##VIDEO ID:ig_uHswGQz8## so welcome to the affordable housing trust meeting for Tuesday September 17th 2024 um it's about 6:35 p.m. and we have a quorum this evening with uh Bartlett Harvey Mark granacher Suma Lander and myself in Houston so um I know that we are missing member Matthew nous this evening um but I don't know about Mr Michaels so we'll go ahead and get started hi everyone I just wanted to say it's Mary alen lions in case you were wondering who joined after emailing and calling um so uh at this point we're going to need to keep moving forward and we look forward to being able to have him at a future time Anna you you froze for a little while there I did okay yep so um you were announcing the members I think last I heard was Mark oh I froze that far back okay so four members um including Bartlett Mark Sue and myself to make the Quorum and that Matthew and Matthew is not going to be join joining us this evening and I have not heard from Mr Michaels regarding a guest speaker um unfortunately we have not heard back um in reference to uh coming to talk about um senior housing um by Rick from L poly company so hopefully he can join us at at a future date so we're going to keep moving forward and so we have item number three which is our action plan strategy an a talking about lrap and so Martin I do not see um any representative from from uh the office so do we you know of any new applicants or anything um I I believe that we will have a new application I don't see um Amy De Michelle um waiting yet um hopefully um she will come a little later okay all right so um we will slide her in if she does join us thank you I did want to mention that I'm I'm just wondering what everyone else thinks about um promotion of the lp program because you know we we do have dollars to be able to use for that and so as an example in the broadcaster um it is highlighted here under the rental assistance program and uh if there are other thoughts that you all have about whether or not we should be avidly promoting this on in other venues um I don't know how much the COA promotes it um I don't know whether or not um this is something we should do so I just wanted to open that up for conversation well I know it's in the broadcaster almost every month um and when Anita Harding and I were doing a EHS program on lctv we would mention it cuz we always mention Outreach depart Outreach kind of um information from EHS um other than that um and then every now and then on Facebook p on EHS Facebook page it will come up um as far as perhaps the town newsletter would be another place to put just a little blurb okay I I can't think of other ways but there must be some because it yeah I mean the the hard times in people's lives haven't diminished necessarily no I wouldn't and not with the cost of rents now either you know I mean the hard time may have sort of lessened but the rent didn't go down and we actually are offering family double the amount of rent money that exactly exactly okay all right so what are you gonna say should I say excuse me I think the town newsletter would be a good place to put in um a a section or a comment about it some kind of a blurb because as you say it's helping families and the broadcaster goes out to seniors it's available around town for any other but else but um you know might not them might not be reaching all the people although I know the Outreach coordinators at EHS if any family or any person any Resident calls in need of some kind of help with rent or any other thing they of course always present that LP is available if it fits their situation or if they qualify okay I would just highlight what Sue said last that it is part of the EHS bucket of um of Aid available for those um that they can help to qualify right Al righty yeah any other comments or just says JP and it'll talk and when you talk you'll just okay um John I'm gonna go ahead and mute you just raise your hand if you want to speak alrighty so yeah the other topic related to um to the L program is I did hear from our town accountant Michelle rennels and she said that um yesterday on September 16th the $90,000 that was approved at town meeting has been transferred from the CPC housing Reserve to the affordable housing trust um so um that is effective retroactively to July 1 so again those dollars are now available um in in the trust fund okay great let's see strategy 2.1 The derky Farmhouse so uh Mr Harvey could you please um would like to review the three documents that um we we sent out to everybody regarding derky or any other topic on this item um the I don't have really great news on that um they there were test pits done they were observed by um the M Associated Board of Health and the town um Health officer um they seem to be okay I do not have results um Ted duet um I thought he had said that he would get some information to us in terms of the number of bedrooms um he has not done that he sent me an email this afternoon saying that um he would have that um in the next two weeks um when I when I talked to him at the time or after no last week um he said that he can't give us an exact number because um you know the more there's kind of a trade-off the more units we put there the the bigger the building footprint is and that means the less space he has to put in a septic system and the bigger the septic system he puts in the less space there is for buildings so [Music] um we'll have to figure out um once we have sort of kind of a ballpark um what type of building we want to do we can obviously put more units in a in a row house or townhouse kind of a situation than we can in single family houses so I think um we're going to have to come up with a what we want to do as a as a plan what kind of housing we want to put there um the I mean I think one of the things that it distributed was the was the the maps of of the property and the the map of the setback um from the conservation land that borders our property um and the the wetlands that's in back of the property so we have um you know we have probably two or two and a half acres that we can use um but we don't really know what we can put there yet so um I I hope to get something from them in the next two weeks and and to have a conversation with him about what's reasonable and we can talk about it our next meeting all right thank you um yes I remember in the we were very eager to to get this done and it's unfortunate that it's been taking longer than we all wanted so Bartlet is there a way to just say if we ask you for 23 25 15 bedrooms what does that look like give him a number is that backwards no I think that's we could do that I mean we could ask for a 10 bedroom or a 15 bedroom and just see what those what those look like and if they're possible and what kind of area we have left for a building I can I'll email him that and see what he says well so the way that we had approached it with him was that he was to tell us what the capacity would be right right my only concern in going and asking about a specific number is then will that change anything thing in other words will will he be thinking oh well now that's what they want as opposed to this is what the capacity is well I think I think