestrian plaza Um so the height for an open plaza is appropriate and in the
shadow studies that were provided is showing at least for the adjacent structures the fact that the height was moved the shadow studies kind of are less less of an impediment to the surrounding structures
Okay Um and I think at least that's the conversation that I kind of want to bring you through I know I gave some of my opinion and that's that's what it is But I also want you to use that same structure that I had to have that conversation with yourself and with each other obviously on the record council
promise not not anywhere in secret Um and then I'm going to read in the conditions of approval should you choose to approve it Give me one second Okay These are pretty standard but all
materials and colors shown on final plans uh can't be changed without approval by planning staff even if those are uh changes that need to be made by construction code I would also ask that I'm going to jump ahead The the um bump
out the uh outdoor seating requires a franchise approval by the city council So even if you approve it and you say it's fine the city council is the only one who can approve something like that in the right of way Should the city council decide not to I would request
that at least I be let known that somebody lets me know e we can continue to do an administrative amendment or not But I think it's important that that get added in there Of course all the testimony and their uh acts applicant and expert witnesses shall be binding
All street tree landscaping shall be done in accordance with forestry standards and the forester uh will need to review it prior to the issuance of a co memorialized resolution Uh the green roof installed prior to the issuance of a co Um the applicant will provide an
affidavit from the architect Again these are all pretty standard The applicant shall comply with all conditions stated in the historic preservation memorandum issued by Maggie Um I want to say further that when we get to the construction drawing phases I please uh we need to be in constant uh
conversation about that with Maggie with HBC the franchise um on all the conditions uh stated by the review agents There's a lot of comments in there by traffic engineering um and the applicant shall receive approval from city council for the on street loading
proposal That is my testimony Those are my suggested conditions Thank you Okay Do we have any more Okay Uh is are there any other questions or comments from the members of the board the
commissioners Okay Okay So Madame Chair I think it appropriate now we can uh allow the two attorneys to provide closings Uh council I will advise that we limit it to 10
minutes 15 minutes at the most I don't think uh we need to go much longer than that Kind of like a pellet argument I think 10 maybe 15 minutes for each of you Council you go first and then we'll hear from Mr Harrington
Great Thank you very much Mr Lampy And thank you very much guys for listening so well and so carefully and asking such good questions over this long long application Um and I also have to thank Miss Mariam because she's done a great great job and she saved me a little time
so I can hopefully be shorter She did a beautiful job of setting forth the statute requirements I as an attorney am going to talk a little bit about the case law that modifies somewhat of what she said and again I also know she and I
have had a little back and forth on this before She's working from as she said a report that was written by another person in the summer um in response to the application and I don't think they'd even gotten to hear the applicant's testimony and certainly hadn't had the benefit of hearing um the interested
parties So that's you know they've done a very good job setting forth the core from the statute as applied to the application as it was filed with them One of the things I did check um the memo on the traffic says that they
support the idea of lifting the pavement at Maxwell So I do think that came from the applicant but again Mr Harrington's the attorney I don't want to say he's misspeaking I think it was if it matters for the record we'll certainly be able to clear that up That was certainly how
I read it Um and that the Ballards were an attempt to make that a little bit less dangerous So having said that leaving that aside I will on occasion come back to a couple of things that um Miss Marion said and a couple of things that some of the public have said because I think that's important to put them in
the legal context Also oddly enough um Mr Harrington the applicant has the burden of proof Normally the lawyer with the burden of proof goes first right And the lawyer who doesn't have the burden of proof who's pointing out the deficiencies goes next I'm going now
It's actually not bad because I can I can talk about what Miss Marone talked about Um but I'm going to have to ask you to keep my points in mind when you're listening to his points Um so she's absolutely right The D1 is
the most serious variance The legislature in their signing statement on a 1984 um amendment called it the legislature called it the most drastic departure for municipal development regulations And that covers everything you have to do
because if the if the variance is too drastic that arrogates the planning and governing bodies functions Um it was interesting as Marian said she might have actually as for planning recommended to the governing body Of course they do the ordinance that a
hotel used to be here What we don't know is what the bulks would have been and whether a double the size building that the applicant's been very candid has been very candid and also seems like a great guy and and I joined Mr Peasant in in saying that But he candidly said the
hotel rooms support the event spaces right People come to the event spaces because they know that they can stay in the hotel and the event spaces draw people to fill the hotel That he needs both And that to me describes why when they first came in to my clients and I
think the other neighborhood associations it was a much smaller building um it was more in keeping with the height and it was just little boutique hotel But I think they themselves realized oh my gosh there are already hotel rooms There's another apparently the Jersey mom's lady was telling me there's a boutique hotel not
far away I think it's on Gro Street We're going to need to do both And that's why you heard about the excitement the buzz the beacon the use of this corner property as something I apologize I have asthma something that
the building it was going to draw attention to the building We have also heard a lot from the public about how this is a great use for the city It'll bring jobs We want to be a city that's progressive that's not against development It will bring jobs It's going to have a cooking school The
Cretellas are great people I'm not denying any of that in any way but it is not the legal test And it's specifically not the legal test because we have a legal test for a building and a use of that sort of general well-being And
