##VIDEO ID:VAxu8rk1sMA## i' like to call this meeting order at 7 p.m. and ask the uh be C read the statement of compliance with the open public meetings act into the record please this meeting is being held in compliance with the open public meetings act with the meeting schedule advertised in the January 10th 2024 edition of the times the meeting agenda was posted on The Bard City Hall and on the city's website and a meeting notice was sent to members of the lift ser and department heads and city city engineer on Monday October 7th 2024 meeting agenda offers planned action items known at the time of publication and is subject to change this meeting is being recorded and streamed live using the zoom meeting platform member please Council msky here councilman L here councilman stman here council president Lambert here mayor Noah here we ask everyone to please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance we remain standing for moment of silence to all those affected by storms in the last couple of weeks States naice for all thank you for those members of the public would like to speak we ask you unless mobility issues to step to the microphone at the podium state your name and address anybody would like to Jeff P 33 Wilson Street I just want to start off with the hurricane because very good friend of mine has a restaurant his house and his mother's house all got washed out in Nashville and I've been help helping sending stuff down because his restaurant had 10t of water and he's cooking for people in the community and keeping his uh you know his staff working in helping feed the First Responders and the others and reason I mentioned all that is we should think about all donating what can to the different groups that are dealing with this down there but that also brings me to New Jersey and to lamberville but happened you know in North North Carolina was a tragedy um but nature brings the rain it's man's that makes it worse and here lamberville and New Jersey we really have not done a lot since Ido or Sandy or any of the other floods to really deal with uh the problem of uh of storms that are happening more and more frequently you know there's two states in the nation that are building more in the wrong places anywhere else Florida and New Jersey Jersey second for arst first and so that brings me to the Redevelopment site because that is a site that is not only have we cut down 12 acres of trees up there and we'll be sending down a lot of storm water because you're not going to be able to handle those steep slopes the people down below have been impacted by ID this still within our memory so I think we should be think again about moving the development from up there and finding more appropriate sites which brings me to my other point was I saw you you're going to be discussing an affordable housing committee today and I think it's a good idea but that horse is leaving the barn we have to start acting now we don't have mean that committee will can help a lot down the road for next year and the next round uh maybe a little bit now but we really have to start moving and coming up with alternative sites and and looking at other places support to go I mean in setting up the committee they should be looking at two things one is what are the best places for affordable housing and what are the places that should not have affordable hous because land is a very well Rogers said land we just don't make it anymore we don't have a lot of land but we are going to have an obligation we have sites that are not suitable a site that also carries contamination um as well as who knows what's up there with two sites that are very suspicious um it just doesn't seem to work for those reasons so again I think that you know time is running out and even though we do have some time we really have to start moving we can't delay having committee is a great thing but we have to get things done before that committee is going to be able to meet and my last point is we know about the um the problems up there in the community they're impacted by Wells um I I've heard you know that West damell has sent the letter uh to the state about it but what does Lambertville we need to be moving and we need to be working with our communities because um quite frankly there even though there're separate issues they are tied together the health of that Community is affected by the development and affected by contaminated Wells as is the rest of the town so thank you thanks um just a couple of points there uh so councilman lied and I was going to talk about this a little bit later in the meeting but uh I'll just mention it now um met with um uh uh our planners uh and our flal housing attorney on October 3rd we had a long meeting with them we checked in we asked about basically everything that are we doing everything we can be doing we had a number of conversations about potential projects um so uh you know I don't know if you want to flesh that out a little bit but uh I felt good about meeting and I felt good about the conversation uh and I you know uh I don't have anything to add I would just say I agree with Jeff I don't think this is going to do too much presently sor thank you um I agree with you Jee I don't think this committee is going to address this current sit situation but I think the hope is obviously um you know we have the fourth round coming uh you know we need to be on top of that we need to look for areas as you said that are suitable and ones that are not so that's uh part of what this committee is going do and just one point uh that I think was important that came out of the meeting for me uh from the attorney was that you know that what we have to what we have to solve for now are the five affordable units the rental units at the police station site right as part of that um as part of the the settlement agreement for that um you know the affortable housing Attorney K Kelly Grant said if we have to go back and renegotiate it's quite possible that that five is going to turn into seven or eight or whatever right so we just kind of need to bear that and mind as well every time we have to go back to the court you know we're asking for something different I would just add one thing about that real quick um that was a surprise to me just with what the attorney was saying that maybe Our obligation might go up so I think clearly we need to do is go back to them and you know renegotiate all of this um yeah and just I I just wanted to add about the the um police station too is that well I the reason why to it can increase is because of the bonuses if we were going to be taking those bonuses but I don't think that it's punitive and that we didn't want to have to relocate our Police Department spend money and do all these things I mean you know so just to characterize it you know a little bit more correctly and and and I do think in and that I have confidence that I think we can find you know the numbers you know that we' be able to work diligently and find the numbers that we need particularly too without I you know going back to the police station I didn't think it was you know choice for us to the whole idea of Mount Laurel is not for a municipality to be um ex you know expending you know funds to and do all these machinations to Cable affordable housing I just wanted to add not to drawn on at the beginning the meetings that um I spoke to um the colonel at the legion who also talked to me a little bit about veterans housing and some of the um resources that are available and um I I happen to do some work for municipality that is doing some veterans housing I've been looking into it and you know the um speaker there's some going in South Amboy so there's a lot you know there's a lot of some different options out there for small projects and you accessory yeah um and um and also I think another resource that we do have here in the community is uh Community investment strategies that runs Heritage Village which is um a very well-known and and and ordal housing builder in the state um and she has started a nonprofit that provides services at these buildings as well uh for for seniors um and deal with some food insecurity so you know we can learn a lot from some of the folks that are right here uh And in regards to Wells I do have some updates on that as well um so I have been in touch with David hes who's the assistant commissioner for contaminated St mediation and Redevelopment um you know he did respond to my email uh uh asking for Source investigation um and I sent out I believe I sent out an email to a number of people in the community about that uh you know they will conduct a source investigation at some point uh but they have a lot of uh they have a lot of issues across the state so he wasn't willing to commit to in time um and this afternoon I did hear back from Greg bosowski uh who is um with the uh commun community relations coordinator and uh working with him and the mayor of West Dell to set up a meeting uh virtual meeting that'll probably happen either the week of um uh November 25th or the first week of December I'm hoping it's the first week of December because the week of 25th is Thanksgiving week um to to coordinate an online meeting in the evening where the representatives from the D will be available to answer questions offer some uh some some perspective or some information about p and Wells and then have a Q&A session so we are working on that uh and as soon as I have that date firmed up uh it'll be uh be open to both municipalities and residents uh will'll be welcome to join as soon as I have that date I'll certainly send it to all the residents on K Hill um and uh mayor County will advise uh residents of West on that so um we are working through some of these things uh and uh it'll be good that the D will hold it will hold the meeting for for people who have questions or concerns Jes working hand um I'm just curious is there a deadline for the a decision made about the the L development like I just don't know if it's this can just drag on for not forever but you I just want curious if there's a date that's all there isn't okay yeah there isn't uh the court adjudicator is still uh going back and forth with some questions um so I I don't have a realistic idea of how long this is going to go one anyone else in the room yeah just my name is Kathy Williams I live at 84 Corel Street I saw an article this morning on new jersey.com which is the Star Ledger that there are a dozen municipalities that are suing the affordable housing act and West am will just join that soon might be something to consider would just say one thing Kathy whatever they're going to do is going to benefit all of New Jersey if they're able to um overturn anything or change anything um and you know people will remember how much money was spent on the election and with what St and all that so there's a lot of money that people that those towns are spending for that and if they are able to make the change that's great um we're not going to have to pay for that and I understand that West am went up to the back of the high school to see if they could do something there