good evening sorry evening everyone I'd like to call this meeting to order at 7 o' and ask that the city record city clerk read the St compliance open public meetings act this meeting is being held in compliance with the open public meetings act with the annual meeting notice advertised in the Trenton Times on January 10 2024 notice of this meeting was posted on the bulletin board at City Hall and sent to various individuals on the list serve department heads and the city engineer the meeting agenda includes action items known at the time of publication and is subject to change this meeting is being recorded and streamed live using the zoom meeting platform roll call yes please councilwoman K Kaminsky here councilman lied here councilman Stegman here council president Lambert here mayor Nock here rise for the public pleas standing for a moment of silence for all of those Suffering The Great humanitarian crisis that's happening in God's life Pledge aliance of the United States of America stand thank you everyone it's nice to see you all here we'll begin this uh meeting with our first public participation we uh do meeting we have two public participation periods one at the beginning and one at the end if you'd like to speak we ask you unless you have mobility issues to step to the podium here state your name and address uh you have three uninterrupted minutes for questions or remarks L see is the time for us thank you um and is there anybody here who would like to Judy 86 North Union Street I just was so pleased to see in the agenda that you all are addressing the parking situation on behalf of the merchants in town during this bridge construction and it was I thought fabulous news great stuff and you hear me often pointing to things here and there but I wanted to point to this in person because I just think you've done a great thing by working with this issue and trying to make it better for our for our town during the period so false M 39 Cory um I would just encourage you to give a little background of when we get into the uh first reading of the fire ordinance fire ordinance trying to understand what the motivation is for this um breaking it out of the city and putting responsibility for the safety of the city ultimately in fire uh fire district um and yeah I I i' just like to really hear more sometimes on these first readings we don't get a lot of understanding of what's motivating some of these things and by the time it gets to the public uh the open part of the second reading it might be a little bit too late for us to really fully under grasp things and be able to provide valuable feedback thank you 5 that's okay St um I also question I know we've been manag been talking about some relationship between the city and and the fire district to do something right this is uh reading it now it's it's a big something right with some real mejor potential impacts with a lot of questions that I think need to get answered before you you know head forward quickly all right uh because they if if we're having trouble you know it seems like there's been issues with getting a fire district person all right there there are other options all right that need to be investigated as part of it all right one that apparently a lot of municipalities have used in the state is to have the state come in that that's their job that that's they're they're the experts all right and my understanding is that they just they just take it and and they run with it all right and that's their job that they're the Professionals in that particular the that particular piece of it all right certainly our firefighters are are expert at firefighting uh we hope and I just think we need to go slowly on this and and make sure this is really what we're looking for as a city and taxpayer because you know whether we we pay taxes through the city or if we end up paying more taxes through the you know to the fire district all right uh you know it's it's still an impact on us that uh you know that are now on fixed incomes all right and speaking of fixed incomes all right I see there's a motion or an action under consideration to uh exceed the 2.5% % allowed increase to take it up to 3.5 uh I would hope that as we all do in our our personal lives all right is considered you know cutting the budget and cutting the taxes all right rather than looking for more mon thank you anyone else in the room Jennifer S director of the lamberville library I just wanted to say thank you so much for honoring the library uh during National Library week is next week and we are so pleased to be honored as a finalist by The Institute of Museum and Library services for their National medal during this um exciting time for the library and um I would just like to say that the title is an honor for the library but it's really also should be celebrated by you all because you all are part of it and all of our community members in Lor bille that support and volunteer and use the library are also a part of this wonderful um final honor so yeah I'm going to say something Spanish I'm Trina barusco and I also uh work at the lorville library I just wanted to um translate this into [Music] Spanish [Music] just letting everybody know that next week on Wednesday we start the Latinas and Lille uh program that uh the engine behind the W that um all Latinas are invited with their children because what we have activities for the children as well as well and the project is called dream Advance no learn advance and dream that's the name of of the the 10 week course my name is Trina you can always find me in the library to speak about the Hispanic program thank you I just to this to you for the first part Jensen I don't know if thank you I appreciate that would you just not what that was yes it's just um information about the 2024 National medal for Museum and Library service thank you it shows lamber fell listed on it along with the other people so it's uh nice to see us listed with Georgia North Carolina Washington DC um Massachusetts Texas so it really is a national event which is nice else in the room there anyone online okay how many people are online five five okay have a motion to close the public commentary please second all in favor please say I I I we hear from EV hi I mean live excuse me um all right uh anybody on the council have any uh thing they'd like to say response to any of those questions or comments I'd just like to congratulate the library for for you know such a great honor and you know to do a little little part of it and um hope to see metal on this painted Library I second to congratulations it's a great Library you're like this little gem in the community you're kind of tucked away in there and you just do amazing work thank you congratulations well uh congratulations and uh it it just shows once again I think those are your usual seats in the back but what what once again how uh how we're sharing how important a library is with the entire country here and to be recognized in that group uh is quite an honor and congratulations makes lamberville another reason why we're also proud of living in this city because of your work so thanks so much El L do you have anything to add or anything comments about just uh obviously congratulations to the library and all the volunteers that help helped uh us achieve this great honor thank you I join everybody on the day and congratulating you being just so thrilled uh for all of your work in um thank you and as to the other uh the other comments or questions uh those will be addressed as we're kind of working through the various topics so thank you for that um all right I would uh like to take a moment to note that we did not take action on paying bills at the March 21st session so um I'm just G to ask for motion to approve the March 21st 2024 bills list move sir all in favor hi thank you car right Proclamation uh it's National Library we April 17th through the 13th um so I would like to adopt the proclamation honoring the library and proc claim April 7th through the 13th as Library week in the city we going to read this uh Proclamation whereas the library has been a treasur institution enjoyed by the residents of our community and and Beyond since the formation of the striker Library Association of Lambertville in 1881 and whereas the library was approved by referendum in November 1925 and in January of 1926 to open as a Lambertville free public library and whereas the Lambertville free public library offers the opportunity for people of all ages to connect with others learn new skills gain information and pursue their passions from no matter where they are on life's journey and whereas libraries have long served as trusted institutions striving to ensure Equitable access to information and services for all members of the community regardless of race ethnicity Creed ability sexual orientation gender identity or socioeconomic status and whereas libraries adapt to the everchanging needs of their communities developing and expanding collections programs and services that are as diverse as the populations they serve and whereas libraries are accessible and inclusive places that promote sense local connection blessing