all right we're on the air all right um oh good all right call to order and statement of compliance adequate notice of this meeting here SL hearing has been provided by posting a copy of the public meeting hearing dates on the municipal Bolington board and website and by sending a copy to the acro Sentinal and Coura news newspapers and by filing a copy with the municipal clerk standard board procedures any hearing conducted by the board is a quasi judicial proceeding any questions or comments must be limited to issues that are relevant to what the board May legally consider in reaching a decision and decorum appropriate to judicial hearing must be maintained at all times meeting cut off announcement is made that as a matter of procedure it is the intention of the Zing Board of adjustment not to continue any matter past 10:30 p.m. at any regular or special meeting SL hearing of the board unless a motion is passed by the members then present to extend the meeting SL hearing to a later specified cut off time electronic devices all in attendance are asked to mute their cell phones or any electronic devices as to not interrupt the proceedings much of Allegiance would you lead us please to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible liberty and justice for all thank okay W call Mr aronia here M Brennan here Mr ganas Mr FL here Mr Rosenberg here Mr wats has excused this evening Miss Collins here Vice chairman grov here chairman gret here chairman we have a quum thank you and I see our experts are here and our attorney is President very good all right now the meeting minutes are not ready right correct okay but we do have a resolution correct something happen it gets really tricky okay we have the resolution of Zoning Board of adjustment Township of long hill Mars County New Jersey the Milton and linia DTE d a r t 424 Elm Street Sterling New Jersey block 13003 lot 18 application number 23-16 Z the hearing date was February 6th the board action was February 6th and the memorialization is going to be today uh did everybody have a chance to look over the resolution thank and Mr chairman I'm going to recuse myself I'm going to step out while you guys take care of this I recused myself from this application I'm oh you don't have to step out just don't vote I'll step out oh okay all right okay um okay are there any other uh comments on this uh resolution uh all right hearing none uh do I hear a motion to um approve this resolution as presented so move okay uh yeah who was and who was the second Johnn Mr yeah all right M Brennan yes Mr Rosenberg yes Vice chairman grov yes Mr gakis yes Mr watt is absent tonight and um Miss cfer Collins yes thank you all right motion carries all right thank you uh you want to tell Joe you can come back all right I'm G to wait for him to come back um okay now our application in front of us is a US varience block 1410 lot 63 Zone C for conservation located at 1050 Long Hill Road application number 23-14 Z missionary Servants of the Most Holy Trinity the applicant proposes to construct a cibarium to be located on the Westerly side of the property north of the existing parking lot are the applicants here and ready would you like to come up to the table do we can we put a a microphone there there was one there it ain't there now somebody somebody pull back to the Das I guess I don't know yeah I think I'm sorry Mr what about the one from right behind the young lady okay good all right um would you go over the legalities of this I have reviewed the notice it is satisfactory the board has jurisdiction to proceed with this application good okay terrific we've got the approval EXC uh would you like to introduce yourself and your client sure you mind if I stand you can stand okay my name is Manda wol the post poic I'm covering from fredi if you saw him on the application that's why I'm covering um tonight I have with me Father Molina and Mr Mella mic yeah you can sit down you don't need to stand you can sit yeah whatever I prefer okay so if you were like me who are wondering what is a columbarium and it is basically a wall or structure that's designed to hold Ash so when folks in turn ashes they go into the columbarium and could you move that over to there so an angle as we can see it and the audience can see it because um some people on board here can't see it over there where to stop um right right there there's right there is no actually that way a little bit that way a little bit all right that's angle it toward us no yeah that's good yeah and if the audience wants to see it they can swing around that's good can everybody see it okay good that's good okay little to the left though all right go ahead s perfect thank you so what you're looking at is actually the columbarium those walls on the side are what constitutes the columbarium so it's a weird word but that's what it is and basically I just wanted to tell you the property is located at 1050 L Hill Road as you know we're in the sea conservation Zone where churches are not of permitted use so we are seeking preliminary and final site plan approval as well as a D2 variant the board we were previously before the bo in 2002 and 2019 and the board did consider our use to be inherently beneficial and recognize that fact so in short a columbarium has niches which are I guess the Box I've described as a little box that you put the ashes in and the proposal is for 270 niches in Phase a and then in total there will be 846 niches on as part of the project the standard of relief for our variants is the D2 sea balancing test so first we're going to identify the public interests at stake then we're going to identify the detrimental effect if any that will ensue from the grant of the variance third we will discuss any detrimental impacts and how we can reduce that with conditions of approval and then fourth we'll ask you to weigh the positive and negative criteria and determine whether unbalance the grant of the variance would cause a substantial detriment to the public good I think that we will demonstrate to you that this proposal will not constitute any substantial de detriment or impairment and with that I will I'll turn it over and just one more thing if you notice we have quite an audience today and if you pulled into the parking lot you were probably thinking what's going on I believe most of these are friends of the church or Shrine sorry friends are nice yes so friends are nice don't stress yet but with that before you do could I have the attorney swear in our experts and what experts are you going to have Mr Michelle and father well he's a witness he's not an expert right right right he still needs to be sworn yeah he still needs to be swor but was for him is a wetness and the rest of him is thank you all right start with you guys uh do you swear to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but truth and his matter so help you God I do all right you're swor all right thank you thank you so father Molina can you tell us a little bit about yourself and the shrine so good evening to all and to you you can use that handheld one if you want and then move yours that closer it's on it should be on chairman GCT and The Honorable members of the board firstly we want to thank you for considering our request for the use of variants to construct the columbarium at The Shrine of St Joseph let me just start with a little little history when our founder Father Judge came to look for a place where he could place a a house to serve priests who had problems with alcohol and also to serve the migrants that were now coming from New York and around the area here in New Jersey he found that that hill where we are now previously was meant intended for a cemetery for the norc dases but he learned that the dasis drop it because that whole hill is actually a solid b rock and so it became then a shrine for first campsite for the Youth and so on and so forth and so building the columbarium is like going back to what the original intent was for that hill so for 100 years we have not changed our mission and the things that we do there it had always been a place for the poor especially migrant or coming into the area and always a place for families and children so that they can can find a place for serenity and peace amidst all the toils and drudges of daily living now the columbarium Is An Open Garden as you see adjoining now the 911 Tower where 2977 victims of that atrocious day are lovingly commemorated so the two of them the columbarium and the 911 Tower is really meant to put the living and the dead together so that both all of us can really continue to offer to God our prayers for them that's the columbarium it is also our response to the Unstoppable in increase in cremation especially among those who are economically challenged and cannot afford traditional funeral and burial costs and there is a keen interest among the people as you can see and support of this project moreover the Catholic church has mandated that ashes of the disease be preserved in a consecrated permanent place such as Cemetery or a columbarium because the church does not approve that ashes be scattered in nature so we expect four to seven burial funeral services for ashes a year we maintain an efficient scheduling system for events and activities to control properly the movement of traffic and cars for our 150 before parking spaces there and for instance we do not allow funerals on a Sunday and during the whole day we have staggered masses so that's a way to really control the use of our traffic the ENT tement of Ashes is easier to fit into a schedule than the burial of bodies ashes are dry entities and there's no rush so we can really maintain that in our scheduling system as in regular cemeteries the number of daily visitors should POS no problem the frequency of family and growth visits is occasional and seasonal maybe on their anniversary death anniversary and so on or November 2nd so we can manage the scheduling of all those visits I hope this gives a picture now of our request for the use of the variants and I want to end by inviting you all March 19 two weeks from now will be our Centennial 100 years there so you are more than welome closer you are more more than welcome to come and join us in that celebration thank you very much you thank you does anyone have any questions for Mr for father wait a minute um is um okay besides this testimony you're going to have who's your expert what is he Mr Mel is a engineer engineer okay um all right um does that any board member have a question for the witness to just testify I have a question go ahead um father well thank you first for for that thorough explanation of the intended use it was helpful uh reasonable explanation of what you intend to do there did I hear you say did I hear it correctly that there's three to four Ashes In Tune there per year five to seven five to seven a year per year okay so that's a long range planning we're talking about yeah oh yeah yeah because families buy the niches even if they're not even if they're not using it immediately yeah correct so you have you have people pre- buying that and reserving say keep the mic because you're going to be answering questionaries um I I obviously plan for very long term right yes I'm familiar with that in a little bit also it must be maintained in perfect is that correct also yes so do you have a plan for that also is that continued expansion beond what you have already yes we do yes okay well what what is the maintenance that would have to be done in this proc the maintenance will be the shrines yeah but what is it what what what is it in we we have an irrigation system there and we have the manicured Garden we have also maintenance of all the trees and so on and so forth but including all the niches on the walls yeah so it's going to what I have a follow up go ahead go ahead um with the perpetuity uh situation you can move that mic a little closer you I'm sorry there um obviously you have a financial plan also a long range financial plan to maintain this yes in perpetuity yes we do is that through a foundation or some type of trust instrument how is that done we have our own yes you have your own yes okay yes okay thank you goad uh out of curiosity these these niches that you will have is it one per family is it one per P for deceased body uh well no longer a body but for D person it's one for a family and it and it could contain two earns or to three earns so it's two to three earns in each Gable correct and and the niches are 12 x 12 12 by 12 and how deep yes 12 in deep 12 in high the Box yes okay um any other questions by board members Mr touched on uh the perpetu that you have a plan for and you said yes and just I mean it's kind of hard to plan for perpetuity but just kind of curious what what in general what is the plan that there would be uh you know 200 years from now there would be another need and you know Ed here would have to see another case yes presented me you know I mean is that the long range plan because the site was you know destined for this use is is what you're explained well we we we will first build people are still passing 200 years from now and not living forever you know yeah we will we will build now the 270 niches and we can move into a phase three as we are able to sell also some of those niches so we are we are looking at 3 year 30-year plan the one now is how many niches I'm getting confused how how what's the first now I 270 will be the first okay which holds 700 I thought I heard a 700 800 number total there will be 846 niches correct which has a capability of two to three per Niche earns yes okay all right okay 1700 still another oh you got the math okay yeah 2 * 8 is 16 any other questions is there a financial plan yes we we do and and if I could just interject I think that the overall question is is there a plan to further expand this Beyond and can you explain what that is correct so the 270 is just the beginning 270 right that's a phase one and two and then we will go into phase three you have needed yes but that's for another board not this one in in when when we are able to sell them so that's probably in 10 years when we go into phase three sell is a lot different than use yeah you can sell them all off and they wouldn't be used yes so potentially you could have the entire thing sold off correct okay and you're asking for approval of essentially all three phases cor all three phases so you're going to phase in the construction but you're asking the approval for all three correct see that's that's what you were yeah I thought it was just one no it's it's the whole shebang your can I ask a question of the attorney um we can approve that yeah that's good isn't there a one-ear limitation once they begin construction on and pull permits they' vested their approval for All Phases yeah okay yeah my view yeah so you once they put the shovel on the ground you plan on breaking ground within the next year if this is approved okay well they're pretty quick the last time we gave them that think's done already right maybe even this Ser yeah but um so any other questions from board members okay does the audience have any questions of this witness uh yes come on up Sir you have a question uh would you hand him that microphone please and he you can stand at the podium please tell us your name address and then State your question stand behind the podium please yes my name is pavi I am the only owner of the property adjacent to the uh which side of you're looking at East Side I'm sorry can you give me your address yeah the address it's zero Broad Street there's no house there so oh oh okay and my question is uh those three phases are they all shown on the map that was submitted or is it only one phase um yes I believe they were all shown on the so so the way it's going to look is the three phases right okay all the so um th this drawing right here is the three phases correct okay yes according to them okay so everything is on the west side of the property basically right all right thank you thank you thank you any other questions from members of the public okay yes come on up state your name and and address and and your question I got okay Amber JZ um um we live adjacent to the shrine as well we're at 1122 L Hill Road in Sterling um we received a certified letter has says nothing about these phases so it does have the number that you guys are planning the number of niches it doesn't State how do we know it's this these 700 and something niches or phase include phase three that's the total amount the right but you guys keep saying phases the phases just so we can construct as necessary we don't want to construct everything as necessary can can mean in 10 years from now you plan on doing 800 more niches no no no they only do as many niches as we give them permission to do well they build them in sections is up to them but nothing is saying phase three there's only going to be three phases and that last phase will be when we complete the 8 so but what are we approving tonight phase one two and three all three uh that wasn't very clearly notified and to any neighbors so I mean it it's the question of phasing is more just an internal construction question for them but also noted on all the uh plans that were um posted on