##VIDEO ID:ndiR_p0JUTY## good evening Littleton welcome to the November 18th select board meeting we'll start with the pledge I pledge Alle to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all [Music] uh so uh we'll be have the organization reading the mail Department updates um a recognition of lwd employees talk about the charter commission process uh we're going to have an info session about paint stewardship bills uh 7:45 we'll have public input then we'll do a select board discussion uh May 6th 2025 town meeting schedule select board meeting schedule uh update on the orchard uh a request from the to use the Littleton Town common Taylor Street exclusion Taylor Street exclusion that's an easy thing to say Northern Tier Rail Project um support and minutes so uh we'll start with the mail thank you Mr chairman um we have a number of uh uh vacancies uh on some Town boards uh and please anybody uh please get involved we've got opportunities on the agricultural commission conservation cultural Economic Development historical uh master plan permanent Municipal Building committee uh Transportation advisory Council zoning board of appeals and appointed by the school committee uh they need one member um for the for the fin for the finance committee uh sign up to receive public notifications for the town of Littleton uh we can do that by registering at www.on ma.org SLS subscribe Community impacts Public Safety activity Transportation issues town meeting changes town events public health concerns stay informed we have one gift AC gift acceptance um uh from from uh Sam Alvarez over the at the library uh in the name of the party offering the gift is the Eva apple apple bomb Investment Trust in the amount of $6 6,640 72 uh there's there's nothing specific uh uh for the purpose of why the gift has been offered and but they would like to see it uh spent uh in programming uh with that um there is a a notice of public hearing uh by National Grid uh for the approval of the utilities of National Grids and they're doing the and that's the approval by the Department of Public Utilities of its three-year Energy Efficiency plan for 2025 through 2027 and uh that is something that uh they are required to to notice uh and make a filing of all of of public hearings and um uh there could be inperson hearing on December 3rd 2024 beginning at 7:00 p.m. in Worcester at the Hogan Campus Center of the College of Holy Cross one College Street in wora uh December 4th beginning at 700 p.m in New Bedford at the Keith Middle School hathway Boulevard New Bedford virtual public hearing on December 5th beginning at 2 uh through via Zoom conference using uh using a link interpretation Services Spanish Portuguese Chinese Mandarin and Cantonese Haitian Creole and Vietnamese will be available and also went in person on December 5th uh in B in Boston at the Department of Public Utilities One South South Station Boston Massachusetts also interpretation services will be available um and um let me see um notification um zoning board of appeals notification to abutters uh the AR zba will be conducting a hybrid public hearing at 6:00 p.m. on Wednesday November 20th at air toown hall One Main Street regarding the application submitted by uh Swati Bindu Panda for the property located at 48 Apple Blossom Drive air mass seeking a special permit for the air zoning um bylaw section to allow for a family daycare home um and that is 6:00 at a town hall and M Department of uh public Mass Department of Transportation public information meeting I 49511 Bridge replacement and boxb and this and that is going to be Tuesday November 26 2024 from 6:30 to 8:30 at boxboro Town Hall in the Grange room and uh just want to make everyone available to that because uh there may be some impact that may have on Littleton residence uh uh commutes and and join us for the turkey Bingo do door prizes raffle 50/50 get ready for an evening of fun exciting and Community as we raise money for the new Senior Center you'll have a chance to win turkeys desserts veggies baskets and more Tuesday November 21st 6: to 800 p.m. in the town hall multi-purpose room and that is hosted by the friends of the Littleton Council on Aging and that's it so there was one other piece of mail that I don't know if you got the police department got that mot is going to be doing surveys of the bridge over 119 at Beaverbrook uh for preparation of replacement of that bridge I think the replacement scheduled for 26 or 27 um but they're out doing the uh environmental study of it now I think we got $13 million grant for that correct there was it's it's a state project not yeah I think it was before you came on it was yeah right down by yeah okay over the swamp super thank you okay uh recognition of light water great uh do you want to if I can let me just let me just start if I if I can um Mr Sanders had uh um had made efforts uh and uh to really uh request the select board and the administration to recognize the efforts from uh from the staff at uh from the general manager of Nick Lawler and and staff members that took time away from their families and traveled all the way down to one point in Mississippi and uh another location in Florida uh for disaster relief and they uh took time away from as I said took time away from their families went down there and um as uh Nick's most recent uh return trip for something in I believe was it South Carolina North Car Georgia okay um you know it's no picnic so it's not like you know it's it's it's a lot of fun so there's a lot of sacrifice that done and so uh and the select board H is is recognizing uh the importance and the appreciation of that they would like to recognize all of you this evening thank you yeah I'd like to say a few things thanks Jim thanks also to the president United States Rec we still wai for that one um you know Ju Just to not confuse the public with this this is for efforts uh in 2022 for Hurricane Ian uh we had eight employees um between that event and Jackson Mississippi was a flooding event a treatment plant but these employees um dedicated themselves to uh Mutual Aid is New England is incredible at Mutual Aid they really are and heart of that program runs through Littleton and that was well before I got here that goes back Generations so I really fortunate to work in Littleton these individuals get recognized tonight but there's 40 other individuals back at our La plant and water department that they would do the same thing so we've had nine events since 2022 so it's it's a little strange being recognized for the 22 event today uh but we have employees that are truly dedicated to the cause um you know we've been in Navajo Nation bring power people never had it um so you know we real fortunate to work here so I don't know if you want me to call the names out but uh we got Paul Dino went to jackon Mississippi along with Alex Luther and Alan wtz and uh Trevor SNY was in um BTO Florida turn hurricane and we've had two retirements and an employ Leos also W we that on here as well they're a part of that effort okay thank you I I can make a stand up just to be recognized so I mean that's yeah absolutely you guys are all bashful we got the chairman of our board here to support us as well good Mr teror we we do we do receive positive comments from the community often with these events I think George is the first one to call after every after every National event and uh it's really an incredible thing to be part of so thank thank you yeah thank you for the culture you've created uh want do a picture yeah we're sorry it took so long I don't know why it took so long yeah I think I think you do a recognition I I know the department does recognition as well so I we got to get better at kind of either jumping on board with yours bringing it in together where we all can recognize or definely be more timely something okay than [Music] uh Charter committee process update um Mr chairman and members of the select board this is the our ongoing project that the select board has been supportive and in um Ryan and and Ryan and I as we've um we have um taken the steps to reach out to uh existing current Town managers that have been part of the process that were Town manager former government that transitioned to town manager but one of the an individual that I think from a different perspective who who was a during his career of close to 40 years was a town manager in a couple different locations in the marac valley uh he uh reside he resides in tingbo which was uh which which which did the transition and he was on the board so uh Bob Mercier and uh having been a town manager and been part of the the process in tingor we thought it'd be a great opportunity to come and share his his perspective of of the process and um gives an opportunity for the select board to ask any questions and uh any opinions or anything like that so if I can ask Mr Mercy to come up to the podium please Podium by the way that's what local government's about makes it all worthwhile y yeah uh for people like you folks and Jim and Ryan um unsung heroes but anyway uh Jim Ryan uh thank you thank you for the opportunity I'll just be brief cuz I know you're just beginning your process and it is a process I'll tell you that um my history Jim touched upon it thanks for the 40 years Jim but start in high school um so my history is I spent the majority of my time as uh both a town manager and a Town Administrator uh different formats of government as you will find out and you probably know a lot about now uh I live in tsoro uh most of my career has been in the mermac valley I was a town manager in Bera and I was a Town Administrator twice in Burlington so I was there for the first time they changed their government and then they invited me back believe it or not after I had left for a period of time um I've been in electus selectman in tingbo and Jim's correct uh when I got on the board I it to think about how we can change the way we do business in tingbo tsbo is pretty similar you you know TSB about 12,000 people plus or minus are right on the line with New Hampshire so there are those conflicts uh for people uh but we we needed to change I thought we needed to change and we had at the time when I first got elected to the board an executive secretary and we transitioned that into a Town Administrator which is a relatively weak position because we didn't go through a chatter we didn't go through a special act we didn't do any of that we just created the position and put some responsibilities under that position and Incorporated that into our bylaws our overall bylaws As Time evolved and you're seeing it as things get more and more complex um I thought and I was off the board I was back working for a living uh I just thought that I'm not alone with people in town uh thought that we needed to think about moving to a town manager for of government because we were very decentralized as a lot of towns are and most people most reasonable people felt let's at least take a look at that we may be able to gain some benefits in efficiencies and responsibilities and accountability all of that stuff um and we started to look at it and I was appointed uh by the board to serve on a committee I was not the chair um but they created a a committee to look at creating a charter we failed the first time around uh because we didn't do enough homework and that's going to be critical for you folks moving forward make sure you do your Outreach make sure you involve the community because especially with a charter if you go that route uh Charter is going to require a vote at the ballot a townwide vote so unless you do your homework uh people could be skeptical skeptical about what your intent are going forward so you need to really do some education and that's all part of the process I know you've got a committee I saw their charge Jim and Ryan sent me their charge which is a a very good charge it's a very good starting point for you folks now the work's going to begin so let me give you a little experience with us with uh tingor um I was also in boxboro by the way as a temporary I was in whan so I know similar siiz communities um in boxboro I help helped them write their Town Administrator act cuz they had nothing um but mo more Town more and more towns not everyone more and more towns are looking to the manager form of government um well take a look around you uh most of the communities have Town managers and have Chatters uh we just finished last year the Westford Town manager search I'm also doing recruiting for Town managers uh but we did that search we've done Bedford 13,000 plus or minus people but they they've had a chatter for almost 40 years a professional manager there uh clearly barck is a town manager cheler is a town manager Acton's a town manager so anyway the point is more and more communities are moving in that direction I'll give you the other side of the coin some communities don't want to take that full bite in creating a chatter uh a chatter is a full review of your governance and your governance structure and there there are different caveats to how communities want to govern themselves uh one of the primary ones is how many people do we want to keep elected as opposed to appointed it's one of the issues you're going to face we faced it in tingor we didn't do enough homework on that and we got beaten up a little bit at town meeting on our first go round you know we were we were trying to do too much at one time we wanted to create the charter with a strong Town manager create a full Department of Public Works Department in the same argument um and and and people just said it's too much it's too much go back give us a revision and we did we did um the other part that's going to be important for you uh or for any Community uh Jim and Ryan also sent me your elected positions in town you have a lot some towns uh shy away from doing that when they move into a chatter uh obviously you keep Library trustees are always elected School committees are always elected uh the the the ones that people have some debate on is your Board of Health elected is your planning board elected is your con con elected is your Recreation Commission elected and I know I've got the list so I know what you guys are going to be dealing with but that's an issue you have to talk through uh with your community as to what you want to do I've seen it both ways I've seen uh Bera was a very very strong chatter it's one of the strongest in Massachusetts it copied the andov Lexington models uh we just finished Lexington by the way they just replaced the new town manager so a very strong chter in Lexington uh and they've had it for a long time so has conquered um so those are communities that are experienced with this but one of the things that Burlington my uh my town where I spent the most of my time in my professional career passed a special Act of the legislature in 1979 1980 period I was the first one they hired to be the New Town Administrator they had an executive secretary at the time and they knew they needed some changes but they didn't want to do a town chter they weren't quite ready for that um so what they did is they created an act of the legislature to create a Town Administrator and it's a pretty strong Town Administrator but it did not eliminate a lot of the elected positions a lot of them stayed in place uh which is something as I mentioned you're going to have to deal with uh it doesn't mean it makes governing more difficult um but but what it does is it it if you create a Town Administrator a strong Town Administrator one of the things you need to pay attention to is the appointing authority of the Town Administrator for instance I don't know if you're dealing with this we were dealing with it in jboro um we had elected Boards of Health we had an elected planning board we had an elected con con we had elected Cemetery commissioners of which we can never find anybody to run so um we we cleaned up some of that but one of the things that we face in creating a town administrative position is who's the appointing authority because I I think you know you have a pretty concise set of personnel bylaws your Town Administrator currently is your personnel administrator I believe um so it's difficult if an elected board doesn't have that kind of knowledge when they're looking to hire somebody um I can remember discussions I had in Burlington when I first got in there because it was brand new to everybody and Board of Health would come in and say look we're going to hire this guy I said that's not your responsibility anymore it's the town administrator's responsibility well we're elected I said I know that but your employee answers to the greater good right to to the town to the organization the town itself and the difficulty we had is we said look if you hire somebody first of all the Town Administrator the appointing authority forgive that for a minute if you hire somebody and you negotiate a contract with that individual and Town Administrator is not aware of it and he's he or she has other people under contracts and they're all saying how come that person got this and this person got this and