that's what Miss Marion alluded to That's the inherently beneficial use And that's the inherently beneficial use which our court um holdings also say you know they're great uses Everybody wants them Nobody wants to be next to them and
their hospitals schools nursing homes Uh the characteristic when the seeker case was a brain injury clinic halfway houses homeless shelters uses that serve the general welfare and they got to go somewhere This is not that and it can't
be analyzed that way And that means that they do have to show that it's specifically great for the site The site is specifically great for it And it's not a balancing test They also have to show that there will not be substantial
impacts into the neighborhood nor substantial impacts to the zone scheme And it's not a balancing test You can't say "Well this is a great project It's only going to hurt the next few just a little bit you know." No and it's only really going to hurt the zoning scheme a little bit Maybe not all that badly No
it is not a balancing test It is a multi-part test Does it meet some of the planning objectives And you've heard Miss Marion talk about them Um you've heard Mr I think Ser the the planning and traffic talk about them You certainly heard Mr Stack talk about them
and I'm sure you've reviewed them They're a little vague I mean A is general welfare Um as older court cases have said anything kind of helps the general welfare And that's where the particular suitability comes in because it's a D1 If you're not allergic
hardship and I'm going to get to hardship in a minute because I think that's where the bank comes in You can't just say "Oh you know our really tall building but we promote light and air because we've moved the height over to one side The shadows will be worse there but they'll be better here." That's not the test for a D1 It has to be it has to
not only be able to be asserted to meet some of those very general parameters which anything can It has to also be specifically specifically particularly suited as she as she said to the use and it also has to not have significant
impacts either on the neighbors or on the zone scheme Um and it's the burden is on the applicant to prove it Um we've talked about the NC zone how it's neighborhood uses for for the neighborhood residential Um the particular
suitability test I think often comes down to a question of this this use is prohibited at this site Um if the use could have been foreseen this use not just a generic hotel but this use could have been foreseen Does it fit so well
with that NC zoning that requires low hide along the street and requires neighborhood stores that it would have been zon because if not then then you're arrogating their powers if you if you approve it That's one way to look at the particular suitability test which courts
have struggled with In fact Justice Hones in Price versus Agi does her best to set it forth It's hard but it's like is it so perfect for here that come on of course it would been zoned for if we could zone by by lot and if we could have envisioned this Most of these uses
that come in as particularly suitable excuse me but not zoned for excuse me are new uses that couldn't have been anticipated Cell phone towers A lot of D1's zoning law was made with cell phone
towers They weren't zoned for And in fact there was some question are they inherently beneficial You can make that argument And so it went over there But there also say well they're particularly suitable They're showing that there's a hole in this area They need it Um um out
parcels sometimes Excuse me There's a parcel of land that has become an out parcel in the zoning I took my medicine I'm sorry It's not it's it's asthma Do you need a water or something like that No I don't I I actually have my inhaler with me and I took it I apologize It's
just only can do so much Um out parcels although Oh thank you That's so nice of you Thank you very much Um um where especially where you maybe have development that has changed the character of the surrounding zone Now there's case law that says that just
because you're next to a zone that approves it and so or move the line a little bit you don't get it But sometimes really the character has changed And yes you can say they couldn't have thought about this when they were when they were zoning We don't zone lot by lot anyway Okay it's
particularly suited because it's become a large commercial street It's become a place where lots and lots of tourists want to go This is is not that This is a use coming into a very wellestablished neighborhood that has established itself
because people who are paying a lot of money for their for their houses know that they're going to be count able to count on the zoning that this corridor not a couple of blocks away but this corridor is going to be everybody the same height so their views don't get
changed from their roofs um neighborhood stores I I actually feel very safe I was I was you guys know this is my first time in Jersey City I was extremely surprised and shame on me how safe I felt all times a day there and how many children are there Um I think you guys
know the neighborhood I'm going to presume you know it better than I do It is a very familyoriented neighborhood It is a very I want to say Greenwich Village Hobokenesque I think we've heard some of that in the planning testimony Um so it's not the sort of thing where
normally a D1 happens Um there's the negative criteria also have to be by enhanced proofs and with all due respect to planning staff this isn't a close call legally it's not a
close call legally when you look at medichi um when you look at the various cases which you're you're familiar with and if you know if if anybody needs me I will I will put them in um but they're just the regular regular zoning cases um
you don't have um you can't really separate out the D6 the height variance from this It is part of the use that's being proposed If it were being proposed without the D6 it would be a very different use It would
be much smaller The impacts would be concominantly smaller It might have the restaurant plus a few you know maybe the rooms and maybe not all of the other traffic and music and noise generating things that would have Um there are two
things where sometimes D1s are given um if they if the use enhances um the circulation or parking For example if you're coming in with a use I think on this one we've said again the applicant himself has been very candid
If you remember the very first hearing um I asked again his traffic guy said "Well your your traffic analysis is is everybody's coming and going all at various times What about an event where everybody comes and goes pretty much the same?" He said "Oh that would be that would really not be good That would be awful." And so Mr
Cartella either said himself or told Chuck to say "We're not going to have events." And then at the next hearing in November came up and said "I misspoke We got to have events We're going to have events with at least 125 people." And I don't know I don't think there's been testimony whether that's 125 people in
