##VIDEO ID:hTi1UeUpFd0## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e Rich they say know much about the veins e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e [Applause] good evening the time is now 7 p.m. and I call to order the town council meeting of Tuesday December 17th our last Town council meeting in 2024 we begin with an invocation followed by a moment of silence and then a pledge of allegiance if all those that are able will join me in standing dear God grant us wisdom as we are faced with making many decisions that affect us as a community amen amen let's have a moment of silence please join me in a pledge I pledge aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all call please mayor Katy here vice mayor sunstrom here councelor Delaney here councelor for here councelor may here Town manager Kito Town attorney bar here okay now we move to Citizen comments this is the time for non-agenda items and they're limited to 3 minutes anyone wishing to speak is asked to State his her name and address for the record prior to addressing Town Council Council generally doesn't discuss the items uh during this portion of the meeting any issues raised or referred to staff for investigation and report is forwarded to council uh do we have any citizen comments yes Linda mcdermit good evening Linda mcdermit 107 Chadwick Drive before I forget I want to wish everybody the town Town Council happy holidays so tonight I wanted to make a comment um mixed juice properties bring a lot of different activities together to make life more convenient but they also present some parking challenges and in many new developments and with repaving of parking spaces throughout South Florida I noticed the parking space sizes are shrinking and there are less available as new developments and mixed used corridors get approved with inadequate parking spaces often sharing spaces and at times this results and overflow parking into residential communities and Open Spaces making parking spots too small can end up causing dings to cars and parking over the line not to mention issues getting in and out of vehicles um while we're all in agreement to preserve our green spaces we need to make sure that any additional Properties or Renovations especially within mixed use quarters allow for adequate parking and activities do not result in overflow parking that encroaches on other properties or results in traffic safety issues I urge the council and developers to always consider the impact on existing communities who were there first listen to their concerns as well as working with Professionals for creating and keeping Jupiter's footprint and quality of life I do know that this Council always um makes a mention parking concerns but with so many more developments and redevelopments it's just something I've noticed as I visited relatives and friends all over the place they seem to be making these spaces smaller I've witnessed mothers with their kids in the carriers trying to get in the car and can't get in anymore because the spaces are too narrow um so it's just uh because I've seen this just lately in the last two weeks I thought it was a good idea to bring it up with some new developments going on our mixed juice uh concerns that many residents have had over parking as well um another thing I wanted to bring to mind I've been going to a lot of the great uh activities in Jupiter for the holiday and I was coming out of Harborside just before the uh boat parade and a lot of officers were out there directing traffic which I was very glad to see but their reflective vest did not reflect very well um those who had the wands were okay but those who did not have the wand uh they just did not reflect well so I'd like for you to look into that um I do know from working at Police Department that you can't use fabric softener thank you next we have Chris St Nicholas ho ho ho everybody CHR here how's everybody tonight I'm also known as Santa Claus thank you for having me give my three minutes evening Mr Mayor vice mayor Town councilors hi Tommy Frankie how are you I am Chris St Nicholas better known as Santa Claus I had the great pleasure of spending time some time with the uh conscientious hardworking and dedicating employees of this wonderful town last week after making my list checking it twice I'm happy to report that every single town of jupyter employee once again is not naughty they are extremely nice I know that you feel the same while making my list I discovered that you find folks while being elected officials are also town of Jupiter employees I thought I'd take advantage of my final visit this year to Jupiter and see which list you may be on I may as well start at the top mayor kety I remember you as little Jimmy as far back as I can remember you always loved Christmas and we're always happy and very appreciative of any president you re present you received I knew long ago what escalate into adulthood your Christmas spirit is uniquely displayed each holiday season with a wonderful Lighting Display at your home you have been an institution while serving 23 years on the Town Council your vision and transparency has not gone unnoticed this year was a milestone year for you as you retired from your career as an engineer with the electric company congratulations little Jimmy vice mayor sunstrom always good to see you malise ever since you were a little girl your smile has been infectious people always seem happy to be in your presence your commitment to public service is very impressive you have been to many places both foreign and domestic with the sole intent of helping people from all walks of life whether it be third world countries after natural disasters or perhaps someone who had a dream of owning and operating their own small business everywhere you turned you were helping people and places improve your selfless acts continue today always striving for a better Jupiter I commend you for that councilor Delaney uh if I remember correctly you were always on the the quiet side however always a good listener playing strict attention and close as playing strict and close attention to details that seems to be how your Jupiter political career started elected in 2016 you didn't come in 9 M an hour at your hair on fire you observed the process listened gathered the information and then proceeded to address to address them professionally today you still stick to that smart and wise approach you continue to provide a great service to the people of Jupiter one thing that did catch my eye I see you have a nice new white pickup truck please don't take this the wrong way when I first saw it I thought you were the dog catcher counselor May cam may do this cam may do that whatever cam May seems to do you do it extremely well all of your life you have dedicated yourself to the well-being of others you always put everyone else first and proactively strive to keep everyone safe and out of Harm's Way you start started this life Journey as a young high school student uh lifeguarding thousands of young children during the summer break after graduating high school you became a palmach county lifeguard following your dad's footsteps and just to speed things up here your passion led to LED you to graduate from the fire academy of Florida State as well as the paramedic school at Palm Beach State achieving your dream job as a firefighter paramedic you bring those same values and passion to the council I also thank you for your idea of restoring the holiday lighting throughout the Town 3 years ago it looked looks great no doubt about it you are also a superb Town counselor Jupiter is fortunate enough to have you last and certainly not least councelor for Andy has always been a great thinker Andy has a keen ear and like most Engineers thinks things through before sharing his knowledge on a subject as he strives to be correct and accurate as possible Andy sharp mind and ability to explain things for all to understand is uncanny filling a filling a vacant seat is no easy task it didn't take any long to blend in and provide great input to each and every team on the Town Council or the CRA meeting agenda appointing Andy was a smart and wise decision I understand youve decided not to seek election thanks for a job well done in a short but valuable time as a member to council you surely will be missed as all of you have just heard and as well can clearly see this fine fine group of five individuals all walked down five different paths however all five of you came together with one goal in mind to keep Jupiter a very desirable place to settle down a great place to work a great place to raise a family and a great place to retire a great place for fun all with the best interest of every single resident in mind on behalf of employees they have asked me to thank you for their recognizing their commitment to Excellence and the value they provide to our residents each and every day they are very grateful for all of you that for all for all you've done for them to provide the ever so important life work balance and now finally without any further Ado the moment you've all been waiting for I am pleased to inform you that all five Jupiter Town Council Members have made Santa's nice list you've all earned it congratulations ho ho ho Merry Christmas and happy New Year thank you Santa can we ask one question and you may not be able to answer it but for all the kids out there can you tell us the hour on Christmas Eve Christmas Day morning that you may be flying over Jupiter 2: a.m. thank you it's very nice and cool at that time Merry Christmas everybody hey Santa real quick you want to come back can we get a picture of with Santa up front council members with the book yeah sure you're all in this book you know real I think it's one up front here Santo zic sweet that's there one two three [Applause] [Laughter] [Laughter] for anyone wondering that was our town attorney's Tai do we have any more citizen comments no mayor that was the most delightful speaker to speak before the council um Council we have before us the minutes of the December 3rd Town council meeting I don't see any corrections on the Das if there are none I'll take a motion in a second so moved second Motion in a second all in favor signify by saying I I motion carries unanimous moving on to the consent agenda this is items uh 2 through 13 uh is there any member of the public that wish to pull a consent agenda item no mayor is there any member on the Das uh wishes to pull a consent agenda item no seeing none um I'll take a motion in a second on the consent agenda so moved second we have a motion in the second we have two ordinances one of which is quasi additional uh on the ordinance 1324 second reading on the rezoning does do any members of the council have any expart disclosures none none none uh seeing none hearing none uh it ask the town man uh Town attorney to read the two ordinances on short title ordinance 1324 an ordinance of the Town Council town of Jupiter Florida amending the town's official zoning map to rezone approximately 1.34 Acres of property located at 1352 South US Highway 1 from commercial office to the US Highway 1 inter Coastal Waterway Corridor District mix use residential subdistrict providing for severability providing for the repeal of laws in conflict and providing for an effective date ordinance 3224 an ordinance of the Town Council town of Jupiter Florida amending chapter 15 Article 4 pertaining to the police officers retirement fund providing for the amendment of division 3 section 15 3 80 entitled in Internal Revenue code compliance to provide for compliance with the setting every Community up for retirement enhancement 2.0 act providing for the repeal of laws in Conflict providing for severability providing for codification and providing for an effective date we have a motion in the second and the consent agenda all in favor signify by saying I I I motion carries unanimously moving on to the regular agenda uh the first item is ordinance 3124 first reading it is quasa judicial uh does anybody on the council have any exper disclosures no none none none none okay with that um I'd ask that uh um the app Representatives that for the applicant or Witnesses of any party uh that will be providing Tony to be stand and to be sworn in please do you somly swear that the testimony you're about to give in this hearing is the whole truth and nothing but the truth okay the uh applant will begin first uh presentation limited to 10 minutes and if you don't use all 15 minutes you may reserve it remaining time for closing argument or rebuttal thank you and I'm James Sturgis um with architect Sturgis here representing the owners for 502 bald eagle and um Ritz Carlton PUD now known as Trump National PUD um going I'm here to request uh an amendment to the to the Ritz Carlton golf club and PUD to allow for a guest Cottage at the residence located at 502 Bald Eagle Drive the subject site is located pod B of the Ritz Carlton PUD development uh the proposed guest Cottage is located above an existing detached garage with a proposed addition uh the property is uh in pod b as mention in the upper left the uh actual site lot 30 is in the lower left of pod B the Pud is 284 Acres I believe it's 68 plus or minus uh homes in total the zoning is single family residential R1 future land use is low density residential R1 the uh property uh in discussion here is 60 Acres uh this is the Pod B uh enlarge rotated uh 90° to the right and the upper left is lot 30 uh in the the history between 94 and 2005 Cottages were permitted to be constructed on single family lots as an accessory use throughout the town of Jupiter however there was uh this was abandoned after their complaints of giz cottages that were being used uh for rental units the surrounding um puds Bears Club to the east of uh the Ritz Carlton PUD adal's Cove PUD to the north uh have Provisions within their development approvals that allow for detached garage uh or guest Cottages the Ritz Carlton uh also allowed two previous uh um waivers in the Pod B being one lot 15a at the North End of uh the Pod B and the other one being uh pod a lots one and two which is uh south of the Pod B the definition of a guest cottage living quarters within a detached accessory Building located on the same premises as the main building to be used exclusively for housing members of the family occupying the main building or their non-paying guests such quarters having no kitchen facilities and not to be rented or otherwise used as a separate dwelling also guest Cottages are to be in incidental and subordinate to the principal dwelling on the lot they're not to exceed the height of the existing principal dwelling they're not to exceed 35% of the gross area of the principal dwelling nor are they to exceed 35% of the uh overall lot coverage this is a blow up of lot 30 um the lower right corner is the existing detachment two-car garage and that is um where we are proposing to uh expand the garage to for two additional bays and the guest Cottage will be on top of the uh the the the garage and this is uh the upper level of it it's basically it's a it's a bonus room uh it's got a covered balcony and a bathroom in a small closet uh the total sare footage is it's 758 Square ft is is the square footage of the um guest proposed guest Cottage the principal structure uh has 3897 Square ft conditioned on the first floor 3718 condition on the second floor uh with porches and uh the attached enclosed garage there's a total of 8143 square ft there are no changes proposed to the existing structure uh the guest Cottage structure has a total of 1814 Square ft 528 of the existing detached garage with an expansion for an additional 528 Square ft for the proposed garage and 758 Square ft for the proposed guest Cottage on the second floor uh the total of the uh square footage uh is 22% of the principal structure this is an elevation of the front uh on the lower left with the gable roof and the pair of Windows is basically the profile of the existing garage so we're just extending that same profile out further toward the street and then the guest Cottage sits uh up on top of it uh kind of tucked in within that uh existing one-story roof as you can see