understanding Civic engagement and shared Community goals and whereas libraries play a pivotal role in Economic Development by providing resources and support for job Seekers entrepreneurs and small businesses thus contributing to local prosperity and growth and whereas libraries are essential public good and are are an essential public good and fundament and Democratic societies protecting the right to education and literacy and promoting the free exchange of information and ideas for all and whereas the Lambertville free public library has been named a finalist for the 2024 National medal for the museum and Library service in recognition of its demonstrative excellence in service to the lville community now therefore be it resolved by the governing body of the city of lamberville in the county of Hunan in the state of New Jersey the city hereby congratulates to Lambertville public library and staff on job well done and be it resolved that April 7th through the 13th 202024 it's hereby proclaimed Library week in the city of Lambertville and be a further resolve that all residents visit the Lambertville free public library at celebrate the adventure and opportunities they unlock for us every day Ready Set Library all right I have a motion to adopt the proclamation please s move okay second all right all in favor please say I I I thanks very much all right moving on to resolutions uh we have resolution uh number 66224 this is a resolution to authorize the suspension of the lamberville city code 2014 chapter 8 Municipal parking areas and metered parking sections 8 through 15 parking meters beginning Friday May 3rd 2024 and ending May 5th 2024 so as Judy noted this is uh in response to uh request from the business community in the greater uh Area Chamber of Commerce to suspend the meters for certain weekdays to assist uh businesses with the bridge closer um so I think this is a great opportunity for the city uh hopefully it'll be a good weekend for the businesses uh it's something that we're going to consider doing several times a year I think um and as we move forward with that I just want to not a couple of practical matters about this um the so so logistically it's a fairly big thing to shut the meters down for a weekend we've got to you got to have somebody bag physically bag all the meters 337 at the moment um so there's a little bit of extra time that gets associated with that uh uh in terms of payroll uh and also collecting the bags at the end of the weekend um and I would also note that uh the bags themselves are going to cost about $600 with the stickers so um in addition to the meter Revenue that's lost we have some additional expenses just wanted to highlight those as uh as as part of the part of the record um I don't know if there any comments from the Council on this thoughts you'd like to share no I'm glad we're doing this to support our business Community I think it's a great uh way to show how much we cherish and support the businesses that all and Brill home so thank you Council mayor and Council sure we responding in the way we are okay uh hearing no other comments I would ask for motion to adopt resolution number 66224 to suspend the Meers from Friday May 3rd through Sunday May 5th so move second all in favor please say I I counc I you say I councilman I said I sorry might have been delayed all right um right we're going go to ordinances first reading uh this is ordinance number seven uh d224 it's an ordinance to the city of Lambertville County of Hunan state of New Jersey amending and uh supplementing the Lambertville city code 2014 chapter 11 fire prevention article one uniform fire safety standards to establish a a designated local agency enforcing agency responsible for the enforcement of the New Jersey uniform fire code lots of words in that um so we' we've been talking about this a little bit off and on actually quite a bit I think over the last several months uh I've had a number of concerns with the way the city has um has overseen its program dating back to certainly the beginning of my mayorship uh and uh I would just note that uh in the summer of 2022 and I have a document here the state came in and did an audit they picked 18 different uh businesses here in Lambertville and found VI ation going back decades um and so you know at that time before I before I was the mayor we had a joint zoning officer Fire official uh and that was an eight hour we job so uh it it's no wonder that program wasn't entirely successful when you thought somebody was just doing it for four hours week um or possibly a little bit more so I've had I've had concerns since I started this um since I've started being the mayor with this program um we hire somebody to come in 16 hours a week uh and uh continue to have a number of struggles throughout the two years of the that person so is a Fire official um we have uh about 60 uh life Hazard uses in the city and uh maybe upwards of to 3 400 uh regular Hazard uses um so you know I've been really concerned the city has not been able to oversee this program effectively some of that uh obviously falls on me uh and uh you know it's complicated right so you know these fire officials who are employed by the city similar to the construction code official or other officials who have jurisdictional uh authority over things you know it's hard for me to understand kind of the technical aspects of their job all I can do is kind of manage their time and kind of look at the situation hii so you know this was more than honestly this was more than the city or I could handled over the last several years uh and given the repeated involvement with the state uh coming in again and again I've got several documents letters here from the state um concerned about you know how the program is being managed uh I again to have conversations about looking turning it over to uh the uh the Fire Commission so just to review here in New Jersey there are three options for um for your program either as we as we've had in the past you H you have an employee who's the Fire official who does the work uh you have the state come in and they will do all of it uh or you can designate uh a local enforcement agents so we've had the employee um and I really think that it's been wildly unsuccessful to do it that way and uh put a lot of strain on me in my role um stress um because we just not been a to do it effectively so I've been very U it's been difficult um and so you know when we talking with the state we're talking with the Fire Commission uh you know it seemed to me that given the number of uh certified fire specters they have at the Commission in the firehouse that that would be a a good plan to Circle it look at how how this could possibly transfer done so we uh hired uh the Fire official back in the fall as kind of an interim um Fire official and was hired specifically as an interim with the goal for moving over to the uh the fire um and that's where we are in terms of the practical application of this you know we've also discussed this in one of the meetings I've got a chart here that kind of shows what we've taken in in revenues versus offset expenses and that kind of thing and it really has varied uh dramatically over the last four or five years and that's just because we've had a lack of consistency in terms of enforcement in terms of inspections so since we've hired um the Fire official in a 16-hour position we've still had conversations with the state they're still happy with the level of uh you know with the with the low numbers so we you at the last council meeting we approved uh the interim appointment of a second person to get us through this period um we're not getting our first qu rebates from the state so far behind so you know this program just has not been effective um and while I understand that it could be effective in certain situations and and is in certain municipalities um I honestly don't think that uh city has the bend um to to oversee another employee one who one who has this kind of magnet responsibilities when we're talking about you know of 450 inspections a year that's a lot so um you know this is this is where I am on this um and uh you know I had a meeting today with Chief Barlo and commissioner uh Nate over at the firehouse we talked about what a relationship could look like uh I think the city should be involved I told the chief po that we should be you we move forward with this which this the date would be uh July 1st um that we would want on the reports we would be very engaged with understanding how the program is working um in terms of the roll out of the program itself uh that's related to the Firehouse uh they they they would be uh rolling the program in a way that they think is best so we currently use sdl they would probably use sdl as well they would hire somebody independently to manage all of the inspection uh scheduling and all of that kind of thing and they would handle all the finances so the city would basically be completely removed from the process except uh they'd be our lead agency so so that's where we are that explains enough of it uh to everybody to get us going are there any comments or questions from the council before I ask for