caise with power all right we're on the air good evening everyone this is the planning board um meeting reorganizational meeting and hearing for January 23rd 2024 call to order and statement of compliance adequate notice of this meeting and hearing has been provided by posting a copy of the public meeting hearing dates on the municipal bulletin board and website by sending a copy to the echo Sentinel newspaper and by filing a copy with the municipal clerk standard board procedures any meeting or hearing conducted by the board is a quasi judicial proceeding any questions or comments must be limited to issues that are relevant to what the board May legally consider in reaching a decision and to corm appropriate to a Judicial meeting or hearing must be maintained at all times meeting cut off announcement is made that as a matter of procedure it is the intention of the planning board sorry sorry intention of the planning board not to continue any matter past 10:30 p.m. at any regular special meeting or hearing of the board unless a motion is passed by the members then present to extend the meeting or hearing to a later specified cutof time electronic devices all in attendance are asked to mute cell phones or any electronic devices as to not interrupt the proceedings Pledge of Allegiance Pledge aliance to the flag of the United States of America to the repic for it stands one nation under God indivisible liberty and justice for all okay next on the agenda is our Oaths of of office for our new appointees and reappoints we have uh Deputy Mayor Scott lavender as class one expiring December 31st 2024 Teresa Dill class two expiring December 31st 2024 Brendan Ray class three expiring December 31st 2024 and new member Tony palala class 4 expiring December 31st 2027 welcome to board attorney so uh Mr board attorney would you please admin the be my privilege uh if mayor mayor lavender Teresa Dill Brendon councilman Ray and I'll Stand raise your right hand please and repeat after me I state your name I youly swear that I will support the Constitution I will support the Constitution of the United States of the United States and the state of New Jersey and the state of New Jersey and that I will bear that I will bear true faith and allegiance to S true faith and Al the same and to the governments and to the governments established in the United States established in the United States and in this state and in the state under the authority of the people under the authority of the people and that I will faithfully and that I will faithfully impartially and justly impartially and and justly perform all the duties per all the duties of planning board member a planning board member according to the best of my ability Accord best of my ability that I will not use my office and that I will not use myice my office to Grant preferential treatment to gr preferential treatment nor to seek personal gain nor seek personal gain favor or Advantage favor or Advantage not available to the general public not available to the general public so help me God so help me God congratulations welcome and welcome back there you go okay now the roll call is in order Deputy Mayor lavender present committee mon Ray present Miss D present Mr H here Mr Jones present Mr melanowski here Mr opela present Mr Richardson here Mr Sandow present we have a quorum on to further business we will now hear from the nominating committee for 20124 which is Mr Hans and Deputy Mayor lavender with uh start with of our chairman for the term expiring January 14th 2025 thank you um I don't know if we haven't spoken in the last couple of weeks but I think um I understand we have one uh nomination for chair for 2024 um I think it's Don Richardson so I'm not sure if anybody wants any comment for or against that recommendation first we would have the nomination then a second uh and no other nominations a roll call vote so I'll second okay so the nomination is from n that be himself and second by second yeah all right with no other other nominations on the floor okay uh Mr H yes committee mon Ray yes Deputy Mayor lavender yes Miss D yes Mr Jones yes Mr melanowski yes Mr Richardson yes Mr Sandow yes motion carries thank you and [Applause] congratulations should we continue with the vice chair is it now over to the chair actually the chair can uh ask call for nominations for vice chair and and the chair gets the G good uh do I hear any nominations for vice chairman I'd like to nominate Tom Jones for vice chair I'll second that any other any other motions on the floor no mayor lavender I'm sorry Deputy Mayor lavender yes and our second was Mr H right Mr Hans yes committee monray yes m d yes Mr Jones I accept Mr melanowski yes Mr alala yes I'm didn't call you before did I no I apologize it's okay would you have said yes I would have I didn't update my sheet completely yet so okay so the chair the the chair election was 90 correct okay just for the record 90 I think we're at seven so far on the uh on the vice chair right Mr sand yes and chairman Richardson yes motion carries welcome thank you and just if if I Mo might for the last Act of the nominating committee can I just say thanks to Dennis for the work he's done over the last year or two and his leading chair Ro for the planning board so just want to appreciate his work he's done and and and Don for vice chair and helping us through the master plan last year as well so this is your reward you know chairman of the board sence yeah yeah thank you thank you okay I guess next on the agenda are several appointments uh given the fact that we've got a PO agenda I'm wondering Mr Warner if we could uh just do not do a roll call but just uh get a a motion for the adoption of these you know what we could do uh if it helps uh that we can uh for all of the appointments andless someone feels the need to pull one it a resolution out you can have a roll call vote on all the resolutions uh together uh to cover all five uh with respect to all the appointments that assumes that the board has had a chance to review what appoint so with that is there a motion accept appointments so moved second comman rang yes Vice chairman Jones yes Deputy Mayor lavender yes Miss D yes Mr Hans yes Mr melanowski yes Mr opala yes chairman Richardson yes Mr Sandow yes to all except the attorney the vote there is no okay noted thank you thank you all as a board for the conf continued confidence and it's my privilege to continue to represent thank you as well thank you very much a blanket yes okay moving right along to item number 11 adoption of the meeting schedule which is attached is there any comments first on the meeting schule and correct me if I'm wrong um St that these these 11 through 15 can be done by an all in favor uh well there are resolutions but they can be done similar to uh the way we did the appointments oh okay no one feels compelled to remove any one item you can vote for all uh for one roll call vote stand this stuff so we're making a motion for items 11 through uh 15 correct all those resolutions meeting schedule notice publication applications meeting cut off and Robert's Rules of Order uh all in one motion second and we so so moved second okay committee man ray yes Vice chairman Jones yes Deputy Mayor lavender yes Miss D yes Mr Hans yes Mr M Mr malanowski yes Mr El palala yes Mr Sandow yes and chairman Richardson yes motion carries great thank you for efficiently getting through those uh we are now up to item 16 and application for minor site plan approval this is for Block 1097 L one zone r433 Norwood Drive application number 3-1 p and Mr Michael is the app Mr chairman if if I may and I apologize that it's out of order but there was originally considered one other matter for this evening uh and uh I think it's appropriate if we announce just to make sure no one's here for it uh and that is a matter that the determination was made uh that jurisdiction actually lies with the zoning Board of adjustment not with the planning board uh so it's been moved I think uh Deborah if you have that uh with the chair's permission if you have the uh name and property address we could just notify the public uh that matter is is going to be handled by another board at another date that we anticipate and yes the matter is a subdivision for 651 White Bridge Road uh the applicants are sentore andak state of w w I'm probably not saying correct apolog so if anybody's here on that matter that matter has been moved um to March first and foremost it will be Ren noticed yes uh so we are not technically carrying it it's moved to the Zoning Board of adjustment the applicant is obligated to Ren notice uh for that board for a different date we anticipate it to be March 19th 19th at the zoning board but again members of the public will get notice by way of publication and Property Owners notice I just wanted to thank you Mr chairman make sure no one was here for that one uh we didn't keep them waiting for something that wasn't going to occur this evening thank you okay with that said is the applicant prepared to come forward please you're welcome to set up Michael make sure just make sure to talk into the mic uh that come sounds okay right per yep and as as applicants preparing with your permission Mr chairman we did have an opportunity to review the no as found the content to be sufficient not it to be timely served and published uh so more importantly the board does have jurisdiction here and decide the case uh this evening and at the appropriate time I'll swear in all the witnesses including our board professional singular uh our planner deed and are you do you have legal representation or you representing yourself uh I'll be representing myself tonight do you have any other Witnesses um I have a couple of neighbors that came in uh to uh support uh the application okay that that'll come then with your permission Mr chairman I'll swear in the applicant and and our board planner if you'll both raise your right hand do both of you swear to God or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do I do thank you both back to you Mr chairman good thank you would you like to present a summary of your application please uh sure uh what I did uh there was some questions that were sent to me before and I prepared uh some paperwork I didn't print up enough copies but uh just so I know with your permission Mr chairman this will call exhibit A1 uh is it how many pages approximately or exactly if you know pages each are there several exhibits no no no no um or are they all the same thing they're all the same thing okay it's a A1 is a compendium of approximately seven pages and uh what would we call it applicant exhibits sure uh yeah there were some questions raised I wanted to ask uh answer them in advance so you could see U what my thought processes and there was also questions of uh floor plans I want to demonstrate the the math involved there and um also there's a question about my credentials and so I wanted to give some uh some copies of what my credentials are so you can see them for yourselves we can with the chair's Comm we can just you know follow May one and as we go Page by page as the witness wishes to direct attention he can do so so so that's fine we'll take a few and Deborah will have to have one as well the official copy I can take one after the fact there's not so the board members can get there's nine if you have nine not there may need to so I guess okay thank you uh I guess as an introduction to myself uh my name's uh Mike portera um recent Resident uh just recently moved into Gillette um really very happy with the town it's been really nice we've met several neighbors and made friends within the area and um one of the things that we had wanted to do uh my wife uh and my son jack and then they're kind of walking around a little bit um is uh I'm an acupuncturist by trade uh specifically I work with uh pain management and Orthopedic complaints um and I work a full-time job in Wayne um but when I'm done with my shift uh my full-time job I was hoping to be able to treat some patients uh out of out of the our home um nothing too extensive just a couple patients here and there and be able to uh still keep an eye on my son jack um as you know not have to be in a different location and still keep it be be present for what his needs are as he's growing older um so that's the introduction uh to what my concept is it would be a uh one room practice I really wouldn't be able to see more than one person at a time nor what I want to um I think in a overall concept of what I like to see right now I would probably see one to three people a week currently and uh have that eventually become you know things um moved moved well three three people four people a night for three four days of the week so I think uh we're talking about 12 to 15 people in my idea and at that point if I was still growing I'd want to rent a different space space and not work out of my home at that point but I do want to be present for my son as much as I can so that's the overall idea um I guess before I continue are there are any questions from that you guys completed kind of uh your summary I want to give you an opportunity at least for an introduction you know there are some questions that were posed to me before that I have some responses to but as an introduction yes okay uh I think what would be maybe appropriate just in the break is maybe we could our professional plan to some questions you have and that might be overlap of some responses that you have Mak sense okay that's fine Mr chair um so I think in my letter which was dated uh December 6 6 2023 um I provided the standards for a home office and I'd like to just go through those with you but before I do that um on the last page of my letter I question two or comment to asked you to provide some testimony on the following um and the first one was your licenses and training in acupuncture sure uh so um in in the packets I've given you you can see my um my diploma from Pacific College of health and science uh I I have a doctorate in acupuncture and Chinese medicine uh I've been practicing for close to 17 years uh currently uh um I uh and I'm board certified by the NCC a which is the national board um and uh I had mentioned working in Orthopedics and um neurological complaints and I have a specialization that I'm pursuing from that's another thing is one of my uh certified programs that I gone through for the for neuropathy and neurological complaints um yeah that's the summary of my credentials I would say that way I'm sorry could you the second question I had was length of time did you just say yeah 16 almost 17 years okay and I'm sorry drug but just for the record so page four is of exhibit A1 is your diploma uh page four is my diploma any other pages of this exhibit A1 that relate to uh your licenses and training so um page four would be my is my diploma page five is uh my my state license um page six is my national board certification and then page seven is my certification in uh neurom Meridian acupuncture style I apologize for the interruption both the chair and our planner but just wanted to make sure we were following along with the documents okay the next question was the current location of practice so I think you indicated you have a practice in