##VIDEO ID:KuQ57fME5Ys## good evening and welcome to the public hearing for the Livingston Zoning Board of adjustment today is October 22nd 2024 if you are an applicant for a d or use variance you should be aware that such a variance can only be granted after showing that special reasons for the granted the variance exists and that variance can be granted without substantial detriment to the zoning plan of the township of Livingston you should also be aware that in order to be granted such a variance you will require an affirmative vote of five members of the seven member Board of adjustment other variances require a majority of six members to grant that variance note that we only have six people today if you're an applicant for any variance and your variance is denied by the this board you have a right to appeal to the superior court of the state of New Jersey within 45 days of notice of decision and that Court May overturn that the decision of this board if you're an objector to any type of variance has been granted you too May appeal to Superior Court of the state of New Jersey within 45 days of the notice decision if you do file an appeal I ask that you please provide a copy of Complaint to the planning administrator Jackie Hollis pursuant to the requirements of the open public meeting act also known as the Sunshine Law adequate notice of this meeting was provided to The Star Ledger in West cic Tribune and a copy was also posted on the bulon board of the mun municipal building in addition to having notice posted notice this meeting was placed on the Township's website members of the public will have an opportunity to ask questions or to make statements regarding each application at the appropriate time when the time comes if You' like to address the board please come to the front and use the microphone so we can make sure your comments or questions are part of the record we will now call the role miss holls Mr Kenya Mr Mr Miss Mirage here Mrs chairman here miss Yuan here chairman bear here we have our Quorum Miss Khan Mr horn and vice chair kanana are not present this even we do have our board attorney also present thank you Miss holls if you could call the first um application the first matter scheduled for this evening is a variance for Block 3501 lot 1595 be Terrace application number 20242 DV Tang t n g is the last name we not we'll note Mr chairman that that application has been adjourned to Tuesday December 10th at 700 p.m. like to pull the next one the next matter scheduled for this evening is a variance for Block 4545 lot 6 16 wiing Road application number 2024-25 DV Ian Telfer and Jodie arenus that was continued from August 27 2024 thank you would you be kind enough to uh state your name and spell it please absolutely Daniel dubinet d a n i a l last name dubinet du b i n TT Mr dubinet do you swear or affirm that any and all statements and testimony present to the board this evening will be true accurate and complete I do please consider yourself under oath would you please kindly repeat your I know that we went through this the L absolutely um I'll keep it short I got my master's degree from ngat in 1995 I was licensed in 2001 I've been practicing residential architecture for over 20 years I am a resident of Livingston I grew up in Livingston I my practice in Livingston and uh my license is current in in good standings okay does anyone on the board have any questions or objections regarding this witness there being no objections or winess is is accepted as expert in architecture you please tell us Jump Right In what you what have you done for us okay well first of all thank you for hearing our case again we were able to take the board's comments into consideration uh some of the neighbors uh their comments into consideration and we were able to we are still seeking a habitable floor area variance however we reduced our application by 279 Square ft so previously we were seeking a variance of 3,8 no sorry 3,798 Square ft which is about 19% of the lot again and I'll go through the uh testimony but we're in the R4 Zone however we have a lot size that's 19,830 Square ft so we're pretty large so the minimum required is 9,375 so we're significantly over so we felt before that the uh floor plan and design was appropriate but however we were able to find some square footage brings us down to a number of 3,519 square fet so without uh compromising too much of our internal space is we're able to like shrink some of the fat I guess and come up with a plan that brings us to 3519 which is 17.7 7% of this lot so it's a very low uh percentage uh not that we would ask for it but 30% is is the max allowed and we're at 17.7 and we also did some things uh chairman made a comment which uh I get it we took the we had two Gables and I'll go over the plans but we had two gable roofs that were a 12 on 12 roof pitch we we reduced the roof pitch to become 10 on 12 which brings down again the massing of the home and all this application is 100% about F or should not fa Hab the floor area and floor area really is a function of the mass of the home try to keep the mass of the architecture uh so it doesn't feel like it overpowers the site and or the neighbors so we don't need any other bulk variances we're 10 ft away from our adjacent neighbor on the right we're over 26 feet to the neighbor to the left and we are 42 feet back from the street uh for a garage and one interesting thing that I didn't have the information last time but there was a conversation about lock coverage so I was able to prare prepare for us an exhibit that shows uh the differential from what's existing to proposed it's about a 7% increase so again a modest increase in lot coverage compared to what we had um we also going to show you an exhibit where we decided to do the engineering on the project the the site engineering so as opposed to normally if we went to the town engineer they would look at what's existing versus what's proposed and the net differential is what you have to capture so we decided to present to the board and and testify that we would cover 100% of our impervious coverage so all the water that is on our property will stand on our property so before uh the house had no uh storm water management so now as a positive a strong positive of this application is that we will control 100% of our impervious coverage so really quickly if I may I'd like to take you through our exhibits and if I may um I'd like to mark this as exhibit a one so it's slightly different than what you have and it's a a series of slides it's a series of 16 slides Mr Mr Dubin you said you wanted to Market A1 but we had A1 Mar I apologize A2 so no this will be A6 okay all right thank you okay okay so the first slide is is is fairly easy we're seeing the existing uh survey with the house driveway detach garage our proposed on the right and we see how we're we're significantly far away from the neighbor neighor to the left which is a positive um our lot width is 100 ft wide and again in the zone 75 ft is the minimum so we're 25 ft larger than what's allowed and what's interesting about this design and it's all about the design of the house I think is that the house is only 55 ft wide if we had a 75 foot Li W Li W I can do that Li wide lot thank you and we we do the required setbacks 10 ft and 12 feet we would allow um a 55 ft wide home but because our lot width is 100 we'd be allowed a 70 foot wide home on this lot so we're at 55 ft so I felt like that was a very important design to maintain so we kept open in airspace uh around the neighbors and being 55 ft wide is a significantly different feeling than being 70t wide and 35t tall and you'll see in the architecture I stepped in the second floor so it's not a big gigantic Mass it actually has some movement um on the second floor I've brought the roof lines down from the top of the house down to the bottom to soften the feeli so I think that the design the architecture of the home hides the mass very well um will not negative atively impact the street gape the neighbors to the right to the left to the rear part of our plan and we'll testify to it is that we're not changing any grade in the back only one tree has to come down as a result of this application so we're we're we're we were of course obviously happy before and we were happy to try to make some uh adjustments and I think that now that the house is at 3,519 it's very Sim ilar to the R3 maximum and what's interesting is the R3 minimum lot size is 15,000 ft we're almost 20 so I thought that was a a kind of good measure to to work with the the next slides is is exactly what you have which is your floor plans and again I testified last time that the Genesis of this house and the plan derived from creating a floor plan that was efficient in terms of not needing a extra space we don't have a living room we don't have a separate dining room so we kept it and I like to run through it really quickly we have a two-car garage it's slightly larger than the 450 ft that they give us but we we did reduce the garage size we have a mud room when you walk in modest and size then you walk past the food pantry then we get to our kitchen and again everything was designed ergonomically for the depth of cabinets the size of the aisles the size of a nice Island and then we moved to our dining area which will be our breakfast and dining area and then a family room so again nothing extraneous or EXT temporate you know just really where the spaces were going to live um and we felt like okay that should be appropriate sizes and there's nothing very large about them uh there's a foyer and the foyer is a double height foyer and again that square footage is counted twice it's about 100 square F feet that we are accounted for for the second floor and a and a guest bedroom and bath on the first floor so again looking at the floor plan typically you might want to start out with a Center Hall Colonial but we loaded everything to the right and we kept the width of the home to the 55 so again I feel like that's an important uh something to bring back you know so I'm going to cut you off just a little bit um I think some of the stuff you kind of kind of gone through last time so you will focus more on the changes um from the masing those those pictures I think that'll be the most helpful I think perfect might be some people from the public who would like to see that too that would be great um so again we reduced the house by 278 uh square feet from the previous application which brings us to 3519 I I think I'd like to get to the part where most people were concerned about which is the coverage on the property so we get to this slide which we did not have before you do have it I guess in an exhibit we presented a couple days ago but what this shows is and Mr du can we Mr chairman with your permission um because are these exhibits that have been submitted to the board we submitted them uh on Friday but electronically