it just creates a lot of unrest there's a solution to that if you go the route of a special uh special legislation um some of the language you can look at and again I'm probably preaching too much here some of the language you can look at is Town Administrator is the appointing authority in the case of a employee under the direction of the planning board board of whatever whatever group it is the Town Administrator is the appointing authority but will consult with the board on the direction of the next employee meaning and I went through it a lot and it's pretty easy Board of Health needing a new Public Health director I do the recruitment this is Burlington I'm talking about I do the recruitment with our R department and when the interviews came I'd invite a Board of Health member in easy then the Board of Health member Buys in goes to his board and say this is who in this case Bob is appointed I'm all in favor so there's ways to get around that you'll go through it as you have your committee established but it's a it's a lot of work the other thing we did in Burlington with the special act we also at the same time created a another special act to change the way we govern ourselves with town meeting we went from an open town meeting to a representative town meeting that's a discussion you can have it could be in a chatter in our case we did it we did it differently we did we created the town administrative statute and then we created the town meeting uh 686 if I remember of the acts of 1978 they created a representative town meeting in town because at the time they felt I'm not sure what you guys are dealing with but TSR still has an open town meeting you know what happens with open town meeting purus foral government we all agree to that but it also it caters to certain constituencies in the community um typically I'm not saying anything out of school here speaking of schools if you have a major School issue you're going to get a lot of people at town meeting if you don't you probably won't and the other thing that I I think what happened in Burlington is they saw it and said why don't we just create a representative town meeting they're all elected nobody appoints them they're all elected and they come from precincts in the town and they don't leave after one vote they're elected they stay there the whole time and they have an obligation to show up because they're elected representatives that's just a discussion you could have as you look at this old this whole Charter issue um but it's an interesting one and a lot of people are reluctant to look at that I have I've worked well I live in tsbo so I know the open meeting concept both Burlington and Bera had representative Town meetings um box Pro had an open whan had an open town meeting and I've worked in both those communities so um it's a it's a daunting task with in a lot of respects uh because of the educational component most people and I'm not saying this to be derogatory most people who live in your town are happy to get their trash picked up their kids go to school the police and fire there public works plows their roads they don't really understand the full operation of a town like you guys do cuz you're responsible they probably don't know the total budget you're dealing with but you know that that that becomes crystallized as you go out and and make the pitch to the to the folks in town um so I'll I'll kind of leave it at that Jim um and let you guys ask me questions I will say this Jim and I and Ryan we've known each other for years I'm sort of a municipal geek and I know you guys have hired the the Colin Center good group good group to do this they know how to do it uh but I told Jim and I told Ryan you got questions the board has questions they want to talk to me about it I'm at your you know I'm like I said I'm a municipal geek I want to see government continue to progress and I think what you're doing is a very good sign thank you you want to start I'm still noodling I had a couple questions right off the bat um you said it took you two attempts to do the charter get it approved what was the time between those two couple of years uh when when we came back the second time with our revisions which which kept in some of the elected folks because we got so much push back uh and they they've been cleaning it up by the way since then and U you know as our town clerk retired uh we replace it with an appointment blah blah so anyway it's a it's a work in progress I guess but the reason we didn't move forward and it was 2019 is the pretty much the Advent of of Co and we we just didn't feel because of the restrictions and we had our town meetings outside and everybody was afraid to come out and all that so it just wasn't fair to do something that major without people having an opportunity to speak uh so we delayed it and we ultimately passed it and ultimately in 2022 we actually got it passed through the legislature uh as a chter and you said you're continuing to you're not doing like a normal 10-e review cycle you're doing like annual tweaks or well we built in a 5year review and and a lot of towns build that in to to make it stay in Focus sometimes through 10 years uh I think the rapidity of changes in government I think it should be minimum 5 years uh because things change so quick you know you're sitting there you know how quickly things change so I don't know what's going to happen what the landscape is going to look like in four or 5 years but I can tell you it's going to be different so you need as a community you need to be able to react to that and either give your town manager your Town Administrator whatever you choose either more Authority less whatever but it should be looked at and uh how large was your committee and we had we had seven people we did not have any employees uh we had myself who was a farmer selectman at the time uh we had another farmer selectman uh at the time and um we had interested residents very interested residents who I want to say for the most part we didn't really know them they just wanted to give their time here's what one person told me you know I want to serve on the on the charter commission here for town because I want to see better government I don't want to be involved in anything else so don't keep me on a cheat list for oh that guy or girl was on the CH let's put him on the coner I just want to give back to my community and he was a he was an HR specialist so we valued what he brought to the table um and you get people like that you'll be surprised there will be people who want to be interested in this and about how long did the process take for the first go around and how many meetings did you have and uh I want to say upwards of 30 meetings um because we tried to interview all department heads we tried to interview elected official and it just you know when you have a committee you know this uh this was seven people sometimes you can't get a quorum you got to cancel a meeting come back you all that type of stuff so um yeah it took a while second time was a little uh quicker because people by the way I I was going to give you a link here um fall Tower meeting in tsoro 2021 article 6 uh an act to establish the position of town manager it's on video you can watch it it's the board uh the selectman explaining Point by Point what was in the town Chow so it's a good video for you it's an educ ational piece you might want to just let your chat committee know about that um so it's a it's a good document fee to look at okay those F on me 22 21 2022 yep 22 uh it's the uh town meeting of 2021 article 6 uh and it says an act establishing the town meeting position uh just look at up it's on YouTube I think so they they video Everything TS bro how did you recruit your um the folks that you appointed by selectman and but how did you how did you get the word out that this was happening and that that folks should apply lots of public meetings Oh you mean the committee itself uh Selman announced it four consecutive meetings I gave a deadline cuz obviously if you just let it you know uh and people did respond and you know they had a tough POS it was not an easy decision cuz some of those folks nobody knew I mean you know you you have a standard form I'm not sure your for but you get some identification of who they are and what they do professionally and all that kind of stuff but some of the board members didn't know who they were and frankly appreciated that yeah so just to kind of follow up on Mark's questions what was the frequency said 30 meetings what was the frequency meeting twice a month like every other Wednesday or you is it something like that kind of cadence you usually twice a month a little more in the winter you know a summer schedule is not good for anybody um so a little more in the winter but keep in mind you know this um people have other obligations you know it's your budget finance committee meeting all that your meetings so uh you got to be careful on that but it's when we when we really started we started slow but then as we got into the Outreach mhm uh we had a couple meetings in public sessions at a library for instance come and here what we're talking about and give us input and all that kind of stuff uh it's it starts to get a little busier as you're getting closer to creating the document and by the way you don't have to recreate the wheel here there are so many examples of town manager Charters Town Administrator special acts they're all over the place ums would have a great uh database for you to kind of look at and you can tweak it that's what this is all about this is not my Charter it's not Ting BR CH it's your CH so you guys got to figure out what you think is going to make sense for this [Music] time can you talk about what the time commitment is for the people out on the committee outside of the meetings um not too bad because we we had I mentioned we had a couple of fora Selectmen so we kind of knew the ropes we worked uh a lot with the administration uh for creating documents and those type of things uh we created a lot of our own but we had them look at it obviously to make sure we're not going a fou um but it's it's not a real big commitment outside of the meetings Okay um bringing up the the town manager versus Town administrative special act yeah I you know that's probably the biggest education piece outside of just what we know as a Town Administrator to be and then the special act which gives obviously more more Authority appointing and all the other authorities that come with that what in your in your mind what what's the greatest difference between a Town Administrator that's appointed by special act or versus a town manager or is it just it's I I hate to just use the word because it seems like it's more about the authority that the charter is giving or the ACT is giving then the position here's one thing here's one thing uh Gary here's one thing I heard during our discussion well we know what a manager is and we know what an administrator is we prefer the term administrator because a manager sounds like it's a dictator you know somebody's out there in charge of everything the selectman are cut out of it no they're not but that's one of those things so it became almost semantics yeah in terms of the discussion cuz we got the question Gary we had a Town Administrator yeah so people are saying why are we moving to a town manager what's wrong with the to and everybody liked the manager the administrator at the time and we said it's not about that so to your point some of the questions um most Chatters will kind of um eliminate some of the redundancies in government and it's very articulate and spelled out as to what the specific responsibilities yours is a little generic I've seen it they gave it to me uh but a a chart will specifically identify what the responsibilities of the manager is as well as what the responsibilities of the select board is because that's always a discussion you know where where where what Lane does the elected board take and what Lane does the chief administrative officer take and sometimes that gets blurry and sometimes causes problems internally in a community so that's clarified in the chter uh for instance one thing that and Bara I told you was a strong chatter one thing they had in there as a preamble the intent of this Charter is to keep the elected officials out of day-to-day operations of the community and you know some people didn't like that and said but they're elected they're supposed to be it yeah no I always thought that towns are operating it's different I get it but like a company you you've got a board of directors you've got a CEO I don't think the board of directors get involved in too much on a day-to-day basis of running a company I don't know what your budget is but this is a pretty big organization to run um and you know it gets it gets a little dicey sometimes when those when those definitions un clarified as to who's responsible for what so that's the primary difference in a chat versus a Town Administrator now my Town Administrator act and it's again it's online you can look at it uh was a fairly strong Town Administrator the weakness is they didn't eliminate a lot of elected people I had an elected Recreation commissioner elected Board of Health elected planning board elected assessors and it made it clumsy at times um it wasn't unmanageable but it made it a little clumsy the town chatter in Bara had a planning board school committee Library trustees that's it elected so it depends on how you want to tweak it and what makes sense for you guys uh and one of the overriding issues we hear it it's tough to get people involved you know we had elected positions in tingbo nobody ran no it's It's just tough to get people involved so let the professionals run the organization you know and and there's oversight you're the chief executive body in town there's always going to be oversight uh to either your manager or your Town Administrator who whatever decision you guys make going forward there's always going to be oversight you you don't get rid of a finance committee you don't get rid of town you might change the way town meeting is but you don't you're not looking to create a Town Council like some towns are moving to eliminates town meeting that would never happen in my town never happen in Burlington never happen in Bera uh but sometimes have moved to that any other questions or set no it's been helpful thank you if I just we need to speed dial what's that put them on speed dial oh that's good trust me um the um did you were there any were there any um elected boards or commissions that were um transitioned into appointed positions that you had experience with uh town clerk uh we did that um assessors we did it um and and by the way that's a good one assesses is not an easy job um I I just talked to a friend of mine in Burlington they're going through their we their uh tax setting tonight right uh good luck with that but um that's not an easy job uh neither is the Board of Health but let me tell you what happened in in Bara as we CH transition from a elected Board of Health to a anointed Board of Health I had had on that board cuz I was the appointing authority I had a doctor I had a nurse practitioner and I had somebody from the pharmacy industry it was a three member board and these people only wanted to give they were appointed and I remember the doctor told me I want to come on cuz I've got some issues with diseases and all that I think the Board of Health can be more aggressive in and all that but he said I'm not here for Life I'll give you three years I may consider another three but after that I'm going I just want to give back a little bit to the town and it's hard to get people like that um because you know the argument if you run for election you're likely running for election again unless you just get burnt out real quick and he this guy didn't want to do that he said look I'll give you my time I'll give you my expertise I want to give that time back to the town but then I'm out so it allows you to pick and choose some folks who have real expertise you know um anyway so so are you finding it easier to fill positions once they're appointed versus elected um I I'll I'll say probably 6040 it gives you a better a a better breath of candidates now sometimes you have to ring the bell a little bit and kind of recruit directly people you may know you've ran across uh people sitting on the library trustees who know people who you know I know this gal a guy who really wants to serve on a board doesn't want to run for office but would like to be on the board of health so you reach out that way um I'll open it up if anyone in the audience has any questions they want to ask been helpful am I way one second yeah GE s 62 I just like to understand the difference with the open town and the representative that you spoke about okay how does that work okay um you mind if I address them directly uh I don't want you to look at my back uh so an open town meeting uh open toown meeting you'll hear this is the purest formal government every resident in town could go to the open town meeting and vote