##VIDEO ID:V4mTc7ROsNk## e e that I have not seen it for for on 1 I'm going to pull the sheet oh my phone works though I don't have it you can have this copy I'm sorry I just he's going to read it you got it here good evening and welcome to the special public meeting for the laen city council today is Wednesday January 22nd 2025 uh pursuant to chapter 20 of the act of 2022 this meeting will be hybrid allowing participation both in person at the city council chambers and remarkly anybody that request the uh the zoom link for this meeting was uh provided through the city clerk's office uh this meeting is been live on the YouTube uh LA City Council page um Madame CLA please call the role councelor Levy pres Council of the plant present Council Lan present Council Del Rosario present councilor Santiago present Council M present Council Rees present Council vice president Infante present council president Rodriguez present please join me for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge of allegion to the flag of the United States of America the rep stands Nation god indice um we have uh public participation for today we have uh um at least of people that would like to speak the rules are as follow you're going to have two and a half minutes to speak to stress your concern about anything related to the city please refer to this Council as a whole not to any individual counselors at the two minute Mark you are going to hear or see some type of signs indicating they just to have 30 seconds the first verion that we have is a SMI name and address for the record please Mal 53 Chester Street good evening honorable members in this historical moment of the LA City of Lawrence as we searching with permanent police we must know the Lawrence Police Department one of the best police department in the nation Lawrence Police with the impactable leadership by honorable Chief Bia doing excellent job to protect our citizen Lawrence please thank you for making a Lawrence a safe City we are proud to support Lawrence Police Union seniors officers Union Lawrence Police this champion of the first responder Lawrence Police the union of Pride and honor in this historical struggle to find the leader we are united to support our police officers Lawrence Police one of the best police department in the nation created in the safe City despite the struggle to find a leader we we as a Laurentian stand unite to support our Lawrence police officers in this historical moment as we citizen striving to find a permanent Chief this is another challenge for our city the city of immigrant we are proud to support Lawrence Police Union we are very sure at the end of this process how challenging had been has been disputed has been such a great struggle we the Laurentian become come ahead we are pray for the safety of the police officers and we are proud to support Lawrence Police Union thank you thank you the next person that we have on the list is Rich Russell councelor Russell May man address for the record please I'm on Mike walk Rich Russell 34 cross street uh the previous meeting heard mention of the uh citizen advisory committee when are we going to find out who's on the citizen advisory committee who picks it was it the citizens was it you people or was it the guy on the corner office on the third floor I applied I haven't heard anything so that remains to be seen I guess white hair on a senior citizen means senility but uh I hope I hope right now that we are getting to the very end this is the the we're approaching the finish line but I have the greatest of faith that this is just the beginning of the second lap of the stumble fumble and trip steeple chase somebody's going to screw something up somewhere along the line and this is this is going to continue continue odd infinum now previous meeting was mentioned a press conference I've seen it in the newspaper when is the press conference going to be announced it's kind of late to announce it for tomorrow and Friday that's a short day when are we going to find anything out the last thing I've got to say is I did get a copy of the Bennett report that thing looks like it's been shot by a machine gun there's so many holes in it in redactions uh what are they hiding who's hiding what but again it's good that it come out my last thought uh ideally my two suggestions for police Chiefs I think it's the Bratton used to be with the uh BTA Boston Los Angeles New York police commissioner or Ed Davis they'd straighten the situation out with the police Chiefs but I have the greatest of Faith something's going to get screwed up somewhere along the line Thank you thank you um anybody anybody else that would like to speak on public participation that is not part of the list okay uh public hearing have we have no we have communication from the mayor's office um city offices of City cheny we have a commun iation from the mayor that we're going to read as part of the record in regard to this meeting Madame CLA please read the notice letter dated January 22nd 2025 addressed to the Lawrence city council City Hall Lawrence Mass regarding the Bennett report reads dear counselors I am unable to attend your meeting tonight I am awaiting the results of a report I commissioned regarding the Castro situation is my belief that the Bennett report is incomplete and both reports need to be reviewed once the new report is complete I will share a copy with the council and we'll have a press released during both discussing both reports I thank you in advance for your cooperation sincerely Brian a DEA all right the mayor have sent a notification to the city council in regard to this report uh tonight we are going to um uh be discussing the an item that is item 2825 which is the review and discussion of the October 2024 Bennett report and related investigation uh a sec secret section is anticipated this item was put together by council president Joan Rodriguez and Council vice president Stephanie fante at this time councilors I would like to uh open up the floor to the city attourney that is here with us uh and share with us the findings of U and anything else that we believe is important on the report question H Council leing thank you council president um you said that the meeting was request by you yes the council president and the vice president yes the chair and the vice chair yeah it's only required to be by the president but I mean we we did a join me no I know but it has to be three people no unless that is a council president involved okay thank you all right Council Council presant thank you and I I just want to reiterate um or remind councilor Levy you were you were one of the counselors that wrote via email that you that you would like a separate meeting on this yes and just okay yes but I just only asking that you know that proceed your we understand Council um Council R thank you to you before attorney Who start I I just want to ask him a question are you going to be being the attorney representing the city or you going to be an attorney representing this report uh which size are you representing just in case I I don't know how I would represent a report I don't know what you're mean okay so are you being here as a as a City attorney I'm City attorney you've asked me to to I have reviewed this report to give you information of what I know about how it came about what's happened since then what's progress again I did not prepare the report so I'm not going to go into who was interviewed what happened Etc but I I'll answer any of all questions I want that you want um how it came about what's happened um who we are currently Etc and I'm happy to answer any all questions right you may proceed thank you uh now we're going to open up the the discussion not not the discussion we're going to open we're going to open up the opportunity uh for the City attorney to uh guide us on these uh on this discussion uh giving us uh findings um when they report who hired the the the uh who hire the the company and anything that he believe is important on the report so attorney Hilton okay you have the floor um let's go back to the how did this come about what's Happening Here Etc as you may or may not know um the U castco was appointed as a uh the temporary police chief for a period of one year during that ten tenure he was involved in an incident which involved a police chase as a result of being involved at an incident a investigation was uh undertaken by the law lawence Police Department the Lawrence Police Department then shared the results of that in investigation with post and post is the um is the overseeing agency newly created which reviews certification for police officers um and does training Etc like that a as a result of that um they U suspended uh acting Chief Castro's credentials to be a police chief or be a police officer um and and um following that the uh Personnel uh um why don't I want to call them manager but the director of personnel Michael Owens was instructed that the um there needed to be an independent investigation clearly it's um hi for police Personnel to investigate their own Chief uh there seems to be you know almost an inherent problem with that so um a company um cic investigation was U engaged now everybody I'm going to refer to this as Bennett and the only reason we're referring it as Bennett is that the lead owner of cic Investigations name is Bennett so everybody calls it the Bennett report so I'm going to keep go in that same tone keep calling it The Bennett report so as a result this company was engaged by the Personnel director um this company has worked for the City of Lawrence before we have used them for other investigations um certain investigations where we felt that a um there may be a u conflict with the police department investigating themselves so we look for an outside agency we found them to be to be reputable and um that's how we engaged in as a result of that they began an investigation um uh and they as you I believe all of you have a copy as you can see the list of who they spoke to who they interviewed uh believe over 18 interviews review of documents of almost 50 in length um review of Department of rules and regulations uh review of any other documents so as a result of that um they were engaged in doing the investigation at some point it came to the point where um they were looking to interview um acting Chief Castro himself um they have received correspondence from acting Chief Castro's attorney stating that he could not make the date that they had requested and requested a continuance um at that point they they informed him that they believed that the U investigation was complete um they received correspondence from the uh mayor's uh Chief uh advisor asking them because at that point you know we had a lot of events that happened at the same time at that that same time the Personnel director ceased to be working for the City of Lawrence he was the direct connect between them um so the uh the the senior adviser asked the company to come in because there was going to have to be a new person that they were going to have to be connected with um at that point they said there really is no need they believe that the they believed that the report was complete and they submitted the report they submitted I believe a copy to me I believe