e e e e e e e e e e e [Music] all right we're on the air I hereby declare that the uh regular meeting of May 7th 2024 of the the Zoning Board of adjustment is hereby called to order call to order and statement of compliance adequate notice of this excuse me excuse me adequate notice of this meeting SL hearing has been uh provided by posting a copy of the public meeting SL hearing dates on Municipal bulletin board and website by sending a copy to the echo Sentinel and Courier News newspapers and by filing a copy with the municipal clerk standard board procedures any hearing conducted by the board is a quasa Judicial proceeding any questions or comments must be limited to issues that are relevant to what the board May legally consider in reaching a decision and decorum appropriate to judicial hearing must be maintained at all times meeting cut off announcement is made that as a matter of procedure it is the intention of the Zoning Board of adjustment not to continue any matter past 10:30 p.m. at any regular or special meeting SL hearing of the board unless a motion is passed by the members then present to extend the meeting SL hearing to a later specified cutof time electronic devices all in attendant are pleased asked to mute cell phones or any electronic devices as to not interrupt the proceedings Tom would you lead us in Pledge of Allegiance please gladly allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible liberty and justice for all thank you sorry that bow call please yes Mr ronio here M Brenan here Mr G Gan noas is excused this evening Mr Flatley here Mr Rosenberg here Mr Watts here miss Collins is excused this evening Vice chairman Groff here chairman G here chairman we have a quorum okay so uh the next report of business is we have to vote on carrying the minor sight plan block 13006 lot 14.01 Zone Zer known as 331 Elm Street application number 24-3 Z CPM Associates AKA The Uncommon thread applicant proposes to ex man the existing parking lot and create a new playground area I understand that even though they were listed tonight uh they're going to be uh uh supposed to be carried to the 21st if not beyond that but we're going to for now we're doing the 21st do I hear a motion to carry them to the 21st Mr chairman if I if I could just real back before the board VES on that I I'll just note um I did review the applicant's notice for this application while the content I found to be sufficient and I've also found it sufficient as to its publication Chris microphone oh is it not on no but you're it's very hard to hear you I can't hear oh my god wow that is loud okay my apologies so as I was saying I reviewed the applicant's notice for this application I found it sufficient as to its content however it was not properly served though was published on time um I believe uh per applicant Council uh there are a few additional properties that need to be notified of these proceedings so while further publication notice won't be required and we also won't require them to Reen notify the people who've already received notice they will have to however provide notice to the people that they didn't already notify who they will and they presumably they'll have that done by the board's next meeting which I believe is May 21st uh 2024 so that is uh that's the gist of the situation Mr chairman just wanted to explain that for everybody's edification thank you okay with that explanation do I hear to carry the uh minor site plan for Elm Street to May 21st so moved I second second will call all no all in favor I okay all any opposed okay it carries that will be uh 7:30 here at the municipal building just so it's clear thank you just want to point that so they do need further notice in some case correct just to with respect to certain Property Owners but otherwise the publication was fine and the people who already received notice already they were apprised of tonight and by virt of the voice announcement they're going to be they're therefore notified to come back in two weeks the that's if they watch this thr only tape exactly all right now the next one is bulk variances block 11602 lot 9 Zone R4 339 Mar Street application number 24- 01z Brandon coni and Betty llamas applicant proposes to construct a new single family family dwelling is the applicant here theant is here okay all right um do you have the legal yeah I'll just point out for the record Mr chairman I I deem both the content and timeliness of service of this application is notice to be sufficient to provide the board with jurisdiction over this case the notice was sent owners of properties within 200t of the subject property on April 26 2024 and also published in the Echo Sentinel on April 25th 2024 both more than 10 days in advance of tonight's hearing and as I said that's what gives the board your over this case okay would you swear in uh our experts and their witness please sure and and their expert saring everybody sure right just uh just bill from as far as professionals going yes as far as professionals yes all great could you all please uh raise your right hand do do you all swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to provide will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth so help you God I do all right great thank you okay and for the record Bill wasn't miked but he did say I do uh so what what do we have tonight so good evening Mr chair members of the board board professionals Frederick Elli post poolik on behalf of the applicants Brendan conord and Betty yamos uh this is regarding 339 Mars street block 11602 lot 9 located in your R4 Zone uh the applicants are seeking bulk variance approval from the board in order to replace their home uh which sadly was destroyed by fire a couple years ago uh they are replacing it with a extremely similar sized home as ually on the same footprint uh albeit a foot over so that we can eliminate what was a pre-existing sidey yard setback non-conformity uh we are also reducing uh existing excess impervious coverage um by 2% we're taking from approximately 42 down to 40 uh still non-compliant and we'll still need a variance for that but we are improving the situation uh bulk variances that we're going to need and these are essentially all pre-existing but since the home needs to be removed to entirely uh we revert back to needing variances for all the existing non-conformities so specifically we have a lot area of 10,000 square ft where 20,000 ft is required uh we have a lot width of 5050 ft whereas 100 ft is required uh we have front yard of 20 ft where 50 is required uh 19.9 is existing so 0.1 foot we're making it a little better uh coverage as I indicated uh presently we have 42.2% uh we're taking it down to 40.2 but it's still excessive as 25 is all it's permitted in the zone again though bear in mind that this lot is only half of what it should be in terms of lot area so your uh previous coverage if we had a fully conforming lot would be would be fine actually uh we have several accessory structures on the property uh which do have bulk issues and we're seeking um variances after the fact so to speak to deal with those from a housekeeping perspective uh we have a garage sidey yard setback uh of 4.2 feet where 10 is required uh we have sheds with uh sidey yard setbacks of 5.1 and 3.9 again 10 is required uh and we have rear yard setbacks for the sheds of 2.6 and 2.0 Feet Again where 10 is required so we have quite a few variances that we're seeking uh numerically uh but again this is all pre-existing situation uh and just because we need to replace the hel uh in entirely two witnesses this evening uh Brendan Conor the applicant uh will introduce himself and uh tell us essentially what they're doing and then Mr Hollow will give you the details of the uh variances uh from the site uh you have architectural plans in front of you there are no variances that relate to the design of the home itself uh so that's really just for your information uh if you have general questions Mr coni can probably address those but we won't have expert architectural testimony this evening nor do I think there'd be any reason we would need it so unless the board has questions for me Mr Cony you're going to be on so first would you just confirm your name and mailing address sure my name is Brendan Cony uh mailing address 339 Morris Street in Sterling yeah speak up because that mic has to pick you sure uh Brendan Cony 339 moris Street in Sterling thank you and uh you and your wife own the property in question is that correct yes we do and we've heard the tragedy that happened when exactly did that happen uh July 7th 2022 already and you and your family uh thankfully not physically that evening but you were residing in the home up until the fire is that correct yeah luckily we were on our last night of vacation in Wildwood but we got the call from our neighbor and it's been determined that the house should be replaced as opposed to trying to is that correct yeah uh foundation and entire home I'm going to show you actually I have a copy in front of you sure the architectural plans that were submitted and I just want you to confirm for the board that essentially those are the plans that are going to be implemented and constructed on the site yes uh it's going to be in the same footprint um just basically uh a basic layout just to replace uh our bedroom and the two CH kill children's bedrooms um so it's a three-bedroom home yeah and is that replacing a three-bedroom home yeah basically it's a three bedroom we had three bedrooms um I think it adds a half bath or it adds a bathroom on the first floor we had two bathrooms in the home prior and now it's two and half yeah yeah I believe it is cuz my wife doesn't really want a tub downstairs so it's more than likely going to be a powder room but that's what it shows on the plan yeah okay and just to be clear the two sheds the swimming pool the garage all of those were in existence on the site when you purchased the home is that correct yeah when we bought it everything basically everything on the property was as is sheds and the whole pool area and when did you buy property uh let's see we closed on July 2nd 2019 okay and you mentioned children how many children do you have I have a son uh who's nine and a daughter who's four we just got in before she was born in September of that year and before the covid scene so we just got into town in time all right I actually have no further question question from Mr Cony Mr Hollow is going to do most of the Heavy R thing okay so before we move on does any board member have uh questions for the applicant I have one question yes go ahead uh I'm assuming that other than the main structure none of the other structures were damaged by the fire correct correct so they're all remaining as is yeah uh the the yard's narrow but it's deep so pretty much everything was luckily away okay that's my only question you mentioned there was damage to the foundation uh not damage to the foundation as much as uh when the engineers looked at it they deemed that I guess um uh the silvas owned the house originally they owned the dry cleaners uh over by the Tru Store originally so what we were told by the Builder who originally looked at it who was going to do a stick build that was far more involved um they said that at this point with the house being that old and uh the foot things never really checked or properly attached that he wouldn't be in good conscience to put a house on that you know especially that's that's where are going to excavate everything and put a new new footing Foundation correct called modern construction correct we would have liked to not have torn the whole thing to Pieces but you know whatever is the most safe approach is this going to have a basement or is it on a SL a basement you're not changing anything to do with the pool no okay might put a new liner inent event it's kind of worn out talk into the mic sorry you might put a new liner in eventually but no nothing in the backyard um everything's going to stay as it was we don't mind if you don't look at us because you have to uh any other questions okay um any questions from the uh audience concerning the testimony of this applicant okay hearing none wait I do have another question oh oh I'm going to close it to the public okay close it to the public okay I have another question for you uh currently you have two sheds do you know if they were previously uh granted any were you just I'm not sure really no I don't know I just know that when we moved in um one had like lawn mowers and stuff and the other one was just basically basic storage okay but your intent is to keep both of those sheds yeah i' I'd like to cuz it keeps the you know lawnmowers and gas stuff away from the G where the kids are what about the garage what's going to happen with that uh it's going to remain I still have my 71 Beetle from high schools in there so thank God that didn't get torched yeah so that's that's now that we've been in kind of displaced my wife has gotten used to having her car in a garage so that garage has to stay by all means if that's okay is a garage structurally sound yeah yeah the garage was unaffected it's separated no but I mean it didn't have any structural problems with it preexisting no it's fine it's older but it's there's nothing wrong with it yeah okay any other questions to the oant no okay next witness Mr Hollows you're up I I don't assume our experts have any questions for the just one actually one question I had was what is the situation with the garden in the back behind the pool it's just a basic garden with a chicken chicken wire so is that how high is the CU I was looking I'm 6 foot it's up to my nose or mouth I'm 6'2 so okay so it's it's really enclosed yeah I have to like bend down to get in there they were probably very short but it's open to the rain and everything but it's just enclosed with chicken wire to keep the birds out or at least you think you're keeping the animals out most most we have a good enough bumper crop from the couple years that grown there that we we can afford to feed the woodchucks and stuff can have mine to sleep wait Liz is there any concern keeping that it's not are was just confused in the photographs because it it seemed taller than I anticipated and I was just trying to understand it so it's really not a structure it's just a Fen Ina yeah it's like a it's they just have um like a basic box with chicken wire attached to the top oh there's really not much of a structure to it okay and and to be honest with you um I I would like to keep the garden obviously but in another 10 or 15 years as I have time and the kids get older I'd like to redesign it a little bit better okay but you know other than letting all the rain in it it doesn't stop any rain flow which just gives a safe haven for the tomatoes to be in actually actually just because Liz brought it up it reminded me that I need to ask uh the photographs that were submitted Fred I'm assuming you took these uh yeah I took them personally shortly before the application was filed they portray what I saw when I took them and they still accurately portray the property I figured as much for you have a second career going if you sincerely doubt that yes I think you're going to have to yeah we should get at least two of those and it's flashing red again is it yeah all right then I got to change the batteries all I just happen to see that B I know you don't like to listen to lawyers but what am I supposed to be I don't know good question do we have an extra mic we can put down there the one that some that's on the deis is it long enough cord um I don't know no I think you'll need it's long enough Jessica and Rand don't give them yours but is there one an extra one there no there's not an extra one oh crap you take this one I don't know where we plug it into oh then you don't have one then it's got a one foot cord so oh that's no good that's no go nowhere you can come stand here if you want you guys sh not work we we could yeah but the problem is where do I plug that one in plug it all right do we have a plug up here I make a motion that we fix the microphones in this here I make a motion that you talk to your governing body about that I definitely will no one done that yet I do all the time I think it's in this year's budget ridiculous Jerry it's in this year's budget good I have no control over got a new committee com let's get it out of the budget into the room into the room yeah please all right go ahead visually so you H just even though you've been here times before yes are you still licensed and qualified I am good you're an expert just so you get a visual of where this property is it's on mois Street between Maine and paic would be over off the off the drawing a little bit it's a 50 foot by 100 by 200t deep and it contains 10,000 sare ft it's known as lot nine block 11602 and just kind of give you an idea for some reason um our adjoining property to the west and the houses going towards Main Avenue are closer to moris Street when you go the other direction toward P those houses are back at the 50-ft setback I I don't know why that is maybe there's a a little bit older we we're built with different standards at that time but it it's just that's the way they are and we line up streetscape wise this house lines up with what's there I'm going to go to sheet two these are the plans been submitted corre that's correct this is the sheet two of three of the drawings that you have this is the existing conditions drawing which shows the footprint of the house that's going to be removed the PVE driveway is on the Westerly side of the property you've got the pool behind the house you've got the garage at the end of the paved drive to the rear of the the property you've got the garden and the two sheds and just so that you get a feeling for the property Beyond us for the most part is a vacant lot it's a green Acres lot um so there's no house on it there's no house it is vacant the house has been removed there's