##VIDEO ID:LWV6izSDbtQ## welcome to the October 21st 2024 meeting of the long meow select board this is Select board chair vene haavi I will be confirming that all members and persons anticipated on the agenda are present and can hear me Members when I call your name please respond in the affirmative Dan zorco Here Andrew lamb here Mark gold here Josh LaVine here staff when I call your name please respond in the affirmative ly Simmons here Mike barbier here this open meeting of the long met select board is convened in person and Via Zoom webinar as posted on the agenda in Town's website identifying how the public may join there is no chat or Q&A function all the materials for this meeting are available on the agenda posted on Longet ma.gov the public is encouraged to follow along using the posted agenda unless I note otherwise this meeting will feature resident comment for residents attending the meeting in person please raise your hand when we get to the comment section of the meeting and I will call on you to approach the microphone for residents participating in the meeting via Zoom webinar format please use the raise hand icon at the bottom of the screen the meeting moderator will promote you to panelist unmute you and give you permission to speak if you join the webinar by phone dial star9 to raise your hand and star 6 to mute and unmute residents who wish to speak will identify their names and addresses only each individual is afforded 3 minutes for comments please note that this meeting is being recorded and that some attendees are participating by video conference please remember to mute your phones or computer when you are not speaking if anyone in attendance is recording this meeting please announce yourself now okay uh we will now begin with the pledge of allegiance alance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible liberty and justice for all all right we'll now move on to select board announcements early voting for the presidential election uh the election is set for Tuesday November 5th 2024 polls will be open from 700 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. at the Long Meadow community house early voting will take place from October 19th through November 1st for the full early voting schedule and additional information please visit long meow ma.gov elections the fall special town meeting is set for Tuesday November 12th at 700 p.m. at the Long Meadow high school gymnasium please visit Long Meadow ma.gov toown meeting for additional information and resources ahead of the Fall special town meeting long Meadow's fall 2024 Leaf program has been announced long meal residents will have three options for leaf disposal one use the town pay as you throw curbside leaf collection program two hire a private contractor for leaf removal or three purchase a recycling center sticker and transport leaves directly to the Meadows Leaf composting site on West Road curbside collection of the Town pay as you throw Leaf Bags which are available now a Big Y for purchase will be held on three Saturdays between November 2nd and December 20 uh December 14th exact dates to be determined the drop off area in the Meadows off of West Road will open for the season on Saturday October 26th and will remain open to Residents and contractors through Sunday December 8th weather permitting for additional information about the leaf program please visit long meow ma.gov Leaf program the community preservation committee via the town clerk's office will accept project proposals through November 12th for possible consideration and vote at the 2025 annual town meeting for additional information about the C PC process and to fill out an application please visit long meow ma.gov Civic alerts all right so that's all for select board announcements uh now we will move to resident comments if there are folks that want to make a comment see anybody on Zoom no okay okay uh we'll now proceed to interviews um so on the agenda we have the Housing Authority vacancy interview um but we will be rescheduling that and and holding that at a later date so we will move on ahead to the board and committee interviews tonight we have two interviews um the first we have uh step gelling who is interviewing for the Council on Aging board of directors so please come up to the microphone Mr gelling if you could just introduce yourself and uh your address and just let us know why you're seeking reappointment uh stepen ging 76 Long Fellow Drive I'm I was I filled a one-year term firm uh last year so when that expired uh I found the work on the board interesting and thought I would uh reapply to fill a full term great thank you uh any questions from the select board all right that was pretty easy you're tough you're tough ruing yeah thank you for joining us and uh we'll be voting on your appointment at our next meeting okay yeah thank you so much thank you all right and then we have um ear and pers uh seeking reappointment to the recycling commission and I believe they're on Zoom yep and if you hello yes good evening you hear me yes we can hear you uh thank you for joining us if you just Begin by introducing yourself and uh letting us know what your addresses and um about why you are seeking reappointment to the recycling commission okay irn Pur 67 Windsor Place Long Meadow uh I have been on the recycling commission uh at least 20 years now the last 10 plus years as the chairman of the commission uh it's a great great group uh committed uh to a very valuable asset in town and I look forward to continuing with them great thank you any questions from the board Josh hi everyone this is Josh LaVine um I just had a question about uh on our agenda today we have or sorry on the potential warrant that we're looking at for town meeting uh we have a good amount of cash put up for uh new recycling bins I wonder if you had any thoughts on that uh the new recycling bins uh can you be more specific I know the uh the schools are looking for more bins um I don't know if you're looking for more bins uh for household collection um but I I I was meeting with the uh school committee a couple of weeks ago and they did ask for a few more bins so it might be that also okay no I I was asking specifically maybe it hasn't come to the committee at all or you haven't been made aware of it uh if you look at the agenda you'll see our warrant has um some uh putting out money for recycling bins that can be picked up by automated truck and we'll be discussing it later today yeah um natur really with those negotiations I know we've been working with the huler on that that's that's been on the uh on the dock in discussion for a while but uh I don't know the specifics okay well thank you stay tuned I will great uh anyone else yeah Mr P I think that that discussion is basic primarily been a negotiation between Tom man's office and different vendors so I I don't think the recycling commission has been read into that yet so uh yeah you didn't fail the pop quits okay um well thank you so much uh for joining us and we'll be voting on your appointment at our next meeting thank you all right great thank you uh next we have the Board of Health membership update and I believe we've got Finn mol here to speak to this if you like to come up and join us um seems like there was just kind of a little bit of an honest mistake made and if you can just kind of explain that sure um it it seemed uh as though um one of our board members uh their email address had changed those um reappointment letters had been sent to him or go out via email um he didn't get that in time um and didn't make the meeting or the time to apply uh reapply sorry um that coupled with uh usually I would keep track of the board memberships um and let them know if it's about to expired um I didn't get a chance to to notify him in time so those two things um he lost that position on the board he was knocked down to a um associate associate member um I talked to both board members they're both willing to um go back to their original positions okay great and then in the memo attached to the agenda the proposed changes are to reinstate Dr Richard steinard as a full member of the Board of Health and to return Dr Elliot Greenberg to the position of associate member so I think we can I can entertain a motion we I think our bylaws require us to at least interview Dr Steiner he he was he interview a month ago um and he was re he was appointed as a so we had two interviews for so what happened is last year there was a vacancy one was for a fullterm member and one was for an associate member um Elliot Greenberg who was associate member wasn't was in fact appointed as a full-time member and then when this year came around um the only vacancy that was available was the associate member because that expires every year so Richard steinart was appointed as a associate member a month ago at this point so he was interviewed by the board and um was appointed at the following meeting um this memo is designated to reverse their roles um which it seems that they're okay with yeah and and especially since mr's already spoken to both of them and and I think got gotten all the strained out um it was really administrative oversight they just didn't realize that they needed to be reappointed that year and then their term laps yep okay great okay so I I will move to reinstate Dr Richard steinard as a full member of the Board of Health and to return Dr Elliott Greenberg to the position of associate member second any further discussion all those in favor all right great thank you appreciate it okay uh select board comments anybody have a comment they'd like to make we're moving things along tonight it's great uh Town manager report great uh so I think many of you already know uh but by the time my report was published at our last meeting I did not have time to update this update the report but I'm happy to announce that we received a land and water conservation fund grant for Bliss playground this is an 82432 Grant award from the federal land and water conservation fund to add Ada amenities at Bliss Park and to renovate the playground to increase accessibility for all uh users of um all ages and abilities we were one of eight Massachusetts communities to receive this award this the current playground was installed in 20 06 and has reached uh its end of life and we're we've been having trouble over the last few years replacing parts that have failed or been um damaged so this will allow us to um add a new playground and uh fix some drainage issues that occur at the current playground it it does flood when there's heavy rain and then we will also be able to install that rubberized surface that you've seen at the three other Elementary playgrounds which meets ADA requirements uh this is the first in time in 30 years that the town has received this land and water conservation fund Grant U and so a big kudos to Karen MMS for her work on this application uh we will you'll see at the um annual U I'm sorry the special town meeting there's a warrant article related to this uh it was just to clean up some of the language from the annual town meeting article that the granting Authority wanted us to revise um and this is a 50% um match Grant so the town does need to come up with the other 50% uh as some of you may have heard uh EV charging stations did go offline briefly this is related to nlx the company that supplied our equipment they ceased operation in the US and Canada and gave us about a week's notice uh the machines were set to go offline October 11th but uh the day before that happened we learned that they were able to reach an agreement with us the third party to continue to operate the platform but there will be no customer service so we are looking at other options one of which includes putting out an RFP or a lease to swap out the level two chargers for level three so I hope to have more information on that in the next month or so uh and then just to to put this out there in the public so that people are aware and are not caught off guard if and when this ever happens um we did we we' been meeting with d the town um DPW and myself regarding a potential consent order so as most residents know the town does not frequently meet water quality requirements due to high disinfectant byproducts related to water treatment um at Springfield Water and Sewer mostly related to that the Springfield Water and Sewer Commission as we all know is under consent order from the DP to make required plant upgrades uh Springfield Water and Sewer has 4 years to make those upgrades uh DP recently engaged the town in a conversation uh in our role as a Wholesale customer of Springfield Water and Sewer and they put us on notice that if in August of 2028 when the work is complete at Springfield if that does not solve our high disinfectant byproduct problem in Long Meadow the town will receive a consent order and we will be required to design and modify our system to try to bring the water quality into compliance D put us on notice uh now so that if that happens in 2028 we'll have 24 months to come into compliance or try everything possible to be in compliance and uh just some more exciting news um today was the first day the town offices were open in the new location at Greenwood Center we did closed last week Thursday and Friday to allow for the move it went fairly smoothly um the town clerk's office is going to remain at Town Hall until after the election voting for the presidential election still going to take place at the community house early voting has already started there uh and the mail dropbox for property taxes utility bills and vote by mail ballots is not changing uh for the time being uh and we you know we just ask for people to stay patient while we finish the move we still have a lot of punch list items uh and so it's going to be a little bit bumpy for the next few weeks but we are up and operating there at Greenwood Center great thank you anything from the board Mark yeah when I had a couple of questions the first one is I presume the D consent order also went to other communities supplied by Springfield Water and Sewer is that I'm not I I would imagine it did but I'm not able to confirm that right the the other question is I looking through the monthly reports from different departments the one that jumped out at me was the parking wreck where our I guess it's revolving fund but the revenues are are down and the expenses are up I presume you and Barry Jarvis have also seen that Trend and are going to be addressing it at some point that's obviously something not something that can continue long term yep okay thank you Josh uh are there other towns that had have public Chargers that were using the nlx Chargers um not just towns yes but it was all of their commercial um and residential charging right um but I'm asking more for towns I'm just wondering if you're in contact with other towns find out what they're doing maybe we can all work on a solution together yeah I haven't heard of another one in our area but I can definitely research that cuz they're big company there lots of places anything else yeah I mean obviously great news about the Bliss playground Grant uh that's I think something that