##VIDEO ID:2ukGDWdLClY## e make announcements we're on the air I switched it tonight CU for the board you know smack the g go ahead just don't Smack me with still on that I'd like to call to order uh the planning board for the township of L Hill regular meeting today is December 10th 2024 and I have 7:30 on the nose can you call the order of compliance please absolutely thank number one call the order and statement of compliance adequate notice of this meeting or hearing has been provided by posting a copy of the public meeting and hearing dates on the municipal bulletin board and website by sending a copy to the echo Sentinel newspaper and by filing a copy with the municipal clerk number two standard board procedures any meeting or hearing conducted by the board is a quasi judicial proceeding any questions or comments must be limited to issues that are relevant to what the board May legally consider un reaching a decision and to Corum appropriate to a Judicial meeting or hearing must be maintained at all times number three meeting cut off announcement is made that as a matter of procedure it is the intention of the planning board not to continue any matter past 10:30 p.m. at any regular or special meeting or hearing of the board unless a motion is passed by the members then present to extend the meeting or hearing to a later specified cutoff time number four electronic devices all in attendance are asked to mute cell phones or any electronic devices as to not interfere with the proceedings Pledge of Allegiance Al to the flag the United States of America the rep for it stands one nation God indivisible liy andice okay roll call Deputy Mayor lavender present Miss Dill is excused this evening Mr Hans here Mr malinowski here Mr Mitchell is excused this evening Mr elala here Mr Sandow here Vice chairman Jones present and chairman Richardson is excused tonight thus you are our acting chairman thank you very much we have a quorum we have a quorum all right so first order of business is a board discussion to talk about the state plan cross acceptance um I did get some information on that so before I turn it over to uh uh Chris the attorney to to give us more commentary regarding that um I did the information I've received is the uh committee will work uh with us and uh the Morris County Planning Representatives uh there will be a review of the state plan consistency review from Morris County to and providing feedback and responses as to whether the state plan is consistent with long Hill's master plan and its inconsistent um what inconsistencies are and if there are proposed remedies that time frame should be about a year's time from when the state plan is issued which has not been done at this time um I've also been advised that the committee does not need to appoint a resolution it can be appointed from the planning board chair or the board itself so Chris can you provide some more information on that I'll do my I'll do my best Mr acting chairman but I'll call you Mr chairman Mr Jones accept okay so um yeah so everything in a nutshell what's going on here is the uh pursuing to the state planning act the uh State Planning Commission or the SBC it's required to adopt a state development plan every three years um the last time they actually did it was 2001 so that's actually 23 years but nevertheless they finally decided to get around doing it so that's the process we're kind of in right now right so correction to that what you just read Mr chairman the uh the day after I think that email is from December 3rd you're referring to could the day after they issued the preliminary plan that's what I have here if anyone wants to take a look it's about 160 something pages 67 to be exact um and that kind of steps forth all the state's various planning goals for you know the next not just the year but for years you know into the future right long-term planning type of situation right so now it's at the stage where again this is a preliminary draft of the plan need they need to adopt the final drafting plan right so they have this entire process set up whereby um essentially either the county or some other kind of entity I can get into those in a second Regional entity they're called a um this is specific spefic term for hold on one second uh the negotiating entity right basically what's going on now is that each municipality has to review the state plan offer comments see where their planning goals line up with State plans planning goals and the county or whatever the negotiating entity is some of the other ones include like the uh I forget the name of it but the entity that manages like the metal lands for example and other kind of special areas they're The Entity that's responsible is kind of like the in between between the municipalities the local loc whatever local agency it is and the state so in that's that's basically in a nutshell what's going on I wish one of the planners was here either the either Liz or or the township planner to kind of offer more because this is more of a planning thing but you know it's nevertheless it's a legal requirement pursuing the statute um so that's a very broad 50,000 foot view so I I guess the way long thing is each municipality needs to sign off on it and it needs to be a governing body that does it right so as I understand what Long Hill is doing is they're setting up a committee and uh def lavender here I I don't know he has anything May lavender that's what I thought um I don't know exactly how you guys are planning but as I understand you're making a committee between members of the planning board and then members of the governing body as well and you guys are kind of meet review this stuff and take it from there right right right so yeah that's the broad Strokes so this is a draft version that we have correct that that's not something that we can put out to the public about right well this is this is the state draft so this is as far as I'm aware the state put this out for everybody to review me c people can Source if they to find that information exactly exactly and we have a year's time when they make the final right when they release the final okay so whenever that final version comes out then the clock starts for us right okay actually well there's a clock taking right now to get to get your feedback in within a year within the year we need to okay right so so we need to pull that group together to start the review process to start putting our feedback and it goes straight to the state or does it go straight to the county it goes well the county works with you and then the county basically kind of Aggregates everything that they do with all the their