all right good evening everybody a few little technical glitches but we are here it's happy August already look at that August 1 designed in site selection group there has been a lot that's been done since the last meeting uh we'll waste no more time if the uh Studio G can jump right into their presentation we'll start going through the items that we're looking at for this evening all right I love to it says host disabled participant screen sharing Steve ah my goodness you good no I still get the same error message so while we're waiting I have somebody on the participant list from Foley and mccardy P PC who who was that please I think that's Stacy right Stacy's that oh is that what I'm maybe that's what I'm signed in on all right yeah cool I I wear many different hats but I didn't realize that's the one I signed in on so I apologize no that's okay I just want to make sure everybody who's here they could introduce themselves yeah all right here we go okay we are in business so I think tonight is going to be short and sweet try to move through this quickly uh so not much to talk about tonight but some important things I'm gonna skip the project goals because we discussed this last time and we are tweaking the second one a little bit but as of now it's it's a little bit more in the direction and we can we can make a final decision on that later all right so the fun part we received cost estimates for six options that we looked at a code upgrade option two addition renovation options and three new construction options one of which is at the wickom field Lo and these estimates included they were based on msba guid line which is just the bare minimum that the msba recommends this is we need when we look at this this needs to just be seen as a comparison between the options and not as a reflection of what the final cost is going to be so this initial estimate is sort of trying to compare apples to apples and just as it's useful for seeing okay this one's a little bit more this one's a little bit less it's not about okay this one's costing x amount of dollars and this one's y amount of dollars so with that in mind they all came in except for the code code upgrade option they came in very close to each other uh when we look at the price per square foot that's probably the most impactable number to use because that is not going to change regardless of how many square feet we have and this number they're all in the mid 800s and to see consistent price in like this across all of these different options is uh really interesting but it's also sort of reassuring because it means that not any one of these options is going to be way more expensive or way less expensive than the others with the exception of the code after adoption so in order to read this part basically we have this row has been highlighted because that's really the most important one to take away from this this is the most reliable number on here because it is so preliminary it's very difficult to have uh a cost estimate that is reasonably accurate but the square footed price per square foot is is a much more reliable indicator the next thing to look at here is going to be the estimated total project costs these are where the estimates came in and again if you look at them all they're all the mid 70 million except for the Cod I apologize to interrupt Steve vudi could you let Kelly back in please oh thank you okay see that off set thanks sure so you see on here that there's a CMR estimate and a dbb estimate these two numbers dbb is design bid build and that's a very linear process of we design the building we send the design out for bids we receive the bids we choose the least expensive and then they build it pretty straightforward it's a pretty traditional way to go about uh constructing a project and you compare that to CMR that stands for construction manager at risk and that the name's a little bit of a misnomer but basically it means that you partner earlier on with a construction manager and they are able to provide feedback and cost estimating as you go along to help guide your decision making so that you can save money there is uh an increase in initial price for choosing the CMR rate over the design bid build but there are pros and cons to both we don't have to decide which one we're doing now but you should be aware that there are two different ways that this project could go and we'll be discussing that more in detail later for the purposes of this part we're looking at everything as designed but build just to compare apples to apples so you'll see estimated total project cost based on design B builds so included in those prices is Demolition and abatement and even for the code upgrade option that would be the abatement portion like removing any asbest or other hazardous materials that are found even though there's no demolition there's still going to be a decent amount of removing material from the building and that's where that money comes from in the other option this is purely demolition price and you have to do special disposal if you find any hazardous material so that's what those numbers indicate and I will point out that for option 4.1 this cost is not reimbursable by the msba so that that has to get factored into the decision a little bit differently uh next thing to look at is we included a line item here for utility upgrades we don't yet know what those are going to be but we wanted to make people aware that this is another additional cost that's going to go into this and then we included the possibility of modular the design of the ad Reno has been thought through in such a way that we don't anticipate that you need any modulars basically we build a new academic Wing move all the kids over there then demolish the old academic wing and it's done pretty nice and neatly without a lot of drama so we don't anticipate modular for those but a code upgrade option you definitely would need to be shifting people in and out of rooms as you go through in phases and and refinish parts of the building at a time all right this maximum msba eligible reimbursement number here this is based on it's a calculation that they have you do they reimburse up to a certain square footage a certain price per square foot and then another calculation that they put into it and so basically the important thing to take out of this is that for each one of these cost estimates that we got the total project cost this bottom row here represents what the Littleton District thereare would be so it's a lot to absorb and I hope this made sense the key takeaway is really that there's no outliers here these are all approximately within the same ballpark of each other these differences are very small especially at this early stage and in from what I've seen of this the numbers that you previously went through when we did the evaluation and we voted online and we came up with these scores for each of these options there's nothing that I see in these cost estimates that would alter those numbers so I'd like to just answer any questions that you might have right now or any discussion and it would be great to get consensus about whether or not we still feel the same way about how you previously scored all of these options marily can can you um I had a question this is Ryan um so if I was looking at Option 3.1 uh that's SE 77.7 million is that right yep okay so I I think we were thinking the reimbursement rate was somewhere to the tune of about 48% on this project so I was trying to figure out how we went to the 52.4 million on that because it for my math that should be more like around 40 million right so that is from the they reimburse up to a certain dollar per square foot and the msba is a little bit behind in their money they're very slow to change for many many years they were doing it around I think $250 a square foot and that just did not reflect reality at all and then I think it was sometime around 2017 2019 something like that they increased the number quite a bit and then again since then they increase the number to $650 per square foot now you're not really finding schools that are built for 650 a square foot but that is how they do their calculations it's 48% up to 650 a sare foot plus some other calculations and that's why this number is higher than 48% of this number if that makes sense it does but I think for our planning purposes that with uh the limitation of what msba is I think I at least for me I was always working along the percentage basis and I mean that's a Delta of uh at least in terms of the Town's obligation that shifts about another $12 million onto the yes project so that is a good point and I wonder if uh Mark or sesh would like to time in here a little bit about more of the logistics of this yeah s s his hand up he's probably anticipating that oh perfect uh to answer your question Ryan first