[Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] this is a regular meeting of Livingston's planning board and notice of this meeting has been distributed in compliance with the open public meetings act I know for the record please sure miss boli and Mrs CA are now present this evening Mr Klein Mr Klein Mr Klein he's present Mr Mr P is here M Mr Ratner Mr Reber yeah Mr Diner miss Mr Lewis miss coochi miss wishnu here Mr Fernandez here we have our Corum we have our board attorney assistant Township engineer our planner and our traffic consultant thank you and if you can please call uh the matter that's on for the agenda for this evening that matter that's scheduled for this evening is a continued hearing for preliminary and final site plan with Varan is for 39 West Northfield Road Block 4801 lot n application number 20 23-20 D pfpv 39 West Norville Associates LLC thank you uh very much Jackie uh so we're here on the record that I uh while I was not here for the October 17th meeting I read the transcript uh thank you very much Barry and I would also make the same comment that I very enjoyably read the transcript thank you all very much for an wonderful evening thank you Richard um so you know just quick background we were here on the 5th we were here again on the 17th we're here tonight for the 3D evening so far we've had testifying uh Brian Natali uh Micha alance of f uh the applicant's professional engineer uh Lance surveyor and planner um Ryan Conway the landscape architect Harold maltz the applicant's uh traffic engineer Lance Blake um I believe uh began uh testimonies well the professional architect correct yeah yeah we're we're getting to him this evening correct okay that's what I thought um so we're here and how many witnesses do you have left uh two witnesses this evening chairman and just for the record John which is Scola on behalf of 39 West North Associates LLC and chairman you basically summarize what was going to be my summary but I'll get to it in a moment it's fine so actually maybe if I may and and and as indicated uh this is the third public hearing with respect to this application we're seeking site plan approval for the development of an approximately 55,00 ft medical office building uh that's going to be occupied by Summit Health uh back in September you heard the testimony of Brian natal senior VP of facilities for Summit Health uh he provided detailed testimony regarding uh the need for this medical uh health facility uh the health care benefits that it's going to provide to the community and the reasons why Summit chose this particular location uh he did mention and I just want to remind the board unlike their location at 75 East Northfield uh this uh this building would not have an urgent care uh component to it and it's really basically just a large doctor's office uh Mike Lon a f back in September went through all aspects of the uh civil design of the project uh storm water management uh we spent a fair amount of time on circulation parking Etc he really covered everything except for landscaping and lighting um following the September meeting um and and we heard considerable comments uh from the board as well as the public and concerns about landscaping and setbacks and the like uh our professionals actually met with some of the neighbors uh back on September 30th and before we came back to you in October we had submitted a revised set of plans uh that evening of October 17th Brian Conway started off and he went through the landscaping and Lighting in detail and particularly the modifications that were made uh and just as a reminder uh we enhanced the landscaping around the perimeter we swapped the Landscaping to other side of the fence in certain locations uh uh really as a result of comments from some of the board members we pulled parking back uh away from some of the residential homes as well uh and we also relocated those EV Chargers which were originally directly adjacent to you know one of our adj directly adjacent neighbors and and we put them into the parking lot because there was concern about fire hazards and safety and so on and so forth uh we also relocated the ref use enclosure further away from the residential homes so uh you also heard the testimony of our traffic engineer uh Harold maltz at our last meeting so our two witnesses and our final witnesses that we'll be presenting this evening are Lance Blake our project architect he's going to provide an overview of the proposed building uh the building elevations he's going to speak to the signage you heard you heard about the signage uh uh for Mike lonz of Fama but we didn't have the elevations up so you'll see what what is proposed in that regard y uh and then our second witness will be uh recalling Mike lanzafama to come up in his capacity as a professional planner so uh with that I'd like to call Lance Blake um before you introduce Lance um I I again apologize I wasn't here at the last meeting but again have read the transcript and had a couple of relatively simplistic questions uh pertaining to the witnesses from the last meeting um that I would just like to ask if I could sure um so and I have and I do have everyone here except for Mr maltz so but but Brian is here uh and I suspect some may be directed at him and uh possibly Mr L okay so one pertains to lighting the other one actually pertains to parking and the the parking was a thought and even if Harold is not here understanding that um even if you finish all of the application tonight there's still opportunity maybe to make some adjustments to to the to the final plan and I I briefly discussed this uh with Lee Klein the traffic engineer um representing the board um and that is the something that we've seen a lot of lately with regard to um residential uses and that is tandem parking um obviously for visitors tandem parking is not going to be anything that you could use but you have a number of employees that are going to be here all day every day good part of the day every day during the operation of the property and if there was an ability to perhaps set some of the parking up as tandem where employees could use those spaces that maybe I I don't believe you would end up uh uh reducing or or gaining parking spaces by that um and I don't know that that's necessarily the issue but perhaps we might be able to increase some of the buffer areas by doing that um perhaps leave some of the landscaped areas that are there or treed areas that are there now by doing that and I ask that um perhaps either engineering wise it's probably more engineering than Harold to look at the possibility of that and see if there's some benefit that can be gained that'll ease the the the size of the parking area and the location of that uh visib to the to the neighbors so that's that item the other one pertains to the lighting and very impressed with the lighting fixtures that you talked about that you're using with the LEDs that are forward facing and all of that is terrific and the fact that you'll after business on any of the days cut the the usage down to 50% which is also terrific um but one of the one of the areas that I'm not sure and maybe I missed it so I I'll ask for clarification is it's the spillage of light is one thing that becomes annoying to a neighbor um and that seems to be completely controlled by what you have right now but seeing the source of the light is the other area that really wasn't talked about and I don't know if these fixtures also will have houseside shields pertaining to any of the PO that are around the neighbor's property so that when they're looking at the site the down light is the down light but they're not looking up at the light bulb why we use recess lighting as opposed the bulbs that are coming down because it it's much less impactful to do that um I don't know the answer and I'm not necessarily asking for the answer but that's something that I would like perhaps considered before before the lighting is finalized on the plan if there is way to protect from the neighbors's view the um the actual light source that's in those fixtures especially the higher ones so Mr Diner why don't can I make this suggestion on that on actually on both items because we'll certainly you know consider you know the tandems and and the fixtures um Mike's going to be up as our as our planner next although Brian's really Brian testified on the lighting as well so between the two of them perhaps after our architect goes uh we'll just circle back on that lighting issue and just and go back over it uh just in terms of fair enough I don't want to beat it to death just yep thank you okay will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth all right give us your full name for the record please yes Blake and Mr Blake can you please provide the board uh with a summary of your educational background and licenses that you hold professional yeah on the on the principal I'll just sit down sit down for this um I'm the managing principal of Rott wine and Blake my firm located in on in 16 microlab Road in Livingston um I've testified before numerous boards throughout the state including Livingston I am a resident of Livingston um and I've been before this board as well as the board of adjustments um many times thank you Mr Blake your office prepared the plans that are before the board this evening uh architectural and I would ask you to please uh provide the board with an overview can you hear me is yes okay great um sure so um when we were first uh looking to uh develop this building on the site um you know one of our charges was to um build this new two-story building on the existing footprint uh which was testified by um um Mr L Fama so I'll take you really quickly through the floor plans and then we'll talk about the uh the Building architecture uh so what you're seeing are uh what you're seeing on the screen are are the submitted [Music] um the submitted floor plans um uh this first this first plan is the the basement plan there is an existing basement within the building and uh we are just utilizing that that footprint um you know uh for for the basement space in which uh Mechanicals will be uh provided within that area as well as potentially some um you know some staff functions uh for the use uh the next the next plan um basically is the first floor plan showing the uh the entrances and exits side of the building building to the to the left to the left side uh is where our our main entrance and Lobby will occur there'll be a a through Corridor that will take you to the Northfield side in which there will be a an exit um and the building will basically be fit up with the uh proposed uses you know of the uh of the doctor's offices uh also uh on the the uh the main entrance side there will be a a covered canopy for uh patients to be able to be dropped off uh undercover oops Next plan just shows the uh the second floor plan uh core elements very simple uh now we're are looking at the uh the elevations uh the elevations of the building uh the building building height will be uh 20 uh 28 ft to the roof surface with a 2T 6 parit uh totaling uh 29 F 7 in uh the building will also as you can see with the colored elevations on the uh right side uh the building elevations uh will have a warm pallet of Earth Tone materials a grayish a gray uh brick with a that'll have um basically let me blow this up a little bit that will have a speckled range to it so it'll have a lot of feel like it'll have a lot of texture uh we're also utilizing engineered wood products uh that would be very you know warm in nature as well uh there will also be some metal elements uh metal um uh what what I call uh bands or eyebrows that encapsulate some of the AR tal elements of the wood and and brick and it creates a rhythm around the building uh as well creating a lot of um I think visual interest uh so right now we are looking at the uh the elevation of of the Northfield side and I'll just go quickly through the the signage so you can see uh before you leave I want yes do we have that in sure trying to get it small enough to be able to see the uh okay so um the upper elevation is the the South elevation obviously you can see by the uh the neighboring elevation to to the left uh that's the North Field side um the north elevation I'm sorry uh vice versa the the South elevation is the the main entrance Lobby side with the uh uh the main drop off canopy uh where the main lobby would occur uh North elevation so yeah that that's the rear rear the top one is the rear elevation uh um North elevation uh faces Northfield and then west elevation and East Elevation are the what we'll call the perspective views um of the building um west elevation is colins Terrace third one the third one down so that shows the corner and then um also the East Elevation uh shows the corn Corner uh of