various subsidiary municipalities then they go to the state I'm sure there's probably some back and forth between everybody I'm granted there's a reason they probably reason they haven't done it in 23 years it's a very honorous process but yeah that's it not show Mr S I saw you raising your hand sorry Mr I want to commend Deborah for not making copies of 168 Pages for each of us that was a prudent decision and it is consistent with the plans environmental speak there you go he's got a point this is the biggest piece of emptiness I have run into since I've walked through some of the cathedrals in Europe huge empty space in 168 pages uh I did actually read and look for some things in there I found that in 168 page state plan there is zero mention of the pic River zero there is one mention of the Great Swamp and it's in a paragraph entire that starts out by saying additional areas of critical concern should be considered in the future such areas include the Great Swamp in the future which means that for this round of cross acceptance maybe we do talk about the Great Swamp and maybe we don't talk about the Great Swamp so much for an empty plan also counselor please note that at page 99 there is a definition of the planning board would you like to read that definition out loud before I do Mr sand I just want to point out I didn't draft this but I will read it out loud for you planning board means an elected board established fors stop somehow or other with 30 people working on in Trenton putting this together they decide to Define planning board as an elected board I don't remember being elected I don't even remember campaigning but I will note uh for that document it is 23 years old and they do talk about about the future well we were well into the future of that document yeah but if we're supposed to comport with this document are we going to start electing our planning board defer that to the township committee or is this one of the biggest comments that we can send back to Trenton about our our thoughts about this document right well that's why the cross acceptance process exists Mr Sandow so you can let them know where I stopped reading I stopped reading at page 99 when I got to elected planning board because I figured that nobody else had proofread this thank you Deborah for not printing it thank you Mr sand so can you remind me what's the time frames again you have about a year for the the cross acceptance process to work beginning from when was it uh dece uh December 4th that's when the preliminary plan got approved December 4th so basically this time next year right s okay thank you any other questions from any commit all sorry any members of the [Applause] board so is this is this going to be a Perpetual process if it's supposed to be every three years and you have one year after it's issued is it just going to keep going the whole like when they initially adopted so the state planning Act was adopted in 1985 and they stopped doing the three-year updates I'm great I know this for certain but I would assume they they did it every three years from 1985 up until 2001 and then they stopped I know this is fact from 2001 to today they didn't do anything with it now they're finally getting back around to doing it for whatever reason um so we can see one of two scenarios playing out we could do every three years or we can do whenever they get around to the next iteration yeah right I would in my opinion I granted I'm not a legislator but I think it might be a little more prudent to maybe do what what like a municipal planning board does every 10 years you have to re you know do the master plan reexamination I that might be a little more half but I'm not in a position to make fol down in Trenton have to figure out these drones are right now I got a BB gun in the car just in case FAL crime that way uh sorry about that well good thing you told me before I did it y there you any other comments regarding this I wouldn't waste any time trying to work with this within the scope of this plan fair enough did anybody else actually read it any part of it not necessarily through page 99 no I chance I skimmed I just got the if we were to get a copy would you be a to put a cop I can print a copy if you'd like a copy yes I think did we sent it a digital one right I think you yeah circulated a digital version everybody right I sent the digital yeah do you have to email me and remind me anyone else need a hard copy just Mr Hand one copy thank you thank you anything more before we move on to the next event it I'm sure this will start heating up more in the next calendar year I don't see calendar on the agenda here in front of me well because that'll be on the reorg that was just sent for information say again the calendar for 2025 yeah that's will be on the reorg that was just sent to everybody in draft format because you don't vote on it until the reorg meeting I just wanted to commend you for the putting it together intelligently oh thank you so much two comment appr [Applause] and the chairman will explain why I'm sorry say that again why this is a good calendar it's good schedule I've not looked at the calendar you can point it out to me I I I said to myself why is the only November meeting two days before Thanksgiving and then I did a little subtraction and discovered that if we held it at the normal time the second Tuesday it would fall right on Veterans Day that is a reason why we wouldn't do there go good job there you go there you go better call Mr sand well done uh but one more question about the state do we have to choose members for this committee as of tonight I don't believe so at least in my opinion it would make more sense to do it next year because I don't know who's coming back who's not to be reappointed okay and um Deputy Mayor lavender has uh stated that there is uh some people that are already going to be on that board that committee sorry that committee yeah all right so we'll we'll we'll put I'll put that on the agenda for the reorg then okay yeah something I think we'd have to coordinate a little bit with uh Miss Caldwell she's the the township planner correct um if the board pleases too I could ask Miss calwell will come on the reorg and if she's available to discuss it if you'd like yeah because I do believe she is the one handling it on behalf of the the township it' be nice if she came with like a timeline stuff for us Milestones to work against to get an understanding uh maybe a little more background okay uh more than what uh uh Chris and myself have Pro provided all right I think uh Steve may have provided the attorney yeah did you guys Warner I gave everybody a copy so