##VIDEO ID:V2RaQN7FZt8## [Music] good evening it's Wednesday December 18th 2024 at 6 PM calling the Lakefield Board of Health meeting to order is there anyone recording this in the audience I see no one Lake cam is recording this um first on the agenda is 98 Kingman Street um we're going to put a hold on that because the engineer is not here yet and we'll jump down to number two on the agenda eight Asel Road meet with Sharon Associates to discuss requested variants from Title 5 section 15 260 to allow the use of a tight tank how you doing turn it over to you um this is one I don't recognize this is a plan done by crime engineer that's right I thought I had the wrong PL with I got worried um I got originally I me with Brian Fisher this evening the own of the property and U Brian Brian's got a wife who was much more gracious than mine she let her let him build this great big garage put his cars into I'd never get away with that but he that's what started all this it's a metal building it came to to design a foundation for it so we started doing a foundation plan for it which um eventually then well because of the size of it we the design required that we put some floor drains and being in a Title 5 area that means that the discharge from the floor drains has to go through a gas and oil trap and SE view here uh the discharge has to go through a gas and oil trap under the plumbing code and then because it's Title 5 area you can't dispose of it in a leeching field it has to go into a tight tank so we had laid this out and uh um all of this was fine this this uh I don't believe doesn't it's a plumbing coat issue basically it isn't a title F yeah it's not so much the floor drain it was the bathroom and so the eventually having having done this Brian came back and said you know it's a long way from my house which you can see up in here to where the property is uh to where the building is and can I get a bathroom in there so wanted to put a bathro in it so that's been added to his floor plan um however we thought you know we got two choices here we already have a gas and oil trap picking up the discharge and going into a a holding tank a tight tank we thought rather than putting it into a 2,000g say combo tank septic tank and and pump chamber and pumping about 250 ft to get up to here we have to go around across the driveway or come around the back side to get into the existing leeching field which is way off on the opposite side of the house for such a small amount of flow that he's going to have when he's in there this is not a commercial operation this is just his hobby shop and the amount of time he's the amount of flu flow he's going to have design flow is very minimal um what we thought was if we can get a variance to allow us to use the same tank come into the other end of it with his sanitary waste he can have this all pumped out periodically and it's U basically uh allows him to save a lot of money it's compared to what would be at least a about a $155,000 investment with all plus the trenching I know sure if he can do it for that right so it's a it's a a big expense for just something to give him some comfort in his uh in his hobby shop so so that's that's why we're in front of you it's uh basically you know is there a way that can be done yes it could be done with a with a combo tank and we could pump 250 ft and trench all the way up as to the existing debox um but you think of when you think of the the amount of distance that we're going to have and the amount of flow that he's going to have on a on a a regular basis in that little Garage in that big garage uh it's he's going to have so much double pumping going on here you're going to have 200 50 ft of of pipe that has to drain back down to that tank every time uh there's a cycle so uh it just seems like like a not a really uh what you say a reasonable approach if we have to do it then we have to do it but we H in front of you to see if we can take uh what seems to be a more uh Common Sense approach and just put it into the tight tank okay um thank you for that so that's probably is why there's some discrepancies on the gallonage on a couple of these different pages sometime scr out 15 one it should be 2,000 we're going to um 2,000 I think is the minimum we want to use on it because to as a uh as a tank a holding tank for the uh gas and oil trap it could be a 1500 gallon but as a tight tank is a minimum 2,000 gallons so we okay that's why it's crossed so we would upgrade it to a 2,000 so it said 15 down here sorry about that I we 2000 yeah it was at 15 we increase it to 2,000 as part of this proposal okay and you're calling for an H20 yes monic I believe yes tank is that where the garage doors are when you come down the driveway you going drive over those tanks to go um doors are in the front Okay um in this area here so you see the driveway coming down through here uh there is a a portion of it comes around the side but that's why we got the H20 on there but the basically the um the overhead doors are in the front facing I think there's a door on that side too isn't there do you have one on the side there's one 12 by 12 on the Gable end I think one of the covers will end up in front of it no I was told that other access was only for construction and not allowed permanently so how are you going to get there you're going to drive all the way down and then around the building to get into it do yeah the right side oh he just proposed it dri was going to come in off of that road that's why I was asking but you do come in off Lane right driveway coming that it shows a driveway coming down this yeah know well yeah this is kind of but yeah no we're coming through here and this is like this's garage to us here as well okay well no I was just asking cuz he said you were going to come in off of V Lon oh oh I didn't hear that okay yeah I thought this was your access point no I I I can try to apply to get a curb cut but as of right now we're just using it for Access and I'm going to gate that off later and if I need it I need it I access through but it's not going to be something I'm going to be in and out of there every day okay not at the moment but if I decide I'll I'll try to get a curb cut down or something like that okay and you're not running a business out of there clastic cars and do road course racing that's like my hobby so and I'm going to store all my crap somewhere so so this is all residential anyway right so it's nothing to do with the business it can't be business owned it's residential zone no but I just didn't know if that triggered a business with triggering different stuff though right so that's why I was asking so okay so if it's not business it doesn't trigger that stuff so I mean I just think there should be two tanks one for the two tight tanks instead of one I wouldn't make you pump it all the way around to the field but I think that would personally think that would be a better solution for this a problem with that we have the room to put one in you know we can we just run it straight out over here it goes straight out from the sanitary line and put it right over there yeah cuz pumping it all the way around the house just yeah I I agree with the pump and up the debx I I don't really now but new construction you know for a dwelling you know we' never grant that it's just that you're looking for it's just a bathroom in a garage I'm getting any younger so when I'm in there right um and the amount it's going to be used it it'll put less strain on the septic I don't really have a personally myself I have a big problem with the tight tanks it it filds up you pump it out no we've allowed them for like pool houses and stuff before out in the backyards of people's houses but but I guess my only question um maybe Ed can clarify a little more um would two tanks change anything where this is getting pumped by a holler and going to a a pump station a treatment facility you probably need two different trucks to do it because you wouldn't be able to mix it right if if if it if it's a it could be considered what a special waste is that that the category uh yeah I if if you just have a tank where you have the floor drains going out that's Industrial was water so you would have that would go to a separate facility whereas the other one is septic and that will go to a thing so I said but because you're going through the um water separator you can send that to a was treatment plan exactly we could tie directly into a sewer with this and right yeah but you you you can't do it to the leech field but like I said you could go to a waste waterer treatment plant but if you have two separate tight tanks um and you're not treating it I don't think you can send straight industrial Wastewater to a um um Wastewater Tre plant you would have to have it go to our Industrial Waste in this case the pre-treatment is provided by the gas and oil Tru so basically before it goes to the Sewer you you're providing the pre-treatment so that it is acceptable to the Sewer but I think you do have to notify them that it's not just straight sanitary sewer that it is it is cuz not all wastewater treatment PLS will accept that so it is I think it does get a little trickier there um in theory I mean c nowadays don't leak that much so if he had two tanks the first one would probably never fill up he wouldn't even have to worry about that one and then he could pump the the one for the um bathroom then that could go at the at the cheaper rate I bet it would end up paying for itself sooner or later because the right cuz then that just goes to a regular one like that Tank's never going to fill up cars don't leak anymore really like the only reason why yeah soap and water is what it really get so it I fig that'd be cool to do it he brought it up and I was like well you know it probably not a bad idea well you know part of the problem is you have under code Massachusetts if you have a garage and this is a private garage you are allowed to just slope the floor but it's a 40 foot long building so if you put an eighth of an inch per foot in there you're going to have 5 Ines extra concrete at the back you know pitching all the way to the front to try to get that thing it was it just the the the sheer depth of the building made it kind of Impractical to to pitch the floor as opposed most putting flooor drains in the middle of and having a a constant perimeter uh elevation that was another thing too when you when