of all the numbers that we are calculated the actual the current number the MSP gives is $605 $65 per square foot not 650 605 sry thank you the good news is starting January 1st when we go in front of to the board for this Project's approval the number is going to go up to six uh 600 and see 645 it's going to go up to 645 from current 605 so they're increasing it by $40 per square foot and that's what the the proposal is to the board right now it'll go in front of the board in October the next meeting which is August or maybe might go into October and that's when they will make the final decision but to go back to your question so what you do is if you look at the The Bard number the dollar per square foood cost you know which is pretty much consistent in the mid 800s so MSB is only paying $65 right now this calculation is based upon 605 of the multiplied by the square footage of the building which is 73850 multiply that with 048 that's the share the msba share comes into place add 20% of the soft cost and you add again multiply that by that soft cost again is subject to a limit of 550 only not even they're not increasing that limit that I know of right right now so that's also based upon there will be some share coming more from you and less from the msba so the msba try to do a Level Playing Field or trying to you know do more projects then they they that come in front of them so that's the reason they limit the cost of per square foot what they will allow you so that's the reason like I I think I mentioned this very early on when you say 48 think more like 04 to35 I've always been that you know proponent of that because there's no way you will get the whole 48 cents that's not going to happen that's like you they bring it up with this eligible cost every time it says 48% of the eligible cost and the eligible cost is a lot of parameters like in this particular case we also have a lot of site work you know the so there's a 8% limit on the site work or 10 you know that's that the cost of the site work right now they allowing us you uh 40 10% which is 6 $59 square foot okay which is the most they will allow as eligible beyond that if you have site work cost or anything outside the building footprint or the site footprint sorry not building let's say we have to bring the utilities you know a mile down the street extra the anything that's happening off the property that's not eligible from by msba standards so there are a lot of factors that go into that place and we try to you know give you I don't want we don't want to give you a very Rosy picture saying and then come back and say sorry we made a mistake so that's the reason we try to come up with the numbers the best we have based on the information we have right now and and SES going forward can't that 48% change when you start adding points yeah it can depending on a little bit but not too much yeah I mean right up to 50 51 depending on Green Building you know lead certification like there's other things that add points to it but it is minimal yeah so I just wna um hope everybody's clear on this just going forward that it's not the bottom line and then the district share is 48% so does it make does this make sense Ryan did that kind of no it it it does I just s did a nice job of explaining it but it just I I think that um that uh I I most we all have to then sell this to town meeting and I I then have to sort of back off and say well it really wasn't 48% it's more like when you net everything out probably closer to 40% so it's just I understand the rules as to why they are and and I appreciate it because now I better understand it it's just it becomes a harder thing to sell because I think that um for us we've we've depicted it so far that it's been a 48% reimbursement rate but if there's a limitation on the per square footage uh amount then um you know that is what it is but uh certainly not not what I uh expected up into this meeting so um not anyone's fault I just um just disappointed um that um that this becomes more of an obligation for the taxpayer or Littleton but you know be that as it may Mary Le can you talk about the differences between 31 and 41 we were just picking up the footprint and putting it on to witcom why is it costing more on 31 yes so this I'm not 100% sure these numbers are based on what the cost estimator gave us and because it is so high level they have calculations that they do where they put in the square footage and a few other factors and then uh escalation percentages and then they give us a number so we do have a more detailed report from them but it really doesn't shed a huge amount of light on it I'm not totally sure why that is it might be because there's quite a bit of site development that's already occurred here so there's likely to be a lot more utilities that are closer or things like that um but at this time these two numbers are not really statistically different from each other you know it's still so preliminary and we don't know what sort of field conditions are going to be here this might be a lot of uh organic material in the soil that we have to remove and replace there might be ledge here that increases the cost so that's why these numbers are not super reliable and they're more useful in terms of the saying these are very close to each other they're not substantially different from each other and if I can add to that Steve one more thing the Demolition and abatement of the building of the Shaker Lan building will not be reimbursable if you're moving to a different side so that 1.4 million that you see has been added back on into the district share because that becomes ineligible because you have moved away from the from the current side so you know in other conditions they are eligible in this particular position is not eligible anymore I I was more looking at the cost per square foot 876 to 840 we're building the same building yeah I think it's the site work cost that you m explained that's mainly in the site work go okay yeah the the Wickham site is uh fairly clear right now the the only thing that's different is there' probably be offsite work on the Wickam job we'd have to factor in as well which isn't on here yeah I mean the the price estim estimator is working with limited amount of information as are we because as we continue to study this and we learn more and learn more about the specific conditions at each of these locations then we can get more and more specific with the price but for right now a lot of assumptions are made you know they just put in a general allowance for site work and it's based on things like is the site already developed what's the distance from major roadways things like that so it is just an which is a fancy word for somebody's taking an educated guess and also just compareed so it's this one is more than this one or so it's comparing them to one another because we don't know a lot about the mechanical systems we don't know a lot about where the utilities need to go or what the setic system needs to withstand so there's these type of variables that as the project get more developed will shed light so that's why it's more it's less about this is the final total it's more about this one is more than this one or less than this one or is going to get reimbursed more or less than a different one so comparing them to one another yeah so this is still at the this is at the 10,000 foot level right now I mean we're looking at this as more cost per square foot based on the the real schem not preliminary you know square footages that are being pulled together so as it says in the upper leftand corner these these costs are going to change you know uh potentially significantly you know as we as we go through the options and the recommendation for 3.1 if we start to really you know get into that development you're going to see those numbers change so this was as I said the comparison between Apples to Apples for all the options that were looked at and the recommendation stands as 3.1 to go in to development Beyond this then more details going to show more costs or more actual costs uh Stacy had her hand out before SES I think Stacy yes so I was wondering are there more so these are all estimates right we know they're going to change they're going to go up or down they'll likely go up but are there more variable costs with certain options versus other options as is as in is there a higher risk for increase in these costs because we're doing a different project versus like if we're doing a renovation versus doing a new project like where do we fall into that risk benefit of possible variables in those costs yeah that's a really good question and the risk for example for any of these projects any of these options you might have the risk of finding a bunch of hazardous materials maybe there is a buried oil tank that has leaked and