the the parking lot and the the building uh facing Collins Terrace as well Lance could you start at the top again because you you still have me confused it's start at the top picture that we're looking at on the same plan as you that's facing what all right can you see the cursor okay I think the drawings we have are different than yours label this one should be the same the very top one is labeled West says west elevation these were these were resubmitted we had changed these yeah I think they were resubmitted uh with the last submitt so you might be looking at the initial submitt I think that's why you're confused no yeah we we had resubmitted these uh well I don't think we have them yeah we have the ones dat of September 13 21 yeah I don't know if I have that or not uh this revision is dated so that's South yeah it's in September that's right I may but so that's facing the parking lot South elevation faces the parking lot there you go okay North elevation faces Northfield West elevation um faces Collins Terrace and I think it's noted on the elevation and and East Elevation faces um you know looks towards um uhen property the the the neighboring property yes that's correct so the snapshots you know show the colored elevations um adjacent to these elevations and basically uh rather than looking at a black and white two-dimensional elevation it shows uh um a little bit of um perspective depth and M materiality to the building so as I was saying um the building is a composition of warm Earth Tone materials brick uh that's a a light uh we'll call it gray color with metal accents and and uh engineered wood accent products um in general as a composition throughout you know all the facades of the building so that's when I started to get into looking at the signage any any questions on the architecture first so I just blew up the um the elevation looking South and this is the elevation uh showing the main entrance and and canopy uh the canopy can't delivers over a portion of the of the drive aisle field looking at right now we're at the parking lot looking so that's the back side of the building this is the back theth that's the South face of the building yes correct yes that's the main yeah I mean that's the main uh patient entrance so we're in the parking lot looking at the South Side Of The Bu looking North at the south side of the building that's correct yeah so you can see that uh the summit Health uh sign and Logo uh are mounted on the the the the face of the canopy the uh on top but out at the face of the canopy and that that uh sign panel is 3' 3 by 17 ft and it's a internal illuminated the next sign there are two signs on on the Northfield side uh and again we have the the summit health and logo that's mounted on top of the canopy at the outer face so it's not mounted on the the facade of the building it's actually proud of the proud of the uh the facade so it's like you know 5 ft off of the building and that that sign again is 3 fo3 by 22 ft is there pedestrian only access there or can a vehicle pull up uh no vehicle can pull up no no there's no no curb cut or you pull off there's nothing so it's um you know it creates a um you know a nice front to the street as as an entrance it's an exit or if somebody were coming in by bus you know any any uh uh staff in the building you know they would be uh you know dropped off I guess on the corner or close to to the building and we'll be able to walk you know walk up to the you know the front of the building off a Northfield uh we're we also have um on the upper right hand uh corner of the building fascia um a building identification sign showing the address 39w um although this one doesn't have Dimensions it is going to be 3 by1 and again it will be these these signs are intern either backlit or internally uh illuminated the the next facade the West facade and this faces um um St St thank you uh we have as you're coming down uh Northfield there's a a sign uh at the corner you know at the middle and and corner of the building which again Summit Health with the summit logo um and that's 48 by 136 and there's there's nothing on the east side of the building are you also proposing a monument sign thank you yes you can see on the corner there is a monument sign uh what was it what was the size of that 2 fo9 by6 for the record so you have you're proposing a large address sign on top correct and then you have another sign right on the corner correct then another sign on the entrance on the North side yes okay what's then the purpose of now the monument sign well the monument sign and in fact I have an exhibit um that I could pull up it's it's a rendering showing the corner because as you're as you're coming down Northfield um well is isn't the purpose of the sign to kind of identify where you are and that you've yes okay but there're already large signage on the building doing that same thing right but the 39w uh may not be uh as visible coming down a portion of Northfield as the monument sign would reveal sign says Summit health and then that same sign facing the same direction says summ Health oh that one yeah I thought you were talking about the 39 I'm talking about everything in general and and then the purpose of the minman sign with all the other signage that's there right right well going back to the monument sign what's on it uh the monument sign would be Summit Health as well Summit Health with the logo see I I believe there is an illustration that also showed the street number uh yes it does show 39 at the bottom corner all right so if you have a monument sign if you have a monument sign uh which has the street number why do you need the sign on the top of the building in fact if that sign says 39 33 whatever it is 39 W 39 W yeah my reaction was where are X and Y because if you have a w on a building ORD indicates that it's part of a larger development and you have building a building C and so on right well W is West yeah so at my house it doesn't say 22 West something Street it just says 22 that's okay I I'm puzzled as to why you need both a monument sign and an address sign on the front of the building and if the sign on the monument is visible from two directions more people will see that than the wall and if the purpose of the wall sign is to meet the requirement of the fire department peace Police Department identifying the address you don't need that big big sign you need something down at the level where they'll be looking at house numbers or Street numbers or building numbers as they go down the go Street uncomfortable I also have another question now that I have my voice back going to the rear of the building are you able to tell us the distance from that sign to the residential property line the the the summit Health sign yes to the property line if not we ask Mr Lama the same question to Mr Lonzo and the reason I asked the question if it should be less than 100 ft you cannot illuminate the sign the way it is illuminated if it's less than 100 feet that's right yeah from from the sign to the property line to the residential zone property line on the back side on the back side of the building yeah yeah I think it's well well it probably well should be up rective it is so much okay um how do I get to the uh other exhibit oh it's that Mike Mike's gonna answer that question the back so I'm gonna I'm I'm going to report and I can have Mr lonz of confirm when he gets up but it's 115 ft uh from that uh rear the the parking lot facing sign South elevation to the closest residential zoned property line so right now I'm showing an exhibit I guess this should be marked yeah it's a area I think we're up to exhibit A8 my record show A8 uh maybe double check that my last one is A7 yep so this would be uh exhibit A8 so this is a rendering showing the corner of um of Northfield and um you know the adjacent Road uh and there will be you know there will be Trees and Landscaping and uh I don't have the exact position of these trees this is just a rendered version but um you know as the trees mature you know that Summit Health sign might get you know somewhat obscured a little bit uh but during the winter certainly it would be visible but you know the monument sign you know will be in the clear as well as the 39w but it it's more for it's more for visibility um you know so that people don't really miss the you know the you know the signage but that's client we I we hear your comments relative to the signage we'll take it under advice and report back before this is over as long as we have an answer well will'll have an answer while you're on the signage and lighting of the signage the timing that the signage will go off that's facing any of the neighbors properties right um again the benefit of any of the signage in the back if close close of business signs are off okay so in this exhibit you can see um the corner how how how the materials work together Landscaping um the adjacency to the other building and uh I believe that uh it's going to be a very attractive building in my professional opinion so uh that concludes my testimony and if there are any questions questions from the board plan for the facility uh I'm not the architect for the Interiors so I I don't know that answer that the interiors that would that would I'd have to defer to uh the folks at Summit Medical yep we'll do are there other questions from the board thank you there any questions for the from the oh sorry slow that's okay I'm slow um roof access is there internal roof access for fire department to get up on the Roof oh there will be yes okay knoxbox yes um the HVAC units that are on the roof are all going to be shielded and nonvisible yes thank you yes um there's not a sign to tell people where to go for the parking is there anything on the mon Monument sign that could Point people in that direction because I'm afraid that if they go continue on Northfield that's an exit only now that driveway so if you're going to use the monument sign is it possible to use it maybe with an arrow parking is that permitted I suppose if we have a monument sign that makes good sense oh the floor to floor Heights that's that's more of the question that should be you know uh asked uh the Florida floor Heights will be uh in the neighborhood of 13 and a half feet and that's to be able to get a 9 foot ceiling and yeah it's a board planner for anyone even though he's sitting in the audience that's the board planner didn't have a seat up here it's just in terms of trying to whittle down the types of uses that may go is that suit Radiology lab get the equip not I don't believe in MRI yeah any other questions um uh questions from the public for this witness as to this witness's testimony on up and the name for the record please Melissa Canan hi I just have a couple of questions um what was the square footage of the basement space uh I believe the basement space was just over 6,000 square ft in change and is that included in the yes footprint okay and then you mentioned that there's going to be two illuminated signs is that correct two yes no there'll be more okay the sign that is the sign that's facing Colin's Terrace is that the one of the illuminated ones yes and how far from the residential property line on colins's Terrace is that illuminated property sign how far from the residential property line I think you're asking a question which is generated by the one that I asked however I asked as to a distance requirement that is for illuminated signs in a rear parking lot that is adjacent to a residential Zone there is no ordinance that we have that applies any kind of limit for distance to other properties or any other signs okay so there but there is I guess from this rendering I'm I'm not really sure is that sign that's alongside the building that's a summit Health that's going to be facing cins Terrace that's correct where the resident are and that sign will be illuminated yes okay and by the way and if I may and I don't want to interrupt your flow here but I actually have been doing some consultation Mr Klein since you raised the issue in the first instance uh and your comments are well taken regarding the signage Monument sign is critical uh from our perspective relative to this location uh and if there's a concern or um uh just a general feeling uh relative to to the sign that we're talking about now on collinswood uh Terrace uh we'll drop that building sign uh in lie of having a freestanding sign there which we think is is very important for wayfinding purposes Etc so we'd amend the uh the application to remove the uh the facade sign um on that what is it the west elevation uh and we would also remove the W uh at the top as well thank you and we're still going to take Mr Klein's comments about the parking though I don't know might get a little jumbled with more words on that sign at that size