there is there's some I haven't read through the entire document myself either but I gave everybody a copy of this document that attorney Warner sent out today too it's it's much it covers a lot of the ground of what I was just kind of describing before the highlights right for the most part little little more detailed but certainly so we should refresh ourselves prior to the reorg meeting so that way when Jessica's in here we all come together and have a conversation about what is act the requirement what are the objectives what are the milestones and how do we deliver it right okay yeah there's a lot of uh flowery stuff for lack of better get we'll get around flowers all right so uh before I move on to point number eight point uh just there's a typo in uh discussion oh look at that I see discuss you on why yeah spell check catches caps anyway um okay Point number eight we're moving to Applications we have an extension request for a minor subdivision minor subdivision carry from 1112 24 this is block 12 806 loot 21 57 Dogwood Terrace application number 23-10 P is and papa um I'll I'll do my best Mr chairman explain so you guys may recall at our last meeting we uh we were presented with this extension request this was from uh property you described 57 dog with terce and 66 Carlton Road um I reached out to their attorney because the board had some concerns about the La Road Carlton Road on oh it's 57 Dogwood Terrace and 66 Carlton Road two different properties blot is a common that's right blot L adjustment between the two of them um anyway yeah the board had some concerns about at the last hearing because the applicant didn't really provide much of a reason as to why they were requesting this um I followed up with their attorney and he sent us a letter today actually explaining that um they were waiting on my office as well as uh Joe's office to review the legal descriptions and the Deeds um as far as I'm aware they're they're we all signed off on that stuff so everything just needs signatures and they're they're ready to go so you know with that they still need the retroactive extension um 75 days from the date of the expiration of their approval which was uh well I'm sorry let me rephrase that 75 days from the day of the expiration of the 190 day filing period applicable to their approval so that's uh so so the reason for the delay is they were the applicant was waiting on the township to planning board attorney as well as the township engineer to provide p is that what just heard correct okay now they have their information now yep so they have we everyone signed off on that it's all been satisfied right they just need to get board signatures and then they're good to record and they're good to go so that's uh any members of the board have any comments questions or concerns regarding this so moved no it was clear and thank you for a motion yet it was clear and thanks for doing the additional work so that was fine my pleasure just doing my do my job thank you very much so if there are no other questions comments or concerns may I have a motion please so moved Mr sand I have a second second Mr sand out yes and the second was Mr malinowski correct lavender SC Deputy Mayor lavender I didn't see anything yes yes okay U Mr Hans yeah Mr melanowski yes Mr alala yes and vice chairman Jones yes motion carries real quick dad did I get the signature block yeah I'll fix it oh I was wrong still well no I think it's fine but I'm very OCD when it comes to page n nation and I like it's got to be in this I'll fix it okay all right before I send it out but but the form of it it's good right the form was good okay that's all great thanks okay moving to the uh next application this is a minor site plan carried from 10222 24 carried again 11122 24 and to be carried uh to the 1st um January 24th 2025 this is block 14602 Lot 10 zones MH uh 632 Myersville Road application number is 24-16 p uh can I have a motion to carry to January 24 uh January 24th 2025 so moved thank you Mr s second I'll second it thank you Mr all in favor and for the record we we will note that uh this is being carried with no further notices required by the applicant EXC thank you very much steal my thunder sorry it's all good you look busy I got it's all good I appreciate it no worry okay now uh on to the next applicant it's the minor site plan carried from uh September 24th 2024 carried again 10222 24 and Carri to again 112 2022 I have the microphone set up over there tonight yeah block 11612 lot 9 Zone o office this is 1390 Valley Road application number 2412 key is in Mr chairman real quick we everyone's getting ready I'll just point out um we uh last hearing we had on this was back on September 24th 2024 at that point in time uh the notice was deemed sufficient to give the board jurisdiction here and decide the case we carried it by voice announcement multiple times and I think by a public posting announcement as well so the board continues to have jurisdiction here and decide the case just wanted to put that on the record I'll let uh before you go any further this is the second time they've been before the board then right right if I did not I wasn't present on the first time is that a consequence here did you watch the video no I did watch it no I did not watch would be yeah I wasn't here but I did watch the video okay you did watch all right so we'll need to ass sign affidavit from um it's up to you councelor if you'd like to let him sit on the board for duration of the proceeding we wouldn't let him vote if we finish tonight okay than yeah go so your voice carries right it's it's a new sign anyway start you're starting over right and in the event you know they don't have we don't have a vote tonight for whatever reason you'd only have to go back and watch one inste of that's you got I believe you 1 hour 28 minutes exciting TV not going I watched it last night all right so Mr Panella I believe this is Mr KAS right you remain under oath sir I believe I st in at the last hearing so yes yeah you're still under oath um so just by way of summary Mr chairman if I may um we were um advised by the board of their comments uh at the last uh appearance before this board my client took those to heart and has tried diligently to redo the application uh to bring it more in conformance with the comments by the various board members so I'm going to ask my client to address what he did from that meeting to bring us here tonight and you also received revised plans in the interim he had hired Jamon engineering rather than just using a surveyor um and you utilize the services of a planner and engineer in preparing these plans uh also uh we had