the public agenda from the engineer and the site plans nothing that's all three phases from what we understand yeah but it's not stated anywhere on there phases so I mean what they're asking for is approval to build everything and if they want to phasing ter if nothing is being cleared what is everything very broad what is showing here 800 asking for approval of the application right but on the application doesn't say anything about phase one two three don't have to say that that's what they're trying to okay it's very vague but they don't have to say phases they 10 phases if they want unfortunately legal notices are always very vague and can be very confusing to the public with legal Mumble jumbo so normally when notices are received my office gets a lot of calls to try to explain people come look at plans but this is the reason why they're testifying so they the project so I guess then my question is is how do we know it's going to stop here phase three if we have approval for thank you that's not that if if in fact they wanted to continue beyond phase three they would have to come back with another application to this to the board that is then present and ask for a larger extension at that time they would have the same thing they would be doing now they would show us what was there then they would have to show us what they wanted built in addition so now we are giving them what they show us here which is they can build this in any phase they want right but if they want to go beyond this it's another application okay as long as that's clear yes well and to be clear you would get a notice as well you would get a notice you or someone else that property would get a notice okay okay okay thank you you have any concerns did you have any concerns about it uh we do but that comes in public session Well yeah if you might have that question for the engineer if you have a concern the engineer might be a better person right so we'll adjust those later um thank you you're welcome any other questions of this witness yes ma'am can I stand here I have arthritis um would someone like to give her the mic you can stand there but we'll have to give you the mic all right I do have a question I live at 1122 Long Hill Road we are the property adjacent to it uh my leech field is all the way in the back of my property and it would seem like it's going to be adjacent to this this their side of the property is elevated my leechfield is down here uh what kind of assurances do I have uh has an environmental study been done uh drainage well what can I or what what kind of recourse would I have in the future if my $65,000 leech field was impacted by this that's a good question but that question is more of an engineering question their Engineers going to address those um issues with dry Wells drainage and and water runoff so when you hear the topics being discussed you can ask that question of their engineer our engineer or all right okay and number two what kind of barrier will be up there so I can enjoy my property uh there's no barriers at all really except down my driveway what if people start wandering onto my property this would be a liability for me correct is there going to be some kind of off fence installed that well that's a good question that that's a valid question um your property is directly to the left of this property that's right 1122 Long Hill Road can you say the direction is it to the west to the west to the West uh yeah it's to the no it's not no it's to the West it's the West yeah if it was to the east to'd be in the parking lot so you're to the West so you're actually the house that's right that's right the old me Hall property I'm sure people knew him recently purchased that house uh four years ago four years ago okay so I just want to try to yeah um well as far as your concerned with visibility or privacy that's something that the board can consider uh we can take a look at that as far as the plans look at and maybe that's something we can suggest to the applicant yes and I'm just thinking this is really quite an enormous property yeah perhaps there would be another place for it to go because there's what how many acres 54 54 Acres yeah yeah we live in a little two and a half acre so it seemed like there's plenty of availability there for this go ahead and do it we've always had a good relationship yeah as far as the location goes uh the board can only consider what's before it okay we're not experts on this property if it had to be moved or they chose to move it it would be a whole new application so I I think let's deal with what we have here and let the engineers uh discuss that issue and we'll disc discuss the Privacy issue and then you can have a question after that all right all righty thank you here you go all right uh any other questions of this witness and and understand we're going to be hearing from Engineers we're going to be hearing from our planner uh so there'll be other issues that will be questioned at that point um right now we've heard testimony as to the use of it the reason for it the future use of it and the expectations of it uh no more questions all right I'm going to close it to the public for that questioning um next which thank you I'd like to call Mr Mella all right before you go begin to testify you are engineer I'm a civil engineer correct and you're current your license is current my license is current in the state of New Jersey yes and you've uh testified before boards before I've testified before 100 boards within the state of New Jersey you're qualified thank you very much Mr chairman all right so I am going to go with a couple exhibits I want put up for the board this evening and then we'll to explain the project in a little bit more detail and then we'll get into this get the specifics of it yeah over here if any of the board if any of the public wants to look at that you can come around and and and stand over there because I want to make sure our board members can see it so there's no ideal place to put these things I take that's the outline of the property yeah were they submitted as part of the uh okay okay exhibited March 524 for the okay put the date on it so what we're looking at here is the basically the 2020 State Aerials that were released just a couple years ago now um and just for reference purpose pures there we go um North is up on the plan and you have long hill road that runs in east west Direction um which is County Road 657 shown on the plan there that goes across in an East West Direction on the plan the property itself is known as block 14101 lot 63 um it's within your conservation or SE Zone within the township and that's that's basically the entire property plus all of the properties to the north of the property itself when the conservation Zone some of the surrounding properties to the East and the West are within your R R2 Zone residential 2 Zone remember of the public you're welcome to come closer if you like okay um and then for the for the most part the property I said is in the C Zone and then one property across the street is also in your C Zone as well the rest are in your residential zones um as I as we mentioned the property is actually 35.394891 way and then there was actually an easement that was granted to Mars County for roadway purposes which brings the usable acreage down to 34.55% um there's three access points off of Long Hill Road into the property to that go to that access the the smaller parking lot here and then another access point that accesses the larger parking lot to the west of the property um as you can see from the aerial mapping the majority of the property is wooded to the rear um it's it's it's been it's you know undeveloped and wooded um there's basically a ridge line that runs across through the property here that splits the the drainage divide on the hillside and you have the views to the north which is the Great Swamp and then to and you have the views to the South as well um the area that we're going to be focusing on this evening is the is this little W open space area here right next to the 911 memorial um as father pointed out this to the to the south of the 911 actually just to the west of the 911 memorial W Southwest right Memorial right okay oh okay it's directly to the West just directly to the West It's actually an open area right now it's lawn it's it's been maintained as lawn um there trees that surround it um and and that's the area that we're that we're focusing on for this application um um this evening we ask question and just to point out in in that particular area there's no Wetlands um State open Waters or flood Plains it's basically manicured lawn except for the trees that are around it and it's adjacent to the existing parking area so moving on to the next exhibit call this2 for the record and it's entitled site plan rendering also dated March 5th 2024 this is a a composite oh you need the microphone foret this is a composite rendering of the um State aerial mapping in the background um as you can see it on here um with a rendering of the proposed um project that we're talking about this evening so to get into some specifics of the details of of the project itself just just to before I get into that just pointing out some of the reference points on the plan here's the Western Property Line in yellow here okay with the adjacent property we have the 911 memorial that that's this this uh representation here on the plan with with with the clock tower that you see here or the bell tower I'm sorry bell tower that that's here um the existing parking lot that's on the lower portion of the plan here you can see the um couple parking spaces already there that's identified on the plan and then you have the um proposed columbarium which and and there was some talk about different phases and I'm going to kind of talk not so much phases as opposed to the different columbariums and when they're going to be built so and I'll get into the details of that when I when when I go through it in in more specific detail but what we're looking to do here is construct basically um two new Ada parking spaces that would service both the columbarium and the 911 memorial where are they going to be they're shown right here on the plan just off the edge of the existing pavement okay okay okay so the two new Ada parking spaces there'll be a series of concrete walkways that come off of that ADA parking space that go both to the East and to the West okay those are ada8 compliant so you can get to the upper portion of the colum barium or the lower portion of the colum barium it is it is slightly um I'll say stepped by a couple feet two three feet that separate the upper portion from the lower portion because there's a slight slope on the land here is the parking lot higher or lower than the Columbine the parking lot is higher the ridge line is actually just off to the bottom of the the map here that splits the the mountain so when you're on this side you're on the downhill side going towards the swamp the Great Swamp and when you're in the middle of the parking lot it drains back towards the the county road so it's lower than the parking L lower than the parking lot so from a estimated 40 feet 50 no like about about 8 to 12 14 feet depending on where you are on the property here compared to the ridg line on the parking lot the ground level is about 8 ft lower than the par 8 to 12T lower than the parking lot depending on how you compare that to to the to the peak of the parking lot question okay so I'm just trying to you did East West you're talking size of big and I want to start to understand how tall this is because I think we're all pretty familiar with the the the memorial there and how tall that is and how that can be seen or not seen from certain places right the the elevation of this is much lower itself that the the the the bell tower is much taller this is much lower to grade in feet in feet correct um what what are the what's the highest wall that's going to be oh the columbarium walls they're about seven they're about 7even 7.25 to 7.5 ft high and those are those are the walls that are that will hold the niches that's what I mean right those are the tallest things there and we have a couple smaller retaining walls to hold back the grade and everything seven feet high and the parking lot was eight to 8 to 12 to I mean again the parking lot's probably five to six feet gr difference from the from the peak of the parking lot to the edge and then starts dropping off further from there so then you could if you had a really long board it would be from the parking lot to the top of one of the column like it wouldn't be sticking up above the parking lot it would be at the same height no it or below it for correct yeah part part of my my testimony was going to be that this is this is really not visible from from the public driving on Long Hill Township problem Dimensions I just wanted to get a sense of height yeah so so it's it's much it grade Wise It's dropping off from the top from the peak of the parking lot and you know I can I don't have all the grades in the parking lot but just for reference purposes I could tell you that you give me one second here since we're talking about grades so just roughly right on the plan where my pointer is here in the lower right hand corner of the plan the the Contour in the parking lot is about elevation 414 okay the lower level of the patio keep in mind now this is split okay without getting into this there's a there's an upper Plateau here and a lower lower Plateau there's about three stairs that separated um from the upper to lower three to four stairs um the lower Plateau level here um is at elevation 401 so you about a 13 foot grade change from from the parking lot here down to that point right there so just to give you a sense so it's going to be much lower than than the parking lot um this this plat this upper section is about elevation 404 403 to 404 in here so about 3 foot grade difference and you're coming up to the edge of the road here just for reference purposes that's about elevation 404 as well so the idea was to kind of match the grade here with the edge of the road here to about elevation 404 so when you come in off the pavement you're kind of walking to the upper level and then you're going to be able to go around the the the columbarium either by this ramping system that we have here or you could take the walkway around to the lower level depending on how you want to go depending when it's also built out too I'll talk about the phasing um a little a little later on but this the attent here is that you have an access point off the Ada parking spaces and you have an access point from the parking lot to access the column bear now the way it's laid out is we've got um basically three sections to it you've got the middle section or main section where you're coming off this walkway you've got this basically a little more not quite circular um Center section here where we have a statue or or or a feature in the middle here um that represents the circular portion of the walkway with stairs that take you from the upper portion to the lower portion and then there is one columbarium wall you can see this this curved wall here that's we'll call that columbarium wall a for all intensive purposes as it's noted on the plan and I believe that is going to be considered I'll call it phase one or the First Column barium they're going to build okay and that one has just for the record so I make sure I note this right 174 niches okay and that's this that's this columbarium wall here okay then when you move off to the right or to the east we have this additional patio area and this will and all this patio space or flat space will be built at the same time okay okay so so and and I'll go into the phasing but basically from where my pointer is on the plan here on on the west side this entire section and this entire section will all be built at the same time okay columbarium wall a will be installed first 174 niches and then there's a second columbarium wall B which is over here on the plan okay and that one actually said on the plan it actually said 114 but that was mislabeled it's going to be 96 niches okay 96 niches so for phase one so for initially for I'll call it wall a and wall B there would be 270 niches that would be installed at that time and again depending on when they install wall a and wall B all the flat work or or patio work will be done first and finished wall a will be installed first first and then wall B would go in at the appropriate time once there is a a need for it depending on the the the demand and how long it takes for those for those um niches to be sold and ultimately be used um and then what they're also proposing to do is the the third part of this which is the circular area to the West um and and there's two sections of the circular area there's there's the walkway that goes around which has stairs on it that takes you from the upper level to the lower level then we've also included on the inner portion of that a ramp system for Ada accessibility to each of the different levels that go around there okay so there's actually six columbariums that Circle this area Okay each of them have 96 niches in them for a total of 500 and and um for a total of 