##VIDEO ID:RPg0PjRpiP8## all right good evening everyone this is the community preservation committee meeting for October 16 2014 we have a quorum 204 say they didn't say 19 for um thank you sure so um we have on our agenda tonight news and mail I don't know if anyone has any news or any mail another presentation well and there is uh one of the projects that you guys did with 12 Robinson is coming to completion and uh while in our street there's controversy about the color it looks really good there's a lot of discussion about color yeah I think it's already sort of settled so yes thank you what what for you are you a res a neighbor I'm two doors town what's most notable about the project in terms of it's actually occupied it has virtually been unoccupied for 30 plus years and and for a while um the fellow who lived there who was the was literally the neighborhood Boo Radley he was occasionally having problems so that's great and it's a historic resource for the town it's right at the front and you come in and uh uh I think it's a really successful project for this um work something preserved instead of t down yeah and and the inside the the uh the interior the original portion of the structure the Interiors were really they had a really careful uh Craftsman to essentially restore it or not restore it just keep it thank you for that update anyone else any other numers updates all right so we we have um parking wre is um here with us tonight to talk about the um the tennis court project which of course went to town meeting last May um we did at that time approve and we approved them recommended it to town hall meeting and it was approved by town meeting to buy um or to re renovate the tennis courts at the high school there have been some issues with that and I think Tim and Alicia are here to kind of talk us through those and then um to present an updated project for us the control all right thank you everybody for having us tonight um we have kind of done the circuit with uh going to the different committees and boards and uh went over uh what the projects looks like um unfortunately we made it to you guys last we were kind of in a holding pattern waiting to see what the school project was going to look like um and potentially the use of the wick field area so um that's where we are at tonight um if you would like to flip to that first slide for me um be the next page down did it work before so essentially um just to give everybody a quick rundown of where we're at so all the project aspects that are being proposed tonight um have been uh something that the town has been chasing for a while so ongoing PRC town and capital requests since 2016 has been field creation outlined uh in the 2017 town of Littleton field needs assessment study which was done by gal and Associates um included in the town of Litton open space and Recreation plan in 2016 and 2024 so the tennis court uh project became necessary after the demolition of the Town Hall tennis courts for to make way for the Center on shadik Street uh these were two tennis courts that were line with four pickle ball courts uh originally the location was chosen for the Cooper Farm property was designed contracted and due to the $1.1 million cost the article was pulled before the fall of 2020 uh 2022 meeting um Litteton High School location was then Chosen and the architect used for the Cooper Farm design submitted uh to us concept drawing with an estimation of cost that came in around $734,000 uh the 7 34 from CP was approved for the renovation of the wion High School tennis courts to four tennis courts and was voted on at the fall of the 23 meeting um in May of 2024 uh PRC met with Litton Public Schools uh and at landcape architect from activitas to review the Littleton High School site and come up with the project timeline uh the architect advised us that the concept drawing did not take into account the proper Court setbacks and necessary site work would probably exceed the aot of funding the 734 so um the other big piece was a 2024 project timeline beginning in June was not attainable most of the contractors had already booked themselves out and we were also working up against the fact that we had be out before school started and we were working um the sewer project was pretty heavily over in the same area that we would have been working in um so in May of 2024 I sat down with uh athletic director Mike Lynn we reviewed the plans and we formulated a proposal for tennis courts as well as some other field Deans that we had been chasing for quite a while uh June of 2024 we had a planning meeting that involved prce Littleton Public Schools DPW the ta's office park and rec commission reps and representatives from all these Sports organizations uh in June of 2024 we asked activitas to put together a fee proposal for design permitting bidding and construction Administration which came in at $12,000 and to estimate a total proposed cost of the entire project so new project yes um so the new construct uh the the new project has basic uh two components um that really achieve four things for the town of Littleton so first of all um as you see in the application um the very first piece of it under project description is the creation of four new tennis courts at the Middle School site um this will be used for all High School Middle School practices and matches uh prcu programming Littleton Public School fiz Ed and it'll also be open to the public um this allows us to then renovate the existing High School tennis courts to make up for the loss of the Town Hall courts so rather than having to build new tennis courts to make up for them we were able to renovate those put the same four pickle ball courts on that work has already been completed uh the nice part about that is it's also going to be next to the new home park and wreck in the school administration building at the 36 King Street site um with that the other piece of this project that we we pulled in is the second part which is the reabilitation of Wickham baseball field to the level of jet softball field so uh jet softball field was part of the Alumni field project uh we have a um kind of Premier softball field we do not have that for our boys so it's a little bit of a reverse um title uh so as far as working with that we'll relocate the high school uh baseball field and all Ed 90 foot baseball games to the Wickham field allowing for the high school complex to be used for all of our grass field needs utilization uh and then the last point on there is the utilization of the high school Grassfield complex for all those Sports needs uh currently we did a demo for this in the fall it allowed us to fit three full-size Fields um we would have potentially the ability to fit a fourth in the future um and as I said we piloted that his fall working through um project description uh number one of the CPC objective um this is our proposed new construction of at the Littleton Middle School location um this is the overlay of what the tennis courts would look like next to the middle school parking lot the 1 two 3 4 are the adjacent pictures uh as it sits currently on the Middle School field each of them line up with where the corners would be on this project uh on the uh Lower Side of that slide you can also see that the intent is to keep uh what we would have left in grassp would give us approximately an 8v8 soccer field that would remain there or used for the Youth Sports uh moving on uh bullet point number two so this is still under the objective one this was just something that happened with it so rather than having to um build new pickleball courts uh which was also something that was kind of on the radar we were able to uh rece uh we crack sealed these repainted them put all the striping back on so this is essentially exist as is right now exactly what the town hall tennis courts were um and those pictures were just taken all right objective number two um this is the rehabilitation of Wickham baseball field uh so as you can see there's Wickham baseball field on the left of the slide the proposal for this field is to bring it up to to the level of jet field so that would mean um fencing the entire way around the the field uh this would include dugouts for the players on Deck circles and um warm up Mounds for the pitchers uh this would also include putting up screening uh to protect the cars from baseball for those of you guys who do not know since sewer project went online we have not used the varsity field at the high school um because those fields were offline uh one of the things that came from that is baseball started having a lot of spectators um kids were coming over from the other Athletics watching the baseball games and for the first time in I believe about 7 or eight years uh we hosted our first uh tournament um we were at the Mia Tournament level so that was something that was exciting for the guys this year um in talking with Mike Lynn uh baseball was just such a better product here and the Youth Sports organizations agreed with that as so just to give you an idea of the why um in the spring season that is currently how the varsity baseball field sits so as you can see uh we lose three of our full size two of our fullsize fields that we currently use the one that's the farthest left we've never painted we do have the ability to paint it if we were to get rid of the varsity field at the high school um in the springtime soccer numbers are actually larger than they are in the fall for the most part they've been that way for the past couple years um so losing three Fields out back is very detrimental to the ability to uh satisfy all the user groups that we currently have um one of the things that we've had on capital projects since 2016 or before is the creation of a new sports field at a cost to the town of about $1.1 million estimated in 2016 um this gives us the ability to you know at the cost of pretty much paint to have uh two more fields that we've been chasing for a really long time um the only thing we need to do is move the field away so the picture on the right is what that looks like if we don't have the varsity baseball field there and and it lives over at Wickham which is gives us the ability to have all of those extra Green Space fields for soccer lacrosse any other um utilizer um any other users that we might have so um if we flip to the next piece of this project goals um this project aligns with the CPC goals by preserving the number of tennis courts in town creating new ten courts an additional field space and rehabilitating an existing facility in Wickham field uh IT addresses the town of wilon PC uh PRC Capital requests addresses recommendations from the 2016 Gale fail needs assessment study addresses goals from the 2017 master plan and addresses 2016 and 2024 open space and Recreation plan so project timeline uh if we were to obtain funding at this fall town meeting uh the estimated project timeline would be as follows so the week of November 4th we'd hope to sign a contract for design construction and bid the week of December 2nd we'd hope to open bids and have those closed the week of December 18th prior to the holiday uh once everybody kind of comes back um we would hope to meet and review the selected bids week of June 20 and after everything kind of goes through we' look to start the project sometime in the week of June 23rd um the drop de date that last week of August so that we can complete everything have it packed up and ready to go for the beginning of the 2024 25 school year so the entire project would be expected to completed within one year with the construction schedule above um most of the construction would take place between June 16th and August 11th that's 25 right 25 correct oh August 2 2025 correct this upcoming summer this upcoming summer um so by by the schedule that we just outli that's going to give us the ability to get contractors on board and book them ahead of time so that we can actually have a summertime project um so the total amount of this project um has increased from the 7:34 to the 1, 34,000 uh 