##VIDEO ID:ZcQ79DIUt3g## open up the PM's com on too right yeah the January 7th 2025 uh SE Commissioners meeting elay and I still watch and Ian is anybody on with us can you tell did I asked Tom Casey to join in case anybody had any questions about the change order with this yet so it's not on yet but just so you know pleas surpris when he comes on with DP said we don't have enough time to get any of this stuff on but I have a plan okay the stuff that we they said we did yes they Chang the line yes well not changed their mind like Tom had to go through some other individuals of the DP because he wasn't getting the timely response and then by the time they got the response uh the DP notified that no longer than they have to deadline of the 31st they have that everything needs to be in by the 20th and that they don't have time to put together all that stuff they got to get the closing documents together and have everything to the D by the 20 and we started this discussion back in August I want to I'll study what I'm going to say later okay so um we do have a change order for an additional $70,000 for uh cdm's uh Design Services for all the extra time energy that they've been putting in with the project being extended so if there's no questions make a motion if there's questions we can just wait till Tom jumps on is that in here yep it's in the it's like four pages in the back I know it says amendment number four at the top oh okay yeah there we so I'll I'll make a motion to increase the Design Services amount from $2,910 th000 to $2,980 th000 for an increase of $70,000 off second there um any discussion no no I think this was F see it again yeah all in favor I I okay that's done if we see time Jump on we can at least tell them that's and Dave you can sign this it has your name on the back signature page okay so since they're closing everything out oh this is the other I want later um tomorrow okay so that takes care of that um c will be back tomorrow too oh to sign and that's coming out of srf money so it's not that we don't have the phone uh let's go to um the email from Dave bugby um we received an email back in Before Christmas let's see what was the date original email was December 7th to Jean um resident had multiple questions on the sew increases and everything else and just on a very high level he asked what the propos we invited him to the meeting both physically or by zoom and answered his questions in attached they uh spreadsheet to supplement the answers to the questions the high level he asked what the proposed sewer rates were and the response was $143 with the $42 service fee each quarter rather than $10.40 and a $15 service fee uh cost of the proposed plant expansion response was the project is not closed out yet but the project estimate is 21 million towards this debt we received 4,317 527 in Grants and $5,997 at a 2 and a half% loan he asked for breakdown of operating expenses he was sent a spreadsheet that included one two 3 four five six seven budget periods uh went back to 2020 and the proposed 2026 Department requests and asked what the what caused the plant expansion and the highlights of that was the plant was reaching 80% of its permitted capacity uh without any additional customers being added and that's a threshold for D to um have the town have a plan in place or construction underway to make sure that it didn't exceed the 80% in addition to um the opportunity to get additional revenue for the town not for the town for the sewer customers and the demand that we had at that time do we plan on adding more users and the answer to that was basically yes but right now um unless a property already has water we're limited because the water department hasn't built a new well yet uh Dy well rates go down over time and the response to that was we continuously review our rates based on expenses and the addition of New Uses as they become available um then it asked about the leashing fields why is it necessary and it the response to that was it sub it supported the comp the original sewer plan back in the early 2000s to have four tanks up there built out and the fact that the current T the current leeching fields are o over 25 years old with and bond Council only um gives you a loan for 20 years because that's what they feel the life expectancy is of the leeching fields so the term is only asked about that what's the term of the loan 20 years based on Bond councel and what is the cost of the leeching fields and I the response was it's estimated at this time at about 8 million so and then supplemented with that email was again the budgets back to 2020 a list of the Town allocated costs to show that we're paying for Town services that total um over the years over anywhere from close to 300,000 each year inching up to 350,000 and that's for um Services provided by accounting the assesses The Collector the treasurer HR Town Administrator audit information Technologies and then in in addition included in that amount is the um specific Wastewater um funds which is for the health insurance and retirement things like that specific to the staff then it was asked about um showed how the addition of the fourth tank um would have brought in additional revenue and that additional Revenue would have um paid the existing shortfall in the debt that we have for the fourth tank the 413,000 a year give or take and would have also had funds available to pay towards the leion fields had the fourth tank been built out between user fees and betterments and just lists the mass Works Grant again we got over $4 million in the srf loan for the plan expansion was over 15 15 million so that was the gist of the email response and the um we haven't heard back from him but got an email today oh did we what happened we could make it the response oh I didn't okay I just oh okay so well he has an open invitation to join us at any [Music] time yeah yeah me grab yeah so Al yes 341 elain thank you so much for the detailed response I really appreciate it unfortunately I cannot make the me due to work commitments however the answers Willow address a vast majority of my questions thank you best day oh okay good so but I did have you know some there's lot of clarifications it's hard to write in response to this because you don't know how he interprets the things yeah you know and I have nuances that I add to it but it's um yeah really response I think prac to Sol this questions okay good and again you know like anybody else we welcome anybody to come and join us just done that yes back with them another point but just I've been saying this all long I said the use of operating management funds for Capital I think is that's alluded here we've done it but doing that is not a good thing agreed definitely not we need to recover it and I'll keep saying that every time I get agreed there's no to do it you have to do it the very very last absolutely no way out out of it that's the whole theme of what I'm going to be presenting I I agree 100% operating is one thing debts and capital is another um okay jeie may be aware that there's a Kathy online uh Kathy would you like uh to identify yourself if you have any questions or anything we can help you with okay we try back up before the meeting ends okay so that was that um what's the abatement for 57 Main Street is actually I'm gonna reprove myself on that okay oh okay um explanation you can explain it J so they did an estimated read which was much higher than any other the previous um so I printed out the bills the last imported okay um so the quarter in question uh said that he used 49,000 and his average is 36 36 okay um so I okay we don't have an exact money amount but I'll make a motion to adjust the billing quarter to reflect um 36,000 gallons for that particular quarter and you could the amount can be determined I'll fill that out my email okay so that was a motion I'll second it but yeah second that question on the motion 36 versus 49 is that correct okay you have 13 13,000 okay make make sure it's okay all in favor I and one recusal it's important that you put that bill down and recus himself standard operating yes uh update from superintendent all right um so I briefly mentioned before we get going uh about cdm's issues I'll bring that up in cyle but I just want to start off with some recent emergencies we had within the department uh they were all handled we did not have any overflows but we had a situation at Boundary Street Pump Station that the wires had been spliced previously to put in some new pumps and the splies went bad short circuit at the station took out a a bre main breaker coming into the station when the emergency power came on the secondary break when the station tripped we had no idea that there was no power because the generator was running so when when that power didn't travel to