##VIDEO ID:ejcOmnvwhRs## evening and welcome to the shake Elan School building committee meeting August 23rd V agenda but a lot of information to get to have plan updates and cost L this overview outline special presentation coming up so right now I'll turn it over to Studio G we have some updates to great to no Goods at this so thanks again everybody for joining us this evening we're going to be doing a design update we shared a lot of this information last week when we were here so we're going to give a higher level this time but I welcome everyone to check the lgtv as far as um see the previous design iterations that we've been exploring were what everyone's most excited to see are the cost estimate updates and then prepar us for the special Town me which is happening next Tuesday so uh again we always start with project goals this is our Baseline what we always come back to when tough decisions need to be made as far as the project goes and then of course we have our friends at the msba which are keeping us on track for this project so essentially last week we gave a pretty robust design project update today we're here to talk about the box so that orange colored in box orange for October um then next October 29th we're going to we're gonna talk uh to the community special town meeting which we're excited to give our 10-minute overview we first um for the first article so looking forward to um Shar where we are in the press and then the following next school building committee meeting on November 6 we are going to determine the SBC is going to look at um which design option we're going to move into schematic design which is the next module as part of the msca all right so looking around it seems like nearly everybody here was here last week so I'm not going to spend a ton of time rehashing this information we can talk about it more at the end once we get through the cost Stu if anybody is interested so this slide was just about the work that's been done to reduce the square footage from when we first looked that at it back in August this is an explanation of the square footage and where it's coming from a couple of caveat on here in the nsba guidelines they have a really small number for special education and that's because they allow districts to really customize their own programs so they have a lot of freeway in here in terms of the districts being able to really customize that for themselves next caveat is the msba guidelines does not include pread so that number is zero and so third caveat down here is if you factor in the district special ed programs plus the prek the msba Baseline number would be closer to 86,000 so that's the number that we're comparing it to uh right now for the new construction option we're at just over 97,000 and for the Adeno bit under that this to give a visual representation sometimes staring at these numbers is not the most easily understood for these particular categories that I've calleded out here these are major deficits that the school has right now for example the most striking example is their existing gymnasium is less than half of what it's supposed to be the media center is dramatically undersized other spaces are really undersized so this is just to really draw attention to where some of the square footage is coming from and why the new option is so much larger than existing school all right we have three options that we are considering now we will be narrowing this down on November 6th first option is an addition inovation where we have a new addition here that is classroom Wings a few other spaces but we're calling it an academic Edition then a new fullsize gymnasium we are demolishing the existing anemic wing and then keeping this portion of the existing school and then for a quick peek inside this is what it looks like the majority of the school will be single level and then the portion of the school that is two levels is the academic weight so there would be a new elevator and stairs associated with this initia the other thing I want to point out on these is the division between Community use spaces versus School use only spaces because I think that is the an important factor when it comes into selecting which one of these options is the best choice for the district because it is a it's a town project could a benefit everybody in the community so this is an important thing to look at next option is a new constru option on what we're calling the Upper field both because it's further to the north and it's also higher in elevation uh this would be able to be fully constructed while the existing school is in sessioned so minimal disruptions to the students as they go through this process uh save separate passages for a Bus Loop and car Loop and then peeking inside we have uh you'll notice it's very different from your typical Corridor arrangement we have a cluster of classrooms around a central learning area each one of these clusters is a grade level so on the first floor we've got preschool and kindergarten and upstairs we have first grade and second grade on this one the community use spaces are here directly off of the entry Lobby and the school use only is more protected in the back with the play area in the back with all the wooded area around here so what this does is it takes everything from this part of the building and down and that is potentially available for Community use okay all right third update is new construction on the lower field this one is also able to be fully constructed while the existing pool is in use to minimize disruption to the students on the inside this is arranged similar to the other one where the community ed spaces are right here off the lobby so after hours people can come in and have direct access to those spaces without accessing the rest of the school that includes a media center up on the second floor we would like to point out these plans are still very diagrammatic and we will be pushing whichever one is selected will be pushing the design forward and making big advancements so the final design might look pretty different from this but the concepts are here of what the the district would like to achieve so on this one the community use area would be sort of in the core here plus the upper field which would go down to just one baseball or softball Diamond the other one is needed for room for the school and then this space right here what St the building is demolished that can be opened up for Recreation soccer fields okay any questions on those options before I move on you just on the on the last mention you had talking about the