they sent a copy to post and I believe they sent a copy to the U Lawrence Internal Affairs unit uh after that happened um the mayor feeling that the um the document was incomplete as U uh acting U Chief CER was not interviewed engaged the services of another company uh and we're going to call this company Maverick um so there is a second investigation the Maverick investigation is um is I believe being almost complete now uh the mayor is uh once it's reviewed and redacted again I know everybody hates redacting but there are certain things that these documents fall into hands if we have someone's Social Security number if we have the names of witnesses these are important things that you know PE Witnesses could be intimidated people's identity could be stolen so nobody likes to see redacted documents but there's a reason for redaction it's to protect people that really have are not part of it it's not to protect the person that's being investigated it's not to protect well it is to protect the city against lawsuits but you can see why there's redactions and I know it gets frustrating because you try to read it like a book and someone's name is missing but if you were that person and you wouldn't want people bothering you so you can understand why sometimes the names are removed but as a result we now have this report uh I believe the other report will be finished this week I believe the mayor is calling a press conference next week where he will go over both um investigations at that point um I have let's see I have many information as far as you want to know cost you want to know any of th those type of things I think the uh again the investigation speaks for itself um but um I'm happy to answer questions at this point that's kind of just a little background I want to see where you want me to go and then I'll speak about it all right uh if you believe there's a a good summary of this of the Benner report and then uh we can open up uh for questioning do you think that is anything that is important when it comes to hiring that uh company when it comes to uh the duration of the report how long it took to do other interview stuff like that and I don't believe so I think the report speaks for I think a standard report um like you know it's like any other you review it and you judge it as the report says itself it's it it it is just a report um to be used as a tool by either the mayor or the city council in deciding what they're going to do with with various people um so that's the end result it's is really what do you mind going to the find through the findings I apologize I did not tab it can no I don't have it like that I page um attorney if you are looking at the report that's redacted 6 61 oh you want 6 61 it's the conclusions of the um investigation right I believe the conclusion doesn't start until page 66 maybe we have different versions no no I'm just saying there's a lot of information yeah go ahead oh definitions definitions but there conclusion their actual conclusion doesn't come for page 66 forio y m I have here first conclusion is that the allegation that acting Chief Castro violated Lawrence Police Department's manual policy regarding Motor Vehicles Pursuit is sustain based on acting Chiefs Castro's initiation of a motor vehicle Pursuit it says that acting Chief Castro violated the motor vehicle Pursuits policy because his Pursuit did not fit the criteria for permiss permiss Pursuit he created a highly dangerous situation leading to a car crash based on his desire to irresponsibly pursue individuals that allegedly attempted to pass a bad check acting check acting Chief Castro drove in the sidewalk and the wrong way of a Canal Street bridge but these violations cic recommends a 90-day suspension the next one is regarding a false replce report if you look it would be on page 71 there the Lawrence Police Department SW oath of office state that offices commit to be honest in thought and deed in both personal and official Life acting Chief Castro broke the law and an effort to cover up the mistake that he made instead of accepting the consequences for his actions he fabricated a false police report the police officer cannot put inaccurate information into a police report as the leader of the Lawrence Police Department this conduct is unacceptable for the most important quality an officer possesses of their integrity acting Chief cro has sacrificed his Integrity for his own own benefit for these for these violations cic recommends termination unethical hiring practices is the next one this is regarding the hiring of of three officers acting Chief Castro took actions to hire unqualified candidates while having knowledge of the history of a serious disciplinary problems acting chief even refused to put his own name on someone's post application attesting to his good moral character despite asking others to stake their own reputations acting Chief cao's person failings about helping this person gain employment influenced his decision he instructed Lieutenant Rossi not to send any further emails to post regarding the hiring process he directed Lieutenant Rossy to close an internal investigation and council president you're not reading the rejected version me c I'm adding lieuten RI is not a name that needs to be redacted at this point the allegations that the acting Chief violated the law Poli Department council president manual policy did you want me to finish pres thank you so on our on this this report was sign with that name redacted yes and you just you did not read a name of an employee that was hired that was unethically hired correct whose name is not redacted but you chose to State a name that is redacted in this in this document do you do you do you see how that is not okay do you see how how that can be do you have the redacted document I do not have the conclusions in redaction no I do not that can be used against the city if if chosen no because Lieutenant rosi is an employee of the city the person whose name can you read it exactly how if a name is redacted it's redacted if a name is not redact this is all over everywhere thank you okay attorney Eon okay if you want acting Chief Castro took actions to hire an unqualified candidate Mr Ferman while having knowledge of the history of serious disciplinary actions acting Chief Castro even refused to put his own name on Mr furman's post application attesting to his good moral character despite asking others to stake their own reputations on Mr furman's acting Chief Castro personal feelings about helping Mr Ferman game employment influenced his decision he instructed redacted not to send any further emails to post regarding the hiring process of Mr Ferman he directed redacted to close an internal investigation into Mr firman's alleged criminal conduct the alleged the allegation that the acting Chief Castro violated the Law's Police Department's manual policy code of ethics is sustained for these violations cic recommends termination intimidation if you go to page 77 the allegation that acting Chief Castro violated 7.2 conduct on becoming an officer 7.2.3 conduct becoming an uncoming an office shall include that which tends to indicate that the officer is unable or unfit to continue as a member of the department or tends to impair the operation morale Integrity reputation or effectiveness of the Department of its members is sustained based on acting Chief Castro's actions and purportedly creating a hostile work environment were redacted through their meeting for these rev for these violations cic recommends termination retaliation page 79 for information provided to C cic about acting Chief Castro opening an old investigation as a form of retaliation against was speculative in nature cic was not provided with evidence proving that acting Chief Castro open up investigations against individuals and Captain Mangan as retaliation the allegation that acting Chief Castro while acting chief of the Lawrence Police Department attempted to reopen investigations against redacted and Captain Mangan as a former retaliation is not sustained all right uh we have this uh we have so far we have discussed the uh how we actually get into uh this investigation that uh the findings and uh and and the recommendations councelors I would like to open up the floor for any questioning that we have uh when in regard to this matter uh to the city of chinney and to anybody that is um is here council president Council vice president inant thank you I don't I'm I'm going to reserve my question but I have a quick statement there's there's R there are rumors going around stating that this this document was leaked and and I just want this on the record that this document was sent out by the DA's office after it was redacted it was not a leaked document or anything like that it it went through proper channels and it was it was it was um sent out by a proper um department or agency if I may attorney H just to confirm that I have spoken to the district attorney's office I've spoken to the as a result of the foyer by the um the police Union um this document was provided to the police Union and by the District Attorney's office um in response to that foer there is no leak the um document I also have a letter from the District Attorney's Office stating that too so no one should think that this document was given out except by the foyer process and only after the District Attorney's Office had a chance to U redact now that you talk about the foer can you can do you mind going over how the foer request for this document went through at the at your office okay it it should be noted that when this was submitted this report it was submitted to post immediately thereafter my office received a subpoena uh from post asking for the document in that subpoena I'm afraid the rest of it I would have to tell you an executive session just because I believe that subpoena is still valid there was information in that subpoena that I had to follow as a result of that information in that subpoena I did I could not give that report to anyone else at some point the police Union objected to that they then uh there was a conversation between post and I believe the uh the police Union at at some point but much later post sent a letter to us stating that in fact we could release the letter we could release the um the investigation at that point uh my office and they were instructed to U do it within 10 days um at that point my office uh began redacting its own copy of the document um during that time um fortunately it was the holidays and the mayor was out of the country um there was only one day left when the mayor came back when the mayor came back we presented him uh with a redacted copy um then the document came forth from the uh District Attorney's office so pretty much everybody at that point is that is the date uh that you have the deadline of the 10 days that that would that pass it did pass it was not by how long well everybody got the document not from us probably about a week after the 10 days so do you consider that a violation of the forye uh law I don't consider it a violation I we asked for time we had a redacted and we were also informed post that I mean post the document was supplied was it supplied as timely as it could have been probably not but yes