##VIDEO ID:pyhitSTcl9w## uh welcome to the finance committee meeting for September 17th um our agenda tonight going reorganize the committee this our first meeting separately since the beginning of the year so we can do that we're going to review the articles for the town meeting warrant um we have Alicia da from p and wreck here talk about one of the Articles we going to give an update of the shakan school uh building we're going to talk about the FY 26 budget process in the timeline appr some minutes and hopefully we'll be out of here uh before 9:00 okay y excellent um reorganizing the committee so we have uh current is on the chair Fred's Vice chair and Brian is Clark and all three positions are up once again so do we have any um nominations for chair um well I don't know if this is if I can do this but in light of the fact that we have um three new members um and I still feel like I'm learning and with some of the things that we're trying to do like the budget process timeline the meeting with departments the um the Blended funds for the uh CPC um and all of these big projects I would nominate that we don't make a change that we stay consistent for this year because I think that um so sounds like you don't want to be well uh no I I do not but um I don't want to say that you know because uh Steve and Fred are retired that you have you know free time but you have a little more flexible time um to meet with people when it's needed um Brian was just talking about his travel too I know you've got a lot of experience but um I don't know what anyone else thinks about that there's a sorry I didn't mean to interrupt but I would second your sentiments I'm I mean like you said we assuming you would want the positions again but I'm I'm new myself and certainly not ready to take any of those positions on so have a huge learning curve ahead of me which I'm trying to get ahead of but I would feel much more confident with any of the three of you in the leadership positions sanj and Jonathan ATI we could stick them so is that any uh nomination in a second is that it for the current slate is that question again yeah it's there's not much other than tracking down the the minutes and it's about what my brain cells can accomplish so I have a nomination for Steve as chair Fred as Vice chair and Brian as clerk second second all in favor of that slate hi excuse me Steve what is the gentleman's name sitting next to you Mike Mike Mike p r o u l x oh okay thank you you're welcome very much all right pass okay very much s had we ahead yes that's excellent don't mess it up review the articles of the Fall town meeting warrant and we have Alicia here to get her out of here we'll deal with that article first and this article ran is this is going to be a article this will be article four and I'm going to pass over the current draft this um I emphasize the word draft so as you'll see when we go through it so all right so if you remember at the Town last town meeting uh there was a article on the warrant for the tennis courts 70034 $734,000 y coming out of the CPC for two two four tennis courts and pickle ball Courts at the high school not they were going to be lying pickall they were going to be lying yes yeah and that has changed and Alicia here is tell us about um so thank you for your time I will try my best this is uh we have been on a long ride with this one so um what I would ask is if I can get through the presentation then I will happily answer all the questions because I have a feeling I will probably be answering your questions as we go along because it is kind of a a long story but I will try to keep it as concise as possible so all right how did we get here all right so um just to kind of give a general background on um what this process has been so um the tennis court project became a necessity um when we were understanding that they were going to be demolishing the tennis courts here at Town call uh Town Hall sorry for the senior center um that site consisted of two tennis courts uh with four lined pickle ball courts on it so it was all of those uh two courts and pickle ball all at the same time so we tried to get ahead of it uh we came up with a an original location um that uh Cooper Farm was chosen and um we contracted with places to do a design in Fall 2020 uh sorry 2022 um and that went through town meeting the cost was about $1.1 million which we felt was uh expensive so uh we decided to take that off of uh the town meeting so that did not go forward so Ryan and I actually went back to the drawing board um and we looked at trying to renovate um and use the Littleton High School courts actually you and I did Cooper together Co then we yeah re to the high school um so when we decided to uh go to to that we were looking at the four tennis courts which Stephen meant uh mentioned it was at uh fall town meeting in 2023 and um we were approved for 7, uh 340 uh sorry $734,000 um from CPC that was approved so what happen after that um so after that we met with activitas uh they are a company that specializes in design of sports courts sports Fields um that was that's that's always been um their main bread and butter so so uh we met with them um we went over the design that we had with places uh that was more of just a concept um at the high school and that concept didn't include the required setbacks so those required setbacks for the tennis courts are about 25 ft around the perimeter and also 25 ft in the middle to separate the at that time there' be like two sections um that we had there so that greatly Chang the design um so I'm going to I'll come back to the bottom of this but I'll move over to this so this was their updated design that they gave us so uh one of the concerns that uh Mark racher had was that um our original design which is on that left hand sorry the right hand side um would be a east to west when it should be north to south or flip-flop sorry yeah so either way when they actually put in those 25 foot uh setbacks you can see that either we would have to cross the boundary line um on the Indian Hill property that's the one that's on the right hand side where uh the courts are over top of that green line or we would have to eat into more of the parking lot um at the high school which in our conversations with the school department sorry school department and School Board board um were that you know we needed to be able to have spaces for those buses to remain so obviously eating into that um uh parking lot was not going to be an option so then that leaves us with a slope site we all know where slope sites go so that uh we we definitely believe that that site um straddling uh 36 king and the school uh Department's property um um would have been extremely more expensive uh than what we had originally asked for so knowing that um we decided to um go back to the drawing board we asked activitas to put together a fee proposal for a design permitting bidding and construction Administration um so when they gave that back to us trying to think about what time frame I want to say we got that report back either sometime in June um and that cost was about $112,000 so we were trying to figure out how do we pay for this right before we get the town meeting so we can have all of this prepped and ready to go um we did have Town Council review it uh and they said that it can't be paid out of the park and recck revolving um because it does not fall within the expenses associ assciated with programming that we do so we're at a place where um we are trying to work with activas so that we can come up with a number for town meeting but I will get to that later on um okay uh any questions about the slope site because I'm going to move on from the high school I know I said I would answer questions later but this is I'm not going to come back to this one so um was activitas were they the ones who did the design at at Cooper no so places Associates um was the one that had done the original design at Cooper and they did a concept drawing um for the high school okay so the slope wasn't considered when you came up with the 734000 no because at that time we didn't know that they hadn't included that 25 setback 25 foot setback that was needed all the way around the court because they just they didn't actually give us an engineered design they gave us a concept drawing essentially so that that's this side right that's both of those actually are the ones that we got from activitas with the setbacks yeah they those include the setbacks so the original design that we had um would have fit trying to think what it was it would have eaten into like a little bit of that um the bus but we were going to be able to move um we still would have to deal with storm water management but we would have had to move the lines um and some of those aisles down the middle as well cuz I thought I remembered that they were talking about putting in a a road from the Indian Hill property through the high school so it just seems to me like there should be more space to work with there's there's not though so what I just I guess I just don't know what kind of a plan was used to create to give us the number of seven 34 yep so that was we had asked uh places to take a look at it they did a concept drawing and from that they gave us an estimation of what they thought the cost would be and that was the 734 without taking into account the actual environment there I don't think they realized that they needed to have that so that that's the difference of like you know uh checking in with a A company that does specifically Sports um which I think they do more like civil engineering kind of things so um it was yeah helpful to go to someone who they know what is needed and required for sports I guess I'm just puzzled because we've been talking about this project for like a year and a half oh more than that I know okay so this is just a general about this town how do we get multiple years into a project and then find out oh my gosh it doesn't fit so that's one and the other thing is so we we encroach on the buses that's never been a sticking point in the two years that I've heard this talked about cuz people said look the buses can park up top behind Indian Hill or other places I mean so we encroach on where the the the buses Park and I mean as I've heard that it's not even our responsibility to provide parking for the buses so I'm just I'm I'm verying from my conversations that I've had with the school the superintendent with the school board and that was something that they had asked of us is that we do not eat into that parking lot that's something they did not want to support that that I'm just yeah so are we have contrary Communications I think I understand them not wanting but like you know I want a pony I mean we don't always get what we want I hear you um so so I guess I'll go back to my original question how do we get two years two years into this and the S we we the the folks who designed this made such a catastrophic mistake right and and and if if they're the ones who made the catastrophic mistake shouldn't we fire them and go with someone else well that's where process of doing yes okay okay so that those are the thing that I had explained up to the point yeah so how many designs have we paid for so far well we used so the design that we did you Ryan and I we did the one at Cooper and then with what money was left over there was like a little bit of money left over that's where we got that concept and the expense report from places so those that's it thus far and the reason we didn't follow through on Cooper was because the price tag was too high to correct well not exactly I think that um uh that the other um I think conversations took place between the the school committee and the select board also and changing changing gears on this and saying yes we've got something we could maybe do a Cooper but wouldn't it be better to do it to build tenis courts closer to the school and yet they won't give us the land to do it Welcome to our committee and like so these things are different conversations that do not include what we're doing right now loc supposed to so yes I know it is a there's a rabbit hole with all of this but um I'm presenting tonight hopefully a solution to all of this that will be a much more affordable option so um all right so I'm going to continue on here we go okay so background continuing um since we knew we had to go back to the drawing drawing board um Tim mski he is uh working with we have a Sports Council so essentially that's all of the presidents vice presidents um schedulers for uh the Youth Sports organization so um Tim Mike Lynn who's the athletic director for uh Littleton Public Schools um and those members from the Sports Council met and they decided they would just kind of like have this discussion what what could we possibly do that we can address making these tennis courts and then is there anything else that might um like how do we do this like right put all the chest pieces out put them together try to figure out what fits um and they actually came up with a really good solution so I'm going to talk about that after after this so the objectives that they um they pulled together were you know we want to be able to replace the courts like for like that we had here at town hall right we had the estimated cost of the 734 th000 which we have with CPC right now um in oh I didn't mention so these projects um that are included uh are also listed in the 2016 and 2023 open space and Recreation plan as goals um and they are uh the fields components are mentioned in the 2017 gaale field need