the total building I don't think so Or 125 in the restaurant plus 125 in the hospitality suite plus 125 on the roof He's trying to limit it some He also acknowledged that the parking would be difficult His expert had just said it and he said "Well what we're going to do
is we're going to contract with Marriott Uh they have some spaces now that they're not using and we'll tell our guests to park there and we'll run a shuttle bus." But you heard the the conditions that it's impossible for you guys to make that a condition of the application because you can't guarantee
that the Marriott will have extra spaces and neither can Mr Cartella We also don't know there's been no testimony about how that garage in that redevelopment zone where the Marriott is was sized um how many parking spaces for the general public if you have a use that's bringing in you know 125 people
at a time that may also overtip those public spaces and I think that's why he's working with the Marriott because they have dedicated spaces for them they can if they want contract out to him I have also made the argument on the record that the notice um is now invalid
I didn't want to slow things down but I think what the board should do is say you know they've really roped in a whole another site We are now talking about this site but it's going to have parking on this other site that's not before us
that we haven't talked to the owner that we can't control that we can't put a condition on And that the owners the the owner himself and his own expert have said will be a real problem We really acknowledge that We've got to do something about it And they're trying But trying doesn't cut it legally
because the legal test is will there be an impact And the legal test is not will there be an impact that they've mitigated That again is inherently beneficial world In inherently beneficial world you basically get a pass on the positive criteria You're a hospital You're a nursing home And then
you look at the negative criteria All of those have some impacts And so what the board is supposed to do in those situations and you may have had one of these is you say can you mitigate the impacts Can you have the shadows be at least a little bit bad Can you have the parking be kind of less ownorous And
then you balance the mitigated impacts versus the benefits from the inherent beneficial use We're not in that world This is a D1 commercial variance with no inherently beneficial use that's been asserted And you don't get to balance and you don't get to consider by law
mitigated impacts They have to be substantial which means not trivial right I can't say "Oh well I would stub my toe." But I think the volume of people who've spoken to the neighborhood I was making a little chart and as far as I could hear and and you guys can hear yourselves most of the people
speaking in favor of the project were in favor of the Cretellis They were in favor of the project in general They were favor of it anywhere in this city would love this project It'll have jobs That's fine The people against it were the people who are going to have to suffer the impacts They were the people in the neighborhood the people in the
most immediate neighborhood Um there's there's the applicant pointed to um 85 ft tall buildings a couple of eightstory buildings at the very far end of the downtown New York redevelopment zone that is two long blocks to the east
of this We remember we had a bunch of testimony on that We said "Well they really aren't that close They're actually pretty far." And the question that Mr Ste went into with a lot of his analysis was "And they're supposed to be in the middle of the block They're not supposed to be creating this wall up
along the street Um plus they really shouldn't be alluded to as precedent Oh this building's not going to be that bad And then turn right around and say "This building's not going to affect the zone scheme This building won't um make that
neighborhood commercial The next person who wants to bring in a use that's really not going to serve the neighborhood They're they're not going to be able to point to this building." Well they're pointing to tall buildings I understand why they're doing that Um but but unfortunately the test isn't a balancing test and it's also not a test
of well what's it like in other zones That's actually the opposite because that suggests that this zone can get nibbled away nibbled away nibbled away and the fact that there was that the applicant started going around to the groups with a smaller building kind of
an as of right height building and I wasn't part of that that I think people didn't really like the hotel roose and I think he thought in for a penny in for a pound I'm going to make it big and stupendous and awesome and it is awesome but it's going to have a huge impact on the neighborhood and I think one of the
people here was saying not just on the saffron people those shadows are going to be on everybody you know across Newark and shame on me I probably should have had Vic do the shadow study for them but he really knows his building and so he showed we're going to have bad shadows early in the morning I think
across the street as well the effect on the pedestrians as well the effect on the traffic as well and some of the applicants own sense of is this site perfect because they haven't really thought through a lot of the operations
You really can't ask this board to vote for a use that the law requires to have no bad impacts no substantial impacts So say we're going to figure out the safety issues later You can't do that and let the record reflect I was flapping my
hands Um same with the valet parking operations Same with the truck parking operations Those issues have to be looked at now because of the legal nature of what you're being asked to do You're being asked to approve something
as perfect for the site that has nothing that anyone really could complain about Oh but we're going to work out the garbage and the noise and the traffic and everything later And the last thing I'm going to end with is again the thing that that that I learned and then I'm
going to have this cough drop Um that human voice that the unamplified human voice no matter how large the crowd doesn't violate a noise ordinance I'd like to leave you guys thinking about that I didn't know that That is again they've been very candid That's going to
be huge and apparently doesn't violate the noise ordinance as long as there's no artificial implication no matter how large the crowd is and you know the associated clinking and and all of that that adds up to the noise So I don't think this is a hard call and it's a hard call because the applicant's very
sympathetic and it's a hard call because planning staff put together a really good memo based on the application It's not a hard call legally Um whether it's Mr Lampy or whether Mr Leagley is back and is writing a resolution for you guys and um we're pro it's going to go up and
get briefed either way up to the judges I think it's just really not a hard call unfortunately to deny this this application Maybe not one that's only 70 ft high This application at this location with these impacts and with a
