##VIDEO ID:jdHwNMkvHwI## so let's go ahead and start I'd like to open September 10th 2024 Litton Conservation Commission at 7:30 via Zoom um does anyone have anything they would like to add to administrative discussions I have a few you all go first the um item about the mosquito control and uh yep the restrictions that are being suggested on outdoor activities yep I have that one okay Amy I just have some small updates that's not worth going into but I just run through those and a couple minutes when we get a chance okay great I would like to add a few things one um that can fall under our discussion for neog Hill Farm was just an update from the meeting from the select board last night I'd like to roll that into to that um I would like to add a discussion about um those of us sitting in on townland inventory to C help um Amy and Tim cross check what is currently owned by the town but should possibly be conservation and how we go forth with that um and I'd like to have a discussion if time permits about reinstituting what we did a very long time ago about having project Liaisons um for small and for large as well anybody have anything else they'd like to add do we have anywhere here where we would be talking about the uh water department well report that was sent out this week I think they are yeah they had asked to be continued because they weren't sure when that was coming in okay right yeah and that does warrant discussion for sure um okay so without further Ado let's go ahead approve minutes for August 6th does anyone have any omissions or corrections I have one on page two in the first paragraph It's just grammatical um to allow the water levels to stay drawn down throughout the winter or is it supposed to be the Winter's plural I had a question on that it was Mr bar mentioned that they are going to work with an engineer to allow the water level to stay draw down throughout the winter or Winter's plural I'll go back and double check I assume it was plural but I'd have to listen again just to make sure okay yep I didn't know that that was my only question anybody have anything if not would like would someone like to make a motion I'll make a motion that the Commission accept the meeting minutes as amended second all right roll call vote can you guys hear me now that my camera's off yes thank you perfect perfect all right roll call vote Carl Alber Ed Ed F Kyle uh Michael Michael let me hi Chase Chase g i Sarah Sarah Seward I and myself I it's unanimous okay thank you glad we're all here okay moving on August 20th 2024 draft minutes a mes changes anything I just have one grammatical on page two under tree policy it says discuss the possibility of payment in Li of replating let's just add it as replanting you don't want to Plate the trees you never know somebody might want when they look when they look at this historic data years from now Sarah really got a red pen out for these minutes all right it was your topic too chase you would have thought all right anybody want to make a motion to approve I move that way approve the August 20 2024 minutes I'll second roll call votes Carl mber gu Ed Ed FY Kyle Max Michael Michael living I chase chase G guy Sarah Sarah Seward I myself I it's unanimous okay awesome let's go to as described on our agenda continued discussion enforcement order 161 to hat on tree removal I just let Alex in so I think she can give you a summary of of uh what she's been up to perfect thank you Amy uh yes I've been working with a landscape architect to determine the placement and specific trees and shrubs to plant uh within the buffer zone that we talked about I have a rough draft that I can show to the group today or another time and I'm waiting on the septic designed to be formally approved for the upper component but since most of the trees where out of that range um I have a plan so I think what would be helpful is if you could submit that to Amy if you want or do we commission what would you you want to so that we can all look at that or do you want to discuss it now I think so Alex what we' like to do is to kind of digest some of that stuff ahead of time and where he just kind of dropped it tonight if you could make sure there's a plan and where those plantings might be and we'd like to put you on for the next meeting if that's feasible great I did to Amy but it was I think just Friday right before this I knew we wer gonna get it in um and yes I we I can coordinate with her to get on the next meeting perfect that would be great we appreciate your um continuing up on this do you have any questions for the commission or commission have any questions I don't we I think talked to Amy separately to go through some details um and I think I'm out of town for the next meeting but I'll coordinate with her so okay great and I just can I just double check all you said um are you going for Board of Health approval already or the plan just still being uh I'd have to check on the septic part I think it's already going through Board of Health and he was hoping to have I didn't get an update for tonight but he was hoping to have that done this month and so I think that's well in the works is any of the grading or anything in the buffer zone for the septic system uh potenti a little bit Yeah so Amy that's going to be a separate filing yes uh the whole thing would be one those in 10 for the septic and the replacement okay all right great thank you for that okay anybody else have any questions and Sarah there's a number of people uh attendees I'm not sure who they all are so I might just make sure as we get into the hearings if there's any comments or chase when you're in charge so okay thank you for people that are listening we're now discussing 161 to hat on if anybody has any questions please do so by raising your hand if not we'll move on okay thank you thanks for night y thank you continue discussion enforcement order 30 Warren Street unpermitted construction of a walkway within the buffer zone and work in the rear yard Amy uh Casey wasn't able to make it um but uh basically he uh Scott Hayes at the end of last week uh was moving forward on the sort of stormwater piece of things but didn't have a report yet um and he is trying to get a contractor to do the Wetland side of things so moving ahead but hasn't broken ground yet okay so in good faith they're still going forward yes okay thank you land use per permit Hartwell cross country team that we discussed at the last meeting uh yeah so so this is so that the cross country team who usually runs in proudy can use heart well um for their their practice runs not meets um and proudy is still closed I I think they're getting closed but not real close so uh would like to make the land use permit a um an official vote okay do we have someone that would like to make that motion to approve and and if I could also say if if you're agreeable including that approvement that that I can extend it if proud remains closed past the 15th sounds good I'll um I'll make a motion that the commission issue a land use permit to the Littleton High School uh cross country track team uh for the heartwall property with the caveat that Amy would be able to extend the permits uh do we want to say like for an extra month at a time as needed yeah because they're close but yeah a month at a time sounds good perfect have a second second all right roll call votes Carl mberg I Ed Ed I Kyle Kyle Max Michael michaelston I chase chase kig I Sarah Sarah Seward I and myself I it's unanimous thank you next request for partial certificate of compliance 93 mwani Trail Mass d [Music] 204-9673 they're they're basically um that particular 93 Manan key they're they're selling the property and the new owners are not going to continue with the benic m um so the what was it little 104 so owners uh this one's Dr a part comp so that their property is removed from it basically clear their title sort of the others remain active and the mat has been removed yes yes okay do we have a motion I'll make a motion to issue a certificate of compliance uh for 93 matany Trail the partial sorry I second the partial certificate all right roll call vote Carl car M guy Ed Ed F Kyle Max Michael Michael Livingston I chase chase gbck I Sarah Sarah Seward I and myself I it's unanimous okay thank you continued request for certificate of calance 260 Foster Street Mast EP 204-1967 uh this is the old farmhouse that now the Housing Authority um has control of and this was from the septic system we were basically waiting for grass to grow the grass has grown erosion controls move so I think it's all set for a certificate okay great do we have a motion I move that we issue a certificate of compliance 260 Foster Street Mass d 204-9673 Livingston I chase chase KCK I Sarah Sarah Seward I and myself I it's unanimous okay next update 336 King Street Hager Homestead update Mast 20491 six so so this is just a an an update heads up they might be coming in for a partial certificate compliance to clear out the the contractor basically uh however what would be remaining is the plantings they're going to do along the buffer zone in the back um so I think maybe at some point either a site walk or just put in your head about whether or not you'd want to give a partial on that um they were going to plant I forget the numbers but it was just a linear strip along there and there are some exceedingly enthusiastic people out there who want to see this done and more than considerably more than what was required um so you can just just just so you can mull it over before it actually shows up in front of you okay is there any discussion with this anyone have any questions when are we discussing if we should be going out there before this comes in front of us I guess it sounded like Amy asked us a question but we didn't really give her an answer I I I would wait for a s sidewalk until they actually submit something okay so we have like the ad built and everything in front of us but but um it really was just an FYI Tim and I walked over there with them and about the plantings piece of it and like I said they're very enthusiastic and so people who are living there who are going be doing it and doing the monitoring so I can already see Gardens and everything on decks back decks people have moved in and made themselves pretty comfortable so cool okay um tree policy hey we we have more things to talk about the tree policy look it we're g do this two weeks in a row here um Amy Tim and I met with Town Council on I don't know last week um to discuss the concept of a payment in Li of replacement policy and the long and short of it is that it is possible to do that there are some particular requirements there particularly around the value of it whether it's a tax or a feed some some sort of very important Nuance to make sure it's legal but at the end of the day it is not something that we are let's say legally prohibited from doing um we don't have to do it though it's it's simply a matter of whether or not we think that's an important part of the tree policy um so that's number one we'll Circle back to this that in a second number two is on that call was Matt kahill from the sh tree committee and um we've used that meeting to sort of help Matt and the shade tree committee move forward their Town bylaw regarding shade trees and I believe Amy maybe you could give us an update but I believe they're going to be on in front of the select board at the next regularly scheduled select board meeting to discuss that shade tree policy or I'm sorry shade tree bylaw bylaw yes yeah I'm I'm not 100 % sure I believe they were invited whether or not they feel ready or not I I don't know if they've responded to that um because just quickly the select board also had um as a placeholder for Warren article they they mentioned your policy also and I'm just taking a wild guess here that our policy is not going to be ready for no not for the meeting okay didn't want to speak for you well and on on top of that it's not obious to me that aside from potentially the payment in Le of policy which would have a a funding component if if that wasn't present I'm not sure any of our policy would need to go before town meeting right because it's policy not bylaw for us yeah correct however if there is a funding component it may require some bylaw and there's some questions that would still need to be resolved around whether or not the funds from a payment in L of policy go into the general fund or whether they go into a revolving fund and that will have some implications regarding bylaw um if it were to go into the general fund we could let's say Loosely keep track of it but it doesn't go into a specific you know purpose if it goes into a revolving fund there are some additional hoops and hurdles that we have to jump through but it also allows us to control the resources and make sure that the purpose of the tree replacement funds that is pro protection of resource areas is under our sort of more Direct Control curious um Chase can you direct funds potentially into say the shade tree committee I think we could uh I I will tell you that I would be I'm not sure that's a great idea okay I was just curious I I think we could do that I I believe that would require still a bylaw to do that here here's why I'm not crazy about that idea but I'm happy to be overruled the shade tree committee is really looking at the the aesthetic and sort of species diversity relevant to what you see right the visible roadways things like that whereas our interests are going to be much more in the ecological significance thank you for that Clarity okay I assume Sarah that your question was not directed specifically sha tree but if there were somewhere that we wanted to redirect the funds could we do so or were you really specifically referring to yeah it was it was specific to shade tree because I'm not I'm not aware of other sure places we could that is specifically to trees but I I certainly follow and carry the same sentiment for for um Chase's comments that I I think it's wise not to put the money there I I agree say something something real quick Amber I can't seem to promote Greg hopmouth who's on next could you either give that a shot or Greg you might want to log out and log back in again sorry I chase could try though because Chase is co-host okay he's coming okay there all right I keep getting a panelist failed thank you sorry so Chasey I think it's a great opportunity to get the the temperature of of the members to see what their thoughts are for a path forward yeah that's what I'd really like to do here I mean I think there are two questions one is knowing that it is theoretically legal what is the appetite for a payment in lie of policy is the is the payment in Loop for uh numbers of trees removed interesting question I actually um I want to talk to you all