been a few on the on that street that the where the houses have been removed this is one on the North side I think it's the only one on the North side but it's right behind our property our subject property then how does the property drain as it goes from North from Mo Street back to the south towards Valley Road we have a m slope basically I would call it mild gets a little bit I won't say steep but a little bit uh a little bit more slope when you get back by the garden and the sheds and then it drops off somewhat when you get back to that vacant lot and the flood plane is not on our property and we have no steep slopes so we we have no critical areas on the subject property but beyond us um there are some critical areas is it fair to say that the drainage goes out into the Green Acres yeah yeah yeah and and what's not really shown on here is there's a a large stand of trees that are I would say they're probably on the adjoining property since the fence is is only 2 and A2 ft away from the property line but when you're out there at the site this is h a stand of trees and then the rest of the lot is the vacant lot is lawn and I have seen the township go in there occasionally and cut the grass when it gets a little bit higher and and Fred had indicated to you that there pretty much everything is a variance here our lot width our lot area uh the distance the pool is supposed to be 20 ft off the property line it's not 20 ft off the proper line I think the closest it's 14 ft on one side and 17 on the other The Sheds are uh just a couple of feet off the property line themselves and the house right now that the closest part is at 8.3 we're just going to move that well you'll see that we'll move that house up a little bit but the the drive main word is yeah what I have done oh you want to mark that uh A1 which sheet is that it is it is sheet three of three it's just colorized what's today's date 574 thank you and you can see the the footprint of the house is a little bit different but but really it's on the same location we just put it back at 20 ft just surveyor thing to make it an even number somebody goes out there and Stakes it out later on when the other house is removed that that makes life a little bit easier we're going to hold the 10- foot side yard setback where it was 8.3 um we still have the driveway we'll go down to the garage the pool will remain where it is the sheds will remain where they are the garden it will be will not be removed the other area you see some lawn but probably the reason why we have a little less impervious coverage is because the previous house had a a side entrance on the house and it came out it had a little w walk way out to the front had a walkway to the back and there was a little area maybe you called a patio or something at that area there's one thing that um spoke to Brendan tonight about that would probably look to make a change on this plan it would be to we tried to utilize some of the existing walk when we made the walkway from the the door to the rear will be um will come out the rear of the building and then it will we were going to use part of the existing walkway I think really Common Sense tells me that we should really just go straight we'll move the gate over to closer to the garage and then just come straight out so that would reduce your coverage slightly yeah okay and then we'll just make a little uh tie into the garage on the other side I mean the driveway on the other side okay so we have cut so you taken that angle you're taking the corner off the corner it you know when you color it it looks a little it looks a little worse than it does when it's just black and black lines overweight and I think that makes a lot more sense to come straight out yeah and then the front will just be you we'll utilize the same walkway they'll have to do a little modification where the steps are and uh I think most likely the house will be same on the the same uh elevation is what's out there right now which is what well it's 2 uh 227.000 and how tall is the house let me see if I have a number here 28 29.5 29 say that in the mic please 29.5 thank you well do we need any kind of storm water treatment or no I think well what happens now with the house the um yeah a lot of the roof leaders come down to splashbox and then there's one that comes out of that side entrance that is piped somewhere I cannot find where that goes but the water we're not going to be changing any uh drainage patterns the water's going to go where it's been going for years and that's to the south towards Valley Road into that for the most part into that uh vacant lot the Green Acres lot so that lot basically absorbs the water coming off your lot yes and then again we have a good amount of there is some land I was some Landscaping along these property lines and um and then there'll be lawn inside too so a combination of what we have on site and then the fact that we're really not going to impact our neighbors to the South I think is a good thing in this case what's beyond the vacant lot what's beyond the vacant lot to the it's uh Mercer Street Mercer Street okay have Mercer and then Valley okay you mention that the PO set back is not comp either so should we have that as a housekeeping variant yes yes is he ready for questions if I anything further uh I just want to give you the numbers if you want those sure yes on to the to the actual pool on the east side is 15.5 on the west side is 14.1 and what it's supposed to be 20 20 okay so you okay any our experts you have any questions of theirs I do not no I don't okay board members any questions for the Mr Hollow yes go ahead so Mr Hollows um you mentioned that the current current water situation is the water runs off to uh the township property to the South correct okay that property to the South was purchased in our in our own flood mitigation program and that was done to uh to absorb just what you're talking about absorb water in flood events beyond that is Mercer Street um those homes there flood terribly I'm aware yeah you're very aware of that we all are so so um this house was originally constructed what year yeah almost 100 years ago not many people cared about the flood situation now we're all into the flood situation so it you know I'd like to hear more about mitigation on that property keeping as much water as we can on that property I know it's low Ling it's the 227 elevation it's one of the lowest Parts in town but when they originally built it it was one story now we're building a bigger building it's already you know it's already challenged the we understand that we're actually reducing the lot coverage understand that that's what I'm saying but you're also asking for variances so that's why I think it's proper for us as a board to ask for uh storm water remediation on the property rather than the pl just to let it flow off it's it's going to go somewhere my experience with Sterling the Sterling proper the downtown Sterling however you want to put it the soils aren't conduc of to doing U putting dry wells in or anything like that it's just going to you're going to fill them up one time and that's going to be it it's a it's a heavy clay soil in this area so I understand that stuff too personally I had to build a house and I didn't even need a drywall but I happened to be on the governing body at the time and I didn't want to go through the process of positioning the board that I didn't need a drywall which I didn't according to ordinance but we had a jackhammer shell to put a drywall in there's ways to do things there's there's other things there's swells there you can build um you know environmentally plants stuff like that that that can that can absorb some water there's something that could be done on the south end of that property beyond the pool that's that's in my opinion I'd like to hear expert opinions on that but I'd like to see if we can retain water there seage pits are great like you said they might not be as effective but they'll do something well they're not going in this Casa in this instance they're not going to do anything other than fill up one time and then the water's going to stay there there your testimony was you don't even know where some of the water's going there's that's not my testimony my testimony goes from north to south I thought there was a box or something no there's a roof leader that comes down on the side of the house that's piped and the only it's not going to get piped uphill to mois street it's going to go down to the side is that going to be uh modified when the new house gets put in my inclination would be there would be Splash blocks at the Four Corners of the house cuz that's really where the um leaders would come down my apologies I misunderstood what you said I thought you said earlier you didn't know where that was leading to well yeah I I don't I couldn't point to where it actually discharges but logic would tell me that it discharg is somewhere in the backyard here interior to the property well how about how about this question in your professional opinion is there anything that can be done on this property that would address the concern that Mr ronio raised in terms of making sure that at least some of theall water doesn't leave the property and go elsewhere I really have to give that some thought as to what what could be done there maybe I could can we ask our our engineer for so there's Hydro analysis yeah well let let's get Jo's uh the proposal in front of us reduces coverage right right the house but I I I think what I think what we're concerned with is the fact that how can we keep the water from just running to the South and more of it on their property and more of it to to have a chance to absorb on their absorb on their property if that's possible there's limited opportunity to absorb water into the soils on the property and so the water that absorbs into the soils on the property only elevates the water table regionally in the area so it only exacerbates anybody else's basement issues local so you're saying by having it run to the South is the best thing if it's that close to the flood plane and they are reducing impervious coverage compared to existing uh this proposal in front of us will impact neighbors less than the home prior to the fire okay but with the property to the South also our our code standard our Benchmark is the threshold of minor not major um and so with that we look at the amount of disturbance which there's no change in rating okay no change in the patterns of who would be adversely impacted by a direct discharge um and then the reduction in perious coverage is an overall reduction in the runoff from the property while it be the Minimus uh there's an existing condition on the site it's well established as prior developed for can we get some dates on say the garage the pool those two improvements being added to the property would you say they were there for at least 10 years okay so we're talking pre storm water rules pre standards essentially the existing development intensity of the property is stable and being reduced Okay so we we can't aside from rain barrels or other sstn devices for gray water reuse of say their Garden um I would always endorse and promote a resident to do something like that but it's going to be a smaller quantity it's not going to be a tangible uh reduction to what runs off the property but it's a positive way of using green infrastructure on the property in smaller rain events the property to the South that was vacated yes is will that absorb any runoff as as I mean it's it was purchased you said Green Acres is it green or blue Acres blue Acres blue Acres it's it's specifically purchased for that purpose to yeah to eliminate impervious coverage in and reduce the amount of runoff generator from it and provide the flood plane storage somewhat like a catch basin I mean it's it's the natural flood plane of of the river and um keeping development out of that regulated area okay it's a program that was offered to Residents yeah whose homes were persistently flooding flooding okay um 13 homes did that I have a question for the applicant uh so when uh yeah speak up so uh you might want to get that mic that would be good um have you noticed uh when you were living on the property prior to the fire in in a heavy rainstorm did you make any observation of the water uh running off your property in what direction or how much or the quantity uh we actually didn't have the immense runoff that a lot of our neighbors did um I guess wherever our property is it does have some slope to it but it's kind of on the crown of the neighborhood so uh we we really don't have anything accelerated um I would be in the backyard often with the pool in the summer just tending to it normally and I you know we we actually were here I think it was isaas was the one where downtown flooded yeah recently Ida I Ida Ida Ida yeah okay I knew it was one of the eyes one of the ones yeah so no I mean since we've been there um my wife and I had actually been content with the fact that we didn't get flooded with water and we didn't have a ton of it running so oh so you didn't notice any like streams running from the north to the south on your property or to that Southern Southern no I think generally because uh when they put the pool in however long ago they probably had to bring in uh soil to to do the pool and I guess because of the pool and the Privacy Factor the entire yard is ringed with hedge RS and trees and it's heavily planted uh with with seasonal and perennials so there's a lot of plant coverage on the property once spring Bloom comes so are you saying that the roots of those plants absorb some of that water I would say that the amount of Hedges trumpet vine plants uh established trees in the neighboring property they probably cut down a tremendous amount of runoff now when we first moved in there was probably a hundred years worth of black Blackberry Bramble in the property to the left of ours that was probably my biggest anger since we moved in because that slowed down a tremendous amount of runoff and it also provided like a privacy to the backyard that was unrivaled so no even with all of the Blackberry Bramble now I did notice and a it's like a race track on that Nextdoor property okay so a lot of that water once they took that Blackberry out but in our property no we we never saw any type of uh accelerated runoff um and in reality the garden's there too so I usually have the garden full of vegetables so that probably has to mitigate some of the runoff too okay so that'll catch the water coming from the a lot of it yeah okay all right thank you welcome like to continue to follow with our own engineer sure I just wanted him to tesy the existing that's great um so continuing on that we know that uh the difference in lot coverage has has gone down and that that we all know is the Minimus so that's going to be mentioned we understand that but continuing down the line of other options that might be available rain Gardens even though we're not going to get a huge move you know what I mean we're going to get something and in my opin every opportunity should be you know seized too uh to do any even little bits of mitigation what what is your professional opinion on a rain Garden on the south side of this property with swells or anything to you know to fill up a little bit of water whoa whoa what is that noise microphone know which one one okay go ahead I mean even if we do something with look by the way there's there's more than 400 ft of disturbance on the property right with the with the foundation coming out yeah right so isn't that our our limitation on the ordinance isn't that the question our limit is, 1500 ft of disturbance or increase of impervious surface so we're under the total disturbance threshold okay not the impervious cover increase because we're on a decrease okay so it's not required by ordinance but we can still we can still look into and expl this and ask for for think there's only one trigger one standard triggered by our minor development ordinance and that is to detain and infiltrate 4 in runoff for the increase of impervious coverage so if we take that negative value all at zero and multiply It Out by 4 in we have a yield from our code of zero storage required so by ordinance that's by law but now we also have the opportunity as a board to mitigate storm water runoff and I would and that's why I'm asking about rain Gardens and other such things that have an environmental approach you mention fire damage dwelling remains on the property today yes prior to the application being filed and today present and that dwelling the garage and the pool would date back to roughly the 70s all on the property dwelling almost a 100 years ago and the others were assuming at least to the 70s right prior existing zoning say the garage is before the 70s right so we understand needs to [Music] be existing non-conforming lawfully existing structures and impervious coverage to the best of our knowledge that's accurate we're so you're not SE seeking the variances anyway to be sa seeking the variance to codify the decrease essentially yeah um an ex this thing I I understand the concern yeah so I'm not asking for the legal requirement for it I'm asking about the technical you know aspects of it what what can be done and what would happen if a rain Garden put into that property I I think the rain Garden exists it exists as the existing vegetable Gard that's not required of the applicant and they could take out tomorrow right but there's also room beyond the vegetable Gard yeah and there's a flood plane um on another property I think the the homes to the South down gradient are more substantially affected by Regional development patterns that have influenced our state government to increase the flood plane by 3 feet in the last year um to reflect the more appropriate limits of the flood plane I'm sorry to be so persistent but I what I want to ask you is a direct question is I don't