##VIDEO ID:wXbnIP-6bNQ## um good evening and welcome to Lion Conservation Commission meeting virtually it's September 24 um 2024 so we're going to go ahead and start with approval of minutes and so Tim I will say up front I do have some edits but I'd like to kind of go through and give them to you now versus submitting them because I'd like to have them approved if I can so um I'm going to go ahead and take the liberty of going first on page two just some grammatical Matt kahel also met with Town Council who will be going at the g at the end of that then further down and chase this pertains to you a little bit um it says that you proposed in parenthesis payment in lie of close quote framework where compensation for the tree removed is calculated by the cumulative diameter of the trees removed as opposed to the number of trees removed I'd like to add in when it says compensation for the trees removed is calculated by the cumulative diameter of the trees and species removed as opposed to the number are you are you okay with that yep that's consistent with the discussion okay further down under um 555 New Town um Mr Ryan raised asked questions so grammatically Ryan if you could just go back and can figure out what um Tim if you could figure that out that would be great next page um public meeting request for determination Lakeshore Drive so it says due to the proximity of the knotweed to the wetlands treatment will be done when rain is in the forecast or when wind is over for we need to add in the word that rain is not in the forecast or when wind is not over over four miles per hour I think I meant to say when rain or treatment won't be done when rain is in the forecast so either way but we have to just make sure it's that way um next one down enforcement order is zero nip U I switch Mr Gallagher was present and then says the area has naturally vegetated what I would like to add is Mr Gallagher was present he stated the area has begun to naturally vegetate okay one that I would add next page Taylor Street um well um natural heritage it says issue a they issued with a d and then further down under Eagle Scout um talks about Jonathan and lonus is behind held it's supposed to be being held those are the um edits that I have does anyone have any other edits I think you covered them okay would you like to make a motion sure I'll make a motion that the commission uh approve the September 10th meeting minutes as amended second all right roll call vote uh Sarah Sarah Seward I Carl K guy Chase Chase G guy Michael Michael Livingston I Ed Ed P Kyle Kyle Maxi I and myself I it's unanimous okay great what I'd like to do is ask does anyone have anything they'd like to add to administrative discussions for tonight Tim or anyone do you have anything I would like to add the um letter that we see we received from um Mr George Santos um his letter of support for the Litton water department like to add that as comment and okay let's go ahead and uh I'm going to let Casey in and so we're going to talk about enforcement order on 30 Warren and if you reference your attachments you were sent a mitigation plan for 30 war from foresight engineering Casey you're on um well welcome do you want to walk us through where we are yes so actually if you if you could introduce yourself formerly that would be great I apologize I'm Casey calenberg 44 waren Street okay great and then tell us about the 30 Warren Street okay so where we left off Chuck Karen had given his um Wetland restoration plan um and we were still waiting for Scott Hayes to provide his input uh he had been waiting for some um maps and he he got them and actually he did not get what he wanted so he came out three weeks ago and he spent most of the day um at 31 Street looking at what Scott Hayes does with foresight so he was looking at the water um he looked at Chuck's plan and came up with his his plan too to mitigate any problems from runoff from rain the gutters the street and he he um unfortunately I told him to have this ready last Tuesday so uh we did provide this on Thursday to Tim and Amy but uh his it's hard for me to see what I'm saying while I'm looking at this do me just read what he had to say or how would you like me to go about his words however you'd like to present it however be more more concise okay so if you see the the house do you want to make it so Casey can screen share for that so that he can move his cursor sure than that might be easier for you well I to see everybody again SAR is there a way that I can screen share but he can move the cursor or does he have to screen share Casey do you have that plan on your laptop or no well on an email I have a hard copy in my hand I can just go through you if you go back to that m you had Tim I apologize I can just walk you through yep no worries just just walk us through yeah it's pretty easy Once I if you want to just start your way at the top and work your way down that might be easier abely so Street house Wetlands that area understood sir did you want me to pull up again I lost internet I didn't I missed some stuff that was said so if you can just go ahead and call the mtig mitigation plan back up yeah okay got a map back up there okay so where you see 30 existing dwelling if you look towards the top right yep that little line of that box there's a a rain gutter there and you'll see he he recommends a two foot by 4 foot by two foot deep um basically box of crushed stone so that the it provides velocity reduction when the rain comes off the roof into that area and that's actually lawn right there that's on the um highest elevation of property right there so to reduce any runoff or erosion he recommends that box there and then you'll see where his words are there's a line that goes down to the bottom right corner of the house yes exactly same concept the exact same uh verbiage is what his recommendations are he doesn't want to go into the ground right there uh any deeper than what a box would provide just to slow the um the the flow of water off the roof then if you go to the left where it says deck above patio below just to the left of your cursor now I don't see the cursor just move your cursor to the left it's not moving he's stu oh I'm moving okay right there I see moving yeah so we discovered right there is a 4 inch box already in the ground one thing I noted and I made mention before in the past were a lot of piping that was in the ground already that I had removed PVC pipes um I don't didn't know what anything was there for and I just removed a bunch of broken piping but that looks intact and it was discovered to be under the ground we cleared it away it was underneath the next to the where the waddle is currently and he believes that that um pipe goes straight down where that dash line is toward where