about that as well I would argue that right now it's structured as number of trees removed but I think we might want to think about it in the context of uh inches of trees removed and I I think there are nuances there that we can go through I want to show you a couple forms if you're up for it and and also Carl on that track if there's a site that just has it's too dense that there's no other opportunity for successful viability of more trees can they just put money into the fund or did they have to go find another place in Littleton where they can plant their trees yes so that was going to be my question I guess it's I'm sorry I missed the last meeting in Chase I haven't looked at um kind of the edits and comments that you have made to the document but yeah I'm okay with this approach but I think the applicant has to exhaust all on-site options for and I I hope there's language if not then I will add some language like that for you to review but I think to exhaust all options on site and show that it's not viable to to do on site before we just take money for trees somewhere else right that it would be up to the conservation to really determine that you haven't exhausted all efforts yeah and I I think that was also um Town council's recommendation right that what we've got to be very clear of if we have a payment in lie of policy is that it is its purpose is to replace the Lost ecological surfaces uh services and values presented by those trees I think a tree in Fay Park does nothing from taking a tree out of a buffer zone right like that's in principle but the um Town Council did indicate that it would be permissible for us to use those funds fairly broadly So like um let's say we wanted to use those funds for serving a piece of property not all of which was in a buffer zone or or a wetland um her General opinion was that was I meant more compared to putting sending this money to shade tree where that's not a NE so yeah I think we're on the same page that I gotta say I'm 100% in favor of the payment in L and and the reason I think that is think about the the Littleton well o over that we went round and around on taking out a God only knows how many trees destroying ecology didn't have enough room they they set it up front we don't have enough room to put the trees back and so we compromised on what we would take but in this particular If This Were in place we would have probably I would hope taken what we can and then had them uh submit remuneration for the difference you know I'm still not happy about that project so yep okay so what I'm hearing is payment and L generally supportive of that as a concept the second question is if there is a payment in lie of policy your interest in that going to the general fund which is an administratively easier process may not require town meeting approval necessarily versus a revolving fund for these dedicated resources which Amy correct me if I'm wrong that would require some sort of town meeting vote right if there was a revolving fund I I wasn't I had the feeling that um either way it would need you know one town meeting to set it up and then if it's going into the general fund it would just be in the town meeting every time to take money back out you it's I I forget exactly what she said frankly but it's that's the concept but it revolving fund being a a touch more complicated on the front end but easier on the back end in terms of spending those resources yeah I don't think we of this yeah I'm not at all in favor of putting it in the general fund we lose control it's basically think about as you're giving it to the IRS with the with the expectation or hope that they will trust you to be able to get it back later I I I concur I'd rather do more work now and hopes that we have more I mean we not confident that this would be supported in a town meeting if you know if that were the case then maybe we could talk about that but I don't don't think that I'm worried about backing us up on that I tend to agree get approval just I want to keep control of it okay and there's also the possibility and I go back and forth on that of putting it into CPC where we get a match but it's a still thing you kind of you lose a little bit of control over it yeah there is sort of an interesting opportunity right to roundtrip money through CPC and get a 20 25% or 30% kicker on it but then we have to let Andrew deal with it of it true very true there's something to be said about adding 25% economically in my my I'm not sure if it's 25% anymore but yeah absolutely control of the money so so the match um does vary yearby year depending on how many towns have um linked up to CPC and what they have um at the state level in terms of the budget um in recent years it's hovered between I'd say 20 and 30 % on average it's it's not too bad the only problem yeah with the only problem with putting it into CPC too though is um like if we want to use it it's it's you have to go through a vote of the committee and then it has to go to town meeting and in most cases the the money isn't available until you know the next fiscal year so it's probably better to have it in in like a revolving fund dedicated to what we're looking to do um I'd love to for us to get a match but at that point too we're kind of locked into using it for either just open space preservation or um in some cases invasive plant control so yeah talk to me out of it so what I'm hearing is generally an interest in a revolving fund so we can pursue that and maybe let's not close the door on CPC but it's not a it's not a number one priority yeah okay um the last thing that I want to discuss with you all is this concept and I'm going to share my screen here of a payment in Lee of policy or even a yeah a payment in Le of policy that looks at you all see my screen here looks at the payment in Li of based on the diameter of breast height that we're removing um so these sort of forms that I built could be incorporated but they're examples right now imagine that we've got five trees being removed and the total DB of those trees is 74 in um if we say okay we have 74 inches to be removed and this is a matter of policy we would expect 50% of those to be replaced that some communities don't use a 100% inch for inch replacement but we could choose what that number is let's set that aside for a second um if it's 50% that me means we've got 37 in that need to be replaced and then what we do is we say okay what are you replacing on site and we give a certain amount of credit probably a small amount of credit for shrubs and then we look at the trees that are going to be replaced and we look at the total diameter of those that's being replaced compare it to what they were required to replace the Delta is what they have to pay in lie of and that's got a cost per inch associated with it we've seen everywhere from around $100 to almost $400 per inch of tree that needs to be replaced but in this example the payment in Li of would be $6,450 so give you some sense of how this would look if we did payment in Li on an inch basis rather than on a per tree basis and the question I have for you is your your appetite for per tree versus per inch I like the per inch I do too I like the pur but keep in mind that This lends itself to I'll use the word argument about well that tree is not really 15 inches it's only 12 you know um that so as long as we're okay and and I'm okay with that possibility the per inch definitely gives us more back because as we all know the the new tree will be smaller than the tree cut down I mean we're not just going well we wouldn't be just listening to a homeowner say it's a 12in tree right most the when we're talking trees being removed they've had to have an arborus come in and show us that they need to be removed or something that's why there's usually some sort of an engineering or science behind it right where there's somebody else's kind of proven Yeah Yeah well yeah want get he said she said like we measured 12 inches but I don't know if that's I mean I guess it is a think would see that very often do we want to embed or incorporate into it who determines the dbh and saying that there would be an Arbus telling us that the tree has to come down why can't the arus give us the number as well would right that would be in their report so that's yeah yeah and what I Invision rebuild these forms like they they're going to have to populate these forms as part of their submission right standard here's tell tell us what you've got and and then furthermore show us in the replacement where right blueberry bush one two and three where are those going to go right so we can look on the on the figure and see those um so again generally hearing consent to this at least in principle The Next Step here is I'd like to work with Matt kahill to to start to think about what the approp cost per inch of a replacement is and I think the appropriate way to do that is look at what does it cost to replant certain types of trees of certain sizes one of the things Matt recommended though is that that should also include multiple years worth of right if the if the town were to take those resources and replant a tree they would have to buy the tree they'd have to plant the tree they'd also have to care for the tree for a number of years for it to establish so we want to develop a a a reasonable but let's say economically based number for that cost per inch and I think that's the next step here I'm going to tell you I think it's going to be in this sort of few hundred doll range like a a two and a half inch tree is not cheap to purchase and plant to say nothing of the labor the the the the problem is uh Chase is at the I me we've been losing some awful big trees and to replace those big trees with 2 and 1/2 in dbh replacement tree I've always had problems with I don't know how you replace a big tree you know I did some research on that Carl and I'm far from an arborist but like the maximum size that you can plant is really not very big I know that's the problem right aren't we kind of throttling what they're going to bring down anyway though you know so they can't just like arbitrarily cut down down whatever trees they want and say Here's 10 grand thank you and you know you could consider that I mean the water the water district project is a good example I mean there's some fairly good siiz trees being taken down but they're not being replaced by good siiz trees right I think we can certainly look at all the developments that we've had we've had none of these tools in our toolbx so and the pricing of this is going to be a challenge right we don't want to create a moral hazard where it just makes more sense to cut down trees and write a check so I think what you're trying to do Chase with this is it could potentially be a deterrent right also which is really what we're trying to do we don't really want their money we rather deter them from cutting the tree in the first place and Kyle's already crafted a lot of useful language with that so I think I've got more than enough here to keep working forward with us Kyle Circle back with you and think about how we can put some of these pces in but um directionally this is where we're going that's great um certainly we all appreciate uh your time Chase and um Kyle's as well on this so we making great Headway um I know that we are behind schedule it's a little bit after 3 we're going to start the 7:45 public hearing I am um listed as an a butter so I'm going to recuse myself and someone's going to put me in magically as as an attendee and Chase will um chair this hearing there she goes there she goes um so we're gonna Amy do we have a m EP number on this uh and red yet no no okay so we're we're GNA open up this public hearing for 550 New Town Road um Amy do you want to give us a little bit of background on it first and then we'll ask the applicant to describe what their propos and then I think start to get into the scope of the anrad uh sure yeah just quickly so this is just for the Wetland resource area approval it's got nothing to do what's being built um they had a plan in front of the con in front of the planning board um for the self storage building that's up the top of the hill um and I went out there and looked and it looked like some of their work was going to be in the 100 foot buffer zone and I didn't 100% approve of that line that was maybe last year I don't know um so I I had said you know before I can write off on the the planning board I need a better idea on the um the wet lineation which is what Epsilon has done and what Greg is here to talk about okay very good I also understand that there may be some members of the public who have who want to comment on this just for those who do want to comment what we're going to do is we're going to give Greg from Epsilon an opportunity to describe the project um and then the commission will discuss it and at that time we'll also open it up for public comment so Greg if you're able to jump on and share your screen and sort of Orient us to what's going on that would be very helpful sure I'd be happy to um thank you for the record uh Greg hawkmoth from Epsilon Associates uh we were hired by uh the applicant um of 550 New Town Road to delineate a portion of the resource areas on the subject parcel and I should start out by saying that it's a 40 acre parcel and we're only looking at a small area and I'll share my screen and I'm in here and oh it looks like it's disabled me see if I can Elevate you here Greg okay you should be able to share now Greg or did I just disappear think yeah it having a hard time uh video in the first place see he makes it this time I'm back sorry about that Greg that's all right yeah it still says it's uh host disabled participant screen sharing Amy any thoughts on this um sh if IAD yeah I'm trying to get to the town website so I can see if I can share it yeah sir I know sometimes you can uh make someone a co-host I don't know if that's an option that would be fine Amber if you've got the ability to mreg a co-host go ahead and do that you should be able to do it now let me try that yeah perfect thank you all right I'll start out with u massgis just to get everybody on the same page so 550 New Town Road is this this giant parcel that you see here uh it borders on for pond um it's got the giant building out front that Amy was just referring to um the area that we're looking at is uh the edge of the BBW in this General location that sheds a buffer up towards the existing building um there's lots of other resource areas on the property we delineated bvw and we're hoping to get a small portion of the extensive dvw approved mov d as well as the um Zone a there's a Zone a out here which is it's not an AE unfortunately um this is the rough location of it there's no elevation so meramac engineering put the anrad plan