discussions with the county and we're uh going to be in compliance with their comments it's not completed yet but it's in process uh and we think that um we've brought a package to you tonight that hopefully the board can look favorably upon and uh the applicant and the community will be happy with the result U Mr Kazi as you to remind you you're still under correct could you tell us what you did from the meeting or after the meeting you guys can take a seat comfor Mr pel real quick before you guys go any further the plan set you guys submitted um what date did you guys send that in just want to make sure we have to mark it as an exhibit you remember the date that that was sent in yeah do you recall it was hand delivered um do you remember the it was hand delivered exactly 11 days ago okay all right so we don't need to Mark as an exhibit it's already been received well had November 30th I remember counting the days I came a day before the deadline as long as it's more than 10 days it doesn't yes I remember it was a day before that's your testimony we we'll hold you to it no I literally think it was like the day of before Thanksgiving okay right yes I think yeah Wednesday I have I have the other the stamp okay so that was well more than 10 days I just want to make sure we don't need to Mark plenty of time no you're good okay so as that was a 27 27 so as we discussed on the on the first meeting there was several questions and um and what I did again I I was advised to go and look at an example of another sign that is right down the road at another building and I went there took all the measurements exactly from the sign I took pictures everything the way how that sign looked I went back to the my sign company had a had two meetings with a design team they pretty much redesigned the sign exactly based on the sign that I was told to go and take it as an example and once that was done then again I I worked very closely with uh with an engineering uh firm uh Jam engineering Jam engineering and he also did a very detailed uh research and job going back to the site doing doing doing the proper measurements and everything and contacting the state and I believe believe having several conversations with the county with the county sorry with the county so also I was told that um the board might like to see samples of the product because I know there was a question last time of certain specific products being used so I went today to the sign company and took samples want you may I pass sure I I think we'd have to take those as an exhibit are you okay with parting with them yeah yeah we just make it sure okay so we will mark this as exhibit A1 a collection of three different items for everybody do you want to explain these to us first before I before I pass them around or do you want to sub to you why don't you point identify each of them for us please sign the sign is going to be constructed based on three if you look at the your correct so if so the black the black the black board is going to be this part right here this kind of material the panel black the Sun is going to be this material and this is going to be the trimmer around okay you say it's going to have a wood like appearance when it correct yes okay that's what we're looking yes thank you do anybody want like touching stles yes Tang um is there anything else you want to point okay so also um noted on the new drawings that were prepared by Jam engineering uh you can see the sight line the site triangle and the site distance and I just want to point out a slight discrepancy our planner spoke with uh your planner uh and um you know it indicated to her that number four um that the sign will not be in any required site triangle that's not quite accurate it will be in the site triangle as your ordinance has it uh but they had further discussions uh and it was pointed out that in um in section uh lu1 permitted by the approving Authority and that youe so your planner felt that you had the right and I she was going to try and talk to the board attorney I don't know if she hooked up with you today she did we we had a slightly different interpretation but I think you're still okay that the approving Authority I think would be in this situation would be the county because it's a County Road the town but the town doesn't pass on ordinance items it's either the planning board or a board of adjustment right no but if it's a county road if the county says it's okay then I don't think you need to BU that's what I'm trying to that's what I'm trying to say that's number two of my statement okay I was going to get there yeah but I think well okay if you don't think the board has the authority I I believe the board has Authority I think if you didn't have the County's approval but I think you do yeah we do they would to give you a variance for that but given that you have the county approval we you don't need a variance the county approval does not override the local ordinance but if the ordinance says that they it says well it depends on your definition of approving Authority say right it says approving Authority has the right to do it right do we know whether or not the county has issued a written opinion that says that they have reviewed the town ordinance as a part of their decisionmaking process well it does you will you will note that that every time one of our Consultants issues an opinion they always cite the references at the beginning of their opinion and my question is has the county citing our ordinance as a reference before they just rubber stamp an approval they've done this to us before they the county approves something that that is a contrary to our ordinance thank you Mr sand uh their a zoning official only looks at the application pursuant to the county regs and requirements for County Roads so that the addressed report only speaks to their requirement with regard to site distance and with regard to site distance you'll see that our engineer has drawn onto the map the site distance and it does comply with the county I can if if there's necessity for it and you feel strongly the board feels strongly about it uh you can make that a condition that we get a statement uh from the county that it meets with their requirements they're not going to pass comment though on the local authorities comments they leave that to the local authorities so so In fairness to your statement there the county has stated it has a 475 foot sight distance based on 40 mil hour uh as it approaches that sign right that's that's your sight line that the county has that County we meet that yes okay and the same is from the other direction whether I'm going east or west