##VIDEO ID:8uyBfM00EmY## we'll talk about that and just for and just make sure you guys speaking into your microphone so they can pick up everything you're saying clearly okay you and proceed yeah um we'll give them let's minutes let's give them a couple minutes okay it's already with you all Let's uh see if I give her a couple minutes e there won't be substantive business until 605 yeah okay at this time at 603 at this time at 603 I call this meeting to order of the Agri tourism uh committee on August 26 202 for and at this time we'll stand for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all okay at this time I'll call roll Committee Member Joseph Chamas yes here Committee Member Darren Swank here Committee Member Manish Su Committee Member Jeff slug Committee Member Lisa hman is absent the town uh the assistant town clerk Sammy Brown is present uh project coordinator Jeffrey CTS here we have a quum and we'll proceed the first item we have on the agenda is a swearing in of the committee members do you want to do it individually or as a group okay so at this time you'll repeat after me uh we'll start with it'll start with i and your name I I I your name SW do SW do solemnly swear and affirm that I will support [Music] support protect yep protect and defend the Constitution protect and defend the Constitution and the government of the United States and the government of the United States and the State of Florida and the State of Florida and the charter of the town of Locke Groves and the charter of the town of loat groves that I am duly qualified to hold that I'm duy qualified to hold office under the constitution of the State of Florida Office under the constitution of the State of Florida and the charter of the town of Loach Groves and the charter of the town of Loach Groves and that I will well and Faithfully perform and that I will well and Faithfully perform the duties of the Committee Member upon which I'm about to enter the duties of the Committee Member upon which I now about to enter at this time you have now been sworn in the next item on our agenda is the selection of officers for this committee starting with uh the starting with the chair at this time I'll entertain a motion to select a chair of this committee I time he's like me to do it okay do we have a motion yeah okay Al righty so a formal motion by Darren Swank to make Mr Jeff slot the committee chair yes Y and do we have a second yep second Mr Joseph Chamas have second that yes all in favor yes yes all opposed that passes unanimously and at this time we will now select a vice chair I'll entertain a motion for a vice chair why not all right Vice chair thank you Committee Member Jeff sluggett has nominated Mr Manish Su as the vice chair of the committee do I have a second yeah second by Committee Member Joseph Chamas okay we now have our chair and vice chair but for the purposes of this meeting I'll facilitate and then at the next meeting uh Mr sluga you will be the chair and you'll take over at that time our next item on the agenda is a presentation by Miss Tanya early our legal council on the sunshine laws and code of ethics Miss early are you there I am here can you see and hear me yes yes yes okay delay hold on we're having we're having a little problem say say a sentence like hello how are you you can you hear us Tanya you might want to log off and rejoin it says your connection is unstable oh actually um I'm gonna try to just do my best um can you all hear me okay um no not right now on and off um I definitely hear and try again see on the screen that you can't really see me okay we can see you and hear you clearly now you can't I think it's I think it's frozen again yeah it's frozen again definitely a weak connection you might want okay you might want to log off and try rejoining I will be happy to do so Mr chair I apologize for the delay actually that might be better we can hear you we can hear you pretty good now can you hear us Tanya I don't think she can oh okay it's delayed yeah it's being back up let letter try to get back on and while we're waiting for her has have all of you had a chance to read the previous um report that was supplied from the last session yes I don't think I ever saw it okay was in your agenda package oh in here yes okay could you summarize it what happened why did it fail when we when we get there okay I'm back can you allow me to share my screen yes let me give you the permissions again that sounds better good all right you should have the permissions to share your screen um hold on let's get out of here okay are we good now yes we can hear you okay I'm just keep going I'm hearing you guys on a delay doesn't sound right Jeff just kind of wave at me okay okay if you just okay so committee members good evening yes committee members good evening my name is Tanya early um I work for the town office clearly Tech um so the purpose of this evening is to talk about sunshine public Tanya I think it's it's not working why don't we just we'll we'll bring you back for the um next next meeting um and uh have the the sunshine presentation for them at that point in time because right now unfortunately it's uh we're having those technical difficulties and I think it's probably bothersome to to you and ineffective for us I couldn't T we're gonna sign why don't you sign off and I apologize to the committee and I it's not not your fault oh she left already okay okay we're gonna proceed um I think uh Jeff is gonna now well yeah committee Le on is gonna are you going to do the recap or are you gonna go into the discussion I'm going to all right all right um this is the reconstituted um AGR Tourism Committee um I was not involved in the previous um efforts uh there were meetings that were held in the beginning of this year um to look at Agri tourist and come up with some suggestions um that there's a report that's been attached and I'm gonna I'm going to read um for you what we are supposed to do then we'll then we'll talk about it um and after I read the the purpose I would like to have everybody introduce themselves to each other um and let me know whether or not you were on the committee before but the purpose of the committee is to review the report and recommendations from the previous uh committee which was just a few months ago and recommend to the Town Council potential substantial offsite impacts of agrotourism activities and to develop recommendations to balance the needs of the AGR tourism operation with the health safety and Welfare of the public and peace and Tranquility of the surrounding residential communities such recommendations include identification of potential substantial off-site impacts and how to identify any additional potential substantial offsite impacts how such impacts should be measured to establish whether the impact is substantial and how such impacts should be and there's a typo here uh mitigated not impacted is the word um but uh I I think we had so many impacts and so many substantials in there um that uh you might have thought probably an attorney wrote it uh and being one uh I can't take credit for it um but I I understand that that to me there's a lot of Superfluous language in there um and I think what our purpose should be is um to look at AGR tourism um as it exists in in the in the town um talk about whether uh the agrotourism businesses have an impact on the surrounding properties um and then try to uh indicate whether or not there's big impacts or little impacts and whether or not we can come up some with some solutions as to how they may be addressed um because everybody my perception is that everybody in the community um appreciates the fact that we are a unique community and have these AGR tourism businesses here it's part of what makes Lo lockah haty grows different special unique whatever you want to call it but it's it's part of making this place what it is um and at the same time the AGR tourism businesses don't want to um be viewed negatively by their neighbors because that uh that's problematic for for everybody now you're never going to be able to make everybody happy as Darren can tell you um but uh living together and living in ibly is uh a goal of this and I think understanding how the business the businesses work because they're not all the they're definitely not all the same there's there's differences between them um what I want to to do uh especially tonight is listen to you all about what your businesses are um and get to know each other a little bit and we'll go over briefly um with uh the the recommendations of the the prior board um but Manish had asked whether or not what what it was that failed with the other group I wasn't involved but I don't have the perception that they failed um no I said W failed why the W well why would no they my understanding is they came up with recommendations um and then the council um month or two later um with some fresh