lot of the impacts still supposedly to be figured out later the law it's just not a hard call The law doesn't permit you to approve it Thank you very very much Thank you Okay thank you
So my closing here is going to have nothing uh no relevance to the order I I know that the order of presentation was was directed by Mr Leaglia So I'll I'm going to you know provide the provide my closing uh statements um as if I had
gone first as well Now as an overview I you know I've been doing this a long time uh in Jersey City I about 25 years now so it's a long time Um I think this is one of the most intriguing applications uh that I've been part of
Uh as Miss Marion said it's been going on for a long time Uh I think it's also one of the most exciting projects I've been a part of Um the uh and and this board as you know over these last this is the fifth hearing You've been
presented with a lot of testimony um from experts and fact witnesses um on behalf of the applicant and and the saffron um and the community Um so it's a lot of to digest um what's before
you but what I I would also ask you know as this board knows you're you're all residents of Jersey City You have personal knowledge of Jersey City That's why you know you're on this board that what you bring to this application and the review of it is your knowledge and
experiences within Jersey City and and downtown Don't disregard that Okay Um and this project there's been some talk about precedent Um this project is not going to set precedent Uh I know the members have been on this board you you
hear it all the time Uh each application stands on its own merits Uh each application is different Uh so you can't judge uh one you know come I you know I can't come in next week and say well you you proved it up the block Um that
doesn't happen we have to prove that we justify the statutory criteria This application is also not about Mr Cartella Uh yeah he's you know he's done a lot for for Jersey City Um and and he's terrific guy Uh I I've
known him for a very very long time but it's about the project and the property Uh and whether it's appropriate Um and that's what you're looking at And when we're looking at that well first so there's there's two issues here you know as as the board's aware We're looking
for a use variance to permit the hotel use and we're also looking for the height variance to permit uh the the project as as it's designed Um and there are a few a few other um a few other uh ancillary uh C
variances that that were also presented But what we have here is you have a hotel with with these accessory uses that include the restaurant uh the rooftop bar the art gallery recording and podcast studio which are essentially
retail uses All those accessory uses just for the record they're permitted uh uh in the NC zone Um and then what we're also um proposing here and that's why again you know adds to the unique nature
of the use um is you're talking about an art gallery uh for local artists Um there's going to be uh co-working space available in the lobby for the general public You have access to gym to the gym uh within the building to the people
within residents within a twob block radius Uh there's as I said the podcast and recording studios which is something that's that's unique uh and part of this whole boutique hotel uh uh presentation or or uh commitment Uh then there's
there's a commitment um that would again the these would be part of any operator of this hotel as part of this approval would would be required to to have a training center for the hospitality industry Mr Cella has has his his uh training uh set up but that would run
with any operator of this hotel Okay You also um you have you know have these opportunities to with with those programs you're you're creating jobs here You're creating careers and opportunities not just for this site but
for the future So um let's talk about the the the hotel use you know as noted um in the very beginning of our presentation and as alluded to by Miss Marion um in her comments yeah the hotel use is not
specifically permitted here but it has been recognized as a permitted use in the Journal Square uh60 redevelopment plan area as under the umbrella of a retail use Um so there you know there is precedent there that it as as Miss
Marion testified or or stated it's kind of a mix Is it residential Is it uh uh is it um of retail use You know it's but it it's a little bit of both But I also want to bring it back to the you know
when the we started the NC1 the NC2 and the NC3 they both permit hotel uses The NC3 as I noted allows buildings up to 110 uh feet in height And then there was some talk about this this property here
is 13,000 square ft So it's actually five times the minimum lot size of 2500 square ft in the NC1 zone And there's been talk about well why wouldn't they change the zoning and the the uh when they did the the changes to the NC2 the
NC3 Uh you have the NC1 and as you heard Miss Marion talk about they didn't want to change it during independency of this application And I know that the NC1 had just been changed prior to the master plan being adopted And I know that that
was a long and arduous uh task uh between planning and and and community groups So you're not going to change it in the middle of this This has a 2020 application number It's kind of let it let it go before the board because that's that's the per one of the
purposes of this board You look at the uh I want to call this this lots an outlier you look at the lots within Jersey City that they they can't be covered with the broad brush of the zoning whether you do you know a current master plan or not This is not you know
zoning out in Hunter County you know where it's easy We chop things up you know and this is Jersey City that has evolved over hundreds of years Even the zoning in place when you look at the the zoning map and all the redevelopment plans it's still evolving So you're going to find the outlier lots And
that's that's why we're here and that's why this wasn't particularly covered by that Um so we do have um we we have the obligation uh and and the burden to show you um that we meet
the statutory criteria The first the first part of that is the positive criteria right And as part of that we need um we need to demonstrate special reasons What does that mean It means that the property is
particularly suited for this use and we are and that we're promoting the goals of the MLUL the municipal land use law and that's where I I believe the presentation over these five hearings we have we have uh we have shown that uh
our our planner testified that we are um as yeah these are numbers letters that that Miss Marion referenced letter uh earlier you know we're we're satisfying saying um uh a we're promoting uh general welfare This is going to be an
economic uh uh promoter here It's it's it's uh and that's that's promoting the general welfare and because we're going to promote all this economic activity in the commercial center North Avenue downtown is the major commercial corridor downtown Yes we have
residential and we have great neighborhoods to the north to the south but that is the commercial corridor and we're there right on the corner Um we also have uh satisfied and promote the goals of historic preservation as we're
