##VIDEO ID:iZP-nD7yAOE## work better when they turn details so we're going to start with a brief executive session and uh get back to open meeting at around 6:30 so um move that the select board uh vote to enter into an executive session pursuant to Mass General Law chapter 30A section 21 A2 to conduct strategy and preparation for negotiations with non-union Personnel or to conduct collective bargaining sessions or contract negotiations with non-un Union Personnel the fire Union the select board will adjourn to Executive session and we'll reconvene an open session after the executive session I he second move by Matthew second M Karen roll call vote G Gary's and I Karen Karen I Matthew's I uh Mark's and I uh we uh be in executive session and back about 6:30 thank you wait if you're kidding can we do that anyway is police so police is this weekend okay I can't do one about the other then I look bad I just I literally was out of town open house fire was sat out was it police is this it's Peak activity to hours are I got two new puppies in the house too do you really a lot of executive session going over I was like going to jokingly ask you if somebody had chewed on your phone um thing they seriously that was them yeah oh look at those little FL oh they're adorable Mark we're we're ready to go okay uh we'll begin with the Pledge of Allegiance love that they from the same lit uh three weeks apart they move flag i al to the flag United States of America and to the rep for stands Nation God indivisible with liy and justice for all state um so I'd like to have a moment of silence for two Veterans of Littleton that passed away in the past couple weeks Hank goulette and Pete wtz thank you thank you so uh we'll begin with uh reading of the mail uh Department board updates a request from the Historical Society in park and rec on reclassifying jobs we'll do uh public input at 7:00 we'll have a public hearing on a liquor license for Energy North Incorporated uh 7:15 a discussion on ngog Hill Orchard update uh then we'll do a special town meeting um administrator updates and at 8:00 we'll do minutes and be done at 8:05 so we'll start with the mail thank you Mr chairman I'll try and uh I'll try and hurry up beat that record um current vacancies on the town board we've got uh number of different uh committees we would uh love we got agricultural clean leags conservation cultural Economic Development historical master plan permanent Municipal Building committee neog Hill Orchard taxation Aid committee Transportation advisory Council zoning board of appeals and the finance committee can I interrupt we we don't have the neog anymore cor we haven't officially we haven't we haven't officially dissolved it okay but I believe we can talk about that tonight I believe it's run its course um please anybody that would like notifications uh sign up to receive them www. Littleton ma.org ssubscribe stay in tune with Community impacts Public Safety activity Transportation issues town meeting changes public health concerns town events stay informed we also have uh a gift acceptance form um uh the name of the offering uh David and Jean sill for $11,000 to the new building gift fund of EHS COA thank you very much for generosity reti a second one and we have uh from Lisa Carol $150 a donation to the youth scholarship fund uh for Parks and Recreation Community Education thank you very much for your generosity and finally we have uh Steven Leone uh S&R Carpet and Floors for $500 as a donation to the youth scholarship fund Parx and Recreation conservation education thank you very much for your uh uh for your generosity that's it Mr chairman uh department and board updates to take this one um so this is the um so uh Historical Society this is uh a request to approve of an indentification agreement uh for um uh for basically work that's being done at the uh hotton building for the rehabilitation of the uh the windows there you did something similar a few years back I believe it was a boiler so basically by doing this it allows us to um uh basically recognize that we have a long-term lease in in place with the historical society and lets them do projects uh on on behalf of the town and to maintain the building so uh utilizing CPC funds um well yeah that's that's yeah either either way still they need to have this in place and cpc's tied to it yes so any questions okay move that the select board vote to approve the indemnification agreement for the window painting and Rehabilitation project for the hotton memorial building second move by Matthew second by Karen all those in favor I uh Park and wreck all right good evening everyone uh so this is a a pretty quick just um kind of tying up of some um uh employment stuff so uh currently our club program operates from September to June um so that staff technically could work uh 10 months if they stayed on for the entire time um currently they are listed on scheduled C which is listed as seasonal or temporary um which is also listed in the town bylaw that seasonal would be 5 months or less so just to make sure that we're following all the processes correctly um those two positions that we hire for the club we would like to move those to schedule B1 which is listed as other um so it would be uh moved to that uh and be paid off of that grid both of those positions does it change the salary of the positions were um just a little bit so we'll be working with um HR because we need to update all of the uh grid anyway for the Springtown meeting um so we'll look at that I think it's like the one position would go up 2 cents and the other position I think is like 20 cents so it's not it's negligible are there any benefit eligible positions yeah that's a great question so um the position that would be the schedule B1 grade 2 um there is potential for that person to work over the 20 hours per week so they would possibly be benefits eligible um if that is the case uh obviously that comes through the park and wre revolving funds um and the program fees would pay for that okay the park and rec fees the park and rec funds currently pay benefits we pay benefits out of those we do move that the select board vote to approve the request from Parks Recreation and Community Education to update the class and compensation grid by moving Club after school position from the seasonal temporary Schedule C to schedule B1 second by Matthew second by Karen all those in favor thank you thank you appreciate it uh we'll start with members updates and then do public input after that so do you want to start Gary um I wanted to recognize the fire open house uh on Saturday I was out of town but I I know you guys will speak to it I I heard it was a great event so um police open house is this Saturday correct so please attend if you can um I voted today so don't forget you can vote early they're open every day yes week so um no lines just walk in and have some cookies and you got cookies meatball subs and soda they have everything yeah it's great um and I thank you lctv for the hats this is the first piece of Swag I've ever gotten for uh being on the SB um and we I know we're going to talk a little bit about something that's not on the agenda I guess we could do it through um members updates the we had a I I would say a horrible accident on Hartwell at the intersection of Lawrence and Harwell um there were no catastrophic injuries to that um matter but we we have seen obviously on uh social media and um through you know we've received emails through different um people that are concerned about the new intersection um I did drive down Hartwell today and I I parked and spoke with the uh Corner residents that had had all the property damage to their to their yard um and there were some other people there that came by that I spoke with as well that W some witnesses and things but I I was really just there to kind of get my arms around what we were looking at what and then and um from there I I actually talked to them for a bit got some good information then I went to the police station to get some details there and shared some of that with the board um so I I just wanted to make sure that um I know Mark you were going to speak to it a little bit as well that these are there's two separate things at play here um the the accident itself um appears to be 100% fault of driving and it's very clear in the police report that that that is the case um but I do want to recognize that intersection uh though the all the residents down there that I spoke with today said that it absolutely is slowing traffic down around that corner and it it's the same effect um that happened on Foster Street on the sharp corner um when it went in I was and my wife was very upset like why this is this is brutal you know but it does do what it's supposed to do the state's requiring these new intersections to be like this um they they want you to come almost to a complete stop before you can make a turn that's they don't want these rounded Corners they're dangerous um seem be dangerous however um I you know talking to Mark and some of the other board members I I do want to recognize that the there is some difficulty there probably with larger Vehicles making that turn to include emergency vehicles and you'd said buses so you live right over there so you would know more than anyone so um those are things I think we can look into um but I do I just wanted to make sure that the public knew because there was some inaccuracies being spread around um that the intersection caused this inter this this accident and every finding in here is is saying that the cause of this accident was had nothing to do with that intersection no matter what that intersection looked like uh driving over three time almost three times the speed limit um is there was no way anyone was going to make a corner there no matter what it looked like like so if they were truly taking a corner I'm not sure um I I do also want to say that there was some damage to a historic um Granite marker Granite marker they kind of was old etched Heartwell have this way this way and things so uh we are looking I did speak with the historic commission um so they're going to look into what they they have to do to get that that replaced the owners were concerned they didn't know if that was something they had to file insurance with or or whether we do or so said I'd get some answers for them um but thank God nobody was seriously injured and um it's a lot of property damage obviously down there that will be repaired and um there will be signage I believe uh Jim you had mentioned that yes uh Granite the granite will will be uh repaired uh by this week and a sign will be installed this week a stop sign for yeah exactly right that's all I have that's a lot but that that that was a big thing I I saw because I picked it up over the weekend and I know a lot of people are concerned about it so um I wanted to thank um the mevan corporation um for inviting us to their celebration on the 8th um it was an education and really impressive uh what they're doing over there on Foster Street with proton therapy um they were celebrating what was it their 10th 20th anniversary and their 10,000th patient so um thank you to them um I wanted to wish happy Dali to all our residents who are celebrating and I was sorry I could not attend the joint um celebration that was held on Sunday um I had um other commitments but office hours I held on October 11th I believe it seems like a lifetime ago but they uh were much appreciated for the folks who came by Clean Lakes committee met on October 17th they're working really hard on a 5-year plan budget plan for us um um they will be coming they're planning to come in um after the New Year to um to present what full funding looks like to them which um will be helpful for us going forward and I wanted to encourage everybody to um look at the Town newsletter if they get a chance we just um published a special edition that goes through the special town meeting talks about um not just what special town meeting is and the clickers and that kind of thing but also what we're going to be voting on and it gives uh residents a jumping off point for them to um a framework for them to understand uh what they're reading in the town report so I hope folks will um take advantage of that and that's all I've got um I don't have much I just add a couple questions for Ryan actually um one was um whether the work that on The Barn at the orchard with from classic construction was complete it's not complete yet uh they just they pulled a per