okay good evening this is the community preservation committee meeting for May 1st 2024 I just want to remind everyone that we are recording and this will be available for um on lctv on demand and on their uh YouTube um chel so our likenesses and whatever we say will be recorded so we have a pretty simple agenda tonight um the Webster property and and all that goes with that for town meeting next Tuesday meeting is town meeting is Tuesday May 7th um I don't have any any other mail or any other feels like a while since we've seen each other but um I don't think there's anything that's that's really been happening um so shall we get to it um unfortunately Amy green is out of the country I guess on vacation so um I'm sure she would be here to help us um W through the um project I do have a copy of it app so we can start with the eligibility um Jim Dugan our new Town Administrator um what Amy had done was she had put the pro put this together of course because we we had kind of a trial run last uh last fall so she had all of the the details together so Jim just had to kind of go through and put the funding together um just kind of to to recap the U new appraisal came in at 730,000 we are going to ask for another 30,000 for closing cost anything that's going to happen from here on out once the property if you know there's any legal fees um the one thing we're going to have to figure out is if it's our legal team that does the work whether we can pay our legal team from the the CPA but the 30,000 that will go in is going to be we'll have it is an up to just um if it doesn't get spent it doesn't get spent it goes back to um the open space bucket but the project um the the cost for the ACT the land is 730 is the the uh new appraisal and just for clarification purposes this is actually coming from the town administrator's office as opposed to the concom this time around um the concom hasn't uh me to formally vote on uh the acquisition um or actually to formally submit an application so that's why it's from the the town administrator's office Toom so how did that work then as far as were to change hands to if that's what they choose to do so with it being bought for conservation purposes it would still go to concom it's just the applicant is uh different this time around and concom is going to hold a special meeting tomorrow night which I think they thought that they were going to be voting on the application um but from tonight's standpoint it sounds like we're going to perhaps vote on the application uh from the town administrator's office um I see Tess Dean just um chimed in this is the community preservation committee I don't know if you're looking for that or the orchard committee no this is correct thank you so much for letting me join it's fine just to make sure yes and um I thought like flipped over here because I thought Chase might um join in also but I it's kind of flip-flop just because we we're kind of under the gun to to get all this completed um fincom the select board and the community preservation we all have a meeting scheduled at 6 before town meeting um so if there's anything that needs to get um I we'll know before then we'll just make sure we have a quorum um if there's anything that needs to be revoted um we can do it then yeah for me I mean if it was just me personally tonight I would be like yes I I would vote for it I just haven't heard from my constituents yet to to be able to vote um but depending on how you guys feel you want to handle this if you want to vote tonight or if you want to perhaps vote before town meeting um after I hear back from my board um whatever you're comfortable with essentially so um Lyle Webster is with us tonight I don't know if you want to kind of uh tell us what's happened since the last uh Town boat and how we arrived at the new appraisal just for those of us who haven't heard the background I can do that I'm happy to be the dancing bear uh Sho well I can say from the Webster Camp we've been working the last six months it's been a little bit more uh uh P things together here toward the end with y'all and conservation committee folks and everything else but uh thanks to Litton conservation trust hired a second appraisal a little bit more favorable than appraisal number one and I did prepare comments that I shared with Jim Dugen to essentially say wish it could be different but if this is what common policy is going to deliver today and appr appraisers have to deal with fact and uh their uh own way of doing things Gretch and I are ready to be done so on our side of the table with the Websters we have worked with the siblings to recalibrate expectations still believing that the number we presented in the fall is more closely approximated to the value of the land but since conservation land is worth Zer today we are back at an appraisal of $730,000 greton and ly Webster have more and better things to be doing with our time and we will make the world a better place in our own ways so we are ready to work the $730,000 appraisal the ultimate goal has been always will be conservation and preservation of this land which is the overlapping of colonial and pre-colonial time on this patch of Earth and since we could be hit by a bus tomorrow we would like to preserve forever so as the steward jour two families have owned this land since it came out of uh Thea Plantation the bulle and my family and Gretch and I bought out the siblings so that we could see through to this day and we would like your help please and grateful for everyone in town that has worked toward this day so that it can be acquired by the town of Littleton and we would like to see that through whatever the final steps are I'm not the one that made it a rush but here we are so if we can get the job done I appreciate all your help I myself commend you and Gretchen absolutely for taking this taking this route thank you s appreciate it yeah long road and not necessarily the way I would have imagined but here we are learning how all of this works okay thank you um I hope everyone's had a chance to kind of read over um the application you know basically it's purchasing the parcel which is 36.4 n Acres um located on the corner of bulkley and crane roads um there are a number of photographs that we were presented with um and all this was you know presented at the last town meeting as well so um nothing really has changed right on the the acreage and and anything like that um the goal of the purchase is to provide permanent protection for the property's natural resources which include Forest Uplands and wetlands a Vernal pool of perennial and intermittent streams the purchase will also protect the Native American and historical resources on the property and will provide public walking trails in the area of Littleton that is not well served by nearby Trails um the purchase timeline the town meeting if the town meeting votes positively on May 7th um we could purchase uh after um once the town and the seller agree on a closing date um I did get a note from I think it was from Robin Healey the treasurer that it may have to happen after July 1st but it could happen on July first um once the the new fiscal year pops into place as we mentioned the um project cost is 730,000 and we're asking for up to 30 in um soft cost Linda had pointed out on the um funding on exhibit B it's still under the budget it says the sole component