two two Fields ball fields y um so below where it says option 3.2 where it is looks like a parking lot right yep that's where the it's called K white the gravel you that's softball field now oh yes that no yeah so right now there's three there's three diamonds down there there diamond with Which is closest to go through the wood path there's one to your right there's one out again the upper you um so the one that's closest to the existing playground is called Cam that is eliminated so field in the back is Cooper just by this this field with 3.21 is called the Shak thank you anybody else all right so we started off this process with six options and they were narrowed down to three back at the end of the first phage of this the Shaker Lane School building committee decided together on a list of evaluation criteria to apply to all of those options they went through an exercise of individually ranking each option in terms of how well they successfully met all of these goals and then after that was done there were three pretty clear Front Runners to this process so now we are going to do something very similar again the SBC is going to look at this and see if they want to make any tweaks or additions or reword anything make sure that they're still happy with this list once that's agreed upon then they will evaluate all three options again and out of that we will end up with a single selection that's probably going to be a lot of discussion that happens it's not just going to be fill out a number and whatever wins wins there will be discussion the cost is going to be included in this discussion but it's going to be more heavily weighed than a lot of the other uh components so there's a lot that goes to this decision other than just cost for educational impact or sustainability it's a huge list of things uh it's a really tough decision to make it's very important for the the town the district and so it's important that as much thought and care as possible go them to make this decision the goal is to reach an agreement on which option is best and vote for it during the November 6 meeting comments or questions so excuse me so it's just the slbc that's taking that survey because other Stak holders already had their input earlier in the process that's so um we're about to show you what estimates came back we had the pmnc our cost estimator as well as tth had cost estimator to look at the material that was put before them to estimate uh the option that we've been looking at and showed you last week um we had those for about a day so there's a lot of work put in to level those where they're not exactly the same at this point but they're close enough to be considered level so the numbers that you see will be know the consider the level to estimate between those two estimators we we will likely have some time to continue to look at those numbers uh before that vote that very Le's talking about um we'll also be talking about the msba reimbursements um those uh that would be the portion that msba could contribute to this project uh we know that they will since we're in this in this uh msba um project pathway however um what we don't know is the exact number so the range that we show you is based on the best information that we have now and historic information that we've had so far but basically what happens is at the at some point um after schematic design there's an agreement with the msba and that percentage is agreed on at that time and throughout the life of the project that will be the maximum number that the msba contribute to the project so let's take a look at the next slide so these are the numbers that came back uh you can see uh three options here on the left sort of in the grade out was what the numbers were last so um as we expected with some efficiencies in the actual laying out of the plants um this the cost began to come down um because we were able to tighten up the size of the building and um you'll see really option the new construction options are fairly close and the real difference there is site cost and some of that we're at a very early stage um I think we could achieve the site costs in um similar site costs for either 3.1 or 3.2 so when you look at those numbers even though it's it's about a million apart um you can consider those relatively equal um by the time more designed thoughts this so by by stating that it's designed the site costs essentially the upper field is further away the utilities would have to be constructed further away from where they currently are that's the lar part right in in the current estimate however we haven't it is possible that those utilities could come off of road so the what I guess what I'm saying is it's a little too early to tell if if that's for sure that we'd have to run that much utility so exactly rockberry so um so that's that's the piece that um you know with what we know now based on the narratives that we're put together that is a large difference that's correct utilities it's all new utilities running and really from main stream the the building difference the and this is a very uh this isn't broken down as much much as we have on the estimate so this is digestable here but the building cost between the two is within 100,000 in the estimate so um and you know just to remember on the ad Renault um that is a smaller building and uh even though it is less expensive it would not yield uh as much of um it does not fulfill the the program requirements as successfully as 3 point as the new construction options do just because of the limitation of the piece that work uh that would be kept dur the renovation so um could I ask what the differences and probably said this but between the estimated total project cost and the construction manager at risk would you real quick there's two delivery methods that uh chapter 149 149a that the MBA would like you to investigate okay of the project uh TDP is designed bid build which is what was the normal method for many years where an architect puts together with fulls set of documents they put it out to bid general contractor bids on it they bid the building okay instruction manager at risk 1498 Massachusetts law has a contractor construction manager showing the project in design and design development construction documents and look at potential savings either at early bid packages or different equipment they try to bring in savings at the time the difference is they're held to what they call a guaranteed maximum price when they finish working with the Architects they come out at the end and say this project is going to cost you $90 