together and they showed the graphic depiction of the uh Zone a which is well within the BBW it doesn't really come into play but we did want to get that approved as part of this project um I can share the anrad plan can everybody see that uh right now we've got the gis still oh okay it's probably just taking a taking a sec here let me stop share and then I'll try sharing yeah sometimes you have to unshare and share again okay all right everybody's get that yes y yes all right so you can see Fort Pond is way on the right here uh that graphic depiction of Zone a is this line that we've shaded in blue um and then the green which I'll zoom in in a minute is the edge of bvw and the yellow is 100 foot buffer so here's the building up here again on New Town Road Omega way is along the top of the screen it's really the BBW uh we found a lot of altered soils I don't know the history out here there's a lot of strange linear features in the BBW itself they almost look like mosquito ditches we did find some historic fill which was very very old uh there were you know 18inch trees growing out of it uh but nothing along the Wetland Edge out here until you got uh planned South seemed natural uh it looked like that area was worked over and filled and I'd love to know the history but you can see where the existing leeching facility is for the building that's shown up here and it just Clips the buffer zone I did find some old Flags they looked very old um but this is this is the general location that we're asking the commission to review our resource area boundaries um I do want to point out that there are well there is a perennial stream uh it is Long Pond Brook which flows under Omega way and I'm going to go back to mass mapper just because I think that makes the most sense here so I'm going to freeze the thema layer these are those linear features I was just describing uh they don't look very natural then they converge into a single Channel and then eventually flow towards Fort Pond uh this stream that you see here is the stream that's called Long Pond Brooke on the USGS map it is shown as perennial there's no argument being made that it's not I'm sure it is uh we wanted to point that out because it's 800 feet from our delineated BBW boundaries so that's why we didn't delineate it um the riverfront area on this parcel fell falls about 400 feet short of our bvw boundary so I think if an oat is issued just to protect the commission from a potential future filing uh probably put something in your findings noting that there is Riverfront area on the parcel however it was not part of this anrat application or something along those lines and Greg one question real quick those those sort of linear features um the what they drain into are are you considering that to throw off a Riverfront area as well or is that not good question good question and I can't take all the credit for this Amy let me know that there was some questions about some of the other streams on the on the parcel so we did do a little research there's two other tributaries that flow into this parcel one of which is the convergence of these three linear chain channels um the these three linear channels don't show on stream stats however there was a digitized center line for this reach here so I clicked my delineation point close to weld Pond and let stream stats calculate the Watershed um and it had a 05 square mile Watershed so so not even close to the 0.5 that would be needed let alone the one so it's a very small Watershed contributing to this point there's another stream that comes in from I believe it's um known as doleful Pond and that it's tough to see on here U but I'm going to put on the linear feature figure and you can see I think this is Dole full pond up here on the left and you can see there's a shadow above this blue line that de has I imagine that's the Stream we did uh we were able to run stream stats on that as well it did have a digitized center line that had a 0.14 square mile water shed so still far less of what would be required for it to be deemed perennial um but we did want to point that out so there's no Riverfront area associated with that stream um or this other stream that's close to our delineation line but we didn't bother running it on Long Pond Brook because we assume it's well over a half square mile probably well over a mile um the BBW boundary itself I'm going to go back to our plan sorry for all the bouncing right did you want to see the stream stats that we have I can pull up those watersheds if you want to see them I think it that may be a component that you should include in your filing if it's not already there Greg I'm not sure I saw it but I'm not y we can include that um I won't bother pulling them up tonight but we'll include that since we don't have a file number yet yeah and and I would anticipate Greg even if you did have a file number that we probably wouldn't close tonight in any sure yeah so this fast forward back to this plan and that stream we were talking about that comes down from dolle is it's somewhere over here um and then those three linear features are up in this G general area and this little finger that you see coming out out of Fort Pond is the convergence of those streams they flow in here and then the perennial stream is is down in this location Long Pond Brook so I mean I'd be happy to answer any questions the commission might have um I know I just said a lot I did get some calls from at least two abouts uh they were curious about what we did here why they were receiving notice I explained that this was the first step um getting the resource areas approved I don't know what the filing is or the plans are for this property down the road but I did share with them that this is usually the first step of something and that if something is proposed that they would be notified as they were before if a notice of intent is filed I I think that is an important reminder here Greg right that as a as an anrad we're we're only looking at the resource area delineation the subsequent disposition of this property is not up for consideration currently what are we being asked to do I'm a little confused Ju Just and the the real question is our approval of the resource area delineations and really what the purpose of that is to get everyone to agree on what the resource area delineations are to then allow the property owner to do with the resource areas delineations as they will going forward has has uh Amy have you had a chance to go look at this line I I looked at the old line or or maybe the middle old line um before Epsilon got out there and I had some questions about it um at which point Epsilon ref flagged it all so I've seen pieces of it uh I gotta tell you in the middle of it it's like a lot of rose bushes it's um it's fun moving around this is one of the sites why I I left Consulting because I didn't want to have to make go through that anymore make this is where we follow the consultant around yeah with a with a machete but yes so it needs to be Rew walked so I I will say that we we moved our flags up gradient uh quite a bit from some of the old flags that we saw yeah I think there was some confusion with just the soils um they didn't go down deep enough would be my guess uh because of the fill that was out there and the and because the vegetation has been worked over it it's a little confusing back there so this is the first step they're putting some kind of plan together for some use of that property so that they know where the 100 foot buffer and the 50 Foot buffer and any other important Wetlands reside okay and they they potentially could be entirely outside our jurisdiction depending on what they end up developing but that's down the road yeah well that's a a big old building there um I I know there were some members of the public who had some comments and concerns here Amy I I don't know if you want to Hazard a a guess at sort of characterizing their concerns or if you'd prefer to just let the members of the public who do have concerns I think if they want to raise their hand I can I can let them speak um I haven't seen anything I think I saw some something from somebody come through in my email just now but I haven't read any of that yeah I'm gonna let uh John into to comment on this as long as hey can you hear me yes we can John um so yeah my name is John Lewis uh my wife Amy Ty Lewis we're at free Omega way so we're located um in the top left hand corner of the picture that I for what you called it um the last picture we looked at so we well the last plot of land we uh purchased the house 20 years ago in 2004 and when we purchased the land we were not inside the 100 foot uh buffer zone and I see with this new drawing that we now have the 100ft buffer zone uh across through the bottom of our of our property quite significantly and we have some mature maple trees and some dying ash trees in that area and we also have uh an earth Bank quite a considerable pitch on that uh which we try and maintain and we do use the the bottom area for example I have uh my apy there uh when we purchased so when we purchased the property there was we were not in the buffer zone um now this looks like we're in the 100 for buffer zone when I look at your map it looks like that you have counted uh the catchment basement so there's a manmade catchment basement uh below us uh and that's been counted as wetlands and I think that's why the line has moved so what we see happen is that all the runoff off the roof and off the hard surfice the hardcap by the parking area it runs directly at out of a couple of drains one of which runs across our neighbors the Ryan's property it runs straight down ours and into that catchment area which is why it's wet because it's always receiving that um you know water fill that's all why it's wet so it's it's a man-made catchment it's not a wet Lance and so that's quite for us that's quite a significant change to our property would you like to respond to that or yeah Greg if if if you don't mind yeah I think if you don't mind to respond I sure sure so when when you purchased the property in 2004 um you know I I wasn't there in 2004 I don't know what it looked like in 2004 but what I can tell you is today it's it's definitely a jurisdictional wetland resource area without question and it is contiguous with the larger BBW system that's uh further south East um perhaps there's been Beaver activity I don't know but it's it's definitely connected to the larger resource area today so you you know you can go and dig a hole and then come back and say it's a Wetlands so I'm but it's um it's it's a little bit more than that it's uh combination of soils indicated of hydrology and a predominance of wetland vegetation and you've got all three or the area adjacent to your parcel has all three you know we need what we need to maintain our property otherwise you know you know we have problems understood Mr Lewis I I think at this point one of the things that may help move this forward is a s sidewalk and I I would propose that we certainly make we accommodate the abuts there since there is interest from the abutters in making sure that they can participate in that s sidewalk and see the delineation um I'm going to I have to check with my client first just to make sure that that's allow the I mean the commission's more than welcome but I'll have to check with my client when it comes to a buies understood yeah I apologize didn't mean to volunteer your client for that GRE but in this case they could stand on Omega way and look over um we have another hand raised uh Miss harlo Lewis I'm going to allow you to speak here yep can you hear me now yes we can yeah so I really think it's important for your client to come and see it because they have been damaging our property in the Ryan's property since both our houses have been here and they have been unresponsive to like dealing with the drainage issue they're their snow plow pushes trash down the hill their landscapers blow trash down the hill their customers throw trash down the hill and the other day I went and picked up the trash and brought it back to them and was not um yeah I that didn't go well um and you know you moved our flags and you're wrong so you need to go back and redo the work let let's let's pause for a second M Carlo Lewis your comments really should be directed at the commission not at at the applicant certainly happy to hear what you have to say but I I think we need to keep the balance here comments really need to come through US yeah so um yeah that's um what I got to say what what what was your address I'm just trying to determine where you were so my husband had told you it was three Omega way oh okay I was I wasn't aware you were you guys are on two different phones or computers um I'd like to keep going through the public comment here uh I'm not sure who is up first Mr how or Mr Ryan Mr how you are on top so I'll allow you to join and speak and give us your comments as well okay is that can you hear me okay yes we can Charles how Charles how 56 for New Town Road uh the maps that they show the property lines have me at the wrong address which is interesting uh the location of the brook that he's showing from doel pond is incorrect as that Brook runs right by my barn so I know exactly where that Brook goes and what he's pointing at actually is doel Pond is actually a meadow that flooded so it's not really the doel pond doel Pond's a little bit further back it's actually a smaller water would you mind to bring the figure up uh that showed the so the figure I was showing is m not something that we prepared um and the Blue Line's a little off but you can see the shadow above it I believe that's the stream yeah the stream comes down but then it flows over and goes in so it's not really down when you showed it on the other map where you showed the ponds The Dol Pond area so was the map that showed like the water itself yeah so that's that plan doesn't capture the stream because it's too far away uh but if it did have a Riverfront area associated with that 200 foot Riverfront area may have extended onto our parcel which is why I I thought I should point it out oh it it extends on the parcel and goes all the way down to four that book feeds for pond right but it's not a perennial stream so it doesn't have Riverfront area which is why what is a perennial stream Amy would you mind to describe a perennial stream for us I bet Greg and do an even better job because he did the stream stats most recently okay yeah so so a peren a stream shown as perennial uh well a perennial stream is a stream that flows year round and in 1996 uh the river protection act was put into place that uh extends a 200 foot Riverfront area from perennial streams um the definition of a perennial stream is a stream that's shown as perennial