it's 475 at 40 mph right okay but the um the other uh point I want to make too with regard to your sight triangle is that in order for us to meet that we'd have to cut trees down which I know this board didn't want to do so um we're asking for either a waiver or a variance and um the planter did not feel a variance was necessary it was more a waiver from this board um and whatever the board feels comfortable with and the board attorney advises uh we'd be happy to go with but we think that we we meet the burden that we that should be granted to us I'm just pulling up the uh I notic if we approve the if there's two items that on here that are talking about removing so there's a the second sign that's closer to the building removing that sign so that's all both signs are going and new one's going to be put up okay there is another sign that is in front of the proposed sign what is that sign is that a it's just located on the east side ofos sign that's going to be removed what is that sign that is just a sign that has the building name that has it says Colonial professional so that is a current sign no so there is two signs there is one sign that literally faces the road that is the sign that you guys advised us to to take out because it's not it's not needed close to the building correct that's going to be remov about that one anymore okay and then and then on the other side of the driveway is the current sign yes but on here so going where this sign right here this this is where your sign is going what is that sign I think that's traffic sign the traffic sign so the county is going to move that sign no it says we move signs this is your existing this is your second sign this is one the names on actual sign that's what I was trying to figure out what that was that the actual Mr sand I just wanted to point out that the tree cutting is not an issue because the town ordinance on tree cutting says that a site plan approved by one of the land use boards uh is de facto approval to cut trees thank you Mr can I just ask a quick question about the site plan site the um triangle from the opposite direction as you come out of the development does that as you come out the parking lot yeah that sign is that going to imp anybody's sorry so I get I get the state county site plan traveling west on Valley Road no so so when you're coming out of the par somebody have a phone all right everybody put away I mean just to me that sign that's pretty close to the entrance of the parking lot yeah so is that one that says masonary sign is that no the proposed sign right it look pretty close one here po sign this sign yes it looks very close to the turning radius of a car coming out the parking lot person opinion it's um it's behind the curve but the the the exit is really wide we actually did went and and measure it is not it is not just like a driveway going going out it's it's really wide this it's it's wider and we felt that it was not an obstruction so the way how the engineer also measure measure because he was explaining to me that the way how you have to measure is that as so you go with a car at at a certain distance before you hit the road and you have to look at both sides that the sign is not does not block the view of the driver going in I mean out from that parking lot so to his point I do notice the proposed 12 in white stop line is very is is far out you see that the stop line in comparison it almost looks if I look at the paper it looks like a quarter of an inch but whatever that translates to an actual feet um it looks like the car if they stop at the stop bar we can see West on Valley Road absolutely and that's his question he wants to make sure that any car exiting the parking lot yes can look to the west and can see all the way up to the traffic light and Beyond look look East that's why that's why B minor M like to do this this kind of thing yeah that's what was the whole so you're comfortable they're comfortable that side is not going to impede anybody in entry or exit in correct correct the sign is going to be 10.5 ft from the curb line right that's correct right yes that's one of the things that you required or your planner required and that you asked us to so not only does that eliminated variance but that would probably inform whether or not I think try to visualize 10.5 ft from you know the street you know how much of a slight distance is I don't think it's I don't think it's fully to scale on the plan this doesn't appear that way but stop right if that's their stipulation yeah it was very close to the edge of the C that's the engineer has in fact shown that the the County's site distance requirement the line there yeah yeah yeah it's right on the 4 it's right on the line so it's 475 site distance um with the sign where it is and actually the current sign is also just a little over that sight line if you look at this the sign that's going to leave that was in one of the comments too yeah yeah I that's right about driving is coming in and out I'm more concerned one is any determination been made for lighting this sign yeah so uh uh the the way how so there was two options to put ligh to the sign one was to take power from a light pole which it's about 4 feet away there's a light pole that brings light to the parking lot take power from there under ground and and and light it the other option was to put LED lights with a solar panel they're they're small LED lights that are powered by solar panel and they would reflect both sides to the sign and have you determined which option you're going to go with uh I I prefer more the better option of running the wire and doing the proper way not doing the cheap way on with the solar panel regard regardless of I'm sorry to interrupt but just regardless of how you would what whichever let you fix it or decide to use it would comply with the the signage requirements correct okay great so there wouldn't need any variances no right everything will be compliance today would have been a tough day to get your solar panels working yeah true tomorrow's not any better on the subject of lighting our ordinance requires that all sign lights be turned off 30 minutes after the business closes yeah they'll be with a timer everything is with a timer there also the other lights as well I haven't finished my question my apology you have multiple tenants in the building and some of them may go home at 5:00 and some of them may work till 7:30 one night a week how will you know when The Last Tenant leaves to start the 30 minute timer so the building is being equipped with a fully digitalized and automated system that also as you approach the front door of the building it