the uh Second Story of the guest Cottage is about the peak of it about even with the uh the eve of the main structure roof and so it's actually about 8 ft lower than the main structure so it is definitely subordinate um the waiver request is to allow for the D different type of dwelling unit that being uh the guest Cottage it currently only allows for one family dwellings uh over over and and the owner proposes a guest Cottage this historical presidents within this PUD exists when pod B on lot 15a and uh on pod a lot one and two uh as a public benefit for granting the waiver to the Pud uh the owner proposes to donate to the town to be used toward funding upgrades to the town Parks such as Incorporation of spr splash pads 10 $110,000 as a reference the previous waiver requests in this PUD donated uh $10,000 for that was in pod a in 2023 and then uh $7500 in 2009 uh which was the lot 15 and pod B uh conclusion uh we request is proposing a PD Amendment to the rich Carlton Club in Spa to allow a guest Cottage on the property located 502 bought eal Drive Lot 50 pod B the waiver is limited to this one use this one lot lot 50 uh we did receive approval from the Trump National architecture review board again similar requests have been approved in pod a and pod B uh the owner uh will provide the public benefit to Aid in upgrading of the Town Parks such as splash pads and the owner acknowledges the previous staff conditions of approval and that's basically my presentation okay um i' ask the staff to present its [Music] report good evening for the record Peter Meer senior planner staff the application for consideration tonight is the first reading of of amendment to the Ritz Carlton PUD to allow a guest on lot 30 within pod B the applicant is requesting a waiver for the unit type and the R1 single family residential zon District to allow a guest Cottage as an accessory use to the primary single family dwelling unit the app is proposing to donate $10,000 to the town to be used towards funding upgrades to town Parks such as in as the incorporation of splash pads is a strategic priority of the town to complete a recreational master plan to include current facilities future plan facil ities and partner facilities and opportunities the recreational master plan includes providing splash pads if the public benefit is not found to be sufficient a condition has been added to um or is found to be sufficient a condition has been added to require the owner contribute $10,000 to be placed in a Town Fund for upgrades to town Parks if the public benefit is not found to be sufficient then staff has identified other public benefits on page five of attachment two which is the it is in Town's strategic priority to update the future land use and zon destinations of existing preservation areas and golf courses to provide consistency with the development orders approved by a Town Council in addition uh I won't go over that here I went over it on November 12th 2024 the plan Zone commission recommended approval of the requested application with staff Rec committed conditions the requested Amendment to the Pud will be compliance with the town code subject to the approval of the conditions in ordinance 31-24 and contingent upon the Town Council approving the proposed public benefit and wer requested by the applicant that concludes our presentation thanks okay uh turn to council uh are there any questions of staff for the applicant uh yes um for the both of you I guess yes I'll I'll be glad to take the applicant first can you describe the walkway between the um garage and the house is it covered yes uh let me get back there okay um again the main house is is the pink color and the beige and the lower right is the garage no it is not covered it's an open walkway there's 's a like a 3 and 1/2 ft High Garden Wall that exists but no it is totally detached okay so is completely detached did you consider enclosing it making an air conditioned space continuous yeah that's the master bedroom site of the house so it would have nowhere it made sense to come into the into the main house the walkway from the garage comes into the master bedroom the walkway as it exists now the garden wall protects that's actually the master bath is on the front of the house so that that area that you see uh on the left side of the uh uh the garage and behind that wall is actually off the front of the master bath but the stairs must be going to a a fairly main entrance I would think the the stairs yes there's a gate uh adjacent to the garage that goes um up an exterior set of stairs onto the porch and then into the uh bonus room approximately how many feet is the walkway um approximately length you talking about between the structures yes oh um about 20 the garage is like 25 4T so it's like 20t plus or minus that's that's scales to about that okay thank you that's all I have for you um staff please Peter thank you was a analysis done to see if this a substantial Improvement I'm not question I mean it's a it's a guest Cottage building code you know substantial Improvement requires the existing structure to be completely brought up to code for planning zoning it's not our code maybe a building question for them I don't know for plan zoning um is anybody here from building um the reason I'm bringing this up I guess specifically is I'm a contractor and engineer in the town as you know I created a structure similar to this where there was a garage above the um I mean a apartment above the garage guest Cottage and we air conditioned a walkway space between the two and uh eliminated the need for a special waiver by doing that and that's why I was just wondering if that was considered if if no why not yeah yeah and as I mentioned it's it's on the wrong side of the house the it's it's the master bedroom master bath side of the house so there just really wasn't a practical way to attach it in air conditioning you would it would it would generate probably 20 by 6 120 and then you would have to so you're talking probably a couple hundred square fet of covered walkway or condition quarter if you will just to get it to link to the main component of the house understood yeah it was looked at but it just wasn't right are we are we at all concerned that we're setting the Precedence now is just anybody that asked for this are we going to be asked to approve it now that two have done it and now this will be our third from now on we just it's given it's not a case by case basis and sub to the council to to approve or not not approve it's a waiver you know can you give me a little more history the reason given for the introduction of this um uh code was so people wouldn't rent these P spaces um is that your interpretation of how this came into fruition what's the Nexus of the original code the code doesn't list a guest Cottage as part of the uses permitted in R1 so but what was the the the generation of this well there was it was allowed before there was a day could you put that slide back up that was it was allowed before a certain day then we enacted code to stop it and the reason that was given by the applicant was there were guest Cottages that were being rented out yes and there was there was there were initially was a policy over 20 years ago that allowed them um and then what was occurring was we were having housing issues in some of the charter neighborhoods that we continue ually had um code violations with and it became difficult for the for the town to allow those but still allow those on not allow them sorry not allow them on in the charter neighborhoods but then allow them in the neighborhoods um like the Bears Club or Admiral's Cove or in Abacoa so um the policy was based on the issues that were occurring was changed in order to address that specifically and the code says what uses what accessory uses are permitted in each of the re residential zoning districts so those different puds such as Admirals Cove and the Bears Club and even lock aatchi Club have come back and requested waivers for the entire PUD to allow them individually for their entire neighborhood the Ritz Carlton has opted to propose them individually on each um lot so every time somebody wants to do one they come back and they address it individually and it was the choice of the homeowners association to to do it that way so the so the future request will probably pretty much automatically be granted I guess then that's well it yeah it's consistent with the others and it's based on public benefit if the council finds that the public benefit is is appropriate and that's how all of the planned unit development waivers are addressed is is there adequate public benefit in order to uh substantiate the request okay thank you both very much thank you councel ly uh just one question are there any issues with the adjacent neighbors uh no no no issues and as a matter of fact the southide is in open area the site where where uh where the existing detached garage exists and the proposed uh guest house is the north side is it's fairly it's a fairly large area and and it's actually that was the other reason too it you can see it kind of makes a a wedge in the in the back and that's so it leaves all of that green space open so it doesn't intrude on the neighbor it's just you when encroaching on setbacks on other you know existing property lines sometimes there issues you know houses getting close to other people aren't happy but there was no issues with that no one complaints or no because again the the area where this is going is a is a common area on the South Side okay that was it vice mayor um I'm grateful for Planning and Zoning but I just wanted to get this on the record and there was a question or um recommendation posed by staff potentially as a strategic benef or as a public benefit to look at the future land use and Zoning designations for the preservation areas and golf courses can you speak to what um I I think you were running into trouble in terms of who who owns it or manages it jurisdiction could you speak to that briefly correct correct um when it was uh discussed with with Town staff uh the the thinking was that it was part of the uh the POA property but it is not it's actually part of the golf club property and uh the golf club is a complex entity it's got like 15 trustees that that uh are are creating a um an entity including some banks and and other complexities that there's just no way to get to anybody to to try to get uh something like that approved understood thank you counc may no questions just want to staff um just following up on uh counselor for um so at at this phase of every project um an application hasn't gone or the plans haven't yet gone this is for the staff um haven't yet gone to the building department so I imagine if ever in whatever requirements are the building code the building department will identify correct correct and then if in fact it ever did uh affect the S plan then I guess it would come back correct or we would you would at least become aware of that if it affected a site plan maybe maybe a smaller structure maybe you see the site plan but you if the the waivers for the guest Cottage in general not about the size of it it's long as it meets those conditions of the being subordinate and to the main structure you may not see it again if it just maybe had to reduce the size of the guest Cottage to understand my point is to the point that uh you know Council for talked about having some experience that that could prove to be an issue I'm just saying we would we would never deal with that now because it hasn't yet gone to the building department but when that comes up I mean building department adds stuff all the time probably most of its interior but the applicant would have to deal with that at that point in time and if it affected the site plan application then it would come back or staff would do it as an administrative correct correct okay so I'm just and I I'll add an example uh on another project that we did in there we actually enclosed some space above the attached garage and it used the main stair off from the existing house but when it came in for building permit actually went to staff for Planning and Zoning they looked at it and they actually called me with a question to confirm that it was accessed from the main house so so every time it goes in for building permit it does get passed through staff for their review and they're pretty cognizant about looking for that thank you um open the floor to any public comments do here I seeing none um I don't know that any party have any rebuttal or closing remarks but do you have any no no okay no then we come back to council uh to begin deliberation um I'll start at the other end just to try to rotate uh counc may u any comments you want to add or to beginning the deliberation nothing really I mean I appreciate the uh the applicant uh proposal to add $10,000 to the for our um parks and stuff like that and um you know we have a 60 vote from the Planning and Zoning commission so it's kind of hard to go against that so um you know I'm I'm in favor of of the proposed okay vice mayor same give short that was yours I'm just I'm concerned about the precedents we're setting um who gets to have one and who doesn't and it sounds like we're pretty much saying everybody gets to have one if they request it I see no criteria in which other than setback violations or something that you were bringing up mayor but otherwise it's going to be everybody wants one gets one so maybe instead of wai wasting our time hearing future ones we should just accept a a blanket PUD to allow guest Cottages I I I think we were told that some of the puds have that but they didn't request it specifically um why are we doing this peace meal is I guess what I'm getting at okay no and I appreciate and respect your comments I just obviously representing the council and myself um I would never want to agree that this means that we can't uh deny or change um the way I look at it the way the facts are is that if the let's call it a PUD wanted to come in and have it blanket then we'd be dealing with as as a blanket the public benefit would be a different level um so this PUD doesn't want to do that this is just a oneoff house there had been two others done um so the facts I think before us tonight are this is somewhat consistent um with what had been done before so as our prerogative I think there's a consensus we would agree and support it but if for example all of a sudden there was you know a wave of applications it would be a different situation right then quite frankly we would have a basis to ask the Pud to come in and let's amend the Pud and talk about different public benefits right so I think just I'm supportive of it because it's for all we know this is the last one for many many years given that but I I certainly wouldn't agree we're setting any precedent it's based on the facts before us right and what they ask is because we realize how difficult it would be to go back to the Pud to ask you know the them to step up and do things when it's just one they they might not want to do it at all either that's that's very true I just want to make it clear to everybody though there is an alternate to that that you could have air conditioned space between the two no no and uh that's why I was asking I think it may well be that that comes out in the building permit process but then that's they'll discover that then right right that's a more appropriate area for that to be pulled out of right I get the context may be different for each of these as well so councilor delany's question in terms of neighbors and setbacks and and all the things that you've mentioned before those can be different with each application and you know you get a second set of eyes looking at each one of them as well and and clearly what the neighbor saying is very important I think it's pretty obvious they'll never rent the space out so I don't think that's going to be a concern for the neighborhood right so those were basically my concerns with the overall right picture of what we're trying to do here even the picture left up on the screen shows that the garage is facing nobody it looks like it'll it won't won't bother anybody right yeah and