yay and n on the Public Works budget the school budget the police budget whatever the problem is that in today's Society we're losing interest from people they really too busy well this is the the claim I'm too busy to get involved blah blah blah blah blah um so we've seen diminishing numbers show up at Overtown meeia in a lot of times not just my time T bro a lot of times you're seeing that so people started to think how can we get people who really committed to the town to come to town meeting stay for the town's budget and the school budget you know sometimes you see the school budget voted got a mass migration out cuz that part of their business is done that's not what we wanted uh we wanted to make sure that people who were there and this is the representative now we're elected and they're elected by Precinct and you got to go through a whole you got to talk to your town clerk about how to set that up and all that but those areas of town are represented by elected people and the attendance is greater than always over 80% cuz they're liquid people and you said a number whatever that number in Burlington we had 126 in Bara we had 240 big a time uh but we had 126 in Burlington and we routinely had 105 110 every time so and and people who are committed you know there's 126 of them in Burlington so we used to send them the warrant 3 weeks ahead questions call me call whoever so when you come to town meeting you're prepared you know what's what's on the agenda for the warrant and you're ready to vote doesn't mean we don't have a discussion we have good discussion healthy discussion sometimes not the way I wanted it to go you know that's how things work open town meeting um as I said I'm not down on it um I just see the changes coming that it's so hard to get people to commit to go to those and commit their time to go to those Town meetings unless it's a specific item like a school budget and I don't want to pick on schools could be a police station you voted those people who are interested come vote for that and say you know I got kids at home I got I got to go so that's the basic difference what's what's the the the time element used with that uh you know in the open I mean depends on what's there I mean the debate can go on but with the represent is that shorter or no no uh the key to that I hope you guys have is your moderator if you have a good strong moderator the moderator can move this stuff along and uh we I was fortunate in both Burlington and Bera we had a good good moderator and that person would I can remember uh you got some people upset because he said when somebody got up and asked a question he said we just heard that question now we'll move on so you know get how can I say this politely some people like to talk whether it's an open town medum or or representative Town Mee and they feel like they have to speak on every AIT um the moderat control thank you quick is kingsb an open town meeting yep so you have not moved to representative we have not we have not we did not yet because we had the struggle of getting the town manager through but people people are talking to us about maybe we that I I I am not sure there may be a similar demographic I'm not sure Kings will go to representa name and address oh Rob hou5 sorry thank you okay thank you we good yeah thank you Mr chairman again uh Ryan knows where I am Jim knows where I am you got any questions they'll give you my contacts and like I said I'm a I'm a geek I love municipal government I love people thinking about moving forward with their with their structure and uh anything I can do to help thank you thanks Bob thanks right we talking so you want to talk about the document you wrote yeah so just moving on um this is a you know really a first look draft um the one I sent out later kind of got rid of some language that um the document that was created in 2017 a final report of the town government study that was done for Littleton in 2007 um didn't actually create a charter of any kind it was just a report so I removed all language that was referencing a charter because we we don't have one of any kind so um but other than that I think this was kind of a first swag at this uh I I I did research about about uh 12 other communities um that went through the charter process got a lot lot of good ideas from them um put a lot of stuff in that we had talked about but I I know I didn't capitulate everything and I I think we there's maybe some things in here that we we maybe were not interested I just I you know I was trying to remember some of the discussions that we had um on where we wanted to go and that's why you know I I had put in the Town Administrator Town manager form of leadership town meeting open representative um and then the everything kind of we just talked about but there's there's other things in there as well that I I think there's something missing I think we should add something you think we really don't need I think we should take it away the budgeting and finance part we're pretty we're pretty locked with our we do pretty well with our financial policies um but I I put it in there because that's such a major part of our yearly and how we do things um but uh I think I think I covered a lot of the things that Bob even discussed but I want to make sure that I there's not other stuff we want in there if I may I do think it's important to have the budget and Finance in there because that's it's codified it needs to be included in the charter just so that you know it may be the exact same way we do it now yeah but if it's it needs to be stated in the charter I think not necessarily just things that are changing just this is our this is our Mo this is you know our Sops or whatever you want to you know yeah we it and trying to be Forward Thinking a little bit I I you know I did acknowledge you know sustainability and housing and climate change but incorporating that into the charter it would be very difficult at this time but I I wanted to make sure that we um it needs to be a flexible document that's why I like the idea of every five years at least reviewing it because things change so fast um that we we want to keep this you know streamline to a um if how it directly is going to affect the structure of our time government and I think if we get too far out there when we start talking about housing and and all the other things we kind of lose that piece of it which are all very important to the town but I don't know if they're is important to the structure of our town government and what we're trying to accomplish um so that's kind of why I I put it in here but I didn't put it as one of the things that really need to be heavily discussed it's a non- goal right as a non- goal oh yeah um things I've left open you know I did put in yellow how how we're going to how how we want this to look are we going to do all at large 7 to n large whatever we get we all review um and we we pick through we maybe we we we who knows how many candidates we're going to get for this but I I think if we just did a simple scale one to five and each one of us grades a person from one to five um we could do it that way and then we add up the scores and these are the seven these are the nine people that we take um or do we get more aggressive when we we appoint I mean we can St would you would you just want resumés submitted as a as as points of interest or do you want me to see whether the Collins Center actually has a a template for for a u I think so an application anything like that which would you prefer you know I think once we get this you know solid how we all want it that goes that goes out that maybe gets posted through the Callin Center or how we want to do it and then everyone can apply looking at this if it's something they'd even be interested in getting involved in and then from there um yeah I think we have to have some type of a template okay where as it relates to this so that people can speak to a little bit of this because if you don't have maybe someone just hits on you know they're very strong in budgeting and finance maybe they're very strong in certain maybe they strong Municipal background I we just spoke listening to Bob you had a few different you know uh prior select board members that probably brought a lot of knowledge to the table and something something like so I think the rephrasing the question is do we want to use our standard application process for boards or do we want to reach out to see if there's something more specific I'm fine with our standard one I think as long as this goes with so they understand so I think this is basically the post of the board that we're creating right and in your application you respond to this yeah kind of yeah this is basically the the charter the charter yeah it is and it's speaking to the commitment the timing issues I want to make sure I put in there which I obviously have xed out cuz I don't know I mean are we are we I was trying to be realistic with this and I was looking at getting this to a town meeting in 2026 May 2026 this would be the you know that I think is a reasonable a year to 15 months before it goes in front of town meeting um but that like I said that that's something that can change um so we want to have timing on there so that the board knows or the committee knows how how many times they need to meet and what what our expectation is um as a select board um so really our discussions outside of what you guys want to add or take away is the membership piece if that's an open I think we want to use our open application process um using this as this is what the committee looks like this is the responsibility this is the time commitment I think that's a a start um would would probably work um I haven't seen that what the Colin Center uses I I mean I don't know I don't know if they use any they I think our if if people can write their their resume or application to this document and we get we can get a good idea I think a feel for what they so I I personally I think our standard application is probably good enough um and we can use this as something for them to C questions from it will be faster right because we can basically agree on more or less on the form of this tonight and post it um I think your your timing is off slightly and I think you know the committee really starts in January 25 right yeah I would say like our December 16th meeting we appoint the committee I think it's December 16th we'd have a meeting right okay and we appoint the committee and then they can start in January um I would just we do need to add more like what the time commitments are to like we're expecting you know twice monthly meetings for 18 months or whatever it is just so people know what they're in for when they apply so under the timing issues the expectation that you expectations yeah um and I like the you know and that's the bo the committee would actually have to discuss it makes sense more and more over the the seasonal you do lose a lot of people over the summer there's no doubt about that the only thing I'm going to counter I guess is that he made the point that in order to get the word out there and Cameron you asked the question in order to get it out there um just kept getting out there over the course of four meetings to Yeah well yeah we've been talking about it for a while just having something having something that we can specifically talk about because we've kind of been well even and and that's just this meaning we we we're going to get 120 views of this probably right so it's more if you know people that would be interested what you think would be a value added to the reach out to them and get them to apply um let us all know we can put I don't disagree with that but his point was there were a couple people that applied that yeah but how do you reach weren't weren't in any of our circles say you know so and those are you know having that perspective people that aren't tied to any of us I'll say you know just put that out there but um yeah I think is is valuable I mean depending upon what their resume I mean don't want to just have somebody that isn't out cider if you will um for the sake of having somebody that's not connected to anyone but yeah um so I think when this is settled we put a little blurb in the newsletter as its own item absolutely and maybe we do a reverse we do we do the text that this thing is being formed and like I mean I get a text every day that you know there's a fire band again today so yeah we can put this out and say you know through that same mechanism um yeah sure um the makeup of the board is kind of discussed it's a typical board you have a chair clerk Vice chair um I didn't put the clerk responsibilities in here because I think we had discussed a lot of the work um the minutes being done by tax workof a tax workout program or something so it takes some of that burden off because you want everyone to be focusing on the work at hand not getting bogged down and what if the minutes were on every um but that was the cence um if I could I wanted to just maybe discuss the what this isn't section a little more this is speak um I understand the intent um I worry that by saying it's not this it's not this and not this we leave it open to but what about that and that um and I wonder if maybe we can word this more in in terms of this is a this is a structural review and not an aspirational document for you know Town goals and vers which I think is what you were getting at yeah it's hard it was hard to word I yeah I really was trying to um not going to say steal borrow language from other towns that had it but a lot of them didn't capitulate what you're trying to say maybe you can help with that kind of putting putting in um you know what the what it actually is and what it isn't it um and maybe expound on what you're trying to say there a little bit um you know I talked it does speak to seeks to recommend changes to ensure littleton's government meets the current and anticipated needs of our residents and is responsive to the challenges of today and tomorrow um but it yeah trying to trying to why would maybe even if we move that sentence to the right following immediately after that today and tomorrow bit yeah I just when I first read it I was like why why is it you know I get why not but why not just these things like there's a million things that don't belong in the document why are we calling out you know these you know a couple things specifically yeah um is there some is there some it immediately made me think oh do other towns have it in there and we're like trying to exclude it ahead of time um which I don't think is the case at all right yeah right um yeah you know I did speak to not not limited to this list but true we do want to focus on some of this is very important and I think the some of the difficulty I was having was right out of the gate if this committee is recommending a town say a town manager form of government well what does that encapsulate does that change a lot of these other things that we have on here immediately so we I think it's going to be um that I think Bob put a little bit of it at ease because he says it not necessarily because Town manager or a special act with a Town Administrator they they seem to have a lot of the same Powers if that's how we go um but I just didn't know how that was going to affect the rest of these bullets M mhm um so but I think that that's something the committee is going to have to work through and and discuss and you know if that's the recommendation what comes with that recommendation what are all the things that have to change that come with that um where we say board's committees does it need to be boards committees commissions I was trying to all the various names of all the various organizations we have and I think that covers them all working groups I was thinking about working groups but they're by definition ad hoc right yeah um I did add the division of authorities between Town manager/ toown Administrator whe in the select board because I think that's obviously critical I yes um you know that's pretty much um like I said I some of this was added from our discussions but a lot of this um I just kind of looking at some of the tried andrue documents um from recent Town Charters that I saw throughout the the Commonwealth um and it varied so greatly I can't even tell you how much but uh seems like the further west I got the more it was just really some real basic things that were were well pasted so um but there was some good ideas in there but a lot of it is some of the towns that are similar to us that we're going through like some of those towns may have just established a charter because they didn't have a charter so it was somewhat rudimentary because they just wanted to again almost codify it so put it into a charter so that they have something to work on no for sure that's probably true um where we don't have a chart that's one of the things just going through you know the name is it is it's not a charter Review Committee or commission um it's we're looking at the potential of establishing this right so we're going to decide I guess tonight um