for one more person to have Quorum there's Ed admit as soon as Ed is on a second okay we good to go we have a quorum okay so you have a quorum okay um in five four three um I would say you have a quorum but do you want to let in your audience uh we can yep y have a great meeting okay good evening I'd like to call Litt I'd like to call the Littleton Conservation Commission meeting to order this is May 2nd 2024 we have two items on for discussion do we have anything new that we would like to add for discussion items um in addition to Webster and 10 Ivy okay if not I'd like to go ahead and start with the discussion for Webster it's a review and discussion of a CPC application Chase will gladly turn this over to you for discussion okay very good so let me uh let me cut to the chase I supposed last night the community preservation committee uh on which Andrew sits uh voted to uh fund I guess uh voted to allocate the money from the open space fund for the Webster land acquisition uh their vote was $730,000 for the land acquisition and $30,000 for soft acquisition costs that includes what isn't limited to uh survey and so on um Ed and Andrew Andrew you probably got the backstory yesterday but let me and and Sarah and and for the the sake of the public paying attention um how we got here so you recall last fall town meeting Webster property was up on the warrant $1.4 million did not achieve the two-thirds majority necessary to purchase the property without CPC funds um the Websters came back to us about a month and a half ago or so and said hey we' we we'd really like to still consider going forward why don't we get another appraisal um their opinion was that the appraisal that we had before we'll call it appraisal one was uh very very low I'm not sure we agreed with that but we we agreed to go forward with a second appraisal or I say we actually the conservation trust is the The Entity that funded the second appraisal as well and um and I think we're quite in debt to them spending money on a second one that second appraisal came in a little bit higher at $730,000 I thought it was dead at that point um and for a period of time it appeared to be dead because it was so much lower than what the Websters were looking for uh it appears that they have changed their mind and they're willing to go forward to sell the property to the town I I can't speak entirely eloquently to their motivations but I think Legacy is a very big part of that um sell it to the town for the appraised value by selling it to the town for the appraised value that allows us if CPC so chooses to utilize CPC funds um and so the Town Administrator submitted an application to CPC uh which they discussed last night Andrew was a part of that discussion as a member of CPC as I said and uh we now have uh let's say a viable article before town meeting next Tuesday the purpose of this meeting the purpose of the Conservation Commission taking this item up is twofold one to make sure everybody's up to speed on it because it's moving rather quickly but second uh it wasn't clear whether or not the Town Administrator or the conservation commission would be submitting the CPC application uh it turns out the Town Administrator did so we don't need to vote to submit an application that said I do think we should discuss and vote on supporting the article for town meeting and my understanding is the Town Administrator uh would like the Conservation Commission to move the article at town meeting and present the article at town meeting so the the primary topic here is do we support uh this article Andrew or Ed thoughts comments uh that was an excellent recap Chase um I yeah we we definitely want to take a vote uh whether or not to support the uh the article I um I was one of the voting CPC members last night um we hashed the project out quite lengthily uh and um I think it's a great buy for the town a great chance to preserve a really beautiful piece of property and um I I would say I mean I I'm fully in support was was your committee all in support Andrew it was yeah what really kind of stuck with us though was the funding mechanism there were three funding options before us last night one was to buy the property outright using open space reserves which are about 1.2 million uh the second option was to basically bond out half and pay half up front and um and then the third option was to bond it out entirely but then we would have been paying around 75k over the course of three years um in interest so we we hashed it out quite lengthily and came up with the conclusion that it would be most beneficial to just fund it outright and leave about 550,000 in open space reserves with a pretty sizable chunk and undesignated as well if there was an emergency that popped up but um but yeah the committee was um all in favor and uh I think we came up with a pretty good uh outcome and thank you again Chase for popping in because I I didn't want to essentially vote one way or the other without the input of the Commission in terms of funding so I I didn't want to wipe out all of our conservation open space funds essentially um but after hashing it out it seemed like the most logical uh route forward even with the three-year