it says area equals 690 square feet so he does not want to change that he actually likes that a lot um provides everything that he requires in the fact that the water will um slow down velocity reduction and um it won't cause any current or future erosion or problems with the runoff so those were his big um Insight he agrees with all of Chuck's work that Chuck had done provided earlier and um I'm a little nervous I'm sorry but do you have any questions no that's okay um Commissioners any questions so we have previously gone through Chuck's plan um any questions for foresight's plans so on the other side of the subject from the house that big um 69 square foot fill if I read it right that's all coming out that's right I actually have not up there at the top down on the bottom temp bottom there you go just to the right of your cursor there yes Dan STS I've hired Dan sturs to do to do the work for me and he's going to meet me at 3 waren tomorrow at noon I get out of work a little early and um I'll go over the plan with him and see what he comes up with of course I'll still get with Amy or Tim and get out there with Chuck and Scott to make sure we're on on the same page and we do things properly the only thing I still really need to do is get snow fencing um something to ensure that uh none of U Littleton earthwork equipment goes uh beyond that um FL Stone did can someone remind me about erosion control that was back on Chuck's plan correct when we walked at last time I don't recall there being much need for erosion control itself to do we just gonna do the snow fencing instead yeah yeah okay thank you for that okay okay this picture doesn't show it but I assume because it's not showing what's being done in the backside with the wetlands and everything cleaning that out so they're like two different plans right yes yeah yeah Co and then we did give um Casey permission to kind of clean up that shed area and some of the leave either some of the the down Pines or some of them that take out that dead tree or at least the dangerous tree that was hanging rid of that tree yep it's all still there but I cut it up and and I got rid of um lots of purple loose Stripes already and some honey suckle okay great as prescribed by you I made sure went into a bag and I yeah exactly so um it sounds like the next course of action is for with the commission's blessing of this one is to go ahead meet with um the sses come on board and then meet with your two engineers and then when you're ready to get started to let Tim or Amy know um and one of them is also happy to be at that joint meeting as well um just keep us kind of in the loop with a few days notice Commissioners is that the framework that you'd like to go forward with or something added that's on screen okay Casey is that sound appropriate absolutely okay all right so check back in with us if you could just give um Tim or Amy an update for the October 8th meeting you don't have to be here in person but just um just give us an update okay thank you once again for your time thank you thank you casy next is a request for a certificate of compliance 19 Porter Road Mast EP 204 d103 Tim yeah Amy mentioned she was the one who went out and looked at the site she said it's all stable and ready to go okay if that's the case do we have a motion I move that we um whatever the right word if I'm looking for issue thank you uh certificate of compliance 19 Porter Road Mass 2041 Z3 great do we have a second I'll second thank you roll call vote uh Sarah Sarah Seward I chase CH guy Ed Ed folksy Carl excuse me Carl melberg eyy Kyle Kyle Max Michael Michael Livingston I am I still hi it's unanimous excellent tree policy uh no substantive things I've been doing some editing one thing to note is that uh the shade trees shade tree committees tree bylaw is going to come before a town meeting not this cycle but next spring so we're really CH kind of trying to align all of those things to make them happen at the same time okay thank you um next is neog Hill Farm non-lease parcel as you know we voted for that um language at the last meeting when we were all together I would like to submit to all of us the requested letter of support from the Littleton conservation trust um in support of the transfer custody control and management of the approximately seven acres um is there any discussion or any other update that we need to know about that you do all um have in your packet the new Ross um the plan of the lower parcel um that basically just follows that rock wall all the way down for town meeting we will have that line highlighted in a different color so the town's people um know that as well I have had conversation with Will Pickard who is on the egg committee they're meeting soon and I asked them asked him if he could put on the agenda this um particular warrant article and did ask them for if they felt comfortable um a vote of support for this as well s question um at some point um I know the house is on the other part but at some point um I know we want to keep this one set for this particular timeing are we at some point going to express any interest so we can figure out the house um all I can tell you so the update that I have is the RFP closed last Friday at 10 o'clock what I know is that there are four people that submitted an RFP I don't know anything about that that's for the 49 Acres that are APR for lease we're having a meeting not this Wednesday next Wednesday to go over that I think Carl I just don't know the pathway okay as of yet because the the committee is somewhat defunct because we fulfilled the mission and now we're just kind of going through the motions the way that I read the RFP is that the Town Administrator will make the decision um ultimately on if there is someone viable for that lease so I think when we have if we need to have the mapc meetings that we're supposed to have two of those which is really about the town's people telling us what they think we'd like to do with the land I think that's when that conversation about the house and that I don't because the house was excluded from the lease I think that's still on the back burner at least from my committee this select board I think may have had other all right okay thank you y for sure I wish I had more answers no that's good thanks yeah okay um Turtle nesting yep um correct me if I'm wrong because I didn't me and Amy split up the minutes and she did the last meeting when she did she did the minutes for the neog uh Hill Parcel so I didn't see what happened you guys voted on all of it correct we voted on the very specific language that was given to us from Town Council and we adopted that language which okay is in hold on so I spoke with Ryan this week and I think he was looking for another vote for no um we already