so I don't know if it's something that you had the all right well let's go back let us go back to exhibit A6 all right you prepared that exhibit yes and what date is that exhibit uh the my God 27th of September is our date of the drawing okay so that's different than the one that's 918 that's a similar exhibit but not the same correct it should be the same if you have this engineering drawing it should be the same well the one that we have 918 was part of unless I'm not seeing clearly no I have 927 so we could say it's a different date and I can testify that the information is the same Jackie do you have A6 that was submitted electronically A6 yes and the this new exhibit that we have would you describe what that is please okay so this exhibit uh A6 no this is going to be a A7 A7 is a drawing my office prepared it's an engineering drawing that shows the storm water management for the property and what I'd like to and if I could what date is that 927 2024 and that was sent electronically on Friday yeah I'm sorry I can't hear you okay all right thank you okay so this drawing is is 100% Geared for lot coverage and storm water management so what we plan on doing is capturing the rear of the house into the gutters into the down bels and going underground into a storage tank a dryw tank or seepage pit and that seepage pit is designed to handle the back portion of the house and our plan is to then capture the front of the house and go underground and get ourselves to the storm water basin that exists at the property so ideally uh that's the best place to put your water because it goes into our U storm water sewer system and but because of the Topography of that I believe that we we'll be able to capture all the water that sheds off the roof ples that point to the front of the house go underground get into our stor water system and the back will be controlled via uh Mr I'm going to interrupt you again I apologize yes we don't have first of all we don't have copies of A6 and A7 and they're not we haven't picked it up electronically yet you was in a link that was sent on Friday okay we would need a copy sufficient to distribute to the board if you regardless of what the outcome is this evening that you that to miss miss Hollis please thank you okay so again so the uh and I if anybody wants to see the calculations I can go over the calculations if not I would move to uh I guess our next exhibit um but part of this grading plan in storm water management shows how we're going to uh protect all the trees at the back of the house and so I think there's some concern from The Neighbors in the rear what will the grade be what will the trees be and so at at the end of this project every tree that remains in the back stays only one tree like I said in the front of the house will come down as a result of this so there'll be no change to the grade in the backyard and again we'll capture all our water I'm sorry can we just go over the exact changes we requested last time because this engineering can work with you on that yes and get the approval but we need to know the zoning was yeah but what I guess what I just want to hit home about is if we went through the Engineering Process independent of this board we would only be required this is important we would only be required to get the net differential Mr Mr dub I'm going to interrupt you because the board has no jurisdiction over stor I just wanted to testify that we're going to control 100% of our water moving on but I I do know that the the neighbors had a strong concern about lock curvage and and since we're talking about lock coverage and and I know this is not a change but it was information I did not have previously because again the architecture is very the change to the architecture is very simple we reduced the square footage and I reduced the pitch of the roof to 10 on 12 um so those are like if I could just boil it down those are the only two changes that we made made from the prior application all the other information I'd like to present tonight is is information I didn't have before which might make everybody feel more comfortable about the the project we just need to know what it was changed what we requested just two things reduce the uh floor area and reduce the roof pitch so okay um on that note does anyone on the board have any questions regarding this testimony mrman yeah I got well two questions yes um on the previous drawings it showed the height of the roof um was like 3.95 and now it seems higher at 3413 I think because we made all the roof pitches 10 on 12 just to keep it uh to we changed the front pitches from 10 uh 12 on 12 to 10 on 12 so I think we changed all of them so that maybe brought the roof height up which I'm happy to change that to keep it at the 32 yeah yeah basically thank you um and then the other question is the I don't remember if we touched on this the last time but the Dormer that's that's like up in the seems to be in the Attic area is that just just Aesthetics for the back I think we uh one of the thank you uh and I apologize I forgot this change I didn't know it was substantial but there was two peaks in the back of the house I limited those and then we looked at it it was like well it looks kind of simple so the Dormer was uh to give it you know break up the the roof line okay thank you does any anybody in the public have any questions feel free to come up statements will be later questions now come on up let's get you up up front do you want to Rich 11 Claremont Avenue this is really too low Richard H 11 Claremont Avenue um uh block 405 lot 20 we're directly behind um the house in question here right on Claremont I I just have a quick question for the architect I I made a copy off the plans that were online I just I can't tell the square footage of the covered porch in the back can you give us the square footage of that yes I I could do that uh 245 square feet all right that was my question thanks that was easy next please come on up Allan Baron nine Claremont um we're we share a corner with the property so just like three or four questions go ahead um the square footage of the living space of the new home is what I'm sorry again the square footage of the living space is 3,519 Ft okay what what what is the allowable square footage for our an R4 house does can the board tell me that I can answer that 3220 okay I recall from last hearing that the board gave instructions that said if you're seeking a variance you have to provide you have to provide a reason uh the compelling reason that why you need that variance so what is the reason being given to exceed the variance for R4 there are many uh reasons uh first one being that we do have a lot that's almost 20,000 Square fet so we are we feel that uh I'm going to say we feel a it's a little unfair I'd like to show you an exhibit but in the R3 Zone if someone had this lot they could build this home we have this sized lot but for uh zoning reasons that um and and I like to maybe delve into that but for zon reasons we are significantly larger than most homes in the r Force so I think it's um appropriate to feel like okay well if we were in the R3 we could have this but what makes an R3 versus an R4 it's an imaginary line that you know they have to make different zones so we feel that it's uh unfair to say to us well you have this lot and if you were two streets over you could you could build this but since you're not um you can't are you seeking to reone at R3 no R4 if I can interrupt if I can interrupt you for a second I think the question was what's the hardship that is supporting the application for well there's a I guess there's two and I'm not an attorney but there's two types of hardships one is a C1 which is based on lot size um topography which may trigger variance the second is C2 so C2 is a flexible variance uh and or hardship that says okay well the the result of this application is not negatively going to impact the neighbor the neighborhood so there is no negative impact and so by allowing this it's okay and so that's where we're seeking a C2 which is we've done well and the other thing is that the if we designed a 3,220 ft home and if it was 70t wide which is allowed and 35 ft tall and close to the neighbors it would be worse so we feel like this is a better more sensitive although it gives us 300 Square ft a 10x3 room on a 20,000 foot lot I don't feel like that's egregious and I feel like I can stand here and say that this is a good application and that no one's light air space will be inhibited by this um so the width would be the same the height so I felt like okay well they've been here almost 20 years raising their family and we designed a plan that works for them and I don't think any part of the plan is egregious and obnoxious I think yeah so I I don't know if that thank you kind of two more two more questions when the last hearing wrapped up I know there was a recommendation from the board um on the house design to maybe rethink the wraparound driveway to the side because it unnecessarily possibly increases the impervious footprint and to be thinking more about a front-facing entrance into a two-car garage does the new plan still include the wraparound or does it have a front entrance now to the new plan still has the side facing garage which as a terms of what you see from the streetcape it's it's much more attractive than a front facing garage and again that's why we kept the width at 55 and the lot coverage of I wanted to get to it is to show you that the increase from what is existing to propose is only 7% so it's a very modest increase in lot coverage so we didn't feel like uh lot coverage was an issue it's 26% of the lot which is a very low coverage number um and I have some data to show that we're way as a percentage way under the enti like we're under than the neighborhood in terms of percentages and coverages and so to answer your question it's still a side phasing because I do recall the board some of the concern was that the the hearts get coming around the side of the house to the to the declining grade it also helps bring water around the house versus coming to the front of the house where it has to be swept up and great so my last my last question is maybe for the board um I'm I don't understand how these processes work I get confused very easily so I'm kind of confused by tonight's hearing um to some degree it was my understanding from being at the last hearing as well as I think some other folks my wife included um that the way the last hearing was left was that there was an argument made for a variance to the R4 um lot maximum size for a house the board declined that said go back and revisit that ideally if you can reduce the impervious footprint as well do that as well um there was wasn't a compelling reason given for building higher than the R4 zoning requirements I I I guess I'm a and I I I believe the direction was go and design a house we're not providing you