you lay these out for metal buildings it it's much more advantageous to have a what I say the same elevation of floor all around the perimeter and then drop that down in the middle towards you drains as opposed to having a slope floor so now I got one other question I it's Plumbing cold bar not uh B Health but so if you did just eliminate and just went to a tight tank for the floor drain you can can you eliminate that allil water separated there's no you still have to have that you still have to have it even to go into a tight no it's to get rid of the the volatiles right basically if you look at the way that that roof you got go the outlet goes down about 2 feet or better below the liquid level all right so the only basically it causes everything to float in there and then there's a lot of venting there's a uh two or three stacks that run up to 2 feet above your roof line so it's a lot of venting so if there's any kind of volle get in there they stay in there they're trapped in there only liquid come out can come out from the bottom of that come out through the Trap and get into the tight tank so it's pretty effective it's it I guess the idea is prevent the tight tank from blowing up you can have a buildup of gases in there and this will this prevents it yeah I'm not going to let things go that far it's just to wash the car sometimes things happen but the code is always WR we're not going to have uh and the minimum size tight tank or code is 2,000 correct for sanitary yeah but if it's for floor D you could do 15 so downsize that to save a little money to back to a 15 we wanted to do a separate I mean I I guess I'm up in the air I mean it I mean if here and that it doesn't I don't know if it really matters then because I mean probably most of us I mean washing the C is probably going to put more water down there in the bathroom correct yeah if you have a wash car definitely would especially with a low flow toilet nowadays it's don't generate much from that so I mean either way I guess it doesn't you know for my re I don't think it matters to have a 2,000 or have them put two 1500s in well he' have to do a 2,000 if we made into a separate cuz that's minimum it be 2,000 1500 and but that 2,000 is based on the capacity of just the bathroom right yes it's because it's sanitary sewage it has to be 2,000 it it could be a hand snc and it would be 2,000 gallons you know basically could be a three-bedroom house yeah going to be 2,000 G it's a 2,000 gon minimum so so it's plenty it's plenty capacity okay yeah so I guess as as long as it's you can do it the way he's drawing it I don't have a problem to add another whole tank out there but if you can't like you said you're just going to notify the p that yeah just that you know if it's going you not all Wastewater implants will accept um the what it might be imperative for us to do is to find out from a pump off guy if he can take it from from that tank after the gas o trap or if that has to be treated separately and if that's the case then it's probably going to be as you saying it might pay off in the long run they have to the sanitary just in its own tank where you just pay the sanitary rate and any guy can come down and pump it out yeah and then I just going to label so you know which one's which that way they're not pumping out of something that you know yeah cuz we get a report from the Pumpers on whatever's pumped out of there so whether it's one pump or two Pumpers or whatever it is but I mean and that would show if you pumped you know just one that you knew had both in it or you know or or broke them up yeah I mean I it's six and one half dozen or the other for me I just can't get past the title five says it's it's only supposed to be F failed teic systems it's supposed to be what that tight tanks only supposed to be for a failed on-site system right for correct yeah basically they don't want to use they don't want using tight tanks for new construction that's for dwelling but I mean and it's an existing building like I said we've done pool houses and stuff before and um I don't know I mean if it's on the a lot of a house is it can still considered new construction or an additional well it's not considered new construction because it's not an increase in flow if there was a bedroom there it would be considered increase in flow but the fact that it's just a bathroom it's not increase in flow so it's not new construction that's kind of like the reason and on the on the pump hous I mean on the uh pool houses and stuff cuz either they're going to go in the house or they're going to go in there so it didn't change nothing yeah in a pool house you only use that two or 3 months out of the year it's a no-brainer yeah um so I I guess we got to decide which way we want to just propose adding a separate tank or it's just something we need to know to vote on we can't say um get a separate keep them separate or do we want to get a vote on the way it's drawn now oh I mean sounds like Chris had I want to Pumped up to the field but I don't I don't know how I feel about that cuz again it's not an increase in flow so is it new construction if it's not increas in flow I don't know sometimes these things get over my head I'm getting old yeah even like the floor drains if you look up in the plumbing code it's not even required unless it's it's commercial it says it right in it you know oh yeah but I thought it was a good idea cuz like well cool I can wash the cars inside it's a lot more money to put the drains in I wasn't happy about that but I contemplated it more and more and I'm like yeah it is nice to kind of wash your car in the winter you know yeah I think I I'm with you for the cost of running that 2 in line I I if they were willing to pump it it's nothing goes to your system it's actually I I I've just always been kind of full a tight tanks I don't see there obviously not a new construction on the dwelling but yeah um but I guess for us to vote on what you would have to know is this what you want to stick with I if there's anything if any president May uh be of value to you we did one last year for a uh a winery in Dartmouth and the winery uh required um floor drains because where they where they have the processing tanks and everything they occasionally have to rinse them down number of things they do when they go through the fermentation process so that had to go into a tight tank so that that tank however there was a small bathroom and there was only two employees and it's a pot time type of thing they're not working that thing they go in every several weeks and they do they go through this cleaning process to to get I guess the grape um with the seeds and things that out of it so it got very minor use and they allowed us through variants over there to tie that little bathroom uh into the same tight tank since we're already putting in a 2,000 y tank for the grape juice I don't call it wine cuz it isn't really wine yet it's grape juice um yeah I don't really want to do any of it but it's the only thing that makes sense right like you said you'll never be able to pump this up to the the field in the future any point cuz they'll both be tied in so you can never do yeah that one we couldn't it it's going to be a pumped forever uh the other way someday in the future if you went the other way you said dog I'm filling this tank every month it's kind of getting too costly we could tie it in but it's whatever they want me to do I'll do it I mean you know I it's up to you guys because I'm not convinced you know of of giving variance on it so I haven't heard anything has changed my mind so it's up to you guys I guess I'm fine as long as that's legal and Ed said that's totally legal the way they have it through plumbing code and both tied into that is not um in your opinion that yeah I mean like said normally the sanary SE goes there but like you said you can give them a waiver there's no um restriction on that you can give them a waiver for the tight tank there and the floor drain part like we wouldn't even be here if it was just a floor drain you know I I could just approve that you know and like I said I do it all the time from funeral homes like like there's a floor drain going to a um a tight tank and you know it gets approved because it's industrial Wastewater so that's not Title 5 you know so the only reason we're here is cuz the bathroom and so the the question really is you know will you allow him a tight tank or will you make him pump it to the field okay so it's not really debating whether this bathroom's tied in with that oil water separator that's yeah that's just a preference we're just debating whether yeah we want to allow that tight tank right yeah that's the question okay okay so that clarifies that yeah I have a friend who has run in his garage at Lakeville and I was like well we figure it's a concealed unit so there's no leaching you just pump it out when you want to pump it out always been it's a controlled thing off it doesn't put any more loading nitrogen loading on your lot it's you know it's just a bathroom and you're not adding a bedroom where it's just the way they calc it but um so I don't know make a motion dere and um we have the one variant I got to find to read a cover page the only thing we probably will just uh make sure we clarify maybe with a new plan mhm that shows two 000 on the plan instead of the crossed out y thing cuz it has to be a 2000 so I make a motion to approve the septic tight tank for a bathroom only in the garage with a floor drains tied into a 2,000g tight tank um it is a variance from Title 5 Section 15. 