Wayne Uh I uh I'm employed by uh a multi-discipline practice in Wayne which is full-time and I do see some inpatient independent patients in WatchON okay okay and and is that like a um just a you rent a space and watch exactly okay um would be helpful if you face the microphone at all times instead of looking at the board members when you're speaking we we'll make sure everyone can hear thank you for notifying us of that yeah you really have it's a directional mic I think you have to kind of get right up into it and speak loudly and and a little slower perhaps okay to my apologies you might want go back to that prior response okay recall the question sure the the current location of your practice uh yes so I'm I'm currently employed full-time in Wayne New Jersey and I rent some space from uh a naturopath in WatchON okay and and just this isn't on my letter but the question I guess I'm asked with that next to ask is what you um are proposing here would you then leave that practice in Wayne or would you uh no I can continue to I plan to be continue to be full full-time employed in uh the the multi-is practice in Wayne okay um so the next question was the prop proposed hours and days of operation yeah I that is that response I put on to uh page two of uh the handout here um my thought roughly would be Wednesday Thursday Friday 5: to 8 I would have availability and then Saturday by appointment okay and what um hours of the day typically would you see patients um pardon me I may understand it those same hours the Wednesday Thursday Friday oh but do you see people in the morning I think you said night before so oh I so um where I'm employed full-time in Wayne it's morning afternoon evening uh my intention for the home office would probably be that's that handful of people in the evening most likely you know know if I happen to see a person in the morning it's a maybe but it's not my plan currently so was evening sort of after 5 or evenings after 5 okay and then do you know till till what time again I would think between the hours of five and 8 o'clock five and eight and forgive me how long is a typical oh so you know that's it's U it depends on who you ask uh when I with how I practice I typically see uh a person for about 45 minutes okay um okay so the next question uh was the typical number of patient visits per day which I think you you testify to yeah um you know three or four would be on the one on the upper side okay um the next is the number of employees on site uh myself okay yeah that's something I also answered on the paperwork um if I were to have an employee it would probably be a receptionist that would work remote I don't expect to have any I I can't imagine having an on-site employee okay um and then where if patients uh when when they would come to your home where would they Park uh yes so um my the way I would see that working is there are three parking spots in front of my garage and they would you you know use those those spaces so you have um do you have a one car or a two-car garage we uh it's a two-car garage uh with three spaces in front of it okay okay okay so that's um I'm just want to move to the uh section of the ordinance that deals with home offices so the first one uh the first standard is that not more than 25% of the floor area of one story of the dwelling is devoted to such use and so I had some questions in the application materials because it seemed like the um the floor plan see maybe it came from like a real estate add exact it it didn't seem to correspond to your what you had measured yeah when I had submitted that I had thought that just visually looking at the space would be sufficient because to to my eyes I'm like this is considerably under 25% um but then when I saw your question I I I said yeah no I need to measure out more more accurately um which again that's actually the first part off page one of the handout um total square feet of uh the first floor is 1,280 sare ft and the uh the proposed office is 177 square feet um so the math of that works out to be about just under 14% of the first floor okay so can I can you go through how you got to the 177 I don't apologize I don't have the handout so yeah can you it's fine but can you just explain it yeah so I just used uh a tape measure and just did length and width and inches uh and then made a table of each of the rooms okay and is the living room is that what you're counting as the 170 there's a room marked bedroom on on the print out that would be that room and so that's the the office yes okay and so then I know that there's a foyer between obviously the outside and so would that be used by your you know your family as well during that time it wouldn't be just devoted to yes exactly okay um okay so the next question is not more than one person not resident in the dwelling so this isn't worded very well but essentially um you potentially will have one person employed remotely who doesn't actually live in the house potentially receptionist okay um the next standard is no show window display of merchandise or product or other demonstration of such use other than a sign as permitted um and so I guess the first question would you have any display of goods or services or any any sort no that's not something I would that's not something I would want to do okay and then per the ordinance you could have a single ground sign that would be 4 feet by 4 feet do you have any uh intentions of doing that uh I think if it was uh okay with the town that that would be nice um if it wasn't approved then that would be okay but I given the option that would be nice okay um and then the next one is off street parking is provided in accordance with this ordinance for both the home office and the single family residential use um so you're going to ask what the standard is so um for I think for the home which is the it's the rsis which is the state uh regulations for residences and my understand how many bedrooms are in your home um well you know so it's either a four-bedroom home or a three-bedroom home with this office depending on how you look at it okay so um for a four-bedroom home let's just be conservative for a four-bedroom home you'd have to provide two and a half spaces and then for the 177 square feet you would have to provide per our ordinance let's say we categorized you as a professional office um that'd be one per 250 sare ft so you would need to provide one parking space for your 177 foot office so alog together you would need to provide three and a half parking spaces you're saying you have three in the driveway cor yes I agree three and then the two your two garage spaces count actually as two parking spaces per rsis anyway so you should be fine great okay okay Mr chairman I apolog but before we leave the the the parking are we certain that we have three parking spaces uh three proper spaces in front of the garage right for purposes of rsis calculation right um and I I don't know I don't have the hand are there any photographs or anything of the um I don't have any photographs of that um I mean we I we regularly Park three cars in front of it we have a question from a board member Mr s do you actually use the garage to park your cars um currently no but if this was part of this process then we would make it that the garage was for car so the fact that grass is growing in front of the garage doors and the glass is broken in the garage doors so it can't he keep heat does in fact confirm conf irm the fact that you park your cars in front of the garage is that correct I would agree with that now how long is the driveway between what passes for a street and the front of the garage uh I would wager between 10 and 12 feet but I I have just long enough for one car in front of the garage door yes and the street itself is a street that's uh improved to town standards um I'm not sure what that means that means curbed paved drained uh it is currently a gravel road uh it I if yeah not paved and how wide would you estimate that that gravel right of way is between eight and 10 feet as a guess so that if a car were to park on that gravel Street if they could get in through the snow the street would not be wide enough for another car to pass them um I would disagree with that actually I've several times I've seen um two cars a car parked in fact I actually had a um a contractor come by to give us an estimate where he he parked behind my cars and uh the Water Company drove right past him without a problem is that street maintained during the winter um well I had you know the town hasn't been plowing it uh I called once to have it plowed um and they did but I didn't want to keep I don't want to be that person where I was always calling asking the town to plow it if I could drive on it myself so we cannot be sure what is that the name of that is that King Street that's King so if we if King Street is not regularly plowed and it is a gravel Street 8 to 10 feet wide we can't rely on that for Patron parking they would have to park on Norwood well I guess under that premise um I would be more diligent about calling the town and asking them to plow the road can we just return back to establishing how many parking spaces there are in front of the garage because I I think from what I heard there's three right and you need three and a half you you do but the in the garage itself counts as if it's a two-car garage but that would be a total of five but but but hold on but what Steve was pointing out is per rsis those spaces in the um in the driveway have to be um 20 feet wide for a length of 18 feet and if I mayair this is your as our board planner is it is is it your understanding that for RSI purposes with respect to the garage spaces which we have testimony that they are sufficient in length and distance uh regardless of their current usage they still constitute parking spaces there's nothing in the rsis it doesn't differentiate I mean meaning you could say there are probably people who get approval saying they have two um garage spaces in a garage and they never use those garages for their cars RSI do you know one way the other WEA or not it would count or not count as two spaces ifes it doesn't distinguish doesn't disting so that is okay um so even assume so assuming arguendo two two spaces in the garage we still need to establish where at least uh according to your calculation there is 1.5 spaces remaining um or really two spaces I don't think there's such a thing as one yes yes I do if I could just ask another question Mr chair the because I don't and I don't know the answer and I don't know if you know the answer I don't know if the applicant has an expert apparently not they answer but if our planner knows if the fourth bedroom is what is what's being used as the office do we count it as a four bedroom or do we count it as a three bedroom and I do want to get clarification from the applican are you saying that the fourth bedroom is what you are proposing to use as the office or acupuncture room or what have you correct okay do you want do you know one way or the other uh so if you count it as a four bedroom or a three bedroom under that circumstance then the half space goes away for a three bedroom home per rsis of a single is it first a three-bedroom home under that circumstance how do you view it under the ordinance I mean I would say that yes it is if if if if the fourth bedroom is being devoted to an office use right I I'm I'm there's an interpretation here there is an interpretation I mean that's perhaps how I would view it but it's really up but it's really up to the board okay because I mean the rsis doesn't have this specific circum St an so if I understand correctly it may either be a 3.5 space requirement or a three space requ exactly okay and if everybody understands the impact there uh and and also we're trying to decide how many spaces are actually available to meet either the three or 3.5 space requirement for intensive purposes are three or are four but you know if the conservative would be 3.5 understood yeah um thank you Mr sh I just want to try to get as much as we can to help the board Liz are there any other particular issues no not at this time so before we open it up for public questions on the testimony you've heard i' just like to hear from any questions from the boards so how do we you said three or four people maybe a night sure yes how how do you is there any way to not necessar control or limit but if it gets more than that is that a factor we have to concern ourselves with at this point well um I'm going to sort of Punt to Steve can you limit it in the resolution to how many patients could be seen per day or per night first of all the applican could stipulate the same uh second of all uh a Nexus a reasonable relationship as a condition to uh the relief sought and the standards for saying including parking as one of them so in my legal opinion uh even if the applicant didn't stipulate to such a condition uh it would be reasonable I'd have to hear the number I guess to to decide how comfortable I am with how reasonable it is uh but it would be reasonable to impose such a condition if that helps yeah uh if we're concerned about parking uh the nature of how I see one person every 45 minutes or so um you know at most it would by math it would be two cars if there was an overlap of one person waiting one person on the table um that's that would be the busiest it would be for for a small overlap period so it wouldn't be a large collection of cars at any point happening I guess my concern if is that what of did employ two people yourself and somebody else so we one person employed and then that means potentially you can see more people and then parking becomes even a bigger issue so I actually I do have a response to that um f first of all that not at all my intention I don't want to have another employee uh I don't really want to have another employee in the house period um and then second of all I don't want that kind of tra patient traffic in my house either um I'm just yeah that's you know to to for me to have an uh just theoretically to have another employee there that was also treating I would need a second treatment room and I don't want to dedicate that kind of space to Patient Care um the math just wouldn't work I if I wanted to have an employee I would rent um space somewhere you know in town that was a a more official office that had three four rooms at a time would you stipulate as a condition of approval should this board so desire word Sho you can't hear me it's on though right you can hear me better now okay got to really lean in on these they the um would you stipulate as a condition of approval should the board in the event the board grants you uh uh the request and uh desires the condition uh uh to having no employees on site other than yourself I'd be comfortable with that can I can I ask any questions yes please and I have several it it's with regard to the nature of how you conduct your business um I'm a son of a chiropractor who had a home office like this and when I hear of what you're doing I think of chiropractors I think of hairdressers right um other people who have singular patients that come in and leave and etc etc what's your minimum appointment time how fast do you work at the fastest so minimum