and welcome everyone to April 16th 2024 Littleton Conservation Commission via Zoom our meeting um what I'd like to do is approve the minutes from April 2nd and um everyone's here tonight with the exception of Chase does anyone have any edits or amendments anything to those minutes from April 2nd 2024 okay if not do we have a motion to approve the minutes I'll make a motion that the commission uh approved the meeting minutes of April 2nd 2024 as printed super thank you Andrew do we have a second second thanks Carl okay who would like to do r R call for tonight's meeting I'd be happy to do Ru call great answer Perfect all right Carl Carl M gu Kyle Kyle Maxi die Michael Michael living I Ed Ed f i Sarah Sarah Seward I myself I it is unanimous excellent thank you um administrative discussions few things I'd like to add then if anybody else has anything they' like to add um one is for spectacle Pond Road um a potential s sidewalk ahead of the May 14th meeting discuss that um svt's new Miracle job of putting all the Lots together they're meeting May 20th in the library we'll talk about that and then lastly conservation restrictions does anyone else have anything they'd like to add to administrative discussions Sarah could we add a very brief thing on the Frog Pond sidewalk from uh last Wednesday yep okay if we have time can we get an update on the Archer okay okay let's go ahead so our 7:45 has been C withdrawn so we have until 8:00 to plow through some of these administrative discussions so use requests Littleton hisorical Society at Hartwell on May 18th for the freedoms way Hidden Treasures program and Amy had attached that to our um folders Amy do you wna carollyn is here so she can give you a brief rundown excellent okay Carolyn all yours all right thank you thank you um yes as I guess you got the memo um we'd like to participate again in the freedoms way uh head and treasures program FRS way is the national um Heritage Association um they are out of Devin Mass they're um a group that we've worked with for many years they've been doing this since 2015 we've done programs on many of the other conservation um Parcels we did Yap we've done Oak Hill then of course the pandemic came and we took a few years off last year we had a 100th birthday party for for the shadic street building um so this year what we wanted to do is at the Heartwell family Memorial preserve is um kind of a scaled down version we used to do these you know enormous projects and there was you know meetings and meetings and we thought well let's just do something simple so we want to team up again with the uh conservation trust and and they're on board we're going to be talking with them next week but I think what we'd like to do is the historical society we would stick to the parking lot and we're going to have some displays on the Heartwell ski area we have some really cool photographs and kind of a little bit of history of that and then maybe the Hartwell Farm which is next to the um um the park there so have some history on on that beautiful Farmhouse and then LCT is um talking about having maybe a walk have a you know I guess it's good birding time of this this time of year so have a nature walk Dustin neeld would probably H that up um they're thinking of either doing one or two walk but everything would stick to the to the pathways and of course it depends on on how wet it is too um I have to say I have never been down the the um path before so I'm not sure what it would look like this time of year especially with the weather but anything we do would either be situated in the parking lot or along the trails awesome yeah and it's a short you know we're thinking like 10 to 12 again it's not going to be an all day event but we'd want to get there a little early to set up and then would just take some time to to pull things down as well thank you for that and I also want to commend whoever wrote the land use um permit that was articulated well in the in the document anyone have any questions sounds great oky doie would someone like to make a motion to approve this I'll make a motion that the commission approve the historical society's land land use request for the Heartwell property uh for the May 18th freedoms way hiden Treasures program do we have a second second roll call vote Carl mber Kyle oh Kyle I think you're on mute KY Max thanks Michael Michael Livingston I Ed Ed FS I Sarah Sarah see I myself I it's unanimous Caroline I almost called on you you usually do yes great I really appreciate it and we'll send you the U publicity once we get it so hopefully we see you at some point on that that Saturday that's great thank you for coming in and good luck yes I will probably duck out now but I promise I'll watch a meeting later okay thank you good night Caroline night okay next land use requests Parks and Rec to install seasonal fishing pier near the town Beach uh why don't we just table that until uh Tim is here for the um the other two parts and wreck things okay uh let's jump to request for certificate of compliance six Queen Road Mass 20449 map1 15154 uh this is an old one they're selling the house and just trying to clean up the title Tim did a site walk and um it it all looks good the original filing was for a septic system okay would someone like to move to issue this I move that we issue the certificate of compliance for six Queen Road M EP 20449 okay I second roll call vote eded Michael Michael Livingston I Carl mber gu Kyle Kyle Max Sarah Sarah Seward I myself it's unanimous thank you um okay invasive species disposal discussion L of these uh you're moving faster than I thought you would um so that is for uh a little less um uh urgent than initially I put it on there just in case so what really spurred that was the cleanup that they want to do at Frog Pond that that uh we can discuss later maybe when when Tim is still here um looking for a way to dispose of what we're all assuming is going to be a fair amount of uh invasive shrubs cut out from the Frog Pond area um but Tim from Parks and recx said that he will be able to handle it probably through burning it um which is the best way to do it um but uh Sarah and I did stop off um at uh the orchard area earlier this afternoon to look at some potential sites where in the future uh invasive species might be able to be um uh put into brush piles and and just you know left to dry out and then subsequently chipped out or something like that and if you give me a second let me see if I can and the areas of question are not the APR land it would be land that's under the care custody and control of the Conservation Commission as you go down um neog Hill Road you have the you have the lower B Barn then you've got the cottage and then you have the the um the area there nearest to the reservoir or potentially across the street as well over by SAR dublet parking