260 to the allow the use of a tight tank for the sanitary flow of a facility can need to specify half bath um we did not you want to discuss that we did not discuss that I know we brought that up in the past what do you propos on a half bath or a full bath I was going to do a full bath I get all nasty out there I can take a shower and just go in the house some there I didn't see is it on the plan the shower I I saw the toilet's in a double I don't know no just said sinks in a toilet yeah I didn't see any shower that's why I didn't think it was it was an issue yeah that Nick we've run into this before I I see where you're going with I didn't pick up on I'm I'm not in favor of a for that yeah we hav't allow I'll go this far but we haven't allowed people to do that lot of times somehow turns into a bedroom or an apartment or it's just supposed to be a half bath that was on the plan um all right so so amend your motion to a half bath and and it does show it on the on the design plan yes corre and um it is going to be um a half bathroom only no full bath allowed in the garage I'll second that any discussion all those in favor I I I'm against it be a nay I be a nay nay okay two eyes and a a so the motion does pass all right thank you we put a change to the plan change to the plan and uh Y and then have Obed will have to inspect it yeah sign off on it just to make sure it does stay in it's a half bath also along with a plumbing inspector everybody and those yearly pumping reports are going to have at minimum yearly we have to get on all of those and it'll have to specify from the pumper that they took both they knew they were taking both out of that is that something you get in the approval letter that that spell out or do I tell the pumper that he has how's that work well state law right we got a we got a yield thing on all tight tanks anyway right yeah so the pumper will take care so all all tit tanks get inspected every year in Lakeville that's the other thing we should we should have told you that earlier but um yeah they they that's mandatory yeah every Every Spring um with the groundwater um it needs to be inspected I me you know usually what we recommend is have um uh a sey company that you know has Title 5 inspectors um so when they pump it they inspect it at the same time it's leing yeah so but I mean I mean we don't call a regulate it it but when we get that report from them when they pumped it you know they'll obviously have to note on that that it you know or it'll follow up if they didn't that they know it's taken both ways side of that right well again monolithic tanks probably the best insurance against the leakage on the tank yeah and it's age 20 yeah so it should it should truly be a tight okay all right thank you all thank you you right next on the agenda we'll go back to number 198 Kingman Street meet with ET engineering Enterprises to discuss waiver of a dewatered perk test from Lakeville regulations 4.1 good evening good evening thank you for indulging us uh my name is Azo from ET engineering I'm a register engineer in surve in the in Massachusetts I have with me here the farmer the own 8 hman um so we went out there done some test pits and uh they have top layers a pretty very tight silk loom uh it was a little bit more promising down when you get down to around 8 9 10 11 12 ft and obiously your tile says you have to have 4T of contigous previous material uh ttle five does allow for the water perk but what happens is when people hear the water perk it conjures the idea that you put a pump like you have um you know when you doing trenches for foundation uh get a mud sucker to pump that's not what we're talking here D is very clear in its requirements so basically you have to create a moot okay you dig an area that is 7 by seven and dig a 4ot trench right around it and then allow the mo to drain by gravity without any pump and if you look at 15 cm 310 CMI 15 it does say that you can the idea of that you water a perk is that tile 5 allows you up to about 72 2 hours if you have an open hole to do a test within that period of time that you expose your hole uh we don't expect to do that we're probably looking at 24hour period uh the S is an existing site we're not trying to create this massive subdivision if you will um and he he's a farmer he he owns the property and if you look at the Farm Bureau regulations in does allow you to have own occupied um uh use to build a you know your home on that property so this is a unique situation where the area is already being uh utilized for farming and that will continue to be the uh the use uh so I don't believe that you're going to be setting our particularly our president where you all of a sudden it's right out of the gate everybody comes with okay this is an existing use where again we're not going to be doing any pumping at all no pumping machines equipment will be there it all be gravity drain on the sides so basically if this was my ground I dig I dig a big trench you know bigger escavator uh dig a dig boom boom boom and then I doing a ramp I will allow me to get to that uh to that mood okay and then the per will be done in the middle of that so the idea is that you will have uh the soil basically in its natural state so you're not going to be any scouring it would be exactly same way you would have done a shelf to do a prce except that this this time here can pour water p in water you know um so we are that the board would allow that so that he can build his home it's a lot easier when you're going to be flooding your cranberry BS um to be there can I just jump in quick before they get involved though but he's got one perk so we can build a house there now you're asking for this to to start subdividing it correct um no so when you uh if you look at a Title Five you have to have four holes yeah two holes in your primary and two holes in your reserve yeah and so that's what we're doing trying to do so one is not enough and I don't think you can give it for because basically it is a new construction because there is no home there right now so if if we had an existing home and we try to do a repair for an uh we can give you any variance we want on a repair right but this is new that's what I'm saying so one whole correct I thought we I thought he had a I thought he could put a septic in there there was a good Park up here but he's right they need two good perks but we never spent the time to get a second good perk but we found an area that did perk up by um by Green lot Circle now only one was done but there was room to do another we just didn't do it uh there is not enough room right because you you got to if you look at the rate that you got there it's it's not a very uh good rate if you will so you're going to you're going to end up with a large very large air rate yeah I I didn't do the math on that but so so that's basically what we what we're seeing and the Machine that we had there uh was a little bit smaller machine so you even if you allow that we couldn't have accomplished that with that smaller machine so we're going to bring a bigger machine even if you did like two holes and two perks with do entrenches cuz that's allowable you you don't need four holes if you do trenches alternating Reser well that will be alternating if you're doing a multiple Lots in series but that's not what we're doing here no no if you're just doing one thing if you do the the a trench with a PR primary and then the reserve in the middle of the trench you don't need four holes you only need two holes and two perks and that's what I thought he was trying to go for but he never did the second perk because the exploratory perk that he did well before you arrived didn't really favor that I it was exploratory before me I didn't see those but like from what I saw there was a good perk there and it looked like there was an area that could sustain a field there but like I said we we didn't continue There we went over to the other area where where we found um a lot of fil like right right you know and then also sorry water table into that film yes yeah the other the other Au you look at also is all these setbacks you have to meet from the other the wetlands and the pawns too so that's true yeah so that's said I right so that's that's all the considerations you know that we laid out and say okay uh let's let's do that make sure that we can build a system because tle 5 is not going to give you for new construction it varant for setback from a bvw you know also where that one location did Park if I were to build the home in the location that I'm actually trying to build in it would be an extremely long pump and even if I were to change the location that I'm trying to put the home I would have to fill in a substantial amount of cranberry B up in that area so so the issue is you don't want to pump or the issue is you don't want I just where the you know where I'm trying to put the house out back in comparison to where that one CK did happen just seems ex where do you want to put the house but that's that's pretty common we we normally have people pump in 400 500 fet where on are yes but what also happens right you can you can yeah yeah what also what also happens is you can we cannot be creating our own our hardship with zoning right because you have to have setbacks from property lines yeah okay so you're asking us to let you put a septic system in a filled in Wetland basically right if the water table's into the fill right that was a wetland before it was still there is my gu would be my guess correct it's possible yeah that's possible I mean they were he has he hasn't okay so let's clear that up deat vit no no I mean at some point right he not properly I can tell you he has not been Disturbed in the last 20 25 years so it's not like it what boom let's go f well right now no that's that's what he purchased you know to do the farming um so that's really not a a proper characterization of the U of that area in terms of oh yeah you feel the W LS and you right It's just sometimes sometimes you have cred water table I understand table is this is not a no no I'm saying sometimes we have that so oh I understand well but I'm telling you we're not looking to go there and build a bunch of homes but where where is the it looks like the house is closer to any Wetlands than the field will be if it's way over here what am I missing I feel like I'm missing something he said because of the setback requirements all cranberry B everything is cranberry B you there all those cranberry but he was just saying couldn't put it there because it'd be too close to to um wetlands and stuff yeah I think the edge of the cranberry bog is what he you need to be a set back is that what he's saying that area is just you don't have much room there you have to fill that bog to push it back to get you set back from your bog without a variance for new construction right you're going to be what 50 50 50 other going to have what a 200t repairing cuz that's that's a river not just a what pond right yes yeah so that would have a 200 foot yeah you don't have a lot of space on this lot to put a system period either right so well I guess we'll go back to the the deepat perk I mean we do we have a local regulation for the Deep watered perks um on our books and I I very