the stick that reads level in the station it didn't tell the pumps to come up because it couldn't tell it was in high level so luckily one of the neighbors called and recognized that the generator was running even though they had power on at their house so we went down and discovered that both Breakers were tripped uh one of them just would reset so we had a breaker replace the following morning uh that night we're able to at least get one breaker going get the station pumped down so as a result we put in um an emergency float in there so even if all the power goes out again this float will trip the telephone system to calls station so we have two more stations that are wired similarly there's some sister stations or twins in town that we're going to just go through and check the same thing but we haven't gotten that far yet we we are you going to automatically put in another sensor yes at these other two stations the first first was that Main Street this one was uh Boundary Street Boundary Street which is a further station towards the Plymouth line yeah ready to cross over that's not really down the street a lot worse if if it wasn't address by the morning it would have been coming up I mean in terms of gr to that one it's more lower lower volumes yeah I was thinking when you told me that originally that been down like a river oh yeah oh yeah it would have taken long to it would have been a couple hours uh not a good so yeah then um the other day we had a meeting with d and it was determined that some of the emergency um spare pumps that we wanted to purchase as part of the upgrade to the plant were denied um due to some time restraints close out the contract we couldn't get them in on time um they wanted stuff that was just specific to the plant and even had a problem with some of our Maran drive replacement pumps not being part of the plant itself so the discussion got a little heated but essentially in the end uh with time running out we're in the ninth inning right now that we don't have time to order any of these components even if they were to allow us and how much do you have a ballp of what that would have cost that would have saved us the original um list of equipment that we were hoping to put on that contract was 222,00 in pumps and then there was is the equipment to do some mowing it's okay they did B P thing 326 I want to say in total $326,000 that's too bad who it Michelle Higgins was online was a zoom srf Rost if that's where Michelle is out of um I'm not sure where her office that's um so through the discussion we eventually got them to say okay for the Maran Drive Pump Station but by the time the call had ended and they discussed that we had to have all our closing documents everything in from CDM by the 20th pretty much cut us off at that point she was in yes yeah um she was insisting because we weren't going through the general contractor that we would have to get rebids for each item get those processed through the normal process there's certainly not enough time to do all that and we didn't know that until that was out yes CDM had addressed this with d back in August asked again in September uh followed up with multiple emails and finally had to go to Michelle Higgins to to get some information because down the chain from her I think moving along Tom Tom was it leading that on cdm's I'll to talk to do something if it was something legitimate and then we had not dro the ball or something that's a different story this is not I mean I was tracking this but we doing the right thing I getting more and more ticked off though we weren't get responses in and we just got this extension fortunately for other things and and part of it was to hopefully wrap up some of this stuff so uh based on that um recently we've had three pumps failing in the last six months um may have Riverside Drive Marian Drive actually had two pumps already failing it in two and a half years we had one fail the other day so we're we're in a situation that we need emergency pums so what I've done is I've gone Hadad and taken list that I intended on um trying to tie into our existing contract and I'll show you with sheet so what what this sheet is was the original request that we had uh proposed to bring in for pumps and some of them are duplicates so uh say item two if you look on the left-hand column was 15 horsepower pumps if we were ordering two of them they were 24,000 piece which at 49,679 contract I've looked at an alternate solution to try and get some of these pumps so where we're having failures on a fairly regular basis some of them are original pumps that are in there some of them are just freak accidents or incidents that happened pretty short term so um item number one and two we have these pumps in the basement they were rebuilt in 2017 they haven't been put in service but they've sat there for nearly seven years so the seals on them probably need to be replaced so I'm looking at essentually taking the first two items sending them out get them rebuilt motors are probably fine probably just needs the rubber seals and here replaced possibly some bearings so I've gone through and try to U eliminate some of the instead of 222,000 coming out of operating budget I've gotten this reduced down to somewhere around 22 to $32,000 to bring in spare pumps um all the big horsepower pumps just need rebuild okay all the small horsepower pumps which are only say $7500 or less than one two three four of those so um that's kind of what I'm looking at is trying to at least get them in housee so we'll put to spare right now if a pump were to go down now we have to wait anywhere from 3 weeks or better to uh to get a pump in so we're running a station with one pump no backup and every one of these stations is pretty close to or on a compl body water yeah it's pretty critical right so um what I'm looking to do is take some of our article money that we've been using for our upgrade and assessment of the uh collection system system where this is part of the collection system and bring in some of these pumps on that and what I looked at was on the article that we set aside for that in the last town meeting we set aside 93,676 on the collection system assessment okay yeah and we've used somewhere around $9,000 so somewhere in the range of 80,000 we have somewhere in the range of $80,000 that we could easily absorb some of these pumps with so I just wanted to at least kind of bring that to the commission's attention uh that's very good and get your blessing the money is where sitting in so on the town meeting um last year we voted to take uh sum of 93,676 to be used for collection system Inspection Cleaning repair uh supp filter remediation analysis design upgrades and any unforeseen expenses needed to operate the wastewater treatment plant and that the board of sour Commissioners can be authorized to take any action to carry out these expenditures or take any other actions relative there to this money came from free cash uh free cash free cash of our yes um yeah so that's what I've been using to do the Air Relief valves and some of the other projects we've been working at you know in house so um yeah I think that's a good solution to bring things in yeah definitely now would the same vendor do all these pumps so what I'd like to do is get pricing on each one of them what I found the other day was I was looking for a pump for Boundary Street the one that had the wire splicing issue we thought the pump was no good so I went and ordered an emergency situation ordered a pump in when I got pricing for that particular pump I went to two different vendors one was $8,300 the next one was $1,586 same so each one of these I intend on getting three prices on it and my due diligence somebody's going to vot to pay for it yeah you know these pumps are made in China um they are they so what kind of pumps I gu the two that are in the basement that would need rebuilding are flight pumps okay the other ones what we've been doing is converting over to a surumi pump and I think they're Chinese or Japanese or some variation but they're great with all the stuff that people are flushing down their toilets and I knew that would be the answer close to the answer but then we just think about the tariffs add 20% all us 23% soon yeah so if I can get an order in ASAP yeah mean is it is it more defense for you yeah yeah yeah yeah good point um so that was going through my list yet good so you have a blessing okay I don't think we need to take a form vote do the only I would add is great great analysis but is there is there your position is is it worth to buy another is there not is there other used pumps rebuilt pumps off the shelf that might be available as well that these kind of costs they might you're asking if the rebuilt ones bu off the shelf um remanufactured refurbished