Al what's that the title of it yeah I mean it's it's it's either Littleton Charter committee or Littleton Charter commission yeah not a review and the only distinction that I'm aare between a committee and a commission is a committee can have basically one of us on it at the federal level a committee can involve typically has legislators on it whereas a commission doesn't have legislators on it so we would do a chart Littleton Charter commission what you're saying which would open the opportunity for anyone full open yeah and I think most communities that do this call a commission to to them you know a broader yeah I think that yeah I mean that's that's the that's just flavor to me it's it's the dressing on the windows it's really the meat of the I you know for sure we change that yeah um because the words do mean something so I think the commission probably makes more sense in our regard where we don't already have a charter right um but this let's get to the bullet piece so so the only so I I'm fine with all of this um if we think um i' change the date to January 2025 as a start and then we can the rest of if May 2026 is doable then I'm fine with all of that too I'm I'm not comfortable with January 2025 I'm comfortable with doing the appointments in January but I'm not comfortable with getting them running in January we can say no earlier say earlier Thanksgiving we've got Christmas we got new year you know I'd rather not commence work earlier taken since when we were Incorporated yeah I mean I thought it was important with dates here maybe maybe the start dat are important I think dates are important I yeah a deadline for applications sometime a date in January and then do the appointment and then they get to work once we appoint them within that within a month or something yeah okay so we want to do appointments like at our first meeting in January that time frame I'm you're letting it I think we get we put the deadlines just after the first year like a week into the year okay and then we do we we have an opportunity to review pull people in if we decide to do that um over the course of a meeting or two so appointments and all likelihood would be at a meeting in February our first meeting in feu my going on I think that's going to make the May date hard yeah that's what yeah mean I was trying to send it around town meeting but this can be pushed to November town meeting so I don't want to restrict these things typically take a year to 18 months for us to try to yeah well and if it needs to go to a ballot and then then it's going to take okay so I think in terms of how many meetings we have in between all due respect to those of to the gallery here um and I appreciate you're here but I don't think it's going to widen our net a whole lot to repeat this four times over the course of four meetings right we're not going to meet we're not going to the same people are watching what are they watching now so I think you know this is a lot of Word of Mouth this is a lot of sure the broadcaster maybe we can get in there yeah um it's it is what it is but it is mostly Word of Mouth trying to get people that we think might be interested in this and then hopefully we grab like Bob said you get a few people that get pulled in that we didn't have any idea yeah I think you know I think our Outreach efforts should be really intense over the next few weeks but I I don't necessarily think the number of meetings we have in between is we get on with lctv I can get on with Mark and we can do a quick that's another Avenue to say here's what we're looking for we're recruiting this this is maybe read a little bit of this once it's done and Polished so then back to kind of Chuck's point I'm I mean this says the the goal is to wrap up by May of 26 is now the goal more may of 27 or November of 20 well if it needs to go to a ballot or we going to do a ballot in November of 26 well we could we could I guess there have it we could have it on the there'll be a ballot special I thought it had to go to town meeting and then ballot yes right oh and only goes to ballot if it passes the town meeting and that's why I was trying to get it get it you can do you can put them back to back they can go together right it doesn't have to be like separated by week or months true so but we could also but I guess I'm saying like the only thing 2 meeting we want to go to yeah we can put something on it um I'm just thinking that running an extra election midterm election so maybe maybe the goal is November of 26 yeah okay um I'd include action unlimited we don't have a newspaper but you know one of the reasons maybe he went through four meetings because I don't know if TBO still has a newspaper or not but um maybe there was a higher likelihood that people were going to see it yeah are you from Litton are you interested in town government yeah you know but I mean unlimited does post a lot of you know like calendar events and do right yeah so I yeah I think we can pick a meeting in January we do appointments I don't care if it's the first one or this you know whatever the second one is on our news yeah okay um um as far as membership I'm more in favor of everyone at large just because it's not saying that we don't have a select board member on the committee but I don't know that we designated one of us necessarily to do it I don't see why one of us can apply if if we right so choose right yeah I think that's I think that's probably the right way to do it everybody's on and I and I don't want like and I'm not in favor of having a finance or school committee appointing someone because then you're going to potentially get someone that's really not invested in this but it's their and they step back board change yeah I did see a lot you know probably half of the of the commissions had that you know school committee appointment will have one seat but it was more so the ones that were much more directed not as broad as we're trying to create a chart was more uh some of the charter review stuff they were really P isolating down to like one to three items that they were so it made a little bit more sense if it was there's might have couple of them were just like budgeting and finance process so made sense to have a finance person for sure having said that I don't think it's a bad idea that you know go to a finance committee meeting and say hey we're doing this if anyone's interested go to a school committee meeting and say Hey you know have no other reason to get audience right you get another audience and then let's get this on all all the you know the board's agendas this document is one of their items that they can just look at and say give out to the members each of us can get the word out if they don't want to do it get the word out you know that's another way to get the word out yeah we can yeah we can split up the boards and do that so that being said it's a good idea probably to have a little bit more time like you had said into January to get all that I just I don't want to shoor it in so we can get it by this date it just it's taking this long and even amongst us we've taken this long to get to this point right I'd rather not yeah be Hasty um 7 to N I think it's still a good we don't have to say seven or nine I think s to nine if we get nine applicants that we're all comfortable with or nine nominees and let's let's do it yeah if we come s sure yeah but it is s or9 not 7 to9 correct um it's interesting because I did see a lot of them had the seven to nine and there were few that had eight really yeah I mean I they just never because they're not voting on um like you would it's not like the standard they're pretty much in sync when when I was looking at a lot of the votes I'm trying to think of one that wasn't unanimous cuz the board worked so hard together those this the commissions that they they were pretty much unanimous all the way through they would discuss things out and then they would vote on it so I think um there was very few votes that weren't weren't unan so I don't think the eight thing would ever come into a play with a 44 but we can just nominate seven or nine I mean what's the yeah eight I mean the quorum's going to be five either way whether it's eight or nine right so looking at our proposed meeting schedule we could do this either on the 13th or the 27th the 27th will be a meeting uh surrounded by budget meetings so I'm not sure uh how much budget talk there'll be at the 27th meeting to isolate this from from the rest this might have to be a special meeting where if we're just doing appointments yeah then it would have to be like uh be Tuesday February 3rd that's because the me because the 13th is or the 20th is Martin Luther King day so yeah so February 3rd that's that's so if it can't happen we just move it I mean I I think that's a good a good goal okay if we get four applicants and we got to think of another plan right okay okay um all right back to the meat of this that's what's important K what else do you have um the fourth bullet y um I would suggest we change that to consideration of dis solving or restructuring boards committees and commissions okay without saying you know it's got to be redundant or outdated or judged could just be in so get rid of the word redundant or outdated yeah I would and I think restruct should be part of it part of the purview let go and then I had a question it says there's there's been no comprehensive review of the structure of town government in many years yeah but we get just got a report that was a structural review it wasn't really comprehensive oh you're talking about the department of local Services yeah yeah Rue are we just thinking that that's that's not comprehensive I mean I think the last comprehensive review would have been the 2007 report but I don't know we can get rid of the word confer you probably you know I I um I think that's a good tool for it should be actually one of the things that we hand to any any M the most recent they absolutely should get that report right okay I'm just going to give you my comments because they're all grammar more than anything else I mean those were all those were all from Western Mass I I was tell earlier I go it's amazing the further I got out west some of the the grammatical stuff got speak a little differently evidently I I other than what the the only thing that I really said I said like we should add what the expected time commitment is for the members yeah right and and the rest of it is just okay a grammar more than he start saying a at the end of things I've gone too far west if we start or so um okay so we're going to go out large 7 to N9 we'll just [Music] um yeah any other CH just send them over so you see everybody and we'll I'll uh okay especially the grammatical stuff and then we'll do you want to write up a little paragraph for the newsletter to go up yeah when's our next newsletter uh you need to submit it in the next couple days yeah so okay I'll work with you on that okay thank you okay Wednesday later it was uh the 15th that was uh anything else on this or we ready to move on I think so okay yeah I think similar to what you said Mark there are some gratical things but that's all could be cleaned up it is interesting looking at the 2007 report you know R just that there at that time there was no flavor no interest in a to manager um and there was no what was the other or a charter or a charter you know there was there was no interest in the town manager or or a town Charter and there was no assistant Town Administrator right I mean it was a different it was so it's just a different time 20 almost 15 years ago it was very different so I think this is probably a really good thing to and maybe that comes out of this again maybe this group puts together and say you know what I there's some things in here that obviously maybe our board's committee ideas change or appointed but maybe the town government stays the same it's not recommended at this time it works it works if it happens it happens but that's that's what's going to be interesting at at that point in time it could have been um political it could have been the person that's sitting in the in that seat right now we don't want to be a time manager yeah Fair it could it could have been I I'll take a few quick comments you got up first yeah I don't want to see you talk to him s 672 great Roy Mr chairman I just want to make a comment and that is this document that you have for this Charter whenever you finalize it and you get the application you need to tell us then and there this is what it is and here's the deadline date for you to submit if you want to be considered on the commission or whatever you're going to call yep thank you thank you rob has5 Jenifer Street I just wanted to to go back to something Bob said and what he said was their first attempt failed right and that was after 30 meetings so I want to be I just want to make a suggestion time is not of the essence to do this what is of the essence Essence is to do it well agreed and to take our time and do it right and doing it right means getting out into the community through the process and so when I think of calendars I'm not thinking of town meetings like you guys do right I'm thinking of families and time and when are we going to get people together to talk about this not the commission that's going to do the work but the community that's going to have to be engaged to help and hear about the work well and so I don't think you really want to be I'm all in favor of deadlines sure we we all need a goal to hit but but the goal to hit is is if all you're doing is hitting a goal to the to the exclusion of getting your community engaged in the process you're you're going to lose a town meeting right we've learned that multiple times in the last 2 years we don't want to do that with this we want to pass it because whatever it is is because our community accepts it and wants it that was all thank you so maybe we put in the goal well we can we can we can extend time well my comment was really around the May yeah yeah I think the May is that's what it me and Community engagement when you haven't gone through two cycles of agreed okay so moving on paint stewardship sure um if I could introduce Tom come on up um so uh this is Tom Irwin he comes to us from Dalton Mass uh that's from the western part of the state is west have a town Charter are you sure it's a meth do you have a Town Administrator or so we were looking over your handout and there was some things we readed lined but uh was that a gramar issue just just very quickly Tom is this is a project that he's been working on and retirement and um it um it's something that he presented to us we have a letter uh of of support for this that um uh he's asking the board to sign on to tonight um so um we just wanted to um you know he's been traveling throughout the state I believe with doing this correct so um uh again this is a a really interesting project that he's working on I'll turn it over to Tom to uh explain before we go any further I don't believe Dalton Mass is a real place it's actually actually in New York it's far enough West it's yeah basically New York I I truly thought I knew every town in Massachusetts never heard a no it's probably going to get served by this route to rail that we're okay actually all currency stock is manufactured in Dolphin for the entirety of North America wow that's right just a little fact to that's interesting so good evening and thank you for this opportunity to speak about paint stewardship as you know my name is Tom when I'm from Dalton and I'm retired but in my retirement I wanted to participate in projects that had potential to help future Generations so as a member of Dalton's Waste Management committee when it became clear the paint stewardship it begin proving the waste problem most Massachusetts towns face which save Town's money and positively impact the climate change problem I became an advocate paint stewardship as you probably know is a program where unwanted latex or oilbased paint which the the paints that are accepted are in your first handout can be returned to any participating paint retail store any day they're open without a disposal cost and without regard for where the paint was purchased or when it was purchased this program is voluntary for retailers and for transfer stations as you can see in your second handout retailers of Vermont in bold come and go from the program and Suits their business the cost to Consumers is a75 C to Dollar Echo fee per gallon paid at time of purchas that fee is only $1.75 not 375 for 5 gallons they're not trying to make a profit the collected latex is hauled to reprocessing plants by the paint manufacturers re Blended to like new condition and sold for at most 50% of original cost to entities such as Habitat Humanity or restore the oilbased paints are most often used as co- Fuel and co- fuels in cement plants where the ash becomes part of the product concrete as a result these materials do not end up in landfills this program has been working in 10 States including our neighboring states of Connecticut Rhode Island Maine Vermont and New York