##VIDEO ID:GBLrSyGVH2A## took you know Simon and Schuster 10 years to get it on a bookshelf you know because they I'm not trying to put Simon and Schuster down because if you want to call me and take my books I'm more than happy to talk to you so is Jeff but you know it's just the the way the world is now you know we tend to do a lot of um independent things yeah yeah and and I I just felt that you know I wasn't interested in you know I'm not going to sell a million copies you know I'm not going to be a best well I mean I wasn't thinking that was my first book of course um but I said you know I just want something uh cuz like I said I I my original intention was to give this book to my mom for Christmas or a birthday or something and so I wanted this physical BK I wanted to feel like I had accomplished what I set out to do for my mom what a great feeling holding that first baby right that's right yeah yeah so I I I ended up going the self-publishing route and I I found that it wasn't it wasn't difficult you know I thought it was going to be really difficult process but um at least for me I know other people have had some some complic and things like that but it seemed to go pretty smooth for me uh you know just got to follow follow what the videos tell you and follow the instructions and I was able to get that first book and that first book when it arrived it was like the the I was like ecstatic you know I remember you open the box you're a little nervous to open it and you're like oh it's coming that's right that's right yeah and um and so you know I I proved that the proof copy that they sent me and I was like you know just feeling all giddy you know yeah uh and then and then boom it was live on on Amazon and I just you know I at first I didn't feel comfortable about this but looking back now was like it's perfectly okay I ended up sending out this blanket email to everybody in my work just saying hey look at what I just did you know and uh and I ended up getting quite a bit of sales from that so it made me feel it's hard to do self-promotion sometimes you know because you're like hey look what I did and then you're like oh did that sound too you know self-promoting but that's part of the job of an author you know is you have to promote your stories right and as for the size of the books um you know I I went through um Amazon and uh I I had no idea exactly what I wanted as far as the format of my books um I knew I wanted the physical paperback book and you know they give you a bunch of different options for sizes and I hadn't even been thinking hard cover or anything like that so I just picked a size I took actually I took out a tape measure and I went like this and I measured a bunch of books on my bookshelf and I and I said boy what's the most common one and the funny thing is is that they say that the most common book size uh for this genre is 6 by9 and yet I have this bookshelf you know I have this whole library and most of the books were 5 by eight yeah so I said well I'm going to go with 5 by8 because it seems like that's what I have so I I ended up picking 5 by8 and then later on um when I discovered that I could start making hard covers but through a different uh publishing um company uh they didn't they didn't have 5 by8 and I was like oh I couldn't do 5 by8 um but I didn't want the 6 by9 seemed really big to me and so I looked to see what both companies had that were uh the same size you know that were in common and 5 and 1 half by 8 and a half both companies had so I ended up uh doing my next books in five and a half by 8 and a half which allowed me to also uh print um hard covers as well so that's very cool so you can do you can almost go to two public since you're doing it yourself the same book yeah which is nice cuz if you're with a Publishing Company you're just kind of locked in just with them so it's nice that you can do that do did you use someone local no uh I mean I went through uh my first thing is uh through KDP which is Amazon's publishing site and then the other one was Ingram spark oh yeah um I've been looking into that Ingram Sparks we'll have to talk about that yeah I'm kind of interested in doing that because I know with Ingram Sparks as opposed to Amazon Ingram Sparks can help to move your books into libraries and to bookstores whereas Amazon you kind of stay online if you wanted to go into the Barnes & NOA bookstore you kind of have to Market it yourself to each individual bookstore sort of and now because I went through Ingram spark with with my later books um you know I can Barnes & Noble now carries my my later books and they wouldn't have done that if it was only through Amazon I just saw you at the book signing a couple months ago over there yeah you have are you doing the one in Westfield in end of September or something yeah there's there's another um art artwalk or something exact they always have some really great local authors yep I'll be part of that well I mean haven't been accepted yet but no but you you definitely participate in a lot of the the local events you know and then you know just marketing your books and and getting the sales out there it's it's difficult for like a local you know like because you're looking more a local sales and then when you throw it on Amazon of course we're going globally but it's still a whole another marketing twist yeah nobody knows you nobody's heard of you and so you know uh the audience hasn't read your books but they're going to they're going to click the links and all that stuff to get them but what I found interesting is you use some towns of Massachusetts like you know there's a detective in Southbridge um I'm trying to think what the other one I Southbridge jumps out at me but there is um Somerset Somerset yeah my my cousins are in Somerset did you specifically choose them for a reason I mean I know it doesn't say massachusett right it doesn't say Massachusetts yeah uh so actually there's more references to Massachusetts in my uh first five books the series that um you know but they're kind of hidden but uh with Southbridge I love that little tiny hidden things to find yeah uh it was completely believe it or not unintentional um I was just thinking of of names that sounded good and uh I was quickly looking at a map and I wasn't even looking at a map of Massachusetts it was more kind of the whole East Coast or whatever I was thinking England yeah yeah no and um and I saw Southbridge and it didn't even gwn on me that Massachusetts has a Southbridge so I used Southbridge without even realizing or without even thinking my head that wait a minute there's a South Bridge here in Massachusetts until um until the book came out and a cooworker of mine who grew up in Southbridge said why didn't you tell me the character was going to be living in Southbridge I could have told you all about it and I was like oh my goodness I said I can't believe I didn't even think that Southbridge was here in Massachusetts um so really the even though it's Southbridge you know and people can believe it's Southbridge m but in my head there's a South Bridge Nebraska if someone's in Nebraska they're going to think that which is kind of nice that it's can be kind of relocated yeah and I kept I I tried to keep the city very generic um just describing that it was a kind of a darker place kind and in my head I had you know like um the the older days of New York City where it was really you know crime ridden out that kind of stuff so see the Smoky streets yeah exactly so that was my head um as far as Somerset um I I didn't even realize there was a Somerset Mass until you mentioned it yourself so uh when I came up with uh the somerset psychiatric institution it was just I was thinking of what would be a cool name for a psychiatric institution that is dark but at the same time the the name of the institution makes it sound like it's a a nice refreshing place to be and I figured summer summer oh Summer Set summer and writing fiction we have the license to do that to create places which is really nice whereas I've you know had some guests on who do historic iCal fiction and who are actually you know writing you know biography things where you have to do the research on these towns so the fact that you know when we and I say we and I created timings Ley for April Rain it is just like that fictitious town but if if the town exists somewhere people end up having you know resonates with them which is nice and you didn't have to like actually do you know the research that sometimes requires permission yeah I mean I did do research not on the not on the name or anything like that I just came up with the name but uh I wanted it to be in a specific location so actually that is in Pennsylvania um but it's not somerset's not the name of a town it's just I came up with the name of a facility and then it's it's located in a different town in Pennsylvania and uh you know there's um I was once told by I was once told by a reader that I didn't put enough description of where where the location is so after that they want to go find it yeah so after that I decided I have to start putting where my stories take place you know yeah I so I go to Florida quite a bit to visit my cousin and I'll be down like in pu Gorda and um you know I I start taking little locations I'm like maybe I should set it here and I'm taking the local newspapers so I'm like yeah you never know maybe I'll you know use something from this but you know yeah it's interesting actually you say that because um in one of my one of my books uh I I opened up a map like I always did and I wanted my character to go down to Florida and I just kind of picked a place that was about 15 minutes away from the beach cuz I wanted my character to walk to the beach and I picked this location uh Coral Springs Florida Y and about uh six months later or something like that after the book was out um I went on vacation and we were going down to Florida but not anywhere there did you go did you do we're here for research I had no I mean so my wife was driving and we were going from one part of Florida to another and we were going to stay at this another another hotel and we're at um we were going out to eat to a restaurant and we're at this four-way intersection and I look over and I see this sign and it says welcome to Coral Springs Florida and I said I said does that what I'm looking at it and I I started getting all excited because I was like that's what this little confirmation from the Universe I had no idea that I was oh I beet my character sometimes like I'll go out and you know Jessica Briggs is the main character in a rain and I will I've had days where I like show up at place like hi my name's Jessica and then I go somewhere hi and I'm like why am I meeting all these jessicas today like oh my God I'm manifesting you into life what's going on yeah in the towns and stuff like that um so I I have so many more questions I want to ask you so you have you know this here is the Alphabet Killer yes um you know and I know that you know writing it takes a lot of time but you're also solving a crime yes where is the inspiration for these crimes come from oh the crimes just came out of my head I wanted this I wanted this unique uh killer um to be to be selecting his targets and killing them in very unique ways but that fit a pattern uh for the police to be able to follow so I was just um although it's all