of the total project price is the purchase price up to 730 so we're going to have to have them add in um plus forget to stop and look at this okay um uh to have Jim add into that that there's another $30,000 um so that may be another thing that if we want to wait until um another 30,000 is it is that in the eligibility or just in the um Linda was that also in the eligibility I I don't think the eligibility said anything about that I think it was only in the funding under budget use the yes see on the eligibility request he had um it's just penciled in yeah he penciled in with an asterisk which goes down to here purchase of land 730 um soft cost and the other cost again closing cost um there was a survey that was done last year but that's not eligible we can't reimburse the town for that because it's already been paid for um and I checked with Stuart on that and he said yes you can't supplant funds that have funds that have already been expended for something so I I just had a thought is if could we go to the town meeting and say that the purchase price is 730 and not say anything about the soft cost because we could do that independently out of the open space bucket I mean just to avoid the complication that town meeting floor I would think more want to put that out there for people though so they can weigh the whole picture of the project I mean that's the we have to fund we have to fund it through town meeting at some point yeah so okay right any any expenditure has to be proef through time meeting eventually so the only thing that it I mean the only place you conceivably could do that is that we did give um or we are intending to give Amy a trust fund for conservation activities that are oh she could take it out of that she could take it out of that but I I think no I think Mak make a package of it okay Carolyn could you clarify what we're sort of deliberating right now well right now we're just talking about the project and then we have to get into the funding that's that's the real thing that we also need to to come up come out with they need to know tonight really how we want to fund it right if we don't vote on anything tonight though they're not going to be able to repare the handouts for Town yeah yeah we really do need to vote are we we're treating eligibility and application yes so for eligibility are we sure that the 30,000 can be spent yeah I checked with steuart sagor today and he said absolutely put that in in fact he suggested it when I was talking to him he said make sure they put in and he gave us the $30,000 he said that would that would cover anything that you need to do um but yes he said yeah yeah he said estimate it's reasonable up to 30,000 for expenses after um but he said the only thing we have to make sure is that we break it out so that we have that purchase price because you can't have the purchase price can't go over the appraisal but you can have these soft costs as a separate it you know a separate item within the um warrant article and it still counts as acquiring those $30,000 but those are only going to be spent for invoices and anything that's not right spent we'll come back so if we have to vote on something tonight which it sounds like we do maybe we can say with these edits you know with these partic this par particular language that we want or need of the 30,000 yeah I agree so I suppose I mean the eligibility is the easy part I think um we why don't we uh vote that through um this is the again the project is for for this 36.4 n Acres um uh let's see are we the owner no obviously we're not that's what we'd like to do um I don't know if there are any other questions on eligibility of the project have going to us I'll make a motion to approve the eligibility of the Webster property for acquisition I'll second that okay it's been moved in seconded um to approve the eligibility Linda is um is remote so we'll have a uh a roll call Andrew Hi Sam hi Solomon mitt I Jerry hi Bartlett hi Carolyn is an i and Linda I thank you thank you that's step one so let's let's do this let's close this out and I have the project clight oh PE sake have problems with that you [Music] open no chocolate I still want to sleep tonight the computer all day long everybody's watching [Music] you well while we're waiting for this to open I think we all know what it says um does anyone have any questions um you know from the I mean I yeah I don't know I'm familiar enough with the project I think I don't have any questions about that it's just the funding piece that is the was it that bottom PowerPoint on the list yeah that's that's the um that's what fun all right so shall we talk about the funding scenarios uh just one thing about the 73 ,000 MH do you want it to say something about the up to purchase price and or is that something we language would just drop and no we need that the motion is going to be awarding $730,000 be awarded for the up to purchase price for the property no we have to we have to make sure that our motion says 30 730 for the purchase price and up to 30,000 for I guess you call them soft cost is that additional additional admin administrative cost is that could I say that the total project cost also includes a $30,000 amount for legal fees and other soft costs oh no it's got to be it's got to be very specific and then when we get to it we also be depending on which scenario if there's any bonding we have to make sure that's very specific as well okay so how did it not hit how did it not hit what um what language should have an a motion well that was just the eligibility so we haven't done the always said it's it's eligible just yeah well it's let's uh okay so funding scenarios um Robin hey our Treasurer got together with uh Ryan Ferrara Jim Dugan um I think Kim kovo was there as well and gave us three options and I think it's one of these three that I don't think we need to monkey with the options um so the first one is to just pay the pay in full from the uh CPA open space Reserve which right now this would right now we're at 1,234 670 so if we paid the 730,000 out of that we would have 54,675 that would include the balance that we're expecting to get for fiscal year 25 which is 219 the 219 279 which is an estimate so um we would still leave ourselves enough to you know any of the um the debt Reserve that we have we still have the Williams land the clob land and the Yap land that we're paying on um much did you say would be left over um 504 670 oh okay good do we have those what the annual totals are to those service um this year they were have some told me to bring it I have about three of them in my house I think you do yeah whoops sorry you can see here um so this is this year so it'll be a little bit less probably next year um Yap land was $5,100 uh coband is 19,200 and the Williams is 34,800 so 20 50 60,000 so it would definitely um the only other thing and I think it was mentioned at last night's finom meeting is if something else comes up it's the thing you know um so yeah I'd be hesitant to wipe out yeah that larger chunk of the open space fck it so the second um is there any consideration of undesignated what you good some another question what how much is in the undesignated balance yeah I'm not sure how much is left in that I know I i' asked them for all the buckets and we only got second lean and could the soft Class come out of that potentially yeah or I mean