uh Council for was your issue if if the Pod you prefer them doing a having a blanket sort of a waiver system where it would just be done administratively where it wouldn't come to council if need be if it was if the Pud allowed guest Cottages um then I think it would eliminate a lot of our time I don't you know we're all speculating how many of these are going to come down the shoot um mayor said maybe two years but then again maybe in two months um just from from a housekeeping standpoint do we want to keep doing these peace meals and do we need that kind of control and I think um the Pud probably is in the best position to see if they want to allow an individual basis Falls in their court that by the way I wasn't speculating the future I was talking about the past how long it's been since we've done right so I'm just saying they presented here from our staff is how often this has happened 23 was the last one it was 2009 before that right yeah so there we have no reason to believe there's going to be a wave but if that were to happen then we we then could deal with it totally understand all right that's that those were my concerns okay um so with that I'll take a motion in a second uh on ordinance 3124 motion to approve ordinance 3124 in first reading second second have a motion to Second I'd ask the town attorney to read an ordinance 3124 on first on a short title an ordinance of the town council at Town you forward approving an amendment to the Ritz Carlton planned unit development providing for a waiver to the unit type in the alln single family residential zoning District to allow a guest Cottage as an accessory use to the primary single family dwelling unit on lot 30 of pod B and providing for an effective date all those in favor signify by saying I I the motion carries unanimously uh moving on to public business resolution 2624 approving the community redevelopment agency plan 2024 update uh and I just want to for the benefit of the public and staff and and uh our consultant May wind up saying this but just for the public uh this plan all of us on Council had met multiple times with staff and our consultant there had been and again you're going to hear that uh and we just approved it at the CRA which is subordinate to the council so you know wouldn't you wouldn't expect then us to have any comments because now with the CRA approving it which was us it comes here and the town has to approve it I just want to make that clear we're not likely to have comments or questions so with that staff Stephanie thurn assistant director of Planning and Zoning happy to be here um this is the final uh 202 for CRA Plan update um you saw it two weeks ago uh mayor and um it's been uh it is a strategic priority of the Town Council and I'm happy to say if with your approval tonight it will be completed and it's been over a year and a half since I was last here actually in the other building but um but we came and did a a round table in February of 2023 and that's when um we got good input and realized we needed some help and with that um I wanted to uh introduce Kim Delaney from Treasure Coast Regional planning Council and she's going to be um giving you the presentation a shortened version of what you saw if you want um from the December 3rd meeting thank you thanks good evening Kim Delaney for the record from treasur coast RPC so thank you for an opportunity to come back yet again uh to uh um cover the CRA Plan update for the Town Council um I can take a highlevel view through the presentation um if you'd like for the benefit of the public um or you as a board can decide that material was sufficiently presented at your last Workshop so completely available at the discretion of the board to cover any items any aspect of the plan that you'd like yeah but go through it as a high level again we have members of the public that may not have known about that's why I was okay super happy to so um and for the benefit of the public there's a long history of discussions by the board and the public um on the Plan update and the plan of course is available on the town's website as a matter of public record um and so with that the Jupiter CRA or community redevelopment agency was established in 2002 um it initially had a boundary of about about 397 Acres it was expanded by about two acres uh to its current size of 399 Acres uh the image on the screen illustrates the boundary of the CRA um most of the property is Upland about 252 Acres with about 147 Acres of submerged lands as well um the uh CRA has been tremendously successful um in fact one of the most successful cras both in the state and region um kind of the power uh the mighty power of a small agency is really remarkable um this slide uh summarizes some of the notable CRA successes that have been accomplished uh the Riverwalk environmental land uh restoration public private Partnerships public parking available in love Street um and um storm waterer improvements within the district um and um and again a summary of the CRA successes are available in the CRA plan um as well as in the public records that lead to tonight's hearing couple of images just to illustrate those types of successes I mean the things that people know and love about the town of Jupiter are really represented I think so well within the SI District uh so um the Riverwalk um uh Environmental uh land uh restoration both Upland and submerged lands um and destination quality enhanced uh in the district which have resulted in tremendous property value increase which is part of the intent of a Redevelopment District to begin with with respect to schedule um we've been um uh underway with the town for about the past 15 months or so um this slide summarizes the public Outreach and activities that have taken place leading up to tonight's adoption um and um the CRA board met most recently two weeks ago um and recommended approval of the plan uh to the Town Council that sounds awkward for the public but um logistically the CRA board is responsible for reviewing the plan and making a recommendation symbolically actually to the Town Council the Town Council is the one responsible for the C plan's adoption and ultimately for the CRA plan's implementation um there has been a lot of public engagement along the journey and this slide illustrates uh the um different public engagement opportunities uh so there have been a number of workshops with the CRA board uh an open public Workshop back in April um in this room uh there's been extensive Outreach in the form of interviews and focus groups to get input um and help refine the recommendations in the plan um the plan was also distributed to your partner agencies and local governments uh there's been no uh substantive feedback received back from those entities um and so um there um there is um uh no counter recommendation coming from any other entity thus far in the process uh so tonight's action as the mayor mentioned is consideration of a resolution number 126-200 revisions suggested uh by the C board which is just noting that land costs aren't included as part of the uh estimated uh project costs uh in the uh um in the tail end and I have a slide to illustrate that um this slide summarizes the projects and programs that are available in the CRA plan um the plan is reorganized to act as kind of a toolbox and so those projects are fairly sight specific but there is some latitude and the programs can be implemented on any property within the district that the board deems appropriate there are a couple of substantial um revisions to the document um that had been implemented um until the last uh until actually including tonight but until this update is uh is adopted um the um there are a number of projects the CRA has completed and so those are taken out as projects for the CRA to invest in and then the one particular policy change is the removal of a parking garage as a funding item by the CRA um uh nothing in the plan suggests the private sector cannot provide a parking garage if it meets all the zoning criteria um but there's no longer a parking garage included as a capital item for the CRA at this point in time um this map illustrates uh the different projects uh within the CRA boundary I know those numbers are very small but again all this information is available on the town's website uh for review by the public um and um those projects um include an array of um environmental um uh infrastructure projects um uh Waterfront acquisition Waterfront uh public Waterfront access um uh but there's no um specific land acquisition identified uh although the board retains the ability to implement that as part of its programs uh the plan includes a new Waterfront access and amenities map which is Illustrated on this slide uh and the process has given um the town staff a chance to really assemble a lot of background information so the plan exists as an arch archival document uh to identify those sites that have been acquired um and how they can be used for Public Access particularly and public parks as well uh two sites in particular just to note among those um that inventory of resources are the Pet Place property and the in Inlet Village Marina property those two locations are anticipated to see more substantial investment over time because they they're earlier in their development stage and so they're just called out for the Public's awareness um uh in in the last uh Workshop uh the uh the suggest to add um a new program was implemented into this plan update which is to add launches for personal watercraft so there are some locations within the district that are appropriate for uh the introduction of new launches for um kayaks canoes paddle boards and not smaller non non-motorized watercraft environmental resources are really a Hallmark of the District of the things that really make it a desirable place for investment um and an aspect of the district that really contributes to property value and quality of life the plan has a lot of opportunity for the SI to continue to work um in the arena of enhancing restoring um and improving environmental resources within the district both Upland and uh submerged as well uh the Riverwalk of course is one of the most noted features in the CRA um and the CRA has been instrumental in really taking the Riverwalk from um an idea from its Genesis through its implementation to date there's additional Riverwalk investment necessary to complete the system and that's all identified as part of the programs for the CRA to invest in going forward either directly or with its Partners the town and other parters um the transportation network is another component of the CRA District that really adds to its desirability from an investment standpoint and functionality and the plan includes a whole series of complete streets improvements uh kind of from Soup To Nuts from uh from uh from roadway improvements to bike sharing um to transit to Water Taxis to ride sharing EV uh EV charging locations uh so it really is Forward Thinking in identifying the different types of Transportation Investments That might be appropriate for the CRA and really what that does is position the CRA to be its most effective in bringing down Grant dollars from others to really leverage CRA and town resources uh to make those Investments happen for to the extent of its ability with other dollars from other entities parking is a very popular topic in fact one of your speakers tonight talked a bit about the success of the district and the challenges that are created for parking um this map illustrates the different locations where parking is either uh provided by the CRA or town directly or has been negotiated through the development process where the private sector provides parking that's available for public use um and so uh this map doesn't uh serves just as an archival document as well as a planning tool for the CRA to consider how to continue to improve parking and access to destinations within the district cultural and historic resources are another Hallmark of the district um the town in fact has um I think it is the oldest site identified not just in the region but one of the oldest sites in the state of documented human uh human history um and the plan um allows the CRA uh to invest in the acquisition restoration and enhancement of cultural and natural resources um with a considerable latitude um to be able to continue to protect and enhance those sites to the for the benefit of the district and the benefit of the town and finally um community policing uh and Marine navigational assistance are identified as programs for the CRA to invest in uh to improve the safety of the district its desirability for investors um and access in the waterways which again are Hallmarks of the of the successful destination for investment that the SI District represents and so with that there's just two slides on revenues the first one touches on um tax values within the district uh this CRA like most cras in Florida is funded through tax increment financing or Tiff tax increment financing is a financing mechanism only available to C in Florida um and uh it allows an agency uh a crra to bound the values um in a beginning year and then every year thereafter the taxes on the base value um continue to go to the city and county or the town and the county but the taxes on the increment are redirect redirected in into a Redevelopment trust fund that can be only spent on projects and programs in an adopted CRA plan within the boundaries of the CRA that's why the Plan update is so important to really clearly communicate to the public where those dollars can be invested and in what form um and so this chart illustrates the trend of total taxable value within the district so in year one the taxable value totaled about $167 million um in the in the current budget year that we're in um the uh the total value of the district is around 717 million so a substantial increase in total taxable value um and the projection longterm uh through the life of the agency is the values will approach about a billion dollars in total value which is about a 500% increase in value again a remarkable accomplishment especially for a small District um and a really a standout both in the region and the state um and so with that tax acement financing Revenue then follows um the trend of uh taxable value increase and so this chart ill rates the town's share of tax revenue of Tiff Revenue which is in the bottom on the green bars and then the top part of the um top part of those bars in the blue is the county increment that's the real Advantage for having a CRA Tiff often which is that you're able to leverage Town dollars and secure County dollars that typically exceed uh local tax dollars uh for the Redevelopment effort for this agency the first year of Tiff was about $290,000 um the current uh CRA Tiff is about 3.38 million uh which is a $3.1 million increase in that time frame um and at buildout or rather at uh the CRA sunset in 2034 the expectation is about 5.5 million in Tiff Revenue um so with those Revenue dollars um the plan includes a table of the potential costs of what would be CRA funded capital projects that tracks the statutory requirement um and so the next two slides summarize the range of costs that are reasonably anticipated ated with respect to those capital projects this does not limit the type of investment the CRA may make it just illustrates those capital projects uh that are candidates uh as to um best uh estimated uh costs at this point in time this area would be fully expected to fund other administrative costs and programs as well as part of its implementation um that said uh this slide and the next slide do summarize those Capital uh the range of capital costs clearly that if you sum these up it's more than the Tiff Revenue that's expected and the C would be fully expected to secure Grant dollars and leverage its dollars with others uh to implement both the capital projects and the programs that it anticipates it will undertake um and so again for the public a summary of those Capital costs uh and with that mayor and uh councel I'm happy to uh um answer questions if there are any of the board well um first of all I want to thank you and staff um for the