okay it's the top of the hour so I'd like to open uh the meeting for the neog hill Orchard work group for May 22nd um we have a quorum do we need to do we don't need to do roll call because we don't have anybody on there right so okay so we have um we're here um so the first item on the agenda is review and vote on the minutes of April 10th 2024 and I know Matthew are beer for doing these I A Little Help from Google any comments no not all right I'll entertain a motion to accept I make a motion to accept the minutes for what was the date that uh 410 41024 Second second okay all in favor I I and again thank you Matthew that was a tough one um so next we have a presentation of uh Scott and Frank mat and um Unfortunately they can't make it they have a family obligation but I'll I'll thr you in and talk a little bit because I had a conversation with both of them so I think we got left in a very uh difficult position with the town meeting boat um where we essentially have a very rundown Orchard with very rundown buildings um with to get up and running in my estimation it's going to cost more than anybody's going to want to put into rented land the RFI showed us that um and the town somehow thinks that it's going to hold 53 acres and two two barns and a house without ever putting any money into it so it didn't seem realistic but the maans for those of you who don't know have been farming in Littleton the same family for longer than there's been in Littleton that land was literally granted to by the king of inguin we were still a colony they've been very successful at it so I had a discussion with I'm friendly with Scotty and we had a discussion and I asked him if he'd be interested in under what conditions he said he would be interested uh prefer to purchase it um but he could talk rental and couple things we talked about to keep in mind for future meetings are uh they would be more inclined to rent that land if um the town were to take the trees out which I think is about1 to $200,000 investment um and I think Will made a point in somewhere along the line and said look we can charge them rent or we can take it out and get better applicants in there you know I mean and we can not charge them rent and and get somebody in there who may not know how to do it or we can take it out and have more applicants to come in MA are interested in Hay some apples and some potential vegetables so they'll be in at a later date they understand uh that it would have to go to RF uh to what are we calling rfr RFP RFP rfps now um they understand it would have to go to an RFP but they are potentially interested um one of the benefits one of the reason I talked to Scotty because they're in town they've got equipment and a set up within driving distance of the orchard the only other person who will Who I think is precluded from doing that and his cousin Danny who last I spoke to me had no interest in doing that so I think you will probably hear from Scotty at a future meeting and I think they'd like to make a presentation and have a discussion I would suggest that we're going to go through an or through a a a Rental process we have two things we need to address I think the 100e lease and I know Amy you wanted to say something about this makes some sense uh because there's 30 years isn't a long time to make back your investment on what it's going to cost to get that Orchard up and running uh I was actually impressed that two guys in their 20s were're interested in a 100-year lease I think that says a lot for them and we do have an issue where the assessor it seems to still be under the impression that she's supposed to charge folks um the the tax rate for any leasing uh I've sent her back an argument against that and why she doesn't I have not heard that but I think we need to resolve those two issues could we do a 100-year Le because that might make it more worthwhile for people to consider leasing it and we do if you lease it are they going to get charge 61a rates and the building rates for the barn or things like that so I would suggest that we do have um a couple things if we're going to explore leasing that those are two things we need to address Amy I know you had some thoughts on on this as well yeah so I think taking all the first step we need to do is remove all the trees off the property since they're all just dead anyways um but I don't know if I think it's going to be more than a quarter million dollars because it also needs to be dumped and then we need to put like compost in all those divots um so I think the it's going to cost much more than that um I think if anyone wants to lease it they're going to want M are going to want the house and the barn so we're talking about redoing the house at um prevailing wage which is going to cost a ton of money and fixing up the barn which is also going to cost a lot of money at prevailing wage um so I think we're you know I think we're going to need to talk about an override at some point in this process once we kind of understand like what they're going to want what they're going to need we're going to have to go out and just do get bids on getting this work done um you know it's going to cost the town a lot of money um so they're interested and just to make sure I'm understanding they're interested in doing hay or and or apples so and perhaps in the future they would prefer to buy it um so I do know they want to do hay what they did talk about and they're primarily interested in that large block of land and I can't keep the road name straight um uh the one without the either buildings on it the larger block they are interest in that they Scotty and again this is preliminary just discussions between us at the picnic table on my porch um leaving putting a couple rows of apples in along the road largely for the neighbors but all tree fruit but he told me you know SC he said I can get a whole bin of apples delivered perfect apples delivered to the Farm Stand stand for 200 bucks from neighborhood orch why would I grow uh he talked about maybe some vegetable beds up by the barn some asparagus and that sort of thing so there's some potential interest so but is he only interested if he can get a 100y year lease well he I we'd have to I mean that's for further discussion originally he was talking a 100-year lease and then he said well I might be more open if the town took trees up for me because that's a large expense so it's you know it's not complicated algebra you know more money he has to put into it the more time he's going to want to hold on to the land to get a return on his investment and he wants to use he's got a full setup here but he wants the house for what purpose well he said if the house were sale he'd buy it largely for labor housing there's a shortage of Labor housing around here and they do they do have Labor uh that they bring in um but I don't think he's interested in the house for a lease he would be interested in the upper bar for lease and potentially the lower Barn though um I I was over who the people who bought the Morrison's house the I of the Sullivans I'm trying to pull out which is right across from there I would not want to have to back a hay truck into that Barn that's a tough road um but that's that's up to them so I I I told him you know let me know and we'll set up another time for you to come in and talk about it and again he does know that we can't just do it with him it's got to go to um it's got to go out to RFB but he did want to talk to people and the advantage I saw and why I approached him is you know anybody else is going to have to truck their their equipment in he doesn't with that said I also some neighbors aren going to like the fact that we're pulling the trees out and it's going to be hay and might catch fire and frankly a lot of other BS I heard at the town meeting that we're gonna have to deal with I think there's a precedence that's been set at 99 years within the commonweal I you take 99 I think we said 99 so just for some people that's that's more common um I would prefer to go before we talk also about ripping out trees which I do believe I'm in support of that there's a function of ripping out the trees and stumping without having to remove the stump so I would rather go to an RFP see who's interested in a lease and see because there may be an opportunity to grow within the lane of where the old trees are instead of having to dump it all so I guess that's part of the future