motion so is the problem or was the problem that there was so much work to do that we could not afford to hire a resource to cover all the work well so we hired someone 16 hours a week and I have to be careful here about talking about this position we've had some conversations about this um as individuals but all I'm going to say is that the last two years were very ineffective uh in terms of inspections I don't remember what the actual number is but it was very low we didn't meet all of our life you know we were required by the state at a minimum to do the um uh the life safety hazards uh every year and over the last couple years we've have come close to to inspecting all the to meeting all those requirements so I can't speak too specifically about all of this except to say that uh you know there are 40 something employees in the city and it's a lot a lot of part-time people uh everybody works really hard but in terms of managing it's it's complicated it's very complicated when we don't have an HR department um and when people have jurisdictional abilities that are I can't go into people's Lanes I I do not have the ability to challenge someone whether it's the construction code official or the Fire official uh all I can do is kind of handle what are routine HR matters uh and and even then that's a challenge because it just is and and when we did go out and look for a person the problem is that we only want part-time and people that are doing this work full-time so if they're if they're applying for this job then they're doing it late at night or they're doing it on a Saturday and Sunday so we had very little response to our advertisements that's a good point I would also say that because there are so many people in the fire department who are certified fire inspectors you know they have they have people um and they have a lot more flexibility in terms of scheduling um 16 hours a week you know we we got into a rhythm where we try to do inspections on one day and kind of administrative work on the other day it's not always possible to do inspections one day a week when you've got houses being sold and you know it's there there needs to be some flexibility in terms of inspections and customer service quite frankly right and then there's deadlines with the state too like schools have to be done before I want to say June 30th and so when and and the school doesn't want you there to run a test when the kids are in their classroom so you've got to try and and manage all of that and somebody's working part-time just can't do it so um do we know how many hours approximately uh monthly on average like this person would have been required to do work do we have anything that tells us the number of hours the resource should have worked I tell you why we don't because some of this is I'm selling my house I need a fire C smoke certification so that's part of this and they're quick but then when you have to do inspections on the life Hazard that takes up more time and it depends on where you're going because if you're going to a bigger building it's a bigger inspection um so it's really difficult we've never managed this well and because we have not F it's been underfunded um I don't think we have a good sense of how much each particular or even how many we have in each category to know what it really would require yeah can I just build off that a little bit we did get some information from the state back in in July of 2022 about the about the time they submitted the audit to us uh with rough numbers and we did talk about what 16 hours a week enough to cover this um and you know reading from this and these are rough numbers and I I don't know that they're they one other thing I'll say before I I say this is that one of the issues that that's been taking so much uh so much resources is we have literally hundreds businesses that have never been inspected that's not an exaggeration there are small businesses all over town uh that have not been inspected there are businesses that have not been inspected properly or or sufficiently and what's happening is that the fire officials spending a great deal of time in some of these businesses explaining all of the violations right so you know when the Fire official took over I'm just going to be honest here City Hall got was inspected and we got five pages of violations right so that's on me I should have I should have been asking these questions two years ago but it's it's emblematic of what of what's going on in the city in terms of people understanding what the laws are and what compliance means um so you know the Fire official is spending an inordinate number of hours just getting people and this is really hard to do to go into a business and say you know I know you know when was the last time you were insed and and they either don't know or whatever right and and the Fire official finds five or 10 or or 12 things and one of them is going to cost like $20,000 to put a new hood in or something right these are shocking difficult conversations and so you know I would credit the Fire official that we've hired as the interim who will also be uh kind of running the program that it's transferred over with showing a lot of tact and sensitivity and building relationships that uh the take time now um and also AR for the Long Haul right you I think that all these relationships that we have with our professionals are important um and if somebody is able to call the same person year after year and there's a relationship there and those expectations and all of that that's critical and I was here I held a meeting with the official four businesses in the community um I don't know was it a month five weeks ago and we had maybe 30 people in here uh and there were a lot of questions and a lot of concerns and you know to to his credit it's a tough job walking into the city given the circumstances in which we asked somebody to start was very uh was very unpleasant to tell you the truth so there's that so back in back in 2022 the state accounted about 60 life hazards uh uh used um those are the ones that are required to be uh to be done every year so these are just round numbers I don't have the actual numbers and they suggested that there were at least 200 um or 300 uh others that that they had in the system at that time um they also did the smoke clients inspections you know at least 70 a year so you know and then dealing with the complaint calls and fire investigations and all of that as well added to uh adds to that number so when we we were talking with the state back in in summer of 2022 you know they they they put 16 hours eight hours of which are administrative which is one these one day to do inspections times 52 weeks in a year 52 days to complete roughly 400 inspections is that enough I don't know it doesn't seem like it might not be right especially if you run into issues with um with individual businesses but that number came from the state yes yeah based on kind of historical yeah we have to B on our backlog well we have to file on a report annually not we the Fire official he has to and he has and that person he she has to file how many they did but when people register that information goes on to the states used to be the rims I I don't know what the new system is called but um so so they have all of our information and that's how they can track what we actually do every year it's a report that's submitted I feel strongly that this is uh an important step in terms of ensuring compliance with State regulation safety um I feel very strongly about that um I think that we have to work with the Fire Commission trust the Fire Commission it's an independent Authority commission all its reportings the public uh happy to work with them think I think that compelling reason here to give this a drive um that said I'll go on the record of saying we'll give it a year if it it looks like it's not a good relationship it's not working you know I'll be I'll I will say that it's not working and we we'll do something different um well we only have we only have three options right right and we tried one and it was challenging and it sounds like it would continue to be challenging based on the fact that it's only part-time what about the state did you look at that as an option at this point you know I didn't and and the reason why is um one I think the Fire Commission was interested in doing it it uh does bring uh added potential added Revenue into the into the fire department um you know so it's a you know there there's no doubt that historically this has been a revenue Source I would argue that when you look at the numbers for the last five or six years you know the revenue source sure I'm going to get in trouble for saying this isn't sufficiently large for the amount of uh difficulty this caus process um so you know I'm happy to pick up all those numbers for anybody who wants them but uh you know there is the there is potential for Revenue if the system is working well and it's run efficiently you you know there's there's there's an upside to it right and so the commission can can do this efficiently and effectively and you know add some Revenue you know I'm not going to say that that's