but um we can Circle back on that one that was the other kle the other Mr K and then the last question I had I guess just a follow-up question you said that the trees will eventually mature to cover the signage the purpose of the sign would then be moot not necessarily I mean during the winter too without leaves but we're removing that sign anyway so so that okay so that one's gone yes okay thank you very much thank you any other members of the public have any questions for this witness as to his testimony hey seeing none thank you very much I'm just gonna in I'm just going a little out of order here chairman because uh Mr Ratner had asked a question about medical suits and Mr natal had natal had previously spoken to it but uh I'm just going to have him I'm just gonna have him clarify that just thank you Mr T you're still under oath yep thank you um I think the question was approximately how many exam rooms are going to be in the building um I took a look at our test fit uh based on our test fit it's about 60 exam rooms per floor so about 120 total is what we're calculating that's based on a test fit 120 exam rooms throughout the entire exam rooms no so so the breakdown I I'll give you just I mean this is not set in stone but just to give you a basic idea Cardiology may have 25 exam rooms pulmonary may have 15 exam rooms endocrin ology may have 14 exam rooms and um the general area may have six so each medical Suite has a different number of exam rooms based on how large the suite is being designed but total in the building throughout the entire building it'll be on or about Cardiology could have what did you say 15 uh 25 test fit correct do you know how many Physicians would cover that uh this would accommodate sorry Mike plans are very small so I just need to yes bear with me eyes are not what they used to be I have to go to opy who who's are will they have any opthalmologists there uh not at this location uh this would have office provider offices five so that would um we would have five provider offices uh there so that would accommodate essentially 10 cardiologists not all there at the same time generally they're groups say it again they are groups within there are groups in in a specialty there are Specialties within the in the building so there's I think I think I testified there were seven or eight different Specialties within the building um but all the exam rooms are generally the same thank you total throughout the building approx imately 120 examples I'm pretty sure you testified to this I just don't remember um how many doctors do you estimate will be there at any one time uh we had uh 55 total estimated staff uh at any one time and and how do you define staff um everyone within the building okay so every okay housekeeper okay doctors um uh other office staff housekeeping yes that's correct right yeah 55 total estimated at any at any one time at any one time is what we're what it might notes were yeah yes excuse me I I raised the question I think before let me just clarify it or ask it again on any given day all the doctors will not be in the building because Summit rotates them to other facilities that's correct so that's correct five of those suits could be empty or down to one doctor instead of three yeah they hopefully won't be empty but they will not be at full capacity correct right because there's doctors that rotate and there's other doctors that are in surgery the doctor is in surgery two days a week he may be in the office three days a week and be in another set you know in a in in our ulatory surgery or at the hospitals doing surgery the other days so they're not there 5 days a week generally thank you you're welcome thank you um any other questions from the board and any uh questions from the public as to this witness as to his testimony seeing none thank you very much appreciate it this time I'm like to recall Mike lonz ofama uh we did I believe him we originally qualified uh Mr Lonzo f it was both as an engineer and a professional planner and I would remind him he's still under oath I'm telling one second believe we did no I just looking for something uh yes we did perfect thank you good evening ladies and gentlemen um I acknowledge I'm still under oath from uh the last time I was here testifying uh regarding this application um and I'm here this evening to uh provide you with the necessary testimony and support of the several variances that we seek uh as part of our application um the application itself the building size its location its use is fully conforming uh with the ordinance the variances that we're seeking are related to uh some physical issues with regard to the parking lot uh as well as the number of parking stalls uh being proposed uh under your ordinance and dictated by the size of the building the required number of parking spaces is 2 76 however since we're providing 10 EV charging stations that uh we get a bonus credit of one uh space reduction uh in the number of required spaces for every EV stall that we provide so since we're providing 10 the required number of parking stalls drops down to 266 and since we're proposing 229 spaces as part of our modified design that uh we presented at the last hearing we need a 37 car parking variance and uh I believe you heard testimony at the last meeting um from Mr maltz um who had done a parking study at the request of Mr leein uh your traffic consultant at the uh sister facility uh further down Northfield and what they found was that the parking ratio that that um was actually observed at that other facility was right in line with the number of parking spaces we are proposing on our site um I believe the number came out to 230 if you applied the same ratio I believe the ratio was 4.3 spaces per thousand square feet is what it calculated out to be um so in our mind that this proposal will certainly support the building that's being presented to you uh this evening along with its use um and the other factor that you need to consider is at the other facility they have urgent care which is not at this facility and that tends to generate uh more traffic uh at that facility so keeping in mind that the number of parking spaces from a practical point of view um works for this facility works for the adjoining facility for further down the road a similar facility um in our mind that this variance this uh parking variance that we're seeking um could be supported under the C2 criteria uh of under the municipal land use law that this is a better planning alternative than strict compliance with the ordinance by reducing the number of of spaces that are necessary to support the safe operation of the facility we're reducing the amount of impervious area on the site providing more buffering for the adjoining property owner so in our opinion um this would certainly uh uh meet the criteria of a variance grant that it does not have a negative impact uh on the Zone plan or the zoning ordinance and is not inconsistent with the master plan uh as it appears uh in in your uh current form um in addition to the deficiency in the required number of parking spaces um we are also uh seeking a variance for the size of the parking stalls uh let me see if I can um okay stop doesn't work so well okay there we go okay and you can see that we have number of parking stalls that are head-to-head that are 18 ft in depth uh under your ordinance under definitions um uh under your ordinance a parking stall is defined as an area that's 18 feet wide by 20 feet deep unless you have the ability to overhang the vehicle and in which the parking stall can be 18 ft deep with the twoot overhang of the 229 parking spaces that were proposing 41 or about 61% of them are head-to-head 18 feet deep uh but again this is a a size that is consistent with um many applications for example the residential site Improvement standards used 9 by8 as as a standard parking configuration um many ordinances and other municipalities use 9 by8 as a standard uh parking size and this will fit work fine with um all of the vehicles that are currently on the road today um and again I believe this could be granted under the C2 criteria that the reduction in impervious coverage resulting from the the elimination of two feet of pavement uh at each of these head-to-head spaces is certainly a benefit that um could be supported uh by the uh application of the C2 criteria um finally the other variance that we are seeking is the fact that the parking stalls um that are located adjacent to the residential uh properties uh are less than 25 ft away this is section 170 d94 A5 uh which requires that any parking area be uh uh be set back 25 ft from the adjoining residential property line what I'd like to point point out here is that if you look at the exhibit that's up on the screen the existing parking area is much closer than what we're proposing the existing parking area is about uh anywhere from 15 to 17 feet away we're moving that back to between 18 and 20 feet so we are pulling it further away we're also providing some additional landscaping and fencing and then as you move further to the South um um the uh joining property uh that fronts on the back street um that parking area was only 152 ft and we've eliminated all the parking that is head in in that area we reconfigured that so that it is only a dry vial that is 16 1 12 ft off so we are improving the existing non-conforming condition uh by pulling the parking further away reducing the number of parking spaces that are actually facing uh the adjoining property uh to the West alza Fama on that yes sir so you got two different Lots as to which you need a setback variance that's it's a separate variance for each of those lots so can you tell us what it would be for my notes indicated that for lot 15 which is 99 Collins Terrace it's 6.44 feet that you're asking as a variance is that correct that's correct what is it for the other property at the other property we're at 16 and A2 feet so that's 9.5 feet correct or um 25 feet y thank you you're welcome so again in this particular case um we are improving on an existing non-conforming condition we're supplementing that separation between the residential properties in these parking areas by supplementing it with new Landscaping additional Landscaping fencing uh grading modifications that help screen it uh even further so again under the C2 criteria this is certainly a better planning alternative uh than um leaving it where it was basically um and the refu area is compliant now we've pulled that away so it is 25 ft from the closest point uh on the adjoining properties um as to moving on to the signage uh one of the questions that I believe Mr Klein Peter Klein asked with regard to the sign on the south side of the building that faces the parking lot uh if you measure from the um canopy area I don't know if you could see the cursor there um straight up perpendicular to the property line uh to the property that fronts on Collins that's 115 ft from from that closest point of the sign to that property line so exceeds the 100 foot setback requirement uh under the ordinance but I've also been advised that those those the illumination of that sign will be timed out in the evening so it would go out uh after a certain hour so it would not be uh disruptive to uh the adjoining property owners so that sign its location uh a sign is permitted on a corner lot as well as signage facing um uh parking that is at the rear of the building that is permitted uh under the ordinance what's not permitted is the way we have that sign particularly um sighted on top of the canopy uh your ordinance talks about keeping um the sign uh no more than 15 Ines from the face of the building in this particular case it moves to the extreme end of the canopy so we were never quite sure how that applied but the size of the sign is compliant with regard to its overall Dimension and the percentage of the rear facade um the overall dimensions of the sign are compliant uh its location relative to the residential property lines uh are compliant uh however the location at top the canopy um I believe there was some discussion at the first hearing as to whether or not that was a variance or not I I believe the way the ordinance is written it does require some type of relief and we wanted to be certain that we covered that and made sure that we sought the appropriate relief for that sign location the sign only on top of the canopy or is it attached to the face of the canopy and then above it it it's on top of the canopy so it's not on the face if it was on the face it would be compliant in my mind but because it's on top of the canopy technically it's not um I think you are correct Believe It or Not wow and you only got one more meeting so in any event the the location of the sign the way it's configured um in my mind that is also uh could