negotiations to see obviously I believe we do have to take out the vast majority of the trees but there's a different level of as Amy said if you to stump them you have to have soil to refill them and get them going again and that's the discussion point with them on hey and whether they're willing to give up that if they hey they we need to stump that you would correct but there may be from there may be other people out there that may have a different use within the lanes yeah in my opinion that the two lowest cost uses of that would be hay or grazing livestock yeah and the light grazing livestock you'd have to put in fencing which does come at a cost as well and a not a small yeah and there would be aesthetic issues I guess with that what's that aesthetic issues with with the fening I mean honestly if anybody is going to run even an orchard or vegetable place there's so many freaking deer up there they there's have to be some fencing any I think we're all used to looking can I ask how many trees are on the property you know 58 5,000 trees 500 stone fruit that's oh wow what there was so over time some have met their demise I was under the impression we had to get rid of the trees or at least some of the trees anyway because of the disease we should but see that disease is not spreading because it only lives on viable the blight only goes to other viable trees well unfortunately we do have neighbors who have viable trees the Sullivans I went there it's not commercial um but they have eight trees and from what I could see initially at this time of year they were being affected by well they they've been affected for years right and they still seem relatively viable but I mean when we get to the maintenance one of the things that particular blight only lives on certain trees as well so there's some that it doesn't there are multiple insect pests you know and and diseases to um they come from these um there's a statute on the book for commercial Orchard that department of B can actually come in and force a neglected owner to clean out the trees when it's affecting a commercial Orchard I did it a few times when I ran that program and it's more than just one blade it's multiple insect and diseases and um you know the solvin have about eight trees it's not commercial but at some point it the town has a responsibility not to create a nuisance for the neighbors and we're past that so and I would suggest we discuss that under the maintenance contract so yeah so just to go back to his he wants the house for labor housing if he can purchase it but we can't sell it so he doesn't want to rent it because there's too much money has to go and fix it if we fixed it if the town spent the money a prevailing wage to fix it would he take it I think you'd have to discuss rates and that sort of thing with him I mean he everybody needs labor housing yeah so I mean at some at some point we you know the price will be right and he will take it right if he even has to fix it yeah right I mean there's going to be some some price where he will take it he will buy it and he'll think it up himself yeah I mean if if we can sell it he would buy it at a certain price he would buy it tomorrow right oh he he would use it already even if he didn't have the rest if he could buy it and began the price obviously he would fix it up and use it for labor Hub but I want to go back to the um to Amy your sort of your discussion about the override I'm just um so we're you know we're assuming that we would have to the town would have to do all the work on the on the on the buildings if we leased it um which is I think a valid assumption I'm just thinking through so apart from the getting taking the trees out um and I don't know if that requires but like I'm just trying to think like what's the lowest bar the lowest bar would be taking the trees out for hay fix someone who's not interested in some of the barns so you wouldn't have to fix them up well or let's say let's say fixing up the upper Barn which is not in not in terrible shape right Min and selling the house right that would be probably the lowest cost way to get to and and leasing the rest of the land that would be the lowest cost way of having the town get out of this and you could sell the house and use the proceeds to dump it into the land the barn I think yeah okay yeah I mean we already have a developer circling so we can sell to him a developer yeah yeah but I don't no I don't want to I mean yeah I don't think that's conversation the okay so that's a different convers I would rather try to keep it like do something related to agriculture like selling it to a farmer for labor housing would be the perfect solution he doesn't want to put the money he doesn't want to then we have to put the money into it the town do to spend the money into it then we have to sell it okay and then the conation becomes well do you want to spend the money or do you want to developer to turn it into conducts and then that's a different conversation at Town team well you know what are the mechanisms we have in order to enforce such a you know historical preservation restri not not zoning and historical preservation restrictions or other mechanisms so I think the I think what I'm like what I'm hearing is like a multiple year process if we were first to find out who's interested find out what they're interested in then do what they say they're interested in and then find out whether we can sell you know and then get the deed restriction at some point in that process and then potentially sell it I mean that's we still need to go back to and I do think we need to come up with a a shorter term set of you know goals I think the Streamline of that go right right to an RFP we've already done it before see what's out there in terms of leases what they want and then simultaneously go ahead and have one of those meetings with ma is it PC I would rather they run simultaneously we're doing seeing what the interest is and then all from the town but also see what the interest is from hopefully that consumer that would like to go ahead and potentially lease yeah so I guess the concern is if like you know the ma Scott mson Has Come forward and he has said I want to HTE it then there's no point in having any Community involvement or conversations because he's the only one that can viably manage the property at this point like he's you don't know that though we haven't gone to an RFP there could be people that could people that did not yeah I mean the m i mean didn't respond to our RFI and yet here he is so theoretically there could be others like him yeah can we talk about and back up and talk about that process in terms of how quickly with your experience Karen do you think we could streamline an RFP to get that out from a lease perspective yeah and I think so for the record I think we've jumped ahead to agenda item four which is fine it almost sounded to me like what we were talking about is more another RFI but for leasing let's find out who's interested in Leasing and under what circumstances um because if we go out to bid for a lease then I think we have to have a certain set of but you still have the people that are still waiting in the wings that are not going to do the RFI and still waiting for the RFP so we're wasting another six months I mean potentially you could call it wasting I would say that folks who decide that they're not going to play the game by the rules there's no rule you don't have to do an RFI there are there is a within the industry if you want to have any sway on the RFP and if you want to be if you want to you know if you want to know what's happening and you want folks to understand that you're interested so that you can have a seat at the table you respond to the RFI I understand that you know some folks think that holding their cards close to their vest or whatever is is a better idea and certainly that's one approach um and my industry is not farming but in my industry you do not fail to respond to an RFI because that's your chance to influence what happens with the RFB there are people who legitimately don't want to put their business plan out there unless they with that said I like the RFI because Frank we put out rfps for leases before and failed miserably we learned a lot from the RFI did when we thought we could sell it so I see some value in it um if we wanted to do more than a 30-year lease that's another town meeting boat I think