new faces on it wanted uh the committee to take another another look at it and see um where we could go and maybe get some more definitive uh sorts of recommendations and and focus once again obviously on those substantial impacts and what they are um so um with that uh what i' what I'd like to do at this point in time is introduce ourselves um I'm Jeff CTS I am the project coordinator uh I have a long background in uh local government um I most of it has been as an attorney um I've been a City attorney assistant City attorney and a number of places I have also represented folks for local government bodies um for the last year well I guess it's a year and a half or so two years um I have been acting as uh the project coordinator here um which means I do a lot of things um Jack of all trades master of none um involved in all kinds of things budget uh related um some new experience is for me um and uh involved with uh this committee and several others um and uh I'm I think I'm the oldest person in the room I just wanted to note for the record at 620 Our Town manager Francine has joined us right hi I'm so sorry if I'm cutting Mr Kurt short on that story so I'll wait until he's done but I'm in here for a very specific reason and some of you know what it is well uh that was that was my introduction if we could go around and introduce ourselves to each other let me know if you were on the committee before and what your interest in being on this committee is now before you do that if you don't mind the reason I came in to join you is because I actually work worked with this committee on the first Go Round And I know one of the concerns of the committee was their recommendations weren't going to be heard so why were we going through this process and so at least two of you are back again to look at your own work um you are not here because that work wasn't well-received and you are not here because that work isn't a very good start I think that we're back here to see if there is anything that needs to be um um added to it and if there's anything um that we need to address relative to implementation of those things and also there are a couple of new faces but I wanted to step in here like I said for a very specific purpose and I knew that in all of the meetings and all of the efforts that we invested in the last go round there was concerned that this would not be taken and implemented and I am here to tell you that you have a fresh face with Mr kurts and you might take a fresh look at it but you're here because we are going to implement it and we have already change the way that we've been approaching AGR tourism um and um I just hope that you know we can continue the good work that we started at the first time and I'm not going to make any further comment or introduction I just want to come in and thank you for serving and remind you it's actually going to be implemented thank you have a good rest of your night and I'm happy to see you all than well you're the chair Jeff you might as well having you thanks so my name is Jeff sluggett um I am a lifelong resident of Palm Beach County lived in Lo gr for the past 20 years Western communities out here probably another 10 years being that probably so 30 years out in this particular area um I have a questioning background years ago don't mind much anymore have been in the somewhat in the livestock business with my family we still have cattle on our property been involved in hes like I said for many years and over the years through my business which is uh you know I'm a government relations consultant in my company's Jeffy slogan Associates small boutique government relations lobbying firm uh We've represented various agricultural Ventures over the years from sod farms to Vegetable Farms to uh estrian farm and some ranches as well have that background per se my business directly is not in it I've had a lot of experience with it and in fact here in Lo at Groves and full disclosure I represent one of the groups that has one of the horor shows that currently started taking place past two years here in L grad so and theyve are considered a an a ag tourism business here in groves and obviously they're very interested what's going to happen but uh obviously I'm happy to participate but I think this is very important because lot tat you grow is very unique um but we've got some other agricultural communities and I think we'll get into the discussion we got Wellington across the street which has a huge equestrian industry there as well I start get an idea of how they're handling some of these issues as well but uh in the nutshell that's it and I'm glad to participate and thanks ladies gentlemen for being back here and doing it again yes yes hello my name is Joseph Shamus I own gratitude Garden Farm we're a certified organic farm we grow um micro greens mushrooms turmeric ginger fruits um we are also an educational Farm we do um glamping Retreats which are one or two night educational Retreats that go over all aspects of organic farming in regards to uh planting uh we also give mushroom classes um and uh it's more of a it's a it's a really in-depth um educational uh two-day Retreat and that's really what we're uh bringing to Loach Gros right now with with something that's kind of new I don't think that's really been done here before so it's definitely um a newer experience trying to work through all the nuances with Agro tourism you know still it's kind of newer in in this area I know uh Darren Swank's been doing it for for a long time so he's one of the Pioneers here but there are some newer projects coming up and and uh looking looking forward to hearing some of the others that are uh that are uh making their way in in Loach Groves so that's fine all right my name is uh Darren Swank from Swank special produce up on North Road and we've been here since 1999 growing produce for the communities of brow Brown Beach and D County uh we this is our 14th season of doing Agri tourism events probably the reason why everybody's here for the most part um but uh I don't know I mean we're um I mean we went through it fairly well last time so I guess we'll just go through it again and I'm not sure if anything's going to change but I guess we'll see how it goes as we progress and that's it hi there uh is anybody listening on on the YouTube or is it just us for now oh it's being streamed right now all right anybody who's watching thank you for listening to very boring but important conversation uh my name is Manish Su I and my family own 24 carat Ranch um we bought this 10 acre ranch about 3 and a half years ago we started with equestrian uh which we still do and we uh quickly went into breeding we breed um Minature horses miniature goats uh miniature pigs miniature cows you name it and uh we fell into agrotourism uh just by chance my background is engineer and I started multiple technology companies and uh took all the way to private equity and venture capital um and I specialize in healthcare and Ai and uh farming has been a passion for us uh I I was raised on a farm so we started this and right now we are one of the number one goat yoga place in Palm Beach County people come to us from all over the country and uh we promote all of our businesses we tell them about Swank we tell them about other businesses so it's very good ecosystem that is generated here um so e agrotourism has been growing very well for us uh we also do Full Moon Festival cultural events music events uh we also do animal um you know classes where kids from all over the Palm Beach County and Beyond come to our farm to learn about you know how to take care of animals we also do programs for special need kids we host a lot of autism groups we host a lot of military veterans we do lot of trauma sort of I wouldn't call it therapy but lot of programs are oriented towards people to relax and enjoy the F life so we are very excited about AGR tourism and um you know this is a privilege to be a part of this group and discuss how we can add to the experience of Lo sahi Grove residents and AGR tourism at the same time thank you pleasure um let's go to the go to the report that the committee prepared which is on page 28 of your agenda um and there were five recommendations that were the previous committee made um oh this is just for you guys to sign and give back to me the the first the the first recommendation was that um uh that substantial off-site impacts of agrotourism [Music] activities should not be included as a section um if if we were to propose another ordinance um and there's a note that potential substantial offsite impacts can be addressed by the code enforcement process um those of you who are on the committee is do you recall that that discussion and that recommendation um because it's one of the the charges that we have is to take a look at what the potential impacts are um and the way I if I was to if I was have an