be argued as a C2 variance I think it's an aesthetically pleasing way to present the signage I think it enhances the building facade I think uh Mr Blake has done a fantastic job on the building and and those signs are the icing on the cake and I think they're important to have uh with regard to the facility um Michael can you give us the dimensions from the building with the varant from the building to the end of the canopy 15 ft is it the canopy is how far as the canopy from is about 15 ft from the face of the building right not quite that much about 12 feet I'll I'll have to give me a minute and I'll I'll get it um Brian give me the plans yeah I got me it wouldn't show well I show the can ex it's it's about it's between eight and N feet from the face of the8 and N feet from the face of the building excuse me that that's the that would be the variance request well we're allowed 15 inches so whatever the difference is between 8 feet and 15 inches so that's 6 foot 9 in would be the extent of the variance being requested approximately okay the uh front facade sign uh is also permitted under the ordinance because we're corner lot it's a front it's uh the facing the Front Street the street address of Northfield Road um and again this is placed over the canopy at the face of the canopy its size is compliant however its location at top the canopy uh also would require a variance and that that canopy is about 5 feet from the face of the building so the extent of that variance would be 3 foot n in would be the extent of the variance there again in my mind it's an aesthetic element of the architecture and under the C2 criteria I think Aesthetics is a good justification uh for the signage uh We've eliminated the other sign that is actually permissible on the western facade uh opposite Collins uh however we are requesting a variance for a monument sign located at the intersection of Collins and Northfield uh the proposed sign will be set back five feet from Northfield and 10 feet from Collins um the sign itself is um 2ot 9 in High by uh 6t long for a total of 16 12 square ft um and why we feel so strongly that this sign is imperative is because of the fact that we have no driveway on Northfield that's it's really critical to be able to have traffic moving along Northfield Road to be able to identify the where they should turn to get into the facility and make that movement onto Collins so that they can then enter the driveway off of Collins and uh Mr Lee Klein's comment regarding an arrow as a matter of fact at our office this evening before we came here Brian and I were talking about perhaps the sign should have an arrow indicating that you have to make that left turn movement down Collins actually get into the facility so we'd like to be able to add that arrow to the sign um you would still have the same Summit Health um wording and Logo we would we would add an arrow to the top of that or at some location that would add to the and be more of a directional finding sign for the traffic uh as they move along the roadway uh and that the argument and proofs for that variance are clearly Traffic Safety uh to be able to identify the location of the facility and to be able to move safely uh into the site um now keep in mind as you move further to the west across Collins there's a quite a bit of vegetation on those Residential Properties and they do obscure the building but that sign at that lower elevation would actually be more visible than the sign up on top of the building so in in our mind that sign is crucial uh to Safe access into the site what is the lighting for that sign that that's uh that would be ground lit that one's ground lit yes so it's ground lit on the sign on the sign correct which is permissible where Monument signs are permitted it's it's not backlit something that's okay yeah it'll be it'll be uh illuminated um so and the number 39 in the upper corner we've eliminated the W I think the 39 that additional sign on that building uh is critical for emergency services to see and identify quickly 39 so they know where they need to uh to access uh the facility so um I believe the variances that we are seeking are are in my mind really relatively minor with regard to the number of parking spaces the size of the Stalls the setbacks I think how we've modified the plan and supplemented the Landscaping I I really believe it was um very important for us to meet with the neighbors to understand their concerns and to try and be as positive as we could in responding to their concerns and adding that additional landscaping and modifying that back parking area to eliminate those parking spaces that were head in and facing towards that those residents um I did take a quick look at Mr Diner's suggestion uh about tandem parking um I don't see how that would really gain us much if anything if you take a look at uh the way the parking is arranged what we would have to do is we would have to eliminate parking uh these these um perpendicular spaces uh these rows of 14 would be reduced to 12 each that would give us the 18 feet we need to make the tandem space here so it really doesn't shift the extent of the parking area it just shuffles the Stalls around and it's that's all it it does but we did take a close look at it and and from an operational point of view it it's really difficult at this type of facility because you have doctors coming in and out um uh nursing staff that have to come in and out and if one gets caught behind the other could be a real problem trying to locate them in the building get them out there it works for residential because it's one family one set of cars okay I appreciate you're taking a look at that one of the things that you mentioned as a a comparison and one of the reasons that you feel the variance for the amount of parking that you're asking a variance for was that this facility does not have a um urgy care uh Emergency Care would the applicant agree to a condition that that would not be added to this building yes okay thank you you're welcome Michael it was mentioned that the signage would be lit doing business hours correct I I may have missed it what you consider business hours um and I would defer to Brian on that for the facility or would would each Suite have their own option to stay open later if they chose so building hours the building hours that I testify to would be Monday through Friday 7:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. Saturday 8 A.M to 1 pm. Sunday no hours right now but we wanted to leave that open and it would be the same as Saturday if we did so what we do I believe at the 75 East Northfield site is the building there I believe closes at 9: and the signs go off at 10: so if the building here closed at 8: maybe the signs can go off at 9: here we usually keep it an hour after Clos so it would be um the building not the specific department so so everybody practicing in that building would abide by the same hours that's correct they wouldn't be able to stay past 8 P.M has consideration been given to not lighting the sign facing the parking lot because obviously if if a patient is there he knows it's Summit uh consideration has not been given to that um we we would like to light the sign particularly at night you know this time time of year where patients pull in it's you know the sign is illuminated I think it's a nice aesthetic quality in the back because it also shows them where the main entrance is it gives them a visual when they get out of the car of where to head for that entrance so we would like to keep it illuminated okay I I have nothing further Mike uh can you can you address or do you want to defer to Brian uh Mr Diner's question just regarding those light fixtures with recessed uh houseside Shields I think he was just looking for clarification in that regard they're they're Leed fixtures so it's not one single bulb as you know it's a whole series of diodes and they can be recessed and controlled and they can make sure that the light is directed downward um and I think they're recessed enough I would defer to Brian for a further explanation but I think they're recessed enough that they're not going to be visible uh by the naked eye from the adjoining properties okay that that was the area it's not the down I that was pretty clear from the testimony that I read that that's controlled and it's also pushed into the parking lot it's the visible Source from the neighbors that I have concern Mr Conway I remind you you're still under oath certainly um the the parking lot lights in the center of the parking lot those are not going to be those are not open for discussion because that we can't provide any kind of shielding for them because the direction of the light is needed um the lights that are with the back facing the houses such as the one right by the dumpster the way that those fixtures are designed is the cut offs in the back of the fixtures are severe there's a um the bottom of the light is is flat the the lights do not hang down below it the lights are actually recessed up into it and they're individual diodes that are aimed um the houseside shields are appropriate for like the metal halight or other HIDs because it's one powerful lamp with a series of reflectors and that's basically an external um device to block the glare coming from it um so in terms of would light be visible from the adjoining properties if you look at some of the recess lights where you're not underneath it you'll see light coming down but you won't necessarily see the glare if you were to look up into it those are you know and so that that's how those and the the new style lights you can't put the shields on them because they're so sophisticated in the distribution the the shields would affect the distribution okay thank you okay oh and the closest ones we're dimming I believe 50% on the lights that are closest so that we've already accounted and dropped the heights Mr Lon ofama there are a few things that came up previously which I think are still possibly awaiting answers or I didn't understand the answers okay there is the Southern Drive a been reduced from 24 feet to 20 feet correct and there's no parking on that stretch that's correct and there has to be a justification for our approving the 20 foot with is it considered to be a two-way driveway where there's required minimum of 20 feet or is it is a two-way it's a two-way driveway under your ordinance it talks about a single driveway to be 12 feet um and multiples of 10 for other driveways that there's only two ways you can go so it be 20 feet so you aren't asking for variance there's no my op okay thank you there is a question as to whether or not there' be some kind of restriction on the use of the EV charging stations and I'm not sure whether there was ever an answer on that I I believe the discussion that was had could be mistaken I don't know if it was just internal to us or to the general public was that um that would be controlled by uh operations at the facility in other words a patient would get some kind of a code that they could enter in so that they could uh charge their car while they're at the facility or one of the employees could charge their car while they're at the facility it's not going to be open to the general public I believe that was that was our testimony it wasn't our testimony that is our testimony okay and the were questions raised about whether or not there's some protection of the parking spaces on the adjacent property the the retail post office and so on well there's no protection it's it's an open area they have um an easement right to access through our site to get to their spaces these are the spaces that are located behind the post office in that area so these spaces are unaffected by our design what had come up was that um some type of signage whether it be markings on the pavement or placards that would be installed in the parking lot that would state that these are parking spaces for those tenants and we had agreed to a condition that we would work with engineering on some type of marking whether it would be pavement marking or signs I thank you for that you're welcome from members of the board chair chairman one thing I do want to clarify and it it relates to the uh signage illumination uh we are proposing you and I think the biggest concern is the illumination of the signage facing the residential uh properties which would be the rear signage uh you know at the on the parking lot side of the building uh we would be requesting uh to to allow for illumination of the monument sign as well as the front sign uh facing Northfield Avenue thank you in other words not shutting not shutting that signage off at at the close of business any questions from the board's professionals repeat that yeah so so the automatic shut off within an hour of business would