on the current USGS map um or a stream that's shown as intermittent or not shown at all that has a watershed size according to stream stats of one square mile or more or um an intermittent stream not shown an inter a stream shown as intermittent or a stream not shown at all that has a half square mile Watershed with certain other caveats can also be deemed perennial um in order to run stream stats which is a program that you can click on any point along a digitized channel that will tell you uh the contributing Watershed to that point of the stream uh we were able to do that on both these streams because they did have digitized center lines which was good news but they didn't even come close to the uh one square mile or half square mile one was 05 square miles and this one that we're looking at right here was 0.14 square miles um I'll be submitting all that data to the commission which will be available to the public um if if a butter is wanted to take a peek at that okay because this stream does run year long year round it's also fed by catch Basin too yeah Mr H there's two elements of the definition the running continuously and the size of the catchment uh the factor into this and in in this scenario even though it runs year long the size of the catchment that drains to it means that although it runs year long at least according to the applicant and I think we still need to take a look at this to confirm it it's not regulated with respect to the riverfront area can't like there was a a a house that was developed here at 5 62 New Town Road that looks fairly new was this stream looked at uh for that filing at all that was an anr along with there's other also two other anrs in that area too so I don't know they they they they they both got no of intent or orders and conditions um and that was considered intermittent okay but but they also includ it in your property that you're showing your 40 acres in is two anr properties that they had already put through they did three anr properties in that area through the planning board but understand here one thing to keep in mind here Mr how is that um even if it is an anr property as far as zoning and the planning board is concerned the Wetland protection act still can have uh jurisdictional resource right I'm just saying that that also goes down the bottom to where their area at my other concern is uh right now I know they showed the um the uh uh septic system area that has been deemed uh not useful so they're actually not even running on their septic they're running on quarter toilets so I'm not sure if this buffer land area is for their septic system or what their purpose of doing this is to be perfectly honest Mr how um I'm not sure we know but in the filing that they've made all they're looking for the commission to determine right now is the delineation of the jurisdictional areas um to the extent that they do something in the future let's say a new septic system um that would come through a different filing a notice of intent um presuming that there are jurisdictional resource areas involved yeah does the slope area feeding into this wet area have any concern for the good Mission uh it does to the extent that the um 100 foot buffer is and again I'm I'm taking the applicants word for it right now we we would like to look at this in the field I imagine um the conservation commission's jurisdiction here would extend 100 ft off of the edge of the bordering vegetated Wetland uh it would also extend 200 ft off of a Riverfront area if there was a perennial stream that had a qualifying Riverfront area but at least according to the applicant and we'll confirm this there isn't currently so although we may be concerned for lots of reasons from a let's say from a legal or jurisdictional perspective we are not allowed to be concerned at 101 feet but we will be concerned at 100 feet right potential potential seepage in a slope um could have ramifications because of what we're being asked to do here without any idea of what future construction I think we need to be very very careful because it almost feels like we're asking you to approve these lines and now we'll come back with a plan that you can't question the lines because you already approved them I'm I'm I'm I understand why that's being done because you know it's difficult to make a plan if you don't know where you can build but uh I'm just this is very uncomfortable that's exactly the reason for doing an anrad is so that they can they can plan with certainty that we have approved the line it's only good years but that's what it's there for just it's a little unnerving and I mean we've certainly had applicants come before us who have looked for an and rad we've agreed on the line and then they've very judiciously stayed just a hair outside of that line um I'd like to pause our commission comments for a second Mr Ryan you have your hand up I'm gonna let you express your comments here thank you yeah this is Dominic Ryan we live next door to uh John and Amy Lewis on 5444 New Town Road at the corner of New Town in Omega uh i' have sort two two points one is an observation and maybe the other's a question the point was raised a few minutes ago about having a Butters be able to stand on a mega way to watch the line that's really not possible unless you cut down all the trees to be able to see where the line is so that's not going to work and yet we as a Butters are going to have a very strong vested interest in agreeing with what that line is at the end of the day so I would ask you to uh in you know implore the owner to make it possible for the abuts to jointly Walk the Line when this thing is evaluated uh the second is maybe a clarification question as John was pointing out earlier um when his property was purchased there was no uh notion of it being part of a wetland Zone uh so the question is if man-made activity happens that now appears to be you you can now modify what the original land was based on man-made activity is that what I'm hearing um it's more complicated than that but yes there are circumstances in which man-made activity particularly um unpermitted man-made activity that happened long ago is contributed to Wetlands as we delineate them today um there are very clear Provisions in the Wetland protection act for excluding things like storm water structures that are constructed today that may have Wetland characteristics but are not themselves defined as Wetland but those are those are typically more modern and they're typically well documented to that extent so then the drainage that comes off of the parking area in the storage place is a is a drainage space um and I don't know when that might have first been constructed but I don't think it was in the 1800s so how old does commercial constructed drainage Facility have to be well to to be clear Mr Ryan um simply receiving runoff does not mean that it's not a wetland like there we have a lot of projects that we permit where there is runoff from a developed project to a wetland and even though it is runoff coming off of a let's say a paved surface um that doesn't mean that the receiving Wetland know longer is no longer at Wetland all right I'll I'll stop here thank you I did have have one just comment I mean it's it's possible in 2004 I don't know what type of determination was was made in 2004 um that everybody's relying on if it was somebody like myself using aerial imagery or massgis trying to figure out approximately where the wetlands were it's possible in 2004 that you weren't giving given accurate information lots of times massgis is really just a blunt instrument it points out the obvious but until you actually get boots on the ground you really don't know the limits of the resource areas especially in an area like this that's been worked over that's been altered um clearly has areas that appear to have been mechanically dug there's linear spoils there's it's just you'll see when you get out there it's it's not a PR natural wooded buffer um I just wanted to throw that out there and there are wetlands across the street on a mega way that kind of creep up the hill even further than the wetlands that I flagged so it's possible that you could be in the buffer zone from those Wetlands also Amy have we reviewed past filings here is there anything to indicate what the conditions may have been historically here yeah no I I I have a note to go see what I can dig out and look at some of the old aerial photographs but I believe the area they're talking about is so heavily treed might not be able to see anything anyway um with that um Miss tarlo Lewis Mr Lewis um I'm going to let you speak one more time here to see if there's anything new to add to this um we typically don't let multiple comments but i' I'd like to hear you out here um Amy you want to go ahead I think you should still be able to comment yeah um so the gentleman who built our house was Mark Flanigan he um he no longer lives here he lives in Connecticut but he was a dlan that built our house in the Ryan's house um so I think you know he was pretty familiar with the land since he had been living there for you know a couple of De you know at least two decades at that point um and so yeah I mean this idea that it wasn't done correctly in the beginning I think is just like a a red hair like Mark lived here he walked here he hunted down there like he knew what was going on thank you Mr Lewis do you have an additional comment yeah I would just want to uh rebat whatever the comment you know that came from um the drainage it be very specific here it is drainman drainage into a catchment area it is not into the original Wetlands it is clearly and I know it's hard to see because there's a lot of history down there I'm very curious about it but it's very clearly a man-made catchment area you can see it and on our original house plans we actually we could see that drawn so the town does have drawings of that catchment area and it it is recent okay and it it may I have no idea why it was done but my guessing is it was done to make the lots of myself and the Ryan buildable understood and and to be clear here Mr Lewis we what we are going to look towards are historic Wetland delineations associated with this property not necessarily just um uh Builder grade drawings that show General um wet areas or something like that but I think these were Town drawings understood not all not all Town drawings actually include wetland delineations but we will get to the bottom of that to understand what was there to the extent that they are Wetland delineations I think that could help us resolve some of this but we we're just going to speculate on it until we can look at it and and just also there are additional CTS under Omega way it's not just that one stream that allows water to pass uh from one side of Omega way to the other okay very good thank you um we will take these public consider uh comments into consideration I think Amy's got a little bit of homework to do I think along those lines we would also uh Greg like to set up a s sidewalk with yeah with you um and I will reach out to the owners and I'll let Amy know what they tell me about the public being welcome and I'll also relay to them that there's some uh there's been some observed trash debris tell their plows to be careful everything that was mentioned tonight I'll put them on alert that the abuts aren't happy um and along those lines Greg to the extent that there's information that the public has given you today I'd like to to understand that feedback and to make sure you've at least considered it in your analysis but I'd like you to think about the the comments and this meeting will be recorded so you can go through and make sure all the the different details are accounted for in your plan if that doesn't change your plan that's okay but I want to know it's been accounted for understood um in terms of setting up a site walk members of the commission you guys want to start to throw some dates out here what what might work for you all long do you think how long do you think it will take surve have been through there cutting down the Roose butes I will also point out that I will be gone uh what is it like the 19th October 4th or something like that okay I I think we very much want you there Amy so yeah what do we think of like next week 16 17 something like that it's the end of the day after five I can I can make that starting to get dark kind of early I work is still work Define define give me a time that can work for you and let's work off of that for me yeah anything after five anything after five okay would uh Tuesday the oh wait sorry I take that back um would Wednesday the 18th at 5:15 work for anybody I do think it's probably going to get a little too dark too quick but um you said Wednesday yeah um I'll be hopefully in Maine if the balloon company cancels I can make it but yeah I can't do the 18th either and I can't do the 16th or 17th okay after you know off 19 Amy's gonna be out of town just 19th is when you're leaving yeah sorry uh what do we think of this week the 12th Thursday the 12th I cannot do Thursday okay um Friday teaching a wetland class from ACC and Acton on Friday Thursday yeah what about Friday the 13 I can't do Freddy okay probably just as well being being the 13th at all I could do the weekend but I don't know if anyone's interested in that I could certainly do Saturday morning or something yeah I can probably I can do that too I I cannot make the weekend but you got if you have enough just go for it Greg it would this Saturday morning give you sufficient time to discuss with your client the possibility of allowing members of the public to join us so unfortunately Saturday morning does not work for me okay we're running out of days here um you could you could just move into October after Amy gets back yeah what days are you when do you come back Amy I'll be back uh Monday October 7th middle of the day out of the opt question too for folks or you're only talking after five o'clock I can probably go that point because it is getting dark closer to 4:00 I can't do Mondays the 7th but I you know most of the rest of the week looks open it's looking like end of the days though I I really don't want to let this go all the way to Mid October no um and it looks like evenings are generally not going to work so let let's try this then could we do the middle of the day on Monday the 16th or Monday the 17th or I'm sorry Tuesday the 17th at let's say 1 p.m. Ed I realize that's a difficulty for you let's see if we can get other y 1 p.m. on the 16th or 17th both those work for me me too I I I could probably make that work Chase yeah yeah yeah I can make middle of the day work Amy you're kind of the star of the show here from our perspective uh Monday I could do we're talking one o'clock uh Tuesday would be