just let you go it's good I'm good I think we're good honestly good yeah I don't think Jay you may need to start the meeting Jimmy said he might be running about five minutes later he anything I'm right here for no problem [Music] you I notic that when I came in there you go it's got thank you no he's probably an HR he's up here has the after hours code which I can never remember yeah e e e we'll call the uh budget Workshop number one for Tuesday July the 2nd uh 2024 it's 5:30 p.m. here at City commission Chambers call of meeting to order uh would you please rise for the invocation and a [Music] pledge Heavenly Father we ask that you watch over this group tonight and you help us make good decisions for the city of leeburg in their finances we do this in your name amen pledge ALG to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for [Music] okay hand it over to Al you ready go ahead and let's uh start the fun all right well uh this presentation's pretty much as uh the same as they have been for the last several years maybe with a couple deviations in um how we develop the draft budget for yall um so tonight obviously our schedule is to talk about the general fund the general fund all those things listed up on the list the city commission budget public Outreach Administration police fires the LI in share of the general fund uh Public Works Recreation all all those uh funds that are funded with General revenues um Tuesday we get I think probably have a little more significant well this is significant all the discussions are significant right um I think but I think a lot of times when we we get to the general fund we look to Capital Improvements and different things that we want to do that make uh an annual significant impact on community so those discussions are Tuesday next week and then Thursday uh we start hitting up with some of the the other Enterprise funds um so this year kind of the biggest difference I I think is um our initial uh prompt of the commission on where some of your goals were so I wanted to put this together and and I added my recommendation in there if you remember for last year um everybody's there's some similarities in there believe it or not um but I also tried to associate kind of goals with um what respective funds they're in um so like for example I'm on skip commissioner Barry right now she she's not here commissioner canel um responded with um advertising for South leeburg and lower millage rate those are obviously general fund issues um commissioner reesman beautification code enforcement additional Wi-Fi branding promoting leberg downtown marketing lights and funding FSL program most of those are all General funds um let me go to like downtown marketing lights I put special and General in there probably CRA funds too so special revenues so remember our funds we got the general fund which is the general revenues the CRA funds which are the incremental revenues and then the special revenues are essentially for our purposes for Capital um capital projects DST revenues there's some other impact fees stuff that that we'll talk about some cash and those type of things so um those are different areas where potentially we could fund some of those things uh infrastructure management from bur which um that you know that's obviously pretty broad uh but that's going to be Enterprise funds so water sewer electric gas um also recreational improvements uh some of these the Susan Street Sleepy Hollow Marine are kind of already on the agenda uh that's pretty much funded with special stuff with with grants so we'll get into more of those discussions uh Peterson was enhanced Public Safety refocus on downtown um getting back to the parking projects the Market Street projects um implementation of the cap uh the Tropic purchase um this so you in the in the respect of funds um commissioner burer still isn't here so I'm going to go ahead and hit hers um she had she wanted to introduce to the commission a concept for a wall that would a protective wall that would go down kind of as a an add an addition to the suan street project but would essentially run the trail that's like the extension of Red Raider road if you will um City Hall security enhanced police protection uh continuation of the home Grant uh the John L Johnson Park restroom and summer tutoring programs um as a broad overcap from the commission it responses and I think you guys gave those to me probably over the last 90 days um some of those things we're already doing um like for example the wifi you know we try to grow that a little bit each year incrementally um the um some of them we we weren't able to tackle um uh the or we weren't able to tackle due to we need to discuss these things Tuesday night because I think what we're going to see when we start breaking into uh cips is some competing demands and so we're going to have to collectively come up with some Concepts on how to shift some blocks or or make Cuts or Shuffle the deck or whatever synonym you want to use but downtown Market lights um Market Street Parking implementation of Tropic uh Susan Street even has some conflicts in there too so I think we're going to have to shuffle the deck on how we move forward with some of these things and rank them um and that's probably more of a Tuesday conversation um and then I I also wanted to throw in some of the input uh that we talked about ending last fiscal year which was from me um my hopes was that as we moved into the fiscal year 25 budget um the new the new improvements this is really the first year that we're really realizing a significant input from the villages in terms of their growth and and all that new Revenue My Hope was to kind of split that three ways increase Public Safety um hopefully have some money for general fund and I'll talk about that in more detail later but for general fund Capital Improvement spending and then lower the electric transfer I'll talk more about electric transfer in detail as we get into the project um um do you guys have any comments on that it they're pretty broad um but they're kind of served as the perimeter where we hit um from that list though the number one thing that I think that that's the resounding issue is the enhancement of Public Safety I think that speaks to Crime throughout community that speaks to inability to tackle homelessness now T now now in coupled with um the new law that the state legislature passed um so I think that's a significant issue and I think especially at the police department we really start at a disadvantage uh because from a staffing level for years and years the city has not funded the police department to levels that other communities have um and and so there there is a bit of a catch-up game I think with regard to that and as we dig into the numbers you we see it quickly um so with that let's move into this year's budget and and growth so the growth is primarily Villages investment we've talked a lot about we've had a million puds um the the number is about 40,000 uh lots that have been planned um of that the villages is a big a big chunk at 14,18 to be exact um so that leaves the the the remainder of you know 30 some thousand lots that are non Villages related um so if you look at our taxable growth so we we put it in taxable value first our our initial estimate from June 1 was 38.8% one of the biggest growers in the county um as of July one that number went up uh a little bit more so our taxable value as of June 1 uh from last year's ending at 2.5 billion taxable value to 3.4 that number is about 3.5 now I'll talk to you about that again at the end so that's a gross of almost a billion dollar in a single year so that's a um 38.8% however when you dig into that number it's pretty much all Villages growth so the next chart I wanted to show you is this chart down here and it kind of the percent of taxable value goes back to the tax value assess percentage so of the $968 million so almost a billion dollars uh that is pretty much all from The Villages so 30 of the 38% 30 of that growth is the villages so you know that's you know an inverse there 70% of that number is Villages so the villages is an input to us of 750 billion or 750 million dollar 3/4 of a million dollar of the taxable growth is attributable to The Village's growth on a side note of about the 32504 lots that were supposed to go in The Villages of weight La of villages of West Lake it's about 27 what was the number Brandy 22742 lots are accounted for in this budget so we've got about what's the math about 500 more lots to look for uh for next year um core leberg this is the big number um 5% I think by all practical purposes this doesn't compare to what you're seeing in terms of PUD approval rates right we're seeing puds come in all the time all the time um but for all practical purposes the that doesn't mean those puds won't grow that doesn't mean the discussions that we're having and concerns about puds won't happen but it means it's not I don't think it's as accelerated as we think because we're seeing these big numbers which relate back to the Villages but when that Villages number goes around if core leberg stays and those lots that you've approved the puds um stays in this 5% range then you're going to see this big giant number really Trail off and probably look like more of the rest of the county more of a Mount Dora growth number or even for that matter if you look at at Claremont growth numbers it's it probably is going to start dropping back to the S and a half to 10% rate is and that and that so that's doubling what what it's showing right now the other area remember when we get these lump sum numbers it includes the CRA so remember we got to pull that CRA growth out and then that gets shuffled over the deck to the CRA funds so from that there's about 4% of the 38% of CRA growth so that so this is the so rounded up there 39 so the general fund sees about 38% of the 35% of the 39% growth is if you will um but now let's transfer that to revenue so the remember the revenue formula is your assess value and you and you count on receiving 95% of your assess value by the way that's statutory so the formula is 90 95% of your taxable value divided by a th times your mill rate now that that translates into dollars so if we do this based on the current mill rate 3.47 52 The Villages brings in 2.5 million by the way that's what