refurbished that I don't know of um it might be a cost savings on the bigger horsepower pumps you get to some of the smaller horsepower pumps um when we get to surumi they're really reasonably priced and to say that they might be in there for 20 years as new I feel like the value of it might be better go one uh the rebuilt pumps are flight pumps which are very expensive they're crazy money but they're already rebuilt all it should need is a couple seals and parings and so ones in the basement yeah I'm just thinking if you had if you talking to is there any manufacturer there has them already rebuilt off the shelf there not a oh I see what you not a month like a rem already already yeah yeah we'll give you this give us another one there that's a good question I can I Market to refurbish re I know there's a place in that does that okay flight red bunch of the pumps that's what they do that's all they do in yeah okay so you might be able to get them without waiting right right here this one it's like a corge you right right yep like we do with our E1 pumps yeah definitely look in uh three item four oh Town report by I believe it's the 17th of January Kathleen in the selection office is looking to have our annual Town reports sent to it and I made a copy the is it in your P your package yep so it's not complete so if there's anything you want to take a look at and read over the next few days and give me any input if there's anything you want to add or take off um the items in red the red numbers those are the current updated numbers for this year so we process a total of1 12,44 6,256 gallons of waste water and that average is 329,000 th000 yeah yeah um some of that lately is we've been really bumping up accepted intake so that that's definitely been increasing um anyway if we want to follow the same format which we did last year Brian second paragraph with a three Asis calcul that was you in terms of calculating the nitrogen so whatever you're going to need for numbers for me I can get you whatever so last last year was I looking at the way4 mil we went up to 120 so did I pencil that in yeah so4 here I'm we to 12 and the million 6 million that's um almost 6 million it's almost it's 5% increase well right 6 million out 120 114 6 million 5.2% increase how much 5.2% wow that's very good substantial yeah I would say a lot of that is probably the mall getting filled up the apartments and bont's been Genera a lot of usage we don't have any known II problems not not at the threshold that they need to be addressed because we had that study done a few years ago the the and the reason that 5% that's without having a lot of new connections we have some but majority yeah bet which is revenue yes we have so yeah like I said there's anything you wanna shut up no we're on the same page if there's anything you want to add to that I'd like to get that to sometime in the beginning of next week so certainly if there's any add or change we can put that in um I did put in some of the projects that we did through 20124 I won't tie you guys up with all that stuff yeah you have very productive year very very good year but a lot done for um and unfortunately being down a man right some of it in in emergency situations which is never good we good crew but you responded tremendously so um then it brings me to my last item which is projects completed in 2024 and you guys can all just keep a list of that just so you kind of get a sense of what we did this year and what we plan on doing next year so at uh Jones River Pump Station we added a vfd motor starter by pass which um really is going to help us out in emergency situation that we'll be able to actually turn the pumps on if the vfps failed we didn't have that ability so to Brian's point in a couple hours we couldn't get that station started we'd have an overflow so that was a pretty critical update this year uh replacement of failed pumps at may have Riverside Drive at Maran Drive Replacements of air Elite BS at linksway Summer Street Town Center Pump Station and Prospect Street those were all original equipment from 24 years ago amaz lasted that long yeah I'm just gu one of them happened to fall off the day we went in the Mano was another story in itself but um corrosion assessment was done on on our Force Mains our two significant Force Mains the Jones River Pump Station and the rocky Nook Pump Station and all results from that look like we're in pretty good shape um something we wanted to get ahead of just to be aware that things hadn't corroded and I guess it looks like we're good we also did Town centers um B Main and Bradford streets Force Mak job descriptions were updated this year for all the guys and Genie biof filters were based which need to be done every two to three years joined a chemical Co-op reducing pricing on chemical needs we've actually reduced our chemical cost significantly oh good we now get three totes for the price of what we've been paying for two wow yeah it's been huge maning competition does yeah we're going to need that as prices start going up that's good uh the punch list for the uh plant upgrade was complete everything's going to hopefully close out this month with all that alone and everything leeching Fields basically essentially complete at this point so our goals for 2025 as concentrating on preventive preventative maintenance and emergency competiveness so with all the surprises we've had lately Ely it has gotten so obvious to me that that's our number one concern is just preventative maintenance and being ready for these emergencies that are popping up and they seem to pop up almost weekly so U we're going to continue our assessment and repairs to the pump stations what are spare pumps for the pump stations based on our discussion earlier we're going to set an emergency notification float at the two additional stations that don't have that power loss message to call out so we'll have it set up kind of like Boundary Street that if all else fails at least the telephone will call us and tell us uh septage pits are probably going to get done this this spring we're GNA have to clean those out every two years or so done and then a permit for a discharge permit expires in August of 2025 that was quick so yeah so they require as slow as it seems things happen on that end um they want six six months notice to start working on it so yeah you want to um you have to Pro submitting something six months ahead yeah so I'm gonna um next week open that discussion back up with CDM and AD down for us okay um and then and on that point to the extent I can help Okay since I write them all the time perfect perfect just you know while I'm here to help if you want to take charge of it all it right just there's anything you know just let C know okay it shouldn't be a lot but you know I'll CC you on the email this should be this should be straightforward but I'm getting nervous yeah Staffing seems to be challenging over there get nervous for it's not just this group it's the whole thing and the reaction is um we have moratorium on hiring had it for a while and we're looking work we're going to go we're going to go that's the union of in fact it drives me so in the last item on my uh my list of things to work on is replace generator radiators so we've had we have 16 generators around town and two radiators have already failed um one was an emergency situation that we also dealt with but um I want to get ahead of this too so just trying to prioritize some of my things but this is a this is what I want to work on as well and we'll do that all in I think this is perfect and I just would add because we're doing what we're trying to do which is increase the flad get as many people hooked up in the next six or eight months the wear and tear and all these pumps that have been in there if they haven't been rebuilt what was going to go up yeah and when you set you're at when you're at 98% or whatever then you that going you know it just this is exactly the way to go I I wouldn't be surprised that some of these pumps the flones that were originally designed may be exceeding because of just how things are coming in so a kind of an calculus there that you might want to look at go back to the original design drawings what was what was this Pump Station rated for gallons per day kind of thing what's the pump is it rated crop properly is it not we 25 years in so you can design work that was done 25 years ago was great obviously we have yeah you know where things are moving you know nothing's fixed exactly the way you designed it so there may be more stuff I mean look at the N how many people yeah the whole n changed there a lot more FL May was anticipated yeah so that you may need another you may rund it we done made too big a pump so whatever they're not running they're not running you know they're