recommend any additional question would a rain Garden have any sort of flood water runoff mitigation no no no tangible it'd be a DI Minimus benefit to any adjacent properties most notably to the blue Acres conserved property directly to the South where the runoff goes to I don't think any of the adjacent properties to the blue Acres property there that may still be inhabited would see any tangible benefit from it okay thank you um any other questions from the board of their uh expert or our experts for that matter you any questions from the public uh of their expert or our expert no I'm hearing n from the public I'll close it um any other testimony that thing's uh blinking red again that the microphone just it's dead it's dead it's dead again yeah okay let's go around to Costco we have more microp just created a new committee for it so do you want this one no that's all right she'll change the batteries I feel like there should be a microphone doesn't me think because just rechargeable any the ones that just like a clip to your jacket have one new thank you all right good yes so we have no further Witnesses um I think it's very clearly a uh C1 hardship situation that we're dealing with we have a lot that is literally half the size of the required lot area uh and that affects just about everything uh we have improved the situation with regard to the sidey guard setback by eliminating that deficiency that the present home has uh albeit a small change we have improved the impervious coverage situation we've discussed the drainage uh implications of that uh and essentially everything else is is really housekeeping variances in order to uh document an existing condition uh that we wouldn't have except for the fact that the existing home has to be raised entirely uh as far as the negative criteria from the neighborhood's perspective from the town's perspective there's some improvement and certainly nothing that uh is being created by what's being done that would be detrimental in any way uh so we believe there are no negative criteria ramifications uh and the C1 positive uh criteria is there under C2 analysis uh might not be a huge benefit but there's a benefit to making it compliant on the side yards stb back there's a benefit to the town of I'll be a small change at least an improvement on the impervious coverage uh since there is no detriment that those benefits outweigh it so under both the C1 and a C2 uh these variances are appropriate and we'd appreciate that they be granted and we thank you for hearing us thank you real quick Mr chairman uh Fred uh are you guys would you guys be wanting to stipulate to the conditions in in Joe vo's memo May 6 2024 I counted three I didn't see any in Liz's memo might didn't think so Bill we okay on everything in Joe's Meo uh what what three extent of lock rating shall be limited to Restoration of existing drainage patterns yeah all proposed roof leaders for the new dwelling shall maintain same Al a drainage statement with proposed mitigation subject to review and approval board engineer will be required and then uh soil erosion and sediment control measures shall be put in place prior initiating okay sounds good they were test yep testified too but you might as well stipulate be clear yes and the change in the pattern of that walkway they're going to they're going to change that okay we'll make that a condition as well and we're going to add the uh swimming pool setback uh variances right as testified and you'll need a variance for the two sheds yeah mention yeah I'm only mentioning the pool specifically because that was not specifically not uh noticed for we have the magic language so we should be okay on that I just want to make sure the resolution ends up including it as well as the others sure than you okay I'll just write this without condition okay Jessica would you like like to start the deliberation sure um so thank you for your you know thoughtful presentation I think that you know you have certainly met the C1 criteria um and frankly I think you meet the C2 criteria for the reasons that your lawyer laid out you're essentially rebuilding the house that was already there um and it'll be an improvement for the neighborhood uh being Beyond you know just the fact that you're replacing a a burnt structure I think that you know you're improving the property generally and so that for that reason I'm in favor of the application Randle I'm in favor of it for the same exact reasons um you know I think it's a very thorough um application process and really laid it out for us and answered all the questions I think uh thoroughly so um thank you for for your time Jonathan um I agree the uh exceptional um saress and shallowness of this property and how this was uh set up prior to our obviously our current zoning regulations and and the things that uh the other structures that are existing on your property I I don't feel that there there is you know I think that those all fall within the C1 I think that the new I you know obviously having a burnt out structure or a vacant structure on the property uh doesn't serve the neighborhood any good and providing A New U more modern looking uh dwelling that pretty much you know as it seems will be essentially the same footprint if not smaller than the current uh dwelling and not seemingly you know be uh you know overbearing on the neighbors including the fact that I don't see any neighbors here who seem to have a problem with this I wouldn't have a problem voting yes and approving this application thank you I noticed that the uh level of nonconformity with the new building will be less than with the old building so that's a plus and plus the building is going to be an improvement in the neighborhood so I'm in favor of it Jerry um for reasons that uh my colleagues have already stated I'm in favor of it I although I express my disappointment um in not being able to at least have some flood water or storm water runoff mitigation I still think it's it's not going to be a detriment to the neighborhood it's going to be an improvement and I wish you luck in your new home thank you Tom uh if it weren't for the fire you wouldn't be here and so we apologize for that on the part of nature not our part glad that you're here thank you for doing the right things uh you have an undersized lot that is near a flood plane you have some pre pre-existing non-conformities that again like I said if Wen for the fire you wouldn't be here to discuss uh a new home is a wonderful thing it'll be great for you it'll great for your family and even for their neighbors in the town so uh I will be very much in favor of this I share the sentiments of my colleagues I noticed in these photographs here that building to the right seems to be quite large so you're you're really not keeping out of the neighborhood character because that that house was probably modified at some point also so you're probably one of the smaller houses on the street uh I I think based on the testimony of the applicants expert the r experts uh I think you've made matched you've met all the uh requirements for the variances uh there I don't see any detriment um based on the testimony of our ex of our engineer I think your water runoff problem is not a big a big issue because you have the rake and land behind you plus I I believe a lot of it is already absorbed onto your property with your garden and all the other Shrubbery that you have around there so I think you probably don't pose that much of a risk with and and it's going to be even less impervious coverage and uh a little bit uh tighter your property as far as that goes so I would also be in favor of it uh would you like to uh give us a little synopsis of your variance your I'll do my best resolution I'll do my best Mr chairman okay so I count 11 bulk variances being sought here let me know if I'm off base uh the first is for the front yard setback for the proposed dwelling 50ft there's a 50ft minimum and applicant's proposing 20 next is lot coverage ratio 25% is the maximum applicant proposes 40.2% lot area uh 20,000 squ ft is the minimum required applicant proposes 10,000 uh lot width 100 ft is the minimum applicant proposes 50 uh Westerly side yard setback for the detached garage accessory structure uh 10 ft is the minimum required applicant proposes 4.2 Westerly sidey yard setback for the larger shed on the property uh again 10 ft is the minimum required applicant proposes 5.1 easterly side yard setback for the smaller shed applicant proposes 3.9 where the minimum required is 10 next is another this one's a rear yard setback for the larger shed 10 ft is the minimum required applicant proposes 2.6 ft next is the rear yard setback for the smaller shed uh 10 ft is again the minimum applicant proposes uh 2.0 ft then 10 and 11 relate to the pool the first is for the easterly setback of the the pool applicant proposes 15.5 ft on the east side and then 14.1 on the west side and I believe the minimum required is 20 ft is that correct correct okay great and that's all I count and then as far as conditions go stipula to three conditions in our board engineer voes memo dated May 6 2024 and also a condition that the applicant would rework the existing walkway and move the gate to the pool area to the coincide with that to coincide with that to provide a straight path from the rear of the proposed dwelling to that gate and we revised the plans to revised the plans accordingly I just had one more VAR which was um the setback from the of the pool from the garage oh yes the PO I'm not sure I heard that I don't yeah no I didn't get that one okay so it it's less than six feet okay from the structure yeah the from between the right right okay and sorry if I missed it but don't we need a variance for the two sheds yes generally yes we do did yes variance for second for having two in yeah variance for the second shed first one doesn't need but then you need a variance for the setbacks of the sheds also it's all the size of one of the shed no side yard rear yard setbacks and there was a size for one of the sheds too right well one no one was one was compliant even though non compant right I have a quick question not to belabor things I don't think it matters to anything but the the cover page of the application for development has an incorrect address is that a problem it says 3.99 but it's 339 correct it's 339 okay it's not that's okay we know on the record it's 339 it's 339 339 okay that was a typographical thank you for catching that right no um and I'm sorry what was the distance between the the pool and the and the garage maybe I it's supposed to you scale that please it's supposed to be six feet six feet um minimum required is 10 no no no the minimum is six minimum is six it's less than and it's less than six okay can we quantify that we are he's checking oh he's doing oh sorry is he hiding behind the these okay that's what and while he's doing that then the other one that I missed was two sheds were only ones permitted right and then we didn't need one for the size of the one shed correct we do we do one the other okay so we're now 14 variances yes it's a record at least it's beond it'll never be a record because Sterling Hotel was like 49 you haven't held the record yet oh you know what it does not need one you know no okay sorry so um between the pool and the garage is um is 3.5 fet is that that's 3.5 between here and here yes okay and then the um the swimming pool is um 15.5 from the one no sorry 12.1 from one side and 14.1 from the other side it needs oh it's 12.1 It's 121 not 155 right yes it's 12.1 hold on go ahead yeah well one to yeah okay so that's all right so 17 so he's saying 17.1 and 15.5 and it needs what it needs to be 20 20 okay so that's a variance also for the you had them I think the numbers were just uh a little bit different okay East Side was 15.1 it's 15.5 15.5 East and the west side 17.1 17.1 where 20 is needed okay okay that might have been me Mis rating a four for my is that one is that one is that two those two two separate two sep right and then the oversized shed how large is that structure we got we got to nail it down than yeah got get hand little wer out this so we sum it up to the end that way we don't that's okay this is why we do this so we get everything right right I think you should I think to the conrete 120 okay I guess and what is and what's uh required or what's 100 Fe Max all right so that's all 14 variances okay that's it yes well that's because it is a small property that's right that's mainly because they zoned it for something else yeah and as they continue throughout the years yeah no longer conforms they would they would have had a build half the houses on that street if it can have okay are we done with those he there's some property behind you we are done um everybody happy with those variances guys yes we all same page okay good uh can I hear a motion to approve this application so moved second okay roll call Mr Rosenberg yes Vice chairman grov yes Mr ronal yes M Brennan yes Mr Flatley yes yes Mr Watts yes chairman GRE yes motion carries congratulations good luck with your new house luck thank you all very much Lu Lu don't forget to pay your taxes probably go up yeah 26 oh boy we seems like just two weeks [Music] ago let us know when you're ready for the second one we are ready uh I don't see the applicant sitting next on his way up okay Mr chairman and Chris uh just just a note since I was on vacation I did not note which board members were absent for the previous hearing I was okay so did you happen to watch the video for this okay you did not you did not I did not correct okay you will not so unfortunately and I apologize I forgot to remind you so you will not be able to vote on oh this is what everybody guys Jerry everybody was present for the last time not Tom Tom did you watch the tape yes I did okay okay okay okay okay did you did you do did he do a certification yet no but I will get it for him so you're okay but for the record you swear that you watched the T yes I watch the so just get him to sign that then unfortunately uh Randle you have to uh be quiet on this one sorry he can participate yeah yeah actually yeah you can participate but you can't vote right is that participate I can listen can I listen yeah but you really can't vote so you can't ask questions yeah no he can ask questions I was just teasing all right uh so this is the continuation of the uh BL variance carried from 41624 block 13010 I'm sorry one1 block 42 Zone R4 216 High Street application number 24- 04z GSD Estates LLC applicant proposes an addition to a single family residence applicant present applicant is present all right welome back two experts are present as well still under oath real quick before we start Mr vo is not under oath he wasn't here last time right right C sneaky I know I had to myself do you swear or affirm sir that you will that the testimony you're about to provide will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth so hope you got I do all right great thank you all right okay and as uh chairman G mentioned this matter is carried from uh the April 16th 2024 meeting we carried it by voice announcement at which back on the 16th I had mentioned that I found the notice to be sufficient so no further notice was required so just point that out for the record so Fred over to you my apologies for taking up your time okay so you know where we left off uh what would you like to uh advise us of as any changes or does the board want to recap of the variance relief or we're good yeah give us a little B just for the record it's 216 High Street block 13101 lot 42 in your R4 Zone uh we are uh proposing expansion of existing Cape Cod into a uh relatively modest uh two-story Colonial uh with now uh changes in the grading and so forth that'll be discussed in tonight's testimony uh the bulk variances that are required are for a front yard set pack to High Street um 41.9 or 41 to the roof for the proposed covered porch where 47 exists now and 50 is required uh Pine Street front yard setback uh is not changing but it's 8.7 ft where 30 is required uh both variants for a side yard setback uh to the left as you're facing from High Street 7.3% which is the existing condition 10 ft is required uh we have a variance for proposed detached garage being located within the Pine Street front yard setback it is still setback further than the home but it does not comply uh with the 30 foot setback requirement uh and we need an exception oh actually we're fixing this we did need an exception for parking uh needed 2.1 spaces we now have uh three uh two in the part in the driveway and one in the garage so that exception actually disappears we have three Witnesses already under oath uh applicants representative aove Shaw uh Bill Hollows and ran Johnson our architect so all three are still under oath I'm going to ask Brian to go first did you mention that you the um the coverage for the rear deck that you added the lot coverage uh yeah I'll actually confirm that with Mr holl I think you're right I think we do uh a little bit over coverage now correct that is correct just as a reminder at the first hearing uh the neighbors to the left uh and a representative of the neighbor to the rear uh did voice concerns um just to really boil it down the biggest concern was just that they thought it seem like too big a house for the neighborhood type of situation uh we have and Mr John still testified to this we have changed it somewhat uh We've reduced the height of it which is significant we've taken out Dormers uh Up on the Roof which will change the appearance uh to what could be deemed to appear as like a three and two and a half story now it's a straightforward two story um Mr Johnson will go into some more detail but we tried to address the neighbors concerns as best as we could uh and still maintain uh General concept of the house which is to as I said change it from a cape with insufficient Second Story to a full Colonial that has a full twostory