as they say sometimes here in the East uh which just late to the Patty the key benefits to Littleton first it will be a service Littleton residents will value notably roughly 40% of the paint returned to paint retailers just over our borders in adjoining states with the law is coming from Massachusetts residents also of 1100 residents dropping off items at household hazardous was Day events across the state 90% signed petitions asking their representatives to become supporters of this legislation this suggests that 90% of littleton's residents with unwanted paint in their basements and I'll bet there're many would deeply appreciate having this law second will present no cost to Littleton or any municipality and will decrease household hazardous waste day costs freeing RDP money for Littleton to address other important Solid Waste issues and third paint stewardship as a model since was constructed by through cooperation will be a great model for future stewardship legislation that will address larger items such as mattresses solar panels rechargeable lithium batteries and packaging the resolution being considered tonight which is your third handout is consistent with the state's plans there is no arm twisting the MMA as a supporter has noted in their testimony to the environment and natural resources committee which is your fourth handout the mass DP and their 2030 Solid Waste master plan which is your fifth handout calls out product DPR in general and paint DPR in particular as key contributors to moving the state towards the goal of zero waste a particular note that this master plan calls for a 30% reduction in waste by 2030 and a 90% reduction by 2050 and without stewardship programs I find it hard to imagine how we can possibly achieve these goals fortunately support for this legislation is brought paint manufacturers and paint retailers who work together with consumer groups and state agencies over a period of 6 years to craft this law our supporters Support also comes from as know and mentioned the 90% of people with unwanted paint in their basements the 28 reps and 10 12 centers from both parties who sponsor or co-sponsor this bill and if you look at your sixth handout the 99 municipalities the date that have passed similar resolutions or endorsements so what is next legislators made it clear that in order for paint stewardship to receive serious consideration and the subor of leadership to make it the law municipalities must demonstrate that addressing the solid waste issue beginning with paint stewardship is a municipal priority in July 78 municipalities which represented 27% of the state's population had made statements of support this caused the bill to be considered but did not compel sufficient leadership support to send the bill to the floor for a vote more support was clearly needed therefore with this in mind and since Littleton residents will appreciate this Law And since this law will save Littleton money and since reducing waste is critical to our future I respectfully request the Littleton select board add their valued endorsement of paint stewardship by passing their supportive resolution I thank you for your consideration of this Quest and your attention thank you I I guess the only question I have is um why not why I I'm trying to so I have to assume that everybody that you've come and spoke to I can't I'm trying to figure out the reason why they would say no we don't like this program is there some cost to it that I'm missing um and why why wasn't there enough support to get a bill what would be what at the legislative what was why would there be a no at the leg there is no no at the legislative level there just no yes okay and I'm not trying to be fous uh the issue is is the standard problem of 7,000 bills being logged at the beginning of the session and only 4% of them being passed and they only pass those things that say Boku money or have screaming hordes U pounding at the doors and um it only saves $3 million collectively which is great for all of us individually but it's chump change for the state and to date there hasn't been the uh any evidence that the public was really aware Right In fact when I went to I went to um farmers markets to collect signatures and I did so uh down in um uh Westfield close enough to the Connecticut border that there was not uncommon to have Connecticut people come up 40% of the people in Connecticut already have the law but did not know that they had the law so it's an issue of just awareness of uh of the law is really what has been the impediment but since uh over the last two years as I've been working on this uh the flow of paint to our adjoining States is actually inre inreased so there the the the desire is there and your resolution makes that clear to the uh legislature and this is the seventh legislative session in which this uh bill has been uh submitted to for consideration okay through the chair this um so if let's just say that it it doesn't pass the next one or the next one is there something Littleton can do it bylaw wise the you're in the same pickle that Dalton's in okay uh I mean I wouldn't be here today if I could have done it by with a bylaw I would have just done it said Thank you and U we been been on our way but we need the state the the issue is it's an antitrust issue if that 75 cents we collect as an echo fee which really kind of fully gives us the true cost of paint it's that 75 cents that uh a class action suit an Anti-Trust suit could be brought against the nonprofit that the paint retailers have or paint manufacturers have created that could just be crushed by that they would just be bankrupted overnight so that's why it has to be a state law thank you and to one other little point that you mentioned I uh I was worried that this sounded too good to be true so I went to Vermont New York and Connecticut and quizzed um retailers and quized consumers to make sure that this thing did not have a snag that I was unaware of of and I nobody complained which made me feel more comfortable could you clarify where the fee goes oh it goes straight to paint care those are the guys are responsible that's the nonprofit set up by the paint manufacturers to handle all the logistics of getting that paint from The Collection points to the reprocessing plants and getting the reprocessing done it make sure that um if you know there's a third-party audit that's done annually for each state that goes to the D of each state for a review it pays the state to be able to do that review as well as to doing the third party audit um and there are administrators for each state so that there is somebody at the end of the phone when the retailer calls and say hey look I got a full tote um and the responsiveness has been great anywhere from two to four business days between the call and the truck showing up with the empty tote and taking the full away and and um how that 75 cents is enough that's not something that's going to be upped in a year or two to pay for the expenses or I can only share history um in Connecticut in 2010 when the law was passed the fee was set at 75 in 2024 the fee in Connecticut is 75 the same is true with Rhode Island and Maine in Vermont um my understanding is is that the fee was initially set at 9 but we Massachusetts um and New Hampshire apparently return enough paint to uh Vermont that they had up their fee as of May 1st this year to $135 hopefully when New Hampshire passes their law next session and Massachusetts passes our law next session um that fee can drop back to 9 great I think it's all great so yeah thank you very much for doing this it's my pleasure there was a request um to um sign a letter of support so there is a motion now usually there but now behind you Mr clerk everyone everyone ready for a motion yeah I think so move that the select board vote to endorse a resolution and support of paint stewardship legislation second move my Matthew second by Karen all those in favor thank you thank you thank you very much appreciate your support you seen the episode of Dirty Jobs where this they go to a plant in California that's doing all the recycling and creating the the gallons upon gallons of the paint for these uses that you just stated yep we fortunately also have a reprocessing plant in Handover Massachusetts really it's called recolor and um they will be able to expand hopefully when this legisl passes great be great so thank you very much for appreciate you um do we want to send a copy of this to Jim and Jamie yeah I would appreciate that very much that' be excellent are you are you visiting communities around us as well those those already signed right they have lanter's already signed Harvard's already signed good work thank you thank you very much appreciate it appreciate you thank doing it good put uh public input Mark 575 etel I just have to say I bought that paint at um uh Habitat for Humanity ReStore and perfectly good paint oh good works fine good great awesome thank you anything else okay uh members update nothing to me here um Veterans Day uh just thank everybody that came out uh for the ceremony I did talk to Jim about getting it a little more advertised because I you know with um through the John our our veterans agent just getting at least up on his site or at least out on the um because I did have a lot of people asking me if it was going on this year um and thank you for the rotary once again for putting on a a lunch for the friends and families um after the Veterans Day event uh tread I I was um attended a tread meeting um for the uh breakout of of the monies and where they're going to go to what individual and households need need the most assistance um just a reminder that tread is heavily dependent on donations so it's just one of those things you know that we I think as as um elected leaders in town can continue to reach out to communities community members businesses to it's it's a it's a cause it's a great need to um you know we had $28,000 I think that we divided amongst many families and it's I think we can do better I think we can we can really make a this program can make a a very large impact so that's all I have um staying with the Vets um friends of Litton veterans held a fundraiser trivia night on Saturday night how'd that go Gary we are back on top of the pile We Are the Champions I should have wonn my gold medal but I friends of Littleton veterans W the past couple of years unseating uh Mr Houston and Mr Wilson's team of never asked for directions but they took back the title this year but it was a great night um you know a lot of fund was had and raised some nice funds for for the veteran services um staying in the trivia night space um Parks Rec parks recreation community education is holding a trivia night on December the 5th it's being held at the Outlook restaurant at um Thea ski area and uh it is being held to support holiday helpers so it's big fundraiser to try to raise some money to help um pay for gifts and a h it's a huge program it's it's it's awesome they do a great job so if you're looking to challenge never ask for directions too small a team uh but that is December 5th and I believe it's at uh 7 o'cl they doing cocktails and dinner and can buy off the the Outlook menu and then uh trivia starts at 7:45 and it's going to have live music a lot of uh local businesses are sponsoring the music and um different different components so it's uh should should be a great event does Adam have anything going on this weekend he does um so this weekend Littleton High School is um the performance opens on Friday night for the man who came to dinner and that's 7 o'clock on Friday night 7:00 on Saturday night and 2: p.m. on Sunday check me if I'm run um I'm sure he will thank you for reminding yeah I would definitely R to the dogghouse um so tickets are available at the door or you can go online um you can find them on Facebook or um just call Adam directly I can give you this number right now thank you um not much I was out of town most of the most of the time it felt like between uh our our last meeting in tonight but um the clean Lakes committee met and I I was able to dial into that one um they're continuing to work on their budget um I think they're they're getting in close to the Finish Line on that um they're going to be going in front of the um parks and W commission to talk to them about working out a funding source through parks and wreck for um Long Lake projects um and they'll be coming uh to talk to us as well M have to throw one more in there it's another shout out to Rotary uh rotary had a um a food drive at uh in front of Dons for a couple of weekends um leading up for Thanksgiving and they did kind of a specific list for folks to to um support Lo and fishes and they collected just shy of I think 450 lb of food they were kind of hoping to get to 500 but didn't quite get there they're just shy so um once again rotary stepping up and and you know this isn't necessarily a fundraiser but they did get some funds as well to help support loes and Fishes so it's just Littleton Community Helping Littleton folks and surrounding communities so okay um so I was also at the Veterans Day thank you for everyone that uh attended um that there was given the lack of notice there was a pretty good crowd um and it was nice that it wasn't rainy so that was a extra bonus um I have been working with the affordable housing Trust on a couple grants as you might remember we received a um Grant from the state for $120,000 to use for um emergency home repairs for the and um improvements you you know agent Place type Improvement so the affordable housing trust is finalizing the the application for that Grant now uh we're waiting on the contract from the state um and then we'll be once we have that in place I'll um we'll be ready to hit the ground on that um I'm also working with uh uh Miss Houston on um some other Grant potential Grant applications and I will actually be reach out to Our Town Administrator to write a letter for support on one of these grants shortly um I wanted to I spent seems like forever ago but I spent most of the day at the polls for election day um and I want to say that Diane runs an incredibly smooth machine um you know whenever there was a complaint or a problem between her and Andrew it was addressed very quickly um and I I spent I think I spent probably 10 hours there and at the polls that day and like Mr Sanders and several other people were there way longer than I was so thank you for everyone that volunteered and help um help um I um signed up for the mass Champions Institute which were reviewing complete streets type work um I met with uh DP director yanle today to talk about uh what we're doing with our complete streets and I'm going to meet with a I'm hoping to go to the bpack meeting tomorrow and get them to start championing a um update to the complete streets priority map um the conservation uh commission held a event at durable to recognize all the uh land stewards for all the work that they do in town um thank you for everyone that does all the I mean they do an incredible amount of work to keep our Trails safe and um um I also wanted to call out Jim O'Neal who recently stepped down after I don't know how many years of being the Head trail Steward oh no yeah um and uh it's big shoes someone's going to fill I think Lysa um and Dustin are going to kind of Step Up in that role good luck to both of them um and I'm sure they're always looking for more volunteers so reach out I was at the planning board meeting last week um and there's a lot of discussion going on around what happens to uh the 31 shat Street build the Shad Street Building once in the Lao development and we need to kind of start moving that process along and figure out what's going on um for them and others there's a lot of interest in the building and what what are plan is and we kind of have to step up soon so what is our plan well I think we need to come up with a plan okay right um so what 18 almost two years ago now we did a we put out the RFI um we did a feasibility study on the building before we built before the senior center was done um so we need to update the feasibility study with whatever departments are left in the building and figure out after between the senior center and park and and the school moving out what we're going to do so so is that something we're going to do with like outside money or is that something that's I don't know how we're going to update it rather so okay uh we we're reaching out to the uh two who did it before uh because they're also under contract for for the senior Senate oh perfect so well we'll have a an offline conversation okay uh that's all I have do you have any updates on the other projects in town uh I get sneak in complete streets have you been up Foster Street lately I yes there's a lot of work going on yeah they're W they're the bike path the they're from balam all the way up to Taylor they're definitely work is underway can jump in before you do please I'm staying staying on Foster um I don't know if you guys are getting phone calls as well I've gotten a few phone calls about what's happening behind