lot so can you see these yeah so yeah so so this top one would actually be under the care and custody of the select board right now um but it's a it's a mode field basically um and then this area down here is the property that's being transferred to the Conservation Commission that we can also talk about Carl um and uh the last one is just uh south of the Sarah dublet parking lot um so of course I don't think I did these in order that's the top one the yellow one just open field very kind of high and dry um the parking lot below Sarah dubet there's a area right in there that would be very easy to use and um and then there is it's hard to see there is a brush pile already on that land that's going to be transferred to the Conservation Commission with access right up in here uh so for all those cases we'd mold them you know scalp them as much as we can and then um create an area where the brush can be piled uh most likely on um plastic and or pallets and then either left in place or ultimately burned probably after the winter and I'm just talking Woody material here so it sounds like we're just having this discussion we don't need it right away but these are potential areas that we could look at for future correct yeah and I I just mostly want to see if if there's any yay Nays better ideas um it's an extremely difficult thing to to struggle with most of the time we do the stockpiling where we um and that that's the best thing to do is you know you just don't move them around town you leave them where they are unfortunately over at Long Lake the front Pond there's no room to do that so we're talking about shipping them from there over to here yes that won't cause that to get a foothold over here well that that's why we would you know basically scalp it mow it down as much as we can put it on plastic in the pallets while it dries um all these areas are already mowed anyway and surrounded by invasives um so no this it is not my first choice to dump them someplace else um but we're uh we're in difficulty here we did we did look into and been looking into it for a couple years now um doing dumpsters which uh the town of conquer does Supply and admittedly I'm betting that people are putting in the dump and this is for the public people are putting in the dumpster more than just invasives but they're spending about $3,000 a year to provide that service um which I don't think we're ready to do but that was the other thing we were looking at do we have a sense for comparing Apples to Apples about if conquered spending 3,000 are they putting as much volume or less volume or half volume do we have any idea they're using um I forget what size of roll on they got the the big roll on um and uh they get taken down to the incinerator and that's how it's handled so you need a special permit for that you need to rent the dumpster and then you need to pay the hauling fee um and there is a bit of a premium uh for the invasive species piece of it I think just because they can um and they are emptying them about once a month and I've was been over there I don't know gez at least three years ago and you know frankly it is a bit of a mess you know they can't watch it you know the public has at it if and you gotta reach up to get it into the dumpster so a lot of times it ends up in front of the dumpster um and then other things get into it I think if we were ever going to do it at least initially we'd either want to lock it down and just make it something that that the conservation or the trust uses um because if it's open to the public it's not going to be watched right okay thank you anybody else have any questions is there a reason why we couldn't have a burn barrel there when they're pulling the invasives and just burn it as we go I'm going to stop sharing here so I can see if any's got their hand raised um that's basically what Tim's going to do and not really he got something bigger it's it's going to be I think depending on how many people they get out there it could be a lot of material um but you know burn permits are good through April 30th so he thinks he can find a place to put them and I don't know if he's planning on burning right away or stockpiling for a little bit to let them dry out and then burning before the 30th mhm and Highway had said that if if we do need to move them um for instance over to the orchard area that you know they can move the stuff for us they just can't take it to the transfer station they don't have room yeah I guess if anybody else thinks of any other land that's under our care that yeah please where so where does it go after it's moved to the orchard uh it would either just be left there um it it would drive for a while yeah it just be a brush pile there um or after it's dried probably over you know past the winter it could be burned and we've had burns out there before just for the local brush out there um or chipped out I mean this is something we're going to be actively pursuing over the few years here right it's I I get that it dries up and decomposes and will break down but I mean what you're saying is they're going at frog pond at least very very hard and I think that sounds like a push by everybody I get a little nervous that we're over would overwhelm one of these spots that you're no I I I agree and that that has been been the issue and you know frankly some of this Frog Pond stuff came up you know kind of late in the game which is why we're we're kind of panicking trying to figure out what to do with the invasive species I mean would there be any way to to work with the fire department I know you private burn permit are good through April but would they be willing to supervise an annual burn that's happens in the fall or something or later in the year after April 30th they they might I I have asked various Fire Chiefs if they' ever let us do a dumpster burn they said no um actually I think when I first asked four or five years ago like you know maybe it's like yeah they're not doing that um and frankly when Browns Woods the house there was potentially going to be um a burn I was like well can we just put the brush in there and that never happened um as an example that was a nice seller hole that would have been great to dump stuff in right and it's interesting that like with all these empty buildings that all we really need is a parking lot would be the asphalt to dry it out would be you know awesome if we could ever think of one that's going to be lay for that amount of time to see if we could do it Jim Dugen we went in circles a bit on this and he was going to talk to uh the folks over 550 Keen with that huge let's go put at IBM yeah yeah I'm not sure if he did and you know it's it's always the same old thing who wants invasive species brought under their property I get it there's Wetland close by there too isn't there it's tucked way back yeah