so unless there's questions for me I'd like Mr Johnson to take over Brian you're still in good standing as an architect of the state of New Jersey I am okay you're still an expert and one second Mr chair if I may I'm going to pass out some copies of the new engineering plans just before I forget oh that's a good idea but I believe we received these more than 10 days in advance of tonight correct not no oh these okay so we'll mark them as an ex are those those are those ones I gave you Fred those were for 1893 what am I this is what I have just looking ahead you're getting confused sorry Ron I [Laughter] tried okay that's what I thought I do believe the board has all the updated right Mr Johnson before I make bigger full of you please take over the Chang sure thank you um so we we took back the feedback we got from both the neighbors and the board and we tried to incorporate uh the feedback that we got as best as we could uh a few changes that we've made uh we'll start with the the floor plans uh and the basement previously we had a walk out basement going to what was the driveway uh we are uh going to replace that door with a window uh we're going to in uh fill that with uh and Mr holl will speak to the grading plan but and I'll show you in the elevation we're going to fill that depression that was the driveway essentially make the the um the front yard more or less uh level there that's pretty other than that the basement plant is pretty much the same on the first floor uh there was conversation about uh why the the bath the there was a bathtub on the first floor uh rather than on the second that was an existing condition uh but after discussing it we removed the tub and in doing so we were able to provide a longer kitchen counter on a relatively small kitchen uh and then turn the the existing bath full bathroom on the first floor into a half bath uh and then give that space to the kitchen uh for additional counter space towards the rear uh a change that we made we added a 12x1 12 deck uh there was a conversation about um you know when people are entertaining or perhaps you know uh cooking they might want to eat outside and so that the deck is now directly off the kitchen uh which will also be the path that take you to the detached garage on the second floor uh a change that we made previously we had two bathrooms upstairs uh that one of the bathrooms has been removed so we have a single bathroom single full bathroom upstairs with a double sink um and then in addition the laundry and the washer and dryer that were down in the basement uh we moved them up to the second floor in a to a laundry closet between bedrooms uh two and three and in the space where the second bathroom was we have a Walkin closet for bedroom one we from three and a half baths to two and a half it uh it was yes so we went from actually Four bats to two and a half four four two and half yeah yep [Applause] oops another concern that was raised was about the height of the house in relation to the the neighborhood we reduce the height of the ridge by 2 ft um and in the process of doing so by changing the slope of the roof to a more shallow roof we eliminated the dormers on the on the attic level which could give the appearance of a third floor even though it was it was the Attic So in doing so also in in addition this is about approximately where the existing driveway is so that will be filled in with with a new grade and Mr H will speak to the grading plan on that um so the current ly the the existing roof Ridge of the existing house uh facing lot 39 on the left is 20t 10 in the new roof Ridge would be 24t 10 in so it's 4 feet higher than the existing roof the for the addition facing the the L shape heading towards the rear yard that roof is actually a little bit lower than the uh the main roof and it ties into it so it's probably uh approximately I don't know maybe about 6 in lower than that on the elevation you can see we have the the deck that we we spoke of for for outside area and then that also ties into the the walkway that will go to the detached garage and so what we've we've tried to do in terms of the elevation uh in feedback is to um have a have a functional full story on the on the on the second floor uh because the right now the the half story is under a slope roof but then to the greatest extent possible uh we reduced the slope to a I believe it's a a four on 4 on 12 slope that's pretty much the narrowest uh uh slope you can get on a on a roof without having to worry about water starting to back up underneath the roof shingles in terms of the architecture I believe those are the the main changes that were were made just for the record Where Do We Stand now with height there was never a height requirement or height variance required but where do we stand now with the regrading so the the height so basically we added approximately 4 feet to the to the to the ridge to the the roof but we also Mr H can speak to the exact fill but we added more or less very very similar amount to the fill that that's in here so in terms of the overall Building height per ordinance it's it's roughly the same um but in terms of the the height of the of the of the house facing lot 39 it would be 24t 10 in and then as the grade slopes away towards Pine Street so it's going down that way The Ridge at at the maximum height would be 268 and we are appro 2T lower from the perspective of the property correct yes we're two than last time we were two feet lower than last time yes nothing for Mr Johnson at this time um I don't see anything in here regarding the proposed garage what did I the garage is the same drawing as last time no change and what did we do for water abatement uh Mr holls will speak to the uh to this site plan on that um does our experts have any questions of that I do not board members questions for their architect I I have I have questions so um it was mentioned by your attorney um that there was some neighbors that uh had concerns over uh maybe not the size of the building but the look and feel of the building and the changing of the character of the neighborhood uh given what we talked about the size of the building on the small lot and the the lot that is on a corner and and all of those things that go into that when you change the design of the building um you took away the the most noticeable thing is you took away the Dormers and you talk about the the slope of the roof changing with the back of the house that is I'm sorry the side of the house that is facing uh the neighbors that comp that shouldn't say that commented last time what's changed in that regard we talked about there was a jog in the construction and one part was closer to their property than another part um what what has changed in that so so this is the elevation facing lot 39 uh previously the last time that um you saw it the ridge was higher it was about 2 feet higher and then we had Dormers that would would have an additional volume here in addition to that we had the roof wrap around partially here and here aesthetically which created an additional volume facing lot 39 those have all been removed uh We've and what we've done is uh basically establish the minimum slope that's reasonable for water drainage for asphalt shingles in terms of the size of the structure though the height it's called the height the height to the peak of the roof above the window that's sort of in the middle of that uh that facade there yes what has changed in that regard that is now 24 10 where previously it was approximately 20610 okay that's the biggest change the noticeable change there and the additional facade treatments that we creating additional volume towards lot 39 okay thank you one more question in your whole project did you ever consider rotating the building so that the entrance is on Pine Street and then give you more room to spread out we're staying on the footprint of the existing building so the we're we're not changing um the foundations or anything like that to change the you're talking about changing the entrance of the the building towards Pine Street more of a a longer building and and and not as close to the so the issue architecturally with that is well a couple things on the site plan you'll see that the Pine Street elevation has a steeper slope so it it's it's it would be a tough approach to get to the front of uh of the house from Pine Street uh also Pine Street is a narrower street so if you were to visit the house it would be difficult to I don't even know if it's it's allowed to park on Pine Street uh so guests would be approaching from High Street uh the then then people that live there more than likely would be approaching from the detached garage thank you any other questions from board members were you were you able to retain any attic space with the way that you revised the roof line so so the attic space the uh with the with the collar ties uh we probably have to the ridge to the underside of the ridge we probably have little under 4 feet and the collar ties would be coming underneath that structurally so you'd have to crawl around up there now um but but basically um there there you could you could have some some light storage basically um that's about it any other questions okay no questions for our exports okay questions from the public of their export yes come on up and grab the mic sorry we only have one sir I'll remind you questions only at this point comments later it was only one question will we still have an opportunity to say something after we hear the site plan yes name and address for the AL peepy 222 High Street thank you you have a question I do not that was my question will I still have an opportunity yes I'm sorry I thought you okay I misunderstood I thought you had a question for him thought too any other the other people have questions any questions any okay going once going twice close it to the public for questions everybody can still make comments all right um wait hold on one question reopen Lori Ros murki 32 Pine Street what is the amount of impervious coverage with the driveway with the building with the garage with the deck the impervious coverage would be Mr Hollows but I assume if yes Mr Hollow will be able to speak to them the point unfortunately everybody has their niche of expertise I'm sorry if I didn't ask now no you're right no no you well he's going to testify to that so you will get the yeah uh I have nothing further for Mr Johnson so I'd like Mr Hollow to step forward and you are still qualified from the last time yes license is still in good standing Mr holl it is okay just check thank from about a half hour Rec [Laughter] renewed would you please uh show us how the site has changed or the proposed site has changed inting the changes to the wait and we received this already Mr H that's colored version this is a this is a colored version you want to label the sheets that are color version yeah it's just this one you had the existing conditions and we up to A2 okay label that one A2 yeah three might as well knock off do you have I think you had other ones too do you want to knock them all out now as far as no the other one is actually A1 underneath it oh we already marked that yeah we talked about that one okay quite a bit oh yeah and since the last meeting I decided to make the drawing a 10 scale rather than 20 scale so it's a little bit larger and I think everybody can probably see it a little bit better thank you okay uh again this is sheet three of four it's the same drawing that you have all things we have done is uh colorized it and I'll start from High Street the changes that we actually made to the drawing we're going to remove the retaining walls that were on either side of the driveway we're going to fill that area in we're going to tie our Contours into the property line to the West lot 39 we'll we'll tie those in a little bit onto our property not onto their property but they'll you know it'll be a seamless transition from lot 39 to our subject property and then we'll connect into the Contours on the other side of the house um we will add the walkway that we have that came down to the drive driveway will be removed we'll propose we're proposing a new walkway that'll go out to High Street that'll come off for the new uh excuse me porch that we have on the uh front of the house we added the vinyl fencing solid vinyl fencing that would enclose where the generator is and where the AC unit eventually will get located um Mr Johnson had talked about the deck 12 X1 12 deck which now fits off the back of the house that's that lighter tan color if you can try to get everyone to see it and we've widened the driveway so that we have two parking stalls in that next to we have one in front of the garage door and then one adjacent to the garage door and we've re rearrange that walkway so that it comes right off the deck and we go to the garage where it would actually walk out to the parking area or the man door that's on the side of the garage and coverage numbers 25 is allowed existing is 27.3 and we're reduced to 26.8 okay so you're reducing what's there already we're reducing what's there and again similar to the other application we're removing the the driveway in this instance and then there was a a walkway that went around the building so uh that made up for the fact that you uh widen the other driveway we widen the other driveway and yeah that was a number we were under 20 we were just under 25 um and then there was some confusion over the patio that I wasn't aware there was going to be a patio there coming out the front door we decided to take that completely away put the grade across this will be lawn and probably some Foundation plannings eventually someday and then we have this the lawn area on the adjacent to the deck for Liv for living space out so the front of the house is going to look uh for one of a better wood more normal as opposed to having that yeah it won't have that garage under situation with the retaining walls on either side how's drainage going to work now and the other thing we're proposing and I think that's something that we talked about a I know it was something we talked about at the last meeting all the roof leader drains will be connected tied into the inlet that's at the corner of uh High Street and Pine Street so it's going to be it's not going to be anywhere where any of those are going to be going onto the street it's going to be going to that to the storm water drain that's correct all the roof leaders will from the garage and also the uh the house will go to that Inlet what about run off from the property itself it goes it'll won't change it'll go same way it does today which is out towards High Street you know the high point is uh to the North or top of the pro the drawing and it goes down to High Street okay where do the where do the roof leaders drain currently they drain out to High Street was that your testimony last time um they kind of in different locations they go out to the lawn yeah this one this side of the house went out through through the retaining wall and got out to High Street there were Splash blocks over on the other side a splash block back in the the corner of the house which that went nowhere other than to the lawn so Splash blocks that were existing could have potentially gotten to Pine Street is the slope that's correct though so now they're going to be piped so they don't go on to P correct in your professional opinion between the drainage going directly down the High Street uh and the obate minimal change in uh is the overall drainage condition for the neighborhood Better or Worse under the proposed I'd say it's it's better in this case it uh there was no direct flow right to the inlet which goes underground Into the Storm drainage system so based on some testimony we heard from the from the parties from the uh audience that they were had a a big concern about the water um pooling or puddling on the end of Pine Street do you think this would reduce that factor or at least not add to it I think the only thing that's going to get there is going to be the driveway okay um and then you know and I thought about that quite a bit went out there and took a look at it and I think what the problem you have when you have these narrow roads you really don't get a crown on the road very well um so that the water normally would be up against the curb line would flow towards the curb line and then down to the inlets at either side but because it's the difficulties of trying to pave something that narrow it there's no there's no real crown on the road to do that so you know what may get out there just kind of goes down and heavy rain falls rainstorms I think it would get more most of it would get to the inlet but I can see where some weeping or some snow melting would come come out and get into the road just because there isn't a crown but the in your opinion what you have there is not going to exasperate that no I don't think so I think this is a limited amount on of the driveway and then everything else is going to go into the inlet what's the slope of the driveway it's about 10 10% from the property line out and then a little flatter so we had a little what about from uh north to south does it does it slant to go onto the property from that back yeah the a lot of this property actually slopes towards Pine Street it's the backyard that would actually come out towards no that well that driveway with some of the water go onto the backyard to the toward the house yeah no no would actually if anything it would go towards the the lawn or the vegetated area between the RightWay and the edge of payment Okay so way to put a Swale on on the side of that property so that any water coming off that driveway would stay on the property well is that a potential that potian the only thing you could really you could do here is put a trench drain to catch the water but you're only going to catch a small amount because the good part of this driveway is in the RightWay okay so it's