uh half down bonding out the other half we we were still paying 35k essentially in interest which we could use for so many other things and it just seem like the best uh rout and essentially my commentary last night to CPC was it it's it's really their responsibility to figure out the best funding mechanism you know the Conservation Commission is in a position to opine on whether or not we should acquire this uh but it's really cpc's this sounds more adversarial than it than it was cpc's Role to figure out how they want to allocate their money um and how they want to fund it so I had indicated that in the past I don't think the Conservation Commission had expressed an opinion on borrowing versus spending cash and I I doubted we would in this case either at least in a let's say in a formal context I think we probably all have opinions on it but as commission members we're really looking at is this a piece of property worth acquiring not so much how should CPC allocate their resources okay Ed do you have thoughts I like the idea of getting it but the Morrison Archard is put a very dirty taste in my mouth in that if we do go forward I want to know that the Selectmen kind of turn around four five six years from now and say you know there's enough land on that Webster property that we could sell it and it's it's you know as long as it's under our control and not the not the selectman's control that it cannot be sold without our approval I'm okay with that but like I said the Marson Archard has put a really bad taste in my mouth that they're gonna they're out there trying to sell that and don't please I appreciate where you're going to go the the the the uh Agriculture and all that I'm just telling you my feelings yeah no and I appreciate that I was going to ask Andrew if he can walk us through and remind us what is the procedure when you take CPC funds can it ever be reversed so for instance I know we've got our article 97 for EG but I'm unsure what CPC does so essentially any piece of property bought for open space purposes using CPA monies that has to automatically have a conservation restriction placed on it in perpetuity so it can never be houses once we buy it and especially once it's transferred into our custody and control it's like a double layer protection so nobody can ever just you know over the course of so many years just say hey you know what actually H let's sell it for you know whatever purpose it's it's double lockdown essentially so it's very well protected I'm I'm not sure it is resolved yet who would hold the CR whether that's the conservation trust or we would ask the sberry valley trustees to hold it but um to the extent that there's a third layer that would be that the third layer is the application of a CR to it all right then with that in mind I it sounds like a go forward kind of this deal okay do we have someone that would like to make a a motion of support uh I would move that the Littleton Conservation Commission support article oh boy I lost it article8 the uh Webster land acquisition at the spring 2024 town meeting second yeah Andrew that's fine okay all those in favor do we'll do a roll call vote roll call vote all right Chase Chase G gu Ed Ed Sarah Sarah Seward I and myself I it's unanimous okay there is one other element just to note here and I think Tim you had had emailed about this we are going to try to get the language in I think to to open up the possibility of potentially applying Grant funds to this um to the extent that we could get some I think there's a there's a big lift to make that happen but Tim I but we'll see what we can do right yeah we're going to try chase that would be an amendment on the floor yeah the way that would work is that we would need the town clerk's office to essentially print out a revised a revised motion that is in a form that would allow us to apply for land grants essentially the the motion needs to be in a particular form to make a a Grant application viable so does someone need to make a motion to amend that on the floor someone would um I don't believe it needs to be the Conservation Commission in particular could be the board a board of Select member correct yes someone needs to move to amend the article okay so Ed that would be really cool if we could get that done it would open up a lot more opportunities for us to get grant money for that purchase sure but it is it is a big lift quickly okay okay I assume the warrant would is going to get updated to reflect the the purchase price yeah yes that that at a minimum will be amended on town meeting floor the the question is whether we also have a lot more uh text to go with it to apply for the land grant all right so who is physically presenting that now not to be too aggressive here but I was planning on it so happy to have someone else do it well you you still have the old slide deck you can modify them I I will tell you that my strategically given that be CPC voted to use uh to to essentially buy it in cash and the voting threshold is now 50% as opposed to 2third um I don't I'm going to orient town meeting to what's going on but I don't necessarily plan on beating him over the head with it right I think just the natural