folks have been really excited about and especially coming on the heels of all the playground at our playgrounds at our elementary schools being changed we had a great um ribbon cutting at Center School in between our last meeting and this meeting as well and um this is just really exciting so yeah great work again on that all right so uh nothing further we can move on uh to the next agenda item we're moving over to Old business uh approval of meeting minutes we're going to skip that and we'll do that at our next meeting and then we get we are then ready to talk about the East Eastern hamen shared Public Health Services intermal agreement and Lynn I don't know if you want to tee that one up sure um so this one uh we have been kind of briefing you along the way on on this um intermunicipal agreement uh as you all know we are a shared Health Services with the towns of hamen mson and wil Bram with Long Meadow being the lead uh with this Department of Public Health public Excellence Grant we were required to uh create a shared services agreement which we did a couple years ago and uh dph was working on developing some best practice recommendations for these shared service agreements um they were working on it as we were already operating and so we spent considerable time developing what we called at the time um a set of bylaws or gu in bylaws for each Community to work on we were really close to being able to bring that to you we our plan had been by the end of the fiscal year in June uh and then right before that happened D I'm sorry dph said no we don't like this version we want you to create a intermunicipal agreement and we have a model that you should work from so that's delayed us to where we are right now um that document was um kind of crosswalked between the work we had already done and and the inter Municipal agreement it has been vetted by the other communities and Town Council and it's coming here to you tonight um for a vote but we're happy to discuss it with you I did provide it I want to say two meetings ago because it's fairly lengthy um Finn's here tonight too to talk about uh what it kind of means operationally and um answer any questions that you might have well um let's um do you want to kind of talk maybe about operationally how this will how this will work and then we can go into questions yeah absolutely and uh kind of how Lynn had mentioned we've been operating for we actually just came on three years um so right now we're four member staff there's the director myself uh an inspector a coordinator and public health nurse um and essentially we provide the health services to these other three communities as well well everything your health department does were're able to provide that to those those communities um previously before yeah before the um shared services a couple of those towns just had a part-time Health agent um now that we all joined this uh collaborative um we've been able to really bolster the um the health Departments of these communities uh including long Meadows um that being said we we all kind of share our time between the four communities um that kind of changes on a weekly basis daily basis um seasonally um but we've been able to hit all of our marks and exceed those and we've got excellent feedback from the other communities and uh the residents um themselves great thank you uh Mark did you have a question I had I a couple Finn thank you for going through this I guess my my first question is is if this is wildly successful like we hope is there a process for a limit to the number of towns that this could Encompass um so right now it would be limited based on the Staffing level so it's a careful analysis between um a community that the dist the not District but I always default to call in a district uh what they could take on so it would be an analysis that Finn would do and Heather um and then a conversation with the other communities because anytime you take on one it has an impact both financially and um uh capacity wise I think the IMA spells out how we add a community um one of the newer changes to this IMA is an Advisory Board which kind of oversees all of the communities they don't have um any sort of uh like budgetary or legislative power necessarily it's more just uh recommendations and guidance um so to answer your question yes you we can add communities I don't believe there's a number that we're capped at um but it is a careful analysis similar to Westcom thanks Finn I presume that you interact with the boards of health of all these communities so you're yeah you're about four nights a week probably I can get busy yeah um and actually this uh IMA has been signed off I've presented it to each of the boards of Health in each Community including long Meadows last Monday along with the S Boards of the other three communities um and they've all signed off and and the boards help approved and the select boards have signed off on on this um so this is I guess my final stop to present this to you all and um my last question is do do the do the other members towns have health department employees or somebody responsible for anything within that town yeah they have um like an administrative person um it kind of varies town to town that they pay for through their original budget they've been there before how how does the reporting of that person work I mean they're paid for paid by somebody yeah but yet they report through I assume you yeah it's um it's a little different in each Town um um they they they are employees of their respective towns um they report to in in actually all in two of the cases directly to um the Town Administrator um and one of the towns it's just like a branch of one of the other depart the uh engineering DPW Department um they only service a small portion of what the health department needs there um which is just um retrieving files for uh septic systems um but I work with and yeah with them um but I do in a sense supervise them I direct them um on how things can be or should be done um in that position thank you great thank you anything else all right who needs to sign this is it you signing it or intermunicipal Agreements are select board like forth okay um so I will entertain a motion on this I'll move that we approve the intermunicipal agreement for the Eastern hen County shared Medical Services second any further discussion all right all those in favor all right great thank you Ben appreciate it thank you okay now we can move forward with our discussion on the fall special town meeting draft warrant and I I think we've got our moderator here Rea Townson IEM thank you for joining us moderator and before we kind of get into the warrant and discuss all the Articles um I don't know if you wanted to share a few thoughts comments before uh you know you'll lead up to the meeting thank you um so as you know town meeting is something that you're familiar with there may be some newer residents who are less familiar so I wanted to urge them as as they uh think about voting on November 5th they also have another Civic obligation and right in our town and that is to exercise the power of Municipal legislature they have that right and obligation on November 12th town meeting where regular citizens can come and deliberate and decide on key items like zoning or transferring from operation stabilization funds and participants who are uh long meow voters can come to town meeting can participate can vote their children if they have them are welcome to come too uh children who are um seated with their parents not a problem if you have uh any visitors who are not uh children they would be seated in a visitor section and we look forward to having people participate if people do have questions about how to participate they can contact me Rebeca Townsen at R Townsend long net.org and I wanted to say that in a review of the warrant I noticed um kind of a general overview we have let's see one two three four five six seven articles that require a 23s majority vote uh one citizen petition and uh I you know I think we'll discuss those as we come to come to them but I I did want to note that those still do exist on the warrant there were two items articles 21 and 29 that seem to lack some key information and I imagine you'll you'll come up with that uh we will be obviously voting with our electronic voting again and do appreciate Mike barbier's assistance in uh that that as well and I'm happy to take questions from you uh and answer them as best I can great thank you uh any questions for the moderator no all right all right yeah well thank you yeah appreciate it so if um if I may on on these specific articles I did want to draw attention to uh the citizen petition I have spoken with Town Council about as I do for preparation of every town meeting I talked to the count Town Council about the draft warrant and and I confirmed with him that article 6 the citizen petition is something that would act as a resolution so I've spoken to the citizen petitioner about this and he's made made aware the wording of the language in The Proposal is not actionable so it does act as a resolution so I wanted to clarify that for the board and if there's any other questions when we're when you're dealing with the warrant I'm happy to come back great thank you I I have more questions on that article but if if you're going to stay here we can wait until we get there I don't mind staying here or either way oh no I just mean in the room oh yeah no I I'll stay in the room all right yeah uh then then we'll once we get to it we can discuss that further because I think yeah there's probably a few questions about that one um great uh so then what we can do is kind of Dive Right In and we will go article by article I'll give folks just you know a few minutes to look over it again and then we can discuss the article and then vote to adopt it once we're finished um finished editing in okay so um article one U this is one that deals with the msba and um the the the Center School roof I don't know if folks have any edits that they seen on that or anything they want to discuss I think the the key issue is up to I mean and and I think it's going to be interesting and I don't know if this is on Mike or Lynn but moving this from a worn article to a motion you know normally we just take off to you know to see if the town will and I moved that the town borrow transfer from available funds but I guess we're going to do an amount up not to exceed is that how we're going to do this yes is the the second going to for Mar Mark said is the second sentence it seems like it it's explanatory not part of the article the explaining that's not non entitlement discretionary program that is required by Ms okay they have vetted this three times okay fair enough I'm make a motion we adopt article one second any further discussion go just quick so um so if we do not so if this passes but we don't get the funding from the state this year next year I mean is it until 10 years we get it or you know that we're eligible for these funds if for the reimbursement the application that we submitted if it's not approved we would need to re apply again it doesn't it doesn't continue over and we would not do a feasibility study at that point okay and if we do get into the feasibility study we have to this has already been spent essentially because we have 90 days to do the study uh we would then yeah we would engage a engineer to do the study for us and we have the funding available to do that anything else all right all those in favor great okay article two I just have a a comment because I think I was the initiator of some of this saying let's take another look at the operating budget in the fall and and I have to say that my my intent wasn't to use the state money to increase the operating budget but rather to use the state money to lower the taxpayers obligation through raising taxes although I I recognized that some of what we did was we didn't have enough money when we did the budget and we were going to look at you know when we had more money how we could spend it you know I I have to say that that that you know I'm sure the schools would have loved to have another $125,000 but they didn't ask for it and you know normally if this you know in a normal year they would have gotten that money money because it's it's part of it's part of state allocations to the schools and there would have been that much less money or their budget still would have been what what was passed at the town meeting the the budget would not have been increase so I'm I'm concerned about that that portion of this article because it actually increases our spending by that amount I know that we said that some of the other things we're going to do particular Opel liability uh was something that we wanted to take a look at when we had additional State funding yeah it U oh I I I'm an advocate for spending for our schools uh absolutely but we I think I I agree with you a bit Mark here because they if we put the money in there now that will be there next year and then it just a ever bigger portion of our budget when we don't have a lot to give and and this year we already were on the hook for or almost spent half a million dollar on a reading program that could have been part of the budget and so while I never if the school needs something I want us to generally find a way to do it but we don't know where the money's going right now so that that is a bit of a concern for me and the fact that we pulled money out of OPB to fund the the literary program I think makes me uh question whether we should put it as a blank check to the schools um so I think you're I generally agree with you here Mark and the DPW facilities that will mostly go towards the school buildings right not necessarily not necessarily the facilities budget covers School Town buildings and the Personnel that take care of it okay uh what did we pull out back from oped last year at the fall at the uh annual town meeting uh 250 oh was just 250 250 I think it was yeah and the other balance was article three was for um Capital but because receipts are coming in higher than we had projected we're able to absorb the capital increases through through uh anticipated receipts yeah I I'm not I'm never against giving the schools money I just if we knew where exactly it was going it would make me uh a little less hesitant to do it V I don't know if you want us to Wordsmith this on the Fly here yeah no I think I we need to yeah you know like I said I I thought we were you know we we shorted had choice of words but the only word I can think of we we underfunded maybe is a better way to put our OPB liability I think that's one thing we want to go back and take a look at if if Lynn and you know Sean and some are saying the DPW needs additional money you know I guess I'd like to know what line items it's going to within the DPW because that's an awfully big budget to just say we're putting in $125,000 I don't know that that needs to be in the warant article but I think that as overseers of the of the overall Town budget I think it'd be nice for us to know where that you know is it going into the Fourth Street budget or the roads it says it in here