##VIDEO ID:GpddzsmSYIg## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e she's not supposed to be online that's what I was asking about uh not yet it being a little after 7:00 on Wednesday November 20th 2024 four let's open the Kingston zoning Bo board of appeals can I get a second second all in favor all right very good all right uh first thing up it's uh Lane do you have the notice for three Grand View um I can read it off the agenda it's number two yeah so a public hearing will be held at Town Hall uh applicant Susan lson three Grand View AV seeking a special permit from the zoning board of appeals per section 4.2 pointa non-conforming structure use or lot subsection 4A in order to remove the roof on a non-conforming structure on a non-conforming lot and build a second floor living space um I'll make a motion to did she give us a date uh from last I talked it was January 15th I'll make a motion to continue this to January 15 15 at 7 7 p.m. p.m. can I get a second second all in favor you want me to open the next one not yet hold on um try to get genie on there what do we do just um continued trying to keep up the speed what you say January 15th say the 15th or the 25 15th be the 15th 15th yeah 15 all right go ahead trying to C please uh public hearing will be held at Town Hall 26 Evergreen Street on Wednesday November 1st 2023 at 7:05 to hear the petition of kushman farms LLC 33 kushman Drive Kingston Mass to request a comprehensive permit under Mass Jal laws chapter 40b to allow construction of three apartment buildings proposed to build 162 units of rental housing on approximately 11 acres of land located off Mar and Dr drive and kushman drive um in Kingston with an Associated Community Building Access Road parking stream Crossing utilities and storm water features on assorted Parcels Along Thomas Street um I'll make a motion to actually the hearing has been open so right I got a second either way second all in favor I um step right up give us I know got some new stuff it's got to be I'm guessing pretty new pretty change um also while you're heading up there I think we gonna need some more waivers from you guys for time constraints because I think I don't know what the time schedule is because it get get bumped out so much theid yeah yeah we're going to need a waiver from you moving it out to whatever we move it out to I'm going to need that in email or in written form so we can stamp it I see all right all right give us the rundown let's I'm pretty sure it's going to be something different from before so well I'm not going to spend a lot of time on a recap but originally we had2 units three buildings uh all stories each and we spent the last couple of months engineering that and we were about done and then um when I sat down and got looking at it and everything oh yes go the mic go to the mic give him a spare mic oh so the short story is I thought losing um probably the most ill-placed building which was right in the middle um and was cutting out a lot of buffer from Copper Beach was a better way to do it um I dropped 18 units so almost 20 units but these are now four story buildings so there's two four story buildings um and this whole middle building on the website which is course Copper Beach is gone uh which allowed us to keep the the wood in buffer um the grades it took us another month month and a half to to refigure all the grades given the uh ability to lose that middle building so it gave us a lot of advantages with um the it's the grades change a lot out here you know it's a lot of up and down so by losing that middle building it was we were able to drop these grades so I sent the surveyors out so the top of these buildings are lower than the tree line or right at the tree line I think it's like the tree line like 60 ft you know with the bigger trees um and all of the building Heights I think are on time so um parking all works you know we spend a lot of time polishing up storm water stuff like that so uh great soils out there you know groundwater is really low um we didn't do much up here on kushman you know a lot of that stayed the same a lot of the the road rates changed there's a Wetlands Crossing way up here um we can't file with con right now for notice of inent according to our attorney your Town Council should collaborate corroborate that um because you have to based on recent case law you you have to settle up with zba first you know and then whatever that is then you go to cont um the parking is like 1.8 you know ratio so I think you've seen a lot of that that was supposed to be 1.9 ratio is it 1.9 I thought so okay and we created we actually had the uh original amenities building was over on the copper beach side so it also allowed us to completely eliminate any construction on the on the west side of um you know on on the paper Street here so the ameni building is here now so we still intend on gating you know we we had early discussions with the town um originally we were going to do a a cut through but that you know I think that was not thought of real highly so now it's a gate here in a gate over here on Maran drive and I'm all residents will have fob and I haven't really worked out the details on that but it'll all be you know it's monitored it's a private way and we've since added a sidewalk here on kushman um because there's an existing sidewalk that heads up to the schools so I it was pretty seem to run a sidewalk down kushman and then up one side of uh Copper Beach what we don't have to do that but that's we thought it was a good idea how big is your buffer between the road that you're proposing in in Copper Beach that buffer which yeah on the property line there I um it's a good question I'd say 100 ft 100 ft 80 ft something like that you know it's it's thick Woods do your does your engineer know uh she might may can you hear us there you are at think it's a little over 100t I think it's about like 20 it kind of De um a little bit wall goes slightly towards side but I think it rages between 100 to um it's not on the plan right now but I did have some private chats you know at the last meeting you know it it didn't go off so had the opportunity