just made up in my head I I wanted to come up with these great ideas God you're writing it and not living yeah I started writing ideas down like how can this person die how can this person die how can this and everything had to be in a certain sequence you know the things if someone reads our notebooks or sees what we Google they're like what is wrong with that right right like I've Googled like how to transport a dead body over across state lines yeah right what are you writing that for so yeah I mean I could see someone seeing your list going oh how can I kill her this way how can I they're like what is Jeff writing about and I was also very fortunate to you know I teach martial arts and one of my students uh at the time when I was writing that book he was a captain in the police force he's now the chief of police so that's that's great um so I was able to reach out to him and I could text him any time do any of these stories have some martial arts in there do you have a character who's a martial artist no not happening yet come on you got to write what you know fifth degree black belt I mean people keep telling me that yes know it's amazing so you nine books are here on the table yes we have a 10th book yes coming out uh well I mean coming out in a couple few months I think okay so you're you're finishing that up so there's no stopping you now well I mean I'm going to keep going got to go at least for the Dozen or the baker's dozen you got to keep going I got to I got to reach reach as far as I can as fast as I can I guess before I'm gone right well we can't like Wayne Dyer side can't keep your music inside you you got to get it out so there and at a certain age I think we start a little Panic of going okay we got to get this out let's do it so where can the audience get your books and find out more information about you yeah so uh all of my books are available on Amazon um you can search out uh either my name Jeff Van Oden HOV which is difficult to spell yeah or uh javo publication j a v publication and all my books should be uh should come right up for you all right well I'm so glad that you came into the studio today so we could discuss all of this I mean we've been talking for years you know and and I'm just glad that we finally connected so that you know the audience can learn about you and your books and you know learn your writing process because it might help somebody else's writing process yeah I hope so thank you so much for coming in I really appreciate it thank you for inviting me and I want to thank all of you for tuning in to another episode of why right I appreciate you I appreciate Studio 954 for allowing us to have this show because each week it's just interesting and intriguing and inspiring and I just love the fact that we can reach out to you right in your homes or on YouTube or wherever you are subscribing to watch this show um this is the time of the show where you know I'm going to give you a writing prompt so what I want you to do is pick up your pen and I'm going to today go off of what Jeff had said about writing chapter titles and you know that's a really good jumping off point for someone who you know if you're writing a memoir or if you have a fictional story or you know wherever you want to be wri it might even be for business like perhaps you have to give a you know speech or give instructions to a class or to some employees you know start writing you know the bullet points but make them interesting chapter titles can you come up with at least five chapter titles that you know you want to write about and you know set your timer for five minutes and just get that pen on the page and start writing all right thank you so much for tuning in to Y right and I will see you next time [Music] a [Music] up fo all right guys we're all set we are all set all right stand by five four 3 two one good evening and welcome to the December 11th meeting of the school building committee um it's been a while since I've had to do this there you go cool um this is meeting is a hybrid meeting both in person and Via Zoom if at any point during the meeting somebody on Zoom wishes to speak please use the attention feature and Marty will uh acknowledge you and put you on the list um so call to order I'm opening up now for public comments anybody online for public comments do we know who M4 is uh that's uh Nicole okay thanks Nicole all right seeing none I would move to approval of minutes from November 13 2024 is there a motion motion to approve the minutes from November 13 2024 second there is a motion and there is a second any discussion seeing none I will go to vote starting with the people on remote Carissa yes Josh yes David yes Marty yes Arman epain ly oh sorry Lynn sorry about that L okay I had it like in my mind and then all of a sudden like okay uh Mar do we have any correspondence no correspondence no correspondence new business call your schedule update all right let Marty get it up on the screen here all right so I'm Marty's pulling this up um so we are currently in the schematic design phase um which essentially is the design team is moving forward with their design Dory and jwa been having a lot of uh meetings with some of the small groups uh within the district and so they're going to continue uh putting their documents together working with their Consultants um so on the schedule which is hard to read until yeah there you go already zooming in for us um So within schematic design we're going to be be uh early March is when the documents are going to be going out to the estimators uh these estimates are important because this is what's going to set our total project budget and this is what we're going to go to the town meeting with so we're going to be looking at these and reviewing these pretty thoroughly and making sure that we have you know full scope in there um the estimates are done properly and then we're going to have like a Reconciliation meeting with those estimates as well to make sure that they're uh on point so that's kind of what we're going to be doing in this next phase um again I said early March is going to be um when those estimates are going to be um start to be done perfect um there's any questions on the schedule any questions I'm good all right seeing none um moving on to next new old business completing discussion of the construction manager at risk design bid build we've all had a month to review the documentation um the we need to uh have a vote tonight on um what is our preferred uh methodology going forward um so is there a motion i' like to make a motion to pursue a construction manager at risk delivery method there is a motion is there a second second MO motion and second we are now open for discussion is there any questions or do we want a discussion could we pull up um Adam it provided some sort of additional side by side comparison so the previous slides just so everybody knows that's the presentation we went through last month so it's there in case there's any questions we can go back to it but I didn't want to go through all the slides again uh this evening um so and I also hand it out in case we can't read it on the screen the two pages that will go through this evening um so what I did was I put together um potential schedules for the two methods so the top method is for CMR which is construction manager at risk and below that is uh design bid build um that potential schedule so the way that CMR works is when you bring a CM on board um they join the team during the design phase so they're there to help assist with uh some of the constru ability uh Logistics um getting started with construction and they can also um put out early packages and early packages means they can start the project sooner so that's where the schedule up top that's why you see package 1 2 3 and four um those are the potential ways that they would bid out the project so with a design bid build you're doing one bid and that captures everything um and it's you know the low bidder and the low bidder GC has to carry the low bidder of the the filed sub bids um with a CM at risk again we can interview for a construction manager uh we can do the reference checks and all those types of things and bring them in just like you did in OPM just like you did for the design team um so schedule wise again they both consist of 18 months of construction so that doesn't change as far as how long it takes to do the project um what we're looking at here is being able to start in June of uh 2026 and what that does is that's right around the 90% documents um that where the design team is going to be so that allows us to have enough information at that point to if we are going geothermal to know where the geothermal WS are going to be um they be able to do some site work they can do some temp drives uh for the construction vehicles probably set up some temp parking if we need it those types of things uh and that can all be done over a summer so you're doing that when there's nobody in school you you don't have the parents dropping off and picking up um you're in the summer month so you have the the good weather on your on your side um and again you're not disrupted to the school this project is going to be you know it's right next door so no matter what we do while these kids are in school it's going to be a little disruptive that's just part of the process but we can get these early things done sooner and when the kids are not in school so we're looking at that from you know through the summer of of 26 and then we could even start um towards the end of that summer coming in and probably getting some foundations in so going through this schedule we could you know 18 months of construction brings this to January of 2028 when the school would have substantial completion and the way I did the schedule is once you have substantial completion um there's still some punch list no matter what method we go with you're always going to have contractors going in doing touch-ups tweaking things going back and maybe adjusting some of the mechanical systems those types of things um but with this method nobody's going to be in school while we're doing it so Nick you and your crew could get into the school kind of run through the systems make sure that they're working the way that they should be working anything that pops up again we're not disrupting to school we're not trying to get in before school after school to make some adjustments um it's all done while the kids are still in the existing School the same thing with the furniture move in I put that in April kind of April to May um and that's would be the furniture delivery and again as we talked about last month is the summertime is extremely busy for these um Furniture deliveries um so to schedule them we it's it's always super it's stressful and so what this this allows for is to have a a you know a little bit of a a cushion some more time to bring the furniture in make sure it's set up properly again there's punch list with the furniture as well they can go back anything that shows at broken nobody's in the school that they're going to be missing it at this point we have the time to get the furniture in and make sure that it's all exactly where it needs to be and that it's in good working order um and then the summer of 28 then we go in and we do and that's so the kids remember are going to be in in the Williams school this entire time