just one you one point of information with regard to public records from a municipality you can on that 10th day you can automatically request an additional 20 business days which I believe on this one we did because we needed the more time because we were in that kind of limbo situation I know you've got a lot going on standing this I just want to add that piece so there wasn't a true violation we did go over the time but within the confines that's allowed under the law it's a lot more going on to that but I mean we just leave it up to there yeah uh councilors any questions on regard to the report councelor rosar attorney hon can you share what does the cost of that report yes there there was a contract with cic I have in my hands um two um invoices uh paid which is a total of $ 38,9 7.50 both combined no there's one if you want the exact numbers there was a first invoice in the amount of 94750 and then there was a final invoice in the amount of $ 29,9 6750 okay how um What's the total uh can you stay the the total again so 29967 so we need to we need to add it that's fine okay okay followup question so how cic was contracted did we went out to bid was a procurement process before we hire cic um we have we have a contract with them I I believe that this is exempt from the um 30b um and we had to use them before so we knew of their I have a we' signed a contract with them on August 1st of 2024 thank you C pres councelor Z councelor just for the record the total amount that we have uh 9,475 plus 29,9 67 that add up to 39,380 just for the record and just so you are aware the contract with them provided that um it could not exceed $50,000 all right councilors any other questions council president councelor son um thank you council president to you and I just want to go over a a few dates um did any notice was sent to Mr Castro about a meeting uh with the um consultant uh for an interview did did not no go yeah I believe they work do you remember the dates um to do something it said in the report that on October 9th uh there was a request for chief CER to appear um can you take a look CU I think the first uh date is not accurate I think uh I believe a notice was sent uh for an interview on the night so I just want to make sure people understand that this person was given plenty of time to appear and at least who because he could refuse like they refuse to answer any question so it's October second October 2nd the notice was delivered to appear on the nth okay it did uh Castro's attorney called and said that he could not appear on the 9th and asked for another date okay so he was sent a notice to appear for an interview and he basically declined to appear on the interview so everybody else took the time to um to be interviewed by the consultant because you mentioned I mean the letter that not you that Madame CLA read at the beginning of the meeting mention uh in a statement from the mayor's office from the mayor from the mayor from the mayor stating that the investigation is incomplete but it looks like not appears that the investigation in is complete but Mr Castro refus to attend his uh uh appointment for an interview uh to you uh cons president did this incident that happened I'm assuming did did that provoke any issues with any office in the in um any office uh per perh the humans resource office Castro not deciding not to appear for the interview that that cause any issue it looks like that the dates they um it matches the they that the humans resource director uh left or resigned I'm not clear on that situation so cro was asked to appear on the n9th he will send a letter on the second and between those days we lost a director here at City Hall I believe that is correct okay do you remember the name of the director that we lost yes Michael okay if that leaving had anything to do with this letter that was sent to Mr Castro according to your knowledge according to my knowledge I have no connection you have no connection okay because I have Michael Owens resigned much later much later but he left his office between the two the 2 and the and the ninth is that accurate I believe I believe it no I believe it was well I'm not positive the exact so posi but what around that time around that what a coincidence huh just for the record what a coincidence that we lost a great employee uh what a coincidence uh to you council president if I made uh theet report was ready by December is that accurate this report was ready by December by December CU I personally requested the report by email and some of my colleagues that that as well understood we were we were under a subpoena at that time and we're not delivering it to anyone and we were not informed the only answer that we receiv from your office again I could explain that but I would have to go in executive section executive section okay well that that's fair that that you're saying that so the uh you receive a notice from the attorney general if I'm not mistaken attorney general the district attorney which which will be the Attorney General okay thank you for the correction you receive a notice from then to release a report by the seven of January is that correct that is correct and you didn't you didn't do it you office kept the report we did not okay and why was that we were redacting at that point and he took you my understanding is the report was ready by December and it took you over a month to redact their report the no we did not stop redacting until we were honored to produce it in line me with my next question I'm confused did you get the report redacted or it's your responsibility to redact it or redacted which it is which when it is I have an unredacted report an unredacted report that's what I received and it is my job with as with any document that's being disseminated is to redact any information that I feel is disqualified and for the record I need also to mention that uh via email you they invited me to go to your office to to speak and I did not uh because I wanted the report to share that with my constituent not for my own personal entertainment right just for the record I just wanted them know I any city council that wanted to come to my office I was happy to speak to them tell them what I knew uh but not give them a copy of the document is that accurate to you cons president that you released your report hours after the report was sent by the district attorney by the district attorney you release a report around after work hours on a Friday is that accur I don't know if it was after work hours I released it the soon soon as I was informed that the um District Attorney's uh report had been released I then sent it to all news I I probably had 15 to 24 years let me remind you the district attorney said that you needed to release a report I believe on the 7 okay we have to be careful it was not the the district attorney is different from the attorney general the Attorney General thank you for correcting me I always get that confused that so they asked your office to release a report on the 7 you waited until the until Friday after work hours cuz you guys Clos uh some of you working to one and you release your report like after I think after three creepi and something like that I find not confused but the point that I want to make is that it looks like you had this report um um you kept the report from the taxpayers that have their right to see what was there and for the city councilors that have the right to read the report that's what I wanted to make sure it's it's on is on record thank you council president yes if I if I am ordered to do so I will not give it to the city council I will not give it to the mayor I will not give it to anybody I will obey orders when given to me by government or organizations if the consult president if I may you were ordered to release the report to the police Union and you refuse and then I was also the well this is my opinion and then you have the the report of hostage that's the word that I I have to use you you instead of giving the report you were waiting in my opinion for the mayor's approval to release it and the mayor is not the highest Authority when it comes to the Lord you work for the City of Florence and you job is to make sure uh that we follow the law not only the mayor or the city I mean now only the mayor your responsibility is to is to uh protect the city so you were given an order by a higher office and you decided not to release it thank you counil president all right now that you mentioned that you were ordered not to release who was the one that ordered you not to release the report again I would have to go to executive session to give you that information all right uh councilor M you mentioned that on August of 2024 is when we hired uh we hired cic yes were there any investigations upon uh Contracting them were there any investigations to which we've had any issues or we've questioned the quality of the report mean by cic no were there were there investigations prior yes did we have any problems with their investigations no so this seems to be like the first one that seems to be challenged I I don't know that the this investigation is being challenged I believe that the mayor said that felt it was the mayor's office feels it's incomplete it's incomplete because it was requested to seize investigations no it was incomplete because uh uh acting Chief Castro was not interviewed in the in the um report that brings me to the second question that I have for you um on this report I see that um only the mayor could order the acting Chief to appear for this investigation uh for this interview is that accurate he's he's the mayor's BOS yes so I guess it true of any head no so there was an in there's obviously an investigation that's taking place right it's our it's our investigation it's an interfering with an investigation is it accurate to say that only the mayor has the authority to order uh for Mr Castro to appear for this interview no so okay so then this is not accurate then um in terms of um Castro's attorney saying that only the mayor had the authority um we have the right as an employee to to request Mr casor to come in for an interview uh before we continue councel M uh do you mind going to page seven of the report seven of which of the of the report yeah of the report and on the description of the of the investigation you will see on the third paragraph you uh you can you read that for the record and that way we clarify a few things there uh that is important on the thir C attempted to interview yes okay cic attempted to interview acting Chief Castro it corresponding with act Chief Castro's attorney Walter Jacobs attorney Jacobs also represented Mr Ferman Mr Abu who were individuals named as part of the allegations against acting Chief Castro the email exchange indicated that attorney Jacobs was questioning cic's authority to order acting Chief Castro to appear for the interview on October 2nd Personnel director Michael Owens sent to attorney Jacob Sona for acting Chief Castor appear on October 9th an investigation interview attorney Jacobs replied to the email asserting that mayor Brian DEA could order acting Chief Castro to appear for the investigative interview Personnel director Owens was terminated by the city Lawrence on October 3rd that is