any part of it or any any portion or amount the side is appropriate I could come out of there I'm trying to get to the next slide can you hover over like a little arrow in the corner is there usually one for PowerPoint that you can like I can't it's like stuck because I did some Zoom slide oh God computers in Harvard never do this right Harvard computers never too many windows open so the second option is to bond half of the purchase so we would pay 365 from the reserve and then we would um borrow 3 365,000 for three years so as you can see that um what the principal that they would pay it's a 5% um and so the the line down the interest payment if you look over 36,000 is what we would pay in interest if this is the the scenario we we chose so for kind uh I know fairly short money um this would allow us to keep more money in our Reserve account yet spending another 36,000 which would come from our account as well putting in thirds yeah third down and then third and the third yeah it doesn't really change much because either either you're taking it out of the reserve or you're taking a pretty substantial chunk of your anual deposit and spending it out and that's not available so it's sort of a tossup of yeah do you want to leave the money in the account and then pay it down over a couple years or you take it all that now and then the account grows faster over the next three years doesn't seem like there's a whole lot of unless something else became available tomorrow then but then you I mean then you bond that one right yeah you just have have to have enough be to be able to to do that with do down payment Bond yeah I I would be more inclined to keep as much of that Principle as possible um and looking at the projects uh and I know that there's a third option which is completely bonding it out um look at that one that's bonding the entire purchase the same so that interest would cost us $773,000 so that's basically what this option would cost us so I think I mean between two and three is where I'm leaning whether we want to do the whole thing bonded or put down a chunk um it's about the same period yes they would do it for the same period or paying twice as much in interest and you're paying substantially more than what you can reasonably expect to get from them yeah [Music] so I mean I think that I think the interest is just an estimate so it will be it will be likely be less than that yes and she mentioned to that the 5% was just kind of a I mean that's round number that's a round number gift I what I've heard Steve say is that we're still getting four yeah it should they expect it to be less than that but it's still it's still still be something still something yeah and it would still [Music] be you'd still be spending more than the annual expected income not more than I mean well I mean what was it two it was two oh in this in this case in this Cas yeah right so you'd still you would still end up paying down some reserves yeah pulling some reserves to make these payments right right yes yeah mean this year we're putting uh the 219279 into the the bucket so um we definitely back to this I need talking out of option one because I'm not a self Insurance kind of guy I I think of the I think of the interest that we pay is sort of ensuring against the possibility that another project comes along because in three years if another project doesn't come along I'd much prefer to have paid cash now I see that point but I I just think if we have more capital in the reserves to jump on something we're in a better position than the potential to borrow or something down the road um especially something that maybe is a big ticket item where we're going to have to put more down um as opposed to less and borrow the the remaining funds is that are we talking about the likelihood of a land purchase most likely more than likely and those can pop up at any time it's just the nature of the the Beast I'm holding my tongue about how quickly they transpire and how fast I'll be good three years would have been a nice timeline right yeah I'll behave um well uh just to to weigh one other thing is if something did come up what's the likelihood that it would exceed what we have in undesignated if you added to it because we can we're allowed to use that to spend how we need with the rising prices of lands I mean especially Residential Properties um I mean it's land is bananas right now and uh yeah I mean we could be looking at millions of dollars down the road wanted to really secure a beautiful piece of property that was vulnerable in town and uh you know to have that money stored up I think is the best case scenario as opposed to having 500,000 in it and then a $2 million property pops up and not having that much to put down or wiping out what we have to put down and then borrowing we're going to be in worse shape than having you know what we do now and just bonding this out Carolyn are you looking up what's in undesignated I'm trying yes and of course I'm a little hesitant too to really dip into undesignated because rack and other buckets look towards that too for certain finding pieces so I wouldn't want to go after everybody's money to uh to cover the sprad this time around I just think well yeah I I mean it's I think it's in in my mind it's sort of the you know much like if you were going to bond it you would take it out of undesign and we can repay undesignated um you it's not a not necess taking at all it's just a shuffling for shortterm savings I kind of I think lean a little admit that we have a large pot of money sitting there it's at the end of you know at the end of three years you're essentially going to be in the same place plus or minus $70,000 [Music] um it seems like just you know I don't know that I I'm not sure that it really changes our capability much because if we're if we're bonding it it just means that our our future availability for those two or three years is than what it would be so yeah it's it's a tough scenario way I just think having that money sitting there and available is a little better in the short term if something does pop up because I mean land it's erratic when you know in terms of popping up so um that's why yeah I guess I don't know I would yeah I would argue you could say yeah $500,000 in the bank with a $200,000 income for the next three years and Beyond is better than potentially better than a million in the bank and 100,000 in income for the next three years yeah I mean I don't know I mean I don't I don't know yeah it's a guess it's a guess but off the top my head it feels like it's it's as good or better and even because you at that point you can you know you can bond for that you can bond for 10 years knowing that you have a pretty consistent income whereas if we're if we don't have that income in years one to three then our ability to the bond and payb a bond is [Music] limited I don't know I you know this is Finance far beyond my my level of expertise but that's just like does the finance committee have an opinion yeah I mean I think when we were talking about last night I think the majority kind of felt that that some sort of a a Banning would be wise just you know because you don't know what's going to come up I kind of um I struggle too I mean I hate to give away 36,000 or 73,000 for for nothing so I I guess personally I would tend to lean toward one or two um two seems more you