really like the the variant we have them on the books for a reason uh so people don't do dewat perks and um to give variances what what's the point of having it on the books why to just get rid of the oh well the hardship on the land well it's a working cranberry BG there is no hardship it's exactly what was bought as it is it was bought as a working cranberry B that's what it is it's no hardship well there is hardship in the sense that if if if my crops are going to get screwed up and I leave a 10 miles away that's not a hard that's a stretch that's not a hard Shan the Farm Bureau I work with lots of cranberry Growers that don't live on their properties they manage just fine I mean typically they're bigger operations you I don't have yeah crew and this is a 34 AC par too right a bunch yeah so it's a huge parcel to try to get single one house and one park on all that that that's what the majority of it's a pond yeah it was been dug out to make all cranberry bgs and it was dug down to the water table Yeah and then that's what happened it was dug as cranberry bog it was it's um I'm not for trying to get a lot on them I mean if it's feasible I I you know just personally I'm only one vot I'm just not in favor of waving a local reg to do thew water perks so mind you just get rid of that rag if that's what um he wanted to do and allow him again R I think I don't know if I'd ever look back it's been on over 12 years I've been on the board um there's no residence here now in any of those buildings there not a residen here the garages okay that's from the history yeah the previous owner had a home that Abed the property um that were too separate is that that's number six green lock six green Lo all and again I the location where you're trying to do too where Chris brought up the point I mean I think Ed said there was all logs and is this the point that that all the berry trees and logs down in that area or was it up here it's by the garages that's where it's it's mainly filled so it was all filled 7 ft down till you hit the Wetland where where the good perk was we did find original material there and like I said it was a 21m perk it wasn't horrible but it wasn't you know it wasn't wasn't a 2-minute per anything like that but um well what was the depths of the water at that area was it on top of the ground or we were down deep to before you hit water and then no the the the perk we did we were well uh not well above we were probably 3 or 4T above the water table the higher one right okay and then where was you dug Tes holes down where you had down by the buildings you said right where they want to and that was mainly mainly fill and housing material but we did get um a nice sand but it was it was well underwat at that point down deep where they had yeah not say you filled it just back in the day they they got away with what they could get away with yeah I think they built it up just because that's where all the you know they kept the equipment so they wanted to keep the equipment dry so they threw all their fill there but there was there was sand below that it's just um it was completely saturated so there's no way you can work it Bob I guess I'll turn it to you I don't know what your feelings on I mean I know it doesn't look that wide from the cranberry bugs but I mean if you got perks you're already out there with a machine I mean I don't know how much room you'd have to lose I mean it I mean if you got one you can get the second one yeah in different configurations nowadays we've seen some interesting stuff years I don't know yeah I'm not big on on I'm not big on the the main MoDOT just because of the just what I'm hearing just it doesn't sound Coptic to me but I mean if you get another spot to perk then I'd be open to listening to other scenarios like I said they have one it's just that maybe when you try to put it in it doesn't fit up there and if you got a second perk you can't get it with a 50ft setback right and the 10ft to property and were these Upland bogs you know were they as far as I know they were dug yeah I looked I looked at yeah I looked at the no I looked at the old maps that go back to the 40s and was all a hill yeah they dug all the dirt out they dug it all out and sold it um I'm sure like this was probably when this was up and in this was probably what we the Stream stream was yeah it was always but it went uphill from there but yeah uphill because decent sand on the lower slopes maybe and the crap was all up the top of the hill was it a Drumlin through there I didn't see that just think of as a drum you know perch garbage on top and nice clean sands on the side cuz all the good stuff ESP with the river have a riverine areas where you have you know glacial s sand deposits so mhm you know I mean before I gave even thought about giving the variance I'd like to know for sure that you really can't put a septic a field up there I can sound to well I mean I I wouldn't advocate for it but if you're open to allowing just one perk then they no like he said if you dig the other one next to it then you need two they should have just kept going that day and done the second one and done them in trenches part of the issue I mean we were there all day I mean he had a you know tough time getting that first one so cuz we even have a 60-minute perk rting like yeah yeah oh I will tell you right now if you did a 60 Minute perk there you're not going to be able to fit it in 100% one big system but I mean going back there I mean equipment time I understand but going back there to dig one more hole versus digging that giant trench and doing a big dewatering pit and everything it's going to be way cheaper for a guy for an hour and a half you know where you're going you already got one perk you know where it is you just need to do another one I mean it just I don't at this point see a reason why I would I'm only one person but why I would you know do that I don't really want to get away from letting people you know St do water and stuff like that's that's where I come back to I mean if you know we were even if I was even thinking of allowing it I would be the one to say why I don't we get rid of the dewatering thing if it's on Title 5 but well Title 5 does allow Title Five does allow it's a local R you're asking wer it's it's something that was put on by a previous board on the books that says no deep water parks it was been on for a long time um and to my knowledge I could be wrong but I don't know if there's ever been a waver granted to it but I don't want B 15 years I've been on he's been on 15 I've been on 12 um I I'm just not one for granting wavers to our local Rags with especially here we don't even know if you really need it you can probably put a septic system over there we have 34 acres of land to work with to try to find something well see that's where that's Weir that you it's a little bit of deceptive right4 if it was at 34 Acres of our plan wouldn't be here but it was built for cranberry BL I mean they built this for what it it what what it is and what it was sold as and bought as it was not built for a house lot you're just trying to put one on through some Dyke roads and a filled Wetland area yeah we to give enough variances to repairs and fil in Wetlands I don't want to do new construction fil yeah but say you know you're not going a variance to uh for those setbacks that's exactly the what will will have completely eliminated the possibility of all those if you perk this you're going to come to us with a septic system for it right so we're going to put a setic system above fil Wetlands is what you're trying to say you know what I mean we let you do the dwat it's going to end up being a design system over most like more than likely filled in wetland for new construction it's bad enough we got to do repairs in fil and wetlands and other parts of town yeah there's whole streets in town that never should have been built and that might have been one of the reasons they stopped the dewatering perks I I don't know the the reasoning why it was put on the books it's before me I just know and a lot of other towns don't allow it so it's not just L full um I know he looked into middle bar doesn't allow it um quite a few towns don't allow dewat perks they've stopped them um Chris I think we I don't know add any other comments on it I mean you were out there like I said I he's right I didn't do the math I didn't I didn't do the survey and find out where the edge of the bog was and do all 50 ft and then try to fit a that's not your job though right I mean well that's how we're here right that's why we're here we we didn't want him to be doing our job you know so but like I said there is material out there that is parkable and like I said I agree with you not all of it was um like up here um you go up by Montgomery as well that there's a some up in there too that we never even tried you know so um there is still spots available that could possibly I I can't say they will perk and again I haven't done the math where okay this you know it's within 50 ft of the uh bog like I said I didn't survey it or do the offset so I don't know but like I said there the better material is up here I would say rather than back where the garages are because back there like I said it it did look like it was just fill on on top of w and again we do allow pump systems so it is a long ways to pump it but it can be pumped if if you do get a perk somewhere out here and he wants his house out here it can you just got to dig a trench and put a 2in force main up there uh you go 4 feet you don't even need it to back flow if you worried about that much volume getting back to the tank no no I know I know that I I personally just feel like you didn't exhaust all your other options before you came and asked for this cuz it looks like there's tons of other places to try before you know what what you know what they say about looks huh you know what they say about looks can be very deceiving but you got but you got one if they had stayed and done another one you got one over here you got a park right but so if you had done another one like he said another trench you you would have had it well if you look at title fight right cuz you you're working with two regulations title F on your regulations I can't really do per 10 ft apart that doesn't meet the proper separation you got to have about 20 25 ft between park I got a question yeah I don't think I I don't know the