million not a penny more and they have to stay to that as they go through constructing it okay so there's two methods that we can we will investigate with the Committees the best method that will be for this project and there is a significant difference in costs it's like a six% upgrade yeah so you'll see four or five million difference in but is guarantee against overruns but but the the construction manager is a guarantee against over they they're supposed to produce a guaranteed maximum price is part of their process okay so but they're involved early so you're paying them yeah where the difference in the costs are going to be but so if you're into a very complicated project a lot of phasing a lot of like early site work early seal work whatever it's worth it having someone to organize all those parts if you've got a project standing alone and it's kind of easy maybe tbp is the best way to go so that's something that as we continue with what option is being determined we'll work with the committee and the MP to determine what the best delivery method that construction manager at risk is there um do they also go help us find grants um things um monies that federal and state might have for little tiny towns that really need a new school not typically need not typically but what they do in in that in those um looking for cost opportunities is as Mark was saying um they would be involved they can put out uh construction packages while we're still finishing design so and and what that allows let's say there would be a plan because they're involved very early on so they would determine they would help the the district determine based on schedule needs and market conditions if there are things that should happen early site work is often one of those things but an example of a recent project that we did um the metal the long spin metal joists were very hard to get three years ago right so they knew those had to be bought very early so they worked with us and our structural engineer to decide all the things that we need to know we fixed those design points okay we're going to decide this is what it's going to be we won't change that even though we're still designing the rest of the building but those were able to be ordered so that by the time the construction actually needed it they were there so there's no DeLay So it's so if they don't guarantee against cost overruns they their their job is to do their best to keep it from happening yeah there's there are many pieces that they bring to um there's a lot of value that they bring to the project but it is it is a decision there is a the cost is because they're very involved so they have a lot of Staff that's bringing that value to to the project thank you so much I have no idea than just just so you know the library and the Senor Center Center shadic were both built under SE okay yeah yeah to be Jim and Ryan I think they to be oh cost overrun guarantee not is really a good thing cost overruns are real library was very unque site as well so a lot just I would put to that too is that anything that's initiated by the owner uh for change orders of that sort is not within the guaranteed price so uh so when the guaranteed price is within the things that are in their control but if the owner comes to them and says you know we want another closet of this space that wasn't in the original design so that is something that would outside the contract change within the contract but with but it's generated by the owner yeah yeah so just keep just something to keep in mind of we just don't want to stay in a blanket way because U you know their cost can go over the price but it needs to be Ty something self initiated by the owner but but there's Sly contingencies built into those prices as well if they see that contingency then that might be the case but sometimes there's an no contingency there's a contractor contingency of unknowns because you know there are unknowns in this world so they have to have a little bit back guess that happens so we're so sorry these cost assessments based off a prices or projected prices going to be go to bid in two or three years that's they they have escalation built into that and we'll like to come back to that in a moment on the next slide just for compar um well I just wanted to close the loop when that CMR versus dbb decision is going to happen because there's a lot of numbers up here and we can get rid of of them pretty much so essentially we're looking at after we submit the pfr the refer SCH medic report in early December that's where we're going to come to you all and say hey which one would you rather pursue so we can narrow down a bit so we're not looking at both options forur go forward so it'll be a another deeper discussion more what you heard today was pretty high level but we do have um reason for both and looking forward to the discussion at that point so it will be it will be narrowed down December January let's put it that way and the msba weighs too so they're part of the process what was the escalation Clause percentage increase over the next few years I don't remember off the estimate I can get back to you or not but but I can tell you right now um we're going to look at the next slide what the estimator gave us for a sort of a comparison is let's just we'll look at this for a second go back sure these are projects that have been um approved by the msba reached into schematic design uh and that was their estimated cost in the last these are all msba elementary schools you know within the last year or so um so you can see that those are the square foot i' like to focus on the square footage clost numbers the project the three estimates that we were looking at are in the you know 880 range on the on $880 S would on the previous slide what the estimators told us is uh about $50 of that um $880 square foot represents the escalation so if we were to subtract that $50 of escalation and say those this project was bid about the same time that all these other school got did but finished St at about the same time these were it would be right in the middle of this pack of square footage cost we're looking sometimes we look at the cost of different metrics square footage cost is is a good sort of leveling thing to look at there a lot of different drivers to that difficult sites truck ad mention or you know different types of construction we can usually control you know the the the materials that go into that size of the building s's a little bit more of a difficult thing to work with um so you can see we could go back let's go back to that last slide