potentially going to lower the tax bill for the for the fire department but you know there there is a a revenue possibility here right I'm just because we broken even doesn't necessarily mean that you know if we if we're not running an effective efficient operation and we break even that's you know that's I don't know I'll I'll let others ask I I have a few more questions but I'll let others jump in if they have any otherwise I questions from the council I'm just concerned about um not having any oversight in this plan and I I do recognize however that there that there's more than part-time work here uh to do my interaction with the uh fire inspector is very limited uh to what they do when houses transfer they come in and do their inspections to make sure that there's I that with safety uh get gets taken care of at the time of property transfer that's my only real connection with it um it you know the the option is is we if we want to keep oversight then it doesn't seem that this is a part-time position anymore given the backlog that is currently in front of us or discovered by the mayor in his research I I just I'm concerned about losing uh oversight and um the the uh ordinance doesn't talk about the nuts and bolts of how the uh how the commission is going to go forward and schedule and handle this and that's a that's a that you know that's just one of one of my concerns uh going forward I know should we entertain a full-time person is there enough for a full-time person to go out there and generate uh monies coming in uh more than we have in the past uh seeing that there are so many uh yet to be the inspected buildings um that are and that haven't been done in years um are are a concern as well but I I don't know if turning this over to another agency is you know where we want to go with with with this one particular position so uh I think I Cindy's point is well taken a part-time person who can't do this get that flexible enough to be able to accomplish what they need to accomplish in 18 hours a month yeah so uh you know whether the city wants to make a commitment on a city level to have somebody full-time and try that see if that works and is able to produce and uh and fill 35 hours a week you know is another question that we haven't explored whether that would be uh you know a to test this with a different uh system going in rather than just handing it over uh to uh a Fire Commission or so that's kind of what I'm wrestling with here that signal um this but uh course that we should have some oversight you know I you talked about this I would preferred it to be written in the coordinates that maybe we participate have an overall committee over you know or something or you know something that we would still have a hand in in it um but that being said maybe if we could do something as you've had an initial discussion with the Fire Commission about having a July 1 next year whatever 2025 you know review well oh I see yeah 20 the review We like maybe formalize that with somehow that we take that we're going to take a look at it again and and you know it would be really interesting to see you know the the the numbers and finances and things you know but have a full kind of review you know that was you know available to the public I know sometimes you know there's just a delay in information getting to websites and things or or whatever so the public doesn't have to follow you know two different meetings to be following what's going on with an agency that you know will have impact in the business Community is well as every you know folks everyone here you know um so maybe if we could do that it would be a step towards some of the things we're talking about here and allow us to at least introduce the ordinance have a public hearing on the ordinance or whatever but um I'm just trying to find a way to do something to move ahead with something that we've started but that we would like to keep a uh maybe a tighter rain on than what we first started talking about this quite because when I first we first started talking about I will admit my you know that I was following it but I didn't realize that we had to flip the agency completely so my bad and not like understanding that process of flipping the agency and that you know because I do prefer having the city be involved since there are folks and are there are constituents and I think naturally our constituents are going to come here first to air any grievances or problems that're going to be knocking on Crystal's door you know to and um so we're gonna have to uh I think work hand in hand with them but maybe if we could do maybe something a separate letter agreement with them throw that out there I don't know if Bill is on the he's not he's not yeah but we could run that by our City attorney do that it together um counc Li did you have anything to add or any questions uh just a comment that I agree with you know the sentiment that others have expressed that the past couple years this has been a very unsuccessful program and I think we need to look for a solution this may be the solution um I think that a lot of the points that people brought up are really good points especially you know if we are going to you know seed some of this uh we still do want to have some oversight and I do agree that that having uh if we do go forward with this program having a review in a year formalized as part of that makes a lot of sense so thank you um Can we is there something in the ordinance now I didn't notice it that says we're going to review this in a year or do we yeah so maybe we incorporate can we incorporate that is that done or it's so the way the way I would suggest proceeding would be to um to introduce the ordinance tonight um I and CD if we wanted to push back a public hearing on this to the to the middle of May could we do that we could you just carry it to the next meeting so so what I would suggest that we do so that we don't lose team because it's the deadlines here are they're they're creeping up on us that everything has to be everything has to be reviewed by the state and there's the Fire Commission the commission has to do a number of things at the commission level that have to be reviewed by the state so I I don't want to say we're bumping up against dead line but we need to be mindful of time as we as we do this process um I first of all in regards to oversight I think it's important to be careful about the the word oversight and what that means I'm not sure that we would have the authority to have oversight I think we don't know we don't know they report directly to the state but you know that could be a a key driver as to why it was unsuccessful right because there was not we're not going to be allowed to have oversight it would be like me saying I would have oversight over Ken Rogers for can we ask them to provide us like I I know I'm going on about the re plan but I excuse me but if we know what the backlog is we should they should be able to provide us with an estimated number of hours of how much effort is required and how many resources because it says here they can hire as many resources as they feel necessary it would be great if we were part of that conversation and they said this is this is who we want to this is how many we want to hire and here's the reason why um I I mean is that an unreasonable can't do that engagement we can't do that we're receiving control over this program to the to the Fire Commission whole thing goes to them what what I'm more than happy to do is to speak to the Fire Commission and to Chief Barlo and to work out some kind of agreement whereby maybe at the end of the year maybe we don't wait a here maybe maybe we ask uh Fire official to present to the council at a formal meeting December or November what happened in 2024 right where are we six month and a year yes right yeah but what there give us their monthly uh you'll receive but you receive the monthly uh incident reports blah blah and you'll we will be advised about Personnel in there because you'll see new people if they're coming on we I we we could we could do that as a monthly report at part of the council meeting right in the short term um I think that would be fine um and in terms of the revenue I would just note that the state only sends rebates for the program quarterly so so we wouldn't have Revenue numbers until the end of the year we've already lost our first reporter rebates because we're so far behind State just is not going to give us any rebates uh our on these life Hazard units so my the only thing I I want to caution people about is I'm the one talking to the state and they're putting pressure on us I think that moving back the idea of moving backward to to hiring somebody is going to be extremely I'm not giving exaggeration problematic for the state um we've been in meetings we were in we were in a meeting not that long ago and they they they they're they're still cautious about the progress that we've been making um but they they they feel that this is that we we've not handled it and this is what they this would it's not just me it's I think the state thinks that this is the best option other than having the sayate come in