576 so ultimately at the end of buildout as this as I'll call it we would have 846 niches that would be that would be available here um for the site but the the intent is to construct the I'll say the the east side of this line first you build all this patio space you construct these walkways you construct the access to the 9911 Memorial that all gets built columbarium wall a goes in and then wall B would go in at the appropriate time and then once that is completed and then there's a demand for it they will then construct the um western side of this this project so nothing on the western side will be constructed that is correct so in this in the plant that's the Eastern side that's the the western side western side that's the west side yeah the this is w w I'm sorry I got the the pathways are clear and you pointed out the six other how do you say it colum columbariums col bariums yes um what are the other Brown things on the outer part of the circle the other yeah are those plants those little things well there's green things that are plants no right on the circle yes that yeah what are those in front of in front of each of the colum bariums is a small landscaped area and you could actually see it on okay I just thought there were like more there but what's in between what he was mentioning is these little bround sections in between the walls what are they right right there that's that's the walkway area yeah no no and on the outer the outer c yeah that little brown patch benches benches oh they're benches benches yes there there there benches on inside the colums are on the outside okay benches are in between the columbariums basically yeah basically at each columbarium there's a bench okay where you can sit down and and and reflect upon looking at the uh the C barer that's there all right okay so from when you break ground on phase one to completion do you have an estimated time frame on that we would actually like to start construction this spring we're actually ready if if the board acts favorably upon it it's it's a couple of months to to to to do this work for this whole section over here it's a couple of months and is there an anticipated timing in terms of starting phase three or what's the impetus for that so so basically this whole section will get built now on on the Eastern side of where my pointer is here the second I call I keep calling it phase two we're calling it phase three but the the the the the rest of the colum six others there's no time frame for that it's really going to come in play in terms of how quickly um niches are sold and then when they have the available time to go in and build that that other section it could be it could be a couple years down the road it could be 10 years down the road you know when you when you're doing things like this for for internments and and and things such as this you you you talk in years and decades you don't talk in months you know in terms of how these things sell over time so you plan for 20 30 years down the road that you could be you know what it could be 20 years before they build that now you know we've had we had some concerned with neighbors as far as water runoff and you know the neighbor to your West would you discuss some of the ways you're going to control the water on the site yeah so everything basically slopes from I'll say South Southeast to Northwest in this general direction across the plan okay the parking lot drains this way the topography drains in this general direction general direction towards the Western Property Line not go up gradient the house that is adjacent to the property line um I believe was 22 was the address that was just mentioned is just right here off of the plan but the grade goes downhill from here the intent here is we are proposing a series of dry Wells there's three dry Wells that are going to be installed as part of phase one and where are they going to be look you see them right here on the plan there's an outline of them right here right and then there's a fourth dryw that would go in as part of phase so that would keep the water from going off your property onto that work correct it would be directed into the woods and into the woods so that this weight goes down gradient um and it's going to infiltrate the runoff that's coming off of this this site um and and control it um before it discharges it so that that's the intent of the storm water for controlling that there's actually um there's also an inlet here that we're going to put in just to pick up some of the parking lot run off and discharge it towards this way around you're going to take care of some of the parking lot that isn't done now correct that isn't done now it's going to control some of that with an inlet and some discharge pipes now we've also heard some some concern by way of a question as to um landscaping and um uh sight blockage of from the neighbors how are you going to control that as far as the impact of this structure or this this project to neighbors well we weren't proposing to remove any trees on the western side of the site well how many trees are there I the existing trees I didn't count I mean is it thick enough not to see it or do you need more or that's there there is a there there's there's a there is a landscape but landscape there is existing trees that are over here I mean exist they're all different sizes of of trees I I I believe there's actually some some vegetative growth that's going on along this property line right now with the parking lot I think it's I think it might even be bamboo that's growing there what's the distance between the edge of the western side of what you what the the last phase there and the yellow line well this this distance I this distance from the columbarium to the yellow line is about 50 feet or so 40 45 feet the distance to the house is about 110 feet I checked that on on Google um Okay Google Earth this this morning now what's sight line wise What's blocking the sight line of that 110 ft it's just the just the existing vegetation that's there that that's all that we have there because again we're downg gradient from from the house the house is actually slight slightly higher than us okay so we're downgrading sometimes slightly higher gives you a better view or you're looking over past it well except you have a landscaping plan here we we do have Landscaping here that we're proposing so so can you talk about that sure go ahead there there is there is some vegetative growth out there yes along the property line own trees correct wood and we're not proposing to remove any of those existing trees on this side of the property right but are you removing any trees at all for this we do have to remove about I think it was um 16 trees generally in in in this area between the 911 memorial and and the and the Ada spaces but not closer to the board not over here we're going to enhance some of that Landscaping but again some of this will be done as part of the the the I'll call it phase two or phase three depending how you want to look at it when we do this circular section here we would do the landscaping around here this Landscaping generally speaking would go in when we do phase one and and not all of this would be disturbed because we wouldn't be oh so what's there now in where that uh last phase it's going to go this is It's lawn it's lawn yeah and it's going to remain as lawn okay if I could just jump in yes that's why yes I'm assuming too wow this microphone's awfully loud I'm assuming too that a resident had brought up as well you know the possibility the the prospect of you know this possibly being a liability the the idea of somebody halfhazard walking under her personal property but via these photos and what you're proposing it seems to be such that the idea of even walking on to somebody else's property would seem it wouldn't make any sense because it's it's too heavily too you have to walk through the woods to get to someone else's property you know so and again you'd be the idea here is to keep the visitors on the paths right so they park in the parking lot because once you come over the once you come into the parking lot and go over the the the the the ridge you're going to you're going to see this this walkway it's actually there's a there's a wooded area here and a wooded area here so it's actually sort of screened already from the parking lot so it's kind of enclosed when you when you you're there you want it to be peaceful you want it to be quiet and Serene you don't want it to be you know right there when when you see it so that's why you have this Landscaping here and this Landscaping here even with the 91 Memorial when you come in there's vegetation in front of it it's not you don't see the whole thing until you walk there and get to it so the idea is when you come in and you park we want you to walk on the paths to the columbarium you you'll see an entry here that really invites you into the to to the focal point of of the colum Baron which is the center here and that's where we want you to go we don't want people you don't want to be walking towards the towards the Western Property Line you're coming here that's the purpose of why we've we've kind of oriented it that way go ahead go ahead thank you um two questions number one what I mean I assume that if you're going to build and whatever phases you want to call that the Western portion is as long as you want to build one columbarium on that side you will need the entire path system right yes so so this this is the dividing line right here so once they decide to construct they filled up all the niches or they're close to filling up all the niches on the the East Side they will have to construct this all these improvements here in order to but they may not put all the columbariums in on that side at the same time as they don't have to right okay yes and what is the material for the path and the and the I mean are these they look different colors but are they all the same material there's basically two different types of material the well the parking the parking spaces are asphalt obviously yeah um the side the lighter gray here or or the I'll say the Tanish color is um is concrete okay okay basically from the Ada spaces is concrete to here concrete down to the 911 memorial this path here is concrete and then the rest of completely impervious coverage right and then the rest of it is all pavers okay so they semi perious is we're treating them as impervious for the purposes of the calculation for storm water um but they're going to be pavers and and there's going to be you know Stone banding or concrete banding to hold it in place and the column bars will be placed on um they have to be placed on a a solid concrete foundation these are large um Stone you know stone structures you know so they have to be placed on a concrete foundation um but but there but this is a pav a PA walk through here now there's nothing saying that they couldn't decide to do these walkways and pavers if they decide to do that we show them as concrete but they could be done in Pap so you wouldn't consider them to be have any features that would be able to absorb what you no that's why that's why we put the drywalls in I mean really what we're constructing here is is is a highly nicely landscaped patio if you want to call it that or outdoor space for the columbariums I mean I don't I'm obviously not in that field but is that something that's even avilable like to make it more imper like perious coverage that papers that actually have ability to absorb water or is that not something you would even consider I mean you could do that however in the case here since we have the dry Wells and they're sized to accommodate the runoff it was just it just felt that we're going to collect it with some drains put it in the drywalls let the drywalls infiltrate since we're we're so close to the to the development it's not like you're you're building something that you're spreading it out over a large area and I'm if I was doing 7 800 feet of a walkway going somewhere I might consider making it out of pervious material because then I don't have to collect it to one point but here since we're since we're so compact if you will in terms of the development you know collecting and putting in the drywalls make make the most sense for for what we're proposing here thank you um we talked a lot about the current vegetation that's bordering uh on the western side of the project and I see several colored other dots and I don't know what those are the large are they ornamental trees that are made to beautify the space yeah so what we're looking to do is we're not looking to cut down any trees that that are here and again keep in mind too that this is an aerial with with the tree canopies that are above it but we're looking to infill along this perimeter with ornamental and hardwood trees to to complete the look when we build this this this next phase at the same time when we do the initial phase of work all these larger green dots and purple Dots here are also ornamental or Hardwoods that are going to be that going to be put in with this initial phase of of the work in Total we had um six deciduous 12 ornamental there were two Evergreens there were 41 shrubs and then we have perennial ground covers as well that were going to be intermixed here and I guess the reason for those are just to make it look better yes to enhance the to enhance the experience when you're here in this in this area and and you're sitting there um looking at the com bariums make it more like nature correct is there any reason I understand maybe you don't want to put the the few that are in the front because you might want to access from the parking lot while you're building but is there any reason why you can't put at least the four on the side up right away so that it does provide some screening immediately for the Neighbors you're talking about these couple trees over here which ones these four or these four I'm talking the four directly on the side I mean I don't see an issue with with planting them early on because that would also kind of delineate where the line is the line is right yeah I mean that that's certainly I mean plant them now and they could you know in 10 15 years they can grow up so I don't think that would be such a bad thing to do and the dry Wells what's the intention for when each of those dry well sites are going to be built the three dry Wells go in initially with phase one that t that basically splits the site from here on over the last this dryw goes in when you build this phase here so basically this one's actually going to be this one's slightly oversized for phase one okay but it balances it out once you build um phase two but these three are going in first how close on the West Side those four trees we were just talking about how close is that to the yellow uh borderline uh I'd have to just maybe 25 30 okay just roughly to be a little so you meet the set back yeah what is the set back in a conservation zone for on the sides 25 ft okay yeah but that wouldn't count as that wouldn't be for a tree that would only be for the structure for a structure oh yeah the tree wouldn't count as from the structure already right right since I since we talked about I I don't know uh complete uh regulations on what conservation what can be done in conservation zones and what can't be done well I single family homes are permitted um incidentally we just had this conversation houses of worship or church are not a permitted use in any Zone in Long Hill even though this church has been at the S side as was testified to for 100 years right but up building another church yeah right but this is you know accessory to that church right it becomes part of that use exactly expansion of an exist is you're expanding the non-conform all of the applications that this board has looked at Through The Years recently the chapel and the 911 memorial were all sort of considered accessory to the church use any additional uh I have a few more things I just want to T I just want to know if there's any ahead um so just to kind of talk about um just the parking on the property I think we mentioned there's 152 spaces today we'll have 154 when we add the two 88 spaces um so 154 total spaces and the way the parking's been looked at here is because of the chapel use in the auditorium use they're basically non-concurrent activities so even though the overall parking requirement 218 spaces um we're really only going to use a certain amount at any given time so based on those operations as father pointed out 154 spaces is more than adequate to support the property and for for a use like this where as they mentioned the there's may be you know five to seven internments a year but you're not talking about a funeral procession when that happens it's usually happening weeks or months after a funeral in which case you only have a few cars that are probably going to be showing up for that to take place and then the rest of the time it's just visitors that we going to come and visitors are usually you know a car or two every once in a while you don't have a lot of people showing up at one time to come here to um you know to visit the space so it really it's it's it's it's really from a parking use it's really