running two or three hours and wrestling they may be R six hours now you whatever that you know whatever that is right yeah so yeah then I think um you we can look at this going forward just Department goals I just let that blank if there's anything you guys want to kind of discuss and talk about but I know you know we're going to be meeting with Kathleen and finance next week to go over some things just to kind of button that up but um you know going down the road we're obviously have and Brian's been spearheading some discussions with different IES in terms of shortfalls for debt on leaching Fields um so those things are things that we'll have to address as a department sooner than later but I didn't want to get into that end necessarily but just kind of get it turning it okay by the end of the month that those kind of details are be more more available you it's a combination of what you're doing with Trine what we're doing with this committee anybody on the same page and then most leion field debts come due July and January yeah of 20 526 and I think we we briefly I think it was the last meeting discussed the July payment is approximately 94,000 that we take that out of an article money or free cash or whatever and then because we still have to build for the betterment for the leeching fields depending on your outcome and that will give us time to fill whoever to pay the January 26 Deb payment yep so everyone's on the same page yeah and we should be able to gather quite a bit of information I think over the next month or so to help determine which path we're going that that's very good thank you website ideas so I wanted to do like a weekly kind of um update like fun facts and pitches um and if you guys wanted to send me some like fun backs that would be interesting for people to look at on the website I want to start updating the website like every two weeks okay with information we'll find some fun facts about waste water yeah we one thing I'd like to add the is interested in giving guided tours of the Ser Tre plan good idea and give us the time so we can schedule it not be bothering you every time you know putting together some we'd love to show you our facility and what $65 million bought that always gets them I will put that out there tomorrow very good and we schedu it and then this includes all Town officials elected and or appointed who need to see this and I know Paul Gallagher is bringing like the Girl Scouts in on Monday um so maybe if we could do something with like the Girl Scouts the Boy Scouts or you know different groups yeah men the only thing what I'm thinking about it is the Sewer Commission is working with the Cil Regional High School to develop a training program starting with the Civil Lake students Waste Water treatment operator career cast just you know those little things like that with with that in my bra hopefully soon we'll be moving Dave Wilson is working out of classification right now he's technically in a la position working out of classification once he moves into that position it should have at some point labor position graduation time maybe yeah that be I'm going to send you all I got a new inate watertion code L letter today I'm going to send it to markon who's my contct at school comme yeah to all you and and I think are all of us all staff working operators so they of new no so I put that in my budget for next year to take care of their membership get you know do the operator challenge type stuff and you know get people up to the it comes up in next two weeks it's the the annual meeting of New England Interstate water pollution I mean lot it's a different one where these guys would go it's a big deal oh good okay it's like you know three or 4 thousand people every year just from New England it's a very professional technical conference presented several times papers and things the operator group with Iran I used to go there and they have just a really good all of you should go I mean it's just a watch want to see how much stuff's going on it's a great trade show you meet different Engineers different people at Supply pumps all different people in the industry but you also have these little breakout sessions for different seminars that you can earn your tchs so if you want to learn about pum or collection system you know skater systems there all different you know things that you can whatever interest you don't get a TCH or two or three depending on very so it's good they have an operat day that it's mostly operated they go and there's other days that there's more engineering and student based yeah it's a great can you ever get enough education on this type of stuff that's for sure yeah these guys haven't seen anything outside of Kingston wastewater treatment plant yeah so all kind of work their way up didn't get the explosion things talking to another operator was working on a pump that had a problem that I had that problem then they stopped talking think oh we just saved $1,000 yeah and you know what was your solution you keep getting Rags at this one station what do you do well we change over to salumi thumb so are you happy with it not well you find a different variation that you know contractor who's quicker to respond than someone you might have already yes that's good okay let's go to 94 Main Street the buyback program um it's Kathy from realy plus okay um so work oh is that okay so basically what it is is um the property at 94 Main Street has more capacity than a potential buyer is interested in if I'm saying this right and they would like to sell back their capacity to the to the Sewer depart to waste waterer Department we do have a uh sewer capacity purchase program that we implemented years ago when there was a we didn't have enough sewer capacity what we were trying to do is it was basically but it's the our rules and regulations limited to vacant parcel are a project for which a vment or connection fee has been assessed but has not been utilized in other words for a project if the particular project asks for I'm making it up 25 eius but they only get permitted for 20 then we would readjust the uh their allocation um other than that it's for vacant pels it was basic Ally undeveloped lots that were not buildable and the um with a few Property Owners sold back their capacity and we sold it to somebody looking for sewer capacity um right now we don't have a um lack of sewer capacity and to we'd have to update our rules and regulations to accommodate this type of request um and we' also have to take into consideration that if we did um alleviate them of the additional capacity that they have we still have a debt to pay so our debt that we pay each year is based on the number of betterments um that have already been assessed so if we start taking back betterments we're reducing our revenue for debt to pay debt because it's not like we have somebody waiting in line to buy it because we have capacity at the plant right now we can sell to somebody it's not like the situation we were in years ago when yeah you sold it back to us and somebody else immediately bought it so we would be getting debt we would be taking back capacity and it would be sitting there no getting that Revenue back and if I calculated this right they've already paid a certain amount which is in bank account it's not going back this would be something like5 or $6,000 right and they owe 6,17 how long how long have they had this it's uh the beginning yeah since day one is that only a couple years phase one right 22 it was two two betterments it was 44,000 right four better yeah 88,000 right it's like it's like how year left uh it's a 30-year loan so five years give or take phase one is 30 years there's nothing in there's no way that they could sell that to a neighbor or something right there we don't have have lot they don't have lot to do that is this the BFW building itself the the American leg so they I mean American leg so they're just going to convert to a presidential is that the idea apparently yeah and we didn't get into people we had any type of purchase like this come through the sewer department because we were afraid that there'd be a at the time when there was no capacity a bidding law gotta this way we managed the better I I get you now capacity they're holding on to something that they don't need and they can't utilize obviously but I don't I don't don't see how that was part of my other question is that they've actually got they paid for this capacity they own it whether they want to admit that or not they actually have four eius right of which corre have to paid for right and if something changes and they need they need back they have to pay a higher price for I I'm sorry can I have a will I have a time time to speak yes we tried at the beginning go ahead did you just identify yourself for