effort and I'm think I'm just repeating what all of us individually and collectively had said at the end of the CRA meeting but you know this this 30-year CRA we're 2third of the way we have less than a decade to go it was a great process that was led by you and staff to get public input to get our input and and uh we memorialized what we accomplished we are forward looking uh recogniz izing that it takes an opportunity has to step up uh but we're poised with this plan uh to move and make sure we're investing the funds uh for the benefit of the public so as we as we all had said before and collectively thank you um and with that I'd ask if my colleagues don't have any further thing to add to that if I summarize correctly then I'll take a motion in a second on resolution 12624 motion to approve second motion the second all in favor signify by saying I I motion carries unanimously thank you very much thank you so much okay okay moving on to Round Table we have on discussion of the jtaa partnership uh in relationship objectives goals and plans I turn it over to staff just pulling up my presentation here okay good evening mayor vice mayor and members of council for the record I'm Kristen George director of Parks and Recreation here at the town of Jupiter and I'm here tonight because we are in need of some direction regarding one of the town's strategic priorities that relates to the relationship and partnership with the Jupiter taquesta Athletic Association or jtaa and I'm pretty sure that everyone that's sitting before me has or at some point will have an impact in in their lives based on the work that is done by the Jupiter taquesta Athletic Association they have provided numerous uh athletic programs to the youth in Jupiter and our surrounding communities for over 60 years and that relationship with the town has been essential because if they didn't do what they do that would be a task that is is taken on by the town with a very large staff and a very large budget to do the work that they do which as as a volunteer organization is tremendous um so we wanted to start this evening by just reminding you about the strategic initiative that we're here for and I also want to remind the council that I did have the opportunity to meet with each of you one-on-one in your Council or your meetings with the town manager back in August and September with the exception of counselor four but we did uh send out after that meeting the actual presentation that was reviewed during those one-on ones as well as some questions and answers that came up as a result of that presentation so my my presentation tonight is going to be somewhat brief I'll move through the slides uh relatively quickly if there's questions along the way feel free to stop and ask or if we can wait till the end whichever is your preference I'm happy to oblige uh but tonight the Strategic initiative that we're speaking to it's it's uh specific to the last two that are involved with the Strategic initiative related to Athletic Facility usage and that is to Define and outline what our partnership is with JTA going forward what are some of the relationship goals and what does the picture look like moving forward with JTA so the direction that we're needing needing and this is a slide that I'll show at the beginning and then recircle around to it at the end as well so you don't have to absorb it all right now but some of the highlights that we're looking to get some direction on uh and a reminder that um the town and jtaa have been operating without an official agreement in place since the the last agreement expired in uh January of 2021 so for tonight what we're looking for is uh some I'm going to discuss the historical interlocal agreements that have allowed JTA to Leverage the town's use of multiple school facilities at no cost to jtaa I'll also remind you about the process and policy that we have in place right now that's still in a draft mode related to the allocation of fields and athletic facilities I'll show you the actual usage of the facility by all of our user groups in the town JTA being one of the largest of those user groups and I actually am going to ask for uh you know your direction on what type of uh Investments the town and jtaa should continue to contribute to our relationship so just a brief history about the agreements again our relationship B dates back to the the mid-60s we've had various resolutions and agreements in place throughout the years since 1980 the most notable information that needs to come as a result of this that you need to be un understanding and made aware of is that in quotations in in November 27th of 1991 that was the first actual agreement that recognized JTA as the major Youth Sports provider for the town giving priority status to as to usage of all Town Parks and Recreation facilities so that statement comes directly from that agreement in 1996 a new 15-year agreement was put into place uh in that agreement it spoke to the town providing $115,000 to jtaa annually to put towards Capital Improvements within the town's Parks and Recreation facilities then in 2011 the last of the agreements that were in place was a 10-year agreement that identified JTA as the Youth Sports provider for the greater town which would include unincorporated areas of Jupiter Jupiter Farms and then our surrounding and adjacent communities around us like taquesta and Juno Beach so the agreements that we've had in place did not differentiate between travel programs and recreational programs that's important to note and again there's no current agreement between the town and JTA but both sides have been working in good faith to ensure that the same level of service has been provided despite the fact of no agreement in place I think you're all aware that we have utilized several interlocal agreements with the palmach county school district for use of the middle schools and high schools here in Jupiter and uh there have there were some costs involved to with that not for JTA but the town's contribution in order to leverage space Forge GTAA to utilize most notably their indoor gymnasiums at the middle schools so the three agreements that we have were with Community Jupiter Community High School that dated back to the construction of the stadium and Field track and field location over there at that facility the town contributed a significant amount of dollars towards that project and this interlocal agreement allowed the town to have access to those facilities as well as the school to have access to town athletic facilities the middle schools was very specific to the gymnasiums and that was an agreement that the town signed with the inter with the school board at a contribution level of $195,000 over the course of 5 years that went to the school district and a smaller portion went to each of the schools each year for that and what we thought those funds were going to be used for which was repairs and restoration of the facilities we've actually found out after the fact that those were considered discretionary funds by the school board so those dollars were not actually put into repairs and and maintenance that goes along with facilities specifically with indoor gymnasiums it's wood flooring restoration annually and back stop maintenance of basketball courts Etc but since the these agreements have expired much expired much like we work with jtaa the town and the school district have been operating in good faith as well to make sure that we're still providing facilities to each other while we work towards a new and improved interlocal agreement we're in the stages right now with the school district of discussing a draft uh interlocal agreement going forward for usage of all schools and town facilities as well I thought it was important to State uh some of the issue some of the statements that are in the comprehensive plan because this agree this strategic priority does speak specifically to the comp plan and our comprehensive plan in objective 2.1 does outline that the town should support efforts and work closely with volunteer organizations that already provide recreational programs although it's not specific to JTA uh they are one organization in place that does provide a number of recreational programs for us so we have continued to work with them the other part of that is that the town should continue to work with surrounding municipalities Parks and Recreation uh municipality services and facilities so that we can integrate unincorporated areas of Jupiter residents that come from those areas and then the adjacent communities as well we do have a current facility allocation process which is available on the town's Parks and Recreation website I'm not going to go through the whole uh policy and process itself we will be having a separate Round Table in the next couple of months to discuss that along with some potential fee structures to put in place but just to highlight what process we do now for facilities Town run programs do come first we do make sure that our facilities have our special events our camps Our Youth and adults programs uh programmed into them after those have been programmed in we do work with JTA as the recreational uh Sports provider to make sure that recreational programs get what they are are needing and that is because Recreational Sports it doesn't they don't require any Tri outs every child gets to participate it's not an exorbitant amount of money uh the recreational program are basically the basis for all of our kids growing up here in Jupiter so that does take priority after town programs next up comes School interlocal agreements if there's space that the high school needs to practice out at Jupiter Community Park we do put the Schoolboard uh interlocal agreements next in place and lastly we have developed a process for travel and competitive programs to be allocated any leftover space that might be available after those other three are allocated uh the high level part of that is that we have established a residency request reement in order to apply for facility allocations and you'll see on the map that I've provided that we do uh a benchmark that we shoot for is to have over 50% of team rosters and team organizations at 50% above Incorporated uh town of Jupiter and then anything less than that would be uh 20% outside of incorporated or the greater Jupiter area and the greater Jupiter area does include Jupiter Farms surrounding municipalities like taquesta and Juno Beach as well the these next two slides just show the overall participation level of JTA over the last couple of years with Rec Sports and also with travel Sports so you can see that we're pretty close to meeting those those um percentages but might be some work to be done but we'll talk about that at our next round table this next slide does talk about annual participation and use of all of the town's athletic facilities based on user groups and you can see that the two largest user groups are our town programs and then jtaa Recreational Sports Sports when it comes to the outside Athletic Field usage the travel sports do see a very large portion of the hours available that they utilize for travel programs as well and this is programs outside of daily maintenance which typically takes place Monday through Friday 7 A.M until 3 p.m. and then these are any programs that take place after and outside of those hours I'll talk a little bit about the town's Investments and what dollars we have been putting towards and continue to put towards uh jta's effort and as one of the larger user groups like I said they do uh take up a lot of time within our facilities and we put forth the the dollars and the work to make sure that our facilities are topnotch for them it's important to note that the town provides facilities at no cost for either recreational or travel programs and that's both for JTA and other external groups that are using our facilities uh we spoke a little earlier about the annual contribution of 15,000 to jtaa that was in the early years of agreement ments it happened for about 6 years and then in 2007 that uh the town no longer was contributing to that for various reasons we did fund the Middle School interlocal agreement back in 2016 to 21 there's also ongoing daily maintenance and upgrades through our CIP and operating budgets which I've outlined in this graph here and daily maintenance of the facilities as well so you can see just from fiscal year 22 to 25 the total cost and total investment that the town puts into to our facilities is quite remarkable uh and those are the specific funds that are put towards facilities that impact JTA directly and it's important also to note that we do have a facilities master plan process in place right now so the town is going to be preparing to see what dollars we want to commit towards the projects that rais to the highest level through that Master planning process it's important to note also the JTA contributions like I said at the beginning of the presentation if they didn't do what they did then the town would having to be absorbing all of those uh things that they do like recruiting volunteers background checks making sure that coaches are all CPR and and AED trained so that takes a team and the team of volunteers for jtaa accomplishes that they are their own 501c3 organization with an executive board that manages their own financial investments and their own staff they do have user fees that provide Revenue to fund program expenses they are are a volunteer-based organization that manages approximately 6,000 participants annually in all of their programs both travel and Recreation and they do receive additional funding sources through Community sponsorships and fundraising again without JTA the town would would uh be at a loss essentially so again I'm circling back on our last slide here about the direction that's needed and I'm hoping that the council will have a discussion about this now that we've had the opportunity to share today's information but I'll leave this slide up uh direction that we're seeking is should there be a formal agreement between the town and jtaa and what does that look like should it be the form of a resolution should it be a uh a formal agreement how should the town be involved in the use of the Palm Beach County School District facilities should we continue to leverage that space on behalf of JTA and that process does take a lot of Staff resources from The Parks and Recreation Department just to briefly explain how that process works right now when JTA requests space from a spefic specific school they have to make that request to one of our Town recreation supervisors so it stops there we fill out a form we send it to the specific school that the request is being sent for the school then has to review and sign off on it the school then sends it to the school board where the school board has to review it and assign any costs that are uh associated with that and then it comes back again through that same process from the school board to the school to the town and then to jtaa which is extremely timec consuming it can sometimes take two months to to allocate or to request even and receive approval from the school board so it's laborious at best uh other things we wanted to consider for your feedback is what balance should be applied to various user groups of town facilities as you can see from the slide that we talked about there's multiple user groups are we well balanced are we offering enough programs uh in that space for JTA as well as our senior athletic programs adult athletics and various wreck and travel organizations and lastly again what investment should the town make and one investment should JTA make going forward so again I'll leave this slide up for your your um consideration and if anyone has any questions at this point I can hap happily answer them for you and this is a discussion for the council also right um I want to make a few observations uh to kick this off and then you can weigh in if um anything I'm saying is not correct so what occurs to me when we got this and again as you indicated you met with each of us in individually we also ask questions and here we are tonight to call us about some direction here