study that we had so um the plan to build the new pickle ball courts right we had talked about that as being like something we would do down the line at Indian Hill um so we estimated that at being around $750,000 if we were going to do the I think it was like Four Courts um so uh that we'll find I'll show you when we get down in here we've come up with a solution for that so that would Nix that whole project off um so we wouldn't have to pay that um we also need to address the short of fields at the um in town um it's been listed on the capital plan since 2016 um and it was one of the major reasons that we had the field need study completed in 2017 um Gail at in 2017 estimated the cost of a new field at $1.1 million um that is something again the solution we would Nix that off of um the list we wouldn't need to do this um and then the last component on here was to improve wickom baseball field to the quality of jet softball field So currently when we did Alumni field jet field was also included in that um so the softball field used to be out at the high school uh we had all kinds of issues with it it was you know there was um drainage issues it would be swampy um so that was created along with alumni so oddly you never hear about this this is like an inverse Title 9 issue so the girls have a much better facility than the guys do um and realistically they should have equal equal Playing Fields um no pun intended pun intended I guess um so uh to be able to improve Wickam field so that can come up to the Quality um of jet so uh Gail estimated that to be about $650,000 um if we just do some of the components which I'll show you um when we move through the next couple of slides we can reduce that down to 300,000 um to get it up to a good playing uh Ser ability um so with that with this new new plan hopefully we should be able to save about $2.2 million um over the cost of like all of these projects okay all right so now I'm going to explain so this I threw up here if you wanted to see this this is actually from Gail so that shows you the numbers that they had determined um again this is 2017 so add whatever inflation percentage you'd like to add um but uh you know those were valid uh in 2017 so they would be more expensive now um all right so we will start off with um converting the existing High School tennis courts to mult multi-use courts um so that would mean essentially what would happen is the courts that are currently there they would be resurfaced they would be fixed um repainted to include uh those two tennis courts and then the the four pickle ball courts which is what we had over here so you get a like for like on that that has already happened that has already happened so we'll get to that at the end yes that's correct um so build new tennis courts um but the site that we we saw and thought would be the best ability for the space that we had was at the Littleton Middle School field um that field in the past it's the one that's right next to the gym um that field in the past has been used for lacrosse for football um we've used it for a myriad of different things it's not used very much uh at this point they might have some uh younger soccer kids out there just practicing but for the most part that's really not being used um would it be four Four Courts there I'll get there yes um all right renovate enhance um uh Wickham ball field to bring it to the level of uh jet we already mentioned that um and then we would move all of the Town soccer to the Littleton High School Fields So currently there's two baseball fields there we would not use those it would only be for soccer um yeah it's high school soccer um High School soccer Middle School tennis and Kerper stays so you kper stays so we so soccer would have Kerper as a full-size field and then um the high school has three with a potential of having four great okay thank you um um and then this we just threw this on here because this is something again we're trying to think about this stuff ahead of time um you know we can hold off on doing anything with those baseball fields cuz currently the high school does it's massively underused since the sewer project was out there and they put out the leeching field so they're they would need a lot of work to be brought back but we could not touch them in case um baseball is somehow affected by the Shaker Lane project that's something that we potentially could use so that's like it really doesn't have anything to do with this but that's just keep that in the back of your head all right so the tennis courts um so this is the high school or sorry the Middle School location sorry about that um and you can see obviously we would have the um direction of the field being the correct usage uh with the sun um we would be able to have four tennis courts in there um and we also we threw it in there just so you could see the size of it um that you could still have an 8v8 soccer field uh next to the gym um it that would remain grass that wouldn't change to anything else that would just stay the way that it currently is um so um that's essentially the design here um we did have a meeting uh a while ago where we did speak with uh Dr clenchy Mike Lynn um Ryan Jim you guys were there um principal everheart and um everybody seemed totally fine with being able to do um this at the site uh I think Dr or sorry um Mr everheart was concerned about you know the kids being able to have space outside uh but as I said this spot where you see the 8v8 uh field would still remain a grass field um there is some space behind the school uh and they also do have access to alumni as well um so that would be the location that we would be looking at so some of the positives of this um if you've ever been out to this field it is already completely flat there is no uh site uh there's not a lot of site prep that would need to happen uh we have had verification that there are not Utilities in that area so that would not be uh an issue that we would have to work with um so you know we're under the uh understanding that this would be a much simpler um build than the high school SK site would have been um because you know we're not going to be interfering with the parking lot um the drainage uh we've already been told was built um bigger than it needed to be so we're not going to have to uh do any work for storm water management um so you know essentially it's a do some light sight work be able to get the um slab down and fences up and um paint and Surface or Surface and paint um so this should be a much more simpler um process do I see lights on that they may have put them on there because Tim just uh when they put out designs for activitas they want to just throw it all out there so um no we don't I don't believe there's any suggestion of having lights out there I don't know that we can because again utilities I don't know that there's electric to do that okay and presumably the we're okay I don't know that was all the other sorry so that's a a question yeah I guess that's a the lighting thing is a question we can come back to I'm not 100% I'm just thinking you know down the road someone's going to want to put lights there and we if if if the site if the site's already torn up put the conduit down and I think that that's what Saul was mentioning is that had been mentioned yeah and presumably the high school's okay with providing um the busing for their teams and the middle school is okay with providing locker room space and all that good stuff yeah so this is like I said Mike Lynn was part of this process of kind of coming up with this game plan and this actually does help the school because um in the past they had been providing extra busing to bring the kids out here to play um so now that um right so now they have tennis out there they'll have baseball um they have track so those kids are all going to be able to be bused together so it should hopefully reduce some of the busing for them okay yeah um and since there's a pause and so I can jump in with the question it strikes me that you could do this part of the project alone and uh not to any of the other pieces so that has come up as well however um what we remember we talked about a a solution for all right so at the very beginning when I said we wouldn't have to do the new field creation we wouldn't have to um build the pickle courts like all of those things it all it all matters like they're kind of like a set of dominoes right you take one out and it's not going to work so um with having uh the witcom component to it we would need that or else I'll show you in slides coming forward um you would end up with having baseball back at the high school field which that messes everything up again um so I hear go ahead why would they have to go back to the high school so he's saying if we if we didn't do um the witm field um that more than likely because of the size that it is and the infrastructure that's already there at the baseball field it would make more sense to probably go back to the high school than it would um with um wickom sorry the other issue that we run into I'll pop a couple slides ahead here so this is the problem that we have so because that baseball field um is there it affects so anytime baseballs being played those three Fields cannot be used and this was part of the 2017 study that you know if we're trying to figure out how we're going to use the space that we have resourcefully if we get rid of that baseball field now you have four full-size fields that you can use right at all times so soccer wouldn't need to be anywhere other than the high school or and Kerper that's it we wouldn't need to have leases with st an's or anywhere else that's behind the this is the but but okay but so this is what it would be this is the current use okay and they and they can't use this field they are using that field now okay but what the my understanding is and correct me if I'm wrong what they're looking to do is upgrade that field to be closer to um jet field right but that's right but so what I'm saying so that's why I was saying like let me get through everything first before we get to the questions because it it is confusing so I want to make sure that we get everything cut can I I'm happy to wait I don't know if well I have questions about the tennis court you want go back to it but I can wait it's up to you whatever you feel comfortable doing um them down so it's awesome so let's let's finish all of this and see if I answer the questions that you guys have okay so I'm going to go back a few um so we talked about this we talked about tennis courts okay so currently witcom um not only is it used for baseball um we typically have about five smaller soccer fields out there sorry sorry this is um great question oh that's the track okay I got you yeah if you see that red part that is the outdoor track um so this is just that baseball field that's next to that so this is another field that we massively overuse um if we could again the idea concept would be turning this to baseball only and not having soccer fields um in the Outfield um because typically there's probably about uh anywhere between four to five soccer fields that we do paint out there um depending on the season typically it's heavier use in Spring than it is fall but those are the mini Fields those aren't fullsize Fields right correct yeah corre right right yeah and so sorry just we're just questioning kind of folks and so those little soccer fields would then go where everything would go to the high school you can fit the little you can fit the little Fields inside the big fields those two so we have the two on the side that was just a concept if we decided to um in the future if we wanted to be able to resod those um baseball fields and completely turn it into um uh soccer that we would have extra space to do that if that's something that we wanted to or if there was further growth in um soccer as time goes on I mean you have four regular size and eight minis basically yeah and and how many are there how many fulls sizee fields are there now just two right so that can so I'll go back to this photo no going too far so currently the the two on the right side uh those have just been opened um we had Light and Water had put uh I guess an sewer um had put the um leeching field out there so this whole field has been closed for probably 2 years now right but but but but but before that there were two big two full-size Fields there there were two fullsize Fields there however we were majority just scheduling the one because anytime there was baseball usage which you're looking at um the high school um if they had a middle school team which I think they did back then um and any of the Youth Baseball um that would compete in it's a safety issue you can't use that other field just just yeah okay okay so this actually would give us two extra soccer fields that that's what I was trying to get to okay but is didn't you say you didn't want to do anything with that land would they um would they have the leech field and all that oh no right away no no no yeah it's ready to go we've already been painting it they've been using it so um yeah yeah this fall that's they're out there already so um you know with this that you know one of the questions was like oh what do you guys have to do to this nothing absolutely nothing we just paint it and put the the four Fields out there that's it uh we just wouldn't schedule any baseball usage at all so that is fine as it is um all right so so you end up with five soccer fields you if you include Kerper four plus Kerper MH so if you want to let one rest you