it scans your face and it unlocks the door that is the starting point and every office will have a digital tablet that controls all the doors cameras and everything lighting everything can be pretty much controlled from here and it is very Advanced you know technology that I have started to install it we have already finished the camera system and you can drive by we have finished the panel that is right by the entrance door that scans you as soon as you approach the door and now we're starting to do the tablets in each office and so that system that system will the timer that turns off the lights correct it it's however I set it up I can even set it up then when the Last Tenant leaves because as each tenant so when the Last Tenant leaves they put on their tablet so they click lock so I it can even recognize that once all the offices are locked it clicks the timer it's you can customize on however you like you can put a timer natural regular timer from this time to this time it can it can it can even go based on when the sun set you know however you set it up it's so I'm I'm convinced thank you that sounds good not too good job on that one I'm trying to make it nice so know s good I think that that's a long way of saying you'd be complying with the sorryy mayor yeah just a I think there's a typo I just want to say for the record I think I like the sign the Dimensions that are shown in a sign are the actuality not the comments I think the comment says 8ot wooden post cut to 9 foot I don't know if that's possible these look like seven foot post and they have plastic so you see that third comment down the third com on the left side yeah those are seven foot seven foot posts when they're cut make sense well I want on that third comment I want to know how you cut an 8ot post to 9 ft I'm I you know I'm I used to be a carpenter and I don't know how to do that yeah it's the it's the opposite I you know just the record yeah no that's great that's a good good catch we'll just need that correct you do it on your tablet of course your ta I'm sorry so how so how tall are the post going to be my apologies so there should be seven so from 8 to S that's that's how it should be not to post are going to be 7 feet tall correct correct okay great Mr sand at the last time we saw you I suggested that the sign that you were proposing was nothing more or less than a vanity sign it had nothing at all to do with readability or utility because no car passing by would be able to read the lettering and at the time someone stated and I don't recall who and I don't have the old drawings with me but someone stated that those letters would be 3 in high I now I have looked at your drawing your current drawing and scaled it off and I compute that these letters shown here are 2 and a/4 in high which makes the lettering even smaller than what we saw the last time and my now do you who's got that white sample how are you arriving at that I scaled it off how do you scale it it if this is with a calculator the way how this is put here is that it's taken from a PDF that I'm sending to the engineer and just put here this is based in scale I don't think this is B scale if this is 44 in and this and and you can get a me a reading you can measure this you can measure this you can compute the ratio it works out to 2 and 1/4 in now this piece of plastic is 2 in and so the lettering would be this High maybe a quarter of an inch higher than this and you're going to read lettering this high at 40 m an hour driving past oh and there are 12 of these that you want to read if you're looking for something in particular cuz the the one you're looking for is going to be the last one on the right hand side at the bottom all right hold on hold on I'm going to challenge you on this those slats are all 4 in high correct M correct those SLS are 4 and 1/2 in Yeah by scale 4 in okay that that's what they're specified at 4 in okay now is this drawing a direct translation of the PDF plan for this or is this a representation because you could certainly go higher than two inches yeah this is just you got so the design team pretty much puts something together for us to have a visual right so we go again the size of the Tex to make the size of the text however you want it the text is variable within the 4 in so so you could probably 3 and2 in three and a half inches with a quarter of no problem at all what you want to do mate I ask that I ask that a professional sign designer look at the federal standards for signage on roads on highways and and come up with a drawing that meets the federal standards for signage we went through this a few years ago uh when the chamber of Commerce was proposing signage for certain businesses on the main roads and we discovered that the uh the requirements for lettering on signage if you're going to do it properly and I have to tell you most of the signs in town don't do it properly but it makes the lettering so big that the sign is unreasonably large how was the lettering on the sign that you went and looked at up the other end of Valley Road did you measure the yeah it was like so I I gave them the same measurements to to to them and believe it or not actually their their sign is two and a quarter their two two inch and a quarter each letter on on the one where and no one can read that sign as they go past as a matter of fact at least one person in this room didn't even know the sign existed the colors are very are like these colors are easier to read because you have black on on white the they have color so they have brake their coloring is very hard to see if you're driving at 40 mil an hour so you're saying there's a sharper contrast that allows you to read the signs of what you're proposing correct and we also know that some uh businesses will have longer names than others so you may have a different size font on corre on the on the signage but if you have a 4 in tall slat that's what I'm reading here right 4 in slat youly put a 3in letter in there font I don't know how many letters acoss but you could start there and if you have a larger company with a longer name a law firm or something you're obvious going have to go to a smaller correct so um while I appreciate Mr Sandow's uh spirited um dialect there uh I think with a 4-in slat with a 3-in or something appropriate to that is going to be suitable perfect if you if you want an example of what this will look like look at the old the sign in front of the old library which is also a multi tenant office building it happens that there's only one tenant in there now and it's a fairly large sign with only one tenant strip on it but you can't read that unless you stop