minimal um over the course of time so there's more than adequate parking on site to support it there are no in terms of just some other points to make about the use there's no noise it doesn't generate any noise it's it's it's a very quiet use there's no loudspeakers there's no music out there none of that is in place it's just it's meant to be an area to to sit down and contemplate um and be very peaceful in that regard so there's no there's no noise generating features there there's no lights this is open basically from dawn to dusk okay so no no artificial lighting no artificial lighting for this development I think there was a note on the plan about some low-level landscape lighting but that was in hindsight we were putting um conduits in under the sidewalks for irrigation purposes but we're not doing any lighting okay so so really it is basically just open from dawn to dusk like I like I mentioned um is there going to be signage that says open from dawn well I think the is there signage on the property already about dawned dusk activities or if if not if not we can probably you know yeah the only reason I'm saying that is because somebody could trip and fall if they go there dark and there's no light you don't want to be there at night correct so we can certainly look to provide some type of discreet or or you know tasteful signage yes and I think the 91 the 911 memorial is only is same thing it's only daunted dust yes well here you have steps so correct correct so we just want to make sure that that so that the purpose of that is to keep it just during daylight hours for for for the use that's there um there's no other um there's no other you know facilities that are there other than bringing irrigation water over for the Landscaping there's no we don't need any bathrooms and no sewer facilities or anything like that there's no other building structures everything is open to the um to the environment in terms of in terms of the use there was there is a proposed statue that that we have in the middle of the landscape area here would you go into detail about that there was some question about the final I don't think the final statue itself has been picked yet the the the rendering show a statue but generally it's going to be in the 6 to8 foot height range um is what we're anticipating for that statue but is that going to be no higher than the walls um the walls are slightly lower than the statue when you measure it from the ground to to the top it could be six to8 foot tall the walls are seven seven to seven and a half foot tall so generally in about the same range but we just haven't chosen the final um the final statue look at um and then there'll there'll of course um be all the Landscaping that I talked about already that'll be there um and we talked about Utilities in terms of storm water so I think that covers um the the amount the majority of my direct test oh there was a question from the public about impact to septic systems yeah again what we're proposing here is basically you know walkways and and and and um patio surfaces and we have a dryw system that's going in place to deal with the increase in storm water a runoff the state statute requires Drive requires any type of infiltration system to be 50 feet or more away from a septic field when you go for septic design we're clearly more than 50 feet away from the property line with the with the infiltration facilities and depending on where that septic field is on the other property there's there should be no impact from a state standard for those separation distances and that structure is going to be built with such that the water is going to drain onto the rear the water's draining in this in in in this direction towards the rear I don't know exactly where the septic system is on the adjacent property but it's going to continue the existing runoff pattern that's there today or decrease it with dry correct it will decrease some of the runoff because of the dry Wells but it will not alter that runoff pattern in the future so what you're saying is if there's no perceivable problem with it today to this Lee field there shouldn't be any problems with that there shouldn't be any problems in the future get we is we comply with the setbacks that that are mandated by the state and you're going to be be catching some of the run off from the parking lot too correct which will actually may be decreased it could decrease it slightly all any other questions from the board I have another question so did you consider having this um bill either to the North or the east of the memorial and if not why not and if you did why can't it be built there when we when you look at the property and you look at the layout of the property I'll go back back exibit 81 um and when you just when you look at the property um just trying to take your microphone make make this a little bit easier so I could see it um you have the existing uses that are here today on on the property okay and then behind those buildings you have all this open lawn area we have these various monuments and and and such that are on the property so you don't want to put something in on the property here right behind the main buildings that really wouldn't make sense especially for the use that we're asking for that we're asking for the board here once you go past this you're you're down into the woods here now you're taking yourself really far away from the parking that's on that's on the property today when you look at the property this this when you look at where the 911 memorial is there's some green space here but there is some there's also Green Space just to the west of it and the reason why this spot was chosen was because the landscaping and trees that are around it when you go out there and you stand there you don't feel like you're by anything so it really had a very calm Serene feel to it and when we look at it compared to here where now you're closer to all the activities that are going on with the building it it really made sense to put it there there's less trees there well yeah this this area was already generally cleared you know it was lawn already so it made sense you know to put it here you're you get you're putting it next to a lot more activity and we really want to get in a spot where it could be quieter and and and so people can be there and reflect on access from the parking lot it and that also too it gives you nice access from the parking lot so you're not in bringing people closer to the main to the other buildings they can come Park you know go there for a little while get back in their car and leave and they're they're not inter intermixing with other activities that are going on in the property when when um it was asked what other areas were considered you said you've got this big lawn area in the back uh with some I think statues and stuff and you kind of said you wouldn't want to put it here and it wasn't because of other activity I didn't hear the reason why well because you already have other things that are you you have uses that go on here already with the various statues I I would defer to father on how they use that space but generally speaking there's there's activity that goes on back here in that that are related to the existing buildings so you don't want to introduce something else that that wants to be in a space where it's quiet being used for something else now is well it's just it's just part of the of the property and again I would defer to father on on what goes on there on a daily Bas use is in the back there really that's that's just really for contemplative space nothing more like prayer stations basically where you the statues yes the survey also shows uh to the rear of the main Chapel in that open space is um is the septic exposal area oh you can't build there it is it is somewhat it's approximately located in CER of that open clearing that's a good reason why you don't want to put it there don't KN right okay yeah that would be a good reason why you don't want to put but but not not so much for that but it's for the other reasons that we talking about you're right you're also not going to build it on top of the existing septic field you say the water here flows to the north and west correct it flows yes the gradient is going Dow gradient in this direction North Northwest looks like three or four uh Lots to the nor to the exactly right there uh is I currently inhabited doesn't look like it look like it to me no there there's a there's a large house on lot 65 and there's another large house on lot 64 um but there there there are a few 100 feet away if not more so the water will not yeah the water will be dispersed already within within the wooded areas that that exist there before you even get to those lots if again I I we don't have all the topography we have the topography up to the property line but I'm sure they have their own drainage on their own property as well and that area just to the left of uh to to the west of the colaria as proposed there's a small box there is that a RightWay that you're showing yes here this is a lot this is the this is the the residents that that live next door this is lot 66 they're right there's a house in a swimming pool right right here and there's another structure closer to Long Hill Road here and then the rest of it back here is all some of it's wooded some of it's open space I I you know so I'm not sure what what is back there Beyond just just just being lawn or or Woods yes okay so it's it's at least 100 feet if not more from from our development okay so taking what that lady just said about her leech field being back in there show us exactly where your pointer when you go up take your microphone I think I say that more than any time um just tell us exactly how the water went off is going to avoid her leech field so we have that besides the notion that if the leech field was constructed properly there would be a diversion swell around it I understand that but we can't we can't assume anything but assum let's assume it was gen generally speaking and I'm going back to the topography that's that's shown on um my my sheet two of seven in terms of the the overall sight topography that's there and and and and generally speaking it it it it goes in in in in this direction so it's actually going to go east of her Le it's going to go East a little you know again you want to talk about it's perpendicular the grade so this liver in here is going to go this way the rest is generally going to go in this direction the dry Wells that are going here are going to divert are going to point the water towards here not towards not towards the the leech field okay all right um so you've done the way you've designed it to keep it away from the border of your property correct it's so this way doesn't go directly towards that area it's going to follow the existing topography once it if the drywalls if the dry Wells overflow okay they're designed to handle 4 in as a runoff where does have you noticed or can you tell from the from the way the water goes or the way the the land looks where the water is going now with it not with it not being developed there's a little bit of concentrated run on off that comes off the parking lot generally in this area down here and kind of runs down this Gravel drive but that's as far as the extent that I that I can tell but it's not it's just it's just a little concentrated flow the rest of it she flows I can't really you can't see if it concentrates itself it's concentrating itself back in the woods okay you don't see any gullies or ruts or things that look like that water is making a its own path not not through the area where we're putting this now it's it's it was maintained behind it for that matter I I right on the back side I didn't see anything on the back side like I I didn't go all the way down in the woods but generally right off right off the edge of the lawn I didn't see anything that says that we got concentrated flow so you don't see any issues now with water run off onto and anybody else's property it it doesn't appear that way and with the dry Wells you anticipated it being slightly reduced correct uh does our engineer or planner have a question for this witness I do not looking at my letter testimony directly went through each of the points did he address everything in your letter uh yeah I think my main questions would be regarding would you stipulate as a condition of approval if the board were to approve this that the statue couldn't exceed 8 feet in height that statue is four feet so you can hardly see really from well you can only see it from the parking lot okay so you I'm I'm measuring it from I'm measuring it from the ground sitting on a PL form so I'm giving a total height yeah but the total height of a platform and statue would not exceed 8et 6 6 feet six six feet you said six take eight yeah yeah eight feet take eight we'll give you eight take six you're not going to see it anyway we'll give you um and the same thing from the tip of the head to theet all right other conditions that we've talked about and I'm just curious if you would uh stipulate to them as if this were approved um that there'd be no lighting yes yes okay um and that you say that into the mic no we don't have any problem with that thank okay and the same thing with that there'd be some sort of signage maybe that it's only open dawn to dusk yes right correct okay and the only other issue um that I have is the plans didn't have any setbacks or height bulk uh regulations on them that I received and there should be some because this is a structure so you I can add that to the point the accessory setback requirements and then the height of the individual components such as the column barium of the statue I can if the board grants approval I can do that as a that would have to be something this way it's moralized on there not a problem okay those are those are really Ming questions right now well I that's why I assumed um any additional questions from board members of this witness are you have any more I do want to point out one last thing um we did receive Mars County planning board approval okay and we did receive Mars County C Conservation District approval so those are the only Outside Agency approvals that we um we would need for the project and they've and they've been received subject to the board's you know subject to the board approving it um we would be able so there's no other hurdles besides that correct correct and then whatever process we'd have to go through with the engineering department for whatever building permits may be needed for it we'd file at the appropriate time and whatever pre-con meetings are required and boting of inspection fees things of that nature I'm sure they'll be outlined in the in an approving resolution if you would have granted yes okay now I'm going to open it up to questions of this witness from the audience and they have to be limited to questions dealing with his testimony do we have questions yes come on up to a mic uh please state your name and address and your question please I'm Brian Jimenez I live at 1122 Long Hill Road thank you next to them um can I show you a picture uh sure if you have one uh oh it's an exhib do you have a question based on that because if your question is relating to that then yeah it's about to dryw well what is your question first before you show here yeah come to the mic ask your question and then all right so my question is um where my Lee field is right it's going to be right adjacent from the one drywell in the corner okay but my le field drops another six feet off that driveway everything pitches that way and then it drops down even more okay and it continues to drop down to Pleasant's Plane Road okay so I don't know if is your question pertaining to how the runoff is going to affect it yeah they take that into consideration because he's saying we don't know where it is there's no all right I understand what you're saying that's why I asked the engineer about the current runoff let me ask you a question sure have you experienced any adverse runoff from the way the property is now yes you have and yeah I have a I have a picture here you can see a rut in the Stone from the way the water comes off the parking lot and goes to the back you can see where my leechfield is in the back okay um north of the yeah would you show us your property on that oh you're that you're that there all strip up okay so is is that a flag lot then there's two houses on that property there yeah are they owned by different people they're we own we own the whole property you own the whole property so you're with the woman that spoke ear yes that's my mother that's my mother father on that propert yes yeah my my parents live in the back structure that's what I okay then we live in the front structure okay I would the engineer like to address that as I mentioned I did not you know walk all the way down to to the back so if there is water ultimately concentrating towards towards towards the back side of the site here I mean I did not go all the way down back there um and so it could be that there's there there there could be something that's that's that's concentrating there but we we did not I didn't go back there and look at that so well