with this variance go and design a house that fits within the R4 3220 Max house size and but yet we're back here kind of taking another stab at the Apple I'm just kind of trying to understand the process I thought the direction from the from the board last time was to say go build within the 3220 and at the same time if you can also try to reduce some of the impervious footprint and that's not what I'm hearing presented today so I'm just a little bit confused on what the what what what we're looking to answer try to uh clarify um as a board we have to see what's brought before us the application this the lot the house and if we're uncomfortable with something we try to make a recommendation to the app on how to make adjustments that might be more appealing or might sit better if you want whatever terminology you want to use with the board and or the public um the discussions last time were leading to a lot of it leads to the mass of the house and it was over but we also wanted to reduce the mass because there was a lot of concerns uh from the from the uh public other houses were a lot smaller and this was maybe yes there are some bigger houses on the street but maybe this was overwhelm so I think that's what they tried to do was to try to cut roof lines and everything else and also shrink but we we did not give direction to reduce to 3220 otherwise they wouldn't be coming back to us got okay so it was trying to get what what can you do to make it better for everybody and still have an app you know something that you want got so that's kind of where we we fall and we try to you know try to be fair all the way around gotcha appreciate that thank you no no problem are there any other questions for this witness okay does anybody want to make a statement on the board I'll make one um I I do feel that you have uh made some good concessions on the plan um one of um just knowing what was discussed the last time and the neighbors concern about storm water um if you if you are going to capture as you say that you know 100% off the site then that that's a benefit uh regardless of the driveway on the side um the only other condition that I would like to see would be that the um attic space can't be used in the future um as a living space um otherwise yeah absolutely that's my other concern thank you yeah anybody else on the board I have a question attic now the new design is it a pull downstairs pull downstair case Okay anybody in the public like to make a statement just please let Council sway you in sure I'll get used to this in the next 50 years um Rich Richard heler h e l l r e r correct all right Mr heler do you swear or firm that any statements you make to the board this evening will be true accurate and complete yes I do please consider yourself under oath okay um just in speaking to a a number of neighbors and some of them couldn't be here tonight because they're on a trip uh the neighbors still have a general problem with the size of the house I mean they did reduce the square footage of the habitable area a little bit they still have that covered back porch which doesn't count as habitable space it's still roofed space it's still part of the house space uh and that's 249 square feet as well added on to you know what they're talking about there um the other concern raised by my neighbor Allan Baron was you know the driveway I don't see how the storm water management system captures the water from the driveway right the water from the driveway is just going to run into the backyard it's not connected to leaders uh I could go over the engineering drawings but it will be connected you know I think there's still a concern expressed about that the fact of the matter is by far you know this will be the largest house in the three block neighborhood surrounding it it is an R4 Zone we think it should be res respected as an R4 Zone it's it's great that their lot is a little bit bigger but the town made a decision to create an R4 Zone in this area there's 88 houses in the neighborhood around the house on wiid Road Claremont Baldwin Terrace and the relevant part of Mount Haven up in that area and West Mount Pleasant Avenue on Route 10 adjacent to Wiens Road 88 houses in that area the average house size is 1,784 square ft 72% of the houses in the neighborhood are under 1,900 square feet in total uh six of the houses had rebuilds or Renovations in The Last 5 Years all were kept within the R4 requirement of 3220 um no house in the neighborhood is actually larger than 3,175 Square ft they're larger than that by far plus the covered porch so you know I think I think the concern is that the R4 Zone should be respected there are no other houses of this size and caliber in the neighborhood it's going to stick out like a sore thumb and no other house in the neighborhood has the side yard garage system as well it's you know aesthetically pleasing or not it it doesn't match the neighborhood the house the character of the house the mass of the house just doesn't match the neighborhood and I think that's the concern that the neighbors I don't want to say that the exact same thing that we said you know two months ago but I mean the neighbors still have many concerns on the size and design of this house and the way that it will fit in and we don't think it fits in with the neighborhood and so that's the concern that we want to raise if the board's interested we can make available tomorrow copies we have a copy of you know the square footage of every house in the neighborhood we can make that available if you're interested in receiving that as an exhibit I just don't have you know copies for everybody tonight so you you can let us know I I don't I don't think we need a copy that each application has to kind of stand on its own and it's the uh local streetscape so I appreciate that effort and understand what you're saying but there's you we can't look three blocks away it's it's the street it's the street it's the street five houses it's it's it's not like yeah so that we we get limited on certain stuff like that and but we understand your concerns and we you appreciate you bring that forward well the house is 14 windings and 18 windings or, 1400 Square F feet and 1323 Square F feet so those are your two closest houses right there they're under 1500 square F feet so those are their neighbors if I could Mr chairman Please Mr hel I just want to make sure so we're clear on the record are you familiar with the project memorandum that was issued by the um assistant Township engineered this dat of May 31 2024 the one denying their application is that what you're talking about no that that's the denial of the application there's another document that's entitled project memorandum in in it just for clarification among other things it says it appears that the proposed improvements may increase the impervious coverage on the subject property right as part of the building permit submission the applicant will be required to submit a lot surface drainage permit application with plans to verify that the scope of work with a summary of existing versus a proposed impervious coverage to verify that the net increases any additional grading and drainage that may be proposed limits disturbances Etc all demonstrating compliance with the township storm water management lot surface dra drainage ordinance number 35 2008 there's also comments about what happens with pipes and dry Wells that the engineering I'm not quaring I'm just trying yeah that's fine make a record of it um and it also references that the the existing property appears to have a shared driveway and talks about the driveway Dynamics but this is all falls within as Miss holler says with in the purview of the engineering department am I correct Jack yeah no I I I agree with that okay thank you very much no thank you come on forward it's matching as please please kindly state your name um Steph Lou I am representing 151 say it one more time slowly second 15 Winan's Road and your name again Steven Lou LW and are you appearing on behalf of yourself or are you representing someone yeah I'm representing 151 and road so my parents are but are you a lawyer or anything of that nature no I'm just resident of this Street then you can speak on behalf I'm going to suggest to you that you can speak on your behalf but you can't speak on behalf of someone else unless you go you go to the three years of law school that I had to do and do all that kind of stuff right does a MFA count in digital design and layouts did six years man come on Mr L do you swear or affirm that any statements you make to the board this evening will be true accurate and complete I do swear all right thank you consider yourself under oath thank you very much for your patience uh so just a little bit of background about myself um I have an MFA in design as well as layouts and you know computer graphics and stuff like that so kind of seeing these Maps definitely a little familiar to me um you know being within that field I've taught art for six years and the first lesson I normally teach my students is about proportion you know big tall small medium you know all that kind of stuff tall wide um just based off the layouts here I think it's just kind of clear that I don't think this house fits on this street uh growing up and living in Livingston for 30 years um you know I think it's a little bit out of proportion especially just the way how the street actually is um when you compare it to all the other houses you know with average variance of was it 18 what was it 1,831 ft um I just I really truly believe it doesn't fit on the street um and I apologize for being blunt about that uh but you know other than that you know according to you know Mr hel's points as well the term mcmansion it just the overall P I just don't believe it fits unfortunately um uh in addition to that you know I also do have a couple verbal uh authorizations uh one of my best friend's childhood friend actually lives at 18 W Road and you know unfortunately he's not here because he's traveling at the moment so uh speaking on as well as for him but um fortunately own Allan and Regina Chen at 18 wi Road and Wilkins at 20 wi Road as well as Grace and Joe Yang at 25 W Road in addition to Alena EO at 17 ex I'm I'm sorry yeah you can't present testimony on behalf of other people gotcha okay all right so that not looking to be difficult but what you're doing if it influences the board it's inappropriate so I can't my suggestion to you is you cannot talk about what other people in the neighborhood regardless of whether it's accurate or inaccurate got it say or present to this board I understand they might be away they might have something but they they have to come in and go under oath you can't testify on their behalf yeah totally apologize for that okay right yeah no worries uh but yeah you know thanks answer my own question come on up hey there I again yeah Ellen Baron nine CL do you do you