it says facilities that line item that says it's going into the division MH right and then is it possible for us to get an idea from the school department as well about what that 125 will go towards I we can ask them yes it would not be in the warrant article because their budget isn't approved by lines but did they request an additional 125,000 it was a conversation that we had once we got the new state aid number once once the state budget passed and it was a Chapter 70 increase that attributed to this um increase in state aid it was a conversation with the school department because this these both get built into the ba unlike OPB which we Flex back and forth schools in the DPW get built into our base budget and once we spend more on it we're committing as Josh indic we're committing that amount of money forever I mean that becomes part of the base budget I mean I'd modify this to you know include I'd like to include the opep liability only I I think that there ought to be another way to find out a way to adjust the DPW facilities budget and if this is the way to would I'd include that as well but I you know like I said the schools didn't request the $125,000 larger budget and I'd rather see that money kept in the pockets of the taxpayers so it's within your purview now I mean you set the warrant you're welcome to make adjustments to it all we do is present you fine I'll make a motion that we adjust we change the 475 768 to 350768 and delete the uh portion that says for the purpose of of and delete the operating budgets delete the port that says for the schools $125,000 so it'll say for the purpose of increasing the FY 25 budget operating budget for the DPW facilities 125 and debt services and towns School employee retiree benefits opep liabilities 225 768 sorry so you'll that that Revenue that increase in state aid is coming in that's the total 475 and and and 768 so you just don't want to allocate the 125 anywhere correct so it'll you'll just want to leave it for right now it'll be it'll be General Revenue right so it'll be a lower tax rate I mean the money's coming in so it'll be lower Revenue okay I'll second it is there anything that you can maybe share about this conversation with the school department about 25 yeah I mean it dates all the way back to February of last year when uh we were in budget conversations the budget they presented was higher than what we had funding for so I went back to them and asked that they reduce it they did do that and at the same time they also presented the literacy curriculum um um need and um we had several conversations but then we also had a joint meeting here uh where we talked about their budget as well and at the time a lot of the state budget stuff was unknown um and just through our normal conversations and our collaborative relationship that we have when one does well we usually try to share it and when the other doesn't do well we also try to share that as well so if Chapter 70 is doing well it it's shared if Chapter 70 is not doing well the town helps um bolster that so it's it's just been a give and take that's the same thing that's happened every single budget year uh this year we actually did better than we normally do when the state revises its or finally adopts a budget um yeah I mean it's there there's nothing really more than that other than we just keep in constant communication on where our budgets land and what the needs are and they did reduce it from um what their original ask had been to meet our budget requirements in March Josh and I'm glad you you put it like that I guess I just haven't been on the board when this situation came up um and I I think that that is uh a fair way to put it um so I I think I'm I'm going to vote against the amendment um and uh we can see what the town thinks uh that's what town meeting is for so um thank you for putting it that way uh let's let our Rising tide lift all boats a bit yeah and that's why I asked was because if I didn't want us to damage uh or go against any expectations uh in different departments through this vote and um so yeah so so thank you for providing that context if if it wasn't allocated to schools would it just go into free cash basically the money that's coming in um well yeah it's a revenue so and you're saying that like this has been you've had conversations with the school committee I mean I'm sorry the school Finance team about this and this is kind of just what you you guys kind of agreed would be a good give and take yeah the the conversation was that we would fulfill the obligations that were made to to make to make the purchase of the literacy curriculum so that was um we cut OPB and we cut Capital so initially the conversation was we had this extra 475,000 in state aid coming in we were going to split whatever was left after we made those obligations and so that's the 125 and 125 because the capitals being able to be made whole through anticipated higher revenues than we than we originally projected did for 25 thank you I guess I first of all I I I just want to clarify something hre said our town budget is based on expenses there's General Revenue there's a few lines of special Revenue but this additional 475,000 is in General Revenue it so it doesn't go into free cash it goes into the pool that we use to fund our our expenses so I just want to make sure that it's part of the General Revenue we anticipated whatever our state aid was 4 point something million million and and and it and it's up more than we thought you know so the the budget was based on unanticipated which is every year clearly uh conservative but to make sure we're at least at that level we put together a budget when Revenue in the past has come in above that it always is revenue that's was never allocated for expenditures and so therefore it was never spent really and and that's why I'm saying the the budgets were prepared the budgets were developed budgets were agreed to and you know I wasn't aware that there was an agreement that if we get more money we'll split it because when we discussed it I was the one who brought up well let's look at it again in the fall when we see what the real amount of money is that we get from the state because we know we never get what we said so I'm I'm concerned that we're making up making agreements here that that aren't there and we're certainly committing the town to an extra $250,000 forever which is a pretty substantial increase can I just clarify two things uh one I think we are saying the same thing we are in different fiscal years so yes this Revenue that this increase in Revenue right now is not hitting free cash now if it's not allocated and not um spent it will hit free cash for 26 not now right right um the other thing is it it's not an agreement it's a conversation between the superintendent and the town manager on how we oversee budget funds for both the school who was our largest you know budget expense and on the town side and so Chapter 70 which is um uh school state aid it's that's our either a big winner or a big loser and it depends on what's going on in in Boston at the time this year it happened to be higher they gave um per pupil increases that Rose our number up another $475,000 so there's some schools of thought that say that should go to the schools there's some schools of thought that say it's just General Revenue comes into the town it doesn't matter those different buckets Long Meadow has a history of not holding the schools to what that chap 70 number is we have put a lot of um value into education here and so if Chapter 70 is not meeting uh the number that we need in order to provide that education then we're going higher than that uh and the same goes with if it's um if Chapter 70 has increased like it did this year that's not money that's going all to the school it's a sharing of it so it's just it's a conversation between the town manager and the superintendent it is not a formal agreement we do not have authority to do that that that rests with you and town meeting right and and just $475,000 give or take for 5,000 residents is about $80 a household never take I mean I right $8 $82 something like that times 5,000 so that's the that's the potential tax savings on so I think in order to do what you're saying it we need a budget reduction no no we don't because it'll come back because in the fall when we're going to look at setting our our our tax rate right and our tax rate will be here's how much money we need to raise divided by the property we will need to raise $475,000 less so the tax be in in order to balance the budget for the current year if yeah if we do nothing with these if if we didn't spend money at all right we need to spend raise $475,000 less if we don't spend you know some of it then we it's that much less we need to raise and so I think that if we don't allocate all the additional revenue from the state it does reflect on the tax rate because we'll need to raise less money anything else um I I'm also going to vote against this amendment I think because of the understanding that we've had with the school department where we have shared and what Lynn basically described I'm not willing to walk away from that right now so hastily without some deeper conversation around it we can just as easily cut the DPW facilities but we we know they need it we know the schools to find a way to use it wisely I think so yeah and I think when the school department came and presented their budget to us there were a whole lot of items that they weren't able to fund that I'm sure that with this you at least some of those they will be able to fund that I think all the St were important okay anything else all right so uh to Mark's motion um all those in favor all those opposed all right um so let's take another shot at article two entertain another motion I'm move we adopt article two second okay any further discussion all right all those in favor all those opposed all right let's move on to article three give folks a second to take a look at it any comments or Josh do you have something oh no this is uh we're picking up things that we left behind in in spring right yeah firetruck fund security camera upgrades um tour schools I'll move we adopt article three second any discussion on this one all those in favor all right great um article four um this is an operating stabilization fund uh transfer uh concerning the weather event on August 15th and the and the storm cleanup work related to it I'll make a motion we adopt article four second any further discussion all right all those in favor great uh and then Article 5 moving right along this one speaks to the um organic growth cleanup over at Wolf Swamp Center and Community House regarding the mold issue yeah go ahead Mark I'm not I still don't understand why this is a stabilization fund Sy project as opposed to a free cash pro project I I I don't consider this uh I mean it you know we're saying for emergency remediation but it wasn't you know an act of God it was a maintenance issue to some degree you know and I think I I'm just trying to protect the I'm I'm not opposed to funding it we did it we need to fund it I just don't support the method of funding this from the stabilization fund I think it should we should fund it from another source if it fails to get two3 would it come from free cash it wouldn't go anywhere at all it wouldn't be paid uh it's coming out of the DPW budget to some extent uh which will deplete them to not be able to do any other facility work for the rest of the fiscal year then is there another potential source for these and 2third is a is a is a hurdle we may not want to push for this yeah so again the draft warrant is what we as a town employee team put together and present to you guys based on our suggestions you guys can decide what you want to do or not do or how you want to fund something uh on that memo uh for free cash uses and stabilization fund there's a chart at the the last page I I know you guys received it I know that the agenda copy from yesterday didn't include it but it's been fixed since then um you you can decide I mean you can move things around depending on what you like or um you could if you wanted to we're not suggesting you do this but you could um use the balance of the free cash to support this article and not take anything else off of um the free cash list right now it would put us down to a number that doesn't leave us very comfortable for the rest of this fiscal year uh depending on the type of winter we have it it puts us in a precarious position but you know you guys can do that you you have the full uh range of options here tonight with what you'd like to do and how you want to fund things but Lynn we don't have access to free cash after town meeting annual town meeting you would and you would def so snow and ice we would deficit spend and then we would make whole and the actual policy regarding the oper operational operating stabilization fund it speaks to emergency uses it doesn't actually use the term Act of God does it I off the top of my head either it does say emergency yeah emerc and and I think that my understanding of emergency is probably a little bit different than maybe how um you see it Mark you know I don't think it needs to necessarily be an act of God I think the situation that this you know what happened here where there was mold and school was about to open and this needed to be done immediately that is emergency to me and so for me this does fit into how we would use the operating stabilization fund I also but the risk is that we don't get a two-thirds majority yeah sure yeah Josh you uh yeah I I agree with that reading of emergency uh I just we had a question I think our last meeting about uh if there is an issue taking out of our operation stabilization fund that uh if that creates an issue when going out in bonding does that hurt our credit I was hoping you could speak to that e sure so I had a conversation with Brienne susil who was our financial advisor with UniBank last week and I specifically asked her given these two articles what the impact would be so with the use of stabilization funds being 351,000 we currently have as of uh 101 a stabilization balance of 8 m767 n0 so that would remain 8,415 370 if both articles were adopted as such now the policy states that the town will strive to maintain a balance of at least 5 to 10% of the general fund operating revenues currently without these articles in place would be at 11.09% and with the Articles we'd be at 10.64% improper use of the funds I think it's unlikely that it would not pass but it's always a chance but I think it's unlikely it's I guess a a question I have is maybe Sean can explain how this happened what what led to the mold so there were just so it's clear there's three different locations there were mold in July and August so I think the biggest one you're probably wondering is w swamp cuz that was the most pervasive well just is this was it too humid was there temperature control fell off so the background is there's been multiple mold issues throughout this entire County and the one west of here so it happened primarily because of temperature and the amount of humidity in the air um there were