selling the houses too right still has to be Surplus property actually not necessarily so how would this RFI be different from the one we just put out if we another RFI really would what except the term I think it would be responding to the town meing the expressed desires at town meeting to try again so we would be saying this is specifically for a lease this is potentially for 99 years this does does or doesn't include the house for example I'm just I'm trying to figure out what do we gain by doing another RFI I guess I mean it's a fair question I'm not sure we gain anything by doing any of this we've done it three times right with you we've done it three times I voted for the other guy right and yes we had one response it didn't work out yes right and so it just seems like wasting time and like a feudal effort the reality is the majority of people who showed up wanted us to be have the legal authority to sell the Orchard and have an RFP for sale because putting the orchard in the hands of a farmer and letting them do what Farmers know how to do right is really the best Market mechanism for making that Orchard Thrive like giving what I don't understand is like PE like people don't like the board Selman running the orchard but what they did is gave it right back to the B left to manage and they don't know how so there's just like this like circular confusion I don't think sure it's a little bit like the whole popular versus wife Charle College it didn't do Hillary Clinton any good in 2016 it didn't do us any good that we had a majority of people at town meeting either you know I have to say I lot of people approached um some of us individually after town meeting and said oh wow we voted the wrong way we didn't quite understand and we've been doing this for three years but a lot of towns people just hopped on literally two weeks prior and didn't quite understand the ramifications of what we were trying to do in several voice the fact that if the vote were to be retaken a whole bunch of people would have been all for selling because as Amy has said you know your your Nostalgia cannot run a farm doesn't and exactly giving it back to and this is nothing against the current Board of Select but it's exactly giving the power back to you yeah and they don't have the time they have resources on the capacity we've talked about a thousand times um I think the additional issue is you know we have a property that's deteriorating every day um and you know going if like we have a lease and we say we want it for 100 years we go back to town meeting and let's say they don't want it because they really want it to be sold because they don't want to incur all the costs then we have to go back to town the year again for an RP for a sale like it just kind of goes on so what are you suggesting I think we just go right back to town meeting and ask for the permission to be able to sell the property which is what the majority of people want and if the M are really interested in purchasing that's awesome they can apply you know and everyone across the road is gonna get hey um you know because like we kind of have someone I mean I I wish I could say I respected the V at town meeting I don't I think it was really shortsighted do feel like we need to honor it though I mean we could have prevailed at town meeting voted to sell it and have them come back in September to bring it back and say no anyway I'm not going to argue that point too long that can still happen what's that that can still happen right so I'm not going to argue it too long I agree with you it was a stupid vote there's a lot of foolish comments about the the the myth of imper petu and trying to keep the apple blossoms going and all this other stuff but if the vote was the vote well I think um it was so close if there was a Littleton farmer who was interested and had the stated interest and we had some you know uh purchase and sale or other document a letter of intent and we went to town meeting and said this is we're going to sell it now because we have done the research on how much it's going to cost to not sell it it's going to cost and even if we sell it it's going to cost a million dollars and if we don't sell it it's going to cost us three million in the next three years and we can do that research I'm sure we can come up with some legitimate prices I think that that vote would go the other way and then maybe that is the right thing to do maybe we need to do a special ask for a special town meeting to to to get this going like because we cannot wait any longer it's just costing us money yeah and I think so just to kind of back it up a little bit so this is an ad hoc um committee so I feel like and I know I'm jumping head like we should have that board of Select joint board select and meeting because I feel like they need to be giving us the direction like it just seems I don't it's like out of our getting out of our lane to kind of make that decision well I mean I think it's it's our responsibility to ADV and I think the board of Selectmen has been very clear about taking our advice and like respecting our advice and they that's why they want to have this joint meeting you brings us around to forc right discussion yeah and I have heard some some comments attributed to to select board members that you know we should just hire a farmer and let them run it and you it's not going to work you know right which is why we need to we need to all get together in the same room and talk about it together I think it and I don't know how worse the other select members are in terms of the financial ramifications just like what we just talked about a few minutes ago this is what we're looking at if we do X this is how much it's going to cost and I think that those numbers speak volumes so that if we could have that for the joint meeting be like take the trees out or this happens we well so the tree removing the trees is a price that we've Quantified but I think fixing up the house is one that's just a vague hand Wy thing I don't know how to get a number on that um we might want to get bits for the trees because I mean we took it out of the um land vest appraisal and they didn't address the issue of stumping and I assume it includes stumping but yeah we should have something that kind of like broken down well the fellow that did the work before when we did the pruning and that he's the one did the Shirley Orchard when they took all the trees out the fell that's already worked for us for the committee yeah's cleared out a couple orchards in the last couple years too so yeah I OB service people we can call um I mean can we ask Ryan to put out a viid to get cost for that yeah I think I mean it seems like it's seeming more and more likely we're going to need to do it doesn't it yeah I think You' want to think of what Fields you're going I would break it downi croppings it's not going to be great for H which one isn't going to be great the top the largest the one one the buildings are falling down up in the field so you've got a lot of outcroppings of rock up there but wouldn't we want to remove the trees because they're dead because someone could plant something else there you don't have to St them though there may there may be someone as I said that can Farm in between I don't think so but is worth a shot mat did indicate that that was a field they wanted to pay so not sure when they walked Walked I will I will um well so how do we so let's let's I mean I think that would be a good step is is if we do want to get a bid for that how do we determine how do we determine what what we want to remove do we ask the MTH what they want to keep as far as trees and which Fields they want or do we just go and say what would it cost to remove all the trees from each of the fields yeah I think we we can parcel it out what it's going to cost to remove all of them but they can certainly go they're going to give you a per acre price yeah what you need to do is when it goes to bid to ask them whether it is whether it does involve stumping and can they grind it in place is it getting hauled off these are all the conversations we had two years ago and a year ago Sam's got a bunch of free time yeah will you you look like you have something to say um just Vermont land clearing he's done a number of orchards up in Vermont and he was working down on the cape this winter um that's what he does is he okay he takes stumps and remove and I think