really just a 17.1 ft that you could no like I met on the corner of the driveway on the southern corner right you know and on the edge of the property there if you put a Swale so that any water coming off the driver would stay on the side of the property instead of going on it's the right it's all in the right away so you can't okay it's really really difficult subject to the acceptance by okay that's why I'm asking so yeah it's not their property okay yeah I think I think the effort to pipe and convey directly to the inlet for the get close to that Mike the the effort to pipe and convey directly to the inlet is removing majority of the runoff that's being generated on the site which is the roof of the house the roof of the garage right so we're looking at what's probably 45% of the driveway is on the property the other 55% is in the RightWay draining out into the lawn belt of the RightWay and into the road um and the the existing vegetative cover are also draining out towards the corner of high and pine we have inlets on both sides and then with the absence of a crown we also have the inlet on the far side of High Street on the south end okay so so in your opinion what they're doing should be able to accommodate anything coming down down Pine Street to those inlets to capture any other runoff but in your opinion is what they're doing going to exacerbate any issues of standing water at the end of Pine Street no it's it's going to mitigate it it's going to mitigate removing the bulk of impervious runoff directly into the catch bases which is what's happening now with the splash blocks right right now you're seeing an Overland flow from the property into Pine and making its way to the to the catch Basin now be directly they directly doing that sub surface now okay um and then any other questions from our ex questions for more yes let Tom go go ahead go ahead I you said Tom I'm sorry no I I'm sorry Jonathan I I Jonathan two questions number one are you coming for a variance I noticed um are you looking for a maximum lot VAR coverage variance now because you weren't before coverage yeah slightly yes okay cuz you were not before though we weren't before now we were and and then for Mr holl um the fill that you're putting into where the driveway is I guess it's going to be sloped so it at the max you said it was four 4 feet of how much at the highest level of fill will that be like up next to the house um it would be four maybe maybe even four and a half tapering down to the road correct is your so your prior plans I believe although there was some confusion was to tear up the driveway and and lay some grass or or something sod there but keep it at the same level I think that was there was some confusion what what exactly we're doing but either way I think we talked about leaving the walls up there taking the pavement out and then just having lawn that's same in your professional opinion is the addition of however many cubic feet of you know fill dirt there I assume I I don't know what the other you know uh um um you know the the the dirt that it's currently there is is that improve the retainage of water on the property uh as compared to what was there before not the driveway but the original plan of doing just ripping up the driveway and putting grass down I think it's very similar okay that doesn't change it too much no but it does help it for the driveway being there oh yes yeah because now we're going to have lawn and and most likely eventually they'll have some Foundation plannings there okay that was my question sorry sorry oh sorry can I just ask one question sorry but the impervious coverage would still that you're proposing would still be less than what it is today correct okay thank you sorry right J um my question is and it's for I guess both of the engineers um would it be best practices to have the water um as much as we can reasonably pipe into some type of uh retention basing some type of seage pit on the property and then uh with an overflow uh going then into the municipal storm water system but first keep as much on the property we're already going to fill in uh 4 feet in front of the house seems like a good spot to put that it's on the you know the lower end of the property U you have leaders going down there already doesn't seem like it's you know much of an added cost but I think there's a lot of added benefit for there what's your opinion on that that is that would that be a better practice than just going right into the municipal water system which is just going to push the water down to Valley Road eventually anyway I I guess maybe I misunderstood but this is what we talked about at the last meeting to to pipe it into the into the inlet and um I really trying to think about it based on the other application um I know exactly that we've got the heavy clay here my experience is once you're on this side of the railroad tracks some areas are Shale and some areas aren't so good it's similar to to um downtown Sterling as I had said before park tests done or whatever the required tests are to determine that no there wasn't wasn't anything done here so we're just based on prior experience other similar properties is that what you're basing your opinion on yes okay dear engineer have any comment on that um so would it be beneficial nwor to do something on the property and then have it gradually go into that storm drain this board has long had a practice to keep water on the subject property yeah as long as it's that's what we're asking logistically how would that work if we're going to the one corner but proposing to put a and where would you put it and would it be prac or whatever well any BMP we put on the property is going to need to drain out within 72 hours so if we're going to use best management practices of the state if we're going to do a subsurface infiltration Basin or just detention Basin depending on if we even had you know the ability to perk um we'd be detaining a volume that must release from that underground storage in 72 hours that 72 hour timing um would would provide temporary relief of our Municipal system Downstream to any areas where it might be in a flooding condition before it reaches the outfall to the river uh but it would that volume would then be there within 72 hours which would typically be in any flooding conditions in our municipality part of the continuation of the flooding uh so essentially you could either take the water into the flood plane immediately or you could take the water into the flood plane within 72 hours uh the closer you are to the flood plane the more it makes sense to get the water into the flood plane and allow the flood plane to release itself so it's not further delayed in timing um I I don't think we would see any tangible benefit to say a Valley Road section that we tie into before the outfall um you wouldn't tangibly increase the level of the flood from the volume releasing from this property or the difference in the volume releasing from this property from the 25% allowable coverage to the 268 that they're now asking for the variance on which is a reduction from the 27.4 I have a followup question when he's finished okay so I I'd say the the value engineering of it the cost benefit analysis of it um is uh is more theoretical than practical it's more socially beneficial to show the use of these techniques then it would be to actually have a an impact to our Downstream Network and and flooding conditions down down gradient okay you have follow yeah so um again each individual property may not be impactful in the overall flood situation but what about collectively all of the properties that are developed throughout the whole town and throughout every other town if you add up all of the water that's coming from all of them and each opportunity that we have when when there's an application before a board anywhere whether it's Long Hill or any other town all of those applications were required to do some type of mitigation on site uh storm water retention on site even if it is di Minimus collectively how does that impact the entire flood situation in Long Hill and other towns that so the the requirement to the applicant is again to detain the difference or detain the increase in in runoff generated from the increase in impervious surface under the modern development standard in this case again we were at a decrease from the prior existing although it is you know acknowledging it's above the 25% so we're into a legal question now whether or not we have the authority to request uh on-site storm water mitigation there is there is not a requirement of our code that they need to meet to hold detention on site right but my understanding in the discussion of the variants you may find it appropriate as a board to ask for mitigation that mitigation I would create a benchmark of 25% to the 26.8% so the 1.6% whatever that translates to in square footage 34 Square ft about 34 Square ft that's 34 Square ft over let's call it a 100e storm 7 in to 9 in intensity of rain um we're talking about less than a pre-cast drywell of volume was kind of the factor that that's that's the the the factor of the volume that we be detaining our lawyer because what I'm misunderstanding now is that's like the technical like you're saying we should capture the increase in water right the increase in in that's what our code requires right but my understanding as a board member we can require things that go beyond our code no you I'll request them as long as it's a rational corre as long as it's rational as long as it's we think that you know for in exchange for you know making the situation better ameliorating any existing conditions that we think may be improved which this this property is dumping water into our Municipal system we have a flood problem in the town that water is going to roll downhill and eventually flood they're asking for things that are changing the character of the neighborhood we have neighborhood complaints so if we want something to make the situation better maybe one of sometimes we ask for trees to be planted so we say you know this is we're going to screen that property because we know what you're doing is not within our ordinance but we're going to make an exception for you but we ask you to screen this off so the neighbors don't have to deal with the with looking at whatever is you're creating that's not appealing to them so the Same by the same way we're asking for water mitigation we're saying this property currently dumps all the water and it runs down the street and into the lower Ling properties that flood well even if it's di Minimus even if like I said one property is not going to change the world but if we do this every time we have an application which is though I've been doing this on this board for more than 15 years um we can say look we think there's a problem here we think there's a problem dumping water into Municipal uh storm water system because it's eventually going to get to the bottom and somebody's going to be flooded by that but I think the the question is to your point and I as I understood how Joe answered it is that is it better to have a drain on the property or is it better to put it into the municipal system right away with the considerations that Joe laid out and tell me if I'm wrong but your opinion was that there is a benefit to allowing it to enter the municipal system immediately because then the flood plane you know dis relieves itself naturally yes I misunderstood that clarification because I misunderstood that to to be the closer you are to the flood plane which this house is pretty far from the flood plane the closer you are the more beneficial it is to put the water in sooner put it right into the flood plane that's what I quick quick Rider on our promation of flood plane Rules by the state of New Jersey the reason that we have the recent Inland flood protection rules in my professional opinion and this is going way outside the application um is that our state did not listen to The Professional engineers in the state of New Jersey when they created the flood plane regulations previously and they addressed quantity in Peak flow reduction and never addressed volume particularly in the flood plant and so you can't really destroy water you could reuse it on site uh but it's either going to go back in the ground or it's going to go down gradient but by creating standards for development throughout a watershed and throughout a flood plane that have the exact same requirements of timing and routing of development to release the water Downstream essentially what we've done is we created a regulation a program of Regulation to continually top off the cup that is overflowing in the flood plane so every time the the flood the river starts to release flood storage down gradient somewhere else and out to the ocean our timing of our basins in every development around the area in the region consistently release more water and continue to top off the flood plane so particularly with a small drop of buck in the bucket of a minor development I firmly believe it's better to release that water into the flood plane and allow it to release Itself by by gravity timing Downstream as fast as possible rather than allow a minor relief and then top off the flood plane and continue that for 72 plus half I see okay um as it relates to mitigating variance proofs and perhaps I should step out of the way from my other two professionals but it was asked so I will answer first look at the variances in front of you first look at the proofs from planning planning proofs put in front of you and if you feel that there is a balance of mitigation to those proofs still to be provided by the application for that affirmative variant to be provided then that as the example you made to Landscaping buffers to alleviate a setback requirement or some intensity of development that's asking for the request that's that standard to provide that mitigation and to justify it not being cost generative of the board to put on the applicant so when we get into the technical nature of storm water management I think it's a little bit finer of a hair to split on the cost generative nature of a storm water Improvement that that may be minor in volume and minor in benefit relative to the cost benefit ratio of that Improvement okay so it would not be my recommendation to add additional storage I think the offset of that if we were looking at roof leers discharging directly tog grade as you were at the prior application that I wasn't or the prior hearing that I wasn't part of perhaps we' be consider in that that detention system as a way of then M holding the water and releasing it with direct overflow to to the street space to the streets but by getting the water directly to our base and if there's adequate storage to move small volumes and small storms and it's under larger storms down gradient that we already are in a flooding condition this application is not creating any down Downstream detriment to our infrastructure or the flooding conditions or the flood plane and not tangibly increasing the flood plane down Dow gradient and it's benefiting that area in general that specific area and specifically the neighbors that have been noticed and have concerns about Ron off I believe are being better suited better better suited and have the best mitigation for their situation because again the more we put into the ground the more that res that surfaces and groundwater mounding and potentially impacts one of the neighbors basements or other foundational issues that or the street itself or the street itself or sarging the street in an area with high changing grades to another area okay thank you just one one more followup just about the collective storage of water on the properties so one property isn't going to make a difference but what about all of them in in the whole flood plane um I think that's a discussion for us to have in a different Forum relative to our Township's endorsement of the blue Acres Program and whether or not blue acres is a reasonable option for buyouts in flood areas or if we want to look at other widescale rezoning and reconfiguring of those neighborhoods so well I agree with that and um with all due respect this is the first time I'm hearing on this board that storm water management practices are are not best to store to have water first stored on a property I wouldn't put those words in my mouth but okay you say them how you choose to okay so well maybe maybe I didn't understand what you said but I thought that you said that it's best to put the water directly into the municipal system I I think what he said was on this particular on this particular property okay I I don't believe we should be I don't believe we should be looking at a widespread policy decision that may be cost generative to the applicant and create a position of potential dare I say the word starts with an A yeah ends in peel yeah for a denial so the cost of putting the system we're talking about the cost benefit analysis and I'm sorry to beat this to death I'm done after this my understand it's a very low Tech by item right we're talking about a little bit of concrete there's going to be an excavator on site and some Stone I mean you buy those cylinders and you drop them into the hole and the pipes go there first when you're doing a project this size that's dominous I would say I mean it's few thousand but no I understand what you're saying Jerry but I what I get our engine is saying is that the benefit for that minor overage of the coverage would not really have that great of a benefit to do that right as opposed to allowing it to just go right into the Into the Storm sore and what I'm hearing is that there might actually be a negative impact of that so that's my big I'm hearing that as well yeah right so let's move on I I don't want to yeah I'm the last person who wants to beat this up but I I just wanted to tease something out that I think might maybe alleviate me some of Mr concerns the