##VIDEO ID:7QfTlmJKRAc## [Music] complex I assume loud [Music] 71 comp or theut l in charge this meeting is being held in compliance with the open public meetings act with the meeting schedule advertised in the January 10th 2024 edition of the times the meeting agenda was posted on the bulletin board City home and the city's website and the meeting notice was sent to members of the list department heads and the city engineer on Friday August 30th 2024 the meeting agenda offers planned action items known at the time of publication and is subject to change this meeting is being recorded and stream L Us in the zoom meeting platform have a r call please Council here councilman L here Council St here council president Lambert here there here right please rise for the pledge ofi who standing for moment of silence tonight uh to reflect on the third anniversary of Ida alag the United States of America [Music] thank youone [Music] uh we will start off this evening's meeting um with the first of the two public paration periods uh as usual we ask people on the state of mobility issues to step up to the podium here say your name and address you have three minutes of uninterrupted time to uh make a comment or questions Council may or may not respond so there members of the public would like to comment good evening my name is Larry okay five Liberty View Court I'm here to ask that the council modify its current practice so asking speakers to come before you and ask all three of their questions or problem with that is that it doesn't allow foring feedback from the qu from the public it doesn't allow for any interactive information Exchange and I've been talking to quite a few people who brought it up to me who said this just isn't right that you know you ask a question you get an answer and then there's no opportunity to speak to it or to modify your question or ask for clarification at all so I sincerely ask you to change that practice uh in addition so that when the qu when the public speaks the timer on when the Council or mayor speaks the timer goes off so that you can as they say in chamber meetings or at the House of Representatives I reserve my time for further questions um does that seem seem like an approach that could happen uh I think it' get a better informed citizen who could interactively uh seek information from the council and the mayor uh well the have you finished yes thank you so insed no policy changes yet um so I just received an email today I think you probably copy the Council on that um I will certainly consider it uh and uh I can speak to that at this the September 19th meeting um uh so I'm just going to leave it at that for the moment uh as the as the mayor as the chair of this meeting you know I set policy for public comment uh we have adapted it since I've been mayor to allow for a second public comment period so I I want to reflect on this um you know your email just called me today so I need time to think about this and to uh to consider uh you know your questions uh and then you know see conversation from the council members kind of you know when we have our usual conversations I'll be happy to speak to it at September 19 thank you for that I think it really improveed the conversation I I I just on the record I mean I'll go on right now I have no problem in doing that and I have no I I really have never been in favor of the three minute or a five minute you know like the time I think we're a small community with 4,000 people we all want can talk to each other in dialogues civy at a meeting and you know this is like I think I always think of this is you know that's America that's what we should be doing so I'm totally want to say that I'm all for it and I'm off with the exchange too because that's what you know our public discourse and having these meetings are about ask me a question I want to give you an answer I want to hear what you have to say and you know it evolves as you talk so I'm all for it any else want at this point um I agree with cinsky I think it's important to hear from the public um and I think it's important to listen to the public and have feedback convers ation I do think um I I am in favor of uh eliminating the three minute five minute whatever um that was a a bit of controversy several years ago um we would need to have some sort of protocol for how we you know kind of have some sort of uh parameters around individuals right you don't want somebody up here for house but they might be saying important things but still others you know courtesy for others right so yeah I wasn't objecting to the time limit as much as the lack of interactivity so I would just comment that I agree with you Larry I think that you brought a lot of good points in your email I think we can continue to improve the public participation and I would just note that although the mayor has office hours where he can meet the people and have that you know back and forth unfortunately we don't and so um you know I really think that these Council meetings are the opportunity not just to engage with the mayor but also members of council too and so this is really the best place to Dos I agre uh I'll not that the the uh part of the administrative code does restrict public comment to three minutes so that was uh enacted uh that amendment was passed unanimously at the beginning of my term in March of 2022 the previous administration had uh had been using that 3 minutes even though I think at that point that the uh the code said five minutes correct yeah but uh but we had a discussion about it earli in my term and felt that three minutes was appropriate and so that amendment was passed uh in think March of 2022 so uh we will follow at the next meeting about this thank you hi there Beth Brian to Hancock Street the last time we met with the last time you had a city council meeting uh was the evening before you were to be meeting with the judge and then was mayor andoun I'm wondering what transpired from that meeting the judge was sympathetic to our explanation of what's been brought to light on site and if he's sympathetic to us in allowing us to move in a different direction and giving us the opportunity to come up with an alternate plan and what's been proposed uh I'm just not going to make any comment about the the meeting with the judge uh and the court master I don't that's uh I don't think that's the right this is the right time to do that uh there is there there are things that are happening um but I can't speak to those right now I would just remind everyone too that uh there there's an ongoing process here where um if we are going to have to adjust this plan we're going to have to renegotiate with fair share and I think it would not be a good idea to make public comments that would affect the process for it um I can tell you just from my perspective um you know it was a was an engaging meeting I think that the judge uh you know and the special master um you know heard what we were saying and um you know there's a process to this and um we also got to remember that public comment might not help that process too so um I think at the appropriate time when we can make uh an update I certainly want to do that I appreciate appreciate that very much thank you Che Chef title 33 Wilson Street just want to start off since it's the third anniversary of Ida which is this important date in our history and and it's the 49th anniversary of when lady bir Johnson came town to go up on the commons which is now con Hill because it was part of the war on Pro poverty 49 years later it still is it's been the most neglected part of this town when we were coming to town and we looking for a place to live the realate wouldn't even take us up there it's been an area that has been exploited it's been dumped on uh garbage dump that has no limits but we don't know where it ends or begins U the factory at the old school and The Dumping that occurred there and the waste that's there and now this massive project that would destroy that neighborhood forever and I think you know it's a time to reflect on all of that because one if we build up on that mountain and it's steep slopes and we get rid of all those forests we're not going to be able to control that water uh we have contamination up there we don't know the extent not been shared records as far as I know from the property owner um we know there's posos and Wells at fairly high level nearby uh we don't know what else is up there and the point that I'm making is all these things coming together says that's why it's absolutely the wrong place to build portable housing or any major development in this town when you look at um the fact that if there is Maj if there is contamination up there they're going to have to come up with cleanup plan they're going to have to get they have to approve it they're going to have to carry it out they're going have to remediate it and and can they even remediate to a residential standard we have no idea because we don't know the limits of the portion or what's up there that alone should be a reason to go to the judge to basically say the site is inappropriate and every day we come up with more whether it's the traffic patterns up there and the dangerous intersections and the narrow roads it's whether it's can we even hook it into our storm system to bring water to the river most likely not because our system doesn't work now um you know you go through all the different pieces then we have to trust of Manan who gave an ultimatum how do you negotiate with ultimatum then they also have a terrible record on storm water I was involved with the lwuit with UA now we have Michaels with their whole legal problem every day seems to be more reasons why we have to come up with an alternative and so while you're negotiating with the judge you're talking to the judge you should also be looking at potential Alternatives because if we get the okay to do it we need to do it quickly because as we all know we have a little over a year to try to get a good plan in place and to be able to move forward with affordable housing provide that reasonable opportunity to build that housing which is desperately needed in this town but we have to do it in an environmentally sound way we have to be able to do it in way that um that furthers the interest and goals of this community I I think on that mountain it's too big it's the wrong place it's the wrong time it's too damaging and so now is a chance to try to make to fix that we cannot keep and I think the lesson from Lady bir Johnson and 49 years ago is we can't keep making the same mistakes the past you know we have to take care of that Community we have to fix the problem with the contaminated R thank you Sean Ellis 21 beler oh I'm sorry did you want everybody's um yeah I think I I want to pick up on where Jeff left off there because um you know uh when we talk about resiliency we had that the workshop the resiliency workshop and um all the focus was on storm water and uh and flooding and right now now a whole neighborhood is going through a crisis and um we're told that it's up to the individual homeowners um I couldn't imagine if that was what we told people who experienced a flood um but that's what we're being told and uh we're being told we might want to contact the County we might want to contact the DP well there is no contact for the DP we you know I I I I sent a spill fund claim in about a month ago just about a month ago uh I know that they received it because it was certified mail no response no acknowledgement no call no anything you try to reach them on the email contact email they provide bounces back you try to call them on that I've tried so many times same recorded message I'm sorry we're not available to take your call we have no one other than ourselves and I am just completely completely baffled at that you know when I was filling out the resiliency survey the other day at how much of a slap in the face that really is um because I think Jeff had it right you know people on that Hill are not treated the same as the people downtown it seems um and I want to see that change um I also um would would love to you know if there are any updates Cindy I know you said it would take a long time I don't expect you to have a lot but I'm G to be asking you a lot um and so if there's any updates on you know uh you know grants or or progress with getting water up the hill um I'd love to hear about it uh and I I last thing I want to say is I respect the process that you're going through with the judge and I don't want to be premature in doing anything that could you know create negative consequences or put us in a bad position um but I do agree with Jeff that that at the right appropriate time needs to that the LHS site needs to be taken off of the um affordable housing uh plan because um 200 units it's just not going to happen and it can't happen and if they're not willing to negotiate on that it's we'll just wait for the day when to pull that when yank that I guess um but I I would encourage you to do that as soon as possible so um um I would just say Sean I I agree you know when you bring up the uh you know the comparison to the flood um you know people that didn't get flooded out they helped the people that did and uh you know I think that do more um you know uh I I think if you can continue to send us a lot of the environmental issues that will help and uh you know I'm happy to make phone calls to people I know at the at the d uh that would help out as well I don't know there's many people there but I do know a couple and I'm happy to make this phone call yeah we have we have six total positive tests all all the tests have been positive one in westw 5 and Lambertville so far and I they're coming in every week I just say that it would be helpful have that that information because the last count I had was two so if people are able to send their test results to the city I think that would be enormously helpful we can then send those to the DP we have a contact with the DP we can also send them to the county so I would encourage people uh and we did send out a letter today I think it was today or yesterday uh to every private well owner in the city encouraging them to get test of giving them some resources and letting them know that we're here for informational purposes at you know at a minimum so uh please encourage those people to send their results directly to me I have five of the six I'll try to get the all also too just to mention you know the last council meeting people that can't afford to to fix this too they should be reaching out to us so we can talk about seeing how we can help that because okay may I just like to mention that um it's concerning that citizens are sending in information to a black hole in DDP and if there's anything that we can do you know to kind of rattle their chain and say get us the right contacts what's the process you know what's the right phone number it's it's really disheartening to hear that mail emails bounc back there's no telephone support well so I have a contact I can't remember the person's name I spoke to somebody at the D and I'm sure you know who I spoke to but I have her email and she's asked me to have uh you know was sent and then you know she sent us all the resources which we distributed to right but I I think at this point Sean we've been talking you fill out the rest of that he Sean has a great Excel spreadsheet of of the results because you know I'm still pursuing some type of you know answer you know gation in the courts but I think it's Megan Brady in the commissioner's office and we really you know need to be able to say look the number's growing we need more than the links I mean look we also have these drums that are buried up there that are outside of the the um the the landfill area that like you know I'd like to be able to alert them to and you know start getting some more um action from the Department on it I think that our urgency would be more of their urgency so um we're moving beyond like that it's just a private well issue that it's a Community you know environmental issue that um I think it's time we push them on so right well I think we need we we need to report that officially and and you know and