know palatable to uh to spend on it and still keep some Reserve but um you know you make a good point you just you just don't know what's coming it's just hard to predict you know it's not like it's something that you know you'd have to spend money on but you don't want to necessarily pass up something that you know that you want so but if nothing comes up for too more years than doesn't matter I think there's at least 500,000 in the undesignated bucket oh okay um so this we have a pretty good chunk in there and then we'll be putting more in this year um so if another property did come up we could bond that one you know more than it's tough maybe option two kind of a compromise between I I mean I think option three doesn't I don't think that buys us much and we lose 70k I mean that is pretty substantial yeah that's a lot of money to throw away I mean we've had projects that are less than that that I think I could get behind option to I think it's a it's a good chunk down it saves us a lot of capital and the reserves and I mean our borrowing won't be as strained and we won't have as much of an interest uh spent in the end especially if it's lower than 36 I mean if it comes in you know 20 and change I mean even better it's not going to be much lower I'm leaning towards option two though I I do understand the arguments for option one but I'm still leaning towards option [Music] two well if we do option one we're down to 500,000 in the book for a year but then after after a year we get up to 700 again and after two years we're up to 900 so I could go either way but I think that there's a strong argument for one I mean there is but I just picture you know what if a million plus property pops up tomorrow and then we're that much more limited in terms of our immediate use of the money yeah I mean I that that's where I would like to hear from somebody with a better understanding of the finance part of it of you know if you have these dollars in the bank and this income stream what is your buying power versus if you have more dollars and less income right yeah that's the I'm just thinking if we have 500k in the bank a $2 million property comes up next year we're going to have that much less to put down and then our bar bwing power is I mean I don't know if it would be limited or if you know we're going to well that's what that's what I'm wondering though is if you right if we had or do we have the I don't know yeah it's and then if something else pops up and we wipe out that undesignated and take our open space down by that much I mean at that point we're just out of luck yeah exactly if three large great pop up in in you know a twoyear time span then unfortunately we're out of luck then there's a problem yeah well Bor borrowing a power is going to be based on income isn't it rather than how much money we have in the bank um that's the way it is with retail yes and no it's tough should had Robin come I think I I mean watching the fincom meeting last night I me Steve seemed yeah Steve and Fred I think definitely felt um that a borrowing would be probably prudent um but but it's really I mean it you really can't say which is going to be the better option until three years out um you know when you see you know what's happen just no way to predict certain since I brought it up I mean my my impetus is to go with one because because I I'm against self-insuring and or or I'm against Insurance I'd rather just self-insure and wish that we were lucky right all but but I think with with other people haven't discussed it and we wish they were here it's kind of a boring approach to take the middle one but it's kind of safe too you know it won't raising the eyebrows so I support number two also and I I think Jerry you started sort of the conversation saying you would lean for one or two so I think three's off the table and I think we could I think most people would I don't think we'd have any no votes tonight for option two I guess wouldn't come from me I guess that's I'm saying I know for 365,000 it's either way it's like it's not a lot to borrow but it's not a lot to spend either and we make some some bankers happy some just that they're Anonymous that's the part that really kills me an anonymous person will be really happy no it'll just be moderately happy really 36,000 is rounding to what they actually they be annoyed by the pap it's Municipal so it's taxfree for them well maybe we could ask the Housing Trust for long took a turn all of our money and the other thing too is I mean if it comes to next year we can always put more into open space if it comes down to oh my gosh there's a big project on the table instead of putting we put what 40 whatever we could put 60 in yeah but that means less money for Bartlett less money for Saul you know what I mean like I know but that's what we that's what we have to do is f think of those those the balances of all those I mean like you know and in the undesignated too I mean we can always we've been putting more into that but we also have the state match but I mean that's the way we have to do it is decide and and the other thing that we have talked about in the past is do we put more into undesignated just so that we can dip into that however we want and there's there's a lot of um traction for that and we've always talked in the past that's not really what we like to do but um I feel like having those categories knowing that they have X amount every year in revenue or in their reserves is kind of a reassuring thing because if they do have a project pop up they're not competing with other categories um also kind of gives a little bit of a yes but but that is another option when we get to that so there is always that I mean we we have control over what we put into those yeah and like historic and park and W could look at the 36,000 and said that's the whole project for us you know give away that money so well that's it that's what I was thinking we've had a lot of projects that have been under that yeah yes please to clarifying question if I may sure um I was paying attention eventually to realize we are out to two and three is option one to use your available funds to pay outright and be done with it yes follow-up question which may be parliamentarian for town meeting floor if you choose option one does that mean this does not need to be a 2third vote because it is not a borrowing option I think CPC is a m is a majority vote um but where it's borrowing against future CPA reserves I'm not sure where that lies so I know a typical borrowing article is a point to ponder yeah they've got a two-thirds required vote for that's a very good question very good good wellow um we would have to definitely get clation because CBC articles I think it's a simple majority if I'm not mistaken yes like anything else else yeah but borrow normal borrowing is two3 is borrowing against CPA revenues 23 or is it a simple majority because it's a CPA article that's a very good point I guess when do this we Brown property right did we borrow for the brown property or was that Williams or brown one of those brown for I was a grant yeah yeah um let's see aren't these ones that we're paying on that we still have yeah okay so little I can do this meetings um well if I go on the website I have I can't know I I can't not Mouse have such a hard time with these do you know what year we bought the Williams property was