and I think on a parking lot in particular you'd have to make sure that if this time of air it's not so much an issue because there's not seed coming off of this this material but if there is and it's in a parking L it's going to just run so it would have to be Ro controls or something around it for sure and just to ask the April 30th limit is it's The Season's now too dry to burn stuff after April 30th is is that what the cut off is I assume that's their reasoning I think it's also based on foliage Michael I think okay thing I would be concerned is making it look like a dump you know right I mean it's it's conservation land it's supposed to be you know nice granted it's near that ratty building and stuff but well we we've certainly had these piles on other conservation lands um usually with a sign saying you know what they are and the one the ones on Chorale have been burned the ones on Browns Woods um have been chipped out the light department been great about doing that for us it kind of depends on the species and you know what's who wants to sit and watch a fire versus yeah can we drag it out to the road so the light department can just take it right all right so let's I I think let's carry that discussion on again for the next meeting because I think we're going to have to start to make some decisions um next is the tree protection policy discussion Chase isn't here so I'm still kind of waiting on feedback from him okay um lak Shore compliance doc policy um so I don't know if you all had a chance to look at that um again this is what was based on um what stow and I can't remember the other Town had done um essentially and this is just for docks not you know not Beach or retaining walls or anything like that uh basically saying that if the owner comes in and and wants to put an extension on their house or something but they have a dock that they need to get the dock in compliance also um and it is written I think that uh they don't need to do that until they come back for the certificate of compliance for whatever they're they are in um especially because chapter 91 permitting can take a while not necessarily difficult but slow um so the reason I was looking at this policy is just to make it clear to people what they may or may not need to do and encourage them possibly with a date for no no bylaw filing fee for whatever period of you know a grace period we would want to give them um and I will say that you know our filing fee is maybe 50 bucks which is not much compared to what also DS and the newspaper ad would add up to but it's something so the so the filing fee is $50 but then is there additional fees as well in terms of newspaper or is the newspaper in the 50 no newspaper's additional and that's that's going to be $200 or $300 unless they can combine them and then your third your third fee was the D fee right the de portion of the we protection act fee ballpark how much that might be uh they do it by linear foots and I forget what it is okay I G say maybe a 100 somewhere in there um but a notification which won't add up to much with most of these I don't think right it would really behoove some of the lake organizations to do them in unison for sure okay does anyone have any questions on on this document oh and the other other thing I wanted wanted to say is it um if it's worth considering uh that the dock had to have been there for a certain amount of times in other words they can't build the bo doc this year I guess I of it makes too much different you know that it had to been in place since for at Le at least a year I would guess if they want this sort of easier way of getting a permit for it so we should discuss and come to concrete of what that date is yes who's going to prove it one way or the other I mean if they say that it was and we don't have evidence that it wasn't and you know are we saying that they've got to show us pictures dated pictures or something that that could get a little contentious systems that's a good point how would we know exactly when the dock was put in it could have been the week before or 10 years before right well I mean if we if we pick for example 2021 we have a photographs in 2021 and and we should be able to see the dogs um I mean m g massgis has all the photos you can just go back so can we come up with a date like just let's start with a year do we want to start and all that means is if someone's Doc is newer than that pretty much they just wouldn't have the fee waved that that's really the only difference so it might not be worth making that difference if you're looking per year I'd say 2022 two years would we have that GIS data though if we went that recently like is 2021 the most recent 20221 is the most recent I believe we are going to be getting more recent ones but I'm not 100% sure um map no near map I think it's called which are stunning and they're flowing every six months um I thought 2021 was the oldest not the newest sorry no 20 we go back to the 40s 2021 is is the most recent all you had mentioned 21 do you think that's the safer bet to go with 21 um I would think so are we all in agreeance of 21 then sure sounds good so 1121 well January 1 or whatever you good okay all right excellent okay um how long would want the uh if we do it the fees to be waved we're coming up on the summer so may you if you did three months or even six months and it said you got six months they won't have time I think we're thinking years I'm thinking to come to bring people into compliance I think we're talking 24 and 25 oh shows my lack of knowledge sorry yeah I just don't think we'd even get the word out before the middle of the summer I Michael when he was reviewing this had had punt in you know two years after this is adopted um I had thrown in you know December 31st 2024 which basically gives him this whole season um or 2025 um I the point is to get people into compliance Michael what are your thoughts I I was thinking that you know two years would be fair it might be difficult to get everybody to come into compliance in in one season it might be difficult to handle getting everybody into compliance in one season um but two seemed it it seems reasonable to me I mean it's completely subjective but uh it seems more doable so can I ask a kind of a naive question if we hypothetically are waving say 100 docks where is this money coming from what money so D fees newspaper fees that's coming from the applicant so what fee are we actually waving only the bylaw fee and and the town's part of the well protection act fee okay newspaper they would still have to pay and the D part they would still have to pay so approximately how much is the average doc owner going to save by by coming into compliance $100 yeah okay it depends on if like you said if you can get 70 of them around one lake to go in all this together then you're looking at one