and and didn't we have to give money back for from 2023 because we didn't meet like they they give you money up front and then as you meet your goals you get more but we didn't me what our minim and and if I thank you well it it's it's obvious that this is not a part-time position anymore and you know when when you don't have an an employee that is full-time you're not going to get the results that you want to get and the question I think in front of us is do do we want to have a full-time employee uh who whose job is to is is to you know be our our uh fire inspector or do we do we want to uh have a full-time employee but however have it a shared service between us and another municipality since the fire code is universal throughout the state and I don't know if we've looked into that possibility it's I don't believe that's a possibility um a shared service agreement uh I think the f one of the the inter the second interim Fire official uh has a job with Clinton Township as their Fire Marshall I think so there you know but it's not an agreement I I don't know I I have to double check but I'm fairly confident that there's no uh shared services between municipalities here employees can you know work in different municipalities but I don't believe in all the record in all the documents I read there's that's not an option and that's what we tried to do we tried to come up with a memorandum of understanding where you know their employees it we we would do our inspections that and we submitted that to the state I don't remember the month last year and that's when the state kicked it back and said no they either take the whole thing and are totally responsible for it you know or you hire somebody or we take over the problem is the backlog and that the very first thing that the fire inspector does is log on to see how how we are when they see that they're like who not touching this and the other thing I would just say um councilman is that it's quite possible that this is a 16h hour a week job right but until until the dust is clear until all the inspections until the first year or more is over right the our officials told me it's going to take at least a year to get things to you know sort of standard operating procedure it's quite possible that you know it will be a 16 hour week job and you know that's another thing that have to be you know we have to be mindful of at the city is you hire somebody for 16 or 20 hours a week or 30 hours a week see need is there it's very difficult to sort of pull back on that schedule with that employee I mean all kinds of apart issues in in sort of Shifting people around um between hours responsibilities that kind of thing so you know one of the advantages as I see it is that you know the virus the fire department does have all these these these certified fire inspectors on staff and you know they're at the fire house and you know they can go out after their shift is over and and cover you know inspections they have a lot more flexibility because they have a lot more people and they have they're all there a good part of the time so it doesn't necessarily mean that you know it's going to be a 20 hour a week job I certainly don't think it's a full-time job um you know I think you know I don't know and and and our official who's out there every day doesn't have a a good sense of how many hours it's going to be you know in the long term in terms of Maintenance and year toe operations so I couldn't say um but it's certainly not a full-time job well I I'd like to have some information where to prove you're correct we can't prove I'm correct uh because there is no information they're still working through the backlog I mean it's just not it's not there I'm thank you thank you I'm also concerned that if it's not in here it's not anywhere if there's not a written agreement that super that we can you know if it's not written on the plan sometimes things just don't get done and and I don't know if we can add that us this as a basis and add that you know in in the ordinance about uh you know the relationship that we have with whoever's doing this this is what the state sent out word for word and uh I I'm a little confused not confused seems to me that this is oftentimes there's a leap of TR a leap of faith in things right whether you're voting for a new candidate whether you're trying something new uh you know I think that I would hope that we know our fire commission and our fire department well enough to feel like they could run a program um like this um and to give them the opportunity to I don't see I don't see what seeding our Authority does here other than try to solve the problem I don't need to be the boss of everything I don't want to be the boss of everything I think that think I think this is worth a try and if it doesn't work out then we you know then we come back but mayor I do think in the ordinance where it says the whereas if you wanted to add in whereas you know in the spirit of you mean the ordinance really is a safety thing right we could add you know um that we would get a monthly report and maybe a six-month overview I think that that would be okay sure but I think that's an agreement that I mean if you wanted it at ens I don't see any reason why it could be there but you know when I went out and have my meeting this morning you know first thing I said was you know we want to know what's going on with this yeah this is a new relationship this would be a new relationship it's important to us that not only is the program running well but that you know that that that you know that we're here for you and we're there for you that's why I have meetings with the Fire official in the public right it's not about his job or my job it's about our joint commitment to program right so we want to put it in the ordinance I think that's we can but uh I don't think that changes the flavor of when you actually get into you know um who who has oversight it just says that they'll give us a report it's an update so you know issue with that is you know then then we can't introduce this tonight right we're just we could just do by a separate letter you send them a letter and we don't have to put it in the ordinance it solves the problem that's like what I was driving yeah I'm like and I'm happy to work with I really am it's like you know so we can introduce it and keep going with the program but we do a separate letter on the reporting you know that we want to do especially if you know they already want to do it it's good so what would the separate letter we can talk about this let's introduce the ordinance and I'm happy to have individual conversation what you think should be in the letter I'm happy that you know yeah I don't have it like we a six month review and then and a year we revisit it you know and that we want to make sure that the program's running you know satisfactory for the citizens of the city we could do we do it in a council meeting or we have a formal public hearing on matter and the uh oh yeah I I I um if any it's not if in whatever time we choose it isn't we not satisfied with it then we would have to do another ordinance to undo this ordinance and what type of bad feelings are generated at that point well I mean you could suggest that bad feelings are being generated if we're not trusting the fire department right I mean that may very well be already here you got to we would and it it was performing well it there you know I think nature there's a there's a pretty there's a pretty straightforward metric um that you you look at it's the backlog resolved okay they're about a Year's worth of work plus all the work that comes in in the interim if the fire company can clean up the backlog then um and maintain and Keep On Track and not create more backlog then I don't know that's a pretty that seems like a pretty good measure of success right because the issue is we don't have the bandwidth to to address the backlog that's why we're in so much hot water with state right part of it that yeah so you know if you put it give it to a resource that says yes we can do this then you know you review it say how you doing with the backlog and how are you doing with the new things coming in and that's pretty easy that's pretty straightforward right right and I guess the other the other piece of this is um we're as a c as you know the municipality we're still on the hook for making sure this stuff is done um on time correctly you know uh and appropriately so if we have a resource that's not doing it we do have the ability to bring it back under our own control good point no I'm in support of uh introducing it tonight and I appreciate you know the opportunity to talk to you mayor because I do have some more questions about it as well so okay so to introduce have a second please please second all right all in favor of introducing ordinance number number 7224 please say I I did you say I did you say n would you like to vote um I'm going to vote no okay the motion carries uh one no um next ordinance will be ordinance number 08 d224 the cat Bank ordinance uh this one is give the gives the city the ability to bank the unused portion of funding for uh to the cap so it's pretty