what you're proposing now with this cibarium will it make that worse it won't exacerbate it because we're adding the dry Wells to account for for the for the runoff um what I can do in terms of that one drywall and I'll go back to exhibit hold on a second here exhibit a A2 yes um this this dry well that's here again it was kind of pointing towards the Contours I mean I can angle the discharge in a different direction that if that you know helps and so this way at least it's not at least it gets a chance to go in a different route before it kind of turns back towards the property line I I have no problem that if you do all of that including the collection of the water from the proposed site and the dry wheels and the outlet face the other way would you say that that could better his situation it's it could improve it slightly but it's not going to exacerbate it or make it any worse because we're you know under the statute it says you know 4 Ines a run off that's being collected so the idea is to make sure you don't make it worse than what it's there so by by making some by making some adjustments we we we could try to push it the other way a little bit more yes I heard the gentleman mention the parking lot R off how can you address that issue this is what's well this is going to this is going to collect some of that as it comes across now whereas before it was coming off the parking lot and it was it was just sheeting across so what's going to happen now is we're going to have some collection there so some of that parking lot runoff is going to get picked up and put into the drywalls some of it not not all of it's just some of it because again we can't pick up the whole parking lot because this sections of it here driveway on this gravel driveway is here that's on that's on our property wait so do we need to correct the runoff I mean I understand that you're putting in dry Wells to address what you're building but if there's runoff already existing negatively impacting neighboring properties is there something that you can do for the for the parking lot for the parking lot while you're doing this SES anything like that well I mean I could I mean drainage yeah I mean the gravel drive is on our problem property okay so it is the the erosion you know that he's pointing out is actually on our piece now if that's a different Gravel drive if there's a different drive somewhere further down that's that's on that's on your property that's different but it looks like from what he's saying the gravel drive that he's talking about down here is is on our is on our property so there's two houses on the property there's two driveways are there two septic systems there's one septic system one septic system for two houses does does the gravel driveway on your side of the property serve any purpose is it used the one you mentioned yeah I I I'm not 100% sure it's the the use of it yeah have I have to check yes that's the question is could we eliminate the gravel driveway to make it more perious coverage than it would absorb more the oh it's not a driveway they use for their house it's a driveway it's on their property so I don't know who uses it like a you right yeah is that all right you just conferred I mean oh he's going into the ground but is a gravel driveway considered imper yes it is yeah because it gets packed down okay well one one second yeah I know you can you'll have a chance to do testimony this is just questions and you bought up some valid points so we're trying to address them so the gravel driveway that's there if conferring with the various and entities here that we were involved with it's not used for anything per se okay could that be eliminated we could eliminate it coverage there and if we we could eliminate it we could scarify it and and eliminate it and turn it back into existing existing nature yes let it just revert back to itself but when you pull it up you got to scarify it so you get that you get some you get some infiltration back in the ground right right and and put dirt and grass or whatever yeah and you would say that that would improve some more that would provide more drainage between the two and what we can do too is we can ensure that if when we scarify it we make sure that we we get some stabilization in there so that there so the ruting doesn't doesn't occur and and swell it so it stays on your you know like we could do that so all the water would go into your property not onto hiss we could do that okay yes if we're going to go in and remove it we could we could do that yeah because you're going to be there anyway yes as just as just as you know uh as just a part of the um the removal of the gravel drive right I mean I mean you're improving all this other area why not improve prove that too right yeah that would but we'd want that to go we'd want that to go back to to to to Nature yeah yes right with a slight swelling so it directs the water back into your property we could do that because that would help with that run off of the parking lot if it ran down that way because that's what I see happening now probably it is going towards this this corner right right we can do that keep it yeah I mean that that would probably improve greatly his his predicament it it would certainly help now it only goes to certain point right so once you get back to once you get to a certain point where it ends that's just going to dissipate out yeah by that time it'll be more dissip it'll be it'll be past it'll be past the colum barium generally to where my pointer is here on the planet I don't see the the septic field is just off the page okay up here can you just go through the on the aerial the um go back no go back to your last one oh sure along the property line there's a structure adjacent to the to the parking lot right right where your hand is that's the house is that's is that the front house that's that's the back house that's the rear house that's so so the pool is south of that the pool is is down here okay and then your house is in the front so is that the the Northerly most structure on the property that that dwelling right there okay okay and then the leech field is behind that saying it's back here it's another it's pretty far back there no it's not okay it's not it's not it's not this this area back here no it's it's is it closer to the house we didn't look that's my problem I'm heing all this but but a Swale and getting rid of that gravel driveway in their property would most likely keep the water from I'm nerv no yeah no we we're aware of that that's why we're having that gravel driveway taken out and a Swale put there to keep it on their property it doesn't sound like it was well that's why we're here tonight to make sure the primary consideration is the the setback to it which is from the state regulation so the 50 Foot minimum setback from their infiltration structure to the location of the edge of the bed that that provides for the groundwater table to have the opportunity to level and not not Mound and influence directly then we're looking at the the Overland runoff to try to mitigate along that edge and benefit that further to the north to drain so it doesn't drain over the area and then seep into your infiltration bed so we I think admittedly we're dealing with this on the fly a little bit um but but we're putting a couple measures into place here be able to help and just knowing where the actual going above and beyond the regulations are regul 50 correct to go and Beyond the regulations are well let me ask you a question what is happening now is it affecting your leech field don't okay nothing well what what we're trying and I understand what we're trying to do though if there's nothing now and the parking lot is unrestricted as far as that gravel driveway and there's no Swale with the with the removal of the gravel driveway a swell put in there keeping it on their property those um uh dry Wells we anticipate hopefully we anticipate it being better for your situation because now we have means of keeping it what's now going on your property would be now kept on their property so that's why I wanted to know what was you occurring now you said there's some erosion on your property I don't know it's close that grav driveway well that gravel driveway is going to be gone I know but I don't know there drains no no there's no drains they're going to get rid of that gravel put dirt swell it a little bit so any water goes back into their property and it'll be like a little like a little wall there like a dirt wall so that you don't have all that driveway parking lot water going right across your border I understand that that uh we're not going to do any work on your on your property should the gravel drive is probably it it's at least 10 ft off the property line yeah look about about 15 yeah they're going to whatever they do can't disturb your property I we will not go we we do not have to go on his property to do that work in in regards to the northwest um corner right there where you're gonna no northwest corner of the the grassland there that's where you're putting the drywell one drywells going here and the other three are going over here is that going to be part of phase one or will that not be that that drywell will go in when we build phase two so so some of this development here is not even going to happen for a couple years but would there be a consideration to put that drywell in before you build phase two as part of phase one it would it wouldn't be it wouldn't be collecting anything right right now the three dry Wells to the direct North are sized for the initial phase as well as portions of the future phases okay so that so essentially we we have a code that requires a 4 foot or 4 inch rainfall offset we're offsetting into there nominally five plus at this time okay and then once it's fully built out everything will conform at four plus above above our standard would you consider removing the driveway as part of phase one's operation well they are good yeah yes we would do this what a couple I guess to to clarify couple we'll put we'll put the Landscaping in over here the four trees we'll remove the driveways part of phase one we'll grade it scarify it slope it so that this way the water stays on the property um and then that will be done as part of phase one okay which is something you don't have to do right now correct but we'll be to do that this is a good thing yeah because it'll also catch some of the existing parking lot run off correct which we haven't accounted for it it will which will better the homeowners current situation it should I mean that's that's part of the reason why I mean right now it's unfathered the water just goes where it wants to off the parking lot basically um all right uh any other uh sir we'll take we'll when it comes to the end when we have testimony we can look at your photographs and discuss it some more if you feel I I I want to I want to adequately address your issue believe me never did this before okay no no that was excellent your point I ask a question uh yes sir come to the mic your name and address please my name is Andre Jimenez and I live in in the property 1122 Long Hill okay well we just say the address for the record 1122 Long Hill thank you okay okay the Gent he was talking about uh building the reason why they don't want to build to the northern part of the shrine the 911 because there was statues I think that might be the ideal place for them to have a place sine I walk my dog every day and there's there's no structure or nothing they could clear couple of trees and they could build this uh Coline whatever you call that build it going north I have no problem it will not interfere you know what would be all for it now right next to you know right next to my house where you know I live there I got my grandkids good neighbors you know I'll get you know everything is you know F until we got out of this later that they're going to build this okay and you know all of what is I understand so your question is why could they not build it in bu some build it the northern part that he's talking about well because this place is cheaper because I know but I'm trying to form it into a question here okay give the question all right he's he's taking the about the ref system he's saying well I want to build this over here because this is already flat you need to consider that you know what you have all the options the the the shine is right here if you go north you got two statue move you you can move the statu people can KNE that and pray there's not a problem it's just two little two statues there okay you could build this can I approach this sure you could build this is this is right here right you on flowers okay I'm giveing you a solution like no I understand that sir and I appreciate that ask so tell me what you know all right so uh okay let whatever I I understand your question I and I hope that he can address that so again I'll go back to exhibit A1 which is what we kind which is what we were looking at before yeah there there's space that that is generally in this area here but there's some trees there and and there's the some of the monuments that the father spoke about so when we looked at the property you know we we looked at the different locations and over here you're closer to all the activities that are going on at the the main building right we wanted to have this in a location where it was going to be well he was talking about more north of if you go more nor if you go if you go more North you're going to remove more trees to construct that where we're putting it right now the intent was to fit it into a space that was already sort of an open space already it was vacant we we we concede we have to take some trees out for the walkways H but we had a space here where the majority of the colar was going to go that we weren't clearing trees for that that's why we chose this space here and again this is not a use where you have a lot of people coming all the time it's a very Serene and quiet use we're not expecting it to have you know multiple people there during the course of the day it's it's it's it's it's it's a very uh you know minimal use on the property so and and by putting it here it it was a space that was already there it it felt right in terms of when you're on the property and when you're standing here when you're in this space It Feels Right for what we want to propose here that's why we chose that space and I understand your your close proximity the house is over here um but the house is next to a parking lot it's not next to the columbarium columbarium is further away from from the house where it is in relation to the parking lot itself question if you the parking lot the people going to visit the shine they can just keep walking it's not a problem you about 10t from the par lot to walk to the 911 memorial you could just keep walking another 10t and then you could build this there and it will be fine it's going to cost you a little more money to do it but so we we got your question thank you we understand your question and we understand his answer do you want to expand on it or I I think I've kind of already t on the reasons why this this spot was chos let me just ask you in that area where he's talking about if you have the the shrine the 911 the memorial and you go right let's say for the better word behind it but to the north of it that right there you're saying there's more trees well there there there's some trees there I haven't I haven't you know measured in that area exactly it's it's part of its wooded and part of it it's part of its um grass and there I think there's some monuments here already you can see the white dots on on the plant so ask a question yes go ahead uh if that area was considered uh as a appropriate place to put it uh would you be scarifying the gravel driveway putting in a Swale and putting in more ornamental trees close to the Border uh no if we if we moved it to the other side we wouldn't do any of that stuff so did we kind of establish that maybe it's this driveway and the drainage off the current parking lot that you're addressing at the location now that might improve their situation and if the there was a different location for it then the dry Wells wouldn't be there and the the the the remediations that you plan in this current site wouldn't be done it it certainly wouldn't have any any slight reduction on runoff towards that property line and we wouldn't be doing the driveway modifications that with the gravel drive modification that we just talked about to help you know offset some of the concerns they have on their property you wouldn't have to do that because you'd be on the other side now what what was that that reason for that gravel driveway originally does anybody you know father do you know what the reason for that gravel driveway there okay I'm was just curious how long has it been there has been there for all the years okay there used to be a Communications tower on that maybe that was access that could have been okay I was just curious as to the reason behind that yeah I I don't know so so in other words it probably has no reason right now there's no one's using it right now for anything yeah all right well that you know I I I understand the concern