kind of you know move ahead on some things Doug we uh got Doug here no no not that you're but but you know we we really need to you know get with our Prof professional and pursue this I I'm totally there thank you all right before we move on I'm just gonna ask Cindy this might be a good time for you to give an update on the Triad and anything else you want to so the city has a grant it's an old Grant from the state of New Jersey called small cities and so um it took us some time to get confirmation that we could use that funding but um we have that available and that would pay for test the testing to be done and also any uh remediation or mitigation that needs to be done but that is for people who income qualified right how much money do we have in that account um about over 200,000 I believe this is recaptured funds so we got this grant back in the 70s and 80s for people to to um upgrade their home they needed a roof or whatever but again you have to income qualify um so I do um we will have an application we'll have the process and so it just encourage anybody to reach out to me and I'll help you through we'll need to fill out the the application we'll need to gather I think it's three years of IRS statements I mean there'll be things that you have to do but I'm happy to help you through it and then we'll scan it and get it off to them but we can use that for that we did confirm that today and the other only other thing I want to say mayor was we when we pulled that list of property owners We Believe have wells it was we we included con Hill Cottage Hill Music Mountain because somebody at last meeting said that it was across the board so we sent that out to everybody but there could be somebody in town who is still on a well that we're not aware of so if you are please reach out to me um and I'm I'm happy to be the conduit it um You can call you can email me uh whatever and we'll we'll make it a priority May did I miss anything oh thank you thanks for all your work on us sorry just one about well it was confirmed yesterday to me that was number two stord street that came positive for those and as soon as I get line back from being tested report to the council and about 100 Jennifer Town Street um so first I just want to thank the neighbors that have been great in supporting us and communicating and asking chop rate for water and really caring for our neighbors because it's you guys that make our community which is amazing so from the bottom of my heart thank you to everybody for all of that I really appreciate I appreciate the the council meeting with us talking to us having good conversation um but again my my you know statement I always make we're a community 200 houses is a development doesn't fit you know where we live just not so that was the first secondly I want to support what the other gentleman initially said about making this a two-way conversation um I agree about having limits parameters around it but there have been so many comments that have come up that I just keep adding notes to and I'm way too add to like keep it in order that it's not going to make sense so I don't think we could really we can have better communication if we communicate to um we had our wi tested today so hopefully we'll have results soon and we'll share that as soon as we do um question about the the um Grant the income qualify what is the income that you know I don't know off hand because there's low income and moderate okay um that right s oh and then just the other thing my personal opinion I feel most of the council most of the folks up here have been supportive of questioning the 200 houses questioning that many developments um and I know this is going to sound offensive and I'm apologizing to you mayor for that it feels like you're not you know we don't make public we don't make individual comments to individual people no not individual people in a hole when you speak everyone says oh that's concerning yes we need to look into that I personally feel this way and I just don't feel that way and that just makes me feel less cared about by our city I guess like that the mayor doesn't I'm GNA ask you not to make remarks about an individual on the day like I said I didn't want to insult you but I'm just sharing my feelings about how it feel being a Community member that's all I that's all um I really appreciate what you guys are doing and sharing all this and having these conversations but I just like to make sure we're heard that's all and supported thank you appreciate your time Paul 3940 love this discussion tonight so far has reminded me back to been in June when I got up and we talking about this development and I was suggesting that we need it was a good time to start thinking about uh working with our partners in West andw well because this is going to affect their residents up there also um and even the day after I thought about how that could uh help us even more even more than the storm water but um also you know eventually trying to explain that if we decide not to do this project up there or anything like it in the future um that we're going to need good justification we're going to be because of like you said fair share housing the judge and all of this we're there's a sword over us right now frankly and um going having West am as an ally in this and having them speak out both to the D now and potentially if we need their support when we go back to fair share housing or the judge or whatever saying this is a real issue up here in terms of storm water but also now all of this unknown with uh the the environmental aspects of the site um and I actually went back and I I could be here on uh the August 15th one and I went back I listen recording and somebody else came up and was asking you if you reached out to West Amon you said you hadn't um even though I shared this with you at uh in Mary Sheridan Park about look they could be an ally for us in all of this you know the court case and everything else um you mentioned that yes you would be reaching out to them I'm wonder if you have yet you thought about you know what you want to talk to them about uh just trying to gather some more support outside of just Lambertville because this is a bigger issue thank you I'll just say a version what I said last time uh I haven't reached out to West Dell I think it's kind of premature uh in terms of the the high school Redevelopment area plan um and uh when such a time is appropriate I think I'll be happy to reach out I've talked to one of their Council people recently about stor water issues um but uh you know until such time as something moves forward and we have something to talk about uh I don't see the need to to reach out specifically to talk about something that hasn't that hasn't happened and was still in process um Suzanne Davis 8 Grand Avenue and about West dwell in my meetings with people and all the information nobody's really heard too much about this project and it will affect them because of the traffic nothing else um what I want to say is that I moved to Conan Hill about 25 years ago and there were parts of it that probably were not so different than what Lady Bird describe you know people were living in all kinds of marginal situations um there was a feral cat colony which eventually was cleaned up there the place was overrun with cats um there were tires you know dumped all over I think uh we even had a tire clean up one day but we went we took all the tires and my ex-mother-in-law reported that um she lived up in Calon that they had gathered a group of women together at one point to go down to Conan Hill to teach the women there how to wash so it was very it was a very marginal kind of a place to be now coming up um all of us I think on con and Hill have worked very hard in our properties you know we really tried to bring the neighborhood up we've done a lot of work um you know we taken away there was a crack house up above where I live that was gone now you know so we have like a lot of good neighbors we have a wonderful neighborhood people are always out working on their properties and trying to bring things up and I just really want to say that this project will devastate the whole neighborhood and I hope that you take that into consideration you know in your future negotiations with the state uh Judy gleon 86 North Union Street um a couple of things based on what the agenda is and what people have said so far uh first on the agenda the storm water discussion um I look through the amendment I will I will say first it's very difficult to see what is being amended I mean maybe I just having worked in this area in much of my professional life I'm used to being able to tell what's being amended I couldn't I couldn't so I'm guessing it might be difficult for others as well but I will say that when you guys are looking at this and when we're talking about it later I guess just reread the policy paragraph because it really is pretty clear and low impact development is part of what our is and yes green stuff and various things you know rain Gardens and stuff but we're talking about a situation we all know from Ida and other rainstorms it's way bigger than green infrastructure rain garden stuff and we need to be looking at something besides how can we come up with 40 low income houses when we're talking about low impact development we're not doing low impact development in the very area where storm water is a huge issue so I'm just asking that whatever we talk about today in the discussion period And whatever people tell us about how this is working so well I just want to tell you we don't think it's working that well and perhaps you could read your policy statement again and see what we're supposed to be doing secondly on the affordable housing issue and the fact that you can't share what you've talked to the judge about and I get that but fair share is in this with us they're not in this against us we should be aware of the fact that many times working with other organizations means you need to work with the other organizations and some of what fair share said back in 2019 I think it was maybe 2020 when they were saying representations that had been made to them by the city about areas like on Delan areas like uh where where we now have the however many houses down by the yat they had been told that our people resisted lowincome housing and that's why we didn't do it well we know that's not true and every time it comes up you know it's not true people in this town would rather have low-income housing or or affordable housing I guess is the correct word that more than anything so I think it's not a bad idea for you to think about bringing in the people who are not against us we're all trying to get we are all trying to get to the same place so if you can possibly sort of reread your own stuff it might be helpful thank you anybody online motion to close public comment pleas one com uh I know historically the hill has not been a priority however uh Delio uh did the last major change up there you may cleaning up the tires going through and making sure that there were property owners and uh for existing Lots up there and through that effort and we also put drainage up on the hill um during that time period um and we were able to there clear up some Lots in order to sell them and combine slivers of lots into one big lot so they could be marketed and that brought habitat up there where they built to I believe on C uh actually habitat I want to say four or five so you know the blanket statement is a blanket statement I'm just saying that just keep in mind that there have been efforts to upgrade Services up on the hill is there more things we can do absolutely you know we were Dave's Administration you know we created the park up on the hill as well so um the blanket that we don't do anything I mean I I personally could take it but uh I was there I know we did some things maybe you know we address those going forward but we actually made an effort to get things cleaned up up on theill and you absolutely I mean we did a whole Redevelopment plan um that helped to clear the title so people could build and and um the tire clean up one of the things um Mr Ellis had asked me to do some research on it I have you go back to the minutes starting back in I want to say 1999 and I started earmarking the minutes with a certain color tab but everything that was done up on ConEd Hill um so the governing body in the past has invested time and money in projects to uh help with the you know they didn't have sewer only had sewer that so you did sewer we did storm water um yes we did the small pocket park up there um there were cleanup efforts um there was a lot really done over I want to say a 10year period of time yeah and I also remind people that since I've been mayor we've repaved Washington Street which haven't been paided probably in 30 years we also repaved Grant Allen in Coral road so uh we've done some work in just the last three years well a second please all in favor please say I I thank you right we're going to move into a uh discussion really a presentation uh of the stormm water Control Ordinance um which is currently before the city uh for Amendment and adoption just couple notes about this uh um if everything is fine with this tonight uh this will hopefully go to the planning board on September 18th if they are able to have a forum uh and uh for their review I we come back to the council for um a second reading and public on September 19th um we have sent this to the county uh and I did get a letter from the state this week asking why we haven't done this um and so I had to we've been working on it diligently uh and kind of explain layout the process at this point so um Doug R is here the city engineer he's been instrumental in uh working with us on this ordinance and really kind of drafting it uh using different you know researching what other IP ales are doing uh here in the State uh and really kind of tackling uh the ordinance to make it the stricter ordinance than the boiler plate ordinance that was sent to us from the DP so uh dou sent a memo around back in I think August 19th 's here tonight to just kind of walk us through the ordinance and the proposed changes uh of the ordinance and answering questions that the cers have so uh without further Ado as they say I'm just going to turn it over to you Doug to just begin to kind of talk a little bit about what the ordinance seeks to do generally and uh you know maybe just highlight a couple of the key elements uh of the boiler plate from the state and then how uh our you know how this amended how this ordinance uh seeks to uh improve upon the state standards thank you Mr Mayor um I'll start by saying the this ordinance is ordinance number 62024 It's actually an Orin to amend Article 15 of the storm water management which is actually part of the zoning ordinance it's section 1500 of the zoning ordinance and so this is as the mayor stated uh this is actually taking place at this point in time due to uh Municipal separate storm sewer system which is ms4 tier a permitting requirements uh the state has required that all uh tier a permits that they have to update their storm waterer management ordinances and so the state had provided a model ordinance called the storm water Control Ordinance that was provided to all the municipalities to basically as a as a starting point so what I had done is taken that model ordinance and first I compared it to the city's current ordinance and in doing so there I noticed that there were items that were uh not in the model ordinance that I wanted to ensure were kept in the city's ordinance uh such as Redevelopment projects Redevelopment projects did not appear to be uh talked about or discussed in the model ordinance however we the city already had uh requirements for redevelopment projects so that way Redevelopment projects would also have to do storm water management and um another item was actually an item that was approved by Council last year which was for private storm drain Inlet retrofitting um that was an entire section of the ordinance that was adopted by the city as part of ordinance number 14-223 so those are two of the main items that right off the bat I wanted to