some vents and some other basic maintenance that wasn't um followed at wol swamp that exacerbated the already existing mold that probably would have existed in some manner but we there was preventive maintenance that was missed there was I think of it was a vent that was turned off or something that should have been turned on um we also have the issue of the chiller there and the um lack of insulation which took a problem that was already bad and made it much worse so the reason I asked is not I don't think those things make it not an emergency even if there was things we could have done to prevent it but as our Earth gets warmer and wetter we got to really stay on it to prevent it because if it happens every year then it's not an emergency then it's we screwed up I don't want that to happen sure I don't know if I answered or not combination why I was setting you up okay thanks um one thing I I thought of as you guys were talking here is um what we historically have done too is if there is a balance in free cash uh at annual town meeting I think you have a policy on this too that the money gets moved the free cash gets moved into stabilization operating stabilization so if you wanted to make that commitment here we could say the balance of free cash Ann for after we make it through the winter as we prepare the annual town meeting warrant will go to replenish the operating stabilization fund for the money that was taken out to deal with the mold issues it's an idea I mean just to we're literally taking it out now hoping to repay it in um May the free cash is growing with interest as well now right I just don't know how much we need to we are robust our budget will keep going up so 10% will still will keep Rising but hopefully interest will keep up with that a bit too I mean just as a comment just I know that Erica provides the quarterly reports on investments just in the in in the month of October so from July to October we've made $286,000 in interest on all of our uh invested assets so we're continuing to we're continuing to Bear the fruits of good rates but that very well can change so it's something to keep in mind good thank you all right anything else on Article Five Mark yeah I I I like Lyn's suggestion to add with the intent to repay the operating stabilization from from Rec from free cash at our annual I think it's important that we do that yeah I'm not opposed to that would this would we then change the article language we would change the explanation okay um and I I don't know if you want to work on exactly what that would say just so that we don't know what the next few months are going to bring and so I would hate to tie you in to you know making that commitment but Lynn just what I said with the intent to repay the operating stabilization fund from free cash at the annual town meeting it doesn't mean we a commitment it says with an intent to right that if everyone else is good with that I I I guess I don't feel strongly about repaying it but we can see how things look and with the I'm okay with the the intent because ideally yes yeah yeah I feel the same way do you a different motion as amended sure Lynn with the words to strive be better to strive to repay instead of intent how about Aspire now we can't strive there's nothing we can really it just happens or it doesn't I think I like it though no I I uh I'll move that we accept Article Five uh as amended second any further discussion right all those in favor great all right so article six is the citizen petition I think uh you know Josh mentioned that we kind of need a discussion on this one so let's just start here M Madam moderator You' like to [Music] approach um so I I had a question about the logistics of this article because it will um the proponents do not want it to pass so I'm curious to how that will work presentation wise and does the is there uh can there be a presentation for and what what would the order be in so out of uh our tradition we allow the lead petitioner on an article and the lead petitioner is defined as the person who has submitted the petition to the clerk for filing and sign their name at the top and I have offered to the lead petitioner what we do for every town meeting where there is a a citizen petition in that that person gets the kind know first rights at making a motion on the article they can make whatever motion they would like to make but we offer them the chance to make an motion um they they have a wide range of motions they can make so I I don't you know I offer to um be a resource in answering questions about what is possible um so we typically defer to that citizen petitioner to make the first motion as I mentioned uh I spoke with uh the Town Council regarding this article because was the language um the particular construction of the words the the way that it's written um an a if there were to be an affirmative main motion I move to approve and then the rest of the article if there were to be an affirmative main motion uh it would be a resolution that town meeting voters affirm that language if it were a negative main motion this the the same would go it it is unclear what the resolution would be based on the language it is therefore unactionable there there is there is no change to expenditures that can happen there's no change to contracts that can happen it is a sense of the town and the sense of the Town shall emerge from the set of speakers that we hear that evening whatever they intend for a message to be on this sorry I'm sorry for my ambig here there's there's so I and I understand you can't control the motion uh but the emotion could be to see if the town will not vote to authorize because it's people are already confused about whether it is what it is Josh I know but the motion is the motion has to follow the article he's asking does he ever does the motion ever in the negative sense so like reject Artic we we have had motions to take no actions on article whatever and those that's a non-action right it it's a decision to take no action I think Josh is getting the getting observing that you know if the petitioner is the person who has the right to make the motion it seems a little strange that they would make the motion to approve which is what we would normally say but it doesn't sound like they're able to say I make a motion that we do not approve an article that would be unusual if if that happened uh there's still no action that can be taken from that sure but as a symbolic vote I think that would really throw things into disarray because I will tell you from personal experience I know that I'm telling people people ask me how do I get this to happen right being X and I say you want to vote Yes if that has changed going to the meeting because there's a negative motion we have a real issue and so and I don't a general service that I provide to all Town voters is confidential calls if someone wants to ask me a question about how something works and they'd rather not tell other people I I will honor their confidentiality and discuss that if somebody wants to do it in a public meeting I'll discuss how to get things done um I don't advise on strategy uh and I don't I don't vote so there's no stake in there mark thanks I I mean I'm not taking a side on this either way but the article says to see if the town will so I would assume somebody has to stand up and say I move the town vote to authorize the continued expenditure on and on because if they if they say the opposite that's like us coming up and say I vote that the town not approve the sum the following one that the town not not approv the sum of 5,190 and and you wouldn't allow that because it's a substantial change from the motion the the motion is what we're doing with but but the article but don't the motions have to substantially represent the article the if the motion is is a negative main motion that's permissible a motion could be a motion to commit or refer to committee so there's a lot of different motions that sounds like it's certainly possible that a negative motion could be made I think to I've seen you do this many many times you do an excellent job of literally just explaining hey so this is what a yes vote will mean this is what a no vote will mean sounds like it's not something that we can necessarily avoid and if it happens then you'll basically make it very clear to the voters who are present may not be ideal but I think you'd have to do that's it doesn't sound like you can have you can prevent it I think you are obviously the expert on moderating but I think I I think that I agree with Mark that uh if if you're not following the article then we have Miss the purpose of the article we have to publish it to get information out to people if that is misleading then I think and it doesn't match the motion I think we have a problem there but I think Madame moderator is saying that she may not have I mean if if you believe that it is agree with Mark or perhaps Josh is suggesting that it is not proper to not uh make a motion that is substantially what the article is saying that's one thing but if you believe that it's permissible to do either yes or no motion then you have to do what you have to do well let let's say that it was something actionable and we had an article $10 million to uh knocked down the high school and put him in McDonald's and the the person who the proponent didn't want that so the motion was to not spend $10 million but it failed we're you can see how we it would get to we the Attorney General's office I think we' have a field day I mean look prefer not to engage in hypotheticals at this point um I heard you say that but Rebecca look at look at the the questions on the on the Statewide ballot you know they are very specifically yeses or NOS you know and if everybody said and this and in fact the red booklet everybody gets says go to the back and write down whether you're voting yes or no yes or no so you can walk in and vote Yes No but if if all of a sudden the the vote the the motion was the opposite you know somehow that just goes in the face of what's what's proper I don't think we could allow an opposite vote section 30 of town meeting time addresses negative main motions so if there is a negative main motion I mean that that is something that town meetings have have dealt with before um based on a positive or negative warrant article though if the if the warrant article is negative and the motion is negative then it's they're they're in sync but if if one's one way and one's the other way and we got bigger problems I my opinion as I said there could be a range of motions and there could be motions to amend there could be motions to commit or refer and those subsidiary motions would take precedence over the the main motion so there's a range of things that could happen uh and it's not my job to say what is um what I think anybody should do here I want educate about what what the processes are that are available to voters a follow-up question yeah is it a tradition or requirement that the petitioner has given the opportunity to make the first motion it is a tradition that I will that I have informed the the citizen petitioner that he would have that right one important thing that Josh brought up at the very beginning if there is a presentation that's an opportunity for a petitioner to give a presentation I do think it would be wise just for the sake of information for the town and fairness that perhaps someone from the school building committee gives a counter presentation of the exact same length as has been done in the past if I mean typically we have uh bo board or committee uh recommendations that are taken about certain articles so if a board or committee has taken a position on a particular article they can speak they offer their recommendations so typically we'll offer the main motion whatever that is if it's a financial article the finance committee gives their recommendation uh if it's uh related to the planning board planning board gives their recommendation if it's related to the school committee Etc so a relevant board or committee always has that right to offer a position so in this case that would be the the school building committee for example but my question is it pre-planned that I mean in the past there's been formal you know formal like 10 minutes or whatever it is is it going to be is a petitionary going to be told that they can do that and then the school building committee is going to also be told that I have offered to the citizen petitioner that they can have about 5 minutes to make a presentation if they want it follows all of the rules for present for excuse me for audiovisual support in of a of a presentation a speech can be about five minutes if you're using visual aids to support that like a PowerPoint that has to be in by a certain date uh similarly recommendations from boards have approximately the same time approximately because we don't want to get into habit of you know tit fortat here you know everybody gets five 10 minutes right um I just think that it would is important that if that's going to happen from the petitioner side then the like the chair of the school building committee should also be told that they should have the opportunity and prepare if they wish to and I speak with the select board first before speaking to other boards and committees out of deference to you as a a coequal branch here and you know yes I you know I I do communicate with other boards as a matter of course once I've gone through this process so I I usually speak with the finance committee I usually speak with the planning board Etc so any relevant board I contact great thank you anything else just call the meeting my mind's wild all right so again if people have specific questions about understanding processes I'm more than willing to talk with them oneon-one or in a a group setting so uh feel free to reach out thank you very much appreciate it yeah thank you yep and so we don't need to adopt this we discussed at article six right and so we're we can move on to article seven um okay and so this I think we can kind of have this bigger conversation about Paving bonding and there were a few other documents attached to our agenda relating to this I think at the last meeting when we discussed this the selectboard had some questions and follow-up items and I think Lynn and Ian and Shan worked on those and um I don't know if you know one of you all want to kind of speak to some of these like the memo and other attached documents for sure I can at least ceue it up and then I will have um blle Ian and then Sean jump in uh so um our goal had been to get this to you much sooner obviously but um with our move last week things got significantly delayed um on the agenda preparation end so um the memo was uploaded late today uh and sent out to you at the same time this is to really uh give you a menu of options um based on our meeting uh early October uh as you'll see first off um the DPW has revised the total amount of um funding needed for those nine roads that we talked about the last meeting uh it's now at 5195 million so they were able to take uh about three 3 million off of there uh but that is a smaller scope uh a lesser um