equestrian Farm um and I wanted to do uh an AG tourism business in which I would have uh 10 people come on the on the weekend and have we would have a a barbecue on on Friday at place we go on a trail ride on Saturday and Sunday mornings Saturday night um you know as a part of this they'd see how to take care of horses um you know feed them you know muck out stalls all that kind of stuff they'd see see what it was like Saturday night we'd load them up in the van because remember there's just 10 of them we'd go to Boonies so that they could experience what lockah hatchee is all about um and uh you know uh on Sunday um after well after Boonies uh we might have uh some you know campfire music and stuff like that and um sip some more adult beverages uh then get up the the next day and have a nice picnic and I'd charge some reasonable amount for that um and I'd have 10 people and I would do it because my house is big enough that it could hold those 10 people easily and I would step off into the um the uh caretakers quarters and stay there for the weekend well you know we had the cooks and everything uh handle all of that so that's sort of my vision may or may not exist in some form um and and when I look at that I'm probably saying that doesn't really have any impact um uh because I've got in the example I forgot to tell you I got 10 acres um and so and so finding finding places uh for 10 cars to to park on my property that's not a big deal they're in my driveway or just off to to the side um and and everything is relatively contained um 10 people um plus two guides riding around the the trails here together offsite not not a big deal um and you know doesn't have any real impact out there um and you know the the van ride um to to Boonies we've got a designated driver so we're going to be okay there um and the music uh it's probably not going to be that loud around the the campground um you know some of the folks may be skinny dipping in the pool but that's really not going to hurt anything offsite um and there we are but as my business grows and all of a sudden I start taking in a hundred people a weekend now I might have more of an impact um so I I think those are the that's just my off the CU you know example of how you can have two AGR tourism businesses one relatively uh small but once that same business grows to a certain extent it's going to have more impact I'm going to have to think more about well parking a 100 cars on my property that that may be more of a challenge um you know having a 100 Riders out on uh the trail system that may be a challenge um because our trails are not that extensive or wide and all those kind of things um so and 100 people at all comeing to Boonies now I got six bands um that's that's G to be boom uh we're we're going to uh we're going to have more of an impact um out there so I know by the way uh my house got a lot bigger because I now got a hold 100 people there um or maybe I've got some T sites uh maybe I've got uh you know to to figure a way to uh get more property um and have several locations all those kind of things things um so once again exactly the same business the model has grown there's going to be more of an impact I'm ignorant as to what constitutes the type of the type and the scope and the size of businesses that we have um in town okay maybe that's not good uh that I'm your committee L on on the other hand I'm open uh and want to learn about it um and then as we talk about these businesses uh then maybe we can answer some of the questions about impacts and how things could be affected I know that uh one of the things that the prior committee wanted to discuss was um signage in the sense of being able to have some offsite signage um and right now that arguably is not allowed in in town um and so uh that's something that we should uh we should be addressing and see if we can come up for some solutions for that um the the other comments that were in the reports is the report as I understood it was was um don't want to focus on AGR tourism as such um but whatever uh the noise regulations are it should be imposed on everybody and then if AGR tourism an AGR tourism business violates that they should be um code enforced and and see if they can do that on an individual basis but what I would like to to hear from you because you guys are the expert um uh tell me more about and tell us more about um how the businesses operate um and you know uh whether there's 50 people 10 people 100 people thousand people all those kind of things and what the differences are um within the the the industry I know uh Jeff's uh je SE equestrian client um it it is a it is a hores show operation but it's not a hes show operation like wack is over there um much smaller scale not as um not as many uh visitors um or Spectators um most of the people that come are uh participants um so that's going to be a different impact but but when you say it's a hor show yeah it is a hor show and you know so I'm going to hopefully be quiet for a while and I want to hear from you guys as to what AGR tourism businesses are out there um in town and and how they operate and what you think their impacts are small large substantial or insubstantial Jeff let me let me ask you a question before we get too far into the weed on this discussion looking at the Florida statute what does the statute say as far as how much can you regulate offsite impacts like we're talking about because I know when I've looked at it and I probably need to go back and look at it again but it's not real clear it's pretty uh almost like clear as mud it just doesn't it's not real objective there's not objectivity as to what those potential I think that how much I think well I I think that's that's a correct summation but the the statute does talk about you know um offsite impacts but I think so I wait wa but it does the specific word in the statute is substantial right right no no so if you don't you guys have to use that word nobody wants to use it but it's the word that's the key to the whole story okay Darren okay that's fine I'm just I'm just want to clarify no I I I I understand to hit that home all night what what here here's the thing okay what I'm telling you is it at least me I'm like an open book I don't have a position on this I want I want to to learn so when you talk about um us or or them it's not an us or or them sort of situation um what I want to work with this committee on is gaining an understanding so that we can put something together and maybe the something is no we don't need anything um but in order for when you when you get into the substantial okay it's like the example that I that I gave um 10 folks probably everybody can agree that's that's not going to have a substantial impact especially if it's just you know on the weekend or every other weekend kind of thing throughout the year um you know whether anybody will even notice is a is an issue if I have a 100 people um that's that's another level whether that's substantial or not that's what we would kind of talk about when we're talking about a specific business if we got a thousand people coming I'm probably substantially impacting all right um and I'm not making a judgment about that right now I'm just saying that's a that's a kind of example that you can have exactly the same thing going on but depending on the amount of people that you're servicing your impact levels are going to to go up um what I honestly need or would like to hear from you all is what kind of businesses do we have in town uh you know can we categorize I want to work work with the folks in town and maybe the answer is we come up and we say okay this type of business has a very very limited impact this type of business may have something more um and then we can we can get to those questions about what substantial or not substantial I don't you know for right now it's a to me it's a conversation and and hopefully learning about the the businesses and not relying on assumptions um because we don't have we don't have the staff um to go out and you know do a market survey of all the businesses that are that are out there um and one of the things too is when when we do when the town does receive complaints um it's helpful for us to understand what's going on uh at the business in order to be able to say well that's been looked at and that's been determined that it's not substantial and one of those things we're just going to have to to live with or wow that's that's something that we didn't realize and maybe we'll have to take a look into but right now for my purposes what I'd like to you know in our purposes as a um as a committee uh what we've been asked to look at is what does constitute a substantial impact and in order to understand that first of all I think we need to talk about what kind of businesses are out there and you guys are much much more familiar with what's going on in this town