so you know really we've had this JTA partnership for 60 years as you indicated but during those 60 years a lot of things have changed um and a couple of these things you didn't mention that as a criticism but I want to make sure we think about this so you know 20 years ago we had healthy parks and wck impact feast and we had healthy opportunities for developer contributions as we were building out our facilities never occurred to us under that scenario we should have some fees to pay for this and what you heard was but even then JTA did provide some things uh in the way of upgrades um but they haven't in many years uh now you fast forward is there is no more foreseeable impact fees there's no opportunity for developer significant developer contributions cuz we're pretty much built out and here we are embarking upon uh a program to upgrade our Parks because they've been it's time to renovate them and we're doing that J we've asked nothing of JTA yet and then outside of the upgrades there's operating cost that we have we really haven't been uh other than whatever JTA does uh which might have individually got some input on um but um so that's what kind of occurred to me was number one and then as it was mentioned and I didn't get a chance to talk to our town attorney but it was mentioned the attorney Our Town attorney had advised against entering to an agreement uh I'm going to ask him in a few moments to comment but that that guidance was based upon I understand the litigation we were in where a South Martin County resident um you know was litigating against the town like we're being unfair that we're not allowing them to use our fields and I don't know about anybody else but it still stuns me how anybody can have a legal standing when they're not paying a dime so the other thing is you know for those that don't know and I think everybody on the Das does you know South Mountain County residents their governments contribute absolutely nothing to the financial availability of fields so um you know and then to the other extent uh the gardens now has new facilities and for the public to know and my colleagues know is that years ago um the county got together the municipalities in North County and uh there was a agreement made to find a park site that would be a regional site it was located in Palm Beach Gardens so that Regional site then was supposed to be for everybody's use uh ironically initially the county was going to build one and the uh the gardens was objecting then they came around and wanted to build it so they now have leased that County property and have a facility that is supposed to be equally available to everybody in North County and the reason I'm bringing that up is because so the garden has the probably the most thought out facility and member registration usage Fe that uh that I think is a starting point for us to consider why wouldn't we consider it um and uh so you know draw attention on o August 23rd uh Christen had responded back to all of us the request for additional information from the presentation we had individually we seen I think coincidentally coincidentally they may be all of my questions but nonetheless CU others might have had theirs answered in the meeting I asked for a compy of the the U the gardens youth agreement and um you know it seems to me it's well thought out now they have a fee for non-residents versus residents a different fee um and I pondered about that why doesn't that that makes sense to us too right I mean so I'd like to start from the premise is I'd like not to add the fees for Jupiter residents but there's nothing wrong with uh charging a feed just like JTA if they go down to the regional park and it's for Jupiter residents and in fact I had talked to the Gardens mayor about this and the the county mayor you know but that's the way it is right so I think it's a road map to kind of follow um that you know why not at least consider it so I'd asked the staff to seg and they had to go back to jtaa to segregate what's outside of Jupiter well to Define what's in Jupiter area so in this you know email um and maybe it's in the presentation I think not all of it is but in Jupiter era because we Define Jupiter area it says how much are in the town how much are in unincorporated Palm Beach County within Jupiter how much you're in the Village at Thea and then for the other area it defines how much is the gardens how much is Martin County and then what's even outside of that area um and then um so and we got that for both recreational and travel Sports um and then the usage in the different sports and whatever so that I I submit that was an incredible uh source of information and I just you know I'm not I want to make sure everybody gets a chance to speak but for tonight for the initial Direction because I was looking at this and with there's numbers there there could be significant new Revenue um just establishing the fee structure that the gardens has for their facility and usage and adopting like they have basically nothing for residents but I'm just saying let's let's start and we're not going to agree to that here I'm not asking anybody to agree to it but I'm just we're we're to give some direction to maybe use that as a road map that would begin to get some revenues that the town gets now um I um because seems like that's a fair again they staff could come back to us we could look at that um and you hopefully we have representatives from JTA that are here tonight but you know I understand they've accumulate when they no longer had to contribute to us I know they have over a million dollars in a bank account we don't but I'm sensitive because I want to point out again in that in that staff information we had gotten um there also was a uh competitive analysis um with um what fees are paid kind of for garden facilities for J you know for Jupiter for bokeh for Wellington so you know look we don't want to create any hardship for families anywhere but but we have to basically we're not being fair to Jupiter taxpayers if basically we're covering everything right so I mean that's kind of a premise here I mean that's I'm just throwing that out so again a complicated topic but really um that's the information we asked and you gave us and to me it kind of provides a road map um to begin a process because it's really not coming down to asking what JTA is going to contribute but just more fundamentally those in the programs and I'm just throwing out the G so I suggest you know that as a starting point you know can redistribute that staff can look at it and and recommend from that but if I'm interpreting correctly when each facility is used and they have it covered for wreck versus travel versus you know and and then there's discounts for a wreck versus a travel and whatever and there's recognition of tournaments right cuz you think of a tournament um you know there was a tournament just this weekend you know for soccer my I have a granddaughter that was in it and my my wife and I were at McDonald's and there was a a team from bokeh that was in there you know I mean so let's I don't want to be you know not mind ful of the fact that tournaments can bring business to our businesses and whatever uh and but the gardens even addressed that um as I as I thought so again I'm not saying it was perfect but they're the ones that most recently did it correct and they and they did it under scrutiny of the county I would imagine because the county wanted to make sure there was fairness because they're using the County facility now maybe that's not the case but I'm going to choose to think that's what how it happened right and regarding the school facilities um you know I learned a lot from reading this and the dialogue because I guess I had forgotten how much we were paying we did it to facilitate jtaa to make more facilities available I thought we're working out with the the district because they're using our facility quite a bit yes um and it seemed like it was a lot more one-sided and now what we've heard from you know the town manager um and perhaps from you in our meetings was that the district is even changing their rules so uh I I kind of want to pause on the school district one to kind of decide to make sure because it didn't work out like you said when they took the revenue and they didn't use it in the schools right I think all of us governments have an opport have a responsibility to share usage of all our facilities for the benefit of our Collective public but that's not what was happening with the school district so I I want to just say I want to pause on that one let's start and again I may be overruled but let's start with our facilities um to begin to make sure that we're collecting fees so we can maintain them um because we again we're not collecting we weren't collecting we stopped collecting for anything new and we've never collected for maintenance really so we we need to do that and I'm I'm sorry to my colleagues but I just thought that was this is a complicated one to kick off so I'll I'll turn it over anybody else that wants to give comments beyond that can I follow that and share some of what um I've been finding out but I also may ask um you mentioned the town attorney speaking about um just the reasoning potentially behind not entering into an agreement I just wanted to speak or give you an opportunity to speak well I think it's important to recognize why there were agreements there were agreements because GTAA wanted to make improvements uh Capital facilities buildings um on Town property and so they were hiring contractors contractors were on Town property there's of course anytime you have projects in the use of your property you're potentially exposed to liability um so the using the most recent agreement the 2010 agreement as an example there were improvements made for uh concession stands and some uh Storage storage buildings and things of that nature that were on the property and that and in exchange for that the town recognized what already was recognized which was was that the jtaa was the town's Youth Sports provider um that you didn't really need an agreement to do that but that's that was the basis of the agreement so um going forward if there's to be an agreement I think it's incumbent upon Council to identify well what what are the benefits or what are the gain means that the town would receive from jtaa and you know it may be some of the organizational things that they do in lie of having Town staff do those organizational things um and then likewise well what what is it that the town provides for jtaa recognizing of course that only about 50% of jtaa is actually Town residents so um the on the capital side of thing or the income side of things what's been missing in the town for years of course you know when JTA started the town was much smaller and the the whole area was much smaller was difficult to get enough teams solely within the town of Jupiter to have what you might call a league so using baseball as an example um depending on the population you know you would want to have five or six teams that would would play one another um and one of the ways that that was done this is a little bit of a history lesson is that they uh the scope of the player pool was expanded to go beyond just the Incorporated limits say Jupiter Farms um you taquesta not much was coming out of Juno Beach because in Juno Beach and the baseball side thinks there's a separate little league that that goes there the agreement expired at the time the agreement expired the town was in active litigation with the aforementioned Martin County resident um the town spent well over $100,000 defending that lawsuit and the law was premised on the agreement and specifically on the agreement stating that jtaa was the um preferred Youth Sports provider in the town of Jupiter the plaintiff characterized that as the exclusive Sports provider which wasn't correct but at the same time there really is no other sports provider in Jupiter there's a provider in Jupiter there's a provider in Palm Beach Gardens the P yaa um as you go further south North Palm Beach has its own uh youth programs so the recommendation of not entering into an agreement was specifically directed towards the existing litigation and the fact that we had the town had been sued over the existing agreement and once it expired our Theory um which never played out because we were able to um file a motion for summary judgment which later the the plff just dismissed its lawsuit recognizing it was going to lose but the theory was that uh we didn't want to perpetuate this Anti-Trust litigation theory that the plaintiff had by then entering into another agreement once it expired our defense one of our defenses was one of the town's defenses was well there is no agreement between jtaa and the town so there can't be an Anti-Trust violation if there's no agreement between the two parties because that was their theory of the the case that the two parties had entered into this agreement and had conspired to keep any other youth provider out of the town of Jupiter in this case it was a uh travel soccer team so it wasn't even an even analysis because JTA uh was providing at that time approximately 16 different types of programs and different types of sports this youth provider was just one sole soccer travel team across age grps from I think it went from 9 all the way up to uh 12 or 16 years old so that was the basis of not re uh recommending another agreement but if Council decides that it's important to have an agreement and and I'm not sure what it would be about having an agreement the formal agreement that would be important to the relationship of jtaa providing Youth Sports programs I mean I I I don't I think as you can see now there's no agreement now there still providing the programs the town's still providing the facilities for their programs so what would be gained out of a formal agreement I'm not I'm not sure I I should also note that the previous agree the 1996 agreement was the one that provided the T the town provided $115,000 annually to them um and the second agreement was more focused on Capital facilities although The First Agreement had that element to it also so if if uh you wish to pursue a formal agreement I think it's incumbent upon staff to identify well what is it that the town wants to get out of this formal agreement and it's important for jtaa to identify well what is it that jtaa wants to get out of this agreement and then it's important for both of those parties to identify well what are we getting for what we're giving um because the the agreement presumes that both sides are getting something out of that formal relationship something something more I would say something more than what they get out of it now which is a pretty straight uh reciprocal relationship of town provides facilities Town provides to some extent an organization framework the town staff works with the jtaa executive director and then the jtaa in turn provides uh a an executive director essentially that runs those jtaa programs just uh to the degree I was saying I was thank you for bringing it up you know my takeaway was the gardens happen to have an agreement with palm Garden Youth Athletic League or Athletic Association what I what to me it did and I'm not saying we have to have it but I'd like Town attorney to look at it and see is this problematic because I don't know they're bound to them but what it did do is it covered all the stuff that we're not covering now which is user fees um which we need to address so really we had evolved to being more like both of doing some kind of services for one another and then gee did you really need an agreement for that but JTA would need to know what the fees we're going to be charging if we are so to to do their business so whether this turns out to be an agreement which the gardens had it seems like the contents of what the what is put together that we all got um exhibit a b c um it seem to be thoughtful um that should be addressed if we're going to go down this path of saying yeah there should be user fees and they should be different for Town residents versus somebody in Martin County and and elsewhere um but and we should again be