last week and they hope to start construction um next week okay and then um we had a number of people at the orchard working group asking for the redacted rfps to be posted to the website they were uh it was updated today after your email was received and so that's up in the packet and been added to the packet yeah and just for everybody listening we put those in the packet as well so y thank you that's all I got um certainly um there's been a lot of emails texts phone calls about Harwell and I'm glad that it's being addressed and I feel as though um I trust the Town Administrator the the chief of police our har director um I appreciate everybody acting swiftly obviously we're all we're all grateful that they were um it didn't end differently um so but it is something that is being addressed and looked at um to Gary's point the state is kind of pulling strings here as far as some unsafe intersections I don't know what to qualify that is unsafe but um also wanted to thank um The Mighty Oak fund they have an annual um charity event um The Mighty Oak Fund Golf Tournament at Stow acres and it was held um the 5ifth I believe of October and um Bobby crunch is the the the the resident behind the Mighty Oak fund and he and the Mighty Oak have um given out a number of scholarships to our um our students graduating students uh Littleton residents whether they go to L high school or to a different school um and they do a heck of a lot with parks and R Community Education and and other there's other areas that um I know Mighty O funds and and very humble probably going to get mad at me for saying anything but um it's just you see the donations that we get at the beginning of every meeting the town's it's a great community and and it's very much appreciated that you know folks just give and um and it's in support of the rest of the community and may or may not be some something that benefits them but it benefits the community which benefits them so um thank you to everybody for your donations and especially at this moment for by the oak fund um so uh I was also at the mevan open house uh it was a great event I was at the fire station open house uh which uh great to see everyone out there I'm going to the police one this Saturday so we'll see which ones had better food um I actually did attend the Dali uh Festival uh it was actually really crowded it was very well attended on Sunday when I was there a lot of great food and music and I wanted to thank uh Littleton electric they hosted an EV Forum last week um with uh some great information and what's coming with the the state of the the rates for the Chargers and things going forward uh we um some I had an affordable housing trust meeting with um a select board member from Medway who they did a big housing project down there and it sounds very promising on things what we could do if we think bigger so um that was great um I will be holding office hours this Friday after this Friday office hours will go to every other Friday rather than every Friday so stay tuned for that and check the calendar um and I also wanted to talk a little bit about the Heartwell um living on there I know what people are um I get complaints from my neighbors all the time about it um and I think um I think it would be good to get everyone out there together to see what the residents are complaining about get fire police Highway out there cuz generally I think the intersection is correct but there are some things that just feel a little off um I know people say it's really narrow um but if you go out the tape measure and measure it it's the same width as the other roads as I've made Neighbors do um but there are things that feel a little off so we should try and organize something to get out there you know to make sure that um Vehicles can make the right a lot of pedestrian traffic there too there is a lot of pedestrian traffic there and it is a dangerous corner so so um and now that it's been paved people are just going faster well but the corner makes them slow down which is good right but being on a PVE Road it does feel like you're on a racetrack I'm just saying that would happen r Mark I I had a question did you get I have something on my calendar about climate action do we have something there's a climate action Summit uh in this room tomorrow at 7 yep so um I'll open it up to public input only going to jump on what Gary asked about uh Rob Houston 55 Jennifer Street also a member of the sustainability committee so hopefully the select board will join us tomorrow night at 700 p.m. in this room and also all members of Littleton Public um I'm just going to read what's actually on the website since maybe not everybody's read that the sustainability committee invites you to a climate action plan Forum on Tuesday October 22nd tomorrow night at 7:00 p.m. in this room cookies will be available um Tom Birmingham a former energy executive and sustainability leader will present a framework for creating a plan for climate mitigation and adaption in key areas such as energy conservation and public health Jim Snyder Grant a select board member from Acton who played a key role in Acton's 2022 climate action plan will also join us to share his experience and perspective this informative session will cover the key elements of creating a comprehensive plan that addresses climate change through mitigation and resilience strategies learn how you can contribute to the efforts to enhance local sustainability protect natural resources and engage with Community initiatives don't miss this opportunity to help shape our Town's future by building a stronger more adaptable community that can thrive in a changing world so Littleton does not have a climate action plan currently um we need one I think it would be very beneficial to help guide our Town's effort effs moving forward applying for Grants you know it it's the framework like any other plans that we have in this town and the fact we don't have one we need one so that's it please join us tomorrow night thank you hi I'm Margaret Genesis I live on Harwell AV in the house that creates the curve we've been there since 1988 this is the fifth time that accident that happened on Saturday has happened but because there weren't any curbstones there wasn't as much damage I have two concerns that lead to a third the first one is the increasing speed in traffic on the road with a blind Corner turn it really needs some kind of Arrow Signs as people approach so that you know I just went bu a road in in in air today and they have these big yellow black arrows signs as people get close so you know that there's a dangerous curve um there is a blind driveway side sign that we have them put up years ago but it was there um but you can't see it easily but there needs to be something to slow people down going into the curve on that side um and then the other thing is I don't mind the idea of you know like a t- road coming in the leftand turn is fine but when you're on Lawrence trying to make the right hand turn yes it's tight but if you're a school bus you cannot make that turn without going into the oncoming Lane 75 ft from a blind Corner a blind turn the snow plows aren't going to be able to make the corner um there's a couple other things that won't but the school bus with our kids on it is a real problem it's just it's too tight a curve it's too tight a turn and I understand it's slowing down and yes I mean a stop sign does that too and I would much rather see a stop sign much much rather see a stop sign with a slightly wider turn because then people can make the corners safely it doesn't slow people down who aren't turning they go flying down and the whole idea about well let's lower the speed limit is a great idea but it's not an effective deterrent for people to slow down you know um and that that was my real concern is what's going to happen when some school bus load of kids can't make the tight turn CU school buses are really long and and is in the opposite lane to make the turn and somebody comes flying around so that that was I went to the police station and they said to come here tonight so so that's my really the corner doesn't work well and you can't get into my driveway on one site CU you just can't do do this but that's my problem not the town's problem you know so so that was thank you for finally repaving that road um and I think that's it are there any questions cuz we sit in our front porch and we see that traffic 24/7 so and I heard I heard squealing Wheels way before he hit you you know the um the sidewalk and all that stuff the um I guess that's the biggest question with the epw um keeping the the sharp corner to slow you down but what is the what is the rule set for wide just W even if it was widen two feet I don't know it just has to be a more gentle curve and if you really stand on the street on the house across the street from us the curb does this and then it goes out when it hits the corner so it it's really exaggerated and isn't in line with the curb the rest of the way around um trust yeah I saw that today too yeah yeah so it's just I don't know but yeah and it didn't you're right it didn't cause the the accident and I don't I'm not up in arms about missing the flowers in the middle but it really needs a stock sign that would take care of everybody's problem except when you come around the corner and don't take the turn thank you thank you would be a three-way stop right would have to be everyone Dave catch and assistant general manager of the Light and Water Department uh first of all Mark thanks for mentioning that EV Forum uh con did a great job running that he did he has a lot of good takeaways to to bring back for the the next go round there um I want to start by saying thank you to the board and George Sanders for last meeting recognizing the mutual Aid efforts by our employees and Nick and Nick Lawler and I thought it'd be a good idea to expand on that a little more I do have some pictures if you guys are interested in loading those up if not that's okay too we'll post those uh to Facebook later on but um I just wanted say thank you to everyone who responded for Hurricane Helen and Milton um between our departments we sent Crews to Georgia South Carolina and Florida uh Rob hunt RJ Rooks Gavin du Hamill Tom gelot Pat ly myself and Nick Lawler all went um to different states different areas at at different times um myself and RJ Rooks and uh Tom jalot just got home last Monday night from Orlando so that that was a um very very worthwhile trip for everyone so I just want to say say thank you to all the employees who volunteer their time to go also thank you to all of our employees who uh keep the office afloat when when we all go and they they cover our duties and make sure things run smoothly for everyone in town as we go away but um really it's a it's a good takeaway that these events happen we we we send Crews down there and and our crews pick up on a lot of new things different ways of constructing things and just seeing how other other other utilities operate um it it brings a lot back to our our department and then it also allows us to build rapport with different regions and different states in case anything were were were ever to happen to the Littleton community that um we we build that Network and and anyone would be willing to help us during that time so um my between myself and Nick Lawler we we do a lot of the the coordinating actually for the New England region so any any storm in New England mostly flows through us so if anyone needs a couple Crews on a Saturday night uh Nick and I are on the phone um doing that just to just to help the cause and then Nick Lawler also does the the national level for the New England region so he's on the phone constantly every day taking pre-storm meetings and and you know figuring out what resources are needed where so I just wanted to recognize our department for that and say thank you guys thank you thank you thank you can we get maybe we can get some of the pictures in the newsletter and BR blur good idea I to reach out to the commissioner they do want a recognition yeah he's not on the commission but you can talk to the commission I guess yeah even if it's a joint recognition BRS 25 Juno just a couple things I know you probably address it later on when you consider the mapc contract looking at over the various tasks I think it was signed and the dates have changed I know you're considering you know going to a lease it does strike me though that some of the dates one of them I saw like the work would