Paving product uh depth that you'll you'll see shanin go into much more detail on that for you um and then a lot of the questions surrounded um how we could pay a bond premium what where the buckets of funding we had available to do that so I did keep that 8.1 million in here just to show you in this memo um it's possible we still want to borrow that amount because later on there's more projects this nine is only representative of the ones that are ready to go now but there are some others you know further down in the queue that could be brought up to do ready to go um but so I did want to see that I didn't want to Discount that option but um the what you see in the warrant article uh is the 5195 because that's what we know we have in front of us right now uh and so Ian has done a lot of the work on what that looks like in terms of bond premium and then later on in the memo we give you uh an idea of what we've been spending Capital um Improvement program wise for Road resurfacing are you able to put that memo up yes um and so uh just to remind you we we do Road resurfacing with capital funds and also chapter 90 funds chapter 90 funds are not eligible to be used to pay Bond premiums did we know that we did not know that the last meeting uh we confirmed it through um several different uh layers um we had to keep going um getting an answer so we were able to confirm that we cannot use those funds for Bond premiums so um you also had asked some questions about um what our just general debt was and so Ian has summarized that here in the memo um and and I'll I'll leave it there and we can have Ian and Sean join if you have specific more in-depth questions on this great um yeah so so thank you all for for doing this and this is a significant reduction uh in the overall project cost I think this is kind of more in line with what we're looking for and from our discussion at our last meeting just a couple of things so I see over by Shaker Road and belir drive um kind of doing the overlay only like we talked about because especially with Shaker Road anticipating that there might be a water main replacement in the future and then we would redo the roads at that point um can you um speak a little bit to why we also decided to do that with B drive so every single Road has a touch of a different base and how it's um held together um it was a feeling that belir we possibly could get away with a less uh depth milling and a smaller overlay based upon the existing condition of it it was borderline typically when we approach a project knowing full well it might be 25 or 30 years it's automatically do the full Mill and the full reconstruction in the case of that road we thought maybe we could get away with it um and it was again something to to look at in terms of options for you guys so that was why we reduced that one as well and we we met with I met with the engineering with our engineering um staff and said what can we do to try to lower the cost of this a little bit so that's what we came up with you'll see it's 1 in it's not going to last 20 years it's it's just smaller much smaller and there's no drainage improvements I want to know in addition so Shaker um the reduction is we're doing no storm water improvements this is just getting the road passable until there's another project that comes through that would have to address that as as well as the water and sewer okay great and then I think at the last meeting Dan had identified pwns Side Road as one and I see that there you all did reduce that um but it's it looks like there's still work that needs to be done more so than what you're proposing for b a drive yeah so again it's every single Road's got a slightly different sort of base and we have to approach them each individually um so that was why that was just a little bit different okay great thanks Mark yeah my house is just about equidistant between belir and canterberry and I got to tell you belir is far worse than canterberry canterberry there was a some effort on resurfacing it this past year and that worked phenomenally it's a newer Road it's got more sunlight than belir I mean I would I don't understand why somebody saying we're just going to skim coat belir it's a disaster so whereas whereas canterberry Lane can be skim coated in my opinion because of the nature of of the road and and I'm just looking at these and saying you know you know the other thing for me is belir is the cut through canterberry isn't Cars cut through belir it's much more heavily traveled I would Suspect with cars going down than Glen Brook uh uh that that just surprised me the other thing is ponside Road you know the only people down there are people going in the town dump you know I I'm I'm just shocked that we're going to spend that kind of money on p on pwns side road to to to dance comment you know I I think we you know I'm I know we're going to spend a lot of money on Shaker but it's a pretty long stretch and it needs to be done badly those are my comments I think I think canterburry is far better than than belir belir is a disaster and and I wouldn't spend five bucks on ponside road person damn I I agree with with much of what Mark is saying um so on pondside road uh the numbers really didn't you know from the first draft certainly decreased significantly but um you know I was driving around just today and by the way B air is pretty bad cuz I I drove on that road today but um if we if we were to look at just other roads such as like Frank Smith other major roads Williams and Bliss like around um Big Y sure and the shops I mean do we have future plans for those roads and that's why they're not here correct and so if you could just touch on that because just help people understand so a lot of those roads have significant need uh for major drainage upgrades as well as full reconstruction we're looking at a variety of Grants to assist with those products because they're going to be in the tens of millions of dollars they're not going to be as small as this if we do them completely the way they need to be so there's a lot going on to get those words those those roads up to speed it's one of the reasons why you want to have a robust plans you're not working against yourself um so yes there are plans to do those projects in the out years um they're just this is this is these are the projects we felt we could get away with right now without working against ourselves whether it be for the drainage improvements or for other grants we might be able to get in that area so for pond side though I mean is there a way that we could still reduce some of the the dollars there and put them towards some of the other roads to March point because not exactly so because of the fact that exists in the F flood plane we can't just cover it up with asphalt we have to Mill out the exact amount we put back in and if we don't do that road which you guys can choose not to we still have to put significant amount of funds into patching it to keep it passable because people are damaging their cars and extra salt in order to keep the road passable in the winter time which then does damage the ecosystem and there is a cost associate associated with it not only in salt usage but also wear and tear in our trucks so yeah we can we could skip it it's not a major road you could you could totally do that if you wanted to reduce it it just but it does have to be addressed at some point in the future I mean you guys are the experts so I'm just I'm just looking at from you know it's to Mark's point you know you go down there and you you see um bird watchers and people running and walking and I just I'm looking at some of the other roads just driving on in town but you know I'll just finish by saying that this is you know this is something that I said last meeting and you know for past two years we need to do something with our roads you know everywhere you go people are residents are complaining they're complaining to me other board members um so I think we need to you know take this opportunity to to do something bigger than we've done in the past and you know keep an eye on the roads and uh make improvements where we can so thanks for putting all this together I agree thanks for uh trying to basically see what you think the best use of our next dollar and where that should go I had questions last meeting about what would happen with the debt service and and where this would play into the projected um debt we're going to take on for like the middle school for fiber for example and I actually appreciate Ian talking with me before this meeting in the couple hours between when we got the reports and now and I do feel like we can support this I think I appreciate that you um or I would support this uh that you reduced the amount I guess but also uh essentially we do appear to be in the range of our select board policies with the two policies just to reiterate there's a policy that The Debt Service should not exceed 12% of the operating expenditures and if our total operating budget is about 76 million 12% is at 9 million and this we're at like 8 and a. half million so that is in compliance there's another select board policy that debt service for excludable debt will not exceed 10% and in that we're also doing pretty well property tax 10% of property tax revenue property tax revenue is 63 million 10% is 6.3 million we're at like 5.9 million now and I'm sure Ian's going to give us he he he didn't give us a report on what projections like the middle school and the fiber debt will add and I do believe that that is a little bit nebulous in the sense that we don't know what interest rates are going to be for example or we don't know what the matching will be for the U Middle School exactly but it sounds like and correct me if I'm wrong we're going to drop a significant amount of debt in a couple years essentially and that and I do think that when those projects come on which are very valuable and worth perhaps going out of compliance for we will be out of compliance like there's no question we're going to be above these ideal percentages of 10 or 12% but it won't be based on my reading of the situation too diffic too terrible essentially we can absorb it and thank you for that lead in you kind of hit all the points that I really wanted to touch on so specifically talking about what it will look like in terms of the biggest in the room which is the Middle School the plan is to bond sometime in Fall of 25 to 26 and what Brienne tells me is that normally when you have a bond you don't pay it within the first year so the idea would be to bond an FY 26 and we would not pay an FY 27 which is considered The Sweet Spot of where we're going to see our general fund debt drop about a million dollar which is really what we're looking for in terms of cost savings on our overall Debt Service so that's what Andrew was alluding to earlier um in terms of the paving project uh you saw that it's about 3 to 500,000 of actual Bond premium as to annual payments this is given to me at a rate of a 3 and a half% coupon so that is you know that can vary based on where rates come in but as I said earlier uh the town of Long Meadow trades at a aa+ which is just below a AAA which is the best rating that you can have so um Bankers really like dealing with us when it comes to General obligation Bond so we should get very favorable rates when we go out to borrow great thank you yeah and I I think it's just important when we're looking at this that the you can't determine how much work or how much money should be spent towards the road by doing an eye test there's a lot more to it and so that's why there's pwns Side Road is significantly more than Bell Drive um at our last meeting we had discussed possibly using increased water rates for Emerson and but still on the list was there kind of further thinking on that good there there might be a problem with that considering that when we did that water main project we didn't include um the road paving as part of the overall project so we're going back now and be asking for the Enterprise funds to cover that in May able to speak to it better than me but I don't know that at this stage we'd be able to go back and say we needed the water sewer Enterprise to pay when we do Western driver any other areas in the future those projects will include the paving and rebuild as part of the whole bid package it just historically had not been added here um in the last few years but going forward it it will be okay that makes sense stay the clear there um okay anything else on this Mark I guess my my only question Sean is is can we do this a second year I mean if you look at in fact this chart that that we just had up there we've got about $580,000 in excess bonding capacity you know there'll be some inflation next year but you take that up a couple of percent that's another $10,000 but if we use 500 400,000 of that this year you know what is you know what's the long-term F I mean because the the the roadways need what was the number $25 million of of work on the roadways the pavment management Plan called for 1.6 or 1.7 annually to to catch up on our roads this project along with the current tip projects would certainly lower that amount a little bit but we have St storm water issues to address as well so that that 1.6 or 1.7 doesn't cover everything nor does it cover the parking lots which were included as you guys might recall it's been maybe a year ago so yeah there's a problem long term with maintaining the roads but I do think between the 4 million we spent this year a large bond in our future tip projects will be in a much different situation in terms of the quality of the roadways than we are now long term I I don't I don't know what to what to say except the numbers are you they the numbers I we'll do what we can right and with this proposal we'd be putting 300 and 50,000 is right towards its Bond and then still have chapter 90 funds and capital putting towards the point of the second part of this where we show the capital allocation is the select board can make the recommendation to use part of the capital pan allocation for rotor servicing towards the debt service to reduce the overall Debt Service which would ultimately continue to give us capacity in our bonding but also allocate the funds towards the project that we know needs to be done yeah and I think as I said at our last meeting this is kind of The Proposal that I in favor of where we can use Capital funds for Debt Service and then with the numbers and the way they've worked out we still have extra money to still put towards Paving every year on top of this Josh kind of two questions I I know you you made it you can't put an exact number on it but do you have an idea of how much we are saving by doing it this way like if we put all of these out separately the reason that's difficult is because it is Market dependent so the price of fuel and price of oil uh fluctuate which is why they can go up and even after we open bids that number can go up and down even if we did these 10 projects at the same time are we getting a discount by doing it all depends right so if these are spread out over years we're looking at like 10 like 5 10% inflation and the