mindful in my mind of you know not wanting to tax Town residents with paying more um and they because they already are in the way of taxes right so they should be getting lower fee and we would want to make sure that whatever Sports organization is using our field is in fact administering it fairly the way we want it um so it's different but I turn it back to you yeah I may have questions for Kristen I'm gonna move this plant sorry that's better um so I mean it is a very complicated situation because there are so many agreements that rely on each other and this is my understanding and I want to confirm my understanding but it's seems a bit more complex even than what we're discussing um because the agreement in part is because of the school district and the need to use those facilities is that right what is the current status of talks with the school district because um it's my understanding that they may require an agreement you know should there ever be anything in the future with their facilities for Middle Schools is that right because with high schools we do share or they do use town facilties we used some of their facilities and there was no cost but with middle schools in the past there was a cost there was a cost yes okay for the middle schools we paid 195,000 over the 5 years to get priority usage ultimately for jtaa for that gym space and just quickly on that so that's the town of Jupiter paying the middle schools for those teams where 50% are Jupiter residents is the village of Testa is the county is there any caution sharing to the school district for that group or is it solely on the town of Jupiter when The Residency percentage is lower it when it relates to the school district it is specific to the town of Jupiter okay the county does not pay anything and correct me if I'm wrong for JTA to utilize any of the spaces within the schools there's no interlocal agreements the cost sharing or Arrangement whereby yeah it could be fair um another thing I want to talk about is I want to try to understand the differences between Gardens and Jupiter and again it's complicated because of that District Park which is a county park don't get me started I'm still trying to figure that one out but um you know yeah uh what I what I understand is that Gardens does charge user fees and it charges a higher fee for Jupiter residents and and they pay into it but Gardens also uses 100% Gardens facilities do they use School District facilities do they use facilities County facilities do they use other Municipal facilities I do know that they use the Schoolboard facilities they have a pretty all-inclusive uh agreement with the Palm Beach County School District for use of all of the Palm Beach Gardens schools in fact that's something that we've been referencing as we've gone into discussions with the school board of mimicking that interlocal agreement and we've been met with a little bit of resistance from the school board to be honest uh we've had drafts that we were presented that we marked up we've now presented them to the school district who is now mulling that over we've had some discussions questions and answers and their next step is to come back to us with a next iteration of the agreement that is specific to Jupiter High School but it also will incorporate other schools into it so it would be a one interlocal agreement that includes all schools and all Town facilities they're moving away from doing what we have had in the past which was three separate multip M uh interlocal agreements for the the multiple schools so capturing it under one and yes their requirement is that we do have a formal agreement with any users that are to gain space through the town so that would include anyone like jtaa or anyone else AO yep all anyone that the town tries to get space for would have to have a formal agreement with the town in order to procure that space unless they work separately on their own like jtaa right now has a method and has a process that they have followed with the school district to pay a very lowest cost possible which is a nonprofit cost that the school board charges for them to to utilize the gymnasiums essentially so there has been a process developed they did raise user fees to account for those costs and I believe that's been at least a couple of years at this point and we haven't heard much from parents or anything bling at the fact that they have not been able to get gym space or at any increased costs and we don't know what the cost would be in our negotiation with the school board obviously they're going to be different from 2021 so okay so um another difference is that okay so Palm Beach Gardens uses School District facilities but outside of those facilities I guess in field or other um they are majority um Gardens facilities Gardens managed so it's more cohesive I would say more you know what I what I'm getting from talking to different stakeholders is that Jupiter um has more of a mix of facilities it uses the village of taquesta recreation center and some of the fields potentially it uses Jupiter Farms Fields um it uses Jupiter Fields so I don't know the percentages of each of those but to the extent that some teams might be assigned to Jupiter Farms and other teams might be assigned to Jupiter and we would charge a user fee but the county wouldn't charge like the county has its own user fee access process and then the village of Testa has its own user fee access process so it it gets complicated and how do you manage that with the different groups um is this is this all correct or is this do I have the right understanding on some of this and it's jtaa that has those abilities to work with the fee structures at those facilities I don't think they pay for Palm Beach Garden or I'm sorry Palm Beach County facilities because they fall under the County's Youth Sports provider they have a written agreement with the county for use of Jupiter uh Farms Park um I'm not sure if there's any other facilities that they utilize more than that West Jupiter Community Center so it's like maybe 90% Jupiter facilities oh yes roughly okay maybe more okay um okay and then another thing I thought of was you know yes The Residency numbers are low and it would be great to get them higher um what I understand is that they're not turning away students or or children that want to play It's not that there is this huge demand and they're choosing in a way that might be leaving someone out it's they're able to accommodate everyone with with a few rare exceptions if they register very late so this is essentially just a snapshot of who's interested because they're able to accept all of who's interested is that right that is my impression I know they do try very hard to keep waiting lists down if there are any basketball which is the largest one that encounter it varies a little by sport yeah okay so um I mean I'm very sensitive to the fact that we are paying so much and we are about to embark on a recreation master plan that will benefit the town of Jupiter but they are the ones paying for these upgrades and the residency requirements are concerning um you know and I had wondered you know as we discuss openly and talk about what we've been learning and thinking about um just ways to increase that um percentage of Jupiter residents you know can we what can the town do for JTA can we help the market can we I don't know if that's a need or not right my I have a limited understanding here but uh that was just one thought was somehow working with that the second is in terms of um residency you know you had talked about the school district and the work that goes into that and I agree I think I think that I mean I'm not sure we need an agreement um firstly but if we ever did have one I would hope that we could negotiate a way out of that because that is not the best use of town staff time um but to um I'm losing my train of thought uh it's huh it's the holidays guys no but um and just to speak to that real quick that was one of the concerns that we had with the school district in our most recent conversation was the laborious task that it takes to get space on behalf of a user group so that was something that the school district committed into looking into seeing if they do that for any of the other school and local agreements that they have with municipalities so then it's also a lot of work to determine residency is that a big part I mean that's a big part of all the programs you do summer camps everything can you speak to the work involved or how I I'm just thinking that as we work through this there's a lot more to it maybe than originally meets the eye and I don't want to rush I don't know if we are rushed but um that's another thing I'm thinking about y with the residency what we have been doing is that the uh the travel teams that apply or organizations that apply to utilize town space that's the percentage that we're requiring the 50% for the recreation it hasn't been as big of a deal most of their programs and as an organization they're very close to that 50% and the majority then thereafter comes from the greater Jupiter area with the smallest participants coming from outside the area so when it when we run the reports for the the travel teams it is a team effort we have to ask jtaa for all of the addresses unique addresses for participants for every roster then that information gets imported into Excel we send that to our GIS Department who then separates it out and can tell us exactly what percentages and number of kids come from Incorporated outside of Jupiter palage Gardens they can separate it out very specifically for us but that takes time and staff resources in another department that's not used to working with recreational or or Sports programs um so it is it is a timec consuming process but we do that for every travel organization and every travel season we have not captured it completely for recreation because we've got what we presented in the report but as the council was requesting that information we were running reports on that okay um so it's tied into that and then we also have our Master planning process where it's not complete correct we have surveyed families residents we do have a sense but not formally yet you know we haven't finalized this so we have a lot of different efforts on Parallel tracks yes and a lot will happen depending on what the school district comes back with or what we might be able to work out with JTA and then what ends up becoming of the master plan in terms of the final recommendations and costs associated with them and um I think the mayor's correct you know we did have these um sources of revenue coming in we were you know the town I guess that was the time you know Abacoa was built and the impact fees associated with that those are gone so we do need to you know this infrastructure is 20 25 years old we it's time it's time for recreation um and we're we're doing it we're we've got a strong start but um it's got to be fair to Jupiter taxpayers it and it has to be if there's cost sharing or um staff time you know it's something that um resonates from the [Music] presentation by the way I'm going to move on but just to address that's why I said put the school district agreement aside because when we did it when we asked you know our director at that time to pursue that we were hearing that JTA was having difficulties getting it so we thought hey we have a partnership they use our facilities let's see if we can't do it for them but to the degree that didn't work out for us we were paying a fee and they weren't putting it back into school it didn't work so quite frankly i' put it aside unless you know because in the absence of that JTA would have was going into the schools and getting what they could get so to me table it because it'd be JTA stepping up and saying yeah could you get an agreement again in which case we'd say well we will if you pay whatever the fees are going to be right I mean that kind of so again we have to start somewhere so I just want to make it clear that's why I said it's that's complicated it didn't work out as we expected and uh and we don't have one now so let's and I just want to bring up you know one of the qu that document I was referring to the gardens charges and I asked you know it's a $56 fee for non-resident res registration and I said what what's the time period the non-re resident registration fee was assessed for each sport registration every season now it's unfair about that is you know for travel for example 10% of the travel population is from the gardens so here we are and that's why I brought it up to the you know Gardens mayor and and saying hey we're looking at yours as a benchmark you know but um so in turn we have Jupiter residents that are in the gardens league and they're paying a $56 you know I'm just saying what trying to be fair here but that's why I do believe that's a starting point if you will certainly it's not fair for our taxpayers anybody in the county to be paying for Martin County you know anybody to know the history Martin County used the people in Martin County south of the park used to be called The Lost tribe because Martin County you know wouldn't pay anything for their um there is no you know wreck facilities or whatever well hey it's time for them to pay a fee right again we can decide what that is but it's not fair inherently uh we have to we have to get caught up now right with the new era here as we're putting a lot of money in so I just want to emphasize that you know I think each one of us ought to look staff ought to come back and look at that but I'm just trying to advocate for why I think that's a reasonable starting point we don't have to agree to all of it but because the gardens thought it through I mean they have based on they have a different discount based on residency percentages right I mean I'm not saying it's perfect but we haven't done this they have right so with that let me move down to dis to councelor May to um yeah I mean I I agree with what's been said so far I think I would never be in the in a position where I'm going to charge a Jupiter resident to use utilize the facilities that they already pay for um so if we're looking at you know and it would be something we'd want to work out with JTA where you could say okay if you have Jupiter residents registering for your sports they're not going to pay this fee but if you have anybody in the outside area they would be paying the fee so we can figure out what that fee is I mean we could you know benchmark it off of gardens or come up with our own based on what we need to do to our facilities to get them up to speed because they are definitely in need of some uh RNR uh you know a lot of the fields and stuff like that so um you know I I know we've had a great agreement a great relationship with JTA for a number of years um you know I I right now I coach uh JTA Sports and my kids are participating so I'm directly impacted as well but um and a lot of the kids that you know that were on my team and other teams and stuff they are Jupiter residents as well some from the out other surrounding areas you know right uh unincorporated areas mostly so um you know it's I think you know we continue with that having a formal agreement like the town attorney said kind of puts us in a in a difficult spot and it's a it's a tricky situation so um I want to continue the relationship that we have with JTA make it as easy as possible on them for when they're trying to allocate field space and reserve and stuff and I know I sat with Kristen uh and Adam uh a couple months ago trying to figure out how to uh facilitate their you know their needs and and expedite what they're trying to allocate for field usage and gymnasium space and stuff so I mean I mean I think it's been going well so far with what we what we have you know in place right now so I don't want to really want to muddy up any of that but as far as uh fees and stuff like that I do agree that I think outside of the Jupiter area um there probably should be a fee just to help us with you know our restoration of our our parks and our fields and stuff so I mean I'll just keep it short tonight I I know it's just a round table but you know I'm in agreement