deck right 12 x 12 that's what's causing the the overage with the impervious coverage correct except that we actually have a reduction right well so that overage as opposed to the last last time this application was that's what proposed wood wood deck with slats and gravel or or soil underneath so the water will run off and then infiltrate to yes even though we consider it impervious it does have some not impervious it's considered lock coverage lock coverage right so for your purpose of zoning intensity the bulk variance but it's not inate if we were to remove that square footage from the 26 point we would comply we would comply under the 25 or if that changed to a patio it would be worse than the deck if that was a patio it would be direct by point of bringing that up Mr Rooney was because the deck is treated as lock coverage but with the slats it will still drain it's beyond that though it's it's the whole picture it's it's really it's really flood mitigation storm water management the whole big picture more so than anything else but thank you for I got appreciate that and I think I think the answer there is is looking at our zoning and the characteristics of our zones and the applications that this board Sees at our annual report and we can opine on if we believe that certain zones need characteristic wholesale changes to their overall intensity and if we want to promote the consolidation of undersized Lots okay one question um I believe I've heard here at this board before that if a deck with slats if the uh depth between slats is wide enough maybe width as opposed to depth sorry that it no longer is registered as impervious and then it's the same as any other lot they get a reduction they get a if they get a 50% reduction in there is that and if we did that if they did that here yeah if they did that here would that bring us under what we have to worry about Mr H correct if I'm WR I've never heard of that in this town I can tell you that your neighbor to the Northwest burners Township excludes non decks as have that Gap they don't includ itage I can vouch for that is this say is this a deck that's going to have slats or it's going to have spaces where I would I would align that to is our shed our accessory structure code 134.4 I want to say it is um if a shed is constructed on a particular base of gravel the ability to drain does not count against lock coverage MH so it's very comparable to a deck a deck that is going to drain off and then infiltrate to the soil all right it is in our ordinance right now so just take a look okay so it it's on um I can give you it's 136.28 and EF and G um what does it say it basic if a deck is not covered it's eligible for 50% reduction in loot coverage provided it meets the following and then um you'll just have to take a look or Mr take so do you stipulate that it would meet that can you stipulate that that Mr zi yeah it's yes be SL right but I mean would okay do whatever that requires so you'll you'll be you'll be in conformance with section one whatever I just said 136.28 serious where that calculation was done I I know that but you also got to see practicality those things get un level and they yeah they're for the homeowner so with with that condition being applicable what would the proposed lock cover that's lock coverage right yeah proposed lock coverage ratio go down to it's 26.8 as proposed you're G to have to give me a minute well you you it looks like your deck is 144 square ft right so it' be 72 square feet reduction yeah we be down 7 be a couple tents of a percentage of yeah well and you're you're over by 99 it looks like so it would take you down from 99 to 27 you'd be 27t steing well M Mr chair while he's doing that can I can I ask a question um I know I just asked this question Mr Hollows and then Mr Hollows made a comment about the just the property in the area although didn't do any you know testing of but he did mention that the most of this is hard clay and and maybe Shale or some hard to drain and that's why IID asked the question about the fill that they're putting into where the driveway is and he said it was probably dimin and maybe you would agree but I would think that the stuff they're putting in there is going to be better draining dirt and and fill than what they have on the property now so it wouldn't it wouldn't really retain much water above whatever underlying so how much like do you usually have to add to like some to height to actually create some advantage in draining well the I mean the the advantage is the poor space the 40% space in like in a stone backfill in the soil it's going to be much less than that but it's the available void space in the soil to hold some small volume of water but that's really just per groundwater yeah if you have if you have especially in topographic Rel you have shale and it's not highly fractured with an opportunity for fissures that allows it to infiltrate through op then you're perching that on top of it before in the existing condition in Shallow top soils and then you're putting say an 8 in Lift Top Soil over it you get the void space of that at 8 ft to hold the water but the more water you put in there the more that's going to reflect out into the street and it's going to we out of the hillside okay and it's not going to make it underneath the road but I guess the question is is is and we talk we use the word to Minimus constantly is it better than the current situation that they have having fill in the front yard yeah not the current situation with the driveway but the current situation without a driveway that's coming down towards High Street to absorb into well draining soils because the Phil's probably going to be well draing okay so you would say it is better than what they presented to us the previous meeting which you weren't at but you know what they said yeah which would have been you know existing Suburban soils that have been Consolidated over time by okay that's that's just what I wanted to see if someone okay so what what did we come up with 25.9 oh so we've gotten it down then yeah okay to just the 0.9 over that's good okay so well that actually resulted in a good U benefit so uh just by redesigning the deck a little bit correct okay good any other questions for Mr Hollow any questions from the public of Mr Hollows no uh any other Witnesses okay uh would you like to give us an overview of what you're looking for I believe the members of the public might want to speak before I do that oh yeah but I why don't you why don't you say exactly and then I'll let them comment um so all right this way they have a better idea I mean essentially I'd be repeating the same uh we have the same variances uh we now have uh coverage variance that we didn't have before albe it um going from 25.9 as opposed to the required 25 uh so it's I won't say it's di Minimus but it's it's not a big one and it's certainly an improvement over 27. three that we have now um I think at the original application uh the neighbors expressed concerns about the massing if you want to say of the appearance of the home from their perspective uh I think by reducing the height by the two feet and also from the front perspective of not having the Dormers and having the uh more shallow pitch roof uh We've addressed that concern significantly uh it is not you know an overly sized home this is not a mcmansion or anything like that it is a colonial as opposed to a cape or a ranch uh but it's not huge by any means um we've addressed the drainage concern significantly as we've just discussed at length um again this is a lot that is less than half of what's required in lot area uh so these variances uh reflect that fact as far as I'm concerned they're all uh justifiable both under the C1 for a hardship uh and under a C2 uh C2 primarily because we are we're improving coverage we're improving drainage patterns but we're also upgrading the neighborhood in terms of the house what you have now is a a very aged uh Cape Cod that honestly does not uh satisfy the needs of modern families you heard testimony at the first meeting about what the second floor consist of it's it's not full height uh you're having adults having to bend over walking through most of the rooms up there uh so this is uh being convered conver it into a more functional home uh it's more appropriate for modern family and would encourage you know family to move into the neighborhood so it's an improvement uh to the neighborhood as a whole uh to the extent that there's any detriment and we're certainly not suggesting there were uh we certainly would say that the benefits uh outweigh any detriment that might exist uh so under a C2 would be appropriate as well and that's what we're looking at we don't have any Dev variances and uh thank you I I just wanted that that the audience understood it any comments by the public come on you would want to give him that microphone um Deborah could he if he has to answer a question could he use your mic questions yeah uh Fred you could use her mic if you need to talk so that way we don't have to give it back and forth and back and forth there was no so this is the comment period sir so I'm comment period I think I SW before but I'll do it again just to be safe do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to provide will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth to help you got I do and state your name again for the record uh Al peepy 222 High Street thank you lot 39 so uh I appreciate both the board and the applicants uh consideration with the concerns that we had uh this is much closer to what we had envisioned for the for the neighborhood uh one one uh concern that I would like to uh Express now that we have a deck in the back here would it be considered or would be something that would be in consideration to have a fence line in here it wouldn't go all the way to the street cuz I don't think that would look you know very good to the neighborhood but maybe start it at the beginning of the house go back and maybe cut off the corner you're talking about like I uh privacy fence privacy fence yeah something that that would that be something the uh applicant would consider uh we can certainly talk about that would you prefer that as opposed to like an arbor hedro or something like that well we already have these for Cynthia in here so we're we're almost looking for and and the reason I say that is because um within the last 3 weeks there was there this generator here was running non-stop since nobody was in the house right so to have some sort of I'm not going to say a a sound barrier like on 287 but I'm talking about a regular let me just let me have Mr Shaw just address that because that that was a specific incident there was a reason he can explain that real no I I understand but I'm just saying that not only that but then you're going to have a back back yard activity uh those types of things so that's what we're just considering if we could consider a fence there well putting on J and on the as well yeah well we have a fence around that but what I that's for noise but he's talking about more privacy issues privacy along the rear property line not the way not to go all the way to High Street to the front you can't put it in the front yard anyway right consideration would have to be behind it's not the rear the side so not only that my apologies it looks like the rear well no no because the house faces High Street so faces this way correct from Pine the oh okay um I could be wrong but just Mr pepy just so I understand what go be on the front building line no no we don't want to go in front beond the front of you want from that basically on that just show something if you would from here right right front corner of the house back to the back of the lot right and along the back along back if you could do that I mean that's not my property so I can't speak to that but this is my concern here I I think you're a cohort there would speak today probably how many feet of that would be uh exactly exactly right so I have a similar fence on the other side of my property it goes to the front of my house to the back and then and then along the back so that's my concern that's all how what are you talking a 5 foot fence 30 feet high something like that serious whatever the normal is five six foot fence 6 foot yeah okay the uh applicant has concerns about the Aesthetics of that but if the board uh thinks said that would be a good idea we're willing to do it well what do you mean by Aesthetics you want to speak to yeah just I I want your concern about Aesthetics well you're going to put one Mr Shaw I Mr sha you he was I was so you're going to put one fence from the corner of the property down all the way to the garage just keep in consideration that garage is being roofed inside it that's going to be uniform with that house no no I understand that but what's the aesthetic reason why you don't like the fence well you think of body you're looking at the front of the house you're just seeing one fence this just one fence just going like this right it's not normally when you have a fence you're connecting it left right you're having a gate it's enclosed this and that well you could put a gate across the front of it too like I said I don't mind putting it but aesthetically I would like you to take that into consideration to see how that looks because now you're just putting one 5 foot vinyl think of a PVC vinyl fence just running straight down as a separ I think anyone said that to be vinyl yeah well what vinyl vinyl actually vinyl is more actually I think it's more athetic cuz it last longer and doesn't get nasty what he's saying is it's going to look weird it's it's half a fence half a fence in yard because it can't be the full yard but it's already screened on one side yeah not not not really if you just look at my property I have a fence on the left and it goes up the side just like this on the opposite side of the house and then it turns into the back of the property and it screens me from my neighbor thus screening me from my neighbor and them you them from you yeah of course I just have I just have one question would you take putting uh planted trees as an alternative he asked for a offense I me why he just ask I'm just I'm just asking the question if yeah I I think we' I think we'd rather see a fence to be honest with you all right that's that's fine okay um I what are the board members think of the offense I mean I have no ultimately it's up to you guys I have no issues with offense I don't think it's going to look weird I I think it probably would afford privacy to those people when they're on their deck I will defer to the applicant but I would not make my vote conditional on the fence okay I think that people can use their backyard regardless of whether there's a deck there or not and that you know if someone moved into this house the way that it is they could use the backyard there's no right so I understand your concern defer to you know others but personally for me I would not make my vote conditional on the fence band what do you think can't vote you don't care one way or the other okay I concur with her yes I do okay um Jonathan um I can see the benefit of it I I don't know that I would go as far as saying yeah my my vote would be conditional on it but I can definitely see a benefit for it okay Tom I think defense is a is a plus to give the Privacy to the uh both parties Jerry I'm in favor of the fence I think it would uh screen the property the neighbors asking he's been kind of I think generous with his view of the new application um he's accepting it I think offense is a small expense and yeah I'm not worried about the expense for goodwi for the neighborhood for everything I think you know a sixer seven whatever Foo high fence is change compliant fence whatever the number is yeah a normal fence and then if you want to screen it from the applic side you can plant your ARB there we've done that on this board we've had fence and natural natural barriers oh I know we have we've done both on the same application for for this reason yeah screen screen some noise and the the Shrubbery also screens the the Aesthetics so I don't have a problem with a fence either and I might fa I might I would be in favor of putting a fence only since the properties are so close to one another that it might be a nice privacy issue so our question and this might be better for R Ros Mary to answer is whether we'd want it to go across any part of the backline as well or just up between us and 39 well I go ahead she need you need to be M I think she was sworn already but yeah she was sworn already but swor do it again wait wait till you SW in and then you can identify yourself still no you only had question just going to double check do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to provide will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth so help you God yes would you want a fence across the entire back yes because it is so close here we would just ask for a fence along Al and right across up to the rway it can't go beyond the rway oh yeah it can't go beond the building the building right okay bar without the foundational line of the garage of the home of the home okay which would almost be the foundation line of the garage what what's the difference it's like 10 ft no no talk about the back right but I'm saying that the house if you're talking about the house the house is only 10 ft from the right away right so you that fence is only going to go up to the RightWay yeah 10 10t from 10t in from the right right 10 ft in from the RightWay okay can fences be built on the property line or is there a there's yes yes well I can here I mean for pra I mean ask people right not yeah about six Ines at least and so that there's no question who owns rule of thumb is right because the garage is only going to be 10 10 ft from the property line right right be like right there yeah it's not going to go along the driveway it's only right it's not