swear or affirm or that any statement you make to the board this evening will be true accurate and complete yes I do all right considering yourself under oath please um yes um I will be I will be short um I am short anyway um I just wanted to share one I a little anecdote which is when I left the hearing last time I have to admit I think the board had commented on their appreciation for the civility that the neighbors had shown to the applicant and there was a lot of empathy in the room and I got to say I left frankly with a pit in my stomach um I didn't feel good about the variants not being granted um unfortunately I have been really busy with a lot more important stuff and but this card has been sitting on my desk for the last couple of weeks and I've been meaning to hand write it and I haven't got around to it I was going to write the applicant a letter telling them how I felt coming out of that hearing that I was not happy how it how it came out for them and to to to no disregard honestly um both myself some other people out of the other hearing to some degree felt that the Architects had done the family A disservice they had done the family A disservice by giving them the high hopes and expectations that they could build this house on an R4 Zone lot and that they had could do that without having a good reason for doing so and I felt I I just walked away feeling that we're very misled into the house design that the lot could support I actually drove around our neighborhood I drove around town I was doing this to help the applicant to be honest and I found houses all in our area that were frankly huge beautiful and I was going to present those addresses to them so they could see what was possible beyond what the architect was presenting nine Wildwood beautiful four bedroom 2 and 1 half um Bath House 3240 Square ft 56 Edgemere 3215 squ ft five bedrooms four baths within 3215 66 EDG mirr 3,000 square foot and 2 feet four bedrooms three baths 18 Park Drive five bedrooms six and a half baths 3200 ft 16 Shindler way four bedrooms 2725 76 96 edgmere another 3200 foot house five bedrooms four and a half baths four spear 3100 foot house and I was going to present 15 Wildwood which is right in our neighborhood again 2,300 Square F feet so my only point is there are where are a lot of different house designs that get you to a four and five bedroom house um to a very substantially sized house well with under that 3220 and I wanted to present that to the applicant with possibly even the suggestion one of the things they might want to do and I know it's expensive is to maybe get a second opinion on a design from another architect so they could see what was possible within the bounds of an R4 versus trying to take this design which clearly didn't fit the space and trying to like carve the corners off it and hone it down so I just wanted to share that with you because I felt bad about how it came out but driving around the neighborhood and looking at at Stats um you really can get you know four five bedrooms three four baths within 3220 it's really huge and then lastly I just want to reiterate some of the things that Rick Mr heler had said um just so the board understands because one of the conversations last time at the last hearing was this whole concept of Livingston to some degree you know in the H mcmansion conversation does need to somehow take care of its quote starter homes so that people do have an entry point into the town that was one of the issues raised last time there half the houses on winens are under 1500 square fet the average home size on wiins is 1831 that's the average there are only two houses on weins above 3,000 square ft those were both recent Rena one is one is 3175 um and then the other Rena is 20 26 not not 31 so and again if you look at the entire neighborhood um in the streets that are directly adjacent to wian so that's Mount Havens Claremont Baldwin uh the end cap that hits Route 10 that surrounds wiins um there's there's you know the there's there's no house that exceeds 3175 so it it just makes a statement to uh what the neighborhood looks and feels like and it also makes a statement around what is truly possible within 3220 and and and you can see some from some of these other addresses you can actually really do a lot with that with that size footprint but I think it's a lot harder getting there when you're starting with a 37 3800 s foot house and trying to trim it and hone it down to something else that's going to fit an R4 Zone from my perspective it does feel like the applicant is looking for a variance to make this an R3 Zone that's how I think the board should probably look at this that this is actually looking to rezone this lot um and if there's good compelling reason to rezone this lot for an R3 then I think you should probably uh accept their application but if there's not a compelling reason to turn this from an R4 to an R3 um simply because the lot is deeper um it is still an R4 and I agree with Mr heler the the the lot the zoning of the of the street should be uh should be respected we have rules for a reason so thank I have a question and then I guess my client would like to have a comment as well but uh you're in the neighbor in the rear this this guy here what I don't have this is you yes what I don't have have is your rear yard setback do you have an idea how deep your rear yard is from your back of your house to the property line um I don't I don't know exactly I saybe I I could probably look at the 70t something let's say 50 we're 100 you need to be near the microphone so it I'm sorry I said 50 to 70ish I don't I could get the exact call it 50 call it 50 we are 100 ft away from your property plus your 50 so we're talking 150 ft away we've testified that we're not changing grades we're not changing trees so of course we look at the negative impact uh to the neighbors and I just don't see it other than uh you could say okay well we reduced the house 300 squ F feet I can guarantee you you will not notice 300 square fet plus or minus so I feel like I I did do a service for my client they did ask for this um I didn't impose this I I gave them their wishes and their wants and they wanted uh 3800 and I convinced them uh to let's bring it down let's let's let's come to an agreement so I think it's kind of unfair to be 150 ft away through a a dense set of trees and and still have a problem with if I if I if I can respond if I can respond because you and I had a good conversation before the last hearing and I did relay my concerns about drainage because over the years yes we have invested heavily in backyard irrigation systems to get a lot of that runoff we get most of an runoff because you can see the grade does if you look at the grade map the topography you can see it runs from uh the upper corner down to our corner but we have mitigated that both with the natural burm with the irrigation we put in place and I'm highly appreciative of leaving most of the trees on the property not cutting down the signature trees and all the irrigation systems put in so I I have zero complaints about that and and thrilled you're doing that I think that's a very different issue however than uh whether the house fits in with the neighborhood and the other size of the houses in the area which I but Mr chairman with your permission uh I think both both parties have indicated you might I think you agree to disagree all right and you've articulated both of you where you are so I don't think that any further unless there's something exceptional that I'm missing that you need to go any further thank you very thank you please okay do I have this on high board thank you again for um sorry that's taking so long but appreciate your time again S I need to interrupt you and I apologize I need would you to say your name and spell it it's Jody arenus a r a n i a s Telfer and Mr arenus you understand that the testimony that you're going to give this evening or the statements you're going to make are going to be true accurate and complete absolutely yes and you're the you're you're a homeowner Here I Am the homeowner of 16 weens Road thank you very much consider consider yourself under oath thank you um just I just wanted to mention we are very happy with Danny as our architect and he definitely did not do us a disservice we had asked for this my husband and I have been living here for 18 years so this was our starter home starter homes eventually grow and we have been in this neighborhood have no problems with any of you guys and quite frankly never even saw many of you over the years cuz different age of our kids or whatever but we did take into consideration a lot of your concerns and I really hope that you understand that we don't plan on leaving and we really love this neighborhood and if you look around town this is a great town people want to be here um there's other blocks in the area that have beautiful homes that they built and maybe even bigger than ours that are next to little sizes but I think that for us staying in this place with the plan that we work done with Dany definitely um took into consideration a lot of your things for our starter home and now we're ready to move up with our family and to this same property that we own but thank you for listening to me and appreciate everybody's time tonight thank you do you have a question no ST please yes please hi Judith heler 11 CL Claremont Avenue directly behind the property in question I do thank you I just want to point out that this is an R4 zone so the size of the property is irrelevant if you want to put something in an R3 zone go to an R3 Zone otherwise what's the point of having zones at all just because it's larger and I get it it's larger you want to use the space it's it's I get it but all of the neighbors have expressed their concerns and the way in which this does not fit in with the rest of the thing you can think what you want but drive down the street nobody's got a driveway on the side nobody's got any of the gate nobody's got any of it and nobody's got 3,500 square feet 3220 is the rule and I think honest to me it's a slap in the face to every neighbor who spoke about this to come back with something that's more than 3220 and does not address that side driveway that was specifically mentioned so thank you I I guess I'll chime in a little bit here and um as I've stated we do everything we can to listen to everybody and we do listen to everybody um but putting a few ground rules in place is we can't design the sty of the house we don't care how many bedrooms there are inside they could put in 45 or one that doesn't make a difference to us and I'm just trying to explain so everyone understands where we're sitting from um yes it is it is over the difference if they took 2 and A2 ft off the side of the house this would be 3220 I'm not saying it's right or wrong I'm just from a calculation point of view I I'm an engineer um they could break this 35 ft