your car how how are those slats attached are they replaceable the they're replaceable yeah they're uh they have a for for ribbon for screws pretty much okay would there ever be a case where you would uh have slats that cover two spaces could be I don't foresee it but it could be yeah like could you I could have a u one office that would let's say would have a longer name like a low firm that sometimes they put two names and they'll put it together like so they'll take the two two slots and they'll combine it together right could be D Esquire janeo correct principles so there's 16 offices and you've got 12 slats cor so there's 16 Suites okay there's 16 doors the the M there so the way how the building is designed it can literally be turned into one office so each each office connects with each other MH and the previous owner they it closed those doors with just a piece of plywood so that's going to that's going to change and have a proper but the majority now the a good portion of the offices there's larger so realistically right now I believe right now there's 10 tenants or 12 tenants 12 tenants they're right now and I don't foresee having more than 12 tenants if I do have more than 12 tenants they're so small offices that I don't even think they care about having a name on uh so so what you're saying is you're not planning to have more than 12 on the on board I would actually like to have less okay preferably okay I my my goal my goal in the future for that building is not to have more than six tenants my goal so so a condition would be not to have more than 12 slats on the board or do it needs to do we're arguing for you because now we're saying sign should be bigger than what we permit we discussed I mean in the same time I don't want to put a billboard it's better than what you got today correct it's so just let you do what you need to do in the way you want to do it this we're talking about the size of the sign that's all we're talking about what goes in the sign as long as the address is clear and a colonial professional CH from par is clear that's what people are going to gravitate to and they go oh look there's good now person still there I would say one last thing though is um we're talking that we're in any case um black text correct right no colored text no colors no okay us the the letter from Liz says 16 units 13 tenants does that need to be updated if he's stipulating that there's only 10 I it's just it's just a review memo I don't think that necessarily needs to be revised okay I mean he's he's testified that there's 12 so you know it's it's more of just a but yeah house understand but it this way again the the the building is going through changes I have like for example I had uh the gentleman that's Network integration that uh three months ago he asked me for a lease and then two months ago he took all his equipment out and a month ago I contact I'm like and he still pays the rent and and now he said well business is not going well I might shut it down so these are small offices that can like I I have another office that um it is it is they're they're two parents and their son is autistic and what he does is it's called Alex basket what what what they do is that they put baskets for the holiday together and what they do is that there's 20 30 families around the the area that they have autistic kids and they get them together to put these baskets you know together but for example something like that is seasonal so they they rent a small space just so they can do that that's not going to go on the sign and normally I give that to them I don't even charge them they actually do it for know it's for free you know but I give them whatever space I have a vill I'm like okay I have this office here do do it here normally they use it for three months so that's one example so we're not going to see Spirit Halloween show I was just thinking the same thing no it was more of just making sure that if there's 16 spaces and you've got 12 slats right it do you actually need more was where I was going with the question definitely B on the review definitely the real estate is the real estate once you have it that's the real estate you get I think I think what the board is trying to imply is that you know save you the trip of having to come back if you wanted it will not be more than 12 I I am more than certain well to put a finer point on it regardless of how many Suites he has occupied he's got 12 slots on this sign right if gets a tenant that comes in who's tenant number 13 He will communicate to him no you cannot hang your own little sign off the bottom right yes concerned with don't don't make it bigger than what it is this is it how you want to design it let you be you good I'm good I'm not voting so any other you very vocal um any other questions comments concerns regarding this applicant and what's been proposed oh looks great no Good Very can I just hit a couple points Mr sh give me one sec I just want to make sure everything just just summarize everything well this is partially my summary partially just doing some housekeeping um housekeeping first and then summary it's kind of a combination okay so we got I just want to so so we established that the the materials are going to be out of um made out of wood I'm just kind of hitting lizz's memo on some of the high points um or they're going to have the wood like appearance So you you're not deviating from that standard um your lighting is going to be compliant with the requirements of the ordinance um pass that one it's a and and you did stipulate you'd be complying with all the design standards for the sign right so that's good um talk about the site triangles um you guys are going to get that certification well you're going to provide us with that that statement from the county that it's not violating their site triangle issue so that kind of resolves that issue whether or not you needed a variance on that point um one other thing Liz and I talked about I don't know if this is even really necessary but I'll throw it out there uh we floated a condition that um we'd have the board engineer review and confirm that no site triangles would be negatively impacted and if they would be the sign would be relocated so as long as it's at least 10 ft from the minimum setback is is that are you guys okay with doing that if having the engineer board engineer take a look at it too uh you want that from our engineer that there no that would be a condition that our board engineer would review it you know take is it's already 10 and a half ft back right right signed by engineer okay all right as long as long as you're okay with the county you