make sure were put back into the ordinance utilizing the model ordinance next I then U there were items that I know were uh quite important to the city such as minor development the city wanted to ensure currently that the city ordinance does not really speak of a minor development so we wanted to ensure that there were now regulations placed on minor development that for people who may not understand yeah I'm and so um that those types of feature or that those types of items what I then did was look at other municipalities ordinances in order to be able to not rewrite the book and find out how other municipalities were handling uh issues again such as the the minor development which I'll explain what it is as well as like on-site retention volume and other some other items and so I looked at such ordinances as Jersey City and Princeton they have probably two of the more stricter ordinances in the state so I looked at both of theirs um I also utilized the new New Jersey future enhanced model ordinance uh what New Jersey future what they did was they took the state's model ordinance and as it as the title States they enhanced it uh they utilized um what new features and new requirements they feel should be started to be included in ordinances moving forward throughout the entire state so I also utilize that ordinance as well as um comments from the gentleman that was here from The Watershed Institute uh I don't know if anyone was here for that meeting that was maybe three months ago two two to three months ago um I had also looked at comments uh made by that gentleman and tried to also incorporate them into this this final ordinance that is before council tonight and so to go through some of those items I'll start with the minor development um what while currently the ordinance has in it is a major development so major development we had actually revised the requirements and we lowered them so that way major developments currently you need uh for disturbance for the disturbance requirement portion it used to require only if you were uh one half of an acre or more did you of disturbance would you fall within a major development so we lowered that to a quarter acre or more so instead of a half acre now it's down to a quarter acre so if there's at least a quarter acre of disturbance within the site then it falls under a major development um also for the creation of impervious surfaces it used to be at one quarter of an acre for the creation of impervious surfaces we reduced that down to 4,000 square feet so now any project that has a minimum of 4,000 square ft of of Imperia surface being created they now fall the category of a major development so by doing that um then we created the minor development category a minor development is so for the disturbance of land this one the minor development goes from a th000 square feet up to the quarter acre that would be required for a major development uh the creation of impervia surface it's from 400 square feet up to the 4,000 square feet for a major develop that would kick you into a major development um so those are the that's the new category is a minor development and those are the requirements that you would have to meet in order to fall within a minor development uh category so then uh another item that was added back in was uh mitigation actually that was an item that did not appear in the model ordinance but was in the city's um current ordinance and mitigation is basically if for any reason due to existing site features if storm order cannot be done on that lot now we're talking typically about smaller Lots not large scale projects uh subdivisions and all they will definitely have to meet all requirements but if somebody wants to put in a an addition to their home or on a quarter acre lot um and the property just does not allow for any type of storware system to be installed there uh there is options to mitigate existing City store order systems in order to help offset that additional impervious that's been added um so I wanted to make sure that that requirement was placed back into uh this ordinance um another so we added to the ordinance uh the to preserve and maintain the city of lamberville stream Corridor on each side of a Waterway um that's one of the titles in the one section uh basically we want to make sure that the stream card of the several waterways within the city that they are preserved and maintained um and there's an section of the ordinance specifically discussing that requirement um there is another section so there's also a whole section of the order section 1500.4 point1 which talks about the requirements for a minor development as I explain what the requirements are to fall within minor development that section actually is the requirements that You' have to meet as part of a minor development there's also one of the things that we added was about uh field testing we wanted to make sure so we amended the field testing section in order to require uh field testing for all stor motar bmps within a site before and after construction because we want to make sure that during I should say before and during construction so before a what they call storm water BMP a best management practice so such as a basin a rain Garden an underground seage bed before one of them would be installed the contractor would have to excavate to the bottom of that system and an infiltration test would be conducted in order to ensure that where that system is being placed the infiltration rates are compatible to what was originally designed for so that the system functions the way it was designed um a lot of times in construction as much as we try to regulate where the contractor is allowed to move his equipment there's always times when they drive over areas that are designated for infiltration and the whole is not TOA the ground in that area so we want to be sure that once it's once the system is excavated down to where it needs to be we want to make sure it's going to actually infiltrate function the way it was designed so that's one of the items that were added back in um we also had uh we amended the one section related to the precipitation so that there is a precip what they call precipitation adjustment Factor uh basically that's to account for future increase in rainfall amounts so it's actually a percentage that is tacked on to the current Noah rainfall uh data that the city has um you do a it's like uh I forget the exact percentage but there's a percentage ta like 5% of an increase to that rainfall amount so that it accounts for future heavier rainfall amounts um because as we all know as time goes on it seems like rain is getting p rainfall amounts are getting larger and larger so this will at least help account for some of that future rainfall amount instead of just designing for today um and then one of the new sections that I had noted was on-site retention volum uh that was something that was noted both in the New Jersey future as well as by The Watershed Institute it's a requirement that the state is uh planning on trying to push more and more for a lot of the new ordinances that are coming about and basically what that means is that for the SES uh 1.25 inches of rainfall that occurs in two hours that has to that that volume has to be held on site and retained so kept on site until it physically uh drains back into the soil so it until it infiltrates back into the soil so that's what your seat pit beds do um that's that's what some of the that's what rain Gardens are designed to do even with the driveways a lot of every as everybody knows there's a lot of driveways in town that are for p um that's exactly what all of them are really meant to do it's onsite retentions to retain the runoff onsite and have it naturally infiltrate back into the ground um so that's a new section to this ordinance um and then we amended the section for okay we about that one and then we also uh we added to the ordinance to specify the requirements for submission of a site development stormw plan for a minor development so what the requirements would be when you have to make a submission for a minor development what all the requirements would be we have a new section related to that and uh and uh we amended to include the submission of an annual report to the city uh so as part of the new ms4 requirements the state is requiring that any property owner or um storm waterer BMP owner that they are to do uh I believe it's actually now twice a year they're supposed to do an inspection of their onsite storm water management features and those inspections are supposed to be reported and that or basically a form would be completed that would be be provided by the city and the property are would complete that form and that form will be submitted to the city on like I say a biannual basis and those reports get included in the city's annual storm order report that is submitted to the state so that the state can see that the city is maintaining um all of their storm water bmps throughout throughout the city so that is a new requirement that was added into this ordinance at this point I believe that is all of the major amendments that have taken place to the or it's a lot it's a lot and uh I have to say I'm pleased with how this has evolved we've had a lot of conversations about this and uh star is a huge concern we talk about it all the time um we wanted to find a way to include minor development in in the ordinance uh we we did look at a couple of examples Princeton uh has what I would describe as something that is very intensive and uh very uh requires a lot of uh support and manpower to kind of inspect twice a year and maintain and and a lot of their from are um to as measures will travel with the property right so de restricted so you know we're trying to find a middle ground uh and yet still have some fairly strict and uh comprehensive attention in in all categories um maybe just for by way of example say somebody wanted to build a deck uh on their property that was 20 by 20 which is 400 square feet what what would that process look like just kind of walk us through it just for example say uh so so because it be 400 square feet that would fall within the minor development and so there are very specific set of calc of um requirements such as uh the retention the ons slate retention volume um rate control and so you would have to demonstrate that the the BM so you would you would end up having to install a storm order BMP such as a rain guard or an airation uh or a seage bed I should say or what a lot of applicants have now started installing is their driveways they're using permeable pavers or porest asphalt for the driveways and are putting 12 to 24 in thick Stone beds underneath that capture the water so basically what you would just have to demonstrate is that the runoff from that deck area that you're proposing um that with the storm order BMP that you're proposing that your runoff in the post-development is equal to or less than in the pre-development um those are and so there's there would be an application uh for that and um try to say that anything you do uh in the city now is going to require you to really think about how serious you are about doing that and in terms of what what you're going to need to do to do the you know complete the BMP which is best management correct and like I said there there's there's several uh uh viable options that many have used and that like I said permeable papers uh the porest asphalt so they do that for the driveway so we've had situations where it was just a new driveway being installed and the new driveway was large enough that uh it it actually met the the threshold for stor M management so they just made their whole driveway the poorest papers or or the porest asphalt and so they were able to meet the requirement and still got their driveway and they were able to do it all with the construction ad just that driveway uh rain Gardens is another feature um the only down the only thing you have to keep in mind with that is once a rain Gard is installed it is a permanent feature to to the lot so it's not one like if you get Tire of a garden in the future you can't remove it uh and just to just just correspondingly you know this is going to require the city to increase uh kind of Staffing hours at some point that we're going to be talking more about the ms4 ti a permit uh later in the year when we talk about personnel and the need to uh to increase oversight GE in the city it's a lot uh for the staff to go out and do these inspections twice a year even on single family properties we have a number of single family properties that have you know systems uh that have to be inspected so um you know with increased regulation obviously comes corresponding needs to provide support in terms of resources personel kind of thing so are there any questions from the council about the Ordinance one if you could explain a little bit about two things uh one was about if uh home property owner cannot do something on their property they pay a fee and then that goes to the city to storm water management assist with a regional storm water management system so one that would either be under controll by the city um so they what they refer to a regional so some a lot of times you have a basin that takes not just maybe one development or a few homes but it will take an entire portion of a municipality um and so it's it's those types of systems which usually is the regional that's what the mitigations to go to but at the same time we can also help with any of the city's uh storm water um bmps or features that may be in and around throughout the city so at this point are there fees connected there are are there fees connected to applications yet for this and for enforcement and will they be structured in a way that hopefully the fees to do these will pay for the professional fee that go go with us as we have done with Planning and Zoning for if fees have been talked about I was not part of that discussion so at the current moment I'm not aware of any fees associated with this that I believe is just a discussion still needs to take place and uh second question is does this handle sheet flow at all from a neighbor's house where water trespasses onto someone else's property does that trigger I know this is about new disturbances but how do we handle so the only items that would need to be um handled or controlled should say is the new impervious that would be getting installed on that specific lot if you have a situation where you have offsite runoff that is flowing through a property um it does not need to be controlled it just needs to be conveyed properly through the site that makes sense and that's if there's no work done I'm just talking about there may be existing properties who who are downhill and and you know are are PR to get sheap flow and run off onto the property that's uncontrolled if there's no work currently being done then there would be no no requirements that would have to be met good so uh if the schedule goes uh we i' like it to go uh this heard the planning board meeting uh in September and uh um second reading public second reading public hearing will be scheduled for SE September 19 C we can schedule it for that and if we need to carry it because the planning board doesn't have forum and then you just make that motion somebody would make that motion at the September 19th session to carry it to the October so the next step is pardon me in here is this is already we already introduced this correct and so are we G to proceed now yeah this was just I don't know if anybody has any questions in the audience at well we have a public hearing uh at the end and certainly uh if anybody wants to uh so that's what I thought we were going to do but uh so the planning board won't see this until it's introduced we've already introduced it yeah so the next step will be for this to go to the planning board and then for their review dou will explain it all again um and then we back to the council for uh consideration for adoption and you said the planning board is on the 19th is on the 18th um there's a potential quum issue um so if planning board does not meet um because of the quum issue then we will let everybody