incorrect Mr Owens will never terminated on October 9th um acting Chief Castro did appear for his interview at 15 Foster Street did not appear at 15 Foster Street Quincy Mass no adverse INF inference is taken against actor ke Chief Castro for his failure to appear at this interview as a result cic sent attorney Jacobs an email stating that the investigation would continue additionally cic clarifi examples of what policies and laws acting Chief Castro could have violated if the allegations of his behavior were found true all right thank you coun m uh so I just want to make sure that I understanding correctly that the attorney who represents cash Ro um provided inaccurate information when responding to the person that's conducting this investigation by asserting that only mayor depa could uh is the only authority to order Mr Castro to appear for this interview again he may have believe that that's not my position my position is the Personnel director I can order Chief Castro to appear okay you answered my question so that that happened right that that happened that the director personal director actually notified kaso yes and as a result of that KAS was not interview and now we're doing a second investigation attorney called up and said that he was unavailable in that date it would not appear do you have that email uh that castra attorney actually said that that he wasn't available I believe I could find that if you wanted it okay cuz and what I'm and I'm not positive it may have been by phone call so again don't hold me to that it's an exactly an email but there was a correspondence either by email or by phone so I don't want to be CAU because uh what I'm saying here is that we received a correspondent from the mayor saying that the investigation was incomplete and the reason why it was incomplete because U um uh Chief kha at the moment he was not interviewed correct and uh how we State here is that he was not interviewed because essentially he was not receiving the order from the mayor and therefore we are now paying for a investigation that's again I want to be very specific that's not the way it went okay how let's be specific is that acting Chief Castro did not show up because he said his lawyer could not be there and he would not appear without his lawyer that it was not because the mayor didn't order him it wasn't for anything the old the correspondence that I got was that the without his lawyer he's not showing and he asked for a different date and he gave a date they gave him a second date no the the lawyer gave a date said I can be available on I believe it was the 26th and we said no so anyway the the investigation was directed to finish by October 10 it wasn't directed to be finished it it was fate the only thing that was remaining was the interview of Chief Castro acting Chief Castro well says on the paragraph number fourth there can you read the paragraph number four sorry I lost that again what what page page four page seven paragraph number four on October 10th at 6:20 p.m. Mr spanner a senior adviser of tamad depa as a result of a reported instruction from Maya instructed cic to cease its investigation um was and then was direct that's incorrect too the because I have again the word was pause the word was paused the word they use is Cease I'm not trying to nitpick but the word was pause the investigation having completed its investigation cic St stated complete started completion completing its report this report is not as being provided to M deia Chief Council Tim hooton Lieutenant Paul RI the head of the Lawrence Police internal un well we I I'll tell you that we have the mayor in on recer in public saying that they direct the company to to finish the investigation that was a side what that the mayor say that's fine that is a much later date the mayor did contact cic and ask them if they would interview Castro okay councelor so we have the Bennett report and we're about to get the Maverick report and I just I don't know much about Bennett what can you tell me about cic and Bennett um how often have we gone to them if you can answer that what kind of cases have they worked on what's been and its background um I'm I'm very interested in knowing this company veracity and competency and and as they provide a report because I think that's going to be questioned so I'm I'm I really want to find out more about them if you have information on Bennett um let me just see if what information I have I do know that um Mr Bennett was the chief law enforcement officer for the com Massachusetts at one point can you speak to the mic oh I believe I do know that Mr Bennett was the chief law enforcement officer um I think his credentials were impeccable I I that's why we used him I again I I know we have kind of a summary of what he did which I don't have in front of me I I know that he had he has people in his office that are former worked in the Attorney General's office um allmer police offices so yes so that's why we picked them they did a good job with the one before and I think that let me finish this thought what he produced based on the interviews that he had with whoever he had the interviews with um the results that you read are quite damning there are five allegations motor vehicle Pursuit policy was the only one that didn't ask ask for termination that was a 90-day suspension for each of the other counts unethical hiring practices false police reports intimidation and retaliation all those individually each one of those had a recommendation of termination I don't believe intimidation was intimidation was not what was what was intimidation then not founded pardon me was not found a retribution was not sustained so I'll remove that that one so so out of the five counts one was from 90 days three were for termination and one was not found to to find enough substance to be able to to provide a recommendation on any kind of um um actions against Mr cast that didn't find enough okay fair regardless of that one point and it's important Point let's let's let's be factual right but it's still very damning of of of that Bennett in his report found those those were his findings yes and what's troubling to me at this point is a couple of things and I don't want to go too far down this rabbit hole because I I do believe that we need to hear I well I'm going to say I need I can't speak for anybody else I need to hear from the from this other report this Maverick report as well I think it's important that that I get that information uh because apparently what I'm led to believe is that there is going to be documentation there's going to be information that is going to undercut and undermine correct me immediately correct me if I'm going in the wrong I I disagree with that go right ahead go ahead I have no knowledge of what the Maverick report is going to say the Maverick report might very well say that everything contained in the pant report is Undisputed all the evidence is perfect it could say anything I have no knowledge the purpose of the okay the Maverick report was not to repudiate it was to supplement that's an important distinction because because the information that I'm getting from sources that we've discussed already this evening leads me to believe that while that is comforting um and that's the way it should be that that there is an anticipation that there's something in dire but let's let's I I I don't want I am speculating based on information that I have but let me because I haven't seen the report it hasn't been released so I don't know either I I have no idea but the point here is that before I can actually cause and make any kind of final determination as to how I feel for the people that I represent regarding this matter and this matter is what is going on with the police department regarding the practices that are there regarding at least one individual what's happening I I need to see the whole picture and and maybe there's something about this MAV report I'm going to say that makes a lot of sense to me or something I'm going to be that Maverick report I'm going say you know something that doesn't make sense to me not having all the facts it's very hard to do it so um what I do know is this here's a fact the fact is that what Bennett has provided is damning that's a fact that's there's no disputing that and that we spend money on the Bennett and we're spending money on Maverick and we're spending money on acting police Chiefs and we're spending a lot of money indisputable and so I'm not I'm not looking for a reaction I'm making a comment I'm not looking it's not a question it's it's a statement so um and that's I want to you know I I I think we're I want to um give credit to the the senior leadership team of the council uh for setting up the special meeting this evening I'm not so happy that we waited an hour because my time is valuable frankly but I want to give you credit for I want to give you credit for bringing this matter up I do think I do I do think I do think we should wait until we get the Maverick stuff out before we get to a full a full point um but I do respect and I I think that I do appreciate the fact that that we're talking about this tonight and that I'm being sincere on that so anyway that's that's the point I don't have much more to say on this until I get that but I I think people that I represent want to know where I stand on it and I just want them to know through council president where I stand on is that I want to see all the information I do know what I see right now it doesn't look so fantastic doesn't look good it looks very bad but I do want to get all the information before I have some sort of final resolution and then figure out what do we do then because that's going to be the next shoe I mean we can talk about all this but but but then what then what and I don't know what the then what is until we get all the stuff thank you uh before we before we continue we would like to go one round and then we go back to you councel m yeah counc councel president stick to the stick to the report stick to stick to the report please still to the report please let's let's uh let's let's continue with the meeting uh anybody else that would would like to go on the on the first on the first round councelor that haven't spoken yet all right um we're going to go to the second round of questioning and we're going to start with Council M um I'm noticing a list of um towards the end there is a bunch of emails that was not part of the report as a counselor do I have the authority or ability to request that um information because I am so I'm quite intrigued in terms of what was the wording um and the communication between the attorney that represents Castro uh with the individual that's conducting this investigation because if at any point point the attorney is misrepresenting that uh the mayor is the only authority to instruct Mr Castro to appear to this interview and as a result uh you know that that could have potentially have caused for this report not to be uh properly conducted I I find that um I find that to be a big issue yeah I I would I just want I I I want to see the emails so just just so we're I also want to see the email or any correspond respondence to which uh uh the advisor to the mayor had sent to cic just to verify what