Foster Street uh in the um two 245 um Robert Long's property yeah um there been a lot of clearing going on there's a there's a gravel road going out back and there's um there's quite a bit of uh equipment down there so um Sanctuary no no no the property the the train station right right right okay there's been no permits pulled or anything so just just to make you aware I I add that inquiry people had asked me about it so um that is uh that space is being used as the staging area for the Mast doot work that's taking place on on Foster Street right now so that's so he's leasing that to to Mast to be able to use it temporarily okay and they they they cleared a l quite a bit yeah that's well that's saw some of the confusion because I I did see some chatter on Facebook and I had even chimed I go that's not M do that's not their land but now I understand it yeah okay so they were and yeah they needed a lay down area yeah thanks for that clarification I was curious myself when I I heard about so on the on the town side there's a school building committee Sherling tour is is everybody we can get to that I just wanted to let everybody else go is every Matt okay okay sure tomorrow night um Shan building committee is meeting uh from 6:00 to 6:30 there'll be a uh building tour beginning at 6:30 p.m. and then we're going to be doing a question and answer after that so um at the um at the business meeting um there'll be a vote taken to recommend the preferred schematic report uh so from the last update that was provided at town meeting we were looking at three options uh one of them was a rehabilitation of the existing um school and the two others were uh basically to build a new school at the lower field um and um they um at at our last meeting a recommendation was made from the design subcommittee for um what they're what they're calling the Upper field option just a little further away it's Cooper field in the back thank you yes right right um and uh so the recommendation or the the request would then to be moving forward with that um at our meeting tomorrow that was referred to as 3.2 that town meeting so there's been progress on that and uh I think for um tomorrow's meeting we have about 30 people already signed up for the tour and and information session and just you know there there are I know the finance team has been meeting a lot trying to work some of those the numbers and discussion down from that from town meeting so hopefully we have better news a closer as we Move Along [Applause] mhm okay uh nothing else we'll move on to uh do you have well I mean I can just review uh quickly uh what I shared the the other day the uh the nooba Valley Medical Center the Chiefs uh within the area that are being affected that they continue to meet and review a number of different data points that uh that could be affecting uh Services uh one of the things that uh that came out that the chief had as he's uh continues his his data um um data logging with things specific to Littleton uh the Chiefs saw about a 7 minute increase from 20 to 27 minutes in the time at the hospital over the past 457 transports which is between August and OCT October uh this uh which resulted in about 50 hours of cumulative time that was uh that was tied up uh with personnel with that uh dph did did did provide a grant for $250,000 and um the and the Chiefs are continue to request uh a additional funds that will because of the overtime that many that all communities have been been affected and about expanding the eligibility for for for the fund right now it's strictly for it's really for training and purchasing of Technology upgrades but um uh they did say that you could buy an ambulance with it that will that 250,000 will only get you a half an ambulance quite honestly and uh but unfortunately but it has to be spent by December 31st of 2025 and you you're two years out at least before you even see the ambulance see the ambulance so and it has to be and you have to have take possession of the ambulance and spend the money by December of 2025 get that green communities uh Diane Dickerson who uh is has worked uh very very hard on it she submitted the town's FY 24 green communities annual update which is IR required um we have uh King King Street comment some an update uh we uh Marin had uh had some offline conver offline conversations with the the Mr Leo's new real estate and development team member for leoi development and they will be uh the Leo team will be at the upcoming planning board meeting on January 9th uh anticipated uh to include the anticipated phasing and uh update on the utility infrastructure design and bid process and Outlook uh for reuse of existing buildings vertical construction will start as soon as 202 25 and uh the infrastructure would will start in the spring of 25 uh phase one in the vertical construction will be first an apartment building that will be followed shortly by two retail buildings and then the next apartment building uh utility infrastructure design uh is on is on schedule and we will um uh also having conversations on a groundbreaking ceremony which uh is is is looking for for March of 2025 uh we have submitted a support letter to the 495 Metro West partnership preparing their application for the Massachusetts office of Business Development uh for the fy2 regional Economic Development organization Grant or redo program uh what that does it it helps uh identifying public funds sources for business activity Furnishing advice and assistance to businesses maintaining a network of public and private expertise related to Regional assets partnering with State and Quai public agencies to jointly consult with businesses and assisting municipalities with economic development efforts including coordination with the working group of the uh 495 West uh planning and Economic Development Group um lastly just want to touch some uh there was a uh basically a kickoff meeting with our we had one of four communities if you remember with Peril uh dunable and Townsen for that we received an Energy Efficiency and conservation block grant and um as a result of that uh hit some high notes with with a meeting the other day that uh Peril will be work peil is the lead is the lead town they will uh take care of all the administration of the grant of of the grant activities and uh and through the northern middle council of governments a clean energy manager will be hired that will be shared by all of the communities and it's something that uh look forward to uh to continuing forward and um it looks like it's going to be uh I just saw it I just saw it I'm sorry um uh the hiring of that manager position in all likelihood uh will be late January early February and uh looking forward to working with the other communities in the sustainability uh committee and moving forward and that's it and oh let me just say one more thing we do have a new hire um is it a new ad Administration hire uh that will be responsible for the administrative service between the Board of Health and Conservation Commission so please any select board member in the area and you see a new friendly face say hello when they start what's that have they started or um uh Megan is her is her first name and if you I can look back at my emails um uh she is going to start next week next Monday thank you Mark I had just a question that Jim might know um northern Meg and trusted they didn't do a groundbreaking no they're already digging I saw the whole right that was their schedule that I want for anything doing they were they just wanted to just quickly go as as as as quick as can so I think I think their real goal is to looking at the finished product and then the ribbon cutting and everything like that but the groundbreaking is is they just uh just so continue past but okay but gr for the ribbon cutting for the opening yeah [Applause] definitely okay uh town meeting okay um so we've got two uh draft schedules in front of you the first is for um our annual town meeting schedule this delineates um our um our meetings that we'll be having um over the course um of the first uh I guess five months of uh 2025 um this also spells out when um when the voter petition zoning articles would be in which is February 10th um deadlines for boards and committees and commissions to submit draft articles March 24th Etc we have town meeting um we've check with Town Clerk and the town moderator and we're recommending the town meeting take place on Tuesday May 6th uh and uh with that the town election would take place on um Saturday May 10th so all pretty standard uh stuff but we always like to put that in front of the board and um make sure you know what the schedule is um for the upcoming um again upcoming five or so months we've confirmed the date with the school uh yes [Applause] we have a motion behind you if you I'm out of country February 10th um move that the select board vote to approve the May 6 2025 annual town meeting schedule second move by Matthew second by Karen all those in favor I and um next piece is the uh your um uh proposed uh meeting schedule for January through June of 20125 for select board meetings um items of note uh we are uh looking to have a joint budget uh uh committee meeting or a joint budget meeting with the finance committee on Tuesday January 21st which is the day after Martin Luther King day and uh Tuesday uh January 28th which will lead up to our Super Saturday joint uh budget meeting which is scheduled for Saturday February 1st so uh again this similar what we've done in the past by bringing um departments to uh to these meetings they'll have a chance to present in tandem to both the select board and the finance committee at the same time uh finance committee will be separately having with liaison meeting with those department heads and having and doing followup with them um and uh again town meeting scheduled on on May 6th and the town election for May 10th so we tried to stay away from um any of the holidays there sometimes we um had to have a meeting on a Tuesday because of a holiday but um you know that's that's basically um uh you know basically the sort of approach that we've had to this is um get stay away from the holidays and keep us on schedule and on track for our um Tuesday May 6th uh annual town meeting um may be other meetings we need to cover or call here and there depending on what the need is but this is a sort of our start point and traditionally what we typically do is a committee to a board to move forward um are we not going to do a meeting with like I think Matthew I think you and I were the only ones that were on the board last time we did it I'm not sure maybe some got short but we did in 103 where we had just kind of a round table and um the department heads the department heads um it that I thought I felt this that we benefited from that because prior to going to um Super Saturday we had an idea of you some of the the bigger rocks some of the bigger things that they were they were looking at um plus it gave them an opportunity to sit down with us in a in a group setting and um I thought that was valuable good sharing sure sure and and you know we we have our department head meetings um uh every Monday at 9:00 a.m. when we have a our standard meeting so we could easily um make that a do that again and what would you anticipate what would be ideal timing Chuck that you think it would make [Music] sense I mean I I looked to the whole board but uh certainly had a department head meeting which is at 9 what is it 9:00 to 10: on on a Monday morning basically yes yes um it's the morning of a select board meeting not every Monday mhm yeah right right so we could do Monday January 27th if we wanted to have I have no idea from if anything during work hours I have no idea what my schedule is going to be not necessarily from day to day but sometimes from day to day um last week I didn't know what was going on from day to day um this week I have't to know that I'm going to be I'll be in Syracuse starting Wednesday but um so just for do you think those that meeting should be held sooner or later I mean are you looking definitely should be done before the uh the Super Saturday meeting I think it should be done before the joint meetings I I mean I think the reason that we do it is we go into those meetings with some context about all the all the things that we know about all right so that would be the later the first one in January would be IDE so the 13th yeah Monday January 13 possible yeah okay so Monday January 13th mhm at 9 at the 9:00 meeting yeah mhm do that that that work for well or at least put it down in the calendar we make guarantee work so no it doesn't work but right that's Jim that's your make it what's that that's your meeting yes you don't have anything big planned I hope I'm I'm sorry you have nothing big planned that day correct you try to keep that to an hour no sir yeah gener speaking we're pretty good about that so I mean it I think that we could probably take up at least an hour just with that that session and then you use that every other week to yeah but it but it could easily it could easily involve the board you know that makes it's fine it's finees makes good sense so uh we can add that in so um Can amend the agenda with that that's fine that's fine it's up the 13th mhm Monday January 13th yes Lo in okay um just before were we you hoping to do the charter on one of these me we talked about doing it potentially off I didn't know if you wanted to schedule that now oh yeah or do just say we're going to Target the 10th the 13th you mean well you said February 10th I oh February 10th yeah February 10th I won't be okay so we could Target one of those or schedule something for we don't have to do it now I guess either so well if you're putting out the letter we probably should do it now because you're going to put in the date right yeah um I know you were trying to stay away from Washington Washington's birthday week but will we do it on Tuesday February 18th well we could do that or us or February 3rd just do that one item on February 3rd we could do the third we don't have a meeting that week y i I'm I'm fine if you want to do it well you said you're not here on the 10th so we'd either do it the 3 or the 2 7th but that's going to be in the right in the middle of the budget stuff so I'm fine if we want to do it on the third and just have that one item though we never seem to stick to just one item right I don't mind doing it any other day either I mean doesn't have to be on a Monday well just lay down the Walls right now that's the only item we're going to have on that agenda yeah let's do it on the third so we'll add the third in and okay it's a one item of meeting okay that's review application and make and make appointments okay yep so move that the select board vote to approve the January 2025 to June 202 Mee 2025 meeting schedule as amended second move by Matthew second by Karen all those in favor I thank you okay Port update okay um we are meeting MPC on this Friday Sarah sorry we are meeting we are meeting at the orchard yes with some of the representatives from napc so they can view the view the property because we are we are moving forward with MC on the education and uh public Outreach um initiative that we disc we have been discussing so they're going to come visit the orchard this Friday and Sarah Seward is going to and Mark are both going to be there along with me Mark and I met with uh brand field um a week ago and we I think at least have enough to begin the process of asking Council to draft a lease um which we will obviously bring here to discuss um so that's what's going on there and I think the only other thing I can think of right now is I saw that Ryan you put you told us that class of construction had just finished up with the work was finished up with the work almost done on the barn M um so I think that's where we're at right now with it with the orchard we're still have the deadline of December 31st for lease so we're going to have to get cranking on the meetings on that um there have been comments from residents about you know questions about um the use of the land going forward um and I think if the lease negotiations are progressing well at some point you and I and bransfield should have a meeting where the public can come can come in and ask questions so that we're not trying to represent his position and and we can and if there's things that we should put in the leas based on that those comments will incorporate them and then the only other I guess another thing that I just remembered is Linda Stein from the historical commission has um forwarded some language that they want to send to the state in order to begin the process of adding a historical um restriction on this barn and so she wanted some feedback on that and Mark just to add one other thing to I don't know about where did that come from so that was um that was a um the at the the working group wanted to protect the barn in the house because those are not protected by an agricultural preservation restriction and you know they could potentially be sold to to a third party we wanted to make sure that