preserving uh the historic resources and adaptively reusing uh the bank building Um you know and there was some dispute whether or not it's a historic building or not but I think it's clear from from the testimony before this board that it is a historic building We we went in
knowing that this is a building that we're not going to be able to take down It's it just it's just not going to happen And um and I think that was uh supported by Miss O'Neal's testimony Uh we're also advancing uh I which is uh
the advancement of visual environment through creative development by taking the former bank building uh and a parking lot which a parking lot is the worst use in an urban area Nobody wants a surface parking lot and it was formerly a drive-through parking lot as
well with a curb cut from North Avenue out to Maxwell Um so we're taking that we're creating this this I think it's it's a terrific looking building at the end of the pedestrian plaza Um we're also um that kind of leads you know
leads into G where we're providing uh sufficient space in an appropriate location for commercial uses this um you know this this location at the end of the pedestrian plaza and along
commercial and along North Avenue it's going to serve to bring people from Grove Street to uh down to Jersey and vice versa You now have that pedestrian plaza You you don't the hotels to um to
the east you don't have any incentive or or reason to go go this way But now if I'm staying at you know at this hotel I'm gonna get off the path I'm gonna walk down that pedestrian plaza Maybe I'm going to stop in a restaurant on the way you know and grab grab a burger or
or do whatever I stop in shops I have a corridor literally to to bring me to this hotel Uh and that's that's part of the you know the reason too that the city has evolved And that kind of goes back to your personal knowledge too I
mean that you know I go back to when I was in high school It's at at at Prep St Peters Prep in the early 80s There's not going to be any hotel downtown right This has evolved over so many years where this is an appropriate location uh
uh for it And I I think we I'm going to go back to the uh reference to the testimony of the the president and the CEO of the Hudson County Chamber of Commerce was here and told this board how he believes that this is a much needed use and it will benefit all of
the commercial activities along uh North Avenue And well now we you know we turn to well why why would you do it here It's this property specifically It is a unique location at the end of the
pedestrian plaza It is an oversized lot five times bigger than the minimum lot size Um it has three corner It's a three frontages Has Jersey Avenue North Avenue and Maxwell Street And there's been a lot of testimony about Maxwell Street but that's an important component of
this because it is going to allow us to use Maxwell Street to get into the uh the garage to service uh the the loading and unloading And it's a one-way street right There's been some you know talk about backing up you know out of there
Well we all back out of our driveway right You pull in and you back out And that's that's that's what's going to happen here Um we're not backing up into Jersey Avenue That's that's uh I think that's been testified to It's not gonna you know that if you look at the looked
at the plans Jersey Avenue is is it's way back there It's not not going to happen But uh so you're not gonna find this type of lot this size lot in the NC1 downtown there As it was testified here it's the
second biggest uh parcel uh downtown The only one bigger is the one next door Saffron right Um but that one's already developed This one isn't Um so you're not going to find another parcel that's probably with three frontages like this
Um this that's a unique loca unique situation where the Maxwell Street um downtown There's a few on on this the north side of uh of North Avenue that have little alleyways behind them or uh but those are like very very very small
alleys So Maxwell is a unique uh situation Um and you know the fact again the fact that this pedestrian um plaza has evolved and is directly across the street is is
um makes makes this you know a unique uh situation Quite honestly 15 years ago maybe maybe it doesn't work Maybe it's not as unique and as appropriate but today I I think it does I think it's uh appropriate Um and as our planner you
know testified when you he did a you know an inventory of all the lots in the NC1 downtown and most of them are 2500 square f feet or less The zoning for the NC1 zone was created premised upon
smaller lots the 2500 square foot lots And this again this is the outlier lot This is the the lot and the property that is why you come to the planning board because we've got something that is unique that can go here and we've got
the 13,000 square foot lot Um let's see what else Um and I I do I do think we have you know reconciliation uh wi with the the master plan as as noted by our planner and in in the planner report Uh it does
mention um Norc Avenue and medium-scale neighborhoods being you know six to eight stories Uh in this here we had at one point had an eight-story um building and we went back to the drawing board back in in July and and condensed it so
that we we would have uh uh create more uh view corridors on on the north and and the south side of the building But we took that and we did we condensed it and we moved it up But you don't have a nine-story building here that's taking up the whole lot Uh and it's a it's it's nine stories and then you have the wings
that are open Um and it's also uh you we talk about so I you know I think it's particularly suited for this for this use uh for all those reasons but um we also um the the historical significance of the bank bank building
is is very important Um you know Mrs O'Neal uh testified here that that it's absolutely uh historically uh significant Uh and it's not a situation where we're here trying to and I've been involved in a lot of these applications
where we take the back of the property in the building knock that down and you're just left with the front facade This is an incorporation of the entire building and and I don't think that that should be looked at lightly because incorporating this this building
into the overall project was not an easy task You know you're dealing with a tremendously solid building that you're incorporating into a new use Um at the same time you're preserving it We're we're restoring the windows uh we're um
you know doing other other elements to to to kind of bring that back to its prominence down downtown is uh is you know I'm sure a lot of people probably had accounts there right um so we are proing promoting the historic uh
preservation um the again the the uh excuse me the location is is particularly suited being at the end of the pedestrian plaza we also have a hotel an urban hotel that's that's so close to so many options for
public transportation right You have five minute walk from from the path station To walk down a little bit further you got the light rail You've got buses on Norc Avenue and you got everything there you know where an urban hotel you're most you know we had