now you have to clean that up maybe there is ledge under here that you don't know about and now you have to do blasting maybe the soil is not structurally good and then you have to do an extra complicated Foundation system uh there's any number of things that could occur and the risks for adreno versus new are I I wouldn't say one is necessarily more risky than the other it's just that the risk factors are different right so even for a new Option you if when you're demolishing the old building you're still going to have to deal with whatever abatement of hazardous materials are found just in the case of when you're doing a renovation now you have to do it while the building is occupied and get it to a safe state so that it Contin can continue to be occupied whereas if you're demolishing it you're just removing the material so it's it's really difficult to answer those questions at this time there's enough variability between them that you can still kind of assume that they're more or less equal at this really early stage if that makes sense but the potential is there yes yeah SES did you have a followup yes and to add to that the potential would be as we go more into design detail design will be identifying any of the potentials most of the potentials will be you part of the contingency that will be identif ying and you know trying to mitigate those because there will be two independent estimates one from Studio G one from Turner downon and they'll be comparing the estimates to come up with the final number that will be presented to the commed and to the msba so that adds one thing and the other thing was I was uh if I can share my screen for one minute Mary Lee I just want to show this to Ryan here your mine uh Ryan this is from yesterday if you can see my screen yes okay this is as of yesterday's meeting at the msba did we just see a list of screenshots we're just seen a list of screenshots yeah yeah oh you're not seeing this here we're not seeing any pictures just a list of screenshots oh sorry one second let me reduce all these down here okay so I just want to be sensitive to time how it's 7:45 how long do people have I know that we're trying to aim for shorter meetings so or but if it's being recorded is this okay or I'm just keeping I see Michelle's in her car so what what kind of time I this is important information so just wanted to I have all night so but I just wanted to be courteous to everybody else no that's good and we started 20 minutes late too so we got you know right so how is everybody doing are we in this I'm fine okay can you see the yes yes okay uh just for your purpose Ryan see this number here this was the msbs funding limit 275 of scare foot as late as June 2021 was 360 they increased in December to 432 and in October 23 to 605 and now they're proposing going to 645 as January 1st this is the largest increase they have ever happened in like from 360 they're almost doubling to 645 based upon what's happened after pre postco and so you can see preo and postco there's a big difference over here I just wanted you know this is as of yesterday's uh FAS meeting got it okay yeah okay thank you yeah Stacy did that answer your question yes it did yeah it just clarified that there's it seems as though there's no more of a potential risk of picking one over the other when we're looking at the the district share that we could essentially be running into the same increase in costs regardless of which option we choose um so yes it did thank you and I think we go good sorry as as we go through feasibility we're going to be doing more and more investigation of the site we're going to be doing uh soil borings some test pits uh basically investigating so that we can try to identify any of these potential unknowns so that as we learn more and more then our estimates become more and more accurate and reliable sorry I was gonna add to that list yeah that was up yeah that was actually a follow-up question I was going to ask is is there anything that the the town can do or dig up to find out what those potential risks are um so I know we're not we're not voting on anything we're not deciding on anything right now but it seems as though there's more evaluation time to be done for us to kind of do a little bit of that background work to figure out what our real potential costs could be this is just a very initial cost estimate yep and that's what actually we're doing with our consultants and what's going to be happening during PSR basically what the msba wants you to do is first identify all potential options then narrow it down to at least three and then by the end of the PSR you've narrowed it down to one and so basically instead of having to test six different options and do borings at all six different locations you maybe do for three or maybe just one or two and so that way as you eliminate sites for various reasons you know maybe you uh it doesn't deliver the Ed program or you don't like the way that the site is configured for whatever reason that just saves time and money because you're only really investigating the options that you're really serious about so that's not anything that the town has to do that's something that we're doing with our Consultants through feasibility so we have we have to submit the three choices to msba by the end of August is that right yes so Ren one the code upgrade one Rena and one new right okay so the the msba step one they want you to investigate at least three options one is code upgrade one is an ad Rena option one is a new construction option so we did that plus a few other options of those the msba wants you to choose at least three to move forward into PSR one of which has to be an ad Reno option so most districts almost all districts eliminate the code upgrade option uh at this time because it just is impossible for it to meet the educational program so it's just not realistic so of the remaining five options I've highlighted the top three choices based on the scores that everybody had picked you had uh very clearly preferred ad Rena option A very clearly preferred new construction option and then I took the the third choice from those so we'll be carrying these three forward into PSR and by the end of PSR we will have narrowed this down to one final choice and as part of the PDP we have to we we work with the town and the district to get get additional information on the sites so the title of the site the ownership of the site so when we start getting information from the assessors or whatever ever maybe that information comes out that there was an old oil tank somewhere or at certain point there was some mitigation or something was done on the site somewhere that information will come out so if there's other further investigation that the subs will do they can focus in on that like I know they're looking at subsurface work potentially Title 5 work right now um so we're lucky in a way that we're really looking at one site with three options right so it's add Renault and two new on pretty much the same site you know wham's been sort of eliminated or isn't looking that way so that's going to be easier to focus on as opposed to six separate sites all throughout the town to be evaluated you know to get information on it's good that we're on pretty much one site I I'm still hearing behind the scenes people looking for whitcom so just know that when we meet with the select board there could be a lot of talk about whitcom sure if you have specific points that they have been bringing up so that we know sort of what the the what people are thinking already then we can better address it or maybe they're thinking of something that maybe we haven't considered that would be really helpful I don't think that so the the people that have said this to me I I don't think they realize how congested it really will be okay so I think talking especially the the the second road that you're going to put through up toward town hall and that back road coming up that's a the parking lot at sh at uh shadik street is is crazy as it is without throwing more traffic through there so that's good to know you if I can add too I think um potential I've heard a lot of um support for the Wickham a too so I think maybe a lot of it might have to do with there's a potential shortterm um downfall of having it a lot of congestion during construction right like that's something that we have all decided that or some of us have decided that that may not be the best option um so I think also just noting the long-term limitations that we have to that site in regards to growth I know it's still a really tight space um and I I believe I'm remembering correctly that it didn't there wasn't a lot of room for expansion there um yes so it's not only just the shortterm inconveniences like those are things that you know of course anyone can Overlook um but