took the vote see the vote was established in our minutes and so we just approved the minutes and so if there's a question I'll read this so that we're all if we feel we need to take another one so it says um the L it says the language for the warrant article is in quotes to see if the town will vote pursuant to Mass General Law chapter 405a to transfer the care custody management and control of a portion of 94 neog Hill Road assessor parcel are 02-10 d0 to the Littleton Conservation Commission for Passive Recreation such portion to be identified on a plan of land at town meeting and then it said the commission concurred to having the language include passive Recreation and not inclusive we took a roll call vote what we can do now that we know that it's approximately seven acres happy if you guys want to go through just to dot all but we've already we've already made a vote we're all here what do we think we need to do is so I spoke you're breaking up Tim when I spoke with Ryan this week uh sorry yeah uh when I spoke with Ryan this week he wanted to know if you guys wanted to update the language to include um to include parcel 107a now that it's got you know it's a designation the designation of the parcel itself sure so that's a good point so when we took the vote it wasn't designate it was not yet split off right so the plan that you have now from Ross and Associates shows the subdivision plan would you like me to share it no we all have it I think it's more the language gotta what would you all like to do I I think it would be helpful to specifically reference you know the 7.9 plus or minus Acres uh and specifically the lot um but I I mean our our our previous vote stands of course but I think specifically referencing it wouldn't hurt so I make a motion that we adopt the languages voted on earlier from September 10 2024 to include parcel now known as Lot 10 7- a which is 7.9 Acres on N neog Hill Road adjacent to lot 107b which is 12.4 Acres second all right uh roll call vote uh Sarah Sarah Seward I chase chase gag I Michael Michael Livingston I Ed Ed Pai Kyle um Maxi Carl Carl melberg I myself I it's unanimous Turtle nesting site Tim yep so um if we want we could take this up now or we can we have Matt here Matt Silverman from the water department um this is basically just schedule on a s sidewalk to go over the potential Turtle nesting habitat areas um we can talk with Matt now he he has an agenda item later in the meeting we can wait until then it's up to you guys okay you also have someone who's not identified in the attendees with just a telephone number so 978 9951 1220 if you need to be moved in as a panelist you would need to identify yourself I believe that's joh mcgean from uh 15 no okay they have to you have to identify yourself so I just moved Matt did you move Matt over I'm trying to move him over uh so Matt we're trying to move you over there we go okay all right so Matt all yours um this is the 745 continued public hearing notice of intent Littleton water supply connection wab Taylor Street MK d 204-9956 room pretty quick y but just to kind of give some background because I know it's been a while since we've uh been on with you guys so um yes as Sarah said you know the project is the water supply connection the Trumble well uh connecting to wiam MAV being piped to our treatment plant over there and then in addition to that um extending the water main on Wickham Avenue into boxboro so some general background like I said it's this Project's two separate contracts um they're kind of complimentary with each other because without developing this wellsite we really don't have the water supply capacity to connect the public water systems in boxboro um you can see the extent of the project here there's our wellsite access area and then the piping I'll show some better plans later so but that's kind of the general overview um so this is sort of the site we we've had a lot of discussion about hopefully that's somewhat clear we can again go through this in a little bit more detail after but this is most of um what we were kind of reviewing in our earlier meetings as far as access points infrastructure at the 153 uh Taylor Street site uh so some updat numbers on the impacts to Wetland buffer area these are these were um submitted I think last week to Amy so it looks like there's going to be 2394 square feet of proposed alteration to the BL blsf at the well station as well as um permanent alteration in the existing cross country area flood storage on site hasn't been changed at the Trumble Well site Riverfront area impacts total of square footage of 13547 which is all temporary uh a lot of this again is in the existing roadway as well as parallel to route two but this is all uh temporary excavation which will will then be covered in um all underground so no surface impacts and then we also discussed some tree replanting uh because we do have to take down a few trees on the Trumble Well site so um I I think yeah the next slide I have a a photo here of where we're proposing to put those uh being being mindful of the the required radius uh those are the 12 trees and the species that we were chosen um are four swamp White Oaks four red maple and four Hackberry and then really the the big ticket item uh the the newer information that I'd like to kind of touch on tonight is the conservation and permit which was issued by the division of fisheries and wildlife uh and this was due to a take of blings turtle from from pumping the well during the pumping test so basically the conservation management permit instructs us how to avoid and minimize impacts to blings turtle and ensure long-term net benefit so that we are still able to develop that well site and withdraw water from it to supply the town so basically the obser impacts to the blings Turtle occurred uh in two separate pumping tests the first one was just one Wetland feature and then the second one we actually monitored I think seven or eight Wetland features to confirm any impacts uh and we did see some draw Downs in those monitored Wetlands over the course of the 15-day pumping test and again the this is all referenc in the CMP so I'm happy to show these documents and Maps um after we have a discussion so basically the CMP conditions uh there's a long list of them first there's a turtle protection plan that was issued for construction so this includes uh contractor education monitoring of construction doing Turtle sweeps that kind of thing uh as well as the remote monitoring which has already been set up uh a lot of the turtles in the area have already been tagged and we're able to do remote Telemetry on them as well as some conventional Turtle protection in the form of fencing Turtle exclusion fencing we're also required by the CMP to do long-term