that he can give us I mean he he knows what the soil conditions are and you know there there's a per rate number that determines how many square feet he needs per bedroom so if we tell him 10 bedrooms he can pretty much um know the area of the bleaching field that he's going to be doing so we could that would help us with a graphic of just putting that on on the site and you know compared to a 20-bedroom system um you know if if you know it's obvious that that a really large system squeezes the area for a building to you know some ridiculously small size I think just graphically I think it would be fairly simple for him to do I I'd have to talk to him about it okay I think as a graphic it would help all right well so here's my concern okay and I'll just put it out there the more that we keep asking him stuff the more it's going to delay him getting us the basic answer of how many so I would just really caution you in doing that because okay he we hired him we contracted with him to do X and getting to do X so let's let him finish that and then if we have additional questions we need or want to ask him we can do so at that point okay that's my only concern is it it will delay the process Andor he'll say well that's different than you asked me to do and that's going to cost more money okay fair enough okay okay but I do appreciate the comment because we we should know what that number is I me we really want to know what that number is but I mean as I said he's not going to be able to give us an exact number he can give us a range though he can give us a range yeah yeah okay and then I think at that point it's reasonable to ask him you know what's the square footage and you know graphically what would that look like I mean we could figure that out I mean these drawings are to scale so we can construct you know however many square feet we need well that's good I'm glad you can do that um so a second part to derky is um the well and so I know that we've been in touch with the Town Administrator have you heard from him on those resources nope I have not um we know approximately where one well is in back of the barn um I talked to a woman um in the spring um who had spent has relatives who lived in that house and she said that there are actually two Wells and I asked her um if I could talk to her relatives um about the the history of the place and those two Wells and when I she didn't you know I got no answer so I called her again maybe a month ago and um she said that her relatives have chosen not to speak to me they don't want to talk about anything so I mean they're both she said in their 80s or more so I can understand that you know and and I don't know what their feelings are about leaving the leaving that house they lived there for a while and okay so you know would that that's the dead end I know that I mean she said that there's one between the house and the barn and there's one in back of the barn so um okay so Marin um is there any way that you can assist with this ask because my big concern is that but winter is once again going to rear its head and we haven't solved this issue and we're we have a Time clock in which to find the well and get it capped by the previous owner so when I spoke with um Town Administrator dougen he said that he was going to inquire about resources which was um his words a man in a hoe for three hours you know two to three hours to get right to get any excavation done so how can you help with that yeah yeah I'm I'm having to help with the conversation are you asking for help with the conversation with the previous owners uh no with with the convers town Resources with Steve Highway Department I I I had I talked to Steve on the site one quite a while ago and he said that he would be you know willing when when we whenever we wanted to he'd try to find somebody to help us do the excavation so he knows about it he's offered to help um I think I should probably just call him and get him over get him or a guy over there and do some exp exploration Martin do you think that's okay for Marlett to call him directly or um do you need to be involved in that conversation um I don't need to be involved in that conversation as far as I know okay all right all right all right thank you Bartlett for reaching out to Steve then yeah okay can parlot please go through the let the TA know that you're doing this so you don't go through the TA as per the okay code of conduct okay sure if you want help with that I'll I'll be talking to him tomorrow and I can tell him what's up well I mean I could I mean if I copy yeah on on an email is that sufficient yeah okay I'll do that because generally I I find email works pretty well okay great thanks Mark for that suggestion and yeah well while we're on derky I I want to um talk about The Farmhouse for minute I mean that's been sitting there vacant um and I would like to um get the name of I mean i' i' like to talk to Mr Cataldo um who has been developing the Robinson Road property and get his architect and engineer um as just you know somebody a place to start with looking at that house and figuring out what we have to do with it the longer it sits there the more deteriorated it's going to be and the more harder it's going to be to fix I believe that Mark has already attempted to reach out Mark is that correct um I tried to talk to him a few months ago and I never heard anything back so if you want to try again Bartlett feel free okay I will um I mean he he U there was some event I don't know what it was where where he approached me and said that he was willing to help so I've never I haven't follow up on that but I will all right yep just let us know how that goes thank you okay anything else on derky no but I I I will include the uh the barn when if I can ever get anybody over there just to have somebody look at it besides me that would be great okay and um when that happens though I do believe that for entry we need to go through the building department for Keys access that kind of thing yeah that's that's a question and who in the building department would have it is another question because the building inspector is no longer with us well um actually we do now have a facilities director so oh that's right okay so he would have it oh he'd be where I would start okay Perfect all right so we're going to go back I see that Amy uh D Michelle has joined us in reference to strategy 1.1 LP so Amy are you available to update us or provide us with a new applicant am I am so sorry if I held anybody up I I was apparently logged into the wrong meeting um so I do have lrap um applicant 35 um this is a single um 66 year old male living on his own um his only source of income is his social security benefit which is 2015 a month um he is working with our department to apply for subsidized housing and Section 8 voucher programs he's taking advantage of public benefits such as fuel assistance and snap his monthly rent is 440 before utilities are included um including his utilities it's around 675 um to 700 depending on the the heating costs those months um he's sorry Shu my papers here um um preference points he scored a nine thank you um so um members what are your thoughts on