just in case folks have other questions uh these costs which have been you know have escalation built in um we are in the middle of the pack of what other districts are building for elementary schools you have a question and and at the bottom we talked a little bit about this but the bottom is that row of with the so you can see there's both the cost for for dbb designed to build or CMR and those blue lines there either way the the contribution range from the msba we estimate to be these numbers that we're showing right here they was say yesterday when we were collectively talking to our Consultants because these numbers came in yesterday essentially we said how does this feel like what's the gut check on the cost per square foot the building seems on par now lower so the numbers that we were getting for the Shing project seem on par and they do estimates for all of Massachusetts least our design so it doesn't feel strous as far as what were presenting here today we car 8% exp thank you than next that's year or % I'm sorry instruction thank you depending on anybody have any questions on this slide somebody else raise hand M hi can you hear me yes um yeah I was just curious if uh so Harvard just built a new school within the last year or two where do where where do they fit into this I I feel like it might be advantageous for us to list them here for a comparison as opposed to these I think a lot of these are much bigger than us obviously square footage is similar but I was just curious if there's if there was any thought put into including them in this table we could definitely we could definitely bring them into this they're um I don't know if that's published just yet we um but we could certainly we're talking about the hill the H elementary school is that the one that you're speak we just y that's the one so I believe they opened in 2021 there was that pandemic that happened might remember so um so we will certainly get back to you about that and we have that information available these are all within the past year which is where these came from so there's especially given the state of the world in the past five years It's tricky to go much further back because of just the pandemic and how that impacted construction cost well solid you know supermarkets and so forth so that really um change change the economy of it so but we can certainly leave this as we can also share the numbers of the Florence roach school that was in Bron which gives a neighbor as well so I would say this cost is not out of line of what what um that project Sol we do know actual escalation amounts from previous projects so maybe we can put together a chart similar to this with local projects and then apply the escalation to figure out what they would have costed today's dollars to help get a more apples to apples comparison I think I think the the scale is something to consider but also the um the moment in time is an important thing to and that's we're building in that's usually the that is one of the big controlling factors what's happening for is available question on the samples that you showed option one two and three uh are we talking about uh add on to the current school or we talking about building a new school uh the first one on the first colum that's an addition in renovation so you keep about about half of it it's the new and then take down and build it build a new classroom way to that so it's that's why we call it renovation and addition as you have to uh but the thing to note about I'm glad you ask because this option even though it is a you know it's a renovation you do have to think about it the way um because of the energy codes that are required the systems for this building will be all new without even in the existing part of the building so yes parts will be kept like this existing structure but even the envelope you know the exterior walls we need to demolish because those won't pass the energy f as well so in a way it's like we're going to agree to reuse the bones of part of the building the rest of question how is the school going to operate when you want to do that um that ask you to state your name and your street please okay my name is Jord Sanders 62 great welcome all right so here's a zoomed in plan of the addition renovation option dashed in down here is the portion of the building that is that would be slated to be demolished so essentially what would happen is number one this new academic Wing Edition is built as well as the gymnasium number two these kids move into their new classrooms so at this point we have an empty academic Wing so all of the administrative spaces the media center all of these offices would move into those empty classrooms and sort of have temporary setups while their spaces are being renovated then then once these are demolished they move back in and then demolish that last but yeah great question I just clarify that new construction the addition I should say the addition instruction is our playground correct yes so our four five five six and seven year olds would not have a playground or we'd have to figure out a playround for a few years one question has that instruction there is going to tie into the SE system over there yeah we're so right now we're exploring what the options are and this for this one it wouldn't uh the current design is um sized to meet the number of students that will the increase of number of students that would be in this building um this would require approval for the Board of Health to reuse what's existing there because um the engineer that maintain system as noted that it still has some life that's correct at the same time um there were the reason that it's not on site right now is previous explorations of the site could find spot for it um as part of this project we're loc we're really scrubbing the rest of the site to make sure that um there just see if there's any possibility to put that on the existing site somewhere so the civil engineer has identified some locations for testing those right now possibility all right so at this point we can pass it to Steve vudi to talk about what this means for the town thank you so one of the things that that you know everybody's interested what's the the net effect of the 10 you've given a range for the msba numbers so let's apply that range to the construction costs that we have that's what we tried to do um one of the things with Debt Service and the tax impacts that we're going to talk about and just like the construction cost really estimates these These are estimates based on those estimates so things are going to change