monitoring of the four impacted ephemeral features uh do some nesting habitat creation this would be uh phased approach which I I can also discuss later but in the initial phases we would need to create one nesting habitat um and then in order to actually pump the well at the amount that CMP prescribes us which is 184 gallons a minute we would have to create a second habitat and then uh if we're going if we were going to double that withdrawal which we believe the well is is definitely capable of hydro hydrogeologically uh managing then we would have to create another a third nesting site and then other conditions include creation of a ephemeral Wetland feature a constructed ephemeral Wetland feature and doing some long-term monitoring there which would be proposed on the Trumble well property uh habitat use movement and habitat occupancy monitoring of the blindings turtle and Nest protection and head starting so that that's really all I have as far as newer information but um I know you had the CMP distributed to you I think it was about two weeks ago now uh so if there's anything in there that you'd like me to clarify or discuss I'm happy to do that as well as any other uh details related to the project and Matt I I think just to remind the Commissioners that um we're very fortunate everyone's been able to work with Oxo who tends to be this is like we're really very fortunate that you have a a good relationship with them as as does conservation so I think they're hopefully going to be very very thorough everything that I've read so far it's been you know right right on par for for them as we look at that whole area with some of the adjacent properties as well Commissioners have any questions I think you you'll also see that in your packet um it was provided for you the six-page document outlining order of conditions should you um vote on that this evening so um that was sent to you as well does anyone have any questions for Matt I think obviously this is going to be a long-term long-term plan and um there'll be some obviously different site visits as well yeah and one thing I would like to add on to that is we are hoping to come back and file a second noi for all the work related to the CMP so we don't have all the details right now and there are some some conditional things in there as far as like where the nesting sites will actually go um so you know we we wouldn't proceed with the entire CMP as written until we get uh second approval from the commission right so that's thank you for that reminder so that's not what we're voting on right now and we still have to go do another s sidewalk for that and for those areas as well and that's on that's on our discussion item so I guess b a question on that I I understand what we're voting or potentially voting on tonight but that that letter basic what what do you have to what do you have to complete from that CMP prior to actually working wasn't there certain things of that CMP that need to be completed prior to hey the installation and then be piping yeah so uh I'll I'll try to it's a very extensive document as you've seen so I'll try to kind of summarize but most of these tasks have different phases so each of each of the tasks has like a phase one which is essentially the construction prior to pumping um so as far as monitoring goes we'd have to implement that monitoring program before um we're already actually doing that we're we're monitoring those four ephemeral features um let's see obviously the turtle protection plan would be would be during construction and then let's see I know the nesting the nesting sites yeah so no no later than the initiation of pumping the well we would have to be we would have to have uh the first nesting habitat created and then within a year after the initiation of pumping that second nesting site would have to be created U and then monitoring we would require two years of initial uh Turtle monitoring and Telemetry as well as the Wetland monitoring and I believe the the Wetland creation um yeah the Wetland creation is required within one year of the initiation of pumping so we're really looking to jump on it as soon as we can um you know we we've gone out to bid for the project and we have it will likely take at least two years and most of these uh fa the first phase of these tasks is two years so okay want to make sure you're keeping track of what needs to get done there was 20 specific conditions outlined there that you know aren't simple task so if you need to come back before us again just make sure you're keeping up with it I guess okay yeah we're hoping to get all of the details kind of organized and come back to the commission as soon as we can uh and and kind of jump on it early get those site walks done and and get the nli filed within the next month or two great so I think we had a a tenative date of November 6th I believe and then ultimately what we talked about was maybe trying to see if we could even do that earlier was unsure whether it was better to have Leaf litter on the ground or still in the trees so when Amy's back we'll we'll see how best to go forward with that but that is a discussion item that we have coming up as well any other Commissioners have any questions um I know I mentioned earlier a letter of support from Mr Santos um asking he could not join us tonight but to ask to have a letter of support with this project oh sorry it's it's a Sanders actually Sanders Sanders what say yes Sor but thank you for that George Sanders senior what would you all like to do if you're in support of it we can have a motion and acknowledge the order of conditions that have been provided to us or ask for additional information I don't have any additional information I'm looking for here so I'd be comfortable going for Al righty want to make a motion if I could find the agenda on my computer would make a motion you want me to go chase yeah if you got it I'll make a motion to close the public hearing and issue order conditions most for the Littleton water supply connection wcav and Taylor Street M DP number 204-9956 oh Michael I think you're on mute Michael Ed Ed F no Kyle Kyle Max Carl I'm gu Chase Chase K gu myself I it's un uh sorry we've got six uh yay and one nay uh one second Chase I've got here in my notes um that you might not be able to vote because you recuse yourself for two meetings I I was um mixing this up with a different water department project so I think okay here just trying to make sure yeah the the other water department project is one that I need to recuse myself from okay so 51 carries okay um Matt you should be all set okay thank you very much appreciate it good Lu good night Matt good night okay I'd like to it's now 8:08 I'd like to open the 8:00 continue discussion enforcement order for 15 