this particular application Mr Michaels you're muted my apologies well I was saying on the face of it it sounds reasonable to give him a chance and I would um vote to approve or at least I recommend to approve I would Echo that if that was a motion I'll second it if it wasn't a motion I'll make it it's a motion okay then I'll second it all right so has made a motion and Sue second do we have any discussion seeing none okay so we are ready then to vote to approve this applicant um so um what say you Bartlett I say yes Sue yes Angus yes Mark yes and Anna is a yes so a applicant number 35 is approved thank you very much all righty any other comments or updates Amy all right do we want to ask Amy uh what we discussed about um increasing the publicity sure sure um so Amy um if you don't have any other comments or questions um we had discussed a little bit earlier before you joined us that it seems that we have our resources now um for this fiscal year Michelle Reynolds did confirm that the funding from town meeting has been transferred and I was saying that it's great that it is um that the lrap program is uh promoted in the broadcaster and whether or not folks think that we should be promoting it more and so what are your thoughts on that and maybe even where and how we can promote it um well we have the the newsletter that our it is working at Nancy Glen cross like puts out so all the Department's heads will send her information to put in there we could definitely continue to advertise it and push it there um we do advertise it in our broadcaster um I think that you know we've had a couple folks that have reached out to us for the program um that haven't qualified um which is fine because we can access different resources um that they might be eligible for when they come in and we get their application and we can see where they fall financially so I mean I don't think it can hurt to continue to advertise it and make people aware that we have this option available for the community um as far as advertising it I know that like the the uh Littleton green no I'm sorry Village Green and pwns side are aware that we have the program and they have referred people to us before um I know that there's been some turnover with the property management companies um especially over at Village Green so I can definitely reach out to them and provide some further education on the program so that they can make sure that other tenants that might be um possible um possibly eligible can apply great that would really be helpful thank you so much and likewise I think we'll we'll continue to talk about um ways to to get it um promoted more in the community in general and if you have something that you can put into the town's newsletter that'll be terrific um and um with any type of events that the COA has I'm just thinking about you know the breakfasts and and and other type of activities like that are there any kind of flyers or anything that are put out for folks or you think folks in general who attend those kind of activities already know so so the the people that are attending those activities I we we have our newslet our our broadcaster is always out in the open for people to take a copy which the information is in there but as far as like an individual flyer specific to the lrap program that we don't have out there um like posted anywhere um but we can definitely do that we do have the brochures that were created back when the program began um we would probably need to we would probably want to do a flyer though that that has updated information because all of that's going to reference the previous um lrap approved amount right and especially now that the amount that the um trust is is approving is is more then maybe it will be something that others look at it and say oh that that's really significant that could really help me yeah yep definitely um we would have to change the uh number of available vouchers too because I think before was 18 or 19 18 I think it's right yeah yes 15 yep yeah so anyway just food for thought and if we can be of any help please let us know but um just wanted you to know that we're thinking about that okay sure of course yeah I'll get working on a new flyer thank you so much Amy oh did have a question for me yes I have a comment I I was kind of thinking that people who need these services are probably going to Loaves and Fishes and churches is there any reason we can't advertise in those types of places I can definitely I'm in communication with graay silver at Loaves and Fishes quite frequently um Alicia our Outreach coordinator um she's also in communication with her because we still are doing the food pantry deliveries for folks um that don't have access to reliable transportation so we can definitely share a flyer with her because she has folks over there that are helping people that come in um with accessing different benefits or who to call for certain things so we can definitely share our information with them um that's not a problem great it's a very good idea thank you Angus thank you for raising that yep Al righty um is there anything else Amy that you would like to chat about today I don't believe so all righty well thank you so much for being here as always you're welcome to stay but also welcome to to go thank you very much all righty thank you all right so we're going to continue on with um strategy uh 2.2 Hager Homestead likewise in terms of making sure um information gets promoted out uh there is a link right there for the one one still available affordable unit at heger Homestead and So for anybody who knows of folks who might be interested in that please send it out Mar and any other updates on that one in particular um I haven't heard any updates from from the lottery agent okay I um I know EHS has advertised it and has put out um a program um on Facebook and I I think it may have also been in the broadcaster but I'm maybe it's next month I'm not sure um and then at the COA board meeting on Monday uh which is broadcast live then of course the recording is always available I mentioned it too so great it's trying to get it out there surprised I'm surprised it didn't get picked up on but thank you I'll check with the um Lottery agent but um it is a difficult needle to thread to both be able to qualify for the mortgage and to qualify um for the income yep no I can believe that I can see why I I didn't mean I was surprised that it didn't just automatically happen I can see why it wouldn't but too bad it's a good opportunity but yeah I know it'll just it'll take a little longer than yeah you might have expected I was given a very long and detailed tour of the property which was really lovely and they're considering at least putting the full priced unit on the market which then confuses it more so they're trying very hard to get the the reduced income one to be much more taken care of before they do that um it's an interesting unit it's below grade so that when you look out you're looking at the cement uh support for the ramp that comes into the front door so suggested that they actually look at local uh artists they could paint that and be really graphically appealing and much more attractive