was the wording in terms of whether this uh report or investigation is to be paused seized halted everybody has their own definition as to what each one of these words pertain you know what does it mean I just want to see for myself as to what that correspondence look like no problem um thank you uh council president and you mentioned attorney you mentioned that there's a second interview a second investigation going on how many of the people of the individuals that we mention uh if you are aware have been um called for for interview had been interviewed I could not say I do know that some of the same people that were interviewed in the first report were interviewed in the second report I can't tell you that they interviewed everybody who they interviewed I'm not prb to that information I just happen to assist in um providing three Witnesses so I happen to know that three Witnesses for the second Report with three Witnesses for the first report and to you beyond that I don't know thank you for your answer to you cons president so for the next um investigation uh to be complete I'm assuming that all the individuals that are here I'm going to get interviewed plus Castro that will me a complete uh investigation for the mayor because the only one that is missing and this one is Castro Mr Castro so I'm assuming that the new consultant is going to interview all these people plus Mr Castro is that accurate I have no idea no idea okay thank you H and through you conso president and what's the name of the new uh company Maverick can you um um do are you familiar we have have we used this a consultant before we may have I don't know I I I did not engage them so I'm not privy to that okay C president who was the one engaging them the mayor's office okay that's for the record mayor's off engaged them cons president I yes give me one minute yes so the he just said the mayor's office engage into the hiring this uh company is that is that was the same case with the Bennett par me is that was the same case with the Bennett I'm sorry I is that was the same case with the Ben yes the investigation was from the mayor's office through the Personnel director okay that's on so the technically it's he was not there thank you thank you counil president so we don't have a humans resource director now we have a temporary a temporary one so so the mayor's office is not supposed to get involved in in an investigation because some of their members are being investigated such as uh uh the advisor spaner is there I think if I'm not mistaken I don't know what you mean by the mayor getting it I mean did they did they hire did they hire the second consultant yes they hired they hired so they but they hired the first one too I mean it thought you you mentioned that it came from the from the hum resource uh Department the director there's two different things here may if I might just explain wait wait wait one other time the the human resource director has no authority to hire anybody without the mayor's approval so and and I I thank you so the mayor office should not get involved in this type of investigation because some of his employees are part of the investigation it doesn't it seems like it's it contradicts no it it actually would seem to be the opposite if if you if you wanted to protect your office you wouldn't have an investigation well by the fact that you're having investigation you're putting your people at risk well how about you taint the investigation by getting involved in hiring they consultant how about that I think clearly you can see from here I think it says it right in the investigation that he they do not um take being um it's confusing in take someone putting the hand and OB weighing the hand it's it's it's it it sounds very confusing but somebody has to hi I mean somebody but it does it has to be the mayor's office how you going to it it seems like it's cont it's the city's money that's I can't decide today some pain wait wait wait you can't you can't I can't say hey I think this is a great idea I'm going to hire this company um that's not my money it's the city's money someone has to authoriz the city council can say to me hey I think you should do it the mayor you you you're the representatives of the city that's how the money gets spent my understanding yes Cil president if I me it's confusing okay having the mayor's office uh doing the hiring for a new consultant to do a second investigation from my point of view we don't have to agree in my understanding is that the humans resource director was the contact person uh employee involved in in the first invest in hiring the first consultant that's my understanding May oh oh that's correct great thank you that's what I wanted to hear uh thank you council president councel Rosario thank you through you I just want to pick it back on on on colleag Market plan I also would like to see the other one but I appreciate you being here yesterday I expressed that and that's why I ask you the question when you got in are you going to be here as a City attorney or you going to be representing this report is I believe that I heard last night that Mr Bennett will be here if the city sign a waiver I think we should start start working on that for our next meeting and have him here answering on this report cuz I I believe that you are doing your best of what you can but you did not did this report so and and I appreciate what you're doing right now even though I I mean I have tons of questions that you're not going to have the answer how many hours is Mr Bennett to spend doing this report you know those are things that interested me only reason I can give you that is I can give you some information from the bill yeah that's no I understand that but but I believe that it and I don't want to use sis either right we should assist this meeting but we should pause it somehow and wait for the other report and also bring in actually the all stars of this reports Maverick should be here when it when it comes to that uh talking about the report Bennett should be here talking about the report and whoever is allowed to speak on this report that is in the report should be here answering our questions or my questions I'm not going to talk for all of us my questions so it it I mean to me honestly speaking with all the respect and I said it last night and it's and it's on record like everybody says on record I said it was irrelevant to have this meeting right now which is engage us on this conversation but most of our questions you won't be able to answer correct as far as so we're not going to we're not going to get as far as as far as process what happened inside and we're not going to get an interviews didn't do any interviews yeah so we're not we're not going to get the the correct answer we're going to be maybe be blaming you for for the for the for the process that you have nothing to do with cuz clearly you said the mayor's office also PID for this investigation or or the city paid for this investigation and there was the mayor's office they instructed that I believe it actually came out of my office yeah and the mayor's office instructed the personal director to to uh to contract this company or or company to do the first investigation correct and because the investigation they feel that is not complete they decide to go where else right another company so they the contracted basically the both both of them right so again colleagues we we going to need a second round of this but we need to somehow start working on the waiver the city gave Mr Ben of the waiver he can come and talk to us and all his findings and also Maverick should be here after we read that report and and then we we can have more direct question and more direct answer when it comes to those report and and that's all I have for tonight thank you than you guys all right um any other councilors that wish to speak on the on the second round yes Council leevy thank you council president yes I I I agre with my college Gregory so we should wait for the other report because right now we've been talking and talking about so many things and we don't know what is going to be the resort of the of the world um my colle says they going to interview the same person we don't know so they're going to interview or there are more people that has to be interviewed or there are more report for I know that there is so many other things there are email there are phone there are texting and there are so many other things that we really don't have it and I know that this is a and this is should be part of the report or at least to be we should be ready to hear whatever that happen during this time so there are so many thing in there that we really don't know and we are speculating in so many things at this moment so I think and whether or not we are paying or the city is paying for both report it doesn't matter the administration is the mayor but is that the city is the one responsible for paying both report and we should wait and we when we can give also the other company and this company we has to give it then you know uh in bring them over here that respond why is the difference there is any difference between report well uh councelors any other any other councelor that wishes to speak any other coun coun thank you um I would love when we have the second meeting I I do think that we should have both uh agencies here with us um my worry with that is we tried to do that we tried to do the right thing um for the Personnel meeting that we had prior pering pertaining to the police chief we sent um an official invitation to the consultant of that and the consultant was was told by our CLE or I'm going to say by the administration by the administration because who told the CAO to say that to not appear we had questions that the consultant should have answered so we're we're trying to do the right thing and it gets stopped and then we're going to have the second meeting and then these two agencies are are going to come at the discretion of the administration and they're they're going to be they're going to be capped on what what they're able to say cuz that that's how this has been working and it's like how how do we H how do we move forward because there's this game that's being played that we're not getting anywhere so if if we're going to get it answers we need to we need to to start doing the right thing and move the needle along there's no point of having the agencies if the if the administration is going to continue to get in the middle of us trying to do our work um Madame VI pres Infante as as you mentioned the previous meeting and the and the abruption of the administration not allowing us to speak with a consultant um I think that yesterday as part of the record uh this this consultant was uh contacted uh by uh I believe it was either the City attorney or the clerk one of the two don't quote me on on which but uh but they mentioned that it was it's a clause in the contract that doesn't allow them to to to disclose anything correct um but I I'm not going to shame on the council at all because we we not have them here we didn't sign this contract and we asked the mayor and the administration to avoid that Clause so we can have them coming uh can you share that conversation that you have with the