and they said there's no way they would build up there it's crazy got that from Joe the barber good s very good source scho Lauren um Lauren MC Washington Street I'm just curious to follow up on that question about the date on the lamberville high school r development site uh voting what what it is it that we're waiting for to be able to vote I just I guess I don't understand I just like a little bit more clarity about that I I don't know that I can give you any more clarity you know there are certain questions that the council has uh asked of uh of K naan and and the property owner um and theator is acting as kind of a go between between well we're trying certain things that we are trying to ascertain about the project the the um viability of the project all kinds of issues and I really can't go into them because they're they're really conversations that that we're having kind of through the court of Jud or okay okay I just was I just wasn't clear that actually clarifies more what where you are and what's happening and that there's conversation between the council and yeah I mean we've asked we've asked for certain things um and we're we're we're working through the court because uh you know at some point when you have a third party involved you know it's more likely that we're going to get what we want when a representative of the court is kind of asking for for right so you know it's a way to kind of go back and forth on certain things that is uh I don't know what the word it is but um yeah okay that makes sense I didn't I just wanted a little bit more about what was happening where we were with it and why it was delate so that that helps thank you anyone else in the room John Town Sport handc um guess a three- prom question with best uh one what is the city maybe you can't answer this what is the city actually gaining by giving developer rights to build these properties up there you to what you know what is lamal actually gaining from this paying for the storm water management upgrades if that's the case why aren we seeking federal or state grants for that uh instead of relying on a contractor who we obviously know has had a lot of legal problems uh again the council can't answer question because you're not actually there yet but I really would encourage that if if a vote does come up at some point the next six to8 months until the the issue of uh conditions on that Hill being being addressed I certainly hope you guys would be stand up enough to make a motion to table said decision until all those issues are resolved uh I don't know uh it's frustrating up on our hill we don't really have a great grasp of everything I know you guys are giving us a lot of information but it also gets very convoluted espe must be the uh the lower oxygen level up there I guess um or the one down here much cooler and breezier there and third I don't know if the city can can give out a a total number of positives both the primary test and the secondary tests for posos up there but if we could have that information Rel that would be great um just move from there with it so thank you sure um you know what does a city gain that's a big that's a big question uh and you know I'm sure we could all answer it in different ways I think fundamentally the city uh with with the development up there the city gains affordable housing for me I've said this all along that's the that's the thing that I think for me is kind of the biggest gain um the city also gains uh obviously new residents in a new tax base and uh you know it also gains more people and and needs more potentially more infrastructure so you know there's there's a lot I really want to answer that question Beyond saying that for for me and the council's obviously want to speak about this the city would gain some that um it's already the the the amendments to the Revel plan are already tabled so um you know until we you know and I and if something changes with the Redevelopment plan which if it is uh if there are changes I expect there will be changes uh it will need to be reintroduced um because their changes will be significant enough time has passed um so we're not there yet I have no idea what what may or may not happen in regards to reintroduction um and uh um I didn't quite understand your question about keos certainly the um certainly we have a list of everybody who has submitted results to us uh we submitted those uh well uh uh we have them all and we keeping track of them and the state has them the county has them so um you know that's that's what I'm said on that um excuse me I I'd just like to add a a short comment regarding what we gain out of this um you know there's a legal obligation to provide affordable housing work for all municipalities in the state of New Jersey that's my understanding and it's about meeting that obligation for doing the right thing so it's um not something that I think can be easily uh correlated to a specific um um gain such as you mentioned uh John like for example storm water management project it's more about the community benefiting as a whole by broadening our ability to have people of of vared income levels being able to live in our community and that's on the one hand that's the altruistic side but there is a legal obligation that if we don't meet that or attempt to meet it we could find ourselves in other areas that would cost us money and we don't really want to go down that road either so there's sort of two different factors here thank you I think that was a very good question and if I can add there's um you know there's a big concern my concern is is that whatever happens on the hill in that Redevelopment Zone it it to recognize and minimize the downside of building that density on that hill and I'm not satisfied with anything that I've heard at this point that addresses that I hope we can in the near future address the the downside of clearing that uh site of them clearing that site and um you know that's that's safe it's not only for the safety of the people who are going to be living on the hell if it gets a it's the safety of people who are living downside of the hill so you know that that's all in my mind I mean I agree with everything that's been said about how important fair share housing is and how how it adds that it broadens the community as far as residents go and and which which I don't disagree with I do disagree with uh putting the rest of the city at an unknown risk and I don't have all the information right now to make a good decision and I don't know you know we're all working towards that so we're comfortable with with with what's going on but uh you know to at this point now we're still early on in the what is on this project and just make another comment I I mentioned at one of the last meetings that I was going to have my well tested on stord street because number two stord Street which is closer to Swan came up positive and and where I live two three blocks away came back negative for that so it's just just never know where it's going to show up depending on what aquifer you are in and you know what happen on around and I think also I think it's an important point and one I could have maybe said to M Lauren um you know when you talk about we're working we're working together and uh and the things that we are asking of the Court adjudicator we are unanimous on so so uh you know we may have different viewpoints at different times but uh the five of us are are working in tandem working together to uh to come up with what we think are appropriate next steps in terms of the process so um you know I just that I think that's also something to to to like to make and it's all based in the well-being of the community and you know so anyway please go ahead PA sty I got two things real Qui first one um I just not uh the only thing that's turned us uh pointed out to us the importance of the Greeks in here I'll point out that it was 10 years plus a day before IA that I put a boat on South Union Street here above Swan Cree okay so it's we have to really be careful about this this Everybody Talks found I would be in a freak storm like I say 10 years plus a day before um more importantly in terms of the affordable housing um one thing it seems to me I've watched over the last few years is we keep allowing subdivisions of properties in town okay and the most recent one I think I don't know it passed or not is the one down on Lambert Lane part of the uh the uh not n uh fingles property and it was subdivided for two great big housing developments I believe no mistaken before the planning board next next okay it was on the agenda from yeah and I didn't couldn't go but anyway once again it it's you know a big parcel where there is a possibility of maybe only getting one of aable unit but every affordable unit counts and uh maybe we need to slow down on approving subdivisions every time somebody comes by I mean you know the Wilson Street one down on the old wac that was just ridiculous but that's history now um so I mean we do the same thing with parking really you know every time somebody comes in wants a variance for parking seems like it gets given but you know we're going to run out we're running out of parking we're running out of places where we can try to get something that's big enough to get some affordable housing um obviously uh property owners are are able to work within the confines of our existing ordinances to to to devel right so that that's the uh the sing point there um and uh all development that happens in town does generate a development fee which goes into the affordable housing trust fund so that's based on the value the the U uh the assess value of the the finished product so that does go into every every house that's built including you know the ones Delan and the ones on Ferry Street every house that's built in the town Al you know it can't generate an affordable unit it's generating income for the affordable housing trust fund um hi Brian to H Street um thank you very much mayor n for letting us know about the connection between West mwell and Lambertville and de I'm looking forward to that meeting when it gets scheduled um an update for my home I submitted my spill fund application this week and sent it certified mail it's a very very complicated and certified process and one of my concerns is finding out and uncovering what is the source of this contamination and I'm wondering if there would still be a similar type of official certified type of application with the D in order to get like is there because I had to document everything just to get my well approved so SP fund would even consider it I would imagine the D would also have a series of steps and measures that need to be S like documented along the way to find the source of disc contamination just so so I touched on that and I'm happy just to read this email or just forward it from assistant commissioner hes you know he notes that staff his uh staff his program evaluated H well data in area I followed up with a question about that because I didn't know what that what the data originated but I haven't heard back um and he you know he mentions the range