newspaper ad and right okay I G have to think about yeah I guess we could do one newspaper we did that for the mats for the that's that's why I said we and in that ad you just list everyone all those addresses so it becomes a more expensive ad but that's fine divided among however many it's defin we've only got four more minutes let's jump along um four spec Pon wait so so no fee for two years after adoption yep and did you want to vote on this or kick it down the road are we good to vote tonight is there any reason to keep kicking us down the road we figured out a date and a filing fee and whatever is there anything else that we need to discuss about it right somebody want to make a motion I'll make a motion that we approve the Lakeshore compliance dock policy with the two-year uh compliance period we have a second second roll call vote Ed Ed FY Michael Michael Livingston I Carl Carl melberg I Kyle Kyle Maxi I Sarah see word I myself I it is unanimous okay great let's go let's try and get two more of these done um for spec pwn Road Site walk so um if anybody remembers this site this is uh basically the rear of stoneyard up on the uh the air Town Line but but on the right side um below six speec Pond which Mickey Jensen was in last year or two um but they have filed and it's on the agend for um the main meeting um I am guessing you all are really going to want a s sidewalk and I was kind of thinking it might be good to do it before the first meeting in case we can beat the vegetation just blocking everything out um so I don't I don't know if you were interested in doing that or not it's a there's a lot of wetlands and uh a Riverfront area um and I'm trying to find out if they need to file with a planning board uh who would review their storm water so this is a this isn't the same site that we've already approved it's just it's back behind little little deeper in yeah so as you go down that dirt road Kyle ston yard's on your left y it's further down on the right and it's got a big berm around it there's no structures there presently but it's a big operation I mean it's you can't miss it if you go in but don't go past it which is what I did right I thought I could turn around you don't want to do that but if if anyone's interested I was thinking of shooting for the week of May 6 or we just do it normally after the first meeting I would say throw out a date in in May so we've got town meeting on the 7th do you want to try and do s sidewalk the eth or the 9th either works for me what's better for people now noon still good for anyone five o'clock noon is best for me noon is best for me I think as well right now with all the other activities going on and what's better Wednesdays or Thursdays even one yeah have a preference all right why why don't I check with the consultant and see okay I think we'll end up on this site we'll end up doing two s sidewalks so then one that's going to be after work to accommodate everybody else yeah maybe after the first the Commissioners need to see so let's set the first one for May 88th at noon and then perhaps talk to the consultant and see if we can do a evening type one for everybody else yeah and maybe the second one could be after the first meeting so you've seen bit more okay all right I I'll see what there why I can still see the Wetland Flags Okay um then quickly SVT on May 20th in the library yes so uh and Andrew I haven't even talked to you about this yet I don't know if if you could even make May 20th it's like the only date that's open in the library right now um but this would for them to come in and talk about their their mapping overlay um for evaluating Parcels uh from conservation point of view so I I've asked um as we discussed last time you know fincom planning board select board CPC sustainability if they were interested in general hearing this uh fin Kong got back and said they'd be interested in hearing it so perfect could you make that that Monday night yeah I could make that Monday night thank you for putting this together it's not together yet but we're getting there we're getting there what time are you thinking Amy I said 6:30 I just had to reserve the room um I could make it later if that's better for people it would be for me um but don't don't change things around just based on me would seven be better or is that still not doing you any good be much better yeah okay that's fine it's nothing's even close to set in stone okay okay let's go ahead um we'll table some of the other conversations um 8:00 public hearing notice of intent seasonal dock installation parks recreation and Community Education there's not quite yet a masty EP number yet installation of three seasonal docks for boating swimming and fishing well I don't see Tim here um before he jumps in or now we have a new founded doc policies is something that they're going to get roped into as well and they're filing for it perfect but yes so make sure that they're aware now that's all um Tim is with no that's Tim no that's the wrong Tim wrong Tim right okay well I don't have his cell phone number so is he here for the 8115 one as well is that uh yes he just maybe he's shooting for 8:15 instead of 8 could be and the hearing is the hearing is open so why don't we go ahead and at least look at the documents that Tim has filed with us for the land use permit that Amy furnished for us the period use state from Summer 2024 to 2027 um I didn't see on the next page I didn't see the attached map but I'm sure someone's seen it um my only kind of question on some of these land use permits where we give these long-term dates which we've done before that just roll over automatically that I'd like to add into the kind of the boilerplate message that they do Advance provided no changes occur because we wouldn't we wouldn't really know if there's a change like an addition or subtraction to the permit this isn't a land use permit this is a full notice of intent right there there were three there was a a land use request um because the fishing pier would be on conservation property and then there's also the two NOS vent so the land user request was up in the administrative discussion y okay [Music] um you feel comfortable doing the uh the land use prr or you want to wait and hear what Tim has to say yep he got home Tim just got home and he's uh getting on so he be here momentarily while we're waiting Amy do you want to go back to administrative discussions and talk about conservation restrictions yes so just a a quick update um we got comments back from the state on the William CR uh over a year later um and uh I've been through those in town council's going to check some things that I wasn't sure of then I think Williams will probably be ready to to to vote on um and then I've been working with uh uh Kathy Stevens from the Trust on Jones Meadow so they own Jones Meadow and and