know now what that looks like planning board is not able to meet on the 18th we I will seek to uh carry this on the 19th to the council meeting on 17th of October so the planning board on the 16th has a meeting on the 16th of October when it could review this if it can't meet in September and then we would take it up council meeting for next evening Doug thank you very much for your time appreciate it just a followup question I'm concerned that everyone knows what the process is here is that if the planning board cannot do this on the day before our next meeting then there's no there's no action we're going to take well there's action would be we would have to carry it yeah that's the only action because they're not going to do it in one day well the planning board has to review it right and they have to if there's any concern at planning board level for example then we would carry it until such points have been addressed um right moving on uh lead paint certification updates so um have a brief discussion uh Lindsay is going to tell us a little bit about a potential contract with LW environmental for Le rental properties in the [Music] city the requirement for rental properties to be tested for Le Fe went into effect in July and there have been a couple different municipalities local that I've spoken with that have contracted with blue environmental to help them process the lead certification results sorry EXC me if you could one person if you'd like to speak please go out to the into the the other room it's important for everybody to hear what's happening thank you and Lou has been helping them to also submit the results to the DCA which is one of the requirements that we now have to meet um our current process is landlords submit their Le results to me every which way and it's a bit hard to manage because we have to track them down for payment we have to track them down to give them their compliance certificate we have to submit the results to the DCA and we have to track it for whether it's going to be good forever for two years for three years um and they expire every month so it's a very labor intensive process the proposed contract with Lou um there's no fee to to the municipality and in exchange for being kind of designated the city's designated lead inspection f um they will handle all of the submission of the results to the DCA and they'll also manage all of the expirations in a portal that we always have access um it would take a big load off of off of our office and I don't really see any downside in in Contracting with them um especially because other municipalities local to us have already done it and they haven't had any complaints basically how it would work is the homeowner the property owner still has the choice to use any lead inspector to do their inspection it's not like they're forced to use our guide um but Lou would offer a flat rate inspection fee that would include their inspection fee the DCA required State fee as well as any Municipal fee that we would want to include they would collect all of the money and submit the DCA fee for us to submit to them on a monthly basis um so that's that's pretty much how it would go how many rentals are we worried about with this that are actually discussing is going on so it's required of every rental we probably have of the the ones that we have registered we probably have about a third that have submitted this testing already and just as a rough estimate can you let us know how much time for week you think this is taking up for you it's significant um in addition to processing all of the landlord um which takes probably about an hour for application this is probably another half hour and it's going to be on a rolling basis whereas Le hopefully will be a little more contained in the first few months of the year this is going to be continual throughout the year and my last question all the information that they would be collecting you said there's a portal that you guys would have access if people had question that you could easily access those materials yes we we have approximately 276 landlord applications and I think 46 or 47 short-term rentals most of the short-term rentals are less than 18 days so they don't need to do this but landlords do all of them do we're down to 25 who have not fed and the contract that they're proposing how long term is that we didn't discuss the term um when I was talking with the owner but I would consider maybe if we could do it for the next three months till the end of the year and then consider renewing it in January for a year and that would be done just by resolution September 19 correct sounds good to me it's a win-win um because you know if you think about just uh 30 minutes per application but then you have to think about now you got to go in and manually look for everybody who lead has expired that's that's a heavy load so this would be uh and and as part of this we would have to amend our fee schedule because right now we're charging $100 for us to do all of this and people are like well I'm paying somebody you know to to actually do the test why do I have to pay you $100 well because we have to go in and pull that information and then upload it to the state and uh $100 previously probably was not enough but um I think what we should do is take go with Lou and then the next couple of months kind of take a look at what are we is it really CAU taking of our time time and amend the the schedule accorded maybe it'll be less do we have a CRM system at all in the city customer relations M no unfortunately every Department uses kind of a different thing you have the tax collector and finance who are using Edmonds you have the tax assessor who's using a new brt which is a terrible system but that's what the picked um and then we have we kind of manage our things using Excel sdl we use um and that is like for our online portal but there's no way to easily extract that data and use that to send out a mass email or to send out a mass mailing we are really always creating our own we should uh think about that going forward that may make a lot how much or how much it cost but typically CR are very large projects um for the for if you just take the simple example that Cindy just mentioned um you have the tax assessor that looks at it as a a customer is one thing you have um you know the the landlord is is a different animal each department each entity within the organization tends to look at differently Define a customer differently so there are there are software packages that do that I don't know how small they scale um my guess is probably not very small because they tend to be for large complex organizations so that's like what like you think like Salesforce does right and that's a really big um really big provider so and they and they tend to be um because they're so flexible they tend to be relatively um labor intensive on the administrative end because you're always looking at parameters and configuration and you know yeah it's complicated it's yeah yeah we had one where I worked and uh was had many more than 4,000 people so I just was wondering if there was there was a system that could be SC down that could pull a report you can identify certain fields to like like you are Exel I'm not thinking about you know having report to or the police department just just to manage all of the reports that that you guys on a regular basis of me and it's a little bit more sophisticated than Excel sheet but right um we actually had had taken a look at some of these things back when we were doing dog licensing trying to figure that out and it just the the there was no cost benefit to doing it it was just such an outrageous price to purchase that Software System to manage 300 dog licenses or you know 276 landlord it just and nothing integrated right so that's why we've reverted to using Excel and it seems to you we can do a mail merge we can do a lot with that so uh moving on we're going talk about food license requirements [Music] so so um recently we have more uh food truck vendors coming into our community for different events you see them at the lamber station you see them across the street um and a people doing that sometimes even for a party they're having a fedra well they have to be licensed and so that requires an inspection from the county it requires an inspection from the fire department depending on how they heat the food so um this brought up different categories for us and um if you actually take a look at what is in the meeting folder we had to amend uh some of the um definitions um so you'll see that you have a food truck and you have a mobile vendor because the were operating and they don't have a food truck but they have a table and they're selling their we there so we tried to take what we had existing and update it so that it would be more in line with what we're doing today so we had food truck vendors the price was $95 for three days um maybe they'd be here but it had to be three consecutive days so maybe they'd be here for Festival but maybe they wouldn't be here the rest of the year or the laml station may have them maybe once a month so that meant $95 every time they went to the L station so we're trying to figure out a way to to better Define this to help us with food categories because depending on the category you're in it tells you whether you have to have the Serve Safe license to actually give the food so so we went through and Lindsay and I tried to amend this using some of the criteria we had from the County Board of Health um and you know you'll see new language you'll see we talk out out old language and um basically we revised the whole um risk type instead of doing category one we did risk type one because that's what kicks in the fee that's what kicks in the requirement for um in inspections and then it also would help us address the food trucks or the mobile trucks so that's what you'll see when you look at it that's all you TR does that make sense did I leave anything out so if it's if it's a multiple event aren't they inspected every every morning or every day after they set up before they sell no not always typically the count that's what the county to do yeah and so what we do is prior to and the county has redefined their food trucks events as well um so it seems that once the county inspects a food truck they don't need to be reinspected for that the ter a certain ter but the fire the fire do does occur every time the truck moves you said there's a risk that something could go loose and become dangerous that's actually separate from the food license so that's why you won't see the fire addressed in that okay so that's what we're we're proposing some of these changes so we can meet with current need maybe be a little bit more friendly to people who are coming into our community um and also um the late fees um we you'll see that we um amend them a little bit because to be honest um it takes a lot of time to do this and uh we're into September now and we're still chasing one company we're down to one company and that expired May 31st so it takes a lot you there's a lot of communications mailings and phone calls and emails that go out um and you know we honestly could be spending our time doing other things let main certifications for more grants that's right looking for more Grant that's a better answer thank you um appreciate that okay moving on uh so we've had a proposal to uh to look at potentially doing a bike rental program here in the city um uh Big Bear gear out on River Road has been interested in potentially you know starting a pilot program uh in Lambertville for something like a city bike program in a major city right where you have they would start with maybe dozen bikes somewhere at a rack in the city and and there would be an app that you could use to rent the bike unlock it and uh and then return to that spot so been gone back and forth with um uh Michael Aaron right since about uh first back I think in March um so there's been a lot of questions back and forth about where where such a program you know where we might host such a program if we were willing to host it questions about insurance all kinds of questions um and I just wanted to take the council's temperature uh on you know potentially looking at this uh seriously we haven't really had a conversation about it um but uh I think it's an interesting proposal uh certainly biking in lamberville I do it every day except the Dead Winter um big proponent of deer cars and more pedestrians and more bicyclist um and so you know you've all probably read the The Proposal and uh if you have any questions i' be happy to answer them but you know I'll start by saying that I think it's a I personally think it's a good idea I have not been able to kind of find a space in you know out in the city um that I that I've locked into in terms of where this might be well suited we talked about potentially looking at the parks um uh you know B park or or um the Cherry Street park I think the idea would be to put something more centrally located at least initially so that people could actually see the bikes and want to ride them so you know one of the one of the questions that we would have to consider is where could we put a rack or two to you know to get such a program up running there was six bikes in two locations or 12 bikes in one location so just want to open this up to some some thoughts from the council and sort of see where it goes to start uh I think it's a interesting idea um you know I I don't really see any downside to it they're they're the ones doing all the infrastructure and paying for the bikes and you know they just need a place for a bike so hope that we could find something for that um I know that I don't know if we have any space in the north Med parking lot um if that would be a viable spot I don't want to take any parking spaces but I don't know if there's any extra space behind the benches or anything um but yeah I think it's a good idea uh you know and it seems like they are getting insurance for that too which is good so some gets hurt coverage for that too so I like it yeah maybe at either end of town might be more appropriate than midle I I don't know you know especially for people want to get on the get on the Toe Path U but bikes are good you know um scooters motorized scooters whole different stor so you know but bikes you know it might be a great alternative for people who don't know who come tourists who come to town on a bike don't know how to get one but I'm not quite sure how all this is working I'm not gonna ask yeah I think you know they'd have to go the big bear hey right there they put on an app thing and go to the bike you're checking on the app and then you're off hopefully yeah you know we just have to be keeping an eye on the bikes bike doesn't back right the bike doesn't come back the bike is vandalized it's not our right all we're doing is committing to offering bik I just like to do it where there's a lot of room yeah you know have excuse me have they contacted um lamberville Station lamberville House I asked them to contact lamberville station and I'd have to look back through the emails because initially you know I talked to Mar Bor at the parks and R and we had some conversations about what this might look like in cavala park or Cherry Street Park and you know we had some conversation and I went back to Michael at Big Bear and said you know I like this idea but you might if you really want something Central maybe you check in at the lamberville station and I don't know whether they did but came back to me now in August several months later and you know sort of uh expressed his interest again and they've been specifically asking if you probably with lfi station um and these bikes would be in these racks [Music] for weeks yeah sorry they they would have bikes in the racks all the time yeah there would be a do they would start with a dozen bikes to see how how the program you know would just be a roll out of a temporary program with a dozen bikes and the bikes would be returned at the same rack and they're just kind of locked at the rack um by the app I guess yeah it it just seems that to me that well I'm not not again it are you I