high and square one big box and we can't say anything about it it could be 30 3220 and a big Square totally and that's perfectly legal we can't decide where the driveway is we can't decide how they design the house we don't desde how many bedrooms we can only look at the property and the application and the concerns and try to keep things in control right we all don't want mcmansions I don't think Mr Duan wants to make a mcmansion we don't want mcmansions that's why we have rules we have habital floor area and we have habital floor area ratio both looking at two different things um and I'm just trying to explain so everyone really understands and the idea of those two controls is to control the size of the house right and we have to take that information as a board digest it and decide if it's really egregious or not egregious so the other thing was the water that that's really nonissue we you know and I think they did try to take care of that from my opinion they were trying to capture all the water which they don't have to they can still let as much water that runs off today run off tomorrow that's the rule I think they're trying to do that um so I just wanted to clarify because I know there's a lot of concerns I understand that I think this board recognizes it uh I think over the years I'm in this boort for a long time now I've been very consistent trying to work with everybody so I just wanted to bring that forward um does anybody else on the board have any comments to that or to anything else that's been said would anybody like to make a motion Mr Mr chairman if I could please um the applicant should understand that there's six members of the board sitting here in order to get an approval of a d4 variant you need five yes votes so we don't have a full compliment of seven so if it comes in four to two and I'm not have no idea how anybody's voting I don't discuss that with them and I don't know but understand I know that you don't have an attorney with you you're proceeding with a board of only six members which means you would need to get five yes votes out of the six board members if you're prepared to proceed do you understand that okay you indicated yes all right so it's up to you whether you want to proceed now I'll just add in that if it does get voted down anything that comes back has to be substantially different than what you have now you can't just say oh I'll take the two feet off and it's good it has to be a substantially different design is that correct coun that's correct so just so just so you understand all the rules I want you and if you want to talk to your architect over that yeah because the law is designed so that and not your application if an application comes in and gets denied you just can't come back with with the same application or something a little similar and try and do something else you'll be prohibited from doing that by law not by them but by the law so before you proceed you need to consider the six votes or the six members here and whether or not you want to take that risk okay we have one more this will be the last one you need to move forward what oh okay then we'll Beyond okay my mistake then oh yeah hi my name is Ray L wait wait hold it I I regret to inform you that we concluded the public comment so we can't open it again we're at the point now where the board's going to make a decision depending upon what the applicants said I I don't make up the law I just have to enforce it that's okay sorry about that if I heard that to the mic they didn't catch that hi yes I do feel good about this application so we'd like to move forward please okay thank you okay would someone on the board like to make a motion if I could for one second hold that thought all right from my understanding there's three conditions that the applicant has agreed to to provide to the to the to miss Hollis or whoever is appropriate the A6 and A7 exhibits in multi in the necessary number of of of exhibits that need to be produced that the roof is agreed is going to be 32 feet and that the attic space is not living space and will remain non- living space is that accurate yes so the affirmative answer is yes so in the event in terms of what the board is Con considering whether or not to approve this application if it approves it'll be with those three conditions yes thank you well one other question though what about the water conditions since they said they were going to capture 100% I know we don't have purview but it's really you really can't make that a condition you can hear it and consider it but respectfully that's something for the engineering department to make that determination as is set forth in the project memo that I was discussing with Mr heler previously by the way the resolution if approved will say that they have to comply with the project memorandum okay would anyone like to make a motion I'll make a motion please I'll second it is the motion for approval yeah okay thank you Mr chairman that was a motion for approval with the um conditions uh noted on the record Mr Kenya yes please those conditions apply Miss marage yes Mr sha yes with the conditions Mr Sherman yes Miss Yuan yes and Miss beer yes motion carries thank you thank you everyone in the public for attending and being a part of this we do really appreciate it the next matter schedule for this evening is a variance for Block 4009 lot 13 27 Mount Haven Drive application number 20 24-44 DV 27 Mount Haven LLC got 81 hold on no new one yes right to the point right to the point I'm done good Council would you please identify yourself for the record yes Matthew P Law Firm SS C and gross representing the applicant 27 Mount Haven LLC okay in terms of the witnesses that you're going to present yes I'm gonna have two witnesses uh first I'm going to have my architect and then following my architect I'm GNA have my planner uh my architect is aan cedra and my planner is Nick raviana thank you with your permission I'd like to swear in both of those gentlemen sure do do you both confirm or acknowledge and agree that any testimony or statements you give to the board this evening will be true accurate and complete I do I do please consider yourselves under oath I'll let Mr pad make a decision as to how to qualify either both of you sure let me just qualify straightforward um Mr cedra can you please describe uh what professional degrees you hold and whether or not your license is still in good standing and name two boards you've been qualified before in the past sure um I uh graduated from Egypt from uh faculty of Engineering in 1999 and I became licensed architect here in 2016 I'm licensed in New York and Pennsylvania and Tennessee as well uh I testified in front of this board and also um brother Ford Mayon Jersey City to name a few um my license is still in a good standing terrific does this board accept them as a professional in architecture does anyone in the board have any questions objections regarding this witness there be no objections the witness is accepted as expert in architecture terrific and then I also like to uh qualify my expert in planning Mr Nick Riano same questions can you please State what professional license you have and when not they're still in good standing and just name two boards you've been qualified in the past as a professional planner yes hold a bachelor's degree from Ruckers University a master's degree in city and Regional planning from Ruckers University a law degree from the Temple University School of Law licensed professional planner in the state of New Jersey I've been qualified by this board as well as over 100 boards in 18 different counties in the state of New Jersey that's more than two but thank you does anyone of the board have any questions objections regarding this witness there no objections the witnesses accepted as expert in planning thank you board terrific thank you everyone tonight we're here for a habitable floor area ratio variance originally when we were proposing this application we had anticipated that it would have been an addition of recently we realized that the foundation and the walls themselves truly don't have the structural Integrity so purposes of construction we are going to modify so it's going to be a complete demo construction rebuild however none of the bulk standards are changing it's the exact same footprint the only difference is we're not going to keep the foundational walls anymore we're demoing them to do new walls everything else same thing same relief uh with that being said the ratio itself unfortunately is a product of the fact that the site is undersized it is a natural hardship that we have uh we could have built this development up to 3,220 Ft we a little more than 200 square feet below that taking into consideration the character of the neighborhood and those bulk standards so we didn't trigger any other variances to get that assurance that it could actually be accommodated with that being said I'd like to have my architect take away what we're looking to do here um I'm going to start with going over the plans um this house um the first floor consists of um we're entering the house from the entry porch to a two-story foer we have on the left side we have the dining room and the living room on the right side we have two car garage going back to the back side of the house we have the kitchen and family room in the back and also we have the guest room with its own bathroom and closet also we have a powder room and Pantry in this level as well um the livable area in this floor is 1,457 square ft the garage area is 461 Square ft uh next to that we have the basement plan which it will consist of uh um uh open rck room uh also we have a play room and uh bedroom with its own egress AIS um we have also a bathroom in this floor plan as well uh the next sheet is the second floor uh the second floor consists of four bedrooms with one being the master bedroom with its own closets and U the master bathroom uh two of the bedroom share uh a bathroom and they have also uh walk-in closets uh the bedroom number four it's in Suite bedroom with its own closet and uh bathroom also this floor has the laundry room we have a pull down stair in in front of the linen closet the pull downstairs is for to access the attic space um the the elevations of this building um it's a colonial style home with um uh this is the rendering here that shows the outside it's again it's a colon Mr sedra this uh rendering you have here that was not submitted as part of the original application correct this render uh it was submitted yes it wasn't submitted as part of the original application but it was emailed I think on Friday or okay to earn the side of cost I just want to enter this in as A1 rendering of the proposed Improvement thank you thank you um I'm sorry going back to the second floor I just want to go over the area so the the livable area for the second floor is 1,550 with the total floor area ratio of 