it's also the long-term expectations of what that building can provide for the town which I feel like might be really important for us to to just highlight and note um that it's a it's essentially very similar investment to some of our other options but at some point will outgrow it or it's just not going to be dynamic enough for us so maybe in the long term it still isn't the best option for us well I think remember remember now we were we were charged by the SBC as a subgroup to make a to go through this evaluation and a recommendation was made right so you had the other other presentation that had the pros and cons everybody had discussed it and there was a decision made a recommendation brought to the SBC so sharing this information for all the work that was done with the with the finance group and the select board and everybody else coming up I think we really have to focus on why that did why witam field was not selected and it's not just the short-term stuff during construction I remember the conversation about when Sports happen after school and when the high school kids come down and when there's all this stuff going on at those fields that there's it gets really really busy so it's not just during temporary like construction time it's other times and the whatever the educational programming the other things you mentioned about the expansion the playground areas the outdoor areas and stuff a clear decision was made with not recommending Wickam field that has to be that information has to be shared with that group to understand why that decision was made so I understand what you're saying this might be the perfect opportunity to educate everybody and say this is why we did it and then maybe they'll understand oh wow we didn't realize that okay I understand where you're going so so yeah and I I agree I agree with you on that completely um and just to add to that I think that just like in theory it's great to think of a school district as kind of like a One-Stop shop sure right but it's important to not that all those schools have very different needs and very different schedules um so though it would be great for us to drop off all the kids at the same time and for them to be doing the activities the age range and the grades are just they have very different needs so it doesn't logistically work that well for the town it just it looks like it would but logistically it just it doesn't really make as much sense um as it does on paper so when there's the fincom uh select board the the four headed meeting that's coming up on the 21st who of the school building committee is going to be the champion to say hey we have the subcommittee we looked at this and this is the reasoning why and we can provide any information that would support that cuz coming from the designers and the opms we're doing what we were charged to do and you know we've heard about what so I think it really needs to be put to bed and all the information put out there we're happy to support I do think it needs to come from the school building committee's voice though as opposed more so than ours we're happy to also talk about it things that we've talked about but it needs to really be very um clear that sure we looked at it we definitely did our due diligence and we really came to this conclusion and this is why so if I could interject this is Ryan I think that um I think that what you could do is um uh is is to basically to present um you know both the options that were selected and the options that weren't selected and why you know and make the and make the cases the why the group recommended those three options that are before the group that night so and then from that then other members can step up and speak to it because um I I think that Stephen Stacy's points are are good ones and that what we're trying to relate to you is that I think with among the group there does seem to be a consensus but we need to be able to make the effort to educate others who haven't spent the time that we all collectively have put in to um you know to uh educate ourselves and that's really what this is it's it's it's an effort to walk the uh foreheaded monster as you said to explain to them um what's uh you know why we came to those conclusions so that that's all really what we're saying and I and I think between I I know um you know Steve will be at that meeting I will be at that meeting and we can talk about about that but um it just I I think um I I think what really the way to think about it is is that we need um Studio G uh to sort of to Tee It Up for us and then you know we can um then you know Steve and I can try to you know hit the ball off the tea I mean that's that's really what we're talking about just because it's it's a matter of just educating them because remember PE there are other people that that haven't gone through the same education process that we have and that's uh and Kelly will be very helpful with that as well when the time comes St you know Stacy you'll be there so that kind of thing is what I what I would suggest I I can tell you for me I went into this thinking that Wickam was the answer and I came out of it saying no way and I think the thing that that that changed my thought processes when Mar Lee went through and talked about option 31 and talked about that design and the benefits of that and then you look at Wickam and those things just aren't there so that's what kind of got me to it that if we can um I think if we can also relate that to our main goals like one of our main goals is to make this space a community space and with it being so Compact and dense in one space it takes away a lot of that opportunity because students are going to be using it 100% of the time um there's not going to be a lot of open space for the community to use it because there's not going to be a lot of space even for the students that are going to be using it um so that can be a helpful thing to talk about as well because you know we do need to get votes and support for it um and having it at Wickham doesn't really provide much Community um benefits it just it just provides provides maybe a district benefit but not a community benefit yes so I'll be doing that presentation and I will be going through all of the pros and cons the same as what I presented to you and then I'll be going through the evaluation criteria and that was 20 different aspects that were considered for every single one of these options and so by the end of it they'll see that we've really seriously considered every single one of these options and the out of that is that witcom came in dead laugh even below the code upgrade so I think that that is a really powerful outcome Dr P up yeah quick one as to add to that one the other thing would be because get too congested in the place God forbid the conditions we live in now the world we live in you have a lockdown you're really in a bad position over there and also having the community space in two different places you always it's always advantageous to have that so you know the community space does work great for the two two different locations yes having them together wish there was more land available that would be the perfect opportunity but we're not living with the reality here you know and knowing that the space is very limited is best to you know not try to squeeze everything in and the numbers speak for themselves the evaluation score so m yeah I think between the pros and cons and the evaluation I think there's a lot of information to share with people and I think they may come to their um Epiphany like Steve did going in there in one thought and then seeing Oh okay this the due diligence the work was done we've done that exercise here's the results of it here's a voting of it and I'm sure there'll be some dialogue but I think that's the I think that's the perfect way of going about it all right any other any other thoughts about costs because we wanna don't want to be here all night I know just wanted to um so Steve Mitchner will be there with Mary Lee and he's a he's a gentle voice a soft tone a reasonable he's he could sell anything to anybody so so Steve and um Steve mner and Mary Lee will be together for that I'm gonna unfortunately need to miss that one but you're not gonna chime you're not gonna chime in from Japan um but and Stacy leave the foreheaded monster out of the meeting minutes please it's it's been recorded I know it's not a it's not a monster it's a a gentle giant if you will yeah Stacy you were gonna mention something else sorry cut you off nope nope that that was it all right everybody good with with the these initial 10,000 foot estimates and the the exercise that was done to show where the numbers are based on the square footages based on the eligible reimbursements to share everybody good I was just going to give a quick little uh example