so once they're out of school they're going to come in and they can demo the existing building do the abatement um and that will be done over the summer as well they can start working on the fields in a parking lot I imagine some of that works going to kind of come over until the next year but at least the major heavy equipment that's going to be out there as far as the Demolition and and all those things those will be done over the summer so when school starts up again yes you'll still have some work that's going on out there but it'll be minimal they'll be doing the field work and the parking lots and those types of things so that method even though and so with both methods because what we heard last month is that it's not advantageous to do a midyear move especially with two schools moving simultaneously into one school um to do that over you know a February break it's tough it's it's it's a lot of work it's making sure the teachers have enough time to pack their stuff to move it over to unpack their stuff all doing it while kids are still learning um so this gives you the opportunity to have the school be ready even when the previous year is still going on that we could allow the teachers you know as long as we have occupancy to come in if they want to set up towards the end of that previous year they can be setting up um so that's kind of the the CM at risk um and and feel free to stop me with any questions anybody has at this point um and then looking down below the design bid build um it's a pretty straightforward process again um we have to get through the 100% documents go through and in bidding and that brings us basically to December of 26 when right around then that we can start construction so um again you'll be starting construction during the school year um you'll be starting construction during the winter months um and that brings us to a substantial completion of June of 2028 again this the abatement would be the same thing be the abatement would be done over the summer of the existing building and the Demolition and the field and so on um but at the same time we'd be doing um punch list we'd be trying to bring the furniture in kind of all simultaneously and then also if the teachers have availability to come in and set up the classrooms all at the same time so that method it is again we're opening up the schools at the same time but the CMR method allows you to have the proper amount of time to get in and comfortably set up classrooms comfortably get the furniture in make sure the punchless is done as opposed to the end of the school year where we're trying to rush and do everything at the same time all you know simultaneously um so that's these are kind of the two schedule comparisons I know Lynn you asked what time does it save us again the the CMR route we could do an early move in we could we could finish the school you know the school would be ready and we could do like a February move in um but again that's those same challenges that it's it's a very tough thing to do we've done it on other projects it's it's stressful for everybody across the board um and Christian and Dory time if you have any thoughts on a midyear move as well um it's tough It's Not Easy yeah I don't think we've done one recently but um I mean even right the late summer move it all get stacked on top of each other yeah and you're often in there during punch list once the students are in so right so that's that's where that CMR just gives us it gives us a chance to get in there and I think at the beginning of the project when we're in there drilling trying to set up the tent parking lots set up the construction fence doing that over the summer when we're not trying to deal with parents and students and teachers and everybody trying to come on the campus at the same time I just don't want to start a project where we're trying to do all this at once while kids are trying to be dropped off or picked up I don't I don't think it's going to flow well and it's it's going to be a tough look for the for the project just starting off especially in December I think some of the other benefits to having a CMR versus a hard bid a GC is that um the C the construction manager is a quality based selection they do interviews you get to check uh pick which construction manager you want on your team and they become a team member they're also the uh firm that's going to be doing one of the estimates okay that um so the two estimates are done so they're actually putting the numbers together as the design team's putting numbers together as well so a little bit more attention to detail because they're going to be the ones turning into the general contractor on the project so you have the benefit of picking who you want not getting who is the lowest qualified bidder um and making him part of that team our team your team and then the other thing is that um they transition into the general contractor so there's a there's more unity in doing that than just having somebody come in and then relying on the fact that the the design teams documents are solid that there are no gaps in them and minimizing change orders through the process yeah and having that CM on board during that design phase like we talked about the logistics and starting construction they're basically going to be the ones that kind of come up with the construction Logistics plan so they're going to they're going to know where they want their lay down areas for materials they're they're going to come up with all that and so going into the project once it's ready to go they already have a plan in place so instead of design bid build what happens is you have your lowest bid they've reviewed the documents you know enough to put a number to it um but they're still going to have to jump right into those documents and figure out does this plan work or or shift on the Fly and you know those types of things so it's a much cleaner start to the process with a CMR and the downside is that they're a little more expensive because of all this so there's an extra cost cost that can be attributed to it I think right now the estimators are looking at 7% is what they're carrying right now um but we've seen them go even higher than that but yeah I think 7% right now is what we think is is probably good good in the marketplace right now as to a premium to pay on the construction cost which is not small but it's you got to weigh that against the benefits L um on the dates that you proposed here for the 18 months construction yeah are there uh any delays built into that at all or is that assuming everything goes exactly as it's supposed to essentially yeah the 18 months of constructions we feel comfortable with you know the way that it would go but no I didn't account for any sort of delays sure and we reached out to um some construction people some uh some general contractors as well as construction managers and has some given this the preliminary floor plans that we're looking at right now the site and all the logistics there um is is 18 months um reasonable or should be 24 months and they're all saying it's 18 months is is a very doable situation for this as far as you know the the the students staying at Williams in in their classrooms the the um the new building being built and then the transition over so I said that's very doable so but the between the two the CMR has more built in yes I was just going to say that so if something did go wrong we can you know it's it's going to be done almost you there's plenty of time bu bu in there there's wiggle room that's why I was asking that question yes because um I've spent a lot of time thinking about this since our last meeting I I don't take it lightly that it's significantly more money than design bid build but uh maybe it's some PTSD after coming out of two building projects during Co um nothing ever goes the way it's supposed to and there's a lot of uncertainty heading into the new year I I feel like um construction manager at risk is what we should be doing but um at least that that's where I am sitting right now um and I think that six months cushion that's built in here is going to be absorbed every other possible way and right um I think this schedule lines up better with just the practicality of what we're going to face right the other thing that a construction manager at risk can do is that we've had supply chain issu isues on a lot of things like generators and and electrical switch gear things like that they can actually pre purchase those items and have them you know online when they need them as far as a a GC just going to go we got uh you know six months before we get to see you know electrical switch gear yeah cuz generators and switch gear are close to a year right now yeah they're they're not going to same thing's happening at Bliss pool yep right yep yeah so if any of that gets delayed then cuz you could have the building done and no switch gear no generator you're not opening it doesn't matter yep well not switch gear and Generator it was electrical panel there yeah and there's things that pop up so this just allows for that cushion in there for it's a level of comfort that you're paying for basically and and also being able to select who you're going to have in there as your your construction manager right I think that's a that's a big my question is so we if we decided to go that way what's the next step is it Chad is going to do some kind of bidding we have to first go to the inspector General's office and ask permission okay and and that's usually you know a quick process they have what 60 days to review that but they're a lot quicker when they do that so you put that in you said we'd like to go with a CMR on this project um Inspector General will review it and get back to us at that point in time we then put together a proposal much as we did for the design teams and put that out to um uh interested parties that pre-qualified interest that they you'd have to pre-qualify to be a construction manager at risk on this project they' have to show us that they've done a project of the same size and scale um that they have experience in that a whole lot of list of things that they have to check the boxes on and and then at that point in time they'd be able to submit proposals on that that we'd um then be able to select from and then interview construction managers to select one we thought was best for the project yeah it'd be the same process so you you would set up uh a subcommittee again similar to what you did for does MBA have to vote on it too what's that does msba have to vote on it too or is this just a no no you just tell as as opposed to the designer selection panel at the msba they do not do that okay yeah all right perfect that's what I want to know and the other question I so the way you're just talking about it is they're going to be in the design process so this seems like it's going to be fairly quick that we have to do this like well get this in front of the Inspector General pretty quick to get the approval to move forward we vote on it to approve it we'd be this week sending you know a notific email or notification to Inspector General asking typically when they come on board is after the vote goes through for the project okay so that was going to be my next question about the funding of it would they come on early no so you so you would you would have your your vote right and if once it