so at least when somebody does get there it's exciting um and you are right the thread the needle is a teeny tiny hold needle of who can who can hit both of those targets and we did some brainstorming about how to get the word out and anything that we can all add to it would be awesome they were going to send us some follow-ups of what we can share as well thank you all right so um onward then to strategy 2.4 um to had on road um so Town Council provided a draft of the agreement um with most of the business terms that we trustees had agreed to at the August meeting and then uh Mark and I met with minin and Town Council earlier today and um mark would you like to just provide an update sure um well you can fill in most of the details I think but um we discussed the proposal there were a few revisions um we discussed with um the F the cap on the funding and what we could do and um um keeping uh habitat away away from the CPC which we couldn't legally do but we could put pressure on CPC not to do it not to give them money I think the rest of the agreement we more or less agreed to the terms I don't remember anything that was outside of um you could correct me with if I'm missing anything and but it seemed like we're pretty fairly set we have to go to town meeting potentially to get permission to sell the land to uh habitat if we don't currently have it um and waren is looking into that all right thank you and um so uh Mark was out for a couple of weeks um on vacation and um so I was in communication with Jenny and Jenny Merill who is a town council member and uh just to add to what Mark said the other items that they went in and added in as a late at the latest revision from this afternoon also included um things like the screening and protecting the trees so I know that we just got the version around 4:00 this afternoon but based off of our um mode of operation that we don't send stuff to you less than 48 hours in advance what we'll do is go ahead and send it out to everybody um the one thing that is that has been proposed by Town Council that's a little bit different so we all saw the draft agreement some of the items because they really um pertain more to the grant award rather than to the purchase and sale part of the agreement um are items that Town Council would recommend that we put into a separate agreement so what we would see is one agreement which is the purchase and sale and we would see another um agreement that is related more toward the Grant and that's where littleton's contribution and littleton's involvement with homeowners would be so it' be the same content it would just be split into two different documents and so she wanted to know if the trustees would be okay with that or do you have any questions or concerns about it so that that second one that you're talking about would have the the the the times that are specified for beginning and completing the project I mean there because there's Clauses in there that say you know something that you have to have a permit within 90 days or 18 80 days and you have to finish it within what two years or something so that would be part of the grant maren do you have any more specificity as to how they would break it up um well we were talking about the the clawback agreement where as if if um habitat isn't able to produce the units within two years or an extension then the town would get the property back that should be in the purchase and sales um but things like how the um uh buyers are um selected and embeded um that could be in a separate Grant agreement rather than rolled into the purchase and sales agreement okay so that would that would the grant would also include then all the requirements about um the housing um you know the 10% that we're supposed to maintain in the town that is on that list um so the deed restrictions could be either or both plac either one okay and she did say that the purchase and sale could refer over to the grant agreement so that way they are still tied together any other questions com no I mean if if Town Council thinks that there's some advantage to having two documents that are linked and they cover all the bases that we want I don't see a problem with that um Sue how about you any question no I would agree that if Town Council suggested that that it makes sense okay Inus I agree and principal the attorney knows better than me so there you go all righty and Mark you're good with that as well yes I am great would you be able to follow up with Jenny then and and let her know the discussion of this evening and and to proceed to create the two documents sure okay so then here's a question for everybody we don't meet again until next month um in October and it kind of continues to delay this process is this something that we want to meet again say in two weeks after we get the two documents back from Town Council or do we want to wait until next month or do we want to give Mr rambacher the authority to proceed I guess you up well I was going to ask uh what we stand to gain by the expedited meeting um I'm not sure it's going to change the timeline for the project or anything okay right the only reason Bartlet well the only reason I can think for having an expedit meeting would be if we hear from Mr duet about about The derky Farmhouse and barn you know that project um but that's you know unknown and unpredictable and I don't think it's the basis for scheduling another meeting at this point okay thank you all right well with that said then we will proceed as as we would in our typical meeting schedule then and um as long as we can get all of those responses or excuse me all of the revisions back from town counil um Mark in a timely manner then we can send them out to everybody and at the next meeting then we can approve it and move forward okay all thank you so much appreciate your your lead on that any other comments or questions with regard to to how to unroad seeing none let's go ahead and move on okay so strategy 2.6 um which is uh the land inventory question so during the August 20th meeting um we discussed create creating a proposed budget for the next five years and so that discussion ensued into asking for available town properties that could be targeted for affordable housing so they aide is that once a handful of properties are identified by us further conversations such as with the town assessor Town planner and select board Andor select board could determine whether or not a property is viable for future development so I provided a couple of resources for this conversation um first was a list of town-owned properties that was provided by the Town Administrator and then I also provided a couple of examples of larger size affordable housing projects near us and um they identified in those um documents I think it was the Benfield Farms that identified $700,000 was provided by the town via their CPC so that gives us a sense of what a larger project would would cost um so this list by the way it's not comprehensive I and I know that because there's some properties even around me that aren't listed here Town owned but I thought it would be a good good opportunity for us to discuss what is your thinking again about smaller