to sort of give some some context to these numbers this difference between the highest and the lowest the 876 versus 8.40 that's essentially the price of choosing a taso floor over resilient floor like that's the kind of small difference between these options that we're talking and that's why we truly see these as essentially the same yeah yeah finishes all that stuff hasn't even come to play yet yeah okay yep yep all right all right moving on yes All right so uh Michelle and her group along with Kelly has been going really carefully and really thoroughly through the Ed program and looking at literally every single room in the building and what is needed and what is not needed and how these should work together they have been identifying ways that spaces can have more than one use in some cases three or four different uses so trying to maximize the bang for the buck essentially for every single square foot in the building this spreadsheet here is a highlevel version of the huge spreadsheet that we've been looking at that has every single room listed individually this shows the totals for each General category of space that occur is in the building and this is what the msba is going to be looking at when deciding whether or not to approve whether or not they will reimburse for certain Square footages we've been going through this with help from Mike Prolo our Ed planner and he has done this so much he has a really good sense of what the msba is likely to approve what they are not what Dusty is looking for when they're looking how we treat the special education spaces and what the msba is looking for in terms of we're not just asking first space we are demonstrating that the Educators teach in a certain way or they would like to teach in a certain way if they had the space and it's really well thought out even down to the level of having example lessons planned and so the Ed program at this point is over 50 pag and they've really done a fantastic job of going into detail of of thinking this through really carefully and planning to make sure that we're really getting what we need so with that said this chart here shows in this First Column the oh that I don't like that highlighting this First Column shows the square footage of where we are right now in terms of what Michelle and Kelly and their group have decided excited that they really need to meet the educational program the second column is what the msba includes as their just basic guidelines the it's worth noting that the msba puts very little square footage towards the special education category that is because every single District does special EDS differently and they provide supports differently and they have really customized needs and spaces and so what the msba says is all right we'll just say you need these two basic spaces and then you tell us what you need and how you're going to use it and so it requires districts to really lay out very carefully how many classrooms they need how many small groups rooms they need how many offices and collaboration spaces for the Specialists and intervention interventionists that they need and if the district is able to really describe the program and what they need then the msba just approves it it's very very rare that they turn down space for special EDS so this final column here is the most important one and what this shows is that the majority of spaces that are added are in the special ads category that means that the msba is essentially guaranteed to say yes you need the space we will approve it as reimbursable the second highest category is in core academics and this final column I sort of summarize what is making up that square footage uh so I'll take this section by section core academics this is just the regular classroom for grades kindergarten through two the msba spreadsheet does a you put in the enrollment number and then it populates the number of classrooms that you need and it's just purely a calculation and so what happens very frequently is that they'll give you in this case they gave us 13 classrooms for grades one and two which means that you have an uneven number of classrooms between the two grade levels so usually what we do is we just request one additional classroom so that you have the same number for both grade levels the next piece of that is something that they're calling the academic suite and this is the math and reading support Specialists they provide services for all students uh at any time to help them just get through whatever they're struggling with in math and reading that's a few Specialists plus some small group space andace next is the imaginatorium space uh the msba for grade three and above and if you're under grade three then they assume that that is done in just a regular classroom however Shaker Lane has the imag tutorium it's a very wellestablished program it is a program that they've had for a long time and they really use it and they try to embed it throughout the other uh the other activities that the students are doing and so what we're doing here is instead of one classroom that's the imaginatorium that the students go to we are breaking that space up so that each grade level neighborhood has some square footage from that classroom and then there's an additional fifth space where we're storing pieces of equipment that the students can look at because it's really cool to see things like 3D printing and laser cutting and the wind tunnel but it's not necessarily things that the students are going to be touching themselves so the name we gave that is a Creation Station this ends up being 850 square feet which is exactly the same size as the imaginatorium you have right now so the MSP is likely to approve that because you already have this program we're not asking for more square footage over what you are using right now then the final category is these Extended Learning dens that is what we're it's uh maybe you've heard it called a project area or a learning Commons uh schools call these a lot of different things but basically this is the space where you're spilling out of the classroom you're sharing resources among teachers uh you're sharing things like science equipment or art equipment or syns or uh library books things like that that make more sense as a shared resource uh for each grade level all right then these additions here are very small this is basically just making sure that the the staff are going to be able to have their lunch in a reasonable amount of time and a reasonable distance from the cafeteria and they're able to sort of have that socializing that anybody wants with their colleagues and their co-workers just making sure that it's the right size for the number of people who are going to be using it medical this is the nurse's office we're asking for another toilet room that's large enough to accommodate a changing table which is really important for this young age group of kids and then also an isolation room which is basically just a an enclosed exam room with a cot so that if a child is really sick with stomach bug or covid or some other really contagious issue they have a a room where they're not coughing and sneezing all over everybody else in the room and they just wait there until their parents come and get them so it's a very small app overall in admin and guidance we're just asking for the msba gives you a small work room to be shared among everyone and we find that it's better to do two of these one on each floor so that teachers are more likely to use it it's close at hand it can be used for collaboration among all the student all the teachers and it's a little bit bigger because uh especially for this age group you have a lot of spreading out materials and coating papers to create you know packets or you're creating decorations for your bulletin boards or you need really space to spread out and work so these all are small asks we don't see any we don't foresee any issues with the msba approving those and then the final category is the prek and a couple other very small spaces so PRK classrooms we are asking for 12200 square foot each which is in alignment with what the msba will Reimers for a prek classroom then we're asking for an 80q foot mother's room which is vation room right now they're working with a 28 square foot closet essentially and then the other thing we are adding is just a small kitchenet area in the administration so just enough for a refrigerator a sink coffee machine and microwave so very small ask for those two alog together we're asking for just under 20,000 square feet over what the msba list as their guidelines and then when you apply a grossing factor of 1.5 which accommodates for all the circulation space all the mechanical space to support this the thickness of the walls things like that uh it's 29,000 over the msba guidelines now we spoke to