appointment time would be in the neighborhood of 30 minutes but that's not my preference and what's your maximum appointment time maximum appointment time um hour 15 um but I'm G to say most typically I'm between 45 minutes and an hour um I usually and I would probably schedule on the hour to have some break in between for myself and do you schedule little downtime between each appointments exactly yes and so what kind of equipment do you have on site um massage table um acupuncture needles um and Sharps Containers to get rid of them but really it's very very low um probably sterilization supplies well you know uh there's no reusing of needles so I don't they're single they're pre- sterilized yes they're pre- sterilized okay but you clean up you probably wipe down the massage table absolutely sure of course right and so you're not you don't have a waiting room per se not really yeah right and so you have to schedule a gap between patients yeah I would agree with that okay just you know not only just logistically it's also just it's good to be able to clear my head and have some time in between and and do you do your billing there do people pay you there are they paying you ahead of time credit card how does that work uh Mo I'd say the large predominance of people are Insurance patients um so I do my own billing um but you know some people are cash uh and that's or credit cards everyone will take cash but um yeah you know uh whether it's a credit card or uh insurance I can do that myself and when people make appointments do you stipulate when to arrive or would you stipulate when to arrive I mean if I scheduled an appointment for somebody at six o'clock uh I don't think I would say arrive you know I might give them some guidance but I would you know I would kind of count on Common Sense don't come at five if you're point at six and and where you're working right now do appointments often go longer than you think they would so that you you might have it someone else stacked up outside waiting um I think time management is very important so if there's an if there is an over um an overflow that way it's not for much time I I think it's um because you're taking away time from the next person and I don't think that's appropriate and you said you'd be looking at Monday Wednesday Friday is is that what you said um more likely Wednesday Thursday Friday but Wednesday Thursday Friday and then from 5: to 8: yeah so that's three hours and then I I would you know potentially some Saturday buy appointment but not having regular set hours that way so so during any given weekday probably three people Max maybe a fourth but yeah that's I would agree and then Saturdays what time uh By Appointment I wouldn't want to spend too much on my Saturday uh you know I'd rather be with my family but you know again maybe another three right so that's 12 people per week at Max that's kind of my my picture also and realistically what's your track record in terms of booking appointments are you fully booked or do you find yourself running 75% uh right now I'm seeing very few people in my independent practice uh few very very few okay uh so uh previous to covid um I was I was much I was just independent didn't practice uh and then when Co hit everything got shut down uh and so I went to full-time employment with the chiropractor Physical Therapy acupuncture practice um and it's been it's been quite nice I I like the group of people that I work with um but since then um it's just been a smattering of people that have followed me since pre-co okay so just be very clear what we're looking at is is is a capacity of up to three people a day four times a week that doesn't necessarily mean there's going to be three people a day four times a week going through there if it's running half that capacity it's going to be one person some days two another maybe if you're lucky three you're looking to supplement your income you're looking to stay at home with your son that's an accurate description yes right thank you but I think the the issue that comes to mind is are you looking to go back to being fully independent as you were prior to co currently no uh again I I enjoy my the the group practice that I'm working with um you know if it and I kind of described it a little bit before that if it came to a place where I was consistently seeing that 12 people as we're talking about even if it was 15 like 15 is the absolute upper limit of what I would picture um if it got there and I was consistently there and I wanted to add more hours I would use a different space I wouldn't want to do it out of my home any other questions from the board yeah Liz in the residential zoning is there a time limit that they can have uh people as if they're working out of a home office is the ordinance is silent on that it's very quiet on a lot of things to be honest in the commercial zone is there something that like when just because it's part of the stipulation making sure that putting an upper boundary that is no later than the commercial time zone should be a stipulation that he can't do Residential home office past or commercial mhm let me double check it is in the code okay um okay I'll double check thank you any other questions just uh are all the patients walk in walk out you don't have anybody with wheelchairs or that's that's a good question um any so um I don't have a ramp I have stairs uh so if a person wanted to work with me and they were wheelchair bound and or just incapable of walking up the three four stairs uh I would then offer a home visit to their home I wouldn't yeah so you do house calls not frequently but in that situation I would sorry sorry I have a question you we were talking about parking and we were talking about snow clearing in your neighborhood and you said that uh a couple instances snow plows had not come through and it required you to make a phone call but you also made a comment about if you had more clients coming and the snow was not cleared you would be you would make more phone calls to get the road clear so that way you could have your clientel come in for the safety of the people yeah I get that um but it's also accommodating your at home business and you're at a a uh residentially zoned area keeping in mind you do have a business up the street and you also have a faith house up the street is that right if I if I got my orientation on Norwood right um yes that would yeah right you got the liquor store on one side you Gott on the other okay so um it seems like you're going to be M needing or requiring you know dpw's out there doing doing a really good job out there clearing the streets but you're going to be looking for a special case if it seems like your Street's not clear for when you need your clientele to come through the door well my response to that is um more than anything else else I would think that I think that DPW doesn't know that it's a street I think that they're ignoring the street because they think it's my driveway and I just didn't want to keep calling the town and reminding them because you know that's that was my that was my thought um but I mean it is part of the Town streets so I would think that would be something that they should be doing anyway okay okay thank you chairman before we go to I uh with your permission I was wondering based upon the questions that were asked by board members there might be additional potential stipulations that I could seek from the applicant doesn't oblig the board to do anything um but it's an if it's a stipulated to Condition it's there for the taking so to speak in the event the board wishes to Grant an approval or consider the condition as potentially mitigating detriments so with that I think was disc discuss of an interval or a gap between patients is there something that the applicant is willing to stipulate to that would be a required gap between in scheduling between patients shouldn't we hear public comments first yeah we could we could come back okay I I'll I'll I'll hold the potential we can go to public I'd like to hear public or public questions yeah questions exactly so with that if you could come up to the podium it's just questions on the testimony questions specifically to the testimony that you've heard please I'm sorry we'll just need we'll need a name and address you might have to pick up that mic I'm sorry you could take you could take it right out of is it on I don't even see the green light on it's a new year come on is the light we appreciate the fact that you can speak up but those folks who are watching it on TV can't hear you CU you can't shout all the way to Millington while Deb's doing that in what regulation in what ways were you thinking we're looking at an improvement bus while I apprciate the idea of The Bu if there is no regulation what what tracks expansion what tracks changing the type of business and I think I just heard you don't actually regulate that right so there's been several attempts in this community to have home office business or businesses approved and they've they've previously been denied we have a quiet community my question was really do you have any way of regulating like you're having a onetime yes no this is for chiropractor right but ultimately what's to change that from becoming a massage business or some other um practice that is outside of the ideals once it's Zone commercial everybody in in the neighborhood is affected by that so I I think I got my answer no there there's no regulation yes no's permission I might be able to help somewhat Liz maybe as well and certainly very important question uh and to the extent there's a point to be extrapolated from that question very important points uh but uh just to be clear in the event there were a home office approval as I understand didn't please weigh in Liz um it would have to be first and foremost a home office there are only certain types of businesses quote unquote that can be constitute a home office it would be regulated not only by the ordinance standards but also any conditions that the board imposes uh or the applicant stipulates to uh and there is compliance uh uh with resolution conditions and some monitoring it's it's done by by the township uh as best as the township can and uh and uh if there is an expansion a change oh by the way of course certainly the profession itself would be regulated as any other profession would Visa the licenses and whatever regulations there are outside of Zoning for the Min for the township uh so there uh there is some monitoring compliance regulation Etc um that said nothing's foolproof I guess um and certainly part of the process and any land use approval compliance is is frankly among other things the public um if something is happening often times municipalities find out by being notified by someone the second part to that I'm less concerned you know on the existing owner the existing business but when they move it's already zoned that way so whoever comes in can change it to a different business would be a change in zoning and again but this is not a rezoning this would be allowing a particular use very partic with certain regulations but yeah the ordinance currently permits home offices as an accessory use in all residential zones so it's not a rezoning it already exists as long as they can meet those standards that we went through um and they have to get site plan approval from this board so ultimately if he sells for someone to do the same thing they'd have to go through the same process that's a question yeah I think so uh you you regulate a you you Zone a use but the zone is already there uh if the home office is permitted it can be tailored appropriately including with respect uh to a requirement that if there is a change in the uh owner occupant uh that the very least there could be a revisiting by the board uh as a condition I believe such a condition would be reasonable and not violative of of could we also include um could we also include a condition that says if the home is sold that that um um that agreement that we're talking about today is then null and void it doesn't follow the sale when you say agreement I don't know what you mean by well approve the resolution sorry the the um as a condition it at a minimum because I'm one of the things in zoning is you cannot zone or or by user only by use uh uh and uh so you can't pick who whose story gets to be in a commercial you know zone for a property and premises for so at a minimum uh it there can be a requirement to revisit uh with the board uh by way of uh the same standards applicable and and the need for a site plan uh so that the board would retain jurisdiction that can be done um candidly I don't know that we can say uh uh the approval is good only for you and it's not good for anybody else so to speak I I I think where I struggle is like you have the electrician who has his van parked in his driveway and he uses that as his home office but then when he goes to work he leaves his driveway and he goes off about his business end of the day come back goes into his home into his home does his billing calls his customers does everything inside no Marquee outside outside of the van that's parked in the driveway he has clientele coming to his house and there'll be come they'll be parking either in his driveway and realistically in the street they could be parking in the street not knowing I so I struggle I'm sorry to interrupt I do want to just make sure we stay on track with some of the public fair enough okay then I'll park my comment my last one was on on that concept as someone who has spent several years plowing that for prior owner that that street the end of King there it is not maintained by by the town um I think for for safety reasons for you know the co-joined lot that that that also is there the excessive traffic I think the town should and would have to pave that area for it to be maintained and we'll have an opportunity after we get through questions on TES for more General comments do you have any specific questions for this is the is the town willing to pave that road the way that it should be it's a gravel road currently and it is not maintained what okay app all right than I may sure also beond the scope and fairness of the planning board planning board doesn't have that Authority only the the governing body on behalf of the municipality would but thank you for your questions anyone else question questions on the testimony and then there'll be an opportunity for more general public comment before during the public comment period the differen is I'll swear in and then you can make your comment it counts as testimony just like the applicant was sworn in yes after the questions probably yes good evening Richard michas 127 Riverview Avenue um I I cringe at the the reference to this being a road coming from the paved Road of Norwood Drive going onto this large gray graveled driveway or access road what would you consider the dip coming off that main roadway excuse me that again I think is starting to go beyond the testimony in regards to well I'm trying to make a point here that the people aren't going to to be driving on this road this road for many years I've only considered it as an access road sir before before you testify if I may Mr chairman may I address