you all be holding the CR on that um and that because it had just been taking so long actually had to redo it for their current template um so that is also almost ready to go and is down at uh Town County for them to take a second look at actually no Town Council already looked at it and it's ready to submit to EA then we can wait for a year or so and that would I think bring us up to date and except for I don't know Church Meadows whatever is going on over there so conservation restriction permanently prevents um development so that what how it works uh whatever it is set up to um so they're I don't know 20 30 pages um it'll it'll say what the permitted uses are and what the prohibited things are so if most commonly you know you allow for trails and kiosks and that sort of stuff um and if you want to build a parking lot you kind of have to carve that out ahead of time um so it it tries to address a lot of different things thinking way ahead in perpetuity so they get kind of convoluted and it's not able to be removed after it's in place uh literally like an act act of Congress okay just looking to make sure that we protect especially like the Williams property and any of the others would put it on so wouldn't want someone down the road to say you know that'd be a great place to put a office building or you know whatever yeah and um the way that the town vote was on Williams um it was you know care and custody the conservation for conservation purposes um okay and it did not require a conservation restriction because CPC funds weren't used uh and Jones Meadow the same thing it didn't necessarily require a CR but the trust wants one yeah I know the Williams property at some point they're going to be putting houses around it and so we want to make sure it's protected yeah and cr's Ed can be just a sliver of land or big so that each one is so unique and that's why I think sometimes it takes so long to get these approved sure and are they approved by the state legislature or just the dep Department of D it's by the Executive Office of Environmental Affairs and energy uh the Department of Conservation services so the Secretary of EA signs off on it well as will the board as will you guys so yeah well once you get the state involved that takes forever and Andrew do you want to talk about Frog Pond yes so I'm just going to touch on that briefly for tonight but uh we did go out and do a S sidewalk um last Wednesday after work uh and we did notice uh you know quite a few invasives All Around the Pond um there has been quite a bit of work um in recent years uh you know chipping away at the invasives um but so there will be an event on April 3 uh sorry April 20th I'm jumping of myself here on Earth Day um and test could even probably give you guys a an overview of what the Long Lake neighborhood association is planning um but I was just thinking down the road um we could even use CPA funds to really clean that site up and uh get rid of the invasives and maybe restore the walkway the walkway was a mess like somebody's gonna break their leg on it walking through there um like it's it's really bad and once Highway dredges it out uh the the pond itself uh we could get that place up to really good shape the way it was 20 years ago um so it's just something to think about you know for future meetings you know maybe using CPA funding or other grants uh to really get that place in in good form and to kind of keep it uh in good shape moving forward but oh here's Tim hello sorry about the delay guys no that's okay um good evening Tim so we have three things to discuss so we've got your land use request but then right now we have the open hearing which is your notice of intent for the seasonal dock installation um and it's installation of three seasonal docks for boating swimming and fishing so let's start with that one first and then we'll move on to the 8:15 and if we have time in between we'll do the land use permit sounds great super so do you want to just tell the commission ideally what you're looking for yeah so traditionally for the seasonal docks uh that was something that we would go to the select board for uh as it was written uh due to the fact that we're supposed to have our Harbor Master approve those things which we don't have um this year Amy had given me the P work to file for the docs as we normally do uh the two docs are existing so the one is the sailing dock which is at the end of the boat ramp and the other one uh traditionally runs down the center of the swim zones which divides them into two parts one for public beach one for Camp to hadan when we're down there um which we also open up to the public when Camp te is not there uh the third dock that we had put in a permit for was to uh create the fishing dock that we've had conversation about uh since pre-co uh we did put one in there during covid uh in order to spread people out uh was pretty well received and as I presented in the last meeting there were two wooden structors that used to be there that have collapsed one has been removed the other one has not uh so the third one was just a uh uh kind to uh to replace those two docs as well as um continue on with what we had started doing at covid for that access point right there in front of the bench Commissioners questions for Tim sometimes It Takes a Minute Tim because everybody's muted all all good I'm I'm fine with what he just described yep same and this is example except for the fishing pier which which is a fishing doc which is which is new of basically getting someone Appliance with the W's protection act not the chapter 91 side of things okay well if there's no further discussion do we have someone well so Tim here's where we're at we cannot officially closed tonight because Mass D hasn't given you the number yet which is very common yeah but you know that based of what you're hearing you'd have support unless something changes so what we would do is we would continue to May 14th which is the next meeting and if everything stays the same it doesn't necessarily mean that you have to be in we're just waiting for that number yeah and traditionally we try to get them in before day so we have time okay okay so with that let's go ahead because the next one is not till 85 so we're a little shy of that so you have one hand raised Sarah okay I didn't see that Tim you there you go hi yes Tim a here I'm in a butter to the uh to the um Beach and I just had a question so Tim thank you for being here can you please State your address please sure it's three Lake View Drive super thank you so uh just just one question for clarification the um the current uh boat dock sometimes has fishermen on it and there's a little bit of rambunctious Mayhem on there where they're jumping on the boats and whatever are they going to be directed to to the uh fishing dock in the future if that's