kind of think that and as far as um heads on Beds which is term rest uh hotels used for how much they income generates um it would seem that if it was connected to an existing Hotel use um rather than just have people drive up and I'm not quite sure how functionality how it would work functionally but it would seem that the main to me that people who live in town and have bikes they have bikes and and they that they're uh they would Market basically to people that are visiting and or staying overnight so I don't know how much the city should get involved this point with them with I don't know if they have a business plan that everybody's seen I mean there were so many uh you know you build it and they will come it's an old very old way to do to grow a business U so I you know brid Street has the the majority of hotel rooms in the city I would say within one block of each other two blocks I would think that if we're going to do anything they should be so associated so people that are in those two hotels can have access to the bikes and the only places that we have room is on the corner where uh our little parket is and uh there's a lot that goes on in that spot now that we have no control over but people tend to use it the way it's just to use it so well maybe maybe uh maybe to council msk's point you maybe we go back and sort of get a better understanding of what this what the program is here you know they also operate a a tubing operation out of French town so so they've already worked with the state they've worked with local municipalities and my you know would not it would seem perfectly reasonable that you know for example we might allow them to have a bike rack at Cherry Street Park and one at Calo Park and and it's marketed for visitors who want to do a loop up to Stockton on on the tow pth right so maybe it's not necessar about riding in town um but maybe it's about taking advantage of the of the toe path right so I'm going to follow up and certainly seems like there's enough interest here um if the council would like maybe I could invite Michael to the October meeting or provide a little B more information if there specific questions well I'm also thinking that if he already has if he already has a relationship with the parks New Jersey state parks there is a really big one out here that runs the full length of the city we talked about that uh and the the U you know there's an issue in terms of space along the toe path with likes right I mean in terms of like putting 12 bikes somewhere on the Toth yeah yeah I think we can like let he's a business person we can kind of help help give him some suggestions but let him you know develop this see what he you know do we can accommodate whatever he's able to do you know I don't know that we're it's not our program it's his program and you know I appreciate his Ingenuity want to get people on more people on bikes rideing bikes so let's see what he comes back with we don't have to I agree I would think that um you know as the operator he would want to he would want to have placement of the racks you know to optimize you know accessibility right and I it's kind of interesting that he just wants to say just tell me where you want where I could put it um but the other thing is if he goes to say he went to the lamber fil station well they they're you know they're going to charge him right so right now he's not paying for uh rental space for his rack because he does it on his own property but I think he's looking for a way to transfer that and not increase his cost which is understandable but at the same time I don't know know that I think it's I think it's a good idea I just don't know what we would be able I'm not even saying we could but we I don't know what we would be able to offer that would really kind of make it something that people would know about find you know and take take advantage of you know now that would be our responsibility right well we we we do have an example of someone tried that and and it failed so um I I would be cautious but we haven't really seen that much you know it would be great to talk to him see what his thoughts are on it you know how it's going to work and what impact it'll have on uh emergency services in town for people who don't know how to ride a bike all right I think I have enough uh feedback here make some uh make some decisions and move on um right there a couple of announcements in here on my agenda I'm just going to run through these and then we'll get back to public discussion items uh porch Fest uh road closure is going to be Sunday October 13th Corel street from Nork Union to George Street 1 to5 the date Port has been moved from Saturday the 12th to Sunday the 13th um we have vote on this weest we will do this at the the September 19th meeting right this just kind f for everybody um trick-or-treating Thursday October 31st uh resolution for the road closure will be voted on at the next meeting um we have a Halloween parade again this year thank you very much to R bird in the bird house um for organizing that Saturday October 26 um the house tour on the 27th um and um we will move into our last three items of discussion so a resident wrote to me last month to um highlight a program called the yellow bandana program this is a program that's operational in some cities I guess out west certainly in Vancouver and it's a fairly straightforward program whereby um own whereby municipality encourages owners completely voluntary of dogs who may have some reactive Behavior to wear a yellow bandan and it's a visual signal for other pedestrians and other dog owners to be aware that the dog that's coming down the street with the yellow bandanas it you know has some reactive qualities and you might want to just be mindful and not pet the dog or let your dog get too near it um and so um my dog would be the first program as many of you who have dogs know um he has a success rate of friendliness of about 75% um which is not enough so um talk to Lindsay about this I think this would be a fairly straightforward thing to give a try this uh you know it feels like yeah pretty straight forward just educational offering people some yellow ribbon or yellow b yellow bandana when I'm out with my dog I've got a yellow bandana on him I could say you know this is because he's gonna bite your leg or whatever right so he's never been anybody never any that we know of that we know I think there are sever people I could volunteer to wear them for us anyway uh does everybody think it's not a bad idea I think it's a good idea Lindsay said she would Le on it it's all about heads on bed head with yellow that's right we we do we do have a database I just cross the street when I see I like that I always cross the street you never know a dog do cross all right but I'm not gonna talk good here expensive special made up say things The Notches on right keep away all right um before we move into the before we move in the canas retail hours I'm GNA just jump to the to the stop sign uh yor North Franklin Street because I hope that will be a fairly short conversation thank goodness I can't that is one heck of an intersection yeah so you know Lieutenant Brown and I talked about this certainly I've spent a lot of time out there recently on the job um with triangle Street job and anybody who's ever driven through that intersection it feels like a weird intersection because if you're you know if you're trying to bypass North Main Street the light and everything else you know there's a lot of traffic through that intersection and uh we were out there and we just thought this should be a great place for fourway stop so is there any are that would be very helpful going up the hill yeah all right so it sounds like we're generally okay with that so epar to we introduce an ordinance to do that probably September 19th meeting to create a fourway St there you know part and and if I might say part of that should include restriping of the corners so people don't park where they're not supp suppos to car because you cannot see the intersection when you pull up because cars part really close to the the intersections on North Franklin Street are due to be that's the last part of the punch list um they're restriping I think next Friday if I remember been many many many emails about punch list um the restriping uh they've already done some restriping but they need to do the crosswalks they need to do front of gr alley a couple places where they so that should all be done next we um and also I don't remember if we talked about this council meeting but uh there have been some concerns about um speed on stford Street um we conducted a speed study a month or so ago and found that up near West an that speeds are actually okay but there have been a number of conversations I've had with residents who are concerned about speed coming down stutter thir Street I talked to a couple residents about you know what we could do there the speed RS aren practical because of the slope I don't know where you want to put because we have three up yeah but as you're coming down and the grade changes where it's steeper um you know there are certain incl where they can't put speed because they actually become a hazard um if somebody hits them too fast they can beer off and you know kind whatever um the only the only thing that we talk I talked to Lieutenant Brown about this for quite a while you know we could consider four-way stops on a couple of you know on a couple of those um the concern with a four-way stop is it certainly would allow for greater safety up there um but you know if you're going up the hill and you have to stop you're going to you know the house is nearest the hill near the stop sign are going to hear the acceleration cars and trucks and so it's a little bit of a a little bit of a a I think we um's not here obviously but we could think about some kind of other visual things to start people to not speed and maybe it's more more uh messaging on Ro that that that typee like spe Lim well something you know yeah I mean there there are other things you could do that would would require some some paint and uh it is a wide Street and wide streets tend to have people go faster on them yeah um you can see that down down here too I mean is like but then they have the hill so it's something with stop signs going up the hill because you take your foot off the break go backwards yeah I mean the painting IDE you know it's not anything to be discuss I mean you could maybe paint slow or slow down you know happy do it slow down or if we want to um put painted crosswalks in they they do put crosswalks across stord yeah yeah so if we want to do crosswalks on on stford itself to to bring a visual in and you know that that kind of thing maybe we can take a look at 29 through 29 where they you know we went from four lanes to two lanes and and maybe incorporate some things that they did on what they called a road diet um which actually makes the road look smaller so you go less yeah speed the I mean you you decreased the width and the road was recently paid so it's smooth sale right so that makes people faster well we're considering it and we're thinking about it and U if anybody has any other ideas let me um and then the last item for discussion is the um having a conversation around potentially um extending to some degree the uh the hours for the Cannabis retail operations here in the city um so just a s of uh for the public record uh I had a letter from Union Chill on the 3D of uh September request for the extension of hours it's address to all of us um they not that uh they've had the first anniversary on June 24th they're very appreciative for the support and guidance of every city of lamell um they note that the current hours are for canus retailers are 9 to 7 Monday through Saturday and 10 to 5 on Sunday um and uhill is suggesting that the hours uh be extended from 9 to 9 Monday through Saturday and 10 to 9 on Sundays let me list a number of uh beneficial you know items for the city uh increase Revenue all kinds of things uh and had a similar letter I don't know if the council actually had a chance to see this it came in late this afternoon baked by the river um you know they're also interest in um extending hours and you know they note that um wouldn't they don't would cause unprecedent traffic or disturbance to their residential neighbors they actually provided a list of 15 different businesses uh within 500 feet of Bak by the river that are open later at 7M um including restaurants and and uh Shops and and bars so some of those are friend late it's 10 11 12 12 a.m. um and they also took time to go to uh 13 of the local businesses in the central business district who uh was in support of expanded hours for for their particular dispensary and provided a list of all of the businesses and support of expanded hours so you know I think um from my perspective you know now having had uh one uh Union shill open for the better part of the year um and um take by the river open since the fall this was not a bad time to sort of consider you know this is something that the council would take a look at um I haven't spoken to any of the council members about this specifically and uh you know the times if there were if there was an extension of the times we would decide what that would be it wouldn't necessarily be to 9 o00 it could be a on hour extension on Sundays I know that for example Union shill said that they felt as though uh competing with other uh dispensaries in the area uh Fleming the on up fling uh and some of the other ones are open till 9: that even an hour on Sunday would make a big difference to the to the business because just a people schedules on Sundays so uh I'm just going to open this up to the council for some general thoughts and and we'll see where we go this any and I would just note for uh for everybody in the room that any you know if there was some decision or some consensus here this this would have to be an amendment to the candidas coordinance when when we originally said that I was on the committee with uh with W Sanders cannabis and many I see some familiar faces from there um we have not had impact from the third one and I think I think you should Sunday I think is the easy one if we're going to extend something because it does close at five o'clock correct yes so I mean personally I would entertain about having the Sunday a cut off late put another hour or something on there period of time but we we haven't had the third one up and running and I'm sure that they're apparently working on it now before we start changing the times I want I think we should experience what comes to it's the third one that's opening up before we continue also note that we have an application today for the fourth uh final license uh a micro business in the C3 District down at the South part of town so I don't know what'll happen with that but I think the plan I think their application for the planning board is ready to go I don't know uh if that's been submitted to Crystal yet or where we are with that but I will just note that we are just today received a completed application for a retail planning board received the application about a month ago I don't know where they are in the mix um but we'll let you know and you know and although you know I'm favor of using that zone as we had Ted to enable someone open in that area you know we don't yet know the impact on Wilson Street we don't know the impact on M H Street the the entrance or exit whatever it is close off the 29 down to that is is I think it's problematic that that's what the planning board can deal with so I'm if we could please not so I'm I'm concerned about extending the hours uh without having to see their traffic study that I assume they're going to have to do because most of most of the cars that are going to be going down there are going to be using Wilson so and M home perhaps and South Union Street so let's see how that impacts their neighborhood before we do a blanket extension of time I'm so I think Sunday is the easy one at this point um we want to extend the Sunday hour but we still have two that have't open not a l I'm hesitant about blanket I agree about a blanket uh because