be completed by the end of March that struck me given the the Maytown meeting is somewhat premature based on how I saw things play out on social media before the Maytown vote I would hate to see great efforts be sidetracked by someone I I know there's a lot of Outreach so I just ask for you to take a look at the the date activities of the various tasks and make sure that you're you know really thinking those dates are going to work and coincide with a successful town meeting whatever that outcome might be also with regard to Heartwell Mark I saw you at the bpac meeting the other night we heard Gary lroy from the Transportation advisory Council you know he he sounds like a a a dedicated servant to the town but he also sounds like you know hey it's just me and there's not much more there and when I hear you know incidents like cartwell you folks almost all of you were personally helpful with regard to taking care of a different intersection with somewhat similar concerns uh several months ago I find myself just wondering how how that organization I know I don't understand it but if I knew a pathway with regard to how that organization could H could hear such concerns present them to the proper organizations whatever they may be to get to desired outcomes after they're informed people considered you know Solutions maybe we could get some attendance of participation in the the transportation advisory Council but I kind of need to see a pathway cuz right now I know what I experienced through working with all of you and it worked out but it was kind of ragtag it wasn't in an organized fashion and I hear things like I just heard tonight it it seems to me like there needs to be a bit more organization or some pathway identified so that residents know how to proceed and get things resolved on a timely basis thank you Mar if I could add um maybe it's something we at a point when any repaving project if it's just a simple repaving project and they were simple but um there's really no involvement but if there's going to be a change in the actual structure of the roadway maybe that should be a time when um DPW comes in front of us at least to get it out there saying there is going to be a change of configuration and they can lay it out actually with con it will show it because con you know that way people aren't surprised we're not surprised um and we can get ahead of some of these things some of the concerns maybe they should be part of in my opinion part of um dpw's contribution into the newsletter as well that's changes to any type of Road does anyone else want to speak I have one other thing that I forgot I went to the MMA legislative breakfast on Friday um um uh there were several bills that were working their way through um the Chapter 70 and 90 funding things um but the other uh thing that I um I talked to the Acton select board members when I was there and Acton is in the very preliminary stages of design in a bike trail that goes along 119 from 27 to the ngog mall um and I said that was very interesting and we should talk about potentially partnering to see if we could extend it all the way to the Littleton common so um I'm going to be talking to them and hooking them up with beack to see what they can do they consider that um they're considering you know the 27 to 119 they have a lot of they have a lot of apartment buildings along there and they're considering this um large neighborhood that's underserved for um bike access basically they've had um um several pedestrian accidents in that area recently and they're looking for Solutions so we're in at Harris Street yeah yeah um do you have updates on any of you want to discuss any of the other um well we have the 550 King King Street uh development uh that uh would like to have have that discussion um had a talk with the owner uh as as uh as late as today uh to talk about next steps and going forward and how we can collaborate and and and communicate uh in in doing that um so I think um through this through your suggestion Mr chairman that we you know would would get two members on the on the select board two members on the planning board um Ryan myself minin uh the planning team and then uh bring in the owners of 550 development uh to give us updates even though most recently there was um our $4 million request for Mass Works was was denied but that that does shouldn't that although that's not a good thing but it shouldn't send out alarms it's not going to stop the project because there there's been a little delay by the time the next funding realm comes up they would have spent all the money that they would have spent the money that they have by having that other money it just would have sat there they're using it for somewhere else so I can understand uh the state's um um method and uh so the funding round starts up in January so we can we'll reapply again uh for the infrastructure but getting back to the point at hand I think it would um if it's okay with you you want to yourself and someone else and I'll coordinate with the planning board to uh to get another individual on uh to get the individuals from the planning board on and we'll coordinate a time to meet to get an update so you're interested in doing I have as well so pick Karen and if she can't make it we'll check we fill in yeah just going a little institutional knowledge too being there for the whole duration yeah so however when it's schedule we'll figure out okay fair enough and I'll uh I'll I'll I'll update you so it's but there is there's lot there's a lot of enthusiasm from the from the developer with with moving forward and breaking ground and a pretty it um ex I the conversations that we have had uh with the de with the owner 550 King Street uh he you know there was there was a clear message that we you know us being we're concerned we're real concerned and um so there has been what discussions today uh a very a very aggressive construction schedule with um starting with doing things in a more aggressive manner doing more uh upfront and uh just having a clear display that there's a complete commitment to the to the town what was originally expressed but thank you and on sherlan there's a meeting Wednesday at 7 meeting at 7 with uh school committee uh finance committee um and um and of course the Shaker Lan School building committee so continuing to look to uh uh get public input as we refine the presentation which is article one on the October 29th special town meeting okay and 36 King Street renovation I mean there's a little facelift that happened there I noticed on the way by roof and the you finished painting outside the roof is complete um they're continuing to make progress inside the building uh we're meeting on a weekly basis um with the OPM uh the designer and the construction team so um continuing to move that so but you know the progress you've seen outside and trying to do the same on the inside so that's a spring moving date March April time frame yeah Ryan uh is the stakeholder tour for um Shaker Lane still on tomorrow it is still on for tomorrow yes I think 11 o' um as well so um 7 11 and 6 11 and 6 thank you thank you thank you okay moving moving on uh the public hearing this public hearing for Energy North um so other Representatives here do we have to read something to open the hearings um let's see um that was not I think if this is officially posted in the sun um so we can use that as a template is it in the packet it's in the packet yeah yeah hold on I have it here somewhere so there you go P it page 30 thanks Litton select board will conduct a public hearing oh wait is that it yep yeah we'll conduct a public hearing on Monday October 21st 2024 at 700 p.m. in the STS room Ruben hor Library 35 shat Street Littleton Mass to act on the request for approval of a wine and malt off premise license under Mass general chapter 138 section 15 submitted by Zeno Corgan manager Energy North Corporation 25 King Street Littleton Mass days and hours of operation Monday through Saturday open 24 hours alcohol sales 8:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. Sunday open 24 hours alcohol sales 10:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. copy of the application may be seen at the select board Town administrator's office room 306 at 37 shatex Street Littleton Mass comments thereon may be submitted in writing to selectboard Littleton ma.org or to the select board Town administrator's office 37 shat Street Littleton Mass 01460 by noon on Wednesday October 16th 2024 or in person at the hearing signed by Litton select board Mark Rucker chair okay thank you my name's Jeff hanning um address 329 Post Road Wells Main 0490 04090 I do have a a check that I need to drop off for the ad as well well I'm not sure take a copy of green cards or not for the so looking for the for the town's approval for a license to sell uh beer beer and wine at our location on on King Street um looking to obviously meet the customers needs um and grow our business as well I did bring a footprint of the store if you need a copy of it we don't have one we one there's one in the pack so our intent would be currently we have nine doors and our walk-in beverage set so we'd re uh reduce the beverage set by to Five Doors and add four doors of beer long term we'd like to turn the beer cave into a or for next year's project with the approval we would want to transition the walk-in freezer to a to a small beer cave twodo beer cave and then you walk in and cameras as well um sounds cool projected sales left um not sure if you need it but it would be 328,000 uh in additional revenue for the location we do operate a Dunkin Donuts and a Sals uh franchises on site as well so th this has nine doors plus three for the beer cave correct so there's 12 doors now or there's nine doors now there's 12 there for the freezer which would convert to a cooler and then nine in the walkin got it today the nine in the walk-in is all uh non-alcoholic revenues I I guess if have the the chief looked at this think choose both comment yeah they're in there Nei of them had any issues with it um why did a your ask well on on your picture the beer cave seems like it's farther from the cashiers than the rest of the coolers is that correct or am iing at the end of the cooler runs it runs the nine doors of coolers and then the is there a reason you pick the ones farther from the cashiers rather than closer to the cashier it seems like it would be easier to keep an eye on the size of the the size of the the box as well as uh the frozen food section is the lowest performing section in the store so that's kind of what if you look at some of the other facilities that we have in town like common convenience the beer cool was all the way in the back just because that was the refrigeration similar situation we would be implementing door locks on them for off hours as well I the other question is I know we're currently you're closed uh midnight to 5:00 a.m. is that still is that going to continue uh not long term okay no we would be looking to reopen in 24 hours a day we did have a as you know probably an armed robbery at the location so taking precautionary measures um and you just said those clothes will be locked after 11:00 p.m. all the beer doors would be locked for the non-selling hours Yeah you mentioned you mentioned cameras when the bear cave comes in but there's also going to be you already have cameras in the store so I would imagine you're going to make sure that they're directed so someone's not standing behind the chip aisle and able to correct yeah beer cave pardon and right inside the beer cave yeah yeah they do have uh I did talk to facilities too would cuz and requested door Chim so every time a beer door open it would chime CL is this is this the do we have one remaining malt license to give away I think there's more than that when we first applied we were told there was two yeah okay yeah I have that that's I think that's in the application find that out yeah um I've received complaints from residents about the amount of trash that's generated at um at hafner's um particularly through the car wash and the and the vacuum um and that that trash is not um contained properly for the for the amount of business that you do um one hates to think about people you know um creating malt and uh malt beverage um trash right there in the parking lot but you know I guess I'm a little concerned that if you know do you have any plans to get on top of that um you're right next to a Waterway you're across from the high school um and it's