a little tough um and Wednesday I I do Monday and Wednesday pretty easily then let's set it from Monday the 16th at 1 p.m. perfect the best spot to meet would be right behind the the large building um I've got a black truck I'll get there a little early and I'll I'll reach out to the owners tomorrow and I'll let Amy know what I find out okay appreciate it and your flags are all pretty fresh so they should still be up there they should be but I'll get out there before Monday just to make sure they are thank you um Amy I think it might be helpful too if um you're able to reach out to some of the folks who have commented I think we've got some emails from folks it may be helpful for us understanding that the the applicant may not be able to but to to be able to go on their property and take a look would you mind to Circle back up with them just to see if we could potentially understand sort of how their properties fit together with this what I I have the Lewis's email actually um but I don't have Mr how Mr Ryan so maybe if they could just send me an email then I'll know who is interested in tracking the site walk piece of it and and that all depends on the owner of the property allowing which Greg you are G to find out right I guess yeah where did you say to pocket just go into the regular parket lot where they store the boats and stuff yeah right behind the building at 550 new town you can drive right around back ah okay never been to the back of the building okay I think we have to move on we've um I think well overstate our welcome on this so uh 16th at 1M we'll plan on doing that and there's some follow-up items very good do I have to request a continuance or uh I would like you to request a continuance I'd like to request to continuent to uh the next next meeting please September 24th thank you actually um Greg understanding that Amy will be out for that I would be interested we'll leave it right now for the 24th but I'd be interested in your client's willingness to push it to the subsequent meeting you you you have a right to ask for the next one but it would be better I'm gonna say they don't have a problem with that thank you so that would be next one is October one though um October 8th oh October 8th okay October 8th it is thank you Greg very good um could we please let Sarah back in so she can run the rest of the show thank you everyone have a good night thank have a great night think we might need to elevate there we go there's oh that was long okay I see we're just flying right along yep okay it's 8:48 let's go ahead and we have a continued discussion which was posted for 8:00 enforcement order 15 Powers Road any me update on that uh Mr McAn is here on phone um so he should be able to talk and he did just send over a plan which I'm having a hard time sharing um okay do let's move him over first he's he's just on a a phone so I can't move him over he can't talk he's got no video okay is he's muted there we go hello yep so if you would like to welcome um sorry for the delay if you'd like to introduce yourself to the commission with your name and address that would be greatly appreciated okay uh John McAn 15 Powers Road okay thank you for joining us John um John Amy just said that you had sent in a plan or something that she's trying to share with us I will have to say that we do as a point of order ask that everything be submitted the Thursday prior to the meetings on Tuesday so that we can review them and digest them but I believe she's trying tost now while we're waiting um John would you please like to tell us ahead of time what we're going to see um okay shows kind of just a a depiction of the backyard and I'd like to just finish the backyard that uh you guys I was called the parking lot I'd like to just finish it with grass so it's clearly not a parking lot um and at the bottom of the slope I'd like I figured as a remediation plan putting uh some berry bushes I I figured 20 would be a good number I'd be will to do them all around the bottom of the slope um starting near the base of the driveway around the back um I figured I could work with the commission depending on what size and what uh variety of berry they were looking for or if there was a few different ones I'd be happy to oblig with that um that okay is is there a commissioner that would like to do from their memory an update or Amy if you could do that based on our last conversation what the um kind of order of go was for 15 Powers what the expectations for this meeting well as as I call the main issue was and again um assuming North is up here which isn't quite right uh pow road is is down to the South off the off the thing so um and this this is the bush where you kind of see where the driveway hit originally ended so it looks like Johnny talking about restoring this area around here but leaving the width of the driveway yeah I I mean I kind of thought that from what I did to get it back to its natural state would kind of make it a bigger mess than what has been um and I figured after I walk through and talking before leaving the top of the slope the way it is I'd like to just Gras it if you want me to put some bushes up on the top of the slope I'd be willing to do that um and not do any more work like I said I didn't realize I was in The Bu Zone I as we just saw in the walkr I didn't do any work in the wetlands but I'd like to just leave it as it is maybe if we put some bushes in if that's what you guys are looking for uh I didn't really have a good idea of exactly what you guys were looking for you just wanted a my plan so that's what I have to offer Commissioners questions um so originally there were supposed to be a septic replace and I I don't recall seeing that permit or that plan if the wetlands was noted on that septic system that was supposed to be put in and Amy I don't know obviously it's been a couple weeks if you have the Aerials to kind of show the before and after yeah I'm trying to see what I can pull up quickly here um and I will say the RDA for the um septic system has expired right my my question on that was were any Wetlands noted on that yes okay and we saw I think we saw one of the flags out there when we did the S sidewalk I can't quite remember but um I think we agreed that it was pretty good and I think that's even in our minutes that I have agreed that that RDA delineation was appropriate so the so the homeowner was aware of the wetlands because we were first told that that septic system was going to be installed which was not installed I bought the house after plans were drawn up I bought the house and told that it had a failed Title 5 I had it pumped I the plan was supplied when I bought the house through civil and I have not installed the septic yet the plan expired which I was not aware of until now actually or the permit had expired okay commenting on the restoration plan so one thing that I like about it is the the boulder delineation uh I will leave it to others who are more well-versed in the sort of plant elements of it but I do like that element one piece that is not clear to me is what the removal of debris that came to be located in the buffer zone are we are we still talking about taking that equipment and debris out of the buffer zone I guess that's something I thought we would talk about tonight as part of the remediation plan if it's something I you want me to put clean dirt over um or approv dirt over um and feed or if it's something you want me to take that out and put clean dirt toed I'd be happy with either one of those I know I didn't note it on the plan but we had also talked about a credit for the plantings in the front yard which would be a couple pear trees and just some flowers but I know that's not on the plan it's just something we had talked about if this picture here is what you're talking about um you're never going to be able dirt and seed with all those Boulders there all those rocks there can someone help me with a a photograph for Kyle or Amy were on site um is this area still going to be a driveway or is this totally going to be restored so we won't be about end of the original driveway say that again John the drive driveway would stop at the end of the original driveway the back of the house just in front of that bush right where I'm standing right where John and I Mike are standing so from me back get get seated about where does thisnow go in the resource area I'm sorry s say that again yeah just just curious um from a winter snow flowing standpoint where is the snow get pushed or or kind of stockpiled I guess typically the bottom of the driveway I wouldn't even say typically because I don't own a snow pile and I don't have somebody's snow pile I usually park my car at the top of the hill because getting out of my driveway is not fun most of the year as you guys saw it's a pretty steep entrance and exit and people like to treat poers Road like it's the Daytona way if I may ask the driveway is going to stop where the folks are standing in this picture but how about the width is the current width the same width as it was before I can't see the picture that you're seeing but uh it was the old driveway went probably 3 feet shy of where the I have it currently but it had been collapsed and was falling out so I kind of just leveled it off no no no my my question the town milled my road and paved it they just dumped one load of millings no my my question John is the the width of the driveway early on I thought I heard you say that you'd like to keep the width the same as it is now which in my mind suggested that it was not that wide when you started meaning how how much of any of it is in the in the in the buffer or in the zone outside of the buffer zone I or the 50 Foot buffer zone I think that I was more under the impression that the concern was behind that bush and the work in the backyard the the yellow there is about the original driveway um I can't find the uh the Aerials and the plans that show the measurements from the house to the end of the driveway but that yellow line is about where it was all right and about where is the 50 Foot um it's in there it's it's it's in there I think it was the I think the bush is in the 50 it around okay here's the challenge I think Commissioners are having is that we don't have a plan that is anything to scale so we don't know where the wetlands is we don't know where specifically Phil was brought in how much Phil was brought in so historically under enforcement orders there's acts to try to have things a little bit more specific so I think without having a s sidewalk and having things staked out and having a mediation like plan so you have your sequencing as well and to see where the the um bushes and plantings are going to go I I just find it difficult to look at pictures and a handdrawn plan while I appreciate the plantings it's I don't know that it's to scale I guess it may not necessarily be 100% a scale it's more of just a my plan of remediation I but I mean I started off by saying I from the get I didn't realize that I I knew I couldn't go in wetlands and it's established that I didn't work in Wetlands I just didn't realize the buffer zone so I'm again trying to remediate this there's no equipment or anything I'm willing to do like hand planting all these bushes down at the bottom of the slope I'm willing to talk and work with the commission on how the spacing the size what they're looking for um and the boulder wall is already there there's a few more rocks that need to be placed to finish that um but for the most part the aerial photo won't may may or may not show it but most of the backyard is already grass it's just that area behind that bush that's not Commissioners what would you like to do from my perspective I need something more in line with what we've been getting from others showing where the buffers are 15 100 what you're planning to put where you're planning to put it and how much of what's in the buffer is going to be cleaned up terms of cleaned up or removed or what what are you thinking well cleaned up meaning uh you know removed and and and remediated that there's uh debris that you know we're looking to have taken out and dirt and put in or whatever the case might be but I'm having a hard time and I know the area but I'm having a hard time understanding how much of this you know like the driveway for example how how much of the width is where it shouldn't be that kind of stuff I think the planting picture is is helpful but without knowing where all the rest of the stuff is it's kind of a challenge so Kyle I keep deferring back to you because you you've been on site what are what are your thoughts I mean I I definitely agree that it would be nice to see some delineations of where the 1500 is I don't know if it changes what our end goal and result here is it's it's all within the 100 foot buffer it needs to get cleaned up yeah I agree with that that you know this isn't what we're used to seeing for a remediation point so we need to either get that or try to move on and say get get it done because I we're going back and forth having the same conversations each week here um winter soon it's going to be pushed into next year and I'm I would be happy to work with the commission outside of these Tuesday meetings to try and work on our own remediation plan going off this going off something else I'd like to again reiterate like I did to the commission when they were here I'm a single father of two kids I grew up in town I live in town I did not realize what I was doing was this I guess big of a deal but I understand and I'm trying to work with them on remediating this it's just getting an engineer in here to shoot a toppo it is out of my wheelhouse like today I'm not sure how booked out they are I could reach out it just seems like a stretch because like Kyle said it's we still have the same end goal if if we could like I like we did a walkth through I believe Amy marked out where she believed the wetlands was I'd be happy to tape off that or if someone wanted to come out one day at a reasonable time I'd be happy to show where the 50 or 100 feet markers are in terms of where the wetlands are are the wetlands not located on the now expired um septic system plan that was where I was going to ask S if there's an RDA plan somewhere right and they are shown on that we had that discussion that they're shown on that but I couldn't find it where John do you happen to have a copy of the the plan that had septic on it because you you mentioned yeah there you go I think so you see the the Wetland flags were originally surveyed back there and and those seem reasonable and this this showed what the original you know driveway location is there's the bush in there so John this is this is like the best working document that you could use because you can pull everything off the corner of the