market for bidding is volatile as well but I I do think it's significant savings we saw that with the water main project um using Eastern numbers of 10 million which is what we had we came in $4 million lower um I don't think it's quite that extreme with this because this is based upon asphalt tonnage so that's a lot less but we're saving money mobilizing you know I'm guessing hundreds of thousands of dollars in savings um I'm optimistic if we go out to bid and open bids in January if this has pass that we'd have a very advantageous bid with a contractor trying to fill in 6 months of work and giving us giving using us as their base while they fill in with other smaller towns so it's it's hard to yeah yeah I I get that I I don't I don't doubt that we're saving money it just makes sense I just it may come up at town meeting that's why I can't give an exact number no I I I I wouldn't expect you to how many years of Paving projects are we tackling At Once by doing this well if you're figuring it's 1.2 1.3 million I think we've been doing this would be what 3 4 years yeah okay Lynn you know how uh question we we had talked about just now in last meeting about using some of the annual Paving budget to pay for The Debt Service Etc does that something that we need to codify here in some sort of motion or something or that's something that you can just do no so what'll happen is um the capital plan that's out right now if our departments they're going to submit to me I'll prepare it and it'll be the 300 if you assuming you go with the 5.1 million 350,000 that will be called out in my Capital plan I submit to Capital planning they can do what they want with it but ultimately you guys have the final say so you'll have many times to yeah to look at this again before annual Town Meeting thank you and I think the other question we had at our last meeting was the timing of this about doing this now versus annual town meeting and so I'm assuming it's better to do this now and better time to go out to bid exactly what I mentioned opening bids in January gives the contractors the whole year to fill in their work so we're giving them time and everyone's going to be a little hungry worried about what's going to happen the spring whereas if you wait for the chapter 90 money to come in and the July meeting we're all going out to bid in July and every Town's rushing in it's not it's not advantageous to do that thank you is is that the we're locked in on these These Streets to this am this amount per street so these are estimates these are estimates and they're not we that we don't know until we open we we also don't know these are guesses when we maill out if you have to put an inch Asphalt in or an inch and a half it varies so it's based upon tonnage but right I mean the the bids could come in at $1 million and they can come out at 2 million with based on your $5 million estimates I hope we're somewhere in the ball the question is the commitment is you know B Air Drive temporary 1-in milling and Shaker tempor we've no when you Mill there could be changes and when you Mill you might find that you have to do an inch and a half within each bid is contingency that we have to add more asphalt or we have so there's there's some wiggle room in terms of what we get into when we pave so this is a timely question because the way the warrant article is worded right now I called out each of the streets I don't go into detail about you know the linear feet or what's going to be M to what depth or anything like that but if you want to be more Broad in the streets I don't need to say the specific streets but I did put them in there right now so if you want to talk about how you want the warrant article to read it would give more flexibility did not I have five more streets that could could pop if we came in really great we could do more streets and they would you're saying if it's not specifically stated in the warrant we wouldn't be able to use the money for other streets right correct there's clearly an advantage to I think not putting the streets people are going to want to know those exactly could you say some word and others you know how we say greater or lesser some kind of thing could you do that this in some way like to give you open-ended and give some flexibility the problem is Lynn if for some reason the bids come in at $7 million we can't do all these streets even though they're in the in the motion so it works both ways not only do we hope to do more but we may not even be able to do this many and so these I'd be back before you saying the bids came in high what what do you guys want to do for we don't have the that we don't have that money I mean well we would be knocking streets off and there would have to be an itemized priority list but the problem is if you go to town meeting as a legislative body and you list the streets correct the people who live on the street that gets knocked off aren't going to be none too happy could you say something like discussed in by select board in Prior meeting dated blah blah blah and they could look it up I would yes I'd also assume that if we had streets that we couldn't fund that we'd be utilizing the Springs Capital if we had one to fill in what the overage was if you know what I'm saying so I think the benefits of not putting the streets outweigh the positives of putting them so we could do similar to what we did earlier which is in the explanation say the town intends to pave and then I list out the streets oh that would work in the explanation okay perfect um this aspires uh the this language does need to go to bond counsel just to make sure they're good with it um which they they haven't done yet but it was modeled after but with that language could he use it if if we have a surfit of money could he use it for other Ro that aren't listed in the intended to list I will make sure the explanation says intends to and then that list and then and say something like and other rows that may need repair something yes yep following this discussion it almost seems you know a a I'll say an educated guest to come up with $5,195 th000 to bond I mean aren't we better off saying we want to spend $400,000 in in capital costs and borrow however because we don't even know the interest rates right I've never seen an article wed that way I understand that but but you know that's like going to buy a car and they say how much can you pay every month you know instead of like yeah that doesn't I don't know about that well I I I get it but but yeah you know this is just the're we're picking a number to bond based on our estimates which I I like you Sean but it's a wrong number I don't know if it's wrong high or wrong low probably are correct I've only been really close like once or twice never it's not going to be that number so you know and and and what you know what we wanted to do was spend a a certain amount of money a year here right people are happy doing it this way we'll do it this way but it's well I think we all want to get it done so it's yeah a step in that direction and I think this is the way it's always been done I think that putting out the total amount is important for Town residents to know and also for us to Signal how much we are comfortable with spending total on this project but I do agree with making the change of providing the street names and the explanation and saying that we tend to CU I would like to give you wiggle room um on you know making those decisions depending on where the bids come in I'm move we adopt article 7 with the uh discussed slight changes in wording that Lyn is going to take care of second okay any further discussion all those in favor all right great thank you Sean um okay article 8 is the Municipal Light plant article um this is the same article basically that was in our May meeting same language this one just says this the second of two necessary votes I'm move we adopt article 8 second any further discussion okay all those in favor all right um article 9 is the other fiber article in regards to pull applications and design and Engineering um I think the explanation has been added this time since our last meeting and then the other thing to I guess highlight here is that there is language about this money being paid back to the town uh with the first issuance of the bond for a construction of the fiber Network because that was also something we talked about yeah Mark I I like that that's added what's the pro you know what's the process for paying back I mean it says we'll pay it back to the town but the town's borrowing the money it's like taking it out of your left pocket and putting in your right pocket because that my point is unless we're borrowing this and then saying we're actually borrowing it from an MLP you know fund or a you know something else it just I don't get it yeah I my when we've had this discussion my first thought was that the payback would happen through revenue generated from the fiber offering um and not necessarily from the issuance of bond but so but I think think this is how it's been done in other communities to create an Enterprise Fund in order to fund it that way and have it generate through fees yeah I think that's the idea yeah um but but I think this is we just kind of went with language here that other communities had used but I think Ian's right I think we need I mean I can I can see that you know we've done this before we pay back an Enterprise fund whether it's the ambulance fund or the whatever it is we've done that where the ambulance fund has paid back the the town General operating fund but we're borrowing money through the general obligation bonds so it may unless the explanation says you know that the total amount will be paid back from the Municipal Light and Power Enterprise fund when it's created to the town's General F cuz we don't even have an Municipal light right right my only point is I I I think I I like it I know the impetus behind the paying it back and I don't oppose it it's just it doesn't make sense the way it's written right now is this sorry yeah did you talk about it has the committee discussed this I know that Finance wasn't necessarily the focus there but but yeah revenues after initial revenues makes more sense yeah I mean this this came from when we when fers spring came and presented to us and we were just having our discussion I think that idea was brought up that the town should be paid back for this and so that's where this came from this wasn't part of like the task Force's recommendations or anything um I don't know if this is something that we should run by Town Council uh he did look at the warrant already he didn't have any comments on on this um but I can ask him specifically about this uh you just won't have an answer you have to close the warrant so you won't have an answer um it's in the explanation so that can it's not part of the motion um and what else was I going to say um it will be the if I'm understanding this right though it's the MLP that's doing the borrowing not the town it what the article does before this is creates a s a new entity that does the borrowing yes yeah will be the MLP borrowing so it'd be an agreement once the MLP is created I'm sure there's some agreement that could be drafted between the MLP and the select board to pay that back yes but AR I I assume we are guarantors on the probably yeah so yeah it's really it doesn't make sense yeah yeah I agree it's a good idea I just why pay interest on you just moving money around that you're that you just borrowed but I I think it it no sorry it I mean it's it's putting it back to free cash there you might have another immediate need yeah I that is true do we have to be specific here at this point and how where it's coming from nope yeah so don't wouldn't we say the the total amount will be paid back to the town's general fund from the mlp's Enterprise fund upon the first issuance of bonds that that would then clarify that the bonds are being issued by the m M LP recognizing you're right J but yeah we're the guarantor of the MLP but it's it's it's it's a separate column in this in the town's finances yeah I think that makes that makes more sense yeah I agree that makes sense okay so then what we want to do is the total amount of 49144 416 will be paid back to the town's general fund from the MLP Enterprise fund upon the first issuance of bonds for the construction of the fiber Network I'm move if we accept article 9 as amended second any further discussion okay all those in favor okay article 10 um ambulance fund I think we've talked about this one before um I don't know if anyone has any thing on this I'll move that we accept article 10 second any further discussion okay all those in favor I'm move we accept article 11 second any further discussion no uh all uh all those in favor okay article 12 that that Bond that's not on your financial Outlook right correct that Bond was never taken out correct from article 11 talk about yeah yeah yeah um okay so so 12 this amount increased $50,000 and that is not for any other reason other than every time I get an estimate from the attorneys the bills greatly exceed what the estimate was and so I cushion this 50,000 if you don't feel comfortable doing that we could reduce it and it will just reduce the free cash allocations um but we go to trial November 12th and I you're saying that it will end someday going to tral whether we have the money or not yeah I shouldn't say that to lawyers may be listening but I I just have a a question about the last sentence of the uh the explanation yep I know that that is theoretically possible yes I just don't want to oversell that cuz I I doubt it it says could it says could but even that I'm wor that is overselling it um we aspire to it yeah I I mean maybe but that it's been this language has um been here the explanation been the same um for the last three times we've gone forward but I mean I yeah anything's possible I guess you don't want to say promise s Josh guarantees I don't even want to promise it's going to trial November 12th that is that's frustrating yeah um all right I I move we uh accept article 12 second okay any further discussion all those in favor right Article 13 so H yeah go ahead Mar I just have a comment and and this applies to several articles here it's Article 13 and I think there are couple others like that where we partially funded them and then we're coming back for for more money I understand the process here and I know I'm not going to Prevail but it seems to me that good finances would say we resend the prior authorization and then put through a warrant article for the total so that people understand even though it says in the explanation for a total cost of 525,600 I'm of the opinion that the warrant article itself ought to be for $525,500 for for defraying the the the right away for all these uh you know right aways for this project and I know there's a couple other projects in here that we're supplementally funding and my comments so I don't have to repeat myself will be the same on those I don't know what anybody else thinks but I think it's kind of the truth and borrowing to the residents are those are they different fiscal years which one like