gets approved then you can go through you have everything they're not coming on until next November and we talked to a couple different uh like Al was saying a couple different firms out there and a couple of them have come on sooner for a very minimal fee and that would have to come out of your um FSA budget that we have right now your um feasibility schematic design budget okay if you chose to do so again you don't have to do that but typically it's when you go to vote um in the fall so there is something to be said to having this process done somebody chosen yep and then potentially bringing them on for some kind of contingency fee or whatever it is until we is an option as long as there's you know but the board would have to have another discussion about that but I wanted to make sure I understood the the funding mechanisms okay yep yeah but you don't want you're not going to put a contract together until you have approval from the town and they're not going to want to do any work until they're going to get PA correct yes it's surprising how people don't want to do work until they get paid Mar did you have something uh the ig's office review what would be some reasons that they might not allow a construction manager at risk approach is it is it kind of a formality to go through that process I've never heard of a project getting denied if they want to go see them yeah um you know yeah okay I I I I'd like to answer that question but I don't know I mean I just don't know what what is the the his threshold for saying no sounds like just a formality well not more I mean he's going to look at it and and and say Here's what the project is here's it makes perfect sense that you're doing a consolidation of two middle schools you're putting it on one site there there's a lot of the logistics of the project would would you know suggest that a CM at risk is is a proper thing to do here I I don't know what his his reasoning would have to be to some other district for saying no to it um I've just never seen it yet dor you had something I that question about when to bring them on um you know we've seen it done both ways um one factor that is worth being aware of or thinking about is the potential role they play in supporting a vote um in answering questions um because often as contractors they can they can alleviate any concerns residents have in a different way than a designer does in answering questions I don't actually see a lot of reason on this project that that bringing them in early is a significant help um but I do think CMR the other thing in addition to you know those lead lead time issues we're we're finding increasing challenges with uh the utilities getting the utility lined up for projects CMR helps on that because you can start kind of knocking on doors and really committing to a project with the utility a little sooner so that's super helpful nice so those are just a couple extra points I figure it'd be Nick and a bobcat but can make it happen all right one more U so the potentially fewer change orders so you're reducing potentially your exposure to change orders is there any data historical data that tells us by how much you're reducing that exposure no only because you would have to compare the same exact project and you don't do one project both methods both so it would be so hard there's way too many factors between one project that did it design bid versus a CMR yeah even if it's super similar it's it's too hard with so many reasons yeah can I F is there a percentage difference though on the total cost of a project under a design bid build versus a CMR that you could show like this is the that's the 7% Tom that we're talking about that that that's what the estimators are carrying right now compared to what percentage on a design B build would you say well I think our our last estimate that we're looking at was we around 112 million is that right one for the project 116 looking at the construction cost the construction cost would be 116 that would be what a hard bid would be a a general contractor would be what the estimators are saying to us if you win a CMR you'd add 7% to that number so that would increase that to whatever 7% times one 116 million is but I was asking on the change orders what the percentage of a yeah traditional design bid build versus a CMR that percentage wise of the project you get change orders on under both approaches just if I understand the point you don't build both the the tricky thing Tom is that you once you've committed to the the cost of the project and you have an agreement for that amount you tend to want to use it so um you know in that you want to get as much value out of that that commitment of of public commitment that you can so it is we do see the CMR project having fewer change orders where in a design bid build you may be you have subcontractors who are looking for something that was missed in the CMR process you're going to catch a lot more of that so there aren't going to be as many of those incidences but that doesn't mean that you as the owner at the end because it's your money that's left on the table there whether it's under their contingency or yours you often want to use that so how do you get that sometimes you may be adding in you know um elements to be sure that you utilize all that so that makes it very hard to kind of get at the end uh figure out how different it is right I would argue that's another benefit of seeing at risk is they're able to map out so we're working with them with a CM at David proudy high school right now and they were able to kind of we're early on in the scope of the project we still have a whole building to demolish you know there's lots of unknowns still out there but looking at the contingencies we have on the owner side the contingencies that the CM has in their numbers they were able to add their influence to the project and say we feel comfortable saying yes to irrigation to the football field right now which was not included in the original number but because you know we're feeling good with the contingencies we know that's a priority for the district we're able to plan for it now which we have to do now even though we're early on in the project I think with a GC you don't have that same reassurance and so I think as a district they would have been much more reluctant to have pulled that trigger to pay for that irrigation so if I'm understanding you some of the change orders percentages might be skewed based on their add-ons that you want not needed El of like okay yeah I see it's a very different thank you that 7% premium that's not excluded from the reimbursable costs through msba no that would be part of the reimbursable part and parcel of the reimbursable uh expenses for the project so it's really like 60% of the 7% like 4.2% or are you already grossing up I was grossing up I'm basically saying that that msba will look at it that okay it's a CMR project okay so you're you're 7% on top of the 116 that we're talking about that's what they would be looking at for the construction value and they would give you whatever your reimbursement rate is against okay the inflated inflated number okay good question yeah any uh questions or comments from the home crowd I'll go um I think I've been thinking about this a lot and uh I mentioned at our last meeting that I am uh reticent to to spend money when I uh we already got a big Bill we have a lot of um money coming off of our tax bills for uh bonded stuff but we got more coming on and this is going to be a big chunk and if money was the only factor I would say we should do design bed build but uh I I think almost as important as timing here and the CMR seems to really make a difference to me I I I will admit that I I think that the the presentation to us you know it's a little heavy-handed on pushing us towards CMR which is fine cuz I I do think it's better um but uh so I I even if there was some leeway on both of those dbb could be better CMR could be a little worse I think in on the whole CMR we've come out really ahead and people are going to want to see it open and I don't want the L it I wouldn't want to lose a year or be scrambling at the end of the year to try to get people in so to me that is what ways it brings me over The Edge I also talk to my friend Ryan Quimby who's the IT director East Long Meadow and has been working a lot on and their High School build and they went CMR and they were told that the um or their understanding was that this the CMR overruns or uh extra cost would be pretty not as significant as 7% I know that's signif or a conservative number we've been given um but I I am also hopeful that uh it in the end the carrying costs will be made up for with the uh by getting ahead of things and um and also having fewer design changes so I I have put a lot of thought into this and uh I think CMR is the way to go good thank you anybody else Carissa I've just been kind of listening and taking it all in because again this is not part of my world my expertise um but I I think right the timeline and just the ability to have everybody kind of on board all at the same time and part of the team all together we have a great team so if we can get a great person in there to lead this next part and just be with them for the duration I think that's really going to go a long way um towards meeting all of our goals so I'm also so yeah with Josh yeah I think I would Echo everybody's comments about what they said so far the only thing I might add is like the design bit build scares me from the lowest bidder perspective just like who's out there throwing around bids and then we're the huge change orders and the quality work isn't the same I just think for me the CM at risk seems to have a better holistic approach working hand inand with the district through the process um that and the whole um being able to interview locally and control those questions and the interviews that just makes for me it makes a lot of sense and and since we're saying that a portion of the fees would be reimbursable it it makes it even better for me in that perspective so that's just my thought do we have any more discussion any thanks Harman I would just reiterate from the last meeting I know you weren't here but similar to what you were saying I see it as commercial contractual leverage with that construction management team they've been in the meetings throughout meeting minutes have been issued to them later on they try to come back and say they they weren't aware or they didn't know or this wasn't as they understood it you have the documentation to to demonstrate that that's not the case I see there being tremendous value in in having that Leverage and and that maybe that looks like opportunity as Dory was saying you know later on I also see it as meaning we don't have to uh concede on certain items to stay within budget saying the same thing but just maybe slightly different context but you have the time to take a good decision and you have the budget to take the right decision as opposed to compromising and sacrificing some some detail that maybe not everybody will notice but really is material in the finished product yeah that's that's I would agree that what what we like about it I mean and we to be honest we've done a lot of design B build and if you went that way we would absolutely get get you a great product through that process it's a uh it's a different