aspects because there are going to be some hopefully some new towns people that aren't familiar with the we Webster property yes absolutely and Chas you did an amazing job last time so full confidence we'll see um okay let's go ahead and scoot over to 10 Ivy um Tim and I were out on site and Kyle was out on site as well and so we did Issue a cease and assist in enforcement and so what I'd like to do before we open up discussion is that we would have a vote to ratify that to make that there you're cutting out I think unless it's just my computer no I I think okay um can you hear me we can hear you now I I'll move to ratify the enforcement order for 10 Ivy okay and I second roll call vote uh Chase Chase g i Ed Ed FSE Sarah Sarah Seward I and myself I it's unanimous okay great um and who's here to speak to 10 I is that Alec that is Alec okay is Alec unmuted or Alec if you want to introduce yourself that would be great and then Tim if you can call up the uh new plan that was submitted that would be appreciated hello I can if I can share my screen because this plan's a little difficult um first off my name is Alec Chong the engineer for the project here at 10 Ivy Road um this plan was designed in AutoCAD and then I switched over to Carlson throughout the year so it's very difficult to make this plan look pretty now so I apologize for the ugliness on it if I can share my screen that'd be very helpful but um if am I able to do that you should be good to go Alec and all right again it's gonna be very blocky and things like that like trees are squares here and all sort of funky stuff because it's two different drafting programs and it be it's just it's what we have to deal with um okay so Alec before you get started if you could just Orient the commission to what it what the order of conditions was where we are right now um so we had to stop for a week and then kind of talk about your plan for dewatering but with your cursor if you could outline the resource area that would be appreciated yep absolutely so I'm going to try to see how it works on here all right yep the Highlight in there let me bold that up for you just kidding won't let me do it again this is going to be it's tough program for it's old now but right here you can see there the uh that's the 50 Foot buffer and that's the 100 foot buffer right here this is a project located on 10 Ivy Road it's a septic system upgrade it's uh no increase in flow the um pre the excuse me so again can everyone see that just want to make sure I can't see what you guys can see that's a 50 foot buffer and this is the 100 foot buffer um we're putting in the new septic system a replacement and uh groundwater we had when we did the testing back uh about year and a half two years ago was not nearly as high as we anticipated and I really wasn't involved when this construction started and as they started doing the construction process they had high W High groundwater trying to install the septic tank itself that the contractor thought he was doing the right thing by pushing it beyond the 100 foot buffer but he was dischar it was still dis there happened to be a catch base and it looked like it discharges back into the land which is where we are standing now um so what we everything's been stopped no no work has continued on and what we're proposing is this a essentially dewatering tank a truck with the tank on the back of it because all we have left the dewater is the Hol is pretty much excavated we have to excavate it to get the inspection by Jim griffy the Board of Health and then once it gets the approval you're just back filling with Title 5 sand exuse me c33 sand and then that's the last of any dewatering that's going to be happening on the project I um I propose if you guys are against that we can put a dewatering pit but I don't think I think the best solution in terms of protective resource would just be the pump truck because there's not too much water that's going to need to be pumped out of this to finish up the project okay Alec thank you um just a a quick questions that I have observations that I had that day with um Tim and Kyle can you with your cursor highlight the lot line on the right side we are we are on the adjacent property with current fill and then after that Alec if you could address the erosion control measures and if they've been reinforced yes so I was um so again can you guys see the property line right there that's the property line there then the Jason house would um forget I think there a new address for it now looks I believe it's new construction at the time and didn't have a address registered to it um but that's so in terms of the control I know you guys requested to add additional erosion control about 60t lengths to cover the Disturbed soil and that is before construction starts I have to confirm with the contractor whether they I advise them to install the erosion control per year request on the visit I obviously wasn't there but they are intending and planning on doing that as part of the process and um if you guys have any additional concerns of the erosion we can address that now as well so I I guess you had failure in a few spots um below the septic system as you're facing