with moving it but I think the fact that we're doing so many improvements to that area now because it's there it may be more beneficial to neighbors uh to to the west and to the north and to the uh you know to the direction only because I think you're doing more water run off Med mediation we're doing more control with where it's going now as if as if we were to move it some some place else so you know considering where they put their septic field and I'm not quite sure the location of it based on what I've heard but certainly it sounds like it's somewhere on that western side of that property line anything that we do to to reduce or or mitigate runoff towards it is going to be a benefit to them yeah whereas now it's just unfathered it goes right over their property line correct correct and as I said before the septic field should have its own diversion Swale around it and everything if it was just constructed in the last couple years it's requirement by code right um but nonetheless we would do these additional improvements just off their property right correct um any additional questions by the uh board okay um any questions by our experts based on what was just mentioned no okay just asking um all right uh any additional testimony sure Mr Michelle can I just ask you do you think that this proposal would have any detrimental impact on the neighborhood from an engineering perspective no will not based on what I've testified to this evening and do you do you think it would have any impairment on the Zone plan from an engineering perspective uh no it will not thank you no further questions for me okay any additional testimony by any other Witnesses no okay um all right can we're going to take a 10-minute bathroom break and then we'll come back okay okay we're here by back in session we're back to session guys all right um now we left off with the conclusion I assume of your uh testimony of your U yes we did have a question about the lighting we were a little bit concerned about stairs could we little lights on the stairs just so nobody trips Wells I I I don't have a problem with that I was I was wondering about lighting too as far as tripping so if you put those those kind of like movie lights that they have little okay yeah something so like embedded in the in the stair so it kind of like Shines on the stair can we do that does that even if they wanted to half lights bother anybody cuz there's not you're not projecting light off of the site right like just to light the path you're talking about like the one foot High kind your own house land we yeah I I would say steps and everything steps at least on the steps and um maybe those um low voltage Pathway lights you but L low to the ground you want the ones that are flush with or even flush flush to the ground yeah outline the path this now then imply that because we asked about Dust to Dawn yeah does this imply that people will be there after dusk then is this inviting people then anybody is we don't want to be no but if somebody but if anybody is they shouldn't be kind of but it's still all right let me put this way question you got to account for cloudy days uh days where it might get darker sooner but we still want dawn to dusk but this is just an added safety meas this covers you during those D the shoulder times when the sun's going down the sun has gone down but there's still some some on the dust yeah first of all we don't want people on the property before uh it gets light or after gets dark for safety reasons for security reasons and things like that so and we'll have the signage as he requested but this is just the the lighting is just safety reasons okay thank you okay uh with that issue clarified um does any board member have any last minute questions before I opened it up to the public comment yeah I I I I so Liz had written a letter um that I'm sure you've seen um and listed some of her planning comments and I didn't know I mean I I just spoke with her I guess I could speak to them or you could just speak to them but the main one is in her comment I guess number one which takes up most of the comments um in terms of the D2 variants and I assume that you're you're here to testify that you have had no substantial change to the mission or operation although I and I'm not saying I have any notion of of what being essentially in the funeral business is but it's a different business than what they're in now I know it is part and parcel sometimes of being a church um but at least in the hundred years that this has existed here they have never been in the funeral business correct that's correct and so there's a business plan there's got to be someone professional I assume they have to hire um marketing all these types of things that are not currently done as part of the church I think the intent is for current parishioners only and then maybe at some point it would be expanded but the the purpose is not to extend it to everybody it's only for parishioners right now and how many parishioners I mean I'm sorry Father can you come back up I guess how many parishioners are there I don't know what even what size of the yes yeah just talking then invite yes so for now yes we're just thinking of the people who are just uh with us and how many parishioners how many how many that's about 400 so even if everybody signed up with you for this you would you wouldn't be able to fill the entirety of what you have currently right now okay um and you'd mentioned something at the beginning I don't I don't know about your price structures or whatever but is this I think you said something about that the int intent of this site originally was to serve migrants Etc and and to give them an I think you mentioned affordable or whatever um I I I think you mentioned that I don't know how that what that has to do whether it means that you don't charge a a a large amount to be a parisher or anything obviously charge yeah so is this in the scheme of the funeral type of business going to be on the low end in terms of cost comparatively to a similar type of structure yes yes especially the burial of bodies yeah obviously that but I'm saying in terms of other types of equivalent things are you in terms of your price structure on the lower end of the price structure is that what your intent is lower okay yeah because we have places like Somerset Memorial uh in basting Ridge that has an indoor uh place that has like a little yeah and there I assume it would be higher price so your your intent to get into the funeral business is for your it's not because you you're looking to make additional money for or you know it's not going to be almost like a fundraising type of thing it will it will not will this even pay for itself I guess is the question no or will you have to provide additional funds on top of what you're okay it's not a it's a loss leader or something I guess they say in the business world so there's a there's a charitable aspect of it as well in terms of providing low cost final place of rest no we don't have that it's for the parishioners is what he said earlier the parishioners okay but it'll be an afford your your intent is to make it an affordable option for your parishioners because obviously they could choose to go elsewhere they're not forced to do this but it's in a in the in comparison to other similar types of sites it's more affordable is what you're saying correct okay um I don't know if Liz had any other that was my only okay well thank you clean that up that was good uh any other questions now at this time I'm going to open it up for comments to the public and comments meaning if you have photographs or things you want to show us uh besides questions uh do we have someone wants to make comments or bring up some issues and I you know we we were waiting with baited breath here we wanted to see that and just make sure you're talking you have the mic in your hand when you're talking could I just have your name and address yeah so it's Amber jenz 1122 L Hill Road in Sterling so um you can move the mic you could take that mic out of can I use the easel sure sure okay I just want to show you guys we put together some pictures because where they are proposing to build this collabrium is in a very secluded place of the shrine which I understand they're saying is a peaceful area but I would like the board to consider safety in terms of because it's in such a secluded area who's going to be monitoring this and I know we're saying maybe put a sign from dawn to dusk but no that's definitely going on okay so but if somebody does decide to show up to visit a loved one say 10 o'clock at night who's going to be there to really stop them who's really monitoring this well that that that would be the same for the 911 Shrine too I mean we have the same issue there Memorial so I that that's a good question we we'll ask the uh applicant just trying to bring light to some areas that haven't that really doesn't that doesn't go so much to the location because any location would have that issue correct well any location on the property would have the issue of somebody visiting it later that's true let's just mark exhibit if you could put o-1 and the date on oh sure do have a pen thanks okay so up in the yeah mark it before you keep speaking one Let's uh I'll have you let's have you sworn as well yeah good uh when you're done with that if you could raise your right hand you swear to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but right hand you swear to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth so help you God yes okay you're under oath um and could you confirm for the record that uh did you take these photographs we did I did you did okay and what date did you take them on uh we actually took them yesterday okay it was actually they're on my phone so they're dated I took them on Sunday okay so recently recently mhm yeah that's an accurate picture of what you're depicting yeah so this is the rear dwelling of on our property and this is that gravel driveway that they were we were speaking of before that um that so you can see how close the proximity Is you're taking the picture from their property correct this is from right you're standing on their property picture of your house yeah where they're proposing to build this collabrium will there also be pictures in this picture yeah will there also be pictures from your house yes mhm yeah so it's actually on the same and I labeled them the views from where the pictures are so this group down here is from our backyard facing the area where they want to build it and we marked them with with these little blue stars so you guys have a are more familiar with it what's that lower right hand so these are showing the slope of the property so you can get a better feel of it and what's that up right hand and then so this is um this is the drive this is the parking lot that's existing and they they have a donation box here that's very poorly maintained people come and dump quite often they did put a sign up which is helpful but it just kind of brings light that none of the this area is really monitored so there's garbage there you could see in the picture it's actually looks nicer than usual but any given nobody really goes the public doesn't ever really go back to this far corner of the property so now that they're proposing in to build this new structure it's going to bring light to it so I just want the board to really try to consider down the line it's this area is becoming available to the public it's very secluded just something to think about I mean I know it's supposed to be a peaceful place but it could wind up being some type of hidden Hideout down the line like a hangout just just something to consider I just the pictures will show like how secluded the area is um and what else did I want so there's also pictures here that shows from the inside of the rear dwelling out of window The View where that structure will be built so and those are the the way the trees look at the current yeah this is how it is now yeah so that area the engineer was speaking of with the the bamboo Shrubbery is really here so the where they're proposing is all the way this down so it's kind of looking up into so would it help by putting more where when they get rid of that gravel driveway if they were so do that and put it well would it also help to plant trees there yeah it probably would it probably would help more of a shield I I know that it seems like everyone who's represented here from the shrine is not sure what this gravel driveway is there for can we just make sure as a board it's not there for access in terms of emergency vehicles or but move we we were thinking possibly but have we over have we thought about making sure that this new structure is accessible to fire trucks EMT ambulance things like that shouldn't be anything to Burns there but okay I just just want to make sure the gravel driveway we had we had a thought that perhaps that was access to some sort of uh antenna that was there at that time which is no longer there that's in the that's still there it's in the front of right well that got moved so oh okay so this gravel driveway is basically uh obsolete at this point yeah mhm uh but what you're what I gather you're saying what I see from your picture there is that along with getting rid of the gravel driveway selling it on for their property the water it would might also help to put some buffering there as far as vegetation trees it could yeah um you know something that would block because because we can see your house pretty clear through there oh right which is you know why why we're so concerned but I mean the other question I have is I know we're saying they could plant the trees or green the type of trees or how is any of that like held accountable oh when they okay the the process is is whatever we agree upon tonight if we in fact approve it whatever they we tell them they have to do do our experts and the town would monitor that so before they've got their final approval before they would get their final seal of signing off they would have to make sure that their plans first of all would have to be modified to show what we want with those trees or whatever they're going to do so if if those plans have to be modified then I can't see how anything can be approved tonight no what we do is the idea is approved we leave it up to our engineer and our planner to work with the final plans once those final plans are done they approve them based on our uh resolution and based on our conditions and then they are signed off by the engineer and by Deborah and myself the fin get before get can you just go through the process that like you just said before we create a resolution tonight and then we memorialize it right another meeting to make sure that everything that we said is in fact the resolution would be drawn up by our attorneys MH they in turn it in turn encompasses the things that we tell them to do that are additional to what they were going to do they in turn take their plans and modify them according to the resolution which would mean showing that removal of that gravel driveway the Swale the additional buffering of trees okay and things like that whatever we told them to do they will put on those plans whatever's on those plans have to be built the way they're on the plans okay there is check and balances here okay good okay um I just want to show one other uh board that we put I don't know if you want me to label it yeah if you could label it o-2 and put the date okay so uh we provided here our um site plan the survey of our property so you can see exactly where our dwellings are um and their proposed area here's the two-story dwelling is going to be in this area adjacent here yeah so this is Long Hill Road here this is our our our main house and then this is the accessory dwelling house so the the area that we've been speaking of all night is right back in this area just so the board can get an idea of proximity um and then this is an overview from Google um Google maps of the P the Shin's whole property you could see how much open space I know we already talked about this so we're not going to back to it um there's the statues and things like that and the Stars this is the 911 um remembrance Tower so this is the area that they're they're proposing yeah so just just to give you guys um it's a it's a really big property and yeah unless you're there all the time where they're planning on putting this you'd probably never even been back in this little Meadow area yeah I I'm familiar with it but yeah just to give everyone a visual can I ask question sure uh do you have a swimming pool on your property we do how far is it from the property line you share with the neighbor um I'm not sure it should say it on this this survey but do you think it's about the same distance that their proposed uh like from from the house to where they're they're planning on putting this from the prop from the property line that you share your pool is let's just say 20 ft 30 ft 50 ft oh 40t 40t okay and how far was the structure that they're building from the property line oh it's further yeah further okay no 16 feet from the sh from the shed this is the house it doesn't show the pool measurement all right guys U you can't