so because he's turning the orchards in the agricultural field so I think he's pretty well versed in do we need to remove the wood depends on what the the use is whether you're grinding in place or it has to get removed here again it depends on what the future uses yeah Ian I imagine they'll chip it and that might be what they used to fill in the divots for now so well I don't know if that's going to be great for vegetables later on so if we were to remove the trees but not grind them and just leave the stumps in place or leave them or grind them down into ch chips and make the chips in place when we got bids for pruning it was a huge um difference between the low bid and the high bid and what we had to drill down into is did it include removal did it include all of that at one point we thought that we would just ourselves take all that brush and move it and burn it and we tried that and it just it was just too much so I would myself I would go for a bid that's removal everything getting rid of everything so we have the high number I think we need to plan on on taking the stumps out because I mean Sarah talked about the rock the trees aren't where the rock are the trees are where the soil are and that's what people are going to want right and they're going to want the flexibility not to I mean we can wait and see but or get two prices but I think ultimately we want to take those stumps out I'm sure we could get like a remove them and and stump it or you know just stump it and ship it right we can get prices for those different things and they can break it up yeah yeah and um just because um we were the initial folks on the group um when we went out to RFP to get quotes for pruning we got quotes like the people who did it it was like maybe less than 30,000 but like the profession like the people who had like lots of people lots of gear and lots of trucks like they were like a $100,000 they were more than that and they were just pruning just for so I think tree removal is probably a little bit more straightforward than pruning I mean it's a bulldozer not you know you don't need to know where to cut you just did and they just did that one top but I I still think we should go for the high number so we know it shouldn't be more than this as opposed to you know we get a bid for 300,000 and then that doesn't include anything I think we should just yeah I agree get the price for we do that also us as to prioritizing what trees to take out that you can budget for a certain amount we can clear a certain number of acres and it's cleared up and done ready you know ready for hay yeah like this field at least would be ready for hay well I mean they're still going to do more for hay but that's the biggest hurle I mean you're still going to need to remove all that vegetation replant yeah and that would help speed up the timeline as well for anybody who's looking to come in and even I think it shows and it shows a you know putting our best foot forward as far as coming into compliance with the APR where even if it's you know two or three acres or something but you have a viable crop that's growing then the brought hypothetically if you took the brothers that were going to do the trees were they doing those in pots or were they putting them in the ground pot so you wouldn't have to stump if you had a candidate like that you can remove the trees but you wouldn't have to stump but they were only interested in the purchase to do what what would you be doing but now the fact that they know that's that's what I'm curious if all the people that had interest originally in the RFI we have the opportunity to go back to all of those 15 or so and ask them you've seen what the town vote is what what is your interest in potentially leasing I think that's the first question for us to know are there some of the original candidates that now that they didn't get what they wanted first was to purchase are they willing to lease just as a just and under what conditions just ask them I I think that we'd be doing a disservice by not going back to those 15 asking the same question but we do need to ask them the conditions because I i' question the business capabilities of anybody who said sure we'll lease it we'll take on all the cost I might come back and say okay you fix up the barn and you take the trees out and I'll take it on y but I think you have people that are very vested they'd walk the property they'd walk the buildings they know what they're getting into to ask those 15 would you consider a and under what conditions yeah the other thing is we don't know what the rent would be for that property which would be a factor in and so that would only really happen in negotiation so how are they going to know that until they get picked right because there's so many different factors into what they would want or what they wouldn't want and what kind of thing we do so it's like will need to settle that issue with the assessor before we go to these folks but if we settle that issue with the assessor I think the rent is part of the negotiation yeah I agree I think like we we are flexible enough on that rent we have not been getting rent on that house for 30 years or 25 whatever like you know the fact that we don't make you know $1,900 a month or $2,000 a month on it for the next 30 years that's not going to break the budget of Littleton you know spending $10 million to picks up the Ard is going to be much harder price to pay so I think I think that is a negotiable item on I would agree um but to go back to the I think you know we're sort of still on the joint meeting I think that the you know finding the cost to remove the trees is great I think a big cost is the house and um if we need if we want to present a real scenario you know what do we say you know I I I wouldn't ask a contractor to give us a b on fixing that up we'd have no idea what anybody would be interested in doing with it right they may want to split it up into two or three units right bulldo it what's up they might bulldoze it I mean sure yeah it would be cheaper for the town than not the down I don't know you know we we've walked through that and I think the bones of that house are still good it's cosmetically a bomb but the bones are still really good on that house y for sure so I it's a bulldozer yeah I don't either I depend on the buyer they may have other uses where they can make more money off of I don't think it's a a function of the house being salvageable and where can they make the most money the highest and best use would obviously be yeah the reason that we we wanted to bring the house into APR was because we didn't think that it was really possible to run a farm without a house so can it's just less likely the barn we absolutely need with the APR right right but I mean are we we're we're talking about well if we sold the house then we could I mean are we walking back from that position are we saying that that's still the case and we'd be hurting our chances of selling in the future or or leasing in the future because now the house is gone if we don't keep the house with the with the land I think it's becomes a less viable Farm in the future but we've been put in a corner yeah no I think that's true too I just my point is that we need to make sure that that's made clear in the joint meeting so that that doesn't get lost in the noise of you know how much would it cost and least you know deed restrictions it's going to make all our future options narrower yeah but I think one of the reasons one of the many reasons why we like went to the sale option is because we had this conversation so many times starting 2021 it's like well what do you do with the house do you make it like multif family do you make it for a single family do you make it worker housing like so in the town can't decide right the person who's farming makes that decision so you're going to guess about what some future tenant may do in the future and we could be spending money on something they don't want that they are then going to come ask us to undo because it is an asset of the town and they are not going to do the work right but if we sell it we don't do anything with it and we can't do anything with it and neither can anybody else who Farms that land is it required to go to town to sell the house or is that you said you didn't think we had to unrestricted is that the select board could make that determination since it's not an APR it's it's