##VIDEO ID:we1Tfzvs9lo## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e good evening it being a little after 7 on December 4th 2024 open the Kingston zoning board of appeals can I get a second second all in favor I I I very good first on the agenda public hearing for kushman you can probably do it in a detail you refusing yourself yes all right you can probably do a yeah a public hearing will be held at Town Hall to hear the request for a comprehensive permit under M Journal laws 40 yep is that a so he G myne saying ex you have to go mic make sure your mic on green lit I this make the Green Dot says push in the middle got it better um so my attorney I respectfully uh disagreed with that they did the research and I've done it on other projects and he knows Jason so I find you know it's a bit of a surprise to me um so if those are the only three options then I would uh I want to push forward so I would request a denial okay wa wait wait wait I I'd like to see that in writing because I I i' like I mean this is just you reporting to us that the town attorney said this applicant are that all applicants that come before us so they have two I'm just asking so for the for 40 for 40 bees you have to have basically what about 100 pieces all together sewer water fire police um conservation um you have to own all of the one home two homes or 5,000 homes right but typically what I don't even know if it's particular to a 40b I'm not an attorney but typically you if if the applicant is willing to go forward you go forward and you condition it unless you give us not going condition water Because unless you give me something in writing from the water department or the board I should say that says that you're going to have water within what 10 years 20 years 30 years you know who wants to give a give a conditional approval for a 40b without water but if the applicant's paying for everything paying for the peer review engineers Mass housing has approved it why why waste this board's time when five years from now that's a legal question but I I'm just going with my own experience I've done it in a lot of other towns and I've just did it in Rockland and they subjected the they have a they have a sewer moratorium for instance I'm fully approved after three years and it but it's subject to sewer I mean if you want if you want to get in a legal battle with it you can do it early on we can kick this down the road there no point seen you two months or three months can kick it out a year but there's no point you're just going to be kicking it out until you have water you know unless you're going to put wells in which you you're stating you don't want to put wells in so you're willing to wait the time until the town gets a well so you're not looking to get the project done because you need to get it done you want to get the project done because you want the size of the project done because you want the town's water to push it in you could put Wells on your property you can't there why there's not enough room so I'm doing wells in Rockland but I had a lot more room there it's too narrow so you you don't you I can't drill my own Wells so I would request water connection so yeah I don't want to get I'm trying to be argumentative my experience just trying to tell you you know what I can pull the board if you want to if you want to get Town Council here I can get Town Council here and you can bring your counsel and you guys can play a little little hacking sack back and forth and then why don't we just continue it P Rich's a written opinion yeah they can chat I I don't think that's going to harm I mean I I have a question though how would you if we approve this I mean if you don't have water why why why are we approving this because it takes so long so for instance let's say I get an approval that's conditional right that probably takes peer review back and forth let's just say six months takes me a year after that to even get Architects MEP fire you know I'm like 18 months easy down the road before we even try digging all um you know I've heard water is maybe a couple of years maybe three years maybe I heard 18 months you know say a year to three years um I would sit on the permit you know because most banks aren't even going to lend unless you have water you know you don't have a permit so you you sit but then in the meantime you're CL us from approving other projects in town well all how why why this is a a huge for you're asking for a lot of units here and I mean I I think that we're under the standard of whatever the percentage is if we ever do meet that then we don't need to approve these most times I've been in actually love 40b Apartments because it gets them another their 10% quick you know the the because I had heard the um the apartment folks I think they're from Texas down there that was not a 40 big so the town did not get the benefit of all those units towards its you know Shi number subsidized housing this all units would count was affordable towards the affordable housing account so generally it's viewed favorably but I I get your point you know it might not be from another another and now that we put the NBTA uh zoning over the mall there could be potential of apartments up there too because there's other places going under and they have water already can I ask one more question on your drawings I noticed today the where you come out towards the MBTA it looks like you're going through a parking lot do you own that property I have an ement from uh um Donal the owner that's part of the package in the um so you would just be going through that parking lot that's part of the Dog Day daycare C correct yeah she owns the parking lot and the Doggy Daycare right yeah but she's she's required I think she's under special permit over there that Doggy Daycare if I'm correct I'm not sure so that would affect her special permit my point I I yeah that that one's Beyond me I I I do have the easement or I should say it's under agreement so you're wanting to move forward with peer review and and somehow get this well not somehow but get this approved and then just sit on it yes I I don't know that I would be willing to do that but I'm not going to waste but you talk to Town Council y I can have him come here and and try to Hash it out lawyer to lawyer but I know what he's going to site he's going to site that they're in litigation now with may have for the exact same thing they do know each other you know and I and I know Jason myself I mean I'm sure I would be agreeable to continue it if you folks would and just let them chat you know and we would get an answer I can ask the board I'm only person okay Lane um we come back to you yeah I I mean I'm in inclined to deny it based on the water but I mean I can't deny it based on other things cuz we haven't done the peer review corre my inclination is that it's it's way