340,000 sorry and uh we will be funding as follows So currently um assuming we had the uh CPC Recreation bucket of 700,000 uh lwd had gifted uh an additional $200,000 in their last meeting uh to support this project um on May 17th May 7th of 2024 there was a transfer from the town to the CPC Rec bucket for 11 18,350 and then the the balance of 15,650 to be determined uh either the town may borrow the funds or it'll be funded by the operating budget so that makes up the entire amount of what we are looking to have voted on slash what we're um the total project cost in addition to that could we stick with this slide for a minute we can um yeah if that's what you want to do I just had some other figures that we re chasing just to let you guys know yeah there um I just wonder if you can recap on yeah absolutely maybe a little more slowly sure so um what we're looking for for this project is a total of 1, $34,000 so the funding mechanism and how the warrant article is written is that 700,000 of that would come from the CPC bucket so originally we had the 734 that was appropriated we're looking at the 700 number coming from the bucket can I clarify something really quick yeah so um with the article the way that it's written it would resend what had originally been approved that 734 so that wouldn't exist anymore so we would be starting from scratch essentially if that helps good you um so that would be the 700,000 uh last week um lwd they had a uh sum of money that they were looking to give to a project um and we had approached them about the project and they voted as a board to uh put forth the $200,000 towards covering the balance the difference of the the project as was submitted before and now so that's where that 200 comes from that was a light Water Commission they had sold a property and had gifted that money um so in May 7th of 202 24 there was a transfer from the town to the CPC Recreation bucket in the amount of $18,350 that's just a note that's a helpful note we already had that Carol that was I thought though I thought that was in in anticipation of what they were going to borrow right and I think that um think that was real money though that went into there was it as I that's that's what the warrant article has it written yeah yeah was thinking that in terms of the total Recreation buckets we know how much we have in this yeah because the well we were only taking 334 because they were going to give we were going to we were going to borrow 334,000 so we were only taking 400 from the recreation budget the last time so we have I think we got we had 1.3 million and that's before um the fiscal years transfers take place but I think there was about as much going out as coming in so I think if we figure 1.3 that's probably and then we have undesignated we've got like 700,000 in there too so but we be taking we're now taking more out than we were before unless we [Music] borrow the the P comp didn't want to borrow the the short answer and there is I guess the other part is there is already the text of the warrant article um I mean I'm sure we could amend it if we wanted to but the the text is already there and published dump g a little bit yeah and that was the last bullet point was it was amended that you know uh the borrowing would be 15,650 and there could uh they could borrow funds uh or could be funded through the operating budget for that balance um in the meeting that we had the joint pom meeting in the select board meeting uh when it was brought up that the $200,000 might be available that was when the conversation started happening well does that then change the amount that we want to borrow versus the amount that we want to um F through CPC so just to to clarify to that 200,000 was that existing in the the bucket and L essentially had to give your approval to spend it correct right they had to designate it was really up to them to designate for a particular um project so the town asked them so it's not a new it's not a new it's the one we've been talking yes it's been holding there so this is the project that the town decided ask and the revenue soures is a gift to the town then so it's considered Blended funds yes yes years ago thanks yeah just so one more thing so the 200 is already and it's not an addition to what we have in the buet now it's it's included in there what was that total again approximately approximately 1.375 so once again we would be essentially taking 900 well 1,11 18,300 50 out of this the recreation bucket no well the 200 is in in the bucket right they have would be 900,000 yeah but then there's this transfer from town to the yeah and that's not included in here because that was done at the Maytown meeting but I don't feel like that's real money well this what do you mean by that car it was debt Ser it was it in fact we questioned it when they put it on the warrant because we're like well what's that we haven't even started the tennis court project so why are you allocating money and Steve said it was in anticipation because the project was going to start that's how he explained it um if I can find the um so you're saying the 118,000 is in addition to the 1.3 375 no it's included included yeah meetings and documents I can pull up the town meeting um that was May fisal like Community preservation budget that's really quiet uh so I did go back and I found the May 7th uh T annual town meeting yeah and it does say free cash transfer to CPC and it was uh one sorry $18,350 uh that was to provide Debt Service uh P was supposed to provide Debt Service payments for the first year of the tennis cour right so that was actual real money that was transferred from for the de yeah anticipation of The Debt Service correct and but we don't have any Debt Service the would be in the budget yeah is it in our bucket now so it's not I don't think it's included in this one three because when um Michelle gave me that she said this doesn't include um the FY 25 budget hasn't been booked yet so you had said that um so if this money transferred in anticipation of us borrowing money why do they not want to do that now so um at the at the pcom meeting and SEL meeting the question was that if we were coming if we were able to get the extra $200,000 and not have to borrow money that they would rather just spend the money that they had rather than borrow as say but the town borrowing or the CPC borrowing because the original article of CPC yeah so it's the money was going to come out of CPC either in one chunk or in over a span of a few years we had originally I think wanted to spread it out over a few years because it left a little bit larger pile to right work on other projects in the end it costs us less yeah to do it all in one Chunk we just have a little B for yeah and Ryan I texted him and he said it is real money and it's recommended by Steve vudi who's the chair of income yeah because actually in a new new article for for next week the last line which is that 118 is being stricken and inserting in place of the project description is providing funding for the design and construction of the tennis ah it's different now yeah okay so for what when you were out of the room yeah carollyn was saying that the 200,000 is already in our budget so it's part it's not in addition to what we have the 200 years it's already in in but that was something that wasn't to be used unless it was approved by the light and waterers so I mean it is I know it seems like it's separated but it's just kind of explaining where each of those components are coming from I'm guessing it's a line separate line item for the treasurer that I don't know we'd have to check the finance to see they just zero that line item out so so yeah because the way this is this could be oh well we're just voting on 700,000 but we're really voting on 1 million $18,350 uh my is the 1560 that is either going to be borrowed or right well no that's that's yeah and then there's the 15 yeah and could we consider funding that you could I suppose um this was is the town so strapped that they can't I that I don't have an answer for you on that one yeah so the wording of the warrant is in that the 15650 be Borrowed by the treasurer who is authorized with the approval of the select board to issue any bonds or notes that may be necessary for that purpose as authorized and not to be not to exceed the maximum number of years authorized by law it does seems strange to borrow 15,000 well that's that's why it's to to be determined because it does seem a little silly for us to borrow for such a small amount so I think they knew that that that much was left over and they knew that they would pay it if for some reason they can't find the funds in the operating budget then they may have to discuss um borrowing those funds uh but I think that that well I know that that decision will be made before we get town meeting so we'll know what the 2B determined answer is um I just don't have that answer for you right now but it will be one or the other so then the next um question is how hard are these numbers I mean you haven't actually bid it yet what if what if our numbers have both of these numbers for both projects have a 20% contingency B that's yeah so the the tennis court and the Wickham project wait till we get to the next page yeah we can revisit this but I think we might want to hear the next yeah piece so uh the other pieces of this are so in addition we're working on the following to reduce project costs so collaboration with the D Department of Public Works during our initial design phase to identify where Highway Department can assist with reducing expenses me this would be site prep and you know things like that um we submitted an application and got conditional approval for $55,000 construction Grant or for up to a $55,000 construction Grant from the United States tennis Association uh there was an email that was sent to the um to the CPC and the other boards on that uh last week uh today we worked through and submitted the application for major league baseball youth development foundation so that generally is about a $25,000 Grant if it's accepted um and we're working with Litton Youth Sports organizations specifically soccer and baseball to identify give contributions to this project costs and what's the timeline for the when would we get the money a after is it one of those you have to build it and then you get it back like a reimburse tennis for tennis yeah so they'll they require uh it's all in that email as well um they require that they're kind of from the ground floor so they've assigned us the project manager to go through all the steps uh and then yes it's once the project is completed and it's met all the boxes then they give a a a check for the amount that they um committ it to so same thing with the Major League Baseball Grant and then um the youth sport organizations are kind of in the same boat they're waiting to kind of just take stock as once they have their elections and go through all their finances and see where everything parses out to see what they were able to help out with so when the M if if the money was to come in from these grants where would it go would it go to CPC correct so what we would do is the monies would be used essentially the money specifically like USA that money would go directly to you know whomever was paying the construction bills at that time so we wanted to spend the CPC funds we would return this so that money would be utilized to pay whatever cost we have out there and then CPC funds would just be returned as as they are in any other project so when they did the football field and when you say jet field are you referring to just the base soft softball so I hate to you know put this crestly but what is the naming rights worth I mean who did you get a did you get someone to name the Bas name the baseball fill and if you do have someone to hook will you ask an appropriate amount ofon Jeffy not for baseball so I believe the baseball Field's already named after one of the picks so I don't know that we would necessarily historically change that I think that would stay