uh in this uh in this data set uh and then kind of what the standards are um and he says as such an unknown source investigation is needed in the area to try to identify the origin of these PS fortunately we have a list of cases require sour investigations in our targeting areas with higher levels of T detected inable Wells so this is um the the really the D kind of prioritizing and what is the role of the person that you s he's the assistant commissioner for contaminated site remediation so he said and everybody else I talked to said if you You' got him you know if you're communicating with him he's the person that you should be communicating with so just the personal emails back and forth there's no well they're officially does so yeah I mean a lot of these things just happen through emails and uh you know mayor um C sent a formal letter and I just sent an email the next day uh and this is the this is the response that I got I don't know what near C may have gotten but I have I have communicated with near C and we are sort of working together now to make this meeting happen so did you stress how important it is to find sleep at night yeah they have all the testing and uh and and and you know yeah and I concurrent and it's really great that um the mayor sent a letter he actually had an attorney send a letter which I thought was great umy I know and um I think that if the department drags its feet that we're it's certainly incumbent upon us to ask them that we would like to have the investigation sooner than later I know that they have a lot going on but we we can get in that queue we should get that c and that's an important thing to press on them um in these time so you you know over the trans and emails and you know there isn't as much give and take so as much as my weal is contaminated not to the level of some of the other people in my neighborhood in talking to the people at Garden State Labs there are two houses on our Hill that have the amount of people they have never seen in all the years of testing it's so and that is scary are those two houses next to each other one's in West and one's in they're not close to each other um yeah I know right the mayor you know had sent some of that to DP if we sent some of that to DP I believe with the mapping and and the locations you know as well but not the numbers are and when I spoke with other people about the num numbers who are people who know I do this they you very high numbers which is the reason to continue take emails are good but that you know couple weeks they go you go out of again it's it's the nature of the business that's hi my name is John Fleming 130 Main Street leanon New Jersey since I'm here I might as well chat about this uh bid Administration just came out with an initiative to get rid of lead pipe in the public water supplies do we have any lead pipe in Lor uh almost none at this point everything's been switched out to galvanized all right the second thing is about the wealth determination uh this is not an uncommon problem throughout the Northeast uh not too long ago Rocky Hill had contamination their solution to the water problem was to pull people off the wells and put public water into the those sites that were contaminated do you have any initiatives where you're going to put public water up along the hill to get people off the wells so that we avoid this contamination issue uh we have not requested a study yet uh this is still a reasonably new uh situation so uh you know something that we can talk to the about all right and my last question is uh I know a lot of people on the hill one of the problems is the dump the old town dump I don't believe was ever properly designated to it's it's actually configuration are you doing anything to determine how far that dump actually is is versus what it says on paper uh not right now because it's not our property so you know Cindy spent a lot of time recently going back through minutes uh meetings back into the 50s and 60s looking for information but uh it's not on our property so I I I don't know that there's we don't have any historical record of the actual delineation of the dump so and we're not going to get into a back and forth here no no it's not that it's a matter of if you're going to redevelop the hill if any of that section is it's simple question you're going to do borings to determine if the dump is in that area I mean it's not sorry sir you haven't really been a part of the conversation so we've had this discussion many times that that the Redevelopment plan would require uh the the cleanup of any uh of any site that needed any kind of remediation or closure so okay and the last question about the Redevelopment plan this is not a builder remedy this is actually a Redevelopment plan correct okay thank you're welcome s Hannah 249 sou Street um is the strategy to have identified alternative low-income housing locations prior to talking to the judge and trying to negotiate not doing the firehouse and everything or the police station and everything where is it are you is the group you're putting together trying to devolve that those locations in terms of their viability working on that well we'll we'll talk about that when we get involved in the conversation here yes thank have anybody online no hands are raised there I have a motion tost public comment period Please there a second thank you I public comment um our first resolution evening with resolution number 139 d224 this a resolution to authorize the purchase of an odra mt4 mechanical dual dual broom sweeper through esj Cooperative bid number e NJ 2324 trucks 4 through 8 from Sanitation operation and amount not to exceed $286,700 th000 um Department of Public Works they looked at several different models including uh a new Pelican which is what the city currently has with the fre wheel uh street sweeper uh and in theend uh the recommendations for this particular one which is a four wheels uh street sweeper it's uh that so it's uh it's determin that it's just piece of equipment that is probably easier to maintain over the long run um and uh and it's also about $40,000 less expensive than the next uh than uh the Pelicans so um we worked on this thank you to Cindy and ler for their help on kind of getting this where where where I feel comfortable um and I want to see if there were any questions from the about this what are we going to do with the existing one are we going to try to sell that we are yes I know that West D's interested in purchasing it uh I've asked um Myers the director of the DBW to look into what uh you know what the value is and you know there's not a blue book on these things but uh you can make a couple of calls and get some sense of what of what our sweeper is worth uh and then on Facebook Marketplace there we go so yes we are um and uh yes we'll keep we'll keep youis with that um and just related to that is the reason why how long we have this current how old is it you know I don't remember but I think it's probably close to 20 years it's uh it's still running well at the moment but uh unlike the you know I don't want to take our chances with like the crash truck where we had two crash trucks die before the new one finally came in so it's I think we bought this like 2002 and this new one it's very different than the other one because you can drive it anywhere to get it service and many of the replacement parts you can just you know get online or you know whereas right now we have to put this onto you know a um trailer take it someplace have it fixed and the parts sometimes take time to come in so what happens what this is a question but so what happens when we get the new one the old one we're going to park up at bub works yeah that's we're going s we're going to sell it but but in the meantime we'll put it bu Works our Facebook we'll take pictures we'll get it on public auction we'll get question this big purchase may have a motion to approve resolution 139 2024 please some I'll second it all in favor please say I I I I thank you I want to hear it $300,000 I want to hear a I okay motion motion carries uh the next U resolution was resolution 140 d224 was the resolution to authorize the installation of a fence in the city's RightWay fronting on Swan Street so um this is uh this was brought to my attention by P fling who's here I'm ask to step up to the mic to maybe answer any questions or just give us a short overview um Cory owns the property on 518 with his wife um Tracy and their three children um and wants to construct a fence in the right of way uh kind of it where Swan Street uh R running parallel to Swan Street down by stutter street so um you've looked at the resolution we've had some conversations this is a fence that would be proposed as I said in the right way and the the reiz before the city council is because that's what needs the city council in this instance would be the authorizing agent the improving agent for this Sub sub zoning board or a plan board uh issue come to the come to the city council um just for the edification of the public the fence is approximately 50 feet long 44 feet along swans Street the proposed fence um and uh um constructed a tickets there there are currently um H in place that need to be cut down and um there's a there's a a return on the fence that's about 6 ft long goes back to the back back to another fence or the property line so um you just want to take a couple minutes and talk a little bit about what you're what you're why you're interested in doing this and what what the thinking is yeah so Cory fling it's 95 Crum have is the front of my address it's between 518 and Swan so I start the project um this was a repurpose fence um which fell during Ida um I had the fence we I've been working with the city we've been slowly for the last three years trying to address all of the issues that were caused from the the flooding in that area um you now the city has been good there's been a curve out of that section U but there's still a ton of water that that runs off of the uh the top of the property um this is just to to bolster uh that area again that's where everything's coming down the hill debris large things came down um also I mean it is the city right away it's on my property um there's safety issues with the hill there's no there's no way I can put a fence up as where the right of way um exists because there's a drop down with a a rock wall which is City imp structure I can't build on top of that I can't build below it because it wouldn't it wouldn't help my issue of uh people potentially trespassing and falling or or you know sort of injury taking place in the property um so those are my main issues uh risk quality of life issues obviously that um fenses would bring also with my three small children that's where our bus stop is any way to keep them off the road and secure behind that until they can get that kind of pickup we're planning up there and all that kind of stuff so um those the reason for okay um questions from the council I just had one question I I think it's a good Improvement um just looking at one of the photos that was submitted defense isn't up yet but