we thought at the beginning about where it is and so there's still another five 500 houses out there when this is all said and done it'll probably be about three million so that's that's exceeding actually the portfolio because remember Villages revenue is now going to break down into two other big sources so the first one being ADV valorum which is what you're seeing here the second one will be utility and franchise fees and then as the state catches up with population growths we'll see more in state shared revenues and we'll see more in local option uh gas tax but that's going to be competing with some of the other formulas so really utility franchise and property taxes is where you're going to see the line and share that and then maybe a little bit more discretionary sales tax and some other estate shared revenues but that's really the line share where you see the growth our budget really focuses we we tined up some of those budget numbers and we'll get into that in a bit but not a whole lot core leberg New Growth about 410,000 and then CRA growth is 360,000 so that remember that gets shuffled off into the the cras and we'll talk about that later so all in all at the current rate about $2.9 million of new ad vorum growth so now let me muddy the waters there's there's there's four primary areas in this year's $37 million budget where we see sign I'm using the word significant and as we go through the details you'll see some ups and you'll see some downs but of significant Revenue increases for fiscal year 25 obviously the and this is at 3.4 so three at the current millage rate so ADV valorum taxes up 2.9 Million utility taxes up 545,000 franchise fees primarily that's Duke and Villages numbers and oh by the way we're in a little bit of an argument with Duke because I don't think Duke's been keeping up to speed with counting the growth that's coming in there so I have we have weekly uh arguments with Duke to have them speed up on their count and they're in quote unquote an internal audit as we speak um I'm going to tell you I think they're about 6 months behind they really have no excuse for that because in 18 Brad re Brad's not here he's not a he's not a taker um um but I want to say 1819 time frame is when we did the territorial agreement where we took some Sumpter County property that was Duke and we gave them the North 470 property because the concept from The Villages was they wanted like villages to be served by the same uh utility supplier so long all that means Duke knows we flip flop these properties Duke knows we flip-flo these properties years ago it went before the Public Service Commission Duke didn't count the new meters that are spinning and as of Remember by the assessed value numbers as of December 31st 2023 there was 2752 houses that were on the tax rolls and so if their houses on the tax rolls that means that's a base Bill and a meter spinning um so how do we culate how do we add that in so how did I come up how did we come up with this number on franchise growth the average bill is 1,000 kilowatts the average Duke bill is 165 kilowatts so it's aund or the average Duke bill is $165 a month on a, Kow 165 * 6% * 12 * I think 27 00 is half a million bucks so it's an estimate still thinking well we need to get that if we don't get that then we probably will need to be litig um but I think why today what we can put off till tomorrow I I think so and and I and I think the other thing I would caution the commission about I caution the commission not no this isn't our issue but this is where the IUS kind of Hit the I'm G to say Municipal corporations with a black eye oh that's not our fee that's your city taxing you and and they'll tell you that whether you're an electric city or a nonelectric city so so when all the villagers complain or if they get back T back charged for franchise fees that they didn't pay Duke is going to blame it on us and the truth of the matter is Duke's behind and every Municipal Corporation in the state has a franchise fee on electric um get our money the that's way digression um the other big issue the other big Revenue to look at is the fire assessment fee this is a growth of 335,000 rounding up for you um remember though that pieces with what we've already collected and that the major growth in the fire fire assessment fee does end up going back to the Villages we'll talk about that a little while anyway so of all the major growth at the current millage rate we're looking at about $4.3 million new dollars on how to spend it let me digress just two seconds because we want to compare 3.4 to 3.2 in millage rates those the 3.2 is the millage rate um so if you go with a roll back millage rate where're essentially the big thing that changes is instead of collecting 2.9 in ADV valorum Revenue you're going to collect about 2.1 so instead of 4.3 in new revenues you're going to have 3.5 so the Delta is you leave about 800 $110,000 on the table so not quite a million bucks all right those are the revenues major expense highlights I think break down into four categories if you go back later on and you start subtracting these numbers and redoing it you're going to say men or what are you talking about so I agree um what I tried to do in these numbers is I tried to break it down easy um these these numbers are going to unfold a lot of different ways and probably myself if you ask me a specific question I'm going to have to think about it but the purpose of how I broke these numbers down was to just really boil down where that new money is going um so if you add these four categories together it's going to equal about that $4.3 million of new Revenue so the first place increase the roll back correct I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna come back to you on a comparison um and and come up with you know where the Deltas are and where you all may want to go so this everything is based on trying to make a significant a significant increase in general services for the city of leeburg and these four areas number one is Police Services um the police department budget increases 1.5 million bucks um and where does it go the Lion Share of it goes to Personnel uh probably in the neighborhood of about 1.2 million I'm only showing 700,000 now but if you go to those Personnel lines you're going to see increases really in retirement and other benefits and when you roll all that together plus Cars Plus this plus that you get to 1.5 and I kept these numbers again another reason I boiled these things down was because if you say we want to get to roll back or meet halfway between the Middle we got to do it in blocks and So you you're not going to catch you know total blocks it so there's a method to the madness there um so the increase of 12 officers increases us from 72 sworn officers to 80 what's the 80 72 84 um so where did we get that number we got it from the police department the police department basically says if we're going to grow police officers we have to grow in incremental blocks to cover shifts to cover administrative officers and we have to work the work the increase based on the hierarchy and based on scheduling so they needed an increments of six so we started off the budget with six brand new officers all the Associated promotions and blah blah blah and and bottom line was we couldn't afford it we started with 12 right 12 I said there I said the wrong we started out with 12 effective October one um and and bottom line there is two problems a we couldn't afford it and B come October one we knew we're not going to have 12 new people we weren't going to have shifts so in there is inherently bad budgeting because we're over budgeting in expense versus Revenue so how do we start trying to make this affordable we came up with kind of a step plan so October one three new officers and an internal promotion one Lieutenant so we are creating a lieutenant position um so it's 12 new officers but on as we get to that rank of lieutenant and above sergeants and above that's typically going to be po most potentially an internal officer getting bumped up to the higher rank which is a promotion for them which then opens up another lower position so not only is that the officer and but then we're going to have to we'll have more hiring than CH I think it's an initial nine was that is it 8 p1s or something like that what's the number first prank you're going to get four in October one is that what you're saying no um if I confuse you we'll come back um so essentially the the the plan would go three new off there's one Lieutenant effective October 1 April 1 halfway through the fiscal year one more Lieutenant one more Sergeant which is kind of preparing the supervisory rows and the and the ranking staff rank officers and then by June one we bring in the last of the the 12 new officers which would be six the good thing to that is I it's within our parameters the bad thing is these last the half of this expense to grow the department the the this this seven plus the 5 the 1.2 million bucks we're going to need to wait on that so we're kind of loading the fiscal year 24 budget waiting for New Growth to to come in next year I'm gonna say that's reasonable that's the police department new firefighters does that increase Services I think that's probably arguable no we don't increase Services the biggest complaint though that we hear from the fire department we hear it during the fiscal year and pretty much every year for the last couple of three years at least we hear from the iff that there that lebg fire department especially the Griffin and Canal stations are the busiest stations by far throughout Lake statistic support that and that our our service force is has a tremendous amount of workload which doesn't allow them to take their their scheduled and earned PTO off so the biggest thing we hear is burnout overworked they need to have more rest vers versus the the the um the high-risk performance stuff that they do okay so the the the response back to the fire department and this budget barring where you guys go though is to change this we need to decrease hours of work I'm going to use round numbers we the fire department if members work about 2,900 hours a year our proposal back to them to give them the break that they're asking for is to work Less hours but increase their pay for us it's a net neutral 4% to them it's a 