you could well I don't know how much money did they long I said they long titles of I tell you these unfortunately we said it's wickom field at such and such Park then I'm just you know you don't get money unless you ask for it he you yeah I think one of the things that you know we can look at too is um revisiting the idea of like sponsorships so a lot of the a lot of the other surrounding towns do sponsorships on the specifically their outfil fences that's been something that hasn't typically been done around here um so that's something that we could revisit with the schools and you know it it is currently being done down at the Shaker Lane field for the the little the small things so yes there's a potential that we could we cannot because we don't have a friend of but if we could find somebody who could like Youth Sports organizations things like that find some sponsorships and that is something we could potentially look into as well there is a little bit of that too right yeah um so lastly just to kind of last couple things in the application uh were that we've been in communication and collaboration uh with Dr Kelly clunch um the livon public school superintendent and Steve marks business manager um on this design and they are supportive of this project uh Mike Lyn the livon public school athletic director is supportive of this project uh the school committee approved to support and uh support the project and to allow construction on school property as needed and the park commission improved and support this project uh as written in the war article the finance committee and select board recommendations are forthcoming awaiting the outcome of this meeting um and they will be uh making that decision either joint meeting prior to town meeting or on the town meeting floor I think they it's usually like at 6:30 they have a meeting to kind of tie up all these things so more than likely then I think that's the timeline looks good but it seems pretty aggressive I hope it all falls into place two months seems very agressive what's that the timeline getting all the bids and estimates and fids and such and such well that's the all of that would start in November right the dates right so the actual build itself would be yes the two months which would be in June I'm saying it's all very aggressive however if you look at what actually needs to be done it's not a very um difficult project because go if you want to go into that a little bit more you can well I was just going to say so to answer your question about the birth process and the turn on we've been very actively speaking with the Architects um they're based out of Lexington um so this is once everything's kind of approved and ready to go um this is the timeline that they have given us to say this is what we need to hit part of the reason that this project wasn't going to be able to happen last year is we need to be on this timeline in order to book contractors for that June through August time frame so this is the this is the time frame that they would like to follow to see this happen I hope it works I hope so too um I'm pretty confident they've they've been very quick to turn around all of their answers and um they come you know highly recommended they're on the state bid list so um they'll put all the bids and everything out for us as well uh and they've done projects that are very similar uh pretty much identical to what we're trying to do to Wick them uh they were the company who just completed the baseball field in air so um very similar projects they have you know contractors and things uh exactly that they've already used for the scope of work we're looking for so as long as the bids come back appropriate then um we should be able to get everything going on that line I'm with you um so that's the full presentation um the application is in front of you and then myself and Al are here for any other questions that you guys might have propos mdle school would they be publicly accessible during and after school hours yeah so the request that's been made by the school department specifically uh principal everheart is that um the middle if if the courts are built at the middle school that they would be accessible to the school during the school hours um and then just like any other playing field priority would come to the school sports organizations prce organizations and then uh public and private organizations as there go would they be locked up kind of like a bit the tech though we not in use uh we haven't gotten that there will definitely be signage um something to the effect that you know courts are available to the public between this and this obviously during non school hours holiday weeks all those kind of things um what we would do is the high school courts would then become the public courts that would like exist out here um so the pickle ball memberships still go through Park and wreck now that we're at we will be at 36 King Street at the time we'll operate the same way they can come inside and get the equipment they can go up there are Gates on the back side of that court that they can access from the Indian Hillside so um that will become the more wrecked playing space and be much more available similar to how the town courts were gotcha so those will be available during like school hours yeah and what about the two courts they're they're not that bad I so a couple things about this so um I mean okay if you're playing a tournament they're bad but if you're just hitting the ball run the high school is the only one who who's actually authorized to use those okay the other piece to it is them they are actually pretty dangerous because all the manhole covers are right in the middle okay and then they're not manholes they're like anyway and then the there's ponding I'm I'm like uh on the planning board and it just rips us all that that was a useless Amendment um so that's all and you're talking of the course behind Weber Village yes yeah I mean I could see why Weber Village would want them accessible yeah I mean okay so my other question is like the mechanism for funding this so I know that we're looking to essentially withdraw the previous projects and to fund this new project like voted eligible and grant funding the way that it's written in the warrant though basically says that we're amending the previous project vote so I'm just curious is that kind of setting a that precedent that can be somehow put it through as a new project or town meetings purposes with eligibility and finding no I think so we've definitely had many conversations with Town administrator's office how we want to do this and um I think the easiest uh is to be able to say as this is say you know we're striking the following language and we're amending it to this because realistically you know the the heart of that project being the tenants courts is still the same that hasn't changed um it's just you know what we're getting out of it and the location um definitely does change um so I think it makes more sense to kind of do all of those components together as far as striking the old bringing in the new um I think that was the what they felt was the easiest way to just kind of you know tie everything out with the still kind of changing though it being a new project I'm just wondering with other projects that we previously approve though would it then be possible for us to go back into those projects and add a different scope you I'm fully supportive of the project I'm just wondering mechanism wise yeah I kind of wish that the Wickham field was separate and we amended the tennis court project if we were going to amend it [Music] um it's kind of a weird fing meis I especially because it's so much the the funding is different because now we're taking it all out of our bucket rather than only half like if you guys had an eligibility and funding request for new projects tonight I mean I feel like that would be I mean I would find it favorable I'm just wondering if we of going about it is a little messy kind of reopening our previous projects and changing the scope in dollar amounts I mean I will say we have done things like this before um I know when we had done uh Renovations on the Long Lake Beach we were a little too specific about things um so we had to go back and be able to change that wording so that we could include I don't know if it was like electrical electrical work or something wasn't originally included so this is something that we have done in the past we don't like doing it um but in in these sort of situations when you know we really are trying to turn something around um unfortunately this is kind of where we get stuck yeah yes car um I think there's sort of maybe two things at stake and that would help us with our action tonight um one is the eligibility I think that's more of a um policy type thing it's it's I think we should be strict with our own with ourselves to follow a process and talk about it and certify that the new project description is eligible for C funds that would be one thing the second thing about sort of what what uh Parks and Recreation is asking us tonight is that um it's just it's the money of it um and then I think what Tom needing needs to know according to CP law is that we would that we approve the spending of the money it comes down to the dollars so there's that there's that and the town hall recommends we do it that way um and they write the warrant articles like that I think we'd be safe so long as we are true to our process at least a little bit by saying we should discuss the eligibility and certify it I I agree because the key thing is the town meeting vot on spending this money is spelled out what the money will be used for and the only messiness is there was a previous project that you know went away right and however it is presented it should be that you know like okay well anyway it just needs I I I have no problem with the messiness as long as you know Comm meeting approves the expenditure yeah the other interesting thing is that the 700 just is appropriated from the Comm I'm reading what's on the screen now from the community preservation fund balance it doesn't give a bucket well we can identify the bucket right it does well then it says that the 200 from the reservation oh cuz so if you take a vote tonight then you could clarify that you want that money to come out of that Recreation budget right well do we do we or do we want to take some undetermined funds well let's talk about to the parking wre people I mean you're wiping out most of the money so this is your big play for a while yeah okay I mean the the reality is the benefits that we get out of this you know we've had a new field creation on the capital fund since I started here in 2016 every single year we've asked for that and you know it's kind of like okay next year okay next year um so with being able to you know over the the last few years Tim's done a really good job with the um Sports Council and really communicating to them on what they need and how we can use what we have in more efficient way so that we can meet those requirements that we were trying to hit with the 2017 Field Master Plan so by us this is kind of where the why it's important to have the witcom component um embedded with this is that with both of those projects that frees up the um there was that image if you can recall it again where there's the four fields that were out at the high school um and typically we have mixed use with like all of the fields so baseball would get um you know appropriated these days at that this time and then only the far end field could be used because that um the I guess the width of the field into the Outfield is such a large array that you know you can't use the second or third field at all so with moving baseball and it not being up there at all now you have that safe safe ability to be able to use those three fields or four if we chose to add on that one um so you're getting the benefit of we would be taking um the field need um the the new field creation off of Capital that's something that you