administration today yes the the mayor would not wave the confidential C okay thank you so much stop right there for the record it is not the council ex counselors it is not us as he mentioned right now we asked the mayor to wave that do Closs and he deny it so shment on the mayor not on us we're trying to do the right then we're trying to uh bring Clarity to this report that's all we're trying to do here I understand and just to complete what the mayor says is he you know he's waiting for both reports to be done and then them to be discuss together yeah I mean that's that's fair that's that's his feelings we are nine different counselors and the administration is composed of a mayor and nine counselors we're trying to do one way the mayor wanted to do his way only way that's the problem sometime so you might continue CC pres you have the floor that was the only point I wanted to make that prior to this meeting for those that may and may not tuned in to the Personnel meeting uh we were discussing the police chief search I request Ed the consultant to be there um and the administration told him not not to he agreed he agreed to come um but the administration told them uh not not to join our meeting so why have a consultant we can't even as a consultant questions so there's that councelor any other questions uh president before we before we go to counselors that have spoken um any other counselors that haven't speak yet on the second round of question is I hear no so I'll go back to counc Levy thank you I have a question so the fair report you has to hold it because uh you has to wait for the um the no the post commission you have to hold it be and that you couldn't release that report correct okay because oh who the post Commission of The Bu commission so the new report that we are waiting now has to be hold in way for them to before being released no the new the the post commission has not subed the new document okay but when they submitted the new document has to be hold it or they can be rele immediately no again we were prevented from another agency if if this document just came out tomorrow someone handed it to me and there was a foyer I would redact it and release it if a state agency intervened and said give it to them and don't give it to anybody else I would follow that advice so when the um the Maverick report comes out I will have it I will redact it and I will release it to anyone with a foyer I obviously no need for a foyer from the city council I release it to the city council if in the meantime I contacted by a state agency or something who says I must only give them the document and not release it I will follow that instructions too but I don't have those instructions as of this moment okay so I want to make make clear you know this that's so the new reports if they don't get any objection for you to release you're going to release immediately once it's once it's redacted yes I yeah I is being that and just so nobody thinks that I'm you know this is the report this is it's not something that takes two minutes to redact I'm sorry it's not like rep Pages there was 160 pages of it some with supplements I have to look to make sure that people are protected and you can see even by my conversation tonight I think that maybe there should have been another name that I should have redacted that I missed um but um so it's in no way looking to slow the process but it's to protect the city because somebody's mentioned wrong some information comes out um we're gonna get sued thank you ccil president council president can I call Sergeant Michael SAR uh I think that if we stick to the facts of the report and then we can uh we can you can ask the question and this do they have any statement from the union council president that we I mean uh they haven't presented to me but I mean they if they willing too uh they can present an statement from the union thank you council president so we cannot ask him question just listen to I mean I'm not saying that you cannot ask questions I'll say that uh they're going to they're going to response based on staying on the fat and on on their own behalf good evening Council Mr President Mr Vice President thanks for having myself in liutenant Razzo of the uh Lawrence Police paralysis Association here tonight at your request and um we speak on behalf of the 37 members MERS of the Lawrence Police Department I did not a little tall so it up thank you thank you for having us we appreciate that this is probably the most important issue facing the City of Lawrence today and and we appreciate you having us here tonight because this Saga has been going on for about two years and unfortunately the the trust that we get from the public is is is fading fast because of this Saga and we want it to end one way or another Council derar I love your idea get get the you know benett in here and and he'll speak for itself um and and councelor infon too you know the public suffers the most because of this so there were some inconsistencies that were that were spoken tonight and I'd be more than happy to clear that you know at the risk of I I guess there was an attempt at gag order given earlier to Lieutenant Razo who was here at your request so um I don't want to face the wrath of this administration because because quite frankly we've been facing the wrath for quite a long time and quite it's and it's unfair in fact I'll touch on on one of the Su that one of the um issues that was sustained by Bennett was the intimidation by one of our members in fact the mayor went on public radio today and publicly mentioned that individual who has been struggling and named the by name and refer it to him as the one being intimidated so this continues to this day and it only affects public trust we can't trust this Administration everything that is being said needs to come out and I think it needs to go to an outside law enforcement agency where it's independent unbiased and doesn't matter who hired who we just need someone who's independent on bias but like I said very frustrated for the hardworking men and women of this department the mayor Paints the picture of that there's only five people or so that are unhappy it's not the case where the US five are probably the only ones that on our faith to come before you and speak our mind to protect our members so we're an open book we're not without sin we police our own and we hold ourselves accountable unlike others in this Administration and quite frankly we're sick of it so I'll answer any questions that you want to ask that you know without any retribution from this from this Administration do you need to invoke the whle uh is bliss word well please do for to be sa I would love to I would love to blow that wasn't I have in fact the city has ignored my my uh um cries for help of a hostile work envirment along with the member that he spoke about today on public radio they've ignored our cries for help because we have no voice in this city we have no voice and everybody in this room knows what's going on every single person in this room knows what's going on and there's no doubt in my mind that everyone in this room and it's sad it's sad I've been a police office for 28 years and this is the worst I've ever seen it and all for one reason and it's to elevate William Castor the police chief of the City of Lawrence and for what and this city suffers because of it the proof is in important oh and I oh thank you through you council president and and thank you for taking the time for to be here because I know you had a an Emergency we appreciate your presence this is very important councel thank you uh are you familiar with the second agency that was hired uh by the mayor's office thank yeah I'm aware of that yes can you please share with us what's the agency if they have been involved in other investigation in the state of Massachusetts that you are aware yes what I can say is that Maverick investigation was hired by Octavian spanner who traveled to New Hampshire to hire them they're not licensed to practice in Massachusetts so they were able to uh supplement on the license of a Robert budrick out of tuxbury Massachusetts who works who used to work with retired um tuxbury police chief Alfred dunan who's done other investigations for this Administration to Chief Roy vasque so um Maverick is is two uh former salent police officers who um worked in Salem who did the Maverick investigation at the request I might add which is public knowledge is at the request of William Castro's lawyer well thank you for that and through you consult president have uh are you aware of any of the I I know that you must be familiar with the the Vette report and how many individuals we have there uh was the count or how many individual were interview I I know attorney Hoon said early initially that the Lawrence Police Department launched the investigation at William Castro we simply did our job that day I was a supervisor that responded to that okay okay yes I I was a supervisor that responded but in the Benner report there were 18 city employees of the police department that testified gave truthful testimony to the Benner report 17 of which police officers police officers of various ranks so uh to you cons president how many if you are aware that have been interviewed by the new consultant that I'm aware of [Music] um again uh attorney Hoon alluded to the fact that he thought there is that what you said attorney he he does and I'd like to confirm that but I I don't want to um get in trouble for you know revealing uh the subject of an investigation but I don't think that's of substance but there were full myself two other um offices and what I understand Mr Castro okay that's what I needed uh I wanted people to uh that are watching to hear because from my point of view if I'm assuming this new Consulting agency is going to interview all the individuals that are here that's what I plus Mr Castro that's from my point of view Council L on I highly doubt that from what I understand the report is done with just those four people when the agency did their interviews in this city council chambers one of them was chewing tobacco spinning into a Dunkin Donuts cup while wearing blue jeans so that is what you going to get with this Maverick report quite frankly it was a travesty that we were subjected to that ordered by the mayor to attend when he would not order us because he bet read the Benner report and he found no wrongdoing by these police officers three highly decorated police officers with an unblemish record but the city is going to stay otherwise and my last question uh to you conso president can you go over what post um uh found the the report that post submitted can you go over his the find findings yeah so what happened that day is um Chief Castro was involved in a Pursuit um and and uh subsequently uh the allegations were that he was untruthful in his report um by Statute our Internal Affairs officer reported that to post and then couldn't investigate because he he can't investigate the chief so it was given kick back to the city attorney's office nothing was done post then says well listen this is your investigation let us know what you find HR Owens HR Director Mike Owens hires cic Dan Bennett former director of Public Safety under Charlie Becker