straightforward so you have anything thats out this yeah so when you do your budget you you have your numbers you can go all the way to the cap um and we did not and so when you don't the state says you have the ability to take that money that you didn't use and put it in what's called a cap bank and you can use it in any of the next I think it's two years in their budget three years three years um could be more anyway I have to look at the ordinance I I kind of take different notes anyway um I don't most of the time this this isn't used um but it just gives you the ability to use it if you get in the back bad year in one of the future budgets it's not exceeding what we are currently doing it's taking the difference in putting it in a c does that make sense which means that we can in the future in within the three-year period if we have to go above the above the tap then we have a credit to use for a CR a credit in the air in the future yes like the little savings account a little yeah a little three and half% GRE STS all right may have a motion to introduce ordinance number 08 2024 on first reading public hearing on May 2nd please so second all in favor please say I I I neglected to note that the second reading on ordinance number 7224 on May 2nd correct please we're noting it now um all right introduction of the 2024 um just a short statement I'm going to read uh please to pronounce uh to propose a balance budget 8,399 n27 for 2024 with a levy of4 m1961 5.77 meets All City obligations through reasonable Revenue projections that build fund balance a balanced approach to the use and restoration reserves a conservative approach on spending for operational expenses while staying within the state manded appropriation and ly caps following is a brief explanation of what's being proposed revenues Surplus 2023 operations closed out favorably and above budgeted Revenue levels regenerating more Surplus than anticipated in 2023 2 $250,000 permitting the city to take in higher levels of an anticipated Surplus in 2024 $523,000 this year while maintaining an expanding Surplus revenues total miscellaneous revenues revenues from local government activities including parking fees fines permits canvas sales interest on investments continue to rise allowing for a greater offset against expenses needed to provide these Services City continues to share in the mutual benefit of shared services with the burough of Frenchtown funding from Grants to offset expenses and expand services and interest on Investments as a result of improved cash flows and favor favorable markets in terms of Appropriations regular operational expenses and salary and wages and other expenses are keeping Pace with inflationary Trends all obligations to collected bargaining units and contracts are fully funded there's also funding for an additional police officer to restore one of two previously eliminated positions and provide additional coverage to reduce overtime as a result of shift shortages from lack of Manpower this budget funds 2024 accumulated absence acrs in the year they are ACR for placement in the appropriate trust accounts for future payments retirement terminal lead obligations plans for various Road and storm sewer improvements Public Safety vehicle replacement andil improvements and general improvements to public buildings is contemplated in the 2024 Appo plant prodctions for the last year debt for the last year Debt Service Remains the largest Rising factor to the tax increase this is the last budget cycle where the debt service is on the rise due to to higher interest notes that will need to be paid in 2024 for the previous 12 months these same notes were recently rolled into a lower interest rate 15-year Bond due to The Prudent fiscal practices and restoration of critical reserves the city of lamberville has been looked upon favorably by the rating agencies and as a result received a very favorable interest rate in the April note to bond sale Paving the way for reductions in debt service for 2025 and Beyond other large expense drivers for 2024 include increases for liability insurance health insurance and the city's pension obligations once introduced I invite public to review the introduced version of the budget and meet with me and the council at a public Hearing in a a budget explanation session on April 18th 2024 at 7 p.m here at the Justice Center that time we'll review the budget in Greater detail and provide a written analysis for the public so just to clarify uh April 18th is is a voting session for us but we will devote the first hour or so to uh any additional questions or comments that the the council have or the public house about the budget the um second reading and public hearing on the budget will be May 2 at 7 o'clock um just a couple of other things here um you know we did things a little bit differently this year the council was able to meet with uh budget consultant or given the opportunity to meet with budget consultant before the budget was subed state auditor um I believe several couple of the count couple of the C people have now met with uh the budget consol at least two or three times so I think that there's been some good access and conversation about those lines uh I will have a uh my budget message um for the April 18th meeting it may not be available before then I'm going on vacation and budget consultant who stra that has been very busy he's got a job this work through our uh budget is uh it's not allowed him to allowed us to kind of complete that document before then the budget uh will be posted and the cap uh the cap Bank what posted tomorrow on the city website correct um so if you have any questions in the meantime you feel free to reach out I'm actually not answering emails till April 15th so you know you might just have to wait yeah but it's all there yeah or you know if there's a major question they can always reach out and we'll put them in contact uh should get the answer from you consultant um so give that the public has not seen this this budget I would just ask for a motion budget at this time so move okay all in favor of introducing the 2024 budget as presented and amended with public hearing schedule for May 2nd please say I I and motion carries thank you um the question yes the uh the version that is the user friend the user friend version thank you so much thank you s working on it uh that should be posted when you think of next week um Chris will be here next Friday the 12th okay to review it so after that it'll be posted okay so probably a week from tomorrow yeah as you all as you we've uh had several opportunities Ben and I and I know that Karen and Evan have spoken to our to Michael duris our budget consultant who has been as Michael does explains things really succinctly and takes our questions that we have to heart and answers them you know in in you know the background between certain choices that were made so I'm really confident that we were able to have those conversations beforehand I think it's a great precedent that you set and we continue that the future because seems to be working well this year um and uh the the uh it's it's a lot of information and a lot of pages on both sides of the pages it's a very Hefty document to read uh and that's why I uh and thank you for reminding me what it's called the short version uh but that's great that it'll be available to the public early uh as well as you can look at the bud online that when it's when it's posted and uh a lot of good uh conversations happened during the meeting that Ben and I had and and Karen and Evan had about the budget so we're uh quite happy to have input early on this year and thank you for for the council being available and the mayor being very amendable to doing this so thank you well thank you all for for your uh for your participation and uh you know council president was on a finance team this year I didn't make all meetings but I would certainly welcome uh people on you know we can't for them but I certainly welcome one council member serve on the finance team year in and year out um and uh to council lman kaminsky's suggestion I think in September October we'll begin to look at some of the questions that you uh have raised uh this week with Michael I think that we can start having conversations uh in earlier in the fall then before the budget hearings about priorities concerns all of that so let's continue to kind of build on what I hope is a is a successful process or you know I want it to be successful I want you all to be involved this you know as much as possible so thank you for that and thanks for thanks for keeping me on my toes I appreciate it um all right and just lastly on the budget uh both Michael drwes and Christy ER at the CFO will be attending both me meetings they'll both be here on the 18th and the 2nd chrisy I think will they may be participating Michael probably be here in person chrisy will probably participate via so uh we'll help them in the road to help us out um moving on announcements um I was up at the Hanan County um Commissioners meeting a couple nights ago can't remember what night it was Tuesday maybe um and I was there for uh the moment when they adopted grant