testified that we we anticipate maybe seven seven cars a day because when you're going to hotel in in a city you're not typically taking your car or you know a lot of people don't I mean I you know if you're going to Boston you know you're like take a take an Uber
take you know it's like that's in the city it's not going to be vehicular dominant Um and here when I talk about the particularly you know particularly suited um I think it's interesting when you you
you look um you because you have to you have to um weigh the the the credibility of all the witnesses right The experts and and the and the fact witnesses but more so the experts And I said when when Mr who's a terrific planner Um but when
when he was asked as his opinion you know did he think this was appropriate an appropriate use the hotel use at the end of pedestrian plaza he dodged that you know if you recall that he didn't he didn't answer you know and and I think that's I think that's telling I think he
the easy answer was no if he didn't believe it right But he didn't say that He he he dodged it So I think you have to look at uh you know his his testimony when reviewing uh or his his answer there when reviewing his analysis Um this is also particularly
suited It's going to serve as a connector not only from Grove Street to Jersey Avenue but the back end I'll call it from from Jersey to the hill just before you go up to Dickinson That that's a large part of North Avenue
downtown life these days that that is an area that was built up within the last 10 to 15 years that that saw the uh the rehabilitation of uh the White Eagle Hall right So now you've got a connection and I I remember working on that White Eagle Hall application years
ago and the concern was are you going to get people coming all the way down North Avenue Well they are going down avenue and now this this is actually almost like a middle point to create the commercial district down there Um and this is you know it's unique as well
because it's a b boutique hotel It's not a large hotel chain that you have to the east along the the water And and it's also I want to make a point It's not an event space That's it's you know it that's a red herring argument that's being put
forth by the uh objectors It's a restaurant restaurant space within the hotel We have an art gallery within the hotel Uh the restaurant space similar to any other restaurant is a gathering place for people and if you want to gather there and have a small wedding a
small bar mitzvah a a small birthday party Well that's an event Yes Did we come back and we carved that out We we at the second meeting we're kind of like why did we say that We were going to paint ourselves into a corner If people want to get together and have have a
wedding or or some other event that's fine But that's not the primary use here It's not being proposed as an event space Um so we're we're getting very close to 15 minutes Oh I'm sorry I I'll I will I
will try to speed up So for all those all those those uh reasons I think it's particularly the location from across from the pedestrian plaza uh downtown the corner lot with three frontages the existing building being adaptively reused and being downtown close to
multiple public transportations supports the conclusion that it's particularly suited for the this use is particularly suited for the property and it promotes the purposes and goals of the municipal land use law So let me try to get through my uh my height variance uh or
the the negative criteria I'm I'm sorry I'm I'm I didn't anticipate to be so long in the tooth here but um the building will not be substantially detriment to the public good and will not substantially impair the intent of the purpose uh of the zoning ordinance Substantial is the operative word here
right That's that's the the the predecessor It's not it's not detrimental It's substantially detrimental Um and that's the test So you know we showed a shadow study that demonstrated that the the shadows going to be brought um cast upon uh the
neighboring property or are minimal They're in the morning They're minimal Uh you had uh a shadow study presented by by the objectors It was not by it was not by you know um a professional that was sworn in um for the purposes of this
this board but it also did not show uh an analysis as to what the existing condition would would create nor an as of right building would create So I think what we've shown demonstrates that it's not a substantial uh uh effect on
on the property uh next door Um we're also not a we're not blocking any views from the windows of any of these units Right These units face into the courtyard and out to Maxwell Street and North Avenue
No windows face east and and that's uh it's all about the rooftop right I think under substantial uh detriments that their objections and you know I don't discount that if they're they're on the roof you know and they want to see see uh do east but they can still see
northeast southeast to the north uh to the north to the south and to the west all terrific views They have adequate light and air So we don't believe that there's substantial detriments there Um and we also demonstrated that if you had an as of right building here that that
would also have obstructions to the to the uh views to to the east probably more so because the building could be wider and and uh at 72 or 76 feet Um so you're not again that goes to whether or not it's a substantial detriment
Um let's see and we also just kind of the board can come to their conclusions but with regard to the the you know the valuation testimony that's presented I don't think that that that proved anything Uh when
you you're telling me that a high a unit on a higher floor is going to sell for more than a unit on a lower floor That's that's going to happen whether you have a project this project there or not I I don't think it changed anything Now
um I'm sorry There there's uh a number of u improvements here that are being made uh around here Again those those site improvements and off-site improvements were the recommendation of the the Jersey City traffic uh and engineering
department We believe that those make it a better project We're not saying you know we we said yeah if they wanted us to change them fine But we're not saying that they're they're they're bad improvements We think that they all work Um talk about the uh the outdoor uh
elevated cafe Again that's the reason as as Mr Carbio said earlier the reason for that is you have the interior of the building you walk up to So you can't it would be very awkward if you had a a sidewall cafe at grade level because
then you probably end up you know bastardizing the the side of the wall to go down there We're we're trying we're trying to make it elegant and so when you walk down that pedestrian plaza you see that and you have the eyes on the street you the street activity Um and
I'll talk to Sorry sorry I'm going long I'll try to wrap up here on the uh the height So the height is um you know one one um part of the criteria you could use in improving a height variance is a