under the care custody and control of Select it's unrestricted I under any restriction right now right that's correct it's just owned by the town neither is the upper Bond yeah and think I think if we wanted to do a 30-year lease I think we could do that without town meeting as well I believe so yeah so I think the only reason we'd go back to town meting for lease is to extend the term right yeah and then just to kind of like streamline like if we were going to do an RFP sorry an yeah RFP release we would write it exclusively for Scott mat to streamline the process right if you want a doc you basically write it to be look like a do we still need to go facto yes Legally Legally no but like yeah we can do that I I mean I brought Scott Ford as a as a potentially viable candidate not as oh it's going to go to Scott yeah you know I do think he's got a leg up on a lot of other folks in some ways but you never know till he put it out there there is the 15 other people that what's there is the 15 other people that have replied to the RFI that's our market research so yeah they cting along those yeah the lines of that is there a way that we can reach out with that reach out to them prior to the meeting with the select board and it has to be same questions to all of those 15 to see if we get any feedback before that meeting sure I mean you can reach out to them there's no reason we we're not under any restrictions about to talk because I think that would be really valuable um you know and I think at some point we should tell everybody who applied that hey for now time things have changed and it's not up for sale we could do it that way we could reach out to every everybody with an email giving them an update and letting them know that you know if they're interested in potential in a lease since that's all that's within our control at the moment they should get back to us anyone any email that we have that would be great I'd like to put that as an action item can yeah so are we still on discussion of the joint meeting do we have a date for yeah I mean next Tuesday anytime the select board is meeting right was was potentially an option um didn't did our agenda already come out yes um but we agreed that we couldn't do it on the next select board meeting on Tuesday yeah does does it make sense to have the select board attend our meeting as opposed to that was another we talked about that we were going to talk about the scheduling thing here so to see what people's availability was and if anybody if anybody was it's Tuesday not going to be here in the future to know that as well membership wise so I won't be I'm resigning so so um so next Tuesday is the select board meeting and then our next one would be on the 6th six or Sor the 5th 5th June 5th is that correct yep um but we could meet before then with the select board if if people were willing and the select was and the select board was so I guess you know um I don't know what the plan pull out the calendar I pleasure the board is I think your next meeting is the 28th isn't it the select board meeting is the 28th Tuesday the 28th but I think I think Matthew D up I think we talked about it a little bit more and the idea was that trying to fit this big of a discussion into the select board's every day agenda is going to be tough so maybe we should set aside a special time and place to do that whether that's at our meeting or whether we come up with an entirely different date so we could try to we could ask to select what if if Wednesday the 5th would work that's one possibility I have a commitment okay if June 12th would be a possibility that's two far out how about next week or about the 29th I just hate to keep pushing and pushing keep that would I mean that would be two nights with selectboard in a row but that might be okay I mean it's okay with me we can ask I can I think we just got on a much slower boat after town meeting so I know folks are in a hurry but I don't think a week or two is gonna make that much difference and we haven't heard from Nar yet have we no I'll see Ashley next week and better in person so so the 29th is not doable for me but I'm probably not coming back to this committee all support from the select board side that out loud was that out loud no um the 30th I mean I'm available most of next week except for Tuesday and Monday's Memorial Day obviously so if we want to do it next Thursday we can ask to select board for that I think we're going to need to give them give them a couple dates probably we can all do THS Thursday um and then after that so the you said will you said the fifth was no good for the fourth like I have conation okay um six yes May 30th is the First Choice yeah all right we do have somebody with a hand up and I'm not terribly inclined to take a bunch of comment tonight I think we're just public comment I think surprise sorry uh we this first time we haven't done it but tonight I think we just need to chart a course forward for this board so thank you so the first day would be May 30th and the second choice would be June 6th June 6th and then if those two don't work we'll have to go to the week of the 10th and we can we can talk about that um I can email this group and try to schedule something because that's a little bit further out so hopefully the 30th or or the six will work okay okay all right I'll [Applause] ask okay so we did recap of efforts General discussion joint meeting with select board yeah can we just go back over the joint meeting so so we are going to reach out we're gonna are we going to talk to Ryan about getting starting to get a quote for the removal of the trees if we can please I I mean I I can definitely email him and and ask him um do you have any other contacts besides the Vermont land clearing I don't I've got one okay worked for the committee before okay okay if you'll let me know that and then the other one was I would suggest you write that so you get it with Stomps without Stomps per and if there's going to be any differences like it's wetter in the part below the house if it's gonna be more okay do you have the notes from Joel lady when we sent out the bid because we can draft yeah that's a good idea do you have that I don't I'm sure I mean I get that for you if you have it handy that'd be great and then the other one was we want to email the RFI respondents and ask them if they're still interested in a lease yeah think that I can do that you can do that okay Karen's gonna do that so those are the two I just want to make sure we no problem sorry we summarized those before we moved on okay anything else on under agenda item four we kind of skipped ahead no all right let's back up to agenda item three the town newsletter article Jen I know you had an interest in this I'm sorry a new town newsletter that's putting out I think that's coming out in June and and I thought maybe we should um kind of keep people up to date now that it's a little more of a hot button topic for most so if we just put together any progress or anything like like Amy was saying okay now we're here so your vote this is what is the result of that vote I'm just kind of giving people an update so we can double check with Jim I think the deadline is passed for the June 1st so one's the next one month July 1 so I think the due date is the 15th so it' be the 15th of June for July 1st yeah okay probably better to get in the second issue after everybody knows it exists anyway yeah people were like what and that's something where it seems like Amy and I do an awful lot of like timeline type stuff so if you're willing then we can work on that I mean from what you've written you could basically like double the size of the newsletter with just with what you've written so far the newslet I think that would be a really like contact that I have for one of the people robertt okay oh that's for the for for not foring stumping removal okay thanks he's done work for the orchard in the town before can't remember his last name Great's gonna be able to get this um well I don't know what if it's going to be more than what $30,000 so so it's going to be a regular so I think he's going to have to call and sort of it's going to be the full 30 yeah okay it's going to process which is going to be time consuming but we need to do it I mean we can't not do it so yeah okay it's just we probably won't have that number yeah we probably won't have meeting but we can give them you can give them