pertain to the uh rear the rear facing sign facing into the parking lot facing towards the Residential Properties uh we would like to keep the illumination for the monument sign um you know as well is the uh the front facade sign which is a summit Health sign over the front door faces Northfield Avenue I didn't think it was offensive to any of the Neighbors in as much as the concept of that is to be able to see the property with the arrow and get down it if you're closed I mean granted I understand you know identification and you want people to know you're there but I'm assuming that if they're your patients going in they know you're there once they've been there um and if it's going to help eliminate a lot of light coming into neighbors yards I think that that's something that really needs to be considered right I think we were just viewing it as th those signs not really coming into neighbors's yards the Northfield facing talking about the signs on the street on on Northfield correct which you'd like to have on all night Dusk to Dawn there any other Barry I'm just trying to clarify you said Dusk to Dawn Dawn that's like night to morning on or so basically any time it's dark out you want them on correct ones on Northfield correct so the monument sign is relatively low lighting and I guess one could argue if there were a nighttime emergency need it's still providing wayfinding for uh for emergency services and again The Monument's not internally illuminated that's the ground that's the ground mounted lighting correct how bright is that lighting i 4 I've noticed you know throughout Town one or two they just are obnoxiously bright this would not be obnoxiously bright so so a condition would be not obnoxiously bright in in whose eyes could you define that [Laughter] please okay yeah we my my lighting consultant is telling me that they could be on a dimmer we can control the light that way as well that's probably better um cuz I've just noticed just you on South just on South Livingston Avenue this some are just you know as I said obnoxiously bright and also some additional consideration for the time that that sign is actually on um I think should be given the the you know this is not a a booming Metropolis like um New York where cars are there 247 um you come down Northfield Road at 11:00 at night and there's not a lot of cars so the benefit of acknowledging that you're there perhaps by 11:00 doesn't need to be on anymore and really would like some consideration there again you're looking for a variance um little give and take might be very helpful I mean yeah I mean a one or two in the morning that nobody's really driving by what what's the purpose of having the light on 11 o'clock give and take Mr Dar any other questions from the board or from our professionals uh any questions from members of the oh yes yeah Michael I just want to explore parking uh with you so the operations testimony back in September was you're anticipating 55 staff members during the day and approximately 200 patients spread out over the course of the day um and you're providing 229 parking spaces so even at peak hours I think the arguments being made that you have sufficient parking if not more than enough for the patient load that you're anticipating question I have and I defer to the board to the kind of weigh in is but does that create an opportunity for things like considering perhaps green banking the 16 spaces abing the residential property and then putting them in only on an as needed basis um I believe that how would that how do you think that would affect your you know would would that create enough of a cushion or well that that would be my only concern was that was that um do we do we have enough to support the building overall um I know our our analysis uh based upon the other site uh indicates that that we're we're right at the numbers we should be at um and then I don't know how exactly you would uh eliminate 16 spaces uh I'm think think Michael I'm thinking the ones if you bring that plan down further down down the other way the other way the other way the other way okay keep going oh get rid these These are really the ones across from the EV yeah but Andrew those are like Prime spaces they right opposite the the main entrance if if I were they they're also the ones creating the variant that's why well they're they're really we're actually pulling them away they're they're existing now um what if I were going going to bank anything I would Bank the ones uh uh towards Harrison I think is is what I would Bank the ones furthest from uh the entrance yeah the ones along along the back section here along the back section in here you know there's 33 here maybe we eliminate uh you know 16 at the top or 16 at the bottom the one most furthest removed from the main entrance and Bank those as uh and and put in grass and then if it turns out that you know it becomes a problem for us we can always put them in so that's something that we could consider I'd have to consult with yeah and again I defer to the board in terms of their feelings about whether the parking I think that what we don't want to happen is suddenly have all cars and you know parking on uh you know on the streets I mean we've seen that with uh you know some of the prior Health Facilities that have been there and you know there all sorts of you know over the years you know all sorts of different ways of dealing with it permit parking for those residents and no one else and you I think that's you know what we don't want to happen uh that can you know create some you know real burdens even you know you you know even if you do that it becomes a parking problem um you know how long then will it take you to then install those parking spaces right that's always the issue is how do you police it what what triggers it right be installed that becomes and also I I think I my assumption is that Mr Janu 16 came from that's the number of spaces that are immediately Jon on the North side yeah it was really focused on those I mean if if you took 16 out of 30 or 40 on Harrison what are you really accomplishing you still have yeah no no and that's exactly right bar I was looking to address that variant specifically any other thoughts or comments from the board to the entrance door as possible so that last row of spaces would obviously be the last filled up unless their employees that's a different right and and will those be marked as employee spaces those are the undersized spaces yeah they're they're the eight and a half that's right permitted by the code for for employees baces hair pin striped one of the issues that was raised at the track was also snow removal and in as much as parking numbers are incredibly critical here what are you going to to do with snow the the snow can be pushed into the BIOS swell and as it melts it'll just get absorbed into the ground at the end of the parking lot there's like no curb it'll just sheet flow water sheet flows into the BIOS okay any other questions from the board wor our professionals and Andrew thank you for that it was a good suggestion thank you um members of the public have any questions for this witness as to his testimony yes name and address again for the record please Andrew KU Andrew kubios thank you Cub l l at 22 West Harrison Place and hold put my glasses on just like Mr Nal my vision is not what it used to be except it went out a lot earlier so young shout down my fighter pilot m so um if could you scroll up to where the the dumpster is so I know um back at our meeting at the community center back on September 30th you said that the reason why the dumpster was moved to where you have it in the plan was because of the ordinance that Livingston has that they require like islands like a certain number of islands in the park lot and because of the placement of those islands it would make it difficult for the the garbage truck to maneuver around it yeah we originally as you recall we we originally had it on the east side of the building but we realized that it would be more difficult for the truck to get into and maneuver to pick up the waste in that location and would end up blocking some traveled dials by putting it where we have put it um the truck can enter off of Collins come straight in do whatever it needs to do to pick it up and easily exits back out again so it's really an ideal location minimizes the movements of the truck so if and this is just this isn't really much of a question more of a suggestion for both you and the plan board to consider is there um is there a way that you know a a variance can be worked out to reduce the number of islands so that way the dumpster could be moved back to where it is currently so that way it' be easier for the garbage truck to maneuver because I know it's a it's a measure by the town to try to make the town War green by if it's a parking lot that's you know kind of hidden behind buildings I don't think you know most people would care or not if there's you know islands are not in this parking lot well part of the issue too was the parking on the adjoining property if you notice where I indicated um in in that area here we also can't obstruct ruct their access and we realized that by placing the dumpster in this location where we originally had it going to restricted access into their parking area as well so we really felt that the location where we have it really makes the most sense from an accessibility point of view there's still adequate room to buffer and I I think Mr Conway has done a great job in in supplementing the Landscaping in that area it's in a concrete enclosure same material is the building so it it's it's it's in an appropriate location it's appropriately set back from the property lines it's well screened um so I I believe it's a win-win for everybody at its current location and just to clarify um the building the plant is still like within the same footprint as the um as the gem currently is so like so where the um the building ends on what was that the side the building footprint is almost identical to the original building because when in the parking lot because where the dumpster currently is I I mean because I'm constantly in out for the post office I mean I've never had an issue you know with the dumpster being in the way cuz I always turn around that corner so I just wanted to see if if it was you know possible to you know remove the islands and then remove the dumpster back to uh next to the building no I'm I'm inclined not not to go that route I I think where we have it is appropriate and then another question going for pertaining to the the uh lighting for um not the lighting the sign that's facing the parking lot correct because as uh chairman Fernandez said I too I'm uh dealt with obnoxious signage my in fact the the uh sign from the New York Sports Club points directly into my bedroom so I had to get blackout Shades and even and then still manages to get through so um and even though it's closed I mean the sign is still you know blasting you know Full Throttle um is there a way to I know we just we were just discussing about you know keeping the sign on uh what was the for the signus so that for the sign facing like the parking lot what was the how long was it going to be shut off at 9900 p.m. yeah and then what what's the uh final business hour or what time does business hour end at 8:00 8:00 so yeah because at least with the current trees that are there um it completely blocks out the building but I mean those are you know tall like 40 to 60 foot mature trees but um and then in the winter time I mean it comes through but then the problem then is that because those trees are in the plan are PL to be cut down so um that means when they plant you know the new new trees that they're going to plant there uh as you know Mr Conway stated from the last hearing is that it would take you know about 25 years for the trees to reach full uh height so that means in summertime that sign is still going to be instead of you know it's it did being a problem in the winter time now it's going to be a whole like year round and there's a lot of uh bedrooms on in our house that like face directly face the parking lot so I just wanted to make sure that you know it's not going to be an issue well keep keep in mind too that that sign from your house is probably 250 feet away almost 300 feet away I mean I understand that but even then like I had to get blackout Shad in my room because even at night like with the shades when I have the shades up I don't even need the lights in my room I could still see where I'm clearly where I'm going so even at that distance like the lights are still I had to get blackout shades for that reason so I just want to make sure that that's you know I'll be able to sleep at night can can if you can talk about the sign and the