there's a stop sign at the end you think defense is going to block you stop sign no it's going to be low it's not going to block the stop sign it's not going to block any view of the street there's a twoof foot offet um and I mean I speak to Aesthetics but I mean when it's all done it'll have plantings and stuff flowers it'll look good for my concern was only the stop sign yeah no no no visual issues with that it's a straightway through there so no no you you have a difficult property i' I'm I'm toally you know I'm okay with this I I think that it's it'll be helpful and um and it's it's fine in our way of play yeah I'm I'm also um supportive of this I just have a question about kind of a dumb question but like what would happen with snow removal where does the snow go it's it won't be any uh I mean it's possible that they when they're plowing the snow come on the curve there's aot section there rest against the they can stack it up yeah and again it's uh 44 ft of Street side and there's a big gap in between um a little parking areaa next so and so the fence is a stock a fence so it's a closed picket fence there's not going to be openings no a traditional what I see is what I have a picket fence where there's spacing between the PI right where you sag pick it I mean I have that ability but um no I was I'm just right next to each other and can you describe the height the height he yeah I'm reusing it was a 4 foot um fence and then again approximately 50 ft of of length I I thought it was three foot it's three foot three three foot is what the zoning was since it wasn't I was asking for a 4 foot if if that's an issue it can be three foot yeah I'm sorry I missed that completely so I think that I proposed this as a three-foot fence to the council as a three foot fence okay feet from the street three feet high yeah from the street though so we'll go down the foot on the other side so like you know your street you've got the curving 3 feet from the curving up yeah from the top top the Cur yes is that even the return is that 3T the return like we have the parallel one 42 foot area yeah 3et what about everything everything about six foot area that would be 3 everything would matter the um you know this years ago we the council was t with approving Street openings for parking and for driveways and it it became so controversial at the time or eventually that we gave it over to the board because just to have us decide on whether someone could do a curve cut or not so so as as we chip away at the things that the council can do and why abort shouldn't do it uh um there's there there's parts of an ordinance uh about fences and sorry that there's not a professional here to guide us through this but if if the if the use of the fence is to stop potential runoff from wherever it's coming down the street that's not the fences are not permitted to go to the ground they just yeah it's just to build up the property building up the property there up to the curb uh curb height and again the main issue is that there's a safety issue on the side of the no but what I'm saying is is is I I I don't think the council has has the power to ignore an ordinance that's in place to have that fence elevated so water will go underneath it if you if you read if you read the you know I don't like to be the bear of funky news but you know we make a decision like there certain things that the council can do and certain things that we can't do and there's a part of Defense ordinance that specifically calls out storm water flow you know and the goal of this is to stop storm water it's not a dam it's not a dam yeah so I think it's more like de breed stuff too you were talking about it's not necessarily water it's the just trash and objects and everything flying down the hill show the bottom of the fence be slightly above ground level yeah okay that would permit the flow water water get open the curve anyway to even affect that because you're going how far from the curve line back is it 2 Fe okay um any other questions from so I I um question well I just like to acknowledge the fact that I know what's been happening now at your property for years I've been down with with past mayors alongside that Creek you know pass since since the posed away and I understand you also have fenes along or you had fenes along that for security of kids falling in the um so you know it's as we start to wrestle storm water management I think there's going to be exceptions to the rules and if this is going to improve your safety and the safety of of uh your your house and from run off them you know at this point we don't have anything to substitute it with so you know we uh you know I was hoping that the curb would answer your question but would solve your problem and I think that that was you know I had asked the mayor if if we can talk to our professionals about this before we give we we don't have their input here to help us make a decision about you know what's what what the impact of something like this would be and would it solve your problem and you I feel badly for now that we're involved with storm water management I I I would not vote on this until I heard our our engineer who has been dealing with storm water management to weigh in on a solution to help you solve problem and uh I feel strongly about that I mean I don't want to say no no but I would rather uh at this point but I would rather have input from the person who is who is writing and rewriting or storm water management board that that's currently under public review to have him come up take a look hear your concerns and see how we can duvail that into what we're doing Citywide so I I I'm not comfortable voting yes and it's not personal they'll get me wrong it's like we're we're I would feel I I'm not an engineer I'm not a designer uh I'm I'm not don't have the experience uh or the uh or the Professional Knowledge to make that decision here tonight and that's why I'm personally if if it comes to a vote tonight I think you you pretty sure that there the people are going to agree with what you want to do but I I'm not going to vot for thank you um are there any other questions or I would just note that the um you the resolution gives the city the right to remove it within 90 days so we could address those issues down the road if we have it and still let you put it up now so I'm I'm okay moving forward I I I sincerely doubt that that will over Happ just if we if we adopt a resolution I would ask uh you know Mr to just sign uh a statement saying that uh you know just I mean as part of the resolution back just brought some very to that as well yeah so um you know when I think about where a fence the proposed fence will be I you know I agree when you when you walk up or you walk down the hill you've got a cross at the crosswalk and and you know you really run into a dead end somewhere and I can I can understand the desire for offense and let me say I'm sympathetic I live on the hill too and and I get my basement flooded on a regular basis on a regular basis from no storm water management further up the hill so I understand where you're coming from but my point is I don't feel comfortable making that decision without an engineer Ling it um I feel comfortable making a decision did I say so no you may not it's no public participation until later on the meeting so no we don't recognize the public accept it the appropriate times um so is a motion or any further discussion on this um I'll make a motion and move the resolution second okay have I'm coun yes counc yes counc stman abstain council president yes may no yes thank okay moving on to resolution number 141 2024 this resolution authorizes a contract with Bristol environmental for pain stabilization of the lamberto free public library and an amount not to exceed $138,000 plus Howard disra disposal fee of [Music] $5,000 uh so this I'm pleased to say is uh the end result of uh a lot of work uh to find the contractor who will deal with the lead paint issue on the library so uh this if everybody remembers this has been out to uh to bid twice now we subed RP out twice uh which then gave the city the ability to uh seek uh out individual contractors and negotiate a price I think this is a a great price the uh the funding ordinance was number 04224 we funded $320,000 for the paint remediation and painting of the library uh as well as um repointing where necessary so um if this moves forward uh the company will begin to do the work in the spring it's too late now but um I'm personally pleased with kind of what this how this bid came out and uh where we are so there questions or concerns from the Council on this we got a bid I know and Michael burs I know really worked hard with that I know there were a couple rounds so appreciate all of this time with that yeah yeah no it's going to look great yes it is we got the colors now you know as soon as we adopt this resolution we can maybe start looking forward on painting um RFP so we just get all our ourain brushes get our paintbrushes lined up in a row um so I have a motion to adopt a resolution just one thing two I think the one thing that we do need to find out is whether or not the library can be open during that time and can okay so yeah we've already I've already talked to J Ira I think out of an abundance of caution uh it's probably going take a couple of weeks it makes the most sense to close the library um so that that that was a good question thank you for asking that um is there a motion to adopt resolution 141 2024 second all those in favor please say I I okay you guys have it unanimously thank you yes on to discussion items uh just an update on the Ed charging project I think we talked a little bit about this um I think we're really just ready to throw a towel on it based on the the high costs and the the excessive amount of red tape the complications that this is going to cost so just wanted to make sure that that was okay with everybody here on the council um we still have a bonded amount for that which will we can talk about at some point um $72,000 um which we you know could either pay down or reallocate or just kind of let sit there it's part of the it's now it's not it's not it's no longer in a not it's part of the long-term financing so you know we've got some you can think about that a little bit F any questions on that I would just add that Lindsay and I met with the vpu and they were very helpful in trying to find some uh additional sources of grants for us but we were unable to do so uh but they did give us a lot of really neat ideas for thinking about stuff in the future so it was a really great meeting and thanks to the BPU president who the Lille resident who help set that up so yeah thanks um we have some uh I think Lindsay and Cindy want to talk about some proposed amendments to the short-term rental coordinance just get those get on our radar yeah absolutely so Lindsay actually did a lot of work on this and and you know she's really been kneed deep in it so um this is her first uh write of an ordinance I'm going to let her uh handle it this I wish you the best of luck with the mic oh speak loud so over the