answer to that which is weird so if you got one perk here it doesn't say where you you just have have to have two perks in this property so if you get another perk out here yeah sure it doesn't even matter you could still you got two perks Reser you get two perks anywhere you want in this property they don't have to be they just have to be 20 ft apart correct yeah it could be it could be up in there here in this corner here and said that's your reserve area on the Montgomery corner or that same lot on the other side on the corner of Montgomery and Kingland and and the idea is okay if you ever had to run a force M all that way you could yeah but you would you at least it'd be an option yeah and we Haven for like all all the perks got to be in the design system that's what I've never run into it that's why I was some town are some to so we allow that says it has to be you can't have the design right even though your System supposed to be in undisturbed soil they want their perals two perals in system but that that's an option yeah so you so we're just trying to give you options I don't want to we're not trying to stop it but I mean you know it's like all other options haven't been tried yet that's my and especially after hearing Chris knows more about the wetlands fillings and all that than any of us that's what he does for Liv and that doesn't sound like a place that would want how come you not on vacation no I want do Wetlands for I did do a survey for a water control structure on this about uh four years ago yeah okay you guys get anything else yeah I'm just back to the same I I just like I said unless someday we want to put on the agenda to disc us getting rid of dewatered I'm not for I'm just not for granting it the the variant um but it might not be a bad idea to get rid of it from your regulations it you know people brought it up we want to get it on and discuss it it's something we do every now and again we have meetings and a public hearing on the stuff on it um I can't see too many situations where it would matter right how many places were it I mean maybe in the springtime right when it's really wet spring how many the issue with with this location as far as I can see is that if it were to go naturally I don't think the water table in that area would be nearly as it's because I have the the pond that I have keep the reserve as high as possible so you know I I'm purposely bringing my ponds as high as they can be and holding it there naturally as far as I you know knoww it's going to to the ground right next to it but you know if that P like if I would have pulled the planks for the flumes and let that water go down naturally which would be devastating to my th operations but that whole area would probably you know dry out but at the cost of like I said letting the water go you know having no water from my but could you time it that you know you do the perk right after your Harvest but the thing is with the Harvest and we spoke about this the other day and I was thinking because I have a there's a small pipe looks like for a shallow well or something that goes into so I can kind of like see the you know the water in the pipe um and when we did the Harvest and we had that pond drained cuz all the water is dispersed through of the bugs you could see and we had a very dry you know yeah we're dry and could see like the water went down to like nothing but the issue is that you know I'm not just letting the water go I'm just you know and it's very costly it takes a long time I'm pumping the water into other bogs and then moving it around you know according to how the operations go you know like if I'm harvesting B one and then move it to two and you know so it's like I'm not just pulling a you know a flume and letting the water go and being like you know all right my Pond's empty I can you're pumping wait for a while like I like the whole idea is like this Pond does not just you know come back naturally you know like if I let my water go it's going to be a tough feat to get it but you didn't you just said though you already drained it when you harvested it so you didn't have to lose it all right you just moved it somewhere else so if you had tried doing this after you when you did that it was empty you probably would have had better results I I may have I mean again it's it's it's all timing and it's again it's like I guess luck of the draw um I mean obviously I feel more comfortable knowing that if I'm hiring you know people to do a park for me you know like if I have the option to do a DW like obviously I'm going to explore that option before just going for somewhere I know there's a good possibility that I'm going to hit the water um and and again I mean I don't know that next fall is going to be as dry as last fall I mean that definitely played a role in it as well um and again that's just my kind of two cents about it is uh is I I feel I I'm due to the farming operations I'm almost creating higher water table back there so it it's kind of tough to going forward you probably won't change that management either I mean water's like gold for you guys exactly I don't think you're going to manage it lower than that you're going to hold as much as you can so right I mean I can like take it down a little but but yeah I mean it's you know that's that's our biggest thing it's water yeah I mean holding as much water as possible is the name of the game in a you know circumstance like me where you know I only have what I have you know I'm not being fed from any other source so yeah I mean I'm pretty much just rain water sitting in a hole does the property go all the way back out to Kingman again too down like around past those does it go back out to Kingman over here uh no it doesn't go all the way over there I didn't know if you were tied into those if those other bogs were separate no that's another propert another property that's where the property line draws is right the back of the pond those beaten um I don't know if those were be lady Cher something okay but again I mean most towns would tell you you how to have the two parks together I mean we go out of our way to help people but um again it doesn't look like you've well that's you've done all that well that's exhausted the other options that's the information that you us and so if we can if we can leave here knowing that that information uh that you can work with us in that in that regard and then then we'll try to see if we can get one a mile away and say hey we have one over here and one over here see what we can come up with cuz as long as it meets code I mean it meets Title 5 it doesn't say we don't have any regulations said they have to be 20 ft next to each other but I mean from there to there M away that's from the other there is 100 200 ft away that's that's one of that is that what you're looking at is probably a one in Quad map are you looking at a quad map that those two corners of that property yeah it's quite it's how Deep's the lot are you looking at the lot this what is the drawing that you looking ATZ cuz you might be looking at a one 71 you already got one side of it yeah that's um but going from there to there ain't a mile is it no no that's about 300 ft yeah that's what I was saying so two perks meet Title Five with trenches is that what you were yeah if you if you put the two perks together um you don't need to do four holes you would just do the two or you can do what you do is just do one perk two holes and then whatever 500 ft away through one perk two holes um and they don't have there's no connection necessary it's just you know you would use this one as your primary and when that fails you could use that one but in most cases people just do Prim they never use the reserve just the the with the I always prefer trenches that when you have a a water t issue of um you're right yeah you know bring right cuz you know you got to have at least two foot of depth to to get the side wall leeching that you're trying to take advantage of Y so yeah there is definitely disadvantages to CH can we is this like an agenda item that you're on the agenda now can we table ask that you table this then well if we table it you got to start all over again if you want we could continue it for yeah a month or so to give him time to go dig a couple of holes if you guys are all right with that well he didn't have to notify any Butters or anything just so there's no Butters there's no paper notification just asked to get put on the agenda oh we can table it uh so he he can just withraw withdraw without prejudice withdraw without prejudice and ask again yeah you just asked to withdraw without prejudice okay and that if we vote and then agree that means you can bring it back to us at any time and you can come back tomorrow with it's it was never you can come back put back on the agenda in month if something how request then okay I'll make do we need to send another letter reques the no no you just say it okay I'll make a motion we uh accept his request to um withdraw withdraw without prejudice second any discussion all those in favor I I okay thank you at least see if you can find another app how long is a test good for like so so what I'm asking for is has the the previous owner who I bought the farm from at one point in time I believe it was it was like 2013 it was a while ago he he did a perk test on one of the bogs up top and he got a perk but then he turned it he ended up going a different direction or whatever the case and it's cranberry bar now so I didn't know if that would be a possible like if I could use that perk and not have to rip up the bog like or like if that was have any use to me or if that's like expired a 2013 perk I mean I'd have to look at it and everything but like the other thing is if it if you knew it was good just go right next to it you know and redo it if cuz was it witness is a big question you know it's one thing if you do parks on your own people do and also and also could if they if they did a bug there for the for the perk to be good indefinite per Title Five the area that you did perk will not have been Disturbed so if if since 2013 that they mooved some dirt around then that changes yeah i' have to look I didn't know if that was even something worth exploring it's definitely worth exploring if you found an area that did perk I would go and look at that area to see if it like said you can find undisturbed areas yeah and then rep perk it