lighting a little bit just so we get a better understanding of how much lighting you know that sign is throwing off I'm I'm sorry Mr chairman um if you can maybe describe that sign and the lighting and how much you think it's going to be throwing off and it'll be a little bit more specific on how the sign will be lit well it's internally illuminated um it's like a Halo kind of light it's not a direct source of light that you're going to see um like some glaring um opaque panel that's not what it's going to be um and like I said it's it's probably 300 feet away from his house so I I don't see it as being a huge problem and keep in mind that there's there is some grade differential there so um I don't don't believe um I believe the old sign on the that's I going to ask where was where was the old sign located compared to higher on the horizon than where this sign is going to be on the facade uh because this is right over the canopy which is probably only 15 feet to the to the top right oh it's underneath so it's so it's even lower than the existing signage that was on the building so this will be much lower and the Landscaping that Mr Conway talked about will probably screen that out in a much much much shorter period of time than you've indicated is 25 years and um do you have like an example like of like any signs in the area I could look at that have like a similar do you know like any like Signs in the area that could like see as like an example like as to like like the brightness or the type of like illumination I I couldn't get like there's the uh the Summit Building that's like you know like a couple blocks down from the this one does it have like the same or similar type of lighting is that the same that the same that Mike what color are the the letters is it a red is it a red color I mean it's not white color of the letter do you know uh what color are the letter I'm deferring to Mr blank I'm just saying can bring up the architecture because leine you just made a very good point and if you can just bring up the the AR right the the East the East View that's where the sign is yeah correct there yeah there there are let's put it just let's get it on the on the board let's blow it up and if you can explain Lance and just grab the microphone so everybody can hear you that's the East Side the bottom is the east side so that one top top elevation no no this is good this is good right see see how the sign is set back kind of underneath the other canopy so so there there are two canopies really okay one is to create cover for vehicles and for emergency vehicles okay it's 14 feet to the underside um the canopy that holds a signage um slips underneath that canopy above the door so it's like uh you know maybe that canopy is maybe 10t and then the signage is above it so um there'll be you know it's not going to be nearly I believe as as high as that New York Sports Club sign is now uh that that sits on the fascia you know on the facade of the back of the building it'll be internally illuminated yes individual each letter will have light that the logo is red have you uh seen the current New York Sports sign that's apparently still lit up have you seen it lit up I'm just curious whether you've seen it to see whether it's brighter than what you're proposing okay yeah I haven't been back there it's still lit up yeah stillin it it's it's lit up all night and then uh just just a quick note to uh just a quick note so the um the parking lot is like about um about like 4 and a half to like around 4 and 1/2 ft like higher than our property so even if the sign is lower it's still kind of like so like uh my bedroom window is kind of like level with like the middle like the kind of like the Middle top to end of the sports club so even so that's what I'm also concerned even if like the sign is lower like from my end it's still like because of like that height difference like in elevation it's still kind of like pointing directly into my bedroom window and that is di could that also be made dimmable well that one's getting shut off at what time 9: it's coming it's shutting off at 9: okay it's also not white it's it's blue right is the same sign that you're proposing here in existence at your current location at 75 um there all my questions for now so thank you thank you very much before you you go I just have a quick question for you that your concern about the garbage dumpster is because of its physical location or because of noise of pickup or what what specifically is your concern well specifically the physical like location um I mean it's always been loud because I mean that truck comes like 4 in the morning it just sounds like a bomb goes off every time like the dumpster pickup happens um but I know my mom is not here she couldn't make it because she's at a work emergency the whole week but um for her like the biggest thing is like the location um also with the fact that uh uh you know with trees being cut down and then obviously new trees being planted it's something that she's going to have to you know she's 66 right now it's about to retire and she just finished paying the mortgage this past may she intended on just you know retiring in this house but now it's like she doesn't want to have to you know have to pick up and move or I know she doesn't want to deal with like seeing the dumpster there because even from the first floor kitchen window we could still see like everything there so she doesn't want the Dum the dumpster is going to be hidden okay behind a a block wall that one of our requirements is that it's the same material as the building so when you're one there's also going to be a fence back there that's probably going to be equal in height or higher than um the the top of that dumpster wall and then even if you did see that it's going to going to be I mean hopefully an attractive wall if we think the building is going to be attractive then that that dumpster enclosure will also be if your concern is about getting picked up at 4 in the morning that's something that we could ask the applicant to make sure that the time that it's picked up is a more reasonable time so it doesn't disturb the neighbors and that's a a fair request yeah I think we I think we actually touched on that the first night of hearing from an operational perspective uh that is obnoxious when you I know when you got commercial and near residential and you're hair and the banging and so forth um so you know we're P Summit health is going to be private waste huler so you know we can control that time I don't know what the appropriate time earliest time would be at 6:00 am or 7 AM and just during uh you know normal times over the course of the day I know a lot of these garbage companies like to come in and set their own times and try to get in and out as early as as possible and do their thing but uh agreed but as long as you're paying you'll get them to come when you we can agree to that as a condition of approval uh that's totally understandable yeah that was part of the initial testimony was you were going to time the um y uh the trash hor so it wasn't going to inconvenience the neighbors and we do have a time I just don't know what I know whether the town has a time so whatever it is will I'm sorry and actually now have one question because now you just as fars another question um so looking at the plant uh I don't remember off the top of my head but I remember from the last hearing um Mr Conway said that the so the height of the trees that were being planted I you said that there would be two different kinds of trees there was the evergreen trees and then you're planting the shade trees and how tall were the shade trees going to be I think I proba somewhere 14 so going be planted at 14 to 16 feet and then the Evergreens you said were like seven to8 feet right so the shade trees would be taller than the dumpster and then the evergreen trees would all do you think those like just be covering like the height of the dumpster and then um and then I'm just assuming like all the like the green circles all large green circles those are also trees as well that's correct so you could see how those trees would diffuse your view of the sign as well so those canopies would would diffuse that some of that view and those are so the big the big green circles those are the shade trees that's correct okay and then um all right yeah that's all I have for now thank you thank you there any other questions from members of the public for this witness as to his testimony uh seeing none thank you we have no further Witnesses chairman thank you uh now is uh an opportunity for the public to make any sworn statements under oath um either in support of or in opposition to uh the application so are there any members of the public that would like to make a sworn statement for or against uh the application this would be your opportunity uh seeing none but yes sir yes uh name and address for the record please sure it's John J at 56 colinwood Avenue I'm sorry that was John JN j j a y at 56 col 1 Avenue if you can swear in the witness when you get a chance you're about to give will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do thank you yeah I'd just like to say first like to thank the members of the board and the summit health Team for taking considerations of the neighborhood um it's been very Progressive and we've made some good steps here um there's been a lot of scientific research that we've done as well um on engineering studies proving Landscaping the traffic um but the parking is the one thing that we're looking here for a variance and the one study that was done was one person going on one day as a small sample set to see what that parking looked like so in my opinion did not constitute uh scientific research as some of these other Studies have done so I just wanted to say that the variants being requested did not kind of meet those some of those hurdles that we have seen for some of the other studies that were done for many other things presented here today or over the course of the history here and sorry for consideration too I do um the board does so Grant these variants is would like to keep in consideration the traffic going down cwood Avenue right think we discussed on having signs on hobar Gap Road onto colinwood making that private way or you know no left turn whatever it is to make sure that that road stays as private it can be if we do decide to Grant this variance that's all I have thank you thank you very much you put everything in definition again can we have your name again for the record name and address again for the record uh Andrew kuo c u b i l l oos 22 West Harrison Place you swear the testimony about to give this matter will be the truth the hold truth nothing the truth I do so because of of New Jersey Law ordinance medical offices are required to have one parking space for every 200 square ft of medical office space this is why summon health is required to have 266 spaces after the 10 EV spaces for the year 55 1,200 ft facility the parking lot currently has and this is the parking lot pertaining to you know the portion this is excluding you know not what is with the post office and that side the parking lot currently has 173 spaces and even with expanding the parking lot to close to the curb of West Harrison Place they still come up 36 spaces short and are seeking a variance for 236 230 spaces instead sorry the result this will result in the loss of over 50 40 foot plus tall mature trees which serve as a nature barrier protecting the neighborhood from the parking lot buildings and Northfield Road with the green with the open Green Space being replaced with the parking lot in addition the neighborhood will also be losing two walkways or paths which function as major shortcuts or throughways for the Post Office the bus stop into the city the pizzeria Wine Depot Etc what is a 60-second walk to Calabria will now become a 6 to S minute walk turning a 2-minute round trip into a 12 to 14 minute trip just to pick up pizza and I know that personally because during the pandemic I would walk around that entire BL and it consistently take me 133 minutes so I just you know divide that by two um this will severely decrease the walkability of the neighborhood and since the town is Keen on further developing its downtown area decreasing walkability directly contradicts that goal especially since our neighborhood lacks sidewalks another concern after and I mean this is something that I already went over with Mr L of f but since I typed it here I'll just say it anyway um another concern after meeting with Mr Lan ofama back in September on the advice of Mayor Vieira he said the reason why the dumpster is being placed right next to our backyards is because of a Livingston ordinance that requires parking lots to have islands for