the concern with the question it might be a relevant uh question to the extent the gentleman can the applicant can answer it for purposes of of this heing I'll I'll give a little bit of space here but we're not we're not really taking questions on status of roadways you know except as it well that that's quite pertinent to this whole operation here whether that roadway is conducive to his parking Offroad the chairman said you could ask the question and he could answer the question if he can I you want to repeat the question I mean I I what what is the dip I'm I don't know how to answer that I do you have an estimate from the height of Norwood road to the flat part of the driveway or access road that you are putting forth as your off-road parking the access to your off-road parking I I'm I'm sorry I'm not trying to be thick or anything like that I don't understand what you're asking me so you're saying when rephrase the question or provide additional clarification what is the height from Norwood to the access road you're referring to as your uh Offroad parking to where the cars are um I don't know um five six feet is Forwood and that access road level are they level together no no there's a there's a decline okay that was my question what do you consider the height of the decline to that roadway I mean five six feet is it can't it can't even be that much I'm going to say do you share that access with anything else the water company water company what in what way do you share that they use it all the time Drive in what way they drive their trucks on it for what I I don't know I'm not part of the water company you haven't noticed a pumping station behind your house I've noticed they go there I don't know what it is I see so you do share that with the water company um I share that with everyone in the town you're welcome to drive on it yourself and you testified that it's 8 to 12 foot wide correct these are estimates I never measured it okay and it's pure large graveled Road sure yes okay thank you great thank you any further questions on the testimony You' heard hello my name is Herbert Brennan I live on 128 Riverview Avenue I've been here for 46 years um and there are no signs the size of a half a sheet of plywood on anybody's lawn his setback is only about 20 I'm sorry to interrupt with the chair's permission just a reminder this is the point where you asked the questions of Mr of the applicant based on his testimony yes the point where you make your comments under oath to the board will be coming very shortly but he did mention he wants to put a 4x4 sign questions phrase it in the form of a question to the applicant please it it's required under the law but I will get a chance to speak again all right great thank you sir another yes Richard michas 127 review Avenue jillette I heard you testify before that you believe two vehicles can pass on that roadway without having a problem problem sure okay so you a American water truck and another vehicle can pass each other on that Gravel Road without the anyone going onto the grassy area uh what I saw happen was that the contractor that was coming to my house was half in the road half in um half on on the parking spots uh and they got passed um would so that first vehicle was not fully on the roadway if another vehicle had to pass correct I mean it no it's not a two-lane road so okay yeah no it's I mean it's enough for a large car to get by and I've seen people get past each other but am I allowed to ask the uh committee questions not Mr chairman not not really but uh but but uh if something that with the chair's permission if it's something that a board professional can help with I defer to the chair are you seeking clarification on yes I'm seeking clarification on the knowledge of the board having of this I will call Access Road not a roadway it seemed like Mr Sando had some knowledge of it but I'm wondering if anyone on the board actually has looked at this access way Mr chairman I can address that in a general sense with your permission the the the board members uh uh do uh Drive buys for lack of a better term and and also have knowledge just as residents as this board member Sanda uh the uh they're also they also bring their knowledge that's why uh land use courts are made up of residents of the community and courts give them Defence special Defence because the courts recognize nobody but the members of the community uh uh know the intricacies of the properties in the community and accessways etc etc uh so they have knowledge and the board members also know because uh they take courses and they're trained but uh that that that when they have relevant knowledge uh to the application personal knowledge uh they share it in the context of asking questions as as board memb Sando did a very well a very good job of doing earlier uh so the answer is generally yes they do and and and that's an important part of the process and they they share that knowledge by by questions and then uh uh they deliberate also and they'll hear in their deliberations no doubt some of their knowledge okay so in that answer I can assume the board has personally seen this access road that correct well again is that what you're saying it's really not appropriate to ask the board as the judges and jurors of this application under the standards uh by which this applicant has to meet uh to get this relief but but generally uh as I explained it that's what occurs uh they they're not only unpaid volunteers but they do quite a bit of work including familiarizing themselves with all the properties and and the commun and the neighborhoods it is part of our standard protocol to visit all the applicant sites so and you have yes okay everyone here has been there I can't attest to everyone but I I believe the majority have and are certainly familiar with this area thank you very much sir sir I have not gone and seen a site okay okay I appreciate thank you any other questions afterno evening uh Miguel ciss 169 King Drive my question really is I'm new to town um I think s brought it up who monitors you know the licenses in the event of approval if they want to change from an acupuncturist maybe add Chiropractic during the same hours for example how many times is that followed up on by the town because as you mentioned they're unpaid volunteers who monitors this this is more for my knowledge thank you um how often is it monitored does it have to be does he have to submit uh follow-up you know documentation that he still certified by the board if there's complaints from any clients like who who keeps track of all of this because especially since it's like a medical you know Medical Services if there's a complaint in your license is stripped for a certain amount of time how will we know if something's being practiced under a valid license or suspended license or no longer a any license at all at that point the board of volunteers does not do compliance the township as a whole does compliance and the appropriate personnel and I believe one of them is our zoning officer who's also our board Clerk or several hats is is affirmatively acknowledging herself as one of those people um but uh and that's uh that's compliance for any approval and to ensure that the conditions of approval are maintain it's not perfect I don't no municipalities perfect no I I can agree with that um my concern is just that especially dealing with Medical Services you know if there's go forbit a patient that something happens question Yeah question back um I guess my question if there's a stipulation in the event that it is approved where they say you know once a year you have to come back and provide that you still have a valid status as an acupuncturist um because we all know that the whole parking on the street and surveillance like you're not going to know if someone's coming into my home you don't know if they're a patient or not I'm not going to sit there and someone from some you know neither is the township as you said you can't wear 20 hats and be there all the time so um my question is if there's a stipulation that's put in there especially dealing with medical issues is there any thing against there where you come every year every year and say this is I'm still have a valid license applicant if he'll stipulate or something along those I'm asking if if there is one would would he be have an objection to it you know my reaction to what you're asking is that I can appreciate where you're coming from um but to do something where uh I would endanger my license I mean it's how I feed my family so um I try and keep myself um so far away from anything that would be that would be questionable um I mean I'd lose my job i' I'd lose my home so yeah my my question isn't I know that you're not going to deliberately do something my question is are you willing to still provide documentation to the board to the town that you're still running about sure I mean that's easy enough only because people are coming to your home I mean it would be as simple as making a copy of my license every year and my board certification it's a matter of photocopying things that's very easy so sure and there's no uh I guess to the de ma'am currently my hat is secretary okay there's no minimum requirement of how many times you would do your follow-ups or checkups or any kind of compliance I think you mentioned there's no compliance though Mr chair can I um ask a question with relationship to stipulated to condition so of once a year so okay when if there's an approv there's an approval that might be a condition that the the board takes I'm just curious of how much followup is even done in the township can I can I ask a question that maybe off still surv okay Michael one second okay go please Mr all right Michael um so so in in the exhibit here I see your your license um with the state of New Jersey sure and what's the renewal period on that I was actually just going to bring that up uh it's a two-year renewal period for the state license it's a four-year renewal period for my board certification and and can the public does the public have uh access to information to validate your Li 247 yeah you can go right now and look at it so I can look you up tonight and see if you lost your license absolutely we could right now you could do it right now okay consumer it's online good that then that works for me that that works for you yeah because I'm not sure you know I come from a city so where there's departments for this and I didn't mean to anything deliberate that you would harm anyone but like I came from law enforcement I didn't harm anyone but I still got complaints right so sometimes complaints suspend your license and in that event then I wouldn't like like to know because if there's people coming and someone gets hurt then you have to get medical services involved and it canp on to more issues into into the neighborhood so um that was really my question if it's publicly accessible online then that's even better because I don't have to depend on the board or bother Miss I'm sorry so all right thank you thank you for your service are there any further questions on Tony 47 Norwood name address y j 47 Norwood uh you mentioned that you know essentially your practice is for people that have pain people um potentially even debilitating pain and that uh both of your entrances I believe you mentioned this have steps correct um and there's no access for Ada no compliance around that so um yeah the way that gets handled as I was saying before if a person needs um a wheelchair access or a ramp I I I don't have the intention of putting that in but what I would do is I would offer to do a home visit to that person's home at that point I mean is that typically a a business or of this type are you allowed to discriminate in that way yeah that no that's that's that's permitted I I it would be a problem if I didn't if I couldn't offer the access and I also refused home visits that's when the problem would happen Okay thank you and obviously railings and everything else for everyone else would be part of as yes the front steps are only two steps I don't think I need a railing for that the back steps are eight steps and I have railings there okay thank you I think that was the last hand up anybody else have a question for this applicant on their testimony okay I think what would be appropriate before we hear stipulations the summary of stipulations is to open it up for public comment now A Break um what are folks feelings a break can we push through yeah we can push through definitely I think I think the majority is saying let's push through unfortunate for those who have a smaller bladder uh we now are opening this uh hearing up for public comment again of course we'll need your name and address and I'll swear you in and then you could make your uh comments we request that you try to keep it reasonably brief thank you yes we do good evening Lars cronberg I live at 115 King Drive I've only been there 30 years if you could raise your right hand please do you swear to God or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes thank you very much please proceed thank you you might want to pick up that mic it is a directional mic you can pull it right out of there how's that is that better little bit better yeah pull pull it out yeah there you go talk right into it okay thank you as I said I'm Lars cromberg I'm 115 King drve I've been there 30 years um and there's three points I'd like to speak to and part of those points uh I think get back to board member H's first question I took that question as a theme of what's next and that's some of the things I like to touch upon and to build upon what's next that question is again been there 30 years there's some history to our neighborhood you may be aware of it in 1985 in 1985 there's the paintbrush Factory on Riverview the lawyer in Basking Ridge tried to get that changed so he could build tow houses if anyone recalls 60 people showed up to fight that and that got pushed down that was 1985 then about 15 years ago the same lawyer in Basking Ridge showed up again went after it again we organized and we stopped that the next thing that has happened to our neighborhood is you guys purchased property at the end of the street we don't know what you're going to do with the property at the end of King Drive but that's impacting our neighborhood what we see are changes occurring to our neighborhood that we have to be we have we have our duty to be aware of and to react to now I don't even know Mr Peta right I understand this as as a basic business decision I get that but getting back to the theme of your questions what's next it is a let me let me paint a picture it is a quiet single access residential deadend neighborhood that is the number one reason why I bought my house there on the edge of town I don't even know why I taught my kids how to ride a bike because you can't go anywhere but again paint the picture quiet single access dead end residential neighborhood and I would tend to say that most of the people that bought there that's why they bought the house and to that point moving forward why they bought the house it's the Safety and Security that comes with what I just described and the market value the market value that comes with that the