um they're based right now on FY 24 values fy2 24 Valu is going to be good for the next two days because the state is going to certify our values for FY 25 within the next two or three days so the numbers that we're going to see tonight will change then and by the time we place this final one they're going to change four more times so these are truly estimates and it's a range but it's something that the town needs to know Town needs to know the range and they need to hear the impact so they can start asking questions about those things um the debt is going to be calculated on 20year bond with a 6% coupon who knows what interest rates are going to be six years from them years from them or place this SP um that's pretty conservative number that we think um just like any other debt that we place it's going to be um a constant principal payment so it pays down principal pays down first year Debt Service will be the highest that we experience and each year after that it will start diminishing the other way to structure debt is to do a level payment where there's no break from the taxpayer over the life that that term it's the same amount year after year so we want to see that's St diminishing probably the biggest thing is is we have a split tax rate to there's no way that we can not only know what interest rates have been charged but we're not going to know how the select board is going to split that tax rate year after year so any estimates we're going to give Will based off our assumptions for a single tax rate when we say a single tax rate residents can assume that it's going to be a lesser amount commercial customers figure out a higher am this is just a single tax rate okay this is just to reinforce these are just estimates both on side that the the construction side and for this tax side you'll have a better idea when we a year from there go a town meeting it asks abundant the construction side of the MSP reimbursement side should be fixed but tax side is still going to be up in because we'll still have three valuations to go through that time so we can certainly do estimates that's just what they're going to be from here on is estimates we try to work those numbers as best we can maybe estimate what those estimates could be when the time comes those are just the caveats that I want to throw out there just everybody's on the same page and let's get into some numbers so we had the the design build bid builds number 922 for 2.1 what we went in and did at the msba 30% reimbursement uh which was the low end of that range that stud G talked about be 277 all way up to 291 on 3.2 and you can see the impacts to the town 64 68 mil there so it's quite a difference from the 92s those msba reimbursements quite important for us it's a lot different than when we built the high school we got straight 51% on everything this is different that they the reimbursement rates vary by the type of of construction aspect that we're going through site work or or um squid those types of things so in here with all these scenarios the design bid build the first two scenarios and the CMI at risk have the last two three options for each the range is around 60 million to 75 million that cost to the town it's a huge number it's a biggest project that the town has done um even on this net basis this the biggest project town has done on the next slide next slide is the tax impacts that that come up with again based on the estimates based on the valuations that we have each those will change in a couple of days um first year impacts it's the highest point that this is going to be the first year that we place this Bond it's around 1,500 to $1,850 but all the different scenarios that we have one of the things that that um Studio G and and Turner talked about or mentioned was the difference between C CM at risk and the U design bid build the CM at risk that 6% premium is all on the to so msba doesn't pick up any portion of that see him atress so when the the um msba reimbursement comes through see gu says um especially on the last one where it says based on the design bid build it's the same number so whatever the reimbursement is for 30% on the design bid build for h options that same number was put for the C risk because there is no extra reimbursement for that extra 6% so that increases the costs those c n to the increased costs increased taxes Steve if I can just throw in something so that's 6% is something that we would choose to do and I use Russell Street as an example when Russell Street was renovated we've got we got like a 42.6% I think um reimbursement from MSB and there was talk about potential maybe do track but that same at the same time that same project but it wasn't going to be reimbursed we were still going to the taxpayers and saying we need your money in order to build this stuff so let's do it all in one F which personally I wish we had because we ended up going back and peace mailing all the stuff around Russell Street school but it it's similar with this with this 6% for the C risk it's something we choose to do but it's outside of the educational value of this renovation this building Steve what is the average house value that you plugged in now 6 672 672 and again that'll change in a couple of days yeah 62 that increase for the first year one 000 whatever it was figure you had there does that include the calculation of what the state yous for reimbursement because you're going to have to that's the net number net number okay absolutely is there um a possibility to go to have a 30-year Bond and spread this out more and have a less ofly impact good question so did you repeat the question um my question was that if if it was possible to take a 30-year Bond and spread out the impact a little bit more I'll give a quick example Ry and I went through and and looked at that a couple of weeks ago3 so we just take um one of these little examples so the Rena ad design bid build of 922 msba reimbursed 27.7 and we have a net cost of $64 million 64,000 we replacing a bond the 64,000 over 20 years if we kept it in 20 years the total debt service payment that would be making is $105 million okay so 64 that's 36 plus 5 that's $41 million iny M when we switch switch it to a 30-year Bond we're adding roughly what was $22 million in extra interest costs okay so you're talking about almost as much in interest as replacing the bond you're extending that out over a longer period not giving the tax payer be hurting the taxpayer up front but not going to help them in long run it we'll run the numbers and we'll look at it both ways I yeah but for now we're