every for a certain amount of uh square footage of parking lot and that the islands would prevent the garbage truck from being able to maneuver to the dumpster in its current location next to the building to be clear we're not saying that Summit Health can't build here but the side effects of this project in its current form will lead to a direct decrease increase in the quality of life for the residents of this neighborhood it seems that suit plans are too big for the property that they want to build on in the first hearing back on September 5th uh Mr natal stated that there will be 55 employees and an estimated patient volume of 200 per day but spread throughout the day and not all employees will be there every day so it seems that the current 173 parking spaces would accommodate that volume is there a way for Summit health the planning board to work out a variance for 93 less spaces and less Islands or even no Islands in that way the parking lot will not have to be expanded preserving the open Green Space and trees that Shield the neighborhood and the dumpster will not have to be placed next to our backyards because at the end of the day we're the ones that have to live with the consequences of the project and um just for I also brought pictures because sometimes like you know when we're looking at plans or you know through words it's sometimes hard to you know be able to visualize it so I brought I don't know if I would be able to uh bring those up there how many do you have different and just for the record you took the pictures yes when did you take them so the roughly I don't need the exact dat mark one yeah we should Mark objector one pass them on forward you see them so as you can see in the photos like that you know there's really tall mature trees that provide not just blocking the building but it just provides basically an entire barrier and so I mean I've been living next to the New York Sports Club since like basically at when I was an embryo so it's like um so it's I've never had so i' you know I'm used to a parking lot it's like because the trees are there it's never been a problem but now with with the loss of you know having to cut down all those trees it becomes problematic cuz now it's like we're living in a parking lot now and I know that they're going to be new trees planted but the problem is is that it will take decades for those trees to get up to that level and I mean my mom you know as like said my mom is plans to retire within a year she's 66 right now so we're saying if we're talking you know 25 years that means she'll be 87 by the time you know those trees reach that height and um it's something that she's really you know pretty stressed out about and I think that yeah that concludes my testimony thank you thank you very much thank you hi hi uh name address please sure Allison Greenspan 44 colinwood Avenue can you spell your last name please green like the color s p n raise your right hand you where the testimony about to give this matter will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes thank you um I'd just like to thank you for your time um I would like to say that I'm not fully opposed to the building going there and that something should go in that space it has been empty for some time but I do think that there should be a way to fit what you want to build there into what we currently have existing there um it feels like a detriment to the neighborhood that you're taking away all those green spaces it's a Concrete Jungle um it's going to change the feel and the look excuse me of the neighborhood um and I just think that there's already a parking lot there's already a building there I'm I'm just concerned that you know these variances that we give out in this town are supposed to protect the neighborhoods and it feels like this is going beyond that scope so I don't feel that the building size is in the best interest of the neighborhood and it's going to change the look and feel of the neighborhood and um place a hardship on all of the people that live there so um I would like to just go on record as saying that I am opposed to that variance thank you hello name and address please Melissa seansi 51 colinwood Avenue coun are you going to testify or offer closing argument what I'm going to make a small closing on behalf of the clients that I'm representing in the neighborhood so you're not testifying at this don't you telling us no I guess in a way I am as a resident but I am acting on their behalf as well all right well SAR you win then sure you swear the testimony about to give this matter would be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes thank you we feel we must be reminded of the goals of the master plan of Livingston and they are to one preserve and enhance the primarily residential character of the community two to maintain a balance of residential business and public uses and three to preserve and improve the quality of life and with those goals in mind we voed several concerns the C2 variances as requested by the applicant must be for the benefit of the community and not merely for the private purposes of the owner a requested variance is asking for increased parking spaces and this increase in parking lot space will require the removal of 6450 plusy old fully grown and maturity trees on the property this large green space on West Harrison Place has always been a part of the neighborhood and creates a necessary balance between the busy commercial areas on the next blocks removing this area and extending the large parking lot turns this neighborhood into an increasing Urban landscape a variance that allows for the missing 37 parking spaces will not be a benefit to the community as we can only see any potential overflow extending onto the residential streets next to the property any overflow may also make the neighboring businesses in the same parking lot uncompliant with their required parking spaces for their businesses the applicant is Seeking a variance to the setback to a residential property line of less than 25 ft similarly earlier the spring a resident of West Harris in place requested a variance of only 4 and A2 ft of the frontward setback of the 40 ft and was denied as this board has previously established the setback variances aren't in the best interest of the public good or the residents of this neighborhood while there is a prior non-conforming use if the entire lot is to be demolished and redone there should be no issue to now fully comply with the current regulations and submit a plan that complies with it allowance of this variance would detriment the current residents instead of complying with the zoning ordinances the need for the variance relief allegedly results from the property's unique configuration and the shape of the property allegedly imposes a hardship on the applicants and the proposed construction but to the previous tenant there was nothing so uniquely hard on them to request any variances the New Jersey Supreme Court reminds us that an applicant must evaluate the specific issues of the particular property Su suitability for proposed use and here we have the applicant requesting variances that will adversely impact the overall neighborhood one can clearly see that the property is not suitable to the applicant's proposed construction and with this in mind we ask you to deny the proposed variances at 39 West Northfield Road and keep the primarily residential face of this neighborhood thank you thank you very much are there any other members of the public uh seeing none uh any closing statements I didn't have the green button pushed turn turned it off so yep I'm waiting okay go all right so first off I do want to take a moment uh just to thank the board uh and all its professionals Jackie and and everyone it takes a lot to uh to get to this point of a hearing a a lot of application processing review and the like uh I also want to thank our neighbors uh who Who provided a lot of thoughtful you know comments and and questions and concerns uh as everyone is aware uh this is a property that's located in the Township's B Central Business zoning District it allows for a lot of variety of commercial uses retail office use and medical office use uh this is a property that has functioned commercially for decades believe it was originally uh a supermarket a couple grocery stores before It ultimately uh turned over and was redeveloped uh for as a health club facility originally jackeline subsequently New York Sports Club uh this property has has basically been vacant and unutilized since August of 2020 uh our client did spend a considerable amount of time uh finding a a tenant that would be suitable with the use that's permitted in the zone so we weren't coming in know well before a zoning board seeking D variant relief uh for something that's not otherwise permitted medical office use is permitted uh we've got a a tenant here Summit Health uh they are a top provider of medical services in the region they already have a significant presence here in Livingston and the surrounding communities uh and I think they've been proven to be a good neighbor uh in all their other locations you heard detailed testimony uh throughout these hearings from Brian Nal as to the need for this facility uh the nature of the business operations and the benefits to the community that'll be offered through the additional Specialists who who would occupy this facility uh you heard testimony from our engineer our landscape architect as to the design of the project which largely complies with the bulk standards that are applicable in the B Zone satisfied Building height floor area building setbacks lot coverage impervious coverage and the like uh significant testimony was offered with respect to the storm water management system um which is which of course is was important and a concern articulated as well as the landscape and and lighting uh you heard from our traffic engineer Harold maltz uh he spent a lot of time going through his traffic analysis uh he is fully aware of this road system personally did counts personally analyzed the other businesses in this location and his conclusions were uh that this project would not have a delerious impact on traffic in the area the design of the parking lot the circulation and the number of parking spaces would be sufficient for the needs of this medical facility uh we think the building itself is very welld designed based on the architectural plans prepared by Rott wine and Blake and we do think it'll be an overall aesthetic Improvement uh we believe that the signage proposed which has now been amended and reduced in terms of uh number of signs uh is appropriate it's tasteful and it's properly located and sized uh we believe that the planning testimony of uh our project uh planner Mike lonz ofama does justify the grant of the requested bulk relief as to parking spaces signage the parking setback which is an existing uh condition as well as the other relief sought uh I would remind the board uh this is not a d variance case this is not a particular suitability case in terms of variance relief that we are seeking here we're seeking c c variants relief and Mr lonz ofama we've Justified everything under the C2 criteria not the hardship criteria uh we have endeavored throughout the course of these hearings to be thoughtful and considerate uh as it relates to the comments and concerns of our neighbors and we do understand uh change changes hard uh when you've got when you've got development on a commercial property that's adjacent to Residential Properties uh we did come in with what we originally believed was a well-designed landscape plan including the fencing Etc uh and we believe that based on the comments of our neighbors as well as the board and the board professionals uh we did significantly improve on that by increasing the buffers uh increasing those parking setbacks relocating the dumpster uh making modifications as I indicated in my opening statement uh flipping landscaping and fencing to the benefit uh of our neighbors on Harrison uh we think it's a great plan uh and with that we are respectfully requesting that the board Grant approval the application as submitted and amended over the course of the hearings thank you uh thank you and before and before we close the um evidentiary record um any uh comments from um any of the board members as to any items that they consider still consider open that still need to be addressed just one briefly with regard to um the Landscaping along the the Harrison side where we're taking down a lot of the trees and I know that height becomes an issue but one of the things and I and I apologize because maybe you have it there is um burning any of those landscaped areas up to get the trees higher to start with is that something that can be considered to