than than I certainly am or anybody in on staff is because you're actually operating them so you have more questions you don't just you want to go next I'll go all right so I mean the AGR tourism is for supplementing subsidizing the farming or any type of Agriculture because that's how it's written you could do anything nurseries what have you so it I mean let's get let's understand that it's for supplementing keeping these Farmers here attracting the ones that have the ability to do it and and making it worthwhile for them to achieve the goal of farming or nursing or horses or whatever El happens to be so there's a purpose for it I mean some folks think that I mean you know I'm sure there's folks that use it just to make money and what have you but you know from our perspective of what we do I mean we're using it to subsidize supplement our income to keep us you know our heads above water and and and that's really the basis of why we use it so and we've probably been doing it the longest I don't think there's anybody else out here that has I mean we were here before the town was a town I remember went through this whole thing but we can do it again you know we were here before the town was a town and we've been doing it for 14 years never abused it you know our our you know our times are always off by 8 n o'clock so well before the 10 pm County ordinance is that's what the town sound was um as far as the traffic there was really much not much of a complaint on the traffic it was more the queuing safety pertaining to the queuing of the cars entering the property and exiting and that's we went over with Francine the last time and you know I adjusted my direction of travel Andor opened up a secondary option for parking which alleviated the queuing and I believe the code enforcement was out there a couple times after the fact and there is no more killing so the flow of traffic is Flowing it's not stopping so that eliminated the safety issue from the fire department or what have you and outside of that the lighting really isn't an issue because I don't use a lot of aggressive lighting so that that was I don't think I even had that dust I don't think I had dust either and then the noise like I already talked about you know we're done by 8 n o00 we do events for our personal executed events we do 10 a year same amount we've been doing for a while we might get one or two weddings a year possibly but we don't even we don't even we don't even go for those we we're not advertising for them we don't people call us for it and the way I and you know JY charges you know a decent amount to rent the venue and you know but we don't chase after it so the folks that come to us you know like our pole barn and our farm is a working farm so it's rough it's not manicured it isn't pretty per se I mean from some perspectives the way I look at is the folks that want to use our barn are using us to help support the farm not necessarily to you know go out and do the Instagram photos because you know I guess it's beautiful in some regard but there's certainly some others out there that are way nicer you know as far as the money that they spend on maintenance and or look right so you know so that's how I look at that now our Saturday Farmer Market we started that when covid happened because they shut all the farmer markets down I me we spent 19 years down in West Palm Beach and that March 8th they shut all those farmer markets down we still had months of produce to sell and previous that a couple Seasons when the farmer market would end to West Palm in April whatever it was we would come to the farm and do a couple invite a couple vendors out and we did a couple of you know weeks worth of vending there and then like I said when the co happened we moved over there and all the other farmer markets were shut and then so we were doing that on Saturdays and then so we had a captive audience which made that successful and then we continued with that because people appreciated and not for nothing not to you know to the down West Palm Beach Market but you know 25 years ago that was on Bion it was 60 vendors and it was primarily all just food products and then they turned that into to 180 vendors maybe even 200 I don't even know where it's at now but then it turned into you know Antiques and and whatever so most of your food buyers that really want to buy and and they they're looking for the fresh produce they just want to go and shop and go home they don't want to have to navigate through this Ma and then West Palm they actually separate the food vendors and quad out throughout the entire facility that they use and make all these folk walk the entire hire property to shop so you could see well now they charged for parking back in the day it was free so then you got a walk walk walk so you know so for us in our Farmer Market which we get plenty of folks from the community and surround the community you know they appreciate the ability to and not for nothing I will state that lock Hatchy grow one of the complaints was that they couldn't even get our produce you know we were here but you know back in the day we were just selling to restaurants and so forth and nobody had access to our food so now they have access to the food and so I think that's a benefit for the community in general if you're looking for those types of products um so for the Saturday market a couple hundred people probably but it's three hours and we probably do 32 of those a year whatever it is from October through the beginning of June it's three hours and it's not like every well the first day is always challenging like with anything but outside of that there's always a nice flow of car in Ingress and egress and it actually works quite well um as far as the events obviously when you and and the way I speak about that is you know like when the fairgrounds does events if you ever driven by there those those folks are queued up to the turnpike get trying to get in and out of the amphitheater whatever and they have the police there and you know everything and you know there's the complaint is you know the you know the traffic whatever but you if you anytime you bring that many folks together to congregate at one specific time you're going to have more challenges than you would if it spread out over a three-hour period of folks coming and going so with your um with the 10 events how many how many people do you somewhere between 2 180 to 240 would be our maximum okay and so they fair to say that they probably average about two people per car it's anywhere from 60 cars to 110 maybe okay somewhere now I will because Francine was talking about you know the valet system which does work you know because we tried that a couple times on the as you know it's more cost to do it but they were able to it just seemed like to me that you know folks can just p in you're not going to have the delay of the folks getting out before the next car comes in because they just come in and they park it for you which is you know if you're the valet drivers and Parkers they Park quickly you know they're not in and out you know what I'm saying it's it's a business so it did expedite the parking and it seemed like it went much smoother I will say that okay and and with the the farmers market it's probably about the the same at any one point in time like 60 60 cars yeah approximately 60 cars on any gift given moment okay but that spread out over a three-hour term all right yes and I haven't been to your place I don't I don't know do you have a Consolidated area for the park the parking yeah so we we have parking on the north side of our property and we have parking on the south side of our property and then there I also when they were concerned with the queuing I opened up a third spot for like vendors or who are the staff that's attending or whatever you have for those folks to park more or less towards the middle the property and then we use the North and or south parking for whether you know for cars for the visitors uh we won't use the south parking unless it's you know the first day for you know if it's it depends on the time of season and what's going on you know sometimes you need the South Park and then sometimes you don't so it sounds it sounds like and anybody can jump in I'm just asking sure um it sounds like the biggest issue that you have the impacts the the neighbors would be a queuing situation yes from a car standpoint yeah which which which we resolved from you know using the the d The Double parking situation alleviated that yeah better management of the internal circulation yes so I mean that worked well for the farmer market for sure that pretty much got rid of that entire situation now with the events like I was saying everybody's coming at a specific time so it's much much much much harder to alleviate the Q situation right you see what I'm saying and that's when I talk about the you know