know we wouldn't ask for that in the future um so that would be gone that's one huge project right then the addition is um I think the last few years we put on like a the pickle ball courts um and so that was something we talked about potentially putting in um the back corner of the 36 King Street area now because those pickle ball courts exist over at the high school that project's gone right so you think about the savings that you're getting because you are all you're all we're doing is just shifting things around um rehabilitating a few things and we're fixing all of our problems that we need for sports use which is huge we've been trying to figure that out forever so this is ultimately that solution for that so yes the the big projects um with any of the athletic stuff that that's done and and could you explain to uh the board about the potential competing demand for the Wickham field site that has gone away now you mean for the school school yeah so um that was one of the reasons why uh we unfortunately had to bring this late to um the the CPC um the wickom site was chosen as potential for them building a new elementary school um so they're looking at replacing shager Lane um their Architects had come up with uh uh renovations to the current building rebuilding on the site um at Shaker Lane in a few different locations and then they also had talked about wanting this campus idea um because it would be essentially the Middle School um Brussel Street Elementary and then you know Shaker or whatever they decided to call it which would be there on wicom um naming rights so ultimately um you know they went through their process of selection of which sites that they would choose um witcom was thrown out I would say relatively earlyish or like middle of the road um for a few different reasons um and the the sites that that were chosen to go to the state so there's like three three different choices so one choice was to do the renovation um at Shaker lane and then one would be um the essentially doing it in the first baseball field um and then essentially they would demolish the old building and put those fields in um or the back field so those those are the three choices that they have actually sent to the state um once you send those off to the state the other sites are no longer in play um so we did get the approval of the Town Administration with the green light to go ahead with this project because they were no longer considering uh what can field for that location for a it's not it's not in your prview but the the school department is okay with having the high school baseball sort of remote from the high school now so all the high school sports there's there's no one at the high school right now except for S so and that was one of the things if you go back and watch the meetings when Mike Lyn's talking about is there's always going to be transportation to the Middle School site the minute that they decided they were going to build Alumni field and field there and the track that became the basically the athletic epicenter for the for all Youth Sports and high school sports in the town won so it actually makes things easier for the High School athletics because all the kids right can get on um the buses together and it's not just like here in the past with tennis they'd have to bring them out here to do some of the games and then sometimes High School they'd have to switch them so yeah so this does consolidate the Athletics together so this is the language right now that's in the just can do just about the eligibility for our own process and move that and yeah I don't think there's much question I just right because we because of the addition of the baseball field it's different eligibility than we previously voted on it's where kind of hung up by I would say it's definitely an eligible projects I'm just trying to play it up my mind you know because it is technically a new project as opposed to amending that's it's a shame that they kind of want that route yeah because I mean if they just put resend the previous article and then new CPC article right after it slam dunk but the way that it's kind of listed here is like a um it's just agree it's kind of a weird precedent where like if a project gets funding down the road you could potentially come back and ask for more under the same expand the scope um again I support the project I'm just I don't want to set a bad presedent I don't see a problem that because we're we have to um approve the money in town meeting anyway regardless of how it comes before the project change change the scope if it's still eligible and we still agree with it then so one of the things that came up as we were talking through this is to do these as two separate projects and to contract it as such there's additional fees so initially you know there it was estimated there's about A3 to $60,000 difference depending what the scope work would have been on with them to bid these out as two separate projects so instead of spending $112,000 once or whatever the cost would be minus the baseball field we'd basically be bidding out two sep of projects so we we'd have more of a design construction and bidding process which was why the two um when we spoke about it were tied together um the other piece is in compiling this like Alicia said you know utilizing 2016 numbers and the numbers that we're currently using for pickle ball uh and the tennis court project if you take those numbers put them all together obviously it's a little not accurate because it does some of those numbers are very old yeah we we take about what the town was going to tolerate for about $3.6 Million worth of projects that could have potentially happened not that you know that money was ever really going to be spent to putting this under and meeting the needs for what we say is approximately the next five to you know eight years for the Youth Sports in the high school is as far as space needs um you know we we're showing like a $2.2 million cost savings overall will you need to present that that way I mean people will respond to that yeah which is why ultimately we decided to tie them together because we had the the design construction and bid process being put together same company What will what will then probably happen is may come down a little bit because in theory the same fence contractor will bid both jobs so they'll be buying more stuff in bulk doing the tennis court and so that's where some of this stuff saves US money by bidding it out together absolutely in theory I think it made perfect sense to to lump them it's just a shame that it wasn't kind of listed as a new project you know what I mean like grouped together and then listed as a new as opposed to amending a previous project I wish I had a better answer for you we did work with the town administrator's office we did consult Town Council yeah we did even go as far as saying like can any of this be paid out of the rec revolving which that is something that you know was deemed absolutely not um so in getting all those answers and working with Ryan to rewrite the article this is kind of where everything landed and I mean Saul does have a fair point that if if somebody were to come back and amend something in the future it still lays with you to make that decision to to say yes or no right so um even though somebody May request that change or an amendment um at the end of the day you still hold the power whether that happens or not again fully support the project just want to make sure that we're doing it the right way y yeah because we don't really have even a line out and budget of what's being spent all right something about the eligibility we don't have an eligibility in front of us but we can vote when you say line item budget what what numbers specifically were you looking well I mean the last one I guess the numbers were were not true numbers but we had I think that was the one we had you know what was going to be spent for this what I mean for the B for the baseball you know how you we don't know what you're spending on baseball and Y so hang on one second I'll I'll pull the I'll pull that up I can if you'd like I can amend that as well so in the initial um in the initial conversation with activitas so for design bid construction documents a whole package that comes along with that and getting us to the point where we're actually starting construction um that was $112,000 for that package um is that included in this that is we are paying for that so that was where we had looked and said hey can we jump start this and pay for this out of the rec revolving fund and it was something that was shot down um so $112,000 is the design construction and bid uh process um for four asphalt tennis courts fencing surfacing equipment with a 20% contingency is $600,000 uh improvements to wh and baseball field including new back stops netting fencing team areas concrete pads benches shelters Outfield fence also with a 20% contingency was 350,000 so that's where we come up with our entire project cost I think we should can you type that out I can 100% amend that into the document on the way that was written out in there that just wasn't really a good place to put that so I can absolutely make number six to put that in there for you forward that to me and I'll go print it so do you want me to do that I'll just would you write you just want in the CPC in the document I sent you yesterday yeah that's fine yeah I'll just amend that right the only thing I can think of that would sort of um that's worth asking is um are there anything that would be considered a stadium about this project or is there use of artificial turf no turf at all no Turf and no Stadium at all so we're not constructing bleachers or walls or anything like that to the effect of concourses all those kind of things so and that was one of the things that we did um already bet was this does not fall under that is there any additional parking costs so we're not going to add any parking we're not renovating it in such a way that we're going to see an influx in parking because like I said since the sewer project started um we've utilized this space for baseball even prior to that it's just that's where JV and youth typically played the other piece is is we are taking away a large portion of the user group because soccer is now going to the high school they're no longer coming to Wickam field um and the track to play so we're taking you know a large part of that number which is between six and 700 kids who are showing up throughout the week and Saturdays and Sundays for games um and moving them completely up to the high school space that's currently not being utilized with the exception of the fall soccer season so the m just to kind of go back to your point um the only thing the only components that are being um added on to that Wickam field would be dugouts um I think batting cage so they were all listed in this yeah the on Deck um Circle so to speak um I think there would be a fix to the back stop and an addition of um like a fence or netting so that if there there's popups that they're not going to go into the parking lot and break people's windows um and uh I believe a home run fence right in the back so the whole fence the whole field to be fenced in it'll have netting to protect the cars Onex circles um it'll have dugouts full dugouts just like a jet field would you say there you go um here's a different question but um would you say that um it's more creating Recreation or rehabilitating and restoring Rehabilitation and restoration so this is a field that currently exists and we're really rehabilitating it to the state of play that is accustom that the players are accustomed to uh both you know like like I said we were looking to get it to the level of where at softball field currently is and when you look at fields in our surrounding communities that the varsity baseball teams are playing on it'll make this a comfortable site if you go up to the varsity baseball field as it sits up there even though it's in quite bad disrepair right now there's