it's a concern of mine in terms of understanding um how you know your commitment to um seeing things through um in terms of unfort none of those have actually escalated to myself to address but we certainly have enough staff on hand with with the car wash attendance as well as store people to address the parking lot issue okay it seems like it needs more than than people it seems like it needs more trash cans and more emptying of trash cans we can certainly follow through with that I know if I may Matthew's question so this is um a list thing the package St um uh the wine and malt so that goes down um if if the board proceeds forward tonight there there'll be three issued and there'll be two left okay thank you um I know we it's not within distance of the requirement it's far enough from the school but there's the group home there does that is that we check up with abcc that's not an issue okay thank you um May I just um just to expand of what Vice chair Morrison had had expressed the our health director went down there and there were no build there were no barrels there and he I don't know who he spoke to but he made it perfectly clear if he has to go back down this $500 fines going so if it didn't escalate to you you know clearly that's did I did not actually uh my name is Charlie I'm the district manager for that site right there so we have implemented a few changes um in the past few month uh some of which we've increased the Staffing um on the sea store side and uh we've been paying attention to uh the outside conditions including trash as well Charlie this is just last week that there isn't any barrels correct so I I'm not going to argue that if if Francis said that then I I trust he's he's pretty qualified but being a patron um there's a barrel right at the bottom of the ramp there's barrels at the gas pumps there's barrels over at the vacuums I didn't speak to the barrels because I don't know off the top of my head it's enough there are like like you mentioned right at the the bottom of the of the ramp as well as there's at the sides as well and behind the building uh can certainly add a few more uh sounds like that's the added to or they need to be emptied more often one or the other yeah yes but we'll be more dilligent on picking up the trash as well that gets littered that would be appreciated save 500 bucks or invest the $500 in a couple barrels and both avoid the the fine it's an everyday vow only as good as your employees right does anyone have anything else we taking public comment yeah we have to okay okay uh good yeah anyone from the public wish to thank you I have to stick to two minutes like regular public thank you it's up to the chair many of we can share I have just um my name Isa olivary I live on one Kimble Street I've been a resident of Littleton for 11 years now thank you for allowing me this opportunity to share my concerns about this off-site liquor license at 25 King Street the fact some of which you've already discussed already is this is on a main road across the street from the high school the future parks and wreck building and a group home for adolescents who are developing tools to uh healthier tools for a better life uh there's a lot of kids walking to and from this gas station they love their snacks and Duncans and um due to one comment two likes on Facebook there's at least three people I'm aware of that'll be happy to have this liquor available close to home I'm sure it's a much larger number no dispute there what does the research show now I'm not into the semantics of like exactly where the the cooler is located and all that stuff I'm looking at it from a global Public Health perspective that we have control in Littleton to make some more mindful decisions about our placement of these things so the availability of alcohol in close proximity to school it doesn't matter how many feet they're talking about even a half mile radius it's directly correlated with underage drinking binge drinking and effects on school behavior and marketing is a whole other Factor correlated with above I don't get much into alcohol sales increase crime prostitution pedestrian injuries and motor vehicle accidents in close proximity of those sales of this particular type of license offsite alcohol causes 3.1 million ER visits is the fourth largest cause of hospital readmissions and is the most common Behavioral Health diagnosis in the State per capita cost of alcohol um related issues are $861,000 and these statistics are with the laws in place no matter where we put the cooler no matter where we have the cameras or the trash barrels which that's a whole other story um we have the tools to make these mindful decisions in our community and protect our underage populations are those at greatest risk previously working as a critical care nurse and Hospital Administration for over 16 years at a level one trauma center the medical information is probably less sexy to all of you but it is something that is drowning our Healthcare system and um you know people feel like they're not going to not going to see it or feel it in our community we already are and it's going to continue happening it's about making mindful decisions about where to place these things I'm fine with discussion about a liquor store elsewhere but not in these high-risk areas um and if allowed I have many opinions on multiple offsetting mandates the town should consider and that still doesn't break the bank on the per capita expense or how it's impacting our e adolescence and youth in this town um thank you for your time thank you any questions thank you I could have references for days thank you thank you for your research uh Jonathan plat 68 Bruce Street um thank you for inviting us for comments today uh I don't want to rehash everything that was said but I'm I'm here to talk to you about adolescence as well I'm a scientist and the uh the science of of risk taking in adolescence is an important thing to consider because this would be close to where our adolescence are located uh and in my view if this is likely to cause bad outcomes for adolescence there's uh no potential upside of Permitting the sale of alcohol that could justify those negative effects um so the scientific literature says that adolescents are gradually developing the prefrontal cortex which is uh a process that continues well into adulthood the prefrontal cortex is responsible for top down thinking which is to say impulse control the limic system which is responsible for uh assessing rewards and long-term memory is developing much faster and that's why adolescents are prone to RIS taking the proposal here is to permit alcohol sales in a convenience store near High School not in a separate package store but in a convenience store that's frequented by our adolescents who are grabbing their dunks they're grabbing their Sal's Pizza they're hanging out in the parking lot we know that we're going to collocate adolescence with the with the beer it's common sense that uh ad are more likely to try to steal alcohol or obtain it by other illicit means when it's collocated with other lawful activities that they're engaging in rather than when it's behind a you know the the uh enclosure of an independent package store and so um you know I know the location management says that they will have security measures in place to enforce lawful sales but this does not address the problem because either the adolesence will succeed and obtain the alcohol and they'll have negative consequences associated with with that or they will fail to obtain the alcohol and face legal repercussions that could affect them all into adulthood um so either way it's a bad outcome so at least for some of our adolescence I think this could be avoided by not collocating it with their activities so I think I speak on behalf of a lot of parents when I say we don't need or want these sales at this location uh there are many other locations that could be considered in town um so I'm asking you to just please consider whether this is the most responsible place to permit alcohol sales in the town uh once again thank you for for allowing me to to speak thank you thank you anyone else wish to speak Mr chair I would note we did also receive separate comments um via email um that uh sus Mander I'm sus Mander um if I could just read it in for the record um with your permission so uh this is from uh Susan Mander um and uh I'm opposed to granting a malt and wine license at 25 King Street I believe it is not appropriate to sell alcohol at a gas station even one uh with a convenience store also this property is within 500 ft of the school property a malt wine retail facility should not be convenient on this end of town the depot area but not the at this proposed location thank you for your consideration that's it so there's nothing else we should probably before we before we close do you mind if I just ask a question of the petitioner um Energy North is is that halters am I saying the it's one of the same half acquired okay and I don't know if I'm out of bounds on this but um there's a plan to put a facility 2 miles down the road on the same road which is that that's a half as well okay uh just when uh Mr Platt spoke he said in his other locations and just for consideration that might be a better location because it is further away from the school and I did take into consideration the uh the the youth home across the street and um I don't know I just just a thought uh Houston 55 Jennifer Street to piggyback on what Mr Doos just said uh hner is redoing a much larger facility 2 miles down the road I presume without knowing in advance or speaking for halfers we still have one license even assuming you were to Grant this one correct there would be another one still available three three Al together but as two there's two right now there's three we just arer Archer mobile common convenience and little convenience of three they're issued I won't get in the wor we have three right now one would make it giving this away we have two was Commons was Commons given back because they got full liquor uh it would yeah it would under that that would make the third one so there are three available now three okay that's that's not what's at the B my only point was there will be enough that I would speculate I'm prone to speculation maybe it's unsafe for me to do so but I would speculate that you will be faced with a new application down the road for another half Nur where they would like to sell it there as well so then we would have two of there so my only point is is I agree I don't think planning a beer and wine store across the street from the high school selling beer and wine till 11:00 at night is a good idea in that location we should move it to the other location thank you appreciate your input should we close the public hearing no other no other input there's no other input I move that we close the public hearing second Mo by Matthew second by Ken roll call uh roll call Matthew Matthew's yes chck Chuck yes Gary uh Gary's yes Karen's yes and Mark say yes so the hearing is closed now we can deliberate I mean at first blush I was inclined to say yes but then as I started to think about it and you know heard the the input from some of the residents that are you know immediately Ed by it um and uh the fact that there is that other location it is the same proprietor um you know the same same owner um i' I'd rather hold off on this one and be willing to grant them the one down the road see how that goes and you know see if they to Cameron's Point clean up their act um and just going to put this one on pause kind of and you know see how they so take no action um if we can can we is that an option yeah versus deny that deny well you're denying you're denying the license at this position at this spot what you're doing I mean taking no AC what's that mean I mean perhaps down the road we would do it if if we're I mean I'm offering this as my opin we can re at any time right if obviously they'd have to come forward again correct is there no time limit for how long we have when application is submitted how long we have to respond uh I think that falls back to the ABC you continue the hearing but you know it has to be for a date certain so like you know if if if the concern is um you wanted to wait until the next store that really probably isn't very realistic because I that you're probably better off um taking no action or denying voting no at this point than than to to to just to just wait if you wait you want to wait for a purpose so I I I