Mike pero about this number just to see where that falls in his experience is this reasonable is it unreasonable and he was surprised at actually how low it was uh several projects that he's working on right now have quite a bit higher numbers for this so I know that looking at this number you think oh my goodness that sounds like a really high number but generally for schools who are going through this process it's on the low average side of things just a good text to make sure that we're not going off the rails here that we're not you know doing crazy wish list Pie in the Sky ideas these are really wellth thought out spaces that Michelle and Kelly and their groups have identified as what they will need and use in the new school any comments or questions on this I do have a question this is all like really really good information and I feel like you did a really good job organizing it um in a way that we can all kind of understand it um one thing that I had that just kind of popped up in my mind was in our earlier discussions the msba is giving reimbursement for our current needs right and then they gave us a little bit of EX additional space knowing that the town is growing but not much um are these wefo foot estimates including that potential growth and how does that affect the costs that we just looked at yes this is based on the enrollment of 435 which is what was included or approved by the msba when you went through the whole statement of Interest getting into the msba pipeline process that's 435 in grades K through two and then the number of preschoolers we are estimating that at approximately I want to say 40ish or so students uh we are looking at maximum of 15 or so in each of the prek classrooms more likely it's going to be closer to around 12 or so but there is potential for growth in the PK the rest of the number the 435 uh that was said a long time ago by the msba okay um so are these Square footed numbers included in the reimbursement rates that we have because it was my understanding I'm sorry from not being clear with that with my understanding that any additional space that we wanted to have once that analysis is done for the potential growth for the town the msba that's just not what they reimburse for but right now we are currently building for a building that will fit our current needs plus a little bit of wiggle room but anything beyond that will add to those costs that we just discussed if it turns out that so there's sort of two two different things here there's the enrollment of 435 I'll just ignore prek for now but the 435 and that what it sounds like that's the number that already has the little bit of wiggle room above what you have enrolled right now is that correct I don't have the number no I don't I'm sorry I wish I did but I don't have those numbers I don't have our numbers in front of me okay Mary so yes that's correct so we're about we're about 450 and 30 uh 30 to 40 of those are preschool kids so yes okay okay so when we add square footage here this is not square footage for more students beyond the 435 this is square footage to meet the needs of those 435 students so when the msba looks at this they first look at the Ed program and say is this space well defended and well thought out and does the district truly need this or are they just popping in extra square feet with the Edge program progr as I've seen so far they've spent a ton of time on this and it's extremely well uh documented and very much demonstrated that these spaces will be used and are needed for the delivery of education at Deer Lane so the msba will say that this number is reimbursable which means that the square footage is subject to the 48% of the 605 per square foot rate so the number that the msba gives to the town will go up proportionately but also the town Shir will also go up proportionally and that's why the the dollar per square foot was most important to look at because when we're looking at pricing the square footage is not yet set if that if that makes sense yes no that definitely yes okay that that that definitely makes sense um and if I can boot back to like our current conversation about the Wickham a property so we know that msba is just they're going to cover a certain percentage of kind of like our current students with a little bit of tiny bit of wiggle room and in our conversation with trying to talk about wickom AV I think it's really important to note that those additional costs that we are going to have from the town are going to be 100% either way whether it's from witam or whether it's from another site but in Wickham it is nearly nearly impossible or will be very expensive for us to add that space if the time comes that there's some type of evaluation that all of this new development is going to increase our um student student population um yes yeah and that's that's a great point because the msba when we submit fees uh I think when when we've got it down to one oftion the msba asks us to demonstrate that we could do a classroom edition of I think four classrooms and that is to accommodate growth in the district beyond what the msba enrollment number is and so if you can't find room on the site to add four more classrooms then that means you have to build up and that's when it starts getting really expensive or not feasible to expand if you do get beyond the 435 so yes that that's a great Point great thank you H Michelle did you have your hand up I I did I was just going to chime in I wonder if Stacy was reflecting on our statement of interest because we do have an additional classroom Stacy for every grade level K1 and two um so I just thought I would add that in because that was in our um so I right so that's in our statement of interest but is that reimb that's not reimbursable by msda or it is included oh I see so right now in the school you have six classrooms per grade level and the msba space summary template when you put in the 435 number they give you 13 classrooms for grades one and two which is six and a half classrooms and then we're asking for this additional classroom rounded up to seven classrooms per grade level so that extra classroom is already planned for the 435 students that's not going to be an ad for the district okay so marily if we can relate these numbers to what we saw on the costs so the cost that you showed on the previous page was based on the 73850 right uhuh and if we're adding 29,000 square feet at $876,000 to this project am I correct this is where we move past comparing Apples to Apples and we start to think about how can we together reduce the dollar per square foot like what choices can we make when we're designing the structural system or the mechanical system or uh other major pieces of the building to reduce the square footage so just for comparison uh approximately for the Florence for school that we just toured it was a $655 per square foot when it came down to it and that project was done through covid and all the escalation that happened there so this 876 per square foot is very much on the high side for what we think we can accomplish so yes and no basically uh if you're looking purely at these numbers then yes it would be taking this number of square footage adding the additional square footage and doing that math but in reality we're going to work really hard to reduce this number as much as possible just to get some reality into it though see even if we were able to reduce that to the 650 29,000 square feet is still another $8 to19 million so we're talking close to100 million school is that 77 and 20 97 yeah I wish I had more accurate numbers from Florence Road care uh but Mark or S if you want to if there's anything you want to add about this I think if till we know what the square footage the MSP will allow and once we make that determination that's when we start scaling back to see right now we have to go on the basis of that they will allow you no extra square footage and so comparing you like on the next slide which mer Le shows on the you know the 73845 foot that's what is per guidelines right now will they will they allow more how much will they allow hopefully all the 9 29,000 they might allow 25,000 so where do we take the number do we I mean we can change the number on the bottom line to 100 this the new number 103,000 square foot that's going to change drastically on the total dollar values and I I can do that actually that's that shouldn't take too long so if I can just jump in while the as quick math um so go ahead I I was because I have the Excel spreadsheet so let me just share my screen for a second sure sure can you see my screen okay so these numbers now change when I change this to 103,000 square ft just in this new construction I didn't do the renovation ad but just you know but if you do the same thing over here at 29 30,000 29,000 that'll be 100,000 there