the record yeah Kathy Basi um realy plus I'm representing the Legion in the sale of the property and right now we we have a buyer who's interested in purchasing a property and he wants to do a two family he thinks he can do that he's spoken to the powers that be over in planning and in um the building department he wants to have four we have right now like you said Elaine we have four our our are use um and we want to sell back two to the time I know we have these eus at for three bedrooms this gentleman will have to he wants a four he wants to do two units with four bedrooms so he'll probably have to buy back from you or two of the two of the eus and I'm probably not saying that right but long story short you know the legion has been there forever we we can't sell the property for any other of the reasons because of the way the it's been District um it's now the 3A DD district and there's a lot of um uses that can't go into that site but long story short the money from the sale of this property is going to go back to the town for scholarships for veterans children who live in the town so hopefully you can consider letting us you know sell back two of these which would I think I hope cut what they owe in half I think they owe 6,100 and if they sell them back I don't know if it's it'll be $3,000 that they'll be looking at to pay off so I just want to Mak sense to you yeah 61,000 $ 6,147 is what they owe right but that doesn't again that does not represent an eru an eru is in this particular case is 22,000 you're saying that they want to buy they don't need they don't need two that means 22,000 * 2 is 44,000 is really what comparing apples and apples that we need to buy I didn't even know what they would be what the dollar amount would be for you guys for them to um and one one of the reasons why I'm sitting here how how how does that work if they well that's it we don't have a mechanism to buy back capacity from a uh existing property with a with a building on it and just and what our what we have is the owner of that facility has paid all of 88,000 minus 6,000 so it's already been paid to us and used and expended something like um $8,200 has been already put into our account and we can't pay that back what what dollar amount were you looking for for us to to buy it back $6,300 no no no I didn't I didn't know how what the computation would be I know they owe 61476 right I don't know how how much they would get if they if they if you buy back two of them at the original price un for better so I mean is that what you're looking for if we bought them back we paying you what the original price was for them is that your intent I I'm sorry I couldn't hear you if we were to buy two of them back just I'm just thinking of the dollar amount you would be wanting back what the original betterment fee was well what I was hoping was if if they owe the town $6,185 and they'd pay that when they sold the property if you could reduce the amount that they owed back to you the property was sold that the the total debt would be the 6,000 to release the benef correct so is that what you're looking for in this particular case is for us to absorb the 6,000 take those two back no no I'm looking to see whether that we know we have to we know we owe the town you know $6,185 which we would hoping for whatever the buyback would be if it's $1,000 or $2,000 we hope that that would reduce what we owe the time did that make any sense yeah yeah I know I I understand that I mean we who to buy them back for for 6,000 bucks and put them back in our our future sale but yeah but not go back to the original price and pay what the original price would have been for the Ben when they started to so let's taking that the next step and if we this is for discussion not we makeing decision if we um as the Sewer Commission authorize the balance C and you relinquish to us two vs your client would be happy so if we we relinquish 6,100 whatever it is and then you relinquish to us two betterments much of which has already been paid for in the past 20 years but correct right like you said there's five years left to go on the loan so that would be reduced in to go to zero but you would also release to us two betterments that have already been purchased right we we're just looking to reduce the out of-pocket expenses for the legion when they walk away from the sale that's a very specific unique kind of thing and now right it it we just need to find Revenue to pay for that debt that we've alleviated and it's $6,000 not and the potential buyer doesn't want to pay the $6,000 of that capacity no he will not I mean from a point of view financially we could buy buy them back to 6,000 sell them for 22,000 piece in the future it would behoove us to do that I guess but we had plenty of capacity mod I understand that um in from the other point of view if I was going to buy it I'd want to keep it because in the future I might be able to do something different than if the zoning changes but it's already paid for it yeah yeah I'm sorry go ahead no we had that conversation with the buy the problem is the legion has the parking lot for the legion is not owned by the legion I don't know if you're familiar with with a site at all yeah yeah I assumed it was but that makes a big difference so we're really there's really not much we can do with that building and because there's no parking in the back of the Legion it's all on the side so and I some of the uses are very restrictive for what we can do with it and sell it for now the lot's a lot smaller excuse me now the lot is a lot smaller oh yeah lot lot smaller and you know it's it's a it's on a bad Corner a lot of people don't want to be right on the Main Street if they want to rehab a house so um is it not I should was just going be like a tear down to reconfigure our new house two it would be a tear down I think we should take that under advising very I'm glad we had this discussion it changes the dynamic a lot and I just want to for clarification they want to put in two units with four bedrooms each correct he wants to make a two family with four bedrooms each okay so just doing a quick math for discussion not no um four eus at 330 gallons a piece is 1320 gallons four four bedrooms in two units is 880 gallons subtract the two from a flow perspective we're talking 440 units which isn't two eus to begin with because they've got 1320 now they would need 880 for their project so the differen is 440 so we're really not giving back two we get you it be one and a half that they really we getting back but had 6,000 as opposed to I wasn't on Bo I'd buy it I can't but that's you can buy you can buy additional capacity now if you want I know but not at that price I mean I understand that but it's it's so what do we want to I don't know which way to go on that because we have a buyback Pro program in our rules and regulations that's on our website it's not on the front page website and it it says vacant properties so I mean we can mull it over and put it on the agenda for our next meeting which which particular this is not vacant right it's page 17 it's yeah I'm looking at that right now the last sentence it says um May purchase to a capacitor has been previously allocated to a vacant parcel what why did they purchase that much to begin with based probably on capacity and the fact that yeah right function the function all a exactly looking at 3.44 3.5 3.5 capacity purchase program that's right when we discuss and if you want to go through the program and see if it it fits I mean and I think this is yeah I think we need to take this in advis I think that we don't have any mechanism for them to transfer those to other private party correct okay and based on that current because I conversation about the yes because we wanted to control it otherwise it was it was Willy Milly intelligent people would be trading property back and forth right and we wouldn't have a clue is looking right in this particular case I think you can control the whole thing that's the good news yeah that's that's what our current policy is everything needs to let's look at this a little bit more I think is there what is the timeline for the sale is this for a decision from us I mean well we're going to make the the purchase and sale contingent on him getting his building permit so he's still you know we're hoping he'll close you know mid-march going through the process of getting a building permit but we we'd like to know whether or not I mean obviously you have to discuss this we just want to know if if it's feasible for us to get some some break on on that $6,100 because the actual person entities is going to be paying this would be the leg Hall itself right the legion right the legion not the new owner right no the new owner is not going to we asked if they assume it and he