summer we met between ourselves and the Fire Marshall and the construction and zoning office to kind of get a handle on managing occupancy in short-term rentals we had noticed that some of the the listings had really outrageous number of allowable guests and we weren't really sure how to ctail that um both for fire hazard and safety and parking and a multitude of other reasons so we kind of all got together to suggest some amendments to the ordinance that just builds in some regulations for occupancy in short-term rentals um can the zoning officer helped make kind of a chart to determine the allowable occupancy based on the square footage of the rental unit and I think that that's going to be really helpful so that is one of the changes just adding that calculation and then there are just a few other kind of small changes we added a definition of allowable occupancy um some con is for non-compliance and um the requirement of the submission of a floor plan for the first time um application for the first time someone's applying to rent their property short term after just anybody new or is this going to be a retroactive requirement we're going to go retroactive and then it will also be for any new um application thank you and there's also going to be a statement that just explains that two occurrences of excessive occupancy could prompt the revocation of their permission to operate and that is pretty much it the only other change that we've included is um relating to the fire inspections it's not related to occupancy but Frank the Fire Marshall wants to require that the units are insed every six months so that's just clearly written in here now he suggested having the inspections in March and September annually that's pretty much all of the the changes that we have kind of muddled through I have a question who who inspects property that to to be sure that all these new points are enforced the fire inspector does his thing but who checks the occupancy who makes sure the other things that are done in the well we have we have the square footage from the tax assessor's office of the building and they will be supplying the floor plan that'll also demonstrate square footage so it's slightly based on a good faith truthful floor plan but we'll have a little bit of information to back that up and kind of verify so I think between the two we'll have a a relatively good estimation that they're telling the truth and you know we instituted something years ago to curtail a group rentals in a house where people would just put uh CS in the basement and just rented people and it was a big deal and it was happening in many cases so and I and I just don't I don't know who inspected those at that time well that was back in 2007 when we first started with the landlord but the law changed and you cannot go into somebody's house now and and verify and do an inspection so um Marsh but um so Ste here's what we've done this is the way we've handled it especially for short-term rental anyway they file their application I verify the application with the listing that we find on verbo or Airbnb and and believe me renter people who are have the short-term rental U properties are getting mad at us for doing that they said we have no right to do that sorry but I do and then um you're not sorry no I'm not sorry and then um if it's an outrageous or it doesn't look um like it fits the application I called them and um I've had two property owners that I said I asked for them to listen you can I can't go with your number and if you're not willing to go with my number I said then and what we used with Ken's definition of what you could have based on the square footage of the room I said then you need to get a an architect to certify the size of the rooms and so they both did and came back to us and and then we came to a a middle agreement based on on this and what the architect submitted the other thing too that we discussed is this if it's a short-term rental you should only be able to rent out the bedroom you shouldn't say okay the couch so we discounted all of that you know the ordinance says bedroom only so people were putting in say oh I I have a pull out couch so that's how I got that number no that number doesn't count because it's not a bedroom you're only renting allowed to rent the bedroom so uh I think this will address all of those concerns and let us bring it together for us and if if we find out that they are not in compliance with this who has the rights who how do they get how does it get fixed I believe it comes back to me and then um I'll have to in the ordinance now they'll have two occurrences of non-compliance so I'll have to either call them and follow up what after a phone call I either follow up via email or I send a letter confirming our conversation so we'll have a record and if there's two occurrences then I have to take them to court it seems like a heck of a lot of work for someone to take on I have to tell you this has been a heck of a lot of work know quite personally it seems like a lot of work and responsibility for a city clerk to have to make sure the inspections are done do it herself uh as an employee of the city and be responsible for short-term rentals which were such a public outcry against and to take this wrap it up and give it to a city clerk to admin to administer and go who is also though the administrative officer for the city of lamberville by code so I where many and you know if it lands in my La it lands in my left I think the key is if we are having you do that work we have to make sure the fees that we're collect Team and that was my my question was going to be so now that we've had the ordinance and you've done this work for you know a couple months do we need to adjust the we raised them pretty substantially last year I'm not worried about the application fit right what we may have to address is the lead paint right and and we're working through I think we need like six months more because now we just hired this company that will help us with that so we'll see where that falls it we may come back to you and say we don't need $100 or or hey you know now it's costing more but we just need to have a little bit more of a history to build up confidence in what we're going did you happen to look at other municipalities that are wrestling with this and how they are approaching it as far as Administration or or inspections or any of did I did not no because we're need deep in this no I understand I understand the amount of work it was to get that's why I'm concerned about oh we're also getting tax revenue from it too though I'm sorry we're getting tax revenu from it as well and a lot of this you know is just a one-time thing right so so setting setting the maximum occupancy is a onetime thing we have a finite number we have not had any new applications since we passed the ordinance I don't think two I believe okay but we've also lost a couple so we're not talking it's not like I mean it's it's worked for sure uh but it's you know I would argue that the the annual landlord registration is more work substantially because the numberers four times higher five times higher whatever right absolutely so um these are just additional I mean and we knew that we were going to be looking at you know looking at this ordinance again at some point um just to make some tweets and and also it took us a lot to get the base for the landlord not short-term rent but for the landlord and so we're up to about 265 um and that uh because we anyway so so we've got them now into the system and so next year should be a lot smoother and it should be a lot easier you know we always say But Lizzy promises me it'll be a lot easier but but honestly Kudos Sindy because 75% of her time goes to landlord you know I've been helping out with the short-term rentals I've been handling most of those we have about 45 48 um of the short-term rentals coming through much smaller detail than what what Lizzy has to deal with but um you know I think these changes will be for the the better of um the user for the people visiting the city and for us to be able to enforce have we' been getting uh any significant amount of complaints about the b&bs I know there's been some small I Le initially but they've really dropped off not had any well plus every neighbor is a police so we would hear anecdotally from yeah Lieutenant Brown would let me know if there were issues with any Airbnb yeah I I was just concerned about I was concerned thank you I appreciate that you know the workflow that will be transferred at one point well we may have to come back to you and say we need more help but okay as of today you know we're we're muddling through and we're right and and you know I know the the short-term rentals are a small part are there some part of the $30,000 we're getting every month in taxes for Hospitality right so yeah you know that's a Mak some value there um will you be ready to introduce to will we be ready to introduce these amendments on the 24th okay good thank you um historic preservation ordinance update uh I'm Cindy and I met on September 24th with David rinsky and uh Andrea timley from the state historic preservation office who been an hour and a half going through the ordinance which as everybody probably knows by now taken just a really almost a year uh in conversation and edits and work um and we're very close um to to to presenting an ordinance back to them uh at the November meeting the the the the work session in November we're going to discuss um the the way the commission is presently set up it's set up it's a strong commission um weak no it's pretty much I think that some of it is I just have okay anyway so in at at the the the meeting in in November um our City attorney Bill op is going to just generate a memo for the council about the difference between a weak commission and a strong commission I want to make sure that the council's comfortable with um the strong commission Lisa Easton who's the chair of the HPC will be here on that night to answer questions and to promote a strong commission for the AG can we get that ahead of time yeah of course absolutely because that's a lot to digest yeah no absolutely you know uh purposely you know in town have had a certain structure and I'm not quite sure how this yeah we haven't been and and had arrived at the commission structure that we have because we liked it and I'm not sure you know some people you know there are various um you um theories and historic preservation but I don't I'm personally am not a favor of the heavy hand um I don't think we that kind of a community you know but but I don't know what it is so I have to read all discuss it's like send us a comprehensive we don't really want to become come the paint police um councilwoman the only thing I want to throw out there is during our discussion shipo is packing up and moving and so they said they may not be able to get some things back to us until early January so F so we're not going to we're not going to be introducing this put it out there yeah we'll TR and talk about it November if it takes more than one meeting or two meetings make sure