the Ampitheater and so forth like anytime you have and they have thousands and thousands of spots yeah so it's not necessarily the number of spots you have it's the time constraints of getting the folks you also with your property um you only have a single means of ESS there's only one way to get to your property yeah well since they closed off the back gate that's a correct statement okay back when the back gate was open some folks did come from that direction yes but no more within town is there is there any current operation that has more people coming to it at one time or over the course of a three-hour period than than Darren did anybody know anything Church uh well the it's the church but I don't know if it's the church does they have every Wednesday they have a substantial amount of folks that come for the food there and it's always queued up on okobe Boulevard that's okobe Boulevard it's not a side street either so and the and the church operation is that a farmers market or what no I think it's SC Drive I think yeah Pantry Pantry yeah there's always a huge line on the food pantry but it's a food pantry right okay so that that wouldn't fall no within the the AGR tourism no but it's still but I understand it's got It's got an impact yeah yeah and that was my original complaint I was like well you're coming after the swing Farm but what about everybody else in the town okay you know what I'm saying I just want to be treated fairly that's that's really where I've always said was always my statement and position um and you can I don't I don't want us to I certainly don't want us to talk negatively about any other anybody else's business if if you're aware of other situations that have some s some impact or other situations that you would say don't have any impact let me know because once again in my mind the reason you guys are on the committee is you're the experts not just about your own business but you're familiar with the the town and its area AG tourism um industry if you will I mean I don't know of any others but that doesn't say that they're not going to happen in the future right or it's going to grow or not grow or what have you one point I just like to make too is all these operations are Bonafide egg uses I mean their Farms that's their primary business like as Darren was saying that's not you know having s dinners those are not that's not this primary business to farming right yeah know but at the same time we're talking about Community impacts and so forth but we've got some large straight A forget the a agism side of it to straight agricultural businesses nurseries and so forth that provide or that have very significant impact on our community and some of most of them are nurseries that don't aware of but very significant as well so I know it's going to be somewhat sensitive in having this discussion about well from the Aver tourism side those impacts but you know we have impacts from the agricultural industry all over while actually go and that's uh we have infrastructure that you needs to be you know the town's working on improving those that infrastructure and so forth but that's significant impact so I think we have to we have these discussions and we have to balance that as well and take that on consideration yeah it's true I mean you know equestrian has the smell equestrian has the Flies you know so they everybody impact you know I've always said this from the beginning that every every business in the town impacts a town in some format this you know this isn't just the agrion folks or the Farmers here yeah what one of the things like the the if you talk about the smell and those kind of things for the most part you um on a on a farm and you know I may be ignorant about this but for the most part um that that smell of a horse farm is confined to the the horse farm um I don't know about that's the true statement I don't agree with that because I smell manure on my property you know from horses and I know Joseph speaks about that too if the wind's traveling doesn't bother me but I do smell it I do smell it and then another point that I'd like to make that I've been making since day one is the the town is zoned agriculture residential it's not residential agriculture it's agriculture residential so the folks that moved to this zoning yeah either one they didn't know where they were moving or two they didn't do enough research something there's a break there you know if you're going to move to that zoning it's not a PUD it's not you know RR it's agriculture residential so everybody knew where they were moving when they moved out here now you know back in the day maybe there wasn't a whole lot of this stuff going on but the county sent to set this apart when I asked where to go when I was doing research on this Farm back in 96 I said where should I go and Arthur kersen said go out to lock Sai Grove said zone for what you want to do I said where you shouldn't be and that's where you should go and I was like okay so that's what I did and I came out here and this is where I bought well I guess where I'm where I'm coming from when it comes to to Smells is um long time ago when I was in high school um uh the high school that I went to um right next door to to us was a farm um and it seemed like it was during football season um they would come out and we called it the Honey Wagon would would come by and uh it would spread the the honey you know right when we're practicing you're inhaling you're breathing hard all those kind of things and so that was like a very direct experience with the smell being very close but smells dissipate very quickly like if you're you can smell something for like a minute or something along those lines and then after you're in it for that long well that that that smell loses its overwhelmingness to to you um but get used to it yes that's exactly right you get used to it right and and it's a very quick adaptation so I just just so you understand that's that's my perspective on on smells um you know from a long time ago very very powerful odor odors coming from a very near thing in a situation where I was breathing heavy um it was okay after a little bit so uh um uh Joseph you want if you could tell me about your operation sounds uh like how many people how many people come in for the The Retreat The Retreat and the and the um educational courses at um you know at a particular time and sure the Retreats last for a weekend but like so the Retreats yeah we're we're probably you know we're first and foremost we're Farmers um you know we're we're heavy in mushrooms so we grow Gourmet mushrooms and we sell to about 100 over 100 restaurants here in South Florida we also work with other farms and teach them how to grow mushrooms because there's a lot of people trying to enter into this field and it and the barrier entry is very high the knowledge is high the cost to entry is very very high if you don't know what you're doing and spend a lot of money and not get um you know the right results it's very difficult so we've been working with a lot of smaller farms and larger Farms that want to get into uh mushroom growing so we're teaching them and then we're also providing uh mushroom blocks for them so they could be successful because you know we've been doing this um I've been here since uh 2013 and I've been growing since 2014 here in lahache groves and just recently we've entered the agrotourism space to supplement income because farming is is difficult to make a a a living farming it really is I mean my wife and I work over 120 hours a week just for the last seven eight years and it's just we can't keep going at that pace so we're using uh agrotourism as a way uh to supplement income and educate public because we have so many people that want to learn especially in the mushroom field and everything else that we do which is medicinal crops specialty crops like turmeric medicinal mushrooms um you know we grow a lot of medicinal fruits and veg and stuff like that um so you know we've got we've done about five markets every weekend for the last eight nine years now so our most of our income comes from farmers markets and I don't know if you ever done a farmers market that's when you say are you doing the Farmers Market on your property or you our property you're going to yeah so I've been I've met uh Swank at one of the markets and you know he's also one of our neighbors he's not far they're not far from us and I also do their Farmers Market too so we're actually at their ones on Saturday uh which was very helpful during Co because the only one so we V people over there which was which was great that he was able to do that because you managed to eliminate all that red tape in regards to people wanting to buy food you know it's an essential product back then so um um sorry I lost my train of thought what was the question again so how um how many how many people uh sure come I