projects on smaller properties you know one to two to three units or a little bit larger property perhaps it doesn't even have to be that much larger to build more units so you all have had a chance to look at this to think about it and let's have a discussion who would who would like to start this convers well I've I've driven through the Benfield Farms property and it's really quite a nice development um but yeah you know I mean I I'm feeling like right now we have our hands full with the two projects that we're working with and um you know it probably it would be worthwhile to work with the town um to to identify some large Parcels that are potentially developable But I me I I I want to keep focused on the on the on the derky project and I totally agree with you keeping our eye on the derky and the tahan I would however add that these kinds of things will take years I mean by the time we go through any kind of a due diligence process internally bring this to town meeting get it approved and then start to work with developers so all of that will take right at least one to two years so that's one of the reasons why and Bartlett I know that you were out at the August meeting but for the members who were here this was a pretty pointed discussion that said you know if we have to figure out what our finance budget is for the next five years how do we know that without actually identifying the project sizes that we want to work on because the members that were here at the August meeting were not comfortable at all all about putting in sort of General items to say we're going to do two small ones one large one people did not want to do that so that's why we're refocusing down this path uh Bartlett I'm sorry um Angus well thank you uh first I'm I'm surprised that the town has so much property on their hands and um I thank uh whoever did for identifying those that are potential no goals but I must add that this uh this is a uh an aspirational project that we plan sort of like a pipeline when we're done with diry and d and what next and so we have to sequence these so that um we would have something to do and a reason uh for requesting funds from CPC so uh um but these are small little plots and things perhaps we could just um those who know these properties better and identify those that would be suitable for a turnaround like T one so that when this project is over hopefully within next two years we have something on the pipeline to do so I I I think this is an excellent uh utility for us to work on Kim you had a comment or question my comment is that Builders are more Nimble and they're likely to have the same list that they're working off and if we don't make our intentions clear then they can come and make decisions much more quickly than we can and so for us to at least acknowledge them understand them understand their their limitations and eliminate them from our list and become more Nimble ourselves is going to help I think so that then if you want if we want them if if this is something the town wants to build on then it should be known and you can act faster does that make sense yeah [Music] Sue I I at first was thinking that it sort of like Bart was saying it could be put off but I do understand why it it can't be I think we do need to look at the list and and try to identify some that might be uh useful or usable not useful usable and and work from there and let it and like Kim said let it be known that the trust is interested in that property or properties right so letting select board know because technically they the overseers yeah right okay so I I share Bartlett's concern that you know I don't know how we're going to manage dealing with more than two at a time um I think it's just going to be tough I also think um we need to figure out like what The Sweet Spot is for the development of properties like um we know roughly now how you know from the habitat experience how much it's going to cost us to do um develop something that's a duplex you know um where you know they want basically you know $50,000 per unit um with our budget we can't afford to do too many of those so we don't know you know what we could do on a larger scale you know we're doing like you know uh six units or 10 or however many and we don't know what we could build on any of these properties so it seems like there's a lot of unknowns that I don't know how we get answers to and proceed forward on some of these other properties um Without Really spreading ourselves thin well so with the experience on the planning board and maren has far more these things take a really long time I mean look at how long we've been talking even with leoi company to you know to build out their project or or how long it took to build out heger Homestead but you know people are just now moving in this year but that project started back in you know 2019 5 years ago so this is the reason why I bring it up that we need to start focusing in on what next what comes after these two projects to at least you know T them up or what's the baseball term they're in the box they're waiting you know so that's where I'm coming from and so my comment my input to this discussion is that you know I really believe that we need to grow our housing affordable housing while preserving open space so I look at a lot of these properties and I and my first eye went to well which properties are closest to the common which properties are are closest already to what is developed so that we're not off you know out trees and so that to me comes back to anything that's available um in the common area and I don't think there is anything in the common area I could be wrong and then current Town Hall so I firmly believe that current Town Hall should be a discussion point with the select board as to whether or not that's something that can be moved forward again it's going to take years yeah that happens but that enable that would enable us to have a Target to say to thcom to anybody who asks well what are the projects that that the affordable housing trust is working on that could be a big one right that could be a big one and it has no ties as administrator douin said has no ties to leoi company they and all other developers would need to you know weigh in on on their proposed plans for any project there so I would ask that that's something that everybody consider we don't want to destroy any more green space that we don't have to we've got a property right there and as I said I don't believe that there's any other property in or around the common there's I think a little bit of a sliver Marin that's right behind the child care center that I think is part of that Cooper property um I believe the address is 194 Great Road it says 7.16 ACR so again that's really close to town but again there's probably there there are probably either Fields there or or trees there so I think that property is under going under a restriction that property is supposed to have a restriction it okay well so there you go so that one's not even available so that's my thinking well okay and I had I I understand what you're saying I think talking to the select board um repeatedly about the Shad Street Building would be a really