process and it feels very different but we are used to that too and we know how to kind of uh be Bulldogs on those types of processes but I think to that point it's that having them engage they will see things in a way we don't and help us to to maybe make you know because they'll see sequences of work and things that then we can read we we can address prior to the documents being actually executed in a way that makes sure that you get better value I think for all of those designed goals um so because they're working with us on that aspect of it I think that does have value yeah awesome any other comments seeing none I will call for a vote on the motion that is in place and has been seconded to go with the CMR resr I'll start uh with the Carissa yes Josh yes David yes Lynn yes Marty yes Armen yes motion passes want to sound like Becky motion passes the affirmative effect nobody can repeat that better okay um Christian is we hand it over to you for review of the leads chip certification options and vote on the preferred yeah I mean I guess to jump to the final slide first is that we well here but to set the conversation is that um tonight we would like a vote on whether to proceed with uh lead vers chips uh there's two different options that the msba allows for um lead is well known um us Green Building Council runs it um has done both you know they have commercial and uh for school particular ratings um New England chips chips started in California um as the California high performance schools now it is the collaborative for high performance schools and this is the New England version um we have done both um we found that it really is kind of which one is most responsive um as of late that seems to be us green billing Council and the lead program um so I think that is the direction we'd steer you but we also wanted to go through just in general sustainability goals a lot has changed in Massachusetts um with the code updates um and so it's a good opportunity to kind of bring the the bilding committee uh up to speed and and the general public in general um up to speed on the on the latest and greatest want me to go yeah sure okay sure all right so we're going to run through the sustainability priorities some of which you we've spoken about but this puts it all in one place so you can refer to it tell people about it later and it's important to kind of talk about it in a larger sense of sustainability because there are ways in which these things have started to overlap and become more complicated by building codes as well so in general you know overview of why why are we doing these things why does it matter uh this is largely about uh these four factors you know how you're going to help students achieve better performance in the school and retain staff and use the building as a teaching tool that's the sort of end results of of the educational side of it but for the community there's often value here in knowing that this building aligns with your community sustainability goals um and it sort of Fosters larger Community well-being because of the Ripple effects of development um costs uh it's really uh there are costs associated with sustainability but there's also costs associated with maintenance and operations of the building so this really forces a kind of a look at all of the picture of cost and and helps you to be sure that you're prioritizing your investment and then climate a lot of the sustainability is also about aligning with both state and National um kind of climate goals and concerns and talking about the reduction of the the carbon footprint of the building so just generally why these things matter moving to the next slide what's gotten complicated is in Massachusetts um the idea of lead certification began under the Patrick Administration for public buildings uh and has then sort of become uh a requirement within any Massachusetts school building authority funded project but since that's happened the stretch code has has started to kind of pick up and become more stringent so now you see that we have these requirements for um lead or chips that touch on many of the same things that are also touch on by the stretch code and then touched on by the municipal opt-in code and then also you have these incentives that prioritize certain things and now you have Federal and utility incentives so it becomes a very complicated picture and what we often find we're trying to do is really align all of these things in a way that makes sense for your community um and and doesn't sort of overburden the project um and that helps to actually decide some of the priorities here um so this is just a quick look at a scorecard and both programs have a scorecard the point of this is that you're actually determining ahead of time in the design what your priorities are you have to achieve a certain number of points in the end but you can it's flexible you can decide which ones are the points that matter to you and you would think that you know well you just pick the ones that matter well there's a lot of factors that go into the decision making ultimately um and we we aren't presenting a completed scorecard yet um the idea is that there are some things that are incentivized by the msba some some things that are aligning with your code requirements um some things that might be priorities for you as a community so we ultimately will'll we'll determine that with you um we want to achieve those that that minimum requirement in order to get the extra reimbursement that the msba is offering um and then there are some there yeah again there's some Financial factors here that we'll kind of go through as we get to that so again with the msba the minimum requirement now is that you achieve a silver certification level with either program and and within that that you prioritize um three specific credits that are focusing on air quality because remember the point of this is also well-being and the msba has been you know kind of uh investigating the impact and they actually asked all the designers how we felt if they decided to prioritize this and we said well we've been prioritizing them already so because these are things really impact um air quality in schools which affects student performance so three points are required very specifically beyond that you have some flexibility the other requirement for this is base level of certification is that you achieve stretch code which we already know so then the just touching on that cognitive impact can I ask a question sure so you said ear in earlier meeting that we have already priced for the opin code correct so where does that get us like as a baseline on the leads or chips now or does it so it means that we have to be a silver we have to get this these three points we have to get as designed is it already at like this level or right so in our assumptions you mean cost-wise are we planning for I don't even care cost wise I just mean like planwise we will we will get to one of these standards within what you have said the reasonable estimate is at this point exactly yeah yeah yeah so going to the next couple slides on then so obvious there's a cognitive reason for the air air performance issues there so um but then there's also just I wanted to mention some other things that become factors there's now climate resilience requirements by the state that that really sort of make us want to focus on some of the storm water and heat island effect priorities which are within both of those programs so those also become things that we may choose to do um moving on to the next slide is talking about how now can you go back to that for a second so as we were going before Town Meeting those were like listed as like really bad things in town so but from the what you're saying from like from using tree canopies and plantings and the way we design the space we mitigate that type of effect right well that's that's exactly so there you know all of those are factors so we muddy areas that are on the side of the location today can be mitigated through storm water mitigation as right and and and this this analysis and we ran this analysis in the last phase of the project um indicated to us some priorities based on where you are as a locality where the site is that would indicate that we have to focus on storm water ex to to level so that means that's going to align with that priority in the leadership system and Etc you know so and we join those up with the priorities of the town so like DPW like we know Woolworth can't handle any more storm Waters or just for example like and then we just go out someplace else or something else okay right and that's why that flexibility so we'll go through that based on this and say okay these are our priorities and then beyond that what are the other priorities okay um so again also to achieve that that base level with the msba reimbursement we have to achieve stretch code and we've talked about these things before but just to reiterate that that's really focus there is on on a tight envelope and efficient systems um plug load management which is kind of a new challenge of the code um PV Readiness EV charging of 10% demand response capability these are all things that are new in our stretch code that that all buildings would have to commercial buildings would have to achieve but now to the next the msba incentivizes you to go beyond this to the three 3% additional reimbursement and to do that um we would have to meet your municiple opin energy code um but we would also have to achieve um uh some additional um specific requirements of the leader chips program um so we talked about the municipal opt-in code already which is essentially discouraging um uh fossil fuel use in the buildings right so it's all electric which again aligns well with uh the mba's additional reimbursement you get 3% extra if you had that direction so that's the direction we assumed for this project already um based on the alignment with your local priorities um and because it gets you that extra money for an additional one% though um we would then try and Achieve five out of seven of the indoor air quality categories and again we don't feel that's difficult well it it's harder than three um it gets a little tricky but we have thus far leaned in on that um so it's just extra there are a variety of ways we can get there so we don't NE necessarily at this point have to say which we're confident in it um and we think that that extra 1% in the cost of this project is worth it and those points if we went back to your scorecard above we'd see how you achieve those points um not yet not until we complete it because once you decide yes yeah later on later on we'll we'll say okay and and part of how that decision about which credits we go for ultimately happens there's those things that you prioritize as a community for various reasons so some of which are are incentive based but then there's also factors that influence us which are hard to report and easy to report which actually have a positive impact on the school and the students you know there are some things that are sound good but they're they're very very difficult to do they're very difficult to report out they're kind of and we can replace it with another thing we may still achieve it but the reporting itself is is so burdensome we would rather achieve something else um and it doesn't necessarily um kind of inhibit us