gentleman that spoke I think only four houses maybe five houses have turned over in the last four or five years there are so many people there's about 35 houses in our neighborhood there are so many people there that have been there for years that just reinforces getting back to why they bought the house the safety the security and the market value and now we're talking about changes and what's next we don't know getting back to the ever property what are you guys thinking about doing that all I know is we're on a quiet single access deadend street but things are being discussed changes requests are being made that impacts our view our perception of safety security and market value right I cannot emphasize that enough so getting back to a point that I tried to make right in the ver beginning we organized we fought back on the Riverview property the paintbrush Factory we can do that again for any and every request the current request and future request and we will make ourselves very well known to all of you and we will take every opportunity to make sure that people know and aware of what's going on in our neighborhood and what could happen in their neighborhood thank you thank you is it possible for me to respond to that a little bit or there not you with the chair's permission you'll have an opportunity to uh make a sum a summation uh at the after the public comment um it is fair though frankly Mr chairman that an applicant can uh uh ask questions of public comment or as long as it's a question and we're not trying to create a dialogue right exactly and and and as I said you still have the opportunity to make public comments so if if you wish to actually respond to points made it may be better suited for a your summation at the end as opposed to asking questions back and forth I think the summation makes more sense good evening once again Richard michas over 30y year resident of 127 Riverview Avenue excuse me yep we'll do Mr chairman oh I'm sorry just wanted to get the address again please raise your right hand do you swear to God or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do thank you please proceed thank you g me again Richard michas and over 30-year resident 127 Riverview Avenue as I would definitely agree with all my neighbors concern concerns I do have a few of my own as a retired law enforcement officer for 32 years my concerns focus on the parking and traffic situations I believe the uh will be inevitably uh uh will inevitably happen with Mr P tera's application is approved hence my uh direct uh questions with regard to what they're referring to as a roadway I would refer to as an access property the property in question is directly adjacent to the intersection of Norwood and King Drive this location is being utilized for our neighborhood right now as a school bus stop which would certainly be affected by any increase in traffic created by Mr for terce clients we all experience the phenomenum of Amazon shopping and the speeding trucks endangering our childrens we will now be adding more strangers to our neighborhood further risking the welfare of our children this additional traffic in attempt to find their destination will be certainly making u-turns in their in our intersections and using our driveways to turn around this creating unsafe conditions and possibly property damage my concern also is the parking conditions this application would create as I stated before I don't believe there's enough room in this access way for two vehicles side by side let alone parked on either side of that accessway New Jersey traffic laws have parking uh uh prohibit parking of vehicles 25 ft from an intersection and 50 ft from a stop sign both very conceivable issues given the resident's proximity to the intersection would we only be creating an additional burden to our police when we call upon to enforce these violations as you can see there are many concerns neighbors have of mind tonight many longtime residents several like myself over 30 years to approve this application for someone who has experienced no more than a year in our community only to enhance personal gain at our expense would be very saddening none of us here tonight want to cause any hardship what we also don't want to shoulder anyone else's burden seeing that what seems to be an abundance of empty storefronts vacant office spaces being advertised in our community as well as surrounding communities Mr portera might be better served utilizing appropriate locations for a service to approve this application would certainly be an insult to a hardworking law longtime residence of our dead end of a dead End Neighborhood respectfully thank you thank you and thank you for your service are there any further comments good evening my name is Harbert Brennan 128 Riverview Avenue 40 still 46 years and congratulations on your baby your right hand all right you swear to God Refirm the testimony you're going to give is the truth the whole truth or nothing but the truth yes thank you very much please proceed there are no other businesses in this neighborhood and it's uh it's uh um it won't be right if we allow one business to start here what would stop future businesses to get dump trucks and park them in the back of their property I mean really it's it just doesn't belong in our neighborhood uh you know my kids Rod their bikes on that street if you park a car in front of his house and one across the street a third car can't even get down the middle that's how small the streets are and my grandchildren now ride on these streets it just it' be too dangerous and it's it's just not right that's the simple simple solution thanks a lot thank you hi my name is Steve napol 112 Riverview a inette please raise your right hand you swear to God our firm testimony about to give us a truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes thank you please proceed okay uh I really have no real major issue with the idea of a home office H especially one where you're just seeing a patient or two uh I do acknowledge that there are worse some valid concerns brought up about the uh parking situation and the condition of the road or the property that you know the B teras have uh it's it's difficult to acknowledge that they're going to be able to park there easily so I I agree that that is a potential issue and maybe that needs to be addressed a little more in depth uh but the idea of having a home office and the worry about changing our neighborhood I don't think that's that major of an issue uh some of the other comments that were brought up in our neighborhood I agree with uh when an attorney tries to develop multiple housing in an area that's single family homes that is a valid concern that's a major concern but I think we're mixing a little bit of apples and oranges here uh that's a whole different ball game so I just wanted to you know make that known that it's not the same issue it's the same thing I mean we could say that why did we ever let Jehovah Witness Hall be built there those folks were parking all over the place that there had to be rules made about parking only on one side of the street they also use the liquor store parking access so the parking issues are valid but when you have one car or two that's a whole different ball game and we've been living with that Jehovah Witness parking issue for a long time uh so I just want to put put that perspective in there I don't think this is like a watershed moment where you know everything's going to fall apart because one person has a home office and is having occasional patience I don't think that's the same thing uh I do agree that in general the neighborhood is very quiet there's very little traffic Amazon has indeed changed that I will agree there um there is a little concern about the uh the school bus there's a pickup stop there but as we heard the hours would be 5 to 8 Wednesday Thursday Friday and so the school's not in session at that time so you know folks are throwing things out that are valid but not valid okay so I just wanted to make that point uh and I don't think we need to uh just shut down any options there are a lot of people that work from home already and they don't have a declared office that required approval this is a little more detailed because a person has to come and visit but it's not that big of a you know it's not like you're having group meetings at your home so I just wanted to make that point Mr chairman can I ask Michael a question and you can stay up here um Michael um how many people in your family at home living um it's myself my wife and my son Jack and he's what newborn yeah uh seven months old and does your wife work or does she stay home and take care of the kid she also works and what yeah sorry and uh what 's the what time of the day does she work um she's a teacher so school hours okay and you have two cars uh yes okay do you have family in the area uh actually yes my father-in-law is is in watchong he's about five minutes away okay how many relatives you have they ever showed up for Thanksgiving dinner at your house um I you know uh I think when we when we really had the house packed for the holidays I think we had between 12 people make give or take and where did they Park um predominantly uh I think we had four or five cars all kind of up around uh the garage did anybody complain no uh no okay so what we're talking about here is perhaps one or two other cars in addition to your two cars sure at most I yes I would agree okay and we're talking three people per day max sequentially sequentially so the hours of five through eight that's three hours yeah three people one per hour potentially if there were stipulations like that yeah May three people on Saturday so this isn't really much different than like a brother-in-law coming over to visit yeah that's except he's just getting needle stuck in him that's kind of my logic as well okay I mean I think I'm kind of drawing out some of the points you were trying to make correct exactly okay thank you okay that's it Hi Li M 127 Riverview AB julette with me one second you swear to God or affirm the testimony you're about to give us the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do thank you very much please proceed I just had a couple of comments I just I'm concerned about the kids in the neighborhood I think we have about 16 grammar school age kids always outside I know it's 5 to eight summer's coming those kids are out all day I just worry about people that are not familiar with the area up and down the street like it's been mentioned before they have to turn around someplace there's only one way in and out I worry about those kids especially on Riverview to uh Norwood it's a blind turn that's um one of my major concerns parking on Thanksgiving is a little bit different than other times we all tolerate that people have birthday parties people have holidays we get get it but to have it a regular thing it could really become a nuisance so I just wanted to bring that up the kids really make me nervous you as my husband every time I'm coming home I'm so nervous who's going to be around the corner um but I just I get it nobody wants to you know tell you that we don't want this but it's our neighborhood too and we generally have concerns and I just concern that maybe it's three or four people a day now could that grow to six people in a couple of months where where do we draw that line is there anything that has to change do we need to come back at that point in time if he decides he's going to have more people more days or does that is this just like a blanket he can increase at any time that's all thank you Landon McDonald 59 norw Drive I've been there since 1978 you swear to God or affirm that the teson you're about to give is a truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do so swear thank you please proceed I've been in the neighborhood for quite a few years and apparently some people don't know that there is another home that had a business in it and they had customers come and didn't generate much traffic apparently so little traffic that nobody noticed that the business was there some of the longtime residents here perhaps aren't aware of that and so it didn't seem to create a problem and then every July 16th we would have fireworks in Berkeley Heights and we used to have parties and lots of cars coming in and so there's lots of traffic from that and so compared to a car coming in three times as opposed to dozens of cars coming in and being there for a long time and creating a lot of traffic and so on and so forth uh I don't see a major problem with the traffic here um it's this is a person who's trying to feed his family as he said and so uh from what I've heard so far from everybody here um I just haven't seen anything that would cause me to have a problem with it just out a question what was the other business the other business somebody uh was they had cosmetics and hairdressing and stuff like that and they would have somebody come in and park in their in their driveway and ptici Y okay yep and I'm not sure uh uh the interesting thing is it created so little traffic that probably a lot of people never noticed thank you s Jam BR 47 Norwood swear to God to airm that the testim you're about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do thank you please proceed yeah just you know as a planning board I would imagine that all of your decisions are based on you know what what is best for the community and how the community would continue to grow and Thrive um and I haven't seen any compelling you know any compelling here as to how that would Elevate um anything within the town anything within the community and anything within his neighbors um as far as if this work allowed um I believe you know the individual bought into a quiet neighborhood um had conversations with people prior to buying about the quiet neighborhood where everybody stands together um so went into the home knowing that that this wasn't what it was intended to be um I think everybody as been said before bought in um I was not aware when I came and I'm I'm fairly new to the neighborhood um that this quiet church that's closed most of the time um um would be such a problem as it is and in this little Community where there are no curbs where there are no parking spots where there are no we get inundated every couple of weeks and everybody who's got Frontage on um on Norwood on King ends up having to kind of replace their lawn every time that somebody comes in so I think some of the sensitivities to the parking are due to there's another one that's been they have their lot I'm sure their zoning says they're supposed to use that lot but the entire community gets upended um I don't think one is the other but I think it explains some of the the concerns with parking um I will say that as I stated before that extension of King Drive is not a road it is not maintained as such it is not plowable I if we're talking about betterment I'd love to see what betterment to the community having a home office here is you know something along the lines of that street needs to be paved and maintained regularly bus stop being moved so it's not an issue I mean presently it's not in the best spot one way in and out um so that's that's kind of the spirit