I think we have to look at these individual zones because you know the church uh big F River on Church Street is really in a very different area than Union chill um Union chill has much more residential uh there uh you know um so I think I I don't think um a blanket approach is right because uh you know Church treat I think can handle a little bit later than the more residential areas um I was impressed that they by river has already gone through and talked to a lot of people um I think if Union chill wants to extend their hours I appreciate the wether they sent to us um I think the next thing they should be doing is talking to the neighbors and making sure uh you know they know that this is uh what the proposal is and that they're interested and you know I know they they've been trying to uh you know maintain good communication with the neighbors and that's I think the next step that I would hope they would do is reach out to the neighbors to find out what their thoughts are I think that'd be a good idea because if there are problems uh the neighbors are going to be able to let the uh Union show people know that um and so I I agree I think Sunday is something that could be considered but I really think that they need to do a little bit more work talking to the residents there I know I see a lot of people who came tonight uh who live in that area who are concerned and I think we need to make sure that this isn't going to affect their Liv in the house yeah especially on Elm Street right we did get a there was an EMA since we're since this is a work session since uh if there are currently problems on we got got I read that letter as well you know if there's concern by people on Corel on on thank you so much Elm Street sorry about that on Elm Street that are concerned now with the prison operation about speeding and whatever the concern is then that gets addressed we should address that uh conversations with h Lieutenant Brown and the neighbors and see you know if there's something we can do to alleviate uh the speed that people are using and on that I know in the beginning they had mentioned that they were going to promote a way in and way out and and shy away from that street and and direct people to Cherry and then since Union Street is so wide the Union uh so uh I think we have to I mean that's that's uh one that we really have to look into and since since the public is aware of what the what happens on Elm Street I think we have to look at that problem before we do anything and if there's something we can do to how it's currently being run fine and we we all went into this knowing that it was it was going to be impacting a neighborhood and if it's impacting a neighborhood negatively we have to deal with that sooner before we start changing hours just before you go I I did have a long conversation with Lieutenant Brown about Home Street um and uh I just wanted to check in with him um he has not recorded any speed incidents or any accidents or anything of that nature on Elm Street in the last year so that is in discount kind of what what residents may feel but in terms of you know statistics and the police department we had that conversation and he's not having any complaints in the last six months about El Street traffic certainly I have stilled some questions about parking um from a couple of residents recently and uh you know I've had conversation with uh un chill uh you know be can I don't can is the wrong word at a public meeting you know there is a minow and mosow has moved now to the same building as Union shill the parking lot back there has a lot more cars in it from day to day I have had a conversation with Union chill they are looking to rent some spaces for their employees off site to to uh to lessen the impact of kind of parking in the lot I haven't really gone over there to look at what the situation is from day to day um but it seems to be involving a little bit now that there's a fairly significant tenant new tenant in the building so um I'll just say that in my conversations with un and chill they've been very um uh engaged about parking and uh you know continue to have those conversations and I would enourage you know to for residents you know I do I do live right there and I do go around the corner quite a bit Lindsay lives on down street and I'm happy to have you kind of uh you know repeat what what you said to me today so I mean there are some there are some concerns about certainly the volume of cars um but my personal kind of view of the thing um I haven't seen major instances of issues um do you want to add anything as a resident of streety I'm kind of in the middle of elm so I'm not as directly affected as people that are right on the corner opion but I do notice that people who are visiting the they flashing Park where they're not supposed to they're constantly parking on the street rather than in the lot where they're supposed to park and there is some signage that kind of suggests that there's off street parking but it's not very clear and it's not followed very often I've asked them to add a sign to the to the uh the one right below the one way sign uh that directs people in parking lot it's a clear indication for Union chill please park here right so so I think we can make some improvements in terms of signage and continue to have conversations with uh one resident indicated that the free parking sign was a good thing like that really got more people to go in the back so maybe they could add that as well well and maybe too um in our enforcement you know folks that are just pulling over and wa and putting on their flashers going there should be advised that that is not appropriate you know um I I agree with you um councilman segment that um to look at making any changes before we have the whole four program up and running is kind of ill advised because we're still working at The Kinks and right now we're all talking about anecdotal evidence of what we've all done and there are folks here who live with it all the time that I'd rather you know hear from people people and and notice it and and because you know I I don't care as much about tax a little extra tax revenue and hours as I do about you know the quality of life for for everybody you know for folks who want to shop there and folks who don't want to shop there I mean I think we owe it to both sides to take a full look when everything is up and running because right now where it's just you know it's not a full fully vetted program and we're just talking about what a couple of folks have observed so I don't feel like fully informed to be able to called it's a great industry for us you know it's brings a lot of you know it helps with tourism and the heads on the better people come here that they that they can also shop at at at these shops like but I think we need to in terms of making changes to the program that we set up let's wait and see how it all works with four of them I think that's a sound idea you know I I've had conversations with f by the river about other things that they want to do and I've been pretty steadfast and saying I really want some time behind us in terms of evaluating everything and you know I think I'm more open to considering extended hours but you know hearing everybody here speak I think that it's probably I would be interested to hear if everybody would at least consider like extending the Sunday hour till 6 for example I think that would be a small good step in the right direction but you know if the council doesn't want to do that that's fine too um but but I do think it's good to have more more behind us right have all four of them to up and running um before we consider any changes so I don't disagree uh about that and I don't know you know Sunday is the only option to give people another hour well I think it would be you know for me I think it would be uh I don't to say good faith but I mean be something right and I think that from what I deferred Sunday is a and you know maybe we talk to maybe we talk to the City attorney and say you know I don't know about this idea I'm just sort of brainstorming here but is it is it appropriate possibly to have different hours for different locations right I mean Central business district is different than you know yeah I'm hant only only only because uh it sets up maybe an unfair advantage to people yeah it's just an idea you know based on the fact that the ice cream shop is open till you know 9 or 10 o'clock right I mean you know want to be careful but throw out do anything until we actually have an opportunity to even hear from people right you know we haven't really heard from folks other than you know it's kind kind of came on the agenda so you know like even an hour on Sunday like let's here from folks yeah you know first okay yeah and and um yeah some ideas about Elm Street as we're all talking about it about monitoring or taking some kind of survey so to speak you know where when you turn down Elm Street where you going and and if and we have to do some just so we would have hard information because getting people off of Elm Street to get there was was was a welld discussed topic that Elm Street would not be the prime there and maybe a signage up at Cherry Street is it is something that can be done you know to direct people down to go North Union go south on North Union Street and then go on Elm Street to enter or um I know and and we you know it's an experiment the parking lot because you can't you know we changed how people enter and exit that which it's only an entrance on Elm off of elm and the other ways a two-way in and out so we just have to see holistically how you know how we can improve that and satisfy the residential area while helping the uh retails and it is it's a great industry for us because you know a lot of the rest of the county you know that these Services aren't that available so it's a great part of our our tourism and and and you know we want it to to work and we can we can certainly do a traffic study on Elm Street and count how many vehicles come through and give it period then do the same thing for Buttonwood Street see kind of the difference is well even if we can get Union chill when they come to Union chill uh ask you know how they came in you know we'll have some good information that way okay um so it sounds like we're just gonna hold off on that for now um we'd love to hear from Neighbors on this um uh obviously when we have uh we're not quite there yet uh with public participation but we will be in a minute um so uh I'm just going to go through the rest of the announcements here um i' like to note that uh we got a $40,000 Grant from the county for our storm sewer video camera which is amazing yes thank you very much County Commissioners so um that's great we just got not we just got notified of that this morning um and I think that's the maximum you can get out of this yeah I think we got the complete list of and I think 4 was the maximum yeah um just a personal note I'll be on vacation out of the city from Wednesday the 11th through 17th be far away so will not be answering emails to council president Lambert or Cindy here if you have any questions or concerns and I'll try and catch up with everybody as soon as I get back um we have anything else for you announcements we're good we're good all right so I will open this up to the public second public participation uh same uh rules apply you have three minutes uh please step up to the podium state your name and address and three minutes 207 North Union um a couple of things um the yellow band for the dogs wonderful idea you might want to consider using that as a fundraiser somehow and going with the alliance or somebody on that order that I'm from a marketing background that's where my brain goes that was just one and then on the bik the bikes which I think is a fun idea um on the weekends I nearly miss getting killed at least once a weekend from day Trippers um they don't know the rules of the canal they're not wearing helmets they don't have bells on their bicycles I would suggest that they make sure there's helmets involved in this for everybody's safety and then post it on these bike racks was a list of rules to be a good citizen and be a safe View riter and not run over people you know especially when you're making that turn by the Nifty bridge and you're supposed to walk your bike and you end up going so just those two little comments now on to Union show um Everybody spoke of Elm Street North Union is also huge um you a little further down mayor but where we are they're parking backwards they're parking double parking they're parking and leaving their cars running very often um there's noisy cars I mean like those little tiny you know Inner City kind of cars that are um and they have become a real pain they don't respect the neighbors they don't respect the neighborhood I had one guy I was sitting on my porch with three or four of the other neighbors and I said cars backwards and it's running he goes I'll be out in a minute I said bet I get a cop here that and he moved his car but um that happens more often than not um in the evening during the day it's pretty mellow around there so to extend evening hours people and they as Lindsay said they Park they put on their blinkers on the corner on El in North Union which also mises is coming in and out of um I've had the front end of my car taken off by a truck from n's God knows what's going to happen they come in late too they don't just come in during day the nce trucks they come in and they park in the back lot so even and I also feel that I understand the Sunday like let's you know show them a little bit but you know was it give an inch take a mile I really would strongly feel that we gave them anything being that we have to change uh what's the right word I'm looking for circulation no the amendment um the ordinance yes the for we have to amend an ordinance that we do not do anything and Steve you and I were on the same traffic committee uh when they first opened and we said there'd be about 40 cars an hour prior to their opening now I'm wondering what it actually is now that would be an interesting number so w up pardon me you wrap up um that's pretty much wrapped up um but I am going to work very hard not to have this place open any later that it is and I would like speed bumps back thank you just one thing about the bik SC helmets that's a great point that we had with the bike helmets and I think we should pass that on to them thanks you're welcome Jeff P 33 RS Street hel mandatory um I just wanted to start off with if you're talking about Wilson Street you know we've built 19 houses or will be building houses and we've lost half the parking on the street already and then you have the valet from from there so it's a narrow Street everybody built the house there has two cars one in their driveway and one on the street so there's no parking left in fact you can't even get to the Y uh at Park there anymore um anyway I wanted to go back to talked about bandanas we talked about um food trucks and software we didn't talk about the stormw ordinance and that ordinance is going to have a bigger impact in anything we're talking about today in this meeting and I was hoping for a real discussion where we can get up and ask questions and have a back and forth I know was at meeting ago but so here I just start off with how will the ordinance reduce flooding attemp well it's for new development so it's not how will it how will it deal with a major flood like Ida it can't how will the ordinance deal with what's happening at lville High School site steep slopes and rock out profit how are you going to infil water there um how is it going to deal with Redevelopment even though we say it does it when you read the ordinance it's all about what triggers it is taking basically open space or caving over land that's not pav so I don't see the trigger to get a Redevelopment when someone like pinkles comes in or someone else um the other point is at other towns when it comes to the minor Monclair is 250 square feet soulberry is 100 square F feet when we talk about a major yes it's better than it was but we're still talking about an essential business district pretty large