doing it um so there so there are ultimately a lot of things where we discuss this is the way we want to go and this is the forec card for this project Marty do you want to go back up to the scorecard real quick I I just think that it helps explain so we're going to get to more of that on the duve tail so under energy and atmosphere there on the bottom left so optimize energy performance is really where meeting that stretch code ends up getting you a lot of lead points as well so it's you know two different systems but by meeting the math stretch code you're getting a lot of lead points there and then on the right hand side both under the materials and resources category and then particularly under that indoor Environmental Quality again you're meeting them the msba requirements but that's getting you more points in that particular lead category um and as Dory mentioned are good things to do for the benefit of the students anyway but that's how the two kind of systems overlap well I just think from a covid learning experience right indoor air quality is something that we all can acknowledge and get behind I think yeah Massachusetts has fairly strict requirements on um water use in buildings so the water efficiency we get a lot of those anyway so that's what I mean it's like a lot of it has pushed the code and now it's kind of become normal and and we achieve silver fairly easily at this point um that's why the msba moved the bar a little bit on everybody F on the slide um I think it's that slide right there not that one the one sorry right above it where it says estimated basis of total facilities Grant yes does that mean the entire you'd get the 3% on top of the whole project not just these improvements no just just a grant from the msba you get 3% on top of the grant right your reimbursement rate goes up by 3% that's yes reimbursement for the entire project for the entire for the entire eligible portions of the project right so in combination though then you've get the the you get additional four here you actually get a few other points for good maintenance procedures and things like that so so that all factors in have there been any recent projects that haven't done this yeah so I'd say in towns that are are not adopting the municipal opt-in code um and that have recently well and Spencer we actually the community had recently purchased their boilers so they were really really reluctant to go all electric okay um and the code was just coming out so in that discussion they said we don't want to be bleeding edge we don't and we want to take the value of these boilers um the reason why that was off you know difficult is then you actually have to plan for the eventual removal of the boilers and eventual electrification of the school at the same time so it's you're spending money that you're not achieving the value of at the time so it's it's becoming more of a deterrent to do that um but there are some communities um that are going to lean that direction okay so um so we talked about again the other stacking on value is that these incentives are ultimately worth uh you know several million dollars to the project then there are the other incentives coming from Mass Save and the F Federal Ira that are helping to pay for um all of those all electric resources that you're you're putting into the school which is again a reason why the msba is is incentivizing the all electric pathway as well um so that gets us into the difference between lead and chips that we wanted to talk about um so there as Christian you know you've probably handled this presentation men several time already they're comparable programs you've probably heard of lead you probably have not heard of chips lead is much better uh known it has a larger um Team behind it which we've noticed um chips we have really liked that it's got some prioritization on indoor performance in a way that seems really aligned with uh with our values but they both do um uh it's just a little harder frankly to get some of the the the credits that um we care a lot about um and we have definitely done both projects um uh so there are some things that are unique to each you see a little bit more in the chips that are things that Educators might like you know educational display um uh uh crime prevention is actually something in the chips program that's not in the lead program but we're going to do that anyway so that's not it shouldn't necessarily be a determinant um Tom I want to say we did chips for the school on that really bad air handling system I don't remember which program we used I don't think we went lead but okay yeah like we did something for some extra points chips is when did chips come in because really new compared to that the age of the high school say yeah it's I would say it's probably in the last 8 to 10 years okay far more projects do lead in the msba universe um I think it's just better known primarily but um then if you go to the next you can see a little bit of the uh the different categories so they just kind of break things down a little bit differently um Christian was showing those but here you have their six categories um and then chips makes it a bit more complicated um and uh but they're they're they're relatively comparable um so that shouldn't really be a factor um moving on um this is where it gets a little bit more interesting uh so usgbc has a very large um portfolio of projects that they've been watching for a while again National as opposed to California based um uh New England chips has there's California chips and New England chips I'm not sure if there are others um but there's just a larger um history behind lead um there is uh two different certification systems so you have somebody at the other end you have these ligations to me you have to create documentation and upload it and then you have to work with them to be sure that that's you've met the requirements some of these requirements are requirements for the district and the design team and the contractor I bring that up because that's often the biggest problem we have is completion of the district's paperwork and we find that to be more burdensome on chips than on lead um and that can hold you up and the reason that matters is because it impacts you getting uh closed out on the product and getting what's a for instance that our district responsibilities uh coming up with uh District policies that no uh fossil fuels will be used in a building like that I want you to bring a lawn nowhere through the building right but you have to have that passed by a school committee it's got to be on letterhead Etc enrolling The District in um uh Pest Management yeah Pest Management is another one where you need another District letter um enrolling The District in some of these National programs where you're only going to buy energy efficient equipment going forward um the bar it's not such a big lift but it's just it's more than what you know it's more work for the district for sure and then if it's difficult to move things through at a school committee level then the bar becomes much higher thank you whatever's less work for Tom Ian up Ian hi I just wanted to clarify with the uh scorecard so it says that the silver is the new minimum required by msba have you guys found with projects that are either ongoing or completed that the school districts are aiming for the silver just because it's the minimum requirement or could you speak to any examples where you've had school districts go for gold or platinum and what that looks like I I will speak to some of them that what we found is um lead silver is just uh good done by good practice uh what's what's the the design team uh would normally deliver as as a as a good practice where when the the other schools that um go for these these extra points they end up with gold you know they Silver's just you know basic services these days that um that's what is expected in the industry by and far especially on schools it's also important to know that they're constantly changing the programs and upping them as people get there that's one of the interesting things about the whole process is it's actually improve building performance well one would say it's improv the aspiration for building performance because some would say that you know they they have these systems and yet in reality some things have not not changed enough so they're they're always moving into new territory right now there's a push for more measurement of embodied carbon in buildings and that's coming out in the next realm of usgbc lead 4.1 there a higher expectation on that so the the the table's always moving a little bit in in useful good ways it makes it challenging so even though you may get silver now and we'll still achieve silver it's it's not an easy thing ever I think what we were pointing out is the alignment of the municipal opt-in code and the incentivized all electric that also all electric schools have a higher efficiency of systems um from an energy standpoint um and that inevitably gets you more of these points so I would agree that it's if you go for this anyway you're going to get there in terms of how recently is this shift happened this policy of the msba just changed a year ago right technically about a year ago so it's all new territory there are a lot of schools that are now embracing um those that more incentivized um 4% addition uh uh we're doing that on East Long mle High School um and we would expect that any town that that again is leaning in on the stretch coat is going to go that direction I don't I think it the the amount of extra investment you're getting pays for a lot of what you're you're you're aiming and having to do so in Westfield they just finished up a school of Franklin uh Avenue school and it's uh it turned out to be leag gold um it it was it was definitely going for silver as their Baseline but uh it it all came together as being legal and we typically set a higher bar for ourselves because then you can let points go if you don't need them um so you're always starting out with a a bigger goal than you have to achieve I was curious achieving these higher level status or reimbursement does it cause any operational issues or long-term maintenance costs that the district will have to either plan for I mean Armen refers to our air handling system here in the high school and I'm just curious like are these systems so complicated and so challenging because they're achieving these goals that they're difficult to operate Andor are expensive to maintain my personal feeling is that it's not the certification that would be triggering that it's the code okay yes systems are more complicated and more expensive than they need to be yeah and unfortunately I I don't think that that's related to lead especially not related to going for the additional 4% okay it's really the the code requir so it's going to happen either way no matter where we land we will do our best to mitigate it and you know do the best we can but yes but yeah and I we can't say that uh you know you know we were talking about the um the new code requirement that you're um actually turning a you have a lot of U control turning off a lot of your Outlets um it's an energy waste issue and it's it's code driven you know it happens to kind of align with these things so there are a lot of these things happening now that are you're hearing those frustrations amongst other