dugouts there's batting cages there's on De circles there's things that don't exist at Wickham the only reason we moved them down there was you know at the time it was sewer project and we found that you know through all the things I already mentioned you know they were getting fans showing up down there it really just became a better product for baseball um it also gave us the ability to now have a home for youth sports that we didn't have people behind in high school so are are those structures being removed so right now the plan would be to and Carolyn if you go back to that soccer slide um and this is kind of just a we're always thinking about what the net uh down please I'm sorry the one with the yeah so we're always thinking about what could potentially come next and if you really look at that right slide right there you'll notice there's a baseball field of much smaller stature um ideally we would moth ball the varsity field we would keep it as is for now there's also a softball field that hasn't been used up there I know my daughter's played on the softball field on the left what we thought about is rather and why I say we can paint three Fields potentially in the future we can put a fourth is we've thought and decided that we're going to keep those two Fields kind of mothballed um until we know what the Shaker Lane project brings because we may lose Cooper and Ken white and a very minimal cost we can then skim those infields and have two fields to replace those very quickly while the construction's going on and because they're smaller Fields they still won't have the impact on those three Fields because the Outfield fences are so much shorter it wouldn't be a long term it would just be till and then once you know Cooper and white or the sh Lane project because those fields are to be replaced in in the design of the school once that happened that's why I say you know then we could look at you know sting doing whatever we had to do and we could have that fourth field brought online which it by that time that would be more growth potential that we save ourselves and it's really again wasn't again it's a nominal cost when we're talking about doing you know grass to get a couple you know thousand square feet of grass to get an entire soccer field rather than having to build one from stretch yeah I'd like to make a motion um I move that the creation of four new tennis courts and the rehabilitation of Wham baseball field are eligible for CPA funding as Rehabilitation and restoration of recreation assets can I amend to say that tennis is a creation right tennis courts are a creation L field is a rest right the creation and the rehabilitation restoration of recreation assets and then I'll second so we have a motion by m a second by Sal does anyone need a motion repeated um if not we're all here so we can take a vote vote all in favor oh does that yeah never mind the uh um in favor of the motion of Eligibility by m please say I I opposed anyone so that's eligible does seem like a much better outcome than way back I know yeah well I think the funds should come all out of the recreation bucket based on some of the discussion we've had on tonight that would be my suggestion but I think we need to aggregate the total amount rather than this line item like 700 200 it is actually in the article yeah there is that I have a here I guess it's it's slightly aggregated in the article but it it does say appropriate the 9 two trunks okay 915 650 however the 95 1835 yeah you'd have to subtract that 15 650 um because if you so it says a rate which is the 700 uh and the 200 yeah have um and then if you scroll down it'll say and yes that's the 18 is the 18 which they've changed the project description Caroline I um I'd like to just think about maybe dipping into Reser uh undesignated funds as well love what you say Liv makes sense and it's all Recreation that you're talking and and um yeah and jeffy's question directly to Alisha was excellent and Alicia said yeah we'll we'll just we'll have to we've been planing on this we'll we'll spend all our money on this um I'm not trying to manage how Park and Recreation manages their projects and asks for the money they can do that but I think um we as a committee should think about um other stakeholders or stakeholders other community members or projects that could come to us we could get approach tomorrow by by a private citizen say who said I have a recreation project and we'd say well you know we're going to have to go to reservation uh undesignated funds for that um we could do that but it might also just be prudent to say um to sort of draw lines say you know we we want to allow for the possibilities that other people could propose Recreation projects this this is not an entitlement to um that department of our town um and and also I think um I'd like to leave you know I'd like to forecast that there'd be other needs for recreation as well Parks and Recreation and Community Education um I think like Long Lake for instance and that that there's uh discussions around how we spend our money we'll have that tonight as well how we spend money for our Lakes um town hall is really asking the town manager is asking that people um take a real comprehensive or hybrid approach to funding things and I think what what we're talking about now is the opposite of a hybrid approach give them all the money they ask from one bucket so I think one thing that I would like to point out is you know in the past when we've talked about CPC projects it has been something that's very uh Department Centric in working on specifically a park um and some of the other projects one of the things that this particular project in in in this big ask is the department as as the town Department we don't really gain a lot from doing this project um this project is very Centric towards being conducive to the school department and the high school teams this is very very geared towards the Youth Sports organizations who we represent as a stakeholder in all of these things so when we're looking at it and saying you know the town Department it's really not that in this case this is something that we've come up with to put together to meet the needs of the entire community of Littleton um like I said the schools are going to be the highest User Group out of most of this project as well as the youth organizations interesting because you could sort of read that that argument could go break both ways be um and and then the absent person at this meeting tonight is the school department maybe they're not absent but they're through you or through the process I haven't heard uh time and again there's the question always comes up well are they able to put some skin in the games and we have asked them in the past and yeah but I will say that with the the High School tennis ports they did um they had held off on doing the resurfacing and fixing of the cracks um and ultimately when we decided that using that location um to add on those tennis courts was going to be more costly than we wanted it to be they just went and did it so they have actually put money into fixing those courts resurfacing them repainting them um and they're kind of back to a brand new state so they did they did do that and that was in the in the neighborhood of 45 and change just so you guys are aware of that they did have that because obviously they were maintaining those Fe those courts and that was in some a budget that they had so they did go ahead and and kick in that so that could come off of this project and they did paint the pickle ball Port lines too which they didn't have to do so and when we did get Playing Fields when high school was built through that project the socc field um behind High School yeah which is the ones that we're talking about trying to free up by moving the varsity basement right yeah that wasn't paid for by CPC that was the state in the town the other the other argument I to to this point is that a big portion of this P Court replacement is really related to the center on chck street not Recreation I mean it's replacing but it's the is the construction of the center it wasn't really included in that project so that L some weight to the idea of pulling something from the undesignated fund the beginning cost but the final outcome is much improved over just two tennis score oh yeah I mean yes the but the yeah if if that project either hadn't happened or they had included replacing the tennis courts in the project we wouldn't be here talking about this I am more swayed by what it and and you're saying um but thinking of other stakeholders open space historic affordable housing you know they could also use undesignated funds in the future as opposed to some undesignated funds going towards this project do we know how much is curently in the reserve for undated this was 730,000 before fiscal year 25 budget numbers I think they're still closing so probably a little more because I don't think we really used what would what would your percentage be that you would suggest that we I mean is that how you want to do it like take take I'd like to hear what other people are thinking because it sort of goes both ways because if we if there's low money in Recreation bucket it comes for recreation we can CPC can only so much here and then we can go to undesignated then that true it is very flexible money whereas Recreation money has to go towards a recreational go right um just thinking a little bit about the my reference to the lakes and then we'll talk about it more but I think that's a good example of um we might want to leave some money available to manage I might have UND designated yeah I guess it could yeah my mom used to say it was six one half do of another so yeah I I mean I don't honestly the only thing about undes it is much more flexible right but in this case though we don't for eligibility we don't need flexibility it's straight forward we've got toe the project looking forward should we should project in the future we'd have more flexibility if we took all of this out of recreation so Linda I'd stick with your original thing I'd support that if you made a motion yeah are we ready to do that I guess any other discussion the only thing i' say is I think we probably want to ask the ta's office to put that into the article as an amendment yeah so we'll have to have a an insert I'm assuming there'll be a handful of inserts yeah whichever we use should be in this article just a quick sticking point too um do we formally have to take that money that was previously allocated back to then give it to this new project I don't think so I I mean I think I don't know again you know they've written the article with this in mind the TA T's office and the council went through it so I'm assuming that they have I guess because it hasn't been expended yet either I mean if we already given it to them we'd have to take it back but it's just or or just give them the difference I mean if you want to be safe just to cover you could make a a vote to resend that project and then another one that would fund well we could vote to to um agree with that's not the verb I want but agree with the Striking of the language and the substitution you know what I mean could is there flexibility where we can withdraw that project and then vote to approve eligibility and funding I don't think we need I think I I think the probably the appropriate thing to do is just to approve the proposed article oh because it includes both because it includes both right so it has striking Ys I mean I this is not how I would do it no not at all you know and I feel I feel a little like we're we're just expected to do this um not nothing against the the project it's just the mechanics of you know we're we're building we're we're giving you money for a project that hasn't even been bid on we're we have a you know something that we've approved now we're changing it for like you say a different scope but we're also under the gun I mean and it's like I said it's if we say no tonight we're going to get a call tomorrow morning said you