Powers Road so are you there Don is muted hello hello joh hey can you hear me y y you introduce yourself John M gagan sorry I wasn't sure if I got the unmuting correct yep okay all right welcome back John um so just to recap in the notes there was um actually Tim if you can call that up with photos and notes so I think for the most part everybody has Scene 15 Powers Road um and what I'd like to do is to open up discussion of the path this is a continued of an enforcement order of what we would like to have the um the owner although I know you're not the owner John of 15 Powers Road so Tim if you could y I'm trying to screen sh John not sure if you can see us or if you're just on with your phone um Tim is calling up photos from the site walk the other day yep okay um who would like to take the lead on this discussion Commissioners who was out there most recently but I wasn't able to make it since that most recent s sidewalk so I can't really speak for what you've seen or what's been Mich you want to give it a for anything it's worth nothing has changed in months okay Michael if you want to just do an overview of what we've seen and what some of the concerns might be um sure I can try I'm not sure I'm on thick enough ice but we'll see um so um I've actually been out twice and uh uh you know briefly what we've seen is uh you know there's been uh uh a certain amount of expansion of the uh the driveway area and uh uh outdoor space to uh kind of uh level it make uh some room for uh parking uh vehicles and and equipment uh what I understand is that the material used is uh um a scrapings from uh road maintenance and uh a variety of other uh construction materials and what have you um I understand that the footprint uh or the um area and um I wish I could draw on the screen here uh the um slope hasn't been extended but it's uh uh much steeper than it had been previously um you know we've seen that there's a variety of uh um items that are stored in various locations there's been rocks that have been uh moved around or Andor brought in to uh make a barrier and um I think that's a brief summary so so I I think the concern was the whether the uh um uh edge of the driveway is going to remain stable uh um how uh various plantings can be put in and uh expected to be uh thriving and uh that's all I have off the top of my head okay no that was great um I think Kyle and I can add into that I think that concerning to me is the expansion of Phil in the resource area obviously out outside storage of items that need to be removed um the um owner had stated that rocks had been brought in pretty pretty sub substantial rocks as well um I do feel that the fill that was used outside of the tailings from the road is construction debris you've got outbreaking of full concrete blocks that obviously is not going to stabilize well you do have breakout that's occurring on the driveway coming down already and we did um comment on that on the last s sidewalk last week um Sarah is it your opinion based on that and I I apologize I haven't seen this side just the photos but that the restoration here needs to involve the removal of the uh lowquality soil and replacement with actual soil as opposed to construction debr yeah I think I think that's the part I think we're looking at twofold you're looking at restoration and mitigation so in terms of trying to by having a professional such as what we did with you know foresight and Chuck Aon is to come in and see where is Virgin soil back so you can see um where the utility trailer is and some of the bigger Boulders that that has been obviously enhanced there and then as you go to the back of the property um just more area has been cleared and there's just a lot more storage there as where so you have that balance of perious versus impervious as well see it looks like here looking at these photos that we need a and I know we've seen some like handdrawn plans but it it seems like we need a professionally developed restoration and mitigation plan I think you'd have to find where the actual Wetlands line is I think it was shared with us that the majority of the the backyard is in the 0er to 50 because as you go up towards the street you get into the 100 so you can see just fill that's been added and um items that are majority of the card when we had the most recent walkthrough I had the 50 and 100 foot buffers marked out and it's a small section um is of work done is inside the 50 um so I don't know if i' necessarily say most of the yard I'd say a small a very small portion okay so and that could be fair enough so that what we do is we defer to a wetland scientist um who can actually look at look at the soils and and the vegetation I think because there's been so much altered I think it's it's hard um and I think you were rly so to pull it off the the corner of the house going by the old plans but that's where a specialist it's not um us to say where the lines are we're we're here to verify them so Commissioners what would you what would you like to do so we could send um the owner on a path to kind of recovery for all of this yeah I think we got have yeah so Tim these were a little can you kind of walk us through what you're showing right now what you try we're trying to show with the pink verse blue lines yeah so the blue line right here um was the original width and the current width right now is the the pink line so okay all right so that a little extension towards the bottom of that photo okay that's I say that's and that's where that trailer is stored in that photo obviously um that's what you're showing there Tim is the length not the width it hasn't gotten six inches wider it's gotten several feet longer okay got it uh it's then different the uh that trailer has been sold and it's kind of just open space fit back right now yeah I was just talking just referencing an area I guess um I mean I guess the point is that it could be used used like that in the future right regardless of what's there now I was my my point going is that yeah you can see what in this photo right like that was a vegetated area that hadn't been touched or filled and now it's been expanded um with you know not high quality material with rubble and cinder blocks concrete blocks that you if we were to have come in front of us from the get-go we would not have permitted something like that um I think is I don't disagree I would just ref back to the plan that I showed you guys last meeting can you guys give me some can you guys give me a minute and and that was helpful for us going out on site too so that to show you where well to show where I plan on the grass coming to which is the end of the driveway that you just so just there was a trailer there because it was a good spot for it the trailer has been sold and it's not there