good idea I mean we don't have much credibility with the select board because we don't have much of a track record but I think putting it out there that we would be very interested in participating in something or in taking it over and making it into housing um I I mean I think you know just repeating that to the select board over the next five years would actually make sense I'm for that I'm for that idea to at least talk to the select board to I know they haven't or my understanding is they haven't made any kind of decision and see have they really even thought anything and saying that you know we're interested and feel that probably a you know some developer nonprofit developer that develops um affordable housing or senior housing or whatever at least look at it they received um answers to their rfis a few years ago wasn't it so they've got some start there's a start of groups that were interested so for us to be able to say look there were groups interested so now let's US get involved y Mark do you have any comment on this so so for Shad Street um it's one of the goals of the S board to you know kind of come up with a position what we're going forward um this year you're fading out we we can't hear you you said one of the selectboard goals is to what um determine the future of the shadik street complex when um um this this this year is it's a goal to figure out what we're going to do not when we're going to not right not necessarily A you know saying that we're moving out tomorrow but come up with you know are we going to rehab are we going to move out and start working on a timeline um um like a that and a facilities timeline um and I agree with you know the affordable housing should be weighing on that I think that's different than taking that list of you know 20 some odd properties and figuring out which one we think should be developed next right because I think that's a much harder thing to do because there's a lot of different tradeoffs you have to look at you know on a one bedroom or a one acre parcel you maybe be able to put in like a duplex or a Triplex or something and there's a certain cost involved with that versus if we took a 3 Acre parcel maybe we could put in like 15 or 20 units and and I don't know that we have the expertise on this board to determine right now which one we get the biggest bang for our buck on to go through and say you know this property X in town we should ask for affordable housing to have control on to take the next project I just don't know I I think it would be great if we had the expertise to do that I just don't know that we have it or how we get there on that well um um yes I I would agree um one of the thoughts that came from the last meeting was that we have funds that we could presumably use to have experts come in and and and help us to determine that so that could even be a next step but I think before we go and expend any funding on something like that we would want to get some kind of a signal from the select board that they're at least interested in this idea of um affordable housing at shadik street so it's sort of like the the chicken in the egg right um no I consider those as different different projects right one is if we want to to you know we looking at you know the next the next potential property and um and shadik street is not currently available we should you know put out fers to say you know if it becomes available we'd be interested in helping manage that but if it's you know in the meantime maybe we're looking at some other property that we're going to drive forward on and I think um just to say you know the derky um experience should give us a lot more um understanding of what our capabilities and things are because it's a larger parcel than tadan so we can figure out you know the cost of building on you know how many units we can get on a three or I think Bart said there's probably three buildable Acres there so we could get an idea on what a cost per unit is there where we have more land than on than on the tan place so we can get another data point for how much these things are going to cost the affordable housing trust versus um grant money or other other funds available outside of our offers so I think that um both conversations could be had and I think that again we've all shared our different perspectives one perspective is as I heard from uh Bartlett and and Sue about well you know can we put this off but maybe it can't be put off because it does take so much time just to get anything done and then we also heard that um these kinds of projects are aspirational right they're they're really big projects and right now we don't have anything in writing as to what we want to do longer term and you know the bottom line is I see those this is my perspective my view is that we have those two big projects as examples Benfield farm and um Shirley Meadows that were able to create very large um numbers of units which is very helpful to their communities and they did it on a relatively smaller piece of piece of piece of property they need 50 acres they didn't even need 20 acres right so they did it on a much smaller parcel and so why can't we do something like that and if those numbers can be built at shadik Street great they can be built at shadik Street and we don't have to develop someplace that is currently green if Shad Street isn't the right place okay then we do have to take a look at other properties that might be viable for us so I guess my sense is that it would be helpful to find out what what the disposition is going to be is that the right word disposition of um of shadic street before we go spending a whole lot of time and effort on our part in identifying other properties so that's my two cents Angus yes I mean I've heard Shad Street mentioned several times but I think that that's probably not the project for the affordable housing trust it's um an old building it's very complex it's got layers and layers of uh modifications and changes that need to be teased out it probably will cost much more than we expected to if the affordable housing trust were to take up on that type of a project I I think that that's probably a project that um a commercial uh type realtor or professional type uh entity should be getting into um but uh those are my thoughts on Shad street because just because it's been mentioned so many times I think that if we got into that it would be more or less like throwing good money away that's it that's all thank you sue how'd you know I had something to say I saw your hand go up my hand didn't go up you read my face okay I'll admit it um I think we need to find out what the town and like Mark said there the select board is going to have to do some kind of a big study to find out whether the town offices can stay there or just what happens that the town may want to keep the building but at least let it be known that you know if they think they can't keep the building that they need to move out they need to get a new building or whatever that we're interested in at least pursuing what could be done that the there's certainly a lot of examples around where an older building has been taken over I mean act in one of the