to talk to a few people so one of the comments was can you put a fence up you know like chain link or maybe a black chain link or something like that so I i' be willing to do that although I don't own all of the parcels all the way down so if that were agreeable we'd have to put some of the fence on the Copper Beach res you don't have control of your of your property yet no but there are I do it's under pns agreement um but some of these Parcels are like small like tax title Parcels I've been told or like where you can't buy them I don't think the town owns it nobody's paid the taxes in 15 20 years yeah but you still have to have control of your property no I have the control of my property but there are some I'll call them snaggle tooths along the way um that are marked out highlighted in yellow that aren't part of the development but I guess how would you get a road over them well the those Parcels aren't on the road they don't encroach in the road so this is okay you still could put a fence down the side of your road right right sorry yeah kind of you said you couldn't but you could all right that just curious yeah yep no sorry about that um what are you doing about water waiting yeah it'll be we'll we'll have to wait for water oh so you don't even have water yet well we there moratorium in town I understand it so you're not driving Wells no so how we can't even yeah what are we we just like this we just say like a major roadblock right there no i' I've done it another time you you know we go through it and it gets approved or denied whatever you're going to do but it's always subject to whether it's sewer water electric you think it's subject to well we can deny it for the lack of water and that would be an easy denial um which be easy you only have a water do you have sewer yes you have sewer a fire suppression for the fire department yeah to say a no water there's there was a state law I ran out this in in another town where I drilled my own Wells I had more rum you have to allow hookup for fire I don't understand your question about that statement what do you mean they have to allow hookup there's it's a health and safety thing I know you there there is a connection because you're not really using the water for domestic purposes but um you'd have to talk to the water department but that's it was news to me it was like about a year and a half ago on a Rockland development I have so they're allowing me to hook up the fire but I'm producing my own water I know we don't have that ability because we just went through a 40b that just went through that didn't have that ability they had they had to come up with their own Wells and I'm not an attorney either we can let the yeah you know I I know well I don't I mean I don't have to really worry about it because you have to get a peer review and peer review would just State you don't have water so why even move left or right water seems to be the most taxing issue here with sewer being number two um the rest of it is semantics at this point because it could be five years it could be 10 years we just dealt with this with a where they were going to stop a 40b because they wanted to put a Wellhead in in the next 25 years so I don't know where the how to even wiggle here really at a loss here because let's say you do get water and you only get enough for five residences do we do this all over again do the whole shoo match again it would it would just you know it would toll you know and that's what I don't understand there's no reason to keep kicking this can if we're just going to sit here waiting for something down the road to hopefully happen at some point um especially with other 40 BS there we were just doing this exact thing for that are cutting literally in half if not to a third to accommodate wells in town um I mean we can almost just deny you in water I can wait to hear from Town Council if you want me if you want to if you want you can finish up what you got going on here I can ask my a few questions but I I yeah yeah and then we let Town Council weigh in I'm fine with that I can do that is he on the meeting what is he on the meeting I don't think so I can't tell um can you pull yourself away from the um the zoom thank you um no no he's not and my attorney's busy on another so he's not here tonight either because and he knows Jay very well so unfortunately we don't have any councel either or so um again I mean that's a huge so what is a m a massive one you have sewer uh would do you have a betterment for on your sewer we haven't T I have a meeting with them three weeks so you don't know if you have what what B size betterment you have nope um parking you went on ratio 1 to n mhm see that I don't know if that ratio does that ratio I'm trying to ask your engineer if that really counts um cuz that's the mall them all use that ratio I don't know if that's the same for living um you're going to do the waivers no matter what uh property control you say you have consom conom we have to wait I mean do you even want to go down the the the peer review of IT do you even want to oh I'd submit it to peer review maybe talk to you talk to uh talaman first okay and then yeah I would I'd be game for peer review yeah cuz you'll have to put money in the kitty and then go through peer review right um have you done any traffic studies yet yes you have yeah everything going One Direction or everything going two directions two directions so it was done by uh McMahon which is now Bowman Bowen bow uh Bowman I still have McMahon on the um so real quick can you spell the the new one you said sure b w oh Bow yeah bow sorry um the SES here in the middle uh and I'm not an engineer but they've got they've assumed that 60% of the traffic in and out will come up kushman 40% will head south you know to the train and and out that way [Applause] so what was it what was the trip ratio if that was 60% what was there do you know the number of the trip ratio number that's on this one okay so this is morning Peak they have 26 trips going out this is like 2hour peak in the morning and they have 18 trips going out and then they have 11 coming in seven coming in uh