and that'd be a good spot for grass is what I'm trying to get at I think it would be hard pressed to have vegetation grow on some of the my my opinion is that you have to get that undesirable f lot of there and get something that something with grow in I I think that's step one step one is getting a wetland scientist to put down the exact Wetland line so we know what we've been dealing with and then getting that undesirable I'm not going to call it soil it's called debris out of there and start fresh that's the intent um um Mr mcag you're the you said you're not the owner you live there uh both I guess oh both okay who who actually owns the property a trust a trust who who was the trustee me so you own the property yeah you control it through a but you are effectively owning it right I just said oh it depends how many people are in the trust Ed right if he's the only person in the trust yes but if there's other siblings or anybody else that may not be true but anyway I I just asked a question because I I just trying to clarify because I had heard that during this presentation I just want to make make sure that we're including the right people if we need to be including the trust we should include the trust in all this too that's a good point but I'm I'm at an impass here I'm this the sole Trustee of a trust that owns the house that I live at therefore both I both own the house and I live here in the form of a trust okay perfect thank you for answering that okay so we are under enforcement order so the goal here is for us to um give him a path forward and a time frame of which you have to have performance done I mean let's go through what we've requested right we've requested a wetland delineation from a professional Wetland scientist we've requested a restoration plan that includes pulling back the slope and removal of the objectionable materials we've included requested a restoration plan that includes um clean soils and vegetation and I think last week we or two weeks ago we also requested a restoration plan um that the restoration plan include plantings as part of the mitigation and that includes removal of structures in the zero to 50 correct okay right and sure and the restoration plan should include removal of structures in 0 to 50 but I I mean I think when you put those things together and I think we should come back and make sure that list is comprehensive um for the property owner once you put that together it's going to be a couple weeks but I I don't want this to just sort of Fritter on like we we need a date certain where we have those things there's got to be a deadline and two weeks in my opinion is too close but four weeks is probably right it's a little hard but not trivial to get it done four weeks and we're talking about the plan not the actual work right so we meet again on October 8th and October 22nd so I think what I'm hearing is O um time frame would be October 22nd for um to show due diligence that you have hired or engaged um how would you frame that engaged a wetland s y I guess let let me say this um I expect those plans on October 22nd not not like just hey I've retained someone to do the plans yeah I don't think a month is reasonable uh given the circumstances I mean I'm I'm happy to extend it to essentially six weeks where four weeks out we have evidence that a professional was retained but I'm not comfortable extending it any further than that yeah I think you're right so I think we have to have it just another check-in at a minimum that shows that you're working and you can give an update on why I think a check a check-in we could probably do a check-in in two weeks but I think asking for everything you're asking for in uh a month is uh not realistic okay so what I'm hearing is that we're g to have a check-in so let me modify this request so we'll have a check-in on October 8th which is two weeks and so at that point hopefully you could have someone an engagement letter and then we will go out one month from there to have plans um that have acknowledged all the previous conversations and items and so I'm not familiar with what the November date is um Tim you'll have it's the uh the 12th so there's a three- week gap between the2 so even even in a little extra time s i i wna you said you're looking for this I'd like to be a little more explicit sure at least in terms of my expectations two weeks from now we need to see an engagement letter from a professional wetland scientist and an engineer or other qualified professional who's been retained to provide the items that we just discussed or we re-explore fines and tickets and all that crap right like that two weeks that's a deadline deliverable is a retention agement so and I think um that we had an directly pardon me am I am I allowed to deal with the mass D directly nope well so now you guys are conf conflicting each other it's kind of a I mean I hate to say yes or no but I thought up until this point we've been pretty communicative moving towards getting a resolution to this and now this this meeting has been very uh well with all with all due regard photographs don't do justice to what's on site so um I feel as though we perhaps were on a path but now what you're hearing is that the majority of Commissioners have been actually physically on the site and yes they opinions have changed based on what they have seen I can't speak for them but I can speak for myself that I feel as though there there's been some egregious fing and let me be clear about what like my perspective here I'm I'm not trying to set these firm deadlines for for any punitive reason I'm trying to set these firm deadlines because if we don't implement this relatively quickly it's going to be like this until the spring so we've got to move through these I've been talking with Amy about for the last month Y and Amy's been trying to get us out on site I immediately got the 50 and 100 foot buffers marked out and communicated with am get her out here and as soon as we could I think it was exactly two days within a week of the meeting site members were here yeah and that's good and we we appreciate that we just want to keep it moving one of the other things that that that we talked about the last meeting was taking that old septic plan that has all everything marked out on it and use that to to also note the planting so that we would have specific uh instead of a handdrawn uh picture and I I didn't I mention it only because I didn't hear that in your list Chase when we did the walkth through I asked if there was anything for the next meeting I should have ready or bring and it was very clear that you guys were to discuss the work that had been done here and go over it and we'd review that at the next meeting this is what we're doing now we can't have those