4% increase with less work so instead of the 2900 hours it's about 2400 hours to do that again increments uh we have a ABC shift so like the police department we need to build it in increments for us to be able to cover lower work hours without seeing overtime go crazy and get people out the chief mayor thinks you need about six additional firefighters to get to the number to give a a more a I'm not going to say mod AOW lower working requirement for the fire department so the increase of the fire department there's a million bucks there the next big one is reduction of electric transfer the biggest reason there's two major reasons for why I continue to come back to the city commission almost now on a yearly basis encouraging you Ras the transfer is toold a pressures from the state legislature um this pressure from from the state legislature for the last two sessions has been that electric cities need to look more like normal quot normal Municipal corporations so there's 600 Municipal corporations or so in the State of Florida 48 of us are municipal Electric utilities so we're a special breed some of us are pretty significant Municipal electric uh utilities like Kua Jaa OU Lakeland Electric some of us are small smaller ones like Fort me K and leberg probably about Middle Ground as far as as far as customer load and and money spent but I I I believe that that fight is going to continue that fight is demanding that electric cities look more like non-municipal corporations and really we've had a humongous Ally in the state senate um with Senator Baxley um Senator Baxley is now termed out so we will have a new Senator this is not a representation of the new Senator that will be representing our area but it is a representation of the seniority that our new Senator will not have um Senator Baxley was highly regarded State Legislature um served as high as you could almost in the house same in his Senate service he was from Okala he was a friend of Municipal electric he this last session he kept legisl off the floor that was in the house so there is question there is concern what is this legislation going to look like with that concern continuing to grow we really can need to continue even though I think we've probably been one of the most proactive Municipal Electric utilities in the state as far as reducing our transfer we have to continue to keep doing this we have to continue to get the electric Fund in Ence out of the general fund I think it will be a critical element for us moving forward before it's forced upon us and if you look at the legislation that's been passed the last couple of years it's it's it's m it's forcing the changes that I'm recommending to you 6% caps having an authority having representation for your non electric C for your electric customers that aren't corporate residents I think that's what equals so number one we're being forced to do it number two this will be the conversation on the 11th the electric fund unfortunately can't afford the significant transfer for a number of reasons I'll be super brief here but it's exstensively inflation Personnel cost increases that are forced by the market and some Investments where growth hasn't spun meteors yet I think that that time frame does eventually end I think the leeburg electric service box fills to where some of the pressures on growth won't be as great as we've seen in the past few years because we're in a box and is when the Box filled I don't see util I don't see our uh neighboring territories Duke SEO trading territory with us anymore unless you know they're at an advantage or unless it's a customer for customer thing so I don't I don't really see territorial agreements changing the box so the Market has affected the electric fund State Legislative priorities has affected the legislative fund that means we need to continue to reduce our Sal our transfer 1.5 million before I leave this let me tell you what this represents a $1.5 million reduction in the transfer means the general fund will receive about 1.6 million from the electric fund one .6 million represents a 6% franchise fee so in other words if we did not have our own Municipal electric utility system we'd be having this Duke argument you know that the six we wouldn't have be having the Duke argument but we would the Duke phenomenon we would have our 6% franchise fee on Incorporated customers on corporated sales so the inverse of our our utility is 60% of our customers of our 27,000 customers are outside the corporate limits but 60% of our sales are inside the corporate limits so that means if we didn't have the utility we would be getting 6% of electric sales on the sales that are in our corporate limits so if this came down and you could only transfer 6% based on who your corporate limits are the transfer of $1.6 million equals that demand and it's a reduction of 1.5 that's so everything that's presented in the general fund is saying worst case scenario we can only take 6% that represents our customer base inside corporate limits if we accomplish that that is significant there's another little thing I'll talk to you about but we're going to save that for electric fund okay so after police increase fire increase electric transfer decrease we're left with about $1.47 million of stuff so where is all that stuff going about $550,000 to a projected 4% pay increase $412,000 for The Village's fire assessment fee so you saw that growth in the revenue most of that fire assessment fee goes back to the Villages um $175,000 and our want to increase the fleet lease everybody remembers the fleet lease right so we take a vehicle we depreciate it over the value so say five years and then whatever Department pays the value of that that fiveyear depre now the depreciation is going to change based on what type of equipment it is but so so for simple math a car five years so if it's $50,000 car the lease payment is $10,000 that lease payment goes into the fleet fund that builds the cash to buy a replacement vehicle and so we we we we talk about this every year so what we're trying to do is we take that number every vehicle depreciated value we add it up and then we divide that amongst all the Departments and we've been at 50% 50% 50% of that number we moved up to 75% a couple years ago and now we're getting to the point to where the fleet fund cash is reducing to where we think we need to bump up and get to 100% so the full value of the depreciated value over the years plus the cars so that's how we get that number so to increase from 75% to 100% Fleet lease that's hitting the general fund in the amount of 175,000 general liability insurance is also going up we impose that on ourself but it matches with how we how we do this about 97,000 and then all the other stuff increasing chemicals at the pool uh paper is up utility bills are up you all the other little stuff like why did this budget line change 20,000 bucks and you know and that in the budget in that light item that looks big all those crazy little numbers that we'll break down into detail it's about 250 Grand so that the purpose of this slide is to show you we have major expense blocks where we're trying to significantly change the service level so if you add all this up back to kind of where we were in revenues about 4.3 million in new revenues police expansion fire expansion reduction in transfer other items so that's about $5.6 million on the wish list for a deficit of about 1.3 million bucks so put everything in the hopper you know plus this minus that this is kind you know I'm not trying to be fuzzy I'm try I'm not trying to be fuzzy I'm trying to just to make it concise and clear so we have significant programming increases we have significant new revenue and when we put it all together your budget right now is in a deficit of 250,000 bucks so that's not a crazy number um I presented it to you that way um to kind of show you where we're at and if you feel feel that these programs are what we where we need to go that's where we're at now remember that number is going to change every 1 July 1st August 1st September 1st and then there'll even be a final October 1st that $250,000 number has already changed um I alluded to that a little bit because the assessed value's gone up a couple hundred million bucks which equals so the one the 250 is already reduced to 142 so about a 100 Grand that's why you know I wanted to show you have a deficit but I also wanted to show you that that deficit is not crazy and that I wouldn't make any rash decisions on trying to manipulate how do we get 250 Grand because my guess is by the time we get to September in the budget hearings that number will probably catch up with just the assessor's office ratcheting up the numbers remember they do review and review and review and so that you know I think will catch up okay could you go back to this um breakout of the four um yeah that one can you clarification please so with the increase of fire Services as of October 1 how many firefighters would that be I mean just roughly can you give me just an idea okay and same for the police 48 now is that right Chief 45 45 now so it' be 45 plus 6 I'm also let me let me digress on this topic two I didn't want to get bogged down in particulars but this is but that question jogs memory and so let me get this out um at the last commission meeting you approved the PBA contract uh the PBA contract call for a 4% wage increase it did not call for increasing officers having said that we did negotiate in good faith that our attempt was to bring on more officers so I do think that that went a long way to having the police department capitulate to the 4% increase which we of course thought was reasonable but the I think the other side of the table said yay the city's finally getting more officers that's going to give us a a a better way to accomplish some of the issues and that we're not so stressed on the police side the fire side is similar they are asking for 18% increases we're coming back to the table with them with no that's an unreasonable request we think that your pay is reasonable reasonable is the the factual definition is 97% of the market average the market average is like departments for our region which is most of the cities in Lake a couple in Su and The Villages not cities in Tampa not cities in South Florida where cost of living is high and not cities