the um at least a rough estimate we have from Land B yeah yeah yeah yeah and if everybody anybody does bring up oh let's just hire somebody to run the orchard side and because it has come up from what I've heard I mean it's going to cost $100,000 a year with benefits and everything else if you can find somebody you know something about a tractor alone is going to cost them $100,000 I mean we're not it's it's not a vital solution to hire somebody to run the orchard on the town level in my opinion yeah I mean that's just a disaster waiting to happen I mean it's $100,000 for one person one person can't run an orchard right correct if you can find somebody who's gonna who can do that because there's not a lot out there all right anything else on the newsletter no okay action items Orchard safety and maintenance and that's Sarah Sarah before you jump in I did want to as I said I I are the solvents they've got about eight trees that really are at risk um I would encourage you guys to consider that as part part of the maintenance is not putting the Neighbors at risk from disease and test which frankly is what's happening now so I met on May 8th did a site walk with Stevie Earley for the town we came up with immediate action list there's six items I shared it with Karen and Matthew on May 8th and so we're just trying to figure figure out how it's going to be financed I can go through the action items um this is in addition to items that were outlined in January um that were marked urgent in terms of things that were supposed to get done which did not get done do you have this available for us to consider that's all the drive those are all the ones that well I know but I think aren't we going to be voting on this like what we we're voting on this right now I think which is but you just said this includes something else or did you it's it's all the work that was supposed to be done last winter like repairing some of the holes so all of those were already submitted back in January I have a copy of them but it's but is that there's more than this this is this is immediate okay but okay so there are other things that should be done that haven't been done but I was asked to come up with an immediate plan so this is the minimum of what needs to be done but we still haven't secured the buildings that we were supposed to secure which we set aside $5,000 last January those are things like repairing window panes we got all the hazardous material out already that cold storage area in particular under the upper bone really needs better security that's got like a dog chain on it they already worked on that what's up they were I think they already worked on that so DPW is not going to have the bandwidth to do the whatever it is our list is so y once we agree on what the list is Town Hall put it out for bid and we'll get somebody else to do the work but we just have to finalize what we're asking to all the bit out but let's let's do let's vote on this tonight right let's get this in process right away yeah that's my point and then the immediate action items is not a lot of money no and I've already talked to St and there I've got so we need to secure the shed that's falling down just in terms of the snow fence that the town already owns just so people don't go in the structure anymore so and that's something I basically said if you put this stuff there I'll get we'll just go ahead and do it so we just need a lot of no trespassing signs to it up on um some of the buildings structural supports which is basically 2x4 to brace up the building that's we already lost one side of the building right on neok Hill um securing some of the doors reinstalling the saw horses that the town owns that DPW just needs to drop the stuff off yeah D so that we can do it all these things I think we can do as committee members I know Jen and I have already offered to do that but I wanted to get this done before I got busy and now I'm not having much time I would really encourage committee members you already spending enough time here I I know you want to volunteer but at some point the town has to take responsibility they bought these buildings they bought this land and they got to maintain it you know it's like doing your kids homework for them you know it doesn't help depends on what hour of the night it is what's up no that's that way lies the Abit don't don't do it yeah I mean like that's like this is the challenge of this is the reason why it should be sold to a competent farmer is because the town doesn't even have the staff to do like the staff to do like the most minimal things that we've been asking for since probably 2001 2021 so I I I appreciate your your your willingness to go in there and do it but I kind of agree with Brad like let's start formalizing this process and holding holding us responsible for what needs to be done for that property it's not our it's not our job to to fix it up Tom bought the property and they've got up easy for 25 years and it's led to neglect I think it's time to they get a come to the table they bought it they made a commitment and that maintain if it's a half hour of putting snow fencing up sure but I mean you know you're talking about like never never but I mean you're it's always all so you're looking so if we look at the top bar we have holes that the animals are getting through that has to get patched last fall last winter yeah there's window panes that are out yeah that need to be done there's so there's more and more holes so the animals are loving the building so a lot of them just need patches either inside outside so it does take a carpenter to do those things okay so I would think that in today's prevailing wages in that you could do it for less than 20,000 originally I thought 10 but now the things keep getting pushed away I think you could definitely try and find someone and I I think you know one Carpenter could go in and just get it done easily within a week or two or and that's number four that you were just talking about lower wooded lot no that's not even on this list okay so again we can't put out a bid until we vote on what we want them to do so are we voting a budget first and then tasks or Tas voting on tasks what tasks do we want done those tasks so back in I think it was January we all have access to the list of what needed to be done in terms of repairs um filling hold South End of the lot in in terms of drill holes and buildings some of these things we've done we removed the park and wreck boat we we've removed the oils so Sarah is there anything on that list that's not on this one that perhaps we could add and then all the carpentry is not on this list so do we have a motion to add the carpentry on is it just the upper Barn no it's the lower one too so do a motion maybe to add the carpentry on the upper and lower Barn onto this list let's let's like let's let's come up with a list all at once I think like is there are there other things on on the January list that that are more immediate um no the holes have gotten bigger and there's more holes right but I mean apart from the holes are there not that I know so why don't we do why don't we do the the the structural issues with the Barns and this list and vote to send that to to town and say we need these fixed immediately like find bit let you know set it out to bid and let's let's go because I think that would be that's the way to move forward with these things how how to get them fixed okay is that yeah yeah all right so I'll I'll move that the working group suggest recommend to the I guess the select board that we um address uh this list of issues that Sarah's presented well as well as the structural patches and or repairs to the upper and lower Barn I second it any further discussion house no I don't I didn't a bulldozer um okay uh all in favor I I okay motion passes so I'll I'll put the list get together and I'll I'll forward it to Ryan along with the request for bids on the stumps do we have to make a motion to remove the trees after we get the um uh yeah we probably we want to recommend that the the select board you know puts a bit out for removing the trees we probably should do make a motion for that can I add to that that recommendation we do bring to their attention the neighbors who have stone fruit and P fruit are really suffering from the neglect of the Orchards so let me say this I would like to make a motion to remove the trees on the ne out property and to