know meet again in 48 hours and revote that you know I I just don't see them right yeah could we have a motion that's just about um approving project um that the project be approved for funding at so many dollars from the recreation like very CPC relevant like money decision and then we could do a very generic vote well I think we need to vote at this one because we need to have that 200,000 we have to have we have to say something about we have to say something um explicit about that 200,000 because that's a gift that was expected to go against an article yeah and based on how we vote it's kind of problematic too how it aligns with what's printed in two which is we're voting eligibility and funding for a new projects and we're not explicitly saying let's vote to amends the previous project you kind of get what I'm saying I mean you kind of you kind of are by voting in this the first the first part of it lot of technicalities really but well I mean I know it's in the interest of every's time not to have another meeting but is it something that we do need to no I think we can do it tonight don't you think I do I mean it goes to tell meting Flor right you know and that's it it will be discussed that and I'm assuming you will be doing a presentation will you do the same it'll it'll most likely be the same presentation as it did tonight I know Verity is isy there items items like the there is a slide that does include the um breakdown of cost you know even with their old costs you know the savings to the town approximately $2.2 million by doing things this way the potential to give us that five to 8ye growth potential and the ability to have those you know placeholders for fields for the shap Ling project so that we're not you know net negative Fields when that comes to pass the goal is not to be in the same situation we were with the tennis courts we're planning ahead for that now saying that it's going to cost us X in that period of time to bring those online so couple things are going to be added to that effect I think we should do a hybrid vote of like mitt suggested a CPC normal vote and a vote to accept and amend the town warrant articles what would we say well I I'm just going to say that the other aspect of this we've already had town meeting approval for the tennis so what's really happening is we're adding on the baseball field now corre have this issue I'm presenting something and sping it at me like what if you know people support this but not that but it's combined in one thing you may have someone that jumps up and says I don't want to spend money on a baseball field but this whole project for us to be able to take the new field creation pickle ball courts all of that stuff off the table for future Capital requests all depends on both of these if we can't I think you can make the argument I'm just as a procedural thing I hope that we've done our job and and the Youth Sports organizations having a huge stake in this game um you know it sounds like their constituents and everybody is you know very supportive of this and that they're going to show up in order to to show that the small town meetings or for yeah I so we we have soccer and baseball have been heavily included in these in these meetings um they they have been you know every day emails like where are we at with this what are we doing so um I think it's very likely that we're going to see a very large consy show up in support of this so Carolyn what's the article number four four four if we working sort of in the reverse order from what I said earlier but the second thing we do tonight is to say we as a committee article four then then town meeting will deal with all that and they'll make sure that that the vote happens that way and that that's the vote that's going to matter that on that night for the articulation of all the different dollars and stuff yeah we just want to say need to in our in our approv application for funding might be this place where we say with 200,000 coming from the previously earmarked funds from the whatever it was poper regroup we could put that in our first vot the application for Fone cover everything are we ready for yeah yeah need to Mo make a motion to close the previous High School transport project app take that off the table we send it close it on which pick order um approve 700,000 from the recreation budget 200,000 from the water department gift Recreation bucket it's actually I think the 242 King Street okay um gift yeah there you go and 118,00 350 also from the Recreation or this project and then the 15650 that gets D not our problem right not C that's going to be that's the authorization piece for the treasur to borrow or to be used from the town budget right so that's not our issue can we bump it up to eliminate that dat you not to go that but I would assume that finance and the town Administration have gone through that chose and hopefully we from and hopefully Andre we're gonna you know at least I'm hoping that this USDA Grant will come through in some form which then that you know becomes a move Point yeah all right could you name the projects that we're closing again or maybe High scho High School tennis courts that was a motion that was a motion I second oh good ex oh good I'm G to wait for our scribe to subcribe moved at the previous CPC project of the high school who who seconded did yeah that do previous CPC project of the high school Tennis Court Rehabilitation be closed and that the there was three parts to it I didn't get the second part and fund the new project with 700,000 from the recreation budget and that the um tennis field project what is it really just 800 18,350 yes yes yes the the two numbers are coming out of the right those those so they're just telling us they came from plac sorry um 800 $18,350 from the recreation budget be approved for funding 700 plus 118 CPC from which fund Recreation articul plane field projects of 1015 2024 be approved for funding by CPC from Recreation Fund in what amounts 700,000 88,000 combine it oh you going to combine it it makes 18,350 and 200 from the 242 King Street gift 200,000 which gift2 King Street and then I have one other thing to either add to this or is a separate motion or we need to amend the warrant article to say that it's coming out of the recreation yes second okay Saul moved Jeffrey seconded that the previous CPC project of high school Tennis Court Rehabilitation be closed and that the tennis court and plane field project of 1015 2024 be approved for funding by CPC from the recreation fund in the amount of $818,000 3350 and $200,000 from the one 242 King Street gift it say um the 1800 18,000 just to modify that comes from Reserve Recreation Reserve so I imagine they'll probably have to do like a green sheet or an orange sheet for this right would be updated yeah because they didn't they didn't specify the I think I what I was let's finish this one all right so um we had a a motion by Saul seconded by jff and red p m all in favor of that motion please say I opposed thank you okay yeah so what I would say is let's let's have Carolyn ask the ta's office yeah so I mean the way we this either amend it right we we've said how it's going to be done so either let's ask does it need to be in the article if it does amend it in a green sheet if it doesn't yeah because the way that we voted it makes perfect sense like boom here you go we sending the previous one we're approving the new project I just want to make sure that that's reflected in the right right the actual I guess I don't know if it matters whether the article itself calls out which bucket it comes from we can always mention that that well it it it should should so so I think we just asked them to put someone's going to ask us and we're not and well well you have the numbers of the amounts in the bucket I mean that's the Cory T yes we will I'll talk to Michelle make sure she can get me the updated okay so we're we're not going to deal with that yeah so we should we should deal with that so I will make hopefully the final motion on this topic to support the article 4 as written with at or support Article 4 amended to designate the funds come from the recreation I fund I don't want to throw wrench into it sorry the way that we voted it we Clos the article as opposed to amending it can we roll with that because technically no we we Clos the old project they didn't got article four is what's written in the warrant already it's been there and published and out so no exactly but I mean like we were mending C's project in article yeah or but technically we're closing it and approving I know semantics not because the only thing we're doing here is saying that this will come from Recreation because it doesn't say here Recreation just says Community preservation act Bal but the numbers may be a little different but I think we're talking about where this is all crossed out this is I mean we're and it substitute the language yeah I don't I mean we could have do we have to do that though I mean does we're controlling the purse by the vote that we just made and they're going to get the money and we determined where it came from article four doesn't have to say that but but they can they can state that like on the floor that you guys did vote and that your vote specifically said where the money should come from and I could put that on the final slide supported by Boards and committees that can totally be if you if you want I can put that right into the presentation I'm not trying to demand anything I just don't want to I don't want to inadvertently Scuttle this absolutely we don't want to do that I don't think that you will I think I mean you're just adding that clarification piece to it that's all so do we need sols motion so what I'm worried about is our motion was to close that this is to amend it in the article language you kind of get what I'm saying like yeah I but can we just sever the like what's been suggested sever of the bucket from this whole thing just I mean as more of a clarification as it have to be included in article four maybe not yeah so what we were doing was not really for the article it was for people see this is how we want to do it and then we're saying okay then with the article I guess the question is I I mean I think we need to vote to support the article yeah if we do V to support the article I mean but if say the article hadn't been written yet we would have we would have appr the project right and then you know weeks later they would have come back and we would have support the article so now we're just doing it like all at once right but we are kind of dividing it into the two votes so we're approving the project and then we're supporting the article the other question is do we want to amend the article and I'm fine if we don't I guess I'm fine if we don't I don't want to cause any trouble at their meeting by trying to amend it I mean if the question occurs what is your intention where is this money what CPC plans are going to use say It's Our intention to use Recreation I we did vote on that so we do have we have our minutes we have our vote we won't have yeah whatever all right I'll take I'll tell re revise my motion to say I move we vote to support article FL as published in the second like I like I said I can go through and clarify that that is the recreation bucket in my presentation that's making so much sense me now thank you I agree so my my vote still stands are we still un on that we haven't vote on that yet we have to vote on it somebody has to Second it is this the second motion by saw Yes I don't understand how this one's different than the other one because the first one who wanted to amend the article now we're saying we won't amend the before we vote I just I have issues with the previous vote that we made and I just deleted something some the minutes because I thought your second [Music] motion was to say you would have done the first motion differently undo undo and I maybe I'll just come into this a little late but I'm I'm understanding that that it already says amend article 10 