where the city does transport everybody understands that right there's a bifurcation in fire Services of taking of transporting patients to the hospital versus treating them at the site when you get into the transport business which in Lake County the county does for us and we pay a mill rate on it there there's a significant change in expectation from a union member or paramedic only or paramedic firefighter who does transportation and and those aren't comparable numbers typically the the the department that does do Transportation their wages are slightly higher typically those departments are also more urban although everybody would probably argue that we're becoming Urban but Urban I'm G say is South Florida Tampa um so what that leaves us with I is tomorrow we meet with the Union our presentation to them will be the reduction in Workforce it will also be if they approve that we also come back to you so we would if we ta an agreement tomorrow at a 4% increase and the reduced work hour then we go to the ratification vote the union ratifies it you all ratify it at the time of that ratification vote we will also we will do two things we would say we'd like to ratify whatever we tively agreed to maybe tomorrow and we would like to do this because we would like to do this in a way that gets three firefighters hired now there's a similar phenomena with timing where before we can switch to 24 hours we need to have six new bodies trained and on staff so our our proposal back to the the the fire department is going to be is 4% increase wages go up work hours go down we'll try to get three new firefighters on the end of this fiscal year we have the money and then that only that that gives us from potentially next Monday till April 1 to get six new firefighters on and get the reduced workload down so what that means for the commission is is if we ta tomorrow it would go off to ratification vote if the union ratifies it then we'll be back to you saying ratify with a recommendation to ratify the contract and give us permission to add three new firefighters this fiscal year Commission appreciate you going back there so and the same for the Police Service how many would be as of October police we won't police we won't tackle till next year okay so nothing this year not to for police okay okay so put those put those uh expenses in the hopper um and compare you know the the deficit of 250,000 so mind you the deficit that we have in there is at the current millage rate okay so I think those are really aggressive changes but now the now the bad news if you stay at if you stay at the current mill rate to accomplish the four major things that we have in there the current mill rate is a 7.5% tax increase so I put together this crazy chart which is a 11year synopsis on what have we done as the far as the mill rate has it gone up or down um and how has that affect taxes was it a tax increase was it not a tax increase um I won't go through each and every one of these I'll just I'll remind you of some of the crazy times back in 14 and 15 we actually had a roll forward and everybody's what the heck is a roll forward it's a roll back I had to I had to Rack my brain in 14 and 15 we were still having decreasing assessed values from when the world crashed back in 2010 so when you had decreasing assessed values and to keep the same millage the same tax revenue you had to increase the millage rate we all forgot about that right we all forgot about that because if you saw car's Baker's presentation at Lake at the Lake Regional um League of cities you know he had that number in there car didn't forget it was a pretty good presentation but you know because we've seen so much growth and not only have we caught up from the decrease now we have surpassed it um so there was actually roll forwards and 14 and 15 that we didn't take we kept the millage rate the same which is actually a tax deduction then we did some roll back then we kept it the same then we did some increase then so we've been very frugal with the taxes in 20 in 24 we didn't increase taxes we did increase the fire assessment fee in 23 we did a modest increase and so long story short the bottom line over the past 11 years the millage rate has decreased 8.16% every year on average that's misleading right because that's the millage rate and the millage rate doesn't tell the story for the most part it tells some of the story and it's important number but I think that's a I think that's an ability for lesburg to brag the millage rate has gone down 8% every year for the past 11 years taxes have increased on average 1.89% that includes the proposed 7.5% increase this year so even though 7.5 sounds like a crazy big number it's still modest it still has an overall tax increase to the residents of less than 2% okay so those are percent numbers what does it mean do you want I see note taken do you want me to wait [Music] commissioner okay so what does all the percentage mean in dollars to the resident okay another crazy chart okay it's it's really hard to tell you what that means for the resident because of the 13522 homes I'm I'm guessing but that's probably about what our our tax role no it's not it's that plus Villages so now we're probably sitting around 16 18,000 houses those values are going to go from a significant in number of houses that are actually still below taxable value once you throw a homest set exemption to significant houses that are upwards of a million bucks so that number is impossible to tell you so I did this sliding graph for you and this is City only if your house has had a taxable value after your homestead exemption in fiscal year 24 of 100,50 I did it in 50,000 increments all the way up to 550,000 I would say our average house in lesburg is probably around gym 250ish something like that okay so what does it mean so let's jump to the $250,000 house $250 $250,000 house last year at the current millage rate your city tax bill was 868 bucks if you keep the same millage rate your house is Homestead and it can only go up 3% so now your value is going to be 2575 now instead of an $868 tax bill you're going to get an 894 tax bill from the city Only that's 26 bucks so the seven and a half percent is probably on average somewhere around 25 to 30 bucks for the average resident so on this chart that number spans from 10 bucks to 57 bucks I think the next question you have to ask is well Al that's just the city remember there's a bunch of tax and districts on the bill there's the county there's the school board there's the hospital districts there's the mosquito District there's the mstu for for you know right I keep so this is this so this chart I try to Bunch up your your toal I know I'm walking away but your total tax bill so the total tax bill in leeburg if everybody's military now look there's six I don't know six plus different taxing jurisdictions on your tax bill but if everybody on there stays the same your millage is going to be 15 8956 Ms you got to break that down remember in the two parts the school board still has a $25,000 exemption all the other taxing districts have the $50,000 exemption so if your house is worth 100 Grand you're actually paying a 100 Grand in taxable value at all the non-school district taxing jurisdictions and 125,000 for your school board taxes okay so then if you throw that and you do the comparison assuming I can't say that enough assuming under these assumptions don't come and say that was wrong that was misleading it's an assumption to give you kind of a rudimentary feel for what our change would be the range then goes from 47 to 262 bucks on your tax bill so basically I think I said 10 to 60 on this bill so basically if you take this number and you multiply it by four you're going to get in the ballpark and if you go back and you look at that four you know about four Mills oh there's it's three and change 3.4 so right so say 3 and a 12 Ms divided by 16 Ms not quite 25% of your total tax bill the school board throws it off because of that 25,000 bucks so even if every taxing jurisdiction goes up you know I I won't judge whether you think that is a an unreasonable number and my guess is from conversation around you're probably every we're all struggling with the same inflationary numbers we're all struggling with the same issues electric is high for everybody insurance is high for everybody cost of employment is going up for everybody so my guess I think it's probably a pretty safe assumptions that you're not going to see too many taxing jurisdictions go back to the roll back rate this year um leeburg is probably the one of the very few not the only who who who has been as Frugal with adjusting the millage rate um that so I think that's an important chart so that you know if we go with the increased plan you're the we're making significant steps in changing Service delivery with this budget um and so where do we go we go back to most every other jurisdiction goes to the to your advalorium rates which is really where we need to be and not in the process of milking our utility funds and falsely increasing those to run the general fund we really need to develop a way out of that system this budget almost gets us there um so let's look at where we are in terms of our our our other cities in Lake um we're the third lowest millage rate in the of all the municipal corporations um I think Fruitland Park Leesburg Lady Lake is an important one to look at because in Le in Lake Fruitland Park lesburg and Lady Lake are are would be the villages cities and so I think you can count on those villagers comparing tax bills um and our our tax rates not more than Fruitland Park and it's less than Lake the other thing I will point out in this budget is is is said that backwards yes fine fine got I was already going to the other thing I really want to point out with disrespect we got you the only other Municipal electric utility in our region is Mount Dora I don't know what Mount Dora's transfer levels are I know what ours are next year if you adopt this proposed budget we'll look like every other city in Lake with a 6% franchise fee so we're running our city now everybody always says said oh lebur gets to do everything you want because you got that Electric System you approve this budget that statement is now wrong you were doing almost and I got still got to say almost almost every one