hardship We're we're not we're not doing that The working with the with the uh bank could be considered somewhat of a hardship because it makes things difficult but it uh that's not that's not where you you uh you start and and
end your your argument there Um where am I So the test yeah the test you know were for the the height variance is it's not hardship's not the only criteria Um you want to you want to show that the
height is not inconsistent with the purpose of the height limitations in the NC1 zone and then the height is consistent with the surrounding neighborhood Now as as we demonstrated most of the lots within this NC1 zone are 2500 square f feet So
if you had a 2500 foot lot here I think the argument is different But we have a 13,000 foot lot here that can can accommodate the height We've also we've also um shown that there are zones right next door the R3 zone and the redevelopment plan uh zone across the
street that allow eight stories and and up We have a building right across the street that that allows buildings you know eight stories uh and up Now the the the objector's planner wanted to condense this into properties just
immediately uh uh immediately next door I don't think you can do that I think you have to look at at uh up and down Columbus and and the the larger neighborhood there and you see tall buildings there and and it's a it's a within blocks within blocks you know
he's trying to show it uh within within a few uh uh within just directly adjacent So I think we've satisfied I think it's consistent We've shown that there there's high there's there are taller
stories there that the um we're even at nine stories the building is providing adequate light and air and minimal uh det minimal detrimental effect on on uh with the shadows Uh so it's it's consistent with the intent of of the
height uh limitations within this NC zone and it's uh consistent with the the taller buildings within this area So with that said I I I think we have a terrific project I think we meet the statutory criteria I think it's you know as far as uh you know particularly
suitability I think it's the poster child for particularly suitability and I I would hope that the board agrees Thank you Mr Harrington think the board would indulge me to just we're not going to a couple things I cut because I held at the
time I didn't mention the bank and I didn't mention the view on the height I knew council this is all argument the testimony has gone on the board is ready to do the board's work so I understand
that you held to the time I understand that Mr Harrington went 5 to seven minutes over but it's not actual evidence It's argument And I think both of you actually set forth the same standard which is what I was going to
tell the board from a legal perspective They set forth the same standard and so did Mrs Mariel And now this is where it's unfortunate to have to actually be the person to vote on the application versus everybody else in the room that
gets to watch you and then decide you don't know what you're doing or you hate Jersey City or what have you So or love Jersey City whatever the case may be So I would tell the board this You've sat here You're all
volunteers You've listened to five hearings worth of testimony 10 hours of testimony You heard what the standard is You heard
about this concept of particular suitability of the site The positive criteria the negative criteria Most people in the room don't know this but you guys hear this every two weeks we go back and forth and not me because fortunately I'm at the
planning board and I don't get to sit with you guys every two weeks I'm over there sitting with that board every two weeks But every two weeks you hear about particular suitability questions and positive and negative criteria You've
sat through the courses You've been on the board You've heard the testimony You hear the planners You've got three planners You've got two attorneys You've got traffic witnesses You got public's opinion You have to weigh the evidence You have to ask yourselves the question
whether the evidence shows that this site is particularly suited for this application and then whether or not the positive and negative criteria are met I can't make that determination for you
Nobody in this room can make that determination for you You've heard the evidence and now you have to decide That is your charge That is your oath That is your duty If you need guidance if you struggle we are here to help you figure
out how to get there If you don't need any help I'll tell you what I tell the kids Great Do it And that's it So Madame Chair you can always call for a motion whenever you want Council your comments are noted for
the record Okay Do we have any other questions now that we've listened to both attorneys Okay Um I am asking for a motion uh to vote with conditions on Z20-043 Can I get a motion I make a motion that
we uh Oh sorry I make a motion that we take up a vote on uh Z20 D-43201 North Avenue with the conditions Yes Can I get a second I second Okay Mr
Beasley would you please take Chair I think we have to make sure Is that a vote to approve the application deny the application and what type of conditions are we referring to if any I assume well
let me ask the movement of the motion It's a motion to approve or deny the application based on the the conditions that are put forth by the pling department to approve Yes With the
conditions set forth in plannings memo memo memo Yes Okay So I have one question Um I was doing that and I was told to change that but okay Um now can I ask one question You said we could get some guidance here Um my concern after
listening to everything is that about the traffic and will the will will will the planning board or whatever you guys be looking at the traffic once again or is it already settled I mean can we go back in and take a look at anything with that curb cut or anything like that I
mean I'm just asking that question So with respect to the pending motion with the conditions it's as it's stated as I understood those conditions it includes the incorporation of the comments from
traffic and engineering Okay It is also subject to the condition of getting a franchise ordinance out of city council with respect to the raised uh patio space in the application Correct Okay So
we have a pending motion We do not have a second yet or we did have a second Yes we have a second We have a second We have a second Okay Does that satisfy your question Yes it does Mr Beasley can you take the vote Commissioner Patel Yes Approve
Commissioner Bole approve Commissioner Burns approve Commissioner Baron approve Commissioner Zlicki Um I just want to say a few things
Um it it's funny I'm born and raised in Jersey City too My grandfather's born in 1910 downtown His father came in 1888 And um I've seen the city been part of it my whole life Uh it's amazing to
see uh the bank where I had my little deposit when I was a kid now being discussed here today for such a um major project Um there were a number of things that were said by Tanya and I'm speaking because I believe one of the uh one of the uh or a couple of the public members