that 20 fall of 2016 16k Williams okay so if I go to the administrators I think we meeting documents meeting documents by what did you say 2016 yeah fall fall meeting Woods 2020 we should have a t-shirt on the back and be and'll be webster like the the Tour the World Tour and then and then you can have different asterisks borrow motions and recommendations here it is so I mean [Music] two3 excuse me yeah this says two3 but this wasn't put under a standard CPC article this was just an out right it was from the select board and it was acquir land at 31 boxboro Road for conservation oh CBC just paid the oh no here it says article 12 um the community preservation committee would be asked to recommend to use CP funds in July and borrowing Authority so they included borrowing Authority and that one whiches why it's two3 [Music] right oh was probably a um a Revis motion I wonder if that's part of it oh yes look at that the revised motion was Article 12 so um CPA Yeah by TR okay transferring from the open space Reserve 260,000 um undesignated Reserve 210,000 and appropriating and borrowing the sum of 43,000 so that required a two-thirds vote am I remembering correctly but it was contingent on getting the grants like if the grant money came in we wouldn't take or am I thinking of something else that's that was the brown property that was brown okay yeah because Williams were paying Debt Service on that's right so it had to so wait so yeah which which property that we bought recently is not on The Debt Service list that's what we're looking for the brown property it's the brown we're looking for the brown article yeah cuz that was like half us and and you got that big was that the MVP Grant and another Grant was that CPC yeah yes okay so CPC and and a grant yeah so there was no borrowing was that 209 I feel like I've lost track of like years I don't know what years were anymore pmic man yeah it was before the pandemic so maybe 2018 this Browns Woods yeah was 2020 2020 wow during pandemic yeah were we on the field when we how you have to remember where were we when we voted I think it was an indoor one if I'm [Music] remembering I know it's so hard to like pleas yours now like just wa we had nice weather was it doing some impressive navigating around there car I know s SM it is October 177 of 2020 article8 don't breathe [Music] on we did get lucky in the weather for those I don't see a threshold though for this vote they didn't include it like they did it's a didn't borrow so then it's a majority yeah so that would mean that if we did do number one it would be a simple majority how close do we think this vot's going to be on the floor I don't expect it to be close at all I think I think the town wants to buy the land yeah and if it's using CP was because the big thing was the C not being able to use CPA funds and having to use General yeah so I don't I don't I I tend to agree I don't suspect it's going to be close but I'm not sure that I you don't want to bank on there because if it's not going to be close then we're we're not and and and we're in a whole new world of clickers so who knows flickers are great you're going to love the flickers they really they amazing no more hand raising no more hand raising you're literally going to have the um the article presented moderator will say okay I'm going open up the vote you have you know 60 seconds to press the keypad and most towns have like a running total so you'll see the numbers climb not yes or no but just in total and then they'll say okay and close the vote and then the numbers will pop up it's really cool really cool West is still doing voice vots for some things but Westford actually had um clickers in place but no yeah right for anything that was going to be close they Ed the clickers for oh the ones that you expected a you know overwhelming majority they just did a voice even for things that you normally just routinely say okay all in favor I and it's like okay done even if you use the clickers it's like a matter of seconds like it's really cool once you get going well worth the money Town's going to love them great it's might plug for clickers yeah hope it doesn't get screwed up we I'll stand up and so to do with clickers my company what so in that case if we go with option two which it know as we said is is not um unpalatable is that the word we would have a two-thirds vote we would force a two3 vote at to meeting 16% of the that's right and been down this road and if we think that the majority of people are GNA go for it with CPA money it's is it that much of a risk that we do that yeah it still it still pushes me further back to where I was which is just spend the money now and keep it out of the bar and keep it out of the keep the issue away yeah so we we'll be we'll be back in good shape in two years in two years years reasonable shape in one year in good shape and two years I think to vote that way tonight I would certainly want to check with my constituents before perhaps wiping out the open space just because I mean that's a it's a pretty big hits of the money and I want to see what they had to say about that I mean in terms of approving the projects I think that's something that you know but in terms of funding sources I'd be a little shaky making that determination without first hearing from peeps on the board yeah I mean I would I would be happy to hear from somebody who can actually run the scenarios and tell us what are yeah what are forward purchasing power is in both cases yeah I wish had come to this meeting yeah yeah I just don't want to report to the concom tomorrow night hey I proved this and Ian we're using all the money no not all the money that's why they sent you here to make those hard decisions I kind of thought Chase was been way um well he'd be the same way he wouldn't have been able to talk to to everybody but if we don't vote tonight like Jerry said they're not going to be able to put the warrant together which they really need to do yeah we're right I mean they we can't vote on it at six o'clock on the before be able to yeah I mean they'd have to like write up two and you know pull one yeah yeah that's a lot of people they don't have friends I'm wondering if I mean could we approve the project and have the the funny mechanism pending or is that can we vote one way and then make a motion on the floor if there's a lot of opposition I think we want to probably look as solid as possible rep meting shaky if we if we are looking for the two-thirds vote and it seems like that's unlikely from the from the floor that we did we amend our motion on the Flor to go with all cash no I no that I would not okay I would yeah the the Optics of you're going to lose a two-thirds vote so change it to a majority vote is yeah yeah not good all right it's it's just a shame that I didn't have that full pcom input before coming into tonight's meeting um if it was just me tonight but I think you know last time they were for it and it was more money you know potentially so it was GNA you know pretty much Wipe Out the bucket even if no it was GNA Wipe Out the operty bucket right but if CC could have paid for it um you know it would have one of these scenarios even even the second scenario of taking half of it would have you know wiped out pretty much you know yeah the open space and what Steve was preaching to us when we were talking about the increasing the