school facilities people and they're coming from this this push and the technology will catch up um so there's not much we can do but try so I don't think we go voluntarily grabbing on to something that's going to make your building worse through the certification process and all well yeah and I just check it up we are the high school is chips verified leader oh it's chips y I kind of remembered that that's great but the problem was as Tom was pointing out that we got there by choosing that ear handling system which had been untested otherw so we are very hesitant to go down a path that does not lead to a proven technology because it just causes Nick's team heartaches and everybody else and I feel like people have stopped caring about getting a lead plaque on their building they want systems that work so it's not we want systems that work but that are responsive to the environment as well I mean you so yeah if the target was lead Platinum I mean we'd have a different conversation about you know the cost impact and and and the change in culture that would have to take place in that building for sure we've gotten lead gold on two projects and I'd say you can get lead Gold by just spending more money and those two projects it just happened to work out we did a historic renovation in North Adams so just having a historic renovation got you a ton of lead points it was in a downtown environment that got you a ton of lead points and then we did it you know well performing school and so we ended up getting gold so you know there's outside factors that can play heavily on that score card can you give examples of how you can achieve the lead certification but also have systems that aren't overly complicated and that are easy to maintain and replac down the road are there examples of that that you can give or well I mean I will say that part of why we are leaning in on the geothermal is that in comparison to the um air source heat pumps um it's a it's a more reliable replaceable system that doesn't tie you to a particular vendor for all of that equipment um it's in a sense more open source so that's got nothing to do with the certification systems that's just those are the decisions that we we kind of want to talk about and and we have a whole process of studying the life cycle analysis of that equipment with you to help in that decision making but it it it is something that we see as a concern yeah I can think of a lighting control system so we did a school in 2018 and it was right when the code changed and we thought only way no luckily not quite that bad but still we thought that the only way to achieve that code requirement of having all the lighting respond to Daylight controls occupancy sensors time management was to have each and every fixture be able to be controlled from a network situation sounds great in practice the facilities director it was a very small school district would unplug the computer whenever you got overwhelmed and the lights were on at midnight so um the next school that we did we were able to work with our vendors to find a system that still met those code requirements but was simpler so it's that you know like can we meet that but still make it as simple as possible and and we've had you know much better success since then or achieve the points and areas that don't create complicated solutions for sure right yeah uh the there are uh costs associated with the registration and uh review of all of this uh and the cost difference is a is a bit of a factor in the grand scheme things not that big of a factor um uh and this is a part of the process we go through kind of get you registered um again as we mentioned usgbc has a larger staff and their I think what we're seeing is that the fact that they charge more is is why they're more responsive you they they're putting more money into the program so with chips we we've struggled a little bit lately um um so that's our overview are there any specific questions because once you decide we do want to actually get to having that conversation with the district or any committee about your priorities but um but first we just want to pick one or the other and go with and I believe I did send you all some links in a month ago and the if you to look at uh their websites and read more about them if you need it so my only question would be from your your opinion which one would you advise us to go to as uh you know again so I know you're going to say like either is fine but we've gone back and forth over the years it has been interesting when we did projects maybe six years ago lead was going through a big transition and was not being responsive at all and we went with chips and we had a great relationship with chips for two or three projects now I feel like the tables have turned and lead is in a very good position in has been much more responsive whereas we're struggling to get consistent answers from chips on previous projects so for that reason alone that combined with the district and L work on the district fewer Hoops to jump through leads us to recommend lead despite the additional cost okay that's my question somebody make a motion make motion have this Middle School building project comply with the lead sustainability certification in order to meet the funding agreement requirements of the msba motion is there a second I'll second second there is a motion and a second now open it up for discussion sorry my quick question I probably missed it the opportunity in terms of of incentives between leads and ships same it's exactly the same yeah they just pull different credits but they're aligned credits okay all right so then it really comes down to the administrative aspect between the two programs pretty much unless there was some very specific thing that that mattered in the district that was unique that that you know which plaque you want on yeah any other questions discussion seeing none I call for a vote J yes Carissa yes David yes Lynn yes Marty yes Armen yes thank you all right next on the agenda we have the creation of advisory groups um so uh talk to Marty outside of this I just want to start some conversation out that I think we have an are in and we talk to just briefly about we we definitely have an area of a need for at least two advisory groups to start I think um one would be the site and site and sustainability um Advisory Group um the other one I think immediately would be parks and wreck or Recreation fields at the the at the school athlet athletics for last last of better word Athletics and activities I'll call it could be indoors or Outdoors [Music] um so I don't have any predisposed Notions on how these should work they would be in my mind they'd be advisory only to this committee to the voting members of this committee um I'd be looking for I think that we set up there be two chairs of this advisory so one of the nine voting members I think really should take a lead as a chair of the two committees um outside of that I really don't have any more you know formal structure thoughts that I have around it I wouldn't make them very very large I would think we would advertise for people and um my initial thoughts was if it was the will of the committee as a whole that um basically we would have Lynn from the townside Marty from the school side myself as chair the three of us looking at people's applications and making decision as to who goes on what committee that's just one potential way um just putting that out there uh I know how busy you two are so I don't want to speak for you but um but I'll open it up to to discussion about you know specifically those two are there other advisory groups that people think we need to have immediately uh or the the makeup or anything else so I'll open up the the floor now I just have a question on when these groups would be meeting and and what they're actually doing um are they starting now and are they advising you as you start getting into design or or not advising you advising this group um yeah I think generally what what we've seen work well is as working groups that can we can present the details for instance on lead and chips and the points and some of the requirements and recommendations and go we we go through all of those things with them and then share what we're looking at so they can pre-screen some of that and then we can finalize that checklist and then bring it back and you know let the committee know but the whole committee doesn't have to sit through all those PowerPoint presentations and reviews there are some required charettes that you have to do for lead that you have to call together representatives of the district so they would actually be party to that conversation on the working group for for uh Athletics that we do need now so we've gone through recently meeting with all the faculty and and doing um kind of reviews of all the interior plans and making revisions on that and we did great work with the PE teachers but we kind of stopped at that question of okay there's other things that the community cares about on this site how do we get at those decisions about design so we we do need that voice starting in January um to explore what the committee's priorities might be there and I think in terms of frequency of meeting I personally think that it's best that we assume that we engage them when we need work happening it would only probably be once a month and then when we don't we don't you know so I I I wouldn't I would say a commitment of of once a month meeting when we are in in operations is probably sufficient and there may be times when we don't even need need that much but that means in SD we we need them you know say twice um and maybe more if they needed to get going on something right away but then in DD they would also we would re-engage with them again probably in revisit issues because there's there's kind of work at every phase and then it typically stops by the time you're into construction do 30% do we need them to have like a standing Advisory Group or could we just have like ad hoc focus groups so like when you have something to run up against fields we bring in like Mike capasta we bring on Barry Jarvis we bring on a representative from the you know one of the sports teams and such such that we aren't you know and then sending out invites and seeing who might be able to do that as opposed to the more formal structure I I right that no I actually think that's fun because actually a lot of people here might want to come to a conversation where we're having that where we're just talking about that but you definitely need other people cuz they need a bridge to other Town organizations and other Town decision making so that it's vetted you know if it has impact beyond the site and that's true with sustainability issues I and it's it's definitely true uh do some help if there's some consistency you know if we have to meet two or three times in schematic design that we're not hearing a totally different perspective I wouldn't think the invitees would be different I think the invitees would be the same I think it'd be easier when you say you want to present on ability on site I know that I'm going to invite probably like Andrea Chason right and then I'm going to invite somebody else and somebody else that that we know has a vested interest in this or is part of the select board advisory already um or to the the standing Bill committee