you're you got it you're down to four Y which is a heck of a lot better than what you have now yep yep no I'm I'm I'm getting there I'm getting there and that was um again in 2017 like I I came in uh 2016 and when I came in the fields were absolutely dismal and I can't tell you how many times I had to close the fields you I mean Mike can probably tell you how angry parents were at me um but it was a safety well but I had to you know I had to close them right um so it was a safety issue so we don't ever want to go back to that place and one of the things that Gail had suggested is if we can get into a rotation where we're able to shut down a field for a year then you know that's going to help us uh in Spades the other great thing about if we're able to just use this for soccer Fields you can actually shift them and change the rotation as needed um so there's tons of different options to us to be able to maintain these and make sure they stay in good proper order fair enough okay so to do that you're moving the baseball field from to Wi to witcom and what improvements at witcom are we talking about yeah so wickom here we go I know I'm like there's so much stuff I'm sorry guys um so with witcom um you're looking at around it would be so air did something very similar to this um just this year and activitas was uh involved in the design of that one um so they said for us to be able to do that uh creation of a full fence um obviously that's another safety issue you would need to be able to have that um a warning track um dugouts batting cages on Deck circles bullpens um we would also need to look at doing some netting behind because I guess there's been some issues with errant balls falling uh into parked cars which right we wouldn't want to that to continue um but the cost of this uh for the project over and air was about 300,000 um so that full renovation that they talked about uh in the Gale study was about 650 um so that would you know cut the cost down on that by just um changing the these things you would have a very similarly um comparable field to what we have at Jet right and just toss just saying um while that's better could they use this witam field as is what I'm wondering is can can the can they be separated to smaller bite-sized pieces for the town no I mean not really because it's it's just one of those things where it's like I hate to say this when we start parceling out uh different projects like this it just doesn't get done and it's one of those things where you know sure we could do some fixes here and there a a majority of the stuff is for safety purposes that we would need to do right the the full warning track doing the the creation of that full fence um but they still need to be able to have um I don't even think there's dugouts out there is there do you know there's uh I think like benches behind chain link fence right which is not acceptable that's like a safety issue so um well the chaining fence protects them I don't know if it was right I guess what I'm just saying is just because we're all about triage I hear you and and and in full and if we weren't in triage I'd say hell yes you know and put lights on it by the way while you're at it but but is is that field any worse than what the baseball team currently uses is what they currently use so so it's so they use that at least this past spring I think the spring before too if I'm not M because the one at the high school's been closed right so it's either we fix the one at the high school which is going to be in a massive amount of repair or we can you lose three soccer and you lose three soccer fields or you can what I'm hearing upgade this for $300,000 extra yeah we're picking up essentially four three three extra socker Fields so you that new field creation gone we don't have to do it but but I I think I think that's I think that's not the the right way to phrase it because if we if we do the the the tennis court thing and move keep baseball at at whitcom you still get the four Fields okay it's a question to me of and I'm not saying I'm against I'm just saying it's a question for me of do we spend the 300,000 to improve the current status quo of baseball or not because whether you do that or not you still get the four Fields so I don't think it's fair to say if we do whitcom then we get the four fields we get the four Fields anyway it's just a question of do we give the baseball team a better field and I'm not saying we don't I'm just saying that's how I'm looking at the tradeoff and to put yourself in the school department shoes now their trade off is they're giving land next to the Middle School the tennis courts right I hate to say it but what's in it for me type of thing but they're predominantly going to be well I don't know about predominantly but they're going to be used by the high school team Scholastics and and they've said they've said we want to keep the buses where we want them it's like okay then what's in it for us what's in it for us you know I mean we can we can play that all all day long where did the 300,000 come from I mean not the same type of designer who did the 734000 before this is the activ the company and so what is Gail then Gail is a design company question thank you for asking that um so Gail is a company that we hired back in 2017 to do a field needs assessment okay y um so we have like a a Field Master Plan um and we've used that to um create uh a fair amount of the goals that we have in uh the recreation side for um the uh 2016 and the 2023 open space and Recreation plan okay and activitas does the actual they the ones that actually know what the cost is going to be but they don't actually do the building that it still has to go out to to someone else who has to meet those prices that's correct can the come out of c c CP that's a great question so sorry I'm in I'm in techland CSA CPA whatever you know what I mean I do I do um so I jumped past one of the slides but um this is the where we are right now right um so one of the things um that Town Council um did look at was that they did determine the rehabilitation for witcom would be eligible for CPC funding because it's obviously not a stadium okay yeah right I that was from ebria yeah okay so we get the never don't want to say free but but that's that comes out of C CP that's what we' be looking to do yes she has CPC approved that they have not right so that's why when I talk about where are we right now right so just to kind of go through this yeah so I just want to go through this really quickly and maybe this will answer some of the questions so where are we right now so we're working with the um Town Administration office um to update that CPC article um and trying to figure out how to change it from you know because we need to update the location it was very specific to the high school so we would need to change that location so with that um a we need to figure out how much it's going to cost right um So currently we're working with activitas to obtain what that's going to be for the Middle School courts and that um Rehabilitation of witc come before this town meeting um sorry I'm like losing my voice now um so we before we went to CPC we wanted to make sure the school board was okay because the this is this is a location change um so we did go before the school board on September 12th um and they did approve the use of the middle school as that new location for the tennis court um and they did approve um the plan to rehabilitate wickom um so a lot of this um you know the one before this was like why the delay right um obviously we would have loved to have been you know way ahead of where we are currently um but as we started the process of um you know reaching out to boards and committees to start discuss this plan wickom field was selected as a potential site for Shaker Lane Architects for rebuild so we were just told to hold off until the decision was made either way um and then just recently the top three designs were sent off to msba um and wickom did not make the cut so that allowed us to jump back into this project um what else we we have so our next step would be to go talk to CPC um I know Steve had asked us to come talk about this tonight because you guys were you know looking at the Articles um and this is like there's lots of questions right um so you know we wanted to be able to answer those um and that would be our next step would be to go talk with CPC and see where that goes thank you for a great presentation thank youting up with it's so long our questions I was I will say initially I was like oh my God what are they doing but but you you you you want me over y all right I'll take it so the the financial ask will be whatever's on top of the 734 to develop wickom yeah we're going to we're still trying to figure out a couple of things like we've talked to some of the sports organizations and I know they were interested in putting money in but it's like I don't know if anyone's going to say yeah we're going to pledge amount of money to it so um hopefully you know we can talk to baseball soccer and see if there's like my question is so we've already approved 734000 from CPC MH the ask at town meeting potentially is going to be whatever it costs to redevelop Wickam field y so that's in a 300,000 area yeah I thought the courts at the middle School are going to be cheaper to build I believe that they will be but we won't know that until we get uh that idea from activitas so I don't want to this is the like if I tell you guys a number it sticks right um so I have no idea truly um what that will be my understanding looking at the complexity of the sites is that I would assume that it should Co cost less than what the High School site would cost we'll have a number prior to town meeting that is our goal but you price from places when we did the original was for design that really wasn't I know yeah I know that's a fair point too so you're still up in the air yeah that's a fair point what one more crazy ask question so so we're going to have Four Courts over here and then two tennis and pickle ball courts over here always always looking to to so so that would be six and we don't we've never had six so do we need these two we do um well we do in the fact that if we were going to go forward and do the pickle ball courts in the future anyway um that I mean it's already there so one thing that allows us to do is I think one of your concerns you had was Public Access right so during the school day and when they're using it for um you know practice and tournaments and things it's yeah the school's going to be using it whereas if you have a different location that has those tennis courts and pickle ball courts that they're not necess they're not going to be using for that now the public has access to it they're not going to you know so it allows so the public has access to the two or the four pickle ball courts during the day M they should do yeah even if school is in session that's the uh that's the idea yes because now the beauty of it that's the idea but is that the agreement um I mean we haven't come up with an agreement yet but I think that's what makes the most sense because you can have the public park over um at 36 King which we just purchased we're renovating um and they can access the courts from that side that's fine but I I think that that needs to be need anou that that needs to be agreed to whatever it is and I would hope that they' you know see value in allowing that to happen because it's a lot of the a lot of the seniors play during it was crazy when it was here it was busy all the time i' want to make sure that that was agreed to before town meeting interesting okay before we go to put you on the spots all but what do the P Andre commission is think of this we're in favor okay okay I have a few uh rapid fires oh boy here we go I miss the M the first one's probably more for Ryan uh wasn't the development that was supposed to be senior housing that isn't senior housing by the high school supposed to develop supposed to give us tennis courts as part of the deal they did they're awful they built them on top of where the sewer is so the court itself undulates um and around the outside um when we were talking about that 25t buffer there's actually sewer plates in those buffers yeah in fact I think within if you're playing doubles tennis uh the actual manhole is in the component court that You' play which is to know how that got proove it's a good it's a good fun thing to go take a look at um uh I already answered that one so instead has the school committee mentioned anything about five courts instead of four not to make the price tag go up but they play three singles and two doubles if I remember if I'm correct on that uh we said four we're not doing more than four okay uh and then why not line the new tennis courts for pickle ball as well it is it's already done Oh you mean the new ones so what we said is that right now Groton has just built a huge pickle ball facility um in act in Quail Ridge has also built a huge pickle ball facility if that's something that is requested and that people are looking for more spaces then we should have that discussion but to start out having the like for like makes sense because we were fine when we had the the Four Courts before okay I just I drive by Hudson High School bringing my son to hockey all the time and they their tennis courts are all lined with pickle ball they have the the nuts on Wheels and it's usually jammed um so just to give you an idea if we were to do that in the future um it's only a couple thousand dollars to put the lines