conversations they have to be in an open meeting and this is what this forum is so that's why we can't have off bar conversations of what needs to be done so this is the first time that collectively you have the Commissioners here having this discussion but Mr Mel it to the extent that you don't think a month is sufficient to get those plans put together I think what you've heard from us is great we'll we'll set the deadline for that for seven weeks for for actually having the plans put together but we still want to know two weeks from now that that the profess have been retained to do that yeah as as soon as I can I'm going to reach out and see what Wetland scientists are available and check out pricing and I'm going to have to shop around it's not something that's going to happen overnight again single father two kids I work 40 50 hours a week so previously tonight there was a a homeowner on at 30 Warren Street who was in a similar predicament and he was able to hire both um Specialists you might want to reach out to him and see who his resources were um and the time frame that he was able to hire them as well so that is on the agenda you can see who that person was okay so we have to keep moving on so we are putting you forward for October 8th and Tim will email you in the coming days provided you want to by email or certified mail the letter that states the items that are needed for November 12th commissioner I just have one last question I want to Circle back is uh me dealing with M ET directly is that I got a I got a well I got a no you're under an enforcement you're under an enforcement order right now my understanding is that if you do not comply with the enforcement order then you could potentially deal just with d which we I would have to look and see you don't actually know the answer let let's be clear though this has been going on for quite some time and at every meeting there have been lots of attempts to assist what you have to provide how you provide it there's been site walks now there's been a specific list of items that you're going to have communicated to you the fact that we're looking for commitment by two weeks that you've actually engaged the appropriate folks that should not be an unreasonable period of time not saying they have to actually do the work but you have to have at least hired them that doesn't make any sense but I do want to say like I mean we had a meeting probably a month or five weeks ago where you asked me to reach out to an engineer and I or maybe maybe it was the last meeting and I told you I don't have the resources to reach out to an engineer I was able to get thank you Amy a copy of the the septic plan and transcribe that over to my backyard to be able to appropriately scale where the plants are going to go and the 50 and 100 foot buffers nothing has changed between the last meeting and this current meeting where I now have the resources to go get both an engineer and a wetland scientist I'll look into the Wetland scientist but I it doesn't make sense that I can hire somebody but then have them not do the work that's just lying to your guys's faces that's not what we're saying no we're saying we want to know that you hired them and then come the November meeting we want to know that the work is actually in progress right that's a good that's a good faith so at the present time your fines have ceased there's no more tickets because we are moving this ball forward for you so we have every intention of asking you to hire in good faith those two professionals and work on rehabilitating the site and that's in good faith so I it would be up to the Commissioners on October 8th if you don't do things in good s good faith then perhaps the defines would the clock would start ticking again and then I mean I I've expressed that I intend on reaching out to a Welling scientist but I just oh I just I don't want to get into it because it's just sounds ridiculous are you gonna start just finding me again every day for the rest of my life or until I have to deal with Kimberly at the mass DP who's really easy to deal with is involved in this so whenever there's an enforcement order they're aware of it so you're certainly welcome to call them they're aware of the fines they're aware that those have been put on H hold and I've been in touch with that so we're gonna Commissioners have anything else no Okay so we will look forward to seeing you on October 8th and Tim will send you a list of items and Tim can reference that send that along to d as well yep okay thank you all right we're going to move on it's now 8:33 to um the 815 update enforcement order zip switch 05-16 d0 Commissioners were asked to go out and look at uh um the the vegetation on that I see that Mr Gallagher's not here which I don't don't think that we anticipated him to be there I went back out I went back out on the site um Commissioners your thoughts on on vegetation uh Sarah one real quick mark did say he's not going to be here he asked that that's right that's that's fine um yeah so he's not gonna be here we just move it you want to just hold off and we'll we'll do it the next time well yeah I mean if you guys are going to opt for the plantings and you want to be in this year it's getting a little late you guys don't have to continue because it's not a a a public meeting or public it's just discussion it's really up to you guys it's an enforcement order so um I mean I've got the same opinion here that I have with respect to the previous enforcement order which is that we tend to be very well let's see what you can get to us and things like that and and we've seen in this case that's resulted in nothing happening I I think two weeks from now we need to we need to determine right here and right now what do we expect to have two weeks from now and if we don't have it what are the consequences I having seen the site where kind of The Cattails are I don't want to um interfere with that but um as you first enter you've got wood chips there there's no vation there's some old rubble from the built- on site you've got the stumps that were not revegetated I personally would like to see a planting plan there because also one of my concerns is when the adjacent field you know God forbid if that ever gets developed there's not going to be any trees in that neck of the woods so I would like to go ahead and see a um robust planting plan in the first section not going down into the wetlands or behind there yeah yeah I agree I think we need to I think it's a kind of a combination of what Chase had mentioned last week and then what you just mentioned Sarah I think there's plenty of area on that site that needs some help some some vegetation but I also agree that stuff looks good in some of that a lot of that area out there that we