of your minicipal services without a significant electric transfer you're doing it with a franchise fee and your mill rate is still one of the lowest in the county that's significant so I won't be L with this chart but it basically show you shows you where we've been since 2013 in terms of the electric transfer that's one of my favorite charts I've ever done that chart is significant so let me jump into that that's kind of there's a couple more little overview slides any questions up to there um okay so where are we at in terms of overall Revenue we go from 33.4 to 37.5 million with the areas of significant increase which I've already covered you always got to throw in the pie chart right because that's what US Government folks do we got to have pie charts and then um really just kind of sum up I I wanted to do a swad analysis strength and weaknesses of the proposal because I think this really sums up very well um what this proposal does so first with the strengths we increase Public Safety I think that's significant I think of of most of the communities in Lake um I'm not going to say we're unsafe but we have room for improvement and this budget really tackles that we continue to boast a low millage rate and very frugal with the tax dollars that we spend and collect this budget moves us closer to looking like a non-electric Municipal Corporation where I think the state is going to continue to push and with that said we still have reasonable Reserve levels the biggest thing with the reserve levels is the vacancies have created that cash for us we've been slow to spend it so that's a good thing weaknesses because of the way we frame the growth in the police department we're still counting on about $600,000 of New Growth to come in from fiscal year 26 I think we'll get there I think that's a reasonable gamble but I do need to inform you that's a little bit of a gamble the main reason for that gamble is is if we say okay we don't want to take that step then I think the chief is going to say then we need to Res schule and then we're we're going to kick the can down on growth of the police department so I think we need to take that gamble but then again we can take that gamble because we've got the reserve levels to potentially cover it and it will also hurt us in Capital Improvements but I I'll get to that in second the other weakness means even though it's kind of an oxymoron uh even that there's less electric funds means higher taxes so yep it's an accomplishment to get the electric fund down but that's equating to higher taxes but see strength even with doing that we still have the third lowest millage rate in the county we continue another weakness not to use General revenues for Capital Improvement projects so we're so the last couple years we've leaned on the American Recovery Act we've leaned on CRA and we've leaned on discretionary sales tax to fund our Capital Improvements next potentially there will be a need to use reserves general fund reserves for future cips namely the three would be if we do parking if we do Market if we do stuff downtown if we do Susan Street probably need to go look and grab in some Reserve money we may if the gamble on the police department's not right also might need to use some Reserve money to cover the gap for 26 that if we do that that really needs to be the first priority cover that gap before we do anything else we've been good about that though and then and then the final thing is there may be need um we don't have this number for you yet I when we do health insurance in a in a in a in on Thursday we were doing really good in the health insurance up until the last two months so our average payment and all claims out needs to hang around half a million bucks a month the last three three two of the last three months we hit 850 and 750,000 bucks so that's going to put us about a million dollars out of whack depending on where the trend goes so I just throw that out there to you because if that $800 750,000 Trend continues for the last quarter we're going to need to find some money we've been propping up the health insurance fund I think it's it's B supposed to say around 2 million we're going to cut through that again and we're going to have to subsidize the the health Insurance Fund again there's two ways to do it increase the employee contribution or find cash I'm going to recommend that we don't go back to the employees health insurance coverage from us I think is one of the biggest not foreseen benefits that employees get and I will make a gamble with you we are about to do a survey of our employees there will be very few of them that says thanks for the health insurance coverage but here we are saying we're not going to Kick the Can onto them and we might need to go grab some of that general fund cash to keep their rates on their on their health insurance down um that's the strength and weaknesses analysis of the proposal um there's your cash chart so you're sitting on you know this is an estimated number br's always conservative you know so we'll probably be somewhere in there around that $15 million number which gives us some room to do some of the things we talked about bring on the firefighters early have some cash if we want to peel off a little bit um but but you know my guess in here you know if you're being super conservative maybe there's about $5 million to bleed off and that puts us down around 10 where our Reserve requirement still about seven and a half so at 10 we're going to have a a still a good Reserve um but basically you know this is really pay as you go we've scrolled away this money for the last several years as you can see um and so you know we're going now to our cash levels to do things whether it's Capital Improvement um My Hope Is that it's more Capital Improvement than Personnel uh because you know Capital Improvement we can fill in the trough if you start under budgeting and using your cash to pay off that budgeting with your reserve money that's where we'll see us getting a whole I think we're going to avoid that but it it needs to be talked about that is the overview we do talk about cor leberg when we're talking about that yes so toine are we including in cor leberg new development South 27 are we including 44 or are we just talking about old leberg when you say good question let me go back so let me and so let me hit you with the answer is this number right here Villages and cor leberg okay so Villages Villages is everything on north and south of 470 gotcha everything else is cor leberg there you go Hodes Anthony Bary Silver Point Springs right Baga orange bin Liberty preserve preserve all those all those other 39,000 what was the number on J 39562 minus 14,1 185 that's cor leberg and and we're sitting right now at 4% increase on those fiveish roughly is yes fiveish is and for us to come to this what does that have to be it doesn't have to be any if it just stays the same if it stays the same we're you know then we're going to have the same core you know and then and now we're in the argument but now we digress right now if we have zero growth right is that a none of the developments come none of the developments on the books come not likely um all of the developments come at once about equally as not likely but I but I I you know when Dan made the Pres presentation to you all couple of few few meetings ago about the comp plan growth what we've seen sustained 4% okay I think that number continues the question becomes is there is obviously a cloud of Orlando megalopolis growth that's coming into Lake and where we see it now is you know we saw it we see it over the mount dway and and sento 46 that Corridor and we see it Claremont grovin mascot and miniola right so obviously that growth is coming this way but there are a significant number of lots you know what I don't have that chart for you I think you really see it in the assessed value chart that Carrie Baker put out to the cities on June 1st what you see is a Slowdown in Claremont if if you can call it that right you see their growth coming back but you see the double digit growth in minola and grovelin you see those subdivisions growing so I I I kind of think that's indicative of the cloud coming right so it's not quite to leeburg and yeah I think it does come to us but I don't I don't think you're going to see every one of our subdivisions grow I don't think you're going to see 38% next year gotcha no that and so then the the question question is well we want zero growth is that a good thing that that's an elected official decision you know that not a not a not your city manager decision I'm here to help you manage it if you got it and manage it if you don't right and how do you break out the CRA growth the 4% out of all of it which word would you say so that that so that's the so the CRA are rooted in that $1 billion of New Growth that new growth is the increment increment so that growth that 360,000 is the portion of the the estimated portion of the of the growth that gets coupled with the County's contribution so that doubles and then it gets divided by three at varying levels uh and I think the way it goes is the number one grower of the CRA is the 44127 the next grower is the Carver Heights and then the slow grower is the downtown so that's the overview of the budget um the next portion of the presentation goes into kind of now the micro and the detail of each and every Department do you guys have any questions on the overall this part of the program you as fast as slow as you want um and then we'll we we finish it up with um pontification and direction from you all so let me take a quick break and we move forward this is you know I mixed this is where I become redundant no change right the same about the same right this because I already told you all the big stuff okay so general fund City and that slide says a million words um you really see where the growth is it's it's police it's fire it's um public it's police fire it's Recreation um and then the other big one you're go who whoa executive uh that's that's the the reason that that's The Village's payment of fire assessment fee so it that's just that's where Buri buried it okay so City commission you your Chang in your budget's about 566 bucks any questions uh what's the promotional service the promotional promotional activities make sure you Jo your is