be heard on the record so if you want to say something come up and say it on the mic they don't put a yeah what I would ask you after you're done talking about those I want each we want to pass those around and look at them because I really can't see distance um but uh I would think it would be who the every board member to look at what they showing us and this survey is when we bought the house in 2017 so has anything changed since then no okay nothing has changed yeah everything that's on that survey is the way it is now yes um and is there any other photographs you have except the fence this fence is no longer here oh okay but that's on the other that's like in the grassy area mhm it's marked on there but it's no longer there aside from the fence everything else is yes okay there's no other additional structures structures haven't been removed okay no uh are there any other photographs besides what you're showing us no okay wasn't weren't there some I guess your husband had some photos of some water D oh yeah they're not on the board though no that's okay could we'd like to see them too where's do you have it with you still oh yeah so this picture you mark them on the back the 03 04 however how many are there just two okay then Mark it 03 and 04 with the date right in the date yes please okay okay okay so you can see here this is that gravel driveway yes um it's on the other board but so our our leech field is back here see there's there's this fence that's been it's it's not even a fence I'm not sure what it's been there since we bought the property but our our leech field is adjacent to that so you can see this gravel area right there there is a quite a bit of a ditch there that just somehow naturally and that's that's their gravel this is their gravel dway yeah so there there is an indication that you have a stream of water going in that area right because everything's pitched down but down so that's true you can you know you the the parking lots up here Long Hill roads all the way up here so everything pitches down right so by getting rid of that gravel driveway putting the sell in and putting some buffering of trees of bushes that would eliminate a lot of that water that would be going down there or at least stop it or or okay okay I'm asking you do you think that would be the case on your to be honest I'm not sure how that works so okay well we've we have used SES and okay pitches of property to purposely keep water off other people's property it's one of the that I mean our planter and engineer will tell you that that does work one of the measures we have to us in our toolbx okay okay and then the the other picture that we labeled 03 is um of the actual Lee field in our in the back of the property you'll see it on the um survey so that's all that pict standing where looking where so this is standing from um from where they're proposing to build the collabrium looking down okay looking on your yeah yeah okay MH and and I think your husband had mentioned before that's you'd say that's a six from where you're standing there to looking down to where that's about six Brian said about six feet M yeah does I I mean is that can we confirm that from there do we have a to Topo on that do we have anything that we could look at that looks like topography cuts off pretty immediately after you Pro cross the property line is is that a topographic survey there is a bit of um an existing Swale between the property line uh and the existing Gravel Drive okay all right so any of those improvements we discussed earlier would essentially be tying into that okay to improve that area improving that and and making it more um accentuated basically so does better job yes there's a contouring pushing back from the property about 7 feet or so into the property off the property line back into a Swale that would then travel directly north okay and stay and stay as much as possible off off the the Westerly property right so then removing the gravel drive as discussed earlier would afford the opportunity to move the center line further away from the property line okay for that Swale to just be promoted away from the property line and straight back parallel and do you see room to put trees or bushes or something to block The View yeah so there's and the Final Phase is approximately 10 to 11 ft from the easterly edge of the existing Gravel Drive okay to the wall of the Improvement so you you could put something in there you've got yeah you've got a a a gap of space there that can be about 15t probably north of 30 okay so there's quite a bit of room there put in terms of yeah room to look to supplement planting for screening and address the drainage okay good that's that's always good there's room there okay okay um the the other two last things is I just hope the board would consider that there are other there is another collabrium cabum sorry in the town um St Vincent's Cemetery or I believe it's St St Vincent's church the cemetery Cy Street they have one there so not sure if the town really needs another one um I just I'm just asking just for consideration and then the last thing is it seems very clear after their presentation that this is being done in phases and it's going to move on after phase one if seems like if they sell a certain amount then they'll move on so I just hope the board considers how are we prepared for it to sit a certain way after phase one or do we have a timeline on that it's just something to consider it could sit a certain way the testimony that we're getting here today takes in consideration the whole thing being built so right but I'm saying in the after in reality they're saying they're going to start with phase one so just consider phase one to get the time it could take to get from phase one to phase two could be a number amount of years and sure and are you that it's going to look unfinished or what what's your yeah I mean is it going to just sit a certain way actually what we're going to do what the testimony I I believe I heard was the area that's un that's not going to be finished is going to remain grass but that's not going to stop them from getting rid of the gravel driveway putting a Swale putting additional blocking just something to consider I don't want to see a project and then you will have grass and then you'll have the finished and then when that grass gets done it'll it'll be closer but everything else will we have grown in by then okay so we're hoping that by the time this whatever you want to call it phase goes in the last phase those barriers of trees and and bushes will have grown up so that that won't be noticed by anyone looking at just something to consider I mean we can all hope for a lot of things and reality could be it could be sitting you know for well part of the obligation years still at Phase One okay part of the obligation of the applicant is when they put these trees and bushes and uh they have to maintain them so when we when we ask them to construct something uh get rid of a get rid of this this gravel driveway put a sell in put some some trees and bushes in that obligates them to maintain that area Okay so they can't destroy the swell at some time or they they can't take down those trees and bushes or if one dies they have to replant it so there's an obligation there to maintain so then that'll that'll leave me with my closing thought I highly encourage everyone here on the board to take a walk through the shrine to see you're saying maintaining but there's quite a few areas that have not been maintained there's garbage like I said in this donation box people just dump they put furniture they there's the the landscape the past at least year has not been upt like it usually is CL what kind of box is it's a clothing donation box but people leave yeah mhm and they did put a sign up um that says please do not dump but they' leave food there's been food left back there okay that's not good so I mean like I said it's kind of a hidden area that it's beautiful and it is peaceful I I'm just saying you know there's a lot that can be seen that uh maybe needs to come to light in terms of Maintenance okay well so maybe we can even the condition of of the drive of the parking lot itself I mean maybe instead of trying to build something maybe take repair what's that's going beyond our I'm just our Authority but I I can understand your concern and we can we can help by by emphasizing to the applicant that perhaps they should monitor that box a little more yeah because that is in in conjunct that is in close proximity to this structure right um so we'll make that a I can't put it as a condition but I can make that as a strong suggestion yeah yeah because we don't we don't want that to take away from what they're building there I I'm just trying to bring to light if they can already take care of what's existing you address these concerns with the people at the shrine other occasions uh we have you have you have no results from that we've talked to them no I spoke yes I spoke with uh would you come up and take the mic we do want it on the record and and we have to swear you in yeah we have to swear you in we swear you in you you have to be sworn in sir can you raise your right hand you swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God I do all right you're under oath okay thank you yeah I spoke with one of the the gentleman he drive the go the golf car uh the The dropo Backs it used to be in the front of the by the shrine and for some reason they move right in almost in front of my window when my wife SS okay so the people they constantly in the middle of the night they come people all all hours of T night dropping stuff okay in there it's been in news and and after that I spoke with a gentleman once and after that I never brought it up back again because he was going to give back to me okay he never did so I just left it alone well there's there's codes that every property owner in the town is required to follow which I'm sure I could I would like to make a suggestion if the applicant would be willing to because it I it isn't part of this application but part of this if if you feel that it might improve your public relation to the neighbors could you move that collection box somewhere away from their property okay because it is a nuisance of people are banging that thing in the middle of the night I I agree with you I think it's on a best efforts basis because I've read and heard and get involved in when they try to move those kind of boxes there's OB to wherever they want to put what I'm saying so like I understand that but move it away from a neighbor put it closer to your might offend somebody else or but where it was was at the front of the property where there was no no neighbor yeah there's no neighbor we want to keep it away from the neighbors do you know why it was moved yeah you have an idea why it was moved we moved it because the cars that are were coming in that they were on the way okay all right could you maybe find a spot that would be more we can there were two spaces and they wanted to save the like handicap the spaces there and that's why they moved it I asked the gentleman he says the person that comes in the truck to to pick up the donations he'll be able to like move it because I asking I'll move it my you know I will help you move if you want to you need you need a forklift or a back we got one but you know I was willing to work with them because they for some reason they just brought over here okay not a what was said to any of us you know kind of like I understand well we're trying to address that and I appreciate it no I appreciate it uh you know this may not be directly related but it is an issue and we and we want to we want to eliminate issues we want to beig good neigh all right okay I appreciate that thank you thank you um so besides what you've told us yeah and you've shown us on the photographs which I I definitely want us want you to give to us so we that sure is there anything else you want to add um the last thing thing it just came up when we were just talking about that um I know they're saying there shouldn't be interruptions with parking and traffic and things like that but I do want to make it aware that there are some Sundays and Saturdays that there that parking lot has been so crowded with cars buses come and there's so many that they have flaggers to to have traffic to get the cars to get out of the parking lot safely so just again something to consider I know they're saying maybe you know one or two people may come to visit their their loved one how do you know that one or two I understand what you're saying but that we can't speculate it's just again something to consider that's I understand I mean we can't address these issues because they're unrelated but I understand what you mean by traffic right and the testimony we've heard has to us that much addition I'm sorry I didn't mean to interrupt this project will just bring more you know more traffic more people coming and say they do have 800 niches you know they are successful eventually two people even if half the people come one person to visit at one time that's it's a lot of it's a lot of cars and how do you not know that they're not going to come during a mass you can't prevent you can't say you can't come visit your loved one during a mass so just something to consider that's all and thank you for your time I appreciate it could you hand us those sure can I ask question oh sure can we well first while you're asking the questions are you you don't have anything to do with the photographs or okay can we start looking at those while she's asking the questions because start them down there yeah and then we'll work our way down but go ahead the the attorney would like to ask you a question have you had any issues have you had any issues since the 911 memorial was installed no I mention that people might come on your site have you had any problems with that before we have had a c um some people Wander over and they apolog you know when we conent them oh so sorry we didn't know that this is part of your your um you know your private property because there's no division so it especially now where this is it's even closer so they're not going to know that unless you know they're not going to know where where to where they can and stop walking around the garden right and just so you know our goal is not to make it ugly or anything like that we want to make it very pretty and we're not going to have an unfinished project we're going to finish each phase and it will look nice I mean we want it to look pretty just like you do because it is our property too and our parishioners deserve a nice place to worship and okay with apprciate so our goal is to make it as nice as possible yeah um you know one more question for the board or everybody here is have the 911 memorial families been notified of this being built so adjacent to what are the1 I I mean I just no but there really there's no there's no real you're kind of sharing there just it's just honor it's a memorial honoring you're sharing their space now that really is just okay that's it um can I follow up with that is has there been I mean you know one or two people have walked on your property but has there been any consideration of creating some sort of obviously offenses be the only thing that would delineate the difference well they could as well but we can't we can't force the property owner next door to but was there ever they don't want the intrusion in understood but we you know yeah I'm just asking the question has there been any consideration on on the shrines part to put up a fence in between the properties to delineate where the property line no there hasn't been okay is it something that you would consider yeah okay so if uh it was something that we I don't know how you make that a condition yeah are you guys putting up arbites that's a natural barrier right the the barriers landc I think that's going to be pretty obvious looks like it looks like there already is some sort of little fence in between your properties not that but it's a wood area it's like it's like a wire fence it's been there since we bought the house like why are we having a fence we're not we are asking them if they would be willing to that was it they're going to do whatever you want because they want to get their project through so right but our is not reasonable either it's and it's going to be ugly it's going to just yeah I'm not I understand what you're saying Jerry we just want to make sure that visibly there's some there's a natural separation and water run up is not only natural but we're actually actually putting it we're delineating right now we're a swell and we're putting trees some other which will help delineate people in addition to an existing 50 foot wide wooded area yeah but the from what I can see here yeah I mean yeah no I and yes I mean I reason I think I don't normally speak up I I like screening you know I love it yeah I know that's but but this is beyond reason it's not reasonable no are you saying that when we're asking the swell and the additional things is reasonable that's reasonable okay has a purpose but that's fine area the question was just whether they consider ever considered it themselves I'm