something that we previously did business on and we just undid the business that they're referring to there I have problems with that that's the yeah that's I agree but we at this late date we can't really no we support Article 4 as the second thing we do tonight I'm repeating my earlier thing and we just simply say we we approve the project for funding at this dollar amount and we don't undo any past business so in the first vote we shouldn't have resented and we should just have approved the the project straight I mean honestly from an out from just 10,000 fet the old project was the old project so whether you say that you know that was previously supported and we've realized that hey this is whether you close the old project or not you're not closing the old article you're just saying the old project doesn't exist anymore we're approving a new project or we're approving a updated project whatever that might be because the article is the article you're still amending article 10 whether that's striking it out is saying that you're closing the old project and approving a new project that's essentially What's Happening Here Yeah it's just a shame that I was worded yeah do we want to do we want to strike that vote and start over oh no why can't I think we're overthinking I why can't we just leave it that it was rescinded that we voted to close it like we did is that a problem so if we vot to close it though then we're going to time meeting say revising it so we can't revise something that's resed do that make any sense I just said it was done I see I don't care the project was finished closed done done absolutely it's done new project approves going forward yeah so but we have to because that money is coming back to CPC allocated never went away from all right so in our minutes we can resend it but we don't have to do anything about the we can just accept approve the article yes but I I mean so at the base of all this is sort of like a uh dealing with this money in a proper way there is no way that someone can put their hand out and get that $700,000 that we previously approved so I don't know I think we are overthinking it I mean just support the article on right my interpretation was that the first vote that you all took was clarifying that you wanted those funds to specifically come out of that re Recreation fund and then I would say Saul's second um motion of supporting article then just kind of TI up I mean we we could say that we are allocating $700,000 for this project that was and refer to the one that we and just say as you know what's the word superseding the previous project from the main County whatever and so I love the motion I mean perfect sense boom done approved the new project I'm just worried that that'll conflict with what's in here now I don't I don't think it does either I okay assuming that wees a second motion all moved Jeff Jeffrey seconded Linda um that the committee support special town meeting article four is that what you said y I'm going to take the vote that first we didn't mention article four we didn't right true so this is committee members I will go I Motion in a second yeah all in favor of that motion please say I I oppos okay so the brand trust really I yeah I think probably you know either the ta's office or the Town Council whoever came up with this should have been here to help us long yes well we made suggestions sorry for the long Mee text right now Littleton youth soccer and baseball would like to say thank you we have thank you as well for helping usor sorry for the uh The Late Late in the game changes here we appreciate it and it'll do a lot of good for down so thank you what's the rally C for tennis um just don't forget your flash flash Lake people sorry this is we just toring you all yeah um I don't know if you um you stayed so any guest that you still want to uh talk we have um actually I was approached by Resident Rob BR um to have this on the agenda to kind of start some talks about um Lake um funding um and we have members of the clean Lakes committee here as well and Mitt wer who will return shortly is also member of clean Lakes just um full disclosure so ra do you want to how do you is are you the one who's going to speak to well I can speak to why I requested the agend item I do want to say that I very much appreciate not only you're welcoming me tonight but I know I've been year before speaking with you and you've extended those courtesies in the past and then I've also attended some of your previous meetings in which I've you know witnessed some of your members having discussion about the need for Lakes fun in light of the cell tower you know transition of a couple years ago and so I appreciate what I see as a very conserved and diligent effort to come to terms with regard to the need for new funding sources and in that regard Carolyn I I'll throw out to you that you were the second person to in your discussion State I think we need a stakeholder meeting and that actually prompted me to pursue Jim Dugen with regard to convening what then was you know held and many of you attended a meeting in August um initiated by Jim discussed aspects of the need for funding of the water treatments since the previous funding didn't happen so in that regard I'll just say and I heard m in essence give reference to I think where I find myself as a resident I'm not a member of c l not a member of any Town organization but I am someone who has taken a keen interest with following the bouncing ball and trying to provide four the water treatments to protect littleton's lakes in that regard um I'm here tonight for nothing of the magnitude that you've just discussed in fact um I won't I informally put a dollar value that's less than $1,000 along with the project that can I is it safe to assume you distributed what I sent one Monday to everyone that yes what was that with the pictures of the the um the diver assist I put it on a PowerPoint and I can't get the PowerPoint so as you're doing that in order to move it keep going it's referred to as Dash diver assisted suction harves it's not been previously used in Littleton but it has been used in other parts uh with regard to ponds and lakes it's something which is involves a sequence operation that literally goes in and pulls up the roots such that the plant isn't just trimmed and potentially spliced off and regenerating elsewhere rather it is plucked and removed and in that regard I've shown you a photo um that that shows the current condition of of the Long Lake Beach area the particularly the swim boox area and it's it's that that I think there's potentially a great alignment should clean Lakes who has the responsibility to identify what necessary water treatments are are needed to preserve and maintain our Lakes is there them to be aligned with Park W that has in its mission to you know uh provide for outdoor recreation activities I believe and wanted to just bring up briefly as as I'm almost concluding on this remark the aspect that I think somewhat like mitt was saying a resident could come and say hey I think there might be a recreation project or a recreation eligible project for you to consider and this is one that I think would be uh a great improvement with regard to somewhat minimal funds um needed in order to clean up that swimbox area that often I hear people you know quite frankly um hesitant to go in because two feet off of the the shoreline they're confronted with weeds that you know are in their ankles and it just proceeds out to the dock can I bring up something that we have discussed before is this considered maintenance and we can't cover maintenance I think it could technically be but is open space preservation because you're preserving the natural environments um these species do pose a threat to ecosystems and other plant life so in a way like we've done in the past we have argued that that is open space preservation with the last couple of projects that went through town meeting than which projects uh the island removal at long we've done a quat invasives in the past as well so it would technically be considered uh preservation of open space the same thing on land we've done land invasive land control that's considered a space preservation project so yeah so be president can I add to that absolutely the um I did some research on the CP um on the community preservation Coalition resource database of projects and there's ones dating back to 2017 for invasive species in Northampton dredging of a pond in Plymouth um Welsley Tisbury Northampton and other towns have all done projects great and most of them are categorized as open space they say that pretty open space so wouldn't be Recreation would be open space and hopefully it's not a maintenance it's a improve it and improve the overall conditions and then come back immediately let okay that's great yes I think this is the I'll conclude just by saying that I'll absorb what the discussion that you just had I find myself as a resident believing that the whole cell tower has placed us in a new day in Littleton with regard to how I'm going to approach thece and the park and rec commission and potentially even CPC certainly CLC with regard to expanding the concept that I believe exists in the park and recogition Mission with regard to providing outdoor recreation I believe outdoor recreation can extend instead of just being landbased to our water bodies and yet I do not uh want to make my statement lead to any extensive discussion among you tonight I just want to say that that's a position that I find myself increasingly you know trying to you know consider because I think the town of Littleton residents have been able to somewhat not consider their water bodies because of the existence of CLC and the cell power funding that in effect didn't require Town votes and it was just kind of out of sight so to speak and it's not that way anymore so with that unless you have questions specific to what uh Carolyn distributed to you I thank you for the opportunity to speak to you tonight just to bring it up I hope to um convey this request to clean legs committee they me tomorrow I hope that they will support Dash treatment for this swimbox area and as they go about their establishment of the fiscal year and next fiscal year budget thank you for your time so John um as you're still chair I assume clean LS are you is this something that was on your radar also or you have are you formulating well all of our budget is kind of in flux right now because of our funding situation but uh this is this is one of the areas we were going to bring to you uh we talked it around past few Mon and uh in regard to Long Lake and also other Lakes uh that might profit but from this process kind of ler intensive and as a result more expensive than than typical but it also promises to literally remove the plants uh so they wouldn't be back uh just throwing again uh the ongoing problems with with legs of course uh contends with somebody going in and cutting down uh whatever nuisance plants are underwater and it almost they almost come back stronger uh or or or denser and so this this seems like it would be something that would be more of a long-term solution um and so we're talking things around very conscious of the idea that uh that this committee does not support maintenance uh we would like to present lakes and streams in Littleton as projects in themselves as entities that really we need to care for uh mil Pond of course uh is is one of our Prime examples of what can happen uh if things are neglected for such a long time uh and and really uh forces Beyond anyone's control uh have kind of ruined milpond for what it could have been uh and and it continues to be polluted today uh so it really derailed our restoration project but uh but understandably so I think it point so uh so yeah it's a it's a it's a an ongoing concern has been for 25 years it will continue to be a concern and we're happy to share our concerns with you and you had said that you fully expect to come to us with some projects for the for for the next couple of years I