that in the commission budget City commission I think it's the Christmas it's under operating expenses oh yeah that's going to be the Christmas giving everybody the bonuses 481 yeah gift cards so it's it's 57,000 holiday gift cards so that's what we give everybody a 100 bucks we give everybody a 100 bucks plus 572 or whatever so they get a 100 and then the um the MLK sponsorship oh the chamber Galley is in there that's 1500 bucks probably want to take that out um and the Chamber breakfast breakfast so those who go to the chamber breakfast sp00 bucks yeah okay so we're you're thinking that the $100 Christmas bonus is better than the Christmas that's the I'm going to say that's the feedback we get from everybody they like the money the party you about versus the party and now that was significant I think the party cost us 7,500 bucks more expensive no it was more than that well not everyone could come to the Christmas party it was definitely kind of started that back in Co when we couldn't have it I think that's good um so everybody good on that can you explain excuse me would you explain the city commission bu we were just saying it look like the same I think but her question is we all we got the 5% bump too and went up four like 1% that's that's our question yeah it's it looks like some some of the benefits went down so um so somebody might have had like Fitness or something like that somebody may not have it now so like there's probably $80 there that went down um Insurance went down a little bit so it's coupling all that together it's there is 4% in your for it's other stuff going down all right big executive executive is or executive has a couple of of of branches so the first one's public Outreach that's basically the payment to um Lakefront TV MH could you give a breakout of the communication expenses I mean the increase there all right what is that considered a communication expenses it's usually um internet I don't know if we're paying internet can pull it up but let's see so we got this internet and cable for the lakefront TV Verizon okay on so it's the telephone bill um is $324 Verizon um they have a public Outreach data plan for $481 and then Comcast is 2,640 for internet and cable at the lakefront TV studio okay thank you Administration that's city manager right so that that's exstensively about the same any questions in there how many employees do we have it's um it's 2.70 I mean uh Pam gets the executive office manager is split with um Pio public Outreach and the airport she has a portion that we split off but it's okay just the two really three city clerk down to [Music] tick questions on clerk City attorney that's pretty much all contractual you know based on estimate to Stone and Gerkin miscellaneous miscellane um this is where we put in like um the employees can do the vacation Buybacks in there um the payment to The Villages and then the Debt Service um transfer that we have going on for Debt Service so and so the debt service is is um what we can't use DST on right what a vehicle right no this is the mouse remember the yes there's a portion Pap and finance and and finance has a couple divisions accounting it's it hasn't changed too much customer service that's that's down let's do the credit card please there you go there's your big savings yeah what was that 400 like that y good yeah that bill went to nothing um procurement that's down Warehouse down just a tip and those are all your finance department divisions Human Resources you're a little bit up but it looks pretty much the same any questions [Music] there it it has the two divisions with it which is about the same and GIS which is about the same any questions there police has the forfeiture fund um the police itself the education and the impact fees uh so we've kind of pretty much talked about this one agazio that's the increase in police services from the 12.6 to the 14.18 million the Lion Share that $1.5 million increas is all in person does the villages pay police impact feed we do uh yes they do so that should have went up significant though yeah but the police impact Fe is rather small so it's on the next slide right so or it's next sorry it's coming next one sitting on use it on the vehicles radios this is how we're going to buy so using the police impact fees is actually going to the expansion of the force because associated with adding 12 officers is 12 radios 12 light bars 12 gear cameras to all the all I mean not trying to put you in the spot but do you know what we for police impact fees on single family it's it's about 200 bucks it's it's under 200 it's like it's under 200 bucks I want to say Fire's like 250 and I I get it for you it's pretty cheap because we we don't collect fire inbag fee on the The Villages or we do and then we remit it back to them since they run the fire Services did we get I I think I don't think we charged them on fire impact fees let let me double check because I would have been in the I'm wondering if the villages built that many houses this prior year that's how much how much are our police impact fees increased oh it did about that number they weren't sitting on much before that I'll get you an exact number you write that down I did um the other stuff in there is the so then there's the forfeiture money so the opposite side of the house from Impact fees so impact when you move in you pay impact fee forfeit your money what they confiscate it goes towards fighting crime um how much is in that account you know education no forfeiture it was on the other slide 130 go the next slide there you go 130 where's 130 keep going next there you go see current Avail oh current Avail right there there so there's a buck 30 in the forfeiture fund plus an estimated so Chief iOS is going to confiscate about 30 grand worth of stuff this year now we're gonna use actually we should have budgeted more for that with the increase right let get busy and that that grounds out police fire looks similar so you your alliance share increases um Let me let me take a step back too one of the big numbers that you'll see difference in there is the is the Pension funds if you look at those individual growth lines those those continue to I think police the fire is hanging around 29% of salary and the police is 15ish yeah if I remember from that actuary report 14.26 14.26 on police so the city kicks in 14.26 as payroll to cover our required share of the pension fund 42 point is fire 42 on fire 42 on fire um is Big um it doesn't look uncommon to other cities and 15 on police is a little bit low I I would my guess is probably going to see 35ish for fire and closer to 20ish for police um so with police and fire out of the budget that's you know that's about 60% Public Works has a bunch of different stuff so Street Maintenance that remains about the same just a a subtle increase there facilities taking care of all the facilities that's what most of it's insurance though most of that is is the insurance increases because of new buildings and we're insuring grounds admin any questions on public work stuff just a a broad question we we couldn't hire enough guys we we entered into some Contracting with bright bright what is it yeah something you know for mowing grass and Things We Still You Bright View is more of the RightWay issues that we do so Dixie 441 27 Corridor that's Bright View uh Venetian Gardens around City Hall that's internal is that a fair we do have some vacancies filled currently with some contract employees from right because we they're starting to move migrate to the city is that what you're saying few they're filling the vacancies because we have a 50% vacancy rate in ground so we supplement um those vacancies with contract emplo from as part of the contract until we fill those VES gotcha I just was my question was more how much are we relying on you know we were hoping that was going to be a stop Gap or at least I was by it was last year yes sir because we brought that to commission right and we did bring the vacancy rate up down to almost full but then once the summer months come we lose got to have more yeah okay good Community developments Planning and Zoning any questions there so we're paying about the same process all the puds housing and you're you're getting ahead of me no I'm not all right no question the the big change that 35 25 of the 33,000 is sticking back in some demolition money mhm well Library any questions on that Recreation impact fees that well that what I SK W impact fees and so we go uh Recreation has got Recreation and Rec impact fees Rec this is the recreation breakdown so it's up about 30 grand um actually we got this down a little bit we're going to take that 23 and buy it because that 23 we're going to buy that with Surplus monies this year so that that number is only going to be about seven Grand over help us in our F balance number okay are we on we on Recreation right now yes have we looked into pay for the director with the added workload and the oversight you know that's going to be at your all's discretion um I think that's a tough one um I think Travis did receive an increase you know when we went back and reviewed department heads as a result of bike fest I also gave Travis and um Maggie some comp additional comp for the workload they did if you all want to revisit that let me know um I I I think U it's a it's a difficult question uh because of of how adjusting everybody's department head pay kind of bumps into everybody else so I'm going to tell you I think Travis is probably where he needs to be I I didn't hear the question I think I think I know it was the Travis's workload and oversight okay has increased I you know and I obviously Travis Maggie do a great job Travis workload increased he also got an assistant that we pay 80 grand can I question and they got an extra akac on the house yes question to go back to housing Contract Services the here to so you're looking at the 28th there MH just just give me a breakdown please what page are you on I'm on 146 easier to yeah sorry tell us there we go I'm sorry that is the demoltion it's in that line that is the part of the 25 that's there okay sorry y um next in in the in the direct is the aquatics so want you talk about there there's a bit of an increase in Aquatics I think that's chemical related um it's it's related to keeping the pool open longer which is affects