34.986489 square ft below this number um the the the design of the building it's a colonial style home with the some Modern accent to to show um Hardy horizontal Hardy uh um planks and um you know some wood slats stained uh the color is between white and black uh we have a standing seam metal roof above the porch area and the and the garage uh and also we have a a stone base um you know just to decorate the the porch area um the the rear and the sides of the house uh will be with the lab siding again um throughout the the whole rear and the two sides uh the windows will be black dark black roof um uh that's kind of like everything and just to confirm the attic itself is a pulled out so there would be no way to accommodate habitable space correct correct yeah the attic is just fall down and actually the height of the building is 30 ft U 4 and 3/4 um and if you look at this rendering the highest the highest point of the wall from the attic floor is 5T so it's not it's a very shallow roof line perfect I have no further questions for this witness Mr chair I just want to confirm Miss Hollis do you have a copy of the rendering yes okay thank you anyone in the board have any questions for this witness anybody in public have any questions for this witness moving right along oh you know right yeah the application has to be changed it says that it's for modification to the existing home it's completely new home that is correct that's true no longer keep those foundational walls so with the permit submitt submission will change the name to new single family home you need to update the application that's what they're saying right that's what yes did we update the application since then no it's still the same application it was a recent news that we realized we couldn't keep the foundational walls I think the the subject line of the application needs to get updated that's what you're saying right yes on the pl themselves should be updated yes yes yes okay thank you please Perfect Nick you please walk why you believe justifications for for D4 variants certainly uh the applicant is before you this evening requesting a D4 F variance for a specific piece of property known as block 409 lot 13 on the Township tax maps this is a house which presently contains an existing single family dwelling the applicant will be demolishing the single family dwelling to construct a new dwelling under current building codes also will be uh fixing some existing zoning uh setback deficiencies that exist um as indicated in Mr pad's intro this is an undersized lot which is roughly 750 square F feet smaller than the required lot size of the district uh the applicant is requesting a 4.98 f uh habitable floor area uh variance um the applicant as previously stated is 200 square ft under the habitable floor area area number um so this is certainly a house which is befitting of the size and the intent and purpose of the district uh when we look at the F variants the applicant must demonstrate that the lot can accommodate the increased F when you look at this lot it certainly advances purpose of zoning a of the municipal land use law promotion of the public health safety morals and Welfare uh the existing house has a sidey yard setback of 6.16 Ft with an aggregate sidey setback of 16 uh feet and change uh which are both below ordinance standards The applicant's Proposal will be increasing the setbacks to a conforming scenario both from the individual sidey guard setback and the combined sidey yard setback certainly advancing purpose uh a additionally it advances purpose G sufficient space and appropriate location for a variety of residential uses to meet the needs of New Jersey citizens uh there is no substantial impairment to the Zone plan or zoning ordinance with the granted in these variances uh with respect to the public good the applicant is adding onsite storm water management system which does not exist today so it'll certainly be an improvement over the current condition I have no further questions for with Mr pada can I want to make sure I heard it correctly so that the existing non-conforming conditions right that is the right but those under the new home will will be the same the exact same okay right I'm sorry I wanted to make sure yep thank you does anybody on the board have any questions for this witness anybody in the public have any questions for this witness I thank you does anyone on the board want to make a statement um I I I'll just say I appreciate you keeping the mass down on this and um you had me really confused when I saw Dash lines for the wall I'm like what they that's all I figured it out so like what's going on here so would anybody like to make a motion I'll make it I'll second it that will be with the condition that the attic is not livable space correct yes yes yes thank you Mr Kenya yes Mr Sherman yes Mrs sha yes Miss Mirage yes Miss Yuan yes chairman Bear yes thank you motion cares thank you thank you Miss how when you're ready if you can call the next application the next matter scheduled for this evening is a variance for Block 6001 lot 31 14 Tower Road application number 202 24-50 DV 29 Tower Road LLC please what would you do if he said no thank you I'm I'm here all week you sure you want me to turn it on maybe you're better off with it all may I be seated okay well good evening everyone for the records purpose my name is Steven shepis it's a great pleasure to be before you this evening uh as similar to the other applications that uh you've entertained this evening uh my client 29 Tower Road LLC is uh property owner is petitioning this board for a uh habitable floor area variance also a front yard setback variance and a rear yard setback variance uh the property is in a R2 two residential Zone uh I'm not going to belabor the point I'm going to introduce the uh one and only witness this evening John um babula he is the project architect he's very familiar with the site and the uh plans so no further Ado I'd ask that he be sworn and briefly State his credentials for the record good afternoon Mr Baba do you swear or affirm that any o statements and testimony give to the board this evening will be true or accurate and complete I do please consider yourself under oath and I'll leave the credentials to Mr shef very good Mr Babu would you please uh briefly State your credentials as an architect for the record sure I graduated from NGIT with the Bachelor of architecture in uh 2004 uh I've been practicing architecture for over 20 years I received my uh New Jersey license in 2015 and I have testified before about over a dozen boards between Morris Bergen and Sussex County I have testified before this board uh a few times and my license is current and in good standing very good I offer Mr Bab as a licensed uh architect to provide expert testimony in that area of expertise does anyone on the board have any questions objections regarding this witness there be no objection the witness is accepted as expert in architecture very good Mr babula uh in conjunction with this application you prepared plans is that fair to say yes and are your plans based upon A current survey yes and is your survey shown on the on the plans that are here this evening correct so why don't you briefly tell us a little bit about the property the size of the property the zoning of the property what exists on the property and what's proposed for the property not necessarily in that order sure the uh existing on the property is a a on story uh single family dwelling the property is in the R2 Zone it is uh an undersized lot uh 25,000 square feet is required where uh 10,625 exist um the existing front yard uh setback is um 50 ft we're proposing 45 uh the the lot size itself is uh 85 ft by 125 where what is required is um 125 ft by 200 so we're 40 feet more narrow uh than what is required but we are still uh conforming to the uh sidey yard setbacks which are 15t on each side uh the 200 feet that is required we are at 125 so we're 75 ft short which gives us the hardship for the front yard variants and the rear yard variants which we are seeking um the uh let's see the proposed uh building coverage allowed is 2,655 square ft uh currently it's 1,600 and we are proposing 291 so we're about 500 square fet below the building coverage that's required the maximum floor area that is allowed in this R2 zone is 4,870 square ft uh we are um going to demolish this one-story house build a new two-story house which is going to be 3,300 sare ft so we're about, 1500 square ft than uh lower than what's allowed uh for the floor area uh we are seeking a floor area ratio uh variance 18% is allowed which if the lot was conforming would mean 4,500 square feet um we are asking 31% which again is that 3,300 uh square feet all right John Let's T let's tackle the front yard setback variants attached to the application itself was an aerial photograph uh Google Earth how does this proposed front yard setback of 45 feet comport with the other front yard setbacks along that side of Tower Road um it actually lines up with uh the the neighboring properties on either side most of the houses are at that 45 ft give or take yeah I would bring to the board's attention that next to the application is a copy of the filed map uh which was uh filed with the county clerk and it shows on the file map a required front yard setback in this uh in this development it was a private deed restriction of 45 ft so it seems to stand to reason that the original developer set the houses all at 45 ft based on the file map uh restriction so is it fair to say Mr babula and the houses on either side of us and going right along that side of the street are all basically set back at 45 ft yes okay so now let's talk about the rear yard setback uh how deep is the lot the lot is25 ft okay now I've presented to the board a an exhibit which I've took the liberty of pre-marking as exhibit A1 have you had opportunity to review this four-page exhibit A1 yes yes I have now there are a series of eight photographs and next to A1 are you familiar with what's depicted in those photos yes do those photos fairly and accurately depict the condition of the property at 14 Tower Road as well as those other houses shown there 18 Tower 16 Tower 17 Tower yes and the street view as well yes they do okay so let's talk about what's uh on the street uh and likewise there is like a key map with the third page you see the key map yes so it shows the properties in question so let's take the first one that's shown there uh 18 Tower tell us a little bit about the size of that house and its relationship to where our house is and how it comports with that home uh 18 Tower is a two two houses down to the left of the subject property it is a more modern uh two-story uh Colonial there and that one is about 3,100 ft so on the key map it's the one that's uh highlighted like and a pink correct correct all right so now let's look at the 16 Tower the one next over uh that would