down so it's for short money you can do that have you talked to soccer about this plan yes and they're in favor of they're all in favor of it they're not worried about logistics at the high school NOP cuz I mean we Sunday or Saturday mornings right now I know it's crazy in that parking lot yep okay so soccer baseball um yeah they're totally in support of it I mean we haven't really had the conversation with lacrosse because it doesn't affect mainly mhm and then when you when you mentioned being able to if we do this plan you'd be able to shut down Fields yes you I assume you're talking about like one or two of the big soccer fields behind the high school yeah one at a time correct not entire no field um so if we needed to be able to rest a field for a season um or even uh I think was it last year we took Kerper offline two it was either yeah two years ago um but uh and that was like we desperately needed to do that so now we won't have to be in the situation of being like desperately needing to do things it's just a it's part of the maintenance it's what we do we shift and rotate okay thanks I'll just say one last thing the status of our or the shape of our Fields right now compared to when I was on the park and wreck committee and we brought in a we brought on alumni yeah is night and day we I just went up we had our first soccer game up at the new uh the where the leech field is y uh two weeks ago and I was amazed at the Quality we have the best fields of any town that I go to and my with my uh U10 daughter so thank you thanks Mike so once you get rid of Mike things got it was either or was all all right we are going to hear this same presentation yeah next Monday night we our joint meeting with the select board so yes it will be Tim will not be here do you think we'll have any numbers by then for get to maybe that's I I don't I don't want to promise anything that but they're actively working on them then yeah we are actively working on them so um yeah we that's why I was like I don't want to commit to it but no no no I mean it's just I know I know I know Tim was working on it with them and trying to get something because you know for the next meeting you know if we have that um obviously that makes it more informed as well as the fact that there as a natural launching point for you to go to the CPC and and ask for the supplemental amount the conversation he's had with activitas was like if we can please please have it by Monday night um so I know that they're trying hard to do that long as they working on what is your schedule to vote the uh articles it would be at the next at at the um uh meeting on the 23rd on Monday 23d so yeah so we can always if if there's I mean you can't vote on this if there's no number so uh then otherwise youd probably we' I'd probably think for the select board and the finance committee that you refrain from making any recommendation as well as the CPC because they're going to be having to hear this after the fact and before you know after the warrant goes to print you know nothing we haven't done before I me that's good get on CPC schedule that's a Lynch yes thank you seriously for your time I apologize how long thank you yeah I would just follow up on Fred suggest because you know with CPC they have to organize it and everything are that close to be able to you know to then get on the schedule and as well as Carolyn's been reaching out trying to know what's going on right now what you'll see when we get into the um into the warrant there's no other items it's just it's just yours so U but that's a great suggestion because that allows them to make some planning and got I'll reach out first thing tomorrow morning thank you thank you have a good night thank you right no pressure I stay on schedule you have two minutes usually I get this treatment the select board meetings like why did you make everything so so so short like we never would have finished that way so but be that as it may so um so we handed out um the draft uh draft warrant I want to emphasize um the uh I I don't have this marked as draft but this is in fact draft so um I got up to about um this is not necessarily the standard I would I would normally like to do but I know Steve wanted to have something so I think I got up to about article six and sort of ran out of steam so uh but enough that I can walk you guys through everything in terms of where we're at so um right now uh it looks like we're about 12 articles uh here uh on the for the special town meeting so um um one thing I want to highlight for you that we it was an article that we had in that we'll um are going to have as a request for both the select board and the finance committee to uh vote on would be to uh amend the um spending limit for the revolving fund for parks and wreck um they were just here so uh it looks like they're going to be um spending more than the 1.5 million that we had um allotted at the um um at the annual town meeting so it it doesn't mean that they're they're countering that with revenues so it doesn't impact our bottom line but still it's kind of something we find ourselves chasing a little bit as they're as they're programmed what do you think they increasing it to I think it's right now it's 1.5 so probably 1.8 I think is what we're looking at at this point so I just you know just where we see this the spending going on and the programs going on at this point so um but we can kind we can go through um go through the warrant um the first thing is uh report of the Shaker Lane School building committee um few weeks back finance committee was part of that presentation I know we have Shaker Lane on as a separate discussion item but uh basically what this is is uh just is a 10-minute report of the committee um that uh will be working on so we have two uh I would note we have two other meetings um between now and special town meeting to get ready for that so that is also going to be a joint meeting with the Shaker Lane School building committee finance committee school committee and select board so um it will be posted as that they're going to be taking place at the um Police Department I should have wrote written those dates dates stands but I think we've already gotten out to you so always pencil those in those are the listening the listening session yeah listening sessions but also too I think we also one of the things we want to do with it Brian is that um you know with um where this is going to be a presentation at town meeting I think they' be looking for feedback from all of the Committees in terms of things that they should be including in the presentation maybe thing you know things to maybe deemphasize things to emphasize more things you want to see more of so um because um you know I think they're trying to make it as as um um balanced the presentation as possible at this point and and don't forget we're very early in this project um you know any of the numbers that we're looking at are basically based on square foot so we'll talk more about it but this is the this is the placeholder for that 10-minute presentation um one of the questions I think either Fred or Steve asked me is whether or not the town moderator would allow for questions to come in after I think that's I think that's something I want to follow up on because doing the presentation without having that time I think might be um I think that I don't know if that would be fair at town meeting to not allow them to ask those questions so but bringing that feedback to the town moderator is is important especially to where we only have a 12 a 12 article um warrant so they also have about his flexibility with 10 minutes I mean this is the biggest project the town has done I think it may warrant more than 10 minutes I think yeah that it's I think that's fair to say so it's sometimes Tim you know he does get a little fixated on on those things but I think this is important that you know these this is the if you're going to make an exception this would be it this would be it so and and I guess I just a general comment that um about how much input the full committees are going to have on this presentation because I don't think I'm the only one who thinks that the um Shaker School building committee went way too far for way too long without involving the full select board full school committee and full fincom and um I mean I think the last meeting was kind of a disaster and i' i' I'd want some assurance that whatever we're presenting at town meeting the full committees and Boards have a chance to have some meaningful input because when we tried to have meaningful input at the last meeting we were basically told it's too late so I know my intention for those two meetings in August is to go over the presentation that first meeting get input from the three boards and then come back in that second meeting with the recommendations yep of the of the town and we have a building committee meeting tomorrow night and I know that I'm going to bring that up when we St talking about those meetings that's my intention thank you yeah I'm you know I mean Brian we can um I'm going to save my comments on that till we get to the item on it so so article two is um if we can go through the rest of the warant article two is my least favorite article to bring back bills of Prior years but um there was a point when the um tenant had left um um the uh had left the Orchard and left um really a mess so um we had U multiple um staff that we hired over the summer to to get rid of that these are the dumpster bills that came with that because this really the project really didn't have a home the bills went to the wrong location and now um once uh they started to chase this down uh then we we realized this was a bill of a prior year that we had to take care of so it's about it's $2,776 40 um item article three is um amending um article 11 from the October 17th special town meeting basically uh this was an authorization at the time of 2.5 million excuse me right and pardon me but you said you're charging it to a you know 72 digit long account what what is that oh that's the that's the neog hill Orchard account so it's going Orchard yeah right right right that's that's and I can make a note of that too um I I can add that that detail that that that's helpful thank you um so the next item is um to um amend a borrowing authorization so this was done um 2.5 million was uh asked for uh for the um the the swer project and there was a reference at the time that um in in this that a massworks grant uh would be utilized to offset this cost we ended up using the 2.5 million for um uh for what they we call non-eligible Mass Works grants so we have to sort of correct this it's a little bit of an administrative thing that we have to fix um but um the money was spent on the project but but funds that aren't other wise uh allowed to be used so I I I have um I'm following up as to what those what what types of things we spent it on and and um just want that'll be forthcoming here so it's really more administrative in nature U but frees us up from being a little too over prescriptive in what we've put together so that that brings us to um article four which we had heard about earlier to from from alitia this was the presentation so basically proposing to strike the prior language and to uh present the new language here um so I had shared this um I sh I sent this out to Tim and um Alicia earlier tonight uh we of course can't put any numbers here because we don't know what those numbers will be as we heard from the earlier presentation but um and then at the bottom I just try to give a little a quick re overview of what uh this change would allow us to do so um this is essentially the so the the 334 is what the town right said that we could short-term borrow for this project pay it off over three years as our extra contribution to CPC for those years now we're not proposing to change that no see that's why I left that number in there because that number would stay the same and then um the other amount would change because that would just be coming from the CPC fund balance okay so okay that's that um Article Five is to add in the schedule d uh permanent employees this is our call Firefighters so um we are in negotiations with our um fire our our full-time firefighters that it's still happening in progress um but we made a determination here um uh the thinking is we just didn't want to hold up our on all folks um and this basically is consistent with um the step process that that we made available for our um our schedule a employees so 2 and 1 half% increases in in Cola and 2 and a half% uh increases um from step to step so this is basically just a little as a catchup on that so for to add scheduled date um the next item this is this is is wh where things get leaner in in the document before you I I I take responsibility for it but that's that's um just again this is this is draft so article 6 is uh to amend Article 4 of the November 1st 2023 special town meeting this set aside $400,000 for um what um the article references is um uh what do we say Professional Services on um with the rehabilitation at 36 King Street so basically that's sort of limited to um architectural OPM services but um we only needed about 300,000 so when we put the budget together for this we um had sort of assumed that the 400,000 would be available to us this basically uh we' be looking to um uh add in for construction as well was it it the the senior center not King Street uh so article four was um so this was uh to be expanded I actually have the article here for for it so it was was a million