it it's all in submission but it's buried um so in the morning there's a total of 39 say 40 back and forth on kushman and then the remainder is down there you know to uh Maran and then in the afternoon it's a little more so uh there's a total of say 60 peak hour afternoon kushman and like 40 uh afternoon the rest is uh distributed during the day um so but um trying to think what you guys would have to do for neemi for that road because that's like the tiniest Road in Peak your Peak is at school Peak which is like I don't know if you've been down there at any time on any day at like 8:00 a.m. or 7:00 a.m. it's absolute Madness right right there um is it still 162 units it's not a good it's 142 get dropped a little bit cuz I dropped it to 144 units 144 and what is the how many two-bedroom and how many PR typically I do like 35 40% ones uh 10% threes and the balance to okay which was assumed you know for this traffic study you know bedroom count anything else L um no I'm sorry to interrupt I just I didn't know that's fine me where like what else do you have a written traffic study yeah it's a whole typically it goes to peer review and then everybody they argue and then we we chat about it you know so I'm a little early with this but I thought I'd blow up a couple of you know there's 20 25 pages and more stuff but I think these are the important important sketches okay yeah but there there is one anybody else where we going yeah I don't know it seems like a lot of cars coming out in that one spot knowing that um that road is not even a full-size Road um has no I don't I don't think it even up to standard of a fulls size Road I think it's only about 22 ft wide um all right so you did a traffic study it's where those roads all lead to also want interest dumping out from kushman on the hilltops on Main Street and keep your finger going all the way because the traffic and back yeah like like to the ceiling yeah it's pretty bad zone right now um so no water sewer we don't know buffer kind of density is high what are the height of those buildings what were the actual number of the height of the buildings um withit the Trap I'm sorry it's like I want to say 52 ft or 55 but don't you know the trees I know were 70 but we're below the tree line the back to the traffic study what what day and time was that done I don't know was all through I'm just thinking there I mean the school buses alone on that road are backed up but these and you could you're probably right you live in town you know but these sketches are new traffic generated from the development and then they also get into the level addon not the actual right he's saying what his what his contribution to the the problem would be on top yeah I mean the problem is existing right right right so that would be under that's under peerreview based on his traffic study saying this is what we will generate yeah okay the peer review I'm sure will look at the level of service they call it up here at the traffic like but that's all in that report so so that's basically about going to double it what is existing now yes traffic wise yes yeah they're saying there's are you are you proposing these buildings would be 55 plus no no what's your ratio for uh children all I can go from his experience so I've done a couple in uh the last couple were up in Hanover right on Route three there and they they're not that many k we had that was 76 units the last one and we had like seven or eight Under 12 you talk about the one behind uh the old Mall back there no this one's uh like noell hand over line uh up by Alba uh there's a like a beauty salon on Webster Street okay I know your area but I can't see the project how big was that project 76 units so half yeah I did a couple hundred units recently in North adoro that's downtown they have lot far less kids but it's more of an urban development you know so I I think Webster streets probably a better compare um that's my first this round and North Point's another one I didn't hand over right across from the Shaws and the similar you know not many kids I mean the just if they're younger people in there they tend not to be having a lot of kids these days and apartments are a lot of one bedrooms and yeah I going to think long range not 10 I got to think but there yeah you do get some kids um Mara anything any question anything no Kevin uh no I just you know what I think we're U it's good that you're showing us these things and stuff like that but there's still a lot more toeing out here yes I think it's one a at best um Doug um just for an overview this is very not too informative but I guess we'll get into the more meet of it later Lane I just traffical loan I don't see how this could even work but that's my initial thought and the addition of I know you're saying that there's not going to be kids but I think that we have to think about the school system there's a lot of pieces you're adding a lot of have you even reached out to fire even remotely about a 52 foot high building no okay no that one's going to be your one of your major hurdles also we have on the uh you know there are their longest truck in the and the turning radiuses all that's been engineered and everything's sprinkled right oh yeah yeah these things get crazy with new new code very good because I know we're s far in the beginning anyone from the public that has this is so close to the very beginning so if you want to say anything you can step right up name an address just realize we're at very very beginning of this so don't get into the minutia of it street with traffic I AG with you I live I live on second Brook Street I see the traffic every day it's piled up from the school all the way to like borderline Main Street like on uh Brook Street right there it's piled up there and all the way up to Main Street there's no way this can work at all I frankly cannot see this working because if there's a projected like tra projected uh additions traffic it's going to be gridlocked you're not going to get anywhere you know like you say to just take that and go to the ceiling with traffic it's like during the summertime like Peak summertime traffic will be