and 100,000 on 101,000 over here okay so the district share keeps going you know baseb dvb keeps going up yep so that's what you're going to see as you move it from one to the other one but we don't know about that till till we really get to the point where do we stand with the MSP with the whole project right and that's why it's a comparative it's these numbers are not going to we're not holding tight to these numbers it's more comparing one to another when we did that cost estimate that was two three weeks ago when the Ed program was still being massaged as far as needs so we just had to do it at some point to start the process to understand the numbers so we're chasing a little bit here understandably but that's why it's a comparative cost analysis opposed to like here's your cost estimate so that's the delta in the difference right and as marily and as marily said she that your the estimator made on assumption for specials HVAC and those might be way on the high end you know so when the reality comes in and you start looking at efficiencies in those items those numbers will still come down and it was I think Marl you brought it to my attention Steve the original RFS that went out for the project had a range of 15 to 75 million construction cost cost so 20 to 25% on top of that for total cost so now that's around 90 95 million you know as the overall total project cost so initially these numbers right now seem to be in that ballpark but there's a long way to go as far as estimated but this was just a total cost comparison overall based on square footage so and and the cost Square foood would not go exactly the same because it'll fall down a little bit think about you're putting a two-story addition to the building not a single storage so you only have half the roof so you're not putting 30,000 foot of roof you're only putting 15,000 more square foot of roof so that all those factors will come into place as to what gets approved and where do we stand with a number okay 8:30 everybody good with the space summary any other questions at all for space summary because we got some cool plans to look at I I'll to comment that the the Ed program where all of the the square footage is based on the msba has us do a couple different versions of that so these numbers are still just based on a first goor round of this and the longer that Kelly and Michelle and their team been thinking about this and figuring this out then the spaces are going to get more refined and more precise and it's possible that we find other ways to stare spaces and that number might go down it might go up slightly but there are opportunities for us to keep revisiting it and find ways to make sure that we're not adding unnecessary square footage and we're not committed to the square footage I'd say until Town vote for the so we still have this is consider this a draft in the sense we'll review with the msba there's a chance to go back this is not set in stone all of the above so it's still again this is feasibility so it's very what's feasible is really the gist of it so we're seeing what we're seeing what we can do so all right next couple of slides basically uh we've been trying to develop diagrammatic floor plans so I'll show it to you in a second basically we are showing the most of the spaces and just general organization about how things work it does not include every single little toilet room every single little small group room but it shows the general organization of the building and the adjacency of which spaces want to be close by which spaces want to be in the middle in the more community area and uh how we want to do outdoor learnings and other connections throughout the building so we are showing walls here but this is very very preliminary this is mostly just to sort of diagram out how the spaces work in the building so at this point we're looking for the new construction option at a twot often where we have pre and kindergarten on the first floor and above them we have grade two and grade one we have the media center and the cafeteria here in the core of the building as well as access to the gym so after hours this would be the community core that could be opened up for others to use and then the the learning areas could be shut down and completely closed off so there's no access to that after hours we have started to look at how circulation generally Works where the main entrance is who is next to the main entry to control access and make sure that only people who belong in the building are coming in and we're starting to think about what happens when there is an event like the second graders do a performance or maybe there's a preschool graduation how deep into the school are we allowing visitors to go for those activities we're also thinking about how we are dispersing the caled and support spaces throughout the building rather than clumping them all together Jesse likes to see them scattered throughout so that students who are receiving supports don't have to travel and go to a special special ed area where there might be a stigma associated with that rather they're allowed to stay in their learning Dead with their peers and still receive the support that they need so there's a lot of thinking that goes into this it's continually massage and massage massage and as we uh get closer and closer to the final rooms and areas then this is going to get more and more detailed but generally this is the direction things are moving for the new Option this right here is going to fit on the upper field options so a 3.1 preferred new construction option and then the third option that we talked about moving forward into PSR is going to be option 3.2 new construction on that lower field this building with more massaging would also fit on that site as well so this is more just like nothing nothing to vote on here just being transparent and open about the process of how this building goes from a list of rooms to an actual real building next is the ad Reno option so this is showing the existing school here with here rather with the existing academic Wing having been demolished with some of these spaces being shifted around such as right now the media center is right here we're proposing to move it into the existing gymnasium space making a couple of moves to expand the kitchen and the back of house expand the admin into the newly vacated Library area and finding ways to reconfigure this space to meet the needs as outlined in the Ed program and the space summary template and then doing an addition of the academic Wing the classes the the learning dens for each of the four grade levels and and also a a new gym here and so same say here this is very diagrammatic this is just laying out the space to see generally what shape the building is starting to take and how things fit together and relate to each other any questions or comments on the floor plans either adreno or new construction all right this was all we wanted to share today all right so I think we Lo it looks like Mike had a step off but Michelle was there today anybody that was at the tour today have any comments that they want to bring up about the Florence roach build building thought it was great it looks really really wonderful nice design and thought the space has flowed beautiful and finishes the lighting everything was wonderful but it was good to see a almost a concrete example of what you all are going to be trying to achieve as well it's nice to have a neighbor with that example right there so for sure Kudos Mary and Merill it was beautiful they had different than us and I she's like your vision oh oh geez well I'm home hopefully he breaking up you're breaking up a little yeah is this better yes okay well now I'm not on my uh cellular Wi-Fi now I'm actually in the house I just I just want to say I appreciate marily so much because she is truly looking at our vision and listening to our staff and everything in the Ed plan that is close to 60 Pages now it's like giving birth again to another child but I just app appreciate your openness marily you're you're so wonderful it's just it's it's going to be exciting to see this all come come to to be one day yeah we we are also very very excited and it's so wonderful to work with a district that is so dedicated and it's putting in so much effort into planning this and care so much about the kids and what they need and there's a little here the kindergarten I love it I really I really love the SCH project and I'm really excited the team is amazing all of your staff are fantastic and it just it's so far it's been amazing and I can't wait to see where we go well you see the reality of everything that we're talking about tonight you know what the Ed plan is what your vision is now how does it come to fruition right now the reality comes in of planning cost you know where it's