think aligned with Chuck I was ready to say that's this is fine but this this these discussions have kind of swung me around I would go so far as to say to deny it because it based on the um debate tonight I don't think there's ever going to be a good time for a convenience store in this location to sell beer and wine um as I was I was prior to this thinking that the safeguards in place are enough but as we learned from Littleton convenience that's clearly not the case and it took the police department to sort of uncover that and I don't think that that's a great use of our resources so so I think I would be inclined especially since there is another option as you say two miles down the road much farther away from um all of the The Adolescents and just as convenient to King Street I would be inclined to deny this one and be very inclined to grant them one at the Bruce Street location sorry that's you know oh looking at me um yeah this is one of those I you know I wanted to hear some of the public comment for sure um I the science part of it the trauma side of it um with children and adults but I you know we we did have a liquor store a full serve liquor store at right behind this at Johnson's for years it's called fallons Johnson's the old used to be Johnson um and uh I don't recall there ever being an incident there so I want to make sure that that's clear there's no we never had a it's good to be answer but um this is closer uh it is a convenience store it's not that's the difference a store yeah um so I had an issue with that right out of the gate I'm you know I do trust start Police Department to do the investigations and we talked about the J Jennifer Street incident that was um that was great detective work and it was in since that time obviously there's a lot of safeguards in place at that facility now um so I do recognize that I trust the the force to take care and do due diligence on these things if there's even a sniff of something going on um but all that being said um and and also the fact that I don't hate to say the term we need this type of business on that side of the Town well I guess there's a good argument for that if people that want to consume alcohol and live on that side of town we don't have anything over there and sure that that makes sense to me with we we we've heard arguments versus clustering clustering all in the center why are you clustering all the all these things in the center of town and this was an opportunity uh to move one further west um but the I I can't get over the I know I'm the other discussion about halfers going in down the road um which seems to be to me a better location for this so and it can be designed specifically around it can because it's going to be under construction and it can be more designed sure but it's just there's too many things going against it right now for me uh just I know some of the history of the place and some of the issues that we've had um and some of the after hours issues and I apologize for that I mean that's some of the things you've had to deal with that aren't um your fault by any means so but I I think we this is one that I would probably vote to to say no at this time I'm I'm concerned about the collocation of you know a pizza joint and a Duncan and seems the alcohol sales right near the high school I know I know the kids from the high school you know are are at the gas station a lot um and like it or not when you have a busy location and you have um kids who want alcohol it's a lot easier to get it when there's lots of folks moving through um and park and wreck moving yeah Park and wreck will be right there um in the group home as well um I do I agree with you that it's not ideal to to um to say you know this is without um another option but there is another option um down the road and so I think one that's not within walking distance would be of the high school would be a much better choice so I yeah I've been struggling with this I'm not a big fan of liquor stores and gas stations especially 24-hour gas stations I mean the convenience stores we have in town close there's not an issue with after hours sales so much that are we can that too from the licensing standpoint yeah but it's just um and it is awfully close to the high school and there are kids over there all the time um so I think it's not the 10:30 p.m. I'm worried about as much as the 300 p.m. when there's 42 kids in the in the store buying Snickers and the six-pack goes missing that seems like a much more likely scenario to me I mean you know you yes I trust the Littleton Police Department but how many sales went have gone by without anybody knowing it certainly there's no we're never going to stop we're never going to stop the Adolescent drinking problem and I mean it's not going to happen but we can you know as one of the speakers said make some common sense decisions here and this one after it's all said and done seems more like a common sense decision where it's located it's not conducive to this it's such a a busy location in and out there's just a lot going on there um with several businesses in the building itself to include a car wash to include just a busy busy intersection so I'm I I just don't feel comfortable putting it in there that's all regardless of whether or not they're putting something in two two miles down the road it's the location is yeah true right I mean that sure sues the pain a little bit because the concern of yes there has been residents that have said we would like something on the west side of the town we don't have any so well we have a we think we have a a fix to that potentially if that if that's ends up playing itself out so it seems like uh slam dunk to me so are we agreed on denying is it vot got you got to take a vote so um do we have a move that the select board vote to deny the application of energy North Inc for a wine and malt beverage off- premise alcohol license requested under Mass General law ch 138 section 15 submitted by Energy North Inc 25 King Street Littleton Mass second good by Matthew second by Karen does this have to be a roll call or I'd recommend that Matthew Matthew's yet uh Matthew is yes on the motion took me a minute CH I'm in favor of the motion Gary's yes Karen yes uh and I yes as well okay thank you thank you thank you appreciate your time we do appreciate your business in town I know this tough on the fall but thank you for your business it is and we are looking forward to the new new store as well honestly uh the orchard update okay so the orchard working group met um last Thursday and we reviewed the three responsive responses to the request for proposals um and we agreed that um one of them which we design number four was um the best of the of the three that we were able to review it's great that there's none of number four on the screen so what is it I I number five is it number what is it it's five is it five okay um so the there was a lot of discussion um I think that the the The quick summary is this one was um it had it it was best for I think we we um appreciated it for for one thing because um it requested the entire Orchard the entire APR Land There was the another application which was very well written and very detailed but they only wanted um a smaller section of the orchard which would leave APR land in the hands of the town and you know I felt that that was a very um wise move on their part because they you know it was not a large operation that they were applying and they didn't necessarily have the capitalization or the you know maybe the the infrastructure necessary to to take over the whole Orchard but this this number five did have that did have those things it was a business model that the uh the applicant had had previously worked on and was understood um and uh had equipment and wanted to have the whole property the one catch and the reason why we debated a great deal was that the applicant said that they were only interested if they could purchase the barn and the house um and they were Al they were also only interested essentially in lease to own so well they they didn't they were okay leasing the land they but they wanted they buy the house in the barn so just for more color all of them wanted to buy the house that's correct um and I believe at least I'm not sure if all three of them wanted to also buy the barn um some of them wanted to also buy the land so um we based on the RFP responses uh selling the orchard is definitely the preferred model for the respondents and so where we ended up was you know the orchard working group said we you know in our charge as reviewing these applications it is clear that this is the best applicant based on the application the with the caveat that you know this was an RFP for lease and we weren't able to consider whether or not we could we could sell the the land so we cannot in obviously as as a body we cannot go into a lease negotiation with the end result of selling the orchard to this person and we don't know whether or not that's going to be a deal breaker if if we decide that this is the best response and we open their bid their bid letter but we will need to make that decision or we we'll need to decide not to open any of these and to go back to the process of trying to sell the orchard at the Springtown meeting so this was a lease RFB that's correct this is for a lease and a lease only that the the only thing we can legally agree to in the lease is a right in the in the negotiations as a lease so we discussed that if the leasing process didn't work this was our last try at it we we agreed as a board that we would go back out for spring town meeting for a sale of the property and we've and we've engage with the mapc to help us get that get that across the finish line but you are saying that a lot of these discussed the sale why all of them why would they put it why would that even be brought up in the in their RFB because all of them said you know we're interested in purchasing the land or we're purchas or purchasing the house as part of their application whether or not it was yeah part of the you know the the paperwork that was well it helps us craft a sale RFP in the spring or or as soon as possible I guess but where does that leave us what are you saying that we either don't open any envelopes because nobody's truly interested in a lease or are you saying I'm saying that if we open the envelope for number five yeah and we like there's the risk that the lease negotiations will not go anywhere because he is only interested in a purchase ultimately only interested in a purchase trust I don't know and I you know not a question we asked and I can't get any more information without um making an unfair violating right violating it so we have to decide based on the information that we have in front of us um you look confused Karen I'm sorry am I not doing a good job no I think I think we're good I just it was that last bit so this this um applicant or you know bidder is interested in leasing the orchard yes but they are but they indicated that in order to lease the orchard they must be able to buy the barn in the house that's correct and we cannot enter into negotiations for buying the barn in the house that's incorrect we can because it's separate it's not on the APR those those are neither of those are protected by the APR no no but we can't we we don't have we cannot ENT negotiations right now we don't have permission because they're not we haven't declared them Surplus so that's correct we can't enter negotiations to sell those items but had we had the RFP gone out with that as an option there might be other but the problem there was as we discussed with Town Council we can't do that until the town allows us to UND understood but if if they're all interested to Gary's point if we we don't have someone that's going to outright lease it unless they have that's viable that you've considered viable the group the committee yeah I mean I I think all three of them were viable okay but this this one was I think the best so the the risk here of not opening anything and just saying okay there's obviously a a high probability that a sale we risk coming back around an RFP goes out for the sale of the of that and then something changes in the next 6 months climate wise for for a buyer and then they just uh things have changed right back to square so I guess I see that as a as a a low risk because Mark and I are committed to entering into these lease negotiations very quickly and having a cut off date if there's not a lease by December 31st then