and a half dollars for design um in the senior center so this was for uh so this article four from the 2023 town meeting is for um it was 400,000 for the renovation of the former Indian Hill um for Professional Services for 36 King Street so we need to do the same thing for the million and a half a design for the senior center Ah that's uh okay that's right that I think that's okay we can we will have that for the next version okay all right we have 13 Artic 13 articles thank you okay all right that's the 1.5 million I think we had limited it yes yes yes okay now that you say that thank well we don't have to do it and eventually it'll come back to free cash and we won't spend it on something MH yeah okay all right thank you that's that's the thank you for that reminder Steve so we will see another article on that same sort of theme that we when we put the monies in it was it was overly prescriptive and this just frees it up so that it could be used for either or so not asking for more money we're just making it a little bit more flexible okay article uh seven this is basically I've added in the uh the template but I can share with you what we're looking at in terms of article if you can hand that down so basically this is something we do on a regular basis I think it's also recommended within the um uh our financial management policy to go through older warrant articles and clear those out um so what we have here is you can see from the available column we basically reached out to all of our departments and said okay these are you know old articles and then there's still remaining balances in them what's available and um with that we would want to take the uh net result of that in this case this is $16,198.73 70 cents that we would then put toward um uh basically other building needs and uh we've done that fairly consistently and what that's done is basically set aside a a pot of money that if for whatever reason um it's hopefully not but that if say a boiler goes in in this building in the middle of winter uh we then have a place to get uh to get larger capital projects um squared away and now that we have a um building uh facilities manager um you know it's I I knew this day would be coming that he's saying well you know have you thought about this have you thought about this and uh so um he's still getting his feet underneath him but we are starting to see $160,000 worth of thought so not yet not yet uh that's if if anything I think the finance committee is learning about me is is just how cheap I am so uh whatever I can do to make this make every dollar account I'm trying so so basically this kind of gives an overview of the different things um that were available the larger one in here is well the it was a high for school Ones high school roof study uh so that was an engineering study and then um there's article 9 high school update that was for security alarm panels that they didn't need the entire I think it was 60,000 that was set aside so basically it's re and then the 76,000 that is for the storm water permit um um so um I think uh that's they had spent through and done the initial study on this and that's available I would also note that um in um the uh there's another 10,000 available for um the bicycle pedestrian master plan we're going to kind of think some more about where to spend that I I just didn't have a spot right now for that um um so we um that that will also that is also going to be available too so uh um just to so but basically this is the scale that we're looking at and reallocating it um and most of it I'd like to be able to put into this you know our building you know is we have a fairly broad definition of of building needs as it comes up so um the seeing the school roof sparked a question how far are we how far out are we from being able to uh use the msba funding for the school roof it's got to be coming up in the so I think this is one of the things in the conversations that that uh I had with we've had with you and Steve about trying to push push that forward there's a separate msba has obviously the big projects they they they provide funding for Shaker Lane no renovation that but they also have sep for projects that include roof Replacements and and um windows and the programs have changed over time but you know this is not an uncommon thing and of course a new roof does allow to um extend the useful life so I think one of the messages that I've heard from both of you is is before we entertain looking at any of the roof replacement projects that we look at what the timing of that is and and have that discussion with the school department regarding whether or not we're going to be adding that to the capital plan but msba tends to move at glacial speed MH so if we need to get on you know on the list or we need to how soon you know it's it's an interesting point because it's even if you were to um you know say okay well we know that maybe it's two years out right why not put in an application potentially so you know so so that we don't start it 2 years after we could have started it that's all right I don't know what the answer is but right and and I think it's and it's also pertinent in terms of um you know the fact that the these are larger dollar projects um and uh often they have to have they have to happen um uh during the summer so um I've been a part of one of those it's um one of the more challenging tasks that I've had in my career where like well maybe we can maybe you know I think the question was asked can we Delay school for a couple weeks think no no we that was that was no that was not an option so um so those those are the yeah that is something we we we certainly are going to look at and I'll try to you know try to message that in my conversation I don't know whether I think we're at like 22 years and it needs to be 25 I mean we're we're right in that close yeah right my concern is that it takes two years to get on the list so if you don't put your paperwork in now we're out at 28 years and 27 years so that's it's it's a good point um article 8 is something similar to that um to to this question something that's closing out and how do we reallocate that so what this is uh this article set aside $50,000 for uh Master planning for the neog hill Orchard uh this is uh just to give you guys the finance committee an update um we put out an RFP for lease um we've answered questions that came in toward the end of last week and we expect to accept rfps for the rent for the rental of um neog Hill Orchard uh on this upcoming Friday so far we haven't received any any uh applications for that I'm not sure what will happen there's no guarantee that we'll receive any but there has been some interest out there um we've there were two separate sets of questions that we answered posted that back up to the website which basically gives those shares those answers with anybody who's pulled the RFP so um we've been you know there there's certainly interest um but uh we'll see where that takes us um we're separately getting ready to potentially engage with um the monies that was for the monies that was provided to us through the the transfer for MPC um so um but uh and it looks like we have a grant for that as well so we may not need to even use that Reserve fund transfer this is a separate SE kind of a separate item but it's also somewhat um related um so this is $50,000 that's available for um that we could repurpose for a more General use under neog if we were or um put into that it could go to the balance for our other building needs um if you remember we um uh we also at requested in the select board and and the finance committee granted a transfer request of about $118,000 for tightening up the buildings that are there so arguably um if we freed up uh the definition here um one of the thoughts that would be we could do a we could basically charge the 18,000 to this 50,000 and then again more monies are then saved for the reserve fund transfer um I think this is a this is really probably a conversation that we probably need to have at that meeting with the select board because I think um when I brought this up with um with Matthew nous he was saying well maybe if we just hold on to the 50 and just say that it's available for other needs and you know potentially so I I that's really up to the finance committee up to the select board I think if anything I just wanted to remove this from the the restraints of a master plan so and make the funds available for some other use which don't it doesn't necessarily have to be neog related uh but you know certainly we we potentially could have some needs there on that front as well so let's discuss this before we get to this yes well it was my recollection that we authorized something in the order of 65 or $70,000 that night right so not just the 18 right yeah so the other thing was the um uh uh assistance from um mapc for sessions yeah I'm sorry for what the sessions they're organizing to get public input like we did with the mbpa okay so that was right so why not why not go for the whole 50 because we won't need that Fred because we actually uh we're able to get a grant for for that so um for the MC we already in our vote we already said if you get a grant if you okay so we okay I didn't realize we got the GR okay does the grant cover the whole you believe it does yes okay so so the only thing basically we're quote on the hook for is the 18 correct that we gave them so okay yeah I don't and that's just that's just I would have them repurpose this 50 if you need more come back for another transfer instead of saying 68 right okay does that make sense yeah I'm I'm okay with that no I'm okay with that I I didn't realize we had the grant my concern was we'd already given up 30% of our total Reserve Fund in August um and if that's why that's partially why I wanted to you know to to put this as available sense you guys until they have a plan I think yeah I have will probably be a naive question but we we voted to give them that money would it I forget where it came from Reser Reser so now they have a covering most of it m and the way why don't we why can it not just get put back in the reserve fund now that we've allocated it we it was so it hasn't been hasn't been used so basically by the vote was to say if you that the finance committee took if if there's a grant then those funds should be so we have we have yet to actually sign a contract or do anything like that that piece of it that first vote we took is never for that yeah I'm hearing reallocate I'm then find way to spend it our second vote was $188,000 to shore up the building in there yeah yeah buildings yeah and now they have 50,000 available should we say repurpose the article so you can take care of the building with that money and don't make that transfer out of the reserve fund if you need more money than the 50 then you can come back to us and say we need more money so it's essentially 50 was for Consulting Services right that's what we have the grand for yeah so this is an entirely different article so this was done at a um I think in May 2nd 2022 so 50,000 was set aside at that time so for the different money oh yes it's a different yeah different bucket of money money coming everywhere I know that's okay that was my get confus yeah I can see Ryan's fingers never leave his hand that's the second time I've heard you say that today I had heard that before but uh so again I just wanted to make it Avail know that it's available and by the way too if you commit the 18 you know that leaves roughly 30,000 that you could still set aside for rather neog building and Facilities so so you're not you know that's that's another option so um you know but I'll you know you you've talked about it it sounds like that's what you want to do but I just it's more just a well if these this these leases something comes back how quickly will that happen well you know that's an interesting point because I think part of what happens with the leases is then it's a conversation with them and what the questions we're getting would the town be willing to invest in this would the town be willing to buy this and this might be a bucket that by the time we actually even have the conversation on Monday you we may be seeing some of those pressure points so you know it's um um so right now barring any changes M I think I'm hearing that we want to pull back our 18 let them use it from there yeah but if there's things that happen in the RFP process right that change that then we can discuss that M right because that's I think that those are the kinds of questions we're getting to say you know would the town be willing to and I think there was you know you know put money into the irrigation system things of that nature and so um and and you know I I don't know what sort of appetite there is for that either to so it's it's it's kind of funny that the problem with the leases is exactly what the the previous study group um had said was going to happen and you know a bunch of people have left that group because they kind of got disgusted with the outcome and so uh I I I don't know I'm not I'm not at all surprised that there haven't been that much interest and the interest is as you said and can the town do X so yeah yeah I'm holding my breath in any quick resolution here right right right it's stuff that's so we kind of okay with yeah pull them back the 18 yeah let him use this 50 and then come back and see us if there's anything else or if things change out of the RFP process right right okay okay do you want to vote on that or not I didn't know no cuz we're going