and how would I see any record I mean I heard all sorts of stores uh the best the best way is you go on Google Earth Google Earth and you just they have dates so you can kind of go okay this date it would look like this then you go five years L but would but he did a perk and then decided to build a bog instead you know what I can't I that's all disturb right I actually now that I think about remember seeing uh that one bog for sale is a house lot and and so he might have he might have done the park while it was already a bog I I'd have to again I'd have to look at if it was witnessed we' have record of right was asking you guys would still record of that yeah I don't I don't think we do um like I said cuz that up until um this point there's never been a house there right so there's um we we didn't we actually just created this folder once you started doing we didn't have a we don't have a folder for gber Bo so so probably was one of those self-d done wasn't observed a legitimate qu of Health per because you would have had it Rec and the other thing too back then a lot of the Lakeville used to have a 20-minute perk regulation so a lot of people were doing perks and they get a 30- minute perk and say hey it's no good but now it is good yeah so so now so maybe along those lines you can change the regulation about don't you what I wouldn't hold your hat on that but I'm happy to help him find another hole all right thank you all right all right next on the agenda number three hope you celebrate Christmas because I'm going to say Merry Christmas Merry Christmas well mer Christmas to you next on the agenda dudes and Foods LLC 712 dmouth Mass uh mobile I think we're missing an address on that but um we'll just go with the Mobile Food permit for dudes and Foods LLC it says 72 dmouth Woods right yeah I'm missing the rest of M I just got oh you don't have the whole thing no no it wasn't printed out I it's on this oh um so it is a mobile food permit it's 712 dmouth Woods Drive in north dmouth um Ed I don't see anyone here to talk to this one so I'll turn it over to Ed for an update where we stand on this per um yeah we already inspected them um they were going to do um um a onetime thing they did a onetime thing with Red Hook Brewery um they they've already done it okay and then they kind of said hey you know we we like working here we we um um and they want to do um a one-ear um licensed to do future future um I don't know if they're going to be one day events or they're going to be a permanent thing but um um they they is that the one over there that's been over there all this time no that was another one that was lawless um they had a regular one but um I don't know what's going on but they did have a regular Lawless one that was stationed there all the time um that left recently and then they were doing a one-day event um dudes in Foods so I don't know if um who they're going to use or they just want two trucks in case one's not available or um but both it was uh everything checked off they they checked all the boxes how does our food permit Run is it year to year January to January or is it from the time we approve it till the time we approve it no it goes to it goes to the January 1st so um so this is good for two some in some situations when when they do this a lot of times they'll have a one day event we we grant them the full thing because to to grant them a twoe to make him pay for and for 2 weeks it's not really um Justified so uh we we probably would in this case just extend it so to next year but then next year we'll have to reapproved you re approve it from right right they they but they they just need your approval one time originally and then after this you re approve all the permits at the first of every year yeah and then they would need um if they're a regular one they get two inspections per year okay now what happens when there's no food trucks there aren't they supposed to have food if you have a bar no no they don't the food trucks an optional okay and you said it's all been inspected already they meet all that criteria so we approving this for next year we approving it for a one day license for the next two weeks no that they already cuz you guys allowed me to do the one days so they already did their one day I think it was last weekend that they did so we're proving this for next year for next year yeah they don't want to use it before they don't want to the holidays they don't have any this is check temporary and it's got a date those dates of operation if not annual 128 2024 it's got to check temporary yeah that's what that's what they originally did okay yeah so yeah it was 128 12 was the date you just didn't make them fill out a new one I just don't want to hold them up if they if they're planning on going over there or something during the holidays or they want to use this or if this is just for yeah I haven't heard it but like I said they they they originally were just going to do the one day then like we said look do a 1 day 75 or you pay 150 for the year and they were like oh that makes more sense to do that converting the one day to an annual yeah and it's the same inspection it's not like we do a less of an inspection for the one day it's the same same inspection so so we're approving this for the next calendar year is what you're telling me yeah all right I'll make a motion that we approve the U license to operate a food establishment for dudes and Foods LC um for next year 2025 2025 second and discussion all in favor I I I okay now we'll jump on to we get the we I need a minute take a 5 minute break 4 minute 3 minute you want me to cut audio uh sure yeah okay we're back from our break at the Board of Health meeting um we're going to jump down to number four on the tonight's agenda it's a continuation from the last week it's discussion regarding proposed open space bylaw um again I guess since last week um I still really have no continuation of an update anything from my perspective until probably after we meet with the the planning board the select board I guess select board on the plan planning board on the 26th um just 7 p.m. here clarify more I guess um let's do you have anything else add on any update from two weeks ago really of where no not not too much like I said um it's basically just if you have any questions you want uh or issues that you want um us to convey because not everyone's going to be here um I know you're going it and I'm going to go as the chair and I don't I believe you so do we need to post it see yeah we got to post it two people you have to post it if we do discuss something and I'm a 50/50 but probably not okay so we'll be going to the meeting um but but what I don't even understand is is like you can't it's against the law it's right in 40b to threaten a 40b if you don't get a different perit you on like it's illegal it's written in there so why they're letting them do this anyway I have no idea and then we get how many more places I'll trying to get hundreds and hundreds everywhere once they don't have to take them we'll be in safe habb so I this is all I don't understand why this is happening I I just can't get my head around it but you know it's I don't know it just doesn't make any sense and then doing the cluster Zone even if they get 100 units well now we need 25 more so now somebody else can do a 40b on top of it cuz we're going to have another 100 houses in town so what's going to push push us into safe h ah of this huh what what's pushing Us in safe harb ahead of this any one project would out of all the ones proposed right now would have us in safe harb the only one I can think of is the hospital and there's another one we shouldn't talk about it cuz it's not on the agenda but there's three of them out there okay I didn't know my that any one of them would put us in safe Hava but that close for a long time no safe hav is not you're done forever to 10% yeah thought we were still in the seventh huh thought we were still at seventh no you don't to be in safe H isn't a percentage it's uh based on the size of the Town how many that you allow at one time they they don't make you take a th in one year they break it down so based on the size of the town for them to come in so if you let one being development in yes if you let one in we're done we're done for years which is what should happen because if they do that once you're in safe haror you can still negotiate you know what I mean so if we were in safe Hara if we if there's another one that we think's a good project but now we're on the upper hand we can say well wait six or seven years or this is what the town needs are this is what we'd like to see happen and like I don't know why none of that stuff's happening I just don't understand it so part of this is this is almost the entire property M the 40b was like I mean all of the properties they own I should say yeah most of it except for the one lot up by County um the 40b cut out like 100 acres 186 right right still going to be developable it was separate they could still develop separate from 4 be but now that is everything except for this this lot up here they still thinks in the email we saw was said he he'd like to try and get it reson commercial but if not he would think about incorporating it into this as probably the negotiations so it it preserves more like it's less houses less impact and he gets to make more money right because he can market value on smaller lots and do exactly what he's doing down the there pretty much right lot are a little bit bigger but not but you know what I mean it's same idea I think a lot of that goes back to the planning planning board's decision it's as far as Board of Health you can preserve so much more land that's why I think that's why they what they're looking to do with this bylaw um and it's you know on I think on the email it was look it from what I read it was just for this parcel over 200 Acres over 200 Acres but it was I think it said it was only going to be designated over this area of town again that's nothing to do with Board of Health um that's why until the meeting I really don't yeah but the fact about them taking off that they have to get a perk on every lot as it was discussed cuz we know they're not going to yeah I would be against that I mean that's that's that's and that's something if I'm not there you can explain because it sounds like you're devastating the whole property and all you're doing is