house and have your shrubs so you could overlay on that where you want to put your plantings and where the borders are so to use this and then use it to scale and this has the 50 Foot it just it Nicks the end of the existing driveway right and goes John and I recognize you can't see this but I I feel comfortable with this I don't know about the rest of the Commissioners yeah I agree I think he takes what he's already prepared and he puts that onto this hopefully that helps everybody else feel a more comfortable that sounds good so is this something we could continue to next week and I could reach out to Amy or the commission and get a copy of the what you guys are seeing so we're all on the same page yep we can asked this document to be emailed to you tomorrow um with the understanding that for the next meeting you'd already have this back to us in a lot of time to give you you know if there's a comment or something missing so that the goal would be at the next hearing you would really have given us your sequential order of what you're going to do um and I would highly encourage setting up a s sidewalk I don't know if there's erosion control that's needed I've not been on site so here again I defer to others that have been on site I mean I guess it really depends on what everything that we're looking for and do most of it's more stabilization than anything so really shouldn't require R control I don't see a lot of earth work in this okay but I I will say I think that if like any removal of De quote unquote debris is uh going to happen then I could put some silt fence or like hay or corner at the bottom of that slope that's that's where I would see it needed if anywhere hear you're pulling out concrete and whatnot so I'm I'm curious if it's convenient because I know there's a s sidewalk that you all had planned for earlier for the 16th at 1 p.m. John I know that you work but it might be helpful to see if you can meet Commissioners or allow Commissioners to go on to get a better visual put Stakes out potentially over the weekend where the plantings are going to be so that we can keep this ball rolling I the 16th at one single dad two kids they both go to school in town I I can't do Amy Sarah this is a pretty straightforward site when you get out there and you're standing at the top of this slope and then you're standing at the bottom of it it's so you know if we saying yep 20 blueberry bushes at the toe of the slope you're GNA go out there and know exactly where they're going right so all I'm asking is that he go ahead and put some stakes in where they're going to go and to walk off and then walk off from the corner that you'd be able to have your footage um based on the the wetlands that's presented on this map yeah and does the commission want to see on on this plan where the extent of the the sort of new new driveway is is yes and what is supposed to be taken out or restored right yes is in this picture the driveway is only clipped by the 50 Foot but in the other picture the current it feels like that driveways a lot wider right but with this they can take it off the they can use the monument from the building okay yeah Commissioners other comments or suggestions for John doesn't sound like we're going out on site so I I guess the only thing I would just point out is um it doesn't seem like that spot where the bushes are being proposed to go is uh is going to be uh viable and I I don't know how much sunlight it gets but it it seems like it would be a difficult spot so just something to keep in mind Kyle you were there do you yeah no I I agree I have to take a closer look at that but it is there's sign significant free coverage down past the tow of that slope so yeah's going to travel if it's something you you'd rather see on the top of the slope i' I'd be willing to do that too um I mean down at the bottom of the slope it's all green so I don't necessarily want to say they wouldn't grow there is growth down there there's some dead trees but yeah and I'm not saying it won't either it it just something that occurred to me no and I definitely understand especially on the driveway side there is there is that I didn't even think about it and you're probably right and I'd be willing to do like again I can talk to the conservation about it I'd be willing to do some up on the top further in the back uh plant something different that may take there um willing to work with conservation I think the Commissioners are willing to work with you but as I know personally stated earlier that it's hard to put everything in perspective when you're looking at photos so without a sidewalk or allowing you know two Commissioners to go at the same time or something it's it's a challenge okay well we already did yeah anybody have any other questions um so presumably this be continued to September 24th when would you want the plan by by that Thursday the 19th yep okay okay would you like for us to continue you to the next meeting is it enforcement order it's you do what you right well we have stopped the tickets so I would hope that he would want to be at the next meeting I'm the one who suggested it right yep September 24th cool yep okay thank you and um Amy will send you that Amy or t Tim will send you that plan tomorrow thank you guys okay thank you all right so it's now 9:15 we're going to do the 8:15 public meeting request for determination of applicability lakes Shore Drive um do you want to skip that and do the ifp switch as much because I don't have lore Drive lined up to share with you right now are we going to discuss it or are we going to push it no no no no just discuss it yes but I don't know if you wanted to let Mr Gallagher free no I'd rather stay in order order yeah all right let me see if I can so give me a second so it's basically Japanese not weed treatment which has a bylaw waiver required hey look at this yes I think can you see that now y yes all right so this this is um a patch of Japanese na a fairly decent slid patch of Japanese not we along here um on Lakeshore Drive um that is the highway is mowing it but it's doing absolutely nothing to it and it's just growing um and given where it is I think it's a good time to try to get rid of it um it's at the on Lake Shore at the M Elm if any of you know the area there's the patch right there and it's a pretty healthy patch along there so um we already have in the budget and Oxo has put in a proposal um to treat this uh we backpack sprayers um right along the edge there and uh probably take more than one year to to knock this out but um I think it's doubled since we started looking at this and it's it's time to try to get under control no work in the Wetland but we will be immediately adjacent to the Wetland Amy talk to me a little bit about the herbicides that they'll be using and like I'm I'm very comfortable with herbicides when they're applied where they're supposed to be but we're right next to the water body here do we have any concerns about the herbicides they're using actually getting directly into the water versus on land um this is a very contained sprayer backpack sprayer with um I can't remember the name of the nozzle that they put on it so it is very targeted they cannot do it when rain is in the immediate forecast or when the wind's over something like four miles an hour um and and it's it's it's sticky if you will um so I certainly can't guarantee it won't float bit but it's designed to stay in place uh this is what we the glyphosate is what we're using up at the other end um at Browns Woods in the um uh the frag mighties up there which is in the Wetland itself so this is what this is specifically use is for aquatic this one won't be in the Wetland but it'll be immediately adjacent to it can we um the Japanese nwe is all standing right now right or it's yes could we keep up at least until the very end a screen between the area they're treating and the lake right like the last thing to come down is the last couple feet of material I just want to make sure we're not overspraying and putting it right into the water body if we can at all avoid it no we we can definitely do that matter of fact I think um Scott would probably appreciate cutting it back a little bit cutting back how much he's treating a little bit um because it's it's going to be more than one year uh okay not saying we shouldn't treat what's right on the edge I just I'd like to leave that as a sort of a a wind barrier first right yeah you made it sound like we were going to leave somewhere that I think that's what Amy thought is but we're still taking it all out right that's the doesn't do us any good to not treat as much as we can so Chase are you saying don't treat that last foot or two until maybe next year or just leave that to the last this season later in the day like atend of the day like at the end of the day right we work from Road in we leave the we leave essentially a stand of between the water body and everything else that's being treated until we absolutely have to as a as a screen to catch any overspray until we get to the very edge yeah no that that makes sense what what is the timing of this I'm curious if it's better to do it when other leaves are foliated or you do it when you know the grass is stagnant around it or is there anything else OB we wouldn't do it in the winter time but are there other conditions that we should think of this is the prime time of year for getting it you want to do it when it started to tassel when when flowering and then it's actually starting to pull things back down into the roots so this is the perfect timing here to do it okay so what would okay so this does require a bylaw as well okay yes Commissioners questions or comments or how you'd like to go forward sounds like a great project let's get rid of that knotweed oh God one stalk at a time second I'm sorry did someone make a motion I didn't cat so Andrew do you want to make a motion because you do have to comment that a bylaw waiver is required sure I'll make a motion that the commission issue a negative would this be a three or a two determination it'll be a three it it's not in the Wetland okay so negative3 determination for the Japanese na weed removal along Lakeshore Drive with Associated waiver and I will put leave sort of a protective screening till the end okay thank you all right roll call votes uh Michael Michael Livingston I Kyle Maxfield I Sarah Sarah Seward I chase chase ker I Ed Ed F Carl Carl I myself I it's unanimous Amy you're gonna move Mr Gallagher over he is coming in okay we're now going to follow up on update for enforcement order zero I switch known as u5- 16-0 Mr Gallagher when you're on if you could identify yourself that would be appreciated I'm trying to pull things up so I can't see if he's having trouble getting in y okay Mr Gallagher you're here not hear are you yep you're not showing as muted you might just have your your microphone turned down yeah I can't do anything for my y I believe Mr Gallagher I believe it's on your end not on our end because it doesn't show that you're muted Mr Gallagher we're happy to kind of keep you on we're just going to go and do a couple little discussion items see if maybe logging out or logging back in or or such might help if that's okay okay great thank you let's go ahead and go to um some of our discussion items um the neog is going to take a little time so I'm going to just try and do some of the little ones first um mosquito spraying um everyone saw with the triaa threat the beginning of Spring uh yes yesterday last night and we did receive a letter from a towns person which was circulated I think Amy you circulated that just concern so didn't um offer just an opportunity if anybody has any comments or concerns with that should we have concerns I guess is the simple question it well it's not though because I read the letter and and U taking the letter at face value uh because I haven't done my own research about the herbicides and so forth the pesticides or whatever it is being used um if we are killing dragonflies and other Wildlife to get rid of the mosquitoes then I think we are doing a disservice to the environment um you know I I kind of go along with there was a comment somewhere along the way tonight about um the the pesticides that we're using and stuff so I I am uncertain that we're not using a sledgehammer to swat a fleet right that was that was my point it's like we don't know right nobody's told us we don't have enough information I think if do we need to be concerned I don't think we've been fully I don't think us as a commission can offer too much inut on that right now I do think that during previous Springs whether it's through mosquito control or whomever they're homeowners have seen you know tragedies within their honeybee hives and such so and they have you know obviously can call uh mosquito control and tell them not to spray their their house but so there has been some historic evidence that there there are impacts and and it's not just I mean just because you have a hive there are also bees in the wild for sure it really bothered me that you know it dry it doesn't hurt them but you know as was noted in the rain and the Dew I don't feel like we're getting enough information about the safety of to us and to the wildlife of what's being sprayed or or targeted areas just kind of a free for free-for-all or targeted areas yeah it was very reactive response it's not been a problem for us in the past because typically they're more you know in other wetter areas and it's always been you know Five Towns 10 times Towns over the fact that we've got someone with e in Acton and and I think there was actually a Littleton person maybe as well it feels like all of a sudden we're like oh my God it's it's here let's go and we probably have no no authority to say anything about anything except may as it relates to our properties but this just um scares I'm not sure we have authority on our property right isn't this a exempt it's an exempt measure right no I think you can my not my knowledge is that you can exempt out out of it regulating right so I will I will point out this is what they do all not all sum long but this is what they spray during the year during the summer it's already being sprayed this is just you know an emergency has been declared so this is the response to that so I think if you if we want to have you know thoughtful discussion of that we can put it on so that we can see what other um communities are doing other groups other environmental groups to see if you want to have a a letter of inquiry or letter of support or disinterest of that so um I guess we just have to know if it's something that we want to have a a further kind of deeper dive discussion that we can set aside some time for it probably makes sense I think we're we're bound to receive more