do between eight and 18 people um and that's my maximum I can take is 18 people uh we've never not done one at 18 people it's more like 12 to 15 usually um and that's the kind of I don't want it I can't do it much bigger um I don't have I'm only five acres number one okay uh so I'm a I'm a smaller farm and my farm is pretty it's pretty like there's not much more to do much stuff in it's just all fields and hoop houses and you know we have uh Grow rooms like multiple mushroom grow rooms rooms um you know so it's it's a it's pretty compacted um so it's a it's a it's kind of a newer newer style farming where everything is kind of tighter so it's it's not like big Open Fields what you imagine a lot of other farms similar to Darren Darren's more H is hydro he's a little bit more hydroponic mine's more um yeah with mushrooms once again go back to um the the next town over uh from my high school was kenet Square ah very familiar with those guys yeah and so mush capital of the US yeah yes and the world back in my day um then the Japanese I think Chinese and Japanese to say about that well the yeah 50 years ago it was you know we were number one but anyway um and uh uh my uh once again recollection observation is that um there were uh the mushrooms were grown in manure in uh but uh that's those are those are button mushrooms you are correct those are buttons and portellas but we don't do not grow those we grow gmes and Gourmet are grown out of wood okay so we grow them out of oak wood and organic soy hulls that compress together into a almost like an a pellet like a fuel pellet and then we mix water with it and then we sauna steam them uh for about 24 hours to sterilize them and then we inoculate them with the different varieties of of mushroom spores depending on what variety we're growing we grow about nine to 10 varieties right now and we sell them to restaurants and you know we have our Gap we're one of the we're one of the only M mushrooms uh farms in Florida in South Florida anyway for sure um and we're Gap certified and certified organic so we have you know all the licensing to be able to sell to restaurants and to grocery stores and and we're I believe we're one of the the only ones in in Florida that Gap certified and so when you have the the 10 to 18 people um yes on on site um you've got a parking area for them yeah I mean it's it's 10 to 15 cars I mean it's really and they're not and they're probably not coming all exactly the same time for the glamping or are they no they usually come it's it's it's a it's a educational weekend so they come on Friday around 2 3:00 and they leave on Sunday right so so basically they're they're um they're getting they're pretty they have an itinerary so it's not like they're just posing around town they're they're not they're not leaving usually we're not going anywhere everything is there I'm bringing in speakers lecturers uh experts in in different fields to go over educational aspects of farming so so yeah it's a pretty it's a pretty intensive two three day educational class and then we're going to be doing um uh just mushroom related uh for people that want to get into the mushroom business that we could actually teach them from A to Z how to actually set up a mushroom farm without going completely bankrupt because it's it's it's it's costly so there's ways of doing it that are cost- effective and we've learned those techniques over the last 10 years on how to do that so do you have any of the queuing issues that not at all not at all not at all we're right off the road uh before North but we have a little turn in and soon as they come in they Park they don't even go back to their car until Sunday afternoon so no one even there no one even knows anything's happening and there's no music there's no M very if there's anyone music it's someone with a guitar playing acoustic there there's no banss there's nothing like that so I don't believe there's any offset impact whatsoever um [Music] yeah vanish you know if I may propose a little bit of a change in the discussions because I know people may be listening or other people are looking at us to come up with a policy I think starting now or maybe forward chairman and vice chair we kind of select the agenda topics and we kind of focus our time on that and I apologize I have to step out there was an animal emergency thankfully diverted but let me share a couple of thoughts here I think my position on this committee is not just representing me or my business I'm also thinking of other egg businesses in the town but more importantly I'm also for the residents I live here my family is here and the reason I came here because this is a quiet town and the last thing I think anybody wants on this committee and we will take some policy votes here just to set the agenda is that the last thing we want is to be a Vegas uh strip or a Del Beach on Friday we don't want somebody to hear our discussions and start buying properties and start making U form and I don't want to use their name in a negative way but I don't want us to be an event event place I don't want us to be a night hanging out place where people are buying our properties and doing night events and dancing and all kind of partying and and and as we just said my friend here um friend friends I would say depend on uh cooperation from other businesses for example I do a lot of yoga Meditation Retreat beats lot of events that require less noise and it's nothing to do with act tourism but I actually request my neighbors who are using tractors or who are using some sort of wood chopping or something else I tell them be quiet you know if you could During certain hours and they happily cooperate and sometime they tell me you know that you know lower your music because I do get Bings in fact I would say that um uh I get lot of uh events now where people are asking us to do music and dancing all night long or they will pay us more if we let them do midnight you know dancing and we don't do any of that I let go of that business intentionally because I don't want anybody else to do it for us my kids are sleeping my parents or my elders are visiting I don't want them to create any issue for their for them for my neighbors for others so the point I'm making here as a policy position is that uh from my point of position is that we want to be welcoming to the responsible act businesses who respect each other who respect their fellow residents secondly I want everybody to know including residents that we bring important sales tax revenue when we sell tickets we pay tax to the county and that tax part of that comes to the town so we generate it's not just supplementing our income but it's also bringing Revenue to the town and this whole definition of a where EG ends and where tourism begins is all muddy so for example I'm I'm an equestrian too and sometime we have those people who board horses they will come and say hey can I bring my family and friends and while we are with our horse can we spend day at the farm you know enjoying put some music and that happens very frequently when you board horses when you you know you become friends with the people who own horses and you do events for them so is that to tourism absolutely when you have people coming to see horses when you're showing or you know many people come during to use your facility that is also people coming to your farm it's no different than people walking into a nursery or people buying into an Egg Shop to buy stuff so I think uh I am saying is that we need to be tolerating tolerating people coming in because as a you know people should understand they bought into a rural town we are a rural town so this is not a situation in a city where everybody quiets down or there's no traffic or HOA you are going to have traffic you know for example a few months ago um I had about 100 bikers from Miami came over bikes and when they all entered our facility they all you know put their motorbike on the full boom and you can imagine 100 bikes you know on the Full Throttle that created a little bit of a a situation and my neighbors you know I wouldn't name anybody but people came and they said hey this was something that we want to be careful and I took their feedback and I made sure that this doesn't happen or if I it happens I let them know that there is something uh that we are expecting so I think giving residents some information ahead of time is important I want us to be responsible citizen no regulation means regulation I of the belief that if we don't put some parameters around us then we are no different than a commercial business or any other business in the town so then people have a free reign to file complaints and you know lot of vague assumptions on our business so I want us to send a clear message that this business will involve people coming in this business will involve people coming in the cars people coming on the bikes this