the um the SE charge to 2% was you can Bond everything I mean he was almost acting like you know give 10,000 upfront Bond the entire project so if a big Open Space Project did come through next year as we were talking earlier it doesn't sound like the finance committee has any issue with with bonding no a larger amount and what is the what is what are the odds that we would get another big Open Space Project next year you never know it's only I mean potential maybe but what's the expression expect the best plan for the worst yeah I just honestly I don't know which gives us better better buying power that's the my I guess it really doesn't probably doesn't matter because well we've got a constant income stream exactly right so if we don't spend the money this year Sor right if we we do the partial bonding we don't spend all the money this year if we want to spend and we wanted to bond something else it just means that we're going to take that money from the reserve to pay the bond in the first couple of years anyway I mean essentially you're again you're I think it's it's just more Capital to have an immediate need to throw at something but yeah it's not I'm not sure how much value there is it would buy us a year though right because the the first payment 138 would be FY 26 because we would buy it next year right after July 1 yeah yeah you guys are doing great to you ever get to use a Lifeline that's exactly what I want should have asked one of them to I tried texting but they haven't heard back yet but you're right he was all four bonding yeah but I don't know about the 2third that's yeah I know that's a wild card I didn't even I didn't even yeah I I don't I don't think thebody has mentioned I don't think anybody thought of that it's a bad issue but the the two-thirds does give me pause although I don't think it I mean I'd be shocked if it was an issue but I wouldn't want it to be so Y and this is fairly early in the night so they're going to be a oh you know it'll be a big audience the full Crown yeah they put all the big things up front but well did Andrew you say you want the kcom so that they won't end up with well I say they but it's actually CPC who controls the money the kcom doesn't control the money no no the kcom doesn't control the money but it's the it's pretty much the biggest customer for open space dollars so I mean I would want them to have some kind of input you know as my constituents before I you know made a decision that sounds like we have to vote tonight though I know I was just looking at the calar I mean if we put off and waited till them I mean there's no time unless we met Saturday night or Sunday morning after church or something um we just we just don't have the time you know including the 48 hour window you have to have to post a meeting and and like a Monday meeting would be too late in the process I think so because they're going to be putting put yeah yeah they're meeting Friday morning I think to finish everything up well let me make the case for option one again I think if if you put yourself in the future and looked back at this you could say for the next land purchase that comes up people could argue that that this was a medium-sized project or even small in terms of land and yet didn't weren't we were planning for the future by I I'm trying to make it sell uh just the having it having it with a bow on it like done and then we can reset our we we we know what our Revenue stream is and and we always ask for what projects in the pipeline and we don't really see right now so I think we could say you know we we we had some bonding we bonded Yap and it was on books for 20 years um that that was a much larger project I think maybe medium siiz I mean hopefully we'll have a big one someday but I'd like to think that we could uh put this one F in the rearo mirror and say say to um town meeting we were efficient with our vote could afford it on that night and we did Brian uh Tarbox did just text me back and he he said any borrowing would require 2third Bo um and if there was something that came up on the pipeline it's still we still not be able to move on it quickly because it still has to go before town meeting you know so it's not going to move you know that quick I mean right nothing m c this world for reason these kinds of things um I mean in some ways our argument for increasing the search charge was that we wanted to build up the the bucket so that we could just pay for something you know well and also just to have more capacity but right but here's you know we're going to take it out of the bucket we could have had more in the bucket I mean it's similar to like your your conundrum with the affordable housing trust fund you know giving you a million dollars and then they're saying well why aren't you using it why are you still stockpiling you can say all right well we're not stockpiling we're using we're using the funds as has been put aside I know I need the phone orry now too bad I don't know if I should text Chase and get into secondary opinion um sure why not not you have you have an idea of what the what their your board would say I think they would be supportive but I mean I wouldn't want to make an assumption for them no um give Chase a call ask him never heard or or you ping him file into the meeting be I don't want a short cerate discussion but I will when anybody's ready I will throw a motion out so see where see where we going [Music] get in so well may well we're all pondering that can can we approve the project in advance of deciding on the funding just because a step one yeah because that would be separate from the from how to do it how to do it we can do it all together we do it as one I'm just kind of I know know Chase can hop on the uh okay let me give him a call really quick I'll be right two votes one for the eligibility and one we did the eligibility one so now it's the approve the project and then decide how to fund it good okay so he's gonna try to join the meeting so I think I think that um the funding is the approvement okay so that's it's all that's all that we do at this stage I think Institution biggest cheerleader we still need a t-shirt okay so he I think he's gonna be joining okay just a second you can make a t-shirt with all the land purchases that would concert tour feel bumblebee but then you'd have to fact the cost of the new t-shirt and before you made another land there you go I have the old one it's in the that's kind of a cool idea like a concert T-shirt have all years with the the that would be a good conservation trust 200 bucks yeah Bumble be PK was even before CPC way before CPC yeah 1962 [Music] oh here he is oh perfect hey Chase thank you so much for popping on yeah no problem so we're we're at kind of a standstill rate here and how to proceed tonight um as you probably seen uh the ten administrator's office filed the application for eligibility and funding instead of concom this time around uh so I didn't want to make any crazy decisions without hcom input in terms of funding the project and whether or not we should proceed you know I think that there'd be General buying from the concom but I just wanted a secondary um input especially in terms of funding whether we're going to borrow for the project pay all the money out of open space reserves what the concom would be comfortable with but I it's just you and I so we can't really