we're done with that process so I think that if we open the bid envelope for number five and we start negotiations within I would assume the first day or hour of talking we we will be able to determine whether or not there's an end state that both of both of both the town and the applicant are going to be happy with and if that applicant says I'm not going to do this I'm not going to risk this lease without some some shity that I'm going to be able to purchase the barn in the house but we can say okay we understand we'll go to town meeting and we'll yeah but there's no there's no shity that they would be the purchasers of right no that's true someone you come in with a much better off absolutely but but again there that there are a number of other applicants who all said they want to purchase yeah I really wanted to lease this property um I um okay so I guess we have we have a decision to make can you can you speak a little bit so more for the public that might not have seen what this particular leaser um wants to do with proper yeah so so this leaser is a um a nursery a a tree um tree farmer a what a tree farmer so they they um grow native trees and shrubs they grow them in pots they would essentially put these pots in the rows of the orchard as it exists already so they wouldn't need all of the orchard trees to be taken away or they would do it or they would do it themselves they are very committed to sustainability um and basically integrated Pest Management making sure that there's um local sort of and and and the fact in the applic a they pointed out that this would be from an ecological perspective far superior to an orchard which is a very very pesticide and this is this is all done as a natural process to grow these trees and shrubs it's a business that is already in place and is successful um they have equipment and um their proposal in general because it encompassed the whole property seemed like a very attractive one and the business history I I mean yeah I just wish it was Lea so I what do you I don't know where to go from here what's what's the we how do we entertain something that so I think you know the end result here if you put a deadline on December whatever we're going to enter negotiations and those negotiations are probably going to end in well you're going to have to put in again RFP in the spring for a sale because we can't negotiate a sale of this property so so I think tonight we just have to decide we pick one or we don't pick any and then that RF this RFP process is over and I really want to try to get this finished tonight because we just keep it keeps dragging on there was no true leaser that was really viable unfortunately there was another applicant who did not complete their application who was interested in just losing but we couldn't consider them because their applicant the application wasn't complete and actually and and you know the there was a Le a lesie who was interested in purchasing the house and was interested in leasing the land but not the whole Orchard not the whole not the whole APR like roughly a little more than half of it which we could have worked but as long as 50% of the APR land is farmed well and they would have farmed all everything they leased and it would have it would have met the standards but it leaves us the town back holding the bag on you know to third of that land and doing the same thing that we're doing now whereas this the this applicant that we're considering is basically taking care of the ENT all of the API land in a way that's like I think a good use of it I I will also say some of these were really hard to consider like the one I mean you're you're looking at how much the town has to like some of these require the town to clear some of the trees all of the trees the town to rehab the barn not rehab I mean there was so much variation and there's so much things that you know we don't necessarily have the funds or control over as the working group right you know we don't have we can't say oh yeah we can commit to removing the trees right there's no funding source for that or you know when you're talking about investing significant money into you know upgrading the barn or the irrigation system we didn't we don't have the funding for that either this applicant though they want applicant number five though they want to buy the barn in the house required no money out from the town so you don't believe that in negotiations you can negotiate a lease with them I don't know and then later and then follow up with a sale an RFP for the sale I I I would I hope we can but that would be the only reason to open the envelope because if you if you know that it's not going to why do it then well I mean I guess why not do it like if if there's a chance it will work that's what I'm saying if there's a chance I don't know that I don't know that it's non-starter or not yeah okay but I I don't know that's I mean I'm bringing it to the board because you you have all the information we do at this point I see a couple public comments we okay to take time sure okay Rob Houston 55 Jennifer Street can I ask a couple questions first if we open an envelope call it number five what's the negative implication what's the negative impact of opening the I don't believe there is one so I I mean why were even having a discussion about opening an envelope strikes me as strange Rob I believe if I may I believe it's time because we could immediately go into working on an RFP for sale of the property whereas now we have to go draw out a lease process of a lease that we know is not going to happen well first of all we don't know that and that's really what I wanted to say you're not going to know that until you open the envelope that's what that's I was asking so you open the envelope and you have that conversation that says look all we can do is lease the property and if you want to buy the property or buy the barn and or the house that's a completely separate transaction can we move forward and talk about that's that that's what and and you get you lose Nothing by opening the envelope and doing that but more importantly from my perspective having sat through that town meeting if you if you go out an RFP you get something that you can potentially negotiate on and then you refuse to do it and then go back to the town and say the only thing we can do is sell it because we didn't open an envelope you're asking for public relations nightmare so so we may ultimately end up with no choice and we can also walk and chew gum right they can start negotiating a lease you can part start putting together an RFP I know there's work on the town's part to do that and I'm not dismissing the V you know the impact of doing that but you could do both at the same time and so I don't see any downside in opening it that's really what I wanted to say so so to a couple you're you're good R so to a couple of Rob's points we were going to set a firm date like December 31st by which we had to be done with the lease negotiations or we had to be done one way or another we have the MPC meeting set up to start in the Forum set up in January or February in case the lease negotiations aren't successful so we are walking and chewing gum at the same time or not quite at the same time but both are moving forward yeah we don't want to we don't actually want to do them both simultaneously because you want to do the least with good faith but we are trying to move both of them forward um so that we are ready um either way in in May so anyone else hi uh Kristen kazus Littleton um I have been involved in listening to um this process for a while and in terms of this RFP for the lease it's just been a little bit disappointing because um we were told that we were going to be able to see the redacted version of the rfps um submittal and we haven't been able to and even this morning I looked online and they weren't posted so I'm concerned about you guys going into lease agreements and talks was someone that may end up being the person that will eventually Buy buy property without Town input and um we also in terms of selling the barn selling the house there's been talks about um doing restrictions on them so are they willing to buy those properties with the restrictions or not and that's something I'm concerned about um so I can answer those okay you we would not be able or would sell anything without another RFP process so just because someone has a lease that means absolutely nothing in terms of through an RFB process in order to sell it would be it would be a different process okay I had heard um in discussions that whomever if you go forward with a lease and it's successful that part of one of the things you wanted to offer was a lease to own to that person we cannot do that we cannot do that we must go through the same process to sell that we just went through okay with a a crafted RFP and responses and evaluation okay that's good to know um and then as far as the restrictions um we were we are trying to restrict both to make sure that they stay relatively intact I don't know what form that will take whether it's historical restriction with the historical commission but that would be I believe part of the lease the lease or purchase negotiations with whoever decided to take those properties okay but I think the the working group and to some extent this board both feel pretty strongly that those properties those those structures need to be protected um the barn especially is very valuable old like you know 18th 17th Century Construction so there's yeah right and and we don't know if number five is willing to buy the barn and the house with those restrictions that's correct we don't know that okay yeah um and then in terms of your choice for number five um I appreciate that they want to do all of the land but other applicants I believe wanted all the land as well um I know that you use their management plan as a strong Factor um but in the um RFP um I believe there was a line in there that said that this was that they didn't need to submit their full um management plan and so it's just a little bit confusing when they're filling out the proposal thinking that they don't have to do their full management plan but then that's a very high criteria that you used in selecting a proposal so that's something that is a little bit disconcerning the other part is is um I think there's a huge component that's being missed in the conversation about this land um I believe the town of Littleton has a real opportunity here in terms of not only sustainability agriculture um our culture in itself our history and our community um this land was part of the new town um Nisha praying Indian Reservation um and it wasn't brought up into the RFP as to how these applicants are going to honor that or um take that into consideration with the care of the land um because I think that's something that's really important not only I mean it's on our town seal is SOA Plantation right so this is ingrained in who Littleton is and um I think to in terms of what type of Agriculture is going to be there I know bransfield tree company they're a great company um but I'm not sure if growing those trees and how that's going to be used is really what that sacred land is really meant to be there's such a bigger story that could unfold and I think that that we're making decisions right now not just for right now to meet the APR um obligation but also for the next Generations and so this is a this is a big decision here and I appreciate everything that's going into it but um I just think that there's a bigger story here that needs to be considered in these decisions um and then the other couple of things too is um in the APR that um an exhibit B it's the um the conservation plan and that wasn't brought up in the RFP um it's um exhibit B and I just didn't know how these applicants were going to be um did they provide a conservation plan as well in their proposals it wasn't part of the criteria that we we asked them to to address in the in the um in the RFP okay because that's a requirement of the APR land yeah in exhibit B with um it so accordance with a conservation plan developed utilizing the standards and specifications of nrcs field office um so I mean are you referencing the APR or the RFP APR so the APR the conservation would be for the conservation land as part of the well I'm not sure what the relationship is between the the conservation restrictions and the APR well part of the APR so I think for part of the APR the state still has to approve as well the lease