business will involve noise because by Nature you have people coming in but but we are responsible as if we are responsible when we use a tractor big tractor creating 55 dbel sound it's no different than that we don't you know have retractors at Full Throttle after 9:00 p.m. and so we are not going to have people yelling at the top of their lungs at at or band or something uh after n so these are some of the guiding principles for me I uh which I don't support is um affecting our neighbors because I know when we say impact significant impact we are talking about people who are not in this room and that involves our residents and I would encourage them to come and share with us any feedback they have uh in a constructive fashion so we can hear it openheartedly although we are biased towards protecting our business but we want it to be a responsible industry so please come come over here and share your feedback I also would like our the town management to give us a report of the past 12 or 24 months a summary without naming names what are the top complaints have come in without naming any business without naming any identity just a big picture what kind of issues you are seeing so we can consider that I I am I am I support some responsibilities around noise light parking but as I said the nature of our business depends on people coming in so that's a fact that we have to accept um but we want to protect our neighbors as if you know we protect each other for example Swank is few blocks from us and if they put too much of a sound I put too much of my band at 60 dcel you will be affected right or somebody next door two businesses next to each other trying to Up the Volume so we we we would like to coordinate any such things we want to be uh very considerate of the quiet and natural town we have been blessed with so we want to protect it lot of people come to our farm to watch stars to watch the night sky to enjoy the quiet nature to listen to the birds and to the animals they don't want music so or any noise any but we tell them this is a farm and people around us are doing farming business and then that's how we explain it so with that my last statement is as a chair and a vice chair let's think of some topics uh that we want to hone in and uh rather than going into individual businesses Jeff I would like to look at the macro environment but I give you some information about my business uh I can hold 300 people or more 10 acre ranch um uh I have done events where we have 200 people plus but nobody has complained touch word so far so I guess we are doing something right uh we do parking we we make sure people get instructions we give them time slots we open multiple sites um we tell our neighbors in advance all those sort of things so I don't I don't support any regulation that will restrict how many people will come in uh how many cars will come in I don't support I agree with my fellow um businesses here that our businesses you know people want to go to a Farm Market on a Sunday morning what is he going to say don't come at you know from 9: to 12: he cannot control those things and people need to support it because if we are not bringing sales tax revenue then everybody will be paying more taxes so we have to work together with the residents and I would welcome their input to uh to plan it better but I I wouldn't support any anything that restricts people coming in parking Etc as as as long as we are responsibly managing it I do support uh the event people like us having our own security our own parking our own staff so people are not spilling over the road that I do support that's a risk to 911 services emergency for fire anything that puts anybody's safety at risk I fully agree we cannot health and safety is Paramount so other than that uh we should we should self-manage but follow best practices around those things over to you if I could on your on your larger events um did you experience much of a queuing problem not at all no queuing problem because we are blessed with a lot of flat land lot of cleared land being an equestrian we have pads so we boo our animals in one area open those paddocks and let people Park and we have people who direct parking or park for them and you've got a long driveway long driveway parking open spaces and we also kind of if we have that kind of a big event we tell people divided into group a b c come 15 30 minutes before event 15 minutes before event you know give them time slots these kind of things but uh you know things happen sometime when 100 bikers came you know bikes are going to come in a two bikes at a time it took time but they were not a threat the road was clear enough for other vehicles I'm just picturing the 100 bikers uh yeah and they were Woman by the way all women and they all wanted and they all wanted the goat yoga yeah that's true so Jeff it looks like I mean obviously seems like the discussion right now is turn towards the traffic issue and so forth now it looks like there's probably six or seven I guess offsite impacts that we're going to be discussing in more detail right I mean looking at you we obviously traffic's one we're looking at parking lighting noise odors so it'll be drilling down in each of those I would think right with future meetings I guess yeah um yeah I think so but what I'm what I'm hearing what I'm hearing on the like on the lighting um I don't it was pretty simp I don't think I have an I don't think well we don't have an issue with lighting us yeah and and as as you know Jee you know lighting yeah uh onsite versus lighting offsite are two different things and on these large properties um I don't I don't know that there's a lot of spill off of the the properties right now and plus what I'm also hearing is that all it seems like the events for the most part are uh ending before midnight or so yeah um I mean we don't have parking light on our parking area I'm not sure about everybody else but we don't I think we I think as businesses we actually want Believe It or Not other than the event we want less lighting because you know lighting affects animals nature Etc so for example I had situations where neighbors or other people said that you know if they they wanted to sleep and they don't want too much lighting they want to enjoy the night sky and as I said our business depends on people enjoying the night sky I think all B all of us follow the guidelines of the town to be responsible for our animals and nature and night creatures and so forth so the question is if you're having an event you are going to have pretty good lighting for safety reasons if there are there is a vedding happening and there are 200 people parked cars you are going to have lighting just enough not disturbing anybody so that there is not a safety issue uh of any kind people don't trip people know where to go but as we all follow the you know guidelines given by the zoning how high high the light should be and what time will it be switched off and so forth so I think the biggest issue was making sure the lighting doesn't spill off into the roads and blind people as they're driving by I think that was one that was pretty self-explanatory I mean yeah I mean that's that's typically that's typically the St the standard that you you're worried about is um not just onto the roads but also into your neighbor houses and those kind of things and whether there's adequate buffering um and then you will see also the the effect like think of think of stadiums or ball fields um where uh you do have that might not be spilling off onto other properties but all of a sudden you see this this lighted area out in the like middle of nowhere um and uh uh that can be uh an issue um but that's usually usually in situations where you have um higher placed lights you know um you know like if if you go uh if you go by any um kids ball fields you know where you've got like 12 you know 12 ball fields and they've got the night games going on um you can see those yeah it's glowing from a long time but but it's not glaring off necessarily it's allowing up and around but it but it's very apparent but that's not those like coule 100t tall and there's probably 100,000 buls around them things that's a lot of li no I know and it and what I'm hearing is and then I'm not sure that that is an issue but so um when I'm when I look at it um just once again before I came in and before you know in listening to to you um there are there are some traffic impacts um and a lot of the part uh and there is parking that is an internal circulation that is a solution to the the traffic impacts that are out there um is is what I'm hearing and I know with the ridge for example that that would seem to be traffic circulation would be the the issue I would suspect um you know I could add to that some like receiving your guest on your property somewhat deep in like you know at the at the back end of your parking seems to