digging a bucket size hole and then 300 ft away or 200 digging another bucket hole cuz we're only requiring on one a year later they want have you ever seen a conventional plan conventional sub division yeah there was one we showed it earlier there was like 61 Lots it yeah there 612 so they'd have to do 61 holes like not in the last draft we got at the last in the last meeting that didn't get developed cuz it's all ledge that's why it didn't get developed I I know somebody who tried parking that a long time the reason that there's not a regular subdivision in there is cu it's all l so you know and that was my whole thing with this you shouldn't get credit for a piece of land that's not buildable cuz that was going to stay not built anyway you know and not four Parks but one you should have one Park cuz if half the property you can't build on it anyway then what are we gaining they weren't going to be able to build on it anyway if it's all ledge then they can't build there they're not going to get the perks so that's that's my whole thing with it if they're going to do that I like the idea a cluster I'm all forward but they got to be done right and if we're going to let any engineer just draw a pretty picture and say this is how much I can get when well I think we've already you all of us talked about we beat that to death earlier and we're all in agreement on that because that's but it's not but it's not in the thing we got the last meeting they took it out oh the perk fund no it's still in there I read it that that is still in there I don't know oh it's saying email say the developer set that's a killing point for them because he knows it's all Legge and he's not going to get pered that's my point yeah right why is it a killing Point not for two days with an excavated to dig a one perk hole in every lot it's because he can't build on it so it's going to stay natural because you can't build on ledge was that going to reduce the size of the 40b too that well the big the big pretty picture of the approved 40b if they had to actually build it and blast it all out and everything that it's just never going to happen it's all ledge Jean botler tried parking that years ago after we did that neighborhood behind the high school so more like the 40b could probably be reduced too because it's just not buildable yeah but it's the big picture that they yeah it's yeah it's just a a scare tactic which is illegal from what I've read up that you can't threaten a 40b for to get another permit so so most of that's not buildable anyway that's why it's a deal killer you just made the point right there it's a deal killer because he knows he can't park it cuz everybody have to develop is in in town over the last 30 40 Years of trike parking it it doesn't Park so they're not going to get those lots so so all the leg is going to stay natural anyway because you can't build on it so what are we gaining what's the town gaining nothing yeah don't know yeah but every L get every L gets a park on I'm fine giving them a cluster house I'm perfectly fine with that cuz that's the whole point that's the whole point of but but if we're going to allow not getting perks on that then why can't we count in wetlands and all other land in town that's not buildable either right yeah no you need to build lot yeah we need to bring that to that at the meeting because I think that's just lost not just they're just not getting it yeah like reason we have to do this like oh no we don't want to disturb anything no no no we have to make sure we prove it otherwise we're giving people credit for something that right like they're never going to get I I Tred to explain it maybe I just didn't put the right words so I mean but again is that a build a b of health issue I mean I think I go back to that too as we're talking as the Board of Health that would be I mean that's that's a planning board issue I mean I can't but not the not the parking it they're asking they're talking about making a whole new Zone everybody that's going to be a whole new Zone that changes IR rigs over there too yeah but if they allow B on the size of the L and all the other stuff but how does that affect the Board of Health looking at as through the Board of Health eyes because then they're going to get thousands of gallons more flow on a property that they wouldn't get before that's how it affects us you do get thousands of gallons more flow but it's a wastewater treatment but so you get better treatment so it's so because you wouldn't have had a house there to begin with exactly so there'd be no flow there so you'd have zero but by this is why our inputs required on that c stuff I'm just trying to make sure it's in the board of healthview to argue that they need and again I'm perfectly fine with it I like the whole idea of it I argued for years when they had a committee years ago and they keep coming and talking to me and I was like you know I I told them I said you know they were trying to well we got to buy this so we should look at cluster and I'm like you should do cluster throw a carrot out there you got no one's going to do it if you can't I go throw the carrot out there their Road cost a less than half they drainage is less than half they're still going to get this many houses and then they give you all that land for free and the town doesn't go to pay for it cluster works fine but like giving somebody credit for lots that aren't buildable now is then you might as well let somebody you know say the pond get how many the worry on their end that I gathered was like they're worried somebody abusing it and I said but this perk is the I said the perk every lot is the protection from somebody abusing the crap out of it oh yeah too it's one of the protections um but yeah they they you know little pockets of houses with surrounded by woods and all kinds of nice natural stuff is a I thought it's a good thing right we we got our houses tax the lots are so small it's going to get ball field it anyway I'm talking about this I'm talking about in general like open space and cluster stuff I like the idea of it is nice cuz you get a little cluster surrounded by some nice you know we're not CLE uh clear cutting stuff down and putting Giants the houses a going is going to get clearcut the lot are too small to grade there's not going to be left but at least you get it the other half yeah yeah the other 50% they want to put in space I get that there's some nice ones in middle that were fantastic two themiddle myself Teragon was gorgeous small one and and I've seen some other others in other towns that were great but if that land doesn't perk it's never going to get built anyway that's the whole point right so then you're getting credit now you get more stuff getting built there because it's not buildable it's not buildable by Title 5 it doesn't Park so how do you give credit for something that's not buildable and that's why we're involved because that a laot right you need we we cut it down from four parks to one you know but of course the guy said that's a deal killer that just confirms exactly what I'm saying it's a deal killer cuz he knows he won't get credit for all that land so then what's in the best interest of the town then I mean I get a bunch of wetland if you going to count that yeah I think in a lot of the wording it says it can't be through Wetland Crossings and it has to no just using that as an example of other unbuildable land in town no it says it has to actually be like a a real lot just not through Wetland and up so much Upland um all right so I don't have anything to add until all right we discuss so there is a meeting uh Ed correct me if I'm wrong just so anybody's watching yeah December December 26 at 700 p.m. at the police station it's a planning board meeting but you Chris and myself will be present and this is on the agenda to discuss please I don't know if they posted the agenda yet but it it it should be on there okay and then after that meeting so this will continue uh on we don't have a meeting on January 1st because of the holiday yeah so January 15th will be be that first and only meeting in January so we'll continue this discussion to the 15th after do we need to change it so we have two do you get any stuff coming in we need change it first and third should we do like the second and no there's not not that much coming nothing for the holidays yeah I mean we could always call on in 48 hours if something came in that we had to act on in a yeah time frame yeah okay all right so to continue to our next meeting agendas the discussion on open space um we'll go to number five discuss regarding Lakeville reg regulations concerning Wells I know Bob you brought it up at the last meeting and just to see what any other towns had for mandat for Italians or anything that what everything going on did you have time to do that or yeah I did I I looked at minor and Taunton R and I didn't do any other towns but those two I knew they both had water um neither of them had anything in the RS and I actually called someone in Taunton and he said there wasn't really anything for water but they said they are considering doing that for their sewer because um sewer is a lot more expensive so they kind of need the people to to buy in um to to really cover the cost but water um tends to be a lot cheaper so they they don't do it for the water okay well that was 30 years ago so who knows if something changed when I did that but the um but yeah that's kind of like the point of it though it's they need the the revenue from it or it can't be feasible yeah so if we you know that that water system will never be feasible if we keep giving out wellth yeah and and the Point too is these are Taunton water is a big system that has a huge Revenue so they don't need the revenue um a small water system like one in Cedar Dale or like CL Shores they do need the revenue more it is more important to them but for taunt and Middleboro they they've got the fun to they've already have they already have enough customers so they don't they wouldn't have to do that you know cuz like said they don't need the revenue but I said for the sewer they do need the revenue so they're considering it so yeah and my concern was is this we keep giving our wells then that you know that thing's teetering on going bankrupt now if we keep taking people off of it like we could be bankrupt in the water system for hundreds of people so I I don't know