tempor labor utilities um chemicals all the expenses went up because now the Aquatic Center is staying open longer so which is a good thing just costs more that's all so remember when come back to the mil yeah Mar got to pay Marino's about the same uh I know I skipped over Marina real quick um the biggest change is is is weaving in the budget the bike fest numbers so we got bike fest we got bike fest balanced you know we're going to spend 468 and we're going to take in 468 roughly based on our experience this year any overage is we're going to go back to the reserve that we created so we got 1.5 million in from a partnership this year is probably 1.5 minus 50 Grand so now you know whenever we're going to go over under we're we'll away from Reserve fund so we w't any of those cash dos that we got from the partnership except for bike fest or unless you all direct as otherwise and you said 1.5 I think you at 150 right I did okay no I wouldn't be a smart okay I was hoping I was hoping I was wrong it was 1.5 Z no it's 250 got 250 so we're down to 200 okay no thank you you know that gives us about 5 years to blow 50 Grand before we have to rethink it hopefully if everything happens just like this year correct which I have a question now um on bike fest how much are we would we be out that's already been spent leading up to bike fest and we get a complete just rain out we got man H so so what's I don't know what the answer to that question is um you know so obviously they're exposing asking what kind of what kind of exposure yeah what kind of risk do we have based on you know the weather that you know we already got fixed expenses we have to pay regards whether we have the event or not I think you have to go back and look and draw on the experience from Co to have that worst experience um and what we saw which makes qu and I'm not evading the question I just think it's an extremely difficult one do I think you're going to lose half a million dollars if we don't have bike fest no do I think you have somewhere between 0 to 100 Grand exposed yes the ex the areas that we that the partnership found success in is obviously a lot of the expenses go down the biggest the biggest out of bike fest is paying for the entertainment and so that's about 200 Grand so if we have to cancel you know it depends when if if it if it's a total wash you know then most of those companies honor the commitment and they come back at another time where they refund the booking fee if we've had a booking fee and we have the big show Friday night say that cost 70 grand and we don't make the money on it that you know that's where all these variances come in I don't think you have a half a million exposed I'd say you got six figures exposed and I also think through the experience that we had this year here trying to buy insurance for that exposure is not paying off because those those Insurance numbers are so big um it all it doesn't you're it's it's worth making the gamble because of the other ways we can mitigate it you have an exposure there okay that's what I that's what I figured you have an exposure there okay so and I I would say if you're going to if you got to beat me down and give you a number I'm going to say it's six figures okay so it's pretty big amble what's the what's the breakout of the um for for the rec excuse me for the bike fest what's the breakout of Contract Services the total please I me can we get it um I think how I can get that I don't think it's in there I think it's probably in the spreadsheet um so I'm pretty sure that's going to be the entertainment the cleaning um I can get you into probably the the security yeah the food it's pretty much the forklifts the tent rentals the stage rental okay yeah it's you go so if you go back to that detail we gave you on our summary that 468 should match pretty close with those breakdowns on like 167,000 buying boot MH okay they got about so Recreation impact fees we haven't proposed SP in any but just remember this number for next Tuesday night there's a $57,000 in recreational impact fees available to spend none of that came from The Villages so that's all kleburg grow is that and that's not in your general fund Reserve cash no okay that's in a separate reserved account that's okay that's what Tuesday I have some recommendations for you on where you spend it can only be used for growth that's why it's perhaps Susan Street is a good spot to put does it have to be does it have to be used within the next year I mean is it any time frame on it it has to be used on an expansion of a recreational programming so if you so Susan Street qualifies can you marry that maybe the parking lot downtown does not [Music] right that wraps out the kind of the details of the general fund so any any questions comments concerns you have the I'll leave you with the revisiting our proposal for the taxes and keeping at the same rate which is the 4.7% or 7.5% increase um on Monday's agenda you will have the famous Dr 420 uh that sets the maximum millage rate I will recommend to you that you set the dr420 at the 3.47 52 you technically you can go above but if you go above that um then you have to advertise on your own if you're going to catch the County bus you've got to set the dr420 so that when the county sends out the trim notices our proposals are in there which avoids us having the expense of doing that um so um we will recommend to you that even if you don't want to have the 3o the current mill rate on there you still put it on the on the dr420 you can go down but you can't go up right so you're saying I'm a little confused on the 7% increase if you keep the current millage rate 3 34752 Mills that is a tax increase of 7.5% okay well is it the I mean the property appra only is limited to 3% valuation increase correct three if Homestead if your home yes is homesteaded you're capped at 3% all commercial property is capped at 10% that's why those numbers aren't coming out so you're just kind of merging in the middle that's why you got seven and a half because because remember so so so and remember on the slide two so that's kind of the trick there I I threw at you too I gave you a number for residential I didn't give you a number for commercial and commercials everything that's not not residential is the rest of that number I can't remember the breakout of our tangible and non-tangible property taxes which are commercial industrial property and all those type of things we have a pretty big number there 205 million 250 million so so of the so I'll throw it to you this way of the $3 billion of taxable value 250 million of it is not cap by 3% growth so that's like that's the expensive stuff so really where you when you do these tax increases it's not seen so much from the homeowner it's seen more by the businesses I got you and I mean nobody likes nobody like go ahead Jack no I was say go ahead m i one question I mean nobody likes talk about tax increase did I read the chart right we were down last year we we took it we took it down 133% or more last and we were net neutral so last year we but their effective tax rate I thought went down your last year we did I last year was I think another creative budget year because we increased pay significantly to get everybody up to 15 bucks an hour and did all those changes and gave right all that Stu I think it was like $2.6 million of pay increases for everybody which is like can you th that chart back up there that one chart that showed what we had your 11 years of history on the uh millage rate I was just trying to impress upon people that we took it down aggressively last year we so last year we did it we we we did we did another spending increase to benefit employees um but we but we increased the fire assessment fee but we reduced taxes enough that we covered the increase in fire assessment fee so no net okay thank you it's all coming back to me now thank you I just I remember I was trying to offset okay so at the current Mill rates for the chart you had we're we're here and then we got two cities in Lake below us and everybody else has a higher rate yes right there yeah unless they unless they all start lowering it which yeah chances of that happening are slim and none right so it still puts us in a very favorable position by keeping the militate I would argue yes is my okay and I'll just close with I just want to point out you know what we did last year and we took it down what uh 50 basis points the milary just as we move into tomorrow with the iff before us are you got and look the non-committal just kind of I'd like to go into that negotiation with a Feeling you guys understand where we're headed and that we can bargain in good faith with uh we're trying to get workload down and keep pay up at 4% with with potentially bringing on more F so okay yes I I feel comfortable sounds good to me if you can sell it it does yep and it doesn't it does it doesn't commit you guys to anything because at the end of the day you got to come back and ratify whatever we tentatively agree to as well and IFA has got to T yeah the union whatever they present tomorrow that's what no so here's where we're at the management side of the table we're going to pose to the union the shorter work hours effective April 1 we bring on three initially we're going to have to ask your permission for that and a 4% pay increase and you have the money and we if if you all do this we have the money they'll say yes or no if they say yes we'll do what we do a tenative agreement and management and the union say okay then the union goes back and they have a ratification vote so all the members of the Union has to pass you know by 50 plus one 50% plus one vote and then if they ratify it it comes to you all if they don't ratify it we're back at the table and then we got a Reta and renegotiate if they do ratify it it comes to you all if you all don't ratify it we're back to the table and we got to start the process again until both of you ratify the agreement but typically we don't want to TA anything that we don't think will get ped you talked about reducing hours I think I heard 2,900 to 2400 whatever it was are they salaried are they was it 2910 we're going from 2704 to 2496 but are they are they hourly or salary hourly okay they're hourly that's I assume they were okay so they're pay they check checking their change okay right their