with you know trying to give staff some direction and look at what you know that would look like and you can come back to us at a different time so and then as far as the Ila I've always wanted an Ila with the school district because not just for jca but there has been some other programs coming up that have wanted to utilize you know just the the grass field at J at Jupiter Elementary um which is looks terrible to begin with but still field usage and uh you know for other program um that you know that's not JTA that want to be able to utilize those um those facilities um I wanted an Ila in place for that if if possible so I know we're not we're kind of separating the two right now but I know we'll continue to work on the trying to get an Ila with the school district so um but yeah if it comes down to it we have an Ila and it helps JTA then I'd be in supportive of that so uh so this was my strategic one of my initiatives last year and and this is exactly what I wanted to hear I wanted to hear from all all my colleagues uh my kids also participate in J uh jtaa they cycled out um and we saw needs for you know in indoor usage all all sorts of things but um you know uh the whole funding Paradigm has changed with as a mayor mentioned the impact lack of or probably the you know the the the Twilight of the impact views from development and I I always looked at the uh I was very concerned with the fairness to Jupiter uh taxpayers the you know the um and Jupiter kids not being you know a high enough ratio participating in the sports uh overpaying and all that so um I just this I just thought you know we had we've always had the great JTA relationship uh and then the the problem came up with the lawsuit and so I'm I'm I'm sort of um dubious about another like formal relationship obviously it's working now without one so I I just want to keep continue to hear you all have to say a lot of information here I'm not going to make any decisions tonight obviously but um this is the direction I want it to go so I'll turn the mic over to my colleague thank you um I guess one of the things I want to differentiate is if a a three or four friends up in hobtown wanted to come down through a frisbee in one of our Parks there's no requirement there's no agreement or nothing that would cover that no you're talking organized Sports only yes organized make that clear to the public um I I think like everybody had two kids go through jtaa and actually at the time I thought I was part of Jupiter yeah you hear Jupiter Quest he just figur it's part of municipality but I am I am a Jupiter Town council member and as such I'm I'm responsible to the citizens of Jupiter also a county taxpayer I'm a taxpayer to the school system um but I'm here to represent the town and the town is paying for things that other people are using and I think that's somewhat fundamentally unfair um I I like the idea of a a fee for non-residents but I'm also I'm not just a town counselor I'm a caring human I'm concerned about people who who can't afford some type of additional fee so maybe we could think about um an Indigent waiver for a fee for non-residents or somebody if they could show they're in a snap program or some other program they're already enrolled in we could wave a fee but I I fundamentally like the idea of leveling the playing field start parting the upon of nonresidents paying a fee it's not as though our residents aren't paying the fee they are through taxes they're paying the fee so there's a wave of waiver of fee for non-residents and that's not entirely fair so there needs to be some way we can figure out to level the playing field everybody needs to pay some to be able to use this unless they're not capable of paying it um as far as agreements go I'm not very shy about agreements I think Agreements are somewhat like fences they make good neighbors and I have every faith in the world that Mr be could put together an agreement that would be better for us than being uh agreement free for instance our liability right now exists whether we have an agreement or not um might it be possible that we could get some type of waiver of Li liability with some of these agreements um you had mentioned liability for having contractors on the property and that has a clear uh liability associated with it but but what if one of our Our Town Vehicles backed over a group of kids they're you know as horrible as that would be with no agreement on and no waiver I don't know that we would be in a particularly good position and I I don't think you can wave gross negligence or other type of problem strictly legal concerns but could we not put together an agreement that would be very beneficial to the town and limiting our liability is that something we could do do is that within our ability Mr bear do you think well as I said I I need to know what it is that the council would like to agree to I mean what what what are the terms of that agreement what is what is the town receiving from jtaa is part of that agreement what is beyond giving or allowing jtaa to use Town facilities what is the town providing to jtaa right I think one of the things that was presented to us is the the administrative burden they take off the town which must be huge to to put together all of these events and well I I I I think you would have to you would have to do some kind of analysis of that what what it means because other other Youth Athletic organizations provide the same type of framework that jtaa provides in terms of coaches and all of those organizations because it protects them have requirements for uh background checks and and uh other types of um protections because they're they're a legal entity too and and you know that's how they're protecting themselves from Individual liabilities through the organization well as you pointed out before um the jtaa is just one of the organizations that's using this maybe we should have an agreement with all organizations I'm not aware of other organizations like jaata there's nothing quite like it because of its pure size well there's no other organization that provides 16 Sports right she sheer size but there are I the other organizations and this was you know part of what was going on in the lawsuit the other organizations are travel teams that want to come in and use the town's facilities but there's no currently uh and has not been any fee for using that facility um and actually given the number of partic participants from JTA both Recreation and travel there's no space for other organizations to come in and use facilities that's part of what drove the lawsuit was that there was no this individual you know B for all intents and purposes although his residency was in Martin County lives in Jupiter wanted to use Jupiter facilities even though he wasn't a taxpayer of Jupiter and reduces his travel they they wound up uh leasing a facility um down in Gard Palm Beach Gardens from a a private organization but you know that I think that was what in part uh was so adverse to the council at that time was that well wait a minute here's an organization that is comprised of less than 50% of Jupiter residents and they want to use a Jupiter facility for free and they would like the town to displace jtaa where there's been this long historical relationship um and require JTA to essentially take a backseat at least with respect to soccer so that they could use the towns fields and it just you know I mean I would have loved to have done that opening argument I can imagine sounds right for msj but I I this is the first I'd heard of space issues so we're we're booked I guess is what you're saying well I you know staff can elaborate but it it's really dependent on the sport in part um so that really brings up indoor space has has always been an issue because the town has its wonderful Community Center but not every uh the county doesn't provide a similar facility in the in the North End Gardens has a a Facility North Palm has a facility but um you know it as far as basketball indoor volleyball those kinds of sports th those facilities are limited and then uh you know we found out during the litigation just uh you know soccer is a very popular sport um lots of families from the North End playing in it and you know the town just doesn't have um the number of facilities really in part again depending on the season to to meet that um demand well I think it's pretty clear both um spacewise and MoneyWise to the town residents should be given priority and that's that's my cut feel for that's what I'd be willing to go along with I'm I still I'm not particularly shy of coming up with some type of agreement that would um you know specify what some of the things we're saying if it's doable I think if I may just to build on that um number one and I should emphasize this but I think it's implied um um you know jtaa has served this community for 60 years we're all grateful for them they're made they really are a volunteer program in large part now I know they hired an executive director now but they're a volunteer program and they've done a great job for years so none of this conversation is about we have any issues I have any issues with jtaa let me make that clear um we uh but I'd submit it is not working because the the situation we had was working when we had a lot of money on impact fees and whatever and we're both doing upgrades Capital Improvements which I don't see anybody stepping up and we have operation costs that go up year after year so what the gardens accomplished is and I don't want because JTA has to manage what they charge and a lot of the volunteers are from unincorporated areas some were from Martin County that was the issue this resident thought he was claimed he was in Jupiter was in Jupiter zip code but in Martin County you know but uh bottom line is what the gardens accomplished was establishing user fees and at least trying in a way that the Youth Organization then had to use them because they collect the user fee they said you know what you're going to tell us where everybody is and then you're going to pay us so therein all this is transparent then they wouldn't charge Garden residence right so it's not that we're trying to be punitive we hope everybody understands that town residents are already paying taxes to the town nobody else is okay so the user fees is not intended to get get be the end be all it's just a portion um quite frankly I'm seeing these user fees will be probably more for operating costs than you know Capital but that's to be determined when you look at how much we're talking about here uh but I just can't overemphasize that we're satisfied when we're thrilled with jtaa we're not up here as you know Jupiter you know Representatives trying to get others to pay for it but it's a fairness thing I think we've all made that pretty clear I can't overemphasize that hey maybe this isn't a agreement maybe this is just it's just the criteria by which anybody using our facilities would have to contribute to the town so we have some revenues to pay for our cost if you will right in the way of you scholarships by the way is JTA has always had to some degree scholarships and then others offer scholarships to those that are needy whether they're in the town whether in any unincorporate area whether in Martin so scholarships are kind of have always been fundamentally part of what they do I just wanted to emphasize that right uh but uh but again this was just our kickoff here um I'm glad everybody weighed in I'm going to give everybody an opportunity in wrapping up but I think this is all we could give in the way of initial guidance it's a complicated matter but stand down on the school district one and but you know you hear from JTA you know we understood under the different circumstances what that's worth but we'd have to be collecting user fees for that facility that isn't ours if we're in fact paying the the school district for it right so that would kind of would work itself out that way but I'd rather not get distracted by that I'd like to start we think we all wanted to start with fundamentally the basics of let's see what the gardens did and see whether or not I did some numbers but you know have the staff come up with what would that be in the way of Revenue sure come back to us and see and then everybody can weigh in I don't think that's fair or that's fair I was just submitting we're blessed with the gardens just went through this right so it's probably the most thorough cuz they were kicking off all new facilities in a way mhm so it's so I have no problem U charging a fee to cover operating cost that seems really straightforward Capital Improvement fees is are another issue but covering operation costs that's very straightforward I we saw a spreadsheet on that's that's a significant cost for us yeah we're just upgrading the business model to the current market conditions I look at correct pretty much we're doing so yep not punitive great relationship with JTA just um modernizing a little bit so but I do think we have to continue to talk to the school district I think about some of these other groups and I'm not 100% opposed to that either at this early stage I think all these things are evolving but um where we can be an advocate for our residents and our programs and our partners before a school district that is also changing its rules that's making life tougher for all of us um we've worked with them for a long time if we can be Advocates there and try to come up with an agreement that works for all of us um in terms of time and resources and that's fair um I think it's worth the effort and you know with their new rules I mean it won't just be GTA but there may be others that benefit from it so again it's all evolving we'll see what we end up with um but I'm not I'm not yeah I think we should I'm not closed to that at this point in time I think we're in a good place with the school district we had asked for their feedback prior to the holidays I'm not confident that we're going to get it just with their quick schedule it's coming up before us in four days so I'm guessing that after the first of the year we'll receive the next iteration of the draft between the two of us and we'll sit down again and uh see what that looks like and I can report back to the council how that goes I'm not going to obviously JTA gets the priority and some of the action items that I receiv received tonight that I can respond to immediately include circulating the PBG parage Gardens and the PBG yaa uh agreement that's out there so that you all have that for reference as the mayor talked about and then we can also do a benchmark study of what other municipalities are charging non-resident user fees for um as a benchmark anyways would you do that by the way let's make sure we're capturing those that are still in the impact fee you know cycle we're not right so that's a distinguishing difference um I would think Wellington might be in that category for example Gardens is still doing well with that exactly so exactly so we're not um so that's a distinguishing difference it's important to make sure when you Benchmark you know you remind us on that um you know I again about jtaa and I'm going to just share a per perception and I'm sure they're going to get back with you on reality um I have grandkids now in JTA right it goes to full cycle you know so we're under the third or fourth generation in JTA over 60 years so I have a granddaughter who's in travel soccer perception I have is JTA it's within their control when its feels I believe gee we practice a lot out in farms because probably the gardens I'm going to guess there's nothing wrong with that it's in the evenings when you know it's not desire vble and um maybe there's less fee they'll always have that prerogative on use of fields right and then also when are tournaments a lot of them on Sunday when wreck programs don't want to use it right ever so the only thing we'd want to think about is you know allowing a field to rest but other than that they really are going out in large part that's what they've gone to over the years right and I think you had it in your write ups I I want to it's all complicated here but you know we're not the only whatever change