not saying they were re but if the if the if the neighbor isn't happy with intrusion then they neighbor well right all right um I have no further questions okay um now um after we've looked at these I'm going to ask if any me any uh a board member has a question pertaining to these uh photographs since we couldn't really see them that well right over there so okay uh just hold on a second sure um I mean uh we might not but who knows just want make sure that we're looking at everything here EX yeah sure for there's another thing might M okay the board members have had an opportunity to look at the photos yes you have any questions about these photos to the Witness n about those photos Okay I the applicant's looking at them so we'll see if they have any questions I appreciate it did you want guys want to look at those okay just want to make sure because I don't want to leave you out I couldn't see a thing this distance all right do you does anyone uh in relation to the applicant have a question about these photos no we did not okay have a question yes go ahead I guess did you uh have any photographs of the area before the uh the tower was there for 911 we didn't live there then okay well I guess of the property owners that before the tower was there what was that area like before the memorial 911 memorial Tower what was in that location before the memorial was built it goes it was just nature okay grass trees and and and was it unkempt then or was you know it was natural so now now that it's got so now that it's got this other uh you know Memorial place for remembrance uh is it maintained and kept in better condition than it was yes it is so okay great and as I mentioned we want to keep this a very attractive site anyway because we want our parishioners to enjoy the site it's the time to remember your I guess where I was going is now that this is going to be a developed if this was going to be a developed area uh it would be maintained differently just as the other site was different and now it's maintained differently that may be another reason to move that collection box because that's going to be right near the entrance to it you know you want to get that rid of that I eyesore next to this area too yeah we will look into moving the we will look into that because the traffic no I understand but there's other locations you could possibly put it um is that one of those things where they pay you so much a month to have it there no this a Catholic charity okay um col is there any way that you if wherever you move it could you put a surveillance camera on it to make sure that people aren't dumping garbage and things like that I don't know how we would enforce that though because even if we get it P no you could say you know this this area is is monitored because these boxes do tend to attract things that you don't want them to track and especially if it's secluded off the road nobody sees it just by putting a a camera there and saying this this area is is being monitored do not dump anything but clothing may may further uh deter people from doing that and if you put it closer to an area where the camera would be mounted you might get a less of guard that would be less of a burden on you to keep cleaning it up too I mean uh just a suggestion actually C that owns those bins they come and collect them right every mon but who takes care of the garbage that's put there that they don't collect you have to take care of that I I know that's that's what I mean it's more of a burden on you somebody throws food garbage things like that they don't take they're not going to clean that for you right okay I'm trying to I'm trying to figure out a way to reduce your bur I would recommend that they go to the town if it's if the shrine isn't cleaning this up which I don't I don't see that I go there I haven't G but if you go there and see garbage you should complain to the town right well I I'm just trying to give them a suggestion of how to prent it seems like we're going above and beyond no no I understand for unrelated to their application all this stuff is not it is it is tangentially related because it is near that property and it's near what they're building and it's it's something that if we can clean up now and address now it's it's it's an issue I don't want to ignore it in other words I understand what you're saying um but it it is a concern of the neighbors and it is something that is within that area that they're building I think we've done a tremendous job of validating the neighbors concerns no and and I commend the neighbors for bringing up the issues because we didn't we were not totally aware of the issue with their gravel driveway being such a issue with runoff and we weren't aware of the issue with your property so thank you for bringing that up because it does help us and the applicant build a better Lo build it better and make it less obtrusive to you and we do have a code enforcement officer on staff so okay and he's very good he catches everything he does he really does yes he does uh it's good to know I think he's he out of all the ones that we've ever had he catches everything that's good um all right things that he can see anyway he doesn't trespass let's put it that no no but um all right is there anything else you want to tell us that's it thank you you will now I don't I I'm not saying that we're done with the public because she went but is there anyone else that wants to make a comment positive or negative wants to make address the board uh with their either concerns or uh suggestions or comments about this project no okay sir come on up you're still under I okay no I just going to I Hope You indulge me I just just think about it we don't have to do anything tonight this is not a du or di situation that this have to be built uh immediately there might be other option that they they could be done they could they could you could take okay right because you have to be mindful that you know what it doesn't affect nobody else's my life is going to affect my life well we're trying to make sure it doesn't and I don't and you know you understand that you know what you you all simp I will I was going to say one more thing I have my two my two grandchildren right here I watch them 24 and7 and inan that parking lot they should I think they they should put a gate that they could close it at this 8:00 whenever there's no no nobody else going to church they should close it because that's an open space and you see people parked there 247 you don't know who they are sir those type of concerns should be brought up either to the police department or the town enforcement because they don't want that either I'm sure the applicant doesn't like that either and I'm sure they don't want people using their driveway or parking lot for 24-hour service that really does go beyond our okay no that I I understand all right thank you I appreciate it thank you good luck thank you okay all right anybody else okay I'm going to close it to the public would you like to make a closing statement sure I won't belabor the point but I think you heard that we do have a public interest at stake it's the burial of human remains remains if you will and we just want to provide a place for loved ones to gather and mourn and celebrate their loved ones oh I'm sorry thank you and as you heard from Mr michella we don't believe there will be any detrimental impact we did stipulate to a number of conditions that will mitigate any detrimental impact that could result from our project and we think that on balance allowing individuals to come here and more and celebrate their loved one is a better outcome than not allowing that and we think they will'll have minimal detriment on the neighborhood particularly given our stipulated two conditions okay of which that is taking up the gravel putting the Swale putting additional natural barriers for Sight right and sound the signage right any preconstruction meetings any fees we will change the drywell angle slightly to better accommodate the runoff like you said we will eliminate the gravel as part of phase one we will also add stabilization in a Swale adjacent to the property line and trees and bushes correct we will do the arbor VY the Landscaping will be done as part of phase one we will look into mov subject to the approval of our experts certainly and we will look into moving the donation box and we will if everyone's okay with it be installing little lights just to keep the pathways safe and we did stipulate to the maximum height of the Statue being 8 feet from floor from base to top correct and I'm not sure if you said adding the B regulations to the site plan yes we will revise the plans yeah well that's yeah that's a technical I think that was everything okay that we stipulated to okay so yes we are just requesting that you approve our application again this is for a D2 because we are a church and churches are not permitted in the C zone so as the board found previously we would hope that you find us inherently beneficial again and you would grant our requested relief thank you uh Jessica would you like to start the deliberations sure um so so I really appreciate your testimony it's very helpful that of your ad and also the comments and information provided by the public I I find that consistent with boards finding that the site continues to be inicial use I don't think that there's a change and I don't think that this use um changes the determination um that said going into you know the the public interest and the potential detriment um you think that there are some potential detriment but with what we've done here today we've mated those and so I do think that based on the in beneficial use the mitigation of any detriment that the benefits outweigh the detriment application thank you Gary um I think that it was really helpful to have the public and the Neighbors come and talk about what they're experiencing at the property and it sounds like neighbors who want this development to happen um and it's a slight change from what you're already using the propert indicated this is kind of something that had been in original kind of plan for things and I think you've gone through some Great Lengths with a lot of suggestions from everyone as to how toate any Dames or detriment that it might be doing to the neighbor property and and I think we've kind of done round on it and in general Jonathan yeah I don't want to there nothing much too much to add obviously with uh just appreciate your coming here and spending the time and definitely for the public as well for and for their children for staying up so late for this appreciate that as well um I think that uh you've shown that uh you meet the inherently Bene beneficial use and I I don't believe this has changed and I think that in terms of all the additional items that have already been spoken to I would be supportive of this application thank Tom uh I also really appreciate the public coming and speaking here tonight not only the testimony but the pictures were very very helpful and thank you for taking time Tom microphone yeah sure go close mistake let me repeat that I'm sorry I want to thank again the public for coming here tonight and uh making their presentation not only their testimony but I found the pictures to be very helpful and thank you um this is a czone variance for a SE Zone but again uh a church is a is a beneficial andly beneficial use and I think we're just uh expanding that a wee bit to allow for something that's very very inherent in terms of what uh Catholic parishes and and parishioners would like to have as part of their um services so I think that's a plus in terms of the impact on the environment I think there's just two one is the additional uh citizens coming on board to to spend time with their deceased loved ones I think those of us who have spent time in cemeteries know that we can expect very few people uh during the course of the year to be uh intruding into this not intruding but coming upon this area and secondly in terms of all the effort that's being done to uh put in the dry Wells are changing the direction of the drywells putting in this sale removing the gravel road it sounds to me like uh the uh impact on the uh neighbors will actually be less than it currently is so uh for of those reasons I vote to approve the application thank you merth okay well the first thing I was going to say is I really appreciate being able to look at these plans it's it's you know obviously a lot of detail and a lot of planning has gone into you know what you plan to put up in this a nice Serene and loving um commemoration of the living and the dead I think too that um the benefit of having this open hearing too is people from the public are able to come and and uh you know voice their opinion with the benefits or the potential detriments as well and the best part about them coming is you were able to really come together and and come up with a plan to you know offset some of those potential detriment and you've been so open and so receptive to that um a lot of uh um thought has been put into um you know how we can make make improvements to that so that um you know so that nobody's affected by it um especially neighbors so um I believe that the any potential detriment to this is uh outweighed drastically by the benefits and I would approve of uh this application Jerry well um I'm not going to add too much I think my colleagues have said most everything already but I do want to thank you for a great application and I think um as an applicant you did a great job of accommodating the concerns of not only this board our professionals but also of your neighbor directly to the west and it's been mentioned the swell um the redirection of the water uh the outlet from the uh collection system we've done a lot I mean the removal of the of the Stone Road uh you've actually done everything that was asked of you um so I want to thank you for that um of course I think that uh adding the uh column barium is definitely consistent with what you would uh find the services that a church would normally perform so to me there's no change in the use uh the way I the way I see that and it's definitely an inherently beneficial use um this is definitely community- serving it serves the public interest I don't see any detriment I see an improvement over the whole situation there with the water collection which doesn't exist right now it's going to pick up some of the water from the parking lot that's right now running sheeting across the neighbors's lawn um it's going to take that and redirect it where it doesn't hurt anybody so overall it's a it's a benefit uh to the situation there so I'm in favor of this application thank you Tom thank you all for coming tonight I want to thank Dr father Moreno and uh also the family from 1122 is that correct Long Hill Road for coming and uh it was very I don't want to say entertaining but enlightening to uh hear from the neighbors of the uh of the church about the water runoff and it was also very inspiring that there was no hem no HW sure we'll put in we'll put in a BM or swell whatever you want to call it uh so the positive nature of how this was responded to goes to to the positive the positive does outweigh the negative I believe uh the columbarium is for the less affluent and local parishioners of your church um so it is a positive for our Township and a problem that wasn't even addressed in this application is being eliminated to the benefit of your neighbors so all in all as everybody else also said that the positives outweigh the negatives and I'm very much in favor of this application thank you um I I concur with my colleagues that have uh discussed this uh in length I do believe that the uh positive uh criteria outweigh the negative and uh the even though it's not a permited use it's out it's out uh it was there prior to any permitted use being non-permitted or permitted um and I do believe this is a nice extension of what a Church does it provides things like this for the parishioners either in the form of a cemetery or in the form of this type of structure um I believe that uh you have bent over backwards and really have gone the extra mile to try to accommodate your neighbors um concerns which were valid and I appreciate them bringing them forward because it brought some things to light that we were not totally aware of because we don't live there uh for them to at least take the time to take those photographs as very good because we could see and you and the applicant can see things that you don't always look at or you don't always notice when you're there so um I you know do believe that there was a well-presented application I thank the the audience for their participation and I would be in favor of this thank you so do I have a resolution Mo I'll move it motion yeah I'll make a motion okay I'll second okay I'm sorry who was the second okay um Mr yes chairman yes M Brenan yes Mr GIS yes Mr flat yes Mr Rosenberg yes chairman GRE yes motion carries con thank you everyone you very very good thank youone all right yeah she's going to hold all I know sorry I think every every question have a motion to or oh yeah guys um I'm do I have a motion to adjourn so mve second second all in favor we adjourned