backed up from like Main Street all the way down to like Charlie horse or Main Street all the way down to like Stop and Shop piled up double that that's that's crazy so that's all I got very thank you name and address yeah my name is Keith Hansen I live at number one Coppa Beach Drive I want to Second what uh this gentleman just said here about as far as the traffic goes what he's telling me I don't know when he did a study or what he did he maybe he did it on the Sunday after no one when no one was there but I don't know but from what I can see I've sat in that traffic with through four sets of Lights just trying to get out on chman on this is during the day never mind when the buses are there during the uh morning and the afternoon it's absolutely ridiculous uh kushman drive is not made for this additional traffic it's just not going to work it's uh there what lands on both sides you can't improve upon that road uh for for another 300 cars a day making multiple trips back and forth it's not going to be good for the town and uh I I would say this this development him putting a project behind our houses is just uh not doable I I just don't see how we can go thank you very much thank [Music] you opinsky 15 Copper Beach dve um the key fob situation just sounds like smok and mirors to me I don't understand how you have um residents not handing off them like who do you have a plan for who you have an person at the gate you have like two people like checking that they live there like to me we now just approved the town approved all these apartments at the mall so you've created a direct access to get to this end of the town without going out on the highway and getting off the highway and the off an on-ramp getting on Route three is I feel like I sit on the middle of the highway waiting to get actually on the on-ramp so I don't really see I feel like this is an like an amazing little cut through for now the the um train whatever is happening at the mall to the schools and this whole like the other end so do you have somebody that you're going to you going to have people manning it people like 24 hours a day like checking or you you're just going to have a gate and hope that people don't break it or leave it open stuff like that like a freefor all okay details to come details it's a huge detail cuz you are going to create a high so can't confir with each other very good good Jill Doyle I live at uh five off second Brook Street I also work at the schools and our schools are bursting at the seams we have eight third grades this year we're going to have maybe nine next year we have there's no room there's no room for any more kids in that school there's no room for any more traffic I live at off second Brook Street I sit in traffic going to work every day it's crazy the traffic is just unbelievable and it can't get any worse kids are late for school because their buses are sitting in traffic if you bring that many more people in that area it's not going to work thank you Linda Lawson 5 bberry Lane um I wonder if our town fire department has the ability to even if this um new construction has sprinklers the ability to put out a fire in four story building well that's they're going to have to take that up with the fire department anybody else go ahead hi I live on uh 273 Main Street in Kingston Jennifer kushman I've sat at my I live right across from St Joseph's I've sat from right about the police station trying to get down to Summer Street and get down in Jones River for 20 minutes because the traffic's so bad there's no way we can handle more traffic Kingston for more housing on top of that the schools are your high schools are 25 people 25 kids to a class right now and we've lost tons of teachers at the high school already we can't handle it we just can't handle it right now I'm sorry thank you go ahead hi are we supp to identify ourselves yep name and address okay Maryland coso 160 Pembroke Street and I'm also on the con ation commission and I'm here on behalf of Matt penelo who could not be here tonight have you addressed a request for waivers no we're not even you're not even there yet you're like two years away from that wow okay well nice to be with you tonight they don't even have water thank you though um anyone else go ahead name and address so my name is Bob MOA I live at 6 second Brook Street um I have I don't know if this gentleman's ever dealt with fobs before uh but I have a real issue with that too some of us may remember when corpor Beach Drive was opened up because of construction that was going on it was an absolute parking lot from one end to the other and once you get down to uh the end of kushman drive people assume you're going to take a and go up the hilltop but you're already backed up completely in that direction and then it turns left and goes through the school parking lot especially at times when parents are there trying to pick up their kids and the school buses are there and it creates a parking lot second Brook Street used to be known as smel Pont Road basically a cart path windy Steep Hill dangerous turn uh you get to the bottom of it and you only got a very short distance to Main Street taking a right uh and God forbid somebody leaves the gate open and this turns into a throughway you're going to have a nightmare like this guy can't even Envision because he hasn't been there and seen it but there are people who've been in this town and seen what happens the traffic is already terrible as it is dangerously bad maybe maybe somebody wants to pay to straighten out second Brook so he can use that as a throw away because other than that it's going to be it's going to be very difficult to get uphill Hilltop to those lights especially at certain times of the day and very difficult to get anywhere in the town because as one woman already pointed out it can take you I mean coming down Summer Street I turn on to Green Street go down Elm Street to take a left on Brook Street to get to second Brook because I don't want to try and get onto uh Summer Street and go down that hill over the Jones River uh we we have a traffic problem in this town already and this this could