being as conservative as we can and being conservative it's a 20y year BL and and I really really appreciate the financial point of view that I'm thinking in terms of the home you know of the person who lives in town and and if you're going to say okay so for 20 years you have 1,600 extra or for 30 years it's it's maybe a thousand extra so you know like if if there's actually a a Delta there it makes a difference on the daytoday life of people who live in town and I just you know i' like to keep that in mind I understand physically you know years to think about yeah okay this this is the actual last decision that we need to make okay the other part of that out 30 years is sorry I know Brian and Ken want to say something but um if we're bonded yeah for this project 30 years we can't do any cerificate we can't borrow for any project that we do on the sh School 30 till that is paid off okay coun us okay good to know and just think of the impact of taxpayer too so yeah if you don't have something that's decreasing really soon or quickly 20 years quick it's uh it would be hard for the town to go it'll be hard for us to go to the town and ask for additional override something else happens to another building go do we need in off with with that amount that's sitting out there from the tax payer it's going to be hot bre to ask so this decision that we make has to be well thought out with not only the taxpayer in mind the needs of the account also what's the typical lifespan of an elementary school by msba standards H 50 years that's build yeah school so the msba because that's just a funding mechanism but basically we presumably they're they're not seriously considering 20 year olds right they're living at a certain age or right well you figed 1959 was the first part and then 1997 was the addition and then here we are in 2024 just person yeah but relative to the bond and and and to tack on to that point to your point me um in I mean look at our our our other buildings our this new police station isn't so new our new high school isn't so new so in in 30 years certainly and in 20 years we're going to be doing this kind of project maybe for our other three schools we're not yes all be dead but but but but you know uh if if if us if renovating a school is a100 million and we've got three other schools and the police station acquir station a library you know all all these things in in in in 30 years so uh I think we have to F the bullet for the the 20 the question I actually say ask you is do you have any sense with all the caveats of estimates and everything changing um so that's basically 1800 you know in round numbers 1800 in the first year how quickly does it t them off I mean what's the second year um I really didn't uh analyze the the I was plugging through these numbers but historic did you got an idea historic that's much of the spot right right right I'm I'm just something that big tell you that the first year tax payment debt payment on that first scenario piece was over7 Million so right but but so it's a lot is the next year going to be it be six and change it's not going to go down okay so so it would be like Ball parking eight the first year you know maybe 175 you know just but it's going down but it's not Val going going up as well also think out potentially this town could look a lot different than it does today and with that additional New Growth that comes into the town those numbers change dramatically I saw that God okay okay are there other are there other projects on that taxpayers for instance uh I think middle school and Russell Street are both currently um on the tax roads M do those come off at some point time that'll help mitigate some of that cost for taxpayers at some point time so the Middle School Russell Street and this building are all dead exclusions I believe all three of them are there they're starting to wind down what we do and you know people that town meeting have heard this this term this the debt exclusion stabilization account and you transfer money out of here every town meeting what we're doing is we're using inside the levy money to help offset some of this outside Levy ver tax payment and we've done it successfully past seven eight years so and we're reducing the tax rate proba on an average of like 17 cents sound like a bu but it's something we've already started to put money as side to do the same thing with shape L last now meaning we put aside 1.1 million drop in the bucket of the numbers that we see but we still have five years to put some money aside and then we have to decide as select finance committee the best use of that money other it's hand of the we cover some of these Debt Service pay payments initially until they get down to something that we can handle or to pay construction cost and decrease the bond that we have to we'll have to go through those numbers and see which is the better way to check it's just little after 8 o' and we do have another question m m yeah I was just yeah just uh historically we in our larger projects that we've done recently in town we we do hire a CMR correct that's what they said yeah for the last two projects Library yeah so is it is this slide going to be presented at town meeting that's the next thing on our agend okay all right I'll go with the program eventually I I I guess my my thought is that I mean a project this size I I I think I heard it's the select boards decision to to make as far as a CMR goes but you know I'd be shocked if we didn't use a CMR for this project I don't know how much value those first two estimates the top estimates we saw how much they the building committee's decision okay all right well either way I just not sure how much value those top two estimates give at town meeting that that's my only point just um I'm just wondering since this project won't be up and running as you say you know for four four or five years um can we assume that the school department is going to need some extra funds or temporary classrooms or temporary accommodations for the buildings because you know we've been told it's you know that this school is was just so crazy overcrowded and we just live with that for five years I'm just thinking that it's in terms of looking at all the total costs you know that the school the school planning ask for some other money to get us through the five years I can say that that wouldn't be our intent we have been very creative this past year we had 11 movs in the building to create space for students so um and for staff so I don't foresee that being anything that um Dr CL or myself be looking for it