the balance and act to what our actual what we can or should do about it but that's that's my concern with that yeah so I guess like the we said I checked ta the middle but they're they're not really good examples cuz they're not similar to what Lakeville you'd really really have to find something with someone who had like um a private public water supply that had small that was under you know under 500 customers um and then what would they do but yeah there aren't too many examples like that so I wasn't able to find there's been a long two weeks too and again on your point Bob I I think as a board we've been pretty consistent down there yeah um making them tie in if we give a variant when the water comes um not granting any Wells um if you didn't have a well already existing um I don't if they don't meet all setbacks I don't think we've granted any down there that didn't meet Title 5 yeah for new construction so I think we're we're doing everything we can at least I think as far as making them tie in without making another local rank okay um and again I don't know if you know I think when you get into that too you might might get an appeal or something on that you try to do a local rag that's really not set where you just say oh everybody's got to tie in down there I don't think we have that Authority we we could check with legal but no we can't we can I'm not saying we could make everybody tie in but I'm saying that you know if we keep giving out Wells then where there's water then they're going to fail I mean I mean that I don't know it's I see a way bigger problem if nobody down here there has water I I mean um and I mean each case is taken on its own merits yeah so I mean even the ones I mean that come in front of us that already have a well and want to put a new well in even though there's water available we I think you'd have the right to deny that that's I don't know if we have yet or not but I mean I think you could say no you need to tie in we not even though you have a well there water we're not going to allow a new well it's because then the new well isn't going to meet nothing anyway so so yeah no that's what I was talking about doing something like that to say you know we're not going to Grant another Well if there's water available yeah I just I just don't want to be responsible for that whole thing failing and hundreds of people not having water and yeah even something like that just saying hey that's a sensitive area no more Wells when yes fails you got to go onto the system I don't but we don't have that right now though so that was why I was bringing this up to have discussion about it do you have any updates on where sand down I know we used to have our uh uh people come in almost every meeting from down there in clock Shor on clock Shores where the water stands and anything that it's kind of have been new customers going on um um there have been um uh a couple like you know rehabs of places people new customers coming in um small extensions nothing nothing big or anything like that you know but um you know there there are they're very slowly there's probably I don't know five or six new customers per year and I know there were reaching out to some other people for help did that ever go anywhere the other agencies or uh you mean arcap yeah Arc Cap's been working with them and the USDA as well um um the USDA actually came down Chris was there as well for that they just to try to um help them with the loans or whatever but I I haven't heard anything on um um yeah NE but I mean and I think no news is good news on that front Okay because of what potentially could have come out of that could have been ugly so um but yeah I mean like I said last time somebody buys a lot next door puts a development in yeah so yeah no I don't I don't have okay any other discussion on the the wells we looked up no yeah okay we'll go down to uh Chris had brought up discuss regarding open oid funds I believe those funds given to every town um Chris brought up Ed I think you were going to look into so the survey had gone out and I know there was some replies and and Michael was looking from I mean the fire department put it more on social media to get people to to reply more I I don't know if you heard anything more as to no I I did here we got about 70 responses from that and then got a rough idea yeah um do we hear any dates or deadlines like when they decide when the stuff comes and when they decide how it's going to get split um I I haven't heard you though but like I said it's it's it's ultimately the select board I think and the that would would um decide where it goes but if we had strong feelings um about one or something then we would you know make a recommendation to that but um as of right now I haven't I haven't done any okay I didn't know if it was anything new information cuz like all I got was that one email to fill on a survey um chance to talk to anybody else I think the police and fire both had recommendations stuff in your comments that I actually looked at that website pretty cool too I thought they were both pretty good so and since I didn't have anything I didn't make the recommendations and it's good I guess we you brought it up but we did put on the the agenda so anybody watching knows that you know there are funds coming to the town so if anybody reaches out to to Ed or to the and like I said they they're welcome to call the office and say Hey I want to spent here or whatever and we can can message to you but you know from from a grant the funds uh no it's from the um laed the lawsuits against Purdue the settlement from that gets distributed distributed to all the states then the states distributed all the okay so we just so if anybody watching or anything has any to contact the board of health um all right we'll go down to announcements Ed any announcements uh I do not have any announcements any oh sorry I do have one um too late um we were approached by um clth County Mosquito Control I guess they do a lot of Education in the winter time um they do a lot of things as well they like take away tires so if anyone has um tires um in in your um property that you want to take it away you can make a request to a Plymouth County Mosquito Control they will come and take your tires for disposal um because normally you have to pay for a tire so they'll they'll take them for free they do have a limit um per per property they're not going to come and take a 100 tires but you know if you do have like I forget if it's like six or eight or something like that they will they will help help do that because that's the main one of the main breing rounds um but they're also looking to do education and things like that and I was going to try to find some areas possibly the COA or something like that where they could come and give like a little presentation if you guys were wanted to know what you guys thought about that yeah I'm put that I'm always G for learn more about bugs I went to a tick the entomologist for the Plymouth County Extension did a thing for the Plymouth County Conservation District it's fascinating learn more about ticks yeah and then they um you know they they mainly do mosquitoes but like I said they do um sure they have information on other things as well and are we posting anything on our website do they want to post any educational stuff on that we we already have some stuff there both about um links to pouth County Mosquito Control and both on mosquitoes and tex as well and did we have something on the tire thing uh they have something on their Tire for the website but we don't have anything on ours um but like I said I could put that but they have to contact them directly not through the yeah yeah it goes through them like if someone calls I would give them the contact information and send it to them okay they also do other stuff too like if there's there are certain like if you know there's a area that's very boggy or something like that they do dredging of streams um to get the streams flowing better because um you know the more it sits the more breeding ground it is so there are certain areas in l fill that you know to do that so if you do know an area you could you can make the recommendation but then that's very subjective whether they come out and do that there's a lot of laws that you know they have to abide by before they they can't just go dig up any scream but like I said if there there are areas that you know in Lakeville that are have a high presence of mosquitoes because of you think a stream that's just kind of blocked up they um you can make the recommendation of the Board of Health and we can relay that information to see if do it stream would obviously have to be on your property you can't say your my neighbor's stream is plug can right yeah OB be your stream on your property to make a request they go around and look for stuff too like they want to clear the wood any wood debris out of the way to anything that that holds the water up ping yeah but but too they could go and you know um ask the neighbor you know hey can we do your stream too so like if you were doing it on yours and your neighbors you can just try to do a I wonder if they go to p and open up open up the mou there go into the lake where it backs up that's needed to be done for years the water doesn't even flow in there unless it's really high now in par yeah one of the the left if you're on the lake the entrance on the left that goes through the canal that Canal is like there's times of the year that like you can't even get the boats to anymore it goes down to hardly anything sometimes you see all the Rocks ticking up and um I know they they've tried doing different things for the mosquitoes and um they've hired companies to um to treat the water and put stuff in the water that they had to get permission from d for but I mean if they dredge that that used to like flow and go around kind of I bet if they did that that would help a lot I don't know just just the only place I could think of that that might apply all right anything else um discuss the recent Board of Health uh agents fending items that was probably the only fending item I have nothing all right I'm good before I make a motion to adjourn I'll tell everybody I hope you have a nice holiday uh Merry Christmas Happy Hanukkah whatever I don't really care about political correct that much so have a great holiday and we'll see you all back next year with that for