in the beginning when this all started seems like a long long time ago uh asked if we would when we if I vote or when we vote if we had some comments as to why we're doing it Um a number of things were said that Tanya addressed and was done in closing
So I don't need to go into all of that but I just wanted to make a point of a couple things Um and that's the uniqueness of this location Um this part of Jersey City uh both on the Newark Avenue side and the Jersey Avenue side are neighborhood commercial
as we all know but they are also part of the restaurant uh and entertainment overlay which was put into place in January of 2012 to push and promote this part of Jersey
City It used to be just two blocks of Newick Avenue but now we extended it at that time for the entire length of Newark Avenue and Jersey Avenue and other districts in the city so that they could grow economically as a city grew with it And the purpose of this was to
create an amenity or amenities not just for the neighborhood but for the entire city to enjoy People from throughout the city come down to Newark Avenue to eat to have fun to enjoy themselves to stroll with their kids too as well And
that really is what that location's about It is an amenity for the entire city Um the the we had a number of of business people that were here in one of the first meetings And I talk when I say business people I say some of the restaurant owners small business people
um I believe the SID president was here and a few others all asking or I should say encouraging such a business to open there because it's a benefit to them uh and as and as such a benefit to their employees many of which also live and
work in different parts of Jersey City So when we look at this we have to look at this project as something that belongs to Jersey City not just the downtown And in in in looking at all this and in in hearing the testimony um the the corner property stuff I know
that's something we went way back with and we always the city always pushed to have u more development on corners because it sets up blocks and I know that's a um a a a pattern and a a a a an element that they often utilize when
they make their decisions Um but in doing that and looking at that this location as a hotel and the one thing that's important to to to to u be aware of or to remind everybody is that if
this application was being brought today for the first time this use probably would have have already been approved by the city as part of their plan already So the way it's all happened uh it's been a long uh a long trek Um but I
wanted to make sure that we didn't forget the fact that you know Jersey City is a big place and a growing place And I know um it's tough sometime Uh there were issues that were very um uh very clear regarding traffic and other
things That's why as you saw some of the commissioners and I suggested that um as this goes forward with further plans or as things if if it gets approved and and become goes into fruition that of course the traffic then gets looked at because our traffic patterns seem to change over
and over again That's one thing I'll agree with Our traffic in Jersey City really needs to be addressed and aside from this project but um that should definitely be looked at um the views and other things I mean Jersey City has been
a a a a growing city Uh you have views one day you don't have them the other and that's just part of unfortunately or fortunately uh growth And looking at the testimony and and some of the other things um I know part of a view's taken
away and that's always from the roof Uh that's always you know something that you look forward to or keeping Um but there are some there are great views I used to go on my roof when I was a kid in Jersey City and I used to like to look west and see the sunset You have
all of the west all of the the south all of the north and part of the norththeast uh still has views you uh I saw from the pictures that were honestly the pictures that were presented in um in evidence that even all the chairs on the roof
were actually facing south because of the fact that it's it's such a great roof probably to catch sun and and other things But um there's always a little give and take in all of this and preserving that bank uh being able to afford and the ability to preserve that
bank build something that's viable uh something that Jersey City needs that the downtown uh business community needs that Jersey City itself as a whole needs um the jobs that come into play um the
ability to to advertise Jersey City through a project like this I think is important So as a result of all that and of course I I've listened to this I have loads of notes um for for lack of not wanting to repeat some of the things that were said already With that I'm
just going to vote yes vice Okay Vice Chair Rule Okay I'm not going to be as as lengthy but I will say that uh um I'm still not
sold on this outdoor outdoor seating uh space But you know I'm going to let the Dury City Council take care of that that's not going to be But overall I think this building is and and as Carl said I've been here for the last w almost 70 years and I grew up and have
been in downtown most of my life So I'm very aware of what's going on with the development all over the city I don't agree with a lot of it I agree with some but not all Um but I do like to see that there's an opportunity for a restaurant
to actually be open maybe a little longer than just starting at 4:00 and actually getting a sit down meal without having to get a sandwich or a pizza or something And I know a lot of my friends and I I'm a senior and I have to admit that but I like to eat early and nothing
is open until 4:00 You have to wait until 4:00 to actually eat anything So with that said I I I vote yes Chair Coyle I might as well follow suit with my two board members So quickly I
have to say first thank you for filling in tonight Um and this was a very difficult decision for me I've gone back and forth between no and yes Um and it's it's very difficult I've looked at it all I've listened to um the homeowners
in that area I've listened uh to this side promoting it Uh some of them don't live there but it's okay Um I happen to know um the work of the Cretellis and I'm not basing any vote on what I know I mean they probably don't remember but uh you had the store that you opened up in
the the uh regional day school and I was there and been down there with Dr Lyles Um but so I've gone back and forth This is a very difficult decision for me to make I've listened to the traffic patterns and like other people I've been here born raised bred and still remain
in Jersey City Um I am going to vote yes because I think it's a beautiful building Um I think it will add to the community and Jersey City downtown where I've lived for so many years is ever changing Um so I'm going to say yes uh
to that Okay Motion carries to approve Um seven in favor none opposed Okay thank you Thank you Um do we have uh do we have any me any
resolutions to memorialize uh Tanya Do we have any resolutions tonight to memorialize Nothing Executive session Okay I make a motion to adjurnn Can I get a get a second Okay meeting adjourned