know yeah triangle requirements I don't think it's necessary discuss it any we'll get that right and then um I believe you just mentioned at the last hearing you were going to be locating a sign another sign like in the building with all the tenants on that's inside that's inside so that's not outside we don't have to worry about okay just wanted to make sure because the buildings are are Nam sweet there was talk about it as we walked up to the building corre but it's but it's internal it's intern okay so we don't need to worry about it for okay great um okay so that's all I have so you do you want to do a quick summary yeah so applicant here is just seeking it's very simple application just uh minor s plan approval for this new sign and one bulk variance to permit a uh maximum sign area or to permit a sign area of 20 feet or 20 square feet where 10 ft is the Jesus I can't talk on 10 s feet is the maximum permitted size of a ground sign they're proposing 20 as far as conditions go um the applicant indicated that they would be complying with all the design standards set Bo in section 1551 of the ordinance um they're going to [Applause] be through my rest of my make sure there wer any other conditions yeah we would be getting a applicant would be providing a statement from the county that the uh sign in its proposed location compes complies with their site triangle requirements or sight line requirements I should say one of the other um they're going to comply with the ordinances requirements as it pertains to shutting off lights uh at a certain time 30 minutes after business close that's through a managed software right right and then I think that was it because a lot of the the stuff is like the removing of the existing signs that's on the site plan so they're kind of held to that already um if there's something I'm leaving out please let me know I don't I think you have it okay all right so I can think that's it anything further from either of you I just that's the season of giving and love so please thing is a simple application because they always have their not with this board there's not so fair enough all right anything else from the members hearing none and we'll note that there are no members of the public Sor questions or public closing that thank you all right we're good on that front all right um have a motion please so moved second motion to approve with all the stipulated two conditions condition corre motion made by Deputy Mayor lavender and seconded by Mr malinowski so I will take the role Deputy Mayor lavender yes Mr malinowski yes Mr hands can't he can't vote sorry oh he can't vote okay he's not voting that's right okay Mr alala yes Mr sand I think disagree with the notion of making this into an unreadable vanity sign but I'm going to vote Yes anyway right you and vice chairman Johns congratulations yes thank you congratulations thank you very much you very much Happy Holidays thank you and good luck okay moving on to uh Point number nine we have old business new business do we have any old business to discuss take a look at this any new business this our last meeting of the year right this is the last meeting of the year um I do have a couple things I do want to say at this time um Mr Sandow and Mr melosi will not be joining us in 2025 so I would like to thank them personally for their service to the community the years of dedication the volunteerism the countless hours at the same rate of zero um I want to thank you for um the experience that you've brought to this this board I've learned a lot from the both of you um I hope to emulate the knowledge that you brought uh so with that I would like to say thank you I think there are also other accolades uh U that we should note here I think Mr MOSI your work with the Boy Scouts so thank you for being the leader and getting our next round of leaders um and I hope talking to them about being on a planning board somewhere um Mr sandal although you and I have not always agreed on many topics I always uh um appreciated your view um you brought a lot to this you have a wealth of knowledge uh we hope to continue to tap into that in the future your work uh also with the Commerce and various other groups have been noted so uh i' would like Tok you as well and I don't know if anyone else would like to say anything yeah I'll say something um you know getting that Master Plan done last year was a superhuman effort and how many years did it take 10 years yeah and uh yeah yeah I think Dennis should get a Purple Heart yeah and the Congressional Medal of Honor for all the work that he did on that indeed it really it really was um special yeah yep agreed and I'll just Echo any sentiments from both of you and thank Dennis as well and Tom and Dennis in particular for the guidance and interest over the years so do we all do and I'm sure the interest won't stop well I'm hoping he won't come to to public sessions anymore sit next to Chuck but thank you Dennis for everything sincerely I would I would love to add it's been a pleasure with working with both both of you and I would especially like to add that when residents come in for zoning questions and questions in our office um I always tell them if you want to know anything about this town you go to Dennis Sandow because Dennis is the most no knowledgeable individual about L Hill Township and his passion and and uh knowledge is unmatch Dennis i' Echo Deb sentiments I know I've only kind of been covering the sport for about a year now but you know it's a pleasure working with both of you guys and wish you both the best of luck I just want to say it's been my pleasure working with this board and all previous boards and I wish everybody here continued success as a board and in your personal lives thank you thank you don't be strangers all right um one other thing I just want to give a shout out uh I want to give a shout out to our New Jersey National Guard the 44th uh infantry combat uh battalion especially the 102nd C Unit uh over the past couple of weeks um they have been finishing up their 9 Monon deployment in the Middle East so they were in Jordan Iraq and Syria a lot of them have come home already I'm waiting for my son to come home uh so hopefully he'll be home soon uh but I want to thank all the New Jersey National Guard men and women who were out on this deployment there was 1500 of them i w i I wish them a safe journey home to their loved ones uh home for the holidays and just a big thank you for your service to uh to our country amen thank you for that thank you and with that any other business hearing none can I have a motion to adjourn so moved so second and all in favor all well