help at all in that area Brian if you're going to speak you should get up on a microphone the way we end up ended up with the um the biobase and the bio swell and the fence and the property the um parking lot being higher than the street we we were as judicious as we could but we we are maxed out at kind of every slope we have there got so we can't really raise it up at all all right thank you the parties having had an opportunity to make closing statements it appears to the chair that the applicant all interested persons and the board members have had reasonable opportunity to be heard and that the evidentiary record of this hearing ought to be Clos closed absent objection and in the absence of any motion for a continuance the evidentiary record is closed and no further testimony or evidence shall be heard or received and the board members shall now have an opportunity State and discuss their views on the application Mr chairman I think that in view of the complexity of the matter that anything that we do tonight be done as uh non-binding guidance to our attorney to prepare a resolution for consideration at a subsequent meeting I think that's uh agreed I think it's a good point and uh agreements made uh verbally I'd like to see those put into the application how do we do that what's the uh like the timeing they would there would be conditions of approval I mean we have just going through we have the following variances um bear with me um a variance for 37 parking spaces a variance for uh stall size a variance for parking setback um yeah um just parking setback uh canopy um uh the rear canopy sign variance um because uh only 15 in allowed it's 8 ft away uh similarly with the front sign there's a variance because of its location and its location from the facade uh the monument sign variance am I missing anything I think I have I think well those would be conditions I think that there're still a variance for the number of signs well it's going to be five but now it's four but I think the code permits three so technically it's okay so that would be the that would be variance number seven we don't actually have a uh a variance uh for number of signs the number of signs there are they are permitted the uh the wall signs really are just the project you know they're not facade facing they're they're on the canopy sizewise and number of signs actually is acceptable with the exception of us proposing the freestanding Monument sign okay so I have I have six as long as I have not missed anything right if you have if you have it would be on the the transcript and we would include it in the any resolution do we have to do anything about the distance from the residential that's not should have been 25 ft it's going to be we don't have to do that well you're talking about the yeah the the setback of the parking M on the street side yeah on the back well the one variance for parking setback from residentially Zone properties right yeah I think he read it was did he read it yeah I think that the chairman mentioned the two properties that we have a parking setback requirement for thank you there were a number of conditions which are in a transcript of you know no no Urgent Care uh you know when the signs are going to go off and dimmed um yeah and just with with that chairman if I may uh the rear the rear signs would go off at 900 p.m. the front signs would go off at 11: right actually there are a lot of conditions that were talked about during the course of the hearing uh for instance a pedestrian crosswalk signs uh in the rear parking lot that I think if this is approved that one of the conditions that would that there would be an updated vehicle Crossing access agreement covering the flow of traffic through the parking lot and the change in the direction of the driveway that is on Northfield the those probably ought to be submitted to the township engineer and in the zoning officer before any permits are issued there was testimony that and should be a condition that all the trees that are going to be planted to have either actively functioning tree Gator type water bags for the first three years to be maintained by the applicant unless a sprinkler system was put in that the streetcape would be coordinated with the bid that one of the concerns of the neighbors would be met by having no littering signs in the parking area there should be agreement and approval achieved with the township engineer on the routes for Demolition and construction equipment in vehicles video camera inspection of the sewer lines what I would like to see is since there have been a lot of concerns about traffic and parking that there be a traffic review and I think this is the same condition we had on the other building a traffic review no later than 18 months after the co is issued with the board retaining jurisdiction of any changes in the approval are recommended by the township engineer on the basis of of that inspection there would be a limit agreed to on the trash pickup time that condition on signage lighting going off that was discussed and a condition on reduction of the intensity of lighting at the parking area after business hours no future Urgent Care and the signage to control the use of the parking spaces on the adjacent commercial property would be worked out with our Township engineer and anything else that's on the record that's why we've had a court reporter here exactly through well anything else from uh the board members um you know thoughts on the nonbing guidance to be given to our attorney you know in favor in opposition everybody should understand what I've outlined is what the board has to consider in determining whether or not it's voting yes or no uh I can jump in first um first I'd like to uh one thank the public for their participating bringing concerns to light and then recognize the applicant for uh being open to those comments uh making a number of significant changes um I think when you know some of the concerns were raised and and um for the public it's it's sometimes not as easy to understand this is um as has been indicated it's permitted use uh the parking variants if the parking variants were not granted the result would be to clear even more green space to create more parking spaces um so that actually the you know by limiting uh granting the variance we actually limit the number of parking spaces to a low number that would otherwise be required um as it relates to that variance I think that uh the testimony particularly as to the basement space which I think was 6,800 square feet so that alone would be 30 some odd spaces and I think the testimony was fairly clear that that's not really going to be actively used and it's sort of supplementary um I'm I'm certainly comfortable there uh overall I think there was good progress made on the signs the lighting uh being observant I think the uh the Landscaping will ultimately be an improvement as it matures uh I I think that the applicant uh has met its burden both the positive and negative criteria under the C2 variants uh again um we're always cognizant of the the impact on on neighboring and Residential Properties wherever we have these and uh I always try and think well you know what was there and what was there was a gym that I'm sure opened at probably 5: in the morning and closed at 11: at night and uh in my sense would probably be much more impactful adversely on the residential neighborhood um this is a you know I think a use with you know limited and defined hours it's a medical office it's not particularly noisy it's not a restaurant it's not a bar uh all of which would be allowed in the B1 Zone um so of of the permitted uses in the B one zone uh this is probably one of the least intensive and impactful and so overall I think the the burd's been met um I would pretty much Echo um what Barry had said that um understanding the uses that could go in here um this is one of the least impactful I believe certainly better than the gyms that we have seen there before when Jack Lane was there um parking was in nightmare um and pleased to see that we're not going backward into that type of use which again could be allowed at substantially less square footage overall so that um although the square footage here is larger the hopefully the use as indicated by the testimony that we've heard um will be more controlled the hours substantially more controlled um appreciate the the the input from the residents and um the adjustments made by the applicant to those uh um concerns and um certainly can't go through all of the conditions but the purpose of what we're doing tonight is to have the opportunity before a final vote is done to review all of those make sure that all of those conditions that we've talked about and have been agreed to are going to be in if this is ultimately approved we'll have that opportunity to do that to go back and either read a transcript or watch the actual testimony tonight um but overall I think it's a much more attractive building a much better use than it's been in the past um they've shown the you know the tenant the applicant um to be a good neighbor Within the community um and that I think in the end there's no application that's perfect and um um hopefully if issues arise in the future being a good neighbor they will try to adjust those the best they can um but I think we've tried to take into account the neighborhood the impact on the neighborhood the possibilities of what could go there and that this is a a reason reasonable um um use of the of of the land and not requiring a zone change for use so I agree that the resolution should be in that regard we're all concerned about trees and we have been every time we can face the pardon every time we have to face the issue of trees being removed two or three centuries ago when I first started on this board the law permitted us to say whether or not they can cut down a tree and then to say what they would place in the ground after they cut down the tree the state department or the state in general I should say decided that we should not have any authority over cutting down trees we have no say about that whatsoever all we can do is try to do the best in convincing a developer to plant trees in replacement I think they've done a pretty good job in that regard I just wish we didn't have to deal with that issue in its entirety but we're stuck with it we also do not have jurisdiction to deal with traffic on adjacent streets uh traffic that may be cutting through through the neighborhood unfortunately this board has no Authority in that area whatsoever again something I wish we could deal with but we can't with all of these factors taken into consideration and the flexibility that's been shown on all sides I would recommend that the ordinance approving this as a permitted use should lead us on the testimony that we received to our attorney drafting a resolution of approval with the conditions that we've all spoken of and I'm also supportive of uh of the application along the way and certainly appreciate the uh the residents they came out and appreciate the applicant working together and trying to come some you know some accommodation that uh was reasonable for everybody this is a permitted use you know in this area um um and you know there you know other permitted uses I think that would that would be or could be you know more detrimental to the neighborhood um uh you know the the sign package I'm you know and people know I'm not a huge fan of Monument signs but uh um you know I think uh in this situation it does work um and there have been other changes to the other signage signage that's on the buildings to uh reflect that there is a monument sign here and also reflective of you know impact on neighbors as well well so um you know with with uh you know the various conditions which are but number one have been put on the record number two will be put into the the resolution I'm also supportive of uh of the application as well um so with that um so we've been given non- biding guidance to our attorney to prepare a resolution for consideration at the board's meeting on Mr chairman that would be a special meeting on Tuesday January 16th January 2nd [Laughter] 16th um so the hearing to continue with that date with no further notice by the applicant required M Mr Valeria we'll have a transcript prepared to uh to AG you yeah that would be great you can get that over to us I'll special order it for uh for for the holiday season so if you thank you very much everyone yes so we can get that to is this way we can prepare a resolution for the board to consider yeah thank you all so much us I think a typical turnaround to once it once a usual two weeks our typical turnaround so okay just in time for the holiday and uh Mr Diner thank you we are done thanks everybody and good holidays to all