the barn especially was protected because it's quite old and historic and we don't want there to be any you know significant changes to it I mean it significantly handcuffs what can be done to that Barn to make it operational less so than an agricultural restriction does is it less it is less we we can Define the terms of what we want when we go when we create the historic like the items inside it that we want to like we could say it's just the outer shell or you know if there are specific features that we can highlight we don't need to say it needs to be maintained in the pristine condition that it is and the truth is it's been added to and modified over the years many many times so I don't think we're trying to keep it as this you know it's not going to be a museum it's going to be a working Barn we just don't someone we don't want someone to tear it down and and build some giant steel shed there um this is something we can get the historical Commission in front of us to talk about I'm sure I'm sure absolutely yeah I mean because I is there any other kind of restriction or or um is because with the Historical Society if we do put a historical restriction on it it has to be held by somebody that's not us right so the other option would be an agricultural we adding it to the to the agricultural preservation restriction which we talked about that has the same that has the same caveat but yeah I you know we could have a deed restriction I was just going to say we could add something which I guess can last a maximum of 30 years so we were looking for something more permanent but yeah it would require someone to be it would require someone to maintain the the uh historical preservation restriction so these are just preliminary discussions there's nothing set in stone on any of this on what actually comes out of it right I mean obviously it would probably be a town meeting vote for the barn in order to put it on into a restriction didn't we do that with Robinson I'm trying to remember the process for the historical we custody so then it would be us we would have to vote on it I mean I would definitely need to know a lot more about it I didn't realize the barn was um aged that old 1700s we just haven't discusted that's that's why it's surprising no it's quite old um okay Mark if I could just add to um the kcom had asked um to be placed on the select board agenda um in um January I think the January 13th meeting yeah uh because they wanted to discuss the that um the Parc the land I think it's 71 or whatever that that we were potentially going to vote at the last town meeting but didn't so that just they had asked that so that's we're talking calendars something else for you to be aware of okay okay any other questions about the order the Restriction would put on um lower bar as well as the upper bar no so the lower Barn is not is I'm not 100% sure of the status but I believe that that lower Barn is included in um the agricultural preservation restriction on that section of the land I don't think that's not part of the so the only so there's little need of having restriction if we own it because we already control can control right so this was started as a part of the process of if we were going to sell it how do we make sure that it stays in the character D restri but again it's only it's right the lower Barn hasn't been talked about at all because there was never any was on the table it was never on the table for being sold um so this is just going along the next stages in the process if we did decide to sell it what we would how we could help preserve it so did is 30 years absolutely the max forra I I that's what I've heard yeah that there are I just I know that it's not in perpetuity the deed restrictions are not permanent for whatever reason Kristen kazus Cottage Way um I was just wondering if you might be able to um step out the lease process um because will you be speaking with the bransfield again like does it come back to the board it's kind of so we we have't we we are going to send an outline or skeleton to Town Council they're going to draft a lease and then we will negotiate with bransfield back and forth to determine whether or not we can reach some agreement on terms and at that point this board will have to approve it and I think we have just discussed best Mark just mentioned like we should have a public meeting with him so that he can discuss his use of the property like and some of the you know what what the restrictions might be on if there are issues with people worried about noise or I don't know what or use of use of things because they're are Butters and that can all be discussed um in public so that people can have their input on it and we'll take all that into consideration as we is it and then and then figure out whether we can finish a lease if we can agree on it on terms so um I know that you guys spoke about a December 15th deadline for the lease December 31st trying to get it by the end of the year trying to get by the end of the year so would that mean the your vote would be the end of the year or like what I think that we would like to have agreement in all but the detail but the smallest details by the end of the year so that we know whether or not we're going to be able to get to the end of a lease so I would think that like the public input would need to happen before then yeah yeah so was it something early December is that kind of what you're thinking and have to be I'd say early to mid December yeah okay and I guess um we've already talked at this meeting or you have already talked about how hard it is to get the word out on things um what um as an LCT member if we can help with getting the word out or um you know if there's I don't know if we need to put something in the newsletter to let folks know that this meeting might be coming up at some point just so that people are aware of it I I would just say that it would be really important for the public to be able to have this opportunity we will try and get it out through as many channels as we can the newsletter won't be an option because the meeting's not scheduled yet and the newsletter deadline is very soon okay is there will there be a December the December newsletter deadline is very soon so um we'll make sure sure we let Vin know yeah right I'm not sure if he's still do I I can touch face with him about that okay but but even even so he he he has still has that list yeah of people who are interested we'll definitely like share with LCT okay we can ask again we can ask the Nancy to put on the website perhaps do an email blast and we can do a keep your eye out on the newsletter yeah oh that would be great yeah yeah just CU people may not know that this is an option for them to even attend and if the lease falls through it kind of sets you up for the January meetings right right that's right um I guess my other question if I may is um there was the whole contingency about bransfield wanting to buy the house in the barn so what's happened it's not part of this discussion it can't be part of this discussion okay all right so it's separate all right okay thank Youk [Music] George S 62 great Roy uh Mr chairman uh about this uh two facilities there the BN and and the house what is the status on this of the town trying to keep these two items and if so how they going to maintain where's the money going to come from to do that so at the moment we don't have permission to sell there's three three main structures there two barns and the house we do not have permission to sell them we are trying to lease the two Barn at least one of the barns if not both of the barns the house isn't in any discussions at all at this point um it will be something that comes up um either if the lease falls through or if the lease goes either way after the leas is either uh agreed to or not the house will be the next thing that we have to address um there the house I believe is buttoned up as close as we can for weather tightness um and the barn is that's what we're um finishing up right now so so so the question on the B I hear you talk about leasing that if you lease it then you're going to put the requirement on excuse me who have a lease in to maintain it so that will be part of the lease agreement and it will there'll be there'll probably be some wiggle room in there on what main maintain versus improve means and who's paying for what so that will be part of the discussions on the agreement thank you then Mr Sanders I'm not sure if this is clarification or not but when we were talking about putting restrictions and things like that that was to make sure that someone doesn't come in if if we were to do something beyond the negotiations that are going on right now down the road we're not the sitting board at that time we want to try to protect those barns because they they do have some rather than somebody coming down there and seeing the thing bulldozed over I understood okay thank you 35 Vel um just a quick question uh at the last meeting the town meeting uh the conservation committee pulled back their request to take over lot 7A and B has there has that been declared Surplus that's what we just discussing will be on the agenda for the January 13th meeting got you with the joint meeting we'll discuss declaring it Surplus with the consom at that meeting y okay thank you okay okay oh sorry bra rounds 25 Jif root So pursuant to that lot 107 and the kcom meeting there hasn't been this public hearing and it was you know negated by them pulling it back during the town meeting so much like you're talking which I think is a great thing to bring in the potential Les e for a a public hearing get public input I think similarly I'd like you to consider as you discussed with kcom you know a broader aspect with regard to the property I'd love for there to be an opportunity for the public to weigh in and understand and be able to participate and give you some feedback since I don't feel like that's been an opportunity except for these kind of two-minute update sort of thing so just for your consideration okay thank [Music] you just one more thing the um historical um protection on the barn might be something we as the town might want to consider if we go through with the lease I do know like in conquered the barretts mill um organic farm which is um being leased that Al the historical commission is a part of that property and they do inspections to make sure you know it's being farmed appropriately but if it's a structure that we care about for the town and historically and want to maintain it it might just help provide us with some protection with whomever is using it I think it's a good idea either way but if we lease it it's just less urgent because we still own it but I understand what you're saying yeah exactly just part discussion uh Town common this is a request U to um utilize Town common that's 7 o' on Wednesday to 20th for silent visual for the transgender day of remembrance so um typically the board's requested for the you know when using these properties or using down town common and um that's it's TR straight board any discussion move that the select board approved the use of the lower Littleton common for a silent vigil for the transgender day of remembrance on November 20th 2024 starting at 700 p.m. second move by Matthew second by Karen all those in favor I I uh Taylor Street exclusion this was something requested by Mr Wilson I know we we've talked about this um in the in the past I I I I wanted to bring it back to the surface I think we um I I spoke with DPW director with Jim um chief of police and trying to find out reasons why it could be an issue to have to have allow CH Taylor um there w n noted um we did uh reach out to PepsiCo um the Patriot Patriot excuse me uh just again to get a feel of the safety issues and some of the concerns of you know going over the tracks all the time on King Street and into the traffic there by the high school um so obviously in agreement although they've got a lot of their issues that were initially Brewing up managed they have a traffic manager now that kind of assists uh with some of their flow and things issues like that um but I you know just looking back at the history I I just don't see a reason um why we do not this this road is not a country road one whole side of it is industrial that which has trucks coming in and out of it um it's a wider Road it's a sidewalked road for 90% of it um and we're talking about a stretch of like I said before with a mile no it's not three4 maybe yeah I wouldn't even say that yeah talking from Wickam the porter um I've seen I've witnessed many trucks take a right there at the VFW up up Wham take a sharp corner on the porter to come out around this and it it just doesn't make any sense to me that we're not allowing trucks and I I understand there could be issues with it that's why I was saying we we allow a 6 month and look at this we allow this to open up for 6 months and then we relook it if they're and let the public say not here's some of the issues or we can ask DPW and the police if we had any issues um if we have issues then we can relook it whether we want to at that time say let's restrict it at night because there's too much night traffic or whether we want to put some other type of restrictions on it um to to to include maybe even the speed limit there if that needs to change but um just from everyone that I've talked to as far as uh you know Town officials and the user and what I've visually witnessed I I I think we need to I I would like to push a vote to um start the proceedings to open that up to the truck traffic and and as I recall when we discussed this last time no one remembers why this exclusion is there is that correct like it was there prior to there's different remembrances okay but it was there before Patriot beverage was it was there yeah very fine was there very fine was there right okay and I believe it might have been the concern at that time that fair fine was going to have so much truck traffic um that okay you know but um yeah I'm still my my feeling is still the same on it pushing all these trucks out onto King Street in front of the school and the traffic that's being created there it just gives the vehicles that want to get on Route two in the railroad tracks vehicles that just need to get to Route two that option as opposed to have to all go up yeah St now I um that's why I think a six Monon look at this then we can review it to say this is working this isn't working that's we still we still have control of what we want to do with it um but it and I know we've had a few we did have a few people emailing you know and on WE they don't want or they don't like that but I I think the benefits outweigh you know anything that I can see the negative side um as far as townwide and safety and I can go down a list of other things um so that's just my opinion I I'd like to hear everybody else I know there's a lot to it but I we are talking about a fairly short stretch of road and it's going to I believe it assists in the safety of of the community uh the town I think it's better traffic management yeah I think the police chief agrees Steve yley some professionals that we pay to figure this out I I mean again there there's many different remembrances um but the one that keeps coming back is there was resident on Taylor Street who had a relationship with the then police chief and it became a restriction you know so um I think Mr Wilson's proposal to do some time certain investigation or you know just lift it for whatever it is whether it's 6 months or a year um I don't know when the heaviest truck traffic would be that's but you know I even looked at I know early in my tenure I know we discussed the we had in front of us uh Shake Elaine who was a residents that wanted shakeer Lane have a truck restriction which I feel is a far more um road then and we you know after a lot of discussing with you know the public and also uh Town officials that didn't make sense so that's why this one to me makes even less sense makes lense and Steve had some very good Arguments for like why it didn't make sense to put a restriction on sh right pushing all the traffic through the moving it like rearranging the road as say so I that's that's where I'm at with it I like I said I I want to say it's it's not it's it's not quite a half mile that trucks are currently restricted from because you have that um the facil the ones that have the dirt godilla yes thank you pulling out of there those trucks don't have to abide by it anyway cuz that's businesses at there um Carol Keith Carol Keith Carol owns a lot of those buildings excavation has trucks coming in and out of there all these SWS um bayate pipe all without inent and I don't we're not talking about I think this massive all of a sudden there's going to be a convoy coming up Taylor Street it's not like that at all um it makes no sense to go up tayor Street if you're going for 195 I mean it's a little easier for them to go the way that they're going so I think it's really um helps to alleviate some of the traffic southbound to westbound traffic or actually eastbound over too as