yeah so that's going to be our hope is to uh direct all that traffic to the fishing quote unquote fishing dock uh in order to allow um safer access for the people who are launching Boats off of the boat ramp and to hopefully not get as many Hooks and everything snagged in the sailing gear as we currently experience so right yes that it it was a very minor part of the initial discussion but the hope would be that we could direct all fishing traffic over to that new area thanks Tim that sounds great okay doesn't look like we have any other further discussion with that so let's jump back to what was an administrative discussion which was a land use permit uh for seasonal fishing dock doc will allow for access to Open Water away from vegetation for fishing and non-motorized boat launching is proposed to have a period of use from Summer 2024 through 2027 and you all refer with this in your in your packets any discussion on that as I had said the only thing I'd like to change is the language on all land use permits that whatever the period of time that it's being issued for that there be a disclaimer that that's that's fine provided not no changes occur to the use um does anybody have any questions about Park and Rex and Community Education application for land use permit so this is separate this is to use the parks in town is it for the parks Amy or is this because this was because is going on a conservation part so that Lakeshore Drive uh area that we're asking to utilize is officially conservation parcel y no I think Tim clarified any questions I had at our last meeting if that's the case would someone like to make a motion sure I'll make a motion that we issue a land use permit to the park and Rex department for the installation of their seasonal fishing pier on our conservation L now long L second all right roll call vote eded bolz I Kyle Kyle maxio by Michael Livingston I Sarah Sarah I Carl carlberg I and myself I it's unanimous okay so now it's 816 y it's 8:16 so we're going to go ahead and jump to the 815 public hearing abbreviated notice of intent Beach path Parks and Recreation and education uh Community Education um Mass D number is not given and they're asking for maintenance of existing porest PA Trail and extension across the beach Tim if you want to go ahead and just kind of give the commission a brief overview of that that would be great yes so we uh we currently utilize a uh temporary walking path uh that we put down in the summer most of you uh hopefully have seen it it's the blue mat uh I had presented last week uh that traverses about 76 feet worth of path um from the parking lot to where the KC path ends coming up off the Lakeshore Drive uh the original reason that we had done this is we were an equity issue was brought to us uh back uh when I had first started and it was a gentleman who was in a wheelchair and he discussed how he had to go up and around you know all the way up Beach down Goldsmith and downtown to access the parking lot uh since then we've had a couple other residents come to our pre our last Park commission meeting uh and express uh concern that you know they can't Traverse the beach during the times that the mat is not there as well uh their names are Devon Dorcas they're part of the la lake neighborhood association uh so we did dive back into the conversation about extending the path uh currently there is a path that comes up from Lakeshore Drive on the conservation partial that um when we did do our study uh that was also found to be out of compliance because of the grade that it's on so when it says maintenance and new uh the hope would be that we were going to replace the 30 I think it's like 33 37 ft of conservation path on the parcel to bring it into compliance and then extend the pathway the rest of the way from where the conservation piece ends and um across the beach to the parking lot uh so that work would be done uh once again as soon as possible um once we get D permit conservation approval and everything else that goes into making that happen uh the path would be made in compliance with all of the um Necessities that were put forth for proper drainage and everything else and our hope is actually that by putting in a hard path instead of the temporary pathway that we have we're actually going to address some of the wash out issues that we've been having with the severe weather uh that we've seen in the past two or three Summers uh that area traditionally has a lot of wash out there was uh when it was first built a Swale that was built behind the um playground which has since kind of eroded a little bit uh we are also looking at how can we fix that um but we're hoping that by the substrate that we put underneath of the pathway as well as the pathway itself it'll help us to uh mitigate some of the uh some of the runoff that we've been seeing in the past few years as well hey great questions for Tim comments sounds like a great way to provide your your round access to the lake y i Tim I guess we'll wait and see when you have your D number sometimes you would hear prior than before Amy so as soon as you do hear and it it doesn't hurt to give them a call every now and then too to see but we will go ahead and carry both discussions forward to May 14th and uh waivers were uh provided for both of those projects too okay so maybe in the next um listing for the public hearing we make reference of that or no do you need to put that in the agenda with wer of what okay all right thanks for joining us yeah again sorry for being tardy thank you guys for your time and uh appreciate working together okay thank you have a good night everyone than actually I was going to say if if you want reference to waivers put into the agenda for everything asking for a waiver that can certainly be done I didn't I just I didn't know if just have I never have but might not be a bad way of advertising that people need waivers what do we think about that I kind of like it so public hearing give a description uh waiver of the local Wetland bylaw requested or something along those lines um yeah be it' be easy enough for me to make Tim do that say notice intent with waiver right it's adding two extra words it shouldn't be oh God I guarantee it's gonna be more than two extra words but yeah exactly once we get it in there it's it's fine we're gonna be going to three pages on our agenda it won't be the first time right um one thing we I don't know if people noticed so Healey Corner later this evening has post postponed as and then we know that Taylor withdrew but to take a second so we're at some point with Healey we'll have to determine if it's going to be they'll tell us if it's going to be a new filing where so much time has passed as well so we'll we'll talk about that the next time they they come in am me anything to add to that uh no I I will just when it really