too big and the parking sit not the parking the traffic situation alone is going to be an issue density density will be an issue yeah Kevin uh I'm the same I mean there there's no water you got to get the water in first before it gets approved because if we did something like this and then three years down the road now something else changes uh but but you already got the permitting my fear is the board will change and we're going to miss out on certain things where you're going to have to get like a 6 in main down to you for fire suppress that might get passed over because Mar and drive is a dead end and I don't even know if the water Loops back up or they could give you a whole we would provide a loop I'm saying but they give you a whole rig and AO and sudden you go this is way too much money we don't want to do it but we have this we have this for something else um Bob I agree with Blaine and with Kevin on I'm the only dissenting vote I think if the applicant wants to go forward he should go forward uh the timeline is likely going to be 18 to months to two years before even uh uh water you could pursue Water Hookup um if water you'll have to deal with the you you a condition would be that you would pay any betterments or lay the lines that would be necessary correct you've already talked to the steward Department isn't that correct you already have sewer and you have you already agreed on a tenative uh betterment fee is that correct yeah mive but yes that's $3 million two 2 million and you don't have a problem with that no I can do pre-treat there I can't I can't do water wells but I can do pre-treatment and not hook up with sewer um but I would prefer a sewers cleaner um and uh so I absent and I haven't seen any absent any requirements in the 40b enabling Authority um uh I of timing or that the board has addressed to who wants to give a permit to somebody who might not build for 3 years or who might sit on it unless those are considerations uh of the statute I think the board is is acting um uh Beyond its Authority uh in prejudging your application before we've even had peer review we've even addressed the traffic impacts um what do we do if he's only granted enough water for four units that that's his problem that's not our problem it comes back to us we have to do the whole process again you do the again he has to scale his unit his development back to four units that becomes an economic decision for this development so why not make that decision when the water is available because he doesn't want to he is saying I am willing to take the chance that my project is worthy enough uh that my Engineers are good enough to address the traffic impacts to address conservation to address all of these issues and I'm willing I'm so confident I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is I don't know what the deal you've made with sewage to commit to that capacity and to give them some money up front I don't know but you're willing to do that and I can't believe this board is standing in a willing developer way there's no water and it's in peret there is going to be water because we if we don't have water this town goes bankrupt okay we all have water if this town doesn't get water we need more water we are we are pack we are pumping currently in excess of our permit currently just to meet our current demands so yeah we have water right now but that water could run out the the state could come in and Sh could impose serious restrictions on our water we just pass you're just saying our water is at a at an extreme extreme abuse say and then you want to go forward with something that doesn't have water that's going to only make it wor we just passed a million dooll item to to engineering for our well okay we did that I mean the talk to the water commissioner Commission they expect the water again their timeline is consistent with this development may or may or may not happen I've already said I want to see something definitive yeah like we've conditioned things on something that's going to happen within two months or three months again I don't don't TR against me you can do whatever you want I'm one vote you can do whatever you want you will all out vote me all right I'm just you at you asked for a poll well you asked for a poll I told you what I think I'd love to see this written opinion you're already in litigation over this very issue I wouldn't be as cocky as you are that you're going to Prevail here and his Council here have in public debate let's plan on that okay yeah I'd like something black and white but great I think it's important that everybody understand right you know why you know we're not going to let this developer or other similarly situated developers go forward quite frankly we're taking the position there there will be no development in this town that is not serviced currently by water and sewer that's our position I think that continue the hearing not the meeting right continue his hearing yes okay I thought you said the meeting I'll second the motion to continue the hearing all in favor um so you're going have to draft an email to Town Council that we're asking to be here for Fishman Farms thank you thank you guys oh we didn't vote oh oh we all in favor I I guess we did we closed the hearing Jen right uh two seconds minutes no we're not doing we're not going to do the minutes um gen's asked us for our way we want our minutes written because we got this that last set of minutes that came in they were pretty pretty heavy pretty thick um if we can come up with an idea that's pretty to the way it was before yeah I mean just as detailed I I think she's trying to make it so it's cutting cookie cutter for her where she just has to plug in stuff and it's uniform for the even if we get another person down the road um that's all I'm asking yeah for for each hearing you I have no opinion on how yeah are I don't I don't care either I just I don't want her to get bogged down like we did years ago we're behind by n n months minutes whatever is easier for her yeah I don't I don't want her to get so bogged down doing you know on a 2hour night she has a a four page front to back uh minutes and then someone just goes ah was when I was reading it in a few instances it felt I was quoted and Lane was quoted and we weren't even at that hearing we left okay and it was it was it was just difficult to to comprehend yeah that one time okay are you taking them or is she taking them I I'm again I'm just trying to provide some constructive feedback to her talk to her I thought the form you're confusing this even more than it has to be okay I'm sorry I have we adjourned I I'll talk you privately Jam try to give you some constructive feedback I thought the Forum was fine I'll give Jason phone number for you thank you very good anything else motion to adjourn a second very good all in favor e