doesn't want to so um you know the legions just sitting there vacant and it's it's a shame but this is you're just trying to get every penny out of the seal right because they're going to donate it down the road if we put this in our next meeting two weeks that won't put you in any significant Jeopardy or anything they just KCK it around and whenever we're going to change regulations in two weeks right but I think no that's I I understand we have time I just wanted to get some ansers you know before we actually signed a document but if he can't get a building permit anyways it you know we still have we we'd still want to um have you buy back something just to because the building right now it there's there's no use the the only use for that building at this point we don't have a parking lot it can't be a bar can't be a restaurant it can't be an office building the only thing is is could be a single family home and if that's the case we really don't need you know all these e us because whatever whatever decision we come up with this on this particular piece of property carries to every other piece of property that we deal with so right we have to be careful how we we handle it because we also we do have a property that's in this similar situation which is on hland Lane um Hillside Hill Hilltop yep they have eius based on it being a function hall exactly y there's it is now being used as a residential property with one owner and that those better been eus haven't been um adjusted for the count use okay so yeah we have to come up with some sort have to think Hillside Club yeah has he approached you to as but I believe he asked in passing and was told that it you know at the time I don't remember specifically I don't even know if he came to us but um again it's it's debt that we still need to pay right and in his particular case if you if he were to pass it on to someone else they they they may want that those that Flo capacity because it's a pretty good Siz piece of proper yeah they have a they have a fantastic site over there I mean you know the town didn't you guys take it back or took back some land and then it's it's a private owner that purchased it yeah it's his man Town yeah I know who bought it but anyways um their their situation is much different than ours exactly we're stuck on that lot you know we can't do anything with it there's no room there's nothing on that lot I think just for going forward I think my gu my own sens of this is we aren't going to entertain paying back anything that was already been paid into our right right that's I agree and then if we do have um a buy back we we we at the very minimum whatever that cash is we get one or more vits that it represents in payment for our records something like that to go out and use it later if just throw this out there if we were to buy that back for that amount of money and get that flow back in in the future one our towns or B field or something for the municipal use only that flow and then that would be covered you know you know what I mean so it's like someone they need to put an addition on they need that more flow for that particular project yeah you know the Council on Aging or something that had to do with the town and we could donate that to them as a board I don't I don't know how that works but that's I'd rather sell for 22,000 huh I'd rather sell it for 22 Grand yeah yeah yes exactly you know I understand yeah table income income every dollar in can we table it for now we'll put it on the agenda for January 21st and if anybody has any any questions between now and then let Genie know and we can figure them out so we can have a honest discussion on this 21st would wi all right good thanks thank you okay see you the 21st all right thank you saying 4 4:30 still yep all right excellent all right thank you Elaine you're welcome uh the last thing we have on the agenda is an escro account I believe everybody saw the emails going back and forth between methan and one of their subcontractors Frasier Frasier is in a uh dispute with M thuan on payment we've got a legal opinion which was forwarded on to everybody that we should set we should have funds available in case the town um needs to pay the subcontractor rather than um a through in construction so um the Tom was going to set up an Esco account we need to fund that account with funds so I think the only funds we currently have available would be from an article money um so H how much do we have an article ballpark 800,000 so it's that no it's separate s sorry okay so we got 66 241 300,000 that's another amount yep 300 um that's 550 550 370 920 and then the 93 we won't take the 93 676 into consideration because Dave was talking about that for his program so excluding that we have n n $920,000 in available article money to be put towards this esro account how much is it how much is it 2059 but that's only only ask growing why the money still exists someplace else to pay it though is it um it's it's a dispute between contractor subcontractor okay um the every thing is leaning towards the fact that it is specifically between the contractor and the subcontractor but to be air on the side of caution um legal council believes we should be prepared to pay that if need be contractor has the that amount of money that they ow sometime yes and that fails for some reason we go bankrupt then we obligated to right it's for services rendered and there's a dispute on how much is owed okay I got you so by putting it into escrow um we're covered in case we are ultimately responsible for paying but the opinion is we're not methan cons mean's attorneys don't believe that um it goes as far as us that it should be staying with them and legal council is is going through all our contracts with the the Bine to home but on the surface very high level they don't believe that we're involved but again to be on the safe side to put an esort CDM review this also supports the situation that Al just mentioned so multiple levels of legal interpretation in experience suggest we have no liability but this like no upon this caution right so we just take a vote to um fund the escrow account with a money available money in the article and the Articles and it'll sit there until this is all resolved and then we'll go back into then we can yeah because this isn't a town meeting vote it's just us using I'm okay with it it's it's it's going to be there whether we es go it or not because right next year right so that'll reduce our 920 down to motion I'll make the motion to put in Esco the amount required to cover the dispute between meth and the subcontractor as a placeold yeah I guess as a as a emergency placeholder to the town end up having any liability which is unanticipated or unexpected at this time I'll second all in favor elain I bill Watson I I that's all I have one of them was just going on I was going to add it interrup in the leing field is the RO control issue that that you've seen kind of temporar fixing that but one of the things that I want to do with they probably ground's frozen solid I Tri to go up there last weekend when I was sick just to get out of the house and I Grove up and there was no way I'm walking on the walking around but um I know there's a lot more erosion in the back when the steeper slow oh okay and with this ground Frozen like this my worst fear the ground gets frozen it gets once it gets down four or five inches and then then we start getting it the warmer weather for a short period of time the top pinch THS out you got ice here so it's pment soft as muy baby poop rains on it gone oh that's why I wanted to get as many roots in there as we could before but did not happen and I haven't been back to just for the rain we did have that road in front I'm sure it's that way in the back it's going to get worse and I made that point in the email back but this we're going to be dealing with this in the May March April okay much louder but that's going to be an issue just keep it up there and putting ha BS really I mean it's already mulch down with this but once it starts get in those channels they're going to fix the ones in front that with some Stone the ones in back trying to drive over this Stu again if it's dos out even a tiny bit driving over it you just ruin any kind of vegetation that was going to go it's very exactly what I was trying to avoid and but you a lot of things we get the Dr we delay um just that's a really it's going to get messy sometimes you can get back there py Bild and put it in a mini retention area and then it doesn't flow as fast and it backs it up and stops it well that's my point is that we need to watch it now so that if we see those trenches then we can maybe go in there but bringing Stone in to fix a all it does is make the water go around and it starts do trenches on the side of the stone