going to be located Etc so having that that Baseline to build off of is exactly the direction we're going so you're you're probably never going to do this again in our lifetime so go for that Golden Ring you know make it work get what you know you need for the students and for your your plan and for the community there will be push back there'll be you know wins and losses but this is the opportunity right now you saw those those additional diagrammatic floor plans that's coming together based on what the numbers are generally are coming together where the sites maybe are coming together still at a preliminary level but all that good thinking and all that good work is now starting to show it's that recipe is starting to bake a little bit so that's that's wonderful so everybody's input has been has been really incredible it's still a long way to go um there's a lot of hurdles and things costs are always a big thing we know what's coming um we have work that needs to be done for the end of the month this is August is going to be a busy month we are we are looking to submit the DB the the PDP on the 30th we're get and we're getting the approval on the meeting on the 28th which was moved from the 21st which I didn't update on the schedule which I have to do so now the 21st is the joint meeting to share all this information with everybody so they all hopefully are at the same level of knowledge so we don't have much push back going forward because the time frame is you know tight but it's doable so you know kudos for for doing this stuff um sorry it went so late because we had a little late start is there any other comments questions concerns quandaries that people have Merl so Studio G will be sending to to uh to Mark and SES tomorrow by noon we're going to be sending a draft of the PDP it's not perfect it's missing things but this is a chance because you're gonna have you the SBC the whole at the SBC not just this commit the subcommittee but the SBC is going to need to vote to say yes we reviewed it and we agree that this is good to go to the msba so this is a preview for you you'll have another chance but this is the draft that we would love your input on we're going to ask for um and we'll have this these instructions by email but this is I realize this is a smaller subgroup but we're going to be looking for feedback and input by I believe the 14th of August so just emails not to each other but to uh I guess Mark and SES and also to Mary Lee myself and probably Taylor who a few of you met today so we're going to be considering all all questions and input that we can contribute to this PDP so that's the link marrow to the bo to the box is that where it's going to be in the shared box likely we'll put it in the shared box yes yeah it's gonna be it's gonna be pretty big so yeah yeah so we'll do it electronically that way um yeah so there's a lot of paperwork we don't have all the paperwork for you yet we have placeholders for we have confirmation letters we have title searches things we talked about before that that are in progress but we don't have them all full fully done yet but so all information is going to be there so as Merl said please if you have an opportunity to take a look at it any your comments they'll they'll let you know exactly how to respond to us uh but we don't we do not want to miss that date on the 30th we want to make sure that we get that in because they take their time to review it then we have our time to respond to their review and that's you've seen in the schedule before we'll update that on the 28th as well yeah we want to give everybody as much of a chance as possible to review the PDP so some people choose not to look at it or they just look at a few key sections that they really care about because it is a long document but we want people going into that meeting on the 28th with feeling confident that they can make an educated vote on that Stacy yes no I just wanted to ask because I know we have a lot of deadlines coming up and a lot of important decisions to make um I had just looked at my calendar and I I know we have a lot of meetings coming up but I don't have anything I don't have any invites in my calendar so I just didn't know if those invites have been sent out or if they're still just kind of up in the air they have not no we're okay we had a little bit of a miscommunication snafu with the meeting yesterday not being posted um we've we've clarified that now um Kelly has directed me to work D with Dorothy to post all the meetings and with Steve Moore because the subcommittee is kind of different than this SBC the subcommittee was to do something on their own well I'll make sure with Dorothy that's going to work and then I'll continue with Steve Mo so really the two dates that we're looking at is the 21st and the 28th right I mean the 21st is the shared meeting the 28th is the next SBC meeting so those are the only two and I'm hoping it w't won't probably happen by tomorrow but definitely early next week we'll get all that information posted the only issue is we have to we have an agenda that we have to put together for the meeting so we don't want to put it out too early we like to do it like a week before at least so they can look at the agenda to make make sure that these are the things you're going to talk about and we need to talk with Ryan and a few other people about the agenda for the shared meeting to make sure we are efficient and what we're going to bring up and talk about and I don't know if we what kind of time frame we have do we have 30 minutes do we have 20 minutes we have to work all that out but we're going to try we're going to shoot for a week before to get that information out to everybody make sure they get it on their calendar so hopefully no more communication snafus as we continue on but those are the two dates that anybody else correct me I those are the only two dates I see coming up that the 21st and the 28th that we're meeting we're not meeting again on the 17th right that was a discussion but I don't think that's happening right yeah so those are the two dates Stacy and will we'll get those out to sooner than later okay thank you I appreciate that and those are those going to be virtual or in person right now the SBC and the 28th will remain virtual right now there's a discussion of a hybrid meeting on the 21st okay that I think the select board they're talking about having it at the library see a lot of the a lot of tbds there's a lot of yeah okay if it's in the largest space in the library then maybe it would be great to have people there are in in person and then those that can can can go in virtually like marow wol from Japan so you know so that's being determined once that's determined that'll come out with with all the information for the meeting the 28 already thank the I'm sorry the 21st is already posted on the town website there it is does it say okay but it's not but we don't have the invitation invites though right like none of the invites have been sent out yet but they they will be I guess is what I just want to make sure that those will be sent out yeah we're GNA make sure going forward that either with the subcommittee with the the people still post the public but they get the invitations and in the SBC meetings they get the invitations it's not the Matt scramble at the end to go in and find the meeting number and because you don't have a link you know just want make sure everybody gets a link everybody's life's busy it's much easier to open up link on then ah I gotta go find the number and all that so we're gonna we're going to clean all that up awesome thank you no and I appreciate you your work you guys have been doing a phenomenal job so I really really appreciate that I don't want to miss don't want to miss anything else so yeah thank you very much we're excited you're very welcome it's uh it's a cool project and I think the the opportunities are are endless so and we're not stopp in Octo you know August 30th September gonna be busy too so we got more to do so it it only it's busier believe it or not but that's that's you know we're building on everything else that's a good foundation um any other any other questions or concerns from anybody and now we're not voting so we don't need to say you know let's get an agenda to get out of here but it's quarter nine thanks everybody much for taking their evening um have a great trip ladies when people head out if we don't talk to you again and uh well any questions please reach out to us uh we'll be pulling the information together in the comments that you might have for the PDP and we'll we'll tighten it all up hey the football player what's he doing in there I don't realized 21 love it all right if if nothing else from anybody thanks so much have a great night and we talk bye everyone have a safe trip have a trip take care