to vote everything things may change by Monday night but we have our consensus so okay y there may be some push back from some select board members but okay that's fine so staying on the theme of the neog Hill Orchard article nine is a request from the Conservation Commission um to uh basically transfer care and control of a portion of lot 107 at the neog hill Orchard no reason they wouldn't take the entire 107 that's so 107 yeah so I don't I didn't bring I didn't bring a map with me but um basically this is um 107 currently is is the is the most southernly uh component of of the orchard it includes the lower Barn um the um it's the former the field that looks down on the the field there's also separate bu yeah there's also a separate building uh that um one of the workers lived in um and and I think there's also another shed that's there that's kind of falling apart maybe I think it may have housed some of the irrigation equipment so what the um this is a followup from an earlier um warrant um warrant article I think it was um I say like five years ago but basically it's anything it's roughly basically south of the buildings um and where the field is is what they'd be looking to get um custody and control over so um this was a presentation they did a presentation at the um select board meeting and select board seemed to look favorably upon the request um it's really it isn't part of the current lease that we would have out nor necessarily anything that we would be conservation restriction oh correct it's so it's just it's a way for them I think to protect this portion of the land it also AB buts the um the neog reservoir which is also conquered um uh water source so um I think that's that's where the logic is so so the the other half I don't know whe that's half 2/3 is just staying in never Neverland well would be you know so I think it's then that becomes part of um you know I as the RFP I think is written to say that the lower Barn is you could be part of the negotiation in terms of oh okay so so you're already including that yeah with okay so but you know and again you don't know what's going to come back at the RFP too you know it it it's fairly Broad in terms of how they might what might come back and what might be proposed so um uh but this at least as a request doesn't I think impede us from doing any of those other things with the Orchard and you know sort of then frees up a rather you know one of the nicer parts of the whole Orchard um to the community protected so um article 10 is to fund uh collective bargaining agreements um so just to provide an update to you we've got U we've there's four unions two of our unions have settled and there's and those amounts were voted on at the annual town meeting that was dispatch and DPW uh what Still Remains outstanding is police and fire um we you know you know we're making you know making progress on that uh but this would be more of a placeholder if we were able to reach agreement um at town meeting um so my sense is the way it would be written will fairly broad without any Amounts is it getting to the point where it'll go to arbitration or it you at this point at this point still hard to say Fred it's just um but you know negotiations are always challenging and we're just um okay you know we're we trying we haven't got to that point yet right that's correct yes um okay uh article 11 is actually a suggestion by our town clerk uh she had found some language she that she was supposed to be providing to me before uh um this meeting but um basically it's a town meeting could give uh the town clerk um the right to just basically fix scribers errors so basically scribers errors are typos or numbering issues um when we approved of say for example the MBTA zoning article there was some you know some numbering that was off and so normally we're only left with the capacity to go back to town meeting and for two3 vote to say that shouldn't have been a c it should have been a d so it's this would potentially allow us to you know give permission to say these are silly little things that you know that do happen that aren't caught that we could give so if the town clerk fixes two or three of these things in a in a bylaw what kind of communication does she make to say I fix these two or three silly little details I think that that's where I would want to see what the actual language is because I think communicating that out would be you know would be important because it can't just be like oh yeah we did it you know in the dark and night it would need I think there would have to be some sort of reporting mechanism and Town Council is okay with giving them that we wanted what what the what the town clerk informs me is that this has been adopted in other in other Massachusetts municipalities and this would be following up on that so you know ultimately when I get to that stage of sharing this with Town Council and getting their perspective on the legality of it um I'm taking the town clerk on on her word that um you know we're we're at that at that point that it it it will be legally acceptable so uh but of course ultimately so we Andrew saying hey we did this in hav uh good he hasn't said that but yeah so and finally is our our loan um uh zoning article that be presented by the the planning board this there um I hope to have this tonight too but uh marn didn't have it ready but basically um one of the elements of this is that it would limit the um number of um grow facilities currently we have one grow facility in town um that's I think that's one of the primary objectives of this so um I I don't really want to speak to any more of that tonight because I just don't have a lot of information on it but um but uh any but the planning board has voted to bring It Forward it's been the formal formal hearing I don't know I don't know what their recommendations or when that schedule is I have again I have sort of counting on Min to give that to me but I have to fill that out so this this is it so it it is not 12 articles but 13 based upon another 1.5 million and you voted on that at last town at the the senior center the 1.5 million I think I think so let's check I'm me that's why don't we keep talking and I'll look that up jer's got a great memory so don't we we have meeting jointly with the select board on the 23rd to make our recommendations on articles so Ryan if September September next Monday next Monday so if you have more language I I will have more language and this is be refined the committee so we can look absolutely absolutely and as I appreciate your intelligence because this is um um yeah again this is this is I I would hope that this would have been brought along but at least you know it keeps the conversation going when we come nothing controversial here right thing would it's good to take it in smaller Chums you can digest it and and I think you'd be better prepared for when we when we meet with the select Bo too with it too so that's that's good as well so yeah so okay all right Shaker Lane yes can I can I speak FKS about this topic your warrants sure go ahead okay so Rob Browns 25 Juniper Road I thank you I know you folks attended a stakeholder meeting about the lake funding I since followed up with some people and an idea has been floated that I'd never heard about and that was creation of a stabilization fund for the lakes and so I suspect that that requires activity with regard to warrant articles creation of such a fund so I just don't know if that's one kind of influential person in town mentioning it to me and whether it's real or whether there's no such concept of of that thing I have not heard anything about a stabilization F okay nobody's I hav't everything okay so I I'll look to follow up probably with the with Jim Dugen just to find out if that's got any Merit okay thank you um actually Rob reminded me there is one other thing I got like some an email in late tonight about some potentially um a transfer of um or or he came in very late but basically affordable housing trust is uh looking to potentially build a house on T to tan Road and so uh this may be looking for approval from town meeting to move forward and and I think maybe even transfer the property to um um a lowincome developer for that so just maybe it'll be 14 on we're we're adding more as opposed to subtracting them so I just wanted to flag that but that came very late so back on this clean Lakes thing um back at one of the meetings there was a um I forget who brought it up but um Westford uh homeowners association on the lake was kicking in some number of dollars is there a homeowners association on the Littleton side that they're the ones that on the the immediate benefactors of the activities of the clean Lakes groups are are any are there any of those kinds of um associations in Littleton that could a Long Lake Association a Long Lake there's a manwan Association yeah so do you want me to speak here there come up so they can hear you on TV so one I'm not a member of the clean Lakes committee but I been attending meetting for two years so I offered what I've heard uh different between like man wanaki uh or quote Forge Pond which Westford calls it Forge pond uh most of the homes around that pond Lake uh go with their property lines directly to the Waterfront right Long Lake has only from the boat ramp going you know for a very very limited whereas the entire area of Lakeshore Drive that serves as as the separation point if you will with regard to homes on the opposite side so as a result there is not a similar homeowners association because there's just four or five homes approximately whereas you have a far more substantial with ability to permit docks because they own property you know right next but a big part of the conversation was around M Wan so my question I guess could be either you know spec Pond or manaan you'd have a number of properties that would benefit uh by specifically said that the forge Pond Association and the westf was paying money towards the pro matching so Forge so Forge Pond yes and I'm trying to present the aspect of because they've got a substantial number of homeowners that have property that that benefit them personally with regard to their waterfront property you don't really have that similar thing with question is does m want to keep you you got money yes so as I apologize yes in fact in fiscal year 25 the monies that are being spent for Lake manani are primarily being sourced from the friends of Forge Pond which is that Homeowner Association representing both Littleton and Westford represents rep yeah homeowners yeah but there's not something similar as understand I understand long L not not a problem thank you appreciate it I'm sorry Ryan to jump in on that's fine that's fine I think we we were all done with the warrant anyway so yeah so shake elain so I had Ryan bring the cost slide from the presentation that we had just to refresh everybody's memory of what's going on with the project um one of the things that is happening my understanding right now was that had a question that I I call The Architects on is there is discussion happening with the school committee but the put it this way the superintendent and the principal and whoever else is representing the schools from the school Building Association to look at the square footage so that 103,000 square ft to minimize that so if you remember from the presentation there was an extra 29,000 Square ft that has been added to the Project based on the educational plan so they are going through that educational plan and seeing what what they can really do to cut down the size of this building and the size of the building comes down the price tag should actually come down also so there is a meeting of the building committee tomorrow night and so I hope to hear that they've met and they've decided to um adjust that number but let's go on the case that they don't um and it's we're building a 103,000 ft building the new option that 3.1 or the 3.2 we're talking a substantial number 114,000 if we go see them at risk which we've done for the past two new buildings that we' done 14 million I don't what did I say oh we can pay for that we pay that of us Reserve fund yeah get it out of the cushions 114 million um like I said we've done the past two buildings that see him at risk I don't know why this one wouldn't be and we should probably there are pros and cons for both and I know Steve Moore has um a preference but he may be shied away from the price tag so um the MS SBA reimbursement um I really didn't like the fact that they put down this range 30 to 35% just put down the number that they think it is and um I think the net for the district on one of those new bills is estimated somewhere right now and this is just an estimate at 85 million for our price day which is the log project this town has ever done um there is no way that we can do this project without a debt exclusion vote so we're be asking a lot from the taxpayer so over the next year and if you remember from that presentation we go to town meeting next fall and ask for the appropriation for this um and then it's some time before we actually start spending it down because you have to appropriate the money before you do things according to the m msba rules so um the timing of that is probably I don't know two years after thatone actually heads somewhere and msba is a reimbursement program so Bill submitted we pay the contractor submit the bill to msba they give us their portion of that bill back which we then use to fund the next and it goes on like that so the way the whole process is it works is