check ain't going to change and they'll work about 300 hours a a year less okay that's an annual number 2710 2704 2704 so yeah 2 okay thank you 20 yeah got it um you know you put the some I don't some ideas that various Commissioners had I I let off with that yes yes you did uh when when are we going to discuss some of those a lot of the ones we we have um I don't know if we can we can kind of hit um we go let's go by commissioner by commissioner on that unless you want to hit where if you want to go with yours um the commissioner you had the lower the Mion rate and the advertising for leberg um I know commissioner Canal's been after trying to get some advertisement money uh for South specifically for South lesburg I you know I think it's been a hard nut to crack uh you know I think if we bring in a marketing firm who does that my guess you know 15 to 25 Grand I don't think that's a hard number but I think that that's a specific and you know the I think the issue there is that's a specific targeted area and I think the commission needs to jointly approve that um if you guys want to throw that in the budget I at this stage I'm gonna tell you we probably can five 25 Grand we might be under that but I think that's something that you all need to jointly agree on just like you know if we're going to do something spe you know when it starts to get into a specific a project that benefits a specific district and you all need to talk about that so that's that's above my pay grade I mean I you know this is the time to pict I'm saying South 27 I mean that that's where the majority of our growth is at right now and there's a major lack of commercial development down there now for years the city had a department that part of their task was economic development of the city and I just feel like from a commercial standpoint we haven't grown very well and I just feel like that's a small amount to pay if we can attract a couple two three businesses to down I I think it's money well spent is that not what we're spent in with lead are they are we spin that with lead um commissioner this is really an argument for to sell off to the other Commissioners um we we spend Economic Development money about 25 Grand it's a dollar ahead so it's about 27,000 we spend with lead so yeah while we don't have an economic development department we do have lead and we County Services and that's how we've generated our Economic Development efforts it's up to you guys to judge whether you think that's fruitful the other side of the equation I also say is look you know we have the constant conversation about growth these numbers are clear where the growth is and where the growth isn't occurring commercial growth goes hand inand with residential growth what you know in you know every every stump speech I've ever given when on panels for economic development in Florida we see our service economy as growth you and if you're in Missouri or the Rust Belt you know it's what comes first the manufacturing job or the people who will be employed to get the manufacturing job and Flor the argument in the service economy that we have is where does the commercial Investments come based on where the rooftops are on so that's that that's a phenomena so I hear you commissioner I've heard you for four years and the growth numbers in South lebur are still not there you still have Arlington Ridge you you have the the the unincorporated growth and there is growth in South leeburg can't deny that but and every PUD we've adopted has a commercial segment so if we want to push the envelope that I think your argument is with the commission there's a tremendous amount of of rooftop units in South leburn I'm not talking about just specifically in the city limits right if you look at all the rooftops down there it's a tremendous amount of homes down there and I don't feel like we do anything to Market ourself for some commercial development for that area I mean there's there's nothing on on 27 down there epic you know cuz we don't we don't reach out to nobody for it specifically we have done that we we have given effort to putting out a pamphlet and to Market our demographics we did that two years ago a year ago with was a b and we didn't get much response but we we so I mean I I appreciate the effort I was just C curious what you're trying to accomplish the two main things I like to see attracted to South lburg 27 is is retail and some quality sitdown restaurants there's nothing down there I mean and I really feel like we have plenty enough rooftops Incorporated and unincorporated areas down there to sustain that if we do would just reach out and and and and and make some of these these companies aware of what's going on and what's down there and you know if we're talking about $20,000 I mean $20,000 okay well if you land one business I mean there's your money back right there just one business I I don't think this is far reaching to has to to you know that that hire somebody to to maybe you know try to market the leeburg a little bit like I said for years the city had a department it was Slash another department but yeah that what had the title of Economic Development I just don't feel like we do much at all to adverti they were focused on job creation um and I'm not trying to be argumentive I think that Al I think it's more demographics driven but I mean I'm not against what you're saying I'm just saying with the rooftops coming I think it'll be here is is coming soon I mean you know good restaurants retail they are looking at demographics population numbers income levels they have all that data I'm not saying I'm against it I'm just saying I think it is growing to a point where I think we're finally I think you're finally gonna be satisfied I think with the we do nothing to like I said to self-promote ourselves and and we're waiting for them to come to us find us instead of us going out and seeking them here's here's what I would suggest as a compromise you know depend on where the commission's at I can guarant to you that between now and August 1st we'll go down 25 Grand so before we go down the first 25 Grand we'll throw in the the the study you're bring you're suggesting bringing someone in to do Market some type of analysis to okay great would that be just for South leberg or just the entire just for South lebur as commissioner Canal has requested I you know I think we don't give enough credit to the corporations that run these restaurants that you would like to have have like they haven't done their homework they they can't be profitable there yet I mean or they would be there I don't you know and if they're not profitable they close like I don't know they even know what's going on because we do no Outreach at all I I think commissioner K when I first got on the commission you'll you'll love this uh one numerous people said to me when am I going to get a Chick-fil-A and a Panera Bread and I just smiled and said you I can't control that you know it's it's demographics well we got Chick-fil-A because the demographics finally caught up and usually when Chick-fil-A hits paner Bread's not far behind but U because they are both looking about the same demographics but um I'm just you I not I'm not drawing a line say or saying I'm against it I'm just saying it is I am trying to say it is demographics driven with all the rooftops look use the residentials example we didn't Market that and it's exploding I me heck people are complaining about it so I think residents a little bit different than the commercial but well I guess I'd also say the the commercial will follow I think it will you just want it sooner I understand I understand what you want if we reach out it would have to expedite it I mean and like I said you're talking about you know 20,000 25,000 you land you land One restaurant or One retail shop you know that there's your there's your tax base back within a year or two I don't know if this is it but do we leverage a lead and ask them to do stuff like that since we're already paying that there more job creation I think I don't know help me out [Music] I've asked lead okay I I I think we need should leave the conversation where it's at the first 25 Grand down we go we'll stick it back in the budget when we review this I'll remind you whether it's in there or not we have reached out so I wouldn't classif I wouldn't categorically say we haven't reached out commissioner we have reached out I have talked to lead lead will tell you what I'm telling you we have sent out pan pamplets the pamphlets to Market South leeburg are pre Villages so this is the really the first year now you got 3,000 Villages houses sitting over there maybe that makes a difference um so I will try to swing it in the budget and ask the rest of commission remember to before you vote on the final budget if it's in there or not it will'll probably be able to get it in there I'm sure when August one comes around we'll find 25 Grand I say cuz the last time but I'm sure your commissioner is going to poke you about taxes so that's a that's quit pro quo game well when we refer to reaching out I mean that was at least three years ago with a pamphlet that you reviewed exactly and I'm not saying there was anything wrong with what we did but it was three years ago I understood it and did we get anything with it three years ago in the last three years did we get anything again I'm not saying I know it's hard it's hard bringing up other side okay I understand what you're saying Jimmy but the other thing too with nothing against what we did staff did an excellent job right but that's not their Forte that's not what they do for a living they did an excellent job with what they did but that's not their background yeah okay this yeah I I just have more I just think uh d restaurants knows where they want to put well I just I I just think I just think it's it's every city should should have some money set aside to Market theirself okay I I I just believe they should any comments any other comments so we have the holiday coming up uh Monday we have our regular meeting next week Tuesday we have the uhal Revenue fund so we'll get into the CIP discussions then Thursday uh we some Enterprise funds and then Thursday y so Enterprise funds Thursday then we're back to the special meeting on the 15th and the regular so we've got a busy month ahead move for gerit ask