whatever it is um but yeah I hear about your consistency I don't know like I said I yeah I think if if it's comfortable for the committee to just maybe have Lenn and I with Arman just sort of put together the rosters there's some natural folks that you're going to select to be on these advisory groups some of the people you just mentioned for athletics for example um and then there's active abutters that we've met and talked with over the last six months that we could engage as well um just to make sure that we're hearing from the neighbors so as a opposed to I worry about you know putting out a an application and the time that's involved and yeah collecting The rosters and interviewing people and it'll be it'll be February or March before we pull that together and I but I think there's there's some natural people that we would want to reach out to to be on these advisory groups I think yeah I think it little more agility I don't know then what do you think oh I I guess I just have more questions so site sustainability what is that group looking at I think the again the um the lead process does involve these um shetes where we go through each of the credits and explain them talk about them and talk about why they might be right or right or not right for this project in this community so it allows that local lens to come into it I would also want to say that it would be very helpful to have a couple Educators in there because there's an overlap where it's intended that these certifications also talk about internal School procedures so things like waste management or gardening or you know there's things like that teaching the building as a teaching tool is a is a is a topic as well so I think you probably have people at the planning Direction who are aligning it with your sustainability goals as well as internal to the district um so it is as far as like potentially composting and or is it Landscaping as well well if it depends on how we choose to orchestrate that because I was going to say there's a little bit of a question about say the abuts they're going to be interested in site design decisions and Athletics is one part of the site design so I don't know and the and the abuts may also be interested in the geothermal issue so I can see them kind of Crossing so maybe we need to figure out you know the overlap because every Project's different at least for me like I think the Athletics doesn't boil down to just William site like what we do with the William site affects has a domino effect upon Athletics and park use within town right so that's where I think Barry's really important to all right we might not have the use of this one but we've got this feel at the high school that potentially you could throw lights on to take off some of that missing a half a field or whatever else so we're just about to finish up two studies um one of them is a field rotation plan that's looking at all of the um field space in anticipation of this um and then the second one is the turf um artificial turf versus natural grass at the high school and the consultant that we had um has interviewed almost all the people we're talking about so I I know we have to do this um but I do think maybe if we can wait until those studies are done I think those could shed some light on or at least provide some valuable information for this group to use yeah um and we just did an active Recreation conditions assessment I don't know a year and a half ago um so recre Athletics Recreation keeps that there and then site would be the sustainability issues within the building as well as storm water but that would engage parking and tree coverage and right Landscaping as well okay okay that's what I was trying to yeah addressing your heat island and yeah okay yeah canopies okay so the the butters would be participating specifically to the lead criteria development to that's to the they would be engaged in that site working group the lead criteria is part of what that group would be talking about I I kind of think once we just once you say what you need to what you want to present on like when we have our you know smaller meetings then I think we need to talk about who gets invited right like I wouldn't just assume that if it talks about leads that in a butter would get involved they'd be more than people who are in the community who have a background in that M if we're talking about you know what kind of trees are we're going to use here along the the buffer zone I think you know the buts might want to you know know what what kind of trees are going in or what what the Aesthetics are looking like you know from the outside so is it Athletics site and sustainability three groups are we like having site and sustainability together is that a little awkward it seems a little awkward to me yeah we could break it up I mean I I think about it in terms of Consultants too that the the site we have landscape and civil engineers you're going to want to talk about those issues and present their their plans and get input on them and then sustainability is a little bit more mechanical systems um focused for the most part and there's there's overlap of other issues but you know that team of Consultants would be engaged more um and then the Athletics is and we can we can pull a representative group together and get the right Town officials or other town planning groups that are active and we're required to have these groups no no not at all okay cuz I'm thinking I need to check this but if we this body creates those groups groups they fall under open meeting law too so all of those meetings have to be posted well we in past projects we've had there's subcommittees and there are working groups and subcommittees were treated that way working groups were as informal as I think you're you're imagining where they're not necessarily unless five of us show up yeah they don't have any voting power right well in some respects we've already had advisory groups we pulled together police and fire and DPW pull together teach groups of Educators you know I don't know if I'm thinking about that the right way but Lynn I trust Lynn's judgment on this stuff I just would want to look at it if we yeah I just want I would want to look at it those I know what you're saying about the public safety ones cuz I I thought that too when we were talking about this but um right yeah the the other side is what we're trying to be sure we have is a vehicle to get the information we need more readily than waiting until this body meets once a mon month and you know given what you know is always taken up in that so what we can also do is map out January and febru which is when we need a fair amount of input from you all from the the community on some of these factors and just say okay we need a meeting on this this and this and and try and then give you those dates and as you're saying just kind of piig tell us what those those things are and as I think Lynn's talking about like you know if we have you know multiple studies available to answer all those questions for you here's the studies right and and and give you access to marry just to be the expert on what those are Casto like Town employees who are already engaged in that that issues um yeah I think I think I think we can get there with what you're talking about like a schedule telling us what the what you're looking to get out of those and then we need to come up with an approach on how to get you that information or how to get you feedack back M and we have a sustainability manager or something like this in town right there's some IND we have a committee but I don't know we have a committee we just hired a um energy coordinator I can't remember the exact title they have not started yet okay I mean that group that person seems to be the kind of yep group we tie into right yeah as much as tying into the ABS not discounting their views but no and Karine we probably have a big say in this too right yeah so do we think about it less as appointed advisory groups and more as Lyn and I as appointed Town officials just Gathering the right people depending on what your needs are what the design team's needs are I don't know if that if we can think about it that way I think Lynn still wants to get to the bottom of you know whether this becomes over meeting law or not so that's good but then I think in the alternative yeah Dory gives us a schedule and puts out there what information she's looking for per that schedule and then I think that's when we need to as Town officials fill in the blanks on how we get that information how best do we get that information in a timely fashion all right um project design updates next steps meetings we've already dropped into that a little bit so I I'll just give you an update that we as I mentioned we we did a lot of meeting in the schools uh Revisited our space summary went back with the plans that we had in place to talk with the faculty um we also had a series of departmental meetings with District departments it and custodial Etc in order to gather information on what we had presented as the PSR plan coming out of this group um and that as is expected kind of changes things and there we picked up a couple holes in the plans um we came up with some really great design changes that we've been implementing and our next step is that we're having a a district uh educational leadership meeting to review that in a lot more detail in order to get um confirmation that we're heading in the right direction with that plan um we're hoping to wrap all this up by end of December so that we can then have our our full 3d model up and running for all of our teams and we can start into all of these things that are beyond the building footprint that we need to um start redesigning based on these changes um and uh we've been meeting with our consultant teams every other week kind of talking about some of the impacts of design changes and getting them warmed up so we'll start into um uh the uh section planning structural planning mechanical system planning as soon as we we've locked in that plan um as I was saying it was Athletics and that we were going to be looking for more information and site in January both of those are going to really get hot again um and we'll be working more outside um with our team so uh on the mechanical system and sustainability and then presenting this getting the lead process going want to mention um we had connected our design team with the safe roots to schools um agency it's a it's a a function of State Department of Transportation and they have indicated they would be willing to sort of look at our uh our our traffic patterns and the traffic flow and just be another set of eyes um fully trust the the design team to work with our local officials but as part of our due diligence I think it's great that we're we're able to engage safe roots to schools and um they even said by the way they take a look at high school traffic um as a as another side benefit so um so they're going to be out there in the morning it's watching people come into the exit if they can solve the problem yeah well I'm all for it all right anything else next meetings on the books all right U I would entertain a motion to adjourn so moved moved and second moved and second it called for a roll call Carissa yes Josh yes David yes Lynn yes Marty yes Armen yes we are adjourned thank you everybody thank you thank you