and intense development one of the things that I thought we should have done is separate the ordinance from the hill where we want to retain water back and do more to hold water and then in town where it's mostly developed where you really need to try to get the water out of the neighborhood uh I don't know how we're going to really do stream buffers on it since most of our buffers are developed but I just think that the point that I want to make is that this is a major ordinance for a town and it doesn't do as much as we think it does and we have a major development up on the hill that's going to have tremendous impacts and I don't see this doing enough to deal with that Major Impact and in fact even though there is infiltration in here it's not the amount of infiltration so when you have a forested area three inches of rainfall can be infiltrated under this ordinance and I'm not against it I think it's a major step forward by the state of New Jersey 1.25 Ines is not bad so we're still going to have additional runoff coming off the mountain and that'll be true on any other open space area so I just wanted to end there but I want another time talk about parking because we're giving out a lot of development in this town especially on the south end and there's no parking and it's going to become a grid lock and we're going to lose people from this town from it and and lose [Music] tourists Diane p 22 El Street um I I just want to thank you for please considering residents of el Street and North Union for the extension of chers I live if you don't know where 22 Elm Street is I am the closest I'm right on top of it the I've lived in my house for 20 years the volume of traffic is beyond what I would ever thought and getting down Elm Street when you get home from work at 6:30 at night people don't take turns if they're people are speeding they they pull over they don't park in the backl they pull up they leave the car running or they Park really close to the corner on Elm or on you can't if you have to go out you can't turn because you can't see um people do still come out and light up uh in their cars or whatever is what percentage of their customer base and that that's a whole it's just the volume of people and if you if the hours are extended the quality of life on El Street it you know the weekends we get the motorcycles in on a nice weekend I wouldn't buy a residential home on Main Street New Hope I'm not against motorcycles but it's a a place where a lot of motorcycles go good for them happy for them they have a good time but it's not where I would put a private residence in a place that attracts motorcycles Etc um and if it's a rainy weekend people pull up an idle they pull up right next to my house me their car run to go in I'll only be 10 minutes you know it's just um I almost got run over again on the sidewalk it's a week and a half ago thankfully I was not walking my dog but as you know the driveway is very wide I came out of my house I was halfway through the drive about halfway through with of the driveway and a car she was a young woman came flying around the corner into the driveway missed me by about from here to that table slammed on her brakes I sto stopped and then she kept going so I would love a traffic study I would love um while there having been official accidents I've seen close calls um it it just the quality of the lives and if if it were to be extended on a Sunday when I tell you Sunday is my only day off work and I look forward to 500m because I hear cars and people are coming and going um if I smell anything and it's a nice day I close my windows you know it it just the it's there they have as you know by your Revenue numbers 2% of what you're getting do the math as to the Vol whatever take you guess as to what the average customer spends there the volume of people and they're doing great and I'm happy for them but it's a commercial building in the middle of a residential neighborhood you can't compare it to Church Street in business district so please please consider thank Jessie Streeter um just coming up to say that I think it's unreasonable um to delay extending hours until the start date of the other proposed dispensaries in Town um Delo dispensary was approved 11 months before mine um and had the opportunity to start construction during that time period had the opportunity to start construction this entire past year as well um and I don't think it's reasonable for the other businesses in town to have to run our businesses based on that delay and their timeline what their timeline is is their timeline and also the hypothetical of another application in town that hasn't been approved yet um I think it's also unreasonable to consider all the different dispensaries in the different zones of town under the same category I I consider that unreasonable as well um we are the only small business land own dispensary in town we've gotten I'm proud to say no complaints from local residents on Church Street or surrounding streets um we have really gone out of our way to work with the local community and someone that lives on Church Street mits the bar is open and people are hanging out smoking cigarettes until like 10:00 at night most nights it's a good vibe like people are walking around there's noise there is it's it's got like a nice city atmosphere to it especially on the we um and I wanted to pass the sheet that I went around with to all the like listed businesses that I included in that email and the hours that I SP about with the local businesses for weekend hours um Friday increasing the hours till 9 Saturday increasing the hours till 9 Sunday increasing the hours to 7 p.m. um and honestly all the local businesses thought it was absurd that I didn't have to come to the city council meeting and go through multiple meetings to try and get a change on this because they just see it as a benefit to the local community to have my business as part of central business district bringing more customers into town bringing a variety of different customers into town and sending them to the restaurants around sending them to the other businesses giving them good recommendations and the central business district businesses have been particularly hit hard by the closing of the bridge and that's something that I have universally heard from all of the businesses in my surrounding area and if we passed this ordinance to be able to expand my hours this fall that could directly benefit the other businesses around me um and bring W Commerce to Church Street in later in the day that actually reflects the other businesses in my area more authentically um and so I don't want to be considered in the same category as you CH because you don't have the same residential complains that they're dealing with I don't want to be considered in the same category as Jersey Girls dispensary because I'm not sure when they're going to do and I walk by there every day um and so having our business have to wait on the hypothetical of that open date and the open date of the future one um it like honestly we haven't had any disturbances it's not been something that's been problematic so um I I I don't see why this a hard push espe um I think we should ask the City attorney if we can have different hours I think that's important whatever we're going to do to know that answer um and as I said before I'm impressed with the Outreach that you've done with the neighbors there that to me is a distinct difference than and chill uh you know if you guys have already done my like work and reached out to those people um and I myself talked to a lot of people on Church Street my friends on Church Street to and uh I have not heard any complaints at all so I think we should askne about yeah and I don't know if you can spop zone times open and close times just because someone is in the central business district means they can stay open longer and I and extending the hours of of uh your business how can we not then extend them for Jersey girls which is even open yet so I mean you're both in the CBD we just can't pick one uh in the CBD and say you can stay open but you can't stay open but when your competitor three blocks away is open at we're not saying that though because they have the same they would have the same benefits to Big by the river there's no nobody lives there I wouldn't have a problem with that at all the problem I have is we've got you know 25 families that live right next to Union chill and they are going to be negatively affected by the um the increase in the and we don't have those same residential families by Jersey girls or B by the river so I really think we need to look at this individually her neighborhood to see how it affects it and we need a an answer from the attorney attorney right which do yeah we should do yeah there is this Zone designation that would give some um kind of you know flexibility possibly yeah exactly thank you running out of words but yeah yeah because it is I'll I'll have spoken to the City attorney by our September 19th meeting and uh I'll report to the council before then if I if I have that answer before then but we'll see we'll see what happens there it's good question to ask thank you excuse me Dave bird 255 runswick Avenue uh going back to the storm water ordinance that was talked about again tonight uh I uh my recollection is when that ordinance had been brought up there was a number of discussions about it and I believe and I could be wrong but I believe what the commitment was that there would be a conversation all right a meeting a separate meeting and then I think it got combined into this to uh let the people ask questions and be educated it because this is an impact on their you know Future Property Owners and and the like and you know Doug did when did his thing all right but it didn't give the people an opportunity to ask the questions in front of council that said well maybe we need to look at that differently is it strong enough is it you know what needs to be done I don't think we got what we need to and I would suggest that before this goes forward all right because there's not a big subject than storm water okay and that ties into the you know the 200 on the hill all right but you got we've got to have an opportunity to talk all right it's great we have three minutes up front three minutes up back there's a lot of knowledge H in this room Sean Ellis beler Avenue um I just want to say that I I I completely agree that um you know big by the river who I I think are model citizens in this domain and doing everything right and talking to their neighbors and you know not getting complaints um they shouldn't be punished for uh Union chill's inability to talk to their neighbors or work things out or control their clientele you know um in terms of parking and and behavior and stuff uh so you know I just I I I think that it should not be a blanket um uh ordinance around the around the hours um because it really is is unfair to them and um and you know they're doing the right thing but um I did want to also talk about parking and you know its relation to this storm order art coordinates and um and what Jeff was talking about on Wilson Street you know the the growing lack of parking and the valet and you know things that are really impacting that um there's on me you know different sides of town there's a lot of parking that's mostly unused and it's all impermeable surfaces right you have the River Walk parking you have the um all the vacant buildings that have been vacant for many years down by where Jersey Girls is you know going to be going going in um Lambert Lane area you know you have you know um there's the CVS parking lot and and other um areas where it's just like empty almost all of the time and what oh the the Catholic church right that's another big one um I mean these are imperviable surfaces that are barely used barely out of any value um you know maybe to the businesses that are there that you know are in operation but um one thing that I would consider is um you know can is there a way to work out some kind of deal or or maybe impose a tax if you know for um these you know impermeable surfaces that generate a lot of runoff uh in let you know and and negotiate City parking there or you know um parking for I mean there would be great places to put the bikes you know tourists coming into town at the ends of town they could go outside of lamberville they could go into lamberville and um you know uh that's cars that are reduced you know we're reducing cars from going into the city if people are able to park in these areas so I don't know I just I look at these empty parking lots all the time and I look at our parking problems and there's got to be a better solution um so I don't have one but that may might be a you know a step worth taking and and and talking about so at any rate take the parking question no Solutions there's never enough parking you're always one parking spot short and we certainly aren't allowed to tax imp permeable surfaces like parking lots uh if we had a St water utility we could certainly assess it Fe so uh unfortunately as we know that there's not enough support here Council level for that but that would be one way that we could uh offset the impact of these large uh you know part paid paid LS and you know relative to storm water had to get that in there while I had the opportunity sorry there a that says you can't tax well tax except for the the nonprofits yeah yous but I mean we can impose fees can't we as part of storm utility [Music] we I would have to double check bill but yes we seems a littlee anyway please hi John 14 um couple of things the storm water management work that came out I was a little disappointed I wasn't able to ask questions many of them would have been know simply like uh I'm sure you guys discussed that sorry bad citizen I haven't attended a whole bunch of meetings the last bunch of years but um where we generated re revenue from is is coming Grant from the state I'm assuming taxes are going to also supplement a majority of those things okay it happens cost of doing business business uh be careful with Union and Chile you're opening up City for potential liability um they were given a permit to open their shop they have limiting their hours open you up for liability because what's right down the street Bell's Tavern don't put a block on doll's T hours you don't put a block on liquor store down on on South Union Street so again before you get us into trouble hopefully the City attorney can address those issues and again I feel very bad for the citizens who are dealing with those things and it's notify law enforcement that's going to be your best bet um take a picture of the offending car and the operator I don't know for that to law enforcement we have to be careful kind of also disappointed we spent more time talking about Union chill have about the 200 up on the hill maybe I'm I'm Jaded by that but again it's a big deal um at what point does the city council know that they could release the report of the meeting with the judge that would be something all of us would be I realize there's certain things because some of the vendors involved you have to not open yourself up for liability but it is something we would like to know about interest of you know clity and understanding where your positions are and if we have the option to move the 200 throughout the whole town maybe 10 up on our Hill fine once the remediation is done up there and then finally who owned the back in the day when all this started in the 30s and the 40s and the 50s believe that was lamberville City so then is the pollution that my house is affected by well as everybody else up on that Hill technically the city's liveil thank you uh let me take a couple of those down I'm happy to uh so just in terms of the Cannabis retail operations so that was set by ordinance before businesses were allowed to begin so they agreed to those times as part of the The Bu of ordinance so they there's no question of liability or them sort of taking any legal action against the city because that was the that was one of the opponents that they agreed to when they when they yeah um just in terms of storm water management you know