honest to God looks like they are going to come in because they've continued for a long time um I will double check with Town Council what their recommendation is for that was how we left it a new filing or or just new notifications C you were on with Healey though from start finish yep I was but I I brought that up with Amy last at the last meeting what yeah at this point what's going on because it's probably just me and you right Sarah or I guess Andrew as well but some people had missed so yeah there anymore right exactly oh I make a bad I miss too so yeah I's this get Anna back in here she's still an associate right no she's not no she's not even associate no I I was at quite a few of those meetings in the sidewalks yeah but they went on for a long time so it's easy to miss yeah I'm sure I missed I mean at this point I I think doesn't matter who was on it personally I don't think it matters who was on it if you had Miss meetings or not it's been way too long and the pro project has to have changed substantially from where we last said because it wasn't moving forward through us the week where they lay down in front of us right so yeah personally I think it's a whole new filing but we'll see what they have did that filing all come down to the one lot in the back Lots in the back yeah there was two but it was the crossing that yeah was that that was basically what the project came down to not not necess the sub not necessary the Lots in the front as as I recall you all were pretty much just starting that discussion yeah seriously um when they they stopped because they got um the appeal under the planning board is the appeal over that's why this is going in fits and starts it seems like it's almost over but then it's not they come to agreement then they haven't so I'm just asking Bruce you know yes or no okay so I guess we would always request that they are the last one on every agenda that's why I've been putting them there Bruce okay just uh we've got five minutes so Orchard update we have a meeting this Thursday um to go through an outline presentation for town meeting um basically where we're at is that there's a motion to sell just the APR land as APR it has to be voted by the border Selectmen from what I understand so to be termed Surplus inventory um we are still having to create an RFP so we did the RFI we had some good applicants in the RFI you may remember was just to kind of see who might be interested and what their thought thoughts were and what they might want to do um and so there are people that are probably interested that never did the RFI that would then go to the RFP but we have to come up with the criteria based on what we're hearing through the town and what might be good for the orchard of how you tick the box so if say Kyle wants to put an RFP in and he doesn't have enough egg experience that's not going to get him to be able to tick off all the boxes so that criteria is still in discussion so we're still slogging through it but um there is a pretty robust link on the town website that has all the meetings all the minutes a lot of the data um land vests report is there um maps are there as well so um it's been a little difficult because you know we've done this for over three years and while it's nice to have you know Town interest now people want to understand where we were three years ago and we're just really trying to keep the ball moving we know we've lost this whole growing season and I think what the projected forecast now is to hopefully have somebody in next winter at latest next spring so um basically we've set the budget to keep mowing um invasives are uh robust in there and so I I don't know that there's a budget right now to try and address the uh the invasives and every I tell everyone that every minute that ticks by the place falls into further disarray in terms of the structures was there ever I know you've been at this for three years was there ever any discussion just to keep it with the town and let it remove the buildings and um you so what would happen Carl you could do that on all the land except for the APR so APR under the restriction has to be at least 50% of it has to be actively used for agriculture if not they would take it back and we would lose all control of that and they have the power to take it back and put in whoever they want or they can sell it and that's mdar so and we've been working with them because we're really you only have kind of a grace period of two sometimes three years um they don't want to take the property back they've already taken some back in the Commonwealth so um they're working with with us they know that we're as I said slogging along trying to find someone so so they wouldn't even if the Town express interest to keep in some type of conservation or keep it yep they wouldn't they wouldn't even entertain that idea they would take the property back even if the town absolutely yeah so the APR which is a really interesting um rtion to read it's it's very concrete and that that's on that website or I can send it to you again it really spells out what you can do as well for for egg as well and through the decades that document has really modified like they won't let you go put a house up so it's very very very restrictive could it could it just be put into some type of grass if the if as long as someone is going to Hay it hay it yeah well why wouldn't the town want to do something like that something as easy as we possibly can to keep the well it's a great question but you'd have the expense of taking out all the trees and you'd have to stump all the trees in order to get hay so that's that would be expensive for sure and we we looked at what the town you know potentially what the cost would be to remove trees and the town doesn't have the money to remove the trees it just I know in my mind it seems like this there's other Alternatives if it's it's not going to break the bank to do something like that and it keeps land that the town's already basically purchased right in the town coras I mean that's just that's all it makes sense to me I no and I agree but there's disagree with there's no money to even maintain it they haven't maintained the buildings they haven't maintained the land I would just take I personally if it was the town I'd take all the buildings down and be done with them just like I mean we do that we that we do that on we do that on on federal refugees all the time if we acquire a piece of land we don't want the buildings the first thing we do is remove the buildings and get rid of it yep I I agree but for the land that's APR which is where all the trees are we have to farm it if not we will lose control of it I I still think there's a way to do it and keep the land as low agriculture as you possibly can and and it would also be good for grass and nesting Birds sure I mean this I