you try and minimize the amount you have to borrow up front to use their money instead of using our money as much as as possible the more we can minimize the use of our money the more we minimize the impact on the taxpayer and those construction use I think this presentation to this town meeting which would really be the first time that the town has heard anything about this is going to be um as important as any presentation that's been made to this to so that's why those two meetings in August um we have meet to October sorry say what month those two meetings in October that we're going to have in the joint meetings prior to town meeting are essential that we go through those and make sure that everybody is comfortable with those presentations and what is going to be said because if we don't have buying between the school committee the select board and the finance committee this project goes nowhere so we need to sorry where this is a reimbursement program when they when they sign on and accept it is it a like a contract where it's a guarantee that it's not going to be that this I mean I know they've been around for a while but that they could not be funded or is there any liability that you wouldn't end up getting it for some reason once they they have tons of rules and what they reimburse for um certain percentage of this certain percentage of this um you have to give them a plan up front that says what your Construction budget looks like and they'll that's what they base their number on if you remember on the feasibility study we submitted to them that we're going to spend 700,000 on feasibility study so we submitted that they came back and says you know that's pretty light and you have spend to 1.2 milon that's kind of where my question comes from is like can we submit these for reimbursement and then say oh well they will only they will only reimburse us for that 100,000 so extra 500,000 Jerry's question could they back out of it which you know it's a reasonable question for the most part this program has been around and it is that as long as it's an eligible cost it would then be you the reimbursement would we follow their rules right they'll play B liability is really on our part if we don't submit things properly or cor way they want it okay and that's why we have an owner project manager here with us to ensure that we follow those steps so as we don't become non-compliant and and run the RIS we built the high school with through msba the middle school and did the rehab to Russell Street all with the msba okay we got the full amount that we were expecting on those projects but since those those Early times the approaching has changed they are much more restrictive now than they were back then so they they monitor every aspect of this and they I mean they had to choose the the OPM and the designer we could recommend but it was their choice and keep in mind that mba's end objective on this is to it's not they're trying to maintain as many dollars they have in their own bucket so that they can give it to the next project it's a very competitive program the fact that we were able to get in as soon as we did uh is is great but um as such part of the rules are that it's it's restrictive and they they they they don't want to give any extra money for anything that's outside of the purview of educational of an educational Focus nothing Superfluous from them so I think at the town meeting it's it's critical that we tell people what the tax impact will be now you know whether it's 108 or 114 or 102 or one you know it's orders of magnitude I mean this is not only the biggest project we've ever done it's bigger than kind of all the projects we've ever done combined and so I think we won't be able to say your tax bill will go up exactly by this but I think we can give them a pretty rough order of magnitude and I think it's we're we're obligated to do that and and and I don't know I mean just been talking to people since that meeting I wouldn't I'm not holding breath that the town ends up approving this yeah I agree um I just if I can give a few thoughts and then I I got to run my son's going to kill me um so I I know I didn't attend the meeting but I watched it um I agree with you not I don't know if I'd say the meeting was a disaster if that's the word you use but the way it was run was you know to not be able to ask questions or you know there were minimal questions to Chairman was trying to move the meeting along and he he ended up leaving the meeting early anyway so you know want to allow people to ask questions um just to get the information out there to the public because you know I knew this was coming I think I'm relatively well informed compared to a lot of people especially my friends they all come to me and ask me what's going on with things but I was shocked at the price and you know that's probably my you know maybe I should have been more aware but I was thinking about half the price but that's I I understand that's the cost of new buildings at this point and it's the cost that or it's the price that other towns have been paying for buildings like this um the presentation came across to me as though I'd be curious to know what the building committee wanted but didn't put in their you know in their design it comes across as though whatever they want is is what they're designing whatever they need is what they're designing and I'm wondering if anything was you know say kind of say saying um you know this is going to be a huge project as it is maybe we don't include that um because I mean 100,000 square ft hundred million plus it just you know everybody I've talked to I've tried to talk to anyone who's willing to listen pretty much get laughed at I don't uh you know I'll be very curious to see what the number is as far as what it means to individual homeowners on their tax bill for this project I've heard a number and I if that's the number I I can't imagine this passing you know personally I I I see the need we have to do something with that building we have to you know we 10 years down the line 15 20 years down the line you know who knows where our population's going to be at it's going to be higher than 10,000 we know that we need to support the education in our town but man at this point I just can't see how this passes and I'm not I'm not I'm not saying I'm in favor of it or not I don't know yet I need you know more information but just the people I've talked to around town it's you know not being received well and you know I don't know this is this is the uh I I don't think it's a problem that's unique to our town but things projects like these that are so enormous and have will have so much impact on our town how it's being presented to us at a point in time where we can't make changes the finance committee I mean I know you were you were on the committee right the building committee but you know to meet to present it to us as a whole we might have been able to say you might want to scale back if you want this approved you know it's we need to somehow be able to get these projects to the public much sooner and I know you know I went through this when I was on Park and wreck much to a much much smaller scale but you know we have there's public meetings people can go to them but it's it's just a matter of fact that people don't have time and they don't have they don't put the energy in for the most part to get the information and now we have this huge project that is you know a shock to everybody that I've spoken to anyways so um I guess just answer a couple of your things we had this that general meeting on was a Wednesday night or something I saw the numbers for the first time the Friday before that's that's absurd how like yeah I mean that's so I I hear you I was just as shocked but it is what it is right now and we have a year to make this number manageable to what the town needs and if the town says no the town says no if they are able to downsize it you talked about like 29,000 Square ft or something they were trying to play with how does that affect our approval process in the msba based since they've done everything based on these numbers Ms msba approved or has a a here so it's 70,000 square ft say roughly that is of their project and they have a detailed grid that says that the educational program um that was done by the school department to go along with this says okay prek needs this much space special ed needs this much more space all those needs added up to an extra 29,000 Square fet it goes to msba msba looks at that and says okay we hear you we did didn't allocate anything for prek you have a prek program we would support adding X number of square feed for that project so that's the process that it when we submitted last at the end of August that those three proposals that's what they're doing now at msba they're going through that data and saying okay we can see this we're not going to support this we will support this so can we change the proposal now I thought they said at the meeting we could not no but I thought you said tonight that the um some of the school committee some of the uh they're looking to see whether looking to see if we could reduce it but if we were able to reduce it if they felt that we could reduce it then it has to go back to msba to be approved we couldn't just cut the the square footage because our school says question tomorrow night okay I apologize thank anything yeah I me I think the part of what they you know what the thing that the the non-changing part of it was the the at that point uh the three that the three proposals that were being put forth so um you know nothing's been designed right right so this is just what the Architects right now feel based on the educational program that the school department did up this is the space that you would need to support that and it's a takeoff from the amount of square footage so if you have that amount of square footage this is roughly what we're seeing in others and then it's really the square footage that that Spurs a lot of the cost right right once they get into design and they actually sit down and and start drawing this stuff out they may see some Savings in that and saying oh you know we totally overestimated that mhm hopefully it goes that way not the other way and that won't affect our approval in the program because it's now now it doesn't fit because you're talking about how the guidelines are so strict so now they will they will do what they will support the size of a right now they'll support 70 and if they say you get an extra 10,000 square fet for prek this is that's the number that they will support So 70 is so we just have to know that if we build anything over those guidelines it's on ad dime they won't provide any I'm more wondering if we build under M does it make us not does that lose our eligibility no no okay 70,000 is the cap okay so but um right and and they're not paying 100% right they're paying significantly less because they're they reimburse in the 600ish range mhm and all these numbers are basically $1,000 a square foot so the town's on the hook for a minimum of $400 a square foot plus the $1,000 a square foot over 70,000 or 80,000 oh whatever they approve yeah over whatever they approve so it it gets bigger than the bread box so this isn't necessarily what they've approved I'm sorry this isn't approved very prelimary nothing has been approved or anything just we're approved to this is just right here this is what boxes basically is what msba this is what we're thinking of doing right now that's all it is and and keep in mind as we go from the current building of 62 is th000 to you know a little less than double that of 103 the the folks at the last meeting said we're only gaining 10% more student capacity which it's I mean I understand they're overcrowded now but when you almost double the square footage of the building and you only add 10% of student capacity that's when was the last time you were in the building I say I understand I'm serious when was the last time maybe we should organize a I think so finance committee select board tour of the building because I went through it and they are jammed in that building there's a teachers what used to be a teachers break room that is now three classrooms I I I get it part part of the thing to too Steve is that if I'll be honest I think I think I think I think this is a non-starter for the town to approve and if that's the case we still need to do something for Shaker so I guess what I'm saying is if it's going to fail I'd rather it fail sooner and let us react then let us go two more years into the process and have it fail that's why this presentation is critical yes right but I think the presentation has to be set to we're trying to present to the town but I think we're also gauging from the town is this is this even possible that you're going to P that that you you the town is going to prove it absolutely because I think at that point then we all have to say okay we have a chance or we don't have a chance let's let's try something else Absolut great I totally agree with you excellent excellent I'm really glad to hear that I mean I think my suggestion too is that you you know you also then that you're going to give the town information about what the number is but you also have to give them an explanation of the reason why the current building isn't meeting the standards what they would be getting out of that um and uh you in terms of participating in this program and what that building would look like because you know just as there consequences for the success of this program