be the one that is green and uh that is another um it's a little bit older of a two-story Colonial uh but that one there is again two-story and that one is about 3,100 ft as well now where you getting this floor areas from these houses from uh I got them from the uh tax tax records that from Livingston Township uh it's from New Jersey yes so let's take a look at 17 Tower which is across the street the blue lot that's highlight lighted on the corner of Tower and Beacon again that's a more modern uh two-story Colonial and that one is about 3,400 ft all right so now turning to the subject property on the key map Lot number 31 that's highlighted in yellow let's talk about what's there and then likewise if you could address the uh second set of photos uh photos uh seven and eight with regard to what's behind this so the the existing uh lot or the dwelling that is there again is a one-story Ranch uh it's a bit out for today's modern standards so we are proposing to uh demolish this house here and build a more modern uh two-story Colonial um the rear of the properties uh here it's it's mainly wooded there's woods behind this property and the the properties behind this and it's over 100 ft to the neighboring rear prop or house okay so as you turn to the fourth page in exhibit A1 uh the subject property it's depicted with an x on it is that fair to say yes so the lots that are behind us are deeper lots that front on Route 10 is that correct yes so there's uh houses on those lots that's front on Route 10 and their backyards back up to us correct okay and the photographs that you see there as being photographs seven and eight depict a wooded area and somewhere beyond the trees is the homes that front on Route 10 is that fair to say yes okay so let's talk about the rear yard setback that you're proposing and why it is that you're proposing a deviation uh again the the rear yard setback to the dwelling it's itself is 37.5 where uh um how much is required 50 ft is required so it's about uh 13 square or 13 ft less and uh mainly that's because the uh the property should be 200 feet in depth and we are at 125 and we also wanted to keep that 45 foot front yard set back so um it triggered the rear yard okay now what about the wooden platform on the back of the house how close is that to the rear prop that is uh 33.4 to the rear yard uh so it sticks out a little bit more and that's just uh an entry or an exit out of the the back door there okay now let's get to the 600 lb gorilla in the room let's talk about the habitable floor area ratio let's see what you got there I know you're in the R2 Zone which is substantially uh larger lots and bigger homes so let's talk about what's proposed why you're proposing it and how you can justify it uh again the um we're asking for 31 uh% where 18 is is required uh but this forget about the percentages for a second cuz the math sometimes is befuddling right how big in square footage is the house that's proposed on this property as it relates to the houses that we see here in the photographs uh one two and three uh it's it conforms right with the the neighboring uh houses that are around there they're all between 3100 ft and 3,400 ft and we're at 33 Okay please continue uh so again the um this lot is uh more closely related to to the R4 Zone uh and in the R4 Zone you're allowed 30% of uh of F and we're at 31 here so all right so let's talk about what's permitted in this Zone the R2 what's the maximum uh habitable floor area itself not the ratio but the square footage uh 4,870 is allowed and we are 3,300 and likewise what's the percentage as it relates if this was a conforming lot at 25,000 ft where would 18% get us uh 4,500 you would be allowed okay why don't you show us the house and tell us a little bit about the architectural elements what's proposed what type of exterior materials and what one can expect to see of this house as they drive down Tower Road so here again we have a a more modern two-story Colonial um with some Peaks for architectural accent we have a frontload uh two-car garage uh a covered front entryway uh some Stone a accents on the bottom and uh horizontal Hardy Board Siding okay now is it similar in style to the home that's at 18 Tower yes very similar in St okay um I don't really have anything else for Mr babul is certainly available for questions thank you does anyone on the board have any questions please yes I see the elevations uh you have a total of about 20 ft between first floor and second floor and the total height is 33 ft so where is that 13 fit is is going to be in the Attic area or uh yes that that the rest of that will be in the Attic but there there is no there's going to be a pull down stairs so there's no habitable addict or or anything like that proposed anybody else have any questions please I guess the only other question that I had is um I know you had said that the uh 4 yard setback was 45 the existing on the map was 45 I know your schedule a in the application says 45 but on your zoning table you have it as 42 and a half as the average oh uh if you do the actual average calculation of where the front yards are it is about 42 but the there is the um the ORD or the uh field map that says it should be 45 I have one question I don't know if I don't remember if you mentioned it how does the back line up with the other houses um let's see from the aerial photo it's going to be very similar to what is what is there especially at 18 Tower um the the proposed house is about 10 ft uh larger in depth than the existing I'm just trying to look at the aerial photo that I don't have but yeah it's it's not going to it's not closer to the property line than than the neighboring properties okay thank you is anybody else have any questions does anybody in the public have any questions for this witness you have a question yes please Mr shef is uh Mr bahul is going is opining that that the proposed development as designed exhibits adequate capacity to accommodate the proposed excess H habitable FL area ratio um without substantial detriment correct yes sir and it's consistent with as he's testified to the other things in the other properties in the neighborhood correct thank you I just wanted to make that clear yeah and what I find is uh compelling in this particular situation is as you can see the last page on the uh exhibit is the zoning map and uh this property being in the OR two Zone it's recognized that larger homes uh are um are appropriate in this area otherwise you would have had it zone for something different and in light of the fact that Mr babula testified that you're looking at potentially A Home of 4500 ft and this is not out of keeping with the homes uh that are immediately contiguous that's why we felt it was important to give you the key map so that you could see where these other homes are in relation thank you very much okay if you we don't have any further Witnesses and I think I've said enough okay no argument from the board um would anybody like to make a motion I'll make a motion I'll second it you can give it to all right second over there I second Miss Kenya yes Miss Yan yes Mr sha yes Miss marage yes Mr chairman yes chairman Bear yes thank you motion thank you very much we appreciate your time and your consideration thank you we' like to call the last application please yes the next matter schedule is a variance for Block 404 lot 18 one Rock Hill Drive application number 2024 d45 DV satian sampa yeah have a seat please be comfortable thank you um thank you board uh for giving me the opportunity to speak uh my name is saan s I'm a resident of one Rock Hill Drive um Mr s can I interrupt you for a second sorry would you be kind enough to say your name again and then spell it for us San is a first name S as in Sam a as in apple t as in Tom Y is in yellow e as in elephant n as in Nancy last name is Sam Pat s as in Sam a as in apple M as in Mary p as in Peter a as in apple t as in Tom and you're are you going to present testimony or you having someone else testify I'm going to give you a brief summary and then uh Mr duin will help me with other technical details so Mr sampa will you swear or affirm that any statements and testimony give to the board this evening will be true accurate and complete yes I do and if you would we can qualify or we can put under oath your architect sure right would you again state your name and spell it for us please yes Daniel dubinet d n i a l du u b i n Mr duet do you swear or affirm that any of all statements and testimony give to the board this evening will be true accurate and complete I do uh would you state your credentials please for the board again uh master's degree architecture NGIT 1995 uh my license uh 2001 and it's current and in good standings and I've appeared before for this board before thank you Mr Mr Duan does anyone the board have any questions objections regarding this witness there being no objections a Witnesses accepted as expert in architecture all yours thank you sir um so I'll start again um I'm a resident with at one Rock Drive Livingston New Jersey I live there with my wife and two kids um the as we've been there from 2014 onwards um the house is already under construction we've gone through the permit process and everything the construction started in um late May early June um the original plan uh we don't have a basement in the house uh it it was originally a split level um and when we worked with Mr duin to construct the house the original desire was to uh build an attic area uh for our um like kids to have what are what would be a replacement of the basement um but when we submitted the plans we didn't include them in the original plans because of the cost differences that uh you know I was provided by The Architects uh by the contractor sorry um so we originally thought of building the first level and the second level um and then um you know in the middle of the construction when the construction started the contractor kind of explained that it's relatively cheaper uh to do build the attic area as well from a living perspective versus uh like finishing the construction and then having having all of them to come back here basically right so you know I was uh I wanted to do the right by the town and that's why we are here uh to request for a variance of that uh living space um like you know in the Attic area it's mostly it's not like you know there's no kitchen or anything like that it's more of a like play area for the kids uh that's the very brief summary uh I'm not like you're not trying to add anything more the structure of the house Remains the Same with or without the living area of their attic uh the mass of the house Remains the Same the outside everything Remains the Same as has been approved we are not making any major changes to the house it's uh we just um like you know going to use it to for the kids to have what would have been a basement basically so with that I'll request Mr duin to give