remove the Trees of the diseased trees on the neighbors and abing properties well I think we can remove them all but make them aware that right now that neglect is impacting on some neighbors okay I'll again what's up I would like to make a motion to remove to support to support the removal of the trees on the neog Apple Orchard property and to make them aware that there's disease trees on the neighbor's property that are impacted that are impa I will second that any further discussion all in favor uh we're down to other business does anybody have any other business well okay so for me I want to let you know I am resigning I really appreciate working with everybody um but with the voted town meeting I think we're fundamentally going in the wrong direction and while I'm happy to donate my time to the town I'm not going to waste it and I think it's it's actually worse than a waste of time in going towards a lease U and frankly those people who who really want to go that way probably deserves somebody on this board who doesn't think that their desires are asite so I appreciate all your help and you have a wealth of um just experience and information and knowledge and it's um going to be um impact like definitely um a bummer to see you yeah well thank you and we' had our differences at times but I don't often say this but I think everybody on this group is on it for the right reason and it's not ego it's not a another agenda they just want to do what right by the town but uh from my perspective I don't think we're going in a Direction that's right by the town so but we're going to continue to use you as a consultant you can still email me you're getting and I will talk to an unpaid cons I'm G to have to give the salary I'm getting here yeah we're gonna double it okay I'm sorry yeah I am sorry too um but I you know the what I brought to this board in my estimation was has help with the RFI and the RFP if we're not doing that then I don't see that I am necessarily the right person to be filling the seat um I think Mark racher indicated he would um fill the other would be willing to step in we'll have to double check with him on that after he sees today's meeting but um but uh you know he's got ever so slightly more agricultural meaning a lot more agricultural experience than I do so and the institutional knowledge um that will be helpful I think here um and I can continue to support this from the select board side and you know advise and our and our been invaluable and I'm happy to continue to help absolutely great this is um yeah I think I think a different skill set will probably serve the board better this group better well thank you I stand on my statement early anybody else want to jump ship yeah I mean I think the lease is just like the wrong direction for so many reasons so I'm going to have to like really think about it after the next uh Board of Select meeting because like I don't want to waste my time um we I keep like going like we had that conversation back in 2021 it's just like I not going to waste my volunteer time like answering the same question three times a town meeting I'm like I I I don't know if I can do this like it's just kind of ridiculous so you're still thinking of it I'm still thinking of it so we need a chair then anybody I I can't I just I'm not I'm not GNA be able to do it no okay on time I saw Sarah yesterday she she was hoping you'd resign to it's hard you know we're all frustrated I think we all walked out of town meeting shaking our heads like you know it was so close and um I agree with with everybody it it should it should be for sale for least we're just barking up the wrong tree but this group and I'm sorry there are some people leaving um but this group has been involved for so long um so on the one hand it's like why are we sticking around if somebody thinks they can do it better then we should all go yeah right but so I'm kind of I think that's where I'm kind of of the feeling of we we all go and a whole new board comes in there a whole bunch of people thought they knew better than us John Mitchell one those guys let them get up there yeah I mean yeah and just so I mean just to give something the Boris select to think about um if you guys are going to do a lease then you know maybe you don't even need an adog committee because you have P rfps you know we were on the committee and they blew past us yeah we um we had no input on the original lease the first time that happened and you don't like like we we fulfilled the mission of the committee like we did all the research we made the recommendations and you know people complain that the board selecton um don't always listen to committees this time the public didn't listen to the committee which I find interesting well public has a right to be wrong but I don't have to be there sit and watch it yeah so yeah maybe I mean you're right maybe after the select board meeting if we go with a lease that we don't need to this group does not need to be there I mean I would caution that if we go with a lease is is a big if if we I mean we go out to bid for a lease and we get zero viable bids because of the terms of the RFP or we get one viable bid and it doesn't work out and that's what happened with the candidate we had and that candidate spent $330,000 of their own money on legal on legal fees and walked away because there could not be in agreement on the terms so to your point Karen it may very well happen again yeah so I guess I guess I I I see the hypocrisy and I can smell the hypocrisy me saying this but just because we're talking about um a lease as the next step does not necessarily mean that that's the direction right that the select board is going in right Market the market is Tim 15 people from the RFI have to say so I'm reserving judgment until we get feedback from those those people I'm would like to hold hope that there might be more than one person that might want to do something I do think it makes a big difference too if the town's want to put there put the resources forward to remove some of the trees it'll make it'll make a difference it will make a difference yeah I mean Charlie made a go of it because Charlie came into a working Orchard sure our biggest barrier to a leas is the the the investment you need to work just to grow something on there in the amount of time anything the town can do to reduce that initial investment is going to make it more viable absolutely still not the best use but it would be potentially viable yeah it's also um we had so many great RFI candidates who are going to do a really wide diversity of things yeah they're super Community focused they were G A lot of them were going to like replant apple trees like there were so many amazing people who really want to be part of the community and they spent a lot of time filling up these applications coming to our meetings joining on Zoom asking questions reading in the rain walking like walking the property you know like sending us email send emails like you know that's that's a waste Farmers time so just so Megan in your address Megan six needles um so when you were just talking about the 15 people that gave address is there so earlier had mentioned maybe supporting coming back to town meeting and maybe talking about some of those 15 PE you know what what they had planned so is that so to be fair of the 15 we identified four to depending who you talk to who we thought were actually viable based on what they submitted all those wanted to buy it okay so I think it's really those half dozen people maybe who come back and say I might lease it if you did a and Si okay but what I but like it so at the very beginning of the meeting it was talked about let's just come back to town meeting and try again and maybe if it talks about like these are what the people want to do with the these are our four candidates and this is what they want to do with it maybe some of the people that not option anymore well coming back to town meeting was sort of in the context of if the mathon wanted to buy it we need to come back to town meeting to explain what we need to do in order to get it to that state if the maths are willing to lease it for 99 years or 30 years or whatever then we don't need to go back to town meeting or you know well in some form for 99 years we do it's a different it's a different vote I guess but I I was going to say I think there's a lot to be we learned from uh how the planning