there are also consequences for the failure of what this would be in terms of you know about you know it's not like you just get right back in the mspq uh with it so there you know so either either way there are consequences um that are that are serious and significant absolutely look I was in Winchester when they had downsized in enrollment they sold you know two of their six elementary schools and then enrollment came right back up and they went to portables for a while you know and I and I think you know to to Mike's point I remember when we did the what seemed like whopping 4.4 million Rena on Shaker I don't even want to guess how long ago that was it's seems like it was not that long ago but the 2001 renovation yeah yeah yeah and but it was 4.4 million you know to add some classrooms and I and you know I think we I thought okay new Shaker 30 million oh my God maybe it's 40 million but that's 114 it's just yeah yeah it's just I I think that um I I think you just have to let the process play itself out I mean I I I almost I one of the things is if this with this proposal one of the things I was watch and I was participating in being at home but you know in the reaction was it it is it's a very significant number at $110 million but I would tell you that if the way I was thinking of it was that if if anyone looked at that and looked at it favorable you know on like seeing it that number for the first time that would also be the first time that ever happened at any public meeting ever you know because it's it's a shocking number right you know so so your reaction is is is complet complely understandable but it it's also too is um you know you could go back set back the you know the um the time warp I mean if you said to the city of Newton that Newton North was going to cost more than 200 million back at that time I think that that was shocking to think that that a school could cost that much you know and uh it's just um some of this is you know it's a little bit where the marketplace is so I think it just I I all I'm saying is just keep an open mind as you enter the process because um you know if if if you lose the opportunity what MSB the msba process offers it's um you know the cost could be fully on our dime and that's that's a that's a consequence too so so that the other thing that if we do start to move forward with this project which it's some way we we have to because something needs to be done it's up to us to try minimize that impact of the taxpayer as much as possible of course now is putting a million dollars into the stabilization fund for this building going to make a dent in it probably not but it it's going to do something now is is reducing the amount we're going to borrow for it better than maybe holding it off accumulating that money and using it like the debt stabilization account where we're taking inside the levy money and paying The Debt Service a little e each year we've been doing that for the past 10 years on the debt we have now people don't even realize it but we're saving like 17 18 cents per year on the tax rate that's that's real money to to somebody so it's figuring out what's what's the best bang for the buck and and we need to to make sure that we've thought of everything we possibly can between now and next fall to say okay taxpayer this is what you're going to be on the hook for and these are the steps we're taking to minimize that as much as possible right and and paying paying debt insid Levy is awesome but you know there were when we did that with the high school there was definitely I'm not saying paying the project inside the levy I'm saying just like we're doing the debt exclusion stabilization account we're taking inside the levy money in paying the excluded Debt Service that the taxpayer is supposed to to pick up right right that's what I'm saying is that a better solution than putting a million dollars into the kitty and seeing no return for it yeah you know that's but we thought last year was hard we have a year I basically we have a year from this fall that's it there's going to be a lot happening with it you know in terms of Education Outreach so you know I just EMP asiz this is really the be you know for the town and the Outreach side of things this is the beginning of that process not the end absolutely and as much as we can and you know to to make sure that that this committee stays on top of things every meeting that we have I will give an update of what's happening with the project but I know we should be thinking of join meetings with the select board so we all hear the same stuff every once in a while and at least maybe once a month even get the OPM in to talk about the project and talk what's going on I realistic paying him so realistically if this goes forward there aren't going to be any kids in the new building for four years real four maybe five years yeah what I'm disappointed in in this whole process is I I heard nothing about how we're going to bridge where we are to where we're going I mean well supposedly we have this new educational plan to bring Shaker Lane into the 21st century so nothing's going to happen for 5 years to bring us into the 21st century to Brian's Point um temporary classrooms were fine for acting while they got ready to build the huge new school they have up there to alleviate the crowding in the two smaller schools that they did away with I heard nothing about that the school sitting on all sorts of money they could bring in a couple of classrooms they could put their prek program out there free up a couple of classrooms give them some Elbow Room do some of the extra I didn't hear any of that it was all wo was me wo was me give me $100 million and we're going to have this wonderful school at the end of the rainbow you know give me give me something that says you're doing something for the kids over the next 5 years okay I mean I I great to me that that bothered me more more than anything so and and maybe I'm overreacting but you know if it's really that crowded and that's the issue you can alleviate it tomorrow yep okay any other discussion Shan good budget FY 26 okay before I take that in I want to give to CH because I did find that we on article 21 uh from the annual town meeting uh we actually did approve the 1.5 million and expanding back down to 12 articles so back down to 12 articles going up going down here this is so Jerry thank you for that thank that reminder don't mess with Jerry having stja Vu I'm like wait a minute yeah no well I didn't remember it either they alsoa didn't put it in so so but thank you thank you for that so um I appreciate that uh so this is uh just the schedule that we have it's part of our um updated um financial management policy so uh first pieces of this is uh the financial projections um that uh for for fiveyear we'll be presenting a fiveyear and then working on the budget message so you know we're starting to have some of those preliminary conversations um now internally about um what the 5year projection is and what our FY 26 projection will look like that will help inform uh what the budget message should be so um we are going to be making some more progress on that I don't think we're going to be ready to present anything to you uh at the Joint meeting this upcoming Monday but uh probably soon thereafter you so may the meeting after that maybe probably yeah I would think by then absolutely and when's that meeting uh let's see it would be after the two weeks after the 23rd so we're looking at uh it would be October 7th I think we're looking at so is that a joint meeting or is that probably we could make it a joint meeting um yeah we probably could make it a joint meeting I I think suggestion about the joint meetings is a really good one because then I think everybody is starting to hear these things at the same time and I think that you know just as we did our budget updates it's been I I don't know I I don't know what the finance committee thinks but I think it's it's it's it's good when when the same when this select board's hearing message finance committee Vice but but but also too they're hearing from you too and I think that I just I think that's a very valid I just never thought it worked where we were Tuesday night they were a Monday night do you give the stuff to the finance committee before you give it to the select board and some select boards didn't like that and then we're hearing things the week after that and yeah different questions come up each time then you got to go back inform right right meeting together portion of the meeting is the first article so we don't have to sit I will not they'll always do that I will not be here on the good stff yeah but we can you know again that's that's we will communicate so the other pieces with it is then um around the end of October um the budget documents are due after the initial letter is sent out to um all of our department heads um and then October and November finance committee starts meeting with the indep individual departments um you know I think that um it's a question how you guys want to structure that I think last year was pretty effective where you every the different members had different responsibilities to meet with different department heads I can tell you from my perspective seeing that it's very it's very helpful having um uh having someone come back to you it's got that knowledge and said okay you were here last year and you know Brian you were doing the police department so okay have that conversation again it provides a certain continuity to to it so I think that that that helps on both sides Le so that's helpful um and then um so the school committee a goal is to have their budget submitted by the first part of the guideline we give them would be from uh in terms of their budget directive is also would also be taking place on that letter um then uh we submit the annual budget report in the December January time frame I believe last year we did it right uh between the week before between Christmas and New Year's uh February um and April we um you know we then probably start having more of our joint joint budget meetings um uh for that we we typically have I what we've done the past couple years at least since I've been here as to sort of piggyback some of those mon Monday meetings make those joint meetings as well as have our uh Super Saturday session um over at the library um to go through any remaining questions our annual town meeting will be um it it does say the first Tuesday in May but I think we Yes actually that is right that is the it would be the first Tuesday in May right because we changed uh changed from Monday uh so and then um we're back at it again where the financial policy working group would be um U meeting again making any recommended changes at that time so um so yeah that that's again that's the overall schedule I think um you know things are things are going well with the finance team we're we're meeting regularly we're aiming for tax classification um I can't remember the specific date but we have that set up uh we used to do that as two separate meetings um but now um we convinced the board to just have it as one because a lot of times we get to the second meeting like what do we talk about two weeks ago so this this provides for convenience and at this point Ryan how do you feel about the October 31st date I mean we're already sort of yeah so that I think that that may get bumped a little bit into November but shouldn't change shouldn't impact our overall schedule that much so um so yes uh so again feeling pretty good where we are o overall um but uh we'll be able to you know be engaging with you some more um with that projection uh probably again at our meeting uh the first meeting in October in the seventh 10 okay any questions Noe nope uh we have one last thing we have minutes I sent out this afternoon hope everybody had a chance to look at them these are from our joint sessions with the select board August 12th I wrote it down if I could find the agenda August 12th and 24th if not we can just hold off till next meeting if that's okay well I wasn't at the first one so I can't vote on that when we hold off then people I also sent out the treasures cash report um something that's required from our um investment policy for the town uh so just take a look at it there any questions just get them to me and I can funnel them off to uh Robin I looked at it and uh I don't have any issues with it as of June 30th we had I think it was $129 million in the bank which is up significantly from just a few years ago MH so that's always a factor of borrowing too you sitting on money that you've borrowed that you haven't expended yet so all right everybody good we'll do the minutes next meeting um next meeting jointly is Monday night with the select board at the library 6:30 6:30 correct yeah 6:30 and we'll have know the review of the warrant and recommendations as well as uh you'll be seeing um Alicia will not be here but it will be Tim providing that presentation right okay and so then our next meeting would normally be on the eth but maybe we move it to the 7th and Joint yeah the seventh would probably be a joint meeting with the stock board again yeah okay to go over the forecast so then we wouldn't then meet again on theend just just try we have two join meetings in October so if we need to cover something with the select board prior to town meeting we could do it at that second meeting and we can minutes anything we can always that on okay everybody good have motion to adjourn motion to adjourn second second all in favor I I thank you