everybody's comfortable I want to make sure the council's comfortable before we introduce the ordinance that's uh that's that's all I want to say um don't use new hopes as as to go by I haven't read I have my opinions about pain but I don't want uh they don't um advise on course no but it's you know we'll go through yeah we'll go through it I love I love they're the porch fence Wars where you know like it's it's important not allow the historic exception you know anyway I I look forward to the to the discussion with public and and the professionals on that all right great uh affordable housing advisory committee so once again councilman live and I talked to Michael Sullivan and Elaine klish and um uh Kelly Grant uh at a meeting on October 3D just kind of to flesh out this uh this topic a little bit more and uh I want you to jump in uh here councilman um but I I think that as we consider establishing an affordable housing advisory committee we really have two options um uh one is to do a committee that is um uh Ju Just an ad hoc committee that's sort of set up however the council wants to set it up uh and they can meet when they meet uh and that would not be a public facing committee it would be a committee that reports to the council so that would be one way to do it the second way to do it would be to create an advisory uh committee that uh is uh uh is constructed under the u under under an ordinance um that would have public meetings public comment all of that so that would be the second way um I think in terms of both both groups what we've been advised uh you know to consider would be that you have uh a member of your Council there you have a member of your zoning board there you have a member of your planning board there and you have anywhere from two to four members of the public um also participating hopefully at least a couple of those members have some expertise or experience or history with affordable housing matters and issues and I know that we have uh a number of people in the city who have either worked as Court Masters or have some professional experience or whatever so um have I missed any of the points there so I wanted to sort of see the council had particular uh you know one is obviously you know it's going to require a little bit more time to set up um you know we'll have to write ordinance fill to kind of look at it we'll have to you know talk about it a little bit more um or you know you want to just do something more ad hoc and uh see where that goes I would just say my my preference through this whole project is to try to get as much public involvement as possible I think obviously affordable housing is a very important issue for everyone here and so uh we obviously want to do that but we also don't want to make it too big where we can't accomplish what we need so I think it's that fine balance um and uh you know I I think as I said earlier today I don't think this is going to address the situation we have up on the hill but this is just sort of thinking about how we done affordable housing in the past and you know maybe missed opportunities Bill indicated you know maybe there's a different way to do this so that's what this hope would be [Music] so wait that map was so short thank you so if we did an ad hoc committee how would visibility public visibility be attained I dou start with Bill I don't know that they they would what's that bill um I don't know why a a ad hoc committee couldn't hold a public meeting that you know I don't really see you know the the this the difference I seeing is you're codifying one and make putting these requirements out where if you have a committee that you appoint just like you know there's the we have the reliability Grant or the sustainability resiliency sorry you know there was a meeting about it you know we could they could have public meetings and have input I mean the committee isn't making any decisions so I don't know necessarily why we would really have to do an ordinance and do you know do a do a thing I think they would have more fluidity if they were an ad hoc committee and held Public public you know meetings you know I mean yeah I mean there's a lot of there's also a lot of you know um when you have the ad hoc situation too you know there's a lot of education for folks that are going to serve on this you know Committee of having you know people come in and kind of be able to to um you know really describe what you're talking about when you're talking about building affordable housing on your own and and different things and I just you know I don't know put a K in an ordinance and making all these requirements seems a little cumbersome when you can have a committee that can operate and and if you have a good chair you know there's some activities and you know the the education component if they feel like opening it up to the community fun if not if they educate themselves and then have a community meeting you know I I think that's you know that's that's good too so um and just you know which is sprung on me you know thinking it through I don't you know because it it's not like the environmental commission you're always going to deal with environment you're GNA unless you want to have a committee by ordinance where you you know I'm thinking like do you want somebody to have oversight over the trust fund or over what happens to you know I don't I don't know that we need that or we need that I would I ask uh I would ask Cindy and Lindsay for input on that but I would that's the only reason why I would go to an ordinance because then that then they would have more formal responsibilities of reviewing that and making that public otherwise I think the ad hoc committee could probably be you know start out with that see how it's like a little more fluid we could do a lot more education and you know play around with the number a little bit in that that's my I'll stop I think the key is the transparency and I think that's what a lot of members of the public were concerned about that the stuff is happening behind the scene and there don't have access to it so I think that's just I think everyone wants transparency as much as possible how do we uh if we don't come up with some kind of system here how do we have how do we pay the professionals to come to that to a meeting of the committee because if it if it's I'm not against I'm pay all the time to do that I mean I think some of it more is you know seeing what the need is you know I I don't think they're going to be commanding you know or having Michael or lane or whoever is working on the number here I think we were talking more a little bit in my mind maybe about pulling from the expertise that people have and have it be a little bit more free flowing you know um that's that's all I mean sometimes I think we get like all wrapped up in this formality and making and and these rules that we kind of lose the ability to have have a discussion and and and and and like make it a teachable moment back and forth well my my concern is is is how how do people get educated on this committee I bring bring you it's everybody's ideas you know it's like once you get the committee and you get some ideas of oh like if we want to build housing for you know people with cats let's bring in people who who have built housing for people with cat you know what I mean like just that cats are a funny thing these days but you know but I you know I think it's an evolving thing I think we don't know what it is and what are the ideas and then maybe you you try to find you know oh meeting we're going to talk about veterans or this meeting we're going to talk about um you know there's Medicaid money to help like this we're gonna but you're you who knows who you ask for that could we could certainly try with the ad hoc and then if that's not working oh sure yeah well so so I mean my suggestion would be that uh you know we just budget a certain amount next year for the committee right and you know the committee I I'm just throwing this out right the committee decided to meet monthly you know we could we could have Des you know we could have a a determined amount that you know somebody from Park and H comes to every other meeting just to make sure that we're not getting too Airy faery or Barfield right so that we have a little bit of structure and a little bit of expertise in the room but so you know I mean it's just a little bit of an investment and maybe it's a quarterly thing I don't know but I think to your point in terms of uh at least initially I I would really want someone from you know someone who's got really that expertise to sort of at least be there at the beginning and then to check in every couple of months or every quarter right so or available for questions even for writing it's just a question of setting a number for the budget really and if this is a priority first which I I'm pretty sure it is um you know that's not okay that's not well that that answers my question thank you I'm taking my apple back you can't I think the um ad hoc committee makes sense for a couple of reasons um first of all it's it's the most expedient right we can get it done quicker get it up and running quicker not done but up and running and that's good because there is some urgency around this and the public wants to hear about it but it also helps us kind of build a prototype for what if we decide we need an ordinance in the future we you know we have this little pilot to say oh it's you know this is how many people we should have this is meeting frequency these are the areas they should be discussing it helps sort of you know build out what an ordinance should look like because otherwise it seems like you be building a house without any idea of what how many rooms are you know what we're going to be needing and that's a little bit I don't think we have that information yet good yeah it's a nice metaphor too talking about housing yeah pretty just pain all right so um Let's Get Down of grass tax for a couple minutes so in term of the makeup of the so so it sounds like we're all okay with doing an ad hoc advisory committee for the time being right so uh in terms of the makeup do we all agree that we should have somebody from the planning board somebody from the zoning board um somebody from the council uh and then two two to four residents yes I think that's I think that's a good start absolutely right I'd probably say probably four rather than two residents just because you know I'd prefer to have a little bit more residents so four as opposed to two but you know okay it's you're H guy right well well perhaps we can have one one of a representative from each of the zon um I don't know just a cover to cover the city let's talk a little bit about that kind of uh offline I think give it some thought and I'll check in with everybody but I think there's no reason why we can't be you know now having these conversations uh just in terms of a process uh you know I I would reach out to the zoning and planning boards all of these appointments uh suggested appointments um would be made by the council and we would V know right so I don't necessarily have to be