make it seriously worse and so the whole fob idea just doesn't fill me with confidence thank you thank you have you thought of closing that end and making that a closing the other end of that and making that a fire access only fire police access only we have a couple of those in town pushing all tra thought about it early but it's that that's a tough one the mic in your hand oh I'll talk loud uh I'd have to really think about that cuz I think the uh originally when I got interested in this the access was only from Maran drive and I wasn't interested um because it's you all 100% of the access is through an industrial park I think you'd have a tough time leasing it up um well you can push it toward the state and tell them that the NBTA is right there say everybody can walk right to the train and head to the city oh yeah that's yeah the state's already approved it right I'm just saying it's kind of a joke but um yeah there's a reason why they close that street because it is years ago the cut through from one half of the town to the other half of the Town yeah I've heard that without going around the world or going on the highway um schools weren't that big then either schools weren't big and traffic wasn't this crazy and everybody still goes to the dump which is on the other side of town um so you could you have a a lot of homework I'm not going to give up on the public that is online does anyone from Zoom um raise your hand which is whatever the little key you have to ttch to raise your hand if you want to talk going once going twice I have nobody all right that being said um I guess I'll just talk to Mr Talman next see where if we just kick you out really far until you have water I don't know how many you'd have to give us a waiver that gave you a good amount of time I don't know what the time limit is on that either um but we definitely need a waiver going forward period um I don't know if you want to sit and wait because it might take a bit for tman to get back um just because I know next week is Thanksgiving week and then we're going into the season so I'm sure we get back but we can figure out from there and if we have to to kick you out a certain distance and or he says yeah you can go through all the construction work but it's at probably at your yeah your risk and your cost so I guess we can cross that and we'll have to either have a meeting on it with talaman or that can be discussed through emails and then made made aware during a public meeting okay all right what about the peer review so there's no reason to peer review if you have no water so I'm going ask I'm going ask Talman if if you have no water is it worth even peer reviewing because you might your access might be severely limited right but the question was going to be like if he says it's okay to go do we need another meeting you would have to do another meeting yeah you have to do it exactly exactly cuz you're going to have to pick a peer review out of our list um we'll then request money from you to put in a kitty um and then the peer review can start and then that's the fun game of peer review arguing with each other then coming in front of us and arguing in front of us somebody sent me a list so I went through and checked some already but I been you know we got to we also have to the bigger problem is we have to reach out to these places a lot some of them don't want to deal with 40 BS anymore mhm just because they're they're year long two years long three years long um so let's get through Talan first see where that goes fair enough anyone else last second very good so how long are we going to Contin I say we could just continue this to the we already have a meeting for when's our next actually no she's not here 1 of December unless we can continue it down long the first what is December 2nd anyone have a calendar December 2 is a Monday actually December 4th fourth is a Wednesday the 18th is Wednesday December 4th I don't know what else is on the docket so I can I have to putay you for 7:15 just in case there's something else on the docket actually I'll make it a little early make it 7:05 that way I don't have to wait that long the 4th and the 18th next two Wednesdays I figure tan we get back to us relatively quick um if not we'll push you um anyone want to to do a continuation I'll make a motion to continue the kushman Farms LLC application to December 4th yep at 7:05 p.m. second second all in favor so we'll hear from Talman if not we'll we'll have an might be a big kick yeah all right than thanks thank you minutes you guys don't have to hang if you don't want to don't worry uh I'm confused in the new way the V I didn't go through them yet cuz I couldn't download a couple things the other day yeah some of these I wasn't here for oh they like broke it down J this is yeah these are very very very very very very detailed well they like very very detailed well I see um down here conclusion motion to continue on meetings of 717 on page four where it says Doug Don darl makes a motion to continue the discussion until August 7th which is second um I have to we can't approve these but GL Perillo um the only reason we can't approve these is there's no motion to adjar on any of these and it's going I think back and forth between two different hearings oh wait last one it also has me asking questions on Indian Pond and I didn't do anything with it so these are well that also calls it a comprehensive Indian Pond yeah so we we got to it's mixed up yeah yeah we got to let's wait on these and it's whopping Road not whooping Road right one thing we're talking about on whopping Road and then it jumps over to Indian Pond yeah that's like okay I thought it was just on whopping road yeah I know that's what I read when I read it yesterday yeah um are you 1 just going right to the line I think she's trying to come up with a template is what she's been trying to do um easier you know cut and paste templates you yeah I just looked through way all right file um let's skip the minutes just so they can that way we can go through it later um any other motion motion to adjourn can I get a second second all favor all right thank you for