you're just chasing it we got to look at it as soon as it starts to happen really get on it and it's a contractor's responsibility it's not us they we made sure that's they want to put the stuff down the way they did late no that's their problem so um but I just don't want to get out of control and the other thing is that I owe you I've been at the DPW meeting just give you a quick sense I've been there been two meetings one was kind of just an introduction of what we're trying to do what they're trying to do second was on more focus on things um there is a there's a rush there's there's a need to put something before wage and personnel and get it approved like now which is really driving some of the urgency I think the discussions we're having is more why are we doing this why is it being rushed what is an alternative what there's a lot of questions about why thinking a little bit more I've pointed out that some of the reasons that they're driving the bus is not having to do with necessarily VW but other communication issues management issues throwing out some ideas about how to deal with that I will say that an idea put out kind I have a little traction which is why don't we do this maybe in two steps and my logic of this is that we are done with our Capital Investments a lot of departments done with capital Investments to this point they represent the town we both have Enterprise accounts maybe we do an interim of a sewer Water Commission with a couple steps just as a again for discussion let's not just jump into something that let's solve the other problems first and let's figure those problems out because maybe if we solve the problems of communication and whatever that will solve the problem yeah but if we are going to go forward one of my you you look at Bon has a lot of su they don't have they have a DPW too maybe you have a DPW a lot of suiss then they get ABB later as things going part of what's going on is like we I think and I think Water Commission mentioned there is a lot of work together things like plowing though coming up with having staff under Sewer Commission St for them being able to do plowing um you I mentioned the plowing problem is a universal problem it's not just the town of Kingston it's just everywhere and having our guys who are on 2 s having to be put into a position on from a union point of view and having to do that job I I'd like to think about that a lot longer and harder than just doing me too well I can tell you the discussions that I've had in the past with the previous Highway superintendent who literally wanted to um put something on town meeting floor to make Wastewater and water plow draft it it came down to we speaking again for just Wastewater they have their own operation to run if there's a snowstorm going on that needs to be plowed they need to manage pump stations that they there's no guarantee if this assigned a rout that they're ever going to get to that rout because we want all hands on deck at the plants they they sleep at the plant sometimes so to to I guess I'm saying to even entertain came the thought of they wouldn't ask another department so let's say I'm making it this is Library the library even the police if they wouldn't ask the police a fire had to go plowing if they're not doing anything because at the least you're on call at the leas and I we've had the discussion in the past and I think it we strongly needs to be considered that they're not sitting around doing nothing in even and a snowstorm they're on call they're waiting for something and they have their own operation to manage that's 247 365 days a year that we've already determined other than police and fire is the only other department in town that is 247365 and that's then not those points were brought up on for discussion and again I I look at it from well maybe we could do that but there's a bigger problem here it's like we're mixing two differents and and I hate rushing anyways and um but we're going to have continue discussions on this and see what happens um again have it at a professional level and what we yeah we're not that big of municipality that's what our Town Administrator is is he's the one that oversees all the Departments and communicates with them so they can communicate with each other so historically we've taken a lay labor and offered the laborer to the highway department to do plowing but only in the hours that are off hours for us so you know Monday through Friday 7 to 3:30 we're all on Deck yeah but if there's a storm that goes through the night we've given up the labor in the past we don't have a laborer right now so we don't even have the ability to to put someone in that position these dets details and things like that you know we need to hatch them out and and not do something Qui the other point that came up and I was very pleased to hear support on it back in the day when this came up 20 years ago you know this is why slap me in the face I'm going say it again we sat up an Enterprise account as soon as we had two years with an income the town wanted to steal it they did they took okay and that went back and forth that's illegal that got it worked out later but it's I've seen it now in the last three town meetings where is an well I we want that money well that's why I think we got to establish what we're doing and why the Enterprise account has to work that way so that you're not taking not only Personnel but money out of our account we have to set ourselves up and we are trying to do that to be self-sufficient so when we had to go buy those something to start there we're not taking out of free cash that somebody else's money it's already in our bank account it's exactly for that reason well Ian we're already paying for time Services yeah now we're paying almost $350,000 now for services that the town's providing which I have a discussion every year about to get it lower because yeah that's a lot of money right right it goes back to the point about what problem we trying to solve we find we got to find better ways to get people to pay them higher make it affordable pay them on time I mean this is stat this is the state start of this problem they pay them six months after they finished working you know yeah and uh now they pay the pipe of so but you know again it's that's not to blame the town or anything it's just that it's that's a bigger problem it's not we're not going to solve it at time meeting and we're not going to Sol it by making the DPW necessary this that's where this discussion is going it's been very FAL it's been very interesting and people are learning from each other I think no decisions have been made but the one thing that I get rushing well and and the rushes to get a DPW um director or something in waging Personnel like super sorry well they're all I'm sorry I think Qui from what I from what I understand of this wage and Personnel pce is is that it doesn't mean that they're going to have the position filled but they're going to have a play seter in case the direction of right the committee decides to go that way they already have it in the W Personnel by that that's a a common approach the town meets has two meetings a year April in the spring and in the fall do can always because you're going to create a position without having the analysis done yet and you're just going to create a position based on what some unowns right that's why there more discussion with address that very expensive position they I know especially if Dave a superintendent Chris is a superintendent has the best now anyway and then the team that's under them working into them they're all great those two enties leave alone we share equipment and you should resources that's going on that's that's that is something nice about the town there is a lot of cooperation that I mean even geny Witnesses deal with the different departments on things um I find there's a a lot of interactions between departments that that are really helpful and I think that's come up multi times between me and Rober representing s um again it goes back to without getting into too much detail um issues that can be solved differently on communication not this just thr management answer out there the second answer a question that could maybe solve more simply or more into with a a step by-step approach that doesn't overturn the entire way of working so I mean again it's been a professional good discussion I think it's going to keep going it be follow me somewhere the next couple weeks we only had two um last point I was supposed to me me with before we had people in the office the thing I don't know it's two get answer that two3 no C won't be back into the office until tomorrow we did send her an email posing the question to our which questions that's I didn't want to put you on a spot until I asked that question