here as you consider that I'd ask you to go through we're allowing one person to have betterment for their life and I I know it can be a fundamental difference is it a make or break and were you aware of that you know buying the house you that's that's something you know in your mind as far as where you leave here with the decision but I like to to to see where allowing this actually provides betterment for our community in in some way um and and I haven't heard anything around that today uh so I'd urge kind of consideration there uh as leaving is this something that really has to be allowed is compelling to be allowed um and does good over potential harm or concerns um thank you thank you than Youk you for your okay I don't any motion I think itate the question I I do have a question yeah sorry um with the acupuncture needles is that considered medical waste um yes it is how is that treated and disposed of very carefully uh I I get uh a Sharps uh disposal that is uh paid up front for um it gets mailed out through ups and they dispose of it it's a a recognized company so it doesn't go to the curb no no it is there is a process for for how this is treat taken care of and properly disposed so it's not going to end up out on the street or a corner no CH I'm only asking a question because guess up no I I drop it off to UPS and it gets handled that way okay thank you question here can I ask a question of Liz absolutely please so signage going back to one of the earlier points we talked about it is signage optional or a necessity because it sounds like some of the issues that are coming from the neighborhood is people driving past the house going to a street making a turn that's in could be where children are playing or or um blocking traffic or along those lines is that something that is a requirement or is it op optional for the home office the ordinance doesn't require it it permits it so is that a stipulation that could be made that there would have to be a sign to make sure that people don't drive past or at least have some visibility is that permitted as a stipulation if the board finds it to be reason first of all if the applicant s stipulates to it for intensive purposes it's not a problem but uh but uh if the board wishes to propose such a condition have to uh ensure that it's reasonably related to mitigating a condition that is or detriment that's associated with this use so in short it's it's possible of course uh just to round out what Liz was saying for the board's edification uh while it's allowed it's allowed with certain restriction signage uh and in particular it has to be uh compant with subsection 1552 I which might be for Liz help me out and uh uh uh would have to be visible to normal observation outside the dwelling in order for it to be a compliant sign that the applicant will be allowed to have if you wanted to to suggest it or impose it as a condition in the event there's approval signage is always a conundrum because you're also trying to maintain a residential character Mr chairman can I ask another question to Michael your your your patients do they tend to be regular customers uh yes typically okay and how many times do you usually treat a patient I mean it that's that's a hard question it depends on what's happening with the person uh I have some people that'll come in for a matter of uh sometimes it's one visit and then sometimes it's four or six visits and then for other people I'll see them once a week for multiple years so this this comes along the uh the same pattern as like say a physical therapist who has people who they just need to find you once and then they know where you are um there's truth that you know there there's I think you mentioned that your father was a chiropractor uh or that you just know that how kind of how it works um some people are um Regular repeat people that come in um and other people come in when their shoulder hurts and so it's it's a little bit of both right so the point I'm trying to make is that you know people come in for a series of visits they pretty much have to find the house once and if they repeat customers that they'll they'll know where they're going after that so the need for the sign might be for instance what door to go through might be a sign that big on the door acupuncture right but I think the neighborhood seems uh they probably wouldn't like a big shingle out on the street and and it in my own uh mind um a big shingle on the on the side of the road isn't quite the flavor of the neighborhood uh that I want I wouldn't want that for myself either and how would you advertise are you advertise on the web offer GPS on how to get there uh so I find um um being in network with insurance companies uh so I mean through the web through their websit you get references yeah yeah referrals rather referrals yeah um I find it's one way that people find me um otherwise is through website traffic online presence is probably the most important thing I'd just like to ask if this discussion is relevant we're talking about a site plan here which runs with the land we're not talking about this particular years this particular uh use as an acupuncture clinic and the demographics of of what we're looking at in 2024 may be entirely different 5 years from now when there's a new owner who wants to open an accounting office and still has the authority of this site plan to work from this uh this is not an a a review of an acupuncture clinic this is a review of whether whether or not a home office can be built under site plan Authority which will remain lawful for the life of the property thank you for your comment Dy noted I think we're going to move now if we could to a summ from thec so we can move toward because I think it's going to be that we listen to the and Mr chairman the stipulations would address what Mr Mr sand was talking about and that would be the point um is it okay yes pleas um so um my wife U and I um long before um or before my son was born uh first looked for um what towns um had um would accept a home office uh and the towns that uh didn't accept home offices weren't towns we really looked at um we looked um at towns that had good school districts and we wanted it to be a quiet residential um and Gillette fit all these categories and had close family for us as well and we knew the schools were good and we like that it was a quiet neighborhood that we wanted to maintain that um but the fact that it was favorable to home businesses in in the um in in the regulations was one of the reasons why it was a town we looked at um before uh we purchased I talked to several of the neighbors uh actually a good handful of them and said hey how you doing my name's Mike um we're looking at this house what do you think of the neighborhood oh you like it that's good to hear everyone has been very very friendly uh it's been really encouraging uh and I'm an acupuncturist what would you think about if there was an office here and it was really quite positive responses to the question before we purchased the house um and so you know it being a house that fit that had a layout that worked with um the town regulations was also we uh one of the reasons we got we bought it um and knew that we were going through this process eventually that having to come to through the town and get formal approval uh was what we wanted to have happen happen um and so here we are um and I think what I'm proposing what we're proposing uh is going to be a low impact to the neighborhood we're not looking for a lot of traffic I mean we're as I had said before if it got to a point where I was that busy and I wanted to quit my job which I currently don't I would then probably get a two or three room office somewhere in one of in the town or one of the neighboring towns uh my goal is to be present for at home with my wife and my son um and I want to be able to see him get off that bus stop myself while uh you know and walk across the street and be home and still be able to cook dinner for him and uh see an occasional patient when uh when I'm doing that so that's kind of the vision that we have we're not I'm not looking to turn this into some huge multidiscipline practice um not out of my home anyway that's not where I want to live uh and so I think what I Envision fits a lot of what we're hearing from the comments from the people in the town that have concerns um I think what I Envision it fits quite well not just with the town regulations but also the the feeling of the neighborhood and um that's my thought of where you know what I Envision thank you very much okay I think we're at a point some of the stipulations before I do just for clarification purposes we're closing uh the hearing all testimony public applicant and public uh the the um it's important first before anybody consider any conditions uh that we clarify with the help of our uh and the board fully understands you know what relief exactly is being sought and what the standards are for that Rel and please weigh in Liz at the as you deem appropriate chair's permission um uh the the first there are want two five standards in essence four standards to a home office being permitted as an accessory use the the fifth so-called standard is that there's a requirement that the uh even if you meet all the other standards that you get minor site plan approval from the planning gr so even if you have a fully conforming otherwise accessory use of a home office still have to come to the planning board still have to get monor side plan so there's that M monor safe plan uh this from the testimony that's been Prov uh as the planner for the board uh correct me it from where I'm wrong it appears as if standard a not more than 25% of the floor area at least in your opinion may have been satisfied but that's for the board ultimately to decide uh it appears as if not more than one person who is not a resident of the dwelling is employed would be employed by such use but but again it's ultimately for the board to decide um the signage issue apparently there's not a request for signage um but if there is a request or if there is the stipulation or imposition of a condition for signage as I understand it the signage is going to comply with the ordinance so therefore there would be a violation necessarily of the third standard C at least in your opinion list would that be accurate uh yes and also the applicant um indicated that they would not be displaying any merchandise or etc etc all part of standard so at least there's three so far that may there may not be a violation with those conditions of the accessory use and again to be clear because as this board knows if this was a principal use that was conditional and had a and there was a violation of any of the conditions it'd be over at the zoning board this is an accessory use and that's why uh uh uh uh it's with the planning board there's no D variances even potentially at issue um but the fourth standard D Liz's memo uh is off street parking is provided in accordance with the ordinance his owning ordinance for both the home office and the single family residential use of the property and that I think is where the Board needs to not only make the determination as to whether or not uh uh that's satisfied or if not then there is a even if all the other standards are satisfied there is a bulk variance or C variance required because you have a violation of a condition of an otherwise permitted accessory use that's what we call C variant or vault variant uh the it was testimony and you may wish to get the planner's position although you ultimately will make the determination uh but from our planner whether what is the required number of parking spaces and what is the provided number and is there a deficiency um if I recall correctly I heard somewhere between 3 and 3.5 possibly being required and and it may be perhaps as little if not less than two in the two spaces in the garage uh because of the length or lack thereof uh of the driveway and the width or lack thereof of the driveway and the circumstances with respect to the street King Drive if I understand the name correctly uh not uh the um so maybe that's something that Liz can speak to to help the board make that DET mination because you need to know first is it a minor site plan or is it a minor site plan and at least one bulk variant and then Liz sure I'll be happy to remind you as what I of what the alternative standards are c1c2 for establishing relief to that bu variance if there is at least one of them I I I I want to comment on the parking issue because this is something something that has not come up and was not a matter of testimony but there are some facts which are common knowledge and and I'd like to relate those facts uh because they do bear on this board's determination King Street extends both directions both east and west from Norwood King Street was laid out east and west of Norwood in 8 in 1928 that's 96 years ago believe it or not King Street to the West has maybe 12 15 houses on it and ends in a culdesac King Street to the east was never developed over the past 96 years and is in fact a paper Street referring to the recent paper Street nonsense since it's been going on at the township committee now as a paper Street it presumably doesn't exist except it more or less exists because there are two uses on this street one is the sewer pump station and the other is the garage for 33 Norwood now over the past 96 years this street has never been developed wider than 10 ft wide Stone it is not maintained by the town we don't know who is going to replace the stone when it wears out because the town won't do it and the town doesn't plow it because it is not a street it it and it certainly is not developed to Township standards or accepted by the town as a public Street now where this is leading is to our ordinance which maintains which s States clearly that all driveways must terminate on a real accepted certified public street now to the extent that the applicant wants parking to be in his driveway his driveway does not conform because it does not per the ordinance connect to a real public street it only connects to a paper Street which is not maintained so I think the issue that I'm trying to raise for Council to aine on which I'm sure he will is whether or not parking in a driveway which does not conform to the ordinance standards for driveway is in fact uh another variance that may or may not be required and may not even be permissible under the town standards for uh proper streets and that's the end of my question could you repeat that Dennis not a good question the the um the home does the home AB but a Norwood is it adjacent okay so and there also because this is separate apart from the home office uh uh question uh and this is a question as to whether or not additional variance relief is necessary which might not have been picked up by the zoning officer or planner prior to the hearing um the the the uh is there an access now there's a walkway but not an access from Norwood Drive Right the access the only curb cut vehic the vehicular access is from vehicular yes paper street from the paper Street uh and in your opinion does that that's not a planning variance is it required I mean that's that's not in the zoning ordinance I think it's