the lake and then on the right side where your cursor just was so Tim correct me if I'm wrong those were two areas that were noticeable that you had brakes or you had fill that was spilling over yeah so the area by to the rear of the property was where we had a a rip in the um in the Waddles and then uh on the right side of the property we had uh a good amount of soil going over the the Waddles I'm so so this is a little bit news to me so I don't get all the details I was on vacation early this week so um but that's a that I can't I I don't want to say words on make a liar on myself but we can confirm that's address and if Tim would want to come out for a site walk before the work obviously continues and make sure all the erosion is corrected by them that's something certainly we can do sure I I'm perfectly comfortable in fact think that the right approach is to take the water off site there are two elements of this that I want to make sure are not lost in the shuffle here and they're they're probably frankly outside of our purview they're more Board of healths um but if if the issue here is that water was significantly higher than anticipated um I want to make sure that the Board of Health has been notified of that and has considered that field condition and whether or not not it impacts the design of the septic system so that's number one number two is um associated with the discharge and where It ultimately went to actually there's three things discharge and where It ultimately went to Tim this is more a question for Tim Tim do you know was there a significant amount of sediment there essentially that was captured in catch basins or the catch basins in okay condition and so on um are you talking about the the catch Basin down by like going into Frog Pond right where where it was discharged yeah so it was discharging I mean the immediate uh discharge was up onto Ivy it went all the way down Ivy and then all the way down Lake into the um the storm drain going into Frog Pond okay I didn't notice a terrible difference in you know it's hard to say because try to compare it to like when I've previously seen it and I don't I haven't really taken detailed like observations of of how it was before um I didn't notice anything egregious okay yeah I think Chase that's a good point because we don't know if a lot has been captured in that catch Basin so we may want to talk to um DPW to have that cleaned I I think that's right or or it's at least worth having DPW come pull it just to make sure that there's not a unreasonable accumulation of sediment there um Alex when I look that would be y go ahead y so is that something Chase from a proced standpoint would be on his to-do list but would Alec be the one to call DPW or would Tim on Alex's behalf I think it have to be Tim because I can't have the that' be like a govern request from the DPW which should be a governing body so I think that had to be Tim to requested I think that's probably right I'm also perfectly comfortable lifting well allowing the work to proceed that that's not an immediate harm at this point if the water's going to be taken off but I do uh think that we need to resolve that before we lift the enforcement order to confirm that the sedimentation there wasn't problem um want me to answer the first question you had oh yeah go ahead um we have two yeah like I said I was I wasn't available this early this week the video I saw it didn't look like there's much suspended solids it was pretty clear discharge and it wasn't coming out at a high rate and then the term is for the high groundwater it uh the reason why we're having it we had SE we had redock around like 24 30 inches and now we're just having seat pitches High uh around 24 30 inches which is estimated seasonal High groundwater so the the system itself is still two feet above the estimated seasonal High groundwater it's Alec I'm I'm gonna stop you right here I all I want to do is make sure Board of Health is aware and if they bless it like we are not in a position to tell you it's okay or it's not understood yeah they aware Jim's aware it's everything's still compliant with the um okay Title Five and local regulations I I would like to see confirmation that that Jim has been made aware of that not just in terms of a field inspection an email you can forward it to Tim just as a yeah absolutely he will because he asked so Jim has to do the field inspection so he's able to see where groundwater is when he does his inspection but we can certainly have Jim forward an email to Tim to confirm that for you guys okay so there is an interesting um situation here because in the order of conditions and through the process of permitting we noted that dewatering was not we had asked and the applicant said no we also have a condition that says that this work would be done during the summer months and so that might be why we're having some high water as well Tim correct me if I'm wrong is that conditions I don't know if that was a condition I know that it was stated in the minutes that that's what the appc Yeah that's what the applicant stated of record yeah granted if it was last year this summer it would have been same result because groundwater's been