old the old old high school um was made into affordable housing um there's plenty of examples of older buildings being used or made into or renovated yeah we're not going to pay for it all but at least let it know that we're we're willing to be part of it and don't forget about us select board yes right that's my feeling on it thank you it was Kim that had her hands up oh sorry an no wor go ahead Kim so my question is I did not see your list of properties but I'm wondering is there a simple percentage of them that can be eliminated right off the bat if they're too tiny if they're you know too close to the water they're never going to have sewer what are the ones that you can eliminate right away so that maybe you're only looking at a third of those properties to even give them the time of day to then go further so that it it seems less daunting and much more reasonable for a fiveyear plan on a few not a fiveyear plan on 20 or however many the list had there may be some really easy no thank you well and and from what I understand when people have looked at this P looked at this list at the in the past is that that's what happens is that everybody comes up with a reason why no why not to do something on the property so all right so um mark one final question for you would it be of benefit to the select board to hear from the affordable housing trust at some point before the end of this count calend year um it would probably be beneficial to hear that um towards the end of the year yes um can I also say you know if you're thinking of properties if we're redoing Shaker Lane maybe there's the push to preserve the old part of the Old Shaker Lane to do affordable housing there I don't know if it works on any of the plans or not but maybe it's something to consider H so the old so the sh the existing Shaker Lane school is going to be going through changes and whatever those changes are could result in potential property for affordable housing is what I heard well I don't know if it's a potential or not I know a lot of the plans call for demolition of the school I know there's been talk that park and rec is asking potentially asking to say trying to preserve pieces of it so maybe affordable housing asks similar questions I don't know if any of it's doable or anything like that I just have heard I've heard rumors of these conversations got it yeah from what I know that there's no definite plan yet um they're still looking at um at doing an addition to the building or demolishing it and building it here or building it there but but on the Shaker Lane site um and building is going to end up being substantially bigger than the building that's there now so I don't see how anybody is really going to get um a non-school use out of that property I mean you know I there's nothing final yet they're still talking about proposals right and I as I understand it's not even going to go to town meeting till fall of next year is that correct well there'll be a there'll be a requisition for money for you know further studies or preliminary plans or you know something they'll they'll figure out a way to bleed a dry but there's going to be I believe there's going to be a presentation at this town meeting um just an informational thing but they won't be asking for funding until next Fall's town meeting okay all right so at this point then um I'll craft something to to send formally to the select board to get time on their agenda sometime in the next few months to talk about this subject of affordable housing at any Town owned property including Shad streak including Shaker Lane in the future sound reasonable yep yes be the next step great thank you all for that discussion all right so the August 21st um Workshop um let's see Mark Kim Sue and Bartlett thank you all for your work on that event and for attending um Mark since that Workshop event took place after our last meeting could you provide a quick recap before we um look to the minutes to approve sure um so um Kim albertelli and Dave Carpenter were basic were there um at as panelists basically at answering questions from Seniors on how um how to stay in their homes or downsize or you know what the options were um I think there were roughly 25 attendees um it seemed to be very well received um I know that both Kim and Dave offered follow-ups for people I don't know if anyone's taken up um on either of those but um the it was basically a group discussion and it seemed to go very well so thank you Kim for hosting or participating and yes thank you to everyone who participated a lot of really great questions that it was much more back and forth than just two people standing there yammering all right um so with that uh everybody take a look at the minutes any comments or questions on the minute right could we have a motion to approve Z moved second all right Sue and Mark all right to approve the minutes um let's say you Mr Bartlett yes Angus yes Sue yes Mark yes and Ann is a yes okay thank you you all right so we're going to move into item four of the budget um board business and so real quick I'm going to flip a and b so uh trusty updates um Bartlett any updates no I I mean I'm immersed in in derky and I'll have more to say after I've talked to Ted and um get some answers from him all right Angus any update on anything uh IES on anything I believe I'm doing the uh the flyer for next month I'll need some help with that okay the newsletter yes the newsletter yeah right yes I'm I'm happy to work with you on that okay uh let's see Matthew is not here Mark how about you um no real updates I've been on vacation for half of the past month um and just getting back into it so um looking forward to making progress on the Tod on property so great that would be great all right um Sue um how about you no no new updates I already mentioned that about Hagar that I had advertise that no no nothing new all right and did you want to um talk at all about John being here oh well um yeah I can talk about that I'm the COA rep for um or appointed by the chair of the COA and I am going to be dropping off of that position because I was um elected Secretary of the COA board and that just gives me too much to do um tooo many hats to wear and so in the meantime um I made that announcement at the COA board and uh Marge the chair has asked if there are any Replacements any person interested and John and Maryanne Peach um are our board members and they are interested so they were attending tonight as just observers and it's up to Marge and it's up to them and I will continue to be a member of this or be appointed to the trust until Marge makes a new appointment okay well um whenever that happens we will all be very sad but hope that you will come and visit us often and oh I'll come see comments of all the um hats I have connected with COA board in some ways this is the one that's I feel most passionate and most personal about and and and most interested in but it's also work and I've just got too many other things and I have to I have to give up something yeah yeah I understand all right well thank you for your update um my update is actually that um portable Housing Trust member Kim albertelli has resigned and so the select