it's is a d35 d36 oh planning gu yeah it's a CH well for any development um but is it a planning variance that's required for not development application but for uh home office whiches re minor Cy I am not sure just so the board always aware at 35 and 36 is in the municipal land use law and that is if you're going to develop a lot that doesn't have Street Frontage you have to prove that you can still have um emergency access Etc um for to the house this is not or to whatever would be there this is an application for a home office the question is is is that is this proposal development uh that would require a d35 or 36 planning variants or is it a a an application for a an accessory use that requires site plan relief and possibly variant for the park which frankly I suspect it does require at least a bulk Vari for the park um I can make but the plan should also Rush decision Mr s professional no he's not he's not gonna stump him there's a question here and it's a question of interpretation if if this is where board member sand was going it's it's an excellent question in my opinion regardless of where he was going but uh the the the uh if if the if the query is is there a d35 36 planning variants required as a result of this application I'm not certain there is uh but you know this is a subject of interpretation legally I'm far from certain that it's required for this use accessory use application that said in In fairness and Ence to our planner and nobody called it out um you know I want to make sure she could well let me just stop you yeah so section 35 reads no per no permit for the erect of any building or structure we're not talking about that here so it's it it doesn't pertain my leg opinion was happened to be correct and her planning opinion is correct and still an excellent inquiry but with respect to a planning variance for not abing a a public Street uh there is no erection or installation of a structure that's proposed here the sign wouldn't count even if there were a sign it's not re ired and it may not even be requested uh so I don't think there's a reasonable interpretation that we'd need a d353 so while it was engaging and an entertaining intellectual exercise I don't think we need um if that was the concern well the the concern succinctly is can we approve off street parking if the off street parking itself violates the ordinance which say say that driveways must connect to a proper Street and I and I don't think I think the board and again In fairness to our planner she should be able to weigh in as well but I believe uh uh with respect to off street parking provided in accordance with the ordinance for both uh if you can I don't believe the board should be considering parking on King Drive as off street parking that would satisfy uh D standard now that said I believe it's a reasonable interpretation that if there were sufficient parking otherwise I.E enough spaces in the garage for the residential use and enough spaces in the driveway for the home office use such that there was no Delta between what was required and what was proposed uh uh then you know that you don't need off street parking I suspect that might not be the case here you know there's a shortage in the event there is a shortage in the parking uh that doesn't mean you can't Grant the approval what it means as I started out at the beginning was they need a bulk VAR he the applicant needs a bulk variance that bulk variance being uh because uh he cannot meet the standard d uh the requirement for sufficient parking for the home office use and all that said I think should way no I I I agree it would be a bulk variance but I am not sure that there's enough information before the board to determine whether they need that bulk variance can I can I ask Mr chairman can I ask a question so Mr Sandow you you asserted that this part of King Road is a paper Street and I understand you went through the whole paper Street exercise um and you're saying it's not a legitimate Road it's not a it's not an official road but it's that's not because it's gravel because we've had other official roads in town that are gravel have you confirmed that this part of King Drive is not a street because didn't that show up in like resolutions over time no no this has been sort of ignored because in the past for maybe the past 30 or 35 years years the Sewer Department of the Town used this paper Street to access the Centennial Pump Station which is only accessible on this via this paper street so the town public works department the town Sewer Department took it upon themselves to maintain this as a not quite lawful driveway to the sewer pump station no wait let me finish to the sewer pump station when the sewer uh system was sold three years ago the town stopped maintaining stopped spreading gravel stopped shoveling the snow or plowing the snow and aband literally abandoned this driveway uh apparently if anybody's ever going to maintain this driveway or paper Street or whatever you want to call it it's going to have to be the sewer company New Jersey American Water now that means that the driveway to this 33 Norwood which extends off the paper Street off paper King Street will get a free ride from the sewer company okay yeah okay but you lost me several sentences ago you said it's not a lawful Street what makes it a lawful Street the town has to accept it okay and do you have proof that the town has not accepted it the town has not accepted it because it's not wide enough it's not curbed it's not drained it doesn't meet Municipal Street standards okay so it doesn't meet the standards but when a town accepts it it's in a resolution somewhere right was that if the town accepts it and that takes me to the next point the remedy for all all of this is to do what we would do with any business that wanted a site plan approval which is improve the road to Municipal standards and get the town to accept it which would mean Paving it making it 30 feet wide putting in drainage as at least as far as his driveway and that the town accepted the street then his driveway would be lawful and therefore his driveway would be a lawful place to accommodate off street parking New Jersey American Water qualify as a resident on that driveway I can't I'm only relating the the facts as I know them they they own the pump station now H they own the pump station now who does New Jersey American Water yeah yeah it's interesting as this conversation is I've heard enough and I'm ready to make a decision yes I think we want to make a decision is there any final stipulations sure wanted to summarize briefly the well again and I I think you need to clarify what the V the relief is it's monor site plan and I believe unless alz has a different opinion there's a Delta uh there's a difference between how much parking is available and how much would be required rsis whether the requirement is three or 3.5 it appears to me to be two spaces maximum that are legally available under the uh uh ordinance it's not for me to interpret the ordinance for the zoning officer and the to interpret the ordinance so that's why I'm leaving it to our planner to give you the final word on that I think it would be prudent for the applicant to seek a variance for that uh section of the ordinance regarding would it be 3.5 versus two or three I to be conservative let's say 3.5 3.5 so I think what you're hearing from the planner is there's a two parking stall deficiency uh and so there's a minor sight plan required as well at a minimum as well as at least one bulk variance for the uh two parking space deficiency in the standard uh as an accessory use that's a bulk variant you're familiar with the C1 and C2 alternative bases for demonstrating that if not list can repeat them um the the uh the conditions as I understand them that have been stipulated to already and might want to be considered by the board uh to have the applicant stipulate to them orose them Boards of a mind to Grant uh would be uh no employees on site uh other than the resident uh of the application uh you may want to consider what was brought up by some board members one of them was our our deputy mayor uh perhaps an inter I don't mean to read your mind let me know if I'm wrong but an interval or a gap be at 15 minutes or otherwise between scheduled appointments uh you might want to consider um uh requirement that the uh that the applicant get these are all conditions of approval but there's no conditions if it's a denial uh uh uh required to notify employee uh patients not to to arrive more than x minutes before scheduled deployment so as to try to ensure that Gap exists and there's rarely if ever more than one car visiting the site this has been done in other municipalities in similar circumstances um limitations on hours uh and numbers of patients perhaps part the testimony um and uh of maintaining jurisdiction uh if there is a transfer of ownership or or um home office provider for lack of a better term uh remembering that the definition of a home office under 11 of our ordinance is a business medical or professional office located in the practitioners single family dwelling as an accessory use accessory to the residential use um and uh there was discussion of proof of lure and the like but that may or may not be something the board might want to consider if it's if the board's going to approve given the fact that apparently it's online um and I believe that's uh all the conditions that were stipulated to or might be available for stipulation willing to stipulate the conditions that have been summarized uh I'd request that instead of it being a 15minute gap it being a five minute Gap but other than that um I'm comfortable with with things you were saying and again the board can impose any conditions or or the board I'd like to deny the I'd like to hear from some of the board members in regards to this application I mean I I I mean I commend Mr ptera for coming to the board of his own accord I mean sometimes we have to drag people here so so thank you for that thank you for your time certainly it seems to me that you have complied with all the with the stipulations uh uh and I would be fine with five minutes um you've uh complied with the ordinance and would certainly be in favor of of uh granting the relief as requested I just need a clarification point if I can the jurisdiction of transfer the house you mentioned can you just repeat that and what were the intention is there well the condition that I think was stipulated to and we'll make sure he understands by repeating it uh was that the board would retain jurisdiction uh require site plan uh uh relief uh as well as any Associated bul variance relief that might be required uh if there is any transfer of the property or any other user who wishes who fall even Falls within the definition of home office use uh uh other than this particular applicant uh in this particular field of practice I'm sorry public comment we had Clos com I'm just for clarification I think it was unclear to everybody in this room that's why I'm asking for clarification and it's just about law it's not back and forth It's a discretion of I it was a lot of words so I'm just going to ask for clarification I realize it might be an oxymoron but I I think I heard throughout the course of all the words that this is if this is granted it automatically comes with a permit for signage and he can say that he doesn't want to sign but it's already permit included automatically in lisen weigh but it wouldn't automatically come with signage it's just that the standard under the home office standards uh is one of the standards is no show window display or merchandise or product or other demonstration of such use and also or excuse me other than you can can not required but can have a sign so long as it fits within the ordinance which I believe is a 4x4 I'm asking for clarification I heard what you what you read I'm asking for clarification outside the dwelling so it's not required that he have a sign understood right but it is permitted which means he does not need to come back he can just throw a sign there as soon as he's approv no right now we're right yeah right now we're we're we're the board hasn't decided yet right now he's not asking for a sign I don't to ask you clear you're you're asking if he can come back if he gets an approval can he come back and pop a sign in there and not have to come back to the board ask the the the uh uh and uh if the if for example if there's an approval and the approval comes with the requirement that there be no sign answerers no okay because the board might impose the condition that they're not be signed or that that's where the clarification it wasn't stipulations and that's that's the piece that missing here because we did speak about it we did bring it up and I think it was briefly mentioned as a stipulation but you did not recite it no and that's you're correct I didn't I didn't recite it uh and by the way the board might impose or ask for stipulation as the conditions I didn't mention uh the board may have its own thoughts sure that's sure so can you just go just if I I I need clarification on or jurisdiction issue because my concern is I don't mind it is that this is a home office with minimal Improvement so you're not investing a lot of money into the property right sure right so no no improvement therefore the transfer of ownership I think has some Factor here because I agree I don't know if it needs then something else comes in and can builds upon it so what's the jurisdiction of ownership Clause that we you mentioned in terms of if gentleman sells the house what happens because to me that ends just you know I'm thinking we can't variances run with and and certain site site plan approval runs with the land so uh so it you can tailor the conditions accordingly within the LA uh you could make it fairly specific as to the type of use different types of Standards you can also require uh uh any anyone other than this applicant having to come back to the board for by retaining jurisdiction uh uh any anyone other than this applicant seeking to use a home office even for the same professional medic business use Excuse me professional business or whatever can that become a deed restriction not we we what we can do is we can require yes we can require uh a uh that they come back to the board for uh uh relief and retain jurisdiction and you can also require that that particular condition uh be a deed restriction meaning uh it's a deed what happens is the applic would have to do a deta himself or themselves and would be recorded the county clerk's office because as we know variances and land use approvals there's not a central indexing situation uh excuse me mechanism it's not report at the county clerk unless you require the applic to do that that way subsequent purchasers successors uh in title would be on actual notice not just constructive notice of these conditions including the condition that if they want to do a home office even the same one if you will they got to come for the board do you agree or or or if some new owner wants to establish an accounting office in in the same property they are also restricted to three hours a day and so many patrons per per hour and all the other restrictions that we're