Charlie Baker his partner in his law in his firm is the former Colonel of the State Police so the caliber of of this investigation and investigator is is the cream of the crop and then that investigation was launched because of the allegations made in the post suspension of Castro of of his untruthfulness his ing practice and a few other indiscretions that they found you know that Bennett found um was the case and ruled it in his in his very detailed report and I'm sorry Cil president this going to be my last how long do you waited for the Bennett report how long did you waited we we waited a long time um because we wanted the truth to come out we kept foing it uh the state eventually said that Lawrence had to give it they didn't give it and we fored with the district attorney's office and sure enough it came and then we released it we want you to see the Bennett report report we want you to see the Maverick report and compare them when you get them and just figure out what's going on here and you'll see everyone's Smart in this room okay we owe it not only to the mayor to the police department but more importantly to the citizens of this city that we do what's right and the police department is unfortunately suffering from this political volleyball game that's happening in this city somebody got disgusting and my is are suffering because of it but according I want to know about the time frame did you waited one month four weeks we waited I I would say as far as how long we waited for from the initial forer couple of months correct couple of months couple of months and according to your uh um when was the report ready when was it read done done completed we we think the report was done uh soon after um Chief Castro fail to comply with uh HR Director owens's U um directive to submit to an interview keep in mind that was given on October 7th and he he said he can come in in three weeks even though he's collecting $210,000 a year another issue but thank you so much thank you council president thank you for taking the time for thank you for having us we appreciate this and and we hope that we can move the city forward that's how councelors any other questions thank you thank you for your time uh one more thing for Atty Hilton so we can uh you can provide us with this uh this date that is being a little confusing uh to to to to some counselors uh since the since the pursuit happened uh in February and the Benet uh the Benet that the consultant was hired to start the investigation on AUST why six month waiting per period for that to happen um I think there was an internal investigation by the mayor's office first there was the report by the police department there was a review um and I think then it was just looking for someone to um to do it was a 6 months and 17 days total before by by the between the time that the incident happened and the time that Ben Ben Start uh doing some interviews understood I just I don't want to I thought I heard you just say that there was a series of Bennett Maverick but initially there was an investigation by the mayor's office the mayor's office looked into it after a result of the um the uh police forming them they did an internal investigation they did not hire an investigator they just looked at it themselves do we have their findings what were there do we have letter yes we have a letter that that from the mayor's office after they did their IAL report yes I would think that's probably Germaine to this conversation if you got if we're going to be looking at all the reports right if we're looking at the whole thing we we should probably have a copy of that sure do you want to request that Cel I just did I mean usually when we do when we don't do things through a motion I mean kind of tough well the City attorney has never disappointed this counselor with and I don't think any us I I I can't speak for anybody else UT most professionalism and I know that he will respond accordingly so do you need a motion coun of City attorney or can we just provide it if the council president wishes to give me a list I think I have a list of what I think I need to supplement but if council president would give me a list of the documents that this board would give I'm more than ha that way I don't mess up nobody says I'm trying to hide anything but I'm happy to give you any docu and all documents yeah we'll provide you with the list to you if he done yep are you done um Council what do you want me to ask for coun ask for the cont of the new consultant maver can we the there desire to get a contract for the for the Maverick consultant Maverick for Maverick for the list yes I guess the council president is keeping the list keep that we we are keeping the list and we so far we have the M the mbre contract we have that uh the initial investigation from the mayor's office and uh certain certain counselors have asked for the uh the yeah the addendums the addendum so you got the report you did not get the addendums which are the supporting documents I will get the supporting documents again and C yeah just to wrap this up I don't know how much longer this is going this evening uh I've been pretty much exhausted what I need to find out for tonight CU I've read the report but um and but it was good to get the clarification ification that adds to the comprehension but are we expecting that we're going to table this this evening or are we expecting to I mean the of the if that's the desire of the council I think that we sure and then we can add the report and then open up the uh another meeting eventually I mean I'm I'm I don't know where we are on this thing I'm I'm ready at any moment now to table this matter and yeah we have a few councelors that would like to have other questions councel Ros I just have one question about the letter that uh the plan the Council of the plan actually asked was this letter drafted by you no you didn't draft this letter no what letter they you refer no the letter that it was it the that he requested oh the original report from the mayor's office yeah cor okay just a question Council leby yes um he mentioned that not just only that was the some kind of Investigation at the level of the major office but Al are the labor or the police department are we going to be able to get those the internal police investigation I'll see if I have that I don't know if there is there intern's Affairs I don't think that they were able to do an investigation because they cannot investigate the chief I don't think that they did one yes they did one that's only the police report those those are all part of the those are contained in the documents I will give you okay thank you council president councilor uh councelor U Vice presidant thank you uh attorney hen within the report it states that um after poll took eliminated um Chief castr the suspended thank you my mind wasn't working suspended um leave me provisional Chief Castro it states that he engaged in certain city um official business pertaining to the police department particularly budgetary budget um conversations with other members uh being present was that it was he able to do that was he able to be part of those conversations cuz from my understanding he was not there was supposed to be no no contact I I believe that that was part of the um New provisional uh Chief being unable to do the budget so but regardless of that was he was he allowed to engage in those official B City business conversations it was not supposed to okay so I did ask this question before um and my answer was the answer that I received was that the City attorney said that he was allowed to come in to come into this building correct and was allowed to participate he that the mayor gave him permission to come in and to participate in those conversations after the discretion of the City attorney that was the answer I received so can you clarify that please the answer is I was asked if William Castro could enter City Hall could he work yes my answer was yes on both of those could he involve himself at anything involving the police department my answer was no but as Chief of Staff if he wanted to work with the DPW if he as Chief of Staff if he wanted to do anything as a a he's still being paid as an employee of the mayor of the city he could be asked to come in he could be come asked to come in I'm not this is a wild example and sweep the floors he he is an employee the his only prohibition was that he could not engage anything involving the police department thank you which from my and correct me if I'm misinterpreting what I read within the the the report from my understanding it was pertaining to the budget of the police department which from what now you're clarifying he was not allowed to do he was not supposed to engage in anything police we we broke that law anything okay thank you so essentially you're referring to the April 19 meeting that happened between uh uh then suspended uh chief Cas the mayor or the representative of the mayor's office uh the the current chief and another officer that's that's why you referring Council Point States that's what the report says so so but according to the post suspension it says very clear that this person cannot engage into any uh police activities that is correct uh and that was violat on April 19 uh during that uh meeting that's what the again I was not pres but that's what the report says Okay C president c c Santiago I have a question about the chief police contract yes and so and I hate to say this because this is good which Chief of Police that that's sad that's sad that's very sad actually Castro okay and the the general question is the acting acting chief police can they have contract they can I don't recommend it um Chief vasque before had a contract on a temporary basis um if it's a little different with Chief Bas because he came from the Police Department chief Castro came from the city hall and I believe the purpose of that contract was to protect his rights to return to work if he was sarily dismissed as police chief why do you not recommend I don't think it's necessary I I think it's a temporary position I I think you're terminable at will by the Poli by the chief uh by the um by the mayor um and it's a temporary position again we don't have contracts for permanent positions so I just don't I don't recommend it as a practice is it illegal no is it prohibited is not I just that's my opinion is the reason that you didn't sign again there's so many miscommunications on there and I just want to say this one time finally I review all contracts for the City of Lawrence I review them for form I I don't order anything that's contained in there I don't draft the language contained in there I don't say whether it's good that we buy salt for the for the DPW I that's not my job my job is to look have all the appropriate parties signed the contract is it legally enforcable are the terms correct are all the documents there that's all I do so I am to form if you see my signature at any time it says as to form meaning that I believe that the form of this contract is correct not that it is um that I believe the the city needs it or should do it or wants it that's not my prerogative mine is just if the city wants to enter a contract is it legal and that's what I sign one more question