board will need to appoint a new member and you know know it it is it is just a very sad situation and hopefully we can continue to have further future collaborations with Kim because you are an amazing contributor on and off the field so they say um or as they say and we want to continue to you know to work with you um on behalf of of seniors and and housing affordability and so I think by not being on the board it affords you more flexibility to be able to do that which you want to do to help seniors more more personally so right to do more with do more good exactly yeah and you know just by you being here tonight you know you you points and that's one of the things is wonderful thank you I just won't vote I'll be I'll try to be quiet during voting um so going back to the newsletter which was um item a on the agenda um so we didn't contribute anything for the October newsletter um but we will be contributing something for the November issue and so Angus I will work with you on that for the October issue and one one thing just to remember on that that the submission has to be September or has to be the 15th of the month it doesn't ever give you much time the submission for November newsletter would be October 15 yes exactly yeah it's tight y all right um so then we have our August 20th minutes did everyone have a chance to review those I did and any comments or questions on those no I I think that the minutes reflected the um discussions that we had and um there's still an outstanding item there was a meeting that was had um with the I I believe it was a fincom meeting and we're waiting for updates on that before finalizing I don't know whether that made it in or not thank you you yes so I believe the meeting that you're referencing is the meeting that we had with um CPC as I recall yes and so Marin those are minutes of the joint meeting where we got on a zoom call and then separated out so is that something that you could work with Luc on to try to get those minutes for us yeah I know that Lucy has asked for the CPC minutes um rather than have two people do the same set but um when she returns from vacation I will check with her on that on the status great thank you very much for that reminder Angus we'll keep working on that you're welcome all right so um do I have a motion to approve so moved thank you Angus and Sue and um Bartlett I approve yes okay hus yes Sue yes Mark yes and Anna is a yes so minutes for August 20th are [Music] approved okay so identifying a guest speaker for our next meeting given where we are on our different projects um who do you recommend we try to get in as somebody to talk about advancing anything that we have or one of the ideas new ideas that we have and if not then that's okay but um do we have a list of builders that have opened permits in the last five years or whatever so that you know who vetting without vetting them I mean if they were you know building with a debacle after debacle then perhaps we don't reach out to them but to reach out to someone who's developed some of these projects would be helpful for us to understand more what we should be asking early on right so we had the the SME the subject matter experts coming in in who came in in January and um those are one set of folks we're talking about actual developers I would recommend that we take a look at a short list of nonprofit developers and I know Bartlett you were talking with one um organization in LOL yeah but my contact there has left so I have not contacted his replacement okay well um what's the goal of talking to a builder we have had Builders speak with us I mean there was one that um uh spoke with us but then reneged on their commitment I'm sure um uh Marin you remember who it is um not going to name any names but uh a gentleman who's very active in the community Cooper Farms and whatnot but um he never came through so really what um what's the goal of this and then we can think of a a builder but we have to find someone who um who's committed and who's going to follow through with whatever they promised they would do well I think one of the things as as Kim said one one thing that they can do is just come in and give us a general sense as to what it takes to go through a development um more food for thought I think more than anything else at this stage of the game because we don't have a particular property in mind other than derky um at a little bit larger scale yeah so we could certainly bring somebody in under those opes to say you know we currently have these two properties in play and others to be determined still and see if they would be willing to come in so well I I think that Marin might have an idea she might um know those who have who are in good standing with and not those who will litigate the city um the town so perhaps we have our answer right here well I'd almost suggest that there are a lot of good um workshops between Chapa and um Mass Housing and others um a lot of good um you know inperson and um remote workshops that are going on all the time um just look over those and see um if you know you want to attend those or we want to pick off a few of the presenters um from some of those different um groups so so many different nonprofit developers out there um but most of them are looking in my understanding are looking at projects of at least 50 units um in order to make it worthwhile their commitment for you know the five years it takes from pre-project to the permits yep there you go there's the magic timeline number five years yeah right and each unit gets decidedly less expensive the higher the volume goes right it's so much simpler so no to to some degree correct all right well um if you all have any names that you can think of that you would like me to ask um please let me know like within the next week to give folks enough time okay so then that raises a question of when we're going to meet next so so I'm gonna Circle back for a minute August 21st you had some draft minutes from that Workshop oh did we not approve those unless I wasn't paying attention at that point I thought we approved those but yes did we approve these we did I thought okay I'm good with that that was the intention that's what happened we're good all right so scheduling um for the next meeting um in October yes it's really going to be October um so I'm not available on Tuesday the 15th which would be the third Tuesday of the month so the meeting can proceed if Bartlett would like to chair um without me or we can postpone until Tuesday October 22nd so what are folks thoughts on that Mr Harvey since it would affect you the most what do you think well I think you're doing an admirable job of chairing I'd like to continue with that all right um so can everybody meet on the 22nd 10:22 yep Mark you're good Angus you're good for 102 okay yeah all righty well let's go ahead and um schedule our next affordable housing trust meeting then for Tuesday October 22nd 6:30 p.m. okay great any other comments or questions for today cool well then I guess we can ask for an adjournment so moved second second all right thank you very much all in favor say I I bye all right have a good evening everyone thank you thank you thank you