work better right because then you get the queers on your on your road and it gets them off the main road and then hopefully you can service those folks before the next PE so the queue doesn't actually overflow into the road and typically it seems like that's working well for us too yeah um and um so I mean I think it just it takes it down to a minimum situation I guess is what I'm saying yeah so and Jeff one one come on I B too obviously with these gentlemen's comments with their businesses and so forth you know always when you you're developing regulations you're developing regulations right or all for the people that are maybe not going to do it right it's true absolutely clearly that's what we're trying to right I guess come up with and this round time one of the comments I was going to make I think mentioned before at the introduction but I'm a big believer in not Reinventing the wheel we don't have to and I'd love to see where other communities such as Wellington which you're very familiar with obviously going across the street but with um there AG tourism regulation what they've potentially done and possibly look at other communities and not done after this arage County somewhere else in the State of Florida but see what other communities have done what they they done right maybe what they've done wrong that way we don't have to start from scratch and trying to see what that best approach is and it sort of goes along the lines of what Minish was saying as far as getting a list of the different complaints that possibly staff has you know um obtained over the past couple of years with different operations and address those but I would like to see possibly what some other communities have done to date and so we don't have to startch okay um that sounds like a I don't know if we're getting ready to break off but let's talk about um future meeting dates um and uh talk about um uh those agenda kind of uh issues that you would like to to do what what's proposed is the fourth Monday of the um of the month your your committee is sunsetted at the end of the the year so we're not it's not intended to go on and on um uh what I've got is um proposed for September 23rd October 28th um I won't be at October 28th one unfortunately I'll be out of the country but I'll be to I'll be at all the others okay and and I know November 25th and December 23rd are close to a couple of of holidays um but uh they are um far enough away that the the the village offices will be um open and I'm not you know we may be able to wrap things up uh be before that uh um I want you all to take a a good review of the the previous report um and uh What uh I hear um us wanting to look at is let's take a look at other AGR tourism um regulations Let's uh we'll get you a list of um the significant complaints that we've had once again um focused on a AGR tourism uh complaints because I don't think uh um agrotourism is the major source of our code enforcement complaints but uh taking a taking a look at at that that um and with that in in mind um see if there are any significant issues that have Arisen aside from those traffic sort of circulation issues you know um and uh and take a look at the the regulations that we have in place already for the entirety of the of the town with respect to to the noise and the and the lighting um and see if uh there are any things that need to be there and then [Music] um I almost think the signage issue should be like at a a separate meeting after let's let's hit that and then uh the signage questions as a as a as a third meeting if that makes sense to you all yeah there was a there was a temporary signage last time we went through it I thought there is there a temporary signage code or something right about that there are temporary signs that are allowed under the code but they they typically have to do with either special event signage or it was um or new uh you know new business kind of of things um we are beginning the process of with the ulc of looking at the the sign code um and rewriting our sign code um [Music] so by that that's why I'm thinking in that in that third meeting we might have some more meet on those regulations and you be able to weigh in on something rather than trying to be creative okay we discussed this last meeting also with Darren you know we we went over that and I believe the committee was talking about possibly a sign specifically designed for AGR tourism so for instance like Darren he has a farmer's markets every weekend so you're you're allowed to put your sign out like x amount of days before and after your event but if he's doing an event every Saturday then that sign why would it have to he wouldn't have to remove it because you know every every seven days he's got that market so so we were trying to come up with a with a you know something that would work for everyone that has AG tourism on a regular basis that doesn't you know what I mean you don't need a special permit for the for the sign every single time he does a market right right now in general uh the town doesn't let allow off premise signs and by definition the that kind of signage that you're talking about is going to be off premise and the town doesn't have a lot of right away space um where signage is a is a kind of natural thing you know and once again different Community but you know in in Wellington during the the season uh Wellington has the uh they have much wider rights of we they've got lighting they can put up you know those um essentially off premise signs or you know letting people know that event special events are are going on even though it's um something that the town actually puts up you know um and we've gota we've got to think about how that would work and uh I think we were talking more directional signage promotional signage but directional to keep folks from getting off track to their destination which created turnarounds and this type which created more bottleneck and more problems and I think everybody was agreeing with that approach what I understand yeah which would make more sense I don't know no it's it's uh once again it's looking at the the place next door they have they have some of those you know directional type things but one they also have the issue of where do we put them in how much room and all those kind of things well I mean you guys have all the canals or I mean you guys are in control of the canal Banks correct so then why couldn't they be utilized for that I think that's I'm not saying that they can I'm just saying it's a little you know sure it's it's not like some areas where you know you sure got the yeah we've got less to work with there's no there's no there's no things already there's no height already there to attach um something to um and you know then you get into okay uh a lot of the how much room do we really have on the road side of the canal versus the other side and those kind of things and uh and but I I understand the the concept talk about that and then there is just the the idea of perhaps being able at some Corners to to utilize off premise signs I don't know whether or not that would fly or not I don't know anybody that whether it would be interested to for for folks but and we'll have to be careful because you get into opening up the off- premise sign codes you got other commercial businesses that are going to want to be part of that so you have to impact and that's all you know that's what we got to figure out so can I propose uh that next meeting we focus on parking and noise as a policy sort of a thing framework is that would that be parking and traffic together parking traffic traffic parking and Noise Okay fine I have no problem that yeah is that okay with you sure right and and also we'll uh we'll try to get some other AGR tourism regulations see what see what other folks are are doing and could you also and also the uh code the PRI code issues that we have uh had to address in the last4 can I also request that whatever portions of existing zoning whatever safety rules you have with ulc I'm sure it's not just us but if a commercial business or anybody else what are the existing rules in the absence of act tourism what applies to us can we see in the in the report there are uh Provisions for some of those things okay so should we refer to that those can take a look at those as a starting point and I'll try to get it more focused um with respect to the the parking and and traffic all right all right right anything else I think that's it else that's it okay motion to adjourn toj the evening yes yesk second appreciate your time effort and who made the motion who made the motion he made second you made the motion I second okay okay you made it I got you I got motion to adjourn doesn't need a second that's yeah just I ask you made it all right have a great night gentlemen than you guys thank you take contact her oh she actually called me during the meeting