this one is this Did We already pay so for Article 13 we appropriated that in annual town meeting 2022 so we have not spent the funds we just have appropriated them oh oh so so we can recent it I mean yeah I I would caution that we have not looked into that I don't know if there was some Mass DOT requirement for showing we had funding for the easement I I just don't know I I would be concerned about changing the wording to that extent right now without us having had time to vet it through other agencies that are actually supporting this project I think it's great that the explanation explains it I mean I don't think it's not I think it's pretty transparent me when when you think about it my understanding is most of these easements are temporary easements too yes and we're paying 500 half a million dollars for can we can we put a tractor or some pipe on your on on your lawn we'll fix it up when we're done while we while we do stuff in the road I mean it is what it is we're not going to adjust the amount but it's an awful lot of money to pay for What's primarily temporary easements yeah I had a question do we know how many houses how many properties this is It's 71 it's it's 70ish Parcels wow cuz a lot of the work is on our land so is there like a formula to decide I know that you get appraisals on it so I don't want us this the work itself is on a lot of it's on Town property you have to go further out than that because the back ho backs up the the equipment I'm not using proper engineering terms but for the for the right to dist disturb their property while we build on it's further than the bounds of what the actual pipe is going in the ground yeah I'm just trying to think I got my friends on route five wondering how much money they are coming in some of them will get good deal and some won't get such a goodal and some um people choose not to take the payment and that is an option you don't have to cash the check they want to send it to someone else all right anything else on this one uh I move that we uh accept Article 13 second all right any further discussion all those in favor okay great 14 so the explanation was um uh increased here to add the actual bounds of the project so see that in here okay project length is approximately 1.44 miles that that part y I think this this one to me speaks to what Mark was just saying about you know coming back and needing more money that had been the prior approach with the the last um the first phase of the tip design if you remember every Grand and we just that that's that's just not the approach we want to take um and so you see this here it's the full design cost do we do we believe we know when the state is going to come to us and say we're ready to do this project so not exactly and you know how the tip works as good as anyone um but there is always a chance that someone else will fall off the tip because they don't do their Engineering in which case it would be good to have ours underway or moved along so we could take their queue and move up um but it's likely uh the second we finish doing um the first phase of the tip we're probably going to start off in this that's the hope so two years would be the earliest I believe but I could move as you know a year either way thank you and I think you mentioned our last meeting design engineering takes about a year to do right yeah this you know it's quite a bit of of engineering so that's why we'd be good to get going now okay anything else on article 14 all right I I move that we accept article 14 second any further discussion okay all those in favor all right Article 15 uh this is in relation to the new accessory dwelling unit legislation that was passed and I think that this pretty standard right language that's kind of been given to us yep I'll move we adop Article 15 second any further discussion yeah just as a as a real estate attorney I I've been getting a lot of questions on this and I talked to Karen about it recently and it because it's unclear we the the statute allows you to build an accessory delling unit but you towns can reasonably restrict what you can do but it's unclear what under our town laws currently how that will factor in um so this is an important thing to do and it'll hopefully raise a lot of questions because right now we're kind of uh Running Blind thanks um anything else all right all those in favor okay moving over to article 16 this is the um unal vulnerability MVP Grant in regards to kly Brooke I think this has been a project we've been tracking any comments or just just comment this is another one where we've partially funded it and we're now going to come back and get some more money out of it pound's already contributed 63,500 yep I move that we uh accept article 16 second any further discussion okay all those in favor all right article 17 this is um and this was a conversation we had at our last meeting about purchasing the backhoe um and Len I don't know if you wanted to Sure fill in what you'll see the um toal amount of the purchase price has been reduced DPW was able to refine the quote uh and um I mean that was good because it it reduced it um we are still proposing to fund it just out of free cash and that is because the water and sewer Enterprise funds have a balance that's below the 500 th $500,000 threshold that your policy states the sewer stormwater Enterprise fund does have uh enough funds if you did want to just tap that Enterprise fund but we didn't make that distinction here we just kept it as free cash so it's up to you if you if you want to do that um yeah Mark what what's the delivery time on backos these days so fast so we can get one they're on a lot unlike the trucks which are a yearly time okay what was the quote before uh was it 230 was 2 250 okay anything else and I think this is we talked about this last minute too this is time sensitive we need this how make a motion we adopt article 17 second any further discussion uh Mike you need a space between life and I'm editing live on this one okay uh nothing else all those in favor okay all right article 18 the recycling cart article we talked about this too at the last meeting I'll make a motion we adopt articles 18 second any further discussion yeah I go Lyn my my concern is that we we may want a little bit more in the explanation to to sell it's a lot of money and you can see hear even from Irwin Pur people aren aren't sure of it I don't know how much we can share about the savings that potentially that this offers the town by going to fully automated recycling but you know clearly from my perspective this is a as a is a money maker not a money spender but yeah I'm not sure the explanation says that I don't disagree with you at all if you're comfortable with it at least approving this and letting me work on it a little bit more um um our procurement manager has been back and forth with the vendor until we have a contract signed I don't want to make any announcements yet um but if I anticipate we'll have that done by town meeting and depending on the lead time for getting this posted was it seven days two weeks two weeks I I don't know how much more information I can give I'll but if you're willing to let me yeah work on it I can do that well it says we'll provide considerable savings I we could say something at the town meeting if it's ready by them but I think we we need to let people know we're saving more far more than this cost yes okay thank you I I guarantee this is going to rile people up but because there the more information we can give them because it does give them what we know it makes total sense um but we just need to we need to yeah tell people quick question Lynn so is this something where in the past and Mark probably knows but for the trash contracts I mean is the select board have they been involved with these um negotiations or is it more or less you know you're working on negotiations and then you bring it to the board no so the way the charter is written regardless of the contract it's the town manager Authority um the way that we've kind of past practice established it here when it's trash um Mark has sat in he's been gracious enough to sit in the last two or three that I've been here okay um and really helps that process along we also have had arene Miller who's former d right kind of gets the lay of the land and a few other things but yeah but um uh I mean they're just they're major contracts obviously so so that's what the other thing I was going to say is well it's the town manager authority to sign the contract this is an incredibly public facing um service so it would be silly if there wasn't some discussion about it but the discussion doesn't happen during the the public discussion does not happen during the negotiation that is behind closed doors and the outcome of that is then shared and and Dan you'll notice that the contract hasn't even been brought to the select board yet for ratification because they're still finalizing negotiation with the vendors lat but but it will be because it's I think it's the biggest contract we have other under water yeah you don't actually ratify it you but we have a conversation about it I it'll be in my town manager report thank you all right anything else on article 18 we vote on it did we oh yeah yeah we already voted on it yeah yeah okay article um 19 Mike's looking at us like we didn't no no vote on it second guess I made let wrote down that we did well I wrote who made the motion in seconded no vote yet okay uh any any further discussion okay all those in favor all right Article 19 this is what uh spoke ad the Tom Andrew report go go ahead Andrew yeah pass second okay any further discussion all those in favor I move we adopt article 20 second okay any further discussion on this Josh no sorry got I myself okay uh all those in favor all right article 21 Josh is that the one you want to talk about no no I I was Voting yes oh sorry sorry okay so I think this is the one one of the articles that the moderator identified that was missing some information um yeah and we're unclear right now still um the missing information is um specifically what chapter and section um so Karen has plugged this in here as if it was replacing the current stretch code we're not clear that that's what the intent is and so um we've talked to our green communities representative he was not clear we've talked to Town Council he was not clear uh and suggested that we go back to the uh proponent of this and so I've reached out to the energy and sustainability committee and asked if they could just clarify if the intent is to replace the current stretch code or um be an additional bylaw to that to the the current stretch code so the difference um well replacing it would wipe out what's existing for the current stretch code I see okay I I'm just not clear I I don't know when be because there's already a State Building Code okay the Town only needs one supplemental building code and I would read this as saying you either have the stretch code or you have the you know specializ stretch code but you don't need both because the either one of them is building on top of the basic Massachusetts building code it yeah I mean that makes sense um and I do believe the effective date needs to be spelled out I think it's supposed to be 12 month months is it a year after usually that communities have been doing um this is very new and uh was not an initiative led by my office but um just mainly by timing not because we don't agree with it necessarily uh so I'm not entirely sure I think the effective date needs that needs to be plugged in and we need to choose what date that is it's it's giving some lead time so it gives notice in a lot of communities that's really important in in this community where we're already so built out the impact is not as great here given that what is our Building Commissioner uh think about this um he was in a similar position that uh the assistant Town manager and I were in where we were just trying to learn about it and see what other communities had done who had adopted it in western Mass there have not been many um amers did but they had that year grace period so they didn't actually have it in effect yet so um there hadn't been a strong opinion either way yet yeah that's what I was just looking up because I know that the energy and sustainability committee really modeled a lot of this after amr's approach um yeah I'm seeing they did a year um so um I I agree with Mark I think that I I think the purpose is to replace the existing stretch code do we want to approve this with um you know some kind of wiggle room on that I whether it should replace or usually if you're replacing and it's something in its entirety you would say delete chapter 135 in its entirety and replace as follows it just wasn't worded that way is there what's the downside of us doing that I don't know I I don't see one but I also haven't spent a lot of time on this one can we approve it based on deleting the old one and approving this one Josh you're the attorney yeah if you look at 135 135 is the stretch energy code so I would 135 well I don't know there is no Article 2 right now and so the way this is written chapter 135 building construction Article 2 is adding on because we only have article one right now and it article one is the stretch energy code with an effective date of January 1st 2014 a start date of 20 January 1st 2014 effective date of July 1st so and not being a building inspector I think that the stretch energy code is for certain types of construction so you would not want to delete article one because then we would have no building code to refer to for renovations and other building and so just the way this is written it's adding on on the 1355 is stretch code so I don't know and the fact that we're at setting our warrant and un unsure gives me pause excuse me pause maybe we should wait till the annual town meeting this isn't something it's not urgent it's urgent right yeah and the only thing that really this would affect is the Middle School building but it's not going to affect it you said no no it well well just that fall I will I would only add that when this was proposed to us it was I believe their memo or their presentation said we should have like robust public meetings to explain it to the community which we don't have time for you know like I was going to ask if we if we approved this is somebody going to get up there and explain to the community what it is and what would change from the you know enery sustainability committee I think that would be important because this without the knowledge me we spent hours looking at this but most people don't even know it exists I think at town meeting they would be the ones that do speak to it like answer any questions that folks have because it didn't originate from um Tom Andrew's office or any the Departments but let's not assume they're prepared to do that yeah but it's on them I mean I'm almost to the point we're saying defer this until I mean we've got a lot of questions about where it goes we've got to close the warrant how much construction is going on between now November and and may that we can't defer this for six months for five months whatever it is