fair enough thank you J you can hold off any question till the end just to get to what presented meeting okay why don't we no other questions from the committee move on to meeting all right so we are working on the topics that are going to be Sor as you know we're limited to just 10 minutes so we need to be very impactful with what we talk about and have a good understanding about the questions that people are likely to have so we can answer them in advance since there is no Q&A session at this to meeting so we are right now the plan is for Michelle and for Justin and or Kelly to talk about what's wrong with the existing Shak school why we've outgrown it why it no longer meets our needs and then I will take over and talk about the estimated costs which we'll be doing a comparison between what the msca reimburses the Town versus what the town would be responsible for uh we can touch on the tax burden for individual houses very briefly with the understanding that is estimate only then gives those same examples from the other communities and maybe put in the other price adjusted examples of hilr Flores roach West act maybe we can look around and find a couple others just so that people can see where we fall in this spectrum of projects that are happening uh through the msca then a very brief design update at this point there will be a single option that we're talking about here so we'll just show very briefly where it is on the site and what it is and we're working on a graphic to show inside the school the special learning communities that are so different from what most people have grown up with in the schools so that people can really understand what a modern School looks like and how different it is from what they have right now and then we'll talk about next steps and that will include at least two tours of the school that will be open to the public we will be working on a way that people can sign up for the tours in advance so we don't end up with too many people for the tours to really be effective uh we'll also talk about other ways that people can stay informed so really pushing the project website uh there's going to be frequently asked questions section on there that will continue to grow with the project we'll add more questions in there as we learn more and uh other ways that people can get involved and get their questions answers yes but there's uh we're working on a flyer to hand out at the town meeting and it will have uh sort of outline what we're going to talk about some of the most common questions that we anticipate people will have as well as a sum of why we've outgrown Shaker Lane it will show that interior rendering so people can really take their time and look at it and absorb it uh we'll have a QR code with a link to the project website and um not sure what else oh we're going to describe a little bit about the modern teaching methods and what those actually are I think we I think it been discussed we have listening sessions at those to to give chance to people who might not be wanting to go through the technology of that Express things person and we talked about potentially putting together a video which would be a montage of photographs of the existing space with somebody talking Michelle or Kelly uh talking about the pool and that can go up on the website and is available for anybody to watch if they can't make it to one of the tours comments from anyone on the boards about the presentation that I love your plan I think it's a great idea to include as many visuals as possible because the the tour we took yesterday to really see the space constraints was so compelling you know it's um I think if if you can I mean it's one thing to say that we've out thrown the space but to really see the impact that it has on teaching learning um is very compelling so I'm glad you're planning to use those images i' like doing that in 10 minutes why are we constrained for 10 minutes and why are we constrained to not having questions I mean we those are decisions we can the to modor runs town meeting so we talk to him about it that's what wants to do and that they also have to kind of think also the format too Brian and that that's we're really using this as a launching point to have as as Sten mentioned uh other more engagement other engagement events specifically in November that will it's really this is an advertisement to invite people to another event basically M you have a question yeah I just wanted to uh I guess I could piggyback off Brian's comments right there I think you know for example tonight we have I see Mr Sanders is there but we have there's no one online Mr Sanders is there no other members of the community in there I think that potentially allowing people to ask questions at town meeting where we'll have maybe 300 people not a great demographic as far as the town goes but we might be able to use that as a way to gather some of the questions and concerns that the town has as far as this project goes and be able to get ahead of them you know even when we're you know I know we there's plans to have more meetings down the line focused on just this project but I doubt you're going to get that many people there this might be a good opportunity to figure out what the major concerns are and you know strategize on how we can communicate to the community you know some of those concerns that's a great point and we actually have two ways that people can give feedback then and there um there is a link on the website where people can let the design team and the building committee know their thoughts it could be anything it's open-ended question they can ask questions they can make statements they can uh raise concerns anything they would like to share with us they can uh and then also we are planning on having a comment box set up with paper and pens so that if people have a question right there they can just jot it down put it in the box and we'll look at that the intention is not necessarily to answer everybody's individual question but as you say get a read on what people are thinking about and wondering what questions that they have just a question on the Technic go estimated cost I I assume that um the presentation will miss the first year tax cost the range that I had on the bottom of the yeah okay any more comments about the meeting so we're G have specific dates for those next two sessions yeah yeah yeah we yeah so we'll have we'll have those dates because that's really what again that's the the launching point to get to this event events we're going to couple that's probably how it should be phased