I'm happy to meet with anybody want to talk about this ordinance or storm water management in general but certainly we have ongoing costs the storm water control storm water management ordinance here is going to cost the city more in terms of just oversight Implement not implementation but kind of just kind of you know process uh know it's going to involve more um escrow accounts for Professional Services to to review applications it's going to increase uh the inspection time on Construction office so there will be an impact in terms of costs um that will not be offset by any you know unless we to some degree they're offset by Feats um but I can't speak to kind of it's a big it's a big question right so so you know there's no grant funding here this is just about sort of setting the rules in the process uh and then the process is overseen by the city and its professionals when the professionals are brought in it's at the it's at the expense of the applicant so so we're not incing C that um the hill we just can't talk about it it's confidential uh you know contractual negotiation at the moment um we can't talk about it and I don't know when we're going to be able to talk about it because we're in a discussion right so it's not that we don't want to talk about it and to some degree it would be inadvisable to talk about it at the moment because where're nothing is nothing is resolved we're in negotiations right so as important as it is to keep people informed about these things we simply can't speak you know who would be inadvisable uh to speak and probably U go ahead what's the word what am I looking for here inadvisable is the word inadvisable so um so you know there there there are lots of times when governing bodies have to know things that public just can't know um and this is one of those moments in this process and uh as soon as I'm able as soon as were able to share information about it again it wasn't on the agenda because we don't we can't say anything so so you know pay attention you know I know that people are watching looking at the agendas if you see it on the agenda you know that's an indication that we're actually have something to say about it or it's going to be a conversation so until that time uh you know I I can't speak to how long or how fast this is going to go um but things are things are happening we just um and then lastly I don't really know the question about the dump we've talked a little bit about this I don't know do we ever really own the dump I think I don't know it's a question for the City attorney you know terms of liability and responsibility this is a very complicated question and uh how you know had a conversation with the city attorney about this today how far back you know does liability go if we never own the land is do we have liability if other people were dumping is there a share liability what if there are no records right what if there's just this kind of you know every 80-year-old in town knew that it was the dump I mean there was no other way to kind of to to memorialize that so very very complicated and we don't have I don't have the answers I don't know who own who owned actual land in the 30s and 40s um I suppose we could you know go up to the county and go the deeds and figure that out but in terms of the existing problem there it's very complicated um to to begin to understand uh who's responsible to what degree they're responsible and so forth um so want to kind get out there as well comments from coun thanks I'm Keith I'm at 207 North un also a couple of things about you about extending hours um there is a different type of clientele that goes into a store such as a dispensary in the evening versus in the day in the daytime in the early evening um I live across the street that's not a part of the community that I would like to have hanging out outside my door um there is a difference between what time a restaurant and bar closes and what time of dispensary closes a restaurant and a bar by definition serves food it helps mitigate the effects of the alcohol that's being served a bar has a responsibility to stop serving people when they are intoxicated but the ens is supposed to not sell anything to people that are obviously under already under the influence and I have personally seen the dispensary across the street from my house do so a couple of times when I've gone in to have conversations with M with their current their management at the time about trying to be a better neighbor um the question is you know anecdotal evidence of speeding on Elm Street in North Union yeah it's it's anecdotal because the police don't happen to be there when it happens put a couple of radar strips in keep track of how many people are going down those streets that are speeding not that difficult a thing to to to research um I've almost had my dogs get run over on the streets getting out of the cars I've had a hop back in the in the cross paths plenty of times I have sent pictures to the mayor and to Lieutenant Brown of cars parked illegally on the wrong side of the streets in the crosswalks I've done all that I gave up doing it because it wasn't doing any good so I personally have documented a ton of this stuff we've had lots of really good conversations um thank you I've had good conversations with Lieutenant Brown he blew my mind I'm really freaking annoyed with you know the Attorney General but there's nothing I can do about it about the lighting up right as they're walking out and all that sort of stuff I can't do anything about that um but extending the hours especially at that location is going to do nothing but be Quality quality of life of North Union and and all the streets around thanks Pa Stevens 39 Cory um like my friend Dave bird I was kind of expecting a little bit more discussion about storm water management at kind of a base level um I guess and being able to ask questions back and forth I guess I'll go to the planning meeting now to ask questions um but like for example as Jeff points out I was sitting there thinking the same thing this sounds like one ordinance fits all and what we know about this town is that there's very different storm water issues depending on where you live in this town okay what's up on the hill is not the same as what happens down in town but it causes a lot of what happens down in town it's the run off from up on the hill but it sounds like a lot of that was cared towards the ex exist well assuming everything's homogeneous and I'm not sure that's the case and it's sort of thing you're hearing about with the central business district versus the the mixed District you know about well Union chill and the names banked by the river you know they're they're different they're in different areas so maybe there are different things you want to do about that same thing it would seem to me would have apply to the storm water management ordinance because we are so so diverse geographically and ecologically thank [Music] you J 86 North Union Street um I just want to note of some of the things that we have been passing over tonight with small attention we spend a lot of time on other matters that I know are matters that people care about but whether Jello bandanas or whatever it might be but I heard storm water utility come up in the conversation a few minutes ago and we all or several people have noted we didn't get a chance to ask the questions about the storm water ordinance and I don't want to see storm waterer utility come up by hey we got to do this because our ordinance isn't working well we need to spend time on the ordinance and people need to understand it and I wonder if it makes sense for the community to have the planning board get it on this day and you guys get it the next day to pass which means or to consider passage which really doesn't give much time for people to even know what went to the planning board even know what's coming up before the council and I and just questioning whether that's the best idea when you have so much interest in the city on these things and so much effect if we don't do it right so I have a great deal of concern about that I understand you can't talk about whatever you're talking about in terms of the 200 units but I also know we aren't hearing anything about the Redevelopment of the Village Apartments we aren't hearing hearing anything about maybe building some houses in part of the Clon property that is property that is not in the protected area we aren't hearing anything about the cardboard property which might be uh a place for consideration of some development for affordable housing so it's just a little worrisome because we only get a chance to see you guys once a month or maybe twice if a person can come to both your meetings and then all of a sudden it looks as though things are okay we're moving along and I don't I don't think on these issues your your fellow Travelers here in the city want to think of it that way three different people said to me today oh don't worry about that that's been killed it's not going to happen well we're talking tonight as though things are going to happen so I I just think we got to do a little bit better job of communicating I too thought tonight was going to be a lot more discussion about storm water and again as Dave said it might be us but it it seems as though we haven't had that opportunity so appreciate your consideration of those things thank you you're H always welcome to make an appointment with me or to send questions and writing and we'll answer them for you if uh if you like I'm happy to follow up with anybody at any time uh any questions we I as I've said for the last almost three years now I answer every email um and I'm happy to set up a meeting with anybody to go through any questions uh you know occasionally you know we we've now spent an considerable amount of time working through this coordinance at expense you know at $165 an hour for the city engineer um you know this is every time we have a meeting with Mr tle our council person and the city engineer uh you know we're we're we're running up expenses and we're working toward getting something good done and we've done something good here with this ordinance and if you have questions about it I would encourage you to write to me or to come to the planning board there'll be opportunity to talk about the planning board there's also the public hearing and second reading uh of the ordinance there's plenty of opportunities for the for the for the for the residents of the city to address questions on any number of things and in terms of the process this is not an unusual process so there have been several instances in the last couple of years where things have gone before the planning board one night the planning board makes a clear determination and it goes to the council the next day and uh and enjoys passage or adoption so you know in terms of the process the process is I think correct and I think that in terms of the storm water management ordinance that we've been talking about you know as I noted earlier in the meeting we did get a letter from the state saying why hasn't this been done right so at some point we need to get off the fence and we need to move forward with these ordinances that public is welcome to come along and they're welcome to ask questions I'm here the council's here I'll make the city engineer available to any question that I can't answer so please it's not just about the council meetings and the opportunity to ask a lot of questions in a council meeting but it's engaging kind of during the rest of the week I'm in City Hall 40 hours a week so please take advantage of that I just wanted to add one thing to what Judy was saying about the affordable housing that I didn't get to talk about um my firm has built some affordable housing before in uling I believe and another town and I talked to them how that process worked and um they actually said they'd be very interested in helping out and um you know proposed giving us $10,000 to help so um if we can find a space my firm is willing to to help out and put $110,000 out and also get people build it so and in terms of the village departments we have no news to share so if there were news we would share it um there's no there's nothing to say unfortunately um and uh you know several people have fled the idea of potentially putting affordable housing on the uh up at the up at Hen Park um that's a conversation that we can have we'll be having I hope that everybody's going to come to the affordable housing informational session on Monday we'll be talking about everything affordable housing um I have uh you know said I'm not necessarily opposed to doing that but I want to consider uh the site as a whole in order to do that so you know and I want to make sure that we are giving each uh thing it's due in terms of making sure that we get all the way through a particular process so at the moment I think for for me the the important thing is to get through whatever happens with the the high school uh Redevelopment plan is to focus on that because that is the major thing at the moment right whether it's good bad otherwise whether it passes whether it doesn't passes ends up in a lawsuit I don't know but I need to spend a bulk of my time focused on that because that's the thing that we've been focused on as a council for the last two years so so you know it's not a question of not wanting to do different things but it's a question of keeping focus on the thing that we've already committed to seeing through so there only so many hours in in my day and I'm open to a lot I think but uh you know for me the focus has to remain on this on this potential project until uh until a decision is made one way or another so uh I I can't be I can't be drawn in a thousand different directions I need to be focused um and I'm willing to consider just about anything but in its time so that's that's end of my my little set box speech for this evening about the storm water management just a second is that the addition of minor projects was came to pass because I was cons uh we didn't have that as a category and uh I think what happens on the Hills develop influences I mean I can't say it again but water does not run up there um and part of our approach in the storm in this new storm water uh ordinance was to make sure that we caught the little the little projects on the hill that happened and that result in more runoff downtown so that was not in our original ordinance that was fled around that was something that I that conversations with myself the mayor and the council and and our engineer uh was to add something that uh that address the concerns that you had just mentioned so uh I think that was a major uh change in the way we uh are approaching so water management and you know hopefully the planning board will uh review this and approve it or make recommendations but you know we we know where the water comes from and I I would just to flesh that out a little bit I I would also add that it's not just about pills right so it's about the flat part of town so you know there's a house on North Union Street when it was built I don't know eight or 10 years ago for whatever reason it developed its own stor mod management system and everything that is generated on that site stays on that site it's a single family home and simple system and everything is everything gets infiltrated back into the ground and that's uh that's a marvelous thing and it doesn't matter whether you're on a hill or whether you're downtown those are the kinds of things that we should be encouraging all over town and the idea that you could kind of like pick and not pick and shoes but tailor the ordinance to some areas and not the other that makes things very complicated as well because then You' got oversight issues that are very you know just intensifies and makes it makes it a lot more complicated so happy to answer questions and have conversations now I would is anybody onl who wants to speak how many people we have uh right now we have six but at the very beginning we had 17 okay thanks um so I would ask for motion to close a public participation session fav please say [Music] I and mo to please move all fav please say [Music] [Music]