but as Jean's been putting together some things for me for this um presentation and I've been working with Kath working with Kathleen and she's been great I think the more we getting into this the more this things pop up one that popped up was when you look at the phase two mean phas two to me is the upgrade okay plan expansion okay and and it's the plan expansion to you I mean yeah it doesn't necessar include the four tank I'm not sure how that SS but the point I'm making is if you look at the spreadsheet the one3 two3 still showing up there Town's still paying so I think and I could be wrong maybe you have some input on it I think when you look at the betterments I think phase one and phase two is in reference to everything prior to the plant upgade grade yes there's always been references phase one and phase two phase two one C not what that sheet says well before the sheet goes anywhere let's review it am I am I I'm not missing the point right no it indicates from the town records that that's not the case this is news to me it's news to me too so should I bring it because there's certain contracts from the srf that are associated to each project and the groupings of those and shown on that debt schedule is what we consider phase one and phase two and the plan expansion line item is one line item that does not have any Town offset to it well this sheet that we got I mean again it's a big it's a question as soon as I started looking wait a minute wait a minute you I talk about it and it clearly seems to state that the tax levy is still paying for the end of some of these contracts that go out to 2030 something that that would be what that would be what I call phase two which is down to kingsberry so yes so then we got to one way or the other this is got to get clarified very very it's terminology on what the phases are I believe we got to come up with that I don't want to walk into a meeting without knowing right that right oh we're talking $400,000 not not Che a little bit of money I thought I had it here I could bring it my feeling is no matter what we do because as far as the plants concerned the infrastructure it's all one thing under the old umbrella 2/3 13 everything that's even if we do something next year build double double our capacity still that's always should be all this comes back to the really fundamental question of this sub commmittee is to figure out what we actually owe bottom line what do we owe better we owe nothing on and I'm going oh I was under control for the time being capital is not right now the worst case that I thought we had was about 8 million 7 million which is the leing pr Lo right right I'm not sure that's necessarily the case it isn't because we own for the force tank right and then that that's what I get confused a little bit more what's the four tank where it's not the force tank really it's a partial part of the and the fourth tank is being covered now but should be covered by the user fees which G Point shouldn't be should agreed so again that's why I'm right so I want to know it's 8 million plus what's the plus that we're using on andm money to pay off if that bus is $5 million that's what I need to know sooner than later okay it's $8 million plus whats so and then we're going to start paying ourselves back what we have expended right it goes back to the onm account so that the onm account now is stable right so these guys aren't worried about that anymore we're not worried about anymore all worried about betterment and we know we have in the bank betterments up paid up to 2030 let's say Y and then all just who else are we going to get in there last point I'm sorry I take this no that's okay I did a quick after we met with Mr Lincoln and Mr on the linoln property thing I just want to we kind of came up quickly with a number of like three and a half $4 million yeah I think if you do a more detailed analysis of what is proposed it's more like 1.7 because they take two bedrooms and one bedroom average amount it comes out to more like 1.7 sorry but today he emailed me and there's been a change of the plan I don't have it yet but I can get yeah just keep me in the loop on that too yeah but just I just just want to make sure this is part of my presentation yeah is that it's a decision that we have to Grapple with as a SE commission but I want everybody else to know what it means right and it's an environmental question it's a neighborhood question it's a SE commission question it's a capital gains tax question it's bunch of questions rolled into one and we want their advice as commit to go back to their people and say yeah the Dilemma is it's not black and white guys right it kind of is but my opinion it's here it is and when we make the decision everyone's going to know what it is and why we made it not it was like some P out rear ends kind of thing that some people would say we do yeah which we don't so that's have you had your first meeting with them no no I I get delayed with this qu thought I would have all this because of some people who are vacation wise mhm and what I'm trying to do is can I get this number that's I can't do this without the number that's not Gan Pro it's my problem but get this package together we going to send it out that's going to be the first meeting we're do this I was trying to do it over holiday but yeah it's like this deck and I'm trying to get it down this and try to put it to a PowerPoint but that's going to be like the first meeting look at it and I think we're going to be able to get a meeting uh the second week the third week of January hopefully with the information of front presentation an hour and a half meeting get everybody on the same page and then see if we need the second week I've said all long I want to be done by the first of the first couple weeks of February yeah and if I need more time we need more time at least everyone's going to be on the education level to know where we're going and you've you were able to get all the members that I'm just I I'm I'm actually missing two people um I got call I got a call and I talk to Joyce today this she's had people talk to but right now verify and two two or three people left that talk directly okay they know they asked they asked to be involved oh okay good okay it's just a matter of following up and say this is where I'm going yeah good but that's it I mean there lot of stuff always okay so yes I would think after we meet Kathleen next Tuesday some of those numbers will be a little more yeah that's what I I just don't want to I want to respect make sure we're all her involvement seems to be you know it's very very positive with what we're doing some of the products of the jeans pick picked up you and me whatever it was not like oh that's not it was like you know there's a lot here going on something's not right right I don't believe that so and all we want is the end result the right one and we're up exactly we're closer than we have been in the past to get to some concrete numbers I think we set with the operating budget it's just again it goes back to the build what's being collected this we justed we can get all this money back and put it in his account oh yeah now this $1 million dwindling and it's being used for the right reason and then we can adjust every five years a little bit of a tweak not a big tweak because we uh free cash this year was four something 16 yeah we 46 yeah so drawing down the 920 by let's say 300,000 gives us 620 and then the 413 would bring us back up to a million so I'm comfortable with a million five yeah that you know leech and field payment coming up right all the other balls in here but we'll we'll know soon exactly yeah and then you know once we get that sorted out we can maybe look forward to what do we do per year 2% or all that stuff covered by different things and we can use cage to offset the cost like you've done St right well and that's it I mean at the end of the day we're a nonprofit and yes I mean routinely we've had anywhere between two and a half a million dollars of um excess funds each year typically from seage so that was always trending in the right direction always the goal something to be yeah the the golden egg golden egg and it and it has been until this hiccup so that's the hiccup we got to figure out but anyway I think we're going in the right direction the guys though they've been taking in a lot more seage and um think off the top of my head we're at like [Music] 280 thousand thousand and this is only right this isn't even this is the winter month is yeah we're on we're on track for a substantial increase and whatever the Ro so the ground water Tes a low it's not like the typical ground com up in the spring and things start faing yeah yeah okay I'll take a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn second all in favor I