if I'm correct yeah so okay so and I guess that would be a question of because we actually own the land and we're the one that's are supposed to make sure the APR is being met we're leasing it to somebody and saying you need to meet the APR so aren't we wanting to know that whom we're leasing it to or getting into negotiations can meet all the requirements of the APR I guess that would be the negotiations well I I mean we they must they must meet the requirements of the APR by by law but wouldn't we want to know what their conservation plan is and whether or not they can um there's terms of conditions of prohibited use um acts and structures and there's number three is one of concerning because um there's a lot of things that can happen on that property that we normally wouldn't want but if it's in um required for the premises for normal agricultural activity things will be allowed on according to the APR and I'd really like to know if the person that we're going to entrust in caring for the land is going to meet these things or going to need these variances or exemptions so do you guys not know where they are in the APR I can bring so I don't know where they are in the APR and I well I'll suggest that you know and I will talk to you offline and get these so we sure that they're meeting the requirements in the negotiations I don't know that they I don't know that any of the applicants went into that level of detail in their RFP proposal but is probably something we need to make sure we address in the lease well and I think that that maybe if we end up doing an RFP for sale I would think these were things that we would should know as yes the town and being the Guardians of that property that these things are being met yes yes please the the actually the the only applicant that I had any concern about was Building green houses and sheds on the property which is usually new structures are restri are are um restricted by certainly by conservation restrictions but probably by aprs as well and I think that will said that no mdar makes makes waivers for that but you have to apply through the state to build a high tunnel or a or an animal pen so so I'm like like from my point of view I was assuming that everybody was going to was going to behave and and and respond and like you know live within the boundaries of the APR like to to whatever degree was necessary um I didn't expect anybody would be asking for waivers or exemptions from any of those standards well how do you know well well I mean you know once they once they get into it that absolutely but that absolutely can be part of the pro I mean that would be a mandate as part of the lease is you have to adhere to the APR with all the restrictions that are in the in the APR well and I think there's some leeway in it especially with that number three as we as a town can be like especially if we're still the um owner of the land um what we're going to allow them to do and what they aren't going to allow them to do and are they cuz we're actually going into business with these people and that's something that there needs to be a trust and an understanding and what does the town actually want and I think that's one of the things too that it's really not a clear um goals as to what the town wants and when I say town I mean everybody that lives in town not just you guys um but what the goals are for the long term of this property and it's not just agriculture I mean there's so many other components it's not just we need apple trees it's um it's really thinking about a management plan for this property yeah yeah yeah okay so thank you I would like it to just move on to a sale so that we can get public input and um do a proper RFP with all these things being considered please thank you anyone else Mr chair if I may I think Kristen's point is well taken I think it's illustrative of why we are will be terrible landlords despite all our best efforts um you know you're right we didn't ask about that I would also argue that maybe the RFP isn't the isn't necessarily the right place to ask that the RFP judge is was able to judge the sophistication of the business it required a you know the APR requirement is in there clearly um and I I would argue that we can get a you know you you do get a good understanding of the level of Competency of an applicant to um adhere to the APR through the process without asking them exactly how they're how they're going to meet every criteria the APR um but to your point you know it's not something we've considered it would be something that would have to go on a punch list of thing yet another thing that we have to track that we have to figure out how to assess that we have to figure out you know how what's compliant for us how are we going to determine whether they're compliant Etc Etc so that's that's my point so I'll just play little devil's advocate here on this not that I don't agree with a lot of the points but I don't know that we had those same requirements in the previous we didn't and I don't remember any of that in the negotiations on the last lease no I thought the itself was the conservation plan so the land I I don't have hold high hopes that we're going to successfully negotiate at leaste but I kind of agree with M Mr Houston that we should try um it's going to cost us Matthew and I six weeks of time at most um and we'll either have one or we won't um and we'll know a lot we'll know a lot more within probably two or three weeks whether we have any chance so yeah just tell Mark those cookies yeah yeah so I I don't I don't know where it will go but I think we I think we kind of have to I think we have to try yeah I agree so I guess is this something we can get updates every meeting absolutely just to where where we are how absolutely is this something that has to be put into a um executive session if we're talking about specific it probably would be right in terms if there are material elements that you're in negotiation for I I think updating us every meeting just so we understand yeah I I it's important for sure do that for sure you guys are we're we're we're speaking as a real quick we already Pastor 805 time I know I'm sorry thank you so much he was G to go one that's nothing to do with you I am just thoughtful of um because um the public hasn't been able to actually read the RFP yet uh and the proposal is it possible before you guys start your lease you know agreement um conversations to make that RFP the acted version available to the public it's in the packet tonight I think it was posted around 12:00 to we added it to the pack so so that's really not a lot lot of time for folks to be able to read it but what I I would appreciate and I think many other people would and this is the whole thing with transparency and developing trust is is that um if you could um maybe hold a meeting to give time for people to come to make any comments so that you've got those in place sure opinions I can hold a meeting like office hour type meeting where people can come in yeah we'll set one of those up that' be appreciated thank you do we want to kind of Hit the pause button right now no no okay no let's let's let's move forward with this applicant I in my opinion I've got a voice that concern with you know we're saying this applicant is great except for this part that isn't technically compliant um what are we saying is I I would argue that saying I'm only you know this is a contingent proposal on something that is not within your power to bestow is arguably it borders non-compliance in my opinion um and so then it's you know if we're willing to say okay we like everything but this so let's see if you know Bill bend on that what about the other applications um you know is if we're willing to B you know if how do we you know if they're willing to bend on something else is does that make them better so I think when we graded them we considered bending on for all of the applications okay um this one seemed like still the best still the best yes did it require the least bending um no I I think they all requireed quite a few gymnastics that's that was my impression as well so yeah just looking at it I it's it was going to be I it was going to be difficult to get this through any of these the leas so so all right that's unfortunate but at least so do we want a motion to proceed with lease negotiations for number five continue on us doing I I I would make that motion we have consensus on that I think do we yeah sorry do we have consensus on moving forward with negotiations um Ryan like what form should the motion take are we are we are we saying we're going to open the bid envelope from like how what I don't think you necessarily need to do that you just would say that um you know you make a motion that um Matthew nordos and Mark ronacher um proceed forward to negotiate with um this they was it the the lead candidate or whatever tree tree company uh for negotiations okay so so moved second mve by Matthew second by Chuck all those in favor I I thank you special town meeting update okay um so uh we are progressing along here town meeting is right around the corner uh on uh Tuesday October 29th um our uh town meeting report you should have re this was sent out uh on uh October 11th and 12th was Friday in Saturday so hopefully um everybody has received that um we just to give a a general update we are meeting at 9:30 at uh Friday in room 103 it's our regular coordination meeting um we have within that um our chair and vice chair of the select board chair and vice chair of uh the finance committee um uh the town clerk uh lctv uh it department Town Council as well so we'll be um coordinating all the sort of nuts and bolts for that session um and uh kind of going through the Articles and fing else what what remains outstanding uh some of the things that remain outstanding are we're working on our presentation for article one which is Shaker Lane uh as as we talked about earlier Mark um that meeting is taking place on Wednesday night um at uh at at the police department we had one this past Wednesday so uh we're continuing to get feedback from the community we encourage the public to come in for that meeting and um you know as as we continue to refine this um the plan is at town meeting uh that a 10-minute presentation be provided um there will be um it won't be any uh question and answer um at at that session however uh the um committee the Shaker Lane School building committee is is committed to having uh sessions soon thereafter uh probably in all likelihood at the school that will also be combined with a tour of the school that we can uh begin to um you know educate uh the community more about what's going on with that I believe turn of town he was going to have some some some materials available prior to town meeting out in the lobby with you know yeah one of the things we're working on Chuck is a question and answer so that would have that so there' be a handout plus um the presentation um at that meeting line uh time timeline is part of the presentation right now yeah yeah that's there Ryan one of the things we discussed last I don't know what it was last week but at our meeting was that um there would be FAQ there'd be something available for people there weren't going to be any questions on the floor but there was going to be like handouts and there was going to be turn towns and he representatives there that M could that was Town moderated decision correct correct yeah so uh are we okay with um just Tim is typically just one person to present are we okay with uh Kelly we we're going to work on that because there may be I think we trying to talk about who should be doing that presentation we're still trying to come to terms with that um as to who the appropriate party should be so Kelly would be a likely candidate uh Michelle Kane would be a likely candidate and Justin I think those are the three you mentioned so um I I think you know in these circumstances that depending on their willingness to do it would be a likely you know uh likely that could there I think what's been published is that you have 10 minutes in Pap you figure it out Tim we prefer one speaker but if you have multiples you still have and I think just courtesy to Tim just to just get that the nod right right so when this is all said and done in 202 2025 2026 whenever um this will be a school committee article in terms of this it be the the warrant itself uh so the warrant um when when we eventually vote on it yeah it would be looking around this time next year when the actual uh