president if he you are the the lawyer for for the city who made the contract for the employees who makes everybody makes their own contracts the the DP if there's a contract in the DPW director DPW director makes it if there's a you know contract I draft the contracts for people in my office so when you see a contract for the first assistant second assistant I've drafted that because they're my employees if it's someone in the mayor's office they draft their own contracts um and you know most of the contracts we get are from outside agencies but yeah thank you you're welcome do you Mr br re I want to go back to the investigation uh we had two uh two company from our city to do the investigation to uh to identify and present the clar about this uh about this issue uh how many uh investigation we have we have two for the city and also we have one from uh police department I'm afraid at this point I'm not going to answer because some of those people don't know they'll be investigated sometimes the investig you know if I would to tell you that we have various investigations people may not respond to them people may not respond so there are other there could be other investigations there could not be other investigations but when they are completed I I will give you the information but again if if if someone were investigating me for fraud you wouldn't tell me because then I would know I go back to agree with my colleagu because we when you don't have the answer and we have the question uh we make a question but we don't have the answer it's a little bit I understand I want to say frustrated but uh I don't want to use that kind of War but we try to to we have our own question but what they mention uh you can respond son you cannot respond another on so it's complicated I will I will say it again sorry if I repeat myself if any individual counselor wishes to come oneon-one and come to my office and wants to know some information I'm happy to share all any at all information this is a public meeting everything I say and do here is publicly known yes things I cannot tell you here I can tell you I'm very appreciated you be here but and also we have a constituent and they want to be uh more information about this kind of but if I told again if I told you in private I would tell you you canot okay may C Le thank you president so C but before we CC you're done yes I'd be good thank you so much okay coun Santiago asked you about contract the different contract that people sign so I just hear that like one of the Contra is not like legal because they need like a three signature or that is okay to have two signat no they do not need my signature to be legal a contract is between parties it's between the Pary before we go on that do you have the chatter with you City chatter do you have it with you the chatter no I do not have yes okay let me pass the chatter to him please I wish I knew there was a quiz yes there's a three point section what you're referring to is section 3.6 it says the City attorney shall draft all contracts okay thank you C you might continue what I'm just waiting for answer regarding the contract you know regarding um the contract can be again the contract can be legal without my signature contract can be legal without the yes if it has the appropriate the both parties to the contract sign it it is a legal anding contract so this is something that I saw on on the news uh the TV that's you know that we will having contract that is no legal now the question the question was not about the legality of the contract the question was about drafting the contract so that was the the interpretation of the news that was the that was what I was questioning and I don't draft the contracts so somebody like it's like you say it's between it says on the CH the 3.6 that you sure are shall it says shall draft our contracts leases Deeds bonds conveyances obligations thank you so much I have never in my life as an attorney that's fine that's fine but what what I wanted to establish is that it's on the Chanel yes it says they don't in the the city the city attorney should draft all contract and leases should draft but sh sh draft not sure sh well but he said do do need the trees Ina because they been calling this like this Contra is not legal because it's a missing and what I can see on the different Contra is the it's the same Contra that was signed a couple of years ago for somebody else and it's practically the same only change name and you also misinforming the public right now because the contract that you're referring to councel leevy is is the contract for uh the former the former Chief of Police Roy Basque and that specifically state that is a month toon contract so read it and that way you can get informed and that way you don't say in general that it was the same contract because in section five of castr castr contract it says that if he doesn't get confirmed to his employee he's going back to the chief to the chief of to the uh Chief of Staff position so it is not the same contract because Roy was not the chief of staff it's not so then don't say that it's the same because because you hear on the radio we talking about signature that a signature is been missing and is not according to the Ator because it's between the party but in according to the city chadow that he read section 3.6 which is the main law of the city it says that he shall draft it he drop oh okay Char okay but no time thank you any other councilors council president sign is one thing and Cil president councel and I'm just going to ask a question so who uh draft the through you cons president who draft the contract between the mayor and Castro I have no idea ah was not made so we getting information so according to uh what we know Mr Castro broke his own contract for the record I have no idea but it's your responsibility to look out for the city and for the mayor so did you review the contract yeah he did I reviewed a proposed contract proposed contract because your job is to make sure that the major is uh doing something legal correct did you did you ask who wrote the Contra who wrote the contract when you review it no okay so for to be honest with you and we're parsing here is there both both counselors are correct what I'm assuming because they look so similar is somebody took the draft of Roy vas contract scratched out the names and wrote in no that that was that was not the case no no that was not the case that was you Mr President I have that was not the case let's stop misinforming if we haven't read it the Roy Basque contract says it's a month by month I'm not saying by terms council president I'm not saying they are identical much the same as I do with any document if I do a document with Council of the plan I do a document with you what I do is I take a base contract that I have and I modify it to the terms that you want whether it's month to month of week if you look at the contract it's similar in nature I would say that someone found a draft modified it I'm not saying it's idal no way ID for it to be identical it would have to be with but that was but that was not the case I'm going to keep on saying that it's identical it was not identical I'm not saying it's identical I'm saying they they are similar it seems to me that somebody took an an old document said I'd like it I get that quite frequently I I find documents and I look at it I said well this is the old um you know whb president document they they copied it and they change it it's a new document but I I know where the base came I got you the floor have the floor thank you thank you counil president I appreciate it uh so can when this contract was draft it uh and I I'm asking because I'm not completely uh I don't know uh that uh it's Mr Castro was the chief of staff when this contract was draft I believe yes okay so the chief of staff can write contracts again I don't know who wrote you don't know okay okay uh but it's illegal to is that a conflict of interest if an employee rides his own contract yes or no is that a conflict of interest not illegal I would I would review it no conflict of interest not illegal or legal that's two different things it again not a conflict of interest if if you were to ask me to become the Personnel director and told me to draft my own contract I would do that there's no problem with that I would have it reviewed by another attorney to make sure the city's protected but there's no problem with who drafts it that's the purposes you you have to look at it to see what the conflict according to the city chter is a problem for the city council and I understand your point of view okay and and so you just said that that it's possible that Castro wrote his own contract and the mayor signed it and it's very possible it's possible it's very possible and I think it was it happened like that knowledge let's stick to let's stick to the Ben let's stick to the Benny report the Ben report thank you council president thank you uh Council vice president let's stick to the V report please thank you I was going to clarify the no no no that's fine the massachusett been said um because all right I'm just going to read this the perks of having a city laptop I just Googled um the question that my colleague had here and I'm just going to read it real quick in Massachusetts a mayoral chief of staff may not have direct or indirect financial interest in a contract made by the municipality they work for without an exemption this is due to the state's conf of interest law which aims to prevent public employees from acting in their own self-interest if that's the case even if you were to ask I don't think um they would be truthful of who wrote the contract and that's that's all I want to say all right thank you counceling inant any anything else on the Benet report councelors yes I would like to ask councelor you have a question for yes all right councelor Rees uh we can have for the next meeting both contract for week compil because when I see through the social media I look like a very similar both contract so we're talking about the the uh I talking about for the chief Contra because I want to comp with Police contract yes I I want to have both to to see the difference because when I saw in the social media I saw I already see it but I want to compare to see uh what my president mentioned what is the difference in both contracts uh so but right now I'm not if you want and I hate to say later um I can run right in the Cofe machine and give you both right now oh I I I really apprciate we comp we compiling a list that we will have all the documents well I that is no uh councelors anything else on the banet report I think when we had the full documentation it's amazing to had to to read and compare and everything like that yep look at the terms that's important too uh councelors any other questions in regard to the Benet report uh I guess that we are ready to uh to do the next step uh which is up to the city council what do you guys decide to do with this uh item um motion to table there's a motion to table no discussion on the table matters can I hear a second second properly second uh all us please say I I uh I have it motion to adjourn there's a motion to adjourn there's a second we second please say hi ni have it thank you e