we introduce here JTA still has available to them other sources that they can man manage right I mean the county does have the um the county uh Community Center if you will which is at Central and it's not used much but there is some indoor space there that JTA uses because I know I've been there um in any event it's there a very good grasp of this I'm I'm glad happy to provide it for you thank you've given me some good direction and I will respond back after speaking with the town manager and assistant Town manager and are there any other questions or anything I can provide for this evening no but I'm glad it sounds like you folks have kept up a good relationship with the the school board and everything always and I will'll remind you that we are planning on coming back with another round table okay we can update you on this information and then we're also going to dive a little bit deeper into the allocation process and what that looks like for travel and Recreation and potential user fee structure for outside groups using town space since they there are no fees charged for that and there are a number of outside groups that do come in aside from JTA that are wanting to use space more and more so we can Circle back on that with you thank you very much for your good work M great job you can I just ask the town manager you feel you got Direction tonight we did mayor thank you and I want to thank Kristen for the presentation that she's done she's done a really good job a lot of work on this and the staff is here with her as well so appreciate it and I think we've gotten some good direction from you seems to be some consistency thank you and I'm happy to see jtaa is here too we've got some good representation from them I know this is something that they've kept their fingers on the pulse and it's a it's a partnership that goes a long way between the two of us so thank you and happy holidays everyone thank you mayor there is a citizen comment as well yes and citizen Adam again all right uh good evening Adam Magan executive director for jtaa uh first off I just want to say thank you so much for having this conversation I appreciate all the work staff has done uh keeping us in the loop asking for data that we can provide to everybody but having this conversation I think is a a great step in the in the next you know the direction that we we lead forward a couple things I'd like to just speak on there's a lot to unpack but I'll kind of keep it as brief as possible um to the point that you know a comment was made that that JTA really hasn't given back much you know either financially or anything like that to the town uh staff can attest that that we whenever there's something that needs fixing or Improvement I I we always say hey how can we help do this if it's scoreboards uh like JCP we we intermittently some don't work hey can we purchase scoreboards for the town uh obviously gets a little maybe muddled if you know if JT is purchasing it and obviously it's the town's equipment but we are happy to to do that and and I reach out to to staff and we talk about it uh what can we do to help out in that aspect so so please know that we are offering it's not it's not we're we're not taking the fields for granted or facilities for granted that it's just the town's responsibility we're all here together to provide an opportunity for the kids of the community a place to play uh a few other things to point out I know we're not going to dive too much into the school district agree agreement but since 2021 when the agreement expired and JT how to go to the schools to rent space excuse me uh we have spent almost $500,000 for that space so the $39,000 a year that town was spending on behalf of JTA is just a drop in the bucket compared to the $500,000 we've SP spent since that time the agreement was no or expired excuse me um a significant right that is that's quite a bit of money just this past year we spent over $200,000 between Jupiter Middle School Independence Middle School a little bit in Duncan Middle School for our facilities as we break it down a little further into Recreational Sports where everybody is included that's $198 an hour for a wreck basketball game so for your Jupiter residents you know this fee does get past through them to some degree but that's $198 an hour that's that's significant U so I just wanted to point that out from the school district standpoint you know we have absorbed that cost uh it is a nonprofit rate but plus fees plus fees plus fees then all of a sudden we're we're at almost $198 an hour so did want to point that out um you know when we when we talk about residency status our goal is to provide the community as a whole an opportunity to part participate uh we can't control where everybody comes from uh when we talk about fees just real quick I want to point this out because we use so many different facilities to differentiate what a Jupiter resident using Jupiter Community Park or Jupiter Farms park on a recreational sport basis is next to Impossible we don't know we may have a boy's 10-year-old division that only plays at Jupiter Farms park but we may not know that until the last minute so how do we assess them a nonresident fee um so yeah just I appreciate the conversation uh I can share any further information if whatever anybody needs thank you anybody else any more citizen comments okay thank you um moving on to reports uh Town attorney well I the discussion about the school district this is not really a report it's just a rhetorical question I I'm going to put out there for you all to think about and staff to think about it's because we're you were talking about Jupiter residents paying for Jupiter facilities so all property owners in Palm Beach County pay taxes to the school district for their facilities why is it that our children on top of the taxes we're paying to use those facilities then have to pay additional user fees for those facilities just a rhetorical question maybe should be brought up in some discussion with the school district but you know I mean my my kids never played at the school district's facilities but I pay I'm still paying taxes lots of taxes for those facilities so the the only uh real report I have is to say happy holidays to all of you I hope it's a very uh peaceful and joyous season for you and um I'll see you next year aren't you going to play your tie again just for the record here closing if I must you must That's all folks and nobody's left nobody's left but everybody should know we try to have a tie contest and uh so Mr Barrett always wins the Musical one and and I always have I think the more funner looking one but we have a newcomer now if the town manager will stand up I do believe that uh um stand up what what's on that TI uh Charlie Brown I think I think he may win this year but uh since since he's a rookie I got to give it to [Music] him okay uh Town manager thank you mayor I'm not really sure how I could possibly top the town attorney but I'm not even going to try I'm just going to report out on a couple of items real quick um so we received notification today from the project team on the US1 bridge that the navigation Channel under the bridge will be closed to all boat traffic this Friday December 20th from 8:00 a.m. until 6:00 p.m. the closure is to allow for the installation of the girds on the bridge um I would also like to take an opportunity to recognize and congratulate Deputy fire chief Steve Shaw and EMS division Chief Tim Ro for both of whom recently received the Donal Donald D betrillo paramedic lifetime Achievement Award from the Broward County Fire Chiefs Association this award recognizes Chief Shaws and chief roach's extraordinary achievements in the in the EMS Field during their careers and is a testament to the dedicated and accomplished staff that have joined the Jupiter fire rescue department so congratulations to them also wanted to recognize two of our employees who have reached some significant milestones in their employment with the town last week Gary shares who works at the water plant C ated 30 years of service to the town and tomorrow Jerry koada who also works in public works will celebrate 35 years with the town Gary and Jerry are two of more than 100 employees who have worked for the town for 20 years or more uh which you've heard me say more than much I think speaks volumes of the dedication of our employees so I wanted to make sure to recognize them and uh finally I I concur with what the town attorney says I want to wish everybody a happy holidays and a very happy New Year um 2025 promises to be an exciting year for the town of Jupiter as we celebrate the town's 100th birthday and we're pretty excited about that and so um so happy holidays to all of you and happy New Year as well that's my report mayor thank you um I'll start together in councelor May um so today uh was pretty cool we got the tour of the uh the US1 Bridge um very encouraged with the progress that they they've made so far and uh hopefully we'll have some traffic moving over it here shortly um so they haven't they won't provide a hard date but I can say it uh we are hopeful that it will be very soon so um I just wanted to I had a request come through um from uh Congressman Mass office um asking if we can get a proclamation um for recognizing the Loach battle lahache Battlefield reenactment that's going to be taking place in January um I think the County's going new one but I think uh be appropriate for us to have a proclamation to recognize uh that um it'll be taking place on January 25th of 2025 um you know and significance to us with uh Fort Jupiter being in pinic point and everything like that um so I think it'd be cool if we could uh have a proclamation for that um and other than that happy holidays Merry Christmas happy Hanukkah all the things to everybody out there and uh hopefully everyone's uh has a healthy and safe holiday thanks mayor keeping it short happy marry [Music] everything just a just a couple quick items just to close on the school district you know I know cuz knowing how schools work as we all do there are some incremental costs to allow the facility to be used after hours they have to have somebody there there is some cleanup you know residents use the restrooms and whatever so it's not without cost and I really much greatly appreciate JTA stepping up because when we did get the agreement we were doing on behalf of JTA but we didn't end up getting reimbursed for that so I appreciate knowing that it still paid off because if JTA was willing then you know to cover the cost we would have to pay so that it's lower cost on the kids then there's some value in pursuing that uh but so that's where you're sharing that helps us if you will thank you um I just want to say that um in on behalf of all of us we're trying to be everybody's trying to be brief cuz you know um to get done but you know snow place like Jupiter CU it's happened since our last meeting we we all were thought it was an incredible event um and um you know it it perpetuates a small it gets better and better every year staff puts a lot of time into that I just looked every so many small town memories were being created with people that were there so I really just want to enclosing te thank you staff for doing that you know we may have come up with the event but they take it the next step every year right and there's an incred amount of work to be done and then you know then the next night you think about it we have a boat parade and then the next night we have the Jupiter JTA parade and um oh my gosh isn't that special you know it's 35 there was 3300 participants in the parade um and there was many thousands of um people along the Route I I know that I had my wife and I had 2,000 pieces and we we only gave it to the little kids and ran out so it's incredible you know those events um and you know at a I'm I'm grateful and uh you know and it was there in fact if we look at uh you know the parade director who tried to retire a few years ago nobody took his job and he still does it um that um you know in his wrap-up synopsis you he talked about the prade having been created you know by JTA 50 years ago right so what does that really say is they've always been part of the Town um and you know we're going to I've asked Town manager and he was jumped all you in agreement that we're going to in January you know bring back those that were involved with that to appropriately thank them you know for for that because uh certainly we we all think that's such a special part so uh again uh that that's really the other than to say uh to everybody you know which we ready you're going to see tomorrow the next day but happy holidays to everybody and uh enjoy the time off uh whatever time off you have with family and whatever and I move down to das here to councelor Delaney yeah I just want to add on to councelor May's comment about um the tour of the bridge today it was it was impressive like I said before there's a lot of work and they're pushing for that end of the month date I hope they get there a lot of variables but we'll see and it mayor Ive a a Christmas Pro um not proc a a proposition if You' indulge me as we close out the final meeting of the year and we all get ready to take some time off to spend the holidays with friends and family we should reflect on all that the town is accomplished in 2024 the amount of hard work dedication and teamwork exhibited by Town employees throughout the years has been extraordinary whether it's finishing an important project that adds value to the community or just providing that excellent level of service we've come to expect on a daily basis it all contributes to the quality of life we all enjoy in Jupiter to that end I'd like to propose that we do our own version of quote unquote government shutdown except in our case it's not due to budgetary issues rather it's to celebrate and allow our employees some extra time to rest and enjoy the time with their loved ones the town is closed for December 24th and 25th for the for the Christmas holidays let's extend this town government holiday closure for one more day to include the December 26th now some of our employees are considered quote unquote critical and some of our operations are open 24 hours a day 7 days a week to these employees I know I speak for the entire Community when I say thank you for your sacrifice for being away from your loved ones on the holiday so that you can take care of the community and I know that there are policies in place that allow those critical personnels to be taken care of when the rest of the Town closes for the holidays I trust that those policies can be applied to this onetime situation so that everybody is compensated appropriately if my town colleagues agree Town manager Frank Kito would be authorized to make an announcement to employees and to work and work to make the necessary administrative arrangements so basically let's give everybody uh the day after Christmas off I agree okay so moved second absolutely Y and what gets done the day after Christmas anyway right nothing they deserve it it's been a long thank you to staff yeah thank you yeah thank you thank you for that and I will be sure to send that out although I suspect that by the time I get in the office in the morning this will have spread all over the place so but I'll do my best to make it official Council four you're going to hold us up from leaving so very quickly just wanted to touch back on the um 100 plus employees that are 20 years here now um our town manager claimed in good reason that it was dedication by the employees but I think it's pretty obvious it's a it's also a great work environment our Town's a really cool place and a no small part from our incredible staff and the captain of the team and I can't say enough about what you do for us on a day-to-day basis and what the staff in general does for us the extra mile every time we ask them to do anything they do the extra mile they create incredible uh presentations very well fought out incredibly well researched I'd give them all an A+ thank you very much Merry Christmas Happy Holidays happy Hanukkah everyone the time is now 9:32 and we'll join the meeting you do you a favor e