you guys more technical details about the house thank you very much for listening to me thank you thank you uh so again this Pro is located on one Rock Hill Drive I would like to submit this as an exhibit the slides I have uh in front of you they can okay we we'll identify this as exhibit A1 than would you and would you describe it for us yes um this exhibit is uh photographs an aerial photograph of the site the plans that you have in addition to I wanted to document the house house is is today so I took some photographs today to show you uh how the house looks today and a little bit of the neighborhood uh to give you context so how many how many docu how many pages or sheets are in this exhibit do we have this six uh slides six slides yeah who prepared who prepared the slides I prepared the slides do the slides accurately depict the images that are set forth in each of the six pages they do or six slides for thank you it's exhibit A1 thank you so uh oh it moved well my little rectangle move but uh the subject property is one Rock Hill we are on the corner of bufort and Rock Hill and like we talked about a little bit in the in the beginning is we're here seeking a variance for habitable floor area and habitable floor area ratio and there'll be no change to the exterior so no additional Dormers added and so the house was planned as a pull down staircase of course in the future to allow them some future expansion but they would like to make future today and be allowed to finish the Attic So take away the pull down staircase add the add the steps and finish the space with no change to the exterior and this is um allowed if we close our permits and then reopen and that was something we talked about that okay you don't have a basement and I can show you the plans uh that there is no basement and it is just an additional space for the kids to play it's in the Attic you know so it has the sloping roofs and I would like to run you through the plans so this is the basement plan and the only they they have a small mechanical room which is this rectangle in the far left corner and the rest of the house with its additions and Renovations is is just a slab on grade so technically uh there's just this little mechanical room and then it's a split level home that's being renovated and in the Attic portion it would yield us uh this gray area is so the way we look at it is anything above 6'6 in height in the Attic that's accessible counts as F so that that shaded area will be um 1,078 Square F feet I could go over the numbers really quickly uh the short story is that we are seeking a variance um the proposed is 5,702 square fet it's 22% uh 22.1 8% of the lot 18% is required so we're 4.18% larger um than allowed and 1,78 ft uh in terms of the numbers uh and again what makes this unique is I mean it's a very interesting application but there's technically no basement to the house that's that's usable and then there will be no change to the exterior so I'd like to show you uh what is the exterior I think the best way is maybe the the photographs of of what's happening today so it's hard to control this the the house has already been built right we're almost everything is approved we just talking about the the attic right now yeah we're just talking about adct so there'll be no change to roof I think we need to see all I'm sorry yeah there's a very interesting I don't know uh uh zoning that that Livingston has that is if you don't make any changes let's say you build your house and we are approved and you have the pull down staircase which we're talking about uh if you if we were to close our permits few months later reopen them it doesn't count as eff are so it's this gray area that exists and so um yes if we close our permits reopen up a permit it won't be included an inhabitable floor area or the ratio Mr chairman that that is correct that's section 17087 dd1 under the current ordinance yeah but doesn't I'm confused on that though because doesn't that say that's just about the floor area that doesn't say anything about the r if you exceed the ratio and you're still allowed yes I didn't know about that um so again I I'm not going to the technical technicalities of it but to answer your question uh we are like you know that was originally the plan right we are not doing anything different than what we had originally intended to do uh which was to close the permits and not now like very much in the future like say if we can add to the I think area but then I was given very exorbitant numbers by the contractors to come in later and do all the same stuff and like you know this is like we trying to bite the bullet right now and just get the work done while the contractor and everybody is there in the house and reduce our like you know pressured on us in terms of moving out and moving back in and with young kids so that is the only desire right now to get this done basically so this is a view this is interesting so the this the one Rock Hill is on the left and uh three Rock on the right so I just wanted to show you the context that the house fits very nicely within the neighborhood it uh as a context um and then i' like to take if I can this is from today this is how the house is so they'll again be no change to the roof lines um this is the front oh my gosh this is the side elevation that faces bufor so um contextually uh we have no uh well nobody in the front of course but because we're on the corner lot and bufort and then the woods and then I guess it's Eisenhower um no one is negatively affected by this and of course there's no change to the roof lines that will exist so it'll just be a benefit um um for Mr s hat that he could have a place for the kids to go and then I wanted to show you contextually this is um across the street this is number six Rock Hill and then we have number five um and then we have our adjacent neighbor number three so no kind of uh impact to the or negative impact to the neighbors or the streetscape or anybody but allow them some additional space that they would love to have for the children to play and again most houses have a basement and I actually tried to convince them originally let's knock it down and build a gigantic basement and contextually he wanted to uh keep um a lot of the character of the house but be able to expand it and that's where we're at today okay does anybody in the board have any questions for this witness do anybody in the public have any questions for this witness please miss Hollis do you have a copy of exhibit A1 okay um Mr du um are you alining that the variance for an increase in the permitted floor area as requested is compatible to what's going on and and can be accommodated by this without any substantial detriment to the zoning plan or the ordinances ABS is that correct that is correct and you're saying that the proposed improvements are compatible with other neighborhood properties as you demonstrated in these photographs correct yes all right thank you I have that thank you does anybody on the board want want to make a statement I want to make a statement um the way I see this plan is to basically add a third level of livable space that's total about a th a th000 square feet on top of the 4,600 we already um you know uh being built um in my opinion um it's too big that's my comment anybody else on the board have any statements make I guess I want to concur um I mean I get that there's a way around it if you close a permit and do it I guess if that's the way to do it then do it but I don't think for the board it makes any sense because you're already at the max of what's allowed and now you're asking for another th square feet can I make a statement sir um so yes uh it you're right I mean I'm not denying any of it the the disadvantage of closing the permits and then doing it would also mean um like the whole crew and people who are working right now will have to come back and that will also be like meaning that my family the kids again we are already in um like you know moving moved out of our space and living in a rental space with like some sort of problems with the kids and stuff like that from a schooling perspective so the right now the advantage to do this get this variance approval is to make sure that you know while the people are there the the people Constructors um the people who are already working in the house can take advantage of the situation and then build the house basically and I I agree with you that it is 1,000 square ft more but if I had a basement then I wouldn't have requested for all these things it's not I'm not changing the exterior of the house or I'm not doing anything extraordinary with the house it's already An approved house uh it's just space for the like like literally replacing the basement if you see that basically so like that's the only request that I have Mr chairman I don't generally comment on and try to sway the board either way but what the board does not know is that there are many many many applications that have gone for permitted um that the builders have been kind of taken advantage of that section of the ordinance so those cases don't do not come to this board because they just they're allowed to do that what this applicant is doing is actually coming before the board Bo to ask permission instead of going through that motion thank you so it's like a technicality and through permitting it would happen anyway okay which is I I think so interesting that when cases become for you for variances that you you know well which we agreed to tonight but that that's a great place to close the loophole right so uh um I'm we are doing actually the right thing by requesting you guys to hopefully like you know bring it to your attention and like you know everything is like not trying to take advantage of any loopholes basically to be honest basically that's that's the request does anybody else have any statements to make Mr chairman please um Mr s just so you understand I said this at a prior hearing or a prior matter that was before us there are six members of the board eligible to vote today here you need five yes votes on both the HFA and the HF if you get less than five yes votes it's a denial and as the chairman was explaining previously if it's denied there a whole different Dynamic about coming back so you need to make a decision as to whether or not you want to proceed in that manner or wait until there's 7 full board members I don't know we started the commenting uh part of it if you wanted to continue or do we roll right into a motion we can continue sir we can I'm okay so this will affirm you want to proceed with six members knowing the consequences of that all right thank you okay would someone like to make a motion one way or the other okay I'll make a motion to accept this application I'll second Mr Bear yes Mr Kenya yes Mr sha yes yes Miss marage yes Miss Yan no Mr Sherman yes motion carries thank you thank you meeting is adjourned for