think that's the that's the primary uh directive that we are getting uh I'm hoping for some designated funds uh through the select board but again knowing their finances at this point I don't expect too much too soon uh so again uh we appreciate at least being heard uh and and realize that we're we're breaking new ground here to a certain extent and well appreciate your here and park W do you have any anything in your budgets for water cleanliness is that we don't um and we' had a few conversations um with Rob in the past two I think um you know Long Lake itself is uh under the beach anyways under the care and custody of Park and Breck and I think you know that makes sense to try to figure out ways that we can help with Long Lake um we're not really involved with any of the other Lakes so I don't know if those make sense um but we've tried to to come up with some ideas of potentially how we could make money um one of the challenges that we have is and you know I had this conversation with Rob is we're not like Light and Water right we can't you know we're not it's not an absolute I mean I think we would disagree it's not a necessity for someone to to sign up for the recreation programs so when we do our budgeting you know we're going off of what we think we're going to make for the year um there's no guarantee that we're going to make that amount so for us to say like sure we we can you know save up x amount and try to you know turn that over a we're not sure if we're allowed to do that yet that's something that's got to be um verified by uh the town solicitor if we are allowed to do that it's hard to say we can give you x amount of money because we don't know what we're going to take in right so I think you know we've we've had very high level discussions and know are there things that we could add to the user fees to maybe help yeah with some of this you know obviously the answer is yes we can look into what we are able to do you know and not something but could we add could we add an additional fee to the beach pass that that money goes right you know when the state turned the boat ramp over to us just like other boat ramps like when you go on the cape you pay for the boat ramp it's $20 to do it we as the park commission have they have the power to decide if that became from free to a charging and that fee could be something that's based on cing a flakes there's there there are opportunities out there that are not the money that's brought in by PRC programming and out of the revolving fund that clean lakes and park commission and everybody else could talk about um that you know obviously it's it's good for us we we want to keep the lake clean we want that area to be swimmable we want the sailboat to be able to go out on the water and not we want the paddlers to go out and the fishermen to go out and not have issues losing tackle and fishing line and everything else so you know the larger conversation I don't think is where can it come out of the recreation bucket but what are opportunities for us to generate Revenue that's specifically earmarked to go to that yeah you know the bigger piece that I would say is you know we do have a lot of people who just come to the beach especially after hours so they don't want to buy a beach pass my you know thing would be to encourage those people to buy a beach pass to help some of this stuff actually be able to happen you know a lot of the monies that we bring in the beach doesn't make a lot of money we lost money last year we were about $72,000 in the negative based on the projects that we did this year we're going to be in the negative again we installed a $25,000 pathway um 30 $30,000 pathway um that you know wasn't funded by the town we didn't do a CPC request we didn't budget for it but it was something that was brought to the town administrator's office and we were asked to execute so those are the kind of things that you know we do cover from time to time and we are big proponents of helping where at and every single time that we can but we do need help from especially the surrounding community and the users of you know that area and the non the users that you know don't purchase passes to understand that these are some of the things that we're trying to generate for good in order to put money toward works you know this year conservation wasn't able to do it so you know we found ,000 $2,000 to get a dumpster for the invasive species pool that came out of the rec budget yeah so there's there are all of these projects that were currently you know hey can you help can you help can you help yes but eventually we just can't tolerate that because it's it's an unknown right yeah for sure it's a shame we couldn't have funded that walkway for you guys that would have been a perfect project I mean that was something that just well on round about way we saved that money and you did tonight so yeah I mean it seems that these Lake projects could come under Recreation you know based on what you were saying I mean technically though um when it comes to like the he of the lake though I don't know how do we fit under the recreation side of things that's where it gets a little dicey because it's more like invasive species and yeah but his point I think was that in order for people to be able to use the Lakes you have to deal with these invas some species otherwise people won't be able legs is the growth in the swim area invasive no it's more of a there are nuisance plants you know we hear that annually with the uh with the applean track one you know you go out swimming and there's some shallow areas along that path and they go the main issue that we have in the swim box it's kind of like this uh if you took a bunch of those Halloween spider webs and D them green and it's just this big gelatinous kind of mass it's very carpetyoutube [Music] [Music] right but uh I think the the biggest concern we have is that uh The Preserve the Lakes Lakes normally have a cycle where they what they call uriy right where they eventually slowly fill in with plants and growth and you know they turn from Lakes to ponds to marshes to you know Wetland Wetland yeah but naturally that takes like ,000 years and when you start to have development of towns and houses and farms around the Lakes uh that time can go from 10,000 years to uh 100 years or in the case of mil Pond 20 years right and so uh the the plant growth in The Lakes is what we're really concerned about that the unification of of the lakes in in order to keep them as vital vibrant uh resources that you know people can you know use appreciate view um and whether most of the plants that are coming in and growing like that are invasives but they're not all invasives and you know the the goal of fighting utri fication accelerated beautification uh is kind of independent of what type of plant it is yeah I guess that the big question really is the you there's plants there the you know there's not a health objection to removing them a lake Health injection for removing them no no but but again that comes back into the sort of uh the use uh Recreation uh and and you know you don't see how that kind of aligns with your funding it is Recreation related and you know people often times uh who who canoe on a lake or sail about or whatever have have have grasses and and things that are there removed Lily Pad sections are are wiped out and stuff just so they can get their boats in and around we used to have power boats on Long Lake uh that would tow skiers and they always contended that that kept the growth down because they're chopping things up chop things up and spread it around as well and then it's regenerated so to H sort but uh that that doesn't happen any longer but uh but they do require Conant care it does kind of bring up an interesting point though if it's not necessarily invasive plants control how would we determine if it's preserving open space and as opposed to maintaining an open nice area essentially for people semantics semantics that just the the amount of biomass in the lake is a problem that is the problem and the invasive plants and anness plants are actually a byproduct of this whole process which as Dave mentioned is accelerated because we live around our laks yeah and uh and we take everything and dump it into the lowest point which of course is the lake and we have it has been said Lake there's probably 8 or 10 ft of accumulated sediment uh and and dead plant material which is why we get the floating islands from time to time and uh and things are deteriorating uh and it's the nutrient load just accelerates it's like fertilizer just accelerates the uh the growth of of things and so it's not normal it's not balanced the way it should be because we throw it out of balance I just like to to bring that back to why I began asking for you the time you provided with regard to dash because I think we can put our arms around that conceptually and really understand the connection to a recreational use because of the beach operation and and I look forward to working with Park and recommission and prce and ultimately you folks in clean legs with regard to what I think is a emerging sort of connection but I don't think any I know I'm not prepared to make a definitive argument to try to present to you as except this is the argument but rather I I think there are we've touched on a number of the points that I really think go to aspects of so what is what are these Lakes these treasures and how are they utilized and I argue that the biom is an inhibitor with regard to utilizing it for recreational purposes because in some cases the biomass is so overwhelming that it prevents you know enjoyment of those recreational Pursuits so thank you so I would just say I think we're all kind of in favor of this and we've talked about this before so just reminding you of timelines um the warrants usually close mid-march so the latest we'd want to see some something the latest would be the Fe our February meeting we meet the third Wednesday if you could come to us in January at least with eligibility so that we can talk about it and revise and ask questions that would be best and we're hoping to be actually a couple of months ahead of that our first time through with other l i mean it's in your favor to get in early since you're competing against other without a doubt well aware of that but it is October so don't forget goes fast sure it does same so yeah just keep in touch and I think be able to help thank you and uh the process is become one month for eligibility and the next month requesting funding we would prefer that I mean sometimes it doesn't work out that I mean we saw tonight we we voted both eligibility and especially if we've been talking to you and but we would prefer to be able to talk about the project ask some questions you know even if you had a draft of a of a project so that we could you know make some changes make some tweaks to it and then come back for the final vote that's the preferred way but we we also acknowledge that it doesn't always work that way thank you because I listened to your discussion with regard to the buckets and previous meetings I've heard that if that could be provided I'd be interested before your next meeting I hate to lose a month just to understand what are the existing balances if that could be provided offline I think it would be helpful in order to you know communicate with others who are considering applications I think it would be helpful do that any further questions for the thank you thank you so sitting through our long meeting a record for us I know um we just had a couple code of contact was skip I did want to approve those minutes though um from our last meeting was August what August 21st yeah I'll make a motion that we approve minutes one minor sorry I'm doing a little wres tonight so um under um the project was dring inas control I think you had dring in you me I'll make a motion to approve the August 21st meeting minutes a we have motion by second by Linda all in say all in faor please say right thank you thank you for all our participants