than one letter asking for some guidance or input okay recommendations well I I will also say you know our next meeting is the 28th and hopefully there is a frost before them right soly it becomes a moot issue anyway right right for for this year but right right it's not going away right exactly so I think Amy maybe put a placeholder on for two meetings from now in in October and then that might give us some time also to do a little research of what other communities May perhaps not even in the Commonwealth we know Triple E is in other other states as well you don't want to talk about the 28th 28th whatever the second meeting is not September the October one so that's October 8th 8th y okay um Mr Gallagher can we hear you I think so nice welcome back well I my my laptop seems to have failed me okay well you're here so we would um welcome an update on zero IP switch sure so um on Foss we completed uh the mitigation and we checked in the spring and in the summer um the owners are doing a very good job of maintaining and taking care of it it's all grown in across the street we haven't done anything as we had spoken about um I believe the you were going to be going out there I thought maybe last night or tonight to look at um if whichwich the um the growth is has been really strong um all of the plants lower growing plants seem to be thriving and coming back well um we're at your discretion as to what you would like us to do at this point I know I talked to Sue Carter about it she took a look at it and thought you know depending on where we wanted to enter or do any work to be careful that we didn't do more damage than we did uh replica or restoration um so we're at at your discretion however you'd like to proceed because it's been a while since um we've had this discussion perhaps someone could update the commission on um the volume and diameter of the trees that were removed H uh I don't have that I know is mature I'm guessing if I recall Maples and white Pine probably one white pine and there were four or five Maples that were down um inside the 75 I think it was even inside possibly the 50 um outside of that I don't believe there were a lot of mature trees that were removed there was a lot of uh Vines and non indigenous um plants that were removed um we did we did a Ser a study for you and I don't have I don't have that available either it's up on the screen with a tree survey yeah we did a tree survey right these are all the trees that removed on here yep it's like I don't know 20 sounds Commissioners what what are your thoughts on that um is there I guess going forward is there any future thought of what is going to happen to this land are we going to plant trees and then in a year someone's going to come back and say we'd like to try and do something else on this property I know it has a lot of limitations well that was that was where this plan you're seeing now came from was they were going to do this Restoration in the zero to 50 foot um uh um right this was supposed to be back in in last year and then they're going to check and see if they could get a house and then come in no later than July 20 2024 with either the restoration Andor a house in the 50 the 100 foot we we have not gone back to disturb the property at all um we initially had we did perks and depole tests and um we had one fail and uh two passes and obviously the Deep test holes showed a very high water table um and when we made the mistake or I should say our tree cutter made the mistake of over cutting the area we haven't even considered going back quite honestly um because we wanted to try to let as much of nature restore as much of the area as possible um the the site is extremely tight somebody could and I mean obviously with all the pressure on housing somebody could put a house there somebody could put a septic system in there um but it would be a difficult chore uh you know given where the the um natural resources are uh on that specific piece of property and they're growing not not shrinking in size yes so I was going to ask you that Amy your your sentence there says that a wetland delimination wind Wetland delineation may need to be adjusted is that to increase the size of the area yeah the the cat there are cattails popping up and I did not spend a lot of time to investigate it um you see them back in here yeah yeah Amy can you keep that picture up for a second I'm I want you all to hear me out here and not call me crazy until I finish this looks to me like a perfect opportunity and I know we don't have the structure yet but a perfect opportunity for a payment and loot I mean I look at this and I wonder there there's a lot of ecological value in that Meto at this point and if we had replanted the trees right after they were cut that's one thing but now I I what I don't want to do is create the moral hazard to like hey you cut trees and look at that you got away with it you know but at the same time I'm I'm reticent to go back in there and replant trees now is especially if we could come up with a acceptable alternative that achieved meaningful sort of reparations for that damage without necessarily red disturbing that Meadow which is sort of an interesting habitat immediately adjacent to the existing forestry so I I don't know I want to put that on the table as an option like do do we have to replant here or could we potentially replant somewhere else or find another way of compensating the town for the Lost ecological value of those trees I I think so I while I appreciate that I would at minimum want to split the difference you can go in and someone can plant by by hand some um some trees that might help with that coverage um but with that I would also want to know that you know two years five years 10 years someone's going to come in and then try and build a house there so I would either like to know that this is buildable or not buildable because if it's not buildable I would follow the path of let kind of natured with some assistance go forward but if that if it is going to be buildable I would say go ahead and put all the plants back in so I mean building on what Chase was saying though we now have a new ecosystem with animals and insects and so forth using that ecosystem you know it was horrible what was done but right now we've got a pretty cool little space here so you know but potentially if it's going to be built on that cool little space is not going to exist anymore yeah that's versus if you have a tree that can also start you're going to have to work around those trees as well so it's it's a that's a fair point hard concept so for from a de development standpoint Madam chair um go ahead this property is not going to be developed you can't say you said housing and all well he can donate it though it's financially not feasible for the small triangle that you saw I mean we looked at this pretty hard um if you look at the drawing that Sue did the the area for the septic would almost have to be on the road um the maximum I think size was a one bedroom and it was going to be a tetiny you know like 300 foot shed that we could fit on there it's it's not financially feasible to put in that kind of a septic system and and to to build a house on it otherwise we would have pursued it you know more um it's it's just the wetlands are are growing in size it's pinching the L more as Amy had said um you know not only cat Ninetails but there is other um growth in there and and and and that lower Wetland area is expanding the amount of water that's being held in there um and on the adjacent parcel and the water coming off the hill it it makes it the septic system I think we calculated would be six to eight feet out of the ground it's it's not it's not going to be something that's feasible so Chase there is your balance is there an opportunity for something like a donation of the land to conservation in lie of all the expenditures of what the restoration true restoration and years of monitoring would entail I don't own the land just to be very Mark yeah I was gonna say I don't own the land there a woman in California that owns the property um we had an agreement to purchase it and we could go in and do testing and the like uh um we don't own the property and I I I don't know if she owns a contiguous parcel or not I I I don't remember because it's a couple of years ago now but um I I don't I just don't see the property being developed it's is a a big Wetland and it's it's a lot of um Wetland plants that are now migrating even further onto the upper side of the property I I just don't think it's feasible but without absolute certainty we we have to go on in my mind we have to go on the assumption that at some point someone will put or attempt to put a house here and um well I I understand but if we if we go on the assumption that it's not feasible and then you know five 10 years down the road the town says well we can put a a single family elderly housing unit here um you know until the town gets sore so I I think where we're at though is we're at the point where we're we can't kick this down the this can down the road anymore we need to come up with a restoration plan I I I would say that if the applicant is not able to come forward with let's say applicant maybe it's a strong word in an enforcement order context um is not able to come forward with an alternative to replanting the trees we probably do need to require the trees to be replanted what I'm saying is I I would be willing to consider a resolution of this that doesn't necessarily involve direct tree replanting on the property but I think and Mr Gallagher I know that the it's always frustrating when the commission does this but I'm I I think we would be I would be interested in understanding what you might be able to come up with in terms of creative alternative solutions to to restoring the resource areas here and that that's just me don't take that as the whole commission but I I'm willing to consider alternatives here and if you can't come up with an alternative that makes sense then we should go forward with replanting no doubt about it right but we've all just discussed that the wetlands has expanded so I think the first starting off point would be to have it ref flagged by a wetland scientist to what end Sarah excuse me yeah to what end what what would that so Mr Gallagher just said that it's expanding Amy's talked about The Cattails so I'm just thinking that further down the line someone wants to come in and say Here's the wetlands line that was stated as of last year I I sounds like that line is already could potentially be obsolete five years from now that line might change even more so if it's changed within a year it's GNA change in another year that isn't it be on them to chase it again whenever it comes back in front of us I don't with the line the adjusted line be helpful or used to know where to put the trees you don't want to go in the Wetland yeah we're not putting them in the Wetland right right but if the wetlands are moving we need to know where not to put them right you can do that on the ground while you're just taking them out I can ask Su to go out there or can ask Bill to go out there and I'm sure their Flags must be where they were you know a year 18 months ago and have them adjust the flags based upon what they now have seen as growth and soil conditions on the ground and then have them put that onto a plan and come back to you I thought we gave you a restoration plan already did we not just for the zero to 50 okay that was the one that supposed to be done last year that's that's this yeah this the the hundred's up here and the 50 is here y so this work yeah I can have F go out um I can call it tomorrow Amy and report back to as their availability and then come back in two weeks um hopefully I can get them out there and just up update the the existing lines can I ask a question of monitoring for the the S success and viability we're looking at 3 years we're able to get water out to that site once there's no water help them grow there's no water the only water we we'd have to pump it out of the Wetland or bring it on site or bring a water truck well no I have a water truck I I okay I'm sorry I wasn't thinking yeah just for a second I wasn't thinking at all I have a water truck I can bring water to the site Commissioners what would you like to do or would anybody like to do a sidewalker just you know go take a look at it yourself if we can't guarantee that there won't be possibility of a house even being attempted to be sandwiched here then I think I'm wor sah is let's put the trace back in Mr Gallagher are you okay with um Commissioners going on the lot to take a peek prior to the next their leure prior to the next hearing yeah I don't think there's any issue with going on the property I'm actually not sure Sarah as a matter of an enforcement order Mr Gallagher gets to decide but that is true oh no you can't just walk on even with an enforcement order that's why we couldn't get under 15 Powers if you want to get on they say no you need you need a warrant so Mr G thank you Mr G not I'm easy okay all right so we will see someone in two weeks and Commissioners if you have an opportunity to go on the site if you don't know where it is just give one of us a call Madam chair do you want me to have the the um Wetland line updated in that period of time what would you like to do are the wetlands Flags still out there y i I would probably if you wish hold off until Commissioners have had an opportunity to go out okay and if you're wait one hearing to see let some of us look at that and if they look like they've they've they need to get chased a little bit more we can yep happy to do so okay thank you we will continue to the next meeting we'll see you in a couple weeks okay thank you thank you enjoy your evening thank you um Amy just quickly Town land inventory kind of like a mechanism to cross check uh yes so there's kind of three levels here um what they what we've already done is we've combined lots that are that are already owned by conservation just to make it easier so for example all those little tiny Lots at what I call Long Lake West um have gone from like I don't know 75 Lots down to maybe four or five so all these little lots have have been put together so that that's been done and that was low hanging fruit um the next piece of it is getting parcels uh that should have gone to concom and and just never did so they're still under the select board um so I had given Kathy Miller a list and I told her where the town meeting vote was and I actually spoke to her today and those she actually can just go ahead and do um without you know it doesn't take a vote Town meetings already had the vote just never made it onto the uh into the gis can you share like an example of what one of those might be Mary Shepard um