funding for H Park in amount of 29,00 this is the first um acquisition T Grant theyve given to Lambertville uh for open space um the point applied for it Andy yeah well we do we do pay back essentially I love the feel like just being totally transparent that people run we do pay a county you know open space t that is gratifying and we got a lot of it back sure but we'll come up with another grand yeah yeah yeah all back absolutely I will say that at the the commissioner commissioner meeting was a fairly perfunctory vote the open space advisory Parkson open space advisory committee meeting that I went to with um um Jackie Jackie Middleton that was passion discussion which was nice to participate so anyway I'm glad I invited him down for a stroll in park so all right moving on Well Fargo parking lot so everybody's probably read this I mentioned uh I've mentioned it before uh we have in fact lost the lease there we've been as to remove all the parking meters by the the lease date which is the day after shadfest we'll probably move them on the Thursday at 5es or shadfest um I do not know not been informed who the new owner is uh still in it's still in contract um I certainly offered to reach out to that person that entity um and we will be moving from our beloved to that end I will I I'm just going to I'm not going to get too into this tonight but I do want to credit Cindy and Lindsay for beginning a conversation about um ways in which we can look at parking uh in this lot differently um and I don't want to get too ahead of that conversation uh but I think by the next meeting we'll have some ideas I need to check in on a couple of things we have a lot of spaces here um a lot of us quite a few of those spaces are uh are tied to planning board resolutions for example and are not use so I'm going to do a little asking around but thank you guys very much for getting on the ball and starting to think outside the box about ways in which we might increase uh you know parking here there's one or two other ideas that I'm not to talk about tonight but uh but we're working on it we're mindful of it and stay tuned and mayor just one quick thing is I don't know I stop down here a couple times a week this lot is always empty so if the chamber would do a little bit of advertising it's only a block for people to walk my idea was uh and actually it's a good one it just happened yes maybe we put it you know there are signs in central business district that direct people here but maybe we just put a big old sandwich board up somewhere so the parking down there right and drivers see that well we we we did attempt to direct parking from we did from the uh uh North Union Street lot that there's additional parking down here so we did add sence but we're working on it we're trying we're puzzling it out we're we're trying to think of ways to uh to increase um access and uh awareness um just lastly the sidewalk everybody's probably NOS that the sidewalk in front of the parking lot is being uh reported uh tomorrow the lot because of the weather this week was supposed to be poured yesterday um the parking lot has to be closed for 72 hours the sidewalk is is poured so that means that on Monday when the school returns the teachers are going to have to park at meters um which shouldn't be a big deal um you a pretty quiet day so just look updating everybody there the sidewalk at the library and part of the lot should be uh should be get to go by by Monday sorry both lot the the library sidewalk and then and then the sidewalk in front of the North Street that one needs 72 hours SEC cure because the vehicles drive over it so it need a little bit longer to cure than just a pedestrian outside water uh Convenience Center hours Saturday April 6 and 20th from 9 to noon and Wednesday 17th just to other quick uh updates here thank you Council uh Wan Kaminsky and Jeff fiddle um and Paul Co who's here tonight we sat in a very stormy evening in City Hall last night and worked on the storm water Control Ordinance kind of bitting uh weather pattern for what we were doing we made some really good progress so I'm really pleased about that we still have more things to do and more things to consider on that but uh it was a great meeting and that and I thank the councilwoman and Mr fiddle for for their expertise with the with uh with us in the city engineer um also you know there's been interest about the hisort preservation uh ordinance uh I spent about three hours this week personally working through that ordinance it's a very complicated ordinance uh and I wish I could say had fun doing it but I really to and this is the one in order frustated CER yeah and it's going to be interesting to see how the community reacts to it um so you know it's it's pretty strict um and it'll be interesting to see kind of what what the public feedback is on this um if you remember back in 2021 I was at the meeting in December when we looked at this and there was a lot of kind of I'm going to call public outcry about whether or not residents could decide to be not included right and they had to get notice and all of that which is written into our present ordinance all that comes out if you're in the district you're in the district you don't you don't get a choice since there's a draft Maybe we could see it on the council kind of daunting to take a look at ITE of time before we get into sure yeah absolutely I'm happy to send it you right now uh Cindy's just kind of tidied up um uh sort of the formatting stuff there were one there one or two substantive issues that need to be resolved um those are going to have to be resolved between um the history preservation commission and the state example do we want to we do we want to have an archaeologist yeah is something that important a couple there a couple of questions that I think that they need to sort of look at and and make some decisions about um I feel comfortable knowing how I would how I would go but I want them to take so we we'll get the ordinance to everybody in the council a Draft take a get I'm happy to ask Cindy to send it as long as everybody have ch of draft and for the time being you know we're not asking for changes so I know mentioned two subjects and are you referring to the not the storm order meeting you had with uh oh that's the what you're talking about not the historic preservation no I'm talking about the historic preservation I've been working on that Debbie Kelly helped me we spend an hour together one day and then I've spent several hours uh it's been a lot of cutting and pasting from other ordinances from other communities that already have a CLG so some of it's just copying and pasting and changing language to make a lamberville uh so we're getting there okay I feel good about where it is now and I think that we're not probably too far off um so uh would the council would like to see a dra of that I'll have send an email to you blind and copy you please do not at this time you know make any comments we'll have comments talk to each of you individually um just a couple of things for discussion and uh see how these things go so uh Municipal fees so Cindy and I met with uh our insurance company a couple weeks ago to talk about um uh Insurance questions uh in terms of city parks uh do you know can can we wave them what's the why don't you why don't you take a sure so the question for the insurance company was you know we people just go to our parks and use them and they can just use them and not have a certificate of insurance so if you're having a birthday party for your kid just a regular party not bringing in anything special why do you do they need to have a certificate of insurance will that will they be covered if something happens and the the response was they're already covered under the your insurance for your very general blanket visit have a small Party in the Park use the equipment that's there covered if it's a business or if it's a party where they want to bring a vendor in then we need a Certificate of Insurance names the city of lamberville as additional insured this is good yeah and this is good news right parties here you know get the home insurance out that's about s to us this is coming out a level of bureaucracy that um right and if people rent they may not have the availability of getting you know coverage insurance a certificate of insurance so this opens the use of the park up and makes it a little bit more friendlier for our taxpayers and residents so that good news this good news yeah I was happy to hear that um that made me happy um let's move on to the discussion so we currently have a $25 use fee and a $250 deposit um I would propose residence that we you know I don't know did we talk about just waving this or keeping it at $25 when we talk about in terms of process I don't remember a definitive answer but there was discussion of waving it for having a res a no fee for a resident and a non Fe non right um but you know there was not nothing that was definitive I'm just going to go out and say I like the idea of having no fee the resents um I think that given how many requests we get over the course of the year it's not a heavy LIF for the office to processes in