speak for the concom yeah but I I I think we could say that in the past conom has regarded the question of how to spend the money is a question for CPC to consider um we've typically only at least in my recollection ained on whether or not we should acquire a parcel right sort of staying in our lane if that makes sense and in that regard I would I would think if you wanted you could certainly let's let's say CPC you all are willing to proceed but you don't want to proceed unless the conservation commission supports it um even though it is the town administrator's application technically um you could certainly condition your approval um based on Conservation Commission approval of the CPC application and unfortunately we we got things out of order and Conservation Commission is meeting tomorrow night so in a perfect world we'd already have that for you but um just didn't work out that way does that I I I did I answer your questions Andrew do that make some sense Linda can you hear me uh I lost you guys just for a minute I can hear you again now yeah I think we might have lost Town Hall there oh really oh dear and I I said so many really smart things you're gonna have to you're gonna have to remind them how eloquent I was still the meeting's still being recorded though oh good is weird that everyone's most people are gone but it's still being recorded um I wonder if we should hang up and call back into the meeting although I guess they could they could call back I guess let's just wait a minute see what happens I did un I I did understand what you said Chase um I'm not sure we I personally would want to do that I think we have to come to a decision tonight um I don't know how much you you got tonight about the choic is either between paying it all out of CPC funds which would leave the open space bucket with like 500,000 left in it or whether to um borrow which would um leave more I forget how much more more in the short term but long more money spent overall yeah we would pay $36,000 in interest so those are the two choices um that's helpful I just got a text message from Andrew that said they're rejoining so okay so the other issue that I don't think they raised with you tonight was if we borrow we need a two-thirds vote at town meeting so if that's a concern that's something else we should consider right we don't know if that's concerned or not hi everybody on the line with Gretchen and Tess but okay we're back continue what you were saying to fill him in I just filled him in on on the two options you know the leaving paying all out of the open space bucket and have having 500,000 left in it versus option two having less I'm sorry having more in the open space bucket but paying 36,000 in interest but then they also just raised the issue of you know the two-thirds vote would be needed if it if we borrow and is that a consideration and I I'm not sure where I might have got cut off but um let me know if wherever I did get cut off I hadn't answered your questions Andrew no I think you had said that um you thought thought that kcom would leave it to CPC on how to spend the buckets um and that you would be the ones to you know decide what Parcels should be purchased yeah I think that's how we've historically handle those those types of things um I probably if you heard that one one thing element that you didn't that maybe didn't come across there the option potentially if if CPC wouldn't want to go forward without Conservation Commission approval is to to make sure you all know we're meeting tomorrow night to take this up so I I understand it may be less than ideal but there is the option of um voting in a way that is contingent upon Conservation Commission supporting something I I'm not sure you have to do that at all but if if you wanted to you certainly could I I think based on my completely uneducated opinion my only concern about that is what if the kcom says no they don't agree with us then what happens because they're so limited time at this point I I suppose I would remind kcom could go a different direction it's a different vote so on and so forth but just like your board kcom supported it at the higher price as well unanimously and I think it's true it is our we have it is our decision yeah um so I think I think we need to well I'd be in favor of doing the the simplest thing which is option one we have the money in in place we have an an income that we can pretty much rely on for the next several years and we don't have to go through the 2third vot so I make a motion that we support option one I will second pay cash can just ask one question though assuming that um kcom did not vote to support this which I would be shocked the town could still that the administrator's office could still bring an open space parcel to us so okay so they can spend money out of that bucket as well so okay so okay yeah I think it would it would probably struggle more at at town meeting but but nonetheless I will second par question okay so we have we have to make sure we have this down M you you got your fingers s seconded that $730,000 be awarded to pay the purchase price in full so that was the funny mechanism not the approval of the project though I think we have to kind of well that we approve the purchase of the property with by paying cash and and then I'm not sure how to put the 30,000,000 closing expenses and do we want to take that out of open space or undesignated for the 30k it's so small it probably doesn't matter I think it sets a precedent to take it out of undesignated in a good way or bad in a bad way in a bad way okay then let's not do that yes it's open space cost you know yeah okay with up to $30,000 of soft costs all from the open space all from the open space um that works okay that Barlett you have my endorsement and thank you for being the reassuring Factor here so I'm sitting here like I don't want to make these decisions for concom tonight just I don't know about opening it up to we have a couple of guests or Gretchen who's here I'm sure for moral support um I guess I would ask Tas and Bob if that if you have any you know limited comments on what's been going on it's good to I agree with purchasing it outright and being done with it I think it s a good presedent all the comments I've heard I think support that I think I also heard you say that there was aspect from vcom with regard to if something came up you go with the 2% you bonded out those to me seem to be sweeping comments with regard to not being concerned about a hoped for delightful situation where you've got another opportunity that taxes you to figure out how to do it but I think it all supports a positive direction with to taking the action on the motion that's good to have some feedback Tess do you have anything yes I feel the same way um paying and full makes me very happy okay great thank you now now that the motion's been made I will also Pine that you make my life much easier at town meeting by only having to clear a 50% thresold I think it'll be fine yeah can you read that back exactly how you have it written because we have to make sure that this is Bartlett moved Saul seconded that $730,000 be awarded to pay the land purchase price in full and that up to $30,000 be awarded for soft costs comma the money's coming from the open space book I was looking for a word Mar we call them buckets but it's really reserved makes it sound