placing here and if that becomes a deed restriction then that becomes a burden on the sale because it's EV it's obvious to the potential buyer that they have to go along with this it's not something that's buried in the resolutions file in the zoning office the I have to admit half and half that would have to be reced with the so what are the implications of of a deed restriction I'm sorry got be clear I'm sorry what what are the implications of a deed restriction I can't give you legal advice no one can other than but you're free to retain any Council you wish the the the the but the implication is generally is that it's recorded in the county clerk's office and if you sell the property uh if you were somebody else would to tell them hey you you know it's a home office you could do uh any kind of home office or you could do an acupuncture what it's going to be recorded all the conditions of any resolution of approval if there is one will be recorded in the county clerk's office and whoever's going to buy your property is going to know that uh what they can and can't do it's going to be very limited and it may also require uh them regardless of all the Li addition to all limitations they got to come back to the board so so you're tying to make sure you're clear you're tying yourself no I know I just want to make sure because it's you're looking you're tying yourself and future purchases to the conditions you're approving tonight we require we require that a a deed be recorded if a house has uh a senior Suite attached to it and is this any different although we don't don't have a requirement in our ordinance that it be recorded as we do with the senior Suite would it be comparable would work legally would work the same way deed restrictions a deed restriction it puts all successor entitled on not so if I understand correctly um first of all we plan to be in this house for a very long time um but not the point um let's say it gets approved um with these restrictions what that means is the the theoretical next person buying the house would an who's also an accupuncturist wants to use it for that he would need to come that person would need to come before the board and go through the same approval process is that what we're saying you have to come to the board but also would be subject to all those same conditions that you you you know are in in your that makes logical sense sure that's fine is that something that we do with every application for a home office we have a deed restriction this is something that is is not uncommon in land use for approvals where appropriate I don't know if we've had any home office approvals in the past and if so I don't know whether we had deed restrictions or not this is the first one this is the first one I we have had deed restrictions for other here at this board and at the Zoning Board in this municipality for other types of approvals including as board member Sandow pointed out senior s Al they are the required um but it's not uncommon where appropriate the thing of it is right it's allow under in the statute right and it doesn't say there needs to be a deed restriction it just seems like we're just going way over the top this it really is variance but it's for the board to decide what if any condition it's a resolution the board to decide and for me it's there's a lot of it's is a small neighbor Dead End Street question about the the the drive right so I think there's restrictions there's physical restrictions to the property to be something that's as frequently used potentially as has been suggested so but I don't want but I'm sensitive to the fact that gentleman wants to do and come full and done all the good stuff but I'm also sensitive about what happens next so for me this this restriction in this particular instance and if you're okay is a reasonable thing to request and I would have to decide make my decision based upon that request being put forward Ju Just Another question what would what would be the difference between a deed restriction versus just the resolution the the resolution as I mentioned before is not uh recorded at the county clerk's office so when somebody sells a house for example sometimes good real estate attorneys I use the term good in my opinion uh will find out what resolutions exist that may be applicable to a particular property down at the municipal building but not everybody does uh but a title company will automatically pick up on the transfer of property or they better uh the uh uh anything that's recorded including a deed that that someone records it's literally a deed saying from me to myself uh for a dollar uh here's the conditions in the resolution boom I'm paraphrasing so it's in the county clerk's office title companies pick it up everybody's on actual notice if they purchase the property that it comes with these limitations on the home office use if they're looking to use it as a home office if just well they'll see it either way but if they don't if they're not looking to use it at a home office presumably they're not going to care that much right so resolution would work so so but they'll know that it that it's that it's there so that if they then sell the property they'll know that they can't tell people it's a home office with no limitations uh the next person after them might you know want to use it as a home office it it it it spells it out in the records of at the county clerk's office for all to all are on notice so it would be with the same restrictions the three hours a day so if somebody wanted to come and use it for six hours a day they would have to appear before the board again anyway and and you may consider as I said you may require them to come to the board you know even if they comply with all the conditions just to get site plan approval again and establish that they indeed comply with all the conditions do you have any further comments either supporting or not supporting this application oh no I I I'm in favor of the application I think he just want to work from home and do the right thing I mean I know there's concerns with the neighborhood but I don't see this as being a big detriment to the residents anybody else want to share yeah I do I I have a question um and more for Steve um the ndeed restriction pass applying stipulations take me through a real life scenario I'm going to lay it out for you and you're going to tell me what happens stipulate that it's approved for let's say three days a week three hours a day specific hours only for acupuncture five minutes between appointments no more than three appointments a day that's how he operates now when he sells his house what can the new owner do if if that if those are the conditions of the approval technically that new owner uh if they wish to pursue a home office would be bound by those same restrictions would they have to be an acupuncturist the the if you make those conditions of approval if you limit it as that approval that way uh yes if all the real estate people and lawyers involved in the real estate transaction find the record yeah that that that's where it was going that's the difference it's not at the county clerk's office uh and it's not going to necess it's not going to be picked up by a title company I can tell you that much uh and uh okay and and the the attorneys involved in the transaction uh the purchasers attorneys going to have to find it and if here she doesn't okay I got you so next scenario he does so well he does so well he opens up his own place he quits doing this at home he sells his house no one even knew he had a home office there there's still a resolution of approval and if you grant that relief the relief okay runs with the land all right but we're arguing on one hand no one's going to find that but they're goingon to find all right I got it yeah and that's the main thing are they going to find out at some point they sell can they yeah let's we got to cut down the dialogue does anybody else have any comments they want to make to the application for or just for the rest of the board members toar I'm in favor of accepting an application for an acupuncturist with a f minute window and being that in a perfect world that runs with the land I'm fine with it without correct and com do we want to stipulate the days of operation and the hours of the days I think the days of op you said Wednesday Thursday um can we limit to the number of days as opposed to which days like it's possible my schedule changes six months from now yeah if somebody can't make it Tuesday 5 to eight um sure except Saturdays might might you better be suited limiting how many patients you see a day um actually that that would be better actually yeah what like three or four patients a day max um if if you want to be if we can make it be generous at five that would be but I mean and never on Sundays never on Sundays I agree with that also three days a week was that five five people I think think somewhere in here the town has to get involved as to whether or not they will allow this paper Street to remain in its present nondefined state if they decide to close off the paper Street then the parking Arrangements at this hearing at this site plan hearing go away if the street is not available and or if they decide to to Grant to vacate the paper Street in favor of the adjacent Property Owners it may make this parking Arrangement unviable you have a specific comment on this application uh my my comment is we don't know enough to to Grant approval and we may not have authority to Grant approval for uses of the paper Street that's that's that's that's my perspective I'm sorry if you're asking me I don't disagree with Mr sen that's why I said and I think that's why our planner said and correct me from wrong is uh there appears to be a parking uh variance required this parking standard cannot be met if the requirement is basically four spaces 3.5 is four spaces there's no such thing as they have space uh and there's two that fit in the garage and apparently not enough driveway to constitute a legitimate space uh and there's there's not a street that appears to be allowed for off street parking you're left with four versus two it's a Delta of two spaces that's a variance what we' I'm inin atast bring motion i' like theer I'm sorry was it all all the uh conditions stipulated to uh except not withstanding that it was stipulated to no no no filing of a deed in the county clerk's office that's all a deed restriction is okay istion I know it's Deb's doing it but we have councilman Ray is with motion and board member D with the still second thank you uh committee man ray yes Miss still Yes Deputy Mayor lavender yes Mr hands yes Mr Mel yes Mr opala yes Mr Sandow no Vice chairman Jones no chairman Richardson yes motion carries thank you very much congrat thank you right good luck and stay there for many many years is all I say that's that's the intention it we're not a common breed there's not many of us out only sell it to an acupuncturist thank you everybody I'm sorry members of the public we're still in session so if you could please take your conversations outside thank you it's okay thank you yes no worries no worries thank you no way so we do have number 1 I I'm gonna exclude myself from that one yeah I have a correction I have a correction yes my last name is misspelled oh look at that e y i apolog for that that's about all right it was all fine a motion to approve without correction yeah second I what St always say exensions for those not present okay uh moving right along uh board secretary report so I sent everybody the status report the updated one that I sent out uh last week included the change of White Bridge Road going to um zoning board um and and Mr H brought up earlier if you notice on the base where I the base of the application status where there's a lot of things listed anything that's approved last year means it's kind of in construction moved on done so anything that's listed still on that application status report especially on the bottom is waiting for resolution compliance or in in the case of our particular situation they're all waiting for SE so um I think that's fairly explanatory we have um another we have a subdivision coming up in a couple weeks for you and then I was just informed that there are at least more applications coming in within the next couple weeks I'm sorry I might have missed it but do we know what if anything we have schedu for the next meeting yet a subdivision we have at least one subdivision to or L adjustment subdivision same thing yeah when can we expect distal um not probably not next week probably the following so um and then in addition oh and teres asked how I was told today by um everybody knows Fred zelli that he's giving us about five applications but he didn't specify which were at the zoning board and which were the planning board so I won't know that until February 5th exactly and then I can update the status and everybody unless everybody has any questions thank you busy promises to be a busy year yes uh next item is committee assments and given the late hour going to approach MERS of the bo individually outside of meeting respect participate also participate init committee assignments are very important this year you know we we kind of got a little bit of a free pass with regards to a lot of the intense work that was done on the master plan regards of these areas that now need a lot more attention especially the ordinance committee and just review real quickly the other ones that had been initiated I think Mr sand it was before we initiated our standard operating procedures and those I don't think have moved any further from back maybe two or three years ago so we' like that is correct at least not it not in committee form that doesn't mean that work wasn't done hasn't been going on it just means that the committee stopped meeting at the beginning of covid just asking the board are there any other questions in regards to these five committees yeah uh thank you Mr chair the uh prism adjustments what's that is that the I think that's adjustments to that's me right that's what I was working on before okay all right that looks like a rebranding that one well volunteered the the preapplication review what we're doing that that that we didn't do that for a while didn't we we we hav done it for a long time so basically situation if a site plan or a subdivision um inquiry comes to my attention um if it's something that would be going to just specifically to the planning board as a subdivision or a site plan application and you would offer that right weer an applicant may not want they maybe they don't know if they want to put forward all the money and the time and effort that it goes into a site plan or subdivision so uh this board offer or you know the plan few members of the planning board and our professionals offer time it's like a 15 minutes slot of time but we used to do the park and that was public here then we had this pre-application review which was behind the doors so is is which one are we proposing to do here well it's really up to the it's really up to the board you can do what you want so the committee will decide what we're going to do correct there you go that's first decision second I I just I'm just gonna say