well so can I suggest that we have a public hearing on this and either I maybe the December 16th meeting I won't be here on the second and because I'd like to what I'd like clarification on I agree with everything you said is the process if we order to remove this if we can do a temporary one or not right or and or if we should do a Tim restricted one right it'd be good to hear it'd be good to hear and have documentation from DPW and the highway and the police chief supporting this right yeah I mean I I've talked to him you've talked and they all said something but you know usually we have a written something yeah that goes in and then we can have the public come in and if anyone has any comments on it they can comment at that time and we can figure out what the process is cu I don't know what the process is either even if we were to vote on this where does it go from there it goes to do um I think you Jim on a teleconference with you do you recall what Mr yanley mentioned about the process after we would make a recommend or actually it's our decision we approve it and then Mass do could say for the temporary yeah so what um Mr yanley had explained and uh we did ask him just before the meeting for whether he had heard back to do do has has a has a website that trucking companies or firms will go to and they will they will deter they will find where the truck exclusion routes are and they'll avoid them obviously so the way I understood it Mr yanley had said that uh the that will not change on the website we can come here locally and take down the signs on a temporary base and put them back up after the 6 months but that will still be up as on their website on Do's website uh that what's that if you do a temporary even if you're doing temporary it's up there once it's there because quite honestly this is kind of an anomaly usually Comm unities are are putting are putting a lot up there um it's it's not something that anybody's experienced that to come down or even temporarily come down it's like we're forcing trucks on to Country so so even so you're saying even if we vote to remove it and take the signs down it's not going to make an appreciable difference because all of the information is coming from the website and the truck trucking companies are going to avoid it anyway we we haven't we need to confirm that take a while it's going to change though it will change but if if Patriot is the is the the one that we're most concerned about and we notify them they can notify their shipping companies so that might make a difference it's more for the local business and that and to that point I mean I have been I've been at another Community with the same situation it was really more about the jake break that was going through neighborhood and that business was on notice that this is this has got to stop and they were they were Vigilant about informing all of the drivers whether they outside vendors or their or their internal drivers really along these streets there's no Jake brakes allowed whatsoever and it so but to your point that supports your point that go to the area businesses and they can make it perfectly known so so I I'm just saying that I think it' be good to have you know just more documentation on this like it would be nice to have something from Patriot saying that if this was open we'd expect 20 trucks a day five trucks a day to take of this or something so we have so yeah I have I have emails when we do this we can say look this is what we're expecting this is what you know if it turns out to be something different we'll react right but this is what we're expecting the impact to be I mean I don't I don't know what the benefit of that is I I just having trucks on it or not it's really just allowing trucks not on right but what yeah what I'm saying is like we just should you know I agree that the exclusion probably should be lifted um but it would be good to document why we agree that it should be lifted more in a more formal process than what we currently have okay DPW DPW you know police fire police fire I we're talking about a patriot but that's because they're right there but yeah but that's important I mean there as Chuck pointed out they're going to be the ones who benefit from benefit from it and are probably realistically going to be the majority of the of the new traffic on it especially if it's if there's some go-to website that they all have the the equivalent of a TomTom where their dispatcher can track where they're going right but they can also program in thesea streets you can Star Drive how many times do you wish that's also part of it what gets onto the GPS right exactly for for those for those Vehicles it might be also good to reach out to patrion and say if we put a restriction on it you know and over no trucks overnight right does that would would that impact you versus not yeah see I'd rather just have it open and then come back to a restrict like that to see if there is an issue you know what I mean because why restrict when there's no need to restrict unless we find that there that's why that's why I was saying the six month relook and you did the you did the what you're asking for is what's already taking place I mean you've already youve already spoken to the the people that we consider our professionals make these decisions yeah I think to I mean I I we don't Grant a one day liquor license without having something written in our packet that says right the chief thinks is this you know has no objections I yeah and I it makes sense to make sure that we have that in writing as well um I I don't I don't see the point either of uh of starting with a hourly restriction I think we just open it wide and then and then see if we need to narrowly tailor it from there so I request that in our our next meeting we open it obviously can have more I mean this was that's why it was on here so we if if people wanted to show up they could come or we've discussed this it's been on the agenda I think two other times Well at least yeah but I think if we say that we're going to make a vote on our next meeting after public input regarding if if anyone has any I think it would be nice and then I could have a letter from DPW police Patriot I have a lot of emails to Patriot obviously maybe they'll come and talk to us about it Dan Dan's pretty good he's the one that gave us the $10,000 donation for Patriots Day yeah maybe just come and talk about it so if we have questions I can answer them I'd like to you know we we're doing this without a whole lot of public outcry for it um and I know not everybody here has heard public outcry about the Jake breaks but I certainly have I'd like us on that stretch no in general so I I mean I think if we're going to have a open discussion about traffic and and issues I don't you know can we add the Jake breakes issue to it and see if anybody wants to talk about it they are two separate things but they're they are affiliate they're there's no reason why we can't do both I I agree we should do I agree with both of you actually that they're separate things and that we should do both I just so I don't know they'd necessarily go together because there's not Jake you're not saying restricting Jake breaking on old in that stretch no I'm saying but if we restrict Jake braks throughout the town I think it would if we're going to expand truck traffic I don't I think we should do it along with a restriction on air brakes so I I don't disagree that we I agree with you that we should restrict the Jake breaking right I so we should look at what the process would be for that we've looked at that so let's yeah let's move it forward they don't have to go together though they just they both need to move forward they don't have to move I don't know enough about it is there a reason to do it yes residents are pissed no I mean is there a reason to day break is there a reason is there a safety reason residents on one road right not in our town well those the questions I don't know I don't know Tru yeah we don't have that type of that hilly area or sudden right if it's an emergency there's always an exception for emergencies we don't have that kind of incline you know in town such that you know they should be gaining speed and then all of a sudden they've got a runaway truck coming downhill I guess I just you know I guess I'd like to understand why we wouldn't do it that's something we've talked about before I you know maybe when we have patri in we just have him throw that disc discussion that start that discussion what is what's your opinion what's they have they're they're the biggest trucking probably industry in Littleton we have I I know some people I know pow road is one of the roads that you had mentioned was was was an issue but I know some folks that lived on there for 20 years and they they don't have any issue with it the the company the trucking company that comes by there on a regular basis has been there since 1926 why do we want way before the houses way before all the houses were built what are the benefits of Jak breaks we only own such that we are such that we want to I mean it's I the folks that I've spoken to don't have a problem they don't see it as a problem it might happen on occasion have a problem if we if you're if you're if you're a super heavy truck and you're going downhill you can use the jake brake so you don't overheat your braks yeah I I know that this isn't on our agenda really so I right I I just think we let's put it let's put it on our next our agenda let's move it forward I agree we should for discussion and yeah I also don't know what you do I mean I go to the track in in the morning and you hear the trucks out jig breaking on 495 we can't do anything about that I I I live at the bottom of the hill going on to Route two on New Town Road yeah I I just I I don't again yeah okay I don't see it as an issue and that's a bottom that is at the bottom of the hill where people come flying down that Hill okay okay let's it uh uh I will uh we we'll try to uh understand really because Jake breaking is common throughout every world yeah so I I think if I can just help I and I don't know why the reason is and whether it's a heavy load whether it's a light load or what the reason is if I can just share with you to get you give you better more information to understand exact I'll do the best I can to educate myself and You by explaining why that needs to happen I mean I can't imagine the truckers are just driving by just to be a nuisance just to doing that there has to be some safety factor involved in it I don't know yeah but I'm more than happy to I'll I'll research and try and get any and all information to I don't think it's a safety factor I think it's a convenience and wear and tear Factor okay and I don't know yeah let's find out yeah you have to replace your brake discs as often seriously I mean honestly in the 10 years of whatever that I've been on the board I've never had anybody complain about Jak breaks so I I don't want a kneejerk and make a change which could affect local businesses let's we don't even know that so let's we don't have let's find out yeah okay okay um we moving on Northern Tier rail yes Mr chairman this is something that um I received from uh Senator Senator eldridge's office and would like the uh select board's uh support of this and that would that that would be done online in which I would uh I will submit on behalf of the town and uh it's it will help uh the the way it's being presented the northern uh tier Rail Project will help critical needs and Central and western Mass um that Northern Tier or route two um have been communities along that Corridor are experiencing stagnant or declining population suffering from economic decline uh while the average age of of residents uh grow older so many businesses in Western and Central Mass are small to very small the loss closure business can have significant impacts on community on a community the return of the rail along the Northern Tier will help strengthen economies and boost uh opportunities for growth the expansion uh can provide transportation Mobility necessary to help relieve housing pressure that uh more air more urban areas are facing and it will open up travel to Central and western Mass and allow people in the region to travel more easily to Points East South and West so this is basically a train line that goes from North Station out to Adams and potentially onto Albany New York yeah I um there's two different proposals one stops in I believe around North atoms and another continues it all the way to Aly so how does this affect Littleton Littleton residents um well the train line will be coming the train will be coming through Littleton there is not a so it's using the track ching The Tracks um the closest Stop to Littleton would be air um as currently proposed uh they're planning on um the stop would be an air that's the exchange where the tracks break off yeah so steel Pan Am line that got purchased so um it's as with all rail projects it's extremely expensive and this is just asking us to support it to help move the ball and keep the ball so give me a negative to this why do we think this is going to succeed there hasn't been rail traffic there for 40 years so clearly there's not an economic benefit why do we think that this is going to it's going to win now and and how much is it going to cost the taxpayers of Massachusetts I guess what's that I don't want to I know I know it's a lot but I'm just saying that's the negative I'm not necessarily opposed to it but I mean just many of us have kids that are get into the age where they're looking at either rent a rent a place or buy a place potentially and um they're having to move further and further west order for affordability so maybe I'm just throwing that out as a potential to you know some of the younger population may move out to some of you mentioned some of the older population and this is a vehicle for them to get you know they might be working in Fitchburg or or or Lemer area but it gives them that hour commute that some people come from Littleton they go to Boston so if your kids at you mask you have an easier way for getting them home is that so we're talking about getting into emminent domain issues and other things no I think I think the state already owns the rights to most of it is just redeveloping the tracks whatever they have to do to turn it from Freight to Comm to passenger but to Matthew's point is there a financial benefit to Littleton for passing through probably not but I don't also think that's much more truck much more train traffic than we currently have there's a possibility that you know they the well I don't think that this project itself would necessarily have Financial benefit but if they're improving the Fitchburg line then there could be is associated with it would secondary benefit okay uh if you if you do opt to do this if uh I'll submit this electronically um and that's how and if whether if you want me to authorize me to to do that or I can fill this out and I will probably uh put the Chairman's name on it um I'll do it however you would like to uh proceed Mark um this came out of from Boston who who who the request M do so Mass DOT specifically so in conjunction with um Northern trail pass and it's uh the the letters of support will be delivered to um the governor the lieutenant governor and U Mass doot officials they're going to send us some money for um MBTA housing probably not no no so it's just it's just a Feelgood do something so have you seen the the the lowest expense that's estimated right now I yeah I seen it is it is it in the hundreds of millions of dollars 8 878 plus million dollar for that's the lowest alternative um the higher investment is 1.5 billion that's a lot of money talking about Shake l oh too soon jez there is a motion if anybody wants to are we ready are we going to are we I'm okay with voting for this in a very abstract way yes yeah I thought Jamie asked us too didn't he wasn't this his request all right yes well that's different I didn't even see I wasn't even aware of that yeah move the the select board vote to endorse a letter of support for the Northern Tier Rail Project second move by Matthew second by Karen all those in favor I how would you like me to present uh submit this gave you a couple options you say the board fine done great is this going to mean more horns honking as they come through little I'm just trains don't have the jake break no they get squeaky sometimes see you can't blow the horn going through acon but you come to littleon I hear it CU right at little field road yeah you right there too makes you feel like did anyone have any changes on the minutes yeah exactly we get used to it no you don't no no changes to the minutes all right move that the select board vote to approve the meeting minutes from the select board meeting on November 4th 2024 second move by Matthew second by Karen all those in favor I'm going to abstain because I wasn't here that's it I abstain motion to adjourn motion to adjourn second sorry move by Chuck second move by Karen all those in favor I thank you Littleton have a