so there' be a special town meeting and town meeting would need to vote to authorize the debt uh that's one thing and then the select board would be separately requested that we put the question on the ballot so you really need those two things to happen hand in hand uh but in terms of whatever goes on the ballot that is the determination of the select board so um you'll get a sense of of I mean if town meeting doesn't approve to move forward and and allow uh to extend debt U or in this case excluded debt then and it sort of renders the um subsequent vote at the polls move so okay um but uh so we'll have that presentation we're talking some more about that in the 23rd uh we are waiting for an update on article four which is the T courts uh article change ing some of that around uh the CPC approved of uh of funding the supplement uh on the um at their meeting on the 16th so making good progress there so that's important that we'll have their endorsement um we're also waiting for presentation on Article 5 which is the marijuana zoning changes um so I'm presuming we're going to be seeing something there in more of a full presentation um than what we had seen last time and the last thing is a Conservation Commission is going to be presenting uh something or or a the article about neog Hill Orchard this is a portion of the orchard uh that Conservation Commission is requesting being put into um into conservation as a um you know permanent permanent protection so uh they'll be making that presentation so um let's see other pieces we'll be working on on uh some other uh substitute motions for um uh for article 8 uh that's the trans that's the transfer closing out of a number of capital articles one of the things that came to our attention is for the tennis courts we still had a little bit left over for debt it's about 15 16,000 so uh and speaking about this with the um chair of the finance committee we thought it might make sense to just take the portion of some portion of the money that we're closing out and apply it to that uh that 16,000 so we don't have to extend debt it's probably not not worth it to do that and then um the uh and then we may uh potentially have an article uh set another substitute for a collective bargaining um agreement which um maybe you know maybe something that we'd have to put forward as well um uh let's see we're recording our show tomorrow with um for lctv for um the special town meeting that's happening tomorrow and uh you should be seeing your binder within the next couple days uh which is all the articles some of you had already G back to us who wants it electronic who wants it uh in a binder format so I think you've already gotten back to Lisa on that and uh we'll be getting that out as well so everything is uh moving ahead fairly smoothly we'll be seeing some of you on the 23rd at the Shaker Lane School building committee and um some of you also on Friday the 25th um so at the U coordination meeting so a lot of progress uh but U even though it's only 12 articles um should be hopefully not a terribly long night but uh we do a few things that are cont soite your t Okay okay so any other questions yep okay thank you uh vote on a MFC contract if I could Mr chair this is just uh the the um we've already done um this is the monies we've received from the state through the community compact uh for this contract the fact that this exceeds $50,000 it requires the board's approval there's no discussion move that the select board vote to authorize Town Administrator James Dugen to execute a contract with the metropolitan area planning Council mapc in an amount not to exceed $55,000 for the ngog hill Orchard education and consensus building project second move by Matthew second by Karen all those in favor I uh followup from the Colin center for the charter process you have uh distributed uh to the select board um handouts a typo it says how oh so uh this is some of the um suggestions that as as examples of some other other communities that have uh started a similar process I'm just trying to find uh my notes here um okay so it's uh what what we going to have you can just uh the hubon I think was the most applicable one that's that why that's why that one's at the top but it really just basically looks at the mission the background the goals basic information and it's it's advocating it's a it's advocating for people to uh to get involved and uh uh to be informed with with the process and uh uh and being engaged uh with offering opinions and and things of that nature and it's uh it really gives you an opportunity the select board to decide how you would like to if you want to just uh a how many how many people would you like on the committee and it arranges anywhere between uh five and nine and uh also how how that how you would like to do that how whether that's distributed amongst yourself the school committee for for a selection of as bodies select you can you can the select board would let's say pick this seven pick three or two or however you whatever you would determine then you would assign a selection to from to the school committee and then you could have some is that you said the school committee for any particular reason on this one I I understand when we're talking budget but this what's the school committee have well I I you know in a matter of just being part of because ultimately um in in some respects they uh their operations could be affected by by a town manager also instead of on on how it is currently there could be changes to that yeah I mean there's a lot more on it than this town manager potential it's a lot of other stuff too absolutely I mean with without a doubt I mean you're not deluding anything of the of the school committee's respon role or responsibilities but there could be a more anactive role that the the this select board would like a town manager to be more involved so each body would appoint members like we do with f ask all the body's correct yeah I mean and you can do it any way you want you want to just do Straight appointments or you can if you want to take an application process there are there's a couple different ways that that the select board can do it but ultimately at the end of at the end of the day the committee reports to the select board they answer to it um even even even with if let's say if one of you if one of you was on the board on on the committee I mean it's um ultimately you're it's you know you're still part of the select board that the entire point ansers to I mean are are you suggesting that we basically start to craft a document like this it would be or is it more a broader discussion about membership of the charter committee and I think it's parallel tracks I think I think you yes I mean I think you you need to I I suggest I recommend that the select board um start doing something like this and um of drafting like this and then it's really a matter of how you'd like the the makeup of the membership committee to uh to be uh like such as there is on second for for the situ um the charter Review Committee uh one member from the select board one from the planning board one from the school committee one from the finance committee so there's uh there's many different ways you can get to that to that number and they're in situ between seven and nine members but there are some communities that have had as little as five it's all up to you and once once this is established uh then it's a matter then the um call and Center will be um thoroughly engaged uh and they they had made a suggestion that there there needs to be some type of a a liaison or a uh maybe even a administrative uh individual that they can uh the the that the uh Charter Review Committee can can utilize uh through the process when whether it's scheduling whether it's doing a uh you know doing a virtual a virtual meeting uh number of different things so what are the next steps then um to come back go back and and and think of those two things actually you know uh I don't know how the the chair would like to just you know to divide divide up the responsibilities the role of of crafting something like this and really uh have a discussion on how you would on a the number of members and B how you would like to appoint those members you to add that that discussion to the agenda like for the first meeting after town meeting maybe have um and we'll have the number of people locked in and who and the appointing authorities and then the members at Large um that's the other part of this correct numbers at large citizens at large which are correct the majority probably major depend on how we make it it depends oh that's true yeah right I mean we can make them all at large effectively right and and even if a slick board member wanted to be on the committee you're just applying as m l member at large um okay and then the structure I mean I I was just as I read through these there's a lot of great pieces in this I think we can steal from each each town and then we probably we have our own that we've talked about um kind of the things that we want I mean how do we we going to straw pull this how do we want to put this together so I was going to sign it to you were you yeah to take these three and right up one and come at come back to the next meeting yeah I mean I can I can pass it to you right and then you can pass to everybody to sure yeah so we don't violate any of course okay okay so and then come maybe at that meeting we should all come with ideas on composition and size of the committee yeah because I think that's going to be we should have that at debate at at a meeting yeah I 7 to9 members and do we want them all to be members at large or do we want mixed mixed yeah okay definitely don't want them all on committees at least mixed but the other the other in regards to identifying who they who they are whether that process is going to be the select board picks individuals in resid it's done through an application process and and review and exactly then you then the select board reviews and and and and selects however you whatever you what do you mean by pick as opposed to I mean we've never had a committee where we well if you get say you get 12 applicants we have to reduce that yeah but we still had to have applicants no if you don't have applicants we just not we just we just know people who we who we could do that recomending it exactly that you would feel would would because it's going to be a um in some respects of it's It's a marathon it's a a year long it's 12 to 18 month long process arduous and um and it's going to require some it's probably a a couple meetings a month and maybe four hours a month just online never mind what they could be individuals can be doing something offline for preparing for him or herself uh for upcoming meetings um so it's uh and then and there is but there there are and you you know better than anybody that there are people in in the community that that would be very very good they'd be unbiased it'd be balanced approach it would be uh they understand the workings of government and um potentially the impact and um so the other thing is we could make it a committee of nine when we see the applicants determine that there's only seven true reduce it at that point so seven to nine we're saying yeah yeah okay got to keep that odd number though 7 or nine should say okay yeah I think it's too much work for five well the Quorum you want to be able to always have yeah I I agree with that I think you need at least seven there's going to be a lot of homework involved the biggest one of the biggest things that we we got in talking to Colin Center was the the the the level of um Outreach that has to be done to the community and engagement and the opportunities for people to express questions and concerns and um and beliefs um and uh so that is uh that that is a that is a big part of the process of making that effort that Outreach effort it's very similar to the one we wrote the master plan yeah well this is a 25 almost could be a 25 year plan really talk about this right okay how government's going to run okay I'll help you Gary if you need help thank right kimbles uh for the minutes anybody have any corrections additions updates I'm good okay move that the select board vote to approve the meeting minutes from The Joint select board finance committee meeting on October 7th 2024 second move by Matthew second by Karen all those in favor I motion to adjourn second motion made to adjourn by Matthew second by Karen all those in favor I I thank you vot Litton 8:30