Town me right all right this is I'm just sharing the Shaker Lane School building project website on here we have first an invitation to town meeting uh this QR code on here it this website actually but the that that went out and there's been some flyers passed around here and there scroll down right here click here to make your voard that brings you to a form and I'm logged in Gmail you don't have to have a Gmail account to answer them but what do you want the Shaker Lan project team to know you can write anything that you want and submited you're not limited to just one comment you can say as many things as you would like and then back on the website this video here it's about 6 minutes long and it does a really great overview of the msba process as well as some photos of the existing Shaker Lane and just the road map general information for people who might have no idea about anything that's going on so this is a great a great uh resource for people and the presentation so every presentation ofc that we've done can be found here as well so people can get historic data where's the BL that they were there this was just updated this week so I wonder if maybe something with the formatting yeah okay anything else from the Committees Mr Mr chair I just wanted to make a comment I heard some information but it was sort of kind of towards the tail end of this uh meeting here I think the first thing that should be done you should tell the citizen why mil needs to build a new school that should be first before you start throwing numbers at it as to what is going to cost to build it they need to understand there is a need for us to do this and it's going to cost us we're going to have to pay more I think that type of data at the first of a meeting then you can go into the numbers people need to know why are we doing this and I did not hear that when we started this meeting thank you do that that is the plan for sure at the last meeting that was sort of the intro and just for keeping time to talk about the boss we can go back through that but that's definitely the plan I think you need to do it every time you have a meeting department will handle that meeting the main question why we the more you drill it the more they remember that's what we're going to have to do thank you you probably oh I'm sorry I was on mute can everybody hear me yeah yeah I just I I I really appreciate this this is probably the best briefing that I've seen on this that helps identify exactly um what the town there's some expectations being set here so I I I kind of want to add on to what Mr Sanders said I do believe um the questions that I'm getting as a select board member when I around town are why they just they don't understand well what's wrong with our with Shaker Lane school so I I really think we hash that out um in in the initial meetings I know we're early in the process but but um and then obviously the very next point is is what was mentioned and that's how exactly does this affect my tax bill um once you know once we make the case of here's why we need it um and here's here's the condition of the current school and you know talk about the dates and things like that I just think this is a tough sell and I think it probably is in any Community but um I really think that the need it was presented um to all of us we understand what that is uh and then we can talk about the cost so thank you Mr Sanders for bringing that up Gary touched on that just SP something when you talk about the next steps you start introducing those meetings at some point during the presentation we should make a point in saying that we'll be back at the small town meeting in 2025 look for the funding and approval the project get that dat to people's Sal them to get more information 25 J so again getting back to the next week's meeting I think you really got to focus and appreciate everything every everybody's done but that's all be is given just expects it it's not fair that's just how it is so my biggest concern feedback is how to frame it so you don't lose your voters because you need them in your successive Town meetings and so aspects that I heard about how compelling the walkth through was I would look towards every single gathering with regard to a very simple I I know you offered it up many ways but I'm trying to simplify it with regard to don't make somebody go to a website so every person that attends that walk through should be given a predetermined set of questions that you're looking for like were you convinced Beyond were you shocked by the lack like phrase it so it serves you well with regard to motivating your future audiences so that you can actually use it we had 200 people walk through we had 95% that agreed with the following b b b so so i' go that way I i' go for the Steve I thought your with regard to framing the aspect with regard to the question year or 30 year I just throw it out as one example there are other decision points and you had numerous ones with regarding what's going to change in the coming years so here's where we're at today and and it's early like emphasize how early don't minimize all the work that you've already done but emphasize help here are the steps that are being taken that you should be tracking us on regard what are we doing your reference with regard to the stabilization but I could get lost in the weeds and I'm I think I'm more capable than some to not get lost so you can't overemphasizing but some certain bullets with regard to you should know audience future voters that we are very aware of how you're probably shell shot vience so here's what we're underway with to try to come to terms here's here when will we back to some of the point somebody just made think that absolutely um I think that's I think just deze don't lose your audience because I think if anything if somebody walks away and hears one number they don't understand that they're they're going to engaged or have opportunities and i' really push the residents of Littleton to force us all to get involved and get engaged and don't let us walk away want to be thank any else from anybody I'll just throw relative to the H School in harbage that was was a few years ago um they got reimbursed around 35% um it was a roughly a $50 million project similar population 425 students and um they got reimbursed $8.3 million so so question was asked so just data points so but again a few years ago when we built our library we we built it was $610 of squ $640 squ order a lot less for SC than it this today um and kinded in that same time frame 12 motion one second all favor Gary and I