parks and R so that would be my position um and you know if we wanted to charge a nominal fee for non-residents that's fair 25 bucks or whatever I don't know Council yeah up with a figure that reflects whatever is supposed to reflect for non-resident to use a facility Well I mean this is a question really more for Cindy I mean in terms of just process there's a little bit of work here it's really a matter of reserving it on the calendar I would disagree just because it has to appear on theer um I would argue that there's a little bit more work involved just because of the refund process it goes through our hands it goes to sue it comes back and it's a little bit more involved May the one thing I would the one thing I would also point out too is if there's no fee we don't want people just to reserve it and not use it and prevent other people from using it um so sometimes a very small fee discourages that uh and so it obviously it's not a revenue source for us but we want to make sure that people who are reserving are using it that people who people residents and non-residence well my only concern about not charging a fee for it is if someone reserves it and then they're not going to use it that's going to prevent other people from using it and so it's easy to reserve it if there's no fee because they're not going to lose anything um so that would just be my only concern so it's so it's a security deposit so to speak and if you don't do the event don't use it you get it back well not even the security deposit just a small fee just because you don't want someone to reserve it and the thought that I may use it but then they're not going to use it because you know they have other stuff to do if there's a small fee for it typically that prevents that type of thing from happening well do we still require a deposit I don't think there's any need for deposit okay the other thing that the insurance company ask that we consider is um Banning the use of any blowup equipment and this would be the things you know that that uh the bouncy houses and things like that because that's really where injury happens no bounces and no um no no explosives no no yeah okay right now what was the other thing they said no trampolines thank you yeah trampolines those are very dangerous um you know the school does use something on Eli park though with the Bouncy Stuff um I don't know you know I would be okay if there was the bouncy house as long as they had a certificate of insurance for that but that's a vendor which I think that's what Cindy was talking about before whenever there's a vendor professional company involved we would require that I suppose yeah but then you get to suppose someone buys one at Home Depot when they set it up for the event something happened so you know there you you it's a tough it's a tough sh I don't know I'm a parent of three people I'm perfectly happy of say saying give them a ball and call it a day right kids will have fun no matter what you do so uh I just had that vision of a news video that I remember of a bouncy castle actually taking off with a couple of Toddlers day um so and and I think that was their point that's why they they don't want us to allow that because it's it's a liability and as you know I mean we've been sued in the past and that the people who hold the party get sued and we get sued as well so it's really you know what we'll come up with a list of permitted not permitted yeah let's just do that and bring it back to the council okay um and so it sounds like uh I think I think councilman L thr me around are we comfortable with a $25 fee for residents we not are we not doing any deposit is that we still doing a deposit right now we have the fee and the deposit okay so this remains unchanged this statement in the agenda I would I would I would think that that would remain unchanged and and the $250 deposit is that something that we want I mean we do have equipment what if you know $250 isn't going to pay to replace a big piece of equipment that gets broke so is that $250 for a resident maybe we don't charge that how many times in the past year have we had to use the security deposit or or two years uh we haven't had to use a security deposit and we haven't had a problem with any of our Parks going back to 2011 when somebody rented Mary Sheridan Park and dug up all the flowers I don't think we need it then all right let's try without it so I would say I would recommend that we we remove that for Resident use and non-resident use but for businesses that they still make the deposit yeah that makes sense okay okay uh and just lastly non-resident use is gonna be $25 or do we want to make that deal no preference yeah more motivation for moving into town all right exciting um we we we still have the valley parking ordinance in process and that's in process because I looked at the last time I looked at it my fault uh we'll move that along okay um then mov on to correspondence we have uh the rate Council hun area energy Cooperative we go to this C following his recommendations I read it and I thought he made a lot of recommendations as to this energy CL and how they should um like fix the bid and are we are they doing that or we participate and yeah so we participate in it and so they go back and forth between rate Council and so um they haven't they haven't finalized the packet yet but they provide all of the commentary for us so we know I know they do but is the so you haven't seen it no haven't seen it the r Council had some great points yeah I did too we're gonna be in this thing we did hear from yeah and since our former R council is a resident of lville say that listening to rate C she is you can hear this a it's a wise thing to do because these things get set up and you know they're not always you know in the best interest of all citizens and the great Council advises us to what how we can best serve our citizens so I would listen to the r counsil i I believe they are yeah I mean we did receive something from Lisa Hibbs um and but we don't have the final yet it's really notice that they are the rebid is in process that's great yeah um All Right Moving On The Board of County Commissioners uh has sent a memo out to uh municipalities of H County just uh touching base on the uh FAL housing legislation it's a memorandum just kind of uh detailing timelines as basically just the kind of a how-to for municipalities um and I listed it twice yeah all right I'm gonna open the meeting up the public participation again singles apply we're Paul Stevens 39 Cory just couple quick question uh you mentioned the user friendly budget was going to probably not be available until uh like the 14th 18th some somewhere farther down the line but you introduced the budget tonight is that the introduced budget will be voted tomorrow so people can take a look at it the other thing is I'm trying to understand the difference between the c bank and our regular Surplus so Surplus has to do with money that's brought in we don't spend all of it the cap bank had something to do with if there's a line item in the budget and don't go all the way up to the's do you want me to okay oh christe's on we can let Christie respond let give her the availability thank you chrisy chrisy can we tag you in she's here okay hi I'm here okay did you hear the question Christie I did not I'm sorry I had um some stuff going in the background all right Paul would you repeat your question please my question is I'm trying to understand the C back backs Surplus U you know run Surplus all the like to run Surplus we save that money P bank with money we put away for later somehow is that help me out your understanding different so the C Bank ordinance is ex is in is our Appropriations going from 2 and a half% up to three and a half percent and if we do not use the total 3 and a half percent we can Bank it for the next two years if we needed to it has nothing to do with the levy cap which is raising taxes this is just on the appropriation side so if I give you an example you can increase your Appropriations but leave your taxes down or in you know has nothing to do with your taxes so I know that everybody kind of gets confused because you hear your you know we have a cap on the taxes but this is not the tax I so I just want to make it clear this is not that we're increasing our tax levy cap this is just appropriation so this is the spending cap this is something that we do every year and we have the ability to bank it for two years if we do not use the three and a half percent does that answer your question helps a little bit but it sounds like there's I need a more in depth discussion minut so thank you okay you're awesome and I stand corrected Cindy it is two years I'm so so sorry I'm not sorry it's not anyone else in the room anyone online all right have a motion to close the public commentary please so move thank you please say I I and a motion to adjourn please so move second all in favor please say i i i j thank you for joining us councilman L we appreciate it and hope you're having a good time thank you unfortunately had to come back tomorrow this is not raining yeah should tomor you're coming back tomorrow maybe not sure yet