a little more is there any other discussion any other questions before we I'm ask for a roll call vote Anders are grateful well let's get around the table Andrew I Sam hi Saul hi mitt hi Jerry hi Bartlett hi Carolyn is an i and Linda hi and again are grateful and chase you can take the rest of the evening out I'm still sit at work there's not a lot of Tak in the evening this this evening as well as Town Meeting thank you for all of your efforts on our beh yeah we'll let you get back on the clock app thank you okay so all right that's it so we will um pass I'll pass that on to the powers that be this evening um and we'll be ready to go for very good you guys make this look easy oh this will be fun to watch back um the for so for the presentation at town meeting um I guess I think Chase is going to present the project even though it's coming from coming from the TA only because Amy do you know why that concom didn't have time to formally vote to submit an application so I think that's probably why it came from the TA and Amy is on Pati so it was kind of like a double like whammy in terms of preparing for this uh but uh I know kcom is still meeting tomorrow night I'm probably just review what happened tonight as opposed to approving application and having it go through U so yeah I mean we were efficient in that we worked out a lot of good it was very seamless yes very seamless um so we don't have to worry about that presentation I did say that I would speak on behalf of the CPC if they asked you know that we may get questions on why we decided to do it this way and not the other and I sketched down those yeah oh um because we have the money we have the income stream I'm not GNA say anything about the two-thirds vote but say that that that 36,000 or the you know is is funding for projects that you know and spend it for interest such little money yeah okay Jerry can see your paper and then um the other so then I said that I would speak on the other um article 10 and I I just want to your opinion so we have 11 projects we're putting for with this year ever that is the most ever um and they are all posted to the website except for the Webster property but they're all on the CPA portion of the website um if I if I say if I talk about I mean if I we just list the projects and say does anyone have any questions or should I give a little summary on each one I think what's provided in the word booklet is pretty sufficient unless somebody has more doesn't say anything really just the projects it just lists the projects isent agenda it has a little description yeah it's got like a little thing like imagine on a consent agenda and it's not yeah it's not going to be on a consent agenda no um why not I don't know I think because it's got so many facets to it EXC um so just leave and just list them and then if anyone has questions yeah that's what I would do that's what Caroline because otherwise God knows what you'll get into I know and it it will just like take forever so I'm going to ask like John fulam if he'll be there if they ask about you know the um the any of their projects maybe he would speak to them I'll bring my paperwork with me and if you know fumble if I need um Linda I don't know if you or Andrew could talk to the the markers and the gravestone I don't anticipate um too many questions for those M I'm sure that Alicia day will talk about the um playing surfaces in the docks and then them I'm just wondering if Tim is GNA frame this as a slate or individual project I think they're all they're considered separate Appropriations but the article is all together so someone could vote out something okay I'll find out from him how he's going to do it in Harvard the way that they did it with not only like just regular operations expenditures was they individually voted on each project down the line it took a long time but I feel like people I don't think that's how we do it no it's not how we do it but no they usually just open it up for everything but I suppose someone would just amend the article to say scratch one scratch one of them which can't imagine all right so I'll do that I just wasn't quite sure I I asked Ryan in the middle of an email he didn't answer but I think he just probably didn't see what I was asking so I'm just going to go through the three is it three items well it's like five because we have the 1% sear charge we have the estimated State match which we vote different percentages then we have the projects we have the debt exclusion and then or The Debt Service and then we have those um unspent project valances and I think I'm just going to run through it and let people ask the easiest well and I think Steve thought that they might rewrite it after this and and so they might be combined in one instead of the two articles well especially now if we don't have to have two the other all right okay that that's fine I can I can fudge that then I don't know that for sure he just thought okay and if anyone else when we get to town meeting wants to speak definitely you know stand up especially if there are questions coming um we never used to get questions but now we're kind of in the spotlight so okay um anyone else have anything to yes sir yeah so Rob BR from 25 Juniper I learned last night at the clean laks committee that on May 28th uh the select board agenda which I recognize is not posted and could be subject to change but nonetheless John was informed that the clean Lakes committee's lack of funding that they found themselves in which you heard John speak to when you folks took action and very much appreciated that's going to be on the agenda many of you serve on other my opinion very relatable related commissions and committees and given that I think that's a a firsttime select board kind of forum for the matter to be discussed I just want to bring your attention in advance hoping that that day will hold true I can't promise that but but I alert you to it because because I think May 28th because I think honestly I I see it as a very raw situation um posing great risk with regard to cpc's aspect with regard to definition of Maintenance versus capital I don't think that can be underestimated in terms of how tricky and yet the Lakes as being the resources that they are need ongoing work and that starts to bring in the aspect of annual maintenance versus Capital brought with Peril and so many of you represent commissions and committees that I wanted to just get it out there right away so that if any of you or others on your respective groups can participate in the audience or participate in the meeting way I want to make notice and thank you for your time yeah that's great thank you good to know those things ahead of time instead of on the 29th of May anyone else have anything to I really appreciate you all coming for this quick um Jeff wasn't able to come tonight that's why he isn't here but uh um for this quick meeting um we we hash out a lot of good things like we yeah yeah it wasn't a quick meeting but it was a quickly scheduled meeting as well I should say you got her partly right yeah miss that very there so um on that I'll make a motion to adourn Sam Jerry hi Bartlett hi carollyn z i and Linda hi all right thank you everyone good night good night everybody meeting is Tuesday May 7th meeting at down meeting 6 o' in the library of the um middle school middle school which is upstairs car any to um