probably should leave um so I agree I maybe not the planting plan that they had originally provided but find something something new okay any other Commissioners that's gone out or have input on this who who designed can you remind me who designed the planting plan that they submitted uh was it sue Carter I think it was Su Carter Sue Carter sounds right y okay is there a commissioner that would like to take the lead um on this particular project to help work with Sue that if she has questions or Bounce It Off sure you want me to reach out to her and start a dialogue is that what you're asking no I think Tim just let know that we would like something for next week and if she has a quick question or needs a question out on site that to just try and connect with Kyle sure okay great thank you um just a quick digression Sarah for everyone's edification I pulled up the Mac handbook and enforcement orders issued by a Conservation Commission cannot be appealed to Mast but maybe appealed to Superior Court yeah we I think we had that conversation that Amy made that pretty clear that you know any appeal likely that he was going to make would have to go to the court not to the DP y okay thank you Chase um all right let's go ahead and before we Circle back to administrative discussions let's go ahead for the 820 continued public hearing notice forent 13 winged Co Road Mass D 20 204-1081 postponed yeah Kyle didn't have his revisions ready um so he requested to be continued to the next meeting okay thank you um let's jump back to administrative discussions Turtle nesting site walk as you may have heard earlier if we can just put in save the date I think that's November 6 what was the conversation about having it earlier or is that off the table I think but we we'll have to wait till Amy gets here and I think the water department is looking to see I'm not sure if Oxo or somebody has to be there as well I think how we left it was like we'll let their minds Tim maybe you might know more about that yeah yeah I think they were looking for Oxbow to be there during the site walk definitely y want them for sureal sites and yeah but um yeah I would like to do it before November 6th if we could but okay um goals priorities and budget you want to wait till am's back um or is there something on that as its own meeting as a a special meeting or did you want to take it on regular meetings sorry you were breaking up I'm I didn't couldn't hear what you said oh my bad um did you guys want to take this on as its own meeting as a special meeting or address it at one of our regular meetings up to you all it might actually be good to have kind of like a subcommittee take this on maybe with Amy and Tim just kind of go over you know any potential uh large expenditures or you know goals for the year uh I think at a regular meeting it might be a little tricky to kick it around and really get something uh yeah okay I like that suggestion a lot didn't you yep do we have people to do that so in the same breath the next one the town parcel review I know that I volunteered to help with that and I know somebody else volunteered as well y Andre so if sorry Andrew I didn't hear what you said what did you say I was just going to say yeah it was me okay so I think the two dates we have are October 9th and 15th at 4:30 so uh if you guys can just let me or Amy know which one of those works best for you guys we'll probably try wait a minute breaking up let me just look at that October 9th or 15th I mean I assume those are two of the dates that were on the doodle that she sent out right that was for this yeah yep I think you already said you're available did I fill it in I I don't know okay well we'll wait and see okay so with Kyle Andrew and myself with Town parcel who wants to help with goals priorities and budgets Ed Michael car I can help with it okay so Michael Michael if sorry um Tim if you could send out maybe a doodle for that committee yeah and we'll try and so if we'll split up so three of us can meet but four of us cannot so we have to make sure open to quum open meeting three can do it four cannot um a reminder November 13th Mac webinar storm water for Commissioners um those are really really helpful and then Amy sent along one of the ones that I'm doing next week that is hold on if I can figure out what it is oh October 8th the integrated Pest Management for aquatic invasive species specifically purple loer so that was October 8th that's virtual as well um okay anything else uh I had just one more thing 161 to one with they were the ones who had the uh they've got the enforcement order for taking down the trees we're waiting on the septic we just got the filing for the septic um and the location of the replanting next meeting done in November like we're getting into we're having the same conversations here about all of these sites now so we meet on October 8th so but that's a that's a replacement system or a new system replacement yeah it is a replacement so I think the trees can come down but Kyle with that regard they probably wouldn't they wouldn't plant until the spring now but the order conditions is going to be out for at least a year two trees already down yeah that was my point that the trees have already been cut down they've been down for three or four months now type thing right we're in the same same boat where this is just Slinger I know we said we were going to wait for the septic to go ahead with the mitigation and planting plant I was under the assumption it was going to happen this year oh did you say toah oh sorry did you say tadan yeah I'm sorry I was thinking something over at mwan okay um so it wasn't on the agenda so we can't vote on anything I mean it is just yeah just put it on October 8th and yeah I was just wanted to let you guys know that we did get that in front of us okay okay and we also had the site walk uh at the storage facility in New Town um I don't know if anybody yeah they requested to continued to next meeting or is next I think it's next meeting okay so for that next meeting I I believe a site walk report was submitted if that can just be resubmitted the night the with that packet for that meeting that would be a good good refresher sure than Okay g be a busy meeting pardon me it's going to be a busy meeting sounds like for sure okay I may not be able to be at that meeting either may have a conflict he conveniently says After he finds that's why I wanted to get it out now before it's like we actually see the agenda and they're like oh I know what you're up to okay motion to adjourn at 844 do we have a second second all right final roll call vote uh Michael living Cai Kyle ni cheese Che K Carl Carl melberg I Ed Ed folks Sarah Sarah SE I and myself I it's unanimous thank you for watching us Sophie good night