agree with you with that with that part APR doesn't care though no yeah but you're growing grass which they do care well yes but you have to harvest it and you have has to be agriculture so it's gonna have to be fertilized and seated and all the yearly stuff okay all right 8 832 let go ahead and go to continued public hearing oh I've got a stink Bud flying around my head notice of intent Cloverdale Ada Trail um mass number to be determined construction of a gravel Ada Trail and modifications to Boardwalk so unless you have any other questions I would ask for continuance to the next May 14th no questions for me I'm still checking my email to see if we get a late late uh number but they haven't come in yet how long are they running in your experience Amy um who was submitted before me oh 95 Taylor which which has been withdrawn uh they they still don't have a d number and D didn't know they was with withdrawing so um that was February 27th they got it so they're really out so like six weeks out yeah but I think 95 well they did ask some questions about 95 tail on the riverfront area so they were looking at it but okay but anyway that's the next one I guess one thing because the dates had changed on meetings I just want everyone to remember that our two meetings in May are the 14th and the 28th and we also have town meeting thrown in there as well so but the only site walk we have planned right now would be May 8th um Amy can we put in for a reminder like that that Monday or we'll see everybody well hopefully see everyone at town meeting well you you may possibly need a a special meeting at town meeting before town meeting if there's anything going on with Webster oh that's right yeah because uh CPC is actually going to be meeting on uh the 6th that Monday so in order to have the application actually considered by CPC for that we would have to meet prior to actually vote to submit the application to CPC and then CPC would have to vote to approve that and then it would go before town meeting so we would technically have to meet before May 6th iFit that who submitting that and are you are you referring to CPC having to meet or conservation having to meet or both so both would have to meet um depending on who's submitting the application if it's the select board submitting the application to CPC they could technically do that and then CPC would vote but if it's us submitting the application we would have to meet but it's depends on how the board we're not submitting it well you've already got an application when it was the 1.6 million from the fall so we could probably just recycle that with a new number I'm hoping somebody could recycle that with a new number right but we we never took a vote that we were going to submit it that's that's the selectman submitting that they know that but yeah I don't we would have to have an official vote of this committee if we are going to do that again yeah this word would have to to vote on that for sure right and we do not meet until after town meeting are you saying vote to support that warrant is that what you're saying vot no vote to be the one that submits it one vote to submit the CPC application and probably well at the same time probably or different vote to support the purchase right so that would have to be a whole other meeting in itself and you need three days minimum to get that posted and you'd have to make sure you have Quorum not to sound cynical but is this even really going to happen or are we just going through an exercise again has he come down in price has the appraisal come up in value we're waiting for the appraisal meeting seems like premature it's great yeah great question I think everything really I think stems on that appraisal which is not in yet it's due May 1 that leaves a lot of room doesn't it days in advance of May 6 meeting means May 3d and it's coming in on May 1 okay all right all right so Andrew you'll keep us posted on that it is um 8:36 do we have a motion to adjourn can I can I just mention one more thing um because Carl brought this up separately earlier about getting that parcel over at the orchard um actually transferred into the care and custody of concom yep the select board voted that they would do that which means getting a subdivision and you know I haven't pushed them and and they never did it um that is probably A2 or $3,000 cost to get the subdivision for that um so I don't know right now I don't have the money for that after July 1 I might and I don't know if that if the CPC um I don't want to call it a slush fun but the the open space purchase fund or whatever you want to call it and you can think about this Andrew if CPC would think that' be appropriate use of some of that money so I mean potentially because it is protecting and preserving land right but it's already municipally owned so it gets a little funky but we could certainly it's it's about it's about as municipally owned as the 50s something acres is being sold yeah so I mean at it so I would I'd rather say it in concom hands oh absolutely and I think we could put together a pretty convincing case that you know it needs to be subdivided and there are fees to go along with it in order to fully protect it under concom so you I can certainly look under that uh so that that fee is just for the engineering correct I mean that's where I just I don't know six nine months ago I asked Ross what thought it might be yep and we have to remember that Ross is so out that it would be even though we don't have the money I don't think they'd even have it done by July so we could kind of like keep that ball rolling to make a motion that when we do have the money but to tell Ross we're going to have the money go ahead and put it on your too list I'm not gonna be able do anything with them uh officially until after Ju first okay Town administrators there no one's going to let me no I know but you could you could have a motion to support that so you could already have that so when you have the funds you don't have to come back and wait for another meeting does that make sense we're we would be pre pre-approving in the next fiscal year I I would wait I don't think an extra month is going to make a difference I'd probably hold on to okay just yeah I Ross is is gonna they they told me they would honor that price um okay and I'd probably need to go ask some other people just in case anyway but okay we just run it the line right down the stone wall probably right as soon as we can do something though we need to the lately you know I just think of uh sell sell sell you know it seems like or build build so we need to do more protecting and faster yep okay does anyone have anything else motion to adjourn at 8:40 I move that we adjourn second roll vote Ed Ed I Michael Michael Livingston I Carl Carl malberg I Kyle Maxi I Sarah Sarah Seward I myself I we are Jed