will I think Williams may have been changed the uh the dot Surplus partial the 5 acre piece of it um actually the frost Wham Parcels right never got actually transferred to yeah exactly so um lwh hanging fruit and pretty easy was one of those Amy increase the percentage of open space in Littleton and then the next piece are would would take more consideration um an examp an example is the uh the Morrison Orchard the piece it's actually on uh what is it the east side of neog hill road that leads up into Yap um that right now is General Municipal and that's what it was purchased for um but that might might be an example something that could just go to Karen cussy of concom it's it's pretty wet I don't think anyone's going to get anything else in there um Town Forest is an example of something that that that you guys do not control and I think that might be appropriate because that can also let hunting occur on there or you know so there's considerations for those other parcels and once we get that all straightened out um and if parks and wreck is going through the water departments going through all the all these Parcels if they want them or not um and then what's left over will basically become potentially um uh part of the the parcel purchase where you know and a butter could buy half a lot or something and excuse me so when I had talked to Amy about this she thought you know it will incur a few more hours but it's a great also opportunity for for Tim to learn some of these I also offered to volunteer to kind of sit in for kind of my own knowledge to know where we are in these process and so um happy to see if there's any other Commissioners that want to just kind of sit in like physically in the conservation and go through kind of some of those those maps and things like that if if Amy we can be helpful at all or feel free to tell us no and you and Tim can just plow through it totally no I think I think definitely because we're at the point now where I might ideas and say I want nothing to do with that lot because it's it's a mess but someone else may see it as a jewel so you know I think it does we're we're down to those kind of lots on there none of if I'm remembering correctly I don't think any of them were particularly large but so I I guess um with the commission's insight for if you and Tim can throw out just a couple working dates or times do it like old school doodle to see if anybody wants to chime in and show up I think Andrew you've expressed interest before um yeah I would definitely be interested at least reviewing kind of iffy Parcels to see if it would be something that we'd be interested in you know keeping in our collection as opposed to letting you know go to tax title um or not tax title Surplus uh property so yeah absolutely right I can focus it around a lunchtime thing if if that may or may not work for people and and see how it goes I you drag Andrew down from the clerk's officer Andrew's got to go real far gotta get his steps in somehow not gonna let him out so okay um and I will say Tim knows a lot of these Parcels he spent a lot of time going through the laundry list of self-help Parcels because they're all the Lots in Long L they're little tiny ones some were some weren't so he he got that all organized so we know which ones came under the grant okay that's great okay um let me jump into I can jump in now or turtl nesting s sidewalk which Turtle nesting Turtle nesting do we have yes so um it's been going back and forth because natural heritage did release the two letters one is it a take letter and then the next day they issued the letter with the the conservation management firm at the CMP um so with that done you could vote on that order of conditions that was the only thing they were waiting for um if they are going to do turtle nesting at a different site or actually any site in the buffer zone that would be a new nose vent um so they are very tely had thrown out November 6 as a possible site walk day to go over to um one of the turtle nesting areas but I don't think they're actually going to be filing a noin tent for a while on it um but if they do it over the winter might be a good time to at least get out and check out the lay of the land I'm not sure if anyone had a chance to read those four pages that were sent to us it's an interesting read not not what I was expecting so no me as well so I I think that however we can get on site I would like to stay involved and if you want to make it a double whammy bet if we go out to to subate to SVT to um Smith property um they can also give you an update on all the invasive treatment stuff they've been doing out there they've they've been doing a lot of management a lot of physical a little bit herbicide um but they've been having some pretty good success out there okay so why I I will Circle back if this makes sense with the wiow Department SVT and see if SVT wants to do a site walk separately so they can get their initial reaction from the water department or just do it all at once and then I can send around again maybe another doodle po poll or something to see okay pick sometimes so we're ear marking November 6th or we're not very light pencil how's that sound a pen okay the water department report spoke to going to another state agency or something um to get some kind of approval I I didn't fully I didn't look up the acronym so I'm not sure what the other it sounded like it was another state law that if you don't pass the the local one you can ask for exception from them did I read it wrong I'm not sure what that is in terms of the endanger species or in terms of turtles okay I I'll read it again I'll do a little more research because um I was a little confused okay um let's let's start so neog Amy when you have a moment can you call up the lower um map parcel of 107 which is our o 2-10-0 so um what I'd like to do tonight is to tell you a little bit about presentation to the select board last night um I was there with Amy um obviously did not ask for any type of Vote or support or anything just letting them know that we were being prudent prudent to let them know that we were going to have discussion tonight um that it is our hope to go ahead to town meeting with a warrant article with the language we'd like to get approved tonight um which had been circulated to you all and that specifically to formally bring it into the care custody control and maintenance of conservation so that way we can really start to manage the lands and the invasives as well I have spent some time out on the out on the property um there is a stone wall that really depicts um great um uh line almost fairly straight line the ston wall right down from the road to the water and that would be hopefully the approximately seven acres perhaps a little bit more of this than seven acres we don't know yet because survey is not in yet um of the 20 so of that we know that the towns people um um voted on November 2nd 2015 with special town meeting article 8 after we had had joint meetings with the um select board and other vested people that we thought it was great to go ahead and move this over to us um we were then ta well actually the board of selectman were tasked to come up with a plan that is um which is confusing called a subdivision so I think some people were nervous thinking that we were carving off for development but it was mandated that you have to carve off so you are subdividing um this parcel um in your records you were given kind of a an outline summary of the neog Hill Farm non-lease parcel so this parcel is not up for lease um the previous tenant did not Farm um down on that most recently um to his when he left in 2019 you may recall Ed an inv invasive species management which to my knowledge was paid by a a lot of money by the Butters and SVT which was successful um the body of water uh below this is the reservoir known as Lake neog which um we no longer use any um herbicides on that property and already since the 2019 invasives are back with Vigor so it does need to be maint maintain AED and specifically mode as well um the before I jump into kind of language the select board was I Amy was there I think was appreciative we then kind of um digressed and went into well how come we don't want the whole parcel and um I mentioned to them with Amy support that we're really not interested in the buildings that are there um and maintenance because we don't have the means to do so they would like to see those preserved um it was reiterated at that meeting by uh Town's person that you know it was the Morrison's really vision and Legacy that they wanted all of this to be preserved and used in agriculture so I feel like we I basically said we would not be opposed to having future discussions on the remaining part of the parcel but our main goal for this town meeting because it seemed fairly straightforward was to put forth language to get on the warrant um for that so what I'd like to do is um tell you what the language um has been presented to us to see if you have conversations and then in the end if we support this or not so if I may I'm just going to read this for public record to see if the town will vote pursuant to General law C uh chapter 40 section 15a to transfer the care custody management and control of a portion of 94 neog Hill Road assessor parcel r02 D 10-0 to the Littleton Conservation Commission for Passive Recreation such portion to be identified on a plan of land at town meeting or um and so this is also what we know is termed as at um lot 107 um my knowledge is that we don't have active Recreation that's why I would support the passive Recreation but that is up for discussion questions on this I know in your packet you have received the summary of this parcel I think that leaving it maybe as passive Recreation would probably be better for for um our purposes I agree that was my immediate comment back to Town Council um and IA did just point out that if we don't say active Recreation you'll never get active Recreation and I said well that's conservation land for you so any discussion other than that point I think it looks great I I I agree I agree well I would like to forly make the motion of the language that I just used um which notes that it would be passive Recreation um we would take that language then to well Town Council has helped draft this so um so that would be my motion for this for the neog non-lease parcel known as assessor parcel R 02-10 d0 second all right roll call vote Michael Michael Livingston I Kyle Kyle m i Sarah Sarah Steward I chase CH G guy Ed Ed F Carl melberg I myself I it's unanimous thank you very much um what I'd like to do um with your permission is to send this language that we've just voted on to um the conservation trust to see if they would like write a letter of support for us to go as not that they have to be a co-sponsor but just that they acknowledge this um I don't know that the a commission is meeting because obviously all the farmers are very busy but if there's anyone else that you think you'd like to have support this just let us know and we can ask them but certainly U the conservation trust sounds great okay and then I have one other while we're discussing this quick Sarah they're meeting they're meeting Thursday I believe so yeah get it in quick yeah y they I have kind of pre told about it but we were just waiting on the language gotta okay send to tomorrow thank you I would like to have a formal vote to appropriate funding for Ross and Associates for the um for the surveying so I'd like to make a motion that we can appropriate um funding I believe Amy up to $2,000 for the survey of this lot for Ross and Associates yes correct second yeah they're they're preparing the anr plan that'll go to town meeting okay so we have have a second roll call vote Michael Michael Livingston I Kyle Kyle mat I chase chase k i Sarah Sarah Seward I Carl Ed Ed F and myself I it's unanimous thank you if anyone wants to double check my your notes as well I think we got to all the discussion items in there oh yeah Amy go ahead yep please oh and your project lay is on yeah we'll come back to that okay um first of all Amber I know I just realized that there's a whole bunch of text in the Q&A button and I don't know if that gets saved or I just ignore it or what I do with that but uh I wasn't sure what to do with those I haven't seen those before um so just a quick rundown are you the only one that can see those no I can see him I it was on the bottom there's like five it from the New Town Road conversation she vocalized most of most of them when she spoke yeah I just noticed it so but I don't think they count towards anything because they haven't been read so all right so um quick rundown Cloverdale Ada Trail I believe is gonna start in the next week or two yay awesome um and aggregate is donating gravel and catado is donating a rose controls Highway will be doing the work and of course all the boardwalk stuff by everybody else uh just FYI the tree Hunt is ready to get going again um and you had voted last year to approve that through 2026 so they're not going to come back for the land use um yesterday we had like five or six people out at Browns Woods to tackle the burning bush and use some of the um the herbicide it was just the cut and dab stuff uh got a tremendous amount done is that what's laying along the side of the road right now that's what's laying on the side of the road so now I gotta see if I get someone to pick it up um Eagle Scout oh uh I meant to look this up and I forgot to but the Eagle Scout court of honor for Jonathan Beltrami and lonus nean been invited to Sunday September 22nd at noon I don't know if anybody wanted to go I I wasn't planning on it but just just to let you know you know and long L docks nope that's all I had anything else want me to talk any faster do do you make it a point does somebody make it a point to go to those I mean it's not like they're expecting us they like gonna call you out in the crowd or like I no I think I think Carl maybe you went to one like years ago somebody went to one year years ago I I went to one um Judy Reid's son um who did all the the Town Forest but yeah I they don't call you up you can go up and say something when they have the whole you know it might might beesly enough I may be at that one because my son just joined that boy scout troop so well then there you go perfect per all right it's covered great happy to do double duty then all right thank you excellent anyone have anything else and so we could just do a reminder for that s sidewalk that would be great um okay people go see uh the gger property yes not g property on their own correct do we have a motion to adjourn at 10:04 so moved all right roll call vote Michael Michael Livingston I Kyle Kyle Maxi I Sarah Sarah Seward I chase chase G gu Ed Carl