going to be up to the driveway cuz that's that's the RightWay right there well no this is 17 ft right what's the RightWay 17 plus 17 here for the garage for the driveway would be right this one so it's 17 feet right away and then you have 10 ft in no it's 17 ft into the right that's what I'm saying so be right here yeah be like that right right okay so understand we have we have a proposal what if we took it sorry about the mic issue what if we took it and ended it even with the front plane of the garage right so so we don't have a fence kind of halfway along the driveway and it just stops randomly it there's I'm not sure what why can't it go to the street cuz it gets in a front yard then it's too high for a front yard yeah it's a but then it then then it can go down in height and being in yeah okay so you true yeah put four feet then yes if it's high right higher and then it just steps down it's a front yard setback you're already in your front yard setb back I mean technically you have two front yards this is your front yard I mean it's still it's still going to end randomly because we have so much of our of that front yard in the right of way yeah and we can't put it there I think what our planner saying I think that has a nice aesthetic appeal it's whatever the the height is and then when it gets to that point it steps down yeah and how much how much of a for foot fence would you have how what's the distance 17 the set back of the home but no no no it's the front yard FR garage it's the front yard set 17t what's the front yard side still it would still end halfway in the middle of the driveway right right oh but it would only be 4T there no wait no you can yeah I think say it would be it would be 4 feet for most of that it would be only 4T High unless they ask for what do you mean you can't have in yeah they wouldn't be able to build right away proper not deep enough they could ask for a variance yeah they can get a variance I mean they just they have to ask you can get get Vari we can't get a VAR put the right not in the right away but you can have it in the front yard and there's nothing against having a fence in the front yard people keep saying I know but people keep saying that and that's incorrect but but the but as GI variances for a front set back you're given for another's front setback you're giing for a side yard a detach garage three parking spaces you're getting all those variances why can't I have a variance for a fence for them to give them a thing just the point is the variance would be we're not even to the point of objecting to it we're just saying the variance would only be to allow it to be six ft as opposed to four all the way to the right of but we can't get a VAR not even give us a variance to take it into the right oh no I understand that oh no no I understand that either way yeah I I have a question if I can bring up if you're putting a fence that's going to cover what you're proposing then when you back out that's going to be very hard to see from that side as well well it wouldn't go into 1T off it would be 17 ft off the road you'd have plenty of vision well you then you would have the fence end halfway into the driveway basically well it's going to be off the driveway yeah basically halfway how long is the whole driveway 34t right have 17t the driveway is 34 feet long yeah you wouldn't have any problem backing out of your driveway because that a fence I you're going to have trouble backing out anyway because the Street's so narrow that's another issue but this is you're you're only going to have 17 ft of fence if I'm it sounds as if the applicant again I'm not going to put words into his mouth he does not want the fence to end either 17 ft into the driveway or 10 ft into he'd like to have it end at at the edge of the driveway at the end of the garage I understand you would like to end it further down so the difference is the 17 ft is what we're talking about here right oh 10 ft actually no it's it would be the additional 17 ft from the edge of the garage to the RightWay is what we're talking about that's kind of the discussion here but you would be willing to do it to the edge of the garage yes I would okay well can I ask you a question though the applicant's not going to live there not if this if he was going to occupy home it might be different but he's a builder he's thinking about the buyers what they would like and how it would look 100% I mean I it's an argument either way for what it's worth there used to be a fence across the whole back of the property to the right away okay there's not an issue really for either one to back out because it's 17 feet no I I I'm I'm not worried about the vision part of it it's not exactly a heavy travel Street uh so uh but I'm just saying aesthetically how it would look whether it's to the end of the drive garage or Beyond um me dep the fence has to be there forever have to maintain a fence something I don't see why you couldn't step down the fence but if well the plants might look nicer you know there would be a nicer look to them well depends if they're maintained right now the property is not maintained so it looks crappy anyway but you know so but again and and no offense to you but you're not going to be living there we are and I'm not taking anything away from you but it's not your home these are our homes plants look nice I mean they're nice blockage on your um white fence looks nice yeah all right um okay well the the board will make a decision on that and then the question would be what if anything the Bo's going to require off reing a certain type I would say white vinyl not accepted it white vinyl lasts longer and doesn't get nasty looking and gray and you know it's no no low maintenance you know a a a wooden fence eventually rots and deteriorates and falls down I've seen it if you don't maintain it so you'd put no maintenance on the on the property owner something I mean I'm just that's just my opinion uh are we putting making that a requirement I think not I don't know I'm just I'm just saying come back to it uh all right um let's get if everyone else off now can I ask a question to the board or is that come later no no depends what the question is but all right well my just my my quick question one might be for them what is the square footage of the house now and what is it proposed to be do you know that just a quick question but that's not my question to what is go down what is the current square footage of the house and what is the proposed 1372 proposed 1812 according to our plan planners okay um okay now my other question to the board is one we're talking about the drainage and again we really don't know what the water's going to be coming out of the driveway and how it's going to go down Pine Street like um Mr H was saying that um there is no pitch in the road it's just too narrow to do that so the water may come out it may not we don't know and I understand that but my other question is what happens when a homeowner you're giving out variances for all different things what happens when the homeowner comes in and says well I want to expand the deck or now I want to do something else do they get variances upon variances and things like that that's that's up to that time I mean right okay any subsequent okay so let's say that the board approves this tonight right they would be applicant would be getting a law coverage variance in the amount of they're proposing 25.9% where 25% is allowed any subsequent homeowner that wants to expand on that deck so change anything for example deck but whatever the whatever m let's say they might make it a 20 X2 instead of a 12 x 12 well that's going to require that's going to be an increase in lock coverage thus they're going to have to come back to this board and they're going to have to get a new variance for that so then okay that's what I'm asking and then so the same thing would apply if they said wanted to cut out some of the front yard and say we want to put in now a driveway in the front because there is no parking in the front they need a variance it depends I I haven't looked at the ordinance it depends what they're proposing if it's if it violates the ordinance as it's written they have to get a it it does it does because they're already over in maximum impervious C hold on sorry can I just finish all right so um if they paved the driveway again they'd have to come back to get a variance they'd have to come before the board okay but then variances are issued on top of already existing VAR they have to make their case all again noticed everybody be the whole same thing again it would be the same exact okay that's what I wanted to know okay thank you and what I was referring to is any changes to that house there's things you're permitted to do by right and things you're not permitted to do by right when you're not permitted to do it by right then you got to come here or the planning board depends on the application that's a lot to get into but that's okay that was my question that's what I was trying to get to you want to you can get that back okay so hearing that um I can we start our deliberations or do you want anything else to uh I don't need to sum up my sum up no we're good did we confirmed that just just for the record you're meable to putting in a fence front of the house to the front of the garage we would like to leave that up to the board our preference would be to not have the fence at all or as to The Back Fence anyway if it were going to be required uh that it end with the front plane of the garage uh we would not have a problem with then being required to have arborite or some kind of vegetative thing from from that point to the right of way okay all right thank you so we're not stipulating we'll leave that one up to the board okay all right okay and Fred speaking of stipulations yeah I we might have touched on it at the last hearing but are you guys stipulating everything on our board uh planner and and engineer memos there weren't too many conditions I think a few Brian we had no objections right yeah okay we're fine all right thank you so if you want me to do you get you delate first do you want me to no let's delate first okay okay Jessica how do you want to deal with the fence just as you tell us what you so um we'll take a poll on that all right so I'll start with the legal standards um I do think first of all thank you very much I think that you really took to heart everything that not just this board said but that the neighbors who were concerned and really raised very valid um and excellent points at the last meeting you took it back and I'm I very much appreciate because I think it made um dealing with tonight much easier right bathtub upstairs too oh yeah okay bathtub upstairs right um and and and you really have done the best that you can with this property and so I think that for purposes of C1 we are there I think that for purposes of C2 we are also there the property as it stands is not functional it's an isore I think that you could have done anything and it would have improved it but frankly you know it's it's a vast Improvement to what's there there's safety issues that Mr Johnson raised last time within the property there's drainage issues which you are addressing to the best of your capability and so for those reasons I am in favor of the application the way that it has been presented with the conditions that have been discussed I am not in favor of the fence I'm not going to you know I will defer to the majority obviously on the fence I think that it's a careful what you wish for I think it's going to be a little bit of an ey sore in terms of breaking up the property adding more structure to that tiny space um and in place of offense would you be in favor of landscaping uh I think Landscaping as opposed to a white V fence is a much preferable aesthetically for the neighbors for you know the neighborhood in general um I just I think that it's going to look odd with a white vinyl fence in an L shape on that property the way that it is and the size that it is um so I'm not making my vote conditional on a fence but I am in favor of the application and I will be voting yes so well again thank you for coming and thank you for the people in who in the audience who've come to hear us uh the generator is going to be hid behind the fence the garage is required all the water uh abatement that you've you've worked on taking it out to the water management system that the Municipal Water Management System but it's not going to be sitting in that property's backyard when you do sell it and the person who buys it goes oh I got a pond so thank you for that um I like everything that you've done uh again what jessus said yeah I'd like to Echo it uh I also will not base my vote on the fact that you do or do not have offence but I would like to see some sort of line breakage there some some arivi or whatever U foliage do you want put in there that'd be fine uh but I based on everything that's been said and all of the stipulations that will be forthcoming uh I would be in favor of this application Jerry um I will thank the applicant um for revising your application and your professionals I think they did a good job listening to this board and to the neighbors um I don't think it's I don't think the neighbors are thrilled with the project but I think they're going to accept it because they know you've made some great efforts to uh to appease their concerns so thank you for that um thank you to your professionals the design it makes it more palatable um with the fence I am definitely uh in favor of the fence because they ask for it and it's a small thing um this board we've seen it we've seen them do it uh we did it with the shrine just recently I know we're not a precedent setting board so it doesn't mean we can look back and say well we did it for that applicant so we're going to do it here but I think it's appropriate I think it's a small ask um for the size of the project that you're doing um and and yeah go with the vinyl I mean I preferably I would like to see wood if it was my house I would put a wood fence there but I would maintain that I know I would maintain that and it's a wood wood decks and wood fences are a lot of Maintenance otherwise they rot so in this particular case we can't see down the road I'd be in favor of as our chairman said he's in favor of the vinyl I think it's good for this application I think it should start in the uh in the north uh it's I think it's the north uh the Northwest side of the property go all the way to the property end and then head east as far as permitted by law and as high as permitted by law and if this board wants to Grant you a variance if you want to ask for it for the height variance so you can go right up to the property line that's sort of uh I've driven up there just to look at that for this application that area it needs it's a it's it's a need of some type of Maintenance anyway there's like scrubby bushes and stuff there that need to that needs to be cleaned up anyway so I would assume that would happen with this project I think that fence will just sort of Define that area and then everybody can do their own landscaping if you want to put ior on your side side they want to put on their side they can screen the fence but the fence will be a sound barrier so I'm pretty you know pretty strong on that um but thank you for everything else Tom um well I listened to the uh last presentation on the uh on the TV and I must admit I empathized with the concerns expressed by The Neighbors about the massive size of the house and so I want to thank um the applicant here for um changing that design clearly the neighbors are not concerned about the size because no one has offered any testimony to that point so good job on making those changes glad to see the neighbors are satisfied and I think in terms of the C variant I think it meets all the criteria as far as the fence um I for one a little bit different than both um I I would like to see the white fence extend from that corner to the edge of the garage and then from the edge of the garage to the property Lin some sort of a arbra of some kind of a living Bush of some sort but again um I'm willing to change on that point so again I'm I'm in favor of the application Jonathan yeah I mean everything that has been said already I think you know I would just reiterate um and thank you again for taking into account the the needs and desires of the neighbors and I appreciate them for coming out I actually think that as a board this is how we actually seem to work the best is when we listen to everybody all sides and come to a some sort of uh you know a best you know when when nobody's I guess what they say is when nobody's totally happy it's probably the best route and so I think this in this we've made a pretty good um you know we we've had a good uh negotiation here and gotten something that uh for all parties I would agree with Tom actually I think I was thinking that same thing regarding the fence I would say you know the fence to the edge of the the garage line and then some sort of um you know whether it be Arbor VY or whatever uh again that's just my own personal opinion um I think I think you know I don't want to put any undue pressure you know I think that the the applicant has said that he'd be willing to do this he doesn't want to do it I'm sure but you know he'd be willing and so if he is willing then I I would be in favor of offense with then then up to that point what similar to what Tom had explained and I and and I again thank you for your time and all your professionals and I would be supportive of this application I fence and I no fence okay so I'm trying to I'm trying to break this down into different categories because everybody seems to have a little bit of a different perspective I have two no fence I have two halves and I have one fence I I didn't created in a different category so and unless I missed a note we have two people who haven't spoken yet right