the guy that points and you guys have to you know I'm open to ideas and conversations about this so so I'm sure we get a lot of res on involv okay I I think we've got enough to start here um so I'm going to toh to move on to the next subject um which is temporary signage and sandwich boards in the CBD um so just a little update about the bridge as everybody knows the bridge has a structural issue which is going to necessitate uh couple of nights closure in December and uh twoe closure in January uh and the continuation of oneway traffic through uh the end of the year so um which year well well I worked the end of 2024 so you know I had I've already had a couple of business owners come visit me in office hours um to talk about this and um I've met with Carolyn G from the chamber um and you know we're looking for ways in which we can and just will stir you know um the business community and support them one of the ways that we talked about was to just uh you know have have these aing signs that the chamber would buy and and they would just be sort of sweet little reminders at at different intersections I would work with the chamber to make sure that they weren't they're meeting the adaa requirements that you're to sidewalk with and all of that just remembering people that reminding people that hey down here in Lambert Lane there's some great shops or galleries or whatever right so it's a pretty low rent idea of just making sure that people remember that you can actually turn right on Church Street if you're a pedestrian and go down and look at the shops there so um you know the chamber proposing to purchase these and I'm more than happy to to work with them um on that um I would also say that um uh you know another idea that's been floated and I floated this I've actually been talking about this idea off and on for the last couple of years I would love to see if there was one night a week from time to time uh a weekend night when some of the businesses would consider staying open till 9:00 so um what what I what I would like to do in conjunction with the chamber is maybe send out a letter to all the businesses in the second of business district to see if uh they would be willing to stay open until you know 8:30 or 9:00 on a Friday night throughout the holiday hopefully that might generate a little business of people are eing restaurants and that kind of thing and it's obviously voluntary and would also just be a way for us to show that we're committed to the success of the community and maybe we need to be thinking about this in a slightly different way as a community maybe we lean into it uh even though some shop owners may not want to do it Etc so that's another idea that I have what I'd like to so get out there in the community and we'll probably just draft a letter and to Lo them to all the businesses and see if anybody's interested in participating so just a couple of things there and um Carolyn sent some science specifications I've sent them to the council um and I just wanted to open this up to any conversation um they were looking to do kind of white um Sandwich Board science um they could be black but uh I spoke to Carolyn yesterday and they they think that white would be kind of a little crisper and a little you know just uh you know they have preference for white we'll just not that so well I I uh I think white will show every stuff and dirt and it's in the winter and there'll be salt on them and all this great stuff so I prefer not to look not not for it to look like PVC in the in uh which it will be uh in a city where we just talked about doing a historic preservation ordinance in committee uh so um I I I would you know I I'm all for putting them out and it's for limited amount of time until we can really wrestle the problem of sandwich boards throughout the city which which have been a problem for the 25 years that I've had a business here and live here it's the sandwich boards have been you know that but that's a whole another conversation but you know I would prefer that they wouldn't be white that's all just because if they're a dark color it looks more like it's not what the material that they're made they made is it's it's F not a FL but this plastic it's like yeah it opens up and it's perfect for what they want to do I that problems with what we have like that's okay president I guess I could wash them but I don't have a preference well we're gonna have to pay so have to a preference well the guy last remember that which is always occasionally advantageous I don't have any preference on the color I just want to thank Liz and Caroline for all the great work they're doing with the chamber because I it's up to you take your app they're paying for them they're paying for them no I I appreciate the work that they're doing so much they're put so much energy into this and and you know it might be nice white it's the new color it new thing it's the future we're not going back we're going ahead thank you all right well well I will say I will say this the only person sitting on this deis that has had a business in this city at all it's me and dealing with dealing with other businesses and being the chamber president for many many years I could say honestly that white is not a good idea and it's it's it it it is those are my two cents and I'm bat in a thousand tonight I can I can tell that but as long as the Mets win so here's what we're gonna do I'm I'm fine I'm fine with it but uh we're going to do a roll call though we we're good on we're good on the idea we're do a roll V on call we don't have a motion um somebody please make a motion to I'm not make a motion well well I won't even vote how about that so you four can decide councilman I had a white car and I've had a black car and my black card shows the dirt more than my white c b that's right that's not because you drive f well I I just feel if the chamber they are business people and with respect to your experience and you know contributions to our business Community we are you know these people also run businesses today and I don't know this is what they want well they they let me just say this the thing that they want is head on beds and butts in chairs and cash and money in their cash register I don't think the focus of the business community in general do the right thing but if we're going to try to to sell this city or promote this city as a historical City then we have to we have to be very con cognizant of how we do that and I think how we do that is when we do something it should look it should it should have some kind of historical reason I said black is because broad Iron's black there's RW iron fences in this town you know and and wooden fences and all this kind of stuff but you know but if if we have an image that we want to propose it should reflect the historic nature of this town and I don't think that that in this particular case uh that that a eight eight or nine white collapsable sandwich boards add to the historic nature of the of the Street Furniture that this is becoming we you know we have we work with the chamber I was involved when we put up the directional signage uh on the poll that are there they you know and that's why they're they're not white that's why you know that when when the street sign went up on on the light when the lighting poles go up on the newer ones we ask that they be black and not white or or aluminum the streets the the the the the rout signs that you see Bridge Street off bridge street they the background except for one is not is not uh do green it's it's cranberry to reflect the the the historic nature of the city and that's and and the do did that for for they they they did it because that's what Trenton did in their historic district so all of these little things keep keep chipping away the historic nature of the city and and that's where I'm coming from you know what what whatever you know I'm not against putting things on the sidewalk I think it's a great idea uh especially during this time period but um you know I'm I'm not for the beach chair that winds up in the little park where the Christmas tree is every summer that doesn't reflect the city at all so I think we have to be careful when we make our decisions about what the visual impact is and what we're trying to do and that's that's quite two cents for the day I think you bring up some good points but this is only tempor and everything's temporary everything's temporary temporary no I'll tell you why temporary it's because the knes can be used for other events uh that the chamber is doing like the turkey trout or a register here a pler could be out it's not it's only temporary until they're used again and and uh you know there was there was a big enough discussion when when the streets uh during the Shad Festival when the posts that held the ropes and the stanions were just cat litter five gallon cans and no one did anything about them it's how you present the city it's important so I don't disagree with any of that but I think it's a temporary measure I think these businesses I think they're in a good position to decide what they I mean they're the business owners they're the ones who are directly affected the business owners the business owners who are who are not making decisions you know we we put the decorative trim on the meters that went out and did that so it didn't look like every other you know like every new city so I'm it's my perspective here here's what I'm going to suggest I'm going to suggest we approve the concept and and uh and let the the chamber choose uh you know the sandwich boards are all over to they're not legal and so you know this is temporary I think that the chamber should be able to purchase these and um I'm not going to I'm not picking a so I make the motion we approve the sandwich board do we need a motion I don't you know we don't have resolution I was just looking for a general looking stri that everybody good I'm good good okay I'm good all right what color and we're all temporary We're All Temporary yes some days I wish I were more temporary than others um all right moving on best practice inventory uh this is resolution number 142 2024 the resolution to approve the best practice inventory and authorize the city clerk and the cmfo to submit it to the state of New Jersey so every year we uh look at our practices uh it's actually a fairly uous we spend a lot of time reviewing uh best practices throughout the city uh and various Department safety Bly kind of everything um and uh the way this works is the higher your score the more Aid you get St paid so the gole of year is always to have at least of 35 uh and that will qualif that will qualify the municipality for uh its complete percentage of state aid um so we got a 45 this year which will be submitted um and so we will have our full am state aid and I don't know how many IP alties don't do this I would imagine that they well no but I how many get the get the full state aid yeah certainly but now this is the third year interesting to read that that you don't pass you you know you you you put your state a at risk if you don't yeah y absolutely it's written in