I do think that they will be best served by educating the public as they aspired to oh yeah no I agree with that I like they said that they thought would be important to I mean in public you know meetings and such not the T not like let me give you a 10-minute presentation notless it's size of town they actually said in their presentation we should do like public forums where we a couple I think they suggested um I think this is a a laudable thing to do and maybe something we should do but I don't feel comfortable if you put it on the warrant given where we're at right now without I think it's adding on and I think it's being put on but that's a a pretty basic question that I I shouldn't be saying I think God and um so I I would be in favor of deferring it I agree I think that we got a lot of our initial questions answered for example with the middle school I think we were all happy that it wasn't going to it was already kind of factored in but I worried that if we bring this a town meeting with very little public knowledge that it's is going to be very confusing it might not go well um and then a lot of people who aren't at the to meeting will complain that they didn't know they didn't know anything about it and I do think that this is a laudible thing that what is is worth making sure people are on board and understand what it's about I think the worst thing is it it's late in the meeting might just pass people might pass part of a uh consent agenda and then we don't I don't think it would be but then we people would have no idea so I think that that we have time on this I think so if we're going to take no no action tonight we just not not have a motion on this I mean my sense is like I said the furthest till till the annual town meeting and see what we can cross all the te's and Dot all the eyes yeah I I I think they when the energy and sustainability committee came and presented to us they did mention that they thought two a public forums would be good to have I think we've also talked about the actual effect of this is not necessarily going to be that great um or or not not great but widespread amongst buildings in town I I do want to I think my biggest concern is just making sure that the bylaws are done correctly here and that we are either replacing it or adding on to it in the correct manner well I I will tell you if we are replacing it and starting with one article two 1352 something is wrong yeah that would be maybe that's an ecode right there yep yeah and yeah and so I I I think we need to get that strained out so I would feel pretty comfortable saying we are not replacing but I want to know what uh Paul hilia thinks and without that uh I I don't feel comfortable Shing so we can take no action on this and then renumber the rest of the Articles correct okay all right so uh you know give folks an opportunity to make a motion if not then I'll move on to article 22 okay all right article 22 public shade trees uh We've also had extensive discussions on this article anything on this one how move we adopt article 2 renumbered as article 21 second any further discussion I think Andrew is going to read this one that's I already did looks good all those in favor he he meant at the meeting yeah at the meeting oh at the meeting I see the new guy the new guy wow all right uh um article 23 I move we adopt article 23 as article 22 second okay any further discussion okay all those in favor all right article 24 again these were bylaws that um you know Lynn had brought to us and we' discussed these in previous meetings I move we adopt article 24 is article 23 Second okay any further discussion yeah signs have always been an issue in in town and I guess the the question L is I I understand Town Council saying the bylaws we have are unenforcable so this now means that we have no bylaws at all so anybody can put up any sign they want to anywhere essentially is that what this is saying well they're zoning this was if I I remember correctly it says like you can only put up for election purposes right and it has it's language language limiting which we can't do Free Speech right it's uh in violation of Free Speech but but this this deletes General bylaw 242 MH okay does that mean we still have the bylaw on zoning bylaws on placement of science yes yes that's that's where we get the tree belt okay so so 242 it says related to events and elections so it's tag sales and whatever yeah so the sign I think the the last sentence of the explanation talks about this where it says you know it deletes these General bylaws instead Ries solely on that article yeah I tell you what I think the problem is um is we have temporary sign you can erect allowing what you can put up candate for public office an issue a town meeting some other issue or a function um but you can put up a Sign by law uh under the Constitution with whatever you want so that that's where this issue comes in and then the other the zoning bylaws are really um on for safety issues in placement okay the only thing I would this deleting the whole thing does seem like it goes beyond the Free Speech issue but um I I'll defer to Town Council on that okay anything else on article 24 no motion yet right yeah motion second Josh and Dan all right perfect um anything else all right all those in favor okay article 25 another bylaw that we've discussed previously um move we adopt article 25 as article 24 second okay any further discussion on this yeah just yeah it says that the Building Commissioner of the town of long meow order their designate is a powered to enforce these bylaws who's been powered to enforce the bylaws now there is no enforcement Authority okay thank you anything else okay all those in favor all right article 26 trees Shrubbery we've also talked about this at a previous meeting I will move we adopt article 26 as article 25 second okay any further discussion all those in favor right moving on to article [Applause] 27 any comments on this one Mark I I understand that this is putting in enforcement Authority but I think that all outdoor lighting shall comply with these require it's it's pretty nebulous I mean unless there's specific nature I mean there's going to be complaints you know multiple complaints given sobody street lights in my you know shining through our windows and all that and we even got it when we were upgrading street lights we said it's the same light that's been there for for years I I I understand I I guess I understand that we're doing this but I sure don't understand why yeah so D exempts um street lights but um they get the complaints already whether there's a bylaw or not the complaints are already coming in so this is the neighbor the neighbor's back back porch light that's shining in [Music] my now you can probably do something about it Mark that's a FL that's a flashlight that's the moon so on that exemption I just had a question it it does not apply to lighting that's within a public right away that illuminates out of a public right away do we know what that would mean um is the areas outside the PO RightWay or easement uh parking lot maybe or yeah I don't know I don't know the specifics um when this when kin created this um with the code enforcement and building inspector it's modeled after other communities I think she gave you a memo on this like September maybe yeah is like brightness is that does that play into this at all I mean CU you might have a light but it might be dim and you could have a light that's like a spotlight um and Dan there and lies the issue because what's di to you may be blinding to me well that's kind of my next question is do the code enforcement officers have are they going to have proper tools uh I don't know if there's a tool for lighting or things like that but um I would imagine this should probably be you know documented but maybe that's a second interation I guess the idea behind this is to have some a rule to allow some enforcement and if we don't like the way it's being enforced we can always change it obviously we know it's easier said than done yeah but it has to be a judgment call just like anything else unless because if we want to we can't get into like how many looms or whatever measur would be but the problem is Josh once you get into a judgment call on enforcement I think it's just becomes more problematic than it creates more problems than itself right but if you make it objective then no you say it's your light is 87 lumens and the limit's 86 you know I at least then you got an argument to say that's why you're in violation as opposed to your neighbor thinks this is too bright or I think it's too bright and I'm the code enforcement officer I mean I've only skimmed this a couple times I don't see anything about brightness it's about light trespass so right so think they're going to be measuring lumens right so the light if you know but Lyn light travels I mean short of putting up a barrier a light on somebody's property is going to be visible from somewhere else unless you know the and and it and even if they put in a light with like you know shading down it I think this says it can't you know it it can't move out I mean there's you know has to do with lights I mean you could defer this one like you've done with the stretch code one as well if you want get more information and it is pretty I me impacts on the nocturnal environment is pretty big especially at you know it's going to start getting light at 4:30 or dark at 4:30 around here I I guess I'm trying to I'm asking how big a problem do we have that we're trying to solve it with a with a bylaw that would create a bigger problem if we're getting three or four complaints a year we're going to get three or four complaints a year and then fights over them with bylaw about it in my opinion what kind of complaints are we getting now do you know light trespass my neighbor's lights are in my backyard my you know they're shining in my windows things like that says I can't do anything yeah so but that's why I think there need to be yeah but I think we also need to and we're not going to do it tonight but I think there needs to be some sort of standard from the the brightness as well because anyone could say that the lights are shining into your yard but you need to have some sort of measurement in my opinion that says it's 85 it's 60 or whatever it might be well in addition Dan is there a reasonable explanation close your Shades yeah I don't know I'm just throwing that out you know I think there's enough question that you should probably defer this and you live without it for this long okay if no one else says anything we'll move on to the next article okay article uh 28 so this is one that um came up last winter actually that the need for this and um this has been on my plate to get done and you already have there is a bylaw right now about uh removing vehicles for snow removal um it is out of date and it has the director of Public Works ordering the toe and keeping track of it and putting sending the list to the police department that is not how it's done anywhere um and so it came up last year with who can order a snow emergency and then who has who normally the way it works is the Public Works director and this is in any Community it doesn't not just here uh Public Works director orders the snow emergency and um as the plow drivers are driving around if there's a car parked on the street that's not abiding by it they call the police department who come and ticket the car for parking during a snow emergency and then they order it towed the police department does they have a rotating list of tow companies they use it all is through the police department uh and our bylaw as it sits right now is not worded that way and so um my proposal here is to to delete the existing bylaw and uh replace it with this bylaw that actually follows what practices uh it was too much to do a strike through because it was virtually everything so that's why you see um to uh delete it and then replace in its entirety as follows so Lynn does this more represent what's really happening or what we really want to have happen because there's no explanation at all for this yeah we don't usually provide explanations for the bylaws I can put one in here if you want um it's a little of both um there is generally very good compliance with not street parking during snow CU people just know that the plowers are going to come and you're going to get plowed in uh it has come up though time to time and it did come up a lot last year but but is it worth putting in here this ows an update of the process by which cars in violation of the no parking you know edict or yeah I can add an explanation just something so people understand it yep I'll make a motion we adopt Article 28 as 26 I guess a second any further discussion okay all those in favor all right article 29 I move we adopt article 29 as article 27 second and uh have we seen this map it's just going to change the uh the church property to business oh I know but have we like seen um like the map at all well it'll look like the current map it'll just change the color of oh person okay you can't insert it into this as is we're going to have to when we rearranging and do a PDF at the end we'll insert a page actually under it with map okay to be printed more or to be published printed in black and white so you w be able to tell anyway actually it doesn't get printed fall town meeting it gets posted y okay but we will provide copy there and Josh you made a motion right yep okay second uh any further discussion all those in favor article 30 uh I might as well put it in I Ive we adopt article 30 as Article 28 second any further discussion on this I I think this kind of comes along with the next one uh and when we were talking about the commercial vehicle bylaws it revealed some other things that could be cleaned up uh but they they are like secondary setback line was causes a lot of issues in when we were discussing this and I it's keyed into to other places in the so I it makes sense to update this even if we're not doing the next one anything else okay all those in favor all right and then the last one article 31 how move we adopt article 31 as 29 s 29 second any further discussion on this all right all those in favor oh I was wrong about which one was next never mind um well I will move to close the um fall special town meeting warrant second any further discussion okay all those in favor okay great okay uh moving on to new business um we need to set the November 5th presidential election warrant um it was attached to the the agenda I'm move we set the warrant for the 2024 state election second any further discussion all right all those in favor okay and I'll go ahead and sign it and pass it around for you guys to sign as well um and then moving on to street closure applications Green Acre for Halloween I'll move we approve the street closures for request for Green Acre Avenue on October 31st from 4:30 p.m. to 9:00 p.m. that's a scary motion waiting all day for that nice all those in favor all right okay um and any comments about correspondence great I'll move we Jour second uh any further discussion all those in favor all right great thank you everyone thank you e