well can't one can't I haven't spoken yet got it so the bulk everyone with the exception of Miss Brenan is in favor of offense in some way shape or form no except tom tom three to two now wait a minute you wouldn't mind if it was there but you're not against it that's sadre that's okay so it's only really one he was he was in my indifferent category okay indifferent okay right um I'm not going to I wouldn't block the application for the lack of it oh God who's sitting on the I was waiting for that show okay I have I have two people supporting Landscaping instead of a fence and then two people supporting landscaping and fencing with Tom and Jessica being Landscaping instead of fence even though Tom's indifferent to the fence okay and Landscaping plus fence I think that was that was almost everybody you you would you go along with Landscaping uh and the fence you haven't talked yet okay I just wanted to know what you were saying change my vote come up with yeah that's really not changing it's just modifying okay look that's I say we cross that bridge when we get to it but right now I I think that I think that defense is the best option that's right I understand that but we're we're where're there's a slight debate on whether it ends at the garage and then you go some landscaping or it goes as far as that can go at a step down lower rate because at for fit's not really going to do much that's the whole point but what you think I mean seriously are you on it I I would say that I know where you what you think I'm in favor of the application I think the applicant has done all he can to satisfy the variances to satisfy the C1 C2C of uh uh the uh requirements uh he's been very um flexible with his um accommodations for what our experts were saying and what the audience the neighbors were saying I think the house will be a benefit to the neighborhood it will it will encourage a nice family to move in there uh it'll be a useful house uh right now it's really not useful for a family it's kind of uh disjointed uh it's got a strange Garage in the front of the house and a strange driveway now it's going to be a little more normal as far as defense go I I think before that was mentioned by the uh by the public I was not even thinking of a fence but when it was mentioned I don't have I don't have an objection to the fence I think uh I I would want a fence there but I would not want it to go past the front of the garage I would want Landscaping beyond that because I don't think 4 feet is going to do much for blocking anything I think a plant base that grows higher would do better it would it would actually look nicer it would be uh more static in the front of the garage up to the up to the uh RightWay uh it would grow higher I think it would be a better barrier than a 4 foot fence which is all you could have basically there so um and then I want to create another variance so I would be in favor of the fence uh starting from the front of the corner of the house up to the back uh across to the garage and then after that a nice set of of landscaping uh I think that would that would give some privacy to the backyard uh for that uh people that own that house unfortunately you have two front Lawns so you really can't put the fence on the other side near Pine Street I don't think you'd want to do that anyway but uh so I would I would I would be in favor of it with the fence and then the Landscaping by the garage can I jump in yeah so having said that I think that's that's the majority wants the fence to end at the garage yeah and then Landscaping thereafter that's what it seems like today can can you stipulate that the purpose of the arbor or whatever we stipulate the type of screening and that that the intent of it is to screen not to have one or two plants in that 17 no it would be it would be a natural fence yeah so so we're talking about aret SPAC whatever it is that you space them that grow into each other yes grow into each other right yes it would be not not three three bushes over the 17 ft 7t apart or 5T apart it would be it would be used as a natural uh fence right create a HED R yeah a h r right for for buffering yeah sound buffering visual buffering but a more aesthetic buffering right okay thank you okay I I hate to ask vinyl fence or wood fence well I'd say vinyl I'll go vinyl too I I agree with you on that let's two for vinyl vinyl vinyl three for vinyl I don't I mean whatever anyone else thinks I don't so V okay final wins by default that's that's a majority okay only because you can't guarantee somebody's going to maintain a wooden fence like a faux wooden fence wood make that a faux wood fence all right um okay so now you have that as a condition yeah um okay so would you like to uh give you a little talk before sure I will do my best to summarize everything I'm still trying to write out the condition for the fence which I think we all understand the terms but just putting it into a single statement I'm still working on but anyway so here's the application 4 board members applicant here is seeking five variances as I count it um two are for the front yard setback for the proposed well I guess the existing Tob renovated dwelling um they're required to provide a 50-ft setback at a minimum on from The High Street yard it's the South yard uh they're proposing 41 ft there and they're also required to uh I got him required to to provide at least a 30 foot minimum setb back from the uh the Pine Street side to the east they're proposing 8.7 those actually planted that's what I heard from the applicants earlier .7 okay no one's saying no so that's what we're going to go with um additionally they're seeking a sidey yard setback for uh on the west side of the the dwelling uh they're required to provide at least 10 ft there and they're proposing 7.3 um additionally they're seing a front yard setback for the proposed garage they're this is to be from the Pine Street side in the East they're required to provide at least 30 ft there and they're proposing 17.1 ft and then finally the last one is for lot coverage and with the stipulation to uh that the proposed deck would comply with the ordinances requirements for the 50% openness credit to apply uh they're proposing a 25.9% or 25% is the permitted maximum they're also going to be complying with all the conditions in our board professional reports the reports from uh Liz leeny our wonderful board planner originally dated April 11th 2024 and revised through May 1st 2024 then also U our board engineer Joe vo's memo dated April 15 2024 and there were a few other conditions I had included but I think it might have already been covered in those memos U the generator and AC unit is to have a a fencing around it and they've already represented that they're going to be doing that uh offering between garage okay that's that's kind of more toward W the fence thing and there was another one direct connection to the inl yeah oh direct connection to the down spells right of the garage in the house let just write this down before we keep going okay okay okay the other one I had U any light exterior lighting fixture would be uh directed downward or otherwise shielded so it's not to cast light spillage on neighboring properties and then condition that's just trying to be thorough here folks give one second up right the as I stated before the proposed deck will conform with Section I looked it up it's 136.28 openness requirement or the 50% openness credit and uh the one I'm still trying to sort out in my head is uh the applicant will provide privacy fencing and compliant locations along the western property line starting at the Western Northern corner of the of the dwelling to the rear corner of the of the property then Eastward Southern souw sou yeah the it's from the front corner that's South up is north or the back of is North that's what I thought no that's what I'm saying from the from the front corner of the house from the front oh I'm sorry Southern Corner okay I thought we were going from the back corner okay so from the front southwest corner of the dwelling to the rear most property line the southern property line then Eastward to the face of the proposed garage Northern property line yeah Northern property did I said not say that I said East along North is up and to the left on that map North is oh I see okay so the north that would be the Northeast property line right right okay along the northeast nor West that's Northwest starting no the the property line is Northeast right that's what yeah it moves okay Jesus Christ know I'm confused okay so we're or let me just get oriented with the map here okay the top left corner of is North is North correct right yes okay they're starting at the Eastern or I'm sorry the Western most corner of the house right they're going along what would be the Northwestern property line right they're going to end at the corner they're going to go along East along the northeastern property line to the front of the garage with this proposed with not the proposed but with this fence and then from the face of the garage to the right of way line they're going to be planting Arbor VY trees to form a natural to form a natural barrier screen fence whatever you want call could instead of using directional suff because if you it does get confusing could you say order on of the properties I will word it in the best way I possibly can make you can say a long lot 39 or whatever how many feet yeah you can do that it's 10:15 and I'm figure we just request one clarification with regard to the fencing not the fencing itself currently there is natural vegitation along that sideline MH so we're we're not preluded from removing that in order to install the fence I just don't want there to be any confusion no no you're not you don't need both right okay if if that gets in the way of the fence that goes well if it's whose property it's on my property well we're not going to remove anything that's not on our property your prop will get moved we're close to the public too don't have to get in dictat no you're not allowed to move somewh on some no we understand that but if it's on our side of the line and we'd like to remove it to put the fence up we're okay to do that yes okay and that's it I hope that's it okay I just asked for a sentence to that effect somewhere in the resolution you would thank you you got it friend okay all right uh local oh I motion do I have a motion to accept this to move the to uh approve this uh application so moved second second well call Vice chairman grot yes Mr Rosenberg yep Mr aronia yes M Brennan yes Mr Flatley yes chairman GRE yes motion carries we got that thank you all very much thank you for staying with us and okay and thank you for being so flexible on this good luck when it goes up for sale we all walk through it do we have anything else can we pick the color of the shutters um can we pick the color of the shutters what are we doing we got 15 minutes we got 15 minutes let me just talk yeah why don't you talk to him I don't think it's wor we took minute yeah let's take a five minute break yeah I know are we going to hear the the next application that's what he's determining in 15 minutes we may not be not if we're taking a 5 minute break we don't have professional memos either so it's yeah we don't have professional memos taking a break right now yeah yeah shut it off e e e e e e e e hold on hold on okay okay we're back on the record not that much mic is it dead already I oh my God use this one can we get buy batteries made in America rumor has it chadam has a really nice system and Deb might even have specs about that from some attorney who knew about it okay anyway just get megaphones yeah this go so obviously given given the hour and the fact that the next application is is substantial somewhat complicated uh we're not going to try to start it for just a few minutes tonight okay my understanding is that we can be carried to the 21st um and there is a commercial deck application or something that would be on that night uh there are there's a residential deck residential deck okay existing over coverage okay so obviously Our concern would be to be able to hopefully hopefully finish we're going to have uh three Witnesses at least okay so we're moved to the 21st place you have the benefit of our experts reports which we don't have that's correct um we do have a I do have a concern though because we have a use variance uh and I know Mr chairman you need to recuse yourself on this I don't know if anyone else [Music] is okay so do we have alternates to bring us up oh we have the other two members that aren't here we have Gary and we have uh merth so we will have two more members where scenario you don't have a full seven vote you can carry it to another meeting until we have the full seven vote yeah yeah you can still put your case on right yeah okay yeah we'll give you leeway if you want to defer to a different meeting there was a I don't know if it's a serious possibility or not there was some possibility Mr ganakas could recuse himself if that happened there's a possibility that I might not be at that meeting the 21st May 21st May 21st there's a strong possibility I won't be here right okay now we're five members that's not good yeah that's not good I I might have to go back and check the case law on the ml but I know there's certain instances where you can borrow or maybe it's the other way around planning board can borrow zoning board members do it work in Reverse Fred I don't know no we can borrow planning board members right we can right we have yeah okay so we could explore that once we get confirmation on I I absolutely would want seven on this one yeah okay I don't blame it's the next available meeting is that what happens if you get pushed out it's how we looking on how are we looking for the fourth what anything on the fourth depends if you want me or not absolutely like to get you no question about that are you Jerry good on the fourth everyone else is good on the fourth can't um would you go for the fourth maybe I speak with my clients for one second sure thank you yeah I mean that might be a better option June and May so I never is he all by himself on the fourth or is it someone else no nobody's all by themselves wait wa who who else is on the on the a Doggy Daycare at it's another use variant over at Valley Mall right here that might not be that longy we're a carryover would be You' be first you be first yeah so they might have to be carried yeah oh if they bring in the dog and we get patted what the hell it might count it's bribery yeah might BR it you know the dog and pony show literally I think we coming oh my God that's why I sent we're not allowed to have doggy dayare in this yeah well this year I'm not going to be gone until the second week of July so that's good I think boarding is there boarding involved yes I I would I would highly suggest while they're discussing it if the board members are aware their again I I we put out the schedule that everybody agrees to at the beginning of the year the board members know at this point in time is your summer schedules and if you will be missing a meeting I can't express to you the importance of you letting me know ASAP because of this scenario that we're going through right now and what it does to the applications the applicants the backup and the time so I so you're you're putting them on what day June we're about to find no that would be June 2nd what are you talking drum please June 4th is a Thursday oh then June second be June second hurry up get get yeah you kept saying the June 64 it's June getting the date correct June 4th is a Tuesday FR come back it is you must be looking at July or no I'm looking at yeah you must be looking okay June 4th you're are June 4 June 4th it is June 4th okay sorry well June 2nd would be Sunday I'm not coming in actually it doesn't matter I won't be here it doesn't matter because be here on July 4th that's the primary election that's the primary elections but I don't need to be here so that's good that's right I yes so that wouldn't make any difference okay okay that's a good one to recuse yourself from so June 4th are we first you are first okay so you're good and there's no reason you would be stopping us Midway so if we can we at least get the whole meeting whether we and it sounds like we'll have a decent number of yeah to my yes we have two members that are working the it's no itn't well know I'm never a positive I'm never 100% sure June because I usually have work issues June so I cannot give you 100% know down to one forus purposes bu's working I know because he I will discuss with our attorneys about just pulling two from the planning board check with Gary too yeah he might be Rec the potential conflict there is he's represented my client in the I don't I don't personally really see that as a conflict but he could be viewed that way he did have a business relationship I'll that up he's not to gain from it now I'll brief yeah appearances right yeah it's appearances yeah it's exact steeve fair enough thank [Music] you thank you so 1893 will be June 4th and then uncommon thread it'll be back to the 21st then I guess okay right okay the two online okay do I hear a motion to move um Tom's gotad you're recusing so no you got to ask what are we going to say motion we need to request the motion to carry the application oh yeah that's going to be you do okay yeah you you have you're taking over the Rangers for oh yeah I I mve to carry the No No you have to request oh can someone please give me a motion thank you very much I've never had a never had a bit of motion in my life the motion is to carry the application to June 4th just so everybody with no further notice with no further notice being required it was correct the first time around it was good for today we've carried it multiple times it's good to go same we have all in favor I hi okay great there we go thank you all very much thank you a great night motion to adjourn second all in favor wej