black and white yep with a blue background um so are there questions from the council none I'd ask for motion to approve resolution 142 2024 don't move second all in favor motion carries uh we have our first ordinance reading tonight um this is Anin ordinance 21-2024 it's an ordinance to amend the lamber Phil city code 2014 chapter 2 article 9 Department of Health welfare and housing social services and public [Music] assistance um the state uh Lam V is has been I think an anomaly for some time now in terms of it's uh an Department that is a general assistance that maintains the general assistance program I think that there were only a handful left of the state too and we are one of them the state is now had requiring us to move this over to the county so um uh the general assistant program will be handled by the county started on November first um and so we uh need to adopt this ordinance in order to dissolve The General [Music] so the city will handle November 1st but technically ooc November 1st will be issued October 31st and then everything has to go to the county so um yeah and and um Bambi will remain uh with the city until the end of the year to help with any transition any kind of uh you know uh questions or you know administrative stock relating to any of the the the files or the finances or anything like that so um we're going to introduce this tonight and um uh if there are any questions from the council if it doesn't if we don't introduce it well let's just move right to an introduction is there somebody who's willing to offer a motion to introduce his ordinance can I ask a question absolutely I'm sorry um yeah um so it's more it's more about the function I mean we don't I don't think we really have a choice about this because it's a requirement of the state so you know we have to support it um but my question is just about um the general assistance uh resource will there be an do we anticipate a need to extend her services in 2025 for any reason we do not uh there will be no there'll be nothing offered City will have nothing to offer everybody has to go to the county it's going to have to go to to the county offices um and don't forget we have Fisherman's Mark too who has worked with Bambi for years um as much as as we hate to see this go to the county I think that once it goes you know Bambi will be here to help with the transition through the end of the year and Bridge any Gap that we might have and and and um then what she'll also do is work with department heads so that we know the best place to send people when they come in um but you know three months will Happ it's not a lot of trans it's not a lot of time to transition a function like this um it's pretty short it's really just 60 days right um and I have my doubts as to whether or not this this will be buttoned up by December 31st um and then I'm not sure uh what what we would be doing I think there'd be a lot of scrambling and um I don't know it just um be nice to have a resource that we have access to that could help us if we gotten champ that's all yeah um I I just I have a question too about um the pr trust like will all that stay with the city so no and this is a conversation I think that we should probably have offline I had a little bit of a conversation with Bill about the trust so you know there is a private trust in the city that uh that is maintained by a group of Trustees but it's not associated with the the city at all uh so you know there are some questions and concerns about you know there has been some crossover in terms of um access to trustees uh you know who may you know who may work City Hall but we need to have we need to we need to talk to the City attorney about this it's a private trust um and so you know I've expressed some questions and some concerns about the the the the running was essentially a trust out of a municipal uh City Hall sure or just how it will operate or does it operate but and then yeah I mean yeah but then so then maybe I just rephrase the question of just well how will that work or and maybe we need to have a moment to understand the whole yeah just because it has certainly you know it's like not a secret you know people kind of know about it so you know it's something that I think we need they their own by walls and everything right but so now if we're making this move we just cuz some people say oh well we got the trust or oh they yeah you know some folks have you know kind of I always got the impression R you know that it was like this back stop you know and so it is and the pr trust has uh has taken good care of residents and they made uh you know certainly they paid for permits for uh work done after Ida so it's been an incredibly generous organiz you know trust right um but uh you know the're I I I don't really want to talk about this right now I think it's more appropriate to kind of talk about it I'm sorry I don't I don't have a question about the pro trust but what about the city's emergency fund how will that be where does that fall so we we do have the emergency fund we have procedures in in line for it we have an application form that people will fill out and then it'll go um through the the process just like it does now so it stays in the city yeah that's out but you yeah so they're kind of yeah right so yeah right that's definitely the other question like two different things but there's a way to to do that next right there is yeah and in fact we worked on that a lot last year to come up with the policies that I you help that presid you anyway that was one of our Auditors of it one of the the Auditors that helped us you know put together Mis remember a motion I think there a second second okay all in favor of first reading ordinance number 21224 with a public hearing at second meeting on October 24th 2024 please say I I I extensions or notes okay motion carries a couple of announcements here columus day U Monday the city offices closed C prom is having a Halloween window decorating contest uh visit participa business to check plays and both to your favorite online of Chambers website the uh historicaly house tour is happening on October 27th uh p jce is coming Sunday on October 13th um the pet masade is not happening this year you know I that um s to say uh well the invisible talks that's right um Convenience Center hours are as noted October 16th 3: to 5: and Saturday October 19th from 9 to noon um and we will now open this up to the second public participation same policies as before you have 3 minutes of uninterrupted plan for comments or questions you get your name and address before you speak Paul how many people do we have on line right now only three but at one point we had seven thank you stens 39 cor Street I just want to thank Lindsay and S for working on the short-term rental ordinance uh one possible suggestion to think about because some of these people could get rather creative I'm guessing you're going to look online again and see all right how many are they staying versus the bedrooms submitted with the drawings but then the drawings not sure where those are going to come from or the quality one thing you could consider is looking at the tax records to see what's uh how many rooms we think they have I don't know that's in there is it I don't know seems like there's found to be somewhere we look at the tax record we send it to the LM to see how many hookups they have I mean we really very thorough good thanks I just try I appreciate it though and and every minute that we get we're online checking yeah they do they they do take a look from time to time just to see if any UNS have cropped up and I think we've had one or two youve had s letter to right was there one that we had to say you're now you just started this and you can't join yes yes so um we are keeping an eye members of the public wish make any comments or have any questions anybody onine no have a motion close the public per please second okay sure uh actually I've approached you before about this when you say your name South Street we rent houses and some people are really really really crafty about signing a oneyear lease with the intention of having airbnbs put in and you have to be kind of Savvy when you interview them because they aren't going to tell you up front but if you pick it apart so this is happening I don't know I have a one-year lease and if they're suting you come after me or do you come after the person that's we we so when when we're looking online and we see these list they pose they pose as they're going to live there but they'll trick you well well certainly if actually it happened two or three times and I'm kind of amazed I I think it's kind of a hot spot and they figure they can um sublet well so so a couple of things there uh you know the clerk's office is checking these listings from time to time uh so you know we're not doing it every day or every week even but we're checking them regularly and certainly tenants who are illegally subletting uh you know is if there's there are two problems there if they're illegally suting for trying to set up a short-term rental they have a problem with the city and they also have a problem with the owner so you know who's the property owner so we know what's going on I mean I'm going to have a broken lease because I say hey you can't be here you can't do that so now I have a broken lease and I've got to fill it again um but just I think the people in town should be aware these people are crafty they're very crafty thanks if you know please just give us there's been three okay three people build ready to your lease yeah no short build it right into their lease I have no sublet in my lease but not maybe not everyone in town does yeah so what I'm trying to do is people need to be aware thank you I have a I have a question on on that so you're you're saying that you're concerned that if the city comes after the person who's legally renting an apartment and suting that apartment that that the owner is respons responsible well it's kind of a gray area I guess until it gets toin but I don't want short-term people I don't want it and you know I'll get tricked maybe I will but people there's then you're limited on the questions you can ask are you married you know how do you have kids there's like all well there are certain things that are yeah that are you have to kind of be ethics and and questions that you cannot ask can't ask about you have to be equally crafty and pick these people apart but the ordinance requires it to be owner occupied no no no you want your yeah so right there they wouldn't be eligible oh I see them being they aren't the owner but yeah right they're the tenant but they're not the yeah I don't want these but well they're they're tricky they're very very to Lindsay me to Lindsay they're only tempor Lindsay puts her hat on and her badge the'll hit you with her cow okay all right I think we had made ad yes CL okay okay so um I'll motion say thanks for coming tonight good to see you all by the way there's an aurora borealis outside I was GNA go out and check yeah is it a hybrid my friend posted pictures from New Hope first sky was magenta old