about three feet above average the past year and a half so unfortunately it's been very wet but I um I did have to double check with the conditions if that was part of of it or Tim says not but regardless it's um groundwater is where it is now and it's been pretty consistent throughout the summer as well spring and fall the past year and a half okay other Commissioners questions comments U I guess I do have one comment I'm not interested in fully lifting the enforcement order until we understand what the status of the catch Basin but I'm willing to allow uh the the work to proceed but I want the enforcement order to live until it's fully resolved does that does that make some sense absolutely so Alec what that means that tonight we would come up with guidelines for what we're allowing you to do in but parallel to that is that you have to make sure you're fulfilling other obligations like the catch Basin um but foremost you wouldn't be able to start until the erosion controls are refreshed and Tim or Amy if she's back has had a chance to approve that with usually two days notice understood yep and then in addition you would have the water truck there the dewatering truck there yep that's okay that's a that's the plan so what are your with all this information what do you think would be your goal to start as soon as Tim's able to get out I'll have a conversation with the uh the installer tomorrow this evening to see if the Roan controls un addressed and then um as soon as Tim's able to get out there um we'd like to start that going so we can get the project finished up so yeah I can get out there I mean I'm in tomorrow until about 12:30 so yeah I'll see if I'll follow up with them after if we can um coordinate you to get out there um so we can wrap it up that uh that like I said after that there's no more water issue we'll be above seasonal High ground water and that won't be a concern obviously we need to address the erosion control brakes and catch Basin but they just want to get the the hole itself the system itself installed okay so I think realistically unless they can get the erosion controls really in order tomorrow you might be looking at um Tims and inspection on Monday yes nothing from when we left pardon me I said yep absolutely because I don't know if they fix fixed the I was agreeing with you yeah okay so Tim I I don't think realistically and with this time crunch and all that you've got going on right now with town meeting prep um I would say if you want to leave a message either over the weekend or shoot an email um perhaps Monday or Tuesday um be able to get out or a commissioner can go out as well so we're going to keep the enforcement order in place and so um what I'm hearing is that we are going to allow you to go ahead to go forward once erosion control is installed and approved and you have the um dewatering truck there then you can go ahead and start with a septic system that sounds fair yep and then also the cash Basin too we'll have to deal with it as well so we got that three things so that's not a problem we can uh take care of that and we'll be in communication with Tim um via email or however is the best so okay sounds like a plan our next our next meeting Tim is the 14th yep so Alec we would put you on for an update um we would want you to come in for an update on the 14th yep let me just throw that in the calendar make sure I got no other conflicted meetings but we will make that work May 14th correct time is yep Tuesday 7 o'clock okay any any other questions for 10 Ivy okay all right thank you it be around that time Al it may not be exactly at seven I'll check the meetings and it's that's not a problem well thank you guys for squeezing Us in and uh we'll be in touch yeah actually it wouldn't even be till after 7:30 yeah yeah be it'll be definitely after 7:30 okay thank for joining us thank you guys have a good evening yeah thank you um unless we have any other comments or discussions are we good motion to uh actually before we entertain that motion Tim I I do think we should still post a meeting for the Tuesday night of town meeting for the conservation commission just in case something comes up that needs to be addressed I would rather have it posted and then not use it then the other way around what uh what time are we looking for uh call it 15 minutes before town meeting half an hour before town meeting I I might check in with Jim and see what what he advises there okay do you enough time Chase sorry you broke up a little bit there sir sorry is there enough time to post today's Thursday so that will be Friday meaning is not until Tuesday so yeah if I get in tomorrow so it's three calendar days not three business days two two calendar and I do know that um CPC will be meeting jointly with fincom and select board at 6 PM so I don't know if we wanted to maybe post for 6 PM just in case something crazy came up we can do that and then Wrangle a quorum if we really need it yeah did I hear I heard six o'clock yep okay I will now second Andrew motion roll call votes have a motion yor uh Ed Sarah uh she dropped I heard her say I before she dropped yeah ah and myself I so it's unanimous all right thanks everybody evening