board handled the MBTA um right the first time they they tried it did not go through they held public sessions they were moderated they gave they were able to do a lot of public education with them um and I think I think that either the select board or the orchard working group or somebody I think you know that is worthwhile no matter what we end up doing is helping people really understand yeah I think that what the future of the orchard is yeah I think that needs to be a PID consultant yeah right the yeah I'm not gonna put the time that no nor would I no I think I wouldn't ask you to I wouldn't even suggest it but I do think that that's you know I do think that going back again makes sense I think when the vote is that close and when the costs are this high if we can do more public education and and you know we've seen in the past that it took you know it can take a couple votes to get enough folks to understand the facts to vote with the facts yeah and there are some people frankly just voted out of selfishness but I do think there are some people didn't understand it I do too and I think there are a lot of people who couldn't be there and if they could have been there they would have voted for it but maybe they'll know enough you know maybe they'll decide they care enough to show up you know to make room yeah and I'm not trying to imply that if you don't show up time meeting you don't care I reject that poliy but yeah yes sir and then Sur FR we since we're taking commentary be there look like yes sir Rob 25 Jer uh I agree and you started off the meeting saying people came up after for the vote I'm certainly one of them I could have easily gotten other people to come and I know many many people some were there and left and were appalled by the vooke frankly the the time that you folks have put in and the fact that you're about to right rightly say goodbye for all the reasons that you've stated that's a powerful statement that needs to be shared with the town and I think you to be right back at the town meeting pay the $10,000 get a special town meeting do it quickly or do your you know PR education thing and then come right back immediately because they're some people motivated that are going to pack the house with regard to and and I'll ask people who I won't even know what their votes are but I'll make it clear to them how insane it is with regard to the presentation was made and the vote that ended and then they can come and if they want to vote against it they can vote against it but my sense from the people I speak with is it's an overwhelming slam dunk it's just the apathy and the lack of understanding contribute to and selfishness yeah okay I get but but the fact that that you folks have put in the time and made the presentation that you did that was beyond convincing and Nostalgia whatever it was that we heard and then to have the vote be as close it was because it se sound like was going to be a very very lopsided vote far from the vote that it was I I really think you've got as you mentioned the MDT I think you I think you've got that ability and quite frankly the alternative is is disastrous and the alternative about you folks departing and having a new group that's just going to lengthen the future Etc I I'd like I'm glad mat Etc is of interest but I honestly think the town needs to be out of this as quickly as it can I think you guys were that and M would prefer to purchase it and that's my point I come right back with the exact same exact same boat do the education do the exact same boat but I've taken enough of your time I feel strongly if you do that if you need some to show a force with regard to public meeting from a public session education session you know give us notice some of us I'm one of them very very late arriv and now I'm here and I'll bring in a bunch of people that that I feel can get motivated quite quickly with regard to we're not that stupid but apparently we're not successful because as a committee we did say that we were going to do an Outreach I would I would still like to do one and see how that and if we publicize it in the town newslet we might get that might be a big game Chang in terms of attendance what would it take for a special town meeting many select board would have to support it and it would have to be signatures no I think it's I think there you can do it if the citizen petition I think it's up to 50 it's 50 signatures in a petition if it's properly formatted will call will incur trigger a town meeting what cost that is born by the town if if it's properly created by the citizen petition a town meeting must be must be taken must be Figures it's like yeah I think 10 grand was the figure we heard last time yeah yeah and I think just to your gentleman's point it's like you have three people who have varying degrees and various forms of farm experience I I don't know where you're going to find that somewhere else in Littleton you're not and Sarah wrote all the grants to to decrease the total cost of the taxpayer back in 1999 like she knows that property inside and out like there are like you have this board has the people that this town needs you're not going to replicate it again so uh s are you still there he was on then left I for yeah I'm here okay go ahead I I'll be brief I miss few of the meanings so what I'm hearing is that you could give us your name and address where you live yeah my name is s FR Ahmed I live in chamford um Massachusetts and um my question is um I actually missed a couple of meetings so I think uh this summarizes what happened at the town meeting I guess people voted out or towards leing the leing the land right the question is um I know that if the APR land is leas there are grants and things like that you can you cannot get the federal grants and all that so the loans become difficult and all those things um did the town consider that uh those things like you know APR land Still Remains APR or whether they are considering splitting the APR as a sale and rest as a lease no it all has to be well there's there's non APR land there and what we focused on what we were focused on at town meeting was a sale of the APR land in the house in the upper Barn okay does that answer your question I understand so I was I think I was more interested in buying all but like let's say most of the applicant I guess you were highlighting top three four were or eight were interested in buying all of them uh all of the parcels but what I'm trying to say is that if the town is leaning towards leasing then is the APR can the APR be sold separately and rest can be leased to the same party who no it's actually the exact opposite we needed a town meeting vote to sell the APR property the remainder of that property can be leased tomorrow if we wanted to assuming we go and all that up to 30 years y for up to 30 years okay well so basically wherever the apple trees were for the most part that we were looking to sell that's APR okay iron s IR s and I just have a question for you would you be interested in leasing I don't remember your application off hand the details uh yeah I I I would be I I need to see what what what lease entails yeah I was I was actually more I was interested in buying APR in any case what whatever uh way it would have turned out but because of the new you know outcome I think we can we can talk about like what the lease requires what the what are the restrictions cuz you know uh it becomes difficult when town is not relaxed they don't relax the terms and they are very strict on things you know on the leasing so it all depends how the lease terms have to be or what the lease terms are okay I understand 99 year is the most viable option but I'm not sure if you are putting that on the table is is what is the most viable option so 99 years lease right yeah we need to go to town meeting to get approval to have a 99 year lease if we're going to do that which is a consideration yeah okay right sounds good and again again as as previously discussed that would at least give you ensure you had more time to make back your return on investment and for the record since I'm leaving and nobody cares you were one of my top applicants and V be share right Cann now partner with me you know all right thank you for time than all right any other business so entertain a motion to adjourn I second it I'll move it all right I assume everybody agrees move thank you for all your help thank you thank you